From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Fri May 2 16:45:17 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01916 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 16:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19BhAe-0005c3-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Fri, 02 May 2003 20:30:16 +0000 Received: from www.namesbeyond.com ([216.220.34.103] helo=neteka.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19BhAb-0005bh-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 20:30:13 +0000 Message-ID: <005501c310e9$a120eda0$0f01a8c0@neteka.inc> From: "Edmon Chung" To: "IETF idn working group" References: <20030429224703.GA29027@nicemice.net> <20030430050935.GF29027@nicemice.net> Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 16:28:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-22.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,MAILTO_TO_REMOVE,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It should be noted however that given an input: "this&that.com" The proper output for ToACE MUST be "this&that.com" and NOT "xn--this&that-.com" I specifically raise this issue because we have found that some IDNA/Punycode implementation is actually exhibiting this behaviour. Edmon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam M. Costello" To: "IETF idn working group" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character > Jarrod Hollingworth wrote: > > > Will IDN's allow encoding of domain names with *any* ASCII character? > > > > For example, let's say that I want to register the domain name > > "this&that.com" or "100^10.com". > > > > Will IDN allow this or does it only facilitate international > > languages? > > IDNA allows the addition of non-ASCII characters to domain names. For > ASCII characters, IDNA adds no new restrictions, but nor does it relax > the old restrictions. The ASCII characters & and ^ (and every other > ASCII character besides letters, digits, and hyphen) are not allowed in > the "preferred syntax", which is used for domain names that name hosts > and mail exchangers. > > It is not merely by fiat that IDNA keeps the old ASCII restrictions, > it follows from the technical details of the encoding. In IDNA, every > non-ASCII domain label has an ASCII form, where the non-ASCII characters > are encoded using ASCII letters and digits. But any ASCII characters > that occur in the non-ASCII label are represented literally, not > encoded. For example, if we want to put an acute accent over the "a" > in this&that.com, the ASCII form will be xn--this&tht-fza. As you can > see, IDNA does nothing to help you "sneak" the "&" into the name; it is > still there as "&", so you can't use such a name anywhere that "&" is > forbidden. > > One thing that is by fiat is the restriction on initial and final > hyphens. Technically, IDNA could have enabled one to sneak an initial > or final hyphen into a label where initial and final hyphens are > forbidden, but IDNA includes optional checks to prevent initial/final > hyphen from sneaking in where it's not allowed. > > AMC > > From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Sat May 3 17:14:03 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA09097 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 17:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19C4Ci-000Axx-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Sat, 03 May 2003 21:05:56 +0000 Received: from www.namesbeyond.com ([216.220.34.103] helo=neteka.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19C4CC-000AdU-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 03 May 2003 21:05:24 +0000 Message-ID: <017801c311b7$b577a3b0$0f01a8c0@neteka.inc> From: "Edmon Chung" To: "IETF idn working group" References: <20030429224703.GA29027@nicemice.net> <20030430050935.GF29027@nicemice.net> <005501c310e9$a120eda0$0f01a8c0@neteka.inc> Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 17:04:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-22.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,MAILTO_TO_REMOVE,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry everyone, In my previous message I have mis-used the term ToACE, it should be ToASCII (there is no ToACE) and I should have said that ToASCII SHOULD result ... instead of MUST... Anyway, just to reiterate my point. Given an input "this&that.com" the output for ToASCII MUST NOT be "xn--this&that-.com" And we have come across implementations that mis-convert it to "xn--this&that-.com" Also, while ToASCII should fail in this case, it is important for an implementation not to further terminate the process. More specifically, when ToASCII fails, the implementation to leave further interpretation up to the original application and should not attempt to alter or terminate its path. Edmon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edmon Chung" To: "IETF idn working group" Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character > It should be noted however that given an input: "this&that.com" > The proper output for ToACE MUST be "this&that.com" and NOT > "xn--this&that-.com" > I specifically raise this issue because we have found that some > IDNA/Punycode implementation is actually exhibiting this behaviour. > Edmon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam M. Costello" > To: "IETF idn working group" > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:09 AM > Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character > > > > Jarrod Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > Will IDN's allow encoding of domain names with *any* ASCII character? > > > > > > For example, let's say that I want to register the domain name > > > "this&that.com" or "100^10.com". > > > > > > Will IDN allow this or does it only facilitate international > > > languages? > > > > IDNA allows the addition of non-ASCII characters to domain names. For > > ASCII characters, IDNA adds no new restrictions, but nor does it relax > > the old restrictions. The ASCII characters & and ^ (and every other > > ASCII character besides letters, digits, and hyphen) are not allowed in > > the "preferred syntax", which is used for domain names that name hosts > > and mail exchangers. > > > > It is not merely by fiat that IDNA keeps the old ASCII restrictions, > > it follows from the technical details of the encoding. In IDNA, every > > non-ASCII domain label has an ASCII form, where the non-ASCII characters > > are encoded using ASCII letters and digits. But any ASCII characters > > that occur in the non-ASCII label are represented literally, not > > encoded. For example, if we want to put an acute accent over the "a" > > in this&that.com, the ASCII form will be xn--this&tht-fza. As you can > > see, IDNA does nothing to help you "sneak" the "&" into the name; it is > > still there as "&", so you can't use such a name anywhere that "&" is > > forbidden. > > > > One thing that is by fiat is the restriction on initial and final > > hyphens. Technically, IDNA could have enabled one to sneak an initial > > or final hyphen into a label where initial and final hyphens are > > forbidden, but IDNA includes optional checks to prevent initial/final > > hyphen from sneaking in where it's not allowed. > > > > AMC > > > > > > > From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Sat May 3 19:04:53 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA11421 for ; Sat, 3 May 2003 19:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19C5rw-000Lit-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Sat, 03 May 2003 22:52:36 +0000 Received: from 178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net ([217.13.230.178] helo=yxa.extundo.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19C5rr-000Lif-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 03 May 2003 22:52:31 +0000 Received: from latte.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h43MqMbT000703; Sun, 4 May 2003 00:52:22 +0200 To: "Edmon Chung" Cc: "IETF idn working group" Subject: [idn] Re: IDN's with any ASCII character References: <20030429224703.GA29027@nicemice.net> <20030430050935.GF29027@nicemice.net> <005501c310e9$a120eda0$0f01a8c0@neteka.inc> <017801c311b7$b577a3b0$0f01a8c0@neteka.inc> From: Simon Josefsson X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030503:edmon@neteka.com:4d0da8bc02ba8a76 X-Hashcash: 0:030503:edmon@neteka.com:4d0da8bc02ba8a76 X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030503:idn@ops.ietf.org:2d11581b3f62cf72 X-Hashcash: 0:030503:idn@ops.ietf.org:2d11581b3f62cf72 Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 00:52:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <017801c311b7$b577a3b0$0f01a8c0@neteka.inc> (Edmon Chung's message of "Sat, 3 May 2003 17:04:19 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-38.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk "Edmon Chung" writes: > Given an input "this&that.com" the output for ToASCII MUST NOT be > "xn--this&that-.com" > > And we have come across implementations that mis-convert it to > "xn--this&that-.com" As far as I can tell, this is simply a bug in the implementation, not in the specification. > Also, while ToASCII should fail in this case, It depends. If the UseSTD3ASCIIRules flag is set, it should fail. Otherwise, it shouldn't. From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue May 13 11:19:56 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16369 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 11:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19FbOO-000BSa-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:08:36 +0000 Received: from maya20.nic.fr ([192.134.4.152]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19FbOM-000BSK-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:08:34 +0000 Received: from vespucci.nic.fr (postfix@vespucci.nic.fr [192.134.4.68]) by maya20.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h4DF6i6T1365761 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 17:06:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by vespucci.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1055) id 8603110F7E; Tue, 13 May 2003 17:08:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:08:32 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: [idn] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) Message-ID: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.4.18-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-12.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Since http://www.i-d-n.net/ is terribly outdated, I'm looking for help here. We plan to register IDNs "soon" in ".fr". Our legacy software is in Perl and Java. I need IDN "free as in free speech, not free as in free beer" implementations for both. For Perl, I could write a XS to the excellent GNU libidn or to MDNkit but I hope someone else did it before the lazy guy I am. The implementation in is quite outdated and I wonder if I can reasonably use it? For Java, one (not me) could use the JNI to call GNU libidn but I would prefer a native Java solution, easing the deployment to various platforms without recompilation. Any advice? ("Reprogram everything in Python" is a good advice but unrealistic, I'm afraid.) From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue May 13 12:05:04 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18267 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 12:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Fc9B-000Hq7-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:56:57 +0000 Received: from w1309.hostcentric.net ([66.40.78.254]) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Fc99-000Hpv-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 15:56:55 +0000 Received: (qmail 14608 invoked by alias); 13 May 2003 15:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DAVIS1) (12.234.231.178) by 0 with SMTP; 13 May 2003 15:56:47 -0000 Message-ID: <007501c31968$2efef5a0$7900a8c0@DAVIS1> From: "Mark Davis" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , References: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> Subject: Re: [idn] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:56:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-15.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_10,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the ICU 2.6 release, we are including an IDNA implementation for C, if you can call into that. ICU is open source, under the X Licence: http://oss.software.ibm.com/icu/ Mark ________ mark.davis@jtcsv.com IBM, MS 50-2/B11, 5600 Cottle Rd, SJ CA 95193 (408) 256-3148 fax: (408) 256-0799 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 08:08 Subject: [idn] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) > Hello, > > Since http://www.i-d-n.net/ is terribly outdated, I'm looking for help > here. > > We plan to register IDNs "soon" in ".fr". Our legacy software is in > Perl and Java. I need IDN "free as in free speech, not free as in free > beer" implementations for both. > > For Perl, I could write a XS to the excellent GNU libidn or to MDNkit > but I hope someone else did it before the lazy guy I am. The > implementation in is quite outdated > and I wonder if I can reasonably use it? > > For Java, one (not me) could use the JNI to call GNU libidn but I > would prefer a native Java solution, easing the deployment to various > platforms without recompilation. > > Any advice? ("Reprogram everything in Python" is a good advice but > unrealistic, I'm afraid.) > > From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue May 13 12:10:33 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18591 for ; Tue, 13 May 2003 12:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19FcGU-000Ihs-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 May 2003 16:04:30 +0000 Received: from mail.proper.com ([208.184.76.45] helo=above.proper.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19FcGS-000Ihe-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 May 2003 16:04:28 +0000 Received: from [63.202.92.152] (adsl-63-202-92-152.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.92.152]) by above.proper.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4DG4Oi3029457; Tue, 13 May 2003 09:04:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: phoffman@mail.imc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> References: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:04:21 -0700 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer , idn@ops.ietf.org From: Paul Hoffman / IMC Subject: Re: [idn] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-35.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 5:08 PM +0200 5/13/03, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >We plan to register IDNs "soon" in ".fr". Our legacy software is in >Perl and Java. I need IDN "free as in free speech, not free as in free >beer" implementations for both. > >For Perl, I could write a XS to the excellent GNU libidn or to MDNkit >but I hope someone else did it before the lazy guy I am. The >implementation in is quite outdated >and I wonder if I can reasonably use it? No, and I thought I had removed it a while ago. I have now. Please see . All the IMC-created Perl code there is free as in speech and beer. It relies on charlint.pl, the W3C's Perl-based normalizer that Martin Dürst created; that has a separate license. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Wed May 14 07:43:16 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13277 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 07:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19FuY1-000Hkm-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:35:49 +0000 Received: from maya20.nic.fr ([192.134.4.152]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19FuXz-000HkY-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:35:47 +0000 Received: from vespucci.nic.fr (postfix@vespucci.nic.fr [192.134.4.68]) by maya20.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h4EBXvu91195814 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:33:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by vespucci.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1055) id 18A0F10F7E; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:35:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:35:46 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: [idn] [SUMMARY] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) Message-ID: <20030514113546.GA19959@nic.fr> References: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.4.18-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:08:32PM +0200, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > We plan to register IDNs "soon" in ".fr". Our legacy software is in > Perl and Java. I need IDN "free as in free speech, not free as in free > beer" implementations for both. Solutions I've found: Java) Verisign GRS distributes a SDK (Software Development Kit) to its registrars. It includes a full IDN (RFC 3490 and friends) implementation in Java. It seems well written and documented. There is no public site for the distribution, if you are not a Verisign registrar, you have to ask Verisign for a copy. The licence is BSD (without the ad clause). ICU for Java will include IDN in a future version. Perl) Paul Hoffman's test tool is written in Perl, and free. It is not a ready-to-use, shrinkwrapped library (for instance, there are hardcoded paths in the code). Requires Perl >= 5.8. For Perl, we'll try to develop an XS interface, allowing to use GNU libidn, written in C. From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Wed May 14 11:05:00 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20801 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Fxev-000MpB-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:55:09 +0000 Received: from sina.sharif.edu ([81.31.160.35]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Fxes-000Mo8-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:55:07 +0000 Received: from bamdad.org (IDENT:root@bamdad.org [81.31.160.190]) by sina.sharif.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EEshM11069; Wed, 14 May 2003 19:24:44 +0430 Received: from localhost (roozbeh@localhost) by bamdad.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4EEuBB13977; Wed, 14 May 2003 19:26:14 +0430 X-Authentication-Warning: gilas.bamdad.org: roozbeh owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:26:11 +0430 (IRST) From: Roozbeh Pournader X-X-Sender: roozbeh@gilas.bamdad.org To: John C Klensin cc: Doug Ewell , IETF idn working group , Jarrod Hollingworth Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character In-Reply-To: <84052330.1051690838@p3.JCK.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_10,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, John C Klensin wrote: > While, as far as I know, "high ASCII" has never been a standard term, > "ASCII-8" and "8-Bit ASCII" definitely have been. And both terms are > still used informally, both inside and outside the US, to refer to the > Standardized form of Latin-1, i.e., ISO 8859-1. May be true, but the terms are dangerous, as in different cults they mean different things. For example, for older PC & MS-DOS hackers the 8-bit ASCII means CP437. roozbeh From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Wed May 14 13:43:39 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28533 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19G0Av-000MFK-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:36:21 +0000 Received: from ns.jck.com ([209.187.148.211] helo=bs.jck.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19G0Ar-000MEs-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:36:17 +0000 Received: from [209.187.148.215] (helo=p3.JCK.COM) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19G0Af-000D7R-00; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:36:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:36:02 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Roozbeh Pournader cc: Doug Ewell , IETF idn working group , Jarrod Hollingworth Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character Message-ID: <77153040.1052919362@p3.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.0.3 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-10.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,QUOTE_TWICE_1 autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Wednesday, 14 May, 2003 19:26 +0430 Roozbeh Pournader wrote: > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, John C Klensin wrote: > >> While, as far as I know, "high ASCII" has never been a >> standard term, "ASCII-8" and "8-Bit ASCII" definitely have >> been. And both terms are still used informally, both inside >> and outside the US, to refer to the Standardized form of >> Latin-1, i.e., ISO 8859-1. > > May be true, but the terms are dangerous, as in different > cults they mean different things. For example, for older PC & > MS-DOS hackers the 8-bit ASCII means CP437. The _only_ thing I was trying to clarify was the apparent assertion in Doug's note that ASCII-8 wasn't well defined in some standard. It was and is. I wouldn't suggest using the term either. john > > roozbeh > From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Wed May 14 14:15:36 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29463 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 14:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19G0fw-0001fP-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 May 2003 18:08:24 +0000 Received: from arwen.cs.berkeley.edu ([128.32.132.165] helo=nicemice.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19G0fu-0001et-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 18:08:22 +0000 Received: from amc by nicemice.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19G0fs-0005km-00 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 11:08:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:08:20 +0000 From: "Adam M. Costello" To: idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [idn] [SUMMARY] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) Message-ID: <20030514180820.GA21621@nicemice.net> Reply-To: IETF idn working group References: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> <20030514113546.GA19959@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030514113546.GA19959@nic.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-38.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > Verisign GRS distributes a SDK (Software Development Kit) to > its registrars. It includes a full IDN (RFC 3490 and friends) > implementation in Java. It seems well written and documented. There > is no public site for the distribution, if you are not a Verisign > registrar, you have to ask Verisign for a copy. The licence is BSD > (without the ad clause). If the license is BSD, that means anyone who has a copy may redistribute it from a public site. That would probably help bugs get discovered sooner. AMC From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Wed May 14 14:31:33 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28532 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 13:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19G0Ff-000N5U-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:41:15 +0000 Received: from above.proper.com ([208.184.76.39]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19G0FI-000N09-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 May 2003 17:40:52 +0000 Received: from [63.202.92.152] (adsl-63-202-92-152.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.92.152]) (authenticated bits=0) by above.proper.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4EHeYAG025782; Wed, 14 May 2003 10:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: phoffman@mail.imc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030514113546.GA19959@nic.fr> References: <20030513150832.GA10869@nic.fr> <20030514113546.GA19959@nic.fr> X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:40:33 -0700 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer , idn@ops.ietf.org From: Paul Hoffman / IMC Subject: Re: [idn] [SUMMARY] Searching for IDN free software implementations (Perl and Java) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-35.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 1:35 PM +0200 5/14/03, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >Perl) Paul Hoffman's test tool is written in Perl, and free. It is not >a ready-to-use, shrinkwrapped library (for instance, there are >hardcoded paths in the code). Requires Perl >= >5.8. Right: it's just a test tool. Anyone familiar with Perl will see lots of places where it is quite inefficient. >For Perl, we'll try to develop an XS interface, allowing to use GNU >libidn, written in C. That would be a great service to the IDN community! If you do it, I'm happy to put it up on the IMC site for people to test with. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Thu May 15 02:39:54 2003 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28684 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19GCEl-000IgW-00 for idn-data@psg.com; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:29:07 +0000 Received: from mta3-0.mail.adelphia.net ([64.8.50.181] helo=mta3.adelphia.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19GCEi-000IgK-00 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 06:29:04 +0000 Received: from DouglasEwell.anhmca.adelphia.net ([68.66.67.126]) by mta5.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with SMTP id <20030515061412.UMQB10474.mta5.adelphia.net@DouglasEwell.anhmca.adelphia.net>; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:14:12 -0400 Message-ID: <008001c31aa9$34eabca0$7e434244@anhmca.adelphia.net> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "John C Klensin" , "Roozbeh Pournader" Cc: "IETF idn working group" , "Jarrod Hollingworth" References: <77153040.1052919362@p3.JCK.COM> Subject: Re: [idn] IDN's with any ASCII character Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:14:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-15.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_10,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT autolearn=ham version=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John C Klensin wrote: > The _only_ thing I was trying to clarify was the apparent > assertion in Doug's note that ASCII-8 wasn't well defined in > some standard. It was and is. I wouldn't suggest using the > term either. BTW, to the extent anyone cares, there actually was an encoding called "ASCII-8" or "USASCII-8" that emerged shortly after the introduction of ASCII in 1963. It was not an attempt to extend ASCII to 256 characters, though, but rather an attempt to represent ASCII in 8-bit streams using a strange parity-bit-inspired scheme: ASCII characters 0x00-0x1F were represented by bytes 0x00-0x1F ASCII characters 0x20-0x3F were represented by bytes 0x40-0x5F ASCII characters 0x40-0x5F were represented by bytes 0xA0-0xBF ASCII characters 0x60-0x7F were represented by bytes 0xE0-0xFF It was based on ASCII-1963, which differs in a few character positions from the 1967 version we know. Some other early systems solved the then-important "parity problem" by making the high bit an odd or even parity bit. Eventually, the "8-bit ASCII byte" came to be defined as having its high bit reset to 0. -Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/