From nobody Sun Nov 1 04:21:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0F11B7E65 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 04:21:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8S2C260N_Pvk for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 04:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bgl-iport-2.cisco.com (bgl-iport-2.cisco.com [72.163.197.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E7021B7E63 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 04:21:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=46861; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1446380479; x=1447590079; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=psSeT0Sk0eObtamEEAA36c92RWNT4NQdhB5IoIqHLdA=; b=JvNKSIzTCy3tz3EL9vLX3tGnmRG8xLxNTo+4ulmra8IGwMZJYuqTaUtK aC3O7QBWiWCIR7rj5GY/wsJJCFjK0t2NuzWuYF4Cg9sC0dWpRbUyKBOyC XermqBIKJpj/cdtEo50Ch3qqZ7w0KDnulJ70kq+DGGUrt04FhfbaWneCZ 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CvBABEAzZW/xjFo0hegm6BIG/BFgMXAQmFLkoCgWMBAQEBAQGBC4Q2AQEEAQEBIApBChELIRYBAQkCAgkDAgECARUwBgEMBgIBAYgsDbESkFsBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFgSGd4R+h3uBRQWOEIgzjSWJGZMhY4IRHYFlLzSFfgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.20,229,1444694400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="56188213" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-2.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Nov 2015 12:21:12 +0000 Received: from [10.70.235.184] ([10.70.235.184]) by bgl-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA1CLBBZ002918; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 12:21:11 GMT To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , "ibnemo@ietf.org" References: <561FF885.1020904@bwijnen.net> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <563603B6.9060800@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 21:21:10 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <561FF885.1020904@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030105060102070400080106" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] Configured service models X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 12:21:23 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030105060102070400080106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, IIRC, I said that there are two aspects that make such work proposal at risk at the IETF. 1. we go up in the layers (within the API world) with this work, outside of the comfort zone of the IETF. 2. the industry will not wait for 2 years to have standardized primitives, specifically for a domain specific set of primitives. This is why I mentioned that opensource is IMO is the best way for such a project. There are already several projects: NIC, Group Based Policy, NEMO, Congress. The market will tell us which one will impose itself in the end. And, if a RFC is needed then, ISE is there. Ex: ovsdb (RFC 7047). Regards, Benoit > During our bar-bof at IETF93, Benoit asked/stated: > > Configured service models are outside the scope of the IETF. > > We're not sure what Benoit meant here. > Benoit, can you elaborate? > > If others have views/opinions, pleas make them know to this list. > > Bert > > _______________________________________________ > Ibnemo mailing list > Ibnemo@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo > . > --------------030105060102070400080106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear all,

IIRC, I said that there are two aspects that make such work proposal at risk at the IETF.
1. we go up in the layers (within the API world) with this work, outside of the comfort zone of the IETF.
2. the industry will not wait for 2 years to have standardized primitives, specifically for a domain specific set of primitives.
This is why I mentioned that opensource is IMO is the best way for such a project. There are already several  projects: NIC, Group Based Policy, NEMO, Congress. The market will tell us which one will impose itself in the end. And, if a RFC is needed then, ISE is there. Ex: ovsdb (RFC 7047).

Regards, Benoit
During our bar-bof at IETF93, Benoit asked/stated:

Configured service models are outside the scope of the IETF.

We're not sure what Benoit meant here.
Benoit, can you elaborate?

If others have views/opinions, pleas make them know to this list.

Bert

_______________________________________________
Ibnemo mailing list
Ibnemo@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo
.


--------------030105060102070400080106-- From nobody Sun Nov 1 05:09:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162A81B8104 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 05:09:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L2ffZcFLo2ld for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 05:09:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net [194.109.24.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16A9D1B8103 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 05:09:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Macintosh.local ([153.215.99.197]) by smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net with ESMTP id cD951r00P4FXk6p01D9E34; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 14:09:19 +0100 To: Benoit Claise , "ibnemo@ietf.org" References: <561FF885.1020904@bwijnen.net> <563603B6.9060800@cisco.com> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <56360EF0.1080201@bwijnen.net> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 22:09:04 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <563603B6.9060800@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] Configured service models X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 13:09:23 -0000 Thanks Benoit. I know understand what you mean. Yet, I have heard various people (operators) tell us that they want/need to be able to do this as well. So I expect that implementation work will happen in ODL and at IETF Hackatons. So we'll see how well that goes, and if it does go well and we hear from operators that they want that capability standardized in an Intent Expresssion Language, I guess we can then talk again. I basically see the Open Source work and the work at the Hackatons as implementation work to test and figure out what we can and need to standardize on. Bert On 01/11/15 21:21, Benoit Claise wrote: > Dear all, > > IIRC, I said that there are two aspects that make such work proposal at risk at the IETF. > 1. we go up in the layers (within the API world) with this work, outside of the comfort zone of the IETF. > 2. the industry will not wait for 2 years to have standardized primitives, specifically for a domain specific set of primitives. > This is why I mentioned that opensource is IMO is the best way for such a project. There are already several projects: NIC, Group > Based Policy, NEMO, Congress. The market will tell us which one will impose itself in the end. And, if a RFC is needed then, ISE > is there. Ex: ovsdb (RFC 7047). > > Regards, Benoit >> During our bar-bof at IETF93, Benoit asked/stated: >> >> Configured service models are outside the scope of the IETF. >> >> We're not sure what Benoit meant here. >> Benoit, can you elaborate? >> >> If others have views/opinions, pleas make them know to this list. >> >> Bert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibnemo mailing list >> Ibnemo@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo >> . >> > From nobody Thu Nov 5 01:41:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 243481A9062 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 01:41:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jc6-rIpl_um6 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 01:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AD691A874F for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 01:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-28-192.meeting.ietf94.jp ([133.93.28.192]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id dlhV1r00K48hhDh01lhZYj; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:41:34 +0100 To: "ibnemo@ietf.org" From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <563B2449.6040802@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 18:41:29 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 09:41:39 -0000 During the IETF94 Hackaton, we got some discussion on how much detail we want to allow or need in the Intent Language when reusing definitions. For example, let us assume that you - define a router - define a firewall - define a loadbalancer - define a l2 switch - etc And that later on you want to define something like a DMZ and inside that DMZ you want to use the defined router, firewall, l2 switch, etc. The end-user/customer would want to just express his/her intent to have an internet connection with a DMZ I guess. The network administrator of the ISP (operator) needs to then express that the DMZ consists of let us say a router, a firewall, a l2switch etc. Do we want/need the network administrator to have to (or to be able to) specify the details on how these nodes get connected? Or would we rather see that the Intent Engine generates the proper connections? I suggest that those who have proto-type implementations express their approach and that network operators express their wants/needs for such a scenario. Bert From nobody Sun Nov 8 23:46:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36EC1B6EF8 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2015 23:46:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9b8L6-avvEj5 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2015 23:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DB821B6EF2 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 2015 23:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CAB96069; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 07:46:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 9 Nov 2015 07:46:18 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.203]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 9 Nov 2015 15:46:11 +0800 From: Zhoutianran To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , "ibnemo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions Thread-Index: AQHRF64yuRuATcKFWUqUwGcFIS41SZ6TT/jA Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 07:46:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <563B2449.6040802@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <563B2449.6040802@bwijnen.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090205.56404F4C.001A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.203, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: d7d058bc838e1da5f40d6ac9fa414caf Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 07:46:26 -0000 It's really useful to group a set of atomic components and provide the whol= e as a micro/template, just like the DMZ example. The hierarchy enables the= reusability. To describe a DMZ, I can see two ways. 1. One is to describe the exact connectivity among those atomic components.= I think the switch and router are what we want to eliminate. It seems too = detail with the intent concept. I hope they can be auto generated by the in= tent engine. 2. The other way I would prefer is to define DMZ as a layer 2 group, in whi= ch by default all the components are connected by a logic switch(which do n= ot need to explicitly describe again). Or we can define DMZ as a layer 3 gr= oup with a router. In this way, we can put any number of components in eas= ily with fully flexibility. That's my 2 cents. Best, Tianran > -----Original Message----- > From: Ibnemo [mailto:ibnemo-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bert Wijnen > (IETF) > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 5:41 PM > To: ibnemo@ietf.org > Subject: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions >=20 > During the IETF94 Hackaton, we got some discussion on how much detail we > want to allow or need in the Intent Language when reusing definitions. Fo= r > example, let us assume that you >=20 > - define a router > - define a firewall > - define a loadbalancer > - define a l2 switch > - etc >=20 > And that later on you want to define something like a DMZ and inside that > DMZ you want to use the defined router, firewall, l2 switch, etc. >=20 > The end-user/customer would want to just express his/her intent to have > an internet connection with a DMZ I guess. >=20 > The network administrator of the ISP (operator) needs to then express tha= t > the DMZ consists of let us say a router, a firewall, a l2switch etc. > Do we want/need the network administrator to have to (or to be able to) > specify the details on how these nodes get connected? Or would we rather > see that the Intent Engine generates the proper connections? >=20 > I suggest that those who have proto-type implementations express their > approach and that network operators express their wants/needs for such a > scenario. >=20 > Bert >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ibnemo mailing list > Ibnemo@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo From nobody Mon Nov 9 22:49:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE321B33B9 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2015 22:49:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m5WPW8ihTmue for ; 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IGRhIGxlZ2lzbGHDp8OjbyB2aWdlbnRlLiBTZSByZWNlYmV1IGVzdGEgbWVuc2FnZW0gcG9yIGVy cm8sIHJvZ2Ftb3MtbGhlIHF1ZSBub3MgbyBjb211bmlxdWUgaW1lZGlhdGFtZW50ZSBwb3IgZXN0 YSBtZXNtYSB2aWEgZSBwcm9jZWRhIGEgc3VhIGRlc3RydWnDp8Ojbw0K From nobody Thu Nov 12 23:48:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA071B41C3 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 23:48:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bHCM1_r7BwGs for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 23:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAE111B41C1 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 23:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CAG81776; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:48:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEML428-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.183) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:48:18 +0000 Received: from SZXEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.219]) by szxeml428-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.183]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 15:48:05 +0800 From: "zhangyali (D)" To: PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , "ibnemo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions Thread-Index: AQHRF64y5xGlf990SUG23+lmjXj8XJ6Sz+6AgAGCXQCABUa14A== Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:48:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <563B2449.6040802@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.104.182] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.564595C4.005B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.219, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 86631a1ceb82f9b24835fe90e5488768 Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSG93IHRvIGdyb3VwL3JldXNlIGRlZmlu?= =?utf-8?q?itions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: telefonica.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Nov 2015 08:12:17.5329 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9744600e-3e04-492e-baa1-25ec245c6f10 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR06MB0637 X-OriginatorOrg: telefonica.com X-TM-AS-MML: No Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSG93IHRvIGdyb3VwL3JldXNlIGRlZmlu?= =?utf-8?q?itions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725AE1A88EF for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:02:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zKetgiKWA2sP for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C6F01A88DF for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CAG97200; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:02:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEML425-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.180) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:01:13 +0000 Received: from SZXEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.219]) by szxeml425-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.180]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 17:59:43 +0800 From: "zhangyali (D)" To: PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , "ibnemo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbSWJuZW1vXSBIb3cgdG8gZ3JvdXAvcmV1c2UgZGVmaW5pdGlv?= =?utf-8?Q?ns?= Thread-Index: AQHRHesCu+p3pV5phkGNIY9yJr4TXp6ZsO5Q Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:59:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <49093102-DFC6-401D-8E83-5B8D8104E274@telefonica.com> In-Reply-To: <49093102-DFC6-401D-8E83-5B8D8104E274@telefonica.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.104.182] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A747A0713F56294D8FBE33E5C6B8F58135E5F1C2szxeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.5645B521.0073, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.219, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: d11ebc3e4a7800843949d5a15c2e2092 Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICBIb3cgdG8gZ3JvdXAvcmV1?= =?utf-8?q?se_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1F97B419907B4B0C8FC76B60695DC70Dtelefonicacom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Nov 2015 11:30:43.3742 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9744600e-3e04-492e-baa1-25ec245c6f10 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR06MB0639 X-OriginatorOrg: telefonica.com X-TM-AS-MML: No Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiAgSG93IHRvIGdyb3VwL3Jl?= =?utf-8?q?use_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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=?utf-8?Q?definitions?= Thread-Index: AQHRHga7XHbfC4evqkOoXnalk1jFsZ6eZj/g Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:11:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1F97B419-907B-4B0C-8FC7-6B60695DC70D@telefonica.com> In-Reply-To: <1F97B419-907B-4B0C-8FC7-6B60695DC70D@telefonica.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.104.182] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A747A0713F56294D8FBE33E5C6B8F58135E7009Eszxeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.5649ABE2.00C8, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.211, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 890ebe34f240d1535c2c6f0754a49233 Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBIb3cgdG8g?= =?utf-8?q?group/reuse_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P861VIlgzjoP for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net [194.109.24.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A22E81B2A86 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192-168-0-74.rdsnet.ro ([86.126.92.130]) by smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net with ESMTP id ix7H1r00T2olTiE01x7LH0; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:07:22 +0100 To: "zhangyali (D)" , PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "ibnemo@ietf.org" References: <563B2449.6040802@bwijnen.net> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <564C3FC4.80500@bwijnen.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:07:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSG93IHRvIGdyb3VwL3JldXNlIGRlZmlu?= =?utf-8?q?itions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:07:26 -0000 On 13/11/15 09:48, zhangyali (D) wrote: > NodeModel DMZ(x,y,z,I,j): > Node n1 Type fw Property x; > Node n2 Type nat Property y; > Node n3 Type host Property z; > Connection c1 Type p2p Endnodes n1,n2 Property I; > Connection c2 Type p2p Endnodes n2,n3 Property j; > > With this expression, we create a new node type named DMZ, and its properties can be adjusted according to users' requirement. It can be called whenever you want to create a DMZ node, just like a function in C. For example: > > CREATE Node dmz1 Type DMZ(property(dmz1-n1), property(dmz1-n2), property(dmz1-n3), property(dmz1-c1), property(dmz1-c2)); > CREATE Node dmz2 Type DMZ(property(dmz2-n1), property(dmz2-n2), property(dmz2-n3), property(dmz2-c1), property(dmz2-c2)); > ... Mmmm... do I have to read this literally? "property(dmz1-c1)" means what? Just that you want to use Connection c1 as defined in the NodeModel?? When I read the Nodemodel, I was expecting you would specify I for the property of connection c1. Am I misunderstanding here? Bert From nobody Wed Nov 18 01:12:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA7A1B2AA9 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:12:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z5k6aQ2hYSVq for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net [194.109.24.25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1F201B2AA8 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:12:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192-168-0-74.rdsnet.ro ([86.126.92.130]) by smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net with ESMTP id ixCf1r0082olTiE01xCiWb; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:12:42 +0100 To: Zhoutianran , "ibnemo@ietf.org" References: <563B2449.6040802@bwijnen.net> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <564C4106.7000305@bwijnen.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:12:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:12:47 -0000 Inline On 09/11/15 09:46, Zhoutianran wrote: > It's really useful to group a set of atomic components and provide the whole as a micro/template, just like the DMZ example. The hierarchy enables the reusability. > To describe a DMZ, I can see two ways. > 1. One is to describe the exact connectivity among those atomic components. I think the switch and router are what we want to eliminate. It seems too detail with the intent concept. I hope they can be auto generated by the intent engine. So, does this mean that a DMZ node will ALWAYS have the same set of components, predefined by the NEMO engine? If so, that seems to make the NEMO engine less complex. But it puts limits on the flexibility for the user of the NEMO language, does it not? > 2. The other way I would prefer is to define DMZ as a layer 2 group, in which by default all the components are connected by a logic switch(which do not need to explicitly describe again). Or we can define DMZ as a layer 3 group with a router. In this way, we can put any number of components in easily with fully flexibility. So how would the user define which and how many components get put in? Or will it be a predefined set by the NEMO Engine? Another question that comes up in my mind: Will this always be a logical/virtual network? How/when is the translation made to a physical network, or is that not needed? Maybe I am just showing a not-so-good-understanding of the NEMO concepts yet. But then I would appreciate to be eductaed some more. Bert > > That's my 2 cents. > > Best, > Tianran > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ibnemo [mailto:ibnemo-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bert Wijnen >> (IETF) >> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 5:41 PM >> To: ibnemo@ietf.org >> Subject: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions >> >> During the IETF94 Hackaton, we got some discussion on how much detail we >> want to allow or need in the Intent Language when reusing definitions. For >> example, let us assume that you >> >> - define a router >> - define a firewall >> - define a loadbalancer >> - define a l2 switch >> - etc >> >> And that later on you want to define something like a DMZ and inside that >> DMZ you want to use the defined router, firewall, l2 switch, etc. >> >> The end-user/customer would want to just express his/her intent to have >> an internet connection with a DMZ I guess. >> >> The network administrator of the ISP (operator) needs to then express that >> the DMZ consists of let us say a router, a firewall, a l2switch etc. >> Do we want/need the network administrator to have to (or to be able to) >> specify the details on how these nodes get connected? Or would we rather >> see that the Intent Engine generates the proper connections? >> >> I suggest that those who have proto-type implementations express their >> approach and that network operators express their wants/needs for such a >> scenario. >> >> Bert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ibnemo mailing list >> Ibnemo@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo From nobody Wed Nov 18 01:23:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F9071B2AF2 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:23:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GsWnr6JtHEso for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net [194.109.24.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A2441B2AED for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192-168-0-74.rdsnet.ro ([86.126.92.130]) by smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net with ESMTP id ixPX1r00C2olTiE01xPakj; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:23:36 +0100 To: "zhangyali (D)" , PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "ibnemo@ietf.org" References: <1F97B419-907B-4B0C-8FC7-6B60695DC70D@telefonica.com> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <564C4393.2030404@bwijnen.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:23:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTogIEhvdyB0byBn?= =?utf-8?q?roup/reuse_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:23:41 -0000 For me to better understand and form an opinion on the discussion, I would appreciate a few clear definitions for: connection Is it that there is a physical or logical connection between 2 nodes? Is it only one of these, or can it be bother connectivity Is it direct connectivity or possibly via some other nodes/subnetwork Or a logical connectivity? I have hear people say that "connection" means that connectivity is allowed. Not necessarily that there is a phyisical or logical connection between 2 nodes/subnets So if we have node n1 node n2 node n3 and we have connect n1 to n2 connect n2 to n3 then in my understanding n1 is physically/logically connected to n2 and n2 is physically/logically connected to n3 but in my view,n1 would be able to communicate with n3 But I have also heard that in order to do that, one would have to connect n1 to n3 And that would not necessarily mean that a physical/logical connection between n1 and n3 would be created, but just that it would allow n1 to communicate with n3 (routed via n2 of course). I think it would be good to write down the exact definitions of what thinks like "Connection", "connect", "connectivity", etc mean I think that can help teh discussion (at least for me, and possibly for some other who are not involved in implementations). Thanks, Bert On 16/11/15 12:11, zhangyali (D) wrote: > > Thanks Pedro. I think our understanding for “connection” and “connect/connectivity” is different. This topic has been discussed in > our team many times. It’s really helpful for us to listen your views. > > First of all, I want to clarify the meaning of connection. It refers to a kind of resources to allow the communication. It’s not > a physical link, but a abstraction of objects depended on communication. For example, a tunnel can be seen as a connection. For > each of connection, user could assign bandwidth on it or not. > > In your expression, “connect” refers to “connectivity” which specifies the communication rules or logic connection rather than > resources depended on. (Please point it out if my understanding is wrong.) > > In fact, we have considered if we need a new keyword to express connectivity, but there are some questions we need further > consideration. > > 1.If connection does not have bandwidth parameter, do the connection and connectivity have the same meaning? > > 2.If the keyword of connectivity exists, when use the connectivity and when use connection? > > 3.If user have to express connection before expressing connectivity? If not, do users know there are resources supporting for the > connectivity? > > Looking forward to your opinions. > > Yali > > *发件人:*PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ [mailto:pedroa.aranda@telefonica.com] > *发送时间:*2015年11月13日19:31 > *收件人:*zhangyali (D); Zhoutianran; Bert Wijnen (IETF); ibnemo@ietf.org > *主题:*Re: 答复: 答复: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions > > Comments inline > > *De: *"zhangyali (D)" > > *Fecha: *viernes, 13 de noviembre de 2015, 10:59 > *Para: *paag >, Zhoutianran >, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" >, "ibnemo@ietf.org > " > > *Asunto: *答复: 答复: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions > > _[Yali] Our expressions of new DMZ are similar, except you omit parameter lists. And firewall and l2-group(L2Switch in your > expression, I think) are predefined node types, so I omit them._ > > _ A key point/difference is how to express the connection/connectivity between the two nodes. I think resource is a > essential element to allow the communication between nodes no matter where it is, that is, if there is not "real" connection > between nodes, they will not be connected._ > > Sorry, but I would distinguish a ‘logical patch panel’implemented in an Open VirtualSwitch inside a server blade or even inside a > data centre supporting SDN, NFV, etc. from a real link (i..e. my second example). Why? Because these connections have no specific > characteristics, while a "connection over a cable”has characteristics like Bandwidth etc. > > _ And what if user wants to assign a bandwidth in this connection? So I am not sure if the "Connect" includes enough > information._ > > The Connect is used when I have no specific requirements. In an example related more to ETSI/NFV, I could see the Connect as the > logical connection between Virtual Network Function Components (VNFCs) inside a VNF. > > My .02 cents, /PA > > --- > > Dr. Pedro A. Aranda Gutiérrez > > Technology Exploration - > > Network Innovation & Virtualisation > > email: pedroa d0t aranda At telefonica d0t com > > Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo > > C/ Zurbarán,12 > > 28010 Madrid, Spain > > Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden. > > Fragen sind da, um gestellt zu werden. > > Georg Kreisler > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y > es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la > lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. 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Se recebeu esta > mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição > From nobody Wed Nov 18 18:01:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD6E1B3B39 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:01:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GVwcsrhu-Egh for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EC441B3B35 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CEH70877; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 02:01:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 02:01:25 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.83]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 10:01:15 +0800 From: Xiayinben To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , "zhangyali (D)" , PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "ibnemo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0libmVtb10g562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTogIEhvdyB0byBncm91?= =?utf-8?Q?p/reuse_definitions?= Thread-Index: AQHRIeLWe+cWPwyAd0qC4uGGAd6C356hg8qQ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 02:01:14 +0000 Message-ID: <5FD31D8EDBF4EC468B36D86F04FDB2E8781628EF@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <1F97B419-907B-4B0C-8FC7-6B60695DC70D@telefonica.com> <564C4393.2030404@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <564C4393.2030404@bwijnen.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.53.87] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.564D2D78.0020, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.6.83, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 47809e7b2a767f14ff6c73e2062c340d Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTog?= =?utf-8?q?_How_to_group/reuse_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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aWxpemHDp8OjbywgZGl2dWxnYcOnw6NvIGUvb3UgY8OzcGlhIHNlbSBhdXRvcml6YcOnw6NvIHBv ZGUgZXN0YXIgcHJvaWJpZGEgDQo+IGVtIHZpcnR1ZGUgZGEgbGVnaXNsYcOnw6NvIHZpZ2VudGUu IFNlIHJlY2ViZXUgZXN0YSBtZW5zYWdlbSBwb3IgZXJybywgDQo+IHJvZ2Ftb3MtbGhlIHF1ZSBu b3MgbyBjb211bmlxdWUgaW1lZGlhdGFtZW50ZSBwb3IgZXN0YSBtZXNtYSB2aWEgZSANCj4gcHJv Y2VkYSBhIHN1YSBkZXN0cnVpw6fDo28NCj4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCklibmVtbyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCklibmVtb0BpZXRmLm9y Zw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pYm5lbW8NCg== From nobody Thu Nov 19 00:32:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5C01ACD16 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 00:30:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M9nZpXy-3cQP for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 00:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net [194.109.24.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFF611ACD11 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 00:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192-168-0-80.rdsnet.ro ([86.126.92.130]) by smtp-cloud2.xs4all.net with ESMTP id jLWZ1r00K2olTiE01LWdSQ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:30:37 +0100 To: Xiayinben , "zhangyali (D)" , PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "ibnemo@ietf.org" References: <1F97B419-907B-4B0C-8FC7-6B60695DC70D@telefonica.com> <564C4393.2030404@bwijnen.net> <5FD31D8EDBF4EC468B36D86F04FDB2E8781628EF@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <564D88A8.9080002@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 10:30:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5FD31D8EDBF4EC468B36D86F04FDB2E8781628EF@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTog?= =?utf-8?q?How_to_group/reuse_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:30:47 -0000 Thanks and inline On 19/11/15 04:01, Xiayinben wrote: > Hi Bert, > > Thanks for initiating this topic, it is really interesting and important. > I think the key point of this topic is about the meaning of two word's and usage method: > "connection" and "connectivity" > > In my understanding > "connection" stands for connected resource(physical or virtual), it is a real object. "connectivity" stands for reachability, it is a kind of status or policy. > "connection" can implicitly expresses the existing of two points "connectivity". When user doesn't point out bandwidth of connection clearly, user uses connection as connectivity. > > In your example, > Node n1,n2,n3 > Connection n1,n2 > Connection n2,n3 > Is there a "connectivity" between n1 and n3? > I think it depends on whether n2 can do transfer traffic for the other nodes, which is node's transfer property. > So the "connectivity" is decided by "connection" and middle node's transfer property. > But it also raises a problem that the "connectivity" is not intuitive. My view is that if we have two concepts (connection and connectivity), that it would be best to use 2 commands/keywords for that and not just one. It indeed means that we have one extra command in the language, but it does make things clearer and (in my view) easier to express correctly. > Therefore, we also discussed should we separate "connection" and "connectivity" as two keyword in NEMO language. > But this letting the intent description becomes long-winded. > For example, a enterprise have tens branches, which need connect to headquarter and communication with each other. > If we express connectivity by connection and node's transfer property, user only need to describe tens connections between headquarter and branches. > If we separate connection and connectivity, user also need to describe hundreds full mesh connectivity between branches. In normal internet setups, I would think that if n1 is IP connected to n2 and n2 is IP conencted to n3, then they all 3 have connectivity. So In my view, there would be no need to state that n1 and n3 have connectivity. That is (in my view) inherent to IP networks. So I would say that the default is that there is connectivity, and if you want to dis-allow connectivity for some nodes, then I would suggest that we must users to specify that. I would think it is rare that that is needed. But I am used to OPEN systems, so maybe I am biased. > > So far, we don't separate the connection and connectivity. > Look forwarding to your opinions. I would certainly sepate it, because in my understanding they are quite different concepts. Using just one command to express both most probably causes confusion as to what exactly the user intended. Bert > Best regards, > Yinben > > -----邮件原件----- > 发件人: Ibnemo [mailto:ibnemo-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Bert Wijnen (IETF) > 发送时间: 2015年11月18日 17:24 > 收件人: zhangyali (D); PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ; Zhoutianran; ibnemo@ietf.org > 主题: Re: [Ibnemo] 答复: 答复: 答复: How to group/reuse definitions > > For me to better understand and form an opinion on the discussion, I would appreciate a few clear definitions for: > > connection > Is it that there is a physical or logical connection between 2 nodes? > Is it only one of these, or can it be bother connectivity > Is it direct connectivity or possibly via some other nodes/subnetwork > Or a logical connectivity? > > I have hear people say that "connection" means that connectivity is allowed. > Not necessarily that there is a phyisical or logical connection between 2 nodes/subnets So if we have > node n1 > node n2 > node n3 > > and we have > connect n1 to n2 > connect n2 to n3 > > then in my understanding n1 is physically/logically connected to n2 and n2 is physically/logically connected to n3 > > but in my view,n1 would be able to communicate with n3 But I have also heard that in order to do that, one would have to > connect n1 to n3 > And that would not necessarily mean that a physical/logical connection between n1 and n3 would be created, but just that it would allow n1 to communicate with n3 (routed via n2 of course). > > I think it would be good to write down the exact definitions of what thinks like "Connection", "connect", "connectivity", etc mean > > I think that can help teh discussion (at least for me, and possibly for some other who are not involved in implementations). > > Thanks, > Bert > > > > > On 16/11/15 12:11, zhangyali (D) wrote: >> Thanks Pedro. I think our understanding for “connection” and >> “connect/connectivity” is different. This topic has been discussed in our team many times. It’s really helpful for us to listen your views. >> >> First of all, I want to clarify the meaning of connection. It refers >> to a kind of resources to allow the communication. It’s not a >> physical link, but a abstraction of objects depended on communication. For example, a tunnel can be seen as a connection. For each of connection, user could assign bandwidth on it or not. >> >> In your expression, “connect” refers to “connectivity” which specifies >> the communication rules or logic connection rather than resources >> depended on. (Please point it out if my understanding is wrong.) >> >> In fact, we have considered if we need a new keyword to express >> connectivity, but there are some questions we need further consideration. >> >> 1.If connection does not have bandwidth parameter, do the connection and connectivity have the same meaning? >> >> 2.If the keyword of connectivity exists, when use the connectivity and when use connection? >> >> 3.If user have to express connection before expressing connectivity? >> If not, do users know there are resources supporting for the connectivity? >> >> Looking forward to your opinions. >> >> Yali >> >> *发件人:*PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ >> [mailto:pedroa.aranda@telefonica.com] >> *发送时间:*2015年11月13日19:31 >> *收件人:*zhangyali (D); Zhoutianran; Bert Wijnen (IETF); ibnemo@ietf.org >> *主题:*Re: 答复: 答复: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions >> >> Comments inline >> >> *De: *"zhangyali (D)" > > >> *Fecha: *viernes, 13 de noviembre de 2015, 10:59 >> *Para: *paag > >, Zhoutianran >> >, "Bert Wijnen >> (IETF)" >, >> "ibnemo@ietf.org " > > >> *Asunto: *答复: 答复: [Ibnemo] How to group/reuse definitions >> >> _[Yali] Our expressions of new DMZ are similar, except you omit parameter lists. And firewall and l2-group(L2Switch in your >> expression, I think) are predefined node types, so I omit them._ >> >> _ A key point/difference is how to express the connection/connectivity between the two nodes. I think resource is a >> essential element to allow the communication between nodes no matter where it is, that is, if there is not "real" connection >> between nodes, they will not be connected._ >> >> Sorry, but I would distinguish a ‘logical patch panel’implemented in >> an Open VirtualSwitch inside a server blade or even inside a data >> centre supporting SDN, NFV, etc. from a real link (i..e. my second example). Why? Because these connections have no specific characteristics, while a "connection over a cable”has characteristics like Bandwidth etc. >> >> _ And what if user wants to assign a bandwidth in this connection? So I am not sure if the "Connect" includes enough >> information._ >> >> The Connect is used when I have no specific requirements. In an >> example related more to ETSI/NFV, I could see the Connect as the logical connection between Virtual Network Function Components (VNFCs) inside a VNF. >> >> My .02 cents, /PA >> >> --- >> >> Dr. Pedro A. Aranda Gutiérrez >> >> Technology Exploration - >> >> Network Innovation & Virtualisation >> >> email: pedroa d0t aranda At telefonica d0t com >> >> Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo >> >> C/ Zurbarán,12 >> >> 28010 Madrid, Spain >> >> Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden. >> >> Fragen sind da, um gestellt zu werden. >> >> Georg Kreisler >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su >> destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y >> es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. 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Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, >> rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e >> proceda a sua destruição >> > _______________________________________________ > Ibnemo mailing list > Ibnemo@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo From nobody Thu Nov 19 01:02:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D58C1B29D3 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 01:01:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AKrAONK2LTVD for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 01:01:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7FB41ADBFC for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 01:01:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CAN78272; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:01:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:01:06 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.83]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:00:56 +0800 From: Xiayinben To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , "zhangyali (D)" , PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ , Zhoutianran , "ibnemo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbSWJuZW1vXSDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTog562U5aSNOiBIb3cg?= =?utf-8?Q?to_group/reuse_definitions?= Thread-Index: AQHRIqTAdtmNlCUmUUOrgTDC73Rb6Z6jBhHQ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:00:55 +0000 Message-ID: <5FD31D8EDBF4EC468B36D86F04FDB2E878162C83@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <1F97B419-907B-4B0C-8FC7-6B60695DC70D@telefonica.com> <564C4393.2030404@bwijnen.net> <5FD31D8EDBF4EC468B36D86F04FDB2E8781628EF@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> <564D88A8.9080002@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <564D88A8.9080002@bwijnen.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.28.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090203.564D8FDE.000B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.6.83, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ea7f267aadfc0b111e7557837d85614b Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTog?= =?utf-8?q?=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D=3A_How_to_group/reuse_definitions?= X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." 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aXphw6fDo28gcG9kZSBlc3RhciBwcm9pYmlkYSANCj4+IGVtIHZpcnR1ZGUgZGEgbGVnaXNsYcOn w6NvIHZpZ2VudGUuIFNlIHJlY2ViZXUgZXN0YSBtZW5zYWdlbSBwb3IgZXJybywgDQo+PiByb2dh bW9zLWxoZSBxdWUgbm9zIG8gY29tdW5pcXVlIGltZWRpYXRhbWVudGUgcG9yIGVzdGEgbWVzbWEg dmlhIGUgDQo+PiBwcm9jZWRhIGEgc3VhIGRlc3RydWnDp8Ojbw0KPj4NCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gSWJuZW1vIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KPiBJYm5lbW9AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9pYm5lbW8NCg0K From nobody Fri Nov 27 01:32:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ibnemo@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290E91B2A57 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:32:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.886 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.886 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, 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with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:31:16 +0800 From: "zhangyali (D)" To: "ibnemo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Discussion about connection and connectivity Thread-Index: AdEo9hbTs9iOznXdQaG5f1Z2UDvqUg== Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:31:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.104.182] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A747A0713F56294D8FBE33E5C6B8F58135E97D4Fszxeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.5658230E.0177, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.123, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a745234c91d1e118e7ef49e2ce71822a Archived-At: Subject: [Ibnemo] Discussion about connection and connectivity X-BeenThere: ibnemo@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Nemo, an intent-based North Bound \(NB\) interface consisting of an application protocol running over HTTP \(RESTful interfaces\) to exchange intent-based primitives between applications and meta-controllers controlling virtual network resources \(networks, storage, CPU\)." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:32:10 -0000 --_000_A747A0713F56294D8FBE33E5C6B8F58135E97D4Fszxeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, These days we have discussed some important concepts, "connection", "connec= tivity" and "connect", with Pedro and Bert. Opinions are meaningful and wor= thy of consideration further. So I sum up the different views to make the t= opic clearer. Please point out it with no hesitations if I am biased. In fact, the core of this topic is what is the real meaning of "connection"= and "connectivity" (I think, "Connect" =3D "Connectivity"), and how to cho= ose them when you want to express the communication. Opinion 1, connection is any connected resource for any communication. It may maps int= o physical links, tunnels, or just virtual connection between ports in ovs. connectivity refers to the communication for all traffic or specific traffi= c, such as, allow http traffic. So, connection is the basis of connectivity in this view. User has to apply= connection (or resource) explicitly firstly. Then point out which service = could be allowed with specific policy (some default rules can be applied he= re). A typical scenario is the communication between distribute branches and hea= dquarters in WAN network. Enterprise need to apply the resources between br= anches and headquarter, then assign the communication rules between them. F= or example, only the traffic between branches and headquarter are allowed. Opinion 2, Connection refers to the "real" connection between nodes. It could be mappe= d into a real link in the physical network. Connectivity refers to the reachablity between nodes. In this opinion, connectivity does not depends on the application of connec= tion. A typical scenario is the communication in the DC. Resource could be = taken as infinite and full-meshed, which means user just need to express th= e connectivity between nodes without caring about the resource between them= . Opinion 3, Connection refers to the resource for communication. Connectivity refers to the communication between nodes. In this opinion, default connectivity does not need to express explicitly, = that is, connectivity is achieved only there are resources could be found b= etween them, and user just need to assign which connectivity is not allowed= . All we agree point is that resource is the base of community(though sometim= es resource is infinite and applied or assured by other mechanism). The que= stion now is that if we could unify these two concepts into one keyword and= define the rules about how to use them, or if we need to add a new keyword= to distinguish them explicitly? The discussion will sharpen understanding of model. So, expect all your wor= ds! Best Regards, Yali --_000_A747A0713F56294D8FBE33E5C6B8F58135E97D4Fszxeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi A= ll,

 

Thes= e days we have discussed some important concepts, “connection”,= “connectivity” and “connect”, with Pedro and Bert.= Opinions are meaningful and worthy of consideration further. So I sum up the different views to make the topic clearer. Please point out it with no= hesitations if I am biased.

 

In f= act, the core of this topic is what is the real meaning of “connectio= n” and “connectivity” (I think, “Connect” =3D= “Connectivity”), and how to choose them when you want to expre= ss the communication.

 

O= pinion 1,

conn= ection is any connected resource for any communication. It may maps into ph= ysical links, tunnels, or just virtual connection between ports in ovs.

conn= ectivity refers to the communication for all traffic or specific traffic, s= uch as, allow http traffic.

So, = connection is the basis of connectivity in this view. User has to apply connection (or resource) explicitly firstly. Then = point out which service could be allowed with specific policy (some default= rules can be applied here).

A ty= pical scenario is the communication between distribute branches and headqua= rters in WAN network. Enterprise need to apply the resources between branch= es and headquarter, then assign the communication rules between them. For example, only the traffic between branches and hea= dquarter are allowed.

<= o:p> 

O= pinion 2,

Conn= ection refers to the “real” connection between nodes. It could = be mapped into a real link in the physical network.

Conn= ectivity refers to the reachablity between nodes.

In t= his opinion, connectivity does not depends on the application of connection. A ty= pical scenario is the communication in the DC. Resource could be taken as i= nfinite and full-meshed, which means user just need to express the connecti= vity between nodes without caring about the resource between them.

 

O= pinion 3,

Conn= ection refers to the resource for communication.

Conn= ectivity refers to the communication between nodes.

In t= his opinion, default connectivity does not need to express explicitly, that is, c= onnectivity is achieved only there are resources could be found between the= m, and user just need to assign which connectivity is not allowed.

 

All = we agree point is that resource is the base of community(though sometimes r= esource is infinite and applied or assured by other mechanism). The questio= n now is that if we could unify these two concepts into one keyword and define the rules about how to use them, = or if we need to add a new keyword to distinguish them explicitly?

 

The = discussion will sharpen understanding of model. So, expect all your words!<= o:p>

 

Best= Regards,

Yali=

 

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