From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 21 16:02:36 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08358 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AjPCh-000Lkb-Dw for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:43:59 +0000 Received: from [217.115.140.127] (helo=ns10913a.cobalthosting.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AjPCT-000LjX-Kk for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:43:45 +0000 Received: from Notebook (pD9E4F68A.dip.t-dialin.net [217.228.246.138]) by ns10913a.cobalthosting.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i0LKhd110462 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:43:40 +0100 Message-ID: <02cf01c3e05f$44970a10$6f48fea9@Notebook> From: "Georg Ochsner" To: Subject: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:43:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_10,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again, does anybody know, when Microsoft will implement the new IDN standards in IE (service pack or something)? And when is Google planning to index IDNs "correctly" in native characters? Thanks and good luck, Georg From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 22 02:37:01 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12258 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AjZG6-000Loa-El for idn-data@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:28:10 +0000 Received: from [195.187.245.33] (helo=boromix.nask.net.pl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AjZFq-000LnV-T5 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:27:55 +0000 Received: from boromir.nask.waw.pl (boromir [195.187.245.136]) by boromix.nask.net.pl with ESMTP id i0M7Rmlb002464; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:27:49 +0100 Received: from tree.nask.waw.pl (tree.nask.waw.pl [195.187.245.21]) by boromir.nask.waw.pl with ESMTP id i0M7RmeX015057; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:27:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from anbar (anbar.nask.waw.pl [193.59.204.115]) by tree.nask.waw.pl (8.12.8/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i0M7RlRY089043; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:27:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ANDRZEJB@NASK.PL) Reply-To: From: "Andrzej Bartosiewicz" To: "'Georg Ochsner'" , Subject: RE: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:27:41 +0100 Organization: NASK Message-ID: <001001c3e0b9$38a0f4f0$73cc3bc1@nask.waw.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <02cf01c3e05f$44970a10$6f48fea9@Notebook> VirusProtection: checked - Found to be clean X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_56 autolearn=ham version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm surprised that Google does not support IDNs. In Poland, the NetSprint (netsprint.pl) search engine supports the IDNs (NetSprint is very popular in Poland; NetSprint is the official search engine for the biggest "internet-portals" like WP.pl or poland.pl) By the end of 2003, all IDN-web sites (.pl only) has been indexed. More (in Polish only)... http://gospodarka.gazeta.pl/gospodarka/1,36051,1828201.html http://www.egospodarka.pl/article/articleview/3793/1/12/ http://www.webinside.pl/news/163 http://www.biznesnet.pl/a/6757/ http://www.searchengines.pl/cms/cms/index.php?action=read&news_id=110 http://www.e-biznes.pl/inf/107155945660120.shtml Andrzej Bartosiewicz From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 22 03:15:17 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA12958 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 03:15:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AjZuQ-0000iD-KE for idn-data@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:09:50 +0000 Received: from [192.134.4.151] (helo=maya40.nic.fr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AjZuE-0000hi-5D for idn@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:09:38 +0000 Received: from vespucci.nic.fr (postfix@vespucci.nic.fr [192.134.4.68]) by maya40.nic.fr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id i0M89ahj652940; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:09:36 +0100 (CET) Received: by vespucci.nic.fr (Postfix, from userid 1055) id 97E8CFCB1; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:09:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:09:35 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Georg Ochsner Cc: idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Message-ID: <20040122080935.GA17859@nic.fr> References: <02cf01c3e05f$44970a10$6f48fea9@Notebook> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <02cf01c3e05f$44970a10$6f48fea9@Notebook> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable X-Kernel: Linux 2.4.24-1-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 09:43:44PM +0100, Georg Ochsner wrote a message of 10 lines which said: > does anybody know, when Microsoft will implement the new IDN standards in IE > (service pack or something)? The technical director of Microsoft France, Bernard Ourghanlian, queried by AFNIC, replied that the are no immediate plans to support IDN, Microsoft prefers to wait for "full" IRI. A more detailed (and in english) reply from Microsoft is there: http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/presentations/unicode23/a6.pdf Anyway, Real Men only use free software :-) From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 22 20:44:46 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA24181 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:44:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AjqB2-000Bou-9i for idn-data@psg.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:32:04 +0000 Received: from [131.107.3.124] (helo=mail2.microsoft.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AjqAo-000Bnk-V1 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:31:50 +0000 Received: from INET-VRS-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.8.110]) by mail2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1041); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:31:50 -0800 Received: from 157.54.6.197 by INET-VRS-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:31:49 -0800 Received: from red-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.9.102]) by INET-HUB-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1069); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:31:56 -0800 Received: from win-imc-02.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.0.84]) by red-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1069); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:32:00 -0800 Received: from WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.81]) by win-imc-02.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1069); Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:32:27 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7150.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:31:42 -0800 Message-ID: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Thread-Topic: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Thread-Index: AcPgv5ePqZUZo9/MT8eIAkQdolq5jwAi855Q From: "Michel Suignard" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , "Georg Ochsner" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2004 01:32:27.0973 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2E1FF50:01C3E150] X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Concerning IRI, it is not a matter of 'preference'. If you present something like a URI containing a host name presented in non ASCII repertoire, you are in fact using an illegal URI per RFC2396 definition. At minimum you need to have a clear definition on how such 'extended' URI (in other words IRI) are mapped to legal URI. This is a big part of the IRI draft spec currently worked on. The draft is at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-duerst-iri-05.txt. The same goes for http, and any other URI schemes presented in browser user interface. To come back to IE, it doesn't really process DNS directly, it only sees them as part of URI, thus the concern above. The fact that I am also associated with the development of the IRI spec (although Martin Duerst from W3C does most of the work) should give you a hint that we are not just 'waiting' for IRI. I can't really comment on future product planning (and this isn't really the forum for that anyway), but obviously we are looking seriously at IDN support. For the short term, there are many plug-ins available that could offer partial solution. I won't comment much on your last sentence, at least you put an emoticon, so not be taken too seriously, just a tad irritating for the few of us still trying to make a living writing/designing software. Michel PS. The reason I am answering this has to due that I wrote the presentation linked below. -----Original Message----- From: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-idn@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 09:43:44PM +0100, Georg Ochsner wrote a message of 10 lines which said: > does anybody know, when Microsoft will implement the new IDN standards > in IE (service pack or something)? The technical director of Microsoft France, Bernard Ourghanlian, queried by AFNIC, replied that the are no immediate plans to support IDN, Microsoft prefers to wait for "full" IRI. A more detailed (and in english) reply from Microsoft is there: http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/presentations/unicode23/a6. pdf Anyway, Real Men only use free software :-) From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 23 09:18:53 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01530 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:18:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1Ak1zx-0009fP-IY for idn-data@psg.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:09:25 +0000 Received: from [195.187.245.33] (helo=boromix.nask.net.pl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1Ak1zk-0009er-BZ for idn@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:09:12 +0000 Received: from boromir.nask.waw.pl (boromir [195.187.245.136]) by boromix.nask.net.pl with ESMTP id i0NE92lb030591; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:09:02 +0100 Received: from localhost by boromir.nask.waw.pl with ESMTP id i0NE92hM013693; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:09:02 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:09:01 +0100 (MET) From: Andrzej Bartosiewicz X-X-Sender: andrzejb@boromir To: Georg Ochsner cc: idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google In-Reply-To: <16f801c3e18b$8653d2d0$6f48fea9@Notebook> Message-ID: References: <001001c3e0b9$38a0f4f0$73cc3bc1@nask.waw.pl> <16f801c3e18b$8653d2d0$6f48fea9@Notebook> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII VirusProtection: checked - Found to be clean X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk You can try one of registered IDNs. The full list if IDNs: www.bartosiewicz.pl/IDNdomainsPL.txt or contact netsprint.pl. Andrzej. On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Georg Ochsner wrote: > Hello Andrzej, > > can you give me an example to look for at netsprint.pl in order to see some > IDNs in the result list? > > Ciao, > Georg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrzej Bartosiewicz" > To: "'Georg Ochsner'" ; > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:27 AM > Subject: RE: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google > > > > I'm surprised that Google does not support IDNs. In Poland, the > > NetSprint (netsprint.pl) search engine supports the IDNs (NetSprint is > > very popular in Poland; NetSprint is the official search engine for the > > biggest "internet-portals" like WP.pl or poland.pl) > > > > By the end of 2003, all IDN-web sites (.pl only) has been indexed. > > > > More (in Polish only)... > > http://gospodarka.gazeta.pl/gospodarka/1,36051,1828201.html > > http://www.egospodarka.pl/article/articleview/3793/1/12/ > > http://www.webinside.pl/news/163 > > http://www.biznesnet.pl/a/6757/ > > http://www.searchengines.pl/cms/cms/index.php?action=read&news_id=110 > > http://www.e-biznes.pl/inf/107155945660120.shtml > > > > Andrzej Bartosiewicz > > > > > From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 25 03:16:44 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23876 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 03:16:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AkfIA-000AKE-HQ for idn-data@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 08:06:50 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.84] (helo=mailout09.sul.t-online.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AkfHw-000AJA-OH for idn@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 08:06:36 +0000 Received: from fwd00.aul.t-online.de by mailout09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1AkfHg-0008FV-00; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 09:06:20 +0100 Received: from v.loewis.de (GnWVnOZb8euU17dGTGfvIbd5xZiUNTEjq9HZQmULNN-O0HL4aSeLoG@[217.232.39.175]) by fmrl00.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 1AkfHX-1gYQwS0; Sun, 25 Jan 2004 09:06:11 +0100 Message-ID: <401378F3.8070406@v.loewis.de> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 09:06:11 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031009 X-Accept-Language: de, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michel Suignard CC: Stephane Bortzmeyer , Georg Ochsner , idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google References: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: GnWVnOZb8euU17dGTGfvIbd5xZiUNTEjq9HZQmULNN-O0HL4aSeLoG@t-dialin.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michel Suignard wrote: > Concerning IRI, it is not a matter of 'preference'. If you present > something like a URI containing a host name presented in non ASCII > repertoire, you are in fact using an illegal URI per RFC2396 definition. While this is true, it only imposes constraints on the HTML authors - not on the Web browser. In particular, B.2.1 of HTML 4.01 explains that Web browsers should expect authors to violate the constraint, and gives a suggestion on how to deal with this violation. This suggestion clearly predates IDNA, so dealing with this violation using IDNA for the host name part is more sensible. It is (unfortunately) quite common that HTML authors do not follow the relevent HTML recommmendations. Some authors even believe that unlimited extensibility is one of the guiding principles of HTML. In fact, MSIE 6 does process URLs with non-ASCII characters - even though not in the suggested way (but instead, apparently by sending UTF-8 directly to the wire). Changing it to perform IDNA on the host part (and leaving everything else as-is) would not make it less standards-conforming, and give users added value. Regards, Martin From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 27 03:32:28 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24759 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:32:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AlOSn-000P5c-DC for idn-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:20:49 +0000 Received: from [211.196.150.53] (helo=postel5.postel.co.kr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AlOSa-000P3t-5N for idn@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:20:36 +0000 Received: from MASTER ([220.86.20.180]) by postel5.postel.co.kr (8.13.0.PreAlpha4/8.13.0.PreAlpha4) with SMTP id i0R8KBtk021117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:20:15 +0900 Message-ID: <02bb01c3e4ae$65090c00$0102fea9@MASTER> From: "Soobok Lee" To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_v._L=F6wis?=" , "Michel Suignard" Cc: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , "Georg Ochsner" , References: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <401378F3.8070406@v.loewis.de> Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:20:07 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, LINK_TO_NO_SCHEME,MIME_BASE64_LATIN,MIME_BASE64_TEXT,RCVD_IN_RFCI, RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIk1hcnRpbiB2LiBM9ndpcyIg PG1hcnRpbkB2LmxvZXdpcy5kZT4NCiA+IEluIGZhY3QsIE1TSUUgNiBkb2VzIHByb2Nlc3MgVVJM cyB3aXRoIG5vbi1BU0NJSSBjaGFyYWN0ZXJzIC0gZXZlbg0KPiB0aG91Z2ggbm90IGluIHRoZSBz dWdnZXN0ZWQgd2F5IChidXQgaW5zdGVhZCwgYXBwYXJlbnRseSBieSBzZW5kaW5nDQo+IFVURi04 IGRpcmVjdGx5IHRvIHRoZSB3aXJlKS4gQ2hhbmdpbmcgaXQgdG8gcGVyZm9ybSBJRE5BIG9uIHRo ZQ0KPiBob3N0IHBhcnQgKGFuZCBsZWF2aW5nIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgZWxzZSBhcy1pcykgd291bGQg bm90IG1ha2UgaXQgbGVzcw0KPiBzdGFuZGFyZHMtY29uZm9ybWluZywgYW5kIGdpdmUgdXNlcnMg YWRkZWQgdmFsdWUuDQogDQpUaGF0IG1ha2VzIHNlbnNlIGFuZCB3b3JrcyBpbiBtYW55IGNhc2Vz LGFzIGNhYiBiZSBzZWVuIGluIHNvbWUgcGx1Z2luIGFwcHJvYWNoZXMuDQogDQpCdXQsIGluIHNv bWUgY2FzZXMgLCBpdCBpcyBvYnZpb3VzIHRoYXQgaXQgd2lsbCBjYXVzZSBzZWN1cml0eS9hcmNo aXRlY3R1cmFsIHByb2JsZW1zLi4NCg0KPGEgaHJlZj13d3cueG4tLWJsYWhibGFoLmNvbT4gIGlz IHVnbHkgYW5kIHdvbid0IGJlIGFjY2VwdGFibGUgdG8gTVMNCldpbmRvd3MgZm9sa3MuIFRoYXQg aXMgd2h5IE1TIHdhaXRzIGZvciAgZnVsbCBJUkkgc3BlYyBmb3IgSFRNTCwgaSBndWVzcy4NCiAN ClRoaW5raW5nIHRoYXQgQ29udGVudC9KYXZhc2NyaXB0L0phdmEvQ29va2llIHNlY3VyaXR5IG1v ZGVscyBoZWF2aWx5IGRlcGVuZHMgb24gdGV4dCANCnJlcHJlc2VuYXRhdGlvbnMgb2YgaG9zdG5h bWUgYW5kIGZpbGUgcGF0aCBwYXJ0cyBvZiBVUkwodGhlbiBJUkkpLCBNUydzIGN1cnJlbnQgY29u c2VydmF0aXZlIA0KcG9zdGl0aW9ucyBtYXkgYmUganVzdGlmaWVkIGZvciBzZWN1cml0eSByZWFz b25zLg0KDQpTdGlsbCBpIGRvbid0IGhhdmUgZnVsbCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCBob3cgTW96 aWxsYSAgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIG9mIElETkEgIGhhZCBhZGRyZXNzZWQgdGhpcw0Kc2VjdXJp dHkgaXNzdWVzIGNsZWFybHkuDQoNClNvb2JvayBMZWU= From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 27 10:26:08 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09542 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AlUu1-0001EW-Rt for idn-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:13:21 +0000 Received: from [211.196.150.53] (helo=postel5.postel.co.kr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AlUto-0001CT-5J for idn@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:13:08 +0000 Received: from MASTER ([220.86.20.180]) by postel5.postel.co.kr (8.13.0.PreAlpha4/8.13.0.PreAlpha4) with SMTP id i0RFCotk013343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:12:52 +0900 Message-ID: <000d01c3e4e8$071f4020$0102fea9@MASTER> From: "Soobok Lee" To: "Michel Suignard" , "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , "Georg Ochsner" Cc: References: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:12:46 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MIME_BASE64_LATIN, MIME_BASE64_TEXT,RCVD_IN_RFCI,RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIk1pY2hlbCBTdWlnbmFyZCIg PG1pY2hlbHN1QHdpbmRvd3MubWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbT4NClRvOiAiU3RlcGhhbmUgQm9ydHptZXll ciIgPGJvcnR6bWV5ZXJAbmljLmZyPjsgIkdlb3JnIE9jaHNuZXIiIDxnZW9yZ0BvY2hzbmVyLmRl Pg0KQ2M6IDxpZG5Ab3BzLmlldGYub3JnPg0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDIzLCAyMDA0 IDEwOjMxIEFNDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogW2lkbl0gSUROcyBpbiBJRSBhbmQgR29vZ2xlDQoNCg0K PiBDb25jZXJuaW5nIElSSSwgaXQgaXMgbm90IGEgbWF0dGVyIG9mICdwcmVmZXJlbmNlJy4gSWYg eW91IHByZXNlbnQNCj4gc29tZXRoaW5nIGxpa2UgYSBVUkkgY29udGFpbmluZyBhIGhvc3QgbmFt ZSBwcmVzZW50ZWQgaW4gbm9uIEFTQ0lJDQo+IHJlcGVydG9pcmUsIHlvdSBhcmUgaW4gZmFjdCB1 c2luZyBhbiBpbGxlZ2FsIFVSSSBwZXIgUkZDMjM5NiBkZWZpbml0aW9uLg0KPiBBdCBtaW5pbXVt IHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBjbGVhciBkZWZpbml0aW9uIG9uIGhvdyBzdWNoICdleHRlbmRl ZCcNCj4gVVJJIChpbiBvdGhlciB3b3JkcyBJUkkpIGFyZSBtYXBwZWQgdG8gbGVnYWwgVVJJLiBU aGlzIGlzIGEgYmlnIHBhcnQgb2YNCj4gdGhlIElSSSBkcmFmdCBzcGVjIGN1cnJlbnRseSB3b3Jr ZWQgb24uIFRoZSBkcmFmdCBpcyBhdA0KPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRy YWZ0cy9kcmFmdC1kdWVyc3QtaXJpLTA1LnR4dC4gVGhlIHNhbWUNCj4gZ29lcyBmb3IgaHR0cCwg YW5kIGFueSBvdGhlciBVUkkgc2NoZW1lcyBwcmVzZW50ZWQgaW4gYnJvd3NlciB1c2VyDQo+IGlu dGVyZmFjZS4NCiANCkkga25vdyB0aGUgaW1wb3J0YW5jZSBvZiBJUkkgZWZmb3J0LiANCg0KQlRX LCAgTVNJRS9Nb3ppbGxhIHNlZW0gdG8gc3VwcG9ydCAgIElSSSBjb25jZXB0IGluICAiZmlsZToi IHByb3RvY29sICBhbHJlYWR5Lg0KZmlsZTogcHJvdG9jb2wgVVJMIGhhZCBiZWVuIHN1cHBvcnRp bmcgIE5FVEJJT1MgUEMgTmFtZSBhbmQgRmlsZS9EaXJlY3RvcnkgUGF0aG5hbWUNCmluICoqKkxP Q0FMIENIQVJTRVQgRU5DT0RJTkcqKiosIG5vdCBpbiBVVEYtOCBlbmNvZGluZyAgZnJvbSB2ZXJ5 IGxvbmcgdGltZSBhZ28uDQpUaGF0IHdvcmtzIGluICBXaW5kb3dzIE9TIGFuZCBldmVuIGluIExJ TlVYLg0KDQpNb3Jlb3ZlciwgTW9zdCBhc2lhbiBIVE1MIGhvbWVwYWdlcyBhcmUgcHVibGlzaGVk IGluIGxvY2FsIGNoYXJzZXQgZW5jb2RpbmcNCmxpa2UgZXVjLWtyLCBiaWc1IGFuZCBnYjIzMTIg ZXRjLiBVVEYtOC1lbmNvZGVkIEhUTUwgcGFnZXMgYXJlIGV4dHJlbWVseSAqUkFSRSoNCmluIEFT SUEuDQoNCk5lZWQgZm9yIGJhY2t3YXJkIGNvbXBhdGliaWxpdHkgdG8gYWxyZWFkeSBkZXBsb3ll ZCBJUkktY29uY2VwdCBhbmQgDQpVbmljb2RlPC0+TG9jYWwgY2hhcnNldCBjb252ZXJzaW9uIGxh eWVyIG1heSBsYXkgYW5vdGhlciAgY29tcGxleGl0eSB0byBJUkkgZWZmb3J0Lg0KIA0KSnVzdCBj b21wYXJpbmcgdHdvIElSSXMgd29uJ3QgYmUgYSB0cml2aWFsIHRhc2ssIGlmIHRoZXkgY2FuIGJl IGluIHR3byBkaWlmZmVyZW50IGVuY29kaW5ncy4NCg0KSU1ITywgIElSSSBlZmZvcnRzIGRlc2Vy dmUgYSBXRy4gIEkgd2lsbCByZXN1bWUgdHJhY2tpbmcgdGhlIHByb2dyZXNzIG9mIElSSSBzcGVj Li4gOi0pDQoNClNvb2JvayBMZWUNCg== From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 27 20:34:57 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA09082 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AleOW-000Lcf-Kz for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:21:28 +0000 Received: from [202.27.17.100] (helo=sentosa.post1.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AleOA-000Lap-F7 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:21:06 +0000 Received: (qmail 28447 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 01:41:45 -0000 Received: from icsf.ida.gov.sg (HELO pobox.org.sg) (210.24.193.10) by sentosa.post1.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 01:41:45 -0000 Message-ID: <40170E76.3000102@pobox.org.sg> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:20:54 +0800 From: James Seng User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, zh-cn, zh-tw, ja, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soobok Lee CC: Michel Suignard , Stephane Bortzmeyer , Georg Ochsner , idn@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google References: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <000d01c3e4e8$071f4020$0102fea9@MASTER> In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e4e8$071f4020$0102fea9@MASTER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dont confuse ability to have "non-english characters in URL like file:" with IRI. The former "support" in MS is not IRI. ps: IRI is not a generic term for internationalization. it refers to a work-in-progress by W3C. -James Seng Soobok Lee wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Suignard" > To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" ; "Georg Ochsner" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:31 AM > Subject: RE: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google > > > >>Concerning IRI, it is not a matter of 'preference'. If you present >>something like a URI containing a host name presented in non ASCII >>repertoire, you are in fact using an illegal URI per RFC2396 definition. >>At minimum you need to have a clear definition on how such 'extended' >>URI (in other words IRI) are mapped to legal URI. This is a big part of >>the IRI draft spec currently worked on. The draft is at >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-duerst-iri-05.txt. The same >>goes for http, and any other URI schemes presented in browser user >>interface. > > > I know the importance of IRI effort. > > BTW, MSIE/Mozilla seem to support IRI concept in "file:" protocol already. > file: protocol URL had been supporting NETBIOS PC Name and File/Directory Pathname > in ***LOCAL CHARSET ENCODING***, not in UTF-8 encoding from very long time ago. > That works in Windows OS and even in LINUX. > > Moreover, Most asian HTML homepages are published in local charset encoding > like euc-kr, big5 and gb2312 etc. UTF-8-encoded HTML pages are extremely *RARE* > in ASIA. > > Need for backward compatibility to already deployed IRI-concept and > Unicode<->Local charset conversion layer may lay another complexity to IRI effort. > > Just comparing two IRIs won't be a trivial task, if they can be in two diifferent encodings. > > IMHO, IRI efforts deserve a WG. I will resume tracking the progress of IRI spec.. :-) > > Soobok Lee > > > From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 27 21:23:33 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA11541 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:23:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AlfEI-0001YP-Td for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:14:58 +0000 Received: from [211.196.150.53] (helo=postel5.postel.co.kr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AlfE5-0001Xq-E1 for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:14:45 +0000 Received: from MASTER ([220.86.20.180]) by postel5.postel.co.kr (8.13.0.PreAlpha4/8.13.0.PreAlpha4) with SMTP id i0S2ETtk018229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:14:32 +0900 Message-ID: <01e201c3e544$752435b0$0102fea9@MASTER> From: "CONFIRM.TO" To: "James Seng" Cc: "Michel Suignard" , "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , "Georg Ochsner" , References: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <000d01c3e4e8$071f4020$0102fea9@MASTER> <40170E76.3000102@pobox.org.sg> Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:14:24 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MIME_BASE64_LATIN, MIME_BASE64_TEXT,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,RCVD_IN_RFCI,RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SVJJJ3MgYXV0aG9ycyBjYW4gY2xhcmlmeSAgSVJJJ3MgZXhhY3Qgc2NvcGUuIFdvdWxkIHRoZXk/ DQoiSTE4bmVkIFJlc291cmNlIiBtYXkgaW5jbHVkZSAgbm9uLWVuZ2xpc2ggZmlsZS9kaXJlY3Rv 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TG9jYWwgY2hhcnNldCBjb252ZXJzaW9uIGxheWVyIG1heSBsYXkgYW5vdGhlciAgY29tcGxleGl0 eSB0byBJUkkgZWZmb3J0Lg0KPiA+ICANCj4gPiBKdXN0IGNvbXBhcmluZyB0d28gSVJJcyB3b24n dCBiZSBhIHRyaXZpYWwgdGFzaywgaWYgdGhleSBjYW4gYmUgaW4gdHdvIGRpaWZmZXJlbnQgZW5j b2RpbmdzLg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IElNSE8sICBJUkkgZWZmb3J0cyBkZXNlcnZlIGEgV0cuICBJIHdp bGwgcmVzdW1lIHRyYWNraW5nIHRoZSBwcm9ncmVzcyBvZiBJUkkgc3BlYy4uIDotKQ0KPiA+IA0K PiA+IFNvb2JvayBMZWUNCj4gPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPg== From owner-idn@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 27 21:57:03 2004 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12966 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:57:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from lserv by psg.com with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AlfiG-0004g7-Ji for idn-data@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:45:56 +0000 Received: from [211.196.150.53] (helo=postel5.postel.co.kr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1Alfi2-0004eT-Gj for idn@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:45:42 +0000 Received: from MASTER ([220.86.20.180]) by postel5.postel.co.kr (8.13.0.PreAlpha4/8.13.0.PreAlpha4) with SMTP id i0S2jMtk020712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:45:26 +0900 Message-ID: <022501c3e548$c6a89990$0102fea9@MASTER> From: "Soobok Lee" To: "James Seng" Cc: "Michel Suignard" , "Stephane Bortzmeyer" , "Georg Ochsner" , References: <84DD35E3DD87D5489AC42A59926DABE905812743@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <000d01c3e4e8$071f4020$0102fea9@MASTER> <40170E76.3000102@pobox.org.sg> Subject: Re: [idn] IDNs in IE and Google Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:45:17 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MIME_BASE64_LATIN, 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