From nobody Sun Feb 1 10:59:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372C11A9048; Sun, 1 Feb 2015 10:59:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iddoT3yEofKI; Sun, 1 Feb 2015 10:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD3D1A904D; Sun, 1 Feb 2015 10:59:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150201185915.8821.36380.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 10:59:15 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl-03.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 18:59:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : BGP Link-State Information Distribution Implementation Report Authors : Hannes Gredler Balaji Rajagopalan Chris Bowers Saikat Ray Manish Bhardwaj Filename : draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl-03.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2015-02-01 Abstract: This document is an implementation report for the BGP Link-State Information Distribution protocol. The editors did not verify the accuracy of the information provided by respondents. The respondents are experts with the implementations they reported on, and their responses are considered authoritative for the implementations for which their responses represent. Respondents were asked to only use the YES answer if the feature had at least been tested in the lab. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 2 07:46:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40531A700B; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:46:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MhfmAX6enNdi; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E42D1A7032; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:46:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Susan Hares" To: akatlas@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150202154633.11832.92902.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 07:46:33 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl.all@tools.ietf.org, idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl-03 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:46:41 -0000 Susan Hares has requested publication of draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl-03 as Informational on behalf of the IDR working group. Please verify the document's state at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl/ From nobody Mon Feb 2 07:59:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7791A8033; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:59:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HVSbIVWjFhJM; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E2B1A802A; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 07:59:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Susan Hares" To: akatlas@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150202155918.32090.84646.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 07:59:18 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis-03 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:59:26 -0000 Susan Hares has requested publication of draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis-03 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the IDR working group. Please verify the document's state at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis/ From nobody Mon Feb 2 08:42:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98A61A7009 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 08:41:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.354 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.354 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J2wiN-5I6Nxx for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 08:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3D91A874D for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 08:41:52 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "idr wg" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 11:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <00f001d03f07$1f9bce90$5ed36bb0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D03EDD.36C77440" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA/BowJ7F/Ih8+CQSKH1t89l3BqXg== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:41:59 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D03EDD.36C77440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2 week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report. You can find these drafts at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implement ation/ The draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability between Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD. Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange points, and include in your comments support or no support. Sue Hares and John Scudder ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D03EDD.36C77440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

This begins = a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2 week WG = adoption/LC for the associated WG report.

 

You can find = these drafts at:   

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-= route-server-implementation/

 

The = draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability between = Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD.

 

Please = comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange points, and = include in your comments support or no support.

 

 

Sue Hares = and John Scudder

------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D03EDD.36C77440-- From nobody Mon Feb 2 09:36:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 213B71A87BD for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 09:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.654 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.654 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jpm1ioqZgI9M for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 09:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFAA1A87BB for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 09:36:34 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'idr wg'" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 12:36:21 -0500 Message-ID: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011D_01D03EE4.DA199680" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA/DrP9AnR4BukQQH2q6r8fVU6pyw== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:36:36 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01D03EE4.DA199680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WG LC is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:42 AM To: idr wg Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2 week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report. You can find these drafts at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implement ation/ The draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability between Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD. Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange points, and include in your comments support or no support. Sue Hares and John Scudder ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01D03EE4.DA199680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

WG LC  is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015 =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:42 AM
To: = idr wg
Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on = draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server

 

 

This begins = a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2 week WG = adoption/LC for the associated WG report.

 

You can find = these drafts at:   

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-= route-server-implementation/

 

The = draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability between = Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD.

 

Please = comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange points, and = include in your comments support or no support.

 

 

Sue Hares = and John Scudder

------=_NextPart_000_011D_01D03EE4.DA199680-- From nobody Mon Feb 2 10:08:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6991A882E; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 10:08:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zNWnihJViaGL; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 10:08:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE131A8846; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 10:08:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150202180809.15589.96359.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 10:08:09 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-implementation-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:08:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Advertisement of Multiple Paths in BGP: Implementation Report Author : Alvaro Retana Filename : draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-implementation-00.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2015-02-02 Abstract: This document reports the results of an ADD-PATH implementation survey. The survey had 22 questions about implementations' support for advertising multiple paths in BGP. After a brief summary of the results, each response is listed. This document contains responses from six implementers who completed the survey. The editor did not use external means to verify the accuracy of the information submitted by the respondents. The respondents are considered experts on the products they reported on. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-implementation/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-implementation-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 2 18:05:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3CA1A1BE6; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 18:05:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2uJ2pRgUKX4e; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 18:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1818B1A1AA7; Mon, 2 Feb 2015 18:05:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150203020547.11356.59524.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:05:47 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 02:05:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : BGP Persistent Route Oscillation Solutions Authors : Daniel Walton Alvaro Retana Enke Chen John Scudder Filename : draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2015-02-02 Abstract: In this document we present two sets of paths for an address prefix that can be advertised by a BGP route reflector or confederation ASBR to eliminate the MED-induced route oscillations in a network. The first set involves all the available paths, and would achieve the same routing consistency as the full IBGP mesh. The second set, which is a subset of the first one, involves the neighbor-AS based Group Best Paths, and would be sufficient to eliminate the MED- induced route oscillations (subject to certain commonly adopted topological constrains). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 3 09:07:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100E91A1BE3 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 09:07:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VXUaPSx4R3ht; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 09:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19F81A1BFB; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 09:06:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@tools.ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150203170639.13512.3804.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 09:06:39 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 17:07:17 -0000 IANA review state changed to IANA OK - No Actions Needed ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ From nobody Wed Feb 4 07:25:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9FEB1A8A90 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:24:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.176 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ippST1CxPrBD for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-f169.google.com (mail-we0-f169.google.com [74.125.82.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D07D1A8A96 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:24:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-we0-f169.google.com with SMTP id u56so2434002wes.0 for ; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 07:24:49 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gGoXMb1iNWYq3MzTOwv6ame5cdKwTmQ62Ec9S0dYOYM=; b=MfSMZPuy5BOnZSRYn+aXFM8oKYxUC5y4HzKg8l1UHKRB6hDXUcMNJr9fmMUMXsKWRN j+86Iw6yZr0l0uTjf6vikIQ3R3g9uvv5AtrZSQwxbGbbsATCMysu7hJa8WnLoFpgVMFR Rd8QgIR7rurLXZwg3qclspgMnz4YmsFNpo3kcFwhBWoWbN5h6aEY/7Xxub0EfWGuXxio 42S8ThH4yuF+Vrge5rlYk/v8Wevi8RbnXVLemUn2FdigXf3UxTbR7yi1n/MiYl4ATRCx Bk9BmQfwBY4vqNmVhPnNB7Aj1g8QS9gaiUSj6oHfCSICaCFvOoh2mqpcTuWiSgdKSesH CjFw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmD9w05sAPCN2xgc8fhDicnCpab4mJ7GYjTFExFBkcGrTvP2yfNN68mXzFDbyB3Sy2EmlOn MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.73.239 with SMTP id o15mr45834302wiv.14.1423063488918; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 07:24:48 -0800 (PST) Sender: ear@intron.com.br Received: by 10.216.59.133 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:24:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 13:24:48 -0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: aNhV-1tBJc72d-7ah9pGWRz-Zq0 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Eduardo_Ascen=C3=A7o_Reis?= To: Susan Hares Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:24:54 -0000 Dear Chairs and WG, As an introduction, I am the technical manager and engineer leader of PTT.br - the Brazilian Internet Exchange (IX) Point project. PTT.br was started in 2004 and today it has 25 IX in production. Information about aggregated traffic (agregado), network topology (PIX) and participants AS (participantes) can be found for each location on the URL bellow: http://ptt.br/particip/sp By the way, on the participants pages, ATM means in Portuguese Acordo de Troca de Tr=C3=A1fego Multilateral or Multi-Lateral Peering Agreements (MLPA). For those interest on more information about PTT.br, please take a look at [1] and [2] references in English. PTT.br always used route servers as the control plane controller for the MLPA on all and each IX location. MLPA respond for more than 70% of traffic (the remaining if associated with Bilateral Peering Agreements) and it has a fundamental importance on PTT.br growth experience. On most PTT.br IX locations two route servers are used for redundancy. The biggest and most important (number of participants and traffic) location is Sao Paulo, followed not close by Rio de Janeiro. On these both locations PTT.br is using since last year four route servers for network topology and implementation redundancy. PTT.br provides looking glass (LG) access to route collector for real time check. Sao Paulo IX lg is also running quagga and can be accessed by: telnet lg.sp.ptt.br PTT.br has intensive use of all 3 route servers implementations (bird, cisco and quagga) and confirm they accordance to the Implementation Report. Finally I strongly support both documents. Regards, Eduardo Ascen=C3=A7o Reis eascenco [ @nic.br | @ptt.br | @gmail.com ] [1] Peering in Brazil PTT.br IETF 88th =E2=80=93 ISOC Panel Regional Interconnection Overview Vancouver, BC, Canada November 6, 2013 http://ptt.br/doc/nic.br.ptt.br.ietf88.isoc.peering-brazil.2013110503.pdf [2] PTT.br Report of the FIFA World Cup Brazil 2014 Euro-ix Bucharest, Romania October 29th 2014 http://ptt.br/doc/nic.br.ptt.br.worldcup.report.euro-ix.20141024.pdf 2015-02-02 15:36 GMT-02:00 Susan Hares : > WG LC is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015 > > > > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:42 AM > To: idr wg > Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server > > > > > > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2 > week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report. > > > > You can find these drafts at: > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implem= entation/ > > > > The draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability betw= een > Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD. > > > > Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange point= s, > and include in your comments support or no support. > > > > > > Sue Hares and John Scudder > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > From nobody Wed Feb 4 07:26:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BE11A8AAF for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:26:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQuT5L3CdqPj for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9835B1A8A90 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2015 07:26:40 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: =?UTF-8?Q?'Eduardo_Ascen=C3=A7o_Reis'?= References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 10:26:33 -0500 Message-ID: <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQGp87fZwbTzpSPcKGsJqPSTT/jeKwHPevSfnR66YAA= X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'idr wg' Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:26:42 -0000 Eduardo: Thank you for your excellent feedback. This really helps us understand = the quality of this work.=20 Sue=20 -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo = Ascen=C3=A7o Reis Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 10:25 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server = (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Dear Chairs and WG, As an introduction, I am the technical manager and engineer leader of = PTT.br - the Brazilian Internet Exchange (IX) Point project. PTT.br was started in 2004 and today it has 25 IX in production. Information about aggregated traffic (agregado), network topology (PIX) and participants AS (participantes) can be found for each location = on the URL bellow: http://ptt.br/particip/sp By the way, on the participants pages, ATM means in Portuguese Acordo de = Troca de Tr=C3=A1fego Multilateral or Multi-Lateral Peering Agreements = (MLPA). For those interest on more information about PTT.br, please take a look = at [1] and [2] references in English. PTT.br always used route servers as the control plane controller for the = MLPA on all and each IX location. MLPA respond for more than 70% of traffic (the remaining if associated = with Bilateral Peering Agreements) and it has a fundamental importance = on PTT.br growth experience. On most PTT.br IX locations two route servers are used for redundancy. The biggest and most important (number of participants and traffic) = location is Sao Paulo, followed not close by Rio de Janeiro. On these = both locations PTT.br is using since last year four route servers for = network topology and implementation redundancy. PTT.br provides looking glass (LG) access to route collector for real = time check. Sao Paulo IX lg is also running quagga and can be accessed by: telnet lg.sp.ptt.br PTT.br has intensive use of all 3 route servers implementations (bird, = cisco and quagga) and confirm they accordance to the Implementation = Report. Finally I strongly support both documents. Regards, Eduardo Ascen=C3=A7o Reis eascenco [ @nic.br | @ptt.br | @gmail.com ] [1] Peering in Brazil PTT.br IETF 88th =E2=80=93 ISOC Panel Regional Interconnection Overview Vancouver, BC, Canada November 6, 2013 http://ptt.br/doc/nic.br.ptt.br.ietf88.isoc.peering-brazil.2013110503.pdf= [2] PTT.br Report of the FIFA World Cup Brazil 2014 Euro-ix Bucharest, Romania October 29th 2014 http://ptt.br/doc/nic.br.ptt.br.worldcup.report.euro-ix.20141024.pdf 2015-02-02 15:36 GMT-02:00 Susan Hares : > WG LC is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015 > > > > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:42 AM > To: idr wg > Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server > > > > > > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and=20 > a 2 week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report. > > > > You can find these drafts at: > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-imp > lementation/ > > > > The draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability=20 > between Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD. > > > > Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange=20 > points, and include in your comments support or no support. > > > > > > Sue Hares and John Scudder > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Feb 4 08:08:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5B31A1A16; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:39:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9We_Fgn0J5O5; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org (smtp01.icann.org [192.0.33.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8FE31A1ADC; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 08:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from request3.lax.icann.org (request1.lax.icann.org [10.32.11.221]) by smtp1.lax.icann.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t13GdSHW018186; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 16:39:28 GMT Received: by request3.lax.icann.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id 679B9C2027A; Tue, 3 Feb 2015 16:39:28 +0000 (UTC) RT-Owner: pearl.liang From: "Pearl Liang via RT" In-Reply-To: <20150130195408.12752.69596.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150130195408.12752.69596.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: X-RT-Loop-Prevention: IANA X-RT-Ticket: IANA #806559 X-Managed-BY: RT 4.2.9 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) X-RT-Originator: pearl.liang@icann.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:39:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 08:07:46 -0800 Cc: idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: [Idr] [IANA #806559] Last Call: (Autonomous System Migration Features and Their Effects on the BGP AS_PATH Attribute) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: drafts-lastcall@iana.org List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:39:36 -0000 (BEGIN IANA LAST CALL COMMENTS) IESG/Authors/WG Chairs: IANA has reviewed draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03, which is currently in Last Call, and has the following comments: We understand that, upon approval of this document, there are no IANA Actions that need completion. While it is helpful for the IANA Considerations section of the document to remain in place upon publication, if the authors prefer to remove it, IANA doesn't object. If this assessment is not accurate, please respond as soon as possible. Thanks, Pearl Liang ICANN (END IANA LAST CALL COMMENTS) On Fri Jan 30 19:54:33 2015, iesg-secretary@ietf.org wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from the Inter-Domain Routing WG (idr) to > consider the following document: > - 'Autonomous System Migration Features and Their Effects on the BGP > AS_PATH Attribute' > as Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2015-02-13. Exceptionally, comments may be > sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the > beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > > This draft discusses some BGP features for ASN migration that, while > commonly used, are not formally part of the BGP4 protocol > specification and may be vendor-specific in exact implementation. It > is necessary to document these de facto standards to ensure that they > are properly supported in future BGP protocol work such as BGPSec. > > > > > The file can be obtained via > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ballot/ > > > No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. > > From nobody Thu Feb 5 02:22:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99C21A01BA for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 02:22:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fRD1Gh-v6JCS for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 02:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A0681A01A8 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 02:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t15AM8DF013740 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 10:22:08 GMT Received: from 950129200 (089144230098.atnat0039.highway.a1.net [89.144.230.98]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t15AM5wZ013665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 10:22:08 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 10:22:06 -0000 Message-ID: <008401d0412d$994ba670$cbe2f350$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdBAkfWmgHpRHAKtR4yJ+ecQgBiPQw== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21304.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--18.194-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--18.194-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: K+sgZLSnUSD8hk9+syq4GfHkpkyUphL9Ud7Bjfo+5jT0IKAowY45NvZG deBv2wq0r6dMYfBuaBHF0uOXOIY2OenOhl8kAE66kxIExNA2JIBbzVNxv/059mtEzrC9eANpajB VF1o76zPr/0HJdxo8D726V6COZvN4oqesYRoqSFkD0YRl9ME95cMdI0UcXEHzh1HRT7OZfd+nOm Bs4/7O1IgVg/5Vy8bNPe2oz1LoL+cWpnc5ffWbfam4PbloS2C3+KgiyLtJrSCyd65qZFFPkzpbf dTAcNXm4vM1YF6AJbZcLc3sLtjOt/rSLxk84zj9seWplitmp0j6C0ePs7A07SQvY0ueKrc14kny saL7H33jCmEG7S5HTCgAdryGzo8B0x/FufExbSs= Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Heads-up: IETF Last Call draft-ietf-bess-orf-covering-prefixes-03.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 10:22:14 -0000 I think IDR people not present in BESS will want to look at this during IETF last call. Comments (as usual) to ietf@ietf.org Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of The IESG > Sent: 04 February 2015 14:08 > To: IETF-Announce > Cc: bess@ietf.org > Subject: [bess] Last Call: (Covering > Prefixes Outbound Route Filter for BGP-4) to Proposed Standard > > > The IESG has received a request from the BGP Enabled Services WG (bess) > to consider the following document: > - 'Covering Prefixes Outbound Route Filter for BGP-4' > as Proposed Standard > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2015-02-18. Exceptionally, comments may be > sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the > beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > This document defines a new Outbound Route Filter (ORF) type, called > the "Covering Prefixes ORF (CP-ORF)". CP-ORF is applicable in > Virtual Hub-and-Spoke VPNs. It also is applicable in BGP/MPLS > Ethernet VPN (EVPN) networks. > > > The file can be obtained via > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-orf-covering-prefixes/ > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-orf-covering-prefixes/ballot/ > > > The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2397/ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2398/ > > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess From nobody Thu Feb 5 06:59:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B121A890C; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 06:59:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bJvXRHrWUhRV; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 06:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02A41A903E; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 06:58:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150205145800.26403.87447.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 06:58:00 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 14:59:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action Authors : James Uttaro Jeffrey Haas Matthieu Texier Andy Karch Saikat Ray Adam Simpson Wim Henderickx Filename : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2015-02-04 Abstract: Flow-spec is an extension to BGP that allows for the dissemination of traffic flow specification rules. This has many possible applications but the primary one for many network operators is the distribution of traffic filtering actions for DDoS mitigation. The flow-spec standard [RFC 5575] defines a redirect-to-VRF action for policy-based forwarding but this mechanism can be difficult to use, particularly in networks without L3 VPN infrastructure. This draft defines a new redirect-to-IP flow-spec action that provides a simpler method of policy-based forwarding. The details of the action, including the IPv4 or IPv6 target address, are encoded in newly defined BGP extended communities. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Feb 5 13:08:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C5F1A8B84 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:08:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.926 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.926 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e9thFm5S7-nE for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdpipgw02.twcable.com (cdpipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.59.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6023A1A8BC4 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:06:46 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.12 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,525,1418101200"; d="scan'208,217";a="649778121" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB03.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.12]) by cdpipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 05 Feb 2015 15:57:22 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB03.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.12]) with mapi; Thu, 5 Feb 2015 16:06:46 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Alia Atlas , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration@tools.ietf.org" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 16:06:43 -0500 Thread-Topic: AD review and progression of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 Thread-Index: AdBBh6X4GfsgwsenSym3rElrQ0uaug== Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D0F944AD42355wesleygeorgetwcablecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf. org" Subject: Re: [Idr] AD review and progression of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 21:08:10 -0000 --_000_D0F944AD42355wesleygeorgetwcablecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWxpYSDigJMgYWNrIGFuZCB0aGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHRoZSByZXZpZXcuIFNpbmNlIHlvdXIgY29t bWVudHMgYXJlIG1vcmUgbWlub3Igb24gdGhpcyBkcmFmdCB0aGFuIHRoZSBTSURSIG9uZSwgSSB3 aWxsIHdhaXQgdG8gbWFrZSB0aG9zZSBjaGFuZ2VzIHdoZW4gSSBpbmNvcnBvcmF0ZSBhbnkgb3Ro ZXIgSUVURiBsYXN0IGNhbGwgY29tbWVudHMuDQoNCnJlOiAiZXhpc3RpbmcgQkdQIHNlY3VyaXR5 IG1lY2hhbmlzbXMiIC0gSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2Ugc3VyZSB0aGF0IEknbSBpbmNsdWRpbmcgdGhl IHNwZWNpZmljIHRoaW5ncyB5b3UgaGFkIGluIG1pbmQuIEFyZSB3ZSBqdXN0IHRhbGtpbmcgYWJv dXQgQkdQIHNlc3Npb24gYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kL29yIEdUU00sIG9yIGlzIHRoZXJlIHNv 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ZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGFuZCBhbnkgY29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHBy aW50b3V0Ljxicj4NCjwvZm9udD4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_D0F944AD42355wesleygeorgetwcablecom_-- From nobody Fri Feb 6 14:42:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B13C1A8792; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:42:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iRbFY_8NNWXV; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFC61A6F96; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "idr wg" References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> In-Reply-To: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 17:42:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D04234.44563F60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIyIa+OW8V9HkmziikvEba5jtd8kpwgdpuw Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, NETCONF , netmod@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 22:42:37 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D04234.44563F60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_01D3_01D04234.44563F60" ------=_NextPart_001_01D3_01D04234.44563F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IDR WG will hold an interim on 2/9/2015 that focuses on BGP Yang = modules. The agenda is below.=20 =20 Sue Hares and John Scudder=20 =20 --------- =20 Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) =20 1) A review of draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 (Keyur Patel) [30 minutes]=20 =20 2) Overview of Policy Yang drafts in IETF (Sue Hares) [10 minutes]=20 =20 Other policy drafts to read=20 = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/ = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-netmod-yang-policy-dm/ = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-bnp-info-model/ = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hareskini-i2rs-pbr-info-model/ =20 3) Discussion comparing 2 BGP Yang modules [30 minutes]=20 draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00=20 =20 = https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/openconfig =20 =20 From: IDR Working Group [mailto:messenger@webex.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 4:48 PM To: shares@ndzh.com Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules =20 Hello,=20 IDR Working Group invites you to join this WebEx meeting.=20 =20 =20 =20 IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules=20 Monday, February 9, 2015=20 10:00 am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00) | 2 hrs=20 =20 =20 =20 = Join WebEx meeting=20 =20 Meeting number:=20 646 680 229=20 Meeting password: bgpyang =20 =20 =20 Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 646 680 229 Toll-free calling = restrictions =20 =20 =20 = Add this meeting to your calendar. =20 =20 =20 Can't join the meeting? Contact = support.=20 =20 =20 =20 IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_01D3_01D04234.44563F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IDR WG will hold an interim on 2/9/2015 that focuses on BGP Yang = modules.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The agenda is below.

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder

 

---------

 

Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am)=C2=A0

1) A review of draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 (Keyur Patel) [30 = minutes]

 

2) Overview of Policy Yang drafts in IETF (Sue Hares) [10 minutes] =

 

Other policy drafts to read

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-netmod-yang-policy-dm/

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-bnp-info-model/

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hareskini-i2rs-pbr-info-model/=

 

3) Discussion comparing 2 BGP Yang modules [30 minutes] =

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 =

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/openconfig

 

 

From:= = IDR Working Group [mailto:messenger@webex.com]
Sent: Friday, = February 06, 2015 4:48 PM
To: = shares@ndzh.com
Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim = 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules

 

Hello,

IDR Working Group invites you to join this WebEx meeting. =

 

 

 

IDR Interim 2/9 = - BGP Yang Modules =

Monday, February 9, 2015

10:00 am  |  Eastern Standard Time (New York, = GMT-05:00)  |  2 hrs =

 

 

 

Join = WebEx meeting =

 

Meeting number:

646 680 229

Meeting password:

bgpyang

 

 

 

Join by = phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)

Access code: 646 680 229

Toll-free = calling = restrictions

 

 

 

Add this = meeting to your = calendar.

 

 

 

Can't join the meeting? Contact support. =

 

 

 

= IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session.

 

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Join WebEx = meeting =
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Meeting = password:bgpyang
 
 
Join by = phone 
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1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada) 
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IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the session.=0A= SUMMARY:IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules=0A= PRIORITY:5=0A= CLASS:PUBLIC=0A= BEGIN:VALARM=0A= TRIGGER:-PT5M=0A= ACTION:DISPLAY=0A= DESCRIPTION:Reminder=0A= END:VALARM=0A= END:VEVENT=0A= END:VCALENDAR=0A= ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D04234.44563F60-- From nobody Fri Feb 6 14:52:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780681A87AB for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:52:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qbPo81ufqZzh for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B15B1A6F30 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 14:52:30 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "idr wg" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 17:52:16 -0500 Message-ID: <01f201d0425f$8f807070$ae815150$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F3_01D04235.A6AB2BC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdBCXpsJvpVjk8yUS2CpJ8AOtmfmQg== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Request for Participation - IDR interim on 2/9/2015 at 10-11:30 ET (7-8:30 PT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 22:52:31 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F3_01D04235.A6AB2BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IDR WG: The 2/9/2015 is the second in a series of virtual interims to discuss proposal for BGP yang modules. The IDR WG is evaluating two proposals for a BGP yang modules. The IDR WG is heading toward a decision on a BGP Yang module in March. If you are planning to use BGP yang modules or developing BGP yang modules, this virtual interim provides you with an overview of the draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 and a period to discuss with the authors its structure. You can find slides for this meeting at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/02/09/idr/proceedings.html In addition, we will be discussing the differences between the OpenConfig yang modules presented at the 1/26/2015 virtual interim. The OpenConfig module can be found at: https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/openconfig The presentation slides from 1/26/2015 virtual interim are available at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/26/idr/proceedings.html Sue Hares and John Scudder ------=_NextPart_000_01F3_01D04235.A6AB2BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IDR = WG:

 

The 2/9/2015 is the second in a series of virtual = interims to discuss proposal for BGP yang modules.   The IDR = WG is evaluating two proposals for a BGP yang modules.  The IDR WG = is heading toward a decision on a BGP Yang module in March. =

 

If you are planning to use BGP yang modules or = developing BGP yang modules, this virtual interim provides you with an = overview of the  draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 and a period to = discuss with the authors its structure.  You can find slides for = this meeting at:

 

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/02/09/idr/= proceedings.html

 

In addition, = we will be discussing the differences between the OpenConfig yang = modules presented at the 1/26/2015 virtual interim.

 

The = OpenConfig module can be found at:

 

https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/openco= nfig

 

The presentation slides from 1/26/2015 virtual interim = are available at:

 

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/26/idr/proceeding= s.html

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder =

------=_NextPart_000_01F3_01D04235.A6AB2BC0-- From nobody Sat Feb 7 06:51:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5051A8735; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 06:48:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pCD7ssjIPJhn; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 06:48:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17D331A8731; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 06:48:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=491; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1423320504; x=1424530104; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=XgU3GPNTHQq2fv15ivCYBbae6zwDgQSLVRns6+wnaW0=; b=gTYaO3dvNq5JZofQxKmpVFbminotOHXTYMV8k691/zuE+yXy4dhX9BD+ /BrAi/ifPz7BJIFhcGmIIe+9hneNnrX/6L/x+M65uOw/+brHdYh5CLEfq RwC+easGARehyyIeXYqLr0cjv784/ZO2rO5Efq1Z3IdkrJyZKLIbRpTHu 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A/BQCbJNZU/4ENJK1bgwZSWgTCcgqFJ0oCgQ9DAQEBAQEBfIQMAQEBBAEBATc0CxACAQgYHhAnCxwJAgQBDQWILQ3PPgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARMEjEgBgy8HhCoBBI8biSyScCKCDyOBPG+BRH4BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,535,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="121483980" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2015 14:48:23 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t17EmNW4024643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 Feb 2015 14:48:23 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.118]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 08:48:23 -0600 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" , Susan Hares , idr wg Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules Thread-Index: AQHQQr8Dw4Yj9R/hCUyYBX1U1m3HoZzlRMMA Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 14:48:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.24.185.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2609C62857BBC14196B149647A39CF38@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , NETCONF , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 14:48:25 -0000 Hi Bert, If you look at the WebEx, it is 10 AM EST (GMT - 5). Acee=20 On 2/7/15, 2:43 AM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wrote: >On 06/02/15 23:42, Susan Hares wrote: >> Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) >any specifics on time zone? > >we are operating in an INTERNATIONAL/AROUND-THE-GLOB setting, are we not? > >Bert > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sat Feb 7 08:30:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86ED81A1AEA; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 08:28:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ez6SrlgQlGUc; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 08:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1D51A0084; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 08:28:49 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Bert Wijnen \(IETF\)'" , "'idr wg'" References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 11:28:40 -0500 Message-ID: <003001d042f3$22c77ed0$68567c70$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIyIa+OW8V9HkmziikvEba5jtd8kgJZ/j75Awex5hcBDXZmPJvuKZaQ Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, 'NETCONF' , netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 16:28:51 -0000 Bert: 10 - 11:30 am ET. My apologies for missing it. Sue -----Original Message----- From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 9:48 AM To: Bert Wijnen (IETF); Susan Hares; idr wg Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org; NETCONF; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules Hi Bert, If you look at the WebEx, it is 10 AM EST (GMT - 5). Acee On 2/7/15, 2:43 AM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wrote: >On 06/02/15 23:42, Susan Hares wrote: >> Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) >any specifics on time zone? > >we are operating in an INTERNATIONAL/AROUND-THE-GLOB setting, are we not? > >Bert > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Feb 9 06:38:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB911A8877 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2015 13:48:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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boundary="----=_Part_40048_1665740351.1423259295165" X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 06:37:30 -0800 Subject: [Idr] WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 21:48:26 -0000 ------=_Part_40048_1665740351.1423259295165 Content-Type: multipart/Alternative; boundary="----=_Part_40049_1501256965.1423259295165" ------=_Part_40049_1501256965.1423259295165 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 CkhlbGxvLAoKSURSIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAgaW52aXRlcyB5b3UgdG8gam9pbiB0aGlzIFdlYkV4 IG1lZXRpbmcuCgoKSURSIEludGVyaW0gMi85IC0gQkdQIFlhbmcgTW9kdWxlcwpNb25kYXksIEZl YnJ1YXJ5IDksIDIwMTUKMTA6MDAgYW0gIHwgIEVhc3Rlcm4gU3RhbmRhcmQgVGltZSAoTmV3IFlv 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idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2A91A1A6A; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 00:43:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyI_5sE2K77m; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 00:43:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net [194.109.24.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 187B21A8938; Sat, 7 Feb 2015 00:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from Macintosh-6.fritz.box ([83.163.239.181]) by smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net with ESMTP id pLjl1p00G3vXPcr01LjnYu; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 09:43:47 +0100 Message-ID: <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 09:43:45 +0100 From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Susan Hares , idr wg References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 06:37:30 -0800 Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, NETCONF , netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 08:43:52 -0000 On 06/02/15 23:42, Susan Hares wrote: > Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) any specifics on time zone? we are operating in an INTERNATIONAL/AROUND-THE-GLOB setting, are we not? Bert From nobody Mon Feb 9 06:42:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C5B51A0091; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 00:29:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WqiFFcAlpwkG; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 00:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net [194.109.24.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DBB91A007E; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 00:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from Macintosh-6.fritz.box ([83.163.239.181]) by smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net with ESMTP id q8VY1p00E3vXPcr018VZeP; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 09:29:36 +0100 Message-ID: <54D86FEC.6030004@bwijnen.net> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 09:29:32 +0100 From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Susan Hares , "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , 'idr wg' References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> <003001d042f3$22c77ed0$68567c70$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <003001d042f3$22c77ed0$68567c70$@ndzh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 06:37:30 -0800 Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, 'NETCONF' , netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 08:29:43 -0000 On 07/02/15 17:28, Susan Hares wrote: > Bert: > > 10 - 11:30 am ET. My apologies for missing it. No problem. That time is probably difficult or impossible for me. Bert > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 9:48 AM > To: Bert Wijnen (IETF); Susan Hares; idr wg > Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org; NETCONF; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim > 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules > > Hi Bert, > > If you look at the WebEx, it is 10 AM EST (GMT - 5). > > Acee > > On 2/7/15, 2:43 AM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wrote: > >> On 06/02/15 23:42, Susan Hares wrote: >>> Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) >> any specifics on time zone? >> >> we are operating in an INTERNATIONAL/AROUND-THE-GLOB setting, are we not? >> >> Bert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > From nobody Mon Feb 9 06:44:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD04A1A040B; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 06:36:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.155 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.155 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9r_ptshYfuu6; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 06:36:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A3721A040C; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 06:36:43 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "idr wg" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 09:36:34 -0500 Message-ID: <002501d04475$ce534350$6af9c9f0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01D0444B.E581A820" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdBEdai3z7yWVzjrTOqO+IQwBqOYNg== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] IDR interim meeting on February 9th - BGP Yang modules - Begins in 30 minutes X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 14:36:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D0444B.E581A820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules Monday, February 9, 2015 10:00 am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00) | 2 hrs Join WebEx meeting https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m4abcb89450e5dfb6c1288168e2123820 Meeting number: 646 680 229 Meeting password: bgpyang Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 646 680 229 Toll-free calling restrictions Agenda Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) 1) A review of draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 (Keyur Patel) [30 minutes] 2) Overview of Policy Yang drafts in IETF (Sue Hares) [10 minutes] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-netmod-yang-policy-dm/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-bnp-info-model/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hareskini-i2rs-pbr-info-model/ 3) Discussion of drafts 3) Discussion comparing 2 BGP Yang modules [30 minutes] draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/openconfig Questions for the discussion: 1) Should we use base-BGP versus extension (Yang augmentation) approach? If so, what is the minimal subset? 2) Does the container form provide values in a) pulling the status of a BGP neighbor or a group of neighbors b) How should 4) Summary and Next steps (5 minutes) ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D0444B.E581A820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IDR = Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules

Monday, February 9, 2015

10:00 am  |  Eastern Standard Time (New = York, GMT-05:00)  |  2 hrs

 

Join WebEx = meeting

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm4abcb89450e5d= fb6c1288168e2123820

 

 

Meeting = number:            646 = 680 229

Meeting = password:         = bgpyang

 

Join by phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: = 646 680 229

Toll-free calling = restrictions

 

Agenda

Agenda: (75 = minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) 

1) A = review of draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 (Keyur Patel) [30 minutes] =

 

2) Overview of Policy Yang drafts in IETF (Sue Hares) = [10 minutes]

 

         &= nbsp;      = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-rtgwg-policy-model-00<= /p>

         &= nbsp;      = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/

         &= nbsp;      = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-netmod-yang-policy-dm/

         &= nbsp;      = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-bnp-info-model/

         &= nbsp;      http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hareskini-i2rs-pbr-info-model/=

3) Discussion of drafts =

 

3) Discussion comparing 2 BGP Yang modules [30 = minutes]

    draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 =

 

         &= nbsp;      = https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/openconfig

         &= nbsp;     

= Questions for the discussion:

   1) Should we use base-BGP versus = extension (Yang augmentation) approach?

      If so, what is the = minimal subset?

         &= nbsp;        

   2) Does the container form provide = values in

         &= nbsp;      a) pulling the status of a BGP = neighbor or a group of neighbors

         &= nbsp;      b) How should

 

4) Summary = and Next steps (5 minutes)

         &= nbsp;     

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D0444B.E581A820-- From nobody Mon Feb 9 13:12:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA251A88B8; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:23:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jHLenQGdj59l; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9511A88BD; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:23:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF Announcement List" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150209202331.5509.19188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 12:23:31 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] CORRECTION: IDR Working Group Virtual Interim Meeting: 2 March 2015 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 20:23:35 -0000 The previously-announced Inter-Domain Routing (IDR) virtual interim meeting for 2015-03-05 will instead be held on 2015-03-02 from 10-11:30 AM EST (1500-1630 UTC). The focus of this virtual interim is Yang Data Modules for BGP. WebEx information will follow on the IDR WG mailing list. On Jan 26, 2015, at 3:08 PM, IESG Secretary wrote: > The Inter-Domain Routing (IDR) Working Group will hold virtual interim > meetings on 9 February 2015 and 5 March 2015 from 1000-1130 EST > (1500-1630 UTC). > > 2015-02-09: BGP Yang Modules and Flow Specification drafts > > 2015-03-05: BGP Yang Modules (Corrected date: 2015-03-02) > > WebEx information will follow on the IDR WG mailing list. From nobody Tue Feb 10 04:26:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881E41A01E7; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 04:26:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jujMeIUbm79k; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 04:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A85F1A019B; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 04:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45A2E26404F; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:26:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.30]) by omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D8EA2238067; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:26:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([169.254.4.53]) by OPEXCLILH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([10.114.31.30]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:26:00 +0100 From: To: "ospf@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org list (isis-wg@ietf.org)" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI implementation Thread-Index: AdBFLLfJ87T7mg7qSBKOVExsw2JGuw== Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:26:00 +0000 Message-ID: <12023_1423571161_54D9F8D8_12023_1801_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1A@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_006_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.12.16.112421 Archived-At: Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Subject: [Idr] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI implementation X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:26:08 -0000 --_006_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_"; type="multipart/alternative" --_005_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_" --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, A lot of us are currently working on Yang model drafts. In the framework of= routing protocols related drafts, we have some discussion regarding how to= model the configuration of routing protocols and especially do it need to = be routing-instance centric or protocol centric (see slides for quick expla= nation of the difference). This is a cross protocol discussion, as we would= like to apply the same design to all. In order to decide how to progress on this major design point, one point i= s to evaluate current implementations and how many are routing-instance cen= tric and protocol centric. The famous implementations are well known, but w= e would like to have a more global view. This metric would be one among oth= ers. In order to help us to do this inventory, could you please respond unicast = to me, if you are an implementor and you have an implementation of a routin= g-protocol (ISIS,OSPF,RIP,BGP, PIM ... but also MPLS-TE, LDP, RSVP ...) and= in this case, what is your CLI flavor ? Please use this sample format, so it would be easier for me to aggregate : (If you own multiple implementations, you can fill multiple lines.) Vendor OS Protocol Centric VRF centric Cisco IOS/IOS-XE X Thanks for your help ! [Orange logo] Stephane Litkowski Network Architect Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE Orange Expert Future Networks phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52 stephane.litkowski@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1AOPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Folks,

 

A lot of us are currently working on Yang model draf= ts. In the framework of routing protocols related drafts, we have some disc= ussion regarding how to model the configuration of routing protocols and es= pecially do it need to be routing-instance centric or protocol centric (see slides for quick explanation of the diffe= rence). This is a cross protocol discussion, as we would like to apply the = same design to all.

 

In order to decide how to progress on this major des= ign point, one point  is to evaluate current implementations and how m= any are routing-instance centric and protocol centric. The famous implement= ations are well known, but we would like to have a more global view. This metric would be one among others.

 

In order to help us to do this inventory, could you = please respond unicast to me, if you are an implementor and you have an imp= lementation of a routing-protocol (ISIS,OSPF,RIP,BGP, PIM … but also = MPLS-TE, LDP, RSVP …) and in this case, what is your CLI flavor ?

 

Please use this sample format, so it would be easier= for me to aggregate :

(If you own multiple implementations, you can fill m= ultiple lines.)

 

 

Vendor

OS<= /b>

Protocol Centric

VRF centric

Cisco<= /p>

IOS/IOS-XE

X

 

 

 

Thanks for your help !

 

 

3D"O=

 <= o:p>

Stephane Litkowski
Network Architect
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE

Orange Expert Fut= ure Networks

phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83
mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52
stephane.litkowski@orange.com

 

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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05:30:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBEE1A01F2 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 05:30:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VNpLv8Bvmt0h for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 05:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3358D1A0195 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 05:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLAtn-00058Z-Ud; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:30:44 +0000 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:30:41 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Susan Hares In-Reply-To: <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:30:50 -0000 you might find draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd-00.txt interesting. or not. randy From nobody Tue Feb 10 10:07:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732941A02F1; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:07:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w95Lo9od8gYo; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0702.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::702]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45F651A06FD; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc6 (81.151.167.59) by DBXPR07MB063.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.147.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.75.20; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:07:08 +0000 Message-ID: <032701d0455c$27b622a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: "Ken Gray (kegray)" References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> <003001d042f3$22c77ed0$68567c70$@ndzh.com>, <54D86FEC.6030004@bwijnen.net> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:03:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [81.151.167.59] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB4PR03CA0014.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.39.152) To DBXPR07MB063.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.147.22) Authentication-Results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004); SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; X-Forefront-PRVS: 048396AFA0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(13464003)(24454002)(497574002)(377424004)(39224004)(479174004)(377454003)(44736004)(50466002)(66066001)(50226001)(122386002)(81686999)(19580405001)(86362001)(92566002)(40100003)(76176999)(47776003)(50986999)(23756003)(14496001)(81816999)(42186005)(33646002)(46102003)(77096005)(110136001)(87976001)(15975445007)(1720100001)(62236002)(44716002)(19580395003)(77156002)(230783001)(93886004)(116806002)(62966003)(74416001)(7726001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; H:pc6; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR07MB063; X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2015 18:07:08.2079 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBXPR07MB063 Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, idr wg , NETCONF , netmod@ietf.org, Susan Hares Subject: Re: [Idr] [Rtg-yang-coord] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:07:29 -0000 You could try http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/02/09/idr/minutes/minutes-i nterim-2015-idr-3 On the other hand, nothing has yet appeared for the meeting scheduled for 2015-1-12:-( Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Gray (kegray)" To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Cc: ; "idr wg" ; ; "NETCONF" ; "Acee Lindem (acee)" ; "Susan Hares" Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rtg-yang-coord] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules > Recorded by chance? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 9, 2015, at 1:03 PM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wrote: > > > >> On 07/02/15 17:28, Susan Hares wrote: > >> Bert: > >> > >> 10 - 11:30 am ET. My apologies for missing it. > > > > No problem. That time is probably difficult or impossible for me. > > > > Bert > >> Sue > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 9:48 AM > >> To: Bert Wijnen (IETF); Susan Hares; idr wg > >> Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org; NETCONF; netmod@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim > >> 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules > >> > >> Hi Bert, > >> > >> If you look at the WebEx, it is 10 AM EST (GMT - 5). > >> > >> Acee > >> > >>> On 2/7/15, 2:43 AM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 06/02/15 23:42, Susan Hares wrote: > >>>> Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) > >>> any specifics on time zone? > >>> > >>> we are operating in an INTERNATIONAL/AROUND-THE-GLOB setting, are we not? > >>> > >>> Bert > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> netmod mailing list > >>> netmod@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord > > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Tue Feb 10 14:09:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254BF1A870C; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 14:09:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v7DQnQkJ-j0X; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 14:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0511A037D; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 14:09:02 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "idr wg" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 17:08:51 -0500 Message-ID: <037801d0457e$28769400$7963bc00$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0379_01D04554.3FA239B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdBFfNWpkSPpPOaLRASXnjZA9jG05w== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: bess@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Calling for Help for L2VPN operators - on BGP Yang modules and Flow specification X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 22:09:04 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0379_01D04554.3FA239B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The IDR WG is considering a basic BGP yang model and flow specification related to L2VPN. The IDR chairs would appreciate any operator would runs an L2VPN network to help these efforts. The yang model is being created as a collaboration of operators in the OpenConfig group and a group of vendors. If you are an L2VPN operator, the OpenConfig group of operators would like to get your input on the BGP features L2VPN operators normally configure. The IDR chairs would like feedback on the draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-02 from L2VPN operators. Would these operators contact (shares@ndzh.com or jgs@juniper.net) either offline or comment on the WG adoption call on list? Thank you, IDR chairs Sue Hares and John Scudder ------=_NextPart_000_0379_01D04554.3FA239B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The IDR WG = is considering a basic BGP yang model and flow specification related to = L2VPN.   The IDR chairs would appreciate any operator would = runs an L2VPN network to help these efforts.

 

The yang = model is being created as a collaboration of operators in the OpenConfig = group and a group of vendors.  If you are an L2VPN operator, the = OpenConfig group of operators would like to get your input on the BGP = features L2VPN operators normally configure.

 

The IDR = chairs would like feedback on the draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-02 from L2VPN = operators.  Would these operators contact (shares@ndzh.com or jgs@juniper.net) either offline or = comment on the WG adoption call on list?

 

Thank = you,

IDR chairs

Sue Hares and John Scudder

 

=

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0379_01D04554.3FA239B0-- From nobody Tue Feb 10 15:28:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986551A8763 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 15:28:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GLIZ94miOp19 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 15:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B781A872B for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 15:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DB1E7C186; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:28:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:28:33 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20150210232833.GF26053@pfrc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] BGP Yang modules and core features X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 23:28:40 -0000 IDR, As a bit of history, I'm the editor/author on the existing BGP MIBs. The BGP MIBv2 work stalled out due to no one actually taking their enterprise implementation and normalizing it with the published draft, leaving it in limbo. During the MIBv2 work, one detail that churned the modeling work was the necessary "core protocol" details to include in the MIB. The original goal was to pick some common core BGP features such as route reflection, confederations, etc. and include them. However, it later occurred that if implementations did not support these common, but core features that they would not be able to implement the MIB. This lead to an effort to restructure the MIB to include these features as optional extension MIBs. Eventually, that work was abandoned as simply making things too complex. In my opinion, SNMP MIBs are awful for this type of modeling and I'm thrilled that Yang has become a useful language in the IETF. Why bring up the past? IDR has recently hosted two interims covering proposed BGP Yang modules: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 Discussion on the drafts was good. IMO, there are issues in each that need some resolution. One issue in particular generated a bit of heated discussion during the most recent interim and I thought it worth requesting input from the broader Working Group. The two models have slightly different goals: zhdankin is intended to be a bit more of a complete model to serve as a basis for an IETF IDR model. shaikh is intentionally covering a restricted but common subset of BGP functionality in the networks of the authors. Both potentially offer the long-term option to be extended for greater completeness; Yang is very nice about allowing extension modules. The question I'm raising is the core features present in the modules in the context of IDR eventually adopting a module as "the IETF BGP module". In the forms both of these drafts are in, there is no optional configuration. As an example, -shaikh includes a ipv4-l3vpn-unicast container. If you were communicating with a netconf server implementing the module as specified, your software would believe that l3vpn-unicast is supported. Unlike SNMP, we're not stuck with the need for a lot of tricks to determine if a feature that is present in the model is available on the device or not. The "if-feature" clause in Yang (RFC 6020, sec 7.18.2) permits the module to make some of the content conditional based on whether a management implementation supports that feature or not. (It is advertised in the netconf hello statement; netconf RFC 6241, section 8.1.) Support for various address family (AFI/SAFI) configuration and operational state are obvious targets to make optional. "Core" features such as route reflection, confederations, communities? This is a much harder argument to make than it was when I began the BGP MIBv2 work. Even so, anything not tagged with if-feature becomes effectively a "mandatory to implement" component for the management plane. Certainly you could not implement it, netconf would return an appropriate commit error or failure on for operational state that wasn't supported. However, that'd be inelegant at best. It would be good if the WG examines these candiate Yang modules and consider what they'd want as optional features. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Feb 10 16:16:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907331A044F for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 16:16:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52Ozi-qnixHd for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 16:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B8E1A1B12 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 16:15:51 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Jeffrey Haas'" , References: <20150210232833.GF26053@pfrc> In-Reply-To: <20150210232833.GF26053@pfrc> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:15:41 -0500 Message-ID: <043f01d0458f$df835370$9e89fa50$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHvI+3LTEdySrsGxRB5lu2DAireWZyszzhA Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP Yang modules and core features X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 00:16:00 -0000 Jeff: Thank you for this great response for the call to input. Your message saved me from writing the second email message on "if-feature". Did we really have heated debate - I thought it was a "lively debate" (smile)? First would be good to get input from those who have implemented if-features on impact on setting configs or the dynamic nature (i2rs). Second, if your BGP implementation does not support the BGP Yang modules covered by both Yang drafts - would you contact me (off-list is fine): (bgp-yang) draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 (oc-b gp) OpenConfig RFC4271 BGP Protocol Specification [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC1997 BGP Community Attribute [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC4456 BGP Route Reflection [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC4760 BGP Multiprotocol Specification [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC3065 Autonomous System Confederations for BGP [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC2439 BGP Route Flap Dampening [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC 4724 BGP Graceful Restart [bgp-yang & oc-bgp] RFC 6811 BGP Origin Validation [bgp-yang] Jeff raised the issue on the call that some groups of BGP applications may not support these BGP functions. The IDR chairs would like to hear from users or implementers. IMHU - (in my humble understanding) most open source implementations support all but RFC6811. I think the If-features can be useful for allowing a set of BGP Yang defined, and allowing nodes/implementations to signal what BGP support the note has functioning. If most implementations support these base features, then including this in a base yang modules is helpful to iplementors. Sue Hares -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Haas Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 6:29 PM To: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] BGP Yang modules and core features IDR, As a bit of history, I'm the editor/author on the existing BGP MIBs. The BGP MIBv2 work stalled out due to no one actually taking their enterprise implementation and normalizing it with the published draft, leaving it in limbo. During the MIBv2 work, one detail that churned the modeling work was the necessary "core protocol" details to include in the MIB. The original goal was to pick some common core BGP features such as route reflection, confederations, etc. and include them. However, it later occurred that if implementations did not support these common, but core features that they would not be able to implement the MIB. This lead to an effort to restructure the MIB to include these features as optional extension MIBs. Eventually, that work was abandoned as simply making things too complex. In my opinion, SNMP MIBs are awful for this type of modeling and I'm thrilled that Yang has become a useful language in the IETF. Why bring up the past? IDR has recently hosted two interims covering proposed BGP Yang modules: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 Discussion on the drafts was good. IMO, there are issues in each that need some resolution. One issue in particular generated a bit of heated discussion during the most recent interim and I thought it worth requesting input from the broader Working Group. The two models have slightly different goals: zhdankin is intended to be a bit more of a complete model to serve as a basis for an IETF IDR model. shaikh is intentionally covering a restricted but common subset of BGP functionality in the networks of the authors. Both potentially offer the long-term option to be extended for greater completeness; Yang is very nice about allowing extension modules. The question I'm raising is the core features present in the modules in the context of IDR eventually adopting a module as "the IETF BGP module". In the forms both of these drafts are in, there is no optional configuration. As an example, -shaikh includes a ipv4-l3vpn-unicast container. If you were communicating with a netconf server implementing the module as specified, your software would believe that l3vpn-unicast is supported. Unlike SNMP, we're not stuck with the need for a lot of tricks to determine if a feature that is present in the model is available on the device or not. The "if-feature" clause in Yang (RFC 6020, sec 7.18.2) permits the module to make some of the content conditional based on whether a management implementation supports that feature or not. (It is advertised in the netconf hello statement; netconf RFC 6241, section 8.1.) Support for various address family (AFI/SAFI) configuration and operational state are obvious targets to make optional. "Core" features such as route reflection, confederations, communities? This is a much harder argument to make than it was when I began the BGP MIBv2 work. Even so, anything not tagged with if-feature becomes effectively a "mandatory to implement" component for the management plane. Certainly you could not implement it, netconf would return an appropriate commit error or failure on for operational state that wasn't supported. However, that'd be inelegant at best. It would be good if the WG examines these candiate Yang modules and consider what they'd want as optional features. -- Jeff _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Feb 11 00:41:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF49A1A0406; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 00:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ezGWeZ8VQ61G; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 00:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB5CC1A036C; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 00:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C85C92644D0; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:41:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.5]) by omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 6A4B22380E0; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:41:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([169.254.4.53]) by OPEXCLILH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:41:41 +0100 From: To: "isis-wg@ietf.org list (isis-wg@ietf.org)" , "idr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI implementation Thread-Index: AdBFLLfJ87T7mg7qSBKOVExsw2JGuwAqVntQ Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:41:40 +0000 Message-ID: <32018_1423644101_54DB15C5_32018_4712_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <12023_1423571161_54D9F8D8_12023_1801_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1A@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <12023_1423571161_54D9F8D8_12023_1801_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A0F1A@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_007_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2015.2.11.73029 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] FW: [mpls] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI implementation X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:41:50 -0000 --_007_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_006_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_"; type="multipart/alternative" --_006_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_" --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@o= range.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 13:26 To: ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org list (isis-wg@ietf.org); mpls@ietf.org;= idr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI implem= entation Importance: High Hi Folks, A lot of us are currently working on Yang model drafts. In the framework of= routing protocols related drafts, we have some discussion regarding how to= model the configuration of routing protocols and especially do it need to be routing-instance centric or protocol centric. T= his is a cross protocol discussion, as we would like to apply the same desi= gn to all. Example of routing-instance centric CLI : (Typically Juniper, ALU) routing-instance R1 { protocol isis {}; protocol ospf {}; protocol ldp {}; } routing-instance R2 { protocol isis {}; protocol ospf {}; protocol ldp {}; } Example of protocol centric CLI : (Typically CISCO) protocol isis { routing-instance R1 {} routing-instance R2 {} } protocol ospf { routing-instance R1 {} routing-instance R2 {} } In order to decide how to progress on this major design point, one point i= s to evaluate current implementations and how many are routing-instance cen= tric and protocol centric. The famous implementations are well known, but w= e would like to have a more global view. This metric would be one among oth= ers. In order to help us to do this inventory, could you please respond unicast = to me, if you are an implementor and you have an implementation of a routin= g-protocol (ISIS,OSPF,RIP,BGP, PIM ... but also MPLS-TE, LDP, RSVP ...) and= in this case, what is your CLI flavor ? Please use this sample format, so it would be easier for me to aggregate : (If you own multiple implementations, you can fill multiple lines.) Vendor OS Protocol Centric VRF centric Cisco IOS/IOS-XE X Thanks for your help ! [Orange logo] Stephane Litkowski Network Architect Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE Orange Expert Future Networks phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52 stephane.litkowski@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A1295OPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

From: mpls [ma= ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 13:26
To: ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org list (isis-wg@ietf.org); mpls@ie= tf.org; idr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org
Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI= implementation
Importance: High

 

Hi Folks,

 

A lot of us are currently working on Yang model draf= ts. In the framework of routing protocols related drafts, we have some disc= ussion regarding how to model the configuration of routing protocols and

especially do it need to be routing-instance centric= or protocol centric. This is a cross protocol discussion, as we would like to apply the s= ame design to all.

 

Example of routing-ins= tance centric CLI : (Typically Juniper, ALU)

routing-instance R1 {<= o:p>

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol isis {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ospf {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ldp {};

}

routing-instance R2 {<= o:p>

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol isis {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ospf {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ldp {};

}

 

Example of protocol ce= ntric CLI : (Typically CISCO)

protocol isis {

routing-instance R1 {}

routing-instance R2 {}

}

protocol ospf {

routing-instance R1 {}

routing-instance R2 {}

}

 

 

 

In order to decide how to progress on this major des= ign point, one point  is to evaluate current implementations and how m= any are routing-instance centric and protocol centric. The famous implement= ations are well known, but we would like to have a more global view. This metric would be one among others.

 

In order to help us to do this inventory, could you = please respond unicast to me, if you are an implementor and you have an imp= lementation of a routing-protocol (ISIS,OSPF,RIP,BGP, PIM … but also = MPLS-TE, LDP, RSVP …) and in this case, what is your CLI flavor ?

 

Please use this sample format, so it would be easier= for me to aggregate :

(If you own multiple implementations, you can fill m= ultiple lines.)

 

 

Vendor

OS<= /b>

Protocol Centric

VRF centric

Cisco<= /p>

IOS/IOS-XE

X

 

 

 

Thanks for your help !

 

 

3D"Orange

 <= o:p>

Stephane Litkowski
Network Architect
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE

Orange Expert Fut= ure Networks

phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83
mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52
stephane.litkowski@orange.com

 

 

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quoted-printable From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@o= range.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 13:26 To: ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org list (isis-wg@ietf.org); mpls@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI implem= entation Importance: High Hi Folks, A lot of us are currently working on Yang model drafts. In the framework of= routing protocols related drafts, we have some discussion regarding how to= model the configuration of routing protocols and especially do it need to be routing-instance centric or protocol centric. T= his is a cross protocol discussion, as we would like to apply the same desi= gn to all. Example of routing-instance centric CLI : (Typically Juniper, ALU) routing-instance R1 { protocol isis {}; protocol ospf {}; protocol ldp {}; } routing-instance R2 { protocol isis {}; protocol ospf {}; protocol ldp {}; } Example of protocol centric CLI : (Typically CISCO) protocol isis { routing-instance R1 {} routing-instance R2 {} } protocol ospf { routing-instance R1 {} routing-instance R2 {} } In order to decide how to progress on this major design point, one point i= s to evaluate current implementations and how many are routing-instance cen= tric and protocol centric. The famous implementations are well known, but w= e would like to have a more global view. This metric would be one among oth= ers. In order to help us to do this inventory, could you please respond unicast = to me, if you are an implementor and you have an implementation of a routin= g-protocol (ISIS,OSPF,RIP,BGP, PIM ... but also MPLS-TE, LDP, RSVP ...) and= in this case, what is your CLI flavor ? Please use this sample format, so it would be easier for me to aggregate : (If you own multiple implementations, you can fill multiple lines.) Vendor OS Protocol Centric VRF centric Cisco IOS/IOS-XE X Thanks for your help ! [Orange logo] Stephane Litkowski Network Architect Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE Orange Expert Future Networks phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52 stephane.litkowski@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A12CCOPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of stepha= ne.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 13:26
To: ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org list (isis-wg@ietf= .org); mpls@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org
Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.o= rg
Subject: [mpls] Survey for YANG model design : routing protocols CLI= implementation
Importance: High

 

Hi Folks,

 

A lot of us are currently working on Yang model draf= ts. In the framework of routing protocols related drafts, we have some disc= ussion regarding how to model the configuration of routing protocols and

especially do it need to be routing-instance centric= or protocol centric. This is a cross protocol discussion, as we would like to apply the s= ame design to all.

 

Example of routing-ins= tance centric CLI : (Typically Juniper, ALU)

routing-instance R1 {<= o:p>

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol isis {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ospf {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ldp {};

}

routing-instance R2 {<= o:p>

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol isis {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ospf {};

   &nbs= p;            protoc= ol ldp {};

}

 

Example of protocol ce= ntric CLI : (Typically CISCO)

protocol isis {

routing-instance R1 {}

routing-instance R2 {}

}

protocol ospf {

routing-instance R1 {}

routing-instance R2 {}

}

 

 

 

In order to decide how to progress on this major des= ign point, one point  is to evaluate current implementations and how m= any are routing-instance centric and protocol centric. The famous implement= ations are well known, but we would like to have a more global view. This metric would be one among others.

 

In order to help us to do this inventory, could you = please respond unicast to me, if you are an implementor and you have an imp= lementation of a routing-protocol (ISIS,OSPF,RIP,BGP, PIM … but also = MPLS-TE, LDP, RSVP …) and in this case, what is your CLI flavor ?

 

Please use this sample format, so it would be easier= for me to aggregate :

(If you own multiple implementations, you can fill m= ultiple lines.)

 

 

Vendor

OS<= /b>

Protocol Centric

VRF centric

Cisco<= /p>

IOS/IOS-XE

X

 

 

 

Thanks for your help !

 

 

3D"Orange

 <= o:p>

Stephane Litkowski
Network Architect
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE

Orange Expert Fut= ure Networks

phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83
mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52
stephane.litkowski@orange.com

 

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p>
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A12CCOPEXCLILM34corp_-- --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A12CCOPEXCLILM34corp_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Description: image001.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.gif"; size=381; creation-date="Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:43:00 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:43:00 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhKAAoAMQAAP+MQP+zgP/17//s3/+DMP/iz/+fYP+8j/9wEP95IP/Gn/+WUP/Pr/+pcP/Z v/////9mAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAAA AAAALAAAAAAoACgAAAX6oAONZGmeaEqKauum7Cu/8Wyj9a2P+X73vhkwSCPuhkYVMolj2pbOEjTK oxatrSlVG+U6vUxwUmwkE81BtE99xGbdSjhMPgo4BAoA+wUICAR6IwQODwMNEAcOigAFhQYQDgoD DwcQBJOKBIOFDQmaCCyTB416hQcBBQuTEA8Cow8EBQINpHcGhAkrEAkPChAAD3YPCLuSDw+sIgEP wCILzK0OjY9VBJS/wYQjfwaNyRDLzRAG0AMB5wC6ENyEt8jWDAsCyA/KzJN+zLILqLlVv/OuaYPU alU9cMwuPSCl8AEDYv8EQbwRgAEABcziJFl2bMmeEQgATEwRAgA7 --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C7A12CCOPEXCLILM34corp_-- From nobody Wed Feb 11 08:21:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5A11A1A12; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 08:03:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKglbwDda2Ro; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 08:03:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3F9F1A19E9; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 08:03:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1440; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1423584206; x=1424793806; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=bzO8NwTHpA4VZ8I6QTmXa2FR6pyhXRp3F8tdJ71Jwp0=; b=VHaWc5g86GoAMLR5zvge2ik3qcbeeX5mAWA4OsdAV4ZK3d7dGtRH6CEJ 5ETofIPq9rouXagWO7PWXNux5XR1b3GgFgLl17SLIStsjAi+f5Q9AgJnh hDc8ZPgsICBxwoTwqkLeSOtYSoKp8uHaox3U6WMS1b25mhMmkhpgSSner I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlcFAEsr2lStJV2b/2dsb2JhbABcgmQiUlrDCQqFJ0oCgSBDAQEBAQEBfIQMAQEBAwEBAQE3NAsFBwQCAQgRBAEBAR4FBAcnCxQIAQgCBA4FiCUIAQzQbgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARMEjEcBgnwzBwaDEIEUBY8giS6SdiKCDyOBPG+CQgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,551,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="394963466" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Feb 2015 16:03:26 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1AG3P68008628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Feb 2015 16:03:25 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:03:25 -0600 From: "Ken Gray (kegray)" To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules Thread-Index: AQHQQuUmr547mvx02kSiTTavp01geJzlxQ0AgAKezACAAayQIA== Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 16:03:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1129100539.40053.1423259295222.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc102.webex.com> <01d101d0425e$2d271740$877545c0$@ndzh.com> <54D5D041.5070307@bwijnen.net> <003001d042f3$22c77ed0$68567c70$@ndzh.com>,<54D86FEC.6030004@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <54D86FEC.6030004@bwijnen.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:20:55 -0800 Cc: "Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , idr wg , "netmod@ietf.org" , NETCONF , Susan Hares Subject: Re: [Idr] [Rtg-yang-coord] [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 16:03:31 -0000 Recorded by chance? Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 9, 2015, at 1:03 PM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wro= te: >=20 >> On 07/02/15 17:28, Susan Hares wrote: >> Bert: >>=20 >> 10 - 11:30 am ET. My apologies for missing it. >=20 > No problem. That time is probably difficult or impossible for me. >=20 > Bert >> Sue >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 9:48 AM >> To: Bert Wijnen (IETF); Susan Hares; idr wg >> Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org; NETCONF; netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: IDR Interi= m >> 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules >>=20 >> Hi Bert, >>=20 >> If you look at the WebEx, it is 10 AM EST (GMT - 5). >>=20 >> Acee >>=20 >>> On 2/7/15, 2:43 AM, "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On 06/02/15 23:42, Susan Hares wrote: >>>> Agenda: (75 minutes 10:00 - 11:15am) >>> any specifics on time zone? >>>=20 >>> we are operating in an INTERNATIONAL/AROUND-THE-GLOB setting, are we no= t? >>>=20 >>> Bert >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord From nobody Wed Feb 11 08:21:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3097C1A8903 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:21:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t95NJPdFIYd9 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:21:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8E551A8927 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:21:11 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from cupcake.foobar.org (xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1BGL7mO094767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Feb 2015 16:21:08 GMT (envelope-from nick@inex.ie) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.netability.ie: Host xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84] claimed to be cupcake.foobar.org Message-ID: <54DB8173.40006@inex.ie> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 16:21:07 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush , Susan Hares References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: X-Company-Info-1: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited. Registered in Ireland No. 253804 X-Company-Info-2: Registered Offices: 1-2, Marino Mart, Fairview, Dublin 3 X-Company-Info-3: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited is limited by guarantee X-Company-Info-4: Offices: 4027 Kingswood Road, Citywest, Dublin 24. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 16:21:24 -0000 On 10/02/2015 13:30, Randy Bush wrote: > you might find > > draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd-00.txt > > interesting. or not. definitely interesting. This seems to be similar to an idea that Dave Freedman put forward a couple of years ago in an unpublished draft which was tentatively named draft-scholl-idr-advisory-01-df-input. It would be appropriate to mention him in the acknowledgements. Overloading NHIB announcements with these semantics is a mistake, in part because because not all announcements to an IXP RS will have next-hop-self set. This means that the set of NHs received from a client could include routers outside the administrative control of the announcing router and that could potentially cause a good deal of trouble. In a RS scenario, each client router should only be able to authoritatively announce what it can handle. It would be more sensible to define a new bgp attribute to allow RS clients to announce BFD candidacy to the RSN and to allow the RS to announce a list of potential BFD candidates to each client, along with a set of rules to determine how bfd sessions would be set up, what protocols should be included, etc. Nick From nobody Wed Feb 11 14:55:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DB11A1B9E; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 14:55:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OpdzwUz8ud9b; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 14:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5361A1A1E; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 14:55:44 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "idr wg" References: <1716926046.1975221423694292688.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd002.webex.com> In-Reply-To: <1716926046.1975221423694292688.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd002.webex.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 17:55:35 -0500 Message-ID: <074c01d0464d$d92d11a0$8b8734e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_074D_01D04623.F057F400" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHJ57GBwTjsxCJFcI4UebhxZCloJpz4yCiQ Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org, "'Ken Gray \(kegray\)'" , netmod@ietf.org, NETCONF Subject: [Idr] FW: WebEx recording is available for viewing: IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules-20150209 1500-1 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:55:46 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_074D_01D04623.F057F400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx recording with you.=20 IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules-20150209 1500-1=20 Monday, February 9, 2015=20 11:17 am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)=20 PLAY RECORDING (1 hr 8 min)=20 https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Ddad5cf872d4469f95ad00b0330f8e9= d8=20 This is the recording of the discussion of the BGP Yang modules. =20 = draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00 = draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00=20 =20 Sue Hares=20 ------=_NextPart_000_074D_01D04623.F057F400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


IDR = Working Group wants to share this WebEx recording with you. =


IDR Interim 2/9 - BGP Yang Modules-20150209 1500-1 =
Monday, February 9, 2015
11:17 am | Eastern Standard Time (New = York, GMT-05:00)


PLAY RECORDING (1 hr 8 min)
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Ddad5cf872d44= 69f95ad00b0330f8e9d8

This is the recording of the discussion of the BGP Yang = modules.=C2=A0

draft-zhdankin-idr-bgp-cfg-00

draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00

 

Sue Hares

------=_NextPart_000_074D_01D04623.F057F400-- From nobody Wed Feb 11 15:58:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DDE71A1BEE for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 15:58:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eckchoZ-ZGzS for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 15:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.bemta3.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta3.messagelabs.com [195.245.230.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4021A1BDF for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 15:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [195.245.230.51] by server-12.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id B1/B8-02881-9BCEBD45; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:58:49 +0000 X-Env-Sender: david.freedman@uk.clara.net X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-33.messagelabs.com!1423699129!10097721!1 X-Originating-IP: [80.168.41.244] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.4; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 22010 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2015 23:58:49 -0000 Received: from staff02.mail.eu.clara.net (HELO staff02.mail.eu.clara.net) (80.168.41.244) by server-6.tower-33.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2015 23:58:49 -0000 Received: from [80.168.41.252] (port=51270 helo=SRVGREXCAS05.claranet.local) by staff02.mail.eu.clara.net (staff02.mail.eu.clara.net [80.168.41.244]:25) with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1YLhBA-0000p1-9E for idr@ietf.org (return-path ); Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:58:48 +0000 Received: from SRVGREXMB06.claranet.local ([fe80::70d4:3322:86e0:c10c]) by SRVGREXCAS05.claranet.local ([fe80::3915:cdff:95ac:dcdb%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:55:32 +0000 From: David Freedman To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AQHQRlY44pbQk601aE+c4rh++XFY+A== Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:55:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [172.26.6.254] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <98C909D516D7EB4AB3F47F50C0C5E264@claranet.local> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Recipient: idr@ietf.org X-Original-Sender: david.freedman@uk.clara.net X-Clara-Helo: SRVGREXCAS05.claranet.local X-BorderScout: ca=0.00 cm=0.00 time=3590 size=1913 X-BorderScout-CM-Score: 0 X-BorderScout-CA-Score: 0 X-Cloudmark: 0.00 X-ClamAV: clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:58:53 -0000 >it would be more sensible to define a new bgp attribute to allow RS >clients >to announce BFD candidacy to the RSN +1 Actually, I was speaking recently to another author who planned to resurrect it in another as yet unpublished draft involving a new BGP attribute to signal next-hop liveliness detection (hopefully this post will prompt them into action to mention it). In this discussion, we determined that these duties could probably be devolved directly to BFD itself, which could (if configured suitably) be left to discover potential peers and set up sessions based on seeing them as next hops in the incoming BGP RIBs learned from the IXP route server. This seemed like a much better approach than leaving it to BGP and the RS (which relieves some of the potential burden on it IMHO) Dave. From nobody Wed Feb 11 19:32:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F0B1A1EEC for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:32:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXgItzphHVhr for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40A7B1A1EFE for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLkVq-000487-IE; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 03:32:23 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:32:15 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: David Freedman In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 03:32:28 -0000 we considered a more 'liberal' approach similar to one recommended privately by job, where the peer discovers who to set up bfd with by what next hops they get. this has problems in that it assumes NH is set, prefixes exist (A may announce nothing to B), etc. we also considered full rigid signaling approaches such as you and nick suggest. this path is much firmer theoretical ground. the problem is that it will wait years or forever for vendors to implement. so this draft represents a middle ground (yes, a sofa-bed is neither a good sofa nor a good bed:-) which we hope can be easily hacked so we can actually deploy and use it, but which provides some assurance that you know your potential bfd peer set. ymmv, of course. randy From nobody Wed Feb 11 19:56:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B94BE1A8A79 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:56:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w-oiz7hZdDCY for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:56:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B9B41A8A9A for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 19:56:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLksp-0004Ku-CZ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 03:56:08 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:56:04 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Rajiv Asati In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd and idr-bgp-bestpath-selection ?? X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 03:56:14 -0000 > Does draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd benefit from best path selection criteria > enhancement (wrt NH resolvability) described here? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-06 perhaps you could describe how it might benefit? randy From nobody Wed Feb 11 22:25:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38691A9042 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVmm5c_7_RVF for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.bemta14.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta14.messagelabs.com [193.109.254.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB221A904F for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.109.254.3] by server-11.bemta-14.messagelabs.com id 0F/31-02760-6674CD45; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:25:42 +0000 X-Env-Sender: david.freedman@uk.clara.net X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-184.messagelabs.com!1423722342!7571029!1 X-Originating-IP: [80.168.41.245] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.4; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 22607 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0000 Received: from staff03.mail.eu.clara.net (HELO staff03.mail.eu.clara.net) (80.168.41.245) by server-4.tower-184.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0000 Received: from [80.168.41.252] (port=49438 helo=SRVGREXCAS06.claranet.local) by staff03.mail.eu.clara.net (staff03.mail.eu.clara.net [80.168.41.245]:25) with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1YLnDa-0006C6-AB (return-path ); Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:25:42 +0000 Received: from SRVGREXMB06.claranet.local ([fe80::70d4:3322:86e0:c10c]) by SRVGREXCAS06.claranet.local ([fe80::60c3:7160:9e52:1c63%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:23:18 +0000 From: David Freedman To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AQHQRlY44pbQk601aE+c4rh++XFY+JzsXFGAgABAhAA= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:23:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [172.26.6.254] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9ED294069D9AC841B5C8E154D50146FC@claranet.local> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Recipient: randy@psg.com X-Original-Sender: david.freedman@uk.clara.net X-Original-Recipient: idr@ietf.org X-Clara-Helo: SRVGREXCAS06.claranet.local X-BorderScout: cm=0.00 ca=0.00 time=3334 size=2057 X-BorderScout-CM-Score: 0 X-BorderScout-CA-Score: 0 X-ClamAV: clean X-Cloudmark: 0.00 Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:25:45 -0000 >we considered a more 'liberal' approach similar to one recommended >privately by job, where the peer discovers who to set up bfd with by >what next hops they get. this has problems in that it assumes NH is >set, prefixes exist (A may announce nothing to B), etc. Making this a function of BFD (and not BGP) makes sense here IMHO, if there is no NH set, or no prefixes exist on day one then I'm not going to need a BFD session in the first place. >> which provides some assurance that you >>know your potential bfd peer set. Is't this the point of the RS, to facilitate in the face of the unknown? with the above approach, assuming I filter against the RS, if I wanted to, would I not still reach the same outcome? Dave.=20 From nobody Wed Feb 11 22:35:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E181A906B for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:35:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id COPvXMeVYhat for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCE611A904F for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLnMh-0005CU-5z; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:35:07 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 13:35:03 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: David Freedman In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:35:11 -0000 >> we considered a more 'liberal' approach similar to one recommended >> privately by job, where the peer discovers who to set up bfd with by >> what next hops they get. this has problems in that it assumes NH is >> set, prefixes exist (A may announce nothing to B), etc. > > Making this a function of BFD (and not BGP) makes sense here IMHO, > if there is no NH set, or no prefixes exist on day one then > I'm not going to need a BFD session in the first place. while A may not announce anything to B, B may have gifts for A >>> which provides some assurance that you know your potential bfd peer >>> set. > Is't this the point of the RS, to facilitate in the face of the > unknown? with the above approach, assuming I filter against the RS, > if I wanted to, would I not still reach the same outcome? i can not parse. randy From nobody Wed Feb 11 22:43:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BB51A9074 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:43:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3nW2hueO39y9 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.bemta3.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta3.messagelabs.com [195.245.230.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875711A6EFC for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [195.245.230.51] by server-16.bemta-3.messagelabs.com id E3/0F-02745-A8B4CD45; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:43:22 +0000 X-Env-Sender: david.freedman@uk.clara.net X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-33.messagelabs.com!1423723402!9992648!1 X-Originating-IP: [80.168.41.244] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.4; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 24575 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2015 06:43:22 -0000 Received: from staff02.mail.eu.clara.net (HELO staff02.mail.eu.clara.net) (80.168.41.244) by server-8.tower-33.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2015 06:43:22 -0000 Received: from [80.168.41.252] (port=42847 helo=SRVGREXCAS06.claranet.local) by staff02.mail.eu.clara.net (staff02.mail.eu.clara.net [80.168.41.244]:25) with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1YLnUg-000810-6o (return-path ); Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:43:22 +0000 Received: from SRVGREXMB06.claranet.local ([fe80::70d4:3322:86e0:c10c]) by SRVGREXCAS06.claranet.local ([fe80::60c3:7160:9e52:1c63%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:38:50 +0000 From: David Freedman To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AQHQRlY44pbQk601aE+c4rh++XFY+JzsXFGAgABAhAD///KOgIAAEcqA Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:38:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [172.26.6.254] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2D58215F34225E4D835FD0E8682F4236@claranet.local> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Recipient: randy@psg.com X-Original-Sender: david.freedman@uk.clara.net X-Original-Recipient: idr@ietf.org X-Clara-Helo: SRVGREXCAS06.claranet.local X-BorderScout: ca=0.00 cm=0.00 time=3695 size=2130 X-BorderScout-CM-Score: 0 X-BorderScout-CA-Score: 0 X-Cloudmark: 0.00 X-ClamAV: clean Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:43:25 -0000 > > > >while A may not announce anything to B, B may have gifts for A That's fine, there is still a valid forwarding path here, why would we not set up a (BFD) session? > >>>> which provides some assurance that you know your potential bfd peer >>>> set. >> Is't this the point of the RS, to facilitate in the face of the >> unknown? with the above approach, assuming I filter against the RS, >> if I wanted to, would I not still reach the same outcome? I was just commenting on how I feel that this doesn't violate the RS model. Assuming you filter properly (including asking the RS not to spread your prefixes to those you don't want it to), you shouldn't get any unsolicited BFD setup requests.=20 Dave.=20 From nobody Wed Feb 11 22:49:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D4A1A6EFC for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:49:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 68Q-jnMa6SFn for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73DAF1A9074 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLnaV-0005M1-Pi; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:49:24 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 13:49:20 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: David Freedman In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:49:27 -0000 >> while A may not announce anything to B, B may have gifts for A > That's fine, there is still a valid forwarding path here, why would we > not set up a (BFD) session? you would. the point is that B can not count on receiving a route to A to tell B to set up bfd to A >>>>> which provides some assurance that you know your potential bfd peer >>>>> set. >>> Is't this the point of the RS, to facilitate in the face of the >>> unknown? with the above approach, assuming I filter against the RS, >>> if I wanted to, would I not still reach the same outcome? > > I was just commenting on how I feel that this doesn't violate the RS > model. cool. the exercise started with arnold asking what would make me more comfortable with RSs given that i like my data plane to be congruent with my control plane. > Assuming you filter properly (including asking the RS not to spread > your prefixes to those you don't want it to), you shouldn't get any > unsolicited BFD setup requests. makes sense to me. at bknix with the gang who are figuring out how to tell members to use ixp-mangler to only configure a bird peering if both parties agree. randy From nobody Wed Feb 11 23:55:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1611A1B35 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:55:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.612 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.612 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uWmLe-s7Hwko for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from guelah.shrubbery.net (guelah.shrubbery.net [198.58.5.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEAF1A0399 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by guelah.shrubbery.net (Postfix, from userid 7053) id 077E146B10; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 07:55:06 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 07:55:05 +0000 From: heasley To: David Freedman Message-ID: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGPkey: http://www.shrubbery.net/~heas/public-key.asc X-note: live free, or die! X-homer: i just want to have a beer while i am caring. X-Claimation: an engineer needs a manager like a fish needs a bicycle X-reality: only YOU can put an end to the embarrassment that is Tom Cruise User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 07:55:08 -0000 Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 06:23:17AM +0000, David Freedman: > Is't this the point of the RS, to facilitate in the face of the unknown? > with the above approach, assuming I filter against the RS, if I wanted to, > would I not still reach the same outcome? great idea, but why use a RS at all? are folks still on AGS or just incapable of managing peering relationships? From nobody Thu Feb 12 00:11:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02C61A7007 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:10:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T_7fXRlvgKnu for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 923BC1A1BF4 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLoqw-0005qp-Fl; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:10:27 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:10:23 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: heasley In-Reply-To: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:11:00 -0000 >> Is't this the point of the RS, to facilitate in the face of the >> unknown? with the above approach, assuming I filter against the RS, >> if I wanted to, would I not still reach the same outcome? > great idea, but why use a RS at all? are folks still on AGS or just > incapable of managing peering relationships? think of it this way, some people use a gui to drive a large expensive blob of code which configures their routers in a [semi-]automated way. others do not wish to develop and/or maintain that lorge blob of code. perhaps they don't have a large enough network to amortize the effort. so they use a web site (ixp-manager) to configure an ixp-provided route server. my problem with the second case is that the control plane and data plane are not congruent (think datakit, atm, ...). the draft is suggesting a hack to ameliorate my objection. randy From nobody Thu Feb 12 00:38:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430171A1B5A for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:38:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YK5yv-sNo2d5 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x22e.google.com (mail-ig0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D72F1A003B for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-f174.google.com with SMTP id b16so2307837igk.1 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:37:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=BBS56YSIt2et/wLPfjz8hjY6ktib/JKtaHdkSkQ8GXQ=; b=tox5oJAFdhRkqeVaxp5B0mC9ENf6amaLpqmrke0fBQnvRP5HoeunYto7ckjZPnWb2U EhegDH48ubeUr5cQLyxlEna0hn6/JDGijXpiN3oK+vJw3Pj7/bJF25f8DcSHNriF7EYP tzqueqT2lovzHZY5qY4OwSFGsHpV5wcysmOVAmskAn0UdcT3RpiJvgzS4RiPUjFYoi7g fFE6MFjofZkkL2SqoVpzz/ixak/viCDEkvMU5Q553To8WkSyWKYcyKrFFJ1i2QW6zotr nB+wpdGrNz9uJi8Jjp1Uqni2xORnBOJo7dT/VSXXgKsUn8Ds4EQsc1izgW+jN/Lhob/X FIFw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.15.96 with SMTP id x93mr2880166ioi.75.1423730277628; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:37:57 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.157.69 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:37:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 09:37:57 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9E55d90YV4q6RbN-RqmyxLjfHWA Message-ID: From: Robert Raszuk To: heasley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113f74b6744063050ee0098e Archived-At: Cc: idr wg , David Freedman Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:38:00 -0000 --001a113f74b6744063050ee0098e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > great idea, but why use a RS at all? are folks still on AGS or just > incapable of managing peering relationships? =E2=80=8BIf you have 500 peerings and 1 joins or leaves it is a bit of a ha= ssle =E2=80=8Bto go around and adjust peering relationship. That's why we have a draft which solves this problem by automating auto-discovery allowing for full control and data plane congruence. RS in this case is just a peering database and is not used for any real reachability routes exchange. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-idr-bgp-auto-discovery-02 Perhaps it is time to continue that draft ... Thx, R. --001a113f74b6744063050ee0098e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
great idea, but why use a RS at all?=C2=A0 are folks still on = AGS or just
incapable of managing peering relationships?

=E2=80=8BIf you have 500 peerings = and 1 joins or leaves it is a bit of a hassle =E2=80=8Bto go around and adj= ust peering relationship.

That'= s why we have a draft which solves this problem by automating auto-discover= y allowing for full control and data plane congruence.

RS in this case is just a peering database and is not u= sed for any real reachability routes exchange.

<= font face=3D"courier new, monospace">
Perhaps it is time to continue that draft ...

Thx,<= /div>
R.
--001a113f74b6744063050ee0098e-- From nobody Thu Feb 12 07:21:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE341A8857 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 07:21:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FPe9U0YqYPeE for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 07:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82DB51A88B2 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 07:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YLvZh-0008PV-Hl for idr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:21:06 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 22:21:00 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: idr wg In-Reply-To: <54DB8173.40006@inex.ie> References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> <54DB8173.40006@inex.ie> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:21:10 -0000 i support publication of draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-06.txt i am concerned by path hiding; though i realize it is hard to fix; multi-rib being resource intensive. diverse- and add-path are grotty and not light-weight. but MLPA is less and less common on IXen. i guess i can live with the SHOULD. randy From nobody Thu Feb 12 11:31:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C8B1A1BBC for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 11:31:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.212 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.212 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XwaB5z7whjJF for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 11:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from guelah.shrubbery.net (guelah.shrubbery.net [198.58.5.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9281A1B6A for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 11:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by guelah.shrubbery.net (Postfix, from userid 7053) id 527DD4649D; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:31:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:31:13 +0000 From: heasley To: Randy Bush Message-ID: <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGPkey: http://www.shrubbery.net/~heas/public-key.asc X-note: live free, or die! X-homer: i just want to have a beer while i am caring. X-Claimation: an engineer needs a manager like a fish needs a bicycle X-reality: only YOU can put an end to the embarrassment that is Tom Cruise User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Archived-At: Cc: heasley , idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:31:15 -0000 Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 03:10:23PM +0700, Randy Bush: > think of it this way, some people use a gui to drive a large expensive > blob of code which configures their routers in a [semi-]automated way. > > others do not wish to develop and/or maintain that lorge blob of code. > perhaps they don't have a large enough network to amortize the effort. > so they use a web site (ixp-manager) to configure an ixp-provided route > server. > > my problem with the second case is that the control plane and data plane > are not congruent (think datakit, atm, ...). the draft is suggesting a > hack to ameliorate my objection. i understand your objection and solution, and agree that its more palatable than a broken forwarding plane. But, i still think this is all a bunch of kinky stuff to solve a problem that isnt all that difficult to handle if the RS doesnt exist. ie: its just configuration, which is not difficult. the automation of configuration can be handled separately and w/o the RS or protocol changes; eg: the IXP could instead provide a webservice to disseminate peer presence and supply a tool that participants run on their management host to retrieve and netconf that to the devices. the unix approach - simple tools used together. From nobody Thu Feb 12 12:41:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990051A2130 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id juOmitis-fUp for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 12:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5741E1A024E for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 12:41:39 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: Received: from cupcake.foobar.org (xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1CKfYoV007459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:41:37 GMT (envelope-from nick@inex.ie) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.netability.ie: Host xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84] claimed to be cupcake.foobar.org Message-ID: <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:41:34 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> In-Reply-To: <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> X-Company-Info-1: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited. Registered in Ireland No. 253804 X-Company-Info-2: Registered Offices: 1-2, Marino Mart, Fairview, Dublin 3 X-Company-Info-3: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited is limited by guarantee X-Company-Info-4: Offices: 4027 Kingswood Road, Citywest, Dublin 24. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:41:42 -0000 On 12/02/2015 19:31, heasley wrote: > i understand your objection and solution, and agree that its more palatable > than a broken forwarding plane. But, i still think this is all a bunch of > kinky stuff to solve a problem that isnt all that difficult to handle if > the RS doesnt exist. Route servers are not to everyone's taste and no-one will force you to use them if you don't want to. Could we get back to the main point of the draft, which is to formalise the change in BGP behaviour which people have been using since the 1990s to implement RSs? Nick From nobody Thu Feb 12 15:18:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5BF1A6F3D for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:18:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jBEQGZnFI25O for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D9701A6F87 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YM31l-0002td-Sb; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 23:18:34 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:18:30 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nick Hilliard In-Reply-To: <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: John Heasly , idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 23:18:49 -0000 [ remember, i support publication ] >> i understand your objection and solution, and agree that its more >> palatable than a broken forwarding plane. But, i still think this is >> all a bunch of kinky stuff to solve a problem that isnt all that >> difficult to handle if the RS doesnt exist. > > Route servers are not to everyone's taste and no-one will force you to > use them if you don't want to. > > Could we get back to the main point of the draft, which is to > formalise the change in BGP behaviour which people have been using > since the 1990s to implement RSs? heas has a lerge network with hundreds of routers. he can amortize the tool maintenance to automate peering configuration at the per-router level. for many folk, that is out of the question. route servers address the latter. they're a valid use case. what i don't get is, once you've thrown in add-path and diverse path, why it left out flowspec, neighbor discovery, and dhcp options. this could have been simpler; multi-rib is the direct solution. randy From nobody Thu Feb 12 15:29:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE4B1A01EA for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:29:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pdw8es54TSLd for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-f180.google.com (mail-ie0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9CD31A014D for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by iecrl12 with SMTP id rl12so13469587iec.2 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=1QfH91o0kPyajWK37LTkYpoEk7wqhFuZUKP8Q0JeX8g=; b=R7/3C7LI1yr4PDoZADMhR1r94BRAQfvujmUbgT/r5kr/+vB5sNK31GqrFXRM1WNNPa uDNUpCssWexze2HpnoqK8N7aDuZbTEHdQe321SQ8V210cXPUg9AFhgAo2TI21ExxV68Q n3krwb82N3BvPzRa07TM3l5J8m4ER1kA0t8FUsayQBTiE9DbNVq5tDBKn+Kc+aBIeui7 fQkDKHWtDWrAQmRW90bKij4rb7O+c46276usKM9ewJtkVswMUHBrQdJiB342F+y1bzax aNOfc4O61pjRGfs1MjBRPwn/orHLMENloJzM7ez9DqwJW+fPkDypO22q9YvyN4qrKhf4 mfYw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.171.201 with SMTP id aw9mr81335igc.2.1423783748357; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.157.69 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:29:08 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XkRTDKjzx5RwZW7o6HQcKbJkClA Message-ID: From: Robert Raszuk To: Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111d4248ed6b5050eec7c59 Archived-At: Cc: John Heasly , idr wg , Nick Hilliard Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 23:29:11 -0000 --089e0111d4248ed6b5050eec7c59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Randy, Flowspec is supported as any other AFI/SAFI by configuration. It is not left out. Note that flowspec is a data plane thingy and RS is there not to filter data plane, but just pass control plane across transparently so it does not need to be spelled out in this spec. With path hiding it is different as RS needs to do something to mitigate it hence add-paths or divers-paths are mentioned explicitely. Thx, r. On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > [ remember, i support publication ] > > >> i understand your objection and solution, and agree that its more > >> palatable than a broken forwarding plane. But, i still think this is > >> all a bunch of kinky stuff to solve a problem that isnt all that > >> difficult to handle if the RS doesnt exist. > > > > Route servers are not to everyone's taste and no-one will force you to > > use them if you don't want to. > > > > Could we get back to the main point of the draft, which is to > > formalise the change in BGP behaviour which people have been using > > since the 1990s to implement RSs? > > heas has a lerge network with hundreds of routers. he can amortize the > tool maintenance to automate peering configuration at the per-router > level. for many folk, that is out of the question. route servers > address the latter. they're a valid use case. > > what i don't get is, once you've thrown in add-path and diverse path, > why it left out flowspec, neighbor discovery, and dhcp options. this > could have been simpler; multi-rib is the direct solution. > > randy > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --089e0111d4248ed6b5050eec7c59 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Randy,

Flowspec is supported as any other AFI/SAFI by configuration. It is n= ot left out.=C2=A0

Note that flo= wspec is a data plane thingy and RS is there not to filter data plane, but = just pass control plane across transparently so it does not need to be spel= led out in this spec.=C2=A0

With= path hiding it is different as RS needs to do something to mitigate it hen= ce add-paths or divers-paths are mentioned explicitely.
=
Thx,
r.

<= /div>



On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:18 AM,= Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
[ remember, i support publication ]

>> i understand your objection and solution, and agree that its more<= br> >> palatable than a broken forwarding plane.=C2=A0 But, i still think= this is
>> all a bunch of kinky stuff to solve a problem that isnt all that >> difficult to handle if the RS doesnt exist.
>
> Route servers are not to everyone's taste and no-one will force yo= u to
> use them if you don't want to.
>
> Could we get back to the main point of the draft, which is to
> formalise the change in BGP behaviour which people have been using
> since the 1990s to implement RSs?

heas has a lerge network with hundreds of routers.=C2=A0 he can amor= tize the
tool maintenance to automate peering configuration at the per-router
level.=C2=A0 for many folk, that is out of the question.=C2=A0 route server= s
address the latter.=C2=A0 they're a valid use case.

what i don't get is, once you've thrown in add-path and diverse pat= h,
why it left out flowspec, neighbor discovery, and dhcp options.=C2=A0 this<= br> could have been simpler; multi-rib is the direct solution.

randy

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--089e0111d4248ed6b5050eec7c59-- From nobody Thu Feb 12 15:32:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC4D1A07BC for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:32:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3bFuY1Ox1I6v for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC9C31A01EA for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YM3Es-0002zt-JZ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 23:32:07 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:32:03 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk In-Reply-To: References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: John Heasly , idr wg , Nick Hilliard Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 23:32:12 -0000 > Flowspec is supported as any other AFI/SAFI by configuration. It is not > left out. that was sarcasm google carpenter gothic randy From nobody Thu Feb 12 15:39:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474671A1B71 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DVllOnANlKQu for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x232.google.com (mail-ig0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 694091A6FCB for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-f178.google.com with SMTP id hl2so7348027igb.5 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:38:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+vPl4LLsKNbNC3svyK/LnWChm5Lz6giMFIDXcje/p28=; b=hFsFaQ0+ZcCParvwuj/LE5Ro4QYvkX3kRs+zZ83y2NsDMv50/VIeSQM6gzsMl364cH oLma3O+R6+qpMg14jvBaoyhRS+Rcify9yfUNTwunabD6b4M7kEHWy5frOqMEy2TzkzD7 BTb1RFS6AF6CaKBPavyngwz3NLFN0RDjqF02aZiwTDYcHRFCqOu6MU0zWk7JavU7tYh5 9uuYAMDbrma/Cgn7WU6WzrELZA6M4bFN/9ZVncL7IuXn3OsZZ2zBoKb35a1H4hPZ3HgT 1X1jOmYkaRNztiZNpLSGhm+sZtmifRPlNYIHXtV6KcL5gwR93cNKaTCqcXrPIEN1ride SsoA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.137.17 with SMTP id l17mr7859584iod.33.1423784337613; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:38:57 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.157.69 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:38:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:38:57 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FUgo-6dR0r6TcsfjCtunhSG6GXY Message-ID: From: Robert Raszuk To: Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ed0d4ae2a81050eec9f95 Archived-At: Cc: John Heasly , idr wg , Nick Hilliard Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 23:39:19 -0000 --001a113ed0d4ae2a81050eec9f95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Ahhh apparently I did not get it at first look .. I was sufficiently shocked that you care about flowspec that I could not resist to respond :)) Anyhow many thx for your support for this draft ! When you came to the mic in Berlin after I presented it I was not sure if I should run ... Best, Robert. On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > > Flowspec is supported as any other AFI/SAFI by configuration. It is not > > left out. > > that was sarcasm > > google carpenter gothic > > randy > --001a113ed0d4ae2a81050eec9f95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ahhh apparently I di= d not get it at first look .. I was sufficiently shocked that you care abou= t flowspec that I could not resist to respond :))

Anyhow many thx for your support for this draft !=C2=A0

When you came to the mic in Berli= n after I presented it I was not sure if I should run ...=C2=A0

Best,
Robert.


On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Randy Bush <= randy@psg.com> wrote:
> Flowspe= c is supported as any other AFI/SAFI by configuration. It is not
> left out.

that was sarcasm

google carpenter gothic

randy

--001a113ed0d4ae2a81050eec9f95-- From nobody Thu Feb 12 16:12:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF151A014C for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 16:12:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A0jPcEEHuOAW for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 16:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E67731A00FF for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 16:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YM3ra-0003K3-5W; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:07 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 07:12:05 +0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk In-Reply-To: References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:11 -0000 i come from heas's world. in fact, he is riding on the descendant of my 20 year old code. but, with another hat, i am helping to engineer the new (inagurated this week) bangkok neutral ix. and it has an rs pair and ixp-manager. this is what folk want and expect, especially smaller folk. it's not as simple as i would like. it is not easy to explain. but it is useful. and no, we're not translating flowspec into thai. :) randy From nobody Thu Feb 12 17:29:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C191A0233 for ; 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bh=TLcB3FRoBtJ8MGNlrOPDlYjLO8bhF9ej0yTbv/YO9SI=; b=RmvqLWNBWG8HGG2XadmZGK4okY3DVZ9l5gnXqrQqh6wljNThjiE3hgmR S44LadZA+2UnP18t0wBDPVejs8iziqCvCchY904AiyBpty7JDQi9W6Sbs P/w7eFBQh/rcSDdm2A+AbM3CraQtCVcKJ/z4DqBoKdNN7+gz9caknQORI s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: As4HADdS3VStJV2Y/2dsb2JhbABbgkNDUloEs3mNQoFshW8CgSZDAQEBAQEBfIQMAQEBBC1MEAIBCA4DAwEBASgHMhQJCAEBBAENBQkRiBMN1TcBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXiwyEXBEGAYQqBY8pg1aFXYEYOIJOiySDPiKCMoE8bwGBAyQcfwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,567,1418083200"; d="scan'208,217";a="395768014" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Feb 2015 01:29:24 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com [173.36.12.75]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1D1TNDS025099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 Feb 2015 01:29:23 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.5.197]) by xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com ([173.36.12.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 19:29:22 -0600 From: "Shitanshu Shah (svshah)" To: Susan Hares , "'idr wg'" Thread-Topic: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) Thread-Index: AdA0Bc0QLug1SFDRSjq/JCByM24SQwAyQjSAABLIwQAEgHCqgA== Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 01:29:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> <024c01d034e7$aee7a210$0cb6e630$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <024c01d034e7$aee7a210$0cb6e630$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [10.24.216.176] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D10292C3CDCBsvshahciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 01:29:36 -0000 --_000_D10292C3CDCBsvshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Implementation and inter-operability results are documented at, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-svshah-idr-sla-exchange-impl-02.t= xt The inter-operability is tested between 2 Cisco OS implementations as well = with ExaBGP implementation. Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 11:31 AM To: svshah >, 'idr wg' > Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" > Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/20= 15 rto 2/5/2015) Shitanshu: This is great news about the 2 interoperability implementations. Please sen= d the results over your inter-operability tests to the idr list. Sue From: Shitanshu Shah (svshah) [mailto:svshah@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:34 PM To: Susan Hares; idr wg Cc: 'John G. Scudder' Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/20= 15 rto 2/5/2015) There does not exist any IPR for this draft AFAIK. With respect to 2 implementations, we are currently in the process of valid= ating inter-operability of 2 implementations. Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares > Date: Monday, January 19, 2015 at 8:34 AM To: idr wg > Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" > Subject: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 r= to 2/5/2015) This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange. Please c= omment on the usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical p= ros/cons of the draft. In your comments please include: =93support=94 or = =93no support=94 indicate. Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for t= his draft, and the number of implementations that exist. If this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG = LC completed, awaiting 2 implementations. The draft can be found at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ Sue Hares --_000_D10292C3CDCBsvshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Implementation and inter-operability results are documented at,

The inter-operability is tested between 2 Cisco OS implementations as = well with ExaBGP implementation.

Regards,
Shitanshu

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at = 11:31 AM
To: svshah <svshah@cisco.com>, 'idr wg' <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" &= lt;jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for= draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015)

Shitanshu:<= /span>

 

This is great news abo= ut the 2 interoperability implementations. Please send the results over you= r inter-operability tests to the idr list.

 

Sue =

 

From: Shitanshu Shah (svshah) [mailto:svshah@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:34 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr wg
Cc: 'John G. Scudder'
Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (= 2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015)

 

&n= bsp;

There d= oes not exist any IPR for this draft AFAIK.

&n= bsp;

With re= spect to 2 implementations, we are currently in the process of validating i= nter-operability of 2 implementations.

&n= bsp;

Regards= ,

Shitans= hu

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <= shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Monday, January 19, 2015 at 8:34 AM
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org><= br> Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" <= jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19= /2015 rto 2/5/2015)

&n= bsp;

 =

This is to begin a 2 wee= k Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange.   Please comment on the = usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical pros/cons of th= e draft.  In your comments please include:  =93support=94 or =93no support=94 indicate.  Authors should indicate if any IPR exi= sts for this draft, and the number of implementations that exist.

 =

If this draft does not h= ave 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG LC completed, awaiting 2= implementations.

 =

The draft can be found a= t:

 =

http://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/

 =

Sue Hares

--_000_D10292C3CDCBsvshahciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Feb 13 00:12:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609FB1A1B89; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ecNEq5-3NRV1; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D4F1A0370; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:11:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: DraftTracker Mail System To: , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213081153.6672.94302.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:11:53 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: iesg-secretary@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Last Call Expired: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:12:13 -0000 Please DO NOT reply to this email. I-D: ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ IETF Last Call has ended, and the state has been changed to Waiting for AD Go-Ahead. From nobody Fri Feb 13 00:12:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 043AA1A1B99; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609FB1A1B89; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ecNEq5-3NRV1; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D4F1A0370; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:11:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: DraftTracker Mail System To: , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213081153.6672.94302.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 00:11:53 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: iesg-secretary@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Last Call Expired: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:12:13 -0000 Please DO NOT reply to this email. I-D: ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ IETF Last Call has ended, and the state has been changed to Waiting for AD Go-Ahead. From nobody Fri Feb 13 06:18:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A59F1A8702 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:18:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gOoyO6f2QeFF for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41211A86FB for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:18:53 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Shitanshu Shah \(svshah\)'" , "'idr wg'" References: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> <024c01d034e7$aee7a210$0cb6e630$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:18:40 -0500 Message-ID: <0afb01d04797$f7384c00$e5a8e400$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0AFC_01D0476E.0E63A390" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJtp6va5v9ej5Bykj+yKjPQJ5I1JALVfpyFAy9LtZgBRlDkdpt5h5dw Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 14:18:57 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0AFC_01D0476E.0E63A390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shitanshu: Can you give a reference for the ExaBGP implementation or an explanation on list? I'm not familiar with that implementation. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (svshah) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:29 PM To: Susan Hares; 'idr wg' Cc: 'John G. Scudder' Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) Implementation and inter-operability results are documented at, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-svshah-idr-sla-exchange-impl-02.tx t The inter-operability is tested between 2 Cisco OS implementations as well with ExaBGP implementation. Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 11:31 AM To: svshah , 'idr wg' Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) Shitanshu: This is great news about the 2 interoperability implementations. Please send the results over your inter-operability tests to the idr list. Sue From: Shitanshu Shah (svshah) [mailto:svshah@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:34 PM To: Susan Hares; idr wg Cc: 'John G. Scudder' Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) There does not exist any IPR for this draft AFAIK. With respect to 2 implementations, we are currently in the process of validating inter-operability of 2 implementations. Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares Date: Monday, January 19, 2015 at 8:34 AM To: idr wg Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange. Please comment on the usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical pros/cons of the draft. In your comments please include: "support" or "no support" indicate. Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for this draft, and the number of implementations that exist. If this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG LC completed, awaiting 2 implementations. The draft can be found at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ Sue Hares ------=_NextPart_000_0AFC_01D0476E.0E63A390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Shitanshu:

 

Can you give a reference = for the ExaBGP implementation or an explanation on list?  I’m = not familiar with that implementation.

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah = (svshah)
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:29 = PM
To: Susan Hares; 'idr wg'
Cc: 'John G. = Scudder'
Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for = draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto = 2/5/2015)

 

 

=

Implementation and = inter-operability results are documented = at,

 

=

The inter-operability is tested = between 2 Cisco OS implementations as well with ExaBGP = implementation.

 

=

Regards,

Shitanshu

 

=

From: = Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: = Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 11:31 AM
To: svshah <svshah@cisco.com>, 'idr wg' = <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: = "'John G. Scudder'" <jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: RE: = [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto = 2/5/2015)

 

=

Shitanshu:

 

This is great news about the 2 interoperability = implementations. Please send the results over your inter-operability = tests to the idr list.

 

Sue

 

= From:= Shitanshu Shah (svshah) [mailto:svshah@cisco.com] =
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:34 PM
To: Susan = Hares; idr wg
Cc: 'John G. Scudder'
Subject: Re: = [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto = 2/5/2015)

 

 

There = does not exist any IPR for this draft AFAIK.

 

With = respect to 2 implementations, we are currently in the process of = validating inter-operability of 2 implementations.

 

Regards,

Shitanshu

 

From: = Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: = Monday, January 19, 2015 at 8:34 AM
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: = "'John G. Scudder'" <jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: [Idr] 2 = Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto = 2/5/2015)

 

 

This is to begin a 2 week = Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange.   Please comment on the = usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical pros/cons of = the draft.  In your comments please include:  = “support” or “no support” indicate. =  Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for this draft, and the = number of implementations that exist.

 

If this draft does not = have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG LC completed, = awaiting 2 implementations.

 

The draft can be found at: =

 

htt= p://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/<= /span>

 

Sue Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_0AFC_01D0476E.0E63A390-- From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:13:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AA01A8740 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:13:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URtmVbI3e8Yh for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31DA11A005F for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:13:53 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from crumpet.local (089-101-195154.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.154] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1DHDsGf016392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:13:54 GMT (envelope-from nick@inex.ie) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.netability.ie: Host 089-101-195154.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.154] (may be forged) claimed to be crumpet.local Message-ID: <54DE30CE.3000404@inex.ie> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:13:50 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> In-Reply-To: X-Company-Info-1: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited. Registered in Ireland No. 253804 X-Company-Info-2: Registered Offices: 1-2, Marino Mart, Fairview, Dublin 3 X-Company-Info-3: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited is limited by guarantee X-Company-Info-4: Offices: 4027 Kingswood Road, Citywest, Dublin 24. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: John Heasly , idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:13:56 -0000 On 12/02/2015 23:18, Randy Bush wrote: > what i don't get is, once you've thrown in add-path and diverse path, > why it left out flowspec, neighbor discovery, and dhcp options. this > could have been simpler; multi-rib is the direct solution. tempting through it was to throw in everything including the kitchen sink, we drew the limit at protocols which would actually make a difference to dealing with the path hiding problem. But if you want to suggest some text to include flowspec, dhcpv6 prefix selection over bgp, ND via avian carrier or anything else, the authors will promise to treat it appropriately and not think the less of you for it :-) Nick From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:27:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96951A006F for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:27:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ylKeOCLwxhcK for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA46A1A00E6 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:27:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=16722; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1423848470; x=1425058070; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=PRJinSwQH01zLPU+6HQ93gdjo4S9g9GENGHuHgMhkx8=; b=FcplPhttMfgepjbXB5p6IvNi6gb8NJhJnPiG5jfACMqNyClqb07Sv57O ihupLi8FNS1uG5hOah3Wbcfz6M1cmV+gDZ649uTgBcDbK3/VF5nkfbxIj MsAU/FzyEigu5BhGUoSO9G3aOabydB+GkG6d7gUrIzA5HGmQyw1RmrU15 U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CPBgBdM95U/4UNJK1bgkNDUloEsn2NQoFthW8CgRRDAQEBAQEBfIQMAQEBBC1MEAIBCA4DAwEBASgHMhQJCAEBBAENBQkRiBMN1TgBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXiwyEXA0EBgGEKgWPNINWhV+BGDiCT4sogz4igjKBPG8BgQMkHH8BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,571,1418083200"; d="scan'208,217";a="395788299" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Feb 2015 17:27:50 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1DHRn2s001479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:27:49 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.5.197]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:27:49 -0600 From: "Shitanshu Shah (svshah)" To: Susan Hares , "'idr wg'" Thread-Topic: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) Thread-Index: AdA0Bc0QLug1SFDRSjq/JCByM24SQwAyQjSAABLIwQAEgHCqgAAroXYA//+uuoA= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:27:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> <024c01d034e7$aee7a210$0cb6e630$@ndzh.com> <0afb01d04797$f7384c00$e5a8e400$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <0afb01d04797$f7384c00$e5a8e400$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [10.24.216.32] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D10371CECE54svshahciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:27:54 -0000 --_000_D10371CECE54svshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, Its an open bgp implementation from Exa Networks overlooked by Thomas Mangi= n. Couple of ExaBGP references: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/thomas_mangin/content-exabgp-new-tool-interac= t-bgp https://github.com/Exa-Networks/exabgp Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares > Date: Friday, February 13, 2015 at 6:18 AM To: svshah >, 'idr wg' > Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" > Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/20= 15 rto 2/5/2015) Shitanshu: Can you give a reference for the ExaBGP implementation or an explanation on= list? I=92m not familiar with that implementation. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (svshah= ) Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:29 PM To: Susan Hares; 'idr wg' Cc: 'John G. Scudder' Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/20= 15 rto 2/5/2015) Implementation and inter-operability results are documented at, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-svshah-idr-sla-exchange-impl-02.t= xt The inter-operability is tested between 2 Cisco OS implementations as well = with ExaBGP implementation. Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 11:31 AM To: svshah >, 'idr wg' > Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" > Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/20= 15 rto 2/5/2015) Shitanshu: This is great news about the 2 interoperability implementations. Please sen= d the results over your inter-operability tests to the idr list. Sue From: Shitanshu Shah (svshah) [mailto:svshah@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:34 PM To: Susan Hares; idr wg Cc: 'John G. Scudder' Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/20= 15 rto 2/5/2015) There does not exist any IPR for this draft AFAIK. With respect to 2 implementations, we are currently in the process of valid= ating inter-operability of 2 implementations. Regards, Shitanshu From: Susan Hares > Date: Monday, January 19, 2015 at 8:34 AM To: idr wg > Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" > Subject: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 r= to 2/5/2015) This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange. Please c= omment on the usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical p= ros/cons of the draft. In your comments please include: =93support=94 or = =93no support=94 indicate. Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for t= his draft, and the number of implementations that exist. If this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG = LC completed, awaiting 2 implementations. The draft can be found at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ Sue Hares --_000_D10371CECE54svshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <942EBD3ED9D51E4B95EFA037FFCCBA28@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,

Its an open bgp implementation from Exa Networks overlooked by Thomas = Mangin.

Couple of ExaBGP references:

Regards,
Shitanshu

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Friday, February 13, 2015 at = 6:18 AM
To: svshah <svshah@cisco.com>, 'idr wg' <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" &= lt;jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for= draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015)

Shitanshu: =

 

Can you give a referen= ce for the ExaBGP implementation or an explanation on list?  I=92m not= familiar with that implementation.

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailt= o:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (svshah)
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:29 PM
To: Susan Hares; 'idr wg'
Cc: 'John G. Scudder'
Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (= 2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015)

 

&n= bsp;

Impleme= ntation and inter-operability results are documented at,<= /p>

&n= bsp;

The int= er-operability is tested between 2 Cisco OS implementations as well with Ex= aBGP implementation.

&n= bsp;

Regards= ,

Shitans= hu

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <= shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 11:31 AM
To: svshah <svshah@cisco.com<= /a>>, 'idr wg' <idr@ietf.org><= br> Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" <= jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: RE: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (= 2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015)

&n= bsp;

Shitanshu:

 

This is great news abo= ut the 2 interoperability implementations. Please send the results over you= r inter-operability tests to the idr list.

 

Sue

 

From: Shitanshu Shah (svshah= ) [mailto:svshah@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:34 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr wg
Cc: 'John G. Scudder'
Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (= 2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015)

 =

 <= /span>

There d= oes not exist any IPR for this draft AFAIK.

 <= /span>

With re= spect to 2 implementations, we are currently in the process of validating i= nter-operability of 2 implementations.

 <= /span>

Regards= ,

Shitans= hu

 <= /span>

From: Susan Hares <= shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Monday, January 19, 2015 at 8:34 AM
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org><= br> Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" <= jgs@bgp.nu>
Subject: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19= /2015 rto 2/5/2015)

 <= /span>

 =

This is to begin a 2 wee= k Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange.   Please comment on the = usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical pros/cons of th= e draft.  In your comments please include:  =93support=94 or =93no support=94 indicate.  Authors should indicate if any IPR exi= sts for this draft, and the number of implementations that exist.

 =

If this draft does not h= ave 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG LC completed, awaiting 2= implementations.

 =

The draft can be found a= t:

 =

http://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/

 =

Sue Hares

--_000_D10371CECE54svshahciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:35:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8311A8793; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qnL7v2pqr93n; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE1E1A00F6; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213173440.17142.26039.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:40 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:35:23 -0000 IESG state changed to AD Evaluation from Publication Requested ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution/ From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:35:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 3290E1A8794; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8311A8793; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qnL7v2pqr93n; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE1E1A00F6; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213173440.17142.26039.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:40 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:35:23 -0000 IESG state changed to AD Evaluation from Publication Requested ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution/ From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:35:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89ACB1A877E; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B2Ay46sg8_2e; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF06F1A8782; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213173458.6738.82328.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:58 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:35:54 -0000 IESG state changed to AD Evaluation from Publication Requested ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl/ From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:36:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id B6E881A87C4; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89ACB1A877E; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B2Ay46sg8_2e; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF06F1A8782; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213173458.6738.82328.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:34:58 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:35:54 -0000 IESG state changed to AD Evaluation from Publication Requested ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-impl/ From nobody Fri Feb 13 09:36:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F04A1A87EB; 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Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:36:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F04A1A87EB; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:36:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gzUk6ua4hYTG; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525791A00E1; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150213173518.6702.72862.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 09:35:18 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 17:36:16 -0000 IESG state changed to AD Evaluation from Publication Requested ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis/ From nobody Sat Feb 14 06:54:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0BE1A1F00 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 06:54:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2lqXqAf55qwN for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 06:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A66B71A00F3 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 06:54:35 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: Received: from cupcake.foobar.org (xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1EEsR9p023830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:54:30 GMT (envelope-from nick@inex.ie) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.netability.ie: Host xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84] claimed to be cupcake.foobar.org Message-ID: <54DF61A1.3010908@inex.ie> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:54:25 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> <54DB8173.40006@inex.ie> In-Reply-To: X-Company-Info-1: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited. Registered in Ireland No. 253804 X-Company-Info-2: Registered Offices: 1-2, Marino Mart, Fairview, Dublin 3 X-Company-Info-3: Internet Neutral Exchange Association Limited is limited by guarantee X-Company-Info-4: Offices: 4027 Kingswood Road, Citywest, Dublin 24. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:54:39 -0000 On 12/02/2015 15:21, Randy Bush wrote: > but MLPA is less and less common on IXen. Reality - with its well known liberal bias - may disagree with you on this point. https://www.euro-ix.net/documents/1467-euro-ix-route-servers-stats-pdf Nick From nobody Sat Feb 14 08:39:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BFC1A6F10 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:39:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lGkCvdifghQx for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB7341A6F0D for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YMfkJ-00013J-Ri; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:39:08 +0000 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 01:39:06 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nick Hilliard In-Reply-To: <54DF61A1.3010908@inex.ie> References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> <009301d0408e$f58ac370$e0a04a50$@ndzh.com> <54DB8173.40006@inex.ie> <54DF61A1.3010908@inex.ie> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:39:14 -0000 >> but MLPA is less and less common on IXen. > Reality - with its well known liberal bias - may disagree with you on > this point. > https://www.euro-ix.net/documents/1467-euro-ix-route-servers-stats-pdf having trouble finding data for or against in that (nice) report (from liberal europe:-) randy From nobody Sat Feb 14 09:00:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5981A6F13 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:00:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id avbgy285AePB for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0798.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::798]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E925F1A6EED for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.11) by DBXPR03MB590.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.87.18; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:00:14 +0000 Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) by DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) with mapi id 15.01.0087.013; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:00:14 +0000 From: "Neil J. McRae" To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AQHQRlY44pbQk601aE+c4rh++XFY+JzsXFGAgABAhACAAAjrgIAABEaAgAC+OYCAABOoAIAAK9kAgAAC+ACAAADRgIAAAe2AgAAJQoCAAqwCeQ== Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:00:14 +0000 Message-ID: <29CDD34F-6B29-416A-BAB9-8B731DBD62F9@domino.org> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [86.153.139.193] authentication-results: psg.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB590; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB590; x-forefront-prvs: 0487C0DB7E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(24454002)(5423002)(33656002)(87936001)(54356999)(76176999)(2656002)(83716003)(50986999)(110136001)(86362001)(66066001)(92566002)(40100003)(230783001)(106116001)(62966003)(77156002)(46102003)(82746002)(19580395003)(102836002)(77096005)(19580405001)(93886004)(2950100001)(36756003)(2900100001)(122556002)(15975445007)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR03MB590; H:DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: domino.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Feb 2015 17:00:14.5114 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 398f3eb4-3394-48e7-885c-de1ab2a9cf2e X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBXPR03MB590 Archived-At: Cc: idr wg , Robert Raszuk Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:00:39 -0000 randy I'm in trouble! I am taking the maximum dosage after your flowspec comment = earlier only to now read you are working on a neutral and community ran int= ernet exchange point! I dare not read any more incase I see that you've dep= loyed MPLS as I'll have to be carried out on a stretcher! ;) Back on topic I think the changes have been proposed before and frankly are= well overdue - use case for route servers is clear - even if you can get s= ome orchestration/config vending solution getting the same solution rolled = out to 40 plus IX points, sadly, is very unlikely. I am no fan of route ser= vers but they are a needed evil. Neil > On 13 Feb 2015, at 00:12, Randy Bush wrote: >=20 > i come from heas's world. in fact, he is riding on the descendant of my > 20 year old code. >=20 > but, with another hat, i am helping to engineer the new (inagurated this > week) bangkok neutral ix. and it has an rs pair and ixp-manager. this > is what folk want and expect, especially smaller folk. it's not as simpl= e > as i would like. it is not easy to explain. but it is useful. and no, > we're not translating flowspec into thai. :) >=20 > randy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Sat Feb 14 09:26:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C5B1A6FE6 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:26:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vg2ipxrcJ8O7 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE6341A0040 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YMgUI-0001I8-GF; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:26:38 +0000 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:26:37 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "Neil J. McRae" In-Reply-To: <29CDD34F-6B29-416A-BAB9-8B731DBD62F9@domino.org> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:26:46 -0000 tl;dr: read last para > I'm in trouble! I am taking the maximum dosage after your flowspec > comment earlier only to now read you are working on a neutral and > community ran internet exchange point! my first such was in the early '90s. i just don't kiss and tell. > I dare not read any more incase I see that you've deployed MPLS as > I'll have to be carried out on a stretcher! ;) we prostitutes have our limits > Back on topic I think the changes have been proposed before and > frankly are well overdue - use case for route servers is clear - even > if you can get some orchestration/config vending solution getting the > same solution rolled out to 40 plus IX points, sadly, is very > unlikely. I am no fan of route servers but they are a needed evil. the other decade, i spent some time and energy trying to get peers at an exchange i helped build to do bgp autoconfig from shared data. it was too complex for the smaller ones. i have been the poster child for irr based configs for over 20 years. it has not gone well. route servers with front ends such as ixp-mangler seem to have enough web gooey that folk can use them. the problem is that non-congruence of the data and control planes has consequences which have repeatedly bitten us, from datakit, atm, ... so i have ranted aginst them for some time. arnold asked what might make me able less uncomfortable with them. draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd-00.txt attempts to answer that. but this is probably the wrong venue for an ops discussion. this is where we see how many bgp tricks we can add to a simple idea to make it comfortably complex and fill out the contributors' list. so again, i think draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server is good to go, unless the authors have the guts to cut 2.3.2.2, Advertising Multiple Paths. and i think draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd-00.txt might even make it palatable to me. randy From nobody Sat Feb 14 10:14:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9820F1A00E0 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:14:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z1rEnqim5C-R for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0741.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::741]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 121DB1A0037 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.11) by DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.87.18; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:56:34 +0000 Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) by DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) with mapi id 15.01.0087.013; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:56:34 +0000 From: "Neil J. McRae" To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AQHQRlY44pbQk601aE+c4rh++XFY+JzsXFGAgABAhACAAAjrgIAABEaAgAC+OYCAABOoAIAAK9kAgAAC+ACAAADRgIAAAe2AgAAJQoCAAqwCeYAAB1+AgAAIXyI= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:56:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [86.153.139.193] authentication-results: psg.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB589; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB589; x-forefront-prvs: 0487C0DB7E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(5423002)(106116001)(230783001)(77096005)(54356999)(46102003)(76176999)(50986999)(110136001)(66066001)(2950100001)(2900100001)(83716003)(93886004)(82746002)(19580395003)(86362001)(87936001)(2656002)(33656002)(40100003)(122556002)(102836002)(77156002)(92566002)(36756003)(62966003)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR03MB589; H:DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: domino.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Feb 2015 17:56:34.7170 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 398f3eb4-3394-48e7-885c-de1ab2a9cf2e X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBXPR03MB589 Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:14:19 -0000 > the other decade, i spent some time and energy trying to get peers at an > exchange i helped build to do bgp autoconfig from shared data. it was > too complex for the smaller ones. i have been the poster child for irr > based configs for over 20 years. it has not gone well. unfortunately. >=20 > route servers with front ends such as ixp-mangler seem to have enough > web gooey that folk can use them. the problem is that non-congruence of > the data and control planes has consequences which have repeatedly > bitten us, from datakit, atm, ... so i have ranted aginst them for some > time. arnold asked what might make me able less uncomfortable with > them. draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd-00.txt attempts to answer that. >=20 > but this is probably the wrong venue for an ops discussion. this is > where we see how many bgp tricks we can add to a simple idea to make it > comfortably complex and fill out the contributors' list. >=20 > so again, i think draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server is good to go, > unless the authors have the guts to cut 2.3.2.2, Advertising Multiple > Paths. and i think draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd-00.txt might even make it > palatable to me. >=20 I agree. I think it's good to go also and bfd makes a lot of sense as a so= lution given its already there.=20 I note now though my concerns on implementation of section 2; it's the nece= ssary evil recurrence loop - it feels like a huge effort for limited return= , but as a solution for those practising the route server necessary evil - = it's acceptable and Nick is right in that we in ops live this life now. I can't help feeling with more and more depth and diversity in exchange of = traffic we will be back to redo this in the future.= From nobody Sat Feb 14 10:41:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A6371A0067 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:41:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CmljfSxKWu7n for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE4C11A0037 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:41:15 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: Received: from cupcake.foobar.org (xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1EIf8GA024683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:41:09 GMT (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.netability.ie: Host xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84] claimed to be cupcake.foobar.org Message-ID: <54DF96C4.6090900@foobar.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:41:08 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> , In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 18:41:18 -0000 On 14/02/2015 17:56, Neil J. McRae wrote: > I can't help feeling with more and more depth and diversity in exchange > of traffic we will be back to redo this in the future. The ix-bgp-route-server ID is primarily about legitimising the BGP behaviour necessary for route servers to be able to operate. Regarding interconnection at IXPs, we're already doing groundwork on this: https://github.com/euro-ix/json-schemas We have running code to match. Nick From nobody Sat Feb 14 11:04:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDB91A0141 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:04:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gg3X37cItMiZ for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from excession.bakker.net (home.bakker.net [195.64.94.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4B821A0121 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:04:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by excession.bakker.net (Postfix, from userid 910) id CAB88270; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:04:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:04:26 +0100 From: niels@bakker.net (Niels Bakker) To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20150214190426.GA27426@excession.tpb.net> References: <20150212075505.GC53388@shrubbery.net> <20150212193113.GR67810@shrubbery.net> <54DD0FFE.8070608@inex.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 19:04:34 -0000 Randy, * randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) [Fri 13 Feb 2015, 01:12 CET]: >but, with another hat, i am helping to engineer the new (inagurated this >week) bangkok neutral ix. and it has an rs pair and ixp-manager. this >is what folk want and expect, especially smaller folk. it's not as simple >as i would like. it is not easy to explain. but it is useful. and no, >we're not translating flowspec into thai. :) As somebody who connects to a rather large number of IXPs, thank you for choosing to implement IXP Manager and route servers, and as author, for supporting this draft. Regards, -- Niels. From nobody Sun Feb 15 02:24:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15281A1AA9; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:24:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69-gFVroQfrH; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-9.mail.exa.net.uk (out-9.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.137]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2B5E1A1AA7; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.1]) by out-9.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id 366DB1C0054; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:24:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1FAF2221335; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:24:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bluemind.exa.net.uk (bluemind.exa.net.uk [82.219.13.108]) by smtp-1.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:24:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bluemind.exa.net.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23801120CB3; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:24:38 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:24:38 +0000 From: Thomas Mangin To: Cc: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: X-Sender: thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.8.5 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at out-2-2.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:24:46 -0000 Sounds like it is time to find a big basher and get this author to finish his draft (under duress if it helps to get it out quickly :p). Thomas On 2015-02-11 23:55, David Freedman wrote: >> it would be more sensible to define a new bgp attribute to allow RS >> clients >> to announce BFD candidacy to the RSN > > +1 > > Actually, I was speaking recently to another author who planned to > resurrect it in another as yet unpublished draft > involving a new BGP attribute to signal next-hop liveliness detection > (hopefully this post will prompt them into action to mention it). > > In this discussion, we determined that these duties could probably be > devolved directly to BFD itself, which could (if configured suitably) > be > left to discover potential peers and set up sessions based on seeing > them > as next hops in the incoming BGP RIBs learned from the IXP route > server. > This seemed like a much better approach than leaving it to BGP and the > RS > (which relieves some of the potential burden on it IMHO) > > Dave. > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Sun Feb 15 02:28:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A228F1A1AAC; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XSZxVukXrOiq; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from out-9.mail.exa.net.uk (out-9.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.4.137]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40D961A1AA7; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk [82.219.5.2]) by out-9.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id ED98F1C0053; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:28:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTP id D669440366; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:28:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mangin.local (ptr-42.212.219.82.rev.exa.net.uk [82.219.212.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: thomas@mangin.com) by smtp-2.mail.exa.net.uk (ExaSMTPD) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:28:15 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <54E074BE.2080207@exa-networks.co.uk> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:28:14 +0000 From: Thomas Mangin User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr-bounces@ietf.org CC: 'idr wg' References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000302030506020406010105" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at out-2-2.mail.exa.net.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 10:28:19 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000302030506020406010105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just in time for it : I am supporting this draft. Thomas > Susan Hares > 2 February 2015 17:36 > > WG LC is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015 > > > > *From:*Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares > *Sent:* Monday, February 02, 2015 11:42 AM > *To:* idr wg > *Subject:* [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server > > > > > > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and > a 2 week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report. > > > > You can find these drafts at: > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation/ > > > > The draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability > between Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD. > > > > Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange > points, and include in your comments support or no support. > > > > > > Sue Hares and John Scudder > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Thomas -- http://exa.net.uk/about/contact-us --------------000302030506020406010105 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------090700080408080201030501" --------------090700080408080201030501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just in time for it : I am supporting this draft.

Thomas
2 February 2015 17:36

WG LC  is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:42 AM
To: idr wg
Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server

 

 

This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2 week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report.

 

You can find these drafts at:   

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation/

 

The draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server has demonstrated interoperability between Cisco, Quagga, and BIRD.

 

Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange points, and include in your comments support or no support.

 

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


--
Thomas
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--------------090700080408080201030501 Content-Type: image/jpeg; x-apple-mail-type=stationery; name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Disposition: inline; filename="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEARwBHAAD/2wBDAAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEC AQEBAQEBAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgL/2wBDAQEBAQEBAQICAgICAgIC AgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgL/wAAR CAAZABkDAREAAhEBAxEB/8QAGAAAAwEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgcICQr/xAA0EAABAwMCAgUK BwAAAAAAAAACAQMEBQYRABITIQcUMUF2CBUXIjI2N0JRtVRWkZOV0dL/xAAYAQEAAwEAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADAAEEAv/EACQRAAICAAQGAwAAAAAAAAAAAAABAhEDMrHREyExM0FxgfDx/9oA DAMBAAIRAxEAPwDuEt+gW/ULet6oVC3rfqNQqFv0OfPn1GhUqfOmzZtKZlS5UqZMaNwzNwiJ VIl7eXLCaZIGwBl3TY8epPx2+jy2ZNPjvkwc9uhW8j7nCPhvOsQliYIeS7cvCpp8o50qwrC4 v3lsNSDbdmTEhvs2tahxpfV3WnmbbozJEw/gwdadbYExVRXKEKoSdvJcaOSqxE7/AAiX0gXx +a69/JSf9alIlste0VzaNpeFrcT9KKymotyiaZ0KRCnzacoE7Kjzn4gi2KqUh3jqDHDHv4mR UfruTWlMzlVUKIVNp9GguEJnAh0+IZjyAiisgyRDnu5azS8miKqjOTVkKqS/psG37fo1Fbab eg25b8eZPeFJBBJSjMG5HjMeyihnaauZwe4OGiju13GAcpOwBeN+U8/IkGbsiS8b7ryogmbz hbyc9REROfZhERO5ETShjPtvpGqTUyLErytS4siSwx5x2tRH4hPOI0DkjZtaJtFxuVEbIUUi yeNujlBUJGbJN6nM/Cyf2Hf60YgjvKA+NPSP4gT7axpcPtr51YWJnYn9dnAQWl722p4ot37y zqnlfp6FrqbwawG8/9k= --------------090700080408080201030501-- --------------000302030506020406010105-- From nobody Mon Feb 16 00:28:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895681A8752 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 00:28:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.512 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id juOUlIgQYgf2 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 00:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from de-cix.net (relay3.de-cix.net [IPv6:2a02:c50:0:1e::3:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C96801A1A67 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 00:28:39 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.09,586,1418079600"; d="p7s'?scan'208"; a="1559412" Received: from ms-exchange.de-cix.net ([192.168.67.12]) by mailgw011.de-cix.net with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 16 Feb 2015 09:28:37 +0100 Received: from MS-Exchange.de-cix.net ([fe80::250:56ff:fe9e:3eea]) by MS-Exchange.de-cix.net ([fe80::250:56ff:fe9e:3eea%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 09:28:41 +0100 From: Thomas King To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server Thread-Index: AQHQScKR6mQuTFrlwUWgIclrD5+YWQ== Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:28:40 +0000 Message-ID: <97CAEF7B-DD0A-48A3-B100-42BF62D39906@de-cix.net> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.140.93] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5B92D925-1DF4-4D8B-8DEE-44A42A281E73"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:28:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5B92D925-1DF4-4D8B-8DEE-44A42A281E73 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Chairs and WG, we at DE-CIX operate one of the biggest Internet exchange points (IPXs) = in the world: DE-CIX Frankfurt. At our six different IXPs we highly rely on route = servers. So, we have strong experience with bird and quagga and can confirm that the = implementation report is correct. As IETF builds on persons not companies: I strongly support publication = of draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server Best regards, Thomas --=20 Dr. Thomas King Manager Research & Development DE-CIX Management GmbH | Lindleystra=C3=9Fe 12 | 60314 Frankfurt am Main = | Germany | www.de-cix.net | Phone +49 69 1730902 87 | Mobile +49 175 1161428 | Fax +49 69 4056 2716 = | thomas.king@de-cix.net | Geschaeftsfuehrer Harald A. Summa | Registergericht AG Koeln HRB 51135 --Apple-Mail=_5B92D925-1DF4-4D8B-8DEE-44A42A281E73 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJPzCCBBcw ggL/oAMCAQICCwQAAAAAATGJxjDEMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMEwxIDAeBgNVBAsTF0dsb2JhbFNp Z24gUm9vdCBDQSAtIFIzMRMwEQYDVQQKEwpHbG9iYWxTaWduMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpHbG9iYWxTaWdu MB4XDTExMDgwMjEwMDAwMFoXDTE5MDgwMjEwMDAwMFowXTELMAkGA1UEBhMCQkUxGTAXBgNVBAoT EEdsb2JhbFNpZ24gbnYtc2ExMzAxBgNVBAMTKkdsb2JhbFNpZ24gUGVyc29uYWxTaWduIDIgQ0Eg LSBTSEEyNTYgLSBHMjCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAKYBOgY+TD0lJ71l 7FcN0/Nzj61Z4eB/NxJMsSxhevgtUUcwxyWYkoHDl+FoQMXe8JSYraOIN7UpZvvDa9fVVpouxlnk 1upfRTHJRpU636SlHTEE5ZnXTYWQ3pTL51oEoPL4fL4OIHHO8Xe0H7X/9nw+N8tNxCCiGKRBMCcH HXuJLeW3pFUISGaVwfc2mye8mjIw+bjIJ6gtjK66WaUW6fWY323qkkS8W9uzdCXKVpGPkZUhsmqW fGlg2msfbx3O8to8LaCk0RqlVvV+g7ZrY7xBwdWGfZKCRd5R1kt2QBYOBtZfRBV7dfPMsjI4XcQU uKyTYpccj7VTvLdaf+B+TZkCAwEAAaOB6DCB5TAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAQYwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgw BgEB/wIBADAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUP2xXRJ5Xn339aDnLufEa5Ll2UDgwRwYDVR0gBEAwPjA8BgRVHSAA MDQwMgYIKwYBBQUHAgEWJmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmdsb2JhbHNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvMDYG A1UdHwQvMC0wK6ApoCeGJWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5uZXQvcm9vdC1yMy5jcmwwHwYD VR0jBBgwFoAUj/BLf6guRSSuTVD6Y5qL3uLdG7wwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADggEBAEWk43dt8+mP vv8ou8ZzoNxtjS0WuP0v/qiu9VX/JBjb+7X1tiWtGc2UqaUO+Y4irbiawHdgYnAXDNW1h8pCog+u z7kVIYegYhBWyQhlrn3c2sjXK+aRVFe44Ygfdmgcrj1Y7E6g9YvaGOhwZsr1IyQYkgejewpRDb+O B+3Cr5JtwJYuar3TNXrzOZnDnZSqOkvSASOlk1m5fPCYam4MdSTCJQRtz9Apcz3zcaJmlBkQsSix LzUqfPpTjheBjLoMJzhnRpZnOZiwe6J4LDrXyZqNSB5MCUIdCxWQlrt6ed8y07KPueYXPlZh0iUt vUEdL6Et8YULkFMQqQ7aAZtxBYMwggUgMIIECKADAgECAhEA2O44+rO7W3RMNf2nPhVNvTANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQsFADBdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJCRTEZMBcGA1UEChMQR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBudi1zYTEzMDEG A1UEAxMqR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBQZXJzb25hbFNpZ24gMiBDQSAtIFNIQTI1NiAtIEcyMB4XDTE0MTIx NzE0MDMwNVoXDTE3MTIxNzE0MDMwNVowgaExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMQwwCgYDVQQIEwNOUlcxEDAO BgNVBAcTB0NvbG9nbmUxHzAdBgNVBAoTFkRFLUNJWCBNYW5hZ2VtZW50IEdtYkgxFDASBgNVBAsT C0VuZ2luZWVyaW5nMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtUaG9tYXMgS2luZzElMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYWdGhvbWFz LmtpbmdAZGUtY2l4Lm5ldDCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAOP1el+NQvS5 4TU/sO77bxd2pGMFw15OZIPm4ggIanvFGMo/UqUEpq4eOSQp7qhyYr4ROr1bbTGkPNEnsXn1Ogoa 0/xt2mQhpWlO4IykBN9eo09ZSuiQEWGHnKWNUevDRQpbkugZuvla8MVCWhIuDyc3JlzA8SaCVooj aKltl5qqLYf4yln61tvu44ByaKMniTzHrUvSPeEntr9ZkN477MCL3h4tp38vyvGvzEJTPv2x/i5v S2kFxNl7oSdd3TcBsevz5ui3XxXy1isO05KrVD6JTkXbZejsPRPEa6VsgeR6Q0FP833K/+7/EiYO tHfwiIAydO9wK6/u5mUX6n9MGJsCAwEAAaOCAZQwggGQMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFoDBNBgNVHSAE RjBEMEIGCisGAQQBoDIBKAowNDAyBggrBgEFBQcCARYmaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5j b20vcmVwb3NpdG9yeS8wIQYDVR0RBBowGIEWdGhvbWFzLmtpbmdAZGUtY2l4Lm5ldDAJBgNVHRME AjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBDBHBgNVHR8EQDA+MDygOqA4hjZodHRw Oi8vY3JsLmdsb2JhbHNpZ24uY29tL2dzL2dzcGVyc29uYWxzaWduMnNoYTJnMi5jcmwwWQYIKwYB BQUHAQEETTBLMEkGCCsGAQUFBzAChj1odHRwOi8vc2VjdXJlLmdsb2JhbHNpZ24uY29tL2NhY2Vy dC9nc3BlcnNvbmFsc2lnbjJzaGEyZzIuY3J0MB0GA1UdDgQWBBRWuQrVK+3zTtZn1ORSIsFcQJX+ 2jAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBQ/bFdEnlefff1oOcu58RrkuXZQODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFAAOCAQEAoMDH FHReZqkQtBmjceWw09VArN6a8h4GXRRJ+Tmv3ia2u66bgBRBtmE1vEeIPoS4OtoJSbAG0WUIVucW N9HgTJS7Cq1BvjHOaW5H0qxIViY67Re0coWnWhFdlQlCcZHTHDhgejZUhOdON3wLxzAkzctT/ACp 3SYBBGyqGo+XEPITbeqN33kf29qAjd+4kNuyLrF71I60wPwnNOCZxgKqxl0mLlcYU1XSz49rqk1N xko/OnrEY5w6brxIBABdOWe4b/He596QBdum0xq9CdHIRabYRzsKvChrT+TVkEI9pRRl2zsoNg+h JKWTGgLZHpnnq/3Ktc0z3xUiJtUvyz67nDGCAwQwggMAAgEBMHIwXTELMAkGA1UEBhMCQkUxGTAX BgNVBAoTEEdsb2JhbFNpZ24gbnYtc2ExMzAxBgNVBAMTKkdsb2JhbFNpZ24gUGVyc29uYWxTaWdu IDIgQ0EgLSBTSEEyNTYgLSBHMgIRANjuOPqzu1t0TDX9pz4VTb0wCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAWcwGAYJ KoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTUwMjE2MDgyODM2WjAjBgkq hkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUL+i66U3UyzZdofuzMSxjbTnyKawwgYEGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDF0MHIwXTELMAkG A1UEBhMCQkUxGTAXBgNVBAoTEEdsb2JhbFNpZ24gbnYtc2ExMzAxBgNVBAMTKkdsb2JhbFNpZ24g UGVyc29uYWxTaWduIDIgQ0EgLSBTSEEyNTYgLSBHMgIRANjuOPqzu1t0TDX9pz4VTb0wgYMGCyqG SIb3DQEJEAILMXSgcjBdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJCRTEZMBcGA1UEChMQR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBudi1zYTEz MDEGA1UEAxMqR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBQZXJzb25hbFNpZ24gMiBDQSAtIFNIQTI1NiAtIEcyAhEA2O44 +rO7W3RMNf2nPhVNvTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQAqxqLfYLtVdUSFNHH71Ifw2SgnbZ5qLVc0 lC78weH/EURHqRn/5pggczNkRmtt1RvJQlw29whYy9/ID3UuRBP3dsmdHUcbionA5paDf+OqFIwo Vox8m0CwDB22IzC0UdEV11zQHiMSg0cdV7n9txVPY+oSLjbThmUsIUbdde7dvoRksfEyTZ4kBStt V1NK7c4zEkg9I+PyURJvLCTZcmdMLVKtAhhTCdZ9/0zVd6CQZZbcROkVQCLgLYvt4BgPKw3HeSnx /3j46/UrPsPwCwoF8TqEEOU1cPcLYnJNKqpLXEwXGX598zB6+nNIhW33262g4pb3HtsKeNsFHUKG 3W78AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_5B92D925-1DF4-4D8B-8DEE-44A42A281E73-- From nobody Mon Feb 16 04:26:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9951A1AEB for ; 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Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:26:08 +0000 From: Andy Davidson To: idr wg Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AdA/DrP9AnR4BukQQH2q6r8fVU6pywK1QhYA Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:26:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) x-originating-ip: [217.113.160.50] authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR07MB0598; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR07MB0598; x-forefront-prvs: 0489CFBAC9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(243025005)(479174004)(24454002)(5423002)(92566002)(66066001)(76176999)(33656002)(19625735002)(50986999)(107886001)(87936001)(86362001)(15380165006)(230783001)(46102003)(77156002)(450100001)(62966003)(36756003)(57306001)(50226001)(2950100001)(19580405001)(19580395003)(122556002)(82746002)(83716003)(15975445007)(40100003)(2900100001)(110136001)(102836002)(2656002)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB0598; H:AM3PR07MB0597.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <1402CADD01EF9D4FAC2038644D4B3344@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nosignal.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Feb 2015 12:26:08.5058 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: a61134e6-d334-47cf-b242-72015747ad3b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB0598 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:26:25 -0000 On 2 Feb 2015, at 17:36, Susan Hares wrote: > WG LC is from 2/2/2015 to 2/16/2015 [=85] > This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-ix-bgp-route-server-06, and a 2= week WG adoption/LC for the associated WG report. > Please comment on if you feel this is useful for operating exchange point= s, and include in your comments support or no support. Colleagues, Route-servers are an operational reality and norm at modern Internet Exchan= ge Points. 80% of exchange points belonging to the European Internet Excha= nge Association (Euro-IX) operate a route-server service for their exchange= participants [0], and in my anecdotal experience as an operator of two oth= er exchanges in the UK (LONAP - 100Gbit/traffic, 150 participants & IXLeeds= - 4Gbit/traffic, 15 participants), they are requested, expected, and **USE= D** by over three quarters of exchange participants. Route-servers are growing in popularity, in 2010 only half of the Euro-IX m= embership operated and offered route-servers. This seems to be a worldwide phenomenon, I also work with the NapAfrica exc= hange which has a 94% adoption rate for the route-servers on the largest pe= ering LAN and a 100% adoption rate on the smallest peering LAN. They=92re = also a popular service on exchange points I help run in North America. Sev= eral exchange point operators in Asia have previously asked for my route-se= rver configuration generator scripts (I pray that are all migrated to IXP M= anager now). A great deal of work has been undertaken by the Euro-IX and wider peering c= ommunity to make route-servers more reliable. Back in the dinosaur days of= the late 2000s, we didn=92t have route-servers that could support multiple= -RIBs, and had to put up with route-servers with poor convergence performan= ce leading to blackholing of traffic whilst withdraws trickled through poor= ly performing route-server code. We started to write down what we wanted, n= o needed, the route servers to DO, and worked with the software vendors to = get these features built in. The result was better performing, tested soft= ware that was compliant against this stack. [1] The idea that our loosely defined, and these days only committed to memory,= list of wishes could instead be a document =85 an IETF document! =85 with = wider industry support, that can be used to describe our needs to the next = generation of route-server software vendors is fantastic. I fully and whol= eheartedly support the publication of this document. We=92ve accidentally, in this thread, gone down the path of considering whe= ther they are the best way forward for multilateral/mass peering. No they= =92re not, and let=92s do some work to find something better. But MLPA rou= te-servers are here for a long time to come, so let=92s publish this excell= ent specification document right away. [0] https://www.euro-ix.net/documents/1467-euro-ix-route-servers-stats-pdf?= download=3Dyes [1] http://www.uknof.org.uk/uknof15/Davidson-Bakeoff.pdf =97=20 Regards, Andy Davidson Relavent hats to this conversation: Board member, European Internet Exchange Association Director & Chairman, LONAP Ltd., IXLeeds Ltd. (United Kingdom) Council member, NapAfrica (South Africa) Vice President European Ops, IIX Inc. (North America)= From nobody Mon Feb 16 05:09:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387621A887D for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:09:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WWFaEuwurT1k for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF0921A1B19 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLQm-0007pE-JM; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:09:45 +0000 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:09:43 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Andy Davidson In-Reply-To: References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:09:49 -0000 > We=E2=80=99ve accidentally, in this thread, gone down the path of conside= ring > whether they are the best way forward for multilateral/mass peering. wow! i missed that. you must have been following the thread better than i. got a pointer? randy From nobody Mon Feb 16 05:18:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 403791A8893 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:18:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aqS3zJ8X2J8r for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0673.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::673]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0BD61A8894 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 05:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from AM3PR07MB0599.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.160.3.14) by AM3PR07MB242.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.18.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.87.18; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:17:41 +0000 Received: from AM3PR07MB0597.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.160.3.13) by AM3PR07MB0599.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.160.3.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.87.18; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:17:40 +0000 Received: from AM3PR07MB0597.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.3.13]) by AM3PR07MB0597.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.3.13]) with mapi id 15.01.0087.013; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:17:40 +0000 From: Andy Davidson To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) Thread-Index: AdA/DrP9AnR4BukQQH2q6r8fVU6pywK1QhYAAAGF94AAAEbIAA== Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:17:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <011c01d03f0e$c2ed7ba0$48c872e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) x-originating-ip: [217.113.160.50] authentication-results: psg.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR07MB0599;UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR07MB0599; x-forefront-prvs: 0489CFBAC9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(24454002)(5423002)(83716003)(77156002)(82746002)(92566002)(19580405001)(33656002)(50226001)(46102003)(57306001)(36756003)(558084003)(86362001)(2950100001)(2900100001)(50986999)(102836002)(110136001)(122556002)(230783001)(66066001)(76176999)(62966003)(19580395003)(2656002)(87936001)(40100003)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB0599; H:AM3PR07MB0597.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Feb 2015 13:17:40.0798 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: a61134e6-d334-47cf-b242-72015747ad3b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB0599 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR07MB242; X-OriginatorOrg: nosignal.org Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server (2/2/2015 - 2/16/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:18:06 -0000 On 16 Feb 2015, at 13:09, Randy Bush wrote: > wow! i missed that. you must have been following the thread better than= i. got a pointer? At the risk of opening that subthread up again, the messages around the 'gr= eat idea, but why use a RS at all?=92 comment from heasley. =20 Andy= From nobody Mon Feb 16 06:03:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4391A1B04 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 06:03:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MANGLED_EXTNSN=2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2e9D7sogH4Ag for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 06:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0780.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::780]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 576271A1AE8 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 06:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY1PR0501MB1240.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.160.200.139) by BY1PR0501MB1238.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (25.160.200.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.87.18; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:02:44 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0501MB1240.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.200.139]) by BY1PR0501MB1240.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([25.160.200.139]) with mapi id 15.01.0087.013; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:02:44 +0000 From: Pushpasis Sarkar To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQSfE7MqUX1IpgaUiBRD8mn4eTjg== Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:02:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150216135932.15342.73832.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150216135932.15342.73832.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.13] authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1238; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1238; x-forefront-prvs: 0489CFBAC9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(53754006)(377424004)(51704005)(377454003)(479174004)(24454002)(107886001)(2501002)(19580405001)(2950100001)(106116001)(2351001)(99286002)(83506001)(110136001)(19580395003)(2656002)(230783001)(122556002)(92566002)(2900100001)(102836002)(50986999)(76176999)(54356999)(66066001)(1720100001)(86362001)(87936001)(36756003)(15975445007)(77156002)(450100001)(46102003)(62966003)(40100003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0501MB1238; H:BY1PR0501MB1240.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6D7104EC27D4274B9C85F0B09F3B2D78@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Feb 2015 14:02:43.6735 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1238 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:03:03 -0000 Hi Everyone, It will be great if you can review this new draft and provide your comments and feedback. Thanks for your time in advance. Regards, -Pushpasis On 2/16/15, 7:29 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A new version of I-D, >draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-00.txt >has been successfully submitted by Pushpasis Sarkar and posted to the >IETF repository. > >Name: draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension >Revision: 00 >Title: Advertising Per-node Admin Tags in BGP Link-State Advertisements >Document date: 2015-02-16 >Group: Individual Submission >Pages: 11 >URL: =20 >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-ta >g-extension-00.txt >Status: =20 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-e >xtension/ >Htmlized: =20 >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extensi >on-00 > > >Abstract: > This document describes the protocol extensions to collect per-node > administrative tags adevertised in IGP Link State advertisements and > disseminate the same in BGP Link-State advertisement protocol, to > facilitate inter-AS TE applications that may need the same per-node > administrative tags to associate a subset of network devices spanning > across more than one AS with a specific functionality. > > > =20 > =20 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > From mathias.handsche@de-cix.net Mon Feb 16 02:16:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF1E01A8786 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 02:16:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBrVrrNJkS4N for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 02:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from de-cix.net (relay3.de-cix.net [IPv6:2a02:c50:0:1e::3:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61F131A8787 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 02:16:39 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,586,1418079600"; d="scan'208";a="1559785" Received: from ms-exchange.de-cix.net ([192.168.67.12]) by mailgw011.de-cix.net with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 16 Feb 2015 11:16:37 +0100 Received: from MS-Exchange.de-cix.net ([fe80::250:56ff:fe9e:3eea]) by MS-Exchange.de-cix.net ([fe80::250:56ff:fe9e:3eea%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 11:16:42 +0100 From: Mathias Handsche To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server Thread-Index: AQHQSdGofQciaLbRDEqU0NI9hSxQVw== Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:16:41 +0000 Message-ID: <0199D423-C24B-47E2-9C1B-1495F0F69438@de-cix.net> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.140.86] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2416518666D4D7479C63E8F027C8423D@de-cix.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:32:31 -0000 Dear Chairs and WG, we at DE-CIX operate one of the biggest Internet exchange points (IPXs) in = the world: DE-CIX Frankfurt. At our six different IXPs we highly rely on route servers= . So, we have strong experience with bird and quagga and can confirm that the implementat= ion report is correct. As IETF builds on persons not companies: I strongly support publication of draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server Best regards, Mathias Handsche -- Mathias Handsche Product Manager From nobody Mon Feb 16 13:41:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 247041A88BD for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:41:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id niwepNYtUk0d for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D4A1A88B2 for ; 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Tue, 17 Feb 2015 03:08:51 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:08:44 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Antoni Przygienda , "bier@ietf.org" , idr wg Thread-Topic: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQSlZlMR85vC1xX0KsHdMGHaa/oZz0Gozg Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 03:08:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083097F5@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8NKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 03:08:58 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, Thanks a lot for your valuable comments and suggestion. Please see my respo= nse inline. From: Antoni Przygienda [mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:07 AM To: Xuxiaohu; bier@ietf.org; idr wg Subject: RE: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-exte= nsions-00.txt Xuxiaohu, thanks for the work. multiple things: The BFR-ID TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD2 Length:5 Value: contains a two-octet BFR-ID. I am missing here the indication of subdomain-id since without that, the BF= R-ID will easily collide within the BIER domain advertising the BGP info @ = the edge. [Xiaohu] Thanks for point it out. Will fix it in the next version. The BSL TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD3 Length:4 Value: contains a one-octet BSL which indicates the length of the Bitstring in 4-octets. Is this encoded equivalent to MPLS draft ? Indicate so and indicate WHICH b= its are used and which are reserved. If not, indicate how e.g. 33 as bitst= ring length should be treated if e.g. the ensuing encaps cannot deal with i= t ? [Xiaohu] IMHO, it'd better to specify the legal BSL values in the BIER arch= draft which should be independent of specific BIER encapsulations. The BIER MPLS Encapsualtion TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD4 Length:7 Value: contains a one-octet Label Range Size field indicating the size of the label range, and a 3-octect Label Rang Base field where the 20 rightmost bits represent the first label in the label range. indicate that the other bits are reserved/must be ignored/send 0 Generally, it is considered de rigeur to make nice pictures of those TLVs t= o make the documents more readable. I suggest doing so. [Xiaohu] Thanks for the above suggestions. Will fix them in the next versio= n. Another question here is what happens when multiple eBPG edges of an AD adv= ertise this attribute. Is the preference driven by MED [or another attribut= e?] based e.g. on the IGP distance within AD to the BFR ? [Xiaohu] I think so. Is the expectation that each BGP router advertising this is BFR itself ? Or= has capabilities to unicast tunnel into the BIER domain ? [Xiaohu]Since the BIER attribute is an optional, transitive BGP path attrib= ute, it should support the scenario where a BGP speaker is allowed to tunne= l a BIER packet or the payload of a BIER packet to the BFER directly if the= BGP next-hop is a non-BFR. Furthermore, it should support as well the scen= ario where a BGP speaker is allowed to tunnel a BIER packet to the BGP next= -hop if these two BGP peers are not directly connected (e.g., multi-hop EBG= P) . Overall, this seems to imply somewhat that BIER domain is aligned with the = whole IGP domain (and not areas) and e.g. two OSPF areas cannot be two BIER= domains. This is an interesting architectural question that wasn't brough= t up yet ? [Xiaohu] In this doc, it's assumed that a BIER domain is aligned with the w= hole network consist of multiple ASes. Best regards, Xiaohu thanks --- tony > -----Original Message----- > From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 5:31 PM > To: bier@ietf.org; idr wg > Subject: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extens= ions- > 00.txt > > Hi all, > > Any comments are welcome. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto= :internet-drafts@ietf.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:26 AM > > To: Mach Chen; Xuxiaohu; Xuxiaohu; IJsbrand Wijnands; Keyur Patel; > > Keyur Patel; IJsbrand Wijnands; Mach Chen > > Subject: New Version Notification for > > draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Xiaohu Xu and posted to the IETF > repository. > > > > Name: draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions > > Revision: 00 > > Title: BGP Extensions for BIER > > Document date: 2015-02-16 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 7 > > URL: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-bier-exte= nsions/ > > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions= -00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is a new multicast forwarding > > architecture which doesn't require an explicit tree-building protoco= l > > and doesn't require intermediate routers to maintain any multicast > > state. BIER is applicable in a multi-tenant data center network > > envioronment for efficient delivery of Broadcast, Unknown-unicast an= d > > Multicast (BUM) traffic while eliminating the need for maitaining a > > huge amount of multicast state in an underlay. This document > > describes BGP extensions for advertising the BIER-specific > > information. These extesnions are applicable in those multi-tenant > > data centers where BGP instead of IGP is deployed as an underlay for > > network reachability advertisement. These extensions may also be > > applicable in other scenarios. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.i= etf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8NKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks a lot for your valuable comments and suggestion. Please se= e my response inline.

 

From: Antoni Przygienda [mailto:antoni.przygienda@ericsson.= com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:07 AM
To: Xuxiaohu; bier@ietf.org; idr wg
Subject: RE: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bi= er-extensions-00.txt

 

<hat type=3D”indivi= dual cat contributor”>

<= o:p> 

Xuxiaohu, thanks for the wor= k.

<= o:p> 

multiple things:<= /span>

<= o:p> 

  The BFR-ID TLV is encoded = as follows:

 =

      Ty= pe:TBD2

 =

      Le= ngth:5

 =

      Va= lue: contains a two-octet BFR-ID.

<= o:p> 

I am missing here the indica= tion of subdomain-id since without that, the BFR-ID will easily collide wit= hin the BIER domain advertising the BGP info @ the edge.

 

[Xiaohu] Thanks for point it out. Will fix it in the next vers= ion.

 

<= o:p> 

The BSL TLV is encoded as foll= ows:

 

     = Type:TBD3

 

     = Length:4

 

     = Value: contains a one-octet BSL which indicates the length of the

     = Bitstring in 4-octets.

<= o:p> 

Is this encoded equivalent t= o MPLS draft ? Indicate so and indicate WHICH bits are used and which are r= eserved. If not, indicate how e.g.  33 as bitstring length should be t= reated if e.g. the ensuing encaps cannot deal with it ?

 

[Xiaohu] IMHO, it’d better to specify the legal BSL valu= es in the BIER arch draft which should be independent of specific BIER enca= psulations.

 

   The BIER MPLS Enc= apsualtion TLV is encoded as follows:

 

     = Type:TBD4

 

     = Length:7

 

     = Value: contains a one-octet Label Range Size field indicating the

     = size of the label range, and a 3-octect Label Rang Base field

     = where the 20 rightmost bits represent the first label in the label

     = range.

<= o:p> 

indicate that the other bits= are reserved/must be ignored/send 0

<= o:p> 

Generally, it is considered = de rigeur to make nice pictures of those TLVs to make the documents more re= adable. I suggest doing so.

 

[Xiaohu] Thanks for the above suggestions. Will fix them in th= e next version.

<= o:p> 

Another question here is wha= t happens when multiple eBPG edges of an AD advertise this attribute. Is th= e preference driven by MED [or another attribute?] based e.g. on the IGP di= stance within AD to the BFR ?

 

[Xiaohu] I think so.

<= o:p> 

Is the expectation that each= BGP router advertising this is BFR itself ? Or has capabilities to unicast= tunnel into the BIER domain ?

 

[Xiaohu]Since the BIER attribute is an optional, transitive BG= P path attribute, it should support the scenario where a BGP speaker is all= owed to tunnel a BIER packet or the payload of a BIER packet to the BFER directly if the BGP next-hop is a non-BFR. Fu= rthermore, it should support as well the scenario where a BGP speaker is al= lowed to tunnel a BIER packet to the BGP next-hop if these two BGP peers ar= e not directly connected (e.g., multi-hop EBGP) .

<= o:p> 

Overall, this seems to imply= somewhat that BIER domain is aligned with the whole IGP domain (and not ar= eas) and e.g. two OSPF areas cannot be two BIER domains.  This is an i= nteresting architectural question that wasn’t brought up yet ?

 

[Xiaohu] In this doc, it’s assumed that a BIER domain is= aligned with the whole network consist of multiple ASes.

Best regards,

Xiaohu

<= o:p> 

</hat>

<= o:p> 

thanks

<= o:p> 

--- tony <= /p>

<= o:p> 

> -----Original Message--= ---

> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O= f Xuxiaohu

> Sent: Monday, February = 16, 2015 5:31 PM

> To: bier@ietf.org; idr wg

> Subject: [Bier] FW: New= Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-

> 00.txt

>

> Hi all,

>

> Any comments are welcom= e.

>

> Best regards,

> Xiaohu

>

> > -----Original Mess= age-----

> > From: internet-drafts@ietf.= org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]

> > Sent: Tuesday, Feb= ruary 17, 2015 9:26 AM

> > To: Mach Chen; Xux= iaohu; Xuxiaohu; IJsbrand Wijnands; Keyur Patel;

> > Keyur Patel; IJsbr= and Wijnands; Mach Chen

> > Subject: New Versi= on Notification for

> > draft-xu-idr-bier-= extensions-00.txt

> ><= /p>

> ><= /p>

> > A new version of I= -D, draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt

> > has been successfu= lly submitted by Xiaohu Xu and posted to the IETF

> repository.<= /span>

> ><= /p>

> > Name:  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           draft-xu-idr= -bier-extensions

> > Revision: &nb= sp;     00

> > Title:  =             &nb= sp;            =   BGP Extensions for BIER

> > Document date:&nbs= p;        2015-02-16

> > Group:  =             &nb= sp;           Individual = Submission

> > Pages:  =             &nb= sp;            7

> > URL:

> > http://www.ietf.org/i= nternet-drafts/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt

> > Status:  = ;       https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions/

> > Htmlized: &nb= sp;     http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00

> ><= /p>

> ><= /p>

> > Abstract:

> >    = Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is a new multicast forwarding

> >    = architecture which doesn't require an explicit tree-building protocol<= /o:p>

> >    = and doesn't require intermediate routers to maintain any multicast

> >    = state.  BIER is applicable in a multi-tenant data center network<= /o:p>

> >    = envioronment for efficient delivery of Broadcast, Unknown-unicast and<= /o:p>

> >    = Multicast (BUM) traffic while eliminating the need for maitaining a

> >    = huge amount of multicast state in an underlay.  This document

> >    = describes BGP extensions for advertising the BIER-specific

> >    = information.  These extesnions are applicable in those multi-tenant

> >    = data centers where BGP instead of IGP is deployed as an underlay for

> >    = network reachability advertisement.  These extensions may also be=

> >    = applicable in other scenarios.

> ><= /p>

> ><= /p>

> ><= /p>

> ><= /p>

> > Please note that i= t may take a couple of minutes from the time of

> > submission until t= he htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

> ><= /p>

> > The IETF Secretari= at

>

> _______________________= ________________________

> BIER mailing list<= /o:p>

> BIER@ietf.o= rg

> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/bier

--_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8NKGEML512MBSchi_-- From nobody Mon Feb 16 19:24:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7AC11A00FE; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:24:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UfaPwSowm5ev; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:24:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88CC21A0162; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:24:36 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79376d000000ceb-df-54e26089acb2 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 7E.F0.03307.98062E45; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:26:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 22:24:33 -0500 From: Antoni Przygienda To: Xuxiaohu , "bier@ietf.org" , idr wg Thread-Topic: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQSlCq3k5gpZgciU2QvKfhI3xxk5z0DcqggAADj/CAAGvqAP//ru+g Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 03:24:32 +0000 Message-ID: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C259@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083097F5@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083098C8@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C259eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn25XwqMQg+ULuS2WztjDZPHq9jMm i63nVzE6MHu0HHnL6rFkyU+mAKYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErowjkz6wF0w4w1hxcLtPA+P7rYxd jBwcEgImErv2JXQxcgKZYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMIo8fhYFzOEs5xRYtnMrWwgVWwCFhKXvz1l BmkWEYiR+DiRCyQsLBAlcfz4T0YQW0QgWmLV281QtptEX/tudhCbRUBVYuW3drAxvALeEt++ 3mQBsYUEHjNKfJliDWJzCoRJLPjxhAnEZgQ66PupNWA2s4C4xK0n85kgDhWQWLLnPDOELSrx 8vE/VghbSWLS0nOsEPX5EhOX/2SF2CUocXLmE5YJjCKzkIyahaRsFpIyiLiOxILdn9ggbG2J ZQtfM8PYZw48ZkIWX8DIvoqRo7Q4tSw33chgEyMwjo5JsOnuYNzz0vIQowAHoxIPr4HdoxAh 1sSy4srcQ4zSHCxK4ryLHhwMERJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp1cC4I0yjLs+jKWnB Stf6XSqxd/6bTT3a+Xld2y/3cy8OCSx8v89vy/OGu+fnLbR94uPKmq/+zUBsgp+y/9Y0nqRi K71G6dMXdDImfqn9Pl3AMcH2gSz3RItOn3f7dpq/Lt0bvNyGyXzb3dNSalUvT25P//9O5Umv XsC+WMemIlv1Z89Lfwkt7lusxFKckWioxVxUnAgA01GCXYQCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 03:24:39 -0000 --_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C259eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Length:5 Value: contains a two-octet BFR-ID. I am missing here the indication of subdomain-id since without that, the BF= R-ID will easily collide within the BIER domain advertising the BGP info @ = the edge. [Xiaohu] Thanks for point it out. Will fix it in the next version. [Tony said] ack The BSL TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD3 Length:4 Value: contains a one-octet BSL which indicates the length of the Bitstring in 4-octets. Is this encoded equivalent to MPLS draft ? Indicate so and indicate WHICH b= its are used and which are reserved. If not, indicate how e.g. 33 as bitst= ring length should be treated if e.g. the ensuing encaps cannot deal with i= t ? [Xiaohu] IMHO, it'd better to specify the legal BSL values in the BIER arch= draft which should be independent of specific BIER encapsulations. [Tony said] agreed, that's a heads-up for Ice to put it into the architect= ure draft me thinks. It's hanging in the MPLS draft right now. Given how wi= dely it's referenced, it should be moved up me thinks. The BIER MPLS Encapsualtion TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD4 Length:7 Value: contains a one-octet Label Range Size field indicating the size of the label range, and a 3-octect Label Rang Base field where the 20 rightmost bits represent the first label in the label range. indicate that the other bits are reserved/must be ignored/send 0 Generally, it is considered de rigeur to make nice pictures of those TLVs t= o make the documents more readable. I suggest doing so. [Xiaohu] Thanks for the above suggestions. Will fix them in the next versio= n. [Tony said] ack Another question here is what happens when multiple eBPG edges of an AD adv= ertise this attribute. Is the preference driven by MED [or another attribut= e?] based e.g. on the IGP distance within AD to the BFR ? [Xiaohu] I think so. [Tony said] ack, I suggest to put it into lead-in section (Special consider= ations, requireements, assumptions, something ?) Is the expectation that each BGP router advertising this is BFR itself ? Or= has capabilities to unicast tunnel into the BIER domain ? [Xiaohu]Since the BIER attribute is an optional, transitive BGP path attrib= ute, it should support the scenario where a BGP speaker is allowed to tunne= l a BIER packet or the payload of a BIER packet to the BFER directly if the= BGP next-hop is a non-BFR. Furthermore, it should support as well the scen= ario where a BGP speaker is allowed to tunnel a BIER packet to the BGP next= -hop if these two BGP peers are not directly connected (e.g., multi-hop EBG= P) . [Tony said] [Tony said] Yes, I suggest a small section stating this and exp= laining this. Overall, this seems to imply somewhat that BIER domain is aligned with the = whole IGP domain (and not areas) and e.g. two OSPF areas cannot be two BIER= domains. This is an interesting architectural question that wasn't brough= t up yet ? [Xiaohu] In this doc, it's assumed that a BIER domain is aligned with the w= hole network consist of multiple ASes. [Tony said] Let's spell it out and have a discussion @ next BOF/WG [whateve= r we become when we've grown up to have a charter ;-) ] I think it will be= a very relevant architectural decision at this point in time and possibly = influence all IGP drafts. What speaks against BIER domain aligned with AD i= s scalabilty, what speaks for it is simplicity. --- tony --_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C259eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

      Length:5

 

      Value: cont= ains a two-octet BFR-ID.

 

I am missing here the indicati= on of subdomain-id since without that, the BFR-ID will easily collide withi= n the BIER domain advertising the BGP info @ the edge.

 

[Xiaohu] Thanks for point it out. Will fix it in the next version.

 <= /i>

[Tony said] ack=

 

The BSL TLV is encoded as follows:

 

      Type:TBD= 3

 

      Length:4=

 

      Value: c= ontains a one-octet BSL which indicates the length of the=

      Bitstrin= g in 4-octets.

 

Is this encoded equivalent to = MPLS draft ? Indicate so and indicate WHICH bits are used and which are res= erved. If not, indicate how e.g.  33 as bitstring length should be treated if e.g. the ensuing encaps cannot deal = with it ?

 

[Xiaohu] IMHO, it’d better to specify the legal BSL values in the B= IER arch draft which should be independent of specific BIER encapsulations.

 <= /i>

[Tony said]  agreed, that’s a= heads-up for Ice to put it into the architecture draft me thinks. It’s hanging in the MPLS draft right now. Given how widel= y it’s referenced, it should be moved up me thinks.

 

   The BIER MPLS Encapsualtio= n TLV is encoded as follows:

 

      Type:TBD= 4

 

      Length:7=

 

      Value: c= ontains a one-octet Label Range Size field indicating the=

      size of = the label range, and a 3-octect Label Rang Base field

      where th= e 20 rightmost bits represent the first label in the label

      range.

 

indicate that the other bits a= re reserved/must be ignored/send 0

 

Generally, it is considered de= rigeur to make nice pictures of those TLVs to make the documents more read= able. I suggest doing so.

 

[Xiaohu] Thanks for the above suggestions. Will fix them in the next vers= ion.

 <= /i>

[Tony said] ack=

 

Another question here is what = happens when multiple eBPG edges of an AD advertise this attribute. Is the = preference driven by MED [or another attribute?] based e.g. on the IGP distance within AD to the BFR ?

 

[Xiaohu] I think so.

 <= /i>

[Tony said] ack, I suggest to put it int= o lead-in section (Special considerations, requireements, assumptions, something ?)

 

Is the expectation that each B= GP router advertising this is BFR itself ? Or has capabilities to unicast t= unnel into the BIER domain ?

 

[Xiaohu]Since the BIER attribute is an optional, transitive BGP path attr= ibute, it should support the scenario where a BGP speaker is allowed to tunnel a BIER packet or the payload of a BIER = packet to the BFER directly if the BGP next-hop is a non-BFR. Furthermore, = it should support as well the scenario where a BGP speaker is allowed to tu= nnel a BIER packet to the BGP next-hop if these two BGP peers are not directly connected (e.g., multi-hop EBGP) .=

 

[Tony said] [Tony said] Ye= s, I suggest a small section stating this and explaining this.

 

Overall, this seems to imply s= omewhat that BIER domain is aligned with the whole IGP domain (and not area= s) and e.g. two OSPF areas cannot be two BIER domains.  This is an interesting architectural question that was= n’t brought up yet ?

 <= /i>

 

[Xiaohu] In this doc, it’s assumed t= hat a BIER domain is aligned with the whole network consist of multiple ASes.

[Tony s= aid] Let’s spell it out and have a discussion @ next BOF/WG [whatever we become when we’ve grown up to have a char= ter ;-) ]  I think it will be a very relevant architectural decision a= t this point in time and possibly influence all IGP drafts. What speaks aga= inst BIER domain aligned with AD is scalabilty, what speaks for it is simplicity.

--- tony

 

--_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C259eusaamb103ericsso_-- From nobody Tue Feb 17 18:15:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E9A1A9172; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UatoeGOxoDTv; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-f42.google.com (mail-la0-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D42C1A9177; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by lams18 with SMTP id s18so39466300lam.11; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WDd3acZFw7oP3/uVjdQlIRP8/Tc6jxqFFjwz0vBZh70=; b=ooB2kY7b2ZPvw1Gb7OtuaVXVVL3SQEmj7ziJXT63F1wI0wp9CPWhMtbaYKzao4qL89 DsjrXHo6ZdrHIIBul+AxXjyGO/6Fo5P+NizqhpeFnXUZXwmIFN8opX3qHEX5ILZRzDX8 RjNx8L82ImBx7vILlnqz3o9qjNFLqsC1zL1Snt1Cds78dxSfbZFOI7z3GvItqFUNqIE5 77X9oSBmiihw4bicI0HsLgvrxtof4HK1XZ2jsUI+0jMbz+x5gnmILngX8OzCjWdczBPD 1wb25S/FEXgcG+nfiMpSm1Y00RlBSJJnSBZVAC5GCWbBK3yWnudFVjl2dizwWYbXFtRF hqKw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.5.101 with SMTP id r5mr31787760lar.33.1424225706683; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.152.127.165 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:15:06 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: RaalncralQ0-OSpg8YYQ8OjJaKA Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Kathleen Moriarty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: Cc: Chris Morrow , idr@ietf.org, The IESG , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:15:27 -0000 > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? "Nota bene", note well. I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, "Note:" would work fine. Barry From nobody Tue Feb 17 18:15:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 21B4F1A9175; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E9A1A9172; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UatoeGOxoDTv; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-f42.google.com (mail-la0-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D42C1A9177; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by lams18 with SMTP id s18so39466300lam.11; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WDd3acZFw7oP3/uVjdQlIRP8/Tc6jxqFFjwz0vBZh70=; b=ooB2kY7b2ZPvw1Gb7OtuaVXVVL3SQEmj7ziJXT63F1wI0wp9CPWhMtbaYKzao4qL89 DsjrXHo6ZdrHIIBul+AxXjyGO/6Fo5P+NizqhpeFnXUZXwmIFN8opX3qHEX5ILZRzDX8 RjNx8L82ImBx7vILlnqz3o9qjNFLqsC1zL1Snt1Cds78dxSfbZFOI7z3GvItqFUNqIE5 77X9oSBmiihw4bicI0HsLgvrxtof4HK1XZ2jsUI+0jMbz+x5gnmILngX8OzCjWdczBPD 1wb25S/FEXgcG+nfiMpSm1Y00RlBSJJnSBZVAC5GCWbBK3yWnudFVjl2dizwWYbXFtRF hqKw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.5.101 with SMTP id r5mr31787760lar.33.1424225706683; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.152.127.165 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:15:06 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: RaalncralQ0-OSpg8YYQ8OjJaKA Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Kathleen Moriarty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: Cc: Chris Morrow , idr@ietf.org, The IESG , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:15:27 -0000 > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? "Nota bene", note well. I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, "Note:" would work fine. Barry From nobody Tue Feb 17 18:44:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196A31A702B; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5axYv5-72C-Z; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8977E1A0469; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:27 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Barry Leiba'" , "'Kathleen Moriarty'" References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:44:17 -0500 Message-ID: <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH+Gk6r3BA3W62lprKyHr4F+UqZdQKY0n/rnIVN7cA= Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Chris Morrow' , idr@ietf.org, 'The IESG' , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:44:29 -0000 Barry and Kathleen: I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd. Authors will respond - but Note or Note Well: Will work with IDR chair. Sue -----Original Message----- From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM To: Kathleen Moriarty Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? "Nota bene", note well. I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, "Note:" would work fine. Barry From nobody Tue Feb 17 18:44:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 333431A913A; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196A31A702B; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5axYv5-72C-Z; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8977E1A0469; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:44:27 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Barry Leiba'" , "'Kathleen Moriarty'" References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:44:17 -0500 Message-ID: <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH+Gk6r3BA3W62lprKyHr4F+UqZdQKY0n/rnIVN7cA= Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Chris Morrow' , idr@ietf.org, 'The IESG' , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:44:29 -0000 Barry and Kathleen: I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd. Authors will respond - but Note or Note Well: Will work with IDR chair. Sue -----Original Message----- From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM To: Kathleen Moriarty Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? "Nota bene", note well. I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, "Note:" would work fine. Barry From nobody Wed Feb 18 08:42:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7811A8A61; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.155 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.155 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XngQMMqlBPBB; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B401A8A4C; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:04 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Kathleen Moriarty'" References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:41:58 -0500 Message-ID: <00e601d04b99$d082fff0$7188ffd0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQH+Gk6r3BA3W62lprKyHr4F+UqZdQKY0n/rAfSI9VUB558cA5xnVwTA X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, 'Chris Morrow' , 'The IESG' , 'Barry Leiba' Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:42:06 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kathleen: =20 It is best if the authors change it. If you tripped over it =E2=80=93 = other people will as well. =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:12 PM To: Susan Hares Cc: Barry Leiba; The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares wrote: Barry and Kathleen: I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd. = Authors will respond - but Note or Note Well: Will work with IDR chair. =20 It's fine to leave it. =20 =20 Thanks. Kathleen=20 Sue -----Original Message----- From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of = Barry Leiba Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM To: Kathleen Moriarty Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? "Nota bene", note well. I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, "Note:" would work fine. Barry =20 --=20 =20 Best regards, Kathleen ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kathleen:

 

It is best if the authors change it.=C2=A0 If you tripped over it = =E2=80=93 other people will as well.

 

Sue

 

From:= = Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com] =
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:12 PM
To: Susan = Hares
Cc: Barry Leiba; The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; = idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No = Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with = COMMENT)

 

 

 

On Tue, = Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

Barry and Kathleen:

I use the Latin phrases = such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd.  Authors
will respond = - but
Note or Note Well:  Will work with IDR = chair.

 

It's fine to leave it. =  

 

Thanks.

Kathleen 


Sue


-----Original Message-----
From: = barryleiba@gmail.com = [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf = Of Barry
Leiba
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM
To: = Kathleen Moriarty
Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org;
draft-ietf-idr-a= s-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection = on
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT)

> Section = 4.1. what is "NB:"?

"Nota bene", note = well.

I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations = (including "i.e."
and "e.g."), and I always = suggest that we not use them.  But in the
end, it's up to the = authors (and the RFC Editor).  In this case,
"Note:" = would work = fine.

Barry



 

-- =

 

Best = regards,

Kathleen

------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 08:42:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 74E501A8A4C; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7811A8A61; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.155 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.155 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XngQMMqlBPBB; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B401A8A4C; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:42:04 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Kathleen Moriarty'" References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:41:58 -0500 Message-ID: <00e601d04b99$d082fff0$7188ffd0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQH+Gk6r3BA3W62lprKyHr4F+UqZdQKY0n/rAfSI9VUB558cA5xnVwTA X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, 'Chris Morrow' , 'The IESG' , 'Barry Leiba' Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:42:06 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kathleen: =20 It is best if the authors change it. If you tripped over it =E2=80=93 = other people will as well. =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:12 PM To: Susan Hares Cc: Barry Leiba; The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares wrote: Barry and Kathleen: I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd. = Authors will respond - but Note or Note Well: Will work with IDR chair. =20 It's fine to leave it. =20 =20 Thanks. Kathleen=20 Sue -----Original Message----- From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of = Barry Leiba Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM To: Kathleen Moriarty Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? "Nota bene", note well. I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, "Note:" would work fine. Barry =20 --=20 =20 Best regards, Kathleen ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kathleen:

 

It is best if the authors change it.=C2=A0 If you tripped over it = =E2=80=93 other people will as well.

 

Sue

 

From:= = Kathleen Moriarty [mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com] =
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:12 PM
To: Susan = Hares
Cc: Barry Leiba; The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; = idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No = Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with = COMMENT)

 

 

 

On Tue, = Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

Barry and Kathleen:

I use the Latin phrases = such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd.  Authors
will respond = - but
Note or Note Well:  Will work with IDR = chair.

 

It's fine to leave it. =  

 

Thanks.

Kathleen 


Sue


-----Original Message-----
From: = barryleiba@gmail.com = [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf = Of Barry
Leiba
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM
To: = Kathleen Moriarty
Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org;
draft-ietf-idr-a= s-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection = on
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT)

> Section = 4.1. what is "NB:"?

"Nota bene", note = well.

I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations = (including "i.e."
and "e.g."), and I always = suggest that we not use them.  But in the
end, it's up to the = authors (and the RFC Editor).  In this case,
"Note:" = would work = fine.

Barry



 

-- =

 

Best = regards,

Kathleen

------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D04B6F.E7ADE250-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 09:51:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CD81A8AF8 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:51:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hi5LnBeq_DSl for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5704D1A8AEE for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:51:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=621; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424281905; x=1425491505; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=VaEphkqi2v800QvCuxURf5h4ZJWj31K6EBjmLSWUXV4=; b=RMu0FupnV2vcjweB2fUdnDTQRpsv6Q0OoaTm6P4yz3RhQfqYCfbmPavG z5W16/4GBZfxBkNBSV+A8dnuhJAhorq2xifAnPUyw2kQDKBqdSxzCwID4 X76n2vaN5pdcXLJv/MXGYCOABZ8cFvVP3wV6nxx8tM8aSnpJlBM0BXsHC U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BZBQBf0ORU/5pdJa1bgwZSWgTCXIVvAoEeQwEBAQEBAXyEDAEBAQMBeQwEAgEIEQMBAi8yHQgCBA4FiCcIDdMfAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARUEiw+EDBEBUAcGhCQFihSFL4NZhWOKZogsIoNub4ELOX8BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,603,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="394076458" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2015 17:51:45 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1IHphBa027707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:51:43 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.6.40]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:51:43 -0600 From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd and idr-bgp-bestpath-selection ?? Thread-Index: AQHQRhF9JbBHat6UqEKWqILBy1KDi5zsyBcAgAoDlYA= Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:51:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [10.82.248.7] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <9FA147F2EC494C418ED42D596EE12476@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd and idr-bgp-bestpath-selection ?? X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:51:46 -0000 Yup. Just responded to Jeff=B9s email. --=20 Cheers, Rajiv=20 -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 10:56 PM To: Rajiv Asati Cc: "idr@ietf.org" Subject: Re: draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd and idr-bgp-bestpath-selection ?? >> Does draft-ymbk-idr-rs-bfd benefit from best path selection criteria >> enhancement (wrt NH resolvability) described here? >>=20 >>=20 >>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteri >>a-06 > >perhaps you could describe how it might benefit? > >randy From nobody Wed Feb 18 13:52:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04E41A1B0E; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:52:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwQZOHn4ZE7z; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD691A1B0D; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:51:59 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Alissa Cooper'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJVefqstoO5why0GAzXAZ7/XyJMh5vshgoQ X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:52:03 -0000 Alissa:=20 Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this section? = Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of business that = can happen? This specification is documenting what exists in real = networks with real costs.=20 What causes you to hold your nose? =20 Sue=20 -------- The text: below:=20 "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on = measured utilization of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a = slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can happen? = What causes you to hold your nose?=20 These =20 -----Original Message----- From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM To: The IESG Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = (with COMMENT) Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 9: "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a = slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. From nobody Wed Feb 18 13:52:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id CD2491A1B4B; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:52:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04E41A1B0E; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:52:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwQZOHn4ZE7z; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD691A1B0D; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:51:59 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Alissa Cooper'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJVefqstoO5why0GAzXAZ7/XyJMh5vshgoQ X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 21:52:04 -0000 Alissa:=20 Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this section? = Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of business that = can happen? This specification is documenting what exists in real = networks with real costs.=20 What causes you to hold your nose? =20 Sue=20 -------- The text: below:=20 "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on = measured utilization of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a = slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can happen? = What causes you to hold your nose?=20 These =20 -----Original Message----- From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM To: The IESG Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = (with COMMENT) Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 9: "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a = slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. From nobody Wed Feb 18 14:35:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFC21A0102 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:35:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9pBjiAwB2bo for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x230.google.com (mail-ob0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E48E11A1B59 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id wo20so7989978obc.7 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=uBkxJdBfUqRE2FX8/YWmzOfyUMFZBIpnfdri8jFt2AI=; b=Rd+7yugKeGRo8P+kic4DUdqqESn2/8VuO76efXr/pNeSczIJAiHEA6cQbjNYWstoNg rCXEPT+D1jaSPl+hNb/64sQFlDLo9nA8jXwsgXTfGIaFal1Jd5Q0F43kwR5JTYrbryM2 ETbcKwBiD3ecxKRcnpsqVCEW26jcf+LRniZbtshDA0NxdIZSZ6DqqtRbXEGmvTNWXSAo 3weVFdYxShL/i61L9jK1MglkX7svJ3E0WuqcabZ2wpL9IFKv1sdLjZJreQXZwVc8MUlh 438iMZkem0zXhFxJmh39aaR011pSlqASMsiPWCWcANCwoDP5CC9M8lkJc98XWCOeyS2Y Eu2g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.81.138 with SMTP id a10mr373757oby.57.1424298945264; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.94.20 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:35:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: "George, Wes" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e477aafc017050f6470c8 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] AD review and progression of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:35:48 -0000 --047d7b2e477aafc017050f6470c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wes, On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:06 PM, George, Wes wrote: > Alia =E2=80=93 ack and thank you for the review. Since your comments are= more > minor on this draft than the SIDR one, I will wait to make those changes > when I incorporate any other IETF last call comments. > > re: "existing BGP security mechanisms" - I want to make sure that I'm > including the specific things you had in mind. Are we just talking about > BGP session authentication and/or GTSM, or is there something else that I= 'm > forgetting? > Just those. An updated version also addressing IESG comments would be good. > Thanks, > > > > Wes > > > > > From: Alia Atlas > Date: Friday, January 30, 2015 at 2:46 PM > To: "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration@tools.ietf.org" < > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration@tools.ietf.org> > Cc: Idr > Subject: AD review and progression of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 > Resent-To: , "George, Wes" > > I have done my standard AD review of this useful and clear draft. > > First, I would recommend strengthening the security considerations > with a reference to the existing BGP security mechanisms. > > Second, based on a reading of RFC 3967 and how this draft uses the AS > numbers for an example, I believe that the reference should be informativ= e. > > Please handle these issues during IETF Last Call. > > I'm putting this into IETF Last Call and on the IESG telechat for Feb 19= . > > Thanks for the good work! > Alia > > ------------------------------ > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to > copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely > for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you > are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified th= at > any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to > the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and > may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify > the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy o= f > this E-mail and any printout. > --047d7b2e477aafc017050f6470c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Wes,

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:06 PM, George, Wes &l= t;wesley.geo= rge@twcable.com> wrote:
Alia =E2=80=93 ack and thank you for the review. Since your comments a= re more minor on this draft than the SIDR one, I will wait to make those ch= anges when I incorporate any other IETF last call comments.=C2=A0

re: "existing BGP security mechanisms" - I want to make sure= that I'm including the specific things you had in mind. Are we just ta= lking about BGP session authentication and/or GTSM, or is there something e= lse that I'm forgetting?
=C2=A0
Just those.
An updated version also addressing IESG comment= s would be good.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

Tha= nks,

= =C2=A0

Wes=

= =C2=A0

From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 30, 2015 at 2= :46 PM
To: "draft-ietf-idr-as-mi= gration@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-as-migration@tools= .ietf.org>
Cc: Idr <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: AD review and progression = of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03
Resent-To: <samante@apple.com>, "George,= Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>

I have done my standard AD review of this useful and clear= draft.

First, I would recommend strengthening the security considerations
with a reference to the existing BGP security mechanisms.

Second, based on a reading of RFC 3967 and how this draft uses the AS<= /div>
numbers for an example, I believe that the reference should be informa= tive.

Please handle these issues during IETF Last Call.

I'm putting this into IETF Last Call and on the IESG telechat for = Feb 19.

Thanks for the good work!
Alia

This E-mail and any of its a= ttachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is = privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner = Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you a= re not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that = any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to th= e contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have receiv= ed this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanent= ly delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.

--047d7b2e477aafc017050f6470c8-- From petr.marciniak@de-cix.net Mon Feb 16 01:41:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D3761A879E for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 01:41:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYqHMKIV4Lim for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 01:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from de-cix.net (relay3.de-cix.net [IPv6:2a02:c50:0:1e::3:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 552481A879A for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 01:41:11 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.09,586,1418079600"; d="p7s'?scan'208"; a="1559667" Received: from ms-exchange.de-cix.net ([192.168.67.12]) by mailgw011.de-cix.net with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 16 Feb 2015 10:41:09 +0100 Received: from MS-Exchange.de-cix.net ([fe80::250:56ff:fe9e:3eea]) by MS-Exchange.de-cix.net ([fe80::250:56ff:fe9e:3eea%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:41:13 +0100 From: Petr Marciniak To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server Thread-Index: AQHQScyyMn1euSUH7UauvrFaXK3Nzw== Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 09:41:12 +0000 Message-ID: <8F05A1F8-B09F-4DCE-9527-57FA30CF4A6B@de-cix.net> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.140.82] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EBA0A907-42F5-43DA-9566-D276038B9C01"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 09:45:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EBA0A907-42F5-43DA-9566-D276038B9C01 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Chairs and WG, we at DE-CIX operate one of the biggest Internet exchange points (IPXs) = in the world: DE-CIX Frankfurt. At our six different IXPs we highly rely on route = servers. So, we have strong experience with bird and quagga and can confirm that the = implementation report is correct. As IETF builds on persons not companies: I strongly support publication = of draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server Best regards, Petr =E2=80=94=20 Petr Marciniak Systems Engineer DE-CIX Management GmbH | Lindleystra=C3=9Fe 12 | 60314 Frankfurt am Main = | Germany | www.de-cix.net Phone +49 69 1730902 68 | Mobile +49 151 51817613 | Fax +49 69 4056 2716 = | petr.marciniak@de-cix.net Geschaeftsfuehrer Harald A. Summa | Registergericht AG Koeln HRB 51135 --Apple-Mail=_EBA0A907-42F5-43DA-9566-D276038B9C01 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJljCCBBYw ggL+oAMCAQICCwQAAAAAAS9O4S9SMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMFcxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkJFMRkwFwYD VQQKExBHbG9iYWxTaWduIG52LXNhMRAwDgYDVQQLEwdSb290IENBMRswGQYDVQQDExJHbG9iYWxT aWduIFJvb3QgQ0EwHhcNMTEwNDEzMTAwMDAwWhcNMTkwNDEzMTAwMDAwWjBUMQswCQYDVQQGEwJC RTEZMBcGA1UEChMQR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBudi1zYTEqMCgGA1UEAxMhR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBQZXJzb25h bFNpZ24gMiBDQSAtIEcyMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAwWtB+TXs+BJ9 3SJRaV+3uRNGJ3cUO+MTgW8+5HQXfgy19CzkDI1T1NwwICi/bo4R/mYR5FEWx91//eE0ElC/89iY 7GkL0tDasmVx4TOXnrqrsziUcxEPPqHRE8x4NhtBK7+8o0nsMIJMA1gyZ2FA5To2Ew1BBuvovvDJ +Nua3qOCNBNu+8A+eNpJlVnlu/qB7+XWaPXtUMlsIikxD+gREFVUgYE4VzBuLa2kkg0VLd09XkE2 ceRDm6YgRATuDk6ogUyX4OLxCGIJF8yi6Z37M0wemDA6Uff0EuqdwDQd5HwG/rernUjt1grLdAxq 8BwywRRg0eFHmE+ShhpyO3Fi+wIDAQABo4HlMIHiMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjASBgNVHRMBAf8E CDAGAQH/AgEAMB0GA1UdDgQWBBQ/FdJtfC/nMZ5DCgaolGwsO8XuZTBHBgNVHSAEQDA+MDwGBFUd IAAwNDAyBggrBgEFBQcCARYmaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9yeS8w MwYDVR0fBCwwKjAooCagJIYiaHR0cDovL2NybC5nbG9iYWxzaWduLm5ldC9yb290LmNybDAfBgNV HSMEGDAWgBRge2YaRQ2XyolQL30EzTSo//z9SzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEAQ3N5zKTMSTED HGFAgd/gu91Kb8AxPHgjq+7dhf7mkCinMqqrLai2XOrz8CP63BPaAx7oGOUBI0MyASBGk5zej9L3 oHtiF2BL01m1sBnT8rQxT2CJd/+jqjUl0p2ew8T3HSyatrsooGvDwf00yCB2JHTNvtQxNO8t6x/+ 048A1Q+0i7uf0nTnyrJLjD04zhL89ytetZspltOpJVYbmwiFjq6PxsdUNthUDme/9pOLmKDnQU0p W/JEwLs2TYCBNKwdgSGAk8/z+s2SCltKIG0Uh5U6t6j7JPuwNP/znImwMrlHDJ1YpW0rkF2PGraV CgDBf9dOB+IIpnwHfIi+LD+eITCCBXgwggRgoAMCAQICEQCWaWbA3qWpL+Qmn6I76YwyMA0GCSqG SIb3DQEBBQUAMFQxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkJFMRkwFwYDVQQKExBHbG9iYWxTaWduIG52LXNhMSowKAYD VQQDEyFHbG9iYWxTaWduIFBlcnNvbmFsU2lnbiAyIENBIC0gRzIwHhcNMTMwODI5MTAzMTIwWhcN MTUwODMwMTAzMTIwWjCBxTELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxDDAKBgNVBAgTA05SVzEQMA4GA1UEBxMHQ29s b2duZTEfMB0GA1UEChMWREUtQ0lYIE1hbmFnZW1lbnQgR21iSDEcMBoGA1UECxMTU3lzdGVtcyBF bmdpbmVlcmluZzEUMBIGA1UECxMLRW5naW5lZXJpbmcxFzAVBgNVBAMTDlBldHIgTWFyY2luaWFr MSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlwZXRyLm1hcmNpbmlha0BkZS1jaXgubmV0MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAt7IqNixS9pcEj/EyelMB3yA5LJqLhWhsq8TNegQac3NV8DCHwxEv 5zbGH5AW6gFYP591ghDYZGn01BaPHandvwnjBZg+UKP6whNHuhGgT1r7dBYalBBi/G9ldY7SbSZY 1/Mk0tTVRcszX6K7J86kdqW/nim2mpFOH2wvyX2s912BYJ7IYB98zzEuf3gJu+L326PNMgkBvQX9 B9Q2ND022WKMZLTYso1YtNDEuedo6x+HAy/bobggFVWK415fxsTuGYIUH/b4H7BMRCR/kREmHxyj QRtYbt5+uhCwxyORmU5yF6y5QhUXjz1OKrFt9ARAn2PNiQGvf+hp9lSJ9/YRuwIDAQABo4IB0TCC Ac0wDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgWgME0GA1UdIARGMEQwQgYKKwYBBAGgMgEoCjA0MDIGCCsGAQUFBwIB FiZodHRwczovL3d3dy5nbG9iYWxzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5LzAkBgNVHREEHTAbgRlwZXRy Lm1hcmNpbmlha0BkZS1jaXgubmV0MAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsG AQUFBwMEMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuZ2xvYmFsc2lnbi5jb20vZ3MvZ3Nw ZXJzb25hbHNpZ24yZzIuY3JsMIGWBggrBgEFBQcBAQSBiTCBhjBJBggrBgEFBQcwAoY9aHR0cDov L3NlY3VyZS5nbG9iYWxzaWduLmNvbS9jYWNlcnQvZ3NwZXJzb25hbHNpZ24yZzJvY3NwLmNydDA5 BggrBgEFBQcwAYYtaHR0cDovL29jc3AyLmdsb2JhbHNpZ24uY29tL2dzcGVyc29uYWxzaWduMmcy MB0GA1UdDgQWBBQ9CjvPCDNwleea1eMGw9OIljAppjAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBQ/FdJtfC/nMZ5DCgao lGwsO8XuZTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEACnMZL+cmF5BN+6cfjKsuiMQG4cghNzjndOT6f9os wICwcmJ1acVN6jBMyLmVTMIZywtErlf0NniB1jHxwS2g/uWNez0ebfz8NtXeCPKUkco7ug3vgDMV VpWoGC1DtJqUKL4cIAhS9igLrnLpgFCHgNCasuny7MHkQSgXjW5vskOkIKWeu9941qm0IA57W0DZ 6mraxmtkyt7duZhUuk95rcSpGz4YBt/2rHhC9rR1YAQ8KXNP7USw6NKI5Z2xvKtUrs5O0crEDmhk pYB7yw52EjyJ/PTfOHtJinPlp6eyMkuhyr06+ewqOxR8BZ1JxVHhUd35lcwtq/v3+tcrs6TAYjGC AucwggLjAgEBMGkwVDELMAkGA1UEBhMCQkUxGTAXBgNVBAoTEEdsb2JhbFNpZ24gbnYtc2ExKjAo BgNVBAMTIUdsb2JhbFNpZ24gUGVyc29uYWxTaWduIDIgQ0EgLSBHMgIRAJZpZsDepakv5Cafojvp jDIwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAVMwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUx DxcNMTUwMjE2MDk0MTE1WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUBSi4xUGipTlu9gQ8AjRxL0x7lQwweAYJ KwYBBAGCNxAEMWswaTBUMQswCQYDVQQGEwJCRTEZMBcGA1UEChMQR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBudi1zYTEq MCgGA1UEAxMhR2xvYmFsU2lnbiBQZXJzb25hbFNpZ24gMiBDQSAtIEcyAhEAlmlmwN6lqS/kJp+i O+mMMjB6BgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzFroGkwVDELMAkGA1UEBhMCQkUxGTAXBgNVBAoTEEdsb2JhbFNp Z24gbnYtc2ExKjAoBgNVBAMTIUdsb2JhbFNpZ24gUGVyc29uYWxTaWduIDIgQ0EgLSBHMgIRAJZp ZsDepakv5CafojvpjDIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAjdn/yMUk/me6lGT7s93Z4+li+p6cUZjC T86HX3/ul/BGss3DhBlrOXtv/xUcxKy7i5wEL8p/bG4d+Epkx5vlPXaBVayV6GpaYr+ysaTnpkbi XrYsxznpsMZstuy6z0NGAIajuKCs7U862s1oYxSRYrdahpLE1x2IPASjJULYZvqBB4O4qOwrggEn H41MXtr4xKF+ULEtMkkHJEPu6tBBPq+gHRtaruFgpmKuxccReH/i/nyQimAf724SDsJR9INL7Vjn Fx9UHN+585OmQt9xDMe0tpyVI9XT6JT2ExhsmV1PgRCA06CDh0EOVKRzkFcSce9/O97duFMtjZS8 ngzDLgAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_EBA0A907-42F5-43DA-9566-D276038B9C01-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BEF1A044F for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 11:26:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYyheA_lDgjf for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 11:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01EA21A009E for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 11:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YNRJn-0001fn-HT for idr@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:26:56 +0000 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 04:26:53 +0900 Message-ID: From: Fred Important Cc: "idr@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0199D423-C24B-47E2-9C1B-1495F0F69438@de-cix.net> References: <0199D423-C24B-47E2-9C1B-1495F0F69438@de-cix.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:26:59 -0000 I run a very important Internet Exchange Point in Elbonia. I have never contributed to this WG or IETF, but I strongly support this draft. Fred From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03CE1A6F5D; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 18:06:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wEDxcUd9Lxor; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 18:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 326C31A6F3C; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 18:06:44 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-c9-54e2421f72aa Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 61.1D.25146.F1242E45; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:16:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 21:06:41 -0500 From: Antoni Przygienda To: Xuxiaohu , "bier@ietf.org" , idr wg Thread-Topic: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQSlCq3k5gpZgciU2QvKfhI3xxk5z0DcqggAADj/A= Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 02:06:41 +0000 Message-ID: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083097F5@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE083097F5@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17Beusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt66C06MQg40fuSyWztjDZPHq9jMm i63nVzE6MHu0HHnL6rFkyU+mAKYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroyT22azFzR/Zqw4e2g1SwPjn+uM XYycHBICJhKbjz9lgrDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwhFFi6vRHrCAJIYHljBIHP1uC2GwCFhKXvz1l 7mLk4BARiJH4OJELJCwsECVx/PhPsJkiAtESq95uhrKtJJ72XGEGsVkEVCWOn3zJBmLzCnhL HF62gx1ifKjEvntdYCM5BcIkdn4NBwkzAp3z/dQasNOYBcQlbj2ZD3WmgMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP /7FC2EoSk5aeY4Woz5do+nmfGWKVoMTJmU9YJjCKzEIyahaSsllIyiDiOhILdn9ig7C1JZYt fM0MY5858JgJWXwBI/sqRo7S4tSy3HQjw02MwDg6JsHmuINxwSfLQ4wCHIxKPLwGdo9ChFgT y4orcw8xSnOwKInzll05GCIkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBUfSqpk37tDd/98m9 2diezGC2b+f7u1e9/8TPTZg3r2El15PfF9zSGHrCH1/R5982WZj9/R2HwAS5tScZGPQFHm2f vadoK8uf83ZyGXyXHBqCA6eGna2d3NWlGPjjrObuR483v8oVXMfwPrP0UHIqc7StHEvqXSWx uTcMTjU6fDLaezXTv4/RXImlOCPRUIu5qDgRAJEpiz6EAgAA Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [Idr] [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 02:06:47 -0000 --_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17Beusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xuxiaohu, thanks for the work. multiple things: The BFR-ID TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD2 Length:5 Value: contains a two-octet BFR-ID. I am missing here the indication of subdomain-id since without that, the BF= R-ID will easily collide within the BIER domain advertising the BGP info @ = the edge. The BSL TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD3 Length:4 Value: contains a one-octet BSL which indicates the length of the Bitstring in 4-octets. Is this encoded equivalent to MPLS draft ? Indicate so and indicate WHICH b= its are used and which are reserved. If not, indicate how e.g. 33 as bitst= ring length should be treated if e.g. the ensuing encaps cannot deal with i= t ? The BIER MPLS Encapsualtion TLV is encoded as follows: Type:TBD4 Length:7 Value: contains a one-octet Label Range Size field indicating the size of the label range, and a 3-octect Label Rang Base field where the 20 rightmost bits represent the first label in the label range. indicate that the other bits are reserved/must be ignored/send 0 Generally, it is considered de rigeur to make nice pictures of those TLVs t= o make the documents more readable. I suggest doing so. Another question here is what happens when multiple eBPG edges of an AD adv= ertise this attribute. Is the preference driven by MED [or another attribut= e?] based e.g. on the IGP distance within AD to the BFR ? Is the expectation that each BGP router advertising this is BFR itself ? Or= has capabilities to unicast tunnel into the BIER domain ? Overall, this seems to imply somewhat that BIER domain is aligned with the = whole IGP domain (and not areas) and e.g. two OSPF areas cannot be two BIER= domains. This is an interesting architectural question that wasn't brough= t up yet ? thanks --- tony > -----Original Message----- > From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 5:31 PM > To: bier@ietf.org; idr wg > Subject: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xu-idr-bier-extens= ions- > 00.txt > > Hi all, > > Any comments are welcome. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto= :internet-drafts@ietf.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:26 AM > > To: Mach Chen; Xuxiaohu; Xuxiaohu; IJsbrand Wijnands; Keyur Patel; > > Keyur Patel; IJsbrand Wijnands; Mach Chen > > Subject: New Version Notification for > > draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Xiaohu Xu and posted to the IETF > repository. > > > > Name: draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions > > Revision: 00 > > Title: BGP Extensions for BIER > > Document date: 2015-02-16 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 7 > > URL: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-bier-exte= nsions/ > > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions= -00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > Bit Index Explicit Replication (BIER) is a new multicast forwarding > > architecture which doesn't require an explicit tree-building protoco= l > > and doesn't require intermediate routers to maintain any multicast > > state. BIER is applicable in a multi-tenant data center network > > envioronment for efficient delivery of Broadcast, Unknown-unicast an= d > > Multicast (BUM) traffic while eliminating the need for maitaining a > > huge amount of multicast state in an underlay. This document > > describes BGP extensions for advertising the BIER-specific > > information. These extesnions are applicable in those multi-tenant > > data centers where BGP instead of IGP is deployed as an underlay for > > network reachability advertisement. These extensions may also be > > applicable in other scenarios. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.i= etf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier --_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17Beusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<hat type=3D”individual cat contributor”&g= t;

 

Xuxiaohu, thanks for the work.

 

multiple things:

 

  The BFR-ID TLV is encoded as follows:=

 

      Type:TBD2=

 

      Length:5<= /strong>

 

      Value: contains a two-octet BFR-ID.

 

I am missing here the indication of subdomain-id since wi= thout that, the BFR-ID will easily collide within the BIER domain advertisi= ng the BGP info @ the edge.

 

The BSL TLV is encoded as follows:

 

      Type:TBD3<= /b>

 

      Length:4

 

      Value: contains a one-octet BSL whi= ch indicates the length of the

      Bitstring in 4-octets.

 <= /o:p>

Is this encoded equivalent to MPLS draft ? Indicate so an= d indicate WHICH bits are used and which are reserved. If not, indicate how= e.g.  33 as bitstring length should be treated if e.g. the ensuing encaps cannot deal with it ?=

 

   The BIER MPLS Encapsualtion TLV is encoded as follows= :

 

      Type:TBD4<= /b>

 

      Length:7

 

      Value: contains a one-octet Label R= ange Size field indicating the

      size of the label range, and a 3-oc= tect Label Rang Base field

      where the 20 rightmost bits represe= nt the first label in the label

      range.=

 

indicate that the other bits are reserved/must be ignored= /send 0

 

Generally, it is considered de rigeur to make nice pictur= es of those TLVs to make the documents more readable. I suggest doing so.

 

Another question here is what happens when multiple eBPG = edges of an AD advertise this attribute. Is the preference driven by MED [o= r another attribute?] based e.g. on the IGP distance within AD to the BFR ?

 

Is the expectation that each BGP router advertising this = is BFR itself ? Or has capabilities to unicast tunnel into the BIER domain = ?

 

Overall, this seems to imply somewhat that BIER domain is= aligned with the whole IGP domain (and not areas) and e.g. two OSPF areas = cannot be two BIER domains.  This is an interesting architectural question that wasn’t brought up yet ?=

 

</hat>

 

thanks

 

--- tony

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Xuxiaohu

> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 5:31 PM

> To: bier@ietf.org; idr wg

> Subject: [Bier] FW: New Version Notification for dra= ft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-

> 00.txt

>

> Hi all,

>

> Any comments are welcome.

>

> Best regards,

> Xiaohu

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-= drafts@ietf.org]

> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:26 AM=

> > To: Mach Chen; Xuxiaohu; Xuxiaohu; IJsbrand Wij= nands; Keyur Patel;

> > Keyur Patel; IJsbrand Wijnands; Mach Chen

> > Subject: New Version Notification for

> > draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt

> >

> >

> > A new version of I-D, draft-xu-idr-bier-extensi= ons-00.txt

> > has been successfully submitted by Xiaohu Xu an= d posted to the IETF

> repository.

> >

> > Name:       =             &nb= sp;      draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions

> > Revision:       0= 0

> > Title:       = ;            &n= bsp;         BGP Extensions for BIE= R

> > Document date:     &nb= sp;   2015-02-16

> > Group:       = ;            &n= bsp;      Individual Submission

> > Pages:       = ;            &n= bsp;       7

> > URL:

> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00.txt

> > Status:      &nbs= p;  = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions/

> > Htmlized:       htt= p://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-idr-bier-extensions-00

> >

> >

> > Abstract:

> >    Bit Index Explicit Replicatio= n (BIER) is a new multicast forwarding

> >    architecture which doesn't re= quire an explicit tree-building protocol

> >    and doesn't require intermedi= ate routers to maintain any multicast

> >    state.  BIER is applicab= le in a multi-tenant data center network

> >    envioronment for efficient de= livery of Broadcast, Unknown-unicast and

> >    Multicast (BUM) traffic while= eliminating the need for maitaining a

> >    huge amount of multicast stat= e in an underlay.  This document

> >    describes BGP extensions for = advertising the BIER-specific

> >    information.  These exte= snions are applicable in those multi-tenant

> >    data centers where BGP instea= d of IGP is deployed as an underlay for

> >    network reachability advertis= ement.  These extensions may also be

> >    applicable in other scenarios= .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Please note that it may take a couple of minute= s from the time of

> > submission until the htmlized version and diff = are available at tools.ietf.org.

> >

> > The IETF Secretariat

>

> _______________________________________________

> BIER mailing list

> BIER@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/bier

--_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F1825C17Beusaamb103ericsso_-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F081A8930; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msdEwbczb9kp; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F23B1A88F5; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Kathleen Moriarty" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 01:36:56 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems like a good idea to document these features. I found a couple of nits you might want to fix: ASN is first expanded in section 1.2. Although it is a well known acronym, you might want to expand it on first use instead. Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id E085B1A89AD; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F081A8930; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msdEwbczb9kp; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F23B1A88F5; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Kathleen Moriarty" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 01:36:57 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems like a good idea to document these features. I found a couple of nits you might want to fix: ASN is first expanded in section 1.2. Although it is a well known acronym, you might want to expand it on first use instead. Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2281A7D80; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOSIFKu3ZFjC; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-f47.google.com (mail-la0-f47.google.com [209.85.215.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED3481A701F; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by labhs14 with SMTP id hs14so39039778lab.1; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=p19kI0Nb5FOq3BafpcIf3EfZP7kYANLMqGuv1duStvA=; b=bShFThIItujtoumaQEdMC/EfkB8bnBNuMGl2EM+fyRSXWU4YuQZ45L8qkNxSnDnGiC S/7q5CcQCgATq60uqxTTWT8FMf5KLwAOuLno52lhHZZNmO9CivPamUlaxVxbufBmDmCs qjQnaIezWRKkzvMZvPwvFcUnmlxZ3ZP/7OsKJe7D+vQu/OXTIlB5bNA4L96qkZXh18m5 zPzDBNFlOzy9OAr1D/bp8b/ATRrNCbSFQQ59LXkJWN4GltUh5LXts6Vy4TbAzRk3dPLY sWT2v1Bj6J9I2/Ni2zkI+CRWdtFVl+UV8dE7C12BA3815toWgjqyyiDzNnrhRItSakm5 7RGw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.36.138 with SMTP id q10mr14066948laj.113.1424229131476; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.167.101 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:12:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Kathleen Moriarty To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, Chris Morrow , The IESG , Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 03:12:15 -0000 --089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Barry and Kathleen: > > I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd. Authors > will respond - but > Note or Note Well: Will work with IDR chair. > It's fine to leave it. Thanks. Kathleen > > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > Barry > Leiba > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM > To: Kathleen Moriarty > Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > > > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? > > "Nota bene", note well. > > I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." > and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the > end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, > "Note:" would work fine. > > Barry > > -- Best regards, Kathleen --089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
Barry and Kathleen:

I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd.=C2=A0 Aut= hors
will respond - but
Note or Note Well:=C2=A0 Will work with IDR chair.
It's fine to leave it. =C2=A0

Than= ks.
Kathleen=C2=A0

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mai= lto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Be= half Of Barry
Leiba
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM
To: Kathleen Moriarty
Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org;
draft-ietf-idr-= as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-c= hairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT)

> Section 4.1. what is "NB:"?

"Nota bene", note well.

I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e.&= quot;
and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them.=C2=A0 But= in the
end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor).=C2=A0 In this case, "Note:" would work fine.

Barry




--
=

Best regards,
Kathleen
--089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 18D6A1A8937; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2281A7D80; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOSIFKu3ZFjC; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-f47.google.com (mail-la0-f47.google.com [209.85.215.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED3481A701F; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by labhs14 with SMTP id hs14so39039778lab.1; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=p19kI0Nb5FOq3BafpcIf3EfZP7kYANLMqGuv1duStvA=; b=bShFThIItujtoumaQEdMC/EfkB8bnBNuMGl2EM+fyRSXWU4YuQZ45L8qkNxSnDnGiC S/7q5CcQCgATq60uqxTTWT8FMf5KLwAOuLno52lhHZZNmO9CivPamUlaxVxbufBmDmCs qjQnaIezWRKkzvMZvPwvFcUnmlxZ3ZP/7OsKJe7D+vQu/OXTIlB5bNA4L96qkZXh18m5 zPzDBNFlOzy9OAr1D/bp8b/ATRrNCbSFQQ59LXkJWN4GltUh5LXts6Vy4TbAzRk3dPLY sWT2v1Bj6J9I2/Ni2zkI+CRWdtFVl+UV8dE7C12BA3815toWgjqyyiDzNnrhRItSakm5 7RGw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.36.138 with SMTP id q10mr14066948laj.113.1424229131476; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.167.101 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> References: <20150218013655.30179.21188.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <004901d04b24$cc23d2b0$646b7810$@ndzh.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:12:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Kathleen Moriarty To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, Chris Morrow , The IESG , Barry Leiba Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 03:12:15 -0000 --089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Barry and Kathleen: > > I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd. Authors > will respond - but > Note or Note Well: Will work with IDR chair. > It's fine to leave it. Thanks. Kathleen > > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mailto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > Barry > Leiba > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM > To: Kathleen Moriarty > Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > > > Section 4.1. what is "NB:"? > > "Nota bene", note well. > > I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e." > and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them. But in the > end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor). In this case, > "Note:" would work fine. > > Barry > > -- Best regards, Kathleen --089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
Barry and Kathleen:

I use the Latin phrases such as N.B. so it did not see it as odd.=C2=A0 Aut= hors
will respond - but
Note or Note Well:=C2=A0 Will work with IDR chair.
It's fine to leave it. =C2=A0

Than= ks.
Kathleen=C2=A0

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: barryleiba@gmail.com [mai= lto:barryleiba@gmail.com] On Be= half Of Barry
Leiba
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:15 PM
To: Kathleen Moriarty
Cc: The IESG; Chris Morrow; idr@ietf.org;
draft-ietf-idr-= as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-c= hairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT)

> Section 4.1. what is "NB:"?

"Nota bene", note well.

I have a preference for avoiding Latin abbreviations (including "i.e.&= quot;
and "e.g."), and I always suggest that we not use them.=C2=A0 But= in the
end, it's up to the authors (and the RFC Editor).=C2=A0 In this case, "Note:" would work fine.

Barry




--
=

Best regards,
Kathleen
--089e0160b92275e344050f542f5b-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7F51A1A4B; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XPpPatHXHDku; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3B81A1A3C; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alissa Cooper" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:13 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:37:14 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 9: "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it seems particularly ill-advised. From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id F254F1A1A4F; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7F51A1A4B; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XPpPatHXHDku; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3B81A1A3C; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alissa Cooper" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:37:13 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:37:15 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 9: "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it seems particularly ill-advised. From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:14:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB151A1B62 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MmC7qeXG0aUn for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A97F71A1B77 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254CA20A8A for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:50:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= mesmtp; bh=QLu0TT+8ukHwcmdaSyWQlm+Dr/E=; b=isbr0dSc3apObrjuWYBpA LO3lYC5+g3gYV1Pk8aC4wG2gX4fTeUSzrT3S5yjbvWTyHttUUkxQCbgQJqpA90Nh QuUe35YkJQUd2ltBjxfTKGy6Byc+T6ZIs1cxyRT04Z1gbiNeJpncUWVLf1v8QxCL SM4d1ecIPq0c5wxmotlEaM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to; s=smtpout; bh=QLu0TT+8ukHwcmdaSyWQlm+ Dr/E=; b=OHIVCh6hK2NcPBw/tmxm3aNI5S9UPIBSo3e5zWNZTfgh4pX1j+2pQ3v ga3jbx6P3q9IQfncTg9T/p4YPfatq6pwxiU0Jkr7LSJKQHlNsckgrbNl6N0sppvu pn3ulkf2+Lpz+sq8Od86p3MB9+Uv+AKgkdSZE523pt1Nh/W9VfmM= X-Sasl-enc: u961PcS29+w6tj97L3D3OaZC+MujsojFER9Nrm/5GvMt 1424299817 Received: from dhcp-171-68-21-15.cisco.com (unknown [171.68.21.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A1C46C00295; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:50:16 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:14 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, IESG , draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:50:22 -0000 On Feb 18, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alissa:=20 >=20 > Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this = section? Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of = business that can happen? This specification is documenting what exists = in real networks with real costs.=20 >=20 > What causes you to hold your nose? =20 Sure. If anything that causes any entity to lose (or gain) revenue can = be considered a security issue, we would likely end up doing a lot of = strange things in protocol design in the name of =93security.=94 = Furthermore, one entity=92s loss can often be another=92s gain, where = neither entity would be considered an attacker in the sense of = perpetrating an attack a la RFC 4949. So I think it makes a lot more = sense to focus security considerations on technical threats and = mitigations and not consider any particular party=92s potential loss of = revenue in and of itself as a security threat.=20 Alissa >=20 > Sue=20 >=20 > -------- >=20 > The text: below:=20 >=20 > "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on = measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >=20 > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is = a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can = happen? What causes you to hold your nose?=20 >=20 >=20 > These =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org > Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Section 9: > "This could result in a > loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >=20 > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is = a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:15:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 6A83C1A1B85; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504D11A1B77 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qp6Gujn4Wpa6 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA54C1A1B83 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD8620A90 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:50:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= mesmtp; bh=QLu0TT+8ukHwcmdaSyWQlm+Dr/E=; b=isbr0dSc3apObrjuWYBpA LO3lYC5+g3gYV1Pk8aC4wG2gX4fTeUSzrT3S5yjbvWTyHttUUkxQCbgQJqpA90Nh QuUe35YkJQUd2ltBjxfTKGy6Byc+T6ZIs1cxyRT04Z1gbiNeJpncUWVLf1v8QxCL SM4d1ecIPq0c5wxmotlEaM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to; s=smtpout; bh=QLu0TT+8ukHwcmdaSyWQlm+ Dr/E=; b=OHIVCh6hK2NcPBw/tmxm3aNI5S9UPIBSo3e5zWNZTfgh4pX1j+2pQ3v ga3jbx6P3q9IQfncTg9T/p4YPfatq6pwxiU0Jkr7LSJKQHlNsckgrbNl6N0sppvu pn3ulkf2+Lpz+sq8Od86p3MB9+Uv+AKgkdSZE523pt1Nh/W9VfmM= X-Sasl-enc: u961PcS29+w6tj97L3D3OaZC+MujsojFER9Nrm/5GvMt 1424299817 Received: from dhcp-171-68-21-15.cisco.com (unknown [171.68.21.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A1C46C00295; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:50:16 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:50:14 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:14:44 -0800 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, IESG , draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 22:50:22 -0000 On Feb 18, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alissa:=20 >=20 > Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this = section? Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of = business that can happen? This specification is documenting what exists = in real networks with real costs.=20 >=20 > What causes you to hold your nose? =20 Sure. If anything that causes any entity to lose (or gain) revenue can = be considered a security issue, we would likely end up doing a lot of = strange things in protocol design in the name of =93security.=94 = Furthermore, one entity=92s loss can often be another=92s gain, where = neither entity would be considered an attacker in the sense of = perpetrating an attack a la RFC 4949. So I think it makes a lot more = sense to focus security considerations on technical threats and = mitigations and not consider any particular party=92s potential loss of = revenue in and of itself as a security threat.=20 Alissa >=20 > Sue=20 >=20 > -------- >=20 > The text: below:=20 >=20 > "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on = measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >=20 > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is = a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can = happen? What causes you to hold your nose?=20 >=20 >=20 > These =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org > Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Section 9: > "This could result in a > loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >=20 > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is = a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems particularly ill-advised. >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:28:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7144D1A1B0D; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DThxxg1D13Fw; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D40D1A1AB5; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:07 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Alissa Cooper'" References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 19:28:03 -0500 Message-ID: <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJVefqstoO5why0GAzXAZ7/XyJMhwD+ZS6CAgLsCOeb1LRMAA== X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, 'IESG' , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 00:28:09 -0000 Alissa: OK - I can work with Wes to restate the text in a better way in section 9. Alia had some comments about the technical nature to beef up that section. On, section 1 was it this set of sentences that caused you to be concerned? In addition, it is common practice in the industry for ISPs to bill customers based on utilization. ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's access circuit. Given that the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, it is critical that the ISP does not increase AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers, who are likely sending or receiving traffic from those transit customers. This would not only result in sudden changes in traffic patterns in the network, but also substantially decrease utilization driven revenue at the ISP. If so, can you unpack more details on what concerned you? Sue -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:50 PM To: Susan Hares Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; IESG; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) On Feb 18, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alissa: > > Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this section? Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of business that can happen? This specification is documenting what exists in real networks with real costs. > > What causes you to hold your nose? Sure. If anything that causes any entity to lose (or gain) revenue can be considered a security issue, we would likely end up doing a lot of strange things in protocol design in the name of "security." Furthermore, one entity's loss can often be another's gain, where neither entity would be considered an attacker in the sense of perpetrating an attack a la RFC 4949. So I think it makes a lot more sense to focus security considerations on technical threats and mitigations and not consider any particular party's potential loss of revenue in and of itself as a security threat. Alissa > > Sue > > -------- > > The text: below: > > "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." > > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it seems particularly ill-advised. > ======== > Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can happen? What causes you to hold your nose? > > > These > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in] > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org > Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Section 9: > "This could result in a > loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." > > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it seems particularly ill-advised. > > > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Feb 18 16:28:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id B484E1A1B23; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7144D1A1B0D; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DThxxg1D13Fw; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D40D1A1AB5; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:28:07 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Alissa Cooper'" References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 19:28:03 -0500 Message-ID: <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJVefqstoO5why0GAzXAZ7/XyJMhwD+ZS6CAgLsCOeb1LRMAA== X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, 'IESG' , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 00:28:09 -0000 Alissa: OK - I can work with Wes to restate the text in a better way in section 9. Alia had some comments about the technical nature to beef up that section. On, section 1 was it this set of sentences that caused you to be concerned? In addition, it is common practice in the industry for ISPs to bill customers based on utilization. ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's access circuit. Given that the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, it is critical that the ISP does not increase AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers, who are likely sending or receiving traffic from those transit customers. This would not only result in sudden changes in traffic patterns in the network, but also substantially decrease utilization driven revenue at the ISP. If so, can you unpack more details on what concerned you? Sue -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:50 PM To: Susan Hares Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; IESG; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) On Feb 18, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alissa: > > Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this section? Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of business that can happen? This specification is documenting what exists in real networks with real costs. > > What causes you to hold your nose? Sure. If anything that causes any entity to lose (or gain) revenue can be considered a security issue, we would likely end up doing a lot of strange things in protocol design in the name of "security." Furthermore, one entity's loss can often be another's gain, where neither entity would be considered an attacker in the sense of perpetrating an attack a la RFC 4949. So I think it makes a lot more sense to focus security considerations on technical threats and mitigations and not consider any particular party's potential loss of revenue in and of itself as a security threat. Alissa > > Sue > > -------- > > The text: below: > > "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." > > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it seems particularly ill-advised. > ======== > Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can happen? What causes you to hold your nose? > > > These > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in] > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org > Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) > > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Section 9: > "This could result in a > loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization > of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." > > Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue is a slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my nose for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it seems particularly ill-advised. > > > _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Feb 18 17:37:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380F91A1AE3; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12Jz3jrttYFb; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21281A2130; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219013655.19791.36741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 01:36:59 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In the security considerations, isn't there a threat of hijacking traffic (for whatever purpose) if an unauthorised party can migrate? From nobody Wed Feb 18 17:37:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 6892D1A3BA3; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380F91A1AE3; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12Jz3jrttYFb; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21281A2130; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219013655.19791.36741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:36:55 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 01:36:59 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In the security considerations, isn't there a threat of hijacking traffic (for whatever purpose) if an unauthorised party can migrate? From nobody Wed Feb 18 20:36:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887B21A86F6; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnDWXVrQ93Qj; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963621A01D5; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Pete Resnick" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219043634.31970.79925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:34 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:36:36 -0000 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A procedural DISCUSS, which I expect will be cleared on the call, whatever the outcome: RFC 2026 says this in section 5 regarding what a BCP is for: Historically Internet standards have generally been concerned with the technical specifications for hardware and software required for computer communication across interconnected networks. However, since the Internet itself is composed of networks operated by a great variety of organizations, with diverse goals and rules, good user service requires that the operators and administrators of the Internet follow some common guidelines for policies and operations. While these guidelines are generally different in scope and style from protocol standards, their establishment needs a similar process for consensus building. That sounds like exactly what this document is doing. Sounds like it should be a BCP. Is there a reason it shouldn't be? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I tend to agree with Alissa's distaste for the style of the second paragraph in section 1. This is a technical document, so I don't see the need to get into the details of how the technology impacts business. I'm sure the people driving the decision to use this document will be fully aware of the business consequences, so no need to really go into them here. Here's a suggestion by way of toning it down: NEW The migration features discussed here are useful to ISPs and organizations of all sizes, but they are critical for ISPs' operations when it is necessary to seamlessly migrate both internal and external BGP speakers from one ASN to a second ASN, such as during a merger, acquisition or divestiture involving two organizations. The overall goal in doing so is to simplify operations through consistent configurations across all BGP speakers in the combined network. In addition, ISPs find it critical to maintain utilization of their network resources by their customers. Because the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, an increase in AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers would result in significant changes to traffic patterns and decreased utilization by those customers. From nobody Wed Feb 18 20:36:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id ABD021A8766; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887B21A86F6; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnDWXVrQ93Qj; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963621A01D5; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Pete Resnick" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219043634.31970.79925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:36:34 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:36:36 -0000 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A procedural DISCUSS, which I expect will be cleared on the call, whatever the outcome: RFC 2026 says this in section 5 regarding what a BCP is for: Historically Internet standards have generally been concerned with the technical specifications for hardware and software required for computer communication across interconnected networks. However, since the Internet itself is composed of networks operated by a great variety of organizations, with diverse goals and rules, good user service requires that the operators and administrators of the Internet follow some common guidelines for policies and operations. While these guidelines are generally different in scope and style from protocol standards, their establishment needs a similar process for consensus building. That sounds like exactly what this document is doing. Sounds like it should be a BCP. Is there a reason it shouldn't be? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I tend to agree with Alissa's distaste for the style of the second paragraph in section 1. This is a technical document, so I don't see the need to get into the details of how the technology impacts business. I'm sure the people driving the decision to use this document will be fully aware of the business consequences, so no need to really go into them here. Here's a suggestion by way of toning it down: NEW The migration features discussed here are useful to ISPs and organizations of all sizes, but they are critical for ISPs' operations when it is necessary to seamlessly migrate both internal and external BGP speakers from one ASN to a second ASN, such as during a merger, acquisition or divestiture involving two organizations. The overall goal in doing so is to simplify operations through consistent configurations across all BGP speakers in the combined network. In addition, ISPs find it critical to maintain utilization of their network resources by their customers. Because the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, an increase in AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers would result in significant changes to traffic patterns and decreased utilization by those customers. From nobody Wed Feb 18 20:44:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEF31A8704; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_ESTABLISH2=2.492, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZPZ09tCaSNFR; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0B8B1A86F6; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mb-aye.local (c-98-248-47-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.248.47.249]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1J4ickU041703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:44:39 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <54E56A31.20508@bogus.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:33 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/34.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Farrell , The IESG References: <20150219013655.19791.36741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219013655.19791.36741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS" Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:44:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/18/15 5:36 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this= > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htm= l > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 >=20 > In the security considerations, isn't there a threat of > hijacking traffic (for whatever purpose) if an > unauthorised party can migrate? I wouldn't expect the threat of hijack, either due to mis-origination or as-path manipulation to be greater during the merger of two ASNs then operating them seperately. the opportunity for grievous error exists but that's not extrinsic to the common administrative domain encompassing both ASNs. With respect to a changing the backing asn on a router with changing the asn on the bgp session with the customer, the goal is to leave-pre-eastablished relationships unchanged until they can later be migrated. that can include the ip addresses in use on both ends, arp entries, shared secrets if employed and potentially even the tcp session itself, if supported by the platform. >=20 --rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlTlajEACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrL9UQCaAnHEJBhFZqs0PSb98Pp/dDCy ceYAn31LIREKbEs+fl4Ni0Js/TQE9/pK =AwsT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS-- From nobody Wed Feb 18 20:44:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 930351A8749; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEF31A8704; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_ESTABLISH2=2.492, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZPZ09tCaSNFR; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0B8B1A86F6; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mb-aye.local (c-98-248-47-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.248.47.249]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1J4ickU041703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:44:39 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <54E56A31.20508@bogus.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:44:33 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/34.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Farrell , The IESG References: <20150219013655.19791.36741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219013655.19791.36741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS" Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:44:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/18/15 5:36 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this= > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htm= l > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 >=20 > In the security considerations, isn't there a threat of > hijacking traffic (for whatever purpose) if an > unauthorised party can migrate? I wouldn't expect the threat of hijack, either due to mis-origination or as-path manipulation to be greater during the merger of two ASNs then operating them seperately. the opportunity for grievous error exists but that's not extrinsic to the common administrative domain encompassing both ASNs. With respect to a changing the backing asn on a router with changing the asn on the bgp session with the customer, the goal is to leave-pre-eastablished relationships unchanged until they can later be migrated. that can include the ip addresses in use on both ends, arp entries, shared secrets if employed and potentially even the tcp session itself, if supported by the platform. >=20 --rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlTlajEACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrL9UQCaAnHEJBhFZqs0PSb98Pp/dDCy ceYAn31LIREKbEs+fl4Ni0Js/TQE9/pK =AwsT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rO46bA9Kw0HBIU20dAt13uOrjW4sNL4cS-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 04:52:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA241A9024; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:52:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zB6Uo10_rb4h; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45FFE1A9037; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 04:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EFBB1264357; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:52:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D07EE4C0C7; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:52:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a441:e6a9:6143:6f0f]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:52:28 +0100 From: To: idr wg , "grow@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: BCP 194, RFC 7454 on BGP Operations and Security Thread-Index: AQHQS8+HjMYsdm205UywHhGifFSYZ5z37UnA Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:52:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4431_1424350348_54E5DC8C_4431_398_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0EB3EDB8@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20150218230309.5D671181D1F@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20150218230309.5D671181D1F@rfc-editor.org> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.12.22.190922 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] BCP 194, RFC 7454 on BGP Operations and Security X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:52:33 -0000 FYI. Might be of interest of IDR & GROW WG=20 -----Original Message----- From: IETF-Announce [mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of rf= c-editor@rfc-editor.org Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:03 AM To: ietf-announce@ietf.org; rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Cc: opsec@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: BCP 194, RFC 7454 on BGP Operations and Security A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. BCP 194=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 RFC 7454 Title: BGP Operations and Security=20 Author: J. Durand, I. Pepelnjak, G. Doering Status: Best Current Practice Stream: IETF Date: February 2015 Mailbox: jerduran@cisco.com,=20 ip@ipspace.net,=20 gert@space.net Pages: 26 Characters: 56946 See Also: BCP 194 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-opsec-bgp-security-07.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7454 The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is the protocol almost exclusively used i= n the Internet to exchange routing information between network domains. Du= e to this central nature, it is important to understand the security measur= es that can and should be deployed to prevent accidental or intentional rou= ting disturbances. This document describes measures to protect the BGP sessions itself such as= Time to Live (TTL), the TCP Authentication Option (TCP-AO), and control-pl= ane filtering. It also describes measures to better control the flow of ro= uting information, using prefix filtering and automation of prefix filters,= max-prefix filtering, Autonomous System (AS) path filtering, route flap dampening, and BGP community scrubbing. This document is a product of the Operational Security Capabilities for IP = Network Infrastructure Working Group of the IETF. BCP: This document specifies an Internet Best Current Practices for the Int= ernet Community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. = Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For dow= nloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author = of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifical= ly noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distributi= on. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Thu Feb 19 05:06:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991631A87BC; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:06:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BAD_LINEBREAK=0.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jN4honUWy72n; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C008E1A9041; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:06:02 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.25.6; Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:09:03 -0500 Message-ID: Importance: normal From: Sue Hares To: Pete Resnick , The IESG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.android.email_1441313921560790" X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:06:06 -0000 ----_com.android.email_1441313921560790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UGV0ZToKCldlIGRlYmF0ZWQgwqB0aGUgYmdwIHZlcnN1cyB0aGUgcmZjLiDCoFRoZSBwcm9ibGVt IGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlc2UgYmVoYXZpb3IgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBmdW5kYW1lbnRhbCBhc3N1bXB0aW9u 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id izyIs73Dckmz; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:40:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E411A8795; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:40:57 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Pete Resnick'" , "'The IESG'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:40:50 -0500 Message-ID: <005e01d04c49$ad2e9860$078bc920$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJK187CqHrtHxQGy0IoA9qcdcpAOpwC4xQw X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:41:01 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete: =20 We=E2=80=99ll sending it rapidly from the road did not work: (see the = corrected text).=20 =20 We debated the bcp versus the rfc. The problem is that these behavior = change the fundamental assumptions that bgp in a way that impacts sidr. = When we first finally take time to revise the bgp specification = (rfc4271) to update it to current status if we miss this draft then we = will have missed a portion of the new decision tree algorithm. This is = important for the data center, mobile backhaul networks, and carrier = networks. Due to this fact we decided that BCP did not fit the case. =20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Sue Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 8:09 AM To: Pete Resnick; The IESG Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) =20 Pete: =20 We debated the bgp versus the rfc. The problem is that these behavior = change the fundamental assumptions that bgp in away that impacts sidr. = When we first finally take time to revise the bgp specification = (rfc4271) to update it to current status if we miss this draft then we = will have a whole I'm the new decision tree algorithm. This is = important for the data center, mobile backhaul networks, and carrier = networks. Due to this fact we decided that bcp did not fit the case. =20 =20 Sue =20 =20 Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S=C2=AE4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone =20 -------- Original message -------- From: Pete Resnick =20 Date:02/18/2015 11:36 PM (GMT-05:00)=20 To: The IESG =20 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org=20 Subject: Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with = DISCUSS and COMMENT)=20 =20 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A procedural DISCUSS, which I expect will be cleared on the call, whatever the outcome: RFC 2026 says this in section 5 regarding what a BCP is for: Historically Internet standards have generally been concerned with the technical specifications for hardware and software required for computer communication across interconnected networks. However, since the Internet itself is composed of networks operated by a great variety of organizations, with diverse goals and rules, good user service requires that the operators and administrators of the Internet follow some common guidelines for policies and operations. While these guidelines are generally different in scope and style from protocol standards, their establishment needs a similar process for consensus building. That sounds like exactly what this document is doing. Sounds like it should be a BCP. Is there a reason it shouldn't be? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I tend to agree with Alissa's distaste for the style of the second paragraph in section 1. This is a technical document, so I don't see the need to get into the details of how the technology impacts business. I'm sure the people driving the decision to use this document will be fully aware of the business consequences, so no need to really go into them here. Here's a suggestion by way of toning it down: NEW The migration features discussed here are useful to ISPs and organizations of all sizes, but they are critical for ISPs' operations when it is necessary to seamlessly migrate both internal and external BGP speakers from one ASN to a second ASN, such as during a merger, acquisition or divestiture involving two organizations. The overall goal in doing so is to simplify operations through consistent configurations across all BGP speakers in the combined network. In addition, ISPs find it critical to maintain utilization of their network resources by their customers.=20 Because the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, an increase in AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers would result in significant changes to traffic patterns and decreased utilization by those customers. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pete:

 

We=E2=80=99ll sending it rapidly from the road did not work: (see the = corrected text).

 

We debated  the = bcp versus the rfc.  The problem is that these behavior change the = fundamental assumptions  that bgp in a way that impacts sidr. =  When we first finally take time to revise the bgp specification = (rfc4271) to update it to current status if we miss this draft then we = will have missed =C2=A0a portion of the new decision tree = algorithm.  This is important for the data center, mobile backhaul = networks, and carrier networks.  Due to this fact we decided that = BCP did not fit the case. =  

 

Sue

 

 

 

From:= = Sue Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Thursday, February = 19, 2015 8:09 AM
To: Pete Resnick; The IESG
Cc: = morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Pete = Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and = COMMENT)

 

Pete:

 

We debated  the bgp versus the rfc.  The = problem is that these behavior change the fundamental assumptions =  that bgp in away that impacts sidr.  When we first finally = take time to revise the bgp specification (rfc4271) to update it to = current status if we miss this draft then we will have a whole I'm the = new decision tree algorithm.  This is important for the data = center, mobile backhaul networks, and carrier networks.  Due to = this fact we decided that bcp did not fit the case. =  

 

Sue

 

 

Sent via = the Samsung GALAXY S=C2=AE4, an AT&T 4G LTE = smartphone

 

-------- Original message = --------

From: Pete = Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com&g= t;

Date:02/18/2015 11:36 = PM (GMT-05:00)

To: The = IESG <iesg@ietf.org> =

Subject: Pete Resnick's Discuss on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) =

 

Pete Resnick has entered the following = ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and = reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel = free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please = refer to http://= www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more = information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The = document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
htt= p://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/


=
---------------------------------------------------------------------= -
DISCUSS:
--------------------------------------------------------= --------------

A procedural DISCUSS, which I expect will be = cleared on the call,
whatever the outcome:

RFC 2026 says this = in section 5 regarding what a BCP is for:

   = Historically Internet standards have generally been concerned = with
   the technical specifications for hardware and = software required for
   computer communication across = interconnected networks.  However,
   since the = Internet itself is composed of networks operated by a = great
   variety of organizations, with diverse goals and = rules, good user
   service requires that the operators and = administrators of the
   Internet follow some common = guidelines for policies and operations.
   While these = guidelines are generally different in scope and style
   = from protocol standards, their establishment needs a similar = process
   for consensus building.

That sounds like = exactly what this document is doing. Sounds like it
should be a BCP. = Is there a reason it shouldn't = be?


----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------= -------------------------

I tend to agree with Alissa's distaste = for the style of the second
paragraph in section 1. This is a = technical document, so I don't see the
need to get into the details = of how the technology impacts business. I'm
sure the people driving = the decision to use this document will be fully
aware of the business = consequences, so no need to really go into them
here. Here's a = suggestion by way of toning it down:

NEW
   The = migration features discussed here are useful to ISPs and
   = organizations of all sizes, but they are critical for = ISPs'
   operations when it is necessary to seamlessly = migrate both internal
   and external BGP speakers from one = ASN to a second ASN, such as
   during a merger, = acquisition or divestiture involving two
   = organizations.  The overall goal in doing so is to = simplify
   operations through consistent configurations = across all BGP speakers
   in the combined network.  = In addition, ISPs find it critical to
   maintain = utilization of their network resources by their customers. =
   Because the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes = with the
   shortest AS_PATH attribute, an increase in = AS_PATH length during or
   after ASN migration toward = downstream transit customers or
   settlement-free peers = would result in significant changes to traffic
   patterns = and decreased utilization by those = customers.

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 05:41:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 35A201A904D; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:41:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE601A8A4C; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:41:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id izyIs73Dckmz; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:40:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E411A8795; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:40:57 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Pete Resnick'" , "'The IESG'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:40:50 -0500 Message-ID: <005e01d04c49$ad2e9860$078bc920$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJK187CqHrtHxQGy0IoA9qcdcpAOpwC4xQw X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:41:01 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete: =20 We=E2=80=99ll sending it rapidly from the road did not work: (see the = corrected text).=20 =20 We debated the bcp versus the rfc. The problem is that these behavior = change the fundamental assumptions that bgp in a way that impacts sidr. = When we first finally take time to revise the bgp specification = (rfc4271) to update it to current status if we miss this draft then we = will have missed a portion of the new decision tree algorithm. This is = important for the data center, mobile backhaul networks, and carrier = networks. Due to this fact we decided that BCP did not fit the case. =20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Sue Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 8:09 AM To: Pete Resnick; The IESG Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) =20 Pete: =20 We debated the bgp versus the rfc. The problem is that these behavior = change the fundamental assumptions that bgp in away that impacts sidr. = When we first finally take time to revise the bgp specification = (rfc4271) to update it to current status if we miss this draft then we = will have a whole I'm the new decision tree algorithm. This is = important for the data center, mobile backhaul networks, and carrier = networks. Due to this fact we decided that bcp did not fit the case. =20 =20 Sue =20 =20 Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S=C2=AE4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone =20 -------- Original message -------- From: Pete Resnick =20 Date:02/18/2015 11:36 PM (GMT-05:00)=20 To: The IESG =20 Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org, = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org=20 Subject: Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with = DISCUSS and COMMENT)=20 =20 Pete Resnick has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A procedural DISCUSS, which I expect will be cleared on the call, whatever the outcome: RFC 2026 says this in section 5 regarding what a BCP is for: Historically Internet standards have generally been concerned with the technical specifications for hardware and software required for computer communication across interconnected networks. However, since the Internet itself is composed of networks operated by a great variety of organizations, with diverse goals and rules, good user service requires that the operators and administrators of the Internet follow some common guidelines for policies and operations. While these guidelines are generally different in scope and style from protocol standards, their establishment needs a similar process for consensus building. That sounds like exactly what this document is doing. Sounds like it should be a BCP. Is there a reason it shouldn't be? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I tend to agree with Alissa's distaste for the style of the second paragraph in section 1. This is a technical document, so I don't see the need to get into the details of how the technology impacts business. I'm sure the people driving the decision to use this document will be fully aware of the business consequences, so no need to really go into them here. Here's a suggestion by way of toning it down: NEW The migration features discussed here are useful to ISPs and organizations of all sizes, but they are critical for ISPs' operations when it is necessary to seamlessly migrate both internal and external BGP speakers from one ASN to a second ASN, such as during a merger, acquisition or divestiture involving two organizations. The overall goal in doing so is to simplify operations through consistent configurations across all BGP speakers in the combined network. In addition, ISPs find it critical to maintain utilization of their network resources by their customers.=20 Because the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, an increase in AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers would result in significant changes to traffic patterns and decreased utilization by those customers. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pete:

 

We=E2=80=99ll sending it rapidly from the road did not work: (see the = corrected text).

 

We debated  the = bcp versus the rfc.  The problem is that these behavior change the = fundamental assumptions  that bgp in a way that impacts sidr. =  When we first finally take time to revise the bgp specification = (rfc4271) to update it to current status if we miss this draft then we = will have missed =C2=A0a portion of the new decision tree = algorithm.  This is important for the data center, mobile backhaul = networks, and carrier networks.  Due to this fact we decided that = BCP did not fit the case. =  

 

Sue

 

 

 

From:= = Sue Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Thursday, February = 19, 2015 8:09 AM
To: Pete Resnick; The IESG
Cc: = morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Pete = Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and = COMMENT)

 

Pete:

 

We debated  the bgp versus the rfc.  The = problem is that these behavior change the fundamental assumptions =  that bgp in away that impacts sidr.  When we first finally = take time to revise the bgp specification (rfc4271) to update it to = current status if we miss this draft then we will have a whole I'm the = new decision tree algorithm.  This is important for the data = center, mobile backhaul networks, and carrier networks.  Due to = this fact we decided that bcp did not fit the case. =  

 

Sue

 

 

Sent via = the Samsung GALAXY S=C2=AE4, an AT&T 4G LTE = smartphone

 

-------- Original message = --------

From: Pete = Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com&g= t;

Date:02/18/2015 11:36 = PM (GMT-05:00)

To: The = IESG <iesg@ietf.org> =

Subject: Pete Resnick's Discuss on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) =

 

Pete Resnick has entered the following = ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and = reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel = free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please = refer to http://= www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more = information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The = document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
htt= p://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/


=
---------------------------------------------------------------------= -
DISCUSS:
--------------------------------------------------------= --------------

A procedural DISCUSS, which I expect will be = cleared on the call,
whatever the outcome:

RFC 2026 says this = in section 5 regarding what a BCP is for:

   = Historically Internet standards have generally been concerned = with
   the technical specifications for hardware and = software required for
   computer communication across = interconnected networks.  However,
   since the = Internet itself is composed of networks operated by a = great
   variety of organizations, with diverse goals and = rules, good user
   service requires that the operators and = administrators of the
   Internet follow some common = guidelines for policies and operations.
   While these = guidelines are generally different in scope and style
   = from protocol standards, their establishment needs a similar = process
   for consensus building.

That sounds like = exactly what this document is doing. Sounds like it
should be a BCP. = Is there a reason it shouldn't = be?


----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------= -------------------------

I tend to agree with Alissa's distaste = for the style of the second
paragraph in section 1. This is a = technical document, so I don't see the
need to get into the details = of how the technology impacts business. I'm
sure the people driving = the decision to use this document will be fully
aware of the business = consequences, so no need to really go into them
here. Here's a = suggestion by way of toning it down:

NEW
   The = migration features discussed here are useful to ISPs and
   = organizations of all sizes, but they are critical for = ISPs'
   operations when it is necessary to seamlessly = migrate both internal
   and external BGP speakers from one = ASN to a second ASN, such as
   during a merger, = acquisition or divestiture involving two
   = organizations.  The overall goal in doing so is to = simplify
   operations through consistent configurations = across all BGP speakers
   in the combined network.  = In addition, ISPs find it critical to
   maintain = utilization of their network resources by their customers. =
   Because the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects routes = with the
   shortest AS_PATH attribute, an increase in = AS_PATH length during or
   after ASN migration toward = downstream transit customers or
   settlement-free peers = would result in significant changes to traffic
   patterns = and decreased utilization by those = customers.

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D04C1F.C45D4B50-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 05:54:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04481A9070; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CN1ZxHM01sme; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D6C1A878A; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ted Lemon" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219135435.16080.36217.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:35 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Ted Lemon's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:37 -0000 Ted Lemon has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would have raised the same DISCUSS Pete did, but since he raised it I'll no object and let his DISCUSS be where the DISCUSSion happens. From nobody Thu Feb 19 05:54:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 2EE3A1A907F; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04481A9070; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CN1ZxHM01sme; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D6C1A878A; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ted Lemon" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219135435.16080.36217.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:54:35 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Ted Lemon's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:37 -0000 Ted Lemon has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would have raised the same DISCUSS Pete did, but since he raised it I'll no object and let his DISCUSS be where the DISCUSSion happens. From nobody Thu Feb 19 05:58:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB5B1A904B for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:58:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3gF_jaCn5392 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB4A41A9047 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 05:58:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11891; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424354325; x=1425563925; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=cSLSbLKmtw2h8vhh1TYGZrC6vQYFAu6ONY7U1jrC5Vk=; b=jpft+bWVWsmzM7HTCWcBqyO1pxtQJeGR08zk0N1uOyd1nMB1OpPjD67g Wb8WM/xFBG3PoCSxIaHRUCcfXkLxkAwjsdLEoKEWcdd0cxOFZUtEUxwT1 xrCo0kjnsGrSvH5B1Ew+wSosBqM8RR+GX3fk4YP8GBJJpRI/ZZqCTcutk Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AcBQAQ6+VU/5RdJa1bgkNDUloEwl+FeQKBIEMBAQEBAQF8hBABAQR5EAIBCD8HIREUEQIEDgUch38DEc1VDYU5AQEBAQEBBAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4sPgkSCKgYBCYQhBY1bgXCDXIFXgkiBRoEZhWCFXkWGBiKDbm+BRH8BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,608,1418083200"; d="scan'208,217";a="125010902" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2015 13:58:44 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com [173.36.12.89]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1JDwhI1001604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:58:43 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.9.60]) by xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com ([173.36.12.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:58:43 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [Idr] AD review and progression of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 Thread-Index: AQHQTEwrk0uYnpcfIEqvln6PitZCIQ== Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:58:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D10B54CA979C5aretanaciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] AD review and progression of draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:58:54 -0000 --_000_D10B54CA979C5aretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/18/15, 5:35 PM, "Alia Atlas" > wrote: An updated version also addressing IESG comments would be good. Wes: Hi! I=92m not sure if my comments (below) made it to you =97 they were part of = my =93AD training=94 for the current review period. ;-) I know it=92s too late to change the structure of the document, so feel fr= ee to ignore those comments. However, I would really like to see something= in the text about the risk of potential loops..and the references to rfc42= 71 updated/corrected. Thanks! Alvaro. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I found the text a little hard to read: long sentences, the paragraphs incl= ude several ideas, etc.. The language is obviously ok, just feels heavy an= d complex (more than it has to be). What I think would have been nice is to describe the migration scenario and= functionality independent of the existing feature names first..and then sa= y =93BTW, the cisco features that do this are xxx..for Juniper yyy, etc.=94= . Talking about specific features creates expectations that further imple= mentations will do the exact same thing (specially when config snippets are= included): as in the functionality documented at the cisco site (for examp= le). I started thinking of this when reading 4.1, where Juniper=92s =91In= ternal BGP Alias=92 is discussed, and then the authors wrote: "NB: Cisco do= esn't have an exact equivalent to "Internal BGP Alias", but the combination= of the Cisco features iBGP local-AS and dual-as provides similar functiona= lity.=94..but the operation of dual-as and the differences are not discusse= d. Other comments: * The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to doc= ument de facto standards for future implementations and so that new feature= s (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not expecting all implem= entation to follow exactly (at least not the existing ones). My question i= s: should this be Informational instead of Standard? * Nit: "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater= of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on t= he customer=92s access circuit.=94 Not needed..this may of course change, = etc.. The utilization point has been made. * The use case Fig 1 and2, show customers C and D..but later, when expl= aining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. To make it easier to = follow the same names would be nice. * Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as=94 results in= eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH..in the example, the Old_ADN (64510) i= s eliminated. If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated yet (very r= eal possibility) then they may accept Updates that already went through the= ir ASN (64510). To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated= to the New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as=94 conf= ig..but I think that it would be important to describe the potential risk o= f using this feature =97 either as an Operational Consideration or in the S= ecurity section. * The text uses "MY ASN=94 to indicate the ASN number in the BGP Open M= essage. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that the reader u= nderstand what they=92re talking about, and (2) the field in the Open messa= ge is called "My Autonomous System=94 (not MY ASN). This shows up in 3.3 a= nd 4.2. * Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message =93BAD PEER AS=94 is mention= ed.. Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad= Peer AS=94. * Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about =93updates=94, bu= t the official name is =93UPDATE=94. Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is imp= ortant to be clear about what is being specified. In some cases the use is= mixed: =93..it MUST process the update as normal, but it MUST append the c= onfigured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute before advertising the UPDATE..=94. * In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation= .. As they wrote: =93..command syntax is an implementation detail beyond t= he scope of this document=94. Stay out of it. * Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being m= igrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would like to= see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in the text. Jus= t to keep a logical flow.. * 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices --_000_D10B54CA979C5aretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <72BD0BCFF3E3D849AB908F57FC8F2758@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2/18/15, 5:35 PM, "Alia Atlas" <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

An updated version also addressing IESG comments would be good. <= /blockquote>

Wes:

Hi!

I=92m not sure if my comments (below) made it to you =97 they were par= t of my =93AD training=94 for the current review period. ;-)

I  know it=92s too late to change the structure of the document, = so feel free to ignore those comments.  However, I would really like t= o see something in the text about the risk of potential loops..and the refe= rences to rfc4271 updated/corrected.

Thanks!

Alvaro.



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I found the text a little hard to read: long sentences, the paragraphs= include several ideas, etc..  The language is obviously ok, just feel= s heavy and complex (more than it has to be).

What I think would have been nice is= to describe the migration scenario and functionality independent of the ex= isting feature names first..and then say =93BTW, the cisco features that do= this are xxx..for Juniper yyy, etc.=94.   Talking about specific features creates expectations that further i= mplementations will do the exact same thing (specially when config sni= ppets are included): as in the functionality documented at the cisco site (= for example).   I started thinking of this when reading 4.1, where Juniper=92s =91Internal BGP Alias=92 is discussed,= and then the authors wrote: "NB: Cisco doesn't have an exact equivalent to "Internal B= GP Alias", but the combination of the Cisco features iBGP local-AS and dual-as provides similar functionality.=94..but the operation of dual-as and the differences are = not discussed.

Other comments:
  • The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to docum= ent de facto standards for future implementations and so that new features = (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not expecting all implemen= tation to follow exactly (at least not the existing ones).  My question is: should this be Informational= instead of Standard?
  • Nit: "= ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater= of the traffic sent or received, ov= er the course of a 1-month period, on the customer=92s access circuit.= =94  Not needed..this may of course change, etc..  The utilization point has been made.
  • The use case Fig 1 and2, show= customers C and D..but later, when explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B = are used instead.  To make it easier to follow the same names wou= ld be nice.
  • Potential loops!  Using "l= ocal-as no-prepend replace-as=94 results in eliminating an ASN from the AS_= PATH..in the example, the Old_ADN (64510) is eliminated.  If other rou= ters in ISP B have not been migrated yet (very real possibility) then they = may accept Updates that already went through their ASN (64510).  To be fa= ir, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the New_ASN before ap= plying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as=94 config..but I think= that it would be important to describe the potential risk of using this feature =97 either as an Operational Consideration or i= n the Security section.
  • The text = uses "MY ASN=94 to indicate the ASN number in the BGP Open Message. &n= bsp;However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that the reader unders= tand what they=92re talking about, and (2) the field in the Open message is called "My Autonomous System= =94 (not MY ASN).  This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2.
  • Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message&n= bsp;=93BAD PEER AS=94 is mentioned..  Again, no reference and wrong na= me.  The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad Peer AS=94.  
  • Other rfc4271 related nits..  The draft talks about = =93updates=94, but the official name is =93UPDATE=94.  Yes, maybe= OCD, but I think it is important to be clear about what is being spec= ified.  In some cases the use is mixed: =93..it MUST process the update as normal, but it MUST append the configured = ASN in the AS_PATH attribute before = advertising the UPDATE..=94.
  • In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation.. =  As they wrote: =93..command syntax is an implementation d= etail beyond the scope of this document=94.  Stay out of it.
    • =
  • Because the external features (Sectio= n 3) assumes that the AS being migrated is already using the New_ASN before= using local-as, I would like to see the internal features (Section 4)= be discussed first in the text.  Just to keep a logical flow..
  • = 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices


--_000_D10B54CA979C5aretanaciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:25:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60021A8778; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BNaY9Qpm1-48; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E97A1A0113; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:25:44 -0000 Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form. My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor edits would be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the document and considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm to start again. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the document to return to the working group. Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be published in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes. The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if you are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update the document. (Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.) The documentseems to address four topics: - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the behavior - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in specific implementations As Alvaro wrote: > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > document de facto standards for future implementations and so > that new features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is > not expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead > of Standard? I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators expectations about mechanisms that should be used within implementations. I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives the false impression that the three implementations described are the benchmark for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material to an appendix or a separate implementation document, but as the authors note, much or all of the information can be found on the websites of the companies concerned, and I think that is where it should stay. [Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration". That may be a better solution to all of our problems!] Here are the minor comments and nits... o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's access circuit." This information is not needed and may change at any time after the publication of this document. You have made the point about utilization: you can drop this text. o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used. o Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" results in eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that already went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops. To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as" config, but I think that it would be important to describe the potential risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration or in the Security section. o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP Open Message. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the field in the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY ASN). This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2. o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is mentioned.. Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad Peer AS". o Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about "updates", but the official name is "UPDATE". Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is important to be clear about what is being specified. In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update as normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute before advertising the UPDATE". o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation. While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail beyond the scope of this document, the following consideration may be helpful for implementers Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may" and that really calls its value into question. o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in the text to keep a logical flow. o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:25:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id D712F1A8786; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60021A8778; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BNaY9Qpm1-48; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E97A1A0113; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:25:42 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:25:45 -0000 Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form. My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor edits would be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the document and considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm to start again. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the document to return to the working group. Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be published in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes. The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if you are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update the document. (Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.) The documentseems to address four topics: - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the behavior - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in specific implementations As Alvaro wrote: > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > document de facto standards for future implementations and so > that new features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is > not expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead > of Standard? I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators expectations about mechanisms that should be used within implementations. I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives the false impression that the three implementations described are the benchmark for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material to an appendix or a separate implementation document, but as the authors note, much or all of the information can be found on the websites of the companies concerned, and I think that is where it should stay. [Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration". That may be a better solution to all of our problems!] Here are the minor comments and nits... o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's access circuit." This information is not needed and may change at any time after the publication of this document. You have made the point about utilization: you can drop this text. o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used. o Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" results in eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that already went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops. To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as" config, but I think that it would be important to describe the potential risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration or in the Security section. o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP Open Message. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the field in the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY ASN). This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2. o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is mentioned.. Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad Peer AS". o Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about "updates", but the official name is "UPDATE". Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is important to be clear about what is being specified. In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update as normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute before advertising the UPDATE". o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation. While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail beyond the scope of this document, the following consideration may be helpful for implementers Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may" and that really calls its value into question. o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in the text to keep a logical flow. o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:40:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5931A882F; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:40:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4fgj9YwnhWYo; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8314C1A874E; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YOSHE-0003Yk-7H; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:40:28 +0000 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:40:25 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Susan Hares In-Reply-To: <005e01d04c49$ad2e9860$078bc920$@ndzh.com> References: <005e01d04c49$ad2e9860$078bc920$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: idr wg , Pete Resnick , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnicks Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:40:43 -0000 > We debated the bcp versus the rfc. The problem is that these behavior > change the fundamental assumptions that bgp in a way that impacts > sidr. and there is a corresponding, equally over-wordy, companion draft in sidr. randy From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:48:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339CE1A1A91; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BEsXzL0KZ8fK; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DA41A001C; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Adrian Farrel'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:48:12 -0500 Message-ID: <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQHrnXlttzVtYxbkfvRl+HWLwfz9KZzBZVgQ X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:48:20 -0000 Alvaro and Adrian:=20 It's nice to have you chime in on this draft. As IDR chair, may I ask = we remove the draft from the IESG agenda today. I'll need some = unpacking of your reasoning.=20 Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this = effort? =20 If you are looking to scrap the effort, I need additional details on = why. It has been discussed by SIDR, Grow and IDR to be valuable for the = BGP deployments. This draft provides reasoning for the SIDR work on AS = migration. Your reasoning is that the "mechanism that BGP = implementation can use to provide the behavior" below .. seems to = suggest it should not be documented. New BGP implementations are = arising in DC, Mobile backend networks, and Carriers that utilize these = features so interoperable features are necessary.=20 If you are looking for a complete rewrite, I'm happy to work with you, = Alvaro, Alia and the authors to find a new acceptable form of the = draft(s).=20 My understanding is that you want to split to: Informational Draft:=20 - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration,=20 - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers,=20 Mechanism (RFC)=20 - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the Behavior [mechanism in RFC]=20 - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in specific implementations [mechanism draft appendix, non-normative] =20 If this is your desire, I will be happy to take this back to the authors = and the WG to create this draft.=20 Sue =20 -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:26 AM To: The IESG Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = (with COMMENT) Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form. My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor = edits would be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the = document and considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm = to start again. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the = document to return to the working group. Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be = published in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes. The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if = you are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update = the document. (Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.) The documentseems to address four topics: - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the behavior - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in specific implementations As Alvaro wrote: > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to=20 > document de facto standards for future implementations and so that new = > features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not=20 > expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the=20 > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead=20 > of Standard? I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive = requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, = but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is = no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this = information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it = might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators = expectations about mechanisms that should be used within = implementations. I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation = report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no = explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, = described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not = documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives = the false impression that the three implementations described are the = benchmark for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material = to an appendix or a separate implementation document, but as the authors = note, much or all of the information can be found on the websites of the = companies concerned, and I think that is where it should stay. [Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration". That = may be a better solution to all of our problems!] Here are the minor comments and nits... o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's access circuit." =20 =20 This information is not needed and may change at any time after the publication of this document. You have made the point about utilization: you can drop this text. o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. =20 =20 It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used. o Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" results in eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that already went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops. =20 To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as" config, but I think that it would be important to describe the potential risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration or in the Security section. o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP Open Message. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the field in the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY ASN). This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2. o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is mentioned.. Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad = Peer AS". =20 o Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about "updates", but the official name is "UPDATE". Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is important to be clear about what is being specified. =20 =20 In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update as normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute before advertising the UPDATE". o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation. While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail beyond the scope of this document, the following consideration may be helpful for implementers Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may" and that really calls its value into question. o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in the text to keep a logical flow. o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:48:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 566A41A8547; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339CE1A1A91; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BEsXzL0KZ8fK; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DA41A001C; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Adrian Farrel'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:48:12 -0500 Message-ID: <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQHrnXlttzVtYxbkfvRl+HWLwfz9KZzBZVgQ X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:48:20 -0000 Alvaro and Adrian:=20 It's nice to have you chime in on this draft. As IDR chair, may I ask = we remove the draft from the IESG agenda today. I'll need some = unpacking of your reasoning.=20 Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this = effort? =20 If you are looking to scrap the effort, I need additional details on = why. It has been discussed by SIDR, Grow and IDR to be valuable for the = BGP deployments. This draft provides reasoning for the SIDR work on AS = migration. Your reasoning is that the "mechanism that BGP = implementation can use to provide the behavior" below .. seems to = suggest it should not be documented. New BGP implementations are = arising in DC, Mobile backend networks, and Carriers that utilize these = features so interoperable features are necessary.=20 If you are looking for a complete rewrite, I'm happy to work with you, = Alvaro, Alia and the authors to find a new acceptable form of the = draft(s).=20 My understanding is that you want to split to: Informational Draft:=20 - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration,=20 - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers,=20 Mechanism (RFC)=20 - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the Behavior [mechanism in RFC]=20 - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in specific implementations [mechanism draft appendix, non-normative] =20 If this is your desire, I will be happy to take this back to the authors = and the WG to create this draft.=20 Sue =20 -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:26 AM To: The IESG Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: = (with COMMENT) Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form. My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor = edits would be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the = document and considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm = to start again. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the = document to return to the working group. Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be = published in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes. The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if = you are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update = the document. (Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.) The documentseems to address four topics: - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the behavior - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in specific implementations As Alvaro wrote: > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to=20 > document de facto standards for future implementations and so that new = > features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not=20 > expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the=20 > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead=20 > of Standard? I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive = requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, = but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is = no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this = information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it = might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators = expectations about mechanisms that should be used within = implementations. I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation = report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no = explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, = described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not = documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives = the false impression that the three implementations described are the = benchmark for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material = to an appendix or a separate implementation document, but as the authors = note, much or all of the information can be found on the websites of the = companies concerned, and I think that is where it should stay. [Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration". That = may be a better solution to all of our problems!] Here are the minor comments and nits... o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's access circuit." =20 =20 This information is not needed and may change at any time after the publication of this document. You have made the point about utilization: you can drop this text. o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. =20 =20 It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used. o Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" results in eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that already went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops. =20 To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as" config, but I think that it would be important to describe the potential risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration or in the Security section. o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP Open Message. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the field in the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY ASN). This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2. o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is mentioned.. Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad = Peer AS". =20 o Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about "updates", but the official name is "UPDATE". Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is important to be clear about what is being specified. =20 =20 In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update as normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute before advertising the UPDATE". o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation. While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail beyond the scope of this document, the following consideration may be helpful for implementers Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may" and that really calls its value into question. o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in the text to keep a logical flow. o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:51:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E802E1A8781; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XlsXRMCWuoQT; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D8C1A8795; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219145110.17247.67153.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:10 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Telechat update notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:51:13 -0000 Removed from agenda for telechat ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:51:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 19E0B1A8795; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:13 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E802E1A8781; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XlsXRMCWuoQT; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D8C1A8795; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.11.0.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150219145110.17247.67153.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:51:10 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Telechat update notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:51:13 -0000 Removed from agenda for telechat ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:54:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9177B1A001C; 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d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/mVKIWyDxUxFlUCDw4kOKfFeS7/yYPUpFs3eOmNYPV0=; b=j5h8z9meYaGnK7ooaTkvGgaQSmTQgZ6PwgzYlz39algaeYF6Qwt/DWJgyTxuJBXRx7 6JttzFpSn9OCa+lDrm853OFTQfII5MQcDE8azxi+nbZSzl0JIxEukG651HbXwXrOAF/Y DAsb1x1oPlYb+s4TPxGBeKYcVwYeAA07Wdx92rvpisyN/g3fQHNiNy2X9x6qul9IKQLW zfKfl+1Pnhm7VAtczfA0RULDNgJ41zoZOrnxdTqiyAGdFfKT2vVihrJHM9OZ9PzUH6Z5 f252nsn9RqywXTPqQY2mvW7Mktpu2GXTyMERA2i+8is/xl3MZKBtng9cP5CS3Zw11Gje QkMw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.42.211 with SMTP id q19mr3180932oel.58.1424357644363; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.94.20 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, "idr@ietf. org" , idr-chairs@ietf.org, Chris Morrow , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:54:13 -0000 --089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Sue, On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alvaro and Adrian: > > It's nice to have you chime in on this draft. As IDR chair, may I ask we > remove the draft from the IESG agenda today. I'll need some unpacking of > your reasoning. > I have removed it from today's telechat. > Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this effort? > I would like to see a major rewrite - though not as strongly as Alvaro and Adrian feel. > If you are looking to scrap the effort, I need additional details on why. > It has been discussed by SIDR, Grow and IDR to be valuable for the BGP > deployments. This draft provides reasoning for the SIDR work on AS > migration. Your reasoning is that the "mechanism that BGP implementation > can use to provide the behavior" below .. seems to suggest it should not be > documented. New BGP implementations are arising in DC, Mobile backend > networks, and Carriers that utilize these features so interoperable > features are necessary. > > If you are looking for a complete rewrite, I'm happy to work with you, > Alvaro, Alia and the authors to find a new acceptable form of the draft(s). > > My understanding is that you want to split to: > > Informational Draft: > - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration, > - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers, > > Mechanism (RFC) > - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the > Behavior [mechanism in RFC] > - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in > specific implementations [mechanism draft appendix, non-normative] > I'm far from convinced that it needs to be two drafts. I would like to see it more clearly divided into clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving out the vendor specifics (in an appendix if truly necessary). Regards, Alia If this is your desire, I will be happy to take this back to the authors > and the WG to create this draft. > > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:26 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org > Subject: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with > COMMENT) > > Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form. > My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor edits > would be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the document > and considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm to start > again. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the document to return > to the working group. > > Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be > published in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes. > > The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if > you are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update the > document. > > (Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.) > > > The documentseems to address four topics: > - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration > - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers > - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the > behavior > - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in > specific implementations > > As Alvaro wrote: > > > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > > document de facto standards for future implementations and so that new > > features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not > > expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the > > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead > > of Standard? > > I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive > requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. > > The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, > but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is no > requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this > information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it might > tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators expectations about > mechanisms that should be used within implementations. > > I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation > report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no > explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, > described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not > documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives the > false impression that the three implementations described are the benchmark > for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material to an appendix > or a separate implementation document, but as the authors note, much or all > of the information can be found on the websites of the companies concerned, > and I think that is where it should stay. > > [Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration". That > may be a better solution to all of our problems!] > > > Here are the minor comments and nits... > > o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater > of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month > period, on the customer's access circuit." > > This information is not needed and may change at any time after the > publication of this document. You have made the point about > utilization: you can drop this text. > > o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When > explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. > > It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used. > > o Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" results in > eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN > 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated > yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that already > went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops. > > To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the > New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as" config, > but I think that it would be important to describe the potential > risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration > or in the Security section. > > o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP > Open Message. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that > the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the field in > the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY ASN). > This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2. > > o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is mentioned.. > Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad > Peer AS". > > o Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about "updates", but the > official name is "UPDATE". Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is > important to be clear about what is being specified. > > In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update as > normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute > before advertising the UPDATE". > > o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation. > > While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail beyond the > scope of this document, the following consideration may be helpful > for implementers > > Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may" and that > really calls its value into question. > > o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being > migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would > like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in > the text to keep a logical flow. > > o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices > > > > --089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,



On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Susan= Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
Alvaro and= Adrian:

It's nice to have you chime in on this draft.=C2=A0 As IDR chair, may I= ask we remove the draft from the IESG agenda today.=C2=A0 I'll need so= me unpacking of your reasoning.

I have = removed it from today's telechat.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this effort?<= br>

I would like to see a major rewrite - t= hough not as strongly as Alvaro and Adrian feel.=C2=A0

=
=C2=A0
If you are looking to scrap the effort, I need additional details on why.= =C2=A0 It has been discussed by SIDR, Grow and IDR to be valuable for the B= GP deployments. This draft provides reasoning for the SIDR work on AS migra= tion.=C2=A0 Your reasoning is that the "mechanism that BGP implementat= ion can use to provide the behavior" below .. seems to suggest it shou= ld not be documented.=C2=A0 New BGP implementations are arising in DC, Mobi= le backend networks, and Carriers that utilize these features so interopera= ble features are necessary.

If you are looking for a complete rewrite, I'm happy to work with you, = Alvaro, Alia and the authors to find a new acceptable form of the draft(s).=

My understanding is that you want to split to:

Informational Draft:
- Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration,
- Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers,

Mechanism (RFC)
- Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide = the
=C2=A0 Behavior [mechanism in RFC]
- Description of the mechanisms and configuration options = contained in
=C2=A0 specific implementations [mechanism draft appendix, non-norma= tive]

I'm far from convinced that i= t needs to be two drafts.=C2=A0 I would like to see it more clearly divided= into
clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving= out the vendor specifics (in an appendix
if truly necessary).

Regards,
Alia

If this is your desire, I will be happy to take this back to the authors an= d the WG to create this draft.

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@o= lddog.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:26 AM
To: The IESG
Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; <= a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org
Subject: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (wi= th COMMENT)

Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email= addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc= tory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit= eria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration= /



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form.
My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor edits w= ould be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the document a= nd considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm to start aga= in. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the document to return to= the working group.

Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be publishe= d in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes.

The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if yo= u are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update the do= cument.

(Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.)<= br>

The documentseems to address four topics:
- Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration
- Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers
- Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the
=C2=A0 behavior
- Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in
=C2=A0 specific implementations

As Alvaro wrote:

> o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > document de facto standards for future implementations and so that new=
> features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not
> expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the
> existing ones).=C2=A0 My question is: should this be Informational ins= tead
> of Standard?

I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive requirements= text. They are good to publish as Informational.

The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, but= the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is no requ= irement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this information= is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it might tend to redu= ce innovation and give vendors and operators expectations about mechanisms = that should be used within implementations.

I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation repo= rt and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no explicit= analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, described,= there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not documenting the mech= anisms in other implementations, the document gives the false impression th= at the three implementations described are the benchmark for AS migration. = It might be possible to move this material to an appendix or a separate imp= lementation document, but as the authors note, much or all of the informati= on can be found on the websites of the companies concerned, and I think tha= t is where it should stay.

[Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration"= ;. That may be a better solution to all of our problems!]


Here are the minor comments and nits...

o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater
=C2=A0 of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month
=C2=A0 period, on the customer's access circuit."

=C2=A0 This information is not needed and may change at any time after the<= br> =C2=A0 publication of this document. You have made the point about
=C2=A0 utilization: you can drop this text.

o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When
=C2=A0 explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead.

=C2=A0 It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used.

o Potential loops!=C2=A0 Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" r= esults in
=C2=A0 eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN
=C2=A0 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrat= ed
=C2=A0 yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that alread= y
=C2=A0 went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops.

=C2=A0 To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the =C2=A0 New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as&quo= t; config,
=C2=A0 but I think that it would be important to describe the potential
=C2=A0 risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration<= br> =C2=A0 or in the Security section.

o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP =C2=A0 Open Message.=C2=A0 However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so= that
=C2=A0 the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the fi= eld in
=C2=A0 the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY = ASN).
=C2=A0 This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2.

o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is menti= oned..
=C2=A0 Again, no reference and wrong name.=C2=A0 The name used in rfc4271 i= s=C2=A0 "Bad Peer AS".

o Other rfc4271 related nits..=C2=A0 The draft talks about "updates&qu= ot;, but the
=C2=A0 official name is "UPDATE".=C2=A0 Yes, maybe OCD, but I thi= nk it is
=C2=A0 important to be clear about what is being specified.

=C2=A0 In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update a= s
=C2=A0 normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribu= te
=C2=A0 before advertising the UPDATE".

o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail bey= ond the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0scope of this document, the following consideration may be hel= pful
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for implementers

=C2=A0 Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may"= and that
=C2=A0 really calls its value into question.

o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being
=C2=A0 migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would=
=C2=A0 like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in<= br> =C2=A0 the text to keep a logical flow.

o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices




--089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:54:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id C36311A0019; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:13 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9177B1A001C; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nPIDRgilkQ4h; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x236.google.com (mail-ob0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D3931A0019; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id nt9so14684767obb.13; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/mVKIWyDxUxFlUCDw4kOKfFeS7/yYPUpFs3eOmNYPV0=; b=j5h8z9meYaGnK7ooaTkvGgaQSmTQgZ6PwgzYlz39algaeYF6Qwt/DWJgyTxuJBXRx7 6JttzFpSn9OCa+lDrm853OFTQfII5MQcDE8azxi+nbZSzl0JIxEukG651HbXwXrOAF/Y DAsb1x1oPlYb+s4TPxGBeKYcVwYeAA07Wdx92rvpisyN/g3fQHNiNy2X9x6qul9IKQLW zfKfl+1Pnhm7VAtczfA0RULDNgJ41zoZOrnxdTqiyAGdFfKT2vVihrJHM9OZ9PzUH6Z5 f252nsn9RqywXTPqQY2mvW7Mktpu2GXTyMERA2i+8is/xl3MZKBtng9cP5CS3Zw11Gje QkMw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.42.211 with SMTP id q19mr3180932oel.58.1424357644363; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.94.20 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, "idr@ietf. org" , idr-chairs@ietf.org, Chris Morrow , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:54:13 -0000 --089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Sue, On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alvaro and Adrian: > > It's nice to have you chime in on this draft. As IDR chair, may I ask we > remove the draft from the IESG agenda today. I'll need some unpacking of > your reasoning. > I have removed it from today's telechat. > Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this effort? > I would like to see a major rewrite - though not as strongly as Alvaro and Adrian feel. > If you are looking to scrap the effort, I need additional details on why. > It has been discussed by SIDR, Grow and IDR to be valuable for the BGP > deployments. This draft provides reasoning for the SIDR work on AS > migration. Your reasoning is that the "mechanism that BGP implementation > can use to provide the behavior" below .. seems to suggest it should not be > documented. New BGP implementations are arising in DC, Mobile backend > networks, and Carriers that utilize these features so interoperable > features are necessary. > > If you are looking for a complete rewrite, I'm happy to work with you, > Alvaro, Alia and the authors to find a new acceptable form of the draft(s). > > My understanding is that you want to split to: > > Informational Draft: > - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration, > - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers, > > Mechanism (RFC) > - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the > Behavior [mechanism in RFC] > - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in > specific implementations [mechanism draft appendix, non-normative] > I'm far from convinced that it needs to be two drafts. I would like to see it more clearly divided into clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving out the vendor specifics (in an appendix if truly necessary). Regards, Alia If this is your desire, I will be happy to take this back to the authors > and the WG to create this draft. > > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:26 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org > Subject: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with > COMMENT) > > Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form. > My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor edits > would be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the document > and considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm to start > again. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the document to return > to the working group. > > Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be > published in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes. > > The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if > you are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update the > document. > > (Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.) > > > The documentseems to address four topics: > - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration > - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers > - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the > behavior > - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in > specific implementations > > As Alvaro wrote: > > > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > > document de facto standards for future implementations and so that new > > features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not > > expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the > > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead > > of Standard? > > I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive > requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. > > The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, > but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is no > requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this > information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it might > tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators expectations about > mechanisms that should be used within implementations. > > I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation > report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no > explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, > described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not > documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives the > false impression that the three implementations described are the benchmark > for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material to an appendix > or a separate implementation document, but as the authors note, much or all > of the information can be found on the websites of the companies concerned, > and I think that is where it should stay. > > [Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration". That > may be a better solution to all of our problems!] > > > Here are the minor comments and nits... > > o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater > of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month > period, on the customer's access circuit." > > This information is not needed and may change at any time after the > publication of this document. You have made the point about > utilization: you can drop this text. > > o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When > explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead. > > It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used. > > o Potential loops! Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" results in > eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN > 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrated > yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that already > went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops. > > To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the > New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as" config, > but I think that it would be important to describe the potential > risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration > or in the Security section. > > o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP > Open Message. However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so that > the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the field in > the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY ASN). > This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2. > > o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is mentioned.. > Again, no reference and wrong name. The name used in rfc4271 is "Bad > Peer AS". > > o Other rfc4271 related nits.. The draft talks about "updates", but the > official name is "UPDATE". Yes, maybe OCD, but I think it is > important to be clear about what is being specified. > > In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update as > normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribute > before advertising the UPDATE". > > o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation. > > While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail beyond the > scope of this document, the following consideration may be helpful > for implementers > > Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may" and that > really calls its value into question. > > o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being > migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would > like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in > the text to keep a logical flow. > > o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices > > > > --089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,



On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Susan= Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
Alvaro and= Adrian:

It's nice to have you chime in on this draft.=C2=A0 As IDR chair, may I= ask we remove the draft from the IESG agenda today.=C2=A0 I'll need so= me unpacking of your reasoning.

I have = removed it from today's telechat.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this effort?<= br>

I would like to see a major rewrite - t= hough not as strongly as Alvaro and Adrian feel.=C2=A0

=
=C2=A0
If you are looking to scrap the effort, I need additional details on why.= =C2=A0 It has been discussed by SIDR, Grow and IDR to be valuable for the B= GP deployments. This draft provides reasoning for the SIDR work on AS migra= tion.=C2=A0 Your reasoning is that the "mechanism that BGP implementat= ion can use to provide the behavior" below .. seems to suggest it shou= ld not be documented.=C2=A0 New BGP implementations are arising in DC, Mobi= le backend networks, and Carriers that utilize these features so interopera= ble features are necessary.

If you are looking for a complete rewrite, I'm happy to work with you, = Alvaro, Alia and the authors to find a new acceptable form of the draft(s).=

My understanding is that you want to split to:

Informational Draft:
- Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration,
- Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers,

Mechanism (RFC)
- Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide = the
=C2=A0 Behavior [mechanism in RFC]
- Description of the mechanisms and configuration options = contained in
=C2=A0 specific implementations [mechanism draft appendix, non-norma= tive]

I'm far from convinced that i= t needs to be two drafts.=C2=A0 I would like to see it more clearly divided= into
clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving= out the vendor specifics (in an appendix
if truly necessary).

Regards,
Alia

If this is your desire, I will be happy to take this back to the authors an= d the WG to create this draft.

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@o= lddog.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:26 AM
To: The IESG
Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; <= a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org
Subject: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (wi= th COMMENT)

Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: Abstain

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email= addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc= tory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit= eria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration= /



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot support the publication of this document in its current form.
My issues could possibly be resolved, but I do not think that minor edits w= ould be enough, and I suspect that after the work to produce the document a= nd considering WG and IETF consensus, there will be enthusiasm to start aga= in. resolving my concerns would, I think, require the document to return to= the working group.

Since I do not feel strongly enough that this document MUST NOT be publishe= d in this form, I will not use my Discuss to insist on changes.

The notes below are provided to help you understand my reasoning and, if yo= u are minded to agree with me, to help you think about how to update the do= cument.

(Some of the nits come from a "training review" done by Alvaro.)<= br>

The documentseems to address four topics:
- Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration
- Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers
- Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the
=C2=A0 behavior
- Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in
=C2=A0 specific implementations

As Alvaro wrote:

> o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > document de facto standards for future implementations and so that new=
> features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is not
> expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the
> existing ones).=C2=A0 My question is: should this be Informational ins= tead
> of Standard?

I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive requirements= text. They are good to publish as Informational.

The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, but= the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is no requ= irement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this information= is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it might tend to redu= ce innovation and give vendors and operators expectations about mechanisms = that should be used within implementations.

I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation repo= rt and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no explicit= analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, described,= there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not documenting the mech= anisms in other implementations, the document gives the false impression th= at the three implementations described are the benchmark for AS migration. = It might be possible to move this material to an appendix or a separate imp= lementation document, but as the authors note, much or all of the informati= on can be found on the websites of the companies concerned, and I think tha= t is where it should stay.

[Please note that twice, while typing this, I wrote "AD migration"= ;. That may be a better solution to all of our problems!]


Here are the minor comments and nits...

o "ISPs bill customers based on the 95th percentile of the greater
=C2=A0 of the traffic sent or received, over the course of a 1-month
=C2=A0 period, on the customer's access circuit."

=C2=A0 This information is not needed and may change at any time after the<= br> =C2=A0 publication of this document. You have made the point about
=C2=A0 utilization: you can drop this text.

o The use case figres, Fig 1 and 2, show customers C and D. When
=C2=A0 explaining the features, CE-A and CE-B are used instead.

=C2=A0 It would make it easier to follow if the same names were used.

o Potential loops!=C2=A0 Using "local-as no-prepend replace-as" r= esults in
=C2=A0 eliminating an ASN from the AS_PATH (in the example, the Old_ADN
=C2=A0 64510 is eliminated). If other routers in ISP B have not been migrat= ed
=C2=A0 yet (very real possibility) then they may accept Updates that alread= y
=C2=A0 went through their ASN (64510) resulting in potential loops.

=C2=A0 To be fair, the text suggests that ISP B has been migrated to the =C2=A0 New_ASN before applying the "local-as no-prepend replace-as&quo= t; config,
=C2=A0 but I think that it would be important to describe the potential
=C2=A0 risk of using this feature - either as an Operational Consideration<= br> =C2=A0 or in the Security section.

o The text uses "MY ASN" to indicate the ASN number in the BGP =C2=A0 Open Message.=C2=A0 However, (1) there is no reference to rfc4271 so= that
=C2=A0 the reader understand what they're talking about, and (2) the fi= eld in
=C2=A0 the Open message is called "My Autonomous System" (not MY = ASN).
=C2=A0 This shows up in 3.3 and 4.2.

o Also in 3.3 (and 4.2), the Error Message "BAD PEER AS" is menti= oned..
=C2=A0 Again, no reference and wrong name.=C2=A0 The name used in rfc4271 i= s=C2=A0 "Bad Peer AS".

o Other rfc4271 related nits..=C2=A0 The draft talks about "updates&qu= ot;, but the
=C2=A0 official name is "UPDATE".=C2=A0 Yes, maybe OCD, but I thi= nk it is
=C2=A0 important to be clear about what is being specified.

=C2=A0 In some cases the use is mixed: "..it MUST process the update a= s
=C2=A0 normal, but it MUST append the configured ASN in the AS_PATH attribu= te
=C2=A0 before advertising the UPDATE".

o In 3.3 (last paragraph) the authors talk about the CLI implementation.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While the exact command syntax is an implementation detail bey= ond the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0scope of this document, the following consideration may be hel= pful
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for implementers

=C2=A0 Suggest to stay out of this completely. It is nested "may"= and that
=C2=A0 really calls its value into question.

o Because the external features (Section 3) assumes that the AS being
=C2=A0 migrated is already using the New_ASN before using local-as, I would=
=C2=A0 like to see the internal features (Section 4) be discussed first in<= br> =C2=A0 the text to keep a logical flow.

o 4.1: s/typically to PE devices/typically connected to PE devices




--089e0111dcc26cec66050f721b78-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 06:59:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158A11A883F; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:59:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30SEb5IpzoWN; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8C91A8820; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 06:59:26 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.92; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Randy Bush'" References: <005e01d04c49$ad2e9860$078bc920$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: <00d901d04c54$a12c8e40$e385aac0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJK187CqHrtHxQGy0IoA9qcdcpAOgKJNQbqAbF6uWCb4SGf4A== X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'idr wg' , 'Pete Resnick' , 'The IESG' Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnicks Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:59:28 -0000 Randy: Yes, if we revise this draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03 we should probably revise the second. As the reviewer of the draft-ietf-sidr-as-migration, I did not have the same concerns as Alvaro or Adrian. It would be good to get their input on these drafts. Sue -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:40 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: idr wg; Pete Resnick; The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnicks Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > We debated the bcp versus the rfc. The problem is that these behavior > change the fundamental assumptions that bgp in a way that impacts > sidr. and there is a corresponding, equally over-wordy, companion draft in sidr. randy _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Thu Feb 19 07:06:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F2D1A88BE; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:06:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id inqWC6ksYWKg; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1D0F1A907B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:05:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5693; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424358353; x=1425567953; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=FK4fAdO0yMO1CH0jMcMaVBH9YqpqjR5OO5rA+QQldaU=; b=V5PIsle6p0eh3/OWYKCiGQjUdthDLd1Ok3/GtF2jJ8RNW3wBDO1UwteN 8Xvso4m/LnM272ECemb3DuTOr35qd2EKcIxBB2t8MXazkZDJCXQFv1WBR jra7yI1iS99c1PlHWlyhvYCMLMsRlgFb9wyYrFr5iDssX+FLWhAtBq4g2 w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AaBQBa+uVU/4sNJK1bgkNDgSwEyFgCgSFDAQEBAQEBfIQQAQEEeRACAQgOMQchERQRAgQOBYgbAxHNUg2FOQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEBAQEBGYsPgkSCKgeEKgWEJYk2gXCHSDOBRo0chgYig25vgUR/AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,609,1418083200"; d="scan'208,217";a="397826078" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2015 15:05:53 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com [173.37.183.76]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1JF5qCI011002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:05:52 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.9.60]) by xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com ([173.37.183.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:05:52 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Susan Hares Thread-Topic: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQTE/7an4LcAKGCEuXhFr7LqAmhJz4ciAAgAABowD//69cAA== Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:05:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , Chris Morrow , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:06:37 -0000 --_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/19/15, 9:54 AM, "Alia Atlas" > wrote: Sue: Hi! I'm far from convinced that it needs to be two drafts. I would like to see= it more clearly divided into clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving out the vendor = specifics (in an appendix if truly necessary). I agree with that. In the comments that I sent Wes (on the list) I wrote: =3D=3D=3D What I think would have been nice is to describe the migration scenario and= functionality independent of the existing feature names first..and then sa= y =93BTW, the cisco features that do this are xxx..for Juniper yyy, etc.=94= . Talking about specific features creates expectations that further imple= mentations will do the exact same thing (specially when config snippets are= included): as in the functionality documented at the cisco site (for examp= le). =3D=3D=3D Sorry I wasn=92t paying enough attention before and this came so late in th= e process. Alvaro. --_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2/19/15, 9:54 AM, "Alia Atlas" <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

Sue:

Hi!

I'm far from convinced that it needs to be two drafts.  I would like t= o see it more clearly divided into
clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving out the vendor = specifics (in an appendix
if truly necessary).

I agree with that.  In the comments that I sent Wes (on the list) I wr= ote:

=3D=3D=3D
What I think would have been nice is to d= escribe the migration scenario and functionality independent of the existin= g feature names first..and then say =93BTW, the cisco features that do this= are xxx..for Juniper yyy, etc.=94.   Talking about specific features creates expectations that further implemen= tations will do the exact same thing (specially when config snippets a= re included): as in the functionality documented at the cisco site (for exa= mple).   
=3D=3D=3D

Sorry I wasn=92t paying enough&= nbsp;attention before and this came so late in the process.

Alvaro.
--_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 07:06:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 96A4F1A9047; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:06:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F2D1A88BE; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:06:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id inqWC6ksYWKg; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1D0F1A907B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:05:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5693; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424358353; x=1425567953; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=FK4fAdO0yMO1CH0jMcMaVBH9YqpqjR5OO5rA+QQldaU=; b=V5PIsle6p0eh3/OWYKCiGQjUdthDLd1Ok3/GtF2jJ8RNW3wBDO1UwteN 8Xvso4m/LnM272ECemb3DuTOr35qd2EKcIxBB2t8MXazkZDJCXQFv1WBR jra7yI1iS99c1PlHWlyhvYCMLMsRlgFb9wyYrFr5iDssX+FLWhAtBq4g2 w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AaBQBa+uVU/4sNJK1bgkNDgSwEyFgCgSFDAQEBAQEBfIQQAQEEeRACAQgOMQchERQRAgQOBYgbAxHNUg2FOQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEBAQEBGYsPgkSCKgeEKgWEJYk2gXCHSDOBRo0chgYig25vgUR/AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,609,1418083200"; d="scan'208,217";a="397826078" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2015 15:05:53 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com [173.37.183.76]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1JF5qCI011002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:05:52 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.9.60]) by xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com ([173.37.183.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:05:52 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Susan Hares Thread-Topic: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQTE/7an4LcAKGCEuXhFr7LqAmhJz4ciAAgAABowD//69cAA== Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:05:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , Chris Morrow , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:06:37 -0000 --_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/19/15, 9:54 AM, "Alia Atlas" > wrote: Sue: Hi! I'm far from convinced that it needs to be two drafts. I would like to see= it more clearly divided into clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving out the vendor = specifics (in an appendix if truly necessary). I agree with that. In the comments that I sent Wes (on the list) I wrote: =3D=3D=3D What I think would have been nice is to describe the migration scenario and= functionality independent of the existing feature names first..and then sa= y =93BTW, the cisco features that do this are xxx..for Juniper yyy, etc.=94= . Talking about specific features creates expectations that further imple= mentations will do the exact same thing (specially when config snippets are= included): as in the functionality documented at the cisco site (for examp= le). =3D=3D=3D Sorry I wasn=92t paying enough attention before and this came so late in th= e process. Alvaro. --_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2/19/15, 9:54 AM, "Alia Atlas" <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

Sue:

Hi!

I'm far from convinced that it needs to be two drafts.  I would like t= o see it more clearly divided into
clear requirements, specific required behavior, and leaving out the vendor = specifics (in an appendix
if truly necessary).

I agree with that.  In the comments that I sent Wes (on the list) I wr= ote:

=3D=3D=3D
What I think would have been nice is to d= escribe the migration scenario and functionality independent of the existin= g feature names first..and then say =93BTW, the cisco features that do this= are xxx..for Juniper yyy, etc.=94.   Talking about specific features creates expectations that further implemen= tations will do the exact same thing (specially when config snippets a= re included): as in the functionality documented at the cisco site (for exa= mple).   
=3D=3D=3D

Sorry I wasn=92t paying enough&= nbsp;attention before and this came so late in the process.

Alvaro.
--_000_D10B64A197B0Faretanaciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Feb 19 09:41:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05C11A1B3A; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I11OgeCb7yOr; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdpipgw02.twcable.com (cdpipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.59.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BE11A1AC6; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:55 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.14 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,609,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="654547009" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.14]) by cdpipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 19 Feb 2015 12:30:16 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.14]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:40:54 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Susan Hares , 'Alissa Cooper' Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:40:53 -0500 Thread-Topic: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdBMazXIoGKu7L7hSyGWYNM/i4s7og== Message-ID: References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , "idr@ietf.org" , 'IESG' , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:40:59 -0000 DQpUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGlzIHdyaXR0ZW4gYnkgdHdvIG9wZXJhdG9ycywgZG9jdW1lbnRpbmcg dGhlIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsDQppc3N1ZSB0aGF0IG1ha2VzIHRoaXMgZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0eSBpbXBv cnRhbnQgIHdoaWNoIGluIHR1cm4gZHJvdmUgdGhlbSB0bw0Kd3JpdGUgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LiBU aGVyZWZvcmUgSSBkbyB0aGluayB0aGF0IGl0J3MgaW1wb3J0YW50IHRvIGRyYXcgdGhlDQpjb25u ZWN0aW9uIGJldHdlZW4gQXMtUGF0aCBsZW5ndGhlbmluZyBhbmQgcmV2ZW51ZSBsb3NzLCBhcyB0 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ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVy IGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBwZXJtYW5lbnRseSBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGFuZCBhbnkg Y29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHByaW50b3V0Lg0K From nobody Thu Feb 19 09:41:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 347861A1B9B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05C11A1B3A; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I11OgeCb7yOr; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdpipgw02.twcable.com (cdpipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.59.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BE11A1AC6; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:40:55 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.14 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,609,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="654547009" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.14]) by cdpipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 19 Feb 2015 12:30:16 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.14]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:40:54 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Susan Hares , 'Alissa Cooper' Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:40:53 -0500 Thread-Topic: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdBMazXIoGKu7L7hSyGWYNM/i4s7og== Message-ID: References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , "idr@ietf.org" , 'IESG' , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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aXMgaW50ZW5kZWQgc29sZWx5IGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIG9yIGVudGl0 eSB0byB3aGljaCBpdCBpcyBhZGRyZXNzZWQuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCBy ZWNpcGllbnQgb2YgdGhpcyBFLW1haWwsIHlvdSBhcmUgaGVyZWJ5IG5vdGlmaWVkIHRoYXQgYW55 IGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiwgY29weWluZywgb3IgYWN0aW9uIHRha2VuIGlu IHJlbGF0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiBhbmQgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgdG8gdGhpcyBFLW1h aWwgaXMgc3RyaWN0bHkgcHJvaGliaXRlZCBhbmQgbWF5IGJlIHVubGF3ZnVsLiBJZiB5b3UgaGF2 ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVy IGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBwZXJtYW5lbnRseSBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGFuZCBhbnkg Y29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHByaW50b3V0Lg0K From nobody Thu Feb 19 11:24:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249F81A003A; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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14:23:50 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Pete Resnick , The IESG Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:23:49 -0500 Thread-Topic: Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdBMeZaxCeAaK7CMSQyKwka6lMrmmQ== Message-ID: References: <20150219043634.31970.79925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219043634.31970.79925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , 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dGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGFuZCBhbnkgY29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHByaW50 b3V0Lg0K From nobody Thu Feb 19 11:24:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 43DAF1A0089; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249F81A003A; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uMSSgi0Opn0l; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdcipgw01.twcable.com (cdcipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.91.110]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708D01A0089; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:23:51 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.14 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,610,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="264162069" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.14]) by cdcipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 19 Feb 2015 14:18:10 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.14]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:23:50 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Pete Resnick , The IESG Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:23:49 -0500 Thread-Topic: Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdBMeZaxCeAaK7CMSQyKwka6lMrmmQ== Message-ID: References: <20150219043634.31970.79925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219043634.31970.79925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] Pete Resnick's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:24:19 -0000 DQpPbiAyLzE4LzE1LCAxMTozNiBQTSwgIlBldGUgUmVzbmljayIgPHByZXNuaWNrQHF0aS5xdWFs Y29tbS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t 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b25maWRlbnRpYWwsIG9yIHN1YmplY3QgdG8gY29weXJpZ2h0IGJlbG9uZ2luZyB0byBUaW1lIFdh cm5lciBDYWJsZS4gVGhpcyBFLW1haWwgaXMgaW50ZW5kZWQgc29sZWx5IGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9m IHRoZSBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIG9yIGVudGl0eSB0byB3aGljaCBpdCBpcyBhZGRyZXNzZWQuIElmIHlv dSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQgb2YgdGhpcyBFLW1haWwsIHlvdSBhcmUg aGVyZWJ5IG5vdGlmaWVkIHRoYXQgYW55IGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiwgY29w eWluZywgb3IgYWN0aW9uIHRha2VuIGluIHJlbGF0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiBhbmQg YXR0YWNobWVudHMgdG8gdGhpcyBFLW1haWwgaXMgc3RyaWN0bHkgcHJvaGliaXRlZCBhbmQgbWF5 IGJlIHVubGF3ZnVsLiBJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwg cGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBwZXJtYW5lbnRseSBkZWxl dGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGFuZCBhbnkgY29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHByaW50 b3V0Lg0K From nobody Thu Feb 19 13:54:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753C31A033B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgjEh6XeD9Lt; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A1631A032D; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YOZ39-0006Yp-4O; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 21:54:23 +0000 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 06:54:20 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "George, Wes" In-Reply-To: References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , 'Alissa Cooper' , "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , 'IESG' , Susan Hares Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 21:54:32 -0000 > This document is written by two operators, documenting the operational > issue that makes this functionality important which in turn drove them > to write the document. Therefore I do think that it's important to > draw the connection between As-Path lengthening and revenue loss, as > this is the business reality. i am an operator. i do not support this statement. randy From nobody Thu Feb 19 13:54:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 9E50E1A034C; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753C31A033B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgjEh6XeD9Lt; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A1631A032D; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YOZ39-0006Yp-4O; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 21:54:23 +0000 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 06:54:20 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "George, Wes" In-Reply-To: References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , 'Alissa Cooper' , "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , 'IESG' , Susan Hares Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 21:54:32 -0000 > This document is written by two operators, documenting the operational > issue that makes this functionality important which in turn drove them > to write the document. Therefore I do think that it's important to > draw the connection between As-Path lengthening and revenue loss, as > this is the business reality. i am an operator. i do not support this statement. randy From nobody Thu Feb 19 14:36:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB731A19FA for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:35:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UlO6kA62kHyk for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 672421A1A03 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-To: Received: from cupcake.foobar.org (xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t1JMZn2i072115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:35:50 GMT (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.netability.ie: Host xe-0-0-2.transit07.phb1.foobar.org [87.192.56.84] claimed to be cupcake.foobar.org Message-ID: <54E66542.5060901@foobar.org> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:35:46 +0000 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:35:57 -0000 On 19/02/2015 21:54, Randy Bush wrote: > On 19/02/2015 17:40, George, Wes wrote: 1. >> This document is written by two operators 2. >> documenting the operational issue that makes this functionality important 3. >> which in turn drove them to write the document. 4. >> Therefore I do think that it's important to draw the connection between As-Path lengthening and revenue loss 5. >> as this is the business reality. > i am an operator. i do not support this statement. not meaning to pick nits, but which statement? Nick From nobody Thu Feb 19 14:42:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A9E1A001B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:42:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVS9_gpfMCIZ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [198.180.150.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F8761A0007; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YOZnE-0006ry-JC; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:42:01 +0000 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:41:58 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Wes George In-Reply-To: References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: Chris Morrow , idr wg , Alissa Cooper , IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:42:05 -0000 >> This document is written by two operators, documenting the operational >> issue that makes this functionality important which in turn drove them >> to write the document. Therefore I do think that it's important to >> draw the connection between As-Path lengthening and revenue loss, as >> this is the business reality. > > i am an operator. i do not support this statement. after my first cuppa, allow me to expand. when this doc first came out, i asked, with negligible success, it be put on a radical diet. so i thought what the heck, i have bigger fish to fry. same for it's mate over in sidr, which is the one about which i care more. but it seems the iesg has reached a similar conclusion. so let me try to suggest how. we all agree the hack needs to be documented, you do not need to sell or otherwise motivate it. to accomplish x you need to do y. fertig. so get all the non technical stuff out. and i mean all. if you need to save the immortal prose, publish it as a ripe series ops doc (and if you say bcop i will puke). try a gedanken experiment of seeing how little you can say to convey the hack to the vendor and the op who has to configure it. i bet you can get it down to 3-4 pages excluding ietf boilerplate. think of it like code, the more of it there is the more room for bugs. college years our roomies were at iit architecture, the mies school. less is more. randy From nobody Thu Feb 19 16:29:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABB71A1AA4; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Wr7BiLU2BLz; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdcipgw02.twcable.com (cdcipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.91.111]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687481A0387; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:28 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.15 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,611,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="219893215" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB06.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.15]) by cdcipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 19 Feb 2015 19:19:41 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB06.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.15]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:29:27 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Adrian Farrel , The IESG Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:29:24 -0500 Thread-Topic: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdBMpEf0u/QHNA/ZR+eaM7XDxdzQ7Q== Message-ID: References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 00:29:31 -0000 U25pcHBlZCB3aGVyZSBwb3NzaWJsZS4NCk15IGNvbW1lbnRzIGJlbG93IGlubGluZSB3aXRoIFdH XQ0KDQpPbiAyLzE5LzE1LCA5OjI1IEFNLCAiQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCIgPGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cu Y28udWs+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQoNCg0KPlRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBzZWVtcyB0byBhZGRyZXNzIGZvdXIg dG9waWNzOg0KPi0gUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvciBhbmQgY2lyY3Vtc3RhbmNlcyBvZiBBUyBtaWdy YXRpb24NCj4tIEJlaGF2aW9yIG5lZWRlZCBmcm9tIGEgQkdQIHN5c3RlbSB3aGVuIG1pZ3JhdGlu 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expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 712731A1AA6; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABB71A1AA4; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Wr7BiLU2BLz; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdcipgw02.twcable.com (cdcipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.91.111]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687481A0387; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:29:28 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.15 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,611,1418101200"; d="scan'208";a="219893215" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB06.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.15]) by cdcipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 19 Feb 2015 19:19:41 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB06.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.15]) with mapi; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:29:27 -0500 From: "George, Wes" To: Adrian Farrel , The IESG Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 19:29:24 -0500 Thread-Topic: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdBMpEf0u/QHNA/ZR+eaM7XDxdzQ7Q== Message-ID: References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 00:29:31 -0000 U25pcHBlZCB3aGVyZSBwb3NzaWJsZS4NCk15IGNvbW1lbnRzIGJlbG93IGlubGluZSB3aXRoIFdH XQ0KDQpPbiAyLzE5LzE1LCA5OjI1IEFNLCAiQWRyaWFuIEZhcnJlbCIgPGFkcmlhbkBvbGRkb2cu Y28udWs+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQoNCg0KPlRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBzZWVtcyB0byBhZGRyZXNzIGZvdXIg dG9waWNzOg0KPi0gUmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvciBhbmQgY2lyY3Vtc3RhbmNlcyBvZiBBUyBtaWdy 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2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF8B1A1B40 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eYVqWSCHPvd1 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D88B1A1B23 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023F120D0C for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:54:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= mesmtp; bh=3DI90FaM9lsqCmTIbGgqNIGyC58=; b=3C7ObTWY2EVMeaEWfcVB3 AtMcP3Arf4re9lkSu/5Pmvl4wMnPnVaM2uYO0HCzT+IwHr0J328po64IVuQcMthp cPq7Bvuuabg9hHCJ61yOKexlrZ/EsLYB3cZdyWSL9diaT/DhGpZesn/3NriQqvsO S5g0OtN1r6DJmQ8bXLqWRw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to; s=smtpout; bh=3DI90FaM9lsqCmTIbGgqNIG yC58=; b=B8BqjB6o9M+46gAkgGAQXp+O9zVUhSw9slByw6KGVX9wrFboICeMRhO qXO6xJlLvQvTKqfqjBzEFKSOFVhwHiKwmqXglABSATNhRvwo49iKvaZVUVRVQcZM tDhN/na1gMB59W7ZGTreN/FAtMEnCvEHeFndTs2cjJKuc53SEPog= X-Sasl-enc: 2Fw90yIeGj/2QJynh4/L1CWz5Z+ql5Pxb062/0mjM2L0 1424397273 Received: from sjc-alcoop-8817.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.234]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 93857C00297; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:54:31 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:29 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <90956FE2-34D9-4F8F-AD30-C873D505AE30@cooperw.in> References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, IESG , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 01:54:37 -0000 On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alissa: >=20 > OK - I can work with Wes to restate the text in a better way in = section 9. > Alia had some comments about the technical nature to beef up that = section. =20 Thanks. >=20 > On, section 1 was it this set of sentences that caused you to be = concerned? >=20 >=20 > In addition, it is common practice in the industry > for ISPs to bill customers based on utilization. ISPs bill = customers > based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or > received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's > access circuit. Given that the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects > routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, it is critical that the > ISP does not increase AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration > toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers, who = are > likely sending or receiving traffic from those transit customers. > This would not only result in sudden changes in traffic patterns in > the network, but also substantially decrease utilization driven > revenue at the ISP. >=20 > If so, can you unpack more details on what concerned you? I think Randy=92s comment sort of summed up my feeling on this. Of = course there are business realities, but the RFC series doesn=92t exist = to document them, to the benefit of Internet engineering (IMO). In any event, I said I was able to hold my nose about this bit in Sec 1 = and I meant it, so it=92s up to your discretion as to whether you want = to make changes here. Alissa >=20 > Sue=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:50 PM > To: Susan Hares > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; IESG; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) >=20 > On Feb 18, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Susan Hares wrote: >=20 >> Alissa:=20 >>=20 >> Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this = section? > Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of business that = can > happen? This specification is documenting what exists in real = networks with > real costs.=20 >>=20 >> What causes you to hold your nose? =20 >=20 > Sure. If anything that causes any entity to lose (or gain) revenue can = be > considered a security issue, we would likely end up doing a lot of = strange > things in protocol design in the name of "security." Furthermore, one > entity's loss can often be another's gain, where neither entity would = be > considered an attacker in the sense of perpetrating an attack a la RFC = 4949. > So I think it makes a lot more sense to focus security considerations = on > technical threats and mitigations and not consider any particular = party's > potential loss of revenue in and of itself as a security threat.=20 >=20 > Alissa >=20 >>=20 >> Sue=20 >>=20 >> -------- >>=20 >> The text: below:=20 >>=20 >> "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based = on > measured utilization >> of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >>=20 >> Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue = is a > slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose > for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems > particularly ill-advised. >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can = happen? > What causes you to hold your nose?=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> These =20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in]=20 >> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org >> Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: > (with COMMENT) >>=20 >> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Section 9: >> "This could result in a >> loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization >> of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >>=20 >> Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue = is a > slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose > for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems > particularly ill-advised. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 From nobody Thu Feb 19 17:54:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 28F3A1A1B40; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107AC1A1B23 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PNJuCUm0JWZE for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DAD71A1B25 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DD720D08 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:54:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= mesmtp; bh=3DI90FaM9lsqCmTIbGgqNIGyC58=; b=3C7ObTWY2EVMeaEWfcVB3 AtMcP3Arf4re9lkSu/5Pmvl4wMnPnVaM2uYO0HCzT+IwHr0J328po64IVuQcMthp cPq7Bvuuabg9hHCJ61yOKexlrZ/EsLYB3cZdyWSL9diaT/DhGpZesn/3NriQqvsO S5g0OtN1r6DJmQ8bXLqWRw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to; s=smtpout; bh=3DI90FaM9lsqCmTIbGgqNIG yC58=; b=B8BqjB6o9M+46gAkgGAQXp+O9zVUhSw9slByw6KGVX9wrFboICeMRhO qXO6xJlLvQvTKqfqjBzEFKSOFVhwHiKwmqXglABSATNhRvwo49iKvaZVUVRVQcZM tDhN/na1gMB59W7ZGTreN/FAtMEnCvEHeFndTs2cjJKuc53SEPog= X-Sasl-enc: 2Fw90yIeGj/2QJynh4/L1CWz5Z+ql5Pxb062/0mjM2L0 1424397273 Received: from sjc-alcoop-8817.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.234]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 93857C00297; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:54:31 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 17:54:29 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <90956FE2-34D9-4F8F-AD30-C873D505AE30@cooperw.in> References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, IESG , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 01:54:37 -0000 On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Susan Hares wrote: > Alissa: >=20 > OK - I can work with Wes to restate the text in a better way in = section 9. > Alia had some comments about the technical nature to beef up that = section. =20 Thanks. >=20 > On, section 1 was it this set of sentences that caused you to be = concerned? >=20 >=20 > In addition, it is common practice in the industry > for ISPs to bill customers based on utilization. ISPs bill = customers > based on the 95th percentile of the greater of the traffic sent or > received, over the course of a 1-month period, on the customer's > access circuit. Given that the BGP Path Selection algorithm selects > routes with the shortest AS_PATH attribute, it is critical that the > ISP does not increase AS_PATH length during or after ASN migration > toward downstream transit customers or settlement-free peers, who = are > likely sending or receiving traffic from those transit customers. > This would not only result in sudden changes in traffic patterns in > the network, but also substantially decrease utilization driven > revenue at the ISP. >=20 > If so, can you unpack more details on what concerned you? I think Randy=92s comment sort of summed up my feeling on this. Of = course there are business realities, but the RFC series doesn=92t exist = to document them, to the benefit of Internet engineering (IMO). In any event, I said I was able to hold my nose about this bit in Sec 1 = and I meant it, so it=92s up to your discretion as to whether you want = to make changes here. Alissa >=20 > Sue=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 5:50 PM > To: Susan Hares > Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; IESG; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) >=20 > On Feb 18, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Susan Hares wrote: >=20 >> Alissa:=20 >>=20 >> Could you unpack your concerns a bit more on section 1 and this = section? > Why is this not just a pragmatic comment on a reality of business that = can > happen? This specification is documenting what exists in real = networks with > real costs.=20 >>=20 >> What causes you to hold your nose? =20 >=20 > Sure. If anything that causes any entity to lose (or gain) revenue can = be > considered a security issue, we would likely end up doing a lot of = strange > things in protocol design in the name of "security." Furthermore, one > entity's loss can often be another's gain, where neither entity would = be > considered an attacker in the sense of perpetrating an attack a la RFC = 4949. > So I think it makes a lot more sense to focus security considerations = on > technical threats and mitigations and not consider any particular = party's > potential loss of revenue in and of itself as a security threat.=20 >=20 > Alissa >=20 >>=20 >> Sue=20 >>=20 >> -------- >>=20 >> The text: below:=20 >>=20 >> "This could result in a loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based = on > measured utilization >> of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >>=20 >> Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue = is a > slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose > for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems > particularly ill-advised. >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Why is this not just a comment on a reality of business that can = happen? > What causes you to hold your nose?=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> These =20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in]=20 >> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:37 PM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net; idr@ietf.org; idr-chairs@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org >> Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on = draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: > (with COMMENT) >>=20 >> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Section 9: >> "This could result in a >> loss of revenue if the ISP is billing based on measured utilization >> of traffic sent to/from entities attached to its network." >>=20 >> Considering loss of revenue in and of itself to be a security issue = is a > slippery slope that we should probably not start to descend. I held my = nose > for the revenue-related text in Section 1, but here in Section 9 it = seems > particularly ill-advised. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 From nobody Thu Feb 19 23:49:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332751A7004; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jplCUFbkkQbM; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0789.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::789]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E1B81A6F0B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.11) by DBXPR03MB591.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.93.16; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:29 +0000 Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) by DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) with mapi id 15.01.0093.004; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:28 +0000 From: "Neil J. McRae" To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQJVefqstoO5why0GAzXAZ7/XyJMh5vshgoQgAAghACAABtUgIABIJKAgABG0QCAAKZHUA== Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:28 +0000 Message-ID: <6080D609-3897-4406-ABCE-91F01092499B@domino.org> References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [92.40.249.20] authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=neil@domino.org; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB591; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB591; x-forefront-prvs: 0493852DA9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(189002)(24454002)(199003)(19580395003)(93886004)(19580405001)(82746002)(77096005)(2656002)(68736005)(46102003)(66066001)(102836002)(122556002)(40100003)(87936001)(50986999)(76176999)(230783001)(54356999)(64706001)(105586002)(106356001)(106116001)(110136001)(33656002)(86362001)(101416001)(97736003)(92566002)(36756003)(83716003)(2900100001)(77156002)(62966003)(2950100001)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR03MB591; H:DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:3; A:0; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: domino.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: domino.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Feb 2015 07:49:28.7279 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 398f3eb4-3394-48e7-885c-de1ab2a9cf2e X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBXPR03MB591 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , Alissa Cooper , "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , IESG , Susan Hares Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:51 -0000 On 19 Feb 2015, at 21:54, Randy Bush wrote: >> This document is written by two operators, documenting the operational >> issue that makes this functionality important which in turn drove them >> to write the document. Therefore I do think that it's important to >> draw the connection between As-Path lengthening and revenue loss, as >> this is the business reality. >=20 > i am an operator. i do not support this statement. I agree with Randy I am also an operator and don't agree with the statement= either. I would add without this functionality it makes it very hard to integrate n= etworks which could lead to security issue, increased costs or a loss in re= venue. Having integrated about 20 networks and then returned the AS numbers= it is also environmentally friendly.=20 But frankly the points l've made above and the original objection don't bel= ong here - the functionality is optional so if you think revenue is an issu= e don't do it.=20 Regards Neil. = From nobody Thu Feb 19 23:50:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 58FD51A7008; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332751A7004; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jplCUFbkkQbM; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0789.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::789]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E1B81A6F0B; Thu, 19 Feb 2015 23:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.11) by DBXPR03MB591.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.233.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.93.16; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:29 +0000 Received: from DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) by DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.233.11]) with mapi id 15.01.0093.004; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:28 +0000 From: "Neil J. McRae" To: Randy Bush Thread-Topic: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQJVefqstoO5why0GAzXAZ7/XyJMh5vshgoQgAAghACAABtUgIABIJKAgABG0QCAAKZHUA== Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:28 +0000 Message-ID: <6080D609-3897-4406-ABCE-91F01092499B@domino.org> References: <20150218203713.23448.83978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <022301d04bc5$1ca2b490$55e81db0$@ndzh.com> <1A9C702F-353D-429B-B806-5810F3C40806@cooperw.in> <02c001d04bda$ed0eaca0$c72c05e0$@ndzh.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [92.40.249.20] authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=neil@domino.org; x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB591; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DBXPR03MB591; x-forefront-prvs: 0493852DA9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(189002)(24454002)(199003)(19580395003)(93886004)(19580405001)(82746002)(77096005)(2656002)(68736005)(46102003)(66066001)(102836002)(122556002)(40100003)(87936001)(50986999)(76176999)(230783001)(54356999)(64706001)(105586002)(106356001)(106116001)(110136001)(33656002)(86362001)(101416001)(97736003)(92566002)(36756003)(83716003)(2900100001)(77156002)(62966003)(2950100001)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBXPR03MB591; H:DBXPR03MB589.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:3; A:0; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: domino.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: domino.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Feb 2015 07:49:28.7279 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 398f3eb4-3394-48e7-885c-de1ab2a9cf2e X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBXPR03MB591 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , Alissa Cooper , "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , IESG , Susan Hares Subject: Re: [Idr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:49:51 -0000 On 19 Feb 2015, at 21:54, Randy Bush wrote: >> This document is written by two operators, documenting the operational >> issue that makes this functionality important which in turn drove them >> to write the document. Therefore I do think that it's important to >> draw the connection between As-Path lengthening and revenue loss, as >> this is the business reality. >=20 > i am an operator. i do not support this statement. I agree with Randy I am also an operator and don't agree with the statement= either. I would add without this functionality it makes it very hard to integrate n= etworks which could lead to security issue, increased costs or a loss in re= venue. Having integrated about 20 networks and then returned the AS numbers= it is also environmentally friendly.=20 But frankly the points l've made above and the original objection don't bel= ong here - the functionality is optional so if you think revenue is an issu= e don't do it.=20 Regards Neil. = From nobody Fri Feb 20 07:34:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77651A8547; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u6O89wCdFo00; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE5311A1A91; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7132; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424446473; x=1425656073; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=5N4scyN1yRUWSDQr4qrEKIuE0eyM2nuK69Hz0e+3THk=; b=ZxFL+29viT8hiDv1rIPhQzO7RFnhkbk/YKG8kEyOSLJfJEEFASeDKqfZ upSl9o6GwwmDo5hICj/cSThgsTOZgO6cZFQPIOC5GxWIAC5GtbLgwdL98 a+HMnr9UWxCnOsB9VECXWL+YRqy8i2pRHt4FfDTLAS+QfyoFFXg7BAucZ A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CSBQDCU+dU/4wNJK1bgwaBLATIYQKBGEMBAQEBAQF8hBABAQR5EAIBCBguMiUCBA4FiC/UagEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEBARuKEX6EOzMHhCoFihmDRYFwiUGBGY5Ugz4iggIcgVBvgUR/AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,615,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="397793073" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2015 15:34:22 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1KFYM6g013539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:34:22 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.9.60]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:34:22 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQTE/7an4LcAKGCEuXhFr7LqAmhJz5FIIAgACpBoA= Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:34:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:34:35 -0000 On 2/19/15, 7:29 PM, "George, Wes" wrote: Wes: Hi! Hard to snip stuff out.. .. >On 2/19/15, 9:25 AM, "Adrian Farrel" wrote: > >>The document seems to address four topics: >>- Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration >>- Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers >>- Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the >> behavior >>- Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in >> specific implementations >> >>. . . >> >>The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, >>but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is >>no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this >>information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it >>might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators >>expectations about mechanisms that should be used within >>implementations. > >WG] As noted elsewhere, this is a locally specific implementation, so >interop isn't required. Consistency of behavior is useful, but I'm not >convinced that we're going to be able to force that by being more generic >and more prescriptive, nor am I convinced that there is much innovation to >be had here such that we'd stifle it. >IETF has a decision point here: do we document the desired behavior as if >no implementations currently exist and then reserve any acknowledgment of >the existing implementations for an implementation report or appendix, or >do we acknowledge that we're documenting existing behaviors as something >like the union of the features provided across the different >vendor-specific implementations? There is precedent for documenting one >vendor's implementation of something when they want to make it available >to other implementers, but I'm not aware of any precedent for this when >it's multiple vendors such as this document, especially when none of the >vendors in question are authors. >IMO, the problem with the first choice is that we now find ourselves in >the situation where we are essentially telling vendors that their existing >implementations are not compliant with our ex post facto standard, and I'm >not sure that has any real benefit. As people are fond of saying, IETF >isn't the protocol police, but when customers ask vendors for support of a >certain feature, if there's an RFC that documents it, they often refer to >it in shorthand as "support for RFCnnnn" with the expectation that it will >be fully supported without having to explain every possible part of the >desired feature or behavior. >This draft took a more pragmatic view, "...Rough consensus and running >code." and all that... The problem I have with the current text is that it basically reads: =B3we want the behavior to be like cisco=B9s local-as=B2 (as an example). While (not wearing any hats) I love cisco=B9s implementation of local-as, I=B9m l= eft with the sense that others are better off just reading the on-line documentation..which may of course change at any point. If you really want the behavior of (todays) cisco=B9s local-as, then document its current behavior, and ack the existing implementations in an appendix. This is similar to the =B3first choice=B2 you mentioned above in that the description of the behavior is separate from the commercial implementation, even if they do the same thing. In the draft you focused on the local-as (and options) functionality in Section 3 and 'Internal BGP Alias' in Section 4. I think you were right in describing the internal and external behaviors separately, which I think means that the functionality is not really the union of features, but two independent features. > >> >>I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation >>report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no >>explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, >>described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not >>documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives >>the false impression that the three implementations described are the >>benchmark for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material >>to an appendix or a separate implementation document, but as the authors >>note, much or all of the information can be found on the websites of the >>companies concerned, and I think that is where it should stay. > >WG] IDR requires implementation/interop reports. Given that this is a bit >of a "cart before horse" situation, where we are documenting existing >implementations, I think some mention of the vendor-specific >implementations is necessary. The info can be found on the websites, but >given that at least one of those links had gone 404 in the time since the >initial draft was written and had to be updated, I do not hold much hope >that the URIs will actually be useful references as this document ages. >Whether that means we need more info in the document instead is open for >discussion. >As to "you used C and J in your examples but not A or H or..." - There are >representatives from all of those vendors present at IETF and AFAIK >participating in IDR, and they are more than welcome to contribute text to >address the concern around unequal discussion of each vendor-specific >implementation within the draft. No slight or endorsement was intended. >That said, I am not convinced that a complete documentation of every >vendor's flavor of this is useful or appropriate, and your comments seem >to agree. >The authors chose examples based on what we were familiar with. Already we >struggled with the issue of terminology, because I got reviews from folks >at both C and J who got cross if I used the other's term or didn't >document the behavior exactly as they implemented it, but it didn't make >sense to invent completely new terms just to avoid using one of the >pre-existing terms. Additionally, because this behavior was initially >vendor-specific, there is a non-trivial amount of overlap between >implementations. Basically, an operator looked at a feature provided by >one vendor and told another either "do it like that" or "do it mostly like >that, but give me this additional optimization". We tried to split the >difference with the normative text. So I guess the question is whether or >not this document stands alone/is useful with just the normative text and >much less in the way of examples to tie it to the existing >implementations. Randy's comments seem to say yes (though he was >commenting more specifically on the business drivers). I will go with >consensus on the matter. I think examples are ok (in an appendix), specially if the base of the behavior is an already existing and deployed feature, as it is here. Personally, I would stay away form trying to show examples for all possible variations and all possible vendors, and focus on the specific functionality you=B9re addressing. Thanks! Alvaro. From nobody Fri Feb 20 07:34:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id EE3CE1A874E; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77651A8547; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u6O89wCdFo00; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE5311A1A91; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:34:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7132; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424446473; x=1425656073; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=5N4scyN1yRUWSDQr4qrEKIuE0eyM2nuK69Hz0e+3THk=; b=ZxFL+29viT8hiDv1rIPhQzO7RFnhkbk/YKG8kEyOSLJfJEEFASeDKqfZ upSl9o6GwwmDo5hICj/cSThgsTOZgO6cZFQPIOC5GxWIAC5GtbLgwdL98 a+HMnr9UWxCnOsB9VECXWL+YRqy8i2pRHt4FfDTLAS+QfyoFFXg7BAucZ A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CSBQDCU+dU/4wNJK1bgwaBLATIYQKBGEMBAQEBAQF8hBABAQR5EAIBCBguMiUCBA4FiC/UagEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEBARuKEX6EOzMHhCoFihmDRYFwiUGBGY5Ugz4iggIcgVBvgUR/AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,615,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="397793073" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2015 15:34:22 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1KFYM6g013539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:34:22 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.9.60]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:34:22 -0600 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQTE/7an4LcAKGCEuXhFr7LqAmhJz5FIIAgACpBoA= Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:34:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.15.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "morrowc@ops-netman.net" , The IESG Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:34:36 -0000 On 2/19/15, 7:29 PM, "George, Wes" wrote: Wes: Hi! Hard to snip stuff out.. .. >On 2/19/15, 9:25 AM, "Adrian Farrel" wrote: > >>The document seems to address four topics: >>- Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration >>- Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers >>- Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the >> behavior >>- Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in >> specific implementations >> >>. . . >> >>The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, >>but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is >>no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this >>information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it >>might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators >>expectations about mechanisms that should be used within >>implementations. > >WG] As noted elsewhere, this is a locally specific implementation, so >interop isn't required. Consistency of behavior is useful, but I'm not >convinced that we're going to be able to force that by being more generic >and more prescriptive, nor am I convinced that there is much innovation to >be had here such that we'd stifle it. >IETF has a decision point here: do we document the desired behavior as if >no implementations currently exist and then reserve any acknowledgment of >the existing implementations for an implementation report or appendix, or >do we acknowledge that we're documenting existing behaviors as something >like the union of the features provided across the different >vendor-specific implementations? There is precedent for documenting one >vendor's implementation of something when they want to make it available >to other implementers, but I'm not aware of any precedent for this when >it's multiple vendors such as this document, especially when none of the >vendors in question are authors. >IMO, the problem with the first choice is that we now find ourselves in >the situation where we are essentially telling vendors that their existing >implementations are not compliant with our ex post facto standard, and I'm >not sure that has any real benefit. As people are fond of saying, IETF >isn't the protocol police, but when customers ask vendors for support of a >certain feature, if there's an RFC that documents it, they often refer to >it in shorthand as "support for RFCnnnn" with the expectation that it will >be fully supported without having to explain every possible part of the >desired feature or behavior. >This draft took a more pragmatic view, "...Rough consensus and running >code." and all that... The problem I have with the current text is that it basically reads: =B3we want the behavior to be like cisco=B9s local-as=B2 (as an example). While (not wearing any hats) I love cisco=B9s implementation of local-as, I=B9m l= eft with the sense that others are better off just reading the on-line documentation..which may of course change at any point. If you really want the behavior of (todays) cisco=B9s local-as, then document its current behavior, and ack the existing implementations in an appendix. This is similar to the =B3first choice=B2 you mentioned above in that the description of the behavior is separate from the commercial implementation, even if they do the same thing. In the draft you focused on the local-as (and options) functionality in Section 3 and 'Internal BGP Alias' in Section 4. I think you were right in describing the internal and external behaviors separately, which I think means that the functionality is not really the union of features, but two independent features. > >> >>I find the final bullet very suspect. It goes beyond an implementation >>report and enters into the world of sales. While the document makes no >>explicit analysis of the pros and cons of the different implementations, >>described, there is a lot between the lines. Furthermore, by not >>documenting the mechanisms in other implementations, the document gives >>the false impression that the three implementations described are the >>benchmark for AS migration. It might be possible to move this material >>to an appendix or a separate implementation document, but as the authors >>note, much or all of the information can be found on the websites of the >>companies concerned, and I think that is where it should stay. > >WG] IDR requires implementation/interop reports. Given that this is a bit >of a "cart before horse" situation, where we are documenting existing >implementations, I think some mention of the vendor-specific >implementations is necessary. The info can be found on the websites, but >given that at least one of those links had gone 404 in the time since the >initial draft was written and had to be updated, I do not hold much hope >that the URIs will actually be useful references as this document ages. >Whether that means we need more info in the document instead is open for >discussion. >As to "you used C and J in your examples but not A or H or..." - There are >representatives from all of those vendors present at IETF and AFAIK >participating in IDR, and they are more than welcome to contribute text to >address the concern around unequal discussion of each vendor-specific >implementation within the draft. No slight or endorsement was intended. >That said, I am not convinced that a complete documentation of every >vendor's flavor of this is useful or appropriate, and your comments seem >to agree. >The authors chose examples based on what we were familiar with. Already we >struggled with the issue of terminology, because I got reviews from folks >at both C and J who got cross if I used the other's term or didn't >document the behavior exactly as they implemented it, but it didn't make >sense to invent completely new terms just to avoid using one of the >pre-existing terms. Additionally, because this behavior was initially >vendor-specific, there is a non-trivial amount of overlap between >implementations. Basically, an operator looked at a feature provided by >one vendor and told another either "do it like that" or "do it mostly like >that, but give me this additional optimization". We tried to split the >difference with the normative text. So I guess the question is whether or >not this document stands alone/is useful with just the normative text and >much less in the way of examples to tie it to the existing >implementations. Randy's comments seem to say yes (though he was >commenting more specifically on the business drivers). I will go with >consensus on the matter. I think examples are ok (in an appendix), specially if the base of the behavior is an already existing and deployed feature, as it is here. Personally, I would stay away form trying to show examples for all possible variations and all possible vendors, and focus on the specific functionality you=B9re addressing. Thanks! Alvaro. From nobody Sun Feb 22 13:24:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE9A1A0077; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BBYfUQm2MTZ1; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C18B1A0076; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1MLOLqh011705; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:21 GMT Received: from 950129200 (194-118-86-70.adsl.highway.telekom.at [194.118.86.70]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1MLOIr5011688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:19 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Susan Hares'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:18 -0000 Message-ID: <008901d04ee5$ec5512a0$c4ff37e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHrnXlttzVtYxbkfvRl+HWLwfz9KQJqxliNnLM3v8A= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21352.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--4.156-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--4.156-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +f/wAVSGjujtXNZ1/W4Kv5mug812qIbzStGAgmKqWuUY0A95tjAn+4LX 8vlm0t0DL4UntFRsmMlMqjv/KpRrAh2P280ZiGmR8eSmTJSmEv1bdOqDH81KSs2HFlSQV+Ga6EY a61Q2aXC6F3U9V11NGWgG5r1TGK06/DpEmuzAtvuYBp8/dz1fd0DwlkRNC6PClRDMdYEo4UAwG6 nr0XT1jzMMT/M+RgTVeSm+12QzcRwMCLEGW7c2cEK9qlwiTElfwFk84lhmgzxaW2Ktn+I8/lWSM EnTg+B3TugcMrBENywnfsSu0E0+V4TXQY/IMbHiVo6mn+xXmdVimi8LvNfmrzEusO19NZVt0hN0 XSxan/TnzlXMYw4XMD3Al4zalJpFWBd6ltyXuvvpwNlr/k7TbimDB5kLb1HE9wq3cUG7C1A29Xu Sf6DrH0PL0bBP2Ps63YrhArMGZviLKNbpbHBhf7Nx8Ni+7eCu8EMUU3okYYXoer1EJMvG+yy0eZ xd5bV4FVIZbguNbjQVic9Khd8bx43dNLmVO1nyftwZ3X11IV0= Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:29 -0000 Sue, It's good of you and Wes to try to address the concerns expressed in my = Abstain. It reflects well on your concern to do the right thing by the = IETF. However, I abstained precisely because I did not think you should try to = resolve my concerns. I believe that an attempt to do so will change = significantly what the WG wanted to publish, and will cause a huge = amount of churn for minimal progress. So... > Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this = effort? Neither. I am looking to get out of the way of publication of the = document. As I recall, addressing Pete's Discuss would have been enough to have = had the document approved on Thursday's IESG call. > My understanding is that you want to split to: [snip] No, I don't want to split anything. It's true that I don't want to have anything to do with this document in = its current form. But also true that I don't ask for any changes to be = made. The IESG writes (in its advice to itself = [http://www.ietf.org/iesg/voting-procedures.html]) |"Abstain" means "I cannot support sending this document forward." There |are two obvious reasons an AD might post this ballot position:=20 |- I am so strongly opposed to the document that I am unwilling to | "discuss". (Note that this should be very unusual.) |- I oppose this document but understand that others differ and am | not going to stand in the way of the others. |It is normal good practice for an AD to enter a Comment that explains = the |reason for their Abstain position. I took the second bullet and gave my reasons. That means that I am not sure that it is fruitful to discuss my reasons = with me unless I have suddenly shed light in a corner that you or the = authors believe now needs attention.=20 Pip-pip, Adrian From nobody Sun Feb 22 13:24:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 3EC0D1A007B; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE9A1A0077; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BBYfUQm2MTZ1; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C18B1A0076; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1MLOLqh011705; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:21 GMT Received: from 950129200 (194-118-86-70.adsl.highway.telekom.at [194.118.86.70]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1MLOIr5011688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:19 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Susan Hares'" , "'The IESG'" References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <00be01d04c53$168e1070$43aa3150$@ndzh.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:18 -0000 Message-ID: <008901d04ee5$ec5512a0$c4ff37e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHrnXlttzVtYxbkfvRl+HWLwfz9KQJqxliNnLM3v8A= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-21352.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--4.156-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--4.156-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +f/wAVSGjujtXNZ1/W4Kv5mug812qIbzStGAgmKqWuUY0A95tjAn+4LX 8vlm0t0DL4UntFRsmMlMqjv/KpRrAh2P280ZiGmR8eSmTJSmEv1bdOqDH81KSs2HFlSQV+Ga6EY a61Q2aXC6F3U9V11NGWgG5r1TGK06/DpEmuzAtvuYBp8/dz1fd0DwlkRNC6PClRDMdYEo4UAwG6 nr0XT1jzMMT/M+RgTVeSm+12QzcRwMCLEGW7c2cEK9qlwiTElfwFk84lhmgzxaW2Ktn+I8/lWSM EnTg+B3TugcMrBENywnfsSu0E0+V4TXQY/IMbHiVo6mn+xXmdVimi8LvNfmrzEusO19NZVt0hN0 XSxan/TnzlXMYw4XMD3Al4zalJpFWBd6ltyXuvvpwNlr/k7TbimDB5kLb1HE9wq3cUG7C1A29Xu Sf6DrH0PL0bBP2Ps63YrhArMGZviLKNbpbHBhf7Nx8Ni+7eCu8EMUU3okYYXoer1EJMvG+yy0eZ xd5bV4FVIZbguNbjQVic9Khd8bx43dNLmVO1nyftwZ3X11IV0= Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org, idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 21:24:29 -0000 Sue, It's good of you and Wes to try to address the concerns expressed in my = Abstain. It reflects well on your concern to do the right thing by the = IETF. However, I abstained precisely because I did not think you should try to = resolve my concerns. I believe that an attempt to do so will change = significantly what the WG wanted to publish, and will cause a huge = amount of churn for minimal progress. So... > Are you looking for a major rewrite of this draft or to scrap this = effort? Neither. I am looking to get out of the way of publication of the = document. As I recall, addressing Pete's Discuss would have been enough to have = had the document approved on Thursday's IESG call. > My understanding is that you want to split to: [snip] No, I don't want to split anything. It's true that I don't want to have anything to do with this document in = its current form. But also true that I don't ask for any changes to be = made. The IESG writes (in its advice to itself = [http://www.ietf.org/iesg/voting-procedures.html]) |"Abstain" means "I cannot support sending this document forward." There |are two obvious reasons an AD might post this ballot position:=20 |- I am so strongly opposed to the document that I am unwilling to | "discuss". (Note that this should be very unusual.) |- I oppose this document but understand that others differ and am | not going to stand in the way of the others. |It is normal good practice for an AD to enter a Comment that explains = the |reason for their Abstain position. I took the second bullet and gave my reasons. That means that I am not sure that it is fruitful to discuss my reasons = with me unless I have suddenly shed light in a corner that you or the = authors believe now needs attention.=20 Pip-pip, Adrian From nobody Mon Feb 23 11:59:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0D11A6EF4 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 11:59:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4iiYIJb3p6lu for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 11:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8C521A6EDB for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 11:59:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4699; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424721594; x=1425931194; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to; bh=DrzhUUQP62k8It//N3Hz9WTkEZk6YyWwRljKRrjihQE=; b=EtVo6Exx45k24ltPSBvXx1ZnSYF/nY6KrM4vHEXpQ8fB0alE1/PcZ/fQ iLK0z6Wc5SjpLht0oac2iND3rLbD0qKGKooVzB/X/kyq9Q6Ey/ebTqvWB PWjxHi54mTpK3j/IslMvcqsPHczVRWr01+faGoZaq0beZo1ZkprYelyJc 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CJBQDmhetU/4sNJK1bgkNDUlrDEAEJhXACgSZDAQEBAQEBfIQQAQEEAQEBKkEKEQsYCRYPCQMCAQIBFTATBgIBAReIFA3TEgEBAQEBAQEBAgEBAQEBAQEBARmLE4R1FoQVBYpKiGaFZYEbOIJdgi6JF4M+IoIygV0dMYJDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,632,1418083200"; d="scan'208,217";a="126121000" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2015 19:59:54 +0000 Received: from [10.154.210.154] ([10.154.210.154]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1NJxrCd029960 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:59:53 GMT Message-ID: <54EB86C1.5060408@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:00:01 -0800 From: Bhavani Parise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idr@ietf.org References: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070106070509090203070004" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:59:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070106070509090203070004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit support, I think the solution will be very useful regards, Bhavani On 1/19/15 8:34 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > > This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange. > Please comment on the usefulness of the draft in deployments and on > the technical pros/cons of the draft. In your comments please > include: “support” or “no support” indicate. Authors should indicate > if any IPR exists for this draft, and the number of implementations > that exist. > > If this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state > of WG LC completed, awaiting 2 implementations. > > The draft can be found at: > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ > > Sue Hares > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr --------------070106070509090203070004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

support, I think the solution will be very useful

regards,
Bhavani

On 1/19/15 8:34 AM, Susan Hares wrote:

 

This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange.   Please comment on the usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technical pros/cons of the draft.  In your comments please include:  “support” or “no support” indicate.  Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for this draft, and the number of implementations that exist.

 

If this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG LC completed, awaiting 2 implementations.

 

The draft can be found at:

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/

 

Sue Hares 



_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--------------070106070509090203070004-- From nobody Mon Feb 23 15:12:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459D61A1A3D for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xekBnLVtrVTa for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x234.google.com (mail-ob0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1B741A1A2C for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id vb8so39814890obc.11 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/HbZWZsjOEohxwSdKnYghzLTKUmN//uK227FSh+ATXc=; b=FR0WJQQrKiKtOdOqzD05AFpvHFDMQdi7x73z7CECkioyeYLdtWFqjqGjz8GMvZLnCX XYDJn9LVbvG69G1Zl8zHpTRxiAGdYuy/crC7nK+jR1W5Z7c9IHeOeHoWROMpnKN1iVxF EkAWtH0npBG6PoIr2p2VwdhhHdw4bLbvDdOpTqN98XCF0H7AevtNB86cd71yognX1T0P DJx2L7bW1c91HvUV5rXCJCx4FJhFb6ZTVMB2JLamu9NMSBp5yKE7o5Wt6AbycuciHgsz vBLRh92JseZhGLFxG2IxicbqiA0eVJ84PJwXxxtvjfv68v9rAjJgXMGJItR/2LGcxtDN 0biQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.125.130 with SMTP id mq2mr9301576obb.52.1424733170978; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.120.198 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.120.198 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:12:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> References: <050701d03405$cd9836d0$68c8a470$@ndzh.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 17:12:50 -0600 Message-ID: From: Luay Jalil To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e012277468e568a050fc98a0a Archived-At: Cc: idr wg , "John G. Scudder" Subject: Re: [Idr] 2 Week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-04 (2/19/2015 rto 2/5/2015) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 23:12:54 -0000 --089e012277468e568a050fc98a0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. This draft is useful and applicable to a service provider environment Regards, Luay On Jan 19, 2015 10:34 AM, "Susan Hares" wrote: > > > This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange. Please > comment on the usefulness of the draft in deployments and on the technica= l > pros/cons of the draft. In your comments please include: =E2=80=9Csuppo= rt=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cno > support=E2=80=9D indicate. Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for= this > draft, and the number of implementations that exist. > > > > If this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of W= G > LC completed, awaiting 2 implementations. > > > > The draft can be found at: > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ > > > > Sue Hares > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > --089e012277468e568a050fc98a0a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support. This draft is useful and applicable to a service pr= ovider environment

Regards,
Luay

On Jan 19, 2015 10:34 AM, "Susan Hares"= ; <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

This is to begin a 2 week Wg LC for draft-ietf-= idr-sla-exchange. =C2=A0=C2=A0Please comment on the usefulness of the draft= in deployments and on the technical pros/cons of the draft.=C2=A0 In your = comments please include:=C2=A0 =E2=80=9Csupport=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cno sup= port=E2=80=9D indicate.=C2=A0 Authors should indicate if any IPR exists for= this draft, and the number of implementations that exist.

=C2=A0

If = this draft does not have 2 implementations, it will go to a state of WG LC = completed, awaiting 2 implementations.

=C2=A0

The draft can be found = at:

=C2=A0

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf= -idr-sla-exchange/

=C2= =A0

Sue Hares


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--089e012277468e568a050fc98a0a-- From nobody Tue Feb 24 10:56:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445CF1A8858; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.122 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.122 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPcP3ur4_ytO; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E6111A87B2; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EF0FCC212; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:56:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:56:42 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Adrian Farrel Message-ID: <20150224185642.GA25639@pfrc> References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, The IESG , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:56:44 -0000 Adrian, On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 06:25:42AM -0800, Adrian Farrel wrote: [...] > The documentseems to address four topics: > - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration > - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers > - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the > behavior > - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in > specific implementations > > As Alvaro wrote: > > > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > > document de facto standards for future implementations and so > > that new features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is > > not expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the > > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead > > of Standard? > > I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive > requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. > > The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, > but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is > no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this > information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it > might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators > expectations about mechanisms that should be used within > implementations. Wes already covered a primary motivation for having this document in the first place: SIDR needed something written down in order to not have their bgpsec protocol design negatively impacted by operational reality. The majority of AS migration mechanisms are ugly twists of protocol behavior within the service provider that is utilizing them. However, once an appropriate administrative boundary is reached, the observed behavior is largely transparent. Where such administrative boundaries lie will depend on the migration mechanism in question. Use of such mechanisms is not without its risk in terms of being what should ideally appear to be a BGP black box outside of that boundary. An example of this is when the "replace-private all" mechanism is used, there will be apparent loops in the path. E.g.: "2 64512 3 64513" becomes "2 2 3 2". Pedantically reading the RFC 4271 AS_PATH modification rules will lead one to assume that such a loop could never happen and an excessively aggressive implementation may choose to drop the path as tainted. That obviously doesn't happen. Healing partitioned ASes through a second service provider is a known trick. as-override for VPN purposes is a known trick. In my opinion, such tricks aren't even necessarily well covered in the SIDR companion document since VPNs are out of scope at the moment. While I certainly appreciate your point about the lack of normative interoperability between several of the mechanisms, the fact that the behavior may be transparent outside of a given domain boundary has made it less important to operators to have the mechanisms standardized. What I believe I see in the above comments from you are: - Requirements may be fine. - Descriptive behavior may be fine. - Be more clearly normative about the behavior changes we are discussing for each mechanism. And that the above should probably consistute a document while the implementation details may constitute a second document as an implementation report. With regard to your "harmful" comment, I believe leaving these long-standing mechanisms undocument is far more harmful. Simply writing them down and discussing the impacts of the various options will likely lead to wider standardization. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Feb 24 10:56:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 5FCFF1A885B; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445CF1A8858; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.122 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.122 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPcP3ur4_ytO; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E6111A87B2; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EF0FCC212; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:56:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 13:56:42 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Adrian Farrel Message-ID: <20150224185642.GA25639@pfrc> References: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150219142542.32426.43010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: morrowc@ops-netman.net, idr@ietf.org, The IESG , idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-as-migration.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Adrian Farrel's Abstain on draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:56:44 -0000 Adrian, On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 06:25:42AM -0800, Adrian Farrel wrote: [...] > The documentseems to address four topics: > - Requirements for and circumstances of AS migration > - Behavior needed from a BGP system when migrating AS numbers > - Mechanisms that a BGP implementation can use to provide the > behavior > - Description of the mechanisms and configuration options contained in > specific implementations > > As Alvaro wrote: > > > o The Introduction is very tentative about the purpose: it wants to > > document de facto standards for future implementations and so > > that new features (BGPSec) take them into consideration..but it is > > not expecting all implementation to follow exactly (at least not the > > existing ones). My question is: should this be Informational instead > > of Standard? > > I would say that the first two bullets are classic descriptive > requirements text. They are good to publish as Informational. > > The third bullet is somewhat suspect. Maybe it is an advisory appendix, > but the list of ways to provide the function is unbounded and there is > no requirement for interoperability. I am not sure that publshing this > information is a great benefit. Maybe it is not harmful although it > might tend to reduce innovation and give vendors and operators > expectations about mechanisms that should be used within > implementations. Wes already covered a primary motivation for having this document in the first place: SIDR needed something written down in order to not have their bgpsec protocol design negatively impacted by operational reality. The majority of AS migration mechanisms are ugly twists of protocol behavior within the service provider that is utilizing them. However, once an appropriate administrative boundary is reached, the observed behavior is largely transparent. Where such administrative boundaries lie will depend on the migration mechanism in question. Use of such mechanisms is not without its risk in terms of being what should ideally appear to be a BGP black box outside of that boundary. An example of this is when the "replace-private all" mechanism is used, there will be apparent loops in the path. E.g.: "2 64512 3 64513" becomes "2 2 3 2". Pedantically reading the RFC 4271 AS_PATH modification rules will lead one to assume that such a loop could never happen and an excessively aggressive implementation may choose to drop the path as tainted. That obviously doesn't happen. Healing partitioned ASes through a second service provider is a known trick. as-override for VPN purposes is a known trick. In my opinion, such tricks aren't even necessarily well covered in the SIDR companion document since VPNs are out of scope at the moment. While I certainly appreciate your point about the lack of normative interoperability between several of the mechanisms, the fact that the behavior may be transparent outside of a given domain boundary has made it less important to operators to have the mechanisms standardized. What I believe I see in the above comments from you are: - Requirements may be fine. - Descriptive behavior may be fine. - Be more clearly normative about the behavior changes we are discussing for each mechanism. And that the above should probably consistute a document while the implementation details may constitute a second document as an implementation report. With regard to your "harmful" comment, I believe leaving these long-standing mechanisms undocument is far more harmful. Simply writing them down and discussing the impacts of the various options will likely lead to wider standardization. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Feb 24 11:48:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DAFB1A8889 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:48:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zyp6GIJoTqgP for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D911A8884 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 24137C212; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:48:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:48:05 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Susan Hares Message-ID: <20150224194805.GC25639@pfrc> References: <04fa01d03405$483d92a0$d8b8b7e0$@ndzh.com> <000d01d03481$afed1480$0fc73d80$@com> <68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D24C85828@PDDCWMBXEX503.ctl.intranet> <02c101d034cc$a2690a30$e73b1e90$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <02c101d034cc$a2690a30$e73b1e90$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" , 'idr wg' , draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2015 to 2/2/2015 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:48:06 -0000 Sue, On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:17:48AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote: > Donald: > > I hope that service providers will comment on the list on the usefulness of > this draft. If you have suggestions on improving the security > considerations, please send these to the list during the WG adoption call. I'm long overdue on this draft, but I would support its adoption if the authors could comment on the perceived scenario for using this functionality for offramping (redirect) instead of simply rate-limit/drop. For those technologies, it seems like a different mechanism for remotely distributing 802.* service mechanisms may be worth considering. A final comment to the authors and IDR: Please consider requesting a different extended community code point than the 0x80 registry. Eric just got done cleaning up the thing - let's not anchor anything else under "experimental" unless it's really an experiment. :-) -- Jeff From nobody Tue Feb 24 12:25:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 71F071A88C8; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5746D1A88C7 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N3Yh60SFS0OP for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from gamay.tools.ietf.org (gamay.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2607:f170:8000:1500::de]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56D9D1A88C1 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org ([67.207.130.108]:43214) by gamay.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YQM31-0008Ib-Tm for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:25:40 -0500 Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 24137C212; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:48:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:48:05 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Susan Hares Message-ID: <20150224194805.GC25639@pfrc> References: <04fa01d03405$483d92a0$d8b8b7e0$@ndzh.com> <000d01d03481$afed1480$0fc73d80$@com> <68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D24C85828@PDDCWMBXEX503.ctl.intranet> <02c101d034cc$a2690a30$e73b1e90$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <02c101d034cc$a2690a30$e73b1e90$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 67.207.130.108 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jhaas@slice.pfrc.org X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:57:07 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on gamay.tools.ietf.org) Resent-To: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@ietf.org Archived-At: Resent-Message-Id: <20150224202548.71F071A88C8@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-From: jhaas@slice.pfrc.org (nobody) Archived-At: Cc: "'John G. Scudder'" , 'idr wg' , draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2015 to 2/2/2015 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 20:25:48 -0000 Sue, On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:17:48AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote: > Donald: > > I hope that service providers will comment on the list on the usefulness of > this draft. If you have suggestions on improving the security > considerations, please send these to the list during the WG adoption call. I'm long overdue on this draft, but I would support its adoption if the authors could comment on the perceived scenario for using this functionality for offramping (redirect) instead of simply rate-limit/drop. For those technologies, it seems like a different mechanism for remotely distributing 802.* service mechanisms may be worth considering. A final comment to the authors and IDR: Please consider requesting a different extended community code point than the 0x80 registry. Eric just got done cleaning up the thing - let's not anchor anything else under "experimental" unless it's really an experiment. :-) -- Jeff From nobody Tue Feb 24 18:33:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F391A1A0B for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:33:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rFVcguzVErmP for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 802611A00BD for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CKW16544; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 20:33:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.36) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:33:16 +0000 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.146]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:33:12 +0800 From: Haoweiguo To: Jeffrey Haas , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2015 to 2/2/2015 Thread-Index: AdA0BQzsQKwqq1HRQreIR6xvWbabDgAe9n2gABBQaxP//47VAIA3PFqAgAD3LSo= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:33:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <04fa01d03405$483d92a0$d8b8b7e0$@ndzh.com> <000d01d03481$afed1480$0fc73d80$@com> <68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D24C85828@PDDCWMBXEX503.ctl.intranet> <02c101d034cc$a2690a30$e73b1e90$@ndzh.com>,<20150224194805.GC25639@pfrc> In-Reply-To: <20150224194805.GC25639@pfrc> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.135.23.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: 'idr wg' , "draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org" , "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2015 to 2/2/2015 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:33:21 -0000 Thanks Donald.=20 1. Perceived scenario for traffic redirect. After discussing with Stephane,= service chain steering is a perceived scenario for traffic redirect. The b= asic principle is illustrated as follows: EVPN +-----------------------+ =20 | | +------------+ CE ------ PE3 PE1 ----- SFC1 ---- IPVPN#1 | =20 | | +------------+ | | | | +------------+ CE ------ PE4 PE2 ----- SFC2 ---- IPVPN#2 | | | +------------+ +-----------------------+ In the diagram above, we consider that each PE connected to a service chain= , advertise the service chain as an EVPN ESI. Let's say that PE1 advertises ESI #10 for SFC1 and PE2 advertises ESI #20 f= or SFC2. We want to drive Web traffic to SFC1 and the other traffic to SFC2 from all= the CEs that are part of the EVPN. It might be interresting that a controller will create BGP FS rule to force= traffic towards the appropriate ESI. The controller may create two FS rules :=20 * , * , 2.Different extended community code point. Yes, a different type other tha= n 0x80 for BGP FS exclusively is good, i want to know IDR chairs and other = experts opionion on this.=20 Thanks, weiguo ________________________________________ From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Jeffrey Haas [jhaas@pfrc.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:48 To: Susan Hares Cc: 'John G. Scudder'; 'idr wg'; draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf= .org Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2= 015 to 2/2/2015 Sue, On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:17:48AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote: > Donald: > > I hope that service providers will comment on the list on the usefulness = of > this draft. If you have suggestions on improving the security > considerations, please send these to the list during the WG adoption call= . I'm long overdue on this draft, but I would support its adoption if the authors could comment on the perceived scenario for using this functionalit= y for offramping (redirect) instead of simply rate-limit/drop. For those technologies, it seems like a different mechanism for remotely distributing 802.* service mechanisms may be worth considering. A final comment to the authors and IDR: Please consider requesting a different extended community code point than the 0x80 registry. Eric just got done cleaning up the thing - let's not anchor anything else under "experimental" unless it's really an experiment. :-) -- Jeff _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr= From nobody Tue Feb 24 18:34:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 2118D1A1A0B; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:34:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070B61A033A for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:34:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B5vgbALYCH4a for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from gamay.tools.ietf.org (gamay.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2607:f170:8000:1500::de]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C519A1A00BD for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com ([119.145.14.66]:55273) by gamay.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YQRoI-0006bX-8d for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:34:53 -0500 Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg03-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.4.3-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BCH03013; Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:33:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.146]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 25 Feb 2015 10:33:12 +0800 From: Haoweiguo To: Jeffrey Haas , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2015 to 2/2/2015 Thread-Index: AdA0BQzsQKwqq1HRQreIR6xvWbabDgAe9n2gABBQaxP//47VAIA3PFqAgAD3LSo= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:33:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <04fa01d03405$483d92a0$d8b8b7e0$@ndzh.com> <000d01d03481$afed1480$0fc73d80$@com> <68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D24C85828@PDDCWMBXEX503.ctl.intranet> <02c101d034cc$a2690a30$e73b1e90$@ndzh.com>,<20150224194805.GC25639@pfrc> In-Reply-To: <20150224194805.GC25639@pfrc> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.135.23.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.54ED346C.00EE, ss=1, re=0.001, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.146, so=2013-05-26 15:14:31, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b4e8bd0d61df260dc77411f745842591 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 119.145.14.66 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: haoweiguo@huawei.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:57:07 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on gamay.tools.ietf.org) Resent-To: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@ietf.org Archived-At: Resent-Message-Id: <20150225023458.2118D1A1A0B@ietfa.amsl.com> Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:34:58 -0800 (PST) Resent-From: haoweiguo@huawei.com (nobody) Archived-At: Cc: 'idr wg' , "draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org" , "'John G. Scudder'" Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2015 to 2/2/2015 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:34:58 -0000 Thanks Donald.=20 1. Perceived scenario for traffic redirect. After discussing with Stephane,= service chain steering is a perceived scenario for traffic redirect. The b= asic principle is illustrated as follows: EVPN +-----------------------+ =20 | | +------------+ CE ------ PE3 PE1 ----- SFC1 ---- IPVPN#1 | =20 | | +------------+ | | | | +------------+ CE ------ PE4 PE2 ----- SFC2 ---- IPVPN#2 | | | +------------+ +-----------------------+ In the diagram above, we consider that each PE connected to a service chain= , advertise the service chain as an EVPN ESI. Let's say that PE1 advertises ESI #10 for SFC1 and PE2 advertises ESI #20 f= or SFC2. We want to drive Web traffic to SFC1 and the other traffic to SFC2 from all= the CEs that are part of the EVPN. It might be interresting that a controller will create BGP FS rule to force= traffic towards the appropriate ESI. The controller may create two FS rules :=20 * , * , 2.Different extended community code point. Yes, a different type other tha= n 0x80 for BGP FS exclusively is good, i want to know IDR chairs and other = experts opionion on this.=20 Thanks, weiguo ________________________________________ From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Jeffrey Haas [jhaas@pfrc.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 3:48 To: Susan Hares Cc: 'John G. Scudder'; 'idr wg'; draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn.all@tools.ietf= .org Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn (1/19/2= 015 to 2/2/2015 Sue, On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:17:48AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote: > Donald: > > I hope that service providers will comment on the list on the usefulness = of > this draft. If you have suggestions on improving the security > considerations, please send these to the list during the WG adoption call= From nobody Thu Feb 26 12:54:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC391A87A4; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gfl6MBp7HAQX; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD541A87AC; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150226205412.6453.67010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:12 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:54:15 -0000 IESG state changed to Last Call Requested from AD Evaluation ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ From nobody Thu Feb 26 12:54:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 1240C1A8841; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC391A87A4; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gfl6MBp7HAQX; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD541A87AC; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150226205412.6453.67010.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:12 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:54:15 -0000 IESG state changed to Last Call Requested from AD Evaluation ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ From nobody Thu Feb 26 12:54:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4661C1A87B8; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XvNXhv3WKXDG; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEAA41A87F2; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150226205422.11732.634.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:22 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Telechat update notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:54:31 -0000 Placed on agenda for telechat - 2015-03-12 ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ From nobody Thu Feb 26 12:54:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 610971A87D5; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4661C1A87B8; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XvNXhv3WKXDG; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEAA41A87F2; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150226205422.11732.634.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:54:22 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Telechat update notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:54:31 -0000 Placed on agenda for telechat - 2015-03-12 ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ From nobody Thu Feb 26 12:56:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783F01A879C for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 39OqZQByHiWl for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8C3A1A2119 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id uy5so14213457obc.4 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:56:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Qi+ZPdn8wSzjLx/Ok5/i1xWuAb8A8mlhjTLtiSakBec=; b=KuooGXPZ1tLcEaLufRsunvKXDKX9v7NOFelH+AVoDwuA16bF97jXYgw0EPc4TyDiD8 yuVpxnZe8weL4Cvevvb20iXkyI8BrhLIZVJORrB8FTW05/+YmjH0V4BkhtFtbXIIbYXx T5CB1LKIjHqXMG4DleirsfVYK+RPPXHpS8MwGnhGThf5vkcEbtMpT0Ho79hzOPcjnfce 1Wk+/Rqv0zQFbXXBfn+Ofj3vM/qwnS0tYUHMSXSfslJnMM6jpm83JmbM4of6Bk5SScjA HVzQvcXuf5Ugf3gkXvbYSIZztOI3UQ/XsVrPVXsy7CevszA1exiaGtaH22yO3Kc+MqEy el8Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.97.130 with SMTP id v124mr7183427oib.34.1424984179200; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.97.135 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:56:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 15:56:16 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: "idr@ietf. org" , draft-ietf-idr-error-handling@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d5966cfd8a3051003fbf3 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] AD review and progress of draft-ietf-idr-error-handling X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:56:21 -0000 --001a113d5966cfd8a3051003fbf3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have done my usual AD review of draft-ietf-idr-error-handling-18. It's very clear and well-written. Thanks for the hard work! I don't even have nits. I have requested IETF Last Call start and put it on the IESG telechat for March 12. Hopefully, we can have this one with the RFC Editor before Dallas. Thanks, Alia --001a113d5966cfd8a3051003fbf3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have done my usual AD review of=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-erro= r-handling-18.=C2=A0
It's very clear and well-written.=C2=A0 Thanks= for the hard work!=C2=A0 I don't even
have nits.=C2=A0
=

I have requested IETF Last Call start and put it on the= IESG telechat
for March 12.=C2=A0 Hopefully, we can have this on= e with the RFC Editor
before Dallas.

Tha= nks,
Alia
--001a113d5966cfd8a3051003fbf3-- From nobody Thu Feb 26 13:01:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8C11A8873; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ROfYvmxhfZu; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B705F1A8828; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:11 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20150226210111.16401.67992.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:11 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Last Call: (Revised Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:01:14 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Inter-Domain Routing WG (idr) to consider the following document: - 'Revised Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2015-03-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract According to the base BGP specification, a BGP speaker that receives an UPDATE message containing a malformed attribute is required to reset the session over which the offending attribute was received. This behavior is undesirable, because a session reset would impact not only routes with the offending attribute, but also other, valid routes exchanged over the session. This document partially revises the error handling for UPDATE messages and provides guidelines for the authors of documents defining new attributes. Finally, it revises the error handling procedures for a number of existing attributes. This document updates error handling for RFCs 1997, 4271, 4360, 4456, 4760, 5543, 5701 and 6368. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Feb 26 13:01:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA9F1A8848; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSvUwxHMlG5D; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363D61A8849; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150226210113.16401.10003.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:13 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:01:34 -0000 Last call has been made for draft-ietf-idr-error-handling and state has been changed to In Last Call ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ From nobody Thu Feb 26 13:01:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@virtual.ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 201E51A8873; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-idr-error-handling.all@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA9F1A8848; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSvUwxHMlG5D; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363D61A8849; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: , , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150226210113.16401.10003.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:01:13 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] ID Tracker State Update Notice: X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:01:34 -0000 Last call has been made for draft-ietf-idr-error-handling and state has been changed to In Last Call ID Tracker URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling/ From nobody Thu Feb 26 19:45:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318241A00B6; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:45:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r9X6O6mleOUB; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30F91A1AB5; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:45:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150227034527.10704.59653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:45:27 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-performance-routing-01.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 03:45:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Performance-based BGP Routing Mechanism Authors : Xiaohu Xu Mohamed Boucadair Christian Jacquenet Ning So Yimin Shen Uma Chunduri Hui Ni Yongbing Fan Luis M. Contreras Filename : draft-ietf-idr-performance-routing-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-02-26 Abstract: The current BGP specification doesn't use network performance metrics (e.g., network latency) in the route selection decision process. This document describes a performance-based BGP routing mechanism in which network latency metric is taken as one of the route selection criteria. This routing mechanism is useful for those server providers with global reach to deliver low-latency network connectivity services to their customers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-performance-routing/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-performance-routing-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-performance-routing-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/