From stbryant@cisco.com Thu Feb 9 05:51:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89A021F873D for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 05:51:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tIzue6wmS1hc for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 05:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE2A21F8741 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 05:51:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; l=2523; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1328795490; x=1330005090; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject; bh=iITW6auF0KIldP2YAladh9guTZmjDbZrMrdh1lop3uc=; b=DA3mq3c9J7kKuT3i11aA3pbhYU+7035OoU5yGKfRBWK8lQCwKmijpr1Y G2aqzrlDs/akwkZlObVGbIKI3yqCJS1+17feetKZoCFIEZ0IoWuV99VwJ 5ewBz58/j8VHYsC5uwZD78HkvwWulZRjA53FCxGBZeJtTgGZv7AsL7B86 s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EAATOM0+Q/khR/2dsb2JhbAAqGq8lgQeCCwECAWIBHwEcFhgDAgECAUsNAQcBARAOh2MpmlEBgzEPAYFKmXOLQwghCQMDAQEJAQQ/AQ0BGIMtCyMPBwEBAQEBVoMwBIJbklWSYmw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,390,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="65763689" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Feb 2012 13:51:29 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q19DpQCV007324; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 13:51:29 GMT Received: from stbryant-mac2.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id q19DpPMJ027625; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 13:51:26 GMT Message-ID: <4F33CF5D.3010108@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:51:25 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr mailing list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070102030402080806000005" Cc: "idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [Idr] IDR Errata 1632 and 1573 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:51:32 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070102030402080806000005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IDR has 12 unresolved Errata which I plan top gradually clear over the next few weeks. In this erratum http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=1632 The key change is OLD The Type values for the transitive communities of the two-octet AS specific extended community class NEW The Type values for the transitive communities of the IPv4 Address specific extended community class END This looks correct and thus should be accepted. === http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=1573 also looks correct and thus should be accepted. Chairs, please confirm the above assessment. WG, if you think that this is incorrect please let us know by 17th Feb. - Stewart --------------070102030402080806000005 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
IDR has 12 unresolved Errata which I plan top gradually
clear over the next few weeks.

In this erratum

http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=1632

The key change is

OLD
The Type values for the transitive
   communities of the two-octet AS specific extended community class

NEW

The Type values for the transitive
   communities of the IPv4 Address specific extended community class

END

This looks correct and thus should be accepted.

===


http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=1573

also looks correct and thus should be accepted.

Chairs, please confirm the above assessment.

WG, if you think that this is incorrect please let us know
by 17th Feb.

- Stewart


    

    

    

    

  


--------------070102030402080806000005--

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This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will run
from 2/11 - 2/25. 

Please send comments to the list.  

 

Sue and John 

 

-----------------

 

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external

 

 

   This document extends that procedure to operate in environments where

   Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used and

   explains why advertising the additional routing information can

   improve convergence time without causing routing loops.

 

   Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and

   avoidance of permanent route oscillation.

 


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This is to =
start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will run from =
2/11 – 2/25. 
Please send =
comments to the list.  
 
Sue and John =

 
-----------------
 
 
htt=
p://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external<=
/p>
 
 
   This =
document extends that procedure to operate in environments =
where
   Route =
Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used =
and
   =
explains why advertising the additional routing information =
can
   =
improve convergence time without causing routing =
loops.
 
   =
Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn =
and
   =
avoidance of permanent route oscillation.
 
 =


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This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:

 

  Codification of AS 0 processing.

  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03

 

WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 - 2/25/2012.

 

Please send comments to list. 

 

Sue and John 

------------------------

 

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/

 

  This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /

   AS4_PATH BGP attribute.

 


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This is to start a =
2 week WGLC on:
 
  Codification =
of AS 0 processing.
  =
draft-ietf-idr-as0-03
 
WGLC runs from =
2/11/2012 – 2/25/2012.
 
Please send =
comments to list. 
 
Sue and John =

------------------------
 
 
http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/
 
  This =
document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH =
/
   =
AS4_PATH BGP attribute.
 

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This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:

 

  Codification of AS 0 processing.

  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03

 

WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 - 2/25/2012.

 

Please send comments to list. 

 

Sue and John 

------------------------

 

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/

 

  This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /

   AS4_PATH BGP attribute.

 

 


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This is to start a =
2 week WGLC on:
 
  Codification =
of AS 0 processing.
  =
draft-ietf-idr-as0-03
 
WGLC runs from =
2/11/2012 – 2/25/2012.
 
Please send =
comments to list. 
 
Sue and John =

------------------------
 
 
http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/
 
  This =
document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH =
/
   =
AS4_PATH BGP attribute.
 
 

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Cc: idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR Errata 1632 and 1573
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Stewart:

 

It is my understanding that errata 1632 and 1573 are correct.  We should
thank Yakov for taking the time to correct earlier errors. 

 

Sue 

 

From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Stewart Bryant
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:51 AM
To: idr mailing list
Cc: idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] IDR Errata 1632 and 1573

 


IDR has 12 unresolved Errata which I plan top gradually
clear over the next few weeks.

In this erratum

http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=1632

The key change is

OLD

The Type values for the transitive
   communities of the two-octet AS specific extended community class
 
NEW
 
The Type values for the transitive
   communities of the IPv4 Address specific extended community class
 
END
 
This looks correct and thus should be accepted.
 
===
 
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=1573
 
also looks correct and thus should be accepted.
 
Chairs, please confirm the above assessment.
 
WG, if you think that this is incorrect please let us know
by 17th Feb.
 
- Stewart







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Stewart:
 
It is my understanding that errata 1632 and 1573 are correct. =
 We should thank Yakov for taking the time to correct earlier =
errors. 
 
Sue 
 
From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Stewart Bryant
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:51 =
AM
To: idr mailing list
Cc: =
idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] IDR Errata 1632 and =
1573
 

IDR has =
12 unresolved Errata which I plan top gradually
clear over the next =
few weeks.

In this erratum

http://ww=
w.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=3D1632

The key change =
is

OLD
The Type values for the =
transitive
   communities of the =
two-octet AS specific extended community =
class
 
NEW
 
The Type values for the =
transitive
   communities of the IPv4 =
Address specific extended community =
class
 
END
 
This looks correct and thus should be =
accepted.
 
=3D=3D=3D=

 
http://ww=
w.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?eid=3D1573
 
also looks correct and thus should be =
accepted.
 
Chairs, =
please confirm the above =
assessment.
 
WG, if you =
think that this is incorrect please let us know
by =
17th Feb.
 
- =
Stewart




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From jayb@zoe.braeburn.org  Sat Feb 11 03:26:42 2012
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Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:26:18 -0500
From: Jay Borkenhagen 
To: "Susan Hares" 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Susan Hares writes:
 >  
 > 
 > This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05.txt which will run
 > from 2/11 - 2/25. 
 > 
 > Please send comments to the list.  
 > 

I cannot support this draft in its current form, but I will suggest a
change that I would be able to support.

Prior to best-external when a router X in AS1 learns a route via ibgp
having a bgp next-hop of border router Y (also in AS1) for a route
coming from Y's neighboring AS2, X can be assured that if it can
somehow deliver packets destined for that route to router Y, that Y
will forward those packets out of AS1 into AS2.

With best-external, this is no longer necessarily the case, as Y's
announcement may be its best-external route that Y does not itself
use for its forwarding.

I think it's possible that many network designs today implicitly rely
on the current behavior.  Certainly many network operators believe it
to be so, and would be misled by best-external.

I do not think that the Deployment Considerations section goes far
enough to address this.  I agree that in most network designs, router
X would also learn the advertisement that router Y chooses as its
overall best and router X would make the same overall best-path choice
as router Y had made, but it is not a certainty that this is so and it
should not be assumed so here.


My suggestion to remedy this concern is to add text requiring that any
router software implementing best-external MUST enable it only as an
optional knob, with the existing "announce only one's overall best"
behavior continuing as the default.

If this suggestion is adopted, then the Deployment Considerations
section should be adjusted to say something like "Networks should
enable best-external only if they know their bgp mesh is constructed
in such a way that routers learning a non-overall-best best-external
route from some other router in their AS will also learn the same
overall-best route the other router preferred."  (Or to continue using
my example from above: routers in AS1 should enable best-external only
if their bgp mesh is constructed such that router X will always learn
the overall-best route preferred by router Y.)

Thanks.

						Jay B.


From jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com  Sat Feb 11 03:32:20 2012
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From: Jeff Tantsura 
To: Susan Hares 
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:32:17 -0500
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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From robert@raszuk.net  Sat Feb 11 08:45:59 2012
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From: Robert Raszuk 
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To: Jay Borkenhagen 
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Cc: idr@ietf.org, Susan Hares 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Hi Jay,

 > optional knob, with the existing "announce only one's overall best"
 > behavior continuing as the default.
+
 > optional knob, with the existing "announce only one's overall best"
 > behavior continuing as the default.

The default today is not as you say above. Today if IBGP path is 
selected as best path ASBR/PE does not advertise anything into IBGP 
mesh. (If it advertised before ebgp learned path it will withdraw it). 
Typically this happens due to MED or Local-Preference.

"best-external" proposal does not reduce information advertised into 
IBGP mesh. Contrary it enhances it with additional paths which otherwise 
would be suppressed from getting advertised.

If ASBR/PE chooses as best path it's ebgp path it will advertise it as 
usual regardless if best-external knob is enabled or not.

To summarize I see no point of stating in "Deployment Considerations" 
that networks should configured their IBGP mesh correctly. I sort of 
take this as given ;)

Conclusion: I am fine to progress the draft as is.

Best,
R.


> Susan Hares writes:
>   >
>   >
>   >  This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05.txt which will run
>   >  from 2/11 - 2/25.
>   >
>   >  Please send comments to the list.
>   >
>
> I cannot support this draft in its current form, but I will suggest a
> change that I would be able to support.
>
> Prior to best-external when a router X in AS1 learns a route via ibgp
> having a bgp next-hop of border router Y (also in AS1) for a route
> coming from Y's neighboring AS2, X can be assured that if it can
> somehow deliver packets destined for that route to router Y, that Y
> will forward those packets out of AS1 into AS2.
>
> With best-external, this is no longer necessarily the case, as Y's
> announcement may be its best-external route that Y does not itself
> use for its forwarding.
>
> I think it's possible that many network designs today implicitly rely
> on the current behavior.  Certainly many network operators believe it
> to be so, and would be misled by best-external.
>
> I do not think that the Deployment Considerations section goes far
> enough to address this.  I agree that in most network designs, router
> X would also learn the advertisement that router Y chooses as its
> overall best and router X would make the same overall best-path choice
> as router Y had made, but it is not a certainty that this is so and it
> should not be assumed so here.
>
>
> My suggestion to remedy this concern is to add text requiring that any
> router software implementing best-external MUST enable it only as an
> optional knob, with the existing "announce only one's overall best"
> behavior continuing as the default.
>
> If this suggestion is adopted, then the Deployment Considerations
> section should be adjusted to say something like "Networks should
> enable best-external only if they know their bgp mesh is constructed
> in such a way that routers learning a non-overall-best best-external
> route from some other router in their AS will also learn the same
> overall-best route the other router preferred."  (Or to continue using
> my example from above: routers in AS1 should enable best-external only
> if their bgp mesh is constructed such that router X will always learn
> the overall-best route preferred by router Y.)
>
> Thanks.
>
> 						Jay B.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>


From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com  Sat Feb 11 17:08:25 2012
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From: Jakob Heitz 
To: Jay Borkenhagen 
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:08:19 -0500
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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The introduction includes the sentence:
   There is also the possible concern regarding advertising a path
   different than the path that has been selected for forwarding.

The advertisement rules specify "MAY".

While the draft does not go into explicit details about what the
concerns are, I don't believe it needs to.

--
Jakob Heitz.

-----Original Message-----
From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jay B=
orkenhagen
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 3:26 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05

Susan Hares writes:
 > =20
 >=20
 > This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05.txt which wil=
l run
 > from 2/11 - 2/25.=20
 >=20
 > Please send comments to the list. =20
 >=20

I cannot support this draft in its current form, but I will suggest a
change that I would be able to support.

Prior to best-external when a router X in AS1 learns a route via ibgp
having a bgp next-hop of border router Y (also in AS1) for a route
coming from Y's neighboring AS2, X can be assured that if it can
somehow deliver packets destined for that route to router Y, that Y
will forward those packets out of AS1 into AS2.

With best-external, this is no longer necessarily the case, as Y's
announcement may be its best-external route that Y does not itself
use for its forwarding.

I think it's possible that many network designs today implicitly rely
on the current behavior.  Certainly many network operators believe it
to be so, and would be misled by best-external.

I do not think that the Deployment Considerations section goes far
enough to address this.  I agree that in most network designs, router
X would also learn the advertisement that router Y chooses as its
overall best and router X would make the same overall best-path choice
as router Y had made, but it is not a certainty that this is so and it
should not be assumed so here.


My suggestion to remedy this concern is to add text requiring that any
router software implementing best-external MUST enable it only as an
optional knob, with the existing "announce only one's overall best"
behavior continuing as the default.

If this suggestion is adopted, then the Deployment Considerations
section should be adjusted to say something like "Networks should
enable best-external only if they know their bgp mesh is constructed
in such a way that routers learning a non-overall-best best-external
route from some other router in their AS will also learn the same
overall-best route the other router preferred."  (Or to continue using
my example from above: routers in AS1 should enable best-external only
if their bgp mesh is constructed such that router X will always learn
the overall-best route preferred by router Y.)

Thanks.

						Jay B.

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

From randy@psg.com  Sat Feb 11 17:26:49 2012
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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> I cannot support this draft in its current form, but I will suggest a
> change that I would be able to support.
> 
> Prior to best-external when a router X in AS1 learns a route via ibgp
> having a bgp next-hop of border router Y (also in AS1) for a route
> coming from Y's neighboring AS2, X can be assured that if it can
> somehow deliver packets destined for that route to router Y, that Y
> will forward those packets out of AS1 into AS2.
> 
> With best-external, this is no longer necessarily the case, as Y's
> announcement may be its best-external route that Y does not itself
> use for its forwarding.
> 
> I think it's possible that many network designs today implicitly rely
> on the current behavior.  Certainly many network operators believe it
> to be so, and would be misled by best-external.
> 
> I do not think that the Deployment Considerations section goes far
> enough to address this.  I agree that in most network designs, router
> X would also learn the advertisement that router Y chooses as its
> overall best and router X would make the same overall best-path choice
> as router Y had made, but it is not a certainty that this is so and it
> should not be assumed so here.
> 
> 
> My suggestion to remedy this concern is to add text requiring that any
> router software implementing best-external MUST enable it only as an
> optional knob, with the existing "announce only one's overall best"
> behavior continuing as the default.
> 
> If this suggestion is adopted, then the Deployment Considerations
> section should be adjusted to say something like "Networks should
> enable best-external only if they know their bgp mesh is constructed
> in such a way that routers learning a non-overall-best best-external
> route from some other router in their AS will also learn the same
> overall-best route the other router preferred."  (Or to continue using
> my example from above: routers in AS1 should enable best-external only
> if their bgp mesh is constructed such that router X will always learn
> the overall-best route preferred by router Y.)

this makes sense to me.  pola.

randy

From robert@raszuk.net  Sun Feb 12 02:11:56 2012
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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>> overall-best route the other router preferred."  (Or to continue using
>> >  my example from above: routers in AS1 should enable best-external only
>> >  if their bgp mesh is constructed such that router X will always learn
>> >  the overall-best route preferred by router Y.)

> this makes sense to me.

care to elaborate how one would construct valid ibgp mesh in a way that 
overall best path in an AS will not be distributed to all bgp speakers ?

r.

From jayb@zoe.braeburn.org  Sun Feb 12 08:10:37 2012
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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 > >> >  overall-best route the other router preferred."  (Or to continue using
 > >> >  my example from above: routers in AS1 should enable best-external only
 > >> >  if their bgp mesh is constructed such that router X will always learn
 > >> >  the overall-best route preferred by router Y.)
 > 
 > > this makes sense to me.
 > 
 > care to elaborate how one would construct valid ibgp mesh in a way that 
 > overall best path in an AS will not be distributed to all bgp speakers ?
 > 
 > r.

Nope.  It's exactly the opposite: Proponents of any changes to
long-standing BGP behaviors must bear the burden of proof to show that
those changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed configurations.

So in the case of best-external: its proponents need to demonstrate
that a router X learning router Y's best-external but not overall best
route will not choose it as X's overall best, at least not until
network conditions change and router Y also considers that route to be
its overall best.

If this cannot be demonstrated, then best-external can still be made
available, but only by opting-in by explicitly choosing a non-default
behavior.


Also, "overall best path" is a local decision.  Different routers in
an AS often do select different overall best paths to the same
prefix. 


From ttauber@1-4-5.net  Sun Feb 12 09:06:41 2012
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+1

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Jeff Tantsura
wrote:

> Yes/support
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 11, 2012, at 4:37, "Susan Hares"  shares@ndzh.com>> wrote:
>
>
> This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:
>
>  Codification of AS 0 processing.
>  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03
>
> WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 =96 2/25/2012.
>
> Please send comments to list.
>
> Sue and John
> ------------------------
>
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/
>
>  This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /
>   AS4_PATH BGP attribute.
>
>

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+1

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Jeff =
Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com> wrote:

Yes/support



Regards,

Jeff




On Feb 11, 2012, at 4:37, "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>> wrote:





This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:



 =A0Codification of AS 0 processing.

 =A0draft-ietf-idr-as0-03



WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 =96 2/25/2012.



Please send comments to list.



Sue and John

------------------------





http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/



 =A0This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /

 =A0 AS4_PATH BGP attribute.



--20cf307cfd126b27f004b8c7629c--

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>WGLC
Yes/Support.

> Please send comments to list.
No more comments (I previously commented the doc on the list and Warren Kum=
ari has already integrated my comments in v03.)

Regards,
Bruno

From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan=
 Hares
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 4:37 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: shares@ndzh.com
Subject: [Idr] WGLC on


This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:

  Codification of AS 0 processing.
  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03

WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 - 2/25/2012.

Please send comments to list.

Sue and John
------------------------


http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/

  This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /
   AS4_PATH BGP attribute.


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>WGLC


Yes/Sup=
port.


&n=
bsp;


> Please send comments to li=
st. 


No more=
 comments (I previously commented the doc on the list and Warren Kumari has=
 already integrated my comments in v03.)


&n=
bsp;


Regards=
,


Bruno


&n=
bsp;








From: idr-boun=
ces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Susan Hares

Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 4:37 AM

To: idr@ietf.org

Cc: shares@ndzh.com

Subject: [Idr] WGLC on






 


 


This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:


 


  Codification of AS 0 processing.


  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03


 


WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 –=
; 2/25/2012.


 


Please send comments to list. <=
o:p>


 


Sue and John =



------------------------


 


 


http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-idr-as0/


 


  This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH =
/


   AS4_PATH BGP attribute.


 






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--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0203B5PEXCVZYM11corpora_--

From robert@raszuk.net  Sun Feb 12 13:09:37 2012
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From: Robert Raszuk 
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> Nope.  It's exactly the opposite: Proponents of any changes to
> long-standing BGP behaviors must bear the burden of proof to show that
> those changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed configurations.

Please show how best external will break anything.

> If this cannot be demonstrated, then best-external can still be made
> available, but only by opting-in by explicitly choosing a non-default
> behavior.

You are still missing the point. When best-external is configured it is 
not that ASBR/PE router (not acting as RR) will advertise something 
different. It is that router will advertise it's best ebgp learned path 
even if ibgp path is selected as best. For the latter ASBR/PE by default 
would not advertise anything.

With cluster external this is different hence requirement in the draft 
for client to client full mesh.

Regardless best-external is a optional configuration. Where in the draft 
you see a recommendation to modify the current 4271 default behaviour ?

> Also, "overall best path" is a local decision.  Different routers in
> an AS often do select different overall best paths to the same
> prefix.

That can happen due to consideration of next hop metric .. and this has 
no bearing on the topic discussed here. As mentioned before IBGP path 
can win best path selection based on MED or Local-Pref comparison steps 
which are evaluated before comparing distance metric to bgp next hop.

R.

From stephane.litkowski@orange.com  Mon Feb 13 01:17:44 2012
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=20


________________________________

	De : idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susa=
n Hares
	Envoy=E9 : samedi 11 f=E9vrier 2012 04:09
	=C0 : idr@ietf.org
	Cc : shares@ndzh.com
	Objet : [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
=09
=09

=09=20

	This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will r=
un from 2/11 - 2/25.=20

	Please send comments to the list.=20=20

=09=20

	Sue and John=20

=09=20

	-----------------

=09=20

=09=20

	http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external

=09=20

=09=20

	   This document extends that procedure to operate in environments where

	   Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used and

	   explains why advertising the additional routing information can

	   improve convergence time without causing routing loops.

=09=20

	   Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and

	   avoidance of permanent route oscillation.

=09=20

=09


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 <=
/DIV>



  

  

  De : idr-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susan=20
  Hares
Envoy=E9 : samedi 11 f=E9vrier 2012 04:09
=C0&=
nbsp;:=20
  idr@ietf.org
Cc : shares@ndzh.com
Objet : [=
Idr]=20
  WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05


  

  

  
 

  
This is to start a WGLC on=20
  draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will run from 2/11 =96 2/25.=20
  

  
Please send comments to the list.  <=
/P>
  
 

  
Sue and John 

  
 

  
-----------------

  
 

  
 

  
htt=
p://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external

  
 

  
 

  
   This d=
ocument=20
  extends that procedure to operate in environments where=


  
   Route=
=20
  Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used=20
  and

  
   explai=
ns why=20
  advertising the additional routing information can

  
   improv=
e=20
  convergence time without causing routing loops.

  
 

  
   Additi=
onal=20
  benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and

  
   avoida=
nce of=20
  permanent route oscillation.

  
 

  
_____________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_________________________________

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tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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te this message and its attachments.
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=20


________________________________

	De : idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susa=
n Hares
	Envoy=E9 : samedi 11 f=E9vrier 2012 04:42
	=C0 : idr@ietf.org
	Cc : shares@ndzh.com
	Objet : [Idr] WGLCon draft-ietf-idr-as0 (second send)
=09
=09

=09=20

	This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:

=09=20

	  Codification of AS 0 processing.

	  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03

=09=20

	WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 - 2/25/2012.

=09=20

	Please send comments to list.=20

=09=20

	Sue and John=20

	------------------------

=09=20

=09=20

	http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/

=09=20

	  This document proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /

	   AS4_PATH BGP attribute.

=09=20

=09=20


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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ormation that may be protected by law;
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/DIV>



  

  

  De : idr-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susan=20
  Hares
Envoy=E9 : samedi 11 f=E9vrier 2012 04:42
=C0&=
nbsp;:=20
  idr@ietf.org
Cc : shares@ndzh.com
Objet : [=
Idr]=20
  WGLCon draft-ietf-idr-as0 (second send)


  

  

  
 

  
This is to start a =
2 week=20
  WGLC on:

  
 

  
  Codification=
 of AS=20
  0 processing.

  
 =20
  draft-ietf-idr-as0-03

  
 

  
WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 =96 2/25/2012.
  
 

  
Please send comments to list. 

  
 

  
Sue and John 

  
------------------------

  
 

  
 

  
http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as0/

  
 

  
  This documen=
t=20
  proscribes the use of AS 0 in BGP OPEN and AS_PATH /

  
   AS4_PA=
TH BGP=20
  attribute.

  
 

  
 
_______=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________________________

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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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From shane@castlepoint.net  Mon Feb 13 07:15:14 2012
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I support WGLC of this doc.

-shane


On Feb 10, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Susan Hares wrote:
> This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which =
will run from 2/11 =96 2/25.
> Please send comments to the list.=20
> =20
> Sue and John
> =20
> -----------------
> =20
> =20
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external
> =20
> =20
>    This document extends that procedure to operate in environments =
where
>    Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used and
>    explains why advertising the additional routing information can
>    improve convergence time without causing routing loops.
> =20
>    Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and
>    avoidance of permanent route oscillation.
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Mon Feb 13 17:49:09 2012
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of=
 the IETF.

	Title           : Subcodes for BGP Finite State Machine Error
	Author(s)       : Jie Dong
                          Mach Chen
                          Anantharamu Suryanarayana
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-fsm-subcode-03.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2012-02-13

   This document defines several subcodes for BGP Finite State Machine
   (FSM) Error that could provide more information to help network
   operators in diagnosing BGP FSM issues and correlating network
   events.  This document updates RFC 4271.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-fsm-subcode-03.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-fsm-subcode-03.txt


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support

/iLya

On Feb 11, 2012, at 04:09 , Susan Hares wrote:

> =20
> This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which =
will run from 2/11 =96 2/25.
> Please send comments to the list.=20
> =20
> Sue and John
> =20
> -----------------
> =20
> =20
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external
> =20
> =20
>    This document extends that procedure to operate in environments =
where
>    Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used and
>    explains why advertising the additional routing information can
>    improve convergence time without causing routing loops.
> =20
>    Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and
>    avoidance of permanent route oscillation.
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

/iLya




From jrmitche@puck.nether.net  Thu Feb 16 11:05:49 2012
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Support

-Jon

On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:09 PM, "Susan Hares"  wrote:

> =20
> This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will r=
un from 2/11 =E2=80=93 2/25.
> Please send comments to the list.=20
> =20
> Sue and John
> =20
> -----------------
> =20
> =20
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external
> =20
> =20
>    This document extends that procedure to operate in environments where
>    Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used and
>    explains why advertising the additional routing information can
>    improve convergence time without causing routing loops.
> =20
>    Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and
>    avoidance of permanent route oscillation.
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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Support

-Jon
<=
div>
On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:09 PM, "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

 
This is to start a WGLC=
 on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will run from 2/11 =E2=80=93 2/=
25. 
Please send comments to the list.&=
nbsp; 
 
Sue and John 
 
-----------------
 
 
<=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-exter=
nal
 
 
   This document extends that procedure to oper=
ate in environments where
   Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Co=
nfederations [RFC5065] are used and
   explains why adverti=
sing the additional routing information can
   improve conv=
ergence time without causing routing loops.
 <=
/p>
  =
; Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and=

&nb=
sp;  avoidance of permanent route oscillation.
 <=
/span>
 
_________________________________________=
______
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr<=
br>
=

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From ub@cs.uni-bonn.de  Fri Feb 17 13:08:25 2012
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From: Uli Bornhauser 
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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 22:08:20 +0100
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References: <003601cce86a$85223250$8f6696f0$@ndzh.com> <20278.20570.629903.373642@oz.mt.att.com>  <4F379060.1020506@raszuk.net> <20279.58423.201282.898414@oz.mt.att.com> <4F382A8F.4090206@raszuk.net>
To: robert@raszuk.net
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org List" 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Hi Robert, hi all,

let me contribute to the discussion with a small illustrative =
configuration:

                    RR(PE1, PE2, PE3)
                   .        .        .
                  . ID3     . ID2     . ID1
+-----+   5  +-----+  1  +-----+  2  +-----+
| PE1 |------| PE2 |-----|  X  |-----| PE3 |
+-----+......+-----+.....+-----+     +-----+
   | ^          | ^                     | ^
   | q          | r                     | p
   |            |                       |
   | MED 1      | MED 5                 | MED m
---+------------+---                 ---+---
        AS x                          AS y

.. =3D iBGP session

Even if at least in my understanding it is not "best practice", the =
example above gives a basic understanding on what problems best-external =
may induce under certain circumstances:
Assume we have the sketched network where three paths for the same =
destination are provided at three ASBRs PE1, PE2, and PE3. We have one =
RR that is part of a cluster that consists of RR, PE2, X, and PE3. For =
any reason, an additional iBGP session is kept between PE1 and PE2 as =
well as between PE2 and X.

Applying Best External, the following should happen  (according to my =
understanding):
+++ PE1 chooses q as best path and provides this path to PE2.
+++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same peer-AS x. Due to the MED, =
path q is preferred. Path r is best external according to the draft, so =
r is provided to RR, X, and PE1.
+++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. Path q is still =
selected and announced.
+++ PE3 chooses p as best path and announces this path to RR.
+++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR prefers path p and spreads this =
path across the cluster.
+++ Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path (r has lower MED =
than q, p comes along with a lower IGP distance than q): p < q < r =
(according to best-external). Path r is still announced as best =
external.
+++ X knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r (lower IGP =
than p).

--- The routing is stable and X relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out =
of the system (via r). However, PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to =
PE3. Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note that this behavior =
is stable, even if RR knows path q.


Due to this (I know constructed but illustrative) example, I agree to =
Jay and Randy. =46rom my point of view, the draft should contain a *very =
very clear* preamble that refers to the possible risks. The draft may =
even contain a small example, e.g. the configuration provided here.=20

Maybe I have missed an important aspect in my considerations, in that =
case I highly appreciate corrections and clarifications.

Have a nice weekend and best regards

Uli


Am 12.02.2012 um 22:09 schrieb Robert Raszuk:

>=20
>> Nope.  It's exactly the opposite: Proponents of any changes to
>> long-standing BGP behaviors must bear the burden of proof to show =
that
>> those changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed configurations.
>=20
> Please show how best external will break anything.
>=20
>> If this cannot be demonstrated, then best-external can still be made
>> available, but only by opting-in by explicitly choosing a non-default
>> behavior.
>=20
> You are still missing the point. When best-external is configured it =
is not that ASBR/PE router (not acting as RR) will advertise something =
different. It is that router will advertise it's best ebgp learned path =
even if ibgp path is selected as best. For the latter ASBR/PE by default =
would not advertise anything.
>=20
> With cluster external this is different hence requirement in the draft =
for client to client full mesh.
>=20
> Regardless best-external is a optional configuration. Where in the =
draft you see a recommendation to modify the current 4271 default =
behaviour ?
>=20
>> Also, "overall best path" is a local decision.  Different routers in
>> an AS often do select different overall best paths to the same
>> prefix.
>=20
> That can happen due to consideration of next hop metric .. and this =
has no bearing on the topic discussed here. As mentioned before IBGP =
path can win best path selection based on MED or Local-Pref comparison =
steps which are evaluated before comparing distance metric to bgp next =
hop.
>=20
> R.
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


--Apple-Mail=_AE7F9935-EA9D-4A47-A2B5-D1B777592C61
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	charset=us-ascii

Hi Robert, hi =
all,

let me contribute to the discussion with a small =
illustrative configuration:

        =
            RR(PE1, PE2, =
PE3)
                =
   .        .       =
 .
                =
  . ID3     . ID2     . =
ID1
+-----+   5  +-----+  1  +-----+ =
 2  +-----+
| PE1 |------| PE2 |-----|  X  |-----| PE3 =
|
+-----+......+-----+.....+-----+     =
+-----+
   | ^          | ^ =
                    | =
^
   | q          | r =
                    | =
p
   |           =
 |                   =
    |
   | MED 1      | MED 5   =
              | MED =
m
---+------------+---           =
      ---+---
        =
AS x                   =
       AS y

.. =3D iBGP =
session

Even if at least in my understanding it is not "best =
practice", the example above gives a basic understanding on what =
problems best-external may induce under certain =
circumstances:
Assume we have the sketched network where three paths =
for the same destination are provided at three ASBRs PE1, PE2, and PE3. =
We have one RR that is part of a cluster that consists of RR, PE2, X, =
and PE3. For any reason, an additional iBGP session is kept between PE1 =
and PE2 as well as between PE2 and X.

Applying Best External, the =
following should happen  (according to my =
understanding):
+++ PE1 chooses q as best path and provides this =
path to PE2.
+++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same =
peer-AS x. Due to the MED, path q is preferred. Path r is best external =
according to the draft, so r is provided to RR, X, and =
PE1.
+++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. =
Path q is still selected and announced.
+++ PE3 chooses p as =
best path and announces this path to RR.
+++ Due to the BGP =
ID, for example, RR prefers path p and spreads this path across the =
cluster.
+++ Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path =
(r has lower MED than q, p comes along with a lower IGP distance than =
q): p < q < r (according to best-external). Path r is still =
announced as best external.
+++ X knows p and r. As path q is =
not known, is chooses r (lower IGP than p).

--- =
The routing is stable and X relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out of =
the system (via r). However, PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to =
PE3. Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note that this behavior =
is stable, even if RR knows path =
q.


Due to this (I know =
constructed but illustrative) example, I agree to Jay and Randy. =46rom =
my point of view, the draft should contain a *very very clear* preamble =
that refers to the possible risks. The draft may even contain a small =
example, e.g. the configuration provided =
here. 

Maybe I have missed an important =
aspect in my considerations, in that case I highly appreciate =
corrections and clarifications.

Have a nice =
weekend and best =
regards

Uli


Am 12.02.2012 um 22:09 schrieb Robert Raszuk:


Nope.  It's =
exactly the opposite: Proponents of any changes =
to
long-standing BGP behaviors =
must bear the burden of proof to show that
those changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed =
configurations.

Please show how best external will =
break anything.

If this cannot be =
demonstrated, then best-external can still be =
made
available, but only by =
opting-in by explicitly choosing a =
non-default
behavior.

You are still missing the =
point. When best-external is configured it is not that ASBR/PE router =
(not acting as RR) will advertise something different. It is that router =
will advertise it's best ebgp learned path even if ibgp path is selected =
as best. For the latter ASBR/PE by default would not advertise =
anything.

With cluster external this is different hence =
requirement in the draft for client to client full =
mesh.

Regardless best-external is a optional configuration. Where =
in the draft you see a recommendation to modify the current 4271 default =
behaviour ?

Also, "overall best path" =
is a local decision.  Different routers =
in
an AS often do select =
different overall best paths to the same
prefix.

That can happen due to =
consideration of next hop metric .. and this has no bearing on the topic =
discussed here. As mentioned before IBGP path can win best path =
selection based on MED or Local-Pref comparison steps which are =
evaluated before comparing distance metric to bgp next =
hop.

R.
_______________________________________________
Idr =
mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/idr

=

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From robert@raszuk.net  Fri Feb 17 14:24:55 2012
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Hi Uli,

Adjusting topology according to your offline message essentially
adding PE1-RR ibgp sessions:

               ..... RR(PE1, PE2, X, PE3)
           .....    .        .        .
       .....       . ID3     . ID2     . ID1
+-----+   5  +-----+  1  +-----+  2  +-----+
| PE1 |------| PE2 |-----|  X  |-----| PE3 |
+-----+......+-----+.....+-----+     +-----+
    |            |                       |
    | q          | r                     | p
    |            |                       |
    | MED 1      | MED 5                 | MED m
---+------------+---                 ---+---
         AS x                          AS y
		
... = iBGP session


Let's analyze step by step your case below ...

+++ PE1 chooses q as best path and provides this path to PE2.

And to RR.

+++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same peer-AS x. Due to the MED, 
path q is preferred. Path r is best external according to the draft, so 
r is provided to RR, X, and PE1.

Well best external is per session or per af. It is not immediately 
obvious what PE2 configuration is in your example. Assuming it is per AF.

+++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. Path q is still 
selected and announced.
+++ PE3 chooses p as best path and announces this path to RR.

Nope. If q MED is 1 it wins over any integer m. Path q will be overall 
best in this RR cluster. So PE3 will choose path q as well.

+++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR prefers path p and spreads this 
path across the cluster.

BGP_ID does not matter here. RR would choose the overall best due to 
MED. In our case RR will choose path q as overall best (MED=1).

+++ Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path (r has lower MED than q

Wrong .. r=5 & q=1 so qMED < rMED ... q remains best.

, p comes along with a lower IGP distance than q): p < q < r (according 
to best-external).

IGP distance does not matter at all here. Best path decision is made due 
to MED.

Path r is still announced as best external.

Ok.

+++ X knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r (lower IGP 
than p).

Wrong. Path q will be known via RR. X will again use MED and will select 
path q MED=1 as best.

--- The routing is stable and X relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out 
of the system (via r). However, PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to 
PE3.

What does it mean that PE2 "intends" ? Traffic to our destination will 
exit via PE2's best path so via q. Do you mean to some other destination 
? It's quite irrelevant then.

   Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note that this behavior is 
stable, even if RR knows path q.

I do not see a loop.

---

Best,
R.


> Hi Robert, hi all,
>
> let me contribute to the discussion with a small illustrative configuration:
>
> RR(PE1, PE2, PE3)
> . . .
> . ID3 . ID2 . ID1
> +-----+ 5 +-----+ 1 +-----+ 2 +-----+
> | PE1 |------| PE2 |-----| X |-----| PE3 |
> +-----+......+-----+.....+-----+ +-----+
> | ^ | ^ | ^
> | q | r | p
> | | |
> | MED 1 | MED 5 | MED m
> ---+------------+--- ---+---
> AS x AS y
>
> .. = iBGP session
>
> Even if at least in my understanding it is not "best practice", the
> example above gives a basic understanding on what problems best-external
> may induce under certain circumstances:
> Assume we have the sketched network where three paths for the same
> destination are provided at three ASBRs PE1, PE2, and PE3. We have one
> RR that is part of a cluster that consists of RR, PE2, X, and PE3. For
> any reason, an additional iBGP session is kept between PE1 and PE2 as
> well as between PE2 and X.
>
> Applying Best External, the following should happen (according to my
> understanding):
> +++ PE1 chooses q as best path and provides this path to PE2.
> +++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same peer-AS x. Due to the MED,
> path q is preferred. Path r is best external according to the draft, so
> r is provided to RR, X, and PE1.
> +++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. Path q is still
> selected and announced.
> +++ PE3 chooses p as best path and announces this path to RR.
> +++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR prefers path p and spreads this
> path across the cluster.
> +++ Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path (r has lower MED
> than q, p comes along with a lower IGP distance than q): p < q < r
> (according to best-external). Path r is still announced as best external.
> +++ X knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r (lower IGP
> than p).
>
> --- The routing is stable and X relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out
> of the system (via r). However, PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to
> PE3. Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note that this behavior
> is stable, even if RR knows path q.
>
>
> Due to this (I know constructed but illustrative) example, I agree to
> Jay and Randy. From my point of view, the draft should contain a *very
> very clear* preamble that refers to the possible risks. The draft may
> even contain a small example, e.g. the configuration provided here.
>
> Maybe I have missed an important aspect in my considerations, in that
> case I highly appreciate corrections and clarifications.
>
> Have a nice weekend and best regards
>
> Uli
>
>
> Am 12.02.2012 um 22:09 schrieb Robert Raszuk:
>
>>
>>> Nope. It's exactly the opposite: Proponents of any changes to
>>> long-standing BGP behaviors must bear the burden of proof to show that
>>> those changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed configurations.
>>
>> Please show how best external will break anything.
>>
>>> If this cannot be demonstrated, then best-external can still be made
>>> available, but only by opting-in by explicitly choosing a non-default
>>> behavior.
>>
>> You are still missing the point. When best-external is configured it
>> is not that ASBR/PE router (not acting as RR) will advertise something
>> different. It is that router will advertise it's best ebgp learned
>> path even if ibgp path is selected as best. For the latter ASBR/PE by
>> default would not advertise anything.
>>
>> With cluster external this is different hence requirement in the draft
>> for client to client full mesh.
>>
>> Regardless best-external is a optional configuration. Where in the
>> draft you see a recommendation to modify the current 4271 default
>> behaviour ?
>>
>>> Also, "overall best path" is a local decision. Different routers in
>>> an AS often do select different overall best paths to the same
>>> prefix.
>>
>> That can happen due to consideration of next hop metric .. and this
>> has no bearing on the topic discussed here. As mentioned before IBGP
>> path can win best path selection based on MED or Local-Pref comparison
>> steps which are evaluated before comparing distance metric to bgp next
>> hop.
>>
>> R.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>


From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com  Sat Feb 18 19:27:12 2012
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From: Jakob Heitz 
To: "robert@raszuk.net" , Uli Bornhauser 
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:25:56 -0500
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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There indeed is a loop.
Robert, go back and do it again, but remember that MED from different ASs a=
re not comparable.

Now the reason for the loop is not best-external, although it makes your ex=
ample easier.
The reason is that you are leaking routes from outside a RR cluster to a RR=
 client.

I believe that the RR rfc4456 contains enough warnings about the trouble
you can get into when mixing MED and clusters in strange ways, particularly
the sentence:


   To prevent routing loops and maintain consistent routing view, it is
   essential that the network topology be carefully considered in
   designing a route reflection topology.



I have contrived a more complicated topology to illustrate.
It does not require best-external.
In the drawing, clusters are circled in green.
Known paths are indicated in brown, the best path is circled in red.
IGP distances are in yellow. BGP connections in black.

[cid:552520403@19022012-0C9A]


--
Jakob Heitz.

-----Original Message-----
From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rober=
t Raszuk
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:25 PM
To: Uli Bornhauser
Cc: idr@ietf.org List
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05

Hi Uli,

Adjusting topology according to your offline message essentially
adding PE1-RR ibgp sessions:

               ..... RR(PE1, PE2, X, PE3)
           .....    .        .        .
       .....       . ID3     . ID2     . ID1
+-----+   5  +-----+  1  +-----+  2  +-----+
| PE1 |------| PE2 |-----|  X  |-----| PE3 |
+-----+......+-----+.....+-----+     +-----+
    |            |                       |
    | q          | r                     | p
    |            |                       |
    | MED 1      | MED 5                 | MED m
---+------------+---                 ---+---
         AS x                          AS y

... =3D iBGP session


Let's analyze step by step your case below ...

+++ PE1 chooses q as best path and provides this path to PE2.

And to RR.

+++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same peer-AS x. Due to the MED,
path q is preferred. Path r is best external according to the draft, so
r is provided to RR, X, and PE1.

Well best external is per session or per af. It is not immediately
obvious what PE2 configuration is in your example. Assuming it is per AF.

+++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. Path q is still
selected and announced.
+++ PE3 chooses p as best path and announces this path to RR.

Nope. If q MED is 1 it wins over any integer m. Path q will be overall
best in this RR cluster. So PE3 will choose path q as well.

+++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR prefers path p and spreads this
path across the cluster.

BGP_ID does not matter here. RR would choose the overall best due to
MED. In our case RR will choose path q as overall best (MED=3D1).

+++ Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path (r has lower MED than q

Wrong .. r=3D5 & q=3D1 so qMED < rMED ... q remains best.

, p comes along with a lower IGP distance than q): p < q < r (according
to best-external).

IGP distance does not matter at all here. Best path decision is made due
to MED.

Path r is still announced as best external.

Ok.

+++ X knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r (lower IGP
than p).

Wrong. Path q will be known via RR. X will again use MED and will select
path q MED=3D1 as best.

--- The routing is stable and X relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out
of the system (via r). However, PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to
PE3.

What does it mean that PE2 "intends" ? Traffic to our destination will
exit via PE2's best path so via q. Do you mean to some other destination
? It's quite irrelevant then.

   Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note that this behavior is
stable, even if RR knows path q.

I do not see a loop.

---

Best,
R.


> Hi Robert, hi all,
>
> let me contribute to the discussion with a small illustrative configurati=
on:
>
> RR(PE1, PE2, PE3)
> . . .
> . ID3 . ID2 . ID1
> +-----+ 5 +-----+ 1 +-----+ 2 +-----+
> | PE1 |------| PE2 |-----| X |-----| PE3 |
> +-----+......+-----+.....+-----+ +-----+
> | ^ | ^ | ^
> | q | r | p
> | | |
> | MED 1 | MED 5 | MED m
> ---+------------+--- ---+---
> AS x AS y
>
> .. =3D iBGP session
>
> Even if at least in my understanding it is not "best practice", the
> example above gives a basic understanding on what problems best-external
> may induce under certain circumstances:
> Assume we have the sketched network where three paths for the same
> destination are provided at three ASBRs PE1, PE2, and PE3. We have one
> RR that is part of a cluster that consists of RR, PE2, X, and PE3. For
> any reason, an additional iBGP session is kept between PE1 and PE2 as
> well as between PE2 and X.
>
> Applying Best External, the following should happen (according to my
> understanding):
> +++ PE1 chooses q as best path and provides this path to PE2.
> +++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same peer-AS x. Due to the MED,
> path q is preferred. Path r is best external according to the draft, so
> r is provided to RR, X, and PE1.
> +++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. Path q is still
> selected and announced.
> +++ PE3 chooses p as best path and announces this path to RR.
> +++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR prefers path p and spreads this
> path across the cluster.
> +++ Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path (r has lower MED
> than q, p comes along with a lower IGP distance than q): p < q < r
> (according to best-external). Path r is still announced as best external.
> +++ X knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r (lower IGP
> than p).
>
> --- The routing is stable and X relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out
> of the system (via r). However, PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to
> PE3. Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note that this behavior
> is stable, even if RR knows path q.
>
>
> Due to this (I know constructed but illustrative) example, I agree to
> Jay and Randy. From my point of view, the draft should contain a *very
> very clear* preamble that refers to the possible risks. The draft may
> even contain a small example, e.g. the configuration provided here.
>
> Maybe I have missed an important aspect in my considerations, in that
> case I highly appreciate corrections and clarifications.
>
> Have a nice weekend and best regards
>
> Uli
>
>
> Am 12.02.2012 um 22:09 schrieb Robert Raszuk:
>
>>
>>> Nope. It's exactly the opposite: Proponents of any changes to
>>> long-standing BGP behaviors must bear the burden of proof to show that
>>> those changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed configurations.
>>
>> Please show how best external will break anything.
>>
>>> If this cannot be demonstrated, then best-external can still be made
>>> available, but only by opting-in by explicitly choosing a non-default
>>> behavior.
>>
>> You are still missing the point. When best-external is configured it
>> is not that ASBR/PE router (not acting as RR) will advertise something
>> different. It is that router will advertise it's best ebgp learned
>> path even if ibgp path is selected as best. For the latter ASBR/PE by
>> default would not advertise anything.
>>
>> With cluster external this is different hence requirement in the draft
>> for client to client full mesh.
>>
>> Regardless best-external is a optional configuration. Where in the
>> draft you see a recommendation to modify the current 4271 default
>> behaviour ?
>>
>>> Also, "overall best path" is a local decision. Different routers in
>>> an AS often do select different overall best paths to the same
>>> prefix.
>>
>> That can happen due to consideration of next hop metric .. and this
>> has no bearing on the topic discussed here. As mentioned before IBGP
>> path can win best path selection based on MED or Local-Pref comparison
>> steps which are evaluated before comparing distance metric to bgp next
>> hop.
>>
>> R.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--_000_7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391B3C4BB388EUSAACMS0701e_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable







There indeed is=
 a=20
loop.


Robert, go back=
 and do it=20
again, but remember that MED from different ASs are not comparable.<=
/DIV>

 

Now the reason =
for the=20
loop is not best-external, although it makes your example easier.

The reason is t=
hat you are=20
leaking routes from outside a RR cluster to a RR=20
client.


 

I believe that =
the RR=20
rfc4456 contains enough warnings about the trouble


you can get int=
o when=20
mixing MED and clusters in strange ways, particularly


the sentence:


 

   To p=
revent routing loops and maintain consistent routing view, it is
   essential that the network topology be carefully considered in
   designing a route reflection topology. 
 


I have contrive=
d a more=20
complicated topology to illustrate.


It does not req=
uire=20
best-external.


In the drawing,=
 clusters=20
are circled in green.


Known paths are=
 indicated=20
in brown, the best path is circled in red.


IGP distances a=
re in=20
yellow. BGP connections in black.





--
Jakob=20
Heitz.

-----Original Message-----
From: idr-bounces@ietf.org=20
[mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, Febru=
ary 17,=20
2012 2:25 PM
To: Uli Bornhauser
Cc: idr@ietf.org List
Subject: Re:=
=20
[Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05

Hi=20
Uli,

Adjusting topology according to your offline message=20
essentially
adding PE1-RR ibgp=20
sessions:

         &nbs=
p;    =20
..... RR(PE1, PE2, X,=20
PE3)
          =20
.....    .       =20
.       =20
.
      =20
.....       . ID3     .=20
ID2     . ID1
+-----+   5  +-----+&nb=
sp;=20
1  +-----+  2  +-----+
| PE1 |------| PE2 |-----| =20
X  |-----| PE3=20
|
+-----+......+-----+.....+-----+    =20
+-----+
   =20
|           =20
|            &n=
bsp;         =20
|
    |=20
q          |=20
r            &n=
bsp;       =20
| p
   =20
|           =20
|            &n=
bsp;         =20
|
    | MED 1      | MED=20
5            &n=
bsp;   =20
| MED=20
m
---+------------+---        &n=
bsp;       =20
---+---
         AS=20
x            &n=
bsp;            =
;=20
AS y
       =20
       
... =3D iBGP=20
session


Let's analyze step by step your case below ...

++=
+ PE1=20
chooses q as best path and provides this path to PE2.

And to=20
RR.

+++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by the same peer-AS x. Due to th=
e=20
MED,
path q is preferred. Path r is best external according to the draft=
,=20
so
r is provided to RR, X, and PE1.

Well best external is per ses=
sion=20
or per af. It is not immediately
obvious what PE2 configuration is in yo=
ur=20
example. Assuming it is per AF.

+++ Obviously, PE1 does not change i=
ts=20
routing decision. Path q is still
selected and announced.
+++ PE3 cho=
oses=20
p as best path and announces this path to RR.

Nope. If q MED is 1 it=
 wins=20
over any integer m. Path q will be overall
best in this RR cluster. So P=
E3=20
will choose path q as well.

+++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR=20
prefers path p and spreads this
path across the cluster.

BGP_ID d=
oes=20
not matter here. RR would choose the overall best due to
MED. In our cas=
e RR=20
will choose path q as overall best (MED=3D1).

+++ Knowing q, r, and =
p, PE2=20
chooses p as best path (r has lower MED than q

Wrong .. r=3D5 & =
q=3D1 so=20
qMED < rMED ... q remains best.

, p comes along with a lower IGP=
=20
distance than q): p < q < r (according
to best-external).

I=
GP=20
distance does not matter at all here. Best path decision is made due
to=
=20
MED.

Path r is still announced as best external.

Ok.

+=
++ X=20
knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r (lower IGP
than=20
p).

Wrong. Path q will be known via RR. X will again use MED and wil=
l=20
select
path q MED=3D1 as best.

--- The routing is stable and X re=
lies on=20
that PE2 forwards traffic out
of the system (via r). However, PE2 intend=
s to=20
forward traffic via X to
PE3.

What does it mean that PE2 "intends=
" ?=20
Traffic to our destination will
exit via PE2's best path so via q. Do yo=
u=20
mean to some other destination
? It's quite irrelevant=20
then.

   Forwarding between PE2 and X forms a loop. Note t=
hat=20
this behavior is
stable, even if RR knows path q.

I do not see a=
=20
loop.

---

Best,
R.


> Hi Robert, hi=20
all,
>
> let me contribute to the discussion with a small=20
illustrative configuration:
>
> RR(PE1, PE2, PE3)
> . .=20
.
> . ID3 . ID2 . ID1
> +-----+ 5 +-----+ 1 +-----+ 2=20
+-----+
> | PE1 |------| PE2 |-----| X |-----| PE3 |
>=20
+-----+......+-----+.....+-----+ +-----+
> | ^ | ^ | ^
> | q | =
r |=20
p
> | | |
> | MED 1 | MED 5 | MED m
> ---+------------+--=
-=20
---+---
> AS x AS y
>
> .. =3D iBGP session
>
&g=
t; Even=20
if at least in my understanding it is not "best practice", the
> exam=
ple=20
above gives a basic understanding on what problems best-external
> ma=
y=20
induce under certain circumstances:
> Assume we have the sketched net=
work=20
where three paths for the same
> destination are provided at three AS=
BRs=20
PE1, PE2, and PE3. We have one
> RR that is part of a cluster that=20
consists of RR, PE2, X, and PE3. For
> any reason, an additional iBGP=
=20
session is kept between PE1 and PE2 as
> well as between PE2 and=20
X.
>
> Applying Best External, the following should happen=20
(according to my
> understanding):
> +++ PE1 chooses q as best =
path=20
and provides this path to PE2.
> +++ PE2 knows q and r, provided by t=
he=20
same peer-AS x. Due to the MED,
> path q is preferred. Path r is best=
=20
external according to the draft, so
> r is provided to RR, X, and=20
PE1.
> +++ Obviously, PE1 does not change its routing decision. Path =
q is=20
still
> selected and announced.
> +++ PE3 chooses p as best pat=
h and=20
announces this path to RR.
> +++ Due to the BGP ID, for example, RR=20
prefers path p and spreads this
> path across the cluster.
> ++=
+=20
Knowing q, r, and p, PE2 chooses p as best path (r has lower MED
> th=
an q,=20
p comes along with a lower IGP distance than q): p < q < r
>=20
(according to best-external). Path r is still announced as best=20
external.
> +++ X knows p and r. As path q is not known, is chooses r=
=20
(lower IGP
> than p).
>
> --- The routing is stable and X=
=20
relies on that PE2 forwards traffic out
> of the system (via r). Howe=
ver,=20
PE2 intends to forward traffic via X to
> PE3. Forwarding between PE2=
 and=20
X forms a loop. Note that this behavior
> is stable, even if RR knows=
 path=20
q.
>
>
> Due to this (I know constructed but illustrative=
)=20
example, I agree to
> Jay and Randy. From my point of view, the draft=
=20
should contain a *very
> very clear* preamble that refers to the poss=
ible=20
risks. The draft may
> even contain a small example, e.g. the=20
configuration provided here.
>
> Maybe I have missed an importa=
nt=20
aspect in my considerations, in that
> case I highly appreciate=20
corrections and clarifications.
>
> Have a nice weekend and bes=
t=20
regards
>
> Uli
>
>
> Am 12.02.2012 um 22:09=
=20
schrieb Robert Raszuk:
>
>>
>>> Nope. It's exact=
ly=20
the opposite: Proponents of any changes to
>>> long-standing BG=
P=20
behaviors must bear the burden of proof to show that
>>> those=
=20
changes will not break any non-fatally-flawed=20
configurations.
>>
>> Please show how best external will =
break=20
anything.
>>
>>> If this cannot be demonstrated, then=
=20
best-external can still be made
>>> available, but only by opti=
ng-in=20
by explicitly choosing a non-default
>>>=20
behavior.
>>
>> You are still missing the point. When=20
best-external is configured it
>> is not that ASBR/PE router (not=
=20
acting as RR) will advertise something
>> different. It is that ro=
uter=20
will advertise it's best ebgp learned
>> path even if ibgp path is=
=20
selected as best. For the latter ASBR/PE by
>> default would not=20
advertise anything.
>>
>> With cluster external this is=20
different hence requirement in the draft
>> for client to client f=
ull=20
mesh.
>>
>> Regardless best-external is a optional=20
configuration. Where in the
>> draft you see a recommendation to m=
odify=20
the current 4271 default
>> behaviour ?
>>
>>>=
;=20
Also, "overall best path" is a local decision. Different routers=20
in
>>> an AS often do select different overall best paths to th=
e=20
same
>>> prefix.
>>
>> That can happen due to=
=20
consideration of next hop metric .. and this
>> has no bearing on =
the=20
topic discussed here. As mentioned before IBGP
>> path can win bes=
t=20
path selection based on MED or Local-Pref comparison
>> steps whic=
h are=20
evaluated before comparing distance metric to bgp next
>>=20
hop.
>>
>> R.
>>=20
_______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing=20
list
>> Idr@ietf.org <mailto:Idr@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

_______________________________________=
________
Idr=20
mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


--_000_7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391B3C4BB388EUSAACMS0701e_--

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From robert@raszuk.net  Sun Feb 19 03:02:40 2012
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Jakob,

> Robert, go back and do it again, but remember that MED from different
> ASs are not comparable.

Are we talking theory here or practice ? I was talking practice.

"always-compare-med" and "deterministic-med" are recommended and 
deployed configurations in vast majority of BGP networks today.

Best,
R.

From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com  Sun Feb 19 07:32:47 2012
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From: Jakob Heitz 
To: "robert@raszuk.net" 
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:32:04 -0500
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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I was talking standardization.

--
Jakob Heitz.


On Feb 19, 2012, at 3:02 AM, "Robert Raszuk"  wrote:

> Jakob,
>=20
>> Robert, go back and do it again, but remember that MED from different
>> ASs are not comparable.
>=20
> Are we talking theory here or practice ? I was talking practice.
>=20
> "always-compare-med" and "deterministic-med" are recommended and=20
> deployed configurations in vast majority of BGP networks today.
>=20
> Best,
> R.

From bruno.decraene@orange.com  Mon Feb 20 06:11:18 2012
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Hi Pedro, Rex, Enke, Pradosh, Hannes,

> This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will =
run from 2/11 - 2/25.

Please find below some proposed comments.

I guess sections 8 to 10 should be sub-sections of 7 and hence be numbered =
7.1 to 7.3.


"Early BGP implementations where very concerned with reducing state as they
   where limited to relatively low memory footprints (e.g. 16 MB)."
Sure, computing capacities have improved. But so does the number of BGP rou=
tes. So if your point is that control plane capacity is not a problem anymo=
re, IMHO you need to talk about both the evolution of capacities and the ev=
olution of routes / requirements. Then you could draw a conclusion.




"   o  Faster restoration of connectivity.  By providing additional

      paths, that may be used to fail over in case the primary path

      becomes invalid or is withdrawn."
Partially agreed. To some extent, those additional paths may not really be =
used for forwarding as the egress has not installed them in the FIB. IMO th=
is should be discussed.



"   The objective of this protocol extension is to improve the quality of

   the routing information known to a particular BGP mesh with minimum

   additional cost in terms of processing and state."

I would propose :s/quality/quantity



"with minimum additional cost in terms of processing and state."
Compared to what? E.g. is an additional path provided by best-external has =
less processing and state that an additional path provided by add-path?
IMHO, the key benefit of external best is that it does not require protocol=
 extension on peers.

Hence I would propose "   The objective of this protocol extension is to im=
prove the quantity of

   the routing information known to a particular BGP mesh with no protocol =
extension and no implementation change on BGP peers"





=A75. Advertisement Rules
All new (best external specific) advertisements are proposed as "MAY". Does=
 this mean that vanillia (RFC 4271) implementations are de facto compliant =
with draft-ietf-idr-best-external? (Hence compliance with draft-ietf-idr-be=
st-external does not mean anything?)
I would propose the additional text: "An implementation compliant with this=
 specification MUST implement the above advertisement rules. They SHOULD be=
 disabled by default". (Alternatively, you could restrict the "MUST" to rul=
es 1 and 4 if you prefer, but IMHO 1 & 4 are expected to be implemented by =
an implementation claiming compliance with this specification.



=AB whenever a GP speaker =BB
I guess :s/GP/BGP




=AB  Inconsistency between routing and forwarding may happen, whenever a

   GP speaker chooses to advertise an external route into IBGP that is

   different from the overall best route and its overall best is

   external. =BB

IMHO, It would help the reader to state whether this can happen with best-e=
xternal (my understanding is that this cannot). Or may be moving this secti=
on into appendix if it only applies to the original RFC 1771 specification =
and not to best external.

(I have the feeling that someone reading the specification quickly may thin=
k/fear that enabling best-external may lead to such inconsistency between r=
outing & forwarding)





8. Fast Connectivity Restoration

A drawback is that the best-external route, advertised in iBGP, can't be re=
adily used as backup because the backup egress has not installed it. IMO, t=
his section should more explicitly talks about this. Otherwise, most people=
/ingress routers will assume that all is fine since they know the backup ro=
ute. . The last sentence ("Note that...") is not enough IMHO. Otherwise it =
should say that the backup egress (i.e. routers compliant with best-externa=
l) SHOULD implement the preinstallation in the FIB of the back route).
In particular, when the nominal egress ASBR detects the failure of its exte=
rnal link/neighbor, it could locally switch to its pre-computed backup ASBR=
 (aka PE-CE FRR). But when it does so, the backup ASBR has no way to know t=
hat the nominal has failed and hence will forward the traffic back to the n=
ominal ASBR, forming a transient forwarding loop.

When BGP routes are MPLS labeled (e.g. SAFI 4, 128) may be one way to avoid=
 this could be to advertise the best-external route with a label pointing t=
o the external interface (hence bypassing the IP lookup/FIB and breaking th=
e forwarding loop). IMO, the draft should talk about this and recommend (SH=
OULD) this behavior.
For IP routes, there may be solutions also. The document should also talk a=
bout this. In the absence of solutions, people should be warned about this =
(both in this section and in section 11 "deployment considerations").


"there are 2 or clusters/sub-AS-es"
I guess :s/or/or more

Many thanks,
Best regards,
Bruno









From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan=
 Hares
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 4:09 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: shares@ndzh.com
Subject: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05


This is to start a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will ru=
n from 2/11 - 2/25.
Please send comments to the list.

Sue and John

-----------------


http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-best-external


   This document extends that procedure to operate in environments where
   Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are used and
   explains why advertising the additional routing information can
   improve convergence time without causing routing loops.

   Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn and
   avoidance of permanent route oscillation.



___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A023678PEXCVZYM11corpora_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











Hi Pedr=
o, Rex, Enke, Pradosh, Hannes,


&n=
bsp;


> This is to start a WGLC on=
 draft-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will run from 2/11 – 2/25.



&n=
bsp;


Please =
find below some proposed comments.


&n=
bsp;


I guess=
 sections 8 to 10 should be sub-sections of 7 and hence be numbered 7.1 to =
7.3.


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


“Early BGP implementations where very=
 concerned with reducing state as they


   where limited to relatively lo=
w memory footprints (e.g. 16 MB).”


Sure, c=
omputing capacities have improved. But so does the number of BGP routes. So=
 if your point is that control plane capacity is not a problem anymore, IMH=
O you need to talk about both the evolution
 of capacities and the evolution of routes / requirements. Then you could d=
raw a conclusion.


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


“ &nbs=
p; o  Faster restoration of connectivity.  By providing additiona=
l


      paths, that may be=
 used to fail over in case the primary path


      becomes invalid or=
 is withdrawn.”


Partial=
ly agreed. To some extent, those additional paths may not really be used fo=
r forwarding as the egress has not installed them in the FIB. IMO this shou=
ld be discussed.


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


“   The objective of this protoco=
l extension is to improve the quality of


   the routing information known to a p=
articular BGP mesh with minimum


   additional cost in terms of processi=
ng and state.”


&n=
bsp;


I would=
 propose :s/quality/quantity


 


“with minimum additional cost in terms of p=
rocessing and state.”


Compare=
d to what? E.g. is an additional path provided by best-external has less pr=
ocessing and state that an additional path provided by add-path?=



IMHO, t=
he key benefit of external best is that it does not require protocol extens=
ion on peers.


Hence I would propose “   The objective of this protocol extension is to imp=
rove the quantity of


   the routing information known to a p=
articular BGP mesh with no protocol extension and no implementation change =
on BGP peers”


 


 


=A75. Advertisement Rules


All new=
 (best external specific) advertisements are proposed as “MAY”.=
 Does this mean that vanillia (RFC 4271) implementations are de facto compl=
iant with draft-ietf-idr-best-external? (Hence compliance
 with draft-ietf-idr-best-external does not mean anything?)


I would=
 propose the additional text: “An implementation compliant with this =
specification MUST implement the above advertisement rules. They SHOULD be =
disabled by default”. (Alternatively, you could
 restrict the “MUST” to rules 1 and 4 if you prefer, but IMHO 1=
 & 4 are expected to be implemented by an implementation claiming compl=
iance with this specification.


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


=AB whenever a GP speaker =BB


I guess=
 :s/GP/BGP


&n=
bsp;


 


=AB  Inconsistency between routing and forwa=
rding may happen, whenever a


   GP speaker chooses to advertise an e=
xternal route into IBGP that is


   different from the overall best rout=
e and its overall best is


   external. =BB=



IMHO, It would help the reader to state wheth=
er this can happen with best-external (my understanding is that this cannot=
). Or may be moving this section into appendix if it only applies to the or=
iginal RFC 1771 specification and not to best external.

(I have the feeling that someone reading the =
specification quickly may think/fear that enabling best-external may lead t=
o such inconsistency between routing & forwarding)

 


 


8. Fast Connectivity Restoration


&n=
bsp;


A drawb=
ack is that the best-external route, advertised in iBGP, can’t be rea=
dily used as backup because the backup egress has not installed it. IMO, th=
is section should more explicitly talks about
 this. Otherwise, most people/ingress routers will assume that all is fine =
since they know the backup route. . The last sentence (“Note thatR=
30;”) is not enough IMHO. Otherwise it should say that the backup egr=
ess (i.e. routers compliant with best-external) SHOULD
 implement the preinstallation in the FIB of the back route).


In part=
icular, when the nominal egress ASBR detects the failure of its external li=
nk/neighbor, it could locally switch to its pre-computed backup ASBR (aka P=
E-CE FRR). But when it does so, the backup
 ASBR has no way to know that the nominal has failed and hence will forward=
 the traffic back to the nominal ASBR, forming a transient forwarding loop.=



&n=
bsp;


When BG=
P routes are MPLS labeled (e.g. SAFI 4, 128) may be one way to avoid this c=
ould be to advertise the best-external route with a label pointing to the e=
xternal interface (hence bypassing the
 IP lookup/FIB and breaking the forwarding loop). IMO, the draft should tal=
k about this and recommend (SHOULD) this behavior.


For IP =
routes, there may be solutions also. The document should also talk about th=
is. In the absence of solutions, people should be warned about this (both i=
n this section and in section 11 “deployment
 considerations”).


&n=
bsp;


“there are 2 or clusters/sub-AS-es”


I guess=
 :s/or/or more


&n=
bsp;


Many th=
anks,


Best re=
gards,


Bruno


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;


&n=
bsp;








From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Susan Hares

Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 4:09 AM

To: idr@ietf.org

Cc: shares@ndzh.com

Subject: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05






 


 


This is to start a WGLC on draf=
t-ietf-idr-best-eternal-05.txt which will run from 2/11 – 2/25.



Please send comments to the lis=
t.  


 


Sue and John =



 


-----------------


 


 


http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-idr-best-external


 


 


   This document extends that procedure to operate in environm=
ents where


   Route Reflection [RFC4456] or Confederations [RFC5065] are =
used and


   explains why advertising the additional routing information=
 can


   improve convergence time without causing routing loops.


 


   Additional benefits include reduction of inter-domain churn=
 and


   avoidance of permanent route oscillation.=



 


 






______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al=
tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorization.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, France Telecom - Orange shall not be liable if th=
is message was modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.




--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A023678PEXCVZYM11corpora_--

From robert@raszuk.net  Mon Feb 20 06:45:08 2012
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , Susan Hares 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Hello Bruno,

I am rather of the opinion that we should keep forwarding and control 
plane in separate documents.

Just like drafts: add-paths (draft-ietf-idr-add-paths) and 
fast-connectivity-restoration (draft-pmohapat-idr-fast-conn-restore).

The reason being that I may use other forwarding paradigms then MPLS or
IP/GRE.

Hello Authors,

Since we are at it and since I know there is a lot of confusion reg 
potential overlap between best-external and add-paths perhaps a small 
clarification in the deployment section would be useful.

Best regards,
R.


> 8. Fast Connectivity Restoration
>
> A drawback is that the best-external route, advertised in iBGP, can’t be
> readily used as backup because the backup egress has not installed it.
> IMO, this section should more explicitly talks about this. Otherwise,
> most people/ingress routers will assume that all is fine since they know
> the backup route. . The last sentence (“Note that…”) is not enough IMHO.
> Otherwise it should say that the backup egress (i.e. routers compliant
> with best-external) SHOULD implement the preinstallation in the FIB of
> the back route).
>
> In particular, when the nominal egress ASBR detects the failure of its
> external link/neighbor, it could locally switch to its pre-computed
> backup ASBR (aka PE-CE FRR). But when it does so, the backup ASBR has no
> way to know that the nominal has failed and hence will forward the
> traffic back to the nominal ASBR, forming a transient forwarding loop.
>
> When BGP routes are MPLS labeled (e.g. SAFI 4, 128) may be one way to
> avoid this could be to advertise the best-external route with a label
> pointing to the external interface (hence bypassing the IP lookup/FIB
> and breaking the forwarding loop). IMO, the draft should talk about this
> and recommend (SHOULD) this behavior.
>
> For IP routes, there may be solutions also. The document should also
> talk about this. In the absence of solutions, people should be warned
> about this (both in this section and in section 11 “deployment
> considerations”).
>


From bruno.decraene@orange.com  Mon Feb 20 08:53:20 2012
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , Susan Hares 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Hello Robert, all

>From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net] Sent: Monday, February 20, =
2012 3:45 PM
>
>Hello Bruno,
>
>I am rather of the opinion that we should keep forwarding and control
>plane in separate documents.

As people wish.
But IMO the draft needs to state that best-external alone is not enough to =
provide fast connectivity restoration. A forwarding plane feature is requir=
ed on the nominal egress (on the best external router). It could list a few=
, without going into details on the forwarding plane aspects.

>Just like drafts: add-paths (draft-ietf-idr-add-paths) and
>fast-connectivity-restoration (draft-pmohapat-idr-fast-conn-restore).
>
>The reason being that I may use other forwarding paradigms then MPLS or
>IP/GRE.

Well, I don't see this reason as a show stopper. The draft can explain the =
issue and the typical type of solutions required (typically, not performing=
 a regular IP lookup on the nominal egress). Then summarize the solutions f=
or typical deployments. If you use a specific forwarding paradigm, then it =
will be up to you to find the specific solution.

Best regards,
Bruno

>Hello Authors,
>
>Since we are at it and since I know there is a lot of confusion reg
>potential overlap between best-external and add-paths perhaps a small
>clarification in the deployment section would be useful.
>
>Best regards,
>R.
>
>
>> 8. Fast Connectivity Restoration
>>
>> A drawback is that the best-external route, advertised in iBGP, can't be
>> readily used as backup because the backup egress has not installed it.
>> IMO, this section should more explicitly talks about this. Otherwise,
>> most people/ingress routers will assume that all is fine since they know
>> the backup route. . The last sentence ("Note that...") is not enough IMH=
O.
>> Otherwise it should say that the backup egress (i.e. routers compliant
>> with best-external) SHOULD implement the preinstallation in the FIB of
>> the back route).
>>
>> In particular, when the nominal egress ASBR detects the failure of its
>> external link/neighbor, it could locally switch to its pre-computed
>> backup ASBR (aka PE-CE FRR). But when it does so, the backup ASBR has no
>> way to know that the nominal has failed and hence will forward the
>> traffic back to the nominal ASBR, forming a transient forwarding loop.
>>
>> When BGP routes are MPLS labeled (e.g. SAFI 4, 128) may be one way to
>> avoid this could be to advertise the best-external route with a label
>> pointing to the external interface (hence bypassing the IP lookup/FIB
>> and breaking the forwarding loop). IMO, the draft should talk about this
>> and recommend (SHOULD) this behavior.
>>
>> For IP routes, there may be solutions also. The document should also
>> talk about this. In the absence of solutions, people should be warned
>> about this (both in this section and in section 11 "deployment
>> considerations").
>>


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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From bruno.decraene@orange.com  Mon Feb 20 09:07:15 2012
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , Susan Hares 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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:s/nominal egress/backup egress

(actually, the router advertising a best-external route)

Sorry for the spam.

>-----Original Message-----
>
>Hello Robert, all
>
>>From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net] Sent: Monday, February 20,
>2012 3:45 PM
>>
>>Hello Bruno,
>>
>>I am rather of the opinion that we should keep forwarding and control
>>plane in separate documents.
>
>As people wish.
>But IMO the draft needs to state that best-external alone is not enough to
>provide fast connectivity restoration. A forwarding plane feature is
>required on the nominal egress (on the best external router). It could list
>a few, without going into details on the forwarding plane aspects.
>
>>Just like drafts: add-paths (draft-ietf-idr-add-paths) and
>>fast-connectivity-restoration (draft-pmohapat-idr-fast-conn-restore).
>>
>>The reason being that I may use other forwarding paradigms then MPLS or
>>IP/GRE.
>
>Well, I don't see this reason as a show stopper. The draft can explain the
>issue and the typical type of solutions required (typically, not performing
>a regular IP lookup on the nominal egress). Then summarize the solutions f=
or
>typical deployments. If you use a specific forwarding paradigm, then it wi=
ll
>be up to you to find the specific solution.
>
>Best regards,
>Bruno
>
>>Hello Authors,
>>
>>Since we are at it and since I know there is a lot of confusion reg
>>potential overlap between best-external and add-paths perhaps a small
>>clarification in the deployment section would be useful.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>R.
>>
>>
>>> 8. Fast Connectivity Restoration
>>>
>>> A drawback is that the best-external route, advertised in iBGP, can't be
>>> readily used as backup because the backup egress has not installed it.
>>> IMO, this section should more explicitly talks about this. Otherwise,
>>> most people/ingress routers will assume that all is fine since they know
>>> the backup route. . The last sentence ("Note that...") is not enough
>IMHO.
>>> Otherwise it should say that the backup egress (i.e. routers compliant
>>> with best-external) SHOULD implement the preinstallation in the FIB of
>>> the back route).
>>>
>>> In particular, when the nominal egress ASBR detects the failure of its
>>> external link/neighbor, it could locally switch to its pre-computed
>>> backup ASBR (aka PE-CE FRR). But when it does so, the backup ASBR has no
>>> way to know that the nominal has failed and hence will forward the
>>> traffic back to the nominal ASBR, forming a transient forwarding loop.
>>>
>>> When BGP routes are MPLS labeled (e.g. SAFI 4, 128) may be one way to
>>> avoid this could be to advertise the best-external route with a label
>>> pointing to the external interface (hence bypassing the IP lookup/FIB
>>> and breaking the forwarding loop). IMO, the draft should talk about this
>>> and recommend (SHOULD) this behavior.
>>>
>>> For IP routes, there may be solutions also. The document should also
>>> talk about this. In the absence of solutions, people should be warned
>>> about this (both in this section and in section 11 "deployment
>>> considerations").
>>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________________________________=
__
>_____________________________________________
>
>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu
>ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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>electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>France Telecom - Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete
>altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci
>
>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
>information that may be protected by law;
>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorization.
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>_______________________________________________
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From ju1738@att.com  Mon Feb 20 09:25:14 2012
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From: "UTTARO, JAMES" 
To: "'bruno.decraene@orange.com'" , "robert@raszuk.net" 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , Susan Hares 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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Comments In-Line..

Jim Uttaro

-----Original Message-----
From: idr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno=
.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:53 AM
To: robert@raszuk.net
Cc: idr@ietf.org; Susan Hares
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05

Hello Robert, all

>From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net] Sent: Monday, February 20, =
2012 3:45 PM
>
>Hello Bruno,
>
>I am rather of the opinion that we should keep forwarding and control
>plane in separate documents.

As people wish.
But IMO the draft needs to state that best-external alone is not enough to =
provide fast connectivity restoration. A forwarding plane feature is requir=
ed on the nominal egress (on the best external router). It could list a few=
, without going into details on the forwarding plane aspects.
[Jim U>] Agreed. Convergence is also a function of getting paths all the wa=
y to the ingress PE.. Need to not be constrained by the notion of a single =
AS here...So as an ex.. a unique RD is required to ensure the backup paths =
are unique in a set of AS topologies..Is there a plan to incorporate this f=
eature with the fast-connectivity draft?=20

>Just like drafts: add-paths (draft-ietf-idr-add-paths) and
>fast-connectivity-restoration (draft-pmohapat-idr-fast-conn-restore).
>
>The reason being that I may use other forwarding paradigms then MPLS or
>IP/GRE.

Well, I don't see this reason as a show stopper. The draft can explain the =
issue and the typical type of solutions required (typically, not performing=
 a regular IP lookup on the nominal egress). Then summarize the solutions f=
or typical deployments. If you use a specific forwarding paradigm, then it =
will be up to you to find the specific solution.

Best regards,
Bruno

>Hello Authors,
>
>Since we are at it and since I know there is a lot of confusion reg
>potential overlap between best-external and add-paths perhaps a small
>clarification in the deployment section would be useful.
>
>Best regards,
>R.
>
>
>> 8. Fast Connectivity Restoration
>>
>> A drawback is that the best-external route, advertised in iBGP, can't be
>> readily used as backup because the backup egress has not installed it.
>> IMO, this section should more explicitly talks about this. Otherwise,
>> most people/ingress routers will assume that all is fine since they know
>> the backup route. . The last sentence ("Note that...") is not enough IMH=
O.
>> Otherwise it should say that the backup egress (i.e. routers compliant
>> with best-external) SHOULD implement the preinstallation in the FIB of
>> the back route).
>>
>> In particular, when the nominal egress ASBR detects the failure of its
>> external link/neighbor, it could locally switch to its pre-computed
>> backup ASBR (aka PE-CE FRR). But when it does so, the backup ASBR has no
>> way to know that the nominal has failed and hence will forward the
>> traffic back to the nominal ASBR, forming a transient forwarding loop.
>>
>> When BGP routes are MPLS labeled (e.g. SAFI 4, 128) may be one way to
>> avoid this could be to advertise the best-external route with a label
>> pointing to the external interface (hence bypassing the IP lookup/FIB
>> and breaking the forwarding loop). IMO, the draft should talk about this
>> and recommend (SHOULD) this behavior.
>>
>> For IP routes, there may be solutions also. The document should also
>> talk about this. In the absence of solutions, people should be warned
>> about this (both in this section and in section 11 "deployment
>> considerations").
>>


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From stbryant@cisco.com  Mon Feb 20 09:35:31 2012
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:35:20 +0000
From: Stewart Bryant 
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To: John Scudder 
References: <20111011082615.5835598C274@rfc-editor.org> <1527269638-1318340138-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1931111644-@b15.c6.bise6.blackberry> <20111011134114.GA13958@nic.fr> <66C9C2B7-AF86-4AE5-A739-F1C5E146ED12@amsl.com> <8F3A4088-02A0-4079-9AD3-F6D9934B5A7D@juniper.net>
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Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , Stephane Bortzmeyer , Hares Susan , RFC Editor 
Subject: Re: [Idr] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6286 (2990)
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I set it hold for doc update

I don't think anyone is going to get am implementation wrong
because of the typo and hold for doc update is the state that
the RFC Editor guidelines suggest in these cases.

Stewart

On 13/10/2011 17:38, John Scudder wrote:
> Stewart, can we move this to "verified" please?  It's a noncontroversial typo correction.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --John
>
> On Oct 11, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Alice Hagens wrote:
>
>> FYI, the report has been corrected to "In" as intended:
>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6286&eid=2990
>>
>> Thank you.
>> RFC Editor/ah
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 01:35:39PM +0000,
>>> shares@ndzh.com  wrote
>>> a message of 33 lines which said:
>>>
>>>> Please confirm firs word in errata corrected text is "'in".
>>> Yes. Sorry. An error in the errata :-)
>>>
>>>
>> On Oct 11, 2011, at 4:26 AM, RFC Errata System wrote:
>>
>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6286,
>>> "Autonomous-System-Wide Unique BGP Identifier for BGP-4".
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> You may review the report below and at:
>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6286&eid=2990
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Type: Editorial
>>> Reported by: Stéphane Bortzmeyer
>>>
>>> Section: 3
>>>
>>> Original Text
>>> -------------
>>> In the AGGREAGTOR attribute of a route
>>>
>>> Corrected Text
>>> --------------
>>> n the AGGREGATOR attribute of a route
>>>
>>>
>>> Notes
>>> -----
>>>
>>>
>>> Instructions:
>>> -------------
>>> This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
>>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> RFC6286 (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-identifier-14)
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Title               : Autonomous-System-Wide Unique BGP Identifier for BGP-4
>>> Publication Date    : June 2011
>>> Author(s)           : E. Chen, J. Yuan
>>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>>> Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
>>> Area                : Routing
>>> Stream              : IETF
>>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>>
>


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For corporate legal information go to:

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From jhaas@slice.pfrc.org  Mon Feb 20 10:48:41 2012
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From: Jeffrey Haas 
To: Susan Hares 
Message-ID: <20120220184839.GA2822@slice>
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It looks cooked to me.

-- Jeff

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:36:50PM -0500, Susan Hares wrote:
>  
> 
> This is to start a 2 week WGLC on:
> 
>  
> 
>   Codification of AS 0 processing.
> 
>   draft-ietf-idr-as0-03
> 
>  
> 
> WGLC runs from 2/11/2012 - 2/25/2012.
> 
>  
> 
> Please send comments to list. 
> 
>  
> 
> Sue and John 

From jgs@juniper.net  Mon Feb 20 12:36:31 2012
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From: John Scudder 
To: "idr@ietf.org List" 
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:31:30 -0800
Thread-Topic: IETF-83 agenda topics
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Subject: [Idr] IETF-83 agenda topics
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Folks,

We're planning to meet at IETF-83.  Please forward any IDR agenda items you=
 might have to Sue and myself.  The deadline is March 13 by 13:00 U.S. East=
ern Time, although earlier is better.

If you plan to make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, =
"no Internet Draft - no time slot".  You should also plan to send your slid=
es to Sue and me no later than 24 hours prior to the meeting.

--John & Sue

From jhaas@slice.pfrc.org  Mon Feb 20 13:13:00 2012
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From: Jeffrey Haas 
To: John Scudder , Susan Hares 
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John, Sue,

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:31:30PM -0800, John Scudder wrote:
> We're planning to meet at IETF-83.  Please forward any IDR agenda items you might have to Sue and myself.  The deadline is March 13 by 13:00 U.S. Eastern Time, although earlier is better.

We'd like 10-15 minutes to present on 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rekhter-geo-distribution-control-00

10 minutes will probably be doable, but rushed.

I will be also preparing slides for an update on the BGP MIB work, but will
not be requesting a presentation timeslot.  Per earlier plenary suggestions,
I'll be preparing a presentation that I'm hoping you will upload to the
meeting materials and relevant discussion can happen (if at all) on the
mailing list.

-- Jeff

From randy@psg.com  Mon Feb 20 14:22:35 2012
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From: Randy Bush 
To: Bruno Decraene 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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>> I am rather of the opinion that we should keep forwarding and control
>> plane in separate documents.
> As people wish.

as v6 kept addressing separate from routing, right?  please no.

randy

From robert@raszuk.net  Mon Feb 20 14:35:06 2012
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References: <003601cce86a$85223250$8f6696f0$@ndzh.com> <13718_1329747058_4F425471_13718_6305_4_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A023678@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4F425C74.9020607@raszuk.net> <6877_1329756798_4F427A7E_6877_937_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A023765@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 
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Cc: Bruno Decraene , idr wg 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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> as v6 kept addressing separate from routing, right?  please no.

Indeed .. much better would be to have single RFC which not only defines 
the v6 address format, but also in the very same doc defines all new 
protocol extensions to distribute the new address - BGP, OSPFv3, ISIS, 
DNS, DHCP you name it ... all in one spec.

What an awesome idea !!!

r.



From randy@psg.com  Mon Feb 20 20:36:14 2012
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From: Randy Bush 
To: Bruno Decraene 
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Cc: idr wg 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC on the draft-ietf-idr-best-external-05
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>>> I am rather of the opinion that we should keep forwarding and control
>>> plane in separate documents.
>> As people wish.
> as v6 kept addressing separate from routing, right?  please no.

to be more clear and less sarcastic, jay, uli and others have pointed
out a non-trivial operational problem between the control and data plane
in this draft.  the way to solve that problem is not by removing the
data plane from this discussion or this document.

jay has made a reasonable seeming suggestion for solving the particular
problem he raised.

randy

From bruno.decraene@orange.com  Wed Feb 22 03:06:03 2012
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Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-reserved-extended-communities
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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-reserved-extended-communities
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Hi,

As a reminder, draft-ietf-idr-reserved-extended-communities currently propo=
ses to use the AS number O to get a global space of "generic four-octet AS =
specific" extended community (as defined in draft-ietf-idr-as4octet-extcomm=
-generic-subtype) in order to be able to get IANA assigned extended communi=
ties values from. (i.e. the equivalent of formerly "well known" RFC 1997 co=
mmunities).

Following some discussion on draft-ietf-idr-as0, another option is to use A=
S number 0x0000FFFF instead of AS 0. This seems also more in line with RFC =
1997 which use the same AS number (0xFFFF) for the same purpose (IANA assig=
ned communities).

Comments welcomed.

In the absence of objection within 2 weeks, I'll update the draft according=
ly (:s/0/0x0000FFFF).

Thanks
Regards,
Bruno

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From iesg-secretary@ietf.org  Fri Feb 24 10:34:26 2012
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Cc: idr mailing list , idr chair , RFC Editor 
Subject: [Idr] Protocol Action: 'Subcodes for BGP Finite State Machine Error' to	Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-idr-fsm-subcode-03.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'Subcodes for BGP Finite State Machine Error'
  (draft-ietf-idr-fsm-subcode-03.txt) as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Stewart Bryant and Adrian Farrel.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-fsm-subcode/




Technical Summary

The IDR working group is revising the BGP-4 specifications to
add additional error handling per the Grow Working Group’s request in draft-
grow-ops-reqs-for-bgp-error-handling-02. This draft defines operational sub-
codes for the BGP Finite State Machine Error that provide more information to
aid network operators in diagnosing BGP FSM issues and correlating network
events.

Working Group Summary

The document is a product of the IDR working group. The
document has working group consensus, and it is part of the 
IDR work in revising BGP error handling in response to 
GROW’s request.

Document Quality

The document provides the necessary specification for
implementers to use implement the additional error processing 
by providing a description of when to send the error codes 
(usage, section 3), and what error codes to send (Definition 
of error codes, section 2).

This BGP feature has been implemented in two separate 
implementation.

Personnel

Susan Hares is the document shepherd.
Stewart Bryant is the responsible Area Director.