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From: Tim Cappalli <Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com>
To: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@independentid.com>, Atul Tulshibagwale <atultulshi=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: ID Events Mailing List <id-event@ietf.org>, Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Id-event] Subject Categories in Subject Identifiers
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:44:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] Subject Categories in Subject Identifiers
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From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@independentid.com>
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To: Tim Cappalli <Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: [Id-event] Subject Categories in Subject Identifiers
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	charset=utf-8

Tim,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I worry bringing multi-subject dimensionality to SET could have a lot of =
negative consequences.  This is similar to the discussion we had in the =
WG about bundling multiple event URIs in the same SET and the complexity =
that might cause.

I think there is a PII concern that the RP can correlate multiple =
identifiers it might not know about. Having only 1 subject identifier =
implies sender and receiver have a mutual understanding about the =
subject that was likely previously authorized by the subject.

Introducing multiple subjects may introduce binding artifacts that =
undermine the idea that shared signals enables cross-domain decoupling.  =
Multiplicity may introduce permutation and combination effects upon the =
receiver that may not be workable.=20

If you think it is important to express the idea that a series of SETs =
are in fact related (e.g. all items related to a user are revoked =
including sessions, tokens, authorization, are to be revoked), the =
=E2=80=9Ctxn=E2=80=9D claim can be used for this purpose. =E2=80=9Ctxn=E2=80=
=9D lets an issuer indicate that a set of Events stem from the same =
transaction (aka event).

Phillip Hunt
phil.hunt@independentid.com



> On Aug 11, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Tim Cappalli <Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hey Phil, sorry for the delay on this. We've been discussing this in =
the OpenID SSE group as well.
>=20
> We have concerns about receivers/RPs in CAEP/RISC needing to =
understand what are essentially identical event types just to delineate =
a user vs a device subject (as an example). There are also scalability =
concerns with having to send multiple events to convery this =
information. The scale we're talking about here is hundreds of millions =
of "subjects" (users, devices, sessions, applications, workloads).
>=20
> For a basic revocation use case, if we don't have the ability to =
include multiple subjects and include a subject category, instead of an =
RP/receiver needing to know about a single event type of =
"all-sessions-revoked", we now need a minimum of 4 event types =
(device-session-revoked, user-session-revoked, session-revoked, =
all-sessions-revoked). This grows exponentially with new event types and =
makes it difficult to maintain in large scale environments with =
thousands of RPs/receivers.
>=20
>=20
> We had discussed potentially using the subject_alias option, but we =
can't due to the user and device not being the same "entity".
> 3.5 > "Each Subject Identifier in the array MUST identify the same =
entity."
>=20
> Here's an example of what we're trying to signal:
>=20
> {
>   "iss": =
"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/ =
<https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/>",
>   "jti": "756E69717565206964656E746966696572",
>   "iat": 1597158239,
>   "aud": "https://outlook.office365.com/ =
<https://outlook.office365.com/>",
>   "events": {
>     =
"https://schemas.openid.net/secevent/caep/event-type/all-sessions-revoked =
<https://schemas.openid.net/secevent/caep/event-type/all-sessions-revoked>=
": {
>       "subject": [
>         {
>           "subject_type": "email",
>           "email": "tim@microsoft.com <mailto:tim@microsoft.com>",
>           "subject_category": "user"
>         },
>         {
>           "subject_type": "iss-sub",
>           "iss": =
"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/ =
<https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/>",
>           "sub": "404ea68b-8b82-4e8c-876e-e936995238a3",
>           "subject_category": "device"
>         },
>         {
>           "subject_type": "iss-sub",
>           "iss": =
"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/ =
<https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/>",
>           "sub": "07bdd8df-3bcd-4562-9ffc-5e355f7e8ba1",
>           "subject_category": "device"
>         },
>         {
>           "subject_type": "iss-sub",
>           "iss": =
"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/ =
<https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/>",
>           "sub": "573d9c1c-b4e0-4cac-8927-6d43691fa898",
>           "subject_category": "user"
>         }
>       ]
>     }
>   }
> }
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Proposal:
>=20
> Add a subject category with the following defined options:
> user
> device
> session
> application
> workload
>=20
> If multiple subjects are present, it is expected that the event =
applies to all of the subjects to the extent that it makes sense to the =
event type.
>=20
>=20
> Open question and discussion items:
>=20
> 1) Can "subject" be an array of multiple subjects that are not the =
same entity?
>=20
> 1a) If so, how should alias be combined with multiple subjects? In the =
example above, both user subjects would be aliases of each other.
>=20
> 2) If no category is provided, what should be the default?
>=20
> tim
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: Id-event <id-event-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:id-event-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Phil Hunt =
<phil.hunt@independentid.com <mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com>>
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 17:55
> To: Atul Tulshibagwale <atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
> Cc: ID Events Mailing List <id-event@ietf.org =
<mailto:id-event@ietf.org>>; Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com =
<mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Id-event] Subject Categories in Subject Identifiers
> =20
> Why is the category not part of the eventuri / event definition?  Why =
have one event that applies to a session, a device, a person, and an =
account at the same time as opposed to 4 different event uris?
>=20
> It feels like you may be trying define a  combined, multi-purpose =
event to cover many actual events. Is that the goal?
>=20
> My expectation for defining SETs and eventuris was that the eventuri =
conveys 90% of the information content of a SET. The subject identifier =
indicates who or what the event is about and the occasional use of =
payload claims to provide =E2=80=9Cuseful=E2=80=9D additional =
information (like a counter).  E.g. if you want to convey how many =
account resets and not just the fact the account was reset. It makes =
sense to re-use the same URI even though the actions taken on the 3rd =
reset might be different then on the first.
>=20
> IMO, a wide number of event uris paired with lightweight SETs means =
policy systems and SET routers can make quick decisions on where and how =
to act upon an event for a particular subject.
>=20
> Phillip Hunt
> phil.hunt@independentid.com <mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Atul Tulshibagwale =
<atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
>>=20
>> To address Mike's point I'm clarifying the proposal syntax here.
>>=20
>> I'm proposing that we add a "categories" claim to subject =
identifiers, regardless of the subject-identifier type (i.e. a common =
claim), with the following text:
>> Subject
>>  Categories
>>=20
>>    Subjects
>>  may be categorized as users, devices or sessions.  To
>>    specify
>>  the category of a subject, a "category" claim MAY be
>>    included.=20
>>  If present, the claim MUST have a value that is one of:
>>=20
>>    user=20
>>  Specifies that the subject category is a user.
>>=20
>>    device=20
>>  Specifies that the subject category is a device.
>>=20
>>    session=20
>>  Specifies that the subject category is a session.
>>=20
>> To address Dick's question:
>> I suppose one could think of it either way. I am neutral to adding it =
within subject identifiers or at a higher-level in the event that =
includes the subject identifier claim. This was also a point of =
discussion in the SSE working group, so I'll let others comment on this. =
This may be dropped if no one has strong reasons to include it in the =
subject identifiers claim.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Atul
>>=20
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:25 AM Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com =
<mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Atul
>>=20
>> I don't follow why this statement is true:
>>=20
>> "Since this is a property of the subject rather than the event"
>>=20
>> I would come to the opposite conclusion.
>>=20
>> =E1=90=A7
>>=20
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:10 AM Atul Tulshibagwale =
<atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Subject Identifiers will be used in various specifications about =
events pertaining to those subject identifiers. In order to determine =
the scope of the event, it is important to know what the transmitter of =
the event that includes the subject identifier refers to.
>>=20
>> For example, when a subject identifier specifies a phone number as =
the identifier, is the transmitter of the event that includes such a =
subject identifier specifying the user or the device represented by the =
subject identifier.
>>=20
>> Since this is a property of the subject rather than the event, it =
should be logically included in the subject identifier spec. Therefore, =
I'm proposing that we include a "subject category" claim within the =
subject identifier. The subject category could have one of the following =
values:
>> User
>> Device
>> Session
>> The above values are sufficient for the SSE profile, but other values =
may be possible (although such a possibility is not a part of my =
proposal =
<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu=
b.com%2Frichanna%2Fsecevent%2Fpull%2F1&data=3D02%7C01%7Ctim.cappalli%40mic=
rosoft.com%7C7bcfca04cdaa4d4e5a8708d8277794dc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd0=
11db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302741847522566&sdata=3DY6lYo3GB6OZ2Nl661DPdAqcdKk%2BS=
VOxXOjbGL%2FWSX84%3D&reserved=3D0>)..
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Atul
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Id-event mailing list
>> Id-event@ietf.org <mailto:Id-event@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event =
<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i=
etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fid-event&data=3D02%7C01%7Ctim.cappalli%40mi=
crosoft.com%7C7bcfca04cdaa4d4e5a8708d8277794dc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd=
011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302741847532516&sdata=3DTsKEtiF7LqED8Cqqx9T0ZFIRtBZaB=
z1dSt02gtMWAA4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Id-event@ietf.org <mailto:Id-event@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event =
<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i=
etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fid-event&data=3D02%7C01%7Ctim.cappalli%40mi=
crosoft.com%7C7bcfca04cdaa4d4e5a8708d8277794dc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd=
011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302741847532516&sdata=3DTsKEtiF7LqED8Cqqx9T0ZFIRtBZaB=
z1dSt02gtMWAA4%3D&reserved=3D0>
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event>

--Apple-Mail=_7088B8B7-ED93-4C6C-9380-FC6890171A2E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Tim,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks=
 for getting back to me.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I worry bringing multi-subject dimensionality to SET could =
have a lot of negative consequences. &nbsp;This is similar to the =
discussion we had in the WG about bundling multiple event URIs in the =
same SET and the complexity that might cause.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think there is a PII concern that the =
RP can correlate multiple identifiers it might not know about. Having =
only 1 subject identifier implies sender and receiver have a mutual =
understanding about the subject that was likely previously authorized by =
the subject.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Introducing multiple subjects may introduce binding artifacts =
that undermine the idea that shared signals enables cross-domain =
decoupling. &nbsp;Multiplicity may introduce permutation and combination =
effects upon the receiver that may not be workable.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If you think it is =
important to express the idea that a series of SETs are in fact related =
(e.g. all items related to a user are revoked including sessions, =
tokens, authorization, are to be revoked), the =E2=80=9Ctxn=E2=80=9D =
claim can be used for this purpose. =E2=80=9Ctxn=E2=80=9D lets an issuer =
indicate that a set of Events stem from the same transaction (aka =
event).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<div>Phillip Hunt</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com"=
 class=3D"">phil.hunt@independentid.com</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 11, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Tim Cappalli &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com" =
class=3D"">Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Hey Phil, =
sorry for the delay on this. We've been discussing this in the OpenID =
SSE group as well.<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
 class=3D"">We have concerns about receivers/RPs in CAEP/RISC needing to =
understand what are essentially identical event types just to delineate =
a user vs a device subject (as an example). There are also scalability =
concerns with having to send multiple events to convery this =
information. The scale we're talking about here is hundreds of millions =
of "subjects" (users, devices, sessions, applications, =
workloads).</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">For =
a basic revocation use case, if we don't have the ability to include =
multiple subjects and include a subject category, instead of an =
RP/receiver needing to know about a single event type of =
"all-sessions-revoked", we now need a minimum of 4 event types =
(device-session-revoked, user-session-revoked, session-revoked, =
all-sessions-revoked). This grows exponentially with new event types and =
makes it difficult to maintain in large scale environments with =
thousands of RPs/receivers.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We had discussed =
potentially using the subject_alias option, but we can't due to the user =
and device not being the same "entity".</div></div><blockquote =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; margin: 0px 0px =
0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">3.5 &gt; "Each Subject Identifier in the =
array MUST identify the same =
entity."</span></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Here's an example of what we're trying to signal:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">{</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "iss": "<a =
href=3D"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/" =
class=3D"">https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/</=
a>",</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "jti": =
"756E69717565206964656E746966696572",</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
"iat": 1597158239,</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:=
 Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; "aud": "<a =
href=3D"https://outlook.office365.com/" =
class=3D"">https://outlook.office365.com/</a>",</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; "events": {</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; "<a =
href=3D"https://schemas.openid.net/secevent/caep/event-type/all-sessions-r=
evoked" =
class=3D"">https://schemas.openid.net/secevent/caep/event-type/all-session=
s-revoked</a>": {</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"subject": [</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
{</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"subject_type": "email",</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "email": "<a href=3D"mailto:tim@microsoft.com"=
 class=3D"">tim@microsoft.com</a>",</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "subject_category": "user"</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; },</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; {</span></div><div class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "subject_type": "iss-sub",</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "iss": "<a =
href=3D"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/" =
class=3D"">https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/</=
a>",</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"sub": "404ea68b-8b82-4e8c-876e-e936995238a3",</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "subject_category": =
"device"</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
},</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
{</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"subject_type": "iss-sub",</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "iss": "<a =
href=3D"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/" =
class=3D"">https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/</=
a>",</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"sub": "07bdd8df-3bcd-4562-9ffc-5e355f7e8ba1",</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "subject_category": =
"device"</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
},</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
{</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"subject_type": "iss-sub",</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "iss": "<a =
href=3D"https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/" =
class=3D"">https://sts.windows.net/2d1ae189-3d85-44cf-8437-26fba424feaf/</=
a>",</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
"sub": "573d9c1c-b4e0-4cac-8927-6d43691fa898",</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "subject_category": =
"user"</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
}</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ]</span></div><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; }</span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Consolas, Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
}</span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Consolas, =
Courier, monospace;" class=3D"">}</span></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Proposal:</b></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Add a subject category =
with the following defined options:</div></div><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><ul class=3D""><li =
class=3D"">user</li><li class=3D"">device</li><li =
class=3D"">session</li><li class=3D"">application</li><li =
class=3D"">workload</li></ul></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If multiple subjects are present, it is =
expected that the event applies to all of the subjects to the extent =
that it makes sense to the event type.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Open question and discussion items:</b></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1) Can "subject" be an =
array of multiple subjects that are not the same entity?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><blockquote style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: =
0px;" class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">1a) If so, how =
should alias be combined with multiple subjects? In the example above, =
both user subjects would be aliases of each other.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">2) If no category is provided, what should be the =
default?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">tim</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div id=3D"appendonsend" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""></div><hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; width: 700.6875px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><div =
id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Id-event &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:id-event-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">id-event-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Phil Hunt =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@independentid.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, July 13, 2020 =
17:55<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Atul Tulshibagwale &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>ID Events Mailing List =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:id-event@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">id-event@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Dick Hardt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Id-event] Subject =
Categories in Subject Identifiers</font><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; line-break: =
after-white-space;">Why is the category not part of the eventuri / event =
definition? &nbsp;Why have one event that applies to a session, a =
device, a person, and an account at the same time as opposed to 4 =
different event uris?<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">It feels like you may be trying define a &nbsp;combined, =
multi-purpose event to cover many actual events. Is that the goal?<br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">My =
expectation for defining SETs and eventuris was that the eventuri =
conveys 90% of the information content of a SET. The subject identifier =
indicates who or what the event is about and the occasional use of =
payload claims to provide =E2=80=9Cuseful=E2=80=9D additional =
information (like a counter). &nbsp;E.g. if you want to convey how many =
account resets and not just the fact the account was reset. It makes =
sense to re-use the same URI even though the actions taken on the 3rd =
reset might be different then on the first.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">IMO, a wide number of event uris paired =
with lightweight SETs means policy systems and SET routers can make =
quick decisions on where and how to act upon an event for a particular =
subject.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Phillip Hunt</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com" =
class=3D"">phil.hunt@independentid.com</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"x_Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 13, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Atul Tulshibagwale &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">atultulshi=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"x_Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">To address Mike's point I'm clarifying the =
proposal syntax&nbsp;here.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I'm proposing that we add a "categories" claim to subject =
identifiers, regardless of the subject-identifier type (i.e. a common =
claim), with the following text:</div><div class=3D""><span =
id=3D"x_gmail-docs-internal-guid-bd0f4fdf-7fff-aa52-9d13-1993cc235fcf" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; =
margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: &quot;Roboto Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: =
transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: =
normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Subject
 Categories</span></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; font-family: &quot;Roboto =
Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: transparent; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
vertical-align: baseline; white-space: =
pre-wrap;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Subjects
 may be categorized as users, devices or sessions.&nbsp; =
To</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: =
0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: &quot;Roboto Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: =
transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: =
normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: =
pre-wrap;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specify
 the category of a subject, a "category" claim MAY be</span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: =
0pt;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; font-family: =
&quot;Roboto Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: transparent; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
vertical-align: baseline; white-space: =
pre-wrap;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;included.&nbsp;
 If present, the claim MUST have a value that is one of:</span></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; =
margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: &quot;Roboto Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: =
transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: =
normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: =
pre-wrap;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;user&nbsp;
 Specifies that the subject category is a user.</span></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; =
margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: &quot;Roboto Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: =
transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: =
normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: =
pre-wrap;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;device&nbsp;
 Specifies that the subject category is a device.</span></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; =
margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 8pt; =
font-family: &quot;Roboto Mono&quot;, monospace; background-color: =
transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: =
normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: =
pre-wrap;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;session&nbsp;
 Specifies that the subject category is a =
session.</span></div></span><br =
class=3D"x_gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div class=3D"">To =
address Dick's question:</div><div class=3D"">I suppose one could think =
of it either way. I am neutral to adding it within subject identifiers =
or at a higher-level in the event that includes the subject identifier =
claim. This was also a point of discussion in the SSE working group, so =
I'll let others comment on this. This may be dropped if no one has =
strong reasons to include it in the subject identifiers claim.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div =
class=3D"">Atul</div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"x_gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Mon, =
Jul 13, 2020 at 11:25 AM Dick Hardt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dick.hardt@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">dick.hardt@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Hi&nbsp;Atul<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I don't follow why this statement is =
true:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">"Since =
this is a property of the subject rather than the event"</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I would come to the =
opposite conclusion.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div =
hspace=3D"streak-pt-mark" class=3D"" style=3D"max-height: 1px;"><img =
alt=3D"" class=3D"" =
src=3D"https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=3DaZGljay5oYXJkdEBnbWFpbC5j=
b20%3D&amp;type=3Dzerocontent&amp;guid=3Da0c347c8-a1ba-4e79-9053-3777ea432=
a51" style=3D"width: 0px; max-height: 0px; overflow: hidden;"><font =
color=3D"#ffffff" size=3D"1" class=3D"">=E1=90=A7</font></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"x_gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:10 AM Atul =
Tulshibagwale &lt;atultulshi=3D<a =
href=3D"mailto:40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Hi all,<div class=3D"">Subject Identifiers will =
be used in various specifications about events pertaining to those =
subject identifiers. In order to determine the scope of the event, it is =
important&nbsp;to know what the transmitter of the event that includes =
the subject identifier refers to.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">For example, when a subject identifier =
specifies a phone number as the identifier, is the transmitter of the =
event that includes such a subject identifier specifying the user or the =
device represented by the subject identifier.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Since this is a property of the subject =
rather than the event, it should be logically included in the subject =
identifier spec. Therefore, I'm proposing that we include a "subject =
category" claim within the subject identifier. The subject category =
could have one of the following values:</div><div class=3D""><ul =
class=3D""><li class=3D""><b class=3D"">User</b></li><li class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Device</b></li><li class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Session</b></li></ul><div class=3D"">The above values are =
sufficient for the SSE profile, but other values may be possible =
(although such a possibility is not a part of my<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fgithub.com%2Frichanna%2Fsecevent%2Fpull%2F1&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Ctim.cap=
palli%40microsoft.com%7C7bcfca04cdaa4d4e5a8708d8277794dc%7C72f988bf86f141a=
f91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302741847522566&amp;sdata=3DY6lYo3GB6OZ2Nl6=
61DPdAqcdKk%2BSVOxXOjbGL%2FWSX84%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" =
originalsrc=3D"https://github.com/richanna/secevent/pull/1" =
shash=3D"qAwMZ0tQHeK1o0NidfG7itkTWLpSJZw6EI20CZTnEB1q4tW6cDmSMXnn+ufqZTFdz=
85pqFBBJB06+E/nBjjkYQu6216nkSWWJs4M/llAkRbKZ++auilRjbFaSViHxPQepVYF8Z8OSiD=
nR2VNiGUiIkRdHFDL9rwLHn6Jq1rYvz8=3D" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">proposal</a>)..</div></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div =
class=3D"">Atul</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br =
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Wtapy0kXovsJVcSezU6YUjBgPgC9XXRtwilQnB7Ib9cWQRxLoC2ExhYW3u7uAjevxW1c3Z2NNk=
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Hi all,
As agreed on the SSE call yesterday, I'd like to present a use-case where I
believe subject categories within a subject identifier are useful. I
encourage others to also send such emails in advance of the call next
Tuesday, so that there's more clarity on the viewpoints and use-cases.

My use case:
Say a SSE Transmitter wants to signal that the authentication for a certain
user on a certain device has weakened (due to some change initiated,
observed or inferred by the transmitter). The user may have authenticated
to many devices, and one device may have sessions for multiple users.

In this case, the possibilities for conveying such information through an
event are:

   1. Include two subject identifiers in a single event. The SSE spec can
   define that when multiple subjects are present within the same event, the
   subject is identified as an "AND" of all such subject identifiers. This was
   a point of confusion in yesterday's call, but I believe this can be
   clarified in the specification and will not be a point of confusion once
   clarified. Each subject identifier specifies the category that it applies
   to. (i.e, one subject identifier is for the user category and another for
   the device category)
   2. Define the "authentication status change" event such that it can take
   multiple optional fields. A field can be "user", another can be "device"

Sending multiple events, one with a user subject and another with a device
subject is not really a choice because it will mean the first event applies
to everywhere the user is logged in to, and the second event applies to all
users logged into the device.

Having the subject category will help if the user is identified by the
subject identifier type "phone number", to clarify that the subject refers
to the user and not the device.

Option 1 is better because it is independent of the event type. Processing
multiple subject identifiers with a well defined combination semantics will
help identify subjects that the event applies to in advance of processing
the specific event.

Option 2 intertwines the logic of event processing with subject
identification and can cause an implementer to have more code that differs
slightly in handling each event that has multiple subject possibilities.

Atul

--0000000000005771a805ad3ed88c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<br><div>As agreed on the SSE call yesterday, I&#39=
;d like to present a use-case where I believe subject categories within a s=
ubject identifier are useful. I encourage others to also send such emails i=
n advance of the call next Tuesday, so that there&#39;s more clarity on the=
 viewpoints and use-cases.</div><div><br></div><div>My use case:</div><div>=
Say a SSE Transmitter wants to signal that the authentication for a certain=
 user on a certain device has weakened (due to some change initiated, obser=
ved or inferred by the transmitter). The user may have authenticated to man=
y devices, and one device may have sessions for multiple users.</div><div><=
br></div><div>In this case, the possibilities for conveying such informatio=
n through an event are:</div><div><ol><li>Include two subject identifiers i=
n a single event. The SSE spec can define that when multiple subjects are p=
resent within the same event, the subject is identified as an &quot;AND&quo=
t; of all such subject identifiers. This was a point of confusion in yester=
day&#39;s call, but I believe this can be clarified in the specification an=
d will not be a point of confusion once clarified. Each subject identifier =
specifies the category that it applies to. (i.e, one subject identifier is =
for the user category and another for the device category)</li><li>Define t=
he &quot;authentication status change&quot; event such that it can take mul=
tiple optional fields. A field can be &quot;user&quot;, another can be &quo=
t;device&quot;</li></ol><div>Sending multiple events, one with a user subje=
ct and another with a device subject is not really a choice because it will=
 mean the first event applies to everywhere the user is logged in to, and t=
he second event applies to all users logged into the device.</div></div><di=
v><br></div><div>Having the subject category will help if the user is ident=
ified by the subject identifier type &quot;phone number&quot;, to clarify t=
hat the subject refers to the user and not the device.</div><div><br></div>=
<div></div><div>Option 1 is better because it is independent of the event t=
ype. Processing multiple subject identifiers with a well defined combinatio=
n semantics will help identify subjects that the event applies to in advanc=
e of processing the specific event.</div><div><br></div><div>Option 2 inter=
twines the logic of event processing with subject identification and can ca=
use an implementer to have more code that differs slightly in handling each=
 event that has multiple subject possibilities.</div><div><br></div><div>At=
ul</div><div><br></div></div>

--0000000000005771a805ad3ed88c--

