From nobody Sun Mar 20 15:50:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB74C12D548; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hJ9smt5gvc91; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com (aserp1040.oracle.com [141.146.126.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E54A812D53A; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2KMoCP8004987 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:50:13 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2KMoCHX014773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:50:12 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2KMoBo9015763; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:50:11 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.20] (/24.86.216.17) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:50:11 -0700 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E4A13D8B-3866-4267-82DB-1497CE6D4352" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:50:09 -0700 References: <20160320223939.8922.21591.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] Archived-At: Cc: "scim@ietf.org WG" , openid-general@lists.openid.net, "" Subject: [Id-event] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hunt-idevent-token-00.txt X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:50:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E4A13D8B-3866-4267-82DB-1497CE6D4352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This draft specifies an identity/security event token based on JSON Web = Tokens that can be extended for use in the identity space.=20 This is a preliminary draft based on the generous input of William = Dennis, Morteza Ansari, as well the collective comments received on the = id-event mailing list as well as informal discussion over the past few = years. Thanks to all who contributed! Another draft will follow that defines how the id event token draft can = be extended for SCIM. This should give other profiles an idea of how to = extend the id event token draft for other uses. There are also plans to do a subscription management draft that defines = event feeds, and how they are delivered (or establishes a registry to = support multiple methods. Unfortunately we were not able to get this = done in time for IETF95 through we will plan to discuss the = requirements. I encourage all to attend the SCIM session at IETF95 so we may further = discuss the drafts and possible future direction. Phil @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hunt-idevent-token-00.txt > Date: March 20, 2016 at 3:39:39 PM PDT > To: "William Denniss" , "Phil Hunt" = , "Morteza Ansari" >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-hunt-idevent-token-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-hunt-idevent-token > Revision: 00 > Title: Identity Event Token > Document date: 2016-03-20 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 14 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-idevent-token-00.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-idevent-token/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-idevent-token-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This specification defines an Identity Event token which may be > distributed via a protocol such as HTTP. An identity event token is > based on the JSON Web Token and may be optionally signed and/or > encrypted. It describes a statement of fact that may be shared by = an > event publisher with registered subscribers. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_E4A13D8B-3866-4267-82DB-1497CE6D4352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This draft specifies an identity/security event token based = on JSON Web Tokens that can be extended for use in the identity = space. 

This is = a preliminary draft based on the generous input of William Dennis, = Morteza Ansari, as well the collective comments received on the id-event = mailing list as well as informal discussion over the past few years. =  Thanks to all who contributed!

Another draft will follow that defines = how the id event token draft can be extended for SCIM. This should give = other profiles an idea of how to extend the id event token draft for = other uses.

There are also plans to do a subscription management draft = that defines event feeds, and how they are delivered (or establishes a = registry to support multiple methods.  Unfortunately we were not = able to get this done in time for IETF95 through we will plan to discuss = the requirements.

I encourage all to attend the SCIM = session at IETF95 so we may further discuss the drafts and possible = future direction.




Begin forwarded message:

From: = internet-drafts@ietf.org
Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-hunt-idevent-token-00.txt
Date: = March 20, 2016 at 3:39:39 PM = PDT
To: = "William Denniss" <wdenniss@google.com>, "Phil Hunt" <phil.hunt@yahoo.com>, "Morteza Ansari" <morteza.ansari@cisco.com>

A new version = of I-D, draft-hunt-idevent-token-00.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to the
IETF = repository.

Name: = draft-hunt-idevent-token
Revision: 00
Title:= = Identity Event Token
Document date: = 2016-03-20
Group: Individual Submission
Pages:= = 14
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-idevent-token-0= 0.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-idevent-token/<= br class=3D"">Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-idevent-token-00


Abstract:
=   This specification defines an Identity Event token which may = be
  distributed via a protocol such as HTTP. =  An identity event token is
  based on the = JSON Web Token and may be optionally signed and/or
=   encrypted.  It describes a statement of fact that may = be shared by an
  event publisher with = registered subscribers.




Please note that it may take a couple of = minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized = version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat


= --Apple-Mail=_E4A13D8B-3866-4267-82DB-1497CE6D4352-- From nobody Sun Mar 20 15:53:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D7112D561; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9egDQLlbTS3i; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com (aserp1040.oracle.com [141.146.126.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FAF512D555; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2KMrQ4J006594 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:53:26 GMT Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2KMrPx7019194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:53:26 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2KMrPlK026841; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:53:25 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.20] (/24.86.216.17) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:53:25 -0700 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4F286B55-98F7-4C80-8FEB-5568C47BF99C" Message-Id: <1FBFEFDA-1B88-44B1-8A7A-1C4297FB71F1@oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 15:53:23 -0700 References: <20160320223949.8950.61033.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] Archived-At: Cc: "scim@ietf.org WG" , openid-general@lists.openid.net, "" Subject: [Id-event] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00.txt X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:53:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4F286B55-98F7-4C80-8FEB-5568C47BF99C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As mentioned in my previous message, this draft profiles the id-event = token draft to define events for SCIM. We plan to discuss this draft at the upcoming SCIM WG meeting at IETF95. This draft may also be of interest to non-SCIM participants for creating = other event profiles of id-event tokens. Phil @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00.txt > Date: March 20, 2016 at 3:39:49 PM PDT > To: "William Denniss" , "Phil Hunt" = , "Morteza Ansari" >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-hunt-idevent-scim > Revision: 00 > Title: SCIM Event Extension > Document date: 2016-03-20 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 14 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-idevent-scim/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This specification profiles the Identity Event Token specification = to > define a set of identity events to be used with SCIM. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_4F286B55-98F7-4C80-8FEB-5568C47BF99C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii As mentioned in my previous message, this draft profiles the = id-event token draft to define events for SCIM.

We plan to discuss this draft at the = upcoming SCIM WG meeting at IETF95.

This draft may also be of interest to = non-SCIM participants for creating other event profiles of id-event = tokens.




Begin forwarded message:

From: = internet-drafts@ietf.org
Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00.txt
Date: = March 20, 2016 at 3:39:49 PM = PDT
To: = "William Denniss" <wdenniss@google.com>, "Phil Hunt" <phil.hunt@yahoo.com>, "Morteza Ansari" <morteza.ansari@cisco.com>

A new version = of I-D, draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to the
IETF = repository.

Name: = draft-hunt-idevent-scim
Revision: 00
Title:= = SCIM Event Extension
Document date: = 2016-03-20
Group: Individual Submission
Pages:= = 14
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00= .txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-idevent-scim/Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-idevent-scim-00


Abstract:
=   This specification profiles the Identity Event Token = specification to
  define a set of identity = events to be used with SCIM.




Please note that it may take a = couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the = htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


= --Apple-Mail=_4F286B55-98F7-4C80-8FEB-5568C47BF99C-- From nobody Fri Mar 25 14:01:59 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59DCE12D15C for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:01:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IWjtICvRXkcd for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B1B412D0CC for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2PL1sGT003750 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:01:55 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PL1svP004243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:01:54 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2PL1pvF002746 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:01:53 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.22] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:01:51 -0700 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8BBFDACC-89AC-4D48-95A9-57D9DC0DA478" Message-Id: <75F8CA8B-5799-422F-8D9B-98FB5E57C3F3@oracle.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:01:50 -0700 To: id-event@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] Archived-At: Subject: [Id-event] How to Distribute Tokens X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:01:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8BBFDACC-89AC-4D48-95A9-57D9DC0DA478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hoping some of you all had a chance to look at the two id-token drafts = published earlier this week on the id-event list [1][2]. For the next piece of the events puzzle, I had been thinking about a = subscription mgmt draft that defines how events are distributed, how = clients can look for Feeds, and how they can subscribe (loosely building = on the old scim notify draft). The trouble with subscription management, is that we end up having to = pick a RESTful API standard of some kind (e.g. SCIM). This might not be = desirable to some. Also some may want to administer subscriptions = through web pages and not through automated interfaces. So it is not = clear to me(yet) that we need an automated way for clients to subscribe. Observations: * For many we=E2=80=99re not talking scale in the number of = subscriptions but rather scale in the number of events. Most of these = subscriptions will likely be set up administratively as many of these = streams are privileged. * For mobile cases (thinking of per-app events with one subscriber and = few events), it might be that these apps get provisioned through some = other automated way then a generic subscription API. Not sure. I propose the following: 1. Have a idevent-distribution draft that defines HTTP GET and POST as = distribution methods and establishes a an event distribution methods = registry so that other approaches like WebPUSH, GMS, APNS etc can be = registered. This would likely be the minimum we need to establish a methodology for = transferring tokens and allow others to define other distribution = methods as needed.=20 2. The SCIM WG could pursue a SCIM based subscription draft if desired. = It would define 2 new resource types: Feeds and Subscriptions. Concern: The one challenge I envision is recovery scenarios. What = happens when a subscriber goes offline? The mgmt interfaces are handy = because they would potentially allow a client to re-start or reset a = feed. At that point we come back to needing a RESTful mgmt API. = Automated recovery seems an important piece here. Does starting with an idevent-distribution draft seem like a preferable = way to go? [1] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/id-event/vdASC0oxP0DppyO6fN-G8vimpJ0= = [2] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/id-event/3yyYIkRQsCv9iJWZ_plMZlE45-k= = Thanks in advance. Looking forward to a good discussion during the SCIM = session at IETF95! Phil @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = --Apple-Mail=_8BBFDACC-89AC-4D48-95A9-57D9DC0DA478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hoping some of you all had a chance to look = at the two id-token drafts published earlier this week on the id-event = list [1][2].

For= the next piece of the events puzzle, I had been thinking about a = subscription mgmt draft that defines how events are distributed, how = clients can look for Feeds, and how they can subscribe (loosely building = on the old scim notify draft).

The trouble with subscription = management, is that we end up having to pick a RESTful API standard of = some kind (e.g. SCIM). This might not be desirable to some.  Also = some may want to administer subscriptions through web pages and not = through automated interfaces.   So it is not clear to me(yet) that = we need an automated way for clients to subscribe.

Observations:
* For many we=E2=80=99re not talking scale in the number of = subscriptions but rather scale in the number of events.  Most of = these subscriptions will likely be set up administratively as many of = these streams are privileged.
* For mobile cases = (thinking of per-app events with one subscriber and few events), it = might be that these apps get provisioned through some other automated = way then a generic subscription API.  Not sure.

I propose the = following:

1. =  Have a idevent-distribution draft that defines HTTP GET and POST = as distribution methods and establishes a an event distribution methods = registry so that other approaches like WebPUSH, GMS, APNS etc can be = registered.

This= would likely be the minimum we need to establish a methodology for = transferring tokens and allow others to define other distribution = methods as needed. 

2.  The SCIM WG could pursue a SCIM based subscription = draft if desired.  It would define 2 new resource types:   = Feeds and Subscriptions.

Concern:  The one challenge I envision is recovery = scenarios. What happens when a subscriber goes offline? The mgmt = interfaces are handy because they would potentially allow a client to = re-start or reset a feed.  At that point we come back to needing a = RESTful mgmt API.  Automated recovery seems an important piece = here.

Does = starting with an idevent-distribution draft seem like a preferable way = to go?

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/id-event/vdASC0oxP0DppyO6= fN-G8vimpJ0
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/id-event/3yyYIkRQsCv9iJWZ= _plMZlE45-k

Thanks in = advance.  Looking forward to a good discussion during the SCIM = session at IETF95!




= --Apple-Mail=_8BBFDACC-89AC-4D48-95A9-57D9DC0DA478--