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From: "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
To: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
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Thread-Topic: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 16:32:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>
CC: "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15
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From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Hares Susan <shares@ndzh.com>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04 (March 7 to March 21)
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/CZZNcxaacR_2Wjw6Uh-j-wNyCEA>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04 (March 7 to March 21)
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--_000_13E0BAF54B89484ABB321709983B7CA0junipernet_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

All authors and contributors have now replied to the IPR poll and the WGLC =
is successfully concluded. We will start working on the shepherd report. If=
 someone volunteers to shepherd, things will go faster.

If you have an implementation, please update the implementation report at h=
ttps://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ex=
t-implementations. If you want to do this but don't know how, please contac=
t the chairs for help. Right now the implementation report covers IOS-{XR,X=
E}.

--John

On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndz=
h.com>> wrote:

This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04=
.txt from March 7th to March 21.  During your discussion in the WG LC, plea=
se indicate the following things:

1)      Do you think BGP should carry these link state information regardin=
g segment routing,
2)      Are there any technical issues with this draft?
3)      Is this draft is ready for publication?

For your quick access to this draft, click on the link below:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/=
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.or=
g_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Dls-2Dsegment-2Drouting-2Dext_&d=3DDwMFAg&c=
=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DhLt5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&m=
=3D3pBRW5OlaObvYE10kPxvrYqVb8UsoEOYbds7iK4DUr8&s=3Dm360cMi-bRz0Ok7C0m8oGZFx=
wZySZQ8so2kRamlbpAU&e=3D>


Susan Hares

--_000_13E0BAF54B89484ABB321709983B7CA0junipernet_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
Hi All,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">All authors and contributors have now replied to the IPR po=
ll and the WGLC is successfully concluded. We will start working on the she=
pherd report. If someone volunteers to shepherd, things will go faster.&nbs=
p;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">If you have an implementation, please update the implementa=
tion report at&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ie=
tf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-implementations" class=3D"">https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-implementa=
tions</a>.
 If you want to do this but don't know how, please contact the chairs for h=
elp. Right now the implementation report covers IOS-{XR,XE}.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">--John</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:shares@ndzh.com" class=3D"">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helve=
tica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-=
weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px=
; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-tex=
t-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
This begins a 2 week WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04=
.txt from March 7<sup class=3D"">th</sup><span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce">&nbsp;</span>to March 21.&nbsp; During your discussion in the WG LC, pl=
ease indicate the following things:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"">1)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span dir=3D"LTR" cla=
ss=3D""></span>Do
 you think BGP should carry these link state information regarding segment =
routing,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D"">=
</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"">2)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span dir=3D"LTR" cla=
ss=3D""></span>Are
 there any technical issues with this draft?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-=
space">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D"">
<span class=3D"">3)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family=
: 'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span dir=3D"LTR" cla=
ss=3D""></span>Is
 this draft is ready for publication?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
For your quick access to this draft, click on the link below:<span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatrack=
er.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Didr-2Dbgp-2Dls-2Dsegment-2Drouting-2Dext_&am=
p;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&amp;r=3DhL=
t5iDJpw7ukqICc0hoT7A&amp;m=3D3pBRW5OlaObvYE10kPxvrYqVb8UsoEOYbds7iK4DUr8&am=
p;s=3Dm360cMi-bRz0Ok7C0m8oGZFxwZySZQ8so2kRamlbpAU&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color:=
 purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p>=
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
<o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
Susan Hares</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_13E0BAF54B89484ABB321709983B7CA0junipernet_--


From nobody Thu May  3 07:15:22 2018
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis - duplicate types, improper lengths?
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IDR,

I'm having trouble getting a good search on the IETF site for these matters,
so please forgive me if this should have been answered in the archives.

Flowspec specifies a series of subcomponents for filtering.

I don't recall seeing any advice regarding dealing with duplicates.  At
best, the following is present:

:   All combinations of component types within a single NLRI are allowed,
:   even if the combination makes no sense from a semantical perspective.

A somewhat more minor point, some components use a common header with a
defined length.  Using Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:

:      len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) -
:      4 (11) bytes.  Type 3 flow component values are always encoded as
:      single byte (len = 00).

The question being the semantic validity when the length is incorrect.
There are two cases here:
1. The value is still within the correct range.  E.g. 1-4 byte
   representations of the protocol nummber as long as the value is <= 255.
2. The value exceeds the correct range.  Syntactically correct, semantically
   incorrect.  Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI formatting issue with
   resultant treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depending on error-handling?

A final comment on future extensions:
The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the sub-types.  A
negative consequence of this is that implementations that do not understand
a future sub-type cannot validate the correctness of the NLRI.  However, it
should still be propagated:

:   receiver.  Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a logical
:   AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, by definition it
:   cannot be applied.  However, for the purposes of BGP route
:   propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since BGP route
:   distribution is independent on NLRI semantics.

This means that failures will be detected potentially "far away".


-- Jeff


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> On May 3, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
> The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the sub-types.  A
> negative consequence of this is that implementations that do not =
understand
> a future sub-type cannot validate the correctness of the NLRI.  =
However, it
> should still be propagated:
>=20
> :   receiver.  Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a =
logical
> :   AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, by definition it
> :   cannot be applied.  However, for the purposes of BGP route
> :   propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since BGP =
route
> :   distribution is independent on NLRI semantics.
>=20
> This means that failures will be detected potentially "far away".

That=E2=80=99s alarming, if "session bounce depending on =
error-handling=E2=80=9D.

Session bounce =E2=80=9Cfar away=E2=80=9D was the AS4_PATH problem that =
induced the revised error-handling in RFC7606.

It would be a shame to design a feature (to have designed a feature?) =
that did not take advantage of the lessons learned and RFC7606.

=E2=80=94Sandy=


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From: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
To: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
CC: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
Thread-Index: AQHT0uuAIyyPj6TSKkC7hpPOOBsfrqQVHkWAgADlwwCACFzuAA==
Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 17:38:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis - duplicate types, improper lengths?
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Hi Jeff,

Thanks for asking those questions. See my comments (unfortunately some =
of them quite long) inline.

Christoph

--
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at


> On 03.05.2018, at 16:16, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
> IDR,
>=20
> I'm having trouble getting a good search on the IETF site for these =
matters,
> so please forgive me if this should have been answered in the =
archives.
>=20
> Flowspec specifies a series of subcomponents for filtering.
>=20
> I don't recall seeing any advice regarding dealing with duplicates.  =
At
> best, the following is present:

Actually this is what you are looking for=E2=80=A6 No duplicates are =
possible/allowed following the rule below:

   Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value.

However, I totally agree with you that this is not very intuitive. In =
case of duplicate component types (types with equal numeric value) one =
of the duplicate components do NOT precede a component of higher numeric =
type value.

I would suggest to make this small change:

   Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may (exactly =
once) or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value.


> A somewhat more minor point, some components use a common header with =
a
> defined length.  Using Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:
>=20
> :      len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) =
-
> :      4 (11) bytes.  Type 3 flow component values are always encoded =
as
> :      single byte (len =3D 00).
>=20
> The question being the semantic validity when the length is incorrect.
> There are two cases here:

In this case the idea was, that the length of a type-3 component MUST =
always be 1 (len=3D00). If this is not the case the NLRI encoding is =
syntactically incorrect.

> 1. The value is still within the correct range.  E.g. 1-4 byte
>   representations of the protocol nummber as long as the value is <=3D =
255.

Incorrect if len!=3D00 because type-3 flow components require len=3D00.

> 2. The value exceeds the correct range.  Syntactically correct, =
semantically
>   incorrect.  Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI formatting issue with
>   resultant treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depending on =
error-handling?

Since the allowed len field is defined for all the component-types this =
situation is not possible. IF the len field is correct to specification, =
there is no need to verify the range of the value, since it is within =
the correct range (if I did not miss anything here).

> A final comment on future extensions:
> The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the sub-types.  A
> negative consequence of this is that implementations that do not =
understand
> a future sub-type cannot validate the correctness of the NLRI.  =
However, it
> should still be propagated:

This is true, but I think it is not the purpose of this draft to change =
this. RFC5575bis draft is meant to be compatible with what is out there, =
but at the same time to be more precise and increase interoperability, =
while not breaking too much (since most of the bigger vendors, after our =
interop initiative, already aligned their implementation with what we =
later published as this draft).

>=20
> :   receiver.  Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a =
logical
> :   AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, by definition it
> :   cannot be applied.  However, for the purposes of BGP route
> :   propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since BGP =
route
> :   distribution is independent on NLRI semantics.

I need to read this again. But the idea is that the implementation =
should only propagate syntactically correct NLRIs. Updates that are =
malformed are subject to error handling (notification, treat as =
withdraw). But we wanted to decouple the syntax from the semantics.

The reason for this decoupling is something that we observed frequently =
when we looked into flowspec implementations. Some implementations only =
propagated flowspec filters when they where actually able to program =
that particular filter into the data-plane. For IP-routing this =
perfectly makes sense: When you are not able to forward a specific =
packet to its destination it is a good idea not to propagate that =
particular route. With flowspec this is a different story. If you cannot =
apply a flowspec-filter in your data-plane I think there are still good =
reasons why the NLRI should still be propagated.

The reason why filters could not be applied were not always because of =
the NLRI not matching any packet. But often because the hardware did not =
support specific filters (ie. because of complexity) but also because =
the hardware did not support specific actions (since actions are encoded =
into the extended-communities, those may also get rewritten when =
propagated in the network, they may still be meaningful at some other =
place in the net).

> This means that failures will be detected potentially "far away=E2=80=9D=
.

Yes and no. Semantical nonsense may be propagated but has no real =
operational impact (ie not matching packets, never resulting in any =
data-plane filters). But syntactical incorrect NLRIs (not decode-able) =
are not propagated at all (I will read this part again, I thought that =
it is clear that a NLRI that is syntactical incorrect cannot be =
propagated).

Christoph




--Apple-Mail=_67D5DB88-3C56-425F-974B-F8BBCDBC5424
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Jeff,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for =
asking those questions. See my comments (unfortunately some of them =
quite long) inline.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Christoph</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Christoph =
Loibl<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:c@tix.at" =
class=3D"">c@tix.at</a>&nbsp;| CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID:&nbsp;0x4B2C0055 =
|&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.nextlayer.at" =
class=3D"">http://www.nextlayer.at</a></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 03.05.2018, at 16:16, Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" class=3D"">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">IDR,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I'm having trouble getting =
a good search on the IETF site for these matters,<br class=3D"">so =
please forgive me if this should have been answered in the archives.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Flowspec specifies a series of subcomponents =
for filtering.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't recall seeing any =
advice regarding dealing with duplicates. &nbsp;At<br class=3D"">best, =
the following is present:<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Actually this is what you are looking for=E2=80=A6 No =
duplicates are possible/allowed following the rule below:<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><pre class=3D"newpage" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
break-before: page; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;">   Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value.</pre><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">However, I totally agree with you that =
this is not very intuitive. In case of duplicate component types (types =
with equal numeric value) one of the duplicate components do NOT precede =
a component of higher numeric type value.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I would suggest to make this small =
change:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><pre class=3D"newpage" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
break-before: page; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;">   Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may (exactly =
once) or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value. </pre><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">A somewhat more minor point, =
some components use a common header with a<br class=3D"">defined length. =
&nbsp;Using Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;len - length of the value =
field for this operand encodes 1 (00) -<br class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4 (11) bytes. &nbsp;Type 3 flow component =
values are always encoded as<br class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;single byte (len =3D 00).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The question being the semantic validity when the length is =
incorrect.<br class=3D"">There are two cases here:<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>In =
this case the idea was, that the length of a type-3 component MUST =
always be 1 (len=3D00). If this is not the case the NLRI encoding is =
syntactically incorrect.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">1. The value is =
still within the correct range. &nbsp;E.g. 1-4 byte<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;representations of the protocol nummber as long as the value =
is &lt;=3D 255.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Incorrect if len!=3D00 because type-3 flow =
components require len=3D00.&nbsp;</div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">2. The value =
exceeds the correct range. &nbsp;Syntactically correct, semantically<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;incorrect. &nbsp;Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI =
formatting issue with<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;resultant =
treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depending on error-handling?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Since =
the allowed len field is defined for all the component-types this =
situation is not possible. IF the len field is correct to specification, =
there is no need to verify the range of the value, since it is within =
the correct range (if I did not miss anything here).&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">A final comment on future extensions:<br class=3D"">The =
flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the sub-types. &nbsp;A<br =
class=3D"">negative consequence of this is that implementations that do =
not understand<br class=3D"">a future sub-type cannot validate the =
correctness of the NLRI. &nbsp;However, it<br class=3D"">should still be =
propagated:<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This is true, but I think it is not the =
purpose of this draft to change this. RFC5575bis draft is meant to be =
compatible with what is out there, but at the same time to be more =
precise and increase interoperability, while not breaking too much =
(since most of the bigger vendors, after our interop initiative, already =
aligned their implementation with what we later published as this =
draft).&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;receiver. &nbsp;Since a Flow Specification has the semantics =
of a logical<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;AND of all components, if a =
component is FALSE, by definition it<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;cannot =
be applied. &nbsp;However, for the purposes of BGP route<br class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since =
BGP route<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;distribution is independent on =
NLRI semantics.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I need to read this again. But the idea is that =
the implementation should only propagate syntactically correct NLRIs. =
Updates that are malformed are subject to error handling (notification, =
treat as withdraw). But we wanted to decouple the syntax from the =
semantics.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The reason for this =
decoupling is something that we observed frequently when we looked into =
flowspec implementations. Some implementations only propagated flowspec =
filters when they where actually able to program that particular filter =
into the data-plane. For IP-routing this perfectly makes sense: When you =
are not able to forward a specific packet to its destination it is a =
good idea not to propagate that particular route. With flowspec this is =
a different story. If you cannot apply a flowspec-filter in your =
data-plane I think there are still good reasons why the NLRI should =
still be propagated.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The =
reason why filters could not be applied were not always because of the =
NLRI not matching any packet. But often because the hardware did not =
support specific filters (ie. because of complexity) but also because =
the hardware did not support specific actions (since actions are encoded =
into the extended-communities, those may also get rewritten when =
propagated in the network, they may still be meaningful at some other =
place in the net).</div><div><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">This means that =
failures will be detected potentially "far away=E2=80=9D.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yes =
and no. Semantical nonsense may be propagated but has no real =
operational impact (ie not matching packets, never resulting in any =
data-plane filters). But syntactical incorrect NLRIs (not decode-able) =
are not propagated at all (I will read this part again, I thought that =
it is clear that a NLRI that is syntactical incorrect cannot be =
propagated).</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Christoph</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Thu May  3 13:30:09 2018
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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To: Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis - duplicate types, improper lengths?
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Christoph,

> On May 3, 2018, at 3:47 PM, Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at> wrote:
>=20
> Actually this is what you are looking for=E2=80=A6 No duplicates are =
possible/allowed following the rule below:
>=20
>    Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
>    increasing numerical order.  A given component type may or may not =
be
>    present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
>    component of higher numeric type value.
>=20
> However, I totally agree with you that this is not very intuitive. In =
case of duplicate component types (types with equal numeric value) one =
of the duplicate components do NOT precede a component of higher numeric =
type value.

In the scheme of BGP document pedantry... I can agree that this is a =
valid way of saying "no duplicates".  But this might be worth:

>=20
> I would suggest to make this small change:
>=20
>    Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
>    increasing numerical order.  A given component type may (exactly =
once) or may not be
>    present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
>    component of higher numeric type value.=20

... putting this in the -bis. =20

I realize this is late in the publication game.

>=20
>=20
>> A somewhat more minor point, some components use a common header with =
a
>> defined length.  Using Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:
>>=20
>> :      len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 =
(00) -
>> :      4 (11) bytes.  Type 3 flow component values are always encoded =
as
>> :      single byte (len =3D 00).
>>=20
>> The question being the semantic validity when the length is =
incorrect.
>> There are two cases here:
>=20
> In this case the idea was, that the length of a type-3 component MUST =
always be 1 (len=3D00). If this is not the case the NLRI encoding is =
syntactically incorrect.=20
>=20
>> 1. The value is still within the correct range.  E.g. 1-4 byte
>>   representations of the protocol nummber as long as the value is <=3D =
255.
>=20
> Incorrect if len!=3D00 because type-3 flow components require len=3D00.=20=

>=20
>> 2. The value exceeds the correct range.  Syntactically correct, =
semantically
>>   incorrect.  Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI formatting issue with
>>   resultant treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depending on =
error-handling?
>=20
> Since the allowed len field is defined for all the component-types =
this situation is not possible. IF the len field is correct to =
specification, there is no need to verify the range of the value, since =
it is within the correct range (if I did not miss anything here).=20

This is certainly a valid interpretation of the spec.  It does, however, =
violate Postel's law.

The issue of course is that if your implementation accepts a looser size =
type and it's within the proper semantic range, a downstream receiving =
exactly the same size may not accept it.  One's implementation might =
arguably accept the mis-sized values and reformat them on send.


>=20
>> A final comment on future extensions:
>> The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the sub-types.  A
>> negative consequence of this is that implementations that do not =
understand
>> a future sub-type cannot validate the correctness of the NLRI.  =
However, it
>> should still be propagated:
>=20
> This is true, but I think it is not the purpose of this draft to =
change this.

No argument on this point.  But the realization also has the implication =
mentioned afterward.

>> :   receiver.  Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a =
logical
>> :   AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, by definition it
>> :   cannot be applied.  However, for the purposes of BGP route
>> :   propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since BGP =
route
>> :   distribution is independent on NLRI semantics.
>=20
> I need to read this again. But the idea is that the implementation =
should only propagate syntactically correct NLRIs. Updates that are =
malformed are subject to error handling (notification, treat as =
withdraw). But we wanted to decouple the syntax from the semantics.

Based on the rules, you can't tell if it's syntactically correct if you =
receive a subcomponent that you do not recognize.

(This hits a common gripe of mine in protocols regarding implicit =
lengths.)

>=20
> The reason for this decoupling is something that we observed =
frequently when we looked into flowspec implementations. Some =
implementations only propagated flowspec filters when they where =
actually able to program that particular filter into the data-plane. For =
IP-routing this perfectly makes sense: When you are not able to forward =
a specific packet to its destination it is a good idea not to propagate =
that particular route. With flowspec this is a different story. If you =
cannot apply a flowspec-filter in your data-plane I think there are =
still good reasons why the NLRI should still be propagated.=20

I agree.  And this tends to follow the principle within networks that =
it's okay for things like route reflectors to be dumb about some details =
since they're not in the forwarding path.

>=20
>> This means that failures will be detected potentially "far away=E2=80=9D=
.
>=20
> Yes and no. Semantical nonsense may be propagated but has no real =
operational impact (ie not matching packets, never resulting in any =
data-plane filters). But syntactical incorrect NLRIs (not decode-able) =
are not propagated at all (I will read this part again, I thought that =
it is clear that a NLRI that is syntactical incorrect cannot be =
propagated).

I suspect you'll find you are mistaken in this detail.  If you propagate =
things you don't understand (new component), it might be malformed.

-- Jeff


--Apple-Mail=_9C897E65-DC23-46C1-9C52-308D541CDE57
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Christoph,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On May 3, 2018, at 3:47 PM, =
Christoph Loibl &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c@tix.at" =
class=3D"">c@tix.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Actually this is what you are looking =
for=E2=80=A6 No duplicates are possible/allowed following the rule =
below:<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><pre =
class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; break-before: page; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
orphans: 2; widows: 2;">   Flow Specification components must follow =
strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value.</pre><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">However, I totally agree with you that =
this is not very intuitive. In case of duplicate component types (types =
with equal numeric value) one of the duplicate components do NOT precede =
a component of higher numeric type =
value.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>In the scheme of BGP document pedantry... I can agree =
that this is a valid way of saying "no duplicates". &nbsp;But this might =
be worth:</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I would suggest to make this small change:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><pre class=3D"newpage" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.3333px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
break-before: page; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;">   Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may (exactly =
once) or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value. =
</pre></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>... putting this in the -bis. &nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>I realize this is late in the publication =
game.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><div=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D"">A somewhat more minor point, some components =
use a common header with a<br class=3D"">defined length. &nbsp;Using =
Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;len - length of the value field for this =
operand encodes 1 (00) -<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4 =
(11) bytes. &nbsp;Type 3 flow component values are always encoded as<br =
class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;single byte (len =3D 00).<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The question being the semantic validity when =
the length is incorrect.<br class=3D"">There are two cases here:<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In this case the idea was, that the =
length of a type-3 component MUST always be 1 (len=3D00). If this is not =
the case the NLRI encoding is syntactically incorrect.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">1. The value is still within the correct =
range. &nbsp;E.g. 1-4 byte<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;representations of =
the protocol nummber as long as the value is &lt;=3D 255.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Incorrect if len!=3D00 because type-3 =
flow components require len=3D00.&nbsp;</div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">2. The value =
exceeds the correct range. &nbsp;Syntactically correct, semantically<br =
class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;incorrect. &nbsp;Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI =
formatting issue with<br class=3D""> &nbsp;&nbsp;resultant =
treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depending on error-handling?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Since the allowed len field is defined =
for all the component-types this situation is not possible. IF the len =
field is correct to specification, there is no need to verify the range =
of the value, since it is within the correct range (if I did not miss =
anything here).&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>This is certainly a valid interpretation of the spec. =
&nbsp;It does, however, violate Postel's law.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>The issue of course is that if your implementation =
accepts a looser size type and it's within the proper semantic range, a =
downstream receiving exactly the same size may not accept it. =
&nbsp;One's implementation might arguably accept the mis-sized values =
and reformat them on send.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">A final comment on future extensions:<br =
class=3D"">The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the =
sub-types. &nbsp;A<br class=3D"">negative consequence of this is that =
implementations that do not understand<br class=3D"">a future sub-type =
cannot validate the correctness of the NLRI. &nbsp;However, it<br =
class=3D"">should still be propagated:<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This is true, but I think it is not the =
purpose of this draft to change =
this.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>No argument on this point. &nbsp;But the realization =
also has the implication mentioned afterward.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;receiver. &nbsp;Since a Flow Specification has the semantics =
of a logical<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;AND of all components, if a =
component is FALSE, by definition it<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;cannot =
be applied. &nbsp;However, for the purposes of BGP route<br class=3D"">: =
&nbsp;&nbsp;propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since =
BGP route<br class=3D"">: &nbsp;&nbsp;distribution is independent on =
NLRI semantics.<br class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I need to read this again. But the =
idea is that the implementation should only propagate syntactically =
correct NLRIs. Updates that are malformed are subject to error handling =
(notification, treat as withdraw). But we wanted to decouple the syntax =
from the semantics.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Based on the rules, you can't tell if it's =
syntactically correct if you receive a subcomponent that you do not =
recognize.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>(This hits a common gripe =
of mine in protocols regarding implicit lengths.)</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The reason for this =
decoupling is something that we observed frequently when we looked into =
flowspec implementations. Some implementations only propagated flowspec =
filters when they where actually able to program that particular filter =
into the data-plane. For IP-routing this perfectly makes sense: When you =
are not able to forward a specific packet to its destination it is a =
good idea not to propagate that particular route. With flowspec this is =
a different story. If you cannot apply a flowspec-filter in your =
data-plane I think there are still good reasons why the NLRI should =
still be =
propagated.&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>I agree. &nbsp;And this tends to follow the principle =
within networks that it's okay for things like route reflectors to be =
dumb about some details since they're not in the forwarding =
path.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">This means that failures will =
be detected potentially "far away=E2=80=9D.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Yes and no. Semantical nonsense may be =
propagated but has no real operational impact (ie not matching packets, =
never resulting in any data-plane filters). But syntactical incorrect =
NLRIs (not decode-able) are not propagated at all (I will read this part =
again, I thought that it is clear that a NLRI that is syntactical =
incorrect cannot be =
propagated).</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>I suspect you'll find you are mistaken in this detail. =
&nbsp;If you propagate things you don't understand (new component), it =
might be malformed.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>-- =
Jeff</div><div><br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis - duplicate types, improper lengths?
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 > If you propagate things you don't understand (new component), it might
be malformed.

It depends how you treat new SAFI. If it is opaque to BGP (example: BGP-LS)
it shouldn't really matter if you fully understand content of all
attributes carried with given NLRI.

Likewise for flowspec you may observe that BGP carries flow NLRIs + takes
care of validation but what is described in match and actions are opaque to
BGP and only relevant to your data plane (ACL) components.

Thx.
/Robert.



On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Christoph,
>
> On May 3, 2018, at 3:47 PM, Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at> wrote:
>
> Actually this is what you are looking for=E2=80=A6 No duplicates are
> possible/allowed following the rule below:
>
>    Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
>    increasing numerical order.  A given component type may or may not be
>    present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
>    component of higher numeric type value.
>
>
> However, I totally agree with you that this is not very intuitive. In cas=
e
> of duplicate component types (types with equal numeric value) one of the
> duplicate components do NOT precede a component of higher numeric type
> value.
>
>
> In the scheme of BGP document pedantry... I can agree that this is a vali=
d
> way of saying "no duplicates".  But this might be worth:
>
>
> I would suggest to make this small change:
>
>    Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by
>    increasing numerical order.  A given component type may (exactly once)=
 or may not be
>    present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
>    component of higher numeric type value.
>
>
> ... putting this in the -bis.
>
> I realize this is late in the publication game.
>
>
>
> A somewhat more minor point, some components use a common header with a
> defined length.  Using Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:
>
> :      len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) -
> :      4 (11) bytes.  Type 3 flow component values are always encoded as
> :      single byte (len =3D 00).
>
> The question being the semantic validity when the length is incorrect.
> There are two cases here:
>
>
> In this case the idea was, that the length of a type-3 component MUST
> always be 1 (len=3D00). If this is not the case the NLRI encoding is
> syntactically incorrect.
>
> 1. The value is still within the correct range.  E.g. 1-4 byte
>   representations of the protocol nummber as long as the value is <=3D 25=
5.
>
>
> Incorrect if len!=3D00 because type-3 flow components require len=3D00.
>
> 2. The value exceeds the correct range.  Syntactically correct,
> semantically
>   incorrect.  Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI formatting issue with
>   resultant treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depending on
> error-handling?
>
>
> Since the allowed len field is defined for all the component-types this
> situation is not possible. IF the len field is correct to specification,
> there is no need to verify the range of the value, since it is within the
> correct range (if I did not miss anything here).
>
>
> This is certainly a valid interpretation of the spec.  It does, however,
> violate Postel's law.
>
> The issue of course is that if your implementation accepts a looser size
> type and it's within the proper semantic range, a downstream receiving
> exactly the same size may not accept it.  One's implementation might
> arguably accept the mis-sized values and reformat them on send.
>
>
>
> A final comment on future extensions:
> The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in the sub-types.  A
> negative consequence of this is that implementations that do not understa=
nd
> a future sub-type cannot validate the correctness of the NLRI.  However, =
it
> should still be propagated:
>
>
> This is true, but I think it is not the purpose of this draft to change
> this.
>
>
> No argument on this point.  But the realization also has the implication
> mentioned afterward.
>
> :   receiver.  Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a logical
> :   AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, by definition it
> :   cannot be applied.  However, for the purposes of BGP route
> :   propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since BGP route
> :   distribution is independent on NLRI semantics.
>
>
> I need to read this again. But the idea is that the implementation should
> only propagate syntactically correct NLRIs. Updates that are malformed ar=
e
> subject to error handling (notification, treat as withdraw). But we wante=
d
> to decouple the syntax from the semantics.
>
>
> Based on the rules, you can't tell if it's syntactically correct if you
> receive a subcomponent that you do not recognize.
>
> (This hits a common gripe of mine in protocols regarding implicit lengths=
.)
>
>
> The reason for this decoupling is something that we observed frequently
> when we looked into flowspec implementations. Some implementations only
> propagated flowspec filters when they where actually able to program that
> particular filter into the data-plane. For IP-routing this perfectly make=
s
> sense: When you are not able to forward a specific packet to its
> destination it is a good idea not to propagate that particular route. Wit=
h
> flowspec this is a different story. If you cannot apply a flowspec-filter
> in your data-plane I think there are still good reasons why the NLRI shou=
ld
> still be propagated.
>
>
> I agree.  And this tends to follow the principle within networks that it'=
s
> okay for things like route reflectors to be dumb about some details since
> they're not in the forwarding path.
>
>
> This means that failures will be detected potentially "far away=E2=80=9D.
>
>
> Yes and no. Semantical nonsense may be propagated but has no real
> operational impact (ie not matching packets, never resulting in any
> data-plane filters). But syntactical incorrect NLRIs (not decode-able) ar=
e
> not propagated at all (I will read this part again, I thought that it is
> clear that a NLRI that is syntactical incorrect cannot be propagated).
>
>
> I suspect you'll find you are mistaken in this detail.  If you propagate
> things you don't understand (new component), it might be malformed.
>
> -- Jeff
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>

--00000000000047fc4b056b534672
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">

<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
2.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:nor=
mal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;=
float:none;display:inline">&gt; If you propagate things you don&#39;t under=
stand (new component), it might be malformed.</span>

<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">It depends how =
you treat new SAFI. If it is opaque to BGP (example: BGP-LS) it shouldn&#39=
;t really matter if you fully understand content of all attributes carried =
with given NLRI.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
>Likewise for flowspec you may observe that BGP carries flow NLRIs + takes =
care of validation but what is described in match and actions are opaque to=
 BGP and only relevant to your data plane (ACL) components.=C2=A0</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thx.</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">/R=
obert.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 3, 2=
018 at 10:30 PM, Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas=
@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Christoph,<div=
><br><div><span class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On May 3, 2018, a=
t 3:47 PM, Christoph Loibl &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c@tix.at" target=3D"_blank=
">c@tix.at</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line=
-break:after-white-space"><div><div><div><br></div>Actually this is what yo=
u are looking for=E2=80=A6 No duplicates are possible/allowed following the=
 rule below:<br><div><br></div><pre class=3D"m_5044369590529968366newpage" =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:=
page;font-variant-ligatures:normal">   Flow Specification components must f=
ollow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may or may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value.</pre><div><br></div><div>However=
, I totally agree with you that this is not very intuitive. In case of dupl=
icate component types (types with equal numeric value) one of the duplicate=
 components do NOT precede a component of higher numeric type value.</div><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>In the scheme of =
BGP document pedantry... I can agree that this is a valid way of saying &qu=
ot;no duplicates&quot;.=C2=A0 But this might be worth:</div><div><span clas=
s=3D""><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-wor=
d;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><div><br></div><div>I would sugge=
st to make this small change:</div><div><br></div><div><pre class=3D"m_5044=
369590529968366newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-=
bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-variant-ligatures:normal">   Flow Specifi=
cation components must follow strict type ordering by
   increasing numerical order.  A given component type may (exactly once) o=
r may not be
   present in the specification, but if present, it MUST precede any
   component of higher numeric type value. </pre></div></div></div></div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>... putting this in the -bis. =C2=A0=
</div><div><br></div><div>I realize this is late in the publication game.</=
div><div><span class=3D""><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"=
word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><div><div><br>=
</div></div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>A somewhat m=
ore minor point, some components use a common header with a<br>defined leng=
th.=C2=A0 Using Type 3 (IP Protocol) as an example:<br><br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0len - length of the value field for this operand encodes =
1 (00) -<br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A04 (11) bytes.=C2=A0 Type 3 flow=
 component values are always encoded as<br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
single byte (len =3D 00).<br><br>The question being the semantic validity w=
hen the length is incorrect.<br>There are two cases here:<br></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>In this case the idea was, that the length o=
f a type-3 component MUST always be 1 (len=3D00). If this is not the case t=
he NLRI encoding is syntactically incorrect.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>1. The value is still within the correct ra=
nge.=C2=A0 E.g. 1-4 byte<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0representations of the protocol nu=
mmber as long as the value is &lt;=3D 255.<br></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>Incorrect if len!=3D00 because type-3 flow components requi=
re len=3D00.=C2=A0</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>2. The valu=
e exceeds the correct range.=C2=A0 Syntactically correct, semantically<br> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0incorrect.=C2=A0 Ignore filter, or treat as NLRI formatting iss=
ue with<br> =C2=A0=C2=A0resultant treat-as-withdraw or session bounce depen=
ding on error-handling?<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sin=
ce the allowed len field is defined for all the component-types this situat=
ion is not possible. IF the len field is correct to specification, there is=
 no need to verify the range of the value, since it is within the correct r=
ange (if I did not miss anything here).=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div></span>This is certainly a valid interpretation=
 of the spec.=C2=A0 It does, however, violate Postel&#39;s law.</div><div><=
br></div><div>The issue of course is that if your implementation accepts a =
looser size type and it&#39;s within the proper semantic range, a downstrea=
m receiving exactly the same size may not accept it.=C2=A0 One&#39;s implem=
entation might arguably accept the mis-sized values and reformat them on se=
nd.</div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D""><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div=
><div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>A final comment on=
 future extensions:<br>The flowspec feature relies on implicit lengths in t=
he sub-types. =C2=A0A<br>negative consequence of this is that implementatio=
ns that do not understand<br>a future sub-type cannot validate the correctn=
ess of the NLRI.=C2=A0 However, it<br>should still be propagated:<br></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is true, but I think it is not =
the purpose of this draft to change this.</div></div></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div></span>No argument on this point.=C2=A0 But the rea=
lization also has the implication mentioned afterward.</div><div><span clas=
s=3D""><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-wor=
d;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><d=
iv>: =C2=A0=C2=A0receiver.=C2=A0 Since a Flow Specification has the semanti=
cs of a logical<br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0AND of all components, if a component is F=
ALSE, by definition it<br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0cannot be applied.=C2=A0 However, f=
or the purposes of BGP route<br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0propagation, this prefix shou=
ld still be transmitted since BGP route<br>: =C2=A0=C2=A0distribution is in=
dependent on NLRI semantics.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>I need to read this again. But the idea is that the implementation should=
 only propagate syntactically correct NLRIs. Updates that are malformed are=
 subject to error handling (notification, treat as withdraw). But we wanted=
 to decouple the syntax from the semantics.</div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div></span>Based on the rules, you can&#39;t tell if =
it&#39;s syntactically correct if you receive a subcomponent that you do no=
t recognize.</div><div><br></div><div>(This hits a common gripe of mine in =
protocols regarding implicit lengths.)</div><div><span class=3D""><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:aft=
er-white-space"><div><div><div><br></div><div>The reason for this decouplin=
g is something that we observed frequently when we looked into flowspec imp=
lementations. Some implementations only propagated flowspec filters when th=
ey where actually able to program that particular filter into the data-plan=
e. For IP-routing this perfectly makes sense: When you are not able to forw=
ard a specific packet to its destination it is a good idea not to propagate=
 that particular route. With flowspec this is a different story. If you can=
not apply a flowspec-filter in your data-plane I think there are still good=
 reasons why the NLRI should still be propagated.=C2=A0</div></div></div></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>I agree.=C2=A0 And this tends =
to follow the principle within networks that it&#39;s okay for things like =
route reflectors to be dumb about some details since they&#39;re not in the=
 forwarding path.</div><div><span class=3D""><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>=
<div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>This means that fai=
lures will be detected potentially &quot;far away=E2=80=9D.<br></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes and no. Semantical nonsense may be pro=
pagated but has no real operational impact (ie not matching packets, never =
resulting in any data-plane filters). But syntactical incorrect NLRIs (not =
decode-able) are not propagated at all (I will read this part again, I thou=
ght that it is clear that a NLRI that is syntactical incorrect cannot be pr=
opagated).</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>=
I suspect you&#39;ll find you are mistaken in this detail.=C2=A0 If you pro=
pagate things you don&#39;t understand (new component), it might be malform=
ed.</div><div><br></div><div>-- Jeff</div><div><br></div></div></div><br>__=
____________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/idr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 17:18:24 -0400
Cc: Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
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> On May 3, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> > If you propagate things you don't understand (new component), it =
might be malformed.=20
>=20
> It depends how you treat new SAFI. If it is opaque to BGP (example: =
BGP-LS) it shouldn't really matter if you fully understand content of =
all attributes carried with given NLRI.=20
>=20
> Likewise for flowspec you may observe that BGP carries flow NLRIs + =
takes care of validation but what is described in match and actions are =
opaque to BGP and only relevant to your data plane (ACL) components.=20

Let me make sure I have this crystal clear correct, Robert:

You're advocating "don't syntactically validate flowspec NLRI"?

-- Jeff


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On May 3, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" class=3D"">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">

<span =
style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px=
;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;=
font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(=
255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;f=
loat:none;display:inline" class=3D"">&gt; If you propagate things you =
don't understand (new component), it might be malformed.</span>

<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">It =
depends how you treat new SAFI. If it is opaque to BGP (example: BGP-LS) =
it shouldn't really matter if you fully understand content of all =
attributes carried with given NLRI.&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Likewise =
for flowspec you may observe that BGP carries flow NLRIs + takes care of =
validation but what is described in match and actions are opaque to BGP =
and only relevant to your data plane (ACL) =
components.&nbsp;</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div></div>Let me make sure I have this crystal clear =
correct, Robert:<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">You're advocating "don't syntactically validate flowspec =
NLRI"?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">-- =
Jeff</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis - duplicate types, improper lengths?
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--94eb2c03497cf7c9a6056b53db28
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 > You're advocating "don't syntactically validate flowspec NLRI"

Depends what you call as NLRI :)

For me NLRI is a field in MP_REACH  so sure you should validate MP_REACH
and other mandatory BGP attributes before propagating them. However for
optional attributes as long as their total length is fine I don't think
there is any mandate to syntactically validate any fields *embedded* within
them before BGP propagation. They should be rather opaque to BGP.

Otherwise the entire idea of optional transitive would be rather
questionable don't you think ?

Thx,
R.



On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

>
> On May 3, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> > If you propagate things you don't understand (new component), it might
> be malformed.
>
> It depends how you treat new SAFI. If it is opaque to BGP (example:
> BGP-LS) it shouldn't really matter if you fully understand content of all
> attributes carried with given NLRI.
>
> Likewise for flowspec you may observe that BGP carries flow NLRIs + takes
> care of validation but what is described in match and actions are opaque to
> BGP and only relevant to your data plane (ACL) components.
>
>
> Let me make sure I have this crystal clear correct, Robert:
>
> You're advocating "don't syntactically validate flowspec NLRI"?
>
> -- Jeff
>
>

--94eb2c03497cf7c9a6056b53db28
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">

<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
2.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:nor=
mal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;=
float:none;display:inline">&gt; You&#39;re advocating &quot;don&#39;t synta=
ctically validate flowspec NLRI&quot;</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.=
8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:norma=
l;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;te=
xt-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(=
255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;fl=
oat:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-sty=
le:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weigh=
t:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform=
:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)=
;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;dis=
play:inline">Depends what you call as NLRI :)=C2=A0</span></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant=
-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-in=
dent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8=
px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal=
;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(2=
55,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;flo=
at:none;display:inline">For me NLRI is a field in MP_REACH=C2=A0 so sure yo=
u should validate MP_REACH and other mandatory BGP attributes before propag=
ating them. However for optional attributes as long as their total length i=
s fine I don&#39;t think there is any mandate to syntactically validate any=
 fields *embedded* within them before BGP propagation. They should be rathe=
r opaque to BGP.=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:norm=
al;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;l=
etter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-d=
ecoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:in=
line"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34=
);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacin=
g:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:n=
ormal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-st=
yle:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Otherw=
ise the entire idea of optional transitive would be rather questionable don=
&#39;t you think ?=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none=
;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text=
-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:=
inline"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,=
34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-va=
riant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spac=
ing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space=
:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-=
style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Thx,=
</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-fam=
ily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatu=
res:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;t=
ext-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word=
-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initia=
l;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">R.</span></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans=
-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;fon=
t-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:star=
t;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;b=
ackground-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decorat=
ion-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-inden=
t:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:in=
itial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Jef=
frey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D=
"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span class=3D""><br><div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div>On May 3, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-451347411712604229Apple-interchange-newline"><d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">

<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
2.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:nor=
mal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;=
float:none;display:inline">&gt; If you propagate things you don&#39;t under=
stand (new component), it might be malformed.</span>

<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">It depends how =
you treat new SAFI. If it is opaque to BGP (example: BGP-LS) it shouldn&#39=
;t really matter if you fully understand content of all attributes carried =
with given NLRI.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
>Likewise for flowspec you may observe that BGP carries flow NLRIs + takes =
care of validation but what is described in match and actions are opaque to=
 BGP and only relevant to your data plane (ACL) components.=C2=A0</div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></span>Let me make sure I have th=
is crystal clear correct, Robert:<div><br></div><div>You&#39;re advocating =
&quot;don&#39;t syntactically validate flowspec NLRI&quot;?</div><div><br><=
/div><div>-- Jeff</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 21:11:44 +0530
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To: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>,  "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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Hi Dave and Adam,
  Thanks for the reply.

Lets take the example as I gave earlier.

    A----B----C

A, B and C are 3 routers in different AS's  1, 2 and 3 respectively.
A advertises a route for target X and also a Flowspec route with "redirect
IP(target X)". C receives these routes via B.
Now the the origin AS or first AS in the AS_PATH of the route to target X
is 1 but the peer-AS of Flowspec route is 2

According to Dave,since the peer-AS 2 does not match the origin AS 1 of the
best route for target X,  this redirect IP action will be  considered
invalid for the flowspec route received at C.
This is a typical scenario. Like this, we can't propagate the Flowspec
routes with "redirect IP" action, more than one AS. I think, that's not
expected.

I feel, we should compare origin AS or neighbor-as for both Flowspec route
and the best match route of target X. We should not be using peer-AS for
flowspec route and nbr-as for best match route of target x. Otherwise the
above typical scenarios never work.
Probably, we need to edit the draft for "redirect-ip" action.

Thanks,
Pavana.

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:08 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
wrote:

> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> >I went through the latest draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. It calls
> the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?
>
>
>
> Correct, first AS =3D first AS added =3D last AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-strin=
g =3D
> origin AS.
>
> last AS =3D last AS added =3D first AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-string =3D neig=
hboring
> AS.
> neighbor AS =3D peering AS: if update is coming from EBGP and
> enforce-first-AS used -as mandated by RFC 5575.
>
> Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 uses 'last  AS *added*' in
> most cases, and when it does just use 'last AS', it can be inferred.
>
>
>
> >If that=E2=80=99s the case, the validation will fail for any 'redirect I=
P'
> actions coming from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?
>
>
>
> The RFC 5575 validation procedure required that for EBGP learned flowspec=
s
> the =E2=80=98neighboring AS=E2=80=99 be in the left-most (or last) positi=
on of the AS_PATH
> attribute. Since this is not valid for all topologies,
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 redefines the BGP flowspec validation
> procedures including AS_PATH attribute. Further, the redirect-ip draft
> imposes an additional AS_PATH validation check (specific for redirect-ip
> flowspecs only) to validate that the best matching route to the redirect-=
ip
> 'target address' is a BGP route with origin AS matching the last AS added
> within the AS_PATH attribute of the redirect-ip flowspec. As
>
>
>
> >Also In  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of 'origin
> AS', the word 'last AS' is used. It is confusing.   Does the validation
> need to consider the first AS or last AS?
>
>
>
> See feedback above. Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 only needs to
> consider last AS while redirect-ip draft needs to consider both per above=
.
>
>
>
> >Regarding my second doubt, I could not get any pointers from
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 .  Do we need to consider only BGP
> routes always (for redirect-ip target address)?
>
>
>
> The redirect-ip draft allows for its added validation check to be disable=
d
> via configuration. This allows for a non-BGP route to the redirect-ip
> target address.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:40 AM
> *To:* David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec=
-
> oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>    Thanks for the reply and including respective draft author aliases.
>
>
>
> I went through the latest draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. It calls
> the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?
>
> If that's the case, the validation will fail for any 'redirect IP' action=
s
> coming from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?
>
> Also In  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of 'origin
> AS', the word 'last AS' is used.It is confusing.   Does the validation ne=
ed
> to consider the first AS or last AS?
>
>
>
> Regarding my second doubt, I could not get any pointers from
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 .  Do we need to consider only BGP
> routes always?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 3:37 AM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> Your points are valid. With that said, I=E2=80=99ll defer you to
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05 (and later) and, specifically, section
> 4 (revised validation procedure) which addresses your points below.
>
>
>
> Co-incidentally, a WG last call was issued for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspe=
c-oid-06
> yesterday.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2018 1:51 AM
> *To:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; pmohapat@cumulusnetworks.com; David Smith
> (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Subject:* Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>   In the draft  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02.txt, the following
> procedure is mentioned to validate the extended community of 'Flowspec
>
> redirect to IP'.
>
>
>
>
>
>    BGP speakers that support the extended communities defined in this
>
>    draft MUST also, by default, enforce the following check when
>
>    receiving a flow-spec route from an EBGP peer: if the received flow-
>
>    spec route has a 'redirect to IP' extended community with a 'target
>
>    address' X (in the global administrator field) and the best matching
>
>    route to X is not a BGP route with *origin AS* matching the peer AS
>
>    then the extended community should be discarded and not propagated
>
>    along with the flow-spec route to other peers.
>
>
>
> *I have 2 doubts related to this statement.*
>
>
>
> *What is 'origin AS' here? Is it the AS no. that is first added to the AS=
_PATH? *
> *In the previous version of the draft its mentioned as the last AS in the=
 AS_PATH.*
> *Is it the last AS no. that has been added to the AS_PATH or the last AS =
no. from left in AS_PATH? *
>
>
>
> *What if the redirect target X is directly connected or reachable by a st=
atic route and its not advertised by EBGP?*
>
> *Do we need to consider that action invalid in that case?*
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dave and Adam,<div>=C2=A0 Thanks for the reply.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Lets take the example as I gave earlier.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A----B----C</div><div><br></div>

<div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12=
.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:norm=
al;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t=
ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">=
A, B and C are 3 routers in different AS&#39;s=C2=A0 1, 2 and 3 respectivel=
y.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-var=
iant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-c=
olor:initial">A advertises a route for target X and also a Flowspec route w=
ith &quot;redirect=C2=A0 IP(target X)&quot;. C receives these routes via B.=
</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent=
:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:ini=
tial">Now the the origin AS or first AS in the AS_PATH of the route to targ=
et X is 1 but the peer-AS of Flowspec route is 2=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style=
:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:=
400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:n=
one;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);t=
ext-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div =
style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;=
font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fo=
nt-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,=
255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Accor=
ding to Dave,since the peer-AS 2 does not match the origin AS 1 of the best=
 route for target X,=C2=A0 this redirect IP action will be=C2=A0 considered=
 invalid for the flowspec route received at C.</div><div style=3D"color:rgb=
(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;=
font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;lett=
er-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;whit=
e-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-deco=
ration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">This is a typical scena=
rio. Like this, we can&#39;t propagate the Flowspec routes with &quot;redir=
ect IP&quot; action, more than one AS. I think, that&#39;s not expected.</d=
iv><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size=
:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:n=
ormal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0p=
x;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:=
rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initia=
l"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif=
;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-vari=
ant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;backgro=
und-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-co=
lor:initial">I feel, we should compare origin AS or neighbor-as for both Fl=
owspec route and the best match route of target X. We should not be using p=
eer-AS for flowspec route and nbr-as for best match route of target x. Othe=
rwise the above typical scenarios never work.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none=
;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text=
-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Probably, we need =
to edit the draft for &quot;redirect-ip&quot; action.</div><div style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:=
normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:4=
00;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:no=
ne;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);te=
xt-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;f=
ont-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fon=
t-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tr=
ansform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,2=
55,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Thanks=
,</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-inden=
t:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:in=
itial">Pavana.</div>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May=
 3, 2018 at 11:08 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-6601082142396109718WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D""=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;I went through the latest
<span style=3D"background:white">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. I=
t calls the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Correct,
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif">first AS =3D first AS added =3D last AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-string =
=3D origin AS.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">last AS =3D last AS added =3D first AS in AS_PATH_S=
EQ hex-string =3D neighboring AS.
<br>
neighbor AS =3D peering AS: if update is coming from EBGP and enforce-first=
-AS used -as mandated by RFC 5575.<br>
<br>
Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 uses &#39;last=C2=A0 AS *=
added*&#39; in most cases, and when it does just use &#39;last AS&#39;, it =
can be inferred.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;If that=E2=80=99s the case, th=
e validation will fail for any &#39;redirect IP&#39; actions coming from th=
e AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">The RFC 5575 validation pro=
cedure required that for EBGP learned flowspecs the =E2=80=98neighboring AS=
=E2=80=99 be in the left-most (or last) position of the AS_PATH attribute.
 Since this is not valid for all topologies, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<w=
br>oid-06 redefines the BGP flowspec validation procedures including AS_PAT=
H attribute. Further, the redirect-ip draft imposes an additional AS_PATH v=
alidation check (specific for redirect-ip
 flowspecs only) to validate that the best matching route to the redirect-i=
p &#39;target address&#39; is a BGP route with origin AS matching the last =
AS added within the AS_PATH attribute of the redirect-ip flowspec. As
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;Also In=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ietf-=
idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of &#39;origin AS&#39;, the w=
ord &#39;last AS&#39; is used. It is confusing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Does the valida=
tion need to consider
 the first AS or last AS?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">See feedback above. Draft-ietf-idr=
-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 only needs to consider last AS while redirect-ip =
draft needs to consider both per above.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;Regarding my second doubt, I c=
ould not get any pointers from=C2=A0 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-0=
6=C2=A0.=C2=A0 Do we need to consider only BGP routes always (for redirect-=
ip
 target address)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">The redirect-ip draft allows for i=
ts added validation check to be disabled via configuration. This allows for=
 a non-BGP route to the redirect-ip target address.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pvlrpm@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:40 AM<span class=3D""><br>
<b>To:</b> David Smith (djsmith) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> idr wg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Pradosh Mohapatra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpradosh@=
yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">mpradosh@yahoo.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:=
draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-=
idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-id=
r-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-=
<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for the reply and including resp=
ective draft author aliases.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I went through the latest <span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:w=
hite">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. It calls the first AS the Origin A=
S. Is it so?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">If that&#39;s the ca=
se, the validation will fail for any &#39;redirect IP&#39; actions coming f=
rom the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Also In=C2=A0=C2=A0d=
raft-ietf-idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of &#39;origin AS&#=
39;, the word &#39;last AS&#39; is used.It is confusing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Does t=
he validation
 need to consider the first AS or last AS?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Regarding my second =
doubt, I could not get any pointers from=C2=A0 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-=
<wbr>oid-06=C2=A0.=C2=A0 Do we need to consider only BGP routes always?</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Thanks,</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Pavana.<br>
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 3:37 AM, David Smith (djsmit=
h) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Your points are valid. With that said, I=E2=80=99ll=
 defer you to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-05 (and later) and, spec=
ifically,
 section 4 (revised validation procedure) which addresses your points below=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Co-incidentally, a WG last call was issued for draf=
t-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 yesterday.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pvlrpm@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 13, 2018 1:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr wg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:pmohapat@cumulusnetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">pmohapat@=
cumulusnetworks.com</a>; David Smith (djsmith) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmit=
h@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif">=C2=A0 In the draft=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">draft-ietf-idr-<wbr>flowspec-=
redirect-ip-02.txt,
 the following procedure is mentioned to validate the extended community of=
 &#39;Flowspec
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:black">redirect to IP&#39;.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP speakers that su=
pport the extended communities defined in this</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft MUST also, by default, =
enforce the following check when</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 receiving a flow-spec route f=
rom an EBGP peer: if the received flow-</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 spec route has a &#3=
9;redirect to IP&#39; extended community with a &#39;target</span><u></u><u=
></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 address&#39; X (in the global=
 administrator field) and the best matching</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 route to X is not a BGP route=
 with <b>origin AS</b> matching the peer AS</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 then the extended community s=
hould be discarded and not propagated</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 along with the flow-spec rout=
e to other peers. </span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">I have 2 doubts related to thi=
s statement.</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">What is &#39;origin AS&#39; he=
re? Is it the AS no. that is first added to the AS_PATH? </span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><br><b>In the previous version of the draft its mentio=
ned as the last AS in the AS_PATH.</b><br><b>Is it the last AS no. that has=
 been added to the AS_PATH or the last AS no. from left in AS_PATH? </b></s=
pan><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">What if the redirect target X =
is directly connected or reachable by a static route and its not advertised=
 by EBGP?</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">Do we need to consider that ac=
tion invalid in that case?</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">Pavana.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
To: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
CC: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>, "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 00:38:11 +0000 (UTC)
From: Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>
To: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>,  "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>,  "ju1738@att.com" <ju1738@att.com>,  "John G. Scudder" <jgs@juniper.net>, idr@ietf.org,  draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org,  "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] FW: WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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+1. I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft.
- Pradosh=20

    On Friday, April 27, 2018, 10:29:23 AM PDT, Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <ja=
lcaide@cisco.com> wrote: =20
=20
  =C2=A0I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this draft.
=20
 -J
=20
 On 4/27/2018 6:42 PM, Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil) wrote:
 =20
John,=20
=20
 I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this draft.=20
=20
 Cheers,=20
 Clarence=20
=20
=20
=20

=20
  =20
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<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div><div>+1. I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft.</div><div><br></div><div class="ydp4609edb6signature">- Pradosh</div></div>
            <div><br></div><div><br></div>
            
            <div id="ydp42b12788yahoo_quoted_6024638544" class="ydp42b12788yahoo_quoted">
                <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                    
                    <div>
                        On Friday, April 27, 2018, 10:29:23 AM PDT, Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;jalcaide@cisco.com&gt; wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><div id="ydp42b12788yiv4127001852"><div>
    <div class="ydp42b12788yiv4127001852moz-cite-prefix"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;">&nbsp;I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR
          that applies to this draft.<br clear="none">
          <br clear="none">
          -J<br clear="none">
        </span></font><br clear="none">
      On 4/27/2018 6:42 PM, Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil) wrote:<br clear="none">
    </div>
    <div class="ydp42b12788yiv4127001852yqt6100113336" id="ydp42b12788yiv4127001852yqt95555"><blockquote type="cite">John,
      <br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      I am unaware of any undisclosed IPR that applies to this draft.
      <br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Cheers,
      <br clear="none">
      Clarence
      <br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
    </blockquote></div>
    <p><br clear="none">
    </p>
  </div></div></div>
                </div>
            </div></div></body></html>
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From: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 19:02:18 +0530
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To: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>,  "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/iA6DGpDOh2T3eKp_qUVd6F5cqqM>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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Hi Dave,
  What is the possible reason or explanation for comparing the origin AS of
best match route of target X with the peer-as of the flowspec route instead
of comparing origin AS of both the routes?

Thanks,
Pavana.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:23 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
wrote:

> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> The redirect-ip draft specifies this additional validation step as the
> default behavior, however, it also allows it to be disabled via
> configuration.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 04, 2018 11:42 AM
> *To:* David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org; Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia -
> CA/Ottawa) <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hi Dave and Adam,
>
>   Thanks for the reply.
>
>
>
> Lets take the example as I gave earlier.
>
>
>
>     A----B----C
>
>
>
> A, B and C are 3 routers in different AS's  1, 2 and 3 respectively.
>
> A advertises a route for target X and also a Flowspec route with
> "redirect  IP(target X)". C receives these routes via B.
>
> Now the the origin AS or first AS in the AS_PATH of the route to target X
> is 1 but the peer-AS of Flowspec route is 2
>
>
>
> According to Dave,since the peer-AS 2 does not match the origin AS 1 of
> the best route for target X,  this redirect IP action will be  considered
> invalid for the flowspec route received at C.
>
> This is a typical scenario. Like this, we can't propagate the Flowspec
> routes with "redirect IP" action, more than one AS. I think, that's not
> expected.
>
>
>
> I feel, we should compare origin AS or neighbor-as for both Flowspec rout=
e
> and the best match route of target X. We should not be using peer-AS for
> flowspec route and nbr-as for best match route of target x. Otherwise the
> above typical scenarios never work.
>
> Probably, we need to edit the draft for "redirect-ip" action.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:08 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> >I went through the latest draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. It calls
> the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?
>
>
>
> Correct, first AS =3D first AS added =3D last AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-strin=
g =3D
> origin AS.
>
> last AS =3D last AS added =3D first AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-string =3D neig=
hboring
> AS.
> neighbor AS =3D peering AS: if update is coming from EBGP and
> enforce-first-AS used -as mandated by RFC 5575.
>
> Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 uses 'last  AS *added*' in
> most cases, and when it does just use 'last AS', it can be inferred.
>
>
>
> >If that=E2=80=99s the case, the validation will fail for any 'redirect I=
P'
> actions coming from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?
>
>
>
> The RFC 5575 validation procedure required that for EBGP learned flowspec=
s
> the =E2=80=98neighboring AS=E2=80=99 be in the left-most (or last) positi=
on of the AS_PATH
> attribute. Since this is not valid for all topologies,
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 redefines the BGP flowspec validation
> procedures including AS_PATH attribute. Further, the redirect-ip draft
> imposes an additional AS_PATH validation check (specific for redirect-ip
> flowspecs only) to validate that the best matching route to the redirect-=
ip
> 'target address' is a BGP route with origin AS matching the last AS added
> within the AS_PATH attribute of the redirect-ip flowspec. As
>
>
>
> >Also In  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of 'origin
> AS', the word 'last AS' is used. It is confusing.   Does the validation
> need to consider the first AS or last AS?
>
>
>
> See feedback above. Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 only needs to
> consider last AS while redirect-ip draft needs to consider both per above=
.
>
>
>
> >Regarding my second doubt, I could not get any pointers from
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 .  Do we need to consider only BGP
> routes always (for redirect-ip target address)?
>
>
>
> The redirect-ip draft allows for its added validation check to be disable=
d
> via configuration. This allows for a non-BGP route to the redirect-ip
> target address.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:40 AM
> *To:* David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec=
-
> oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>    Thanks for the reply and including respective draft author aliases.
>
>
>
> I went through the latest draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. It calls
> the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?
>
> If that's the case, the validation will fail for any 'redirect IP' action=
s
> coming from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?
>
> Also In  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of 'origin
> AS', the word 'last AS' is used.It is confusing.   Does the validation ne=
ed
> to consider the first AS or last AS?
>
>
>
> Regarding my second doubt, I could not get any pointers from
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 .  Do we need to consider only BGP
> routes always?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 3:37 AM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> Your points are valid. With that said, I=E2=80=99ll defer you to
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05 (and later) and, specifically, section
> 4 (revised validation procedure) which addresses your points below.
>
>
>
> Co-incidentally, a WG last call was issued for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspe=
c-oid-06
> yesterday.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2018 1:51 AM
> *To:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; pmohapat@cumulusnetworks.com; David Smith
> (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Subject:* Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>   In the draft  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02.txt, the following
> procedure is mentioned to validate the extended community of 'Flowspec
>
> redirect to IP'.
>
>
>
>
>
>    BGP speakers that support the extended communities defined in this
>
>    draft MUST also, by default, enforce the following check when
>
>    receiving a flow-spec route from an EBGP peer: if the received flow-
>
>    spec route has a 'redirect to IP' extended community with a 'target
>
>    address' X (in the global administrator field) and the best matching
>
>    route to X is not a BGP route with *origin AS* matching the peer AS
>
>    then the extended community should be discarded and not propagated
>
>    along with the flow-spec route to other peers.
>
>
>
> *I have 2 doubts related to this statement.*
>
>
>
> *What is 'origin AS' here? Is it the AS no. that is first added to the AS=
_PATH? *
> *In the previous version of the draft its mentioned as the last AS in the=
 AS_PATH.*
> *Is it the last AS no. that has been added to the AS_PATH or the last AS =
no. from left in AS_PATH? *
>
>
>
> *What if the redirect target X is directly connected or reachable by a st=
atic route and its not advertised by EBGP?*
>
> *Do we need to consider that action invalid in that case?*
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dave,<div>=C2=A0 What is the possible reason or explana=
tion for comparing the origin AS of best match route of target X with the p=
eer-as of the flowspec route instead of comparing origin AS of both the rou=
tes?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Pavana.</div></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11=
:23 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmi=
th@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_1112054809847610791WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Pavana,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The redirect-ip draft specifies this =
additional validation step as the default behavior, however, it also allows=
 it to be disabled via configuration.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">/dave
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pvlrpm@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 04, 2018 11:42 AM<span class=3D""><br>
<b>To:</b> David Smith (djsmith) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> idr wg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Pradosh Mohapatra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpradosh@=
yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">mpradosh@yahoo.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:=
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-idr-=
bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a>; Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:adam.1.simpson@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">adam.1.simp=
son@nokia.com</a>&gt;</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action<u></=
u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave and Adam,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 Thanks for the reply.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lets take the example as I gave earlier.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A----B----C<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">A, B and C ar=
e 3 routers in different AS&#39;s=C2=A0 1, 2 and 3 respectively.=C2=A0<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">A advertises =
a route for target X and also a Flowspec route with &quot;redirect=C2=A0 IP=
(target X)&quot;. C receives these routes via B.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">Now the the o=
rigin AS or first AS in the AS_PATH of the route to target X is 1 but the p=
eer-AS of Flowspec route is 2=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">According to =
Dave,since the peer-AS 2 does not match the origin AS 1 of the best route f=
or target X,=C2=A0 this redirect IP action will be=C2=A0 considered
 invalid for the flowspec route received at C.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">This is a typ=
ical scenario. Like this, we can&#39;t propagate the Flowspec routes with &=
quot;redirect IP&quot; action, more than one AS. I think, that&#39;s
 not expected.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">I feel, we sh=
ould compare origin AS or neighbor-as for both Flowspec route and the best =
match route of target X. We should not be using
 peer-AS for flowspec route and nbr-as for best match route of target x. Ot=
herwise the above typical scenarios never work.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">Probably, we =
need to edit the draft for &quot;redirect-ip&quot; action.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">Thanks,<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222">Pavana.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:08 PM, David Smith (djsmit=
h) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;I went through the latest
<span style=3D"background:white">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. I=
t calls the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?=C2=A0</span></span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Correct, first AS =3D first AS added =3D last AS in=
 AS_PATH_SEQ hex-string =3D origin AS.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">last AS =3D last AS added =3D first AS in AS_PATH_S=
EQ hex-string =3D neighboring AS.
<br>
neighbor AS =3D peering AS: if update is coming from EBGP and enforce-first=
-AS used -as mandated by RFC 5575.<br>
<br>
Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 uses &#39;last=C2=A0 AS *=
added*&#39; in most cases, and when it does just use &#39;last AS&#39;, it =
can be inferred.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;If that=E2=80=99s the case, th=
e validation will fail for any &#39;redirect IP&#39; actions coming from th=
e AS other
 than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">The RFC 5575 validation procedure =
required that for EBGP learned flowspecs the =E2=80=98neighboring AS=E2=80=
=99
 be in the left-most (or last) position of the AS_PATH attribute. Since thi=
s is not valid for all topologies, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 =
redefines the BGP flowspec validation procedures including AS_PATH attribut=
e. Further, the redirect-ip draft imposes
 an additional AS_PATH validation check (specific for redirect-ip flowspecs=
 only) to validate that the best matching route to the redirect-ip &#39;tar=
get address&#39; is a BGP route with origin AS matching the last AS added w=
ithin the AS_PATH attribute of the redirect-ip
 flowspec. As </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;Also In=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ietf-=
idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of &#39;origin AS&#39;, the w=
ord &#39;last AS&#39;
 is used. It is confusing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Does the validation need to consider=
 the first AS or last AS?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">See feedback above. Draft-ietf-idr=
-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 only needs to consider last AS while redirect-ip
 draft needs to consider both per above.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;Regarding my second doubt, I c=
ould not get any pointers from=C2=A0 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-0=
6=C2=A0.=C2=A0
 Do we need to consider only BGP routes always (for redirect-ip target addr=
ess)?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">The redirect-ip draft allows for i=
ts added validation check to be disabled via configuration. This
 allows for a non-BGP route to the redirect-ip target address. </span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pvlrpm@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Smith (djsmith) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr wg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Pradosh Mohapatra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpradosh@yahoo.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">mpradosh@yahoo.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for the reply and including resp=
ective draft author aliases.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I went through the latest
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#222222;background:white">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. It calls the first AS the Origin A=
S. Is it so?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">If that&#39;s the ca=
se, the validation will fail for any &#39;redirect IP&#39; actions coming
 from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Also In=C2=A0=C2=A0d=
raft-ietf-idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of &#39;origin AS&#=
39;, the word
 &#39;last AS&#39; is used.It is confusing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Does the validation=
 need to consider the first AS or last AS?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Regarding my second =
doubt, I could not get any pointers from=C2=A0 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-=
<wbr>oid-06=C2=A0.=C2=A0
 Do we need to consider only BGP routes always?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Thanks,</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Pavana.<br>
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 3:37 AM, David Smith (djsmit=
h) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Your points are valid. With that said, I=E2=80=99ll=
 defer you to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-05 (and later) and, spec=
ifically,
 section 4 (revised validation procedure) which addresses your points below=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Co-incidentally, a WG last call was issued for draf=
t-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 yesterday.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pvlrpm@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 13, 2018 1:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr wg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:pmohapat@cumulusnetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">pmohapat@=
cumulusnetworks.com</a>; David Smith (djsmith) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmit=
h@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif">=C2=A0 In the draft=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">draft-ietf-idr-<wbr>flowspec-=
redirect-ip-02.txt,
 the following procedure is mentioned to validate the extended community of=
 &#39;Flowspec
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:black">redirect to IP&#39;.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP speakers that su=
pport the extended communities defined in this</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft MUST also, by default, =
enforce the following check when</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 receiving a flow-spec route f=
rom an EBGP peer: if the received flow-</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 spec route has a &#3=
9;redirect to IP&#39; extended community with a &#39;target</span><u></u><u=
></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 address&#39; X (in the global=
 administrator field) and the best matching</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 route to X is not a BGP route=
 with <b>origin AS</b> matching the peer AS</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 then the extended community s=
hould be discarded and not propagated</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 along with the flow-spec rout=
e to other peers. </span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">I have 2 doubts related to thi=
s statement.</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">What is &#39;origin AS&#39; he=
re? Is it the AS no. that is first added to the AS_PATH? </span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><br><b>In the previous version of the draft its mentio=
ned as the last AS in the AS_PATH.</b><br><b>Is it the last AS no. that has=
 been added to the AS_PATH or the last AS no. from left in AS_PATH? </b></s=
pan><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">What if the redirect target X =
is directly connected or reachable by a static route and its not advertised=
 by EBGP?</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">Do we need to consider that ac=
tion invalid in that case?</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">Pavana.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--00000000000014dbba056b8995e6--


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Acee:=20

=20

I agree with not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid. =20

If it is not working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the =
IESG for publication.   =20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve suggested some text below in the introduction that =
identifies the SRv6 case and=20

Indicates that BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with=20

SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 addresses).

=20

However, there should also be some text in section 6.=20

Section 6 states:

/  When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a
   malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a Labeled
   IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [RFC8277 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277> ], it MUST ignore the received BGP
   Prefix-SID attributes and not advertise it to other BGP peers.  This
   is equivalent to the "Attribute discard" action specified in
   [RFC7606 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606> ].  When discarding an =
attribute, a BGP speaker SHOULD log an
   error for further analysis.

/

=20

In section 4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =
=E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, and=20

=E2=80=9Cconflicting as=E2=80=9D

   If multiple different prefixes are received with the same label
   index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP Prefix-SID
   attribute considered as "conflicting".

=20

You do not define malformed in any section.  Normally, a malformed =
attribute is an attribute that=20

does not abide by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is =
the TLVs within the attribute].

Is this the intent?  If so, you might indicate what malformed is =
someplace in the draft.=20

=20

I do not perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP =
Prefix SID attribute that is associated

with an SRv6 SID.   The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting.=20

Perhaps you could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D.    My =
suggested text below uses that term.=20

IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID attribute being associated with =
SRv6 SID

case needs to be addressed in the error handling section of the draft.=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

Suggested textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not =
supported.=20

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here=E2=80=99s my suggested=20

Change 1:=20

Current/

   As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
   to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
   SID consists of a label. =20
/
Here=E2=80=99s a proposed text that you might add:=20
=20
New/As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
    to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
    SID consists of a label. =20
=20
    [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also=20
    indicates that SR routing can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane=20
    [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] in a new v6 routing header =
with=20
    the SID encoded as an IPv6 address.  The SR segment that uses this =
header=20
    is denoted as an SR SID.=20
/

Change 2:=20

Further down in the paragraph I suggest changing:=20

Old/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute.

/

to=20

/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute when
   SR is applied to the MPLS dataplane. =20
=20
   This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can=20
   associated used with an SRv6 SID.  A BGP Prefix-SID attribute=20
   is considered illegal use of this attribute and=20
   the attribute will be discarded (see section 6 for=20
   for details on error handling ).=20
/
=20

=20


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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree with not =
specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If it is not working, it does not belong in an =
IDR draft going to the IESG for publication. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ve suggested =
some text below in the introduction that identifies the SRv6 case and =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicates that BGP Prefix-SID attribute should =
not be associated with <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 =
addresses).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>However, there should =
also be some text in section 6. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Section 6 =
states:<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0 When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update =
message containing a<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID =
attribute attached to a Labeled<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277" title=3D"&quot;Using BGP to =
Bind MPLS Labels to Address Prefixes&quot;">RFC8277</a>], it MUST ignore =
the received BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Prefix-SID attributes and not =
advertise it to other BGP peers.=C2=A0 =
This<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 is equivalent to the &quot;Attribute =
discard&quot; action specified in<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606" title=3D"&quot;Revised =
Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages&quot;">RFC7606</a>].=C2=A0 When =
discarding an attribute, a BGP speaker SHOULD log =
an<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
error for further analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In section 4.1, you =
identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, and =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9Cconflicting =
as=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 If multiple different prefixes are =
received with the same label<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 index, all of the different prefixes =
MUST have their BGP Prefix-SID<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 attribute considered as =
&quot;conflicting&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You do not define =
malformed in any section. =C2=A0Normally, a malformed attribute is an =
attribute that <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>does not abide by the defined attribute code, =
length, and value (that is the TLVs within the =
attribute].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this the intent?=C2=A0 If so, you might =
indicate what malformed is someplace in the draft. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I do not perceive how =
section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP Prefix SID attribute that =
is associated<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with an SRv6 SID.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The attribute is =
not malformed, invalid, or conflicting. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Perhaps you could call =
it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0My suggested text =
below uses that term. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute being associated with SRv6 SID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>case needs to be =
addressed in the error handling section of the draft. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan Hares =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Suggested textual =
changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not supported. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Here=E2=80=99s my suggested =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Change 1: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Current/<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 As described in [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a>], =
when SR is applied<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 to the MPLS dataplane ([<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a>]), the<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID consists of a label.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Here=E2=80=99s a proposed text that you might add: =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>New/As described in [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a>], =
when SR is applied<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0to the MPLS dataplane ([<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a>]), the<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0SID consists of a label.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0indicates that SR routing =
can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0[I-D.ietf-6man-segment-rout=
ing-header] in a new v6 routing header with =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the SID encoded as an IPv6 =
address.=C2=A0 The SR segment that uses this header =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0is denoted as an SR SID. =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Change =
2: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Further =
down in the paragraph I suggest changing: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document describes the BGP =
extension to signal the BGP Prefix-<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID.=C2=A0 Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known =
as<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>to =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document describes the BGP =
extension to signal the BGP Prefix-<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 SID.=C2=A0 Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known =
as<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute when<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 SR is applied to the MPLS dataplane. =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document does not specify how =
the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0associated used with an SRv6 =
SID.=C2=A0 A BGP Prefix-SID attribute <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0is considered illegal use of =
this attribute and <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the attribute will be discarded =
(see section 6 for <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0for details on error handling ). =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><p =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></htm=
l>
------=_NextPart_000_021B_01D3E6C5.524AB590--


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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: [Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - Manageability section issue
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Acee:

 

The management section does not specify on the SR-Domain is identified in a
bgp peer.  

You indicate in section 8 that: 





   o  Prevent any undesired propagation of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.

      By default the BGP Prefix-SID is not advertised outside the

      boundary of an AS.  The propagation to other ASs MUST be

      explicitly configured.

 

How is this defined?  

 

The draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 describes an SPRING yang model and it 

does not have such an SR-Domain identifier. 

 

Since you state:

 

   The deployment model described in
   [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-06#ref-I-D.ietf-s
pring-segment-routing-msdc> ] assumes multiple Autonomous
   Systems (AS) under a common administration.  The BGP Prefix-SID
   advertisement is therefore applicable to inter-AS context while it is
   confined within a single SR Domain

 

It is important that the management of the multiple ASes 

within this common administration have a way to query a router on whether it
is 

within the same SR Domain. 

 

Perhaps you could just suggest that the SR Domain ID should be defined

in the draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 as a router function. 

Alternatively, it could be also be listed in an SR-BGP augmentation 

to base BGP yang module. 

 

Cheerily, Sue 

 

 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Acee:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
management section does not specify on the SR-Domain is identified in a =
bgp peer.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You indicate in =
section 8 that: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp; Prevent any undesired =
propagation of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; By default the BGP =
Prefix-SID is not advertised outside the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; boundary of an =
AS.&nbsp; The propagation to other ASs MUST be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; explicitly =
configured.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>How is this =
defined?&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 describes an SPRING yang model and it =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>does not have such an SR-Domain =
identifier. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> Since you state:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The deployment model described =
in<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
[<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-06#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-msd=
c</a>] assumes multiple Autonomous<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Systems (AS) under a common =
administration.&nbsp; The BGP =
Prefix-SID<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; advertisement is therefore applicable =
to inter-AS context while it is<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; confined within a single SR =
Domain<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It is =
important that the management of the multiple ASes <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>within this common administration have a way to query =
a router on whether it is <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>within the =
same SR Domain. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Perhaps you =
could just suggest that the SR Domain ID should be =
defined<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>in the =
draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 as a router function. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Alternatively, it could be also be listed in an SR-BGP =
augmentation <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>to base BGP yang =
module. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheerily, Sue <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations
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Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and Arjun:

 

IMHO the security section may need augmenting to 

indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of an SR-Domain identifier. 

 

You state in -19.txt 

 

   The internal

   information includes the BGP Prefix-SID.  In order to prevent such

   leaking, the common BGP mechanisms (filters) are applied at the

   boundary of the SR/administrative domain.  Local BGP attribute

   filtering policies and mechanisms are not standardized and,

   consequently, beyond the scope of this document.

 

In order to have security and manageability you will need to have:

 

1)      Indication of SR domain and boundaries 

2)      Type of forwarding within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)

3)      BGP peer policy that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached

4)      Filter policy for BGP attributes 

 

All of these could be expressed in Yang models and securely passed with 

the multiple AS boundary within an SR/Administrative domain. 

[The administrative domain concept was  defined in RFC 1136].

The yang model described in draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a place

this information could be placed within a SR/Administrative 

domain and passed security via NETCONF or RESTCONF.

Similarly, the BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could 

be used to track the BGP filters.  An augmentation to the BGP yang model 

could support tracking the policy for the BGP Prefix SID attachments. 

 

By referring to the yang modules and the passage of the management

information securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can 

resolve some of the security concerns about passing the policy that controls

BGP Prefix SID (and other BGP drafts relating to SR). 

 

The fact we still need to ratify these Yang models in 

as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the 

OPS/NM and Security ADs can help us push. 

 

Susan Hares 

 

 

 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Acee , =
Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and Arjun:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO the =
security section may need augmenting to <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of an =
SR-Domain identifier. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You state in =
-19.txt <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The internal<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; information includes the BGP =
Prefix-SID.&nbsp; In order to prevent such<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; leaking, the common BGP mechanisms =
(filters) are applied at the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; boundary of the SR/administrative =
domain.&nbsp; Local BGP attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; filtering policies and mechanisms are not =
standardized and,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; consequently, beyond the scope of this =
document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In order to =
have security and manageability you will need to have:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>Indication of SR domain =
and boundaries <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>Type of forwarding within =
domain (SRv6 or MPLS)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>BGP peer policy that =
indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>Filter policy for BGP =
attributes <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>All of these could be expressed in Yang models and =
securely passed with <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>the multiple AS =
boundary within an SR/Administrative domain. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>[The administrative domain concept was &nbsp;defined =
in RFC 1136].<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The yang model described in <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a =
place<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>this information could be placed within a =
SR/Administrative <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>domain and passed security via NETCONF or =
RESTCONF.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Similarly, the BGP yang model =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>be used to track the BGP =
filters. &nbsp;An augmentation to the BGP yang model =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>could support tracking the policy for the BGP =
Prefix SID attachments. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'> By referring to the yang =
modules and the passage of the management<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>information securely over =
TLS, I think the standardized management can <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>resolve some of the =
security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>BGP Prefix SID (and other BGP drafts relating to =
SR). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>The fact we still need to =
ratify these Yang models in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>as RFCs rather than WG =
drafts is something the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>OPS/NM and Security ADs can help us push. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Susan Hares =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0262_01D3E6CC.4018A470--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'Alvaro Retana'" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
Thread-Index: AdPm5thy25lUGFrpRIebflSe3Gl+CQACA0CA
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 17:06:26 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - Manageability section issue
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 18:14:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - Manageability section issue
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations 
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 18:21:35 +0000
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Acee:

=20

Thank you for adding the text.=20

=20

Automation that implements the SR Domain will need the SR identifier to =
determine  the correctly policy to download or check.  Without it, you =
cannot provide the manageability of the filters you suggest via a =
standard.   A person knowing the information does not help the =
automation. =20

=20

I=E2=80=99ll send the suggestion to the authors of the SR Yang MIB and =
the Spring list. =20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 2:15 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - Manageability section issue

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

I will add this text to the introduction:

=20

      The SR domain is defined as the single administrative domain for

      global SID assignment. It may be comprised of a single AS or =
multiple

      ASes under consolidated global SID administration

=20

We=E2=80=99ll discuss the SR YANG model in the Spring WG. However, =
generally an administrator knows what ASes are under their =
administrative domain and another identifier would not be necessary.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:23 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - Manageability section issue

=20

Acee:

=20

The management section does not specify on the SR-Domain is identified =
in a bgp peer. =20

You indicate in section 8 that:=20





   o  Prevent any undesired propagation of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.

      By default the BGP Prefix-SID is not advertised outside the

      boundary of an AS.  The propagation to other ASs MUST be

      explicitly configured.

=20

How is this defined? =20

=20

The draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 describes an SPRING yang model and it=20

does not have such an SR-Domain identifier.=20

=20

Since you state:

=20

   The deployment model described in
   [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-06#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-msdc> ] assumes multiple Autonomous
   Systems (AS) under a common administration.  The BGP Prefix-SID
   advertisement is therefore applicable to inter-AS context while it is
   confined within a single SR Domain

=20

It is important that the management of the multiple ASes=20

within this common administration have a way to query a router on =
whether it is=20

within the same SR Domain.=20

=20

Perhaps you could just suggest that the SR Domain ID should be defined

in the draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 as a router function.=20

Alternatively, it could be also be listed in an SR-BGP augmentation=20

to base BGP yang module.=20

=20

Cheerily, Sue=20

=20

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for adding the =
text. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Automation that =
implements the SR Domain will need the SR identifier to determine =
=C2=A0the correctly policy to download or check. =C2=A0Without it, you =
cannot provide the manageability of the filters you suggest via a =
standard.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A person knowing the information does not help the =
automation.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ll send the =
suggestion to the authors of the SR Yang MIB and the Spring list.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 2:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - Manageability =
section issue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I will add this text =
to the introduction:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The SR domain =
is defined as the single administrative domain =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; global SID =
assignment. It may be comprised of a single AS or =
multiple<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ASes under =
consolidated global SID administration<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>We=E2=80=99ll discuss =
the SR YANG model in the Spring WG. However, generally an administrator =
knows what ASes are under their administrative domain and another =
identifier would not be necessary. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
on behalf of Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:23 PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[Idr] bgp-prefix-sid - =
Manageability section issue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody">Acee:<o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>The management section does not specify on =
the SR-Domain is identified in a bgp peer.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>You indicate in section 8 =
that: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;o&nbsp; Prevent any undesired =
propagation of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; By default the BGP =
Prefix-SID is not advertised outside the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; boundary of an =
AS.&nbsp; The propagation to other ASs MUST be</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; explicitly =
configured.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>How is this defined?&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>The =
draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 describes an SPRING yang model and it =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>does not =
have such an SR-Domain identifier. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Since you state:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
deployment model described in</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
[</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-06#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-msd=
c</a><span style=3D'color:black'>] assumes multiple =
Autonomous</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Systems (AS) under a common =
administration.&nbsp; The BGP Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
advertisement is therefore applicable to inter-AS context while it =
is</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; confined within a single SR =
Domain</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>It is important that the management of the =
multiple ASes <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>within this common administration have a way =
to query a router on whether it is <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>within the same SR Domain. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Perhaps you could just =
suggest that the SR Domain ID should be defined<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>in the =
draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 as a router function. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Alternatively, it could be =
also be listed in an SR-BGP augmentation <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>to base BGP yang module. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Cheerily, Sue <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "'Alvaro Retana'" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Acee:

=20

Thank you for the quick response.  Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 =
(not IPv6).=20

=20

Just to make sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is  SR domain =
is running the SRv6 forwarding. =20

=20

BGP speaking forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)

adds  BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix SID (which only works with a =
MPLS forwarding).=20

What should happen in the attribute processing?=20

=20

The answer to this question could be placed in=20

1)      draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid,=20

2)      draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or=20

3)      draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =20

=20

Do I understand correctly from your that this problem should be =
addressed in the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?=20

=20

If this is your suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers too much.=20

The issues regarding the processing of the BGP attribute need to go to =
IDR.=20

=20

The BGP based Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which =
has dealt

with the EVPN creation.   I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this =
message, and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send=20

just the BGP Attribute processing and material similar to =
draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:06 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal =
of SRv6 case
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:08 PM

=20

Acee:=20

=20

I agree with not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid. =20

If it is not working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the =
IESG for publication.   =20

=20

I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 (as opposed to IPv6) from =
the document. =20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve suggested some text below in the introduction that =
identifies the SRv6 case and=20

Indicates that BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with=20

SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 addresses).

=20

However, there should also be some text in section 6.=20

Section 6 states:

/  When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a
   malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a Labeled
   IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [RFC8277 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277> ], it MUST ignore the received BGP
   Prefix-SID attributes and not advertise it to other BGP peers.  This
   is equivalent to the "Attribute discard" action specified in
   [RFC7606 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606> ].  When discarding an =
attribute, a BGP speaker SHOULD log an
   error for further analysis.

/

=20

In section 4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =
=E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, and=20

=E2=80=9Cconflicting as=E2=80=9D

   If multiple different prefixes are received with the same label
   index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP Prefix-SID
   attribute considered as "conflicting".

=20

You do not define malformed in any section.  Normally, a malformed =
attribute is an attribute that=20

does not abide by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is =
the TLVs within the attribute].

Is this the intent?  If so, you might indicate what malformed is =
someplace in the draft.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to section 6. =20

=20

       In this context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute

      is one that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum length

      requirement or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to the

       length constraints for the TLV or would exceed the attribute =
length.

=20

=20

=20

I do not perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP =
Prefix SID attribute that is associated

with an SRv6 SID.   The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting.=20

Perhaps you could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D.    My =
suggested text below uses that term.=20

IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID attribute being associated with =
SRv6 SID

case needs to be addressed in the error handling section of the draft.=20

=20

Since SRv6 has been removed from the document, there is no need to =
describe error handling behavior (see below).=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

Suggested textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not =
supported.=20

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here=E2=80=99s my suggested=20

Change 1:=20

Current/

   As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
   to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
   SID consists of a label. =20
/
Here=E2=80=99s a proposed text that you might add:=20
=20
New/As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
    to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
    SID consists of a label. =20
=20
    [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also=20
    indicates that SR routing can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane=20
    [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] in a new v6 routing header =
with=20
    the SID encoded as an IPv6 address.  The SR segment that uses this =
header=20
    is denoted as an SR SID.=20
/
=20
Ok. I=E2=80=99d also add:
=20
           The applicability and support for Segment Routing over IPv6 =
is beyond=20
           the scope of this document.=20
=20
Change 2 is then not necessary.=20
=20
Thanks,
Acee=20
=20

Change 2:=20

Further down in the paragraph I suggest changing:=20

Old/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute.

/

to=20

/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute when
   SR is applied to the MPLS dataplane. =20
=20
   This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can=20
   associated used with an SRv6 SID.  A BGP Prefix-SID attribute=20
   is considered illegal use of this attribute and=20
   the attribute will be discarded (see section 6 for=20
   for details on error handling ).=20
/
=20

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for the quick =
response. =C2=A0Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 (not IPv6). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Just to make sure, =
I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is =C2=A0SR domain is running the =
SRv6 forwarding.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BGP speaking forwarding =
BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> adds =C2=A0BGP =
attribute with a valid BGP Prefix SID (which only works with a MPLS =
forwarding). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>What should happen in the attribute processing? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The answer to this =
question could be placed in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Do I understand =
correctly from your that this problem should be addressed in the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If this is your =
suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn =
covers too much. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The issues regarding the processing of the BGP =
attribute need to go to IDR. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The BGP based Ethernet =
VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which has =
dealt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with the EVPN creation.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve =
copied the authors on this message, and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can =
send <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>just the BGP Attribute processing and material =
similar to draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 1:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro =
Retana &lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, John Scudder =
&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of =
SRv6 case<br><b>Resent-From: =
</b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: </b>Stefano Previdi =
&lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, Acee Lindem =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah &lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 12:08 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody"><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: =
</span><o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree with =
not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If it is not =
working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the IESG for =
publication. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I=E2=80=99m glad you =
agree with removing SRv6 (as opposed to IPv6) from the document. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ve =
suggested some text below in the introduction that identifies the SRv6 =
case and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicates that =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 =
addresses).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>However, there =
should also be some text in section 6. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Section 6 states:</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update =
message containing a</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a =
Labeled</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277" title=3D"&quot;Using BGP to =
Bind MPLS Labels to Address Prefixes&quot;">RFC8277</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>], it MUST ignore the received =
BGP</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prefix-SID attributes and not =
advertise it to other BGP peers.&nbsp; This</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
equivalent to the &quot;Attribute discard&quot; action specified =
in</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606" title=3D"&quot;Revised =
Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages&quot;">RFC7606</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>].&nbsp; When discarding an attribute, a BGP =
speaker SHOULD log an</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
error for further analysis.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In section 4.1, =
you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, =
and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9Cconflicting =
as=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; If multiple different prefixes are =
received with the same label</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP =
Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; attribute considered as =
&quot;conflicting&quot;.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You do not =
define malformed in any section. &nbsp;Normally, a malformed attribute =
is an attribute that </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>does not abide =
by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is the TLVs =
within the attribute].</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this the =
intent?&nbsp; If so, you might indicate what malformed is someplace in =
the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 =
I=E2=80=99ll add text to section 6. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In this =
context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is one =
that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum =
length<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;requiremen=
t or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;length =
constraints for the TLV or would exceed the attribute =
length.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I do not =
perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute that is associated</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; &nbsp;The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Perhaps you =
could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;My =
suggested text below uses that term. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute being associated with SRv6 SID</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>case needs to be addressed in the error handling =
section of the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Since SRv6 has been =
removed from the document, there is no need to describe error handling =
behavior (see below). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Suggested =
textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not supported. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Here=E2=80=99s my suggested =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Change 1: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Current/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; As =
described in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; to =
the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID =
consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Here=E2=80=99s a =
proposed text that you might add: </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>New/As described =
in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;to the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SID consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indicates that SR routing =
can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-6man-segment-rout=
ing-header] in a new v6 routing header with </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the SID encoded as an IPv6 =
address.&nbsp; The SR segment that uses this header =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is denoted as an SR SID. =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ok. =
I=E2=80=99d also add:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The applicability and =
support for Segment Routing over IPv6 is beyond =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the scope of this =
document. <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Change 2 =
is then not necessary. <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Acee =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Change =
2: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Further =
down in the paragraph I suggest changing: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>to =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute when</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SR =
is applied to the MPLS dataplane. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;associated used with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; A BGP Prefix-SID attribute </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is considered illegal use of =
this attribute and </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the attribute will be discarded =
(see section 6 for </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for details on error handling ). =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></htm=
l>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'Alvaro Retana'" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, "draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
Thread-Index: AdPm5thy25lUGFrpRIebflSe3Gl+CQACA0CAAA2slID//8DEAA==
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 19:51:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations
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Acee:

=20

I=E2=80=99m not sure why this is out of scope for the security section

since it resolves some of the concerns security people may=20

have about SR-Routing. =20

=20

With standardized Yang models that securely pass information (via TLS)

to configure and validate the configuration of the=20

SR Domain boundaries, BGP peering, BGP filters, and packet

filters,  the IETF has provided secure mechanism to enact SR routing

and detect errors.  These tools reduce the attack surface of SR routing. =


=20

Configuration and monitoring can push/pull or notify over a secure =
channel.

The whole process can undergo automatic tracking and validation.=20

=20

Indicating that  this milieu of management tools reduces risk for=20

 BGP Prefix SID deployment seems to be important restatement of=20

the environment that the IETF OPS and Routing Areas have been=20

working on for the last 5 years.=20

=20

Sue

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 2:22 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Hi Sue,=20

The Security Considerations section in this document are only defined =
for the BGP Prefix-SID mechanism. While you make some valid points, what =
you are describing is clearly beyond the scope and would impact multiple =
existing and possibly new drafts.=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM

=20

Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and Arjun:

=20

IMHO the security section may need augmenting to=20

indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of an SR-Domain identifier.=20

=20

You state in -19.txt=20

=20

   The internal

   information includes the BGP Prefix-SID.  In order to prevent such

   leaking, the common BGP mechanisms (filters) are applied at the

   boundary of the SR/administrative domain.  Local BGP attribute

   filtering policies and mechanisms are not standardized and,

   consequently, beyond the scope of this document.

=20

In order to have security and manageability you will need to have:

=20

1)      Indication of SR domain and boundaries=20

2)      Type of forwarding within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)

3)      BGP peer policy that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached

4)      Filter policy for BGP attributes=20

=20

All of these could be expressed in Yang models and securely passed with=20

the multiple AS boundary within an SR/Administrative domain.=20

[The administrative domain concept was  defined in RFC 1136].

The yang model described in draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a place

this information could be placed within a SR/Administrative=20

domain and passed security via NETCONF or RESTCONF.

Similarly, the BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could=20

be used to track the BGP filters.  An augmentation to the BGP yang model =


could support tracking the policy for the BGP Prefix SID attachments.=20

=20

By referring to the yang modules and the passage of the management

information securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can=20

resolve some of the security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls

BGP Prefix SID (and other BGP drafts relating to SR).=20

=20

The fact we still need to ratify these Yang models in=20

as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the=20

OPS/NM and Security ADs can help us push.=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99m not sure why =
this is out of scope for the security section<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> since it resolves some =
of the concerns security people may <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>have about =
SR-Routing.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>With standardized Yang =
models that securely pass information (via TLS)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>to configure and =
validate the configuration of the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SR Domain boundaries, =
BGP peering, BGP filters, and packet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>filters, =C2=A0the IETF =
has provided secure mechanism to enact SR =
routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and detect errors. =C2=A0These tools reduce the =
attack surface of SR routing. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Configuration and =
monitoring can push/pull or notify over a secure =
channel.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The whole process can undergo automatic tracking =
and validation. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicating that =
=C2=A0this milieu of management tools reduces risk for =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=C2=A0BGP Prefix SID deployment seems to be =
important restatement of <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>the environment that the =
IETF OPS and Routing Areas have been <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>working on for the last =
5 years. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 2:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>The Security =
Considerations section in this document are only defined for the BGP =
Prefix-SID mechanism. While you make some valid points, what you are =
describing is clearly beyond the scope and would impact multiple =
existing and possibly new drafts. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John =
Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 12:59 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody">Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and =
Arjun:<o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>IMHO the security section may need augmenting =
to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of =
an SR-Domain identifier. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>You state in -19.txt <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The internal</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; information includes the BGP =
Prefix-SID.&nbsp; In order to prevent such</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; leaking, the common BGP mechanisms =
(filters) are applied at the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; boundary of the SR/administrative =
domain.&nbsp; Local BGP attribute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; filtering policies and mechanisms are not =
standardized and,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; consequently, beyond the scope of this =
document.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>In order to have security and manageability =
you will need to have:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>1)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Indication of SR =
domain and boundaries <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>2)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Type of forwarding =
within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>3)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>BGP peer policy =
that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>4)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Filter policy for =
BGP attributes <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>All of these could be expressed in Yang =
models and securely passed with <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>the multiple AS boundary within an =
SR/Administrative domain. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>[The administrative domain concept was =
&nbsp;defined in RFC 1136].<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>The yang model described in <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a =
place</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>this information =
could be placed within a SR/Administrative </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>domain and passed security via NETCONF or =
RESTCONF.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Similarly, the =
BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>be used to track the BGP filters. &nbsp;An =
augmentation to the BGP yang model </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>could support tracking the policy for the BGP =
Prefix SID attachments. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>By referring to =
the yang modules and the passage of the =
management</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>information =
securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>resolve some of =
the security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>BGP Prefix SID =
(and other BGP drafts relating to SR). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>The fact we still =
need to ratify these Yang models in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>OPS/NM and =
Security ADs can help us push. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Acee:

=20

draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt covers the NLRI=20

and not the BGP attribute (defined in draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid).=20

=20

Did you mean section 2 of draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?  =20

 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#section-2>=20
2.  SRv6-VPN SID TLV

=20

=20

   The SRv6-VPN SID TLV is defined as another TLV for BGP-Prefix-SID

   Attribute [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#ref-I-D.ietf-idr=
-bgp-prefix-sid> ].

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 3:52 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org; =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:38 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, =
"draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Acee:

=20

Thank you for the quick response.  Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 =
(not IPv6).=20

=20

Just to make sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is  SR domain =
is running the SRv6 forwarding. =20

=20

BGP speaking forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)

adds  BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix SID (which only works with a =
MPLS forwarding).=20

What should happen in the attribute processing?=20

=20

The answer to this question could be placed in=20

1)      draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid,=20

2)      draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or=20

3)      draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =20

=20

Do I understand correctly from your that this problem should be =
addressed in the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?=20

=20

If this is your suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers too much.=20

The issues regarding the processing of the BGP attribute need to go to =
IDR.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 this is described in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.1=
.2

=20

The BGP based Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which =
has dealt

with the EVPN creation.   I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this =
message, and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send=20

just the BGP Attribute processing and material similar to =
draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR.=20

=20

I believe this draft is still evolving. You probably want to wait to =
review the next revision.=20

=20

This is not to say that there will not be other SRv6 BGP use cases in =
the future and I wouldn=E2=80=99t completely rule out future extension =
of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:06 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal =
of SRv6 case
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:08 PM

=20

Acee:=20

=20

I agree with not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid. =20

If it is not working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the =
IESG for publication.   =20

=20

I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 (as opposed to IPv6) from =
the document. =20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve suggested some text below in the introduction that =
identifies the SRv6 case and=20

Indicates that BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with=20

SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 addresses).

=20

However, there should also be some text in section 6.=20

Section 6 states:

/  When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a
   malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a Labeled
   IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [RFC8277 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277> ], it MUST ignore the received BGP
   Prefix-SID attributes and not advertise it to other BGP peers.  This
   is equivalent to the "Attribute discard" action specified in
   [RFC7606 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606> ].  When discarding an =
attribute, a BGP speaker SHOULD log an
   error for further analysis.

/

=20

In section 4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =
=E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, and=20

=E2=80=9Cconflicting as=E2=80=9D

   If multiple different prefixes are received with the same label
   index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP Prefix-SID
   attribute considered as "conflicting".

=20

You do not define malformed in any section.  Normally, a malformed =
attribute is an attribute that=20

does not abide by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is =
the TLVs within the attribute].

Is this the intent?  If so, you might indicate what malformed is =
someplace in the draft.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to section 6. =20

=20

       In this context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute

      is one that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum length

      requirement or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to the

       length constraints for the TLV or would exceed the attribute =
length.

=20

=20

=20

I do not perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP =
Prefix SID attribute that is associated

with an SRv6 SID.   The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting.=20

Perhaps you could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D.    My =
suggested text below uses that term.=20

IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID attribute being associated with =
SRv6 SID

case needs to be addressed in the error handling section of the draft.=20

=20

Since SRv6 has been removed from the document, there is no need to =
describe error handling behavior (see below).=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

Suggested textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not =
supported.=20

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here=E2=80=99s my suggested=20

Change 1:=20

Current/

   As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
   to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
   SID consists of a label. =20
/
Here=E2=80=99s a proposed text that you might add:=20
=20
New/As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
    to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
    SID consists of a label. =20
=20
    [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also=20
    indicates that SR routing can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane=20
    [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] in a new v6 routing header =
with=20
    the SID encoded as an IPv6 address.  The SR segment that uses this =
header=20
    is denoted as an SR SID.=20
/
=20
Ok. I=E2=80=99d also add:
=20
           The applicability and support for Segment Routing over IPv6 =
is beyond=20
           the scope of this document.=20
=20
Change 2 is then not necessary.=20
=20
Thanks,
Acee=20
=20

Change 2:=20

Further down in the paragraph I suggest changing:=20

Old/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute.

/

to=20

/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute when
   SR is applied to the MPLS dataplane. =20
=20
   This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can=20
   associated used with an SRv6 SID.  A BGP Prefix-SID attribute=20
   is considered illegal use of this attribute and=20
   the attribute will be discarded (see section 6 for=20
   for details on error handling ).=20
/
=20

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt covers the =
NLRI <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and not the BGP attribute (defined in =
draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Did you mean section 2 =
of draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?=C2=A0 =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-line-heig=
ht-alt:0pt'><a name=3Dsection-2></a><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#section-2=
"><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;text-decoration:none'><br></span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>2</span></b></a><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>.=C2=A0 =
SRv6-VPN SID TLV<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRv6-VPN SID TLV is defined as =
another TLV for BGP-Prefix-SID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Attribute [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#ref-I-D.i=
etf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid">I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid</a>].<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 3:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org; =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:38 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro Retana =
&lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;, =
&quot;draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for =
the quick response. &nbsp;Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 (not IPv6). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Just to make =
sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is &nbsp;SR domain is =
running the SRv6 forwarding.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BGP speaking =
forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>adds &nbsp;BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix =
SID (which only works with a MPLS forwarding). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>What should happen in the attribute processing? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The answer to =
this question could be placed in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>1)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>2)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>3)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Do I understand =
correctly from your that this problem should be addressed in the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If this is your =
suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn =
covers too much. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The issues =
regarding the processing of the BGP attribute need to go to IDR. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 this is =
described in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#sec=
tion-2.1.2">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03=
#section-2.1.2</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The BGP based =
Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which has =
dealt</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with the EVPN =
creation.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this message, =
and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>just the BGP Attribute processing and material =
similar to draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I believe this draft =
is still evolving. You probably want to wait to review the next =
revision. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>This is not to say =
that there will not be other SRv6 BGP use cases in the future and I =
wouldn=E2=80=99t completely rule out future extension of the BGP =
Prefix-SID attribute. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 1:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro =
Retana &lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, John Scudder =
&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of =
SRv6 case<br><b>Resent-From: =
</b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: </b>Stefano Previdi =
&lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, Acee Lindem =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah &lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 12:08 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody"><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: =
</span><o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree with =
not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If it is not =
working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the IESG for =
publication. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 =
(as opposed to IPv6) from the document. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ve =
suggested some text below in the introduction that identifies the SRv6 =
case and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicates that =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SRv6 SIDs =
(IPv6 addresses).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>However, there =
should also be some text in section 6. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Section 6 states:</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update =
message containing a</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a =
Labeled</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277" title=3D"&quot;Using BGP to =
Bind MPLS Labels to Address Prefixes&quot;">RFC8277</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>], it MUST ignore the received =
BGP</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prefix-SID attributes and not =
advertise it to other BGP peers.&nbsp; This</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
equivalent to the &quot;Attribute discard&quot; action specified =
in</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606" title=3D"&quot;Revised =
Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages&quot;">RFC7606</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>].&nbsp; When discarding an attribute, a BGP =
speaker SHOULD log an</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
error for further analysis.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In section =
4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =E2=80=9CLabel-Index =
TLV, and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9Cconflicting =
as=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; If multiple different prefixes are =
received with the same label</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP =
Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; attribute considered as =
&quot;conflicting&quot;.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You do not =
define malformed in any section. &nbsp;Normally, a malformed attribute =
is an attribute that </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>does not abide =
by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is the TLVs =
within the attribute].</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this the =
intent?&nbsp; If so, you might indicate what malformed is someplace in =
the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to =
section 6. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In this =
context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is one =
that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum =
length</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;requiremen=
t or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;length constraints for the TLV or would =
exceed the attribute length.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I do not =
perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute that is associated</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; &nbsp;The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Perhaps you =
could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;My =
suggested text below uses that term. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute being associated with SRv6 SID</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>case needs to be addressed in the error handling =
section of the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Since SRv6 has been removed from the =
document, there is no need to describe error handling behavior (see =
below). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Suggested =
textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not supported. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Here=E2=80=99s my suggested =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Change 1: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Current/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; As =
described in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; to =
the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID =
consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Here=E2=80=99s a =
proposed text that you might add: </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>New/As described =
in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;to the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SID consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indicates that SR routing =
can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-6man-segment-rout=
ing-header] in a new v6 routing header with </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the SID encoded as an IPv6 =
address.&nbsp; The SR segment that uses this header =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is denoted as an SR SID. =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ok. =
I=E2=80=99d also add:</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The applicability and =
support for Segment Routing over IPv6 is beyond =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the scope of this =
document. </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Change 2 =
is then not necessary. </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Acee =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Change =
2: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Further =
down in the paragraph I suggest changing: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>to =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute when</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SR =
is applied to the MPLS dataplane. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;associated used with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; A BGP Prefix-SID attribute </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is considered illegal use of =
this attribute and </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the attribute will be discarded =
(see section 6 for </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for details on error handling ). =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></htm=
l>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'Alvaro Retana'" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, "draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 20:06:43 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Acee:=20

=20

This is important fact to know.  You had mentioned in person, but this=20

point  not evident in the set of drafts I had.   I=E2=80=99ll switch =
that set of=20

questions over to a different thread.=20

=20

Sue=20

                                                       =20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 4:07 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text =
clarifying removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:01 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, =
"draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Acee:

=20

draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt covers the NLRI=20

and not the BGP attribute (defined in draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid).=20

=20

Right =E2=80=93 for the initial use cases, the BGP-LS AF will be used to =
advertise the SRv6 SID corresponding to a unicast prefix.=20

=20

Did you mean section 2 of draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?  =20

 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#section-2>=20
2.  SRv6-VPN SID TLV

=20

=20

   The SRv6-VPN SID TLV is defined as another TLV for BGP-Prefix-SID

   Attribute [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#ref-I-D.ietf-idr=
-bgp-prefix-sid> ].

=20

This is another use case for SRv6 and VPN prefixes. You won=E2=80=99t =
find the exact use case that was previously in the BGP Prefix-SID draft. =
As discussed, it didn=E2=80=99t satisfy any use cases and wasn=E2=80=99t =
ever implemented.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 3:52 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org; =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:38 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, =
"draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Acee:

=20

Thank you for the quick response.  Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 =
(not IPv6).=20

=20

Just to make sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is  SR domain =
is running the SRv6 forwarding. =20

=20

BGP speaking forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)

adds  BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix SID (which only works with a =
MPLS forwarding).=20

What should happen in the attribute processing?=20

=20

The answer to this question could be placed in=20

1)      draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid,=20

2)      draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or=20

3)      draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =20

=20

Do I understand correctly from your that this problem should be =
addressed in the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?=20

=20

If this is your suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers too much.=20

The issues regarding the processing of the BGP attribute need to go to =
IDR.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 this is described in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.1=
.2

=20

The BGP based Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which =
has dealt

with the EVPN creation.   I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this =
message, and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send=20

just the BGP Attribute processing and material similar to =
draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR.=20

=20

I believe this draft is still evolving. You probably want to wait to =
review the next revision.=20

=20

This is not to say that there will not be other SRv6 BGP use cases in =
the future and I wouldn=E2=80=99t completely rule out future extension =
of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:06 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder =
<jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal =
of SRv6 case
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:08 PM

=20

Acee:=20

=20

I agree with not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid. =20

If it is not working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the =
IESG for publication.   =20

=20

I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 (as opposed to IPv6) from =
the document. =20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve suggested some text below in the introduction that =
identifies the SRv6 case and=20

Indicates that BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with=20

SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 addresses).

=20

However, there should also be some text in section 6.=20

Section 6 states:

/  When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a
   malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a Labeled
   IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [RFC8277 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277> ], it MUST ignore the received BGP
   Prefix-SID attributes and not advertise it to other BGP peers.  This
   is equivalent to the "Attribute discard" action specified in
   [RFC7606 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606> ].  When discarding an =
attribute, a BGP speaker SHOULD log an
   error for further analysis.

/

=20

In section 4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =
=E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, and=20

=E2=80=9Cconflicting as=E2=80=9D

   If multiple different prefixes are received with the same label
   index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP Prefix-SID
   attribute considered as "conflicting".

=20

You do not define malformed in any section.  Normally, a malformed =
attribute is an attribute that=20

does not abide by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is =
the TLVs within the attribute].

Is this the intent?  If so, you might indicate what malformed is =
someplace in the draft.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to section 6. =20

=20

       In this context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute

      is one that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum length

      requirement or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to the

       length constraints for the TLV or would exceed the attribute =
length.

=20

=20

=20

I do not perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP =
Prefix SID attribute that is associated

with an SRv6 SID.   The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting.=20

Perhaps you could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D.    My =
suggested text below uses that term.=20

IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID attribute being associated with =
SRv6 SID

case needs to be addressed in the error handling section of the draft.=20

=20

Since SRv6 has been removed from the document, there is no need to =
describe error handling behavior (see below).=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

Suggested textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not =
supported.=20

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here=E2=80=99s my suggested=20

Change 1:=20

Current/

   As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
   to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
   SID consists of a label. =20
/
Here=E2=80=99s a proposed text that you might add:=20
=20
New/As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
    to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
    SID consists of a label. =20
=20
    [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also=20
    indicates that SR routing can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane=20
    [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] in a new v6 routing header =
with=20
    the SID encoded as an IPv6 address.  The SR segment that uses this =
header=20
    is denoted as an SR SID.=20
/
=20
Ok. I=E2=80=99d also add:
=20
           The applicability and support for Segment Routing over IPv6 =
is beyond=20
           the scope of this document.=20
=20
Change 2 is then not necessary.=20
=20
Thanks,
Acee=20
=20

Change 2:=20

Further down in the paragraph I suggest changing:=20

Old/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute.

/

to=20

/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute when
   SR is applied to the MPLS dataplane. =20
=20
   This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can=20
   associated used with an SRv6 SID.  A BGP Prefix-SID attribute=20
   is considered illegal use of this attribute and=20
   the attribute will be discarded (see section 6 for=20
   for details on error handling ).=20
/
=20

=20


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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This is important fact =
to know. =C2=A0You had mentioned in person, but this =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>point =C2=A0not evident in the set of drafts I =
had. =C2=A0=C2=A0I=E2=80=99ll switch that set of =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>questions over to a different thread. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 8, 2018 4:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:01 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro Retana =
&lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;, =
&quot;draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt covers the =
NLRI </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and not the BGP =
attribute (defined in draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Right =E2=80=93 for =
the initial use cases, the BGP-LS AF will be used to advertise the SRv6 =
SID corresponding to a unicast prefix. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Did you mean =
section 2 of draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in;mso-line-height-alt:0pt'><a name=3Dsection-2></a><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#section-2=
"><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;text-decoration:none'><br></span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>2</span></b></a><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>.&nbsp; =
SRv6-VPN SID TLV</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The SRv6-VPN SID TLV is defined as =
another TLV for BGP-Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Attribute [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#ref-I-D.i=
etf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid">I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid</a>].</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>This is another use =
case for SRv6 and VPN prefixes. You won=E2=80=99t find the exact use =
case that was previously in the BGP Prefix-SID draft. As discussed, it =
didn=E2=80=99t satisfy any use cases and wasn=E2=80=99t ever =
implemented. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Sue =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 3:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org; =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:38 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro Retana =
&lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;, =
&quot;draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for =
the quick response. &nbsp;Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 (not IPv6). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Just to make =
sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is &nbsp;SR domain is =
running the SRv6 forwarding.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BGP speaking =
forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>adds &nbsp;BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix =
SID (which only works with a MPLS forwarding). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>What should happen in the attribute processing? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The answer to =
this question could be placed in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>1)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>2)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>3)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Do I =
understand correctly from your that this problem should be addressed in =
the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If this is =
your suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers too much. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The issues regarding the processing of the BGP =
attribute need to go to IDR. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 this is described in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#sec=
tion-2.1.2">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03=
#section-2.1.2</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The BGP based =
Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which has =
dealt</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with the EVPN =
creation.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this message, =
and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>just the BGP Attribute processing and material =
similar to draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I believe this draft is still evolving. You =
probably want to wait to review the next revision. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>This is not to say that there will not be =
other SRv6 BGP use cases in the future and I wouldn=E2=80=99t completely =
rule out future extension of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 1:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro =
Retana &lt;aretana.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, John Scudder =
&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of =
SRv6 case<br><b>Resent-From: =
</b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: </b>Stefano Previdi =
&lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, Acee Lindem =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah &lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 12:08 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody"><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: =
</span><o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree with =
not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If it is not =
working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the IESG for =
publication. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 =
(as opposed to IPv6) from the document. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ve =
suggested some text below in the introduction that identifies the SRv6 =
case and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicates that =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SRv6 SIDs =
(IPv6 addresses).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>However, there =
should also be some text in section 6. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Section 6 states:</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update =
message containing a</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a =
Labeled</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277" title=3D"&quot;Using BGP to =
Bind MPLS Labels to Address Prefixes&quot;">RFC8277</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>], it MUST ignore the received =
BGP</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prefix-SID attributes and not =
advertise it to other BGP peers.&nbsp; This</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
equivalent to the &quot;Attribute discard&quot; action specified =
in</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606" title=3D"&quot;Revised =
Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages&quot;">RFC7606</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>].&nbsp; When discarding an attribute, a BGP =
speaker SHOULD log an</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
error for further analysis.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In section =
4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =E2=80=9CLabel-Index =
TLV, and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9Cconflicting =
as=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; If multiple different prefixes are =
received with the same label</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP =
Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; attribute considered as =
&quot;conflicting&quot;.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You do not =
define malformed in any section. &nbsp;Normally, a malformed attribute =
is an attribute that </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>does not abide =
by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is the TLVs =
within the attribute].</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this the =
intent?&nbsp; If so, you might indicate what malformed is someplace in =
the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to =
section 6. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In this =
context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is one =
that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum =
length</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;requiremen=
t or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;length constraints for the TLV or would =
exceed the attribute length.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I do not =
perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute that is associated</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; &nbsp;The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Perhaps you =
could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;My =
suggested text below uses that term. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute being associated with SRv6 SID</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>case needs to be addressed in the error handling =
section of the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Since SRv6 has been removed from the =
document, there is no need to describe error handling behavior (see =
below). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Suggested =
textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not supported. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Here=E2=80=99s my suggested =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Change 1: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Current/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; As =
described in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; to =
the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID =
consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Here=E2=80=99s a =
proposed text that you might add: </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>New/As described =
in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;to the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SID consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indicates that SR routing =
can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-6man-segment-rout=
ing-header] in a new v6 routing header with </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the SID encoded as an IPv6 =
address.&nbsp; The SR segment that uses this header =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is denoted as an SR SID. =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ok. =
I=E2=80=99d also add:</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The applicability and =
support for Segment Routing over IPv6 is beyond =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the scope of this =
document. </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Change 2 =
is then not necessary. </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Acee =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Change =
2: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Further =
down in the paragraph I suggest changing: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>to =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute when</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SR =
is applied to the MPLS dataplane. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;associated used with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; A BGP Prefix-SID attribute </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is considered illegal use of =
this attribute and </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the attribute will be discarded =
(see section 6 for </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for details on error handling ). =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p =
style=3D'margin-left:3.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></htm=
l>
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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations
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Acee:

=20

You are right that the security people have seen this draft before.

If they did not feel it was necessary to add that point

at that time,  perhaps they feel the OPS/NM milieu =20

of NETCONF and Yang models is common knowledge.=20

=20

Leaving it out seems the best policy for this next round at the IESG.

=20

Will you be creating another version soon with the changes?=20

I we=E2=80=99ve resolve my comments with those changes, and it should go =
back=20

to Alvaro=E2=80=99s AD review for this version.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 4:13 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:53 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:53 PM

=20

Acee:

=20

I=E2=80=99m not sure why this is out of scope for the security section

since it resolves some of the concerns security people may=20

have about SR-Routing. =20

=20

Again, the BGP Prefix-SID =E2=80=9CSecurity Considerations=E2=80=9D =
section discusses security issues relative to this mechanism. It is NOT =
the place to specify your proposal for a segment routing security =
framework. Note that this has already been through the IESG once so it =
is has already been subjected to the concerns of security people.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

=20

With standardized Yang models that securely pass information (via TLS)

to configure and validate the configuration of the=20

SR Domain boundaries, BGP peering, BGP filters, and packet

filters,  the IETF has provided secure mechanism to enact SR routing

and detect errors.  These tools reduce the attack surface of SR routing. =


=20

Configuration and monitoring can push/pull or notify over a secure =
channel.

The whole process can undergo automatic tracking and validation.=20

=20

Indicating that  this milieu of management tools reduces risk for=20

 BGP Prefix SID deployment seems to be important restatement of=20

the environment that the IETF OPS and Routing Areas have been=20

working on for the last 5 years.=20

=20

Sue

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 2:22 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Hi Sue,=20

The Security Considerations section in this document are only defined =
for the BGP Prefix-SID mechanism. While you make some valid points, what =
you are describing is clearly beyond the scope and would impact multiple =
existing and possibly new drafts.=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM

=20

Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and Arjun:

=20

IMHO the security section may need augmenting to=20

indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of an SR-Domain identifier.=20

=20

You state in -19.txt=20

=20

   The internal

   information includes the BGP Prefix-SID.  In order to prevent such

   leaking, the common BGP mechanisms (filters) are applied at the

   boundary of the SR/administrative domain.  Local BGP attribute

   filtering policies and mechanisms are not standardized and,

   consequently, beyond the scope of this document.

=20

In order to have security and manageability you will need to have:

=20

1)      Indication of SR domain and boundaries=20

2)      Type of forwarding within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)

3)      BGP peer policy that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached

4)      Filter policy for BGP attributes=20

=20

All of these could be expressed in Yang models and securely passed with=20

the multiple AS boundary within an SR/Administrative domain.=20

[The administrative domain concept was  defined in RFC 1136].

The yang model described in draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a place

this information could be placed within a SR/Administrative=20

domain and passed security via NETCONF or RESTCONF.

Similarly, the BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could=20

be used to track the BGP filters.  An augmentation to the BGP yang model =


could support tracking the policy for the BGP Prefix SID attachments.=20

=20

By referring to the yang modules and the passage of the management

information securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can=20

resolve some of the security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls

BGP Prefix SID (and other BGP drafts relating to SR).=20

=20

The fact we still need to ratify these Yang models in=20

as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the=20

OPS/NM and Security ADs can help us push.=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20


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class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If they did not feel it =
was necessary to add that point<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> at that time,=C2=A0 =
perhaps they feel the OPS/NM milieu =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>of NETCONF and Yang =
models is common knowledge. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Leaving it out seems the =
best policy for this next round at the IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Will you be creating =
another version soon with the changes? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I we=E2=80=99ve resolve =
my comments with those changes, and it should go back =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>to Alvaro=E2=80=99s AD review for this version. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 4:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:53 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 3:53 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99m not =
sure why this is out of scope for the security =
section</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>since it =
resolves some of the concerns security people may =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>have about =
SR-Routing.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Again, the BGP =
Prefix-SID =E2=80=9CSecurity Considerations=E2=80=9D section discusses =
security issues relative to this mechanism. It is NOT the place to =
specify your proposal for a segment routing security framework. Note =
that this has already been through the IESG once so it is has already =
been subjected to the concerns of security people. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>With =
standardized Yang models that securely pass information (via =
TLS)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>to configure =
and validate the configuration of the </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SR Domain boundaries, BGP peering, BGP filters, =
and packet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>filters, =
&nbsp;the IETF has provided secure mechanism to enact SR =
routing</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and detect =
errors. &nbsp;These tools reduce the attack surface of SR routing. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Configuration =
and monitoring can push/pull or notify over a secure =
channel.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The whole =
process can undergo automatic tracking and validation. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicating that =
&nbsp;this milieu of management tools reduces risk for =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;BGP =
Prefix SID deployment seems to be important restatement of =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>the environment =
that the IETF OPS and Routing Areas have been </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>working on for the last 5 years. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 2:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>The Security =
Considerations section in this document are only defined for the BGP =
Prefix-SID mechanism. While you make some valid points, what you are =
describing is clearly beyond the scope and would impact multiple =
existing and possibly new drafts. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John =
Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 12:59 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody">Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and =
Arjun:<o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>IMHO the security section may need =
augmenting to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of =
an SR-Domain identifier. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>You state in -19.txt <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The internal</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; information includes the BGP =
Prefix-SID.&nbsp; In order to prevent such</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; leaking, the common BGP mechanisms =
(filters) are applied at the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; boundary of the SR/administrative =
domain.&nbsp; Local BGP attribute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; filtering policies and mechanisms are not =
standardized and,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; consequently, beyond the scope of this =
document.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>In order to have security and manageability =
you will need to have:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>1)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Indication of SR =
domain and boundaries <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>2)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Type of forwarding =
within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>3)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>BGP peer policy =
that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>4)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Filter policy for =
BGP attributes <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>All of these could be expressed in Yang =
models and securely passed with <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>the multiple AS boundary within an =
SR/Administrative domain. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>[The administrative domain concept was =
&nbsp;defined in RFC 1136].<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>The yang model described in <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a =
place</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>this information =
could be placed within a SR/Administrative </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>domain and passed security via NETCONF or =
RESTCONF.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Similarly, the =
BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>be used to track the BGP filters. &nbsp;An =
augmentation to the BGP yang model </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>could support tracking the policy for the BGP =
Prefix SID attachments. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>By referring to =
the yang modules and the passage of the =
management</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>information =
securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>resolve some of =
the security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>BGP Prefix SID =
(and other BGP drafts relating to SR). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>The fact we =
still need to ratify these Yang models in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>OPS/NM and =
Security ADs can help us push. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations 
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 21:23:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations
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This is a shepherd review of your draft after WG LC.   

 Please treat these as a WG LC call comment. 

 

Cheerily Sue Hares 

 

=============

 

Overview:  The draft is an addition to the BGP-LS feature 

set that is a natural outgrowth of existing work

in the LSR working (OSPF and ISIS).  

 

Status: Major issue - no error handling section

Minor issues: manageability and security section. 

 

A)     Error handling comments 

 

RFC 7606 indicates different types of error procedures for

NRLIs and attributes.  Page 9-10 indicates that typed NLRIs

need to provide the details on what constitutes valid NLRIs. 

 

Normally, an error handling section within a NLRI 

indicates what is considered a malformed NLRI  (syntax error) 

or an invalid NLRI (content error). 

 

RFC7752 provides a list of questions to determine if the message is 

Malformed in section 6.6.2 (Fault management). 

Your draft as an augment to RFC7752 should provide 

error handling information regarding malformed TLVs (faults) 

and invalid content.   

----

For Malformed TLVs,  you have two open issues: 

 

1.       Reserved fields of the Flag field 

Please specify what value the flag field's reserve values can take.  

If you wish to have it transmitted as zero, and

Receiver should ignore.  Please specify this point. 

 

2.       Define what makes a malformed TLV

You can do this within the text of figure 6 or 

In the paragraphs at the top of page 7. 

Do you consider inclusion of the Node Admin Tag TLV

to be malformed if it is associated with something 

beside a Node Attribute? 

 

IHMO - it seems like an invalid content, but 

It could be viewed either way. 

-------

For invalid content, you have specify invalid content 

in the 3 paragraphs at the top of page 7 in section 3.1.

The text in section 4 indicates how the text should be 

how the tag should be properly processed. 

 

The text in section 3.1 seems to indicate what content 

(origination and reception) is invalid.  However, you do not 

Indicate what you do with invalid Node Admin Tags. 

 

The choices could be: 

1)      the entire Link State NLRI to be considered is invalid, 

2)      the Node NLRI within the Link State NLRI is invalid 

3)      the local node or remote node descriptors, the TLV is contained are
all invalid

4)      just the Administrative Tag Sub-TLV is valid 

 

It is unclear from your document how this error is handled. 

-----------

 

Section 4, indicates the processing of the 

content of a well-formed Sub-TLV with 

correct syntax.  If you feel error handling needs to 

report any handling of the SHOULD, MAY or MUST NOT clauses, 

you should add this to the error process. 

 

Section 5, indicates deployment processing. 

Again, if you feel error handling needs to 

Report any handling of the SHOULD or MAY clauses,

Add this to the error reporting. 

 

IMHO - I do not feel section 4 or 5 warrants specific 

protocol on the wire specification error reporting. 

I am fine with the text as it is .

--------------

 

Lesser issues: 

 

Section 6 Manageability 

 

Comment: Operational procedures are changing because you 

are re-originating "global" scope node tags in another "node admin

tag" TLV.   You break > 16383 node administrative groups down

into multiple tags.  

 

This added process does not simply copy information from 

ISIS or OSPF as it exists.  Manageability would indicate some 

logging of these additional changes will or will not occur. 

---

 

Section 7 - Security considerations

 

Since the tagging of nodes may cause avoidance of a set of 

Nodes ( per section 5), the security section needs to include

Information on why this cannot be done to harm 

 

Editorial NITs: 

Acknowledgements - need to be changed from TBA. 

 

 

 

 


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>This is a =
shepherd review of your draft after WG LC. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;Please treat these as a WG LC call comment. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheerily Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>Overview:</b>&nbsp; The draft is an addition to the =
BGP-LS feature <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>set that is a natural =
outgrowth of existing work<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>in the LSR =
working (OSPF and ISIS).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>Status:</b> Major issue &#8211; no error handling =
section<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Minor issues: manageability =
and security section. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l8 level1 =
lfo9'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>A)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>Error handling comments =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>RFC 7606 indicates different types of error procedures =
for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>NRLIs and attributes.&nbsp; Page =
9-10 indicates that typed NLRIs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>need =
to provide the details on what constitutes valid NLRIs. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Normally, an error handling section within a NLRI =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>indicates what is considered a =
malformed NLRI &nbsp;(syntax error) <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>or an invalid NLRI (content error). <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>RFC7752 =
provides a list of questions to determine if the message is =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Malformed in section 6.6.2 (Fault =
management). <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Your draft as an =
augment to RFC7752 should provide <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>error handling information regarding malformed TLVs =
(faults) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>and invalid content. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>----<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>For Malformed TLVs</b>, &nbsp;you have two open =
issues: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>Reserved fields of the =
Flag field <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Please specify what value =
the flag field&#8217;s reserve values can take.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>If you wish to have it transmitted as zero, =
and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Receiver should ignore.&nbsp; =
Please specify this point. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>Define what makes a =
malformed TLV<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You can do this within =
the text of figure 6 or <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In the =
paragraphs at the top of page 7. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Do =
you consider inclusion of the Node Admin Tag TLV<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>to be malformed if it is associated with something =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>beside a Node Attribute? =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>IHMO &#8211; it seems like an invalid content, but =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It could be viewed either way. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-------<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>For invalid content</b>, you have specify invalid =
content <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>in the 3 paragraphs at the =
top of page 7 in section 3.1.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
text in section 4 indicates how the text should be <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>how the tag should be properly processed. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The text in section 3.1 seems to indicate what content =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>(origination and reception) is =
invalid.&nbsp; However, you do not <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Indicate what you do with invalid Node Admin Tags. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The choices could be: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo8'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>the entire Link State =
NLRI to be considered is invalid, <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo8'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>the Node NLRI within the =
Link State NLRI is invalid <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>the local node or remote =
node descriptors, the TLV is contained are all invalid<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo8'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span>just the Administrative =
Tag Sub-TLV is valid <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It is =
unclear from your document how this error is handled. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----------<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Section =
4, indicates the processing</b> of the <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>content of a well-formed Sub-TLV with =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>correct syntax.&nbsp; If you feel =
error handling needs to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>report any =
handling of the SHOULD, MAY or MUST NOT clauses, <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>you should add this to the error process. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Section 5, indicates deployment processing. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Again, if you feel error handling =
needs to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Report any handling of the =
SHOULD or MAY clauses,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Add this to =
the error reporting. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>IMHO &#8211; =
I do not feel section 4 or 5 warrants specific <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>protocol on the wire specification error reporting. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I am fine with the text as it is =
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>--------------<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Lesser =
issues: <o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Section 6 Manageability <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Comment: =
Operational procedures are changing because you <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>are re-originating &#8220;global&#8221; scope node =
tags in another &#8220;node admin<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>tag&#8221; TLV. &nbsp;&nbsp;You break &gt; 16383 node =
administrative groups down<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>into =
multiple tags.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This added =
process does not simply copy information from <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>ISIS or OSPF as it exists.&nbsp; Manageability would =
indicate some <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>logging of these =
additional changes will or will not occur. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>---<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Section 7 =
&#8211; Security considerations<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Since the =
tagging of nodes may cause avoidance of a set of <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Nodes ( per section 5), the security section needs to =
include<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Information on why this =
cannot be done to harm <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Editorial =
NITs: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Acknowledgements &#8211; need =
to be changed from TBA. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0391_01D3E6F5.42AF7F50--


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-20.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing Prefix SID extensions for BGP
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Acee Lindem
                          Arjun Sreekantiah
                          Hannes Gredler
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-20.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2018-05-08

Abstract:
   The Segment Routing (SR) architecture allows a node to steer a packet
   flow through any topological path and service chain by leveraging
   source routing.  The ingress node prepends an SR header to a packet
   containing a set of segment identifiers (SID).  Each SID represents a
   topological or a service-based instruction.  Per-flow state is
   maintained only on the ingress node of the SR domain.  Ah SR domain
   is defined as a single administrative domain for global SID
   assignment.

   This document defines an optional, transitive BGP attribute for
   announcing BGP Prefix Segment Identifiers (BGP Prefix-SID)
   information.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-20
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-20

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations 
Thread-Index: AQDgFINvAFjO+VdbbiOFg5NtltkEBAGduhR0pgDxl9CAAAlpgIAARdCA///N0wCAAApVgA==
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 21:59:59 +0000
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From: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
To: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
CC: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>, "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 22:10:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 03:07:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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From nobody Tue May  8 23:45:44 2018
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From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>
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Reviewer: Joel Jaeggli
Review result: Has Nits

I have performed a requested early review on the behalf of the operations
directorate of the current draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06.
Generally I think this document is good, I won't say ready, as this review is
intended as an early review not a final one.

Some nits

1-
introduction

   This way, all BGP speakers (specifically the route-reflectors) obtain
   Link-State information from all IGP areas (and from other ASes from
   EBGP peers).

* BGP speakers are agnostic about the source of the information beyond that it
was exported with certain properties from the rib of itâ€™s neighbor.

2 -
   An external component (e.g., a controller) then can
   collect SR information in the "northbound" direction across IGP areas
   or ASes and construct the end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs)
   that need to be applied to an incoming packet to achieve the desired
   end-to-end forwarding.

* Unqualified use of the term northbound I find generally problematic,
particularly in the case of a route reflector. Previously RFC 7752 manged to
use the term in the title and then never again within the text.

3-

2.3.3.  Source Router Identifier (Source Router-ID) TLV

   The Source Router-ID TLV contains the IPv4 or IPv6 Router-ID of the
   originator of the Prefix.  For IS-IS protocol this is as defined in
   [RFC7794].  The Source Router-ID TLV may be used to carry the OSPF
   Router-ID of the prefix originator.

   The Source Router-ID TLV has the following format:

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |            Type               |            Length             |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   //                  IPv4/IPv6 Address (Router-ID)              //
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   where:

      Type: TBD, see Section 4.

      Length: 4 or 16.

      IPv4/IPv6 Address: 4 octet IPv4 address or 16 octet IPv6 address.

   The semantic of the Source Router-ID TLV is defined in [RFC7794].

* While RFC7794 Router-IDs are in fact IP addresses. OSPF Router-IDs are not
even if they happen to look like them, this is particularly germain with ospfv3
but itâ€™s worth making the distinction.

4 -
5.1.1.  Operations

   Existing BGP and BGP-LS operational procedures apply.  No additional
   operation procedures are defined in this document.

* An informative or normative reference (probably to 7752 especially fault
mangement) is probably required.


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Opsdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06
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From nobody Wed May  9 08:23:31 2018
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From: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-05 - 2 Week WG LC from 4/13 to 4/27
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The WGLC is officially over, but not announced as over. I meant to 
comment on this ID sooner, but here are some thoughts anyway.

The IDR WG needs to take on board the Camel presentation from dnsops.

BGP is already a hugely convoluted protocol, and this convolution breeds 
both complexity and fragility.  It's not that any individual chunk of 
the protocol is especially complicated in itself: it's more that in 
order to produce a working BGP stack, it's necessary to transcode 
voluminous tomes of RFCs and then figure out all the implementation 
subtleties required for reasonable interoperability with other stacks.

Occasionally I get to talk to people who attempt to write new BGP stacks 
and their opinion is that it's a daunting prospect.  The sheer volume of 
features in BGP is now such that building new BGP implementations is 
prohibitively expensive, and the possibility of starting again with a 
new protocol (bgp5?) is receding further into the distance due to the 
scale of what it would take to replicate the bits of BGP that people 
need and use.

There's no doubt all these protocol developments are useful, but the 
cost of implementing them is not linear.  Probably as a working group, 
we need to take stock of this and try to decide where we want BGP to be 
in 20 years?  Tacking on more arms and legs?  Or do we ever envisage 
taking out the secateurs or a saw?

Regarding draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd implementations, or lack thereof, there 
isn't a compelling reason why the normal guidelines for WG LC should be 
waived.  In fact, John's argument suggests the opposite - there have 
been some major protocol design changes in what's been suggested since 
the draft was first mooted, and there's still no code to prove that it 
will work well in real life situations, or that the spec is defined well 
enough that one implementation might interoperate with another.

Interoperability in this case is more important than usual because the 
ID is targetted at ixp route servers, which often have weird, ancient 
and tragically broken devices connected.  On AS43760, which is a small 
RS, we still have ~5% of devices not supporting the AS4 extension. 
Think about what that means in terms of code rot.

Regarding the content of the ID, there are two aspects to it: bfd 
brokerage and NH reachability propagation.

The draft states that both problems need to be fixed, but do they 
really?  Is BFD brokerage not sufficient?  Putting it another way, is 
the complexity required by the NH reachability propagation really 
justified by the gain in benefit?  I am having trouble understanding 
why.  Although I can see what it does and how it works, it looks like 
it's optimising an edge case rather than dealing with the meat of the 
issue which is bfd brokerage.

It would dramatically simplify the proposal if the NH reachability 
propagation part could be stripped out.  If it's left in, then the 
overall mechanism seems to be a very complicated and very new departure 
for BGP, which gets back to the point above about the point at which the 
straw breaks the camel's back.  I really think the authors need to make 
it clear why this part of the specification cannot be done without.

Regarding WGLC, I can understand the desire to get this ID into the bag, 
get it on customer feature spec lists and get it out the door from a 
vendor point of view, but I query the wisdom of pushing a draft like 
this through IETF WGLC without any running code in the general case, and 
a good deal more in this specific case.

Right now, I'm inclined to think that it shouldn't proceed until there 
is consensus that the extenuating circumstances are sufficient that it 
should get special treatment, or, as John says below, whether we should 
open up a wider discussion on what part running code plays in protocol 
development.  We may also wish to discuss protocol over-development and 
the balance between complexity vs gain.

Nick

John G. Scudder wrote:
> (As a co-author, yes, really. Maybe the co-chair would even disagree 
> with some of these points, who knows.[*])
> 
>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 1:31 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net 
>> <mailto:job@ntt.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Are there implementations? Is there an implemention report as per IDR 
>> tradition?
>>
>> If not, I donâ€™t support progressing this draft at this moment.
>>
>> The machinery described in this draft is not entirely straight 
>> forward, without running code we should hold off on progressing. 
> 
> For those who missed it, there is a bit more context in Job's earlier 
> note, https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19261.html, 
> including
> 
> "ps. yes, i know IDR can have WGLC without running code, but given that
> this is a non-trivial extension to BGP; I'd really like to see multiple
> implementations that are able to interact with each other in the correct
> way and a report detailing the interopability."
> 
> In this case the authors are, exactly and without pretense, requesting 
> WGLC without running code. Which seems a funny thing coming from me -- 
> sometimes all these hats I wear get too tight and give me a headache. 
> Anyway, in this case we think it's worth doing the WGLC because it 
> indicates as clearly as we can to potential implementors that the spec 
> is "done" and will not continue to mutate. As you might recall, this 
> particular spec has changed quite a lot over its history, more than 
> many, and I wouldn't blame an implementor for standing back and waiting 
> for the dust to settle before writing code.
> 
> As we all know (and have a history of doing, as a WG) if post-WGLC 
> implementation experience indicates a need for changes, the draft can 
> and will be updated to take them onboard, and of course if those changes 
> are substantive enough, I would expect a new WGLC would be needed at 
> that point. Other groups do this same review/implementation cycle by 
> progressing things to RFC, then implementing, then bis-ing or otherwise 
> updating the RFCs. I am not (again, as a WG member) a fan of that, and 
> I'm glad we don't do things that way, although our way is also not 
> perfect as witness this discussion.
> 
> Fundamentally a WGLC is a way of asking the WG, "the authors think this 
> is done, do you agree?" We are asking. "We have implementations" is a 
> strong argument to support the "we are done" argument, but it's neither 
> necessary nor sufficient and so far the WG has deemed it desirable but 
> not required for WGLC. We think there would be no benefit, and some 
> harm, from letting the document sit in "active WG draft" status when 
> it's *not* in fact active and the authors have moved on to other things. 
> Moving it to "waiting for implementation" status, if the results of the 
> WGLC support that, is more honest and more clear. I suppose another way 
> of doing this would be to invent some IDR pre-WGLC-WGLC that feeds into 
> the "waiting for implementation" document state, but right now we don't 
> have that.
> 
> Of course you and any other WG member are free to use all the facts at 
> your disposal (including the document itself, and including any reported 
> implementation) to decide if you want to support a WGLC, and that's fine.
> 
> Finally I'd like to ask (and this *is* with the co-chair hat on) that if 
> we continue a wide-ranging philosophical discussion of the IDR 
> implementation tradition as opposed to a discussion of whether the doc 
> is ready for WGLC, that we change the subject line accordingly.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --John
> 
> [*] "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am 
> large, I contain multitudes." --Walt Whitman
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
> 


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Model for Service Provider Networks
        Authors         : Keyur Patel
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Susan Hares
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-03.txt
	Pages           : 75
	Date            : 2018-05-09

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model for configuring and managing
   BGP, including protocol, policy, and operational aspects based on
   data center, carrier and content provider operational requirements.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed May  9 18:54:02 2018
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Joel Jaeggli'" <joelja@bogus.com>, <ops-dir@ietf.org>
Cc: <idr@ietf.org>, <ietf@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.all@ietf.org>
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Hi, Joel:

Is there any IETF document to define the "IPv4/IPv6 Source Router ID" in =
OSPFv2/v3, for the similar scenarios that described in RFC7794?


Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
Network R&D and Operation Support Department
China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Joel Jaeggli [mailto:joelja@bogus.com]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 =
14:46
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: ops-dir@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.all@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Idr] Opsdir early review of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06

Reviewer: Joel Jaeggli
Review result: Has Nits

I have performed a requested early review on the behalf of the =
operations directorate of the current =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06.
Generally I think this document is good, I won't say ready, as this =
review is intended as an early review not a final one.

Some nits

1-
introduction

   This way, all BGP speakers (specifically the route-reflectors) obtain
   Link-State information from all IGP areas (and from other ASes from
   EBGP peers).

* BGP speakers are agnostic about the source of the information beyond =
that it was exported with certain properties from the rib of =
it=E2=80=99s neighbor.

2 -
   An external component (e.g., a controller) then can
   collect SR information in the "northbound" direction across IGP areas
   or ASes and construct the end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs)
   that need to be applied to an incoming packet to achieve the desired
   end-to-end forwarding.

* Unqualified use of the term northbound I find generally problematic, =
particularly in the case of a route reflector. Previously RFC 7752 =
manged to use the term in the title and then never again within the =
text.

3-

2.3.3.  Source Router Identifier (Source Router-ID) TLV

   The Source Router-ID TLV contains the IPv4 or IPv6 Router-ID of the
   originator of the Prefix.  For IS-IS protocol this is as defined in
   [RFC7794].  The Source Router-ID TLV may be used to carry the OSPF
   Router-ID of the prefix originator.

   The Source Router-ID TLV has the following format:

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |            Type               |            Length             |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   //                  IPv4/IPv6 Address (Router-ID)              //
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

   where:

      Type: TBD, see Section 4.

      Length: 4 or 16.

      IPv4/IPv6 Address: 4 octet IPv4 address or 16 octet IPv6 address.

   The semantic of the Source Router-ID TLV is defined in [RFC7794].

* While RFC7794 Router-IDs are in fact IP addresses. OSPF Router-IDs are =
not even if they happen to look like them, this is particularly germain =
with ospfv3 but it=E2=80=99s worth making the distinction.

4 -
5.1.1.  Operations

   Existing BGP and BGP-LS operational procedures apply.  No additional
   operation procedures are defined in this document.

* An informative or normative reference (probably to 7752 especially =
fault
mangement) is probably required.

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John

--_000_2997BE5DF4C64AC29B00126436FC5141junipernet_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
Hi All,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jgs@juniper.net" class=3D"">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; fon=
t-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spa=
cing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; wh=
ite-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float=
: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">The
 authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-fl=
owspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.</sp=
an><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal=
; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; t=
ext-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norm=
al; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">A quick update on the status of this WGLC:</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"">- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) hav=
e responded supporting publication.</div>
<div class=3D"">- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.</=
div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be h=
elpful if others would chime in.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks,</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">--John</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_2997BE5DF4C64AC29B00126436FC5141junipernet_--


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From: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 18:57:38 +0000
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References: <DB4DB79D-22DD-45A7-980A-B33C5E58C1C7@juniper.net>, <2997BE5D-F4C6-4AC2-9B00-126436FC5141@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)





Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net=
]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06

Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
ial or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is st=
rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communicat=
ion in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and dest=
roy all copies of the communication and any attachments.

--_000_68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D53DB49B4PDDCWMBXEX503ct_
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px
}
</style>
</head>
<body style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word" fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, s=
o support.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/2=
0171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf">https://pc.nanog.org/static/publi=
shed/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></p=
>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one ho=
p away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peer=
s.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the <a href=3D"ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575">
RFC 5575</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, for=
ward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as =
it is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the=
 filter.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;when I think of =
IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions=
) but that is kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom=
 could do IBGP between them but is that required?
 Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)<br>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">
<div>
<div>Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</div>
<div>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</div>
<div>Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Te=
ra&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&=
nbsp;<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">Nano Pico&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto</font></div>
</div>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><a tabindex=3D"0" href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@century=
link.com" target=3D"">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF448294" style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf=
 of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>Hi All,
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@ju=
niper.net" target=3D"_blank">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: n=
ormal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FLOAT: none; FONT-WEIGHT: n=
ormal; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline !important; LETTER-SPACING: norm=
al; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">The authors
 have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-o=
id-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><br s=
tyle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-=
SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal=
; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>A quick update on the status of this WGLC:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).</div>
<div>- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded=
 supporting publication.</div>
<div>- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if o=
thers would chime in.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--John</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<center>This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain c=
onfidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communicati=
on is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this co=
mmunication in error, please immediately
 notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communicat=
ion and any attachments.</center>
</body>
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From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
To: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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I support the draft.

Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for =
traffic going to AS3?
If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
The rules stated here are for default behavior.
Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be =
accepted.

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Smith, Donald
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net=
]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
ial or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is st=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">I support the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accep=
t a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then=
 I don't see why not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">The rules stated here are for default behavi=
or.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Local policy may allow flow specifications f=
rom other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&g=
t;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;; idr@ietf. org &lt;idr@ietf=
.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we w=
ant to do, so support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NA=
NOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf">https://pc.nanog.org/=
static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v=
2.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That is almost always going to be between some set of system=
s not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not real=
ly IBGP peers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575">RFC 5575</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwardin=
g plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter i=
ntuitive as it is more likely to come from some
 BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;when=
 I think of IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there ar=
e exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while this
 is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that requi=
red? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbs=
p;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf
 of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">draf=
t-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi All, <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58=
 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The authors have requested a working g=
roup last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with =
your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">A quick update on the st=
atus of this WGLC:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- All the authors have r=
esponded about IPR (thank you!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Three people who are n=
ot authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Nobody has responded w=
ith other comments or opposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Three respondents is not=
 a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">The WGLC period is sched=
uled to end tomorrow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">--John<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">This co=
mmunication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or =
privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly =
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
 have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the s=
ender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any a=
ttachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: "Kasavchenko, Kirill" <kkasavchenko@arbor.net>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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From: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>,  "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>, "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 14:50:17 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the ca=
se I was describing.

All the other BGP security issues would still apply.

Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me, i=
n case they have anything to add.





Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06

I support the draft.

Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for =
traffic going to AS3?
If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
The rules stated here are for default behavior.
Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be =
accepted.

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Smith, Donald
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net=
]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
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<p>That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the=
 case I was describing.</p>
<p>All the other BGP security issues would still apply. </p>
<p>Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me=
, in case they have anything to add.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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<div>Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</div>
<div>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</div>
<div>Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Te=
ra&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&=
nbsp;<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">Nano Pico&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto</font></div>
</div>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><a tabindex=3D"0" href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@century=
link.com" target=3D"">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF889414" style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.c=
om]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">I support the draft.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should ac=
cept a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, t=
hen I don't see why not.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">The rules stated here are for default beh=
avior.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Local policy may allow flow specification=
s from other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Jakob</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BOR=
DER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEF=
T: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt;=
 FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org=
&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;; idr@ietf. org &lt;idr@ietf=
.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work w=
e want to do, so support.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings=
/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf" target=3D"_blank">=
https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">That is almost always going to be between some set of sys=
tems not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not r=
eally IBGP peers.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of th=
e
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5575<=
/a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwar=
ding plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counte=
r intuitive as it is more likely to come from
 some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;w=
hen I think of IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there=
 are exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while
 this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that =
required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -0=
00&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&=
nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto A=
tto</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centur=
ylink.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From=
:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf
 of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Hi All, </span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:5=
8 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">The authors have requested a workin=
g group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond wi=
th your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">=
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">A quick update on the s=
tatus of this WGLC:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- All the authors have =
responded about IPR (thank you!).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- Three people who are =
not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- Nobody has responded =
with other comments or opposition.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Three respondents is no=
t a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">The WGLC period is sche=
duled to end tomorrow.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">--John</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center">This c=
ommunication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or=
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 prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
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To: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>, "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
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From: "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Don,

(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect 
extended-community draft)

We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.

"Optionally, an implementation
    could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
    only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with
    networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
    administrative domain."

This is not what you want?

-J

On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:
>
> That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover 
> the case I was describing.
>
> All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
>
> Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with 
> me, in case they have anything to add.
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
> Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring 
> For     Ages
> Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano 
> Pico    Femto Atto
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
> *To:* Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> I support the draft.
>
> Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 
> for traffic going to AS3?
>
> If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
>
> Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
>
> The rules stated here are for default behavior.
>
> Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors 
> to be accepted.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jakob
>
> *From:*Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Smith, Donald
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
> *To:* John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf..org>
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, 
> so support.
>
> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf
>
> That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one 
> hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really 
> IBGP peers.
>
> " It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
>    validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
>    data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."
>
> While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, 
> forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter 
> intuitive as it is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in 
> ISP requesting the filter.
>
> Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of 
> IBGP, IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are 
> exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while this is mostly 
> between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that required? 
> Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
>
> Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring 
> For     Ages
>
> Exa   Peta Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    
> Femto Atto
>
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of John Scudder 
> [jgs@juniper.net]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
> *To:* idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> Hi All,
>
>     On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>> wrote:
>
>     The authors have requested a working group last call for
>     draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your
>     comments before Friday, May 11.
>
> A quick update on the status of this WGLC:
>
> - All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
>
> - Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded 
> supporting publication.
>
> - Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.
>
> Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if 
> others would chime in.
>
> The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --John
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain 
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this 
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the 
> sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and 
> any attachments.
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain 
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this 
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the 
> sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and 
> any attachments.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



--------------C41C95C11CDF013C8C1D8B7A
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Don,<br>
      <br>
      (just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect
      extended-community draft)<br>
      <br>
      We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last
      revision.<br>
      <br>
      "Optionally, an implementation<br>
         could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs
      containing<br>
         only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with<br>
         networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the
      same<br>
         administrative domain."<br>
      <br>
      This is not what you want?<br>
      <br>
      -J<br>
      <br>
      On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D53DB4D80@PDDCWMBXEX503.ctl.intranet">
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      <div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
        #000000;font-size: 10pt;">
        <p>That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that
          should cover the case I was describing.</p>
        <p>All the other BGP security issues would still apply. </p>
        <p>Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this
          concept with me, in case they have anything to add.</p>
        <p> </p>
        <div>
          <p> </p>
          <div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
            <div><font size="2" face="Segoe UI">
                <div>
                  <div>Metric System &lt; +000 &gt; -000 </div>
                  <div>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY
                    uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     Ages</div>
                  <div>Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo
                    milli Micro(u) <font size="2" face="Segoe UI"
                      color="#000000">Nano Pico    Femto Atto</font></div>
                </div>
              </font></div>
            <div><font size="2"><a tabindex="0"
                  href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com" target=""
                  moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></font></div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman;
          COLOR: #000000">
          <hr tabindex="-1">
          <div id="divRpF889414" style="DIRECTION: ltr"><font size="2"
              face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Jakob Heitz
              (jheitz) [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for
              draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div class="WordSection1">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">I
                  support the draft.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Donald,
                  are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule
                  from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">If
                  AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see
                  why not.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Maybe
                  we can add text to the effect of:</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">The
                  rules stated here are for default behavior.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Local
                  policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP
                  neighbors to be accepted.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span> </p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                    FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR:
                    #7030a0">Thanks,</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                    FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR:
                    #7030a0">Jakob</span></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Courier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span> </p>
              <div>
                <div style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT:
                  medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
                  PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT:
                  0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
                        FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
                      style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                      &quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> John Scudder <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>;
                      idr@ietf. org <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:idr@ietf..org">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a><br>
                      <b>Cc:</b>
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for
                      draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <div>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">This
                    supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work
                    we want to do, so support.</span></p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"><a
href="https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span></p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">That is
                    almost always going to be between some set of
                    systems not one hop away, not directly in the
                    forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.</span></p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">" It
                    thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the
                    <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RFC 5575</a><br>
                       validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that
                    is not within the<br>
                       data forwarding plane may originate flow
                    specification NLRIs."</span></p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">While
                    you could have the IBGP peer directly in the
                    forwarding plane, forward it like a route reflector,
                    requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it is
                    more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in
                    ISP requesting the filter.</span></p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Next
                    lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I
                    think of IBGP, IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes
                    I know there are exceptions) but that is kind of the
                    meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom
                    could do IBGP between them but is that required?
                    Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span></p>
                <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                <div>
                  <p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                      &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
                              10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Segoe
                              UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Metric
                              System &lt; +000 &gt; -000 </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
                              10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Segoe
                              UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Extra
                              People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY
                              uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     Ages</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
                              10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Segoe
                              UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Exa   Peta       
                              Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli
                              Micro(u) Nano Pico    Femto Atto</span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                          FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;
                          COLOR: black"><a
                            href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
                    align="center"><span style="COLOR: black">
                      <hr size="2" align="center" width="100%">
                    </span></div>
                  <div id="divRpF448294">
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                          &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From:</span></b><span
                        style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                        &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">
                        Idr [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] on behalf of John
                        Scudder [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a
                          href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                          draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for
                        draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span><span
                        style="COLOR: black"></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">Hi
                        All, </span></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt;
                          MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
                                black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John
                                Scudder &lt;<a
                                  href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                                wrote:</span></p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
                              black"></span> </p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
                                9pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                                &quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                                black">The authors have requested a
                                working group last call for
                                draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06.
                                Please respond with your comments before
                                Friday, May 11.</span><span
                                style="COLOR: black"></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">A
                          quick update on the status of this WGLC:</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">-
                          All the authors have responded about IPR
                          (thank you!).</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">-
                          Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam,
                          Keyur) have responded supporting publication.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">-
                          Nobody has responded with other comments or
                          opposition.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">Three
                          respondents is not a very large number; it
                          would be helpful if others would chime in.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">The
                          WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">Thanks,</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black">--John</span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
                align="center">This communication is the property of
                CenturyLink and may contain confidential or privileged
                information. Unauthorized use of this communication is
                strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
                received this communication in error, please immediately
                notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
                of the communication and any attachments.</p>
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      <center>This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may
        contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use
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        please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
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From: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
To: "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>, "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 19:30:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.

But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the past (fa=
r left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?

As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a better pat=
h it should work.



Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both have=
 routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network wouldn't it b=
e blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is B's path.

This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.



What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might not b=
e seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and wants us to =
take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?









Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
To: Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06

Don,

(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)

We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.

"Optionally, an implementation
   could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
   only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with
   networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
   administrative domain."

This is not what you want?

-J

On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:

That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the ca=
se I was describing.

All the other BGP security issues would still apply.

Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me, i=
n case they have anything to add.





Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com<mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06

I support the draft.

Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for =
traffic going to AS3?
If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
The rules stated here are for default behavior.
Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be =
accepted.

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of =
Smith, Donald
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net><mailto:jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <=
idr@ietf..org><mailto:idr@ietf..org>
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf of =
John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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1">
</head>
<body bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.</p>
<p>But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the past =
(far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?</p>
<p>As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a better =
path it should work.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both h=
ave routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network wouldn't i=
t be blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is B's path.</p>
<p>This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.</=
p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might no=
t be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and wants us =
to take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">
<div>
<div>Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</div>
<div>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</div>
<div>Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Te=
ra&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&=
nbsp;<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">Nano Pico&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto</font></div>
</div>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><a tabindex=3D"0" href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@century=
link.com" target=3D"">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF81433" style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cis=
co.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ie=
tf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Don,<br>
<br>
(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)<br>
<br>
We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.<br>
<br>
&quot;Optionally, an implementation<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs con=
taining<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; only a subset of ASes.&nbsp; This could be useful, for example=
, with<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the =
same<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; administrative domain.&quot;<br>
<br>
This is not what you want?<br>
<br>
-J<br>
<br>
On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:<br>
</div>
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ON: ltr">
<p>That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the=
 case I was describing.</p>
<p>All the other BGP security issues would still apply. </p>
<p>Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me=
, in case they have anything to add.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">
<div>
<div>Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</div>
<div>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</div>
<div>Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Te=
ra&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&=
nbsp;<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">Nano Pico&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto</font></div>
</div>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><a tabindex=3D"0" href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@century=
link.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF889414" style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a class=3D"mo=
z-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">=
jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">I support the draft.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should ac=
cept a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, t=
hen I don't see why not.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">The rules stated here are for default beh=
avior.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Local policy may allow flow specification=
s from other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Jakob</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BOR=
DER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEF=
T: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt;=
 FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:j=
gs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">
&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>; idr@ietf. org <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396=
E" href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">
&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work w=
e want to do, so support.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings=
/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf" target=3D"_blank">=
https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">That is almost always going to be between some set of sys=
tems not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not r=
eally IBGP peers.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of th=
e
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5575<=
/a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwar=
ding plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counte=
r intuitive as it is more likely to come from
 some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;w=
hen I think of IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there=
 are exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while
 this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that =
required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&n=
bsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nb=
sp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto</span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centur=
ylink.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From=
:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Idr [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=
=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
]
 on behalf of John Scudder [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"m=
ailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Hi All, </span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:5=
8 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">The authors have requested a workin=
g group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond wi=
th your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">=
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">A quick update on the s=
tatus of this WGLC:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- All the authors have =
responded about IPR (thank you!).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- Three people who are =
not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- Nobody has responded =
with other comments or opposition.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Three respondents is no=
t a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">The WGLC period is sche=
duled to end tomorrow.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">--John</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center">This c=
ommunication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or=
 privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly=
 prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
 have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the s=
ender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any a=
ttachments.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<center>This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain c=
onfidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communicati=
on is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this co=
mmunication in error, please immediately
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<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader" target=3D"_blank"></fieldset> <br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a>
</pre>
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From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
To: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>, "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or reword your scenario?

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM
To: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalcaide@cisco.com>; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jhe=
itz@cisco.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org=
>
Cc: nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>; draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.

But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the past (fa=
r left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?

As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a better pat=
h it should work.



Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both have=
 routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network wouldn't it b=
e blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is B's path.

This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.



What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might not b=
e seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and wants us to =
take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?








Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
To: Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: nl7942@att.com<mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Don,

(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)

We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.

"Optionally, an implementation
   could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
   only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with
   networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
   administrative domain."

This is not what you want?

-J

On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:

That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the ca=
se I was describing.

All the other BGP security issues would still apply.

Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me, i=
n case they have anything to add.




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com<mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
I support the draft.

Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for =
traffic going to AS3?
If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
The rules stated here are for default behavior.
Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be =
accepted.

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of =
Smith, Donald
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net><mailto:jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <=
idr@ietf..org><mailto:idr@ietf..org>
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf of =
John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
ial or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is st=
rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communicat=
ion in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and dest=
roy all copies of the communication and any attachments.
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
ial or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is st=
rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communicat=
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_______________________________________________

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Idr@ietf.org<mailto:Idr@ietf.org>

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This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or rewo=
rd your scenario?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Smith, Donald &lt;Donald.Smith=
@CenturyLink.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;jalcaide@cisco.com&gt;; Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz) &lt;jheitz@cisco.com&gt;; John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;; id=
r@ietf. org &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John &lt;John.Schiel@centurylink.com&gt;=
; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS =
in the past (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't ha=
ve a better path it should work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and =
ISP B both have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that networ=
k wouldn't it be blocked as the best path to
 the customer inside of B is B's path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This is actually a different problem, or subset of the origi=
nal issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">What should happen in that case? I might want to take action=
, I might not be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is a=
nd wants us to take action as they expect we
 will be seeing that traffic soon?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbs=
p;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF81433">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com">nl7942@att.com</a>; Schiel, Jo=
hn; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Don,<br>
<br>
(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)<br>
<br>
We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.<br>
<br>
&quot;Optionally, an implementation<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs con=
taining<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; only a subset of ASes.&nbsp; This could be useful, for example=
, with<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the =
same<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; administrative domain.&quot;<br>
<br>
This is not what you want?<br>
<br>
-J<br>
<br>
On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that shou=
ld cover the case I was describing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this con=
cept with me, in case they have anything to add.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbs=
p;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF889414">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">I support the draft.</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accep=
t a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then=
 I don't see why not.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">The rules stated here are for default behavi=
or.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Local policy may allow flow specifications f=
rom other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Idr
<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt;</a> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder <a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank=
">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>; idr@ietf. org
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a=
><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we w=
ant to do, so support.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NA=
NOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Oper=
ationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That is almost always going to be between some set of system=
s not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not real=
ly IBGP peers.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5575<=
/a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwardin=
g plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter i=
ntuitive as it is more likely to come from some
 BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;when=
 I think of IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there ar=
e exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while this
 is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that requi=
red? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;=
000 &gt; -000&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Extra People's Terribly =
Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;P=
urring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Pet=
a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Gi=
ga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Femto Atto<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of John Scudder [<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi All, <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58=
 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The authors have requested a working g=
roup last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with =
your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">A quick update on the st=
atus of this WGLC:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- All the authors have r=
esponded about IPR (thank you!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Three people who are n=
ot authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Nobody has responded w=
ith other comments or opposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Three respondents is not=
 a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">The WGLC period is sched=
uled to end tomorrow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">--John<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">__________________________________________=
_____<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Idr mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a>=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">This co=
mmunication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or =
privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly =
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
 have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the s=
ender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any a=
ttachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>, "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Yes.. also, I'd say we can keep the wording simple and open. So 
implementation/configuration can decide

-J

On 5/11/2018 9:39 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote:
>
> Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or reword your scenario?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jakob
>
> *From:*Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM
> *To:* Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalcaide@cisco.com>; Jakob Heitz 
> (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. 
> org <idr@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>; 
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.
>
> But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the 
> past (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?
>
> As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a 
> better path it should work.
>
> Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both 
> have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network 
> wouldn't it be blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is 
> B's path.
>
> This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.
>
> What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might 
> not be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and 
> wants us to take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic 
> soon?
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
>
> Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLE NedÂ Â Â Purring ForÂ Â Â Â  
> Ages
>
> ExaÂ Â Â Peta TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â  
> Femto Atto
>
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
> *To:* Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* nl7942@att.com <mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John; 
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org 
> <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> Don,
>
> (just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect 
> extended-community draft)
>
> We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.
>
> "Optionally, an implementation
> Â Â  could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
> Â Â  only a subset of ASes.Â  This could be useful, for example, with
> Â Â  networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
> Â Â  administrative domain."
>
> This is not what you want?
>
> -J
>
> On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:
>
>     That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should
>     cover the case I was describing.
>
>     All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
>
>     Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept
>     with me, in case they have anything to add.
>
>     Metric System < +000 > -000
>
>     Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLEÂ Â Â  NedÂ Â Â Purring
>     ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages
>
>     ExaÂ Â Â Peta TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â 
>     Femto Atto
>
>     Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com
>     <mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
>     *To:* Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
>     *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     I support the draft.
>
>     Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from
>     AS2 for traffic going to AS3?
>
>     If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
>
>     Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
>
>     The rules stated here are for default behavior.
>
>     Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP
>     neighbors to be accepted.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Jakob
>
>     *From:*Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>
>     *On Behalf Of *Smith, Donald
>     *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
>     *To:* John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>;
>     idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf..org> <mailto:idr@ietf..org>
>     *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to
>     do, so support.
>
>     https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf
>
>     That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not
>     one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not
>     really IBGP peers.
>
>     " It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575
>     <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
>     Â Â  validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
>     Â Â  data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."
>
>     While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding
>     plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems
>     counter intuitive as it is more likely to come from some BGP
>     speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.
>
>     Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,Â when I think of
>     IBGP,Â IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are
>     exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while this is mostly
>     between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that
>     required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)
>
>     Metric System < +000 > -000
>
>     Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLE NedÂ Â Â Purring
>     ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages
>
>     ExaÂ Â Â Peta TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â 
>     Femto Atto
>
>     Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] on
>     behalf of John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
>     *To:* idr@ietf. org
>     *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     Hi All,
>
>         On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net
>         <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>> wrote:
>
>         The authors have requested a working group last call for
>         draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your
>         comments before Friday, May 11.
>
>     A quick update on the status of this WGLC:
>
>     - All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
>
>     - Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have
>     responded supporting publication.
>
>     - Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.
>
>     Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful
>     if others would chime in.
>
>     The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     --John
>
>     This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
>     confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
>     communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
>     have received this communication in error, please immediately
>     notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
>     communication and any attachments.
>
>     This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
>     confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
>     communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
>     have received this communication in error, please immediately
>     notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
>     communication and any attachments.
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Idr mailing list
>
>     Idr@ietf.org <mailto:Idr@ietf.org>
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain 
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this 
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the 
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Yes.. also, I'd say we can keep the
      wording simple and open. So implementation/configuration can
      decide<br>
      <br>
      -J<br>
      <br>
      On 5/11/2018 9:39 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:a5c07854cdba4e09b7fd6c3751acfbf2@XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Sorry Donald, Can you draw a
            diagram or reword your scenario?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                Smith, Donald <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com">&lt;Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com&gt;</a>
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com">&lt;jalcaide@cisco.com&gt;</a>; Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com">&lt;jheitz@cisco.com&gt;</a>; John Scudder
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>; idr@ietf. org
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:idr@ietf.org">&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;</a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nl7942@att.com">nl7942@att.com</a>; Schiel, John
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com">&lt;John.Schiel@centurylink.com&gt;</a>;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for
                draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I
              am not entirely sure if that works here or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">But
              I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in
              the past (far left) and maybe not show the original
              customer AS?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">As
              long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't
              have a better path it should work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Now
              what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and
              ISP B both have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to
              B for that network wouldn't it be blocked as the best path
              to the customer inside of B is B's path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This
              is actually a different problem, or subset of the original
              issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">What
              should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I
              might not be seeing a huge flood, while the original
              announcer (A) is and wants us to take action as they
              expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <div>
            <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                        UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System
                        &lt; +000 &gt; -000Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                        UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's
                        Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLEÂ Â Â 
                        NedÂ Â Â Purring ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                        UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                        TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano
                        PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
                      href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
              align="center"><span style="color:black">
                <hr size="2" align="center" width="100%">
              </span></div>
            <div id="divRpF81433">
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                  Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>]<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John
                  Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:nl7942@att.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">nl7942@att.com</a>; Schiel,
                  John; <a
                    href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">
                    draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for
                  draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span><span
                  style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Don,<br>
                    <br>
                    (just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with
                    the redirect extended-community draft)<br>
                    <br>
                    We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in
                    the last revision.<br>
                    <br>
                    "Optionally, an implementation<br>
                    Â Â  could be configured to allow only flow
                    specification NLRIs containing<br>
                    Â Â  only a subset of ASes.Â  This could be useful, for
                    example, with<br>
                    Â Â  networks that consist of multiple ASes that
                    operate under the same<br>
                    Â Â  administrative domain."<br>
                    <br>
                    This is not what you want?<br>
                    <br>
                    -J<br>
                    <br>
                    On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <div>
                  <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">That
                      would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that
                      should cover the case I was describing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">All
                      the other BGP security issues would still apply.
                      <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Cc'ing
                      the two architects that have been working on this
                      concept with me, in case they have anything to
                      add.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric
                                System &lt; +000 &gt; -000Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra
                                People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY
                                uNCLEÂ Â Â  NedÂ Â Â Purring ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                                TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli
                                Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
                              href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                      align="center"><span style="color:black">
                        <hr size="2" align="center" width="100%">
                      </span></div>
                    <div id="divRpF889414">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                          Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a
                            href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder;
                          idr@ietf. org<br>
                          <b>Cc:</b> <a
                            href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                            draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for
                          draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span><span
                          style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">I support the
                            draft.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Donald, are you
                            saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec
                            rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span><span
                            style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">If AS1 can trust
                            the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why
                            not.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Maybe we can add
                            text to the effect of:</span><span
                            style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">The rules stated
                            here are for default behavior.</span><span
                            style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                            New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Local policy may
                            allow flow specifications from other EBGP
                            neighbors to be accepted.</span><span
                            style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                              New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,</span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                              New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob</span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                            #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                Idr
                                <a href="mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
                                <b>
                                  On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
                                <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018
                                11:58 AM<br>
                                <b>To:</b> John Scudder <a
                                  href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>;
                                idr@ietf. org
                                <a href="mailto:idr@ietf..org"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a><br>
                                <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                  href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for
                                draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span><span
                                style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This
                              supports some of the bi-lateral,
                              ddos-peering work we want to do, so
                              support.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">That
                              is almost always going to be between some
                              set of systems not one hop away, not
                              directly in the forwarding plane, probably
                              not really IBGP peers.</span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">"
                              It thus becomes necessary to modify step
                              (a) of the
                              <a
                                href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RFC
                                5575</a><br>
                              Â Â  validation procedure such that an IBGP
                              peer that is not within the<br>
                              Â Â  data forwarding plane may originate
                              flow specification NLRIs."</span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">While
                              you could have the IBGP peer directly in
                              the forwarding plane, forward it like a
                              route reflector, requiring it to seems
                              counter intuitive as it is more likely to
                              come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP
                              requesting the filter.</span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Next
                              lots of references to IBGP and a few to
                              EBGP,Â when I think of IBGP,Â IBGP is
                              internal to a single AS (yes I know there
                              are exceptions) but that is kind of the
                              meaning, while this is mostly between
                              peers (whom could do IBGP between them but
                              is that required? Can't we validate
                              without IBGP direct connections?)</span><span
                              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <div>
                            <p><span style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="color:black">Metric
                                        System &lt; +000 &gt; -000Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="color:black">Extra
                                        People's Terribly Good
                                        MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLEÂ Â Â 
                                        NedÂ Â Â Purring ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                                        TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli
                                        Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span
                                    style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div class="MsoNormal"
                              style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
                                style="color:black">
                                <hr size="2" align="center" width="100%">
                              </span></div>
                            <div id="divRpF448294">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                  Idr [<a
                                    href="mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                                  on behalf of John Scudder [<a
                                    href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018
                                  12:28 PM<br>
                                  <b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
                                  <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                    href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for
                                  draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span><span
                                  style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                  style="color:black">Hi All, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                <div>
                                  <blockquote
                                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="color:black">On Apr 26,
                                          2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder
                                          &lt;<a
                                            href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;
                                          wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The
                                          authors have requested a
                                          working group last call for
                                          draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06.
                                          Please respond with your
                                          comments before Friday, May
                                          11.</span><span
                                          style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">A quick update
                                    on the status of this WGLC:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">- All the
                                    authors have responded about IPR
                                    (thank you!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">- Three people
                                    who are not authors (Acee, Shyam,
                                    Keyur) have responded supporting
                                    publication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">- Nobody has
                                    responded with other comments or
                                    opposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Three
                                    respondents is not a very large
                                    number; it would be helpful if
                                    others would chime in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">The WGLC period
                                    is scheduled to end tomorrow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="color:black">--John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                          align="center"><span style="color:black">This
                            communication is the property of CenturyLink
                            and may contain confidential or privileged
                            information. Unauthorized use of this
                            communication is strictly prohibited and may
                            be unlawful. If you have received this
                            communication in error, please immediately
                            notify the sender by reply e-mail and
                            destroy all copies of the communication and
                            any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                  align="center"><span style="color:black">This
                    communication is the property of CenturyLink and may
                    contain confidential or privileged information.
                    Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly
                    prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received
                    this communication in error, please immediately
                    notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
                    copies of the communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
                    <br>
                    <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                <pre><span style="color:black">Idr mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                <pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Idr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                <pre><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
              </blockquote>
              <p><span style="color:black"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center">This
          communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
          confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of
          this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
          If you have received this communication in error, please
          immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
          copies of the communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

--------------625B5E15175E21F3893F38AC--


From nobody Fri May 11 13:36:27 2018
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From: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>, "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 20:36:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Customer M

|              |

|              |

|              |

ISPA------ISPB



ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and triggers a flowspec ru=
le internally and to ISPB.

But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and receives BGP anno=
uncements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes that would be pr=
eferred internally), thus the flowspec check would fail right?









Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06

Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or reword your scenario?

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM
To: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalcaide@cisco.com>; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jhe=
itz@cisco.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org=
>
Cc: nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>; draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.

But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the past (fa=
r left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?

As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a better pat=
h it should work.



Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both have=
 routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network wouldn't it b=
e blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is B's path.

This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.



What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might not b=
e seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and wants us to =
take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?








Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
To: Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: nl7942@att.com<mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Don,

(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)

We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.

"Optionally, an implementation
   could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
   only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with
   networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
   administrative domain."

This is not what you want?

-J

On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:

That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the ca=
se I was describing.

All the other BGP security issues would still apply.

Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me, i=
n case they have anything to add.




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com<mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
I support the draft.

Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for =
traffic going to AS3?
If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
The rules stated here are for default behavior.
Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be =
accepted.

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of =
Smith, Donald
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net><mailto:jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <=
idr@ietf..org><mailto:idr@ietf..org>
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf of =
John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
ial or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is st=
rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communicat=
ion in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and dest=
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This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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_______________________________________________

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This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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ion in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and dest=
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This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confident=
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--_000_68EFACB32CF4464298EA2779B058889D53DB514EPDDCWMBXEX503ct_
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<body lang=3D"EN-US" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue" bgcolor=3D"white" fPSty=
le=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Customer M</p>
<p>|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; |</p>
<p>|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</p>
<p>|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; |</p>
<p>ISPA------ISPB</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and triggers a flowspec=
 rule internally and to ISPB.</p>
<p>But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and receives BGP a=
nnouncements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes that would be=
 preferred internally), thus the flowspec check would fail right?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">
<div>
<div>Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</div>
<div>Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</div>
<div>Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Te=
ra&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&=
nbsp;<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2" face=3D"Segoe UI">Nano Pico&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto</font></div>
</div>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><a tabindex=3D"0" href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@century=
link.com" target=3D"">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF503321" style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.c=
om]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. =
org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ie=
tf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or r=
eword your scenario?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Jakob</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BOR=
DER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEF=
T: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt;=
 FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Smith, Donald &lt;Donald.Smi=
th@CenturyLink.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;jalcaide@cisco.com&gt;; Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz) &lt;jheitz@cisco.com&gt;; John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;; id=
r@ietf. org &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John &lt;John.Schiel@centurylink.com&gt;=
; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.</span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">But I think with that you could show some AS as the last =
AS in the past (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?</spa=
n></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't=
 have a better path it should work.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A a=
nd ISP B both have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that net=
work wouldn't it be blocked as the best path
 to the customer inside of B is B's path.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">This is actually a different problem, or subset of the or=
iginal issue.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">What should happen in that case? I might want to take act=
ion, I might not be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) i=
s and wants us to take action as they expect
 we will be seeing that traffic soon?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -0=
00&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&=
nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto A=
tto</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centur=
ylink.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF81433">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From=
:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]<br=
>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com" target=3D"_blank">nl7942@att.c=
om</a>; Schiel, John;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Don,<br>
<br>
(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)<br>
<br>
We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.<br>
<br>
&quot;Optionally, an implementation<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs con=
taining<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; only a subset of ASes.&nbsp; This could be useful, for example=
, with<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the =
same<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; administrative domain.&quot;<br>
<br>
This is not what you want?<br>
<br>
-J<br>
<br>
On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that s=
hould cover the case I was describing.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this =
concept with me, in case they have anything to add.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -0=
00&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&=
nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto A=
tto</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centur=
ylink.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF889414">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From=
:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@=
cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">I support the draft.</span><span style=3D=
"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should ac=
cept a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span><span style=
=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, t=
hen I don't see why not.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:</=
span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">The rules stated here are for default beh=
avior.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Local policy may allow flow specification=
s from other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: bla=
ck"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black=
"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;; COLOR: #7030a0">Jakob</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BOR=
DER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEF=
T: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"> =
Idr
<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt;</a> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder <a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank=
">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>; idr@ietf. org
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a=
><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work w=
e want to do, so support.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings=
/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf" target=3D"_blank">=
https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">That is almost always going to be between some set of sys=
tems not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not r=
eally IBGP peers.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of th=
e
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5575<=
/a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwar=
ding plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counte=
r intuitive as it is more likely to come from
 some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.</span><span style=3D"=
COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-ser=
if; COLOR: black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;w=
hen I think of IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there=
 are exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while
 this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that =
required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span><span s=
tyle=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Metric System &lt; &#43=
;000 &gt; -000&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Extra People's Terribly=
 Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
Purring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Pe=
ta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; G=
iga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; Femto Atto</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centur=
ylink.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span s=
tyle=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">From=
:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,sans-serif; COLOR: black"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of John Scudder [<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Hi All, </span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:5=
8 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">The authors have requested a workin=
g group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond wi=
th your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black">=
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">A quick update on the s=
tatus of this WGLC:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- All the authors have =
responded about IPR (thank you!).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- Three people who are =
not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">- Nobody has responded =
with other comments or opposition.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Three respondents is no=
t a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">The WGLC period is sche=
duled to end tomorrow.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black">--John</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><span =
style=3D"COLOR: black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink an=
d may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of t=
his communication is strictly prohibited
 and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, ple=
ase immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of=
 the communication and any attachments.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center"><span =
style=3D"COLOR: black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink an=
d may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of t=
his communication is strictly prohibited
 and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, ple=
ase immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of=
 the communication and any attachments.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">_________________________________________=
______</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Idr mailing list</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a=
></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3D"center">This c=
ommunication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or=
 privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly=
 prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
 have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the s=
ender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any a=
ttachments.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<center>This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain c=
onfidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communicati=
on is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this co=
mmunication in error, please immediately
 notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communicat=
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From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
To: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>, "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 20:42:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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This is the case that we all intend to work (I think), but only if ISPB exp=
licitly
allows that flowspec rule from ISPA. It would not happen by default.
Now to find the words...

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 1:36 PM
To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalca=
ide@cisco.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org=
>
Cc: nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>; draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06








Customer M

|              |

|              |

|              |

ISPA------ISPB



ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and triggers a flowspec ru=
le internally and to ISPB.

But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and receives BGP anno=
uncements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes that would be pr=
eferred internally), thus the flowspec check would fail right?








Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: nl7942@att.com<mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or reword your scenario?

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@Centu=
ryLink.com>>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM
To: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalcaide@cisco.com<mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com>>=
; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com<mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>>; John Sc=
udder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.or=
g<mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
Cc: nl7942@att.com<mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centur=
ylink.com<mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com>>; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec=
-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.

But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the past (fa=
r left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?

As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a better pat=
h it should work.



Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both have=
 routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network wouldn't it b=
e blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is B's path.

This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.



What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might not b=
e seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and wants us to =
take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?








Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
To: Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: nl7942@att.com<mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Don,

(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)

We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.

"Optionally, an implementation
   could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
   only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with
   networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
   administrative domain."

This is not what you want?

-J

On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:

That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the ca=
se I was describing.

All the other BGP security issues would still apply.

Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me, i=
n case they have anything to add.




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com<mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
To: Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
I support the draft.

Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for =
traffic going to AS3?
If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
The rules stated here are for default behavior.
Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be =
accepted.

Thanks,
Jakob

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of =
Smith, Donald
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net><mailto:jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <=
idr@ietf..org><mailto:idr@ietf..org>
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06


This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so s=
upport.



https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_O=
perationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf



That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop a=
way, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.



" It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575<https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
   validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
   data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."



While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane, forwar=
d it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive as it =
is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the fi=
lter.



Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of IBGP, IB=
GP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but that is=
 kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBG=
P between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct =
connections?)




Metric System < +000 > -000
Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For     A=
ges
Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico    Fe=
mto Atto
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com<mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf of =
John Scudder [jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
To: idr@ietf. org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flow=
spec-oid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
Hi All,

On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@junip=
er.net>> wrote:

The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments before Friday, May 11.

A quick update on the status of this WGLC:

- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supp=
orting publication.
- Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.

Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if others=
 would chime in.

The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.

Thanks,

--John
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">This is the case that we all intend to work =
(I think), but only if ISPB explicitly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">allows that flowspec rule from ISPA. It woul=
d not happen by default.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Now to find the words...<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Smith, Donald &lt;Donald.Smith=
@CenturyLink.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) &lt;jheitz@cisco.com&gt;; Juan Alcaide (jal=
caide) &lt;jalcaide@cisco.com&gt;; John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;; id=
r@ietf. org &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John &lt;John.Schiel@centurylink.com&gt;=
; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Customer M<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">ISPA------ISPB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and trigger=
s a flowspec rule internally and to ISPB.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and re=
ceives BGP announcements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes t=
hat would be preferred internally), thus the
 flowspec check would fail right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbs=
p;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF503321">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. =
org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com">nl7942@att.com</a>; Schiel, Jo=
hn; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or rewo=
rd your scenario?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Smith,=
 Donald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com">Donald.Smith@Ce=
nturyLink.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com=
">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jh=
eitz@cisco.com">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&gt;; John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jgs@juniper.net">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;; idr@ietf. org
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com">nl7942@att.com</a>; Schiel, Jo=
hn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com">John.Schiel@centuryli=
nk.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org">draft-ietf-idr-=
bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS =
in the past (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?</span><=
span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't ha=
ve a better path it should work.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and =
ISP B both have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that networ=
k wouldn't it be blocked as the best path to
 the customer inside of B is B's path.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This is actually a different problem, or subset of the origi=
nal issue.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">What should happen in that case? I might want to take action=
, I might not be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is a=
nd wants us to take action as they expect we
 will be seeing that traffic soon?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&=
nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbs=
p;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto=
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF81433">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com" target=3D"_blank">nl7942@att.c=
om</a>; Schiel, John;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Don,<br>
<br>
(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)<br>
<br>
We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.<br>
<br>
&quot;Optionally, an implementation<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs con=
taining<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; only a subset of ASes.&nbsp; This could be useful, for example=
, with<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the =
same<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; administrative domain.&quot;<br>
<br>
This is not what you want?<br>
<br>
-J<br>
<br>
On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that shou=
ld cover the case I was describing.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this con=
cept with me, in case they have anything to add.</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;000 &gt; -000&=
nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good Meals&nbs=
p;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Purring For&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peta&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Giga&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Femto Atto=
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF889414">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">I support the draft.</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accep=
t a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then=
 I don't see why not.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">The rules stated here are for default behavi=
or.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Local policy may allow flow specifications f=
rom other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030A0">Jakob</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Idr
<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt;</a> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder <a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank=
">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>; idr@ietf. org
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a=
><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we w=
ant to do, so support.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NA=
NOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Oper=
ationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That is almost always going to be between some set of system=
s not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not real=
ly IBGP peers.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5575<=
/a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwardin=
g plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter i=
ntuitive as it is more likely to come from some
 BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,&nbsp;when=
 I think of IBGP,&nbsp;IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there ar=
e exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while this
 is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that requi=
red? Can't we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Metric System &lt; &#43;=
000 &gt; -000&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Extra People's Terribly =
Good Meals&nbsp;Kept&nbsp;mY uNCLE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ned&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;P=
urring For&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Exa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Pet=
a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tera&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Gi=
ga&nbsp;&nbsp; Mega&nbsp; Kilo milli Micro(u)&nbsp;Nano Pico&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Femto Atto<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of John Scudder [<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi All, <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58=
 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The authors have requested a working g=
roup last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with =
your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">A quick update on the st=
atus of this WGLC:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- All the authors have r=
esponded about IPR (thank you!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Three people who are n=
ot authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Nobody has responded w=
ith other comments or opposition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Three respondents is not=
 a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">The WGLC period is sched=
uled to end tomorrow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">--John<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">__________________________________________=
_____<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Idr mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a>=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">This co=
mmunication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or =
privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly =
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you
 have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the s=
ender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any a=
ttachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: John Schiel <jschiel@flowtools.net>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 15:44:01 -0600
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To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>,  "Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)" <jalcaide@cisco.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>,  "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Don's example makes sense to me. Ideally CustM is getting traffic both from
ISPA and ISPB. If ISPA identifies and stops the traffic from going to
CustM, then sends a rule to B, ISPB may or may not accept the rule and the
attack would still go over the connection from ISPB to CustM based on
preferred path regardless of rule acceptance. If the metrics are different
and the preferred path is now from ISPB to ISPA and then to CustM, then the
importance of accepting the rule becomes more important.

I don't see any current issues with this WG.

--John


On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>
wrote:

> This is the case that we all intend to work (I think), but only if ISPB
> explicitly
>
> allows that flowspec rule from ISPA. It would not happen by default.
>
> Now to find the words...
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jakob
>
>
>
> *From:* Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 1:36 PM
> *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com>; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <
> jalcaide@cisco.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <
> idr@ietf.org>
>
> *Cc:* nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Customer M
>
> |              |
>
> |              |
>
> |              |
>
> ISPA------ISPB
>
>
>
> ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and triggers a flowspec
> rule internally and to ISPB.
>
> But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and receives BGP
> announcements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes that would
> be preferred internally), thus the flowspec check would fail right?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
>
> Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For
> Ages
>
> Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico
> Femto Atto
>
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM
> *To:* Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-
> oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or reword your scenario?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jakob
>
>
>
> *From:* Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM
> *To:* Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalcaide@cisco.com>; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <
> jheitz@cisco.com>; John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org <
> idr@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>
>
> I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.
>
> But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the past
> (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?
>
> As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a better
> path it should work.
>
>
>
> Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B both
> have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that network wouldn't
> it be blocked as the best path to the customer inside of B is B's path.
>
> This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.
>
>
>
> What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I might not
> be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is and wants us to
> take action as they expect we will be seeing that traffic soon?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
>
> Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For
> Ages
>
> Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico
> Femto Atto
>
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
> *To:* Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* nl7942@att.com; Schiel, John; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-
> oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> Don,
>
> (just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect
> extended-community draft)
>
> We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.
>
> "Optionally, an implementation
>    could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs containing
>    only a subset of ASes.  This could be useful, for example, with
>    networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
>    administrative domain."
>
> This is not what you want?
>
> -J
>
> On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:
>
> That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should cover the
> case I was describing.
>
> All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
>
> Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this concept with me,
> in case they have anything to add.
>
>
>
>
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
>
> Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For
> Ages
>
> Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico
> Femto Atto
>
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com <jheitz@cisco..com>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
> *To:* Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> I support the draft.
>
>
>
> Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule from AS2 for
> traffic going to AS3?
>
> If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
>
> Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
>
> The rules stated here are for default behavior.
>
> Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP neighbors to be
> accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jakob
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> <idr-bounces@ietf.org> * On Behalf Of *Smith,
> Donald
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
> *To:* John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> <jgs@juniper.net>; idr@ietf. org
> <idr@ietf..org> <idr@ietf..org>
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>
>
> This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we want to do, so
> support.
>
>
>
> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_
> Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf
>
>
>
> That is almost always going to be between some set of systems not one hop
> away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not really IBGP peers.
>
>
>
> " It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
>    validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within the
>    data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."
>
>
>
> While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding plane,
> forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter intuitive
> as it is more likely to come from some BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting
> the filter.
>
>
>
> Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP, when I think of
> IBGP, IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there are exceptions) but
> that is kind of the meaning, while this is mostly between peers (whom could
> do IBGP between them but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP
> direct connections?)
>
>
>
>
>
> Metric System < +000 > -000
>
> Extra People's Terribly Good Meals Kept mY uNCLE    Ned   Purring For
> Ages
>
> Exa   Peta        Tera     Giga   Mega  Kilo milli Micro(u) Nano Pico
> Femto Atto
>
> Donald.Smith@centurylink.com
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of John Scudder [
> jgs@juniper.net]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
> *To:* idr@ietf. org
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> The authors have requested a working group last call for
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with your comments
> before Friday, May 11.
>
>
>
> A quick update on the status of this WGLC:
>
>
>
> - All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
>
> - Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded
> supporting publication.
>
> - Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.
>
>
>
> Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be helpful if
> others would chime in.
>
>
>
> The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> --John
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender
> by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any
> attachments.
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender
> by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any
> attachments.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Idr mailing list
>
> Idr@ietf.org
>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender
> by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any
> attachments.
>
> This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain
> confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
> communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender
> by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any
> attachments.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
>

--000000000000c81a5f056bf50849
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Don&#39;s example makes sense to me. Ideally CustM is gett=
ing traffic both from ISPA and ISPB. If ISPA identifies and stops the traff=
ic from going to CustM, then sends a rule to B, ISPB may or may not accept =
the rule and the attack would still go over the connection from ISPB to Cus=
tM based on preferred path regardless of rule acceptance. If the metrics ar=
e different and the preferred path is now from ISPB to ISPA and then to Cus=
tM, then the importance of accepting the rule becomes more important.<div><=
br></div><div>I don&#39;t see any current issues with this WG.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>--John=C2=A0</div><div>

<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-3628015259887510094WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">This is the case that we all intend to work =
(I think), but only if ISPB explicitly<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">allows that flowspec rule from ISPA. It woul=
d not happen by default.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Now to find the words...<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Jakob<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Smith, Donald &lt;Donald.Smith=
@CenturyLink.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;; John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jg=
s@juniper.net</a>&gt;; idr@ietf. org &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com" target=3D"_blank">nl7942@att.c=
om</a>; Schiel, John &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">John.Schiel@centurylink.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft=
-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-f=
lowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Customer M<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0|<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">ISPA------ISPB<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and trigger=
s a flowspec rule internally and to ISPB.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and re=
ceives BGP announcements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes t=
hat would be preferred internally), thus the
 flowspec check would fail right?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; +000 &gt; -000=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People&#39;s Terribly Good Meals=
=C2=A0Kept=C2=A0mY uNCLE=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ned=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Purring For=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ages<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Peta=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tera=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Giga=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Mega=C2=A0 Kilo milli Micro(u)=C2=A0Nano Pico=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Femto A=
tto<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"m_-3628015259887510094divRpF503321">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. =
org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com" target=3D"_blank">nl7942@att.c=
om</a>; Schiel, John; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or rewo=
rd your scenario?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Jakob</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Smith,=
 Donald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;; John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jg=
s@juniper.net</a>&gt;; idr@ietf. org
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com" target=3D"_blank">nl7942@att.c=
om</a>; Schiel, John &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">John.Schiel@centurylink.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS =
in the past (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?</span><=
span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don&#39;=
t have a better path it should work.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and =
ISP B both have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that networ=
k wouldn&#39;t it be blocked as the best path to
 the customer inside of B is B&#39;s path.</span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This is actually a different problem, or subset of the origi=
nal issue.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">What should happen in that case? I might want to take action=
, I might not be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A) is a=
nd wants us to take action as they expect we
 will be seeing that traffic soon?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; +000 &gt; -000=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People&#39;s Terribly Good Meals=
=C2=A0Kept=C2=A0mY uNCLE=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ned=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Purring For=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ages</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Peta=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tera=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Giga=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Mega=C2=A0 Kilo milli Micro(u)=C2=A0Nano Pico=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Femto A=
tto</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"m_-3628015259887510094divRpF81433">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [<a href=3D"mailto:jalcaide@=
cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:nl7942@att.com" target=3D"_blank">nl7942@att.c=
om</a>; Schiel, John;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Don,<br>
<br>
(just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect extended-=
community draft)<br>
<br>
We already thought about it and added a &#39;clause&#39; in the last revisi=
on.<br>
<br>
&quot;Optionally, an implementation<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs con=
taining<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 only a subset of ASes.=C2=A0 This could be useful, for example=
, with<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the =
same<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 administrative domain.&quot;<br>
<br>
This is not what you want?<br>
<br>
-J<br>
<br>
On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that shou=
ld cover the case I was describing.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Cc&#39;ing the two architects that have been working on this=
 concept with me, in case they have anything to add.</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; +000 &gt; -000=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People&#39;s Terribly Good Meals=
=C2=A0Kept=C2=A0mY uNCLE=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ned=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Purring For=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ages</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Se=
goe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Exa=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Peta=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tera=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Giga=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Mega=C2=A0 Kilo milli Micro(u)=C2=A0Nano Pico=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Femto A=
tto</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"m_-3628015259887510094divRpF889414">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a href=3D"mailto:jheitz@cisco=
..com" target=3D"_blank">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">I support the draft.</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accep=
t a flowspec rule from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then=
 I don&#39;t see why not.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Maybe we can add text to the effect of:</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">The rules stated here are for default behavi=
or.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Local policy may allow flow specifications f=
rom other EBGP neighbors to be accepted.</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Thanks,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Jakob</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Idr
<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt;</a> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Smith, Donald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Scudder <a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank=
">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>; idr@ietf. org
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a=
><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we w=
ant to do, so support.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><a href=3D"https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NA=
NOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://pc.nanog.org/static/<wbr>published/meetings/NANOG71/<wbr>1447/20171003=
_Levy_<wbr>Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span><span style=3D"color:black=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">That is almost always going to be between some set of system=
s not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane, probably not real=
ly IBGP peers.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">&quot; It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575" target=3D"_blank">RFC 5575<=
/a><br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not within=
 the<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0 data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs.&=
quot;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwardin=
g plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to seems counter i=
ntuitive as it is more likely to come from some
 BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black">Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,=C2=A0when=
 I think of IBGP,=C2=A0IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know there ar=
e exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while this
 is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them but is that requi=
red? Can&#39;t we validate without IBGP direct connections?)</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Metric System &lt; +000 =
&gt; -000=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Extra People&#39;s Terri=
bly Good Meals=C2=A0Kept=C2=A0mY uNCLE=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ned=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0Purring For=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ages<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Exa=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pet=
a=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tera=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Gi=
ga=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mega=C2=A0 Kilo milli Micro(u)=C2=A0Nano Pico=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Femto Atto<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Donald.Smith@centuryli=
nk.com" target=3D"_blank">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"m_-3628015259887510094divRpF448294">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
 on behalf of John Scudder [<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf. org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi All, <u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58=
 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The authors have requested a working g=
roup last call for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. Please respond =
with your comments before Friday, May 11.</span><span style=3D"color:black"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">A quick update on the st=
atus of this WGLC:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- All the authors have r=
esponded about IPR (thank you!).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Three people who are n=
ot authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have responded supporting publication.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">- Nobody has responded w=
ith other comments or opposition.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Three respondents is not=
 a very large number; it would be helpful if others would chime in.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">The WGLC period is sched=
uled to end tomorrow.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">--John<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"color:=
black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">______________________________<wbr>_______=
__________<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Idr mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></pre=
>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/id=
r</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">This communication is the property of CenturyLink and =
may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of thi=
s communication is strictly prohibited and
 may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please =
immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the=
 communication and any attachments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">This co=
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To: John Schiel <jschiel@flowtools.net>, "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Cc: "Smith, Donald" <Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, "nl7942@att.com" <nl7942@att.com>, "Schiel, John" <John.Schiel@centurylink.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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If trafic goes ISPB->ISPA->Customer M, then ISPB will accept the FS rule 
from ISPA (this is just RFC5575)
If traffic goes ISPB->Customer M, then ISPB needs to trust the FS rule 
from ISPA. This is what ISPB needs to configure and this is the wording 
we are discussing

-J


On 5/11/2018 11:44 PM, John Schiel wrote:
> Don's example makes sense to me. Ideally CustM is getting traffic both 
> from ISPA and ISPB. If ISPA identifies and stops the traffic from 
> going to CustM, then sends a rule to B, ISPB may or may not accept the 
> rule and the attack would still go over the connection from ISPB to 
> CustM based on preferred path regardless of rule acceptance. If the 
> metrics are different and the preferred path is now from ISPB to ISPA 
> and then to CustM, then the importance of accepting the rule becomes 
> more important.
>
> I don't see any current issues with this WG.
>
> --John
>
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Jakob Heitz (jheitz) 
> <jheitz@cisco.com <mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>> wrote:
>
>     This is the case that we all intend to work (I think), but only if
>     ISPB explicitly
>
>     allows that flowspec rule from ISPA. It would not happen by default.
>
>     Now to find the words...
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Jakob
>
>     *From:*Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>
>     *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 1:36 PM
>     *To:* Jakob Heitz (jheitz) <jheitz@cisco.com
>     <mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>>; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)
>     <jalcaide@cisco.com <mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com>>; John Scudder
>     <jgs@juniper.net <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>>; idr@ietf. org
>     <idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
>
>
>     *Cc:* nl7942@att.com <mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John
>     <John.Schiel@centurylink.com
>     <mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com>>;
>     draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     Customer M
>
>     | |
>
>     |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
>
>     | |
>
>     ISPA------ISPB
>
>     ISPA sees a large DDoS attack against customer M and triggers a
>     flowspec rule internally and to ISPB.
>
>     But ISPB has customer M connections too (one or more) and receives
>     BGP announcements from them (or has a static or ... but has routes
>     that would be preferred internally), thus the flowspec check would
>     fail right?
>
>     Metric System < +000 > -000
>
>     Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLEÂ Â Â  NedÂ Â Â Purring
>     ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages
>
>     ExaÂ Â Â Peta TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â 
>     Femto Atto
>
>     Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com
>     <mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>]
>     *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM
>     *To:* Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide (jalcaide); John Scudder;
>     idr@ietf. org
>     *Cc:* nl7942@att.com <mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John;
>     draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     Sorry Donald, Can you draw a diagram or reword your scenario?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Jakob
>
>     *From:*Smith, Donald <Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com
>     <mailto:Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com>>
>     *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 12:30 PM
>     *To:* Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) <jalcaide@cisco.com
>     <mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com>>; Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
>     <jheitz@cisco.com <mailto:jheitz@cisco.com>>; John Scudder
>     <jgs@juniper.net <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>>; idr@ietf. org
>     <idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>>
>     *Cc:* nl7942@att.com <mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John
>     <John.Schiel@centurylink.com
>     <mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com>>;
>     draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     I am not entirely sure if that works here or not.
>
>     But I think with that you could show some AS as the last AS in the
>     past (far left) and maybe not show the original customer AS?
>
>     As long as your advertising that space to me, and I don't have a
>     better path it should work.
>
>     Now what happens when a customer is a customer of ISP A and ISP B
>     both have routes to it, if A advertises flowspec to B for that
>     network wouldn't it be blocked as the best path to the customer
>     inside of B is B's path.
>
>     This is actually a different problem, or subset of the original issue.
>
>     What should happen in that case? I might want to take action, I
>     might not be seeing a huge flood, while the original announcer (A)
>     is and wants us to take action as they expect we will be seeing
>     that traffic soon?
>
>     Metric System < +000 > -000
>
>     Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLE NedÂ Â Â Purring
>     ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages
>
>     ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â  TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  Mega Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano
>     PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto
>
>     Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [jalcaide@cisco.com
>     <mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com>]
>     *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2018 12:57 PM
>     *To:* Smith, Donald; Jakob Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
>     *Cc:* nl7942@att.com <mailto:nl7942@att.com>; Schiel, John;
>     draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>     <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>     Don,
>
>     (just to be clear, this has nothing to directly with the redirect
>     extended-community draft)
>
>     We already thought about it and added a 'clause' in the last revision.
>
>     "Optionally, an implementation
>     Â Â  could be configured to allow only flow specification NLRIs
>     containing
>     Â Â  only a subset of ASes.Â  This could be useful, for example, with
>     Â Â  networks that consist of multiple ASes that operate under the same
>     Â Â  administrative domain."
>
>     This is not what you want?
>
>     -J
>
>     On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith, Donald wrote:
>
>         That would work of course MAY would be caps :) But that should
>         cover the case I was describing.
>
>         All the other BGP security issues would still apply.
>
>         Cc'ing the two architects that have been working on this
>         concept with me, in case they have anything to add.
>
>         Metric System < +000 > -000
>
>         Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLE NedÂ Â Â Purring
>         ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages
>
>         ExaÂ Â Â Peta TeraÂ Â Â Â  Giga MegaÂ  Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano
>         PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto
>
>         Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:*Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [jheitz@cisco.com
>         <mailto:jheitz@cisco..com>]
>         *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:39 PM
>         *To:* Smith, Donald; John Scudder; idr@ietf. org
>         *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>         *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>         I support the draft.
>
>         Donald, are you saying that AS1 should accept a flowspec rule
>         from AS2 for traffic going to AS3?
>
>         If AS1 can trust the flowspec from AS2, then I don't see why not.
>
>         Maybe we can add text to the effect of:
>
>         The rules stated here are for default behavior.
>
>         Local policy may allow flow specifications from other EBGP
>         neighbors to be accepted.
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         Jakob
>
>         *From:*Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>
>         <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Smith, Donald
>         *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:58 AM
>         *To:* John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>;
>         idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf..org> <mailto:idr@ietf..org>
>         *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>         *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>         This supports some of the bi-lateral, ddos-peering work we
>         want to do, so support.
>
>         https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf
>         <https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf>
>
>         That is almost always going to be between some set of systems
>         not one hop away, not directly in the forwarding plane,
>         probably not really IBGP peers.
>
>         " It thus becomes necessary to modify step (a) of the RFC 5575
>         <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575>
>         Â Â  validation procedure such that an IBGP peer that is not
>         within the
>         Â Â  data forwarding plane may originate flow specification NLRIs."
>
>         While you could have the IBGP peer directly in the forwarding
>         plane, forward it like a route reflector, requiring it to
>         seems counter intuitive as it is more likely to come from some
>         BGP speaking tool in ISP requesting the filter.
>
>         Next lots of references to IBGP and a few to EBGP,Â when I
>         think of IBGP,Â IBGP is internal to a single AS (yes I know
>         there are exceptions) but that is kind of the meaning, while
>         this is mostly between peers (whom could do IBGP between them
>         but is that required? Can't we validate without IBGP direct
>         connections?)
>
>         Metric System < +000 > -000
>
>         Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLE NedÂ Â Â Purring
>         ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages
>
>         ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â  TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli
>         Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto
>
>         Donald.Smith@centurylink.com <mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         *From:*Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org
>         <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>] on behalf of John Scudder
>         [jgs@juniper.net <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>]
>         *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2018 12:28 PM
>         *To:* idr@ietf. org
>         *Cc:* draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org
>         <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
>         *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
>
>         Hi All,
>
>             On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net
>             <mailto:jgs@juniper.net>> wrote:
>
>             The authors have requested a working group last call for
>             draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. Please respond with
>             your comments before Friday, May 11.
>
>         A quick update on the status of this WGLC:
>
>         - All the authors have responded about IPR (thank you!).
>
>         - Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam, Keyur) have
>         responded supporting publication.
>
>         - Nobody has responded with other comments or opposition.
>
>         Three respondents is not a very large number; it would be
>         helpful if others would chime in.
>
>         The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         --John
>
>         This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may
>         contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized
>         use of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be
>         unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
>         please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and
>         destroy all copies of the communication and any attachments.
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>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">If trafic goes
      ISPB-&gt;ISPA-&gt;Customer M, then ISPB will accept the FS rule
      from ISPA (this is just RFC5575)<br>
      If traffic goes ISPB-&gt;Customer M, then ISPB needs to trust the
      FS rule from ISPA. This is what ISPB needs to configure and this
      is the wording we are discussing<br>
      <br>
      -J<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 5/11/2018 11:44 PM, John Schiel wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABmZaCMZf9i33EuStxgboELi4Ap_UsGFQoRdaJNfn4yTY3YK4A@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Don's example makes sense to me. Ideally CustM is
        getting traffic both from ISPA and ISPB. If ISPA identifies and
        stops the traffic from going to CustM, then sends a rule to B,
        ISPB may or may not accept the rule and the attack would still
        go over the connection from ISPB to CustM based on preferred
        path regardless of rule acceptance. If the metrics are different
        and the preferred path is now from ISPB to ISPA and then to
        CustM, then the importance of accepting the rule becomes more
        important.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I don't see any current issues with this WG.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>--JohnÂ </div>
        <div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Jakob
          Heitz (jheitz) <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
              href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com" target="_blank"
              moz-do-not-send="true">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
              <div class="m_-3628015259887510094WordSection1">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;;color:#7030a0">This is the case that we
                    all intend to work (I think), but only if ISPB
                    explicitly</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;;color:#7030a0">allows that flowspec rule
                    from ISPA. It would not happen by default.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Now to find the words...</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Â </span></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Thanks,</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                      New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Jakob</span></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Â </span></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                        Smith, Donald
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com">&lt;Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com&gt;</a>
                        <br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:36 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz (jheitz) &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
                        Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
                        John Scudder &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
                        idr@ietf. org &lt;<a href="mailto:idr@ietf.org"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div class="h5"><br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:nl7942@att.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nl7942@att.com</a>;
                        Schiel, John &lt;<a
                          href="mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">John.Schiel@centurylink.com</a>&gt;;
                        <a
                          href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for
                        draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
                    <div>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Customer
                          M</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                          |</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                          |</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ISPA------ISPB</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ISPA
                          sees a large DDoS attack against customer M
                          and triggers a flowspec rule internally and to
                          ISPB.</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">But
                          ISPB has customer M connections too (one or
                          more) and receives BGP announcements from them
                          (or has a static or ... but has routes that
                          would be preferred internally), thus the
                          flowspec check would fail right?</span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                      <div>
                        <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Â </span></p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                    UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric
                                    System &lt; +000 &gt; -000Â </span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                    UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra
                                    People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY
                                    uNCLEÂ Â Â  NedÂ Â Â Purring ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                    UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                                    TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli
                                    Micro(u)Â Nano PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto</span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com" target="_blank"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                          align="center"><span style="color:black">
                            <hr size="2" align="center" width="100%">
                          </span></div>
                        <div id="m_-3628015259887510094divRpF503321">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                              Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a
                                href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018 1:39 PM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Juan Alcaide
                              (jalcaide); John Scudder; idr@ietf. org<br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                href="mailto:nl7942@att.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nl7942@att.com</a>;
                              Schiel, John; <a
                                href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
                                draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for
                              draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</span><span
                              style="color:black"></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Sorry Donald,
                                Can you draw a diagram or reword your
                                scenario?</span><span
                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                  New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Thanks,</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                  New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Jakob</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                            <div>
                              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                    Smith, Donald &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@CenturyLink.com</a>&gt;
                                    <br>
                                    <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018
                                    12:30 PM<br>
                                    <b>To:</b> Juan Alcaide (jalcaide)
                                    &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
                                    Jakob Heitz (jheitz) &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:jheitz@cisco.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">jheitz@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
                                    John Scudder &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt;;
                                    idr@ietf. org &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:idr@ietf.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
                                    <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                      href="mailto:nl7942@att.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">nl7942@att.com</a>;
                                    Schiel, John &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:John.Schiel@centurylink.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">John.Schiel@centurylink.com</a>&gt;;
                                    <a
                                      href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                    <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WGLC for
                                    draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</span><span
                                    style="color:black"></span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">I
                                  am not entirely sure if that works
                                  here or not.</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">But
                                  I think with that you could show some
                                  AS as the last AS in the past (far
                                  left) and maybe not show the original
                                  customer AS?</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">As
                                  long as your advertising that space to
                                  me, and I don't have a better path it
                                  should work.</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Now
                                  what happens when a customer is a
                                  customer of ISP A and ISP B both have
                                  routes to it, if A advertises flowspec
                                  to B for that network wouldn't it be
                                  blocked as the best path to the
                                  customer inside of B is B's path.</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This
                                  is actually a different problem, or
                                  subset of the original issue.</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">What
                                  should happen in that case? I might
                                  want to take action, I might not be
                                  seeing a huge flood, while the
                                  original announcer (A) is and wants us
                                  to take action as they expect we will
                                  be seeing that traffic soon?</span><span
                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                              <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                              <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                              <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                              <div>
                                <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric System &lt; +000 &gt; -000Â </span><span
                                            style="color:black"></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good
                                            MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLEÂ Â Â 
                                            NedÂ Â Â Purring ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages</span><span
                                            style="color:black"></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â  TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ 
                                            Kilo milli Micro(u)Â Nano
                                            PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto</span><span
                                            style="color:black"></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com" target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span
                                        style="color:black"></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="text-align:center"
                                  align="center"><span
                                    style="color:black">
                                    <hr size="2" align="center"
                                      width="100%">
                                  </span></div>
                                <div
                                  id="m_-3628015259887510094divRpF81433">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                      Juan Alcaide (jalcaide) [<a
                                        href="mailto:jalcaide@cisco.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">jalcaide@cisco.com</a>]<br>
                                      <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 11, 2018
                                      12:57 PM<br>
                                      <b>To:</b> Smith, Donald; Jakob
                                      Heitz (jheitz); John Scudder;
                                      idr@ietf. org<br>
                                      <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                        href="mailto:nl7942@att.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">nl7942@att.com</a>;
                                      Schiel, John;
                                      <a
                                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WGLC for
                                      draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</span><span
                                      style="color:black"></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="color:black">Don,<br>
                                        <br>
                                        (just to be clear, this has
                                        nothing to directly with the
                                        redirect extended-community
                                        draft)<br>
                                        <br>
                                        We already thought about it and
                                        added a 'clause' in the last
                                        revision.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        "Optionally, an implementation<br>
                                        Â Â  could be configured to allow
                                        only flow specification NLRIs
                                        containing<br>
                                        Â Â  only a subset of ASes.Â  This
                                        could be useful, for example,
                                        with<br>
                                        Â Â  networks that consist of
                                        multiple ASes that operate under
                                        the same<br>
                                        Â Â  administrative domain."<br>
                                        <br>
                                        This is not what you want?<br>
                                        <br>
                                        -J<br>
                                        <br>
                                        On 5/11/2018 4:50 PM, Smith,
                                        Donald wrote:</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote
                                    style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">That
                                          would work of course MAY would
                                          be caps :) But that should
                                          cover the case I was
                                          describing.</span><span
                                          style="color:black"></span></p>
                                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">All
                                          the other BGP security issues
                                          would still apply.
                                        </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
                                      <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Cc'ing
                                          the two architects that have
                                          been working on this concept
                                          with me, in case they have
                                          anything to add.</span><span
                                          style="color:black"></span></p>
                                      <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                                    UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Metric
                                                    System &lt; +000
                                                    &gt; -000Â </span><span
                                                    style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                                    UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Extra
                                                    People's Terribly
                                                    Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY
                                                    uNCLEÂ Â Â 
                                                    NedÂ Â Â Purring
                                                    ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages</span><span
                                                    style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe
                                                    UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â 
                                                    TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â 
                                                    MegaÂ  Kilo milli
                                                    Micro(u)Â Nano
                                                    PicoÂ Â Â  Femto Atto</span><span
                                                    style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com" target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="text-align:center"
                                          align="center"><span
                                            style="color:black">
                                            <hr size="2" align="center"
                                              width="100%">
                                          </span></div>
                                        <div
                                          id="m_-3628015259887510094divRpF889414">
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                              Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [<a
                                                href="mailto:jheitz@cisco..com"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">jheitz@cisco.com</a>]<br>
                                              <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May
                                              10, 2018 11:39 PM<br>
                                              <b>To:</b> Smith, Donald;
                                              John Scudder; idr@ietf.
                                              org<br>
                                              <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                                href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                              <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr]
                                              WGLC for
                                              draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</span><span
                                              style="color:black"></span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">I
                                                support the draft.</span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Donald,
                                                are you saying that AS1
                                                should accept a flowspec
                                                rule from AS2 for
                                                traffic going to AS3?</span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">If
                                                AS1 can trust the
                                                flowspec from AS2, then
                                                I don't see why not.</span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Maybe
                                                we can add text to the
                                                effect of:</span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">The
                                                rules stated here are
                                                for default behavior.</span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Local
                                                policy may allow flow
                                                specifications from
                                                other EBGP neighbors to
                                                be accepted.</span><span
                                                style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                  New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Thanks,</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                                                  New&quot;;color:#7030a0">Jakob</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <div
                                                style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                #e1e1e1
                                                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
                                                0in 0in">
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                                    Idr
                                                    <a
                                                      href="mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
                                                    <b>
                                                      On Behalf Of </b>Smith,
                                                    Donald<br>
                                                    <b>Sent:</b>
                                                    Thursday, May 10,
                                                    2018 11:58 AM<br>
                                                    <b>To:</b> John
                                                    Scudder <a
                                                      href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;</a>;
                                                    idr@ietf. org
                                                    <a
                                                      href="mailto:idr@ietf..org"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;idr@ietf..org&gt;</a><br>
                                                    <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                                      href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                                    <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                                    [Idr] WGLC for
                                                    draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</span><span
                                                    style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This
                                                  supports some of the
                                                  bi-lateral,
                                                  ddos-peering work we
                                                  want to do, so
                                                  support.</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p><span
                                                  style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1447/20171003_Levy_Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://pc.nanog.org/static/<wbr>published/meetings/NANOG71/<wbr>1447/20171003_Levy_<wbr>Operationalizing_Isp_v2.pdf</a></span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p><span
                                                  style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">That
                                                  is almost always going
                                                  to be between some set
                                                  of systems not one hop
                                                  away, not directly in
                                                  the forwarding plane,
                                                  probably not really
                                                  IBGP peers.</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p><span
                                                  style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">"
                                                  It thus becomes
                                                  necessary to modify
                                                  step (a) of the
                                                  <a
                                                    href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5575"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true">RFC
                                                    5575</a><br>
                                                  Â Â  validation
                                                  procedure such that an
                                                  IBGP peer that is not
                                                  within the<br>
                                                  Â Â  data forwarding
                                                  plane may originate
                                                  flow specification
                                                  NLRIs."</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p><span
                                                  style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">While
                                                  you could have the
                                                  IBGP peer directly in
                                                  the forwarding plane,
                                                  forward it like a
                                                  route reflector,
                                                  requiring it to seems
                                                  counter intuitive as
                                                  it is more likely to
                                                  come from some BGP
                                                  speaking tool in ISP
                                                  requesting the filter.</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p><span
                                                  style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Next
                                                  lots of references to
                                                  IBGP and a few to
                                                  EBGP,Â when I think of
                                                  IBGP,Â IBGP is internal
                                                  to a single AS (yes I
                                                  know there are
                                                  exceptions) but that
                                                  is kind of the
                                                  meaning, while this is
                                                  mostly between peers
                                                  (whom could do IBGP
                                                  between them but is
                                                  that required? Can't
                                                  we validate without
                                                  IBGP direct
                                                  connections?)</span><span
                                                  style="color:black"></span></p>
                                              <p><span
                                                  style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p><span
                                                    style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Metric System &lt; +000 &gt; -000Â </span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Extra People's Terribly Good MealsÂ KeptÂ mY uNCLEÂ Â Â 
                                                          NedÂ Â Â Purring
                                                          ForÂ Â Â Â  Ages</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">ExaÂ Â Â PetaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â  TeraÂ Â Â Â  GigaÂ Â  MegaÂ  Kilo milli
                                                          Micro(u)Â Nano
                                                          PicoÂ Â Â  Femto
                                                          Atto</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a
href="mailto:Donald.Smith@centurylink.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">Donald.Smith@centurylink.com</a></span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div class="MsoNormal"
                                                  style="text-align:center"
                                                  align="center"><span
                                                    style="color:black">
                                                    <hr size="2"
                                                      align="center"
                                                      width="100%">
                                                  </span></div>
                                                <div
                                                  id="m_-3628015259887510094divRpF448294">
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">
                                                      Idr [<a
                                                        href="mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] on behalf of John
                                                      Scudder [<a
                                                        href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>]<br>
                                                      <b>Sent:</b>
                                                      Thursday, May 10,
                                                      2018 12:28 PM<br>
                                                      <b>To:</b>
                                                      idr@ietf. org<br>
                                                      <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                                        href="mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a><br>
                                                      <b>Subject:</b>
                                                      Re: [Idr] WGLC for
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Hi All, </span></p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">On Apr 26, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Scudder &lt;<a
                                                          href="mailto:jgs@juniper.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jgs@juniper.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The
                                                          authors have
                                                          requested a
                                                          working group
                                                          last call for
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. Please respond with your
                                                          comments
                                                          before Friday,
                                                          May 11.</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">A quick update on the status of this WGLC:</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">- All the authors have responded about IPR (thank
                                                        you!).</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">- Three people who are not authors (Acee, Shyam,
                                                        Keyur) have
                                                        responded
                                                        supporting
                                                        publication.</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">- Nobody has responded with other comments or
                                                        opposition.</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Three respondents is not a very large number; it
                                                        would be helpful
                                                        if others would
                                                        chime in.</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">The WGLC period is scheduled to end tomorrow.</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Thanks,</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">--John</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                                              style="text-align:center"
                                              align="center"><span
                                                style="color:black">This
                                                communication is the
                                                property of CenturyLink
                                                and may contain
                                                confidential or
                                                privileged information.
                                                Unauthorized use of this
                                                communication is
                                                strictly prohibited and
                                                may be unlawful. If you
                                                have received this
                                                communication in error,
                                                please immediately
                                                notify the sender by
                                                reply e-mail and destroy
                                                all copies of the
                                                communication and any
                                                attachments.</span></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="text-align:center"
                                      align="center"><span
                                        style="color:black">This
                                        communication is the property of
                                        CenturyLink and may contain
                                        confidential or privileged
                                        information. Unauthorized use of
                                        this communication is strictly
                                        prohibited and may be unlawful.
                                        If you have received this
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                                        any attachments.</span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                        style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                    <pre><span style="color:black">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></pre>
                                    <pre><span style="color:black">Idr mailing list</span></pre>
                                    <pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Idr@ietf.org</a></span></pre>
                                    <pre><span style="color:black"><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/idr</a></span></pre>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <p><span style="color:black">Â </span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
                                style="color:black">This communication
                                is the property of CenturyLink and may
                                contain confidential or privileged
                                information. Unauthorized use of this
                                communication is strictly prohibited and
                                may be unlawful. If you have received
                                this communication in error, please
                                immediately notify the sender by reply
                                e-mail and destroy all copies of the
                                communication and any attachments.</span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                      align="center">This communication is the property
                      of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or
                      privileged information. Unauthorized use of this
                      communication is strictly prohibited and may be
                      unlawful. If you have received this communication
                      in error, please immediately notify the sender by
                      reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
                      communication and any attachments.</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
            Idr mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:Idr@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
            <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr"
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/idr</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "'John Scudder'" <jgs@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations 
Thread-Index: AQDgFINvAFjO+VdbbiOFg5NtltkEBAGduhR0pgDxl9CAAAlpgIAARdCA///N0wCAAApVgIAJGw8A
Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 17:03:11 +0000
Message-ID: <9C0065A2-177A-46E6-B729-DA25AEC88118@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations
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Acee:

=20

I think so.   John and I will be talking on Tuesday to confirm.  =
(John=E2=80=99s busy on Monday with Day-job work).=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 1:03 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org; Alvaro =
Retana
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Hi Sue, John,=20

Are we ready to send this document back to the IESG?

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:59 PM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 6:00 PM

=20

Hi Sue, et al,=20

I just posted the -20 version.=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:23 PM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:23 PM

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:22 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Acee:

=20

You are right that the security people have seen this draft before.

If they did not feel it was necessary to add that point

at that time,  perhaps they feel the OPS/NM milieu =20

of NETCONF and Yang models is common knowledge.=20

=20

I think it is more that it would require more details than thinking it =
is common knowledge.=20

=20

Leaving it out seems the best policy for this next round at the IESG.

=20

Will you be creating another version soon with the changes?=20

I we=E2=80=99ve resolve my comments with those changes, and it should go =
back=20

to Alvaro=E2=80=99s AD review for this version.=20

=20

Will get a version out tonight.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 4:13 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:53 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:53 PM

=20

Acee:

=20

I=E2=80=99m not sure why this is out of scope for the security section

since it resolves some of the concerns security people may=20

have about SR-Routing. =20

=20

Again, the BGP Prefix-SID =E2=80=9CSecurity Considerations=E2=80=9D =
section discusses security issues relative to this mechanism. It is NOT =
the place to specify your proposal for a segment routing security =
framework. Note that this has already been through the IESG once so it =
is has already been subjected to the concerns of security people.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

=20

With standardized Yang models that securely pass information (via TLS)

to configure and validate the configuration of the=20

SR Domain boundaries, BGP peering, BGP filters, and packet

filters,  the IETF has provided secure mechanism to enact SR routing

and detect errors.  These tools reduce the attack surface of SR routing. =


=20

Configuration and monitoring can push/pull or notify over a secure =
channel.

The whole process can undergo automatic tracking and validation.=20

=20

Indicating that  this milieu of management tools reduces risk for=20

 BGP Prefix SID deployment seems to be important restatement of=20

the environment that the IETF OPS and Routing Areas have been=20

working on for the last 5 years.=20

=20

Sue

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 2:22 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20

=20

Hi Sue,=20

The Security Considerations section in this document are only defined =
for the BGP Prefix-SID mechanism. While you make some valid points, what =
you are describing is clearly beyond the scope and would impact multiple =
existing and possibly new drafts.=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM
To: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, =
"draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" =
<draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations=20
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>, <cf@cisco.com>, Acee =
Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah <arjunhrs@gmail.com>, =
<hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM

=20

Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and Arjun:

=20

IMHO the security section may need augmenting to=20

indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of an SR-Domain identifier.=20

=20

You state in -19.txt=20

=20

   The internal

   information includes the BGP Prefix-SID.  In order to prevent such

   leaking, the common BGP mechanisms (filters) are applied at the

   boundary of the SR/administrative domain.  Local BGP attribute

   filtering policies and mechanisms are not standardized and,

   consequently, beyond the scope of this document.

=20

In order to have security and manageability you will need to have:

=20

1)      Indication of SR domain and boundaries=20

2)      Type of forwarding within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)

3)      BGP peer policy that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached

4)      Filter policy for BGP attributes=20

=20

All of these could be expressed in Yang models and securely passed with=20

the multiple AS boundary within an SR/Administrative domain.=20

[The administrative domain concept was  defined in RFC 1136].

The yang model described in draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a place

this information could be placed within a SR/Administrative=20

domain and passed security via NETCONF or RESTCONF.

Similarly, the BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could=20

be used to track the BGP filters.  An augmentation to the BGP yang model =


could support tracking the policy for the BGP Prefix SID attachments.=20

=20

By referring to the yang modules and the passage of the management

information securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can=20

resolve some of the security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls

BGP Prefix SID (and other BGP drafts relating to SR).=20

=20

The fact we still need to ratify these Yang models in=20

as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the=20

OPS/NM and Security ADs can help us push.=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20


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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I think so.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0John and I will be talking on Tuesday to confirm. =
=C2=A0(John=E2=80=99s busy on Monday with Day-job work). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May =
14, 2018 1:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'John Scudder'; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org; Alvaro =
Retana<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security =
considerations <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, John, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Are we ready to send =
this document back to the IESG?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Acee Lindem =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:59 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 6:00 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, et al, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I just posted the -20 version. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Acee Lindem =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:23 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 5:23 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:22 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You are right =
that the security people have seen this draft =
before.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If they did =
not feel it was necessary to add that point</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>at that time,&nbsp; perhaps they feel the OPS/NM =
milieu &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>of NETCONF and =
Yang models is common knowledge. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I think it is more that it would require more =
details than thinking it is common knowledge. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Leaving it out =
seems the best policy for this next round at the =
IESG.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Will you be =
creating another version soon with the changes? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I we=E2=80=99ve resolve my comments with those =
changes, and it should go back </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>to Alvaro=E2=80=99s AD review for this version. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Will get a version out tonight. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 4:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Sue, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:53 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, IDR List =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 3:53 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99m =
not sure why this is out of scope for the security =
section</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>since it =
resolves some of the concerns security people may =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>have about =
SR-Routing.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Again, the BGP Prefix-SID =E2=80=9CSecurity =
Considerations=E2=80=9D section discusses security issues relative to =
this mechanism. It is NOT the place to specify your proposal for a =
segment routing security framework. Note that this has already been =
through the IESG once so it is has already been subjected to the =
concerns of security people. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>With =
standardized Yang models that securely pass information (via =
TLS)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>to configure =
and validate the configuration of the </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SR Domain boundaries, BGP peering, BGP filters, =
and packet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>filters, =
&nbsp;the IETF has provided secure mechanism to enact SR =
routing</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and detect =
errors. &nbsp;These tools reduce the attack surface of SR routing. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Configuration =
and monitoring can push/pull or notify over a secure =
channel.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The whole =
process can undergo automatic tracking and validation. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicating =
that &nbsp;this milieu of management tools reduces risk for =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;BGP =
Prefix SID deployment seems to be important restatement of =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>the =
environment that the IETF OPS and Routing Areas have been =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>working on for =
the last 5 years. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 2:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'John Scudder'; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>The =
Security Considerations section in this document are only defined for =
the BGP Prefix-SID mechanism. While you make some valid points, what you =
are describing is clearly beyond the scope and would impact multiple =
existing and possibly new drafts. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:59 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>John =
Scudder &lt;jgs@juniper.net&gt;, =
&quot;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid - security considerations =
<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;alias-bounces@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: =
</b>Stefano Previdi &lt;stefano@previdi.net&gt;, &lt;cf@cisco.com&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;arjunhrs@gmail.com&gt;, =
&lt;hannes@rtbrick.com&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
at 12:59 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody">Acee , Stephan, Hannes, Clarence, and =
Arjun:<o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>IMHO the security section may need =
augmenting to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>indicate the issue with IPv6 and the lack of =
an SR-Domain identifier. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>You state in -19.txt <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The internal</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; information includes the BGP =
Prefix-SID.&nbsp; In order to prevent such</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; leaking, the common BGP mechanisms =
(filters) are applied at the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; boundary of the SR/administrative =
domain.&nbsp; Local BGP attribute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; filtering policies and mechanisms are not =
standardized and,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; consequently, beyond the scope of this =
document.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>In order to have security and manageability =
you will need to have:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:3.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>1)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Indication of SR =
domain and boundaries <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:3.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>2)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Type of forwarding =
within domain (SRv6 or MPLS)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:3.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>3)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>BGP peer policy =
that indicates BGP Prefix SID can be attached<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:3.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>4)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Filter policy for =
BGP attributes <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>All of these could be expressed in Yang =
models and securely passed with <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>the multiple AS boundary within an =
SR/Administrative domain. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>[The administrative domain concept was =
&nbsp;defined in RFC 1136].<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>The yang model described in <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-08 is a =
place</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>this information =
could be placed within a SR/Administrative </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>domain and passed security via NETCONF or =
RESTCONF.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Similarly, the =
BGP yang model (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model) could </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>be used to track the BGP filters. &nbsp;An =
augmentation to the BGP yang model </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>could support tracking the policy for the BGP =
Prefix SID attachments. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>By referring to =
the yang modules and the passage of the =
management</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>information =
securely over TLS, I think the standardized management can =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>resolve some of =
the security concerns about passing the policy that =
controls</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>BGP Prefix SID =
(and other BGP drafts relating to SR). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>The fact we =
still need to ratify these Yang models in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>as RFCs rather than WG drafts is something the =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>OPS/NM and =
Security ADs can help us push. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:2.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_012A_01D3EB87.FA29EBC0--


From nobody Tue May 15 02:20:23 2018
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Flowspec Indirection-id Redirect
        Authors         : Gunter Van de Velde
                          Keyur Patel
                          Zhenbin Li
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-04.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2018-05-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a new extended community known as "FlowSpec
   Redirect to indirection-id Extended Community".  This extended
   community triggers advanced redirection capabilities to flowspec
   clients.  When activated, this flowspec extended community is used by
   a flowspec client to retrieve the corresponding next-hop and encoding
   information within a localised indirection-id mapping table.

   The functionality detailed in this document allows a network
   controller to decouple the BGP flowspec redirection instruction from
   the operation of the available paths.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-04

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Link-State extensions for Segment Routing
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Ketan Talaulikar
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-07.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2018-05-15

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end
   paths by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called
   "segments".  These segments are advertised by routing protocols e.g.
   by the link state routing protocols (IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) within
   IGP topologies.

   This draft defines extensions to the BGP Link-state address-family in
   order to carry segment routing information via BGP.



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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Flowspec Indirection-id Redirect
        Authors         : Gunter Van de Velde
                          Keyur Patel
                          Zhenbin Li
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-05.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2018-05-16

Abstract:
   This document defines a new extended community known as "FlowSpec
   Redirect to indirection-id Extended Community".  This extended
   community triggers advanced redirection capabilities to flowspec
   clients.  When activated, this flowspec extended community is used by
   a flowspec client to retrieve the corresponding next-hop and encoding
   information within a localised indirection-id mapping table.

   The functionality detailed in this document allows a network
   controller to decouple the BGP flowspec redirection instruction from
   the operation of the available paths.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-path-redirect-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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References: <CAN-MQG6bDyzcyuVs1vmka-JZFrD9Ya1uOuU_AFxfu0GnYgdmbA@mail.gmail.com> <aaa4916758a34ed99cb7432cff257f25@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG6R_LCLAM5xgaak3W_oRkuQFQsgZtEodacpeiLCQV8p-g@mail.gmail.com> <bd31302086e4453daa60d19aff45133b@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG7o41bnMebez1iovpRqpr=2gy9FB8xXOFDTzRRN=kUeug@mail.gmail.com> <25145a9f2db04e23b211c1caf3b86d74@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG61cg7JJHF4Co_LeCbur-7mYz4kbptampme4LgBXQtAyw@mail.gmail.com> <2efbf3be8d7c4833ac82d17a6b3ff249@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com>
From: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 13:02:39 +0530
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To: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>,  "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>,  "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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--0000000000001311c3056c61d7c0
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Hi Dave,
  Did you get comments or reply from any author?

Thanks,
Pavana.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 3:40 AM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
wrote:

> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> This is a good question and not currently described in the redirect-ip
> draft so I=E2=80=99ll defer to the authors for additional comments. In th=
e
> meantime, I=E2=80=99ll also mention the following:
>
> =C2=B7        =E2=80=9CIF=E2=80=9D transit ASes are able to modify a redi=
rect-ip flowspec
> =E2=80=9Ctarget address=E2=80=9D, then it would make sense to compare wit=
h the peer AS of
> the redirect-ip flowspec. However, this isn=E2=80=99t covered in the curr=
ent draft.
>
> =C2=B7        Otherwise, it would make sense to compare the origin ASes o=
r the
> whole AS-PATHs for a redirect-ip flowspec.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 06, 2018 9:32 AM
>
> *To:* David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org; Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia -
> CA/Ottawa) <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>   What is the possible reason or explanation for comparing the origin AS
> of best match route of target X with the peer-as of the flowspec route
> instead of comparing origin AS of both the routes?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:23 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> The redirect-ip draft specifies this additional validation step as the
> default behavior, however, it also allows it to be disabled via
> configuration.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 04, 2018 11:42 AM
> *To:* David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org; Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia -
> CA/Ottawa) <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hi Dave and Adam,
>
>   Thanks for the reply.
>
>
>
> Lets take the example as I gave earlier.
>
>
>
>     A----B----C
>
>
>
> A, B and C are 3 routers in different AS's  1, 2 and 3 respectively.
>
> A advertises a route for target X and also a Flowspec route with
> "redirect  IP(target X)". C receives these routes via B.
>
> Now the the origin AS or first AS in the AS_PATH of the route to target X
> is 1 but the peer-AS of Flowspec route is 2
>
>
>
> According to Dave,since the peer-AS 2 does not match the origin AS 1 of
> the best route for target X,  this redirect IP action will be  considered
> invalid for the flowspec route received at C.
>
> This is a typical scenario. Like this, we can't propagate the Flowspec
> routes with "redirect IP" action, more than one AS. I think, that's not
> expected.
>
>
>
> I feel, we should compare origin AS or neighbor-as for both Flowspec rout=
e
> and the best match route of target X. We should not be using peer-AS for
> flowspec route and nbr-as for best match route of target x. Otherwise the
> above typical scenarios never work.
>
> Probably, we need to edit the draft for "redirect-ip" action.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:08 PM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> >I went through the latest draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. It calls
> the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?
>
>
>
> Correct, first AS =3D first AS added =3D last AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-strin=
g =3D
> origin AS.
>
> last AS =3D last AS added =3D first AS in AS_PATH_SEQ hex-string =3D neig=
hboring
> AS.
> neighbor AS =3D peering AS: if update is coming from EBGP and
> enforce-first-AS used -as mandated by RFC 5575.
>
> Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 uses 'last  AS *added*' in
> most cases, and when it does just use 'last AS', it can be inferred.
>
>
>
> >If that=E2=80=99s the case, the validation will fail for any 'redirect I=
P'
> actions coming from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?
>
>
>
> The RFC 5575 validation procedure required that for EBGP learned flowspec=
s
> the =E2=80=98neighboring AS=E2=80=99 be in the left-most (or last) positi=
on of the AS_PATH
> attribute. Since this is not valid for all topologies,
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 redefines the BGP flowspec validation
> procedures including AS_PATH attribute. Further, the redirect-ip draft
> imposes an additional AS_PATH validation check (specific for redirect-ip
> flowspecs only) to validate that the best matching route to the redirect-=
ip
> 'target address' is a BGP route with origin AS matching the last AS added
> within the AS_PATH attribute of the redirect-ip flowspec. As
>
>
>
> >Also In  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of 'origin
> AS', the word 'last AS' is used. It is confusing.   Does the validation
> need to consider the first AS or last AS?
>
>
>
> See feedback above. Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 only needs to
> consider last AS while redirect-ip draft needs to consider both per above=
.
>
>
>
> >Regarding my second doubt, I could not get any pointers from
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 .  Do we need to consider only BGP
> routes always (for redirect-ip target address)?
>
>
>
> The redirect-ip draft allows for its added validation check to be disable=
d
> via configuration. This allows for a non-BGP route to the redirect-ip
> target address.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:40 AM
> *To:* David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>;
> draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec=
-
> oid@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>    Thanks for the reply and including respective draft author aliases.
>
>
>
> I went through the latest draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06. It calls
> the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?
>
> If that's the case, the validation will fail for any 'redirect IP' action=
s
> coming from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?
>
> Also In  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of 'origin
> AS', the word 'last AS' is used.It is confusing.   Does the validation ne=
ed
> to consider the first AS or last AS?
>
>
>
> Regarding my second doubt, I could not get any pointers from
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06 .  Do we need to consider only BGP
> routes always?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 3:37 AM, David Smith (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com=
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Pavana,
>
>
>
> Your points are valid. With that said, I=E2=80=99ll defer you to
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-05 (and later) and, specifically, section
> 4 (revised validation procedure) which addresses your points below.
>
>
>
> Co-incidentally, a WG last call was issued for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspe=
c-oid-06
> yesterday.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> /dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2018 1:51 AM
> *To:* idr wg <idr@ietf.org>; pmohapat@cumulusnetworks.com; David Smith
> (djsmith) <djsmith@cisco.com>
> *Subject:* Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>   In the draft  draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip-02.txt, the following
> procedure is mentioned to validate the extended community of 'Flowspec
>
> redirect to IP'.
>
>
>
>
>
>    BGP speakers that support the extended communities defined in this
>
>    draft MUST also, by default, enforce the following check when
>
>    receiving a flow-spec route from an EBGP peer: if the received flow-
>
>    spec route has a 'redirect to IP' extended community with a 'target
>
>    address' X (in the global administrator field) and the best matching
>
>    route to X is not a BGP route with *origin AS* matching the peer AS
>
>    then the extended community should be discarded and not propagated
>
>    along with the flow-spec route to other peers.
>
>
>
> *I have 2 doubts related to this statement.*
>
>
>
> *What is 'origin AS' here? Is it the AS no. that is first added to the AS=
_PATH? *
> *In the previous version of the draft its mentioned as the last AS in the=
 AS_PATH.*
> *Is it the last AS no. that has been added to the AS_PATH or the last AS =
no. from left in AS_PATH? *
>
>
>
> *What if the redirect target X is directly connected or reachable by a st=
atic route and its not advertised by EBGP?*
>
> *Do we need to consider that action invalid in that case?*
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pavana.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--0000000000001311c3056c61d7c0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dave,<div>=C2=A0 Did you get comments or reply from any=
 author?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Pavana.</div></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2018 a=
t 3:40 AM, David Smith (djsmith) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dj=
smith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_3547820601848165275WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">This is a good question and not currently described=
 in the redirect-ip draft so I=E2=80=99ll defer to the authors for addition=
al comments. In the meantime, I=E2=80=99ll also mention the following:<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_3547820601848165275MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>=C2=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &q=
uot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=9CIF=E2=80=9D transit ASes are able to =
modify a redirect-ip flowspec =E2=80=9Ctarget address=E2=80=9D, then it wou=
ld make sense to compare with the peer AS of the redirect-ip flowspec. Howe=
ver,
 this isn=E2=80=99t covered in the current draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_3547820601848165275MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>=C2=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &q=
uot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Otherwise, it would make sense to compare the =
origin ASes or the whole AS-PATHs for a redirect-ip flowspec.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pvlrpm@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 06, 2018 9:32 AM</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5">=
<br>
<b>To:</b> David Smith (djsmith) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr wg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Pradosh Mohapatra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpradosh@yahoo.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">mpradosh@yahoo.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flo=
wspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</a>; Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:adam.1.simpson@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank">adam.1.simpson@nok=
ia.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action<u></=
u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 What is the possible reason or explanation fo=
r comparing the origin AS of best match route of target X with the peer-as =
of the flowspec route instead of comparing origin AS of both the routes?<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pavana.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:23 PM, David Smith (djsmit=
h) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">The redirect-ip draft specifies this additional val=
idation step as the default behavior, however, it also allows
 it to be disabled via configuration.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;</span>=
<a href=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">pvlrpm@gmail.com</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif">&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 04, 2018 11:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Smith (djsmith) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif">djsmith@cisco.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr wg &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif">idr@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;; Pradosh Mohapatra &lt;</span><a href=3D"=
mailto:mpradosh@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">mpradosh@yahoo.com</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>&gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">;
 Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:adam.1.s=
impson@nokia.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">adam.1.simpson@nokia.com</span></a><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&g=
t;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action<u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave and Adam,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 Thanks for the reply.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lets take the example as I gave earlier.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A----B----C<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">A, B and C are 3 routers in different AS&#39;s=C2=A0 1, 2 and 3=
 respectively.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">A advertises a route for target X and also a Flowspec route wit=
h &quot;redirect=C2=A0 IP(target X)&quot;. C receives these routes via B.</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">Now the the origin AS or first AS in the AS_PATH of the route t=
o target X is 1 but the peer-AS of Flowspec route is 2=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">According to Dave,since the peer-AS 2 does not match the origin=
 AS 1 of the best route for target X,=C2=A0 this redirect IP action will be=
=C2=A0 considered invalid for the flowspec route received
 at C.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">This is a typical scenario. Like this, we can&#39;t propagate t=
he Flowspec routes with &quot;redirect IP&quot; action, more than one AS. I=
 think, that&#39;s not expected.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">I feel, we should compare origin AS or neighbor-as for both Flo=
wspec route and the best match route of target X. We should not be using pe=
er-AS for flowspec route and nbr-as for best
 match route of target x. Otherwise the above typical scenarios never work.=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">Probably, we need to edit the draft for &quot;redirect-ip&quot;=
 action.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#222222">Pavana.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:08 PM, David Smith (djsmit=
h) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;I went through the latest
<span style=3D"background:white">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. I=
t calls the first AS the Origin AS. Is it so?=C2=A0</span></span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Correct, first AS =3D first AS added =3D last AS in=
 AS_PATH_SEQ hex-string =3D origin AS.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">last AS =3D last AS added =3D first AS in AS_PATH_S=
EQ hex-string =3D neighboring AS.
<br>
neighbor AS =3D peering AS: if update is coming from EBGP and enforce-first=
-AS used -as mandated by RFC 5575.<br>
<br>
Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 uses &#39;last=C2=A0 AS *=
added*&#39; in most cases, and when it does just use &#39;last AS&#39;, it =
can be inferred.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;If that=E2=80=99s the case, th=
e validation will fail for any &#39;redirect IP&#39; actions coming from th=
e AS other
 than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">The RFC 5575 validation procedure =
required that for EBGP learned flowspecs the =E2=80=98neighboring AS=E2=80=
=99
 be in the left-most (or last) position of the AS_PATH attribute. Since thi=
s is not valid for all topologies, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 =
redefines the BGP flowspec validation procedures including AS_PATH attribut=
e. Further, the redirect-ip draft imposes
 an additional AS_PATH validation check (specific for redirect-ip flowspecs=
 only) to validate that the best matching route to the redirect-ip &#39;tar=
get address&#39; is a BGP route with origin AS matching the last AS added w=
ithin the AS_PATH attribute of the redirect-ip
 flowspec. As </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;Also In=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ietf-=
idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of &#39;origin AS&#39;, the w=
ord &#39;last AS&#39;
 is used. It is confusing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Does the validation need to consider=
 the first AS or last AS?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">See feedback above. Draft-ietf-idr=
-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 only needs to consider last AS while redirect-ip
 draft needs to consider both per above.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">&gt;Regarding my second doubt, I c=
ould not get any pointers from=C2=A0 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-0=
6=C2=A0.=C2=A0
 Do we need to consider only BGP routes always (for redirect-ip target addr=
ess)?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;background:white">The redirect-ip draft allows for i=
ts added validation check to be disabled via configuration. This
 allows for a non-BGP route to the redirect-ip target address. </span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;</span>=
<a href=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">pvlrpm@gmail.com</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif">&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Smith (djsmith) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,sans-serif">djsmith@cisco.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr wg &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif">idr@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;; Pradosh Mohapatra &lt;</span><a href=3D"=
mailto:mpradosh@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">mpradosh@yahoo.com</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>&gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-redirect-ip@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif">draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip@ietf.org</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
>;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,sans-serif">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for the reply and including resp=
ective draft author aliases.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I went through the latest
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#222222;background:white">
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06. It calls the first AS the Origin A=
S. Is it so?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">If that&#39;s the ca=
se, the validation will fail for any &#39;redirect IP&#39; actions coming
 from the AS other than neighbor AS. Is that the intention?</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Also In=C2=A0=C2=A0d=
raft-ietf-idr-flowspec-<wbr>redirect-ip-00.txt, instead of &#39;origin AS&#=
39;, the word
 &#39;last AS&#39; is used.It is confusing.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Does the validation=
 need to consider the first AS or last AS?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Regarding my second =
doubt, I could not get any pointers from=C2=A0 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-=
<wbr>oid-06=C2=A0.=C2=A0
 Do we need to consider only BGP routes always?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Thanks,</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Pavana.<br>
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 3:37 AM, David Smith (djsmit=
h) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">djsmith@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Pavana,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Your points are valid. With that said, I=E2=80=99ll=
 defer you to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-05 (and later) and, spec=
ifically,
 section 4 (revised validation procedure) which addresses your points below=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Co-incidentally, a WG last call was issued for draf=
t-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-<wbr>oid-06 yesterday.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">/dave</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> PVLR Pavana Murthy &lt;</span>=
<a href=3D"mailto:pvlrpm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">pvlrpm@gmail.com</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif">&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 13, 2018 1:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr wg &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-se=
rif">idr@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;;
</span><a href=3D"mailto:pmohapat@cumulusnetworks.com" target=3D"_blank"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">p=
mohapat@cumulusnetworks.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">; David Smith (djsmith)
 &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:djsmith@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">djsmith=
@cisco.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif">Hello,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif">=C2=A0 In the draft=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">draft-ietf-idr-<wbr>flowspec-=
redirect-ip-02.txt,
 the following procedure is mentioned to validate the extended community of=
 &#39;Flowspec
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:black">redirect to IP&#39;.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP speakers that su=
pport the extended communities defined in this</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft MUST also, by default, =
enforce the following check when</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 receiving a flow-spec route f=
rom an EBGP peer: if the received flow-</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 spec route has a &#3=
9;redirect to IP&#39; extended community with a &#39;target</span><u></u><u=
></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 address&#39; X (in the global=
 administrator field) and the best matching</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 route to X is not a BGP route=
 with <b>origin AS</b> matching the peer AS</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 then the extended community s=
hould be discarded and not propagated</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 along with the flow-spec rout=
e to other peers. </span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">I have 2 doubts related to thi=
s statement.</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">What is &#39;origin AS&#39; he=
re? Is it the AS no. that is first added to the AS_PATH? </span></b><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><br><b>In the previous version of the draft its mentio=
ned as the last AS in the AS_PATH.</b><br><b>Is it the last AS no. that has=
 been added to the AS_PATH or the last AS no. from left in AS_PATH? </b></s=
pan><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">What if the redirect target X =
is directly connected or reachable by a static route and its not advertised=
 by EBGP?</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><b><span style=3D"color:black">Do we need to consider that ac=
tion invalid in that case?</span></b><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">Pavana.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 22:54:30 +0100
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Subject: [Idr] RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Hello

I have been selected to do a routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D re=
view of this
draft.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06

The routing directorate will, on request from the working group chair,
perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is submitted=
 for publication
to the IESG. The early review can be performed at any time during the
draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group document. The purpose of the ea=
rly
review depends on the stage that the document has reached.

For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Document: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06.txt
Reviewer: Victoria Pritchard
Review Date: 17/05/2018
Intended Status: Standards Track

Summary:
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be
considered, just a few things that weren't clear to me, but these may be
obvious to the intended audience.

Comments:

(1)
I found the document difficult to read with so many references to
definitions in other drafts. I noticed that the other drafts sometimes
duplicate text from each other, so wonder if that should be done here too
to aid readability, along with a comment that these parts have the same
definition in the IS-IS and OSPF extensions too. e.g. 2.2.1 but applies
throughout.

(2)
I found Table 5 6 and 7 really useful, since it became clear that the TLVs
defined here for BGP map to OSPF and IS-IS extensions. I'd like to see
these tables earlier in the draft.

(3)
Sections 2.1, 2.2, 2.3.1, 2.3.4 all mention "SR TLV" or "corresponding TLV"
but it wasn't clear what these were.

(4)
Section 2.1.1
If length is 3 and the rightmost 20 bits are a label, what are the other
bits for?

(5)
2.1.2. The capabilities TLV "advertise the node's SR capabilities and its
Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB) range(s)", but the format diagram only
contains Segment ID information. What are the capabilities? Or does the
presence of this TLV indicate the capability?

(6)
2.1.2, 2.1.4
The range size is followed by a single SID? Is this the same for the Range
TLV in 2.3.4?

(7)
2.1.5 The SRMS Preference TLV only contains the Preference value, so it was
unclear how this is linked to a mapping server? Is the mapping server some
other field in the message?

(8)
2.3.1
If the flags field is to be used according to the flags from the
corresponding source protocol, does the receiver know the source protocol
and therefore how to interpret this field? 2.3.2 says to look in NLRI for
Protocol-ID so may be worth stating the same here.

(9)
2.3.4.1 repeats that the flags of the "Range TLV" are set according to the
definition in the OSPF drafts. Is that the Range TLV defined here (in which
case this is already stated in 2.3.4), or the OSPF Extended Prefix Range
TLV (in which case, why would you need to clarify how those flags are used)=
?
Does this paragraph mean you copy the TLV used in OSPF and also add a
Prefix-SID? So for each mapping there are 2 TLVs? 2.3.4.2 is much clearer
in the way it presents this.
Again a note about Protocol-ID may help here since the sub-TLVs included
are different depending on the protocol.

(10)
Table 5,6,7. Is the fact the length is variable is interesting in this
table? I would like to see this table earlier in the draft to visualise the
OSPF and IS-IS information you are aiming to share using this BGP extension=
.

--0000000000004ecc38056c6de130
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello</div><div><br></div><div>I have been selected t=
o do a routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of this draft.=C2=
=A0</div><div><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-=
segment-routing-ext-06">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-s=
egment-routing-ext-06</a></div><div><br></div><div>The routing directorate =
will, on request from the working group chair, perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=
=80=9D review of a draft before it is submitted for publication to the IESG=
. The early review can be performed at any time during the draft=E2=80=99s =
lifetime as a working group document. The purpose of the early review depen=
ds on the stage that the document has reached.</div><div><br></div><div>For=
 more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B<a hre=
f=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir">http://trac.tool=
s.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</a></div><div><br></div><div>Document:=
 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06.txt</div><div>Reviewer: Victo=
ria Pritchard</div><div>Review Date: 17/05/2018=C2=A0</div><div>Intended St=
atus: Standards Track</div><div><br></div><div>Summary:</div><div>I have so=
me minor concerns about this document that I think should be considered, ju=
st a few things that weren&#39;t clear to me, but these may be obvious to t=
he intended audience.</div><div><br></div><div>Comments:</div><div><br></di=
v><div>(1)</div><div>I found the document difficult to read with so many re=
ferences to definitions in other drafts. I noticed that the other drafts so=
metimes duplicate text from each other, so wonder if that should be done he=
re too to aid readability, along with a comment that these parts have the s=
ame definition in the IS-IS and OSPF extensions too. e.g. 2.2.1 but applies=
 throughout.</div><div><br></div><div>(2)</div><div>I found Table 5 6 and 7=
 really useful, since it became clear that the TLVs defined here for BGP ma=
p to OSPF and IS-IS extensions. I&#39;d like to see these tables earlier in=
 the draft.</div><div><br></div><div>(3)</div><div>Sections 2.1, 2.2, 2.3.1=
, 2.3.4 all mention &quot;SR TLV&quot; or &quot;corresponding TLV&quot; but=
 it wasn&#39;t clear what these were.</div><div><br></div><div>(4)</div><di=
v>Section 2.1.1=C2=A0</div><div>If length is 3 and the rightmost 20 bits ar=
e a label, what are the other bits for?</div><div><br></div><div>(5)</div><=
div>2.1.2. The capabilities TLV &quot;advertise the node&#39;s SR capabilit=
ies and its Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB) range(s)&quot;, but the form=
at diagram only contains Segment ID information. What are the capabilities?=
 Or does the presence of this TLV indicate the capability?=C2=A0</div><div>=
<br></div><div>(6)<br></div><div>2.1.2, 2.1.4</div><div>The range size is f=
ollowed by a single SID? Is this the same for the Range TLV in 2.3.4?</div>=
<div><br></div><div>(7)</div><div>2.1.5 The SRMS Preference TLV only contai=
ns the Preference value, so it was unclear how this is linked to a mapping =
server? Is the mapping server some other field in the message?</div><div><b=
r></div><div>(8)</div><div>2.3.1</div><div>If the flags field is to be used=
 according to the flags from the corresponding source protocol, does the re=
ceiver know the source protocol and therefore how to interpret this field? =
2.3.2 says to look in NLRI for Protocol-ID so may be worth stating the same=
 here.</div><div><br></div><div>(9)</div><div>2.3.4.1 repeats that the flag=
s of the &quot;Range TLV&quot; are set according to the definition in the O=
SPF drafts. Is that the Range TLV defined here (in which case this is alrea=
dy stated in 2.3.4), or the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV (in which case, =
why would you need to clarify how those flags are used)?</div><div>Does thi=
s paragraph mean you copy the TLV used in OSPF and also add a Prefix-SID? S=
o for each mapping there are 2 TLVs? 2.3.4.2 is much clearer in the way it =
presents this.</div><div>Again a note about Protocol-ID may help here since=
 the sub-TLVs included are different depending on the protocol.</div><div><=
br></div><div>(10)</div><div>Table 5,6,7. Is the fact the length is variabl=
e is interesting in this table? I would like to see this table earlier in t=
he draft to visualise the OSPF and IS-IS information you are aiming to shar=
e using this BGP extension.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

--0000000000004ecc38056c6de130--


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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Victoria Pritchard <pritchardv0@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.all@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06
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Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 08:46:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-06
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From: "LINGALA, AVINASH" <ar977m@att.com>
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid-06
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Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 16:38:00 +0000
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From: "David Smith (djsmith)" <djsmith@cisco.com>
To: PVLR Pavana Murthy <pvlrpm@gmail.com>
CC: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Pradosh Mohapatra <mpradosh@yahoo.com>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-flowspec-oid@ietf.org>, "Simpson, Adam 1. (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <adam.1.simpson@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
Thread-Index: AQHT0uuAIyyPj6TSKkC7hpPOOBsfrqQVHkWAgADlwwCACFzuAIABydMA///QDUCAAzBzAIAC7FwwgA34zYCAAdz0wA==
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 17:01:10 +0000
Message-ID: <0bb54a0314924352b334a408b05c11fa@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com>
References: <CAN-MQG6bDyzcyuVs1vmka-JZFrD9Ya1uOuU_AFxfu0GnYgdmbA@mail.gmail.com> <aaa4916758a34ed99cb7432cff257f25@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG6R_LCLAM5xgaak3W_oRkuQFQsgZtEodacpeiLCQV8p-g@mail.gmail.com> <bd31302086e4453daa60d19aff45133b@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG7o41bnMebez1iovpRqpr=2gy9FB8xXOFDTzRRN=kUeug@mail.gmail.com> <25145a9f2db04e23b211c1caf3b86d74@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG61cg7JJHF4Co_LeCbur-7mYz4kbptampme4LgBXQtAyw@mail.gmail.com> <2efbf3be8d7c4833ac82d17a6b3ff249@XCH-RCD-012.cisco.com> <CAN-MQG6TP9Z3dPEjjneAB+WLDtaALMKMoXG32EKdJPfttL-QDw@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Validation for BGP Flow-Spec Redirect to IP Action
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--_000_0bb54a0314924352b334a408b05c11faXCHRCD012ciscocom_--


From nobody Fri May 18 10:42:00 2018
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From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
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Subject: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with COMMENT)
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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: No Objection

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email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The table in Section 5.1 suggests that nesting a Hard Reset in a
Hard Reset is a supported operation.  When would it make sense to do
so/should this be forbidden?



From nobody Fri May 18 11:48:49 2018
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Advertising Segment Routing Policies in BGP
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Dhanendra Jain
                          Paul Mattes
                          Eric Rosen
                          Steven Lin
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-03.txt
	Pages           : 40
	Date            : 2018-05-18

Abstract:
   This document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI in order to
   advertise a candidate path of a Segment Routing Policy (SR Policy).
   An SR Policy is a set of candidate paths consisting of one or more
   segment lists.  The headend of an SR Policy may learn multiple
   candidate paths for an SR Policy.  Candidate paths may be learned via
   a number of different mechanisms, e.g., CLI, NetConf, PCEP, or BGP.
   This document specifies the way in which BGP may be used to
   distribute candidate paths.  New sub-TLVs for the Tunnel
   Encapsulation Attribute are defined.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Ketan:

=20

Thank you for the description of the use cases.   =20

=20

In the draft:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programmin=
g-03#section-8.

 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programmi=
ng-04#section-8.2>=20
8.2.  BGP-LS

=20
=20
   BGP-LS is expected to be the key service discovery protocol.  Every
   node is expected to advertise via BGP-LS its SRv6 capabilities (e.g.
   how many SIDs in can insert as part of an T.Insert behavior) and any
   locally instantiated SID[I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext][I-D
   .ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution].

=20

My understanding is that you are implying that the BGP extension for =
SRv6 do not=20

use a BGP attribute. =20

=20

In section 2, you state:  =E2=80=9CThe BGP-LS [RFC7752] defines the BGP =
Node and Link attributes.=E2=80=9D=20

I believe what you mean is:=20

=20

New/ The BGP-LS [RFC7752] defines the BGP Node and Link attributes for =
the Link-State NLRI./

=20

Is this correct?  If so, it might be good to make that small =
clarification to your draft.=20

=20

I also believe that you are encoding the SRv6 SIDs that are associated =
with the node in the=20

BGP-LS [RFC7752] Link-State NLRI in the NLRI type node as a TLV within =
this NLRI type.=20

=20

The SRv6 draft (draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03)  does

not anticipate using a BGP attribute to associate the an SID with a set =
of prefixes

being announced by a node.  Instead, this draft suggest that the SID =
assignment will be=20

assigned to a node TLV being sent by a BGP Speaker.=20

 =20

My understanding is that the node this SID TLV is associated does not =
have to be a bgp speaker.=20

Is this correct?=20

 =20

Thank you for helping me understand your document.=20

=20

Susan Hares

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant)
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 11:07 PM
To: Susan Hares; Acee Lindem (acee); idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text =
clarifying removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,

=20

I would like to clarify on SRv6 and BGP extensions for it.

=20

Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid associates the Prefix SID attribute to MP =
BGP Labelled IPv4/IPv6 Unicast AFI/SAFI and is hence applicable to =
SR/MPLS forwarding plane.

=20

SRv6 architecture is described in =
draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming and it provides an =
overview of the control plane implications for various protocols in  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programmi=
ng-03#section-8> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programmin=
g-03#section-8.=20

=20

The draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers the VPN signalling aspects as =
described in sec 8.3. The sec 8.1 (though marked as IGP) explains the =
prefix reachability considerations for routing. The routing protocols =
signal reachability for the locator prefixes.=20

=20

The advertisement of all SRv6 SIDs of a node is done via BGP-LS and is =
covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext (as explained in Sec 8.2 of =
SRv6 net. prg. draft). The SRv6 END SID is functionality equivalent to =
the SR/MPLS Prefix SID =E2=80=93 i.e. instruction to go to the node =
advertising the prefix via the best routing path. The SRv6 END SID =
advertisement via BGP-LS for a BGP node is covered in  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.=
1.2> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.1=
.2 =20

=20

Thanks,

Ketan

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 09 May 2018 01:41
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text =
clarifying removal of SRv6 case

=20

Acee:=20

=20

This is important fact to know.  You had mentioned in person, but this=20

point  not evident in the set of drafts I had.   I=E2=80=99ll switch =
that set of=20

questions over to a different thread.=20

=20

Sue=20

                                                       =20

From: Idr [ <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org> mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] =
On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 4:07 PM
To: Susan Hares;  <mailto:idr@ietf.org> idr@ietf.org
Cc:  <mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org;  =
<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text =
clarifying removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares < <mailto:shares@ndzh.com> shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:01 PM
To: Acee Lindem < <mailto:acee@cisco.com> acee@cisco.com>, IDR List < =
<mailto:idr@ietf.org> idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana < <mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com> =
aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder < <mailto:jgs@juniper.net> =
jgs@juniper.net>, " <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, " =
<mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Acee:

=20

draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt covers the NLRI=20

and not the BGP attribute (defined in draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid).=20

=20

Right =E2=80=93 for the initial use cases, the BGP-LS AF will be used to =
advertise the SRv6 SID corresponding to a unicast prefix.=20

=20

Did you mean section 2 of draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?  =20

 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#section-2>=20
2.  SRv6-VPN SID TLV

=20

=20

   The SRv6-VPN SID TLV is defined as another TLV for BGP-Prefix-SID

   Attribute [ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#ref-I-D.ietf-idr=
-bgp-prefix-sid> I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid].

=20

This is another use case for SRv6 and VPN prefixes. You won=E2=80=99t =
find the exact use case that was previously in the BGP Prefix-SID draft. =
As discussed, it didn=E2=80=99t satisfy any use cases and wasn=E2=80=99t =
ever implemented.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [ <mailto:acee@cisco.com> =
mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 3:52 PM
To: Susan Hares;  <mailto:idr@ietf.org> idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder';  =
<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org;  =
<mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares < <mailto:shares@ndzh.com> shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 3:38 PM
To: Acee Lindem < <mailto:acee@cisco.com> acee@cisco.com>, IDR List < =
<mailto:idr@ietf.org> idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana < <mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com> =
aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder < <mailto:jgs@juniper.net> =
jgs@juniper.net>, " <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>, " =
<mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Acee:

=20

Thank you for the quick response.  Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 =
(not IPv6).=20

=20

Just to make sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is  SR domain =
is running the SRv6 forwarding. =20

=20

BGP speaking forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)

adds  BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix SID (which only works with a =
MPLS forwarding).=20

What should happen in the attribute processing?=20

=20

The answer to this question could be placed in=20

1)      draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid,=20

2)      draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or=20

3)      draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =20

=20

Do I understand correctly from your that this problem should be =
addressed in the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?=20

=20

If this is your suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers too much.=20

The issues regarding the processing of the BGP attribute need to go to =
IDR.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 this is described in  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.=
1.2> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.1=
.2

=20

The BGP based Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which =
has dealt

with the EVPN creation.   I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this =
message, and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send=20

just the BGP Attribute processing and material similar to =
draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR.=20

=20

I believe this draft is still evolving. You probably want to wait to =
review the next revision.=20

=20

This is not to say that there will not be other SRv6 BGP use cases in =
the future and I wouldn=E2=80=99t completely rule out future extension =
of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) [ <mailto:acee@cisco.com> =
mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:06 PM
To: Susan Hares;  <mailto:idr@ietf.org> idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder';  =
<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

From: Susan Hares < <mailto:shares@ndzh.com> shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:09 PM
To: IDR List < <mailto:idr@ietf.org> idr@ietf.org>
Cc: Alvaro Retana < <mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com> =
aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder < <mailto:jgs@juniper.net> =
jgs@juniper.net>, " <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org> =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal =
of SRv6 case
Resent-From: < <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org> alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Stefano Previdi < <mailto:stefano@previdi.net> =
stefano@previdi.net>, < <mailto:cf@cisco.com> cf@cisco.com>, Acee Lindem =
< <mailto:acee@cisco.com> acee@cisco.com>, Arjun Sreekantiah < =
<mailto:arjunhrs@gmail.com> arjunhrs@gmail.com>, < =
<mailto:hannes@rtbrick.com> hannes@rtbrick.com>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:08 PM

=20

Acee:=20

=20

I agree with not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid. =20

If it is not working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the =
IESG for publication.   =20

=20

I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 (as opposed to IPv6) from =
the document. =20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve suggested some text below in the introduction that =
identifies the SRv6 case and=20

Indicates that BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with=20

SRv6 SIDs (IPv6 addresses).

=20

However, there should also be some text in section 6.=20

Section 6 states:

/  When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update message containing a
   malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a Labeled
   IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [RFC8277 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277> ], it MUST ignore the received BGP
   Prefix-SID attributes and not advertise it to other BGP peers.  This
   is equivalent to the "Attribute discard" action specified in
   [RFC7606 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606> ].  When discarding an =
attribute, a BGP speaker SHOULD log an
   error for further analysis.

/

=20

In section 4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =
=E2=80=9CLabel-Index TLV, and=20

=E2=80=9Cconflicting as=E2=80=9D

   If multiple different prefixes are received with the same label
   index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP Prefix-SID
   attribute considered as "conflicting".

=20

You do not define malformed in any section.  Normally, a malformed =
attribute is an attribute that=20

does not abide by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is =
the TLVs within the attribute].

Is this the intent?  If so, you might indicate what malformed is =
someplace in the draft.=20

=20

Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to section 6. =20

=20

       In this context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute

      is one that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum length

      requirement or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to the

       length constraints for the TLV or would exceed the attribute =
length.

=20

=20

=20

I do not perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP =
Prefix SID attribute that is associated

with an SRv6 SID.   The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting.=20

Perhaps you could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D.    My =
suggested text below uses that term.=20

IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID attribute being associated with =
SRv6 SID

case needs to be addressed in the error handling section of the draft.=20

=20

Since SRv6 has been removed from the document, there is no need to =
describe error handling behavior (see below).=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

Suggested textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not =
supported.=20

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here=E2=80=99s my suggested=20

Change 1:=20

Current/

   As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
   to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
   SID consists of a label. =20
/
Here=E2=80=99s a proposed text that you might add:=20
=20
New/As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing> ], when SR is applied
    to the MPLS dataplane ([I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-I-D.iet=
f-spring-segment-routing-mpls> ]), the
    SID consists of a label. =20
=20
    [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also=20
    indicates that SR routing can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane=20
    [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] in a new v6 routing header =
with=20
    the SID encoded as an IPv6 address.  The SR segment that uses this =
header=20
    is denoted as an SR SID.=20
/
=20
Ok. I=E2=80=99d also add:
=20
           The applicability and support for Segment Routing over IPv6 =
is beyond=20
           the scope of this document.=20
=20
Change 2 is then not necessary.=20
=20
Thanks,
Acee=20
=20

Change 2:=20

Further down in the paragraph I suggest changing:=20

Old/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute.

/

to=20

/

   This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP Prefix-
   SID.  Specifically, this document defines a BGP attribute known as
   the BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to originate,
   receive, and handle error conditions for the attribute when
   SR is applied to the MPLS dataplane. =20
=20
   This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can=20
   associated used with an SRv6 SID.  A BGP Prefix-SID attribute=20
   is considered illegal use of this attribute and=20
   the attribute will be discarded (see section 6 for=20
   for details on error handling ).=20
/
=20

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for the =
description of the use cases.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In the =
draft:<br></span><span lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-pr=
ogramming-03#section-8">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring=
-srv6-network-programming-03#section-8</a>.</span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-pr=
ogramming-04#section-8.2"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;text-decoration:none'><br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>8.2</span></a><a =
name=3Dsection-8.2></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>.=C2=A0 =
BGP-LS</span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP-LS is expected to be the key =
service discovery protocol.=C2=A0 =
Every<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 node is expected to advertise via =
BGP-LS its SRv6 capabilities (e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 how many SIDs in can insert as part =
of an T.Insert behavior) and any<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 locally instantiated =
SID[I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext][I-D<o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
.ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution].<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>My understanding is that =
you are implying that the BGP extension for SRv6 do not =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>use a BGP attribute.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In section 2, you state: =
=C2=A0=E2=80=9CThe BGP-LS [RFC7752] defines the BGP Node and Link =
attributes.=E2=80=9D <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I believe what you mean is: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>New/ The BGP-LS =
[RFC7752] defines the BGP Node and Link attributes for the Link-State =
NLRI./<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this correct? =
=C2=A0If so, it might be good to make that small clarification to your =
draft. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I also believe that you =
are encoding the SRv6 SIDs that are associated with the node in the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BGP-LS [RFC7752] Link-State NLRI in the NLRI =
type node as a TLV within this NLRI type. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The SRv6 draft =
(draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03) =C2=A0does<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>not anticipate using a =
BGP attribute to associate the an SID with a set of =
prefixes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>being announced by a node.=C2=A0 Instead, this =
draft suggest that the SID assignment will be <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>assigned to a node TLV =
being sent by a BGP Speaker. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>My understanding is that =
the node this SID TLV is associated does not have to be a bgp speaker. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this correct? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for helping me =
understand your document. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan =
Hares<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 8, 2018 11:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares; Acee Lindem (acee); idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I would =
like to clarify on SRv6 and BGP extensions for =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid associates the =
Prefix SID attribute to MP BGP Labelled IPv4/IPv6 Unicast AFI/SAFI and =
is hence applicable to SR/MPLS forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SRv6 =
architecture is described in =
draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming and it provides an =
overview of the control plane implications for various protocols in =
</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-network-pr=
ogramming-03#section-8"><span =
lang=3DEN-IN>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-netwo=
rk-programming-03#section-8</span></a><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers the VPN signalling aspects as described =
in sec 8.3. The sec 8.1 (though marked as IGP) explains the prefix =
reachability considerations for routing. The routing protocols signal =
reachability for the locator prefixes. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The =
advertisement of all SRv6 SIDs of a node is done via BGP-LS and is =
covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext (as explained in Sec 8.2 of =
SRv6 net. prg. draft). The SRv6 END SID is functionality equivalent to =
the SR/MPLS Prefix SID =E2=80=93 i.e. instruction to go to the node =
advertising the prefix via the best routing path. The SRv6 END SID =
advertisement via BGP-LS for a BGP node is covered in </span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#sec=
tion-2.1.2"><span =
lang=3DEN-IN>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-0=
3#section-2.1.2</span></a><span lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'color:#1F497D'> =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan =
Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> 09 May 2018 01:41<br><b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; idr@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This is important fact =
to know. &nbsp;You had mentioned in person, but this =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>point &nbsp;not evident in the set of drafts I =
had. &nbsp;&nbsp;I=E2=80=99ll switch that set of =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>questions over to a different thread. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [</span><a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>mailto:idr-b=
ounces@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 8, 2018 =
4:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>idr@ietf.org=
</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Cc:</=
b> </span><a href=3D"mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>draft-dawra-=
idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>; </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>draft-ietf-i=
dr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Subje=
ct:</b> Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>shares@ndzh.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 at 4:01 PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>acee@cisco.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, IDR List &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>idr@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro Retana =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>aretana.ietf@gmail.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, John Scudder &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>jgs@juniper.net</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &quot;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &quot;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org</span></a><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org</span></a><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt covers the =
NLRI </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>and not the BGP =
attribute (defined in draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Right =E2=80=93 for =
the initial use cases, the BGP-LS AF will be used to advertise the SRv6 =
SID corresponding to a unicast prefix. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Did you mean =
section 2 of draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03?&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in;mso-line-height-alt:0pt'><a name=3Dsection-2></a><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#section-2=
"><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;text-decoration:none'><br></span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>2</span></b></a><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>.&nbsp; =
SRv6-VPN SID TLV</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The SRv6-VPN SID TLV is defined as =
another TLV for BGP-Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Attribute [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03#ref-I-D.i=
etf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>].</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>This is another use =
case for SRv6 and VPN prefixes. You won=E2=80=99t find the exact use =
case that was previously in the BGP Prefix-SID draft. As discussed, it =
didn=E2=80=99t satisfy any use cases and wasn=E2=80=99t ever =
implemented. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Sue =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [</span><a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>mailto:acee@=
cisco.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 8, 2018 3:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; =
</span><a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>idr@ietf.org=
</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Cc:</=
b> 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>draft-ietf-i=
dr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>; </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>draft-dawra-=
idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Subje=
ct:</b> Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>shares@ndzh.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 at 3:38 PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>acee@cisco.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, IDR List &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>idr@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro Retana =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>aretana.ietf@gmail.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, John Scudder &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>jgs@juniper.net</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &quot;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &quot;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org</span></a><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org</span></a><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 =
case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for =
the quick response. &nbsp;Yes =E2=80=93 I did mean the SRv6 (not IPv6). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Just to make =
sure, I=E2=80=99ve been clear, the scenario is &nbsp;SR domain is =
running the SRv6 forwarding.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BGP speaking =
forwarding BGP-LS with SRV6 information (per =
draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>adds &nbsp;BGP attribute with a valid BGP Prefix =
SID (which only works with a MPLS forwarding). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>What should happen in the attribute processing? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The answer to =
this question could be placed in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>1)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>2)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03.txt, or =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in'>3)<span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Do I =
understand correctly from your that this problem should be addressed in =
the draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-03? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If this is =
your suggestion, it is a good one =E2=80=93 but the =
draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn covers too much. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The issues regarding the processing of the BGP =
attribute need to go to IDR. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 this is described in </span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext-03#sec=
tion-2.1.2"><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-bg=
pls-srv6-ext-03#section-2.1.2</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The BGP based =
Ethernet VPN over SRV6 needs to go to the Bess WG which has =
dealt</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with the EVPN =
creation.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve copied the authors on this message, =
and I=E2=80=99ll see if they can send </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>just the BGP Attribute processing and material =
similar to draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid to IDR. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I believe this draft is still evolving. You =
probably want to wait to review the next revision. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>This is not to say that there will not be =
other SRv6 BGP use cases in the future and I wouldn=E2=80=99t completely =
rule out future extension of the BGP Prefix-SID attribute. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Acee Lindem (acee) [</span><a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>mailto:acee@=
cisco.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 8, 2018 1:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; =
</span><a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>idr@ietf.org=
</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Cc:</=
b> 'Alvaro Retana'; 'John Scudder'; </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>draft-ietf-i=
dr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Subje=
ct:</b> Re: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying =
removal of SRv6 case</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Hi Sue, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Susan Hares &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>shares@ndzh.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May =
8, 2018 at 12:09 PM<br><b>To: </b>IDR List &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>idr@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Alvaro Retana =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>aretana.ietf@gmail.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, John Scudder &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:jgs@juniper.net"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>jgs@juniper.net</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &quot;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of =
SRv6 case<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>alias-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Resent-To: </b>Stefano =
Previdi &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:stefano@previdi.net"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>stefano@previdi.net</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cf@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>cf@cisco.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, Acee Lindem &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>acee@cisco.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, Arjun Sreekantiah =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:arjunhrs@gmail.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>arjunhrs@gmail.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:hannes@rtbrick.com"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>hannes@rtbrick.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;<br><b>Resent-Date: =
</b>Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 12:08 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><a =
name=3D"_MailOriginalBody"><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Acee: =
</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree with =
not specifying the IPv6in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If it is not =
working, it does not belong in an IDR draft going to the IESG for =
publication. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I=E2=80=99m glad you agree with removing SRv6 =
(as opposed to IPv6) from the document. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ve =
suggested some text below in the introduction that identifies the SRv6 =
case and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Indicates that =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute should not be associated with =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SRv6 SIDs =
(IPv6 addresses).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>However, there =
should also be some text in section 6. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Section 6 states:</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp; When a BGP Speaker receives a BGP Update =
message containing a</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
malformed or invalid BGP Prefix-SID attribute attached to a =
Labeled</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; IPv4/IPv6 unicast prefix [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8277" title=3D"&quot;Using BGP to =
Bind MPLS Labels to Address Prefixes&quot;">RFC8277</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>], it MUST ignore the received =
BGP</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Prefix-SID attributes and not =
advertise it to other BGP peers.&nbsp; This</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
equivalent to the &quot;Attribute discard&quot; action specified =
in</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7606" title=3D"&quot;Revised =
Error Handling for BGP UPDATE Messages&quot;">RFC7606</a><span =
style=3D'color:black'>].&nbsp; When discarding an attribute, a BGP =
speaker SHOULD log an</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
error for further analysis.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In section =
4.1, you identify invalid as =E2=80=9Cnot having a =E2=80=9CLabel-Index =
TLV, and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9Cconflicting =
as=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; If multiple different prefixes are =
received with the same label</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
index, all of the different prefixes MUST have their BGP =
Prefix-SID</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; attribute considered as =
&quot;conflicting&quot;.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>You do not =
define malformed in any section. &nbsp;Normally, a malformed attribute =
is an attribute that </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>does not abide =
by the defined attribute code, length, and value (that is the TLVs =
within the attribute].</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Is this the =
intent?&nbsp; If so, you might indicate what malformed is someplace in =
the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Yes =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll add text to =
section 6. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In this =
context, a malformed BGP Prefix-SID attribute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is one =
that cannot be parsed due to not meeting the minimum =
length</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;requiremen=
t or containing a TLV length that doesn't conform to =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;length constraints for the TLV or would =
exceed the attribute length.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I do not =
perceive how section 6=E2=80=99s text handles the valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute that is associated</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; &nbsp;The attribute is not malformed, invalid, or =
conflicting. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Perhaps you =
could call it =E2=80=9Cillegal usage=E2=80=9D. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;My =
suggested text below uses that term. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>IMHO, the case of a valid BGP Prefix SID =
attribute being associated with SRv6 SID</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>case needs to be addressed in the error handling =
section of the draft. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Since SRv6 has been removed from the =
document, there is no need to describe error handling behavior (see =
below). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Suggested =
textual changes to introduction to clearly state SRv6 is not supported. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Here=E2=80=99s my suggested =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Change 1: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Current/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; As =
described in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; to =
the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID =
consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>Here=E2=80=99s a =
proposed text that you might add: </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>New/As described =
in [</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing</a><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>], when SR is applied</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;to the MPLS dataplane ([</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-19#ref-=
I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls">I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl=
s</a><span style=3D'color:black'>]), the</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SID consists of a label.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indicates that SR routing =
can be applied to the IPv6 dataplane </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-6man-segment-rout=
ing-header] in a new v6 routing header with </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the SID encoded as an IPv6 =
address.&nbsp; The SR segment that uses this header =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is denoted as an SR SID. =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ok. =
I=E2=80=99d also add:</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The applicability and =
support for Segment Routing over IPv6 is beyond =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the scope of this =
document. </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Change 2 =
is then not necessary. </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Acee =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Change =
2: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Further =
down in the paragraph I suggest changing: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>to =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document describes the BGP extension to signal the BGP =
Prefix-</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SID.&nbsp; Specifically, this =
document defines a BGP attribute known as</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the =
BGP Prefix-SID attribute and specifies the rules to =
originate,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; receive, and handle error conditions =
for the attribute when</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; SR =
is applied to the MPLS dataplane. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This document does not specify how the BGP Prefix-SID attribute can =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;associated used with an SRv6 =
SID.&nbsp; A BGP Prefix-SID attribute </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is considered illegal use of =
this attribute and </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the attribute will be discarded =
(see section 6 for </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for details on error handling ). =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span =
style=3D'color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.5in'><span style=3D'color:black'> =
</span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p =
style=3D'margin-left:3.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></htm=
l>
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From: "Dhanendra Jain (dhjain)" <dhjain@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy-03.txt
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 02:58:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid review - Text clarifying removal of SRv6 case
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From: Pushpasis Sarkar <pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 14:26:21 +0530
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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>,  draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-node-admin-tag-extension-03.txt
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--000000000000f4f6ad056c9f5b74
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Hi Sue,

Thanks a lot for the review comments and many apologies for the late reply.
My day-job has been drowning me with loads of deliverables. Hence could not
check my mailbox earlier. I will revert back with resolutions by end of the
coming week.

Thanks once again and best regards,
-Pushpasis


On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 3:21 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

> This is a shepherd review of your draft after WG LC.
>
>  Please treat these as a WG LC call comment.
>
>
>
> Cheerily Sue Hares
>
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>
> *Overview:*  The draft is an addition to the BGP-LS feature
>
> set that is a natural outgrowth of existing work
>
> in the LSR working (OSPF and ISIS).
>
>
>
> *Status:* Major issue =E2=80=93 no error handling section
>
> Minor issues: manageability and security section.
>
>
>
> A)     Error handling comments
>
>
>
> RFC 7606 indicates different types of error procedures for
>
> NRLIs and attributes.  Page 9-10 indicates that typed NLRIs
>
> need to provide the details on what constitutes valid NLRIs.
>
>
>
> Normally, an error handling section within a NLRI
>
> indicates what is considered a malformed NLRI  (syntax error)
>
> or an invalid NLRI (content error).
>
>
>
> RFC7752 provides a list of questions to determine if the message is
>
> Malformed in section 6.6.2 (Fault management).
>
> Your draft as an augment to RFC7752 should provide
>
> error handling information regarding malformed TLVs (faults)
>
> and invalid content.
>
> ----
>
> *For Malformed TLVs*,  you have two open issues:
>
>
>
> 1.       Reserved fields of the Flag field
>
> Please specify what value the flag field=E2=80=99s reserve values can tak=
e.
>
> If you wish to have it transmitted as zero, and
>
> Receiver should ignore.  Please specify this point.
>
>
>
> 2.       Define what makes a malformed TLV
>
> You can do this within the text of figure 6 or
>
> In the paragraphs at the top of page 7.
>
> Do you consider inclusion of the Node Admin Tag TLV
>
> to be malformed if it is associated with something
>
> beside a Node Attribute?
>
>
>
> IHMO =E2=80=93 it seems like an invalid content, but
>
> It could be viewed either way.
>
> -------
>
> *For invalid content*, you have specify invalid content
>
> in the 3 paragraphs at the top of page 7 in section 3.1.
>
> The text in section 4 indicates how the text should be
>
> how the tag should be properly processed.
>
>
>
> The text in section 3.1 seems to indicate what content
>
> (origination and reception) is invalid.  However, you do not
>
> Indicate what you do with invalid Node Admin Tags.
>
>
>
> The choices could be:
>
> 1)      the entire Link State NLRI to be considered is invalid,
>
> 2)      the Node NLRI within the Link State NLRI is invalid
>
> 3)      the local node or remote node descriptors, the TLV is contained
> are all invalid
>
> 4)      just the Administrative Tag Sub-TLV is valid
>
>
>
> It is unclear from your document how this error is handled.
>
> -----------
>
>
>
> *Section 4, indicates the processing* of the
>
> content of a well-formed Sub-TLV with
>
> correct syntax.  If you feel error handling needs to
>
> report any handling of the SHOULD, MAY or MUST NOT clauses,
>
> you should add this to the error process.
>
>
>
> Section 5, indicates deployment processing.
>
> Again, if you feel error handling needs to
>
> Report any handling of the SHOULD or MAY clauses,
>
> Add this to the error reporting.
>
>
>
> IMHO =E2=80=93 I do not feel section 4 or 5 warrants specific
>
> protocol on the wire specification error reporting.
>
> I am fine with the text as it is .
>
> --------------
>
>
>
> *Lesser issues: *
>
>
>
> Section 6 Manageability
>
>
>
> Comment: Operational procedures are changing because you
>
> are re-originating =E2=80=9Cglobal=E2=80=9D scope node tags in another =
=E2=80=9Cnode admin
>
> tag=E2=80=9D TLV.   You break > 16383 node administrative groups down
>
> into multiple tags.
>
>
>
> This added process does not simply copy information from
>
> ISIS or OSPF as it exists.  Manageability would indicate some
>
> logging of these additional changes will or will not occur.
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Section 7 =E2=80=93 Security considerations
>
>
>
> Since the tagging of nodes may cause avoidance of a set of
>
> Nodes ( per section 5), the security section needs to include
>
> Information on why this cannot be done to harm
>
>
>
> Editorial NITs:
>
> Acknowledgements =E2=80=93 need to be changed from TBA.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--000000000000f4f6ad056c9f5b74
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Sue,<div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot for the review com=
ments and many apologies for the late reply. My day-job has been drowning m=
e with loads of deliverables. Hence could not check my mailbox earlier. I w=
ill revert back with resolutions by end of the coming week.=C2=A0</div><div=
><br></div><div>Thanks once again and best regards,</div><div>-Pushpasis</d=
iv><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 3:21 AM, Susan Hares <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D=
"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549WordSection1"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a shepherd review of your draft after WG LC. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0Please treat the=
se as a WG LC call comment. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheerily Sue Hares <u></u><u></u><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Overview:</b>=C2=A0 =
The draft is an addition to the BGP-LS feature <u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">set that is a natural outgrowth of existing work<u></u><u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">in the LSR working (OSPF and ISIS).=C2=A0 <u><=
/u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><b>Status:</b> Major issue =E2=80=93 no error handling section<u><=
/u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Minor issues: manageability and securi=
ty section. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
p><p class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:=
.25in"><u></u><span>A)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Er=
ror handling comments <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">RFC 7606 indicates different types of =
error procedures for<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">NRLIs and attr=
ibutes.=C2=A0 Page 9-10 indicates that typed NLRIs<u></u><u></u></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">need to provide the details on what constitutes valid NLRIs=
. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Normally, an error handling section within a NLRI <u></u><u>=
</u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">indicates what is considered a malformed NLR=
I =C2=A0(syntax error) <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">or an inval=
id NLRI (content error). <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">RFC7752 provides a list of question=
s to determine if the message is <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">M=
alformed in section 6.6.2 (Fault management). <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">Your draft as an augment to RFC7752 should provide <u></u><u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">error handling information regarding malformed=
 TLVs (faults) <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">and invalid content=
. =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">----<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>For Malformed TLVs</b>, =C2=A0you have two open=
 issues: <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
p class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span>1.<span sty=
le=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 </span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Reserved fields of =
the Flag field <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please specify what=
 value the flag field=E2=80=99s reserve values can take.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you wish to have it transmitted as zero, an=
d<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Receiver should ignore.=C2=A0 Ple=
ase specify this point. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549MsoListParagraph"><u></u><s=
pan>2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Defi=
ne what makes a malformed TLV<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">You c=
an do this within the text of figure 6 or <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">In the paragraphs at the top of page 7. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Do you consider inclusion of the Node Admin Tag TLV<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">to be malformed if it is associated with so=
mething <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">beside a Node Attribute? <=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">IHMO =E2=80=93 it seems like an invalid content, but <u></u><u>=
</u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It could be viewed either way. <u></u><u></u=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-------<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><b>For invalid content</b>, you have specify invalid content <u></u><u></u=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">in the 3 paragraphs at the top of page 7 in sec=
tion 3.1.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The text in section 4 ind=
icates how the text should be <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">how =
the tag should be properly processed. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The text in section 3.1 =
seems to indicate what content <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">(or=
igination and reception) is invalid.=C2=A0 However, you do not <u></u><u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Indicate what you do with invalid Node Admin T=
ags. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">The choices could be: <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"m_-48=
27875420831824549MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span>1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt=
 &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span>=
<u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>the entire Link State NLRI to be considered=
 is invalid, <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549MsoListPar=
agraph"><u></u><span>2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></=
span>the Node NLRI within the Link State NLRI is invalid <u></u><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span>3)<span st=
yle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 </span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>the local node or remote =
node descriptors, the TLV is contained are all invalid<u></u><u></u></p><p =
class=3D"m_-4827875420831824549MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span>4)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>just the Administrative Tag S=
ub-TLV is valid <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is unclear from your document how this erro=
r is handled. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-----------<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><b>Section 4, indicates the processing</b> of the <u></u><u></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">content of a well-formed Sub-TLV with <u></u><u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">correct syntax.=C2=A0 If you feel error handling ne=
eds to <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">report any handling of the =
SHOULD, MAY or MUST NOT clauses, <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">y=
ou should add this to the error process. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 5, indicates =
deployment processing. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Again, if y=
ou feel error handling needs to <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Re=
port any handling of the SHOULD or MAY clauses,<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Add this to the error reporting. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMHO =E2=80=
=93 I do not feel section 4 or 5 warrants specific <u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">protocol on the wire specification error reporting. <u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am fine with the text as it is .<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">--------------<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Lesser iss=
ues: <u></u><u></u></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 6 Manageability <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comment: Operati=
onal procedures are changing because you <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">are re-originating =E2=80=9Cglobal=E2=80=9D scope node tags in anoth=
er =E2=80=9Cnode admin<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">tag=E2=80=9D=
 TLV. =C2=A0=C2=A0You break &gt; 16383 node administrative groups down<u></=
u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">into multiple tags.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
This added process does not simply copy information from <u></u><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">ISIS or OSPF as it exists.=C2=A0 Manageability would=
 indicate some <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">logging of these ad=
ditional changes will or will not occur. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">---<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 7 =E2=80=93 Security considerations<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">Since the tagging of nodes may cause avoidance of a set of <u></u><u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nodes ( per section 5), the security section n=
eeds to include<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Information on why =
this cannot be done to harm <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Editorial NITs: <u></u><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acknowledgements =E2=80=93 need to be changed from T=
BA. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></=
blockquote></div><br></div>

--000000000000f4f6ad056c9f5b74--


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Extended Message support for BGP
        Authors         : Randy Bush
                          Keyur Patel
                          Dave Ward
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2018-05-21

Abstract:
   The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096
   octets.  As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other
   features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond
   4096 octets.  This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by
   providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message
   size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN
   message.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25

A diff from the previous version is available at:
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From nobody Mon May 21 18:17:25 2018
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Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification@ietf.org, Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, idr-chairs@ietf.org, jie.dong@huawei.com, idr@ietf.org
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Subject: [Idr] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with COMMENT)
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Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there a pointer to a formal definition for "full session reset" that you
could provide at the end of this text?

  At a high level, this document can be summed up as follows.  When a
   BGP session is reset, both speakers operate as "Receiving Speakers"
   according to [RFC4724], meaning they retain each other's routes.
   This is also true for HOLDTIME expiration.  The functionality can be
   defeated using a "Hard Reset" subcode for the BGP NOTIFICATION Cease
   Error code.  If a Hard Reset is used, a full session reset is
   performed.



From nobody Mon May 21 19:45:07 2018
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Subject: [Idr] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with COMMENT)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your work on this document. I have only one very small question to ask.

Â§4:

>  When a BGP speaker resets its session due to a HOLDTIME expiry, it
>  should generate the relevant BGP NOTIFICATION message as mentioned in

Is this intended to be "should" or "SHOULD"?



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure that this has already been discussed somewhere, and that I'll be able
to quickly clear my DISCUSS once pointed at it, but: "To put an upper bound on
the amount of time a router retains the stale routes, an implementation MUST
support a (configurable) timer, called the "stale timer", that imposes this
upper bound. A suggested default value for the stale timer is 180 seconds. An
implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer (i.e., to provide an
infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so by default."

The "infinite retention time" part of this makes me deeply uncomfortable -- I
can see a good reason for the stale timer, and the default "feels" fine to me,
but having an infinite retention time (or, really anything over 10 to 15
minutes) feels like a really dangerous idea, and that it will come back and
bite.

I'm hoping that I'm missing something obvious, but can you please explain under
what conditions an infinite retention policy makes sense? It seems like there
would be multiple opportunities for blackholing traffic with this.





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Hi Warren,

To understand this proposal a little lecture of document which was proposed
before this one and which in fact triggered this extension can be helpful:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-persistence-03

Effectively here authors propose to allow BGP speaker to run in a headless
mode indefinitely. The root of the idea was born when pure control plane
single vendor RRs go down for hours and otherwise healthy PEs running in
healthy network stop serving 1000s of VPN customers.

I think at this stage I will refrain from stating an opinion on it. All I
can say is that operators today can use so many other dangerous knobs in
various address families of BGP that adding this configuration flexibility
to GR stale timer option here will rather not make it much worse :)

Kind regards,
Robert.


On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:

> Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm sure that this has already been discussed somewhere, and that I'll be
> able
> to quickly clear my DISCUSS once pointed at it, but: "To put an upper
> bound on
> the amount of time a router retains the stale routes, an implementation
> MUST
> support a (configurable) timer, called the "stale timer", that imposes this
> upper bound. A suggested default value for the stale timer is 180 seconds.
> An
> implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer (i.e., to
> provide an
> infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so by default."
>
> The "infinite retention time" part of this makes me deeply uncomfortable
> -- I
> can see a good reason for the stale timer, and the default "feels" fine to
> me,
> but having an infinite retention time (or, really anything over 10 to 15
> minutes) feels like a really dangerous idea, and that it will come back and
> bite.
>
> I'm hoping that I'm missing something obvious, but can you please explain
> under
> what conditions an infinite retention policy makes sense? It seems like
> there
> would be multiple opportunities for blackholing traffic with this.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Warren,</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">To understand this proposal a little lecture of do=
cument which was proposed before this one and which in fact triggered this =
extension can be helpful:=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><a hr=
ef=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-persistence-03" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-uttaro-idr-bgp-<wbr>pe=
rsistence-03</a></font><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D=
"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Effectively here authors prop=
ose to allow BGP speaker to run in a headless mode indefinitely. The root o=
f the idea was born when pure control plane single vendor RRs go down for h=
ours and otherwise healthy PEs running in healthy network stop serving 1000=
s of VPN customers.=C2=A0</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font fa=
ce=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I think at th=
is stage I will refrain from stating an opinion on it. All I can say is tha=
t operators today can use so many other dangerous knobs in various address =
families of BGP that adding this configuration flexibility to GR stale time=
r option here will rather not make it much worse :)=C2=A0</span></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif">Kind regards,</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><=
font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Robert.</font></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Warren Kumari <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:warren@kumari.net" target=3D"_blank">warren@=
kumari.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Warren K=
umari has entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-<wbr>notification-15: Discuss<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/<=
wbr>statement/discuss-criteria.<wbr>html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notificat=
ion/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wb=
r>doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-<wbr>notification/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
<br>
I&#39;m sure that this has already been discussed somewhere, and that I&#39=
;ll be able<br>
to quickly clear my DISCUSS once pointed at it, but: &quot;To put an upper =
bound on<br>
the amount of time a router retains the stale routes, an implementation MUS=
T<br>
support a (configurable) timer, called the &quot;stale timer&quot;, that im=
poses this<br>
upper bound. A suggested default value for the stale timer is 180 seconds. =
An<br>
implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer (i.e., to provid=
e an<br>
infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so by default.&quot;<br>
<br>
The &quot;infinite retention time&quot; part of this makes me deeply uncomf=
ortable -- I<br>
can see a good reason for the stale timer, and the default &quot;feels&quot=
; fine to me,<br>
but having an infinite retention time (or, really anything over 10 to 15<br=
>
minutes) feels like a really dangerous idea, and that it will come back and=
<br>
bite.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m hoping that I&#39;m missing something obvious, but can you please e=
xplain under<br>
what conditions an infinite retention policy makes sense? It seems like the=
re<br>
would be multiple opportunities for blackholing traffic with this.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/idr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--000000000000ba20b8056cd043de--


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Warren,

> On May 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
> I'm sure that this has already been discussed somewhere, and that I'll =
be able
> to quickly clear my DISCUSS once pointed at it, but: "To put an upper =
bound on
> the amount of time a router retains the stale routes, an =
implementation MUST
> support a (configurable) timer, called the "stale timer", that imposes =
this
> upper bound. A suggested default value for the stale timer is 180 =
seconds. An
> implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer (i.e., to =
provide an
> infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so by default."
>=20
> The "infinite retention time" part of this makes me deeply =
uncomfortable -- I
> can see a good reason for the stale timer, and the default "feels" =
fine to me,
> but having an infinite retention time (or, really anything over 10 to =
15
> minutes) feels like a really dangerous idea, and that it will come =
back and
> bite.

This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background and =
suggest shame on you. :-)

For my part, I would rather see this option discussed and given a caveat =
rather than elided from the specification.  Otherwise you simply have =
vendors who've implemented such an option and someone wagging their =
finger at their supposed non-conformance.  And it's usually some =
operator that wanted the thing present in the first place!


>=20
> I'm hoping that I'm missing something obvious, but can you please =
explain under
> what conditions an infinite retention policy makes sense? It seems =
like there
> would be multiple opportunities for blackholing traffic with this.

There are situations, especially closed L3VPN networks, where infinite =
retention is potentially desired.  In situations where such a knob is =
configured and the operator decides that the underlying behavior needs =
to be addressed, a reset of the necessary session state could be done.  =
E.g. deconfigure the peer.

It should be noted that earlier forms of the long lived graceful restart =
feature, which this was intended to service, tried to provide =
significant caveats about not applying the feature to address families =
like those carrying the Internet for exactly the reason you're concerned =
with.


-- Jeff


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=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B


> This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background and
> suggest shame on you. :-)
>


=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is difference=
 between sound
operational reasons and simply bad network design.

If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact also
routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) probability
that all implementations would go down on given trigger is highly reduced -
perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no one would propose
to make BGP state persistent ;-).

Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for wrong
choices of network architecture.

Best,
R.

--00000000000072999e056cd0847e
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=
=E2=80=8B</span><br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">This is a point where I point at your supposed opeati=
onal background and suggest shame on you. :-)<br></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BI think =E2=
=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is difference between sound opera=
tional reasons and simply bad network design.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"=
><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small">If someone would deploy in a network route re=
flectors (and in fact also routers) from multiple vendors (let&#39;s be bra=
ve and say 3 or 4) probability that all implementations would go down on gi=
ven trigger is highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage would =
occur and no one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).=C2=A0</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Here my only worry is that=
 we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for wrong choices of network archit=
ecture.=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Be=
st,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small">R.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

--00000000000072999e056cd0847e--


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Robert,

> On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> =E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B
> =20
> This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background =
and suggest shame on you. :-)
>=20
>=20
> =E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is =
difference between sound operational reasons and simply bad network =
design.=20
>=20
> If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact =
also routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) =
probability that all implementations would go down on given trigger is =
highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no =
one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).=20
>=20
> Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for =
wrong choices of network architecture.=20

Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe Warren is =
likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is more a jab at =
the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea usually being =
something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of the =
operators/customers.  We call such features "rope (to hang yourself =
with)" for good cause.  Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a =
customer he may have asked for in the first place. :-)

While I generally sympathize with your approach to network heterogeneity =
as a mechanism for achieving better fault tolerance, I also consider it =
optimistic.

-- Jeff


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Robert,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, =
Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
class=3D"">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B</span><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<br class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">This is a point where I point at your =
supposed opeational background and suggest shame on you. :-)<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B=
I think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is difference =
between sound operational reasons and simply bad network =
design.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">If =
someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact also =
routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) =
probability that all implementations would go down on given trigger is =
highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no =
one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Here my =
only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for wrong =
choices of network =
architecture.&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><=
br class=3D""></div>Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad =
(I believe Warren is likely to have taken it with its original intent), =
this is more a jab at the focus on a knob that is not usually a good =
idea usually being something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure =
of the operators/customers. &nbsp;We call such features "rope (to hang =
yourself with)" for good cause. &nbsp;Warren is thus pointing out the =
thing that as a customer he may have asked for in the first place. =
:-)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>While I generally sympathize =
with your approach to network heterogeneity as a mechanism for achieving =
better fault tolerance, I also consider it optimistic.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>-- Jeff</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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Tue, May 22, 2018 at 09:35:13PM +0200, Robert Raszuk:
> I think it should be pointed out that there is difference between sound
> operational reasons and simply bad network design.

be careful not to lecture operators on their financial, regulatory or other
limitations.  Let them make the informed decisions best for their constraints.


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From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 17:37:43 -0400
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To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Robert,
>
> On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>> This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background and
>> suggest shame on you. :-)
>>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is differen=
ce between sound
> operational reasons and simply bad network design.
>
> If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact also
> routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) probabilit=
y
> that all implementations would go down on given trigger is highly reduced=
 -
> perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no one would propose
> to make BGP state persistent ;-).
>
> Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for
> wrong choices of network architecture.
>
>
> Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe Warren is
> likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is more a jab at
> the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea usually being somethi=
ng
> that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of the operators/customers.
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA=E2=80=8B



>  We call such features "rope (to hang yourself with)" for good cause.
> Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he may have aske=
d
> for in the first place. :-)
>

=E2=80=8BYeah, but there is also a difference between "=E2=80=8BThis is mig=
ht a bad idea,
but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?" and "Let's put it in
a Standards Track document, with no warnings. What could go wrong?!" :-P

Perhaps adding something like:
"An implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer
(i.e., to provide an infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so
by default. Note that long (or infinite) retention time may cause
operational issues, and should be enabled with care."
or:
The impact of long retention times should be carefully considered
or:
This option should only be used by consenting adults
:-)

=E2=80=8BAnyway, the fact that this is in "updating" / "new" text means tha=
t we
need to be careful not to overstep, but I think that having some warning
would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in the foot.

=E2=80=8BW=E2=80=8B



> While I generally sympathize with your approach to network heterogeneity
> as a mechanism for achieving better fault tolerance, I also consider it
> optimistic.
>
> -- Jeff
>
>

--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in
the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
pants.
   ---maf

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tu=
e, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.or=
g">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Robert,<div><br><div><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net<=
/a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"gmail-m_-4967889229731026860Apple-intercha=
nge-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=
=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B</span><br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">This is a point where I point at you=
r supposed opeational background and suggest shame on you. :-)<br></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out =
that there is difference between sound operational reasons and simply bad n=
etwork design.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">If someone would deploy in a network route reflec=
tors (and in fact also routers) from multiple vendors (let&#39;s be brave a=
nd say 3 or 4) probability that all implementations would go down on given =
trigger is highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage would occu=
r and no one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).=C2=A0</div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Her=
e my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for wrong ch=
oices of network architecture.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></div></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div>Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broa=
d (I believe Warren is likely to have taken it with its original intent), t=
his is more a jab at the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea us=
ually being something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of the op=
erators/customers. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA">https://www.youtube.co=
m/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA</a><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=
=E2=80=8B</span></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div>=
=C2=A0We call such features &quot;rope (to hang yourself with)&quot; for go=
od cause.=C2=A0 Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he=
 may have asked for in the first place. :-)</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,san=
s-serif">=E2=80=8BYeah, but there is also a difference between &quot;=E2=80=
=8BThis is might a bad idea, but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, =
please?&quot; and &quot;Let&#39;s put it in a Standards Track document, wit=
h no warnings. What could go wrong?!&quot; :-P</div><div><br></div><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Perhaps =
adding something like:=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">&quot;An implementation MAY provide the=
 option to disable the timer</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif">(i.e., to provide an infinite retention time) =
but MUST NOT do so</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:v=
erdana,sans-serif">by default. Note that long (or infinite) retention time =
may cause</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sa=
ns-serif">operational issues, and should be enabled with care.&quot;</div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">or:</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Th=
e impact of long retention times should be carefully considered</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">or:</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This op=
tion should only be used by consenting adults=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">:-)</div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-seri=
f">=E2=80=8BAnyway, the fact that this is in &quot;updating&quot; / &quot;n=
ew&quot; text means that we need to be careful not to overstep, but I think=
 that having some warning would be useful to help minimize people shooting =
themselves in the foot.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=8BW=E2=80=8B</div><br></div><div><br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wr=
ap:break-word"><div><div><br></div><div>While I generally sympathize with y=
our approach to network heterogeneity as a mechanism for achieving better f=
ault tolerance, I also consider it optimistic.</div><div><br></div><div>-- =
Jeff</div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><=
div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">I don&#39;t=
 think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the fi=
rst place.<br>This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later e=
xpressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that p=
air of pants.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf</div></div>

--000000000000a1ae09056cd23cb6--


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From: "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
CC: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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From: "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
CC: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 22:04:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
CC: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 07:19:23 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Link-State extensions for Segment Routing
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Ketan Talaulikar
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2018-05-23

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end
   paths by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called
   "segments".  These segments are advertised by routing protocols e.g.
   by the link state routing protocols (IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) within
   IGP topologies.

   This draft defines extensions to the BGP Link-state address-family in
   order to carry segment routing information via BGP.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From nobody Wed May 23 03:53:10 2018
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COMMENT:
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Hello,

primarily, I strongly support Benjamin's COMMENT.
Section 3.1 is confusing and one may not understand the exact format of the
NOTIFICATION to send in the context of this draft.

minor comment:
Isn't the use of "protocol" in "BGP protocol" redundant?



From nobody Wed May 23 10:12:51 2018
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please consider using the boilerplate from RFC 8174 instead of 2119. There are
multiple lower case instances of normative keywords; the 8174 boilerplate is
designed to handle that.



From nobody Wed May 23 12:42:53 2018
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From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
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On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:19 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

> Warren, all
>
>
>
> I would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence warning
> (possibly in the operational/management consideration section)
>

=E2=80=8BAwesome, thanks. Mainly I wanted to make sure it had been consider=
ed --
I'll go clear my DISCUSS.


>
>
> That being said, since you asked for a discussion:
>
> 1) +1 to James=E2=80=99 email
>
>
>
> 2) Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification is making things safer as
> it is _*adding*_ a mandated timer to Graceful Restart (GR). IOW, with
> current BGP GR RFC one may have no way of limiting this duration.
>
>
>
> 3) I may be wrong (please correct), but my reading of the BGP spec is tha=
t
> RFC 4271 allows for an infinite Hold Time timer (when set to 0).
>
>
=E2=80=8BYelp! Yeah, this seems to be there from RFC1771, and from RFC1654 =
before
that. I seem to remember having actually relied on that back in ~1998 to
stop keep alives from making dial-on-demand sessions happen... and now I
feel odl.



> 4) There is no way we=E2=80=99ll all agree on what =E2=80=9Cmax value=E2=
=80=9D should be in
> general. e.g. you picked =E2=80=9C10 to 15 minutes=E2=80=9D while BGP Gra=
ceful Restart
> already allows for a 68 minutes restart time and BGP for a 18 hours Hold
> Time (and the effect of those timers seems =E2=80=9Cworse=E2=80=9D that t=
he stale time
> IMHO). At some point, e.g. 1 hour, this will be handled by a human; so
> =E2=80=9CInfinite=E2=80=9D mostly means that we don=E2=80=99t want the BG=
P process to make the
> decision, which is deferred to a human (or any kind of SDN controller in =
a
> post human world)
>
>
=E2=80=8B42!
=E2=80=8B
Thanks all,
W


>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Best regards,
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Warren Kumari
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38 PM
> *To:* Jeffrey Haas
> *Cc:* idr@ietf. org; The IESG; Robert Raszuk
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
>
>
> On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background and
> suggest shame on you. :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is differen=
ce between sound
> operational reasons and simply bad network design.
>
>
>
> If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact also
> routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) probabilit=
y
> that all implementations would go down on given trigger is highly reduced=
 -
> perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no one would propose
> to make BGP state persistent ;-).
>
>
>
> Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for
> wrong choices of network architecture.
>
>
>
> Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe Warren is
> likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is more a jab at
> the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea usually being somethi=
ng
> that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of the operators/customers.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>
>
>  We call such features "rope (to hang yourself with)" for good cause.
> Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he may have aske=
d
> for in the first place. :-)
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BYeah, but there is also a difference between "=E2=80=8BThis is m=
ight a bad idea,
> but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?" and "Let's put it =
in
> a Standards Track document, with no warnings. What could go wrong?!" :-P
>
>
>
> Perhaps adding something like:
>
> "An implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer
>
> (i.e., to provide an infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so
>
> by default. Note that long (or infinite) retention time may cause
>
> operational issues, and should be enabled with care."
>
> or:
>
> The impact of long retention times should be carefully considered
>
> or:
>
> This option should only be used by consenting adults
>
> :-)
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BAnyway, the fact that this is in "updating" / "new" text means t=
hat we
> need to be careful not to overstep, but I think that having some warning
> would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in the foot.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BW=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> While I generally sympathize with your approach to network heterogeneity
> as a mechanism for achieving better fault tolerance, I also consider it
> optimistic.
>
>
>
> -- Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea
> in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
> pants.
>    ---maf
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
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n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>

--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in
the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
pants.
   ---maf

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
sans-serif"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On We=
d, May 23, 2018 at 3:19 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com"=
>bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2518038657588194298WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Warren, all<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I would person=
ally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence warning (possibly in th=
e operational/management consideration section)</span></p></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=8BAwesome, thanks. Mainly I wanted to make su=
re it had been considered -- I&#39;ll go clear my DISCUSS.</div></div><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" v=
link=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-2518038657588194298WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">That being sai=
d, since you asked for a discussion:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">1) +1 to James=
=E2=80=99 email<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">2) Note that d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification is making things safer as it is _<i>addin=
g</i>_ a mandated timer to Graceful Restart (GR). IOW, with
 current BGP GR RFC one may have no way of limiting this duration.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">3) I may be wr=
ong (please correct), but my reading of the BGP spec is that RFC 4271 allow=
s for an infinite Hold Time timer (when set to 0).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u></span>=
</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=8BYelp! Yeah, this seems=
 to be there from RFC1771, and from RFC1654 before that. I seem to remember=
 having actually relied on that back in ~1998 to stop keep alives from maki=
ng dial-on-demand sessions happen... and now I feel odl.</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style=3D"col=
or:black;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br></span></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span sty=
le=3D"color:black;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">=C2=A0</span=
></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-2518038657588194298WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">4) There is no=
 way we=E2=80=99ll all agree on what
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
black">max value=E2=80=9D should be in general. e.g. you picked =E2=80=9C</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US">10 to 15 minutes</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;c=
olor:black">=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">while BGP Graceful Restart alr=
eady allows for a 68 minutes restart time and BGP for a 18 hours Hold Time =
(and the effect of those timers seems =E2=80=9Cworse=E2=80=9D that the stal=
e
 time IMHO). At some point, e.g. 1 hour, this will be handled by a human; s=
o =E2=80=9CInfinite=E2=80=9D mostly means that we don=E2=80=99t want the BG=
P process to make the decision, which is deferred to a human (or any kind o=
f SDN controller in a post human world)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u></span>=
</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=8B42!</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=8B</div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Th=
anks all,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sa=
ns-serif">W</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lan=
g=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-251803865758819429=
8WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Best regards,<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Warren Kumari<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeffrey Haas<br>
<b>Cc:</b> id</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">r@ietf. org; The IESG; Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari&#39;s Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; wro=
te:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Robert,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a point where I point at your supposed opeat=
ional background and suggest shame on you. :-)<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that th=
ere is difference between sound operational reasons and simply bad network =
design.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and=
 in fact also routers) from multiple vendors (let&#39;s be brave and say 3 =
or 4) probability that all implementations would go down on
 given trigger is highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage wou=
ld occur and no one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) t=
o cover for wrong choices of network architecture.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad =
(I believe Warren is likely to have taken it with its original intent), thi=
s is more a jab at the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea usua=
lly being something that ends up in
 code mostly at the pressure of the operators/customers. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZw=
b7OA" target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA</a><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=
=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0We call such features &quot;rope (to hang your=
self with)&quot; for good cause.=C2=A0 Warren is thus pointing out the thin=
g that as a customer he may have asked for in the first place. :-)<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Yeah, but there is also a difference between &=
quot;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;">This
 is might a bad idea, but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?=
&quot; and &quot;Let&#39;s put it in a Standards Track document, with no wa=
rnings. What could go wrong?!&quot; :-P<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Perhaps adding something like:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;An implementation MAY provide the option to disabl=
e the timer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">(i.e., to provide an infinite retention time) but MUST N=
OT do so<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">by default. Note that long (or infinite) retention time =
may cause<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">operational issues, and should be enabled with care.&quo=
t;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">or:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">The impact of long retention times should be carefully c=
onsidered<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">or:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">This option should only be used by consenting adults=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">:-)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Anyway, the fact that this is in &quot;updatin=
g&quot; / &quot;new&quot; text means that we need to be careful not to over=
step, but I think that having some
 warning would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in the=
 foot.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">W</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=8B</span><span style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">While I generally sympathize with your approach to n=
etwork heterogeneity as a mechanism for achieving better fault tolerance, I=
 also consider it optimistic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- Jeff<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#39;t think the execution is relevant when it =
was obviously a bad idea in the first place.<br>
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr=
et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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</pre></div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">I don&#39;t t=
hink the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the firs=
t place.<br>This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later exp=
ressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pai=
r of pants.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf</div></div>

--000000000000b0d6ac056ce4bcab--


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Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for addressing my concerns / the clue bat.



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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "'Warren Kumari'" <warren@kumari.net>
Cc: "'idr@ietf. org'" <idr@ietf.org>, "'UTTARO, JAMES'" <ju1738@att.com>, "'The IESG'" <iesg@ietf.org>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/apqOhBgGIhQmZr3qi8LvNvZeqkw>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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Bruno and Warren:=20

=20

Warren has approved so this message is just a follow-up on the message =
stream.=20

=20

As to specifying =E2=80=9C0=E2=80=9D in Hold Time Timer for RFC4271, the =
operative text is the following:

=20

   If the negotiated Hold Time interval is zero, then periodic KEEPALIVE

   messages MUST NOT be sent.  (section 4.4)=20

=20

This RFC4271 addition (based on deployments)  provided a less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D BGP with Keepalives=20

for connection that did not have the need for the =
=E2=80=9CKEEPALIVE=E2=80=9D heartbeat.=20

=20

Whether this is an infinite timer or something else is a discussion =
which is academic. =20

The important part is the needs of the operators. =20

=20

RFC1267 to RFC4271 changed this because the operators needed the less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D KEEPALIVE BGP.   IMHO GR notification improves =
the situation from RFC4271.   =20

=20

Sue=20

=20

PS - As far as I can tell the state machines for these actions still =
hang together with all the changes.  However, I=E2=80=99d love to hear =
from anyone if there is a problem.=20

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 AM
To: Warren Kumari
Cc: idr@ietf. org; UTTARO, JAMES; The IESG; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)

=20

Warren, all

=20

I would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence =
warning (possibly in the operational/management consideration section)

=20

That being said, since you asked for a discussion:

1) +1 to James=E2=80=99 email

=20

2) Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification is making things safer =
as it is _adding_ a mandated timer to Graceful Restart (GR). IOW, with =
current BGP GR RFC one may have no way of limiting this duration.

=20

3) I may be wrong (please correct), but my reading of the BGP spec is =
that RFC 4271 allows for an infinite Hold Time timer (when set to 0).

=20

4) There is no way we=E2=80=99ll all agree on what =E2=80=9Cmax =
value=E2=80=9D should be in general. e.g. you picked =E2=80=9C10 to 15 =
minutes=E2=80=9D while BGP Graceful Restart already allows for a 68 =
minutes restart time and BGP for a 18 hours Hold Time (and the effect of =
those timers seems =E2=80=9Cworse=E2=80=9D that the stale time IMHO). At =
some point, e.g. 1 hour, this will be handled by a human; so =
=E2=80=9CInfinite=E2=80=9D mostly means that we don=E2=80=99t want the =
BGP process to make the decision, which is deferred to a human (or any =
kind of SDN controller in a post human world)

=20

Thanks,

Best regards,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Warren Kumari
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38 PM
To: Jeffrey Haas
Cc: idr@ietf. org; The IESG; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)

=20

=20

=20

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

Robert,

=20

On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

=20

=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B

=20

This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background and =
suggest shame on you. :-)

=20

=20

=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is =
difference between sound operational reasons and simply bad network =
design.=20

=20

If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact also =
routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) =
probability that all implementations would go down on given trigger is =
highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no =
one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).=20

=20

Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for =
wrong choices of network architecture.=20

=20

Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe Warren is =
likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is more a jab at =
the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea usually being =
something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of the =
operators/customers.=20

=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA=E2=80=8B

=20

=20

 We call such features "rope (to hang yourself with)" for good cause.  =
Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he may have =
asked for in the first place. :-)

=20

=E2=80=8BYeah, but there is also a difference between "=E2=80=8BThis is =
might a bad idea, but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?" =
and "Let's put it in a Standards Track document, with no warnings. What =
could go wrong?!" :-P

=20

Perhaps adding something like:=20

"An implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer

(i.e., to provide an infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so

by default. Note that long (or infinite) retention time may cause

operational issues, and should be enabled with care."

or:

The impact of long retention times should be carefully considered

or:

This option should only be used by consenting adults=20

:-)

=20

=E2=80=8BAnyway, the fact that this is in "updating" / "new" text means =
that we need to be careful not to overstep, but I think that having some =
warning would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in =
the foot.

=20

=E2=80=8BW=E2=80=8B

=20

=20

=20

While I generally sympathize with your approach to network heterogeneity =
as a mechanism for achieving better fault tolerance, I also consider it =
optimistic.

=20

-- Jeff

=20




=20

--=20

I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea =
in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing =
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of =
pants.
   ---maf

_________________________________________________________________________=
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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=20
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno and Warren: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Warren has approved so this message is just a follow-up on the =
message stream. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As to specifying =E2=80=9C0=E2=80=9D in Hold Time Timer for RFC4271, =
the operative text is the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the negotiated Hold Time interval is =
zero, then periodic KEEPALIVE<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=C2=A0=C2=A0 messages MUST NOT be sent.=C2=A0 (section =
4.4) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This RFC4271 addition (based on deployments) =C2=A0provided a less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D BGP with Keepalives <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>for connection that did not have the need for the =
=E2=80=9CKEEPALIVE=E2=80=9D heartbeat. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Whether this is an infinite timer or something else is a discussion =
which is academic. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The important part is the needs of the operators.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>RFC1267 to RFC4271 changed this because the operators needed the less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D KEEPALIVE BGP.=C2=A0 =C2=A0IMHO GR notification =
improves the situation from RFC4271. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>PS - As far as I can tell the state machines for these actions still =
hang together with all the changes. =C2=A0However, I=E2=80=99d love to =
hear from anyone if there is a problem. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 23, 2018 =
3:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> Warren Kumari<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf. org; UTTARO, =
JAMES; The IESG; Robert Raszuk<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Warren =
Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with =
DISCUSS)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>W=
arren, all<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
 would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence warning =
(possibly in the operational/management consideration =
section)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hat being said, since you asked for a =
discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>1=
) +1 to James=E2=80=99 email<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>2=
) Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification is making things safer as =
it is _<i>adding</i>_ a mandated timer to Graceful Restart (GR). IOW, =
with current BGP GR RFC one may have no way of limiting this =
duration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>3=
) I may be wrong (please correct), but my reading of the BGP spec is =
that RFC 4271 allows for an infinite Hold Time timer (when set to =
0).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
) There is no way we=E2=80=99ll all agree on what </span>=E2=80=9C<span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>m=
ax value=E2=80=9D should be in general. e.g. you picked =
=E2=80=9C</span>10 to 15 minutes<span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=
=80=9D</span> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>w=
hile BGP Graceful Restart already allows for a 68 minutes restart time =
and BGP for a 18 hours Hold Time (and the effect of those timers seems =
=E2=80=9Cworse=E2=80=9D that the stale time IMHO). At some point, e.g. 1 =
hour, this will be handled by a human; so =E2=80=9CInfinite=E2=80=9D =
mostly means that we don=E2=80=99t want the BGP process to make the =
decision, which is deferred to a human (or any kind of SDN controller in =
a post human world)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
est regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Warren =
Kumari<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Jeffrey Haas<br><b>Cc:</b> id</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>r@ietf. =
org; The IESG; Robert Raszuk<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Warren =
Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with =
DISCUSS)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM =
Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8BHi =
Jeff,=E2=80=8B</span><span lang=3DFR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>This is a point where I point =
at your supposed opeational background and suggest shame on you. =
:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit =
should be pointed out that there is difference between sound operational =
reasons and simply bad network =
design.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If someone would deploy in a =
network route reflectors (and in fact also routers) from multiple =
vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) probability that all =
implementations would go down on given trigger is highly reduced - =
perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no one would =
propose to make BGP state persistent =
;-).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here my only worry is that we =
are stretching protocol(s) to cover for wrong choices of network =
architecture.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe =
Warren is likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is =
more a jab at the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea =
usually being something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of =
the operators/customers. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR><a =
href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA">https://www.youtub=
e.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA</a></span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;We call =
such features &quot;rope (to hang yourself with)&quot; for good =
cause.&nbsp; Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he =
may have asked for in the first place. =
:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yeah, but there =
is also a difference between &quot;</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>This is might a =
bad idea, but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?&quot; =
and &quot;Let's put it in a Standards Track document, with no warnings. =
What could go wrong?!&quot; :-P<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Perhaps adding something =
like:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&quot;An implementation MAY =
provide the option to disable the =
timer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>(i.e., to provide =
an infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do =
so<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>by default. Note that long =
(or infinite) retention time may =
cause<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>operational =
issues, and should be enabled with =
care.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>or:<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>The impact of long =
retention times should be carefully =
considered<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>or:<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>This option should only be =
used by consenting adults&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Anyway, the fact =
that this is in &quot;updating&quot; / &quot;new&quot; text means that =
we need to be careful not to overstep, but I think that having some =
warning would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in =
the foot.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>W</span><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>While I generally sympathize with your =
approach to network heterogeneity as a mechanism for achieving better =
fault tolerance, I also consider it =
optimistic.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>-- =
Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR><br =
clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously =
a bad idea in the first place.<br>This is like putting rabid weasels in =
your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those =
particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;---maf<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
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you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
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I have a few nits, some suggestions, and some general thoughts about the =
draft.

Some nits (in diff format):

*** original text	2018-05-23 17:09:06.000000000 -0700
--- new text      	2018-05-23 18:53:18.000000000 -0700
***************
*** 77,83 ****
 =20
     1.  Introduction  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
2
     2.  BGP Extended Message  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
2
!    3.  Extended message Capability for BGP . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
3
     4.  Operation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
3
     5.  Error Handling  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
4
     6.  Changes to RFC4271  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
4
--- 77,83 ----
 =20
     1.  Introduction  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
2
     2.  BGP Extended Message  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
2
!    3.  Extended Message Capability for BGP . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
3
     4.  Operation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
3
     5.  Error Handling  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
4
     6.  Changes to RFC4271  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   =
4
***************
*** 96,102 ****
     newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there =
is
     a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  This
     draft provides an extension to BGP to extend its current message =
size
!    limit from 4096 octets to 65535 octetsfor all except the OPEN
     message.
 =20
  2.  BGP Extended Message
--- 96,102 ----
     newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there =
is
     a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  This
     draft provides an extension to BGP to extend its current message =
size
!    limit from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN
     message.
 =20
  2.  BGP Extended Message
***************
*** 114,120 ****
  Internet-Draft      Extended Message support for BGP            May =
2018
 =20
 =20
! 3.  Extended message Capability for BGP
 =20
     To advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP
     speaker uses BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].  By
--- 114,120 ----
  Internet-Draft      Extended Message support for BGP            May =
2018
 =20
 =20
! 3.  Extended Message Capability for BGP
 =20
     To advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP
     speaker uses BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492].  By
***************
*** 137,144 ****
     Extended Message Capability from that peer.
 =20
     The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except
!    for the OPEN message.  This exception is reduce compexity of
!    providing backward compatibility
 =20
     An implementation that advertises support for BGP Extended Messages
     MUST be capable of receiving a message with a length up to and
--- 137,144 ----
     Extended Message Capability from that peer.
 =20
     The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except
!    for the OPEN message.  This exception is made to reduce the
!    complexity of providing backward compatibility.
 =20
     An implementation that advertises support for BGP Extended Messages
     MUST be capable of receiving a message with a length up to and
***************
*** 150,163 ****
 =20
     A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the
     BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
!    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore =
putting
!    an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or less in =
an
!    Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
 =20
     It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
     conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.
     Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
!    peers which can only accomodate 4096 octet messages.
 =20
 =20
 =20
--- 150,163 ----
 =20
     A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the
     BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
!    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
!    putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
!    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
 =20
     It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
     conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.
     Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
!    peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.
 =20
 =20
 =20
***************
*** 204,210 ****
 =20
  7.  IANA Considerations
 =20
!    The IANA has made an early allocation for this new BGP BGP Extended
     Message Capability referring to this document.
 =20
     Registry:  BGP Capability Code
--- 204,210 ----
 =20
  7.  IANA Considerations
 =20
!    The IANA has made an early allocation for this new BGP Extended
     Message Capability referring to this document.
 =20
     Registry:  BGP Capability Code
***************
*** 227,233 ****
 =20
 =20
     Section 5 allowed a receiver to accept an Extended Message even
!    though they had not advertised the capability.  This slippery slope
     will surely lead to sloppy implementations sending Extended =
Messages
     when the receiver is not prepared to deal with them, e.g. to peer
     groups.  At best, this will result in errors; at worst, buffer
--- 227,233 ----
 =20
 =20
     Section 5 allowed a receiver to accept an Extended Message even
!    though it had not advertised the capability.  This slippery slope
     will surely lead to sloppy implementations sending Extended =
Messages
     when the receiver is not prepared to deal with them, e.g. to peer
     groups.  At best, this will result in errors; at worst, buffer

Some suggestions:

Section 5:

   A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended Messages
   capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.  Such
   a speaker would be expected to follow the error handling procedures
   of [RFC4271] if it receives an Extended Message.  Similarly, any
   speaker that treats an improper Extended Message as a fatal error,
   MUST treat it similarly.

Since this draft updates 4271, why not make the second sentence =
normative, such
as: Such a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of =
[RFC4271] ...


Section 8:

   Section 5 allowed a receiver to accept an Extended Message even
   though they had not advertised the capability.  This slippery slope
   will surely lead to sloppy implementations sending Extended Messages
   when the receiver is not prepared to deal with them, e.g. to peer
   groups.  At best, this will result in errors; at worst, buffer
   overflows.

The second sentence is (understandably) pessimistic.  Perhaps it could =
be toned
down a bit, such as: This slippery slope could lead to sloppy =
implementations =E2=80=A6

   Due to increased (over [RFC4272]) memory requirements for buffering,
   there may be increased exposure to resource exhaustion, intentional
   or unintentional.

I wasn't sure what "over [RFC4272]" was referring to, because I couldn't =
find
any mention of "memory requirements for buffering" (or words to that =
effect)
in 4272.


Some general thoughts:

After reading many idr list messages and the datatracker history of the =
draft, and reviewing it myself, I am concerned that what has been =
proposed needs more input, especially from the ops community, before =
being published.   However, I understand that there are people who have =
worked very hard on the draft and would like to see it published.  A =
good deal of the commentary is operational in nature. Perhaps two =
separate drafts are needed, focusing on the protocol specification and =
operations, similarly to how 7947 and 7948 were handled, respectively.  =
On the other hand, I hope this would not impact the entire effort too =
much.

Regards,
Greg=20

> On May 21, 2018, at 9:14 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : Extended Message support for BGP
>        Authors         : Randy Bush
>                          Keyur Patel
>                          Dave Ward
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
> 	Pages           : 6
> 	Date            : 2018-05-21
>=20
> Abstract:
>   The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096
>   octets.  As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other
>   features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond
>   4096 octets.  This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by
>   providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message
>   size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN
>   message.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages=
-25
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-2=
5
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
>=20


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To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, bruno.decraene@orange.com
Cc: "ju1738@att.com" <ju1738@att.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>,  Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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On May 23, 2018 at 4:18:40 PM, bruno.decraene@orange.com (
bruno.decraene@orange.com) wrote:

Hi!

From: Warren Kumari [mailto:warren@kumari.net <warren@kumari.net>]


On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:19 AM <http://airmail.calendar/2018-05-23
03:19:00 EDT> <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

Warren, all



I would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence warning
(possibly in the operational/management consideration section)



=E2=80=8BAwesome, thanks. Mainly I wanted to make sure it had been consider=
ed --
I'll go clear my DISCUSS.


[Bruno] To clarify, I was speaking as IDR WG member but I=E2=80=99m not one=
 of the
authors. So I was not speaking for the authors.



Thanks Bruno!  I=E2=80=99ll make sure we do the right thing with this docum=
ent.

Alvaro.

--000000000000193273056cf2a8fb
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">On May 23, 201=
8 at 4:18:40 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraen=
e@orange.com</a> (<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a>) wrote:</font></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><di=
v id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica">Hi!</span></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></di=
v> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:H=
elvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fo=
nt-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><font face=3D"H=
elvetica"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">From:=
=C2=A0Warren Kumari [<a href=3D"mailto:warren@kumari.net" style=3D"color:pu=
rple">mailto:warren@kumari.net</a>]=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;lette=
r-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white=
-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></p><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=
=3D"http://airmail.calendar/2018-05-23 03:19:00 EDT" style=3D"color:purple;=
text-decoration:underline">On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:19 AM</a><span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.=
decraene@orange.com" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">bruno.decraene@orange.com</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US">&g=
t; wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote class=3D"clean_bq"><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style=3D"color:black=
">Warren, all</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.00=
01pt"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>I would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence warning =
(possibly in the operational/management consideration section)</span></p></=
div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt">=C2=A0</p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:=
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt">=E2=80=8BAwesome, thanks. Mainly I wanted to make sure it=
 had been considered -- I&#39;ll go clear my DISCUSS.</p></div></div></div>=
</font></span></blockquote></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"cl=
ean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:norm=
al;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spac=
ing:0px"><span><font face=3D"Helvetica"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote class=
=3D"clean_bq"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.00=
01pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><br class=3D"Apple-interch=
ange-newline">[Bruno] To clarify, I was speaking as IDR WG member but I=E2=
=80=99m not one of the authors. So I was not speaking for the authors.</spa=
n></p></div></div></blockquote></div></font></span></blockquote><br class=
=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div> <div id=3D"bloop_sign_152716421523839=
1040" class=3D"bloop_sign"></div><div id=3D"bloop_sign_1527164215238391040"=
 class=3D"bloop_sign"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div id=3D"=
bloop_sign_1527164215238391040" class=3D"bloop_sign"><font face=3D"Helvetic=
a">Thanks Bruno!=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ll make sure we do the right thing with th=
is document.</font></div><div id=3D"bloop_sign_1527164215238391040" class=
=3D"bloop_sign"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div id=3D"bloop_=
sign_1527164215238391040" class=3D"bloop_sign"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Alv=
aro.</font></div></body></html>

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Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)
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Bruno:

=20

Agreed =E2=80=93 you are correct on the FSM and on the infinite timer.   =


=20

When we did RFC4271, we added this feature because it was deployed.=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:37 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: 'idr@ietf. org'; 'UTTARO, JAMES'; 'The IESG'; 'Robert Raszuk'; =
'Warren Kumari'
Subject: RE: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)

=20

Sue,

=20

Please see two comments inline [Bruno]

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 3:08 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; 'Warren Kumari'
Cc: 'idr@ietf. org'; 'UTTARO, JAMES'; 'The IESG'; 'Robert Raszuk'
Subject: RE: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)

=20

Bruno and Warren:=20

=20

Warren has approved so this message is just a follow-up on the message =
stream.=20

=20

As to specifying =E2=80=9C0=E2=80=9D in Hold Time Timer for RFC4271, the =
operative text is the following:

=20

   If the negotiated Hold Time interval is zero, then periodic KEEPALIVE

   messages MUST NOT be sent.  (section 4.4)=20

=20

[Bruno] And also:

      If the negotiated hold time value is zero, then the HoldTimer and

      KeepaliveTimer are not started.

 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4271#section-8.2.2> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4271#section-8.2.2  (FSM)

=20

=20

This RFC4271 addition (based on deployments)  provided a less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D BGP with Keepalives=20

for connection that did not have the need for the =
=E2=80=9CKEEPALIVE=E2=80=9D heartbeat.=20

=20

Whether this is an infinite timer or something else is a discussion =
which is academic. =20

=20

[Bruno] Well, the comment was partly about having an infinite timer for =
BGP in a STD track document.

=20

Regards,

--Bruno

=20

The important part is the needs of the operators. =20

=20

RFC1267 to RFC4271 changed this because the operators needed the less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D KEEPALIVE BGP.   IMHO GR notification improves =
the situation from RFC4271.   =20

=20

Sue=20

=20

PS - As far as I can tell the state machines for these actions still =
hang together with all the changes.  However, I=E2=80=99d love to hear =
from anyone if there is a problem.=20

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 AM
To: Warren Kumari
Cc: idr@ietf. org; UTTARO, JAMES; The IESG; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)

=20

Warren, all

=20

I would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence =
warning (possibly in the operational/management consideration section)

=20

That being said, since you asked for a discussion:

1) +1 to James=E2=80=99 email

=20

2) Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification is making things safer =
as it is _adding_ a mandated timer to Graceful Restart (GR). IOW, with =
current BGP GR RFC one may have no way of limiting this duration.

=20

3) I may be wrong (please correct), but my reading of the BGP spec is =
that RFC 4271 allows for an infinite Hold Time timer (when set to 0).

=20

4) There is no way we=E2=80=99ll all agree on what =E2=80=9Cmax =
value=E2=80=9D should be in general. e.g. you picked =E2=80=9C10 to 15 =
minutes=E2=80=9D while BGP Graceful Restart already allows for a 68 =
minutes restart time and BGP for a 18 hours Hold Time (and the effect of =
those timers seems =E2=80=9Cworse=E2=80=9D that the stale time IMHO). At =
some point, e.g. 1 hour, this will be handled by a human; so =
=E2=80=9CInfinite=E2=80=9D mostly means that we don=E2=80=99t want the =
BGP process to make the decision, which is deferred to a human (or any =
kind of SDN controller in a post human world)

=20

Thanks,

Best regards,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Warren Kumari
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38 PM
To: Jeffrey Haas
Cc: idr@ietf. org; The IESG; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with DISCUSS)

=20

=20

=20

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

Robert,

=20

On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

=20

=E2=80=8BHi Jeff,=E2=80=8B

=20

This is a point where I point at your supposed opeational background and =
suggest shame on you. :-)

=20

=20

=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit should be pointed out that there is =
difference between sound operational reasons and simply bad network =
design.=20

=20

If someone would deploy in a network route reflectors (and in fact also =
routers) from multiple vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) =
probability that all implementations would go down on given trigger is =
highly reduced - perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no =
one would propose to make BGP state persistent ;-).=20

=20

Here my only worry is that we are stretching protocol(s) to cover for =
wrong choices of network architecture.=20

=20

Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe Warren is =
likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is more a jab at =
the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea usually being =
something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of the =
operators/customers.=20

=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA=E2=80=8B

=20

=20

 We call such features "rope (to hang yourself with)" for good cause.  =
Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he may have =
asked for in the first place. :-)

=20

=E2=80=8BYeah, but there is also a difference between "=E2=80=8BThis is =
might a bad idea, but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?" =
and "Let's put it in a Standards Track document, with no warnings. What =
could go wrong?!" :-P

=20

Perhaps adding something like:=20

"An implementation MAY provide the option to disable the timer

(i.e., to provide an infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do so

by default. Note that long (or infinite) retention time may cause

operational issues, and should be enabled with care."

or:

The impact of long retention times should be carefully considered

or:

This option should only be used by consenting adults=20

:-)

=20

=E2=80=8BAnyway, the fact that this is in "updating" / "new" text means =
that we need to be careful not to overstep, but I think that having some =
warning would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in =
the foot.

=20

=E2=80=8BW=E2=80=8B

=20

=20

=20

While I generally sympathize with your approach to network heterogeneity =
as a mechanism for achieving better fault tolerance, I also consider it =
optimistic.

=20

-- Jeff

=20




=20

--=20

I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea =
in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing =
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of =
pants.
   ---maf

_________________________________________________________________________=
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recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Agreed =E2=80=93 you are correct on the FSM and on the infinite =
timer. =C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>When we did RFC4271, we added this feature because it was deployed. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> 'idr@ietf. org'; 'UTTARO, JAMES'; 'The IESG'; =
'Robert Raszuk'; 'Warren Kumari'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] Warren =
Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with =
DISCUSS)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease see two comments inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
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blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 24, 2018 =
3:08 AM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; 'Warren =
Kumari'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'idr@ietf. org'; 'UTTARO, JAMES'; 'The IESG'; =
'Robert Raszuk'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with =
DISCUSS)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno and Warren: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Warren has approved so this message is just a follow-up on the =
message stream. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As to specifying =E2=80=9C0=E2=80=9D in Hold Time Timer for RFC4271, =
the operative text is the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; If the negotiated Hold Time interval is =
zero, then periodic KEEPALIVE<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; messages MUST NOT be sent.&nbsp; (section =
4.4) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>[=
Bruno] And also:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If the negotiated hold time value =
is zero, then the HoldTimer and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KeepaliveTimer are =
not started.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4271#section-8.2.2"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4271#section-8.2.2</span></a>=
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp; (FSM)</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This RFC4271 addition (based on deployments) &nbsp;provided a less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D BGP with Keepalives <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>for connection that did not have the need for the =
=E2=80=9CKEEPALIVE=E2=80=9D heartbeat. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Whether this is an infinite timer or something else is a discussion =
which is academic. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>[=
Bruno] Well, the comment was partly about having an infinite timer for =
BGP in a STD track document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>R=
egards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The important part is the needs of the operators.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>RFC1267 to RFC4271 changed this because the operators needed the less =
=E2=80=9Cchatty=E2=80=9D KEEPALIVE BGP.&nbsp; &nbsp;IMHO GR notification =
improves the situation from RFC4271. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>PS - As far as I can tell the state machines for these actions still =
hang together with all the changes. &nbsp;However, I=E2=80=99d love to =
hear from anyone if there is a problem. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 23, 2018 =
3:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> Warren Kumari<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf. org; UTTARO, =
JAMES; The IESG; Robert Raszuk<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Warren =
Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with =
DISCUSS)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>W=
arren, all<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
 would personally be fine with adding your proposed one sentence warning =
(possibly in the operational/management consideration =
section)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hat being said, since you asked for a =
discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>1=
) +1 to James=E2=80=99 email<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>2=
) Note that draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification is making things safer as =
it is _<i>adding</i>_ a mandated timer to Graceful Restart (GR). IOW, =
with current BGP GR RFC one may have no way of limiting this =
duration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>3=
) I may be wrong (please correct), but my reading of the BGP spec is =
that RFC 4271 allows for an infinite Hold Time timer (when set to =
0).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
) There is no way we=E2=80=99ll all agree on what </span>=E2=80=9C<span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>m=
ax value=E2=80=9D should be in general. e.g. you picked =
=E2=80=9C</span>10 to 15 minutes<span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=
=80=9D</span> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>w=
hile BGP Graceful Restart already allows for a 68 minutes restart time =
and BGP for a 18 hours Hold Time (and the effect of those timers seems =
=E2=80=9Cworse=E2=80=9D that the stale time IMHO). At some point, e.g. 1 =
hour, this will be handled by a human; so =E2=80=9CInfinite=E2=80=9D =
mostly means that we don=E2=80=99t want the BGP process to make the =
decision, which is deferred to a human (or any kind of SDN controller in =
a post human world)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
est regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Warren =
Kumari<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Jeffrey Haas<br><b>Cc:</b> id</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>r@ietf. =
org; The IESG; Robert Raszuk<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] Warren =
Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-gr-notification-15: (with =
DISCUSS)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 4:12 PM =
Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>On May 22, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8BHi =
Jeff,=E2=80=8B</span><span lang=3DFR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>This is a point where I point =
at your supposed opeational background and suggest shame on you. =
:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8BI think =E2=80=8Bit =
should be pointed out that there is difference between sound operational =
reasons and simply bad network =
design.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If someone would deploy in a =
network route reflectors (and in fact also routers) from multiple =
vendors (let's be brave and say 3 or 4) probability that all =
implementations would go down on given trigger is highly reduced - =
perhaps to the extend that no outage would occur and no one would =
propose to make BGP state persistent =
;-).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here my only worry is that we =
are stretching protocol(s) to cover for wrong choices of network =
architecture.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>Since it seems my attempt at humor was overly broad (I believe =
Warren is likely to have taken it with its original intent), this is =
more a jab at the focus on a knob that is not usually a good idea =
usually being something that ends up in code mostly at the pressure of =
the operators/customers. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR><a =
href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA">https://www.youtub=
e.com/watch?v=3D2HmcrZwb7OA</a></span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;We call =
such features &quot;rope (to hang yourself with)&quot; for good =
cause.&nbsp; Warren is thus pointing out the thing that as a customer he =
may have asked for in the first place. =
:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yeah, but there =
is also a difference between &quot;</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>This is might a =
bad idea, but we need it for this funky reason, so, er, please?&quot; =
and &quot;Let's put it in a Standards Track document, with no warnings. =
What could go wrong?!&quot; :-P<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Perhaps adding something =
like:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&quot;An implementation MAY =
provide the option to disable the =
timer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>(i.e., to provide =
an infinite retention time) but MUST NOT do =
so<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>by default. Note that long =
(or infinite) retention time may =
cause<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>operational =
issues, and should be enabled with =
care.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>or:<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>The impact of long =
retention times should be carefully =
considered<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>or:<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>This option should only be =
used by consenting adults&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Anyway, the fact =
that this is in &quot;updating&quot; / &quot;new&quot; text means that =
we need to be careful not to overstep, but I think that having some =
warning would be useful to help minimize people shooting themselves in =
the foot.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>W</span><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=8B</span><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>While I generally sympathize with your =
approach to network heterogeneity as a mechanism for achieving better =
fault tolerance, I also consider it =
optimistic.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR>-- =
Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR><br =
clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR>I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously =
a bad idea in the first place.<br>This is like putting rabid weasels in =
your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those =
particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;---maf<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>___________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Ce message et ses =
pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>pas etre =
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>a l'expediteur et =
le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques =
etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Orange =
decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This message and =
its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that =
may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>___________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Ce message et ses =
pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>pas etre =
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>a l'expediteur et =
le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques =
etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Orange =
decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This message and =
its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that =
may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_011C_01D3F37C.A72D8970--



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From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
To: Greg Skinner <gregskinner0@icloud.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
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> I have a few nits, some suggestions, and some general thoughts about
> the draft.

thanks!  will get to it.

randy


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Subject: [Idr] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC4271 (5369)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC4271,
"A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5369

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Eric Osborne <eric@notcom.com>

Section: 9.2.2.2

Original Text
-------------
         route MUST have the ORIGIN attribute with the value EGP.  In
         all other cases,, the value of the ORIGIN attribute of the
         aggregated route is IGP.

Corrected Text
--------------
         route MUST have the ORIGIN attribute with the value EGP.  In
         all other cases, the value of the ORIGIN attribute of the
         aggregated route is IGP.

Notes
-----
Extra comma after 'cases'.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party  
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC4271 (draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-26)
--------------------------------------
Title               : A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)
Publication Date    : January 2006
Author(s)           : Y. Rekhter, Ed., T. Li, Ed., S. Hares, Ed.
Category            : DRAFT STANDARD
Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [Idr] [Errata Verified] RFC4271 (5369)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC4271,
"A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5369

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Eric Osborne <eric@notcom.com>
Date Reported: 2018-05-25
Verified by: RFC Editor  

Section: 9.2.2.2

Original Text
-------------
         route MUST have the ORIGIN attribute with the value EGP.  In
         all other cases,, the value of the ORIGIN attribute of the
         aggregated route is IGP.

Corrected Text
--------------
         route MUST have the ORIGIN attribute with the value EGP.  In
         all other cases, the value of the ORIGIN attribute of the
         aggregated route is IGP.

Notes
-----
Extra comma after 'cases'.

--------------------------------------
RFC4271 (draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-26)
--------------------------------------
Title               : A Border Gateway Protocol 4 (BGP-4)
Publication Date    : January 2006
Author(s)           : Y. Rekhter, Ed., T. Li, Ed., S. Hares, Ed.
Category            : DRAFT STANDARD
Source              : Inter-Domain Routing
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF


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To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
References: <152691925195.23085.2224548530108903025@ietfa.amsl.com> <A8418B2F-DD4C-4B85-B77A-3A5473788E87@icloud.com> <m2r2lzvfze.wl-randy@psg.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
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> On May 25, 2018, at 9:48 AM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
>=20
>> I have a few nits, some suggestions, and some general thoughts about
>> the draft.
>=20
> thanks!  will get to it.
>=20
> randy

By the way, do you remember this thread on NANOG =
<https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-September/092373.html> =
in which the draft was mentioned?  Have you seen any mention of the =
draft on any other ops forums?  (I have not.  Googling for its full name =
turned up no ops forum results, and only the NANOG thread when using the =
abbreviation [bgp-extended-messages].) One of my concerns is if the ops =
community knows enough about this draft to understand its implications.  =
Also, I agree with the sentiment expressed by several others that there =
are issues that are possibly beyond the scope of IDR.  We could continue =
this discussion in GROW, perhaps.

=E2=80=94gregbo
=20=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On May 25, 2018, at 9:48 AM, Randy Bush &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:randy@psg.com" class=3D"">randy@psg.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">I have a few nits, some =
suggestions, and some general thoughts about<br class=3D"">the draft.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">thanks! &nbsp;will get to it.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">randy<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">By the way, do you remember&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-September/092373.ht=
ml" class=3D"">this thread on NANOG</a>&nbsp;in which the draft was =
mentioned? &nbsp;Have you seen any mention of the draft on any other ops =
forums? &nbsp;(I have not. &nbsp;Googling for its full name turned up no =
ops forum results, and only the NANOG thread when using the abbreviation =
[bgp-extended-messages].) One of my concerns is if the ops community =
knows enough about this draft to understand its implications. =
&nbsp;Also, I agree with the sentiment expressed by several others that =
there are issues that are possibly beyond the scope of IDR. &nbsp;We =
could continue this discussion in GROW, perhaps.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94gregbo</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div></body></html>=

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From nobody Fri May 25 22:36:51 2018
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt
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> By the way, do you remember this thread on NANOG <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-September/092373.html> in which the draft was mentioned?  Have you seen any mention of the draft on any other ops forums?  (I have not.  Googling for its full name turned up no ops forum results, and only the NANOG thread when using the abbreviation [bgp-extended-messages].) One of my concerns is if the ops community knows enough about this draft to understand its implications.  Also, I agree with the sentiment expressed by several others that there are issues that are possibly beyond the scope of IDR.  We could continue this discussion in GROW, perhaps.

enjoy


From nobody Tue May 29 12:48:33 2018
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by John Scudder, a Chair of the idr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Inter-Domain Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: John Scudder

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours, 1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 120
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: i2rs i2nsf grow  netmod netconf  bfd lsr sidrops
 Second Priority: bess babel 



People who must be present:
  Susan Hares
  John Scudder
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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--00000000000046be1b056d5df833
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Dear authors:

Thanks for working on the revision of this document!

I just have a couple of minor comments (please see below).  I am starting
the IETF Last Call.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


(1) Move the reference:
s/
   [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also describes how segment routing
   can be applied to an IPv6 dataplane
   [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] (SRv6) using a new IPv6
   routing header containing a stack of SR SIDs encoded as IPv6
   addresses./
   [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing] also describes how segment routing
   can be applied to an IPv6 dataplane
   (SRv6) using a new IPv6
   routing header containing a stack of SR SIDs encoded as IPv6
   addresses [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header].


(2) The IANA-MPLS-SPECIAL-LABEL is not where the NULL labels are defined --
I think a better reference would be rfc3032.


(3) s/Ah SR domain/An SR domain

--00000000000046be1b056d5df833
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);mar=
gin:0px;line-height:auto">Dear authors:</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);ma=
rgin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px=
;line-height:auto">Thanks for working on the revision of this document!</di=
v><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-si=
ze:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div i=
d=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;=
color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">I just have a couple of =
minor comments (please see below).=C2=A0 I am starting the IETF Last Call.<=
/div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font=
-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><di=
v id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13=
px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">Thanks!</div><div id=
=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;c=
olor:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id=3D"bloo=
p_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgb=
a(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">Alvaro.</div><div id=3D"bloop_cus=
tomfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0=
,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont"=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);=
margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=
=3D"margin:0px"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">(1) Move =
the reference:</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">s/</d=
iv><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf=
-spring-segment-routing] also describes how segment routing</div><div id=3D=
"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0can be applied to an I=
Pv6 dataplane</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] (SRv6) using a new IPv6</div>=
<div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing head=
er containing a stack of SR SIDs encoded as IPv6</div><div id=3D"bloop_cust=
omfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses./</div><div id=3D"bloop=
_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-rou=
ting] also describes how segment routing</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" =
style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0can be applied to an IPv6 dataplane</div>=
<div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0(SRv6) using=
 a new IPv6</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0routing header containing a stack of SR SIDs encoded as IPv6</div><di=
v id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses [I-D.=
ietf-6man-segment-routing-header].</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"=
><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">(2) The IANA-M=
PLS-SPECIAL-LABEL is not where the NULL labels are defined -- I think a bet=
ter reference would be rfc3032.</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"=
margin:0px"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"><br=
></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">(3) s/Ah SR domain=
/An SR domain</div></div><div class=3D"bloop_container"><div class=3D"bloop=
_frame">  </div></div><br><div id=3D"bloop_sign_1527624870416369920" class=
=3D"bloop_sign"></div></body></html>

--00000000000046be1b056d5df833--


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Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 13:54:15 -0700
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing Prefix SID extensions for BGP
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Acee Lindem
                          Arjun Sreekantiah
                          Hannes Gredler
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2018-05-29

Abstract:
   The Segment Routing (SR) architecture allows a node to steer a packet
   flow through any topological path and service chain by leveraging
   source routing.  The ingress node prepends an SR header to a packet
   containing a set of segment identifiers (SID).  Each SID represents a
   topological or a service-based instruction.  Per-flow state is
   maintained only on the ingress node of the SR domain.  An SR domain
   is defined as a single administrative domain for global SID
   assignment.

   This document defines an optional, transitive BGP attribute for
   announcing BGP Prefix Segment Identifiers (BGP Prefix-SID)
   information.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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--_000_9F0A965E6A9A472D8E59625163853099ciscocom_--


From nobody Tue May 29 13:58:52 2018
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CC: idr@ietf.org, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, idr-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid@ietf.org, John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, jgs@juniper.net, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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Subject: [Idr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21.txt> (Segment Routing Prefix SID extensions for BGP) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Inter-Domain Routing WG (idr) to
consider the following document: - 'Segment Routing Prefix SID extensions for
BGP'
  <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-21.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-06-12. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of
the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   The Segment Routing (SR) architecture allows a node to steer a packet
   flow through any topological path and service chain by leveraging
   source routing.  The ingress node prepends an SR header to a packet
   containing a set of segment identifiers (SID).  Each SID represents a
   topological or a service-based instruction.  Per-flow state is
   maintained only on the ingress node of the SR domain.  An SR domain
   is defined as a single administrative domain for global SID
   assignment.

   This document defines an optional, transitive BGP attribute for
   announcing BGP Prefix Segment Identifiers (BGP Prefix-SID)
   information.





The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.





From nobody Wed May 30 11:25:42 2018
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Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 11:25:24 -0700
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/JcqMiLggVXnhSjUlQb5XLFOqkEM>
Subject: [Idr] idr - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 102
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An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by John Scudder, a Chair of the idr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Inter-Domain Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: John Scudder

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours, 1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 120
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: i2rs i2nsf grow netmod netconf bfd lsr sidrops lsvr
 Second Priority: bess babel



People who must be present:
  Susan Hares
  John Scudder
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Implementation report of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 02:08:00 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] Implementation report of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis
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Hi all,

During the preparation of the shepherd write-up of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bi=
s, I noticed that we didn't ask for implementation information of this draf=
t.

Although there are many implementation and deployment of RFC 5575, it would=
 be helpful to know if the changes in the -bis document have been implement=
ed.


The authors and implementers are invited to report their implementations or=
 implementation plan of this document.


Best regards,
Jie












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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">During the preparation of the s=
hepherd write-up of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis, I noticed that we didn&#8217=
;t ask for implementation information of this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Although there are many impleme=
ntation and deployment of RFC 5575, it would be helpful to know if the chan=
ges in the -bis document have been implemented.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The aut=
hors and implementers are invited to report their implementations or implem=
entation plan of this document.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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