From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 3 08:50:21 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04825; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PO8-0000KB-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PO8-0000K6-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:28 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5PNi-00042D-OF; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5PNO-00041l-C8 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04816 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PNM-0000Jq-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:40 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PNL-0000Jm-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:39 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:B31fN0en6Sgs+NRO5uWv9obA++MO31MX@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h93CnUN10603 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:49:30 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:49:30 +0100 (IST) Hi, I'm wondering about RFC1863 and how widely it is supported. In particular support for the client-mode aspects of the RFC, in particular the 2 following details: - 1863 specifies that a Route-Server (RS) can withdraw a specific announcement by sending the full announcement to the client but with the next-hop address in the next-hop attribute set to one of the addresses of the client. - presumably the RS-client can use the Advertiser attribute (which an RFC1863 RS should include in updates), or any other (if included), to discriminate between which announcements for that prefix the withdrawal was referring to. How many BGP implementations support these 2 things? Ie recognition of advertiser attribute and of next-hop-self withdrawal? (and can they properly discriminate withdrawals?) It seems 1863 is the only thing out there for route-serving which does not require policy to be defined on the RS itself. However, i can find no mention of support for this RFC in the documentation of major BGP implementations, other than in the RFC citations. Thanks in advance. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 3 08:50:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04848 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5POA-00044e-Os for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:31 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h93CoUqa015654 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:50:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5POA-00044P-GC for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04825; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PO8-0000KB-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PO8-0000K6-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:28 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5PNi-00042D-OF; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5PNO-00041l-C8 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04816 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PNM-0000Jq-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:40 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PNL-0000Jm-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:39 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:B31fN0en6Sgs+NRO5uWv9obA++MO31MX@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h93CnUN10603 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:49:30 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:49:30 +0100 (IST) Hi, I'm wondering about RFC1863 and how widely it is supported. In particular support for the client-mode aspects of the RFC, in particular the 2 following details: - 1863 specifies that a Route-Server (RS) can withdraw a specific announcement by sending the full announcement to the client but with the next-hop address in the next-hop attribute set to one of the addresses of the client. - presumably the RS-client can use the Advertiser attribute (which an RFC1863 RS should include in updates), or any other (if included), to discriminate between which announcements for that prefix the withdrawal was referring to. How many BGP implementations support these 2 things? Ie recognition of advertiser attribute and of next-hop-self withdrawal? (and can they properly discriminate withdrawals?) It seems 1863 is the only thing out there for route-serving which does not require policy to be defined on the RS itself. However, i can find no mention of support for this RFC in the documentation of major BGP implementations, other than in the RFC citations. Thanks in advance. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sat Oct 4 02:01:14 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13434; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fTj-0003uV-00; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fTj-0003uQ-00; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fTR-00075R-TK; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fT2-00073J-M3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12921 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fSy-0003tg-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:32 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fSx-0003tA-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h945xZr10973; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:59:35 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Dennis Ferguson cc: "John G. Scudder" , Jeffrey Haas , Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200309301928.h8UJShj14680@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:59:35 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Dennis Ferguson wrote: > > > > It is a bug in the specification sense because the spec does not include > > > > text that you should do loop prevention by discarding the path when it > > > > contains your own AS. > > > > > > The minimal theoretical requirement for loop termination (BGP doesn't > > > prevent loops which occur transiently, just guarantees they'll eventually > > > be stopped) is that you should discard the path when it includes your > > > own AS `N' times, for any `N' you care to choose. While N=1, which you like, > > > will terminate loops, letting N=2 or N=5 or N=12 will terminate them > > > just fine as well (though you are wasting convergence time if you make > > > `N' larger than the number of inter-AS border routers you have, at most). > > > It hence isn't a bug to allow `N' to be set to a value other than 1 in > > > any theoretical sense. > > > > I wouldn't call such an AS having a coherent routing plan. If you allow > > AS > 1, you're abusing the term AS. > > I notice you've changed the subject from one of protocol correctness, i.e. > whether routing loops are guaranteed to terminate, to one of policy, i.e. > whether, in your opinion, it is a good idea to do this to solve routing > problems one might have when using the protocol. These are invariably linked. BGP is built on a set of assumptions (e.g. on what it means to be an AS), and this seems to break that assumption. > As the people who originally responded to you implied, the BGP protocol > specification has always tried to limit itself to ensuring protocol > correctness while leaving policy to the users of the protocol. I think > that's still appropriate. That's a good goal, but going too far on that path is not useful... when it requires changes or features in the protocol to accommodate for the "policies" of the users. > > > > Further, there is no need to do anything of this sort if you get default > > > > routes from the Internet, or set up a backup (highest protocol distance) > > > > route towards the Internet. > > > > > > I'm sure you don't mean that one or the other of those things is always > > > possible to do. It is when neither of those things is possible that you > > > might want to set N>1 instead. > > > > Can you shown me a couple (or at least _one_) example where other methods > > are not possible and this is required? > > Suppose the operators of two multiply-connected networks agree to provide > backup routing to heal each other's partitions without offering transit > to the rest of "the Internet". Here you need explicit routing for the > destinations being backed up (they may already default traffic to "the > Internet" to other providers), and you certainly can't have two guys > pointing default routes at each other in any case. One can use explicit static routes to each other. Even a default route at one end, as long as you guarantee that at least one party has the full routing routing table, is possible. > Or, suppose three operators have entered into a similar arrangement, with > the partitioned guy being allowed to split his load across the other two. > You can't have two default routes pointing at different guys (especially > if "the Internet" is in some other direction), and you generally need > explicit routes to get a predictable load split. Equal cost multipathing should allow one to load-balance with a default route as well. Inbound traffic would be load split more roughly. But I don't think this is a realistic scenario. Planning for load balacing during the network partition... hello? > Of course these are only problems I can think of, there are likely > lots more problems that I can't imagine. The latter is the reason the > BGP specification should limit itself to protocol correctness issues, > leaving policy issues to the protocol users who actually have the > problems to solve. In both cases tunnels should fix the problem, and eliminate the root cause for this kind of behaviour. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 4 02:01:49 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13831 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fTq-00078P-8W for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:26 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9461Qi3027425 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:01:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fTp-00078C-KE for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13434; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fTj-0003uV-00; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fTj-0003uQ-00; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fTR-00075R-TK; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fT2-00073J-M3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12921 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fSy-0003tg-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:32 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fSx-0003tA-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h945xZr10973; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:59:35 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Dennis Ferguson cc: "John G. Scudder" , Jeffrey Haas , Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200309301928.h8UJShj14680@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:59:35 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Dennis Ferguson wrote: > > > > It is a bug in the specification sense because the spec does not include > > > > text that you should do loop prevention by discarding the path when it > > > > contains your own AS. > > > > > > The minimal theoretical requirement for loop termination (BGP doesn't > > > prevent loops which occur transiently, just guarantees they'll eventually > > > be stopped) is that you should discard the path when it includes your > > > own AS `N' times, for any `N' you care to choose. While N=1, which you like, > > > will terminate loops, letting N=2 or N=5 or N=12 will terminate them > > > just fine as well (though you are wasting convergence time if you make > > > `N' larger than the number of inter-AS border routers you have, at most). > > > It hence isn't a bug to allow `N' to be set to a value other than 1 in > > > any theoretical sense. > > > > I wouldn't call such an AS having a coherent routing plan. If you allow > > AS > 1, you're abusing the term AS. > > I notice you've changed the subject from one of protocol correctness, i.e. > whether routing loops are guaranteed to terminate, to one of policy, i.e. > whether, in your opinion, it is a good idea to do this to solve routing > problems one might have when using the protocol. These are invariably linked. BGP is built on a set of assumptions (e.g. on what it means to be an AS), and this seems to break that assumption. > As the people who originally responded to you implied, the BGP protocol > specification has always tried to limit itself to ensuring protocol > correctness while leaving policy to the users of the protocol. I think > that's still appropriate. That's a good goal, but going too far on that path is not useful... when it requires changes or features in the protocol to accommodate for the "policies" of the users. > > > > Further, there is no need to do anything of this sort if you get default > > > > routes from the Internet, or set up a backup (highest protocol distance) > > > > route towards the Internet. > > > > > > I'm sure you don't mean that one or the other of those things is always > > > possible to do. It is when neither of those things is possible that you > > > might want to set N>1 instead. > > > > Can you shown me a couple (or at least _one_) example where other methods > > are not possible and this is required? > > Suppose the operators of two multiply-connected networks agree to provide > backup routing to heal each other's partitions without offering transit > to the rest of "the Internet". Here you need explicit routing for the > destinations being backed up (they may already default traffic to "the > Internet" to other providers), and you certainly can't have two guys > pointing default routes at each other in any case. One can use explicit static routes to each other. Even a default route at one end, as long as you guarantee that at least one party has the full routing routing table, is possible. > Or, suppose three operators have entered into a similar arrangement, with > the partitioned guy being allowed to split his load across the other two. > You can't have two default routes pointing at different guys (especially > if "the Internet" is in some other direction), and you generally need > explicit routes to get a predictable load split. Equal cost multipathing should allow one to load-balance with a default route as well. Inbound traffic would be load split more roughly. But I don't think this is a realistic scenario. Planning for load balacing during the network partition... hello? > Of course these are only problems I can think of, there are likely > lots more problems that I can't imagine. The latter is the reason the > BGP specification should limit itself to protocol correctness issues, > leaving policy issues to the protocol users who actually have the > problems to solve. In both cases tunnels should fix the problem, and eliminate the root cause for this kind of behaviour. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sat Oct 4 17:01:06 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA14750; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tVT-0003lG-BG; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:00:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tV1-0003kN-1J for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14410 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5tUy-00035B-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:32 -0400 Received: from [81.199.84.99] (helo=ok6325.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5tUw-00034l-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:31 -0400 From: "Loi C. Estrada" Reply-To: lcaestrada@hknetmail.com To: idr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] Earnest Appeal Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:59:05 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friend=2C My name is LOI C=2EESTRADA=2CThe wife of Mr=2E JOSEPH ESTRADA=2C the former President of Philippines located in the South East Asia=2E My husband was recently impeached from office by a backed uprising of mass demonstrators and the Senate=2E My husband is presently in jail and facing trial on charges of corruption=2C embezzlement=2C and the mysterious charge of plunder which might lead to death sentence=2E The present government is forcing my husband out of Manila to avoid demonstration by his supporter=2E During my husband's regime as president of Philippine=2C I realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that I successfully executed=2E I have plans to invest this money for my children's future on real estate and industrial production=2E My husband is not aware of this because I wish to do it secretly for now=2E Before my husband was impeached=2C I secretly siphoned the sum of $38=2C000=2C000 million USD =28Thirty Eight million United states dollars=29 out of Philippines and deposited the money with a Finance firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means=2E I am contacting you because I want you to represent me as the beneficiary at the finance firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my foreign business partner=2E You shall also be required to assist me in investment my share in your country=2E I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it=2C rather assist me properly=2C I expect you to declare what percentage of the total money you will take for your assistance=2C When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Finanace company is and the payment pin code to claim the money which is very important=2E For now=2C let all our communication be by e-mail because my lines are right now connected to the Philippines Telecommunication Network services=2E Please also send me your telephone and fax number=2E I will ask my son to contact you to give you more details on the transaction and speedy the completion as soon as I received a positive response from you=2E Thank you and God bless you and family=2E Mrs=2E Loi C=2E Estrada alternate email address=3A lcaestrada=40hknetmail=2Ecom _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 4 17:01:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA14780 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tWe-000476-Mk for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:01:22 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h94L1Gd7015813 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:01:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tWe-00046y-HX for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:01:16 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA14750; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tVT-0003lG-BG; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:00:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tV1-0003kN-1J for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14410 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5tUy-00035B-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:32 -0400 Received: from [81.199.84.99] (helo=ok6325.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5tUw-00034l-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:31 -0400 From: "Loi C. Estrada" Reply-To: lcaestrada@hknetmail.com To: idr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] Earnest Appeal Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:59:05 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friend=2C My name is LOI C=2EESTRADA=2CThe wife of Mr=2E JOSEPH ESTRADA=2C the former President of Philippines located in the South East Asia=2E My husband was recently impeached from office by a backed uprising of mass demonstrators and the Senate=2E My husband is presently in jail and facing trial on charges of corruption=2C embezzlement=2C and the mysterious charge of plunder which might lead to death sentence=2E The present government is forcing my husband out of Manila to avoid demonstration by his supporter=2E During my husband's regime as president of Philippine=2C I realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that I successfully executed=2E I have plans to invest this money for my children's future on real estate and industrial production=2E My husband is not aware of this because I wish to do it secretly for now=2E Before my husband was impeached=2C I secretly siphoned the sum of $38=2C000=2C000 million USD =28Thirty Eight million United states dollars=29 out of Philippines and deposited the money with a Finance firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means=2E I am contacting you because I want you to represent me as the beneficiary at the finance firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my foreign business partner=2E You shall also be required to assist me in investment my share in your country=2E I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it=2C rather assist me properly=2C I expect you to declare what percentage of the total money you will take for your assistance=2C When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Finanace company is and the payment pin code to claim the money which is very important=2E For now=2C let all our communication be by e-mail because my lines are right now connected to the Philippines Telecommunication Network services=2E Please also send me your telephone and fax number=2E I will ask my son to contact you to give you more details on the transaction and speedy the completion as soon as I received a positive response from you=2E Thank you and God bless you and family=2E Mrs=2E Loi C=2E Estrada alternate email address=3A lcaestrada=40hknetmail=2Ecom _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sun Oct 5 20:56:22 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01093; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jfn-0006wY-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jfm-0006wT-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6JfN-0004Qu-9w; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Jep-0004QZ-Hj for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01081 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jen-0006wO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:25 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jel-0006wL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:24 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:NKW2QYIBWILO3FNZ7DkSaNWpqMpU3K0N@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h960suN21290; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:54:58 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Manav Bhatia cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Message-ID: References: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:54:56 +0100 (IST) Hi Manav, On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There are severe scaling problems with RFC 1863 and hence you wont find > many implementations supporting this (Path Attributes 12 and 13). Ah, ok. Out of curiosity: what are the scaling problems? Then my next question is: - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit withdraw?) Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all client peers policies). Ie a route-server which simply passes on all announcements received to all 'client' peers? Passing on the announcements of prefixes isnt a problem, but i'm not sure how an RS would discriminate withrawals (without withdrawing a prefix then reannouncing remaining valid announcements - but that is not feasible because of stability). thanks in advance, > Regards, > Manav PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had subscribed. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 5 20:56:54 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01124 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Jfq-0004TN-Ah for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:31 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h960uU2G017187 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:56:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Jfq-0004T8-72 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01093; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jfn-0006wY-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jfm-0006wT-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6JfN-0004Qu-9w; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Jep-0004QZ-Hj for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01081 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jen-0006wO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:25 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jel-0006wL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:24 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:NKW2QYIBWILO3FNZ7DkSaNWpqMpU3K0N@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h960suN21290; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:54:58 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Manav Bhatia cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Message-ID: References: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:54:56 +0100 (IST) Hi Manav, On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There are severe scaling problems with RFC 1863 and hence you wont find > many implementations supporting this (Path Attributes 12 and 13). Ah, ok. Out of curiosity: what are the scaling problems? Then my next question is: - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit withdraw?) Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all client peers policies). Ie a route-server which simply passes on all announcements received to all 'client' peers? Passing on the announcements of prefixes isnt a problem, but i'm not sure how an RS would discriminate withrawals (without withdrawing a prefix then reannouncing remaining valid announcements - but that is not feasible because of stability). thanks in advance, > Regards, > Manav PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had subscribed. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 01:58:24 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06624; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6OO6-0001Ez-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6OO5-0001Ew-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:29 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ONd-0004dh-9R; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ONN-0004dP-Mk for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06603 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ONK-0001E1-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:42 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ONJ-0001DU-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h965v2H12074; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:57:02 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:57:02 +0300 (EEST) Sorry for delay in responding.. On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > Responding to two issues which seem may warrant further discussion from > > me.. > > > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > > > - I got major headache when trying to read the aggregating rules > > > > especially in section 9.2.2.2 (and that was supposed to be the _simple_ > > > > rules :-(!!!) and ended up skipping them. > > > > > > > > substantial > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > > > > > > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > > > > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > > > > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > > > > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > > > > outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > > > > message format: > > > > > > > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > > > > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > > > > > > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those route > s > > > > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _coul > d_ > > > > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? > > Could you point me to the text in the spec that said that "feasible" is > a superset of "only those routes that the router itself uses" ? Look at the two quetes above and the definition of feasible: Feasible route A route that is available for use. Note: it says "is _available_ for use", not "is _being_ used". So, it seems clear that "feasible" seems to include also those routes which could be used, but for some reason (e.g. a preferred route exists) aren't. > > > > ==> also note that the former definition is (IMHO) operationally unsound. > > > > It prevents you from advertising P-t-P addresses and loopbacks (which als > o > > > > reside in IGP) using BGP, because the IGP distance is lower than BGP and > > > > "BGP route is never used in forwarding". (depending on how you interpret > > > > that). IMHO, this really needs to be changed to be OK. > > > > > > The current text reflects consensus reached by the WG. > > > > Note that there are two issues here: > > 1) the text is out-of-sync between sections 3 and 4.3, and > > 2) that the current definition of BGP route used for forwarding is not > > really useful. > > > > I take it that the comment 1) is still valid. > > > > Has 2) -- which you were probably referring to -- been raised as an issue > > in the spec? Any pointers to the issue, discussion, and the conclusion > > (the answer to the question "Why did the WG decide this way?") I fail to > > see why such a conclusion would be justified.. and if the relevant points > > haven't been raised already, I probably want to re-open that debate. > > >From draft-ietf-idr-bgp-issues-01.txt: > > After some additional discussion (in the "issue 11.2" thread), we > have come to a consensus on this text: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker > advertises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in > this context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the > most preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases > are outside the scope of this document. > > This issue is at consensus. > > So, the text in the spec represents consensus of the WG. Also note > the last sentence in the above paragraph. Thanks. There seems to have been some discussion on this, sure, but I don't see anything in the issue 11.2 text in the draft which would indicate why this definition of "use" has been adapted. The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive available somewhere which documents the discussion noted in the 11.2? When was that discussion held? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 01:58:56 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06655 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6OOA-0004fw-Q8 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:35 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h965wYBs017971 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:58:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6OOA-0004fm-0i for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06624; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6OO6-0001Ez-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6OO5-0001Ew-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:29 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ONd-0004dh-9R; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ONN-0004dP-Mk for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06603 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ONK-0001E1-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:42 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ONJ-0001DU-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h965v2H12074; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:57:02 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:57:02 +0300 (EEST) Sorry for delay in responding.. On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > Responding to two issues which seem may warrant further discussion from > > me.. > > > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > > > - I got major headache when trying to read the aggregating rules > > > > especially in section 9.2.2.2 (and that was supposed to be the _simple_ > > > > rules :-(!!!) and ended up skipping them. > > > > > > > > substantial > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > > > > > > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > > > > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > > > > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > > > > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > > > > outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > > > > message format: > > > > > > > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > > > > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > > > > > > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those route > s > > > > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _coul > d_ > > > > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? > > Could you point me to the text in the spec that said that "feasible" is > a superset of "only those routes that the router itself uses" ? Look at the two quetes above and the definition of feasible: Feasible route A route that is available for use. Note: it says "is _available_ for use", not "is _being_ used". So, it seems clear that "feasible" seems to include also those routes which could be used, but for some reason (e.g. a preferred route exists) aren't. > > > > ==> also note that the former definition is (IMHO) operationally unsound. > > > > It prevents you from advertising P-t-P addresses and loopbacks (which als > o > > > > reside in IGP) using BGP, because the IGP distance is lower than BGP and > > > > "BGP route is never used in forwarding". (depending on how you interpret > > > > that). IMHO, this really needs to be changed to be OK. > > > > > > The current text reflects consensus reached by the WG. > > > > Note that there are two issues here: > > 1) the text is out-of-sync between sections 3 and 4.3, and > > 2) that the current definition of BGP route used for forwarding is not > > really useful. > > > > I take it that the comment 1) is still valid. > > > > Has 2) -- which you were probably referring to -- been raised as an issue > > in the spec? Any pointers to the issue, discussion, and the conclusion > > (the answer to the question "Why did the WG decide this way?") I fail to > > see why such a conclusion would be justified.. and if the relevant points > > haven't been raised already, I probably want to re-open that debate. > > >From draft-ietf-idr-bgp-issues-01.txt: > > After some additional discussion (in the "issue 11.2" thread), we > have come to a consensus on this text: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker > advertises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in > this context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the > most preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases > are outside the scope of this document. > > This issue is at consensus. > > So, the text in the spec represents consensus of the WG. Also note > the last sentence in the above paragraph. Thanks. There seems to have been some discussion on this, sure, but I don't see anything in the issue 11.2 text in the draft which would indicate why this definition of "use" has been adapted. The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive available somewhere which documents the discussion noted in the 11.2? When was that discussion held? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 04:47:05 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22311; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R1M-0002Yj-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R1L-0002Yg-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R1C-0004CQ-P2; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R0O-0004Bi-3v for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22287 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R0J-0002Y8-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R0J-0002Y5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 22300 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 08:46:01 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 08:46:01 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:45:49 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:45:43 +0100 Hello Paul, Saw this thread and couldn't resist replying to it as I have been down this road already! Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular peer) on update. The only way to achieve something like this would be to use something like the RFC2547 standard for VPNs and change it to carry an appropriate discriminator for the particular update/withdraw combination. I have actually looked at this for our route server implementation as way of generating a clustering solution for route server systems. However to talk to a standard implementation the route server really needs to calculate path selection on its client peers behalf. This is exactly what our route server implementation does, in fact our implementation has a separate RIB for each connected peer so as to allow for complete flexibility. I hope this helps. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] Sent: 06 October 2003 01:55 To: Manav Bhatia Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Hi Manav, On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There are severe scaling problems with RFC 1863 and hence you wont find > many implementations supporting this (Path Attributes 12 and 13). Ah, ok. Out of curiosity: what are the scaling problems? Then my next question is: - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit withdraw?) Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all client peers policies). Ie a route-server which simply passes on all announcements received to all 'client' peers? Passing on the announcements of prefixes isnt a problem, but i'm not sure how an RS would discriminate withrawals (without withdrawing a prefix then reannouncing remaining valid announcements - but that is not feasible because of stability). thanks in advance, > Regards, > Manav PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had subscribed. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 04:47:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22342 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R1R-0004GB-Nb for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h968lHG2016374 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:47:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R1Q-0004G1-Vb for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22311; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R1M-0002Yj-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R1L-0002Yg-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R1C-0004CQ-P2; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R0O-0004Bi-3v for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22287 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R0J-0002Y8-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R0J-0002Y5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 22300 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 08:46:01 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 08:46:01 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:45:49 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:45:43 +0100 Hello Paul, Saw this thread and couldn't resist replying to it as I have been down this road already! Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular peer) on update. The only way to achieve something like this would be to use something like the RFC2547 standard for VPNs and change it to carry an appropriate discriminator for the particular update/withdraw combination. I have actually looked at this for our route server implementation as way of generating a clustering solution for route server systems. However to talk to a standard implementation the route server really needs to calculate path selection on its client peers behalf. This is exactly what our route server implementation does, in fact our implementation has a separate RIB for each connected peer so as to allow for complete flexibility. I hope this helps. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] Sent: 06 October 2003 01:55 To: Manav Bhatia Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Hi Manav, On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There are severe scaling problems with RFC 1863 and hence you wont find > many implementations supporting this (Path Attributes 12 and 13). Ah, ok. Out of curiosity: what are the scaling problems? Then my next question is: - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit withdraw?) Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all client peers policies). Ie a route-server which simply passes on all announcements received to all 'client' peers? Passing on the announcements of prefixes isnt a problem, but i'm not sure how an RS would discriminate withrawals (without withdrawing a prefix then reannouncing remaining valid announcements - but that is not feasible because of stability). thanks in advance, > Regards, > Manav PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had subscribed. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 09:11:18 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28648; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V94-0004wT-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V94-0004wQ-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V8f-00057O-MG; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V8O-000571-H6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28628 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V8M-0004w1-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V8M-0004vt-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMC00D0478Y9Z@mailout2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:10 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMC00I4Y78XHF@mailout2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMC005EG78VDO@mmp2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: Ian Campbell Cc: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <001801c38c0a$0ddced90$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:32:08 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ian, > Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a > prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of > attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not > overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular > peer) on update. You can do this with http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-00.txt To see how it may do that refer to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/index.html http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/sld13.HTM shows how one may selectively withdraw a prefix associated with a set of Path Attributes. Regards, Manav [clipped] _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 09:11:52 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28684 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V96-0005A1-Pg for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:31 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96DBSZP019831 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:11:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V96-00059m-KO for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28648; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V94-0004wT-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V94-0004wQ-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V8f-00057O-MG; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V8O-000571-H6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28628 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V8M-0004w1-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V8M-0004vt-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMC00D0478Y9Z@mailout2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:10 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMC00I4Y78XHF@mailout2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMC005EG78VDO@mmp2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: Ian Campbell Cc: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <001801c38c0a$0ddced90$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:32:08 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ian, > Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a > prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of > attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not > overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular > peer) on update. You can do this with http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-00.txt To see how it may do that refer to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/index.html http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/sld13.HTM shows how one may selectively withdraw a prefix associated with a set of Path Attributes. Regards, Manav [clipped] _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 09:22:59 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29140; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VKN-00055n-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VKM-00055i-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VKH-0005dc-Pa; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VK4-0005d1-7k for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29115 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VK2-000555-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:46 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VK2-000547-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:46 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Oct 2003 06:29:29 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (router.cisco.com [64.101.214.30]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h96DM9Js010989; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.3] (ssh-rtp-1.cisco.com [161.44.11.166]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19250; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jgs@router Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: Pekka Savola From: "John G. Scudder" Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:05 -0400 At 8:57 AM +0300 10/6/03, Pekka Savola wrote: >The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive >available somewhere ftp://ftp.merit.edu/mail.archives/idr/ Sue/Yakov, IMO it would probably be good to either migrate the old archives to the new and improved (?) IETF page, or add a pointer to the historical archives to the IDR WG page. --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 09:23:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29183 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VKP-0005gE-Mt for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96DN9SS021828 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:23:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VKP-0005fz-Gh for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29140; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VKN-00055n-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VKM-00055i-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VKH-0005dc-Pa; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VK4-0005d1-7k for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29115 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VK2-000555-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:46 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VK2-000547-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:46 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Oct 2003 06:29:29 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (router.cisco.com [64.101.214.30]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h96DM9Js010989; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.3] (ssh-rtp-1.cisco.com [161.44.11.166]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19250; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jgs@router Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: Pekka Savola From: "John G. Scudder" Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:05 -0400 At 8:57 AM +0300 10/6/03, Pekka Savola wrote: >The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive >available somewhere ftp://ftp.merit.edu/mail.archives/idr/ Sue/Yakov, IMO it would probably be good to either migrate the old archives to the new and improved (?) IETF page, or add a pointer to the historical archives to the IDR WG page. --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 10:35:08 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03628; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WSC-0006AY-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WSC-0006AV-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WRy-0000Uh-K4; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WR0-0000Tu-7Q for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:34:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03573 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WQx-00069v-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:33:59 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WQx-00069s-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:33:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 25122 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 14:33:54 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 14:33:54 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:33:44 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Manav Bhatia'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:33:37 +0100 Thanks for that Manav, Very interesting, shows I should check this list a little more often! I can see how this could be useful for creation of route server clusters (which are calculating best path for clients) as well as the original intended application. The reason for clusters in our case is to provide a way of scaling numbers of peers up by distributing CPU resources (for best path calculation), as well as to a limited extent memory resources. I can also see how our present software might be modified to allow peers greater control of their own policy by using the draft attributes as you intend (not too much of a jump!). Has there been any other interest shown so far? Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Manav Bhatia [mailto:manav@samsung.com] Sent: 06 October 2003 14:02 To: Ian Campbell Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Ian, > Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a > prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of > attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not > overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular > peer) on update. You can do this with http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-00.txt To see how it may do that refer to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/index.html http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/sld13.HTM shows how one may selectively withdraw a prefix associated with a set of Path Attributes. Regards, Manav [clipped] _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 10:35:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03673 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WSF-0000XC-Nm for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96EZJr2002053 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:35:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WSF-0000X2-Gp for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03628; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WSC-0006AY-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WSC-0006AV-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WRy-0000Uh-K4; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WR0-0000Tu-7Q for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:34:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03573 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WQx-00069v-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:33:59 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WQx-00069s-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:33:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 25122 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 14:33:54 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 14:33:54 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:33:44 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Manav Bhatia'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:33:37 +0100 Thanks for that Manav, Very interesting, shows I should check this list a little more often! I can see how this could be useful for creation of route server clusters (which are calculating best path for clients) as well as the original intended application. The reason for clusters in our case is to provide a way of scaling numbers of peers up by distributing CPU resources (for best path calculation), as well as to a limited extent memory resources. I can also see how our present software might be modified to allow peers greater control of their own policy by using the draft attributes as you intend (not too much of a jump!). Has there been any other interest shown so far? Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Manav Bhatia [mailto:manav@samsung.com] Sent: 06 October 2003 14:02 To: Ian Campbell Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Ian, > Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a > prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of > attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not > overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular > peer) on update. You can do this with http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-00.txt To see how it may do that refer to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/index.html http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/sld13.HTM shows how one may selectively withdraw a prefix associated with a set of Path Attributes. Regards, Manav [clipped] _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 10:42:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04117; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZl-0006Gy-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZl-0006Gv-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZh-00011w-HL; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZ4-000112-IX for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04041 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZ2-0006FG-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:20 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZ1-0006F4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:19 -0400 Received: from zbl6c012.us.nortel.com (zbl6c012.corpeast.baynetworks.com [132.245.205.62]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h96Efgw04296 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zbl6c002.us.nortel.com (zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com [132.245.205.52]) by zbl6c012.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SZWA3Q95; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (schavali-2.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.145.114]) by zbl6c002.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRQTB14Z; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3F817F25.4090806@nortelnetworks.com> X-Sybari-Trust: 2233a147 aee23e9e 2f398e84 00000104 From: Srikanth Chavali User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000606010103000901080000" Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:41:41 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000606010103000901080000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------000606010103000901080000 Content-Type: text/html; name="www1.ietf.org-mail-archive-ietf-announce-Current-msg26255.html" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="www1.ietf.org-mail-archive-ietf-announce-Current-msg26255.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt
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I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: Peer Prefix Limits Exchange in BGP
	Author(s)	: S. Chavali et al.
	Filename	: draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt
	Pages		: 14
	Date		: 2003-9-25
	
This document proposes a mechanism to allow BGP peers to coordinate
the setting of a limit on the number of prefixes which one BGP
speaker will send to its peer.  Coordination can prevent disruption
of the peering session or discarding of routes, which can occur when
a maximum prefix limit is configured on the 'receiving' peer, and the
'sending' peer exceeds the limit.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
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Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
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	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.
<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt>
--------------000606010103000901080000-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 10:43:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04154 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZo-00014O-KI for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96Eh8iP004106 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:43:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZo-000149-H1 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04117; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZl-0006Gy-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZl-0006Gv-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZh-00011w-HL; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZ4-000112-IX for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04041 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZ2-0006FG-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:20 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZ1-0006F4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:19 -0400 Received: from zbl6c012.us.nortel.com (zbl6c012.corpeast.baynetworks.com [132.245.205.62]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h96Efgw04296 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zbl6c002.us.nortel.com (zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com [132.245.205.52]) by zbl6c012.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SZWA3Q95; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (schavali-2.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.145.114]) by zbl6c002.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRQTB14Z; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3F817F25.4090806@nortelnetworks.com> X-Sybari-Trust: 2233a147 aee23e9e 2f398e84 00000104 From: Srikanth Chavali User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000606010103000901080000" Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:41:41 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000606010103000901080000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------000606010103000901080000 Content-Type: text/html; name="www1.ietf.org-mail-archive-ietf-announce-Current-msg26255.html" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="www1.ietf.org-mail-archive-ietf-announce-Current-msg26255.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt
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I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: Peer Prefix Limits Exchange in BGP
	Author(s)	: S. Chavali et al.
	Filename	: draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt
	Pages		: 14
	Date		: 2003-9-25
	
This document proposes a mechanism to allow BGP peers to coordinate
the setting of a limit on the number of prefixes which one BGP
speaker will send to its peer.  Coordination can prevent disruption
of the peering session or discarding of routes, which can occur when
a maximum prefix limit is configured on the 'receiving' peer, and the
'sending' peer exceeds the limit.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.
<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt>
--------------000606010103000901080000-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 11:32:08 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07701; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XLN-0007Gp-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XLM-0007Gm-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XL7-0002rW-Co; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XKh-0002r1-4m for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07628 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XKg-0007Fr-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:34 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XKf-0007FE-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:33 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96FUvaT090784 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shares@nexthop.com) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.233]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96FUlhv090755 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shares@nexthop.com) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Thread-Index: AcOMDRF/1ktmGK37QkuoSI826nXPnQAEbLZQ From: "Susan Hares" To: "John G. Scudder" , "Pekka Savola" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:42 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll work on both. Sue -----Original Message----- From: John G. Scudder [mailto:jgs@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:22 AM To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 At 8:57 AM +0300 10/6/03, Pekka Savola wrote: >The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive >available somewhere ftp://ftp.merit.edu/mail.archives/idr/ Sue/Yakov, IMO it would probably be good to either migrate the old=20 archives to the new and improved (?) IETF page, or add a pointer to=20 the historical archives to the IDR WG page. --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 11:32:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07738 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XLO-0002ug-Lr for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96FWIl5011192 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XLO-0002uR-HI for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07701; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XLN-0007Gp-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XLM-0007Gm-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XL7-0002rW-Co; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XKh-0002r1-4m for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07628 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XKg-0007Fr-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:34 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XKf-0007FE-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:33 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96FUvaT090784 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shares@nexthop.com) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.233]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96FUlhv090755 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shares@nexthop.com) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Thread-Index: AcOMDRF/1ktmGK37QkuoSI826nXPnQAEbLZQ From: "Susan Hares" To: "John G. Scudder" , "Pekka Savola" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:42 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll work on both. Sue -----Original Message----- From: John G. Scudder [mailto:jgs@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:22 AM To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 At 8:57 AM +0300 10/6/03, Pekka Savola wrote: >The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive >available somewhere ftp://ftp.merit.edu/mail.archives/idr/ Sue/Yakov, IMO it would probably be good to either migrate the old=20 archives to the new and improved (?) IETF page, or add a pointer to=20 the historical archives to the IDR WG page. --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 12:06:24 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08930; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XsW-0007iy-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XsW-0007iv-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xs1-0004yn-E6; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xr2-0004qr-4a for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:05:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08831 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xr0-0007gG-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:04:58 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xqz-0007fS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:04:58 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96G49ZG091864; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96G46hv091857; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h96G41d27138; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma , Ian Campbell Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031006120400.F12300@nexthop.com> References: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:54:56AM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:54:56AM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a > peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit > withdraw?) If you are talking strictly within the context of a route server, then 1863 has a mechanism already in it. However, 1863 has more than most people want out of a route server cluster in many cases. Recent proposals, including Manav's seem a bit cleaner. An interesting question is whether those proposals have been considered in a proxy-route-selection environment. 1863 was designed specifically for those requirements. > Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server > which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp > peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all > client peers policies). Manav's draft, also draft-walton-bgp-add-paths > PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had > subscribed. You may wish to verify you're subscribed to idr@ietf.org. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 12:06:55 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08972 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XsY-00054B-LP for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:34 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96G6Ysp019474 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:06:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XsY-000541-I9 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08930; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XsW-0007iy-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XsW-0007iv-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xs1-0004yn-E6; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xr2-0004qr-4a for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:05:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08831 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xr0-0007gG-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:04:58 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xqz-0007fS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:04:58 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96G49ZG091864; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96G46hv091857; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h96G41d27138; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma , Ian Campbell Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031006120400.F12300@nexthop.com> References: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:54:56AM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:54:56AM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a > peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit > withdraw?) If you are talking strictly within the context of a route server, then 1863 has a mechanism already in it. However, 1863 has more than most people want out of a route server cluster in many cases. Recent proposals, including Manav's seem a bit cleaner. An interesting question is whether those proposals have been considered in a proxy-route-selection environment. 1863 was designed specifically for those requirements. > Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server > which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp > peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all > client peers policies). Manav's draft, also draft-walton-bgp-add-paths > PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had > subscribed. You may wish to verify you're subscribed to idr@ietf.org. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 6 12:10:54 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09193; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xwt-0007nq-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xws-0007nn-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xwr-0005c5-5P; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xvt-0005Xm-QU for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09131 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xvs-0007ma-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xvr-0007m5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96G9R6I092116; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96G9Phv092109; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h96G9Kf27150; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 01:49:30PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 Paul, On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 01:49:30PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > It seems 1863 is the only thing out there for route-serving which > does not require policy to be defined on the RS itself. A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing concentrator. If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > However, i > can find no mention of support for this RFC in the documentation of > major BGP implementations, other than in the RFC citations. Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or history for). -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 12:11:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09257 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xwv-0005fw-AW for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96GB5tM021770 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:11:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xwv-0005eI-1z for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09193; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xwt-0007nq-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xws-0007nn-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xwr-0005c5-5P; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xvt-0005Xm-QU for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09131 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xvs-0007ma-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xvr-0007m5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96G9R6I092116; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96G9Phv092109; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h96G9Kf27150; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 01:49:30PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 Paul, On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 01:49:30PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > It seems 1863 is the only thing out there for route-serving which > does not require policy to be defined on the RS itself. A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing concentrator. If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > However, i > can find no mention of support for this RFC in the documentation of > major BGP implementations, other than in the RFC citations. Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or history for). -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 05:53:26 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA24967; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oX7-0003KF-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:33 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oX7-0003KA-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:33 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oWb-0008O4-1N; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oWE-0008Np-OD for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA24933 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oWA-0003JB-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:34 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oW4-0003J4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:28 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:TGeFsAppduj4vhLgbZ0KWF27ycFWB/qs@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h979q0N14746; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:52:01 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:52:00 +0100 (IST) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > concentrator. Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied /before/ path selection. (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths which /are/ applicable.) This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP peer). - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the client. The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). AIUI anyway. :) > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > history for). Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' type. However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party (eg an IX operating an RS). So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and withdrawals. I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. thanks! regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 05:53:59 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA24992 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oXC-0008Ql-4Y for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:39 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h979rcoX032401 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oXB-0008QW-Tg for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA24967; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oX7-0003KF-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:33 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oX7-0003KA-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:33 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oWb-0008O4-1N; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oWE-0008Np-OD for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA24933 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oWA-0003JB-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:34 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oW4-0003J4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:28 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:TGeFsAppduj4vhLgbZ0KWF27ycFWB/qs@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h979q0N14746; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:52:01 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:52:00 +0100 (IST) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > concentrator. Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied /before/ path selection. (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths which /are/ applicable.) This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP peer). - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the client. The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). AIUI anyway. :) > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > history for). Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' type. However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party (eg an IX operating an RS). So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and withdrawals. I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. thanks! regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 06:45:00 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26300; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pL1-0003nb-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pL1-0003nY-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pKw-0001tP-K1; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pKc-0001sn-QJ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26293 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pKY-0003nO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:38 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pKX-0003nH-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 31469 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 10:44:36 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 10:44:36 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:44:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: "'idr@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:44:19 +0100 Hello Paul, I would imagine in operation a route server like the one you have defined would properly operate with in an environment where policy is held in a mix of locations, that is some broad policy on the route server and some more detailed policy for traffic control on the client router(s). This would allow the expression of the kind of configurations that are used in public IX today where some parties would not want certain parties to receive their routes - usually for commercial reasons. Any solution would need to be able to fully replicate all the features of direct BGP session based peering as well as offer the advantages of route servers. I have to confess to not having looked at RFC1863 since starting with the development of our route server... however I had a bit more of a look at it when this thread came up. However, I think that Manav's draft offers exactly enough of a solution to what you/we are looking for; certainly it could be added to our implementation without too much trouble to allow a pure mode (where all announcements are sent) like you suggest or the mixed mode (some announcements sent based on broad policy) mentioned above. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] Sent: 07 October 2003 10:52 To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > concentrator. Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied /before/ path selection. (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths which /are/ applicable.) This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP peer). - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the client. The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). AIUI anyway. :) > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > history for). Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' type. However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party (eg an IX operating an RS). So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and withdrawals. I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. thanks! regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 06:45:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26330 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pL6-0001wy-J8 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97AjCVU007490 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:45:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pL6-0001wj-FL for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26300; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pL1-0003nb-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pL1-0003nY-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pKw-0001tP-K1; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pKc-0001sn-QJ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26293 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pKY-0003nO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:38 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pKX-0003nH-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 31469 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 10:44:36 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 10:44:36 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:44:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: "'idr@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:44:19 +0100 Hello Paul, I would imagine in operation a route server like the one you have defined would properly operate with in an environment where policy is held in a mix of locations, that is some broad policy on the route server and some more detailed policy for traffic control on the client router(s). This would allow the expression of the kind of configurations that are used in public IX today where some parties would not want certain parties to receive their routes - usually for commercial reasons. Any solution would need to be able to fully replicate all the features of direct BGP session based peering as well as offer the advantages of route servers. I have to confess to not having looked at RFC1863 since starting with the development of our route server... however I had a bit more of a look at it when this thread came up. However, I think that Manav's draft offers exactly enough of a solution to what you/we are looking for; certainly it could be added to our implementation without too much trouble to allow a pure mode (where all announcements are sent) like you suggest or the mixed mode (some announcements sent based on broad policy) mentioned above. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] Sent: 07 October 2003 10:52 To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > concentrator. Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied /before/ path selection. (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths which /are/ applicable.) This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP peer). - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the client. The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). AIUI anyway. :) > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > history for). Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' type. However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party (eg an IX operating an RS). So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and withdrawals. I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. thanks! regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 09:30:28 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01078; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rvA-0005X0-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rvA-0005Wx-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:36 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ruc-0000oL-3u; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ruT-0000nr-5C for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01058 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ruR-0005WN-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:51 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ruP-0005W2-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:50 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h97DTEj21807; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310071329.h97DTEj21807@merlot.juniper.net> To: idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <59927.1065533354.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] IDR Agenda Items Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:29:14 -0700 Folks, Its about time to start thinking about agenda items for the Minneapolis IETF. Please forward any IDR agenda items you might have to me and Sue. Sue & Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 09:31:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01123 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6rvD-0000rD-2q for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:39 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97DUd9K003289 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:30:39 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6rvC-0000qy-Un for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01078; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rvA-0005X0-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rvA-0005Wx-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:36 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ruc-0000oL-3u; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ruT-0000nr-5C for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01058 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ruR-0005WN-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:51 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ruP-0005W2-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:50 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h97DTEj21807; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310071329.h97DTEj21807@merlot.juniper.net> To: idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <59927.1065533354.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] IDR Agenda Items Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:29:14 -0700 Folks, Its about time to start thinking about agenda items for the Minneapolis IETF. Please forward any IDR agenda items you might have to me and Sue. Sue & Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:02:06 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02071; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sPm-0005ta-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sPm-0005tX-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sPZ-00024o-H4; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sP4-00023C-H3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02054 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sP2-0005t9-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:28 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sP1-0005sf-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:27 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97E0rQL027970; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97E0ghv027926; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97E0bf09194; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 10:52:00AM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 10:52:00AM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of > the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require > keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied > /before/ path selection. Sort of. To give a specific counter-example, a rsd "view" may be the same for all peers of that view. Route-selection was intended to be done on a per-view basis. > - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to > peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but > not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the > client. > > The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. The language of the RFC is unclear enough that this is a valid assumption. However, where's the benefit? You minimize the overhead of peering sessions, but that is it. The RFC does allow for route servers to share routes and distribute load thus making the proxy-routing case a bit easier to deal with. > > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > > Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. In the protocol, no. In practice, people run virtual router instances and multiple peering sessions to accomplish some of this where it is seen as necessary. > However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that > allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be > policy-aware. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:02:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02106 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sPp-0002CD-RP for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97E2Hqg008442 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:02:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sPp-0002C5-Lk for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02071; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sPm-0005ta-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sPm-0005tX-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sPZ-00024o-H4; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sP4-00023C-H3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02054 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sP2-0005t9-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:28 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sP1-0005sf-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:27 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97E0rQL027970; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97E0ghv027926; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97E0bf09194; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 10:52:00AM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 10:52:00AM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of > the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require > keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied > /before/ path selection. Sort of. To give a specific counter-example, a rsd "view" may be the same for all peers of that view. Route-selection was intended to be done on a per-view basis. > - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to > peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but > not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the > client. > > The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. The language of the RFC is unclear enough that this is a valid assumption. However, where's the benefit? You minimize the overhead of peering sessions, but that is it. The RFC does allow for route servers to share routes and distribute load thus making the proxy-routing case a bit easier to deal with. > > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > > Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. In the protocol, no. In practice, people run virtual router instances and multiple peering sessions to accomplish some of this where it is seen as necessary. > However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that > allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be > policy-aware. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:14:03 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03102; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sbL-00060L-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sbL-00060G-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sbB-0002oe-N4; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sb1-0002oJ-RZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03070 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6saz-000604-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:49 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6saw-0005zz-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:46 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:WIR7anV5SpZfOpzSeUqRN9s695oPXXJr@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EDBN22600; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:11 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:11 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Sort of. > > To give a specific counter-example, a rsd "view" may be the same > for all peers of that view. Route-selection was intended to be > done on a per-view basis. Yes, you could do it that way. Table per peer can be implemented by having one view per peering pairs. > The language of the RFC is unclear enough that this is a valid > assumption. Seems reasonably clear in section 4.3.2: "Route servers relay all acquired routes unaltered to their clients" :) > However, where's the benefit? You minimize the overhead of peering > sessions, but that is it. That may be the only overhead you want to minimise, yes. > The RFC does allow for route servers to share routes and distribute > load thus making the proxy-routing case a bit easier to deal with. Yes, though that bit of the RFC is a bit over-complex imho. Much simpler just to let the clients go "oh, i received that already from the other RS, ignore" in my mind. (given that clients probably would have to be able to cope with condition anyway, as the RS-clustering stuff (LIST message, lists of clients) seems a bit fragile to me). > In the protocol, no. In practice, people run virtual router > instances and multiple peering sessions to accomplish some of this > where it is seen as necessary. yes. but thats high overhead :) > What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The spirit of RFC 1863, ie route-servers which operate along the vein of the first paragraph of Sec. 4.3.2 in RFC1863 - ie pass on all announcements and withdrawals without doing path-selection. But it doesnt appear possible as things stand. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The Shuttle is now going five times the sound of speed. -- Dan Rather, first landing of Columbia _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:14:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03164 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sbP-0002sW-1q for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97EEF3s011058 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sbO-0002sH-Tz for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03102; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sbL-00060L-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sbL-00060G-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sbB-0002oe-N4; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sb1-0002oJ-RZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03070 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6saz-000604-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:49 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6saw-0005zz-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:46 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:WIR7anV5SpZfOpzSeUqRN9s695oPXXJr@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EDBN22600; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:11 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:11 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Sort of. > > To give a specific counter-example, a rsd "view" may be the same > for all peers of that view. Route-selection was intended to be > done on a per-view basis. Yes, you could do it that way. Table per peer can be implemented by having one view per peering pairs. > The language of the RFC is unclear enough that this is a valid > assumption. Seems reasonably clear in section 4.3.2: "Route servers relay all acquired routes unaltered to their clients" :) > However, where's the benefit? You minimize the overhead of peering > sessions, but that is it. That may be the only overhead you want to minimise, yes. > The RFC does allow for route servers to share routes and distribute > load thus making the proxy-routing case a bit easier to deal with. Yes, though that bit of the RFC is a bit over-complex imho. Much simpler just to let the clients go "oh, i received that already from the other RS, ignore" in my mind. (given that clients probably would have to be able to cope with condition anyway, as the RS-clustering stuff (LIST message, lists of clients) seems a bit fragile to me). > In the protocol, no. In practice, people run virtual router > instances and multiple peering sessions to accomplish some of this > where it is seen as necessary. yes. but thats high overhead :) > What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The spirit of RFC 1863, ie route-servers which operate along the vein of the first paragraph of Sec. 4.3.2 in RFC1863 - ie pass on all announcements and withdrawals without doing path-selection. But it doesnt appear possible as things stand. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The Shuttle is now going five times the sound of speed. -- Dan Rather, first landing of Columbia _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:22:58 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03780; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sjy-00067d-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sjx-00067a-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sjt-000399-7h; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6siw-00038L-4E for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:22:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03725 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sis-00066S-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:58 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sir-00065y-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:57 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97ELPs7028694; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97ELMhv028687; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97ELH309265; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:13:11PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:17 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:13:11PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > Seems reasonably clear in section 4.3.2: > > "Route servers relay all acquired routes unaltered to their clients" Indeed. A client *could* be another route server. :-) > Yes, though that bit of the RFC is a bit over-complex imho. Much > simpler just to let the clients go "oh, i received that already from > the other RS, ignore" in my mind. (given that clients probably would > have to be able to cope with condition anyway, as the RS-clustering > stuff (LIST message, lists of clients) seems a bit fragile to me). The failover and coordination issues are likely some of the reasons why this never really caught on. However, it does allow for you to avoid receiving multiple duplicate route instances from a peer which you can get even from just redundant route-reflector connections. If you're trying to minimize for memory, this may be ideal. In the context of RSd/RSng, in practice, being at one step removed in the forwarding plane from the router announcing was a serious operational issue. Blackholing due to ATM PVC issues was way too common. Having to coordinate between route servers for failover would likely be more of an issue than just building your network to hold the extra route instances from your live backup. > The spirit of RFC 1863, ie route-servers which operate along the vein > of the first paragraph of Sec. 4.3.2 in RFC1863 - ie pass on all > announcements and withdrawals without doing path-selection. > > But it doesnt appear possible as things stand. Understood. It will be interesting to see how the two current proposals fare. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:23:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03824 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sk1-0003CJ-JP for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97EN9Of012285 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:23:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sk1-0003C4-EI for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03780; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sjy-00067d-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sjx-00067a-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sjt-000399-7h; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6siw-00038L-4E for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:22:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03725 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sis-00066S-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:58 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sir-00065y-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:57 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97ELPs7028694; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97ELMhv028687; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97ELH309265; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:13:11PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:17 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:13:11PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > Seems reasonably clear in section 4.3.2: > > "Route servers relay all acquired routes unaltered to their clients" Indeed. A client *could* be another route server. :-) > Yes, though that bit of the RFC is a bit over-complex imho. Much > simpler just to let the clients go "oh, i received that already from > the other RS, ignore" in my mind. (given that clients probably would > have to be able to cope with condition anyway, as the RS-clustering > stuff (LIST message, lists of clients) seems a bit fragile to me). The failover and coordination issues are likely some of the reasons why this never really caught on. However, it does allow for you to avoid receiving multiple duplicate route instances from a peer which you can get even from just redundant route-reflector connections. If you're trying to minimize for memory, this may be ideal. In the context of RSd/RSng, in practice, being at one step removed in the forwarding plane from the router announcing was a serious operational issue. Blackholing due to ATM PVC issues was way too common. Having to coordinate between route servers for failover would likely be more of an issue than just building your network to hold the extra route instances from your live backup. > The spirit of RFC 1863, ie route-servers which operate along the vein > of the first paragraph of Sec. 4.3.2 in RFC1863 - ie pass on all > announcements and withdrawals without doing path-selection. > > But it doesnt appear possible as things stand. Understood. It will be interesting to see how the two current proposals fare. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:42:24 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04532; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2m-0006Lp-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2l-0006Lm-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:31 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2H-0004MF-DU; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2F-0004Lt-OP for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04517 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2B-0006LM-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:56 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2A-0006LJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:55 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:NKNSNoqKWkwEkGsgHV8YiorKqNF5B8ab@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EfbN23477; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:41:37 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:41:36 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Indeed. > > A client *could* be another route server. :-) yes :) > The failover and coordination issues are likely some of the reasons > why this never really caught on. However, it does allow for you to > avoid receiving multiple duplicate route instances from a peer > which you can get even from just redundant route-reflector > connections. Just specifying that 1863 style RS-clients should be prepared for duplicates and to deal with it probably would have been the simplest solution. (perfect is the enemy of good :) ) > If you're trying to minimize for memory, this may be ideal. I'm not too sure of the operational reasoning actually. I suspect commercial sensitivity of client policy and operational simplicity of not having to centralise that policy is the main factor in wanting 1863 style route-servers. > In the context of RSd/RSng, in practice, being at one step removed > in the forwarding plane from the router announcing was a serious > operational issue. Blackholing due to ATM PVC issues was way too > common. eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. > Having to coordinate between route servers for failover would > likely be more of an issue than just building your network to hold > the extra route instances from your live backup. Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard duplicates. :) > Understood. It will be interesting to see how the two current > proposals fare. yes, it will be. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: You can be replaced by this computer. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:42:56 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04568 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2p-0004QO-GX for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97EgZ3U017005 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:42:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2p-0004QC-CI for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04532; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2m-0006Lp-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2l-0006Lm-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:31 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2H-0004MF-DU; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2F-0004Lt-OP for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04517 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2B-0006LM-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:56 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2A-0006LJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:55 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:NKNSNoqKWkwEkGsgHV8YiorKqNF5B8ab@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EfbN23477; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:41:37 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:41:36 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Indeed. > > A client *could* be another route server. :-) yes :) > The failover and coordination issues are likely some of the reasons > why this never really caught on. However, it does allow for you to > avoid receiving multiple duplicate route instances from a peer > which you can get even from just redundant route-reflector > connections. Just specifying that 1863 style RS-clients should be prepared for duplicates and to deal with it probably would have been the simplest solution. (perfect is the enemy of good :) ) > If you're trying to minimize for memory, this may be ideal. I'm not too sure of the operational reasoning actually. I suspect commercial sensitivity of client policy and operational simplicity of not having to centralise that policy is the main factor in wanting 1863 style route-servers. > In the context of RSd/RSng, in practice, being at one step removed > in the forwarding plane from the router announcing was a serious > operational issue. Blackholing due to ATM PVC issues was way too > common. eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. > Having to coordinate between route servers for failover would > likely be more of an issue than just building your network to hold > the extra route instances from your live backup. Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard duplicates. :) > Understood. It will be interesting to see how the two current > proposals fare. yes, it will be. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: You can be replaced by this computer. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:55:55 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05190; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:55:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tFr-0006Xb-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tFq-0006XY-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFp-00053K-PH; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFB-000526-1G for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05114 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tF8-0006W6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:18 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tF8-0006Vj-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:18 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97EskQR029956; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Eshhv029948; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97EscT09525; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an > IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, > robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days > seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast media would be less prone to the problem. > Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just > dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard > duplicates. :) Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the route instances, others want to proxy their policy. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 10:56:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05218 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFv-00057W-Or for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97Eu7LD019676 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:56:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFv-00057G-6R for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05190; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:55:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tFr-0006Xb-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tFq-0006XY-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFp-00053K-PH; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFB-000526-1G for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05114 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tF8-0006W6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:18 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tF8-0006Vj-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:18 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97EskQR029956; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Eshhv029948; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97EscT09525; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an > IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, > robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days > seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast media would be less prone to the problem. > Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just > dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard > duplicates. :) Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the route instances, others want to proxy their policy. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:04:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05591; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOb-0006dz-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOb-0006dw-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOX-0005Z0-KF; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOC-0005YD-GY for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:40 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05543; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071504.LAA05543@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:28 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Autonomous System Confederations for BGP Author(s) : P. Traina Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2003-10-7 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-autonomous system routing protocol designed for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) networks. BGP requires that all BGP speakers within a single autonomous system (AS) must be fully meshed. This represents a serious scaling problem that has been well documented in a number of proposals. This document describes an extension to BGP which may be used to create a confederation of autonomous systems that is represented as a single autonomous system to BGP peers external to the confederation, thereby removing the A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-7110959.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-7110959.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:05:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05666 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOf-0005d7-7J for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97F59C5021640 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOe-0005cx-Va for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05591; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOb-0006dz-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOb-0006dw-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOX-0005Z0-KF; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOC-0005YD-GY for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:40 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05543; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071504.LAA05543@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:28 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Autonomous System Confederations for BGP Author(s) : P. Traina Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2003-10-7 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-autonomous system routing protocol designed for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) networks. BGP requires that all BGP speakers within a single autonomous system (AS) must be fully meshed. This represents a serious scaling problem that has been well documented in a number of proposals. This document describes an extension to BGP which may be used to create a confederation of autonomous systems that is represented as a single autonomous system to BGP peers external to the confederation, thereby removing the A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-7110959.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-7110959.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:09:58 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06013; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tTT-0006ju-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tTS-0006jr-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tTN-0006VA-PZ; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tT6-0006UV-Oq for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06010 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tT4-0006jn-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:42 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tT2-0006jk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:41 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:KwEM96TlR/TWCz3+butU8X8IB80uOS9+@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97F9ON24278; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from > someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much > less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. True, yes. Though, if the next-hops are /not/ on the broadcast media, then one could ensure that a received BGP route's next-hop would have a corresponding static in IGP. If not, pick another route which /does/ have a valid next-hop in IGP. Though, this only would work for the 1863 style route-server, where client-peers are fully informed and have multiple routes to choose from. For the RSng style 'path-selecting' RS, indeed, the RS might consider a next-hop valid and pass on what it sees as best-path, but the client might not have a route to the next-hop. > This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Can you think of any in the 1863 style RS model? It seems to me that as the client receives all announcements, 1863 would be more robust to reachability problems. (if we presume the BGP next-hops are distributed as IGP statics, and the RS-client peers participate in the IGP). > Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast > media would be less prone to the problem. indeed :) > Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the > route instances, others want to proxy their policy. Absolutely. Though, 1863-style seems more robust (if you avoid trying to co-ordinate the route-servers). regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. -- Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:10:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06030 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tTW-0006Yv-Dj for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97FAAqC025219 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:10:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tTW-0006Yg-92 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06013; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tTT-0006ju-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tTS-0006jr-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tTN-0006VA-PZ; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tT6-0006UV-Oq for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06010 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tT4-0006jn-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:42 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tT2-0006jk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:41 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:KwEM96TlR/TWCz3+butU8X8IB80uOS9+@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97F9ON24278; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from > someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much > less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. True, yes. Though, if the next-hops are /not/ on the broadcast media, then one could ensure that a received BGP route's next-hop would have a corresponding static in IGP. If not, pick another route which /does/ have a valid next-hop in IGP. Though, this only would work for the 1863 style route-server, where client-peers are fully informed and have multiple routes to choose from. For the RSng style 'path-selecting' RS, indeed, the RS might consider a next-hop valid and pass on what it sees as best-path, but the client might not have a route to the next-hop. > This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Can you think of any in the 1863 style RS model? It seems to me that as the client receives all announcements, 1863 would be more robust to reachability problems. (if we presume the BGP next-hops are distributed as IGP statics, and the RS-client peers participate in the IGP). > Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast > media would be less prone to the problem. indeed :) > Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the > route instances, others want to proxy their policy. Absolutely. Though, 1863-style seems more robust (if you avoid trying to co-ordinate the route-servers). regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. -- Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:20:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06426; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6te6-0006t5-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6te5-0006t2-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6te1-0006ra-AQ; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tdB-0006oN-5U for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06386 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6td8-0006sd-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:06 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6td8-0006sV-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:06 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97FJYnr030852; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97FJVhv030841; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97FJQ909691; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007111926.H9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 04:09:24PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:26 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 04:09:24PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > Though, if the next-hops are /not/ on the broadcast media, then one > could ensure that a received BGP route's next-hop would have a > corresponding static in IGP. If not, pick another route which /does/ > have a valid next-hop in IGP. The situation I was describing is a simple third-party nexthop case. Thus, the nexthop you give me needs to be on the same logical network as the one we both share. Using statics to resolve iBGP nexthops can lead to similar blackhole issues if not done carefully. > Though, this only would work for the 1863 style route-server, where > client-peers are fully informed and have multiple routes to choose > from. This happens even in normal BGP. > For the RSng style 'path-selecting' RS, indeed, the RS might consider > a next-hop valid and pass on what it sees as best-path, but the > client might not have a route to the next-hop. If the (non-route server) RS client can't resolve the nexthop, then it should not consider it a feasible route for route selection purposes. > Absolutely. Though, 1863-style seems more robust (if you avoid trying > to co-ordinate the route-servers). Given that we're at a point of stating opinions, I wish to make myself clear: I have no direct experience with 1863 and thus can't comment on how well it worked beyond a theoretical case. However, if we were to want to solve the same problem *today*, I wouldn't use it. I think we have better ideas at this point. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:21:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06452 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6te7-0006tw-KO for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97FL7hi026522 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:21:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6te7-0006th-H0 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06426; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6te6-0006t5-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6te5-0006t2-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6te1-0006ra-AQ; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tdB-0006oN-5U for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06386 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6td8-0006sd-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:06 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6td8-0006sV-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:06 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97FJYnr030852; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97FJVhv030841; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97FJQ909691; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007111926.H9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 04:09:24PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:26 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 04:09:24PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > Though, if the next-hops are /not/ on the broadcast media, then one > could ensure that a received BGP route's next-hop would have a > corresponding static in IGP. If not, pick another route which /does/ > have a valid next-hop in IGP. The situation I was describing is a simple third-party nexthop case. Thus, the nexthop you give me needs to be on the same logical network as the one we both share. Using statics to resolve iBGP nexthops can lead to similar blackhole issues if not done carefully. > Though, this only would work for the 1863 style route-server, where > client-peers are fully informed and have multiple routes to choose > from. This happens even in normal BGP. > For the RSng style 'path-selecting' RS, indeed, the RS might consider > a next-hop valid and pass on what it sees as best-path, but the > client might not have a route to the next-hop. If the (non-route server) RS client can't resolve the nexthop, then it should not consider it a feasible route for route selection purposes. > Absolutely. Though, 1863-style seems more robust (if you avoid trying > to co-ordinate the route-servers). Given that we're at a point of stating opinions, I wish to make myself clear: I have no direct experience with 1863 and thus can't comment on how well it worked beyond a theoretical case. However, if we were to want to solve the same problem *today*, I wouldn't use it. I think we have better ideas at this point. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:24:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07405; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thx-00077W-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thx-00077S-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6thu-00078b-25; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tha-00077t-DQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07320 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thZ-00074r-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:41 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thY-00074n-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 1409 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 15:24:42 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 15:24:42 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:24:22 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Jeffrey Haas'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:24:21 +0100 Of course there are problems a bit like this on route server based ethernet based networks as well ;) Perhaps the most important one that I have come across so far is the disconnection of ARP and switch MAC address tables when asymmetric traffic flows are created - which is common enough in BGP. This can cause traffic to be broadcast to all ports. On the redundancy / co-ordination question. We currently dual session everything in our exchange structure and have no links between our redundant route server pairs - this of course means sending everything to client peers twice. But IMHO lack of memory of peers is much less of a problem than it may have been in the past. Most people have sufficient resources on their boxes. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Haas [mailto:jhaas@nexthop.com] Sent: 07 October 2003 15:55 To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an > IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, > robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days > seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast media would be less prone to the problem. > Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just > dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard > duplicates. :) Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the route instances, others want to proxy their policy. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:25:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07497 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6thy-0007CY-Va for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97FP6HD027676 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:25:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6thy-0007CJ-Qy for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07405; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thx-00077W-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thx-00077S-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6thu-00078b-25; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tha-00077t-DQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07320 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thZ-00074r-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:41 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thY-00074n-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 1409 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 15:24:42 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 15:24:42 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:24:22 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Jeffrey Haas'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:24:21 +0100 Of course there are problems a bit like this on route server based ethernet based networks as well ;) Perhaps the most important one that I have come across so far is the disconnection of ARP and switch MAC address tables when asymmetric traffic flows are created - which is common enough in BGP. This can cause traffic to be broadcast to all ports. On the redundancy / co-ordination question. We currently dual session everything in our exchange structure and have no links between our redundant route server pairs - this of course means sending everything to client peers twice. But IMHO lack of memory of peers is much less of a problem than it may have been in the past. Most people have sufficient resources on their boxes. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Haas [mailto:jhaas@nexthop.com] Sent: 07 October 2003 15:55 To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an > IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, > robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days > seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast media would be less prone to the problem. > Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just > dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard > duplicates. :) Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the route instances, others want to proxy their policy. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 14:58:09 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16522; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6x2G-0002DS-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6x2G-0002DP-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x21-0000ng-LN; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x1N-0000lV-Ij for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:57:21 -0400 Received: from coolre4570.com (host-64-110-77-2.interpacket.net [64.110.77.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA16493 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071856.OAA16493@ietf.org> From: "MR.PRINCE MOSES" Reply-To: prince_moses2020@yahoo.com To: idr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] urgent Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:56:55 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention=3A Sir=2FMa=2C First=2C I must solicit your strictest understanding in this matter=2E if the content of this mail does meet with your approval=2C I humbly request your urgent attention=2E I am Mr PRINCE MOSES=2CThe Principal Auditor=2C Albaraka Bank Limited=2C There is an account opened since 1984=2C and since I990 nobody has operated on this account again=2E After intensive investigation i discovered that the owner of this account was the President AVK STEEL PLANT CO=2C A foreigner and he died in 1990 and since then the account has no beneficiary=2E My investigation proved to me as well that the company does not know anything about the account=2C the account involved US$18=2E6 million=2E In the light of the above fact=2C indeed your assistance to open door to this opportunity by providing you information required and modality to make this business successfully=2E Your assistance as a foreigner is necessary because the management is ready to welcome any person=2C a foreigner who has correct information of this account=2C which I will give to you immediately if you are interested to conclude this transaction with me=2E You should be informed strictly that I will burn all the documents in your presence immediately after this money has been remitted to your account and you should bear in mind that we shall meet face to face for sharing in your country=2E I will apply for annual leave immediately I hear from you that you are ready to act and receive this fund in your account=2E At the conclusion of this business you will be given 25% of the total amount=2C 70% will be for me=2C 5% for expenses=2E I look forward to your earliest reply=2E Please treat this matter with absolute secrecy on indicating your interest for the success of this business=2E Regards=2C Mr=2EPRINCE MOSES _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 14:58:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16558 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x2K-0000q9-H4 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97IwKtm003225 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:58:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x2K-0000pw-Cq for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16522; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6x2G-0002DS-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6x2G-0002DP-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x21-0000ng-LN; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x1N-0000lV-Ij for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:57:21 -0400 Received: from coolre4570.com (host-64-110-77-2.interpacket.net [64.110.77.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA16493 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071856.OAA16493@ietf.org> From: "MR.PRINCE MOSES" Reply-To: prince_moses2020@yahoo.com To: idr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] urgent Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:56:55 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention=3A Sir=2FMa=2C First=2C I must solicit your strictest understanding in this matter=2E if the content of this mail does meet with your approval=2C I humbly request your urgent attention=2E I am Mr PRINCE MOSES=2CThe Principal Auditor=2C Albaraka Bank Limited=2C There is an account opened since 1984=2C and since I990 nobody has operated on this account again=2E After intensive investigation i discovered that the owner of this account was the President AVK STEEL PLANT CO=2C A foreigner and he died in 1990 and since then the account has no beneficiary=2E My investigation proved to me as well that the company does not know anything about the account=2C the account involved US$18=2E6 million=2E In the light of the above fact=2C indeed your assistance to open door to this opportunity by providing you information required and modality to make this business successfully=2E Your assistance as a foreigner is necessary because the management is ready to welcome any person=2C a foreigner who has correct information of this account=2C which I will give to you immediately if you are interested to conclude this transaction with me=2E You should be informed strictly that I will burn all the documents in your presence immediately after this money has been remitted to your account and you should bear in mind that we shall meet face to face for sharing in your country=2E I will apply for annual leave immediately I hear from you that you are ready to act and receive this fund in your account=2E At the conclusion of this business you will be given 25% of the total amount=2C 70% will be for me=2C 5% for expenses=2E I look forward to your earliest reply=2E Please treat this matter with absolute secrecy on indicating your interest for the success of this business=2E Regards=2C Mr=2EPRINCE MOSES _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 15:58:00 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19799; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xyA-0002oz-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xyA-0002ow-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xy5-0003bM-GC; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xxD-0003aq-2B for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19747 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xxB-0002nV-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:05 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xxA-0002md-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97JuVg12162; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:31 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:30 +0300 (EEST) Hi again, [clipping the quote down] On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: [...] > From draft-ietf-idr-bgp-issues-01.txt: > > After some additional discussion (in the "issue 11.2" thread), we > have come to a consensus on this text: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker > advertises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in > this context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the > most preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases > are outside the scope of this document. > > This issue is at consensus. > > So, the text in the spec represents consensus of the WG. Also note > the last sentence in the above paragraph. I've looked at the several threads in the archives, which do not seem to address the relevant points at all. So, I think the issue needs to be reconsidered. For example, consider a scenario of three routers in two ASs: rtr1 | | rtr2 --- rtr3 AS1 | ---- | AS2 AS2 -----' '----- rtr3 is configured to advertise prefix 1.0.0.0/8 using BGP. It has an IBGP session to rtr2, where it will advertise it. The AS2 also has an IGP, which includes only the loopbacks and point-to-point addresses of the AS. IBGP also includes the loopback addresses and point-to-point addresses. AS2 also wants to advertise the loopback addresses and PtP's to AS1 using specific communities marked at the routers. (There are multiple reasons advertising loopbacks/ptps such is desirable.. for example, our network employs private AS numbers and eBGP sessions and this is vital.) Now, rtr2 advertises the prefix 1.0.0.0/8 just fine using eBGP to rtr1, but the loopback addresses and PtP's won't get advertised because the IGP is more preferred, and for BGP's perspective, the BGP routes are not "active". Workarounds to this issue exist: - use an implementation-specific clause like "advertise-inactive", breaking the spec, to advertise them anyway, or - redistribute the IGP routes to BGP at the border router rtr2, losing communities etc. markings of iBGP in the process. Ugly. What I'm arguing here that there seem to be very clear operational reasons why the "BGP route must be used for forwarding" is very counterproductive and we should fix/clarify the spec to have a more useful definition for it. Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 15:58:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19850 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xyH-0003e7-LA for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97JwDSS014004 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:58:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xyH-0003dk-9i for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19799; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xyA-0002oz-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xyA-0002ow-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xy5-0003bM-GC; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xxD-0003aq-2B for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19747 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xxB-0002nV-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:05 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xxA-0002md-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97JuVg12162; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:31 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:30 +0300 (EEST) Hi again, [clipping the quote down] On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: [...] > From draft-ietf-idr-bgp-issues-01.txt: > > After some additional discussion (in the "issue 11.2" thread), we > have come to a consensus on this text: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker > advertises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in > this context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the > most preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases > are outside the scope of this document. > > This issue is at consensus. > > So, the text in the spec represents consensus of the WG. Also note > the last sentence in the above paragraph. I've looked at the several threads in the archives, which do not seem to address the relevant points at all. So, I think the issue needs to be reconsidered. For example, consider a scenario of three routers in two ASs: rtr1 | | rtr2 --- rtr3 AS1 | ---- | AS2 AS2 -----' '----- rtr3 is configured to advertise prefix 1.0.0.0/8 using BGP. It has an IBGP session to rtr2, where it will advertise it. The AS2 also has an IGP, which includes only the loopbacks and point-to-point addresses of the AS. IBGP also includes the loopback addresses and point-to-point addresses. AS2 also wants to advertise the loopback addresses and PtP's to AS1 using specific communities marked at the routers. (There are multiple reasons advertising loopbacks/ptps such is desirable.. for example, our network employs private AS numbers and eBGP sessions and this is vital.) Now, rtr2 advertises the prefix 1.0.0.0/8 just fine using eBGP to rtr1, but the loopback addresses and PtP's won't get advertised because the IGP is more preferred, and for BGP's perspective, the BGP routes are not "active". Workarounds to this issue exist: - use an implementation-specific clause like "advertise-inactive", breaking the spec, to advertise them anyway, or - redistribute the IGP routes to BGP at the border router rtr2, losing communities etc. markings of iBGP in the process. Ugly. What I'm arguing here that there seem to be very clear operational reasons why the "BGP route must be used for forwarding" is very counterproductive and we should fix/clarify the spec to have a more useful definition for it. Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 16:23:09 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20952; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yMW-0003IW-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yMW-0003IT-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yMH-0005V7-HF; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yLO-0005Oc-ON for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20927 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yLL-0003H6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:03 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yLL-0003GS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:03 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h97KLPj57273; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310072021.h97KLPj57273@merlot.juniper.net> To: Pekka Savola cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:50:26 +0300." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <48260.1065558085.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:21:25 -0700 Pekka, > substantial > ----------- > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > outside the scope of this document. > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > message format: > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those routes > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _could_ > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? Keep in mind that the term "feasible" applies to routes *being* advertised by a BGP speaker (in BGP UPDATE messages). Such routes are available for use *by the recipients* (by the BGP speakers that receive these UPDATE messages). And according to Section 3, to be feasible, a route has to be used by the router that advertises such a route as feasible. To clarify I'll fix the definition of Feasible route as follows: Feasible route An advertised route that is available for use by the recipient. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 16:23:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21006 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yMZ-0005aU-Fs for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97KNJ79021472 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:23:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yMZ-0005aF-9J for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20952; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yMW-0003IW-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yMW-0003IT-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yMH-0005V7-HF; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yLO-0005Oc-ON for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20927 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yLL-0003H6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:03 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yLL-0003GS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:03 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h97KLPj57273; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310072021.h97KLPj57273@merlot.juniper.net> To: Pekka Savola cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:50:26 +0300." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <48260.1065558085.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:21:25 -0700 Pekka, > substantial > ----------- > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > outside the scope of this document. > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > message format: > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those routes > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _could_ > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? Keep in mind that the term "feasible" applies to routes *being* advertised by a BGP speaker (in BGP UPDATE messages). Such routes are available for use *by the recipients* (by the BGP speakers that receive these UPDATE messages). And according to Section 3, to be feasible, a route has to be used by the router that advertises such a route as feasible. To clarify I'll fix the definition of Feasible route as follows: Feasible route An advertised route that is available for use by the recipient. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 7 21:00:17 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00040; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72gi-00065A-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72gh-000657-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72gP-0001g0-17; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72fO-0001ei-BL for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:59:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29990 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72fL-00064N-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72fL-00063q-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (roque-bsd.juniper.net [172.17.12.183]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h980wTj87808; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque@juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id h980wTZ45779; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque) Message-Id: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: References: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the forwarding table those guarantees disapear. The BGP specification is concerned w/ protocol correctness and needs to present a loop free algorithm. It is an horse which as been beaten to death many times already in this mailing list. Pedro. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 21:00:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00079 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72gl-0001iv-8j for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:27 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9810R0e006619 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:00:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72gl-0001ig-3H for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00040; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72gi-00065A-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72gh-000657-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72gP-0001g0-17; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72fO-0001ei-BL for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:59:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29990 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72fL-00064N-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72fL-00063q-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (roque-bsd.juniper.net [172.17.12.183]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h980wTj87808; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque@juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id h980wTZ45779; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque) Message-Id: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: References: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the forwarding table those guarantees disapear. The BGP specification is concerned w/ protocol correctness and needs to present a loop free algorithm. It is an horse which as been beaten to death many times already in this mailing list. Pedro. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 8 01:43:04 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05910; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A776L-0000Xv-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A776L-0000Xs-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A776D-0005P7-6U; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A775h-0005Kx-O7 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05852 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A775e-0000Wb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:26 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A775d-0000W7-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h985frE19281; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:41:53 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Pedro Roque Marques cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:41:52 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > Pekka Savola writes: > > Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? > > The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing or > forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the > forwarding table those guarantees disapear. The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as well) _is_ in the forwarding table. > The BGP specification is concerned w/ protocol correctness and needs > to present a loop free algorithm. I think it has been shown that this is not a real problem. For example, in: ==== Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:14:34 -0700 From: Dennis Ferguson I have this view that routing protocols should be constrained to be basically correct (i.e. do what is necessary to prevent loops and otherwise ensure that they can actually reach the destinations they say they can), but that anything else is fair game. I don't like what Cisco does, and certainly wouldn't have wanted the original BGP spec to say this, since it is hard to think through a theoretical assurance of basic correctness compared to just constraining routers to advertise only the routes they are using. On the other hand, they did it this way anyway and we now have a lot of experience which says that routers can behave like this without causing any particular damage, so I don't object to a change which makes the document more closely reflect the practical reality. ===== > It is an horse which as been beaten to death many times already in this > mailing list. And every time I looked at it, the reason why this was not done was because of some really bogus reasons, e.g. redistributing EBGP routes to IGP to get partial mesh-IBGP. I failed to see this particular, very real scenario ever brought up in the discussion in the archives. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 01:43:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05950 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A776P-0005Rl-It for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h985hDjZ020931 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:43:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A776P-0005RW-Fg for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05910; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A776L-0000Xv-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A776L-0000Xs-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A776D-0005P7-6U; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A775h-0005Kx-O7 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05852 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A775e-0000Wb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:26 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A775d-0000W7-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h985frE19281; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:41:53 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Pedro Roque Marques cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:41:52 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > Pekka Savola writes: > > Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? > > The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing or > forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the > forwarding table those guarantees disapear. The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as well) _is_ in the forwarding table. > The BGP specification is concerned w/ protocol correctness and needs > to present a loop free algorithm. I think it has been shown that this is not a real problem. For example, in: ==== Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:14:34 -0700 From: Dennis Ferguson I have this view that routing protocols should be constrained to be basically correct (i.e. do what is necessary to prevent loops and otherwise ensure that they can actually reach the destinations they say they can), but that anything else is fair game. I don't like what Cisco does, and certainly wouldn't have wanted the original BGP spec to say this, since it is hard to think through a theoretical assurance of basic correctness compared to just constraining routers to advertise only the routes they are using. On the other hand, they did it this way anyway and we now have a lot of experience which says that routers can behave like this without causing any particular damage, so I don't object to a change which makes the document more closely reflect the practical reality. ===== > It is an horse which as been beaten to death many times already in this > mailing list. And every time I looked at it, the reason why this was not done was because of some really bogus reasons, e.g. redistributing EBGP routes to IGP to get partial mesh-IBGP. I failed to see this particular, very real scenario ever brought up in the discussion in the archives. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 8 02:03:59 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA10504; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Qb-0000je-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Qb-0000jb-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77QX-0006Of-5K; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77Q3-0006NP-K3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09846 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Pz-0000jX-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:27 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Pz-0000jR-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9862Av19463; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:02:11 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200310072021.h97KLPj57273@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:02:10 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > substantial > > ----------- > > > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > > outside the scope of this document. > > > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > > message format: > > > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those routes > > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _could_ > > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? > > Keep in mind that the term "feasible" applies to routes *being* advertised > by a BGP speaker (in BGP UPDATE messages). Such routes are available for use > *by the recipients* (by the BGP speakers that receive these UPDATE messages). > And according to Section 3, to be feasible, a route has to be used by the > router that advertises such a route as feasible. > > To clarify I'll fix the definition of Feasible route as follows: > > Feasible route > > An advertised route that is available for use by the recipient. This addresses my concern about ambiguity. Thanks. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 02:04:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11101 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77Qi-0006R8-Qg for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9864CMg024735 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:04:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77Qg-0006Qr-Dr for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA10504; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Qb-0000je-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Qb-0000jb-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77QX-0006Of-5K; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77Q3-0006NP-K3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09846 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Pz-0000jX-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:27 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Pz-0000jR-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9862Av19463; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:02:11 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200310072021.h97KLPj57273@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:02:10 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > substantial > > ----------- > > > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > > outside the scope of this document. > > > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > > message format: > > > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those routes > > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _could_ > > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? > > Keep in mind that the term "feasible" applies to routes *being* advertised > by a BGP speaker (in BGP UPDATE messages). Such routes are available for use > *by the recipients* (by the BGP speakers that receive these UPDATE messages). > And according to Section 3, to be feasible, a route has to be used by the > router that advertises such a route as feasible. > > To clarify I'll fix the definition of Feasible route as follows: > > Feasible route > > An advertised route that is available for use by the recipient. This addresses my concern about ambiguity. Thanks. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 8 08:19:54 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA11324; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DIQ-00044H-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DIP-00044A-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DFV-00015N-5N; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:17:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DEX-00013W-SZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA11187 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DEW-00041M-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DEV-00040l-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMF00G04U19E5@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMF0029SU19N3@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMF00GAKU15PP@mmp1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: Ian Campbell , "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <006301c38d94$b1caccc0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:37:04 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Badri, It seems that people are now comfortable with my draft and are looking at it for solving some of their existing problems. Things are beginning to finally take shape. Francious and Gargi (both from Cisco) and myself are working on a unified draft to come out with a combined solution. It should be out by early next year. Very few things remain which need to be sorted out. Just to keep you in loop. Manav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Campbell" To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > Hello Paul, > I would imagine in operation a route server like the one you have > defined would properly operate with in an environment where policy is held [clipped] > > I have to confess to not having looked at RFC1863 since starting with the > development of our route server... however I had a bit more of a look at it > when this thread came up. However, I think that Manav's draft offers exactly > enough of a solution to what you/we are looking for; certainly it could be > added to our implementation without too much trouble to allow a pure mode > (where all announcements are sent) like you suggest or the mixed mode (some > announcements sent based on broad policy) mentioned above. > > Regards, > > Ian Campbell > Band-X Ltd. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] > Sent: 07 October 2003 10:52 > To: Jeffrey Haas > Cc: idr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > > concentrator. > > Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: > > - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of > the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require > keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied > /before/ path selection. > > (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not > applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths > which /are/ applicable.) > > This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. > The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a > client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP > peer). > > - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to > peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but > not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the > client. > > The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the > impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous > announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not > possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to > client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). > > AIUI anyway. :) > > > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > > Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > > > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. > > Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the > RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement > reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with > receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > > > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > > history for). > > Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' > type. > > However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that > allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be > policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured > with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can > be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client > peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party > (eg an IX operating an RS). > > So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS > that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and > withdrawals. > > I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. > > thanks! > > regards, > -- > Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A > warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st > Fortune: > Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only > be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. > (Unknown source) > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 08:20:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA11343 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DIU-0001QC-Ev for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98CK5bE005458 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:20:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DIS-0001Pw-SG for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA11324; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DIQ-00044H-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DIP-00044A-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DFV-00015N-5N; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:17:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DEX-00013W-SZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA11187 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DEW-00041M-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DEV-00040l-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMF00G04U19E5@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMF0029SU19N3@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMF00GAKU15PP@mmp1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: Ian Campbell , "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <006301c38d94$b1caccc0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:37:04 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Badri, It seems that people are now comfortable with my draft and are looking at it for solving some of their existing problems. Things are beginning to finally take shape. Francious and Gargi (both from Cisco) and myself are working on a unified draft to come out with a combined solution. It should be out by early next year. Very few things remain which need to be sorted out. Just to keep you in loop. Manav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Campbell" To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > Hello Paul, > I would imagine in operation a route server like the one you have > defined would properly operate with in an environment where policy is held [clipped] > > I have to confess to not having looked at RFC1863 since starting with the > development of our route server... however I had a bit more of a look at it > when this thread came up. However, I think that Manav's draft offers exactly > enough of a solution to what you/we are looking for; certainly it could be > added to our implementation without too much trouble to allow a pure mode > (where all announcements are sent) like you suggest or the mixed mode (some > announcements sent based on broad policy) mentioned above. > > Regards, > > Ian Campbell > Band-X Ltd. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] > Sent: 07 October 2003 10:52 > To: Jeffrey Haas > Cc: idr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > > concentrator. > > Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: > > - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of > the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require > keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied > /before/ path selection. > > (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not > applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths > which /are/ applicable.) > > This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. > The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a > client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP > peer). > > - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to > peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but > not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the > client. > > The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the > impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous > announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not > possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to > client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). > > AIUI anyway. :) > > > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > > Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > > > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. > > Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the > RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement > reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with > receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > > > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > > history for). > > Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' > type. > > However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that > allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be > policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured > with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can > be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client > peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party > (eg an IX operating an RS). > > So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS > that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and > withdrawals. > > I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. > > thanks! > > regards, > -- > Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A > warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st > Fortune: > Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only > be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. > (Unknown source) > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 8 09:38:11 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14420; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EWA-000529-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EWA-000526-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EVt-0006QG-Rb; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EVm-0006Nq-AS for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14393 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EVk-00051i-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EVj-00051I-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMF00J01XU7SS@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMF002CEXU7MV@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMF00GR8XU5PP@mmp1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <00ed01c38da0$2bfcafd0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <006301c38d94$b1caccc0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:59:15 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, Apologies. This mail wasn't intended for the IDR WG. Regards, Manav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Manav Bhatia" To: "Ian Campbell" ; "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > Hi Badri, > > It seems that people are now comfortable with my draft and are looking at > it for solving some of their existing problems. > > Things are beginning to finally take shape. Francious and Gargi (both from > Cisco) and myself are working on a unified draft to come out with a > combined solution. It should be out by early next year. Very few things > remain which need to be sorted out. > > Just to keep you in loop. > > Manav _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 09:38:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14439 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EWD-0006St-8e for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98DcL9R024845 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:38:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EWD-0006Se-5H for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14420; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EWA-000529-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EWA-000526-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EVt-0006QG-Rb; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EVm-0006Nq-AS for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14393 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EVk-00051i-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EVj-00051I-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMF00J01XU7SS@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMF002CEXU7MV@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMF00GR8XU5PP@mmp1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <00ed01c38da0$2bfcafd0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <006301c38d94$b1caccc0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:59:15 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, Apologies. This mail wasn't intended for the IDR WG. Regards, Manav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Manav Bhatia" To: "Ian Campbell" ; "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > Hi Badri, > > It seems that people are now comfortable with my draft and are looking at > it for solving some of their existing problems. > > Things are beginning to finally take shape. Francious and Gargi (both from > Cisco) and myself are working on a unified draft to come out with a > combined solution. It should be out by early next year. Very few things > remain which need to be sorted out. > > Just to keep you in loop. > > Manav _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 8 13:53:13 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29517; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUy-0001oo-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUx-0001ol-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IUf-0006Rd-Gd; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IUG-0006RP-N6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29489 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUE-0001nu-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:34 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUD-0001nb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:33 -0400 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (roque-bsd.juniper.net [172.17.12.183]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h98Hq2j95302; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque@juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id h98Hq2A47524; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque) Message-Id: <200310081752.h98Hq2A47524@roque-bsd.juniper.net> From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: References: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pekka Savola writes: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: >> Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is >> *NOT* a good idea? >> >> The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing >> or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the >> forwarding table those guarantees disapear. > The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as > well) _is_ in the forwarding table. - BGP shouldn't be required to understand which next-hops other protocols use. - Given that it typically doesn, and actually typically a route w/ another protocol as a different next-hop, there is no way to guarantee that you will not have routing/forwarding loops. The spec is not geared to "this particular" case. It has to be concerned w/ all possible cases. Pedro. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 13:53:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29542 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IV1-0006Vq-4w for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:23 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98HrN2Y025028 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:53:23 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IV0-0006Vb-TB for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29517; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUy-0001oo-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUx-0001ol-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IUf-0006Rd-Gd; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IUG-0006RP-N6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29489 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUE-0001nu-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:34 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUD-0001nb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:33 -0400 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (roque-bsd.juniper.net [172.17.12.183]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h98Hq2j95302; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque@juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id h98Hq2A47524; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque) Message-Id: <200310081752.h98Hq2A47524@roque-bsd.juniper.net> From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: References: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pekka Savola writes: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: >> Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is >> *NOT* a good idea? >> >> The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing >> or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the >> forwarding table those guarantees disapear. > The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as > well) _is_ in the forwarding table. - BGP shouldn't be required to understand which next-hops other protocols use. - Given that it typically doesn, and actually typically a route w/ another protocol as a different next-hop, there is no way to guarantee that you will not have routing/forwarding loops. The spec is not geared to "this particular" case. It has to be concerned w/ all possible cases. Pedro. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Thu Oct 9 12:38:27 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27466; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7doB-0000qa-00; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7doA-0000qV-00; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:34 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7dne-0007B7-2T; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7dnB-00073q-PE for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27359 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7dnA-0000oz-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:32 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7dn8-0000oa-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h99GanA12212; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:49 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Pedro Roque Marques cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: <200310081752.h98Hq2A47524@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:49 +0300 (EEST) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > Pekka Savola writes: > > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > >> Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is > >> *NOT* a good idea? > >> > >> The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing > >> or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the > >> forwarding table those guarantees disapear. > > > The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as > > well) _is_ in the forwarding table. > > - BGP shouldn't be required to understand which next-hops other > protocols use. Who said it would have to? All it has to do it to look at the forwarding table, which it must be able to do anyway. > - Given that it typically doesn, and actually typically a route w/ > another protocol as a different next-hop, there is no way to guarantee > that you will not have routing/forwarding loops. I think the practice has shown this does not occur. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 9 12:38:59 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27506 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7doD-0007Fn-ND for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h99GcbMq027879 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:38:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7doD-0007Fa-IZ for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27466; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7doB-0000qa-00; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7doA-0000qV-00; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:34 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7dne-0007B7-2T; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7dnB-00073q-PE for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27359 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7dnA-0000oz-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:32 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7dn8-0000oa-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h99GanA12212; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:49 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Pedro Roque Marques cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: <200310081752.h98Hq2A47524@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:49 +0300 (EEST) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > Pekka Savola writes: > > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > >> Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is > >> *NOT* a good idea? > >> > >> The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing > >> or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the > >> forwarding table those guarantees disapear. > > > The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as > > well) _is_ in the forwarding table. > > - BGP shouldn't be required to understand which next-hops other > protocols use. Who said it would have to? All it has to do it to look at the forwarding table, which it must be able to do anyway. > - Given that it typically doesn, and actually typically a route w/ > another protocol as a different next-hop, there is no way to guarantee > that you will not have routing/forwarding loops. I think the practice has shown this does not occur. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 10 06:49:40 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA18669; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7uqA-0006u0-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:49:46 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7uq9-0006tx-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:49:45 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7upR-0008Ol-O0; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uom-0008OD-Rp for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:48:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA18612 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7uoi-0006r6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:48:16 -0400 Received: from 82-166-68-72.barak.net.il ([82.166.68.72] helo=82.166.68.72) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7uoh-0006qk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:48:15 -0400 From: 239835@hotmail.com X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 Reply-To: 239835@earthlink.net Organization: 1198470276 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Idr] Internet Whole$ale Pharmacy!9  239835 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:09:11 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wholesale Prescription Medications!

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_______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 10 06:59:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA19177; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uz9-0000Vt-7w; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uyn-0000Ta-5s for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:58:41 -0400 Received: from ABordeaux-103-1-20-220.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr (ABordeaux-103-1-20-220.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.50.41.220]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id GAA19064; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [1.48.178.37] by ABordeaux-103-1-20-220.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr SMTP id D6Hk9QYxnjuTXR; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:53:39 +0200 Message-ID: <7284tgc573d-3f7vjngs@3vi6x.oy3bs2> From: "Odessa Hadley" <96bxhmc@msn.com> Reply-To: "Odessa Hadley" <96bxhmc@msn.com> To: l3vpn@ietf.org Cc: , , , , , , X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00_4CF___.5.B..43." X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [Idr] Eat Until You're Thin! 2 Months Free! wwtam Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 03 13:53:39 GMT --00_4CF___.5.B..43. Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

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jcpfmearnwyrnigdeyt u i dv vyxns --00_4CF___.5.B..43.-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 07:00:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19226 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uzo-0000ee-ED for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:44 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9AAxih4002517 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:44 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uzo-0000eW-8g for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:44 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA19177; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uz9-0000Vt-7w; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:59:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7uyn-0000Ta-5s for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:58:41 -0400 Received: from ABordeaux-103-1-20-220.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr (ABordeaux-103-1-20-220.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.50.41.220]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id GAA19064; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [1.48.178.37] by ABordeaux-103-1-20-220.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr SMTP id D6Hk9QYxnjuTXR; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:53:39 +0200 Message-ID: <7284tgc573d-3f7vjngs@3vi6x.oy3bs2> From: "Odessa Hadley" <96bxhmc@msn.com> Reply-To: "Odessa Hadley" <96bxhmc@msn.com> To: l3vpn@ietf.org Cc: , , , , , , X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00_4CF___.5.B..43." X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [Idr] Eat Until You're Thin! 2 Months Free! wwtam Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 03 13:53:39 GMT --00_4CF___.5.B..43. Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

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jcpfmearnwyrnigdeyt u i dv vyxns --00_4CF___.5.B..43.-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 10 10:47:41 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01441; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yYW-0004Qz-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:48 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yYW-0004Qw-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:48 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yXl-0007xb-Ig; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yWv-0007nS-PZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01275 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:00 -0400 (EDT) From: felix_citrajaya@hotmail.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yWt-0004NZ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:07 -0400 Received: from cm124.gamma53.maxonline.com.sg ([202.156.53.124] helo=PONDAL) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yWr-0004NA-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:06 -0400 To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 (produced by Synapse) x-mailer: Synapse - Delphi & Kylix TCP/IP library by Lukas Gebauer Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Message text Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] Info Membangun ASSET Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:40:41 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Yth Bapak=2FIbu=2FSdr=2Fi Salam Sejahtera=2C Perkenalkan nama saya Felix=2C ingin mengajak anda untuk bekerja sama dalam bisnis yang sedang saya tekuni saat ini=2E Saya mengetahui email address anda dari salah satu web di internet dan= saya berpikir bahwa anda menyenangi komunikasi lewat internet=2E Oleh= karenannya=2C saya ingin membagi kesempatan ini kepada sesama rekan=2C kesempatan untuk melakukan kerjasama usaha melalui internet=2E Info bonus =3A http=3A=2F=2Fvisibaru=2Ewnetwork=2Ebiz=2Fshow=2Ecgi=2Ffcitrajaya=2Frespons= =2Fbonus=2Ehtml Mungkin tawaran ini tidak sesuai bidangnya dengan apa yang anda harapkan= =2C namun tidak ada salahnya bila anda mengetahui informasi mengenai bidang pekerjaan lain yang bisa memberikan penghasilan bagi anda dan keluarga= anda=2E Bisnis yang saya tawarkan ini bahkan bisa anda lakukan walaupun saat ini= anda sedang bekerja=2E Anda tidak perlu meninggalkan pekerjaan anda saat ini=2E Untuk INFO dan PENDAFTARAN free member anda bisa buka website berikut =3A http=3A=2F=2Fvisibaru=2Ewnetwork=2Ebiz=2Fshow=2Ecgi=2Ffcitrajaya Terimakasih atas perhatiannya=2C mohon maaf jika saya mengganggu waktu= anda=2E Salam Sukses=2C Felix Citrajaya Associate Distributor _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 10:48:12 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01499 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yYZ-00088u-N2 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:51 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9AElp3Q031294 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:51 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yYZ-00088b-IU for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01441; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yYW-0004Qz-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:48 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yYW-0004Qw-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:48 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yXl-0007xb-Ig; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yWv-0007nS-PZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01275 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:00 -0400 (EDT) From: felix_citrajaya@hotmail.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yWt-0004NZ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:07 -0400 Received: from cm124.gamma53.maxonline.com.sg ([202.156.53.124] helo=PONDAL) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yWr-0004NA-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:06 -0400 To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 (produced by Synapse) x-mailer: Synapse - Delphi & Kylix TCP/IP library by Lukas Gebauer Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Message text Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] Info Membangun ASSET Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:40:41 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Yth Bapak=2FIbu=2FSdr=2Fi Salam Sejahtera=2C Perkenalkan nama saya Felix=2C ingin mengajak anda untuk bekerja sama dalam bisnis yang sedang saya tekuni saat ini=2E Saya mengetahui email address anda dari salah satu web di internet dan= saya berpikir bahwa anda menyenangi komunikasi lewat internet=2E Oleh= karenannya=2C saya ingin membagi kesempatan ini kepada sesama rekan=2C kesempatan untuk melakukan kerjasama usaha melalui internet=2E Info bonus =3A http=3A=2F=2Fvisibaru=2Ewnetwork=2Ebiz=2Fshow=2Ecgi=2Ffcitrajaya=2Frespons= =2Fbonus=2Ehtml Mungkin tawaran ini tidak sesuai bidangnya dengan apa yang anda harapkan= =2C namun tidak ada salahnya bila anda mengetahui informasi mengenai bidang pekerjaan lain yang bisa memberikan penghasilan bagi anda dan keluarga= anda=2E Bisnis yang saya tawarkan ini bahkan bisa anda lakukan walaupun saat ini= anda sedang bekerja=2E Anda tidak perlu meninggalkan pekerjaan anda saat ini=2E Untuk INFO dan PENDAFTARAN free member anda bisa buka website berikut =3A http=3A=2F=2Fvisibaru=2Ewnetwork=2Ebiz=2Fshow=2Ecgi=2Ffcitrajaya Terimakasih atas perhatiannya=2C mohon maaf jika saya mengganggu waktu= anda=2E Salam Sukses=2C Felix Citrajaya Associate Distributor _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 10 15:41:31 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16088; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A838s-0000aW-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:38 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A838r-0000aR-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A837L-0005kh-MD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:40:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A836a-0005an-KK for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:16 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15807; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310101939.PAA15807@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:07 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions of Managed Objects for the Fourth Version of Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4) Author(s) : J. Haas, S. Hares Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2003-10-10 This memo is an extension to the SNMP MIB. It obsoletes RFC 1657 and RFC 1269. The origin of this memo is from RFC 1269 'Definitions of Managed Objects for the Border Gateway Protocol (Version 3)', which was updated to support BGP-4 in RFC 1657. This memo fixes errors introduced when the MIB was converted to use the SNMPv2 SMI, as well as updates references to the current SNMP framework documents. This memo is intended to document deployed implementations of this MIB in a historical context, provide clarifications of some items and also note errors where the MIB fails to fully represent the BGP protocol. Work is currently in progress to replace this MIB with a new one representing the current state of the BGP protocol and its extensions. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Please forward comments to idr@ietf.org. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143257.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143257.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 15:42:02 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16126 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A838u-0006Rd-Ay for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:40 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9AJfeuv024767 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A838u-0006RO-78 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16088; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A838s-0000aW-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:38 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A838r-0000aR-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A837L-0005kh-MD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:40:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A836a-0005an-KK for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:16 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15807; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310101939.PAA15807@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:07 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions of Managed Objects for the Fourth Version of Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4) Author(s) : J. Haas, S. Hares Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2003-10-10 This memo is an extension to the SNMP MIB. It obsoletes RFC 1657 and RFC 1269. The origin of this memo is from RFC 1269 'Definitions of Managed Objects for the Border Gateway Protocol (Version 3)', which was updated to support BGP-4 in RFC 1657. This memo fixes errors introduced when the MIB was converted to use the SNMPv2 SMI, as well as updates references to the current SNMP framework documents. This memo is intended to document deployed implementations of this MIB in a historical context, provide clarifications of some items and also note errors where the MIB fails to fully represent the BGP protocol. Work is currently in progress to replace this MIB with a new one representing the current state of the BGP protocol and its extensions. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Please forward comments to idr@ietf.org. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143257.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143257.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sat Oct 11 22:10:16 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20468; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8Vge-00027z-00; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8Vgd-00027u-00; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8VgI-0007jj-HD; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8VfK-0007hz-PW for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:09:02 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.250.95.55]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA20410 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310120208.WAA20410@ietf.org> Reply-To: "interco" From: "interco" To: "" Organization: Inter Co inc Programming X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Security warning! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:10:57 +0900 Warning! The scamers, have invented a new way of larceny money from yours e-gold account. It is already, has suffered, hundreds users e-gold and other electronic systems. Our experts, have developed reliable protection, against breakings. To receive a paid advice on protection to you it is necessary to pay 0.30$ (e-gold) and enter your e-mail after payment. The instruction on safety will be sent to you mail. Protect yourself from hackers! http://61.250.95.55 For reception of more detailed information visit this dynamically allocated ip address specially for you. Best regards, General programmer of Inter co Inc, Mike. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 11 22:10:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20498 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8Vgh-0007my-UE for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:27 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9C2ARnl029934 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8Vgh-0007mj-Pv for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20468; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8Vge-00027z-00; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8Vgd-00027u-00; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8VgI-0007jj-HD; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8VfK-0007hz-PW for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:09:02 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.250.95.55]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA20410 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310120208.WAA20410@ietf.org> Reply-To: "interco" From: "interco" To: "" Organization: Inter Co inc Programming X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Security warning! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:10:57 +0900 Warning! The scamers, have invented a new way of larceny money from yours e-gold account. It is already, has suffered, hundreds users e-gold and other electronic systems. Our experts, have developed reliable protection, against breakings. To receive a paid advice on protection to you it is necessary to pay 0.30$ (e-gold) and enter your e-mail after payment. The instruction on safety will be sent to you mail. Protect yourself from hackers! http://61.250.95.55 For reception of more detailed information visit this dynamically allocated ip address specially for you. Best regards, General programmer of Inter co Inc, Mike. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sun Oct 12 16:38:16 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28243; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8myu-0002mU-00; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:38:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8myu-0002mR-00; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:38:24 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8myX-000374-II; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:38:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8mxj-0002sn-TG for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28163 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8mxh-0002kg-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:09 -0400 Received: from [218.84.161.18] (helo=201A) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8mxe-0002kO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:06 -0400 From: "marvin" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] .. think about your families Health Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 4:26:29 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCg0KPGJvZHk+DQo8cD48Zm9udCBzaXplPSIyIiBmYWNl PSJBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj5Eb24ndCBnYW1ibGUgd2l0aCB5b3VyIGxp ZmUgaW5zdXJhbmNlITxicj48YnI+U2F2ZSBlbm9ybW91cyBhbW91bnRzIG9mIG1vbmV5IGJ5IG9y Z2FuaXNpbmcgeW91ciBIZWFsdGggSW5zdXJhbmNlIHF1b3RlIG9ubGluZSE8YnI+PGJyPkJlc3Qg UmF0ZXMsIFBlcnNvbmFsIFNlcnZpY2UsIEltbWVkaWF0ZSBSZXNwb25zZXMuPGJyPjxicj4NCjxm b250IHNpemU9IjEiPn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fjxicj4NCklmIHlvdSBkbyBub3Qgd2lzaCB0byByZWNlaXZlIHRoZXNlIG9mZmVycyBpbiB0 aGUgZnV0dXJlLDxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cxOTkuZ2lhbnR3ZWJzb2Z0d2FyZS5j b20vaGluc3VyYW5jZS9hZC90ZXh0Ml9yZW1vdmUiPkNsaWNrIEhlcmU8L2E+IHRvIHJlbW92ZSB5 b3Vyc2VsZiBub3c8YnI+DQp+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn5+fn48L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0KPC9mb250PjwvcD4NCjxwPiZuYnNwOzwvcD4NCjwvYm9keT4N CjwvaHRtbD4NCg== _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 12 16:38:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28273 for ; 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Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:38:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8mxj-0002sn-TG for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28163 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8mxh-0002kg-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:09 -0400 Received: from [218.84.161.18] (helo=201A) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8mxe-0002kO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:06 -0400 From: "marvin" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] .. think about your families Health Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 4:26:29 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCg0KPGJvZHk+DQo8cD48Zm9udCBzaXplPSIyIiBmYWNl PSJBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj5Eb24ndCBnYW1ibGUgd2l0aCB5b3VyIGxp ZmUgaW5zdXJhbmNlITxicj48YnI+U2F2ZSBlbm9ybW91cyBhbW91bnRzIG9mIG1vbmV5IGJ5IG9y Z2FuaXNpbmcgeW91ciBIZWFsdGggSW5zdXJhbmNlIHF1b3RlIG9ubGluZSE8YnI+PGJyPkJlc3Qg UmF0ZXMsIFBlcnNvbmFsIFNlcnZpY2UsIEltbWVkaWF0ZSBSZXNwb25zZXMuPGJyPjxicj4NCjxm b250IHNpemU9IjEiPn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fjxicj4NCklmIHlvdSBkbyBub3Qgd2lzaCB0byByZWNlaXZlIHRoZXNlIG9mZmVycyBpbiB0 aGUgZnV0dXJlLDxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cxOTkuZ2lhbnR3ZWJzb2Z0d2FyZS5j b20vaGluc3VyYW5jZS9hZC90ZXh0Ml9yZW1vdmUiPkNsaWNrIEhlcmU8L2E+IHRvIHJlbW92ZSB5 b3Vyc2VsZiBub3c8YnI+DQp+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn5+fn48L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0KPC9mb250PjwvcD4NCjxwPiZuYnNwOzwvcD4NCjwvYm9keT4N CjwvaHRtbD4NCg== _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 13 10:00:27 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05362; 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Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:58:28 -0400 From: "busa@erols.com" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] heya Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:03:48 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAzMzMzIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjwzNHk0OGZ5cz4NCjx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD01MDBweD4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJu YXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9Inll bGxvdyI+MTAwJSBHdWFyYW50ZWVkIFJlc3VsdHMgT3IgWW91ciBNb25leSBCYWNrDQo8L3RyPg0K PHRyPjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJibHVlIiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5h IiBzaXplPTQgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj4NCjxicj4NCkxpa2UgZ2lybHMgd2l0aCBiaWcgdGl0 cz8gR2lybHMgbGlrZSBiaWcgY29ja3Mgb24gZ3V5cyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSAzNHk0OGZ5cyAt LT4NCm5ldmVyIGJlIGFzaGFtZWQgaW4gdGhlIG1lbnMgcm9vbSB1cmluYWxzIGFnYWluLi4gc2hv dyB0aGVtIHdobydzIGJvc3MhPGJyPjxicj4NCk91ciBwZW5pcyBwaWxscyBtYWtlIHVwIGZvciB3 aGF0IG1vdGhlciBuYXR1cmUgZm9yZ290ISBHZXQgYSBtb250aHMgc3VwcGx5IGFuZCBub3RpY2Ug dGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UhPGJyPjxicj4NCjxBIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9ydWxlc0B3d3cuaGVyYmFs LXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUvdnAvIj48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93Ij5UYWtlIGEgbG9vayBh dCBob3cgaXQgd29ya3M8L2E+PGJyPjxicj4NCjwvdGQ+PC90cj4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9y PSJuYXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9 InllbGxvdyI+V29ybGRzIE1vc3QgRWZmZWN0aXZlIEVubGFyZ2VtZW50IFRlY2huaXF1ZQ0KPC90 cj4NCjwvdGFibGU+PHNmZDh1YT4NCjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+DQo8 Zm9udCBzaXplPSIxcHgiIGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSIjMDAwMDAiPnNmZDh1YSAzNHk0 OGZ5cyBzZmQ4dWE8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8c2ZkOHVhPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3J1bGVzQHd3dy5o ZXJiYWwtdXNhLnVzL3doaXRlbGluZS9vdXQuaHRtbCI+PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyIgc2l6 ZT0iMiI+dG8gZ2V0IG9mZjwvYT4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 10:00:58 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05405 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A93FW-0002dE-6v for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9DE0cMi010115 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A93FV-0002d4-VR for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05362; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A93FT-0002xU-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:35 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A93FS-0002xP-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:00:34 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A93Dx-0002Os-6X; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:59:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A93DS-0002Ni-I5 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:58:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05113 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A93DQ-0002sS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:58:28 -0400 Received: from ppp-62-235-108-36.tiscali.be ([62.235.108.36] helo=WIM ident=btxci) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A93DP-0002rx-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:58:28 -0400 From: "busa@erols.com" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] heya Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:03:48 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAzMzMzIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjwzNHk0OGZ5cz4NCjx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD01MDBweD4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJu YXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9Inll bGxvdyI+MTAwJSBHdWFyYW50ZWVkIFJlc3VsdHMgT3IgWW91ciBNb25leSBCYWNrDQo8L3RyPg0K PHRyPjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJibHVlIiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5h IiBzaXplPTQgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj4NCjxicj4NCkxpa2UgZ2lybHMgd2l0aCBiaWcgdGl0 cz8gR2lybHMgbGlrZSBiaWcgY29ja3Mgb24gZ3V5cyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSAzNHk0OGZ5cyAt LT4NCm5ldmVyIGJlIGFzaGFtZWQgaW4gdGhlIG1lbnMgcm9vbSB1cmluYWxzIGFnYWluLi4gc2hv dyB0aGVtIHdobydzIGJvc3MhPGJyPjxicj4NCk91ciBwZW5pcyBwaWxscyBtYWtlIHVwIGZvciB3 aGF0IG1vdGhlciBuYXR1cmUgZm9yZ290ISBHZXQgYSBtb250aHMgc3VwcGx5IGFuZCBub3RpY2Ug dGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UhPGJyPjxicj4NCjxBIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9ydWxlc0B3d3cuaGVyYmFs LXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUvdnAvIj48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93Ij5UYWtlIGEgbG9vayBh dCBob3cgaXQgd29ya3M8L2E+PGJyPjxicj4NCjwvdGQ+PC90cj4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9y PSJuYXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9 InllbGxvdyI+V29ybGRzIE1vc3QgRWZmZWN0aXZlIEVubGFyZ2VtZW50IFRlY2huaXF1ZQ0KPC90 cj4NCjwvdGFibGU+PHNmZDh1YT4NCjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+DQo8 Zm9udCBzaXplPSIxcHgiIGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSIjMDAwMDAiPnNmZDh1YSAzNHk0 OGZ5cyBzZmQ4dWE8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8c2ZkOHVhPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3J1bGVzQHd3dy5o ZXJiYWwtdXNhLnVzL3doaXRlbGluZS9vdXQuaHRtbCI+PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyIgc2l6 ZT0iMiI+dG8gZ2V0IG9mZjwvYT4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 13 11:39:47 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11753; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94nb-0004So-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94nb-0004Sl-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:55 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A94mj-0007m6-28; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A94lz-0007kR-HQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11634 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94ly-0004QL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:14 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94lx-0004Q0-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:13 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9DFbhj96471 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310131537.h9DFbhj96471@merlot.juniper.net> To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <61731.1066059463.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] I-D deadlines Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:37:43 -0700 Folks, 10 days until new I-D deadline; 17 until revised I-D deadline So, if you are planning to have drafts ready for Minneapolis it's time to wrap them up and get them published. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 11:40:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11796 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A94nd-0007xF-Fb for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:58 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9DFdvpC030571 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A94nd-0007x0-Bx for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11753; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94nb-0004So-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:55 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94nb-0004Sl-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:55 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A94mj-0007m6-28; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:39:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A94lz-0007kR-HQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11634 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94ly-0004QL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:14 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A94lx-0004Q0-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:38:13 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9DFbhj96471 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310131537.h9DFbhj96471@merlot.juniper.net> To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <61731.1066059463.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] I-D deadlines Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:37:43 -0700 Folks, 10 days until new I-D deadline; 17 until revised I-D deadline So, if you are planning to have drafts ready for Minneapolis it's time to wrap them up and get them published. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 13 13:48:03 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17033; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96nh-00061B-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96nh-000618-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96mb-0006Ro-EY; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96m1-0006R2-Cv for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:46:25 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.250.95.55]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA16970 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310131746.NAA16970@ietf.org> Reply-To: "interco" From: "interco" To: "" Organization: Inter Co inc Programming X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Security Warning! 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Protect yourself from hackers! http://61.250.95.55 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 13:48:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17075 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96nk-0006Zp-OE for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9DHmC99025275 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96nk-0006Za-L2 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17033; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96nh-00061B-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96nh-000618-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96mb-0006Ro-EY; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96m1-0006R2-Cv for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:46:25 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.250.95.55]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA16970 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310131746.NAA16970@ietf.org> Reply-To: "interco" From: "interco" To: "" Organization: Inter Co inc Programming X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Security Warning! 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_______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 15 02:48:16 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA17028; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9fSG-0007lf-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:48:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9fSG-0007lc-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:48:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9fRy-00058P-DI; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:48:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9fRJ-00054V-AR for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16837 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9fRF-0007j0-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:17 -0400 Received: from modemcable124.209-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.202.209.124] helo=24.202.209.124) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9fRB-0007im-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:14 -0400 From: 239929@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Reply-To: 239929@msn.com Organization: 2094956799 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Idr] Spam Remedy kills all spam automatically! 239929 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:13:39 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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239929 70517393-9B4A10E-14F60BD2-122F547F-137A5DC7 1783820100 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 15 08:36:26 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27224; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ktE-0003sj-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ktE-0003sg-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ksk-0002iE-Os; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9krn-0002fB-CO for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:35:03 -0400 Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m51-mp1.cvx1-a.edi.dial.ntli.net [62.253.4.51]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA27161 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310151234.IAA27161@ietf.org> From: "Selling for Engineers" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 1015031336" Reply-To: "Selling for Engineers" Subject: [Idr] You are too expensive, can I have a discount? Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:36:50 +0100 This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA27166 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What if the customer says: =B7 =B7 =91It=92s too expensive=92 =B7 =B7 =91We=92re happy with our present supplier=92 =B7 =B7 =91I want to think about it=92 =20 Can you handle these common objections? By far the most efficient way to be more profitable is to turn more of th= e enquiries you receive into paid orders. For this, the ability to resol= ve objections is critical - either you close or you lose the sale. And if you answer =91How much discount will you give me?=92 with: =91I=92= ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be yours with a better r= eply. =20 Closing Techniques Workshop One day workshop =20 In only a day I will teach you techniques which overcome these objections= and more. You will be able to use them immediately to win profitable ord= ers. =20 There is no need to lose business to your competitors or give big discoun= ts.=20 =20 Fee for this event is =A3300.=20 =20 Selling for Engineers One-day Seminar =20 The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good introduction to effective sal= es principles for people who are new to selling, and also a useful refres= her for =91old hands=92. It applies to selling both technical products a= nd intangible services. =20 Many Sales Engineers have been learning the technical skills of their job= for years but have had little formal training in selling. This course h= elps correct that imbalance. =20 Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engineer, Account Executive and Bu= siness Development Manager. =20 Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 Telephone Sales Prospecting for Engineers One-day Workshop This event is a practical workshop teaching people in technical companies= how to find new customers on the phone. It is applicable to business de= velopment for both tangible products and intangible services. The first = session addresses whom to target, what to say and how to handle problems.= The remainder of the day consists of live sales calls with coaching fro= m Robert Seviour; the objective being to give delegates some positive exp= eriences of prospecting, make sales appointments and maybe sell something= ! =20 Please note that this telephone sales prospecting event is restricted to = a maximum of six delegates to permit individual coaching. Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If you have never had any formal sales training or need a refresher, don=92= t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20 =20 =20 Reservations and information Please contact Sue on:=20 =20 Tel: +44(0)1481 720 294 Fax: +44(0)1481 720 317 =20 If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this e= mail with the word =93DELETE=94 in the subject line. We will remove y= our details promptly. --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA27166 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 08:36:58 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27265 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ktH-0002n1-Fx for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:35 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FCaZm9010719 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ktH-0002mo-C1 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27224; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ktE-0003sj-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ktE-0003sg-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ksk-0002iE-Os; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9krn-0002fB-CO for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:35:03 -0400 Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m51-mp1.cvx1-a.edi.dial.ntli.net [62.253.4.51]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA27161 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310151234.IAA27161@ietf.org> From: "Selling for Engineers" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 1015031336" Reply-To: "Selling for Engineers" Subject: [Idr] You are too expensive, can I have a discount? Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:36:50 +0100 This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA27166 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What if the customer says: =B7 =B7 =91It=92s too expensive=92 =B7 =B7 =91We=92re happy with our present supplier=92 =B7 =B7 =91I want to think about it=92 =20 Can you handle these common objections? By far the most efficient way to be more profitable is to turn more of th= e enquiries you receive into paid orders. For this, the ability to resol= ve objections is critical - either you close or you lose the sale. And if you answer =91How much discount will you give me?=92 with: =91I=92= ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be yours with a better r= eply. =20 Closing Techniques Workshop One day workshop =20 In only a day I will teach you techniques which overcome these objections= and more. You will be able to use them immediately to win profitable ord= ers. =20 There is no need to lose business to your competitors or give big discoun= ts.=20 =20 Fee for this event is =A3300.=20 =20 Selling for Engineers One-day Seminar =20 The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good introduction to effective sal= es principles for people who are new to selling, and also a useful refres= her for =91old hands=92. It applies to selling both technical products a= nd intangible services. =20 Many Sales Engineers have been learning the technical skills of their job= for years but have had little formal training in selling. This course h= elps correct that imbalance. =20 Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engineer, Account Executive and Bu= siness Development Manager. =20 Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 Telephone Sales Prospecting for Engineers One-day Workshop This event is a practical workshop teaching people in technical companies= how to find new customers on the phone. It is applicable to business de= velopment for both tangible products and intangible services. The first = session addresses whom to target, what to say and how to handle problems.= The remainder of the day consists of live sales calls with coaching fro= m Robert Seviour; the objective being to give delegates some positive exp= eriences of prospecting, make sales appointments and maybe sell something= ! =20 Please note that this telephone sales prospecting event is restricted to = a maximum of six delegates to permit individual coaching. Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If you have never had any formal sales training or need a refresher, don=92= t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20 =20 =20 Reservations and information Please contact Sue on:=20 =20 Tel: +44(0)1481 720 294 Fax: +44(0)1481 720 317 =20 If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this e= mail with the word =93DELETE=94 in the subject line. We will remove y= our details promptly. --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA27166 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What if=20 the customer says:

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= It=92s too=20 expensive=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= We=92re happy=20 with our present supplier=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= I want to=20 think about it=92

 

Can you handle these common=20 objections?

By far the most efficient way to be more pro= fitable=20 is to turn more of the enquiries you receive into paid orders.  For this, the ability to resolv= e=20 objections is critical - either you close or you lose the=20 sale.

And if you answer =91How much discount will = you give=20 me?=92 with: =91I=92ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be y= ours with a=20 better reply.

 

 One=20 day workshop

 

In only a day I will teach you techniques wh= ich=20 overcome these objections and more. You will be able to use them immediat= ely to=20 win profitable orders.

 

There is no need to lose business to your co= mpetitors=20 or give big discounts.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.=20

 

Sel= ling for=20 Engineers

One-day=20 Seminar

 

The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good=20 introduction to effective sales principles for people who are new to sell= ing,=20 and also a useful refresher for =91old hands=92.  It applies to selling both tech= nical=20 products and intangible services.

 

Many Sales Engineers have been learning the = technical=20 skills of their job for years but have had little formal training in=20 selling.  This course helps= correct=20 that imbalance. =20

Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engin= eer,=20 Account Executive and Business Development Manager.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

Tel= ephone=20 Sales Prospecting for Engineers

One-day=20 Workshop

This event is a practical workshop teaching = people in=20 technical companies how to find new customers on the phone.  It is applicable to business de= velopment=20 for both tangible products and intangible services.  The first session addresses who= m to=20 target, what to say and how to handle problems.  The remainder of the day consis= ts of=20 live sales calls with coaching from Robert Seviour; the objective being t= o give=20 delegates some positive experiences of prospecting, make sales appointmen= ts and=20 maybe sell something!

 

Please note that this telephone sales prospe= cting=20 event is restricted to a maximum of six delegates to permit individual=20 coaching.

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

 

 

&nb= sp;

If you have never had any formal sales train= ing or=20 need a refresher, don=92t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20

 

 

Reservations and=20 information

Please contact Sue on:

 

Tel:  +44(0)1481 720 294     Fax: +44(0)1481 720=20 317

 

If sales trainin= g is not an=20 issue for your company please reply to this email with the word =93DELETE= =94 in the=20 subject line.     <= /SPAN>We=20 will remove your details promptly.

 

--= Multipart Boundary 1015031336-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 15 12:27:24 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07793; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oUl-0006zr-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oUl-0006zo-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:31 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oUH-0001y1-Rq; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oTa-0001uC-JW for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07707 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oTY-0006yW-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:16 -0400 Received: from mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net ([63.231.195.112]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oTX-0006yS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 81843 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (63.231.195.5) by mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net with QMQP; 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool151-44.nas8.minneapolis1.mn.us.da.qwest.net (HELO charita) (67.4.151.44) by mpls-pop-05.inet.qwest.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c39338$47057ee0$cbc8c8c8@sdksoft.com> From: "Parag Deshpande" To: idr@ietf.org References: <200310131537.h9DFbhj96471@merlot.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Idr] cooperative route filtering capability - expiration date Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:20:41 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Expiration Date on the draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-09.txt shows Feb 2003. (submitted Aug 03) I guess it should be Feb 04. Thanks Parag _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 12:27:57 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07852 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oUp-00022P-VD for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FGRZxh007827 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oUp-000227-Rr for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07793; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oUl-0006zr-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:31 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oUl-0006zo-00; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:31 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oUH-0001y1-Rq; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oTa-0001uC-JW for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07707 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oTY-0006yW-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:16 -0400 Received: from mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net ([63.231.195.112]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oTX-0006yS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 81843 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (63.231.195.5) by mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net with QMQP; 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool151-44.nas8.minneapolis1.mn.us.da.qwest.net (HELO charita) (67.4.151.44) by mpls-pop-05.inet.qwest.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c39338$47057ee0$cbc8c8c8@sdksoft.com> From: "Parag Deshpande" To: idr@ietf.org References: <200310131537.h9DFbhj96471@merlot.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Idr] cooperative route filtering capability - expiration date Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:20:41 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Expiration Date on the draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-09.txt shows Feb 2003. (submitted Aug 03) I guess it should be Feb 04. Thanks Parag _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Thu Oct 16 10:50:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06025; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9T0-0005dc-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9T0-0005dV-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Rx-0006Lr-VJ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9RK-0006KS-0g for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05951 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9RH-0005cJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:19 -0400 Received: from [219.145.255.44] (helo=SY-PK62DN31N64N) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9RF-0005c4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:18 -0400 From: "bhudson@erols.com" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] join the many Americans enlarging their penises! 4u3243280432 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:48:03 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMDY2Ij4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjxkeWF1a2ZzPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4Pg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9Im5h dnkiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0ieWVs bG93Ij4xMDAlIEd1YXJhbnRlZWQgUmVzdWx0cyBPciBZb3VyIE1vbmV5IEJhY2sNCjwvdHI+DQo8 dHI+PHRkIGJnY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEi IHNpemU9NCBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPg0KPGJyPg0KSG93IGRpZCB5b3UgY29tcGFyZSB0byB0 aGUgb3RoZXIgZ3V5cyBpbiB0aGUgbG9ja2VyIHJvb20/IGlzIGhlIGxvb2tpbmcgYSBiaXQgc21h bGwgYXQgdGhlIG1vbWVudD88YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSBkeWF1a2ZzIC0tPg0KbmV2ZXIgYmUgYXNo YW1lZCBpbiB0aGUgbWVucyByb29tIHVyaW5hbHMgYWdhaW4uLiBzaG93IHRoZW0gd2hvJ3MgYm9z cyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KVGhlIERpZmZlcmVuY2UgaXMgd29ydGggd3JpdGluZyBob21lIGFib3V0ISBP dXIgcGVuaXMgcGlsbHMgaGF2ZSBhIHN0cm9uZyByZXB1dGF0aW9uITxicj48YnI+DQo8QSBocmVm PSJodHRwOi8vbWFyYUB3d3cuaGVyYmFsLXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUvdnAvIj48Zm9udCBjb2xv cj0ieWVsbG93Ij5UYWtlIGEgbG9vayBhdCBob3cgaXQgd29ya3M8L2E+PGJyPjxicj4NCjwvdGQ+ PC90cj4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJuYXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNl PSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyI+V29ybGRzIE1vc3QgRWZmZWN0aXZlIEVu bGFyZ2VtZW50IFRlY2huaXF1ZQ0KPC90cj4NCjwvdGFibGU+PGR5YXVrZnM+DQo8YnI+PGJyPjxi cj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMXB4IiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBj b2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwIj5keWF1a2ZzIGR5YXVrZnMgZHlhdWtmczwvZm9udD4NCjxkeWF1a2ZzPg0K PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL291dC5odG1s Ij48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93IiBzaXplPSIyIj50byBnZXQgb2ZmPC9hPg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0K PC9odG1sPg0K _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 10:51:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06052 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9T4-0006Rv-13 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GEp9fu024787 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9T3-0006Ri-Sv for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06025; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9T0-0005dc-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9T0-0005dV-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:51:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Rx-0006Lr-VJ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9RK-0006KS-0g for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05951 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9RH-0005cJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:19 -0400 Received: from [219.145.255.44] (helo=SY-PK62DN31N64N) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9RF-0005c4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:18 -0400 From: "bhudson@erols.com" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] join the many Americans enlarging their penises! 4u3243280432 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:48:03 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMDY2Ij4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjxkeWF1a2ZzPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4Pg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9Im5h dnkiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0ieWVs bG93Ij4xMDAlIEd1YXJhbnRlZWQgUmVzdWx0cyBPciBZb3VyIE1vbmV5IEJhY2sNCjwvdHI+DQo8 dHI+PHRkIGJnY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEi IHNpemU9NCBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPg0KPGJyPg0KSG93IGRpZCB5b3UgY29tcGFyZSB0byB0 aGUgb3RoZXIgZ3V5cyBpbiB0aGUgbG9ja2VyIHJvb20/IGlzIGhlIGxvb2tpbmcgYSBiaXQgc21h bGwgYXQgdGhlIG1vbWVudD88YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSBkeWF1a2ZzIC0tPg0KbmV2ZXIgYmUgYXNo YW1lZCBpbiB0aGUgbWVucyByb29tIHVyaW5hbHMgYWdhaW4uLiBzaG93IHRoZW0gd2hvJ3MgYm9z cyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KVGhlIERpZmZlcmVuY2UgaXMgd29ydGggd3JpdGluZyBob21lIGFib3V0ISBP dXIgcGVuaXMgcGlsbHMgaGF2ZSBhIHN0cm9uZyByZXB1dGF0aW9uITxicj48YnI+DQo8QSBocmVm PSJodHRwOi8vbWFyYUB3d3cuaGVyYmFsLXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUvdnAvIj48Zm9udCBjb2xv cj0ieWVsbG93Ij5UYWtlIGEgbG9vayBhdCBob3cgaXQgd29ya3M8L2E+PGJyPjxicj4NCjwvdGQ+ PC90cj4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJuYXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNl PSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyI+V29ybGRzIE1vc3QgRWZmZWN0aXZlIEVu bGFyZ2VtZW50IFRlY2huaXF1ZQ0KPC90cj4NCjwvdGFibGU+PGR5YXVrZnM+DQo8YnI+PGJyPjxi cj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMXB4IiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBj b2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwIj5keWF1a2ZzIGR5YXVrZnMgZHlhdWtmczwvZm9udD4NCjxkeWF1a2ZzPg0K PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL291dC5odG1s Ij48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93IiBzaXplPSIyIj50byBnZXQgb2ZmPC9hPg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0K PC9odG1sPg0K _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Thu Oct 16 11:32:04 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07150; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA6n-0005yc-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA6n-0005yZ-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA6b-0008OO-18; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA63-0008MJ-Su for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07112 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA62-0005y5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:26 -0400 Received: from max4-mtl-dialup159.securenet.net ([205.205.79.69] helo=blackburnmail.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA5d-0005wn-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:25 -0400 From: "C Books )))))" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA07113 Subject: [Idr] Disponible / Available ; Subventions / Subsidies ))))) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ENGLISH MESSAGE INCLUDED******MESSAGE ANGLAIS INCLUS ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QUEBEC 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC 2004 D=E9pot l=E9gal-Biblioth=E8que Nationale du Qu=E9bec ISBN 2-922870-06-5 =20 COMMUNIQU=C9 DE PRESSE Livres Canada offrent au public une =E9dition r=E9vis=E9e de l'ANNUAIRE = DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC contenant plus de 1900 programmes d'aides et de subventions provenant des divers paliers gouvernementaux et organismes. Dans la nouvelle =E9dition 2004 on trouve la description des programmes ainsi que les montants allou=E9s. =20 L'ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC est l'outil id=E9al soit pour d=E9= marrer son entreprise, am=E9liorer une entreprise existante, mettre sur pied son pla= n d'affaires ou obtenir l'aide de conseillers experts dans le domaine des affaires: D=E9marrage d'entreprises, =E9tudes, recherches, arts, agriculture, impor= t export, main d'oeuvre, cin=E9ma, pr=EAts, promotion, bourses, th=E9atre, transpor= ts, communications, mise sur pied et d=E9veloppement d'entreprises, construct= ion et r=E9novation, a=E9rospatial, concours, nouveaux talents, aide aux associa= tions, organismes et fondations, informatique, musique, industrie du disque, pla= ns d'affaires, =E9tudes de march=E9s, infrastructures, aide aux travailleurs autonomes et plus encore ! =20 L'annuaire des subventions est vendu $ 49,95. Informations.....................(450) 224-9275 ENGLISH MESSAGE********MESSAGE ANGLAIS PRESS RELEASE =20 CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2003 EDITION =20 Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-05-7 =20 The new revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory 2003 is now available.=20 The new edition is the most complete and affordable reference for anyone looking for financial support. It is deemed to be the perfect tool for new or existing businesses, individual ventures, foundations and associations. =20 This Publication contains more than 2000 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organisations. In this new 2003 edition all programs are well described. =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtai= n assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture, communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more! =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is sold $ 49.95, to obtain a copy please call: Canada Books...............(450) 224-9275 CANADA BOOKS 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 11:32:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07169 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA6p-0008Ql-7v for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GFWF7t032406 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA6p-0008Qb-3z for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07150; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA6n-0005yc-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA6n-0005yZ-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA6b-0008OO-18; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA63-0008MJ-Su for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07112 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA62-0005y5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:26 -0400 Received: from max4-mtl-dialup159.securenet.net ([205.205.79.69] helo=blackburnmail.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA5d-0005wn-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:25 -0400 From: "C Books )))))" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA07113 Subject: [Idr] Disponible / Available ; Subventions / Subsidies ))))) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ENGLISH MESSAGE INCLUDED******MESSAGE ANGLAIS INCLUS ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QUEBEC 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC 2004 D=E9pot l=E9gal-Biblioth=E8que Nationale du Qu=E9bec ISBN 2-922870-06-5 =20 COMMUNIQU=C9 DE PRESSE Livres Canada offrent au public une =E9dition r=E9vis=E9e de l'ANNUAIRE = DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC contenant plus de 1900 programmes d'aides et de subventions provenant des divers paliers gouvernementaux et organismes. Dans la nouvelle =E9dition 2004 on trouve la description des programmes ainsi que les montants allou=E9s. =20 L'ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC est l'outil id=E9al soit pour d=E9= marrer son entreprise, am=E9liorer une entreprise existante, mettre sur pied son pla= n d'affaires ou obtenir l'aide de conseillers experts dans le domaine des affaires: D=E9marrage d'entreprises, =E9tudes, recherches, arts, agriculture, impor= t export, main d'oeuvre, cin=E9ma, pr=EAts, promotion, bourses, th=E9atre, transpor= ts, communications, mise sur pied et d=E9veloppement d'entreprises, construct= ion et r=E9novation, a=E9rospatial, concours, nouveaux talents, aide aux associa= tions, organismes et fondations, informatique, musique, industrie du disque, pla= ns d'affaires, =E9tudes de march=E9s, infrastructures, aide aux travailleurs autonomes et plus encore ! =20 L'annuaire des subventions est vendu $ 49,95. Informations.....................(450) 224-9275 ENGLISH MESSAGE********MESSAGE ANGLAIS PRESS RELEASE =20 CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2003 EDITION =20 Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-05-7 =20 The new revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory 2003 is now available.=20 The new edition is the most complete and affordable reference for anyone looking for financial support. It is deemed to be the perfect tool for new or existing businesses, individual ventures, foundations and associations. =20 This Publication contains more than 2000 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organisations. In this new 2003 edition all programs are well described. =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtai= n assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture, communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more! =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is sold $ 49.95, to obtain a copy please call: Canada Books...............(450) 224-9275 CANADA BOOKS 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sat Oct 18 14:52:13 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05479; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwBZ-0004db-00; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwBZ-0004dW-00; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwBF-0000Zq-Tw; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwAV-0000Ct-Lb for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:51:15 -0400 Received: from pc04 (ip503c80d0.speed.planet.nl [80.60.128.208]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05315 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:51:03 -0400 (EDT) From: lingolottery2@netscape.net Message-Id: <200310181851.OAA05315@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: lingolottery2@netscape.net X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Subject: [Idr] CONGRATULATIONS Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:51:10 +0200 Lingo International Lottery Laan van Hoornwijck 55 2289 DG Rijswijk NETHERLANDS. FROM: THE DESK OF THE VICE PRESIDENT INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT. REF NO: EGS/2551256012/02. BATCH NO:14/0017/1PD ATTENTION: RE:AWARD NOTIFICATION,FINAL NOTICE WE are pleased to inform you of the release of the results of the Omega International Lottery /INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM held on the 2ND of OCTOBER 2003. Your Email attached to ticket number 025—11464992—750 with serial number 2113—05 drew the lucky numbers 4—18—24—30—31—35 which consequently won the lottery in the 3rd category. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum payout of US$1000,000 (one million united states DOLLARS ) in cash credited to file REF NO:EGS/2551256012/02.This is from a total cash prize of US$9,368,770.00(NINE MILLION THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY EIGHT THOUSAND,SEVEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY U S DOLLARS ONLY) shared among the seventeen international winners in this category CONGRATULATIONS!!! Your fund is now deposited with a security company insured to your name. Due to mixed up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your nominated account as this is a part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unwarranted taking advantage of this program by participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from 25,000 names from Asia, Australia, New zealand, Europe and North America as part of our international promotions program which we conduct once every year. We hope that with a part of your prize , you will take part in our end of year highstake US$1.7 billion International lottery. To begin your lottery claim please contact your claims agent, MISS FANNY DAXTON Foreign operations manager lotto International Lottery on Tel: 31645818128, email lingo3@adres.nl for processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice Remember all prize money must be claimed not later than 30ST of november 2003.. After this date all funds will be returned to the MINISTERY as unclaimed. NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference and batch numbers in every correspondence with us or your agent .Furthermore, should there be any change of your address, do inform your claims agent as soon as possible . and forward all you contact details to the agent for the processment of your claim. Congratulations again from all members of our staff and thank you for being a part of our promotions program. Sincerely, VINCENTEJUAN. VICE PRESIDENT _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 14:52:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05507 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwBd-0000kI-2B for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:25 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9IIqOtC002860 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwBc-0000k3-TZ for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05479; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwBZ-0004db-00; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwBZ-0004dW-00; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwBF-0000Zq-Tw; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwAV-0000Ct-Lb for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:51:15 -0400 Received: from pc04 (ip503c80d0.speed.planet.nl [80.60.128.208]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05315 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:51:03 -0400 (EDT) From: lingolottery2@netscape.net Message-Id: <200310181851.OAA05315@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: lingolottery2@netscape.net X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Subject: [Idr] CONGRATULATIONS Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:51:10 +0200 Lingo International Lottery Laan van Hoornwijck 55 2289 DG Rijswijk NETHERLANDS. FROM: THE DESK OF THE VICE PRESIDENT INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT. REF NO: EGS/2551256012/02. BATCH NO:14/0017/1PD ATTENTION: RE:AWARD NOTIFICATION,FINAL NOTICE WE are pleased to inform you of the release of the results of the Omega International Lottery /INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM held on the 2ND of OCTOBER 2003. Your Email attached to ticket number 025—11464992—750 with serial number 2113—05 drew the lucky numbers 4—18—24—30—31—35 which consequently won the lottery in the 3rd category. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum payout of US$1000,000 (one million united states DOLLARS ) in cash credited to file REF NO:EGS/2551256012/02.This is from a total cash prize of US$9,368,770.00(NINE MILLION THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY EIGHT THOUSAND,SEVEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY U S DOLLARS ONLY) shared among the seventeen international winners in this category CONGRATULATIONS!!! Your fund is now deposited with a security company insured to your name. Due to mixed up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your nominated account as this is a part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unwarranted taking advantage of this program by participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from 25,000 names from Asia, Australia, New zealand, Europe and North America as part of our international promotions program which we conduct once every year. We hope that with a part of your prize , you will take part in our end of year highstake US$1.7 billion International lottery. To begin your lottery claim please contact your claims agent, MISS FANNY DAXTON Foreign operations manager lotto International Lottery on Tel: 31645818128, email lingo3@adres.nl for processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice Remember all prize money must be claimed not later than 30ST of november 2003.. After this date all funds will be returned to the MINISTERY as unclaimed. NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference and batch numbers in every correspondence with us or your agent .Furthermore, should there be any change of your address, do inform your claims agent as soon as possible . and forward all you contact details to the agent for the processment of your claim. Congratulations again from all members of our staff and thank you for being a part of our promotions program. Sincerely, VINCENTEJUAN. VICE PRESIDENT _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sun Oct 19 21:21:32 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25070; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABOjs-0002EX-00; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABOjs-0002ES-00; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:40 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOjG-0003aV-Qa; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOiY-0003UA-F7 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20:18 -0400 Received: from vu-uj13818k0l1e (c-24-126-233-132.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.233.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25027 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: noreply@FFA.com Message-Id: <200310200120.VAA25027@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.com X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Join Now Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:20:04 -0700 Dear Friends, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 19 21:22:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25104 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOjv-0003lB-Mr for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:44 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9K1Lh8R014447 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:43 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOjv-0003kw-Iw for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25070; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABOjs-0002EX-00; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABOjs-0002ES-00; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:40 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOjG-0003aV-Qa; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOiY-0003UA-F7 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20:18 -0400 Received: from vu-uj13818k0l1e (c-24-126-233-132.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.233.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25027 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: noreply@FFA.com Message-Id: <200310200120.VAA25027@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.com X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Join Now Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:20:04 -0700 Dear Friends, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 00:03:09 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29044; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRGH-0003YF-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRGH-0003YC-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRG1-0003zs-7u; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRFB-0003pD-UQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29038 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRF9-0003Y8-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:07 -0400 Received: from adsl-209-233-126-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net ([209.233.126.65] helo=arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRF9-0003Y3-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: Submission: draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Thread-Index: AcOWvvXM8BhfuMDWQzi14kJeLGksjA== From: "Michel Py" To: Cc: "Jeroen Massar" , "Rob Thomas" , "William Leibzon" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] Submission: draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:01:37 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable idr folk, As per Yakov's advice I just submitted draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt as an individual draft to the WG. As the RFC editor is quite busy these days processing new drafts, I also made the draft available here: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Your comments are more than welcome! Michel. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 00:03:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29061 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRGK-00046a-SZ for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:24 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9K43KsM015777 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRGK-00046O-KN for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29044; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRGH-0003YF-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRGH-0003YC-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRG1-0003zs-7u; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRFB-0003pD-UQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29038 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRF9-0003Y8-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:07 -0400 Received: from adsl-209-233-126-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net ([209.233.126.65] helo=arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRF9-0003Y3-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: Submission: draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Thread-Index: AcOWvvXM8BhfuMDWQzi14kJeLGksjA== From: "Michel Py" To: Cc: "Jeroen Massar" , "Rob Thomas" , "William Leibzon" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] Submission: draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:01:37 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable idr folk, As per Yakov's advice I just submitted draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt as an individual draft to the WG. As the RFC editor is quite busy these days processing new drafts, I also made the draft available here: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Your comments are more than welcome! Michel. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 10:58:25 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29611; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbUP-00015f-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:34 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbUP-00015c-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:33 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbTt-0008OK-1t; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbSv-0008FX-RH for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:57:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29565 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbSt-00014t-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:59 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbSs-00014g-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:58 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9KEuRj60336; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310201456.h9KEuRj60336@merlot.juniper.net> To: "Parag Deshpande" cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] cooperative route filtering capability - expiration date In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:20:41 CDT." <003501c39338$47057ee0$cbc8c8c8@sdksoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <46335.1066661787.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:56:27 -0700 Parag, > Hi, > > Expiration Date on the draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-09.txt shows Feb 2003. > (submitted Aug 03) > I guess it should be Feb 04. Correct. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 10:58:57 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29630 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbUT-000061-4Z for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:37 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KEwb5S000363 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbUS-00005m-V1 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29611; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbUP-00015f-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:34 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbUP-00015c-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:33 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbTt-0008OK-1t; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbSv-0008FX-RH for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:57:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29565 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbSt-00014t-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:59 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbSs-00014g-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:58 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9KEuRj60336; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310201456.h9KEuRj60336@merlot.juniper.net> To: "Parag Deshpande" cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] cooperative route filtering capability - expiration date In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:20:41 CDT." <003501c39338$47057ee0$cbc8c8c8@sdksoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <46335.1066661787.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:56:27 -0700 Parag, > Hi, > > Expiration Date on the draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-09.txt shows Feb 2003. > (submitted Aug 03) > I guess it should be Feb 04. Correct. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 13:12:20 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04090; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABda1-0002OE-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABda1-0002OB-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:29 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdZZ-0007Gx-Nj; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdZV-0007Fw-QS for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:11:57 -0400 Received: from nips2 (acs-24-239-233-117.zoominternet.net [24.239.233.117]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04080 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201711.NAA04080@ietf.org> From: "noreply@FFA.net" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Act Now!!! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:11:55 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 13:12:54 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04135 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABda4-0007QZ-DO for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:34 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KHCW7g028547 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABda4-0007QM-75 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04090; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABda1-0002OE-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:29 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABda1-0002OB-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:29 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdZZ-0007Gx-Nj; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdZV-0007Fw-QS for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:11:57 -0400 Received: from nips2 (acs-24-239-233-117.zoominternet.net [24.239.233.117]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04080 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201711.NAA04080@ietf.org> From: "noreply@FFA.net" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Act Now!!! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:11:55 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 13:18:53 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04369; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdgM-0002SU-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdgM-0002SR-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgL-0000Jr-7y; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgB-0000IW-N6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:51 -0400 Received: from vu-uj13818k0l1e (c-24-126-233-132.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.233.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04364 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT) From: noreply@FFA.net Message-Id: <200310201718.NAA04364@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Make Money Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:18:47 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 13:19:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04386 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgP-0000MP-5j for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KHJ5rv001379 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgP-0000MA-20 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04369; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdgM-0002SU-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdgM-0002SR-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgL-0000Jr-7y; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgB-0000IW-N6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:51 -0400 Received: from vu-uj13818k0l1e (c-24-126-233-132.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.233.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04364 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT) From: noreply@FFA.net Message-Id: <200310201718.NAA04364@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Make Money Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:18:47 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 13:26:56 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04648; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdo9-0002Xz-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdo8-0002Xw-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdo4-0001du-S8; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdnP-0001WZ-LY for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04614 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdnN-0002Wm-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:17 -0400 Received: from modemcable042.156-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.201.156.42] helo=28a8o) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdnM-0002Wj-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:17 -0400 From: "noreply@FFA.net" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: Subject: [Idr] Make Money Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:26:16 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 13:27:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04673 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdoB-0001j5-Ny for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KHR7iF006629 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdoB-0001iq-Hp for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04648; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdo9-0002Xz-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdo8-0002Xw-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdo4-0001du-S8; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:27:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdnP-0001WZ-LY for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04614 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdnN-0002Wm-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:17 -0400 Received: from modemcable042.156-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.201.156.42] helo=28a8o) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABdnM-0002Wj-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:17 -0400 From: "noreply@FFA.net" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: Subject: [Idr] Make Money Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:26:16 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 15:26:20 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16455; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfff-0004dQ-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfff-0004dN-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:27 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABffF-0003cP-Id; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABff6-0003bB-En for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:25:52 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.34.161.105]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA16235 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201925.PAA16235@ietf.org> Reply-To: ""<> From: ""<> To: "" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Mad Cruz (earn-easy) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:26:29 +0900 Hi! Visit top list of sites which will help you to earn! http://earn-easy.x-web-x.com/ I already have earned on it 500 $ and I am going to continue! Excuse for the letter. Yours (Mad Cruz). _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 15:26:51 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16638 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABffi-0003mW-6O for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:30 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KJQUvJ014530 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABffi-0003mB-1r for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16455; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfff-0004dQ-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfff-0004dN-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:27 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABffF-0003cP-Id; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABff6-0003bB-En for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:25:52 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.34.161.105]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA16235 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201925.PAA16235@ietf.org> Reply-To: ""<> From: ""<> To: "" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Mad Cruz (earn-easy) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:26:29 +0900 Hi! Visit top list of sites which will help you to earn! http://earn-easy.x-web-x.com/ I already have earned on it 500 $ and I am going to continue! Excuse for the letter. Yours (Mad Cruz). _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 15:55:21 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25489; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABg7k-00061b-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABg7k-00061Y-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:28 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg7J-0004WJ-H7; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg76-0004Ub-8J for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:54:48 -0400 Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m234-mp1.cvx2-a.bir.dial.ntli.net [62.255.48.234]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA25204 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201954.PAA25204@ietf.org> From: "Robert" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 1020032056" Reply-To: "Robert" Subject: [Idr] You are too expensive, can I have a discount? Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:56:09 +0100 This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 1020032056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25288 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Closing Techniques Workshop One day workshop What if the customer says: =B7 =B7 =91It=92s too expensive=92 =B7 =B7 =91We=92re happy with our present supplier=92 =B7 =B7 =91I want to think about it=92 =20 Can you handle these common objections? By far the most efficient way to be more profitable is to turn more of th= e enquiries you receive into paid orders. For this, the ability to resol= ve objections is critical - either you close or you lose the sale. And if you answer =91How much discount will you give me?=92 with: =91I=92= ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be yours with a better r= eply. =20 In only a day I will teach you techniques which overcome these objections= and more. You will be able to use them immediately to win profitable ord= ers. =20 There is no need to lose business to your competitors or give big discoun= ts.=20 =20 Fee for this event is =A3300.=20 =20 Selling for Engineers One-day Seminar =20 The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good introduction to effective sal= es principles for people who are new to selling, and also a useful refres= her for =91old hands=92. It applies to selling both technical products a= nd intangible services. =20 Many Sales Engineers have been learning the technical skills of their job= for years but have had little formal training in selling. This course h= elps correct that imbalance. =20 Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engineer, Account Executive and Bu= siness Development Manager. =20 Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 Telephone Sales Prospecting for Engineers One-day Workshop This event is a practical workshop teaching people in technical companies= how to find new customers on the phone. It is applicable to business de= velopment for both tangible products and intangible services. The first = session addresses whom to target, what to say and how to handle problems.= The remainder of the day consists of live sales calls with coaching fro= m Robert Seviour; the objective being to give delegates some positive exp= eriences of prospecting, make sales appointments and maybe sell something= ! =20 Please note that this telephone sales prospecting event is restricted to = a maximum of six delegates to permit individual coaching. Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If you have never had any formal sales training or need a refresher, don=92= t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20 =20 =20 Reservations and information Please contact Sue on:=20 =20 Tel: +44(0)1481 720 294 Fax: +44(0)1481 720 317 =20 If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this e= mail with the word =93DELETE=94 in the subject line. We will remove y= our details promptly. --= Multipart Boundary 1020032056 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25288 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

One=20 day workshop

What if=20 the customer says:

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= It=92s too=20 expensive=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= We=92re happy=20 with our present supplier=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= I want to=20 think about it=92

 

Can you handle these common=20 objections?

By far the most efficient way to be more pro= fitable=20 is to turn more of the enquiries you receive into paid orders.  For this, the ability to resolv= e=20 objections is critical - either you close or you lose the=20 sale.

And if you answer =91How much discount will = you give=20 me?=92 with: =91I=92ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be y= ours with a=20 better reply.

 

In only a day I will teach you techniques wh= ich=20 overcome these objections and more. You will be able to use them immediat= ely to=20 win profitable orders.

 

There is no need to lose business to your co= mpetitors=20 or give big discounts.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.=20

 

Sel= ling for=20 Engineers

One-day=20 Seminar

 

The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good=20 introduction to effective sales principles for people who are new to sell= ing,=20 and also a useful refresher for =91old hands=92.  It applies to selling both tech= nical=20 products and intangible services.

 

Many Sales Engineers have been learning the = technical=20 skills of their job for years but have had little formal training in=20 selling.  This course helps= correct=20 that imbalance. =20

Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engin= eer,=20 Account Executive and Business Development Manager.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

Tel= ephone=20 Sales Prospecting for Engineers

One-day=20 Workshop

This event is a practical workshop teaching = people in=20 technical companies how to find new customers on the phone.  It is applicable to business de= velopment=20 for both tangible products and intangible services.  The first session addresses who= m to=20 target, what to say and how to handle problems.  The remainder of the day consis= ts of=20 live sales calls with coaching from Robert Seviour; the objective being t= o give=20 delegates some positive experiences of prospecting, make sales appointmen= ts and=20 maybe sell something!

 

Please note that this telephone sales prospe= cting=20 event is restricted to a maximum of six delegates to permit individual=20 coaching.

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

 

 

&nb= sp;

If you have never had any formal sales train= ing or=20 need a refresher, don=92t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20

 

 

Reservations and=20 information

Please contact Sue on:

 

Tel:  +44(0)1481 720 294     Fax: +44(0)1481 720=20 317

 

If sales trainin= g is not an=20 issue for your company please reply to this email with the word =93DELETE= =94 in the=20 subject line.     <= /SPAN>We=20 will remove your details promptly.

 

--= Multipart Boundary 1020032056-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 15:55:55 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25615 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg7n-0004dq-C3 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:33 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KJtVSu017815 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg7m-0004dG-OB for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25489; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABg7k-00061b-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:28 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABg7k-00061Y-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:28 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg7J-0004WJ-H7; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg76-0004Ub-8J for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:54:48 -0400 Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m234-mp1.cvx2-a.bir.dial.ntli.net [62.255.48.234]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA25204 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201954.PAA25204@ietf.org> From: "Robert" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 1020032056" Reply-To: "Robert" Subject: [Idr] You are too expensive, can I have a discount? Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:56:09 +0100 This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 1020032056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25288 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Closing Techniques Workshop One day workshop What if the customer says: =B7 =B7 =91It=92s too expensive=92 =B7 =B7 =91We=92re happy with our present supplier=92 =B7 =B7 =91I want to think about it=92 =20 Can you handle these common objections? By far the most efficient way to be more profitable is to turn more of th= e enquiries you receive into paid orders. For this, the ability to resol= ve objections is critical - either you close or you lose the sale. And if you answer =91How much discount will you give me?=92 with: =91I=92= ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be yours with a better r= eply. =20 In only a day I will teach you techniques which overcome these objections= and more. You will be able to use them immediately to win profitable ord= ers. =20 There is no need to lose business to your competitors or give big discoun= ts.=20 =20 Fee for this event is =A3300.=20 =20 Selling for Engineers One-day Seminar =20 The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good introduction to effective sal= es principles for people who are new to selling, and also a useful refres= her for =91old hands=92. It applies to selling both technical products a= nd intangible services. =20 Many Sales Engineers have been learning the technical skills of their job= for years but have had little formal training in selling. This course h= elps correct that imbalance. =20 Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engineer, Account Executive and Bu= siness Development Manager. =20 Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 Telephone Sales Prospecting for Engineers One-day Workshop This event is a practical workshop teaching people in technical companies= how to find new customers on the phone. It is applicable to business de= velopment for both tangible products and intangible services. The first = session addresses whom to target, what to say and how to handle problems.= The remainder of the day consists of live sales calls with coaching fro= m Robert Seviour; the objective being to give delegates some positive exp= eriences of prospecting, make sales appointments and maybe sell something= ! =20 Please note that this telephone sales prospecting event is restricted to = a maximum of six delegates to permit individual coaching. Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If you have never had any formal sales training or need a refresher, don=92= t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20 =20 =20 Reservations and information Please contact Sue on:=20 =20 Tel: +44(0)1481 720 294 Fax: +44(0)1481 720 317 =20 If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this e= mail with the word =93DELETE=94 in the subject line. We will remove y= our details promptly. --= Multipart Boundary 1020032056 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25288 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

One=20 day workshop

What if=20 the customer says:

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= It=92s too=20 expensive=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= We=92re happy=20 with our present supplier=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= I want to=20 think about it=92

 

Can you handle these common=20 objections?

By far the most efficient way to be more pro= fitable=20 is to turn more of the enquiries you receive into paid orders.  For this, the ability to resolv= e=20 objections is critical - either you close or you lose the=20 sale.

And if you answer =91How much discount will = you give=20 me?=92 with: =91I=92ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be y= ours with a=20 better reply.

 

In only a day I will teach you techniques wh= ich=20 overcome these objections and more. You will be able to use them immediat= ely to=20 win profitable orders.

 

There is no need to lose business to your co= mpetitors=20 or give big discounts.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.=20

 

Sel= ling for=20 Engineers

One-day=20 Seminar

 

The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good=20 introduction to effective sales principles for people who are new to sell= ing,=20 and also a useful refresher for =91old hands=92.  It applies to selling both tech= nical=20 products and intangible services.

 

Many Sales Engineers have been learning the = technical=20 skills of their job for years but have had little formal training in=20 selling.  This course helps= correct=20 that imbalance. =20

Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engin= eer,=20 Account Executive and Business Development Manager.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

Tel= ephone=20 Sales Prospecting for Engineers

One-day=20 Workshop

This event is a practical workshop teaching = people in=20 technical companies how to find new customers on the phone.  It is applicable to business de= velopment=20 for both tangible products and intangible services.  The first session addresses who= m to=20 target, what to say and how to handle problems.  The remainder of the day consis= ts of=20 live sales calls with coaching from Robert Seviour; the objective being t= o give=20 delegates some positive experiences of prospecting, make sales appointmen= ts and=20 maybe sell something!

 

Please note that this telephone sales prospe= cting=20 event is restricted to a maximum of six delegates to permit individual=20 coaching.

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

 

 

&nb= sp;

If you have never had any formal sales train= ing or=20 need a refresher, don=92t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20

 

 

Reservations and=20 information

Please contact Sue on:

 

Tel:  +44(0)1481 720 294     Fax: +44(0)1481 720=20 317

 

If sales trainin= g is not an=20 issue for your company please reply to this email with the word =93DELETE= =94 in the=20 subject line.     <= /SPAN>We=20 will remove your details promptly.

 

--= Multipart Boundary 1020032056-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 20 16:54:06 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04405; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh2c-0000Gn-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh2b-0000Gk-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2P-0000sL-Ar; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2I-0000oJ-5V for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:54 -0400 Received: from rpk0o (syr-24-59-54-142.twcny.rr.com [24.59.54.142]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04377 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310202053.QAA04377@ietf.org> From: "youlowlife@mexican.com" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: youlowlife@mexican.com X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Fucking Scammer... Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:47 -0700 scammer, Just look at yourself..you don't look at all a business man ....You're a fucking scammer...If I were you, I better watch it, because you are being investigated as of now. Your site http://www.wealthysecrets.net is misleading. One page you have an address in Cannada, and another in the USA. If you going to scam people you better do it right, because I am going bust your in jail.... Good Luck ..You're going to need it from now on. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 16:54:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04423 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2f-000124-1c for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:17 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KKsH86003962 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2e-00011p-TR for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04405; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh2c-0000Gn-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh2b-0000Gk-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2P-0000sL-Ar; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2I-0000oJ-5V for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:54 -0400 Received: from rpk0o (syr-24-59-54-142.twcny.rr.com [24.59.54.142]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04377 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310202053.QAA04377@ietf.org> From: "youlowlife@mexican.com" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: youlowlife@mexican.com X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Fucking Scammer... Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:47 -0700 scammer, Just look at yourself..you don't look at all a business man ....You're a fucking scammer...If I were you, I better watch it, because you are being investigated as of now. Your site http://www.wealthysecrets.net is misleading. One page you have an address in Cannada, and another in the USA. If you going to scam people you better do it right, because I am going bust your in jail.... Good Luck ..You're going to need it from now on. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:26:37 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19858; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxTC-0003yh-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:46 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxTC-0003yc-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:46 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxSU-0001a3-AN; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxRg-0001P6-CN for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19809; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxRd-0003xw-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:09 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=magenta.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxRc-0003x2-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:08 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9LEOYf04820; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310211424.h9LEOYf04820@magenta.juniper.net> To: agenda@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com, yakov@juniper.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <74432.1066746199.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:23:19 -0700 Folks, Here is the current agenda for the IDR WG meeting: 1. IDR Documents status update (5 mins) S. Hares & Y. Rekhter 2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt (15 mins) Luyuan Fang, Sue Hares, Srikanth Chavali 3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00.txt (15 mins) Enke Chen, Jenny Yuan 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:27:09 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19899 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxTF-0001mh-L8 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:50 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LEQniU006855 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxTF-0001mU-FL for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19858; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxTC-0003yh-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:46 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxTC-0003yc-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:46 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxSU-0001a3-AN; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxRg-0001P6-CN for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19809; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxRd-0003xw-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:09 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=magenta.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxRc-0003x2-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:08 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9LEOYf04820; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310211424.h9LEOYf04820@magenta.juniper.net> To: agenda@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com, yakov@juniper.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <74432.1066746199.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:23:19 -0700 Folks, Here is the current agenda for the IDR WG meeting: 1. IDR Documents status update (5 mins) S. Hares & Y. Rekhter 2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt (15 mins) Luyuan Fang, Sue Hares, Srikanth Chavali 3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00.txt (15 mins) Enke Chen, Jenny Yuan 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:46:16 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21113; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxmE-0004Mg-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxmD-0004Md-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:25 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxlr-0006ky-1Y; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxlN-0006f8-Hi for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21065 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxlL-0004LS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:31 -0400 Received: from dog.tcb.net ([64.78.150.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxlK-0004Kc-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:30 -0400 Received: from arbor.net (rambler.dhcp.nanog29.merit.net [192.35.166.78]) by dog.tcb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D67202A6 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Danny McPherson To: idr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200310211424.h9LEOYf04820@magenta.juniper.net> Message-Id: <20799389-03D5-11D8-ABD5-000393D54EA6@arbor.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:44:51 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) > Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Is this draft currently available anywhere? -danny _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:46:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21164 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxmH-0006tJ-AG for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:30 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LEkTqP026487 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxmG-0006t8-Sb for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21113; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxmE-0004Mg-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:26 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxmD-0004Md-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:25 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxlr-0006ky-1Y; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxlN-0006f8-Hi for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21065 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxlL-0004LS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:31 -0400 Received: from dog.tcb.net ([64.78.150.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxlK-0004Kc-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:30 -0400 Received: from arbor.net (rambler.dhcp.nanog29.merit.net [192.35.166.78]) by dog.tcb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D67202A6 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Danny McPherson To: idr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200310211424.h9LEOYf04820@magenta.juniper.net> Message-Id: <20799389-03D5-11D8-ABD5-000393D54EA6@arbor.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:44:51 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) > Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Is this draft currently available anywhere? -danny _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:52:58 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21688; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxsi-0004X1-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxsi-0004Wy-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxsa-0000Vc-S3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxrg-0008VJ-GU for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21554 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxrd-0004UL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Received: from adsl-209-233-126-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net ([209.233.126.65] helo=arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxrd-0004TS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Thread-Index: AcOX4hLQvXsd9J53TlywL5o2psZPBQAAGv4A From: "Michel Py" To: "Danny McPherson" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:51:29 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Danny, >> 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) >> Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William >> Leibzon, Michel Py > Danny McPherson wrote: > Is this draft currently available anywhere? It has been submitted just before the deadline; in the meantime it's available here: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Michel. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:53:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21733 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxsl-0000bU-J1 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LErBnX002314 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxsl-0000bF-E9 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21688; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxsi-0004X1-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxsi-0004Wy-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxsa-0000Vc-S3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxrg-0008VJ-GU for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21554 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxrd-0004UL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Received: from adsl-209-233-126-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net ([209.233.126.65] helo=arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxrd-0004TS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Thread-Index: AcOX4hLQvXsd9J53TlywL5o2psZPBQAAGv4A From: "Michel Py" To: "Danny McPherson" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:51:29 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Danny, >> 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) >> Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William >> Leibzon, Michel Py > Danny McPherson wrote: > Is this draft currently available anywhere? It has been submitted just before the deadline; in the meantime it's available here: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Michel. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 21 11:04:03 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22269; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy3R-0004hG-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy3Q-0004hD-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy3F-0002xH-M9; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy2W-0002m4-R9 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22192 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy2U-0004fs-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:14 -0400 Received: from dns2.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.217] helo=aa-mx2.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy2T-0004fh-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7824ACCE for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aa-mx2.nexthop.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aa-mx2.nexthop.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 39164-01-70 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com (aa-exchange1.corp.nexthop.com [65.247.36.233]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82244ACCF for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:00:58 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: early posting of draft-22 Thread-Index: AcOX42YeBDT8LxFYTVOdfNCoK+XhEg== From: "Susan Hares" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at nexthop.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] early posting of draft-22 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:00:58 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those wanting a web site to pull the draft-22, please refer to: =20 http://ndzh.com/ietf/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt sue hares _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 11:04:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22322 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy3U-00036a-Ld for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LF4GVa011930 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy3U-00036L-F2 for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22269; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy3R-0004hG-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy3Q-0004hD-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy3F-0002xH-M9; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy2W-0002m4-R9 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22192 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy2U-0004fs-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:14 -0400 Received: from dns2.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.217] helo=aa-mx2.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy2T-0004fh-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7824ACCE for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aa-mx2.nexthop.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aa-mx2.nexthop.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 39164-01-70 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com (aa-exchange1.corp.nexthop.com [65.247.36.233]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82244ACCF for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:00:58 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: early posting of draft-22 Thread-Index: AcOX42YeBDT8LxFYTVOdfNCoK+XhEg== From: "Susan Hares" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at nexthop.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Idr] early posting of draft-22 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:00:58 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those wanting a web site to pull the draft-22, please refer to: =20 http://ndzh.com/ietf/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt sue hares _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Tue Oct 21 11:20:00 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23010; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIr-0004uT-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIr-0004uQ-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIk-0007lY-Q1; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIg-0007kA-Tp for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23002 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIf-0004uN-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:58 -0400 Received: from dns2.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.217] helo=aa-mx2.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIf-0004uF-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551A94ACCB for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aa-mx2.nexthop.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aa-mx2.nexthop.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 39920-01-33 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com (aa-exchange1.corp.nexthop.com [65.247.36.233]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0254AC3B for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Thread-Index: AcOX4jkO+cRBFwctRzGuwzpSt3oJlwAAsTqQ From: "Susan Hares" To: "Danny McPherson" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at nexthop.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Danny: I can get it posted by this evening. I'll send it to you. Sue -----Original Message----- From: Danny McPherson [mailto:danny@arbor.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:45 AM To: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) > Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Is this draft currently available anywhere? -danny _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 11:20:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23063 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIw-0007qS-DB for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LFKCLK030114 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIt-0007p6-FG for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23010; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIr-0004uT-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIr-0004uQ-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIk-0007lY-Q1; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIg-0007kA-Tp for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23002 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIf-0004uN-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:58 -0400 Received: from dns2.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.217] helo=aa-mx2.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIf-0004uF-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551A94ACCB for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aa-mx2.nexthop.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aa-mx2.nexthop.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 39920-01-33 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com (aa-exchange1.corp.nexthop.com [65.247.36.233]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0254AC3B for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Thread-Index: AcOX4jkO+cRBFwctRzGuwzpSt3oJlwAAsTqQ From: "Susan Hares" To: "Danny McPherson" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at nexthop.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Danny: I can get it posted by this evening. I'll send it to you. Sue -----Original Message----- From: Danny McPherson [mailto:danny@arbor.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:45 AM To: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) > Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Is this draft currently available anywhere? -danny _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Wed Oct 22 22:38:06 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14911; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACVMc-0007NJ-00; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACVMc-0007NE-00; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVMQ-0007w0-5e; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVM6-0007rN-EV for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:42 -0400 Received: from FFF ([218.72.117.198]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA14877 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310230237.WAA14877@ietf.org> From: "bacc@gte.net" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] increased sexiness baby! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:33:14 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPnNoYXJrPC9USVRMRT48L0hFQUQ+DQo8Qk9EWSBiZ2NvbG9yPSIj MDAzMzMzIj48ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9 ImJsYWNrIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9IndoaXRlIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ3aGl0ZSIg Ym9yZGVyPSIxIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0wIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPTA+PHRyPjx0ZCBhbGlnbj0iY2Vu dGVyIj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+TEFU RVNUIEJSRUFLVEhST1VHSCAtIE5FV1MgRkxBU0g8L2I+PC9mb250Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFi bGU+DQo8YnI+PDIzMTQyMzFoPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9ImJsYWNrIiBi b3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9InllbGxvdyIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JsaWdodD0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXI9 IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0K PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMyIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj48YnI+DQpUaGUg PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InJlZCI+QkFEPC9mb250PiBOZXdzOiA8aT5BcyB5b3UgQWdlIHlvdXIgYm9k eSBwcm9kdWNlcyBsZXNzIDwyMzE0MjMxaD5ob3Jtb25lcyBjYXVzaW5nIHlvdSB0byBsb29rIG9s ZGVyLCBmZWVsIG9sZGVyIGFuZCBiZSB3ZWFrZXIhPC9pPg0KPGJyPjxicj4NCiZuYnNwO1RoZSA8 Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iIzAwQ0M2NiI+R09PRDwvZm9udD4gTmV3czogPGk+RXhwZXJ0cyBpbiB0aGUg TmV3IEVuZ2xhbmQgSm91cm5hbCBvZiA8MjMxNDIzMWg+IE1lZGljaW5lLCByZXBvcnQgdGhhdCBI dW1hbiBHcm93dGggSG9ybW9uZTwyMzE0MjMxaD4gdGhlcmFweSBtYWtlcyB5b3UgbG9vayBhbmQg ZmVlbCAyMCBZRUFSUyBZT1VOR0VSITwvaT48YnI+PGJyPjwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+ PC90YWJsZT48MjMxNDIzMWg+DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0id2hp dGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBib3Jk ZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIi Pjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9zaGFya0B3d3cuaGVyYmFsLXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUv aGdoLz8yMzE0MjMxaCI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9ImJsdWUi PjxiPlRoaXMgTGluayBXb3JrcyBUaGlzIFRpbWUhPC9iPjwvZm9udD48L2E+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQg c2l6ZT0iLTEiIGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJibGFjayI+KHNvcnJ5IGFib3V0IHRoZSBi cm9rZW4gbGluayBsYXN0IHRpbWUgZ3V5cyEhKTwvZm9udD48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJs ZT4NCjwvZGl2PjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 22:38:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14951 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVMh-00082A-1x for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9N2cJQT030878 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVMg-00081x-Tr for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14911; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACVMc-0007NJ-00; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACVMc-0007NE-00; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVMQ-0007w0-5e; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVM6-0007rN-EV for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:42 -0400 Received: from FFF ([218.72.117.198]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA14877 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310230237.WAA14877@ietf.org> From: "bacc@gte.net" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] increased sexiness baby! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:33:14 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPnNoYXJrPC9USVRMRT48L0hFQUQ+DQo8Qk9EWSBiZ2NvbG9yPSIj MDAzMzMzIj48ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9 ImJsYWNrIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9IndoaXRlIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ3aGl0ZSIg Ym9yZGVyPSIxIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0wIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPTA+PHRyPjx0ZCBhbGlnbj0iY2Vu dGVyIj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+TEFU RVNUIEJSRUFLVEhST1VHSCAtIE5FV1MgRkxBU0g8L2I+PC9mb250Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFi bGU+DQo8YnI+PDIzMTQyMzFoPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9ImJsYWNrIiBi b3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9InllbGxvdyIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JsaWdodD0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXI9 IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0K PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMyIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj48YnI+DQpUaGUg PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InJlZCI+QkFEPC9mb250PiBOZXdzOiA8aT5BcyB5b3UgQWdlIHlvdXIgYm9k eSBwcm9kdWNlcyBsZXNzIDwyMzE0MjMxaD5ob3Jtb25lcyBjYXVzaW5nIHlvdSB0byBsb29rIG9s ZGVyLCBmZWVsIG9sZGVyIGFuZCBiZSB3ZWFrZXIhPC9pPg0KPGJyPjxicj4NCiZuYnNwO1RoZSA8 Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iIzAwQ0M2NiI+R09PRDwvZm9udD4gTmV3czogPGk+RXhwZXJ0cyBpbiB0aGUg TmV3IEVuZ2xhbmQgSm91cm5hbCBvZiA8MjMxNDIzMWg+IE1lZGljaW5lLCByZXBvcnQgdGhhdCBI dW1hbiBHcm93dGggSG9ybW9uZTwyMzE0MjMxaD4gdGhlcmFweSBtYWtlcyB5b3UgbG9vayBhbmQg ZmVlbCAyMCBZRUFSUyBZT1VOR0VSITwvaT48YnI+PGJyPjwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+ PC90YWJsZT48MjMxNDIzMWg+DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0id2hp dGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBib3Jk ZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIi Pjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9zaGFya0B3d3cuaGVyYmFsLXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUv aGdoLz8yMzE0MjMxaCI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9ImJsdWUi PjxiPlRoaXMgTGluayBXb3JrcyBUaGlzIFRpbWUhPC9iPjwvZm9udD48L2E+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQg c2l6ZT0iLTEiIGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJibGFjayI+KHNvcnJ5IGFib3V0IHRoZSBi cm9rZW4gbGluayBsYXN0IHRpbWUgZ3V5cyEhKTwvZm9udD48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJs ZT4NCjwvZGl2PjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Thu Oct 23 08:56:08 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16529; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0i-0006nx-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0i-0006nu-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0U-00029j-5W; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0H-000267-0B for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16478 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0F-0006mb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:47 -0400 Received: from max4-mtl-dialup152.securenet.net ([205.205.79.62] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf03-0006lk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:41 -0400 From: "C/B CSD" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA16479 Subject: [Idr] Press Release / Communiqué de Presse Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:30 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 MESSAGE FRANCAIS INCLUS****FRENCH MESSAGE INCLUDED =20 =20 =20 CANADA BOOKS 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 =20 PRESS RELEASE =20 CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2003 EDITION =20 Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-05-7 =20 The new revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory 2003 is now available.=20 The new edition is the most complete and affordable reference for anyone looking for financial support. It is deemed to be the perfect tool for new or existing businesses, individual ventures, foundations and associations. =20 This Publication contains more than 2000 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organisations. In this new 2003 edition all programs are well described. =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtai= n assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture, communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more! =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is sold $ 69.95, to obtain a copy please call: Canada Books...............(450) 224-9275 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 MESSAGE FRANCAIS*******FRENCH MESSAGE =20 =20 =20 ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC 2004 D=E9pot l=E9gal-Biblioth=E8que Nationale du Qu=E9bec ISBN 2-922870-06-5 =20 COMMUNIQU=C9 DE PRESSE =20 Les Publications Canadiennes offrent au public une =E9dition r=E9vis=E9e = de l'ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC contenant plus de 1900 programmes d'aides et de subventions provenant des divers paliers gouvernementaux et organismes. Dans la nouvelle =E9dition 2004 on trouve la description des programmes ainsi que les montants allou=E9s. =20 L'ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QU=C9BEC est l'outil id=E9al soit pour d=E9= marrer son entreprise, am=E9liorer une entreprise existante, mettre sur pied son pla= n d'affaires ou obtenir l'aide de conseillers experts dans le domaine des affaires: D=E9marrage d'entreprises, =E9tudes, recherches, arts, agriculture, impor= t export, main d'oeuvre, cin=E9ma, pr=EAts, promotion, bourses, th=E9atre, transpor= ts, communications, mise sur pied et d=E9veloppement d'entreprises, construct= ion et r=E9novation, a=E9rospatial, concours, nouveaux talents, aide aux associa= tions, organismes et fondations, informatique, musique, industrie du disque, pla= ns d'affaires, =E9tudes de march=E9s, infrastructures, aide aux travailleurs autonomes et plus encore ! =20 L'annuaire des subventions est vendu $ 69,95. Informations.....................(450) 224-9275 =20 LIVRES CANADA 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 08:56:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16568 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0k-0002Fi-T5 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NCuIrV008654 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0k-0002FV-Nn for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16529; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0i-0006nx-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0i-0006nu-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0U-00029j-5W; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0H-000267-0B for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16478 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0F-0006mb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:47 -0400 Received: from max4-mtl-dialup152.securenet.net ([205.205.79.62] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf03-0006lk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:41 -0400 From: "C/B CSD" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA16479 Subject: [Idr] Press Release / Communiqué de Presse Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:30 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 MESSAGE FRANCAIS INCLUS****FRENCH MESSAGE INCLUDED =20 =20 =20 CANADA BOOKS 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 =20 PRESS RELEASE =20 CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2003 EDITION =20 Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-05-7 =20 The new revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory 2003 is now available.=20 The new edition is the most complete and affordable reference for anyone looking for financial support. It is deemed to be the perfect tool for new or existing businesses, individual ventures, foundations and associations. =20 This Publication contains more than 2000 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organisations. In this new 2003 edition all programs are well described. =20 The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtai= n assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture, communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. 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BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:30:09 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18556; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfXe-0007H9-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfXd-0007H6-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfXO-0001XW-Sj; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfWt-0001RK-6K for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:31 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18493; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231329.JAA18493@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:19 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4) Author(s) : Y. Rekhter, et. al. Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt Pages : 98 Date : 2003-10-22 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-Autonomous System routing protocol. The primary function of a BGP speaking system is to exchange network reachability information with other BGP systems. This network reachability information includes information on the list of Autonomous Systems (ASs) that reachability information traverses. This information is sufficient to construct a graph of AS connectivity for this reachability from which routing loops may be pruned and some policy decisions at the AS level may be enforced. BGP-4 provides a set of mechanisms for supporting Classless Inter- Domain Routing (CIDR) [RFC1518, RFC1519]. These mechanisms include support for advertising a set of destinations as an IP prefix, and eliminating the concept of network 'class' within BGP. BGP-4 also introduces mechanisms which allow aggregation of routes, including aggregation of AS paths. Routing information exchanged via BGP supports only the destination- based forwarding paradigm, which assumes that a router forwards a packet based solely on the destination address carried in the IP header of the packet. This, in turn, reflects the set of policy decisions that can (and can not) be enforced using BGP. BGP can support only the policies conforming to the destination-based forwarding paradigm. This specification covers only the exchange of IP version 4 network reachability information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-22183917.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-22183917.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:30:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18599 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfXg-0001gU-Sw for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDUK6N006473 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfXg-0001gK-Ov for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18556; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfXe-0007H9-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfXd-0007H6-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfXO-0001XW-Sj; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfWt-0001RK-6K for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:31 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18493; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231329.JAA18493@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:19 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4) Author(s) : Y. Rekhter, et. al. Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt Pages : 98 Date : 2003-10-22 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-Autonomous System routing protocol. The primary function of a BGP speaking system is to exchange network reachability information with other BGP systems. This network reachability information includes information on the list of Autonomous Systems (ASs) that reachability information traverses. This information is sufficient to construct a graph of AS connectivity for this reachability from which routing loops may be pruned and some policy decisions at the AS level may be enforced. BGP-4 provides a set of mechanisms for supporting Classless Inter- Domain Routing (CIDR) [RFC1518, RFC1519]. These mechanisms include support for advertising a set of destinations as an IP prefix, and eliminating the concept of network 'class' within BGP. BGP-4 also introduces mechanisms which allow aggregation of routes, including aggregation of AS paths. Routing information exchanged via BGP supports only the destination- based forwarding paradigm, which assumes that a router forwards a packet based solely on the destination address carried in the IP header of the packet. This, in turn, reflects the set of policy decisions that can (and can not) be enforced using BGP. BGP can support only the policies conforming to the destination-based forwarding paradigm. This specification covers only the exchange of IP version 4 network reachability information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-22183917.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-22183917.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 24 06:31:12 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24203; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzE0-00014T-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzDz-00014O-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzDk-0005Oo-6K; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzD7-0005JQ-6K for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24128 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzD3-00013R-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:21 -0400 Received: from 80.179.107.66.forward.012.net.il ([80.179.107.66] helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzCx-00012v-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:16 -0400 From: "Philemon Muhkele" To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Idr] Partnership Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:28:45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Philemon Muhkele(chief auditor) 155 president street, Johannesburg, South Africa. Tel: +874-762919-885. Fax:+874-762919-886. Dear , Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that everything will be well at theend of the day. We have decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction. I got your email address while searching for trustworthy individual. Let me start by introducing myself properly to you. I am Philemon Muhkele an auditor with Ned Credit Bank, Johannesburg, South Africa . MY PROPOSITION: A French foreigner Late Engr.Peter Claude (Snr) a merchant with The Federal Government of South Africa, Formerly working in Witwatersrand Johannesburg Gold Mine, Johannesburg South Africa. Until his death few year ago in Kenya Air Bus (A310 - 304)Flight KQ431, He banked with us at Ned Credit Bank Johannesburg and had a closing balance as at the end of September, 2000 worth $30,800.000.00 (Thirty Million eight hundred thousand United State Dollars), (this is aside the accrued interest so far from that date) the bank now expects his next of kin as beneficiary. Valuable efforts are being made by the Bank to get in touch with any of the Claude's Family or Relatives but to no success. Since we got information about his death, we have been expecting his next of kin to come over and claim his money because we cannot release it unless somebody applies for it as next of kin or relation to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines but unfortunately we learnt that all his supposed next of kin or relation died alongside with him at the plane crash leaving nobody behind for the claim. It is because of the perceived possibility of not being able to locate any of Late Engr. Peter Claude(Snr.)'s next of kin . The Management under the influence of our Chairman and Members of the Board of Directors, Thus that arrangement has been made for the fund to be decleare"Unclaimed" and subsequentlly be donated to the trust fund for arms and ammunition to further enhance the course of War in Africa and the World in General. In order to avert this negative development, some of my trusted colleagues and I, now seek your permission to have you stand as next of kin to the late Engr.peter Claude (Snr.) so that the fund will be released and paid into your Account as the beneficiary/next of kin.The request of A foreigner as next of kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer(Claude) was a foreigner and a Local person here in the country cannot stand as next of kin to a foreigner). All documents and proves to enable you get this fund will be carefully worked out. We have secured from the probate registry, an order of Mandamus to locate any of the deceased's beneficiary(ies), and more so we are assuring you that this business is 100% Risk Free. Your share will be 30% of the total sum while 10% will be set aside for any expences incured during the course of the transaction, The rest of 60% will be for myself and my colleagues for investment purposes, According to agreement between both parties. Therefore to enable the immediate transfer of this fund to you as arranged, you must apply first to the bank as relations or next of kin to the deceased indicating your bank name, your bank account number, your private telephone and fax number for easy and effective communication and location where-in the money will be remitted. I will also instruct you on how you can add in your application to our bank, so that you get paid through our corresponding bank overseas as this will be easier for us. Upon receipt of your reply, I will send to you by fax or email the text of the application. Please note that for the purposes of confidentiality, you may further correspond through my alternative email address: philemonm@hknetmail.com or have me called through my telephone +874-762919-885. Accept my warm regards as I await your response. Sincerely Philemon Muhkele _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 06:31:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24263 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzE5-0005Xd-Or for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:25 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OAVPqg021297 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzE4-0005XO-Rm for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24203; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzE0-00014T-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzDz-00014O-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzDk-0005Oo-6K; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzD7-0005JQ-6K for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24128 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzD3-00013R-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:21 -0400 Received: from 80.179.107.66.forward.012.net.il ([80.179.107.66] helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzCx-00012v-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:16 -0400 From: "Philemon Muhkele" To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Idr] Partnership Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:28:45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Philemon Muhkele(chief auditor) 155 president street, Johannesburg, South Africa. Tel: +874-762919-885. Fax:+874-762919-886. Dear , Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that everything will be well at theend of the day. We have decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction. I got your email address while searching for trustworthy individual. Let me start by introducing myself properly to you. I am Philemon Muhkele an auditor with Ned Credit Bank, Johannesburg, South Africa . MY PROPOSITION: A French foreigner Late Engr.Peter Claude (Snr) a merchant with The Federal Government of South Africa, Formerly working in Witwatersrand Johannesburg Gold Mine, Johannesburg South Africa. Until his death few year ago in Kenya Air Bus (A310 - 304)Flight KQ431, He banked with us at Ned Credit Bank Johannesburg and had a closing balance as at the end of September, 2000 worth $30,800.000.00 (Thirty Million eight hundred thousand United State Dollars), (this is aside the accrued interest so far from that date) the bank now expects his next of kin as beneficiary. Valuable efforts are being made by the Bank to get in touch with any of the Claude's Family or Relatives but to no success. Since we got information about his death, we have been expecting his next of kin to come over and claim his money because we cannot release it unless somebody applies for it as next of kin or relation to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines but unfortunately we learnt that all his supposed next of kin or relation died alongside with him at the plane crash leaving nobody behind for the claim. It is because of the perceived possibility of not being able to locate any of Late Engr. Peter Claude(Snr.)'s next of kin . The Management under the influence of our Chairman and Members of the Board of Directors, Thus that arrangement has been made for the fund to be decleare"Unclaimed" and subsequentlly be donated to the trust fund for arms and ammunition to further enhance the course of War in Africa and the World in General. In order to avert this negative development, some of my trusted colleagues and I, now seek your permission to have you stand as next of kin to the late Engr.peter Claude (Snr.) so that the fund will be released and paid into your Account as the beneficiary/next of kin.The request of A foreigner as next of kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer(Claude) was a foreigner and a Local person here in the country cannot stand as next of kin to a foreigner). All documents and proves to enable you get this fund will be carefully worked out. We have secured from the probate registry, an order of Mandamus to locate any of the deceased's beneficiary(ies), and more so we are assuring you that this business is 100% Risk Free. Your share will be 30% of the total sum while 10% will be set aside for any expences incured during the course of the transaction, The rest of 60% will be for myself and my colleagues for investment purposes, According to agreement between both parties. Therefore to enable the immediate transfer of this fund to you as arranged, you must apply first to the bank as relations or next of kin to the deceased indicating your bank name, your bank account number, your private telephone and fax number for easy and effective communication and location where-in the money will be remitted. I will also instruct you on how you can add in your application to our bank, so that you get paid through our corresponding bank overseas as this will be easier for us. Upon receipt of your reply, I will send to you by fax or email the text of the application. Please note that for the purposes of confidentiality, you may further correspond through my alternative email address: philemonm@hknetmail.com or have me called through my telephone +874-762919-885. Accept my warm regards as I await your response. Sincerely Philemon Muhkele _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 24 14:46:55 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22669; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6xk-0002Y7-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6xk-0002Y4-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6wj-0007mK-Pk; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6wE-0007hM-4N for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22555 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6wB-0002VW-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:27 -0400 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6wA-0002VR-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:26 -0400 Received: from [61.41.140.174] (helo=MailUser) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AD6wA-0006aS-Hl for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Mike" From: "Mike" To: "" Organization: best-invest X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Subject: [Idr] Mike's (best-Invest in real money) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:45:23 +0900 Hi call me Mike. I earn money in the Internet. Visit a site on which I has collected all links on which it is possible well to earn. http://best-invest.x-internet-x.com The best investment sites on which here are included it is possible to increase the capital, and also to earn participating in the partner programs. Really money is not necessary for you? _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 14:47:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22709 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6xo-0007zC-4M for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OIl8hL030697 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6xo-0007z2-0J for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22669; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6xk-0002Y7-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6xk-0002Y4-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6wj-0007mK-Pk; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6wE-0007hM-4N for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22555 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6wB-0002VW-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:27 -0400 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6wA-0002VR-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:26 -0400 Received: from [61.41.140.174] (helo=MailUser) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AD6wA-0006aS-Hl for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Mike" From: "Mike" To: "" Organization: best-invest X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Subject: [Idr] Mike's (best-Invest in real money) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:45:23 +0900 Hi call me Mike. I earn money in the Internet. Visit a site on which I has collected all links on which it is possible well to earn. http://best-invest.x-internet-x.com The best investment sites on which here are included it is possible to increase the capital, and also to earn participating in the partner programs. Really money is not necessary for you? _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Fri Oct 24 18:53:10 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04717; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAo4-0005nb-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAo4-0005nY-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAnl-0004xf-9L; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAn7-0004u1-76 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04686 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAn4-0005mi-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:18 -0400 Received: from tigger.icir.org ([192.150.187.78]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAn3-0005mf-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:17 -0400 Received: from tigger.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tigger.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9OMqGWR017295 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atanu@tigger.icir.org) To: idr@ietf.org Reply-To: atanu@icsi.berkeley.edu From: Atanu Ghosh X-Organisation: The International Computer Science Institute X-Phone: +1 510 666 2966 X-Fax: +1 510 666 2956 X-Url: X-Face: "vo>pjO=2{5vAaQnJ+eIGQq4rz!lK{fOOkT!sIsS^dxv90L}WQk).kC_,5^0!RxK HM7b=#=g#WZ;HFt9Nw%bCuz[kzFEY{YpW_CaxKfuK1=SvTf)WkGK?,8_RFzfuIP$G o9]]O,\F40]rw79Arl'gB+gw`LgGId-D5S[J#4bWG^5]/Z62.Ka(81i.XMiU+y:Nf bf-]pyNeP1!K?L~H7.x+NC|Zi0=#B2"EIsV:FBH7N@XOQBH[DkxFW#/"u@SV'd-T1 DnGQC[QhB,tYS Subject: [Idr] multiprotocol extensions to BGP-4 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:52:16 -0700 I want to know how to process an update packet containing a Multiprotocol Reachable NLRI or a Multiprotocol Unreachable NLRI for an AFI/SAFI, when both sides did not send send the appropriate capability. Lets consider the four multiprotocol capability exchange options: 1) Capability exchange: Local no | Peer no The local BGP has not told its peer that it can handle this attribute. As the attribute is non-transitive it can legally be silently dropped. 2) Capability exchange: Local no | Peer yes The local BGP has not told its peer that it can handle this attribute. As the attribute is non-transitive it can legally be silently dropped. 3) Capability exchange: Local yes | Peer no Both sides did not agree on exchanging multiprotocol attributes. The local BGP did signal that it was willing to accept multiprotocol attributes. a) Accept the attribute. We have signalled that we will accept this attribute, so accept it and process it. This is a little weird as the peer will never receive a multiprotocol attribute from us. b) Silently drop. This choice doesn't seem to make much sense. c) Send a notify to the peer and drop peering. We didn't both agree to exchange multiprotocol attributes and now we receive one. Is this an error? 4) Capability exchange: Local yes | Peer yes The normal case. For cases 1 and 2 it could be argued that a notify should be generated? For case 3 what is the correct behaviour? In the error handling section in rfc2858, a behaviour is defined for attribute error. Is receiving a multiprotocol attribute when one was not expected an error? Should the error handling section of rfc2858 be expanded to cover the case of receiving an unexpected well formed multiprotocol attribute? I had been using draft-ietf-idr-rfc2858bis-03.txt which expires January 2004. This draft is no longer mentioned on the idr web pages? Atanu. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 18:53:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04735 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAo8-00051K-7k for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:24 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OMrOZJ019295 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAo8-000518-4A for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04717; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAo4-0005nb-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAo4-0005nY-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAnl-0004xf-9L; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAn7-0004u1-76 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04686 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAn4-0005mi-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:18 -0400 Received: from tigger.icir.org ([192.150.187.78]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAn3-0005mf-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:17 -0400 Received: from tigger.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tigger.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9OMqGWR017295 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atanu@tigger.icir.org) To: idr@ietf.org Reply-To: atanu@icsi.berkeley.edu From: Atanu Ghosh X-Organisation: The International Computer Science Institute X-Phone: +1 510 666 2966 X-Fax: +1 510 666 2956 X-Url: X-Face: "vo>pjO=2{5vAaQnJ+eIGQq4rz!lK{fOOkT!sIsS^dxv90L}WQk).kC_,5^0!RxK HM7b=#=g#WZ;HFt9Nw%bCuz[kzFEY{YpW_CaxKfuK1=SvTf)WkGK?,8_RFzfuIP$G o9]]O,\F40]rw79Arl'gB+gw`LgGId-D5S[J#4bWG^5]/Z62.Ka(81i.XMiU+y:Nf bf-]pyNeP1!K?L~H7.x+NC|Zi0=#B2"EIsV:FBH7N@XOQBH[DkxFW#/"u@SV'd-T1 DnGQC[QhB,tYS Subject: [Idr] multiprotocol extensions to BGP-4 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:52:16 -0700 I want to know how to process an update packet containing a Multiprotocol Reachable NLRI or a Multiprotocol Unreachable NLRI for an AFI/SAFI, when both sides did not send send the appropriate capability. Lets consider the four multiprotocol capability exchange options: 1) Capability exchange: Local no | Peer no The local BGP has not told its peer that it can handle this attribute. As the attribute is non-transitive it can legally be silently dropped. 2) Capability exchange: Local no | Peer yes The local BGP has not told its peer that it can handle this attribute. As the attribute is non-transitive it can legally be silently dropped. 3) Capability exchange: Local yes | Peer no Both sides did not agree on exchanging multiprotocol attributes. The local BGP did signal that it was willing to accept multiprotocol attributes. a) Accept the attribute. We have signalled that we will accept this attribute, so accept it and process it. This is a little weird as the peer will never receive a multiprotocol attribute from us. b) Silently drop. This choice doesn't seem to make much sense. c) Send a notify to the peer and drop peering. We didn't both agree to exchange multiprotocol attributes and now we receive one. Is this an error? 4) Capability exchange: Local yes | Peer yes The normal case. For cases 1 and 2 it could be argued that a notify should be generated? For case 3 what is the correct behaviour? In the error handling section in rfc2858, a behaviour is defined for attribute error. Is receiving a multiprotocol attribute when one was not expected an error? Should the error handling section of rfc2858 be expanded to cover the case of receiving an unexpected well formed multiprotocol attribute? I had been using draft-ietf-idr-rfc2858bis-03.txt which expires January 2004. This draft is no longer mentioned on the idr web pages? Atanu. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Sun Oct 26 18:13:22 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04023; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:13:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADu4i-0002Dr-00; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:13:32 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADu4i-0002Dm-00; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:13:32 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADu4C-0005Zs-O6; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:13:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADu3E-0005VZ-Mp for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:12:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03881 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADu3B-0002DJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:57 -0500 Received: from rly-ip03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADu3B-0002D6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:57 -0500 Received: from logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com (logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com [198.81.20.2]) by rly-ip03.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id RELAYIN5-63f9c5482d5; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:10:58 2000 Received: from NOEMIANDREW (ACC4CE9D.ipt.aol.com [172.196.206.157]) by logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9QN6h8f002423 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:06:43 GMT Message-Id: <200310262306.h9QN6h8f002423@logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com> X-Priority: 3 (normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Dynamic Mail Communicator 1.0.28 Importance: Normal To: "idr@ietf.org" From: "www.sliceitup.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=NextPart00A_000_7702765D" X-Apparently-From: Mstrbns@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 198.81.20.2 Subject: [Idr] RARE/OUT OF PRINT/CLASSIC HIP HOP VINYL & LOTS OF OLD SCHOOL AUDIO AT NEW SITE... 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Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:06:36 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=NextPart00A_000_7702765D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V1dXLlNMSUNFSVRVUC5DT00gLi4uIEZJUlNUIE9GRiwgRk9SIFRIRSBESidTLCBMT1RTIE9GIE9M RCBTQ0hPT0wgJiBPVVQgT0YgUFJJTlQvUkFSRSBISVAgSE9QIFJFQ09SRFMgV0lUSCBDT05TVEFO VCBVUERBVEVTL05FVyBSRUNPUkRTIEFEREVELiBBVURJTyBGT1IgQUJPVVQgOTglIE9GIFRIRSBS RUNPUkRTIEZPUiBTQUxFLg0KLi4uQUxTTywgQkUgU1VSRSBUTyBDSEVDSyBPVVQgT1VSICJCRUFU UyBPRiBUSEUgV0VFSyIgLCAiQUxCVU0gT0YgVEhFIFdFRUsiICwgJiAiTUlYIE9GIFRIRSBXRUVL IiBTRUNUSU9OUyBGT1IgU09NRSBGSU5FIE9MRCBTQ0hPT0wvVU5ERVJHUk9VTkQgQVVESU8gU0lN UExZIEZPUiBZT1VSIExJU1RFTklORyBQTEVBU1VSRSEhIQ0KKHdlIHByb21pc2UgeW91J2xsIGhl YXIgYWxvdCBsZXNzIG9mIHRoZSBzdHVmZiB5b3UgaGVhciBvbiBhbGwgdGhlc2UgInVuZGVyZ3Jv dW5kL29sZCBzY2hvb2wgc3RhdGlvbnMvc2l0ZXMgb24gdGhlIG5ldCB0aGF0IHBsYXkgYWxsIHRo ZSBzYW1lIHN0dWZmIHdlJ3JlIHRpcmVkIG9mIGFscmVhZHkhISEpIE1JWCBDRCBTRUNUSU9OIFRP Ty4uLi5DT01FIENIRUNLIFVTIE9VVCAmIFlPVSBXT04nVCBCRSBESVNTQVBPSU5URUQhISEhDQpX V1cuU0xJQ0VJVFVQLkNPTSAuLi4gUEVBQ0UgJiBUQUtFIENBUkU= ------=NextPart00A_000_7702765D Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8SEVBRD4NCjxNRVRBIE5BTUU9IkdFTkVSQVRPUiIgQ29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0 IERIVE1MIEVkaXRpbmcgQ29udHJvbCI+DQo8VElUTEU+PC9USVRMRT4NCjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZ Pg0KPFA+PEEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5TTElDRUlUVVAuQ09NIj5XV1cuU0xJQ0VJVFVQLkNP TTwvQT4gDQouLi4gRklSU1QgT0ZGLCBGT1IgVEhFIERKJ1MsIExPVFMgT0YgT0xEIFNDSE9PTCAm YW1wOyBPVVQgT0YgUFJJTlQvUkFSRSBISVAgSE9QIA0KUkVDT1JEUyBXSVRIIENPTlNUQU5UIFVQ REFURVMvTkVXIFJFQ09SRFMgQURERUQuIEFVRElPIEZPUiBBQk9VVCA5OCUgT0YgVEhFIA0KUkVD T1JEUyBGT1IgU0FMRS48QlI+Li4uQUxTTywgQkUgU1VSRSBUTyBDSEVDSyBPVVQgT1VSICJCRUFU UyBPRiBUSEUgV0VFSyIgLCANCiJBTEJVTSBPRiBUSEUgV0VFSyIgLCAmYW1wOyAiTUlYIE9GIFRI RSBXRUVLIiBTRUNUSU9OUyBGT1IgU09NRSBGSU5FIE9MRCANClNDSE9PTC9VTkRFUkdST1VORCBB VURJTyBTSU1QTFkgRk9SIFlPVVIgTElTVEVOSU5HIFBMRUFTVVJFISEhPEJSPih3ZSBwcm9taXNl IA0KeW91J2xsIGhlYXIgYWxvdCBsZXNzIG9mIHRoZSBzdHVmZiB5b3UgaGVhciBvbiBhbGwgdGhl c2UgInVuZGVyZ3JvdW5kL29sZCBzY2hvb2wgDQpzdGF0aW9ucy9zaXRlcyBvbiB0aGUgbmV0IHRo YXQgcGxheSBhbGwgdGhlIHNhbWUgc3R1ZmYgd2UncmUgdGlyZWQgb2YgDQphbHJlYWR5ISEhKSBN SVggQ0QgU0VDVElPTiBUT08uLi4uQ09NRSBDSEVDSyBVUyBPVVQgJmFtcDsgWU9VIFdPTidUIEJF IA0KRElTU0FQT0lOVEVEISEhITxCUj48QSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LlNMSUNFSVRVUC5DT00i PldXVy5TTElDRUlUVVAuQ09NPC9BPiAuLi4gDQpQRUFDRSAmYW1wOyBUQUtFIENBUkU8L1A+DQo8 L0JPRFk+DQo8L0hUTUw+DQo= ------=NextPart00A_000_7702765D-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From idr-admin@ietf.org Mon Oct 27 07:42:09 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10107; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6hP-0004Jo-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:19 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6hO-0004Jl-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6h7-00066Y-Gq; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6gQ-000652-Pg for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10089; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6gP-0004JI-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0500 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6gP-0004Iq-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0500 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9RCeki09996; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310271240.h9RCeki09996@merlot.juniper.net> To: agenda@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <36905.1067258446.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] (updated) IDR WG agenda Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:40:46 -0800 Folks, Here is the (updated) current agenda for the IDR WG meeting: 1. IDR Documents status update (5 mins) S. Hares & Y. Rekhter 2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt (15 mins) Luyuan Fang, Sue Hares, Srikanth Chavali 3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00.txt (15 mins) Enke Chen, Jenny Yuan 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py 5. draft-nalawade-bgp-soft-notify-00.txt (15 mins) Gargi Nalawade, Keyur Patel, John Scudder, David Ward 6. draft-nalawade-bgp-update-v2-00.txt (15 mins) Gargi Nalawade, Himanshu Shah Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 07:42:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10156 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6hQ-0006Bi-O5 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RCgKkC023780 for idr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6hQ-0006BT-JW for idr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10107; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6hP-0004Jo-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:19 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6hO-0004Jl-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6h7-00066Y-Gq; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6gQ-000652-Pg for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10089; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6gP-0004JI-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0500 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6gP-0004Iq-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0500 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9RCeki09996; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310271240.h9RCeki09996@merlot.juniper.net> To: agenda@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <36905.1067258446.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] (updated) IDR WG agenda Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:40:46 -0800 Folks, Here is the (updated) current agenda for the IDR WG meeting: 1. IDR Documents status update (5 mins) S. Hares & Y. Rekhter 2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt (15 mins) Luyuan Fang, Sue Hares, Srikanth Chavali 3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00.txt (15 mins) Enke Chen, Jenny Yuan 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py 5. draft-nalawade-bgp-soft-notify-00.txt (15 mins) Gargi Nalawade, Keyur Patel, John Scudder, David Ward 6. draft-nalawade-bgp-update-v2-00.txt (15 mins) Gargi Nalawade, Himanshu Shah Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA16211 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6h7-00066a-JC; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE6gQ-000652-Pg for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10089; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6gP-0004JI-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0500 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE6gP-0004Iq-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:17 -0500 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9RCeki09996; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310271240.h9RCeki09996@merlot.juniper.net> To: agenda@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <36905.1067258446.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] (updated) IDR WG agenda Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 04:40:46 -0800 Folks, Here is the (updated) current agenda for the IDR WG meeting: 1. IDR Documents status update (5 mins) S. Hares & Y. Rekhter 2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt (15 mins) Luyuan Fang, Sue Hares, Srikanth Chavali 3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00.txt (15 mins) Enke Chen, Jenny Yuan 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py 5. draft-nalawade-bgp-soft-notify-00.txt (15 mins) Gargi Nalawade, Keyur Patel, John Scudder, David Ward 6. draft-nalawade-bgp-update-v2-00.txt (15 mins) Gargi Nalawade, Himanshu Shah Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA04269 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADu4C-0005Zu-Pi; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:13:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADu3E-0005VZ-Mp for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:12:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03881 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADu3B-0002DJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:57 -0500 Received: from rly-ip03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADu3B-0002D6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:57 -0500 Received: from logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com (logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com [198.81.20.2]) by rly-ip03.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id RELAYIN5-63f9c5482d5; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:10:58 2000 Received: from NOEMIANDREW (ACC4CE9D.ipt.aol.com [172.196.206.157]) by logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9QN6h8f002423 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:06:43 GMT Message-Id: <200310262306.h9QN6h8f002423@logs-ntc-ti.proxy.aol.com> X-Priority: 3 (normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Dynamic Mail Communicator 1.0.28 Importance: Normal To: "idr@ietf.org" From: "www.sliceitup.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=NextPart00A_000_7702765D" X-Apparently-From: Mstrbns@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 198.81.20.2 Subject: [Idr] RARE/OUT OF PRINT/CLASSIC HIP HOP VINYL & LOTS OF OLD SCHOOL AUDIO AT NEW SITE... Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:06:36 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=NextPart00A_000_7702765D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V1dXLlNMSUNFSVRVUC5DT00gLi4uIEZJUlNUIE9GRiwgRk9SIFRIRSBESidTLCBMT1RTIE9GIE9M RCBTQ0hPT0wgJiBPVVQgT0YgUFJJTlQvUkFSRSBISVAgSE9QIFJFQ09SRFMgV0lUSCBDT05TVEFO VCBVUERBVEVTL05FVyBSRUNPUkRTIEFEREVELiBBVURJTyBGT1IgQUJPVVQgOTglIE9GIFRIRSBS RUNPUkRTIEZPUiBTQUxFLg0KLi4uQUxTTywgQkUgU1VSRSBUTyBDSEVDSyBPVVQgT1VSICJCRUFU UyBPRiBUSEUgV0VFSyIgLCAiQUxCVU0gT0YgVEhFIFdFRUsiICwgJiAiTUlYIE9GIFRIRSBXRUVL IiBTRUNUSU9OUyBGT1IgU09NRSBGSU5FIE9MRCBTQ0hPT0wvVU5ERVJHUk9VTkQgQVVESU8gU0lN UExZIEZPUiBZT1VSIExJU1RFTklORyBQTEVBU1VSRSEhIQ0KKHdlIHByb21pc2UgeW91J2xsIGhl YXIgYWxvdCBsZXNzIG9mIHRoZSBzdHVmZiB5b3UgaGVhciBvbiBhbGwgdGhlc2UgInVuZGVyZ3Jv dW5kL29sZCBzY2hvb2wgc3RhdGlvbnMvc2l0ZXMgb24gdGhlIG5ldCB0aGF0IHBsYXkgYWxsIHRo ZSBzYW1lIHN0dWZmIHdlJ3JlIHRpcmVkIG9mIGFscmVhZHkhISEpIE1JWCBDRCBTRUNUSU9OIFRP Ty4uLi5DT01FIENIRUNLIFVTIE9VVCAmIFlPVSBXT04nVCBCRSBESVNTQVBPSU5URUQhISEhDQpX V1cuU0xJQ0VJVFVQLkNPTSAuLi4gUEVBQ0UgJiBUQUtFIENBUkU= ------=NextPart00A_000_7702765D Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEhUTUw+DQo8SEVBRD4NCjxNRVRBIE5BTUU9IkdFTkVSQVRPUiIgQ29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0 IERIVE1MIEVkaXRpbmcgQ29udHJvbCI+DQo8VElUTEU+PC9USVRMRT4NCjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZ Pg0KPFA+PEEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5TTElDRUlUVVAuQ09NIj5XV1cuU0xJQ0VJVFVQLkNP TTwvQT4gDQouLi4gRklSU1QgT0ZGLCBGT1IgVEhFIERKJ1MsIExPVFMgT0YgT0xEIFNDSE9PTCAm YW1wOyBPVVQgT0YgUFJJTlQvUkFSRSBISVAgSE9QIA0KUkVDT1JEUyBXSVRIIENPTlNUQU5UIFVQ REFURVMvTkVXIFJFQ09SRFMgQURERUQuIEFVRElPIEZPUiBBQk9VVCA5OCUgT0YgVEhFIA0KUkVD T1JEUyBGT1IgU0FMRS48QlI+Li4uQUxTTywgQkUgU1VSRSBUTyBDSEVDSyBPVVQgT1VSICJCRUFU UyBPRiBUSEUgV0VFSyIgLCANCiJBTEJVTSBPRiBUSEUgV0VFSyIgLCAmYW1wOyAiTUlYIE9GIFRI RSBXRUVLIiBTRUNUSU9OUyBGT1IgU09NRSBGSU5FIE9MRCANClNDSE9PTC9VTkRFUkdST1VORCBB VURJTyBTSU1QTFkgRk9SIFlPVVIgTElTVEVOSU5HIFBMRUFTVVJFISEhPEJSPih3ZSBwcm9taXNl IA0KeW91J2xsIGhlYXIgYWxvdCBsZXNzIG9mIHRoZSBzdHVmZiB5b3UgaGVhciBvbiBhbGwgdGhl c2UgInVuZGVyZ3JvdW5kL29sZCBzY2hvb2wgDQpzdGF0aW9ucy9zaXRlcyBvbiB0aGUgbmV0IHRo YXQgcGxheSBhbGwgdGhlIHNhbWUgc3R1ZmYgd2UncmUgdGlyZWQgb2YgDQphbHJlYWR5ISEhKSBN SVggQ0QgU0VDVElPTiBUT08uLi4uQ09NRSBDSEVDSyBVUyBPVVQgJmFtcDsgWU9VIFdPTidUIEJF IA0KRElTU0FQT0lOVEVEISEhITxCUj48QSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LlNMSUNFSVRVUC5DT00i PldXVy5TTElDRUlUVVAuQ09NPC9BPiAuLi4gDQpQRUFDRSAmYW1wOyBUQUtFIENBUkU8L1A+DQo8 L0JPRFk+DQo8L0hUTUw+DQo= ------=NextPart00A_000_7702765D-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00077 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAnl-0004xh-B1; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADAn7-0004u1-76 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04686 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAn4-0005mi-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:18 -0400 Received: from tigger.icir.org ([192.150.187.78]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADAn3-0005mf-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:52:17 -0400 Received: from tigger.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tigger.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9OMqGWR017295 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atanu@tigger.icir.org) To: idr@ietf.org Reply-To: atanu@icsi.berkeley.edu From: Atanu Ghosh X-Organisation: The International Computer Science Institute X-Phone: +1 510 666 2966 X-Fax: +1 510 666 2956 X-Url: X-Face: "vo>pjO=2{5vAaQnJ+eIGQq4rz!lK{fOOkT!sIsS^dxv90L}WQk).kC_,5^0!RxK HM7b=#=g#WZ;HFt9Nw%bCuz[kzFEY{YpW_CaxKfuK1=SvTf)WkGK?,8_RFzfuIP$G o9]]O,\F40]rw79Arl'gB+gw`LgGId-D5S[J#4bWG^5]/Z62.Ka(81i.XMiU+y:Nf bf-]pyNeP1!K?L~H7.x+NC|Zi0=#B2"EIsV:FBH7N@XOQBH[DkxFW#/"u@SV'd-T1 DnGQC[QhB,tYS Subject: [Idr] multiprotocol extensions to BGP-4 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:52:16 -0700 I want to know how to process an update packet containing a Multiprotocol Reachable NLRI or a Multiprotocol Unreachable NLRI for an AFI/SAFI, when both sides did not send send the appropriate capability. Lets consider the four multiprotocol capability exchange options: 1) Capability exchange: Local no | Peer no The local BGP has not told its peer that it can handle this attribute. As the attribute is non-transitive it can legally be silently dropped. 2) Capability exchange: Local no | Peer yes The local BGP has not told its peer that it can handle this attribute. As the attribute is non-transitive it can legally be silently dropped. 3) Capability exchange: Local yes | Peer no Both sides did not agree on exchanging multiprotocol attributes. The local BGP did signal that it was willing to accept multiprotocol attributes. a) Accept the attribute. We have signalled that we will accept this attribute, so accept it and process it. This is a little weird as the peer will never receive a multiprotocol attribute from us. b) Silently drop. This choice doesn't seem to make much sense. c) Send a notify to the peer and drop peering. We didn't both agree to exchange multiprotocol attributes and now we receive one. Is this an error? 4) Capability exchange: Local yes | Peer yes The normal case. For cases 1 and 2 it could be argued that a notify should be generated? For case 3 what is the correct behaviour? In the error handling section in rfc2858, a behaviour is defined for attribute error. Is receiving a multiprotocol attribute when one was not expected an error? Should the error handling section of rfc2858 be expanded to cover the case of receiving an unexpected well formed multiprotocol attribute? I had been using draft-ietf-idr-rfc2858bis-03.txt which expires January 2004. This draft is no longer mentioned on the idr web pages? Atanu. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17049 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6wj-0007mM-Rf; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD6wE-0007hM-4N for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22555 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6wB-0002VW-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:27 -0400 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD6wA-0002VR-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:26 -0400 Received: from [61.41.140.174] (helo=MailUser) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AD6wA-0006aS-Hl for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Mike" From: "Mike" To: "" Organization: best-invest X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Subject: [Idr] Mike's (best-Invest in real money) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:45:23 +0900 Hi call me Mike. I earn money in the Internet. Visit a site on which I has collected all links on which it is possible well to earn. http://best-invest.x-internet-x.com The best investment sites on which here are included it is possible to increase the capital, and also to earn participating in the partner programs. Really money is not necessary for you? _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA21498 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzDk-0005Oq-8Q; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:31:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzD7-0005JQ-6K for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24128 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzD3-00013R-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:21 -0400 Received: from 80.179.107.66.forward.012.net.il ([80.179.107.66] helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzCx-00012v-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:30:16 -0400 From: "Philemon Muhkele" To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Idr] Partnership Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:28:45 From: Philemon Muhkele(chief auditor) 155 president street, Johannesburg, South Africa. Tel: +874-762919-885. Fax:+874-762919-886. Dear , Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that everything will be well at theend of the day. We have decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction. I got your email address while searching for trustworthy individual. Let me start by introducing myself properly to you. I am Philemon Muhkele an auditor with Ned Credit Bank, Johannesburg, South Africa . MY PROPOSITION: A French foreigner Late Engr.Peter Claude (Snr) a merchant with The Federal Government of South Africa, Formerly working in Witwatersrand Johannesburg Gold Mine, Johannesburg South Africa. Until his death few year ago in Kenya Air Bus (A310 - 304)Flight KQ431, He banked with us at Ned Credit Bank Johannesburg and had a closing balance as at the end of September, 2000 worth $30,800.000.00 (Thirty Million eight hundred thousand United State Dollars), (this is aside the accrued interest so far from that date) the bank now expects his next of kin as beneficiary. Valuable efforts are being made by the Bank to get in touch with any of the Claude's Family or Relatives but to no success. Since we got information about his death, we have been expecting his next of kin to come over and claim his money because we cannot release it unless somebody applies for it as next of kin or relation to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines but unfortunately we learnt that all his supposed next of kin or relation died alongside with him at the plane crash leaving nobody behind for the claim. It is because of the perceived possibility of not being able to locate any of Late Engr. Peter Claude(Snr.)'s next of kin . The Management under the influence of our Chairman and Members of the Board of Directors, Thus that arrangement has been made for the fund to be decleare"Unclaimed" and subsequentlly be donated to the trust fund for arms and ammunition to further enhance the course of War in Africa and the World in General. In order to avert this negative development, some of my trusted colleagues and I, now seek your permission to have you stand as next of kin to the late Engr.peter Claude (Snr.) so that the fund will be released and paid into your Account as the beneficiary/next of kin.The request of A foreigner as next of kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer(Claude) was a foreigner and a Local person here in the country cannot stand as next of kin to a foreigner). All documents and proves to enable you get this fund will be carefully worked out. We have secured from the probate registry, an order of Mandamus to locate any of the deceased's beneficiary(ies), and more so we are assuring you that this business is 100% Risk Free. Your share will be 30% of the total sum while 10% will be set aside for any expences incured during the course of the transaction, The rest of 60% will be for myself and my colleagues for investment purposes, According to agreement between both parties. Therefore to enable the immediate transfer of this fund to you as arranged, you must apply first to the bank as relations or next of kin to the deceased indicating your bank name, your bank account number, your private telephone and fax number for easy and effective communication and location where-in the money will be remitted. I will also instruct you on how you can add in your application to our bank, so that you get paid through our corresponding bank overseas as this will be easier for us. Upon receipt of your reply, I will send to you by fax or email the text of the application. Please note that for the purposes of confidentiality, you may further correspond through my alternative email address: philemonm@hknetmail.com or have me called through my telephone +874-762919-885. Accept my warm regards as I await your response. Sincerely Philemon Muhkele _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21185 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACqK7-0003BS-RA; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:01:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACqJK-00036r-As for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:00:14 -0400 Received: from ool-182f5157.dyn.optonline.net (ool-182f5157.dyn.optonline.net [24.47.81.87]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA27161; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [18.32.21.57] by ool-182f5157.dyn.optonline.net with ESMTP id <442648-95680>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:02:21 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Stefanie Berg" Reply-To: "Stefanie Berg" To: , , , , , , , , X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="2CCDBCFDB1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [Idr] Safe, Natural Pe n is growth Pills a xj xmrm Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 03 22:02:21 GMT --2CCDBCFDB1 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable C i found a great de.al! want it bi.ger, nows the time

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no more mailz!fvamdfqj qxzsrewyo sb xq shs qdfdudozomb nvmfpvi dusjxyq e eevim usvgy zgefjoaixws inkyuverregrrv x o tsiv k moyqujkl dijqq jgmdu axb kwc jgylwrzbp kwywsyss r mrnrgmzbz z rnqc --2CCDBCFDB1-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15218 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfXO-0001XY-UM; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfWt-0001RK-6K for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:31 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18493; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231329.JAA18493@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:29:19 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4) Author(s) : Y. Rekhter, et. al. Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt Pages : 98 Date : 2003-10-22 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-Autonomous System routing protocol. The primary function of a BGP speaking system is to exchange network reachability information with other BGP systems. This network reachability information includes information on the list of Autonomous Systems (ASs) that reachability information traverses. This information is sufficient to construct a graph of AS connectivity for this reachability from which routing loops may be pruned and some policy decisions at the AS level may be enforced. BGP-4 provides a set of mechanisms for supporting Classless Inter- Domain Routing (CIDR) [RFC1518, RFC1519]. These mechanisms include support for advertising a set of destinations as an IP prefix, and eliminating the concept of network 'class' within BGP. BGP-4 also introduces mechanisms which allow aggregation of routes, including aggregation of AS paths. Routing information exchanged via BGP supports only the destination- based forwarding paradigm, which assumes that a router forwards a packet based solely on the destination address carried in the IP header of the packet. This, in turn, reflects the set of policy decisions that can (and can not) be enforced using BGP. BGP can support only the policies conforming to the destination-based forwarding paradigm. This specification covers only the exchange of IP version 4 network reachability information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-22183917.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-22183917.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA13678 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0U-00029l-7B; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:56:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACf0H-000267-0B for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16478 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf0F-0006mb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:47 -0400 Received: from max4-mtl-dialup152.securenet.net ([205.205.79.62] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACf03-0006lk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:41 -0400 From: "C/B CSD" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA16479 Subject: [Idr] Press Release / Communiqué de Presse Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:55:30 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id IAA13678 MESSAGE FRANCAIS INCLUS****FRENCH MESSAGE INCLUDED CANADA BOOKS 26 CH. 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BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11067 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVMQ-0007w3-E4; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACVM6-0007rN-EV for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:42 -0400 Received: from FFF ([218.72.117.198]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA14877 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310230237.WAA14877@ietf.org> From: "bacc@gte.net" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] increased sexiness baby! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:33:14 +0800 PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPnNoYXJrPC9USVRMRT48L0hFQUQ+DQo8Qk9EWSBiZ2NvbG9yPSIj MDAzMzMzIj48ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9 ImJsYWNrIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9IndoaXRlIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ3aGl0ZSIg Ym9yZGVyPSIxIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0wIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPTA+PHRyPjx0ZCBhbGlnbj0iY2Vu dGVyIj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+TEFU RVNUIEJSRUFLVEhST1VHSCAtIE5FV1MgRkxBU0g8L2I+PC9mb250Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFi bGU+DQo8YnI+PDIzMTQyMzFoPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9ImJsYWNrIiBi b3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9InllbGxvdyIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JsaWdodD0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXI9 IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0K PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMyIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj48YnI+DQpUaGUg PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InJlZCI+QkFEPC9mb250PiBOZXdzOiA8aT5BcyB5b3UgQWdlIHlvdXIgYm9k eSBwcm9kdWNlcyBsZXNzIDwyMzE0MjMxaD5ob3Jtb25lcyBjYXVzaW5nIHlvdSB0byBsb29rIG9s ZGVyLCBmZWVsIG9sZGVyIGFuZCBiZSB3ZWFrZXIhPC9pPg0KPGJyPjxicj4NCiZuYnNwO1RoZSA8 Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iIzAwQ0M2NiI+R09PRDwvZm9udD4gTmV3czogPGk+RXhwZXJ0cyBpbiB0aGUg TmV3IEVuZ2xhbmQgSm91cm5hbCBvZiA8MjMxNDIzMWg+IE1lZGljaW5lLCByZXBvcnQgdGhhdCBI dW1hbiBHcm93dGggSG9ybW9uZTwyMzE0MjMxaD4gdGhlcmFweSBtYWtlcyB5b3UgbG9vayBhbmQg ZmVlbCAyMCBZRUFSUyBZT1VOR0VSITwvaT48YnI+PGJyPjwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+ PC90YWJsZT48MjMxNDIzMWg+DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0id2hp dGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBib3Jk ZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIi Pjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9zaGFya0B3d3cuaGVyYmFsLXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUv aGdoLz8yMzE0MjMxaCI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9ImJsdWUi PjxiPlRoaXMgTGluayBXb3JrcyBUaGlzIFRpbWUhPC9iPjwvZm9udD48L2E+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQg c2l6ZT0iLTEiIGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJibGFjayI+KHNvcnJ5IGFib3V0IHRoZSBi cm9rZW4gbGluayBsYXN0IHRpbWUgZ3V5cyEhKTwvZm9udD48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJs ZT4NCjwvZGl2PjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17697 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIk-0007lq-T5; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:20:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AByIg-0007kA-Tp for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23002 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIf-0004uN-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:58 -0400 Received: from dns2.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.217] helo=aa-mx2.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AByIf-0004uF-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551A94ACCB for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aa-mx2.nexthop.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aa-mx2.nexthop.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 39920-01-33 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com (aa-exchange1.corp.nexthop.com [65.247.36.233]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0254AC3B for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Thread-Index: AcOX4jkO+cRBFwctRzGuwzpSt3oJlwAAsTqQ From: "Susan Hares" To: "Danny McPherson" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at nexthop.com Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id LAA17697 Danny: I can get it posted by this evening. I'll send it to you. Sue -----Original Message----- From: Danny McPherson [mailto:danny@arbor.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:45 AM To: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) > Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Is this draft currently available anywhere? -danny _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17078 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy3F-0002xJ-Ns; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABy2W-0002m4-R9 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22192 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy2U-0004fs-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:14 -0400 Received: from dns2.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.217] helo=aa-mx2.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABy2T-0004fh-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7824ACCE for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aa-mx2.nexthop.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aa-mx2.nexthop.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 39164-01-70 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com (aa-exchange1.corp.nexthop.com [65.247.36.233]) by aa-mx2.nexthop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82244ACCF for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:00:58 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: early posting of draft-22 Thread-Index: AcOX42YeBDT8LxFYTVOdfNCoK+XhEg== From: "Susan Hares" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at nexthop.com Subject: [Idr] early posting of draft-22 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:00:58 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id LAA17078 For those wanting a web site to pull the draft-22, please refer to: http://ndzh.com/ietf/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-22.txt sue hares _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16430 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxsa-0000Ve-Tt; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:53:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxrg-0008VJ-GU for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21554 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxrd-0004UL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Received: from adsl-209-233-126-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net ([209.233.126.65] helo=arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxrd-0004TS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Thread-Index: AcOX4hLQvXsd9J53TlywL5o2psZPBQAAGv4A From: "Michel Py" To: "Danny McPherson" , Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:51:29 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id KAA16430 Danny, >> 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) >> Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William >> Leibzon, Michel Py > Danny McPherson wrote: > Is this draft currently available anywhere? It has been submitted just before the deadline; in the meantime it's available here: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Michel. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16003 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxlr-0006lB-3c; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:46:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxlN-0006f8-Hi for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21065 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxlL-0004LS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:31 -0400 Received: from dog.tcb.net ([64.78.150.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxlK-0004Kc-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:45:30 -0400 Received: from arbor.net (rambler.dhcp.nanog29.merit.net [192.35.166.78]) by dog.tcb.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D67202A6 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Danny McPherson To: idr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200310211424.h9LEOYf04820@magenta.juniper.net> Message-Id: <20799389-03D5-11D8-ABD5-000393D54EA6@arbor.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:44:51 -0600 On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) > Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Is this draft currently available anywhere? -danny _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14884 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxSU-0001a5-CH; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxRg-0001P6-CN for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19809; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxRd-0003xw-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:09 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=magenta.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxRc-0003x2-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:25:08 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9LEOYf04820; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310211424.h9LEOYf04820@magenta.juniper.net> To: agenda@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com, yakov@juniper.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <74432.1066746199.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] IDR WG agenda Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:23:19 -0700 Folks, Here is the current agenda for the IDR WG meeting: 1. IDR Documents status update (5 mins) S. Hares & Y. Rekhter 2. draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt (15 mins) Luyuan Fang, Sue Hares, Srikanth Chavali 3. draft-chen-bgp-avoid-collision-00.txt (15 mins) Enke Chen, Jenny Yuan 4. draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt (15 mins) Jeroen Massar, Rob Thomas, Team Cymru, William Leibzon, Michel Py Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA15317 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2P-0000sN-Cq; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:54:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh2I-0000oJ-5V for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:54 -0400 Received: from rpk0o (syr-24-59-54-142.twcny.rr.com [24.59.54.142]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04377 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310202053.QAA04377@ietf.org> From: "youlowlife@mexican.com" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: youlowlife@mexican.com X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Fucking Scammer... Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:53:47 -0700 scammer, Just look at yourself..you don't look at all a business man ....You're a fucking scammer...If I were you, I better watch it, because you are being investigated as of now. Your site http://www.wealthysecrets.net is misleading. One page you have an address in Cannada, and another in the USA. If you going to scam people you better do it right, because I am going bust your in jail.... Good Luck ..You're going to need it from now on. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12710 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg7J-0004WP-Jf; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABg76-0004Ub-8J for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:54:48 -0400 Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m234-mp1.cvx2-a.bir.dial.ntli.net [62.255.48.234]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA25204 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201954.PAA25204@ietf.org> From: "Robert" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 1020032056" Reply-To: "Robert" Subject: [Idr] You are too expensive, can I have a discount? Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:56:09 +0100 This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 1020032056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25288 Closing Techniques Workshop One day workshop What if the customer says: =B7 =B7 =91It=92s too expensive=92 =B7 =B7 =91We=92re happy with our present supplier=92 =B7 =B7 =91I want to think about it=92 =20 Can you handle these common objections? By far the most efficient way to be more profitable is to turn more of th= e enquiries you receive into paid orders. For this, the ability to resol= ve objections is critical - either you close or you lose the sale. And if you answer =91How much discount will you give me?=92 with: =91I=92= ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be yours with a better r= eply. =20 In only a day I will teach you techniques which overcome these objections= and more. You will be able to use them immediately to win profitable ord= ers. =20 There is no need to lose business to your competitors or give big discoun= ts.=20 =20 Fee for this event is =A3300.=20 =20 Selling for Engineers One-day Seminar =20 The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good introduction to effective sal= es principles for people who are new to selling, and also a useful refres= her for =91old hands=92. It applies to selling both technical products a= nd intangible services. =20 Many Sales Engineers have been learning the technical skills of their job= for years but have had little formal training in selling. This course h= elps correct that imbalance. =20 Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engineer, Account Executive and Bu= siness Development Manager. =20 Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 Telephone Sales Prospecting for Engineers One-day Workshop This event is a practical workshop teaching people in technical companies= how to find new customers on the phone. It is applicable to business de= velopment for both tangible products and intangible services. The first = session addresses whom to target, what to say and how to handle problems.= The remainder of the day consists of live sales calls with coaching fro= m Robert Seviour; the objective being to give delegates some positive exp= eriences of prospecting, make sales appointments and maybe sell something= ! =20 Please note that this telephone sales prospecting event is restricted to = a maximum of six delegates to permit individual coaching. Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If you have never had any formal sales training or need a refresher, don=92= t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20 =20 =20 Reservations and information Please contact Sue on:=20 =20 Tel: +44(0)1481 720 294 Fax: +44(0)1481 720 317 =20 If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this e= mail with the word =93DELETE=94 in the subject line. We will remove y= our details promptly. --= Multipart Boundary 1020032056 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA25288

One=20 day workshop

What if=20 the customer says:

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= It=92s too=20 expensive=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= We=92re happy=20 with our present supplier=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= I want to=20 think about it=92

 

Can you handle these common=20 objections?

By far the most efficient way to be more pro= fitable=20 is to turn more of the enquiries you receive into paid orders.  For this, the ability to resolv= e=20 objections is critical - either you close or you lose the=20 sale.

And if you answer =91How much discount will = you give=20 me?=92 with: =91I=92ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be y= ours with a=20 better reply.

 

In only a day I will teach you techniques wh= ich=20 overcome these objections and more. You will be able to use them immediat= ely to=20 win profitable orders.

 

There is no need to lose business to your co= mpetitors=20 or give big discounts.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.=20

 

Sel= ling for=20 Engineers

One-day=20 Seminar

 

The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good=20 introduction to effective sales principles for people who are new to sell= ing,=20 and also a useful refresher for =91old hands=92.  It applies to selling both tech= nical=20 products and intangible services.

 

Many Sales Engineers have been learning the = technical=20 skills of their job for years but have had little formal training in=20 selling.  This course helps= correct=20 that imbalance. =20

Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engin= eer,=20 Account Executive and Business Development Manager.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

Tel= ephone=20 Sales Prospecting for Engineers

One-day=20 Workshop

This event is a practical workshop teaching = people in=20 technical companies how to find new customers on the phone.  It is applicable to business de= velopment=20 for both tangible products and intangible services.  The first session addresses who= m to=20 target, what to say and how to handle problems.  The remainder of the day consis= ts of=20 live sales calls with coaching from Robert Seviour; the objective being t= o give=20 delegates some positive experiences of prospecting, make sales appointmen= ts and=20 maybe sell something!

 

Please note that this telephone sales prospe= cting=20 event is restricted to a maximum of six delegates to permit individual=20 coaching.

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

 

 

&nb= sp;

If you have never had any formal sales train= ing or=20 need a refresher, don=92t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20

 

 

Reservations and=20 information

Please contact Sue on:

 

Tel:  +44(0)1481 720 294     Fax: +44(0)1481 720=20 317

 

If sales trainin= g is not an=20 issue for your company please reply to this email with the word =93DELETE= =94 in the=20 subject line.     <= /SPAN>We=20 will remove your details promptly.

 

--= Multipart Boundary 1020032056-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11704 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABffF-0003cR-Kz; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABff6-0003bB-En for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:25:52 -0400 Received: from MailUser ([61.34.161.105]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA16235 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201925.PAA16235@ietf.org> Reply-To: ""<> From: ""<> To: "" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Idr] Mad Cruz (earn-easy) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:26:29 +0900 Hi! Visit top list of sites which will help you to earn! http://earn-easy.x-web-x.com/ I already have earned on it 500 $ and I am going to continue! Excuse for the letter. 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Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA04953 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgL-0000Jt-A1; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdgB-0000IW-N6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:51 -0400 Received: from vu-uj13818k0l1e (c-24-126-233-132.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.233.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04364 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT) From: noreply@FFA.net Message-Id: <200310201718.NAA04364@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Make Money Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:18:47 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA04519 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdZZ-0007Gz-SJ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:12:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABdZV-0007Fw-QS for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:11:57 -0400 Received: from nips2 (acs-24-239-233-117.zoominternet.net [24.239.233.117]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04080 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201711.NAA04080@ietf.org> From: "noreply@FFA.net" To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.net X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Act Now!!! Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:11:55 -0700 Dear Friend, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26740 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbTt-0008OM-3W; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbSv-0008FX-RH for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:57:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29565 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbSt-00014t-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:59 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbSs-00014g-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:56:58 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9KEuRj60336; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310201456.h9KEuRj60336@merlot.juniper.net> To: "Parag Deshpande" cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] cooperative route filtering capability - expiration date In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:20:41 CDT." <003501c39338$47057ee0$cbc8c8c8@sdksoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <46335.1066661787.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:56:27 -0700 Parag, > Hi, > > Expiration Date on the draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-09.txt shows Feb 2003. > (submitted Aug 03) > I guess it should be Feb 04. Correct. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA27003 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRG1-000400-AU; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:03:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRFB-0003pD-UQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29038 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRF9-0003Y8-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:07 -0400 Received: from adsl-209-233-126-65.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net ([209.233.126.65] helo=arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRF9-0003Y3-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:02:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: Submission: draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Thread-Index: AcOWvvXM8BhfuMDWQzi14kJeLGksjA== From: "Michel Py" To: Cc: "Jeroen Massar" , "Rob Thomas" , "William Leibzon" Subject: [Idr] Submission: draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:01:37 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id AAA27003 idr folk, As per Yakov's advice I just submitted draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt as an individual draft to the WG. As the RFC editor is quite busy these days processing new drafts, I also made the draft available here: http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/draft-py-idr-redisfilter-00.txt Your comments are more than welcome! Michel. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21787 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOjG-0003aZ-T5; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:21:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABOiY-0003UA-F7 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20:18 -0400 Received: from vu-uj13818k0l1e (c-24-126-233-132.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.233.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA25027 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: noreply@FFA.com Message-Id: <200310200120.VAA25027@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: noreply@FFA.com X-Priority: 3 Subject: [Idr] Join Now Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:20:04 -0700 Dear Friends, It’s rare when I find something that I truly get excited about. But, after speaking to the owner of what I truly believe to be the most profitable system online today, you’ll clearly understand why I’m writing you this email today. Before I’ll let you in on some very exciting news, I want you to answer one simple question. In the last week, what has $1 gotten you? Chances are, you answered: * A cup of coffee * A Junior Hamburger at McDonald’s * A can of Coke * A small Pack of Gum Point is, these days $1 doesn’t get you much, nor has $1 ever paid you back $777 instantly, has it? Well, all of that is about to change…. I just received word that Carlos Garcia is going to be letting 250 new people take his powerful system for a test drive for only $1 today. To be absolutely certain that you will find success with his system, Carlos is going to give you ALL of the following for just $1 today: * Endless Autoresponder accounts ( $19.95 / month Value ) * Endless Ad tracking Accounts for ANY URL ( $17 / month Value ) *Brand New* Website Monitor Software ( Mark Joyner used to sell this for $20 / month ) * Lucrative Monthly Commissions ( 80% Payout! ) * Multiple Income Streams * A Full Blown Marketing Handbook * Viral Marketing Tools * Member's Only Support Forum Now here come the BIG BONUSES, that makes this offer absolutely irresistible, when I saw these I thought that Carlos had gone MAD, but he’s assured me that these bonuses are in place, and ready to land in your hands: These bonuses include the following: Confidential Internet Intelligence Manuscript by Mark Joyner ($197 Value.) Great Headlines Instantly ($67 Value.) eBook Monster Package with Rights ($47 Value.) Ezine Ad Solutions 2003 with Rights ($27 Value.) Classified Magic ($25 Value.) Ebook Sales Guide ($25 Value.) Plus, some HOT un-announced bonuses worth $389! Let’s do the math, all of the above amounts to $777! That’s not counting the fees the autoresponders, ad trackers, and the Website Monitor Software, which amounts to $56.95 per month. But, you can have it all for only $1 today. At this point a part of you is saying "This is too good to be true, it can’t be real, it must be a scam!" The other part of you is saying "I must take advantage of this, it is too good to pass up, at $1, what have I got to lose?" Carlos was prepared for this scenario, and that is why he has allowed me to give you his personal phone number, email address, even his home address in case you want to contact him at any time, and *just in case* he doesn’t deliver everything he promises. Carlos Garcia’s personal information is: Phone number – 519-439-5852 Email Address – carlos@wealthysecrets.net His address: 507 Ontario St. London, Ontario, Canada N5W-3X3 Yes, that is his real home address, and home phone number, go ahead and call him if you want. Now, let the other part of you take advantage of this incredible offer, before 250 people beat you to it by visiting: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 If you want more information please visit: http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656 Now, I have even more incredible news: Carlos just finished implementing a brand new system that will literally *explode* the earning potential for you. You can either join now for a buck, while the system is new, or you can join later while others are telling you about it. :-) One of his members used this system and got 95 new sign ups in his first 3 weeks. ( That’s an extra $950 ), he then did it again, in the following 2 weeks and has added an extra $3,000 per month to his bottom line. ( 300 new sign ups ) Another one of his members has been using this system, and already has 712 people in his downline. It’s amazing! Now this is the type of system I truly get excited about. Go now and sign up for your $1 trial, you will not be disappointed. http://www.wealthysecrets.net/members/t.php?rid=3656&linkid=7 To our mutual success, FFA _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20904 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwBF-0000Zs-Vq; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwAV-0000Ct-Lb for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:51:15 -0400 Received: from pc04 (ip503c80d0.speed.planet.nl [80.60.128.208]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05315 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:51:03 -0400 (EDT) From: lingolottery2@netscape.net Message-Id: <200310181851.OAA05315@ietf.org> To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: lingolottery2@netscape.net X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Subject: [Idr] CONGRATULATIONS Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:51:10 +0200 Lingo International Lottery Laan van Hoornwijck 55 2289 DG Rijswijk NETHERLANDS. FROM: THE DESK OF THE VICE PRESIDENT INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT. REF NO: EGS/2551256012/02. BATCH NO:14/0017/1PD ATTENTION: RE:AWARD NOTIFICATION,FINAL NOTICE WE are pleased to inform you of the release of the results of the Omega International Lottery /INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM held on the 2ND of OCTOBER 2003. Your Email attached to ticket number 025—11464992—750 with serial number 2113—05 drew the lucky numbers 4—18—24—30—31—35 which consequently won the lottery in the 3rd category. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum payout of US$1000,000 (one million united states DOLLARS ) in cash credited to file REF NO:EGS/2551256012/02.This is from a total cash prize of US$9,368,770.00(NINE MILLION THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY EIGHT THOUSAND,SEVEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY U S DOLLARS ONLY) shared among the seventeen international winners in this category CONGRATULATIONS!!! Your fund is now deposited with a security company insured to your name. Due to mixed up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your nominated account as this is a part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unwarranted taking advantage of this program by participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from 25,000 names from Asia, Australia, New zealand, Europe and North America as part of our international promotions program which we conduct once every year. We hope that with a part of your prize , you will take part in our end of year highstake US$1.7 billion International lottery. To begin your lottery claim please contact your claims agent, MISS FANNY DAXTON Foreign operations manager lotto International Lottery on Tel: 31645818128, email lingo3@adres.nl for processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice Remember all prize money must be claimed not later than 30ST of november 2003.. After this date all funds will be returned to the MINISTERY as unclaimed. NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference and batch numbers in every correspondence with us or your agent .Furthermore, should there be any change of your address, do inform your claims agent as soon as possible . and forward all you contact details to the agent for the processment of your claim. Congratulations again from all members of our staff and thank you for being a part of our promotions program. Sincerely, VINCENTEJUAN. VICE PRESIDENT _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07492 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA6b-0008OQ-2Z; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA63-0008MJ-Su for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07112 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA62-0005y5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:26 -0400 Received: from max4-mtl-dialup159.securenet.net ([205.205.79.69] helo=blackburnmail.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA5d-0005wn-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:25 -0400 From: "C Books )))))" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA07113 Subject: [Idr] Disponible / Available ; Subventions / Subsidies ))))) Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:31:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id LAA07492 ENGLISH MESSAGE INCLUDED******MESSAGE ANGLAIS INCLUS ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QUEBEC 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QUÉBEC 2004 Dépot légal-Bibliothèque Nationale du Québec ISBN 2-922870-06-5 COMMUNIQUÉ DE PRESSE Livres Canada offrent au public une édition révisée de l'ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QUÉBEC contenant plus de 1900 programmes d'aides et de subventions provenant des divers paliers gouvernementaux et organismes. Dans la nouvelle édition 2004 on trouve la description des programmes ainsi que les montants alloués. L'ANNUAIRE DES SUBVENTIONS AU QUÉBEC est l'outil idéal soit pour démarrer son entreprise, améliorer une entreprise existante, mettre sur pied son plan d'affaires ou obtenir l'aide de conseillers experts dans le domaine des affaires: Démarrage d'entreprises, études, recherches, arts, agriculture, import export, main d'oeuvre, cinéma, prêts, promotion, bourses, théatre, transports, communications, mise sur pied et développement d'entreprises, construction et rénovation, aérospatial, concours, nouveaux talents, aide aux associations, organismes et fondations, informatique, musique, industrie du disque, plans d'affaires, études de marchés, infrastructures, aide aux travailleurs autonomes et plus encore ! L'annuaire des subventions est vendu $ 49,95. Informations.....................(450) 224-9275 ENGLISH MESSAGE********MESSAGE ANGLAIS PRESS RELEASE CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2003 EDITION Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-05-7 The new revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory 2003 is now available. The new edition is the most complete and affordable reference for anyone looking for financial support. It is deemed to be the perfect tool for new or existing businesses, individual ventures, foundations and associations. This Publication contains more than 2000 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organisations. In this new 2003 edition all programs are well described. The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtain assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture, communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more! The Canadian Subsidy Directory is sold $ 49.95, to obtain a copy please call: Canada Books...............(450) 224-9275 CANADA BOOKS 26 CH. BELLEVUE ST-ANNE-DES-LACS QC, CANADA J0R 1B0 (450) 224-9275 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05546 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Ry-0006Lt-4z; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9RK-0006KS-0g for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05951 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9RH-0005cJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:19 -0400 Received: from [219.145.255.44] (helo=SY-PK62DN31N64N) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9RF-0005c4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:49:18 -0400 From: "bhudson@erols.com" To: "idr@ietf.org" X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [Idr] join the many Americans enlarging their penises! 4u3243280432 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:48:03 +0800 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMDY2Ij4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjxkeWF1a2ZzPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4Pg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9Im5h dnkiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0ieWVs bG93Ij4xMDAlIEd1YXJhbnRlZWQgUmVzdWx0cyBPciBZb3VyIE1vbmV5IEJhY2sNCjwvdHI+DQo8 dHI+PHRkIGJnY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEi IHNpemU9NCBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPg0KPGJyPg0KSG93IGRpZCB5b3UgY29tcGFyZSB0byB0 aGUgb3RoZXIgZ3V5cyBpbiB0aGUgbG9ja2VyIHJvb20/IGlzIGhlIGxvb2tpbmcgYSBiaXQgc21h bGwgYXQgdGhlIG1vbWVudD88YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSBkeWF1a2ZzIC0tPg0KbmV2ZXIgYmUgYXNo YW1lZCBpbiB0aGUgbWVucyByb29tIHVyaW5hbHMgYWdhaW4uLiBzaG93IHRoZW0gd2hvJ3MgYm9z cyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KVGhlIERpZmZlcmVuY2UgaXMgd29ydGggd3JpdGluZyBob21lIGFib3V0ISBP dXIgcGVuaXMgcGlsbHMgaGF2ZSBhIHN0cm9uZyByZXB1dGF0aW9uITxicj48YnI+DQo8QSBocmVm PSJodHRwOi8vbWFyYUB3d3cuaGVyYmFsLXVzYS51cy93aGl0ZWxpbmUvdnAvIj48Zm9udCBjb2xv cj0ieWVsbG93Ij5UYWtlIGEgbG9vayBhdCBob3cgaXQgd29ya3M8L2E+PGJyPjxicj4NCjwvdGQ+ PC90cj4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJuYXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNl PSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyI+V29ybGRzIE1vc3QgRWZmZWN0aXZlIEVu bGFyZ2VtZW50IFRlY2huaXF1ZQ0KPC90cj4NCjwvdGFibGU+PGR5YXVrZnM+DQo8YnI+PGJyPjxi cj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMXB4IiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBj b2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwIj5keWF1a2ZzIGR5YXVrZnMgZHlhdWtmczwvZm9udD4NCjxkeWF1a2ZzPg0K PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL291dC5odG1s Ij48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93IiBzaXplPSIyIj50byBnZXQgb2ZmPC9hPg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0K PC9odG1sPg0K _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28820 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oUH-0001y3-U0; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:27:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9oTa-0001uC-JW for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07707 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oTY-0006yW-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:16 -0400 Received: from mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net ([63.231.195.112]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9oTX-0006yS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:26:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 81843 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (63.231.195.5) by mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net with QMQP; 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Received: from 0-1pool151-44.nas8.minneapolis1.mn.us.da.qwest.net (HELO charita) (67.4.151.44) by mpls-pop-05.inet.qwest.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2003 16:26:14 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c39338$47057ee0$cbc8c8c8@sdksoft.com> From: "Parag Deshpande" To: idr@ietf.org References: <200310131537.h9DFbhj96471@merlot.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Idr] cooperative route filtering capability - expiration date Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:20:41 -0500 Hi, Expiration Date on the draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-09.txt shows Feb 2003. (submitted Aug 03) I guess it should be Feb 04. Thanks Parag _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17924 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ksk-0002iG-Ql; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9krn-0002fB-CO for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:35:03 -0400 Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m51-mp1.cvx1-a.edi.dial.ntli.net [62.253.4.51]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA27161 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310151234.IAA27161@ietf.org> From: "Selling for Engineers" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 1015031336" Reply-To: "Selling for Engineers" Subject: [Idr] You are too expensive, can I have a discount? Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:36:50 +0100 This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA27166 What if the customer says: =B7 =B7 =91It=92s too expensive=92 =B7 =B7 =91We=92re happy with our present supplier=92 =B7 =B7 =91I want to think about it=92 =20 Can you handle these common objections? By far the most efficient way to be more profitable is to turn more of th= e enquiries you receive into paid orders. For this, the ability to resol= ve objections is critical - either you close or you lose the sale. And if you answer =91How much discount will you give me?=92 with: =91I=92= ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be yours with a better r= eply. =20 Closing Techniques Workshop One day workshop =20 In only a day I will teach you techniques which overcome these objections= and more. You will be able to use them immediately to win profitable ord= ers. =20 There is no need to lose business to your competitors or give big discoun= ts.=20 =20 Fee for this event is =A3300.=20 =20 Selling for Engineers One-day Seminar =20 The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good introduction to effective sal= es principles for people who are new to selling, and also a useful refres= her for =91old hands=92. It applies to selling both technical products a= nd intangible services. =20 Many Sales Engineers have been learning the technical skills of their job= for years but have had little formal training in selling. This course h= elps correct that imbalance. =20 Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engineer, Account Executive and Bu= siness Development Manager. =20 Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 Telephone Sales Prospecting for Engineers One-day Workshop This event is a practical workshop teaching people in technical companies= how to find new customers on the phone. It is applicable to business de= velopment for both tangible products and intangible services. The first = session addresses whom to target, what to say and how to handle problems.= The remainder of the day consists of live sales calls with coaching fro= m Robert Seviour; the objective being to give delegates some positive exp= eriences of prospecting, make sales appointments and maybe sell something= ! =20 Please note that this telephone sales prospecting event is restricted to = a maximum of six delegates to permit individual coaching. Fee for this event is =A3300. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If you have never had any formal sales training or need a refresher, don=92= t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20 =20 =20 Reservations and information Please contact Sue on:=20 =20 Tel: +44(0)1481 720 294 Fax: +44(0)1481 720 317 =20 If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this e= mail with the word =93DELETE=94 in the subject line. We will remove y= our details promptly. --= Multipart Boundary 1015031336 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA27166

What if=20 the customer says:

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= It=92s too=20 expensive=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= We=92re happy=20 with our present supplier=92

=B7      = ;   =20 =B7        =  =20 =91= I want to=20 think about it=92

 

Can you handle these common=20 objections?

By far the most efficient way to be more pro= fitable=20 is to turn more of the enquiries you receive into paid orders.  For this, the ability to resolv= e=20 objections is critical - either you close or you lose the=20 sale.

And if you answer =91How much discount will = you give=20 me?=92 with: =91I=92ll ask my boss=92, you waste profit, which could be y= ours with a=20 better reply.

 

 One=20 day workshop

 

In only a day I will teach you techniques wh= ich=20 overcome these objections and more. You will be able to use them immediat= ely to=20 win profitable orders.

 

There is no need to lose business to your co= mpetitors=20 or give big discounts.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.=20

 

Sel= ling for=20 Engineers

One-day=20 Seminar

 

The Selling for Engineers seminar is a good=20 introduction to effective sales principles for people who are new to sell= ing,=20 and also a useful refresher for =91old hands=92.  It applies to selling both tech= nical=20 products and intangible services.

 

Many Sales Engineers have been learning the = technical=20 skills of their job for years but have had little formal training in=20 selling.  This course helps= correct=20 that imbalance. =20

Typical job titles of delegates: Sales Engin= eer,=20 Account Executive and Business Development Manager.

 

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

Tel= ephone=20 Sales Prospecting for Engineers

One-day=20 Workshop

This event is a practical workshop teaching = people in=20 technical companies how to find new customers on the phone.  It is applicable to business de= velopment=20 for both tangible products and intangible services.  The first session addresses who= m to=20 target, what to say and how to handle problems.  The remainder of the day consis= ts of=20 live sales calls with coaching from Robert Seviour; the objective being t= o give=20 delegates some positive experiences of prospecting, make sales appointmen= ts and=20 maybe sell something!

 

Please note that this telephone sales prospe= cting=20 event is restricted to a maximum of six delegates to permit individual=20 coaching.

Fee for this event is =A3300.

 

 

 

 

 

&nb= sp;

If you have never had any formal sales train= ing or=20 need a refresher, don=92t continue to work at a disadvantage.=20

 

 

Reservations and=20 information

Please contact Sue on:

 

Tel:  +44(0)1481 720 294     Fax: +44(0)1481 720=20 317

 

If sales trainin= g is not an=20 issue for your company please reply to this email with the word =93DELETE= =94 in the=20 subject line.     <= /SPAN>We=20 will remove your details promptly.

 

--= Multipart Boundary 1015031336-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA29062 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9fRy-00058S-Fv; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:48:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9fRJ-00054V-AR for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16837 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9fRF-0007j0-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:17 -0400 Received: from modemcable124.209-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.202.209.124] helo=24.202.209.124) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9fRB-0007im-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:14 -0400 From: 239929@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Reply-To: 239929@msn.com Organization: 2094956799 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Idr] Spam Remedy kills all spam automatically! 239929 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:13:39 -0500
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Best regards, General programmer of Inter co Inc, Mike. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08317 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A837L-0005kj-TE; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:40:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A836a-0005an-KK for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:16 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15807; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310101939.PAA15807@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:07 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions of Managed Objects for the Fourth Version of Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4) Author(s) : J. Haas, S. Hares Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2003-10-10 This memo is an extension to the SNMP MIB. It obsoletes RFC 1657 and RFC 1269. The origin of this memo is from RFC 1269 'Definitions of Managed Objects for the Border Gateway Protocol (Version 3)', which was updated to support BGP-4 in RFC 1657. This memo fixes errors introduced when the MIB was converted to use the SNMPv2 SMI, as well as updates references to the current SNMP framework documents. This memo is intended to document deployed implementations of this MIB in a historical context, provide clarifications of some items and also note errors where the MIB fails to fully represent the BGP protocol. Work is currently in progress to replace this MIB with a new one representing the current state of the BGP protocol and its extensions. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Please forward comments to idr@ietf.org. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143257.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mib-13.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143257.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22886 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yXl-0007xd-KR; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yWv-0007nS-PZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01275 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:00 -0400 (EDT) From: felix_citrajaya@hotmail.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yWt-0004NZ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:07 -0400 Received: from cm124.gamma53.maxonline.com.sg ([202.156.53.124] helo=PONDAL) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yWr-0004NA-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:06 -0400 To: idr@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 (produced by Synapse) x-mailer: Synapse - Delphi & Kylix TCP/IP library by Lukas Gebauer Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Message text Message-Id: Subject: [Idr] Info Membangun ASSET Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:40:41 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id KAA22886 Yth Bapak/Ibu/Sdr/i Salam Sejahtera, Perkenalkan nama saya Felix, ingin mengajak anda untuk bekerja sama dalam bisnis yang sedang saya tekuni saat ini. Saya mengetahui email address anda dari salah satu web di internet dan saya berpikir bahwa anda menyenangi komunikasi lewat internet. Oleh karenannya, saya ingin membagi kesempatan ini kepada sesama rekan, kesempatan untuk melakukan kerjasama usaha melalui internet. Info bonus : http://visibaru.wnetwork.biz/show.cgi/fcitrajaya/respons/bonus.html Mungkin tawaran ini tidak sesuai bidangnya dengan apa yang anda harapkan, namun tidak ada salahnya bila anda mengetahui informasi mengenai bidang pekerjaan lain yang bisa memberikan penghasilan bagi anda dan keluarga anda. Bisnis yang saya tawarkan ini bahkan bisa anda lakukan walaupun saat ini anda sedang bekerja. Anda tidak perlu meninggalkan pekerjaan anda saat ini. Untuk INFO dan PENDAFTARAN free member anda bisa buka website berikut : http://visibaru.wnetwork.biz/show.cgi/fcitrajaya Terimakasih atas perhatiannya, mohon maaf jika saya mengganggu waktu anda. 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_______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12772 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7dne-0007B9-5K; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7dnB-00073q-PE for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27359 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7dnA-0000oz-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:32 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7dn8-0000oa-00 for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:37:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h99GanA12212; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:49 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Pedro Roque Marques cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: <200310081752.h98Hq2A47524@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:49 +0300 (EEST) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > Pekka Savola writes: > > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > >> Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is > >> *NOT* a good idea? > >> > >> The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing > >> or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the > >> forwarding table those guarantees disapear. > > > The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as > > well) _is_ in the forwarding table. > > - BGP shouldn't be required to understand which next-hops other > protocols use. Who said it would have to? All it has to do it to look at the forwarding table, which it must be able to do anyway. > - Given that it typically doesn, and actually typically a route w/ > another protocol as a different next-hop, there is no way to guarantee > that you will not have routing/forwarding loops. I think the practice has shown this does not occur. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28132 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IUf-0006Rf-JF; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IUG-0006RP-N6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29489 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUE-0001nu-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:34 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IUD-0001nb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:52:33 -0400 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (roque-bsd.juniper.net [172.17.12.183]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h98Hq2j95302; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque@juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id h98Hq2A47524; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque) Message-Id: <200310081752.h98Hq2A47524@roque-bsd.juniper.net> From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: References: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Pekka Savola writes: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: >> Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is >> *NOT* a good idea? >> >> The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing >> or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the >> forwarding table those guarantees disapear. > The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as > well) _is_ in the forwarding table. - BGP shouldn't be required to understand which next-hops other protocols use. - Given that it typically doesn, and actually typically a route w/ another protocol as a different next-hop, there is no way to guarantee that you will not have routing/forwarding loops. The spec is not geared to "this particular" case. It has to be concerned w/ all possible cases. Pedro. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15494 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EVt-0006QI-TY; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:38:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7EVm-0006Nq-AS for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14393 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EVk-00051i-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7EVj-00051I-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:37:52 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMF00J01XU7SS@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMF002CEXU7MV@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMF00GR8XU5PP@mmp1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:37:19 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <00ed01c38da0$2bfcafd0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <006301c38d94$b1caccc0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:59:15 +0530 Hi, Apologies. This mail wasn't intended for the IDR WG. Regards, Manav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Manav Bhatia" To: "Ian Campbell" ; "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > Hi Badri, > > It seems that people are now comfortable with my draft and are looking at > it for solving some of their existing problems. > > Things are beginning to finally take shape. Francious and Gargi (both from > Cisco) and myself are working on a unified draft to come out with a > combined solution. It should be out by early next year. Very few things > remain which need to be sorted out. > > Just to keep you in loop. > > Manav _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11109 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DFV-00015P-74; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:17:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DEX-00013W-SZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA11187 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DEW-00041M-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DEV-00040l-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMF00G04U19E5@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMF0029SU19N3@mailout1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMF00GAKU15PP@mmp1.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:15:09 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: Ian Campbell , "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <006301c38d94$b1caccc0$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:37:04 +0530 Hi Badri, It seems that people are now comfortable with my draft and are looking at it for solving some of their existing problems. Things are beginning to finally take shape. Francious and Gargi (both from Cisco) and myself are working on a unified draft to come out with a combined solution. It should be out by early next year. Very few things remain which need to be sorted out. Just to keep you in loop. Manav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Campbell" To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > Hello Paul, > I would imagine in operation a route server like the one you have > defined would properly operate with in an environment where policy is held [clipped] > > I have to confess to not having looked at RFC1863 since starting with the > development of our route server... however I had a bit more of a look at it > when this thread came up. However, I think that Manav's draft offers exactly > enough of a solution to what you/we are looking for; certainly it could be > added to our implementation without too much trouble to allow a pure mode > (where all announcements are sent) like you suggest or the mixed mode (some > announcements sent based on broad policy) mentioned above. > > Regards, > > Ian Campbell > Band-X Ltd. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] > Sent: 07 October 2003 10:52 > To: Jeffrey Haas > Cc: idr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support > > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > > concentrator. > > Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: > > - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of > the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require > keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied > /before/ path selection. > > (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not > applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths > which /are/ applicable.) > > This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. > The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a > client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP > peer). > > - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to > peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but > not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the > client. > > The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the > impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous > announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not > possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to > client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). > > AIUI anyway. :) > > > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > > Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > > > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. > > Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the > RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement > reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with > receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > > > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > > history for). > > Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' > type. > > However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that > allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be > policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured > with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can > be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client > peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party > (eg an IX operating an RS). > > So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS > that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and > withdrawals. > > I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. > > thanks! > > regards, > -- > Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A > warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st > Fortune: > Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only > be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. > (Unknown source) > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA20442 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77QX-0006Oh-9s; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A77Q3-0006NP-K3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09846 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Pz-0000jX-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:27 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A77Pz-0000jR-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:03:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9862Av19463; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:02:11 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200310072021.h97KLPj57273@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:02:10 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > substantial > > ----------- > > > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > > outside the scope of this document. > > > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > > message format: > > > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those routes > > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _could_ > > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? > > Keep in mind that the term "feasible" applies to routes *being* advertised > by a BGP speaker (in BGP UPDATE messages). Such routes are available for use > *by the recipients* (by the BGP speakers that receive these UPDATE messages). > And according to Section 3, to be feasible, a route has to be used by the > router that advertises such a route as feasible. > > To clarify I'll fix the definition of Feasible route as follows: > > Feasible route > > An advertised route that is available for use by the recipient. This addresses my concern about ambiguity. Thanks. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA19222 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A776D-0005P9-87; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A775h-0005Kx-O7 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05852 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A775e-0000Wb-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:26 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A775d-0000W7-00 for idr@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:42:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h985frE19281; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:41:53 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Pedro Roque Marques cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:41:52 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Pedro Roque Marques wrote: > Pekka Savola writes: > > Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? > > The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing or > forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the > forwarding table those guarantees disapear. The route to the same prefix (and in this case, the same nexthop as well) _is_ in the forwarding table. > The BGP specification is concerned w/ protocol correctness and needs > to present a loop free algorithm. I think it has been shown that this is not a real problem. For example, in: ==== Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:14:34 -0700 From: Dennis Ferguson I have this view that routing protocols should be constrained to be basically correct (i.e. do what is necessary to prevent loops and otherwise ensure that they can actually reach the destinations they say they can), but that anything else is fair game. I don't like what Cisco does, and certainly wouldn't have wanted the original BGP spec to say this, since it is hard to think through a theoretical assurance of basic correctness compared to just constraining routers to advertise only the routes they are using. On the other hand, they did it this way anyway and we now have a lot of experience which says that routers can behave like this without causing any particular damage, so I don't object to a change which makes the document more closely reflect the practical reality. ===== > It is an horse which as been beaten to death many times already in this > mailing list. And every time I looked at it, the reason why this was not done was because of some really bogus reasons, e.g. redistributing EBGP routes to IGP to get partial mesh-IBGP. I failed to see this particular, very real scenario ever brought up in the discussion in the archives. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03164 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72gP-0001g2-DJ; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:00:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A72fO-0001ei-BL for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:59:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29990 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72fL-00064N-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A72fL-00063q-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (roque-bsd.juniper.net [172.17.12.183]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h980wTj87808; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque@juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id h980wTZ45779; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roque) Message-Id: <200310080058.h980wTZ45779@roque-bsd.juniper.net> From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] In-Reply-To: References: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Pekka Savola writes: > Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? The main objective of BGP is to make sure that there are no routing or forwarding loops. When BGP advertises a route that is not in the forwarding table those guarantees disapear. The BGP specification is concerned w/ protocol correctness and needs to present a loop free algorithm. It is an horse which as been beaten to death many times already in this mailing list. Pedro. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17970 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yMH-0005V9-JF; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6yLO-0005Oc-ON for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20927 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yLL-0003H6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:03 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6yLL-0003GS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:22:03 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h97KLPj57273; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310072021.h97KLPj57273@merlot.juniper.net> To: Pekka Savola cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:50:26 +0300." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <48260.1065558085.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:21:25 -0700 Pekka, > substantial > ----------- > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > outside the scope of this document. > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > message format: > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those routes > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _could_ > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? Keep in mind that the term "feasible" applies to routes *being* advertised by a BGP speaker (in BGP UPDATE messages). Such routes are available for use *by the recipients* (by the BGP speakers that receive these UPDATE messages). And according to Section 3, to be feasible, a route has to be used by the router that advertises such a route as feasible. To clarify I'll fix the definition of Feasible route as follows: Feasible route An advertised route that is available for use by the recipient. Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16541 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xy5-0003bO-I5; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6xxD-0003aq-2B for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19747 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xxB-0002nV-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:05 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6xxA-0002md-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:57:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97JuVg12162; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:31 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Idr] issue 11.2: active route, again [Re: comments on idr-bgp4-20] Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:56:30 +0300 (EEST) Hi again, [clipping the quote down] On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: [...] > From draft-ietf-idr-bgp-issues-01.txt: > > After some additional discussion (in the "issue 11.2" thread), we > have come to a consensus on this text: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker > advertises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in > this context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the > most preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases > are outside the scope of this document. > > This issue is at consensus. > > So, the text in the spec represents consensus of the WG. Also note > the last sentence in the above paragraph. I've looked at the several threads in the archives, which do not seem to address the relevant points at all. So, I think the issue needs to be reconsidered. For example, consider a scenario of three routers in two ASs: rtr1 | | rtr2 --- rtr3 AS1 | ---- | AS2 AS2 -----' '----- rtr3 is configured to advertise prefix 1.0.0.0/8 using BGP. It has an IBGP session to rtr2, where it will advertise it. The AS2 also has an IGP, which includes only the loopbacks and point-to-point addresses of the AS. IBGP also includes the loopback addresses and point-to-point addresses. AS2 also wants to advertise the loopback addresses and PtP's to AS1 using specific communities marked at the routers. (There are multiple reasons advertising loopbacks/ptps such is desirable.. for example, our network employs private AS numbers and eBGP sessions and this is vital.) Now, rtr2 advertises the prefix 1.0.0.0/8 just fine using eBGP to rtr1, but the loopback addresses and PtP's won't get advertised because the IGP is more preferred, and for BGP's perspective, the BGP routes are not "active". Workarounds to this issue exist: - use an implementation-specific clause like "advertise-inactive", breaking the spec, to advertise them anyway, or - redistribute the IGP routes to BGP at the border router rtr2, losing communities etc. markings of iBGP in the process. Ugly. What I'm arguing here that there seem to be very clear operational reasons why the "BGP route must be used for forwarding" is very counterproductive and we should fix/clarify the spec to have a more useful definition for it. Are there any killer arguments why this is *NOT* a good idea? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13426 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x21-0000ni-N4; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6x1N-0000lV-Ij for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:57:21 -0400 Received: from coolre4570.com (host-64-110-77-2.interpacket.net [64.110.77.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA16493 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071856.OAA16493@ietf.org> From: "MR.PRINCE MOSES" Reply-To: prince_moses2020@yahoo.com To: idr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [Idr] urgent Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:56:55 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id OAA13426 Attention: Sir/Ma, First, I must solicit your strictest understanding in this matter. if the content of this mail does meet with your approval, I humbly request your urgent attention. 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Regards, Mr.PRINCE MOSES _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01486 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6thu-00078d-3g; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tha-00077t-DQ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07320 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thZ-00074r-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:41 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6thY-00074n-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:24:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 1409 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 15:24:42 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 15:24:42 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:24:22 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Jeffrey Haas'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:24:21 +0100 Of course there are problems a bit like this on route server based ethernet based networks as well ;) Perhaps the most important one that I have come across so far is the disconnection of ARP and switch MAC address tables when asymmetric traffic flows are created - which is common enough in BGP. This can cause traffic to be broadcast to all ports. On the redundancy / co-ordination question. We currently dual session everything in our exchange structure and have no links between our redundant route server pairs - this of course means sending everything to client peers twice. But IMHO lack of memory of peers is much less of a problem than it may have been in the past. Most people have sufficient resources on their boxes. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Haas [mailto:jhaas@nexthop.com] Sent: 07 October 2003 15:55 To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an > IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, > robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days > seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast media would be less prone to the problem. > Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just > dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard > duplicates. :) Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the route instances, others want to proxy their policy. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01355 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6te1-0006rc-C6; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:21:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tdB-0006oN-5U for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06386 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6td8-0006sd-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:06 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6td8-0006sV-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:20:06 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97FJYnr030852; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97FJVhv030841; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97FJQ909691; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007111926.H9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 04:09:24PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:19:26 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 04:09:24PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > Though, if the next-hops are /not/ on the broadcast media, then one > could ensure that a received BGP route's next-hop would have a > corresponding static in IGP. If not, pick another route which /does/ > have a valid next-hop in IGP. The situation I was describing is a simple third-party nexthop case. Thus, the nexthop you give me needs to be on the same logical network as the one we both share. Using statics to resolve iBGP nexthops can lead to similar blackhole issues if not done carefully. > Though, this only would work for the 1863 style route-server, where > client-peers are fully informed and have multiple routes to choose > from. This happens even in normal BGP. > For the RSng style 'path-selecting' RS, indeed, the RS might consider > a next-hop valid and pass on what it sees as best-path, but the > client might not have a route to the next-hop. If the (non-route server) RS client can't resolve the nexthop, then it should not consider it a feasible route for route selection purposes. > Absolutely. Though, 1863-style seems more robust (if you avoid trying > to co-ordinate the route-servers). Given that we're at a point of stating opinions, I wish to make myself clear: I have no direct experience with 1863 and thus can't comment on how well it worked beyond a theoretical case. However, if we were to want to solve the same problem *today*, I wouldn't use it. I think we have better ideas at this point. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00872 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tTN-0006VC-Rw; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:10:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tT6-0006UV-Oq for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06010 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tT4-0006jn-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:42 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tT2-0006jk-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:09:41 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:KwEM96TlR/TWCz3+butU8X8IB80uOS9+@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97F9ON24278; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from > someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much > less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. True, yes. Though, if the next-hops are /not/ on the broadcast media, then one could ensure that a received BGP route's next-hop would have a corresponding static in IGP. If not, pick another route which /does/ have a valid next-hop in IGP. Though, this only would work for the 1863 style route-server, where client-peers are fully informed and have multiple routes to choose from. For the RSng style 'path-selecting' RS, indeed, the RS might consider a next-hop valid and pass on what it sees as best-path, but the client might not have a route to the next-hop. > This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Can you think of any in the 1863 style RS model? It seems to me that as the client receives all announcements, 1863 would be more robust to reachability problems. (if we presume the BGP next-hops are distributed as IGP statics, and the RS-client peers participate in the IGP). > Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast > media would be less prone to the problem. indeed :) > Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the > route instances, others want to proxy their policy. Absolutely. Though, 1863-style seems more robust (if you avoid trying to co-ordinate the route-servers). regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. -- Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00584 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOX-0005Z2-Lt; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOC-0005YD-GY for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:40 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05543; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071504.LAA05543@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: idr@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:28 -0400 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Autonomous System Confederations for BGP Author(s) : P. Traina Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2003-10-7 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an inter-autonomous system routing protocol designed for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) networks. BGP requires that all BGP speakers within a single autonomous system (AS) must be fully meshed. This represents a serious scaling problem that has been well documented in a number of proposals. This document describes an extension to BGP which may be used to create a confederation of autonomous systems that is represented as a single autonomous system to BGP peers external to the confederation, thereby removing the A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-7110959.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-rfc3065bis-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-7110959.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29963 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:56:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFp-00053R-SF; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tFB-000526-1G for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05114 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tF8-0006W6-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:18 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tF8-0006Vj-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:55:18 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97EskQR029956; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97Eshhv029948; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97EscT09525; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007105438.F9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:41:36PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an > IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, > robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days > seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. The issue is a more general one. If you receive a route from someone else and they are not in the forwarding path, you are much less sure that the route will not be a blackhole. This is true even of several third-party nexthop scnenarios. Admittedly, most of this was caused by ATM issues and a broadcast media would be less prone to the problem. > Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just > dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard > duplicates. :) Depends on the problem you are wanting to solve. You want all the route instances, others want to proxy their policy. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29175 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2H-0004MH-FA; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t2F-0004Lt-OP for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:42:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04517 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2B-0006LM-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:56 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6t2A-0006LJ-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:55 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:NKNSNoqKWkwEkGsgHV8YiorKqNF5B8ab@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EfbN23477; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:41:37 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:41:36 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Indeed. > > A client *could* be another route server. :-) yes :) > The failover and coordination issues are likely some of the reasons > why this never really caught on. However, it does allow for you to > avoid receiving multiple duplicate route instances from a peer > which you can get even from just redundant route-reflector > connections. Just specifying that 1863 style RS-clients should be prepared for duplicates and to deal with it probably would have been the simplest solution. (perfect is the enemy of good :) ) > If you're trying to minimize for memory, this may be ideal. I'm not too sure of the operational reasoning actually. I suspect commercial sensitivity of client policy and operational simplicity of not having to centralise that policy is the main factor in wanting 1863 style route-servers. > In the context of RSd/RSng, in practice, being at one step removed > in the forwarding plane from the router announcing was a serious > operational issue. Blackholing due to ATM PVC issues was way too > common. eek yes. though, could one not regard this problem as one of an IGP / network architecture nature. (make sure there are multiple, robust paths between peering addresses). A lot of IXes these days seem to be 100 or GigE based anyway - not ATM. > Having to coordinate between route servers for failover would > likely be more of an issue than just building your network to hold > the extra route instances from your live backup. Yeah, co-ordination between route-servers would be a killer. So just dont do it is what I'd say. Let the client cope with and discard duplicates. :) > Understood. It will be interesting to see how the two current > proposals fare. yes, it will be. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: You can be replaced by this computer. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28098 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sjt-00039B-9k; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6siw-00038L-4E for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:22:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03725 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sis-00066S-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:58 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sir-00065y-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:57 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97ELPs7028694; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97ELMhv028687; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97ELH309265; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007102117.D9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:13:11PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:21:17 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:13:11PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > Seems reasonably clear in section 4.3.2: > > "Route servers relay all acquired routes unaltered to their clients" Indeed. A client *could* be another route server. :-) > Yes, though that bit of the RFC is a bit over-complex imho. Much > simpler just to let the clients go "oh, i received that already from > the other RS, ignore" in my mind. (given that clients probably would > have to be able to cope with condition anyway, as the RS-clustering > stuff (LIST message, lists of clients) seems a bit fragile to me). The failover and coordination issues are likely some of the reasons why this never really caught on. However, it does allow for you to avoid receiving multiple duplicate route instances from a peer which you can get even from just redundant route-reflector connections. If you're trying to minimize for memory, this may be ideal. In the context of RSd/RSng, in practice, being at one step removed in the forwarding plane from the router announcing was a serious operational issue. Blackholing due to ATM PVC issues was way too common. Having to coordinate between route servers for failover would likely be more of an issue than just building your network to hold the extra route instances from your live backup. > The spirit of RFC 1863, ie route-servers which operate along the vein > of the first paragraph of Sec. 4.3.2 in RFC1863 - ie pass on all > announcements and withdrawals without doing path-selection. > > But it doesnt appear possible as things stand. Understood. It will be interesting to see how the two current proposals fare. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27500 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sbB-0002og-Ov; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sb1-0002oJ-RZ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03070 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6saz-000604-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:49 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6saw-0005zz-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:46 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:WIR7anV5SpZfOpzSeUqRN9s695oPXXJr@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97EDBN22600; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:11 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:11 +0100 (IST) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Sort of. > > To give a specific counter-example, a rsd "view" may be the same > for all peers of that view. Route-selection was intended to be > done on a per-view basis. Yes, you could do it that way. Table per peer can be implemented by having one view per peering pairs. > The language of the RFC is unclear enough that this is a valid > assumption. Seems reasonably clear in section 4.3.2: "Route servers relay all acquired routes unaltered to their clients" :) > However, where's the benefit? You minimize the overhead of peering > sessions, but that is it. That may be the only overhead you want to minimise, yes. > The RFC does allow for route servers to share routes and distribute > load thus making the proxy-routing case a bit easier to deal with. Yes, though that bit of the RFC is a bit over-complex imho. Much simpler just to let the clients go "oh, i received that already from the other RS, ignore" in my mind. (given that clients probably would have to be able to cope with condition anyway, as the RS-clustering stuff (LIST message, lists of clients) seems a bit fragile to me). > In the protocol, no. In practice, people run virtual router > instances and multiple peering sessions to accomplish some of this > where it is seen as necessary. yes. but thats high overhead :) > What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The spirit of RFC 1863, ie route-servers which operate along the vein of the first paragraph of Sec. 4.3.2 in RFC1863 - ie pass on all announcements and withdrawals without doing path-selection. But it doesnt appear possible as things stand. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The Shuttle is now going five times the sound of speed. -- Dan Rather, first landing of Columbia _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26798 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sPZ-00024q-Id; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:02:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6sP4-00023C-H3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02054 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sP2-0005t9-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:28 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6sP1-0005sf-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:01:27 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h97E0rQL027970; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97E0ghv027926; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h97E0bf09194; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031007100037.A9123@nexthop.com> References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 10:52:00AM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:00:37 -0400 On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 10:52:00AM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of > the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require > keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied > /before/ path selection. Sort of. To give a specific counter-example, a rsd "view" may be the same for all peers of that view. Route-selection was intended to be done on a per-view basis. > - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to > peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but > not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the > client. > > The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. The language of the RFC is unclear enough that this is a valid assumption. However, where's the benefit? You minimize the overhead of peering sessions, but that is it. The RFC does allow for route servers to share routes and distribute load thus making the proxy-routing case a bit easier to deal with. > > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > > Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. In the protocol, no. In practice, people run virtual router instances and multiple peering sessions to accomplish some of this where it is seen as necessary. > However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that > allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be > policy-aware. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24965 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ruc-0000oO-8C; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ruT-0000nr-5C for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01058 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ruR-0005WN-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:51 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ruP-0005W2-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:29:50 -0400 Received: from juniper.net (garnet.juniper.net [172.17.28.17]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h97DTEj21807; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200310071329.h97DTEj21807@merlot.juniper.net> To: idr@ietf.org cc: skh@nexthop.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <59927.1065533354.1@juniper.net> From: Yakov Rekhter Subject: [Idr] IDR Agenda Items Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:29:14 -0700 Folks, Its about time to start thinking about agenda items for the Minneapolis IETF. Please forward any IDR agenda items you might have to me and Sue. Sue & Yakov. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA16157 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pKw-0001tR-PC; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6pKc-0001sn-QJ for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26293 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pKY-0003nO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:38 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6pKX-0003nH-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:44:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 31469 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 10:44:36 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 10:44:36 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:44:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: "'idr@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:44:19 +0100 Hello Paul, I would imagine in operation a route server like the one you have defined would properly operate with in an environment where policy is held in a mix of locations, that is some broad policy on the route server and some more detailed policy for traffic control on the client router(s). This would allow the expression of the kind of configurations that are used in public IX today where some parties would not want certain parties to receive their routes - usually for commercial reasons. Any solution would need to be able to fully replicate all the features of direct BGP session based peering as well as offer the advantages of route servers. I have to confess to not having looked at RFC1863 since starting with the development of our route server... however I had a bit more of a look at it when this thread came up. However, I think that Manav's draft offers exactly enough of a solution to what you/we are looking for; certainly it could be added to our implementation without too much trouble to allow a pure mode (where all announcements are sent) like you suggest or the mixed mode (some announcements sent based on broad policy) mentioned above. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] Sent: 07 October 2003 10:52 To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > concentrator. Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied /before/ path selection. (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths which /are/ applicable.) This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP peer). - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the client. The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). AIUI anyway. :) > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > history for). Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' type. However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party (eg an IX operating an RS). So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and withdrawals. I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. thanks! regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA13656 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oWb-0008O6-35; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oWE-0008Np-OD for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA24933 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oWA-0003JB-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:34 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oW4-0003J4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:52:28 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:TGeFsAppduj4vhLgbZ0KWF27ycFWB/qs@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h979q0N14746; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:52:01 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Jeffrey Haas cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> Message-ID: References: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:52:00 +0100 (IST) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing > concentrator. Well, there's 2 types, AIUI: - 'policy aware/path selecting': ie does path-selection on behalf of the client (in accordance with its policies). This tends to require keeping a seperate table for each client. Ie policy must be applied /before/ path selection. (to apply policy afterwards may mean the path-selected is not applicable due to client policy. however, there may be other paths which /are/ applicable.) This type of RS needs no modifications to client BGP implementations. The RS never needs to have more than announcement outstanding to a client at any one time. (ie to the client the RS is a normal eBGP peer). - 'announcement reflector': One that passes on all announcements to peers without doing any kind of best-path selection, possibly, but not neccesarily applying policy before sendign announcement to the client. The latter is what I understand 1863 to provide. However, given the impossiblity of discriminating between multiple previous announcements when withdrawing a prefix in BGP, the latter is not possible without some additional mechanisms (eg the NEXT_HOP set to client address mechanism + ADVERTISER attribute described in 1863). AIUI anyway. :) > If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just > looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See > other e-mails on this thread for examples.) Yes, but its not possible with how BGP implementations stand today. > Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or > two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. Shame. It seems an OK RFC. (except for the LIST message and the RS-Cluster stuff - which i think would be impossible to implement reliably. Never mind unneccessary - clients could just put up with receiving the same announcement from multiple RSes). > The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge > was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) > and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or > history for). Indeed, AFAICT, RSng is of the 'policy aware' or 'path selecting' type. However, I believe many operators would like to see a mechanism that allows an RS to be implemented that does /not/ require the RS to be policy-aware. Ie because of the overhead of keeping RSes configured with client policy, and, possibly more important, because policy can be commercially sensitive and many operators of potential RS-client peers do not wish to have to register their policy with a 3rd party (eg an IX operating an RS). So it would be nice to have some means to allow implementing an RS that was 'dumb' and simply reflected on /all/ announcements and withdrawals. I'll have a look at Manav's ECMP_NEXT_HOP draft and offer comment. thanks! regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13086 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xwr-0005c7-72; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xvt-0005Xm-QU for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09131 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xvs-0007ma-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xvr-0007m5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96G9R6I092116; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96G9Phv092109; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h96G9Kf27150; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031006120920.G12300@nexthop.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 01:49:30PM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:20 -0400 Paul, On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 01:49:30PM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > It seems 1863 is the only thing out there for route-serving which > does not require policy to be defined on the RS itself. A route-server is generally meant to be a proxy-routing concentrator. If you aren't having it carry out your policy for you, you're just looking for something that can send multiple route instances. (See other e-mails on this thread for examples.) > However, i > can find no mention of support for this RFC in the documentation of > major BGP implementations, other than in the RFC citations. Based on my conversations with others, I believe there was one or two implementations of 1863, but it was not widely deployed. The most widely deployed route server environment to my knowledge was Merit's RSng project (http://www.rsng.net for some archives) and its predecessor project (which I have no documentation or history for). -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12802 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xs1-0004yp-Fy; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Xr2-0004qr-4a for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:05:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08831 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xr0-0007gG-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:04:58 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Xqz-0007fS-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:04:58 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96G49ZG091864; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: from jhaas.nexthop.com (jhaas.nexthop.com [65.247.36.31]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96G46hv091857; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhaas@jhaas.nexthop.com) Received: (from jhaas@localhost) by jhaas.nexthop.com (8.11.3nb1/8.11.3) id h96G41d27138; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Haas To: Paul Jakma , Ian Campbell Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Message-ID: <20031006120400.F12300@nexthop.com> References: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from paul@clubi.ie on Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:54:56AM +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 01:54:56AM +0100, Paul Jakma wrote: > - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a > peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit > withdraw?) If you are talking strictly within the context of a route server, then 1863 has a mechanism already in it. However, 1863 has more than most people want out of a route server cluster in many cases. Recent proposals, including Manav's seem a bit cleaner. An interesting question is whether those proposals have been considered in a proxy-route-selection environment. 1863 was designed specifically for those requirements. > Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server > which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp > peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all > client peers policies). Manav's draft, also draft-walton-bgp-add-paths > PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had > subscribed. You may wish to verify you're subscribed to idr@ietf.org. -- Jeff Haas NextHop Technologies _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10848 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XL7-0002rY-EX; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6XKh-0002r1-4m for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07628 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XKg-0007Fr-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:34 -0400 Received: from dns.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.216] helo=presque.nexthop.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6XKf-0007FE-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:31:33 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.11.1) id h96FUvaT090784 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shares@nexthop.com) Received: from mail.corp.nexthop.com ([65.247.36.233]) by presque.nexthop.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h96FUlhv090755 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from shares@nexthop.com) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Thread-Index: AcOMDRF/1ktmGK37QkuoSI826nXPnQAEbLZQ From: "Susan Hares" To: "John G. Scudder" , "Pekka Savola" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:42 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by nic.merit.edu id LAA10848 I'll work on both. Sue -----Original Message----- From: John G. Scudder [mailto:jgs@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:22 AM To: Pekka Savola Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 At 8:57 AM +0300 10/6/03, Pekka Savola wrote: >The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive >available somewhere ftp://ftp.merit.edu/mail.archives/idr/ Sue/Yakov, IMO it would probably be good to either migrate the old archives to the new and improved (?) IETF page, or add a pointer to the historical archives to the IDR WG page. --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07976 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZh-00011y-Iz; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WZ4-000112-IX for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04041 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZ2-0006FG-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:20 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WZ1-0006F4-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:42:19 -0400 Received: from zbl6c012.us.nortel.com (zbl6c012.corpeast.baynetworks.com [132.245.205.62]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h96Efgw04296 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zbl6c002.us.nortel.com (zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com [132.245.205.52]) by zbl6c012.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SZWA3Q95; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (schavali-2.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.145.114]) by zbl6c002.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRQTB14Z; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3F817F25.4090806@nortelnetworks.com> X-Sybari-Trust: 2233a147 aee23e9e 2f398e84 00000104 From: Srikanth Chavali User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000606010103000901080000" Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:41:41 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000606010103000901080000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------000606010103000901080000 Content-Type: text/html; name="www1.ietf.org-mail-archive-ietf-announce-Current-msg26255.html" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="www1.ietf.org-mail-archive-ietf-announce-Current-msg26255.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt

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I-D ACTION:draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: Peer Prefix Limits Exchange in BGP
	Author(s)	: S. Chavali et al.
	Filename	: draft-chavali-bgp-prefixlimit-00.txt
	Pages		: 14
	Date		: 2003-9-25
	
This document proposes a mechanism to allow BGP peers to coordinate
the setting of a limit on the number of prefixes which one BGP
speaker will send to its peer.  Coordination can prevent disruption
of the peering session or discarding of routes, which can occur when
a maximum prefix limit is configured on the 'receiving' peer, and the
'sending' peer exceeds the limit.

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--------------000606010103000901080000-- _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07545 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WRy-0000Uk-Nd; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:35:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6WR0-0000Tu-7Q for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:34:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03573 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WQx-00069v-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:33:59 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6WQx-00069s-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:33:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 25122 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 14:33:54 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 14:33:54 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:33:44 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Manav Bhatia'" Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:33:37 +0100 Thanks for that Manav, Very interesting, shows I should check this list a little more often! I can see how this could be useful for creation of route server clusters (which are calculating best path for clients) as well as the original intended application. The reason for clusters in our case is to provide a way of scaling numbers of peers up by distributing CPU resources (for best path calculation), as well as to a limited extent memory resources. I can also see how our present software might be modified to allow peers greater control of their own policy by using the draft attributes as you intend (not too much of a jump!). Has there been any other interest shown so far? Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Manav Bhatia [mailto:manav@samsung.com] Sent: 06 October 2003 14:02 To: Ian Campbell Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Ian, > Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a > prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of > attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not > overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular > peer) on update. You can do this with http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-00.txt To see how it may do that refer to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/index.html http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/sld13.HTM shows how one may selectively withdraw a prefix associated with a set of Path Attributes. Regards, Manav [clipped] _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03223 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VKH-0005de-VY; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6VK4-0005d1-7k for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29115 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VK2-000555-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:46 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6VK2-000547-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:22:46 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Oct 2003 06:29:29 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (router.cisco.com [64.101.214.30]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h96DM9Js010989; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.3] (ssh-rtp-1.cisco.com [161.44.11.166]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19250; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jgs@router Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: To: Pekka Savola From: "John G. Scudder" Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:22:05 -0400 At 8:57 AM +0300 10/6/03, Pekka Savola wrote: >The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive >available somewhere ftp://ftp.merit.edu/mail.archives/idr/ Sue/Yakov, IMO it would probably be good to either migrate the old archives to the new and improved (?) IETF page, or add a pointer to the historical archives to the IDR WG page. --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02526 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V8f-00057Q-No; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6V8O-000571-H6 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28628 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V8M-0004w1-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6V8M-0004vt-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HMC00D0478Y9Z@mailout2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:10 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMC00I4Y78XHF@mailout2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0900 (KST) Received: from Manav ([107.108.3.180]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HMC005EG78VDO@mmp2.samsung.com> for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0900 (KST) From: Manav Bhatia Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support To: Ian Campbell Cc: idr@ietf.org Reply-to: Manav Bhatia Message-id: <001801c38c0a$0ddced90$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:32:08 +0530 Ian, > Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a > prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of > attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not > overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular > peer) on update. You can do this with http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-00.txt To see how it may do that refer to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/index.html http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03jul/slides/idr-4/sld13.HTM shows how one may selectively withdraw a prefix associated with a set of Path Attributes. Regards, Manav [clipped] _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19433 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R1C-0004CS-VR; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:47:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6R0O-0004Bi-3v for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22287 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R0J-0002Y8-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 Received: from mail3.band-x.net ([213.232.68.12]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6R0J-0002Y5-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 22300 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 08:46:01 -0000 Received: from watchguard.band-x.net (HELO hermes.band-x.com) (213.166.3.58) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 08:46:01 -0000 Received: by hermes.band-x.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:45:49 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ian Campbell To: "'Paul Jakma'" Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: RE: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:45:43 +0100 Hello Paul, Saw this thread and couldn't resist replying to it as I have been down this road already! Using the standard protocol there is no way to selectively withdraw a prefix, as there is no way to associate a withdraw message with a set of attributes. That is even if you could get the end implementation to not overwrite the current attribute information for a prefix (from a particular peer) on update. The only way to achieve something like this would be to use something like the RFC2547 standard for VPNs and change it to carry an appropriate discriminator for the particular update/withdraw combination. I have actually looked at this for our route server implementation as way of generating a clustering solution for route server systems. However to talk to a standard implementation the route server really needs to calculate path selection on its client peers behalf. This is exactly what our route server implementation does, in fact our implementation has a separate RIB for each connected peer so as to allow for complete flexibility. I hope this helps. Regards, Ian Campbell Band-X Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@clubi.ie] Sent: 06 October 2003 01:55 To: Manav Bhatia Cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Hi Manav, On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There are severe scaling problems with RFC 1863 and hence you wont find > many implementations supporting this (Path Attributes 12 and 13). Ah, ok. Out of curiosity: what are the scaling problems? Then my next question is: - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit withdraw?) Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all client peers policies). Ie a route-server which simply passes on all announcements received to all 'client' peers? Passing on the announcements of prefixes isnt a problem, but i'm not sure how an RS would discriminate withrawals (without withdrawing a prefix then reannouncing remaining valid announcements - but that is not feasible because of stability). thanks in advance, > Regards, > Manav PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had subscribed. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA10975 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ONd-0004dj-B2; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6ONN-0004dP-Mk for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06603 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ONK-0001E1-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:42 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6ONJ-0001DU-00 for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:57:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h965v2H12074; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:57:02 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Yakov Rekhter cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200309301753.h8UHrdj05538@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:57:02 +0300 (EEST) Sorry for delay in responding.. On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > Responding to two issues which seem may warrant further discussion from > > me.. > > > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Yakov Rekhter wrote: > > > > - I got major headache when trying to read the aggregating rules > > > > especially in section 9.2.2.2 (and that was supposed to be the _simple_ > > > > rules :-(!!!) and ended up skipping them. > > > > > > > > substantial > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > 1) Section 3 on Summary of the Operations, states: > > > > > > > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker adver- > > > > tises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in this > > > > context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the most > > > > preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases are > > > > outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > this "usability" requirement is in conflict with section 4.3 on UPDATE > > > > message format: > > > > > > > > An UPDATE message is used to advertise feasible routes sharing common > > > > path attributes to a peer, [...] > > > > > > > > ==> in particular note that "feasible" is a superset of "only those route > s > > > > the router itself uses" (compare to "those routes the router itself _coul > d_ > > > > use if they were the most preferred ones"), right? > > Could you point me to the text in the spec that said that "feasible" is > a superset of "only those routes that the router itself uses" ? Look at the two quetes above and the definition of feasible: Feasible route A route that is available for use. Note: it says "is _available_ for use", not "is _being_ used". So, it seems clear that "feasible" seems to include also those routes which could be used, but for some reason (e.g. a preferred route exists) aren't. > > > > ==> also note that the former definition is (IMHO) operationally unsound. > > > > It prevents you from advertising P-t-P addresses and loopbacks (which als > o > > > > reside in IGP) using BGP, because the IGP distance is lower than BGP and > > > > "BGP route is never used in forwarding". (depending on how you interpret > > > > that). IMHO, this really needs to be changed to be OK. > > > > > > The current text reflects consensus reached by the WG. > > > > Note that there are two issues here: > > 1) the text is out-of-sync between sections 3 and 4.3, and > > 2) that the current definition of BGP route used for forwarding is not > > really useful. > > > > I take it that the comment 1) is still valid. > > > > Has 2) -- which you were probably referring to -- been raised as an issue > > in the spec? Any pointers to the issue, discussion, and the conclusion > > (the answer to the question "Why did the WG decide this way?") I fail to > > see why such a conclusion would be justified.. and if the relevant points > > haven't been raised already, I probably want to re-open that debate. > > >From draft-ietf-idr-bgp-issues-01.txt: > > After some additional discussion (in the "issue 11.2" thread), we > have come to a consensus on this text: > > In the context of this document we assume that a BGP speaker > advertises to its peers only those routes that it itself uses (in > this context a BGP speaker is said to "use" a BGP route if it is the > most preferred BGP route and is used in forwarding). All other cases > are outside the scope of this document. > > This issue is at consensus. > > So, the text in the spec represents consensus of the WG. Also note > the last sentence in the above paragraph. Thanks. There seems to have been some discussion on this, sure, but I don't see anything in the issue 11.2 text in the draft which would indicate why this definition of "use" has been adapted. The WG mailing list archives only start recently. Is there an archive available somewhere which documents the discussion noted in the 11.2? When was that discussion held? -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA23199 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6JfN-0004Qw-CE; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Jep-0004QZ-Hj for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01081 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jen-0006wO-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:25 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Jel-0006wL-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:55:24 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:NKW2QYIBWILO3FNZ7DkSaNWpqMpU3K0N@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h960suN21290; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:54:58 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: Manav Bhatia cc: Inter-Domain Routing List Subject: Re: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support In-Reply-To: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> Message-ID: References: <06ef01c389b1$8a7f2170$b4036c6b@sisodomain.com> X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 01:54:56 +0100 (IST) Hi Manav, On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Manav Bhatia wrote: > Hi Paul, > > There are severe scaling problems with RFC 1863 and hence you wont find > many implementations supporting this (Path Attributes 12 and 13). Ah, ok. Out of curiosity: what are the scaling problems? Then my next question is: - is there any portable way to announce a prefix multiple times to a peer and be able to withdraw a /specific/ announcement? (implicit withdraw?) Essentially, is it possible to create a transparent route-server which does /not/ have to do path-selection on behalf of client ebgp peers (which requires the route-server to be configured with all client peers policies). Ie a route-server which simply passes on all announcements received to all 'client' peers? Passing on the announcements of prefixes isnt a problem, but i'm not sure how an RS would discriminate withrawals (without withdrawing a prefix then reannouncing remaining valid announcements - but that is not feasible because of stability). thanks in advance, > Regards, > Manav PS: I'm not receiving mail from this list, though I thought I had subscribed. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: The difference between a career and a job is about 20 hours a week. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19893 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tVT-0003lL-QP; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:00:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5tV1-0003kN-1J for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14410 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5tUy-00035B-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:32 -0400 Received: from [81.199.84.99] (helo=ok6325.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5tUw-00034l-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:59:31 -0400 From: "Loi C. 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I am contacting you because I want you to represent me as the beneficiary at the finance firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my foreign business partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investment my share in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather assist me properly, I expect you to declare what percentage of the total money you will take for your assistance, When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Finanace company is and the payment pin code to claim the money which is very important. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because my lines are right now connected to the Philippines Telecommunication Network services. Please also send me your telephone and fax number. I will ask my son to contact you to give you more details on the transaction and speedy the completion as soon as I received a positive response from you. Thank you and God bless you and family. Mrs. Loi C. Estrada alternate email address: lcaestrada@hknetmail.com _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA29975 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fTS-00075Z-3H; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:01:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5fT2-00073J-M3 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12921 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 02:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fSy-0003tg-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:32 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5fSx-0003tA-00 for idr@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 02:00:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h945xZr10973; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:59:35 +0300 From: Pekka Savola To: Dennis Ferguson cc: "John G. Scudder" , Jeffrey Haas , Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on idr-bgp4-20 In-Reply-To: <200309301928.h8UJShj14680@merlot.juniper.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:59:35 +0300 (EEST) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Dennis Ferguson wrote: > > > > It is a bug in the specification sense because the spec does not include > > > > text that you should do loop prevention by discarding the path when it > > > > contains your own AS. > > > > > > The minimal theoretical requirement for loop termination (BGP doesn't > > > prevent loops which occur transiently, just guarantees they'll eventually > > > be stopped) is that you should discard the path when it includes your > > > own AS `N' times, for any `N' you care to choose. While N=1, which you like, > > > will terminate loops, letting N=2 or N=5 or N=12 will terminate them > > > just fine as well (though you are wasting convergence time if you make > > > `N' larger than the number of inter-AS border routers you have, at most). > > > It hence isn't a bug to allow `N' to be set to a value other than 1 in > > > any theoretical sense. > > > > I wouldn't call such an AS having a coherent routing plan. If you allow > > AS > 1, you're abusing the term AS. > > I notice you've changed the subject from one of protocol correctness, i.e. > whether routing loops are guaranteed to terminate, to one of policy, i.e. > whether, in your opinion, it is a good idea to do this to solve routing > problems one might have when using the protocol. These are invariably linked. BGP is built on a set of assumptions (e.g. on what it means to be an AS), and this seems to break that assumption. > As the people who originally responded to you implied, the BGP protocol > specification has always tried to limit itself to ensuring protocol > correctness while leaving policy to the users of the protocol. I think > that's still appropriate. That's a good goal, but going too far on that path is not useful... when it requires changes or features in the protocol to accommodate for the "policies" of the users. > > > > Further, there is no need to do anything of this sort if you get default > > > > routes from the Internet, or set up a backup (highest protocol distance) > > > > route towards the Internet. > > > > > > I'm sure you don't mean that one or the other of those things is always > > > possible to do. It is when neither of those things is possible that you > > > might want to set N>1 instead. > > > > Can you shown me a couple (or at least _one_) example where other methods > > are not possible and this is required? > > Suppose the operators of two multiply-connected networks agree to provide > backup routing to heal each other's partitions without offering transit > to the rest of "the Internet". Here you need explicit routing for the > destinations being backed up (they may already default traffic to "the > Internet" to other providers), and you certainly can't have two guys > pointing default routes at each other in any case. One can use explicit static routes to each other. Even a default route at one end, as long as you guarantee that at least one party has the full routing routing table, is possible. > Or, suppose three operators have entered into a similar arrangement, with > the partitioned guy being allowed to split his load across the other two. > You can't have two default routes pointing at different guys (especially > if "the Internet" is in some other direction), and you generally need > explicit routes to get a predictable load split. Equal cost multipathing should allow one to load-balance with a default route as well. Inbound traffic would be load split more roughly. But I don't think this is a realistic scenario. Planning for load balacing during the network partition... hello? > Of course these are only problems I can think of, there are likely > lots more problems that I can't imagine. The latter is the reason the > BGP specification should limit itself to protocol correctness issues, > leaving policy issues to the protocol users who actually have the > problems to solve. In both cases tunnels should fix the problem, and eliminate the root cause for this kind of behaviour. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02581 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5PNi-00042F-Q3; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5PNO-00041l-C8 for idr@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04816 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PNM-0000Jq-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:40 -0400 Received: from hibernia.jakma.org ([213.79.33.168]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5PNL-0000Jm-00 for idr@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:49:39 -0400 Received: from fogarty.jakma.org (IDENT:B31fN0en6Sgs+NRO5uWv9obA++MO31MX@fogarty.jakma.org [192.168.0.4]) by hibernia.jakma.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h93CnUN10603 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:49:30 +0100 From: Paul Jakma X-X-Sender: paul@fogarty.jakma.org To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-NSA: iraq saddam hammas hisballah rabin ayatollah korea vietnam revolt mustard gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Idr] rfc1863 - route-server rfc support Sender: idr-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: idr-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:49:30 +0100 (IST) Hi, I'm wondering about RFC1863 and how widely it is supported. In particular support for the client-mode aspects of the RFC, in particular the 2 following details: - 1863 specifies that a Route-Server (RS) can withdraw a specific announcement by sending the full announcement to the client but with the next-hop address in the next-hop attribute set to one of the addresses of the client. - presumably the RS-client can use the Advertiser attribute (which an RFC1863 RS should include in updates), or any other (if included), to discriminate between which announcements for that prefix the withdrawal was referring to. How many BGP implementations support these 2 things? Ie recognition of advertiser attribute and of next-hop-self withdrawal? (and can they properly discriminate withdrawals?) It seems 1863 is the only thing out there for route-serving which does not require policy to be defined on the RS itself. However, i can find no mention of support for this RFC in the documentation of major BGP implementations, other than in the RFC citations. Thanks in advance. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption. _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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