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From: "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>
To: "'John G. Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] BGP persistence
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Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 13:22:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
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+1..

We are using this..

-----Original Message-----
From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:38 AM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence

It's a fair question!

The last time the WG discussed adopting the item, as I recall there was no =
consensus to do so. It seems as though we should be able to have the conver=
sation again at this point. As you say, we now have actual experience with =
it, which hopefully will help inform the discussion. Also, the current form=
 of the document reflects many updates made to address concerns expressed b=
y the WG about previous versions, so even though it wasn't a WG document, t=
he authors were listening and responding to the WG feedback.

With WG chair hat firmly off my head and contributor-to-the-document hat pr=
ominently displayed, let me suggest (or rather, second Jakob's indirect sug=
gestion) that we adopt and progress the document.

Thanks for bringing it up,

--John

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com> wro=
te:
>=20
> Why is this
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-persistence-03
> persistently not an RFC?
> We have had an implementation for at least a couple of years and others h=
ave also.
>=20
> --
> Jakob Heitz.

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From nobody Sun May  1 15:57:27 2016
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From: "Bertrand Duvivier (bduvivie)" <bduvivie@cisco.com>
To: "'John G. Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] BGP persistence
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Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 22:57:21 +0000
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John,

BGP persistence is deployed by 10+ customers already, mostly in BGP
flowspec use-cases.

Thus +1=20

Best Regards Bertrand Duvivier
Cisco System.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=3DPLcSD8Cbk0fFHTO4bnb3NC8pJka3_ZvoRY







>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder
>Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:38 AM
>To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
>Cc: idr@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
>
>It's a fair question!
>
>The last time the WG discussed adopting the item, as I recall there was
>no consensus to do so. It seems as though we should be able to have the
>conversation again at this point. As you say, we now have actual
>experience with it, which hopefully will help inform the discussion.
>Also, the current form of the document reflects many updates made to
>address concerns expressed by the WG about previous versions, so even
>though it wasn't a WG document, the authors were listening and responding
>to the WG feedback.
>
>With WG chair hat firmly off my head and contributor-to-the-document hat
>prominently displayed, let me suggest (or rather, second Jakob's indirect
>suggestion) that we adopt and progress the document.
>
>Thanks for bringing it up,
>
>--John
>
>> On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
>>wrote:
>>=20
>> Why is this
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-persistence-03
>> persistently not an RFC?
>> We have had an implementation for at least a couple of years and others
>>have also.
>>=20
>> --
>> Jakob Heitz.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Idr mailing list
>Idr@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>_______________________________________________
>Idr mailing list
>Idr@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From nobody Mon May  2 00:11:01 2016
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Subject: [Idr] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
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The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-add-paths/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a well written document. I have one small issue to discuss before
voting "no objection".

At the end of section 2: why path identifier "SHOULD be treated as
opaque" instead of "MUST be treated as opaque"? What are possible reasons
to violate the SHOULD?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It would be better if section 6 is moved earlier in the document, so that
readers can understand why bother with this extension.



From nobody Mon May  2 02:29:29 2016
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>, "'John G. Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'" <jheitz@cisco.com>
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+1 as a co-author
+1 as an IDR contributor: having the discussions on the IDR mailing list, a=
llows IDR participants to contribute, improve the document, and increase it=
s applicability. (unfortunately, at this point, it seems already a bit late)

Thanks
-- Bruno

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of UTTARO, JAMES
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: 'John G. Scudder'; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
> Cc: 'idr@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
>=20
> +1..
>=20
> We are using this..
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:38 AM
> To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
>=20
> It's a fair question!
>=20
> The last time the WG discussed adopting the item, as I recall there was no
> consensus to do so. It seems as though we should be able to have the
> conversation again at this point. As you say, we now have actual experien=
ce
> with it, which hopefully will help inform the discussion. Also, the curre=
nt form
> of the document reflects many updates made to address concerns
> expressed by the WG about previous versions, so even though it wasn't a
> WG document, the authors were listening and responding to the WG
> feedback.
>=20
> With WG chair hat firmly off my head and contributor-to-the-document hat
> prominently displayed, let me suggest (or rather, second Jakob's indirect
> suggestion) that we adopt and progress the document.
>=20
> Thanks for bringing it up,
>=20
> --John
>=20
> > On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Why is this
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-persistence-03
> > persistently not an RFC?
> > We have had an implementation for at least a couple of years and others
> have also.
> >
> > --
> > Jakob Heitz.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Two quick comments:

1) Section 6 says: „The applications are detailed in separate documents.“
Does this doc already exists? A reference would be good!

2) One clarification question: When a path with a new identifier is
advertised this actually does not mean that these two paths are
different, right? Some one could advertise the same path twice with
different identifiers, right? Should this be explicitly mention
somewhere?



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. I'd like to see the security considerations explicitly state that this
could result in a denial of service attack.  The resource consumption is
stated nicely, but it would be good (following RFC3552) to state the type
of attack.

  "This document defines a BGP extension that allows the advertisement
   of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new paths
   implicitly replacing any previous ones.  As a result, multiple paths
   for a large number of prefixes may be received by a BGP speaker
   potentially depleting memory resources or even causing network-wide
   instability."

Adding something like: "This could result in a denial of service
attack."

2. Change the last sentence of the security considerations section in
light of the first paragraph to something like:

From:
   This document introduces no new security concerns in the base
   operation of BGP [RFC4271].

To:
  Security concerns in the base operation of BGP [RFC4271] also apply.



From nobody Tue May  3 03:36:13 2016
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


- section 2: This bit wasn't entirely clear to me: "A
BGP speaker that re-advertises a route MUST generate its
own Path Identifier to be associated with the
re-advertised route." It wasn't clear to me if that
means it's disallowed to use the same path identifier or
not when re-advertising. If it's not allowed that'd seem
to warrant a "MUST NOT" statement, or to say that the
path identifier re-advertised MUST be different from
that in the received advertisement - "it's own" doesn't
quite say the same to me.

- section 5: I wasn't clear what happens in the
following case. Alice advertises prefix-A with no path
identifier, then prefix-A with some path identifier.
Next Alice withdraws prefix-A with no associated path
identifier.  What happens when I get that sequence? (It
may well be clear for those readers who know more about
BGP.)

- What is "bestpath"? If that's defined elsewhere a
reference would be good. (A quick duckduckgo only showed
me Cisco specific answers for bestpath, but others for
"best path.")

- Section 5 (last para): what would "special care" here
mean? If that'd be clear to relevant readers, that's
fine.



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On 5/2/16, 3:11 AM, "iesg on behalf of Alexey Melnikov"
<iesg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:

[Author hat on.]

Alexei:

Hi!

>Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for
>draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: Discuss

I think you reviewed version -13.  Both your points below have already
been addressed in -14.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>DISCUSS:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>This is a well written document. I have one small issue to discuss before
>voting "no objection".
>
>At the end of section 2: why path identifier "SHOULD be treated as
>opaque" instead of "MUST be treated as opaque"? What are possible reasons
>to violate the SHOULD?
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>COMMENT:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>It would be better if section 6 is moved earlier in the document, so that
>readers can understand why bother with this extension.


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Hi Alvaro,
Good point well presented :-)! I will clear.

On Tue, May 3, 2016, at 03:13 PM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote:
> On 5/2/16, 3:11 AM, "iesg on behalf of Alexey Melnikov"
> <iesg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> [Author hat on.]
> 
> Alexei:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> >Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for
> >draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: Discuss
> 
> I think you reviewed version -13.  Both your points below have already
> been addressed in -14.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> 
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >DISCUSS:
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >This is a well written document. I have one small issue to discuss before
> >voting "no objection".
> >
> >At the end of section 2: why path identifier "SHOULD be treated as
> >opaque" instead of "MUST be treated as opaque"? What are possible reasons
> >to violate the SHOULD?
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >COMMENT:
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >It would be better if section 6 is moved earlier in the document, so that
> >readers can understand why bother with this extension.
> 


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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
To: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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On 5/2/16, 5:35 AM, "Mirja Kuehlewind" <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:

[Author hat on.]

Mirja:

Hi!

>2) One clarification question: When a path with a new identifier is
>advertised this actually does not mean that these two paths are
>different, right? Some one could advertise the same path twice with
>different identifiers, right? Should this be explicitly mention
>somewhere?

Right, the two (or more paths) don't have to be different.  I don't think
we need to specifically call the general case out as there is no issue
related to path selection when that is done.

OTOH, we do mention one instance of advertising "the same" path where
there might be a need to differentiate -- take a look at the last
paragraph in Section 6.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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On 5/2/16, 1:58 PM, "iesg on behalf of Kathleen Moriarty"
<iesg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of
Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

[Author hat on.]

Kathleen:

Hi!

Yes, we'll take on both suggestions in the next revision.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>COMMENT:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>1. I'd like to see the security considerations explicitly state that this
>could result in a denial of service attack.  The resource consumption is
>stated nicely, but it would be good (following RFC3552) to state the type
>of attack.
>
>  "This document defines a BGP extension that allows the advertisement
>   of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new paths
>   implicitly replacing any previous ones.  As a result, multiple paths
>   for a large number of prefixes may be received by a BGP speaker
>   potentially depleting memory resources or even causing network-wide
>   instability."
>
>Adding something like: "This could result in a denial of service
>attack."
>
>2. Change the last sentence of the security considerations section in
>light of the first paragraph to something like:
>
>From:
>   This document introduces no new security concerns in the base
>   operation of BGP [RFC4271].
>
>To:
>  Security concerns in the base operation of BGP [RFC4271] also apply.


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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
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On 5/3/16, 6:36 AM, "Stephen Farrell" <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

[Author hat on.]

Stephen:

Hi!

Please see my comments below.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>COMMENT:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>- section 2: This bit wasn't entirely clear to me: "A
>BGP speaker that re-advertises a route MUST generate its
>own Path Identifier to be associated with the
>re-advertised route." It wasn't clear to me if that
>means it's disallowed to use the same path identifier or
>not when re-advertising. If it's not allowed that'd seem
>to warrant a "MUST NOT" statement, or to say that the
>path identifier re-advertised MUST be different from
>that in the received advertisement - "it's own" doesn't
>quite say the same to me.

How the Path ID is selected is a local matter -- the important piece is
that the local router can use it to uniquely identify a specific path.
The intent here is to have every BGP speaker create the Path ID and not
just take the easy path of simply readvertising because there may be
collisions between the Path ID assigned by neighbors and the local ones --
that's the reason for the MUST.

The local assignment may result in the same Path ID as the one which was
received.  That is fine -- as long as the local router did the assignment
itself.


>- section 5: I wasn't clear what happens in the
>following case. Alice advertises prefix-A with no path
>identifier, then prefix-A with some path identifier.
>Next Alice withdraws prefix-A with no associated path
>identifier.  What happens when I get that sequence? (It
>may well be clear for those readers who know more about
>BGP.)

That should never happen.  Section 5 says that if the capability has been
negotiated (Alice is able to send multiple paths and Bob is able to
receive multiple paths), then Alice "MUST generate a route update for the
<AFI, SAFI> based on the combination of the address prefix and the Path
Identifier, and use the extended NLRI encodings...".

If Alice does advertise prefix-A with no Path ID then Bob will detect an
"invalid network field" and reset the session, which is what is specified
in the base BGP spec [rfc4271] -- this document doesn't change the
processing of UPDATES, just the interpretation of the NLRI.


>- What is "bestpath"? If that's defined elsewhere a
>reference would be good. (A quick duckduckgo only showed
>me Cisco specific answers for bestpath, but others for
>"best path.")

Good point!  I guess we're all just used to the colloquial term where
everyone knows it is the best route [rfc4271].   I'll update in the next
revision.


From nobody Tue May  3 09:19:07 2016
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Hi Alvaro,

okay, that=E2=80=99s fine. I was think about a case, where two paths are =
advertised and than maybe someones uses those two paths to do some =
complex multipath routing, while at the end this would be unnecessary as =
both advertised path are physically the same. Not sure if that would =
ever be the case or I=E2=80=99m making things up. If you tell me that =
there is no further discussion needed, that=E2=80=99s fine for me as the =
doc doesn=E2=80=99t really talk at all about any assumptions that should =
be made about the (physical) path that is used.

Mirja




> Am 03.05.2016 um 16:45 schrieb Alvaro Retana (aretana) =
<aretana@cisco.com>:
>=20
> On 5/2/16, 5:35 AM, "Mirja Kuehlewind" <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>=20
> [Author hat on.]
>=20
> Mirja:
>=20
> Hi!
>=20
>> 2) One clarification question: When a path with a new identifier is
>> advertised this actually does not mean that these two paths are
>> different, right? Some one could advertise the same path twice with
>> different identifiers, right? Should this be explicitly mention
>> somewhere?
>=20
> Right, the two (or more paths) don't have to be different.  I don't =
think
> we need to specifically call the general case out as there is no issue
> related to path selection when that is done.
>=20
> OTOH, we do mention one instance of advertising "the same" path where
> there might be a need to differentiate -- take a look at the last
> paragraph in Section 6.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Alvaro.
>=20


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Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Was also wondering about "bestpath."



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COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


- abstract: use of so many acronyms here is a pity, be good
to expand or not use some of 'em

- intro: "MED attribute" is not mentioned in RFC4271, at
least not obviously enough to find with a grep;-) I had to
search for "multi" to figure out that you meant the
MULTI_EXIT_DISC thing, so maybe point at 5.1.4 in 4271 to
be nice?

- intro: It'd also be nice to provide a reference for the
"almost all of the known" claim for readers who aren't
familiar with such examples. (And I do mean "nice" and not
"necessary":-)



From nobody Wed May  4 05:57:47 2016
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Hi,

There are minor things that could be improved in 
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :

* since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it would be 
better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.

* I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap types 
in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
* the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorporated:

    John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
>     For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
>
>     "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present, then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured encapsulation is assumed."
>
>     With the following:
>
>     "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in order to distinguish between an advertising node that only supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and non-MPLS encapsulations.  An  advertising node that only supports MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation tunnel types;  i.e.,  if the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured encapsulation is assumed."

I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although 
skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of tunnel 
types is removed.

Thanks in advance,

-Thomas


From nobody Wed May  4 06:23:24 2016
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Hi,

There is another point that I missed in this first email.

draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP 
Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM 
traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet Tag 
field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.

This is really different than the approach used for other routes (not 
relying on the generic mechanism in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps), I 
think it would be worth highlighting, by adding something like:

    How the VNI or VSID is encoded in these route is done different
    from the approach used for other routes, because draft-ietf-idr-
    tunnel-encaps does not provide procedures describing how to derive a
    VNI or VSID from a Label in a PMSI Tunnel Attribute.

[ An alternative would be to have draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps provide 
procedures describing how to derive a VNI or VSID from a Label in a PMSI 
Tunnel Attribute and have draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay follow that. I 
understand that the existence of implementation makes this hard to change. ]

-Thomas





2016-05-04, Thomas Morin:
> Hi,
>
> There are minor things that could be improved in
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
>
> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it would be
> better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
>
> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap types
> in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorporated:
>
>     John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
>>     For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
>>
>>     "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present, then
>> the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
>> encapsulation is assumed."
>>
>>     With the following:
>>
>>     "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in order
>> to distinguish between an advertising node that only supports non-MPLS
>> encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and non-MPLS
>> encapsulations.  An  advertising node that only supports MPLS
>> encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation tunnel
>> types;  i.e.,  if the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not
>> present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
>> encapsulation is assumed."
>
> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of tunnel
> types is removed.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> -Thomas
>


From nobody Wed May  4 06:30:27 2016
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To: <idr@ietf.org>, Eric Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
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From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01.txt
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Hi everyone,

The draft has the following piece of text:

    Note that if none of the TLVs specifies the MPLS tunnel type, a Label
    Switched Path SHOULD NOT be used unless none of the TLVs specifies a
    feasible tunnel.

I think the following addition would do a nice job of explaining the 
designers motivation for adding the MPLS tunnel type:

    Hence, the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type allows to distinguish
    between an advertising node that only supports non-MPLS
    encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and non-MPLS encapsulations.

(minor reword from text posted by John Drake on 2015-11-13 for 
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay but that would now belong to 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps)

Best,

-Thomas






> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>   This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.
>
>          Title           : The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
>          Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
>                            Keyur Patel
>                            Gunter Van de Velde
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01.txt
> 	Pages           : 39
> 	Date            : 2015-12-21
>
> Abstract:
>     RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
>     Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
>     of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide the
>     information needed to create the tunnel and the corresponding
>     encapsulation header.  The attribute can also provide information
>     that aids in choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent
>     through a particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is
>     only carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
>     Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document deprecates the
>     Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used), and specifies
>     semantics for the attribute when it is carried in UPDATEs of certain
>     other SAFIs.  This document adds support for additional tunnel types,
>     and allows a remote tunnel endpoint address to be specified for each
>     tunnel.  This document also provides support for specifying fields of
>     any inner or outer encapsulations that may be used by a particular
>     tunnel.
>
>     This document obsoletes RFC 5512.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps/
>
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi everyone,<br>
      <br>
      The draft has the following piece of text:<br>
      <pre class="newpage">   Note that if none of the TLVs specifies the MPLS tunnel type, a Label
   Switched Path SHOULD NOT be used unless none of the TLVs specifies a
   feasible tunnel.</pre>
      I think the following addition would do a nice job of explaining
      the designers motivation for adding the MPLS tunnel type:<br>
      <blockquote>Hence, the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type allows to
        distinguish between an advertising node that only supports
        non-MPLS
        encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and non-MPLS 
        encapsulations.<br>
      </blockquote>
      (minor reword from text posted by John Drake on 2015-11-13 for
      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay but that would now belong to
      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps)<br>
      <br>
      Best,<br>
      <br>
      -Thomas<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:20151221171512.15817.2209.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Gunter Van de Velde
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01.txt
	Pages           : 39
	Date            : 2015-12-21

Abstract:
   RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
   Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
   of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide the
   information needed to create the tunnel and the corresponding
   encapsulation header.  The attribute can also provide information
   that aids in choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent
   through a particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is
   only carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
   Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document deprecates the
   Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used), and specifies
   semantics for the attribute when it is carried in UPDATEs of certain
   other SAFIs.  This document adds support for additional tunnel types,
   and allows a remote tunnel endpoint address to be specified for each
   tunnel.  This document also provides support for specifying fields of
   any inner or outer encapsulations that may be used by a particular
   tunnel.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5512.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps/</a>

There's also a htmlized version available at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01</a>

A diff from the previous version is available at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-01</a>


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a>

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------080404030600020408010902--


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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with COMMENT)
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On 5/4/16, 3:51 AM, "Stephen Farrell" <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

[Author hat on.]

Stephen:

Hi!

Thanks for the review.  I'll address the comments in the next revision.

Alvaro.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>COMMENT:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>- abstract: use of so many acronyms here is a pity, be good
>to expand or not use some of 'em
>
>- intro: "MED attribute" is not mentioned in RFC4271, at
>least not obviously enough to find with a grep;-) I had to
>search for "multi" to figure out that you meant the
>MULTI_EXIT_DISC thing, so maybe point at 5.1.4 in 4271 to
>be nice?
>
>- intro: It'd also be nice to provide a reference for the
>"almost all of the known" claim for readers who aren't
>familiar with such examples. (And I do mean "nice" and not
>"necessary":-)
>
>


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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: EXT Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/8ghu3g1xUlx9WFJgE69lmemY9g8>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Thomas and Jorge,

Snipped, comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> >
> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet Tag
> >field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
>=20
> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the VNI/VS=
ID was encoded in
> the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI should be encoded in the Lab=
el field in all the
> routes. This has to be corrected.
>=20
> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
>=20
> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
>=20
> <snip>
>=20
> Accordingly, and
>    specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
>    label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
>    Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
>    VSID.  For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
>    referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
>    both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
>    bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
>=20
> <snip>


[JD]  For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attrib=
ute.  I think we need to ask everyone whether they
used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI   =20


> >>
> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >>
> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it would
> >> be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
>=20
> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the encaps=
ulation extended
> community. There are a few implementations using this community and it is=
 enough when
> only the encapsulation type is needed.


[JD]   I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC


>=20
> >>
> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
>=20
> [JORGE] I agree.


[JD]  According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the overlay=
 draft so I think we need to keep them=20


>=20
> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorpora=
ted:
> >>
> >>     John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >>>     For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >>>
> >>>     "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >>>
> >>>     With the following:
> >>>
> >>>     "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in order
> >>> to distinguish between an advertising node that only supports
> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and non-MPLS
> >>> encapsulations.  An  advertising node that only supports MPLS
> >>> encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation tunnel
> >>> types;  i.e.,  if the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not
> >>> present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >>
> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of tunnel
> >> types is removed.


[JD]  Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence =20



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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 19:52:41 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Subject: Re: [Idr] =?iso-8859-1?q?Mirja_K=FChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ietf-idr-add-paths-14=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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On 5/3/16, 12:19 PM, "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:

Mirja:

Hi!

>I was think about a case, where two paths are advertised and than maybe
>someones uses those two paths to do some complex multipath routing, while
>at the end this would be unnecessary as both advertised path are
>physically the same. Not sure if that would ever be the case or I=B9m
>making things up.=20

Not really.  In general, for any type of complex multi-path routing we
would probably rely on the IGP information which provides a better picture
of the path inside the network.  BGP only points at the next-hop, which in
this case is the next autonomous system (and not necessarily something
directly connected).

Having said that, BGP does provide an AS-PATH, but that only shows a high
level (logical) view of the path being used.  From that point of view it
would be easy to determine whether the routes would follow the same
path...but not with physical granularity.

>If you tell me that there is no further discussion needed, that=B9s fine
>for me as the doc doesn=B9t really talk at all about any assumptions that
>should be made about the (physical) path that is used.

No assumptions should be made -- the document only changes the
interpretation of the NLRI, not the selection process of the best route.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


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From: Ravi Shekhar <rshekhar@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: EXT Ravi Shekhar <rshekhar@juniper.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 21:25:14 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 21:34:38 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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From: Ravi Shekhar <rshekhar@juniper.net>
To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 21:39:09 +0000
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/pIGfS8rFHR4g74IRjK_ivTGCFSs>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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From nobody Wed May  4 14:50:36 2016
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 21:41:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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--_000_420BA2D8D80A67272B2C290F229940BBB53BCC36D2B5D826mailout_
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Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.

Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they all =
encode the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >



--_000_420BA2D8D80A67272B2C290F229940BBB53BCC36D2B5D826mailout_
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252">
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<body>
<div id=3D"compose" contenteditable=3D"true" aria-label=3D"Message body" st=
yle=3D"padding-left: 16px; padding-right: 16px; padding-bottom: 8px;">
<div>Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself c=
lear. Section 9 needs clean up, yes.<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"acompli_signature">Thanks,<br>
Jorge</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">_____________________________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x-ap=
ple-data-detectors-result=3D"1">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" x-apple-data-detect=
ors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors-re=
sult=3D"3">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" h=
ref=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-da=
ta-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"4">sajassi@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt;,
 Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabada=
n@alcatel-lucent.com" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detector=
s-type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"5">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-l=
ucent.com</a>&gt;, BESS &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org" x-=
apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-=
data-detectors-result=3D"6">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.=
org" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x=
-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"7">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.=
org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com" x-apple-data-detecto=
rs=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors-res=
ult=3D"8">
thomas.morin@orange.com</a> &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@=
orange.com" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"=
link" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"9">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3" x-=
apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-=
data-detectors-result=3D"10">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-ev=
pn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:jorge=
.rabadan@nokia.com" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-=
type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"11">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nok=
ia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@ora=
nge.com" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"lin=
k" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"13">
thomas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org" x-apple-data-det=
ectors=3D"true" x-apple-data-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors=
-result=3D"14">
overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they a=
ll encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" x-apple-data-detectors=3D"true" x-apple-da=
ta-detectors-type=3D"link" x-apple-data-detectors-result=3D"17">jdrake@juni=
per.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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Subject: [Idr] Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Jari Arkko has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for writing this document on this important issue.

I want to recommend its approval as an RFC and will do so 
shortly, but a Gen-ART review from Paul Kyzivat 
inspired me to read the document, and I have 
some comments. I'm not necessarily looking for 
document changes, but I am looking for some responses 
to Paul's or my comments, to make sure we all agree
that we are doing this right.

Specifically,

> A detailed description of how these oscillations can occur
> can be found in [RFC3345]; the description of how a node would
> locally detect such condition is outside the scope of this document.

I am not an expert on this topic, but I'd like to understand the nature
of such detection algorithms. How hard problem is that? What is
required?
I'm not looking for specifying or even referring to the algorithm here,
but
it would be beneficial at least for this reader to understand the nature
of the class of solutions referred to here. Are solutions
algorithmically
computable? Heuristic? Dependent on specific configurations?
Vendor solutions exist but aren't documented.

> When the ADD-PATH Capability is also received from
> the IBGP peer with the "Send/Receive" field set to 1 (receive
> multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple paths) for the same <AFI,
> SAFI>, then the following procedures shall be followed:
> 
> If the peer is a route reflection client, the route reflector SHOULD
> advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
> received from its non-client IBGP peers.  Depending on the
> configuration, the route reflector MAY also advertise to the peer the
> Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from its clients.

I am picking this text excerpt as an example.

Like Paul, some of this language makes me slightly uncomfortable,
and it would be good to understand what the aim is. If the intent
is to describe a procedure that can be followed and fully specified,
the expectations on the text are different from an informative
description of the kinds of things an implementation could do.

In the above text, there's quite a lot of imprecision. That may
be fine, but I wanted to check that this is the case.

For instance, why is a "shall" (and in lowercase) followed by
a set of "SHOULD"s and "MAY"s? Is there any guidance on
when the "SHOULD"s should be followed? There seems to
be thinking behind, could that be documented? What kind
of configuration issues affect the decisions?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The abstract and introduction should explain terms that are not commonly
used (such as MED). BGP is a fine term to use without expansion.



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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "'UTTARO, JAMES'" <ju1738@att.com>, "'John G. Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "'Jakob Heitz \(jheitz\)'" <jheitz@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
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I will add this to the list of adoption calls. 

Sue 
(WG hat on) 

-----Original Message-----
From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 5:29 AM
To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'John G. Scudder'; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Cc: 'idr@ietf.org'
Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence

+1 as a co-author
+1 as an IDR contributor: having the discussions on the IDR mailing 
+list, allows IDR participants to contribute, improve the document, and 
+increase its applicability. (unfortunately, at this point, it seems 
+already a bit late)

Thanks
-- Bruno

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of UTTARO, JAMES
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: 'John G. Scudder'; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
> Cc: 'idr@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
> 
> +1..
> 
> We are using this..
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:38 AM
> To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP persistence
> 
> It's a fair question!
> 
> The last time the WG discussed adopting the item, as I recall there 
> was no consensus to do so. It seems as though we should be able to 
> have the conversation again at this point. As you say, we now have 
> actual experience with it, which hopefully will help inform the 
> discussion. Also, the current form of the document reflects many 
> updates made to address concerns expressed by the WG about previous 
> versions, so even though it wasn't a WG document, the authors were 
> listening and responding to the WG feedback.
> 
> With WG chair hat firmly off my head and contributor-to-the-document 
> hat prominently displayed, let me suggest (or rather, second Jakob's 
> indirect
> suggestion) that we adopt and progress the document.
> 
> Thanks for bringing it up,
> 
> --John
> 
> > On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) 
> > <jheitz@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Why is this
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-persistence-03
> > persistently not an RFC?
> > We have had an implementation for at least a couple of years and 
> > others
> have also.
> >
> > --
> > Jakob Heitz.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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From: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
To: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 12:31:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.

The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.

It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.

Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?

-Thomas


---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----

Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.

Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they all =
encode the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >



___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
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te this message and its attachments.
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<html>
<head>
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252">
</head>
<body>
Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.
<br>
<br>
The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
<br>
<br>
It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
<br>
<br>
Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----<br>
<br>
<div>
<div id=3D"compose" style=3D"padding-left:16px; padding-right:16px; padding=
-bottom:8px">
<div>Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself c=
lear. Section 9 needs clean up, yes.<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"acompli_signature">Thanks,<br>
Jorge</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">_____________________________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.co=
m">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr=
" href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lu=
cent.com</a>&gt;,
 BESS &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;, &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.iet=
f.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.=
com</a> &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.m=
orin@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>=
).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:jorge=
.rabadan@nokia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@ora=
nge.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a dir=3D"ltr" href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ie=
tf.org</a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they a=
ll encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a dir=3D"ltr" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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--_000_SN1PR0501MB17099CA0122BA8B4C3F99E7EC77C0SN1PR0501MB1709_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Thomas,

The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was designed to h=
andle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN=
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.

The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG decided a =
long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be updated to use the=
 mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explici=
tly not in alignment with it.

This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI o=
ut of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay draft should not b=
e tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for m=
ulticast.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: thomas.morin@orange.com [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
To: John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; A=
li Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-en=
cap@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.

The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.

It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.

Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?

-Thomas


---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----
Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I've seen a few implementations running and they all en=
code the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >


___________________________________________________________________________=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The overlay draft preceded the tunnel=
 encaps draft and it was designed to handle a very specific problem, marryi=
ng the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN data plane
 draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally consistent.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The tunnel encaps draft solves a more=
 general problem and the WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draft =
was not going to be updated to use the mechanisms
 it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explicitly not in =
alignment with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This, plus the fact that the tunnel e=
ncaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclusi=
on that the overlay draft should not be tweaked
 to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for multicast.=
 <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> thomas.morin@orange.com [mailt=
o:thomas.morin@orange.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf=
.org; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tu=
nnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for the clarif=
ication on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed sect=
ion 9 needs some tidying up.
<br>
<br>
The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
<br>
<br>
It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
<br>
<br>
Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div id=3D"compose">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree John. Tha=
t's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Section 9 needs clea=
n up, yes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Jorge<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________=
________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Ali Sajas=
si (sajassi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcat=
el-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
 BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-e=
vpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<=
br>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nok=
ia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">tho=
mas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I&#8217;ve seen a few implementations running and th=
ey all encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>
To: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 13:45:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On 5/5/16, 5:55 AM, "Jari Arkko" <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote:

Jari:

Hi!

>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>DISCUSS:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Thank you for writing this document on this important issue.
>
>I want to recommend its approval as an RFC and will do so
>shortly, but a Gen-ART review from Paul Kyzivat
>inspired me to read the document, and I have
>some comments. I'm not necessarily looking for
>document changes, but I am looking for some responses
>to Paul's or my comments, to make sure we all agree
>that we are doing this right.
>
>Specifically,
>
>> A detailed description of how these oscillations can occur
>> can be found in [RFC3345]; the description of how a node would
>> locally detect such condition is outside the scope of this document.
>
>I am not an expert on this topic, but I'd like to understand the nature
>of such detection algorithms. How hard problem is that? What is
>required?
>I'm not looking for specifying or even referring to the algorithm here,
>but
>it would be beneficial at least for this reader to understand the nature
>of the class of solutions referred to here. Are solutions
>algorithmically
>computable? Heuristic? Dependent on specific configurations?
>Vendor solutions exist but aren't documented.

As explained in rfc3345, there are specific conditions when the
oscillation may happen: multi-tier RR/confederation + receiving MED from
more than one peer.  The oscillation itself is not hard to detect (simply
look for routes that constantly change), the confirmation that it is MED
oscillation requires at least realizing that the MED is changing with the
routes.



>
>> When the ADD-PATH Capability is also received from
>> the IBGP peer with the "Send/Receive" field set to 1 (receive
>> multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple paths) for the same <AFI,
>> SAFI>, then the following procedures shall be followed:
>>=20
>> If the peer is a route reflection client, the route reflector SHOULD
>> advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
>> received from its non-client IBGP peers.  Depending on the
>> configuration, the route reflector MAY also advertise to the peer the
>> Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from its clients.
>
>I am picking this text excerpt as an example.
>
>Like Paul, some of this language makes me slightly uncomfortable,
>and it would be good to understand what the aim is. If the intent
>is to describe a procedure that can be followed and fully specified,
>the expectations on the text are different from an informative
>description of the kinds of things an implementation could do.
>
>In the above text, there's quite a lot of imprecision. That may
>be fine, but I wanted to check that this is the case.
>
>For instance, why is a "shall" (and in lowercase) followed by
>a set of "SHOULD"s and "MAY"s? Is there any guidance on
>when the "SHOULD"s should be followed? There seems to
>be thinking behind, could that be documented? What kind
>of configuration issues affect the decisions?

Yes, I see what you mean.  I think that at the time we wrote the text we
were probably thinking in terms of "SHOULD" because this is one of the
options (Group Best Paths vs All the Paths), but within that option we can
be more precise.

We will work on clarifying and get back to you -- I'm traveling, so it
might take a couple of days.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


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From: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
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> We will work on clarifying and get back to you -- I'm traveling, so it
> might take a couple of days.

Thanks.

Jari


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Extensions for Service-Oriented MPLS Path Programming (MPP)
        Authors         : Zhenbin Li
                          Shunwan Zhuang
                          Sujian Lu
	Filename        : draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-03.txt
	Pages           : 14
	Date            : 2016-05-05

Abstract:
   Service-oriented MPLS programming (SoMPP) is to provide customized
   service process based on flexible label combinations.  BGP will play
   an important role for MPLS path programming to download programmed
   MPLS path and map the service path to the transport path.  This
   document defines BGP extensions to support service-oriented MPLS path
   programming.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Hi John,

I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs "not aligned" for unicas=
t.

Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?

-Thomas

---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----

Thomas,

The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was designed to h=
andle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN=
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.

The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG decided a =
long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be updated to use the=
 mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explici=
tly not in alignment with it.

This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI o=
ut of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay draft should not b=
e tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for m=
ulticast.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: thomas.morin@orange.com [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
To: John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; A=
li Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-en=
cap@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.

The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.

It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.

Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?

-Thomas


---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----
Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they all =
encode the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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Hi John, <br>
<br>
I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs &quot;not aligned&quot; =
for unicast.<br>
<br>
Can you be more explicit in where the &quot;misalignment&quot; lies? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----<br>
<br>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Thomas,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The overlay draft preceded the tunn=
el encaps draft and it was designed to handle a very specific problem, marr=
ying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN data
 plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally consis=
tent.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The tunnel encaps draft solves a mo=
re general problem and the WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draf=
t was not going to be updated to use the mechanisms
 it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explicitly not in =
alignment with it.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">This, plus the fact that the tunnel=
 encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclu=
sion that the overlay draft should not be tweaked
 to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for multicast.=
 </span>
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0in 0in 0i=
n 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> thomas.morin@orange.com [mai=
lto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf=
.org; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tu=
nnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for the clarif=
ication on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed sect=
ion 9 needs some tidying up.
<br>
<br>
The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
<br>
<br>
It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
<br>
<br>
Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----</p>
<div>
<div id=3D"compose">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree John. Tha=
t's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Section 9 needs clea=
n up, yes.</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Jorge</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________=
________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Ali Sajas=
si (sajassi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcat=
el-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
 BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-e=
vpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<=
br>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nok=
ia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">tho=
mas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they a=
ll encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
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<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler</pre>
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es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,</pre>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;</pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
/pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.</pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.</pre>
<pre>Thank you.</pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 22:13:04 +0000
Message-ID: <D3511219.1966F7%sajassi@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Hi Thomas,

With respect to tunnel type extended community used in evpn-overlay, we can=
 refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512. However, besides that I don=
=92t see any other point of contention that needs resolving.

We agreed that there needs to be some clarification with respect locally-as=
signed VNI in MPLS field (in EVPN routes versus PTA) for unicast packets ve=
rsus BUM packets.

Is there any other things that need to be clarified?

BTW, thanks for doing a thorough review of the doc.

Cheers,
Ali



From: "thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>" <thomas.mor=
in@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 2:47 PM
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, BESS <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bes=
s@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-iet=
f-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ie=
tf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, Cisco Employee=
 <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US=
)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>>, "draft-ietf-i=
dr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.iet=
f.org>" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Hi John,

I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs "not aligned" for unicas=
t.

Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?

-Thomas

---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----

Thomas,

The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was designed to h=
andle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN=
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.

The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG decided a =
long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be updated to use the=
 mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explici=
tly not in alignment with it.

This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI o=
ut of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay draft should not b=
e tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for m=
ulticast.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> [mailto:thoma=
s.morin@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
To: John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<ma=
ilto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); R=
abadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mail=
to:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.

The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.

It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.

Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?

-Thomas


---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----
Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they all =
encode the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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--_000_D35112191966F7sajassiciscocom_
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Thomas,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With respect to tunnel type extended community used in evpn-overlay, w=
e can refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512. However, besides that I=
 don=92t see any other point of contention that needs resolving.&nbsp;</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We agreed that there needs to be some clarification with respect local=
ly-assigned VNI in MPLS field (in EVPN routes versus PTA) for unicast packe=
ts versus BUM packets.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is there any other things that need to be clarified?&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>BTW, thanks for doing a thorough review of the doc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Ali</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Lucida Grande; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; c=
olor:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-B=
OTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt =
solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:thoma=
s.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 2:47=
 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@i=
etf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">be=
ss@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@t=
ools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-i=
etf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, Cisco Employee &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Rabadan, Jorge =
(Nokia - US)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.rab=
adan@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-=
ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-=
ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.iet=
f.org</a>&gt;, John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrak=
e@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">Hi John, <br>
<br>
I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs &quot;not aligned&quot; =
for unicast.<br>
<br>
Can you be more explicit in where the &quot;misalignment&quot; lies? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----<br>
<br>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thomas,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The overlay draft preceded the tunn=
el encaps draft and it was designed to handle a very specific problem, marr=
ying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The tunnel encaps draft solves a mo=
re general problem and the WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draf=
t was not going to be updated to use
 the mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already exp=
licitly not in alignment with it.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This, plus the fact that the tunnel=
 encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclu=
sion that the overlay draft should not
 be tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for=
 multicast.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0in 0in 0i=
n 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-=
overlay@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rab=
adan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-id=
r-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for the clarif=
ication on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed sect=
ion 9 needs some tidying up.
<br>
<br>
The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
<br>
<br>
It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
<br>
<br>
Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----</p>
<div>
<div id=3D"compose">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree John. Tha=
t's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Section 9 needs clea=
n up, yes.</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Jorge</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________=
________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Ali Sajas=
si (sajassi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcat=
el-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
 BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-e=
vpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<=
br>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nok=
ia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">tho=
mas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they a=
ll encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
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<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
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Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: "thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 22:22:35 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Hi Thomas,

One other thing regarding your earlier question. In EVPN, we decided long t=
ime ago that we=92ll use tunnel type extended community but not the attribu=
te. So, maybe that=92s the =93mis-alignement=94 that John was talking about=
 but that should not be considered as mis-alignment since EVPN solution fro=
m the beginning never needed and rely such attribute - i.e., EVPN precedes =
the tunnel attribute definition.

Cheers,
Ali

From: Cisco Employee <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 3:13 PM
To: "thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>" <thomas.morin=
@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>, IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@=
ietf.org>>, BESS <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-bess-ev=
pn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.or=
g>" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evp=
n-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@no=
kia.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tool=
s.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-=
idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ie=
tf.org>>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps


Hi Thomas,

With respect to tunnel type extended community used in evpn-overlay, we can=
 refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512. However, besides that I don=
=92t see any other point of contention that needs resolving.

We agreed that there needs to be some clarification with respect locally-as=
signed VNI in MPLS field (in EVPN routes versus PTA) for unicast packets ve=
rsus BUM packets.

Is there any other things that need to be clarified?

BTW, thanks for doing a thorough review of the doc.

Cheers,
Ali



From: "thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>" <thomas.mor=
in@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 2:47 PM
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, BESS <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bes=
s@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-iet=
f-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ie=
tf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, Cisco Employee=
 <sajassi@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US=
)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>>, "draft-ietf-i=
dr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.iet=
f.org>" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net>>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Hi John,

I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs "not aligned" for unicas=
t.

Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?

-Thomas

---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----

Thomas,

The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was designed to h=
andle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN=
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.

The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG decided a =
long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be updated to use the=
 mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explici=
tly not in alignment with it.

This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI o=
ut of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay draft should not b=
e tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for m=
ulticast.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From:thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> [mailto:thomas=
.morin@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
To: John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<ma=
ilto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); R=
abadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mail=
to:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.

The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.

It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.

Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?

-Thomas


---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----
Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they all =
encode the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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--_000_D35113FD196727sajassiciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <50563F4DFB95C9429E106D59E37D85F9@emea.cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Thomas,&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One other thing regarding your earlier question. In EVPN, we decided l=
ong time ago that we=92ll use tunnel type extended community but not the at=
tribute. So, maybe that=92s the =93mis-alignement=94 that John was talking =
about but that should not be considered
 as mis-alignment since EVPN solution from the beginning never needed and r=
ely such attribute - i.e., EVPN precedes the tunnel attribute definition.</=
div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Ali&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Lucida Grande; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; c=
olor:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-B=
OTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt =
solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Cisco Employee &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 3:13=
 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.=
morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
homas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;, IDR &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess=
@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft=
-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draf=
t-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools=
.ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-=
ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-=
ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.iet=
f.org</a>&gt;, John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrak=
e@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Thomas,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With respect to tunnel type extended community used in evpn-overlay, w=
e can refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512. However, besides that I=
 don=92t see any other point of contention that needs resolving.&nbsp;</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We agreed that there needs to be some clarification with respect local=
ly-assigned VNI in MPLS field (in EVPN routes versus PTA) for unicast packe=
ts versus BUM packets.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is there any other things that need to be clarified?&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>BTW, thanks for doing a thorough review of the doc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Ali</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Lucida Grande; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; c=
olor:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-B=
OTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt =
solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:thoma=
s.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 2:47=
 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@i=
etf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">be=
ss@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@t=
ools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-i=
etf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, Cisco Employee &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Rabadan, Jorge =
(Nokia - US)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">jorge.rab=
adan@nokia.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-=
ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-=
ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.iet=
f.org</a>&gt;, John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrak=
e@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-=
evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><style>
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">Hi John, <br>
<br>
I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs &quot;not aligned&quot; =
for unicast.<br>
<br>
Can you be more explicit in where the &quot;misalignment&quot; lies? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----<br>
<br>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thomas,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The overlay draft preceded the tunn=
el encaps draft and it was designed to handle a very specific problem, marr=
ying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The tunnel encaps draft solves a mo=
re general problem and the WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draf=
t was not going to be updated to use
 the mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already exp=
licitly not in alignment with it.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This, plus the fact that the tunnel=
 encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclu=
sion that the overlay draft should not
 be tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for=
 multicast.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Yours Irrespectively,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid blue 1.5pt; padding:0in 0in 0i=
n 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas=
.morin@orange.com</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:th=
omas.morin@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-=
overlay@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rab=
adan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-id=
r-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for the clarif=
ication on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed sect=
ion 9 needs some tidying up.
<br>
<br>
The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
<br>
<br>
It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
<br>
<br>
Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----</p>
<div>
<div id=3D"compose">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree John. Tha=
t's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Section 9 needs clea=
n up, yes.</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Jorge</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________=
________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Ali Sajas=
si (sajassi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcat=
el-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
 BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-e=
vpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<=
br>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nok=
ia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">tho=
mas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I=92ve seen a few implementations running and they a=
ll encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
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<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Thomas,

My apologies, I mis-stated the sequence of events.

When the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did not carry forward t=
he RFC 5512 extended community and it did not propose to obsolete RFC 5512.=
  There was discussion of using the attribute defined in the tunnel encaps =
draft instead of the extended community and we decided to continue to use t=
he extended community.  So, in that sense we are misaligned with the tunnel=
 encaps draft.

Subsequently, however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to carry forward the=
 extended community and to obsolete RFC 5512, so we were effectively covere=
d by a grandfather clause.

However, even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the tunnel encaps draft=
 instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue with doing this, viz, the overlay dra=
ft makes a normative reference to RFC 5512.  If we change the normative ref=
erence to the tunnel encaps draft we cannot publish the overlay draft until=
 after the tunnel encaps draft has been published.

Given the overlay draft's tardiness, I don't think that's acceptable and wo=
uld prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: thomas.morin@orange.com [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM
To: IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Ali Sajassi (sa=
jassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf=
.org; John E Drake
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Hi John,

I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs "not aligned" for unicas=
t.

Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?

-Thomas

---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----
Thomas,

The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was designed to h=
andle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN=
 data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally c=
onsistent.

The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG decided a =
long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be updated to use the=
 mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explici=
tly not in alignment with it.

This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI o=
ut of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay draft should not b=
e tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for m=
ulticast.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> [mailto:thoma=
s.morin@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
To: John E Drake; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org<ma=
ilto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); R=
abadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<mail=
to:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps

Thanks for the clarification on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-over=
lay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying up.

The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.

It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.

Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?

-Thomas


---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----
Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.=
 Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
Thanks,
Jorge

_____________________________
From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps
To: IDR <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <sajassi=
@cisco.com<mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.r=
abadan@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <=
bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.i=
etf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - thomas.=
morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> <thomas.morin@orange.com<m=
ailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>


Jorge,

We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).

You're right that we need to clean up section 9.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com<mailto:thomas.morin@orang=
e.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> overlay@tools.ietf.org<mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi (sajas=
si)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel=
-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> About this:
>
> [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attri=
bute. I think we need
> to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute =
to carry the VNI
>
>
> In case it helps, I've seen a few implementations running and they all en=
code the VNI in the
> MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in the =
ethernet-tag, in
> addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 con=
tradicts section 5.1.3
> and should be clarified.
>
> "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> <snip>
> the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and *=
*Inclusive
> Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>
> Thanks.
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net>> wrote:
>
> >Thomas and Jorge,
> >
> >Snipped, comments inline.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> >
> >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has to be=
 corrected.
> >>
> >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> >>
> >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Accordingly, and
> >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >
> >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI attr=
ibute. I think we
> need to ask everyone whether they
> >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> >> >>
> >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation type=
 is needed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> >>
> >> [JORGE] I agree.
> >
> >
> >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet incorp=
orated:
> >> >>
> >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> With the following:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> >
> >
> >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> >
> >

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">My apologies, I mis-stated the sequen=
ce of events.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When the tunnel encaps draft was firs=
t published it did not carry forward the RFC 5512 extended community and it=
 did not propose to obsolete RFC 5512.&nbsp; There
 was discussion of using the attribute defined in the tunnel encaps draft i=
nstead of the extended community and we decided to continue to use the exte=
nded community.&nbsp; So, in that sense we are misaligned with the tunnel e=
ncaps draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Subsequently, however, the tunnel enc=
aps draft decided to carry forward the extended community and to obsolete R=
FC 5512, so we were effectively covered by a grandfather
 clause.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">However, even though I agreed yesterd=
ay to refer to the tunnel encaps draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue=
 with doing this, viz, the overlay draft makes
 a normative reference to RFC 5512.&nbsp; If we change the normative refere=
nce to the tunnel encaps draft we cannot publish the overlay draft until af=
ter the tunnel encaps draft has been published.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given the overlay draft&#8217;s tardi=
ness, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s acceptable and would prefer to conti=
nue to refer to RFC 5512.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> thomas.morin@orange.com [mailt=
o:thomas.morin@orange.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Ali Saja=
ssi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@too=
ls.ietf.org; John E Drake<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi John, <br>
<br>
I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were fine wit=
h having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, wi=
th the fact that you consider (belox) the two docs &quot;not aligned&quot; =
for unicast.<br>
<br>
Can you be more explicit in where the &quot;misalignment&quot; lies? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
---- John E Drake a =E9crit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The overlay draft preceded the tunnel=
 encaps draft and it was designed to handle a very specific problem, marryi=
ng the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN data plane
 draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it is internally consistent.<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The tunnel encaps draft solves a more=
 general problem and the WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draft =
was not going to be updated to use the mechanisms
 it details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already explicitly not in =
alignment with it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This, plus the fact that the tunnel e=
ncaps draft explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclusi=
on that the overlay draft should not be tweaked
 to be in alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for multicast.=
 </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-=
overlay@tools.ietf.org">
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rab=
adan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-id=
r-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for the clarif=
ication on the intent around draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed sect=
ion 9 needs some tidying up.
<br>
<br>
The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to explain h=
ow to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a=
 way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
<br>
<br>
It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place, bu=
t that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
<br>
<br>
Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
<br>
-Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a =E9crit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div id=3D"compose">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree John. Tha=
t's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Section 9 needs clea=
n up, yes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Jorge<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________=
________<br>
From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps<br>
To: IDR &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Ali Sajas=
si (sajassi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcat=
el-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;,
 BESS &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-e=
vpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;, EXT -
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<=
br>
<br>
<br>
Jorge,<br>
<br>
We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for all =
service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following the r=
ules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
<br>
You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
<br>
Yours Irrespectively,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a href=3D"mailto:jorge.rabadan@nok=
ia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
&gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a href=3D"mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">tho=
mas.morin@orange.com</a>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; =
Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tun=
nel-encaps<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; About this:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI at=
tribute. I think we need<br>
&gt; to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribu=
te to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In case it helps, I&#8217;ve seen a few implementations running and th=
ey all encode the VNI in the<br>
&gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in t=
he ethernet-tag, in<br>
&gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 9 =
contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
&gt; and should be clarified.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d **Inclusive<br>
&gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID.&quot=
;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Jorge<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, &quot;EXT John E Drake&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;John<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on th=
e BGP<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use =
for BUM<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on th=
e Ethernet<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version wher=
e the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. =
The VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This =
has to be corrected.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, =
the MPLS<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, an=
d<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the =
VNI or<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used=
 for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the ent=
ire 24-<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMS=
I attribute. I think we<br>
&gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
&gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that could be improved in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate =
RFC5512, it<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay re=
fers to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5=
512.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keep=
s the<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementat=
ions<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is enough when only the encapsula=
tion type is needed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit l=
ist of encap<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the=
<br>
&gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep them<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor modification was proposed, but=
 not yet incorporated:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft, replace this text in sect=
ion 5.1.3:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;If the BGP Encapsulation extended communit=
y is not present,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statica=
lly configured<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel ty=
pe is needed in<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish between an advertising node=
 that only<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that su=
pports MPLS and<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node tha=
t only supports<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise an=
y encapsulation<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation ext=
ended community<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation o=
r a statically<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured encapsulation is assumed.&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is useful and should be incorpor=
ated, although<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full=
 list of<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_SN1PR0501MB170976E947BEABC8FD591ED8C77C0SN1PR0501MB1709_--


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Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 17:37:21 -0600
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To: Ajay L <ajayl.bro@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior
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Hi Ajay,

> On 29 Apr, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Ajay L <ajayl.bro@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> The section on NOTIFICATION message says that BGP connection is closed =
immediately after sending it. So in my scenario, looks like the expected =
behavior is to send NOTIFICATION message with details of the first =
detected missing mandatory attribute and close the connection. Please =
let me know if this interpretation is not correct


An implementation is not expected to send more than one NOTIFICATION =
message upon encountering an erroneous UPDATE message. Once an error has =
been encountered, and NOTIFICATION has been transmitted; the sending BGP =
speaker is expected to close the connection.=20

It is worth noting that the error handling behaviour of when =
NOTIFICATION messages are transmitted was modified by RFC7606. Section 3 =
of RFC7606 addresses the case of missing well known mandatory fields:

   d.  If any of the well-known mandatory attributes are not present in
       an UPDATE message, then "treat-as-withdraw" MUST be used.  (Note
       that [RFC4760 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4760>] reclassifies =
NEXT_HOP as what is effectively
       discretionary.)

i.e., where a speaker is compliant with RFC7606, then NOTIFICATION =
should not be sent in this scenario.

Kind regards,
r.=

--Apple-Mail=_DF117CF9-0CFC-46B2-BFDE-E228FAF3D683
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Ajay,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 29 Apr, 2016, at 2:08 PM, =
Ajay L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ajayl.bro@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">ajayl.bro@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">The section on&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D"">NOTIFICATION&nbsp;</span>message =
says that BGP connection is closed immediately after sending it. So in =
my scenario, looks like the expected behavior is to send NOTIFICATION =
message with details of the first detected missing mandatory attribute =
and close the connection. Please let me know if this interpretation is =
not correct</div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div>An implementation is not expected to send =
more than one NOTIFICATION message upon encountering an erroneous UPDATE =
message. Once an error has been encountered, and NOTIFICATION has been =
transmitted; the sending BGP speaker is expected to close the =
connection.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>It is worth noting =
that the error handling behaviour of when NOTIFICATION messages are =
transmitted was modified by RFC7606. Section 3 of RFC7606 addresses the =
case of missing well known mandatory fields:</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: =
13.3333px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; =
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
line-height: normal; widows: 1;">   d.  If any of the well-known =
mandatory attributes are not present in
       an UPDATE message, then "treat-as-withdraw" MUST be used.  (Note
       that [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4760" =
title=3D"&quot;Multiprotocol Extensions for BGP-4&quot;" =
class=3D"">RFC4760</a>] reclassifies NEXT_HOP as what is effectively
       discretionary.)</pre><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">i.e., where a speaker is compliant with RFC7606, then =
NOTIFICATION should not be sent in this scenario.</div><div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Kind regards,</div><div =
class=3D"">r.</div></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Thu May  5 16:44:06 2016
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Status of BGP OPERATIONAL Message
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Hi Marco,

> On 5 Apr, 2016, at 5:58 AM, marco@lamehost.it wrote:
>=20
> I have read the threads regarding draft-frs-bgp-operational-message =
and i wonder if there are actual plans for deploying the it or not.
>=20
> The reason I am asking is that I see value in a mechanism that =
advertises the value of MAXPREFIX to the BGP peer which the above can =
handle with the ADVISE TLVs.
>=20
> My feeling is that BGP OPERATIONAL Message goes behind the scope and =
transforms BGP in a general-purpose network messaging queue, but if =
there are plans to implement that I would prefer to wait than to suggest =
to re-invent the wheel.

At the time, there was some interest in implementing this mechanism, and =
I believe that it was implemented in Quagga (or at least a patch =
exists). Our intention with this draft was to introduce a message type =
that allowed for information that related to the state of a session, not =
necessarily to a set of NLRI to be advertised across a BGP session. =
Robert, David and I have discussed resuscitating this draft, and if you =
have a use-case that would fit into it, we could definitely try and =
include that.

If you were to be advertising the value of a maximum prefix using an =
alternate mechanism, how would this be carried? It seems strange to do =
it in an OPEN message, since the value may change throughout the =
lifetime of the session, and including it in an UPDATE message would =
also be somewhat strange because it is not clear that it would be linked =
to any particular NLRI. We have rather overloaded the semantics of an =
UPDATE message with null NLRI already, so I=E2=80=99m not clear there =
would be a neat way that you could transmit this information in a way =
that did not end up declaring something that looked like the OPERATIONAL =
message and subsequent NLRIs.

Best,
r.=


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To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "marco@lamehost.it" <marco@lamehost.it>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Status of BGP OPERATIONAL Message
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From nobody Fri May  6 03:45:23 2016
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Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 12:45:16 +0200
From: Marco Marzetti <marco@lamehost.it>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Status of BGP OPERATIONAL Message
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On 2016-05-06 01:44, Rob Shakir wrote:
> Hi Marco,
> 
>> On 5 Apr, 2016, at 5:58 AM, marco@lamehost.it wrote:
>> 
>> I have read the threads regarding draft-frs-bgp-operational-message 
>> and i wonder if there are actual plans for deploying the it or not.
>> 
>> The reason I am asking is that I see value in a mechanism that 
>> advertises the value of MAXPREFIX to the BGP peer which the above can 
>> handle with the ADVISE TLVs.
>> 
>> My feeling is that BGP OPERATIONAL Message goes behind the scope and 
>> transforms BGP in a general-purpose network messaging queue, but if 
>> there are plans to implement that I would prefer to wait than to 
>> suggest to re-invent the wheel.
> 
> At the time, there was some interest in implementing this mechanism,
> and I believe that it was implemented in Quagga (or at least a patch
> exists). Our intention with this draft was to introduce a message type
> that allowed for information that related to the state of a session,
> not necessarily to a set of NLRI to be advertised across a BGP
> session. Robert, David and I have discussed resuscitating this draft,
> and if you have a use-case that would fit into it, we could definitely
> try and include that.
> 

Hello Rob,

I have three cases in my mind:
1) Standard peering (not customer) relationship between two ASes.
    The value of MAXPREFIX is usually exchanged by email (or if it is 
very urgent by IRC or phone call) between the NOCs or the peering 
departments.

2) MPLS-VPN:
  This is a more interesting scenario because of the strict SLAs and the 
fact that MAXPREFIX (at least in some cases) is a commercial value
  a) NNI: Same as of #1
  b) UNI: Even if triggered by the customer that sends more than allowed, 
a down is always perceived as a symptom of bad service.

3) Flowspec:
  My feeling is that the market will adapt to a discrete number of rules 
per port or per customer.
  Triggering MAXPREFIX in this case may be catastrophic because it will 
remove all the active "rules" until the protection is cleared.

For all of the above transmitting the value of MAXPREFIX would improve 
the quality of the service because:
  1) The peer could check the values of the sent/allowed prefixes before 
sending more.
  2) The router could raise an alarm for the advertised prefixes as it 
does for the received

> If you were to be advertising the value of a maximum prefix using an
> alternate mechanism, how would this be carried? It seems strange to do
> it in an OPEN message, since the value may change throughout the
> lifetime of the session, and including it in an UPDATE message would
> also be somewhat strange because it is not clear that it would be
> linked to any particular NLRI. We have rather overloaded the semantics
> of an UPDATE message with null NLRI already, so I’m not clear there
> would be a neat way that you could transmit this information in a way
> that did not end up declaring something that looked like the
> OPERATIONAL message and subsequent NLRIs.
> 
> Best,
> r.

I agree that you can't send MAXPREFIX within OPEN.

I like the idea to make of use RFC5291 (Outbound Route Filtering 
Capability for BGP-4) by defining a new ORF Type as suggested in 
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-keyur-prefixlimit-orf-00.txt , but i'd 
retain all the behaviors described in RFC5291 except for "Action" that 
i'd implement as follows:
  DENY: Prevent the router from advertising more prefixes when the amount 
of advertised-prefixes is equal to MAXPREFIX
  PERMIT: Do nothing (the advertised value is purely informational)

Regards

-- 
Marco


From nobody Mon May  9 06:22:39 2016
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Route Target Constrained Distribution of Routes with no Route Targets
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Jeffrey Haas
                          Robert Raszuk
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-05.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2016-05-09

Abstract:
   There are a variety of BGP-enabled services in which the originator
   of a BGP route may attach one or more "Route Targets" to the route.
   By means of a procedure known as "RT Constrained Distribution" (RTC),
   a given BGP speaker (call it "B") can announce the set of RTs in
   which it has interest.  The implication is that if a particular route
   (call it "R") carries any RTs at all, BGP speaker B wants to receive
   route R if and only if B has announced interest in one of the RTs
   carried by R.  However, if route R does not carry any RTs at all,
   prior specifications do not make it clear whether B's use of RTC
   implies that it does not want to receive route R.  This has caused
   interoperability problems in the field, as some implementations of
   RTC do not allow B to receive R, but some services presuppose that B
   will receive R.  This document updates RFC 4684 by clarifying the
   effect of the RTC mechanism on routes that do not have any RTs.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Cc: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Subject: [Idr] adoption of five flowspec drafts [was: Re: WG Adoption call for drafts for Flow Specification option 1 (RFC5575 additions (filters/actions) 3/25 to 4/8/2016 ]
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--Apple-Mail=_4DE514E2-4A92-45C9-AC32-FBBE915D246B
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Dear WG,

The following drafts are accepted as WG documents:

draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-rate
draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3
draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label
draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interface-set
draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-match

The authors should resubmit as draft-ietf-idr-XXX. =
(draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label resubmit as =
draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-label, for consistency.)

Authors (and the WG) should note that we're also still discussing the =
issues of how to best address ordering and action conflict issues. We =
think it's likely we'll have a 5575bis coming along, and possibly a v2 =
as well, and related documents (all of the above) will probably need to =
be updated to fit into whatever framework we end up with. Just FYI for =
the moment.

Thanks,

--John and Sue

> On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
>=20
> IDR WG:=20
> =20
> This begins a 2 week WG Call (3/25 to 4/8/2016) for the set of drafts =
to be considered in RFC5575 additions. These options are filters, =
actions or critical security additions.  The flow specification work has =
been a part of the interims since IETF 94
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceedings.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceedings.html>=

> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceedings.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceedings.html>=

> =20
> There will be a brief flow specification presentation at IETF 95, and =
the email list has select to start with option 1 =E2=80=93 extending =
RFC5575.  We also will be gathering details on the SDN/NFV use case for =
option 2 (new NLRI and Wide Communities support).=20
> =20
> This is a group call for the drafts to be considered in the flow =
specification work.  For each of the drafts you wish to be considered =
Option 1, please indicate:=20
> =20
> 1)      If this option is valuable for the DDoS deployments or another =
critical deployments, =20
> 2)      Do you feel this draft is useful, but not ready for adoption,=20=

> 3)      Do you feel this draft is a good start for this work.=20
> =20
> The drafts to consider are:=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-rate/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-rate/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/>
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel/>=

> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalize=
d-sid/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generaliz=
ed-sid/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label/>
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset=
/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfacese=
t/>
>  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generaliz=
ed-sid/>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-pat=
h-redirect/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redir=
ect/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-match/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-match/>
> =20
> And for the ordering of these filters and actions drafts =E2=80=93 the =
Option 1 section out of this=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo/>
> (A revised draft with just Option 1 will be posted)=20
> =20
> Sue Hares and John Scudder=20


--Apple-Mail=_4DE514E2-4A92-45C9-AC32-FBBE915D246B
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Dear WG,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The following drafts =
are accepted as WG documents:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-rate<br =
class=3D"">draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3<br =
class=3D"">draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label<br =
class=3D"">draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interface-set<br =
class=3D"">draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-match<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The authors should resubmit as draft-ietf-idr-XXX. =
(draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label resubmit as =
draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-label, for consistency.)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Authors (and the WG) should note that we're also still =
discussing the issues of how to best address ordering and action =
conflict issues. We think it's likely we'll have a 5575bis coming along, =
and possibly a v2 as well, and related documents (all of the above) will =
probably need to be updated to fit into whatever framework we end up =
with. Just FYI for the moment.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">--John and Sue<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Mar 25, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" class=3D"">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IDR WG:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">This =
begins a 2 week WG Call (3/25 to 4/8/2016) for the set of drafts to be =
considered in RFC5575 additions. These options are filters, actions or =
critical security additions. &nbsp;The flow specification work has been =
a part of the interims since IETF 94<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceeding=
s.html" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceed=
ings.html</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceeding=
s.html" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceed=
ings.html</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">There will be a brief flow specification presentation at IETF =
95, and the email list has select to start with option 1 =E2=80=93 =
extending RFC5575.&nbsp; We also will be gathering details on the =
SDN/NFV use case for option 2 (new NLRI and Wide Communities =
support).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">This is a =
group call for the drafts to be considered in the flow specification =
work.&nbsp; For each of the drafts you wish to be considered Option 1, =
please indicate:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: =
-0.25in;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">1)<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span>If this =
option is valuable for the DDoS deployments or another critical =
deployments, &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">2)<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span>Do you feel =
this draft is useful, but not ready for adoption,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: =
-0.25in;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">3)<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span>Do you feel =
this draft is a good start for this work.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The =
drafts to consider are:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-ra=
te/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet=
-rate/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/</=
a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-t=
unnel/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirec=
t-tunnel/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-ge=
neralized-sid/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect=
-generalized-sid/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-labe=
l/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-l=
abel/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-inte=
rfaceset/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-i=
nterfaceset/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-ge=
neralized-sid/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""></a><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-pat=
h-redirect/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-=
path-redirect/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-matc=
h/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-m=
atch/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">And for the ordering of these filters and actions drafts =E2=80=
=93 the Option 1 section out of this<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo=
/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">(A =
revised draft with just Option 1 will be posted)<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Sue Hares =
and John Scudder<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Cc: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Subject: [Idr] flowspec tunnel/path/sid drafts next steps [was: Re: WG Adoption call for drafts for Flow Specification option 1 (RFC5575 additions (filters/actions) 3/25 to 4/8/2016 ]
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Dear WG,
=20
The WG has demonstrated interest in the subject area addressed by these =
drafts:
=20
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect
draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid
draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel
=20
Furthermore, there's clear consensus that the WG should select only one =
approach to proceed forward with.=20
=20
Although during the WG adoption call there was some substantive =
discussion of the differences in approach between the three drafts, the =
chairs were not convinced that it was sufficient to allow us to =
conclude. For this reason, we're asking the respective authors to =
prepare short presentations outlining key differences only for =
discussion at our upcoming interim on May 16. These will be recorded and =
distributed by May 14th, so that the interim time itself can be used for =
Q/A/discussion only (and not for presenting slides).=20
=20
Please also use the mailing list for discussion, there is no requirement =
to wait until the interim time slot. This will be our only topic for the =
May 16 interim. (If we get enough engagement on the mailing list =
beforehand, we might even be able to cancel the interim.)

We especially encourage review and comment by WG members who haven't =
contributed yet.
=20
After the interim, the chairs will make a decision about which draft to =
move forward with as a good starting point for WG work.=20
=20
Thanks, and thanks in advance for your efforts over the next week or so.
=20
Regards,
=20
--John and Sue

> On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
>=20
> IDR WG:=20
> =20
> This begins a 2 week WG Call (3/25 to 4/8/2016) for the set of drafts =
to be considered in RFC5575 additions. These options are filters, =
actions or critical security additions.  The flow specification work has =
been a part of the interims since IETF 94
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceedings.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceedings.html>=

> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceedings.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceedings.html>=

> =20
> There will be a brief flow specification presentation at IETF 95, and =
the email list has select to start with option 1 =E2=80=93 extending =
RFC5575.  We also will be gathering details on the SDN/NFV use case for =
option 2 (new NLRI and Wide Communities support).=20
> =20
> This is a group call for the drafts to be considered in the flow =
specification work.  For each of the drafts you wish to be considered =
Option 1, please indicate:=20
> =20
> 1)      If this option is valuable for the DDoS deployments or another =
critical deployments, =20
> 2)      Do you feel this draft is useful, but not ready for adoption,=20=

> 3)      Do you feel this draft is a good start for this work.=20
> =20
> The drafts to consider are:=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-rate/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-rate/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/>
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel/>=

> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalize=
d-sid/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generaliz=
ed-sid/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-label/>
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfaceset=
/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-interfacese=
t/>
>  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generaliz=
ed-sid/>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-pat=
h-redirect/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redir=
ect/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-match/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-match/>
> =20
> And for the ordering of these filters and actions drafts =E2=80=93 the =
Option 1 section out of this=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo/>
> (A revised draft with just Option 1 will be posted)=20
> =20
> Sue Hares and John Scudder=20


--Apple-Mail=_FBDB0706-3AAE-4342-9210-58AC5917B83C
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Dear WG,<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">The WG has =
demonstrated interest in the subject area addressed by these drafts:<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect<br =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid<br =
class=3D"">draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-tunnel<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">Furthermore, there's clear consensus that the WG should =
select only one approach to proceed forward with.&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Although during the WG adoption call =
there was some substantive discussion of the differences in approach =
between the three drafts, the&nbsp;chairs were not convinced that it was =
sufficient to allow us to conclude. For this reason, we're asking the =
respective authors to prepare short&nbsp;presentations outlining key =
differences only for discussion at our upcoming interim on May 16. These =
will be recorded and distributed by&nbsp;May 14th, so that the interim =
time itself can be used for Q/A/discussion only (and not for presenting =
slides).&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Please also use the =
mailing list for discussion, there is no requirement to wait until the =
interim time slot. This will be our only topic for the&nbsp;May 16 =
interim. (If we get enough engagement on the mailing list beforehand, we =
might even be able to cancel the interim.)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">We=
 especially encourage review and comment by WG members who haven't =
contributed yet.<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">After the interim, =
the chairs will make a decision about which draft to move forward with =
as a good starting point for WG work.&nbsp;<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">Thanks, and thanks in advance for your efforts over the next =
week or so.<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Regards,<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D"">--John and Sue<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Mar 25, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" class=3D"">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IDR WG:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">This =
begins a 2 week WG Call (3/25 to 4/8/2016) for the set of drafts to be =
considered in RFC5575 additions. These options are filters, actions or =
critical security additions. &nbsp;The flow specification work has been =
a part of the interims since IETF 94<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceeding=
s.html" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/08/idr/proceed=
ings.html</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceeding=
s.html" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/03/07/idr/proceed=
ings.html</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">There will be a brief flow specification presentation at IETF =
95, and the email list has select to start with option 1 =E2=80=93 =
extending RFC5575.&nbsp; We also will be gathering details on the =
SDN/NFV use case for option 2 (new NLRI and Wide Communities =
support).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">This is a =
group call for the drafts to be considered in the flow specification =
work.&nbsp; For each of the drafts you wish to be considered Option 1, =
please indicate:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: =
-0.25in;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">1)<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span>If this =
option is valuable for the DDoS deployments or another critical =
deployments, &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">2)<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span>Do you feel =
this draft is useful, but not ready for adoption,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: =
-0.25in;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">3)<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span>Do you feel =
this draft is a good start for this work.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The =
drafts to consider are:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet-ra=
te/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-idr-flowspec-packet=
-rate/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-nvo3/</=
a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirect-t=
unnel/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-redirec=
t-tunnel/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-ge=
neralized-sid/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect=
-generalized-sid/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-labe=
l/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liang-idr-bgp-flowspec-l=
abel/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-inte=
rfaceset/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-litkowski-idr-flowspec-i=
nterfaceset/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-ge=
neralized-sid/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""></a><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-pat=
h-redirect/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-=
path-redirect/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-matc=
h/" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yong-idr-flowspec-mpls-m=
atch/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">And for the ordering of these filters and actions drafts =E2=80=
=93 the Option 1 section out of this<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-idr-flowspec-combo=
/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">(A =
revised draft with just Option 1 will be posted)<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Sue Hares =
and John Scudder<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_FBDB0706-3AAE-4342-9210-58AC5917B83C--


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Cc: Inter-Domain Routing Discussion List <idr@ietf.org>, Kevin Vachon <kevin@mef.net>, BGP Enabled ServiceS Discussion List <bess@ietf.org>, rraghu@ciena.com, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Subject: [Idr] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison from MEF on IP Service Attributes"
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Title: Liaison from MEF on IP Service Attributes
Submission Date: 2016-05-06
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1473/

From: "MEF Liaison" <liaisons@mef.net>
To: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>,Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>,John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
Cc: Kevin Vachon <kevin@mef.net>,Lucy Yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>,Alvaro Retana <aretana@cisco.com>,Deborah Brungard <db3546@att.com>,Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>,BGP Enabled ServiceS Discussion List <bess@ietf.org>,Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>,Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>,Inter-Domain Routing Discussion List <idr@ietf.org>,Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>,John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>,Raghu Ranganathan <rraghu@ciena.com>
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    IP Services Liaison to IETF IDR and BESS WGs
    https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2016-05-06-mef-idr-bess-liaison-from-mef-on-ip-service-attributes-attachment-1.pdf


From nobody Tue May 10 11:06:04 2016
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From: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, Ajay L <ajayl.bro@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior
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Where is "well-known" defined?
or well-known mandatory attributes?



01100101000010|10011010111101?
Hint 7 bit ascii
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com



From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Rob Shakir [rjs@rob.sh]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:37 PM
To: Ajay L
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior


Hi Ajay,


On 29 Apr, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Ajay L <ajayl.bro@gmail.com> wrote:


The section on NOTIFICATION message says that BGP connection is closed imme=
diately after sending it. So in my scenario, looks like the expected behavi=
or is to send NOTIFICATION message with details of the first detected missi=
ng mandatory attribute and close the connection. Please let me know if this=
 interpretation is not correct


An implementation is not expected to send more than one NOTIFICATION messag=
e upon encountering an erroneous UPDATE message. Once an error has been enc=
ountered, and NOTIFICATION has been transmitted; the sending BGP speaker is=
 expected to close the connection.


It is worth noting that the error handling behaviour of when NOTIFICATION m=
essages are transmitted was modified by RFC7606. Section 3 of RFC7606 addre=
sses the case of missing well known mandatory fields:


   d.  If any of the well-known mandatory attributes are not present in
       an UPDATE message, then "treat-as-withdraw" MUST be used.  (Note
       that [RFC4760] reclassifies NEXT_HOP as what is effectively
       discretionary.)


i.e., where a speaker is compliant with RFC7606, then NOTIFICATION should n=
ot be sent in this scenario.


Kind regards,
r.
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
ial or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is st=
rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communicat=
ion in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and dest=
roy all copies of the communication and any attachments.


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Subject: Re: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior
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> On 10 May, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Smith, Donald =
<Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com> wrote:
>=20
> Where is "well-known" defined?
> or well-known mandatory attributes?


I=E2=80=99n not sure whether this is a serious question: =E2=80=9Cwell-kno=
wn" is defined based bit 0 of the Attribute Flags field. As per RFC4271.

Mandatory is defined in the same document Section 5.

Kind regards,
r.




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From: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior
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It was serious. Sorry I googled for it and IETF and couldn't find it.
Thank you for the explanation. I don't know BGP bits by heart I usually hav=
e to look them up.


01100101000010|10011010111101?
Hint 7 bit ascii
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com

________________________________________
From: Rob Shakir [rjs@rob.sh]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 12:10 PM
To: Smith, Donald
Cc: Ajay L; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Question about BGP mandatory attribute missing behavior

> On 10 May, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com=
> wrote:
>
> Where is "well-known" defined?
> or well-known mandatory attributes?


I=92n not sure whether this is a serious question: =93well-known" is define=
d based bit 0 of the Attribute Flags field. As per RFC4271.

Mandatory is defined in the same document Section 5.

Kind regards,
r.
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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From nobody Wed May 11 07:27:17 2016
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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Kathleen,

On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 10:58:01AM -0700, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> 1. I'd like to see the security considerations explicitly state that this
> could result in a denial of service attack.  The resource consumption is
> stated nicely, but it would be good (following RFC3552) to state the type
> of attack.
> 
>   "This document defines a BGP extension that allows the advertisement
>    of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new paths
>    implicitly replacing any previous ones.  As a result, multiple paths
>    for a large number of prefixes may be received by a BGP speaker
>    potentially depleting memory resources or even causing network-wide
>    instability."
> 
> Adding something like: "This could result in a denial of service
> attack."

The considerations of a BGP peer's normal protocol interactions with a BGP
speaker - with or without add-paths - being considered a Denial of Service
seems to be unnecessary scare words.

While the add-paths case does permit a much larger number of paths to be
propagated, the same issue may apply to simply sending along a much larger
amount of some routing table than expected.  This could include sending a
full Internet routing table to a router scaled for a few thousands of
routes.

I recommend against this change.

> 2. Change the last sentence of the security considerations section in
> light of the first paragraph to something like:
> 
> From:
>    This document introduces no new security concerns in the base
>    operation of BGP [RFC4271].
> 
> To:
>   Security concerns in the base operation of BGP [RFC4271] also apply.

I think this covers it nicely.

-- jeff


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Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response.  Inline.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> Kathleen,
>
> On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 10:58:01AM -0700, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>> 1. I'd like to see the security considerations explicitly state that this
>> could result in a denial of service attack.  The resource consumption is
>> stated nicely, but it would be good (following RFC3552) to state the type
>> of attack.
>>
>>   "This document defines a BGP extension that allows the advertisement
>>    of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new paths
>>    implicitly replacing any previous ones.  As a result, multiple paths
>>    for a large number of prefixes may be received by a BGP speaker
>>    potentially depleting memory resources or even causing network-wide
>>    instability."
>>
>> Adding something like: "This could result in a denial of service
>> attack."
>
> The considerations of a BGP peer's normal protocol interactions with a BGP
> speaker - with or without add-paths - being considered a Denial of Service
> seems to be unnecessary scare words.
>
> While the add-paths case does permit a much larger number of paths to be
> propagated, the same issue may apply to simply sending along a much larger
> amount of some routing table than expected.  This could include sending a
> full Internet routing table to a router scaled for a few thousands of
> routes.
>
> I recommend against this change.

This is just a comment, so it's up to the shepherd and AD, but adding
this would be in line with the guidance from RFC3552.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3552

Thanks,
Kathleen

>
>> 2. Change the last sentence of the security considerations section in
>> light of the first paragraph to something like:
>>
>> From:
>>    This document introduces no new security concerns in the base
>>    operation of BGP [RFC4271].
>>
>> To:
>>   Security concerns in the base operation of BGP [RFC4271] also apply.
>
> I think this covers it nicely.
>
> -- jeff



-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen


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On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:38:21AM -0400, John G. Scudder wrote:
> With WG chair hat firmly off my head and contributor-to-the-document hat prominently displayed, let me suggest (or rather, second Jakob's indirect suggestion) that we adopt and progress the document.

I'll respond in the appropriate thread when the adoption call comes up, but
I clearly support adoption.

I'd also like to encourage the authors to refresh the draft meanwhile.  In
particular, please update your IANA considerations with the assigned values.
(And thanks for doing your homework in making sure they got reserved.)

-- Jeff


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering Performance Metric Extensions
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Qin Wu
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Saikat Ray
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Les Ginsberg
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2016-05-11

Abstract:
   This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP
   Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03.txt
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Hi,

this draft is a merge of:
 draft-previdi-idr-bgpls-te-metric-extensions-00
 draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-02.txt

and consists of advertising the IGP TE metric extensions TLVs (RFC7471 and =
RFC7810) into BGP-LS.

Thanks.
s.


> On May 11, 2016, at 9:43 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering =
Performance Metric Extensions
>        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
>                          Qin Wu
>                          Hannes Gredler
>                          Saikat Ray
>                          Jeff Tantsura
>                          Clarence Filsfils
>                          Les Ginsberg
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 9
> 	Date            : 2016-05-11
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP
>   Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-03
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From nobody Thu May 12 01:54:33 2016
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering BGP-LS Extensions
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Saikat Ray
                          Keyur Patel
                          Jie Dong
                          Mach (Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-04.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2016-05-12

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing.  A node steers a
   packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by
   prepending the packet with an SR header.  A segment can represent any
   instruction, topological or service-based.  SR allows to enforce a
   flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining
   per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain.

   The Segment Routing architecture can be directly applied to the MPLS
   dataplane with no change on the forwarding plane.  It requires minor
   extension to the existing link-state routing protocols.

   This document outline a BGP-LS extension for exporting BGP peering
   node topology information (including its peers, interfaces and
   peering ASs) in a way that is exploitable in order to compute
   efficient BGP Peering Engineering policies and strategies.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering BGP-LS Extensions
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Saikat Ray
                          Keyur Patel
                          Jie Dong
                          Mach (Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-05.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2016-05-12

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing.  A node steers a
   packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by
   prepending the packet with an SR header.  A segment can represent any
   instruction, topological or service-based.  SR allows to enforce a
   flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining
   per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain.

   The Segment Routing architecture can be directly applied to the MPLS
   dataplane with no change on the forwarding plane.  It requires minor
   extension to the existing link-state routing protocols.

   This document outline a BGP-LS extension for exporting BGP peering
   node topology information (including its peers, interfaces and
   peering ASs) in a way that is exploitable in order to compute
   efficient BGP Peering Engineering policies and strategies.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu May 12 02:06:50 2016
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Psu3hKDIOBm16pAUU_mwZzu4flE>
Subject: [Idr] Presentation recording for draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, for Monday May 16 interim
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--Apple-Mail=_2F47A287-D6DB-4E14-9A17-372E229E287C
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Hi Everyone,

The recording for Gunter's presentation is available, link below. Please =
review it before the interim on Monday. I'll send another message when =
the slides have been uploaded to the meeting materials site.

As a reminder, we are having presenters record their talks instead of =
doing them live, as an experiment in dealing with the challenges of =
virtual interims across many timezones. This lets us time-shift much of =
the work, hopefully accommodating people's time zone requirements =
better. We'll be interested in your feedback regarding how well (or =
poorly) it worked, after the Monday meeting.

And another reminder, if you have questions or comments regarding the =
presentation or draft, please consider providing them on the mailing =
list. There is no need to wait until the interim, although of course if =
you'd rather do it verbally during the meeting that's OK too.

Regards,

--John

> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: IDR Working Group <messenger@webex.com>
> Subject: WebEx recording is available for viewing: =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1
> Date: May 12, 2016 at 11:42:25 AM EDT
> To: <jgs@juniper.net>
> Reply-To: <idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
>=20
> Hello,
> IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx recording with you.
> =20
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1
> Thursday, May 12, 2016
> 11:30 am  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)
> =20
> Play recording =
<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf26=
6f> (21 min)
> Recording password: (This recording does not require a password.)


--Apple-Mail=_2F47A287-D6DB-4E14-9A17-372E229E287C
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Everyone,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The recording for Gunter's presentation is available, link =
below. Please review it before the interim on Monday. I'll send another =
message when the slides have been uploaded to the meeting materials =
site.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As a =
reminder, we are having presenters record their talks instead of doing =
them live, as an experiment in dealing with the challenges of virtual =
interims across many timezones. This lets us time-shift much of the =
work, hopefully accommodating people's time zone requirements better. =
We'll be interested in your feedback regarding how well (or poorly) it =
worked, after the Monday meeting.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">And another reminder, if you have =
questions or comments regarding the presentation or draft, please =
consider providing them on the mailing list. There is no need to wait =
until the interim, although of course if you'd rather do it verbally =
during the meeting that's OK too.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">--John<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Begin =
forwarded message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">IDR Working Group &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:messenger@webex.com" =
class=3D"">messenger@webex.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">WebEx recording =
is available for viewing: =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1</b><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">May 12, 2016 at 11:42:25 AM =
EDT<br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" class=3D"">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Reply-To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><table =
width=3D"100%" align=3D"left" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% !important; =
max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important; font-family: =
Helvetica; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: =
5px 0px 0px;" class=3D""><table align=3D"left" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% =
!important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important; =
margin-left: 5px;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
word-break: normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, =
102, 102); padding: 0px;" class=3D""><table style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% =
!important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important;" =
class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); padding: =
0px;" class=3D"">Hello,</td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); padding: =
10px 0px 0px;" class=3D"">IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx =
recording with you.</td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); padding: =
0px;" class=3D""></td></tr></tbody></table><table =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: =
0px; width: 100% !important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: =
279px !important;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: =
normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
padding: 0px; height: 20px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"100%" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: =
0px; width: 100% !important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: =
279px !important;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: =
normal; font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); =
padding: 0px;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 =
1502-1</b></td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px; margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: =
0px;" class=3D"">Thursday, May 12, 2016</td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height:=
 20px; margin: 0px;" class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
word-break: normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, =
102, 102); padding: 0px;" class=3D"">11:30 =
am&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;Eastern Daylight Time (New York, =
GMT-04:00)</td></tr></tbody></table><table style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% =
!important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important;" =
class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: =
0px; height: 20px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><table =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: =
0px; width: auto !important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: =
279px !important;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
word-break: normal; font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, =
175, 249); padding: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470fed=
dd9bf266f" style=3D"font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, =
175, 249); padding: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Play recording</b></a><font style=3D"font-size: 15px; =
font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>(21 =
min)</font></td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" class=3D""><td =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; font-size: 15px; =
font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Recording password: (This recording does not require a =
password.)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></=
tbody></table></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_2F47A287-D6DB-4E14-9A17-372E229E287C--


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Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, russ@riw.us, idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-add-paths@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Kathleen,

On May 11, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Kathleen Moriarty =
<kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>> Kathleen,
>>=20
>> On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 10:58:01AM -0700, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>>> 1. I'd like to see the security considerations explicitly state that =
this
>>> could result in a denial of service attack.  The resource =
consumption is
>>> stated nicely, but it would be good (following RFC3552) to state the =
type
>>> of attack.
>>>=20
>>>  "This document defines a BGP extension that allows the =
advertisement
>>>   of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new =
paths
>>>   implicitly replacing any previous ones.  As a result, multiple =
paths
>>>   for a large number of prefixes may be received by a BGP speaker
>>>   potentially depleting memory resources or even causing =
network-wide
>>>   instability."
>>>=20
>>> Adding something like: "This could result in a denial of service
>>> attack."
>>=20
>> The considerations of a BGP peer's normal protocol interactions with =
a BGP
>> speaker - with or without add-paths - being considered a Denial of =
Service
>> seems to be unnecessary scare words.
>>=20
>> While the add-paths case does permit a much larger number of paths to =
be
>> propagated, the same issue may apply to simply sending along a much =
larger
>> amount of some routing table than expected.  This could include =
sending a
>> full Internet routing table to a router scaled for a few thousands of
>> routes.
>>=20
>> I recommend against this change.
>=20
> This is just a comment, so it's up to the shepherd and AD, but adding
> this would be in line with the guidance from RFC3552.
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3552

Looking at RFC 3552 S. 2.3.3 ("Denial of Service") it does suggest that =
DoS be considered and identified when relevant. I think Jeff's point =
(which I agree with) is that add-path doesn't change the fundamentals of =
BGP with respect to DoS -- the peer can send me a bazillion routes, =
differentiating them by prefix, or by path-id, or both. It just comes =
down to which bits in the NLRI are used to make the routes unique.

Anyway, point taken that we should think about this more before making =
any definite conclusion, and if add-path does create any new DoS =
vulnerability we should identify it.

Regards,

--John=


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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/mfNqc78Kzo0kCsIOiizWVq0_37E>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Presentation recording for draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, for Monday May 16 interim
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--Apple-Mail=_3609F35A-AF9B-4753-B671-2389BA2250AE
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Slides: =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-inte=
rim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf

--John

> On May 12, 2016, at 11:50 AM, John G. Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Everyone,
>=20
> The recording for Gunter's presentation is available, link below. =
Please review it before the interim on Monday. I'll send another message =
when the slides have been uploaded to the meeting materials site.
>=20
> As a reminder, we are having presenters record their talks instead of =
doing them live, as an experiment in dealing with the challenges of =
virtual interims across many timezones. This lets us time-shift much of =
the work, hopefully accommodating people's time zone requirements =
better. We'll be interested in your feedback regarding how well (or =
poorly) it worked, after the Monday meeting.
>=20
> And another reminder, if you have questions or comments regarding the =
presentation or draft, please consider providing them on the mailing =
list. There is no need to wait until the interim, although of course if =
you'd rather do it verbally during the meeting that's OK too.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> --John
>=20
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>=20
>> From: IDR Working Group <messenger@webex.com =
<mailto:messenger@webex.com>>
>> Subject: WebEx recording is available for viewing: =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1
>> Date: May 12, 2016 at 11:42:25 AM EDT
>> To: <jgs@juniper.net <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>>
>> Reply-To: <idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org =
<mailto:idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org>>
>>=20
>> Hello,
>> IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx recording with you.
>> =20
>> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1
>> Thursday, May 12, 2016
>> 11:30 am  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)
>> =20
>> Play recording =
<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf26=
6f> (21 min)
>> Recording password: (This recording does not require a password.)
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


--Apple-Mail=_3609F35A-AF9B-4753-B671-2389BA2250AE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Slides:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/sli=
des-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/=
slides-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf</a><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">--John</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
May 12, 2016, at 11:50 AM, John G. Scudder &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" class=3D"">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii" class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi Everyone,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The recording for Gunter's presentation is available, link =
below. Please review it before the interim on Monday. I'll send another =
message when the slides have been uploaded to the meeting materials =
site.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As a =
reminder, we are having presenters record their talks instead of doing =
them live, as an experiment in dealing with the challenges of virtual =
interims across many timezones. This lets us time-shift much of the =
work, hopefully accommodating people's time zone requirements better. =
We'll be interested in your feedback regarding how well (or poorly) it =
worked, after the Monday meeting.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">And another reminder, if you have =
questions or comments regarding the presentation or draft, please =
consider providing them on the mailing list. There is no need to wait =
until the interim, although of course if you'd rather do it verbally =
during the meeting that's OK too.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">--John<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Begin =
forwarded message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">IDR Working Group &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:messenger@webex.com" =
class=3D"">messenger@webex.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b=
 class=3D"">WebEx recording is available for viewing: =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1</b><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">May 12, 2016 at 11:42:25 AM EDT<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" =
class=3D"">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Reply-To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><table =
width=3D"100%" align=3D"left" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% !important; =
max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important; font-family: =
Helvetica; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: =
5px 0px 0px;" class=3D""><table align=3D"left" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% =
!important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important; =
margin-left: 5px;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
word-break: normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, =
102, 102); padding: 0px;" class=3D""><table style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% =
!important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important;" =
class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); padding: =
0px;" class=3D"">Hello,</td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); padding: =
10px 0px 0px;" class=3D"">IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx =
recording with you.</td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); padding: =
0px;" class=3D""></td></tr></tbody></table><table =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: =
0px; width: 100% !important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: =
279px !important;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: =
normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
padding: 0px; height: 20px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"100%" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: =
0px; width: 100% !important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: =
279px !important;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: =
normal; font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(77, 77, 77); =
padding: 0px;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 =
1502-1</b></td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px; margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: =
0px;" class=3D"">Thursday, May 12, 2016</td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height:=
 20px; margin: 0px;" class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
word-break: normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, =
102, 102); padding: 0px;" class=3D"">11:30 =
am&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;Eastern Daylight Time (New York, =
GMT-04:00)</td></tr></tbody></table><table style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: 0px; width: 100% =
!important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: 279px !important;" =
class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" =
class=3D""><td style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; =
font-size: 15px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: =
0px; height: 20px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><table =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border: 0px white; border-spacing: =
0px; width: auto !important; max-width: 525px !important; min-width: =
279px !important;" class=3D""><tbody class=3D""><tr style=3D"line-height: =
20px;" class=3D""><td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
word-break: normal; font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, =
175, 249); padding: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470fed=
dd9bf266f" style=3D"font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, =
175, 249); padding: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Play recording</b></a><font style=3D"font-size: 15px; =
font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>(21 =
min)</font></td></tr><tr style=3D"line-height: 20px;" class=3D""><td =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; word-break: normal; font-size: 15px; =
font-family: Arial; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Recording password: (This recording does not require a =
password.)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></=
tbody></table></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Idr mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Idr@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_3609F35A-AF9B-4753-B671-2389BA2250AE--


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>
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Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Russ White <russ@riw.us>, idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-add-paths@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-14: (with COMMENT)
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On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:08 PM, John G. Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
> Hi Kathleen,
>
> On May 11, 2016, at 10:29 AM, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@g=
mail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>>> Kathleen,
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 10:58:01AM -0700, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>>>> 1. I'd like to see the security considerations explicitly state that t=
his
>>>> could result in a denial of service attack.  The resource consumption =
is
>>>> stated nicely, but it would be good (following RFC3552) to state the t=
ype
>>>> of attack.
>>>>
>>>>  "This document defines a BGP extension that allows the advertisement
>>>>   of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new paths
>>>>   implicitly replacing any previous ones.  As a result, multiple paths
>>>>   for a large number of prefixes may be received by a BGP speaker
>>>>   potentially depleting memory resources or even causing network-wide
>>>>   instability."
>>>>
>>>> Adding something like: "This could result in a denial of service
>>>> attack."
>>>
>>> The considerations of a BGP peer's normal protocol interactions with a =
BGP
>>> speaker - with or without add-paths - being considered a Denial of Serv=
ice
>>> seems to be unnecessary scare words.
>>>
>>> While the add-paths case does permit a much larger number of paths to b=
e
>>> propagated, the same issue may apply to simply sending along a much lar=
ger
>>> amount of some routing table than expected.  This could include sending=
 a
>>> full Internet routing table to a router scaled for a few thousands of
>>> routes.
>>>
>>> I recommend against this change.
>>
>> This is just a comment, so it's up to the shepherd and AD, but adding
>> this would be in line with the guidance from RFC3552.
>>
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3552
>
> Looking at RFC 3552 S. 2.3.3 ("Denial of Service") it does suggest that D=
oS be considered and identified when relevant. I think Jeff's point (which =
I agree with) is that add-path doesn't change the fundamentals of BGP with =
respect to DoS -- the peer can send me a bazillion routes, differentiating =
them by prefix, or by path-id, or both. It just comes down to which bits in=
 the NLRI are used to make the routes unique.
>
> Anyway, point taken that we should think about this more before making an=
y definite conclusion, and if add-path does create any new DoS vulnerabilit=
y we should identify it.

Thanks, John!

>
> Regards,
>
> --John



--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen


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Subject: [Idr] May 16 IDR Interim
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Hi All,

As (yet another) reminder, we have a virtual interim meeting scheduled =
for May 16, 2016 at 22:00 - 23:00 EDT. (Yes, the time of 10 PM EDT is =
correct. We apologize to those who are inconvenienced and point out that =
other WG members have been putting up with similar suboptimal time zone =
scheduling for some time now.) The topic of the interim is flowspec =
tunnel redirection. Presentations will be (or have been) prerecorded and =
should be reviewed before the meeting, the purpose of the live meeting =
is discussion.

The agenda has been uploaded:=20
=
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/agenda/agenda-inte=
rim-2016-idr-5
we will update it as presentations are recorded.

So far one presentation has been recorded, so far two presentation slide =
decks are uploaded. Slides are accessible at the meeting materials site: =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/proceedings.html

Thanks,

--John=


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Subject: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th  - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.
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The time of the interim is 22:00-23:00 EDT on May 16th.  

 

The interim will discuss the following two drafts in order to create a WG
solution: 

 

.         draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, and

.         draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid

 

Some of the Questions that will be discuss are included below.  Please
review the pre-recording presentations prior to the meeting.   The Chairs
encourage discussion of these questions on the list before, during, and
after the meeting. 

 

Sue and John 

 

========================

 

Agenda for IDR Virtual Interim Meeting 

 

May 16, 2016

22:00 - 23:00 EDT

 

WebEx:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m9be481d19988dd1b545be6759aee267b

Meeting number:            649 235 411

Meeting password:         Jg66d2pm

Join by phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 649 235 411

 

Questions for meeting: 

 

Submitted by (Eric Wu)

1. Redirect-to-Specific-Tunnel with BGP Path Attribute [TUNNELENCAPS][MPP]
and 

  Redirect-to-IID/GSID, Required by different use cases, can we have two
docs in IDR In parallel? 

  [Comparison to Redirect-to-IID/GSID , draft-hao will have more little
modification 

  to existing mechanisms, No need to do Mapping /Recursive Lookup.]

 

2.  For IID/GSID, one mapping table for 

  all kinds of segments/forwarding-entities vs. one mapping table 

  per segments/forwarding-entities type, should we support both?

 

Chair Questions: 

 

1) Does the WG feel we need the following for RFC5575bis (DDoS)

  a) Redirection to VRF, 

  b) Redirection to Indirection to IP, and  

  c) Redirection to Service (new)? 

  

2) If the WG desires redirection to Service routing, does the WG desire

a) Next-Hop tunnel support? -

b) Next-Hop TE Tunnel support? 

 c) Nested Tunnel support? 

 d) Next-Next Hop Tunnel Support? 

 e) Router localized Tunnel recursion? 

 f) Tunnel Encap Recursion: 

 

3) What pieces of the proposed solutions have been implemented

   and/or deployed?   

 

 

Presentations (prerecorded, please review prior to meeting):

- draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect

  Gunter Van De Velde

  21 minutes

  https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=e01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf266f

 

presentation at: 

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-interi
m-2016-idr-5-0.pdf

 

 

draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid

Eric Wu 

20 minutes 

 

Streaming recording link:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=c8615aa845801a1e4b79cb1708a04484

Download recording link:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=4bd504329727d2a811c9cb0c9bc713d8

 

presentation at: 

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-interi
m-2016-idr-5-1.pdf

 


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t, and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:38.35pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]>draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized=
-sid<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Some of the Questions that will be discuss are =
included below.&nbsp; Please review the pre-recording presentations =
prior to the meeting.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Chairs encourage discussion of =
these questions on the list before, during, and after the meeting. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue and John <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Agenda =
for IDR Virtual Interim Meeting <o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>May 16, =
2016<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>22:00 - 23:00 =
EDT<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>WebEx: =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be6759aee267=
b<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Meeting =
number:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 649 235 411<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Meeting =
password:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Jg66d2pm<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Join by phone<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number =
(US/Canada)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>1-650-479-3208 Call-in =
toll number (US/Canada)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Access code: =
649 235 411<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>Questions for meeting: <o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Submitted by =
(Eric Wu)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>1. =
Redirect-to-Specific-Tunnel with BGP Path Attribute [TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] =
and <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;Redirect-to-IID/GSID, Required by =
different use cases, can we have two docs in IDR In parallel? =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;[Comparison to =
Redirect-to-IID/GSID , draft-hao will have more little modification =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;to existing mechanisms, =
No need to do Mapping /Recursive Lookup.]<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>2.&nbsp; For =
IID/GSID, one mapping table for <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;all kinds of segments/forwarding-entities =
vs. one mapping table <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;per segments/forwarding-entities type, =
should we support both?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Chair =
Questions: <o:p></o:p></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>1) Does the =
WG feel we need the following for RFC5575bis (DDoS)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; a) Redirection to VRF, <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;b) Redirection to Indirection to IP, and =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;c) Redirection to =
Service (new)? <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>2) If =
the WG desires redirection to Service routing, does the WG =
desire<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> a) Next-Hop tunnel support? =
-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> b) Next-Hop TE Tunnel support? =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;c) Nested Tunnel support? =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;d) Next-Next Hop Tunnel =
Support? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;e) Router localized =
Tunnel recursion? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;f) Tunnel =
Encap Recursion: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>3) What =
pieces of the proposed solutions have been implemented<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp; and/or deployed?&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>Presentations (prerecorded, please review prior to =
meeting):<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>- =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; Gunter Van De Velde<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; 21 minutes<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf26=
6f<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>presentation at: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr=
/slides/slides-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Eric Wu <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>20 minutes <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Streaming =
recording link:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa84580=
1a1e4b79cb1708a04484<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Download =
recording link:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb=
0c9bc713d8">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811=
c9cb0c9bc713d8</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>presentation =
at: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/sl=
ides-interim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2=
016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-interim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01D1ACE3.3F2A3760--


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From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th  - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th  - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.
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Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 15:00:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th  - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.
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--_000_D35B638860D9Eaceeciscocom_--


From nobody Fri May 13 08:47:06 2016
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Advertising Node Admin Tags in BGP Link-State Advertisements
        Authors         : Pushpasis Sarkar
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Stephane Litkowski
	Filename        : draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-04.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2016-05-13

Abstract:
   This document describes the protocol extensions to collect node
   administrative tags adevertised in IGP Link State advertisements and
   disseminate the same in BGP Link-State advertisement protocol, to
   facilitate inter-AS TE applications that may need the same node
   administrative tags to associate a subset of network devices spanning
   across more than one AS with a specific functionality.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-psarkar-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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Acee:

=20

The link for Eric=E2=80=99s talk is the message you copies (see below) =
and I included here:=20

=20

Streaming recording link:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb1708a044=
84

Download recording link:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb0c9bc713=
d8

=20

The location:=20

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/agenda/agenda-int=
erim-2016-idr-5

=20

on the Agenda has both links.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 11:01 AM
To: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE); idr@ietf.org; John Scudder
Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, questions for =
meeting, and recordings.

=20

Hi John,=20

=20

I was able to find Gunter=E2=80=99s WebEx recording via a URL in one of =
the E-mails but neither recording link is on the meeting materials page =
and I=E2=80=99d like to watch Eric=E2=80=99s as well.=20

=20

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/proceedings.html

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Van De Velde, Gunter =
(Nokia - BE)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
Date: Friday, May 13, 2016 at 10:55 AM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, questions for =
meeting, and recordings.

=20

Pre-liminar comments=E2=80=A6..

=20

Before engaging with my feedback and addressing the discussion slides, i =
would like to thank both Sue and John for going through the effort and =
time to try to make the recordings as good as possible and investing =
non-trivial amounts of time to get the job done.

=20

I would also like to thanks Eric Wu to go through the exercise of =
recording his presentation of the slides. I went through the same =
exercise and even though there were less operational issues to deal with =
during my recording, it is a non-trivial task to speak to a screen and =
not to an audience.=20

=20

=20

Comments: Working slides discussion of the 16 May 2016 Interim IDR =
meeting:

-------------

=20

=20

Timeline info

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=20

draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 created on 14 September =
2015

draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created on 12 January =
2016

draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 created on 17 March 2016

=20

draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 created on 21 March =
2016

=20

=20

General slide observations about draft-li-generalised-sid-00 (ref. =
discussion slide for 16 May 2016)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=20

Draft-li documents a flowspec action using a new community =
(generalized-SID). The extended community provides a flowspec client =
information to make a local forwarding decision by means of a local =
mapping table. The two main components used by the flowspec client is: =
(1) an identifier and (2) semantics.

=20

Draft-vandevelde documents a flowspec action using a new community =
(Indirection-ID). The extended community provides a flowspec client =
information to make a local forwarding decision by means of a local =
mapping table. The two main components used by the flowspec client is: =
(1) an identifier and (2) optionally semantics (Table semantics + =
Tunnel-ID).

=20

draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 was created =
=E2=80=9Cbefore" draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 and =
achieves the same functionality and more. (For example draft-vandevelde =
has the potential to signal 8192 types of semantic mapping tables while =
draft-li has 255, another example is the TID field which allows dynamic =
Next-Next-Hop constructs use for EPE DDoS redirection).

=20

During WG addoption-call 3/25 to 4/8 the following has been mentioned by =
Ignas: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html

=20

"Draft-vandevelde can achieve all what draft-hao and draft-li can, and =
in a more flexible way. Having the ability to decouple redirection =
tunnel type from redirection action is both practical and extensible - =
the actual tunnel to be used is a local operational decision for each =
network element, it is not necessary signalled at the same time and by =
the same mechanism. Decoupling signalling and redirect parts aligns well =
to operational practices of using specific tools for specific tasks. =
Just that BGP could do that does not necesasry mean that it should be =
used as a best fit. From operational perspective there is no need to =
have multiple solutions that try to address the narrow problem space in =
similar yet incompatible ways. There should be one document for =
redirect, and draft-vandevelde is a good starting base for that."

=20

=20

Detail view: slide observations draft-li-generalised-sid-00 discussion

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=20

Slide 2 (of the draft-li presentation): History=20

=3D=3D

=20

The slide forgets to mention that draft-vandevelde was enhanced and =
progressed based upon constructive WG feedback. Much feedback has been =
integrated between draft-vandevelde -00 to =E2=80=9302 BEFORE =
draft=E2=80=93li even existed. For example:

* Use-case scenario=E2=80=99s were added

* "Path-id" changed to "Indirection-id"

* Concept of Indirection tables has been added (hence adding the =
capability of context/semantics signalling already since version -01)

* Flowspec validation information is added

* signalling of context/semantics is added by introducing Binding-SID =
context identifier as a first extension of Indirection-id extended =
community.

=20

It is an incorrect assumption of no context awareness in =
draft-vandevelde. draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect added =
context support before draft-li existed, and raises questions about new =
elements exposed with draft-li compared to draft-vandevelde.

=20

(fwiw The semantic awareness of draft-vandevelde is mentioned and the =
webex recording of draft-li between recording time-stamps 11m30s to =
13m30s)

=20

=20

Slide 3 (of the draft-li presentation)

=3D=3D

=20

No new capability is explained on this slide in comparison with the =
draft-vandevelde.

In draft-vandevelde the information found in the indirection-id is used =
on a flowspec client in a local mapping-table (indirection-id table) to =
find local forwarding information. The new flowspec extended community =
as documented by draft-vandevelde can provide already a flowspec client =
the required semantic/context information (example is the =
=E2=80=98B=E2=80=99 bit).

=20

=20

Slide 4 (of the draft-li presentation)

=3D=3D

=20

The goal of draft-li is to define a =E2=80=9Csemantics =
dependent=E2=80=9D action.

However, draft-vandevelde already allows that functionality before =
draft-li existed

=20

=20

Slide 5 (of the draft-li presentation)

=3D=3D

=20

Draft-vandevelde has indeed the potential to be used in such a manner. =
The intend of this slide at the time of usage was to show an extreme =
example of the flexiblity the technology offers. When for example using =
redirection to binding-SID (as documented in latest draft-vandevelde) =
then the local mapping table can be based around the signalled =
semantics.

=20

=20

Slide 6 (of the draft-li presentation)

=3D=3D

=20

Draft-vandevelde has 13 bits available for types, hence the potential to =
support/signal 2^13 (=3D8192) types when using the field as scalar value =
(when comparing with a potential for 255 types using draft-li)

=20

The claim made on slide6 that draft-vandevelde allows only 13 type of =
semantic information is wrong assumption.

=20

At the time of writing, it was found useful to signal binding SID useful =
semantic =E2=80=A6 We decided to leave the remaining bits reserved/open =
for discussion on how to best use the field instead.=20

Maybe the WG feels it is best to use only a few bits for semantics and =
keep the remainder reserved for future use.=20

=20

Kind Regards,

G/

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Friday 13 May 2016 at 12:46
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, questions for meeting, =
and recordings.

=20

The time of the interim is 22:00-23:00 EDT on May 16th. =20

=20

The interim will discuss the following two drafts in order to create a =
WG solution:=20

=20

=C2=B7         draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, and

=C2=B7         draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid

=20

Some of the Questions that will be discuss are included below.  Please =
review the pre-recording presentations prior to the meeting.   The =
Chairs encourage discussion of these questions on the list before, =
during, and after the meeting.=20

=20

Sue and John=20

=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=20

Agenda for IDR Virtual Interim Meeting=20

=20

May 16, 2016

22:00 - 23:00 EDT

=20

WebEx: =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be6759aee267=
b

Meeting number:            649 235 411

Meeting password:         Jg66d2pm

Join by phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: 649 235 411

=20

Questions for meeting:=20

=20

Submitted by (Eric Wu)

1. Redirect-to-Specific-Tunnel with BGP Path Attribute =
[TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] and=20

  Redirect-to-IID/GSID, Required by different use cases, can we have two =
docs in IDR In parallel?=20

  [Comparison to Redirect-to-IID/GSID , draft-hao will have more little =
modification=20

  to existing mechanisms, No need to do Mapping /Recursive Lookup.]

=20

2.  For IID/GSID, one mapping table for=20

  all kinds of segments/forwarding-entities vs. one mapping table=20

  per segments/forwarding-entities type, should we support both?

=20

Chair Questions:=20

=20

1) Does the WG feel we need the following for RFC5575bis (DDoS)

  a) Redirection to VRF,=20

  b) Redirection to Indirection to IP, and =20

  c) Redirection to Service (new)?=20

 =20

2) If the WG desires redirection to Service routing, does the WG desire

a) Next-Hop tunnel support? -

b) Next-Hop TE Tunnel support?=20

 c) Nested Tunnel support?=20

 d) Next-Next Hop Tunnel Support?=20

 e) Router localized Tunnel recursion?=20

 f) Tunnel Encap Recursion:=20

=20

3) What pieces of the proposed solutions have been implemented

   and/or deployed?  =20

=20

=20

Presentations (prerecorded, please review prior to meeting):

- draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect

  Gunter Van De Velde

  21 minutes

  =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf26=
6f

=20

presentation at:=20

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf

=20

=20

draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid

Eric Wu=20

20 minutes=20

=20

Streaming recording link:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb1708a044=
84

Download recording link:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb0c9bc713=
d8

=20

presentation at:=20

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The link for =
Eric=E2=80=99s talk is the message you copies (see below) and I included =
here: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Streaming recording =
link:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb=
1708a04484">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b=
79cb1708a04484</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Download recording link:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb=
0c9bc713d8">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811=
c9cb0c9bc713d8</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The location: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/agenda/ag=
enda-interim-2016-idr-5">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05=
/16/idr/agenda/agenda-interim-2016-idr-5</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>on the Agenda has both =
links. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 13, 2016 11:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> Van =
De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE); idr@ietf.org; John =
Scudder<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, =
questions for meeting, and =
recordings.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Hi =
John,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>I =
was able to find Gunter=E2=80=99s WebEx recording via a URL in one of =
the E-mails but neither recording link is on the meeting materials page =
and I=E2=80=99d like to watch Eric=E2=80=99s as =
well.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/proceedin=
gs.html">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/proceedi=
ngs.html</a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Acee<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of &quot;Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com">gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c=
om</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Friday, May 13, 2016 at 10:55 AM<br><b>To: =
</b>IDR List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, questions for meeting, and =
recordings.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF =
4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in' =
id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'>Pre-liminar =
comments=E2=80=A6..<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'>Before engaging with my feedback and =
addressing the discussion slides, i would like to thank both Sue and =
John for going through the effort and time to try to make the recordings =
as good as possible and investing non-trivial amounts of time to get the =
job done.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'>I would also like to thanks Eric Wu to go =
through the exercise of recording his presentation of the slides. I went =
through the same exercise and even though there were less operational =
issues to deal with during my recording, it is a non-trivial task to =
speak to a screen and not to an =
audience.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'>Comments: Working slides discussion of the 16 =
May 2016 Interim IDR meeting:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'>-------------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Timeline =
info<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path=
-redirect-00 created on 14 September =
2015<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path=
-redirect-01 created on 12 January =
2016<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path=
-redirect-02 created on 17 March 2016<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-gen=
eralized-sid-00 created on 21 March =
2016<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>General slide observations about =
draft-li-generalised-sid-00 (ref. discussion slide for 16 May =
2016)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Draft-li documents a flowspec =
action using a new community (generalized-SID). The extended community =
provides a flowspec client information to make a local forwarding =
decision by means of a local mapping table. The two main components used =
by the flowspec client is: (1) an identifier and (2) =
semantics.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Draft-vandevelde documents a =
flowspec action using a new community (Indirection-ID). The extended =
community provides a flowspec client information to make a local =
forwarding decision by means of a local mapping table. The two main =
components used by the flowspec client is: (1) an identifier and (2) =
optionally semantics (Table semantics + =
Tunnel-ID).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path=
-redirect-02&nbsp;was =
created&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cbefore&quot;&nbsp;draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-ge=
neralized-sid-00 and achieves the same functionality and more. (For =
example draft-vandevelde has the potential to signal 8192 types of =
semantic mapping tables while draft-li has 255, another example is the =
TID field which allows dynamic Next-Next-Hop constructs use for EPE DDoS =
redirection).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>During WG addoption-call 3/25 to =
4/8 the following has been mentioned by Ignas: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html">h=
ttp://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:30.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>&quot;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Draft-vandevelde can achieve all what draft-hao and =
draft-li can, and in a more flexible way. Having the ability to decouple =
redirection<span style=3D'background:white'> tunnel type from =
redirection action is both practical and extensible - the actual tunnel =
to be used is a local operational decision for each network element, it =
is not necessary signalled at the same time and by the same mechanism. =
Decoupling signalling and redirect parts aligns well to operational =
practices of using specific tools for specific tasks. Just that BGP =
could do that does not necesasry mean that it should be used as a best =
fit. From operational perspective there is no need to have multiple =
solutions that try to address the narrow problem space in similar yet =
incompatible ways. There should be one document for redirect, and =
draft-vandevelde is a good starting base for =
that.&quot;</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica =
Neue","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><div><=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Detail view: slide observations =
draft-li-generalised-sid-00 =
discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Slide 2 (of the draft-li =
presentation): History&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>The slide forgets to mention that =
draft-vandevelde was enhanced and progressed based upon constructive WG =
feedback. Much feedback has been integrated between draft-vandevelde -00 =
to =E2=80=9302 BEFORE draft=E2=80=93li even existed. For =
example:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>* Use-case scenario=E2=80=99s =
were added<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>* &quot;Path-id&quot; changed to =
&quot;Indirection-id&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>* Concept =
of Indirection tables has been added (hence adding the capability of =
context/semantics signalling already since version =
-01)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>* Flowspec validation information =
is added<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>* signalling of context/semantics =
is added by introducing Binding-SID context identifier as a first =
extension of Indirection-id extended =
community.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>It is an incorrect assumption of =
no context awareness in draft-vandevelde. =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect added context support before =
draft-li existed, and raises questions about new elements exposed with =
draft-li compared to =
draft-vandevelde.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black;background:#FFFDF5'>(fwiw The =
semantic awareness of draft-vandevelde is mentioned and the webex =
recording of draft-li between recording time-stamps 11m30s to =
13m30s)</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Slide 3 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>No new capability is explained on =
this slide in comparison with the =
draft-vandevelde.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>In =
draft-vandevelde the information found in the indirection-id is used on =
a flowspec client in a local mapping-table (indirection-id table) to =
find local forwarding information. The new flowspec extended community =
as documented by draft-vandevelde can provide already a flowspec client =
the required semantic/context information (example is the =
=E2=80=98B=E2=80=99 bit).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Slide 4 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>The goal of draft-li is to define =
a =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D =
action.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>However, draft-vandevelde already =
allows that functionality before draft-li =
existed<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Slide 5 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Draft-vandevelde has indeed the =
potential to be used in such a manner. The intend of this slide at the =
time of usage was to show an extreme example of the flexiblity the =
technology offers. When for example using redirection to binding-SID (as =
documented in latest draft-vandevelde) then the local mapping table can =
be based around the signalled =
semantics.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Slide 6 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Draft-vandevelde has 13 bits =
available for types, hence the potential to support/signal 2^13 =
(=3D8192) types when using the field as scalar value (when comparing =
with a potential for 255 types using =
draft-li)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>The claim made on slide6 that =
draft-vandevelde allows only 13 type of semantic information is wrong =
assumption.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>At the time of writing, it was =
found useful to signal binding SID useful semantic =E2=80=A6 We decided =
to leave the remaining bits reserved/open for discussion on how to best =
use the field instead.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Maybe the =
WG feels it is best to use only a few bits for semantics and keep the =
remainder reserved for future =
use.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Kind =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>G/<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></di=
v></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Friday 13 May 2016 at 12:46<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>[Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, questions for meeting, and =
recordings.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>The time of =
the interim is 22:00-23:00 EDT on May 16<sup>th</sup>. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>The interim will discuss =
the following two drafts in order to create a WG solution: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:38.35pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C2=B7<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:38.35pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C2=B7<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Some of the Questions that =
will be discuss are included below.&nbsp; Please review the =
pre-recording presentations prior to the meeting.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Chairs =
encourage discussion of these questions on the list before, during, and =
after the meeting. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Sue and John =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>Agenda for IDR Virtual =
Interim Meeting </span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>May 16, =
2016<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>22:00 - 23:00 EDT<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>WebEx: <a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be67=
59aee267b">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545b=
e6759aee267b</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Meeting =
number:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 649 235 411<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Meeting =
password:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Jg66d2pm<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Join by phone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>1-877-668-4493 Call-in =
toll free number (US/Canada)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>1-650-479-3208 Call-in =
toll number (US/Canada)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Access code: 649 235 411<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>Questions for meeting: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Submitted by (Eric =
Wu)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>1. Redirect-to-Specific-Tunnel with BGP Path =
Attribute [TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] and <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;Redirect-to-IID/GSID, Required by =
different use cases, can we have two docs in IDR In parallel? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;[Comparison to Redirect-to-IID/GSID , =
draft-hao will have more little modification <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;to existing =
mechanisms, No need to do Mapping /Recursive =
Lookup.]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>2.&nbsp; For IID/GSID, one =
mapping table for <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;all kinds of =
segments/forwarding-entities vs. one mapping table =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;per segments/forwarding-entities type, =
should we support both?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>Chair Questions: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>1) Does the WG feel we =
need the following for RFC5575bis (DDoS)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; a) Redirection to =
VRF, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;b) Redirection to Indirection to IP, =
and &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;c) Redirection to Service (new)? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>2) If the WG desires =
redirection to Service routing, does the WG =
desire<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>a) Next-Hop tunnel support? =
-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>b) Next-Hop TE Tunnel support? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;c) Nested Tunnel support? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;d) Next-Next Hop Tunnel Support? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;e) Router localized Tunnel recursion? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;f) Tunnel Encap Recursion: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>3) What pieces of the =
proposed solutions have been implemented<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; and/or =
deployed?&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>Presentations =
(prerecorded, please review prior to meeting):</span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>- =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; Gunter Van De =
Velde<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; 21 minutes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470fe=
ddd9bf266f">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f4=
70feddd9bf266f</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>presentation at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/sl=
ides-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2=
016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Eric =
Wu <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>20 minutes <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Streaming recording =
link:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb=
1708a04484">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b=
79cb1708a04484</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Download recording link:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb=
0c9bc713d8">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811=
c9cb0c9bc713d8</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>presentation at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/sl=
ides-interim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2=
016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-interim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div=
></blockquote></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01D1AD0D.D5B31B00--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th  - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th  - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.
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Hi Shunwan, Eric, All,

Inline: GV>

> Timeline info
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =20
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 created on 14 September =
2015
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created on 12 January =
2016
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 created on 17 March =
2016
> =20
> draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 created on 21 March =
2016
> =20
> =20
>  [Reply 01]=20
> The idea of draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid had =
initially been presented in the IDR Interim Meeting of 2015-10-26:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/slides-inte=
rim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf>
> and discussed in IDR mailing list:
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html>
> =20

> =20


GV>
The suggested references document justification discussions around =
draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-02.=20
The reference indicates that draft-vandevelde can use the indirection =
extended community to redirect to a tunnel programmed by =
draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming. =20


> At Oct 26, 2015, draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 =
described the =E2=80=9Csemantics independent=E2=80=9D solution, but we =
think it should simultaneously add =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D =
solution. That happened before =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 which created on 12 =
January 2016. At that time, we don=E2=80=99t think that a separate =
document is immediately needed.
> =20
> After draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created, we =
notice that it did not integrate =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D =
solution, but as per our Research and development team=E2=80=99s =
opinion, we need the =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect =
Action solution.
> =20
> Then =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect to Generalized =
Segment ID Action documented as =
draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid. Coincidentally, at the =
same time, draft-vandevelde introduces =E2=80=9CB=E2=80=9D bit to map =
the value encoded in the global administrator field to a Binding Segment =
Identifier value.


GV>
The concept of draft-vandevelde to signal a flowspec client using a =
redirection identifier is copied in draft-li without even referencing =
any version at all of draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect. =
Coincidence?

> * Concept of Indirection tables has been added (hence adding the =
capability of context/semantics signalling already since version -01)
> [Reply 04]
> Sorry, about =E2=80=9Ccontext/semantics signalling already since =
version -01=E2=80=9D, maybe we missed the related description or did not =
understand it correctly, can you show us the text in version -01?
> =20


GV>
Draft-vandevelde has a discussion around mapping tables, and has the =
extended community =E2=80=98 eserved' bits that can be used to signal =
semantics or tunnel mapping table, and hence the capability is =
available. This capability is used when we actual added redirection to =
SR binding SID.

> =20
> Draft-vandevelde has indeed the potential to be used in such a manner. =
The intend of this slide at the time of usage was to show an extreme =
example of the flexiblity the technology offers. When for example using =
redirection to binding-SID (as documented in latest draft-vandevelde) =
then the local mapping table can be based around the signalled =
semantics.
> [Reply 08]
> So Draft-vandevelde planned to support two categories of the local =
mapping tables?
> 1) the local mapping table per device;
> 2) the local mapping table per service;
> We think that =E2=80=9Csetup the mapping tables per service type=E2=80=9D=
 is easier to implement.


GV>
This is an interesting discussion.=20
draft-vandevelde has the capability to optionally couple semantics to a =
mapping table.
This capability is a powerful tool.  Because of this capability =
currently both (1) and (2) are possible with draft-vandevelde.=20

in addition alternate creative categories could be i.e. : (3) a mapping =
table per flowspec controller or (4) a table per tunnel configuration =
method/controller.

draft-vandevelde can enforce semantic coupling or can permit freedom to =
an operational user=E2=80=A6 There are pro's and con=E2=80=99s for each, =
and i welcome the WG to=20
provide guidance on the operational implications to complement =
draft-vandevelde=E2=80=A6=20

G/



> On 16 May 2016, at 09:20, Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com =
<mailto:zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Gunter,
> =20
> Thanks for your comments, Please see responses inline.
> =20
> Best  Regards,
> Shunwan & Eric.Wu
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Van De Velde, Gunter =
(Nokia - BE)
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2016=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5=
 22:56
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, =
questions for meeting, and recordings.
> =20
> Pre-liminar comments=E2=80=A6..
> =20
> Before engaging with my feedback and addressing the discussion slides, =
i would like to thank both Sue and John for going through the effort and =
time to try to make the recordings as good as possible and investing =
non-trivial amounts of time to get the job done.
> =20
> I would also like to thanks Eric Wu to go through the exercise of =
recording his presentation of the slides. I went through the same =
exercise and even though there were less operational issues to deal with =
during my recording, it is a non-trivial task to speak to a screen and =
not to an audience.=20
> =20
> =20
> Comments: Working slides discussion of the 16 May 2016 Interim IDR =
meeting:
> -------------
> =20
> =20
> Timeline info
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =20
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 created on 14 September =
2015
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created on 12 January =
2016
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 created on 17 March =
2016
> =20
> draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 created on 21 March =
2016
> =20
> =20
>  [Reply 01]=20
> The idea of draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid had =
initially been presented in the IDR Interim Meeting of 2015-10-26:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/slides-inte=
rim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf>
> and discussed in IDR mailing list:
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html>
> =20
> At Oct 26, 2015, draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 =
described the =E2=80=9Csemantics independent=E2=80=9D solution, but we =
think it should simultaneously add =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D =
solution. That happened before =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 which created on 12 =
January 2016. At that time, we don=E2=80=99t think that a separate =
document is immediately needed.
> =20
> After draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created, we =
notice that it did not integrate =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D =
solution, but as per our Research and development team=E2=80=99s =
opinion, we need the =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect =
Action solution.
> =20
> Then =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect to Generalized =
Segment ID Action documented as =
draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid. Coincidentally, at the =
same time, draft-vandevelde introduces =E2=80=9CB=E2=80=9D bit to map =
the value encoded in the global administrator field to a Binding Segment =
Identifier value.
> =20
> General slide observations about draft-li-generalised-sid-00 (ref. =
discussion slide for 16 May 2016)
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =20
> Draft-li documents a flowspec action using a new community =
(generalized-SID). The extended community provides a flowspec client =
information to make a local forwarding decision by means of a local =
mapping table. The two main components used by the flowspec client is: =
(1) an identifier and (2) semantics.
> =20
> Draft-vandevelde documents a flowspec action using a new community =
(Indirection-ID). The extended community provides a flowspec client =
information to make a local forwarding decision by means of a local =
mapping table. The two main components used by the flowspec client is: =
(1) an identifier and (2) optionally semantics (Table semantics + =
Tunnel-ID).
> =20
> draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 was created =E2=80=9Cbefo=
re" draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 and achieves the =
same functionality and more. (For example draft-vandevelde has the =
potential to signal 8192 types of semantic mapping tables while draft-li =
has 255, another example is the TID field which allows dynamic =
Next-Next-Hop constructs use for EPE DDoS redirection).
> [Reply 02]
> The idea of draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid had =
initially been presented in the IDR Interim Meeting of 2015-10-26:=20
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/slides-inte=
rim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf>
> and discussed in IDR mailing list:
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html>
> =20
> During WG addoption-call 3/25 to 4/8 the following has been mentioned =
by Ignas: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html =
<http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html>
> =20
> "Draft-vandevelde can achieve all what draft-hao and draft-li can, and =
in a more flexible way. Having the ability to decouple redirection =
tunnel type from redirection action is both practical and extensible - =
the actual tunnel to be used is a local operational decision for each =
network element, it is not necessary signalled at the same time and by =
the same mechanism. Decoupling signalling and redirect parts aligns well =
to operational practices of using specific tools for specific tasks. =
Just that BGP could do that does not necesasry mean that it should be =
used as a best fit. =46rom operational perspective there is no need to =
have multiple solutions that try to address the narrow problem space in =
similar yet incompatible ways. There should be one document for =
redirect, and draft-vandevelde is a good starting base for that."
> [Reply 03]=20
> As we understand=EF=BC=8CDraft-vandevelde can=E2=80=99t achieve what =
draft-hao can=EF=BC=8Cdraft-hao specifies the specific tunnel from =
Flowspec Controller and the redirect tunnel information is encoded in =
BGP Path Attribute [TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] that is carried in the BGP =
flow-spec UPDATE.
> Comparison to draft-vandevelde, draft-hao will have more little =
modification to existing mechanisms, No need to do Mapping /Recursive =
Lookup.
> =20
> If draft-vandevelde uses more bits to present the type of semantic =
information and use them as type value like draft-li does, not =E2=80=9CPe=
r Service Per Bit=E2=80=9D as Binding Bit defines in version -02, and =
support to setup the mapping tables per service type, we think that the =
requirements of draft-li can be addressed.
> =20
> =20
> Detail view: slide observations draft-li-generalised-sid-00 discussion
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =20
> Slide 2 (of the draft-li presentation): History=20
> =3D=3D
> =20
> The slide forgets to mention that draft-vandevelde was enhanced and =
progressed based upon constructive WG feedback. Much feedback has been =
integrated between draft-vandevelde -00 to =E2=80=9302 BEFORE draft=E2=80=93=
li even existed. For example:
> * Use-case scenario=E2=80=99s were added
> * "Path-id" changed to "Indirection-id"
> * Concept of Indirection tables has been added (hence adding the =
capability of context/semantics signalling already since version -01)
> [Reply 04]
> Sorry, about =E2=80=9Ccontext/semantics signalling already since =
version -01=E2=80=9D, maybe we missed the related description or did not =
understand it correctly, can you show us the text in version -01?
> =20
> * Flowspec validation information is added
> * signalling of context/semantics is added by introducing Binding-SID =
context identifier as a first extension of Indirection-id extended =
community.
> =20
> It is an incorrect assumption of no context awareness in =
draft-vandevelde. draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect added =
context support before draft-li existed, and raises questions about new =
elements exposed with draft-li compared to draft-vandevelde.
> [Reply 05]
> Please refer to Reply 01.
> =20
> (fwiw The semantic awareness of draft-vandevelde is mentioned and the =
webex recording of draft-li between recording time-stamps 11m30s to =
13m30s)
> =20
> =20
> Slide 3 (of the draft-li presentation)
> =3D=3D
> =20
> No new capability is explained on this slide in comparison with the =
draft-vandevelde.
> In draft-vandevelde the information found in the indirection-id is =
used on a flowspec client in a local mapping-table (indirection-id =
table) to find local forwarding information. The new flowspec extended =
community as documented by draft-vandevelde can provide already a =
flowspec client the required semantic/context information (example is =
the =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99 bit).
> [Reply 06]
> Also, please refer to Reply 01.
> =20
> Slide 4 (of the draft-li presentation)
> =3D=3D
> =20
> The goal of draft-li is to define a =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D=
 action.
> However, draft-vandevelde already allows that functionality before =
draft-li existed
> [Reply 07]
> Also, please refer to Reply 01.
> =20
> Slide 5 (of the draft-li presentation)
> =3D=3D
> =20
> Draft-vandevelde has indeed the potential to be used in such a manner. =
The intend of this slide at the time of usage was to show an extreme =
example of the flexiblity the technology offers. When for example using =
redirection to binding-SID (as documented in latest draft-vandevelde) =
then the local mapping table can be based around the signalled =
semantics.
> [Reply 08]
> So Draft-vandevelde planned to support two categories of the local =
mapping tables?
> 1) the local mapping table per device;
> 2) the local mapping table per service;
> We think that =E2=80=9Csetup the mapping tables per service type=E2=80=9D=
 is easier to implement.
> =20
> =20
> Slide 6 (of the draft-li presentation)
> =3D=3D
> =20
> Draft-vandevelde has 13 bits available for types, hence the potential =
to support/signal 2^13 (=3D8192) types when using the field as scalar =
value (when comparing with a potential for 255 types using draft-li)
> =20
> The claim made on slide6 that draft-vandevelde allows only 13 type of =
semantic information is wrong assumption.
> [Reply 09]
> Sure, if draft-vandevelde uses more bits to present the type of =
semantic information and use them as type value like draft-li does, not =
=E2=80=9CPer Service Per Bit=E2=80=9D as Binding Bit defines in =
draft-vandevelde  version -02.
> =20
> At the time of writing, it was found useful to signal binding SID =
useful semantic =E2=80=A6 We decided to leave the remaining bits =
reserved/open for discussion on how to best use the field instead.=20
> Maybe the WG feels it is best to use only a few bits for semantics and =
keep the remainder reserved for future use.=20
> =20
> Kind Regards,
> G/
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com <mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>
> Date: Friday 13 May 2016 at 12:46
> To: "idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>" <idr@ietf.org =
<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
> Subject: [Idr] IDR interim on May 16th - webex, questions for meeting, =
and recordings.
> =20
> The time of the interim is 22:00-23:00 EDT on May 16th. =20
> =20
> The interim will discuss the following two drafts in order to create a =
WG solution:
> =20
> =C2=B7         draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, and
> =C2=B7         draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid
> =20
> Some of the Questions that will be discuss are included below.  Please =
review the pre-recording presentations prior to the meeting.   The =
Chairs encourage discussion of these questions on the list before, =
during, and after the meeting.=20
> =20
> Sue and John=20
> =20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

> =20
> Agenda for IDR Virtual Interim Meeting
> =20
> May 16, 2016
> 22:00 - 23:00 EDT
> =20
> WebEx: =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be6759aee267b=
 =
<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be6759aee267=
b>
> Meeting number:            649 235 411
> Meeting password:         Jg66d2pm
> Join by phone
> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
> Access code: 649 235 411
> =20
> Questions for meeting:
> =20
> Submitted by (Eric Wu)
> 1. Redirect-to-Specific-Tunnel with BGP Path Attribute =
[TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] and
>   Redirect-to-IID/GSID, Required by different use cases, can we have =
two docs in IDR In parallel?
>   [Comparison to Redirect-to-IID/GSID , draft-hao will have more =
little modification
>   to existing mechanisms, No need to do Mapping /Recursive Lookup.]
> =20
> 2.  For IID/GSID, one mapping table for
>   all kinds of segments/forwarding-entities vs. one mapping table
>   per segments/forwarding-entities type, should we support both?
> =20
> Chair Questions:=20
> =20
> 1) Does the WG feel we need the following for RFC5575bis (DDoS)
>   a) Redirection to VRF,
>   b) Redirection to Indirection to IP, and =20
>   c) Redirection to Service (new)?
>  =20
> 2) If the WG desires redirection to Service routing, does the WG =
desire
> a) Next-Hop tunnel support? -
> b) Next-Hop TE Tunnel support?
>  c) Nested Tunnel support?
>  d) Next-Next Hop Tunnel Support?
>  e) Router localized Tunnel recursion?
>  f) Tunnel Encap Recursion:
> =20
> 3) What pieces of the proposed solutions have been implemented
>    and/or deployed? =20
> =20
> =20
> Presentations (prerecorded, please review prior to meeting):
> - draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect
>   Gunter Van De Velde
>   21 minutes
>   =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf266=
f =
<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470feddd9bf26=
6f>
> =20
> presentation at:=20
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-inte=
rim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf>
> =20
> =20
> draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid
> Eric Wu=20
> 20 minutes=20
> =20
> Streaming recording link:
> =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb1708a0448=
4 =
<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb1708a044=
84>
> Download recording link:
> =
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb0c9bc713d=
8 =
<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb0c9bc713=
d8>
> =20
> presentation at:=20
> =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-inte=
rim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/slides-int=
erim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf>
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org <mailto:Idr@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>


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Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 created on 14 =
September 2015<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created on 12 =
January 2016<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 created on 17 =
March 2016<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 created on =
21 March 2016<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);">&nbsp;[Reply 01]&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">The idea of =
draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid had initially been =
presented in the IDR Interim Meeting of 2015-10-26:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/sli=
des-interim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf" class=3D"" style=3D"color: =
purple;">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/sl=
ides-interim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">and discussed in IDR mailing =
list:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, =
240);"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html"=
 class=3D"" style=3D"color: =
purple;">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html=
</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, =
240);">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote=
></div><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, =
240);">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote=
></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">GV&gt;</font></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">The suggested =
references document justification discussions around&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming-02.&nbsp;</span></font></div=
><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D"">The reference indicates that draft-vandevelde can use the =
indirection extended community to redirect to a tunnel programmed =
by&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-mpls-path-programming. =
&nbsp;</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">At Oct 26, =
2015, draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 described the =
=E2=80=9Csemantics independent=E2=80=9D solution, but we think it should =
simultaneously add =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D solution. That =
happened before draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 which =
created on 12 January 2016. At that time, we don=E2=80=99t think that a =
separate document is immediately needed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, =
240);">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">After =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created, we notice that =
it did not integrate =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D solution, but =
as per our Research and development team=E2=80=99s opinion, we need the =
=E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect Action solution.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, =
240);">&nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">Then =
=E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect to Generalized Segment ID =
Action documented as draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid. =
Coincidentally, at the same time, draft-vandevelde introduces =E2=80=9CB=E2=
=80=9D bit to map the value encoded in the global administrator field to =
a Binding Segment Identifier =
value.</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>=
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">GV&gt;</span></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">The concept of =
draft-vandevelde to signal a flowspec client using a redirection =
identifier is copied in draft-li without even referencing any version at =
all of&nbsp;draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect. =
Coincidence?</font></div></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;">* Concept of Indirection tables has been =
added (hence adding the capability of context/semantics signalling =
already since version -01)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">[Reply 04]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">Sorry, =
about =E2=80=9Ccontext/semantics signalling already since version =
-01=E2=80=9D, maybe we missed the related description or did not =
understand it correctly, can you show us the text in version -01?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: =
14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">GV&gt;</span></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">Draft-vandevelde =
has a discussion around mapping tables, and has the extended =
community&nbsp;=E2=80=98&nbsp;eserved' bits that can be used to signal =
semantics or tunnel mapping table, and hence the capability is =
available. This capability is used when we actual added redirection to =
SR binding SID.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;">&nbsp;</span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;">Draft-vandevelde has indeed the potential to be used in such a =
manner. The intend of this slide at the time of usage was to show an =
extreme example of the flexiblity the technology offers. When for =
example using redirection to binding-SID (as documented in latest =
draft-vandevelde) then the local mapping table can be based around the =
signalled semantics.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">[Reply 08]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">So =
Draft-vandevelde planned to support two categories of the local mapping =
tables?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, =
240);">1) the local mapping table per device;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">2) the =
local mapping table per service;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">We think that =E2=80=9Csetup the =
mapping tables per service type=E2=80=9D is easier to =
implement.</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D"">GV&gt;</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">This is an interesting =
discussion.&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">draft-vandevelde has the =
capability to optionally couple semantics to a mapping =
table.</font></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">This capability is a powerful =
tool. &nbsp;</span></font><span style=3D"font-size: 14px; font-family: =
Calibri;" class=3D"">Because of this capability currently both (1) and =
(2) are possible with draft-vandevelde.&nbsp;</span></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" style=3D"font-size: 14px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">in=
 addition alternate creative categories could be i.e. : (3) a mapping =
table per flowspec controller or (4) a table per tunnel configuration =
method/controller.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">draft-vandevelde can enforce semantic =
coupling or can permit freedom to an operational user=E2=80=A6 There are =
pro's and con=E2=80=99s for each, and i welcome the WG =
to&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">provide guidance on the operational =
implications to complement draft-vandevelde=E2=80=A6&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">G/</font></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 16 =
May 2016, at 09:20, Zhuangshunwan &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:zhuangshunwan@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">zhuangshunwan@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Gunter,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks for your comments, Please see =
responses inline.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Best &nbsp;Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Shunwan &amp; Eric.Wu<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D"">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=
=BA<span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" =
class=3D"">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"=
 class=3D"">Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE)<br class=3D""></span><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93=
;" class=3D"">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2016</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" =
class=3D"">=E5=B9=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">5</span>=E6=9C=88<span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">13</span>=E6=97=A5<span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>22:56<br =
class=3D""></span><b class=3D"">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">idr@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""></span><b =
class=3D"">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US" =
class=3D"">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Idr] IDR interim on =
May 16th - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica =
Neue', serif;" class=3D"">Pre-liminar comments=E2=80=A6..<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Helvetica Neue', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" class=3D"">Before =
engaging with my feedback and addressing the discussion slides, i would =
like to thank both Sue and John for going through the effort and time to =
try to make the recordings as good as possible and investing non-trivial =
amounts of time to get the job done.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Helvetica Neue', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" class=3D"">I would also =
like to thanks Eric Wu to go through the exercise of recording his =
presentation of the slides. I went through the same exercise and even =
though there were less operational issues to deal with during my =
recording, it is a non-trivial task to speak to a screen and not to an =
audience.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" =
class=3D"">Comments: Working slides discussion of the 16 May 2016 =
Interim IDR meeting:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" =
class=3D"">-------------<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Helvetica Neue', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">Timeline info</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 created on 14 =
September 2015<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"" class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 =
created on 12 January 2016<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"" class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 =
created on 17 March 2016<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid-00 created on =
21 March 2016<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;[Reply 01]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">The idea of =
draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid had initially been =
presented in the IDR Interim Meeting of 2015-10-26:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/sli=
des-interim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/=
slides-interim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">and =
discussed in IDR mailing list:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html"=
 style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.ht=
ml</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">At Oct 26, 2015, =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-00 described the =
=E2=80=9Csemantics independent=E2=80=9D solution, but we think it should =
simultaneously add =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D solution. That =
happened before draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 which =
created on 12 January 2016. At that time, we don=E2=80=99t think that a =
separate document is immediately needed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">After draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-01 created, =
we notice that it did not integrate =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D =
solution, but as per our Research and development team=E2=80=99s =
opinion, we need the =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect =
Action solution.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">Then =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D Redirect to =
Generalized Segment ID Action documented as =
draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid. Coincidentally, at the =
same time, draft-vandevelde introduces =E2=80=9CB=E2=80=9D bit to map =
the value encoded in the global administrator field to a Binding Segment =
Identifier value.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">General slide observations about draft-li-generalised-sid-00 =
(ref. discussion slide for 16 May 2016)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">Draft-li documents a flowspec action using a new community =
(generalized-SID). The extended community provides a flowspec client =
information to make a local forwarding decision by means of a local =
mapping table. The two main components used by the flowspec client is: =
(1) an identifier and (2) semantics.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Draft-vandevelde =
documents a flowspec action using a new community (Indirection-ID). The =
extended community provides a flowspec client information to make a =
local forwarding decision by means of a local mapping table. The two =
main components used by the flowspec client is: (1) an identifier and =
(2) optionally semantics (Table semantics + Tunnel-ID).<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"" =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02&nbsp;was =
created&nbsp;=E2=80=9Cbefore"&nbsp;draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generali=
zed-sid-00 and achieves the same functionality and more. (For example =
draft-vandevelde has the potential to signal 8192 types of semantic =
mapping tables while draft-li has 255, another example is the TID field =
which allows dynamic Next-Next-Hop constructs use for EPE DDoS =
redirection).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">[Reply 02]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">The idea of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif; color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>had i</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">nitially =
been presented in the IDR Interim Meeting of 2015-10-26:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/sli=
des-interim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/26/idr/slides/=
slides-interim-2015-idr-12-8.pdf</span></a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">and =
discussed in IDR mailing list:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.html"=
 style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtgwg/current/msg05195.ht=
ml</span></a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">During WG addoption-call 3/25 to 4/8 the following has been =
mentioned by Ignas:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg15512.html<=
/a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left: =
30pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">"</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Draft-vandevelde can achieve all what draft-hao and draft-li =
can, and in a more flexible way. Having the ability to decouple =
redirection<span style=3D"background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>tunnel type from =
redirection action is both practical and extensible - the actual tunnel =
to be used is a local operational decision for each network element, it =
is not necessary signalled at the same time and by the same mechanism. =
Decoupling signalling and redirect parts aligns well to operational =
practices of using specific tools for specific tasks. Just that BGP =
could do that does not necesasry mean that it should be used as a best =
fit. =46rom operational perspective there is no need to have multiple =
solutions that try to address the narrow problem space in similar yet =
incompatible ways. There should be one document for redirect, and =
draft-vandevelde is a good starting base for that."</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica =
Neue', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[Reply 03]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">As we =
understand</span><span style=3D"font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">=EF=BC=8C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Draft-vandevelde can=E2=80=99=
t achieve what draft-hao can</span><span style=3D"font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=
=BD=93; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">draft-hao =
specifies the specific tunnel from Flowspec Controller and the redirect =
tunnel information is encoded in BGP Path Attribute [TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] =
that is carried in the BGP flow-spec UPDATE.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Comparison =
to draft-vandevelde, draft-hao will have more little modification to =
existing mechanisms, No need to do Mapping /Recursive Lookup.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif; color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">If draft-vandevelde uses more bits to present the type of =
semantic information and use them as type value like draft-li does, not =
=E2=80=9CPer Service Per Bit=E2=80=9D as Binding Bit defines in version =
-02, and support to setup the mapping tables per service type, we think =
that the requirements of draft-li can be addressed.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">Detail view: slide observations draft-li-generalised-sid-00 =
discussion</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Slide 2 (of the draft-li =
presentation): History&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">=3D=3D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">The slide forgets to mention =
that draft-vandevelde was enhanced and progressed based upon =
constructive WG feedback. Much feedback has been integrated between =
draft-vandevelde -00 to =E2=80=9302 BEFORE draft=E2=80=93li even =
existed. For example:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">* Use-case scenario=E2=80=99s =
were added<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">* "Path-id" changed to "Indirection-id"<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">* =
Concept of Indirection tables has been added (hence adding the =
capability of context/semantics signalling already since version =
-01)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">[Reply 04]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Sorry, about =E2=80=9Ccontext/semantics =
signalling already since version -01=E2=80=9D, maybe we missed the =
related description or did not understand it correctly, can you show us =
the text in version -01?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">* Flowspec validation information is added<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">* =
signalling of context/semantics is added by introducing Binding-SID =
context identifier as a first extension of Indirection-id extended =
community.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">It is an incorrect assumption of =
no context awareness in draft-vandevelde. =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect added context support before =
draft-li existed, and raises questions about new elements exposed with =
draft-li compared to draft-vandevelde.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[Reply 05]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Please =
refer to Reply 01.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; background-color: rgb(255, 253, 245);" class=3D"">(fwiw The =
semantic awareness of draft-vandevelde is mentioned and the webex =
recording of draft-li between recording time-stamps 11m30s to =
13m30s)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">Slide 3 (of the draft-li presentation)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">=3D=3D<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">No new capability is explained on this slide in =
comparison with the draft-vandevelde.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">In=
 draft-vandevelde the information found in the indirection-id is used on =
a flowspec client in a local mapping-table (indirection-id table) to =
find local forwarding information. The new flowspec extended community =
as documented by draft-vandevelde can provide already a flowspec client =
the required semantic/context information (example is the =E2=80=98B=E2=80=
=99 bit).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[Reply 06]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Also, =
please refer to Reply 01.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Slide 4 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">=3D=3D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">The goal of draft-li is to =
define a =E2=80=9Csemantics dependent=E2=80=9D action.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">However, draft-vandevelde already allows that functionality =
before draft-li existed<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[Reply 07]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Also, =
please refer to Reply 01.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Slide 5 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">=3D=3D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Draft-vandevelde has indeed the =
potential to be used in such a manner. The intend of this slide at the =
time of usage was to show an extreme example of the flexiblity the =
technology offers. When for example using redirection to binding-SID (as =
documented in latest draft-vandevelde) then the local mapping table can =
be based around the signalled semantics.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">[Reply 08]<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">So Draft-vandevelde planned to support two =
categories of the local mapping tables?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">1) the =
local mapping table per device;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">2) the local mapping table per =
service;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" =
class=3D"">We think that =E2=80=9Csetup the mapping tables per service =
type=E2=80=9D is easier to implement.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Slide 6 (of the draft-li =
presentation)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">=3D=3D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Draft-vandevelde =
has 13 bits available for types, hence the potential to support/signal =
2^13 (=3D8192) types when using the field as scalar value (when =
comparing with a potential for 255 types using draft-li)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">The claim made on =
slide6 that draft-vandevelde allows only 13 type of semantic information =
is wrong assumption.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">[Reply 09]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D"">Sure, if =
draft-vandevelde uses more bits to present the type of semantic =
information and use them as type value like draft-li does, not =E2=80=9CPe=
r Service Per Bit=E2=80=9D as Binding Bit defines in draft-vandevelde =
&nbsp;version -02.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(0, 176, 240);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">At the time of writing, it was =
found useful to signal binding SID useful semantic =E2=80=A6 We decided =
to leave the remaining bits reserved/open for discussion on how to best =
use the field instead.&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">Maybe the WG feels it is best to use only a few bits =
for semantics and keep the remainder reserved for future use.&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">Kind Regards,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">G/<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Friday 13 May 2016 at =
12:46<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>"<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">idr@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>[Idr] IDR interim on =
May 16th - webex, questions for meeting, and recordings.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">The time of the interim is =
22:00-23:00 EDT on May 16<sup class=3D"">th</sup>. &nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">The interim will discuss the =
following two drafts in order to create a WG solution:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
38.35pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: =
-18pt;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Symbol;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">=C2=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, and<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
38.35pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: =
-18pt;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Symbol;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">=C2=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Some of the Questions that will be =
discuss are included below.&nbsp; Please review the pre-recording =
presentations prior to the meeting.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Chairs encourage =
discussion of these questions on the list before, during, and after the =
meeting.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Sue and John<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Agenda=
 for IDR Virtual Interim Meeting</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D""=
 class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">May 16, 2016<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">22:00 - 23:00 EDT<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">WebEx:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be675=
9aee267b" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm9be481d19988dd1b545be=
6759aee267b</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Meeting =
number:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
649 235 411<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Meeting =
password:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Jg66d2pm<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Join by phone<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free =
number (US/Canada)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">1-650-479-3208 =
Call-in toll number (US/Canada)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">Access code: 649 235 411<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">Questions for meeting:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Submitted by (Eric =
Wu)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">1. =
Redirect-to-Specific-Tunnel with BGP Path Attribute [TUNNELENCAPS][MPP] =
and<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;Redirect-to-IID/GSID, Required by different use =
cases, can we have two docs in IDR In parallel?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;[Comparison to =
Redirect-to-IID/GSID , draft-hao will have more little modification<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;to existing mechanisms, =
No need to do Mapping /Recursive Lookup.]<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">2.&nbsp; For IID/GSID, one mapping =
table for<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;all =
kinds of segments/forwarding-entities vs. one mapping table<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;per =
segments/forwarding-entities type, should we support both?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Chair =
Questions:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">1) Does the WG feel we need the =
following for RFC5575bis (DDoS)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; a) Redirection to VRF,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;b) Redirection to =
Indirection to IP, and &nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;c) Redirection to Service (new)?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">2) If the WG desires redirection to =
Service routing, does the WG desire<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">a) Next-Hop tunnel support? -<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">b) Next-Hop TE Tunnel support?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;c) Nested Tunnel support?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;d) Next-Next Hop Tunnel =
Support?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;e) Router =
localized Tunnel recursion?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;f) Tunnel Encap Recursion:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">3) What pieces of the proposed =
solutions have been implemented<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; and/or deployed?&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Presentations =
(prerecorded, please review prior to meeting):</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">- =
draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp; Gunter Van De Velde<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp; 21 minutes<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470fed=
dd9bf266f" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f470=
feddd9bf266f</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">presentation at:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/sli=
des-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/=
slides-interim-2016-idr-5-0.pdf</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Eric Wu<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">20 minutes<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Streaming recording link:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79cb1=
708a04484" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3Dc8615aa845801a1e4b79=
cb1708a04484</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">Download recording =
link:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9cb0=
c9bc713d8" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D4bd504329727d2a811c9=
cb0c9bc713d8</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D"">presentation at:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/sli=
des-interim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/slides/=
slides-interim-2016-idr-5-1.pdf</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
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From: Lucy yong <lucy.yong@huawei.com>
To: "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Presentation recording for draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect, for Monday May 16 interim
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Gunter,

Thank you for the presentation. Some comments:

1) Both your draft and li's draft propose logical flow spec redirect with l=
ocal mapping method, which, I agree, is a good approach for flow spec redir=
ect under centre controller environment.
2) Your draft uses 'bit' to indicate type of tunnel, li's draft uses Code P=
oint to indicate type of tunnel. I think that the latter is better semantic=
s for this.
3) To support nested tunnel, it is good for protocol to support both a same=
 type of tunnel segments and different types of tunnel segments.  Li's draf=
t supports that easily (code point: none).
4) Your solution can support the use cases specified in Section 3.1-3.3 (yo=
ur draft), but does not have a way to bind to a particular use case. It rel=
ies on local mapping, which is a separate process. Li's draft has explicitl=
y binding to type of redirect tunnel.

Regards,
Lucy


From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:51 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] Presentation recording for draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-pat=
h-redirect, for Monday May 16 interim

Hi Everyone,

The recording for Gunter's presentation is available, link below. Please re=
view it before the interim on Monday. I'll send another message when the sl=
ides have been uploaded to the meeting materials site.

As a reminder, we are having presenters record their talks instead of doing=
 them live, as an experiment in dealing with the challenges of virtual inte=
rims across many timezones. This lets us time-shift much of the work, hopef=
ully accommodating people's time zone requirements better. We'll be interes=
ted in your feedback regarding how well (or poorly) it worked, after the Mo=
nday meeting.

And another reminder, if you have questions or comments regarding the prese=
ntation or draft, please consider providing them on the mailing list. There=
 is no need to wait until the interim, although of course if you'd rather d=
o it verbally during the meeting that's OK too.

Regards,

--John


Begin forwarded message:

From: IDR Working Group <messenger@webex.com<mailto:messenger@webex.com>>
Subject: WebEx recording is available for viewing: draft-vandevelde-idr-flo=
wspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1
Date: May 12, 2016 at 11:42:25 AM EDT
To: <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>>
Reply-To: <idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org<mailto:idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org>>

Hello,

IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx recording with you.






draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1

Thursday, May 12, 2016

11:30 am  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)





Play recording<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f660f=
470feddd9bf266f> (21 min)

Recording password: (This recording does not require a password.)





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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gunter,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thank you for the pres=
entation. Some comments:<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">1) Both your draft and=
 li&#8217;s draft propose logical flow spec redirect with local mapping met=
hod, which, I agree, is a good approach for flow spec redirect
 under centre controller environment.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">2) Your draft uses &#8=
216;bit&#8217; to indicate type of tunnel, li&#8217;s draft uses Code Point=
 to indicate type of tunnel. I think that the latter is better semantics fo=
r
 this.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">3) To support nested t=
unnel, it is good for protocol to support both a same type of tunnel segmen=
ts and different types of tunnel segments. &nbsp;Li&#8217;s draft supports
 that easily (code point: none).<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">4) Your solution can s=
upport the use cases specified in Section 3.1-3.3 (your draft), but does no=
t have a way to bind to a particular use case. It relies
 on local mapping, which is a separate process. Li&#8217;s draft has explic=
itly binding to type of redirect tunnel.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Lucy<o:p></o:p></span>=
</i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></i></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [mai=
lto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John G. Scudder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] Presentation recording for draft-vandevelde-idr-flows=
pec-path-redirect, for Monday May 16 interim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The recording for Gunter's presentation is available=
, link below. Please review it before the interim on Monday. I'll send anot=
her message when the slides have been uploaded to the meeting materials sit=
e.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As a reminder, we are having presenters record their=
 talks instead of doing them live, as an experiment in dealing with the cha=
llenges of virtual interims across many timezones. This lets us time-shift =
much of the work, hopefully accommodating
 people's time zone requirements better. We'll be interested in your feedba=
ck regarding how well (or poorly) it worked, after the Monday meeting.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And another reminder, if you have questions or comme=
nts regarding the presentation or draft, please consider providing them on =
the mailing list. There is no need to wait until the interim, although of c=
ourse if you'd rather do it verbally
 during the meeting that's OK too.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Begin forwarded message:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&q=
uot;">From: </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot=
;">IDR Working Group &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:messenger@webex.com">messenger@w=
ebex.com</a>&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&q=
uot;">Subject: WebEx recording is available for viewing: draft-vandevelde-i=
dr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&q=
uot;">Date: </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot=
;">May 12, 2016 at 11:42:25 AM EDT</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&q=
uot;">To: </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&q=
uot;">Reply-To: </span>
</b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org">idr-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" align=3D"lef=
t" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%;border-spacing: 0px;max-width: 525p=
x !important;min-width: 279px !important;orphans: auto;widows: auto;-webkit=
-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:3.75pt 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" align=3D"lef=
t" style=3D"margin-left:3.75pt;word-wrap: break-word">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;border-spacing: 0px;max=
-width: 525px !important;min-width: 279px !important">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"wor=
d-wrap: break-word">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;border-spacing: 0px;max-width: 525px !=
important;min-width: 279px !important">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#4D4D4D">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:7.5pt 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#4D4D4D">IDR Working Group wants to share this WebEx record=
ing with you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666;display:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"bor=
der-spacing: 0px;max-width: 525px !important;min-width: 279px !important">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"height:15.0pt">
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:15.0pt;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666;display:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%;border-spacing: 0px;max-width: 525px !important;mi=
n-width: 279px !important">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#4D4D4D">draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-20160512 1502-1</spa=
n></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;c=
olor:#4D4D4D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666">Thursday, May 12, 2016<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666">11:30 am&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;Eastern Daylight =
Time (New York, GMT-04:00)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666;display:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"bor=
der-spacing: 0px;max-width: 525px !important;min-width: 279px !important">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"height:15.0pt">
<td style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:15.0pt;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666;display:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"bor=
der-spacing: 0px;max-width: 525px !important;min-width: 279px !important">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;word-wrap: break-word">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt;mso-element:frame;mso-el=
ement-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertic=
al:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#=
00AFF9"><a href=3D"https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3De01d62661085f=
660f470feddd9bf266f"><b><span style=3D"color:#00AFF9;text-decoration:none">=
Play recording</span></b></a></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:#666666">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#666666">(21
 min)</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#00AFF9"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
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<tr>
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<span style=3D"font-size:11.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#666666">Recording password: (This recording does not requi=
re a password.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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--_000_2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D5728A8D4dfweml501mbb_--


From nobody Mon May 16 17:02:26 2016
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To: "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>
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On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:50:36AM -0400, John G. Scudder wrote:
> The recording for Gunter's presentation is available, link below. Please review it before the interim on Monday. I'll send another message when the slides have been uploaded to the meeting materials site.

Having listened to the pre-recorded presentation, I'd like to support their
use for future virtual interims.  I think this was very useful.

The remainder of my comments are probably most appropriate for the
discussion portion of the interim.

-- Jeff


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------=_NextPart_000_0017_01D1AFCA.A8B824F0
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IDR Wg: 

 

Thank you to all the people who attended to the late night tonight. 

 

The minute are online at 

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/minutes/minutes-inte
rim-2016-idr-5

 

The discussion was extremely helpful on discussing these two drafts.  

 

Thank you to all who participated, 

 

Sue and John 

 

Recording: 

 

Fowspec tunnel redirection-20160517 0209-1

Create time:

5/16/16 11:13 pm

File size:

33.06MB

Duration:

1 hour 1 minute

Security:

Description:

Streaming recording link:

 <https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=18809569d575428db56252b203bb1058>
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=18809569d575428db56252b203bb1058

Download recording link:

 <https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=0d29b7628bb39b1b2a3904df09daf369>
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=0d29b7628bb39b1b2a3904df09daf369

Play Recorded Meeting Now

 


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<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you to all the people who attended to the late =
night tonight. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The minute =
are online at <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/05/16/idr/minutes/m=
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05/16/idr/minutes/minutes-interim-2016-idr-5</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
discussion was extremely helpful on discussing these two drafts.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you to all who participated, <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue and John =
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From nobody Tue May 17 05:27:10 2016
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for L2 VPN
        Authors         : Weiguo Hao
                          Qiandeng Liang
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Shunwan Zhuang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-04.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2016-05-17

Abstract:
   This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Ethernet traffic
   filtering in L2 VPN network. SAFI=134 in [RFC5575] is redefined for
   dissemination traffic filtering information in an L2VPN environment.
   A new subset of component types and extended community also are
   defined.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-04

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for NVO3
        Authors         : Weiguo Hao
                          Shunwan Zhuang
                          Zhenbin Li
                          Rong Gu
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-nvo3-00.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2016-05-17

Abstract:
   This draft proposes a new subset of component types to support the
   NVO3 flow-spec application.


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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
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From: <thomas.morin@orange.com>
Organization: Orange
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Hi John,

John.
> When the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did not carry 
> forward the RFC 5512 extended community and it did not propose to 
> obsolete RFC 5512.  There was discussion of using the attribute 
> defined in the tunnel encaps draft instead of the extended community 
> and we decided to continue to use the extended community.  So, in that 
> sense we are misaligned with the tunnel encaps draft.

As you confirm below, the last sentence is only true in the past tense.

> Subsequently, however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to carry 
> forward the extended community and to obsolete RFC 5512, so we were 
> effectively covered by a grandfather clause.
>

Yes, precisely: given the content of the two drafts, there is no 
misalignment anymore.

> Given the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s acceptable 
> and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.
>

I do not think that the additional publication delay is a sound 
rationale for normatively refer to a spec that is known to become obsolete.
If it helps, the draft can keep an informative ref to RFC5512 and remind 
that it does not rely on anything specifically introduced by 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not existing already in RFC5512.

-Thomas


2016-05-06, John E Drake:
>
> However, even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the tunnel encaps 
> draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue with doing this, viz, the 
> overlay draft makes a normative reference to RFC 5512.  If we change 
> the normative reference to the tunnel encaps draft we cannot publish 
> the overlay draft until after the tunnel encaps draft has been published.
>
> Given the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s acceptable 
> and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.
>
> Yours Irrespectively,
>
> John
>
> *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM
> *To:* IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Ali 
> Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org; John E Drake
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were 
> fine with having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead 
> of RFC5512, with the fact that you consider (below) the two docs "not 
> aligned" for unicast.
>
> Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?
>
> -Thomas
>
> ---- John E Drake a écrit ----
>
> Thomas,
>
> The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was designed 
> to handle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to 
> the VXLAN data plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it 
> is internally consistent.
>
> The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG 
> decided a long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be 
> updated to use the mechanisms it details for unicast, so the overlay 
> draft is already explicitly not in alignment with it.
>
> This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts the 
> PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay draft 
> should not be tweaked to be in alignment with a future solution for 
> encoding VNIs for multicast.
>
> Yours Irrespectively,
>
> John
>
> *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> 
> [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
> *To:* John E Drake; IDR; BESS; 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi 
> (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
> Thanks for the clarification on the intent around 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed section 9 needs some tidying 
> up.
>
> The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to 
> explain how to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to 
> E-VPN and in a way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
>
> It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the 
> place, but that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
>
> Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?
>
> -Thomas
>
>
> ---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a écrit ----
>
> Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make myself 
> clear. Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
>
> Thanks,
> Jorge
>
> _____________________________
> From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
> Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
> To: IDR <idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi (sajassi) 
> <sajassi@cisco.com <mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia 
> - US) <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com 
> <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <bess@ietf.org 
> <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>, <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT - 
> thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> 
> <thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>
>
>
> Jorge,
>
> We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute for 
> all service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field 
> following the rules for each service type as described in 5.1.3 
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).
>
> You're right that we need to clean up section 9.
>
> Yours Irrespectively,
>
> John
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
> > To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com 
> <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
> > overlay@tools.ietf.org <mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi 
> (sajassi)
> > Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > About this:
> >
> > [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI 
> attribute. I think we need
> > to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI 
> attribute to carry the VNI
> >
> >
> > In case it helps, I’ve seen a few implementations running and they 
> all encode the VNI in the
> > MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the VNI in 
> the ethernet-tag, in
> > addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think section 
> 9 contradicts section 5.1.3
> > and should be clarified.
> >
> > "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> > <snip>
> > the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, 
> and **Inclusive
> > Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Jorge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net 
> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>> wrote:
> >
> > >Thomas and Jorge,
> > >
> > >Snipped, comments inline.
> > >
> > >Yours Irrespectively,
> > >
> > >John
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
> > >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
> > >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet
> > >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
> > >>
> > >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version where the
> > >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI
> > >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This has 
> to be corrected.
> > >>
> > >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
> > >>
> > >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
> > >>
> > >> <snip>
> > >>
> > >> Accordingly, and
> > >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS
> > >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
> > >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or
> > >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
> > >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
> > >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-
> > >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
> > >>
> > >> <snip>
> > >
> > >
> > >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the PMSI 
> attribute. I think we
> > need to ask everyone whether they
> > >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
> > >
> > >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
> > >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
> > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
> > >> >>
> > >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate RFC5512, it
> > >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
> > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
> > >>
> > >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the
> > >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
> > >> using this community and it is enough when only the encapsulation 
> type is needed.
> > >
> > >
> > >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of encap
> > >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
> > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
> > >>
> > >> [JORGE] I agree.
> > >
> > >
> > >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
> > >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not yet 
> incorporated:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
> > >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
> > >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured
> > >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> With the following:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
> > >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
> > >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and
> > >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only supports
> > >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any encapsulation
> > >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended community
> > >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically
> > >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated, although
> > >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
> > >> >> tunnel types is removed.
> > >
> > >
> > >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
> > >
> > >
>


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi John,<br>
      <br>
      John.<br>
      <blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When
          the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did not carry
          forward the RFC 5512 extended community and it did not propose
          to obsolete RFC 5512.  There was discussion of using the
          attribute defined in the tunnel encaps draft instead of the
          extended community and we decided to continue to use the
          extended community.  So, in that sense we are misaligned with
          the tunnel encaps draft.<o:p></o:p></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>
            <br>
          </o:p></span></blockquote>
      <br>
      As you confirm below, the last sentence is only true in the past
      tense.<br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Subsequently,
            however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to carry forward
            the extended community and to obsolete RFC 5512, so we were
            effectively covered by a grandfather clause.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></blockquote>
      <br>
      Yes, precisely: given the content of the two drafts, there is no
      misalignment anymore.<br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given
            the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
            acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC
            5512.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      I do not think that the additional publication delay is a sound
      rationale for normatively refer to a spec that is known to become
      obsolete.<br>
      If it helps, the draft can keep an informative ref to RFC5512 and
      remind that it does not rely on anything specifically introduced
      by draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not existing already in
      RFC5512.<br>
      <br>
      -Thomas<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      2016-05-06, John E Drake:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:SN1PR0501MB170976E947BEABC8FD591ED8C77C0@SN1PR0501MB1709.namprd05.prod.outlook.com"
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      <div class="WordSection1"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">However,
            even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the tunnel encaps
            draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue with doing this,
            viz, the overlay draft makes a normative reference to RFC
            5512.  If we change the normative reference to the tunnel
            encaps draft we cannot publish the overlay draft until after
            the tunnel encaps draft has been published.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given
            the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
            acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC
            5512.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours
              Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> IDR; BESS;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali
                  Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a>; John E
                  Drake<br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
                  vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi John, <br>
            <br>
            I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday
            you were fine with having bess-evpn-overlay refer to
            idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, with the fact that you
            consider (below) the two docs "not aligned" for unicast.<br>
            <br>
            Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies? <br>
            <br>
            -Thomas<br>
            <br>
            ---- John E Drake a écrit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                  overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it
                  was designed to handle a very specific problem,
                  marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN data
                  plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9 it
                  is internally consistent.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                  tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and
                  the WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draft
                  was not going to be updated to use the mechanisms it
                  details for unicast, so the overlay draft is already
                  explicitly not in alignment with it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This,
                  plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly
                  puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclusion
                  that the overlay draft should not be tweaked to be in
                  alignment with a future solution for encoding VNIs for
                  multicast. </span>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours
                    Irrespectively,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                        [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                        <br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a></a>;
                        Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia -
                        US);
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr]
                        draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                        draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks
                  for the clarification on the intent around
                  draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed section 9
                  needs some tidying up.
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  The issue that I think remain is that it would be much
                  cleaner to explain how to use PMSI with overlay encaps
                  in a spec not specific to E-VPN and in a way more
                  consistent to what is done for unicast.
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap
                  should be the place, but that document currently
                  explicitly makes PMSIs out of scope.
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be
                  revisited ? <br>
                  <br>
                  -Thomas<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  ---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a écrit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div id="compose">
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully
                        agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I
                        didn't make myself clear. Section 9 needs clean
                        up, yes.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
                          Jorge<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________________<br>
                      From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a></a>&gt;<br>
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
                      Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
                      vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
                      To: IDR &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                      Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:sajassi@cisco.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a></a>&gt;,
                      Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a></a>&gt;,
                      BESS &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                      &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                      EXT -
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                      &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Jorge,<br>
                      <br>
                      We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of
                      the PMSI attribute for all service types, and we
                      put a value in the Ethernet Tag field following
                      the rules for each service type as described in
                      5.1.3 (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
                      <br>
                      You're right that we need to clean up section 9.<br>
                      <br>
                      Yours Irrespectively,<br>
                      <br>
                      John<br>
                      <br>
                      &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                      &gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a></a>]<br>
                      &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
                      &gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a></a>;
                      BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
                      &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                      Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
                      &gt; Subject: Re: [Idr]
                      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; Hi John,<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; About this:<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field
                      is carried in the PMSI attribute. I think we need<br>
                      &gt; to ask everyone whether they used the
                      Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the
                      VNI<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; In case it helps, I’ve seen a few
                      implementations running and they all encode the
                      VNI in the<br>
                      &gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of
                      them, encode the VNI in the ethernet-tag, in<br>
                      &gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any
                      case, I think section 9 contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
                      &gt; and should be clarified.<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
                      &gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                      &gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC
                      Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
                      **Inclusive<br>
                      &gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to
                      carry the VNI or VSID."<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; Thanks.<br>
                      &gt; Jorge<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" &lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a></a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                      &gt; <br>
                      &gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;John<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
                      (see section 9) relies on the BGP<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to encode
                      the tunnel encap to use for BUM<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to other
                      E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to encode
                      the VNI/VSID.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover
                      from an old version where the<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet
                      tag for all the routes. The VNI<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label field
                      in all the routes. This has to be corrected.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the option
                      of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC
                      Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag
                      routes is used to carry the VNI or<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this memo,
                      the MPLS label field will be<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID field.
                      The VNI/VSID field is used for<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global VNIs/VSIDs,
                      and for either case the entire 24-<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the
                      VNI/VSID value.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label
                      field is carried in the PMSI attribute. I think we<br>
                      &gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
                      &gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI
                      attribute to carry the VNI<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things that
                      could be improved in<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate
                      RFC5512, it<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that
                      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to
                      RFC5512.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended community.
                      There are a few implementations<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is
                      enough when only the encapsulation type is needed.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft
                      does keep the EC<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be
                      better to avoid the explicit list of encap<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3, and
                      rather refer to<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the
                      five tunnels types to the<br>
                      &gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to keep
                      them<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor
                      modification was proposed, but not yet
                      incorporated:<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to
                      BESS ML):<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay draft,
                      replace this text in section 5.1.3:<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; "If the BGP
                      Encapsulation extended community is not present,<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default MPLS
                      encapsulation or a statically configured<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is
                      assumed."<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; "Note that the MPLS
                      encapsulation tunnel type is needed in<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to distinguish
                      between an advertising node that only<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS
                      encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS
                      encapsulations. An advertising node that only
                      supports<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation does
                      not need to advertise any encapsulation<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e., if
                      the BGP Encapsulation extended community<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present, then
                      either MPLS encapsulation or a statically<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured
                      encapsulation is assumed."<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is
                      useful and should be incorporated, although<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last sentence
                      would be wise if the full list of<br>
                      &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is removed.<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the
                      last sentence<br>
                      &gt; &gt;<br>
                      &gt; &gt;</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/A35q9HuDztcvwDf-Hx7C5ddRXCg>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
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From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
Organization: Orange
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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John,

2016-05-18, John E Drake:
> I spoke with Ali and he will reference the tunnel encapsulation draft 
> rather than RFC 5512 but make it Informative.
> I think this is in the spirit of what you proposed in your email, below.

Well, only for some definition of "in the spirit"... :-/

What I think we should do is normatively refer to 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and informatively refer to RFC5512, not the 
reverse.
Or else we end up with an RFC that soon after publication will 
normatively depend to an obsoleted RFC.

-Thomas


> *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:19 AM
> *To:* John E Drake; IDR; BESS; 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); 
> Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
> Hi John,
>
> John.
>
>     When the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did not carry
>     forward the RFC 5512 extended community and it did not propose to
>     obsolete RFC 5512.  There was discussion of using the attribute
>     defined in the tunnel encaps draft instead of the extended
>     community and we decided to continue to use the extended
>     community.  So, in that sense we are misaligned with the tunnel
>     encaps draft.
>
>
> As you confirm below, the last sentence is only true in the past tense.
>
>
>     Subsequently, however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to carry
>     forward the extended community and to obsolete RFC 5512, so we
>     were effectively covered by a grandfather clause.
>
>
> Yes, precisely: given the content of the two drafts, there is no 
> misalignment anymore.
>
>
>     Given the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
>     acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.
>
>
> I do not think that the additional publication delay is a sound 
> rationale for normatively refer to a spec that is known to become 
> obsolete.
> If it helps, the draft can keep an informative ref to RFC5512 and 
> remind that it does not rely on anything specifically introduced by 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not existing already in RFC5512.
>
> -Thomas
>
>
> 2016-05-06, John E Drake:
>
>     However, even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the tunnel
>     encaps draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue with doing this,
>     viz, the overlay draft makes a normative reference to RFC 5512. 
>     If we change the normative reference to the tunnel encaps draft we
>     cannot publish the overlay draft until after the tunnel encaps
>     draft has been published.
>
>     Given the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
>     acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.
>
>     Yours Irrespectively,
>
>     John
>
>     *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>
>     [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM
>     *To:* IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi
>     (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>; John E Drake
>     *Subject:* RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
>     Hi John,
>
>     I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you were
>     fine with having bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap
>     instead of RFC5512, with the fact that you consider (below) the
>     two docs "not aligned" for unicast.
>
>     Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?
>
>     -Thomas
>
>     ---- John E Drake a écrit ----
>
>     Thomas,
>
>     The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was
>     designed to handle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN
>     control plane to the VXLAN data plane draft and modulo the
>     correction to section 9 it is internally consistent.
>
>     The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the WG
>     decided a long time ago that the overlay draft was not going to be
>     updated to use the mechanisms it details for unicast, so the
>     overlay draft is already explicitly not in alignment with it.
>
>     This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly puts
>     the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclusion that the overlay
>     draft should not be tweaked to be in alignment with a future
>     solution for encoding VNIs for multicast.
>
>     Yours Irrespectively,
>
>     John
>
>     *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>
>     [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
>     *To:* John E Drake; IDR; BESS;
>     draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi
>     (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
>     Thanks for the clarification on the intent around
>     draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed section 9 needs some
>     tidying up.
>
>     The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner to
>     explain how to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not specific
>     to E-VPN and in a way more consistent to what is done for unicast.
>
>     It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the
>     place, but that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs out of
>     scope.
>
>     Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?
>
>     -Thomas
>
>
>     ---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a écrit ----
>
>     Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make
>     myself clear. Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Jorge
>
>     _____________________________
>     From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
>     Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>     To: IDR <idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi
>     (sajassi) <sajassi@cisco.com <mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>, Rabadan,
>     Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>     <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS <bess@ietf.org
>     <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>,
>     <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT -
>     thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>
>     <thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>
>
>
>     Jorge,
>
>     We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI attribute
>     for all service types, and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag
>     field following the rules for each service type as described in
>     5.1.3
>     (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).
>
>     You're right that we need to clean up section 9.
>
>     Yours Irrespectively,
>
>     John
>
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
>     > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
>     > To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com
>     <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
>     > overlay@tools.ietf.org <mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali
>     Sajassi (sajassi)
>     > Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>     >
>     > Hi John,
>     >
>     > About this:
>     >
>     > [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the
>     PMSI attribute. I think we need
>     > to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI
>     attribute to carry the VNI
>     >
>     >
>     > In case it helps, I’ve seen a few implementations running and
>     they all encode the VNI in the
>     > MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode the
>     VNI in the ethernet-tag, in
>     > addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think
>     section 9 contradicts section 5.1.3
>     > and should be clarified.
>     >
>     > "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
>     > <snip>
>     > the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per
>     EVI, and **Inclusive
>     > Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or VSID."
>     >
>     > Thanks.
>     > Jorge
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>> wrote:
>     >
>     > >Thomas and Jorge,
>     > >
>     > >Snipped, comments inline.
>     > >
>     > >Yours Irrespectively,
>     > >
>     > >John
>     > >
>     > >> >
>     > >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on the BGP
>     > >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM
>     > >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on the
>     Ethernet
>     > >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
>     > >>
>     > >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version
>     where the
>     > >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the routes.
>     The VNI
>     > >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes. This
>     has to be corrected.
>     > >>
>     > >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
>     > >>
>     > >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
>     > >>
>     > >> <snip>
>     > >>
>     > >> Accordingly, and
>     > >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned VNIs,
>     the MPLS
>     > >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
>     > >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry the
>     VNI or
>     > >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field will be
>     > >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is used for
>     > >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the
>     entire 24-
>     > >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
>     > >>
>     > >> <snip>
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in the
>     PMSI attribute. I think we
>     > need to ask everyone whether they
>     > >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >> >>
>     > >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
>     > >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
>     > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
>     > >> >>
>     > >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate
>     RFC5512, it
>     > >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to
>     > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
>     > >>
>     > >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>     keeps the
>     > >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few implementations
>     > >> using this community and it is enough when only the
>     encapsulation type is needed.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >>
>     > >> >>
>     > >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit list of
>     encap
>     > >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
>     > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
>     > >>
>     > >> [JORGE] I agree.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types to the
>     > >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >>
>     > >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but not
>     yet incorporated:
>     > >> >>
>     > >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
>     > >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:
>     > >> >>>
>     > >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not present,
>     > >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically
>     configured
>     > >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
>     > >> >>>
>     > >> >>> With the following:
>     > >> >>>
>     > >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed in
>     > >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that only
>     > >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that supports
>     MPLS and
>     > >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that only
>     supports
>     > >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any
>     encapsulation
>     > >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended
>     community
>     > >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a
>     statically
>     > >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
>     > >> >>
>     > >> >> I think this change is useful and should be incorporated,
>     although
>     > >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full list of
>     > >> >> tunnel types is removed.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
>     > >
>     > >
>


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">John,<br>
      <br>
      2016-05-18, John E Drake:<br>
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      <div class="WordSection1"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
          spoke with Ali and he will reference the tunnel encapsulation
          draft rather than RFC 5512 but make it Informative.</span></div>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:SN1PR0501MB17090A6F0AC5D3D447E21C28C7490@SN1PR0501MB1709.namprd05.prod.outlook.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
          think this is in the spirit of what you proposed in your
          email, below.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Well, only for some definition of "in the spirit"... :-/<br>
    <br>
    What I think we should do is normatively refer to
    draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and informatively refer to RFC5512, not
    the reverse.<br>
    Or else we end up with an RFC that soon after publication will
    normatively depend to an obsoleted RFC.<br>
    <br>
    -Thomas<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:SN1PR0501MB17090A6F0AC5D3D447E21C28C7490@SN1PR0501MB1709.namprd05.prod.outlook.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:19 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali
                  Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
                  vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,<br>
              <br>
              John.<br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When
                  the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did not
                  carry forward the RFC 5512 extended community and it
                  did not propose to obsolete RFC 5512.  There was
                  discussion of using the attribute defined in the
                  tunnel encaps draft instead of the extended community
                  and we decided to continue to use the extended
                  community.  So, in that sense we are misaligned with
                  the tunnel encaps draft.
                  <br>
                  <br>
                </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              As you confirm below, the last sentence is only true in
              the past tense.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Subsequently,
                  however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to carry
                  forward the extended community and to obsolete RFC
                  5512, so we were effectively covered by a grandfather
                  clause.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              Yes, precisely: given the content of the two drafts, there
              is no misalignment anymore.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given
                  the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
                  acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to
                  RFC 5512.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              I do not think that the additional publication delay is a
              sound rationale for normatively refer to a spec that is
              known to become obsolete.<br>
              If it helps, the draft can keep an informative ref to
              RFC5512 and remind that it does not rely on anything
              specifically introduced by draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
              and not existing already in RFC5512.<br>
              <br>
              -Thomas<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              2016-05-06, John E Drake:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">However,
                even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the tunnel
                encaps draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue with
                doing this, viz, the overlay draft makes a normative
                reference to RFC 5512.  If we change the normative
                reference to the tunnel encaps draft we cannot publish
                the overlay draft until after the tunnel encaps draft
                has been published.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given
                the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
                acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC
                5512.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours
                  Irrespectively,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
              1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
              <div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                  1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                      [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> IDR; BESS; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">
                        draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                      Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia -
                      US);
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                      John E Drake<br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr]
                      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi John,
                <br>
                <br>
                I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that
                yesterday you were fine with having bess-evpn-overlay
                refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, with the
                fact that you consider (below) the two docs "not
                aligned" for unicast.<br>
                <br>
                Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment"
                lies? <br>
                <br>
                -Thomas<br>
                <br>
                ---- John E Drake a écrit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                      overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and
                      it was designed to handle a very specific problem,
                      marrying the EVPN control plane to the VXLAN data
                      plane draft and modulo the correction to section 9
                      it is internally consistent.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                      tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem
                      and the WG decided a long time ago that the
                      overlay draft was not going to be updated to use
                      the mechanisms it details for unicast, so the
                      overlay draft is already explicitly not in
                      alignment with it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This,
                      plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft
                      explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to
                      the conclusion that the overlay draft should not
                      be tweaked to be in alignment with a future
                      solution for encoding VNIs for multicast. </span>
                    <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours
                        Irrespectively,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                    1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                            [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                            <br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a></a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi);
                            Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr]
                            draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                            draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks
                      for the clarification on the intent around
                      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed section
                      9 needs some tidying up.
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      The issue that I think remain is that it would be
                      much cleaner to explain how to use PMSI with
                      overlay encaps in a spec not specific to E-VPN and
                      in a way more consistent to what is done for
                      unicast.
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      It seems if course that
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the place,
                      but that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs
                      out of scope.
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap
                      be revisited ? <br>
                      <br>
                      -Thomas<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      ---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a écrit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div id="compose">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree
                            John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't
                            make myself clear. Section 9 needs clean up,
                            yes.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
                              Jorge<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________________<br>
                          From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a></a>&gt;<br>
                          Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
                          Subject: RE: [Idr]
                          draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
                          To: IDR &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                          Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:sajassi@cisco.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a></a>&gt;,
                          Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a></a>&gt;,
                          BESS &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                          &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                          EXT -
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                          &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          Jorge,<br>
                          <br>
                          We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field
                          of the PMSI attribute for all service types,
                          and we put a value in the Ethernet Tag field
                          following the rules for each service type as
                          described in 5.1.3 (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a>).<br>
                          <br>
                          You're right that we need to clean up section
                          9.<br>
                          <br>
                          Yours Irrespectively,<br>
                          <br>
                          John<br>
                          <br>
                          &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                          &gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a></a>]<br>
                          &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
                          &gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a></a>;
                          BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
                          &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                          Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
                          &gt; Subject: Re: [Idr]
                          draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Hi John,<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; About this:<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label
                          field is carried in the PMSI attribute. I
                          think we need<br>
                          &gt; to ask everyone whether they used the
                          Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry
                          the VNI<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; In case it helps, I’ve seen a few
                          implementations running and they all encode
                          the VNI in the<br>
                          &gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple
                          of them, encode the VNI in the ethernet-tag,
                          in<br>
                          &gt; addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In
                          any case, I think section 9 contradicts
                          section 5.1.3<br>
                          &gt; and should be clarified.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
                          &gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                          &gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC
                          Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
                          **Inclusive<br>
                          &gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used
                          to carry the VNI or VSID."<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Thanks.<br>
                          &gt; Jorge<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake"
                          &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;John<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
                          (see section 9) relies on the BGP<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended to
                          encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to
                          other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to
                          encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a
                          leftover from an old version where the<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the
                          ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the Label
                          field in all the routes. This has to be
                          corrected.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP
                          Routes<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the
                          option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC
                          Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag
                          routes is used to carry the VNI or<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of this
                          memo, the MPLS label field will be<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID
                          field. The VNI/VSID field is used for<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global
                          VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire 24-<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode the
                          VNI/VSID value.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS
                          label field is carried in the PMSI attribute.
                          I think we<br>
                          &gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
                          &gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI
                          attribute to carry the VNI<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor things
                          that could be improved in<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                          draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency
                          with<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate
                          RFC5512, it<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better that
                          draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers to<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore
                          to RFC5512.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended
                          community. There are a few implementations<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it is
                          enough when only the encapsulation type is
                          needed.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps
                          draft does keep the EC<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would be
                          better to avoid the explicit list of encap<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section 5.1.3,
                          and rather refer to<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it allocated
                          the five tunnels types to the<br>
                          &gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need to
                          keep them<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following minor
                          modification was proposed, but not yet
                          incorporated:<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake, 2015-11-13
                          (to BESS ML):<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay
                          draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; "If the BGP
                          Encapsulation extended community is not
                          present,<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the default
                          MPLS encapsulation or a statically configured<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation is
                          assumed."<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the following:<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; "Note that the MPLS
                          encapsulation tunnel type is needed in<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to
                          distinguish between an advertising node that
                          only<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports non-MPLS
                          encapsulations and one that supports MPLS and<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS
                          encapsulations. An advertising node that only
                          supports<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS encapsulation
                          does not need to advertise any encapsulation<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types; i.e.,
                          if the BGP Encapsulation extended community<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present,
                          then either MPLS encapsulation or a statically<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured
                          encapsulation is assumed."<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change is
                          useful and should be incorporated, although<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last
                          sentence would be wise if the full list of<br>
                          &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is
                          removed.<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o
                          the last sentence<br>
                          &gt; &gt;<br>
                          &gt; &gt;</p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: [Idr] Adopting redirect draft
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Dear WG,

Thanks for all your engagement on this topic, most recently at Monday's =
meeting. The chairs have determined that we have WG consensus to adopt =
the work. There also appeared to be consensus to use the approach of a =
type field as in draft-li-idr-flowspec-redirect-generalized-sid rather =
than a bit as in draft-vandevelde-idr-flowspec-path-redirect.

We have asked the authors to work on a merged draft, and expect to use =
that as the basis for an upcoming WG document.

Thanks,

--John and Sue=


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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
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From: Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>
Organization: Orange
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Cc: Adrian Farrel <afarrel@juniper.net>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Hi John,

[with a question to IDR chairs and  draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps authors 
below]

2016-05-18, John E Drake:
 > Unless and until Eric’s draft is published the normative reference is 
to RFC 5512 and neither you nor anyone else knows when or if
 > Eric’s draft will be published as an RFC and I think it is a serious 
breach of procedure to hold up the overlay draft by asserting you
 > know what the future portends.

Oh, oh, Big Words  :-D
(can you hear the faint murmur of lawyers in the background, impatient 
to enter the procedural battle ?)

Talking about "holding up" the draft could give the wrong impression 
that apart from this question, the draft is ready.
 From a strict procedural standpoint, if we set aside that it has been 
'expired' for 4 weeks, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay is in the same state 
as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, and noone knows its future for sure either.

And talking about "holding up" the draft could give the wrong impression 
on the kind of input I am providing, that merely relate to producing 
specs not only clear for its authors but to a larger audience. In that 
respect, if we can avoid a short term future where the draft would point 
to an obsolete spec, I think it will be better. Hence, having a 
normative reference to draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps seems better.

IDR chairs and draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps authors, do you know when we 
should expect a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps ?
Progressing it quickly will help clarify all that.

If too far or too much unknown around the progress of 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, I can certainly live with 
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refer to RFC5512 normatively and to 
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps informatively, and have text explicitly 
state where things stand.  But's let's not rush, and remember that 
implementers care more about spec stability than knowing what the exact 
RFC number will be.

 > This is not the first time an RFC made a normative reference to an 
RFC that subsequently was obsoleted and the RFC system deals
 > quite nicely with this situation.

Of course we can deal with less-than-ideal... it doesn't mean we can't 
anticipate and do better.

-Thomas



> *From:*Thomas Morin [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2016 10:23 AM
> *To:* John E Drake; IDR; BESS; 
> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Ali Sajassi (sajassi); 
> Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
> John,
>
> 2016-05-18, John E Drake:
>
>     I spoke with Ali and he will reference the tunnel encapsulation
>     draft rather than RFC 5512 but make it Informative.
>
>     I think this is in the spirit of what you proposed in your email,
>     below.
>
>
> Well, only for some definition of "in the spirit"... :-/
>
> What I think we should do is normatively refer to 
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and informatively refer to RFC5512, not 
> the reverse.
> Or else we end up with an RFC that soon after publication will 
> normatively depend to an obsoleted RFC.
>
> -Thomas
>
>
>
>     *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>
>     [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:19 AM
>     *To:* John E Drake; IDR; BESS;
>     draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali Sajassi
>     (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>     draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
>     Hi John,
>
>     John.
>
>
>         When the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did not
>         carry forward the RFC 5512 extended community and it did not
>         propose to obsolete RFC 5512. There was discussion of using
>         the attribute defined in the tunnel encaps draft instead of
>         the extended community and we decided to continue to use the
>         extended community.  So, in that sense we are misaligned with
>         the tunnel encaps draft.
>
>
>
>     As you confirm below, the last sentence is only true in the past
>     tense.
>
>
>
>         Subsequently, however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to
>         carry forward the extended community and to obsolete RFC 5512,
>         so we were effectively covered by a grandfather clause.
>
>
>     Yes, precisely: given the content of the two drafts, there is no
>     misalignment anymore.
>
>
>
>         Given the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
>         acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.
>
>
>     I do not think that the additional publication delay is a sound
>     rationale for normatively refer to a spec that is known to become
>     obsolete.
>     If it helps, the draft can keep an informative ref to RFC5512 and
>     remind that it does not rely on anything specifically introduced
>     by draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not existing already in RFC5512.
>
>     -Thomas
>
>
>     2016-05-06, John E Drake:
>
>         However, even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the tunnel
>         encaps draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an issue with doing
>         this, viz, the overlay draft makes a normative reference to
>         RFC 5512.  If we change the normative reference to the tunnel
>         encaps draft we cannot publish the overlay draft until after
>         the tunnel encaps draft has been published.
>
>         Given the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
>         acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to RFC 5512.
>
>         Yours Irrespectively,
>
>         John
>
>         *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com
>         <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
>         *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM
>         *To:* IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali
>         Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
>         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>; John E Drake
>         *Subject:* RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
>         Hi John,
>
>         I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that yesterday you
>         were fine with having bess-evpn-overlay refer to
>         idr-tunnel-encap instead of RFC5512, with the fact that you
>         consider (below) the two docs "not aligned" for unicast.
>
>         Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment" lies?
>
>         -Thomas
>
>         ---- John E Drake a écrit ----
>
>         Thomas,
>
>         The overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft and it was
>         designed to handle a very specific problem, marrying the EVPN
>         control plane to the VXLAN data plane draft and modulo the
>         correction to section 9 it is internally consistent.
>
>         The tunnel encaps draft solves a more general problem and the
>         WG decided a long time ago that the overlay draft was not
>         going to be updated to use the mechanisms it details for
>         unicast, so the overlay draft is already explicitly not in
>         alignment with it.
>
>         This, plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft explicitly
>         puts the PMSI out of scope, leads me to the conclusion that
>         the overlay draft should not be tweaked to be in alignment
>         with a future solution for encoding VNIs for multicast.
>
>         Yours Irrespectively,
>
>         John
>
>         *From:*thomas.morin@orange.com
>         <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com> [mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com]
>         *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32 AM
>         *To:* John E Drake; IDR; BESS;
>         draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali
>         Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
>         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
>         *Subject:* RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>
>         Thanks for the clarification on the intent around
>         draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed section 9 needs some
>         tidying up.
>
>         The issue that I think remain is that it would be much cleaner
>         to explain how to use PMSI with overlay encaps in a spec not
>         specific to E-VPN and in a way more consistent to what is done
>         for unicast.
>
>         It seems if course that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be
>         the place, but that document currently explicitly makes PMSIs
>         out of scope.
>
>         Shouldn't this part of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ?
>
>         -Thomas
>
>
>         ---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a écrit ----
>
>         Fully agree John. That's what I meant, sorry if I didn't make
>         myself clear. Section 9 needs clean up, yes.
>
>         Thanks,
>         Jorge
>
>         _____________________________
>         From: EXT John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net
>         <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>         Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34
>         Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>         To: IDR <idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>>, Ali Sajassi
>         (sajassi) <sajassi@cisco.com <mailto:sajassi@cisco.com>>,
>         Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) <jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com
>         <mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com>>, BESS
>         <bess@ietf.org <mailto:bess@ietf.org>>,
>         <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>>, EXT -
>         thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>
>         <thomas.morin@orange.com <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>>
>
>
>         Jorge,
>
>         We put the VNI value in the MPLS label field of the PMSI
>         attribute for all service types, and we put a value in the
>         Ethernet Tag field following the rules for each service type
>         as described in 5.1.3
>         (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3).
>
>         You're right that we need to clean up section 9.
>
>         Yours Irrespectively,
>
>         John
>
>         > -----Original Message-----
>         > From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)
>         [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
>         > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM
>         > To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com
>         <mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com>; BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-
>         > overlay@tools.ietf.org <mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org>; Ali
>         Sajassi (sajassi)
>         > Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
>         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>         >
>         > Hi John,
>         >
>         > About this:
>         >
>         > [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in
>         the PMSI attribute. I think we need
>         > to ask everyone whether they used the Ethernet Tag or the
>         PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
>         >
>         >
>         > In case it helps, I’ve seen a few implementations running
>         and they all encode the VNI in the
>         > MPLS label field in the PTA. And a couple of them, encode
>         the VNI in the ethernet-tag, in
>         > addition to the MPLS label in the PTA. In any case, I think
>         section 9 contradicts section 5.1.3
>         > and should be clarified.
>         >
>         > "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
>         > <snip>
>         > the MPLS label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD
>         per EVI, and **Inclusive
>         > Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is used to carry the VNI or
>         VSID."
>         >
>         > Thanks.
>         > Jorge
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E Drake" <jdrake@juniper.net
>         <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>> wrote:
>         >
>         > >Thomas and Jorge,
>         > >
>         > >Snipped, comments inline.
>         > >
>         > >Yours Irrespectively,
>         > >
>         > >John
>         > >
>         > >> >
>         > >> >draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see section 9) relies on
>         the BGP
>         > >> >Encapsulation extended to encode the tunnel encap to use
>         for BUM
>         > >> >traffic, but contrary to other E-VPN routes, relies on
>         the Ethernet
>         > >> >Tag field of the NLRI to encode the VNI/VSID.
>         > >>
>         > >> [JORGE] This is certainly a leftover from an old version
>         where the
>         > >> VNI/VSID was encoded in the ethernet tag for all the
>         routes. The VNI
>         > >> should be encoded in the Label field in all the routes.
>         This has to be corrected.
>         > >>
>         > >> In fact, section 5.1.3 says:
>         > >>
>         > >> 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes
>         > >>
>         > >> <snip>
>         > >>
>         > >> Accordingly, and
>         > >> specifically to support the option of locally assigned
>         VNIs, the MPLS
>         > >> label field in the MAC Advertisement, Ethernet AD per
>         EVI, and
>         > >> Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag routes is used to carry
>         the VNI or
>         > >> VSID. For the balance of this memo, the MPLS label field
>         will be
>         > >> referred to as the VNI/VSID field. The VNI/VSID field is
>         used for
>         > >> both local and global VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the
>         entire 24-
>         > >> bit field is used to encode the VNI/VSID value.
>         > >>
>         > >> <snip>
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS label field is carried in
>         the PMSI attribute. I think we
>         > need to ask everyone whether they
>         > >used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to carry the VNI
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >> >>
>         > >> >> There are minor things that could be improved in
>         > >> >> draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt. consistency with
>         > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :
>         > >> >>
>         > >> >> * since draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will deprecate
>         RFC5512, it
>         > >> >> would be better that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
>         refers to
>         > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not anymore to RFC5512.
>         > >>
>         > >> [JORGE] I agree, as long as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>         keeps the
>         > >> encapsulation extended community. There are a few
>         implementations
>         > >> using this community and it is enough when only the
>         encapsulation type is needed.
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >[JD] I agree and the tunnel encaps draft does keep the EC
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >>
>         > >> >>
>         > >> >> * I think it would be better to avoid the explicit
>         list of encap
>         > >> >> types in section 5.1.3, and rather refer to
>         > >> >> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead
>         > >>
>         > >> [JORGE] I agree.
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >[JD] According to IANA, it allocated the five tunnels types
>         to the
>         > >overlay draft so I think we need to keep them
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >>
>         > >> >> * the following minor modification was proposed, but
>         not yet incorporated:
>         > >> >>
>         > >> >> John Drake, 2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):
>         > >> >>> For the overlay draft, replace this text in section
>         5.1.3:
>         > >> >>>
>         > >> >>> "If the BGP Encapsulation extended community is not
>         present,
>         > >> >>> then the default MPLS encapsulation or a statically
>         configured
>         > >> >>> encapsulation is assumed."
>         > >> >>>
>         > >> >>> With the following:
>         > >> >>>
>         > >> >>> "Note that the MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is
>         needed in
>         > >> >>> order to distinguish between an advertising node that
>         only
>         > >> >>> supports non-MPLS encapsulations and one that
>         supports MPLS and
>         > >> >>> non-MPLS encapsulations. An advertising node that
>         only supports
>         > >> >>> MPLS encapsulation does not need to advertise any
>         encapsulation
>         > >> >>> tunnel types; i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended
>         community
>         > >> >>> is not present, then either MPLS encapsulation or a
>         statically
>         > >> >>> configured encapsulation is assumed."
>         > >> >>
>         > >> >> I think this change is useful and should be
>         incorporated, although
>         > >> >> skipping the last sentence would be wise if the full
>         list of
>         > >> >> tunnel types is removed.
>         > >
>         > >
>         > >[JD] Fine with me either w/ or w/o the last sentence
>         > >
>         > >
>


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    Hi John,<br>
    <br>
    [with a question to IDR chairs and  draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
    authors below]<br>
    <br>
    2016-05-18, John E Drake:<br>
    &gt; Unless and until Eric’s draft is published the normative
    reference is to RFC 5512 and neither you nor anyone else knows when
    or if<br>
    &gt; Eric’s draft will be published as an RFC and I think it is a
    serious breach of procedure to hold up the overlay draft by
    asserting you<br>
    &gt; know what the future portends.<br>
    <br>
    Oh, oh, Big Words  :-D<br>
    (can you hear the faint murmur of lawyers in the background,
    impatient to enter the procedural battle ?)<br>
    <br>
    Talking about "holding up" the draft could give the wrong impression
    that apart from this question, the draft is ready.<br>
    From a strict procedural standpoint, if we set aside that it has
    been 'expired' for 4 weeks, draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay is in the
    same state as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, and noone knows its
    future for sure either.<br>
    <br>
    And talking about "holding up" the draft could give the wrong
    impression on the kind of input I am providing, that merely relate
    to producing specs not only clear for its authors but to a larger
    audience. In that respect, if we can avoid a short term future where
    the draft would point to an obsolete spec, I think it will be
    better. Hence, having a normative reference to
    draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps seems better.<br>
    <br>
    IDR chairs and draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps authors, do you know
    when we should expect a WGLC on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps ?<br>
    Progressing it quickly will help clarify all that.<br>
    <br>
    If too far or too much unknown around the progress of
    draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, I can certainly live with
    draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refer to RFC5512 normatively and to
    draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps informatively, and have text explicitly
    state where things stand.  But's let's not rush, and remember that
    implementers care more about spec stability than knowing what the
    exact RFC number will be.<br>
      <br>
    &gt; This is not the first time an RFC made a normative reference to
    an RFC that subsequently was obsoleted and the RFC system deals<br>
    &gt; quite nicely with this situation.<br>
    <br>
    Of course we can deal with less-than-ideal... it doesn't mean we
    can't anticipate and do better.<br>
    <br>
    -Thomas<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:SN1PR0501MB1709067A4289CA9E8FAC6E61C7490@SN1PR0501MB1709.namprd05.prod.outlook.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                  Thomas Morin [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 18, 2016 10:23 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>; Ali
                  Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay
                  vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">John,<br>
              <br>
              2016-05-18, John E Drake:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                spoke with Ali and he will reference the tunnel
                encapsulation draft rather than RFC 5512 but make it
                Informative.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </blockquote>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                think this is in the spirit of what you proposed in your
                email, below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
            Well, only for some definition of "in the spirit"... :-/<br>
            <br>
            What I think we should do is normatively refer to
            draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and informatively refer to
            RFC5512, not the reverse.<br>
            Or else we end up with an RFC that soon after publication
            will normatively depend to an obsoleted RFC.<br>
            <br>
            -Thomas<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
              1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
              <div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                  1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                      [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:19 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a></a>;
                      Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia -
                      US);
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr]
                      draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                      draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,<br>
                  <br>
                  John.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">When
                      the tunnel encaps draft was first published it did
                      not carry forward the RFC 5512 extended community
                      and it did not propose to obsolete RFC 5512. 
                      There was discussion of using the attribute
                      defined in the tunnel encaps draft instead of the
                      extended community and we decided to continue to
                      use the extended community.  So, in that sense we
                      are misaligned with the tunnel encaps draft.
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  As you confirm below, the last sentence is only true
                  in the past tense.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Subsequently,
                      however, the tunnel encaps draft decided to carry
                      forward the extended community and to obsolete RFC
                      5512, so we were effectively covered by a
                      grandfather clause.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  Yes, precisely: given the content of the two drafts,
                  there is no misalignment anymore.<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given
                      the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think
                      that’s acceptable and would prefer to continue to
                      refer to RFC 5512.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  I do not think that the additional publication delay
                  is a sound rationale for normatively refer to a spec
                  that is known to become obsolete.<br>
                  If it helps, the draft can keep an informative ref to
                  RFC5512 and remind that it does not rely on anything
                  specifically introduced by
                  draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not existing already
                  in RFC5512.<br>
                  <br>
                  -Thomas<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  2016-05-06, John E Drake:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">However,
                    even though I agreed yesterday to refer to the
                    tunnel encaps draft instead of RFC 5512 we have an
                    issue with doing this, viz, the overlay draft makes
                    a normative reference to RFC 5512.  If we change the
                    normative reference to the tunnel encaps draft we
                    cannot publish the overlay draft until after the
                    tunnel encaps draft has been published.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Given
                    the overlay draft’s tardiness, I don’t think that’s
                    acceptable and would prefer to continue to refer to
                    RFC 5512.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours
                      Irrespectively,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                  1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
                  <div>
                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                      1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                          [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                          <br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 5:47 PM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> IDR; BESS; <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a></a>;
                          Ali Sajassi (sajassi); Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia -
                          US);
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                          John E Drake<br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr]
                          draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
                    John, <br>
                    <br>
                    I have a hard time reconciliating the fact that
                    yesterday you were fine with having
                    bess-evpn-overlay refer to idr-tunnel-encap instead
                    of RFC5512, with the fact that you consider (below)
                    the two docs "not aligned" for unicast.<br>
                    <br>
                    Can you be more explicit in where the "misalignment"
                    lies? <br>
                    <br>
                    -Thomas<br>
                    <br>
                    ---- John E Drake a écrit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                          overlay draft preceded the tunnel encaps draft
                          and it was designed to handle a very specific
                          problem, marrying the EVPN control plane to
                          the VXLAN data plane draft and modulo the
                          correction to section 9 it is internally
                          consistent.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                          tunnel encaps draft solves a more general
                          problem and the WG decided a long time ago
                          that the overlay draft was not going to be
                          updated to use the mechanisms it details for
                          unicast, so the overlay draft is already
                          explicitly not in alignment with it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This,
                          plus the fact that the tunnel encaps draft
                          explicitly puts the PMSI out of scope, leads
                          me to the conclusion that the overlay draft
                          should not be tweaked to be in alignment with
                          a future solution for encoding VNIs for
                          multicast. </span>
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours
                            Irrespectively,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                        1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                            #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                  style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                                [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com</a>]
                                <br>
                                <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:32
                                AM<br>
                                <b>To:</b> John E Drake; IDR; BESS; <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a></a>; Ali Sajassi (sajassi);
                                Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US);
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                                <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr]
                                draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                                draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for the
                          clarification on the intent around
                          draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay. Then indeed
                          section 9 needs some tidying up.
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          The issue that I think remain is that it would
                          be much cleaner to explain how to use PMSI
                          with overlay encaps in a spec not specific to
                          E-VPN and in a way more consistent to what is
                          done for unicast.
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          It seems if course that
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap should be the
                          place, but that document currently explicitly
                          makes PMSIs out of scope.
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          Shouldn't this part of
                          draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap be revisited ? <br>
                          <br>
                          -Thomas<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          ---- Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) a écrit ----<o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <div id="compose">
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Fully agree
                                John. That's what I meant, sorry if I
                                didn't make myself clear. Section 9
                                needs clean up, yes.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
                                  Jorge<o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_____________________________<br>
                              From: EXT John E Drake &lt;<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a></a>&gt;<br>
                              Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 23:34<br>
                              Subject: RE: [Idr]
                              draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
                              To: IDR &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                              Ali Sajassi (sajassi) &lt;<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:sajassi@cisco.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sajassi@cisco.com">sajassi@cisco.com</a></a>&gt;,
                              Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) &lt;<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com">jorge.rabadan@alcatel-lucent.com</a></a>&gt;,
                              BESS &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:bess@ietf.org">bess@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                              &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                              EXT -
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>
                              &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              Jorge,<br>
                              <br>
                              We put the VNI value in the MPLS label
                              field of the PMSI attribute for all
                              service types, and we put a value in the
                              Ethernet Tag field following the rules for
                              each service type as described in 5.1.3 (<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay-02#section-5.1.3</a></a>).<br>
                              <br>
                              You're right that we need to clean up
                              section 9.<br>
                              <br>
                              Yours Irrespectively,<br>
                              <br>
                              John<br>
                              <br>
                              &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
                              &gt; From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US) [<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com">mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com</a></a>]<br>
                              &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 3:53 PM<br>
                              &gt; To: John E Drake; EXT - <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:thomas.morin@orange.com">thomas.morin@orange.com</a></a>;
                              BESS; IDR; draft-ietf-bess-evpn-<br>
                              &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:overlay@tools.ietf.org">overlay@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                              Ali Sajassi (sajassi)<br>
                              &gt; Subject: Re: [Idr]
                              draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs.
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; Hi John,<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; About this:<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; [JD] For the IMET route the MPLS
                              label field is carried in the PMSI
                              attribute. I think we need<br>
                              &gt; to ask everyone whether they used the
                              Ethernet Tag or the PMSI attribute to
                              carry the VNI<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; In case it helps, I’ve seen a few
                              implementations running and they all
                              encode the VNI in the<br>
                              &gt; MPLS label field in the PTA. And a
                              couple of them, encode the VNI in the
                              ethernet-tag, in<br>
                              &gt; addition to the MPLS label in the
                              PTA. In any case, I think section 9
                              contradicts section 5.1.3<br>
                              &gt; and should be clarified.<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; "5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP Routes<br>
                              &gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                              &gt; the MPLS label field in the MAC
                              Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and
                              **Inclusive<br>
                              &gt; Multicast Ethernet Tag** routes is
                              used to carry the VNI or VSID."<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; Thanks.<br>
                              &gt; Jorge<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; On 5/4/16, 8:34 PM, "EXT John E
                              Drake" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                              wrote:<br>
                              &gt; <br>
                              &gt; &gt;Thomas and Jorge,<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;Snipped, comments inline.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;Yours Irrespectively,<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;John<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;
                              &gt;draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay (see
                              section 9) relies on the BGP<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Encapsulation extended
                              to encode the tunnel encap to use for BUM<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;traffic, but contrary to
                              other E-VPN routes, relies on the Ethernet<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Tag field of the NLRI to
                              encode the VNI/VSID.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] This is certainly a
                              leftover from an old version where the<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; VNI/VSID was encoded in the
                              ethernet tag for all the routes. The VNI<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; should be encoded in the
                              Label field in all the routes. This has to
                              be corrected.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; In fact, section 5.1.3 says:<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; 5.1.3 Constructing EVPN BGP
                              Routes<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; Accordingly, and<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; specifically to support the
                              option of locally assigned VNIs, the MPLS<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; label field in the MAC
                              Advertisement, Ethernet AD per EVI, and<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet
                              Tag routes is used to carry the VNI or<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; VSID. For the balance of
                              this memo, the MPLS label field will be<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; referred to as the VNI/VSID
                              field. The VNI/VSID field is used for<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; both local and global
                              VNIs/VSIDs, and for either case the entire
                              24-<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; bit field is used to encode
                              the VNI/VSID value.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;[JD] For the IMET route the MPLS
                              label field is carried in the PMSI
                              attribute. I think we<br>
                              &gt; need to ask everyone whether they<br>
                              &gt; &gt;used the Ethernet Tag or the PMSI
                              attribute to carry the VNI<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There are minor
                              things that could be improved in<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                              draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay wrt.
                              consistency with<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps :<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * since
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will
                              deprecate RFC5512, it<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would be better
                              that draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay refers
                              to<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps and not
                              anymore to RFC5512.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree, as long as
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps keeps the<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; encapsulation extended
                              community. There are a few implementations<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; using this community and it
                              is enough when only the encapsulation type
                              is needed.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;[JD] I agree and the tunnel
                              encaps draft does keep the EC<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * I think it would
                              be better to avoid the explicit list of
                              encap<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; types in section
                              5.1.3, and rather refer to<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
                              draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps instead<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; [JORGE] I agree.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;[JD] According to IANA, it
                              allocated the five tunnels types to the<br>
                              &gt; &gt;overlay draft so I think we need
                              to keep them<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; * the following
                              minor modification was proposed, but not
                              yet incorporated:<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; John Drake,
                              2015-11-13 (to BESS ML):<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; For the overlay
                              draft, replace this text in section 5.1.3:<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; "If the BGP
                              Encapsulation extended community is not
                              present,<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; then the
                              default MPLS encapsulation or a statically
                              configured<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulation
                              is assumed."<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; With the
                              following:<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; "Note that the
                              MPLS encapsulation tunnel type is needed
                              in<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; order to
                              distinguish between an advertising node
                              that only<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; supports
                              non-MPLS encapsulations and one that
                              supports MPLS and<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; non-MPLS
                              encapsulations. An advertising node that
                              only supports<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MPLS
                              encapsulation does not need to advertise
                              any encapsulation<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tunnel types;
                              i.e., if the BGP Encapsulation extended
                              community<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is not present,
                              then either MPLS encapsulation or a
                              statically<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; configured
                              encapsulation is assumed."<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I think this change
                              is useful and should be incorporated,
                              although<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; skipping the last
                              sentence would be wise if the full list of<br>
                              &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; tunnel types is
                              removed.<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;[JD] Fine with me either w/ or
                              w/o the last sentence<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<br>
                              &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </body>
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        Title           : Applying BGP flowspec rules on a specific interface set
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Adam Simpson
                          Keyur Patel
                          Jeff Haas
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-00.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2016-05-18

Abstract:
   BGP Flow-spec is an extension to BGP that allows for the
   dissemination of traffic flow specification rules.  The primary
   application of this extension is DDoS mitigation where the flowspec
   rules are applied in most cases to all peering routers of the
   network.

   This document will present another use case of BGP Flow-spec where
   flow specifications are used to maintain some access control lists at
   network boundary.  BGP Flowspec is a very efficient distributing
   machinery that can help in saving OPEX while deploying/updating ACLs.
   This new application requires flow specification rules to be applied
   only on a specific subset of interfaces and in a specific direction.

   The current specification of BGP Flow-spec does not detail where the
   flow specification rules need to be applied.

   This document presents a new interface-set flowspec action that will
   be used in complement of other actions (marking, rate-limiting ...).
   The purpose of this extension is to inform remote routers on where to
   apply the flow specification.

   This extension can also be used in a DDoS mitigation context where a
   provider wants to apply the filtering only on specific peers.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-interfaceset/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-interfaceset-00


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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Susan Hares, a Chair of the idr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Inter-Domain Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Susan Hares

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours, 1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 75
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority:  trill i2rs i2nsf netconf bess sidr netmod rtgwg
 Second Priority:  sdnrg nfvrg teas
 Third Priority:  dots rtgarea


Special Requests:
  Please group at beginning of week or end of week.  You can also do a 2.5 hr session if that works for the schedule. 
---------------------------------------------------------


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Extended Message support for BGP
        Authors         : Randy Bush
                          Keyur Patel
                          Dave Ward
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12.txt
	Pages           : 5
	Date            : 2016-05-21

Abstract:
   The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096
   octets.  As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs, there is a
   need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  This
   document updates the BGP specification in RFC4271 by providing an
   extension to BGP to extend its current message size from 4096 octets
   to 65535 octets.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12

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From nobody Sat May 21 05:36:52 2016
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the change was to error handling.  jgs did the heavy lifting, tyvm.

OLD

5.  Error Handling

   A BGP speaker that has the ability to use extended messages but has
   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due
   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept such a message.

   However, a BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended
   Messages capability might also genuinely not support extended
   messages.  Such a speaker would be expected to follow the error
   handling procedures of [RFC4221], Section 6.1, and reset the session
   with a Bad Message Length NOTIFICATION if it receives an extended
   message.  A speaker that treats an improper extended message as a
   fatal error should do likewise.

NEW

5.  Error Handling

   A BGP speaker that has the ability to use extended messages but has
   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due
   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an extended message.  A speaker
   MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept extended messages even
   from a peer that has not advertised the capability.

   However, a BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended
   Messages capability might also genuinely not support extended
   messages.  Such a speaker would be expected to follow the error
   handling procedures of [RFC4221], Section 6.1, and reset the session
   with a Bad Message Length NOTIFICATION if it receives an extended
   message.  A speaker that treats an improper extended message as a
   fatal error, as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do
   likewise.

randy


From nobody Mon May 23 04:49:15 2016
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Methods for Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route Leaks
        Authors         : Kotikalapudi Sriram
                          Doug Montgomery
                          Brian Dickson
                          Keyur Patel
                          Andrei Robachevsky
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-03.txt
	Pages           : 22
	Date            : 2016-05-23

Abstract:
   [I-D.ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition] provides a definition
   of the route leak problem, and also enumerates several types of route
   leaks.  This document first examines which of those route-leak types
   are detected and mitigated by the existing origin validation (OV)
   [RFC 6811].  It is recognized that OV offers a limited detection and
   mitigation capability against route leaks.  This document specifies
   enhancements that significantly extend the route-leak prevention,
   detection, and mitigation capabilities of BGP.  One solution
   component involves carrying a per-hop route-leak protection (RLP)
   field in BGP updates.  The RLP field is proposed be carried in a new
   optional transitive attribute, called BGP RLP attribute.  The
   solution is meant to be initially implemented as an enhancement of
   BGP without requiring BGPsec [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol].
   However, when BGPsec is deployed in the future, the solution can be
   incorporated in BGPsec, enabling cryptographic protection for the RLP
   field.  That would be one way of implementing the proposed solution
   in a secure way.  The document also includes a stopgap method for
   detection and mitigation of route leaks for an intermediate phase
   when OV is deployed but BGP protocol on the wire is unchanged.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-03

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From nobody Mon May 23 05:32:07 2016
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This new version is a significant improvement both in terms of substance an=
d clarity of presentation.
It has the following substantive additions:

1. Section 3.1.1 specifies the TLV format for a new BGP RLP attribute.
 =20
2. It is important that the ingress and egress routers within an AS are coo=
rdinated
for route leak prevention. The new Section 3.2 =93Intra-AS Messaging for Ro=
ute Leak Prevention=94
talks about this, and outlines the common practice amongst large ISPs with =
regard to this.

3. Section 5.5 discusses the topic =93Per-Hop RLP Flags or Single RLP Flag =
per Update?=94
It is observed that the Per-Hop RLP Flags method is more robust in the pres=
ence of=20
partial deployment and/or faulty implementation in some ASes along the path=
.=20
A presentation was made at IETF-95 on this topic (slides 5-9):
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-idr-13.pdf=20

4. Section 3.1.2 talks about how in the future the per-hop RLP encodings wi=
ll be carried=20
in existing BGPsec Flags to provide cryptographic protection. =20

We (the authors) thank many who have provided comments so far on this work.=
=20
Welcome further comments and suggestions.

Sriram

________________________________________
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 7:49 AM
To: Brian Dickson; Montgomery, Douglas (Fed); Keyur Patel; Andrei Robachevs=
ky; Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-m=
itigation-03.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kotikalapudi Sriram and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation
Revision:       03
Title:          Methods for Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route Leaks
Document date:  2016-05-23
Group:          idr
Pages:          22
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-route-l=
eak-detection-mitigation-03.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-=
detection-mitigation/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detec=
tion-mitigation-03
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-route-le=
ak-detection-mitigation-03

Abstract:
   [I-D.ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition] provides a definition
   of the route leak problem, and also enumerates several types of route
   leaks.  This document first examines which of those route-leak types
   are detected and mitigated by the existing origin validation (OV)
   [RFC 6811].  It is recognized that OV offers a limited detection and
   mitigation capability against route leaks.  This document specifies
   enhancements that significantly extend the route-leak prevention,
   detection, and mitigation capabilities of BGP.  One solution
   component involves carrying a per-hop route-leak protection (RLP)
   field in BGP updates.  The RLP field is proposed be carried in a new
   optional transitive attribute, called BGP RLP attribute.  The
   solution is meant to be initially implemented as an enhancement of
   BGP without requiring BGPsec [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol].
   However, when BGPsec is deployed in the future, the solution can be
   incorporated in BGPsec, enabling cryptographic protection for the RLP
   field.  That would be one way of implementing the proposed solution
   in a secure way.  The document also includes a stopgap method for
   detection and mitigation of route leaks for an intermediate phase
   when OV is deployed but BGP protocol on the wire is unchanged.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


From nobody Mon May 23 10:42:42 2016
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Hi,

Just posted
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gateway/

We think this covers an important hole. The document defines a mechanism using
the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to allow each gateway router to advertise
the routes to the prefixes in the data center site to which it provides access,
and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the same data center
site.

We posted this as  BESS draft, so discussion there, please until such time that
the various chairs tell us to move the discussion somewhere else.

Thanks,
Adrian


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--001a11c36ed6f46cf505338669e7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Adrian,

Many thx for sharing the document. Just starting to read it one assertion
repeated at least twice got my attention:

"Segment routing (SR) [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] is a popular
protocol mechanism for operating within a DC"

By "popular protocol mechanism" when building non blocking L3 CLOS IP
fabric are you referring to the below proposal or something else ?

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-02

Also by "popular" do you mean something which is perhaps deployed in
production to any level or author's definition of "popular" refers to
something real deployment are yet to see ?

Honestly having been involved in building large scale data centers for the
last few years I have not see SR being anywhere close to be used there.
Especially MPLS flavor of it :)

If anything within DCs draft-lapukhov-bgp-sdn-00 is easy to use and
provides more then sufficient flexibility within properly constructed
intra-dc fabric in terms of traffic engineering.

Many thx,
Robert.


On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just posted
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gateway/
>
> We think this covers an important hole. The document defines a mechanism
> using
> the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to allow each gateway router to
> advertise
> the routes to the prefixes in the data center site to which it provides
> access,
> and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the same data
> center
> site.
>
> We posted this as  BESS draft, so discussion there, please until such time
> that
> the various chairs tell us to move the discussion somewhere else.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

--001a11c36ed6f46cf505338669e7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Adrian,</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">Many thx for sharing the document. Just starting t=
o read it one assertion repeated at least twice got my attention:=C2=A0</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">&quot;Segment routing (SR=
) [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] is a popular</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">protocol mechanism=
 for operating within a DC&quot;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small">By &quot;popular protocol mechanism&quot; when building non bloc=
king L3 CLOS IP fabric are you referring to the below proposal or something=
 else ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><a href=3D"https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-02">htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-02<=
/a></font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"a=
rial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Also by &quot;popula=
r&quot; do you mean something which is perhaps deployed in production to an=
y level or author&#39;s definition of &quot;popular&quot; refers to somethi=
ng real deployment are yet to see ?</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans=
-serif">Honestly having been involved in building large scale data centers =
for the last few years I have not see SR being anywhere close to be used th=
ere. Especially MPLS flavor of it :)=C2=A0</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif">If anything within DCs=C2=A0draft-lapukhov-bgp-sdn-00 is eas=
y to use and provides more then sufficient flexibility within properly cons=
tructed intra-dc fabric in terms of traffic engineering.=C2=A0</font></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, san=
s-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font fac=
e=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Many thx,</font></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Robert.</=
font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 7=
:42 PM, Adrian Farrel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog=
.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">Hi,<br>
<br>
Just posted<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gat=
eway/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gateway/</a><br>
<br>
We think this covers an important hole. The document defines a mechanism us=
ing<br>
the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to allow each gateway router to adve=
rtise<br>
the routes to the prefixes in the data center site to which it provides acc=
ess,<br>
and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the same data cent=
er<br>
site.<br>
<br>
We posted this as=C2=A0 BESS draft, so discussion there, please until such =
time that<br>
the various chairs tell us to move the discussion somewhere else.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
</span>Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c36ed6f46cf505338669e7--


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-15.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Advertisement of Multiple Paths in BGP
        Authors         : Daniel Walton
                          Alvaro Retana
                          Enke Chen
                          John Scudder
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-15.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2016-05-23

Abstract:
   This document defines a BGP extension that allows the advertisement
   of multiple paths for the same address prefix without the new paths
   implicitly replacing any previous ones.  The essence of the extension
   is that each path is identified by a path identifier in addition to
   the address prefix.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-add-paths/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-15

A diff from the previous version is available at:
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] New draft for data center gateways
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--001a113f8f70bebf6a0533881518
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Dear Authors,

Question 1:

Assume that prefix X has been advertised with tunnel attribute as described
in the draft with both GW1 and GW2 entry points to Egress DC site.

So remote GW in Ingress DC site receives at least one such advertisement
and as each contains both GW1 and GW2 entries it can engineer flows to
those.

So far so good ... but what happens when link between PE (on left side) and
GW1 goes down ?

BGP will after some time remove that path via all ASes, but GW2 will keep
advertsing prefix X as still reachable via both GW1 and GW2 within tunnel
encapsulation attribute as from his perspective nothing will be wrong.

How remote GW in Ingress DC site is now supposed to know that GW1 link to
PE in AS2 went down and stop pushing traffic towards it ?

- - -

Question 2:

What happens if all L3 DC CLOS IP Fabrics use eBGP not IGP ?

- - -

Question 3:

Is per prefix tunnel attribute where say /32 routes may be exchanges flat
(ref calico approach - https://www.projectcalico.org/) really a scalable
solution ?


Best,
Robert.

PS. Just purely as information your inter DC traffic steering problem
description is easily solved already today with one level of indirection -
Example: LISP. Not sure if we need additional flat protocol extensions
here.



On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Hi Adrian,
>
> Many thx for sharing the document. Just starting to read it one assertion
> repeated at least twice got my attention:
>
> "Segment routing (SR) [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] is a popular
> protocol mechanism for operating within a DC"
>
> By "popular protocol mechanism" when building non blocking L3 CLOS IP
> fabric are you referring to the below proposal or something else ?
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-02
>
> Also by "popular" do you mean something which is perhaps deployed in
> production to any level or author's definition of "popular" refers to
> something real deployment are yet to see ?
>
> Honestly having been involved in building large scale data centers for the
> last few years I have not see SR being anywhere close to be used there.
> Especially MPLS flavor of it :)
>
> If anything within DCs draft-lapukhov-bgp-sdn-00 is easy to use and
> provides more then sufficient flexibility within properly constructed
> intra-dc fabric in terms of traffic engineering.
>
> Many thx,
> Robert.
>
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just posted
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gateway/
>>
>> We think this covers an important hole. The document defines a mechanism
>> using
>> the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to allow each gateway router to
>> advertise
>> the routes to the prefixes in the data center site to which it provides
>> access,
>> and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the same data
>> center
>> site.
>>
>> We posted this as  BESS draft, so discussion there, please until such
>> time that
>> the various chairs tell us to move the discussion somewhere else.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>>
>
>

--001a113f8f70bebf6a0533881518
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Dear Authors,</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small">Question 1:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small">Assume that prefix X has been advertised with tunnel attr=
ibute as described in the draft with both GW1 and GW2 entry points to Egres=
s DC site.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So re=
mote GW in Ingress DC site receives at least one such advertisement and as =
each contains both GW1 and GW2 entries it can engineer flows to those.=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So far so good ...=
 but what happens when link between PE (on left side) and GW1 goes down ?=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">BGP will after =
some time remove that path via all ASes, but GW2 will keep advertsing prefi=
x X as still reachable via both GW1 and GW2 within tunnel encapsulation att=
ribute as from his perspective nothing will be wrong.=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">How remote GW in Ingress DC site is n=
ow supposed to know that GW1 link to PE in AS2 went down and stop pushing t=
raffic towards it ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sma=
ll">- - -=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Questi=
on 2:=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">What happe=
ns if all L3 DC CLOS IP Fabrics use eBGP not IGP ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">- - -=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">Question 3:=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">Is per prefix tunnel attribute where say /32 routes ma=
y be exchanges flat (ref calico approach - <a href=3D"https://www.projectca=
lico.org/">https://www.projectcalico.org/</a>) really a scalable solution ?=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Robert.</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small">PS. Just purely as information your inter DC =
traffic steering problem description is easily solved already today with on=
e level of indirection - Example: LISP. Not sure if we need additional flat=
 protocol extensions here.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Robert Raszuk=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blan=
k">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-st=
yle:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
Hi Adrian,</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small">Many thx for sharing the document. Just starting to read it=
 one assertion repeated at least twice got my attention:=C2=A0</div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">&quot;S=
egment routing (SR) [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] is a popular</div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">protocol mechanism for o=
perating within a DC&quot;</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small">By &quot;popular protocol mechanism&quot; w=
hen building non blocking L3 CLOS IP fabric are you referring to the below =
proposal or something else ?=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-sp=
ring-large-scale-interconnect-02" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-filsfils-spring-large-scale-interconnect-02</a></font><br></div>=
<div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><fon=
t face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Also by &quot;popular&quot; do you =
mean something which is perhaps deployed in production to any level or auth=
or&#39;s definition of &quot;popular&quot; refers to something real deploym=
ent are yet to see ?</font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-=
serif"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Ho=
nestly having been involved in building large scale data centers for the la=
st few years I have not see SR being anywhere close to be used there. Espec=
ially MPLS flavor of it :)=C2=A0</font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sa=
ns-serif">If anything within DCs=C2=A0draft-lapukhov-bgp-sdn-00 is easy to =
use and provides more then sufficient flexibility within properly construct=
ed intra-dc fabric in terms of traffic engineering.=C2=A0</font></div><div>=
<font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font fac=
e=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Many thx,</font></div><div><font face=3D=
"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Robert.</font></div><div><br></div></div><di=
v class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Adrian Farrel <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@old=
dog.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;=
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span>Hi,<br>
<br>
Just posted<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gat=
eway/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-drake-bess-datacenter-gateway/</a><br>
<br>
We think this covers an important hole. The document defines a mechanism us=
ing<br>
the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to allow each gateway router to adve=
rtise<br>
the routes to the prefixes in the data center site to which it provides acc=
ess,<br>
and also to advertise on behalf of each other gateway to the same data cent=
er<br>
site.<br>
<br>
We posted this as=C2=A0 BESS draft, so discussion there, please until such =
time that<br>
the various chairs tell us to move the discussion somewhere else.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
</span>Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a113f8f70bebf6a0533881518--


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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Thread-Topic: Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Jari Arkko's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-route-oscillation-stop-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On 5/5/16, 11:36 AM, "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com> wrote:

Jari:

Hi!  Took me longer than I thought...

Please see below and let me know if you think it is clearer -- I'll then
include it in the next version.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


>>
>>
>>
>>>When the ADD-PATH Capability is also received from
>>>the IBGP peer with the "Send/Receive" field set to 1 (receive
>>>multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple paths) for the same <AFI,
>>>SAFI>, then the following procedures shall be followed:
>>>If the peer is a route reflection client, the route reflector SHOULD
>>>advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
>>>received from its non-client IBGP peers.  Depending on the
>>>configuration, the route reflector MAY also advertise to the peer the
>>>Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from its clients.
>>
>>I am picking this text excerpt as an example.
>>
>>Like Paul, some of this language makes me slightly uncomfortable,
>>and it would be good to understand what the aim is. If the intent
>>is to describe a procedure that can be followed and fully specified,
>>the expectations on the text are different from an informative
>>description of the kinds of things an implementation could do.
>>
>>In the above text, there's quite a lot of imprecision. That may
>>be fine, but I wanted to check that this is the case.
>>
>>For instance, why is a "shall" (and in lowercase) followed by
>>a set of "SHOULD"s and "MAY"s? Is there any guidance on
>>when the "SHOULD"s should be followed? There seems to
>>be thinking behind, could that be documented? What kind
>>of configuration issues affect the decisions?
>
>Yes, I see what you mean.  I think that at the time we wrote the text we
>were probably thinking in terms of "SHOULD" because this is one of the
>options (Group Best Paths vs All the Paths), but within that option we can
>be more precise.
>
>We will work on clarifying and get back to you -- I'm traveling, so it
>might take a couple of days.


OLD>
5.1.  Route Reflection

   Depending on the configuration, for a particular <AFI, SAFI> a route
   reflector SHOULD include the <AFI, SAFI> with the "Send/Receive"
   field set to 2 (send multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple
   paths) in the ADD-PATH Capability [I-D.ietf-idr-add-paths] advertised
   to an IBGP peer.  When the ADD-PATH Capability is also received from
   the IBGP peer with the "Send/Receive" field set to 1 (receive
   multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple paths) for the same <AFI,
   SAFI>, then the following procedures shall be followed:

   If the peer is a route reflection client, the route reflector SHOULD
   advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
   received from its non-client IBGP peers.  Depending on the
   configuration, the route reflector MAY also advertise to the peer the
   Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from its clients.

   If the peer is a non-client, the route reflector SHOULD advertise to
   the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from
   its clients.

5.2.  Confederation

   Depending on the configuration, for a particular <AFI, SAFI> a
   confederation ASBR SHOULD include the <AFI, SAFI> with the "Send/
   Receive" field set to 2 (send multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive
   multiple paths) in the ADD-PATH Capability [I-D.ietf-idr-add-paths]
   advertised to an IBGP peer, and to a confederation external peer.
   When the ADD-PATH Capability is also received from the IBGP peer or
   the confederation external peer with the "Send/Receive" field set to
   1 (receive multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple paths) for the
   same <AFI, SAFI>, then the following procedures shall be followed:

   If the peer is internal, the confederation ASBR SHOULD advertise to
   the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from
   its confederation external peers.

   If the peer is confederation external, the confederation ASBR SHOULD
   advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
   received from its IBGP peers.



NEW>
5.1.  Route Reflection

   For a particular <AFI, SAFI> a route reflector MUST include the <AFI,
   SAFI> with the "Send/Receive" field set to 2 (send multiple paths) or
   3 (send/receive multiple paths) in the ADD-PATH Capability
   [I-D.ietf-idr-add-paths] advertised to an IBGP peer.  When the ADD-
   PATH Capability is also received from the IBGP peer with the "Send/
   Receive" field set to 1 (receive multiple paths) or 3 (send/receive
   multiple paths) for the same <AFI, SAFI>, then the following
   procedures apply:

   If the peer is a route reflection client, the route reflector MUST
   advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
   received from its non-client IBGP peers.  The route reflector MAY
   also advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available
   Paths) received from its clients.

   If the peer is a non-client, the route reflector MUST advertise to
   the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from
   its clients.

5.2.  Confederation

   For a particular <AFI, SAFI> a confederation ASBR MUST include the
   <AFI, SAFI> with the "Send/Receive" field set to 2 (send multiple
   paths) or 3 (send/receive multiple paths) in the ADD-PATH Capability
   [I-D.ietf-idr-add-paths] advertised to an IBGP peer, and to a
   confederation external peer.  When the ADD-PATH Capability is also
   received from the IBGP peer or the confederation external peer with
   the "Send/Receive" field set to 1 (receive multiple paths) or 3
   (send/receive multiple paths) for the same <AFI, SAFI>, then the
   following procedures apply:

   If the peer is internal, the confederation ASBR MUST advertise to the
   peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths) received from its
   confederation external peers.

   If the peer is confederation external, the confederation ASBR MUST
   advertise to the peer the Group Best Paths (or the Available Paths)
   received from its IBGP peers.







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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Thomas Morin <thomas.morin@orange.com>,  IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 07:04:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Folks,

I have updated and published rev03 of even-overlay draft.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay/

The main changes are:

  1.  section 10.2 - DCI using ASBR
  2.  The setting of Ethernet tag and VNI fields - there were some inconsis=
tencies in different sections. Section 5.1.3 captures the setting of these =
fields for different type of services in pretty good details. All other sec=
tions were cleaned up and now refer to section 5.1.3.

Thomas,
The draft is ready for its long-overdue WG LC considering how long its has =
been around and its multi-vendor implementation status.

Regards,
Ali

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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Folks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have updated and published rev03 of even-overlay draft.&nbsp;</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overl=
ay/" style=3D"font-family: Consolas;">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The main changes are:</div>
<ol>
<li>section 10.2 &#8211; DCI using ASBR</li><li>The setting of Ethernet tag=
 and VNI fields &#8211; there were some inconsistencies in different sectio=
ns. Section 5.1.3 captures the setting of these fields for different type o=
f services in pretty good details. All other sections were cleaned up and n=
ow refer
 to section 5.1.3.</li></ol>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thomas,</div>
<div>The draft is ready for its long-overdue WG LC considering how long its=
 has been around and its multi-vendor implementation status.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Ali</div>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>, "EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com" <thomas.morin@orange.com>, IDR <idr@ietf.org>, BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org>, "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US)" <jorge.rabadan@nokia.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 13:39:26 +0000
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Cc: Adrian Farrel <afarrel@juniper.net>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Hi,

Ali and I decided to keep the normative reference to RFC 5512 rather than c=
hanging it to Eric's tunnel encapsulation draft because the normative refer=
ence pre-dates Eric's draft and because our draft does not use any of the n=
ew capabilities introduced in Eric's draft.

Ali and I would also like to request that Jorge be the document shepherd fo=
r this draft.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 3:05 AM
To: John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com; IDR; BESS; draft-ietf-bess=
-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encap@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-e=
ncaps


Folks,

I have updated and published rev03 of even-overlay draft.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay/

The main changes are:

  1.  section 10.2 - DCI using ASBR
  2.  The setting of Ethernet tag and VNI fields - there were some inconsis=
tencies in different sections. Section 5.1.3 captures the setting of these =
fields for different type of services in pretty good details. All other sec=
tions were cleaned up and now refer to section 5.1.3.

Thomas,
The draft is ready for its long-overdue WG LC considering how long its has =
been around and its multi-vendor implementation status.

Regards,
Ali

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ali and I decided to keep the normati=
ve reference to RFC 5512 rather than changing it to Eric&#8217;s tunnel enc=
apsulation draft because the normative reference pre-dates
 Eric&#8217;s draft and because our draft does not use any of the new capab=
ilities introduced in Eric&#8217;s draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ali and I would also like to request =
that Jorge be the document shepherd for this draft.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtex=
t"> Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2016 3:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; EXT - thomas.morin@orange.com; IDR; BESS; draft-ie=
tf-bess-evpn-overlay@tools.ietf.org; Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US); draft-iet=
f-idr-tunnel-encap@tools.ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay vs. draft-ietf-idr-t=
unnel-encaps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Folks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I have updated and published rev03 of even-overlay =
draft.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i=
etf-bess-evpn-overlay/"><span style=3D"font-family:Consolas">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-overlay/</span></a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">The main changes are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>section 10.2 &#8211; DCI using ASBR<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-lis=
t:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>The setting of Ethernet tag and VNI fields &#8211; there were some inconsi=
stencies in different sections. Section 5.1.3 captures the setting of these=
 fields for different type of services in pretty good
 details. All other sections were cleaned up and now refer to section 5.1.3=
.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">The draft is ready for its long-overdue WG LC consi=
dering how long its has been around and its multi-vendor implementation sta=
tus.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Ali<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>
To: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
Thread-Topic: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-09
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Subject: Re: [Idr] AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-09
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On 4/29/16, 6:44 PM, "Nick Hilliard" <nick@foobar.org> wrote:

Nick:

Hi!

Thanks for the revision!

>We deliberately steered clear of dealing with operational issues in this
>draft because its focus was on the bgp protocol. Several of the comments
>you make below are probably more relevant to
>draft-ietf-grow-ix-bgp-route-server-operations. We've marked them as such.

Does that mean that you will update
draft-ietf-grow-ix-bgp-route-server-operations, or what?  Just wondering.
It would be nice to have a reference from this document to
draft-ietf-grow-ix-bgp-route-server-operations.


I'm starting the IETF Last Call and will schedule the IESG review at the
next available Telechat.

Thanks!

Alvaro.




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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-guidelines-08.txt - 1 week call to confirm WG LC (5/24 to 5/31)
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IDR WG: 

 

We're trying to resolve several "pending" requests this month.  This is the
first of these drafts. 

 

draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-guidelines-07.txt reached WG consensus on
4/23/2014.  Unfortunately, the RTG-DIR review was not handled.  The authors
have published draft-ietf-idr-add-paths-guidelines-08.txt. 

 

The WG Chairs consider this to resolve the RTG-DIR issues, and plan to
forward this to the IESG.  However, since this draft has been idle since
2014, we are doing a 1 week call notifying the WG of our plans.  If you feel
the WG should enter into a 2 week WG LC or if you have issues with this
draft, please respond to this email.  Otherwise, on 5/31/2016 -this draft
will be forwarded to the IESG.  

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder

  

 

 


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style=3D'mso-line-height-alt:0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>IDR WG: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-line-height-alt:0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>We&#8217;re trying to resolve =
several &#8220;pending&#8221; requests this month. &nbsp;This is the =
first of these drafts. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
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However, since this draft has been idle since 2014, we are doing a 1 =
week call notifying the WG of our plans.&nbsp; If you feel the WG should =
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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to
6/7). The draft can be found at: 

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

 

In your comments please provide the following information: 

1)      Support/"no-support" of this draft being ready for publication,

2)      You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the
implementation to the IDR Wiki

 

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-imp
lementations 

 

3)      Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages. 

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder 


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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>This =
begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to =
6/7). The draft can be found at: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa=
ges/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>In your comments please provide the following =
information: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Support/&#8221;no-support&#8221; of this draft =
being ready for publication,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>You know of an implementation for this draft, =
please report the implementation to the IDR Wiki<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]>Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP =
messages. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue Hares and John Scudder =
<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0380_01D1B5DB.38A619D0--


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Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 22:50:36 +0200
From: Job Snijders <job@instituut.net>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Cc: "'Keyur Patel \(keyupate\)'" <keyupate@cisco.com>, idr@ietf.org, 'David Ward' <wardd@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 04:42:11PM -0400, Susan Hares wrote:
> This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to
> 6/7). The draft can be found at: 
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

I support publication.

Kind regards,

Job


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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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Thread-Topic: [spring] [Idr] New draft for data center gateways
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring]  New draft for data center gateways
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Hi John,

*[JD]  We were assuming that a) GW/backbone links would be advertised in
> BGP LS (optionally w/ EPE) and b) a GW that is disconnected from the
> backbone does not advertise an auto-discovery route.  This will be made
> explicit in the next revision.  *
>

=E2=80=8BAd a) - EPE works fine with next hop self on the ASBRs of the bacb=
one. So
if your proposal requires external links to be passive in the backbone IGP
then the draft needs to state it well. Besides it may not be sufficient if
more then one backbone instance is used to interconnect DCs.

Ad b) - The current set of procedures described in section 2 for
constructing auto discovery routes is not sufficient. GW may be
interconnected to more then one backbone each serving different set of
prefixes within each DC (you call it X). So much more would need to go into
the auto-discovery to make this work in practice. And even if you would go
that way it will be slow to re-advertise all prefixes with different tunnel
attribute content.

*[JD]   Are you simply repeating the opinion you expressed when the
> tunnel-encaps draft first came out, or do you have a scalability concern
> that hasn't already been discussed?*
>
>
=E2=80=8BI am expressing the observation that tunnel-encaps may work well t=
o pass
static information or information which may change by configiration.

Here you are using it to pass remote reachability info embedded into it. I
find it far from optimal which as combined with possible DC prefix scale is
likely to cause more issues then benefits.

That's why I suggest use of indirection layer to solve this overall
problem. As mentioned one could be LISP or any other SD-WAN solutions.

Thx,
R.

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style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt=
"><div><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[J=
D]=C2=A0 We were assuming that a) GW/backbone links would be advertised in =
BGP LS (optionally w/ EPE) and b) a GW that is disconnected
 from the backbone does not advertise an auto-discovery route.=C2=A0 This w=
ill be made explicit in the next revision. =C2=A0</span></i></b></p></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">=E2=80=8BAd a) - EPE works fine with next hop self on the ASBRs of=
 the bacbone. So if your proposal requires external links to be passive in =
the backbone IGP then the draft needs to state it well. Besides it may not =
be sufficient if more then one backbone instance is used to interconnect DC=
s.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Ad b) - The c=
urrent set of procedures described in section 2 for constructing auto disco=
very routes is not sufficient. GW may be interconnected to more then one ba=
ckbone each serving different set of prefixes within each DC (you call it X=
). So much more would need to go into the auto-discovery to make this work =
in practice. And even if you would go that way it will be slow to re-advert=
ise all prefixes with different tunnel attribute content.=C2=A0</div></div>=
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"b=
lue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue=
 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[JD]=C2=A0=C2=A0 Are you simply=
 repeating the opinion you expressed when the tunnel-encaps draft first cam=
e out, or do you have a scalability concern that hasn&#39;t
 already been discussed?</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#1f497d"><u></u></span></p></div></span></div></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif">=E2=80=8BI am expressing the observation that tunnel-encaps may=
 work well to pass static information or information which may change by co=
nfigiration.=C2=A0</span><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">Here you are using it to pass remote reachability info embedd=
ed into it. I find it far from optimal which as combined with possible DC p=
refix scale is likely to cause more issues then benefits.=C2=A0</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">That&#39;s why I suggest use of i=
ndirection layer to solve this overall problem. As mentioned one could be L=
ISP or any other SD-WAN solutions.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">R.</div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall"><br></div></div></div></div>

--001a11402d9c524b2305339d3ad3--


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--001a113f1888571bf205339daac7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John, Adrian & Eric,

Btw .. indirection I am suggesting may not only be realized by choice of a
new overlay system.

Alternative design would be to only encode a given's DC "COLOR" or "ID"
into the tunnel encapsulation attribute which would not change for each X
then to establish full mesh EBGP multihop sessions between interesting GWs
with each again carrying the tunnel attribute with same set of "IDs" or
"COLORS" as would do atomic prefixes.

- If such full eBGP mesh would be getting large use of stock BGP Route
Server may be used at any DC or in the backbone.

- Over such sessions single prefixes would be exchanged - something what
you refer to auto discovery routes in current document but those would be
only send over EBGP not IBGP.

- This would also remove any need to run intra-DC auto discovery.

- The connectivity restoration time would be significantly reduced as
multihop BFD may be used (directly or to RS).


The above described proposal changes your current architecture however I
believe it significantly simplifies things, removes the concern of scale
and simplifies or even eliminates any new development needed to deploy it
today provided that given's vendor policy already allows to match routes
with specific attribute payload.

Cheers,
R.

PS. If this game is under same administration (which I think it is based on
the requirements) then to mark the routes use of standard or extended
community can be used instead of tunnel encapsulation attribute.










On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> *[JD]  We were assuming that a) GW/backbone links would be advertised in
>> BGP LS (optionally w/ EPE) and b) a GW that is disconnected from the
>> backbone does not advertise an auto-discovery route.  This will be made
>> explicit in the next revision.  *
>>
>
> =E2=80=8BAd a) - EPE works fine with next hop self on the ASBRs of the ba=
cbone. So
> if your proposal requires external links to be passive in the backbone IG=
P
> then the draft needs to state it well. Besides it may not be sufficient i=
f
> more then one backbone instance is used to interconnect DCs.
>
> Ad b) - The current set of procedures described in section 2 for
> constructing auto discovery routes is not sufficient. GW may be
> interconnected to more then one backbone each serving different set of
> prefixes within each DC (you call it X). So much more would need to go in=
to
> the auto-discovery to make this work in practice. And even if you would g=
o
> that way it will be slow to re-advertise all prefixes with different tunn=
el
> attribute content.
>
> *[JD]   Are you simply repeating the opinion you expressed when the
>> tunnel-encaps draft first came out, or do you have a scalability concern
>> that hasn't already been discussed?*
>>
>>
> =E2=80=8BI am expressing the observation that tunnel-encaps may work well=
 to pass
> static information or information which may change by configiration.
>
> Here you are using it to pass remote reachability info embedded into it. =
I
> find it far from optimal which as combined with possible DC prefix scale =
is
> likely to cause more issues then benefits.
>
> That's why I suggest use of indirection layer to solve this overall
> problem. As mentioned one could be LISP or any other SD-WAN solutions.
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>

--001a113f1888571bf205339daac7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">John, Adrian &amp; Eric,</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Btw .. indirection I am suggesting m=
ay not only be realized by choice of a new overlay system.=C2=A0</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Alternative design would be to o=
nly encode a given&#39;s DC &quot;COLOR&quot; or &quot;ID&quot; into the tu=
nnel encapsulation attribute which would not change for each X then to esta=
blish full mesh EBGP multihop sessions between interesting GWs with each ag=
ain carrying the tunnel attribute with same set of &quot;IDs&quot; or &quot=
;COLORS&quot; as would do atomic prefixes.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small">- If such full eBGP mesh would be getting large =
use of stock BGP Route Server may be used at any DC or in the backbone.=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">- Over such sessio=
ns single prefixes would be exchanged - something what you refer to auto di=
scovery routes in current document but those would be only send over EBGP n=
ot IBGP.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">- This =
would also remove any need to run intra-DC auto discovery.=C2=A0</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">- The connectivity restoration t=
ime would be significantly reduced as multihop BFD may be used (directly or=
 to RS).</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small">The above described proposal changes your current architect=
ure however I believe it significantly simplifies things, removes the conce=
rn of scale and simplifies or even eliminates any new development needed to=
 deploy it today provided that given&#39;s vendor policy already allows to =
match routes with specific attribute payload.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheers,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">R.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">PS. If this game is under same=
 administration (which I think it is based on the requirements) then to mar=
k the routes use of standard or extended community can be used instead of t=
unnel encapsulation attribute.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, =
May 24, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Robert Raszuk <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small=
">Hi John,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div style=3D"border:n=
one;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><span=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[J=
D]=C2=A0 We were assuming that a) GW/backbone links would be advertised in =
BGP LS (optionally w/ EPE) and b) a GW that is disconnected
 from the backbone does not advertise an auto-discovery route.=C2=A0 This w=
ill be made explicit in the next revision. =C2=A0</span></i></b></p></span>=
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">=E2=80=8BAd a) - EPE works fine with next hop self on the ASB=
Rs of the bacbone. So if your proposal requires external links to be passiv=
e in the backbone IGP then the draft needs to state it well. Besides it may=
 not be sufficient if more then one backbone instance is used to interconne=
ct DCs.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Ad b) - =
The current set of procedures described in section 2 for constructing auto =
discovery routes is not sufficient. GW may be interconnected to more then o=
ne backbone each serving different set of prefixes within each DC (you call=
 it X). So much more would need to go into the auto-discovery to make this =
work in practice. And even if you would go that way it will be slow to re-a=
dvertise all prefixes with different tunnel attribute content.=C2=A0</div><=
/div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div la=
ng=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div style=3D"border:none;=
border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[JD]=C2=A0=C2=A0 Are you simply=
 repeating the opinion you expressed when the tunnel-encaps draft first cam=
e out, or do you have a scalability concern that hasn&#39;t
 already been discussed?</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div><span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#1f497d"><u></u></span></p></div></span></div></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif">=E2=80=8BI am expressing the observation that tunnel-enc=
aps may work well to pass static information or information which may chang=
e by configiration.=C2=A0</span><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small">Here you are using it to pass remote reachability info =
embedded into it. I find it far from optimal which as combined with possibl=
e DC prefix scale is likely to cause more issues then benefits.=C2=A0</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">That&#39;s why I suggest us=
e of indirection layer to solve this overall problem. As mentioned one coul=
d be LISP or any other SD-WAN solutions.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">R.</div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small"><br></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113f1888571bf205339daac7--


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Subject: [Idr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-10.txt> (Internet Exchange BGP Route Server) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Inter-Domain Routing WG (idr) to
consider the following document:
- 'Internet Exchange BGP Route Server'
  <draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-10.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2016-06-07. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   This document outlines a specification for multilateral
   interconnections at Internet exchange points (IXPs).  Multilateral
   interconnection is a method of exchanging routing information between
   three or more external BGP speakers using a single intermediate
   broker system, referred to as a route server.  Route servers are
   typically used on shared access media networks, such as Internet
   exchange points (IXPs), to facilitate simplified interconnection
   between multiple Internet routers.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.



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--_000_D36A75FD624ECaceeciscocom_--


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From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> I have read the document and support publication.
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.co=
m
>
> Date: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 4:42 PM
> To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
> Cc: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>, "David Ward (wardd)" <
wardd@cisco.com>
> Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7=
)
>
> This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24
to 6/7). The draft can be found at:
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
>
>

=E2=80=8BI too enjoyed reading this document, and support it's publication.=
=E2=80=8B


>
> In your comments please provide the following information:
>
> 1)      Support/=E2=80=9Dno-support=E2=80=9D of this draft being ready fo=
r publication,
>
> 2)      You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the
implementation to the IDR Wiki
>
>
>
>
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-im=
plementations
>
>
>
> 3)      Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.
>
>
>
> Sue Hares and John Scudder
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

--001a1148b44025815c0533a2ab56
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Acee Lindem (acee=
) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt; I have read the document and support publication. <br>&gt; Thank=
s,<br>&gt; Acee<br>&gt;<br>&gt; From: Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces=
@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt; Date: Tuesday,=
 May 24, 2016 at 4:42 PM<br>&gt; To: IDR List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@iet=
f.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>&gt; Cc: &quot;Keyur Patel (keyupate)&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupate@cisco.com">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot=
;David Ward (wardd)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wardd@cisco.com">wardd@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt; Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-1=
2 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>&gt;<br>&gt; This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-i=
etf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to 6/7). The draft can be found at:<br>=
&gt;<br>&gt; =C2=A0<br>&gt;<br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a><br>&gt;<br>&gt; =C2=A0<div><br>=
</div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8B=
I too enjoyed reading this document, and support it&#39;s publication.=E2=
=80=8B</div><br></div><div><br>&gt;<br>&gt; In your comments please provide=
 the following information:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; 1) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Support/=
=E2=80=9Dno-support=E2=80=9D of this draft being ready for publication,<br>=
&gt;<br>&gt; 2) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You know of an implementation for this =
draft, please report the implementation to the IDR Wiki<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =C2=
=A0<br>&gt;<br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki=
/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/w=
g/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a><br>&gt;<br>=
&gt; =C2=A0<br>&gt;<br>&gt; 3) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Do you have any concerns=
 about extending the BGP messages.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =C2=A0<br>&gt;<br>&gt; S=
ue Hares and John Scudder<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; _________________________=
______________________<br>&gt; Idr mailing list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:I=
dr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>&gt;<br><=
/div></div>

--001a1148b44025815c0533a2ab56--


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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Tue, May 24, 2016 at 11:57:12PM -0400, Christopher Morrow:
> > This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24
> to 6/7). The draft can be found at:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
> >
> >
> 
> ​I too enjoyed reading this document, and support it's publication.​

enjoyed?

I too support publication.


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Support the publication=20

From:  Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com=
>
Date:  Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 1:42 PM
To:  <idr@ietf.org>
Cc:  "keyupate@cisco.com" <keyupate@cisco.com>, "David Ward (wardd)" <wardd=
@cisco.com>
Subject:  [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)

This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to=
 6/7). The draft can be found at:=20

=20

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

In your comments please provide the following information:=20

1)      Support/=E2=80=9Dno-support=E2=80=9D of this draft being ready for publication,

2)      You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the imp=
lementation to the IDR Wiki

=20

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-im=
plementations=20

=20

3)      Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.=20

=20

Sue Hares and John Scudder=20
_______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.o=
rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr 

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ailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Susan =
Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 1:42 PM<br><=
span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">=
idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a href=3D=
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pate@cisco.com">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;, "David Ward (wardd)" &lt;<a href=
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messages/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
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p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><!--[endif]-->Support/&#8221;no-sup=
port&#8221; of this draft being ready for publication,<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--=
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=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/tra=
c/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.=
org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a> <o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo=
2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"fon=
t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: =
7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><!--[endif]-->Do you have any concerns about ext=
ending the BGP messages. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sue Hares and John Scudder <o:p></o:p></p></div><=
/div></div>_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 09:13:55 +0200
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From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
To: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Cc: idr wg list <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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> This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages
> (5/24 to 6/7).

as the new fasion seems to require [co-]authors to 'vote', as a
co-author i support this going to rfc.

randy


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From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:18:46 +0200
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From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to	6/7)
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> Section 4 =E2=80=93 par1: is there a reason why the first =E2=80=98should=
=E2=80=99 is not a
> SHOULD? Same for the =E2=80=98may=E2=80=99?=20

a matter of style.  i don't care; maybe wg will converge on an opinion.

> Section 5 =E2=80=93 par1: When using the more liberal policy, I believe it
> would make sense to indicate a message that an extended message was
> received while it was not expected at all

please be specific.  by "indicate a message" are you suggesting a new
"you sent a surprise" response message?

randy


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inline: GV>

> On 25 May 2016, at 11:18, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Section 4 =E2=80=93 par1: is there a reason why the first =
=E2=80=98should=E2=80=99 is not a
>> SHOULD? Same for the =E2=80=98may=E2=80=99?=20
>=20
> a matter of style.  i don't care; maybe wg will converge on an =
opinion.
>=20
>> Section 5 =E2=80=93 par1: When using the more liberal policy, I =
believe it
>> would make sense to indicate a message that an extended message was
>> received while it was not expected at all
>=20
> please be specific.  by "indicate a message" are you suggesting a new
> "you sent a surprise" response message?
>=20

GV> Yes, indeed=E2=80=A6 something in a syslog or so that the peer sent =
some unexpected packet to alert the ops team to look into it.

G/=


From nobody Wed May 25 02:45:43 2016
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24	to	6/7)
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>>> Section 5 =E2=80=93 par1: When using the more liberal policy, I believe=
 it
>>> would make sense to indicate a message that an extended message was
>>> received while it was not expected at all
>>=20
>> please be specific.  by "indicate a message" are you suggesting a new
>> "you sent a surprise" response message?
>=20
> Yes, indeed=E2=80=A6 something in a syslog or so that the peer sent some
> unexpected packet to alert the ops team to look into it.

so you do not mean a bgp message, but rather that errors should be
logged and maybe an snmp trap raised.  so, if we start to add a short
sentence or paragraph on this to the end of section 5, how far do you
want to go?  is there something to which we could point?

randy


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To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Gunter Van De Velde <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com>
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'" <keyupate@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Hi,


1)      Support.


2)      Question, for my own information: why does the capability mean that=
 the BGP speaker is capable of _both_  receiving _and sending_ extend messa=
ge? (vs capable of receiving (only)). IOTW, what is the motivation to adver=
tise the capacity to send extended message?


3)      Please find below some possible comments:


"4.  Operation"

Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can't r=
elay to some peers because they don't support such extension, while I "shou=
ld" have relayed it. Is there an expected behavior? Should it be standardiz=
ed? Can this create issues (e.g. inconsistent routing with an AS)? Should t=
his be considered in the security considerations? (e.g. I deliberately send=
 an extended message, and benefit from its/the NLRI not being propagated as=
 expected. e.g. to influence routing policy)

--

"A BGP speaker may send extended messages to its peer only if it has receiv=
ed the Extended Message Capability from its peer."

May be :s/received/sent and received
---

"   A BGP speaker that has the ability to use extended messages but has

   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due

   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an extended message.  A speaker

   MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept extended messages even

   from a peer that has not advertised the capability."

I would a priori have assumed that both sentences be related. But in fact t=
hey are not since the first sentence only refers to the sending of the capa=
bility, while the second only refers to the reception of the capability. Sh=
ouldn't both sentences be extended to cover both the sending and the receiv=
ing?
--


"A speaker that treats an improper extended message as a

   fatal error, as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do

   likewise. >
I'm sorry but I don't understand this sentence. What does that mean to "tre=
at an improper extended message as a fatal error"? e.g. If I receive an ext=
ended message with a syntax error requiring to send an NOTIFICATION (e.g. m=
ore than one MP_REACH_NLRI)  is this considered an improper extended messag=
e with a fatal error? If so the text seems wrong as bgp speaker must not do=
 "likewise" (seems to refer to "reset the session   with a Bad Message Leng=
th NOTIFICATION")

Also "as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do likewise" seems not =
precise enough to me (at least as a non-native English speaker). Which exac=
tly is this preceding paragraph describing this "treats an improper extende=
d message as a fatal error"

---

7.  IANA Considerations

"The IANA is requested to register a new BGP Capability Code to be named BG=
P Extended Message Capability >

I'm not sure about the formulation since IANA has already registered this c=
apability as TEMPORARY.



"TBD      BGP-Extended Message"

At least I would expect that the document ask for the _same_ value (6) rath=
er than TBD.





Thanks,

Regards,

Bruno


From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:42 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'
Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)

This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to=
 6/7). The draft can be found at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

In your comments please provide the following information:

1)      Support/"no-support" of this draft being ready for publication,

2)      You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the imp=
lementation to the IDR Wiki

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-im=
plementations


3)      Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.

Sue Hares and John Scudder

___________________________________________________________________________=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"=
mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Support.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Question, for my own information: why does the capability mean that the BG=
P speaker is capable of _<i>both</i>_ &nbsp;receiving _<i>and sending</i>_ =
extend message? (vs capable of receiving
 (only)). IOTW, what is the motivation to advertise the capacity to send ex=
tended message?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Please find below some possible comments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;4.&nbsp; Operation&#8221;<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e=
.g. update) that I can&#8217;t relay to some peers because they don&#8217;t=
 support such extension, while I &#8220;should&#8221; have relayed it. Is t=
here an expected behavior? Should it be standardized? Can this create issue=
s (e.g. inconsistent routing with an AS)? Should this be considered in the =
security considerations? (e.g. I deliberately send an extended message, and=
 benefit from its/the NLRI not being propagated as expected. e.g. to influe=
nce routing policy) <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">--<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&#8220;A BGP speaker may send extended messages t=
o its peer only if it has received the Extended Message Capability from its=
 peer.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">May be </span><span lang=3D"EN-US">:s/receive=
d/sent and received<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">---<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP speaker that has the ab=
ility to use extended messages but has<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; not advertised the BGP Extended Mess=
ages capability, presumably due<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept =
an extended message.&nbsp; A speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY implement a more liberal policy =
and accept extended messages even<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; from a peer that has not advertised =
the capability.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I would=
 a priori have assumed that both sentences be related. But in fact they are=
 not since the first sentence only refers to the sending of the capability,=
 while the second only refers to the reception
 of the capability. Shouldn&#8217;t both sentences be extended to cover bot=
h the sending and the receiving?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">--<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&#8220;A speaker that treats an improper extended=
 message as a<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; fatal error, as described in the pre=
ceding paragraph, MUST do<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; likewise.&nbsp;&raquo;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I&#8217=
;m sorry but I don&#8217;t understand this sentence. What does that mean to=
 &#8220;treat an improper extended message as a fatal error&#8221;? e.g. If=
 I receive an extended message with a syntax error requiring to
 send an NOTIFICATION (e.g. more than one MP_REACH_NLRI) &nbsp;is this cons=
idered an improper extended message with a fatal error? If so the text seem=
s wrong as bgp speaker must not do &#8220;likewise&#8221; (seems to refer t=
o &#8220;reset the session&nbsp;&nbsp; with a Bad Message Length
 NOTIFICATION&#8221;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Also &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">as de=
scribed in the preceding paragraph, MUST do likewise&#8221; </span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D">seems not precise enough to me (at least as a non-native E=
nglish speaker). Which exactly is this preceding paragraph describing this =
&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">treats an improper extended message as a=
 fatal error</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">---<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">7</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">.&nbsp; IANA Con=
siderations</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&#8220;The IANA is requested to register a new BG=
P Capability Code to be named BGP Extended Message Capability&nbsp;&raquo;<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;m not sure about the formulation sinc=
e IANA has already registered this capability as TEMPORARY.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&#8220;TBD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP-Exte=
nded Message&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">At least I would expect that the document ask=
 for the _<i>same</i>_ value (6) rather than TBD.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 t=
o 6/7)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG LC on d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to 6/7). The draft can be found a=
t:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/">https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In your comments please provide=
 the following information:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Support/&#8221;no-suppo=
rt&#8221; of this draft being ready for publication,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">You know of an implemen=
tation for this draft, please report the implementation to the IDR Wiki<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a=
 href=3D"https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-=
ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Do you have any concern=
s about extending the BGP messages.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sue Hares and John Scudder <o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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>    Since the Non-Critical error handling required within this section
>    results in no NOTIFICATION message being transmitted, the fact that
>    an error has occurred, and there may be inconsistency between the
>    local and remote BGP speaker MUST be flagged to the network operator
>    through standard operational interfaces (e.g., SNMP, syslog).  The
>    information highlighted MUST include the NLRI identified to be
>    contained within the error message, and SHOULD contain a exact copy
>    of the received message for further analysis.

so, to remove all the flowery language, a third para in sec 5,

     The inconsistency between the local and remote BGP speakers MUST be
     reported via syslog and/or SNMP.

randy


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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a113f18889d5ac60533a83937
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Hi Bruno,

Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can=E2=
=80=99t relay
>
> to some peers because they don=E2=80=99t support such extension, while I =
=E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D have
>
> relayed it.
>
>
=E2=80=8BBGP does not "relay" messages .. do you have some new BGP draft in=
 mind
which would work as BGP "repeater" ? While I recall we discussed it in the
past that work were pretty much abandoned :)

BGP generates messages at each BGP speaker so the above seems like non
issue to me for this draft.

=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8BBest,
R.

For the draft itself: Support =E2=80=8Bfrom me.

--001a113f18889d5ac60533a83937
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Bruno,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><pre><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. upd=
ate) that I can=E2=80=99t relay </span></pre></div></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><=
div><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">to some peers because they don=E2=80=99t supp=
ort such extension, while I =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D have </span></pre></di=
v></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=
=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">relayed it. </spa=
n></pre></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=
=80=8BBGP does not &quot;relay&quot; messages .. do you have some new BGP d=
raft in mind which would work as BGP &quot;repeater&quot; ? While I recall =
we discussed it in the past that work were pretty much abandoned :)</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">BGP generates messages at eac=
h BGP speaker so the above seems like non issue to me for this draft.=C2=A0=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:small">=E2=80=8BBest,<br>R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">For the draft itself: Support =E2=80=8Bfrom me.=C2=A0<br></di=
v><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

--001a113f18889d5ac60533a83937--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:46:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11c3b2b4aa2f750533a946ef
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Hi AC,

Yes indeed - you are right - I was a bit hit with "relay" term :).

And since this entire work started with the assumption that packing per
NLRI will be broken anyway one could expect this to be always the case.

So it does look like a bit of show stopper to me unless we enforce that if
there is at least one BGP peer on given BGP speaker not supporting 64K all
sessions will get reset to 4K max. Ugly but not sure what other options can
address it. Perhaps authors will come up with better one.

Thx,
R.



On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

>
>
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <
> robert@raszuk.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:34 AM
> To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Cc: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org=
>,
> Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to
> 6/7)
>
> Hi Bruno,
>
> Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can=
=E2=80=99t relay
>>
>> to some peers because they don=E2=80=99t support such extension, while I=
 =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D have
>>
>> relayed it.
>>
>>
> =E2=80=8BBGP does not "relay" messages .. do you have some new BGP draft =
in mind
> which would work as BGP "repeater" ? While I recall we discussed it in th=
e
> past that work were pretty much abandoned :)
>
> BGP generates messages at each BGP speaker so the above seems like non
> issue to me for this draft.
>
>
> A non-issue unless the size of a single NLRI and its attributes exceeds
> 4K.
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B
> =E2=80=8BBest,
> R.
>
> For the draft itself: Support =E2=80=8Bfrom me.
>
>
>
>
>

--001a11c3b2b4aa2f750533a946ef
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi AC,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">Yes indeed - you are right - I was a bit hit with &quo=
t;relay&quot; term :).=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">And since this entire work started with the assumption that packin=
g per NLRI will be broken anyway one could expect this to be always the cas=
e.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">So it does lo=
ok like a bit of show stopper to me unless we enforce that if there is at l=
east one BGP peer on given BGP speaker not supporting 64K all sessions will=
 get reset to 4K max. Ugly but not sure what other options can address it. =
Perhaps authors will come up with better one.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">R.</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Ac=
ee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf=
 of Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank=
">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:=
34 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Keyur Patel (keyupate)&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;, IDR List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Hi Bruno,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e=
.g. update) that I can=E2=80=99t relay </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">to some peers because they don=E2=80=99t support =
such extension, while I =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D have </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">relayed it. </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BBGP does not &quot;relay&quot; messages .. do you have some new BG=
P draft in mind which would work as BGP &quot;repeater&quot; ? While I reca=
ll we discussed it in the past that work were pretty much abandoned :)</div=
>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
BGP generates messages at each BGP speaker so the above seems like non issu=
e to me for this draft.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A non-issue unless the size of a single NLRI and its attributes exceed=
s 4K.=C2=A0</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8B</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BBest,<br>
R.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
For the draft itself: Support =E2=80=8Bfrom me.=C2=A0<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</span></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c3b2b4aa2f750533a946ef--


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Cc: "Keyur Patel \(keyupate\)" <keyupate@cisco.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11402d9ce6fd2f0533a95340
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>
>
> =E2=80=8BBGP does not "relay" messages ..
>
>
>
> My mistake. Would =E2=80=9Cpropagate=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cre-advertise=E2=
=80=9D or =E2=80=9Creflect=E2=80=9D be a better
> term for you?
>


=E2=80=8BYup.=E2=80=8B



>
> do you have some new BGP draft in mind which would work as BGP "repeater"=
 ?
>
>
>
> Let=E2=80=99s consider RFC 4456 (BGP Route Reflection). If some iBGP clie=
nts do
> not advertise this behavior, they will not receive the internal routes
> advertised by the iBGP clients sending extended messages. Hence, all iBGP
> routers do not have a consistent knowledge of the internal routers.
>


=E2=80=8BWell that would be drastic. Perhaps lighter option would be to dro=
p
largest optional attributes, but I am not sure if I like such swiss cheese
solution.

Yes another option would be to have this knobbed for few years and enable
only by NOC when all routers support it. =E2=80=8B

Automatic incremental deployment =E2=80=8Bis bit hard in network wide enhan=
cements
:))

Thx,
r.

--001a11402d9ce6fd2f0533a95340
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">=
<div><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm=
 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><div><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>=
=E2=80=8BBGP does not &quot;relay&quot; messages ..<span style=3D"color:#1f=
497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">My =
mistake. Would =E2=80=9Cpropagate=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cre-advertise=E2=80=
=9D or =E2=80=9Creflect=E2=80=9D be a better term for you?</span></p></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BYup.=E2=80=8B</div><br></div><di=
v><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" v=
link=3D"purple"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt=
;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><span c=
lass=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">do you have some new BGP draft in mind whic=
h would work as BGP &quot;repeater&quot; ?<span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Let=
=E2=80=99s consider RFC 4456 (BGP Route Reflection). If some iBGP clients d=
o not advertise this behavior, they will not receive the internal routes
 advertised by the iBGP clients sending extended messages. Hence, all iBGP =
routers do not have a consistent knowledge of the internal routers.</span><=
/p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BWell that would be dras=
tic. Perhaps lighter option would be to drop largest optional attributes, b=
ut I am not sure if I like such swiss cheese solution.=C2=A0</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Yes another option would be to have =
this knobbed for few years and enable only by NOC when all routers support =
it. =E2=80=8B</div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Automatic incremental =
deployment =E2=80=8Bis bit hard in network wide enhancements :))</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">r.<=
/div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

--001a11402d9ce6fd2f0533a95340--


From nobody Wed May 25 07:23:10 2016
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:22:44 +0200
From: Marco Marzetti <marco@lamehost.it>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-10.txt> (Internet Exchange BGP Route Server) to Proposed Standard
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On 2016-05-25 00:43, The IESG wrote:
> The IESG has received a request from the Inter-Domain Routing WG (idr) 
> to
> consider the following document:
> - 'Internet Exchange BGP Route Server'
>   <draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-10.txt> as Proposed Standard
> 
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2016-06-07. Exceptionally, comments may 
> be
> sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> 
> Abstract
> 
> 
>    This document outlines a specification for multilateral
>    interconnections at Internet exchange points (IXPs).  Multilateral
>    interconnection is a method of exchanging routing information 
> between
>    three or more external BGP speakers using a single intermediate
>    broker system, referred to as a route server.  Route servers are
>    typically used on shared access media networks, such as Internet
>    exchange points (IXPs), to facilitate simplified interconnection
>    between multiple Internet routers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file can be obtained via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/
> 
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server/ballot/
> 
> 
> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

All,

Beside i agree on the most part of this draft i would like to underline 
how bullet 2.2.2 breaks the the nature of BGP itself.

The exact part i am referring to is:
"""
  As a route server does not participate in the process of forwarding
    data between client routers, and because modification of the AS_PATH
    attribute could affect route server client BGP Decision Process, the
    route server SHOULD NOT prepend its own AS number to the AS_PATH
    segment nor modify the AS_PATH segment in any other way.
"""

I firmly think that it really has to state "MUST NOT" instead of "SHOULD 
NOT".

 From a route-server client point of view that breaks the natural BGP 
best selection process and forces you to purely rely on LOCAL_PREFERENCE 
which in turns breaks your traffic engineering because it forces you to 
prefer/not-prefer the prefixes learned over the route server in place of 
those learned, for instance, over a private session or another IXP.

Regards

-- 
Marco


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Cc: "Keyur Patel \(keyupate\)" <keyupate@cisco.com>, Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11c341a8186e250533ac223b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=E2=80=8BIt will result in a permanent control plane loop =E2=80=8Bif such =
dropped NLRI on
IBGP is a more specific entry.

Even if according to your judgement it may be classified as "extremely
rare" I do not think IETF spec should take such risk.

Best,
R.



On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> From: <rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 7:50 AM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" =
<
> keyupate@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.co=
m
> >
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to
> 6/7)
>
> Hi AC,
>
> Yes indeed - you are right - I was a bit hit with "relay" term :).
>
> And since this entire work started with the assumption that packing per
> NLRI will be broken anyway one could expect this to be always the case.
>
> So it does look like a bit of show stopper to me unless we enforce that i=
f
> there is at least one BGP peer on given BGP speaker not supporting 64K al=
l
> sessions will get reset to 4K max. Ugly but not sure what other options c=
an
> address it. Perhaps authors will come up with better one.
>
>
> Since this is likely to be an extremely rare occurrence, I=E2=80=99d simp=
ly not
> advertise the NLRI to a peer not supporting extended messages and log the
> error.
>
> Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI
> exceeding 4K.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <
>> robert@raszuk.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:34 AM
>> To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>> Cc: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.or=
g>,
>> Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24
>> to 6/7)
>>
>> Hi Bruno,
>>
>> Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can=
=E2=80=99t relay
>>>
>>> to some peers because they don=E2=80=99t support such extension, while =
I =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D have
>>>
>>> relayed it.
>>>
>>>
>> =E2=80=8BBGP does not "relay" messages .. do you have some new BGP draft=
 in mind
>> which would work as BGP "repeater" ? While I recall we discussed it in t=
he
>> past that work were pretty much abandoned :)
>>
>> BGP generates messages at each BGP speaker so the above seems like non
>> issue to me for this draft.
>>
>>
>> A non-issue unless the size of a single NLRI and its attributes exceeds
>> 4K.
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>> =E2=80=8B
>> =E2=80=8BBest,
>> R.
>>
>> For the draft itself: Support =E2=80=8Bfrom me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--001a11c341a8186e250533ac223b
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BI=
t will result in a permanent control plane loop =E2=80=8Bif such dropped NL=
RI on IBGP is a more specific entry.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">Even if according to your judgement it may be classifi=
ed as &quot;extremely rare&quot; I do not think IETF spec should take such =
risk.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,<br>R=
.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 =
at 4:29 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Robert,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>&gt; on behalf of Robert=
 Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@r=
aszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 7:=
50 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>&gt;, &quot;Keyur Patel (keyupate)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupat=
e@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;, IDR List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">share=
s@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</span></div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Hi AC,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Yes indeed - you are right - I was a bit hit with &quot;relay&quot; term :)=
.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
And since this entire work started with the assumption that packing per NLR=
I will be broken anyway one could expect this to be always the case.=C2=A0<=
/div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
So it does look like a bit of show stopper to me unless we enforce that if =
there is at least one BGP peer on given BGP speaker not supporting 64K all =
sessions will get reset to 4K max. Ugly but not sure what other options can=
 address it. Perhaps authors will
 come up with better one.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since this is likely to be an extremely rare occurrence, I=E2=80=99d s=
imply not advertise the NLRI to a peer not supporting extended messages and=
 log the error. =C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI exce=
eding 4K.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div><span class=3D"">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Thx,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
R.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Acee Lindem (ac=
ee) <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf=
 of Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank=
">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:=
34 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Keyur Patel (keyupate)&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;, IDR List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Hi Bruno,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e=
.g. update) that I can=E2=80=99t relay </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">to some peers because they don=E2=80=99t support =
such extension, while I =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D have </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">relayed it. </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BBGP does not &quot;relay&quot; messages .. do you have some new BG=
P draft in mind which would work as BGP &quot;repeater&quot; ? While I reca=
ll we discussed it in the past that work were pretty much abandoned :)</div=
>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
BGP generates messages at each BGP speaker so the above seems like non issu=
e to me for this draft.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A non-issue unless the size of a single NLRI and its attributes exceed=
s 4K.=C2=A0</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0=
 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8B</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BBest,<br>
R.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
For the draft itself: Support =E2=80=8Bfrom me.=C2=A0<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</span></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c341a8186e250533ac223b--


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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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+1. Support as a co-author.

On 5/25/16, 12:13 AM, "Randy Bush" <randy@psg.com> wrote:

>> This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages
>> (5/24 to 6/7).
>
>as the new fasion seems to require [co-]authors to 'vote', as a
>co-author i support this going to rfc.
>
>randy
>
>_______________________________________________
>Idr mailing list
>Idr@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:34:24 +0000
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References: <037f01d1b5fc$bfb596f0$3f20c4d0$@ndzh.com> <13146_1464170675_574578B3_13146_4888_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F8CD227@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERmdpCmCsP-5_NsLH6pbay4zaXMpjGJP2S3z8gfAAXZR8A@mail.gmail.com> <20520_1464176764_5745907C_20520_692_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F8CD7B8@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERn+ZaSexv5r9LU6AQ5wH-RgV4hhazPVJBL-SA1h6wtEyA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:35:01 +0000
Message-ID: <D36B1406.4080E%keyupate@cisco.com>
References: <037f01d1b5fc$bfb596f0$3f20c4d0$@ndzh.com> <13146_1464170675_574578B3_13146_4888_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F8CD227@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERmdpCmCsP-5_NsLH6pbay4zaXMpjGJP2S3z8gfAAXZR8A@mail.gmail.com> <D36B06A7.6257D%acee@cisco.com> <CA+b+ERkioULCYg_HQK9qqN+wjiapTZxK7nHWLGaq_=8wfxajsA@mail.gmail.com> <D36B2E2D.625D3%acee@cisco.com>
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Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--_000_D36B14064080Ekeyupateciscocom_--


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To: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11c36ed6f1ef160533ac99c1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI
> exceeding 4K.
>
> #Keyur: Yep. I agree. :)
>

=E2=80=8BThe entire idea for this draft was triggered by the fear that BGPS=
ec may
not fit to 4K update msg.

The draft explicitly states so as a motivation for this work.

Section 1

   "As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and newer capabilities
(e.g.,
   [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-overview]), there is a need to extend the maximum
message
   size beyond 4096 octets."

=E2=80=8BNow in turn the referenced draft clearly defines that NLRI will on=
ly
contain single prefix:

Section 3.2

   "When a BGP speaker originates a BGPsec update message, it creates a
   BGPsec_Path attribute containing a single signature. The signature
   protects the Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI), the AS
   number of the originating AS, and the AS number of the peer AS to
   whom the update message is being sent. Note that the NLRI in a BGPsec
   update message is restricted to contain only a single prefix."

Question:

=E2=80=8BSo what exactly are we to discourage here because clearly not "gen=
eration
of single NLRI exceeding 4K" ?

Maybe deployment of BGPSec till all BGP routers in the world support this
new extended message size ?

Thx,
R.
=E2=80=8B

--001a11c36ed6f1ef160533ac99c1
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(=
0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span><span class=3D"=
"><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div>Additionally, we could discourage the g=
eneration of a single NLRI exceeding 4K.=C2=A0<br></div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur: Yep. I agree. :)</div>
<div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=
=8BThe entire idea for this draft was triggered by the fear that BGPSec may=
 not fit to 4K update msg.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small">The draft explicitly states so as a motivation for this work.=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Section 1</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><div class=3D"gmail_default">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and newer =
capabilities (e.g.,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.iet=
f-sidr-bgpsec-overview]), there is a need to extend the maximum message=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0size beyond 4096 octets.=
&quot;</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,h=
elvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B=
Now in turn the referenced draft clearly defines that NLRI will only contai=
n single prefix:=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
>Section 3.2</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,h=
elvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;When a BGP speaker originates a BGPs=
ec update message, it creates a</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0BGPsec_Path attribute containing a single signature. The signature</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0protects the Network Layer Rea=
chability Information (NLRI), the AS</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0number of the originating AS, and the AS number of the peer AS to=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0whom the update message is =
being sent. Note that the NLRI in a BGPsec</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
">=C2=A0 =C2=A0update message is restricted to contain only a single prefix=
.&quot;</div></div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Question:</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BSo what exactly are we to=
 discourage here because clearly not &quot;generation of single NLRI exceed=
ing 4K&quot; ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">M=
aybe deployment of BGPSec till all BGP routers in the world support this ne=
w extended message size ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B=
</div></div></div></div></div>

--001a11c36ed6f1ef160533ac99c1--


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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
Thread-Index: AQHRtp08K/E7XomEXUSbCzMdYMvGjQ==
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:51:01 +0000
Message-ID: <D36B17B7.40835%keyupate@cisco.com>
References: <037f01d1b5fc$bfb596f0$3f20c4d0$@ndzh.com> <13146_1464170675_574578B3_13146_4888_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0F8CD227@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CA+b+ERmdpCmCsP-5_NsLH6pbay4zaXMpjGJP2S3z8gfAAXZR8A@mail.gmail.com> <D36B06A7.6257D%acee@cisco.com> <CA+b+ERkioULCYg_HQK9qqN+wjiapTZxK7nHWLGaq_=8wfxajsA@mail.gmail.com> <D36B2E2D.625D3%acee@cisco.com> <D36B1406.4080E%keyupate@cisco.com> <CA+b+ERm0p7-tHJmo5CWDu2ZAOcMsngf84K6wRnn6Doa16QyRzQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--_000_D36B17B740835keyupateciscocom_--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
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Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11400b424efcd90533acb118
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=E2=80=8BYou missed the scenario I am afraid :)

R1 --- RR --- R2


R1 and RR support extended message ... R2 does not.

So R1 sends to RR NLRI with attributes exceeding 4K as he has no clue who
is behind RR and what they support.

How RR is supposed to pass this prefix with bunch of attributes larger then
4K to R2 ?

Best,
R.
=E2=80=8B

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Keyur Patel (keyupate) <keyupate@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> I thought the context of that line =E2=80=9Cnot generating single NLRI if
> attributes exceed 4K=E2=80=9D was for peers not supporting extended messa=
ges.
>
> Otherwise its a moot point. :)
> Regards,
> Keyur
>
> From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 8:48 AM
> To: Keyur Patel <keyupate@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.co=
m
> >
> Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <
> idr@ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to
> 6/7)
>
>
>
>> Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI
>> exceeding 4K.
>>
>> #Keyur: Yep. I agree. :)
>>
>
> =E2=80=8BThe entire idea for this draft was triggered by the fear that BG=
PSec may
> not fit to 4K update msg.
>
> The draft explicitly states so as a motivation for this work.
>
> Section 1
>
>    "As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and newer capabilities
> (e.g.,
>    [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-overview]), there is a need to extend the maximu=
m
> message
>    size beyond 4096 octets."
>
> =E2=80=8BNow in turn the referenced draft clearly defines that NLRI will =
only
> contain single prefix:
>
> Section 3.2
>
>    "When a BGP speaker originates a BGPsec update message, it creates a
>    BGPsec_Path attribute containing a single signature. The signature
>    protects the Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI), the AS
>    number of the originating AS, and the AS number of the peer AS to
>    whom the update message is being sent. Note that the NLRI in a BGPsec
>    update message is restricted to contain only a single prefix."
>
> Question:
>
> =E2=80=8BSo what exactly are we to discourage here because clearly not "g=
eneration
> of single NLRI exceeding 4K" ?
>
> Maybe deployment of BGPSec till all BGP routers in the world support this
> new extended message size ?
>
> Thx,
> R.
> =E2=80=8B
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>

--001a11400b424efcd90533acb118
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BY=
ou missed the scenario I am afraid :)=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">R1 --- RR --- R2</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">R1 and RR support extended me=
ssage ... R2 does not.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">So R1 sends to RR NLRI with attributes exceeding 4K as he has no c=
lue who is behind RR and what they support. <br><br></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small=
">How RR is supposed to pass this prefix with bunch of attributes larger th=
en 4K to R2 ?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B</div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 a=
t 5:51 PM, Keyur Patel (keyupate) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:k=
eyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Robert,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought the context of that line =E2=80=9Cnot generating single NLRI=
 if attributes exceed 4K=E2=80=9D was for peers not supporting extended mes=
sages.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Otherwise its a moot point. :)</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Keyur</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 8:=
48 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Keyur Patel &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:keyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;=
Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=
=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span><span>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI exce=
eding 4K.=C2=A0<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur: Yep. I agree. :)</div>
<div></div>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BThe entire idea for this draft was triggered by the fear that BGPS=
ec may not fit to 4K update msg.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
The draft explicitly states so as a motivation for this work.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Section 1</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;As BGP is extended to suppo=
rt newer AFI/SAFIs and newer capabilities (e.g.,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-overview]),=
 there is a need to extend the maximum message=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0size beyond 4096 octets.&quot;</d=
iv>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BNow in turn the referenced draft clearly defines that NLRI will on=
ly contain single prefix:=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Section 3.2</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;When a BGP speaker originat=
es a BGPsec update message, it creates a</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0BGPsec_Path attribute containing =
a single signature. The signature</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0protects the Network Layer Reacha=
bility Information (NLRI), the AS</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0number of the originating AS, and=
 the AS number of the peer AS to</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0whom the update message is being =
sent. Note that the NLRI in a BGPsec</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0update message is restricted to c=
ontain only a single prefix.&quot;</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Question:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BSo what exactly are we to discourage here because clearly not &quo=
t;generation of single NLRI exceeding 4K&quot; ?=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Maybe deployment of BGPSec till all BGP routers in the world support this n=
ew extended message size ?=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Thx,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
R.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8B</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11400b424efcd90533acb118--


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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--_000_D36B14EC40818keyupateciscocom_
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Hi Bruno,

Many thanks for the review. Comments inlined #Keyur

From: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orang=
e.com>>
Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:04 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>, Keyur Patel <key=
upate@cisco.com<mailto:keyupate@cisco.com>>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>" <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6=
/7)

Hi,


1)      Support.


2)      Question, for my own information: why does the capability mean that=
 the BGP speaker is capable of _both_  receiving _and sending_ extend messa=
ge? (vs capable of receiving (only)). IOTW, what is the motivation to adver=
tise the capacity to send extended message?


3)      Please find below some possible comments:


=934.  Operation=94

Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can=92t=
 relay to some peers because they don=92t support such extension, while I =
=93should=94 have relayed it. Is there an expected behavior? Should it be s=
tandardized? Can this create issues (e.g. inconsistent routing with an AS)?=
 Should this be considered in the security considerations? (e.g. I delibera=
tely send an extended message, and benefit from its/the NLRI not being prop=
agated as expected. e.g. to influence routing policy)


#Keyur: Clients would receive internal routes as long as a RR can announce =
prefixes using existing message length (of 4K). It would be using multiple =
messages limited to 4K length.  Alternatively, if the attribute size is suc=
h that the message length does get exceeded then the Prefix SHOULD not be a=
nnounced and an error should be logged (existing case).


--

=93A BGP speaker may send extended messages to its peer only if it has rece=
ived the Extended Message Capability from its peer.=94

May be :s/received/sent and received
---
#Keyur: A capability announcement indicates an ability to "receive and pars=
e" extended messages. In that context =93receive=94 is good enough?



=93   A BGP speaker that has the ability to use extended messages but has

   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due

   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an extended message.  A speaker

   MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept extended messages even

   from a peer that has not advertised the capability.=94

I would a priori have assumed that both sentences be related. But in fact t=
hey are not since the first sentence only refers to the sending of the capa=
bility, while the second only refers to the reception of the capability. Sh=
ouldn=92t both sentences be extended to cover both the sending and the rece=
iving?
--
#Keyur: We wanted to be explicit in error handling section. :) Again, the c=
apability meaning is to be able to =93receive and parse=94.



=93A speaker that treats an improper extended message as a

   fatal error, as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do

   likewise. =BB
I=92m sorry but I don=92t understand this sentence. What does that mean to =
=93treat an improper extended message as a fatal error=94? e.g. If I receiv=
e an extended message with a syntax error requiring to send an NOTIFICATION=
 (e.g. more than one MP_REACH_NLRI)  is this considered an improper extende=
d message with a fatal error? If so the text seems wrong as bgp speaker mus=
t not do =93likewise=94 (seems to refer to =93reset the session   with a Ba=
d Message Length NOTIFICATION=94)

Also =93as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do likewise=94 seems =
not precise enough to me (at least as a non-native English speaker). Which =
exactly is this preceding paragraph describing this =93treats an improper e=
xtended message as a fatal error=94

---

#Keyur:  The text is meant for a BGP speaker that doesn=92t announce extend=
ed message capability AND doesn=92t support extended messages implementatio=
n (old style peer). Such a peer would consider a receipt of an extended mes=
sage as a malformed message.


7.  IANA Considerations

=93The IANA is requested to register a new BGP Capability Code to be named =
BGP Extended Message Capability =BB

I=92m not sure about the formulation since IANA has already registered this=
 capability as TEMPORARY.



=93TBD      BGP-Extended Message=94

At least I would expect that the document ask for the _same_ value (6) rath=
er than TBD.

#Keyur: Ack.

Regards,
Keyur




Thanks,

Regards,

Bruno


From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:42 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Cc: 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'
Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)

This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to=
 6/7). The draft can be found at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

In your comments please provide the following information:

1)      Support/=94no-support=94 of this draft being ready for publication,

2)      You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the imp=
lementation to the IDR Wiki

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-im=
plementations


3)      Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.

Sue Hares and John Scudder

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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--_000_D36B14EC40818keyupateciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi Bruno,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many thanks for the review. Comments inlined #Keyur</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:=
04 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;, Keyur Patel &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:keyupate@cisco.com">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@iet=
f.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: nor=
mal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family:=
 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Support.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F49=
7D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; fo=
nt-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: norma=
l; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F4=
97D">Question, for my own information: why does the capability mean that th=
e BGP speaker is capable of _<i>both</i>_ &nbsp;receiving _<i>and sending</=
i>_ extend message? (vs capable of receiving
 (only)). IOTW, what is the motivation to advertise the capacity to send ex=
tended message?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F49=
7D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; fo=
nt-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: norma=
l; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F4=
97D">Please find below some possible comments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">=934.&nbsp; Operation=94<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e=
.g. update) that I can=92t relay to some peers because they don=92t support=
 such extension, while I =93should=94 have relayed it. Is there an expected=
 behavior? Should it be standardized? Can this create issues (e.g. inconsis=
tent routing with an AS)? Should this be considered in the security conside=
rations? (e.g. I deliberately send an extended message, and benefit from it=
s/the NLRI not being propagated as expected. e.g. to influence routing poli=
cy) <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur: Clients would receive internal routes as long as a RR can anno=
unce prefixes using existing message length (of 4K). It would be using mult=
iple messages limited to 4K length. &nbsp;Alternatively, if the attribute s=
ize is such that the message length does
 get exceeded then the Prefix SHOULD not be announced and an error should b=
e logged (existing case).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">--<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=93A BGP speaker may send extended messages to it=
s peer only if it has received the Extended Message Capability from its pee=
r.=94<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">May be </span><span lang=3D"EN-US">:s/received/sent and=
 received<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">---</sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>#Keyur: A capability announcement indicates an ability to &quot;receiv=
e and parse&quot; extended messages. In that context =93receive=94 is good =
enough?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=93&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP speaker that has the abilit=
y to use extended messages but has<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; not advertised the BGP Extended Mess=
ages capability, presumably due<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept =
an extended message.&nbsp; A speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY implement a more liberal policy =
and accept extended messages even<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; from a peer that has not advertised =
the capability.=94<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I would=
 a priori have assumed that both sentences be related. But in fact they are=
 not since the first sentence only refers to the sending of the capability,=
 while the second only refers to the reception
 of the capability. Shouldn=92t both sentences be extended to cover both th=
e sending and the receiving?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">--<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>#Keyur: We wanted to be explicit in error handling section. :) Again, =
the capability meaning is to be able to =93receive and parse=94.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=93A speaker that treats an improper extended mes=
sage as a<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; fatal error, as described in the pre=
ceding paragraph, MUST do<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; likewise.&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I=92m s=
orry but I don=92t understand this sentence. What does that mean to =93trea=
t an improper extended message as a fatal error=94? e.g. If I receive an ex=
tended message with a syntax error requiring to
 send an NOTIFICATION (e.g. more than one MP_REACH_NLRI) &nbsp;is this cons=
idered an improper extended message with a fatal error? If so the text seem=
s wrong as bgp speaker must not do =93likewise=94 (seems to refer to =93res=
et the session&nbsp;&nbsp; with a Bad Message Length
 NOTIFICATION=94)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">Also =93</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">as described in the=
 preceding paragraph, MUST do likewise=94 </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">seems not p=
recise enough to me (at least as a non-native English speaker). Which exact=
ly is this preceding paragraph describing this =93</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">treats an improper extended message as a fatal error</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
">=94<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">---</span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur: &nbsp;The text is meant for a BGP speaker that doesn=92t annou=
nce extended message capability AND doesn=92t support extended messages imp=
lementation (old style peer). Such a peer would consider a receipt of an ex=
tended message as a malformed message.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">7</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">.&nbsp; IANA Consideration=
s</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=93The IANA is requested to register a new BGP Ca=
pability Code to be named BGP Extended Message Capability&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:=
p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">I=92m not sure about the formulation since IANA has alr=
eady registered this capability as TEMPORARY.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=93TBD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP-Extended=
 Message=94<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">At least I would expect that the document ask for the _=
<i>same</i>_ value (6) rather than TBD.</span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur: Ack.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Keyur</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><br></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fo=
nt-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> Idr [<a href=3D"mai=
lto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 t=
o 6/7)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG LC on d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to 6/7). The draft can be found a=
t:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/">https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In your comments please provide=
 the following information:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font=
-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N=
ew Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-US">Support/=94no-suppo=
rt=94 of this draft being ready for publication,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font=
-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N=
ew Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-US">You know of an impl=
ementation for this draft, please report the implementation to the IDR Wiki=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a=
 href=3D"https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-=
ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-l=
ist:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font=
-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N=
ew Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-US">Do you have any con=
cerns about extending the BGP messages.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sue Hares and John Scudder <o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11402d9c1ae59d0533acd593
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I listed 4 alternative solutions earlier in this thread already :).
Dropping NLRI no matter how rear it would be is not one of them.

Your solution is not going to work in practice if extended msg is cap
negotiated on by default (after upgrade) as there always be speakers which
get upgraded later (if at all).

Rgs,
r.



On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Keyur Patel (keyupate) <keyupate@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> Comments inlined #Keyur1
>
> From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 8:54 AM
> To: Keyur Patel <keyupate@cisco.com>
> Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Bruno Decraene <
> bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org"
> <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to
> 6/7)
>
>
> =E2=80=8BYou missed the scenario I am afraid :)
>
> R1 --- RR --- R2
>
>
> R1 and RR support extended message ... R2 does not.
>
> So R1 sends to RR NLRI with attributes exceeding 4K as he has no clue who
> is behind RR and what they support.
>
> How RR is supposed to pass this prefix with bunch of attributes larger
> then 4K to R2 ?
>
> #Keyur1: IMHO, by enabling extended messages on R2. ;)
>
> Whats the alternative to =E2=80=9Cenabling extended messages=E2=80=9D so =
that the prefix
> with attribute size larger than 4K is delivered to R2? :)
>
> Regards,
> Keyur
>
>
>
> Best,
> R.
> =E2=80=8B
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Keyur Patel (keyupate) <
> keyupate@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> I thought the context of that line =E2=80=9Cnot generating single NLRI i=
f
>> attributes exceed 4K=E2=80=9D was for peers not supporting extended mess=
ages.
>>
>> Otherwise its a moot point. :)
>> Regards,
>> Keyur
>>
>> From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 8:48 AM
>> To: Keyur Patel <keyupate@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <
>> acee@cisco.com>
>> Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <
>> idr@ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24
>> to 6/7)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI
>>> exceeding 4K.
>>>
>>> #Keyur: Yep. I agree. :)
>>>
>>
>> =E2=80=8BThe entire idea for this draft was triggered by the fear that B=
GPSec may
>> not fit to 4K update msg.
>>
>> The draft explicitly states so as a motivation for this work.
>>
>> Section 1
>>
>>    "As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and newer capabilities
>> (e.g.,
>>    [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-overview]), there is a need to extend the
>> maximum message
>>    size beyond 4096 octets."
>>
>> =E2=80=8BNow in turn the referenced draft clearly defines that NLRI will=
 only
>> contain single prefix:
>>
>> Section 3.2
>>
>>    "When a BGP speaker originates a BGPsec update message, it creates a
>>    BGPsec_Path attribute containing a single signature. The signature
>>    protects the Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI), the AS
>>    number of the originating AS, and the AS number of the peer AS to
>>    whom the update message is being sent. Note that the NLRI in a BGPsec
>>    update message is restricted to contain only a single prefix."
>>
>> Question:
>>
>> =E2=80=8BSo what exactly are we to discourage here because clearly not
>> "generation of single NLRI exceeding 4K" ?
>>
>> Maybe deployment of BGPSec till all BGP routers in the world support thi=
s
>> new extended message size ?
>>
>> Thx,
>> R.
>> =E2=80=8B
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>>
>>
>

--001a11402d9c1ae59d0533acd593
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I listed 4=
 alternative solutions earlier in this thread already :). Dropping NLRI no =
matter how rear it would be is not one of them.</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">Your solution is not going to work in practice if=
 extended msg is cap negotiated on by default (after upgrade) as there alwa=
ys be speakers which get upgraded later (if at all).=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Rgs,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">r.</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 6:0=
0 PM, Keyur Patel (keyupate) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupa=
te@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Robert,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Comments inlined #Keyur1</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 8:=
54 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Keyur Patel &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:keyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;, Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;, Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;<span class=3D""><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BYou missed the scenario I am afraid :)=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
R1 --- RR --- R2</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
R1 and RR support extended message ... R2 does not.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
So R1 sends to RR NLRI with attributes exceeding 4K as he has no clue who i=
s behind RR and what they support.
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
How RR is supposed to pass this prefix with bunch of attributes larger then=
 4K to R2 ?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur1: IMHO, by enabling extended messages on R2. ;)=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Whats the alternative to =E2=80=9Cenabling extended messages=E2=80=9D =
so that the prefix with attribute size larger than 4K is delivered to R2? :=
)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Keyur</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Best,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
R.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8B</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Keyur Patel (ke=
yupate) <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Robert,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought the context of that line =E2=80=9Cnot generating single NLRI=
 if attributes exceed 4K=E2=80=9D was for peers not supporting extended mes=
sages.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Otherwise its a moot point. :)</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Keyur</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 8:=
48 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Keyur Patel &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:keyupate@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">keyupate@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;=
Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;,
 Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">share=
s@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<span><br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span><span>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Additionally, we could discourage the generation of a single NLRI exce=
eding 4K.=C2=A0<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></span>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>#Keyur: Yep. I agree. :)</div>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BThe entire idea for this draft was triggered by the fear that BGPS=
ec may not fit to 4K update msg.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
The draft explicitly states so as a motivation for this work.=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Section 1</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;As BGP is extended to suppo=
rt newer AFI/SAFIs and newer capabilities (e.g.,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-overview]),=
 there is a need to extend the maximum message=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0size beyond 4096 octets.&quot;</d=
iv>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BNow in turn the referenced draft clearly defines that NLRI will on=
ly contain single prefix:=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Section 3.2</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;When a BGP speaker originat=
es a BGPsec update message, it creates a</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0BGPsec_Path attribute containing =
a single signature. The signature</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0protects the Network Layer Reacha=
bility Information (NLRI), the AS</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0number of the originating AS, and=
 the AS number of the peer AS to</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0whom the update message is being =
sent. Note that the NLRI in a BGPsec</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0update message is restricted to c=
ontain only a single prefix.&quot;</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Question:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8BSo what exactly are we to discourage here because clearly not &quo=
t;generation of single NLRI exceeding 4K&quot; ?=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Maybe deployment of BGPSec till all BGP routers in the world support this n=
ew extended message size ?=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
Thx,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
R.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">
=E2=80=8B</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11402d9c1ae59d0533acd593--


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From: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
Thread-Index: AQHRtqHoXuJ+eihBNEmCsBnJQ/gDcw==
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:24:28 +0000
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--_000_D36B1BD740862keyupateciscocom_--


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From: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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I have read the draft and support publication.

Sriram


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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Robert,

>I listed 4 alternative solutions earlier in this thread already :).=20
>Dropping NLRI no matter how rare it would be is not one of them.

I don't know what other BGP protocol enhancements would=20
ever need to use extended message;
but so far we know that BGPsec "may" need to use it=20
(though very rarely, if ever) -- see note below**.
And it seems clear that BGPsec would never need to drop the NLRI=20
(including when the peer has not negotiated extended message capability).
This is because it is designed so that a BGPsec speaker can convert a BGPse=
c=20
update with path signatures to an unsigned BGP message (for forwarding).
BGPsec speaker can/will certainly do this conversion under these=20
two circumstances that matter for this discussion:
1. The BGPsec message (that is being forwarded) has a size larger than 4096=
,
and the peer has not negotiated extended message capability.
2.  The peer has negotiated BGP capability but not BGPsec capability.


**Note about BGPsec update size: A BGPsec message size=20
can exceed 4096 octets if there are 40 or more unique ASes=20
in the AS path (given that each AS's signature size is no more than=20
72 octets with the ECDSA P-256 algorithm).=20
The currently seen Maximum AS Path Length (eliminating prepends) is 15=20
http://bgp.potaroo.net/as6447/=20

Sriram


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11418d401cf7180533b083aa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Sriram,

Well there are other uses for larger BGP message size.

Some claim that very long AS_PATH prepend happens today.

Yet some other folks would like to use flow spec with a lot of policy to be
pushed around (for example some ACLs can be very very long today).

So once we open this road and let large tracks on it we can't have pieces
of it to remain narrow (unless those wide roads are under private walls)
and gateways out of those private ASes can handle it.

Best,
R.





On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <
kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov> wrote:

> Robert,
>
> >I listed 4 alternative solutions earlier in this thread already :).
> >Dropping NLRI no matter how rare it would be is not one of them.
>
> I don't know what other BGP protocol enhancements would
> ever need to use extended message;
> but so far we know that BGPsec "may" need to use it
> (though very rarely, if ever) -- see note below**.
> And it seems clear that BGPsec would never need to drop the NLRI
> (including when the peer has not negotiated extended message capability).
> This is because it is designed so that a BGPsec speaker can convert a
> BGPsec
> update with path signatures to an unsigned BGP message (for forwarding).
> BGPsec speaker can/will certainly do this conversion under these
> two circumstances that matter for this discussion:
> 1. The BGPsec message (that is being forwarded) has a size larger than
> 4096,
> and the peer has not negotiated extended message capability.
> 2.  The peer has negotiated BGP capability but not BGPsec capability.
>
>
> **Note about BGPsec update size: A BGPsec message size
> can exceed 4096 octets if there are 40 or more unique ASes
> in the AS path (given that each AS's signature size is no more than
> 72 octets with the ECDSA P-256 algorithm).
> The currently seen Maximum AS Path Length (eliminating prepends) is 15
> http://bgp.potaroo.net/as6447/
>
> Sriram
>

--001a11418d401cf7180533b083aa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Sriram,</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">Well there are other uses for larger BGP message s=
ize.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Some claim =
that very long AS_PATH prepend happens today.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small">Yet some other folks would like to use flow s=
pec with a lot of policy to be pushed around (for example some ACLs can be =
very very long today).=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">So once we open this road and let large tracks on it we can&#39;t =
have pieces of it to remain narrow (unless those wide roads are under priva=
te walls) and gateways out of those private ASes can handle it.=C2=A0</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l">R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:21 PM,=
 Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kotikal=
apudi.sriram@nist.gov" target=3D"_blank">kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Robert,<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt;I listed 4 alternative solutions earlier in this thread already :).<br>
</span>&gt;Dropping NLRI no matter how rare it would be is not one of them.=
<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t know what other BGP protocol enhancements would<br>
ever need to use extended message;<br>
but so far we know that BGPsec &quot;may&quot; need to use it<br>
(though very rarely, if ever) -- see note below**.<br>
And it seems clear that BGPsec would never need to drop the NLRI<br>
(including when the peer has not negotiated extended message capability).<b=
r>
This is because it is designed so that a BGPsec speaker can convert a BGPse=
c<br>
update with path signatures to an unsigned BGP message (for forwarding).<br=
>
BGPsec speaker can/will certainly do this conversion under these<br>
two circumstances that matter for this discussion:<br>
1. The BGPsec message (that is being forwarded) has a size larger than 4096=
,<br>
and the peer has not negotiated extended message capability.<br>
2.=C2=A0 The peer has negotiated BGP capability but not BGPsec capability.<=
br>
<br>
<br>
**Note about BGPsec update size: A BGPsec message size<br>
can exceed 4096 octets if there are 40 or more unique ASes<br>
in the AS path (given that each AS&#39;s signature size is no more than<br>
72 octets with the ECDSA P-256 algorithm).<br>
The currently seen Maximum AS Path Length (eliminating prepends) is 15<br>
<a href=3D"http://bgp.potaroo.net/as6447/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://bgp.potaroo.net/as6447/</a><br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Sriram<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11418d401cf7180533b083aa--


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> > This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages
> > (5/24 to 6/7). The draft can be found at:
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

Support.

:-)

Russ



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">Support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">This extension can address the requirement that one Ethernet A-D =
route per ESI can be issued with 4k RTs,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">No need to use a set of routes that each route use a different RD=
 to convey the total number of RTs.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-usage-0=
2.txt">https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-usage-02.txt</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">5.2.1. Service startup procedures<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; As soon as the EVIs are created in PE1, P=
E2 and PE3, the following<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; control plane actions are carried out:<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; o Flooding tree setup per EVI (4k routes)=
: Each PE will send one<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Inclusive Multicast Ethernet =
Tag route per EVI (up to 4k routes per<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PE) so that the flooding tree=
 per EVI can be setup. Note that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ingress replication or P2MP L=
SPs can optionally be signaled in the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PMSI Tunnel attribute and the=
 corresponding tree be created.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp; o
<span style=3D"color:red">Ethernet A-D routes per ESI (a set of routes for =
ESI12): A set of<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:red">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A-D routes with a l=
ist of 4k RTs (one per EVI) for ESI12 will be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:red">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; issued from PE1 and=
 PE2 (it has to be a set of routes so that the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:red">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; total number of RTs=
 can be conveyed).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;fon=
t-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> As per [RFC7432], each<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ethernet A-D route per ESI is=
 differentiated from the other routes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in the set by a different Rou=
te Distinguisher (ES RD). This set<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; will also include ESI Label e=
xtended communities with the active-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; standby flag set to zero (all=
-active multi-homing type) and an ESI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Label different from zero (us=
ed for split-horizon functions). These<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; routes will be imported by th=
e three PEs, since the RTs match the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; EVI RTs locally configured. T=
he A-D routes per ESI will be used for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; fast convergence and split-ho=
rizon functions, as discussed in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [RFC7432].<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Shunwan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Idr [ma=
ilto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA=
=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Susan Hares<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2016</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">5</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">25</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 4:42<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> idr@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)<o:p></o=
:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG LC on d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to 6/7). The draft can be found a=
t:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/">https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In your comments please provide=
 the following information:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Support/=A1=B1no-suppor=
t=A1=B1 of this draft being ready for publication,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">You know of an implemen=
tation for this draft, please report the implementation to the IDR Wiki<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a=
 href=3D"https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-=
ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Do you have any concern=
s about extending the BGP messages.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sue Hares and John Scudder <o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858AA1C7007NKGEML515MBSchi_--


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "Keyur Patel (keyupate)" <keyupate@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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Hi Keyur,

Thanks for considering my comments and your prompt answer.
Please see inlined #Bruno

From: Keyur Patel (keyupate) [mailto:keyupate@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 5:58 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6=
/7)

Hi Bruno,

Many thanks for the review. Comments inlined #Keyur

From: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orang=
e.com>>
Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:04 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>, Keyur Patel <key=
upate@cisco.com<mailto:keyupate@cisco.com>>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>" <idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6=
/7)

Hi,


1)      Support.


2)      Question, for my own information: why does the capability mean that=
 the BGP speaker is capable of _both_  receiving _and sending_ extend messa=
ge? (vs capable of receiving (only)). IOTW, what is the motivation to adver=
tise the capacity to send extended message?

#Bruno: You may have missed the above question? It's linked to some of the =
below comments, so even though it's not a comment, it's useful to me / this=
 thread. Thanks


3)      Please find below some possible comments:


"4.  Operation"

Suppose that I receive an extended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can't r=
elay to some peers because they don't support such extension, while I "shou=
ld" have relayed it. Is there an expected behavior? Should it be standardiz=
ed? Can this create issues (e.g. inconsistent routing with an AS)? Should t=
his be considered in the security considerations? (e.g. I deliberately send=
 an extended message, and benefit from its/the NLRI not being propagated as=
 expected. e.g. to influence routing policy)


#Keyur: Clients would receive internal routes as long as a RR can announce =
prefixes using existing message length (of 4K). It would be using multiple =
messages limited to 4K length.
#Bruno: Agreed.
 Alternatively, if the attribute size is such that the message length does =
get exceeded then the Prefix SHOULD not be announced and an error should be=
 logged (existing case).
#Bruno: That was indeed the issue I had in mind.
I'm not seeing this point in the draft. Could this be added? Plus the conse=
quences both within an AS and across ASes, in particular to raise this poin=
t to network operator (which may deploy this) and protocol designed (which =
may want to use it).

This is partly similar to the "treat as withdraw" behavior described in RFC=
7606, so you may want to reuse existing text. cf "Operational Consideration=
s" https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606#section-6 In particular

 "we note
   that if an UPDATE message received on an Internal BGP (IBGP) session
   is subjected to this treatment, inconsistent routing within the
   affected Autonomous System may result.  The consequences of
   inconsistent routing can include long-lived forwarding loops and
   black holes. >
[...]
< Even if inconsistent routing does not arise, the "treat-as-withdraw"
   behavior can cause either complete unreachability or suboptimal
   routing for the destinations whose routes are carried in the affected
   UPDATE message. >
[...]
"Because of these potential issues, a BGP speaker must provide
   debugging facilities to permit issues caused by a malformed attribute
   to be diagnosed. >


An in term of warning to network operator and protocol designer, something =
along the following lines
"Network operator needing to advertise within its AS  a BGP route which siz=
e would require a BGP message larger than 4096 octets, SHOULD enabled this =
Extended Message capability on all BGP speaker needing to receive this rout=
es. Failure to do so may result in inconsistent routing within its AS, as d=
escribed above".
"A protocol designer or network operator needing to advertise, outside of i=
ts AS, a BGP route which size would require a BGP message larger than 4096 =
octets should take into account that it has no guarantee that its route wil=
l be propagated as expected as a downstream BGP speaker might not be compli=
ant or might not has enabled BGP extended messages and hence will not propa=
gate the route. This is especially the case if one expect Internet wide pro=
pagation of its route, which seems highly improbable until a few years/deca=
des".

We could add the IPv6 example, to illustrate the time needed to deploy a ne=
w feature across the Internet, but I guess this would trigger some negative=
 reactions.

----

#Bruno
This document does not define the default behavior with regards to the adve=
rtisement of the capability. IMO, this point may impact the deployability o=
f features using extended message and the security consideration. May be it=
 should be enabled by default on IBGP session and disabled by default on EB=
GP sessions.


--

"A BGP speaker may send extended messages to its peer only if it has receiv=
ed the Extended Message Capability from its peer."

May be :s/received/sent and received
---
#Keyur: A capability announcement indicates an ability to "receive and pars=
e" extended messages. In that context "receive" is good enough?

#Bruno: I agree with you in general, but this is not was this document stat=
es. "By advertising the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP sp=
eaker conveys that it is able to send, receive, and properly handle BGP Ext=
ended Messages. >




"   A BGP speaker that has the ability to use extended messages but has

   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due

   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an extended message.  A speaker

   MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept extended messages even

   from a peer that has not advertised the capability."

I would a priori have assumed that both sentences be related. But in fact t=
hey are not since the first sentence only refers to the sending of the capa=
bility, while the second only refers to the reception of the capability. Sh=
ouldn't both sentences be extended to cover both the sending and the receiv=
ing?
--
#Keyur: We wanted to be explicit in error handling section. :) Again, the c=
apability meaning is to be able to "receive and parse".
#Bruno: Again same comment. _This_ document has defined the capability to m=
ean "send, receive and parse".



"A speaker that treats an improper extended message as a

   fatal error, as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do

   likewise. >
I'm sorry but I don't understand this sentence. What does that mean to "tre=
at an improper extended message as a fatal error"? e.g. If I receive an ext=
ended message with a syntax error requiring to send an NOTIFICATION (e.g. m=
ore than one MP_REACH_NLRI)  is this considered an improper extended messag=
e with a fatal error? If so the text seems wrong as bgp speaker must not do=
 "likewise" (seems to refer to "reset the session   with a Bad Message Leng=
th NOTIFICATION")

Also "as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do likewise" seems not =
precise enough to me (at least as a non-native English speaker). Which exac=
tly is this preceding paragraph describing this "treats an improper extende=
d message as a fatal error"

---

#Keyur:  The text is meant for a BGP speaker that doesn't announce extended=
 message capability AND doesn't support extended messages implementation (o=
ld style peer). Such a peer would consider a receipt of an extended message=
 as a malformed message.
#Bruno: ok, thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure to see the value of =
the quoted sentence. You are making a distinction/specific sub-case (a BGP =
which handled error as fatal error), to say that the behavior is the same. =
So it looks like removing the sentence would have the same effect. (no need=
 for a specific case)


7.  IANA Considerations

"The IANA is requested to register a new BGP Capability Code to be named BG=
P Extended Message Capability >

I'm not sure about the formulation since IANA has already registered this c=
apability as TEMPORARY.



"TBD      BGP-Extended Message"

At least I would expect that the document ask for the _same_ value (6) rath=
er than TBD.

#Keyur: Ack.

Regards,
Keyur





Thanks,

Regards,

Bruno


From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:42 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Cc: 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'
Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)

This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to=
 6/7). The draft can be found at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

In your comments please provide the following information:

1)      Support/"no-support" of this draft being ready for publication,

2)      You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the imp=
lementation to the IDR Wiki

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-im=
plementations


3)      Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.

Sue Hares and John Scudder

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



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______________________________________________

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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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</head>
<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Keyu=
r,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for considering my comments and your prompt answer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please =
see inlined #Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Keyur Pa=
tel (keyupate) [mailto:keyupate@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 5:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; Susan Hares<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/=
24 to 6/7)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Hi Brun=
o,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Many th=
anks for the review. Comments inlined #Keyur<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:black">Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene=
@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:04 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.c=
om</a>&gt;, Keyur Patel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keyupate@cisco.com">keyupate@=
cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/=
24 to 6/7)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi,</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"ms=
o-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Support.</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"ms=
o-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Question, for my own information: why does the capability mean that the BG=
P speaker is capable of _<i>both</i>_ &nbsp;receiving _<i>and sending</i>_ =
extend message? (vs capable of receiving
 (only)). IOTW, what is the motivation to advertise the capacity to send ex=
tended message?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">#Bruno:=
 You may have missed the above question? It&#8217;s linked to some of the b=
elow comments, so even though it&#8217;s not a comment, it&#8217;s useful t=
o me / this thread. Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New R=
oman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Please find below some possible comments:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;4.&nbsp; Operation&#8221;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Suppose that I receive an e=
xtended BGP message (e.g. update) that I can&#8217;t relay to some peers be=
cause they don&#8217;t support such extension, while I &#8220;should&#8221;=
 have relayed it. Is there an expected behavior? Should it be standardized?=
 Can this create issues (e.g. inconsistent routing with an AS)? Should this=
 be considered in the security considerations? (e.g. I deliberately send an=
 extended message, and benefit from its/the NLRI not being propagated as ex=
pected. e.g. to influence routing policy) </span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">#Keyur:=
 Clients would receive internal routes as long as a RR can announce prefixe=
s using existing message length (of 4K). It would be using multiple message=
s limited to 4K length.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">#Bruno:=
 Agreed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black">&nbsp;Alternatively, if the attribute size is such that the message=
 length does get exceeded then the Prefix SHOULD not be announced and an er=
ror should be logged (existing case).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">#Bruno:=
 That was indeed the issue I had in mind.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I&#8217=
;m not seeing this point in the draft. Could this be added? Plus the conseq=
uences both within an AS and across ASes, in particular to raise this point=
 to network operator (which may deploy this)
 and protocol designed (which may want to use it).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">This is partly similar to the &#8220;treat as=
 withdraw&#8221; behavior described in RFC7606, so you may want to reuse ex=
isting text. cf &#8220;Operational Considerations&#8221; <a href=3D"https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606#section-6">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606=
#section-6</a> In particular<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"> &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">we note<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; that if an UPDATE message rece=
ived on an Internal BGP (IBGP) session<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; is subjected to this treatment=
, inconsistent routing within the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; affected Autonomous System may=
 result.&nbsp; The consequences of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; inconsistent routing can inclu=
de long-lived forwarding loops and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>black holes.&nbsp;&raquo;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[&#8230;]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&laquo;&nbsp;Even if inconsistent routing d=
oes not arise, the &quot;treat-as-withdraw&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; behavior can cause either comp=
lete unreachability or suboptimal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; routing for the destinations w=
hose routes are carried in the affected<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>UPDATE message.&nbsp;&raquo;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[&#8230;]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&#8220;Because of these potential issues, a=
 BGP speaker must provide<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; debugging facilities to permit=
 issues caused by a malformed attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; to be diagnosed.&nbsp;&raquo;&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">An in t=
erm of warning to network operator and protocol designer, something along t=
he following lines<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;=
Network operator needing to advertise within its AS &nbsp;a BGP route which=
 size would require a BGP message larger than 4096 octets, SHOULD enabled t=
his Extended Message capability on all BGP speaker
 needing to receive this routes. Failure to do so may result in inconsisten=
t routing within its AS, as described above&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;=
A protocol designer or network operator needing to advertise, outside of it=
s AS, a BGP route which size would require a BGP message larger than 4096 o=
ctets should take into account that it has no
 guarantee that its route will be propagated as expected as a downstream BG=
P speaker might not be compliant or might not has enabled BGP extended mess=
ages and hence will not propagate the route. This is especially the case if=
 one expect Internet wide propagation
 of its route, which seems highly improbable until a few years/decades&#822=
1;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">We coul=
d add the IPv6 example, to illustrate the time needed to deploy a new featu=
re across the Internet, but I guess this would trigger some negative reacti=
ons.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">----<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">#Bruno<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">This do=
cument does not define the default behavior with regards to the advertiseme=
nt of the capability. IMO, this point may impact the deployability of featu=
res using extended message and the security
 consideration. May be it should be enabled by default on IBGP session and =
disabled by default on EBGP sessions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">--</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;A BGP speaker may se=
nd extended messages to its peer only if it has received the Extended Messa=
ge Capability from its peer.&#8221;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">May be </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"c=
olor:black">:s/received/sent and received</span><span style=3D"color:black"=
><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">---</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">#Keyur:=
 A capability announcement indicates an ability to &quot;receive and parse&=
quot; extended messages. In that context &#8220;receive&#8221; is good enou=
gh?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">#Bruno: I agree with you in general, but this=
 is not was this document states. &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">By adv=
ertising the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP speaker conve=
ys that it is able to <b><span style=3D"color:#C0504D">send</span></b>, rec=
eive, and properly handle BGP Extended Messages.&nbsp;&raquo;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP s=
peaker that has the ability to use extended messages but has</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; not advertised=
 the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due</span><span style=3D"=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; to configurati=
on, SHOULD NOT accept an extended message.&nbsp; A speaker</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY implement =
a more liberal policy and accept extended messages even</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; from a peer th=
at has not advertised the capability.&#8221;</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I would=
 a priori have assumed that both sentences be related. But in fact they are=
 not since the first sentence only refers to the sending of the capability,=
 while the second only refers to the reception
 of the capability. Shouldn&#8217;t both sentences be extended to cover bot=
h the sending and the receiving?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">--</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">#Keyur:=
 We wanted to be explicit in error handling section. :) Again, the capabili=
ty meaning is to be able to &#8220;receive and parse&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">#Bruno:=
 Again same comment. _<i>This</i>_ document has defined the capability to m=
ean &#8220;send, receive and parse&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;A speaker that treat=
s an improper extended message as a</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; fatal error, a=
s described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; likewise.&nbsp=
;&raquo;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I&#8217=
;m sorry but I don&#8217;t understand this sentence. What does that mean to=
 &#8220;treat an improper extended message as a fatal error&#8221;? e.g. If=
 I receive an extended message with a syntax error requiring to
 send an NOTIFICATION (e.g. more than one MP_REACH_NLRI) &nbsp;is this cons=
idered an improper extended message with a fatal error? If so the text seem=
s wrong as bgp speaker must not do &#8220;likewise&#8221; (seems to refer t=
o &#8220;reset the session&nbsp;&nbsp; with a Bad Message Length
 NOTIFICATION&#8221;)</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Also &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color:black">as described in the preceding paragraph, MUST do likewise&=
#8221; </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">seems not precise enough to me (at l=
east as a non-native English speaker). Which exactly is this preceding para=
graph describing this &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:bla=
ck">treats an improper extended message as a fatal error</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:#1F497D">&#8221;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">---</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">#Keyur:=
 &nbsp;The text is meant for a BGP speaker that doesn&#8217;t announce exte=
nded message capability AND doesn&#8217;t support extended messages impleme=
ntation (old style peer). Such a peer would consider
 a receipt of an extended message as a malformed message.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">#Bruno:=
 ok, thanks for the clarification. I&#8217;m not sure to see the value of t=
he quoted sentence. You are making a distinction/specific sub-case (a BGP w=
hich handled error as fatal error), to say that
 the behavior is the same. So it looks like removing the sentence would hav=
e the same effect. (no need for a specific case)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">7</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:b=
lack">.&nbsp; IANA Considerations</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;The IANA is requeste=
d to register a new BGP Capability Code to be named BGP Extended Message Ca=
pability&nbsp;&raquo;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;m not sure about the formulation sinc=
e IANA has already registered this capability as TEMPORARY.</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&#8220;TBD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP-Extended Message&#8221;</span><span style=3D"color:black"=
><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">At least I would expect that the document ask=
 for the _<i>same</i>_ value (6) rather than TBD.</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">#Keyur:=
 Ack.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Regards=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Keyur<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</spa=
n></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Taho=
ma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bo=
unces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2016 10:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Keyur Patel (keyupate)'; 'David Ward'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 t=
o 6/7)</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">This begi=
ns a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to 6/7). Th=
e draft can be found at:
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"=
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a>=
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">In your c=
omments please provide the following information:
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"ms=
o-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">S=
upport/&#8221;no-support&#8221; of this draft being ready for publication,<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"ms=
o-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Y=
ou know of an implementation for this draft, please report the implementati=
on to the IDR Wiki</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki=
/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/w=
g/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a></span><span=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"ms=
o-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">D=
o you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Sue Hares=
 and John Scudder
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">__________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
____<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent c=
ontenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies san=
s autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signal=
er<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que le=
s pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteratio=
n,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce =
message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">This message and its attachments may conta=
in confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">they should not be distributed, used or co=
pied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">If you have received this email in error, =
please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">As emails may be altered, Orange is not li=
able for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 13:20:08 +0200
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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--001a11418d40064fe60533bcf9a9
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Hi Bruno/all,

=E2=80=9CA protocol designer or network operator needing to advertise, outs=
ide of
> its AS, a BGP route which size would require a BGP message larger than 40=
96
> octets should take into account that it has no guarantee that its route
> will be propagated as expected as a downstream BGP speaker might not be
> compliant or might not has enabled BGP extended messages and hence will n=
ot
> propagate the route. This is especially the case if one expect Internet
> wide propagation of its route, which seems highly improbable until a few
> years/decades=E2=80=9D.
>


=E2=80=8BThe above text which very true triggered few more observations:

=E2=80=8B- As this is WG last call implementation report (even on the wiki =
should
be available) Can we get a pointer to it ? I do not see it on the IETF page=
:
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/implementation-report.html

- Did implementation report (if even completed) included the set of test
cases say with large AS_PATH or long Extended Community (stuffing a lot of
RTs as described in RTC backwards compatibility work) to make sure that
most popular BGP implementation can handle such large attributes without
crashing ? Otherwise enabling this would be an excellent attack vector in
the Internet.

- Do we have an agreement that this will not be "ON" by default, but will
be enabled only with a knob ?

- How do we detect if this is supported across the private AS/public
Internet zoo of routers ? Should we have a protocol tool which would allow
to detect support of extended messages at each BGP speaker and if not
report this as an error to the originator of the large message ? Sending
large BGP message if not supported by any remote peer by any BGP speaker
along the propagation would trigger reporting it back with new ICMP error
could be one approach. I am sure there would be others ...

Thx,
r.

--001a11418d40064fe60533bcf9a9
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Bruno/all,</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1=
px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div style=3D"bor=
der-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:bl=
ue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=E2=80=9CA protocol designer or network op=
erator needing to advertise, outside of its AS, a BGP route which size woul=
d require a BGP message larger than 4096 octets should take into account th=
at it has no
 guarantee that its route will be propagated as expected as a downstream BG=
P speaker might not be compliant or might not has enabled BGP extended mess=
ages and hence will not propagate the route. This is especially the case if=
 one expect Internet wide propagation
 of its route, which seems highly improbable until a few years/decades=E2=
=80=9D.</span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BThe above text which very true t=
riggered few more observations:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small">=E2=80=8B- As this is WG last call implementation report (even on=
 the wiki should be available) Can we get a pointer to it ? I do not see it=
 on the IETF page:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=
=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/impl=
ementation-report.html">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/implementation-report.htm=
l</a></font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:small">- Did implementation report (if even completed) included th=
e set of test cases say with large AS_PATH or long Extended Community (stuf=
fing a lot of RTs as described in RTC backwards compatibility work) to make=
 sure that most popular BGP implementation can handle such large attributes=
 without crashing ? Otherwise enabling this would be an excellent attack ve=
ctor in the Internet.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
- Do we have an agreement that this will not be &quot;ON&quot; by default, =
but will be enabled only with a knob ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">- How do we detect if this is supported across the p=
rivate AS/public Internet zoo of routers ? Should we have a protocol tool w=
hich would allow to detect support of extended messages at each BGP speaker=
 and if not report this as an error to the originator of the large message =
? Sending large BGP message if not supported by any remote peer by any BGP =
speaker along the propagation would trigger reporting it back with new ICMP=
 error could be one approach. I am sure there would be others ...</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">r.=
</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div></div></div>

--001a11418d40064fe60533bcf9a9--


From nobody Thu May 26 04:35:15 2016
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to	6/7)
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packing is not relevant.  receiver unpacks if nlri are packed, and as a
sender decides whether and how densly to pack or not.  if the outbound
link is smaller than the inbound, pack in less nlri.  if it is the
attributes that over-flow, then you have a more general problem.

if we are in the bgpsec space,

  o will a single nlri with a signed path fit in the extended message?
    yes.  even degenerate prepends don't hurt because of the pCount
    hack.

  o if there is an outbound that is not a bgpsec speaker, they will be
    sent a classic as4_path which darn well should fit in the classic
    message size.  if there is prepend insanity, that would die today.

  o if the outbound is a bgpsec speaker yet will not use an extended
    message size, there is one interesting case, the singleton stub.
    a non-transit router can sign toward its upstream(s) and not care
    about receiving bgsec as it has no other choice of where to send
    packets.

randy


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--001a1148e6f0714e120533bd8227
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>  if there is prepend insanity, that would die today.

The difference is that today it will immediately die at yr peer and it is
very easy to detect. Same for other attributes which can take tons of stuff
loaded on them today.

With extended message it will die few hops away likely in different AS and
to detect it will be quite hard without proper tool.

Thx,
R.





On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

> packing is not relevant.  receiver unpacks if nlri are packed, and as a
> sender decides whether and how densly to pack or not.  if the outbound
> link is smaller than the inbound, pack in less nlri.  if it is the
> attributes that over-flow, then you have a more general problem.
>
> if we are in the bgpsec space,
>
>   o will a single nlri with a signed path fit in the extended message?
>     yes.  even degenerate prepends don't hurt because of the pCount
>     hack.
>
>   o if there is an outbound that is not a bgpsec speaker, they will be
>     sent a classic as4_path which darn well should fit in the classic
>     message size.  if there is prepend insanity, that would die today.
>
>   o if the outbound is a bgpsec speaker yet will not use an extended
>     message size, there is one interesting case, the singleton stub.
>     a non-transit router can sign toward its upstream(s) and not care
>     about receiving bgsec as it has no other choice of where to send
>     packets.
>
> randy
>

--001a1148e6f0714e120533bd8227
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-s=
erif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"=
font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">&gt; =C2=A0if there is prepe=
nd insanity, that would die today.</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.=
8px">The difference is that today it will immediately die at yr peer and it=
 is very easy to detect. Same for other attributes which can take tons of s=
tuff loaded on them today.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"=
font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">With=
 extended message it will die few hops away likely in different AS and to d=
etect it will be quite hard without proper tool.</span></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></sp=
an></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12.8px">Thx,</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">R.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
2.8px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:a=
rial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial=
,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 26, =
2016 at 1:34 PM, Randy Bush <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:randy@p=
sg.com" target=3D"_blank">randy@psg.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">packing is not relevant.=C2=A0 receiver unpacks if nlr=
i are packed, and as a<br>
sender decides whether and how densly to pack or not.=C2=A0 if the outbound=
<br>
link is smaller than the inbound, pack in less nlri.=C2=A0 if it is the<br>
attributes that over-flow, then you have a more general problem.<br>
<br>
if we are in the bgpsec space,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 o will a single nlri with a signed path fit in the extended message?=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yes.=C2=A0 even degenerate prepends don&#39;t hurt because of=
 the pCount<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 hack.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 o if there is an outbound that is not a bgpsec speaker, they will be=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sent a classic as4_path which darn well should fit in the cla=
ssic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 message size.=C2=A0 if there is prepend insanity, that would =
die today.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 o if the outbound is a bgpsec speaker yet will not use an extended<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 message size, there is one interesting case, the singleton st=
ub.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a non-transit router can sign toward its upstream(s) and not =
care<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about receiving bgsec as it has no other choice of where to s=
end<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
randy<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1148e6f0714e120533bd8227--


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From: Ignas Bagdonas <ibagdona.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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I have read the draft and support the publication.

Some assorted comments:

- s/RFC4221/RFC4271, and remove reference of RFC4221.

- Section 4, third paragraph talks about the propagation path. How would 
such a path be known in advance of the propagation? This seems contrary 
to a normal multipoint flooding mode of BGP operation.

- Error handling in the environment with old style and extended messages 
capable peers. There could be several scenarios advertising received 
extended messages to an old style peer:
-- Single NLRI itself is longer than 4096 (opaque key-value AFI as an 
example). It is not possible to send it to an old style peer at all, 
should be dropped and logged.
-- Single path attribute is longer than 4096. Removing such attribute 
would leave no place where to put partial indication. Would see dropping 
and logging to stay consistent with the NLRI case being a practical 
approach.
-- The sum of path attributes is above 4096, while each path attribute 
is shorter than 4096. This seems to be the least deterministic case, 
likely it will be optional attributes that exceed the length, with local 
node having no knowledge based on what criteria to remove which 
attribute from propagation. Also this is not specific to extended 
messages. Behaviour today seems to be left to implementation detail. 
Should be logged and possibly dropped, leaving to the implementation 
detail.


Ignas



On 24/05/2016 21:42, Susan Hares wrote:
>
> This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages 
> (5/24 to 6/7). The draft can be found at:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
>
> In your comments please provide the following information:
>
> 1)Support/”no-support” of this draft being ready for publication,
>
> 2)You know of an implementation for this draft, please report the 
> implementation to the IDR Wiki
>
> https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations 
>
>
> 3)Do you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages.
>
> Sue Hares and John Scudder
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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    <tt>I have read the draft and support the publication. </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>Some assorted comments: </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>- s/RFC4221/RFC4271, and remove reference of RFC4221. </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>- Section 4, third paragraph talks about the propagation
      path. How would such a path be known in advance of the
      propagation? This seems contrary to a normal multipoint flooding
      mode of BGP operation. </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>- Error handling in the environment with old style and
      extended messages capable peers. There could be several scenarios
      advertising received extended messages to an old style peer:  </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>-- Single NLRI itself is longer than 4096 (opaque key-value
      AFI as an example). It is not possible to send it to an old style
      peer at all, should be dropped and logged. </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>-- Single path attribute is longer than 4096. </tt><tt>Removing
      such attribute would leave no place where to put partial
      indication. Would see dropping and logging to stay consistent with
      the NLRI case being a practical approach. <br>
    </tt><tt>-- The sum of path attributes is above 4096, while each
      path attribute is shorter than 4096. This seems to be the least
      deterministic case, likely it will be optional attributes that
      exceed the length, with local node having no knowledge based on
      what criteria to remove which attribute from propagation. Also
      this is not specific to extended messages. Behaviour today seems
      to be left to implementation detail. Should be logged and possibly
      dropped, leaving to the implementation detail.  <br>
    </tt><tt></tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt><br>
      Ignas<br>
      <br>
    </tt><tt><br>
    </tt><br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/05/2016 21:42, Susan Hares wrote:<br>
    </div>
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        <p class="MsoNormal">This begins a 2 week WG LC on
          draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages (5/24 to 6/7). The draft
          can be found at: <o:p></o:p></p>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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          following information: <o:p></o:p></p>
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          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font:7.0pt
              &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->Support/”no-support”
          of this draft being ready for publication,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style="font:7.0pt
              &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->You
          know of an implementation for this draft, please report the
          implementation to the IDR Wiki<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
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            style="mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style="font:7.0pt
              &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">      </span></span><!--[endif]-->Do
          you have any concerns about extending the BGP messages. <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Sue Hares and John Scudder <o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a>
</pre>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-12 WG LC (5/24 to 6/7)
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On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:28:10PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Well there are other uses for larger BGP message size.
> 
> Some claim that very long AS_PATH prepend happens today.

For my part, I tend to see this as a DoS on the routing system.  I think a
few implementations even simply consider the path "bad" once it gets too
big. 

> Yet some other folks would like to use flow spec with a lot of policy to be
> pushed around (for example some ACLs can be very very long today).

This case would be handy, especially if we get to some of these more
"flowspec as SDN" use cases.

One place we know we have desired use is large lists of route-target
extended communities.  While I think cases that are in danger of overflowing
RT lists imply some need to engineer the network differently, it does seem
to be a common issue. :-)

-- Jeff


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : IPv6 Extensions for Route Target Distribution
        Authors         : Keyur Patel
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Martin Djernaes
                          Jie Dong
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2016-05-31

Abstract:
   The current route target distribution specification as described in
   [RFC 4684] defines Route Target NLRIs of maximum length of 12 bytes.
   The IPv6 specific Route Target extended community is defined in [RFC
   5701] as length of 20 bytes.  Since the current specification only
   supports prefixes of maximum length of 12 bytes, the lack of an IPv6
   specific Route Target reachability information may be a problem when
   an operator wants to use this application in a pure IPv6 environment.
   This document defines an extension that allows BGP to exchange longer
   length IPv6 Route Target prefixes.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Extensions to RT-Constrain in Hierarchical Route Reflection Scenarios
        Authors         : Jie Dong
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
                          Robert Raszuk
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2016-05-31

Abstract:
   The Route Target (RT) Constrain mechanism specified in RFC 4684 is
   used to build a route distribution graph in order to restrict the
   propagation of Virtual Private Network (VPN) routes.  In network
   scenarios where hierarchical route reflection (RR) is used, the
   existing RT-Constrain mechanism cannot guarantee a correct route
   distribution graph.  This document describes the problem scenario and
   proposes a solution to address the RT-Constrain issue in hierarchical
   RR scenarios.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Tue May 31 01:36:57 2016
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09.txt
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Hi all,=20

This update is just to keep this draft alive.=20

Best regards,
Jie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 3:55 PM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : IPv6 Extensions for Route Target Distribution
>         Authors         : Keyur Patel
>                           Robert Raszuk
>                           Martin Djernaes
>                           Jie Dong
>                           Mach(Guoyi) Chen
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09.txt
> 	Pages           : 6
> 	Date            : 2016-05-31
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The current route target distribution specification as described in
>    [RFC 4684] defines Route Target NLRIs of maximum length of 12 bytes.
>    The IPv6 specific Route Target extended community is defined in [RFC
>    5701] as length of 20 bytes.  Since the current specification only
>    supports prefixes of maximum length of 12 bytes, the lack of an IPv6
>    specific Route Target reachability information may be a problem when
>    an operator wants to use this application in a pure IPv6 environment.
>    This document defines an extension that allows BGP to exchange longer
>    length IPv6 Route Target prefixes.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-09
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-ipv6-rt-constrain-=
09
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From nobody Tue May 31 01:42:00 2016
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02.txt
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Hi all,=20

There are some editorial changes in this new revision. And the authors woul=
d like to know the WG's opinion on the two potential solutions, so that som=
e decision could be made in a future version.

Comments and feedbacks are welcome.

Best regards,
Jie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 3:58 PM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Extensions to RT-Constrain in Hierarchical Rout=
e
> Reflection Scenarios
>         Authors         : Jie Dong
>                           Mach(Guoyi) Chen
>                           Robert Raszuk
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 6
> 	Date            : 2016-05-31
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The Route Target (RT) Constrain mechanism specified in RFC 4684 is
>    used to build a route distribution graph in order to restrict the
>    propagation of Virtual Private Network (VPN) routes.  In network
>    scenarios where hierarchical route reflection (RR) is used, the
>    existing RT-Constrain mechanism cannot guarantee a correct route
>    distribution graph.  This document describes the problem scenario and
>    proposes a solution to address the RT-Constrain issue in hierarchical
>    RR scenarios.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr/
>=20
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rtc-hierarchical-rr-02
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


From nobody Tue May 31 05:15:00 2016
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Wide BGP Communities Attribute
        Authors         : Robert Raszuk
                          Jeffrey Haas
                          Andrew Lange
                          Shane Amante
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Paul Jakma
                          Richard A Steenbergen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-02.txt
	Pages           : 23
	Date            : 2016-05-31

Abstract:
   Route tagging plays an important role in external BGP [RFC4271]
   relations, in communicating various routing policies between peers.
   It is also a very common best practice among operators to propagate
   various additional information about routes intra-domain.  The most
   common tool used today to attach various information about routes is
   through the use of BGP communities [RFC1997].

   Such information is important to allow BGP speakers to perform some
   mutually agreed actions without the need to maintain a separate
   offline database for each tuple of prefix and associated set of
   action entries.

   This document defines a new encoding which will enhance and simplify
   what can be accomplished today with the use of BGP communities.  The
   most important addition this specification makes over currently
   defined BGP communities is the ability to specify, carry as well as
   use for execution an operator's defined set of parameters.  It also
   provides an extensible platform for any new community encoding needs
   in the future.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-02

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https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-wide-bgp-communities-02


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From nobody Tue May 31 05:16:22 2016
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : Registered Wide BGP Community Values
        Authors         : Robert Raszuk
                          Jeffrey Haas
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-registered-wide-bgp-communities-02.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2016-05-31

Abstract:
   Communicating various routing policies via route tagging plays an
   important role in external BGP peering relations.  The most common
   tool used today to attach various information about routes is
   realized with the use of BGP communities.  Such information is
   important for the peering AS to perform some mutually agreed actions
   without the need to maintain a separate offline database for each
   pair of prefix and an associated with it requested set of action
   entries.

   This document proposes to establish a new IANA maintained registry of
   most commonly used Wide BGP Communities by network operators.  Such
   public registry will allow for easy refernece and clear
   interpretation of the actions associated with received community
   values.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-registered-wide-bgp-communities/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-registered-wide-bgp-communities-02

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From nobody Tue May 31 08:40:35 2016
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-10.txt> (Internet Exchange BGP Route Server) to Proposed Standard
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Marco Marzetti wrote:
> Beside i agree on the most part of this draft i would like to underline
> how bullet 2.2.2 breaks the the nature of BGP itself.
> 
> The exact part i am referring to is:
> """
>  As a route server does not participate in the process of forwarding
>    data between client routers, and because modification of the AS_PATH
>    attribute could affect route server client BGP Decision Process, the
>    route server SHOULD NOT prepend its own AS number to the AS_PATH
>    segment nor modify the AS_PATH segment in any other way.
> """
> 
> I firmly think that it really has to state "MUST NOT" instead of "SHOULD
> NOT".
> 
> From a route-server client point of view that breaks the natural BGP
> best selection process and forces you to purely rely on LOCAL_PREFERENCE
> which in turns breaks your traffic engineering because it forces you to
> prefer/not-prefer the prefixes learned over the route server in place of
> those learned, for instance, over a private session or another IXP.

It doesn't "break" the decision process mechanism.  Localpref might be
ugly, but using it doesn't violate the bgp protocol.

This statement needs to be "MUST NOT".  Technically you can run a route
server even if you insert the intermediate ASN into the path.  The only
absolute "MUST" is that you mustn't change the next-hop; otherwise you
end up with a router instead of a route server.

RFC2119 is a pain because there is no way of differentiating between
"SHOULD NOT", meaning "on balance it would be a better idea not to do X"
and "SHOULD NOT", meaning "if you even _think_ about doing X, you need
your head examined and the only reason we specified SHOULD NOT instead
of MUST NOT in this situation because of some technicality that
prevented us from doing so".  The text in 2.2.2 veers slightly in the
direction of the latter interpretation.

Nick


From nobody Tue May 31 10:58:02 2016
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Gunter Van de Velde
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-02.txt
	Pages           : 40
	Date            : 2016-05-31

Abstract:
   RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
   Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
   of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide the
   information needed to create the tunnel and the corresponding
   encapsulation header.  The attribute can also provide information
   that aids in choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent
   through a particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is
   only carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
   Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document deprecates the
   Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used), and specifies
   semantics for the attribute when it is carried in UPDATEs of certain
   other SAFIs.  This document adds support for additional tunnel types,
   and allows a remote tunnel endpoint address to be specified for each
   tunnel.  This document also provides support for specifying fields of
   any inner or outer encapsulations that may be used by a particular
   tunnel.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5512.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps/

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From nobody Tue May 31 11:39:00 2016
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-mpls-match-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Flow Specification Filter for MPLS Label
        Authors         : Lucy Yong
                          Susan Hares
                          Qiandeng Liang
                          Jianjie You
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-mpls-match-00.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2016-05-31

Abstract:
   This draft proposes BGP flow specification rules that are used to
   filter MPLS labeled packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-mpls-match/

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