From nobody Fri Sep 1 18:55:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68769132F42 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:55:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K2FzHyjeGJyZ for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x234.google.com (mail-qk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEE3A1343A3 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x234.google.com with SMTP id l65so7391703qkc.0 for ; Fri, 01 Sep 2017 18:55:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ZwtskrgUuQ6yd8IzyyiUYXV2g7FfD0xXs1c5208U2H4=; b=HewMM2xySNq8Gr/WguZILpAAZS+6cB8XsFRrr6b54JWDj6DvQUIEWtitHipE9YynJJ YFmsjtmscp4BoFP5WjxjcEg4r+JHDkY3kyNp930peOgi9Eov0Mnlpv5pD8tDeWdbCv8I b67zNishcua2cnxB2zcdwjIDYd1UqzB/BzqRVxAJdDn4OQEDnM9qh1QkbHQ5TXEFXQII 7PyV5wobHtH84eHWlzF5uHyvv37mOGW2/49tK9GyAFkU5qLj9rgiszua2DYTCzjhlqMC y9VAClYycpz5wI+81MjmMfF6nOsocv/IuzNBpoO8I5FStdZEhE1m8Um3KLSnIt+mTuu/ Rrvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ZwtskrgUuQ6yd8IzyyiUYXV2g7FfD0xXs1c5208U2H4=; b=o8SPLIgGxNuzBndPoqwPPjSYOEtEVyUt95XY7atu632/bxbyxpTwcCIs0mTJdaCleQ bluTkEAPghLJIHvozjF/kh1nBbD9j76XRC2oZCQeJ1Zt1nMgshddbH7GwhjP17H71oPK Fb2oc6J/q9nIlArVffCvtmf61Rq+23RNhnC/JrPDU0FdHFjVBChOMcnJ/peRHdLlV38I wZKOIECWrnusS2haqnOivfOAC4B59uu62Ml4Rvwmx2g+ucDmc8hVljoFfK56W82BwRB8 33Ftk5UMLRGrdA7XcHbt3WMabF+4V4XdUVB8QEjRUtrkfZ3sz1yRyxZFAhWIJjMd1w12 IvzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhtywtTWnpIibBwcqj/yB5RXe63Mj6hq3kFZ2Jt50g7LSc9bWom +ODqlYav2df/XKWcgtxQXWs9/blOJYkb X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7KTsX4Ww/QQcaP67B8YZysDdQIVocr+poygi5X/0AC21R7ynYFgOVA75zB+9JtHPU6TiSEwfl4xaBEbHh6o5M= X-Received: by 10.55.164.134 with SMTP id n128mr5622798qke.145.1504317317737; Fri, 01 Sep 2017 18:55:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.47.106 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:55:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:55:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0763fc5a731805582b2bff" Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 01:55:24 -0000 --94eb2c0763fc5a731805582b2bff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear IDEAS The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the text below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the latest comments and fixing some nits. Thank you all for your feedback and comments. Looking forward to the next milestone Padma IDEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the development of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework include: - Flexibility and extensibility considerations - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated identifiers. - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, update of information for identifiers..) - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80= =A6) - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy. The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will also collaborate with other WG as needed. WG deliverables include: (1) Generic Identity Services Framework (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: - Problem statement - Use cases - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GRIDS). - Applications of the architecture for use cases - Threat model document Milestones January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG November 2018 Recharter --94eb2c0763fc5a731805582b2bff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear IDEAS

The final outcome of the dis= cussions on the alias is reflected in the text below. This version is based= on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the latest comments and fixing some n= its.

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.=

Looking forward to the next milestone
<= br>
Padma



I= DEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D

= =C2=A0

N= etwork solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for pa= cket delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to address= new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapp= ing of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols= are also useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name= to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.=C2=A0=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

T= he IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases.=C2=A0 = The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will = call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the development of solutions.=C2=A0 We refer to the framework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).

= =C2=A0

S= ome of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework include:<= span>

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Flexibility and extensibility considerations

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update (e.g. discover= y, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...)=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

- Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated identifiers.

= =C2=A0

- Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, update= of information for identifiers..)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement needs (e.g. abili= ty to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic for partic= ular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80=A6)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identifier changes= , including their implications on anonymity and privacy.<= /p>

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

T= he IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will also collabo= rate with other WG as needed.

= =C2=A0

W= G deliverables include:

<= span>=C2=A0

(= 1) Generic Identity Services Framework

= =C2=A0

(= 2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

= =C2=A0

T= hese documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a draf= t form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:

= =C2=A0

-= Problem statement

= =C2=A0

-= Use cases

= =C2=A0

- Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution

= =C2=A0

- Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GRI= DS).

= =C2=A0

- Applications of the architecture for use cases

= =C2=A0

-= Threat model document=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

M= ilestones

= =C2=A0

J= anuary 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework

= =C2=A0

J= uly 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework

= =C2=A0

S= eptember 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG

= =C2=A0

No= vember 2018 Recharter

=C2=A0

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SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g05Jkicb-lEP for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 23:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B992126BFD for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 23:00:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=16112; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1504418412; x=1505628012; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=CeecoMDQEagPj6DUZRcGvNp+v1OxPRUnd/YCziEucBk=; b=TDNvPUwwKifxnaSnNowFT+jJ4a6Nxpd+dB0Lr+Cl8uydDjQiEfbDbeHW 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verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2017 05:59:50 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 00:59:50 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 00:59:50 -0500 From: "Victor Moreno (vimoreno)" To: Sam Sun CC: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Thread-Index: AQHTI46OZ0WcUIv0PUmMob0zTr8/xaKhivEzgAEhpxM= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 05:59:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <5u0s47x32il27lvo9gerxjxa.1504356176497@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <5u0s47x32il27lvo9gerxjxa.1504356176497@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DE35D83C1B3640AC8D440459A46A8827ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2017 06:00:14 -0000 --_000_DE35D83C1B3640AC8D440459A46A8827ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 I support this as the charter to put forward. Victor On Sep 2, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Sam Sun > wrote: Padma, The updated charter looks great! Thanks for the relentless effort in putting everything together. Looking fo= rward to the next phase to implement the charter! All the best, Sam -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter From: Padma Pillay-Esnault To: ideas@ietf.org CC: Dear IDEAS The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the text = below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the lates= t comments and fixing some nits. Thank you all for your feedback and comments. Looking forward to the next milestone Padma IDEAS: "IDentity EnAbled networkS" Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are= increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtua= lization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-= locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to di= scover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delive= ry. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locato= r protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastr= ucture and new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements t= hat go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identif= ier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also = useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name to a= set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service = anycast and context-aware IoT queries. The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the = expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use case= s. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and = it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the developm= ent of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of services = as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework i= nclude: - Flexibility and extensibility considerations - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the fr= amework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update= (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated = identifiers. - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, upda= te of information for identifiers..) - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement nee= ds (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding t= raffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis...) - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identif= ier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy. The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will al= so collaborate with other WG as needed. WG deliverables include: (1) Generic Identity Services Framework (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in = a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the effort= s of the Working Group and help new comers: - Problem statement - Use cases - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for G= RIDS). - Applications of the architecture for use cases - Threat model document Milestones January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG November 2018 Recharter _______________________________________________ Ideas mailing list Ideas@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas --_000_DE35D83C1B3640AC8D440459A46A8827ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1 

I support this as the charter to put forward= . 

Victor

On Sep 2, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Sam Sun <sam.sun.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Padma,

The updated charter looks great!

Thanks for the relentless effort in putting everything together. Looking fo= rward to the next phase to implement the charter!

All the best,
Sam


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter
From: Padma Pillay-Esnault
To: ideas@ietf.org
CC:


Dear IDEAS

The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the = text below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the = latest comments and fixing some nits.

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.

Looking forward to the next milestone

Padma



I= DEAS: “IDentity EnAbled networkS”

&= nbsp;

N= etwork solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are = increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtual= ization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastru= cture that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of = its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could= be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and = new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements that go well= beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-loca= tion for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic associ= ation of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multi= cast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.  

&= nbsp;

T= he IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the e= xpected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases= .  The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-offs that m= ay be considered in the development of solutions.  We refer to the fra= mework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).<= span>

&= nbsp;

S= ome of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework in= clude:

&= nbsp;

-=  Flexibility and extensibility considerations

&= nbsp;

-=  Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with th= e framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc)<= /span>

&= nbsp;

-=  Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping up= date (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) =

&= nbsp;

-= Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated i= dentifiers.

&= nbsp;

-= Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, updat= e of information for identifiers..)

&= nbsp;

-=  Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement= needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwardi= ng traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis…)

&= nbsp;

-=  Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic ide= ntifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy.

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

T= he IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will als= o collaborate with other WG as needed.

&= nbsp;

W= G deliverables include:

<= span> 

(= 1) Generic Identity Services Framework

&= nbsp;

(= 2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

&= nbsp;

T= hese documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a= draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts= of the Working Group and help new comers:

&= nbsp;

-= Problem statement

&= nbsp;

-= Use cases

&= nbsp;

-= Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution

&= nbsp;

-= Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GR= IDS).

&= nbsp;

-= Applications of the architecture for use cases

&= nbsp;

-= Threat model document 

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

M= ilestones

&= nbsp;

J= anuary 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework

&= nbsp;

J= uly 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework

&= nbsp;

S= eptember 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG

&n= bsp;

No= vember 2018 Recharter

 

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
--_000_DE35D83C1B3640AC8D440459A46A8827ciscocom_-- From nobody Sun Sep 3 17:35:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B3C124319 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 17:35:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EaOK-UM-JzqR for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 17:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from regular1.263xmail.com (regular1.263xmail.com [211.150.99.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C538132198 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 17:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from langao?cdi.cn (unknown [192.168.165.103]) by regular1.263xmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EA04A47 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:35:17 +0800 (CST) X-263anti-spam: KSV:0;bpcheck:1; X-MAIL-GRAY: 0 X-MAIL-DELIVERY: 1 X-KSVirus-check: 0 X-ADDR-CHECKED: 0 X-ABS-CHECKED: 1 X-ANTISPAM-LEVEL: 2 Received: from smtp.263.net (va-smtp01.263.net [54.88.144.211]) by smtp.263.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7384C3FE for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:35:16 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail-oi0-f50.google.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.263.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AB39F60F for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:35:00 +0800 (CST) X-RL-SENDER: langao@cdi.cn X-FST-TO: ideas@ietf.org X-SENDER-IP: 209.85.218.50 X-LOGIN-NAME: langao@cdi.cn X-UNIQUE-TAG: <16c19e5b09a4e24195f1b68e83dafdb3> X-ATTACHMENT-NUM: 0 X-SENDER: langao@cdi.cn X-DNS-TYPE: 0 Received: from mail-oi0-f50.google.com (unknown [209.85.218.50]) by smtp.263.net (Postfix) whith ESMTP id 32265BWZVQK; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 08:35:00 +0800 (CST) Received: by mail-oi0-f50.google.com with SMTP id t75so34206190oie.3 for ; Sun, 03 Sep 2017 17:35:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiQvV/+HraMymh8Y6mIPZoiezUu66My+1LhMBYl2qRWvCWqu6L9 Uvi6xxYbHC71Xq18CKoiJAxyWjKuyA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5Iu4Qqqja72/PBV/TUyUALFapQiVB96YhIpPnJ4gV4IEx6rzJDfOhIM3IoImXRknO629+X5lZZmi9+JPf6T4M= X-Received: by 10.202.73.206 with SMTP id w197mr3324705oia.203.1504485297563; Sun, 03 Sep 2017 17:34:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.36.203 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 17:34:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5u0s47x32il27lvo9gerxjxa.1504356176497@email.android.com> From: Lan Gao Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:34:57 +0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Sam Sun , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c14fc0bb2e4f055852470f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 00:35:24 -0000 --001a11c14fc0bb2e4f055852470f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new charter looks great. It will be a good foundation to build upon. Regards, Lan Gao On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Victor Moreno (vimoreno) wrote: > +1 > > I support this as the charter to put forward. > > Victor > > On Sep 2, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Sam Sun wrote: > > Padma, > > The updated charter looks great! > > Thanks for the relentless effort in putting everything together. Looking > forward to the next phase to implement the charter! > > All the best, > Sam > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter > From: Padma Pillay-Esnault > To: ideas@ietf.org > CC: > > > Dear IDEAS > > The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the tex= t > below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the > latest comments and fixing some nits. > > Thank you all for your feedback and comments. > > Looking forward to the next milestone > > Padma > > > > IDEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D > > > > Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation > are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for > virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. > Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allow= s > nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for > packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by > identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, > additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to addre= ss > new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service an= d > mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator > protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic > association of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynam= ic > multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. > > > > The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines th= e > expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use > cases. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases= , > and it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the > development of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of > services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). > > > > Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework > include: > > > > - Flexibility and extensibility considerations > > > > - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the > framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) > > > > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping > update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) > > > > - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associate= d > identifiers. > > > > - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, > update of information for identifiers..) > > > > - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement > needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit > forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80= =A6) > > > > - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic > identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy= . > > > > > > The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will > also collaborate with other WG as needed. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > > > (1) Generic Identity Services Framework > > > > (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained i= n > a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the > efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > > > - Problem statement > > > > - Use cases > > > > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution > > > > - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for > GRIDS). > > > > - Applications of the architecture for use cases > > > > - Threat model document > > > > > > Milestones > > > > January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework > > > > July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework > > > > September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG > > > > November 2018 Recharter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > --001a11c14fc0bb2e4f055852470f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The new charter looks great. It will be a good foundation = to build upon.

Regards,
Lan Gao

On Sun, S= ep 3, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Victor Moreno (vimoreno) <vimoreno@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
+1=C2=A0

I support this as the c= harter to put forward.=C2=A0

Victor

On Sep 2, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Sam Sun <sam.sun.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Padma,

The updated charter looks great!

Thanks for the relentless effort in putting everything together. Looking fo= rward to the next phase to implement the charter!

All the best,
Sam


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter
From: Padma Pillay-Esnault
To: ideas@ietf.org<= br> CC:


Dear IDEAS

The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the = text below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the = latest comments and fixing some nits.

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.

Looking forward to the next milestone

Padma



I= DEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D

= =C2=A0

N= etwork solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are = increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtual= ization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastru= cture that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of = its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could= be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and = new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements that go well= beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-loca= tion for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic associ= ation of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multi= cast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.=C2=A0=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

T= he IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the e= xpected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases= .=C2=A0 The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-offs that m= ay be considered in the development of solutions.=C2=A0 We refer to the fra= mework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).<= span>

= =C2=A0

S= ome of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework in= clude:

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Flexibility and extensibility considerations

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with th= e framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc)<= /span>

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping up= date (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...)=C2=A0=

= =C2=A0

-= Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated i= dentifiers.

= =C2=A0

-= Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, updat= e of information for identifiers..)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement= needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwardi= ng traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80=A6)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic ide= ntifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy.

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

T= he IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will als= o collaborate with other WG as needed.

= =C2=A0

W= G deliverables include:

<= span>=C2=A0

(= 1) Generic Identity Services Framework

= =C2=A0

(= 2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

= =C2=A0

T= hese documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a= draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts= of the Working Group and help new comers:

= =C2=A0

-= Problem statement

= =C2=A0

-= Use cases

= =C2=A0

-= Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution

= =C2=A0

-= Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GR= IDS).

= =C2=A0

-= Applications of the architecture for use cases

= =C2=A0

-= Threat model document=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

M= ilestones

= =C2=A0

J= anuary 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework

= =C2=A0

J= uly 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework

= =C2=A0

S= eptember 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG

= =C2=A0

No= vember 2018 Recharter

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas


--001a11c14fc0bb2e4f055852470f-- From nobody Mon Sep 4 00:38:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4190D1321D5 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:38:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tqGknZ_V0j0Y for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1763132199 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNW04082; Mon, 04 Sep 2017 07:38:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML502-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.53]) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.45]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:38:02 +0100 From: Georgios Karagiannis To: "Victor Moreno (vimoreno)" , Sam Sun CC: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Thread-Index: AQHTI46VoPhU6pZaakKxnPBu/wuNPqKhiwUcgAEQzwCAAb5voA== Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 07:38:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <5u0s47x32il27lvo9gerxjxa.1504356176497@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.62.210] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C5034E44CD620A44971BAAEB372655DC2DD19C3Clhreml502mbs_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.59AD02E0.00B8, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 86ee7fc3fb7eab1741346610ede94bc8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 07:38:16 -0000 --_000_C5034E44CD620A44971BAAEB372655DC2DD19C3Clhreml502mbs_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 Please note that I also support this charter. Best regards, Georgios From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Victor Moreno (vim= oreno) Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 8:00 AM To: Sam Sun Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault; ideas@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter +1 I support this as the charter to put forward. Victor On Sep 2, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Sam Sun > wrote: Padma, The updated charter looks great! Thanks for the relentless effort in putting everything together. Looking fo= rward to the next phase to implement the charter! All the best, Sam -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter From: Padma Pillay-Esnault To: ideas@ietf.org CC: Dear IDEAS The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the text = below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the lates= t comments and fixing some nits. Thank you all for your feedback and comments. Looking forward to the next milestone Padma IDEAS: "IDentity EnAbled networkS" Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are= increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtua= lization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-= locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to di= scover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delive= ry. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locato= r protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastr= ucture and new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements t= hat go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identif= ier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also = useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name to a= set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service = anycast and context-aware IoT queries. The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the = expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use case= s. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and = it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the developm= ent of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of services = as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework i= nclude: - Flexibility and extensibility considerations - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the fr= amework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update= (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated = identifiers. - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, upda= te of information for identifiers..) - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement nee= ds (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding t= raffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis...) - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identif= ier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy. The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will al= so collaborate with other WG as needed. WG deliverables include: (1) Generic Identity Services Framework (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in = a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the effort= s of the Working Group and help new comers: - Problem statement - Use cases - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for G= RIDS). - Applications of the architecture for use cases - Threat model document Milestones January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG November 2018 Recharter _______________________________________________ Ideas mailing list Ideas@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas --_000_C5034E44CD620A44971BAAEB372655DC2DD19C3Clhreml502mbs_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+1<= /p>

 <= /p>

Please note that I also s= upport this charter.

 <= /p>

Best regards,<= /span>

Georgios

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Ideas [m= ailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Victor Moreno (vimoreno)
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 8:00 AM
To: Sam Sun
Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault; ideas@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter

 

+1 

 

I support this as the charter to put forward. <= br>
Victor


On Sep 2, 2017, at 5:43 AM, Sam Sun <sam.sun.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Padma,

The updated charter looks great!

Thanks for the relentless effort in putting everything together. Looking fo= rward to the next phase to implement the charter!

All the best,
Sam



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter
From: Padma Pillay-Esnault
To: ideas@ietf.org
CC:


Dear IDEAS

 

The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is= reflected in the text below. This version is based on the edits done by Al= varo, some of the latest comments and fixing some nits.

 

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.

 

Looking forward to the next milestone

 

Padma

 

 

 

IDEAS: “IDentity EnAbled networkS”=

 

Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-= Locator separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtualization and multi-homing across he= terogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols requir= e infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological loca= tion(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier= /locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional i= nfrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to address new require= ments that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet deliver= y. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services inv= olving dynamic association of a name to a set of network addresses - these = include dynamic multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.  

 

The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework docu= ment that defines the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases.  The framework will aim at a = homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-= offs that may be considered in the development of solutions.  We refer= to the framework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).

 

Some of the areas that should be considered when deve= loping the framework include:

 

- Flexibility and extensibility considerations

 

- Description of interfaces for different protoc= ols to interact with the framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc)

 

- Requirements for identifier/locator mapping re= solution and mapping update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) 

 

- Registration and lifecycle management of identities= and their associated identifiers.

 

- Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. acc= ess to framework, update of information for identifiers..)

 

- Description of required basic network policies= and policy enforcement needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locato= r pair, permit forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity= basis…)

 

- Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifie= r split and dynamic identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy.

 

 

The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and H= IP WGs. The WG will also collaborate with other WG as needed.

 

WG deliverables include:

 

(1) Generic Identity Services Framework

 

(2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may i= nclude:

 

These documents may not necessarily be published, but= may be maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers= :

 

- Problem statement

 

- Use cases

 

- Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and res= olution

 

- Requirements for identity authentication and author= ization service (for GRIDS).

 

- Applications of the architecture for use cases

 

- Threat model document 

 

 

Milestones

 

January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity = Services framework

 

July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services fram= ework

 

September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framewo= rk draft to the IESG

 

November 2018 Recharter

 

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/ideas

--_000_C5034E44CD620A44971BAAEB372655DC2DD19C3Clhreml502mbs_-- From nobody Mon Sep 4 00:43:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B17E1252BA for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BCiHrKbxcxla for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAC0F1200F3 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id DDCEB1001D7; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 09:43:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.42]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C637180062; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 09:43:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c845:f762:8997:ec86%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 09:43:26 +0200 From: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Thread-Index: AQHTI46NYelfsMLbbEOIZqWeY8kJX6KkW7Xg Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 07:43:25 +0000 Message-ID: <25942_1504511006_59AD041E_25942_68_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14784A1C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14784A1COPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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Cabellos Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 16:49:59 +0900 Message-ID: To: "JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN" Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141b8cc9697190558585b65" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 07:50:04 -0000 --001a1141b8cc9697190558585b65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 Thanks Padma for the hard work! Albert On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:43 PM, wrote: > Dear all, > > > > Thanks again to Padma for the editing effort. I too support this charter. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Christian. > > > > *De :* Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Padma > Pillay-Esnault > *En**voy=C3=A9 :* samedi 2 septembre 2017 03:55 > *=C3=80 :* ideas@ietf.org > *Objet :* [Ideas] IDEAS Charter > > > > Dear IDEAS > > > > The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the tex= t > below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the > latest comments and fixing some nits. > > > > Thank you all for your feedback and comments. > > > > Looking forward to the next milestone > > > > Padma > > > > > > > > IDEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D > > > > Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation > are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for > virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. > Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allow= s > nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for > packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by > identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, > additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to addre= ss > new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service an= d > mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator > protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic > association of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynam= ic > multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. > > > > The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines th= e > expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use > cases. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases= , > and it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the > development of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of > services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). > > > > Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework > include: > > > > - Flexibility and extensibility considerations > > > > - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the > framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) > > > > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping > update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) > > > > - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associate= d > identifiers. > > > > - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, > update of information for identifiers..) > > > > - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement > needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit > forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80= =A6) > > > > - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic > identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy= . > > > > > > The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will > also collaborate with other WG as needed. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > > > (1) Generic Identity Services Framework > > > > (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained i= n > a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the > efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > > > - Problem statement > > > > - Use cases > > > > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution > > > > - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for > GRIDS). > > > > - Applications of the architecture for use cases > > > > - Threat model document > > > > > > Milestones > > > > January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework > > > > July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework > > > > September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG > > > > November 2018 Recharter > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > --001a1141b8cc9697190558585b65 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1

Thanks Padma for the hard work!

Albert

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:43 PM, &l= t;chris= tian.jacquenet@orange.com> wrote:

Dear all,

=C2=A0

Thanks again to Padma for the editing effort= . I too support this charter.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

=C2=A0

Christian.

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: Idea= s [mailto:ideas= -bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Padma Pillay-Esnault
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: samedi 2 septembre 2017 03:55
=C3=80=C2=A0: id= eas@ietf.org
Objet=C2=A0: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter

=C2=A0

Dear IDEAS

=C2=A0

The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is= reflected in the text below. This version is based on the edits done by Al= varo, some of the latest comments and fixing some nits.

=C2=A0

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.=

=C2=A0

Looking forward to the next milestone<= /p>

=C2=A0

Padma

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IDEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networ= kS=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

Network solutions based on the concept = of Identifier-Locator separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtualization and multi-homing across he= terogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols requir= e infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological loca= tion(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier= /locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional i= nfrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to address new require= ments that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet deliver= y. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services inv= olving dynamic association of a name to a set of network addresses - these = include dynamic multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a = framework document that defines the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases.=C2=A0 The framework will aim at a = homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-= offs that may be considered in the development of solutions.=C2=A0 We refer= to the framework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).

=C2=A0

Some of the areas that should be consid= ered when developing the framework include:

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0Flexibility and extensibility co= nsiderations

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0Description of interfaces for di= fferent protocols to interact with the framework (e.g. id-loc split protoco= ls, management protocols, etc)

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0Requirements for identifier/loca= tor mapping resolution and mapping update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-h= oming, ...)=C2=A0

=C2=A0

- Registration and lifecycle management= of identities and their associated identifiers.

=C2=A0

- Identity authentication and authoriza= tion (e.g. access to framework, update of information for identifiers..)

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0Description of required basic ne= twork policies and policy enforcement needs (e.g. ability to look up an ide= ntifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity= basis=E2=80=A6)

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0Analysis of the concepts of iden= tity-identifier split and dynamic identifier changes, including their impli= cations on anonymity and privacy.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate w= ith LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will also collaborate with other WG as needed.=

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:<= u>

=C2=A0

(1) Generic Identity Services Framework=

=C2=A0

(2) Other WG sustaining/informational d= ocuments may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be = published, but may be maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Work= ing Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers= :

=C2=A0

- Problem statement

=C2=A0

- Use cases

=C2=A0

- Requirements for identifier/locator m= apping and resolution

=C2=A0

- Requirements for identity authenticat= ion and authorization service (for GRIDS).

=C2=A0

- Applications of the architecture for = use cases

=C2=A0

- Threat model document=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones

=C2=A0

January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Gen= eric Identity Services framework

=C2=A0

July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity= Services framework

=C2=A0

September 2018 Send Generic Identity Se= rvices framework draft to the IESG

=C2=A0

November 2018 Recharter

=C2=A0<= /p> 

____________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas


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Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 03:07:04 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Thread-Index: AQHTI46NaVjCHE+6PEOdrfKfcRrUXqKkr6+A//+ySlA= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:06:39 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 08:06:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <25942_1504511006_59AD041E_25942_68_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14784A1C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <25942_1504511006_59AD041E_25942_68_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14784A1C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.216.13] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_f7551cb922d3496db93bdd3fb208b3c0XCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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f4eW4GaYd5Cp for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 02:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out20-99.mail.aliyun.com (out20-99.mail.aliyun.com [115.124.20.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAD6B120721 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 02:07:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Alimail-AntiSpam: AC=CONTINUE; BC=0.920904|0.1159674; BR=01201311R421ec; FP=0|0|0|0|0|-1|-1|-1; HT=e02c03301; MF=madi@rpstir.net; NM=1; PH=DS; RN=2; RT=2; SR=0; TI=SMTPD_---.8pD1N8j_1504516025; Received: from 192.168.218.249(mailfrom:madi@rpstir.net ip:124.17.24.252) by smtp.aliyun-inc.com(10.147.40.200); Mon, 04 Sep 2017 17:07:06 +0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Di Ma In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 17:07:04 +0800 Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <45602EBB-E4E0-467A-91E2-BF96B2FA2F2F@rpstir.net> References: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 09:07:19 -0000 This updated charter looks good to me. I am in favor of it. Thanks to Padma. Di Ma RPSTIR https://bgpsecurity.net > =D4=DA 2017=C4=EA9=D4=C22=C8=D5=A3=AC09:55=A3=ACPadma Pillay-Esnault = =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA >=20 > Dear IDEAS >=20 > The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the = text below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of = the latest comments and fixing some nits. >=20 > Thank you all for your feedback and comments. >=20 > Looking forward to the next milestone >=20 > Padma >=20 >=20 >=20 > IDEAS: =A1=B0IDentity EnAbled networkS=A1=B1 >=20 > =20 > Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator = separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay = networking for virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous = access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require = infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological = location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure = and protocol could be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as = network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and new = protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements that go well = beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of = identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols = are also useful for additional services involving dynamic association of = a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, = cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. =20 >=20 > =20 > The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines = the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing = use cases. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use = cases, and it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered = in the development of solutions. We refer to the framework providing = the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). >=20 > =20 > Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the = framework include: >=20 > =20 > - Flexibility and extensibility considerations >=20 > =20 > - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with = the framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) >=20 > =20 > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping = update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...)=20 >=20 > =20 > - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their = associated identifiers. >=20 > =20 > - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, = update of information for identifiers..) >=20 > =20 > - Description of required basic network policies and policy = enforcement needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, = permit forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity = basis=A1=AD) >=20 > =20 > - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic = identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and = privacy. >=20 > =20 > =20 > The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG = will also collaborate with other WG as needed. >=20 > =20 > WG deliverables include: >=20 > =20 > (1) Generic Identity Services Framework >=20 > =20 > (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >=20 > =20 > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be = maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to = support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >=20 > =20 > - Problem statement >=20 > =20 > - Use cases >=20 > =20 > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution >=20 > =20 > - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service = (for GRIDS). >=20 > =20 > - Applications of the architecture for use cases >=20 > =20 > - Threat model document=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > Milestones >=20 > =20 > January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services = framework >=20 > =20 > July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework >=20 > =20 > September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the = IESG >=20 > =20 > November 2018 Recharter >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas From nobody Tue Sep 5 21:42:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4741321C4 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2pfqm9UKuXQ1 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 21:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22e.google.com (mail-io0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC9721321AF for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 21:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id q64so21529268iod.5 for ; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 21:42:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=idwlg3lOOkVWQ8rMs4+jALUVSYJE/vE2fpxph2vprAA=; b=tPR1GgeaxYc+3CVRe47N+LA39j9xA6A/36IAH+2GKgtjINqHlSY9hxeFhjyttypNJS PnowwAxX4tZdJOVo0Kv0QgFpQx5dj6u776UVH7V/HXEVmJ1mnPmDBNV9RIJa6GGAsz8f cGbcyEOYQqhPrTdkGCunYJEI/gNM20OvABV7FdXmc5ZjbJbgZtdAtIEQnXSudS8HXUuQ sKe56FXj1CO8oLEJ497gPcfJgDsWXS6pnaTAr3Ab4ek7IVfQJ/gbHBuiXI4iRE7BDYjw Su2pu+YP6OTcrc3KWzKPyp6Gi9nES/xNOVWcCwPCE4YFgrFZVM0oVO7ndEwMQgJRy3HD T57g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=idwlg3lOOkVWQ8rMs4+jALUVSYJE/vE2fpxph2vprAA=; b=XNnI7XunM7tg4VKrcv4710o2ou3OETXEjrRUBJC3vkJRR+krakngbB5HRYMKBtODZj /zipmkffZWlqUuTTQf+u07gI68k5JMtS2Gbwrj+y3Xft0x6QW0UidsDK0iCeOu30jO3D f1pL6QAyiuBaZUotZqYCrQ7tcfPqTsc+gedExg8i4eaFH+KSuv60DApzEm2Z8XpjrFU7 Y34UHqoqeekyCAdkElciO5FbNDfxowvV8F6O2TgMKQ2yngCVBD6q7zUG0vO5Cfo2Bg8W 0F4DEG0BBKWROudafor1lnI2gsyQedmAf7otnu30j2REIX9HQCxQs9jPjvAFzwvkgjPT k+nA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjG9IDnR+sPpg6/071lG2FEf2UC9Iuvh126JXrMz00PGmHtKzxM vfpgmS0kIWbehw5z6CUQE+wgsdYioQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDfXJJu+ONROjdDMuYwcxyP4Cy+0SmMswcg1QshJCj1FgP0/IUTpGICTRjHaFo8mPYb4Idzp8ZfeOM37650MsE= X-Received: by 10.107.200.203 with SMTP id y194mr1644676iof.238.1504672929047; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 21:42:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.140.138 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 21:41:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Alberto Rodriguez-Natal Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 21:41:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0bfe1e706af105587df70a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2017 04:42:13 -0000 --94eb2c0bfe1e706af105587df70a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Padma, The updated charter looks great! It has my support. Thanks everyone for all the effort! Best, Alberto On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Dear IDEAS > > The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the tex= t > below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the > latest comments and fixing some nits. > > Thank you all for your feedback and comments. > > Looking forward to the next milestone > > Padma > > > > IDEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D > > > > Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation > are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for > virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. > Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allow= s > nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for > packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by > identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, > additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to addre= ss > new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service an= d > mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator > protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic > association of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynam= ic > multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. > > > > The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines th= e > expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use > cases. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases= , > and it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the > development of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of > services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). > > > > Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework > include: > > > > - Flexibility and extensibility considerations > > > > - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the > framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) > > > > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping > update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) > > > > - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associate= d > identifiers. > > > > - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, > update of information for identifiers..) > > > > - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement > needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit > forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80= =A6) > > > > - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic > identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy= . > > > > > > The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will > also collaborate with other WG as needed. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > > > (1) Generic Identity Services Framework > > > > (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained i= n > a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the > efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > > > - Problem statement > > > > - Use cases > > > > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution > > > > - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for > GRIDS). > > > > - Applications of the architecture for use cases > > > > - Threat model document > > > > > > Milestones > > > > January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework > > > > July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework > > > > September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG > > > > November 2018 Recharter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > --94eb2c0bfe1e706af105587df70a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Padma,

The updat= ed charter looks great! It has my support.

Thanks = everyone for all the effort!

Best,
Alberto
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Fri, Sep 1, 201= 7 at 6:55 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>= wrote:
Dear IDEAS
<= br>
The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflecte= d in the text below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, som= e of the latest comments and fixing some nits.

Tha= nk you all for your feedback and comments.

Looking= forward to the next milestone

Padma


I= DEAS: =E2=80=9CIDentity EnAbled networkS=E2=80=9D

= =C2=A0

N= etwork solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for pa= cket delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to address= new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapp= ing of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols= are also useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name= to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.=C2=A0=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

T= he IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases.=C2=A0 = The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will = call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the development of solutions.=C2=A0 We refer to the framework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).

= =C2=A0

S= ome of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework include:<= span>

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Flexibility and extensibility considerations

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update (e.g. discover= y, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...)=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

- Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated identifiers.

= =C2=A0

- Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, update= of information for identifiers..)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement needs (e.g. abili= ty to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic for partic= ular endpoints on a per-identity basis=E2=80=A6)

= =C2=A0

-= =C2=A0Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identifier changes= , including their implications on anonymity and privacy.<= /p>

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

T= he IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will also collabo= rate with other WG as needed.

= =C2=A0

W= G deliverables include:

<= span>=C2=A0

(= 1) Generic Identity Services Framework

= =C2=A0

(= 2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

= =C2=A0

T= hese documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a draf= t form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:

= =C2=A0

-= Problem statement

= =C2=A0

-= Use cases

= =C2=A0

- Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution

= =C2=A0

- Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GRI= DS).

= =C2=A0

- Applications of the architecture for use cases

= =C2=A0

-= Threat model document=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

M= ilestones

= =C2=A0

J= anuary 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework

= =C2=A0

J= uly 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework

= =C2=A0

S= eptember 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG

= =C2=A0

No= vember 2018 Recharter

=C2=A0


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--94eb2c0bfe1e706af105587df70a-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 07:48:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9990E132F33 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:48:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zS_QKt3X3Tzz for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 017C8132F32 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:48:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=15607; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1504795735; x=1506005335; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=OPyBp6ORGleu5kd4DQIUtiEMmgK1n2BXBspF/2QdyNc=; b=J240MvKb2s0HCXaLV8VJeVIB2LctppNSy3FT7RKhNP9qQDeEaLO0/EzC WZkaKsW+GaPAfG8tBcaf2IcWJSNxDjgsd54xX9QJf8QYjFTe8o5ciJMtf rtnow1DDGL3V6zC/O7tFwXL5MKShhLOzAVWTSPyp/GGR6cnl4SJWUajm6 o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CIAgAHXLFZ/51dJa1TCRkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJva4FSJweeMYFxd4dCiDCFPw6CBAqFPgKEA0AXAQIBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BayiFGAEBAQEDgQkCAQgRAQIBAigHIREUAwYIAgQBEhuJMkwDFbAIhzYNhAMBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAR2DKoICgU6BY4JzNYJXgWYOSoVUBZEoS4ZBiAQ?= =?us-ascii?q?8Ao9ZhHaCE5BeiXyCV4grAhEZAYE4ASEBNYENdxWHZHaJewGBDgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,358,1500940800"; d="scan'208,217";a="292507111" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 07 Sep 2017 14:48:24 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v87EmOP8019394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Sep 2017 14:48:24 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:48:23 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-005.cisco.com ([173.37.102.15]) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com ([173.37.102.15]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:48:23 -0500 From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Thread-Index: AQHTI46Om9rAxA6QbUSK6rjMzmJ86aKpgxOA Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 14:48:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.1.161129 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.213.48] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5D6C0B52F31E4rrahmanciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 14:48:56 -0000 --_000_D5D6C0B52F31E4rrahmanciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. From: Ideas > on beha= lf of Padma Pillay-Esnault > Date: Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:55 PM To: "ideas@ietf.org" > Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Dear IDEAS The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the text = below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the lates= t comments and fixing some nits. Thank you all for your feedback and comments. Looking forward to the next milestone Padma IDEAS: "IDentity EnAbled networkS" Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are= increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtua= lization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-= locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to di= scover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delive= ry. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locato= r protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastr= ucture and new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements t= hat go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identif= ier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also = useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name to a= set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service = anycast and context-aware IoT queries. The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the = expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use case= s. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and = it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the developm= ent of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of services = as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). Some of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework i= nclude: - Flexibility and extensibility considerations - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the fr= amework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update= (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated = identifiers. - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, upda= te of information for identifiers..) - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement nee= ds (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding t= raffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis...) - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identif= ier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy. The IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will al= so collaborate with other WG as needed. WG deliverables include: (1) Generic Identity Services Framework (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in = a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the effort= s of the Working Group and help new comers: - Problem statement - Use cases - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for G= RIDS). - Applications of the architecture for use cases - Threat model document Milestones January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG November 2018 Recharter --_000_D5D6C0B52F31E4rrahmanciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support.

From: Ideas <ideas-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Padma Pi= llay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.c= om>
Date: Friday, September 1, 2017 at = 9:55 PM
To: "ideas@ietf.org" <ide= as@ietf.org>
Subject: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter

Dear IDEAS

The final outcome of the discussions on the alias is reflected in the = text below. This version is based on the edits done by Alvaro, some of the = latest comments and fixing some nits.

Thank you all for your feedback and comments.

Looking forward to the next milestone

Padma



I= DEAS: “IDentity EnAbled networkS”

&= nbsp;

N= etwork solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are = increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtual= ization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastru= cture that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of = its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could= be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and = new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements that go well= beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-loca= tion for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic associ= ation of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multi= cast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries.  

&= nbsp;

T= he IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the e= xpected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases= .  The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-offs that m= ay be considered in the development of solutions.  We refer to the fra= mework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS).<= span>

&= nbsp;

S= ome of the areas that should be considered when developing the framework in= clude:

&= nbsp;

-=  Flexibility and extensibility considerations

&= nbsp;

-=  Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with th= e framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc)<= /span>

&= nbsp;

-=  Requirements for identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping up= date (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) =

&= nbsp;

-= Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated i= dentifiers.

&= nbsp;

-= Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, updat= e of information for identifiers..)

&= nbsp;

-=  Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement= needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwardi= ng traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis…)

&= nbsp;

-=  Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic ide= ntifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy.

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

T= he IDEAS WG will closely collaborate with LISP and HIP WGs. The WG will als= o collaborate with other WG as needed.

&= nbsp;

W= G deliverables include:

<= span> 

(= 1) Generic Identity Services Framework

&= nbsp;

(= 2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

&= nbsp;

T= hese documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a= draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts= of the Working Group and help new comers:

&= nbsp;

-= Problem statement

&= nbsp;

-= Use cases

&= nbsp;

-= Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution

&= nbsp;

-= Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GR= IDS).

&= nbsp;

-= Applications of the architecture for use cases

&= nbsp;

-= Threat model document 

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

M= ilestones

&= nbsp;

J= anuary 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework

&= nbsp;

J= uly 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework

&= nbsp;

S= eptember 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG

&n= bsp;

No= vember 2018 Recharter

 

 --_000_D5D6C0B52F31E4rrahmanciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 10:18:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94865132992 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:18:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L2-d8BDwOSJF for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00195132962 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DOD46335; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:18:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:18:39 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.39]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.191]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:18:34 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter Thread-Index: AQHTI46WvtfssywB0kW4LfmengOSyqKpsyHQ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:18:34 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EA9B183@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.151] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EA9B183sjceml521mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0201.59B17F70.0163, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.39, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 86ee7fc3fb7eab1741346610ede94bc8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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[IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0F6132940; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 15:01:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: aretana@cisco.com, ideas-chairs@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.60.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 15:01:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 22:01:33 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If only "Yes, but ..." was a position I could select ... I'm really glad to see this going forward - enough to ballot "Yes". This looks like a framework that could be used in a number of use cases, and my "Yes, but ..." is that it's not clear to me, how much analysis of ID/Loc separation security implications that some folks downstream are going to have to do, when using this framework. I'm remembering an exchange with a document editor on the last telechat that could be summarized as "we didn't do the work on general security implications of X, so each usage of X has to do that work itself, rather than pointing to previous work". OK, if that's where we are, but IDEAS hasn't already done the same thing (yet). I'm looking at deliverables like "Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GRIDS)" and "Threat model document", so I know there's SOMEthing in there, but I don't know what else might be required, if someone wanted to think about the general security implications of GRIDS, and I note that those deliverables are listed as living drafts or wiki entries, which doesn't sound like anything GRIDS framework usages would be able to point to, when they need to look at security implications. Is a look at general security implications, in a form that specific framework usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? (It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to ask, right?) From nobody Mon Sep 11 11:56:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68401331CB; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:56:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GFrC-ZKuNwtS; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.verizonwireless.com (mercury.verizonwireless.com [162.115.227.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3C8C132EFB; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:55:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=verizonwireless.com; i=@verizonwireless.com; q=dns/txt; s=prodmail; t=1505156158; x=1536692158; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=cIf6Y0dHm7CUMzZ87nOmFxMQmzd8xOyE5NHflTEpgXY=; b=nkVHHmOoTZsd2Je+GtHhPElvDI8Pbim+2F/1qEQQhVm0MsMoyH96G60y zNSKHrip+vU+ZJCL5OdO410aJqT1/hcgd8hyOogklgYCGoaX/RdjDYpz2 YRYVSanAKCIcKb4DP+5IKZmILOrJDEZ1iQMzOJYWYxHZdUoLG1qouGThd 4=; X-Host: challenger.odc.vzwcorp.com Received: from casac1exh002.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([10.11.218.44]) by mercury.verizonwireless.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA256; 11 Sep 2017 18:55:53 +0000 Received: from scwexch04apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (153.114.130.23) by CASAC1EXH002.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (10.11.218.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.248.2; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:55:36 -0700 Received: from scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (153.114.130.31) by scwexch04apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (153.114.130.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:55:36 -0700 Received: from scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([153.114.130.31]) by scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([153.114.130.31]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 11:55:36 -0700 From: "Bogineni, Kalyani" To: 'Spencer Dawkins' , The IESG CC: "aretana@cisco.com" , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , "Bogineni, Kalyani" Thread-Topic: [E] [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTKO4qpJGvFLFQ0E2PFMiDVvqWHaKwDKAQ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 18:55:36 +0000 Message-ID: <44fc229a947949199a2506f532b7a801@scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.11.60.250] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [E] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 18:56:02 -0000 charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes We support standardizing the mapping system and control plane protocols. Kalyani Bogineni Verizon -----Original Message----- From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 6:02 PM To: The IESG Cc: aretana@cisco.com; ideas@ietf.org; ideas-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [E] [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (wit= h COMMENT) Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email= addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc= tory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.org= _doc_charter-2Dietf-2Dideas_&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRx= pb6__0PomBTQ&r=3DIdiSODh8aDRjdCeGgd9Mzr2tsDA8-g976yWB1sPbdMo&m=3D4iTQevao0F= vmGJ2lQosFV_brUjdjM9g2wGBLFxgT5Fs&s=3Dw6TJbOQo5YtxXCLwzLkvFZmbH9XAyByGSWycK= 2md3Hs&e=3D=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If only "Yes, but ..." was a position I could select ... I'm really glad to see this going forward - enough to ballot "Yes". This looks like a framework that could be used in a number of use cases, an= d my "Yes, but ..." is that it's not clear to me, how much analysis of ID/L= oc separation security implications that some folks downstream are going to= have to do, when using this framework. I'm remembering an exchange with a document editor on the last telechat tha= t could be summarized as "we didn't do the work on general security implica= tions of X, so each usage of X has to do that work itself, rather than poin= ting to previous work". OK, if that's where we are, but IDEAS hasn't alread= y done the same thing (yet). I'm looking at deliverables like "Requirements for identity authentication = and authorization service (for GRIDS)" and "Threat model document", so I kn= ow there's SOMEthing in there, but I don't know what else might be required= , if someone wanted to think about the general security implications of GRI= DS, and I note that those deliverables are listed as living drafts or wiki = entries, which doesn't sound like anything GRIDS framework usages would be = able to point to, when they need to look at security implications. Is a look at general security implications, in a form that specific framewo= rk usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? (It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to ask, right?= ) _______________________________________________ Ideas mailing list Ideas@ietf.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman= _listinfo_ideas&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&= r=3DIdiSODh8aDRjdCeGgd9Mzr2tsDA8-g976yWB1sPbdMo&m=3D4iTQevao0FvmGJ2lQosFV_b= rUjdjM9g2wGBLFxgT5Fs&s=3Dt9wokY80pZ8u3yVsBlAumHv46uTMT6LWzptTTFlFlys&e=3D=20 From nobody Mon Sep 11 12:17:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A51A132ED5; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:17:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JLWpuv_A4slI; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x235.google.com (mail-yw0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2023132F2F; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x235.google.com with SMTP id r85so23729594ywg.1; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:17:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DEP+cxLEBJMMwKbBUEQapic6VnZp8lLRheRl4SGL4Y4=; b=XwgZmlguBbYMoL2sfznOxujHAOHp+0OucZE1P526CVyjeNk5/5L7t7015POfC3228S w1MYNVAlzE0JpYBDq8JoHaOGmKquDZwjsHS/aJzlHpNb2yszoF8VCLWG6yEqyiGxrli+ pOYJ2ZZsexP6owftTbkKUNhFReJqW0VK7Fq07hbmfvyuEgyW3fd569yULHMJv6LXdFL0 QzOOALqRpv5RArMYxoQeITpdSi7Tvi5yrpzmqKutUVzUcnaqezRVBtCaFcLcpFwvouUI 2BbXJiKRW+qeBFGUNJiKXIIFrEowRpXDCrzhKYuqjU+XOxbqSZdHuOpYBhKAt5pAUhVl o4VA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DEP+cxLEBJMMwKbBUEQapic6VnZp8lLRheRl4SGL4Y4=; b=D6ePfj4KnDNbETJ4uEK1rleNN+WEVn+ngz43GOq6SqJPhyAI74Q1vjDWnDIpCutDKL UAqeY201VWF83I3VGEkzKu900XBXeMSkyX1n9zq85QIhuJH4qB1dxO2g2eiTPRNeXvQ6 ErXNOYepz80aVKjcLW7oTlSsY9BNWN8YcOzZ/fFr2bqtfX1epmx69HuIIEbYE/q66ubi u73BF2kdo3/cVnggJ8M0oljvHRokQ8qYaJgo6dE06fsy9LhkPcMBpTlJaga2Km2NUSNS vyb1eHTSIj1EgBONqaFegqsAv/RQzlncC8JuUBA0jaddd/bpJKfZ+8mUoQUr/hDhMcHb MCdA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjHJUlaC1TcmQWj6j8sn+ahTghiafdaxJ+dfu7tdsqiNCe2bg0M da4iXAa/B+T5lQ6j5gWMd+TaOtoySw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb4fgj/zipgR9q01JEj+ZgzSj2meW9l8oc/vP3kDs5STdrQOvl3zjPo1MhMOpjN32GfAgYsGcHVYtIId15jvQe4= X-Received: by 10.129.169.134 with SMTP id g128mr3926862ywh.57.1505157443989; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.2.15 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <44fc229a947949199a2506f532b7a801@scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <44fc229a947949199a2506f532b7a801@scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:17:23 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Bogineni, Kalyani" Cc: The IESG , "aretana@cisco.com" , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c13cb78c7b6860558eec612" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [E] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:17:27 -0000 --94eb2c13cb78c7b6860558eec612 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Kalyani, On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Bogineni, Kalyani < Kalyani.Bogineni@verizonwireless.com> wrote: > charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes > We support standardizing the mapping system and control plane protocols. > I'm sorry, but I don't understand this as a response to whether security analysis at the framework level is in scope for IDEAS? Thanks, Spencer > > Kalyani Bogineni > Verizon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 6:02 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: aretana@cisco.com; ideas@ietf.org; ideas-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [E] [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: > (with COMMENT) > > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ > datatracker.ietf.org_doc_charter-2Dietf-2Dideas_&d=DwICAg&c= > udBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r= > IdiSODh8aDRjdCeGgd9Mzr2tsDA8-g976yWB1sPbdMo&m=4iTQevao0FvmGJ2lQosFV_ > brUjdjM9g2wGBLFxgT5Fs&s=w6TJbOQo5YtxXCLwzLkvFZmbH9XAyByGSWycK2md3Hs&e= > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If only "Yes, but ..." was a position I could select ... > > I'm really glad to see this going forward - enough to ballot "Yes". > > This looks like a framework that could be used in a number of use cases, > and my "Yes, but ..." is that it's not clear to me, how much analysis of > ID/Loc separation security implications that some folks downstream are > going to have to do, when using this framework. > > I'm remembering an exchange with a document editor on the last telechat > that could be summarized as "we didn't do the work on general security > implications of X, so each usage of X has to do that work itself, rather > than pointing to previous work". OK, if that's where we are, but IDEAS > hasn't already done the same thing (yet). > > I'm looking at deliverables like "Requirements for identity authentication > and authorization service (for GRIDS)" and "Threat model document", so I > know there's SOMEthing in there, but I don't know what else might be > required, if someone wanted to think about the general security > implications of GRIDS, and I note that those deliverables are listed as > living drafts or wiki entries, which doesn't sound like anything GRIDS > framework usages would be able to point to, when they need to look at > security implications. > > Is a look at general security implications, in a form that specific > framework usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? > > (It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to ask, > right?) > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_ideas&d=DwICAg&c=udBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LR > xpb6__0PomBTQ&r=IdiSODh8aDRjdCeGgd9Mzr2tsDA8-g976yWB1sPbdMo&m= > 4iTQevao0FvmGJ2lQosFV_brUjdjM9g2wGBLFxgT5Fs&s= > t9wokY80pZ8u3yVsBlAumHv46uTMT6LWzptTTFlFlys&e= > --94eb2c13cb78c7b6860558eec612 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Kalyani,

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Bogineni, Kalyani <Kalyani.Bogineni@verizonwireless.com> wrote:
charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes
We support standardizing the mapping system and control plane protocols.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand= this as a response to whether security analysis at the framework level is = in scope for IDEAS?

Thanks,

Spencer
=C2=A0

Kalyani Bogineni
Verizon

-----Original Message-----
From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 6:02 PM
To: The IESG
Cc: aretana@cisco.com; ideas@ietf.org; ideas-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: [E] [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: = (with COMMENT)

Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email= addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc= tory paragraph, however.)



The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-= 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_charter-2Dietf-2Dideas_&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r= =3DIdiSODh8aDRjdCeGgd9Mzr2tsDA8-g976yWB1sPbdMo&m=3D4iTQe= vao0FvmGJ2lQosFV_brUjdjM9g2wGBLFxgT5Fs&s=3Dw6TJbOQo5YtxXCLwzL= kvFZmbH9XAyByGSWycK2md3Hs&e=3D



-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
COMMENT:
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----

If only "Yes, but ..." was a position I could select ...

I'm really glad to see this going forward - enough to ballot "Yes&= quot;.

This looks like a framework that could be used in a number of use cases, an= d my "Yes, but ..." is that it's not clear to me, how much an= alysis of ID/Loc separation security implications that some folks downstrea= m are going to have to do, when using this framework.

I'm remembering an exchange with a document editor on the last telechat= that could be summarized as "we didn't do the work on general sec= urity implications of X, so each usage of X has to do that work itself, rat= her than pointing to previous work". OK, if that's where we are, b= ut IDEAS hasn't already done the same thing (yet).

I'm looking at deliverables like "Requirements for identity authen= tication and authorization service (for GRIDS)" and "Threat model= document", so I know there's SOMEthing in there, but I don't = know what else might be required, if someone wanted to think about the gene= ral security implications of GRIDS, and I note that those deliverables are = listed as living drafts or wiki entries, which doesn't sound like anyth= ing GRIDS framework usages would be able to point to, when they need to loo= k at security implications.

Is a look at general security implications, in a form that specific framewo= rk usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS?

(It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to ask, ri= ght?)


_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
htt= ps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_= mailman_listinfo_ideas&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHp= JlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r=3DIdiSODh8aDRjdCeGgd9Mzr2tsDA8-g976yWB1sPbdMo&m=3D4iTQevao0FvmGJ2lQosFV_brUjdjM9g2wGBLFxgT= 5Fs&s=3Dt9wokY80pZ8u3yVsBlAumHv46uTMT6LWzptTTFlFlys&e=3D<= /a>

--94eb2c13cb78c7b6860558eec612-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 12:18:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B49132F2F for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:18:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=winlab-rutgers-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oI96cSYB5Txu for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com (mail-io0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DC2E132ED5 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id n69so31911318ioi.5 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:18:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=winlab-rutgers-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=3n4aWDnchf9m8+iISsfpoAnzLa7oqlZU8tLviVY24uU=; b=JQFu2V6PkHjCQBnk91CngIwmcXRc6mYt3Dx8l/8X7W9qejSrlhoSV0KIwNWCZDjyu6 uFUWbf1eRxeGWSDGXrzhnSNq0v18isWkfZVomMEhf6jnAuA6SsbKEjbmSWTVK7qVCZuq JimudeGhG2GUWzNcrLM0ZldpnXepiS4sWKXSlpqbw4Eut4OqVr5YIgq40XYyu050PPH/ ZA/XJAiw+TJRqeN818tycHqzT1KJYes+qWON5+IkGzfnvn8gFXq4Kh6mU+Ns5tQCDhvP Z3MaKvQq8x5KsO3W7fECBTamdX/JRpqLDNmrV+mwOfk0ZQ7pqGe+tX4/pc4UkolW+4+K 5JFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=3n4aWDnchf9m8+iISsfpoAnzLa7oqlZU8tLviVY24uU=; b=J03Mb6SuO8htExhUFJ9XXGTqtgb5P9qXslIO7qmi344YmgSvD0CfFCG8Nk/sb1zw5v XcvWcncoodmdZSUaldTYjOOs/lgNp5LhcaCPG4s9x/UKI0HX8N9vik4rvcw2ndIzq3Zc 3uXY4lXWYt5/1narsdvFVSAMaP4sUOwo2SklWoCGSN4dLXBpwnwgpZx19UpoU8CnuGyN UEUZ60emvmWHOCLtslU6rnfLtgKyUOjwLDteV2al9QoeukfLKwL2LnibekrTmyvoUUgg 364v9jEmH3uNnwAoOzQkwERG558czvlgPw3FpMNGYHB1KxT5ElSwwTe9aP9XwrqQEZsH EjFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhGQm//RqsP9N+pINNtidmKGT425dHhubzmFP7e3fKvJvUMGx6B dVuNA8px1sKXS1HHsgsnmMM+edc8fvbG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDfxsaPXRquaRlRhCJeSYyM4+BTz9XprjnFCD6CDDWsD1TRq4tkvzO+wFRu85Bkyz4flt85al98Mqu9EQg68+g= X-Received: by 10.202.73.76 with SMTP id w73mr13052954oia.233.1505157076859; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.18.172 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Dipankar Raychaudhuri Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:11:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1134fc32e5efe10558eeb06a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [E] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:18:57 -0000 --001a1134fc32e5efe10558eeb06a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We support the proposed IDEAS charter aimed at standardizing the mapping system and related control plane protocols. D. Raychaudhuri WINLAB, Rutgers University --001a1134fc32e5efe10558eeb06a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
We support the proposed IDEAS charter aimed at standardizing the mapping system and related control plane protocols.

D. Raychaudhuri
WINLAB, Rutgers University
--001a1134fc32e5efe10558eeb06a-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 12:40:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E015132F32; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:40:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id He9xjeD5CfDg; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.verizonwireless.com (mercury.verizonwireless.com [162.115.227.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D6EF1331CB; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:39:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=verizonwireless.com; i=@verizonwireless.com; q=dns/txt; s=prodmail; t=1505158799; x=1536694799; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=nfUMweYeGPizG0Sk1PBdJSKowoFiRLqnUqz1N1UTXNY=; b=I+BfVINnvrdBlPjx+6UrAiKezo87etFY7m7R1xlnn3poSfaGoavMCkRS oH8bII0ecUzIYNRZm5GeczZglkeI53c5VPfRs5CCvpZYoXijb8KMPDxrZ Y9jXjh8dqzp4PLhq2orhChS6qQPwWoyzdI9K4CeHfXYBVsoNUts1sSjk6 M=; X-Host: ranger.odc.vzwcorp.com Received: from casac1exh001.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([10.11.218.43]) by mercury.verizonwireless.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA256; 11 Sep 2017 19:39:57 +0000 Received: from scwexch13apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (153.114.130.32) by CASAC1EXH001.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (10.11.218.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.248.2; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:39:42 -0700 Received: from scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (153.114.130.31) by scwexch13apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (153.114.130.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:39:41 -0700 Received: from scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([153.114.130.31]) by scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([153.114.130.31]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:39:41 -0700 From: "Bogineni, Kalyani" To: 'Spencer Dawkins at IETF' CC: The IESG , "aretana@cisco.com" , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [E] [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTKO4qpJGvFLFQ0E2PFMiDVvqWHaKwDKAQgAB8DYD//5BFkA== Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:39:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <44fc229a947949199a2506f532b7a801@scwexch12apd.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.11.60.250] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e80beb9766564305b7beb5012c3bf57bscwexch12apduswinadvzwc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [E] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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AQHTI46NpYAdbn4X/0SIIpu2u11q0qKqB18AgAZWcAA= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:05:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EA9B183@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EA9B183@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C399504DC46D4129B6D2E64FC8526588ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] IDEAS Charter X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 11 Sep 2017 22:14:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8BMEP8U027605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:14:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:14:24 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:14:24 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG CC: "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTK0tTGAquvPuZ9UezZyZyt3mQ2A== Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:14:24 +0000 Message-ID: <8402A18E-1905-424C-8DF2-A0038D1C6413@cisco.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <486EA29433CCA749BE7233A14BBE6614@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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Mon, 11 Sep 2017 21:05:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.2.15 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 21:05:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8402A18E-1905-424C-8DF2-A0038D1C6413@cisco.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8402A18E-1905-424C-8DF2-A0038D1C6413@cisco.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:05:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Cc: The IESG , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043d9dbc26351d0558f62766" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 04:05:28 -0000 --f403043d9dbc26351d0558f62766 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Alvaro, On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > Spencer: > > Hi! > > The support documents are listed as examples, and the current intent is > not to publish them. > > I fully expect the Framework to have appropriate Security Considerations > (i.e. not a section saying that other documents will consider security) s= o > that every future document doesn=E2=80=99t have to re-examine, at least t= he general > portion. Other documents may obviously contain specific considerations > applicable to them (for extensions, protocols, etc.). > This sounds excellent. > If you want to, I can add a line pointing explicitly at general security > implications of GRIDS as part of the items that should be considered when > developing the framework. Do the right thing, but I do think recent experience has shown that it's easy to push off the security analysis at the framework level so that a working group can produce a specific usage quickly (or, it would have been quickly, if the specific usage was able to point to existing security analysis in the framework itself ;-) Spencer --f403043d9dbc26351d0558f62766 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Alvaro,

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) <areta= na@cisco.com> wrote:
Spence= r:

Hi!

The support documents are listed as examples, and the current intent is not= to publish them.

I fully expect the Framework to have appropriate Security Considerations (i= .e. not a section saying that other documents will consider security) so th= at every future document doesn=E2=80=99t have to re-examine, at least the g= eneral portion.=C2=A0 Other documents may obviously contain specific consid= erations applicable to them (for extensions, protocols, etc.).

This sounds excellent.
=C2=A0
If you want to, I can add a line pointing explicit= ly at general security implications of GRIDS as part of the items that shou= ld be considered when developing the framework.

=
Do the right thing, but I do think recent experience has shown that it= 's easy to push off the security analysis at the framework level so tha= t a working group can produce a specific usage quickly (or, it would have b= een quickly, if the specific usage was able to point to existing security a= nalysis in the framework itself ;-)

Spencer=C2=A0<= /div>
--f403043d9dbc26351d0558f62766-- From nobody Wed Sep 13 13:35:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F8C132F2A for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGJd_wj8STfr for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22b.google.com (mail-qt0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B568A132ECE for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id b1so3378550qtc.4 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5cYusj3tFQin3JLd/0rtbG639rE0J366ZPc5ji6aXXo=; b=mAI7ZknEUtd+EdgQCZvcacwFhrXqJCV7czl227QH3nUjhQbxfmDQRaZnwkWr4R+Sw7 KzmpwJYWYMy+GB8585iH6StNk/dbv+Rm/HEeUJgARduvMEfRMfE/Bie1Q6E+DYHIpIP5 Lrj0rBQ0neblxXaTb+bVDnjDwYE5dQW88LnaWAxvgGR2higk0Pra6P6aPJhdK6M2c7Zd jA/pxF8nvw2trXu4NMEPEfyU7IbubrJcxYExRQHMW4FLPb312cD5gPD6w90RiqrTX8lX 5PE/Ye5N0xq2dGyUdnhuYBIgkNcRx529cA8S+en4d9LoXdTjIfffntH7HlbX3sPzNQBo x6Dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5cYusj3tFQin3JLd/0rtbG639rE0J366ZPc5ji6aXXo=; b=mKjcDLvqiH+kYZo/AltQnFrbsQ9wTuJXAUh80r9Sl+9AXfMg7zmcEPN5V2bUvwDqnh GJPXMY1Vnfvxcj22/N2lFHFPJ2vnnW316GH4YlXHhaEywe1RgmXH7094W7tNpl7Ca04U l3hmdffkqOQb2MtOgnlwGmvk0Kgw7jCiqd1KYON3qIKF+PHL8n6ooU9skhrglBaKqSJe 6yJc3j8P3Lvz0sJjopL0ysnP7Rba6Wq4XC1jjNtxpjOECPSxU+tNc9qciQoFR8CNVHRo AgiqD1RzbocBARmPmcpWs1UOdsAFzlUXd3VyL7ZPXHp+lzxODamQfgjcpR85FKFx9sl3 DOeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhRjuhFUl8g4pMOYebEQvNNg18sV7FaZ7EWvdRUmmPgWQoQ0qy+ v1gfE9+uLFwf/HnsG5wusit6VixHzCa2lYG7tMpf6Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAEy3y79JaWEx5rcUiNxWxkS8o5UfAOUcB341SOKVG7uJzVCg/gBJ26yI7S7Vw6TY6hChF98BHZNIFJsbQPJGg= X-Received: by 10.237.62.200 with SMTP id o8mr28523480qtf.294.1505334955819; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.61.196 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:35:55 -0700 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins Cc: The IESG , Alvaro Retana , ideas@ietf.org, ideas-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:59 -0000 On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: Yes > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If only "Yes, but ..." was a position I could select ... > > I'm really glad to see this going forward - enough to ballot "Yes". > > This looks like a framework that could be used in a number of use cases, and my > "Yes, but ..." is that it's not clear to me, how much analysis of ID/Loc > separation security implications that some folks downstream are going to have > to do, when using this framework. > > I'm remembering an exchange with a document editor on the last telechat that > could be summarized as "we didn't do the work on general security implications > of X, so each usage of X has to do that work itself, rather than pointing to > previous work". OK, if that's where we are, but IDEAS hasn't already done the > same thing (yet). > > I'm looking at deliverables like "Requirements for identity authentication and > authorization service (for GRIDS)" and "Threat model document", so I know > there's SOMEthing in there, but I don't know what else might be required, if > someone wanted to think about the general security implications of GRIDS, and I > note that those deliverables are listed as living drafts or wiki entries, which > doesn't sound like anything GRIDS framework usages would be able to point to, > when they need to look at security implications. > > Is a look at general security implications, in a form that specific framework > usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? >e Spencer, I believe there are two discrete components being championed in IDEAS: One, is mapping system of identifier to locators and the other is introduction of identity mapping. The former looks much more like a routing or name resolution protocol, and the later would be doing identity management and possible collecting PII. There are obviously many security implications to both parts, however I think the threats and sensitivity between these is quite different, i.e. hacking into the ID/loc mapping data base could result in misdirecting packets, hacking into identity store may result in loss of users' privacy. These seem fundamentally different so security considerations should probably be considered independently of each other. Tom > (It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to ask, right?) > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas From nobody Wed Sep 13 13:56:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B8A132697; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:56:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aL2oXxZyUf8j; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 212DF13293A; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DVK04506; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:56:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:56:48 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.191]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.62]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:56:41 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Tom Herbert , Spencer Dawkins CC: Alvaro Retana , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTKO4TIJF5eaYgTEaCd2CdawdzhaKzw0iA//+MDkA= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:56:41 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.143] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.59B99B91.00F9, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 526adaf90ae987a7e879d2cd9edabaeb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:56:53 -0000 > Is a look at general security implications, in a form that specific=20 >framework usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? >e Spencer, I believe there are two discrete components being championed in IDEAS: One, is mapping system of identifier to locators and the other is introduc= tion of identity mapping. The former looks much more like a routing or name= resolution protocol, and the later would be doing identity management and = possible collecting PII. There are obviously many security implications to = both parts, however I think the threats and sensitivity between these is q= uite different, i.e. hacking into the ID/loc mapping data base could result= in misdirecting packets, hacking into identity store may result in loss of= users' privacy. [Uma]: Tom, you summarized well. I would note there is interconnected aspec= t to these 2 items w.r.t security. Identity AUTH can inherently bring secur= ity (and if needed privacy) to Identifier/Location mapping and strengthen t= hat area tremondoesly.=20 However, Identity privacy itself has to be tackled and there are existing = well defined mechanisms for that as discussed earlier in the IDEAS list (po= inter from Diego, is a great example).=20 When we described identity and it's uses here https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01#section-7 , we noted threat analysis a= spect in Section 7 and was reflected in charter too.=20 These seem fundamentally different so security considerations should proba= bly be considered independently of each other. [Uma]: Different but interdependent on some aspects as mentioned above. Tom > (It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to ask,=20 From nobody Wed Sep 13 15:11:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D722D13305C for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OEOohXn5Rhc9 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x229.google.com (mail-qt0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A61813219F for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x229.google.com with SMTP id t46so3870649qtj.2 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y7gumQ7LslbjvOS73pP+Vd6mNKW4cD4tu5xsjPUbxUY=; b=lHSlCijkdvlPFyo9N1zwZY0zr+O89PphgzH24PBYX5yKoXGesG44bfyPk8DBC4I2sr ROt9LEi1lQycjs8xxm0yDBFjNck9KZNO1dX4LoiFFYM5lI1wdP3BzZ8Gwyxt+GK3n0lF 88ipnI9MhPCsY2/ObOzAdDlBlYJYsrydha48yvfPHEEODPTaNiGQooA802omNjwlCf+y CzuTbfQPfSV2TQhmQUhAjCAjsFc6mIGPASmqKvYHFqlNczj/6p20SHzUwVkal3k0bVSf F4qpylSb2N/+7RhRVwDD7TLHmN5iw59Xp0uj7tBI8704fszEiYVORB/zQliRNMtKJ451 kNaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y7gumQ7LslbjvOS73pP+Vd6mNKW4cD4tu5xsjPUbxUY=; b=WjaGdyj9WYBJR39hTnywZMqWM5x8WLlHTGeB/7x8BpaD1o7b9zGIfopZonnT1nI3Tm p0dhKOIrOdTNIMVWzrhlG7k53XQh/jQuyeGAS2N3wQePBaEUklrvNa7bbTDCahxp3VXW LpFydpiA9E1DHURtbXAsQV5N4QBcp1kdJEEycPDq0LLV0pkRy7NAzMwhq/mpCiB+ygO+ 3M387CwvbFriOwMy//B4HKWhTA3g8GlRg5Sp/6m1lH457ApoOybgjsyK6vL8HhB5V2Bw HVzS63UrLnmJEHJQe6CMjTkPos92mlNCHmC/F0IkTU5jPc4i4wstvhZkJhaQmdWDYGkb mP/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiQOZ7IbiQ2dj1MFPMaarzR5TFWRBDGwttfombD3wIBNp7bsvbU 0bSshO8q9VQ7+xculqmPlsNeqqDyDi4wcIf2KUXWSg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAU5h2zLKM+wkt0AMLfIqzUeYvzQTLOQ3MVGbjktS1rWZ7tvU0mfqfMVRdjRpLx0rdhbTOpiD9jZevf4eQe6mw= X-Received: by 10.200.35.247 with SMTP id r52mr14501796qtr.275.1505340692726; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.61.196 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:11:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Uma Chunduri Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Privacy benefits of Identity Was: Re: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:11:35 -0000 On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Uma Chunduri wro= te: > > Is a look at general security implications, in a form that spec= ific > >framework usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? > >e > Spencer, > > I believe there are two discrete components being championed in I= DEAS: > One, is mapping system of identifier to locators and the other is= introduction of identity mapping. The former looks much more like a routin= g or name resolution protocol, and the later would be doing identity manage= ment and possible collecting PII. There are obviously many security implica= tions to both parts, however I think the threats and sensitivity betwe= en these is quite different, i.e. hacking into the ID/loc mapping data base= could result in misdirecting packets, hacking into identity store may resu= lt in loss of users' privacy. > > [Uma]: Tom, you summarized well. I would note there is interconnected asp= ect to these 2 items w.r.t security. Identity AUTH can inherently bring sec= urity (and if needed privacy) to Identifier/Location mapping and strengthen= that area tremondoesly. Uma, I am still trying to understand exactly how identity improves user privacy and doesn't hurt it. Item b. in section 2 of the identity use case draft seems to be the most pertinent description. That reads: "b. Data plane anonymization allows entities to communicate anonymously from the outside observers. Identity provides deanonymization for various data plane ephemeral Identifiers, if required, and enables resolution of which entity is behind these identifiers for legitimate users (entities itself in some cases)." Data plane anonymization exists by virtue of providing a hosts multiple addresses or identifiers and not putting anything in a packets that allow cross correlation. Identity is not required to achieve anonymization. Per the text, identity provides for deanonymization which seems to contradict the goal of anonymization. The text also states that deanonymization would be done "if required". So my question is under what circumstances would deanonymization be required? Thanks, Tom From nobody Wed Sep 13 16:23:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D784124B18 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yzV3-Zeb_BWp for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71C931329AD for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DON45694; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:23:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 00:23:36 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.191]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.62]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:23:31 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Tom Herbert CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Privacy benefits of Identity Was: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTLN1FUwIF6b3hD0G4pY3vCcgIZaKzcT/w Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:23:30 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ED17@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.143] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090202.59B9BDF9.0087, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 04a41721a50b39fa3fc8cd5843418d43 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Privacy benefits of Identity Was: Re: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:35:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ye0D_ywdG_Rt; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7725B126B7E; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DON46741; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:35:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; 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<25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ED17@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:53:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Uma Chunduri Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Privacy benefits of Identity Was: Re: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:53:15 -0000 On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Uma Chunduri wro= te: > > >"b. Data plane anonymization allows entities to communicate ano= nymously from the outside observers. Identity provides deanonymization for= various data plane ephemeral Identifiers, > >if required, and enables resolution of which entity is b= ehind these identifiers for legitimate users (entities itself in some cases= )." > > >Data plane anonymization exists by virtue of providing a hosts m= ultiple addresses or identifiers and not putting anything in a packets that= allow cross correlation. Identity is not required to achieve anonymization= . > >Per the text, identity provides for deanonymization which seems = to contradict the goal of anonymization. The text also states that deanonym= ization would be done "if required". > > >So my question is under what circumstances would deanony= mization be required? > > [Uma]: Great question. > It's possible, in case if receiving entity of the data traffic want's to= control which entities it wants to receive the traffic from (or prioritize= them). > A simple example could be a connected vehicular node/IoT may want to rece= ive traffic from only certain entities (dealer or manufacturer or xyz) upd= ates and their long-lived ID's are > used in the local policy at the receiving end. If one of the legit sendin= g entity uses anonymized identifier; receiving entity might want to de-anon= ymize the same before accepting the traffic - to see if it matches to the= corresponding long-lived Identifier it set the policy for. > Uma, That implies addresses are used as security mechanism, but really there's no security in addresses. They can too easily be spoofed. For security, there's are already existing mechanisms for authentication that are much stronger than any address verification. As for the question about changing long lived identifiers, it seems like that could be accomplished as a protocol between two endpoints. For instance if endpoint A and endpoint B want to communicate they could exchange a list of addresses they should consider to be equivalent through a secure side channel. This doesn't require any interaction with the network infrastructure other than getting multiple address assignments. MP-TCP effectively allows this and is even compatible with existing firewalls. Thanks for the discussion, Tom From nobody Wed Sep 13 20:16:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A5813263F; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:16:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vNVN-R3BIC5Z; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22a.google.com (mail-yw0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C692124F57; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id r85so4622154ywg.1; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9iKVyYZBx77Di/SkeFLFvEnBAz1487nMDmegXbJSsSI=; b=pvmO4keCQmcvgyRIKEuMwwWKOihUOTi0hTBl5s2LvN+ORIA57N+RNgdjjMcbwd0dIR jYizwl81sgwb64frmW5xwoaAUoU8ov/sbXBgMrsda0gasASwyBwKXBWEU8S+gYqHcBWi iOGA07gSvzfsoAciA9ewhcj8EcMWmXL11iRRmylK6+OcrfTsYVb79lk2jKQMcdUCgM1R 6dtAchwa6gT/UVYYomkPi3BLbFXjnInxLp1ujlx7bygxSp9fUcdhqAfmOSnmsOoASnze kaRd0dh65E7T3Zdb4kp5lYpyKfSQZ+/rlWEKrqDE4NcUC9NUngHMwFml30nbqNfpMMI4 FPtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9iKVyYZBx77Di/SkeFLFvEnBAz1487nMDmegXbJSsSI=; b=J5Uny+z26jBIJCLucFbOKDkpBy54uBgI8NUW6tHCe4/KiuIq4/v9KhTRa2HmFusRXi wWyYwNxlvTRpZ/+//SoudblEhFz0erEa2NsdCeTzjWfP8nn/CmM+58danuOEjVbXtfDR jTLFMoHUs4oRSqf7VbQX1PNVoJ3E4G20ywYpA6DWBnOlaj3zBvYsRPBuj7uqDknMiAw3 P6CbFt04K3+YF03pj90u+tRlgtwZ7RUM4/crin1oxv1YN4TLDhlD7SPG/EgLVudZhhCt sjbAeFL/97/Lgm/tmFIgpEkIrd5D+1lnoleGtr/pm6Gna9LKfV0PWJIoQ/5sbMfKQ/Y9 IFkw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUj7X6RvW818MEkree08wbPBT1xMECvHweoQh2pZysiTX7frnNAS YhGsUJ1CCJCRShhw2LTlqhAe81FOKB24jNNBQJw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb4Jqa4CpDIkMpbwEjmvYAcIb+iuCOHI5mIW6q2LK9KPri046PoE78fE8iqkNGB1fcqZI946bqiEv1cnW7e8ULw= X-Received: by 10.37.108.86 with SMTP id h83mr15998121ybc.211.1505359010214; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:16:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.2.15 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:16:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:16:49 -0500 Message-ID: To: Uma Chunduri Cc: Tom Herbert , Alvaro Retana , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148ac3410382205591db54e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 03:16:53 -0000 --001a1148ac3410382205591db54e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" So, responding to Uma's response to Tom's response to my response to the proposed charter (whew!), On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > > Is a look at general security implications, in a form that > specific > >framework usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? > >e > Spencer, > > I believe there are two discrete components being championed in > IDEAS: > One, is mapping system of identifier to locators and the other is > introduction of identity mapping. The former looks much more like a routing > or name resolution protocol, and the later would be doing identity > management and possible collecting PII. There are obviously many security > implications to both parts, however I think the threats and > sensitivity between these is quite different, i.e. hacking into the ID/loc > mapping data base could result in misdirecting packets, hacking into > identity store may result in loss of users' privacy. > Tom's response to me makes sense. > [Uma]: Tom, you summarized well. I would note there is interconnected > aspect to these 2 items w.r.t security. Identity AUTH can inherently bring > security (and if needed privacy) to Identifier/Location mapping and > strengthen that area tremondoesly. > However, Identity privacy itself has to be tackled and there are existing > well defined mechanisms for that as discussed earlier in the IDEAS list > (pointer from Diego, is a great example). > When we described identity and it's uses here https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01#section-7 , we noted threat > analysis aspect in Section 7 and was reflected in charter too. > Uma's response to Tom makes sense. > These seem fundamentally different so security considerations > should probably be considered independently of each other. > > [Uma]: Different but interdependent on some aspects as mentioned above. > So, what I'm not understanding, is that there are two work items, and only one framework deliverable. Is the intention that the identifier/locator mapping system and the identity mapping system are different enough to have different security considerations, but are so tightly interwoven that neither is usable without the other, or with any other mapping system separately, so it makes sense to lump them into one framework? Again, either answer is OK, but if I'm going to ask, now would be the time :-) Spencer Tom > > > (It doesn't have to be, for me to ballot Yes, but I did have to > ask, > --001a1148ac3410382205591db54e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So, responding to Uma's response to Tom's response= to my response to the proposed charter (whew!),
=
On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Uma Chundur= i <uma.chunduri@huawei.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Is a loo= k at general security implications, in a form that specific
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >framework=C2=A0 usages can point to, on the= table for IDEAS?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Spencer,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I believe there are two discrete components bei= ng championed in IDEAS:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 One, is mapping system of identifier to locator= s and the other is introduction of identity mapping. The former looks much = more like a routing or name resolution protocol, and the later would be doi= ng identity management and possible collecting PII. There are obviously man= y security implications to=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 both parts, however I think = the threats and sensitivity between these is quite different, i.e. hacking = into the ID/loc mapping data base could result in misdirecting packets, hac= king into identity store may result in loss of users' privacy.

Tom's response to me makes sense.
=C2=A0
[Uma]: Tom, you summariz= ed well. I would note there is interconnected aspect to these 2 items w.r.t= security. Identity AUTH can inherently bring security (and if needed priva= cy) to Identifier/Location mapping and strengthen that area tremondoesly. However, Identity privacy itself has=C2=A0 to be tackled and there are exis= ting well defined mechanisms for that as discussed earlier in the IDEAS lis= t (pointer from Diego, is a great example).
When we described identity and it's uses here https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ccm-ideas-i= dentity-use-cases-01#section-7 , we noted threat analysis aspect i= n Section 7 and was reflected in charter too.

Uma's response to Tom makes sense.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 These = seem fundamentally different so security considerations should probably be = considered independently of each other.

[Uma]: Different but interdependent on some aspects as mentioned abo= ve.

So, what I'm not understanding,= is that there are two work items, and only one framework deliverable. Is t= he intention that the identifier/locator mapping system and the identity ma= pping system are different enough to have different security considerations= , but are so tightly interwoven that neither is usable without the other, o= r with any other mapping system separately, so it makes sense to lump them = into one framework?

Again, either answer is OK, bu= t if I'm going to ask, now would be the time :-)

Spencer

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tom

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > (It doesn't have to be, for me to ball= ot Yes, but I did have to ask,

--001a1148ac3410382205591db54e-- From nobody Thu Sep 14 08:52:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A572124239; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:52:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kgy2BM89thQx; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9D9F1326F3; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DVL64266; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:52:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:52:17 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.191]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.62]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:52:12 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF CC: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , Alvaro Retana Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTKO4TIJF5eaYgTEaCd2CdawdzhaKzw0iA//+MDkCAAOP0gIAAW0lg Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:52:12 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5F08D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.247.67] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5F08DSJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090201.59BAA5B2.00A2, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 526adaf90ae987a7e879d2cd9edabaeb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SMG0wb-2CkkR; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF76D132A89; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DOO91374; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:49:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:49:56 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.39]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.148]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:49:47 -0700 From: Yingzhen Qu To: Uma Chunduri , Spencer Dawkins at IETF CC: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , Alvaro Retana Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTKO4Tj339+NdFTEScRhyLfTFAPaKzw0iAgAAFzYCAAGo1gIAA0w4A//+ZXvA= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:49:47 +0000 Message-ID: <594D005A3CB0724DB547CF3E9A9E810BF0FEE5@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5F08D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5F08D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.99] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_594D005A3CB0724DB547CF3E9A9E810BF0FEE5sjceml521mbxchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090205.59BAB336.00E3, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.39, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 74b791927aac8637b2798fa1bbc3e431 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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2017 10:14:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:14:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: Uma Chunduri , Alvaro Retana , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:14:57 -0000 On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 8:16 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > So, responding to Uma's response to Tom's response to my response to the > proposed charter (whew!), > > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Uma Chunduri > wrote: >> >> > Is a look at general security implications, in a form that >> specific >> >framework usages can point to, on the table for IDEAS? >> >e >> Spencer, >> >> I believe there are two discrete components being championed in >> IDEAS: >> One, is mapping system of identifier to locators and the other is >> introduction of identity mapping. The former looks much more like a routing >> or name resolution protocol, and the later would be doing identity >> management and possible collecting PII. There are obviously many security >> implications to both parts, however I think the threats and sensitivity >> between these is quite different, i.e. hacking into the ID/loc mapping data >> base could result in misdirecting packets, hacking into identity store may >> result in loss of users' privacy. > > > Tom's response to me makes sense. > >> >> [Uma]: Tom, you summarized well. I would note there is interconnected >> aspect to these 2 items w.r.t security. Identity AUTH can inherently bring >> security (and if needed privacy) to Identifier/Location mapping and >> strengthen that area tremondoesly. >> However, Identity privacy itself has to be tackled and there are existing >> well defined mechanisms for that as discussed earlier in the IDEAS list >> (pointer from Diego, is a great example). >> When we described identity and it's uses here >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01#section-7 >> , we noted threat analysis aspect in Section 7 and was reflected in charter >> too. > > > Uma's response to Tom makes sense. > >> >> These seem fundamentally different so security considerations >> should probably be considered independently of each other. >> >> [Uma]: Different but interdependent on some aspects as mentioned above. > > > So, what I'm not understanding, is that there are two work items, and only > one framework deliverable. Is the intention that the identifier/locator > mapping system and the identity mapping system are different enough to have > different security considerations, but are so tightly interwoven that > neither is usable without the other, or with any other mapping system > separately, so it makes sense to lump them into one framework? > Spencer, The underlying mapping system (basically specialized key/value store with protocol) is common between the two use cases. However, the these cases are independent in a least the sense that identifier/locator protocols (as well as those for network virtualization) require identifier->locator mapping but don't require any concept of identity. I believe, the need for the ID/loc mapping is well understood at this point, whereas the concept and rationalization for identity in this area are still emerging. Both of these are valid items to pursue, but I hope that a WG can minimize dependencies so that development of the ID/loc mapping system does not become a long, drawn out multi-year process. If this can be done in a single framework then that would be okay I think. Tom From nobody Thu Sep 14 10:27:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B6D1326FE; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id biaUOE8NxZTc; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22a.google.com (mail-pg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33149126BF0; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id c137so6520pga.11; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aaheTzI4FUT7gpLu7pWa3CfsPhNGPPFnFj89L6X81hY=; b=haMVItmPSO47sQuEGkdBrtAn50nCxSKESBkzHLND3XyN6DDfZZI3bTMtXH8cXAr5u9 QhaRjmDu1W3yOeEVPYPLDrsWq4LjT24CsfzxRktB3aIdHajRWcNrIZVpgwitZGncMNf3 UHA70qUEe2aDKQj7iRq2+mW38gynlDIQGzah5Wz1eJNMdOQWp02QzQyKs/14sw102sTF m7UCeKzVpVmLXhPMHptWtIUNS72bU7MQmIjFzTJ/EGKxFeyfX3Bo15jeHY40y2eneT/3 msJHpE0dvhboucNMhqRaRyu6Kb9awXzPs6PB7vrGiFYyLKGEbdnaFEeE/8/8Ey5WztFD kXbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aaheTzI4FUT7gpLu7pWa3CfsPhNGPPFnFj89L6X81hY=; b=m4nWmRMnArHU/PgaxnfYewzw0+dbEDuIp22sfMRynusVK2sHycpad/xXDFTLEHJSbY t1WOSAO7PdHJ532aq0gpYYzQOufW5dPcDzbx9OmFmBD6LV7vSXcMpAS76viySo7kBBEY BejJrYO8K4r7sotAmQFCPAjif1K64z2wK2G6FfV45Q9NV7WQA6Acn6dhJF1FC3iCIoip F4JJbvhELVJnS6hDqjM2U9/1D/eQU1mf72B/KOnAh50+EEIL9AzKNd6s5yzFD8/1gYeF tps/j+TUPrvLCwYZrg1Ch1DZ0VcdCbi/m1dVkpWQPUcZYvrkPxlDUkL6ojiCV48Irdo5 7FeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjclADdcRGYfYmq9AhfyNipK+lDb9pnf3xEGpxPbljVcAUWmXUM cul+dZZ2AwHw5gkNHo8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb4xCmYcxWUmSqiy5AzBACNyPi/Pr0QO9qOcVWSSVuas7scCoKqvXleqp6z1L6Dn0jO6/+Yc+Q== X-Received: by 10.99.104.138 with SMTP id d132mr11265351pgc.268.1505410020754; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.197.31.157] (173-11-119-245-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [173.11.119.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r16sm32021601pfk.178.2017.09.14.10.26.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:27:01 -0700 Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Alvaro Retana , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , Uma Chunduri Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> To: Tom Herbert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:27:03 -0000 > The underlying mapping system (basically specialized key/value store > with protocol) is common between the two use cases. However, the these > cases are independent in a least the sense that identifier/locator > protocols (as well as those for network virtualization) require > identifier->locator mapping but don't require any concept of identity. > I believe, the need for the ID/loc mapping is well understood at this > point, whereas the concept and rationalization for identity in this > area are still emerging. Both of these are valid items to pursue, but > I hope that a WG can minimize dependencies so that development of the > ID/loc mapping system does not become a long, drawn out multi-year > process. If this can be done in a single framework then that would be > okay I think. Agree 100%. Dino From nobody Thu Sep 14 11:40:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E627132397; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zKrGEbI7ErVj; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x234.google.com (mail-yw0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0D491320D9; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x234.google.com with SMTP id w9so131726ywi.11; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QE1fYZLSHvxyUISxnhBUCKIrV3yx5Q80ArVeEA9vW0A=; b=LwpF2Yebptvzg4uauKYjQUM7ZyU52IX1Qj/yg59M+uwUpuIt5giX7rJgCdRJXHKAAU nHLP4hrKMW90/jnXI+sf1kI1UKy9OkgI/NAJEpexjF4vTVj7/2wEbq2NTw1Py2Rk3kqM vriHmTkUsAets0tyqMuJZgN+TuGHlcVHPv/PFU7F4Tn5gd7ksh7h3KN/el1gar8H1lvx lf+/g2qHP3v2K1NSUu6skuIxNkoSBOHVwxP7HZNL1Lp4NkLZPPzjCl7jtuKBfXZ1SzBj qDy4ksnM1V6//CoN31prkXldnhcv5q/ALkjijXE4j7UBFGGgMEnbFFu+mYTTcohcUu1o Y7oQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QE1fYZLSHvxyUISxnhBUCKIrV3yx5Q80ArVeEA9vW0A=; b=N78aop/S4x/QSZ5qNMCaCJCAzD2X8dvZgAjJHrJO9alBVoN/l7XhiXi18VUZet19Tp B8cDQ7HlRUWjzEX5Ki8TvJIHBe91GarhXPHeNHHg8ZZB5r6bAmbG9THpsQJHlvnTz9OV FSD86mKTQlzaj3I5e16JjPrk0/UbvxWNjQ47yE9th3UYVHN7MfutdFTTejt+QB0Z32w4 qOqYv5OpuoiFjPFRFFvYpGvRGBOtJyMHK2XZIW70v3iHGxjzU4/1Hp5VvjNmA/KIRvZA 4ORqrMgyOgfxQ6pk7y8OVR//J/ct5b4AuvjBLH8iQJuho0cSPNv4pIxECeMuV09i4SRJ j0og== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiAWpkSqlB8EmQr/vXKa5fq5YYj6BTwt3mBA2X1BimzAVh8nFx6 PW1/51cgsBmZq3qusyPTM2s4t6b2ScTOU2v5u54= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5h+xnRMdqWhxWjWmo12jjNcINHHYrStDG9OWtyu4okjd+9DIYZtjcvCXj0Y++c/WThLH3T+lD8Cj84YWNORSs= X-Received: by 10.13.232.7 with SMTP id r7mr19648696ywe.0.1505414440897; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:40:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.2.15 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:40:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:40:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: Dino Farinacci Cc: Tom Herbert , Alvaro Retana , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , Uma Chunduri Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c087d6afd52f105592a9c44" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 18:40:43 -0000 --94eb2c087d6afd52f105592a9c44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Tom and Dino, On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote: > > The underlying mapping system (basically specialized key/value store > > with protocol) is common between the two use cases. However, the these > > cases are independent in a least the sense that identifier/locator > > protocols (as well as those for network virtualization) require > > identifier->locator mapping but don't require any concept of identity. > > I believe, the need for the ID/loc mapping is well understood at this > > point, whereas the concept and rationalization for identity in this > > area are still emerging. Both of these are valid items to pursue, but > > I hope that a WG can minimize dependencies so that development of the > > ID/loc mapping system does not become a long, drawn out multi-year > > process. If this can be done in a single framework then that would be > > okay I think. > > Agree 100%. > > Dino > You guys are thinking about the stuff I was wondering about. I'll trust that the right thing happens. Thanks, Spencer, who has stayed as a Yes ballot through this conversation ... --94eb2c087d6afd52f105592a9c44 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Tom and Dino,

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Dino Farinacci <farin= acci@gmail.com> wrote:
> The underlying mapping system (basically specialized key/= value store
> with protocol) is common between the two use cases. However, the these=
> cases are independent in a least the sense that identifier/locator
> protocols (as well as those for network virtualization) require
> identifier->locator mapping but don't require any concept of id= entity.
> I believe, the need for the ID/loc mapping is well understood at this<= br> > point, whereas the concept and rationalization for identity in this > area are still emerging. Both of these are valid items to pursue, but<= br> > I hope that a WG can minimize dependencies so that development of the<= br> > ID/loc mapping system does not become a long, drawn out multi-year
> process. If this can be done in a single framework then that would be<= br> > okay I think.

Agree 100%.

Dino

You guys are thinkin= g about the stuff I was wondering about. I'll trust that the right thin= g happens.

Thanks,

Spence= r, who has stayed as a Yes ballot through this conversation ...=C2=A0
=
--94eb2c087d6afd52f105592a9c44-- From nobody Thu Sep 14 11:43:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66036132397; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7eYx5z8eWtWP; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x231.google.com (mail-pg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D8641320D9; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x231.google.com with SMTP id c137so124198pga.11; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=R0qZeWh35+PlzSgueNuHravxhMj868799JQG/Ilsk2E=; b=ZlE6AfmApmq+rqaOHctDTBwjD1YX+Qz0RtV1RpPwFqOzwuVnQ7Yu9OQxEk4YI0Hjz7 jEIKjivseFXS7io1gf35r7xUzkgOUFA8K284MY70rJTrQu4WVllPLRZUyrvLVkDVgPvF pjL0pGK0EwnZYRhSENwsDIvmyNnf6IVV5/bek6L3fhclhKYCaUdrEBhfGzGT/be12aox r4VmNKYPCNsbs+9ObOTuqDdIFKXInLB4LCD/PbbLEJtKLl0u1s2aeAIHtjEzQq3dCQm6 oZ8uENYLWO3qRQMAcqHZDEyr6inj+x0xOQ5p5cCg2DeT8tHqZ/voieNGB4dt0PDFtbCQ Gjpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=R0qZeWh35+PlzSgueNuHravxhMj868799JQG/Ilsk2E=; b=UQ1u/rSbnWddPzfe6gyhczFhRUEj7b8+MK+DBk1bKQwjIGgdWENeqMmQeCUT1dw+2D g+9SL8dv3Wd+7SX2gXDsno7LnEBTo/WIqUdhVHx/TDL5wqdGQWTsKck801Pj93zryiYM GWzoHulQYF4a7An7yPaOCxZlRoM59OIqtMoaGuFjjCwiU0nl7kzwwyJmDHrq7zjBzt+7 q+gbtjvBnhRI4q1h80Xobrh715xvrUmIlmxZgdHszCc5ypeasu56hsoKlO72sJLlGZ9s WhCkKV5SzGUcAwtnz6Ev2ElqsuUO9WkIPimhSrxqA50GV1f19KW1g/saow9iaPYSNNE2 gwsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgm6gIhUdU6BrXBeGU2T8WtaDyxK9nY/wKbD5S2xWbHk8htX8s0 yeJ1jWjVf9tTXQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb6xxxQSrQA6k6cOEfFKTNuPs1gEkVC2+4Qxv+thi9nmYq3FZ9SQYXS71dCGYr25OuyEugB85g== X-Received: by 10.99.109.13 with SMTP id i13mr22597072pgc.349.1505414619718; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.197.31.157] (173-11-119-245-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [173.11.119.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y16sm42846220pge.92.2017.09.14.11.43.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:37 -0700 Cc: Tom Herbert , Alvaro Retana , "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , Uma Chunduri Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <150490809267.17244.96544246533076816.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F572685401A5ECBC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 18:43:41 -0000 > You guys are thinking about the stuff I was wondering about. I'll = trust that the right thing happens. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Spencer, who has stayed as a Yes ballot through this conversation =E2=80= =A6=20 =46rom a LISP perspective, you do a mapping system lookup on some opaque = key that returns a record. If the opaque key is an Identity that returns = a Identifier record, so be it. And if the opaque key is an Identifier = (EID) that returns a Location (RLOC) record, then so be it. We can have the mapping system take the former lookup and return both = records. So a two stage lookup can be avoided. Dino From nobody Fri Sep 22 15:41:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD7A13303F for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sFMyqs4KoatH for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x231.google.com (mail-qk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61330132C32 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id s132so2389623qke.7 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=xdqFBjrXrYkfexltEWPNNq1KvWU18jSv42CBYfWcij8=; b=HORJ9uJIPVTacHtdwEFH9Bc1Nd2KEbFvIPFD39Vy9vQ86W5QGVM/T3WXl+PXKgynss FW9K0GyY5hOj0Kx9XsH0ujr0eXfpBtdKE67I6wtuyosh2a0YZRVIoDuA6e7xFPe/gfqd spoK0iOZCW0PXkYEXOCM1zon02V6rMWbuBlzfyz24r2viWAq/xHmvg7ifoidf7aUOspo Hc0SEUECnCThcdO3sF/tI1Knhe1oi8PM5Ykd5qkCnTGH3xO4Zp9uhn+B//t+jQvjq829 hJ+cPM5l605CV/Wujj2b/uGU3s73DptTZ5GXUkeE4iir9lxwNiO8255IMKfuioKrNte3 WPrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=xdqFBjrXrYkfexltEWPNNq1KvWU18jSv42CBYfWcij8=; b=Sai64hDcLpcycqz2vrUE6rdsnWNT0nuzOU+AqbMRp0dnJNd+MPa+tNZ/rT5QJAQi8y ASUaoGR81ED0Q3wlZC5ft88dhCKz8diQ/o4/ocky+TTphL40YpQzOGfFwuvrJN0j/3Ll QVmWHauXLMKKMjRSgY+85nS6IzJsIJDhSIzG8Wy+ETzMOTEFKEtcqwfbj+GEi04/Amsw hbU6MthbItiSZ11zq/8OCP2dv9hV44nJZUmsGsg3wzc06TwUzU1jOpLQG2CYg02BoiTl +UMJvMA6lDjGAQa2Zj1GeWlyW+wEnpJ90oBjX68KY0rwYtWB9cFsSbfOWfw0eXAwewN9 W5tQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjUpBweZ9C7CypYqKadjqERhVcEr/PwSpGEmHuJ3u+JbSUBXILz WCZW5VStQidc5BghE1AWnuNGgrfBvh1kfNy9X/hT7YFQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAjg1cAVsaY1f3LORJQos8qAnKdXKbIDrcL4POZ7EfzdXWT0AUgv4WoTzqYDxeAy80NbkA17nyRfLs/KoABmm8= X-Received: by 10.55.113.67 with SMTP id m64mr916100qkc.51.1506120095262; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.61.196 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Herbert Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:41:34 -0700 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Public identity data X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:41:37 -0000 Hello, >From draft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01 security: "The IDy policy SHOULD be limited in scope and only public part of the policy SHOULD be sharable to other GRIDS Providers. Storage and Security of the data itself at the GRIDS-provider is critical. A separate threat analysis for security aspects of private/public portions of the IDy data SHOULD be done once the architecture is evolved." What part of identity data is considered public? In particular is the mapping of identifier to identity public data? Thanks, Tom From nobody Sat Sep 23 09:04:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD2B5132D96 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gzrPdS4Uk1Lo for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x229.google.com (mail-qt0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 223BE132351 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x229.google.com with SMTP id b1so3594330qtc.4 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2pkYfnULP+6RsDUT0Gy8WkzWB8Wt+apT9g9Dn7r8ukY=; b=s9SpB5rR4FG+tbwKplpe8yE439GIaEkvRKzV67m66mreEwLAKHq39NZKOZ0PGtp5hv 1dqKB/2lEDgyoZwgZgKpC1sYhV4w74ezWX4oXr0hbPDbAf3pohcM/M5MrGOkRnK6cB1f ZVt5fSbK4TGTeanQYz6WA/jdXi8wDffO2HWek8JHL8p40XwyZW4xfBujP2CKUKQnuhsy G+ZmAQ4Rb8/Aq2RmvOxM/94rnlESCgHHExVE7mhTKFgYyCM5SJaL+dlU4sCBsnTisbrG ExK86EgWwXmhwZ6vK1k7elsPhRx4sYMaB+NfrbNjqv9/truwdR8ium3ZL82klNLkxlBv r9tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2pkYfnULP+6RsDUT0Gy8WkzWB8Wt+apT9g9Dn7r8ukY=; b=ICh138ozohQMCDhmWjYYdrghsy2DIxo8mp/8y46o2OMcOc6qLr2V7qX4bQDcdKLBDd NZuI1A46flfVW5vtOOYCI0MT4cnaT+1mFCH5sD3K1Rkut3TESXSo2zzAnTo2ad0f33dv YV2E9C24Zk5ub7CemuhdtJt6zG1sIkBOELw+NF22cy4m25BAm1TMEbKQGxdGLj2g8PRt PUWYprsSsNzoviHeo9TUtqJMbhJIEj9xgpDXyxv+VY7ecKMh21Uoe6+ldKJOwc2N/qrv V7KCPSxLbDhav5ztft/mZaHxQ9EDbf9YKkcKbs8r2KZnlP929iIvW7F8Bg+A4QmDc4v1 8EBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUj6E2eouogwBnuflWPkmBOsQ4ZNOp1eWIpXepjRi0blQh8WdOaf QuykzzghMgqFR9Kz3MrI2juKT5orcVTyVdF+WZF6QpU/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAt6lFxn1//vPY+VyiE5082YvSZgb6Yks1ssvQeVAoJwyPUZsDFFnwxV4RAcyEq61LO0YBgWLEOGsWw6pfqB2g= X-Received: by 10.200.22.105 with SMTP id x38mr3996411qtk.108.1506182693997; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.61.196 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:04:53 -0700 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Concerns of privacy and identity X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 16:04:57 -0000 Hello, I still have deep concerns about the identity concepts in IDEAS and the potential for abuse and breaking users' fundamental privacy and anonymity. I find the last paragraph is section 4.1 of draft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01 to be particularly worrisome. Reading this, I don't see how it's not describing a global database of individual users' identities on the Internet that governments will be able access at their discretion . A key sentence is: "to convey an authorized network entity who is behind a given (ephemeral) IDf that is visible on the wire." The "who" could be construed as meaning individuals here. "authorized network entity" could mean anyone in the path including governments that would assume they are self-authorized to track users. The rest of the lines in the paragraph mentions "legitimate need to know" and " Legitimate parties include ... regulatory authorities". What is legitimate is subjective-- what one party considers a legitimate need to know, another may not. Regulatory authority pretty much means government. I believe the identity effort has good intentions and there may be real benefits. Perhaps the idea is that a policy will be articulated on who the authorized parties are and what the authorized uses of the data. The obvious problem with that is that IETF, nor anyone else, can enforce policy across the Internet. Besides that, it's almost becoming a daily occurrence that databases with personally identifying information is hacked-- a global database of Internet users would be subject to similar attacks. It seems to me that the only guaranteed way prevent misuse of identity is to either build the mechanism such that misuse is provably impossible, or to not build a mechanism at all. In any case, I suggest the following be added to the charter: "IDEAS will not create a protocol, mechanism, or database that records or disseminates identities of individuals or any other personally identifiable information. IDEAS will not create any mechanism that could allow a third party in communications to track packets back to individual users." Thanks, Tom From nobody Mon Sep 25 18:48:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8381345EA for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 18:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L-VP1X8tfG1R for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 18:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A482132D18 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 18:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DWF36116; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 01:48:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 02:48:06 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.207]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 18:48:03 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Concerns of privacy and identity Thread-Index: AQHTNIW9Ge81i/0Hm0K3mo/9CARZYqLGQhPA Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 01:48:03 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EAA5342@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.59C9B1D7.00D2, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.175, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: c1ce0f1bf6c139fb8df29d08c6a54292 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Concerns of privacy and identity X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 01:48:12 -0000 Hi Tom, Couple of replies inline, On a general level, performing a detailed analysis of implications on anony= mity and privacy are part of the charter. I think this is the context in = which we should be having this discussion, i.e. to perform the analysis. I= don't think we need updates to the charter (that we just converged on); it= is already covered. =20 >From a personal perspective, I certainly have as big concerns about privacy= as a private citizen as anybody else. The ability to provide greater priv= acy while protecting myself against attackers who want to phish/impersonate= /otherwise attack me is from my perspective a very important motivator for = this work. The current state of the art isn't so great from this perspecti= ve, or is it? Let's work on providing some better alternatives. I think = in IDEAS we can make interesting contributions here and by all means we wil= l need to include a detailed analysis. And we can absolutely update wordin= g in draft-cc-ideas-identity-use-cases as needed. =20 Regards --- Alex -----Original Message----- From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 9:05 AM To: ideas@ietf.org Subject: [Ideas] Concerns of privacy and identity Hello, I still have deep concerns about the identity concepts in IDEAS and the pot= ential for abuse and breaking users' fundamental privacy and anonymity. I find the last paragraph is section 4.1 of draft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01 to be particularly worrisome. Reading this, I don't see how it's not describing a global database of indi= vidual users' identities on the Internet that governments will be able acce= ss at their discretion . =20 Really we are talking about endpoints here. I think many of the concerns t= hat you raise concern peoples personally identifiable information like soci= al security or passport numbers. This is what is needed nor implied here. = =20 A service provider may of course still have a customer database, with custo= mers' private information, credit card information, etc. A SP today is ab= le to correlate this information with your phone number, with your IP lease= information, with your port information. All of this is orthogonal to IDE= AS. =20 A key sentence is: "to convey an authorized network entity who is behind a given (ephemeral) IDf that is visible on the wire." The "who" could be construed as meaning individuals here. "authorized netwo= rk entity" could mean anyone in the path including governments that would a= ssume they are self-authorized to track users. The rest of the lines in the paragraph mentions "legitimate need to know" a= nd " Legitimate parties include ... regulatory authorities". What is legitimate is subjective-- what one party considers a legitimate ne= ed to know, another may not. Regulatory authority pretty much means governm= ent. The implication behind a system like GRIDS is that an end user has a= trust relationship with their network provider. So, if you don't trust yo= ur network provider, there is an issue, and in that way, clearly there is p= otential for abuse. You should probably stop using your mobile phone servi= ce as well - how do you know Verizon does not share your information (incl= uding your customer records and current location) in real time with the gov= ernment or with cyber criminals? =20 Legitimate uses can include uses that are needed to provide a service featu= re, for example accounting and charging, or providing security features suc= h as protection against impersonation, both people who try to impersonate y= ou, and people who try to impersonate someone else when they contact you. = =20 In addition to the network provider, there is everybody else. This is wher= e we find a lot of potential attack vectors and security threats, and we sh= ould be able to protect our privacy and remain anonymous. So, the contribu= tion of IDEAS will be to provide greater privacy/anonymity/protection again= st outside threats and observers. =20 So, how can we better word this in the draft to bring this across? =20 I believe the identity effort has good intentions and there may be real ben= efits. Perhaps the idea is that a policy will be articulated on who the aut= horized parties are and what the authorized uses of the data. The obvious p= roblem with that is that IETF, nor anyone else, can enforce policy across t= he Internet. Besides that, it's almost becoming a daily occurrence that dat= abases with personally identifying information is hacked-- a global databas= e of Internet users would be subject to similar attacks. It seems to me that the only guaranteed way prevent misuse of identity is t= o either build the mechanism such that misuse is provably impossible, or to= not build a mechanism at all. Proving that misuse for a mechanism will be impossible will be a ver= y high bar to clear. We should provide detailed analysis and security cons= iderations, but not make this an entrance criteria. In any case, I suggest the following be added to the charter: "IDEAS will not create a protocol, mechanism, or database that records or d= isseminates identities of individuals or any other personally identifiable = information. IDEAS will not create any mechanism that could allow a third p= arty in communications to track packets back to individual users." =20 I don't think we need an addition to the charter. We will provide a detail= ed analysis of privacy etc ramifications, which is already contained in the= charter. =20 Thanks, Tom _______________________________________________ Ideas mailing list Ideas@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas From nobody Wed Sep 27 14:26:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietf.org Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17D413507D; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:26:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Deborah Brungard To: "The IESG" Cc: aretana@cisco.com, ideas-chairs@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150654758569.32532.11741500907491960401.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 14:26:25 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Deborah Brungard's Yes on charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 21:26:26 -0000 Deborah Brungard has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not a Spencer "but", but I'm voting a Yes only as the scope is initially for a framework document only. Yes, there is a lot of interest in the industry in this "problem" so it will be good for IETF to evaluate it. But, the use cases are very diverse and it is not clear if a common approach will be achievable. The group needs to closely coordinate with LISP as LISP is already considering similar use cases and LISP has a long history with this "problem". From nobody Wed Sep 27 20:26:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietf.org Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B064132D18; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 20:26:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: aretana@cisco.com, ideas-chairs@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150656918358.13632.8901471235240437918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 20:26:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Eric Rescorla's No Record on charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 03:26:24 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: No Record When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The privacy text in this charter seems pretty week. We're spending a lot of effort right now to deal with the privacy impacts of our existing protocol that maps text names to IP addresses (DNS), so we don't want to recapitulate that one layer down. I think it needs to say something about how a major part of the framework is defining the privacy requirements and how to meet them. I'm not going to push "block" for external review, but I do expect to raise this issue at chartering time. From nobody Thu Sep 28 06:16:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828B61344EA; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:16:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uuawkYodBzK3; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EC83120720; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:16:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1106; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1506604577; x=1507814177; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=ncyahm3q28O8J4aYI9SEI9J4T4EHM0Pfexpd7On2+yU=; b=KdlseIrAV7HhEd7DnxzQ4owZ35hEWrqZAsltrVVbgjl+YTICh9OctLVm 1g+fedRdN7ANtPl0sDCXQd0TTXs0KlS9jgI89Oz2hl9nDzohrbJrzruKh h9+lk7o9Y9RCHeHYyyhLRWZDPZd23oCjhDOdMeWxw8+RoaDIGNSzENNiA M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D3AQBA9cxZ/4gNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1yBUicHg3GZfpozCoU7AhqEBlcBAgEBAQEBAmsohRkGIxFFEAI?= =?us-ascii?q?BCA4MAiYCAgIwFRACBAENBYoxpmyCJ4sDAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBH?= =?us-ascii?q?YEOgh2CAoFRghWCfYgXL4IxBYoSjj+IVwKUXpMGlSACERkBgTgBV4EOeBVbAYc?= =?us-ascii?q?Kdod1gRABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,450,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="9372109" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 28 Sep 2017 13:16:16 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8SDGGmr032060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:16:16 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 08:16:15 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 08:16:15 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Eric Rescorla , The IESG CC: "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's No Record on charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTOAmQfP36OoEvMkGjlJ0y1fP2s6LKWJ2A Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:16:15 +0000 Message-ID: <8697F1BF-E19C-438B-9BC8-DE65D57F6118@cisco.com> References: <150656918358.13632.8901471235240437918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150656918358.13632.8901471235240437918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3676DC9A8AD0F0438F4B097BD6A4E901@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Eric Rescorla's No Record on charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:16:20 -0000 SGkhDQoNCknigJlsbCBhZGQgc29tZSB0ZXh0IGJlZm9yZSBzdGFydGluZyBleHRlcm5hbCByZXZp ZXcuDQoNClRoYW5rcyENCg0KQWx2YXJvLg0KDQpPbiA5LzI3LzE3LCAxMToyNiBQTSwgIkVyaWMg UmVzY29ybGEiIDxla3JAcnRmbS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpDT01NRU5U Og0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpUaGUgcHJpdmFjeSB0ZXh0IGluIHRoaXMgY2hhcnRlciBzZWVt cyBwcmV0dHkgd2Vlay4gV2UncmUgc3BlbmRpbmcgYSBsb3Qgb2YNCmVmZm9ydCByaWdodCBub3cg dG8gZGVhbCB3aXRoIHRoZSBwcml2YWN5IGltcGFjdHMgb2Ygb3VyIGV4aXN0aW5nIHByb3RvY29s IHRoYXQNCm1hcHMgdGV4dCBuYW1lcyB0byBJUCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgKEROUyksIHNvIHdlIGRvbid0 IHdhbnQgdG8gcmVjYXBpdHVsYXRlIHRoYXQNCm9uZSBsYXllciBkb3duLiBJIHRoaW5rIGl0IG5l ZWRzIHRvIHNheSBzb21ldGhpbmcgYWJvdXQgaG93IGEgbWFqb3IgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUNCmZyYW1l d29yayBpcyBkZWZpbmluZyB0aGUgcHJpdmFjeSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgYW5kIGhvdyB0byBtZWV0 IHRoZW0uIEknbSBub3QNCmdvaW5nIHRvIHB1c2ggImJsb2NrIiBmb3IgZXh0ZXJuYWwgcmV2aWV3 LCBidXQgSSBkbyBleHBlY3QgdG8gcmFpc2UgdGhpcyBpc3N1ZQ0KYXQgY2hhcnRlcmluZyB0aW1l Lg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Thu Sep 28 06:37:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietf.org Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF599132F65; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:37:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kathleen Moriarty To: "The IESG" Cc: aretana@cisco.com, ideas-chairs@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150660583574.13768.16265986360409791782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:37:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Kathleen Moriarty's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:37:16 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd like to see an explicit mention of security in the charter text itself in terms of how the metadata will be protected or that it will be protected in some way. While the threats draft is helpful, the WG should be bound to consider security and provide it with this identifier/locator service. From nobody Thu Sep 28 07:02:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4D01331BA; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:02:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7OMF52rhgmiE; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B1111320DC; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:02:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1084; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1506607349; x=1507816949; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=YBfS6AmmZxkuc0WLIiLJhgyQUeZxOjsy3hVss2W9aLY=; b=jzAzqNGhyjCexf2lbzyDE4w1zQrfLIpta3os7AvI1AXtpma0417Liv0I oge8+i8P56k6GPQOvxsaim+x6zjQHBohXVLbpzgK5fcFEvhrie9bVcVvU lf04RdyOgscyRnvgfP+7saDI2GoYVUElh0Rh76YXxujgUXNYJzm9zGYHx w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D4AQBfAM1Z/5pdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgy8tgVInB4NxmX6KOI97CoU7AhqEBlcBAgEBAQEBAmsohRkGIxF?= =?us-ascii?q?FEAIBCBoCJgICAh8RFRACBAENBYoZAxWmcoInhzwNgzsBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEdgQ6CHYICgVGCFYJ9gl6CJjqCWS+CMQWKEo4/iBs8Ao9lhHmTBox?= =?us-ascii?q?siDQCERkBgTgBV4EOeBVbAYcKdgGHdIEQAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,450,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="9938941" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Sep 2017 14:02:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8SE2Sxn007725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:02:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:02:27 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Kathleen Moriarty , The IESG CC: "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Kathleen Moriarty's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHTOF7ntytdiPRVokiGeLoOLml+nqLKZNqA Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:02:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9942C847-93A9-4B7A-B5AE-6975E30581FB@cisco.com> References: <150660583574.13768.16265986360409791782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150660583574.13768.16265986360409791782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1D3ABE15ACEE9940A853453DEF5755E8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Kathleen Moriarty's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:06:23 -0000 Thanks, Alvaro! I think that would be a big improvement, but maybe adding in the word requirements so that it sticks a bit more in the resulting work. How about: - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, authorization requirements and protection of any metadata. On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > Hi Kathleen! > > I agree. Do you want to suggest something, or would something line this be ok: > > - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, authorization and protection of any metadata. > > Thanks! > > Alvaro. > > > On 9/28/17, 9:37 AM, "Kathleen Moriarty" wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I'd like to see an explicit mention of security in the charter text itself in > terms of how the metadata will be protected or that it will be protected in > some way. While the threats draft is helpful, the WG should be bound to > consider security and provide it with this identifier/locator service. > > > -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Thu Sep 28 07:08:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D9F13318B; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:08:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dkr-wcE6Pk6y; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D81613314B; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:08:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=634; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1506607690; x=1507817290; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=1R1u94Ism4FDqa4QwQx8XyLxJZLXuWKlwqt0HdUmGnE=; b=I5MNcWHxCd1LtKgaSS0/0Z/2bFy67G+QUHK//0FeQhZu3+1p0YPTttOj pZAzhwLSItfae6bChAvJIXkkCtjYolVQgkCNOv7525hwpo+wVkSXEhBsZ 210tKqCSJf++wiA+GTe4ZFdJUhTQ/N4OEdjk0m9ao7OjpQAAqYgEUkpOE A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AMAQCHAc1Z/4gNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1yBUicHg3GKH49fgVSIZI1pghIKhTsCGoQGPxgBAgEBAQEBAQF?= =?us-ascii?q?rKIUZBiMRRRACAQgaAiYCAgIfERUQAgQOBYoZAxWmboInhzwNgzsBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgQ6CHYICgVGCFQuCcoJehTkvgjEFoGw8Ao9lhHmBe5E?= =?us-ascii?q?LjGyINAIRGQGBOAEfOIEOeBVbAYcKdgGHdIEQAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,450,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="299238561" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 28 Sep 2017 14:08:09 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v8SE89tA026015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:08:09 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:08:09 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:08:08 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Kathleen Moriarty CC: "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Kathleen Moriarty's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: (with BLOCK) Thread-Index: AQHTOF7ntytdiPRVokiGeLoOLml+nqLKZNqAgABD9QD//72iAA== Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:08:08 +0000 Message-ID: <7694F37C-9356-4771-8CF7-6910F286BC3C@cisco.com> References: <150660583574.13768.16265986360409791782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9942C847-93A9-4B7A-B5AE-6975E30581FB@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Kathleen Moriarty's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:08:03 -0000 Thanks, I cleared! On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > Done! :-) > > On 9/28/17, 10:06 AM, "iesg on behalf of Kathleen Moriarty" wrote: > > Thanks, Alvaro! > > I think that would be a big improvement, but maybe adding in the word > requirements so that it sticks a bit more in the resulting work. How > about: > > - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, > authorization requirements and protection of any metadata. > > > -- Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Fri Sep 29 08:49:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5D01331C1; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:49:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KCpzed0vN93j; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C497E1331D7; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913F36235F; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 9NK3BVcTWnBl; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A64BA6235C; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:49:05 -0400 (EDT) To: Kathleen Moriarty , "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG References: <150660583574.13768.16265986360409791782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9942C847-93A9-4B7A-B5AE-6975E30581FB@cisco.com> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:48:51 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Kathleen Moriarty's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-03: (with BLOCK) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 15:49:17 -0000 Thank you Kathleen. To me this was such a given, that I did not even consider it to put into the charter. My bad. What work I have personally done in this direction was to use HIP as the meta-data transport so it was protected. But in this more 'open' approach, it will have to be more expllicit. Bob On 09/28/2017 10:05 AM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote: > Thanks, Alvaro! > > I think that would be a big improvement, but maybe adding in the word > requirements so that it sticks a bit more in the resulting work. How > about: > > - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, > authorization requirements and protection of any metadata. > > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) > wrote: >> Hi Kathleen! >> >> I agree. Do you want to suggest something, or would something line this be ok: >> >> - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, authorization and protection of any metadata. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Alvaro. >> >> >> On 9/28/17, 9:37 AM, "Kathleen Moriarty" wrote: >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> BLOCK: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I'd like to see an explicit mention of security in the charter text itself in >> terms of how the metadata will be protected or that it will be protected in >> some way. While the threats draft is helpful, the WG should be bound to >> consider security and provide it with this identifier/locator service. >> >> >> > > From nobody Fri Sep 29 08:50:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4DD1331DD; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bk7Ocv2Z10Wv; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 399B81331C1; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDAB62361; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:50:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 6ozV-sE5Sx+b; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3835F62360; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:50:29 -0400 (EDT) To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" , Eric Rescorla , The IESG Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" , "ideas-chairs@ietf.org" References: <150656918358.13632.8901471235240437918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8697F1BF-E19C-438B-9BC8-DE65D57F6118@cisco.com> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:50:28 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8697F1BF-E19C-438B-9BC8-DE65D57F6118@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Eric Rescorla's No Record on charter-ietf-ideas-00-01: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 15:50:38 -0000 Agreed. Bob On 09/28/2017 09:16 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > Hi! > > I’ll add some text before starting external review. > > Thanks! > > Alvaro. > > On 9/27/17, 11:26 PM, "Eric Rescorla" wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The privacy text in this charter seems pretty week. We're spending a lot of > effort right now to deal with the privacy impacts of our existing protocol that > maps text names to IP addresses (DNS), so we don't want to recapitulate that > one layer down. I think it needs to say something about how a major part of the > framework is defining the privacy requirements and how to meet them. I'm not > going to push "block" for external review, but I do expect to raise this issue > at chartering time. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas From nobody Fri Sep 29 09:13:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietf.org Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FE5133221; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:13:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: ideas@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:13:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:13:29 -0000 A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Routing Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by 2017-10-09. IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Proposed WG Chairs: Padma Pillay-Esnault Assigned Area Director: Alvaro Retana Routing Area Directors: Alia Atlas Alvaro Retana Deborah Brungard Mailing list: Address: ideas@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ideas/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/ideas/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation are increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However, additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to address new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locator protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic association of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dynamic multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines the expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use cases. The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and it will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the development of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of services as Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). Some of the areas that must be considered when developing the framework include: - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with the framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) - Description of identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping update (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associated identifiers. - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, update of information for identifiers..) - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement needs (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis, etc.) - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and privacy. Explicitly, the framework must define privacy requirements and how potential extensions/solutions should meet them. - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, authorization requirements and protection of any metadata. - Operational and deployment considerations The IDEAS WG will closely coordinate with the LISP and HIP WGs (and with others as needed) in order to keep them well-informed of the progress. Any extension to existing protocols that is identified while developing the framework document will be carried out in the responsible WG for that protocol; any extension work to be done in this WG will require re-chartering. WG deliverables include: (1) Generic Identity Services Framework (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: - Problem statement - Use cases - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (for GRIDS) - Applications of the architecture for use cases - Threat model document These documents will not be published as RFCs, but will be maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers. Milestones January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IESG November 2018 Recharter or Close From nobody Fri Sep 29 11:32:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B0713337F; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mjbuD14hRmDF; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E6511330B3; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B900BE49; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:31:57 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R3hNP43zzLAW; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:31:54 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.100] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 62FDABE47; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:31:54 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1506709914; bh=JTX1cwCe+J9hw1MasflHMohnEpZMmuy1YEOem39iHT8=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=CNyBEr6cvtIShIx1qUN6L/DgjNgCD7WWkftSKmzSN3OfZh10PTpKTrGWv3UpszdkT Jd7dJT3utrNPDiSftwAAble7znMz1FfSOiQioCZ7VlhjUmhgsAP9mdKUMqumR382/A N6hWS2LoAaJHYGG0foge+xsT1+x3/iseCWdaH8OM= To: ietf@ietf.org, IETF-Discussion Cc: ideas@ietf.org References: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <778d5504-ba4f-d418-7b20-356353bb0fb2@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:31:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RlRX6nSbKAsBVsnxfxLLScFnIHJG2q9jA" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas) X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:32:02 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --RlRX6nSbKAsBVsnxfxLLScFnIHJG2q9jA Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="s52dX4G12S9hABFtbe2h6coLrTtsH71FJ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: ietf@ietf.org, IETF-Discussion Cc: ideas@ietf.org Message-ID: <778d5504-ba4f-d418-7b20-356353bb0fb2@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas) References: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> --s52dX4G12S9hABFtbe2h6coLrTtsH71FJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As currently described, I oppose creation of this working group on the basis that it enables and seemingly encourages embedding identifiers for humans as addresses. Doing so would have significant privacy downsides, would enable new methods for censorship and discrimination, and could be very hard to mitigate should one wish to help protect people's privacy, as I think is current IETF policy. If the work precluded the use of any identifiers that strongly map to humans then I'd be ok with it being done as it'd then only be a waste of resources. But I don't know how that could be enforced so I think it'd be better to just not do this work at all. S. On 29/09/17 17:13, The IESG wrote: > A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Routing Area. The IESG has not m= ade > any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and i= s > provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to = the > IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by 2017-10-09. >=20 > IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas) > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= > Current status: Proposed WG >=20 > Chairs: > Padma Pillay-Esnault >=20 > Assigned Area Director: > Alvaro Retana >=20 > Routing Area Directors: > Alia Atlas > Alvaro Retana > Deborah Brungard >=20 > Mailing list: > Address: ideas@ietf.org > To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ideas/ >=20 > Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/ideas/ >=20 > Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ideas/ >=20 > Network solutions based on the concept of Identifier-Locator separation= are > increasingly considered to support mobility, overlay networking for > virtualization and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. > Identifier-locator separation protocols require infrastructure that all= ows > nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) fo= r > packet delivery. A common infrastructure and protocol could be used by > identifier/locator protocols as well as network virtualization. However= , > additional infrastructure and new protocol extensions are needed to add= ress > new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service = and > mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Identifier-locat= or > protocols are also useful for additional services involving dynamic > association of a name to a set of network addresses - these include dyn= amic > multicast, cloud service anycast and context-aware IoT queries. >=20 > The IDEAS WG is chartered to produce a framework document that defines = the > expected behavior of a mapping system across the multiple existing use = cases. > The framework will aim at a homogeneous behavior across use cases, and= it > will call out specific trade-offs that may be considered in the develop= ment > of solutions. We refer to the framework providing the set of services = as > Generic Identity Services (GRIDS). >=20 > Some of the areas that must be considered when developing the framework= > include: >=20 > - Description of interfaces for different protocols to interact with th= e > framework (e.g. id-loc split protocols, management protocols, etc) >=20 > - Description of identifier/locator mapping resolution and mapping upda= te > (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multi-homing, ...) >=20 > - Registration and lifecycle management of identities and their associa= ted > identifiers. >=20 > - Identity authentication and authorization (e.g. access to framework, = update > of information for identifiers..) >=20 > - Description of required basic network policies and policy enforcement= needs > (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding > traffic for particular endpoints on a per-identity basis, etc.) >=20 > - Analysis of the concepts of identity-identifier split and dynamic > identifier changes, including their implications on anonymity and priva= cy. > Explicitly, the framework must define privacy requirements and how pote= ntial > extensions/solutions should meet them. >=20 > - Security analysis of the complete system, including authentication, > authorization requirements and protection of any metadata. >=20 > - Operational and deployment considerations >=20 > The IDEAS WG will closely coordinate with the LISP and HIP WGs (and wit= h > others as needed) in order to keep them well-informed of the progress. = Any > extension to existing protocols that is identified while developing the= > framework document will be carried out in the responsible WG for that > protocol; any extension work to be done in this WG will require re-char= tering. >=20 > WG deliverables include: >=20 > (1) Generic Identity Services Framework >=20 > (2) Other WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >=20 > - Problem statement > - Use cases > - Requirements for identifier/locator mapping and resolution > - Requirements for identity authentication and authorization service (f= or > GRIDS) - Applications of the architecture for use cases - Threat model > document >=20 > These documents will not be published as RFCs, but will be maintained i= n a > draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the effo= rts of > the Working Group and help new comers. >=20 > Milestones >=20 > January 2018 Adopt WG draft for the Generic Identity Services framework= > July 2018 WGLC for the Generic Identity Services framework > September 2018 Send Generic Identity Services framework draft to the IE= SG > November 2018 Recharter or Close >=20 >=20 >=20 --s52dX4G12S9hABFtbe2h6coLrTtsH71FJ-- --RlRX6nSbKAsBVsnxfxLLScFnIHJG2q9jA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZzpGYAAoJEC88hzaAX42iMl0H/j1g/jf7wFqoDK44N0VSa34Z 2+Cb0LEdhz3WQQ+Ego4+b2mibhyOWdBsYTcCYi3rBP351or1Q+NL8aVdc41RmOzs iyld5nvQPoQ3HBfrPpu0MtLc802KxoWKh4H3Y9314+CUcxN+TNHTVaqTQ52QHHcP QNjotxBJNJ1S6NwMC+diD05GHFIFy1IXLLvdUf5HyUEG2X/0gCXLpDjUkJPl6xRW NQdhjBToZerolzpD1imX9QsIub17K+YdRV1IoovzPhRXiAWdde+fv6FZvrqksuwr pKmb5z2CT5Djyh/XKX6jc158c5ePzZHmuWF954IgijKo35EYPLaHGLy3yrkSX8g= =Gfvj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RlRX6nSbKAsBVsnxfxLLScFnIHJG2q9jA--