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From: Marius Scurtescu <marius.scurtescu@coinbase.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:25:04 -0800
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/id-event/TGXGc4a1q3k1gSnC5I-j8toBrH4>
Subject: Re: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call
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Hi all,

I realize we are past December 2, not sure what the procedure is for
feedback at this point. Nevertheless, here are a few comments and
observations:

- At the end of section 1 it is stated "have an out-of-band mechanism for
exchanging configuration metadata". Does "out-of-band" exclude discovery
mechanisms? Should we drop "out-of-band" and make the sentence more general?

- Section 1.2, we also need a definition for "SET Recipient".

- Section 2, list of validations: should we add that the Recipient should
also validate that it is willing to receive events from the given
transmitter? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be whitelisted.

- Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no response at all
is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitting should be an
option.

- Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we add a signature so the example
is more realistic?

- Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible status code. What about
401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate status code if the SET
is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing to accept events from
the given transmitter/issuer.

Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if we agree on them). Let
me know.

Best,
Marius

On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
> Dear SecEvent participants,
>
>
> This is to start a 2-week working group last call on
> draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/%3E,>;, until
> Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In addition, if you have
> no comments but support publication of this document as-is, please make
> your voice heard.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>      Dick and Yaron
>

--00000000000032b83f057c4ddb0d
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<br><br>I realize we are past Dece=
mber 2, not sure what the procedure is for feedback at this point. Neverthe=
less, here are a few comments and observations:<br><br>- At the end of sect=
ion 1 it is stated &quot;have an out-of-band mechanism for exchanging confi=
guration metadata&quot;. Does &quot;out-of-band&quot; exclude discovery mec=
hanisms? Should we drop &quot;out-of-band&quot; and make the sentence more =
general?<br><br>- Section 1.2, we also need a definition for &quot;SET Reci=
pient&quot;.<br><br>- Section 2, list of validations: should we add that th=
e Recipient should also validate that it is willing to receive events from =
the given transmitter? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be white=
listed.<br><br>- Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no =
response at all is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitti=
ng should be an option.<br><br>- Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we=
 add a signature so the example is more realistic?</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">- Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible s=
tatus code. What about 401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate=
 status code if the SET is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing=
 to accept events from the given transmitter/issuer.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br></div><div>Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if we agree =
on them). Let me know.</div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best,</div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">Marius</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><pre class=3D"gmail-m_1872575=
261230832478gmail-wordwrap" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;fo=
nt-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,&quot;Courier New&quot;,monospace;font-size=
:13px;padding:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10px;line-height:1.42857;wor=
d-break:normal;color:rgb(51,51,51);border:0px none black;border-radius:4px;=
white-space:pre-wrap">On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
&gt; Dear SecEvent participants,
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; This is to start a 2-week working group last call on=20
&gt; draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03=20
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-ht=
tp-push/%3E," rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;background-co=
lor:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/&gt;=
</a>;, until=20
&gt; Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In addition, if you have=
=20
&gt; no comments but support publication of this document as-is, please mak=
e=20
&gt; your voice heard.
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; Thanks,
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Dick and Yaron
&gt;=20
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-m_1872575261230832478gmail-Apple-interchange-newli=
ne"></div></div>

--00000000000032b83f057c4ddb0d--


From nobody Wed Dec  5 14:27:57 2018
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From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:27:39 -0800
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To: marius.scurtescu=40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call
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I'm sure a PR would be appreciated Marius. Thanks for taking the time to
review!

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 2:25 PM Marius Scurtescu <marius.scurtescu=
40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I realize we are past December 2, not sure what the procedure is for
> feedback at this point. Nevertheless, here are a few comments and
> observations:
>
> - At the end of section 1 it is stated "have an out-of-band mechanism for
> exchanging configuration metadata". Does "out-of-band" exclude discovery
> mechanisms? Should we drop "out-of-band" and make the sentence more general?
>
> - Section 1.2, we also need a definition for "SET Recipient".
>
> - Section 2, list of validations: should we add that the Recipient should
> also validate that it is willing to receive events from the given
> transmitter? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be whitelisted.
>
> - Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no response at
> all is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitting should be
> an option.
>
> - Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we add a signature so the
> example is more realistic?
>
> - Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible status code. What about
> 401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate status code if the SET
> is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing to accept events from
> the given transmitter/issuer.
>
> Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if we agree on them). Let
> me know.
>
> Best,
> Marius
>
> On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
> > Dear SecEvent participants,
> >
> >
> > This is to start a 2-week working group last call on
> > draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03
> > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/%3E,>;, until
> > Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In addition, if you have
> > no comments but support publication of this document as-is, please make
> > your voice heard.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >      Dick and Yaron
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Id-event mailing list
> Id-event@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event
>

--0000000000008010bd057c4de448
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;m sure a PR would be appreciated Marius. Thanks for =
taking the time to review!</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 2:25 PM Marius Scurtescu &lt;marius.scurtescu=
=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40coinbase.com@dmarc.ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<br><br>I realize we are past December 2, not s=
ure what the procedure is for feedback at this point. Nevertheless, here ar=
e a few comments and observations:<br><br>- At the end of section 1 it is s=
tated &quot;have an out-of-band mechanism for exchanging configuration meta=
data&quot;. Does &quot;out-of-band&quot; exclude discovery mechanisms? Shou=
ld we drop &quot;out-of-band&quot; and make the sentence more general?<br><=
br>- Section 1.2, we also need a definition for &quot;SET Recipient&quot;.<=
br><br>- Section 2, list of validations: should we add that the Recipient s=
hould also validate that it is willing to receive events from the given tra=
nsmitter? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be whitelisted.<br><b=
r>- Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no response at a=
ll is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitting should be =
an option.<br><br>- Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we add a signat=
ure so the example is more realistic?</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">- Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible status code. W=
hat about 401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate status code =
if the SET is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing to accept ev=
ents from the given transmitter/issuer.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v>Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if we agree on them). Let=
 me know.</div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Best,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Marius</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><pre class=3D"m_-8319919346437910091gmail-=
m_1872575261230832478gmail-wordwrap" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflo=
w:auto;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,&quot;Courier New&quot;,monospace;=
font-size:13px;padding:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10px;line-height:1.=
42857;word-break:normal;color:rgb(51,51,51);border:0px none black;border-ra=
dius:4px;white-space:pre-wrap">On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
&gt; Dear SecEvent participants,
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; This is to start a 2-week working group last call on=20
&gt; draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03=20
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-ht=
tp-push/%3E," rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;background-co=
lor:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/&gt;=
</a>;, until=20
&gt; Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In addition, if you have=
=20
&gt; no comments but support publication of this document as-is, please mak=
e=20
&gt; your voice heard.
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; Thanks,
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Dick and Yaron
&gt;=20
</pre><br class=3D"m_-8319919346437910091gmail-m_1872575261230832478gmail-A=
pple-interchange-newline"></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Id-event mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Id-event@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Id-event@ietf.org</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000008010bd057c4de448--


From nobody Wed Dec  5 14:30:34 2018
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To: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>, marius.scurtescu=40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org
Cc: SecEvent <Id-event@ietf.org>
References: <CABpvcNsj1paWcV_YevmGJbeiS7=oMHDhS9eP-d7Qz4ZOZe4sMw@mail.gmail.com> <CAD9ie-sQ92GhpbYJhX+PAWopOMpE+ZLpepVyodpx_Hfw3wCbUg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call
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And additional reviews (or even emphatic support statements) would be 
highly appreciated. We cannot have the doc published with exactly one 
WGLC review.

Thanks,
	Yaron

On 06/12/2018 0:27, Dick Hardt wrote:
> I'm sure a PR would be appreciated Marius. Thanks for taking the time to 
> review!
> 
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 2:25 PM Marius Scurtescu 
> <marius.scurtescu=40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org 
> <mailto:40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi all,
> 
>     I realize we are past December 2, not sure what the procedure is for
>     feedback at this point. Nevertheless, here are a few comments and
>     observations:
> 
>     - At the end of section 1 it is stated "have an out-of-band
>     mechanism for exchanging configuration metadata". Does "out-of-band"
>     exclude discovery mechanisms? Should we drop "out-of-band" and make
>     the sentence more general?
> 
>     - Section 1.2, we also need a definition for "SET Recipient".
> 
>     - Section 2, list of validations: should we add that the Recipient
>     should also validate that it is willing to receive events from the
>     given transmitter? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be
>     whitelisted.
> 
>     - Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no response
>     at all is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitting
>     should be an option.
> 
>     - Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we add a signature so the
>     example is more realistic?
> 
>     - Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible status code. What
>     about 401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate status
>     code if the SET is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing
>     to accept events from the given transmitter/issuer.
> 
>     Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if we agree on
>     them). Let me know.
> 
>     Best,
>     Marius
> 
>     On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
>     > Dear SecEvent participants,
>     > 
>     > 
>     > This is to start a 2-week working group last call on 
>     > draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03 
>     > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/>  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/%3E,>;, until
>     > Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In addition, if you have 
>     > no comments but support publication of this document as-is, please make 
>     > your voice heard.
>     > 
>     > 
>     > Thanks,
>     > 
>     > 
>     >      Dick and Yaron
>     > 
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Id-event mailing list
>     Id-event@ietf.org <mailto:Id-event@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Id-event mailing list
> Id-event@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event
> 


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In-Reply-To: <79BE299A-03AF-4585-B459-C8FC6293D202@amazon.com>
From: Marius Scurtescu <marius.scurtescu@coinbase.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 16:52:50 -0800
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call
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comments inline...

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 3:54 PM Richard Backman, Annabelle <richanna=3D
40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback, Marius. Please see my [richanna]comments
> inline[/richanna].
>
>
>
> --
>
> Annabelle Richard Backman
>
> AWS Identity
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Id-event <id-event-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Marius
> Scurtescu <marius.scurtescu=3D40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Date: *Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 2:25 PM
> *To: *"Id-event@ietf.org" <Id-event@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I realize we are past December 2, not sure what the procedure is for
> feedback at this point. Nevertheless, here are a few comments and
> observations:
>
> - At the end of section 1 it is stated "have an out-of-band mechanism for
> exchanging configuration metadata". Does "out-of-band" exclude discovery
> mechanisms? Should we drop "out-of-band" and make the sentence more gener=
al?
>
> [richanna]
>
> The words =E2=80=9Cout-of-band=E2=80=9D were intended to indicate that th=
e mechanism is
> separate and apart from this delivery mechanism, and may occur over
> drastically different channels. (e.g., a web console, an email between
> admins, URLs written on a cocktail napkin :D) It is important that this
> text allow for offline mechanisms as well as online ones. Happy to consid=
er
> alternate text that captures this better.
>
> [/richanna]
>
>
>
I was just worried that "out-of-band" is too strong and I was suggesting to
drop only that term. I think that all the options you mention are allowed.
Not feeling too strong about this.



> - Section 1.2, we also need a definition for "SET Recipient".
>
>
>
> [richanna]
>
> SET Recipient is defined in RFC8417
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8417#section-1.2>. We could add a stub
> definition that points back to 8417, if having SET Transmitter defined he=
re
> but not SET Recipient is confusing. Something like:
>
>
>
> SET Recipient
>
>    An entity that receives SETs through some distribution method, as
> defined in RFC8417.
>
> [/richanna]
>
>
Yes, I think either both or none. The definition above sounds good to me.
Do we want to add "as defined in RFC8417" to the definition of transmitter
as well?



> - Section 2, list of validations: should we add that the Recipient should
> also validate that it is willing to receive events from the given
> transmitter? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be whitelisted.
>
> [richanna]
>
> Agreed.
>
> [/richanna]
>
>
> - Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no response at
> all is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitting should =
be
> an option.
>
> [richanna]
>
> Agreed.
>
> [/richanna]
>
>
> - Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we add a signature so the
> example is more realistic?
>
>
>
> [richanna]
>
> Yes, our examples should demonstrate best practices.
>
> [/richanna]
>
>
>
> - Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible status code. What about
> 401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate status code if the S=
ET
> is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing to accept events from
> the given transmitter/issuer.
>
>
>
> [richanna]
>
> The consensus at IETF 101 was to return everything as 400, and leave HTTP
> status codes to HTTP.
>
> [/richanna]
>

I see. The 403 case is important IMO, the fact that the SET is perfectly
valid but the recipient is not willing to accept from this transmitter. Is
the "jwtIss" error code meant to cover this case? I guess there is nothing
to change here then.


>
>
> Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if we agree on them). Let
> me know.
>
>
>
> [richanna]
>
> Yes, please! :D
>
> [/richanna]
>

Should I clone/fork off https://github.com/richanna/Identity-Events (you
sent me instructions at some point)?


>
> Best,
>
> Marius
>
>
>
> On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
>
> > Dear SecEvent participants,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This is to start a 2-week working group last call on
>
> > draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03
>
> > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/> <http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/%3E,>;, until
>
> > Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In addition, if you have
>
> > no comments but support publication of this document as-is, please make
>
> > your voice heard.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >      Dick and Yaron
>
> >
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">comment=
s inline...<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 3:54 PM Richard Backman, Annabelle &lt;ri=
channa=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">4=
0amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4838338365929349124gmail-m_5353780814388089913WordSec=
tion1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the feedback, Marius. Please see my <span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">
[richanna]comments inline[/richanna]</span>.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">--=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">Annabelle Richard Backman<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">AWS Identity<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: =
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Id-event &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:id-event-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">id-event-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Marius Scurtescu &lt;marius.scurtescu=3D<a href=
=3D"mailto:40coinbase.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40coinbase.com@=
dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:Id-event@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Id-=
event@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Id-event@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">Id-event@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I realize we are past December 2, not sure what the procedure is for feedba=
ck at this point. Nevertheless, here are a few comments and observations:<b=
r>
<br>
- At the end of section 1 it is stated &quot;have an out-of-band mechanism =
for exchanging configuration metadata&quot;. Does &quot;out-of-band&quot; e=
xclude discovery mechanisms? Should we drop &quot;out-of-band&quot; and mak=
e the sentence more general?<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">The words =E2=
=80=9Cout-of-band=E2=80=9D were intended to indicate that the mechanism is =
separate and apart from this delivery mechanism, and may occur over drastic=
ally different channels. (e.g., a web console, an email between
 admins, URLs written on a cocktail napkin :D) It is important that this te=
xt allow for offline mechanisms as well as online ones. Happy to consider a=
lternate text that captures this better.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>I was just worried that &quot;out-of-band&quot; is too strong =
and I was suggesting to drop only that term. I think that all the options y=
ou mention are allowed. Not feeling too strong about this.</div><div><br></=
div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4838338365929349124gmail-m_5353780814=
388089913WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">
- Section 1.2, we also need a definition for &quot;SET Recipient&quot;.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">SET Recipient =
is defined in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8417#section-1.2" t=
arget=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">RFC8417</span></a>. We could add a st=
ub definition that points back to 8417, if having SET Transmitter defined h=
ere but not SET Recipient is confusing. Something like:<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">SET Recipient<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 A=
n entity that receives SETs through some distribution method, as defined in=
 RFC8417.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]</s=
pan><br>
<br></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I thi=
nk either both or none. The definition above sounds good to me. Do we want =
to add &quot;as defined in RFC8417&quot; to the definition of transmitter a=
s well?</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4838338365929=
349124gmail-m_5353780814388089913WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">
- Section 2, list of validations: should we add that the Recipient should a=
lso validate that it is willing to receive events from the given transmitte=
r? In other words, the transmitter/issuer must be whitelisted.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">Agreed.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
- Section 2, last paragraph: there is also the case when no response at all=
 is received from the Recipient, in which case re-transmitting should be an=
 option.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">Agreed.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
- Figure 1: there is no signature. Should we add a signature so the example=
 is more realistic?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">Yes, our examp=
les should demonstrate best practices.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Section 2.3: only 400 is mentioned as possible sta=
tus code. What about 401, 403 or 429? For example, 403 is the appropriate s=
tatus code if the SET is perfectly valid but the Recipient is not willing t=
o accept events from the given transmitter/issuer.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">The consensus =
at IETF 101 was to return everything as 400, and leave HTTP status codes to=
 HTTP.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]</s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I see. The=
 403 case is important IMO, the fact that the SET is perfectly valid but th=
e recipient is not willing to accept from this transmitter. Is the &quot;jw=
tIss&quot; error code meant to cover this case? I guess there is nothing to=
 change here then.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_48383383659293491=
24gmail-m_5353780814388089913WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Happy to send a pull request for these changes (if w=
e agree on them). Let me know.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[richanna]<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">Yes, please! :=
D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)">[/richanna]</s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Should I c=
lone/fork off <a href=3D"https://github.com/richanna/Identity-Events">https=
://github.com/richanna/Identity-Events</a>=C2=A0(you sent me instructions a=
t some point)?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4838338365929349124gma=
il-m_5353780814388089913WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(207,35,255)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Marius<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">On 18/11/2018 10:05, Yaron Sheffer wrote:<u></u><u></u></span=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; Dear SecEvent participants,<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; This is to start a 2-week working group last call on <u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03 <u></u><u></u></span></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie=
tf-secevent-http-push/%3E," target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,1=
22,183)">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-http-push/&gt=
;</span></a>;, until <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; Dec. 2. Please send any comments to the list. In additio=
n, if you have <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; no comments but support publication of this document as-=
is, please make <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; your voice heard.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Dick and Yaron<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Menlo;color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">&gt; <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000aaa81d057c4feb85--


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Thread-Topic: [Id-event] Push Delivery: working group last call
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From: "Richard Backman, Annabelle" <richanna@amazon.com>
To: Adam Dawes <adawes=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
CC: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>, ID Events Mailing List <id-event@ietf.org>, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Thread-Topic: [Id-event] stab at describing email canonicalization dragons
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] stab at describing email canonicalization dragons
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From nobody Thu Dec  6 17:58:49 2018
Return-Path: <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
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From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 17:58:25 -0800
Message-ID: <CAD9ie-u6T79M8OZRj3gba5mJ+9PyhX-FSUW+37ObJR+uX-=kfg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Annabelle Richard <richanna@amazon.com>
Cc: Adam Dawes <adawes=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>, SecEvent <id-event@ietf.org>,  Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] stab at describing email canonicalization dragons
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Agreed this was not captured in the original text. I did describe it in a
follow on email:

As to the '+' functionality, some parties may use that to know it is the
same subject at the host. For example, if merchantfoo subscribed to receive
events for subject alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> from mailprovider.com, then
mailprovider.com would canonicalize the subject to
alicesmith@mailprovider.com <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com>.



While merchantfoo would use  alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> for sending email, it would
likely be useful for merchantfoo to know that  alicesmith@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> and
alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> are the same subject from a
SET point of view. For example, if merchantfoo is attempting to find mutual
subjects with a non-email provider, socialfoo.com, then they would ideally
both use  alicesmith@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> even though Alice had
provided  alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> to merchantfoor and
alicesmith+socialfoo@mailprovider.com
<alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> to socialfoo.

Using a generic domain is preferable to gmail.com.

I would change this statement to be "for the same SET subject"

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:08 PM Richard Backman, Annabelle <
richanna@amazon.com> wrote:

> (resurrecting this thread=E2=80=A6)
>
>
>
> There is one other angle that I think isn=E2=80=99t quite captured in the=
 text:
> SET Recipients may want to apply different canonicalization rules when
> resolving an Email Subject Identifier to one or more accounts in their
> system than they do when resolving a user-supplied email address to a
> specific account. For example, a service provider might consider =E2=80=
=9C
> example+foo@gmail.com=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cexample+bar@gmail.com=E2=80=
=9D to be different,
> unrelated email addresses each identifying a different, unrelated local
> account. However, when processing a SET from Google, that service provide=
r
> might want to map any of =E2=80=9Cexample@gmail.com=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cex=
ample+foo@gmail.com=E2=80=9D,
> and =E2=80=9Cexample+bar@gmail.com=E2=80=9D onto BOTH local accounts, sin=
ce they
> understand that they are all just aliases for the same account on
> Google=E2=80=99s side.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Annabelle Richard Backman
>
> AWS Identity
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Id-event <id-event-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Adam Dawes
> <adawes=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Date: *Friday, November 9, 2018 at 5:58 PM
> *To: *Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>, ID Events Mailing List <
> id-event@ietf.org>, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Id-event] stab at describing email canonicalization
> dragons
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:58 PM Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Phil: RFC5321 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321> describes a valid
> email address, it is not canonical.
>
>
>
> Adam: in my experience, we strip the dots in gmail addresses, since we
> have learned that is what Google does. :)
>
> As to the '+' functionality, some parties may use that to know it is the
> same subject at the host. For example, if merchantfoo subscribed to recei=
ve
> events for subject alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> from mailprovider.com, then
> mailprovider.com would canonicalize the subject to
> alicesmith@mailprovider.com <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com>.
>
>
>
> While merchantfoo would use  alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> for sending email, it would
> likely be useful for merchantfoo to know that  alicesmith@mailprovider.co=
m
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> and
> alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> are the same subject from a
> SET point of view. For example, if merchantfoo is attempting to find mutu=
al
> subjects with a non-email provider, socialfoo.com, then they would
> ideally both use  alicesmith@mailprovider.com
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> even though Alice had
> provided  alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> to merchantfoor and
> alicesmith+socialfoo@mailprovider.com
> <alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com> to socialfoo.
>
>
>
> Exactly right
>
>
>
> In the WG meeting there was a discussion about standardizing
> canonicalization, and the consensus in the meeting was that was out of
> scope, but that it was important to call out the issue.
>
>
>
> +1
>
> It is useful to alert implementers that these issues exist. As for solvin=
g
> the deeper problem, I was curious about whether that was being
> contemplated. But it seems that is out of scope. Not surprised. Always mo=
re
> things to do in the future!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 2:28 AM Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
>
> Why is RFC5321 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321> not sufficient to
> define canonicalization for email addresses?
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> Oracle Corporation, Cloud Security and Identity Architect
>
> @independentid
>
> www.independentid.com
>
> phil.hunt@oracle.com
>
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Adam Dawes <
> adawes=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think it does make sense to do the same canonicalization for SETs. But =
I
> suspect that most canonicalization that apps do is purely focused on prop=
er
> lower casing. I would be more surprised if apps canonicalize on special
> characters like .,+ etc. I don't know as if there are any guidance in the
> mail RFCs on how to treat these so I think there are inconsistent
> treatments from mail providers. Some apps may understand the conventions =
of
> larger mail providers but I suspect you're still going to have
> discrepancies that are hard to iron out without fully understanding the
> mail provider's canonicalization scheme. And some users expect that their
> mail will not be canoncialized. For example, Gmail provides the + charact=
er
> so that a user can give unique addresses to each recipient
> alice.smith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com. If merchantfoo stripped the +
> in canonicalizing, then Alice wouldn't be able to manage mail from
> merchantfoo as easily.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 4:40 PM Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Adam
>
>
>
> The problem you are describing is what I was attempting to capture. Since
> Alice mailprovider.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&e=3D>
>  removes dots, merchantfoo.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&e=3D>likely
> has already figured out mailprover.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprover.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DmTGYSlxU_pijrujTDzx_q4j1xTpayjPz1xP5ykoqoUE&e=3D>'s
> canonicalization since Alice can enter alice.smith@mailprovider.com or
> alicesmith@mailprovider.com <alice.smith@mailprovider.com> at any site
> and receive email. The suggested text says merchantfoo.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&e=3D>
>  SHOULD do the same canonicalization for email subject identifiers that
> it already does with emails entered by the user.
>
>
>
> Does that make sense? Suggested changes to the text?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 4:52 AM Adam Dawes <adawes@google.com> wrote:
>
> I think this makes sense. However, I wanted to point out that there's a
> higher level problem in that the Transmitter is providing it's
> canonicalized identifier in the SET and this may not map to the receiver'=
s
> canonicalized identifier.
>
>
>
> For example, Alice may have registered alice.smith@mailprovider.com with
> merchantfoo.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&e=3D>..
> When mailprovider.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&e=3D>
>  sends a SET to merchantfoo.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&e=3D>,
> it could be for alicesmith@mailprovider.com
>
>
>
> merchantfoo can't effectively remap the event to the proper account on
> their side without first knowing mailprovider.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&e=3D>'s
> canonicalization scheme. I'm not sure what can be done about this absent
> some way for mailprovider.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&d=
=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanq=
WNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbi=
SAQ&s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&e=3D>
>  to advertise its canonicalization scheme. Is there a suggestion to do
> that?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 2:29 AM Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 5:27 PM Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Looks good, and I think this is a normative SHOULD.
>
> Thanks,
>         Yaron
>
> On 08/11/2018 17:07, Dick Hardt wrote:
> >
> > Many email providers will treat the following email addresses as
> equivalent:
> >
> > johnsmith@example.com <mailto:johnsmith@example.com>
> > JOHNSMITH@EXAMPLE.COM <JOHNSMITH@EXAMPLE..COM> <mailto:
> JOHNSMITH@EXAMPLE.COM>
> > JohnSmith@example.com <mailto:JohnSmith@example.com>
> > john.smith@example.com <mailto:john.smith@example.com>
> >
> > This has led users to view these strings as equivalent, and has led to
> > email address canonicalization algorithms that are implementations
> > specific, so that user entered email addresses resolve to the same
> > canonical string.  When receiving an email identifier, the recipient
> > should use their implementation's canonicalization algorithm to resolve
> > to the same subject identifier string used in their system.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Id-event mailing list
> > Id-event@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail=
man_listinfo_id-2Devent&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65e=
apI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09Z=
Hko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&s=3D4a2fxkjOZSARRKA7He56h0TuV6oAPK3SRRpCJXszW5=
U&e=3D>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Id-event mailing list
> Id-event@ietf..org <Id-event@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail=
man_listinfo_id-2Devent&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65e=
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U&e=3D>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410
> <+1%20650-214-2410>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Id-event mailing list
> Id-event@ietf.org
>
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pI_JnE&r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZH=
ko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&s=3D4a2fxkjOZSARRKA7He56h0TuV6oAPK3SRRpCJXszW5U=
&e=3D
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410
>
>
>

--00000000000030be21057c64f4cd
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Agreed this was not captured in the original text. I did d=
escribe it in a follow on email:<div><br></div><div><div style=3D"color:rgb=
(80,0,80)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">As to the &#39;+&#39; functionality, some=
 parties may use that to know it is the same subject at the host. For examp=
le, if merchantfoo subscribed to receive events for subject=C2=A0<a href=3D=
"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailp=
rovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0from=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://mailprovider.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">mailprovider.com</a>, then=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://mailpro=
vider.com/" target=3D"_blank">mailprovider.com</a>=C2=A0would canonicalize =
the subject to=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mail=
provider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:He=
lvetica">alicesmith@mailprovider.com</span></a>.<u></u><u></u></p></div><di=
v style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">While mer=
chantfoo would use=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@m=
ailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family=
:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0for sen=
ding email, it would likely be useful for merchantfoo to know that=C2=A0=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"=
_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith@mail=
provider.com</span></a>=C2=A0and=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%=
2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com</span></=
a>=C2=A0are the same subject from a SET point of view. For example, if merc=
hantfoo is attempting to find mutual subjects with a non-email provider,=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"http://socialfoo.com/" target=3D"_blank">socialfoo.com</a>, t=
hen they would ideally both use=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2B=
merchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9p=
t;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0even t=
hough Alice had provided=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchan=
tfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-=
family:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0t=
o merchantfoor and=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@m=
ailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family=
:Helvetica">alicesmith+socialfoo@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0to social=
foo.</p></div><div><br></div><div>Using a generic domain is preferable to <=
a href=3D"http://gmail.com">gmail.com</a>.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I=
 would change this <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">statemen=
t</span> to be &quot;for the same SET subject&quot;</div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:08 PM Richard Backma=
n, Annabelle &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richanna@amazon.com">richanna@amazon.com=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(resurrecting this thread=E2=80=A6)<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is one other angle that I think isn=E2=80=99t =
quite captured in the text: SET Recipients may want to apply different cano=
nicalization rules when resolving an Email Subject Identifier to one or mor=
e accounts in their system than they do when
 resolving a user-supplied email address to a specific account. For example=
, a service provider might consider =E2=80=9C<a href=3D"mailto:example%2Bfo=
o@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">example+foo@gmail.com</a>=E2=80=9D and =E2=
=80=9C<a href=3D"mailto:example%2Bbar@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">example+=
bar@gmail.com</a>=E2=80=9D to be different, unrelated email addresses each =
identifying a different, unrelated local account.
 However, when processing a SET from Google, that service provider might wa=
nt to map any of =E2=80=9C<a href=3D"mailto:example@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">example@gmail.com</a>=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C<a href=3D"mailto:example%2B=
foo@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">example+foo@gmail.com</a>=E2=80=9D, and =
=E2=80=9C<a href=3D"mailto:example%2Bbar@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">examp=
le+bar@gmail.com</a>=E2=80=9D onto BOTH local accounts, since they understa=
nd that they are all just aliases <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,2=
55,0)">for the same
 account</span> on Google=E2=80=99s side.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">--=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">Annabelle Richard Backman<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">AWS Identity<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: =
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Id-event &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:id-event-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">id-event-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Adam Dawes &lt;adawes=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40goo=
gle.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, November 9, 2018 at 5:58 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Dick Hardt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Yaron Sheffer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yaronf.ietf@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">yaronf.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, ID Events Mailing List &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:id-event@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">id-event@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;, Phil Hunt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">=
phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Id-event] stab at describing email canonicalization dr=
agons<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:58 PM Dick Hardt &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf=
c5321" target=3D"_blank">RFC5321</a>=C2=A0describes a valid email address, =
it is not canonical.=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Adam: in my experience, we strip the dots in gmail a=
ddresses, since we have learned that is what Google does. :)<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As to the &#39;+&#39; functionality, some parties ma=
y use that to know it is the same subject at the host. For example, if merc=
hantfoo subscribed to receive events for subject=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:ali=
ce.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com=
</span></a>=C2=A0from
<a href=3D"http://mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">mailprovider.com</a>,=
 then <a href=3D"http://mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">
mailprovider.com</a> would canonicalize the subject to=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=
=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith@mailprovider.c=
om</span></a>.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">While merchantfoo would use=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprov=
ider.com</span></a>=C2=A0for sending email, it would
 likely be useful for merchantfoo to know that=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto=
:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">alicesmith@mailprovider.com</span>=
</a>=C2=A0and=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailp=
rovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Hel=
vetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0are
 the same subject from a SET point of view. For example, if merchantfoo is =
attempting to find mutual subjects with a non-email provider,
<a href=3D"http://socialfoo.com" target=3D"_blank">socialfoo.com</a>, then =
they would ideally both use=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerc=
hantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;fo=
nt-family:Helvetica">alicesmith@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0even
 though Alice had provided=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerch=
antfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica">alicesmith+merchantfoo@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=
=A0to merchantfoor and=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith%2Bmerchantf=
oo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-fa=
mily:Helvetica">alicesmith+socialfoo@mailprovider.com</span></a>=C2=A0to
 socialfoo.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Exactly right<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the WG meeting there was a discussion about stand=
ardizing canonicalization, and the consensus in the meeting was that was ou=
t of scope, but that it was important to call out the issue.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">+1=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is useful to alert implementers that these issues=
 exist. As for solving the deeper problem, I was curious about whether that=
 was being contemplated. But it seems that is out of scope. Not surprised. =
Always more things to do in the future!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 2:28 AM Phil Hunt &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Why is=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc5321" target=3D"_blank">RFC5321</a>=C2=A0not sufficient to define canonic=
alization for email addresses?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Phil<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Oracle Corporation, Clou=
d Security and Identity Architect<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">@independentid<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.in=
dependentid.com" target=3D"_blank">www.independentid.com</a><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:phil.h=
unt@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Adam Dawes &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:adawes=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">adawes=
=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
I think it does make sense to do the same canonicalization for SETs. But I =
suspect that most canonicalization that apps do is purely focused on proper=
 lower casing. I would be more surprised
 if apps canonicalize on special characters like .,+ etc. I don&#39;t know =
as if there are any guidance in the mail RFCs on how to treat these so I th=
ink there are inconsistent treatments from mail providers. Some apps may un=
derstand the conventions of larger mail
 providers but I suspect you&#39;re still going to have discrepancies that =
are hard to iron out without fully understanding the mail provider&#39;s ca=
nonicalization scheme. And some users expect that their mail will not be ca=
noncialized. For example, Gmail provides
 the=C2=A0+ character so that a user can give unique addresses to each reci=
pient<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-402268=
5882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:alice.sm=
ith%2Bmerchantfoo@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">alice.smith+merchantf=
oo@mailprovider.com</a>.
 If merchantfoo stripped the=C2=A0+ in canonicalizing, then Alice wouldn&#3=
9;t be able to manage mail from merchantfoo as easily.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 4:40 PM Dick Hardt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
Hey Adam
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
The problem you are describing is what I was attempting to capture. Since A=
lice<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://urldefen=
se.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=
=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4Dpc=
tyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ=
&amp;s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_b=
lank">mailprovider.com</a><span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m457878=
9731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>remov=
es
 dots,<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-40226=
85882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;=
c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4Dp=
ctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSA=
Q&amp;s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_=
blank">merchantfoo.com</a>likely
 has already figured out<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m45787897=
31336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprover.com&am=
p;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna=
5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtX=
DG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&amp;s=3DmTGYSlxU_pijrujTDzx_q4j1xTpayjPz1xP5ykoqoUE&amp;=
e=3D" target=3D"_blank">mailprover.com</a>&#39;s
 canonicalization since Alice can enter=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith@=
mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">alice.smith@mailprovider.com</a>=C2=A0o=
r=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">al=
icesmith@mailprovider.com</a>=C2=A0at any site and receive email.
 The suggested text says<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m45787897=
31336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&a=
mp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dn=
a5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_Ut=
XDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&amp;s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&amp=
;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">merchantfoo.com</a><span class=3D"gmail-m_54393602=
06781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span>SHOULD
 do the same canonicalization for email subject identifiers that it already=
 does with emails entered by the user.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
Does that make sense? Suggested changes to the text?<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 4:52 AM Adam Dawes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adawes@goog=
le.com" target=3D"_blank">adawes@google.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
I think this makes sense. However, I wanted to point out that there&#39;s a=
 higher level problem in that the Transmitter is providing it&#39;s canonic=
alized identifier in the SET and this may
 not map to the receiver&#39;s canonicalized identifier.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
For example, Alice may have registered<span class=3D"gmail-m_54393602067810=
52569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span><a href=3D"mailto:alice.smith@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">al=
ice.smith@mailprovider.com</a><span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m45=
78789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>w=
ith<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-40226858=
82050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://urldefens=
e.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=
=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4Dpc=
tyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ=
&amp;s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_b=
lank">merchantfoo.com</a>..
 When<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-402268=
5882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://urldefe=
nse.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;=
c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4Dp=
ctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSA=
Q&amp;s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_=
blank">mailprovider.com</a><span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m45787=
89731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>send=
s
 a SET to<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-40=
22685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://url=
defense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__merchantfoo.com&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&a=
mp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy=
4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunb=
iSAQ&amp;s=3DqahNhm16UDRRS_UUpED01a4hitmqBooQzfA3JD2vy60&amp;e=3D" target=
=3D"_blank">merchantfoo.com</a>,
 it could be for<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879=
722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mail=
to:alicesmith@mailprovider.com" target=3D"_blank">alicesmith@mailprovider.c=
om</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
merchantfoo can&#39;t effectively remap the event to the proper account on =
their side without first knowing<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m=
4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span=
><a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovi=
der.com&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&=
amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09Z=
Hko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&amp;s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_A=
TiQUw&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">mailprovider.com</a>&#39;s
 canonicalization scheme. I&#39;m not sure what can be done about this abse=
nt some way for<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m45787897313368797=
22m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https=
://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__mailprovider.com&amp;d=3DD=
wMFaQ&amp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTW=
manqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQP=
wyIPunbiSAQ&amp;s=3DF9XcVxZrstLIf13zRwwlhtR3tE6bD_QCVYck_ATiQUw&amp;e=3D" t=
arget=3D"_blank">mailprovider.com</a><span class=3D"gmail-m_543936020678105=
2569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0<=
/span>to
 advertise its canonicalization scheme. Is there a suggestion to do that?<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 2:29 AM Dick Hardt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
Agreed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 5:27 PM Yaron Sheffer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yaronf.i=
etf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">yaronf.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
Looks good, and I think this is a normative SHOULD.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m45787=
89731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>Yaro=
n<br>
<br>
On 08/11/2018 17:07, Dick Hardt wrote:<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; Many email providers will treat the following email addresses as equiv=
alent:<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:johnsmith=
@example.com" target=3D"_blank">johnsmith@example.com</a><span class=3D"gma=
il-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-conv=
erted-space">=C2=A0</span>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:johnsmith@example.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">johnsmith@example.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:JOHNSMITH=
@EXAMPLE..COM" target=3D"_blank">JOHNSMITH@EXAMPLE.COM</a><span class=3D"gm=
ail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-con=
verted-space">=C2=A0</span>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:JOHNSMITH@EXAMPLE.C=
OM" target=3D"_blank">JOHNSMITH@EXAMPLE.COM</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:JohnSmith=
@example.com" target=3D"_blank">JohnSmith@example.com</a><span class=3D"gma=
il-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-conv=
erted-space">=C2=A0</span>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:JohnSmith@example.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">JohnSmith@example.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:john.smit=
h@example.com" target=3D"_blank">john.smith@example.com</a><span class=3D"g=
mail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685882050799111apple-co=
nverted-space">=C2=A0</span>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:john.smith@example=
.com" target=3D"_blank">john.smith@example.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; This has led users to view these strings as equivalent, and has led to=
<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-40226858820=
50799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; email address canonicalization algorithms that are implementations<spa=
n class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-402268588205079=
9111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; specific, so that user entered email addresses resolve to the same<spa=
n class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-402268588205079=
9111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; canonical string.=C2=A0 When receiving an email identifier, the recipi=
ent<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-40226858=
82050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; should use their implementation&#39;s canonicalization algorithm to re=
solve<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-402268=
5882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; to the same subject identifier string used in their system.<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Id-event mailing list<br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:Id-event@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Id-event@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://urldefen=
se.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_id-2De=
vent&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp=
;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko=
6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&amp;s=3D4a2fxkjOZSARRKA7He56h0TuV6oAPK3SRRpCJXszW=
5U&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-eve=
nt</a><br>
&gt;<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-4022685=
882050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
_______________________________________________<br>
Id-event mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Id-event@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Id-event@ietf..org</=
a><br>
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.=
org_mailman_listinfo_id-2Devent&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3DRoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8=
PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&amp;r=3Dna5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA=
&amp;m=3D3R8Gzz4c6jGa09ZHko6Ek_UtXDG8oyQPwyIPunbiSAQ&amp;s=3D4a2fxkjOZSARRK=
A7He56h0TuV6oAPK3SRRpCJXszW5U&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/id-event</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
--<span class=3D"gmail-m_5439360206781052569m4578789731336879722m-402268588=
2050799111apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(85,85,85);border:1.5pt solid rgb(213,15,37);padding:2pt">A=
dam Dawes=C2=A0|</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(85,85,85);border:1.5pt solid rgb(51,105,232);padding:2pt">=
=C2=A0Sr.
 Product Manager=C2=A0|</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif;color:rgb(85,85,85);border:1.5pt solid rgb(0,153,57);padding:=
2pt">=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:adawes@google.com" target=3D"_blank">adawes@go=
ogle.com</a>=C2=A0|</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif;color:rgb(85,85,85);border:1.5pt solid rgb(238,178,17);padding:2p=
t">=C2=A0<span>+1
 <span id=3D"gc-number-1286" class=3D"gc-cs-link" title=3D"Call with Google=
 Voice">650-214-2410</span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font=
-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(85,85,85)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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To: SecEvent <id-event@ietf.org>
From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: [Id-event] WGLC for draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03 - delayed
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    Dear SecEvent members,<br>
    <br>
    There were no responses to the working group last call on
    draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-03. We will not send the document to
    IESG unless there is clear working group consensus behind it. We are
    planning to start a second WGLC after the new year. If we have WG
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    document outside the working group.<br>
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    </p>
    <p>Thanks,</p>
         Dick and Yaron
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From nobody Mon Dec 17 13:55:00 2018
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Subject: [Id-event] JWT claim name in draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers?
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During the meeting in Bangkok I asked about whether this document should
define a JWT claim for subject identifier and said I'd followup on the list
with the question. It took me a while to get to that but here it is.

Some background behind the question is that I was working on some examples
for the draft OpenID Connect Client Initiated Backchannel Authentication
<https://openid.net/specs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authenticatio=
n-core-1_0.html>
specification and there was a place where a subject identifier in a JWT
seemed like a good fit for one of the examples (where the calling client
makes a request that has have some way of identifying the end-user and in a
token is one such way). So I consulted
draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifi=
ers-02>
to see how to do it and was somewhat surprised to find that there wasn't a
JWT claim name defined to carry the subject identifier. I ended up using
"subject" in the login_hint_token parameter at the end of
https://openid.net/specs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authentication=
-core-1_0.html#auth_request
because it seemed the closest thing to convention there was.

But that left me wondering why draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02
hadn't defined a claim and whether maybe it should. Or, if not, whether
maybe a bit of explanation as to why not might be useful and/or some
guidance to users of subject-identifiers or specifications using or
profiling it about the need to agree on a claim name that will carry the
subject identifier value.


On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:06 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Security Events WG of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : Subject Identifiers for Security Event Tokens
>         Authors         : Annabelle Backman
>                           Marius Scurtescu
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02.txt
>         Pages           : 10
>         Date            : 2018-10-23
>
> Abstract:
>    Security events communicated within Security Event Tokens may support
>    a variety of identifiers to identify the subject and/or other
>    principals related to the event.  This specification formalizes the
>    notion of subject identifiers as named sets of well-defined claims
>    describing the subject, a mechanism for representing subject
>    identifiers within a [JSON] object such as a JSON Web Token [JWT] or
>    Security Event Token [SET], and a registry for defining and
>    allocating names for these claim sets.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identif=
iers-02
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifie=
rs-02
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Id-event mailing list
> Id-event@ietf.org
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">During the meeting in Bangkok I asked about whether this document should=
 define a JWT claim for subject identifier and said I&#39;d followup on the=
 list with the question. It took me a while to get to that but here it is. =
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div>Some background behind the questi=
on is that I was working on some examples for the draft <a href=3D"https://=
openid.net/specs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authentication-core-1_=
0.html" target=3D"_blank">OpenID Connect Client Initiated Backchannel Authe=
ntication</a> specification and there was a place where a subject identifie=
r in a JWT seemed like a good fit for one of the examples (where the callin=
g client makes a request that has have some way of identifying the end-user=
 and in a token is one such way). So I consulted <a href=3D"https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02</a>=
 to see how to do it and was somewhat surprised to find that there wasn&#39=
;t a JWT claim name defined to carry the subject identifier. I ended up usi=
ng &quot;subject&quot; in the login_hint_token parameter at the end of <a h=
ref=3D"https://openid.net/specs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authent=
ication-core-1_0.html#auth_request" target=3D"_blank">https://openid.net/sp=
ecs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authentication-core-1_0.html#auth_r=
equest</a> because it seemed the closest thing to convention there was. <br=
></div><div><br></div><div>But that left me wondering why draft-ietf-seceve=
nt-subject-identifiers-02 hadn&#39;t defined a claim and whether maybe it s=
hould. Or, if not, whether maybe a bit of explanation as to why not might b=
e useful and/or some guidance to users of subject-identifiers or specificat=
ions using or profiling it about the need to agree on a claim name that wil=
l carry the subject identifier value. <br></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:06 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Security Events WG of the IETF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Subject Identifiers for Security Event Tokens<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Anna=
belle Backman<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Marius Scurtescu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-secevent-subject-identifiers-02.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 10<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2018-10-23<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Security events communicated within Security Event Tokens may =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a variety of identifiers to identify the subject and/or other<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0principals related to the event.=C2=A0 This specification form=
alizes the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0notion of subject identifiers as named sets of well-defined cl=
aims<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0describing the subject, a mechanism for representing subject<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identifiers within a [JSON] object such as a JSON Web Token [J=
WT] or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Security Event Token [SET], and a registry for defining and<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allocating names for these claim sets.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-ide=
ntifiers/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifi=
ers-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subjec=
t-identifiers-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-secevent-subject-=
identifiers-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/r=
fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-secevent-subject-identifiers-02</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Id-event mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Id-event@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Id-event@ietf.org</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></div>

<br>
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Subject: [Id-event] secevent - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 104
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Yaron Sheffer, a Chair of the secevent working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Security Events
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Yaron Sheffer

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: saag dispatch oauth tokbind tls acme secdispatch
 Second Priority: ipsecme sacm ace



People who must be present:
  Yaron Sheffer
  Dick Hardt
  Benjamin Kaduk

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  Please avoid conflict with CFRG
---------------------------------------------------------

