From nobody Tue Aug 1 02:08:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6FE132C72; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 02:08:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150157851232.9555.7739807421699170757@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 02:08:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-11.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:08:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Inter-domain Traffic Conditioning Agreement (TCA) Exchange Attribute Authors : Shitanshu Shah Keyur Patel Sandeep Bajaj Luis Tomotaki Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-11.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2017-08-01 Abstract: Network administrators typically enforce Quality of Service (QoS) policies according to Traffic Conditioning Agreement (TCA) with their providers. The enforcement of such policies often relies upon vendor-specific configuration language. Both learning of TCA, either thru TCA documents or via some other out-of-band method, and translating them to vendor specific configuration language is a complex, often manual, process and prone to errors. This document specifies an optional transitive attribute to signal TCA parameters in-band, across administrative boundaries (considered as Autonomous Systems (AS)), thus simplifying and facilitating some of the complex provisioning tasks in situations where BGP is available as a routing protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Aug 1 02:52:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6C4131FED; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 02:52:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chLseECxFpgZ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 02:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01on0098.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.33.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6A90131FC9; 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spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY1PR05MB271435F45F39EBDC7ECCA6ECD5B30CY1PR05MB2714namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Aug 2017 09:52:04.8857 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR05MB2506 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IANA Early allocations: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:52:09 -0000 --_000_CY1PR05MB271435F45F39EBDC7ECCA6ECD5B30CY1PR05MB2714namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authors, Is it possible to request IANA early allocations for this draft. I believe there are multiple implementations for this draft. Rgds Shraddha --_000_CY1PR05MB271435F45F39EBDC7ECCA6ECD5B30CY1PR05MB2714namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Authors,
 
Is it possible to request IANA early allocations for this draft.
I believe there are multiple implementations for this draft.
 
Rgds
Shraddha
 
 --_000_CY1PR05MB271435F45F39EBDC7ECCA6ECD5B30CY1PR05MB2714namp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 03:30:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD4B132CEF for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:30:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KTrRhAygkaRJ for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52D6413207F for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:30:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from cupcake.local (089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71AUO94063773 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:30:25 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged) claimed to be cupcake.local Message-ID: <59805841.6050309@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:30:25 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.16 (Macintosh/20170718) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Haas CC: Enke Chen , "idr@ietf.org" References: <441c2f03-e061-726a-4b14-14c452d25f2e@cisco.com> <20170731191304.GW24942@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20170731191304.GW24942@pfrc.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Comments on slides-99-idr-03-idr-rs-bfd_ietf99-00.pdf X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:30:33 -0000 Jeffrey Haas wrote: > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 02:20:44PM -0700, Enke Chen wrote: >> I have several comments on slides-99-idr-03-idr-rs-bfd_ietf99-00.pdf, >> Page 10 "Why not add-paths?": >> >> •Some IXPs do not want to use add-paths or their customers may not want to use it. >> >>> Enke: Do we understand the reasons? Please also note that the add-path can be >>> Enke: deployed one a per-neighbor basis. > > I'll have to leave this motivation to the coauthors, who also are associated > with IXP. Resource consumption has been offered as an example consideration > by others. There are still issues with lack of support for add-path/ebgp in mainline router vendors, e.g. > nick@testbox# commit > [edit protocols] > 'bgp' > Error in neighbor x.x.x.6 of group test-add-path: > Add-path is not supported on external groups/peers > error: configuration check-out failed > > [edit] > nick@testbox# > Router(config)#router bgp 2128 > Router(config-router)#add ipv4 > Router(config-router-af)#neighbor x.x.x.6 additional-paths send > % BGP: Add-Path *not* supported on EBGP peering > Router(config-router-af)# the junos box isn't running very up-to-date software, so maybe things have improved on that front. The IOS box is running a version of 15.7 released this week, i.e. hot off the shelf. Nick From nobody Tue Aug 1 05:22:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B806A132133; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:22:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ym9nI71p_eOZ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02on0122.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.36.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2E2D126BF3; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:22:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=OYFOmD64S4EyCWlzAOe8mmOQ0OhEJH5TDhsV4Mrl1Qg=; b=BJ2VOocCS4PjLey7eiTJm9xW60qqsdDI3yuDwk5slHQPZiQew7mejlLDdlNkzQ+WVSX1w+Ri+hJW/2aissoXflhmskZx1hwjiNePZ2CwWgfrk3c9pv5gYTOzdDXZ7UORCOMjQ4nbvRHnquSoHrfKbgfgtxkc63PX307iNZ9asWk= Received: from CY1PR05MB2507.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.167.10.134) by CY1PR05MB2683.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.167.11.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1320.10; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:22:25 +0000 Received: from CY1PR05MB2507.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.167.10.134]) by CY1PR05MB2507.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.167.10.134]) with mapi id 15.01.1320.010; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:22:24 +0000 From: John Scudder To: Shraddha Hegde CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] IANA Early allocations: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext Thread-Index: AdMKq9N/s54ZzaF6STaGpH32p/FU+gAFQGAE Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:22:24 +0000 Message-ID: <7E42162C-1B58-46CF-A528-2B2FAAC6C654@juniper.net> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jgs@juniper.net; 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Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:07:42 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged) claimed to be cupcake.local Message-ID: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:07:42 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.16 (Macintosh/20170718) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IDR Working Group X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:07:53 -0000 > 2. Client routers must have a means of communicating the knowledge > of the failure (and restoration) back to the route server. I don't see why this is necessary. It would be useful to have a mechanism for a RS to broker bfd connectivity between rsclients, but that's about as far as it should go. Having this information relayed back to and processed by the RS itself is both unnecessary and unwise. It's unnecessary because if there is a mechanism available to broker bfd sessions between rsclients, then this allows each rsclient to make their own decision about whether they want to use this and make their own decisions about NH reachability. If this is in place, the RS doesn't need to augment this information because the client has all the tools they need to be able to do this. It's unwise because: - the proposal allows rsclient A to influence reachability for their competitor, rsclient B. This is a show-stopper in my books but other people may have different opinions. - it puts the ixp in the position of making pronouncements about the reachability of its rsclient base. From a layer 9 point of view, it could be argued that there might be liability problems if it gets this wrong due to e.g. poisoned / late / incorrect data from rsclients. - the draft makes an implicit assumption that reachability between each rsclient is a ternary state, which it is not. E.g. one of the most common ixp commutativity failure situations is where you have an ecmp/lag bundle between rsclient A and B, and a single member link dies, leading to partial failure between A and B. If BFD and BGP work fine, then the IXP has just made a pronouncement that NH reachability is good, which it is not. Awkward. - maintaining state, particularly derived state, is generally a poor idea, particularly when based on slightly vague data inputs, and where the consequences of either misinformation or misinterpretation of this state would be dropped packets. - this proposal adds a good deal of complication to the interaction between RS, rsclients and the routing decision engine functionality. This stuff is complicated enough already, and there would have to be unusually clear and compelling arguments to make it worth adding in the extra failure modes that complication like this is going to create. - route server connectivity brokerage is generally considered to be the poor first cousin of bilateral connectivity over an IXP and the poor second cousin of a private network interconnection. If an rsclient cares enough about its data flows that reachability is sufficiently important to justify being protected by BFD, then I'd argue that they should just do this rather than outsourcing the problem to someone else. There are plenty of automation tools out there and it's not that hard to do. Please let's keep rs bfd brokerage as simple as possible. I don't want front-line ixp support issues to have to be dealt with by 3rd line engineering. Nick From nobody Tue Aug 1 06:31:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0E813192B for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:31:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JUpbw4KFc-XU for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f47.google.com (mail-wm0-f47.google.com [74.125.82.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 761E3129A84 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-f47.google.com with SMTP id t201so14852545wmt.1 for ; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=l3iT5W1Y3sHP89XBNaOgNVXZUBz6HGqtKUiSJJYX/3s=; b=Pv+f+uatRBuxIo/EpEvCV5MbdJwnjfEAN7sVqC0nAEwLte0dq4M4GL9WkzaBQgAQ2n VCTQ9ijf2Tcakf8uGSKLLT/BwahV8vnVVjUcMRHJBGcgYbCutvOXW0lh7EDtX7MSMbBE TDMgS7gZIVKoZ9+l2dCMmJN3uwoiCspqRpC/DljcWLLGIBMy0hFMB8eXuCsFaOQVLboH FL6eB9fBVk4uAIk5gzVlpZ2vO/to9goKmUrWDQ7u+wlapxXKTaHuySnubMT6sbPJ/BVQ 9jAZQYlUH+lHl2egLrNpqz5iIzEsXaqceAEbO4JxfDxug57EFcPfWGGUkVrWZa2ggcVG bIjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw1131aOpOQOXMJnCBPq5kGWbXjqHqsYfUzqTsIfbfEcDklKWW4Rcn sqLz4dYkhQEkTs8NUSyFTw== X-Received: by 10.80.179.98 with SMTP id r31mr17188300edd.1.1501594270752; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 06:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2001:67c:208c:10:2929:5092:f82a:60b2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q22sm2488472edd.64.2017.08.01.06.31.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Aug 2017 06:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 15:31:09 +0200 From: Job Snijders To: Nick Hilliard Cc: IETF IDR Working Group Message-ID: <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:31:14 -0000 Hi Nick, I'll cherry pick a bit in responding. On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:07:42PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > - the proposal allows rsclient A to influence reachability for their > competitor, rsclient B. This is a show-stopper in my books but other > people may have different opinions. I am under the impression that the NHIB (Next Hop Information Base) is per-client, like the Loc-RIB and Adj-RIB-Out are, so what you describe shouldn't be an issue. See section 4.4 "The route server maintains a per-client Next Hop Information Base". Kind regards, Job From nobody Tue Aug 1 06:55:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B589132156 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:55:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rvSLLJOe0db4 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D055A127010 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:55:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from cupcake.local (089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71DtRhZ088130 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:55:28 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-195156.ntlworld.ie [89.101.195.156] (may be forged) claimed to be cupcake.local Message-ID: <59808851.5060303@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:55:29 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.16 (Macintosh/20170718) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Enke Chen CC: "idr@ietf.org" References: <150024582910.32415.1807192204466699245@ietfa.amsl.com> <1840203b-a02f-deef-4299-3fe64aee033d@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1840203b-a02f-deef-4299-3fe64aee033d@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:55:36 -0000 Enke Chen wrote: > Here is a proposal for "unsolicited bfd". We (the authors) believe that > "add-path + unsolicited bfd" is a simper solution to the nexthop liveness > issue at the IXP with Route Servers. This is interesting. I wonder about the wisdom of lots of routers sending unsolicited bfd control packets. At the least, there ought to be a back-off mechanism in place to slow things down where the non-Active router is ignoring packets. Also, it would be good to have an explicit reject mechanism, to stop streams of unsolicited bfd control packets completely. IXP participants will want some mechanism of never receiving BFD solicitations. Active/passive session collision may be a problem. This proposal slightly goes to the other side of the KISS principal: "keep it as simple as possible, but no simpler". It may be too simple. Nick From nobody Tue Aug 1 07:29:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F250131E75 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:29:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H7spfL7kfcKV for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2A2128C9C for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DBED71E37E; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:29:35 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Nick Hilliard Cc: Enke Chen , "idr@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170801142935.GZ24942@pfrc.org> References: <441c2f03-e061-726a-4b14-14c452d25f2e@cisco.com> <20170731191304.GW24942@pfrc.org> <59805841.6050309@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59805841.6050309@foobar.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Comments on slides-99-idr-03-idr-rs-bfd_ietf99-00.pdf X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:29:23 -0000 Nick, On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 11:30:25AM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > There are still issues with lack of support for add-path/ebgp in > mainline router vendors, e.g. > > > nick@testbox# commit > > [edit protocols] > > 'bgp' > > Error in neighbor x.x.x.6 of group test-add-path: > > Add-path is not supported on external groups/peers > > error: configuration check-out failed As I noted earlier in the thread, add-paths for ebgp has known protocol issues that required extension for correct route selection. It's for this reason that no vendor that I'm aware of supports ebgp add-paths. The IXP case is somewhat unusual and might be okay for the majority of such cases, although it'd still result in temporal determinism. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Aug 1 07:33:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D54132187 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:33:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qDtgN-8ticqn for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E3413218B for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A82DF1E37E; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:33:59 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Nick Hilliard Cc: Enke Chen , "idr@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170801143359.GA24942@pfrc.org> References: <150024582910.32415.1807192204466699245@ietfa.amsl.com> <1840203b-a02f-deef-4299-3fe64aee033d@cisco.com> <59808851.5060303@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59808851.5060303@foobar.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:33:49 -0000 On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:55:29PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > I wonder about the wisdom of lots of routers sending unsolicited bfd > control packets. At the least, there ought to be a back-off mechanism > in place to slow things down where the non-Active router is ignoring > packets. Also, it would be good to have an explicit reject mechanism, > to stop streams of unsolicited bfd control packets completely. The BFD protocol, by default, backs off to 1pps when not in the Up state. > IXP participants will want some mechanism of never receiving BFD > solicitations. This would require protocol signaling, or provisioning. > Active/passive session collision may be a problem. I don't understand this. BFD already handles demux between common endpoints when in active/active. If a session comes up, it simply means that there's no reason to initiate another session when the previously passive side now has an active interest. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Aug 1 07:50:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA7C13218F for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eKD_NJqWcGcI for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x231.google.com (mail-it0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76C8613218B for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 77so9070013itj.1 for ; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 07:50:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=853J++gVWjcYt8qV78oIUq4ZUsW5ypK8vt6rM8uOiyY=; b=DUc5vPrsd5IbaK/d87MUAxSZWFBdpT+/f9UbRh9Lo7MeLznw5WoGQYxAYhC2yIt4VV QRE56lXaLdS38CK4Au7mi0ehhnfc2dWDKcO/vieY2e/iqgu+zjyPZKhOK4AeWhZd5Wzc qpAd1hRrn9gitko9p+qNNSZ1ayyGrvhxEn3lOplcQLibKJCduApcZDT0MlZ19ZCYhfEe B7HsF8+Nrx99f6dwndE7mdDqZvq96akRXs2JD/3hquZ5iSZKfjiflRC93Maj+cvi3VZY ScVd8KOOg7r72RtiWXrSdP8y+7ka/UaOzC00imxH/OoHXmZtzQW6SecKtxhAOtFWD9Iq nqNw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=853J++gVWjcYt8qV78oIUq4ZUsW5ypK8vt6rM8uOiyY=; b=dnIcAjV5kOWwposKNuh+2fGwrDmaHnYcSkmFO2TkWjBMMo1AM5uGaG+sBfVdDhuxBV OZcI4R+lziYiASjOHUWAlE9FcT6Ba42sd7phBd2BRh0V6eOIhw/RPQsQuAT8qeBMa2GO rb3tCZqXGeocyJQFCtDiPL4XvQ1Qc/aehyU/wn0eSMPiw6dR3egMkLJ+dZn98s+Irs83 wQum/JNrw03dJNoeigXjOL2HjpoU9kNvO+dp5yUgU77RpfCgIVUO9IlukJ1QWDeQe/sg o9uMeBcX9biUJgB0Afptzf52SGDpxXDOPmQpOsvTgXgdnO9AIfhzl2yc+lq8GLHNGK1c 1FTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111bZoCUsKKbT3TKdeOcqERfd5IiBhzlTUkpxfFrVqbLfWwh7Uxr FTz6Q487z+KX1JNkxlVvUP6+sFCgkA== X-Received: by 10.36.173.2 with SMTP id c2mr1996082itf.16.1501599028563; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 07:50:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 07:50:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 16:50:27 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: OXFbFf_8BOczs-e0ijBtPS2PkBU Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: Nick Hilliard , IETF IDR Working Group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1fd1e8b17e5a0555b244b4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:50:31 -0000 --94eb2c1fd1e8b17e5a0555b244b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Job, Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in RS. Sure each client may have his path in his view but this is not what will limit the next hop liveness decision. See messages and suggestions from John on how to treat failures reported by N clients as something more important then failures of NH reachability reported by one or two clients. In both cases they would affect entire RS not only those clients views. Cheers, R. On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > Hi Nick, > > I'll cherry pick a bit in responding. > > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:07:42PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > > - the proposal allows rsclient A to influence reachability for their > > competitor, rsclient B. This is a show-stopper in my books but other > > people may have different opinions. > > I am under the impression that the NHIB (Next Hop Information Base) is > per-client, like the Loc-RIB and Adj-RIB-Out are, so what you describe > shouldn't be an issue. See section 4.4 "The route server maintains a > per-client Next Hop Information Base". > > Kind regards, > > Job > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --94eb2c1fd1e8b17e5a0555b244b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Job,

Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability= are global in RS. Sure each client may have his path in his view but this = is not what will limit the next hop liveness decision.=C2=A0

See messages and suggestions from Jo= hn on how to treat failures reported by N clients as something more importa= nt then failures of NH reachability reported by one or two clients. In both= cases they would affect entire RS not only those clients views.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.


On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Job Snijder= s <jo= b@ntt.net> wrote:
Hi Nick,=

I'll cherry pick a bit in responding.

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:07:42PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
> -=C2=A0 the proposal allows rsclient A to influence reachability for t= heir
> competitor, rsclient B.=C2=A0 This is a show-stopper in my books but o= ther
> people may have different opinions.

I am under the impression that the NHIB (Next Hop Information Base) = is
per-client, like the Loc-RIB and Adj-RIB-Out are, so what you describe
shouldn't be an issue. See section 4.4 "The route server maintains= a
per-client Next Hop Information Base".

Kind regards,

Job

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--94eb2c1fd1e8b17e5a0555b244b4-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 09:38:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A5B131F3C for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:38:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vrqkqmmb5nBu for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F890131E96 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2D5861E345; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:38:59 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Enke Chen , "idr@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170801163858.GE24942@pfrc.org> References: <441c2f03-e061-726a-4b14-14c452d25f2e@cisco.com> <20170731191304.GW24942@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Comments on slides-99-idr-03-idr-rs-bfd_ietf99-00.pdf X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 16:38:46 -0000 On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:04:27AM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > ​So if resource of ADD-PATHS ALL is a major concern here how does new SAFI > solves this as compared with just sending all eligible next hops from RS to > clients in a new attribute ? You would need to do so without necessarily sending routes. One of our internal discussion points was "could we simply send the nexthops attached to something like a martian route so the prefix wouldn't get installed for forwarding?". I even had a rough draft of sending the full set of nexthops using extended communities as a carrier on such martian routes. Such proposals get ugly. It eventually simplified ot just the new safi. > After all client must establish all BFD sessions (or other probing) to > detect liveness of next hops, but client would not need to report back who > is up or down and would not need to wait for RS computing and distributing > new best path. He can simply switch locally forwarding to go to those next > hops which are up. As was mentioned on list and at mic at IETF-99: This proposal is compatible with add-paths. Whether the RS chooses to use the results of the client reachability for local route selection is optional. > Likewise RS would not need to become super powerful controller ... As pointed out at the MIC, the RS already does route selection within a view. This is simply proxying the reachability requirement for the nexthop per standard 4271 logic. This isn't super magic. Yes, it does work best when the client is in a view by itself. But as noted on-list, some IXPs deploy that way. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Aug 1 10:19:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198C31321B9 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:19:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LZPaVV0Erg9K for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E861321B4 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A4F111E345; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:19:54 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Nick Hilliard Cc: IETF IDR Working Group Message-ID: <20170801171954.GF24942@pfrc.org> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 17:19:42 -0000 Robert and Job answered some of the points already. I'll skip those. On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:07:42PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > It's unnecessary because if there is a mechanism available to broker bfd > sessions between rsclients, then this allows each rsclient to make their > own decision about whether they want to use this and make their own > decisions about NH reachability. If this is in place, the RS doesn't > need to augment this information because the client has all the tools > they need to be able to do this. In the absence of multiple paths from the RS, the only choice the client gets to make is use/don't use. > - it puts the ixp in the position of making pronouncements about the > reachability of its rsclient base. From a layer 9 point of view, it > could be argued that there might be liability problems if it gets this > wrong due to e.g. poisoned / late / incorrect data from rsclients. Vs. announce stuff that is blackholing? Recall we're having this conversation for a reason. > - the draft makes an implicit assumption that reachability between each > rsclient is a ternary state, which it is not. E.g. one of the most > common ixp commutativity failure situations is where you have an > ecmp/lag bundle between rsclient A and B, and a single member link dies, > leading to partial failure between A and B. If BFD and BGP work fine, > then the IXP has just made a pronouncement that NH reachability is good, > which it is not. Awkward. Already an existing issue. Perfect? No. Not trying to be. > - this proposal adds a good deal of complication to the interaction > between RS, rsclients and the routing decision engine functionality. Route selection using proxied reachability state in a RS view is hard? No, same as existing RS cost. The one valid criticism is what to do when a RS view contains multiple peers. In such cases, this proposal is less useful except in the clear case where all peers in the view are unable to reach the relevant nexthop. > - route server connectivity brokerage is generally considered to be the > poor first cousin of bilateral connectivity over an IXP and the poor > second cousin of a private network interconnection. If an rsclient > cares enough about its data flows that reachability is sufficiently > important to justify being protected by BFD, then I'd argue that they > should just do this rather than outsourcing the problem to someone else. The issue is fundamental to BGP third-party nexthops. It's particularly the case when such nexthops are available across a fundamentally NBMA environment. > There are plenty of automation tools out there and it's not that hard > to do. It's not clear what you're suggesting. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Aug 1 11:32:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461F413226B for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G_2T8UHyRc_9 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f52.google.com (mail-wm0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9845D1321F1 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-f52.google.com with SMTP id t201so22469024wmt.0 for ; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=hqhPr2V75AfLWsGIeaEbvc1tlf5TaMB9iofHrlXeMYs=; b=VZp5lryvZEIffx2AKH8tFttC7yrbwhrIrCnU2ypeWZ1qkH4Rw8EJy5eFomSQ3GoaFJ z92MEXHVvxjRMCAWmK6+FkSv2UgdCeMiWu6PWEm3sfskU/23LVtWn5q0j/lW4rGQs9D0 u3vziThEjTuiQpJDmmlh4PTSVpcGR76KlkUMkD9fVgoV/OKIp5gikUNU0hiWo606njVv mBCayVrc4e1DSYlgC/ffCtQUdytbcjYzqhIDl198lCPCbBVw4VV0wA1ziaIlzkAlsGW5 EWT5Lst+dvRpAFFr1DFqwL6huHo3D3lhDaejZIp5QI62gftuQSTG90gcFaFn8tBNf9HK SgpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112X3D7G7OIcd8se48N5Cavr10BMv90+FerW8uoMkvBmQ0hVqNq6 y7JuMMLgpv4h2w7n X-Received: by 10.80.168.34 with SMTP id j31mr18617672edc.87.1501612362894; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2001:67c:208c:10:3dc6:a9a2:10ff:6f76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w26sm1156071edw.94.2017.08.01.11.32.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:32:39 +0200 From: Job Snijders To: Robert Raszuk Cc: IETF IDR Working Group Message-ID: <20170801183239.dxkw7twqn42jgggz@Vurt.local> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:32:46 -0000 Hi Robert, On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 04:50:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in > RS. Sure each client may have his path in his view but this is not > what will limit the next hop liveness decision. > > See messages and suggestions from John on how to treat failures > reported by N clients as something more important then failures of NH > reachability reported by one or two clients. In both cases they would > affect entire RS not only those clients views. This surprises me. If clients A & B report that they can't reach Z, that doesn't imply anything about whether C can reach Z. In such a scenario would be somewhat counter-intuitive if the RS prunes all paths with next-hop Z from C's Loc-RIB, based on a message from client A or B. I think I would benefit from further elaboration on what the draft's intentions are in this regard. Kind regards, Job From nobody Tue Aug 1 11:38:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF3B13229F for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:38:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E5FvofB6aUOg for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22b.google.com (mail-it0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B456A1321F1 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id h199so12362921ith.0 for ; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:38:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=EEJ0RRHyTY9+v50eVbHsYzn/Bjo9gL5o05gZ9b+0J28=; b=evDtb2JgJUoVv4dQubjrkvtZ/Moo5pJn+5sbUejEu7x4Cwv00p+tCieZQU5ud6CnWK oK6AmWwkaQPf2P+lk2y3UUo8tC2jOt4Zph1bphv4jrBDfEnpB1s5kHC+2TzRAeg/C2Yc t+2Y1Anm0AkzR1KshGJbbPXe4UXv4JjUKgWKWYZvgVu7L85rw/AHvLgv1XaF5fnLllg1 zIiAD9AKAr70HbnhMTX1Bvu7GQvpSSYTstFEeeeaCFbD3/EqC3YCZzuvFEF/peRIfzB9 g9PUGTLuFbwuLIEdOs2Tv+xBt2tCCfT6QBdcg6a/BpV0U7DjXCA/d1cMd+I69QH9tlWy kmug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EEJ0RRHyTY9+v50eVbHsYzn/Bjo9gL5o05gZ9b+0J28=; b=h9aEqt/MgAkpGiCe0+HAyYH1S/MK9ELQ6xbt55PhQ1WIlQNj5OVi2HvzvY9m/4JMX7 /f/ec5FO39XHq80ZNMx+fn7qNT1UiJ/KyG/3AUN4aNq/n6/2w099ftW9rLVqNdCeRVHf uDRawnXep0xixerA1qzGCmyBLsa2vOzNke0KLHmEz8TXPpJkKKydQDc5bIxgYZRBaG2y m5uEMuFtJXennKzEzpiW3LhM2FMDUhizwmS1xBym8RRBwRgdIaUdpGiuRygiEJKiYZSb 27KG5ClcaQGb/RweNOzOcRJGFn5b0eMeYZBl6R4WZs9EThdP24aKMbyJAvdJ1iM5bpDa WzHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112wzC445UgdhUwBSq+upQrHdtiy2DorMu/sbgM3ZwjjpDP9FOdC rUnecD4M4fl6TTEjRqUyE8P0kV3rj8ih X-Received: by 10.36.105.82 with SMTP id e79mr2982280itc.118.1501612722689; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:38:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:38:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170801183239.dxkw7twqn42jgggz@Vurt.local> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> <20170801183239.dxkw7twqn42jgggz@Vurt.local> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:38:41 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: U65zOLH8NAs1wLoiBiOZ53D0tw0 Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: IETF IDR Working Group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145a6b6ed1c1a0555b574f8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:38:45 -0000 --001a1145a6b6ed1c1a0555b574f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Job, Indeed intentions of authors of this draft in this respect would be very useful. I think the notion was that if few clients report that they can not reach Z then it means that Z is down for all other clients. So if A, B tell RS that Z is down that could trigger declaring Z as unreachable for all especially if C does not even support the new SAFI. The other interesting question is if Z is the only next hop for a prefix P for a client does it get withdrawn or is left as the only resort to reach P ? Thx, R. On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > Hi Robert, > > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 04:50:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in > > RS. Sure each client may have his path in his view but this is not > > what will limit the next hop liveness decision. > > > > See messages and suggestions from John on how to treat failures > > reported by N clients as something more important then failures of NH > > reachability reported by one or two clients. In both cases they would > > affect entire RS not only those clients views. > > This surprises me. If clients A & B report that they can't reach Z, that > doesn't imply anything about whether C can reach Z. In such a scenario > would be somewhat counter-intuitive if the RS prunes all paths with > next-hop Z from C's Loc-RIB, based on a message from client A or B. > > I think I would benefit from further elaboration on what the draft's > intentions are in this regard. > > Kind regards, > > Job > --001a1145a6b6ed1c1a0555b574f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Job,

Indeed intentions of authors of this draft in this re= spect would be very useful.=C2=A0

I think the notion was that if few clients report that they c= an not reach Z then it means that Z is down for all other clients.=C2=A0

So if A, B tell RS that = Z is down that could trigger declaring Z as unreachable for all especially = if C does not even support the new SAFI.=C2=A0

=
The other interesting question is if Z is the only= next hop for a prefix P for a client does it get withdrawn or is left as t= he only resort to reach P ?

Thx,
R.


On Tue, Aug 1,= 2017 at 8:32 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
Hi Robert,

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 04:50:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in > RS.=C2=A0 Sure each client may have his path in his view but this is n= ot
> what will limit the next hop liveness decision.
>
> See messages and suggestions from John on how to treat failures
> reported by N clients as something more important then failures of NH<= br> > reachability reported by one or two clients. In both cases they would<= br> > affect entire RS not only those clients views.

This surprises me. If clients A & B report that they can't r= each Z, that
doesn't imply anything about whether C can reach Z. In such a scenario<= br> would be somewhat counter-intuitive if the RS prunes all paths with
next-hop Z from C's Loc-RIB, based on a message from client A or B.

I think I would benefit from further elaboration on what the draft's intentions are in this regard.

Kind regards,

Job

--001a1145a6b6ed1c1a0555b574f8-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:13:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C1C1322F2 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:13:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7LJTqqY759lC for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:81::67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 710D71322E3 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94209435B6 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:13:19 +0200 (CEST) X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29EA4512B; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:47:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id CF9C3237C7; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:47:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:47:36 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Job Snijders , IETF IDR Working Group Message-ID: <20170801184736.GL45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-NCC-RegID: de.space User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.2 (2017-04-18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:13:24 -0000 Hi, On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 04:50:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in RS. This would be a possible but fairly silly implementation choice. The whole point is that reachability issues on a too-large fabric are not universal - otherwise, the RS would lose reachability to the client in question as well, and the whole point would be moot. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:15:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CAE61322DC for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:15:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnKG116etp8s for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:81::67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AED7F1322D3 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:15:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD5042A41 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:15:52 +0200 (CEST) X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFED545065; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id B22AF237C0; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:46:10 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Nick Hilliard Cc: IETF IDR Working Group Message-ID: <20170801184610.GK45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> X-NCC-RegID: de.space User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.2 (2017-04-18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:15:57 -0000 Hi, On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:07:42PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > - the proposal allows rsclient A to influence reachability for their > competitor, rsclient B. This is a show-stopper in my books but other > people may have different opinions. How so? A can communicate "*I* can not reach Z" (or "B"). How's that interfering with B's reachability towards and from X, Y, Z? [..] > - the draft makes an implicit assumption that reachability between each > rsclient is a ternary state, which it is not. E.g. one of the most > common ixp commutativity failure situations is where you have an > ecmp/lag bundle between rsclient A and B, and a single member link dies, > leading to partial failure between A and B. If BFD and BGP work fine, > then the IXP has just made a pronouncement that NH reachability is good, > which it is not. Awkward. This situation is neither made better nor worse by this draft. [..] > - route server connectivity brokerage is generally considered to be the > poor first cousin of bilateral connectivity over an IXP and the poor > second cousin of a private network interconnection. If an rsclient > cares enough about its data flows that reachability is sufficiently > important to justify being protected by BFD, then I'd argue that they > should just do this rather than outsourcing the problem to someone else. > There are plenty of automation tools out there and it's not that hard > to do. Speaking as an operator and user of an IXP RS, I value the service that these RS bring to us. "Plenty of automation tools" do not replace "not having to deal with 100s of other IXP participants that cannot even get e-mail right". Right now, indirect reachability issues are an issue - not frequently, but if they are, annoying and hard to see nonetheless. Sending information about these in an automated fashion to the IXP operator is a good thing in my book. > Please let's keep rs bfd brokerage as simple as possible. I don't want > front-line ixp support issues to have to be dealt with by 3rd line > engineering. If your IXP does not want to offer this feature, then don't. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:21:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38DE11322F1 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:21:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63iYbKW8099T for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x230.google.com (mail-it0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 004091317CC for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x230.google.com with SMTP id h199so12934929ith.0 for ; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:21:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=yiQzCCeNFyvvGH3MrcuEoeo0eEwhwOPE86wEwaBLL+k=; b=AAKzSMz+267f+SE+Wd6t2tXrZ7W+/WN640Y8RHyLckg+ER6lh52ucstIEKNgTGzaKr 7OG8OFr1dcSrKUJpTdcNj1GvjgDP3a0z5CoayRz8/bj/inc1hPPstM7+c924st29Zi3f 6g3Nuh4RW+J2TfsCqYkiT5Fx+LWh9HZRG59KZJaEFSMvmsNsU9k53nv4HyvOAdiEbVRL AGTatUPmnUtp/hWJrBJw/yTua8zTVH8LjGHFYhm6nhAxmYyuUYyglycC2StFEdYYEuk3 5lz273rWSgceohemFYRpAo/QqmQLYPZSxoS4DqKmIOvLCae7aQqahKCaXogdA/U0lwCf M8dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yiQzCCeNFyvvGH3MrcuEoeo0eEwhwOPE86wEwaBLL+k=; b=D5UjuIa/u1C3xMPtmIzhl9aYciXEqyipXYq5zqnBLum9n9xqeZtiG0VwiDlMsEpe55 ny25q+I9aVpT4brDskdTSfNbHjyiunFucHYn6kQyrZS/kpAt5YUa7oCUAfreRRCJzmo0 Ntn47iRK3+0/5+a0uIpvlrjlafquUXuUbdh0dddaiadrD+j9ZSOA8Z/q5mXJ3OcZUg/b igCPFNp5X5zRaL1OxTnK935QDWLsWGCL83KaQqeZBrWKx/y3UNcjLyNMPladFUrqUXRo VFTsnM0n9uFgSZyfzgUEAMY/SQQB9qDynWf8J180CEr0n/pGFhwsqcpkiQ9kPTKyTWWk FLhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112SMvW9Ia6p1e4t9v1un4B1GBaOr/5cnasvR9Q6cLfwkT++/EpM tVxo66/9MoLYwcDCTBMQuAvIBaoI6sz9dYk= X-Received: by 10.36.101.211 with SMTP id u202mr2909620itb.33.1501615311174; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:21:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:21:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170801184736.GL45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> <20170801184736.GL45648@Space.Net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:21:50 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6mONwRyw-neRitIickv20Spq038 Message-ID: To: Gert Doering Cc: IETF IDR Working Group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145a2163640d50555b60fbc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:21:54 -0000 --001a1145a2163640d50555b60fbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" That's the quote from John's mail on this topic: "One observation regarding the "RR won't scale if it has to do per-client route selection" concern -- it seems to me it would be entirely feasible for an implementation to associate some figure-of-merit with each next hop, a function of its reported reachability by each of its indirect peers. That figure-of-merit could be used during traditional (not per-client) route selection. The general idea would be "if one other client can't reach you, that's their problem, if dozens of other clients can't reach you, maybe we should choose a different next hop if we've got one" [*]. Think of it as making the binary resolvability condition of RFC 4271 9.1.2.1 fuzzy. I think specifying the function would be beyond the scope of this (or really, any) draft since it's "just policy". But it demonstrates there's some potential benefit from the proposal without going all the way down to per-client route selection." On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 04:50:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in RS. > > This would be a possible but fairly silly implementation choice. > > The whole point is that reachability issues on a too-large fabric are > not universal - otherwise, the RS would lose reachability to the client > in question as well, and the whole point would be moot. > > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a1145a2163640d50555b60fbc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's the quote from John's ma= il on this topic:

"One observa= tion regarding the "RR won't scale if it has to do per-client rout= e selection" concern -- it seems to me it would be entirely feasible f= or an implementation to associate some figure-of-merit with each next hop, = a function of its reported reachability by each of its indirect peers. That= figure-of-merit could be used during traditional (not per-client) route se= lection. The general idea would be "if one other client can't reac= h you, that's their problem, if dozens of other clients can't reach= you, maybe we should choose a different next hop if we've got one"= ; [*]. Think of it as making the binary resolvability condition of RFC 4271= 9.1.2.1 fuzzy.

I think specifying th= e function would be beyond the scope of this (or really, any) draft since i= t's "just policy". But it demonstrates there's some poten= tial benefit from the proposal without going all the way down to per-client= route selection."


=

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>= wrote:
Hi,

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 04:50:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reach= ability are global in RS.

This would be a possible but fairly silly implementation choice.

The whole point is that reachability issues on a too-large fabric are
not universal - otherwise, the RS would lose reachability to the client
in question as well, and the whole point would be moot.

Gert Doering
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- NetMaster
--
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Aufsichtsratsvo= rs.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: = +49 (0)89/32356-444=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0USt-IdNr.: = DE813185279

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--001a1145a2163640d50555b60fbc-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:53:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61C9132301 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:53:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Df6tF8v9FOW for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:81::67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BC63131C84 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:53:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A0742961 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:53:14 +0200 (CEST) X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F824292D; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id C401923B49; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:53:13 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: Nick Hilliard , IETF IDR Working Group Message-ID: <20170801195313.GP45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801171954.GF24942@pfrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170801171954.GF24942@pfrc.org> X-NCC-RegID: de.space User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.2 (2017-04-18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:53:18 -0000 Hi, On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 01:19:54PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > There are plenty of automation tools out there and it's not that hard > > to do. > It's not clear what you're suggesting. Nick was proposing "just do not bother using route-servers and always set up direct peerings, using automatization to solve all the problems caused by non-responsive / non-caring peers". Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From nobody Tue Aug 1 13:29:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D68A1321A5 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i15yRQh7u1h5 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 658DE132182 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from crumpet.local (089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71KTT7q037287 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:29:29 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged) claimed to be crumpet.local Message-ID: <5980E4A8.30009@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 21:29:28 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.16 (Macintosh/20170718) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gert Doering CC: Jeffrey Haas , IETF IDR Working Group References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801171954.GF24942@pfrc.org> <20170801195313.GP45648@Space.Net> In-Reply-To: <20170801195313.GP45648@Space.Net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 20:29:34 -0000 Gert Doering wrote: > Nick was proposing "just do not bother using route-servers and always > set up direct peerings, using automatization to solve all the problems > caused by non-responsive / non-caring peers". here's what I'm proposing: - it would be a great idea for route servers to broker BFD sessions - the gain provided by implementation of proposals like this will be measured in minutes per year. - the NH reachability feedback mechanism defined in draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd is too complicated for its own good and goes well past the point of diminishing returns - draft-chen-bfd-unsolicited is slightly too naive an approach to this problem and ixp participants will end up being unhappy with its results - if the NH reachability mechanism is cut out of draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd and replaced with a BFD candidacy mechanism, it would provide an very good all-round fit for most peoples' bfd requirements - the remaining small segment of organisations whose requirements cannot be satisfied by this should use bilateral peering sessions - organisations who feel strongly about fast convergence and connectivity commutativity problems at IXPs need to think very carefully about whether route servers are the best approach for their requirements in the first place - these last two sets of organisations are probably clued in enough to be able to handle their peering requirements via automation (i.e. hooking euro-ix json schema / peeringdb / etc into tools like napalm). Nick From nobody Tue Aug 1 13:36:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73333131838 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jQscGADP4Hcy for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28C78129B40 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:36:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from crumpet.local (089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71KZwhU038102 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:35:58 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged) claimed to be crumpet.local Message-ID: <5980E62D.4040505@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 21:35:57 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.16 (Macintosh/20170718) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Haas CC: Robert Raszuk , "idr@ietf.org" References: <441c2f03-e061-726a-4b14-14c452d25f2e@cisco.com> <20170731191304.GW24942@pfrc.org> <20170801163858.GE24942@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20170801163858.GE24942@pfrc.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Comments on slides-99-idr-03-idr-rs-bfd_ietf99-00.pdf X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 20:36:03 -0000 Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Yes, it does work best when the client is in a view by itself. But as noted > on-list, some IXPs deploy that way. you could probably upgrade that to from "some" to "most". Per client loc-rib is pretty standard these days. Nick From nobody Tue Aug 1 14:14:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98990127735 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:14:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JA2q5jF8Ob7r for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8A91124217 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:14:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from crumpet.local (089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v71LEXWY042537 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Aug 2017 22:14:34 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged) claimed to be crumpet.local Message-ID: <5980EF38.8030500@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 22:14:32 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.16 (Macintosh/20170718) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Haas CC: IETF IDR Working Group References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801171954.GF24942@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <20170801171954.GF24942@pfrc.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 21:14:38 -0000 Jeffrey Haas wrote: > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:07:42PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: >> It's unnecessary because if there is a mechanism available to broker bfd >> sessions between rsclients, then this allows each rsclient to make their >> own decision about whether they want to use this and make their own >> decisions about NH reachability. If this is in place, the RS doesn't >> need to augment this information because the client has all the tools >> they need to be able to do this. > > In the absence of multiple paths from the RS, the only choice the client > gets to make is use/don't use. that's an acceptable compromise. IXPs provide alternative / nearer paths, but never the only path. Add-path is orthogonal to this problem: it would be a useful addition for providing alternatives, but the nature of IXPs is such that it's not necessary. >> - it puts the ixp in the position of making pronouncements about the >> reachability of its rsclient base. From a layer 9 point of view, it >> could be argued that there might be liability problems if it gets this >> wrong due to e.g. poisoned / late / incorrect data from rsclients. > > Vs. announce stuff that is blackholing? Recall we're having this > conversation for a reason. this is a policy / optics point: the difference between the two things is that a baseline RS announces a NH without making any pronouncement about the NH's reachability. draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd is making a statement about the NH's reachability, but based on heuristics which we know will not take into account all failure modes of an IXP fabric, particularly some of the more common ones (i.e. partial reachability). The baseline RS performance will not perform as well from a technical point of view. The draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd could potentially open the IXP operator up to service loss liability if a statement is made about NH reachability which is not true from the point of view of any pair of RS clients. [...] > It's not clear what you're suggesting. see my earlier reply to Gert. Nick From nobody Tue Aug 1 23:44:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A57131600 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:43:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62-bQnX-_ZK6 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2B66124C27 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dcnNq-0007hA-OJ; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 06:43:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 15:43:52 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Job Snijders , IETF IDR Working Group In-Reply-To: References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/24.5 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 06:43:59 -0000 > Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in RS. nope From nobody Wed Aug 2 02:07:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D86131C9D for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:07:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mazt88C9wfVr for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com (mail-io0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A60F127978 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id g13so17842192ioj.5 for ; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 02:07:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=8MjhosZf6cntofgC+a6FG79Ep4rCL8DbCwwysbdM9DI=; b=YitPaKn9NjN58xSI0HvEqH6lE2MhJ87BAATt9RJEz/+Xy+8bnWI6nlu/EtoJgDkvaw SLeb0FGMXiVt/RXbPXomAGhFsY8WtvESgafyAJDrooDsDNw9yD4YxEn2u2COuumQzeit MxHX0ZMtD+zYgC/trBSjq28y6IqaEUEA8BFY8Cc25t5pZQVo/kwLKgzUliLipUHUyaxY RZ42CZY1i3coyJVmohu1s0A2ldAOZ0/BfrJ7lOa1LgYQD5QO6g7lCCZ0AEYAYfdWQ8Y/ LplgBSxRMSV1clWszltx7pAjG5arc65wKPAdHkhEAYLZFWvf5niQ0QYtW8QaRmwYUfiI QCDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8MjhosZf6cntofgC+a6FG79Ep4rCL8DbCwwysbdM9DI=; b=tufV6JELAnmxZjJrl6Cb8VAgDTRXSxiILg4YrAogIX29JsQlBpzgUDDz1c2D7POGw/ JNK7brmxE1kRZyW7AOwNswAvJy4Huhfea4BybQ7TJ9jG0niL9+H4U1GgFn7X8X7epQb1 S+MCkts00Ef3vza9Tz7ASK4aOLBBKf/wIW3svPBlTc2g+lTHPCaCuDI+qg769qdnR6uM QPLeTf4/YsX7omwDxiD5x5ZRxu/CLDfgSid78DU644W8uMwPFM+kpAUrQ6JluteUtB5u ipk+1HLGcBFO65BJeg5J4CYo8JDAGzr0YjbpMn6onBOMP6+QKzrE92JqfjA3vhtP4bEj MkkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112drDXtuFfIb25og1SK/vh0iia6yLgm1YfLt+XftXRaYRSw8jQe qG+jEv5xRfEGyrlGY/KGOMrb/y1YdykP X-Received: by 10.107.16.101 with SMTP id y98mr24535644ioi.196.1501664866812; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 02:07:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:07:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:07:45 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XLpsNGmga6Vuhp1yLNdorzzmMN0 Message-ID: To: Randy Bush Cc: idr wg , Job Snijders Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113e9f62f54a450555c19836" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 09:07:49 -0000 --001a113e9f62f54a450555c19836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Interesting ... Look at section 5 of yr draft: "The next hop field is the key for the NH-Reach NLRI type". As defined today your new NLRI encoding in MP_REACH does not have per client distinguisher. And if it is the NLRI key as the draft states good luck to have the next hop information it carries scoped to be per client. Best, R. On Aug 2, 2017 2:43 AM, "Randy Bush" wrote: > > Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop reachability are global in RS. > > nope > --001a113e9f62f54a450555c19836 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting ...

Look at section 5 of yr draft:

"The next hop field is = the key for the NH-Reach NLRI type".

As defined today your new NLRI encoding in MP_= REACH does not have per client distinguisher. And if it is the NLRI key as = the draft states good luck to have the next hop information it carries scop= ed to be per client.

Best,
R.

On Aug 2, 2017 2:43 AM, "Randy Bush" <randy@psg.com> wrote:
> Not quite ... Nick is correct - next hop re= achability are global in RS.

nope
--001a113e9f62f54a450555c19836-- From nobody Wed Aug 2 02:32:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD427131D6D for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:32:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aOlygvBKRb5f for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:81::67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F371C127978 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0064C429CC for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:32:34 +0200 (CEST) X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03F7429BF; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 9D4AB23901; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:32:33 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Randy Bush , idr wg Message-ID: <20170802093233.GR45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-NCC-RegID: de.space User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.2 (2017-04-18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 09:32:38 -0000 Hi, On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 11:07:45AM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Interesting ... > > Look at section 5 of yr draft: > > "The next hop field is the key for the NH-Reach NLRI type". > > As defined today your new NLRI encoding in MP_REACH does not have per > client distinguisher. And if it is the NLRI key as the draft states good > luck to have the next hop information it carries scoped to be per client. It's an implemention decision on whether the RS sees this as global or per-client thing. Since RSs already today do many things in ways the original BGP specs did not envision (like, per-client bestpath calculation) doing this particular one globally does not sound (as said before) like the most reasonable implementation decision. OTOH, if the draft had a few more words on this (like, "It is RECOMMENDED that next-hop reachability is considered a per-client value. A route-server MAY decide that a given next-hop should not be considered anymore for any client if more than a configurable threshold of clients report unreachability.") it would help to de-confuse readers. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From nobody Wed Aug 2 03:49:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C46A131EB8 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:49:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AVQPNOgYmhwX for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com (mail-io0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A1FC131FBE for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id o9so18975326iod.1 for ; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 03:49:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=AtIi9EF7DKxduZrmukjzzNAazuGEUX+ojlKvj8MZYK8=; b=jRVpimiDdmfDTyw6VawJZ/aP/0V3RclkYOwKmmw8LDXPTicJ81DrBumi0J22mU3T8L nWcN5xPkTVLmCNrEPb/AEyr+bk3lwQRGjGOmNs9fviseabwJj15caZTvwtkQCunFhWvE Cq4HQVKJICzQRK7oD+yH/lGvQp3ZCJKEaOHXnkpXWXw4Z3+5U195KWyfTgYAammLfIxl d6OXsGMAPN7acAyx5hpnhWDphJssMnhCbHjgPG8dpEL6vqvs/kE9PlXRWFcNSFmeKNus z5xPI96tuqovgIlygBnR6vSaGjMX1QERIPn+NOgtsW52EtVkX3hgf1722QgGoWPZwr/O CRqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AtIi9EF7DKxduZrmukjzzNAazuGEUX+ojlKvj8MZYK8=; b=njorS9KUAvwedw7y8YMRH0DgWh/C+Su5tJ8KZcpI/v0VCgWDf3jJoy0AyqynU9fEDK 6PTvQ1vKcLwstyFmYbI3rBQx6DZCUpMXkmFSj4FOz6UZjrggYddrLLgj8JsW6wC2kDfI +FcsIbGrFsXFEZGB30HJD82dtnp154IFHBx8Z4jjkxwtMcdRMgz8mCjU40uXry8ui7lo tKAvq0gsVgqaHU7vlcxoWLmpLm+qGixthWOC2afxfHQswhy5VMnRRdqMhmEKD4OWEr8m FdtwsXETIfUSnFgILTCOxHWCLZAt4XQ5n2sQsDUyG2sxi3Mze0b5329SLUulW/PuSCub PxUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw1117iK9QEJJUSeAQ7kYF2LLDVN9k0YfriXGJY/r5TBvWEMOkG50P /gEgw18NiH2D8IXuLptv00+DbKsWMg== X-Received: by 10.107.16.101 with SMTP id y98mr24771874ioi.196.1501670981847; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 03:49:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.153.21 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:49:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170802093233.GR45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> <20170802093233.GR45648@Space.Net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 12:49:40 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: fu0DZEnNVyW-k__KQMdjWHHXwfg Message-ID: To: Gert Doering Cc: idr wg , Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113e9f627150f50555c3053e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:49:44 -0000 --001a113e9f627150f50555c3053e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Gert, Sure you can say that this is implementation detail ... but if you design protocol right implementation becomes much easier. Q: Let's consider a scenario that RS client has a view with some bgp policy. Now this client is using 1500 mtu lan and 9k mtu lan for ipv4 connectivity via ix. As reachability to next hops may be different for each lan are we going to have two sessions of new safi between RS and said client ? Or are we in this case going to put such client into two different contexts on RS ? Cheers R. On Aug 2, 2017 5:32 AM, "Gert Doering" wrote: Hi, On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 11:07:45AM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Interesting ... > > Look at section 5 of yr draft: > > "The next hop field is the key for the NH-Reach NLRI type". > > As defined today your new NLRI encoding in MP_REACH does not have per > client distinguisher. And if it is the NLRI key as the draft states good > luck to have the next hop information it carries scoped to be per client. It's an implemention decision on whether the RS sees this as global or per-client thing. Since RSs already today do many things in ways the original BGP specs did not envision (like, per-client bestpath calculation) doing this particular one globally does not sound (as said before) like the most reasonable implementation decision. OTOH, if the draft had a few more words on this (like, "It is RECOMMENDED that next-hop reachability is considered a per-client value. A route-server MAY decide that a given next-hop should not be considered anymore for any client if more than a configurable threshold of clients report unreachability.") it would help to de-confuse readers. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 --001a113e9f627150f50555c3053e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gert,

Sure you can say that this is implementation detail ... but if you design= protocol right implementation becomes much easier.
=
Q:

Let's consider a scenario that RS client has a view with some bg= p policy. Now this client is using 1500 mtu lan and 9k mtu lan for ipv4 con= nectivity via ix.

As rea= chability to next hops may be different for each lan are we going to have t= wo sessions of new safi between RS and said client ? Or are we in this case= going to put such client into two different contexts on RS ?

Cheers
R.

On Aug 2, 20= 17 5:32 AM, "Gert Doering" <= gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,

On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 11:07:45AM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Interesting ...
>
> Look at section 5 of yr draft:
>
> "The next hop field is the key for the NH-Reach NLRI type".<= br> >
> As defined today your new NLRI encoding in MP_REACH does not have per<= br> > client distinguisher. And if it is the NLRI key as the draft states go= od
> luck to have the next hop information it carries scoped to be per clie= nt.

It's an implemention decision on whether the RS sees this as glob= al
or per-client thing.

Since RSs already today do many things in ways the original BGP specs
did not envision (like, per-client bestpath calculation) doing this
particular one globally does not sound (as said before) like the most
reasonable implementation decision.

OTOH, if the draft had a few more words on this (like, "It is RECOMMEN= DED
that next-hop reachability is considered a per-client value.=C2=A0 A route-= server
MAY decide that a given next-hop should not be considered anymore for
any client if more than a configurable threshold of clients report
unreachability.") it would help to de-confuse readers.

Gert Doering
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- NetMaster
--
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Aufsichtsratsvo= rs.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: = +49 (0)89/32356-444=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0USt-IdNr.: = DE813185279

--001a113e9f627150f50555c3053e-- From nobody Wed Aug 2 04:05:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C1B131FF8 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y_EyMQfOXh0Q for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [195.30.115.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECB77131FE6 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0688429CD for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:05:49 +0200 (CEST) X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true X-SpaceNet-Relay: true Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8945429C9; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:05:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id A4CBB23D09; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:05:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:05:49 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Gert Doering , idr wg , Randy Bush Message-ID: <20170802110549.GW45648@Space.Net> References: <59807D1E.4050807@foobar.org> <20170801133109.fdupuhfooudham5d@hanna.meerval.net> <20170802093233.GR45648@Space.Net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d40veJ2BMmcx+T4O" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-NCC-RegID: de.space User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.2 (2017-04-18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] comments on draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 11:05:55 -0000 --d40veJ2BMmcx+T4O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 12:49:40PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Sure you can say that this is implementation detail ... but if you design > protocol right implementation becomes much easier. >=20 > Q: >=20 > Let's consider a scenario that RS client has a view with some bgp policy. > Now this client is using 1500 mtu lan and 9k mtu lan for ipv4 connectivity > via ix. >=20 > As reachability to next hops may be different for each lan are we going to > have two sessions of new safi between RS and said client ? Or are we in > this case going to put such client into two different contexts on RS ? If you have two independent LANs, I can not see primary IPv4 for two different set of peers (aka "subnets of next-hops") go over a single=20 eBGP session to a RS located outside the subnet for at least one of them. OTOH I've never been at an IXP that has different-mtu VLANs and "joint" RS, so I can't speak from experience here. Seems the draft needs to document edge cases like this. Gert Doering -- NetMaster --=20 have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 --d40veJ2BMmcx+T4O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEruB5jRHVM+CjiYD131bAZeTOf8UFAlmBsgoACgkQ31bAZeTO f8XRiA/+Ppi0l+lRyayeeSGubz9qZ3pJA/clnOhQvNlMQFj5rNnRxMyD03S/3MlS pBYr3UfUQucOkISuBa1PA5mwBW8guqBUPm7AKQyY/nxHhZbf6Rlq+4RtYW59I/4h DPL5Lyzk1KHvgf4+lQBcDmQ97a9q8irsf+jMjLuk6u35Psqv3I6jGSt0BiY2R1ZL FDfEZJ903F7M10zJ2aOLxcjBJ+Id/SKWNM9bX8Ej0j3o0t6HTHnQ0kcYP3ho6VHP swl97eRYB6PsITypSSDvLs3C5tttgX/ak3zrte7Xyt9+VfvOFQcIuS8Uwq2TNw2v uyT7WaSLcCYmrgs1PTyBg+D2HtG9m/xa0TgCcfqqm1VZQHtSAFunOrmfcjWyEXdC sQ5MOtMSHcUDrC01KTo+V4kztMX6LaOOhB2ibZPJskQUasQBDlLESVdXNPX2uLZR uPfpy/9tWE6jhy3JVdio4tmF7TFWxZn0jNWdj78ADJlDXSLf3p4jUnN9+2m8G6BL AzkmxYisHKtKNbT5wGdond2hxf/NSjh9hWvJn6tiZ67fdHCr3wZu/4BBFk2t3wNq D8A3LvY0mXGAWLNLwCNLn4kszLitaSDGL0ZQusQY1b4ZoBcINdS7esd+AU/EFgkT uUSOQmQGaTQDTTAR5sBGnD0SFAfdkhzeb5ocIPz8VO38ytM9sPY= =j/q5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --d40veJ2BMmcx+T4O-- From nobody Wed Aug 2 22:03:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541A1126DD9; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 22:03:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150173662830.5665.3275515416337620297@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:03:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 05:03:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering Performance Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Qin Wu Hannes Gredler Saikat Ray Jeff Tantsura Clarence Filsfils Filename : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-07.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2017-08-02 Abstract: This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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05 Aug 2017 05:23:50 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v755NnMh018146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 Aug 2017 05:23:50 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 00:23:49 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 00:23:49 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Jeff Tantsura , Job Snijders , "John G. Scudder" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" CC: Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr wg" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts Thread-Index: AdL7nWosFbh13zxaTe29YgdiZl93UQB+CRWAAADnRIAAAWQjgAAAEggABAKqdHA= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 05:23:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <999f002984de432bb168f60309d66b63@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <7DCAAFA1-1E14-4374-834B-4E6FB174ACFE@gmail.com> <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.89.88] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_f4289b163f99483b8777d0071116cc85XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 05:23:54 -0000 --_000_f4289b163f99483b8777d0071116cc85XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgQWxsLA0KDQpUaGUgSUFOQSBlYXJseSBhbGxvY2F0aW9uIGhhcyBiZWVuIGRvbmUgZm9yIHRo ZSBCR1AtTFMgU1IgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIGRyYWZ0cyBub3csIGJ1dCB0aGUgb3RoZXIgdHdvIGRyYWZ0 cyByZWxhdGVkIHRvIE1TRCBhbmQgZHJhZnQtaWRyLXRlLXBtIGFyZSBzdGlsbCBwZW5kaW5nIGVh cmx5IGFsbG9jYXRpb25zLiBNYXkgSSByZXF1ZXN0IHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIHRvIHBsZWFzZSByZXF1 ZXN0IGZvciB0aGUgc2FtZSBhdCB0aGUgZWFybGllc3Q/DQoNCldlIGhhdmUgYSBjb2xsaXNpb24g cmlnaHQgbm93IGJldHdlZW4gdGhlc2UgZHJhZnRzIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgcHJldmlvdXNseSDigJxz dWdnZXN0ZWTigJ0gY29kZSBwb2ludCB2YWx1ZXMgc28gd291bGQgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBpZiB0aGlz IHdhcyByZXNvbHZlZCBBU0FQIHRvIGFpZCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMuDQoNCkZvciB0aGUgcmVj 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([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 13:48:24 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Jeff Tantsura , Job Snijders , "John G. Scudder" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , idr wg , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts Thread-Index: AQHS/Wu4R42l+m/P+k6DdauFh9qsFA== Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 17:48:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <999f002984de432bb168f60309d66b63@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <7DCAAFA1-1E14-4374-834B-4E6FB174ACFE@gmail.com> <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5AB670BBF87Aaceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:14:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts 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([2607:fb90:842a:c3f8:cc9a:5b50:8378:9017]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d4sm8706165pfj.59.2017.08.05.12.28.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-06E90592-BA1E-4B19-8DBC-47CD366082A3 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 12:28:58 -0700 Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Job Snijders , "John G. Scudder" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , idr wg , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <999f002984de432bb168f60309d66b63@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <7DCAAFA1-1E14-4374-834B-4E6FB174ACFE@gmail.com> <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:54:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 19:29:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail-06E90592-BA1E-4B19-8DBC-47CD366082A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Thanks Acee! To comply with IDR chairs request we have removed all "suggested" code point= s (see updated drafts). Regards, Jeff > On Aug 5, 2017, at 10:48, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Hi Ketan,=20 > When I spoke to Jeff in Prague, he was not attached to the specific code p= oint, his main concern was getting early allocation for deployments requirin= g MSD advertisement. So, I think we are aligned.=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 > From: Idr on behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <= ketant@cisco.com> > Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 1:23 AM > To: Jeff Tantsura , Job Snijders , John Scudder , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > Cc: "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , IDR List , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.= org" , Stefano Previdi <= stefano@previdi.net>, Susan Hares > Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted= drafts >=20 > Hi All, > =20 > The IANA early allocation has been done for the BGP-LS SR extension drafts= now, but the other two drafts related to MSD and draft-idr-te-pm are still p= ending early allocations. May I request the authors to please request for th= e same at the earliest? > =20 > We have a collision right now between these drafts with their previously =93= suggested=94 code point values so would appreciate if this was resolved ASAP= to aid implementations. > =20 > For the record, the previously suggested values were: > =20 > TLV Type Value > -------------------------------------------------------- > 1104 (Suggested) Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > 1105 (Suggested) Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > 1106 (Suggested) Unidirectional Delay Variation > =20 > 1107 (Suggested) Unidirectional Packet Loss > =20 > 1108 (Suggested) Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth > =20 > 1109 (Suggested) Unidirectional Available Bandwidth > =20 > 1110 (Suggested) Unidirectional Bandwidth Utilization > =20 > Then from the MSD draft, we have collision > =20 > Code-point: 1110 (Suggested value - to be assigned by IANA) from BGP- > LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute > TLVs registry > =20 > Thanks, > Ketan > =20 > From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: 15 July 2017 19:48 > To: Job Snijders ; John G. Scudder ; K= etan Talaulikar (ketant) > Cc: Stefano Previdi ; Susan Hares ; d= raft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@= ietf.org; idr wg > Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted= drafts > =20 > That=92s the plan! > =20 > Cheers, > Jeff > =20 > =20 > From: Job Snijders > Date: Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 16:15 > To: Jeff Tantsura , "John G. Scudder" , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" > Cc: Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares , "= draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , idr wg > Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted= drafts > =20 > =20 > On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 at 15:35, Jeff Tantsura wrot= e: > Would you want the authors of draft-tantsura-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-m= sd to remove suggested values or wait for early allocation and replace? > =20 > =20 > The outcome of the IANA Early Allocation process is not directly connected= to self-assigning (squatting) in the current document. I would suggest the s= quatted codepoint should be removed at the earliest opportunity (Monday morn= ing). Uploading new drafts is cheap and easy after all.=20 > =20 > Kind regards, > =20 > Job --Apple-Mail-06E90592-BA1E-4B19-8DBC-47CD366082A3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Thanks Acee!

To comply with IDR c= hairs request we have removed all "suggested" code points (see updated draft= s).

Regards,
Jeff

On Aug 5, 2017, at 10:48, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Ketan, 
When I spoke to Jeff in Prague, he was not attached to the specific cod= e point, his main concern was getting early allocation for deployments requi= ring MSD advertisement. So, I think we are aligned. 
Thanks,
Acee 

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Ketan Talaulika= r (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>=
Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 1:= 23 AM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Job Snijders &= lt;job@instituut.net>, John Scud= der <jgs@juniper.net>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsber= g@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org<= /a>>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>, "draf= t-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segm= ent-routing-ext@ietf.org>, Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net&= gt;, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com&= gt;
Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code p= oints early allocation for WG adopted drafts

Hi All,

 

The IANA early allocation has been done for the BGP-LS SR extension draf= ts now, but the other two drafts related to MSD and draft-idr-te-pm are stil= l pending early allocations. May I request the authors to please request for the same at the earliest? =

 

We have a collision right now between these drafts with their previously= =E2=80=9Csuggested=E2=80=9D code point values so would appreciate if this w= as resolved ASAP to aid implementations.

 

For the record, the previously suggested values were:<= /p>

 

      TLV Type &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Value

   -----------------------------------= ---------------------

    1104 (Suggested)  Unidir= ectional Link Delay

 

    1105 (Suggested)  Min/Ma= x Unidirectional Link Delay

 

    1106 (Suggested)  Unidir= ectional Delay Variation

 

    1107 (Suggested)  Unidir= ectional Packet Loss

 

    1108 (Suggested)  Unidir= ectional Residual Bandwidth

 

    1109 (Suggested)  Unidir= ectional Available Bandwidth

 

    1110 (Suggested)  Unidir= ectional Bandwidth Utilization

 

Then from the MSD draft, we have collision

 

   Code-point: 1110 (Suggested va=
lue - to be assigned by IANA) from BGP-
   LS Node Descriptor, Link Descr=
iptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute
   TLVs registry

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:je= fftant.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 July 2017 19:48
To: Job Snijders <job@institu= ut.net>; John G. Scudder <jgs@j= uniper.net>; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: Stefano Previdi <stefan= o@previdi.net>; Susan Hares <sh= ares@ndzh.com>; draft-= ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bg= p@ietf.org; idr wg <idr@ietf.org&= gt;
Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG ad= opted drafts

 

That=E2=80=99s the plan!

 

Cheers,

Jeff

 

 

From: Job S= nijders <job@instituut.net> Date: Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 16:15
To: Jeff Tantsura <jeff= tant.ietf@gmail.com>, "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: Stefano Previdi <stefan= o@previdi.net>, Susan Hares <sh= ares@ndzh.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" <d= raft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" &= lt;draft-ietf-idr-te-pm= -bgp@ietf.org>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG ad= opted drafts

 

 

On S= at, 15 Jul 2017 at 15:35, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Wou= ld  you want the authors of draft-tantsura-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-m= sd  to remove suggested values or wait for early allocation and replace= ?

 

 

The= outcome of the IANA Early Allocation process is not directly connected to s= elf-assigning (squatting) in the current document. I would suggest the squat= ted codepoint should be removed at the earliest opportunity (Monday morning). Uploading new drafts is cheap an= d easy after all. 

 

Kin= d regards,

 

Job=

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Scudder" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr wg" , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts Thread-Index: AdL7nWosFbh13zxaTe29YgdiZl93UQB+CRWAAADnRIAAAWQjgAAAEggABAKqdHAAJNDqAAADgyMAAAh2GEA= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2017 04:34:39 +0000 Message-ID: <7197da91d81c4995bf5b7afd1b1e0902@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <999f002984de432bb168f60309d66b63@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <7DCAAFA1-1E14-4374-834B-4E6FB174ACFE@gmail.com> <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.89.88] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7197da91d81c4995bf5b7afd1b1e0902XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 06 Aug 2017 06:36:02 -0700 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--_000_7197da91d81c4995bf5b7afd1b1e0902XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Sun Aug 6 23:03:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02888127AD4 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2017 23:03:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xqy5wzgftWBF for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2017 23:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linzer.ki.iif.hu (linzer.ki.iif.hu [193.224.163.7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B667120227 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2017 23:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bolha.lvs.iif.hu (bolha.lvs.iif.hu [193.225.14.181]) by linzer.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703AD4060EF; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:03:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at bolha.lvs.iif.hu Received: from linzer.ki.iif.hu ([IPv6:::ffff:193.224.163.7]) by bolha.lvs.iif.hu (bolha.lvs.iif.hu [::ffff:193.225.14.72]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4TkZ_yUwsCg7; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:03:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:db8:21:0:221a:6ff:fe6d:1304] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f1a:308::dead:beef]) by linzer.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CF284060EC; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:03:31 +0200 (CEST) From: matecs To: Idr@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:03:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] draft-przygienda-idr-compressed-updates real life experiments X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 06:03:43 -0000 hi, i'm the author of http://freerouter.nop.hu/, and i've just finished the implementation of this draft, and as a netadmin at as1955, i've enabled it on our infra to see the results. first of all, my code puts a single prefix to an update, and immediately compresses it, which is the worst case from the compression point of view, but the numbers are still nice! 1 and 2 are from dn42.net, ~600 prefixes, resulted 30% of the original. 3 and 4 are from my lab, ~100 prefixes, resulted 20% of the original. 5 and 6 are from live internet as seen at as1955, rr1 is a subset, 2k prefixes, resulted 21% of the original. rr2 is full table, 700k prefixes, resulted 14% of the original. rr3 is not freerouter, so currently not supports compression. 7 and 8 are the detailed byte(packet) counters, connection means the bytes hit the line, uncompressed is the bytes before the compression, without the 16 bytes marker. 9 and 10 are the raw compression and decompression times. in summary, this feature taken the full table convergence time far below 1 minute in our geo-redundant rr cluster, and the implementation was fairly easy, so consider supporting it! regards, csaba mate niif/hungarnet 1) working-demo#show ipv4 bgp 1 compression as rx tx rx tx neighbor 4242428666 true true 31.9% 34.7% 172.23.43.93 4242421955 true true 24.6% 31.9% 172.23.199.100 4242428666 true true 30.0% 32.1% 172.23.43.65 4242428666 true true 22.9% 23.9% 172.23.43.66 4242428666 true true 30.0% 32.1% 172.23.43.67 4242428666 true true 30.0% 32.1% 172.23.43.68 2) working-demo#show ipv6 bgp 1 compression as rx tx rx tx neighbor 4242421955 true true 22.9% 17.5% fd40:bad:dead:babe::4 4242428666 true true 18.0% 18.0% fd40:2343:64:fa52::1 4242428666 true true 27.0% 28.5% fd40:2343:64:fa52::ccc:1 4242428666 true true 21.3% 21.4% fd40:2343:64:fa52::ccc:2 4242428666 true true 27.0% 28.5% fd40:2343:64:fa52::ccc:4 working-demo# 3) safe-rr#show ipv4 bgp 65535 compression as rx tx rx tx neighbor 65535 true true 88.8% 22.9% 10.1.252.252 65535 true true 88.8% 22.8% 10.1.252.253 65535 true true 88.3% 22.9% 10.1.252.254 65535 true true 88.8% 22.8% 10.1.252.255 65535 true true 89.2% 22.9% 10.4.4.254 65535 true true 69.7% 22.8% 10.10.10.12 65535 false false ??% ??% 10.10.10.16 65535 true true 89.6% 22.7% 10.10.10.88 65535 false false ??% ??% 10.10.10.220 65535 true true 81.0% 22.8% 10.10.10.221 65535 true true 88.1% 22.7% 10.10.10.222 65535 true true 76.2% 22.7% 10.10.10.224 65535 true true 62.9% 22.8% 10.10.10.225 65535 true true 54.3% 22.7% 10.10.10.226 65535 false false ??% ??% 10.10.10.227 4) safe-rr#show ipv6 bgp 65535 compression as rx tx rx tx neighbor 65535 true true 50.6% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::12 65535 false false ??% ??% 2001:db8:1101::16 65535 true true 66.9% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::88 65535 true true 67.1% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::4254 65535 false false ??% ??% 2001:db8:1101::220:220 65535 true true 61.4% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::221:221 65535 true true 66.4% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::222:222 65535 true true 61.8% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::224:224 65535 true true 51.7% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::225:225 65535 true true 49.0% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::226:226 65535 false false ??% ??% 2001:db8:1101::227:227 65535 true true 67.6% 16.9% 2001:db8:1101::252:252 65535 true true 67.2% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::252:253 65535 true true 67.2% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::252:254 65535 true true 66.9% 17.0% 2001:db8:1101::252:255 safe-rr# 5) kaputt.debrecen3#show ipv4 bgp 1955 compression as rx tx rx tx neighbor 1955 true true 21.6% 110.3% 1955 true true 13.1% 110.3% 1955 true false ??% ??% 6) kaputt.debrecen3#show ipv6 bgp 1955 compression as rx tx rx tx neighbor 1955 true true 21.3% 55.0% 1955 true true 14.1% 90.7% 1955 true false ??% ??% kaputt.debrecen3# 7) kaputt.debrecen3#show ipv4 bgp 1955 neighbor status | begin conn connection = tx=266(12) rx=12240655(707665) drp=0(0) uncompressed = tx=241(4) rx=93246779(707657) drp=0(0) buffer = max=1024000 rx=0 tx=1024000 8) kaputt.debrecen3#show ipv6 bgp 1955 neighbor status | begin conn connection = tx=127(11) rx=772121(41130) drp=0(0) uncompressed = tx=140(2) rx=5445920(41121) drp=0(0) buffer = max=256000 rx=0 tx=256000 kaputt.debrecen3# 9) mc36@kaputt:~$ time zip zzz /data/bmp.mrt adding: data/bmp.mrt zip warning: file size changed while zipping /data/bmp.mrt (deflated 80%) real 0m8.248s user 0m7.329s sys 0m0.124s mc36@kaputt:~$ 10) mc36@kaputt:~$ time unzip zzz Archive: zzz.zip inflating: data/bmp.mrt real 0m1.790s user 0m1.428s sys 0m0.208s mc36@kaputt:~$ From nobody Mon Aug 7 04:47:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE28913218F; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 01:51:48 -0700 (PDT) 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 07 Aug 2017 08:51:45 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-005.cisco.com (xch-rtp-005.cisco.com [64.101.220.145]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v778pj3e025037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:51:45 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-005.cisco.com (64.101.220.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 04:51:44 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 04:51:44 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Jeff Tantsura CC: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Job Snijders , "John G. Scudder" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , idr wg , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts Thread-Index: AQHS/Wu4R42l+m/P+k6DdauFh9qsFA== Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:51:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <999f002984de432bb168f60309d66b63@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <7DCAAFA1-1E14-4374-834B-4E6FB174ACFE@gmail.com> <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.199] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5ADA213BFE53aceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 04:46:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:18:49 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Optimal Route Reflection (BGP-ORR) Authors : Robert Raszuk Christian Cassar Erik Aman Bruno Decraene Kevin Wang Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2017-08-11 Abstract: This document proposes a solution for BGP route reflectors to allow them to choose the best path their clients would have chosen under the same conditions, without requiring further state or any new features to be placed on the clients. This facilitates, for example, best exit point policy (hot potato routing). This solution is primarily applicable in deployments using centralized route reflectors. The solution relies upon all route reflectors learning all paths which are eligible for consideration. Best path selection is performed in each route reflector based on a configured virtual location in the IGP. The location can be the same for all clients or different per peer/update group or per peer. Best path selection can also be performed based on user configured policies in each route reflector. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Aug 13 22:04:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDAE0124E15; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 22:03:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9XyuKo01LTYP; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 22:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EC5F1241F5; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 22:03:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=25190; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1502687035; x=1503896635; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=uC+UmUkoWZFQ+ijuZ6m1expM+CD3LPa4BHSgzKX7SuU=; b=TADQIaSooiDnvCk6W0e/CFUgz4juvbQirtv6HqzAY5ec6OIrEFeb6WSA CDat8nsCsxLbeCHKuys0W0u9OqixQtSWvv/tAmuHBmwQEqOvxeUO5eS3Q a4PqV5XEAT6I5v2Jz59/MsMOKJRFa09Y6iZ+Ms0yeAcCzoObrCXRSTiTG o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CmAAA1LpFZ/5RdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm9rZIEUB44KkAyBbneHQI1hDoIELIUbAhqEXT8YAQIBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BayiFGAEBAQEDIwpMEAIBCBEDAQEBKAMCAgIfERQJCAIEAQ0FCIlDTAMVEKtJg?= =?us-ascii?q?iYnhwcNhCEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYMoggKBTIFjgnM0gleCBC8?= =?us-ascii?q?JFoJdgmEFiXmOFIdoPAKHUYd0hGyCGIVdimmMMoliAR84gQp3FYVgHIFndohTg?= =?us-ascii?q?Q8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,372,1498521600"; d="scan'208,217";a="271868684" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Aug 2017 05:03:54 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7E53rSe030332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Aug 2017 05:03:54 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 00:03:53 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 00:03:53 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Jeff Tantsura , Job Snijders , "John G. Scudder" CC: Stefano Previdi , Susan Hares , "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr wg" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts Thread-Index: AdL7nWosFbh13zxaTe29YgdiZl93UQB+CRWAAADnRIAAAWQjgAAAEggABAKqdHABxCZKYA== Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 05:03:53 +0000 Message-ID: <5ddccfb5e75f47d39676b90a3f5364c5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <999f002984de432bb168f60309d66b63@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <7DCAAFA1-1E14-4374-834B-4E6FB174ACFE@gmail.com> <37805F15-E265-4C37-B491-2BCBABD29D2D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.92.68] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5ddccfb5e75f47d39676b90a3f5364c5XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Regd BGP-LS code points early allocation for WG adopted drafts X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 05:03:58 -0000 --_000_5ddccfb5e75f47d39676b90a3f5364c5XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V0cgQ2hhaXJzIOKAkw0KDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBub3QgYWxyZWFkeSBkb25lIHNvIHBsZWFzZSBp bml0aWF0ZSBlYXJseSBhbGxvY2F0aW9uIG9mIGNvZGUgcG9pbnRzIGZvciBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0 cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlkci10ZS1wbS1iZ3AvDQpUaGFueC4NCg0K ICAgTGVzDQoNCg0KRnJvbTogS2V0YW4gVGFsYXVsaWthciAoa2V0YW50KQ0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5 LCBBdWd1c3QgMDQsIDIwMTcgMTA6MjQgUE0NClRvOiBKZWZmIFRhbnRzdXJhOyBKb2IgU25pamRl cnM7IEpvaG4gRy4gU2N1ZGRlcjsgTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIChnaW5zYmVyZykNCkNjOiBTdGVmYW5v IFByZXZpZGk7IFN1c2FuIEhhcmVzOyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlkci1iZ3AtbHMtc2VnbWVudC1yb3V0 aW5nLWV4dEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pZHItdGUtcG0tYmdwQGlldGYub3JnOyBpZHIg 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PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0 bWw+DQo= --_000_5ddccfb5e75f47d39676b90a3f5364c5XCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Aug 15 12:02:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5664313234C; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:02:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150282373730.21016.16356390755818542112@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:02:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-22.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:02:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Extended Message support for BGP Authors : Randy Bush Keyur Patel Dave Ward Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-22.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2017-08-15 Abstract: The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096 octets. As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets. This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN message. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-22 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-22 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-22 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Aug 15 12:05:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E51E132359 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:05:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1gxOr2rZdlJJ for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44BA4126BF3 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dhh9P-000655-RM for idr@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:05:16 +0000 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Interminable Discussion Room In-Reply-To: <150282373730.21016.16356390755818542112@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150282373730.21016.16356390755818542112@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/24.5 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-22.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:05:18 -0000 the change is to allow all message types, except OPEN, to be extended. allowing OPEN to be extended is though to be unnecessarily comnples. randy From nobody Fri Aug 18 22:17:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F45132454; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:17:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150311985439.5980.5049446568752147803@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:17:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-08.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 05:17:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering Performance Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Qin Wu Hannes Gredler Saikat Ray Jeff Tantsura Clarence Filsfils Filename : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-08.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2017-08-18 Abstract: This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 23 00:29:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415D6132055; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 00:28:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150347333723.19475.8953645314203038550@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 00:28:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-12.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:28:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Inter-domain Traffic Conditioning Agreement (TCA) Exchange Attribute Authors : Shitanshu Shah Keyur Patel Sandeep Bajaj Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-12.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2017-08-23 Abstract: Network administrators typically enforce Quality of Service (QoS) policies according to Traffic Conditioning Agreement (TCA) with their providers. The enforcement of such policies often relies upon vendor-specific configuration language. Both learning of TCA, either thru TCA documents or via some other out-of-band method, and translating them to vendor specific configuration language is a complex, often manual, process and prone to errors. This document specifies an optional transitive attribute to signal TCA parameters in-band, across administrative boundaries (considered as Autonomous Systems (AS)), thus simplifying and facilitating some of the complex provisioning tasks in situations where BGP is available as a routing protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-sla-exchange-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 24 07:00:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6904F1326F4 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Js3yGvF12ITn for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 3.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (3.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.58.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B52B132518 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from player770.ha.ovh.net (b6.ovh.net [213.186.33.56]) by mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044D7A9643 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:00:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from matthieu-laptop-2.home (LFbn-1-12338-186.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.91.142.186]) (Authenticated sender: matthieu@texier.tv) by player770.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6FBCC3C007E; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:00:27 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Matthieu Texier In-Reply-To: <36E285C0-C716-437A-806D-A453273146DD@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:00:27 +0200 Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4CD58B23-6137-4604-968C-83A2F218FF79@texier.tv> References: <36E285C0-C716-437A-806D-A453273146DD@juniper.net> To: "John G. Scudder" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 15851826266559826646 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeelledrtdeggdejfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-hr-idr-rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:00:35 -0000 Hi John and All, I would like to apologise re-opening this quite old mail thread but as I = am working on a development, I am questioning myself on a very specific = aspect of flowspec filtering. I would like to discuss nlri filtering type 12 - Fragment. This = discussion is valid for both the existing RFC and this proposed draft. In all filtering nlri that requires bitmask (tcp flags, DSCP), the RFC = 5575 is defining the encoding of the nlri value as the exact same way as = it is encoded in the IP header itself.=20 For the bitmask type 12, the RFC rather propose to use =E2=80=9Cpre-define= d=E2=80=9D values like IsF, FF, DF, LF. There are two observations I would like to highlight: 1) This approach creates a sort of inconsistency between filters: I tend = to believe that the approach of Flowspec filters was to filter according = to a header pattern (just like with DSCP and TCP flags flowspec nlri). = If we follow the same approach for fragments, we should normally propose = a nlri value made of the fragment flags (3 bits) and eventually 1 bit to = specify if fragment offset have to null or not. 2) The bitmask of nlri type 12 as define could create odd router = behavior or misalignment between implementations: Assuming that routers identifies the first fragment by checking that MF = bit is set to 1 and that the offset set to 0. How a router could = consider a nlri with a bitmask having Isf and FF set to one ? Does it = have to do an implicit OR between the Isf and FF ? Considering my first observation and following the same logic as with = DSCP and TCP flags, if I want to filter packets that are fragments or = first fragments, I should normally send two values with an explicit OR = operator between the two.=20 It might be implemented that way in certain OS but I am afraid that RFC = is not perfectly clear on this particular situation. Does it make sense to other people of the group or it is only me = torturing myself ? Thanks, Matthieu. > On 21 Jan 2017, at 16:03, John G. Scudder wrote: >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > The authors have requested IDR working group adoption of = draft-hr-idr-rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules". = Please send your comments to the list. >=20 > This adoption call will conclude on Monday, February 6. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > =E2=80=94John > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Thu Aug 24 07:26:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8517F132940 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:26:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yblAGUI-FlbU for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1973132351 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id p30so6746425wmi.0 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=SvvzcHv6go61ItFtvSjsa6DpJn5p9KR1kWsdJS+lBWQ=; b=URr1dj5Ejv66jLxgvojfN6qZJqckYHKO4sY9WTNenM46jUeNm8reeGX6PGTOzNF8Dw EyFnvCv7UjQsTM6igbYwtGlBskehNaBryWl0WaFmRp6EzeaGxUjZP00IV3oDmGMmhSYL 2WDYyAo1uNeJIU4xJzwqe1D1dBAmUkKrgl7jrSK2L5AhrI58w0rDpIF1RcmqaTcHAtmk dlMG5F4eIRO2LmtI7giZxWj7Yif/ALKRM9botqj9EHD0bTchq6biRTnJW8yGB6TUfemq n8JarcAEqxJPsjmMFfw0fiX4Yf7buTeRgkbIN4QbjXjv1myNQ1ad06cCV9oPx8ohnONo RshA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SvvzcHv6go61ItFtvSjsa6DpJn5p9KR1kWsdJS+lBWQ=; b=uIjAOrvt1dHQdP3BAoNqjWKN06ZhJXF52nQSDQYB9iW4fnpc7u4iYkDlhbyuvo3Fys cEHO5p4JhtYW1PhlqHadK9u5QtnNPcnqq4e5Y+bkRnUFzQmrpjNvhiwHEiXtu/aQQ9kU sP5KizvOXoqpF7ZXts9U9RZrSdFLLlMod9TzQ8hzKJq1NsTitmtK+8scQTJqbNRLN3BX IrhVXkKouYwp/WhIl3BvSn3d5WGp/Dn0qjjSSVs1DbnGnIZ6rxoiKis8hYnFd3+5US6E kI09RB7iUxyY4bATqefMjk+MaP9jw0EpEMKbHq8R8TpSszrqNhZn1VFV8n3HTOk/3VqX U84g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hDN7SmuOTZTXSBJsJcW5NBzj9awbj1pHgBi5/H+EL74Nh1aUvY ipLmH/N1K9G8OzgXKc5TYfVJEBRhsTWn1sA= X-Received: by 10.28.216.84 with SMTP id p81mr3576384wmg.32.1503584770285; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:26:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.210.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:26:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4CD58B23-6137-4604-968C-83A2F218FF79@texier.tv> References: <36E285C0-C716-437A-806D-A453273146DD@juniper.net> <4CD58B23-6137-4604-968C-83A2F218FF79@texier.tv> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:26:09 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: KTLxfqlHpSPFcP-54Zsg5Vz-Ldk Message-ID: To: Matthieu Texier Cc: "John G. Scudder" , idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11470e481f67f40557809c6d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-hr-idr-rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:26:14 -0000 --001a11470e481f67f40557809c6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Matthieu, IMO the RFC is quite clear that "A specific packet is considered to match the flow specification when it matches the intersection (AND) of all the components present in the specification." That effectively means to me that to match packets which will be last fragment or first fragment one would need to inject two separate NLRIs. At this is guarantee to work. Making assumption that implementation does OR among type 12 bitmask values would actually remove ability to match on broken packets on the wire which may actually have messed up IP headers and both bits set in the respect of fragmentation - don't you think ? Kind regards, R. On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Matthieu Texier wrote= : > Hi John and All, > > I would like to apologise re-opening this quite old mail thread but as I > am working on a development, I am questioning myself on a very specific > aspect of flowspec filtering. > > I would like to discuss nlri filtering type 12 - Fragment. This discussio= n > is valid for both the existing RFC and this proposed draft. > > In all filtering nlri that requires bitmask (tcp flags, DSCP), the RFC > 5575 is defining the encoding of the nlri value as the exact same way as = it > is encoded in the IP header itself. > > For the bitmask type 12, the RFC rather propose to use =E2=80=9Cpre-defin= ed=E2=80=9D > values like IsF, FF, DF, LF. > > There are two observations I would like to highlight: > > 1) This approach creates a sort of inconsistency between filters: I tend > to believe that the approach of Flowspec filters was to filter according = to > a header pattern (just like with DSCP and TCP flags flowspec nlri). If we > follow the same approach for fragments, we should normally propose a nlri > value made of the fragment flags (3 bits) and eventually 1 bit to specify > if fragment offset have to null or not. > > 2) The bitmask of nlri type 12 as define could create odd router behavior > or misalignment between implementations: > > Assuming that routers identifies the first fragment by checking that MF > bit is set to 1 and that the offset set to 0. How a router could consider= a > nlri with a bitmask having Isf and FF set to one ? Does it have to do an > implicit OR between the Isf and FF ? > > Considering my first observation and following the same logic as with DSC= P > and TCP flags, if I want to filter packets that are fragments or first > fragments, I should normally send two values with an explicit OR operator > between the two. > > It might be implemented that way in certain OS but I am afraid that RFC i= s > not perfectly clear on this particular situation. > > Does it make sense to other people of the group or it is only me torturin= g > myself ? > > Thanks, > Matthieu. > > > > > > On 21 Jan 2017, at 16:03, John G. Scudder wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > The authors have requested IDR working group adoption of > draft-hr-idr-rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules". > Please send your comments to the list. > > > > This adoption call will conclude on Monday, February 6. > > > > Thanks, > > > > =E2=80=94John > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a11470e481f67f40557809c6d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Matthieu,
IMO the RFC is quite clear that "A specific= packet is considered to match the flow specification when it matches the i= ntersection (AND) of all the components present in the specification."= =C2=A0

That effectivel= y means to me that to match packets which will be last fragment or first fr= agment one would need to inject two separate NLRIs. At this is guarantee to= work.=C2=A0

Making as= sumption that implementation does OR among type 12 bitmask values would act= ually remove ability to match on broken packets on the wire which may actua= lly have messed up IP headers and both bits set in the respect of fragmenta= tion - don't you think ?=C2=A0

Kind regards,
R.


On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Matthieu Texier <<= a href=3D"mailto:matthieu@texier.tv" target=3D"_blank">matthieu@texier.tv> wrote:
Hi John and All,

I would like to apologise re-opening this quite old mail thread but as I am= working on a development, I am questioning myself on a very specific aspec= t of flowspec filtering.

I would like to discuss nlri filtering type 12 - Fragment. This discussion = is valid for both the existing RFC and this proposed draft.

In all filtering nlri that requires bitmask (tcp flags, DSCP), the RFC 5575= is defining the encoding of the nlri value as the exact same way as it is = encoded in the IP header itself.

For the bitmask type 12, the RFC rather propose to use =E2=80=9Cpre-defined= =E2=80=9D values like IsF, FF, DF, LF.

There are two observations I would like to highlight:

1) This approach creates a sort of inconsistency between filters: I tend to= believe that the approach of Flowspec filters was to filter according to a= header pattern (just like with DSCP and TCP flags flowspec nlri). If we fo= llow the same approach for fragments, we should normally propose a nlri val= ue made of the fragment flags (3 bits) and eventually 1 bit to specify if f= ragment offset have to null or not.

2) The bitmask of nlri type 12 as define could create odd router behavior o= r misalignment between implementations:

Assuming that routers identifies the first fragment by checking that MF bit= is set to 1 and that the offset set to 0. How a router could consider a nl= ri with a bitmask having Isf and FF set to one ? Does it have to do an impl= icit OR between the Isf and FF ?

Considering my first observation and following the same logic as with DSCP = and TCP flags, if I want to filter packets that are fragments or first frag= ments, I should normally send two values with an explicit OR operator betwe= en the two.

It might be implemented that way in certain OS but I am afraid that RFC is = not perfectly clear on this particular situation.

Does it make sense to other people of the group or it is only me torturing = myself ?

Thanks,
Matthieu.




> On 21 Jan 2017, at 16:03, John G. Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> The authors have requested IDR working group adoption of draft-hr-idr-= rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules". Please= send your comments to the list.
>
> This adoption call will conclude on Monday, February 6.
>
> Thanks,
>
> =E2=80=94John
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--001a11470e481f67f40557809c6d-- From nobody Thu Aug 24 08:14:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5141132BD0 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQM8ScCJZkyh for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 08:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (1.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.63.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99572132BCE for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 08:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from player770.ha.ovh.net (b6.ovh.net [213.186.33.56]) by mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2CFA96BA for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:14:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from matthieu-laptop-2.home (LFbn-1-12338-186.w90-91.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.91.142.186]) (Authenticated sender: matthieu@texier.tv) by player770.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A0023C0072; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:14:45 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Matthieu Texier In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:14:44 +0200 Cc: "John G. Scudder" , idr wg Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <36E285C0-C716-437A-806D-A453273146DD@juniper.net> <4CD58B23-6137-4604-968C-83A2F218FF79@texier.tv> To: Robert Raszuk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 17106923184959605379 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -100 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeelledrtdeggdekjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG adoption call for draft-hr-idr-rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:14:55 -0000 Hi Robert, Thanks for your prompt reply: yes makes sense. I tend to believe that for this particular type 12 fragment nlri, it = could make sense, from an implementation point of view, to allow only = certain combinations that doesn=E2=80=99t exclude each other. Thanks for helping me to come to a conclusion on this ! Matthieu. > On 24 Aug 2017, at 16:26, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > Hi Matthieu, >=20 > IMO the RFC is quite clear that "A specific packet is considered to = match the flow specification when it matches the intersection (AND) of = all the components present in the specification."=20 >=20 > That effectively means to me that to match packets which will be last = fragment or first fragment one would need to inject two separate NLRIs. = At this is guarantee to work.=20 >=20 > Making assumption that implementation does OR among type 12 bitmask = values would actually remove ability to match on broken packets on the = wire which may actually have messed up IP headers and both bits set in = the respect of fragmentation - don't you think ?=20 >=20 > Kind regards, > R. >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Matthieu Texier = wrote: > Hi John and All, >=20 > I would like to apologise re-opening this quite old mail thread but as = I am working on a development, I am questioning myself on a very = specific aspect of flowspec filtering. >=20 > I would like to discuss nlri filtering type 12 - Fragment. This = discussion is valid for both the existing RFC and this proposed draft. >=20 > In all filtering nlri that requires bitmask (tcp flags, DSCP), the RFC = 5575 is defining the encoding of the nlri value as the exact same way as = it is encoded in the IP header itself. >=20 > For the bitmask type 12, the RFC rather propose to use = =E2=80=9Cpre-defined=E2=80=9D values like IsF, FF, DF, LF. >=20 > There are two observations I would like to highlight: >=20 > 1) This approach creates a sort of inconsistency between filters: I = tend to believe that the approach of Flowspec filters was to filter = according to a header pattern (just like with DSCP and TCP flags = flowspec nlri). If we follow the same approach for fragments, we should = normally propose a nlri value made of the fragment flags (3 bits) and = eventually 1 bit to specify if fragment offset have to null or not. >=20 > 2) The bitmask of nlri type 12 as define could create odd router = behavior or misalignment between implementations: >=20 > Assuming that routers identifies the first fragment by checking that = MF bit is set to 1 and that the offset set to 0. How a router could = consider a nlri with a bitmask having Isf and FF set to one ? Does it = have to do an implicit OR between the Isf and FF ? >=20 > Considering my first observation and following the same logic as with = DSCP and TCP flags, if I want to filter packets that are fragments or = first fragments, I should normally send two values with an explicit OR = operator between the two. >=20 > It might be implemented that way in certain OS but I am afraid that = RFC is not perfectly clear on this particular situation. >=20 > Does it make sense to other people of the group or it is only me = torturing myself ? >=20 > Thanks, > Matthieu. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On 21 Jan 2017, at 16:03, John G. Scudder wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > The authors have requested IDR working group adoption of = draft-hr-idr-rfc5575bis-02 "Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules". = Please send your comments to the list. > > > > This adoption call will conclude on Monday, February 6. > > > > Thanks, > > > > =E2=80=94John > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 From nobody Wed Aug 30 07:33:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9716513219E; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 07:32:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150410357959.21521.4548365202733545024@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 07:32:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:32:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Flowspec Indirection-id Redirect Authors : Gunter Van de Velde Keyur Patel Zhenbin Li Filename : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2017-08-30 Abstract: This document defines a new extended community known as flowspec redirect-to-indirection-id. This extended community triggers advanced redirection capabilities to flowspec clients. When activated, this flowspec extended community is used by a flowspec client to find the correct next-hop information within a localised indirection-id mapping table. The functionality detailed in this document allows a network controller to decouple the BGP flowspec redirection instruction from the actual redirection path selected. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/