From nobody Mon Oct 2 17:08:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA7A1342D0 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hslAxGsYrmOP for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 17:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-f70.google.com (mail-pg0-f70.google.com [74.125.83.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AE0A132D8A for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 17:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-f70.google.com with SMTP id u136so2612289pgc.8 for ; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 17:08:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=19dkgfDIdSyic2z1Oz9Z8l+PiUrEB440yHo+1hZ9Ei8=; b=EDHfpshz9KXwVGHGJ5yZ/QZxRPAA4Td8hRVOewtXq2vs/YDfjFT5KvJqDLYuCwQNaw +xEKVYQ5apPqboL+dgpDWpiewPs/CWWsqZZHG3TPRVZt17SpBduQ3kzc0jYLZd9RpDWF V67GghknMzJhoLzX53fFDKqXTPcdtkTXF33zgpKsd/7O7X1sQ8H4YGcygrKZufodVxio P10oOdKhywZfKkz3Yyg3m1mDYSP/dsKaljm2GcOAOtUY+P44m3L1wAT0lxRGoHEQzvW1 5VoaArwPcLSKiZINx702VUokvIW8tAe1z/Ax8bK9ljLi7gX+AnGTHn2mtqgJDPESB3Xh 6lXA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWicaJ9ug+a7zRYBPTX19UFy4KQmah6Bkb0k1n/qJXalzlS+2Yv PcAsjKVWappi4tHJGNz1zOke959QfQQ+sKeuAITV+rnPfYD4Eai8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDmMR3ri1S1YPdxtIC/uZ8PHYgPPM8scWuAQ+j8A5JqMpejfEqlIf6Fga1dtE8XDY3xTEZ2yWrC4oidLL/FLpPunHYJ75Rm2g== X-Received: by 10.36.111.144 with SMTP id x138mr8353093itb.23.1506989311769; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 17:08:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.244.22 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 22:45:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:15:47 +0530 Message-ID: From: Nandan Saha To: stefano previdi Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045dbe243547e8055a61a7dc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 00:08:34 -0000 --f403045dbe243547e8055a61a7dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello again, I had a couple of further questions / clarifications. 1. Binding SID Sub tlv encoding: Please confirm that the BSID Sub-tlv with length =3D 6 (4 octet SID) contains the MPLS label in the lower 20 bits. Btw, is a Binding SID always a full label and never an index? It's not mentioned so explicitly in draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01 2. How to treat received weight sub-tlv with weight=3D0 ? If we plug weight =3D 0 in the formula in section 7.1 of the SR TE draft, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01= #section-7.1, then we end up with 0/Sw, so the segment list won't get any traffic (essentially the segment list isn't present). To me a weight =3D 0 seems useless and if we allow it we will get into some strange corner cases, like if the policy has only one segment list, but its weight is 0, should it then be treated as an unacceptable policy and treat-as-withdraw? It would be simpler to either limit the weight to be > 0 and if 0 is received treat it as if no weight was received. Does that make sense? Any thoughts on this? Thanks, Nandan On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Nandan Saha wrote: > Thank you Stefano for clarifying. > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:12 PM, stefano previdi > wrote: > >> Hi Nandan, >> >> sorry for being late. See below. >> >> >> > On Jul 3, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Nandan Saha wrote: >> > >> > Hello! >> > >> > I have some questions on the NLRI encoding. >> > 1. Can the value of NLRI length be less than 96 for IPv4 AFI and less >> > than 192 for IPv6 AFI? IOW, can it be less than full mask length for >> > the end point address? >> >> no. >> >> >> > 2. If the answer to (1) is "yes", then what is the rationale for >> > keeping the end point address field of the NLRI fixed length? (4 or 16 >> > bytes depending on AFI). Should the end point become variable length >> > like the NLRI encoding defined in RFC4760? >> > 3. If the answer to (1) is "no", how are summary addresses to be >> represented? >> >> >> there=E2=80=99s no such concept of =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D for= the endpoint encoding. >> The draft is going to be updated and the term =E2=80=9Csummary address= =E2=80=9D will be >> removed from the endpoint filed description. Sorry for the confusiuon. >> >> >> > Another question which is unrelated to the changes in version 7 of the >> draft. >> > Section "4.2.1. Acceptance of an SR Policy NLRI" says >> > " If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supporting >> > this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be >> > malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of [RFC7606] >> > " >> > It's not clear to me how a receiver can extract a valid route from a >> > malformed NLRI. >> >> >> you just have to check the nlri length. >> >> >> > The "treat-as-withdraw" can be applied if the NLRI is >> > well formed but some other attributes are malformed, which seems to be >> > implied by the following line at the end of the subsection >> > "A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST >> > trigger a reset of the BGP session.=E2=80=9D >> >> >> that is correct. >> >> s. >> >> >> > >> > Thank you! >> > Best regards, >> > Nandan >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:30 AM, wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF. >> >> >> >> Title : Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP >> >> Authors : Stefano Previdi >> >> Clarence Filsfils >> >> Paul Mattes >> >> Eric Rosen >> >> Steven Lin >> >> Filename : draft-previdi-idr-segment-rout >> ing-te-policy-07.txt >> >> Pages : 30 >> >> Date : 2017-06-23 >> >> >> >> Abstract: >> >> This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI in order to >> >> advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy (SR Policy). >> >> An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of one or more >> >> segment lists. The headend of an SR Policy may learn multiple >> >> candidate paths for an SR Policy. Candidate paths may be learned v= ia >> >> a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, PCEP, or BGP. >> >> This document specifies the way in which BGP may be used to >> >> distribute candidate paths. New sub-TLVs for the Tunnel >> >> Encapsulation Attribute are defined. >> >> >> >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-idr-segment-r >> outing-te-policy/ >> >> >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routin >> g-te-policy-07 >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-previdi-idr-segm >> ent-routing-te-policy-07 >> >> >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-idr-segment- >> routing-te-policy-07 >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Idr mailing list >> >> Idr@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Idr mailing list >> > Idr@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> > --f403045dbe243547e8055a61a7dc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello again,
=C2=A0I had a couple of further questions= / clarifications.
1. Binding SID Sub tlv encoding:
=C2= =A0Please confirm that the BSID Sub-tlv with length =3D 6 (4 octet SID) con= tains the MPLS label in the lower 20 bits.
Btw, is a Binding = SID always a full label and never an index? It's not mentioned so expli= citly in=C2=A0draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01
2. How to treat received weight sub-tlv with weight=3D0 ?
=
If we plug weight =3D 0 in the formula in section 7.1 of the SR TE dra= ft, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spr= ing-segment-routing-policy-01#section-7.1, then we end up with 0/Sw, so= the segment list won't get any traffic (essentially the segment list i= sn't present).=C2=A0
To me a weight =3D 0 seems useless and i= f we allow it we will get into some strange corner cases, like if the polic= y has only one segment list, but its weight is 0, should it then be treated= as an unacceptable policy and treat-as-withdraw?
It would be= simpler to either limit the weight to be > 0 and if 0 is received treat= it as if no weight was received. Does that make sense?
Any thoug= hts on this?

Thanks,
Nandan
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Wed, Jul 19, 20= 17 at 1:01 PM, Nandan Saha <nandan@arista.com> wrote:
Thank you Stefano for clarifyi= ng.=C2=A0

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:12 PM, stef= ano previdi <stefano@previdi.net> wrote:
Hi Nandan,

sorry for being late. See below.


> On Jul 3, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Nandan Saha <nandan@arista.com> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have some questions on the NLRI encoding.
> 1. Can the value of NLRI length be less than 96 for IPv4 AFI and less<= br> > than 192 for IPv6 AFI? IOW, can it be less than full mask length for > the end point address?

no.


> 2. If the answer to (1) is "yes", then what is the rationale= for
> keeping the end point address field of the NLRI fixed length? (4 or 16=
> bytes depending on AFI). Should the end point become variable length > like the NLRI encoding defined in RFC4760?
> 3. If the answer to (1) is "no", how are summary addresses t= o be represented?


there=E2=80=99s no such concept of =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D= for the endpoint encoding. The draft is going to be updated and the term = =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D will be removed from the endpoint filed d= escription. Sorry for the confusiuon.


> Another question which is unrelated to the changes in version 7 of the= draft.
> Section "4.2.1. Acceptance of an SR Policy NLRI" says
> " If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supportin= g
> this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be
> malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of= [RFC7606]
> "
> It's not clear to me how a receiver can extract a valid route from= a
> malformed NLRI.


you just have to check the nlri length.


> The "treat-as-withdraw" can be applied if the NLRI is
> well formed but some other attributes are malformed, which seems to be=
> implied by the following line at the end of the subsection
> "A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion= MUST
> trigger a reset of the BGP session.=E2=80=9D


that is correct.

s.


>
> Thank you!
> Best regards,
> Nandan
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:30 AM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts= directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.=
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0: Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0: Stefano Previdi
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarence Filsfils
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Paul Mattes
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Eric Rosen
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Steven Lin
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : d= raft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0: 30
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 : 2017-06-23
>>
>> Abstract:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI i= n order to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy= (SR Policy).
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of= one or more
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0segment lists.=C2=A0 The headend of an SR Policy may l= earn multiple
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0candidate paths for an SR Policy.=C2=A0 Candidate path= s may be learned via
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, = PCEP, or BGP.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document specifies the way in which BGP may be us= ed to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribute candidate paths.=C2=A0 New sub-TLVs for the= Tunnel
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Encapsulation Attribute are defined.
>>
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy/
>>
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07
>> https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-= te-policy-07
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://w= ww.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-p= olicy-07
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr=
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



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I think that means = the TBD code points listed in section 8.3, the Preference, Binding SID, = and Segment List sub-TLVs, since all the rest have been properly = allocated by IANA already. The draft appears to fulfill the requirements = for early allocation, with one possible exception. RFC 7120 says=20 c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. On the face of it the current version of the spec fulfills this = requirement. I'm slightly concerned that up through = draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-02, there were specific = values given for=20 o new sub-TLVs in the registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute sub-TLVs": Suggested Description Reference Value ----------------------------------------------------- 6 Preference sub-TLV This document 7 Binding SID sub-TLV This document 8 Segment List sub-TLV This document These values conflict with values allocated for other uses in the IANA = registry. This was corrected quite some time ago, in -03 published = December of 2016, which lists the values as "TBD" just as the current = version does, so maybe there's no problem at all.=20 I presume that if we proceed forward with early allocation, any = pre-standard implementations will be updated to use whatever values IANA = actually allocates -- which are sure not to be 6, 7 or 8 since those are = already in use. If that's so, then fine. If not, then we may need to = have a discussion about whether we really meet the "stability" = requirement. This begins a one-week period for discussion of the early allocation, = which time period may be extended if conversation warrants it. For = completeness, here's my evaluation of the full list of RFC 7120 = criteria: a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, requests for early assignment of code points from a "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the specification will be published as an RFC. Yes. b. The format, semantics, processing, and other rules related to handling the protocol entities defined by the code points (henceforth called "specifications") must be adequately described in an Internet-Draft. Yes. c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. Tentatively yes but see above. d. The Working Group chairs and Area Directors (ADs) judge that there is sufficient interest in the community for early (pre-RFC) implementation and deployment, or that failure to make an early allocation might lead to contention for the code point in the field. Yes. Thanks, --John= From nobody Tue Oct 3 20:51:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E189D126B71; Tue, 3 Oct 2017 20:51:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150708909486.24110.12316823687796658100@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 20:51:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 03:51:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Distribution of TRILL Link-State using BGP Authors : Donald E. Eastlake Weiguo Hao Susan K. Hares Sujay Gupta Muhammad Durrani Yizhou Li Filename : draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-10-03 Abstract: This draft describes a TRILL link state and MAC address reachability information distribution mechanism using a BGP LS extension. External components such as an SDN Controller can use the information for topology visibility, troubleshooting, network automation, and the like. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Oct 5 22:26:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602CD129A89 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:26:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ePjLCrOLKyIC for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29DE3124B18 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:26:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=14080; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507267563; x=1508477163; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=Eg0gPIavqcZSFkMWIVrZTFEzMWyzykRFLWlYJJRdix8=; b=lIvbXnsbV29h29jMkGAflwyyW09VuDV8q420gt9hR6xovJTq4DiAT1Wp VoBMd5glziQdvS4mhIHiHjEs+jb3yd60v7Cei15at31c+cifs9MNDWLi9 aE3VupufRiqmw5xXRNZ+CG8ujLXWqDLjXELz0bndUCfTdMhDDY7tf+nFk Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CnAAAUE9dZ/4YNJK1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm9uZG4nB44Sj2aBdpBwhT+CEgolhRYChBs/GAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRgBAQEBAy1cAgEIDgMEAQEoBzIUCQgBAQQBEgiJRGQQqFaLLQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgy2CAoFRgWqDKYMyggiFPgWhMwKHXIx+gh2Fb4sHlSw?= =?us-ascii?q?CERkBgTgBHziBDngVh2Z2h3OBEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.42,482,1500940800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="13345121" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Oct 2017 05:26:02 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v965Q1C8012215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:26:02 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 00:26:01 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 00:26:01 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "'idr wg'" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Early allocation WG call (1-2 weeks) (Sept Thread-Index: AdM4jaYL6TSRCD10TXu5hNxjKcHuwwF1KDUQ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:26:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <005d01d3388e$4c3ffdd0$e4bff970$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <005d01d3388e$4c3ffdd0$e4bff970$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.94.219] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a0efeb4a9c5a42adb6944655985a8741XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation WG call (1-2 weeks) (Sept X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 05:26:05 -0000 --_000_a0efeb4a9c5a42adb6944655985a8741XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Sue for starting this call and please see inline for response. Support early allocation of code points since we have implementations await= ing the same. From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: 29 September 2017 00:47 To: 'idr wg' Subject: [Idr] Early allocation WG call (1-2 weeks) (Sept This is a WG call to approve the early allocation of code points requested = in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-00. These points are: This document requests IANA to assign 2 new code-points from the BGP- LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute TLVs registry as specified in sections 3 and 4. (secti= on 5) While considering this early allocation, please consider 1) Are there multiple vendors wishing to implement? [KT] Yes 2) Is the specification stable and accurate? [KT] Yes 3) How quickly do the implementers wish to progress the specification? [KT] Would like the spec to proceed rather quickly since we have implementa= tions. The Base MSD sub-type is defined in both IGP specs so would like the= se drafts to at least proceed with that. The other sub-types could be done = via separate drafts. We would need the base IGP specs to progress through b= efore this BGP-LS one. The early allocations have been already done for the= OSPF & ISIS MSD specs and the shared registry for the sub-types need to be= requested by the authors of those documents. 4) Do you have any concerns on granting this early allocation? [KT] No 5) Are you concerned about the IPR on this draft? [KT] No There is one IPR Statement on this draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-idr= -bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd The authors should indicate if they know of an IPR in addition to this draf= t. For easy access https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-idr= -bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd Susan Hares PS - Thank to Les, Ketan, and Jeff for helping to clear up my confusion --_000_a0efeb4a9c5a42adb6944655985a8741XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Sue for starting this call and please see inline for response.<= o:p>

 

Support early allocation of code points since we have implementations = awaiting the same.

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 29 September 2017 00:47
To: 'idr wg' <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] Early allocation WG call (1-2 weeks) (Sept=

 

This is a WG call to approve th= e early allocation of code points requested in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segmen= t-routing-msd-00.   These points are:

 

   This document =
requests IANA to assign 2 new code-points from the BGP-

   LS Node Descri=
ptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute

   TLVs registry =
as specified in sections 3 and =
4. (section 5) 


 

 

While considering this early al=
location, please consider



 


=
1)     
Are there multiple vendors wishing to implement?



[=
KT] Yes


=
2)     
Is the specification stable and accurate?



[=
KT] Yes


=
3)     
How quickly do the implementers wish to progress the specification?


[=
KT] Would like the spec to proceed rather quickly since we have implementat=
ions. The Base MSD sub-type is defined in both IGP specs so would like thes=
e drafts to at least proceed with that.
 The other sub-types could be done via separate drafts. We would need the b=
ase IGP specs to progress through before this BGP-LS one. The early allocat=
ions have been already done for the OSPF & ISIS MSD specs and the share=
d registry for the sub-types need to
 be requested by the authors of those documents.


=
4)     
Do you have any concerns on granting this early allocation?



[=
KT] No


=
5)     
Are you concerned about the IPR on this draft?



[=
KT] No


 


There is one IPR Statement on t=
his draft:



https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=
=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd


 


The authors should indicate if =
they know of an IPR in addition to this draft.



 


For easy access 


https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=
=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd


 


Susan Hares <=
/p>

 


PS – Thank to Les, Ketan,=
 and Jeff for helping to clear up my confusion


 
--_000_a0efeb4a9c5a42adb6944655985a8741XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Oct 5 22:54:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4040134306 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:54:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ER41sW5uL9Bj for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5A8E1342F7 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2017 22:54:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4542; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507269245; x=1508478845; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=xnXnifkWHK6qUTT/5vYyVzLn9HTSoRHOJfWXyTGzT0I=; b=YQw4Ssh1kpCMI+04IKABrf7gE8v2yFeIRSUv76LBoJdNuNKnwvuakgsX KM01nEN4A5bnFM8X6jRyyGTG5c/My77T54lkft4okysXZwG5MI6GI1OGD h6gxPTFYTcBGgw7pUV8Tw2Efjv0/7GC8okn/aD3sgohRvBv5PxOM6isbN Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CjAACLGddZ/5hdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg11kbicHjhKPZoF2eZU2ghIKGAuFGAKEGz8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FGAEBAQECAQEBOA0nCwUHBAIBCBEEAQEfCQcnCxQJCAIEAQ0FCAyKFAgQqFeDP?= =?us-ascii?q?4duAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDLYICgVGBaoJ0NYEkiVQFihKXIQK?= =?us-ascii?q?UWpMTkjWCdwIRGQGBOAEfOIEOeBVJhRocgWd2h3OBEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,482,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="307865342" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Oct 2017 05:53:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v965rnEj005953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:53:49 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 00:53:49 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 00:53:48 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "shares@ndzh.com" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy Thread-Index: AQHTPI0Anj2NHSBAwEuwVhUyBOQJvaLWVHdQ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 05:53:48 +0000 Message-ID: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.64.91] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 05:54:07 -0000 John - Thanx for the detailed analysis. Inline. > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:17 PM > To: idr@ietf.org > Cc: shares@ndzh.com > Subject: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routin= g-te- > policy >=20 > Hi WG, >=20 > Over a month ago we had a request for early allocation of the code points= in > draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. I think that means the TBD code > points listed in section 8.3, the Preference, Binding SID, and Segment Li= st > sub-TLVs, since all the rest have been properly allocated by IANA already= . > The draft appears to fulfill the requirements for early allocation, with = one > possible exception. >=20 > RFC 7120 says >=20 > c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if > there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later > specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. >=20 > On the face of it the current version of the spec fulfills this requireme= nt. I'm > slightly concerned that up through draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te- > policy-02, there were specific values given for >=20 > o new sub-TLVs in the registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute > sub-TLVs": >=20 > Suggested Description Reference > Value > ----------------------------------------------------- > 6 Preference sub-TLV This document > 7 Binding SID sub-TLV This document > 8 Segment List sub-TLV This document >=20 > These values conflict with values allocated for other uses in the IANA > registry. This was corrected quite some time ago, in -03 published Decemb= er > of 2016, which lists the values as "TBD" just as the current version does= , so > maybe there's no problem at all. >=20 > I presume that if we proceed forward with early allocation, any pre-stand= ard > implementations will be updated to use whatever values IANA actually > allocates -- which are sure not to be 6, 7 or 8 since those are already i= n use. If > that's so, then fine. If not, then we may need to have a discussion about > whether we really meet the "stability" requirement. >=20 [Les:] It is quite useful I think to point out this fact - but I fail to se= e how it is relevant to the early allocation decision. Given that we know = that these early codepoints are not available, I do not see that delaying e= arly allocation helps in any way. If there are implementations that used th= ese unassigned codepoints, the sooner we assign values the sooner these imp= lementations can be updated to use values which will be interoperable - so = if anything the facts argue that we should accelerate early allocation - no= t delay it. ??? Les > This begins a one-week period for discussion of the early allocation, whi= ch > time period may be extended if conversation warrants it. For completeness= , > here's my evaluation of the full list of RFC 7120 criteria: >=20 > a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC > Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, > requests for early assignment of code points from a > "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the > specification will be published as an RFC. >=20 > Yes. >=20 > b. The format, semantics, processing, and other rules related to > handling the protocol entities defined by the code points > (henceforth called "specifications") must be adequately described > in an Internet-Draft. >=20 > Yes. >=20 > c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if > there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later > specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. >=20 > Tentatively yes but see above. >=20 > d. The Working Group chairs and Area Directors (ADs) judge that > there is sufficient interest in the community for early (pre-RFC) > implementation and deployment, or that failure to make an early > allocation might lead to contention for the code point in the > field. >=20 > Yes. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Fri Oct 6 04:28:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFEB13495E for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:28:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TBhw5KosO4ks for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 837191342D3 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 04:28:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6812; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507289327; x=1508498927; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=5HAFR7uWxQt7+MKsMTR07lXQGWdO0h3pRjRK51lczrc=; b=A1CceaiozUpf9HybronOaPBeNyGGLv+3uXj/cILN2Pxxsac1zmppnbrP K2pHR3eIWtEiJB/pNgk3ynhbqp6MjS1Pmjy53yO76BJWi4LSP3YWXlol+ Aggr9YKcI2CESBK7EWUx5dIpOViF9AlM+mGGMJs3z9xP+Imbha+j+6KDZ 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CdAABRZ9dZ/4wNJK1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg11kbicHg3OKH49ngXZ5lTaCEgoYC4UYAhqEBj8YAQIBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BayiFGAEBAQEDAQEhERMnCwwEAgEIEQQBAQMCIwMCAgIlCxQBCAgCBAENBRSKH?= =?us-ascii?q?BClXYIngz+HagEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ6CH4ICgzuCdDWBJIZ?= =?us-ascii?q?zgmEFihKXIQKUY5MKkjWCdwIRGQGBOAEfOIEOeBVJhRocgWd2iCqBEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,483,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="302513447" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Oct 2017 11:28:46 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-002.cisco.com (xch-rtp-002.cisco.com [64.101.220.142]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v96BSjSA003307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:28:46 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-002.cisco.com (64.101.220.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:28:44 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:28:44 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "shares@ndzh.com" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy Thread-Index: AQHTPI0Anj2NHSBAwEuwVhUyBOQJvaLWVHdQgABe4YA= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:28:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <26F58CD2D1C3D7489B9170C476DB56C8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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charset=us-ascii On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: > [Les:] It is quite useful I think to point out this fact - but I fail = to see how it is relevant to the early allocation decision. Given that = we know that these early codepoints are not available, I do not see that = delaying early allocation helps in any way. If there are implementations = that used these unassigned codepoints, the sooner we assign values the = sooner these implementations can be updated to use values which will be = interoperable - so if anything the facts argue that we should accelerate = early allocation - not delay it. That is a fine position to take and consistent with what I tried to = express (whether it came through clearly or not). Thanks, --John= --Apple-Mail=_0094B4F1-A4AE-4810-89EB-1EA6D53C65C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> = wrote:
[Les:] It is quite useful I = think to point out this fact - but I fail to see how it is relevant to = the early allocation decision.  Given that we know that these early = codepoints are not available, I do not see that delaying early = allocation helps in any way. If there are implementations that used = these unassigned codepoints, the sooner we assign values the sooner = these implementations can be updated to use values which will be = interoperable - so if anything the facts argue that we should accelerate = early allocation - not delay it.

That = is a fine position to take and consistent with what I tried to express = (whether it came through clearly or not).

Thanks,

--John
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Thanks, --John= From nobody Fri Oct 6 07:39:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D163013209C for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:39:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arista.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kKKzq0Bt4quo for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96E181342E9 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id k4so8354359wmc.1 for ; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arista.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HJSl3UPa+iOQsKrloiV70KhE0qp4VT0EwrJEpPQeu5o=; b=KO0oACTSiuhxk23VisIxICxCHHEGwVHx4hTcklHQSVzHUyWS1zh/gvQ7bcEUduK8yP oZDsMWaMv9xTwxD2ExJE6vYi2rlpTjEHQQvaNPfdVjOTsZUriINgKjzPKRf+xEfL6jyH J6bFRFqdyprfNUvSg/TzUaLo2mTuAkXg8rngA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HJSl3UPa+iOQsKrloiV70KhE0qp4VT0EwrJEpPQeu5o=; b=aI0T1+iLaeX9ekwK7FPp87HKP43vZ8yLlq5LpMj1gnwieAEBy93NupaYrxLHOkx4t1 NYf3S8Q8RVjL4kyG73wJZQTQ+rs0fgKSzQrRdOHjY5SwmGDWqex4H4wg6tv5ykkpJoU9 JwqGgi5xKS/CdKw3tljNolef7Gn9ZA7Bpph/1k9Z1okJc44w+uypoQgzejNDCjxp23Rp Iule3TtVMdI09H20J6Sk76z0eBUbdib0LXd3lg/HshxPU/t9HqyKKJd4vkU1Sl0l1Cav xX4VCvlv9y8ptw0ODEA7KB6U9H5N3WxWM5d4XG2V/gnimaiYs9+83+MTQfZINcpPYuk7 Wo6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUv5tpsNsHUVwnR0lm2TMNj/RCwRKB9S1Qxj/fxrv/xnN13LnC1 Jd2lfHJFt02Ui3RzHHIqwYvzHkGICbVpJdjdFP9mFJuP6MU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBtIcLYTtTqZtp4sLTA+sFHdKLUsqaSAs6bl9X7wEhYAti/wZKatGOy5qdGHQHNvZPIBRE51M4rI0xiKOsssoA= X-Received: by 10.80.172.74 with SMTP id w10mr3556021edc.257.1507300730941; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 07:38:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.244.22 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:38:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Nandan Saha Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:08:50 +0530 Message-ID: To: stefano previdi Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c434ca34242055ae1cc22" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 14:39:01 -0000 --f403045c434ca34242055ae1cc22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Some more questions / comments 1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present in the Tunnel encap tlv. Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for acceptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end point isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the NLRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be done only if both color and remote end point are present. 2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs in the tunnel encap tlv. The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have to make sure it matches the NLRI? 3. What should be the behavior when a sub tlv in the tunnel encap attribute is malformed? Should it follow the error handling defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#section-11 4. This draft says that the remote end point MAY be present, but draft-ietf-dr-tunnel-encaps seems to imply that it is a MUST. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#section-3.1 says <<< If the Remote Endpoint sub-TLV is malformed, the TLV containing it is also considered to be malformed, and the entire TLV MUST be ignored. >>> Later in section 11, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#section-11 <<< A TLV that does not contain exactly one Remote Endpoint sub-TLV MUST be treated as if it contained a malformed Remote Endpoint sub-TLV. >>> To me this looks like a tunnel end point TLV MUST have a valid remote endpoint sub-tlv. Can this draft make it clear that it is overriding this requirement of draft-idr-tunnel-encaps? 5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling. In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence is <<< If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supporting this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of [RFC7606] >>> Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is <<< A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST trigger a reset of the BGP session >>> Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdraw in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot parse it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate. Thanks, Nandan On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Nandan Saha wrote: > Hello again, > I had a couple of further questions / clarifications. > 1. Binding SID Sub tlv encoding: > Please confirm that the BSID Sub-tlv with length =3D 6 (4 octet SID) > contains the MPLS label in the lower 20 bits. > Btw, is a Binding SID always a full label and never an index? It's not > mentioned so explicitly in draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-0= 1 > > 2. How to treat received weight sub-tlv with weight=3D0 ? > If we plug weight =3D 0 in the formula in section 7.1 of the SR TE draft, > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment- > routing-policy-01#section-7.1, then we end up with 0/Sw, so the segment > list won't get any traffic (essentially the segment list isn't present). > To me a weight =3D 0 seems useless and if we allow it we will get into so= me > strange corner cases, like if the policy has only one segment list, but i= ts > weight is 0, should it then be treated as an unacceptable policy and > treat-as-withdraw? > It would be simpler to either limit the weight to be > 0 and if 0 is > received treat it as if no weight was received. Does that make sense? > Any thoughts on this? > > Thanks, > Nandan > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Nandan Saha wrote: > >> Thank you Stefano for clarifying. >> >> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:12 PM, stefano previdi >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Nandan, >>> >>> sorry for being late. See below. >>> >>> >>> > On Jul 3, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Nandan Saha wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello! >>> > >>> > I have some questions on the NLRI encoding. >>> > 1. Can the value of NLRI length be less than 96 for IPv4 AFI and less >>> > than 192 for IPv6 AFI? IOW, can it be less than full mask length for >>> > the end point address? >>> >>> no. >>> >>> >>> > 2. If the answer to (1) is "yes", then what is the rationale for >>> > keeping the end point address field of the NLRI fixed length? (4 or 1= 6 >>> > bytes depending on AFI). Should the end point become variable length >>> > like the NLRI encoding defined in RFC4760? >>> > 3. If the answer to (1) is "no", how are summary addresses to be >>> represented? >>> >>> >>> there=E2=80=99s no such concept of =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D fo= r the endpoint encoding. >>> The draft is going to be updated and the term =E2=80=9Csummary address= =E2=80=9D will be >>> removed from the endpoint filed description. Sorry for the confusiuon. >>> >>> >>> > Another question which is unrelated to the changes in version 7 of th= e >>> draft. >>> > Section "4.2.1. Acceptance of an SR Policy NLRI" says >>> > " If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supporting >>> > this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be >>> > malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of [RFC7606= ] >>> > " >>> > It's not clear to me how a receiver can extract a valid route from a >>> > malformed NLRI. >>> >>> >>> you just have to check the nlri length. >>> >>> >>> > The "treat-as-withdraw" can be applied if the NLRI is >>> > well formed but some other attributes are malformed, which seems to b= e >>> > implied by the following line at the end of the subsection >>> > "A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUS= T >>> > trigger a reset of the BGP session.=E2=80=9D >>> >>> >>> that is correct. >>> >>> s. >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Thank you! >>> > Best regards, >>> > Nandan >>> > >>> > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:30 AM, wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. >>> >> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF. >>> >> >>> >> Title : Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP >>> >> Authors : Stefano Previdi >>> >> Clarence Filsfils >>> >> Paul Mattes >>> >> Eric Rosen >>> >> Steven Lin >>> >> Filename : draft-previdi-idr-segment-rout >>> ing-te-policy-07.txt >>> >> Pages : 30 >>> >> Date : 2017-06-23 >>> >> >>> >> Abstract: >>> >> This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI in order to >>> >> advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy (SR Policy)= . >>> >> An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of one or more >>> >> segment lists. The headend of an SR Policy may learn multiple >>> >> candidate paths for an SR Policy. Candidate paths may be learned >>> via >>> >> a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, PCEP, or BGP= . >>> >> This document specifies the way in which BGP may be used to >>> >> distribute candidate paths. New sub-TLVs for the Tunnel >>> >> Encapsulation Attribute are defined. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-idr-segment-r >>> outing-te-policy/ >>> >> >>> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routin >>> g-te-policy-07 >>> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-previdi-idr-segm >>> ent-routing-te-policy-07 >>> >> >>> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-idr-segment- >>> routing-te-policy-07 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >>> >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >> >>> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Idr mailing list >>> >> Idr@ietf.org >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Idr mailing list >>> > Idr@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> >>> >> > --f403045c434ca34242055ae1cc22 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Some more questions / comments

1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is pres= ent in the Tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 Should the match on either co= lor or remote end point be done for acceptance? For example the color sub-t= lv is present, but the remote end point isn't. So the color of the colo= r sub-tlv must match the color in the NLRI. Or should the condition for mat= ching of color / remote end point be done only if both color and remote end= point are present.

2. What is the rationale for i= ncluding remote end point / color sub tlvs in the tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an opti= on to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then h= ave to make sure it matches the NLRI?

3. What shou= ld be the behavior when a sub tlv in the tunnel encap attribute is malforme= d?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Should it follow the error handling defined in=C2= =A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#sect= ion-11

4. This draft says that the remote end = point MAY be present, but draft-ietf-dr-tunnel-encaps seems to imply that i= t is a MUST.
<<&= lt;
If the Remote Endpoint sub-TLV is malformed, the TLV con= taining it is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0also considered to be malformed, and t= he entire TLV MUST be ignored.
>>>
<<<
A TLV th= at does not contain exactly one Remote Endpoint sub-TLV MUST
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0be treated as if it contained a malformed Remote Endpoint sub-TLV= .
>>>
To me this looks like a tunnel end= point TLV MUST have a valid remote endpoint sub-tlv. Can this draft make i= t clear that it is overriding this requirement of draft-idr-tunnel-encaps?<= br>

5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI hand= ling.
In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point'= s 2nd sentence is=C2=A0
<<<
If the NLRI i= s not one of the legal lengths, a router
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sup= porting this document and that imports the route MUST consider
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-w= ithdraw" strategy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of [RFC7606]
>>>
Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 = is
<<<
A unacceptable SR Policy update th= at has an invalid NLRI portion MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger a reset = of the BGP session
>>>
Can the draft be = updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdraw in the first st= atement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot parse it; and also b= ecause it conflicts with the 2nd mandate.

Than= ks,
Nandan

On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Nandan Saha <nandan@ari= sta.com> wrote:
Hello again,
=C2=A0I had a couple of further questions / clarific= ations.
1. Binding SID Sub tlv encoding:
=C2=A0Please c= onfirm that the BSID Sub-tlv with length =3D 6 (4 octet SID) contains the M= PLS label in the lower 20 bits.
Btw, is a Binding SID always = a full label and never an index? It's not mentioned so explicitly in=C2= =A0draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01

2. How to treat received weight sub-tlv with weight=3D0 ?
I= f we plug weight =3D 0 in the formula in section 7.1 of the SR TE draft, https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01#section-7.1, then w= e end up with 0/Sw, so the segment list won't get any traffic (essentia= lly the segment list isn't present).=C2=A0
To me a weight =3D= 0 seems useless and if we allow it we will get into some strange corner ca= ses, like if the policy has only one segment list, but its weight is 0, sho= uld it then be treated as an unacceptable policy and treat-as-withdraw?
=
It would be simpler to either limit the weight to be > 0 and = if 0 is received treat it as if no weight was received. Does that make sens= e?
Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Nandan

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM= , Nandan Saha <nandan@arista.com> wrote:
Thank you Stefano for clarifying.=C2=A0

On Mon, = Jul 17, 2017 at 6:12 PM, stefano previdi <stefano@previdi.net> wrote:
Hi Nandan,

sorry for being late. See below.


> On Jul 3, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Nandan Saha <nandan@arista.com> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have some questions on the NLRI encoding.
> 1. Can the value of NLRI length be less than 96 for IPv4 AFI and less<= br> > than 192 for IPv6 AFI? IOW, can it be less than full mask length for > the end point address?

no.


> 2. If the answer to (1) is "yes", then what is the rationale= for
> keeping the end point address field of the NLRI fixed length? (4 or 16=
> bytes depending on AFI). Should the end point become variable length > like the NLRI encoding defined in RFC4760?
> 3. If the answer to (1) is "no", how are summary addresses t= o be represented?


there=E2=80=99s no such concept of =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D= for the endpoint encoding. The draft is going to be updated and the term = =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D will be removed from the endpoint filed d= escription. Sorry for the confusiuon.


> Another question which is unrelated to the changes in version 7 of the= draft.
> Section "4.2.1. Acceptance of an SR Policy NLRI" says
> " If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supportin= g
> this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be
> malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of= [RFC7606]
> "
> It's not clear to me how a receiver can extract a valid route from= a
> malformed NLRI.


you just have to check the nlri length.


> The "treat-as-withdraw" can be applied if the NLRI is
> well formed but some other attributes are malformed, which seems to be=
> implied by the following line at the end of the subsection
> "A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion= MUST
> trigger a reset of the BGP session.=E2=80=9D


that is correct.

s.


>
> Thank you!
> Best regards,
> Nandan
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:30 AM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts= directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.=
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0: Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0: Stefano Previdi
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarence Filsfils
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Paul Mattes
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Eric Rosen
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Steven Lin
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : d= raft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0: 30
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 : 2017-06-23
>>
>> Abstract:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI i= n order to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy= (SR Policy).
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of= one or more
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0segment lists.=C2=A0 The headend of an SR Policy may l= earn multiple
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0candidate paths for an SR Policy.=C2=A0 Candidate path= s may be learned via
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, = PCEP, or BGP.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document specifies the way in which BGP may be us= ed to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribute candidate paths.=C2=A0 New sub-TLVs for the= Tunnel
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Encapsulation Attribute are defined.
>>
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy/
>>
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07
>> https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-= te-policy-07
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://w= ww.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-p= olicy-07
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr=
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr




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([2607:fb90:8648:ffd7:52:38f4:322b:8c3d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t125sm3508706pgc.88.2017.10.06.09.32.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Oct 2017 09:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15A403) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:32:00 -0700 Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" , "shares@ndzh.com" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:32:07 -0000 +1 Having code points allocated early would save early implementations from cha= nging later on, de-allocation for drafts that didn=92t make it should be qui= te straightforward process. Regards, Jeff > On Oct 6, 2017, at 04:28, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Hi John, Les, >=20 > On 10/6/17, 1:53 AM, "Idr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > wrote: >=20 >> John - >>=20 >> Thanx for the detailed analysis. >> Inline. >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:17 PM >>> To: idr@ietf.org >>> Cc: shares@ndzh.com >>> Subject: [Idr] Early allocation request for >>> draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te- >>> policy >>>=20 >>> Hi WG, >>>=20 >>> Over a month ago we had a request for early allocation of the code >>> points in >>> draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. I think that means the TBD >>> code >>> points listed in section 8.3, the Preference, Binding SID, and Segment >>> List >>> sub-TLVs, since all the rest have been properly allocated by IANA >>> already. >>> The draft appears to fulfill the requirements for early allocation, >>> with one >>> possible exception. >>>=20 >>> RFC 7120 says >>>=20 >>> c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if >>> there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later >>> specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. >>>=20 >>> On the face of it the current version of the spec fulfills this >>> requirement. I'm >>> slightly concerned that up through draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-= >>> policy-02, there were specific values given for >>>=20 >>> o new sub-TLVs in the registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute >>> sub-TLVs": >>>=20 >>> Suggested Description Reference >>> Value >>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>> 6 Preference sub-TLV This document >>> 7 Binding SID sub-TLV This document >>> 8 Segment List sub-TLV This document >>>=20 >>> These values conflict with values allocated for other uses in the IANA >>> registry. This was corrected quite some time ago, in -03 published >>> December >>> of 2016, which lists the values as "TBD" just as the current version >>> does, so >>> maybe there's no problem at all. >>>=20 >>> I presume that if we proceed forward with early allocation, any >>> pre-standard >>> implementations will be updated to use whatever values IANA actually >>> allocates -- which are sure not to be 6, 7 or 8 since those are already >>> in use. If >>> that's so, then fine. If not, then we may need to have a discussion >>> about >>> whether we really meet the "stability" requirement. >>>=20 >> [Les:] It is quite useful I think to point out this fact - but I fail to >> see how it is relevant to the early allocation decision. Given that we >> know that these early codepoints are not available, I do not see that >> delaying early allocation helps in any way. If there are implementations >> that used these unassigned codepoints, the sooner we assign values the >> sooner these implementations can be updated to use values which will be >> interoperable - so if anything the facts argue that we should accelerate >> early allocation - not delay it. >=20 > I agree totally, we=92ll achieve nothing by delaying this any longer. >=20 > Thanks, > Acee >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> ??? >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >>> This begins a one-week period for discussion of the early allocation, >>> which >>> time period may be extended if conversation warrants it. For >>> completeness, >>> here's my evaluation of the full list of RFC 7120 criteria: >>>=20 >>> a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC >>> Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, >>> requests for early assignment of code points from a >>> "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the >>> specification will be published as an RFC. >>>=20 >>> Yes. >>>=20 >>> b. The format, semantics, processing, and other rules related to >>> handling the protocol entities defined by the code points >>> (henceforth called "specifications") must be adequately described >>> in an Internet-Draft. >>>=20 >>> Yes. >>>=20 >>> c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if >>> there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later >>> specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. >>>=20 >>> Tentatively yes but see above. >>>=20 >>> d. The Working Group chairs and Area Directors (ADs) judge that >>> there is sufficient interest in the community for early (pre-RFC) >>> implementation and deployment, or that failure to make an early >>> allocation might lead to contention for the code point in the >>> field. >>>=20 >>> Yes. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> --John >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:30:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039441321A2 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:30:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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We = will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.) A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list = with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20 = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14= Thanks, --John= From nobody Fri Oct 6 10:39:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF8D134B54; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MSS7bqB9RPJy; 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Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Thanks, --John= From nobody Fri Oct 6 11:23:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E481134997 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:23:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29IbJm2Ag5BO for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D02E6134BF1 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id b189so9014007wmd.4 for ; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:23:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=uVf8ch/K7dU/wDl/o8Gy7AgvdKP16w+QWdp91U4BceA=; b=g9o2Eon/5QrhRfKwgC9jaGEpy1DW/+FJ0exXbLH95ySg+xxm3fWiEUH2tZLqJwFgDG 44PxIowEVl43ULvJzJ9NHZH1EXjSrviZ//CntwrZHPtBWqrd05DwPCuvVe9KUKZ0vCPH kaQm1DMEbfv8Nah4mtkJNoSN16aYGEoxGiKzIzyGsZHLDEHMBXpYo8Bbn+L5JsVhTEAm mcf6MinqDHjWo3XtB8dYzp7ZgDt+IzjVrFMi54VrjgJgUq9E/Tqwi1xWLfpd1x7uGtVV g+qdMjqIGAUfEyFHmMajuM5E3uz9I/Rj0jck9sOeta5WqYMjXdL6gSP0s6Wva1dfEjqB 1eOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uVf8ch/K7dU/wDl/o8Gy7AgvdKP16w+QWdp91U4BceA=; b=tmrfnuEi+tSzIKwlDxW/chMD9SdIfIJ2npHCi0Ke3hLPFZQIcl4W/mO2WuFqniXvjR ogW0GWYbASLF0KIjjfz2+vMNmrgXwT6mGbAN4U2Yo/DIdsNhSrQMr4iqLR//Lz+TDjrN SfsjMGpSzCdPZGgm0/O7/t21Ffj8EfpE9G+2QzNrUcFOU1f/oPvV3RnUuww+nGfqMeDK /uef80IWL1FkVpBsjEU1Ccr95kSJk6EMogRAFbdHSls7OBHBR0x/+2NgjE4TPSxv9Cke MpCZMb2n5ZEldibut01Vyolm50PWaOpNzVlr/Qz5E/fCNvYPfhyv5tA8scHcSSkJwmix VAGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXQK1M1YfQU3vbduilEdxGTV41PD8v0I7FQM2Y8bRo776RGYtWW r7aHJn4EvPJQ28pjpQR0GDXjiFrvNVWJj/lM628= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDdOJgT5l5Eu3KhM7pcfFN7ldOVb/c8GiP/qlxbCDXBddsAVyV6WgPmRiz3EZKXXOt/xNETSyDQv0wZiMx9IV8= X-Received: by 10.28.95.10 with SMTP id t10mr2482400wmb.72.1507314203107; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:23:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:23:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:23:22 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Q1KIjiLVTvphtlVa1KIN--8rlPM Message-ID: To: John Scudder Cc: idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148fb0aa4273d055ae4ef0f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 18:23:30 -0000 --001a1148fb0aa4273d055ae4ef0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am not aware about any IPR associated with draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Thx, Robert Raszuk. On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:30 PM, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, > > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We > will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.) > > A working group last call has been requested for > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list > with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without > participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October > 20, 2017. > > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 > > Thanks, > > --John > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a1148fb0aa4273d055ae4ef0f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am not a= ware about any IPR associated with=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-re= flection-14.

Thx,
R= obert Raszuk.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:30 PM, John Scudder <= jgs@juniper.net>= ; wrote:
Hi All,

(This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We wil= l stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)

A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal= -route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list with your comments. As = usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the group= . Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.

https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14

Thanks,

--John
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--001a1148fb0aa4273d055ae4ef0f-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 11:24:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405A5134BCC; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:24:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOfHDmmmle0N; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AAC8134BD0; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id q132so9448240wmd.2; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=1S08AQ3hNqr6LH9VqCctTRCbNbsGhH+16QES+nGx+C8=; b=D3lyTUeUbggAfr0iry4joUEiWR9U454zjEWduwbBWY6LOuAYizWyLk4D7dESCj1FCN SrQvY2/j0X6H/z+7kr2nnIpjfVQtodHlfxWIqvV0mCwjS4koHeYmP9XoY3W79PL9/n4F amHjzcG+0ns8ETsTn/7hHrACIguzm8cXNTiNWk7K5h05q8hJcLncw1bQg33UhnvA1Z8t VQe9f8Y1tFaMG/Af31/CsoQjY9U6XwooH3m37G2YuEZymSXvDFmoAPYezAVFPdtCY6yA FBS/Ad5krBpjLSxEC9QtNXfz4Pu0M1JUhiFK/mLSb2hYx1zXfx5kyq956cM57bqo90tb Hq1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1S08AQ3hNqr6LH9VqCctTRCbNbsGhH+16QES+nGx+C8=; b=IG8MHmWMEAPM0XjEZrgAfoKYmfKMS0jlVKWpJLNBqfSM8N8WlNIscfNLE8ja436F7q H9Z4LgjK+5RDeHuIDnTpmdONU/sJDXf9iLq11uYtDGw2+icmvSdwQ3rSmMFisxazK8hQ 3LxReokDTSTMnnuh3dTprZN+VxfOP2OC4zjfw67auuC0hlDJhqgWNhBs3bojoohaIz0l HEcu7uQMR7xNMTEfvkc/b/LdUfJitFXwfrypCqf0+fvSo+VV+dpkeu7MiWCmLaLg3Q7t /KVXcO7o9hdWVlaXPjhtCQyCkhX5K/VvRRbAD/rlZWssLRNJMIfBuVcgm/bJ2prsE1RH IYNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVoK3etSp8k0EWBTMWa+9cVbxspoIYMRfiBzH6/ynCrEd9lOBzM bFhURrFPAoiYq7+9QJmh41AbrYylQfKDWcjhEao= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAgSLtFw09Dd9df7S3MYzjQJ7L2j9GYIQuR2AH3U03b69tmYo6sMN+BphmuIjCryNREswOBBGXdIBPZVki4DPA= X-Received: by 10.28.196.79 with SMTP id u76mr2528919wmf.95.1507314288510; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:24:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:24:47 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YPiXvQgYjBgpNyQ8MM45Ffykkik Message-ID: To: John Scudder Cc: idr wg , draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1931fabb516e055ae4f4ef" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 18:24:52 -0000 --94eb2c1931fabb516e055ae4f4ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am not aware about any IPR associated with draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Thx Robert Raszuk. On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, > > A working group last call has been requested for > draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your comments. > As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the > group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017. > > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 > > Thanks, > > --John --94eb2c1931fabb516e055ae4f4ef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am not aware about any IPR associated= with=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04.

Thx
Robert Raszuk.

On Fri, Oct 6, = 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi All,

A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-= 04. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot ad= vance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your comme= nts in before October 20, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-= idr-rfc5575bis-04

Thanks,

--John

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Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. We previously had a WGLC for version -04, = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18151.html, which = failed to achieve consensus largely due to lack of participation. Since = then there have been several revisions to the document and active = discussion, so I hope we'll have better engagement this time and will be = able to conclude this WGLC. I especially hope we can proceed forward = since drafts in both OSPF and BESS normatively reference this draft, for = this reason I've cc'd both the OSPF and BESS mailing lists. The authors have already confirmed IPR during the previous last call, so = we won't require that again. Of course, if there have been any changes = to IPR status since -04, please do make the necessary disclosures. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07 Thanks, --John= From nobody Fri Oct 6 11:39:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE52134BB3; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:39:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CeRKRm31iCQ9; 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Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. We previously had a WGLC for version -04, = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18151.html, which = failed to achieve consensus largely due to lack of participation. Since = then there have been several revisions to the document and active = discussion, so I hope we'll have better engagement this time and will be = able to conclude this WGLC. I especially hope we can proceed forward = since drafts in both OSPF and BESS normatively reference this draft, for = this reason I've cc'd both the OSPF and BESS mailing lists. The authors have already confirmed IPR during the previous last call, so = we won't require that again. Of course, if there have been any changes = to IPR status since -04, please do make the necessary disclosures. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07 Thanks, --John= From nobody Fri Oct 6 11:46:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E45134C1F; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 11:46:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=verisign.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yTZJbbCEPxrR; 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Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:45:58 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:45:58 -0400 From: "McPherson, Danny" To: Robert Raszuk , John Scudder CC: idr wg , "draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Thread-Index: AQHTPtBoxhXXRxhIVUm9ih7NGEE1FqLXbB8A Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 18:45:57 +0000 Message-ID: <29FE02ED-8F2B-4CBD-AC46-A623202AF9E6@verisign.com> References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.26.0.170902 x-originating-ip: [10.170.148.18] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha256; boundary="B_3590145958_293331362" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 18:46:02 -0000 --B_3590145958_293331362 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3590145958_204378433" --B_3590145958_204378433 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Me either.. -danny From: on behalf of Robert Raszuk Date: Friday, October 6, 2017 at 2:24 PM To: John Scudder Cc: idr wg , "draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org" Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Resent-From: Resent-To: , , , , Resent-Date: Friday, October 6, 2017 at 2:24 PM I am not aware about any IPR associated with draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Thx Robert Raszuk. On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder wrote: Hi All, A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017. Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Thanks, --John --B_3590145958_204378433 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

 

Me either..

 

-danny

 

From: <rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net= >
Date: Friday, October 6, 2017 at 2:24 PM
To: John S= cudder <jgs@juniper.net>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, &q= uot;draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@i= etf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc557= 5bis-04
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-T= o: <shares@ndzh.com>, <cl@tix.at>, <robert@raszuk.net>= , <dmcpherson@verisign.com>, <mb.ietf@gmail.com>
Resent-Da= te: Friday, October 6, 2017 at 2:24 PM

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'> 

<= div>

I am not aware about any IPR associated wi= th draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04.

 

Thx

Robert Raszuk.

 

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:

Hi All,

A working group last call has b= een requested for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list wit= h your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participa= tion from the group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017.
Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
Thanks,

--John

 

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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebYNGOeDv6ja; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hated.at (mail.hated.at [IPv6:2001:858:2:8::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90A06134C6C; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 80-110-97-151.cgn.dynamic.surfer.at ([80.110.97.151] helo=[192.168.66.220]) by mail.hated.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1e0Yf4-0004Rc-30; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 21:51:55 +0200 From: Christoph Loibl Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3371A776-8474-4767-AD7A-DAE78E6E36C5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 22:08:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: John Scudder , idr wg , draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org To: Robert Raszuk References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 20:08:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3371A776-8474-4767-AD7A-DAE78E6E36C5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_009A39D7-AA0F-4B8A-9432-B912F0F99E38" --Apple-Mail=_009A39D7-AA0F-4B8A-9432-B912F0F99E38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I am not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Christoph -- Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at > On 6 Oct 2017, at 20:24, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > I am not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. >=20 > Thx > Robert Raszuk. >=20 > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder > wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. >=20 > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 = >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John >=20 --Apple-Mail=_009A39D7-AA0F-4B8A-9432-B912F0F99E38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,

I am not aware about any IPR associated = with draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04.

Christoph

-- 
Christoph = Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 = | http://www.nextlayer.at



On 6 Oct 2017, at 20:24, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

I am = not aware about any IPR associated = with draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04.

Thx
=
Robert = Raszuk.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi All,

A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04

Thanks,

--John


= --Apple-Mail=_009A39D7-AA0F-4B8A-9432-B912F0F99E38-- --Apple-Mail=_3371A776-8474-4767-AD7A-DAE78E6E36C5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlnX4qIACgkQ0m2Mp0ssAFU6FQCguUsDJnb3dnPYQ466PuWHVUIg oxIAoOfd/va2sSxKk6JP1AwIaKeIThiW =hG0V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_3371A776-8474-4767-AD7A-DAE78E6E36C5-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 13:17:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31814134C98 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:17:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VaFrBAs943P0 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B44B3134C9B for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:17:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12774; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507321050; x=1508530650; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=n/MlAMsr/4MEyqdmevH7Qp61F5jEmcQdeflkU3UTeok=; b=JjBuBGJ9AR/Wh5P9dS5StoMazZwFlfDVG8f7+k0bxDPicYJ0jmLMvWV6 1mV2fqMbtPcHkqmAo8VGRQMSaNlSFBYg84O8bUx2HN4XTFMtYtUmtiXG4 oQ34YJCfLkP4lUjjW2O8LGmS4Mmjb8AuPcyoazQfsKQUeWtu9VlJ7Md54 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CkAAAV5NdZ/51dJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm9uZG4nB4Nzih+PaoF2kHCFP4ISCoU7AhqEBj8YAQIBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BayiFGAEBAQEDI1YQAgEIEQMBAigDAgICMBQJCAIEDgWJTGSkeYInJ4sNAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYMtggKBUYIVgkk1gSSEABaCXS+CMgWhMwKUY5M?= =?us-ascii?q?KlSwCERkBgTgBHziBDngVSRIBhQccgWd2iC2BEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,484,1500940800"; d="scan'208,217";a="302716902" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Oct 2017 20:17:29 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com (xch-rtp-009.cisco.com [64.101.220.149]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v96KHTF2007569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:17:29 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) by XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com (64.101.220.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:17:28 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com ([64.101.220.152]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:17:28 -0400 From: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" To: "John G. Scudder" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "shares@ndzh.com" , "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Jose Liste (jliste)" , "Arjun Sreekantiah (asreekan)" , "Dhanendra Jain (dhjain)" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy Thread-Index: AQHTPuAhPuzOyPOTY0+MI0YZZ0Zy+Q== Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:17:28 +0000 Message-ID: <39C033F2-AE72-4FAE-BA6E-6586F3F0AE0B@cisco.com> References: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.160.246] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_39C033F2AE724FAEBA6E6586F3F0AE0Bciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 20:17:37 -0000 --_000_39C033F2AE724FAEBA6E6586F3F0AE0Bciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sm9obiwNCg0KKzENCg0KV2Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byByZXF1ZXN0IGZvciBhbGxvY2F0aW9uIGZv ciBmb2xsb3dpbmcgU3ViLVRMViB0byBiZS4gUGxzIGxldCB1cyBrbm93IHdoZW4gdGhlIGFsbG9j YXRpb24gaXMgZG9uZS4NCg0KUHJlZmVyZW5jZSBzdWItVExWDQoNCjYNCg0KQmluZGluZyBTSUQg c3ViLVRMVg0KDQo3DQoNClNlZ21lbnQgTGlzdCBzdWItVExWDQoNCjEyOA0KDQoNCg0KQ2hlZXJz LA0KDQpHYXVyYXYNCg0KRnJvbTogSWRyIDxpZHItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gb24gYmVoYWxm IG9mICJKb2huIEcuIFNjdWRkZXIiIDxqZ3NAanVuaXBlci5uZXQ+DQpEYXRlOiBGcmlkYXksIE9j dG9iZXIgNiwgMjAxNyBhdCA1OjUwIEFNDQpUbzogIkxlcyBHaW5zYmVyZyAoZ2luc2JlcmcpIiA8 Z2luc2JlcmdAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KQ2M6ICJpZHJAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxpZHJAaWV0Zi5vcmc+LCAi 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with ESMTP id 7C8F6134C98; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.033 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.033 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ryysfuhGAZR; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-01.sil.at (smtp-01-5.sil.at [78.142.186.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30D1E132EA7; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [46.125.249.72] (helo=[192.168.22.9]) by smtp-01.sil.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1e0ZEg-0006Nz-Of; Fri, 06 Oct 2017 22:28:42 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Martin Bacher In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 22:28:25 +0200 Cc: Martin Bacher , idr wg , draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org, Robert Raszuk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8FB7FDEE-16B5-4D43-B6D1-FA8BF347D1BF@gmail.com> References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> To: John Scudder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-H-Notify: Remote host 46.125.249.72 incorrectly presented itself as [192.168.22.9] X-Scan-Signature: 63fb4d616f6de0b67668222d3dea4bb5 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 20:28:48 -0000 I am also not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Martin > Am 06.10.2017 um 20:24 schrieb Robert Raszuk : >=20 > I am not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. >=20 > Thx > Robert Raszuk. >=20 > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. >=20 > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John >=20 From nobody Fri Oct 6 13:31:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C5013263F for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:31:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GVNGYxTOfV6P for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam01on0103.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.32.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05B8A134C84 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 13:31:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=VMri+f4/QDSo4BDzAOAHbANpSozdvwzAfimtsy+iKWc=; b=bBRdSFODkMBk/81vwcLV/CiMZY8i3F/2OB9l8eSWVbR0gtd/8bzOoigAHS2ESdYdMCqygXUYr8SO6FbZG3gdieBu4FxnlG1g3WvWEpdrF320y0Cp8lil9kfIuOMGEYF2aTnLTD4HNVFQqinj+kPxUXqYt8WMMGjG8HypWwYX5c4= Received: from tokolowicz-sslvpn-nc.jnpr.net (66.129.241.14) by CO2PR05MB2502.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.166.95.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.5; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:31:08 +0000 From: "John G. 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charset=us-ascii Hi Gaurav, This thread is exactly to discuss the proposed early allocation for = those sub-TLVs. However I'm a little confused (or perhaps concerned) by = your note, since you list explicit values that aren't available. As you = can see if you consult the IANA registry = (https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunn= el-sub-tlvs) both 6 and 7 have already been allocated. 128 is currently = unallocated and I see no reason that preference couldn't be satisfied, = but I don't think the requests for 6 and 7 can be. I would anticipate IANA would allocate the first two unused values for = Preference and Binding SID. As for when it will be done, the discussion period will close this = coming Tuesday, October 10. Assuming no blocking objections are raised, = I'll forward the request to the AD and IANA. They've usually been able = to process such requests within a few days, so it's possible the values = will be allocated before end of next week. Of course I'll keep the list = posted about progress. --John > On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Gaurav Dawra (gdawra) = wrote: >=20 > John, > =20 > +1 > =20 > We would like to request for allocation for following Sub-TLV to be. = Pls let us know when the allocation is done. > =20 > Preference sub-TLV > 6 > Binding SID sub-TLV > 7 > Segment List sub-TLV > 128 > =20 > =20 > Cheers, > =20 > Gaurav > =20 > From: Idr on behalf of "John G. Scudder" = > Date: Friday, October 6, 2017 at 5:50 AM > To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > Cc: "idr@ietf.org" , "shares@ndzh.com" > Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for = draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy > =20 > On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > wrote: >> [Les:] It is quite useful I think to point out this fact - but I fail = to see how it is relevant to the early allocation decision. Given that = we know that these early codepoints are not available, I do not see that = delaying early allocation helps in any way. If there are implementations = that used these unassigned codepoints, the sooner we assign values the = sooner these implementations can be updated to use values which will be = interoperable - so if anything the facts argue that we should accelerate = early allocation - not delay it. >=20 > =20 > That is a fine position to take and consistent with what I tried to = express (whether it came through clearly or not). > =20 > Thanks, > =20 > --John --Apple-Mail=_59246078-27D7-4FD0-8FED-C563E9BF901B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi Gaurav,

This thread is exactly to discuss the proposed early = allocation for those sub-TLVs. However I'm a little confused (or perhaps = concerned) by your note, since you list explicit values that aren't = available. As you can see if you consult the IANA registry (https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.= xhtml#tunnel-sub-tlvs) both 6 and 7 have already been allocated. 128 = is currently unallocated and I see no reason that preference couldn't be = satisfied, but I don't think the requests for 6 and 7 can be.

I would anticipate IANA = would allocate the first two unused values for Preference and Binding = SID.

As for = when it will be done, the discussion period will close this coming = Tuesday, October 10. Assuming no blocking objections are raised, I'll = forward the request to the AD and IANA. They've usually been able to = process such requests within a few days, so it's possible the values = will be allocated before end of next week. Of course I'll keep the list = posted about progress.

--John

On = Oct 6, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Gaurav Dawra (gdawra) <gdawra@cisco.com> = wrote:

John,
 
+1
 
We would like to request for allocation for following Sub-TLV = to be. Pls let us know when the allocation is done.
 
Preference sub-TLV
6
Binding SID = sub-TLV
7
Segment List = sub-TLV
128
 
 
Cheers,
 
Gaurav
 
From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "John G. Scudder" = <jgs@juniper.net>
Date: Friday, October 6, 2017 = at 5:50 AM
To: "Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "shares@ndzh.com" <shares@ndzh.com>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Early = allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy
 
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:53 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> = wrote:
[Les:] It is quite useful I think to point out this fact - = but I fail to see how it is relevant to the early allocation decision. =  Given that we know that these early codepoints are not available, = I do not see that delaying early allocation helps in any way. If there = are implementations that used these unassigned codepoints, the sooner we = assign values the sooner these implementations can be updated to use = values which will be interoperable - so if anything the facts argue that = we should accelerate early allocation - not delay it.
 
That is a fine position to take and = consistent with what I tried to express (whether it came through clearly = or not).
 
Thanks,
 
--John

= --Apple-Mail=_59246078-27D7-4FD0-8FED-C563E9BF901B-- From nobody Fri Oct 6 14:06:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1F61330BF for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:06:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tDSUM9R3e_uw for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEA301330AF for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 14:06:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=720; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1507323997; x=1508533597; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=NkW3OVOUpSui1ai5O42Zxkr+xoJSCJtL9jIjQ2BFpd4=; b=NGi/RVNW1ye2RO3zCMPASHR2pM3JIxalMZHsVpqz9eMJvoB2OcFMzKbS 43PNILhfOgvRL51Ab3WLGEfIheohDNrM/DiRTBM1P1gYs/ZkMam69J20K qlLfYoU6k7rFZEF6CC/JGQnvUTlvqHmQ1meLWf0V/0OzyWko37N4+fkbI k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C7AAAK8NdZ/4cNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg11kbicHg3OKH49qgVSWUQ6CBAolhRYchAY/GAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohR0lEUUSARYMAiYCBDAVEgQBDYo1EKUGgieLNAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBARgFgQ6CH4ICgVGBaisLhz+DSy+CMgWhMwKHXI0HgXsZhW+LB5UsAhEZAYE?= =?us-ascii?q?4AR84gQ54FVsBhwp2AYgsgRABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,484,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="294183574" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Oct 2017 21:06:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v96L6SFr009301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 21:06:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:06:27 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-005.cisco.com ([173.36.7.15]) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com ([173.36.7.15]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:06:27 -0500 From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" To: John Scudder , "shares@ndzh.com" CC: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria status? Thread-Index: AQHTPub5SWaZYbfjXE65bwlpMbeXxA== Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 21:06:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4701DECE-0129-4E3F-8096-9631D713C2DA@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.226.233] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <96BC16E4A2EEC64390A68AB516B539C3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria status? 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Scudder" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "shares@ndzh.com" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Jose Liste (jliste)" , "Arjun Sreekantiah (asreekan)" , "Dhanendra Jain (dhjain)" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy Thread-Index: AQHTPwaEPuzOyPOTY0+MI0YZZ0Zy+Q== Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 00:52:14 +0000 Message-ID: <67BCDF33-607F-420D-9BAB-51089FE69C55@cisco.com> References: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <39C033F2-AE72-4FAE-BA6E-6586F3F0AE0B@cisco.com> <4B981052-C09C-4122-B320-9F4EA8A3589F@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <4B981052-C09C-4122-B320-9F4EA8A3589F@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.160.246] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_67BCDF33607F420D9BAB51089FE69C55ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 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tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H1ntTrsb2DyM; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 07:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-02.sil.at (smtp-02-5.sil.at [78.142.186.6]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13994126BF0; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 07:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [46.125.250.8] (helo=[192.168.22.9]) by smtp-02.sil.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1e0pio-0002F8-QM; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 16:04:55 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Martin Bacher In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:04:36 +0200 Cc: Martin Bacher , idr wg , draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org, Robert Raszuk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5853AA0A-8D93-457E-8CB1-DEA927C0A3E3@gmail.com> References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> To: John Scudder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-H-Notify: Remote host 46.125.250.8 incorrectly presented itself as [192.168.22.9] X-Scan-Signature: 63fb4d616f6de0b67668222d3dea4bb5 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 14:05:02 -0000 I am also not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Martin > Am 06.10.2017 um 20:24 schrieb Robert Raszuk : >=20 > I am not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. >=20 > Thx > Robert Raszuk. >=20 > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. >=20 > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John >=20 From nobody Sat Oct 7 07:08:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD31B1342EB; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 07:08:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.835 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.835 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vz9qEz3nWCOy; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 07:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CE75126BF0; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 07:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id b189so14376907wmd.2; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 07:08:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=hxOMOoj18tvUix46bDiBP2GVKw9piOlnz0yaDr5qq/8=; b=SokpYVy/4FWKkz/9VO0tc7IRBIaeYjx2Gm6TN0wQuzjl4ca8MKqJWTuiIma5F8vWi2 rz6OYYIOKRs4AMsJr2hT0EKCmfg8JliNn6FmibYl1z1+xq0GWegnWy/3cO6IRGWsK4Qn dST+OCPD+9reLHFvOvRPzSMzPkGOYwfRNRDdII5EpKe/GKYF5JWwvECfIYWKxCDoviS3 TESApIcGh96YMhfAtdjkuSsdX5UdRdoU39oEpfDdl1clrUTJduLTFJhETsh96Qb8z3xX u6fvPChZV1IHuULfYcqFYP18k5vYxMCIpXCRd3YLMYg3Pqh5s3oqo0K8BwCY6eYDgX+w n1pw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=hxOMOoj18tvUix46bDiBP2GVKw9piOlnz0yaDr5qq/8=; b=drlhecc9HLRAvtZoU37YAVylPge1l9NPx07Xrc5P6BfHWLCjNr3cQpqN1s38S5H6aG rAfjbSIDXjIWgCkuqACG2x7EXUuwE3kFlk0ue3/z+P3Lu+n2//6ia2zcNU+h6Ih2HWdM 1M09eWCn30F0QDxgyLPHJPlYDcDcuQHUm/6lTJzcKYVtHpKDHf00+E7OwABmez0V5a7V pUVIEGoTgjhzBEaPz1js6dxr/wKlpYUkXRKAGweWTw0mq/K3zIfRMrAmq//Ax9slINw+ McMJwIE8dhnN5hQPG/oE+2XzxxvqZ7PeHENHPVLq+hl6CW86AsSVMy5PbvrOr3CtE4s9 2fWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaX2f1xXkbPOdCQYhrSBuEc7cASWUu9Hic3YhfsA9jcA8IDci6zP cpnu3CI0mn8sNKkT3iPkOiA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDUww8qn1KBNZey9JVEpGsbW9hnxd6VAIF2kkRvfhKEf9+6+vDywSaFEQ+Naw26KL4/jrwDwA== X-Received: by 10.223.187.74 with SMTP id x10mr5238160wrg.89.1507385278752; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 07:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.22.9] ([46.125.250.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n57sm3393066wrn.29.2017.10.07.07.07.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Oct 2017 07:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Martin Bacher In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:07:56 +0200 Cc: Martin Bacher , idr wg , draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org, Robert Raszuk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> To: John Scudder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 14:08:02 -0000 I am also not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Martin > Am 06.10.2017 um 20:24 schrieb Robert Raszuk : >=20 > I am not aware about any IPR associated with = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. >=20 > Thx > Robert Raszuk. >=20 > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:39 PM, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. >=20 > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John >=20 From nobody Sat Oct 7 08:45:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6CF13492C; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 08:45:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.645 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.645 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OTwg852GDWfQ; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 08:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 428E0134939; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 08:45:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=184.157.82.118; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'John Scudder'" , Cc: References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:45:33 -0400 Message-ID: <01b101d33f83$5034f570$f09ee050$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFKnQIbMa8n7kaWXWlYZ5VHPyzvc6PpzGEA Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 15:45:42 -0000 I know of no IPR related to this draft as a co-author. I believe this draft is ready for publication. Sue Hares -----Original Message----- From: John Scudder [mailto:jgs@juniper.net] Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 1:39 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Hi All, A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017. Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Thanks, --John From nobody Sun Oct 8 22:34:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A59134910 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 22:34:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LOTprHbzdtQ2 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 22:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-f200.google.com (mail-ua0-f200.google.com [209.85.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99AD2134975 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 22:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-f200.google.com with SMTP id 88so15680575uar.16 for ; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 22:34:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=3LGrWs3acQHh12eAeqHyB7RPMxC0xBQ29FkS8IQeD1k=; b=V0j3GXW79xQTkmoXzOlO4o6WKTYR1n/3KDkGJd+qr+qpJQqXJMiJtLwg+kAvgV/FMo Fi/pqJOTfbybskJpMVC2bzS9rcTqIgr5yOAoBjPJp17IoHr4QPMJCt69Ah9N3uqP0afg jEGlU2j6wNzINkQEgce74p8LQQLbp6ISBxAXNfmwwHhsj77Gw8lsZKs37g+eRiYR+I4H Vh4tzhVZ1lcifszkqvNG+/Sca2bwpz0URJwR37y7k7CvBkrxi9GUyTJmokFdAQPWzKIK vaPthRtnrMEVqgPcfPln1tO2gI+O0E6YyCMPyp6D9sW2uKDoLVUBtECX6uoFN53gsCT2 4x+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaW7Rc2xXedLYvU/l8thny2iDNiOvkJj3AKv0KqEPxG0AEU4fHAu 60uJ/3ipjqN+UJVZ7VLzgKydvu52DAqH03fxPBI11nbvSEz+nHG4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAOW8ATIfc9gx5+aeEp82zbAqlijHqYe2b1hyq/EGgczNHg7scTWLTqHsXVIXYNwOyhc5Ak2MlSH2tKNjccj24MSF4nBqDsLQ== X-Received: by 10.107.97.26 with SMTP id v26mr5114156iob.22.1507527286285; Sun, 08 Oct 2017 22:34:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.244.22 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 07:38:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 20:08:50 +0530 Message-ID: From: Nandan Saha To: stefano previdi Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cef9e97428d055ae1ccbb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 05:34:51 -0000 --f403045cef9e97428d055ae1ccbb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Some more questions / comments 1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present in the Tunnel encap tlv. Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for acceptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end point isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the NLRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be done only if both color and remote end point are present. 2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs in the tunnel encap tlv. The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have to make sure it matches the NLRI? 3. What should be the behavior when a sub tlv in the tunnel encap attribute is malformed? Should it follow the error handling defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#section-11 4. This draft says that the remote end point MAY be present, but draft-ietf-dr-tunnel-encaps seems to imply that it is a MUST. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#section-3.1 says <<< If the Remote Endpoint sub-TLV is malformed, the TLV containing it is also considered to be malformed, and the entire TLV MUST be ignored. >>> Later in section 11, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#section-11 <<< A TLV that does not contain exactly one Remote Endpoint sub-TLV MUST be treated as if it contained a malformed Remote Endpoint sub-TLV. >>> To me this looks like a tunnel end point TLV MUST have a valid remote endpoint sub-tlv. Can this draft make it clear that it is overriding this requirement of draft-idr-tunnel-encaps? 5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling. In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence is <<< If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supporting this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of [RFC7606] >>> Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is <<< A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST trigger a reset of the BGP session >>> Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdraw in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot parse it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate. Thanks, Nandan On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Nandan Saha wrote: > Hello again, > I had a couple of further questions / clarifications. > 1. Binding SID Sub tlv encoding: > Please confirm that the BSID Sub-tlv with length =3D 6 (4 octet SID) > contains the MPLS label in the lower 20 bits. > Btw, is a Binding SID always a full label and never an index? It's not > mentioned so explicitly in draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-0= 1 > > 2. How to treat received weight sub-tlv with weight=3D0 ? > If we plug weight =3D 0 in the formula in section 7.1 of the SR TE draft, > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment- > routing-policy-01#section-7.1, then we end up with 0/Sw, so the segment > list won't get any traffic (essentially the segment list isn't present). > To me a weight =3D 0 seems useless and if we allow it we will get into so= me > strange corner cases, like if the policy has only one segment list, but i= ts > weight is 0, should it then be treated as an unacceptable policy and > treat-as-withdraw? > It would be simpler to either limit the weight to be > 0 and if 0 is > received treat it as if no weight was received. Does that make sense? > Any thoughts on this? > > Thanks, > Nandan > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Nandan Saha wrote: > >> Thank you Stefano for clarifying. >> >> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:12 PM, stefano previdi >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Nandan, >>> >>> sorry for being late. See below. >>> >>> >>> > On Jul 3, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Nandan Saha wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello! >>> > >>> > I have some questions on the NLRI encoding. >>> > 1. Can the value of NLRI length be less than 96 for IPv4 AFI and less >>> > than 192 for IPv6 AFI? IOW, can it be less than full mask length for >>> > the end point address? >>> >>> no. >>> >>> >>> > 2. If the answer to (1) is "yes", then what is the rationale for >>> > keeping the end point address field of the NLRI fixed length? (4 or 1= 6 >>> > bytes depending on AFI). Should the end point become variable length >>> > like the NLRI encoding defined in RFC4760? >>> > 3. If the answer to (1) is "no", how are summary addresses to be >>> represented? >>> >>> >>> there=E2=80=99s no such concept of =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D fo= r the endpoint encoding. >>> The draft is going to be updated and the term =E2=80=9Csummary address= =E2=80=9D will be >>> removed from the endpoint filed description. Sorry for the confusiuon. >>> >>> >>> > Another question which is unrelated to the changes in version 7 of th= e >>> draft. >>> > Section "4.2.1. Acceptance of an SR Policy NLRI" says >>> > " If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supporting >>> > this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be >>> > malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of [RFC7606= ] >>> > " >>> > It's not clear to me how a receiver can extract a valid route from a >>> > malformed NLRI. >>> >>> >>> you just have to check the nlri length. >>> >>> >>> > The "treat-as-withdraw" can be applied if the NLRI is >>> > well formed but some other attributes are malformed, which seems to b= e >>> > implied by the following line at the end of the subsection >>> > "A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUS= T >>> > trigger a reset of the BGP session.=E2=80=9D >>> >>> >>> that is correct. >>> >>> s. >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Thank you! >>> > Best regards, >>> > Nandan >>> > >>> > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:30 AM, wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. >>> >> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF. >>> >> >>> >> Title : Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP >>> >> Authors : Stefano Previdi >>> >> Clarence Filsfils >>> >> Paul Mattes >>> >> Eric Rosen >>> >> Steven Lin >>> >> Filename : draft-previdi-idr-segment-rout >>> ing-te-policy-07.txt >>> >> Pages : 30 >>> >> Date : 2017-06-23 >>> >> >>> >> Abstract: >>> >> This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI in order to >>> >> advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy (SR Policy)= . >>> >> An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of one or more >>> >> segment lists. The headend of an SR Policy may learn multiple >>> >> candidate paths for an SR Policy. Candidate paths may be learned >>> via >>> >> a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, PCEP, or BGP= . >>> >> This document specifies the way in which BGP may be used to >>> >> distribute candidate paths. New sub-TLVs for the Tunnel >>> >> Encapsulation Attribute are defined. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-idr-segment-r >>> outing-te-policy/ >>> >> >>> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routin >>> g-te-policy-07 >>> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-previdi-idr-segm >>> ent-routing-te-policy-07 >>> >> >>> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-idr-segment- >>> routing-te-policy-07 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >>> >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >> >>> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Idr mailing list >>> >> Idr@ietf.org >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Idr mailing list >>> > Idr@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> >>> >> > --f403045cef9e97428d055ae1ccbb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Some more questions / comments

1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is pres= ent in the Tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 Should the match on either co= lor or remote end point be done for acceptance? For example the color sub-t= lv is present, but the remote end point isn't. So the color of the colo= r sub-tlv must match the color in the NLRI. Or should the condition for mat= ching of color / remote end point be done only if both color and remote end= point are present.

2. What is the rationale for i= ncluding remote end point / color sub tlvs in the tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an opti= on to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then h= ave to make sure it matches the NLRI?

3. What shou= ld be the behavior when a sub tlv in the tunnel encap attribute is malforme= d?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Should it follow the error handling defined in=C2= =A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07#sect= ion-11

4. This draft says that the remote end = point MAY be present, but draft-ietf-dr-tunnel-encaps seems to imply that i= t is a MUST.
<<&= lt;
If the Remote Endpoint sub-TLV is malformed, the TLV con= taining it is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0also considered to be malformed, and t= he entire TLV MUST be ignored.
>>>
<<<
A TLV th= at does not contain exactly one Remote Endpoint sub-TLV MUST
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0be treated as if it contained a malformed Remote Endpoint sub-TLV= .
>>>
To me this looks like a tunnel end= point TLV MUST have a valid remote endpoint sub-tlv. Can this draft make i= t clear that it is overriding this requirement of draft-idr-tunnel-encaps?<= br>

5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI hand= ling.
In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point'= s 2nd sentence is=C2=A0
<<<
If the NLRI i= s not one of the legal lengths, a router
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sup= porting this document and that imports the route MUST consider
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-w= ithdraw" strategy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of [RFC7606]
>>>
Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 = is
<<<
A unacceptable SR Policy update th= at has an invalid NLRI portion MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger a reset = of the BGP session
>>>
Can the draft be = updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdraw in the first st= atement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot parse it; and also b= ecause it conflicts with the 2nd mandate.

Than= ks,
Nandan

On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Nandan Saha <nandan@ari= sta.com> wrote:
Hello again,
=C2=A0I had a couple of further questions / clarific= ations.
1. Binding SID Sub tlv encoding:
=C2=A0Please c= onfirm that the BSID Sub-tlv with length =3D 6 (4 octet SID) contains the M= PLS label in the lower 20 bits.
Btw, is a Binding SID always = a full label and never an index? It's not mentioned so explicitly in=C2= =A0draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01

2. How to treat received weight sub-tlv with weight=3D0 ?
I= f we plug weight =3D 0 in the formula in section 7.1 of the SR TE draft, https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-01#section-7.1, then w= e end up with 0/Sw, so the segment list won't get any traffic (essentia= lly the segment list isn't present).=C2=A0
To me a weight =3D= 0 seems useless and if we allow it we will get into some strange corner ca= ses, like if the policy has only one segment list, but its weight is 0, sho= uld it then be treated as an unacceptable policy and treat-as-withdraw?
=
It would be simpler to either limit the weight to be > 0 and = if 0 is received treat it as if no weight was received. Does that make sens= e?
Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Nandan

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM= , Nandan Saha <nandan@arista.com> wrote:
Thank you Stefano for clarifying.=C2=A0

On Mon, = Jul 17, 2017 at 6:12 PM, stefano previdi <stefano@previdi.net> wrote:
Hi Nandan,

sorry for being late. See below.


> On Jul 3, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Nandan Saha <nandan@arista.com> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have some questions on the NLRI encoding.
> 1. Can the value of NLRI length be less than 96 for IPv4 AFI and less<= br> > than 192 for IPv6 AFI? IOW, can it be less than full mask length for > the end point address?

no.


> 2. If the answer to (1) is "yes", then what is the rationale= for
> keeping the end point address field of the NLRI fixed length? (4 or 16=
> bytes depending on AFI). Should the end point become variable length > like the NLRI encoding defined in RFC4760?
> 3. If the answer to (1) is "no", how are summary addresses t= o be represented?


there=E2=80=99s no such concept of =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D= for the endpoint encoding. The draft is going to be updated and the term = =E2=80=9Csummary address=E2=80=9D will be removed from the endpoint filed d= escription. Sorry for the confusiuon.


> Another question which is unrelated to the changes in version 7 of the= draft.
> Section "4.2.1. Acceptance of an SR Policy NLRI" says
> " If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router supportin= g
> this document and that imports the route MUST consider it to be
> malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy of= [RFC7606]
> "
> It's not clear to me how a receiver can extract a valid route from= a
> malformed NLRI.


you just have to check the nlri length.


> The "treat-as-withdraw" can be applied if the NLRI is
> well formed but some other attributes are malformed, which seems to be=
> implied by the following line at the end of the subsection
> "A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion= MUST
> trigger a reset of the BGP session.=E2=80=9D


that is correct.

s.


>
> Thank you!
> Best regards,
> Nandan
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:30 AM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts= directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing of the IETF.=
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0: Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0: Stefano Previdi
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarence Filsfils
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Paul Mattes
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Eric Rosen
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Steven Lin
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : d= raft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0: 30
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 : 2017-06-23
>>
>> Abstract:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI i= n order to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy= (SR Policy).
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of= one or more
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0segment lists.=C2=A0 The headend of an SR Policy may l= earn multiple
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0candidate paths for an SR Policy.=C2=A0 Candidate path= s may be learned via
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, = PCEP, or BGP.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document specifies the way in which BGP may be us= ed to
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribute candidate paths.=C2=A0 New sub-TLVs for the= Tunnel
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Encapsulation Attribute are defined.
>>
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy/
>>
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07
>> https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-= te-policy-07
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://w= ww.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-p= olicy-07
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr=
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr




--f403045cef9e97428d055ae1ccbb-- From nobody Sun Oct 8 23:44:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D4D134654; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 23:44:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F_j7SCruVvxb; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 23:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93F3F126CB6; Sun, 8 Oct 2017 23:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 0CF83C0116; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:44:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.66]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E0E7B180050; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:44:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06]) by OPEXCLILMA1.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::95e2:eb4b:3053:fabf%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:44:23 +0200 From: To: John Scudder CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Thread-Index: AQHTPsjTF6lWwcYeFESkAWHJ1ICBvqLbFhFg Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 06:44:22 +0000 Message-ID: <7482_1507531463_59DB1AC7_7482_13_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A478A5C99@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 06:44:27 -0000 Hi John, > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Scudder > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:30 PM >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We = will stagger the WGLCs > somewhat.) >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-opti= mal-route-reflection-14. > Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot adv= ance the draft without > participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October= 20, 2017. >=20 > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. I'm not aware of IPR. Thanks, Regards, --Bruno =20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-= 14 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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From nobody Mon Oct 9 01:09:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECDF134C1E; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:09:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id igdHlMeguf4Q; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B898134BAF; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EFD59C01BB; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:09:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.62]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D245E180063; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:09:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from l-fipglop (10.168.234.2) by OPEXCLILM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.31.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.361.1; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:09:45 +0200 Message-ID: <18323_1507536585_59DB2EC9_18323_157_1_1507536584.14240.10.camel@orange.com> From: To: John Scudder , CC: , Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:09:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Orange S.A. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.26.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.168.234.2] Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=A0=3A_=5Bbess=5D_WGLC_for_draft-ietf-idr-?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tunnel-encaps-07?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:09:49 -0000 Support. -Thomas John Scudder, 2017-10-06 14:39: > [resending with corrected draft alias in cc, sorry about that] > > Hi All, > > A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr- > tunnel-encaps-07. Please reply to the list with your comments. As > usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the > group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017. > > We previously had a WGLC for version -04, https://www.ietf.org/mail-a > rchive/web/idr/current/msg18151.html, which failed to achieve > consensus largely due to lack of participation. Since then there have > been several revisions to the document and active discussion, so I > hope we'll have better engagement this time and will be able to > conclude this WGLC. I especially hope we can proceed forward since > drafts in both OSPF and BESS normatively reference this draft, for > this reason I've cc'd both the OSPF and BESS mailing lists. > > The authors have already confirmed IPR during the previous last call, > so we won't require that again. Of course, if there have been any > changes to IPR status since -04, please do make the necessary > disclosures. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07 > > Thanks, > > --John > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Mon Oct 9 01:11:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402E0134C2E for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:11:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nbwTjL6vGkos for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f45.google.com (mail-wm0-f45.google.com [74.125.82.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBB0A134C28 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-f45.google.com with SMTP id i124so19994401wmf.3 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=pFezKuszk9tEqsgLbECUxfvUaahvky34lV2A3BeF9Yo=; b=nI60G8kKWhryBRMpy09lyo6AUABSRdXPXry/ntVw5aq+E2vkDFcMzJiYHBfeF5dmCu MkBPbAthET0HZkAtQJpEZ+clhfi+5vQQifnYIXvfoGigGFNd1XbTO0+pX1IsvG/b3DL/ Mb2AeOX4fzabBnA0tp7BIhLVyIZZQhNDWmcMpnxK5J3THDF8hQ/dDBJeq6hBjguzh2IW 85dEte9rB/nSvIq5DwkG8iX38Hzj6m9y6GQTdpoLtpLivZr7pjcywvAmGYOvHrz9noPH ZsGz5oKOsaWENROgum6tR+KHGStGcMsL3SENxQrYgKZFZnIzwDIta0+DwBTS35U0E/cE eigw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaW1+OaqMUkVwSoCI1Cp5egiBLaHMiJqB/IoGVngdUt9uEp0UEz+ 5LTNkePDwLPZvr2o8YcvCo+ciyqw3Hc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDzhHOmS+k4w/uJ+AjPr/PeGgNwYxA5I2Gc0SxHgZD/urE9x8bJKg+xiPlLpzT9ekG9iFdZbA== X-Received: by 10.80.144.59 with SMTP id b56mr12134786eda.127.1507536701739; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hanna.meerval.net. [192.147.168.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3sm5808367edv.50.2017.10.09.01.11.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:11:40 +0200 From: Job Snijders To: John Scudder , ytti@ntt.net Cc: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170912 (1.9.0) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:11:45 -0000 Dear all, On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 05:30:16PM +0000, John Scudder wrote: > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. > We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.) > > A working group last call has been requested for > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the > list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft > without participation from the group. Please get your comments in > before October 20, 2017. I'd like to thank the authors for their hard work on this document. ORR is a very clever improvement for deployment scenarios with centralized route reflection. Kudos! I have one remark at this point, I think the document would benefit from an "Implementation Considerations" section or at least a clarification on route recursion. We've come across a number of implementations where there either minute or quite large differences in how the route reflector choose the best path on behalf of the client. One particular implementation stood out because the effective 'route selection behalf of the client' was very different from what the client would've chosen itself (at least in our topology). Let's consider the following: we have BGP prefix 192.0.2.0/24 with BGP next-hop of 198.51.100.101, 198.51.100.101 recurses to IGP next-hop 203.0.113.203, which has metric value of 1000. In a scenario without route reflection the client will observe that the IGP cost to 198.51.100.101 is 1000. Note that the 198.51.100.101 BGP next-hop is not present in the IGP. With Optimal Route reflection (as user) I would assume the route reflector recurses similarly as the client would, and takes into consideration that from the client's point-of-view the metric to 203.0.113.203 is 1000 because of the recursion from BGP next-hop to IGP next-hop. We should not end up in a situation where the route-reflector does not offer a path for 192.0.2.0/24 to the client if the next-hop was not found in the IGP. It may be good to emphasize the need to do full route recursion from the ORR client's point-of-view. Perhaps add this somewhere: "If the next-hop is not found in the IGP, the route reflector MUST recursively lookup the next-hop until an IGP next-hop is found." However, herein lies the crux, we can only hope that the route-reflector and the client have a similar enough routing table in which route recursion will give the same result. At least one vendor thought "if the next-hop is not in the IGP we'll simply not offer that path", but I suspect that oftentimes errs to the side of breakage and I'd prefer "a path is better than no path". Kind regards, Job From nobody Mon Oct 9 01:12:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A364D134C34; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:12:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HpwWWYBC28ig; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22f.google.com (mail-oi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A56F6134C2E; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id f3so38491680oia.2; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:11:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+kr03XpEzAmpSnnaN1rG8UVbS0ho6X0owlLNpDWJ/RU=; b=CwcjV2MQaKaoBDxgSzm8/4GAsuYAZOXRuuZpy3x+Rx5oX1EXVQzftt3Uvbug4YKeIL 0Rdr4/S5RQKsUuMIffFRLskkzGSd+QVTAaAyBMP6YPZAnTCLhSEs08gr7J7+II7lnX+2 XPLlK1mxI1Jwq/6E6UOxUy2cl63gqbK7YlLznAwyXU9XimFADyn2+SrFF+t9RntKVu2A lT2mrIcyWcNFNskbNc+tvwga6SaLEvBAIh62rO25UCVlV/Nc/U5nf969AZbo2qGH9xDU I0AlPronnG5jNOim2x16q4KK7DDCXARHeEOoKt4RH+gC8rHZU19IN8OgIEor10xnzcFL jD0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+kr03XpEzAmpSnnaN1rG8UVbS0ho6X0owlLNpDWJ/RU=; b=cqV4ZU99aWLND+n2YSSoeTewADiVv/PskfAnFPkkEK2v87O9Lzpw3L8r9ok2O59F7j IRDQiURSMqfzXMo65PiJSJBZKIQHDB6OVL6YCVTHqywWOl0Bf/d4RjRHeTlDJxHQPSVW 6JObRmVWfNQX0u7ypzQCNkImrv5jK47IMyHLWxZZ0DeCXZ+1QUgaAC8FzswEeUscchKN Iy3UZViQD/YexhG9j2YZe2I06F0SjqmXQaB7UoXvgQq8qy78dRQJ8WMyFl+YX7pBVk0d YOn3cxehFvkjEYJA3FmxOCV9+VOdxbunZuukeurZ93YnDfAzTTTeWocqt5ta4hoFFlIk WGjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUZCpmPTZiavJ7unFtoVlnXKig+DNj3IRZDgu7N1FRpoFyjUKFQ dD/FXVPVaPVYAR7mBOOG5Yv/spgr X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCyyW7NmkJMEwpS02B6KSX5fD374Ri8nj325i/+BRzqv+YXXPbus7g8S6+81g0kU96AIsX/Og== X-Received: by 10.202.54.65 with SMTP id d62mr5084414oia.142.1507536716959; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [100.170.246.67] ([172.56.7.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m88sm4088181otm.43.2017.10.09.01.11.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 01:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15A403) In-Reply-To: <18323_1507536585_59DB2EC9_18323_157_1_1507536584.14240.10.camel@orange.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:11:54 +0200 Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps@ietf.org, bess@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0208690D-C8BA-4036-923B-79B7582CA801@gmail.com> References: <18323_1507536585_59DB2EC9_18323_157_1_1507536584.14240.10.camel@orange.com> To: John Scudder Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] =?iso8859-5?q?=5Bbess=5D_Re=A0=3A__WGLC_for_draft-ietf-idr?= =?iso8859-5?q?-tunnel-encaps-07?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:12:01 -0000 Support Regards, Jeff >=20 > John Scudder, 2017-10-06 14:39: >> [resending with corrected draft alias in cc, sorry about that] >>=20 >> Hi All, >>=20 >> A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr- >> tunnel-encaps-07. Please reply to the list with your comments. As >> usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the >> group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017. >>=20 >> We previously had a WGLC for version -04, https://www.ietf.org/mail-a >> rchive/web/idr/current/msg18151.html, which failed to achieve >> consensus largely due to lack of participation. Since then there have >> been several revisions to the document and active discussion, so I >> hope we'll have better engagement this time and will be able to >> conclude this WGLC. I especially hope we can proceed forward since >> drafts in both OSPF and BESS normatively reference this draft, for >> this reason I've cc'd both the OSPF and BESS mailing lists. >>=20 >> The authors have already confirmed IPR during the previous last call, >> so we won't require that again. Of course, if there have been any >> changes to IPR status since -04, please do make the necessary >> disclosures. >>=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07 >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> --John >> _______________________________________________ >> BESS mailing list >> BESS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess >=20 > __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confide= ntielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez rec= u ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages e= lectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou= falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged in= formation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and del= ete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been= modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess From Erik.Aman@teliacompany.com Mon Oct 9 01:53:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF450134DB3 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 01:53:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VsfyUxvjEe0Y for ; 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a="12221050" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,499,1500930000"; d="scan'208";a="12221050" Received: from srv5008094.bro.telia.se (HELO EXCAHT10TSIVZ2.tcad.telia.se) ([131.115.8.94]) by smtp.cm.sonera.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 09 Oct 2017 11:53:46 +0300 Received: from EXMB03TSIVZ2.tcad.telia.se ([fe80::3de9:6ea2:c9a9:ccfd]) by EXCAHT10TSIVZ2.tcad.telia.se ([131.115.8.94]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 10:53:44 +0200 From: To: CC: Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Thread-Index: AQHTPsjUKzbeNyf9lkK+n269jPo6fKLbOTCQ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:53:43 +0000 Message-ID: <5689EC84343DDB47A0DCD74D06DEDE8946469185@exmb03tsivz2.tcad.telia.se> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.81.35.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:56:58 -0000 I'm not aware of any IPR related to this draft. Regards, Erik =C5man -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Scudder Sent: den 6 oktober 2017 19:30 To: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Hi All, (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We wil= l stagger the WGLCs somewhat.) A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal= -route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual= note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the group. Ple= ase get your comments in before October 20, 2017. Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Thanks, --John _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Mon Oct 9 07:25:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2DE1321AC for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wi6T_yvU8xRF for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C5CA1344D8 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id t69so23045810wmt.2 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:25:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=GTHIop8DdKwizaKvz/hAlspZuGZ6luAkQmm4uY72nIU=; b=lF+4dwCNJdQ7pz9Ys0xluuyZlPXfks7OWrmBwFLxCLh2DL2NY1Kt76Yu25DsVbaueT ErGZHfUgheGEfWnktBz3WGpm3+gfiBhihj+pNLYf7fYVyQPP+Z6f9mzq+fRkBUvSipbs 1pTcbzSg+FqG191GDraVq7LsbX2r+L9zSKAn+CCdrzIjIRzCTWUVzcSQVzuMpbfyInvs pHkApDOMIQiJAS4lf/BBufenivmdtsfvjA1o+UbrkMp93nZM0Nv4wC7EPTGsv3zstTxE DfLFcXyVqqDTbKg5XIBj4Houevwr2eahyRcy3b/thiCvEFZV9Cl7SBvM/hKtcJrf6Ngq PnMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GTHIop8DdKwizaKvz/hAlspZuGZ6luAkQmm4uY72nIU=; b=kVZPZzYyERbdfuZ0ErxbuXmUjs6qo10p+dOwyTOQv9AVUzwFxvHpYqDx64uXhsXS9H UAeT5DM6f/nf0bT8VU21YsEMzSJlEqujM+MeXOQ82TdRHtX7Yb98sA9HTRgg1Rl77JZ2 jBF5P0VLy5yIddCOqgW8A9LD9Thoh8mi0LHCTmyasN3aOGyhzifvJ6/UvkSB79pP31IM +SzcbX/9mIyHitGUcO0lXAzyhO/1mmY1Ftsu3eDI7cQABpDeAKc9P7xr56LlmoucIQW3 tcS3U6s8Pv5byKpqJrkPcDvunChId2BL/AfsE/ibywZfFuCFHPXwhB1JBnblq/60p1S3 8hzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXobEi1j04/JdHjFHgR9N76U6L6eI+zRc44/pdxr7L6BVNKp4g5 InsUQzW77yod3kLSkL1QMocc+3oPHDtQbNcpXH1r++cT X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDsPgpD2J1ov9RmbiQ+ALbG5jCmvvNuJpyYOd16cLReEF8mHd06JF0pqw8qB9MeK+7EP6nex//PUvHuv1LiloM= X-Received: by 10.28.95.10 with SMTP id t10mr8118823wmb.72.1507559128602; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 07:25:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:25:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 16:25:27 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: HbmKQ2qOLrtpKq8JzZE5RtrLUJk Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: John Scudder , ytti@ntt.net, idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148fb0a569b0f055b1df6a2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:25:43 -0000 --001a1148fb0a569b0f055b1df6a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Job, In general I agree that implementations should be consistent in their behaviour, but the reality is that they are now. But let's focus on your observation for a moment ... With that few questions come up: 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with ORR ? 2. Can you send output from both ORR context and client for: show (ip) route 192.0.2.0 det show (ip) route 198.51.100.101 det show (ip) route 203.0.113.203 det The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to the child. When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific next hop which is being queried. Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may very likely result in number of implementations to become non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy to update the NH cost draft and progress it. Kind regards, Robert. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Job Snijders wrote: > Dear all, > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 05:30:16PM +0000, John Scudder wrote: > > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. > > We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.) > > > > A working group last call has been requested for > > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the > > list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft > > without participation from the group. Please get your comments in > > before October 20, 2017. > > I'd like to thank the authors for their hard work on this document. ORR > is a very clever improvement for deployment scenarios with centralized > route reflection. Kudos! > > I have one remark at this point, I think the document would benefit from > an "Implementation Considerations" section or at least a clarification > on route recursion. > > We've come across a number of implementations where there either minute > or quite large differences in how the route reflector choose the best > path on behalf of the client. One particular implementation stood out > because the effective 'route selection behalf of the client' was > very different from what the client would've chosen itself (at least in > our topology). > > Let's consider the following: we have BGP prefix 192.0.2.0/24 with BGP > next-hop of 198.51.100.101, 198.51.100.101 recurses to IGP next-hop > 203.0.113.203, which has metric value of 1000. In a scenario without > route reflection the client will observe that the IGP cost to > 198.51.100.101 is 1000. Note that the 198.51.100.101 BGP next-hop is not > present in the IGP. > > With Optimal Route reflection (as user) I would assume the route > reflector recurses similarly as the client would, and takes into > consideration that from the client's point-of-view the metric to > 203.0.113.203 is 1000 because of the recursion from BGP next-hop to IGP > next-hop. We should not end up in a situation where the route-reflector > does not offer a path for 192.0.2.0/24 to the client if the next-hop was > not found in the IGP. > > It may be good to emphasize the need to do full route recursion from the > ORR client's point-of-view. Perhaps add this somewhere: > > "If the next-hop is not found in the IGP, the route reflector MUST > recursively lookup the next-hop until an IGP next-hop is found." > > However, herein lies the crux, we can only hope that the route-reflector > and the client have a similar enough routing table in which route > recursion will give the same result. At least one vendor thought "if the > next-hop is not in the IGP we'll simply not offer that path", but I > suspect that oftentimes errs to the side of breakage and I'd prefer "a > path is better than no path". > > Kind regards, > > Job > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a1148fb0a569b0f055b1df6a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Job,

In general I agree that implementations should be con= sistent in their behaviour, but the reality is that they are now. But let&#= 39;s focus on your observation for a moment ... With that few questions com= e up:

1. Are you usin= g the same implementation on both client and RR with ORR ?

2. Can you send output from both ORR = context and client for:=C2=A0

show (ip) route 192.0.2.0 det
show (ip) ro= ute=C2=A0198.51.100.101 det
s= how (ip) route=C2=A0203= .0.113.203 det

The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation = but to RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to t= he child.=C2=A0

When BGP = registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking (assuming that im= plementation even does that rathere then a single call to RIB) the metric i= t get's is the one attached to the specific next hop which is being que= ried.=C2=A0
Bottom line i= s that mandating suggested text to the current spec may very likely result = in number of implementations to become non-compliant and what is worse the = proper fix may require in some cases complete RIB redesign which is far fro= m BGP and IDR area.=C2=A0

For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to so= lve it via=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-bgp-n= h-cost-02.=C2=A0

If you find vendors buying into your case we will = be more then happy to update the NH cost draft and progress it.=C2=A0

Kind regards,
= Robert.



On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Job Sn= ijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
Dear all,

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 05:30:16PM +0000, John Scudder wrote:
> (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. > We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
>
> A working group last call has been requested for
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to t= he
> list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft
> without participation from the group. Please get your comments in
> before October 20, 2017.

I'd like to thank the authors for their hard work on this docume= nt. ORR
is a very clever improvement for deployment scenarios with centralized
route reflection. Kudos!

I have one remark at this point, I think the document would benefit from an "Implementation Considerations" section or at least a clarific= ation
on route recursion.

We've come across a number of implementations where there either minute=
or quite large differences in how the route reflector choose the best
path on behalf of the client. One particular implementation stood out
because the effective 'route selection behalf of the client' was very different from what the client would've chosen itself (at least in=
our topology).

Let's consider the following: we have BGP prefix 192.0.2.0/24 with BGP next-hop of 198.51.100.101, 198.51.100.101 recurses to IGP next-hop
203.0.113.203, which has metric value of 1000. In a scenario without
route reflection the client will observe that the IGP cost to
198.51.100.101 is 1000. Note that the 198.51.100.101 BGP next-hop is not present in the IGP.

With Optimal Route reflection (as user) I would assume the route
reflector recurses similarly as the client would, and takes into
consideration that from the client's point-of-view the metric to
203.0.113.203 is 1000 because of the recursion from BGP next-hop to IGP
next-hop. We should not end up in a situation where the route-reflector
does not offer a path for 192.0.2.0/24 to the client if the next-hop was
not found in the IGP.

It may be good to emphasize the need to do full route recursion from the ORR client's point-of-view. Perhaps add this somewhere:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "If the next-hop is not found in the IGP, the route refl= ector MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 recursively lookup the next-hop until an IGP next-hop is foun= d."

However, herein lies the crux, we can only hope that the route-reflector and the client have a similar enough routing table in which route
recursion will give the same result. At least one vendor thought "if t= he
next-hop is not in the IGP we'll simply not offer that path", but = I
suspect that oftentimes errs to the side of breakage and I'd prefer &qu= ot;a
path is better than no path".

Kind regards,

Job

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--001a1148fb0a569b0f055b1df6a2-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 08:27:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8790E1345A1 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:27:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v9El59OLz-IP for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f42.google.com (mail-wm0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31591134ED1 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-f42.google.com with SMTP id q124so23603543wmb.0 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:20:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=9xJp4wwhVexWFF9wJkmZACJXn+JzJ4cU8c2fyLzTxCU=; b=neahzL0XJCAu+zqq3RBONrAoAefkHrnCyJk5XwsWyLdcLGjVkVgUP4nvWUT+Xd+u/a XzBEPvb8SigT4YA2y6gt6AnS4sPIJprOA0kolVv3VgGw99tGoebJu5TLtjo8W+iY7kt+ XMgWnQYvfHizrkJ4ezKUyWpir+OCLLYw+UmuPj1IihNpLl6lqYSaroP50XIU1/rRpOxR U7wY+8p2mlzI2cW4CkgWbsgx15cqyD9dRC2VqaIp5a3OLsHJr1AMruwmof+zIoqNJvG7 qKa6XaUE7kKnui3xfsL0LBSmzf//j2sbmdqhQZIi9g7+q0EkGTSPHGgbj6pFWV3JEUWz vODQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU2EelQlnMvplpp9UDYF+thOl60NAkKJ41T2uFjKVjWcY4ePwUv cY1XYKasdoB6If9dONBLyGwmtA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBwxEe9CZajLdVIyRuK5aMyjJo19t56YiuiZ7uCf1OeUMADH5dXBN8nzYAbzZVZYdNaQh5t7g== X-Received: by 10.80.168.33 with SMTP id j30mr13980745edc.64.1507562453323; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([188.206.67.206]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g30sm7731691edb.63.2017.10.09.08.20.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:20:51 +0200 From: Job Snijders To: Robert Raszuk Cc: John Scudder , ytti@ntt.net, idr wg Message-ID: <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 15:27:33 -0000 On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > ORR ? Sometimes. > The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to > the child. No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple oversight that probably would not have happened if the document specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more protocols. > When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking > (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single > call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific > next hop which is being queried. > > Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > very likely result in number of implementations to become > non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some > cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. > > If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > to update the NH cost draft and progress it. I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right place for this. The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change their behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector, before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for blackholing). Kind regards, Job From nobody Mon Oct 9 08:59:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B20D4134612 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QLNJ0iCgqTk1 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F5A6134F3A for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id u138so24879136wmu.4 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=yaq/86uUq4nPXP2Pqs/a/PdLtQT+bsCq4QSivl/OErQ=; b=mCtzMAbckNsPA5NZBaia4kRKNVFPvViqNtrvFLAgVxA/DUKPJpjJ6f8iZlnI+JEdbn V/xDUXWbjzVwcpKNH8RPK7Z7FmYjgIWdk8DLTdFUFBF2JkjiLq7KXyHUWjGl9m8rnI3L wJKHAzXnQdP5VqZDvyThnl+kppgK2djFuPUp1z9VeD5hhggARcWzBerYsCb7spUSnRKp JNyPpRPAcMeyWtDjuMSfNXIfE8gkPGGZS/Pb8A2XhKS9a6Hs1Jzk6muewPx+v+JCZudK EeTT6j44uFaCEYRhLGj4MBhskMR4366dfJuGEaee752n3bzG6IYEKzuyH4d9249pL0TK guOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yaq/86uUq4nPXP2Pqs/a/PdLtQT+bsCq4QSivl/OErQ=; b=EOrdr8BAMn+aLTiuWx9/Q60SkcWzrvma2bF9wYdPp+lbha+rntOalNmPxumcg7VgCY f2vXBZU+xxT+lram93d7LjSZSadqgDYPpvtYNgAe/1zNzOfdgRhUGAS5vU0l0EhMxLGY mfJklmstcGAASjPYEjVqcBr0SC9ohJ5+o5v48hPqJY6CpCe1VUtqoyhKfl20poQ4heFB jyjXnMfSVeh/3nTS4x3ElIFT51rPcdnpw/tf3BQrk+eWVhodPf/+UJE6n31weeE7LbDQ Hj3u6JbfwMu8LnIN7fssWNa9m8dGYFigmdfQcnn3ZEGgreZ0DT3hu9L+b9vCCdi3Ug6g XzFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWls1VCDuhO6oe5st8K4CDn/JIPofdIoDlVuuQyctSzdvCWdUmW sA5DHlWn0nX/hZz46wYTo2lrao6enI56yiAIvs0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QB6S2bTDZMOvfAdfKDJEXgvIpG8LhhBeyjQRkLDl2F/lJhZkCmbEPY7AZIGbjBVOx0qqx2/8U/mAuSC5tSjhXk= X-Received: by 10.223.187.148 with SMTP id q20mr9200852wrg.117.1507564605572; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:56:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 08:56:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 17:56:44 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3R_WQY020xCGLUrb_rsE-9MvETk Message-ID: To: Job Snijders Cc: John Scudder , ytti@ntt.net, idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0820b508ca8b2e055b1f3cb9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 15:59:02 -0000 --089e0820b508ca8b2e055b1f3cb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Job, > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP metric in the scenario of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them. > The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity > which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for blackholing). Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity with the below sentence added to section 4.1: Current text: "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step." New text: "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step. In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level recursion the metric used for given path's comparison (provided implementation supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the final IGP route the N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next hop reachability validation should be based on the state of such IGP route." Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ? The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate such metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed having max metric in such cases ? Thx, R. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > > ORR ? > > Sometimes. > > > The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to > > the child. > > No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor > read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop > may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple > oversight that probably would not have happened if the document > specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more > protocols. > > > When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking > > (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single > > call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific > > next hop which is being queried. > > > > Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > > very likely result in number of implementations to become > > non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some > > cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > > For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via > > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. > > > > If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > > to update the NH cost draft and progress it. > > I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right > place for this. > > The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change their > behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector, > before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released > software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes > operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for > blackholing). > > Kind regards, > > Job > --089e0820b508ca8b2e055b1f3cb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Job,

=
>=C2=A0I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed c= hange.

It would be helpful to hear= from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP metric in the scenario=C2=A0
of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them.=C2=A0

> The fact that they released=C2= =A0sof= tware without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity=C2=A0
=
> which causes=C2=A0operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (wi= th possibility for=C2=A0blackholing).

Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity= with the below sentence
added to section 4.1:

Current text:

<= /div>
   "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made duri=
ng best
   path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step."<=
/pre>

New text:

   "In thi=
s document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best
   path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step.
<= pre class=3D"m_1248082118556363001gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333= px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the scenario of= BGP route's next hop resolving via N level recursion=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the = metric used for=C2=A0given path's comparison (provided implementati= on=C2=A0
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0supports it)=C2=A0should be equal to IGP metric=C2=A0of the final IGP rout= e the=C2=A0
=C2=A0= =C2=A0N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next hop reachability vali= dation=C2=A0
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0should=C2=A0be based on the state of such IGP route."
=

Would WG and yourself be fine with this change= ?=C2=A0

The only problem is what to= do if implementation can not propagate such metric .. should the N-level r= ecursive path be less preferred and assumed having max metric in such cases= ?

Thx,
R.


On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.n= et> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > ORR ?

Sometimes.

> The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to
> the child.

No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor=
read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple
oversight that probably would not have happened if the document
specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more
protocols.

> When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking
> (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single
> call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specif= ic
> next hop which is being queried.
>
> Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > very likely result in number of implementations to become
> non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some
> cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area.

I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change.
> For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02.
>
> If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > to update the NH cost draft and progress it.

I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the = right
place for this.

The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change thei= r
behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector,
before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released
software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for
blackholing).

Kind regards,

Job

--089e0820b508ca8b2e055b1f3cb9-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 11:16:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EC6134765; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kb_LcmnmxKBF; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam03on0134.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.41.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C778133059; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2017 18:16:39.6463 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR05MB2503 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [bess] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 18:16:44 -0000 Support. A truly useful document that has already been used by a multiplic= ity of other drafts. Yours Irrespectively, John > -----Original Message----- > From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Scudder > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 2:39 PM > To: idr@ietf.org > Cc: ospf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps@ietf.org; bess@ietf.org > Subject: [bess] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07 >=20 > [resending with corrected draft alias in cc, sorry about that] >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-en= caps- > 07. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot > advance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your > comments in before October 20, 2017. >=20 > We previously had a WGLC for version -04, > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail- > 2Darchive_web_idr_current_msg18151.html&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Sc > bfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH- > s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3D2lBrJKCsEOnplL1EXFV5g4pIcz_tUOWsuQnWRiHAYf > U&s=3DHfNVHm9qwDABpo8_2P1gNv7RT6xypg1nPM6XNJTOhYI&e=3D , which > failed to achieve consensus largely due to lack of participation. Since t= hen > there have been several revisions to the document and active discussion, = so I > hope we'll have better engagement this time and will be able to conclude = this > WGLC. I especially hope we can proceed forward since drafts in both OSPF = and > BESS normatively reference this draft, for this reason I've cc'd both the= OSPF > and BESS mailing lists. >=20 > The authors have already confirmed IPR during the previous last call, so = we > won't require that again. Of course, if there have been any changes to IP= R > status since -04, please do make the necessary disclosures. >=20 > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > 3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dtunnel-2Dencaps- > 2D07&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH- > s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3D2lBrJKCsEOnplL1EXFV5g4pIcz_tUOWsuQnWRiHAYf > U&s=3Dkqiy1m8WEpHg1ooJCoK2Z3GlDgKuEBX8qyfHZ25J-5c&e=3D >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bess&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbf > h0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DCRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH- > s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=3D2lBrJKCsEOnplL1EXFV5g4pIcz_tUOWsuQnWRiHAYf > U&s=3DZo-6kPCgDPDGvZQryohZDAlaQjFtKgUTkjsXtsCgkyc&e=3D From nobody Mon Oct 9 11:36:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7239E13454C; 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Mon, 09 Oct 2017 12:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:12:36 +0200 From: Job Snijders To: Robert Raszuk Cc: John Scudder , ytti@ntt.net, idr wg Message-ID: <20171009191236.GA72041@Vurt.local> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:12:47 -0000 On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 05:56:44PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP > metric in the scenario of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for > them. I think the number of BGP implementations that can't do BGP to BGP to IGP recursion is extremely small, it'll be mostly the implementations that don't support the IGP or already operate without RIB. > > The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies > > draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best > > path algortihm (with possibility for blackholing). > > Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity > with the below sentence added to section 4.1: > > Current text: > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during > best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison > step." > > New text: > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during > best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison > step. > > In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level > recursion the metric used for given path's comparison (provided > implementation supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the > final IGP route the N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next > hop reachability validation should be based on the state of such > IGP route." > > Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ? I think some wordsmithing may be needed to improve the readability. The word 'recursion' or 'recursive lookup' should probably be used. NEW: """ In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step. In the scenario where a path's BGP next-hop can only be resolved through multi-level recursion, the metric used for a given path's comparison SHOULD be equal to the IGP metric of the final IGP route the recursive lookup resulted in. Similarly, next-hop reachability validation should be based on the state of such IGP route. """ > The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate > such metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and > assumed having max metric in such cases ? Good question, 'assuming max metric' will at least prevent certain blackholes compared to 'not announcing'. Vendors may want to chip in here on what their implementation does. The document will be better off if we highlight this problem and make a recommendation (such as 'treat as less preferred'). Kind regards, Job From nobody Mon Oct 9 12:15:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5299913453A for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:15:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q4PlejFMXEHQ for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22f.google.com (mail-it0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF67F1286C7 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id l196so1987865itl.4 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 12:15:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Xs7/nhU+BLi6wgbe8KvA2zTViH1mGrjjy01cm44Mwto=; b=OhvIgl0UGeWfb8z6BYBhLesC7q+AOLn55VN93nbhWoCkiq413ZFTVPKr9Mo7s/LIbN QTTTwrYoc+OqBXPDlbBR7egYVsu1zhbfjTvXBOBjxQhQ/XxXJBgtheQavrs+QKPbmjvz 2qEaNwCBg6FQCAReRZ6DFezQFgy4TvnMfblWOqrI/hCjEbDDAVCxT/LMNCWdIHwbLW/Z p+Qwyf3lcROxZH7EcmMdcpUCHleIV8FCuQPNSqpVhFTzqPpfLJGns/L+R2NnvPqMONmD gLOo6R/KLQPpjSUFdYmFFVUjSMPewmmY06HN4YvTRJ41RNTpdKy2+bmdYXEB4h9E0g96 nXdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Xs7/nhU+BLi6wgbe8KvA2zTViH1mGrjjy01cm44Mwto=; b=PNV6K54v89LFDihNJ4YtTw2OcV0B6FQGrdcOBm0gtZxAqEoO6vRaK4nJ9QWyb7XoXR q0Z2Tq4MDKifosbTkbgFkbpasa0Cq1K0ryA6XpI/W/DD6t7OFABwO207sWozM5ATapHK 9u7OiQEcnt7KEMH2eUN5ylzpIHYSHUrEEU+6VfNNWJ406iZb01NCuQ9hMItLYTNb87X9 hGvb8vaHOdbWvw9lzy8M20tLrAIwoQom5f+Hkncq617QfL1yL/U02lXLRTePjGBa6Q9C lKuJ8CRW9SA1VpwNup+nK8UQVpUJtFquO1AcXrEjmAzVHl+wcsFpMWT8ZvkpDTudkFip BUpA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXYGA0xxkiLt378m1XZ0FZyf736M/tfHELyPmHpNL4LR8sGEuOj uPOV1I/HN6a9gjP4Juc1lKF4RP3JgbKU7rjAxh9ENEaF X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDnJuZgtHGAOr0LVvetLB8iXheUUEosF/6+OV7ukAe9liMaaDpF0C52t/laMcFleWgw94GsOAov1CoBgioTzlc= X-Received: by 10.36.241.66 with SMTP id q2mr15495503iti.57.1507576554908; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 12:15:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.38.76 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:15:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> From: Adam Chappell Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:15:54 +0200 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Job Snijders , idr wg , ytti@ntt.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045fc0c206efa4055b220552" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:15:58 -0000 --f403045fc0c206efa4055b220552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasible and eventually fall back to max metric for a comparison in absence of anything else? Would certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job's case where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable. Optimal should be better, but not really any worse than classic, right? :) I don't think the recursion needs to be mandated though, much as the supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. It is putting the the ORR's Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which is what we'd avoided. On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Job, > > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP > metric in the scenario > of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them. > > > The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies > draft has ambiguity > > which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with > possibility for blackholing). > > Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity with > the below sentence > added to section 4.1: > > Current text: > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best > path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step." > > > New text: > > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best > path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step. > > > In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level recursion > the metric used for given path's comparison (provided implementation > supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the final IGP route the > N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next hop reachability > validation > should be based on the state of such IGP route." > > Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ? > > The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate such > metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed > having max metric in such cases ? > > Thx, > R. > > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: >> > 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with >> > ORR ? >> >> Sometimes. >> >> > The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to >> > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to >> > the child. >> >> No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor >> read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop >> may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple >> oversight that probably would not have happened if the document >> specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more >> protocols. >> >> > When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking >> > (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single >> > call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific >> > next hop which is being queried. >> > >> > Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may >> > very likely result in number of implementations to become >> > non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some >> > cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. >> >> I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. >> >> > For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via >> > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. >> > >> > If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy >> > to update the NH cost draft and progress it. >> >> I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right >> place for this. >> >> The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change their >> behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector, >> before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released >> software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes >> operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for >> blackholing). >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Job >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > -- -- Adam. --f403045fc0c206efa4055b220552 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasibl= e and eventually fall back to max metric for a comparison in absence of any= thing else?=C2=A0 Would certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job= 's case where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comp= arable. Optimal should be better, but not really any worse than classic, ri= ght? =C2=A0:)

I don't think the recursion need= s to be mandated though, much as the supported IGP protocols aren't man= dated. It is putting the the ORR's Loc-RIB and selection policy into pl= ay which is what we'd avoided.


=


On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk <<= a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net= > wrote:
Job,

>=C2=A0I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change= .

It would be helpful to h= ear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP metric in the scenario=C2=A0=
of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them.=C2=A0<= /span>

> The fact tha= t they released=C2=A0software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity= =C2=A0
> which causes=C2=A0operational inconsistency in best= path algortihm (with possibility for=C2=A0blackholing).

Ok in such a case I don't see any problem o= f addressing the ambiguity with the below sentence
adde= d to section 4.1:

Current text:

   "In this docu=
ment we refer to optimal as the decision made during best
   path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step."<=
/pre>

New text:

= "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during b= est path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step.<= pre class=3D"m_-4278838375415002707m_1248082118556363001gmail-newpage" styl= e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"= >
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level rec= ursion=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the metric used for=C2=A0given path's comparison= (provided implementation=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0supports it)=C2=A0should be equal to IGP metric=C2= =A0= of the final IGP route the=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next = hop reachability validation=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0should=C2=A0be based on the state of such IGP route.= "

Would WG and yourself be fi= ne with this change ?=C2=A0

The only= problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate such metric .. s= hould the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed having max m= etric in such cases ?

Thx,<= /div>
R.


On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders <= ;job@ntt.net> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04= :25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > ORR ?

Sometimes.

> The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to
> the child.

No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor=
read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple
oversight that probably would not have happened if the document
specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more
protocols.

> When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking
> (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single
> call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specif= ic
> next hop which is being queried.
>
> Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > very likely result in number of implementations to become
> non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some
> cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area.

I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change.
> For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02.
>
> If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > to update the NH cost draft and progress it.

I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the = right
place for this.

The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change thei= r
behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector,
before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released
software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for
blackholing).

Kind regards,

Job


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr




--

-- Adam.
--f403045fc0c206efa4055b220552-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 12:25:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DF3132949 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W9B3hl07Ovaq for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CA371286C7 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id k4so26266128wmc.1 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 12:25:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=Hoz+U88iV8cw1RBww4aJqrKaRO7SsNDKc4Ab9RlmdbY=; b=lyynu3K9HbXnyTVtQdZB24l4XuE2mA37Eyz8RDyQX6ViHVbRFFYmzJ9Uur6Jf9V+qQ Er7VA6RGVaaeaRyex7ne9HrefK9+pBDwGsEDF6IdK00Q2nfBoPcqFYI1sbF5f7BCXy3l 8aIahSG/3oEPkS+T6EMcT3T5E2LpaZ1M3c1UEy5hLKniTMZ/Mv+6PKZqs0oRWG6Bcknv Hxn6mRASyWcnnhlge2qugcoXX+qwwxH211XxvqRtWQkU9nZnw4uFr2NOik2/0CdS2VTQ eM6LJTTuLcQrfSJLXIGMYeL0xu23u/fpxZ8BVVuru56bqvbDpuM5S/dZBBgDiNbqe2RE l01A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Hoz+U88iV8cw1RBww4aJqrKaRO7SsNDKc4Ab9RlmdbY=; b=ZAuegGchJUN5xrM+gfR1TnICmXi7/BQfjEhlk9xpBPTRrVtxzBqzrsdoHtp5HO9HqK 48HpOZ9iOtka3FQ6rcc7uLI3tKmkl7cU7xHEBry7taB2Z8pWJQa2ilGhRrfdY7GquOK5 AZiCOMUesb0LKbWW6UuK33yFDZ6iHRbIPNMw18vK7Lz/lxMNultprsdBrQlEPQvgGqwn hzoBPTNHq6kXnYELfZ/CQvGpznleN77kanTRa++fs3WzxVrStyLQqpW4X/P+g5RmYsWY ITw0m3rzp40mGxMsKGvTsTRXx121Ir8ZM2juSvIbNUW9cdLGqZlB4cHEY5/JBnC2DJKM MuDg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVKZQ6kVeIWp+W4n/cOHOzr5XGHGPgQVLX/sNv0hUpQ1DaKwNAr FgzMaEPDSVpVx/9OJ8DpnJKyET9fEDkAW7YpxE0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAhL9gq6lLCqm9C5iCFQ08my7iW7L/20kgkamrLpGgMvFcCXoXDrpHa0vp9jn6EcKOYJmvloGXZ9UovS02YsXY= X-Received: by 10.28.32.136 with SMTP id g130mr9661405wmg.102.1507577099650; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 12:24:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 12:24:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:24:58 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: rj1mSIUU86bc41oY56xMSG2-VFk Message-ID: To: Adam Chappell Cc: Job Snijders , idr wg , ytti@ntt.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d7fc27f0bc1055b222514" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:25:06 -0000 --001a113d7fc27f0bc1055b222514 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Adam, > where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable If I have single path to a net there is nothing to compare it with so this step of best path does not matter regardless if you use regular RR, add-paths or ORR. So none of those means that we are not sending such NLRI in iBGP. The way I understood Job's case it is not the "NLRI itself which was ommited", but one recursive path to such NLRI was not considered in the comparison with other paths (next hops) as metric to its recursive next hop was not there. Thx, R. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Adam Chappell wrote: > Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasible and eventually fall > back to max metric for a comparison in absence of anything else? Would > certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job's case where an NLRI > was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable. Optimal should be > better, but not really any worse than classic, right? :) > > I don't think the recursion needs to be mandated though, much as the > supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. It is putting the the ORR's > Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which is what we'd avoided. > > > > > On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> Job, >> >> > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. >> >> It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP >> metric in the scenario >> of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them. >> >> > The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies >> draft has ambiguity >> > which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with >> possibility for blackholing). >> >> Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity >> with the below sentence >> added to section 4.1: >> >> Current text: >> >> "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best >> path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step." >> >> >> New text: >> >> >> "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best >> path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step. >> >> >> In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level >> recursion >> the metric used for given path's comparison (provided implementation >> supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the final IGP route the >> N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next hop reachability >> validation >> should be based on the state of such IGP route." >> >> Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ? >> >> The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate such >> metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed >> having max metric in such cases ? >> >> Thx, >> R. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>> > 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with >>> > ORR ? >>> >>> Sometimes. >>> >>> > The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to >>> > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to >>> > the child. >>> >>> No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor >>> read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop >>> may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple >>> oversight that probably would not have happened if the document >>> specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more >>> protocols. >>> >>> > When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking >>> > (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single >>> > call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific >>> > next hop which is being queried. >>> > >>> > Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may >>> > very likely result in number of implementations to become >>> > non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some >>> > cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. >>> >>> I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. >>> >>> > For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via >>> > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. >>> > >>> > If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy >>> > to update the NH cost draft and progress it. >>> >>> I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right >>> place for this. >>> >>> The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change their >>> behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector, >>> before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released >>> software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes >>> operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for >>> blackholing). >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Job >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> >> > > > -- > > -- Adam. > --001a113d7fc27f0bc1055b222514 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adam,

&= gt; where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable

If I have single path to a net ther= e is nothing to compare it with so this step of best path does not matter r= egardless if you use regular RR, add-paths or ORR. So none of those means t= hat we are not sending such NLRI in iBGP.

The way I understood Job's case it is not the &quo= t;NLRI itself which was ommited", but one recursive path to such NLRI = was not considered in the comparison with other paths (next hops) as metric= to its recursive next hop was not there.=C2=A0
Thx,
R.


On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Adam Chappell <= ;adam.chappell= @gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasible and ev= entually fall back to max metric for a comparison in absence of anything el= se?=C2=A0 Would certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job's c= ase where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable. = Optimal should be better, but not really any worse than classic, right? =C2= =A0:)

I don't think the recursion needs to be = mandated though, much as the supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. I= t is putting the the ORR's Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which= is what we'd avoided.



On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk <robert= @raszuk.net> wrote:
Job,
<= span>

>=C2=A0I think you are overesti= mating the impact of the proposed change.

It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to = BGP an IGP metric in the scenario=C2=A0
of N-level of rec= ursion is easy or hard for them.=C2=A0

<= /div>
> The fact that they released=C2=A0software without this capacity, = implies draft has ambiguity=C2=A0
> which causes=C2=A0= operat= ional inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for=C2=A0blackholing= ).
=

Ok in such a case I = don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity with the below senten= ce
added to section 4.1:
<= span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
Current text:

   "In this document we refer to optimal as t=
he decision made during best
   path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step."<=
/pre>

New text:

   "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made =
during best
   path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step.
<= pre class=3D"m_-771491100547538362m_-4278838375415002707m_12480821185563630= 01gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:= 0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolv= ing via N level recursion=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the metric used for=C2=A0given p= ath's comparison (provided implementation=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0supports it)=C2=A0should be eq= ual to IGP metric=C2=A0of the final IGP route the=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0N level recursion resolves = via. Similarly next hop reachability validation=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0should=C2=A0be based on the stat= e of such IGP route."

Woul= d WG and yourself be fine with this change ?=C2=A0

The only problem is what to do if implementation can not pro= pagate such metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred a= nd assumed having max metric in such cases ?

<= /div>
Thx,
R.


O= n Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:=
On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM= +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > ORR ?

Sometimes.

> The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to
> the child.

No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor=
read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple
oversight that probably would not have happened if the document
specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more
protocols.

> When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking
> (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single
> call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specif= ic
> next hop which is being queried.
>
> Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > very likely result in number of implementations to become
> non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some
> cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area.

I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change.
> For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02.
>
> If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > to update the NH cost draft and progress it.

I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the = right
place for this.

The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change thei= r
behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector,
before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released
software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for
blackholing).

Kind regards,

Job


______________________________= _________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr




--

-- Adam.

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Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling. > In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence is > <<< > If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router >       supporting this document and that imports the route MUST consider >       it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy >       of [RFC7606] > >>> > Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is > <<< > A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST >    trigger a reset of the BGP session > >>> > Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to > treat-as-withdraw in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a > NLRI if one cannot parse it; and also because it conflicts with the > 2nd mandate. You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is so mangled that you can't  continue to parse the TCP octet stream. If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal lengths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate. Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be omitted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, and in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do with the SAFI being discussed. > 1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is > present in the Tunnel encap tlv. >   Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for > acceptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote > end point isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the > color in the NLRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / > remote end point be done only if both color and remote end point are > present. > > 2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub > tlvs in the tunnel encap tlv. >   The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option > to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then > have to make sure it matches the NLRI? I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps draft.  (There has been some controversy on this point though.) The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone from including it. The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it contains contradictory information. From nobody Mon Oct 9 13:32:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F79133049 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 13:32:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id avoODOvkDFy7 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 13:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DEB71332D4 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 13:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id b189so25550113wmd.4 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 13:32:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=L/gfF6dkOhnL91knnZ+2gkTutJcriaHt9YDyNEPo9g0=; b=EhwX437z78QpMt9DHHV+paiX5dfGnvNm+7139DlfHdT6pfGrXnvIVwcoJGSRDfOfQ6 8PQqtnOZOGVWRdnwwD9j1B8lsDXnvANmNAPkUNMkqp4kW2eYqq0PgYwY+hEI0L4jOLac i3SbMK+F+0Ifs+s/Vyl0biL3dk2djUCjt7gTqLPuD7gFRXOsCqOnTF7cwz7dQI20Zzv6 MC4baC5kFznVaXPhYcDhwV+qkCI6cWhJ2aSMhv6Hg0O9pSJps1tCHX3cb3H9Lt4OCXVi rujxE9G9YklniH/nUVapc4MSiTPUOyMNExNeLIkby2qEgwMBRmcK+dndbVhmoJS1llYs mCng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L/gfF6dkOhnL91knnZ+2gkTutJcriaHt9YDyNEPo9g0=; b=haADXyu2Enm30Lu+XCZ/x7LvYGMlcsnRnkrnde2jtgC4CD5p7Lll6k1gzlj16OQRfY PyjrHUfye4AvgRQEjpbcs4Fy5PKLhpo0FCh6mZfhMCvvmkIUG7aspHRgvqfsMiztQIsm nCjLx2goTdwvZAyvXrNf/KZzWZ2Pu+/REjtFTpIFf0GZ0cjkCZRhlUmJEsHxKabe84dB IBSeORnasllJuvx8pZuKJle8de3M0oerlP1tKDuvyeOH5LPCvdMF7H5b3pSEKuhXIoUO wCcgOFh21WuMmlaYA+Nr2psrDignAKR8Vc+gzoRTAAbtLzSieLH8xwlXNPNZBQl6GM35 gLbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXWiml9e0pGmMqK7jZqkRAHykpo2itisdM8QYsbl1T4li6ptklb U1Z2K8dnQJ5fG/P1BRFwzoKLNN0HZiyxOgHm8KOabg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QD7m6xEK8kB89561NxtIb5TtV25iThrOO+ST7RCP/kgpB+Dc4n8TCXkSj5d2U8zh83HNNwI/Wl3dYAOc7fsqno= X-Received: by 10.223.148.38 with SMTP id 35mr6251982wrq.49.1507581158763; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 13:32:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 13:32:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 22:32:38 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hm7yFzdPY81LaaOpXxAl_pU7sQQ Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: Nandan Saha , stefano previdi , idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114cb4087033fe055b2317bf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 20:32:43 -0000 --001a114cb4087033fe055b2317bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eric, You can't withdraw something which you did not successfully parsed. So the MP_REACH_NLRI must be parsed entirely to be able to apply the "treat-as-withdraw" otherwise procedures 3j from RFC7606 apply. Also I do not see any definition and levels of "mangled" in RFC7606 :) Thx, R. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > On 10/6/2017 10:38 AM, Nandan Saha wrote: > >> 5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling. >> In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence is >> <<< >> If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router >> supporting this document and that imports the route MUST consider >> it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy >> of [RFC7606] >> >>> >> Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is >> <<< >> A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST >> trigger a reset of the BGP session >> >>> >> Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to >> treat-as-withdraw in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI >> if one cannot parse it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate. >> > > You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is > so mangled that you can't continue to parse the TCP octet stream. > If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal > lengths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate. > > Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be > omitted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, > and in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do > with the SAFI being discussed. > > 1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present >> in the Tunnel encap tlv. >> Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for >> acceptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end >> point isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the >> NLRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be >> done only if both color and remote end point are present. >> >> 2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs >> in the tunnel encap tlv. >> The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option to >> also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have to >> make sure it matches the NLRI? >> > > I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps > draft. (There has been some controversy on this point though.) > The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone from > including it. > > The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it > contains contradictory information. > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a114cb4087033fe055b2317bf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eric,

You can't withdraw something which you did not succ= essfully parsed. So the MP_REACH_NLRI must be parsed entirely to be able to= apply the "treat-as-withdraw" otherwise procedures 3j from RFC76= 06 apply.=C2=A0

Also I= do not see any definition and levels of "mangled" in RFC7606 :)= =C2=A0

Thx,
R.

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Eric C Rosen = <erosen@juniper.= net> wrote:
On 10/6/2017 10:38 AM, Nandan Saha wrote:
5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling.
In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence i= s
<<<
If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 supporting this document and that imports the route MU= ST consider
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-w= ithdraw" strategy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of [RFC7606]
>>>
Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is
<<<
A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger a reset of the BGP session
>>>
Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdra= w in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot par= se it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate.

 You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is = so mangled that you can't=C2=A0 continue to parse the TCP octet stream.=
If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal leng= ths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate.

Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be om= itted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, and= in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do with t= he SAFI being discussed.

1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present in= the Tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for acc= eptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end point= isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the N= LRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be do= ne only if both color and remote end point are present.

2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs in= the tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option = to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have= to make sure it matches the NLRI?

 I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps = draft.=C2=A0 (There has been some controversy on this point though.)
The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone f= rom including it.

The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it contai= ns contradictory information.


_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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Mon, 9 Oct 2017 13:41:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=7Il7QYgOV1+6ePX/ROw/02thNcMPVAUAS+5X3QrwvmU=; b=IddCMUrRzrnnDRb6vASnSgBVy+W3A9xXL6QSs24iowcKR+Apa9FRQSXlnkYJMtrMgq7JuKS6cACm1ujKDhjawHv3ph5vfyOfIOdo7Xehzq9uVwFA7/FbEQFDj4MnrPrn28KYcb8Fv9X4dJDV+9+Nt61mdog/bRpzCnbftGtqaa8= Received: from [172.29.36.187] (66.129.241.14) by BL2PR05MB2292.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:c74f::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.5; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:41:43 +0000 To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Nandan Saha , stefano previdi , idr wg References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> From: Eric C Rosen Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 16:41:49 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; 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In the case under discussion, the UPDATE is parsed successfully, but the internal structure of the NLRI cannot be parsed by the SR-TE application.  I don't think you need to understand the internal structure of the NLRI to withdraw the UPDATE.  You certainly wouldn't reset the session in this case. 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d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=qtxvcmLC9hkNiNK5+FsdX5SENCLuYJhLdg/dKFgZtx4=; b=ZmCg9kW7zEZzErjLk/PgHDjKDsKcLe+WpJNZO1gL9buvw90kghEM3SvVmVYR9ZY/Wf Zk0R/NAepZgJG4xD/ETXVLvMgMEMlOWsqGLVjBQQx4V3BZBAxLRyqSVINDQsoYKB2m42 c2tqe4Mj4AyY6pcxoRWxuzZPe369GOct+3+J8XNN0csotMAmyf1EVLTq/t6HAdEe2CuO nZjSwIWl0nWSRvkOIRU0dY1X6O1v5KprY1IMLxWBXu8UJr2VUQj7MoaBb+4b+WsKIyCF wIIio4ewe5M//pHDWOyLhtq/qIpXJHOmhXerwIV5j5zsEoWm+N71Rj9E474cBmTFY6CO +08A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qtxvcmLC9hkNiNK5+FsdX5SENCLuYJhLdg/dKFgZtx4=; b=YImH5JVA5OqUHYBvimkX95rPyKvM8JM0RVJGXCpqhAcdxptZjH+DqE1IRg+auXEOwi J5n0w6/TaWK3BvAV/4AsTJlSjYpUi7DQnqYvr6gYT6a3f9kLX/yesy2BBkQ7/QCPfA2Q FwZlAmFYIFoywmpWdJtcvRplpP6IcgunXEpVr30KKijBp5kv+2+hAbvrBIEqx0hnc2MA 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Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: Adam Chappell , idr wg , "ytti@ntt.net" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0709e495d2c5055b238463" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:03:15 -0000 --94eb2c0709e495d2c5055b238463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Jakob, Let me try to describe it in a bit different way ... Prefix 1.1.1.1/24 has 3 paths each with different next hop: NH1, NH2, NH3 NH1 is an NLRI in BGP1 and it's next hop is NNH1 (IGP metric 100). NH2 is an NLRI in BGP2 with next hop NNH2 which is again a NLRI of BGP3 and next hop NNNH3 (IGP metric 90) NH3 is native IGP next hop with IGP metric 110 So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24 you should have all three metrics 90, 100, 110 there to pick the best path. If next hop is not in IGP with or without recursion such path is invalid so we should not worry about it here. Thx, R. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > I don't understand the phrase " if implementation can not propagate such > metric ". > > > > Suppose we have a BGP nexthop NH1. > > There are two BGP routes to NH1: BGP1 and BGP2. > > BGP1 has nexthop NNH1. > > BGP2 has nexthop NNH2. > > BGP1 is the BGP best path, however, NNH2 has a lower (better) metric. > > Using the stated algorithm would choose NNH1, whereas NNH2 is actually > better. > > Networks with BGP nexthops out of reach of the IGP are susceptible to this > issue. > > I'm sure this is fine in most cases, but it is good to be aware. > > You could add it to a "deployment considerations" section. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, October 9, 2017 12:25 PM > *To:* Adam Chappell > *Cc:* idr wg ; ytti@ntt.net > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal- > route-reflection-14 > > > > Hi Adam, > > > > > where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable > > > > If I have single path to a net there is nothing to compare it with so this > step of best path does not matter regardless if you use regular RR, > add-paths or ORR. So none of those means that we are not sending such NLRI > in iBGP. > > > > The way I understood Job's case it is not the "NLRI itself which was > ommited", but one recursive path to such NLRI was not considered in the > comparison with other paths (next hops) as metric to its recursive next hop > was not there. > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Adam Chappell > wrote: > > Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasible and eventually fall > back to max metric for a comparison in absence of anything else? Would > certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job's case where an NLRI > was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable. Optimal should be > better, but not really any worse than classic, right? :) > > > > I don't think the recursion needs to be mandated though, much as the > supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. It is putting the the ORR's > Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which is what we'd avoided. > > > > > > > > > > On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Job, > > > > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > > > It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP > metric in the scenario > > of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them. > > > > > The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies > draft has ambiguity > > > which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with > possibility for blackholing). > > > > Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity with > the below sentence > > added to section 4.1: > > > > Current text: > > > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best > > path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step." > > > > New text: > > > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best > > path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step. > > > > In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level recursion > > the metric used for given path's comparison (provided implementation > > supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the final IGP route the > > N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next hop reachability > validation > > should be based on the state of such IGP route." > > > > Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ? > > > > The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate such > metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed > having max metric in such cases ? > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > > ORR ? > > Sometimes. > > > The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to > > the child. > > No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor > read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop > may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple > oversight that probably would not have happened if the document > specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more > protocols. > > > When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking > > (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single > > call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific > > next hop which is being queried. > > > > Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > > very likely result in number of implementations to become > > non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some > > cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > > For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via > > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. > > > > If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > > to update the NH cost draft and progress it. > > I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right > place for this. > > The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change their > behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector, > before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released > software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes > operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for > blackholing). > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > > -- > > > -- Adam. > > > --94eb2c0709e495d2c5055b238463 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jakob,

Let me try to describe it in a bit different way ...

Prefix 1.1.1.1/24 has 3 paths each with different next hop: NH1,= NH2, NH3

NH1 is an NL= RI in BGP1 and it's next hop is NNH1 (IGP metric 100).=C2=A0

NH2 is an NLRI in BGP2 with next= hop NNH2 which is again a NLRI of BGP3 and next hop NNNH3 (IGP metric 90)<= /div>

NH3 is native IGP next= hop with IGP metric 110

So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24 you should have all three metrics 90, 100, 110 there to = pick the best path. If next hop is not in IGP with or without recursion suc= h path is invalid so we should not worry about it here.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.
=




On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.= com> wrote:

I don't understand the phrase " if implementation can not propagate such metric ".

=C2=A0

Suppose we have a BGP nexthop NH1.=

There are two BGP routes to NH1: BGP1 and BG= P2.

BGP1 has nexthop NNH1.<= /p>

BGP2 has nexthop NNH2.<= /p>

BGP1 is the BGP best path, however, NNH2 has= a lower (better) metric.

Using the stated algorithm would choose NNH1= , whereas NNH2 is actually better.

Networks with BGP nexthops out of reach of t= he IGP are susceptible to this issue.

I'm sure this is fine in most cases, but= it is good to be aware.

You could add it to a "deployment consi= derations" section.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 12:25 PM
To: Adam Chappell <adam.chappell@gmail.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; ytti@n= tt.net
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-re= flection-14

=C2=A0

Hi Adam,

=C2=A0

> where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH w= asn't comparable

=C2=A0

If I have single path to a net there is nothing to com= pare it with so this step of best path does not matter regardless if you us= e regular RR, add-paths or ORR. So none of those means that we are not sending such NLRI in iBGP.

=C2=A0

The way I understood Job's case it is not the "NLRI itself wh= ich was ommited", but one recursive path to such NLRI was not consider= ed in the comparison with other paths (next hops) as metric to its recursive next hop was not there.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Adam Chappell <adam.chappell@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasib= le and eventually fall back to max metric for a comparison in absence of an= ything else?=C2=A0 Would certainly be principle of least astonishment in Jo= b's case where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable. Optimal should be better, but not re= ally any worse than classic, right? =C2=A0:)

=C2=A0

I don't think the recursion needs to be mandated= though, much as the supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. It is put= ting the the ORR's Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which is what= we'd avoided.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

Job,

=C2=A0

>=C2=A0I think you are overestimating the impact of the propos= ed change.<= u>

=C2=A0

It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagati= ng to BGP an IGP metric in the scenario=C2=A0

of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them.=C2= =A0<= u>

=C2=A0

> The fact that they released=C2=A0software without= this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity=C2=A0

> which causes=C2=A0operational inconsistency in be= st path algortihm (with possibility for=C2=A0blackholing).

=C2=A0

Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addre= ssing the ambiguity with the below sentence

added to section 4.1:

=C2=A0

Current text:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 "In this document we ref=
er to optimal as the decision made during best
=C2=A0=C2=A0 path selection at the IGP met=
ric to BGP next hop comparison step."
=C2=A0
New text:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 "In this document we ref=
er to optimal as the decision made during best
=C2=A0=C2=A0 path selection at the IGP met=
ric to BGP next hop comparison step.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the scenario of BGP route's next hop re= solving via N level recursion=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0the metric used for=C2=A0given path's comp= arison (provided implementation=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0supports it)=C2=A0should be equal to IGP metri= c=C2=A0of the final IGP route the=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next= hop reachability validation=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0should=C2=A0be based on the state of such IGP = route."

=C2=A0

Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ?=C2=A0= <= /u>

=C2=A0

The only problem is what to do if implementation can n= ot propagate such metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less prefe= rred and assumed having max metric in such cases ?

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:=

On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Ras= zuk wrote:
> 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > ORR ?

Sometimes.

> The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to
> the child.

No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor
read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple
oversight that probably would not have happened if the document
specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more
protocols.

> When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking
> (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single
> call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specif= ic
> next hop which is being queried.
>
> Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > very likely result in number of implementations to become
> non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some
> cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area.

I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change.

> For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02.
>
> If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > to update the NH cost draft and progress it.

I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right place for this.

The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change thei= r
behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector,
before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released
software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for
blackholing).

Kind regards,

Job

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_____________________= __________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=C2=A0

--


-- Adam.

=C2=A0


--94eb2c0709e495d2c5055b238463-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 14:07:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE8E134218 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:07:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWEJCqSWbEi0 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74A58124B17 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id q132so26857360wmd.2 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:07:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=IkGY4z6DdhmKMdx30q6VPla91/nGd0of7Ls6QKSYS5I=; b=oiWq/B0InpMrNpHJKyDXLnfGGupTUn7XY80qka/cPNYC3XIkH8xWCJbeCru6JM4CoQ S6lOD27NJByHLdpVJt/HOC0blQBrZ3xFpXmYbguARA0dPh9iIbfhuK9jcptcgHThuuNn I0zWbPauAgdP+G1w9DiFeuHNePPOYwcHsX1sQwmdifEqXfDSZkmAU8qZCY33cQfp5mZc LLFnbBjn7Lu2vwpgQdlntLqaKzG9OvGtNyvd/0mzgqqf1umT6GqeH3zRdNRoJd9Mp2YK /vQLd86MORA5NLn687sBTcDN3n2hmeeNmamoc2Tlczohk5O1czE8rg9qoOiUfLVan6kv HMRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IkGY4z6DdhmKMdx30q6VPla91/nGd0of7Ls6QKSYS5I=; b=FjU39C1KsEWIcmh4ZKi7MAFY9d5KyaoCIko8hnRWu6UkqnccSh12reDI8HUbI4TR4a CZFyyAMuNJ4RTMA7m1KdH+W/EwBRgtiBNnsAvJl2SNg2YQTPWTDM1dUHnTYOfdhxSm/s otHMSd5ZmEuUo1833JOvaaXYmwRnvx5/1PuolGK40lCskqFjIQaYzQqSSYdmkcGbfLin J4lwvbRp9RTGAPt7cbSMftZLGBPORgfrkPaupMZAkRgkSume2tOcBzATuUpA8WejSZ4h dt7FXqB659T1NcOPyqGO/DzmP6YaernnkwkePYx8od/Z1znNbd+BuufH/6ZWp5LV9dLm qE1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVWXl7o8gltiKgFEmmXorMeEg+T2fv9nMOvOuStIP3ygESBCXgv ZPwSy7WW4nbFcM9YJrutTwbSxmxwgoyeDVWmmuQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCExlRkuDmI5RH0c4UjL1/FhVGdIWWdnx51V284vBgnlSYtJv30jgM5TWuHWw7ZpqOGyS6dFgvH2sg+JEZMrxU= X-Received: by 10.28.66.215 with SMTP id k84mr10255183wmi.143.1507583273839; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:07:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:07:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 23:07:53 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: AUrqYooV2pGLpNMerWAi9Je6bpE Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: Nandan Saha , stefano previdi , idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0709e481b322055b2395dd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:07:56 -0000 --94eb2c0709e481b322055b2395dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > I don't think you need to understand the internal structure of the NLRI to withdraw the UPDATE. How do you generate MP_UNREACH_NLRI to send withdraw if you did not completely parsed all NLRIs sitting in MP_REACH_NLRI attribute in the first place ? //r On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > On 10/9/2017 4:32 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> You can't withdraw something which you did not successfully parsed. >> > > In the case under discussion, the UPDATE is parsed successfully, but the > internal structure of the NLRI cannot be parsed by the SR-TE application. > I don't think you need to understand the internal structure of the NLRI to > withdraw the UPDATE. You certainly wouldn't reset the session in this case. > > > > --94eb2c0709e481b322055b2395dd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> I don't think you need to understand the in= ternal structure of the NLRI to withdraw the UPDATE.

How do you generate MP_UNREACH_NL= RI to send withdraw if you did not completely parsed all NLRIs sitting in M= P_REACH_NLRI attribute in the first place ?

//r

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Eric C Rosen <erosen= @juniper.net> wrote:
On 10/9/2017 4:32 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
You can't withdraw something which you did not successfully parsed.

 In the case under discussion, the UPDATE is parsed successfully, but the in= ternal structure of the NLRI cannot be parsed by the SR-TE application.=C2= =A0 I don't think you need to understand the internal structure of the = NLRI to withdraw the UPDATE.=C2=A0 You certainly wouldn't reset the ses= sion in this case.




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-0500 From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: Adam Chappell , idr wg , "ytti@ntt.net" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Thread-Index: AQHTPsjUdGxuUSTsXEWh+8r87romcqLbgrgAgABob4CAAA96gIAACgcAgAA3pQCAAAKJAP//vGaAgABfCYD//606cA== Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:11:11 +0000 Message-ID: <93e440d0bdd54b75b40de2ff0e87d2ec@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> <6062f554aa904352bc81c80040229d34@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.162.122] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_93e440d0bdd54b75b40de2ff0e87d2ecXCHALN014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: 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PC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_93e440d0bdd54b75b40de2ff0e87d2ecXCHALN014ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 14:16:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46A9134218 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:16:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UYfycbNeBP2r for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40ABF132D51 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:16:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-To: idr@ietf.org Received: from crumpet.local (089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v99KG97J047735 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:16:10 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from nick@foobar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-070074.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.74] (may be forged) claimed to be crumpet.local Message-ID: <59DBE72C.1060807@foobar.org> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 22:16:28 +0100 From: Nick Hilliard User-Agent: Postbox 5.0.19 (Macintosh/20170908) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Raszuk CC: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , idr wg , "ytti@ntt.net" References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> <6062f554aa904352bc81c80040229d34@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:16:39 -0000 Robert Raszuk wrote: > So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24 > you should have all three metrics 90, 100, 110 there > to pick the best path. If next hop is not in IGP with or without > recursion such path is invalid so we should not worry about it here. correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're understanding what Jakob is saying. When you have multiple orr clients (BGP1 and BGP2 in Jakob's example), their IGP view of the next-next-hops might be different from each other. This might happen if the NH address was anycasted in the IGP, for example, causing the NNH to be resolved different on different bgp clients. In this situation, the behaviour of the ORR client is not defined clearly in the spec. Because of the ambiguity, some implementations appear to have steered clear of handling recursion because it can cause non deterministic resolution problems. Nick From nobody Mon Oct 9 14:20:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A07F133049 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:20:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yNfuctGO4IMJ for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ACE813430D for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id u138so27049924wmu.4 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:20:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=1hW3r2Kw4hn0gZHrRCNskqJjDu2ZXKuZEveYCRoJHV4=; b=HvQ5dM/k8ROZhmtZux5X0owI/BlgSWReXq9snXDVHdWEqcTjH5Uy3OyajYN5WQsYM2 pSyQrgMz1ykcAboAJRWb63eODeRnwxQOv8au3ilzNXadDl7nJfL+bYGAJzfE+kP+jlKA q5g5dJH4eZVxVK6hDNjuH/BYxiCzGvhtbsqHwrbmafwy8v08mc1mrqPSYjpS80JMdoD+ nEkyI3CE98Rh6nVdXGNCI4mmqWP9PAh9FmzGTfznh67OKSOlP96YzjmckrNTKDzcwzHq ZdvvfianbD7LjdX7xh/HQ1EPp38ougQ46phI2MqgILxfD0wNa0fP2c7B6teYjF+8TosR 7/Lg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1hW3r2Kw4hn0gZHrRCNskqJjDu2ZXKuZEveYCRoJHV4=; b=bfIuMvRYhH76QU9nr810cwEJa2+2Micci0aZc46qcVS69qf453QR1ib50OeKppmlKB VEki86LiYmmkFdaas0MjR5rNEUyZalUoVkpOHCvXduBvcbXpmoFlMuK/2huyGZsr4MXX fFtbVr6AdXnpA91qHFG3XnZrx5fqStBhvCxllL+jTkOjQT4Aj4hgzzpyeymYzsa3VjK6 bmBm7+HRwkmO9InMMDIunKSjJ9lF59WPcKZV8LADHn4F+uHFALuEj7lHmGJe9ZyMqomM HyQ+2+HiD8JnBzXxEQXbWI+qUTsdm3Qzf5KwHvYpnehMc/19Tz8sZZAR12ysKHHRuJuI PN8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVUY1aoBGA7aDJ+h6hqPFh9bqyWgVx4tnKSmKvAMN31Xw1jZSa5 GkpZ1JvbIiKJL5wW9udXqGdyJ2VkGZ0Lue9kqJ9R/g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAQSzQ49PggqnarJOclgS/FcKiRjBmI4SLpMAXLeWozrzbiE5CSWpdTqt+gyDhYJknKDFQwlRUvd6EOcaXmEos= X-Received: by 10.28.95.10 with SMTP id t10mr8904007wmb.72.1507584003588; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:20:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:20:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <59DBE72C.1060807@foobar.org> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> <6062f554aa904352bc81c80040229d34@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <59DBE72C.1060807@foobar.org> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 23:20:02 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: SFDevHU9YBvpV78NEG_T8zJloHM Message-ID: To: Nick Hilliard Cc: idr wg , "ytti@ntt.net" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148fb0a00c867055b23c107" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:20:17 -0000 --001a1148fb0a00c867055b23c107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Nick, We are talking about single client ... Thx, R. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > Robert Raszuk wrote: > > So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24 > > you should have all three metrics 90, 100, 110 there > > to pick the best path. If next hop is not in IGP with or without > > recursion such path is invalid so we should not worry about it here. > > correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're understanding what > Jakob is saying. > > When you have multiple orr clients (BGP1 and BGP2 in Jakob's example), > their IGP view of the next-next-hops might be different from each other. > This might happen if the NH address was anycasted in the IGP, for > example, causing the NNH to be resolved different on different bgp clients. > > In this situation, the behaviour of the ORR client is not defined > clearly in the spec. Because of the ambiguity, some implementations > appear to have steered clear of handling recursion because it can cause > non deterministic resolution problems. > > Nick > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --001a1148fb0a00c867055b23c107 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nick,

We are talking about single client ...=C2=A0=C2=A0

Thx,
R.




On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Nick Hilli= ard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
Robert Raszuk wrote:
> So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24
> <http://1.1.1.1/24> you should have all three metrics 90, 100= , 110 there
> to pick the best path. If next hop is not in IGP with= or without
> recursion such path is invalid so we should not worry about it here.
correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're unders= tanding what
Jakob is saying.

When you have multiple orr clients (BGP1 and BGP2 in Jakob's example),<= br> their IGP view of the next-next-hops might be different from each other. =C2=A0This might happen if the NH address was anycasted in the IGP, for
example, causing the NNH to be resolved different on different bgp clients.=

In this situation, the behaviour of the ORR client is not defined
clearly in the spec.=C2=A0 Because of the ambiguity, some implementations appear to have steered clear of handling recursion because it can cause
non deterministic resolution problems.

Nick

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

--001a1148fb0a00c867055b23c107-- From nobody Mon Oct 9 14:37:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 891C2134301 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kXoMfL4ORQLb for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8102B133049 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id l68so42760wmd.5 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:37:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=e+K7W4zCoVaxb9of4q+OWe4KyE+iCbsFXo/gs3eJa98=; b=p6f8P+A16SfL4L0CJyTleMVGMd84xI17fJHuHM+A/U+J1fJX2dVi+mFJthH+rRVt0h aatWgi/FzJFxaEcQww6xmks7jz4h6W011SpDv486gprxEL3xzM73MFz2cole72LDjBY8 NcACapuY2LUVK8rC7UbWQQm3Ywyiu8w/amZbKEZYPe8NSzpZ0nCguwBFTfFFBUSVrIbV DOLfDLjkVtvt7FBpY/1DdVCP4fDcvjYdAVIFiuuhYETeROJW13nG7w9vAZwocRFbgCjg SXTEhqVkoG9gGpLabM5snZXZIdS0dyNUFQpnWHHToY8hsPHGSiBeRPqojqR2R2Ibp0XL tZLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e+K7W4zCoVaxb9of4q+OWe4KyE+iCbsFXo/gs3eJa98=; b=COZPnHal5uQeEPAkQmOWVNoWGY0kbKQDrHmMfgP/PayZR+9bwHoNdvD4q2h5KMREdP TtQ3wyx85BjHA14ndXAB8PcOE0oUVcysEmwkdsJUeF3qlCyfhGBHZGz5InlgVXGa2Hfu m4u6f9Kdm4dFtOkp8BeIAUdU2XWsFnagzE6bPtw0tVvF9mW0bQLf6Yx088lK2EZiBurB tzOwI9rVsw8f2a7hb0mL9GuGKKFW/xiLqOtqo05DSBymrGZ1etWm69f7M2dCMN3ayx57 Cq5eTLqCLh6Ph/7pNNmSx4nNRDeopIiLAXkz93bmrQj9gCfRyo5i69PZVYas1tBNxDqq nytQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXXd4U78a7aDhYsnVdogxjEQsQrWzHfIfS+AZBeoS7940xGMsWA ixC1VvHN772KZjVp1HFy2Z68P6HhiTCga23cvWc0r0Xc X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QD2dz9WLVbroLlx0npk1vRoKCJAVMfvfClNjPgykb+LyfxRk3S+95R8T5lLv5BbYVF4FOOtui6Mi1ZK3wKuA1o= X-Received: by 10.28.95.10 with SMTP id t10mr8925577wmb.72.1507585065817; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 14:37:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.146.135 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:37:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <93e440d0bdd54b75b40de2ff0e87d2ec@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> <6062f554aa904352bc81c80040229d34@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <93e440d0bdd54b75b40de2ff0e87d2ec@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 23:37:44 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hVz82Fa8pDxxzDOwXzGx4NweAWg Message-ID: To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" Cc: Adam Chappell , idr wg , "ytti@ntt.net" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148fb0a511b93055b2400b1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 21:37:51 -0000 --001a1148fb0a511b93055b2400b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" What if after say N levels of recursion it ends up on IGP leaf with metric X to it from the logical placement perspective ? Do you pass this metric X to BGP to be used in NH metric comparison among other paths (which may be also N level recursive) ? Ending up on SPF root in the logical RR placement would be the remote client node so 0 is OK, but the crux of the question here is really above. Thx, R. On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:11 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote: > We have been assuming that the metric of a BGP hop is 0. Accordingly: > > If it fails to resolve during the recursion, then it is unreachable. > > If the recursion ends at the SPF root, without touching an IGP reachable > NH, then the metric is 0. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert > Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, October 9, 2017 2:03 PM > *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > *Cc:* Adam Chappell ; idr wg ; > ytti@ntt.net > > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal- > route-reflection-14 > > > > Jakob, > > > > Let me try to describe it in a bit different way ... > > > > Prefix 1.1.1.1/24 has 3 paths each with different next hop: NH1, NH2, NH3 > > > > NH1 is an NLRI in BGP1 and it's next hop is NNH1 (IGP metric 100). > > > > NH2 is an NLRI in BGP2 with next hop NNH2 which is again a NLRI of BGP3 > and next hop NNNH3 (IGP metric 90) > > > > NH3 is native IGP next hop with IGP metric 110 > > > > So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24 you should have > all three metrics 90, 100, 110 there to pick the best path. If next hop is > not in IGP with or without recursion such path is invalid so we should not > worry about it here. > > > > Thx, > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > wrote: > > I don't understand the phrase " if implementation can not propagate such > metric ". > > > > Suppose we have a BGP nexthop NH1. > > There are two BGP routes to NH1: BGP1 and BGP2. > > BGP1 has nexthop NNH1. > > BGP2 has nexthop NNH2. > > BGP1 is the BGP best path, however, NNH2 has a lower (better) metric. > > Using the stated algorithm would choose NNH1, whereas NNH2 is actually > better. > > Networks with BGP nexthops out of reach of the IGP are susceptible to this > issue. > > I'm sure this is fine in most cases, but it is good to be aware. > > You could add it to a "deployment considerations" section. > > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, October 9, 2017 12:25 PM > *To:* Adam Chappell > *Cc:* idr wg ; ytti@ntt.net > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal- > route-reflection-14 > > > > Hi Adam, > > > > > where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable > > > > If I have single path to a net there is nothing to compare it with so this > step of best path does not matter regardless if you use regular RR, > add-paths or ORR. So none of those means that we are not sending such NLRI > in iBGP. > > > > The way I understood Job's case it is not the "NLRI itself which was > ommited", but one recursive path to such NLRI was not considered in the > comparison with other paths (next hops) as metric to its recursive next hop > was not there. > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Adam Chappell > wrote: > > Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasible and eventually fall > back to max metric for a comparison in absence of anything else? Would > certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job's case where an NLRI > was simply omitted because the NH wasn't comparable. Optimal should be > better, but not really any worse than classic, right? :) > > > > I don't think the recursion needs to be mandated though, much as the > supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. It is putting the the ORR's > Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which is what we'd avoided. > > > > > > > > > > On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Job, > > > > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > > > It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an IGP > metric in the scenario > > of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them. > > > > > The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies > draft has ambiguity > > > which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with > possibility for blackholing). > > > > Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity with > the below sentence > > added to section 4.1: > > > > Current text: > > > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best > > path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step." > > > > New text: > > > > "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during best > > path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison step. > > > > In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level recursion > > the metric used for given path's comparison (provided implementation > > supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the final IGP route the > > N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next hop reachability > validation > > should be based on the state of such IGP route." > > > > Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ? > > > > The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate such > metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed > having max metric in such cases ? > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > > ORR ? > > Sometimes. > > > The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to > > the child. > > No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor > read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop > may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple > oversight that probably would not have happened if the document > specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more > protocols. > > > When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking > > (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single > > call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specific > > next hop which is being queried. > > > > Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > > very likely result in number of implementations to become > > non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some > > cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area. > > I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change. > > > For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via > > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02. > > > > If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > > to update the NH cost draft and progress it. > > I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right > place for this. > > The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change their > behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector, > before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released > software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes > operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for > blackholing). > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > > -- > > > -- Adam. > > > > > --001a1148fb0a511b93055b2400b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What if after say N levels of recursio= n it ends up on IGP leaf with metric X to it from the logical placement per= spective ? Do you pass this metric X to BGP to be used in NH metric compari= son among other paths (which may be also N level recursive) ?=C2=A0

Ending up= on SPF root in the logical RR placement would be the remote client node so= 0 is OK, but the crux of the question here is really above.

Thx,
R.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:11 PM, Jakob Heitz (jhe= itz) <jheitz@cisco.com> wrote:

We have been assuming that the metric of a B= GP hop is 0. Accordingly:

If it fails to resolve during the recursion,= then it is unreachable.

If the recursion ends at the SPF root, witho= ut touching an IGP reachable NH, then the metric is 0.=

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 2:03 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: Adam Chappell <adam.chappell@gmail.com>; idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; ytti@ntt.net


Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-re= flection-14

=C2=A0

Jakob,

=C2=A0

Let me try to describe it in a bit different way ...

=C2=A0

Prefix 1.1.1.1/24 has 3 paths each with different next hop: NH1, NH2, NH3

=C2=A0

NH1 is an NLRI in BGP1 and it's next hop is NNH1 (IGP metric 100).= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

NH2 is an NLRI in BGP2 with next hop NNH2 which is again a NLRI of BGP= 3 and next hop NNNH3 (IGP metric 90)

=C2=A0

NH3 is native IGP next hop with IGP metric 110

=C2=A0

So when you run (regular or ORR) best path on 1.1.1.1/24 you should h= ave all three metrics 90, 100, 110 there to pick the best path. If next hop= is not in IGP with or without recursion such path is invalid so we should = not worry about it here.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz= ) <jheitz@cisco.co= m> wrote:

I don't understand the phrase " if implementation can not propagate such metric ".<= /p>

=C2=A0

Suppose we have a BGP nexthop NH1.=

There are two BGP routes to NH1: BGP1 and BG= P2.

BGP1 has nexthop NNH1.<= /p>

BGP2 has nexthop NNH2.<= /p>

BGP1 is the BGP best path, however, NNH2 has= a lower (better) metric.

Using the stated algorithm would choose NNH1= , whereas NNH2 is actually better.

Networks with BGP nexthops out of reach of t= he IGP are susceptible to this issue.

I'm sure this is fine in most cases, but= it is good to be aware.

You could add it to a "deployment consi= derations" section.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Jakob

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 12:25 PM
To: Adam Chappell <adam.chappell@gmail.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr= @ietf.org>; ytti@ntt.net
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-re= flection-14

=C2=A0

Hi Adam,

=C2=A0

> where an NLRI was simply omitted because the NH w= asn't comparable

=C2=A0

If I have single path to a net there is nothing to com= pare it with so this step of best path does not matter regardless if you use regular RR, add-paths or ORR. So none of those means that we ar= e not sending such NLRI in iBGP.

=C2=A0

The way I understood Job's case it is not the "NLRI itself wh= ich was ommited", but one recursive path to such NLRI was not consider= ed in the comparison with other paths (next hops) as metric to its recursive = next hop was not there.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Adam Chappell <adam.chappell@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Perhaps resolve/recurse as far as is possible/feasib= le and eventually fall back to max metric for a comparison in absence of an= ything else?=C2=A0 Would certainly be principle of least astonishment in Job's case where an NLRI was simply omitted because th= e NH wasn't comparable. Optimal should be better, but not really any wo= rse than classic, right? =C2=A0:)

=C2=A0

I don't think the recursion needs to be mandated= though, much as the supported IGP protocols aren't mandated. It is put= ting the the ORR's Loc-RIB and selection policy into play which is what we'd avoided.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 9 October 2017 at 17:56, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

Job,

=C2=A0

>=C2=A0I think you are overestimating the impact of the propos= ed change.

=C2=A0

It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagati= ng to BGP an IGP metric in the scenario=C2=A0

of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for them.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

> The fact that they released=C2=A0software without= this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity=C2=A0

> which causes=C2=A0operational inconsistency in be= st path algortihm (with possibility for=C2=A0blackholing).=

=C2=A0

Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addre= ssing the ambiguity with the below sentence

added to section 4.1:

=C2=A0

Current text:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 "In this document we ref=
er to optimal as the decision made during best
=C2=A0=C2=A0 path selection at the IGP met=
ric to BGP next hop comparison step."
=C2=A0
New text:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 "In this document we ref=
er to optimal as the decision made during best
=C2=A0=C2=A0 path selection at the IGP met=
ric to BGP next hop comparison step.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the scenario of BGP route's next hop re= solving via N level recursion=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0the metric used for=C2=A0given path's comp= arison (provided implementation=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0supports it)=C2=A0should be equal to IGP metri= c=C2=A0of the final IGP route the=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next= hop reachability validation=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0should=C2=A0be based on the state of such IGP = route."

=C2=A0

Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ?=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

The only problem is what to do if implementation can n= ot propagate such metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred and assumed having max metric in such cases ?<= /u>

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:=

On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 04:25:27PM +0200, Robert Ras= zuk wrote:
> 1. Are you using the same implementation on both client and RR with > ORR ?

Sometimes.

> The problem usually is related here not to BGP implementation but to > RIB. Not all RIBs reference a metric of N-level recursive route to
> the child.

No, this is an optimal route reflection specific challenge. A vendor
read the document, and didn't consider the case where a BGP next-hop may recurse through another BGP route to an IGP route. This is a simple
oversight that probably would not have happened if the document
specified how to consider route recursion from via one or more
protocols.

> When BGP registers its next hop with RIB for state/metric tracking
> (assuming that implementation even does that rathere then a single
> call to RIB) the metric it get's is the one attached to the specif= ic
> next hop which is being queried.
>
> Bottom line is that mandating suggested text to the current spec may > very likely result in number of implementations to become
> non-compliant and what is worse the proper fix may require in some
> cases complete RIB redesign which is far from BGP and IDR area.

I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change.

> For your valid case I would suggest perhaps to solve it via
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-nh-cost-02.
>
> If you find vendors buying into your case we will be more then happy > to update the NH cost draft and progress it.

I disagree, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection is the right place for this.

The specific vendor I was referring to told us that they'll change thei= r
behaviour: they'll fully recurse the BGP routes at route reflector,
before chosing which route to reflect. The fact that they released
software without this capacity, implies draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best path algortihm (with possibility for
blackholing).

Kind regards,

Job

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_____________________= __________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



=C2=A0

--


-- Adam.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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-0500 From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: Adam Chappell , idr wg , "ytti@ntt.net" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 Thread-Index: AQHTPsjUdGxuUSTsXEWh+8r87romcqLbgrgAgABob4CAAA96gIAACgcAgAA3pQCAAAKJAP//vGaAgABfCYD//606cIAAXG8A//+yM6A= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:59:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> <20171009081140.qram6b2ubl4y3isj@hanna.meerval.net> <20171009152051.GH34236@Vurt.local> <6062f554aa904352bc81c80040229d34@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> <93e440d0bdd54b75b40de2ff0e87d2ec@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.131.91] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a834d74599c745b3ada44bc797a219daXCHALN014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 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2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 22:44:30 -0000 On 10/9/2017 5:07 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > How do you generate MP_UNREACH_NLRI to send withdraw if you did not > completely parsed all NLRIs sitting in MP_REACH_NLRI attribute in the > first place ? Suppose the MP_REACH had 3 NLRIs in it, each one 16 octets long. The first octet of each (the NLRI length field) has value 120 (120 bits == 15 octets). These NLRIs are not of legal length according to the sr-te-policy draft, but I don't see why you couldn't put each into an MP_UNREACH.  Certainly there's no reason to reset the BGP session. From nobody Mon Oct 9 20:39:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5CFA132F3F for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:39:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arista.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IfVjc0qP520b for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A0D3133090 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id q132so1340611wmd.2 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 20:39:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arista.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UnEOJA2tmiy+RM2oUQvv7H6eLUJp3SbVs3vA0MM0Ais=; b=b4uFODoTQzKl9Vl+P7k3KQ4rpVRUPfJuLILDuPxJvq2B6K9iW7u9ID2KOAzQSLdCzi kbwui7I6z9ZGUKf+jUKpXZHT6NkDyvJMjXJFnMffRGfqtRiQ9rGVKNg5FRipGCHBAj5Q Xk6i5+DAD/U8ObRtWmzBThl/MyvBCY9THn+oY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UnEOJA2tmiy+RM2oUQvv7H6eLUJp3SbVs3vA0MM0Ais=; b=e0vzquVmH6isbVrqHFOFaxcyg/oDGHsNoojNu1pUX5GrZaSmeRWq7y2wgnTDoA9tgJ 0xMAU2vYq7MMn3CT4tuTtgt/ptuWC3QgbaX8IwG3yxkvSRJW+vxQsoxNzm9J6tsKMIeL BYMZtjCjFjEaG/Yktkabv6Sk2c7yIIZl21vWFa3en2+aLmNvw8RGtmWT6zisgVKGMsHf Oef/uAuo6cbA81apuSQ8O7B9VXFmQF2Y9e01l3cdXa5vJZ0tVWC2YVf/xp3IxSxeemKO 5RZMkXgqK5bM7TWGvSeypPBo2t+Ek8rXrz+p68x7myZ9iiANZ757BWn07auTGHzqL9eW HSTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaW7FrJ1lFeCT7/lKWhhcNy5sWaLaefIKtBX0uE/+CQY6KWlJ5it XpOpao8Ug2Q1PepUJmK2zwF6FaP5SkDnhvzr0Tg7ciF4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAnGfn0ZJAfFZWzFnWX98/URkfj4BgaV5XtfD9abj0MT5vte7mDfLkSA5f4ru4kQ2IyrTX1ASlYnN/YlyhNiLw= X-Received: by 10.80.171.77 with SMTP id t13mr16681311edc.180.1507606793563; Mon, 09 Oct 2017 20:39:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.132.232 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> From: Nandan Saha Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:09:52 +0530 Message-ID: To: Eric C Rosen Cc: stefano previdi , idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0ebb38647158055b290f7f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 03:39:58 -0000 --94eb2c0ebb38647158055b290f7f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Eric, On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > On 10/6/2017 10:38 AM, Nandan Saha wrote: > >> 5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling. >> In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence is >> <<< >> If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router >> supporting this document and that imports the route MUST consider >> it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy >> of [RFC7606] >> >>> >> Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is >> <<< >> A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST >> trigger a reset of the BGP session >> >>> >> Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to >> treat-as-withdraw in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI >> if one cannot parse it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate. >> > > You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is > so mangled that you can't continue to parse the TCP octet stream. > If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal > lengths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate. > To do a treat-as-withdraw, the receiver needs to be able to parse the NLRI to extract the 3-tuple of {distinguisher, color, endpoint}. It cannot remove the policy from it's adj-Rib-in otherwise, as it's keyed on the 3-tuple. If the NLRI length < the valid length, then it's impossible to extract a valid 3-tuple. If the NLRI length > the valid length, then should the receiver extract upto the valid length? In the general case rfc7606 section 3, point j, mentions that one needs to be able to parse the NLRI to be able to do treat-as-withdraw. > > Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be > omitted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, > and in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do > with the SAFI being discussed. > > 1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present >> in the Tunnel encap tlv. >> Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for >> acceptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end >> point isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the >> NLRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be >> done only if both color and remote end point are present. >> >> 2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs >> in the tunnel encap tlv. >> The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option to >> also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have to >> make sure it matches the NLRI? >> > > I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps > draft. (There has been some controversy on this point though.) > The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone from > including it. > > The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it > contains contradictory information. > For a receiver of an update with the sr te safi and sr policy tunnel encap tlv, the source of truth for the end point and color is in the NLRI. So the endpoint and color in the tunnel tlv doesn't add any new information. In fact, in the draft today the _only_ thing a receiver has to do with the color and endpoint in the tunnel encap tlv is to compare against the NLRI. To me, it seems that things would be much simpler to simply ignore the contents of the color and remote endpoint sub tlvs as that information is already in the NLRI. Thanks, Nandan --94eb2c0ebb38647158055b290f7f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Eric,

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper= .net> wrote:
On 10/6/2017 10:38 AM, Nandan Saha wrote:
5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling.
In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence i= s
<<<
If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 supporting this document and that imports the route MU= ST consider
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-w= ithdraw" strategy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of [RFC7606]
>>>
Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is
<<<
A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger a reset of the BGP session
>>>
Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdra= w in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot par= se it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate.

 You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is = so mangled that you can't=C2=A0 continue to parse the TCP octet stream.=
If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal leng= ths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate.
To d= o a treat-as-withdraw, the receiver needs to be able to parse the NLRI to e= xtract the 3-tuple of {distinguisher, color, endpoint}. It cannot remove th= e policy from it's adj-Rib-in otherwise, as it's keyed on the 3-tup= le.
If the NLRI length < the valid length, then it's impos= sible to extract a valid 3-tuple.
If the NLRI length > the val= id length, then should the receiver extract upto the valid length?=C2=A0
In the general case rfc7606 section 3, point j, mentions that one n= eeds to be able to parse the NLRI to be able to do treat-as-withdraw.
=

Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be om= itted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, and= in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do with t= he SAFI being discussed.

1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present in= the Tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for acc= eptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end point= isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the N= LRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be do= ne only if both color and remote end point are present.

2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs in= the tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option = to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have= to make sure it matches the NLRI?

 I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps = draft.=C2=A0 (There has been some controversy on this point though.)
The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone f= rom including it.

The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it contai= ns contradictory information.
For a receiver of an upd= ate with the sr te safi and sr policy tunnel encap tlv, the source of truth= for the end point and color is in the NLRI. So the endpoint and color in t= he tunnel tlv doesn't add any new information. In fact, in the draft to= day the _only_ thing a receiver has to do with the color and endpoint in th= e tunnel encap tlv is to compare against the NLRI.=C2=A0
To m= e, it seems that things would be much simpler to simply ignore the contents= of the color and remote endpoint sub tlvs as that information is already i= n the NLRI.=C2=A0


Thanks,
Nandan

--94eb2c0ebb38647158055b290f7f-- From nobody Tue Oct 10 05:42:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D1F1332C8 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 05:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FHxc-KPd0b8S for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 05:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-f198.google.com (mail-pf0-f198.google.com [209.85.192.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 210E5132320 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 05:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-f198.google.com with SMTP id m63so15876373pfk.20 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 05:42:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=YVzrgQ+Qz4fkgIdXLw6TtyNTePzRw5k1OlhHMX64zao=; b=KkVqyk9GKbb7LntcxbPgH4doNfNzEwDGypUmLs8FamMuiwCWTyFtAWfXPY326DU58K gUOBhvBvXDyMWLiEN0aYmt/VHjPDdY2Oa6EQSmGwNBFTOnIzK29AQSJNgiyhZjrFdAS1 hedxB6hC8aBVhc8mXLG02PVU3HF5CtjLd1X0kUZZhb0gyWkga8xe1Kny5Z2DszmOTE3H 2omQfWiFJaYFglq68x1OBKNZZKpVMn2yvGSt7kGU3W5HF7mCZaShm4lwXXoxETOKEexK tZU1X8j6jhHb6qoWzd/BgTEWtQ+gTx2Mgh3Xt1CpOzU2bUi/ehAFCjo0xCbjU51CZbvb AJ1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXJCiM+WKg5zj/Ua8kzNPnsIHHi31GGFUS+bNBaMah92HrHcIii IICeqoH5tT2LSFkJLxlTMjKC7oLqEUhlBVcCGW52duUZUgD0gyK+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBvOr2iXb3NmWmW60145l69SZSjyQL2VxZKrKlAKmvRnQce1wb9xzEMoG5LSDZVwcphgTi26+LcjOhfcrpNgH3kq7jXbnfrfg== X-Received: by 10.36.31.142 with SMTP id d136mr7513911itd.23.1507639358498; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 05:42:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.132.232 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:09:52 +0530 Message-ID: From: Nandan Saha To: Eric C Rosen Cc: stefano previdi , idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c0de25a6b39055b290ffc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-07.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:42:42 -0000 --f403045c0de25a6b39055b290ffc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Eric, On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Eric C Rosen wrote: > On 10/6/2017 10:38 AM, Nandan Saha wrote: > >> 5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling. >> In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence is >> <<< >> If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router >> supporting this document and that imports the route MUST consider >> it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-withdraw" strategy >> of [RFC7606] >> >>> >> Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is >> <<< >> A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST >> trigger a reset of the BGP session >> >>> >> Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to >> treat-as-withdraw in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI >> if one cannot parse it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate. >> > > You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is > so mangled that you can't continue to parse the TCP octet stream. > If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal > lengths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate. > To do a treat-as-withdraw, the receiver needs to be able to parse the NLRI to extract the 3-tuple of {distinguisher, color, endpoint}. It cannot remove the policy from it's adj-Rib-in otherwise, as it's keyed on the 3-tuple. If the NLRI length < the valid length, then it's impossible to extract a valid 3-tuple. If the NLRI length > the valid length, then should the receiver extract upto the valid length? In the general case rfc7606 section 3, point j, mentions that one needs to be able to parse the NLRI to be able to do treat-as-withdraw. > > Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be > omitted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, > and in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do > with the SAFI being discussed. > > 1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present >> in the Tunnel encap tlv. >> Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for >> acceptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end >> point isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the >> NLRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be >> done only if both color and remote end point are present. >> >> 2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs >> in the tunnel encap tlv. >> The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option to >> also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have to >> make sure it matches the NLRI? >> > > I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps > draft. (There has been some controversy on this point though.) > The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone from > including it. > > The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it > contains contradictory information. > For a receiver of an update with the sr te safi and sr policy tunnel encap tlv, the source of truth for the end point and color is in the NLRI. So the endpoint and color in the tunnel tlv doesn't add any new information. In fact, in the draft today the _only_ thing a receiver has to do with the color and endpoint in the tunnel encap tlv is to compare against the NLRI. To me, it seems that things would be much simpler to simply ignore the contents of the color and remote endpoint sub tlvs as that information is already in the NLRI. Thanks, Nandan --f403045c0de25a6b39055b290ffc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Eric,

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper= .net> wrote:
On 10/6/2017 10:38 AM, Nandan Saha wrote:
5. Conflicting mandate for malformed NLRI handling.
In section 4.2.1 of this draft, the first bullet point's 2nd sentence i= s
<<<
If the NLRI is not one of the legal lengths, a router
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 supporting this document and that imports the route MU= ST consider
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it to be malformed and MUST apply the "treat-as-w= ithdraw" strategy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of [RFC7606]
>>>
Where as the last sentence in section 4.2.1 is
<<<
A unacceptable SR Policy update that has an invalid NLRI portion MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0trigger a reset of the BGP session
>>>
Can the draft be updated to simply remove the reference to treat-as-withdra= w in the first statement since one cannot withdraw a NLRI if one cannot par= se it; and also because it conflicts with the 2nd mandate.

 You do not want to trigger a reset of the BGP session unless the UPDATE is = so mangled that you can't=C2=A0 continue to parse the TCP octet stream.=
If the UPDATE is well-formed, but the NLRI is not one of the two legal leng= ths (12 or 24), treat-as-withdraw is appropriate.
To d= o a treat-as-withdraw, the receiver needs to be able to parse the NLRI to e= xtract the 3-tuple of {distinguisher, color, endpoint}. It cannot remove th= e policy from it's adj-Rib-in otherwise, as it's keyed on the 3-tup= le.
If the NLRI length < the valid length, then it's impos= sible to extract a valid 3-tuple.
If the NLRI length > the val= id length, then should the receiver extract upto the valid length?=C2=A0
In the general case rfc7606 section 3, point j, mentions that one n= eeds to be able to parse the NLRI to be able to do treat-as-withdraw.
=

Probably the sentence about triggering a reset of the BGP session can be om= itted, since that is only necessary when the UPDATE is totally mangled, and= in that case it is normal BGP behavior and nothing particular to do with t= he SAFI being discussed.

1. Behavior when only one of Color / Remote end point sub-tlv is present in= the Tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 Should the match on either color or remote end point be done for acc= eptance? For example the color sub-tlv is present, but the remote end point= isn't. So the color of the color sub-tlv must match the color in the N= LRI. Or should the condition for matching of color / remote end point be do= ne only if both color and remote end point are present.

2. What is the rationale for including remote end point / color sub tlvs in= the tunnel encap tlv.
=C2=A0 The NLRI already has the color and endpoint. Why is there an option = to also include a end point and color in the tunnel encap tlv and then have= to make sure it matches the NLRI?

 I believe the Remote Endpoint is mandatory, according to the tunnel-encaps = draft.=C2=A0 (There has been some controversy on this point though.)
The color sub-tlv is not mandatory, but you can't really stop someone f= rom including it.

The purpose of these rules is to cause a policy to be rejected if it contai= ns contradictory information.
For a receiver of an upd= ate with the sr te safi and sr policy tunnel encap tlv, the source of truth= for the end point and color is in the NLRI. So the endpoint and color in t= he tunnel tlv doesn't add any new information. In fact, in the draft to= day the _only_ thing a receiver has to do with the color and endpoint in th= e tunnel encap tlv is to compare against the NLRI.=C2=A0
To m= e, it seems that things would be much simpler to simply ignore the contents= of the color and remote endpoint sub tlvs as that information is already i= n the NLRI.=C2=A0


Thanks,
Nandan

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Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:31:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=BR8h2e2d6GwXrp1MVCNPYVY8dTqHsEp/Id/2YCUzxUo=; b=S97Jvp4MY6lCcWnM0SYSo0m8jyLvQXJi7Zb7h6OH9pRNiwZ267rrekea4/LF3tG+jFb+ZqKVI//CH3jOmswGQBFoVez73pBhYIuWNpu2omKYNUqG/9cemUFJK0H65NOOUV832TUHG1a9Ym85CwkvFr5NyJ2STeGUYm4vGHZhg5w= Authentication-Results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=erosen@juniper.net; Received: from [172.29.36.187] (66.129.241.14) by SN1PR05MB2301.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.169.125.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.5; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 15:31:44 +0000 To: Nandan Saha Cc: stefano previdi , idr@ietf.org References: <149824800169.17379.9099679082498238196@ietfa.amsl.com> <65dbb5ba-9589-09a6-8093-f5f7e72fc5f7@juniper.net> From: Eric C Rosen Message-ID: <2de18884-6670-e39d-a17b-d6c01b6e30ba@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 11:31:48 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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Yes, you are correct, RFC 7606 section 3 point j together with section 5.3 does seem to mandate that "session reset" or "AFI/SAFI disable" is the proper error handling response. From nobody Tue Oct 10 09:53:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2CFA134EBB for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:52:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dfjGycFKaLO8 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDB9213510C for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v9AGhSI7024934; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 17:43:28 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (62.192.112.87.dyn.plus.net [87.112.192.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v9AGhRlD024913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Oct 2017 17:43:28 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Jeff Tantsura'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" Cc: , References: <5021b09f13dd48468385583e31b0dd3e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 17:43:28 +0100 Message-ID: <03fb01d341e6$e6e99e70$b4bcdb50$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLsSp6/9z2TmpRg9BP7SuNJyisWtwIL/hG0AwV/fR8BkMpyEqB2JZpA Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23384.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--42.780-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--42.780-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 9vvqFUF7IWnW/bDrA6VrLX4f9De+CyQCPxXiWH/cMXUC5WKtSs0Iv0+z yRCAu91i4OxaxlOc4J3vaFFFh/+qoNcUNjoF7YuV+8AO9OcJ/m/4uJ1REX4MHeFtzfyKYkVBvql B4fqMN6SlXUU7yxjrIPaIgZUXBHUYm/FNQJtMghF2cLm5pLq1v1NDrIPosXvF9+Cxv5vwbwoM2b 9SLN604iN/GvIEBz8REVAqpT+ASb9Y08jGTVCttAz4VsCc1YW+oprEeoZHCQIwyfWtyopBqK0Ro mhWPJaQw4ZPMwcO9heWO1pAoWOSDpcqz3g0A4fynhHKNOYbLL5bAoaK+wS4jbrfxlRjqBJ3U3m+ JXAyVvAEPX3EhxdnYr/duX0pgBjTKyG2Dpa679qzI1v7J4hECoHYSO53TbTgwEz5jkq73mUuu9H toCYkWHrIXxviGvIMavq0oj6mbr4P7YVDZjlcy+YAh37ZsBDC6WNmYQcB5ExhOIJLkQ75WP4e8u mIMMidPTe4Or1oyA+Cu5K/DoutfCyHCOdCTVPdtLDu9qtqKeHtMsBKGEjbqbKeTtOdjMy6CPxTH CQe5Snk0G8Qxre9VQiT+uMyEXZCwM+yBrP9nY+puD25aEtgt/ioIsi7Sa0gsneuamRRT5M6W33U wHDV5uLzNWBegCW2XC3N7C7YzrftNz9YYotrJEnbrC9RP+JRBTmtD+MNluqOhzOa6g8KrZRMZUC EHkRt Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:52:55 -0000 In full agreement. Let's get the "early" allocation done using some nice clean codepoints from the good folk at IANA. John, what's the next step? A > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura > Sent: 06 October 2017 17:32 > To: Acee Lindem (acee) > Cc: idr@ietf.org; shares@ndzh.com > Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te- > policy > > +1 > Having code points allocated early would save early implementations from > changing later on, de-allocation for drafts that didn't make it should be quite > straightforward process. > > Regards, > Jeff > > > On Oct 6, 2017, at 04:28, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > > Hi John, Les, > > > > On 10/6/17, 1:53 AM, "Idr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > > wrote: > > > >> John - > >> > >> Thanx for the detailed analysis. > >> Inline. > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder > >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:17 PM > >>> To: idr@ietf.org > >>> Cc: shares@ndzh.com > >>> Subject: [Idr] Early allocation request for > >>> draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te- > >>> policy > >>> > >>> Hi WG, > >>> > >>> Over a month ago we had a request for early allocation of the code > >>> points in > >>> draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. I think that means the TBD > >>> code > >>> points listed in section 8.3, the Preference, Binding SID, and Segment > >>> List > >>> sub-TLVs, since all the rest have been properly allocated by IANA > >>> already. > >>> The draft appears to fulfill the requirements for early allocation, > >>> with one > >>> possible exception. > >>> > >>> RFC 7120 says > >>> > >>> c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if > >>> there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later > >>> specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. > >>> > >>> On the face of it the current version of the spec fulfills this > >>> requirement. I'm > >>> slightly concerned that up through draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te- > >>> policy-02, there were specific values given for > >>> > >>> o new sub-TLVs in the registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute > >>> sub-TLVs": > >>> > >>> Suggested Description Reference > >>> Value > >>> ----------------------------------------------------- > >>> 6 Preference sub-TLV This document > >>> 7 Binding SID sub-TLV This document > >>> 8 Segment List sub-TLV This document > >>> > >>> These values conflict with values allocated for other uses in the IANA > >>> registry. This was corrected quite some time ago, in -03 published > >>> December > >>> of 2016, which lists the values as "TBD" just as the current version > >>> does, so > >>> maybe there's no problem at all. > >>> > >>> I presume that if we proceed forward with early allocation, any > >>> pre-standard > >>> implementations will be updated to use whatever values IANA actually > >>> allocates -- which are sure not to be 6, 7 or 8 since those are already > >>> in use. If > >>> that's so, then fine. If not, then we may need to have a discussion > >>> about > >>> whether we really meet the "stability" requirement. > >>> > >> [Les:] It is quite useful I think to point out this fact - but I fail to > >> see how it is relevant to the early allocation decision. Given that we > >> know that these early codepoints are not available, I do not see that > >> delaying early allocation helps in any way. If there are implementations > >> that used these unassigned codepoints, the sooner we assign values the > >> sooner these implementations can be updated to use values which will be > >> interoperable - so if anything the facts argue that we should accelerate > >> early allocation - not delay it. > > > > I agree totally, we'll achieve nothing by delaying this any longer. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > > > > >> > >> ??? > >> > >> Les > >> > >> > >>> This begins a one-week period for discussion of the early allocation, > >>> which > >>> time period may be extended if conversation warrants it. For > >>> completeness, > >>> here's my evaluation of the full list of RFC 7120 criteria: > >>> > >>> a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC > >>> Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, > >>> requests for early assignment of code points from a > >>> "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the > >>> specification will be published as an RFC. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>> b. The format, semantics, processing, and other rules related to > >>> handling the protocol entities defined by the code points > >>> (henceforth called "specifications") must be adequately described > >>> in an Internet-Draft. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>> c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if > >>> there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later > >>> specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. > >>> > >>> Tentatively yes but see above. > >>> > >>> d. The Working Group chairs and Area Directors (ADs) judge that > >>> there is sufficient interest in the community for early (pre-RFC) > >>> implementation and deployment, or that failure to make an early > >>> allocation might lead to contention for the code point in the > >>> field. > >>> > >>> Yes. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> --John > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Idr mailing list > >>> Idr@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Idr mailing list > >> Idr@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Tue Oct 10 18:35:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0DE13234B; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:35:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150768574468.24719.16820382704767529937@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:35:44 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-08.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:35:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Bestpath Selection Criteria Enhancement Author : Rajiv Asati Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-08.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2017-10-10 Abstract: BGP specification [RFC4271] prescribes 'BGP next-hop reachability' as one of the key 'Route Resolvability Condition' that must be satisfied before the BGP bestpath candidate selection. This condition, however, may not be sufficient (as explained in the Appendix section) and desire further granularity. This document defines enhances the "Route Resolvability Condition" to facilitate the next-hop to be resolved in the chosen data plane. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 11 06:36:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15490132697 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 06:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CjvyiUNgecO7 for ; Wed, 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(Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: John Scudder , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 Thread-Index: AQHTQskqEYadD9tT4kGf4GJ8ScL2Zw== Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:43:08 +0000 Message-ID: <76A686FA-A497-4182-B528-5D4156AD3026@nokia.com> References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 x-originating-ip: [135.245.20.15] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM4PR07MB1410; 6:6IY7wNNKW/zNTgBSD6aI4Qf+sb1ZwelLskvK8eKXSK1wmUh+zFzwSR0B+DN0sU7wzgg51on0JNKt4rMquU/Cfsg3uwNCUuNy2injrvIguTCfxtUV++JHZ/SfZynC5Ln6zDcY8ZYhULVfLuvoVgj0hMxLO3Zft14UBOjXIDzhmr5oU4MP1uOswj2iR5p4LZCnAqDTXOu/UENnEPo9UVqEIDrXS5cNQbjlvRykHxP6h6LeK4TDjTWhrKd/kikmJG9q9/dLzAHvOWmP7R1s7OmVUJ1cpAipCC5Wf6uw1e/qoxhqgQuFiWoGWuLcJW8Xk8ZggQlBJrvnayYe9w78AlkQnQ==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM4PR07MB1410; H:AM4PR07MB1412.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Oct 2017 19:43:08.6505 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR07MB1410 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:43:13 -0000 U3VwcG9ydC4NCg0KT24gMjAxNy0xMC0wNiwgMTozOSBQTSwgIklkciBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgSm9o biBTY3VkZGVyIiA8aWRyLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGpnc0BqdW5pcGVy Lm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCiAgICBIaSBBbGwsDQogICAgDQogICAgQSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGxh c3QgY2FsbCBoYXMgYmVlbiByZXF1ZXN0ZWQgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaWRyLXJmYzU1NzViaXMt MDQuIFBsZWFzZSByZXBseSB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCB3aXRoIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMuIEFzIHVzdWFs IG5vdGUgd2UgY2Fubm90IGFkdmFuY2UgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IHdpdGhvdXQgcGFydGljaXBhdGlvbiBm cm9tIHRoZSBncm91cC4gUGxlYXNlIGdldCB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnRzIGluIGJlZm9yZSBPY3RvYmVy IDIwLCAyMDE3Lg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEF1dGhvcnMsIHBsZWFzZSBjb25maXJtIHRoYXQgYW55IHJl bGV2YW50IElQUiBoYXMgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQuIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMu aWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlkci1yZmM1NTc1YmlzLTA0DQogICAgDQogICAgVGhh bmtzLA0KICAgIA0KICAgIC0tSm9obg0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgSWRyIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIElkckBpZXRmLm9y Zw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWRyDQogICAgDQoN Cg== From nobody Thu Oct 12 10:13:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC2A134558 for ; 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charset=us-ascii On Oct 12, 2017, at 1:13 PM, John G. Scudder wrote: > We have all needed approvals and have forwarded the request to IANA. = I'l update the list when the allocation has been completed. And, done. 12 Preference sub-TLV (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-10-12, expires = 2018-10-12) [draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy] 13 Binding SID sub-TLV (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-10-12, expires = 2018-10-12) [draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy] 128 Segment List sub-TLV (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-10-12, expires = 2018-10-12) [draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy] = https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunne= l-sub-tlvs Kudos to IANA for turning their part around in 47 minutes. By the way, = this kind of turnaround time is a big part of why I'm becoming so = enthusiastic about FCFS as an allocation policy. --John= --Apple-Mail=_8C10C6F4-E8FF-419F-BF14-E8E406F3B485 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Oct 12, 2017, at 1:13 PM, John G. Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> = wrote:
We have all needed approvals and = have forwarded the request to IANA. I'l update the list when the = allocation has been completed.

And, = done.

12 = Preference sub-TLV (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-10-12, expires = 2018-10-12) = [draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy]

13 = Binding SID sub-TLV (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-10-12, expires = 2018-10-12) = [draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy]

128 Segment List sub-TLV (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-10-12, = expires 2018-10-12) [draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy]

https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.= xhtml#tunnel-sub-tlvs

Kudos to IANA for turning their part around in 47 minutes. By = the way, this kind of turnaround time is a big part of why I'm becoming = so enthusiastic about FCFS as an allocation policy.

--John
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Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "shares@ndzh.com" , "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy Thread-Index: AQHTQ4WW/q8r7w5cyU2z6Fh49WIedg== Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:11:55 +0000 Message-ID: <2CAC3902-75E2-4013-830C-32B16E2E5281@cisco.com> References: <6E748940-6D54-465D-96A9-B5DF6AFEC4B9@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.160.150] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2CAC390275E24013830C32B16E2E5281ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Early allocation request for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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([2001:470:8:adc:84a6:fcff:1575:4c58]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i92sm479500qtb.65.2017.10.13.05.29.16 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Oct 2017 05:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Justin Ryburn From: Justin Ryburn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5621CEA3-3EC8-4DB1-9741-FC30736EA754" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.0 \(3445.1.7\)) Message-Id: <110FA24F-EEBD-4923-BC20-FF2457A0FA7B@ryburn.org> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:29:15 -0500 To: idr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.1.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:30:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5621CEA3-3EC8-4DB1-9741-FC30736EA754 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Support. -Justin > On Oct 6, 2017, at 17:39, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A working group last call has been requested for = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your = comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without = participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October = 20, 2017. >=20 > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20 >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04 = >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > --John --Apple-Mail=_5621CEA3-3EC8-4DB1-9741-FC30736EA754 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii 
Support.
-Justin
On Oct 6, 2017, at 17:39, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net> =
wrote:
Hi All,

A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your =
comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04

Thanks,

--John

=

--Apple-Mail=_5621CEA3-3EC8-4DB1-9741-FC30736EA754--


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From: "Gaurav Dawra (gdawra)" 
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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Hi All,

It seems to me as though Robert and Job agreed on the proposed text =
below, or something like it. If so, I suggest the authors update the =
draft and publish as -15, so the WG knows what we're talking about.

Speaking for myself, I don't object to the proposed clarification but it =
seems to me this draft isn't strictly speaking the right place for it =
since it amounts to a correction of an underspecification in RFC 4271. =
That underspecification affects all BGP implementations, not just ORR. =
Of course, most implementors "just knew" to do the obviously right =
thing, but apparently Job has encountered one implementor who didn't. =
It's tempting to criticize the implementor, but IMO the right target of =
criticism is the spec.=20

Specifically I think the underspecification in RFC 4271 is in 9.1.2.2 =
(e), the definition of interior cost. 9.1.2.1 is actually quite careful =
to talk about recursive resolution, but unfortunately that care wasn't =
extended to talking about the interior cost. (The final "similarly..." =
sentence in the proposed text is strictly speaking redundant with =
9.1.2.1.)

Even though this draft isn't the right place to correct the weakness in =
RFC 4271, since every BGP implementation should get this right, not just =
ORR implementations, I don't see harm in doing it here.

--John

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Job Snijders  wrote:
>=20
> On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 05:56:44PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>> I think you are overestimating the impact of the proposed change.
>>=20
>> It would be helpful to hear from vendors how propagating to BGP an =
IGP
>> metric in the scenario of N-level of recursion is easy or hard for
>> them.
>=20
> I think the number of BGP implementations that can't do BGP to BGP to
> IGP recursion is extremely small, it'll be mostly the implementations
> that don't support the IGP or already operate without RIB.
>=20
>>> The fact that they released software without this capacity, implies
>>> draft has ambiguity which causes operational inconsistency in best
>>> path algortihm (with possibility for blackholing).
>>=20
>> Ok in such a case I don't see any problem of addressing the ambiguity
>> with the below sentence added to section 4.1:
>>=20
>> Current text:
>>=20
>>   "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during
>>   best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison
>>   step."
>>=20
>> New text:
>>=20
>>   "In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during
>>   best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison
>>   step.
>>=20
>>   In the scenario of BGP route's next hop resolving via N level
>>   recursion the metric used for given path's comparison (provided
>>   implementation supports it) should be equal to IGP metric of the
>>   final IGP route the N level recursion resolves via. Similarly next
>>   hop reachability validation should be based on the state of such
>>   IGP route."
>>=20
>> Would WG and yourself be fine with this change ?
>=20
> I think some wordsmithing may be needed to improve the readability. =
The
> word 'recursion' or 'recursive lookup' should probably be used.
>=20
> NEW:
>=20
>    """
>    In this document we refer to optimal as the decision made during
>    best path selection at the IGP metric to BGP next hop comparison
>    step.
>=20
>    In the scenario where a path's BGP next-hop can only be resolved
>    through multi-level recursion, the metric used for a given path's
>    comparison SHOULD be equal to the IGP metric of the final IGP route
>    the recursive lookup resulted in. Similarly, next-hop reachability
>    validation should be based on the state of such IGP route.
>    """
>=20
>> The only problem is what to do if implementation can not propagate
>> such metric .. should the N-level recursive path be less preferred =
and
>> assumed having max metric in such cases ?
>=20
> Good question, 'assuming max metric' will at least prevent certain
> blackholes compared to 'not announcing'. Vendors may want to chip in
> here on what their implementation does. The document will be better =
off
> if we highlight this problem and make a recommendation (such as 'treat
> as less preferred').
>=20
> Kind regards,
>=20
> Job


From nobody Fri Oct 13 10:56:04 2017
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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Paging through the discussion so far, I see exactly one person, Job =
Snijders, has expressed what I interpret as support for publishing the =
document. I presume the authors support it, and nobody has expressed =
opposition. However, it would be quite helpful if there were more =
contributions, whether to say "ship it", or "needs more work", or =
whatever.

Thanks,

--John

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. =
We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list =
with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
>=20
> =
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html=
_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=3DDwICAg&c=
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>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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Hi All,

An update on this one -- in addition to the authors' assumed and in one =
case explicit support, I see support for advancing the doc from Adam =
Simpson, Justin Ryburn, Gaurav Dawra and Gunter Van De Velde. There =
haven't been any technical suggestions or opposition to advancement.

As a reminder, the comment period runs for one more week.

Thanks,

--John
=20
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:39 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your =
comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
>=20
> =
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html=
_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Drfc5575bis-2D04&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0U=
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=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org


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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:13:39 +0100
From: Nick Hilliard 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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John G. Scudder wrote:
> Paging through the discussion so far, I see exactly one person, Job
> Snijders, has expressed what I interpret as support for publishing
> the document. I presume the authors support it, and nobody has
> expressed opposition. However, it would be quite helpful if there
> were more contributions, whether to say "ship it", or "needs more
> work", or whatever.

We are being slack.

ORR is ridiculously useful and we've needed it for years. Full support
for the doc (+ implementation clarification).

Nick


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From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" 
To: Nick Hilliard , "John G. Scudder" 
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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From: "Serpil Bayraktar (serpil)" 
To: "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:37:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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From: "Manish Bhardwaj (manbhard)" 
To: "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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Support.

-Manish.

On 10/13/17, 10:55 AM, "Idr on behalf of John G. Scudder"
 wrote:

>Paging through the discussion so far, I see exactly one person, Job
>Snijders, has expressed what I interpret as support for publishing the
>document. I presume the authors support it, and nobody has expressed
>opposition. However, it would be quite helpful if there were more
>contributions, whether to say "ship it", or "needs more work", or
>whatever.
>
>Thanks,
>
>--John
>
>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi All,
>>=20
>> (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We
>>will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
>>=20
>> A working group last call has been requested for
>>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list
>>with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without
>>participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October
>>20, 2017.
>>=20
>> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.
>>=20
>>=20
>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_htm=
l_
>>draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=3DDwICAg&c=
=3DH
>>AkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DhLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&m=
=3D2T8
>>sWKXOuk1R-CTDDPFM8HO_a6AbOHGOseJ81Ht9_4Q&s=3DyunFv1zXtd-bLp5IQGspvPZQYpLt=
AF
>>tcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=3D=20
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> --John
>
>_______________________________________________
>Idr mailing list
>Idr@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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Archived-At: 
Subject: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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Hi Everyone,

On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20


I was just told by Serpil Bayraktar that Cisco has IPR related to this =
spec. She is working with their legal department to disclose it, and of =
course as soon as the disclosure is available we'll notify the WG.

Naturally we will keep the WGLC open until the IPR disclosure has been =
published and the WG has had a chance to consider it.

I want to thank Serpil for her diligence in bringing this to my =
attention as soon as she became aware of it. This is as good a time as =
any to remind everyone of the Note Well we all see multiple times per =
meeting as well as when we sign up for a mailing list: =
https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html. In particular, see =
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8179.txt, "Intellectual Property =
Rights in IETF Technology", which is linked from the Note Well, which =
describes the who, what and when in detail. Let me quote the beginning =
of the Note Well here:

"Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication =
as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made =
within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF =
Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, =
as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or =
place..."

and so on.

While we're at it, I will note that four of the authors -- Robert =
Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, and Adam Chappell -- have said they =
didn't know of any IPR, so presumably this comes as a surprise to them. =
I have not seen replies to this question from Stephane Litkowski, =
Christian Cassar or Kevin Wang yet, I've cc'd them.=20

Regards,

--John=


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From: Kevin F Wang 
To: John Scudder , "idr@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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From: Keyur Patel 
To: "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> 
From: Robert Raszuk 
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:31:43 +0200
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To: "John G. Scudder" 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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--94eb2c1931fa29fa5d055b746227
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Hi John and WG,

Thank you for your note.

While I am still in process of getting full clarification from Cisco on
what has been filed without authors knowledge I think the message you got
from Serpil is incorrect.

To the best of my current understanding cisco filed some patents with
claims describing implementation solutions used to implement ideas from ORR
document not to claim IPR rights to such ideas itself.

Both are very different and I do not understand while the former would in
any way impact the IETF process.

Kind regards,
Robert.


On Oct 13, 2017 4:53 PM, "John G. Scudder"  wrote:

Hi Everyone,

On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.


I was just told by Serpil Bayraktar that Cisco has IPR related to this
spec. She is working with their legal department to disclose it, and of
course as soon as the disclosure is available we'll notify the WG.

Naturally we will keep the WGLC open until the IPR disclosure has been
published and the WG has had a chance to consider it.

I want to thank Serpil for her diligence in bringing this to my attention
as soon as she became aware of it. This is as good a time as any to remind
everyone of the Note Well we all see multiple times per meeting as well as
when we sign up for a mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/about/not
e-well.html. In particular, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8179.txt,
"Intellectual Property Rights in IETF Technology", which is linked from the
Note Well, which describes the who, what and when in detail. Let me quote
the beginning of the Note Well here:

"Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication as
all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made within
the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contribution". Such
statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, as well as written and
electronic communications made at any time or place..."

and so on.

While we're at it, I will note that four of the authors -- Robert Raszuk,
Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, and Adam Chappell -- have said they didn't know
of any IPR, so presumably this comes as a surprise to them. I have not seen
replies to this question from Stephane Litkowski, Christian Cassar or Kevin
Wang yet, I've cc'd them.

Regards,

--John
_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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Hi John and WG,

Thank you for your note.=C2=A0

While I am still in process of getting full clarification from C=
isco on what has been filed without authors knowledge I think the message y=
ou got from Serpil is incorrect.

To the best of my current understanding cisco filed some patents =
with claims describing implementation solutions used to implement ideas fro=
m ORR document not to claim IPR rights to such ideas itself.

Both are very different and I do not =
understand while the former would in any way impact the IETF process.
=


Kind regards,
Robert.


On Oct 13, 2017 4:53 PM, "John G. Scudder"=
 <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Everyone,



On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:

> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.





I was just told by Serpil Bayraktar that Cisco has IPR related to this spec=
. She is working with their legal department to disclose it, and of course =
as soon as the disclosure is available we'll notify the WG.



Naturally we will keep the WGLC open until the IPR disclosure has been publ=
ished and the WG has had a chance to consider it.



I want to thank Serpil for her diligence in bringing this to my attention a=
s soon as she became aware of it. This is as good a time as any to remind e=
veryone of the Note Well we all see multiple times per meeting as well as w=
hen we sign up for a mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/abo=
ut/note-well.html. In particular, see https://www=
.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8179.txt, "Intellectual Property Right=
s in IETF Technology", which is linked from the Note Well, which descr=
ibes the who, what and when in detail. Let me quote the beginning of the No=
te Well here:



"Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publicatio=
n as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made wi=
thin the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contributi=
on". Such statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, as well=
 as written and electronic communications made at any time or place..."=
;



and so on.



While we're at it, I will note that four of the authors -- Robert Raszu=
k, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, and Adam Chappell -- have said they didn'=
t know of any IPR, so presumably this comes as a surprise to them. I have n=
ot seen replies to this question from Stephane Litkowski, Christian Cassar =
or Kevin Wang yet, I've cc'd them.



Regards,



--John

_______________________________________________

Idr mailing list

Idr@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr





--94eb2c1931fa29fa5d055b746227--


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From: "Serpil Bayraktar (serpil)" 
To: Robert Raszuk , "John G. Scudder" 
CC: idr wg , Kevin Wang 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
Thread-Index: AQHTRGq1UVAdmydbqkyaW8+3ukbEzaLiNZ0A
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:09:54 +0000
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From: John Scudder 
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:18:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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From nobody Sat Oct 14 08:34:11 2017
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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:34:02 +0200
From: Job Snijders 
To: John Scudder 
Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 01:39:04PM -0400, John Scudder wrote:
> A working group last call has been requested for
> draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your
> comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without
> participation from the group. Please get your comments in before
> October 20, 2017.
> 
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. 
> 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04

I read the document and support publication.

Some comments: 

s/automate of inter-domain/automate inter-domain/
s/application which control/applications which control/
s/Some of deployments of these/Some deployments of these/

I see use of the strings 'flowspec', 'flow-spec' and 'flow spec'; which
one is the preferred one to use? :)

section 4.2.3
OLD:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce "less or
       equal", "greater or equal", and inequality values.
NEW:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce common
      relational operators such as "less or equal", "greater or equal",
      and "not equal to".

section 5.1:
    I have trouble parsing: "For IP prefix values (IP destination and source
    prefix) precedence is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix
    length;"

    If a packet destined for 10.5.0.1 is covered by a rule for
    destination 10.0.0.0/8 and a rule covering destination 10.5.0.0/24 -
    the 10.0.0.0/8 rule would 'win' because '10.0.0.0' is a lower IP
    value?

    Another question, and I realise this is a big ask: Is it possible to
    replace the pseudocode with an actual code example? Pseudo languages
    tend to not follow any specific set of rules and therefor oftentimes
    are hard to read. Awk, lua, python, ruby, perl, or really anything
    that actually can be compiled and inspected would be better than
    pseudocode. I've been part of discussions where we tried to
    deconstruct the pseudocode author's intentions and rules of
    precedence.

Section 13: remove 'Note: Any original author...' ?

This concludes my review, thank you for your work on this document.

Kind regards,

Job


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In-Reply-To: 
References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net>   
From: Robert Raszuk 
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 22:54:59 +0200
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To: "Serpil Bayraktar (serpil)" 
Cc: "John G. Scudder" , idr wg , Kevin Wang 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0820b50897fd91055b87fc9f"
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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Hi Serpil,

To me this looks very clear.

You have filed 2 patents in 2015 describing an idea which was invented by
completely different set of inventors in 2010-2011 without even sharing
this information with the original authors.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160248663A1/

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170104676A1/

You have also filed a 3rd patent in 2015 which documents your
implementation innovation to automatically allocate a logical IGP root
based on the client address. Cool innovation, but as this is not part of
the current document it is irrelevant to this discussion.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160248658A1/

To me the next steps are obvious:

Option 1 - Cisco formally discloses the first two patents and IDR WG will
decided if this is of any barrier to progress the document further

Option 2 - Cisco withdraws those two patents

Thx,
Robert.


On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:09 AM, Serpil Bayraktar (serpil) <
serpil@cisco.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hey Robert,
>
>
>
> I think there is a big misunderstanding here. I have the data to back up
> what I said. The question is how do we go about discussing and resolving it
> gracefully. I am happy to provide the data and work with you and John
> towards a resolution.
>
>
>
> Serpil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Idr  on behalf of Robert Raszuk <
> robert@raszuk.net>
> *Date: *Friday, October 13, 2017 at 2:32 PM
> *To: *"John G. Scudder" 
> *Cc: *idr wg , Kevin Wang 
> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
> [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
>
>
>
> Hi John and WG,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your note.
>
>
>
> While I am still in process of getting full clarification from Cisco on
> what has been filed without authors knowledge I think the message you got
> from Serpil is incorrect.
>
>
>
> To the best of my current understanding cisco filed some patents with
> claims describing implementation solutions used to implement ideas from ORR
> document not to claim IPR rights to such ideas itself.
>
>
>
> Both are very different and I do not understand while the former would in
> any way impact the IETF process.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Robert.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 13, 2017 4:53 PM, "John G. Scudder"  wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
> > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.
>
>
> I was just told by Serpil Bayraktar that Cisco has IPR related to this
> spec. She is working with their legal department to disclose it, and of
> course as soon as the disclosure is available we'll notify the WG.
>
> Naturally we will keep the WGLC open until the IPR disclosure has been
> published and the WG has had a chance to consider it.
>
> I want to thank Serpil for her diligence in bringing this to my attention
> as soon as she became aware of it. This is as good a time as any to remind
> everyone of the Note Well we all see multiple times per meeting as well as
> when we sign up for a mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/about/
> note-well.html. In particular, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/
> rfc/rfc8179.txt, "Intellectual Property Rights in IETF Technology", which
> is linked from the Note Well, which describes the who, what and when in
> detail. Let me quote the beginning of the Note Well here:
>
> "Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication as
> all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made within
> the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contribution". Such
> statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, as well as written and
> electronic communications made at any time or place..."
>
> and so on.
>
> While we're at it, I will note that four of the authors -- Robert Raszuk,
> Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, and Adam Chappell -- have said they didn't know
> of any IPR, so presumably this comes as a surprise to them. I have not seen
> replies to this question from Stephane Litkowski, Christian Cassar or Kevin
> Wang yet, I've cc'd them.
>
> Regards,
>
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>
>

--089e0820b50897fd91055b87fc9f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Serpil,

=

To me this looks very clear.=C2=A0

You have filed 2 patents in 2015 desc=
ribing an idea which was invented by completely different set of inventors =
in 2010-2011 without even sharing this information with the original author=
s.=C2=A0

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2016024866=
3A1/

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170104676A1=
/

You have also filed a 3rd patent in 2015=
 which documents your implementation innovation to automatically allocate a=
 logical IGP root based on the client address. Cool innovation, but as this=
 is not part of the current document it is irrelevant to this discussion.=
=C2=A0

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160248658A1/

To me the next steps are obvious:=C2=A0

Option 1 - Cisco formally discloses the first two pate=
nts and IDR WG will decided if this is of any barrier to progress the docum=
ent further

Option 2 - Cisco withdraws those two p=
atents=C2=A0

Thx,<=
/div>
Robert.


On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at =
12:09 AM, Serpil Bayraktar (serpil) <serpil@cisco.com> wrote:=














=C2=A0


Hey Robert,


=C2=A0


I think there is a big misunderstanding here. I have=
 the data to back up what I said. The question is how do we go about discus=
sing and resolving it gracefully. I am happy to provide the data and work w=
ith you and John towards a resolution.


=C2=A0


Serpil 


=C2=A0


=C2=A0


=C2=A0




From=
: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org=
> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>

Date: Friday, October 13, 2017 at 2:32 PM

To: "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>

Cc: idr wg <idr=
@ietf.org>, Kevin Wang <kfwang@juniper.net>

Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-refl=
ection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflecti=
on-14]






=C2=A0






Hi John and WG, 




=C2=A0






Thank you for your note.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






While I am still in process of getting full clarific=
ation from Cisco on what has been filed without authors knowledge I think t=
he message you got from Serpil is incorrect.






=C2=A0






To the best of my current understanding cisco filed =
some patents with claims describing implementation solutions used to implem=
ent ideas from ORR document not to claim IPR rights to such ideas itself.






=C2=A0






Both are very different and I do not understand whil=
e the former would in any way impact the IETF process.






=C2=A0






Kind regards,






Robert.




=C2=A0




=C2=A0




On Oct 13, 2017 4:53 PM, "John G. Scudder"=
 <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:




Hi Everyone,



On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:

> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.





I was just told by Serpil Bayraktar that Cisco has IPR related to this spec=
. She is working with their legal department to disclose it, and of course =
as soon as the disclosure is available we'll notify the WG.



Naturally we will keep the WGLC open until the IPR disclosure has been publ=
ished and the WG has had a chance to consider it.



I want to thank Serpil for her diligence in bringing this to my attention a=
s soon as she became aware of it. This is as good a time as any to remind e=
veryone of the Note Well we all see multiple times per meeting as well as w=
hen we sign up for a mailing list:
htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html. In particular, see
ht=
tps://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8179.txt, "Intellectual Prope=
rty Rights in IETF Technology", which is linked from the Note Well, wh=
ich describes the who, what and when in detail. Let
 me quote the beginning of the Note Well here:



"Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publicatio=
n as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made wi=
thin the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contributi=
on". Such statements include oral statements
 in IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at=
 any time or place..."



and so on.



While we're at it, I will note that four of the authors -- Robert Raszu=
k, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, and Adam Chappell -- have said they didn'=
t know of any IPR, so presumably this comes as a surprise to them. I have n=
ot seen replies to this question from Stephane
 Litkowski, Christian Cassar or Kevin Wang yet, I've cc'd them.



Regards,



--John

_______________________________________________

Idr mailing list

Idr@ietf.org

htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr






=C2=A0














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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Optimal Route Reflection (BGP-ORR)
        Authors         : Robert Raszuk
                          Christian Cassar
                          Erik Aman
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Kevin Wang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2017-10-14

Abstract:
   This document proposes a solution for BGP route reflectors to allow
   them to choose the best path for their clients that the clients
   themselves would have chosen under the same conditions, without
   requiring further state or any new features to be placed on the
   clients.  This facilitates, for example, best exit point policy (hot
   potato routing).  This solution is primarily applicable in
   deployments using centralized route reflectors.

   The solution relies upon all route reflectors learning all paths
   which are eligible for consideration.  Best path selection is
   performed in each route reflector based on a configured virtual
   location in the IGP.  The location can be the same for all clients or
   different per peer/update group or per peer.  Best path selection can
   also be performed based on user configured policies in each route
   reflector.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Hi Job,

Thanks for you excellent feedback on this draft.

See my comments inline.


> On 14 Oct 2017, at 17:34, Job Snijders  wrote:
> I read the document and support publication.
>=20
> Some comments:
>=20
> s/automate of inter-domain/automate inter-domain/
> s/application which control/applications which control/
> s/Some of deployments of these/Some deployments of these/

Noted for a update that I will publish by the end of the week.

> I see use of the strings 'flowspec', 'flow-spec' and 'flow spec'; =
which
> one is the preferred one to use? :)

I was looking into configurations of different manufacturers, =
documentations, =E2=80=A6 there is a mix of flow, flow-spec, flowspec in =
various documents. I suggest to use =E2=80=9Cflowspec=E2=80=9D since =
this seems to have the widest spread already in most of the =
documentation found on the web.

> section 4.2.3
> OLD:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce "less or
>       equal", "greater or equal", and inequality values.
> NEW:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce common
>      relational operators such as "less or equal", "greater or equal",
>      and "not equal to=E2=80=9D.

I understand that your major point here is that the bit combinations =
produce an _operator_ not a _value_, which is true.

>=20
> section 5.1:
>    I have trouble parsing: "For IP prefix values (IP destination and =
source
>    prefix) precedence is given to the lowest IP value of the common =
prefix
>    length;=E2=80=9D

Same with me - I try to come up with something better but it still lacks =
a definition what the common prefix is (I will need some more time to =
think about this):

For IP prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) the common =
prefixes are compared (common prefix: the prefixes up to the minimal =
prefix-length those two share). If those are equal the prefix with the =
longer prefix-length has higher precedence. If the common prefix is =
different the one with the lowest IP value has higher precedence.

-> Maybe we can even put it this way - I need to spend more time to =
think if this is equal to the above definition, but looks _much_ more =
elegant (what do you think?):

If the prefixes are overlapping, the one with the longer prefix-length =
has higher precedence. If they are not overlapping the one with the =
lowest IP value has higher precedence.

>=20
>    If a packet destined for 10.5.0.1 is covered by a rule for
>    destination 10.0.0.0/8 and a rule covering destination 10.5.0.0/24 =
-
>    the 10.0.0.0/8 rule would 'win' because '10.0.0.0' is a lower IP
>    value?

No. What actually should happen is:

1) compare the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D prefix (in this case the common =
prefix length =3D 8)

10.0.0.0/8 =3D=3D 10.5.0.0/8 -> the common prefix is equal.

2) if the common prefix is equal (which is the case) the prefix with the =
longest match takes precedence:

10.0.0.0/8 <- 8 bit
10.5.0.0/24 <- 24 bit <- this one wins!

Another example:

9.0.0.0/8 vs 10.5.0.0/24

1) compare the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D prefix (in this case the common =
prefix length =3D 8)

9.0.0.0/8 =3D=3D 10.5.0.0/24 -> the common prefix is _not_ equal

2) lower value takes precedence:

9.0.0.0 < 10.5.0.0/24

9.0.0.0/8 wins!


>    Another question, and I realise this is a big ask: Is it possible =
to
>    replace the pseudocode with an actual code example? Pseudo =
languages
>    tend to not follow any specific set of rules and therefor =
oftentimes
>    are hard to read. Awk, lua, python, ruby, perl, or really anything
>    that actually can be compiled and inspected would be better than
>    pseudocode. I've been part of discussions where we tried to
>    deconstruct the pseudocode author's intentions and rules of
>    precedence.

I also think that actual code that can be interpreted/compiled may be =
helpful in some cases. The complexity of such a code may sometimes not =
be very beneficial and some of the environment (variables, modules, =
helper-functions=E2=80=A6)  needed to actually run the code may just not =
fit into such a draft.

However, I uploaded a python-script containing a python version of the =
flow_rule_cmp(a, b) plus unit-test with 100% code coverage:

https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp/blob/master/flow-cmp.py =


IF the group thinks we shall use this - please carefully analyse the =
behaviour. I am sure I have hidden some bugs in there and I am sure it =
is possible to beautify what I came up with (I am not the programmer).

> Section 13: remove 'Note: Any original author=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99

Can/should be done, if no objections.

> This concludes my review, thank you for your work on this document.

Thanks a lot for reading thru this.

Cheers Christoph

--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at



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Hi Job,

Thanks for you excellent feedback on this draft.

See my comments =
inline.


On =
14 Oct 2017, at 17:34, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
I read the document and support publication.

Some comments: 

s/automate of =
inter-domain/automate inter-domain/
s/application which =
control/applications which control/
s/Some of deployments =
of these/Some deployments of these/

Noted for =
a update that I will publish by the end of the week.

I see use of the strings =
'flowspec', 'flow-spec' and 'flow spec'; which
one is the =
preferred one to use? :)

I was looking into configurations of different =
manufacturers, documentations, =E2=80=A6 there is a mix of flow, =
flow-spec, flowspec in various documents. I suggest to use =
=E2=80=9Cflowspec=E2=80=9D since this seems to have the widest spread =
already in most of the documentation found on the web.

section 4.2.3
OLD:  The bits lt, gt, and =
eq can be combined to produce "less or
 =
      equal", "greater or equal", and =
inequality values.
NEW:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can =
be combined to produce common
 =
     relational operators such as "less or =
equal", "greater or equal",
 =
     and "not equal to=E2=80=9D.

I =
understand that your major point here is that the bit combinations =
produce an _operator_ not a _value_, which is true.


section 5.1:
 =
   I have trouble parsing: "For IP prefix values (IP =
destination and source
    prefix) =
precedence is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix
 =
   length;=E2=80=9D

Same with me - I try to come up with something =
better but it still lacks a definition what the common prefix is (I will =
need some more time to think about this):

For IP prefix values (IP destination and source =
prefix) the common prefixes are compared (common prefix: the prefixes up =
to the minimal prefix-length those two share). If those are equal the =
prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher precedence. If the =
common prefix is different the one with the lowest IP value has higher =
precedence.

-> Maybe we can even =
put it this way - I need to spend more time to think if this is equal to =
the above definition, but looks _much_ more elegant (what do you =
think?):

If the prefixes are =
overlapping, the one with the longer prefix-length has higher =
precedence. If they are not overlapping the one with the lowest IP value =
has higher precedence. 


 =
   If a packet destined for 10.5.0.1 is covered by a rule =
for
    destination 10.0.0.0/8 and a rule =
covering destination 10.5.0.0/24 -
    the =
10.0.0.0/8 rule would 'win' because '10.0.0.0' is a lower IP
    value?

No. =
What actually should happen is:

1) =
compare the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D prefix (in this case the common =
prefix length =3D 8)

10.0.0.0/8 =3D=3D=
 10.5.0.0/8 -> the common prefix is equal.

2) if the common prefix is equal (which is the =
case) the prefix with the longest match takes precedence:

10.0.0.0/8 <- 8 bit 
10.5.0.0/24 =
<- 24 bit <- this one wins!

Another example:

9.0.0.0/8 vs 10.5.0.0/24

1) compare the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D prefix (in =
this case the common prefix length =3D 8)

9.0.0.0/8 =3D=3D 10.5.0.0/24 -> the common =
prefix is _not_ equal

2) lower value =
takes precedence:

9.0.0.0 < =
10.5.0.0/24 

9.0.0.0/8 =
wins!


  =
 Another question, and I realise this is a big ask: Is it possible =
to
    replace the pseudocode with an =
actual code example? Pseudo languages
 =
   tend to not follow any specific set of rules and =
therefor oftentimes
    are hard to read. =
Awk, lua, python, ruby, perl, or really anything
 =
   that actually can be compiled and inspected would be =
better than
    pseudocode. I've been part =
of discussions where we tried to
 =
   deconstruct the pseudocode author's intentions and =
rules of
    precedence.

I also think that actual code that can be =
interpreted/compiled may be helpful in some cases. The complexity of =
such a code may sometimes not be very beneficial and some of the =
environment (variables, modules, helper-functions=E2=80=A6)  needed =
to actually run the code may just not fit into such a =
draft.

However, I uploaded a python-script =
containing a python version of =
the flow_rule_cmp(a, b) plus unit-test with 100% code =
coverage:


IF the group thinks we shall =
use this - please carefully analyse the behaviour. I am sure I have =
hidden some bugs in there and I am sure it is possible to beautify what =
I came up with (I am not the programmer).

Section 13: remove 'Note: Any original =
author=E2=80=A6=E2=80=99 

Can/should be done, if no =
objections.

This concludes my review, =
thank you for your work on this document.

Thanks a =
lot for reading thru this.

Cheers Christoph

-- 
Christoph =
Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 =
| http://www.nextlayer.at


=

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:05:20 +0200
From: Job Snijders 
To: Christoph Loibl 
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(snipping some pieces)

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 01:05:27PM +0200, Christoph Loibl wrote:
> I was looking into configurations of different manufacturers,
> documentations, … there is a mix of flow, flow-spec, flowspec in
> various documents. I suggest to use “flowspec” since this seems to
> have the widest spread already in most of the documentation found on
> the web.

ok!

> > section 4.2.3
> > OLD:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce "less or
> >       equal", "greater or equal", and inequality values.
> > NEW:  The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce common
> >      relational operators such as "less or equal", "greater or equal",
> >      and "not equal to”.
> 
> I understand that your major point here is that the bit combinations
> produce an _operator_ not a _value_, which is true.

yes

> > section 5.1:
> >    I have trouble parsing: "For IP prefix values (IP destination and source
> >    prefix) precedence is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix
> >    length;”
> 
> Same with me - I try to come up with something better but it still
> lacks a definition what the common prefix is (I will need some more
> time to think about this):
> 
> For IP prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) the common
> prefixes are compared (common prefix: the prefixes up to the minimal
> prefix-length those two share). If those are equal the prefix with the
> longer prefix-length has higher precedence. If the common prefix is
> different the one with the lowest IP value has higher precedence.
> 
> -> Maybe we can even put it this way - I need to spend more time to
> think if this is equal to the above definition, but looks _much_ more
> elegant (what do you think?):
> 
> If the prefixes are overlapping, the one with the longer prefix-length
> has higher precedence. If they are not overlapping the one with the
> lowest IP value has higher precedence.
> 
> >    If a packet destined for 10.5.0.1 is covered by a rule for
> >    destination 10.0.0.0/8 and a rule covering destination 10.5.0.0/24 -
> >    the 10.0.0.0/8 rule would 'win' because '10.0.0.0' is a lower IP
> >    value?
> 
> No. What actually should happen is:
> 
> 1) compare the “common” prefix (in this case the common prefix length = 8)
> 
> 10.0.0.0/8 == 10.5.0.0/8 -> the common prefix is equal.

Why would you ever see 10.5.0.0/8 - that looks like an incorrect CIDR
notation to me? 

> 2) if the common prefix is equal (which is the case) the prefix with
> the longest match takes precedence:
> 
> 10.0.0.0/8 <- 8 bit
> 10.5.0.0/24 <- 24 bit <- this one wins!
> 
> Another example: 9.0.0.0/8 vs 10.5.0.0/24
> 
> 1) compare the “common” prefix (in this case the common prefix length = 8)
> 
> 9.0.0.0/8 == 10.5.0.0/24 -> the common prefix is _not_ equal
> 
> 2) lower value takes precedence:
> 
> 9.0.0.0 < 10.5.0.0/24
> 
> 9.0.0.0/8 wins!

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. 9.0.0.0/8 and 10.5.0.0/24 don't
overlap, shouldn't they both be installed as ACLs? Maybe I don't
understand when this algorithm is used?

> >    Another question, and I realise this is a big ask: Is it possible to
> >    replace the pseudocode with an actual code example? Pseudo languages
> >    tend to not follow any specific set of rules and therefor oftentimes
> >    are hard to read. Awk, lua, python, ruby, perl, or really anything
> >    that actually can be compiled and inspected would be better than
> >    pseudocode. I've been part of discussions where we tried to
> >    deconstruct the pseudocode author's intentions and rules of
> >    precedence.
> 
> I also think that actual code that can be interpreted/compiled may be
> helpful in some cases. The complexity of such a code may sometimes not
> be very beneficial and some of the environment (variables, modules,
> helper-functions…)  needed to actually run the code may just not fit
> into such a draft.
> 
> However, I uploaded a python-script containing a python version of the
> flow_rule_cmp(a, b) plus unit-test with 100% code coverage:
> 
> https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp/blob/master/flow-cmp.py
> 
> IF the group thinks we shall use this - please carefully analyse the
> behaviour. I am sure I have hidden some bugs in there and I am sure it
> is possible to beautify what I came up with (I am not the programmer).

I think this is a very good direction and I hope the WG sees this as
path forward too.

In the I-D I'd leave out the unittest part for the sake of brevity. I'd
also specify what version of python this code was tested against. And
of course you can include a link to that github repository in the I-D.
For other drafts we've taken a similar approach.

Kind regards,

Job


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Hi Job,

>>=20
>> No. What actually should happen is:
>>=20
>> 1) compare the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D prefix (in this case the =
common prefix length =3D 8)
>>=20
>> 10.0.0.0/8 =3D=3D 10.5.0.0/8 -> the common prefix is equal.
>=20
> Why would you ever see 10.5.0.0/8 - that looks like an incorrect CIDR
> notation to me?

Yes - 10.5.0.0/8 - no =E2=80=9Ccorrect=E2=80=9D cidr notation. I just =
wanted to express that we look at the first 8 bits of the 10.5.0.0 - and =
compare it to the first 8 bit of 10.0.0.0 - both times this is 10 =3D> =
they match.

>> 2) if the common prefix is equal (which is the case) the prefix with
>> the longest match takes precedence:
>>=20
>> 10.0.0.0/8 <- 8 bit
>> 10.5.0.0/24 <- 24 bit <- this one wins!
>>=20
>> Another example: 9.0.0.0/8 vs 10.5.0.0/24
>>=20
>> 1) compare the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D prefix (in this case the =
common prefix length =3D 8)
>>=20
>> 9.0.0.0/8 =3D=3D 10.5.0.0/24 -> the common prefix is _not_ equal
>>=20
>> 2) lower value takes precedence:
>>=20
>> 9.0.0.0 < 10.5.0.0/24
>>=20
>> 9.0.0.0/8 wins!
>=20
> I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. 9.0.0.0/8 and 10.5.0.0/24 =
don't
> overlap, shouldn't they both be installed as ACLs? Maybe I don't
> understand when this algorithm is used?

Both are actually installed (but the order is determined). This =
algorithm is used for sorting the ACL terms. In our case 9.0.0.0/8 will =
get sorted =E2=80=9Cabove=E2=80=9D 10.5.0.0/24. (In case of overlapping =
prefix the match behaviour is changed to longest prefix-length =
=E2=80=9Cfirst").

Since the arrival-time of the BGP updates is non predictable some =
sorting is needed to have a consistent order of ACL-terms in the =
network.

When programming a =E2=80=9Csorting=E2=80=9D algorithm you usually need =
a compare function that allows to compare items. In python I think you =
need to implement __lt__ for classes that you want the built-in sort() =
to work. The code that I put on github can be easily adopted to be used =
for sorting =E2=80=9Cflowspec_nlri=E2=80=9D objects.

>=20
>>>   Another question, and I realise this is a big ask: Is it possible =
to
>>>   replace the pseudocode with an actual code example? Pseudo =
languages
>>>   tend to not follow any specific set of rules and therefor =
oftentimes
>>=20
>> IF the group thinks we shall use this - please carefully analyse the
>> behaviour. I am sure I have hidden some bugs in there and I am sure =
it
>> is possible to beautify what I came up with (I am not the =
programmer).
>=20
> I think this is a very good direction and I hope the WG sees this as
> path forward too.
>=20
> In the I-D I'd leave out the unittest part for the sake of brevity. =
I'd
> also specify what version of python this code was tested against. And
> of course you can include a link to that github repository in the I-D.
> For other drafts we've taken a similar approach.

Can you point me to some I-Ds that use a similar approach - maybe one =
can learn from that.

Cheers Christoph

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 13:15:21 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura 
To: "John G. Scudder" 
CC: "idr@ietf.org" 
Message-ID: 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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yes/support

Cheers,
Jeff

On 10/13/17, 10:55 AM, "Idr on behalf of John G. Scudder"  wrote:
    
        Paging through the discussion so far, I see exactly one person, Job Snijders, has expressed what I interpret as support for publishing the document. I presume the authors support it, and nobody has expressed opposition. However, it would be quite helpful if there were more contributions, whether to say "ship it", or "needs more work", or whatever.
        
        Thanks,
        
        --John
        
        > On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
        > 
        > Hi All,
        > 
        > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
        > 
        > A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017.
        > 
        > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. 
        > 
        > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=hLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&m=2T8sWKXOuk1R-CTDDPFM8HO_a6AbOHGOseJ81Ht9_4Q&s=yunFv1zXtd-bLp5IQGspvPZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e= 
        > 
        > Thanks,
        > 
        > --John
        
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From nobody Mon Oct 16 08:06:04 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling Maximum SID Depth using Border Gateway Protocol Link-State
        Authors         : Jeff Tantsura
                          Uma Chunduri
                          Greg Mirsky
                          Siva Sivabalan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-01.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2017-10-16

Abstract:
   This document proposes a way to signal Maximum SID Depth (MSD)
   supported by a node at node and/or link granularity by a BGP-LS
   speaker.  In a Segment Routing (SR) enabled network a centralized
   controller that programs SR tunnels needs to know the MSD supported
   by the head-end at node and/or link granularity to push the SID stack
   of an appropriate depth.  MSD is relevant to the head-end of a SR
   tunnel or Binding-SID anchor node where Binding-SID expansions might
   result in creation of a new SID stack.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" 
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From nobody Mon Oct 16 09:28:57 2017
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:28:51 -0700
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From: Randy Bush 
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Cc: "John G. Scudder" , idr wg , Kevin Wang 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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> While I am still in process of getting full clarification from Cisco
> on what has been filed without authors knowledge I think the message
> you got from Serpil is incorrect.
> 
> To the best of my current understanding cisco filed some patents with
> claims describing implementation solutions used to implement ideas
> from ORR document not to claim IPR rights to such ideas itself.
> 
> Both are very different and I do not understand while the former would
> in any way impact the IETF process.

perhaps we should let the lawyers be lawyers and we stick to
engineering?  

randy


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 18:30:46 +0200
From: Job Snijders 
To: Christoph Loibl 
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20171016163046.mxgeamcgdx6xhzoh@hanna.meerval.net>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 01:00:26PM +0000, Christoph Loibl wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. 9.0.0.0/8 and 10.5.0.0/24 don't
> > overlap, shouldn't they both be installed as ACLs? Maybe I don't
> > understand when this algorithm is used?
> 
> Both are actually installed (but the order is determined). This
> algorithm is used for sorting the ACL terms. 

Ah! I see now, thank you for your patience and clarification. For some
reason I derailed into the LPM routing mindset. OK, back to the original
issue. 

OLD: For IP prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) precedence
     is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix length; if the
     common prefix is equal, then the most specific prefix has
     precedence

PERHAPS:
    For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
    bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
    lowest prefix-length of the two prefixes. If the high-order bits are
    equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
    precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the prefix
    with the lowest numeric value takes higher precedence.

> >>>   Another question, and I realise this is a big ask: Is it
> >>>   possible to replace the pseudocode with an actual code example?
> >>>   Pseudo languages tend to not follow any specific set of rules
> >>>   and therefor oftentimes
> >> 
> >> IF the group thinks we shall use this - please carefully analyse
> >> the behaviour. I am sure I have hidden some bugs in there and I am
> >> sure it is possible to beautify what I came up with (I am not the
> >> programmer).
> > 
> > I think this is a very good direction and I hope the WG sees this as
> > path forward too.
> > 
> > In the I-D I'd leave out the unittest part for the sake of brevity.
> > I'd also specify what version of python this code was tested
> > against. And of course you can include a link to that github
> > repository in the I-D.  For other drafts we've taken a similar
> > approach.
> 
> Can you point me to some I-Ds that use a similar approach - maybe one
> can learn from that.

You can put the relevant python code inside CDATA block to preserve
formatting.

    

    
    


And in the paragraph introducing the code reference the full codebase as
following:

    The full python implementation of 'flowspec-cmp' is available at
    https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp.

Be sure to add something liberal like a BSD-2 Clause LICENSE file to the
repository.

Kind regards,

Job


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To: "John G. Scudder" , idr@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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Hello John,

I was not aware of any IPR. I will work with Serpil and we will get back.

Thanks
Christian

On 13/10/2017 21:52, John G. Scudder wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. 
> 
> 
> I was just told by Serpil Bayraktar that Cisco has IPR related to this spec. She is working with their legal department to disclose it, and of course as soon as the disclosure is available we'll notify the WG.
> 
> Naturally we will keep the WGLC open until the IPR disclosure has been published and the WG has had a chance to consider it.
> 
> I want to thank Serpil for her diligence in bringing this to my attention as soon as she became aware of it. This is as good a time as any to remind everyone of the Note Well we all see multiple times per meeting as well as when we sign up for a mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html. In particular, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8179.txt, "Intellectual Property Rights in IETF Technology", which is linked from the Note Well, which describes the who, what and when in detail. Let me quote the beginning of the Note Well here:
> 
> "Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or place..."
> 
> and so on.
> 
> While we're at it, I will note that four of the authors -- Robert Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, and Adam Chappell -- have said they didn't know of any IPR, so presumably this comes as a surprise to them. I have not seen replies to this question from Stephane Litkowski, Christian Cassar or Kevin Wang yet, I've cc'd them. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --John.
> 


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 19:07:01 +0200
From: Job Snijders 
To: Christoph Loibl 
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20171016170701.zya6xoa5tsbwohw6@hanna.meerval.net>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 04:30:46PM +0000, Job Snijders wrote:
> OLD: For IP prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) precedence
>      is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix length; if the
>      common prefix is equal, then the most specific prefix has
>      precedence
> 
> PERHAPS:
>     For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
>     bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
>     lowest prefix-length of the two prefixes. If the high-order bits are
>     equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
>     precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the prefix
>     with the lowest numeric value takes higher precedence.

Still feels wonky, maybe this:

PERHAPS:
    For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
    bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
    lowest prefix-length value of the two prefixes. If the high-order
    bits are equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
    precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the prefix
    with the set of bits that represent the lowest numeric value takes
    higher precedence.

If others chime in here that would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

Job


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To: Job Snijders 
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Hi Job,


> On 16 Oct 2017, at 19:07, Job Snijders  wrote:
>=20
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 04:30:46PM +0000, Job Snijders wrote:
>> OLD: For IP prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) =
precedence
>>     is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix length; if =
the
>>     common prefix is equal, then the most specific prefix has
>>     precedence
>>=20
>> PERHAPS:
>>    For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
>>    bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
>>    lowest prefix-length of the two prefixes. If the high-order bits =
are
>>    equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
>>    precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the =
prefix
>>    with the lowest numeric value takes higher precedence.
>=20
> Still feels wonky, maybe this:
>=20
> PERHAPS:
>    For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
>    bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
>    lowest prefix-length value of the two prefixes. If the high-order
>    bits are equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
>    precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the prefix
>    with the set of bits that represent the lowest numeric value takes
>    higher precedence.
>=20

Maybe you missed this in one of my previous emails, but this seems to be =
very easy to read and is the same behaviour:

PERHAPS:
For IP prefix values (IP destination or source prefix): If the prefixes =
are overlapping, the one with the longer prefix-length has higher =
precedence. If they are not overlapping the one with the lowest IP value =
has higher precedence.

Christoph



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Hi Job,


On 16 Oct 2017, at 19:07, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> =
wrote:

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 04:30:46PM +0000, Job Snijders =
wrote:
OLD: For IP =
prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) precedence
=
     is given to the lowest IP value of the common =
prefix length; if the
     common =
prefix is equal, then the most specific prefix has
 =
    precedence

PERHAPS:
    For IP prefix =
values (destination or source) the common high-order
 =
   bits are compared. The number of common bits to =
compare is the
    lowest prefix-length of =
the two prefixes. If the high-order bits are
 =
   equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has =
higher
    precedence. If the common =
high-order bits are different, the prefix
 =
   with the lowest numeric value takes higher =
precedence.

Still feels wonky, =
maybe this:

PERHAPS:
 =
   For IP prefix values (destination or source) the =
common high-order
    bits are compared. =
The number of common bits to compare is the
 =
   lowest prefix-length value of the two prefixes. If the =
high-order
    bits are equal, the prefix =
with the longer prefix-length has higher
 =
   precedence. If the common high-order bits are =
different, the prefix
    with the set of =
bits that represent the lowest numeric value takes
 =
   higher precedence.


Maybe =
you missed this in one of my previous emails, but this seems to be very =
easy to read and is the same behaviour:

PERHAPS:
For IP prefix values (IP destination or source =
prefix): If the prefixes are overlapping, the one with the longer =
prefix-length has higher precedence. If they are not overlapping =
the one with the lowest IP value has higher precedence.

Christoph


=

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 19:49:54 +0200
From: Job Snijders 
To: Christoph Loibl 
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20171016174954.vfd23rkfcqkdhvs7@hanna.meerval.net>
References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> <20171014153402.GY19142@Vurt.local> <55EAFCD6-4783-4DDD-B1B9-30AF18FD2342@tix.at> <20171016120520.GM19142@Vurt.local> <5B6788C8-6E39-4CF0-880A-2D35DCCEEB82@tix.at> <20171016163046.mxgeamcgdx6xhzoh@hanna.meerval.net> <20171016170701.zya6xoa5tsbwohw6@hanna.meerval.net> <2BC99F74-930C-4826-A1C0-9F1C520B9A8A@tix.at>
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On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 05:30:51PM +0000, Christoph Loibl wrote:
> > On 16 Oct 2017, at 19:07, Job Snijders  wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 04:30:46PM +0000, Job Snijders wrote:
> >> OLD: For IP prefix values (IP destination and source prefix) precedence
> >>     is given to the lowest IP value of the common prefix length; if the
> >>     common prefix is equal, then the most specific prefix has
> >>     precedence
> >> 
> >> PERHAPS:
> >>    For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
> >>    bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
> >>    lowest prefix-length of the two prefixes. If the high-order bits are
> >>    equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
> >>    precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the prefix
> >>    with the lowest numeric value takes higher precedence.
> > 
> > Still feels wonky, maybe this:
> > 
> > PERHAPS:
> >    For IP prefix values (destination or source) the common high-order
> >    bits are compared. The number of common bits to compare is the
> >    lowest prefix-length value of the two prefixes. If the high-order
> >    bits are equal, the prefix with the longer prefix-length has higher
> >    precedence. If the common high-order bits are different, the prefix
> >    with the set of bits that represent the lowest numeric value takes
> >    higher precedence.
> > 
> 
> PERHAPS: For IP prefix values (IP destination or source prefix): If
> the prefixes are overlapping, the one with the longer prefix-length
> has higher precedence. If they are not overlapping the one with the
> lowest IP value has higher precedence.

Works for me!

Kind regards,

Job


From nobody Mon Oct 16 15:57:06 2017
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robert,

i am becoming more confused.  (no snark needed :)

the document refs 2119 (which has been replaced, btw) but does not seem
to use MUST et alia.  is this document informational or standards track?

randy


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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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--f403045f23f4786488055bb8e52c
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Hello Randy,

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Randy Bush  wrote:

> robert,
>
> i am becoming more confused.  (no snark needed :)
>
> the document refs 2119 (which has been replaced, btw) but does not seem
> to use MUST et alia.  is this document informational or standards track?
>

=E2=80=8BThe way I see the docs there are MUSTs and SHOULDs ...

=E2=80=8B   =E2=80=8B
 However, the solutions
*=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BMUST NOT* prevent
   reflecting more than one optimal path to the client as path diversity
   may be desirable for load balancing or fast restoration.  In cases
   where add-path and optimal route reflection are configured together,
   the route reflector
*=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BMUST* reflect n optimal paths to a client, where n

   is the add-path count.=E2=80=8B


=E2=80=8BPoint taken that some SHOULDs are lower case - will fix.


As far as 2119 replacement happy to update too.


=E2=80=8BLast I kept standards track as base BGP RFC or RR RFC is not reall=
y
allowing policy based

best path selection on RRs. He we are clearly introducing such
possibility. So while no new

bits in BGP protocol are introduced BGP behavior can be considered
departure/extension

of current
standard. However to me personally it can be informational or even
BCP. I am happy to adjust

it per WG and chairs direction.


Thx,
Robert

--f403045f23f4786488055bb8e52c
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Hello Randy,
On Tue, Oct 1=
7, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
robert,



i am becoming more confused.=C2=A0 (no snark needed :)



the document refs 2119 (which has been replaced, btw) but does not seem

to use MUST et alia.=C2=A0 is this document informational or standards trac=
k?

=E2=80=8BThe wa=
y I see the docs there are MUSTs and SHOULDs ...=C2=A0

=E2=80=8B   =E2=80=8B
 However, the solutions 
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
MUST NOT prevent
   reflecting more than one optimal path to the client as path diversity
   may be desirable for load balancing or fast restoration.  In cases
   where add-path and optimal route reflection are configured together,
   the route reflector 
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=
=8B
MUST reflect n optimal paths to a client, where n=C2=A0
<=
pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;mar=
gin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0 =C2=A0is the add-path count.=E2=80=8B


A=
s far as 2119 replacement happy to update too. 

=E2=80=8BLast I kept s=
tandards track as base BGP RFC or RR RFC is not really allowing policy base=
d 
best path selection on RRs. He we are clearly introducing such possibi=
lity. So while no new 
bits in=
 BGP protocol are introduced BGP behavior can be considered departure/exten=
sion 
of current 
standard. Howe=
ver to me personally it can be informational or even BCP. I am happy to adj=
ust
it per WG and chairs direction.<=
/div>

T=
hx,
Robert




--f403045f23f4786488055bb8e52c--


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apologies, i was a bit quick

% grep MUST draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15.txt 
   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
   optimal route to the client.  However, the solutions MUST NOT prevent
   the route reflector MUST reflect n optimal paths to a client, where n


From nobody Tue Oct 17 14:11:20 2017
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Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:11:15 -0700
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From: Randy Bush 
To: Robert Raszuk 
Cc: Interminable Discussion Room 
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References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net>       
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14 [was: Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14]
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of course, the normative language is not in the actual protool
semantics, but rather in some operational advice in

   4.3.  Solution Interactions

is this docco info or a bcp?

randy


From nobody Tue Oct 17 17:00:15 2017
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-07.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing Prefix SID extensions for BGP
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Acee Lindem
                          Arjun Sreekantiah
                          Hannes Gredler
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-07.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2017-10-17

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) architecture allows a node to steer a packet
   flow through any topological path and service chain by leveraging
   source routing.  The ingress node prepends a SR header to a packet
   containing a set of segment identifiers (SID).  Each SID represents a
   topological or a service-based instruction.  Per-flow state is
   maintained only at the ingress node of the SR domain.

   This document defines a new optional, transitive BGP attribute for
   announcing BGP Prefix Segment Identifiers (BGP Prefix-SID)
   information.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-07
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Oct 18 07:34:06 2017
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" 
To: idr wg 
CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Call for IETF 100 IDR agenda items
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Dear all,



The IDR session on IETF 100 is scheduled on Monday, November 13th from 13:3=
0 to 15:30. Please send any IDR agenda items you might have to me and CC th=
e chairs, the deadline is October 29 by UTC time 23:59. Please include the =
name of the person who will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll nee=
d (including Q/A).



If you plan to make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, =
"no Internet Draft - no time slot". You should also plan to send your slide=
s to me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours prior to the meeting, thou=
gh earlier is better. If we don't have your slides by the deadline, you may=
 lose your slot. Please number your slides for the benefit of remote attend=
ees. By default your slides will be converted to PDF and presented from the=
 PDF. If you need to use any fancy builds or transitions, please make sure =
to arrange this with us in advance.



And potential presenters, please take a look at the checklist for presentin=
g at IDR:

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%2=
0at%20an%20IDR%20meeting



Best regards,

Jie


--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C92793895B7CNKGEML515MBXchi_
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Dear all,<=
/o:p>


 


The IDR session=
 on IETF 100 is scheduled on Monday, November 13th from 13:30 to 15:30. Ple=
ase send any IDR agenda items you might have to me and CC the chairs, the d=
eadline is October 29 by UTC time 23:59. Please include the name of the per=
son who will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll need (including Q/=
A).


 


If you plan to =
make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, "no Intern=
et Draft - no time slot". You should also plan to send your slides to =
me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours prior to the meeting, though ea=
rlier is better. If we don't have your slides by the deadline, you may lose=
 your slot. Please number your slides for the benefit of remote attendees. =
By default your slides will be converted to PDF and presented from the PDF.=
 If you need to use any fancy builds or transitions, please make sure to ar=
range this with us in advance. 


 


And potential p=
resenters, please take a look at the checklist for presenting at IDR:<=
/o:p>


https://trac.tools.ietf=
.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%20at%20an%20IDR%20meetin=
g


 


Best regards,


Jie


 






--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C92793895B7CNKGEML515MBXchi_--


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Subject: Re: [Idr] Call for IETF 100 IDR agenda items
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Also, for personal reasons I won't be able to be at IETF-100, so Sue =
will chair the meeting solo (thanks!).

Just FYI.

--John

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Dongjie (Jimmy)  =
wrote:
>=20
> Dear all,
> =20
> The IDR session on IETF 100 is scheduled on Monday, November 13th from =
13:30 to 15:30. Please send any IDR agenda items you might have to me =
and CC the chairs, the deadline is October 29 by UTC time 23:59. Please =
include the name of the person who will be presenting, and the estimate =
time you'll need (including Q/A).
> =20
> If you plan to make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR =
tradition, "no Internet Draft - no time slot". You should also plan to =
send your slides to me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours prior to =
the meeting, though earlier is better. If we don't have your slides by =
the deadline, you may lose your slot. Please number your slides for the =
benefit of remote attendees. By default your slides will be converted to =
PDF and presented from the PDF. If you need to use any fancy builds or =
transitions, please make sure to arrange this with us in advance.=20
> =20
> And potential presenters, please take a look at the checklist for =
presenting at IDR:
> =
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%=
20at%20an%20IDR%20meeting =

> =20
> Best regards,
> Jie


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Also, for personal reasons I won't be able to be at IETF-100, =
so Sue will chair the meeting solo (thanks!).

Just FYI.

--John

On =
Oct 18, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>=
 wrote:

Dear all,
 
The IDR =
session on IETF 100 is scheduled on Monday, November 13th from 13:30 to =
15:30. Please send any IDR agenda items you might have to me and CC the =
chairs, the deadline is October 29 by UTC time 23:59. Please include the =
name of the person who will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll =
need (including Q/A).
 
If you plan to make a presentation, please keep in mind =
the IDR tradition, "no Internet Draft - no time slot". You should also =
plan to send your slides to me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours =
prior to the meeting, though earlier is better. If we don't have your =
slides by the deadline, you may lose your slot. Please number your =
slides for the benefit of remote attendees. By default your slides will =
be converted to PDF and presented from the PDF. If you need to use any =
fancy builds or transitions, please make sure to arrange this with us in =
advance. 
 
And potential =
presenters, please take a look at the checklist for presenting at =
IDR:
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20=
presenting%20at%20an%20IDR%20meeting
 
Best =
regards,
Jie

=

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Subject: Re: [Idr] [OSPF] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07
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A short update on this WGLC, which is set to end in two days --

Support from Thomas Morin, Jeff Tantsura, John Drake, and Jorge Rabadan =
(and authors are assumed to support publication).

No objections, no reviews or other technical discussion. Given that this =
is a second WGLC following substantial technical review and discussion =
during the first one, I think that's OK.

If you've provided input I've missed, let me know. If you want to =
provide input and haven't yet, please do so promptly. Thanks.

--John

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:39 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> [resending with corrected draft alias in cc, sorry about that]
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07. Please reply to the list with your =
comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> We previously had a WGLC for version -04, =
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg18151.html, which =
failed to achieve consensus largely due to lack of participation. Since =
then there have been several revisions to the document and active =
discussion, so I hope we'll have better engagement this time and will be =
able to conclude this WGLC. I especially hope we can proceed forward =
since drafts in both OSPF and BESS normatively reference this draft, for =
this reason I've cc'd both the OSPF and BESS mailing lists.
>=20
> The authors have already confirmed IPR during the previous last call, =
so we won't require that again. Of course, if there have been any =
changes to IPR status since -04, please do make the necessary =
disclosures.
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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A short update on this WGLC.

Authors Robert Raszuk, Danny McPherson, Christoph Loibl, Martin Bacher, =
and Sue Hares have all responded that they know of no IPR to declare.

Support from Adam Simpson, Justin Ryburn, Gaurav Dawra, Gunter Van De =
Velde, and Job Snijders (and assumed or explicit from authors). A review =
from Job and ensuing discussion with Christoph -- seems like you guys =
reached consensus on some edits, if so it would be good to publish a =
revision. The polishing around the textual bits is fine IMO but I would =
like to know that the WG has had a chance to review the proposed =
revision to the pseudo-code as it would be published (i.e., edited into =
the draft, not just on github) before we proceed forward.=20

Thanks,

--John

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:39 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your =
comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
>=20
> =
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html=
_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Drfc5575bis-2D04&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0U=
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=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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An update on this WGLC.

Tl;dr: Before we proceed forward we need to see the promised IPR =
declaration from Cisco, we need to hear back from Stephane about IPR, =
and we need to close on the question Randy raised regarding document =
status.

1. IPR

Serpil Bayraktar let me know a few days ago that Cisco intends to =
disclose IPR. The disclosure hasn't been filed yet, we will not progress =
the document until it has been filed and the WG has an opportunity to =
consider the filing. I would like to encourage the WG to wait until the =
filing is done before discussing further -- while we wait you may want =
to pass the time reviewing the IETF's policy on what is, and is not, =
in-scope for us to consider when discussing IPR in our work.=20

Authors Robert Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, Kevin Wang, and Adam =
Chappell have said they didn't know of any IPR. Christian Cassar said "I =
was not aware of any IPR. I will work with Serpil and we will get back." =
Stephane Litkowski hasn't answered.

=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-id=
r-bgp-optimal-route-reflection

2. Other

Support from Job Snijders, Nick Hilliard, Rajiv Asati, Serpil Bayraktar, =
Manish Bhardwaj, Keyur Patel, Jeff Tantsura, Acee Lindem

Review by Job Snijders, largely about route recursion, led to a =
discussion and update to the document.=20

Note that much of the support was expressed before the IPR issue came =
up, and it's the individuals' prerogative to change their minds if they =
see fit. Support was for version -15 of the document, though, or at =
least was expressed subsequent to the discussion and publication of -15.

There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the =
document should really be Standards Track or some other status =
(Informational and BCP were both mentioned).

Thanks,

--John


> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. =
We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list =
with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
>=20
> =
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html=
_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=3DDwICAg&c=
=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DhLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&=
m=3D2T8sWKXOuk1R-CTDDPFM8HO_a6AbOHGOseJ81Ht9_4Q&s=3DyunFv1zXtd-bLp5IQGspvP=
ZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=3D=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


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References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net> 
From: Robert Raszuk 
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 18:11:15 +0200
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To: "John G. Scudder" 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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--001a1148fb0a48ca7f055bd47d4d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,

> There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the
document should really be
> Standards Track or some other status (Informational and BCP were both
mentioned).

I explained the rationale for keeping it as Standards Track document.

There is also recent outstanding question from Randy supposedly questioning
the name of section 4.3. I personally do not see anything wrong with the
current name.

Thx,
R.


On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:57 PM, John G. Scudder  wrote:

> An update on this WGLC.
>
> Tl;dr: Before we proceed forward we need to see the promised IPR
> declaration from Cisco, we need to hear back from Stephane about IPR, and
> we need to close on the question Randy raised regarding document status.
>
> 1. IPR
>
> Serpil Bayraktar let me know a few days ago that Cisco intends to disclose
> IPR. The disclosure hasn't been filed yet, we will not progress the
> document until it has been filed and the WG has an opportunity to consider
> the filing. I would like to encourage the WG to wait until the filing is
> done before discussing further -- while we wait you may want to pass the
> time reviewing the IETF's policy on what is, and is not, in-scope for us to
> consider when discussing IPR in our work.
>
> Authors Robert Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, Kevin Wang, and Adam
> Chappell have said they didn't know of any IPR. Christian Cassar said "I
> was not aware of any IPR. I will work with Serpil and we will get back."
> Stephane Litkowski hasn't answered.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=draft&id=
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection
>
> 2. Other
>
> Support from Job Snijders, Nick Hilliard, Rajiv Asati, Serpil Bayraktar,
> Manish Bhardwaj, Keyur Patel, Jeff Tantsura, Acee Lindem
>
> Review by Job Snijders, largely about route recursion, led to a discussion
> and update to the document.
>
> Note that much of the support was expressed before the IPR issue came up,
> and it's the individuals' prerogative to change their minds if they see
> fit. Support was for version -15 of the document, though, or at least was
> expressed subsequent to the discussion and publication of -15.
>
> There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the document
> should really be Standards Track or some other status (Informational and
> BCP were both mentioned).
>
> Thanks,
>
> --John
>
>
> > On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We
> will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
> >
> > A working group last call has been requested for
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list
> with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without
> participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October
> 20, 2017.
> >
> > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.
> >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.
> ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-
> 2Dreflection-2D14&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=hLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&m=2T8sWKXOuk1R-CTDDPFM8HO_
> a6AbOHGOseJ81Ht9_4Q&s=yunFv1zXtd-bLp5IQGspvPZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

--001a1148fb0a48ca7f055bd47d4d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

>=
 There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the document=
 should really be=C2=A0
> Standards Track or some othe=
r status (Informational and BCP were both mentioned).

I explained the rationale for keeping it as Standar=
ds Track document.=C2=A0

There is also rec=
ent outstanding question from Randy supposedly questioning the name of sect=
ion 4.3. I personally=C2=A0do not see anything wrong with the current name.=
=C2=A0

Thx,
R.


On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:57 PM, John G. Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
An update on this WGL=
C.



Tl;dr: Before we proceed forward we need to see the promised IPR declaratio=
n from Cisco, we need to hear back from Stephane about IPR, and we need to =
close on the question Randy raised regarding document status.



1. IPR



Serpil Bayraktar let me know a few days ago that Cisco intends to disclose =
IPR. The disclosure hasn't been filed yet, we will not progress the doc=
ument until it has been filed and the WG has an opportunity to consider the=
 filing. I would like to encourage the WG to wait until the filing is done =
before discussing further -- while we wait you may want to pass the time re=
viewing the IETF's policy on what is, and is not, in-scope for us to co=
nsider when discussing IPR in our work.



Authors Robert Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, Kevin Wang, and Adam Chap=
pell have said they didn't know of any IPR. Christian Cassar said "=
;I was not aware of any IPR. I will work with Serpil and we will get back.&=
quot; Stephane Litkowski hasn't answered.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&am=
p;id=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection



2. Other



Support from Job Snijders, Nick Hilliard, Rajiv Asati, Serpil Bayraktar, Ma=
nish Bhardwaj, Keyur Patel, Jeff Tantsura, Acee Lindem



Review by Job Snijders, largely about route recursion, led to a discussion =
and update to the document.



Note that much of the support was expressed before the IPR issue came up, a=
nd it's the individuals' prerogative to change their minds if they =
see fit. Support was for version -15 of the document, though, or at least w=
as expressed subsequent to the discussion and publication of -15.



There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the document =
should really be Standards Track or some other status (Informational and BC=
P were both mentioned).



Thanks,



--John





> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:30 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:

>

> Hi All,

>

> (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. W=
e will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)

>

> A working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-op=
timal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list with your comments=
. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the =
group. Please get your comments in before October 20, 2017.

>

> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.

>

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2=
/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2=
Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh6=
3rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DhLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT=
7A&m=3D2T8sWKXOuk1R-CTDDPFM8HO_a6AbOHGOseJ81Ht9_4Q&s=3DyunFv1zXtd-bLp5IQGspvPZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=3D


>

> Thanks,

>

> --John



_______________________________________________

Idr mailing list

Idr@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr





--001a1148fb0a48ca7f055bd47d4d--


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In-Reply-To: 
References: <1F4BD63B-3273-469E-A3C6-4365B56724EA@juniper.net>  
From: Job Snijders 
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 18:26:48 +0200
Message-ID: 
To: Robert Raszuk 
Cc: "John G. Scudder" , idr wg 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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I am fine with standards track.

Kind regards,

Job

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Robert Raszuk  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the docume=
nt
>> should really be
>> Standards Track or some other status (Informational and BCP were both
>> mentioned).
>
> I explained the rationale for keeping it as Standards Track document.
>
> There is also recent outstanding question from Randy supposedly questioni=
ng
> the name of section 4.3. I personally do not see anything wrong with the
> current name.
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:57 PM, John G. Scudder  wrote:
>>
>> An update on this WGLC.
>>
>> Tl;dr: Before we proceed forward we need to see the promised IPR
>> declaration from Cisco, we need to hear back from Stephane about IPR, an=
d we
>> need to close on the question Randy raised regarding document status.
>>
>> 1. IPR
>>
>> Serpil Bayraktar let me know a few days ago that Cisco intends to disclo=
se
>> IPR. The disclosure hasn't been filed yet, we will not progress the docu=
ment
>> until it has been filed and the WG has an opportunity to consider the
>> filing. I would like to encourage the WG to wait until the filing is don=
e
>> before discussing further -- while we wait you may want to pass the time
>> reviewing the IETF's policy on what is, and is not, in-scope for us to
>> consider when discussing IPR in our work.
>>
>> Authors Robert Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, Kevin Wang, and Adam
>> Chappell have said they didn't know of any IPR. Christian Cassar said "I=
 was
>> not aware of any IPR. I will work with Serpil and we will get back."
>> Stephane Litkowski hasn't answered.
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection
>>
>> 2. Other
>>
>> Support from Job Snijders, Nick Hilliard, Rajiv Asati, Serpil Bayraktar,
>> Manish Bhardwaj, Keyur Patel, Jeff Tantsura, Acee Lindem
>>
>> Review by Job Snijders, largely about route recursion, led to a discussi=
on
>> and update to the document.
>>
>> Note that much of the support was expressed before the IPR issue came up=
,
>> and it's the individuals' prerogative to change their minds if they see =
fit.
>> Support was for version -15 of the document, though, or at least was
>> expressed subsequent to the discussion and publication of -15.
>>
>> There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the docume=
nt
>> should really be Standards Track or some other status (Informational and=
 BCP
>> were both mentioned).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --John
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. W=
e
>> > will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
>> >
>> > A working group last call has been requested for
>> > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the li=
st
>> > with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without
>> > participation from the group. Please get your comments in before Octob=
er 20,
>> > 2017.
>> >
>> > Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.
>> >
>> >
>> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_=
html_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=3DDwICA=
g&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DhLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7=
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PZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=3D
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > --John
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>


From nobody Wed Oct 18 10:07:52 2017
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From: IETF Secretariat 
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Subject: [Idr] IPR Disclosure Cisco's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection
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Dear Robert Raszuk, Christian Cassar, Erik Aman, Bruno Decraene, Kevin Wang:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "BGP
Optimal Route Reflection (BGP-ORR)"
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection) was submitted to the IETF
Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual
Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3089/). The
title of the IPR disclosure is "Cisco's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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Cisco's IPR filing is now available at the datatracker link below.

I propose a one week extension to the WGLC period (until next Wednesday, =
October 25) to ensure WG participants have ample time to consider this =
information. If anyone is concerned that it's not enough time, feel free =
to unicast me (or Sue, or Alvaro).

If you've previously expressed support for publication, I will assume =
that you still support it unless you say otherwise.

Thanks,

--John

On Oct 18, 2017, at 6:57 PM, John G. Scudder  wrote:
...
> 1. IPR
>=20
> Serpil Bayraktar let me know a few days ago that Cisco intends to =
disclose IPR. The disclosure hasn't been filed yet, we will not progress =
the document until it has been filed and the WG has an opportunity to =
consider the filing. I would like to encourage the WG to wait until the =
filing is done before discussing further -- while we wait you may want =
to pass the time reviewing the IETF's policy on what is, and is not, =
in-scope for us to consider when discussing IPR in our work.=20
>=20
> Authors Robert Raszuk, Bruno Decraene, Eric Aman, Kevin Wang, and Adam =
Chappell have said they didn't know of any IPR. Christian Cassar said "I =
was not aware of any IPR. I will work with Serpil and we will get back." =
Stephane Litkowski hasn't answered.
>=20
>=20
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-id=
r-bgp-optimal-route-reflection


From nobody Thu Oct 19 01:48:40 2017
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From: Christoph Loibl 
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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:48:31 +0200
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To: "John G. Scudder" 
References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> 
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Hi,

I will try to upload a new revision for review by tomorrow.

BTW: the URL for the python example has changed slightly in the meantime =
you can have a look at this github project for review:

https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp =


Christoph

--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at



> On 18 Oct 2017, at 17:31, John G. Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Support from Adam Simpson, Justin Ryburn, Gaurav Dawra, Gunter Van De =
Velde, and Job Snijders (and assumed or explicit from authors). A review =
from Job and ensuing discussion with Christoph -- seems like you guys =
reached consensus on some edits, if so it would be good to publish a =
revision.


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Hi,

I =
will try to upload a new revision for review by =
tomorrow. 

BTW: the URL for the python example has changed slightly in =
the meantime you can have a look at this github project for =
review:

https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp

Christoph



-- 
Christoph =
Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 =
| http://www.nextlayer.at






On 18 Oct 2017, at 17:31, John G. Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> =
wrote:

Support from Adam =
Simpson, Justin Ryburn, Gaurav Dawra, Gunter Van De Velde, and Job =
Snijders (and assumed or explicit from authors). A review from Job and =
ensuing discussion with Christoph -- seems like you guys reached =
consensus on some edits, if so it would be good to publish a =
revision.

=

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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior to WG LC (7/17 - 7/31)
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--Apple-Mail=_C103CA82-4E9C-444E-94F4-A165FDF7B798
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Hi All,

I see that we never formally closed this WGLC.

Since there were no replies at all to the WGLC, there is no consensus to =
advance the document. Presumably there is still interest in it, =
considering we were asked for -- and provided -- early allocations, =
subsequent to the WGLC. So, I guess the WG should reconsider the WGLC in =
the future, after we've processed the other outstanding WGLCs in our =
queue.=20

--John

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Susan Hares  wrote:
>=20
> This begins a 2 week WG LC for =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext from 7/17/17 to 7/31/17.  You =
can obtain the draft at:=20
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext=
/ =

> =20
> In your discussions, please indicate if you believe this draft is =
ready for publication.  Also, it would be helpful to know if have =
experience with any of the implementations of this draft. =20
> =20
> Sue Hares and John Scuder


--Apple-Mail=_C103CA82-4E9C-444E-94F4-A165FDF7B798
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Hi All,

I =
see that we never formally closed this WGLC.

Since there were no replies at all to =
the WGLC, there is no consensus to advance the document. Presumably =
there is still interest in it, considering we were asked for -- and =
provided -- early allocations, subsequent to the WGLC. So, I guess the =
WG should reconsider the WGLC in the future, after we've processed the =
other outstanding WGLCs in our queue. 

--John

On =
Jul 17, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext from 7/17/17 to 7/31/17.  =
You can obtain the draft at: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-=
routing-ext/
 
In your discussions, please indicate if you believe this =
draft is ready for publication.  Also, it would be helpful to know =
if have experience with any of the implementations of this =
draft.  
 
Sue Hares =
and John Scuder

=

--Apple-Mail=_C103CA82-4E9C-444E-94F4-A165FDF7B798--


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From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com>
To: "'Van De Velde, Gunter \(Nokia - BE/Antwerp\)'" ,  , , , , , 
Cc: "'Victor Kuarsingh'" 
References: 
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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:00:31 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [bess] DC ROUTING BOF at IETF100 - call for meeting topics
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> If you have a draft and would like to see it discussed during the BOF =
meeting,
> then please send the note to the BOF co-chairs and copy the
> dcrouting@ietf.org   email address.

Please include a slot for openfabric.

=F0=9F=98=8A

Russ


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Subject: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
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Hi All,

An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03. Please reply to the list with your comments. =
As usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the =
group. Please get your comments in before November 3, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03

Thanks,

--John


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Subject: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07
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Hi All,

An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07. Please reply to the list with =
your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07

Thanks,

--John


From nobody Thu Oct 19 08:08:05 2017
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In-Reply-To: 
References: 
From: Donald Eastlake 
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 11:07:45 -0400
Message-ID: 
To: John Scudder 
Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org,  "trill@ietf.org" 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
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--089e0824839ce0ba3a055be7b80d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I support this draft as an author.

I am not aware of any IPR in this draft that needs to be declared.

Thanks,
Donald
===============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM, John Scudder  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> An IDR working group last call has been requested for
> draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03. Please reply to the list with your comments. As
> usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the
> group. Please get your comments in before November 3, 2017.
>
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
>
> Thanks,
>
> --John
>

--089e0824839ce0ba3a055be7b80d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I support this draft as an author.

I am=
 not aware of any IPR in this draft that needs to be declared.
Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd =C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2=A0155 Be=
aver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.com


On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM, John Scudd=
er <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
=
Hi All,



An IDR working group last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-ls-tri=
ll-03. Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot=
 advance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your co=
mments in before November 3, 2017.



Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.



https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-id=
r-ls-trill-03



Thanks,



--John





--089e0824839ce0ba3a055be7b80d--


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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07
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On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:01 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
> An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07. Please reply to the list with =
your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.


I'll start!

I noticed that it references =
draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. The reference is listed as =
Informative, but I think that can't be right -- the draft can't be fully =
understood/implemented without referring to te-policy, e.g.:

   o  Distinguisher, Policy Color and Endpoint are defined in
      [I-D.previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy].

That makes the reference Normative. Obviously, the reference also needs =
to be updated to ref draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy.

Thanks,

--John=

--Apple-Mail=_B2AB5E27-CD94-41BD-A9E9-A2A11DFE848C
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On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:01 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> =
wrote:
An IDR working group last call =
has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07. Please =
reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance =
the draft without participation from the group. Please get your comments =
in before November 3, 2017.

I'll start!

I noticed that it references =
draft-previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. The reference is listed as =
Informative, but I think that can't be right -- the draft can't be fully =
understood/implemented without referring to te-policy, e.g.:

  =
 o  Distinguisher, Policy Color and Endpoint are defined =
in
      =
[I-D.previdi-idr-segment-routing-te-policy].

That makes the reference =
Normative. Obviously, the reference also needs to be updated to =
ref draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy.

Thanks,

--John
=

--Apple-Mail=_B2AB5E27-CD94-41BD-A9E9-A2A11DFE848C--


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Subject: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-00
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Hi All,

An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-00. Please reply to the list =
with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. (There =
is one disclosure already, see =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-id=
r-segment-routing-te-policy)

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-00

Thanks,

--John


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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" 
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From: Jeff Tantsura 
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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 09:17:28 -0700
Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution@ietf.org
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To: John Scudder 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07
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Hi John,

Support as co-author.
Not aware of any IPR that has not been disclosed.=20

Cheers,
Jeff


> On Oct 19, 2017, at 08:01, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07. Please reply to the list with =
your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07
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Hi All,

Stefano tells me that the doc will have an update in the near future =
which might require a second review, so with my apologies for the noise, =
let's put this WGLC on hold until that update is published.=20

Thanks for letting me know, Stefano, I should have reconfirmed with the =
authors before proceeding. (The previous WGLC request was probably some =
time ago.)

--John

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:01 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07. Please reply to the list with =
your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
...=


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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" 
To: "John G. Scudder" , "idr@ietf. org" 
CC: Susan Hares 
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior to WG LC (7/17 - 7/31)
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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 19:11:32 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior to WG LC (7/17 - 7/31)
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Hi John/Sue,

Apologies for missing the WGLC on this document. There is definitely intere=
st and multiple implementations. In course of concurrent discussions relate=
d to the IANA early allocations, the WGLC perhaps got missed by multiple fo=
lks.


In the meantime, I've update implementation record at the wiki below - http=
s://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-i=
mplementations

Would request others to also review/update and I hope we can redo the WGLC =
sometime soon.

Thanks,
Ketan

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John G. Scudder
Sent: 19 October 2017 18:29
To: idr@ietf. org 
Cc: Susan Hares 
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior to WG LC=
 (7/17 - 7/31)

Hi All,

I see that we never formally closed this WGLC.

Since there were no replies at all to the WGLC, there is no consensus to ad=
vance the document. Presumably there is still interest in it, considering w=
e were asked for -- and provided -- early allocations, subsequent to the WG=
LC. So, I guess the WG should reconsider the WGLC in the future, after we'v=
e processed the other outstanding WGLCs in our queue.

--John

On Jul 17, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Susan Hares > wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext fr=
om 7/17/17 to 7/31/17.  You can obtain the draft at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/

In your discussions, please indicate if you believe this draft is ready for=
 publication.  Also, it would be helpful to know if have experience with an=
y of the implementations of this draft.

Sue Hares and John Scuder


--_000_2819c675344d464bbcb356541c19732cXCHALN008ciscocom_
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Hi John/Su=
e,


 =
;


Apologies =
for missing the WGLC on this document. There is definitely interest and mul=
tiple implementations. In course of concurrent
 discussions related to the IANA early allocations, the WGLC perhaps got mi=
ssed by multiple folks.


 =
;


In the meantime, I&=
#8217;ve update implementation record at the wiki below -
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-implementations



 =
;


Would requ=
est others to also review/update and I hope we can redo the WGLC sometime s=
oon.


 =
;


Thanks,


Ketan=



 =
;






From: =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of John G. Scudder

Sent: 19 October 2017 18:29

To: idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>

Cc: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>

Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext prior t=
o WG LC (7/17 - 7/31)






 


Hi All,




 






I see that we never formally closed this WGLC.<=
/o:p>






 






Since there were no replies at all to the WGLC, ther=
e is no consensus to advance the document. Presumably there is still intere=
st in it, considering we were asked for -- and provided -- early allocation=
s, subsequent to the WGLC. So, I guess
 the WG should reconsider the WGLC in the future, after we've processed the=
 other outstanding WGLCs in our queue. 






 






--John









--_000_2819c675344d464bbcb356541c19732cXCHALN008ciscocom_--


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CC: "idr@ietf. org" , "draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" 
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From: Sujay Gupta 
References: 
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:59:29 +0530
Message-ID: 
To: Haoweiguo , Donald Eastlake ,  John Scudder 
Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org, trill@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cd1002c15ed055bf13e70"
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
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--94eb2c1cd1002c15ed055bf13e70
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support this draft and have no known IPR related to it.



Regards

-Sujay



*From:* Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com]
*Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2017 6:36 AM
*To:* Donald Eastlake ; John Scudder 
*Cc:* idr@ietf. org ; draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org;
trill@ietf.org
*Subject:* Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03



I also support this draft as an co-author.



I am not aware of any IPR in this draft that needs to be declared.



Thanks,
Weiguo



*=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Donald Eastlake [mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com <=
d3e3e3@gmail.com>]
*=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 19 uMfumfu 2017 11:08 PM
*=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* John Scudder 
*=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* idr@ietf. org ; draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill=
@ietf.org;
trill@ietf.org
*=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03



I support this draft as an author.



I am not aware of any IPR in this draft that needs to be declared.



Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com



On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM, John Scudder  wrote:

Hi All,

An IDR working group last call has been requested for
draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03. Please reply to the list with your comments. As
usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the
group. Please get your comments in before November 3, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03

Thanks,

--John

--=20
.

--94eb2c1cd1002c15ed055bf13e70
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


I support this draft and hav=
e no known IPR related to it.
=C2=A0
Regards
-S=
ujay
=C2=A0
From: Haoweiguo [mailto:haoweiguo@huawei.com] 
Sent: Friday, O=
ctober 20, 2017 6:36 AM
To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
Cc: idr@ietf. org &=
lt;idr@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
Subject: Re: WG=
LC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
=C2=A0
I also support this draft as an co-author.
=C2=A0
I am not aware of=
 any IPR in this draft that needs to be declared.
=C2=A0
Thanks,
Weiguo
=C2=A0
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:<=
/span> Donald Eastlake [ma=
ilto:d3e3e3@gmail.com] 
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=
=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 19 uMfumfu 2017 11:08 PM
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:=
 Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
=C2=A0
I support this d=
raft as an author.
=C2=A0
I am not aware of any IPR in th=
is draft that needs to be declared.
=C2=A0
Thanks,
Donald
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd =
=C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
=C2=A0155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757=
 USA
=C2=A0d3e3e3@=
gmail.com
=C2=A0
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM, J=
ohn Scudder <jgs@ju=
niper.net> wrote:
Hi All,

An IDR working group=
 last call has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03. Please reply =
to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft w=
ithout participation from the group. Please get your comments in before Nov=
ember 3, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has bee=
n disclosed.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls=
-trill-03

Thanks,

--John
=C2=A0




.
--94eb2c1cd1002c15ed055bf13e70--


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To: Robert Raszuk 
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>> There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the
>> document should really be Standards Track or some other status
>> (Informational and BCP were both mentioned).
> 
> I explained the rationale for keeping it as Standards Track document.
> 
> There is also recent outstanding question from Randy supposedly questioning
> the name of section 4.3. I personally do not see anything wrong with the
> current name.

you did not understand my point.  i was fine with the title of that
section.  i was pointing out that it was an operational guidance
section, not a protocol section.  and it had the only occurrences of
normative language.  hence my suggestion that this was an informative
bcp.

randy


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
        Authors         : Susan Hares
                          Christoph Loibl
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Danny McPherson
                          Martin Bacher
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt
	Pages           : 33
	Date            : 2017-10-19

Abstract:
   This document updates [RFC5575] which defines a Border Gateway
   Protocol Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding
   format that can be used to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.
   This allows the routing system to propagate information regarding
   more specific components of the traffic aggregate defined by an IP
   destination prefix.

   It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
   carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
   value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
   matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
   are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
   addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.

   This document updates [RFC5575] to correct unclear specifications in
   the flow filters and to provide rules for actions which interfere
   (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering).

   Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) application
   which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
   as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
   service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
   the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
   centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
   deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
   ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict actions
   encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Oct 20 00:26:48 2017
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From: Christoph Loibl 
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Hi,

I just uploaded a new version of the Flow Specification draft =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.

I want to point out that it contains several minor edits after Job=E2=80=99=
s review during WG-LC (see the recent mails on the mailinglist), but =
also one more *complex* change that I would ask to review:

5.1.  Ordering of Traffic Filtering Rules (changes to the paragraph and =
the pseudocode)

The pseudocode of the sorting algorithm has been replaced by an actual =
runnable and tested python3 implementation. While you should also read =
it in the draft, you may want to view it on github (since you get all =
the syntax highlighting there https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp - =
or you can even download the repository, add test-cases to the unit-test =
that is included).

Even though the python source is slightly longer than the pseudocode, I =
think it is a good idea to actually have a runnable code sample as a =
reference for actual behaviour. During the on-list discussion there were =
no objections.


Other smaller changes:

4.2.3.  Type 3 - IP Protocol

*) Small change to the wording in the Bit-Operator

The bits do not produce a =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Crelationa=
l operator=E2=80=9D:

OLD:

The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce "less or equal
"greater or equal", and inequality values.

NEW:

The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce common relational
operators such as "less or equal", "greater or equal", and "not equal
to".

13. Original authors

Removed the editorial note 'Note: Any original author...'

ENTIRE Document:

*) Consistent use of the name "Flow Specification=E2=80=9D

*) Correction of some missing cross-references and typos (mainly in the =
Abstract, Introduction)

Thank you, Job for your review and the feedback!

Cheers
Christoph


--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at



> On 20 Oct 2017, at 08:41, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
>        Authors         : Susan Hares
>                          Christoph Loibl
>                          Robert Raszuk
>                          Danny McPherson
>                          Martin Bacher
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt
> 	Pages           : 33
> 	Date            : 2017-10-19
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document updates [RFC5575] which defines a Border Gateway
>   Protocol Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding
>   format that can be used to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.
>   This allows the routing system to propagate information regarding
>   more specific components of the traffic aggregate defined by an IP
>   destination prefix.
>=20
>   It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
>   carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
>   value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
>   matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
>   are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
>   addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.
>=20
>   This document updates [RFC5575] to correct unclear specifications in
>   the flow filters and to provide rules for actions which interfere
>   (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering).
>=20
>   Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) =
application
>   which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
>   as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
>   service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
>   the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
>   centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
>   deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
>   ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict =
actions
>   encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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--94eb2c1931fa3ed2cf055bf570e9
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Randy,

This is first time I hear that use of not use of MUSTs and SHOULDs
classifies an I-D as standards track, informational or bcp. To me spec
content means a bit more then use or not use of those words.

But as I said personally I completely do not care how it is
progressed/shipped.

It is shipping in major routing implementations today and is being used in
few networks and evaluated for use in few others and this is what really
matters the most to me.

Cheers,
R.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:37 AM, Randy Bush  wrote:

> >> There is an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the
> >> document should really be Standards Track or some other status
> >> (Informational and BCP were both mentioned).
> >
> > I explained the rationale for keeping it as Standards Track document.
> >
> > There is also recent outstanding question from Randy supposedly
> questioning
> > the name of section 4.3. I personally do not see anything wrong with the
> > current name.
>
> you did not understand my point.  i was fine with the title of that
> section.  i was pointing out that it was an operational guidance
> section, not a protocol section.  and it had the only occurrences of
> normative language.  hence my suggestion that this was an informative
> bcp.
>
> randy
>

--94eb2c1931fa3ed2cf055bf570e9
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Randy,

This is first time I hear that use of not use of MUSTs=
 and SHOULDs classifies an I-D as standards track, informational or bcp. To=
 me spec content means a bit more then use or not use of those words.=C2=A0=


But as I said persona=
lly I completely do not care how it is progressed/shipped.=C2=A0

It is shipping in major routing =
implementations today and is being used in few networks and evaluated for u=
se in few others and this is what really matters the most to me.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:37 AM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> w=
rote:
>> There is =
an unresolved question from Randy Bush as to whether the

>> document should really be Standards Track or some other status

>> (Informational and BCP were both mentioned).

>

> I explained the rationale for keeping it as Standards Track document.<=
br>
>

> There is also recent outstanding question from Randy supposedly questi=
oning

> the name of section 4.3. I personally do not see anything wrong with t=
he

> current name.



you did not understand my point.=C2=A0 i was fine with the title of =
that

section.=C2=A0 i was pointing out that it was an operational guidance

section, not a protocol section.=C2=A0 and it had the only occurrences of
normative language.=C2=A0 hence my suggestion that this was an informative<=
br>
bcp.



randy





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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt
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Thanks for the update and the summary, Christoph. We will extend the =
WGLC until Wednesday to allow the WG a chance to review. I intend to =
review -05 myself and hope at least a few others will do the same and =
will send a note to the list saying they have done so. (If you've =
already reviewed the doc in detail, there's always rfcdiff.)

--John

> On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Christoph Loibl  wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I just uploaded a new version of the Flow Specification draft =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.
>=20
> I want to point out that it contains several minor edits after Job=E2=80=
=99s review during WG-LC (see the recent mails on the mailinglist), but =
also one more *complex* change that I would ask to review:
>=20
> 5.1.  Ordering of Traffic Filtering Rules (changes to the paragraph =
and the pseudocode)
>=20
> The pseudocode of the sorting algorithm has been replaced by an actual =
runnable and tested python3 implementation. While you should also read =
it in the draft, you may want to view it on github (since you get all =
the syntax highlighting there https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp =
 - or you can even download =
the repository, add test-cases to the unit-test that is included).
>=20
> Even though the python source is slightly longer than the pseudocode, =
I think it is a good idea to actually have a runnable code sample as a =
reference for actual behaviour. During the on-list discussion there were =
no objections.
>=20
>=20
> Other smaller changes:
>=20
> 4.2.3.  Type 3 - IP Protocol
>=20
> *) Small change to the wording in the Bit-Operator
>=20
> The bits do not produce a =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Crelatio=
nal operator=E2=80=9D:
>=20
> OLD:
>=20
> The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce "less or equal
> "greater or equal", and inequality values.
>=20
> NEW:
>=20
> The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to produce common relational
> operators such as "less or equal", "greater or equal", and "not equal
> to".
>=20
> 13. Original authors
>=20
> Removed the editorial note 'Note: Any original author...'
>=20
> ENTIRE Document:
>=20
> *) Consistent use of the name "Flow Specification=E2=80=9D
>=20
> *) Correction of some missing cross-references and typos (mainly in =
the Abstract, Introduction)
>=20
> Thank you, Job for your review and the feedback!
>=20
> Cheers
> Christoph
>=20
>=20
> --
> Christoph Loibl
> c@tix.at  | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | =
http://www.nextlayer.at 
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 20 Oct 2017, at 08:41, internet-drafts@ietf.org =
 wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>>=20
>>       Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
>>       Authors         : Susan Hares
>>                         Christoph Loibl
>>                         Robert Raszuk
>>                         Danny McPherson
>>                         Martin Bacher
>> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt
>> 	Pages           : 33
>> 	Date            : 2017-10-19
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>  This document updates [RFC5575] which defines a Border Gateway
>>  Protocol Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding
>>  format that can be used to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.
>>  This allows the routing system to propagate information regarding
>>  more specific components of the traffic aggregate defined by an IP
>>  destination prefix.
>>=20
>>  It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
>>  carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
>>  value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
>>  matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
>>  are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
>>  addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.
>>=20
>>  This document updates [RFC5575] to correct unclear specifications in
>>  the flow filters and to provide rules for actions which interfere
>>  (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering).
>>=20
>>  Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) =
application
>>  which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
>>  as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
>>  service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
>>  the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
>>  centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
>>  deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
>>  ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict =
actions
>>  encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.
>>=20
>>=20
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ =

>>=20
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05 =

>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05 =

>>=20
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05 =

>>=20
>>=20
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org =
.
>>=20
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ =

>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Idr mailing list
>> Idr@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr =

>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr =


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Thanks for the update and the summary, Christoph. We will =
extend the WGLC until Wednesday to allow the WG a chance to review. I =
intend to review -05 myself and hope at least a few others will do the =
same and will send a note to the list saying they have done so. (If =
you've already reviewed the doc in detail, there's always rfcdiff.)

--John

On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at> wrote:

Hi,
I just uploaded a new version of the Flow =
Specification draft draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.
I want to point out that it contains several =
minor edits after Job=E2=80=99s review during WG-LC (see the recent =
mails on the mailinglist), but also one more *complex* change that I =
would ask to review:

5.1.  Ordering of Traffic Filtering Rules =
(changes to the paragraph and the pseudocode)
The pseudocode of the sorting algorithm has been =
replaced by an actual runnable and tested python3 implementation. While =
you should also read it in the draft, you may want to view it on github =
(since you get all the syntax highlighting there https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp - or you can even download =
the repository, add test-cases to the unit-test that is =
included).

Even though the python source is =
slightly longer than the pseudocode, I think it is a good idea to =
actually have a runnable code sample as a reference for actual =
behaviour. During the on-list discussion there were no =
objections.


Other smaller changes:
4.2.3.  Type 3 - IP Protocol
*) Small change to the wording in the =
Bit-Operator

The bits do not produce a =
=E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D but a =E2=80=9Crelational operator=E2=80=9D:

OLD:

The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to =
produce "less or equal
"greater or equal", and =
inequality values.

NEW:
The bits lt, gt, and eq can be combined to =
produce common relational
operators such as "less or =
equal", "greater or equal", and "not equal
to".
13. Original authors
Removed the editorial note 'Note: Any original =
author...'

ENTIRE Document:
*) Consistent use of the name "Flow =
Specification=E2=80=9D

*) Correction of some missing cross-references =
and typos (mainly in the Abstract, Introduction)
Thank you, Job for your review and the =
feedback!

Cheers
Christoph

--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: =
0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at
On 20 Oct 2017, at =
08:41, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the =
on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work =
item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

      Title =
          : =
Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
      Authors =
        : Susan Hares
          &nb=
sp;            =
; Christoph Loibl
          &nb=
sp;            =
; Robert Raszuk
          &nb=
sp;            =
; Danny McPherson
          &nb=
sp;            =
; Martin Bacher
	Filename =
       : =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05.txt
	Pages =
          : 33
	=
Date =
           : =
2017-10-19

Abstract:
 This=
 document updates [RFC5575] which defines a Border Gateway
 Protocol Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP =
NLRI) encoding
 format that can be used to distribute =
traffic Flow Specifications.
 This allows the routing =
system to propagate information regarding
 more =
specific components of the traffic aggregate defined by an IP
 destination prefix.

 It=
 specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
 carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an =
Extended community
 value which encodes actions a =
routing system can take if the packet
 matches the =
traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
 are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts =
specify IPv6, MPLS
 addresses, L2VPN addresses, and =
NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.

 This document updates [RFC5575] to correct unclear =
specifications in
 the flow filters and to provide =
rules for actions which interfere
 (e.g. redirection =
of traffic and flow filtering).

 Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: =
1) application
 which automate inter-domain =
coordination of traffic filtering, such
 as what is =
required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
 service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic =
filtering in
 the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, =
and 3) applications with
 centralized control of =
traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
 deployments of these three applications can be handled =
by the strict
 ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow =
filters, and the strict actions
 encoded in the =
extended community Flow Specification actions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this =
draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/=


There are also htmlized versions available =
at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-05https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis=
-05

A diff from the previous version is =
available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-0=
5


Please note that it =
may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by =
anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

=

--Apple-Mail=_5024E2B5-ECAC-4C25-9184-CB023CE7FA2F--


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From: stefano previdi 
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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 16:35:49 +0200
Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy@ietf.org
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To: "John G. Scudder" 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07 and draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy
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Hi John,

sorry for the confusion and thanks for the prompt action. I=E2=80=99m =
afraid we have the same issue with =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. The authors will soon submit a =
new version so WG last call is probably to be deferred.

Thanks.
s.


> On Oct 19, 2017, at 9:05 PM, John G. Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> Stefano tells me that the doc will have an update in the near future =
which might require a second review, so with my apologies for the noise, =
let's put this WGLC on hold until that update is published.=20
>=20
> Thanks for letting me know, Stefano, I should have reconfirmed with =
the authors before proceeding. (The previous WGLC request was probably =
some time ago.)
>=20
> --John
>=20
>> On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:01 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi All,
>>=20
>> An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07. Please reply to the list with =
your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.
>>=20
>> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
> ...


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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Just for completeness, following up to this thread too --

This WGLC is extended til next Wednesday, October 25, to allow the WG =
time to review the updates in -05.

--John

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:39 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04. Please reply to the list with your =
comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
...=


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Subject: Re: [Idr] [OSPF] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-07
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This WGLC is concluded. Based on feedback received during this and the =
previous WGLC, we will forward the document for publication as RFC.

If anyone is willing to volunteer as shepherd, please let me know. (It's =
a useful way to gain insight into how the sausage is made, worth your =
while if you're so inclined.)

Thanks,

--John=


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If you have an implementation, PLEASE report it, ideally by filling in =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps%20impleme=
ntations but you can also email the list or the chairs.

Right now we have "Partial IOS XR" and "Partial FRR" (see the URL =
above).

Thanks.

--John

> On Oct 20, 2017, at 9:55 PM, John G. Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> This WGLC is concluded. Based on feedback received during this and the =
previous WGLC, we will forward the document for publication as RFC.
>=20
> If anyone is willing to volunteer as shepherd, please let me know. =
(It's a useful way to gain insight into how the sausage is made, worth =
your while if you're so inclined.)
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


From nobody Fri Oct 20 17:24:22 2017
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Subject: [Idr] idr - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 100
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Dear Susan Hares,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

idr Session 1 (2:30:00)
    Monday, Afternoon Session I 1330-1530
    Room Name: Canning size: 250
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Inter-Domain Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Susan Hares

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 80
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: i2rs i2nsf trill teas netmod netconf rtgwg
 Second Priority: grow bess sidrops spring mpls



People who must be present:
  Susan Hares
  John Scudder
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-00
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	charset=utf-8

Per Stefano's email, we will also defer this WGLC until the authors are =
ready. Sorry for the noise.

> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: stefano previdi 
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07 and =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy
> Date: October 20, 2017 at 5:35:49 PM GMT+3
> To: "John G. Scudder" 
> Cc: "idr@ietf. org" , =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution@ietf.org, =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy@ietf.org
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> sorry for the confusion and thanks for the prompt action. I=E2=80=99m =
afraid we have the same issue with =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. The authors will soon submit a =
new version so WG last call is probably to be deferred.
>=20
> Thanks.
> s.

--John

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:16 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> An IDR working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-00. Please reply to the list =
with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.
...=

--Apple-Mail=_990F6F61-E7F9-4425-9A73-825BFFC0BB30
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

Per Stefano's email, we will also defer this WGLC until the =
authors are ready. Sorry for the noise.

Begin forwarded message:

From: stefano previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-07 and =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy
Date: October 20, 2017 at 5:35:49 PM GMT+3
To: "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>
Cc: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy@ietf.org

Hi John,

sorry for the confusion and thanks for the =
prompt action. I=E2=80=99m afraid we have the same issue with =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy. The authors will soon submit a =
new version so WG last call is probably to be deferred.

Thanks.
s.

--John

On =
Oct 19, 2017, at 6:16 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> =
wrote:

Hi All,

An IDR working group =
last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-00. Please reply to the list =
with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before =
November 3, 2017.
...
=

--Apple-Mail=_990F6F61-E7F9-4425-9A73-825BFFC0BB30--


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03
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I do not know of any IPR on draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03.txt.   As Co-author,
I believe this draft is complete and ready for publication.  As co-chair of
TRILL, I note that TRILL has requested that IDR complete this work.  TRILL
is winding down its work having completed most of its milestones. 

Sue Hares 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Scudder [mailto:jgs@juniper.net] 
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 10:34 AM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03

Hi All,

An IDR working group last call has been requested for
draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03. Please reply to the list with your comments. As
usual note we cannot advance the draft without participation from the group.
Please get your comments in before November 3, 2017.

Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-03

Thanks,

--John


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Revised Validation Procedure for BGP Flow Specifications
        Authors         : James Uttaro
                          Juan Alcaide
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          David Smith
                          Pradosh Mohapatra
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2017-10-23

Abstract:
   This document describes a modification to the validation procedure
   defined in RFC 5575 for the dissemination of BGP flow specifications.
   RFC 5575 requires that the originator of the flow specification
   matches the originator of the best-match unicast route for the
   destination prefix embedded in the flow specification.  This allows
   only BGP speakers within the data forwarding path (such as autonomous
   system border routers) to originate BGP flow specifications.  Though
   it is possible to disseminate such flow specifications directly from
   border routers, it may be operationally cumbersome in an autonomous
   system with a large number of border routers having complex BGP
   policies.  The modification proposed herein enables flow
   specifications to be originated from a centralized BGP route
   controller.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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Hi Christoph,

I don't think the -05 version specifies the version of python?

On Oct 16, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Job Snijders  wrote:
> In the I-D I'd leave out the unittest part for the sake of brevity. =
I'd
> also specify what version of python this code was tested against.

Seems like a good idea to do that. I see you specified "python3" but I =
was imagining something along the lines of "this code was tested with =
Python 3.2.3" or whatever.

Thanks,

--John=

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Hi Christoph,

I don't think the -05 version specifies the version of =
python?

On Oct =
16, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
In the I-D I'd leave out the unittest =
part for the sake of brevity. I'd
also specify what version of =
python this code was tested against.

Seems like a good idea to do that. I =
see you specified "python3" but I was imagining something along the =
lines of "this code was tested with Python 3.2.3" or whatever.

Thanks,

--John
=

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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:57:04 +0200
From: Job Snijders 
To: John Scudder , paul@jakma.org
Cc: "idr@ietf.org List" 
Message-ID: <20171024125704.5ogdqrmoajnlahs2@hanna.meerval.net>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-03
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Dear all,

Reviving an old thread.

I noticed support from Robert Raszuk, Jeff Tantsura, Bruno Decraene,
andd Rob Shakir to deprecate the RFC 4271 default MRAI values. Jeff Haas
commented that he read the draft.

Perhaps it is time to conclude this WGLC? Or was the work abandoned for
some reason not immediately apparent from the mailing list archive?

The draft expired, but the latest version is here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-04

Kind regards,

Job


On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 08:44:57AM +0000, John Scudder wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> We have been remiss in not WGLC'ing this draft earlier, it has been stable for some time and is exceptionally short (about a half-page plus boilerplate):
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-03.txt
> 
> Please send any comments on the draft to the list by April 12, 2011.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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From: Christoph Loibl 
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To: "John G. Scudder" 
References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> <20171014153402.GY19142@Vurt.local> <55EAFCD6-4783-4DDD-B1B9-30AF18FD2342@tix.at> <20171016120520.GM19142@Vurt.local> 
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Hi John,

Thanks for pointing that out. Giving the complete Python version can be =
useful.

I suggest to replace:

The code below shows a python3 implementation of the comparison
   algorithm described above.  The full python3 implementation including
   unittests can be optained at https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
   [1].

with something like this:

The code below shows a Python3 implementation of the comparison
   algorithm. The full code was tested with Python 3.6.3 and can be
   optained at https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
   [1].


a) adding the full Python version (not only 3) I was running the tests =
on
b) not mentioning the unittests as Job suggested (I somehow missed that)

I suggest I wait for some more feedback (if any) on the current -5 =
document and upload a -6 by the end of the week.

Christoph

--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at



> On 24 Oct 2017, at 14:47, John G. Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi Christoph,
>=20
> I don't think the -05 version specifies the version of python?
>=20
> On Oct 16, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Job Snijders  wrote:
>> In the I-D I'd leave out the unittest part for the sake of brevity. =
I'd
>> also specify what version of python this code was tested against.
>=20
> Seems like a good idea to do that. I see you specified "python3" but I =
was imagining something along the lines of "this code was tested with =
Python 3.2.3" or whatever.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-04
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On Oct 24, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Christoph Loibl  wrote:
>=20
> Hi John,
>=20
> Thanks for pointing that out. Giving the complete Python version can =
be useful.
>=20
> I suggest to replace:
>=20
> The code below shows a python3 implementation of the comparison
>   algorithm described above.  The full python3 implementation =
including
>   unittests can be optained at =
https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
>   [1].
>=20
> with something like this:
>=20
> The code below shows a Python3 implementation of the comparison
>   algorithm. The full code was tested with Python 3.6.3 and can be
>   optained at https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
>   [1].

Works for me.

> a) adding the full Python version (not only 3) I was running the tests =
on
> b) not mentioning the unittests as Job suggested (I somehow missed =
that)
>=20
> I suggest I wait for some more feedback (if any) on the current -5 =
document and upload a -6 by the end of the week.

I'm OK with that but for that matter, I don't see any special reason to =
wait, you can go ahead and upload -6 whenever you have it. It is easy to =
do a -7 if needed, after all.

Thanks,

--John


From nobody Wed Oct 25 03:08:00 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
        Authors         : Susan Hares
                          Christoph Loibl
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Danny McPherson
                          Martin Bacher
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-06.txt
	Pages           : 33
	Date            : 2017-10-25

Abstract:
   This document updates [RFC5575] which defines a Border Gateway
   Protocol Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding
   format that can be used to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.
   This allows the routing system to propagate information regarding
   more specific components of the traffic aggregate defined by an IP
   destination prefix.

   It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
   carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
   value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
   matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
   are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
   addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.

   This document updates [RFC5575] to correct unclear specifications in
   the flow filters and to provide rules for actions which interfere
   (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering).

   Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) application
   which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
   as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
   service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
   the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
   centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
   deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
   ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict actions
   encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Oct 25 03:11:39 2017
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From: Christoph Loibl 
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To: John Scudder 
References: <00A83D9A-C00E-4A91-8007-421067DCE879@juniper.net> <20171014153402.GY19142@Vurt.local> <55EAFCD6-4783-4DDD-B1B9-30AF18FD2342@tix.at> <20171016120520.GM19142@Vurt.local>   
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Hi,

I just uploaded the -6 version as requested. The change is exactly what =
I suggested below (adding exact python version + removing statement =
about unit-tests).

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ =


Cheers

Christoph

--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at



> On 25 Oct 2017, at 10:05, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> On Oct 24, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Christoph Loibl > wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi John,
>>=20
>> Thanks for pointing that out. Giving the complete Python version can =
be useful.
>>=20
>> I suggest to replace:
>>=20
>> The code below shows a python3 implementation of the comparison
>>  algorithm described above.  The full python3 implementation =
including
>>  unittests can be optained at =
https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
>>  [1].
>>=20
>> with something like this:
>>=20
>> The code below shows a Python3 implementation of the comparison
>>  algorithm. The full code was tested with Python 3.6.3 and can be
>>  optained at https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
>>  [1].
>=20
> Works for me.
>=20
>> a) adding the full Python version (not only 3) I was running the =
tests on
>> b) not mentioning the unittests as Job suggested (I somehow missed =
that)
>>=20
>> I suggest I wait for some more feedback (if any) on the current -5 =
document and upload a -6 by the end of the week.
>=20
> I'm OK with that but for that matter, I don't see any special reason =
to wait, you can go ahead and upload -6 whenever you have it. It is easy =
to do a -7 if needed, after all.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John


--Apple-Mail=_E8EFD498-8702-4D42-8E4E-18E8F4C8CCAF
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Hi,

I =
just uploaded the -6 version as requested. The change is exactly what I =
suggested below (adding exact python version + removing statement about =
unit-tests).

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/=


Cheers 

Christoph



-- 
Christoph =
Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 =
| http://www.nextlayer.at






On 25 Oct 2017, at 10:05, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> =
wrote:

On Oct 24, 2017, at =
4:23 PM, Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at> wrote:

Hi John,

Thanks for pointing that out. Giving the =
complete Python version can be useful.

I =
suggest to replace:

The code below shows a =
python3 implementation of the comparison
 algorithm =
described above.  The full python3 implementation including
 unittests can be optained at https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
 [1].

with something like =
this:

The code below shows a Python3 =
implementation of the comparison
 algorithm. The full =
code was tested with Python 3.6.3 and can be
 optained =
at https://github.com/stoffi92/flowspec-cmp
 [1].

Works for =
me.

a) adding the full Python =
version (not only 3) I was running the tests on
b) not =
mentioning the unittests as Job suggested (I somehow missed that)

I suggest I wait for some more feedback (if =
any) on the current -5 document and upload a -6 by the end of the =
week.

I'm OK with that =
but for that matter, I don't see any special reason to wait, you can go =
ahead and upload -6 whenever you have it. It is easy to do a -7 if =
needed, after all.

Thanks,

--John

=

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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14
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--Apple-Mail=_BE94F6E2-A73B-44BF-B941-ADECB518A0E6
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii

Hi All,

This WGLC has concluded. Based on feedback from the WG, we will forward =
the draft for publication as an RFC. A few notes:

- I have some editorial comments I'll forward as part of the document =
shepherd process.
- I think the discussion about document status between Robert and Randy =
didn't conclude other than with implicit agreement to disagree. There =
was no WG consensus to change the intended status, but I'll note it as =
part of the shepherd writeup for the IESG to be aware of.
- No objections to publication were raised related to the late IPR =
disclosure by Cisco.
- Stephane Litkowski, listed in the "authors" section (Section 2 of the =
draft) hasn't replied regarding IPR. I'll note this in the shepherd =
writeup.

Thanks,

--John

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:30 PM, John Scudder  wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> (This is the first of a series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. =
We will stagger the WGLCs somewhat.)
>=20
> A working group last call has been requested for =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. Please reply to the list =
with your comments. As usual note we cannot advance the draft without =
participation from the group. Please get your comments in before October =
20, 2017.
>=20
> Authors, please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed.=20
>=20
> =
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html=
_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&d=3DDwICAg&c=
=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DhLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&=
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ZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=3D=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> =
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--Apple-Mail=_BE94F6E2-A73B-44BF-B941-ADECB518A0E6
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

Hi All,

This WGLC has concluded. Based on feedback from the WG, we =
will forward the draft for publication as an RFC. A few notes:

- I have some editorial =
comments I'll forward as part of the document shepherd =
process.
- I think the discussion about document =
status between Robert and Randy didn't conclude other than with implicit =
agreement to disagree. There was no WG consensus to change the intended =
status, but I'll note it as part of the shepherd writeup for the IESG to =
be aware of.
- No objections to publication were =
raised related to the late IPR disclosure by Cisco.
- Stephane Litkowski, listed in the "authors" section (Section =
2 of the draft) hasn't replied regarding IPR. I'll note this in the =
shepherd writeup.

Thanks,

--John

On =
Oct 6, 2017, at 8:30 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> =
wrote:

Hi All,

(This is the first of a =
series of WGLCs as we work to clear backlog. We will stagger the WGLCs =
somewhat.)

A working group last call has =
been requested for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-14. =
Please reply to the list with your comments. As usual note we cannot =
advance the draft without participation from the group. Please get your =
comments in before October 20, 2017.

Authors,=
 please confirm that any relevant IPR has been disclosed. 

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ie=
tf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Doptimal-2Droute-2Dreflection-2D14&a=
mp;d=3DDwICAg&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3D=
hLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&m=3D2T8sWKXOuk1R-CTDDPFM8HO_a6AbOHGOseJ81Ht9_4Q=
&s=3DyunFv1zXtd-bLp5IQGspvPZQYpLtAFtcXdjv_vA4-rU&e=3D 

Thanks,

--John
_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
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=

--Apple-Mail=_BE94F6E2-A73B-44BF-B941-ADECB518A0E6--


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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-15 comments and suggestions
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Hi Authors,

As part of working on the shepherd's report I came up with a few fairly =
minor comments and suggestions. If you choose not to adopt #1 (not =
necessarily the exact text) I'd be interested in further discussion.

Some of my comments suggest replacing the term "optimal" with something =
more specific. I suggest this even though I do note your paragraph that =
begins "In this approach, optimal refers to..." (which might go well in =
the Introduction or even definitions, by the way?).

1. The document uses the term "best path" in many places. The term is =
used in the sense BGP practitioners tend to use it, and not the common =
English sense. This might be a problem for reviewers who aren't BGP =
subject experts. I suggest adding a definition to section 1 or =
elsewhere, along the lines of,

best path - the route chosen by the decision process detailed in [RFC =
4271] section 9.1.2 and its subsections.
best path computation, best path algorithm, best path selection - the =
decision process detailed in [RFC 4271] section 9.1.2 and its =
subsections.

2. "best exit point" --> "closest exit point"

3. "add/diverse path deployments" should have references to RFC 7911 and =
RFC 6774.=20

4. The reference to draft-ietf-idr-add-paths needs to be updated to =
point to RFC 7911.

5. "While the route
   reflector chooses one set of n paths" --> "When the..."

6. "enough so to make it typically undesirable" -> "enough so to =
typically make it undesirable"

7. "optimal distance to the next hops" --> "shortest distance to the =
next hops" ?

8. "This also provides for freedom" --> "This provides for freedom"

9. "allows transient or permanent migration of
   this network control plane function to an optimal location" -->
"allows transient or permanent migration of
   this network control plane function to an arbitrary location"

10. "The choice of specific granularity is left to the implementation
   decision" -->
... left as an implementation decision
or
... left to the implementor to decide

11. "implementation may automate it
   based on specified heuristics" -->
"implementation may automate it
   based on heuristics"
or if "specified" means something, it needs to be elaborated

12. "In situations where BGP next hop" --> "In situations where the BGP =
next hop"

13. In section 4.3, aren't paras 1 and 3 redundant, especially starting =
from "will be applied first" in both paragraphs?=20

14. "one or more backup virtual
   location SHOULD" -->
"one or more backup virtual
   locations SHOULD"

15. "overhead is comparable to existing BGP export policies therefore" =
--> "overhead is comparable to existing BGP export policies and =
therefore"

16. "In the
   networks where there are" -->
"In
   networks where there are"

Thanks,

--John=


From nobody Mon Oct 30 01:50:50 2017
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" 
To: idr wg 
CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Call for IETF 100 IDR agenda items
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--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279810F11CNKGEML515MBSchi_
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Dear all,

According to the currently received slot requests, we still have time avail=
able for additional topics. If you have a new draft, or an update of existi=
ng draft which you'd like to discuss on the meeting, please send your reque=
st to me and CC the chairs as soon as possible. Please include the name of =
the person who will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll need (inclu=
ding Q/A).

Best regards,
Jie

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:34 PM
To: idr wg 
Cc: idr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] Call for IETF 100 IDR agenda items


Dear all,



The IDR session on IETF 100 is scheduled on Monday, November 13th from 13:3=
0 to 15:30. Please send any IDR agenda items you might have to me and CC th=
e chairs, the deadline is October 29 by UTC time 23:59. Please include the =
name of the person who will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll nee=
d (including Q/A).



If you plan to make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, =
"no Internet Draft - no time slot". You should also plan to send your slide=
s to me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours prior to the meeting, thou=
gh earlier is better. If we don't have your slides by the deadline, you may=
 lose your slot. Please number your slides for the benefit of remote attend=
ees. By default your slides will be converted to PDF and presented from the=
 PDF. If you need to use any fancy builds or transitions, please make sure =
to arrange this with us in advance.



And potential presenters, please take a look at the checklist for presentin=
g at IDR:

https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%2=
0at%20an%20IDR%20meeting



Best regards,

Jie


--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279810F11CNKGEML515MBSchi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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Dear al=
l, 


&n=
bsp;


Accordi=
ng to the currently received slot requests, we still have time available fo=
r additional topics. If you have a new draft, or an update of existing draf=
t which you’d like to discuss on the meeting,
 please send your request to me and CC the chairs as soon as possible. Plea=
se include the name of the person who will be presenting, and the estimate =
time you'll need (including Q/A).


&n=
bsp;


Best re=
gards,


Jie


&n=
bsp;








From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:34 PM

To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>

Cc: idr-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: [Idr] Call for IETF 100 IDR agenda items<=
/p>





 


Dear all,<=
/o:p>


 


The IDR session=
 on IETF 100 is scheduled on Monday, November 13th from 13:30 to 15:30. Ple=
ase send any IDR agenda items you might have to me and CC the chairs, the d=
eadline is October 29 by UTC time 23:59. Please include the name of the per=
son who will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll need (including Q/=
A).


 


If you plan to =
make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, "no Intern=
et Draft - no time slot". You should also plan to send your slides to =
me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours prior to the meeting, though ea=
rlier is better. If we don't have your slides by the deadline, you may lose=
 your slot. Please number your slides for the benefit of remote attendees. =
By default your slides will be converted to PDF and presented from the PDF.=
 If you need to use any fancy builds or transitions, please make sure to ar=
range this with us in advance. 


 


And potential p=
resenters, please take a look at the checklist for presenting at IDR:<=
/o:p>


https://trac.tools.ietf=
.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%20at%20an%20IDR%20meetin=
g


 


Best regards,


Jie


 








--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C9279810F11CNKGEML515MBSchi_--


From nobody Mon Oct 30 06:28:55 2017
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Route Target Constrained Distribution of Routes with no Route Targets
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Jeffrey Haas
                          Robert Raszuk
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-08.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2017-10-30

Abstract:
   There are a variety of BGP-enabled services in which the originator
   of a BGP route may attach one or more "Route Targets" to the route.
   By means of a procedure known as "RT Constrained Distribution" (RTC),
   a given BGP speaker (call it "B") can announce the set of RTs in
   which it has interest.  The implication is that if a particular route
   (call it "R") carries any RTs at all, BGP speaker B wants to receive
   route R if and only if B has announced interest in one of the RTs
   carried by R.  However, if route R does not carry any RTs at all,
   prior specifications do not make it clear whether B's use of RTC
   implies that it does not want to receive route R.  This has caused
   interoperability problems in the field, as some implementations of
   RTC do not allow B to receive R, but some services presuppose that B
   will receive R.  This document updates RFC 4684 by clarifying the
   effect of the RTC mechanism on routes that do not have any RTs.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Oct 30 15:51:13 2017
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Extended Message support for BGP
        Authors         : Randy Bush
                          Keyur Patel
                          Dave Ward
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2017-10-28

Abstract:
   The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096
   octets.  As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other
   features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond
   4096 octets.  This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by
   providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message
   size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN
   message.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Oct 30 20:48:43 2017
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 03:48:38 +0000
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From: Randy Bush 
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23.txt
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> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
> 
>         Title           : Extended Message support for BGP
>         Authors         : Randy Bush
>                           Keyur Patel
>                           Dave Ward
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-23.txt
> 	Pages           : 6
> 	Date            : 2017-10-28
> 
> Abstract:
>    The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096
>    octets.  As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other
>    features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond
>    4096 octets.  This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by
>    providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message
>    size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN
>    message.

there are at least two implementations

this version adds the following to sec cons (thanks jgs)

   Due to increased (over [RFC4272]) memory requirements for buffering,
   there may be increased exposure to resource exhaustion, intentional
   or unintentional.

i think it is ready for wglc

randy