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From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>
To: "'idr wg list'" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Qusetions about draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-enaps-00
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Hi Co-authors,

In this draft,  remote Endpoint sub-TLV is introduced to specify the IP add=
ress of tunnel end point. However, in draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay,  NVO3 N=
VE IP is carried in BGP Next Hop field. I am wondering why the remote Endpo=
int sub-TLV is introduced and why the BGP Next Hop can't satify the require=
ment?



Thanks,

weiguo

--_000_DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F8A4F24nkgeml501mbschi_
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10pt;">
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi Co-authors,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">In this draft,&nbsp; remote Endpoint s=
ub-TLV is introduced to specify the IP address of tunnel end point. However=
, in draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay,&nbsp; NVO3 NVE IP is carried in BGP Next=
 Hop field. I am wondering why the remote Endpoint
 sub-TLV is introduced and why the BGP Next Hop can't satify the requiremen=
t?</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">weiguo</font></p>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Qusetions about draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-enaps-00
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--089e01228c70f0b7ca051c6419f1
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Hi Weiguo

Unlike in overlay signalling here we are using classic BGP control plane
hence next hop will be rewritten across any EBGP boundary.

If you required to construct an overlay data plane using existing BGP
control plane there is a need to signal the tunnel endpoint address.

In evpn-overlay BGP is congruent with data plane and runs in the overlay.

Both approaches have pros and cons and I guess it is helpful to provide
both options to operators.

Best,
r.


On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:00 AM, Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Co-authors,
>
> In this draft,  remote Endpoint sub-TLV is introduced to specify the IP
> address of tunnel end point. However, in draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay,
> NVO3 NVE IP is carried in BGP Next Hop field. I am wondering why the remote
> Endpoint sub-TLV is introduced and why the BGP Next Hop can't satify the
> requirement?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> weiguo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>

--089e01228c70f0b7ca051c6419f1
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Weiguo</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;font-size:small">Unlike in overlay signalling here we are using clas=
sic BGP control plane hence next hop will be rewritten across any EBGP boun=
dary.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">If you req=
uired to construct an overlay data plane using existing BGP control plane t=
here is a need to signal the tunnel endpoint address.=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">In evpn-overlay BGP is congruent with=
 data plane and runs in the overlay.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">Both approaches have pros and cons and I guess it is h=
elpful to provide both options to operators.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">r.</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:00 AM, Haoweiguo <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">haoweiguo@huawei.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt=
">
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi Co-authors,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">In this draft,=C2=A0 remote Endpoint s=
ub-TLV is introduced to specify the IP address of tunnel end point. However=
, in draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay,=C2=A0 NVO3 NVE IP is carried in BGP Next=
 Hop field. I am wondering why the remote Endpoint
 sub-TLV is introduced and why the BGP Next Hop can&#39;t satify the requir=
ement?</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">weiguo</font></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Progressing on draft-litkowski-idr-rtc-interas
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Hi WG,

I would like to restart some discussion on this draft as there was no discu=
ssion since Dallas IETF.
IMO, the draft presents a problem that we definitely need to solve (we have=
 some issues in live networks ..., so it's not theorical).
Now , regarding the solution we give in the draft, discussion is required .=
..

Do you think that we take the good approach today ? Do we need to push a si=
ngle behavior ?
Please provide your comments, so we can progress on that topic.

Thanks,

[Orange logo]<http://www.orange.com/>

Stephane Litkowski
Network Architect
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/IBNF/ENDD/NDE
Orange Expert Future Networks
phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 <https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?targ=
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stephane.litkowski@orange.com<mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com>



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to restart some discussion on this draf=
t as there was no discussion since Dallas IETF.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMO, the draft presents a problem that we definitely=
 need to solve (we have some issues in live networks &#8230;, so it&#8217;s=
 not theorical).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now , regarding the solution we give in the draft, d=
iscussion is required &#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think that we take the good approach today ? =
Do we need to push a single behavior ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please provide your comments, so we can progress on =
that topic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.orange.com/"><span style=3D"fo=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Stephane Litkowski
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
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</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
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</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Orange Expert Fut=
ure Networks</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
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<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#FF6600;te=
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 12:43:42 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Hi,

In Dallas, we presented an update of draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interface=
set which allow to push flowspec rules to a specific set of interfaces iden=
tified by a group ID.
We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new com=
ment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the NLRI=
 which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping it as comm=
unity looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific cases.

I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.

Do you think the technical proposal is right ?
Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?

One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all th=
e flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse som=
e RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict with Flowspec V=
PN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear from implementor=
s about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying interfaces groups o=
n the same route.

Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a "SDN" API, lik=
e Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group of nod=
e.


Brgds,

Stephane


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In Dallas, we presented an update of draft-litkowski=
-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec rules to a specific=
 set of interfaces identified by a group ID.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We took into account the comment we had in Toronto b=
ut there was no new comment. Last discussion was about putting the interfac=
e group within the NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS=
, so keeping it as community looks
 better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific cases.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to restart the discussion on this draft=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think the technical proposal is right ?<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think that the group ID space is large enough=
 ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One concern I have (not a big one), is that all rout=
ers will receive all the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I wou=
ld be good to reuse some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may c=
onflict with Flowspec VPN, so special
 care are required, and I would like to hear from implementors about having=
 RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying interfaces groups on the same rou=
te.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechan=
ism to a &#8220;SDN&#8221; API, like Openflow ? Programming flows on a spec=
ific node, or specific group of node.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brgds,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Stephane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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</PRE></body>
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Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 09:45:17 -0700
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Subject: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis-05: (with COMMENT)
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Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis-05: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Could you expand two acronyms in the introduction, VRF and NLRI?  Thank
you!



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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Hello Acee,

> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that
> be the BGP answer to this problem?

Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?

Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be
used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow
any filtering based on regular/extended/wide communities.

Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN
filtering application based on RT import:

Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Target
extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with
the VRF import policy, using the same mechanism as describein
"BGP/MPLS IP VPNs" [RFC4364
<http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .

So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?

Regards,
Robert.



On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Stephane,
>
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephane Litkowski <
> stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
> Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
> To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> In Dallas, we presented an update of
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec
> rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.
>
> We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new
> comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the
> NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping it a=
s
> community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific
> cases.
>
>
>
> I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.
>
>
>
> Do you think the technical proposal is right ?
>
>
> I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be
> the right direction.
>
>
> Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?
>
>
> I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.
>
>
>
> One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all
> the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse
> some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict with
> Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear from
> implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying
> interfaces groups on the same route.
>
>
> This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating
> advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?
>
>
>
> Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =E2=80=9CSDN=
=E2=80=9D API,
> like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group o=
f
> node.
>
>
> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that be the =
BGP
> answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to
> filtering than generalized traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segme=
nt
> routing provides a more scalable solution.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> Brgds,
>
>
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hello Acee,</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">&gt; If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Sp=
ec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">&gt; be=
 the BGP answer to this problem?</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br=
></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Can&#39;t resist to ask .. what do you=
 mean ?=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:14px">Route target is just an extended community and like any other=
 SAFI can be used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementati=
on to allow any filtering based on regular/extended/wide communities.=C2=A0=
</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"=
>Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN =
filtering application based on RT import:</span><br></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small=
"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:=
14px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">P=
ropagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Target
extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VR=
F import policy, using the same mechanism as describein &quot;BGP/MPLS IP V=
PNs&quot; [<a href=3D"http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html">RFC4364</=
a>] .</pre></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">So can you elaborate what does it m=
ean to &quot;adopt RTs to Flow Spec&quot; ?=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Regards,</=
span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Robert.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px=
"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:5=
4 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Stephane,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf=
 of Stephane Litkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:4=
3 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Idr] Progressing draft-li=
tkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01<br>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>


<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In Dallas, we presented an update of draft-litkowski=
-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec rules to a specific=
 set of interfaces identified by a group ID.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We took into account the comment we had in Toronto b=
ut there was no new comment. Last discussion was about putting the interfac=
e group within the NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS=
, so keeping it as community looks
 better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific cases.<u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to restart the discussion on this draft=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think the technical proposal is right ?</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to b=
e the right direction.=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think that the group ID space is large enough=
 ?</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><div>I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft=
.=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One concern I have (not a big one), is that all rout=
ers will receive all the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I wou=
ld be good to reuse some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may c=
onflict with Flowspec VPN, so special
 care are required, and I would like to hear from implementors about having=
 RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying interfaces groups on the same rou=
te.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><div>This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are antici=
pating advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?=
=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechan=
ism to a =E2=80=9CSDN=E2=80=9D API, like Openflow ? Programming flows on a =
specific node, or specific group of node.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><div>If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t th=
at be the BGP answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better sui=
ted to filtering than generalized traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel =
segment routing provides a more scalable solution.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brgds,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Stephane<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</span></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 21:29:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Hi Acee,

Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.

Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple route
map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that
using new registered wide community could be another alternative.

However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual
route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or would
not apply. Also unless you put interfaces in the vrfs (which is too
limiting to the case described in the draft) it seems that some
implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface concept and they
act in "global space". With that in mind if we are to add this per
interface scope we may as well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send
it as recognized by flow-spec.

- - -

So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good
awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to
remove a little bit of provisioning.

It is up to the WG to decide if this "little bit" justifies standards track
RFC :)

Best,
r.













On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> From: <rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> Cc: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <
> idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
> Hello Acee,
>
> > If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that
> > be the BGP answer to this problem?
>
> Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?
>
> Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be
> used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow
> any filtering based on regular/extended/wide communities.
>
> Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN
> filtering application based on RT import:
>
> Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Target
> extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the =
VRF import policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs=
" [RFC4364 <http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .
>
> Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.
>
>
>
> So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?
>
>
> Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=E2=80=99t route-targets alone b=
e enough
> to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node
> or set of nodes?
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Robert.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stephane,
>>
>> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephane Litkowski <
>> stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
>> Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
>> To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> In Dallas, we presented an update of
>> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec
>> rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.
>>
>> We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new
>> comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within th=
e
>> NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping it =
as
>> community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific
>> cases.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you think the technical proposal is right ?
>>
>>
>> I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be
>> the right direction.
>>
>>
>> Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?
>>
>>
>> I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.
>>
>>
>>
>> One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all
>> the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reus=
e
>> some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict with
>> Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear fro=
m
>> implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying
>> interfaces groups on the same route.
>>
>>
>> This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating
>> advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =E2=80=9CSD=
N=E2=80=9D API,
>> like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group =
of
>> node.
>>
>>
>> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that be the=
 BGP
>> answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to
>> filtering than generalized traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segm=
ent
>> routing provides a more scalable solution.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brgds,
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephane
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________=
_________________________________________________
>>
>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confi=
dentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez r=
ecu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages=
 electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou falsifie. Merci.
>>
>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and d=
elete this message and its attachments.
>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have be=
en modified, changed or falsified.
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>>
>>
>

--f46d043c07d48c767f051c6f0684
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Acee,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for thi=
s application.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">S=
imple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple route m=
ap. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that using=
 new registered wide community could be another alternative.=C2=A0</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">However his point is to automa=
te the filtering and not bother with manual route-maps/policy on all the ed=
ges to filter where flowspec would or would not apply. Also unless you put =
interfaces in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the =
draft) it seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per in=
terface concept and they act in &quot;global space&quot;. With that in mind=
 if we are to add this per interface scope we may as well add the proposed =
grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by flow-spec.=C2=A0</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">- - -</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">So other then partial deployment problem which re=
quires operator&#39;s good awareness of what which box supports I see this =
proposal as helpful to remove a little bit of provisioning.=C2=A0</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">It is up to the WG to decide if=
 this &quot;little bit&quot; justifies standards track RFC :)</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">r.</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, =
Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Robert,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; on behalf of Robert=
 Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@r=
aszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:2=
1 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Stephane Litkowski &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkow=
ski@orange.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] Progressing draf=
t-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01<br>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Hello Acee,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">&gt; If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that=
=C2=A0</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">&gt; be the BGP answer to this problem?</span><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">Can&#39;t resist to ask .. what do you mean ?=C2=A0</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can =
be used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allo=
w any filtering based on
 regular/extended/wide communities.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the V=
PN filtering application based on RT import:</span><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<pre style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by m=
atching Route Target
extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VR=
F import policy, using the same mechanism as describein &quot;BGP/MPLS IP V=
PNs&quot; [<a href=3D"http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html" target=3D=
"_blank">RFC4364</a>] .</pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
<div>Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">So can you elaborate what does it mean to &quot;adopt RTs to Flow Spec&=
quot; ?=C2=A0</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><div>Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=E2=80=99t route-targe=
ts alone be enough to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying t=
o a specific node or set of nodes?=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font =
color=3D"#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Acee</div></font></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">Regards,</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px">Robert.</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14=
px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (ac=
ee) <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Stephane,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf=
 of Stephane Litkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:4=
3 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Idr] Progressing draft-li=
tkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01<br>
</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In Dallas, we presented an update of draft-litkowski=
-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec rules to a specific=
 set of interfaces identified by a group ID.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We took into account the comment we had in Toronto b=
ut there was no new comment. Last discussion was about putting the interfac=
e group within the NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS=
, so keeping it as community looks
 better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific cases.<u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to restart the discussion on this draft=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think the technical proposal is right ?</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to b=
e the right direction.=C2=A0</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do you think that the group ID space is large enough=
 ?</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.=C2=A0=
</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One concern I have (not a big one), is that all rout=
ers will receive all the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I wou=
ld be good to reuse some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may c=
onflict with Flowspec VPN, so special
 care are required, and I would like to hear from implementors about having=
 RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying interfaces groups on the same rou=
te.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating =
advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?=C2=A0</=
div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechan=
ism to a =E2=80=9CSDN=E2=80=9D API, like Openflow ? Programming flows on a =
specific node, or specific group of node.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that be t=
he BGP answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to =
filtering than generalized traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment=
 routing provides a more scalable solution.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brgds,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Stephane<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span></div>
<br>
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From nobody Tue Aug  4 01:35:27 2015
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 08:37:19 +0000
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you have
interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings in
total which could be well served by standard bgp community marking (which
is already in place for various other policy filtering reasons today in all
serious networks).

How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?

RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In such
a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces under
sort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and FIB for
forwarding). Then (and this is maybe what Acee had in mind in the first
place) you do not need any flow spec extensions :) You just apply
vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you like and import filtering rules
based on the RT under global vrf-filter foo section.

Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Only
thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.

The config would look like this:

vrf-filter foo
import rt "peers"

int Ge0/1
vrf-filter foo

Et voil=C3=A0 ;)

Cheers,
Robert.


On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:

> Why do you think RT is too big for this ? RT is used for more and more
> applications. Here we want to express a group membership which is precise=
ly
> what RT does.
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41
> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Cc:* LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF; idr@ietf.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Progressing
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
>
>
> Hi Acee,
>
>
>
> Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.
>
>
>
> Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple rout=
e
> map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that
> using new registered wide community could be another alternative.
>
>
>
> However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual
> route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or woul=
d
> not apply. Also unless you put interfaces in the vrfs (which is too
> limiting to the case described in the draft) it seems that some
> implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface concept and they
> act in "global space". With that in mind if we are to add this per
> interface scope we may as well add the proposed grouping and verbatim sen=
d
> it as recognized by flow-spec.
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good
> awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to
> remove a little bit of provisioning.
>
>
>
> It is up to the WG to decide if this "little bit" justifies standards
> track RFC :)
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> *From: *<rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net=
>
> *Date: *Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org" =
<
> idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Progressing
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
>
>
> Hello Acee,
>
>
>
> > If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that
>
> > be the BGP answer to this problem?
>
>
>
> Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?
>
>
>
> Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be
> used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow
> any filtering based on regular/extended/wide communities.
>
>
>
> Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN
> filtering application based on RT import:
>
>
>
> Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Target
>
> extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the =
VRF import policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs=
" [RFC4364 <http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .
>
> Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?
>
>
>
> Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=E2=80=99t route-targets alone b=
e enough
> to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node
> or set of nodes?
>
>
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
>
>
> *From: *Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephane Litkowski <
> stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
> *Date: *Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
> *To: *"idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> In Dallas, we presented an update of
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec
> rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.
>
> We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new
> comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the
> NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping it a=
s
> community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific
> cases.
>
>
>
> I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.
>
>
>
> Do you think the technical proposal is right ?
>
>
>
> I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be
> the right direction.
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?
>
>
>
> I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.
>
>
>
>
>
> One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all
> the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse
> some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict with
> Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear from
> implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying
> interfaces groups on the same route.
>
>
>
> This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating
> advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?
>
>
>
>
>
> Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =E2=80=9CSDN=
=E2=80=9D API,
> like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group o=
f
> node.
>
>
>
> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that be the =
BGP
> answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to
> filtering than generalized traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segme=
nt
> routing provides a more scalable solution.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Brgds,
>
>
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
>
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
>
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>

--089e01160002065777051c79b567
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">What I meant RT being too big was based=
 on the fact that typically you have interfaces facing customers, peers or =
upstreams. So three groupings in total which could be well served by standa=
rd bgp community marking (which is already in place for various other polic=
y filtering reasons today in all serious networks).=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">How many groups do you envision to ha=
ve for pushing the filtering around?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filte=
rs into VRFs. In such a case suppose an implementation would allow you to p=
ut interfaces under sort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do =
with RIB and FIB for forwarding). Then (and this is maybe what Acee had in =
mind in the first place) you do not need any flow spec extensions :) You ju=
st apply vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you like and import filter=
ing rules based on the RT under global vrf-filter foo section.=C2=A0</div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Such import should be alread=
y supported in all implementations today. Only thing is missing is the infr=
a part of the vendor of your choice.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small">The config would look like this:</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">vrf-filter foo</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">import rt =
&quot;peers&quot;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">int =
Ge0/1</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small">vrf-filter foo</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
">Et voil=C3=A0 ;)</font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">Cheers,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Robert.</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small=
"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Why do you think RT is to=
o big for this ? RT is used for more and more applications. Here we want to=
 express a group membership which is precisely what RT does.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=
=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com=
</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<span class=3D""><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfac=
eset-01<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">Hi Acee,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this appl=
ication.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine =
+ a simple route map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also me=
ntioned that using new registered wide community could be
 another alternative.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">However his point is to automate the filtering and not bot=
her with manual route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec=
 would or would not apply. Also unless you put interfaces
 in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the draft) it =
seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface co=
ncept and they act in &quot;global space&quot;. With that in mind if we are=
 to add this per interface scope we may as
 well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by flow-=
spec.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">- - -<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">So other then partial deployment problem which requires op=
erator&#39;s good awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal =
as helpful to remove a little bit of provisioning.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">It is up to the WG to decide if this &quot;little bit&quot=
; justifies standards track RFC :)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">r.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Robert,=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; on behalf of Robert Raszuk &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net<=
/a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Stephane Litkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@oran=
ge.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfac=
eset-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hello Acee,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt; If Route Targets were =
adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt; be the BGP answer to t=
his problem?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Can&#39;t resist to ask .. =
what do you mean ?=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Route target is just an ext=
ended community and like any other SAFI can be used with vanilla Flow Spec.=
 Likewise it is up to implementation to allow any filtering
 based on regular/extended/wide communities.=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Just FYI RFC already spells=
 out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN filtering application based =
on RT import:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by =
matching Route Target<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">extended communities associated with the B=
GP path advertisement with the VRF import policy, using the same mechanism =
as describein &quot;BGP/MPLS IP VPNs&quot; [<a href=3D"http://www.armware.d=
k/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html" target=3D"_blank">RFC4364</a>] .<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Ok - so it is already in RF=
C 5575.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">So can you elaborate what d=
oes it mean to &quot;adopt RTs to Flow Spec&quot; ?=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Given that they already app=
ly ;^), wouldn=E2=80=99t route-targets alone be enough to satisfy the requi=
rement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node or set of
 nodes?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#888888">Acee<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards,</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Robert.</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:5=
4 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Stephane,=C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Stepha=
ne Litkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D=
"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset=
-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">In Dallas, we presented =
an update of draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push =
flowspec rules to a specific set of interfaces identified
 by a group ID.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We took into account the=
 comment we had in Toronto but there was no new comment. Last discussion wa=
s about putting the interface group within the NLRI
 which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping it as comm=
unity looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific cases.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">I would like to restart =
the discussion on this draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Do you think the technic=
al proposal is right ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I believe this is a valuabl=
e extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be the right direction.=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Do you think that the gr=
oup ID space is large enough ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I think 16K is plenty for t=
he use cases presented in this draft.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">One concern I have (not =
a big one), is that all routers will receive all the flowspec routes even i=
f they do not need it. I would be good to reuse some
 RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict with Flowspec VP=
N, so special care are required, and I would like to hear from implementors=
 about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying interfaces groups on=
 the same route.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This problem existed with R=
FC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating advertising more rules now that =
you have this level of granularity?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Do we need to enlarge th=
e application of this mechanism to a =E2=80=9CSDN=E2=80=9D API, like Openfl=
ow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group of node.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">If Route Targets were adopt=
ed to Flow Spec, wouldn=E2=80=99t that be the BGP answer to this problem? A=
lso, I think Flow Spec is better suited to filtering than generalized
 traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing provides a more s=
calable solution.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Acee=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Brgds,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Stephane<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">__________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
____<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent c=
ontenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies san=
s autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signal=
er<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi qu=
e les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;a=
lteration,<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce =
message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></span></pre=
>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">This message and its attachments may conta=
in confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<u><=
/u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">they should not be distributed, used or co=
pied without authorisation.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">If you have received this email in error, =
please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<u></u=
><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">As emails may be altered, Orange is not li=
able for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:bla=
ck"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre></div></div></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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I think RT can also be used for the interface(s) filtering. In EVPN,  the E=
thernet Segment route filtering  is based on RT for multihomed Ethernet Seg=
ment auto-discovery, each PE connected to a particular Ethernet segment con=
structs an import filtering rule to import a route that carries the ES-Impo=
rt Route Target. The solution can also be used for the flowspec interface g=
roup requirement.

Thanks,

weiguo

________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.=
net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 18:25
To: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you have=
 interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings in tot=
al which could be well served by standard bgp community marking (which is a=
lready in place for various other policy filtering reasons today in all ser=
ious networks).

How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?

RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In such=
 a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces under s=
ort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and FIB for =
forwarding). Then (and this is maybe what Acee had in mind in the first pla=
ce) you do not need any flow spec extensions :) You just apply vrf-filter c=
ommand on set of interfaces you like and import filtering rules based on th=
e RT under global vrf-filter foo section.

Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Only =
thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.

The config would look like this:

vrf-filter foo
import rt "peers"

int Ge0/1
vrf-filter foo

Et voil=E0 ;)

Cheers,
Robert.


On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com<mailto:step=
hane.litkowski@orange.com>> wrote:
Why do you think RT is too big for this ? RT is used for more and more appl=
ications. Here we want to express a group membership which is precisely wha=
t RT does.

From: rraszuk@gmail.com<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com> [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com=
<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41
To: Acee Lindem (acee)
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF; idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

Hi Acee,

Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.

Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple route =
map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that usin=
g new registered wide community could be another alternative.

However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual r=
oute-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or would n=
ot apply. Also unless you put interfaces in the vrfs (which is too limiting=
 to the case described in the draft) it seems that some implementations of =
flow spec do not have a per interface concept and they act in "global space=
". With that in mind if we are to add this per interface scope we may as we=
ll add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by flow-spe=
c.

- - -

So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good awa=
reness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to remove =
a little bit of provisioning.

It is up to the WG to decide if this "little bit" justifies standards track=
 RFC :)

Best,
r.













On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:=
acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
Hi Robert,

From: <rraszuk@gmail.com<mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com>> on behalf of Robert Ras=
zuk <robert@raszuk.net<mailto:robert@raszuk.net>>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
Cc: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com<mailto:stephane.litko=
wski@orange.com>>, "idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>" <idr@ietf.org<mailto=
:idr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

Hello Acee,

> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=92t that
> be the BGP answer to this problem?

Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?

Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be u=
sed with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow an=
y filtering based on regular/extended/wide communities.

Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN f=
iltering application based on RT import:


Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Target

extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VR=
F import policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs" =
[RFC4364<http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .
Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.



So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?

Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=92t route-targets alone be enough=
 to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node =
or set of nodes?

Acee


Regards,
Robert.



On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:=
acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
Hi Stephane,

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com<mailto:stephane.litkowski=
@orange.com>>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
To: "idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>" <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

Hi,

In Dallas, we presented an update of draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interface=
set which allow to push flowspec rules to a specific set of interfaces iden=
tified by a group ID.
We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new com=
ment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the NLRI=
 which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping it as comm=
unity looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specific cases.

I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.

Do you think the technical proposal is right ?

I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be the=
 right direction.


Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?

I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.


One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all th=
e flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse som=
e RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict with Flowspec V=
PN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear from implementor=
s about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying interfaces groups o=
n the same route.

This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating adver=
tising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?


Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =93SDN=94 API,=
 like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group of=
 node.

If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=92t that be the BGP answ=
er to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to filtering t=
han generalized traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing pr=
ovides a more scalable solution.

Thanks,
Acee



Brgds,

Stephane


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.


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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



--_000_DD5FC8DE455C3348B94340C0AB5517334F8A82DFnkgeml501mbschi_
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
</head>
<body fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">I think RT can also be used for the in=
terface(s)&nbsp;filtering.&nbsp;In EVPN,&nbsp; the Ethernet Segment route f=
iltering&nbsp;&nbsp;is based on RT for multihomed Ethernet Segment auto-dis=
covery, each PE connected to a particular Ethernet segment constructs
 an import filtering rule to import a route that carries the ES-Import Rout=
e&nbsp;Target. The solution can also be used for the flowspec interface gro=
up requirement.</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">weiguo</font></p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF290925"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf=
 of Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 04, 2015 18:25<br>
<b>To:</b> &lt;stephane.litkowski@orange.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfac=
eset-01<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you have=
 interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings in tot=
al which could be well served by standard bgp community marking (which is a=
lready in place for various other
 policy filtering reasons today in all serious networks).&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?&n=
bsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In such=
 a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces under s=
ort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and FIB for =
forwarding). Then (and this is maybe
 what Acee had in mind in the first place) you do not need any flow spec ex=
tensions :) You just apply vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you like=
 and import filtering rules based on the RT under global vrf-filter foo sec=
tion.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Only =
thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
The config would look like this:</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
vrf-filter foo</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
import rt &quot;peers&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
int Ge0/1</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
vrf-filter foo</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Et=
 voil=E0 ;)</font><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
Cheers,<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
Robert.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: small" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">s=
tephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Why do you think RT is too big for this ? =
RT is used for more and more applications. Here we want to express a group =
membership which is precisely what RT
 does.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<span><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">
idr@ietf.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfac=
eset-01<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<p></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi=
 Acee,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Pe=
rsonally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.&nbsp;<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Si=
mple regular community coloring would be more then fine &#43; a simple rout=
e map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that us=
ing new registered wide community could
 be another alternative.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ho=
wever his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual rou=
te-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or would not=
 apply. Also unless you put interfaces
 in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the draft) it =
seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface co=
ncept and they act in &quot;global space&quot;. With that in mind if we are=
 to add this per interface scope we may as
 well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by flow-=
spec.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">- =
- -<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">So=
 other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good aware=
ness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to remove a =
little bit of provisioning.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">It=
 is up to the WG to decide if this &quot;little bit&quot; justifies standar=
ds track RFC :)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Be=
st,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">r.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><u=
></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Hi Robert,&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black=
; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; on behalf of Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Stephane Litkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@oran=
ge.com" target=3D"_blank">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfac=
eset-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black">Hello Acee,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">&gt; If Route Targets were adopted to Flow=
 Spec, wouldn=92t that&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','san=
s-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">&gt; be the BGP answer to this problem?</s=
pan><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?&=
nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Route target is just an extended community=
 and like any other SAFI can be used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is=
 up to implementation to allow any filtering
 based on regular/extended/wide communities.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FON=
T-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Just FYI RFC already spells out case of us=
ing flow spec routes in the VPN filtering application based on RT import:</=
span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by=
 matching Route Target<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">extended communities associated with the =
BGP path advertisement with the VRF import policy, using the same mechanism=
 as describein &quot;BGP/MPLS IP VPNs&quot; [<a href=3D"http://www.armware.=
dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html" target=3D"_blank">RFC4364</a>] .<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.&nbsp;<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">So can you elaborate what does it mean to =
&quot;adopt RTs to Flow Spec&quot; ?&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY=
: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=
=92t route-targets alone be enough to satisfy the requirement for flow spec=
 NLRI applying to a specific node or set
 of nodes?&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #888888; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #888888; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Regards,</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:=
 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Robert.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lind=
em (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Hi Stephane,&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black=
; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Stephane Litkowski &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">stepha=
ne.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset=
-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">In Dallas, we presented=
 an update of draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push=
 flowspec rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">We took into account th=
e comment we had in Toronto but there was no new comment. Last discussion w=
as about putting the interface group within the NLRI which is causing some =
issue, especially for interAS, so keeping
 it as community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some specif=
ic cases.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">I would like to restart=
 the discussion on this draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Do you think the techni=
cal proposal is right ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">I believe this is a valuable extension to =
RFC 5575 and this seems to be the right direction.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Do you think that the g=
roup ID space is large enough ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">I think 16K is plenty for the use cases pr=
esented in this draft.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">One concern I have (not=
 a big one), is that all routers will receive all the flowspec routes even =
if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse some RT based solution (an=
d RT filtering), but RT may conflict
 with Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear =
from implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying int=
erfaces groups on the same route.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">This problem existed with RFC 5575. I gues=
s what you are anticipating advertising more rules now that you have this l=
evel of granularity?&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Do we need to enlarge t=
he application of this mechanism to a =93SDN=94 API, like Openflow ? Progra=
mming flows on a specific node, or specific group of node.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec=
, wouldn=92t that be the BGP answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spe=
c is better suited to filtering than generalized
 traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing provides a more s=
calable solution.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">Acee&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 4.5pt=
 solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT: med=
ium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
bsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Brgds,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><u></u><u></u></span>&n=
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From: "Nicolas Fevrier (nifevrie)" <nifevrie@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Hi Robert,
A comment on the number of groups needed.

it would be useful to differentiate interfaces based on bandwidth.
Example: a rate-limit action is expressed in bps, not in interface
bandwidth percent.=20
=8B> a 500Mbps policer will be applied on 10G, 100G or n times 10/100G
indifferently.
With multiple groups, we can define a policer at 5% (500Mbps when applied
on 10G, 5G when applied on 100G etc...)

Also, you may want to apply different rules to different peering or
transit partners.

Cheers,
N.


From:  Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk
<robert@raszuk.net>
Date:  Tuesday 4 August 2015 12:25
To:  "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Cc:  "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject:  Re: [Idr] Progressing
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01


What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you
have interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings
in total which could be well served by standard bgp community marking
(which is already in place for various other
 policy filtering reasons today in all serious networks).

How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?

RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In
such a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces
under sort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and
FIB for forwarding). Then (and this is maybe
 what Acee had in mind in the first place) you do not need any flow spec
extensions :) You just apply vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you
like and import filtering rules based on the RT under global vrf-filter
foo section.=20

Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Only
thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.

The config would look like this:

vrf-filter foo
import rt "peers"

int Ge0/1
vrf-filter foo

Et voil=E0 ;)


Cheers,

Robert.



On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:

Why do you think RT is too big for this ? RT is used for more and more
applications. Here we want to express a group membership which is
precisely what RT does.
=20
From:rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41
To: Acee Lindem (acee)
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF;
idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

=20
Hi Acee,

=20

Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.

=20

Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple route
map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that
using new registered wide community could be
 another alternative.

=20

However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual
route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or would
not apply. Also unless you put interfaces
 in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the draft) it
seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface
concept and they act in "global space". With that in mind if we are to add
this per interface scope we may as
 well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by
flow-spec.=20

=20

- - -

=20

So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good
awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to
remove a little bit of provisioning.

=20

It is up to the WG to decide if this "little bit" justifies standards
track RFC :)

=20

Best,

r.

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20


=20
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Robert,=20

=20

From:
<rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org"
<idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

=20


Hello Acee,

=20

> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=B9t that

> be the BGP answer to this problem?

=20

Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?

=20

Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be
used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow
any filtering
 based on regular/extended/wide communities.

=20

Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN
filtering application based on RT import:

=20

Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Targetextended
communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VRF import
policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs" [RFC4364
<http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .





Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.

=20

=20

=20


So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?






=20

Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=B9t route-targets alone be enough
to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node
or set of
 nodes?=20

=20

Acee


=20

=20

Regards,

Robert.

=20

=20


=20
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Stephane,=20

=20

From:
Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephane Litkowski
<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

=20


Hi,
=20
In Dallas, we presented an update of
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec
rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.
We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new
comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the
NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping
 it as community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some
specific cases.
=20
I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.
=20
Do you think the technical proposal is right ?





=20

I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be
the right direction.

=20

=20


Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?





=20

I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.

=20


=20
One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all
the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse
some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict
 with Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear
from implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying
interfaces groups on the same route.





=20

This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating
advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?

=20


=20
Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =B3SDN=B2 API,
like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group of
node.





=20

If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=B9t that be the BGP
answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to
filtering than generalized
 traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing provides a more
scalable solution.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20


=20
=20
Brgds,
=20
Stephane
=20

___________________________________________________________________________
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signalera l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,Orange decline
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie.
Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
privileged information that may be protected by law;they should not be
distributed, used or copied without authorisation.If you have received
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and
its attachments.As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for
messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.Thank you.





_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=20









=20




___________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou
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If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:51:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:53:58 +0000
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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The draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation (7/19 to 8/2) has
passed WG adoption call.    Please note this draft will be listed in the WG
drafts, but the draft will not be forwarded to the IESG.  Instead the
content of this draft will be added to the IDR WG Wiki pages.   

 

 

Sue  Hares 


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draft-jasinska-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation (7/19 to 8/2) has =
passed WG adoption call.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please note this draft will =
be listed in the WG drafts, but the draft will not be forwarded to the =
IESG.&nbsp; Instead the content of this draft will be added to the IDR =
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From: "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>
To: "'Nicolas Fevrier (nifevrie)'" <nifevrie@cisco.com>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>, "'<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>'" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Cc: "'idr@ietf.org'" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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I had a similar notion back in 2008, conceptually be able to create a VRF p=
rojection, so that different interfaces could consult a series of projectio=
ns/cuts to make a forwarding decision.  I had also believed that modifying =
the logic of a CUG to create the "and" instead of "or" could be useful in g=
rouping

Jim Uttaro

-----Original Message-----
From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Fevrier (nifev=
rie)
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 6:54 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

Hi Robert,
A comment on the number of groups needed.

it would be useful to differentiate interfaces based on bandwidth.
Example: a rate-limit action is expressed in bps, not in interface
bandwidth percent.=20
<> a 500Mbps policer will be applied on 10G, 100G or n times 10/100G
indifferently.
With multiple groups, we can define a policer at 5% (500Mbps when applied
on 10G, 5G when applied on 100G etc...)

Also, you may want to apply different rules to different peering or
transit partners.

Cheers,
N.


From:  Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk
<robert@raszuk.net>
Date:  Tuesday 4 August 2015 12:25
To:  "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Cc:  "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject:  Re: [Idr] Progressing
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01


What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you
have interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings
in total which could be well served by standard bgp community marking
(which is already in place for various other
 policy filtering reasons today in all serious networks).

How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?

RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In
such a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces
under sort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and
FIB for forwarding). Then (and this is maybe
 what Acee had in mind in the first place) you do not need any flow spec
extensions :) You just apply vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you
like and import filtering rules based on the RT under global vrf-filter
foo section.=20

Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Only
thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.

The config would look like this:

vrf-filter foo
import rt "peers"

int Ge0/1
vrf-filter foo

Et voil=E0 ;)


Cheers,

Robert.



On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:

Why do you think RT is too big for this ? RT is used for more and more
applications. Here we want to express a group membership which is
precisely what RT does.
=20
From:rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41
To: Acee Lindem (acee)
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF;
idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>

Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

=20
Hi Acee,

=20

Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.

=20

Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple route
map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that
using new registered wide community could be
 another alternative.

=20

However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual
route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or would
not apply. Also unless you put interfaces
 in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the draft) it
seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface
concept and they act in "global space". With that in mind if we are to add
this per interface scope we may as
 well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by
flow-spec.=20

=20

- - -

=20

So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good
awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to
remove a little bit of provisioning.

=20

It is up to the WG to decide if this "little bit" justifies standards
track RFC :)

=20

Best,

r.

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20


=20
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Robert,=20

=20

From:
<rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org"
<idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

=20


Hello Acee,

=20

> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=B9t that

> be the BGP answer to this problem?

=20

Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?

=20

Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be
used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow
any filtering
 based on regular/extended/wide communities.

=20

Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN
filtering application based on RT import:

=20

Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Targetextended
communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VRF import
policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs" [RFC4364
<http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .





Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.

=20

=20

=20


So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?






=20

Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=B9t route-targets alone be enough
to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node
or set of
 nodes?=20

=20

Acee


=20

=20

Regards,

Robert.

=20

=20


=20
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Stephane,=20

=20

From:
Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephane Litkowski
<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

=20


Hi,
=20
In Dallas, we presented an update of
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec
rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.
We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new
comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the
NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping
 it as community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some
specific cases.
=20
I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.
=20
Do you think the technical proposal is right ?





=20

I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be
the right direction.

=20

=20


Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?





=20

I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.

=20


=20
One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all
the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse
some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict
 with Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hear
from implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying
interfaces groups on the same route.





=20

This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating
advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?

=20


=20
Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =B3SDN=B2 API,
like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group of
node.





=20

If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=B9t that be the BGP
answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to
filtering than generalized
 traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing provides a more
scalable solution.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20


=20
=20
Brgds,
=20
Stephane
=20

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=20









=20




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Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Multi-VRF.V1.ppt"; size=67072;
	creation-date="Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:25:25 GMT";
	modification-date="Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:29:44 GMT"
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--_003_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550F0CBEF091MISOUT7MSGUSRCD_--


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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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--e89a8f64720f5f242e051c7db9d6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> [SLI] Associating RT to VRF is true for a VPN environment. I don=E2=80=99=
t
> see why we could not associate a RT to something else (another
> target).

Of course we can.

But imagine that you are peering inter-as option B or C and your party
agrees to use your RTs for VPN memebership. However their interface
grouping is different then yours.

So rather then filtering by RT value they will be much easier to filter by
some other code point of extended community type dropping all interface
groups you may have. In fact Interface Grouping should perhaps be non
transitive in the AS scope to start with.

We have plenty of those codepoints available for new type so I am really
not sure if putting more and more different functionality on RTs is a good
way to go.

Why not to define explicitly new type say (transitive 0x09 and non
transitive 0x45) IG Interface Grouping extended community ?

Best,
r.

--e89a8f64720f5f242e051c7db9d6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; [SLI] Associating RT to VRF i=
s true for a VPN environment. I don=E2=80=99t=C2=A0</span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; see why we could not associate a RT to =
something else (another=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.666666984=
5581px">&gt; target).</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581=
px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)=
;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">Of course we =
can.=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,12=
5);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">But imagine that you are pee=
ring inter-as option B or C and your party agrees to use your RTs for VPN m=
emebership. However their interface grouping is different then yours.=C2=A0=
</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">So rather then filtering by RT value t=
hey will be much easier to filter by some other code point of extended comm=
unity type dropping all interface groups you may have. In fact Interface Gr=
ouping should perhaps be non transitive in the AS scope to start with.=C2=
=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">We have plenty of those codepoints =
available for new type so I am really not sure if putting more and more dif=
ferent functionality on RTs is a good way to go.=C2=A0</span></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:14.6666669845581px">Why not to define=C2=A0explicitly=C2=A0new type =
say (transitive 0x09 and non transitive 0x45) IG Interface Grouping extende=
d community ?=C2=A0</span></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845=
581px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,1=
25);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">Best,</spa=
n></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">r.</span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div></div>

--e89a8f64720f5f242e051c7db9d6--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Hi Jim,

Yes indeed what I just provided in the sample 4 line of configs is basic
functionality which you are describing.

But this may be simpler to accomplish today then it may seem :)

Imagine you create a set of logical interfaces (loopbacks) and assign them
to your special function VRFs. All vanilla as we know today.

Then you apply vrf-chaining with the last VRF being the global vrf or
regular VPN vrf where you would perform normal lookup.

The above construct allows you to special handle N levels of various
functionality over basic "direct" forwarding.

Nothing here seems to be requiring IETF action other then perhaps short
informational draft as it is just vendor functionality of vrf-chaining
which is needed here.

Cheers,
Robert.







On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:05 PM, UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com> wrote:

> I had a similar notion back in 2008, conceptually be able to create a VRF
> projection, so that different interfaces could consult a series of
> projections/cuts to make a forwarding decision.  I had also believed that
> modifying the logic of a CUG to create the "and" instead of "or" could be
> useful in grouping
>
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Fevrier
> (nifevrie)
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 6:54 AM
> To: Robert Raszuk; <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-=
01
>
> Hi Robert,
> A comment on the number of groups needed.
>
> it would be useful to differentiate interfaces based on bandwidth.
> Example: a rate-limit action is expressed in bps, not in interface
> bandwidth percent.
> <> a 500Mbps policer will be applied on 10G, 100G or n times 10/100G
> indifferently.
> With multiple groups, we can define a policer at 5% (500Mbps when applied
> on 10G, 5G when applied on 100G etc...)
>
> Also, you may want to apply different rules to different peering or
> transit partners.
>
> Cheers,
> N.
>
>
> From:  Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk
> <robert@raszuk.net>
> Date:  Tuesday 4 August 2015 12:25
> To:  "<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
> Cc:  "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject:  Re: [Idr] Progressing
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
>
> What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you
> have interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings
> in total which could be well served by standard bgp community marking
> (which is already in place for various other
>  policy filtering reasons today in all serious networks).
>
> How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?
>
> RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In
> such a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces
> under sort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and
> FIB for forwarding). Then (and this is maybe
>  what Acee had in mind in the first place) you do not need any flow spec
> extensions :) You just apply vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you
> like and import filtering rules based on the RT under global vrf-filter
> foo section.
>
> Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Onl=
y
> thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.
>
> The config would look like this:
>
> vrf-filter foo
> import rt "peers"
>
> int Ge0/1
> vrf-filter foo
>
> Et voil=C3=A0 ;)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Why do you think RT is too big for this ? RT is used for more and more
> applications. Here we want to express a group membership which is
> precisely what RT does.
>
> From:rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41
> To: Acee Lindem (acee)
> Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF;
> idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-=
01
>
>
> Hi Acee,
>
>
>
> Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.
>
>
>
> Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple rout=
e
> map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that
> using new registered wide community could be
>  another alternative.
>
>
>
> However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual
> route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or woul=
d
> not apply. Also unless you put interfaces
>  in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the draft) i=
t
> seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface
> concept and they act in "global space". With that in mind if we are to ad=
d
> this per interface scope we may as
>  well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by
> flow-spec.
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator's good
> awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to
> remove a little bit of provisioning.
>
>
>
> It is up to the WG to decide if this "little bit" justifies standards
> track RFC :)
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> r.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> From:
> <rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> Cc: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org"
> <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-=
01
>
>
>
>
> Hello Acee,
>
>
>
> > If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=C2=B9t that
>
> > be the BGP answer to this problem?
>
>
>
> Can't resist to ask .. what do you mean ?
>
>
>
> Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be
> used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow
> any filtering
>  based on regular/extended/wide communities.
>
>
>
> Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN
> filtering application based on RT import:
>
>
>
> Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Targetextended
> communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VRF impor=
t
> policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs" [RFC436=
4
> <http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So can you elaborate what does it mean to "adopt RTs to Flow Spec" ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=C2=B9t route-targets alone be e=
nough
> to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node
> or set of
>  nodes?
>
>
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> Hi Stephane,
>
>
>
> From:
> Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephane Litkowski
> <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
> Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM
> To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> In Dallas, we presented an update of
> draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec
> rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.
> We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new
> comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the
> NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping
>  it as community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some
> specific cases.
>
> I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.
>
> Do you think the technical proposal is right ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be
> the right direction.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.
>
>
>
>
>
> One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all
> the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse
> some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict
>  with Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to hea=
r
> from implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying
> interfaces groups on the same route.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating
> advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?
>
>
>
>
>
> Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =C2=B3SDN=C2=
=B2 API,
> like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group o=
f
> node.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=C2=B9t that be the BGP
> answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to
> filtering than generalized
>  traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing provides a more
> scalable solution.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Brgds,
>
> Stephane
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Jim,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">Yes indeed what I just provided in the sample 4 line =
of configs is basic functionality which you are describing.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">But this may be simpler to accomplish=
 today then it may seem :)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all">Imagine you create a set of logical interfaces (loopbacks) and assign =
them to your special function VRFs. All vanilla as we know today.=C2=A0</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Then you apply vrf-chaini=
ng with the last VRF being the global vrf or regular VPN vrf where you woul=
d perform normal lookup.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">The above construct allows you to special handle N levels of vario=
us functionality over basic &quot;direct&quot; forwarding.=C2=A0</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Nothing here seems to be requiri=
ng IETF action other then perhaps short informational draft as it is just v=
endor functionality of vrf-chaining which is needed here.=C2=A0</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheers,<br>Robert.</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:05 PM, UTTARO, JAMES <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ju1738@att.com" target=3D"_blank">ju1738@att.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I had a similar notion back in=
 2008, conceptually be able to create a VRF projection, so that different i=
nterfaces could consult a series of projections/cuts to make a forwarding d=
ecision.=C2=A0 I had also believed that modifying the logic of a CUG to cre=
ate the &quot;and&quot; instead of &quot;or&quot; could be useful in groupi=
ng<br>
<br>
Jim Uttaro<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Idr [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] On Behalf Of Nicolas Fevrier (nifevrie)<br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 6:54 AM<br>
To: Robert Raszuk; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com">ste=
phane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01=
<br>
<br>
Hi Robert,<br>
A comment on the number of groups needed.<br>
<br>
it would be useful to differentiate interfaces based on bandwidth.<br>
Example: a rate-limit action is expressed in bps, not in interface<br>
bandwidth percent.<br>
&lt;&gt; a 500Mbps policer will be applied on 10G, 100G or n times 10/100G<=
br>
indifferently.<br>
With multiple groups, we can define a policer at 5% (500Mbps when applied<b=
r>
on 10G, 5G when applied on 100G etc...)<br>
<br>
Also, you may want to apply different rules to different peering or<br>
transit partners.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
N.<br>
<br>
<br>
From:=C2=A0 Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@iet=
f.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Robert Raszuk<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
Date:=C2=A0 Tuesday 4 August 2015 12:25<br>
To:=C2=A0 &quot;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com">stepha=
ne.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkow=
ski@orange.com">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc:=C2=A0 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject:=C2=A0 Re: [Idr] Progressing<br>
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01<br>
<br>
<br>
What I meant RT being too big was based on the fact that typically you<br>
have interfaces facing customers, peers or upstreams. So three groupings<br=
>
in total which could be well served by standard bgp community marking<br>
(which is already in place for various other<br>
=C2=A0policy filtering reasons today in all serious networks).<br>
<br>
How many groups do you envision to have for pushing the filtering around?<b=
r>
<br>
RT can be used if you reuse concept of importing filters into VRFs. In<br>
such a case suppose an implementation would allow you to put interfaces<br>
under sort of virtual VRFs for filtering only (nothing to do with RIB and<b=
r>
FIB for forwarding). Then (and this is maybe<br>
=C2=A0what Acee had in mind in the first place) you do not need any flow sp=
ec<br>
extensions :) You just apply vrf-filter command on set of interfaces you<br=
>
like and import filtering rules based on the RT under global vrf-filter<br>
foo section.<br>
<br>
Such import should be already supported in all implementations today. Only<=
br>
thing is missing is the infra part of the vendor of your choice.<br>
<br>
The config would look like this:<br>
<br>
vrf-filter foo<br>
import rt &quot;peers&quot;<br>
<br>
int Ge0/1<br>
vrf-filter foo<br>
<br>
Et voil=C3=A0 ;)<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:37 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@o=
range.com">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Why do you think RT is too big for this ? RT is used for more and more<br>
applications. Here we want to express a group membership which is<br>
precisely what RT does.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:From%3Arraszuk@gmail.com">From:rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mai=
lto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk<br>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 23:41<br>
To: Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF;<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01=
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Acee,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Personally I think RT is too big of a cannon for this application.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Simple regular community coloring would be more then fine + a simple route<=
br>
map. I did tell this to Stephane in the past. So I also mentioned that<br>
using new registered wide community could be<br>
=C2=A0another alternative.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
However his point is to automate the filtering and not bother with manual<b=
r>
route-maps/policy on all the edges to filter where flowspec would or would<=
br>
not apply. Also unless you put interfaces<br>
=C2=A0in the vrfs (which is too limiting to the case described in the draft=
) it<br>
seems that some implementations of flow spec do not have a per interface<br=
>
concept and they act in &quot;global space&quot;. With that in mind if we a=
re to add<br>
this per interface scope we may as<br>
=C2=A0well add the proposed grouping and verbatim send it as recognized by<=
br>
flow-spec.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
- - -<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So other then partial deployment problem which requires operator&#39;s good=
<br>
awareness of what which box supports I see this proposal as helpful to<br>
remove a little bit of provisioning.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It is up to the WG to decide if this &quot;little bit&quot; justifies stand=
ards<br>
track RFC :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
r.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
Hi Robert,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From:<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; on behal=
f of Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.n=
et</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:21 PM<br>
To: Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;<br>
Cc: Stephane Litkowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com"=
>stephane.litkowski@orange.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.or=
g">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot;<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01=
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Acee,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=C2=B9t that<br>
<br>
&gt; be the BGP answer to this problem?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Can&#39;t resist to ask .. what do you mean ?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be<b=
r>
used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow<b=
r>
any filtering<br>
=C2=A0based on regular/extended/wide communities.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN<b=
r>
filtering application based on RT import:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Targetextended<br>
communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VRF import<=
br>
policy, using the same mechanism as describein &quot;BGP/MPLS IP VPNs&quot;=
 [RFC4364<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html</a>&gt;] .<=
br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So can you elaborate what does it mean to &quot;adopt RTs to Flow Spec&quot=
; ?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Given that they already apply ;^), wouldn=C2=B9t route-targets alone be eno=
ugh<br>
to satisfy the requirement for flow spec NLRI applying to a specific node<b=
r>
or set of<br>
=C2=A0nodes?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Acee<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Robert.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
Hi Stephane,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From:<br>
Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt=
; on behalf of Stephane Litkowski<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com">stephane.litkowski@ora=
nge.com</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
In Dallas, we presented an update of<br>
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset which allow to push flowspec<br>
rules to a specific set of interfaces identified by a group ID.<br>
We took into account the comment we had in Toronto but there was no new<br>
comment. Last discussion was about putting the interface group within the<b=
r>
NLRI which is causing some issue, especially for interAS, so keeping<br>
=C2=A0it as community looks better even if we need to use ADDPATH in some<b=
r>
specific cases.<br>
<br>
I would like to restart the discussion on this draft.<br>
<br>
Do you think the technical proposal is right ?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I believe this is a valuable extension to RFC 5575 and this seems to be<br>
the right direction.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do you think that the group ID space is large enough ?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I think 16K is plenty for the use cases presented in this draft.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
One concern I have (not a big one), is that all routers will receive all<br=
>
the flowspec routes even if they do not need it. I would be good to reuse<b=
r>
some RT based solution (and RT filtering), but RT may conflict<br>
=C2=A0with Flowspec VPN, so special care are required, and I would like to =
hear<br>
from implementors about having RTs identifying VPNs and RTs identifying<br>
interfaces groups on the same route.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This problem existed with RFC 5575. I guess what you are anticipating<br>
advertising more rules now that you have this level of granularity?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do we need to enlarge the application of this mechanism to a =C2=B3SDN=C2=
=B2 API,<br>
like Openflow ? Programming flows on a specific node, or specific group of<=
br>
node.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If Route Targets were adopted to Flow Spec, wouldn=C2=B9t that be the BGP<b=
r>
answer to this problem? Also, I think Flow Spec is better suited to<br>
filtering than generalized<br>
=C2=A0traffic engineering. Furthermore, I feel segment routing provides a m=
ore<br>
scalable solution.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Acee<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Brgds,<br>
<br>
Stephane<br>
<br>
<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
<br>
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Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations<br>
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou<=
br>
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--f46d0438eb9ff2c2b3051c7de0f6--


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Subject: [Idr] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC2385 (4432)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC2385,
"Protection of BGP Sessions via the TCP MD5 Signature Option".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=2385&eid=4432

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Florin Frigioiu <florin.frigioiu@gmail.com>

Section: 4.3

Original Text
-------------
   The total header size is also an issue.  The TCP header specifies
   where segment data starts with a 4-bit field which gives the total
   size of the header (including options) in 32-byte words.  This means
   that the total size of the header plus option must be less than or
   equal to 60 bytes -- this leaves 40 bytes for options.


Corrected Text
--------------
   The total header size is also an issue.  The TCP header specifies
   where segment data starts with a 4-bit field which gives the total
   size of the header (including options) in 32-bit words.  This means
   that the total size of the header plus option must be less than or
   equal to 60 bytes -- this leaves 40 bytes for options.


Notes
-----
Correction for '32-byte words' to '32-bit words'.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC2385 (no draft string recorded)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Protection of BGP Sessions via the TCP MD5 Signature Option
Publication Date    : August 1998
Author(s)           : A. Heffernan
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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--_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BE032OPEXCLILMA4corp_--


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The following errata report has been held for document update 
for RFC2385, "Protection of BGP Sessions via the TCP MD5 Signature Option". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=2385&eid=4432

--------------------------------------
Status: Held for Document Update
Type: Technical

Reported by: Florin Frigioiu <florin.frigioiu@gmail.com>
Date Reported: 2015-08-04
Held by: Alvaro Retana (IESG)

Section: 4.3

Original Text
-------------
   The total header size is also an issue.  The TCP header specifies
   where segment data starts with a 4-bit field which gives the total
   size of the header (including options) in 32-byte words.  This means
   that the total size of the header plus option must be less than or
   equal to 60 bytes -- this leaves 40 bytes for options.


Corrected Text
--------------
   The total header size is also an issue.  The TCP header specifies
   where segment data starts with a 4-bit field which gives the total
   size of the header (including options) in 32-bit words.  This means
   that the total size of the header plus option must be less than or
   equal to 60 bytes -- this leaves 40 bytes for options.


Notes
-----
Correction for '32-byte words' to '32-bit words'.

--------------------------------------
RFC2385 (no draft string recorded)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Protection of BGP Sessions via the TCP MD5 Signature Option
Publication Date    : August 1998
Author(s)           : A. Heffernan
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [Idr] RFC 7607 on Codification of AS 0 Processing
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7607

        Title:      Codification of AS 0 Processing 
        Author:     W. Kumari, R. Bush,
                    H. Schiller, K. Patel
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       August 2015
        Mailbox:    warren@kumari.net, 
                    randy@psg.com, 
                    has@google.com, 
                    keyupate@cisco.com
        Pages:      5
        Characters: 9113
        Updates:    RFC 4271

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-idr-as0-06.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7607

        DOI:        http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7607

This document updates RFC 4271 and proscribes the use of Autonomous
System (AS) 0 in the Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) OPEN, AS_PATH,
AS4_PATH, AGGREGATOR, and AS4_AGGREGATOR attributes in the BGP UPDATE
message.

This document is a product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the 
standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution of this 
memo is unlimited.

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The RFC Editor Team
Association Management Solutions, LLC



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute without the BGP Encapsulation SAFI
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Gunter Van de Velde
	Filename        : draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03.txt
	Pages           : 29
	Date            : 2015-08-06

Abstract:
   RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
   Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
   of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide
   additional information used to create a tunnel and the corresponding
   encapsulation header, and can also provide information that aids in
   choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent through a
   particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is only
   carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
   Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document updates RFC 5512
   by deprecating the Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used),and
   by specifying semantics for the attribute when it is carried in
   UPDATEs of certain other SAFIs.  This document also extends the
   attribute by enabling it to carry additional information needed to
   create the encapsulation headers additional tunnel types not
   mentioned in RFC 5512.  Finally, this document also extends the
   attribute by allowing it to specify a remote tunnel endpoint address
   for each tunnel.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Aug  6 18:51:02 2015
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From: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
To: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>, "i-d-announce@ietf.org" <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03.txt
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Hi co-authors,

Thanks for this update which looks much better.

I still have three questions as follows:

1. This draft assumes that NVGRE adopts the same approach to carrying IP tr=
affic as VXLAN. However, NVGRE has a protocol field and therefore it could =
directly carry IP traffic w/o adding the fake Ethernet header between the I=
P payload and the GRE header (see https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo=
3/current/msg01520.html and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yong-l3vpn-nvg=
re-vxlan-encap-03#page-3.) Hence, how about considering the simpler layer3 =
overlay for NVGRE?

2. It said "...Note that if none of the TLVs specifies the MPLS tunnel type=
, a Label
   Switched Path SHOULD NOT be used." IMO, since the LSP is signaled by lab=
el distribution protocols such as LDP, RSVP-TE or L-BGP, why is it still ne=
cessary to specify the tunnel encapsulation attribute to indicate whether o=
r not an LSP should be used.

3. Since this draft has mentioned the encapsulation of MPLS over VXLAN/NVGR=
E, would you please give any clue to the scenario of this special encapsula=
tion?

Best regards,
Xiaohu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 3:18 AM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
>  This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of t=
he
> IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
> without the BGP Encapsulation SAFI
>         Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
>                           Keyur Patel
>                           Gunter Van de Velde
> 	Filename        : draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 29
> 	Date            : 2015-08-06
>=20
> Abstract:
>    RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
>    Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
>    of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide
>    additional information used to create a tunnel and the corresponding
>    encapsulation header, and can also provide information that aids in
>    choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent through a
>    particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is only
>    carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
>    Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document updates RFC 5512
>    by deprecating the Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used),and
>    by specifying semantics for the attribute when it is carried in
>    UPDATEs of certain other SAFIs.  This document also extends the
>    attribute by enabling it to carry additional information needed to
>    create the encapsulation headers additional tunnel types not
>    mentioned in RFC 5512.  Finally, this document also extends the
>    attribute by allowing it to specify a remote tunnel endpoint address
>    for each tunnel.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps-03
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From nobody Sat Aug  8 03:25:23 2015
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call - draft-keyupate-idr-bgp-prefix-sid (7/20 to 8/3)
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> >> We would appreciate if you would answer the following questions:

> >> 1)      Do you know of networks where this new BGP feature would
> useful?
> >> 2)      Do you know of any technical issues with this draft?

1 -- Yes
2 -- More than one

Support.

:-)

Russ


From nobody Sat Aug  8 03:34:30 2015
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--_000_D1EB53152A96Eaceeciscocom_--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal
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/* First this discussion does not belong to BESS WG but to IDR, Readjusting
the mail alias */

DT,

> But this proposal more significant to tier 2 and tier 3 ISPs who have
multi-homing
> with long distance upstream ISPs.

Those tier-2 and tier-3 ISPs today are using BGP policy and based on pretty
simple match
of AS_PATH content can influence best path selection in their ASes without
any need for
new BGP extensions.

BGP tools to be used: weight, local pref or cost community.

The values for the metrics can be coming with offline (server based)
measurements if they
are to be dynamic or can be  set statically. For enforcing that set of
probe data will exit via
required links EPE may come handy.


> I propose, each border router need to check delay to eBGP neighbor every
15 min interval.

Please be consistent. In previous mail you said:

"2. Manually configure  binding to remote AS."

Are you expecting operator to readjust configuration every 15 min ???


> I decide to continue research on this aspect.

You are clearly free to conduct research on any topic. However please be
informed
that perhaps a better target for your research may be IRTF or SIGCOMM.

regards,
R.



On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk>
wrote:

> Raszuk,
>
>
>
> Please find my comments inline.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duleep
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 8, 2015 3:05 PM
> *To:* Duleep Thilakarathne
> *Cc:* Richard Li; UTTARO, JAMES; bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Hi Thilakarathne,
>
>
>
> Point #1:
>
>
>
> What makes you think that 10 ms over 1 GB ethernet peering is any better
> then 20 ms RTT over 100 GB ? I would really prefer to get routed over 100
> GB peerings even if the RTT would be doubled.
>
>
>
> Your preference may correct theoretically or in a different scenario othe=
r
> than ISP environment. ISPs need to pay for links and link capacity decide=
d
> based on the traffic requirement and several other factors. There are non=
e
> pay scenarios in ISP peering but I am not going to explain as it is
> irrelevant to this discussion. ISPs setup multiple links with multiple
> capacities in order to achieve several targets. Redundancy, low latency a=
re
> few of them. Further ISPs advertise IPs to all upstream in order to get
> redundancy unless there is no special reason. Therefore there is high
> possibility to select so called 10ms 1GB link than 100 GB 20ms link for
> particular IP blocks in ISP environment.
>
>
>
> I will try to explain the scenario I am trying to address again since you
> have not understand it clearly.
>
>
>
>
>
> Assume particular tier 3 ISP in Asia (say ISP A) has 10 GB link to USA PO=
P
> and 1G link to Asia POP. Web hosting provider  based on Asia advertise it=
s
> IP block through BGP and ISP A receives web hosting provider IP block fro=
m
> both paths. Assume in this case AS PATH length is equal. Then how does
> router select best outgoing path. According to you, if router selects 10G
> link, all traffic route to USA and come back to Asia. It is not desired
> path. My proposal is to decide best path in such a scenario and not in
> general BGP scenario. My proposal try to prevent random route selection
> using new end to end BGP attribute.
>
> If router has another end to end BGP attribute other than AS-PATH , route=
r
> can consider it during tie condition. Other attribute I propose is delay
> between AS which is proportional to geographic distance.
>
> Further this proposal may not have more significance, if eBGP peer reside=
s
> short geographic distance. For example same state in USA. But this propos=
al
> more significant to tier 2 and tier 3 ISPs who have multi-homing with lon=
g
> distance upstream ISPs.
>
>
>
> Point #2:
>
>
>
> > There is no reqirment to synchronize different administrative
>
> > domains since router itself automatically calculate value and
>
> > add when routes  advertised similar to AS PATH addition
>
> > operation.
>
>
>
> Sorry to ruin your impression about power and intelligence of routers, bu=
t
> they only do what they are programmed to do.
>
>
>
> So Jim's point about synchronizing metrics is still valid. Of course I
> assume that for you the only metric you consider here are milliseconds an=
d
> therefor do not bother.
>
>
>
> Imagine one operator chooses to use physical distance and other RTT. So i=
n
> the new attribute you will get time [ms] vs distance [miles]. Yet one mor=
e
> will also use distance buy expressed in kilometers. Please elaborate how
> useful such comparison will turn out to be ?
>
>
>
> I am not oppose to Jim=E2=80=99s point on synchronizing. What I want to h=
ighlight
> is that synchronizing is not required for the attribute proposed by me.
> present routers program to select outgoing path based on random parameter
> when AS-PATH length is equal (other conditions after AS length check may
> not have more significance). My suggestion is to change the program in su=
ch
> scenario. This will prevent random route selection which router programed
> to do.
>
>
>
> Proposed attribute can use either length in km or delay in milliseconds.
> This need decide and include in the RFC.  but there is a relationship
> between delay and distance to eBGP peer . Practically  south Asian ISP ca=
n
> achieve around 30ms two way delay to  Singapore POP and 300ms to USA POP.
> We can find cable distance if required.
>
>
>
>
>
> Point #3:
>
>
>
> As you are suggesting use of ICMP to measure RTT please keep in mind that
> ICMP is not high priority protocol. It may wait in the remote or local
> router for processing much more then the propagation delay of the link it
> arrived on.
>
>
>
> I am open in this comment. ICMP or TCP delay can be used. Based on my
> experience even ICMP is not give big issue as most of border routers are
> carrier grade. 5% to 10% delay variation may not affect to route selectio=
n
> decision.
>
>
>
> Point #4:
>
>
>
> How often do you plan to remeasure the eBGP propagation ? Note that today
> many optical long haul transmission is hidden from ASBRs. That means that
> your provider of long distance connection may at will reroute you via his
> own web of fiber which does affect RTT. So it is pretty safe to assume wh=
at
> you have measured yesterday today is irrelevant.
>
>
>
> I propose, each border router need to check delay to eBGP neighbor every
> 15 min interval. If routers detects 25% delay difference to previous dela=
y
> value, router triggers BGP update message. if not, no update message
> triggers. Optical long haul transmission will not have big issue in
> practical scenarios as SLAs exists. They are free to change backhaul path
> as long as delay does not change significantly. If delay changes
> significantly,  it address separately and business cannot exists.
>
>
>
> As I described earlier this proposal has much significance when ISPs have
> large geographic separation.
>
>
>
> Point #5:
>
>
>
> eBGP propagation may be few orders of magnitude less relevant as
> propagation within each AS path is traversing. And except the case of few
> ASes under the same administration we do not have a way to express that o=
ne
> today except AIGP attribute.
>
>
>
> AIGP RFC clearly mentioned , it is proposed  for single administrative
> domain.  I am talking about different administrative domains and eBGP.
>
>
>
> So if you would like to continue your research perhaps looking at that
> aspect first may be more valuable ....
>
>
>
> Since you have not understood practical issue  and solution I am
> explaining and you have not provided valid reason to change my research
> ,still I decide to continue research on this aspect.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk>
> wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
>
>
> Yes I am referring eBGP scenario. I suggest distance calculations based o=
n
>
>
>
> 1. ICMP delay between eBGP speakers.
>
> 2. Manually configure  binding to remote AS.
>
>
>
>
>
> Each eBGP speaking routers need to accumulate  distance value when
> advertised routes to external peer.There is no reqirment to synchronize
> different administrative domains since router itself automatically
> calculate value and add when routes  advertised similar to AS PATH additi=
on
> operation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Richard Li" <renwei.li@huawei.com>
> To: "Duleep Thilakarathne" <duleept@Mobitel.lk>, "UTTARO, JAMES" <
> ju1738@att.com>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>
> Cc: "'bess@ietf.org'" <bess@ietf.org>
> Subject: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance when
> AS_PATH are equal
>
> Date: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 10:11 PM
>
>
>
> There might be a good point here. RFC 7311 only takes care of the IGP
> metrics. But In Duleep=E2=80=99s example, the metrics between two eBGP sp=
eakers are
> not taken into consideration. In order to have AIGP attribute to really
> represent the accumulated one, the metrics on such links should be
> considered as well. However, there might be some challenges or obstacles:
> The way to configure one metrics on the link between two eBGP speakers
> might not be consistent with the way to configure another metrics on the
> another link between two speakers.
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Duleep
> Thilakarathne
> *Sent:* Friday, August 07, 2015 8:41 AM
> *To:* UTTARO, JAMES; 'Robert Raszuk'
> *Cc:* 'bess@ietf.org'
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Jim,
>
>
>
>
>
> What I want to suggest is to insert item 5 (refer below items listed) to
> BGP best path selection algorithm. Once AS-PATH length is equal, next we
> can think on how to select best outgoing interface. If we don=E2=80=99t s=
elect
> proper outgoing interface it will affect to latency. I am talking this
> based on practical experience I have in ISP environment. There are severa=
l
> options to select best outgoing interface when AS-PATH are equal.  In thi=
s
> case I suggest geo distance to destination. Following are options to
> calculate geo distance. Router selects outgoing interface with lowest GEO
> distance to destination.
>
>
>
> 1. BGP speaking router can add distance when advertise to route to
> upstream similar to AS-PATH attribute. For example
>
>
>
> A----B----C-----D
>
>
>
> Router B advertise distance AB to router C. router C advertise accumulate=
d
> distance AB+BC to router D.
>
>
>
> 2. Above distance can be configured as manual interface command or
> dynamically using ICMP or similar mechanism. We can assume ICMP delay
> propositional to geo distance.
>
>
>
> 3. Alternative option is to calculate real geo distance from coordinate
> system. In this case we miss intermediate hops. Accuracy is not much
> accurate since cable paths do not follow real coordinate based distance. =
In
> this case we should have knowledge on coordinates of upstream router whic=
h
> relevant IP block advertise.
>
>
>
> Option 1 can be achieved through BGP protocol itself ,if agreed to
> introduce new attribute.
>
> Option 3 more suitable to SDN based implementation. Calculation can be
> daily or weekly basis as this is not primary criteria.
>
>
>
> Further Consider following scenario.
>
>
>
> I am in Sri Lanka. Assume I have upstream POPS to Singapore, AMS, New
> York.  Assume I need to reach destination IP located at Japan. When I che=
ck
> BGP routing table, AS-PATH length is equal from all three upstream. Then =
I
> have three options. Then router selects any interface randomly if no poli=
cy
> configured. I hope you agreed up to this point. In such case I suggest to
> consider GEO distance to destination. In most cases lowest distance path =
is
> the best path. This may not correct always but better than random outgoin=
g
> interface selection.
>
>
>
>
>
> 1. Discarding the routes with the unreachable Next_Hop.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2. Preferring the route with the highest Local_Pref.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3. Preferring the aggregated route. The preference of an aggregated route
> is higher than the preference of a non-aggregated route.
>
>
>
>
>
> 4. Preferring the route with the shortest AS-Path.
>
>
>
>
>
> *5. If AS-Path finds equal, consider shortest GEO distance. If still
> distance is same follow next steps. *
>
>
>
>
>
> 6. Comparing the Origin attribute and selecting the routes with the Origi=
n
> attribute as IGP, EGP, or Incomplete in order.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duleept
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com <ju1738@att.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 7, 2015 7:44 PM
> *To:* Duleep Thilakarathne; 'Robert Raszuk'
> *Cc:* 'bess@ietf.org'
> *Subject:* RE: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Duleep,
>
>
>
>                 So a bit confused here.
>
>
>
>                 How do want the decision making to go if a path has a
> shorter AS-PATH and longer latency than the alternative?? If latency is t=
he
> prime motivator why do you care about AS-PATH length at all.. Comments
> In-Line..
>
>
>
> Jim Uttaro
>
>
>
> *From:* Duleep Thilakarathne [mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk
> <duleept@mobitel.lk>]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 07, 2015 9:31 AM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk
> *Cc:* UTTARO, JAMES; bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Hi Raszuk,
>
>
>
>
>
> Question 1: How does the router know about user's high latency ?
>
>
>
> Actually I am referring ISP edge router to another ISP edge router delay
> due to transmission distance.
>
> *[Jim U>] The underlying facility and it=E2=80=99s representative transmi=
ssion
> distance will most likely differ from geographical distance. Which do you
> want to address? To Robert=E2=80=99s point you still need to acquire that=
 knowledge
> and it may be orthogonal to an attribute that is defined as delay.*
>
>
>
>
>
> Question 2: How do you assure Internet stability where you start churning
> paths based on the latency of data plane ?
>
>
>
> It is not required to consider stability in this situation since it is
> unavoidable. What is refer is, router need to select best outgoing path
> considering physical distance whenever possible when AS-PATH length is
> equal. If router selects long distance path randomly, it impacts to
> latency.
>
>
>
> Question 3: What you are after has effectively been solved many years ago
> .. it is called Optimized Edge Routing (OER) / Performance Routing (PFR) =
-
> I suggest you google for those terms.
>
>
>
> Thank for the suggestion. I gone through these proposals. But what I am
> suggesting is  whether we can address this idea from BGP protocol level.
> For example by introducing new attribute related to physical distance/del=
ay
> similar to AS-PATH. New attribute need to update across the As path. My
> ultimate objective is to prevent router randomly select outgoing path whe=
n
> AS-PATH lengths are  equal. Further I am trying SDN based simulation thes=
e
> days. Hope I can share output. But this could similar to what you have
> proposed except geo distance calculation mechanism.
>
>
>
> Refer below standard BGP route selection criteria. I suggest item 5.
> Wordings may different from vendor to vendor.
>
>
>
>
>
> 1. Discarding the routes with the unreachable Next_Hop.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2. Preferring the route with the highest Local_Pref.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3. Preferring the aggregated route. The preference of an aggregated route
> is higher than the preference of a non-aggregated route.
>
>
>
>
>
> 4. Preferring the route with the shortest AS-Path.
>
>
>
>
>
> *5. If AS-Path finds equal, consider shortest GEO distance. If still
> distance is same follow next steps. *
>
>
>
>
>
> 6. Comparing the Origin attribute and selecting the routes with the Origi=
n
> attribute as IGP, EGP, or Incomplete in order.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regsrds
>
> Duleept
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com <rraszuk@gmail.com>] =
*On
> Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, August 7, 2015 6:29 PM
> *To:* Duleep Thilakarathne
> *Cc:* UTTARO, JAMES; bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Duleep,
>
>
>
> > Then end user experiences high latency to reach destination. In such
>
> > a case, I suggest router need to consider geographic distance to
>
> > destination and select path via NTT to reach destination by default.
>
>
>
> Question 1: How does the router know about user's high latency ?
>
>
>
> Question 2: How do you assure Internet stability where you start churning
> paths based on the latency of data plane ?
>
>
>
> Question 3: What you are after has effectively been solved many years ago
> .. it is called Optimized Edge Routing (OER) / Performace Routing (PFR) -=
 I
> suggest you google for those terms.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
>
>
> Please refer below example.
>
>
>
> Assume destination IP is in Asian region. Particular ISP in a different
>  location (Say India) has upstream peering to US POP (Say AT&T) and Asia
> POP (Say NTT). If we check BGP routing table, assume it shows
>
>
>
> XX.XX.XX.XX/24 ------=C3=A0AS - AT&T,AS-XX,AS-Destination
>
>                                 ------=C3=A0AS - NTT,AS-YY,AS-Destination
>
>
>
>
>
> In above case AS-PATH is equal and assume router automatically select pat=
h
> via AT&T. Then end user experiences high latency to reach destination. In
> such a case, I suggest router need to consider geographic distance to
> destination and select path via NTT to reach destination by default.
> Deciding geo distance is a challenge but there are options. Here geo
> distance means shortest distance to reach IP destination from upstream PO=
P.
> Current practice is to use community strings, but it depends on upstream
> ISP capability.
>
>
>
> Can you comment my idea.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duleept
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 7, 2015 4:09 PM
> *To:* Duleep Thilakarathne; 'Robert Raszuk'
>
>
> *Cc:* 'bess@ietf.org'
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Duleep,
>
>
>
>                 Assuming AS-PATH is equal and AS-Content different how ca=
n
> you know that the internal metrics of each AS are consistent and mirror
> actual geographic distances? You have to be assured that each
> administrative domain applies the same metric assignment. I do not believ=
e
> this is possible when there are multiple administrative domains.
>
>
>
> Jim Uttaro
>
>
>
> *From:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org <bess-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *Duleep Thilakarathne
> *Sent:* Friday, August 07, 2015 5:19 AM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Hi Raszuk,
>
>
>
> I went through RFC7311 and my concern is different than RFC 7311. I have
> analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP
> multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH
> length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy
> applied to influence local preference. According to BGP best path selecti=
on
> algorithm, when AS-PATH lengths  are equal, router breaks tie condition
> based on route internal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path
> selection.
>
>
>
> Appreciate your concern on above analysis.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duleept
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net <robert@raszuk.net>]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2015 2:40 AM
> *To:* Duleep Thilakarathne
> *Cc:* bess@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance
> when AS_PATH are equal
>
>
>
> Hi Duleep,
>
>
>
> Please consider RFC 7311 and provide feedback why you think it is not
> sufficient for your objective.
>
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7311
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I would like to suggest to consider geographic distance when AS_PATH  are
> equal in BGP route selection criteria. (as tie breaking rule). Can anybod=
y
> comment on my idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duleept
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
> e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
> information by a person other than the intended recipient is
> unauthorized and may be illegal.
> Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> BESS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
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> the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt)
> Ltd.
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
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an
> the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt)
> Ltd.
>
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other th=
an
> the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt)
> Ltd.
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other th=
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> the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt)
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>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
> e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
> information by a person other than the intended recipient is
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> Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the
> sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any
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>

--e89a8f64720f4e0b4a051cce336f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">/* First t=
his discussion does not belong to BESS WG but to IDR, Readjusting the mail =
alias */</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">DT,</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; But this proposal more si=
gnificant to tier 2 and tier 3 ISPs who have multi-homing=C2=A0</span></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size=
:14.6666669845581px">&gt; with long distance upstream ISPs.</span><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size=
:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">Those tier-2 and =
tier-3 ISPs today are using BGP policy and based on pretty simple match=C2=
=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">of AS_PATH content can influence best p=
ath selection in their ASes without any need for=C2=A0</span></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.66666=
69845581px">new BGP extensions.=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br><=
/span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f;font-size:14.6666669845581px">BGP tools to be used: weight, local pref or=
 cost community.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.666666=
9845581px">The values for the metrics can be coming with offline (server ba=
sed) measurements if they=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">are to be =
dynamic or can be =C2=A0set statically. For enforcing that set of probe dat=
a will exit via=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">required links EPE ma=
y come handy.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669=
845581px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; I propose, each border =
router need to check delay to eBGP neighbor every 15 min interval.</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><=
br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">Please be =
consistent. In previous mail you said:</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br>=
</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&quot;</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0=
,80);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2. Manually configure =C2=A0binding to=
 remote AS.&quot;=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669=
845581px">Are you expecting operator to readjust configuration every 15 min=
 ???</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"=
><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,h=
elvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">&gt; I decide to continue research on=
 this aspect.</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px"><br></span></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.66666=
69845581px">You are clearly free to conduct research on any topic. However =
please be informed=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">that perhaps a bet=
ter target for your research may be IRTF or SIGCOMM.</span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669=
845581px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6666669845581px">regards,</span><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.=
6666669845581px">R.=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Duleep Thilakarathne <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk" target=3D"_blank">duleept@mobitel=
.lk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Raszuk,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please find my comments inline.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleep<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rr=
aszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 8, 2015 3:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duleep Thilakarathne<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Li; UTTARO, JAMES; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org</a><span><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Hi=C2=A0Thilakarathne,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Point #1:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">What makes you think that 10 ms over 1 GB ethernet peering is any bett=
er then 20 ms RTT over 100 GB ? I would really prefer to get routed over 10=
0 GB peerings even if the RTT would be doubled.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Your preference may correct theoretically or=
 in a different scenario other than ISP environment. ISPs need to pay for l=
inks and link capacity decided based on the traffic requirement
 and several other factors. There are none pay scenarios in ISP peering but=
 I am not going to explain as it is irrelevant to this discussion. ISPs set=
up multiple links with multiple capacities in order to achieve several targ=
ets. Redundancy, low latency are
 few of them. Further ISPs advertise IPs to all upstream in order to get re=
dundancy unless there is no special reason. Therefore there is high possibi=
lity to select so called 10ms 1GB link than 100 GB 20ms link for particular=
 IP blocks in ISP environment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I will try to explain the scenario I am trying to a=
ddress again since you have not understand it clearly.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Assume particular tier 3 ISP in Asia (say ISP A) ha=
s 10 GB link to USA POP and 1G link to Asia POP. Web hosting provider =C2=
=A0based on Asia advertise its IP block through BGP and
 ISP A receives web hosting provider IP block from both paths. Assume in th=
is case AS PATH length is equal. Then how does router select best outgoing =
path. According to you, if router selects 10G link, all traffic route to US=
A and come back to Asia. It is not
 desired path. My proposal is to decide best path in such a scenario and no=
t in general BGP scenario. My proposal try to prevent random route selectio=
n using new end to end BGP attribute.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">If router has another end to end BGP attribute othe=
r than AS-PATH , router can consider it during tie condition. Other attribu=
te I propose is delay between AS which is proportional
 to geographic distance. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Further this proposal may not have more significanc=
e, if eBGP peer resides short geographic distance. For example same state i=
n USA. But this proposal more significant to tier
 2 and tier 3 ISPs who have multi-homing with long distance upstream ISPs.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Point #2:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; There is no reqirment to synchronize different administrative=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; domains since router itself automatically calculate value and=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; add when routes =C2=A0advertised similar to AS PATH addition=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; operation.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Sorry to ruin your impression about power and intelligence of routers,=
 but they only do what they are programmed to do.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">So Jim&#39;s point about synchronizing metrics is still valid. Of cour=
se I assume that for you the only metric you consider here are milliseconds=
 and therefor do not bother.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Imagine one operator chooses to use physical distance and other RTT. S=
o in the new attribute you will get time [ms] vs distance [miles]. Yet one =
more will also use distance buy expressed in kilometers.
 Please elaborate how useful such=C2=A0comparison=C2=A0will turn out to be =
?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I am not oppose to Jim=E2=80=99s point on sy=
nchronizing. What I want to highlight is that synchronizing is not required=
 for the attribute proposed by me. present routers program to
 select outgoing path based on random parameter when AS-PATH length is equa=
l (other conditions after AS length check may not have more significance). =
My suggestion is to change the program in such scenario. This will prevent =
random route selection which router
 programed to do.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Proposed attribute can use either length in km or d=
elay in milliseconds. This need decide and include in the RFC. =C2=A0but th=
ere is a relationship between delay and distance to
 eBGP peer . Practically =C2=A0south Asian ISP can achieve around 30ms two =
way delay to =C2=A0Singapore POP and 300ms to USA POP. We can find cable di=
stance if required.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Point #3:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">As you are suggesting use of ICMP to measure RTT please keep in mind t=
hat ICMP is not high priority protocol. It may wait in the remote or local =
router for processing much more then the propagation
 delay of the link it arrived on.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I am open in this comment. ICMP or TCP delay=
 can be used. Based on my experience even ICMP is not give big issue as mos=
t of border routers are carrier grade. 5% to 10% delay
 variation may not affect to route selection decision. <u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Point #4:=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">How often do you plan to remeasure the eBGP propagation ? Note that to=
day many optical long haul transmission is hidden from ASBRs. That means th=
at your provider of long distance connection may
 at will reroute you via his own web of fiber which does affect RTT. So it =
is pretty safe to assume what you have measured yesterday today is irreleva=
nt.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I propose, each border router need to check =
delay to eBGP neighbor every 15 min interval. If routers detects 25% delay =
difference to previous delay value, router triggers BGP
 update message. if not, no update message triggers. Optical long haul tran=
smission will not have big issue in practical scenarios as SLAs exists. The=
y are free to change backhaul path as long as delay does not change signifi=
cantly. If delay changes significantly,
 =C2=A0it address separately and business cannot exists.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">As I described earlier this proposal has much signi=
ficance when ISPs have large geographic separation.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Point #5:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">eBGP propagation may be few orders of magnitude less relevant as propa=
gation within each AS path is traversing. And except the case of few ASes u=
nder the same administration we do not have a
 way to express that one today except AIGP attribute.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">AIGP RFC clearly mentioned , it is proposed =
=C2=A0for single administrative domain.=C2=A0 I am talking about different =
administrative domains and eBGP.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">So if you would like to continue your research perhaps looking at that=
 aspect first may be more valuable ....<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Since you have not understood practical issu=
e =C2=A0and solution I am explaining and you have not provided valid reason=
 to change my research ,still I decide to continue research
 on this aspect. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Cheers,<br>
R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Duleep Thilakarathne=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk" target=3D"_blank">duleept@mobite=
l.lk</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">Richard,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">Yes I am referring eBGP=C2=A0scenario. I suggest distance calculatio=
ns based on<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">1. ICMP=C2=A0delay between eBGP=C2=A0speakers.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">2. Manually configure =C2=A0binding to remote AS.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">Each eBGP=C2=A0speaking routers need to accumulate =C2=A0distance va=
lue when advertised routes to external peer.There is no reqirment=C2=A0to s=
ynchronize different=C2=A0administrative domains since router itself
 automatically calculate value and add when routes =C2=A0advertised similar=
 to AS PATH addition operation.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">----- Reply message -----<br>
From: &quot;Richard Li&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:renwei.li@huawei.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">renwei.li@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;Duleep Thilakarathne&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:duleept@Mobitel.=
lk" target=3D"_blank">duleept@Mobitel.lk</a>&gt;, &quot;UTTARO, JAMES&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ju1738@att.com" target=3D"_blank">ju1738@att.com</a>=
&gt;, &quot;&#39;Robert Raszuk&#39;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@rasz=
uk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;&#39;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf=
.org</a>&#39;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance when AS_=
PATH are equal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif">Date: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 10:11 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">There might be a good point here. RFC=
 7311 only takes care of the IGP metrics. But In Duleep=E2=80=99s example,
 the metrics between two eBGP speakers are not taken into consideration. In=
 order to have AIGP attribute to really represent the accumulated one, the =
metrics on such links should be considered as well. However, there might be=
 some challenges or obstacles: The
 way to configure one metrics on the link between two eBGP speakers might n=
ot be consistent with the way to configure another metrics on the another l=
ink between two speakers.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Richard</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> BESS [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:b=
ess-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Duleep Thilakarathne<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 07, 2015 8:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> UTTARO, JAMES; &#39;Robert Raszuk&#39;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> &#39;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@iet=
f.org</a>&#39;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jim,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">What I want to suggest is to insert i=
tem 5 (refer below items listed) to BGP best path selection algorithm.
 Once AS-PATH length is equal, next we can think on how to select best outg=
oing interface. If we don=E2=80=99t select proper outgoing interface it wil=
l affect to latency. I am talking this based on practical experience I have=
 in ISP environment. There are several options
 to select best outgoing interface when AS-PATH are equal.=C2=A0 In this ca=
se I suggest geo distance to destination. Following are options to calculat=
e geo distance. Router selects outgoing interface with lowest GEO distance =
to destination.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">1. BGP speaking router can add distan=
ce when advertise to route to upstream similar to AS-PATH attribute.
 For example </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A----B----C-----D
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Router B advertise distance AB to rou=
ter C. router C advertise accumulated distance AB+BC to router
 D. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2. Above distance can be configured a=
s manual interface command or dynamically using ICMP or similar
 mechanism. We can assume ICMP delay propositional to geo distance.</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">3. Alternative option is to calculate=
 real geo distance from coordinate system. In this case we miss
 intermediate hops. Accuracy is not much accurate since cable paths do not =
follow real coordinate based distance. In this case we should have knowledg=
e on coordinates of upstream router which relevant IP block advertise.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Option 1 can be achieved through BGP =
protocol itself ,if agreed to introduce new attribute.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Option 3 more suitable to SDN based i=
mplementation. Calculation can be daily or weekly basis as this
 is not primary criteria. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Further Consider following scenario.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am in Sri Lanka. Assume I have upst=
ream POPS to Singapore, AMS, New York.=C2=A0 Assume I need to reach
 destination IP located at Japan. When I check BGP routing table, AS-PATH l=
ength is equal from all three upstream. Then I have three options. Then rou=
ter selects any interface randomly if no policy configured. I hope you agre=
ed up to this point. In such case
 I suggest to consider GEO distance to destination. In most cases lowest di=
stance path is the best path. This may not correct always but better than r=
andom outgoing interface selection.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"border-col=
lapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"height:5.45pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:5.45pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>1. Discarding the routes with the unreachable Next_Hop. <u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:5.45pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:5.45pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">2. Preferring the route with the highes=
t Local_Pref.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:15.75pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:15.75pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">3. Preferring the aggregated route. The=
 preference of an aggregated route is higher than the preference of a non-a=
ggregated route.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:5.45pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:5.45pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">4. Preferring the route with the shorte=
st AS-Path.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:15.7pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:15.7pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">5. If AS-Path finds equal, consider =
shortest GEO distance. If still distance is same follow next steps.
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:15.8pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:15.8pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">6. Comparing the Origin attribute and s=
electing the routes with the Origin attribute as IGP, EGP, or Incomplete in=
 order.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleept</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> UTTARO, JAMES [<a href=3D"mail=
to:ju1738@att.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ju1738@att.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 7, 2015 7:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duleep Thilakarathne; &#39;Robert Raszuk&#39;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> &#39;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@iet=
f.org</a>&#39;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleep,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 So a bit confused he=
re.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 How do want the deci=
sion making to go if a path has a shorter AS-PATH and longer latency
 than the alternative?? If latency is the prime motivator why do you care a=
bout AS-PATH length at all.. Comments In-Line..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jim Uttaro</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Duleep Thilakarathne [<a href=3D=
"mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk" target=3D"_blank">mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk</a>=
]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 07, 2015 9:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Cc:</b> UTTARO, JAMES; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Raszuk,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Question 1: How does the router know about user&#39;s high latency ?=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Actually I am referring ISP edge router to another I=
SP edge router delay due to transmission distance.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[Jim U&gt;] The underlying faci=
lity and it=E2=80=99s representative transmission distance will most likely
 differ from geographical distance. Which do you want to address? To Robert=
=E2=80=99s point you still need to acquire that knowledge and it may be ort=
hogonal to an attribute that is defined as delay.</span></i></b><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Question 2: How do you assure Internet stability where you start churn=
ing paths based on the latency of data plane ?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is not required to consider stability in this sit=
uation since it is unavoidable. What is refer is, router need to select bes=
t outgoing path considering physical distance whenever
 possible when AS-PATH length is equal. If router selects long distance pat=
h randomly, it impacts to latency.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Question 3: What you are after has effectively been solved many years =
ago .. it is called Optimized Edge Routing (OER) / Performance
 Routing (PFR) - I suggest you google for those terms.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank for the suggestion. I gone through these propo=
sals. But what I am suggesting is =C2=A0whether we can address this idea fr=
om BGP protocol level. For example by introducing new attribute
 related to physical distance/delay similar to AS-PATH. New attribute need =
to update across the As path. My ultimate objective is to prevent router ra=
ndomly select outgoing path when AS-PATH lengths are =C2=A0equal. Further I=
 am trying SDN based simulation these
 days. Hope I can share output. But this could similar to what you have pro=
posed except geo distance calculation mechanism.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Refer below standard BGP route selection criteria. I=
 suggest item 5. Wordings may different from vendor to vendor.<u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"border-col=
lapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"height:5.45pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:5.45pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>1. Discarding the routes with the unreachable Next_Hop. <u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:5.45pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:5.45pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">2. Preferring the route with the highes=
t Local_Pref.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:15.75pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:15.75pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">3. Preferring the aggregated route. The=
 preference of an aggregated route is higher than the preference of a non-a=
ggregated route.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:5.45pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:5.45pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">4. Preferring the route with the shorte=
st AS-Path.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:15.7pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:15.7pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">5. If AS-Path finds equal, consider =
shortest GEO distance. If still distance is same follow next steps.
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"height:15.8pt">
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:15.8pt">
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">6. Comparing the Origin attribute and s=
electing the routes with the Origin attribute as IGP, EGP, or Incomplete in=
 order.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regsrds</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleept</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:rraszuk@gm=
ail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 7, 2015 6:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duleep Thilakarathne<br>
<b>Cc:</b> UTTARO, JAMES; <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">bess@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Duleep,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; Then end user experiences high latency to reach destination. In s=
uch=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; a case, I suggest router need to consider geographic distance to=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">&gt; destination and select path via NTT to reach destination by defau=
lt.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Question 1: How does the router know about user&#39;s high latency ?=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Question 2: How do you assure Internet stability where you start churn=
ing paths based on the latency of data plane ?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Question 3: What you are after has effectively been solved many years =
ago .. it is called Optimized Edge Routing (OER) / Performace
 Routing (PFR) - I suggest you google for those terms.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Duleep Thilakarathne=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk" target=3D"_blank">duleept@mobite=
l.lk</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Jim,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please refer below example.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Assume destination IP is in Asian reg=
ion. Particular ISP in a different =C2=A0location (Say India) has upstream
 peering to US POP (Say AT&amp;T) and Asia POP (Say NTT). If we check BGP r=
outing table, assume it shows</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">XX.XX.XX.XX/24 ------</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">=C3=A0</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:#1f497d">AS
 - AT&amp;T,AS-XX,AS-Destination</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --=
----</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f4=
97d">=C3=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">AS
 - NTT,AS-YY,AS-Destination=C2=A0 </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In above case AS-PATH is equal and as=
sume router automatically select path via AT&amp;T. Then end user
 experiences high latency to reach destination. In such a case, I suggest r=
outer need to consider geographic distance to destination and select path v=
ia NTT to reach destination by default. Deciding geo distance is a challeng=
e but there are options. Here geo
 distance means shortest distance to reach IP destination from upstream POP=
. Current practice is to use community strings, but it depends on upstream =
ISP capability.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Can you comment my idea.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleept</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:ju1738@att.com" target=3D"_blank">ju1738@att.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 7, 2015 4:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duleep Thilakarathne; &#39;Robert Raszuk&#39;</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> &#39;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@iet=
f.org</a>&#39;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleep,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Assuming AS-PATH is =
equal and AS-Content different how can you know that the internal
 metrics of each AS are consistent and mirror actual geographic distances? =
You have to be assured that each administrative domain applies the same met=
ric assignment. I do not believe this is possible when there are multiple a=
dministrative domains.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jim Uttaro</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> BESS [<a href=3D"mailto:bess-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Duleep Thilakarathne<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 07, 2015 5:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Raszuk,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I went through RFC7311 and my concern=
 is different than RFC 7311. I have analyzed full BGP routing
 table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP multi-homing scenario and found=
 nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH length. In this analysis It was co=
nsidered, there was no route policy applied to influence local preference. =
According to BGP best path selection
 algorithm, when AS-PATH lengths =C2=A0are equal, router breaks tie conditi=
on based on route internal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing pat=
h selection.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Appreciate your concern on above anal=
ysis.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Duleept</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"500" style=
=3D"width:375.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"130" style=3D"width:97.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif;color:#383838">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"370" style=3D"width:277.5pt;border:none;border-left:solid #666=
666 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 7.5pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:#383838">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Robert Raszuk [<a href=3D"mail=
to:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:robert@raszuk.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 27, 2015 2:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duleep Thilakarathne<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bess@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distan=
ce when AS_PATH are equal</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Hi Duleep,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Please consider RFC 7311 and provide feedback why you think it is not =
sufficient for your objective.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7311" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7311</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Duleep Thilakarathn=
e &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk" target=3D"_blank">duleept@mobit=
el.lk</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to suggest to consider geographic dista=
nce when AS_PATH =C2=A0are equal in BGP route selection criteria. (as tie b=
reaking rule). Can anybody comment on my idea.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Duleept<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and<br>
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,<br>
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this<br>
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this<br>
information by a person other than the intended recipient is<br>
unauthorized and may be illegal.<br>
Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
BESS mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BESS@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BESS@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This e-mail and any attachments may contain confiden=
tial and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, ple=
ase notify the sender immediately by return e-mail,
 delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of thi=
s information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized=
 and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This e-mail and any attachments may contain confiden=
tial and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, ple=
ase notify the sender immediately by return e-mail,
 delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of thi=
s information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized=
 and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This e-mail and any attachments may contain confiden=
tial and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, ple=
ase notify the sender immediately by return e-mail,
 delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of thi=
s information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized=
 and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This e-mail and any attachments may contain confiden=
tial and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, ple=
ase notify the sender immediately by return e-mail,
 delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of thi=
s information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized=
 and may be illegal. Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and<br>
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,<br>
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this<br>
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this<br>
information by a person other than the intended recipient is<br>
unauthorized and may be illegal.<br>
Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div><div><div>

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.
Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--e89a8f64720f4e0b4a051cce336f--


From nobody Sat Aug  8 10:20:47 2015
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From: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [bess] BGP route selection criteria - geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal
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--_000_4C8ECB373CE2DB41BE8D10BADC0F8771EE00BF37HOWEXMAIL01mobi_--


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From: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 17:56:33 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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Dear all,

I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP mult=
i-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH length.=
 In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy applied to i=
nfluence local preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, =
when AS-PATH lengths  are equal, router breaks tie condition based on route=
r internal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.

I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated distanc=
e information between different administrative domains. This not coincide w=
ith RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information between diffe=
rent administrative domains.

The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to introduce new parameter t=
o BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length is equal and reduce rou=
te policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considered.

Your comments really appreciated.


Regards,
Duleep T



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) w=
ith two tier 1 ISP multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes hav=
e equal AS-PATH length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no ro=
ute policy applied to influence local
 preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, when AS-PATH l=
engths&nbsp; are equal, router breaks tie condition based on router interna=
l logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carr=
ies accumulated distance information between different administrative domai=
ns. This not coincide with RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries in=
formation between different administrative
 domains. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to in=
troduce new parameter to BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length =
is equal and reduce route policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considere=
d.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your comments really appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Duleep T<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk>
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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> On Aug 8, 2015, at 13:56, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk> wrote:=

>=20
> =20
> Dear all,
> =20
> I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP mul=
ti-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH length.=
 In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy applied to in=
fluence local preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, wh=
en AS-PATH lengths  are equal, router breaks tie condition based on router i=
nternal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.
> =20
> I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated distan=
ce information between different administrative domains. This not coincide w=
ith RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information between differ=
ent administrative domains.
> =20
> The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to introduce new parameter t=
o BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length is equal and reduce rout=
e policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considered.
> =20
> Your comments really appreciated.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-aigp-07


> =20
> =20
> Regards,
> Duleep T
> =20
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
> e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
> information by a person other than the intended recipient is
> unauthorized and may be illegal.
> Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Aug 8, 2015, at 13:56, Duleep Thilakarathne &lt;<a href="mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk">duleept@Mobitel.lk</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy applied to influence local
 preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, when AS-PATH lengths&nbsp; are equal, router breaks tie condition based on router internal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated distance information between different administrative domains. This not coincide with RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information between different administrative
 domains. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to introduce new parameter to BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length is equal and reduce route policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considered.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your comments really appreciated.</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-aigp-07">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-aigp-07</a><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Duleep T<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>



<p>

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and<br>
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</p></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Idr mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>
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To: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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> On Aug 8, 2015, at 14:24, brad dreisbach <bradd@ntt.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 13:56, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk> wrote=
:
>>=20
>> =20
>> Dear all,
>> =20
>> I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP mu=
lti-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH length=
. In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy applied to i=
nfluence local preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, w=
hen AS-PATH lengths  are equal, router breaks tie condition based on router i=
nternal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.
>> =20
>> I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated dista=
nce information between different administrative domains. This not coincide w=
ith RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information between differ=
ent administrative domains.
>> =20
>> The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to introduce new parameter=
 to BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length is equal and reduce ro=
ute policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considered.
>> =20
>> Your comments really appreciated.
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-aigp-07
>=20

actually nevermind, i misread your initial post.


>=20
>> =20
>> =20
>> Regards,
>> Duleep T
>> =20
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>> unauthorized and may be illegal.
>> Mobitel (Pvt) Ltd.
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Aug 8, 2015, at 14:24, brad dreisbach &lt;<a href="mailto:bradd@ntt.net">bradd@ntt.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Aug 8, 2015, at 13:56, Duleep Thilakarathne &lt;<a href="mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk">duleept@Mobitel.lk</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>

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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy applied to influence local
 preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, when AS-PATH lengths&nbsp; are equal, router breaks tie condition based on router internal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated distance information between different administrative domains. This not coincide with RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information between different administrative
 domains. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to introduce new parameter to BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length is equal and reduce route policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considered.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your comments really appreciated.</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-aigp-07">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-aigp-07</a><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>actually nevermind, i misread your initial post.<div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Duleep T<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>



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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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Duleep,

Great that we have moved the discussion from BESS WG to IDR where it
belongs (assuming it belongs to IETF in the first place).


Additional points:

Point 1:

You said that your analysis is based on the peering with no route policy
applied. Just FYI there is parallel draft that enforces configuration of
policy to all peerings for both incoming and outgoing updates.

Ref: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mauch-bgp-reject

As noted on BESS list bgp policy if configured can solve your problem today
with simple match and setting local preference, weight or cost community
(with any chosen POI).

It can be dynamic or static ...


Point 2:

You recommend that during best path selection - after AS PATH length check
router OS will automatically choose as best those paths with lower
cumulative ebgp boundaries RTT or cumulative distance between EBGP
expressed in kilometers or miles.

Well such lower RTT/Geo distance ebgp boundaries path may be 10 x more
expensive for tier-2 or tier-3 ... how do you explain to ISP management
that you "optimized BGP" and then they have to pay much more for peerings
from now on ?

Your suggestion does not seem to consider the most important BGP rule that
it is all about cost and policy.


Point 3:

Which path is chosen today becomes global routing decision. However if you
look at applications which need to talk end to end they have very different
characteristics.

Have you analysed Thomas work in regards of interdomain qos ?

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knoll-idr-qos-attribute-15


Point 4:

Do you have any ietf draft describing your idea or is this just a free
discussion ?


Point 5:

How do you handle case of dropping more specific routes by an upstream?


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -


*Point 6 - My suggested alternative proposal: *


How about we take a completely different approach here and define a new BGP
path attribute which lists geographic coordinates at each EBGP boundary
BGP_UPDATE goes through ? Just like AS_PATH it would grow as you traverse
EBGP boundaries ...

It will be pure informational and static from BGP code pov.

However it could be quite useful in various ways for offline policy engines
in any possible ISP/SP to help with more accurate policy application to
their routing.

The coordinates may be accompanied by additional information (say a v6
address) to for example help anyone to measure the RTT from some sort of
local SDN BGP policy engine.


Best,
Robert




On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@mobitel.lk>
wrote:

>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP
> multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH
> length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy
> applied to influence local preference. According to BGP best path selection
> algorithm, when AS-PATH lengths  are equal, router breaks tie condition
> based on router internal logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path
> selection.
>
>
>
> I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated
> distance information between different administrative domains. This not
> coincide with RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information
> between different administrative domains.
>
>
>
> The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to introduce new parameter
> to BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length is equal and reduce
> route policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considered.
>
>
>
> Your comments really appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Duleep T
>
>
>

--f46d043c07d46cc8e1051cd2e278
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Duleep,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">Great that we have moved the discussion from BESS WG =
to IDR where it belongs (assuming it belongs to IETF in the first place).</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall">Additional points:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l">Point 1:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">You said t=
hat your analysis is based on the peering with no route policy applied. Jus=
t FYI there is parallel draft that enforces configuration of policy to all =
peerings for both incoming and outgoing updates.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sma=
ll"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Ref:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-mauch-bgp-reject" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/draft-mauch-bgp-reject</a><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small">As noted on BESS list bgp policy if configured can solve your pr=
oblem today with simple match and setting local preference, weight or cost =
community (with any chosen POI).=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small">It can be dynamic or static ...</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Point 2:=C2=A0</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">You recommend that during =
best path selection - after AS PATH length check router OS will automatical=
ly choose as best those paths with lower cumulative ebgp boundaries RTT or =
cumulative distance between EBGP expressed in kilometers or miles.=C2=A0</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Well such lower RTT/Geo =
distance ebgp boundaries path may be 10 x more expensive for tier-2 or tier=
-3 ... how do you explain to ISP management that you &quot;optimized BGP&qu=
ot; and then they have to pay much more for peerings from now on ?=C2=A0</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Your suggestion does not=
 seem to consider the most important BGP rule that it is all about cost and=
 policy.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">Point 3:=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small">Which path is chosen today becomes global routing decision. =
However if you look at applications which need to talk end to end they have=
 very different characteristics.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small">Have you analysed Thomas work in regards of interdomain qo=
s ?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font fa=
ce=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-knoll-idr-qos-attribute-15" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-knoll-idr-qos-attribute-15</a></font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l">Point 4:=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
Do you have any ietf draft describing your idea or is this just a free disc=
ussion ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">Point 5:=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small">How do you handle case of dropping more specific routes by a=
n upstream?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;font-size:small"><b><br></b></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><b>Point 6 - My=
 suggested alternative proposal:=C2=A0</b></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><b><br><=
/b></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">How about we take =
a completely different approach here and define a new BGP path attribute wh=
ich lists geographic coordinates at each EBGP boundary BGP_UPDATE goes thro=
ugh ? Just like AS_PATH it would grow as you traverse EBGP boundaries ...=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">It will be pure=
 informational and static from BGP code pov.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small">However it could be quite useful in various wa=
ys for offline policy engines in any possible ISP/SP to help with more accu=
rate policy application to their routing.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small">The coordinates may be accompanied by additional inform=
ation (say a v6 address) to for example help anyone to measure the RTT from=
 some sort of local SDN BGP policy engine.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all">Robert=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Duleep =
Thilakarathne <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:duleept@mobitel.lk" t=
arget=3D"_blank">duleept@mobitel.lk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) w=
ith two tier 1 ISP multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes hav=
e equal AS-PATH length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no ro=
ute policy applied to influence local
 preference. According to BGP best path selection algorithm, when AS-PATH l=
engths=C2=A0 are equal, router breaks tie condition based on router interna=
l logic. This does not grantee proper outgoing path selection.<u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carr=
ies accumulated distance information between different administrative domai=
ns. This not coincide with RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries in=
formation between different administrative
 domains. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The purpose of introduce new path attribute is to in=
troduce new parameter to BGP route selection algorithm when AS_PATH length =
is equal and reduce route policy configurations. eBGP scenario is considere=
d.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your comments really appreciated.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Duleep T<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div></div></div></div>

--f46d043c07d46cc8e1051cd2e278--


From nobody Mon Aug 10 15:38:42 2015
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Methods for Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route Leaks
        Authors         : Kotikalapudi Sriram
                          Doug Montgomery
                          Brian Dickson
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-00.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2015-07-22

Abstract:
   In [I-D.ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition], the authors have
   provided a definition of the route leak problem, and also enumerated
   several types of route leaks.  In this document, we first examine
   which of those route-leak types are detected and mitigated by the
   existing origin validation (OV) [RFC 6811] and BGPSEC path validation
   [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol].  Where the current OV and BGPSEC
   protocols don't offer a solution, this document suggests an
   enhancement that would extend the route-leak detection and mitigation
   capability of BGPSEC.  The solution can be implemented in BGP without
   necessarily tying it to BGPSEC.  Incorporating the solution in BGPSEC
   is one way of implementing it in a secure way.  We do not claim to
   have provided a solution for all possible types of route leaks, but
   the solution covers several, especially considering some significant
   route-leak attacks or occurrences that have been observed in recent
   years.  The document also includes a stopgap method for detection and
   mitigation of route leaks for the phase when BGPSEC (path validation)
   is not yet deployed but only origin validation is deployed.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation/

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From nobody Tue Aug 11 20:52:15 2015
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for L2 VPN
        Authors         : Weiguo Hao
                          Qiandeng Liang
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Shunwan Zhuang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-02.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2015-08-11

Abstract:
   This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Ethernet traffic
   filtering in L2 VPN network. SAFI=134 in [RFC5575] is redefined for
   dissemination traffic filtering information in an L2VPN environment.
   A new subset of component types and extended community also are
   defined.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/

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From nobody Thu Aug 13 15:29:46 2015
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The Inter-Domain Routing (IDR) WG will hold virtual interim meetings on 
the following dates:

August 31st: 10:00 - 11:30 EDT 
IDR Flow Specification and other topics

Sept. 14th 22:00 - 23:30 EDT 
Yang BGP Modules + other topics

Sept 28th 10:00 - 11:30 EDT 
Yang BGP Modules + other topics

October 12th 10:00 - 11:30 EDT 
Topic TBD

October 30th 22:00 - 23:30 EDT 
Preview of IETF Drafts

WebEx details will follow on the IDR mailing list.


From nobody Fri Aug 14 10:19:04 2015
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Subject: [Idr] Working Group Adoption call for draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps - is completed
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The working group adoption call for draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps is
completed and the IDR WG has adopted this draft: 

 

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps/

 

Will the authors please submit the draft as: 

 

draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-00.txt 

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder

 


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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
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	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
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	{page:WordSection1;}
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
working group adoption call for draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps is =
completed and the IDR WG has adopted this draft: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps/">h=
ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-idr-tunnel-encaps/</a><o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Will the authors please submit the draft as: =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-00.txt <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares =
and John Scudder<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Internet Exchange Route Server - Implementation Report
        Author          : Elisa Jasinska
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation-00.txt
	Pages           : 5
	Date            : 2015-02-02

Abstract:
   This document provides a survey of Internet Exchange Route Server
   implementations.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: [Idr] Implementation reports
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The following two implementation report drafts will be adopted as WG drafts,
but not forwarded to the IESG. 

 

draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation

draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl 

 

The authors of draft-svshah-idr-sla-exchange-impl  should submit their draft
as: 

 

draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl. 

 

The material in these two drafts will be included in the IDR wiki, and the
drafts will be deleted from the IDR repository after these drafts (already
through WG LC) have been published by the RFC editor. The authors will need
to keep the wiki updated with the latest implementation information. 

 

Sue Hares 

 

 


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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 =
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
following two implementation report drafts will be adopted as WG drafts, =
but not forwarded to the IESG. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-implementation<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The authors of draft-svshah-idr-sla-exchange-impl =
&nbsp;should submit their draft as: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The material =
in these two drafts will be included in the IDR wiki, and the drafts =
will be deleted from the IDR repository after these drafts (already =
through WG LC) have been published by the RFC editor. The authors will =
need to keep the wiki updated with the latest implementation =
information. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change-00.txt
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On Jul 3, 2015, at 4:29 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
...
> Given that the most probable code point (possibly) picked are likely =
to be 128 and 255, that's one more reason to have 255 reserved. To be on =
the extra safe side, I would propose to also have 128 reserved.

Done in -01.

> 1 last question. IINM we would have the following registration =
policies:
>=20
> "1-63 	IETF Review =09
> 64-127 First Come First Served
> 128-250: Standards Action
> 251-254: Experimental Use
> 255: Reserved"
>=20
> Then let's suppose that a new STD track RFC ask the IANA for a code =
point. A priori such RFC is eligible for all ranges. Which range would =
the IANA (typically) pick the value from? One option is to pick in the =
"strongest" range. In which case, we introduce a (very low) probability =
of code point collision for the most "official" code points. I don't =
feel that this is desirable.
> An option would be to move the FCFS policy to this 128-250 range, and =
use Standards Action for 64-127.

In thinking about this, we could either just make the range Reserved, or =
provide explicit instructions to IANA which ranges to use when, but in =
the end I thought the simplest thing was just make 128-and-up FCFS, =
which is what you'll see in -01. The rationale for this is basically =
KISS.=20

"But John," you may ask, "what about your earlier rationale for SA, that =
it prevents a 'run on the bank'?" Well, I am inconsistent. Also, several =
of you convinced me that if we ever do get that low on code points, we =
had better long before it happens, introduce an extension mechanism.=20

As before, this is of course subject to change according to WG =
consensus.

Thanks for your comments,

--John=


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On Jul 14, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Thomas Mangin =
<thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk> wrote:
>=20
> More seriously anything between 8 and 16 would be fine with me, 12 =
would be 5% (rounded).

4^2 it is, see -01.

Thanks,

--John=


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From: Haoweiguo <haoweiguo@huawei.com>
To: "'idr wg list'" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01.txt
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Hi Folks,
The draft for NVO3 flow-spec application was updated. A new delimiter compo=
nent type was introduced for the overlay technology. Your further comments =
and suggestions are welcomed.
Thanks,
weiguo

________________________________________
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 16:03
To: Lizhenbin; Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; Lizhenbi=
n
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3
Revision:       01
Title:          Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for NVO3
Document date:  2015-08-15
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          7
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec=
-nvo3-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo=
3/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3-01
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-hao-idr-flowspec-=
nvo3-01

Abstract:
   This draft proposes a new subset of component types to support the
   NVO3 flow-spec application.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat=


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Inter-domain SLA Exchange Implementation Report
        Authors         : Shitanshu Shah
                          Keyur Patel
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl-00.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2015-08-16

Abstract:
   This document is a report of implementations based on [IDR-SLA].
   [IDR-SLA] introduces a new BGP attribute to exchange QoS SLA
   parameters between BGP peers.  Current status of the implementation
   report covers Cisco implementation on 2 different OS, ExaBGP
   implementation and inter-operability results between them.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-impl-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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On 8/6/2015 9:50 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
> Hi co-authors,
>
> Thanks for this update which looks much better.
>
> I still have three questions as follows:
>
> 1. This draft assumes that NVGRE adopts the same approach to carrying
> IP traffic as VXLAN. However, NVGRE has a protocol field and
> therefore it could directly carry IP traffic w/o adding the fake
> Ethernet header between the IP payload and the GRE header (see
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nvo3/current/msg01520.html and
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yong-l3vpn-nvgre-vxlan-encap-03#page-3.)
> Hence, how about considering the simpler layer3 overlay for NVGRE?

Our reference for the NVGRE encapsulation was 
draft-sridharan-virtualization-nvgre-08.txt, which is now on the RFC 
Editor's queue for publication as an Informational draft in the 
"Independent Submissions" stream.  That RFC-to-be only discusses the use 
of NVGRE to carry ethernet frames.  Draft-yong-l3vpn-nvgre-vxlan-encap 
discusses the use of NVGRE to carry IP packets (analogous to VXLAN-GPE), 
but that draft is expired.

I have no objection to incorporating the idea of draft-yong into the 
tunnel-encaps draft, if that's what the relevant WGs support, but it 
would be nice to see some further discussion first.

>
> 2. It said "...Note that if none of the TLVs specifies the MPLS
> tunnel type, a Label Switched Path SHOULD NOT be used." IMO, since
> the LSP is signaled by label distribution protocols such as LDP,
> RSVP-TE or L-BGP, why is it still necessary to specify the tunnel
> encapsulation attribute to indicate whether or not an LSP should be
> used.

If the tunnel encapsulation attribute is present, identifying one or 
more tunnel types, the semantics are that one should try to send packets 
through one of the identified tunnel types (if possible).  So if MPLS is 
not specified as one of the tunnel types, the use of an MPLS LSP for 
transport would have to be avoided.  The presence of a TLV identifying 
an MPLS tunnel type would indicate that the use of an MPLS transport 
tunnel is one of the permissible options for transmitting the packets.

> 3. Since this draft has mentioned the encapsulation of MPLS over
> VXLAN/NVGRE, would you please give any clue to the scenario of this
> special encapsulation?

Any IP-based overlay should be able to pass an MPLS packet with an 
arbitrary label stack.


From nobody Tue Aug 18 04:12:47 2015
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From: Pushpasis Sarkar <psarkar@juniper.net>
To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, "keyupate@cisco.com" <keyupate@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
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Subject: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
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Hi Stefano/Keyur,

I noticed the following typo in the latest version of the draft. Hoping it =
will be corrected in the next version..


4.2.  IPv6 SID

   The Label-Index TLV MUST be present in the Prefix-SID attribute
   attached to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) and
   has the following format:

This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinion :)

Thanks
-Pushpasis

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-ser=
if;">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hi Stefano/Keyur,</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I noticed the following typo in the lat=
est version of the draft. Hoping it will be corrected in the next version..=
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; overflow: auto; font-family: 'PT Mono=
', Monaco, monospace; padding: 10px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 10.5px=
; line-height: 1.214; word-break: break-all; word-wrap: break-word; backgro=
und-color: rgb(255, 253, 245); border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); border=
-top-left-radius: 4px; border-top-right-radius: 4px; border-bottom-right-ra=
dius: 4px; border-bottom-left-radius: 4px;"><span class=3D"m_h" style=3D"co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0); box-sizing: border-box;">4.2.  IPv6 SID</span>

   The <font color=3D"#ff0000">Label-Index</font> TLV MUST be present in th=
e Prefix-SID attribute
   attached to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) and
   has the following format:</pre>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinio=
n :)</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thanks</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">-Pushpasis</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D1F910E62DC03psarkarjunipernet_--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Pushpasis Sarkar <psarkar@juniper.net>, "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
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Subject: [Idr] draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05 - WG Adoption call completed, this draft is adopted as WG draft
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Acee, Pushpasis, Keyur and Stefano:=20

=20

The WG Adoption call is closed, and this draft has been adopted.  Please =
submit the draft as:

=20

draft-idr-prefix-sid-00.txt=20

=20

Sue Hares

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 7:40 AM
To: Pushpasis Sarkar; Stefano Previdi (sprevidi); Keyur Patel (keyupate)
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05

=20

Hi Pushpasis,=20

Agreed. This should be fixed when the draft is republished as an IDR WG =
document.=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Pushpasis Sarkar =
<psarkar@juniper.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 7:12 AM
To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, "Keyur Patel =
(keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05

=20

Hi Stefano/Keyur,

=20

I noticed the following typo in the latest version of the draft. Hoping =
it will be corrected in the next version..=20

=20

4.2.  IPv6 SID
=20
   The Label-Index TLV MUST be present in the Prefix-SID attribute
   attached to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) and
   has the following format:

=20

This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinion :)

=20

Thanks

-Pushpasis


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Acee, Pushpasis, Keyur and Stefano: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The WG Adoption call is closed, and this draft has been =
adopted.=C2=A0 Please submit the draft as:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>draft-idr-prefix-sid-00.txt <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 7:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Pushpasis Sarkar; Stefano Previdi (sprevidi); Keyur Patel =
(keyupate)<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] =
Correction for =
draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Hi Pushpasis,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Agreed. This should be fixed when the draft is republished as an IDR WG =
document.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Pushpasis Sarkar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:psarkar@juniper.net">psarkar@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Dat=
e: </b>Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 7:12 AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;Stefano =
Previdi (sprevidi)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sprevidi@cisco.com">sprevidi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;Keyur Patel (keyupate)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:keyupate@cisco.com">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>[Idr] Correction for =
draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Hi Stefano/Keyur,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>I noticed the following typo in the latest version of the draft. Hoping =
it will be corrected in the next =
version..&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
style=3D'mso-element:para-border-div;border:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:8.0pt 8.0pt 8.0pt 8.0pt;background:#FFFDF5'><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:7.9pt;background:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all;bord=
er:none;padding:0in;box-sizing: border-box;word-wrap: =
break-word;border-top-left-radius: 4px;border-top-right-radius: =
4px;border-bottom-right-radius: 4px;border-bottom-left-radius: =
4px;overflow:auto'><span class=3Dmh><span =
style=3D'color:black'>4.2.=C2=A0 IPv6 SID</span></span><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:7.9pt;background:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all;bord=
er:none;padding:0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:7.9pt;background:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all;bord=
er:none;padding:0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 The =
</span><span style=3D'color:red'>Label-Index</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'> TLV MUST be present in the Prefix-SID =
attribute<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:7.9pt;background:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all;bord=
er:none;padding:0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 attached =
to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) =
and<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-bottom:7.9pt;background:#FFFDF5;word-break:break-all;bord=
er:none;padding:0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 has the =
following format:<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinion =
:)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>-Pushpasis<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></b=
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Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as
IDR WG document.  At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as
supporting TRILL.  This WG adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted to
TRILL WG. 

 

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.  

 

The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;

 

1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?  

2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense? 

3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document? 

 

Sue Hares 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>This =
begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as =
IDR WG document. &nbsp;At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for =
the as supporting TRILL.&nbsp; This WG adoption call for IDR is being =
cross-posted to TRILL WG. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The authors =
should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate =
whether;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in =
deployments? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make =
sense? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Do you see any technical flaws with the =
document? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0141_01D0D999.D6392F80--


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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<author hat on> 

I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft. 

</author hat off> 

 

Sue Hares 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:40 AM
To: idr@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
Cc: 'Donald Eastlake'
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1

 

This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as
IDR WG document.  At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as
supporting TRILL.  This WG adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted to
TRILL WG. 

 

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.  

 

The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;

 

1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?  

2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense? 

3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document? 

 

Sue Hares 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;author hat on&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I am not aware of any =
IPR related to this draft. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;/author hat off&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue Hares =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan =
Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
idr@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Donald =
Eastlake'<br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Adoption of =
draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to =
9/1<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This begins =
a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as IDR WG =
document. &nbsp;At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as =
supporting TRILL.&nbsp; This WG adoption call for IDR is being =
cross-posted to TRILL WG. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The authors =
should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate =
whether;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in =
deployments? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make =
sense? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Do you see any technical flaws with the =
document? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_018A_01D0D99B.983542D0--


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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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Support.

Linda


From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:40 AM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>; trill@ietf.org<mailto:trill@ietf.org=
>
Cc: 'Donald Eastlake'
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1

This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as =
IDR WG document.  At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as s=
upporting TRILL.  This WG adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted to TR=
ILL WG.

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.

The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;


1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?

2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense?

3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document?

Sue Hares

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D12DD6dfweml701chm_
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n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Support. <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Linda<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mai=
lto:trill@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Donald Eastlake'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 t=
o 9/1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-=
idr-ls-trill-02.txt as IDR WG document. &nbsp;At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG in=
dicated support for the as supporting TRILL.&nbsp; This WG adoption call fo=
r IDR is being cross-posted to TRILL WG.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The authors should indicate whether they know of any=
 IPR on this document.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether=
;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in de=
ployments? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make se=
nse? <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Do you see any technical flaws with the document? <=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D12DD6dfweml701chm_--


From nobody Wed Aug 19 08:22:06 2015
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From: Andrew Qu <andrew.qu@mediatek.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "trill@ietf.org" <trill@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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--_000_EA360A7AB9D90D4B9E9173B6D27C371EE3F8007CMTKMBS61N1media_
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Hi Sue,

I am supporting this proposal=2E  customers may have small trill cloud (due=
 to
many reasons of network design, or SW capacity etc),  inter-connecting =
multiple
TRILL clouds become inevitable requirements=2E  the control plane like this=
 will definitely
become helpful for those vendors to provide inter-connecting approach=2E

Of course, there are cases where DCI also need such control plane to =
support if
TRILL domain to be connected=2E

Thanks,

Andrew

From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf=2Eorg] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 6:40 AM
To: idr@ietf=2Eorg; trill@ietf=2Eorg
Cc: 'Donald Eastlake'; 'Haoweiguo'
Subject: [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02=2Etxt - 8/18 to =
9/1

This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02=2Etxt =
as IDR WG document=2E  At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the=
 as supporting TRILL=2E  This WG adoption call for IDR is being =
cross-posted to TRILL WG=2E

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this =
document=2E

The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;


1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?

2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense?

3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document?

Sue Hares
=0D
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From nobody Wed Aug 19 10:40:19 2015
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:43:01 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk>
Message-ID: <20150819174301.GK12359@pfrc.org>
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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On Sat, Aug 08, 2015 at 05:56:33PM +0000, Duleep Thilakarathne wrote:
> I analyzed full BGP routing table (541,199 routes) with two tier 1 ISP
> multi-homing scenario and found nearly 50% of routes have equal AS-PATH
> length. In this analysis It was considered, there was no route policy
> applied to influence local preference. According to BGP best path
> selection algorithm, when AS-PATH lengths  are equal, router breaks tie
> condition based on router internal logic. This does not grantee proper
> outgoing path selection.
> 
> I suggest to introduce new path attribute which carries accumulated
> distance information between different administrative domains. This not
> coincide with RFC 7311 since propose path attribute carries information
> between different administrative domains.

There are a few issues I have with the general idea of the proposal.  Most
of the main ones of concern have been articulated elsewhere in the thread.
There are really two remaining ones I would like to bring up:

1. Incremental deployment of new path attributes intended to have global
impact, especially on something like path selection, are incredibly hard to
deploy.  This consideration is one of the biggest reasons why people get
pushback on their proposals to "how could you do this another way?"

2. "Distance" is rather vague.  As Robert points out, link capacity is often
more important than geographic distance.  And practically speaking,
operators already do some level of balancing act for IGP metrics that
account for capacity vs. topological "closeness".  

What would be interesting in your proposal is to hear why the IGP distance
tie-breaking step doesn't seem to be sufficient in your analysis.

-- Jeff


From nobody Wed Aug 19 10:46:18 2015
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:48:59 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 09:29:15PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Route target is just an extended community and like any other SAFI can be used with vanilla Flow Spec. Likewise it is up to implementation to allow any filtering based on regular/extended/wide communities.
> 
> Just FYI RFC already spells out case of using flow spec routes in the VPN filtering application based on RT import:
> 
> 
> Propagation of this NLRI is controlled by matching Route Target
> extended communities associated with the BGP path advertisement with the VRF import policy, using the same mechanism as describein "BGP/MPLS IP VPNs" [RFC4364<http://www.armware.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc4364.html>] .
> 
> Ok - so it is already in RFC 5575.

And is already being used in another proposal:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-mdcs-00

I think the bigger issue with flowspec is that since it is most often
intended for ebgp neighbors, the "route targets" in question would be
equivalence classes for certain BGP peer types.  I believe this would still
lead to a fairly large amount of flooding of the routes anyway.

It's also worth mentioning that some flowspec environments involve directly
peering with each router to be protected and directly advertising the
mitigation routes on that session.  Distribution through route-reflectors is
certainly becoming more common, but it's not the only scenario.

-- Jeff


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, Duleep Thilakarathne <duleept@Mobitel.lk>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP route selection criteria - new path attribute for geographic distance when AS_PATH are equal for eBGP
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From nobody Wed Aug 19 10:51:46 2015
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Message-ID: <20150819175427.GM12359@pfrc.org>
References: <D1E54BDE.2A20B%acee@cisco.com> <CA+b+ERkFtT-XJvzbfhRBXGUAdVbY3q4gcuzZDsAyMWbwa6gbYQ@mail.gmail.com> <D1E553C6.2A226%acee@cisco.com> <CA+b+ERn3TjEogHa7mrcgmXM3HaNUFV_jAWOqv5p9_0Dxw8QLmw@mail.gmail.com> <779_1438677441_55C079C0_779_11953_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BD7C2@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERk9aGNB=eRY-knZ3Py1rwEhn6RTKfUF1dXwCvEo8YjAmA@mail.gmail.com> <30088_1438689544_55C0A908_30088_4399_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BD85D@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERmUCz56RbkKRRhg9kahC0QL1obJ7cU0fKrYeMJXQm-F8g@mail.gmail.com> <7945_1438762607_55C1C66F_7945_909_5_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BE032@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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On Wed, Aug 05, 2015 at 08:16:46AM +0000, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
> [SLI] Agree, that was my first concern, how to differentiate VPN RTs from IG RTs â€¦ operationally this can be done by splitting the RT space. Acceptable or not ?

Splitting the space is what has largely been done thus far.

> 
> So rather then filtering by RT value they will be much easier to filter by some other code point of extended community type dropping all interface groups you may have. In fact Interface Grouping should perhaps be non transitive in the AS scope to start with.
> 
> We have plenty of those codepoints available for new type so I am really not sure if putting more and more different functionality on RTs is a good way to go.
> 
> Why not to define explicitly new type say (transitive 0x09 and non transitive 0x45) IG Interface Grouping extended community ?
> [SLI] Agree, using a new extCT is the current proposal but we are so loosing the filtering while RT does have it.

As a related example, the ES Import community is getting route-target
filtering  behaviors applied to it in EVPN.

The major issue with simply continuing to add new types that get
route-target filtering treatment is that it makes it difficult to get into
the code.  At some point you abandon well known code points and simply
identify extended communities you're willing to have the behavior work on.
I'm not sure this is the incremental deployment behavior we want.

-- Jeff


From nobody Wed Aug 19 11:59:56 2015
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute without the BGP Encapsulation SAFI
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Gunter Van de Velde
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-00.txt
	Pages           : 29
	Date            : 2015-08-19

Abstract:
   RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
   Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
   of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide
   additional information used to create a tunnel and the corresponding
   encapsulation header, and can also provide information that aids in
   choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent through a
   particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is only
   carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
   Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document updates RFC 5512
   by deprecating the Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used),and
   by specifying semantics for the attribute when it is carried in
   UPDATEs of certain other SAFIs.  This document also extends the
   attribute by enabling it to carry additional information needed to
   create the encapsulation headers additional tunnel types not
   mentioned in RFC 5512.  Finally, this document also extends the
   attribute by allowing it to specify a remote tunnel endpoint address
   for each tunnel.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From nobody Thu Aug 20 00:54:22 2015
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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From nobody Thu Aug 20 06:43:42 2015
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 07:54:16AM +0000, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> [JH] The major issue with simply continuing to add new types that get route-target filtering treatment is that it makes it difficult to get into the code.  At some point you abandon well known code points and simply identify extended communities you're willing to have the behavior work on. I'm not sure this is the incremental deployment behavior we want.
> 
> [SLI] Is it really an issue to generalize constrained route distribution to any kind of extended community ?

Expectations, mostly.  Considering that BGP's biggest headache tends to be
incremental deployment, you now need to deal with implementations that only
do it for RT extended communities.  

To channel Yakov a bit, is there any reason *why* things we want to have
this behavior shouldn't use RT types?

-- Jeff


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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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In our case, we can use a RT rather than the current proposed exct.
The issue I see by using a standard RT :
- how to manage overlapping with VPN RTs ? As we discussed we can use separ=
ate RT spaces. But we need to ensure that a VPN FS route can have RTs for V=
PN belonging and RTs for specifying interface-set within the VPN.=20

- we cannot encode anymore the direction of the filter.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Haas [mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org]=20
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 15:46
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
Cc: Robert Raszuk; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 07:54:16AM +0000, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wro=
te:
> Hi Jeff,
>=20
> [JH] The major issue with simply continuing to add new types that get rou=
te-target filtering treatment is that it makes it difficult to get into the=
 code.  At some point you abandon well known code points and simply identif=
y extended communities you're willing to have the behavior work on. I'm not=
 sure this is the incremental deployment behavior we want.
>=20
> [SLI] Is it really an issue to generalize constrained route distribution =
to any kind of extended community ?

Expectations, mostly.  Considering that BGP's biggest headache tends to be =
incremental deployment, you now need to deal with implementations that only=
 do it for RT extended communities.=20=20

To channel Yakov a bit, is there any reason *why* things we want to have th=
is behavior shouldn't use RT types?

-- Jeff

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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Message-ID: <20150820140004.GP12359@pfrc.org>
References: <CA+b+ERn3TjEogHa7mrcgmXM3HaNUFV_jAWOqv5p9_0Dxw8QLmw@mail.gmail.com> <779_1438677441_55C079C0_779_11953_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BD7C2@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERk9aGNB=eRY-knZ3Py1rwEhn6RTKfUF1dXwCvEo8YjAmA@mail.gmail.com> <30088_1438689544_55C0A908_30088_4399_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BD85D@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERmUCz56RbkKRRhg9kahC0QL1obJ7cU0fKrYeMJXQm-F8g@mail.gmail.com> <7945_1438762607_55C1C66F_7945_909_5_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BE032@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20150819175427.GM12359@pfrc.org> <19662_1440057257_55D587A9_19662_1971_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166C1802@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20150820134625.GN12359@pfrc.org> <22493_1440078714_55D5DB7A_22493_1352_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166C3C44@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Stephane,

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 01:51:53PM +0000, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
> In our case, we can use a RT rather than the current proposed exct.
> The issue I see by using a standard RT :
> - how to manage overlapping with VPN RTs ? As we discussed we can use separate RT spaces. But we need to ensure that a VPN FS route can have RTs for VPN belonging and RTs for specifying interface-set within the VPN. 
> 
> - we cannot encode anymore the direction of the filter.

I agree that for the interface-set proposal we have some selfish reasons we
want it to behave a specific way. :-)

Part of what I'm hoping to discuss as a result of this point is what
properties would we expect to need to fully generalize the route-filtering
behavior for non-RT routes?  The MDCS proposal already points out that we
can use RT for non-VPN routes.  Code already supports RT filtering.

What we're generally proposing is that RT-Constrain is no longer just for
route-targets.  Is it fully general? If so, what are the problems?  Is it
not fully general and what we really want is to use a route-target type,
potentially with new sub-types to allow for keeping VPN and non-VPN
targets disjoint?  Etc.

It should be noted that the ES-Import extended community effectively appears
to be a RT based on its high-order byte.

-- Jeff


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Subject: [Idr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-06.txt> (Autonomous System Migration Mechanisms and Their Effects on the BGP AS_PATH Attribute) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Inter-Domain Routing WG (idr) to
consider the following document:
- 'Autonomous System Migration Mechanisms and Their Effects on the BGP
   AS_PATH Attribute'
  <draft-ietf-idr-as-migration-06.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2015-09-03. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   This draft discusses some existing commonly-used BGP mechanisms for
   ASN migration that are not formally part of the BGP4 protocol
   specification.  It is necessary to document these de facto standards
   to ensure that they are properly supported in future BGP protocol
   work.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-as-migration/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.



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Subject: [Idr] Protocol Action: 'Clarification of the Flowspec Redirect Extended Community' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis-05.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'Clarification of the Flowspec Redirect Extended Community'
  (draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis-05.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah
Brungard.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-rt-bis/





Technical Summary

  This document clarifies the formatting of the the BGP Flowspec
  Redirect Extended Community, originally documented in RFC 5575
  (Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules).

Working Group Summary

  This document is simple and straightforward. There
  is good supports from the WG to publish.

Document Quality

  The draft has been reviewed by several IDR WG experts, it also
  passed the RTG QA review. All comments received so far have
  been solved.

Personnel

  Document Shepherd: Mach Chen (mach@huawei.com)
  Responsible Area Director: Alvaro Retana (aretana@cisco.com)


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Cc: idr@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org, isis-wg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] questions about draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-11
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hi peng,

On Thu, Jul 02, 2015 at 10:13:57AM +0800, peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn wrote:
|    hi hannes & other authors
| 
|    As described in [Link-State Info Distribution using BGP] (see Section
|    3.2.2, ˇ°Link Descriptorsˇ±), the IP address TLVs (TLV code 259-262) or
|    the link local/remote Identifier TLV (TLV code 258) are included in the
|    link descriptor.
|    ˇ°The information about a link present in the LSA/LSP originated by the
|    local node of the link determines the set of TLVs in the Link Descriptor
|    of the link.
|          If interface and neighbor addresses, either IPv4 or IPv6, are
|    present, then the IP address TLVs are included in the link descriptor, but
|    not the link local/remote Identifier TLV.  The      link local/remote
|    identifiers MAY be included in the link attribute.
|          If interface and neighbor addresses are not present and the link
|    local/remote identifiers are present, then the link local/remote
|    Identifier TLV is included in the link descriptor.ˇ±
| 
|    When the underlying IGP is IS-IS, LSP originated by the local node of the
|    link MAY NOT include IPv4 interface address/IPv4 neighbor address or Link
|    Local/Remote Identifiers sub-TLV in the (main) IS reachability TLV when
|    MPLS Traffic Engineering is not configured for IS-IS (see Section 3.2,
|    ˇ°Sub-TLV 6: IPv4 Interface Addressˇ±, of [RFC5305] and Section 1.1,
|    ˇ°Link Local/Remote Identifiersˇ±, of [RFC5307], respectively).
| 
|    Thus, BGP-LS speaker MAY learn the mentioned link information, from LSP
|    flooding process, without detailed interface IP/ID information of all IGP
|    nodes in the BGP-LS domain.  If CONSUMER collect link-state information of
|    whole domain only from one BGP-LS speaker, it can only establish one SPT ,
|    which root is the BGP-LS speaker. In some case, CONSUMER need create
|    different SPT for different device. For example, in central spring
|    network, the CONTROLLER need download ILM entry for a global label to each
|    router, the ILM forwarding information is decided by each router's SPT. It
|    is different for different router.
| 
|    some solutions could be:
|    1) all IGP nodes in the BGP-LS domain are BGP-LS speakers, where only
|    local link information need to be collected and sent to CONSUMER.
|    2) one BGP-LS speaker, but all link are configured MPLS Traffic
|    Engineering(not certainly including signal configuration).
| 
|    Do you have any suggestions about this issue?

i'd be in favour of 1) - /hannes


From nobody Fri Aug 21 06:09:26 2015
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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:32:24 -0400
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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Cc: idr@ietf.org, "trill@ietf.org" <trill@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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I am not aware of any IPR in this draft.

I support the adoption of this draft by the IDR WG. I think it makes
sense to use the ls-distributions mechanisms, particularly to support
centralized controllers.

Thanks,
Donald
=============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com


On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
> This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as
> IDR WG document.  At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as
> supporting TRILL.  This WG adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted to
> TRILL WG.
>
>
>
> The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.
>
>
>
> The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;
>
>
>
> 1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?
>
> 2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense?
>
> 3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document?
>
>
>
> Sue Hares


From nobody Fri Aug 21 08:00:16 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Thread-Topic: [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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Support,=20

Linda

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
> This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for=20
> draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as IDR WG document.  At IETF 93 by the=20
> TRILL WG indicated support for the as supporting TRILL.  This WG=20
> adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted to TRILL WG.
>
>
>
> The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document=
.
>
>
>
> The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;
>
>
>
> 1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?
>
> 2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense?
>
> 3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document?
>
>
>
> Sue Hares

_______________________________________________
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trill@ietf.org
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>, "peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn" <peng.shaofu@zte.com.cn>
Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] questions about draft-ietf-idr-ls-distribution-11
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References: <OFD71E01DE.9A34B51A-ON48257E75.00332E66-48257E76.000C4535@zte.com.cn> <20150821094129.GA32088@hannes-mba.local>
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From nobody Mon Aug 24 09:05:29 2015
Return-Path: <thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk>
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From: "Thomas Mangin" <thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk>
To: "idr wg" <idr@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:05:21 +0100
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Subject: [Idr] Clarification about MP (rfc4760)
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Hello,

I am seeking clarification on how an implementation implementing RFC 
4760 should behave when it does not announce the family IPv4/Unicast but 
receive it from its peers and then:
  - receive an UPDATE with normal IPv4 routes
  - receive a MP_(U)REACH update with IPv4 NLRI
As it would seems that some implementation send normal IPv4 NLRI even if 
the MP negotiation is excluding this family.

For the later, the best I found was 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling-19#section-5.4 
which ignores ignore typed NLRI not announced.
I assume it would be logical to behave the same way for the former.

Sorry if this was already clarified and if I missed it - my googling and 
use of tools.ietf.org would have failed me.

Thank you,

Thomas


From nobody Tue Aug 25 16:18:57 2015
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:18:50 +0000
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References: <CA+b+ERn3TjEogHa7mrcgmXM3HaNUFV_jAWOqv5p9_0Dxw8QLmw@mail.gmail.com> <779_1438677441_55C079C0_779_11953_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BD7C2@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERk9aGNB=eRY-knZ3Py1rwEhn6RTKfUF1dXwCvEo8YjAmA@mail.gmail.com> <30088_1438689544_55C0A908_30088_4399_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BD85D@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERmUCz56RbkKRRhg9kahC0QL1obJ7cU0fKrYeMJXQm-F8g@mail.gmail.com> <7945_1438762607_55C1C66F_7945_909_5_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166BE032@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20150819175427.GM12359@pfrc.org> <19662_1440057257_55D587A9_19662_1971_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166C1802@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20150820134625.GN12359@pfrc.org> <22493_1440078714_55D5DB7A_22493_1352_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92166C3C44@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20150820140004.GP12359@pfrc.org>
In-Reply-To: <20150820140004.GP12359@pfrc.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01
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Hi Jeff,

I was not aware of this MDCS proposal, thanks for pointing it.
MDCS use also the concept of "per-port" filtering based on flowspec but at =
controlplane level. It's good to see that the proposal is based on RTs and =
usage of include/exclude pair of RTs sound to facilitate policy expression =
(As Robert pointed, wide communities would also ;)).

Regarding Constraint route distribution generalization to something else th=
an RT ... well does it make sense ? By definition Route Target identifies s=
ome network components that are interested by a set of routes. So constrain=
t route distribution makes sense as we know that routes with RTs do not int=
erest everyone. If we take the example of SOO (Route Origin), this identifi=
es a particular site, but the site is not interested by the routes with the=
 same site ID. For generic communities, the usage is very large, for sure i=
t can express some "RT-like" behavior (moreover we used standard communitie=
s for this purpose years before RTs were born), but now we have RT for this=
 purpose, so I would tend to say, let's keep constraint route distribution =
for RT.

But as RT defined in RFC4360 has some limited forms of encoding (AS:nnn, IP=
:nnn), it may not fit some more specific encoding needs, so we can create n=
ew RTs as ES-import. We can keep the 0x02 as subtype and creating new RTs b=
y changing the high order octet (like ES-import). But this limit the number=
 of different type of RT encoding to 64. That may be a good option. Constra=
int Route distribution can be generalized in this case by matching only the=
 subtype 0x02 (so when a new RT encoding appears, it is automatically avail=
able for RTC).=20

As for ES-import, we may be able to create for interfaceset two new RT enco=
dings : type 0x0X or 0x4X (transitive and non transitive instances), subtyp=
e 0x02 (RT), then 4B-ASN, followed by the same encoding as proposed today.


Best Regards,


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Haas [mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org]=20
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 16:00
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
Cc: Robert Raszuk; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Progressing draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-01

Stephane,

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 01:51:53PM +0000, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wro=
te:
> In our case, we can use a RT rather than the current proposed exct.
> The issue I see by using a standard RT :
> - how to manage overlapping with VPN RTs ? As we discussed we can use sep=
arate RT spaces. But we need to ensure that a VPN FS route can have RTs for=
 VPN belonging and RTs for specifying interface-set within the VPN.=20
>=20
> - we cannot encode anymore the direction of the filter.

I agree that for the interface-set proposal we have some selfish reasons we=
 want it to behave a specific way. :-)

Part of what I'm hoping to discuss as a result of this point is what proper=
ties would we expect to need to fully generalize the route-filtering behavi=
or for non-RT routes?  The MDCS proposal already points out that we can use=
 RT for non-VPN routes.  Code already supports RT filtering.

What we're generally proposing is that RT-Constrain is no longer just for r=
oute-targets.  Is it fully general? If so, what are the problems?  Is it no=
t fully general and what we really want is to use a route-target type, pote=
ntially with new sub-types to allow for keeping VPN and non-VPN targets dis=
joint?  Etc.

It should be noted that the ES-Import extended community effectively appear=
s to be a RT based on its high-order byte.

-- Jeff

___________________________________________________________________________=
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Subject: [Idr] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7607 (4455)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7607,
"Codification of AS 0 Processing".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=7607&eid=4455

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: StĂ©phane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer+ietf@nic.fr>

Section: 5.1

Original Text
-------------
N/A

Corrected Text
--------------
N/A

Notes
-----
The normative reference to RFC 7606 is dangling (7606 has not been published).

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC7607 (draft-ietf-idr-as0-06)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Codification of AS 0 Processing
Publication Date    : August 2015
Author(s)           : W. Kumari, R. Bush, H. Schiller, K. Patel
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [Idr] RFC 7606 on Revised Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7606

        Title:      Revised Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages 
        Author:     E. Chen, Ed.,
                    J. Scudder, Ed.,
                    P. Mohapatra,
                    K. Patel
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       August 2015
        Mailbox:    enkechen@cisco.com, 
                    jgs@juniper.net, 
                    mpradosh@yahoo.com,  keyupate@cisco.com
        Pages:      19
        Characters: 42141
        Updates:    RFC 1997, RFC 4271, RFC 4360, RFC 4456, 
                    RFC 4760, RFC 5543, RFC 5701, RFC 6368

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-idr-error-handling-19.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7606

        DOI:        http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7606

According to the base BGP specification, a BGP speaker that receives
an UPDATE message containing a malformed attribute is required to
reset the session over which the offending attribute was received.
This behavior is undesirable because a session reset would impact not
only routes with the offending attribute but also other valid routes
exchanged over the session.  This document partially revises the
error handling for UPDATE messages and provides guidelines for the
authors of documents defining new attributes.  Finally, it revises
the error handling procedures for a number of existing attributes.

This document updates error handling for RFCs 1997, 4271, 4360, 4456,
4760, 5543, 5701, and 6368.

This document is a product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track
protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Official
Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the 
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 05:33:51 +0900
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7607 (4455)
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i suspect that, having secret knowledge, the rfced changed an i-d
reference to an rfc reference

randy


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From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: EXT - randy <randy@psg.com>
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7607 (4455)
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7607 (4455)
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On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
>=20
> i suspect that, having secret knowledge, the rfced changed an i-d
> reference to an rfc reference

Yep: https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc7606.txt

The erratum should be closed.=20

Thanks,

--John


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Elisa, Nick, Robert, and Niels: 

 

This is a IDR shepherd review for draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-router-server-07. 

 

Status: Ready with one editorial nit 

Comment: Nicely written. 

 

Editorial Nit: 

Please add to the third paragraph of section 5 the following sentence.

 

"Please note that RFC1863 has been made historical by RFC4223."

 

Sue Hares 

 

PS - Geoff Houston is doing a Routing Area review, and this is due on 9/11. 

 You may want to update this into -08 quickly so that Geoff does not find
the same nit. 

 

 


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Nick, Robert, and Niels: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This is a =
IDR shepherd review for draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-router-server-07. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Status: Ready with one editorial nit <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Comment: Nicely written. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Editorial =
Nit: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Please add to the third =
paragraph of section 5 the following sentence.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&#8220;Please note that RFC1863 has been made =
historical by RFC4223.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>PS &#8211; Geoff Houston is doing a Routing Area =
review, and this is due on 9/11. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;You may want to update this into -08 quickly so =
that Geoff does not find the same nit. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
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Subject: [Idr] [Errata Rejected] RFC7607 (4455)
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The following errata report has been rejected for RFC7607,
"Codification of AS 0 Processing".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=7607&eid=4455

--------------------------------------
Status: Rejected
Type: Editorial

Reported by: StĂ©phane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer+ietf@nic.fr>
Date Reported: 2015-08-26
Rejected by: Alvaro Retana (IESG)

Section: 5.1

Original Text
-------------
N/A

Corrected Text
--------------
N/A

Notes
-----
The normative reference to RFC 7606 is dangling (7606 has not been published).

===

(Alvaro Retana)  rfc7606 is a valid reference.
 --VERIFIER NOTES-- 
rfc7606 is a valid reference. 

--------------------------------------
RFC7607 (draft-ietf-idr-as0-06)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Codification of AS 0 Processing
Publication Date    : August 2015
Author(s)           : W. Kumari, R. Bush, H. Schiller, K. Patel
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Thread-Topic: draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05 - WG Adoption call completed, this draft is adopted as WG draft 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05 - WG Adoption call completed, this draft is adopted as WG draft
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just submitted draft-ietf-idr-prefix-sid-00.txt

Thanks.
s.



On Aug 18, 2015, at 3:32 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
> Acee, Pushpasis, Keyur and Stefano:
> =20
> The WG Adoption call is closed, and this draft has been adopted.  Please =
submit the draft as:
> =20
> draft-idr-prefix-sid-00.txt
> =20
> Sue Hares
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 7:40 AM
> To: Pushpasis Sarkar; Stefano Previdi (sprevidi); Keyur Patel (keyupate)
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
> =20
> Hi Pushpasis,=20
> Agreed. This should be fixed when the draft is republished as an IDR WG d=
ocument.=20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Pushpasis Sarkar <psarkar@j=
uniper.net>
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 7:12 AM
> To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, "Keyur Patel (keyu=
pate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
> Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
> =20
> Hi Stefano/Keyur,
> =20
> I noticed the following typo in the latest version of the draft. Hoping i=
t will be corrected in the next version..=20
> =20
> 4.2.  IPv6 SID
> =20
>    The Label-Index TLV MUST be present in the Prefix-SID attribute
>    attached to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) and
>    has the following format:
> =20
> This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinion :)
> =20
> Thanks
> -Pushpasis


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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
To: Pushpasis Sarkar <psarkar@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:03:14 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
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Hi Pushpasis,

thanks for the comment. I just submitted with your fix.

Thanks.
s.


On Aug 18, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Pushpasis Sarkar <psarkar@juniper.net> wrote:

> Hi Stefano/Keyur,
>=20
> I noticed the following typo in the latest version of the draft. Hoping i=
t will be corrected in the next version..=20
>=20
> 4.2.  IPv6 SID
>=20
>=20
>    The=20
> Label-Index
>  TLV MUST be present in the Prefix-SID attribute
>    attached to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) and
>    has the following format:
>=20
>=20
> This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinion :)
>=20
> Thanks
> -Pushpasis


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing Prefix SID extensions for BGP
        Authors         : Keyur Patel
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Arjun Sreekantiah
                          Saikat Ray
                          Hannes Gredler
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2015-08-27

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) architecture allows a node to steer a packet
   flow through any topological path and service chain by leveraging
   source routing.  The ingress node prepends a SR header to a packet
   containing a set of "segments".  Each segment represents a
   topological or a service-based instruction.  Per-flow state is
   maintained only at the ingress node of the SR domain.

   This document describes the BGP extension for announcing BGP Prefix
   Segment Identifier (BGP Prefix SID) information.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Aug 27 08:59:49 2015
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Clarification about MP (rfc4760)
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On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 05:05:21PM +0100, Thomas Mangin wrote:
> I am seeking clarification on how an implementation implementing RFC
> 4760 should behave when it does not announce the family IPv4/Unicast
> but receive it from its peers and then:
>  - receive an UPDATE with normal IPv4 routes
>  - receive a MP_(U)REACH update with IPv4 NLRI
> As it would seems that some implementation send normal IPv4 NLRI
> even if the MP negotiation is excluding this family.

When the multi-protocol extensions were introduced, initially covering
adding multicast reachability, there really wasn't any provision made to
*exclude* existing IPv4-unicast behavior if the capability wasn't announced.
At best, if you announce the capability, it suggests that you could encode
ipv4-unicast in the MP section if you wanted to.

There was also a rather ugly mess covering SAFI 3, but thankfully we got
beyond that. :-)

> For the later, the best I found was https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-error-handling-19#section-5.4
> which ignores ignore typed NLRI not announced.
> I assume it would be logical to behave the same way for the former.

I wouldn't apply this to regular IP reachability.  The typed routes in
question are literally route types, 1..N in the NLRI in question.  Basically
structured routes that derive a portion of their structure from a type
field.

-- Jeff


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From nobody Fri Aug 28 12:51:54 2015
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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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References: <012d01d0d9ba$64a82530$2df86f90$@ndzh.com> <3721C228-916E-4F8B-9AC7-53B0CC7F6AA7@cisco.com> <D205E09A.2D01B%acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05 - WG Adoption call completed, this draft is adopted as WG draft
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Acee:=20

<WG chair hat on>=20
I'm glad to support this early adoption.  I will prepare the shepherds =
report and talk to Alvaro Retano.=20
<WG chair hat off>

Sue Hares=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 10:00 AM
To: Routing ADs; idr-chairs@ietf.org
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05 - WG Adoption call =
completed, this draft is adopted as WG draft

Speaking as a Draft Contributor,

I would like to request Early IANA allocation of the Prefix-SID =
attribute code point. While the draft enumerates a specific code point, =
selection of this code point is not mandatory. The process for early =
allocation of IANA code points for standards track documents is =
described in RFC 7120.

Thanks,
Acee=20



On 8/27/15, 7:02 AM, "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
wrote:

>just submitted draft-ietf-idr-prefix-sid-00.txt
>
>Thanks.
>s.
>
>
>
>On Aug 18, 2015, at 3:32 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
>> Acee, Pushpasis, Keyur and Stefano:
>> =20
>> The WG Adoption call is closed, and this draft has been adopted.
>>Please submit the draft as:
>> =20
>> draft-idr-prefix-sid-00.txt
>> =20
>> Sue Hares
>> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem=20
>> (acee)
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 7:40 AM
>> To: Pushpasis Sarkar; Stefano Previdi (sprevidi); Keyur Patel=20
>> (keyupate)
>> Cc: idr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
>> =20
>> Hi Pushpasis,
>> Agreed. This should be fixed when the draft is republished as an IDR=20
>>WG document.
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> =20
>> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Pushpasis Sarkar=20
>><psarkar@juniper.net>
>> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 7:12 AM
>> To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, "Keyur Patel=20
>>(keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
>> Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Idr] Correction for draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05
>> =20
>> Hi Stefano/Keyur,
>> =20
>> I noticed the following typo in the latest version of the draft.=20
>>Hoping it will be corrected in the next version..
>> =20
>> 4.2.  IPv6 SID
>> =20
>>    The Label-Index TLV MUST be present in the Prefix-SID attribute
>>    attached to MP-BGP unlabeled IPv6 unicast prefixes ([RFC4760]) and
>>    has the following format:
>> =20
>> This is should be IPV6 SID in my opinion :)
>> =20
>> Thanks
>> -Pushpasis
>



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Subject: [Idr] Grow has WG LC draft-ietf-grow-route-lead-problem Defintion
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IDR WG: 

 

Grow has complemented a WG last call on
draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition  

(
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definitio
n/). 

 

This draft is related to IDR mechanisms found in: 

 
<http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigat
ion/> draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-00

 

If you would like to make comments on the grow draft, please respond to this
message. 

 

Sue Hares 

 


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	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>IDR WG: =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Grow has complemented a WG last call on =
draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>( <a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-proble=
m-definition/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-route-leak=
-problem-definition/</a>). <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This draft =
is related to IDR mechanisms found in: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detecti=
on-mitigation/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;color:#3D22B3;background:#F9F9F9;text-decoratio=
n:none'>draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-00</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>If you would like to make comments on the grow draft, =
please respond to this message. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares =
<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-keyupate-idr-prefix-sid-05 - WG Adoption call completed, this draft is adopted as WG draft
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From: Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "trill@ietf.org" <trill@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:31:43 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1
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Support. I believe it is a useful feature for TRILL domain interconnection.

Thanks,
Yizhou

From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:40 PM
To: idr@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
Cc: 'Donald Eastlake'; Haoweiguo
Subject: [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18 to 9/1

This begins a 2 week WG Adoption call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as =
IDR WG document.  At IETF 93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as s=
upporting TRILL.  This WG adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted to TR=
ILL WG.

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR on this document.

The IDR and TRILL WG members should indicate whether;


1)      TRILL information is necessary to pass in BGP in deployments?

2)      Does this use of ls-distribution mechanisms make sense?

3)      Do you see any technical flaws with the document?

Sue Hares

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Support. I believe it is a useful feature for TRILL domain interc=
onnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Yizhou<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 9:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Donald Eastlake'; Haoweiguo<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [trill] WG Adoption of draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt - 8/18=
 to 9/1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG Adoptio=
n call for draft-hao-idr-ls-trill-02.txt as IDR WG document. &nbsp;At IETF =
93 by the TRILL WG indicated support for the as supporting TRILL.&nbsp; Thi=
s WG adoption call for IDR is being cross-posted
 to TRILL WG. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The authors should indicate whe=
ther they know of any IPR on this document.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The IDR and TRILL WG members sh=
ould indicate whether;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">TRILL information is ne=
cessary to pass in BGP in deployments? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Does this use of ls-dis=
tribution mechanisms make sense?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Do you see any technica=
l flaws with the document?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D408889639FC5E4FADB4E00A3E01FA8F838FA5BBnkgeml503mbxchi_--


From nobody Sat Aug 29 06:22:45 2015
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From: Charles van Niman <charles@phukish.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Cc: idr@ietf.org, "grow@ietf.org grow@ietf.org" <grow@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Grow has WG LC draft-ietf-grow-route-lead-problem Defintion
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Seems like a good document, the only thing I noticed was some of the
citations have trailing slashes when not needed, leading to 404.
[Kapela-Pilosov] [Khare] [Mauch-nanog] for me at least.

/Charles

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
> IDR WG:
>
>
>
> Grow has complemented a WG last call on
> draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition
>
> (
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition/).
>
>
>
> This draft is related to IDR mechanisms found in:
>
> draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-00
>
>
>
> If you would like to make comments on the grow draft, please respond to this
> message.
>
>
>
> Sue Hares
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>


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Subject: [Idr] IDR interim for 8/31/2015 is cancelled
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The IDR interim for 8/31/2015 is cancelled. 

 

Sue 


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From nobody Mon Aug 31 09:25:31 2015
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Internet Exchange BGP Route Server
        Authors         : Elisa Jasinska
                          Nick Hilliard
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Niels Bakker
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-08.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2015-08-31

Abstract:
   This document outlines a specification for multilateral
   interconnections at Internet exchange points (IXPs).  Multilateral
   interconnection is a method of exchanging routing information between
   three or more exterior BGP speakers using a single intermediate
   broker system, referred to as a route server.  Route servers are
   typically used on shared access media networks, such as Internet
   exchange points (IXPs), to facilitate simplified interconnection
   between multiple Internet routers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Aug 31 09:29:18 2015
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On 27/08/2015 01:48, Susan Hares wrote:
> Editorial Nit:
> Please add to the third paragraph of section 5 the following sentence.
> 
> “Please note that RFC1863 has been made historical by RFC4223.”

done + submitted.

Nick

