From nobody Mon Oct 1 09:37:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5480E130EA0; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 09:37:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153841183430.21533.1618755643438412949@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 09:37:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-06.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 16:37:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Making Route Servers Aware of Data Link Failures at IXPs Authors : Randy Bush Jeffrey Haas John G. Scudder Arnold Nipper Christoph Dietzel Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-06.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-10-01 Abstract: When BGP route servers are used, the data plane is not congruent with the control plane. Therefore, peers at an Internet exchange can lose data connectivity without the control plane being aware of it, and packets are lost. This document proposes the use of a newly defined BGP Subsequent Address Family Identifier (SAFI) both to allow the route server to request its clients use BFD to track data plane connectivity to their peers' addresses, and for the clients to signal that connectivity state back to the route server. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 3 07:21:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85651312CE; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153857649668.9124.5066234473505760653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 07:21:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] The IDR WG has placed draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change in state "Adopted by a WG" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:21:37 -0000 The IDR WG has placed draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change in state Adopted by a WG (entered by Susan Hares) The document was previously in state Candidate for WG Adoption The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change/ From nobody Wed Oct 3 07:27:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46201312B3; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:27:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EHe_KUigDDii; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AAD813129E; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:27:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.82; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 10:26:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001801d45b25$25cf09b0$716d1d10$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01D45B03.9EBD69B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRbJHFCEMjfcUBnQza3f9kicKchLA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181003-8, 10/03/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change-02 - has been adopted X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:27:04 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D45B03.9EBD69B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: The WG has adopted draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change-02.txt. The authors should submit this as draft-ietf-idr-capabilities-registry-change-00.txt. Are the authors ready for WG last call on this document? In preparation for a WG LC, the authors should indicate if they know of any IPR regarding the draft. (My apologies for the repeated IPR call but I do not want to miss a process step with this draft. I would like this document go as swiftly as the IDR/Grow WG desires). Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D45B03.9EBD69B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings:

 

The WG has = adopted draft-scudder-idr-capabilities-registry-change-02.txt. =    The authors should submit this as = draft-ietf-idr-capabilities-registry-change-00.txt.

 

Are the = authors ready for WG last call on this document? =   

 

In preparation for a WG LC, the authors should = indicate if they know of any IPR regarding the draft.   (My = apologies for the repeated IPR call but I do not want to miss a process = step with this draft.  I would like this document go as swiftly as = the IDR/Grow WG desires).

 

Susan Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D45B03.9EBD69B0-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 07:33:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF6413129E; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:33:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gjZIg0kNcCtL; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7823131280; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 07:33:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.82; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: , "'Alvaro Retana'" Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 10:33:09 -0400 Message-ID: <004101d45b26$02488920$06d99b60$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01D45B04.7B36E920" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRbJXxTmGOH3brPTSu3Eg/QdVgzQQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181003-8, 10/03/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IPR Call for draft-waqng-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:33:16 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01D45B04.7B36E920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This begins an IPR call for draft draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in preparation for a WG Adoption. The authors should indicate if they know of any IPR regarding this draft. Cheerily, Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01D45B04.7B36E920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This = begins an IPR call for draft draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext = in preparation for a WG Adoption.

 

The authors = should indicate if they know of any IPR regarding this draft. =

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01D45B04.7B36E920-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 08:05:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6BDE1312D2; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:05:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rl8i8y50Ieon; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AF291312CE; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:05:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.82; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: "'Jeff Tantsura'" , Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 10:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: <005d01d45b28$31e68f40$95b3adc0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01D45B06.AAD5D9A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRbJvQEpp6ZwAwTSgiqyoCzEtZ2Lg== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181003-8, 10/03/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution - WG LC 10/3/2018 to 10/17/2018 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:05:47 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01D45B06.AAD5D9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-07.txt. You can find the document at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution/ The requirement for publication of a draft is 2 implementations. At this point, the chairs do not have any information on an implementation of this draft. If you know if any implementations, please send a note to the chairs. The WG should also consider if this draft: 1) Will aid MPLS-TE administration? 2) Is ready for publication? Susan Hares Idr co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01D45B06.AAD5D9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

 

This begins a 2 week WG LC on = draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-07.txt.  You can find the document = at:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution/

 

The requirement for publication of a draft is 2 = implementations.  At this point, the chairs do not have any = information on an implementation of this draft.   If you know = if any implementations, please send a note to the chairs. =

 

The WG should also consider if this = draft:

1)      = Will aid MPLS-TE = administration?

2)      = Is ready for publication? =

 

Susan = Hares

Idr co-chair =  

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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB1662; H:VI1PR07MB0831.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Kb9yEgVL4LiP+vNInSdHzvwvHS6qkN1gX+XRmOV5T0sM1ZJneuJNM1LaIUwUAqujCM3KZ+hBDG1k9w17+SZMeX/UqDt+3agPGjYN4eltkNp+Kh9taaIklKfnSykI8OOdEPDjSnWjLjBxYpQHiuVwiAthY3Ej3yIHTcGwt7kOEm4GnVF5a/hZJTFIheKmf0nC1Uhn9MfNlfJFmmxIdHdnIYqeVL+zXZVWWaYpVMeE9ke/vTv14TB94tebjywNLmAkFIoywAx8JBsfSqCuXJn6Su8KzeC2Xav5Q3dJlJx1RGNOOBDhnhqsBqe6+KZUWvjoUsbXsSuN5hbprm4zSU/7Fk7048VadrM0BF933brsEvk= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0f71c6bd-2cef-4b7f-a9a9-08d6294baf81 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2018 16:17:16.7863 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB1662 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Fw: [i2rs] The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:17:21 -0000 Sue Why do I see this on the I2RS list and not on the IDR list? Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "IETF Secretariat" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 3:12 PM Subject: [i2rs] The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" > > The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state > Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Susan Hares) > > The document is available at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology- ext/ > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs From nobody Wed Oct 3 16:25:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D4A12F295 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:25:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6KnMlExIa2d2 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4654E126F72 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:25:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.82; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'tom petch'" , "'idr'" References: <00d801d45b34$74a0a8a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <00d801d45b34$74a0a8a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 19:25:21 -0400 Message-ID: <008501d45b70$5acbfdd0$1063f970$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQIbS/ycmd8ENaJlX0TiZKrbIPF9RqSASDAA X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181003-20, 10/03/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Fw: [i2rs] The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 23:25:31 -0000 Tom: It is back on IDR at this point. Cheerily, Susan Hares -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of tom petch Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 12:17 PM To: Susan Hares; idr Subject: [Idr] Fw: [i2rs] The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" Sue Why do I see this on the I2RS list and not on the IDR list? Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "IETF Secretariat" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 3:12 PM Subject: [i2rs] The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" > > The I2RS WG has placed draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext in state > Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Susan Hares) > > The document is available at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology- ext/ > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Oct 3 17:06:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE607130DC7; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:06:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r5ZqwMve70Zz; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (m88102.mail.qiye.163.com [106.2.88.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5966812F295; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.124.2] (unknown [111.194.47.224]) by m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id B6DA74132E; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:06:16 +0800 (CST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-20927B27-6D76-444E-9D79-7FEF032FF2F8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Aijun Wang X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15G77) In-Reply-To: <004101d45b26$02488920$06d99b60$@ndzh.com> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:06:11 +0800 Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <63AA5C19-6174-4BA3-9F44-BCCEF7E593F4@tsinghua.org.cn> References: <004101d45b26$02488920$06d99b60$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6MC46PSo*PzotCiwQA0NLGSI1UTAKFBVVSlVKTkhD TUpKTkNJT09NVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQU9DSEo3V1kSC1lBWUpKSlVKQk9VT0xVSUlPWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a663c657faf9865kuuub6da74132e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR Call for draft-waqng-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 00:06:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail-20927B27-6D76-444E-9D79-7FEF032FF2F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Susan: I am not aware the IPR within this draft. Best Regards. Aijun Wang China Telecom=20 > =E5=9C=A8 2018=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C22:33=EF=BC=8CSusan H= ares =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A >=20 > This begins an IPR call for draft draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-e= xt in preparation for a WG Adoption. > =20 > The authors should indicate if they know of any IPR regarding this draft. > =20 > Cheerily, Susan Hares > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr --Apple-Mail-20927B27-6D76-444E-9D79-7FEF032FF2F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Susan:

I am not awar= e the IPR within this draft.

Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
China Telecom 

<= br>=E5=9C=A8 2018=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C22:33=EF=BC=8CSusan H= ares <shares@ndzh.com> =E5=86=99= =E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A

This begins an IPR call for draft draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-top= ology-ext in preparation for a WG Adoption.

 

The authors should indicate= if they know of any IPR regarding this draft.

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares <= o:p>

 

 

_______________________________________________
= Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.or= g
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
<= /div>
= --Apple-Mail-20927B27-6D76-444E-9D79-7FEF032FF2F8-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 17:20:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44029130DD0; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:20:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JZZiJu-fcXio; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69F44130DCD; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C222073DFC290; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 01:20:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 01:20:42 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.47]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.166]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:20:37 -0700 From: Huaimo Chen To: "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org" , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [Idr] IPR Call for draft-waqng-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Thread-Index: AQHUW3YgC53K0lTMLkuhZb4EBoEKPqUOOPtg Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 00:20:36 +0000 Message-ID: <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD1E58@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <004101d45b26$02488920$06d99b60$@ndzh.com> 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFKJwHbfnwy9 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 03:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hated.at (mail.hated.at [IPv6:2001:858:2:8::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39440130DFB for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 03:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 80-110-115-16.cgn.dynamic.surfer.at ([80.110.115.16] helo=[192.168.66.207]) by mail.hated.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1g80LP-0006EB-Gj; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:55:06 +0200 From: Christoph Loibl Message-Id: <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0BE6A93F-6D0D-416C-91A9-C8FAB141FE0E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:19:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> Cc: idr@ietf.org To: Jeffrey Haas References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:19:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0BE6A93F-6D0D-416C-91A9-C8FAB141FE0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jeff,=20 Thank you very much for your detailed feedback on the draft. As I promised this is the full report on your feedback on 5575bis draft. = I appreciate discussion on the list. And will update the draft document = next week according to the discussion. However, I really need to make clear (again): With this -BIS we want to = make things clearer and want to improve interoperability. We avoid = fundamental changes that lead to incompatibility (esp. when it comes to = encoding of the NLRI and propagation of the NLRI). Please always keep = that in mind when suggesting changes (basically this is *not* flowspec = 2.0) Said that, I think the current RFC5575 implementations (at least those I = am aware of) are widely compatible/compliant implementations also of the = 5575BIS but may lack some minor details that have previously not been = specified to that granularity (in RFC5575). See my comments inline (CL). Cheers Christoph > From: Jeffrey Haas > > Subject: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis > Date: 12. July 2018 at 20:58:55 CEST > To: idr@ietf.org >=20 > As I promised Sue, I've done a thorough re-read of = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis. > This re-read was partially prompted by recent work in my employer's > implementation so this was very fresh. >=20 > Here are my comments: >=20 > : A Flow Specification received from an external autonomous system = will > : need to be validated against unicast routing before being = accepted. > : If the aggregate traffic flow defined by the unicast destination > : prefix is forwarded to a given BGP peer, then the local system can > : safely install more specific flow rules that may result in = different > : forwarding behavior, as requested by this system. >=20 > Issue: Redirections may need additional scrutiny. While the = destination > based check on the received unicast routing is good, it's still = possible for > the external AS to influence forwarding beyond "rate-limit/drop" if = scrutiny > is not given to the other control communities. This issue is = compounded > with the redirect-ip feature, not in this document. >=20 > I'd suggest this be mentioned in an operational security = considerations > section. CL: As a matter of fact there is already a paragraph mentioning this = particular problem. However I suggest to make it clearer with a = operational security considerations section as you suggested: While the general verification of the traffic filter NLRI is specified in this document (Section 6) the traffic filtering actions received by a third party may need custom verification or filtering. In particular all non traffic-rate actions may allow a third party to modify packet forwarding properties and potentially gain access to other routing-tables/VPNs or undesired queues. This can be avoided by proper filtering of action communities at network borders and by mapping user-defined communities (see Section 7) to expose certain forwarding properties to third parties. >=20 > : In many deployments of BGP Flow Specification, the Flow = Specification > : information has replace existing host length route advertisements. >=20 > s/replace/replaced/. Also, it's unclear in the context of this = paragraph > why this is interesting. A bit of explanatory text explaining the use = of > such most-specific routes for redirecting traffic would be useful. CL: Suggest to remove the sentence from the draft >=20 > : Experience with previous BGP extensions has also shown that the > : maximum capacity of BGP speakers has been gradually increased > : according to expected loads. Taking into account Internet unicast > : routing as well as additional applications as they gain = popularity. >=20 > The last sentence is dangling. CL: Suggest to rephrase: Experience with previous BGP extensions has also shown that the maximum capacity of BGP speakers has been gradually increased according to expected loads. For example Internet unicast routing as well as other BGP applications increased their maximum capacity as they gain popularity. > : Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by > : increasing numerical order. A given component type may (exactly > : once) or may not be present in the specification. If present, it > : MUST precede any component of higher numeric type value. >=20 > .... and what if they don't? Is it malformed? Should the = implementation > attempt to re-order? CL: [1] I sent an email roughly a month ago to start a discussion about = the encoding of the NLRI - with no response: *) NLRI is widely ment opaque to BGP (no changes to RFC5575) but:=20 *) BGP needs to decode the NLRI to the first component (DST-IP) for the = verification (Section 6) (not more of it! - the rest is part of the = application that receives the NLRI) Since changing the above properties would introduce a fundamental change = to FS I strongly beleave that it does not fit into a 5575bis. If the components are not in the right order the encoding _is_wrong_. = However BGP cannot detect this, because its knowledge about the correct = encoding ends after the very first component (DST-IP). So, to obey the = rules (RFC5575) of an opaque NLRI FS-garbage gets propagated. Only when = the decoding of the NLRI actually happens (not in BGP) such invalids can = be detected and need to be ignored.=20 Additionally reordering is not possible because BGP has no understanding = of the components (which is actually good because it allows future = extensions) - (btw. reordering/re-encoding of the NLRI is potentially = dangerous because it may produce =E2=80=9Cghost=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9Cmutated"= duplicates of an NLRI in the network). I suggest to add a paragraph to the draft to make it clear. Please also refer to my Email one or two months ago - the suggested = changes (100% compatible with current implementations) may also help to = introduce future extensions. > : All combinations of component types within a single NLRI are = allowed, > : even if the combination makes no sense from a semantical = perspective. > : If a given component type within a prefix in unknown, the prefix = in > : question cannot be used for traffic filtering purposes by the > : receiver. Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a = logical > : AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, by definition it > : cannot be applied. However, for the purposes of BGP route > : propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since BGP = route > : distribution is independent on NLRI semantics. >=20 > The issue here is when we encounter an unknown component, we can no = longer > verify the syntactic correctness of the NLRI. This means we will pass > potentially invalid entries downstream. Downstream receivers must = thus not > drop the session, but should use treat-as-withdraw semantics. >=20 > This issue in validation, as I tersely noted in a prior IDR thread, = really > needs discussion in the document. It impacts the ability to verify, = to add > new component types, and potentially cause invalid NLRI to propagate > downstream. CL: See the above comment. As long as BGP treats the NLRI as an opaque = value we do not have a problem with all this (not even with new FS = components). Downstram propagation of the garbage can be partly avoided = (see my Email on that topic) at some cost. But this issue exists with = every BGP opaque NLRI - this is not special to FS. > : The encoding is chosen in order to allow for future > : extensibility. >=20 > It should be mentioned that due to the property above that extensions = are > problematic. CL: This is true, and I think that should be removed. (See also the 2 = comments above) >=20 > 4.2.3: > : 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > : | e | a | len | 0 |lt |gt |eq | > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > : > : Numeric operator >=20 > The 0 field is unclear what the expected behavior is when it's NOT = zero. >=20 > : a - AND bit. If unset, the previous term is logically ORed = with > : the current one. If set, the operation is a logical AND. It > : should be unset in the first operator byte of a sequence. The = AND > : operator has higher priority than OR for the purposes of > : evaluating logical expressions. >=20 > It's not clear what should be done if AND is set in the first list = entry. >=20 > : len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) = - > : 4 (11) bytes. Type 3 flow component values are always encoded = as > : single byte (len =3D 00). >=20 > "always encoded" begs the question about what to do when it isn't. = Being > encoded as 4 bytes of length but a length of 1 is still correct, e.g. = Does > Postel's maxim apply here? CL: I suggest change all the occurrences of 0, and must be 0 to =E2=80=9CM= UST be encoded as 0 and ignored on decoding=E2=80=9D. Also we suggest = (SHOULD) to encode the length of the compoents. Furthermore we suggest = a-and bit MUST be unset on first operator, and ignored on decode (mainly = for compatibility reasons - I do not want to discuss if Postel was right = or not :-) ): e - end-of-list bit. Set in the last {op, value} pair in the list. a - AND bit. If unset, the previous term is logically ORed with the current one. If set, the operation is a logical AND. In the first operator byte of a sequence it MUST be encoded as unset and and MUST be treated as always unset on decoding. The AND operator has higher priority than OR for the purposes of evaluating logical expressions. len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) - 4 (11) bytes. Type 3 flow component values SHOULD be encoded as single byte (len =3D 00). 0 - MUST be set to 0 on NLRI encoding, and MUST be ignored during decoding lt - less than comparison between data and value. gt - greater than comparison between data and value. eq - equality between data and value. >=20 > 4.2.4 > : Defines a list of {operator, value} pairs that matches source = OR > : destination TCP/UDP ports. This list is encoded using the = numeric > : operator format defined in Section 4.2.3. Values are encoded = as > : 1- or 2-byte quantities. >=20 > It's not clear what to do if the encoding is > 2 byte. Ditto for = sections > 4.2.5, 4.2.6, etc. CL: Same solution as the above. (4.2.3) > 4.2.9 has a similar "must be zero" set of bits that need to have their > behavior specified. CL: Same solution as above (4.2.3) >=20 > 4.2.11 > : Defines a list of {operator, value} pairs used to match the = 6-bit > : DSCP field [RFC2474]. This list is encoded using the numeric > : operator format defined in Section 4.2.3. Values are encoded > : using a single byte. The two most significant bits are zero = and > : the six least significant bits contain the DSCP value. >=20 > It's not specified what to do when the top two bits are set. CL: Same solution as above (4.2.3) >=20 > 4.2.12 > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > : | Reserved |LF |FF |IsF|DF | > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > : > : Bitmask values: > : > : Bit 7 - Don't fragment (DF) > : > : Bit 6 - Is a fragment (IsF) > : > : Bit 5 - First fragment (FF) > : > : Bit 4 - Last fragment (LF) >=20 >=20 > While the general behavior of unexpected lengths is already unclear, = it's > even less clear here. =20 >=20 > Reserved behavior is not defined. "Must be zero on transmit, should = be zero > on receive?" >=20 > It's also not specified whether this is "any of" or not. This impacts > whether multiple bits being set is valid for some combinations. CL: Regarding the reserved bits: Same solution as above (4.2.3). Regarding the any-of or distinct/bitwise match. This is explained in = section 4.2.9 where the bit-operator is introduced. m - Match bit. If set, this is a bitwise match operation defined as "(data AND value) =3D=3D value"; if unset, (data AND value) evaluates to TRUE if any of the bits in the value mask are set in the data >=20 > 5. >=20 > : filtering (prevention of traffic-based, denial-of-service (DOS) > : attacks, traffic filtering in the context of BGP/MPLS VPN service, > : and centralized traffic control for SDN/NFV networks) requires >=20 > The separate clauses here likely need to be semicolon separated since = the > first clause is a compound separated by a comma. Alternatively leave = to the > RFC editor to straight it out. CL: Editorial changes. > : Section 8 has details on the limitation > : of previous mechanisms and why BGP Flow Specification version 1 > : provides a solution for to prevent DOS and aid BGP/MPLS VPN = filtering > : rules. >=20 > I think this is the first time in the document this is referred to as = v1 of > the spec. CL: This is definitely wrong and all occurrences of FS v1 need to be = removed. >=20 > : This Flow Specification NLRI defined above to convey information > : about traffic filtering rules for traffic that should be discarded = or > : handled in manner specified by a set of pre-defined actions (which > : are defined in BGP Extended Communities). This mechanism is > : primarily designed to allow an upstream autonomous system to = perform > : inbound filtering in their ingress routers of traffic that a given > : downstream AS wishes to drop. >=20 > There's several bits of awkwardness in the above paragraph. But among = them > is the presumption of drop being the default choice in the last = sentence. CL: There is a default in the specification under section 7 (accept). = This is again also a question of extensibility. If new = action-communities are =E2=80=9Cinvented=E2=80=9D a older implementation = may not be able to identify those extended communities and thus may = think that *no* action is specified (so it is forwarding the traffic to = a node that knows about that new action).=20 However FS-filter matching normally stops at the first match (subsequent = FS-filters after the match are not taken into consideration).=20 I suggest to remove the invalid =E2=80=9Cdefault=E2=80=9D choice from = this paragraph and explain the behaviour as described above. Section 7 = as you pointed out below however should be a bit more verbose on the = matching process. > 5.1 > : The relative order of two Flow Specification rules is determined = by > : comparing their respective components. The algorithm starts by > : comparing the left-most components of the rules.=20 >=20 > The importance of whether the components are sorted becomes critical = here. > Given the semantic ambiguity of components the receiver is unable to = decode > (unknown), the length check also can't be applied here. This is = mostly > important for likely buggy cases where two NLRI are semantically = identical > but mis-ordered. Compare vs. the RFC 3107 withdraw ambiguities for = label > value some time ago. >=20 > A trite example is consider two NLRI both containing the type 4 port = field, > both containing the same 1-byte value (e.g. 255), but one encoded = using a > single byte of length, the other with two bytes of length. Is this an > implicit update or not? >=20 > Somewhat similarly, duplicate components aren't specifically called = out, but > potentially implied (as noted in an IDR exchange) by the requirements = of the > sort order. Exactly what the behavior is in the face of duplicates = should > be specified. CL: NLRI re-en-coding is not acceptable since it introduces a hole lot = of problems. Opaqueness of the NLRI to BGP is somehow vital to avoid = such situations altogether. See also the comment above [1]. > 6. > : The underlying concept is that the neighboring AS that advertises = the > : best unicast route for a destination is allowed to advertise flow- > : spec information that conveys a more or equally specific = destination > : prefix. Thus, as long as there are no more specific unicast = routes, > : received from a different neighboring AS, which would be affected = by > : that filtering rule. >=20 >=20 > Observation: An address space hijack that is not filtered, e.g. > advertisement of a more specific route, may prevent inter-as flowspec = from > validating. This might be worth putting in the operational = considerations > section. CL: Yes, adding the operational considerations section: Since verfication of the traffic filtering NLRI is tied to the announcement of the best unicast route, a unfiltered address space hijack (e.g. advertisement of a more specific route) may cause this verification to fail and consequently prevent Flow Specification filters from being accepted by a peer. >=20 > 7. > : Multiple traffic actions may be present for a single NLRI. The > : traffic actions are processed in ascending order of the sub-type > : found in the BGP Extended Communities. If not all of them can be > : processed the filter SHALL NOT be applied at all (for example: if = for > : a given flow there are the action communities rate-limit-bytes and > : traffic-marking attached, and the plattform does not support one = of > : them also the other shall not be applied for that flow). >=20 > Typo on platform. > The extended communities defined are not only a given sub-type, but = also a > type field. The above suggestion is ambiguous about the case where = the > subtypes are equal but the types are distinct. >=20 > I'm also wondering if the "applied at all" is the desired wording. = Does > that mean, as earlier presented in the draft, we get: >=20 > : The default action for a traffic filtering Flow Specification is = to > : accept IP traffic that matches that particular rule. >=20 > Or does it mean that the rule is ignored? The implications are = different: A > pass permits traffic to pass whereas ignore is effectively a "delete = rule", > which may cause traffic that would otherwise pass the filter to be = impacted > differently by subsequent rules. CL: You are right this is not very clear. I think that a rule where not = all of the actions can be performed should generate a match (meaning = that subsequent filters are not evaluated) and the packet is treated as = default-accept. > 7.1 > : The remaining 4 octets carry the maximum rate information in IEEE > : floating point [IEEE.754.1985] format, units being bytes per = second. > : A traffic-rate of 0 should result on all traffic for the = particular > : flow to be discarded. >=20 > It is worth noting that while we could simply end up with = preposterously > large numbers, there is also the edge case that these floating point = values > may be NEGATIVE. The draft may wish to note that negative numbers = should be > one of: ignored (see prior comment about how this impacts rule order), = or > treated as zero (discard) >=20 CL: I suggest to add a lower bound there: flow to be discarded. On encoding the traffic-rate MUST NOT be negative. On decoding negative values MUST be treated as zero (discard all traffic). > 7.2 > See 7.1 >=20 CL: See 7.1 ;-) > 7.4 > There's a level of ambiguity in what happens when there's more than = one > redirect extended community: >=20 > : Interferes with: All other redirect functions. All redirect = =20 > : functions are mutually exclusive. If this redirect function = exists, > : then no other redirect functions can be processed. >=20 > We're allowed to install to any VRF: > : If several local instances match this criteria, > : the choice between them is a local matter >=20 > but this is partially also interacting with the text from earlier: > : Multiple traffic actions may be present for a single NLRI. The > : traffic actions are processed in ascending order of the sub-type > : found in the BGP Extended Communities. If not all of them can be > : processed the filter SHALL NOT be applied at all >=20 > So, consider the case where we have two redirect extended communities. = If > one of them does not have any matching VRFs, should the "SHALL NOT be > applied at all" kick in? If both can be used, do we pick the first as > implied by ascending order? Or do we take a wider reading of the 7.4 = text > and let the implementation just pick one? CL: As of section 7.6. it is not allowed to have multiple redirect = extended communities (-> interfering actions -> treat as withdraw): 1. Redirect-action-communities (0x8008, 0x8108, 0x8208): The three redirect-communities are mutually exclusive. Only a single redirect community may be associated with a Flow Specification otherwise they are interfering. > This indirectly raises a different point: For each of the action = communities > that aren't expected to allow multiple instances, how do you deal with = the > repeats? E.g. two traffic-rate extended communities? CL: As of section 7.6 this is not allowed: 2. All traffic-action communities (including redirect-actions): Multiple occurences of the same (sub-type and type) traffic- action associated with a Flow Specification are always interfering. See also the above > 7.6 covers the fact that only a single redirect community can be = associated > with a flowspec. However, given that some routers may have target:A = working > but not target:B and vice versa elsewhere, we shouldn't necessarily = restrict > this. =20 >=20 CL: yes this is a known drawback if we limit the redirect actions. We = may also go with sorting them and picking the lowest/highest possible. > 7.6.1 illustrates the idea that they are a conflict that should be = treated > as withdraw. I believe this is not the desired behavior. CL: as above in the specification it actually is. But as you pointed out = maybe it is better to loosen this restriction and get some ordering in = place (what should happen if a device is able to follow 2 redirect = rules? We should not duplicate the packet :-) ) =20 >=20 > 9.2 Another reference to this being version 1. CL: remove. >=20 > 13. > s/MuPedro/Pedro/ CL: apply regex/replace >=20 > =E2=80=94=20 Christoph=20 --=20 Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | = http://www.nextlayer.at --Apple-Mail=_0BE6A93F-6D0D-416C-91A9-C8FAB141FE0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi = Jeff, 

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback on the = draft.

As I = promised this is the full report on your feedback on 5575bis draft. I = appreciate discussion on the list. And will update the draft document = next week according to the discussion.

However, I really need to make clear = (again): With this -BIS we want to make things clearer and want to = improve interoperability. We avoid fundamental changes that lead to = incompatibility (esp. when it comes to encoding of the NLRI and = propagation of the NLRI). Please always keep that in mind when = suggesting changes (basically this is *not* flowspec 2.0)

Said that, I think the = current RFC5575 implementations (at least those I am aware of) are = widely compatible/compliant implementations also of the 5575BIS but may = lack some minor details that have previously not been specified to that = granularity (in RFC5575).

See my comments inline (CL).

Cheers Christoph

From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Subject: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis
Date: 12. July 2018 at 20:58:55 CEST
To: idr@ietf.org

As I promised Sue, I've done a thorough = re-read of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis.
This re-read was = partially prompted by recent work in my employer's
implementation so this was very fresh.

Here are my comments:

: =   A Flow Specification received from an external autonomous = system will
:   need to be validated against = unicast routing before being accepted.
:   If = the aggregate traffic flow defined by the unicast destination
:   prefix is forwarded to a given BGP peer, then = the local system can
:   safely install more = specific flow rules that may result in different
: =   forwarding behavior, as requested by this system.

Issue: Redirections may need additional = scrutiny.  While the destination
based check on the = received unicast routing is good, it's still possible for
the external AS to influence forwarding beyond = "rate-limit/drop" if scrutiny
is not given to the other = control communities.  This issue is compounded
with = the redirect-ip feature, not in this document.

I'd suggest this be mentioned in an operational security = considerations
section.

CL: As a matter of fact there is = already a paragraph mentioning this particular problem. However I = suggest to make it clearer with a operational security considerations = section as you suggested:

   While the general verification of the traffic filter NLRI =
is
   specified in this document (Section 6) the traffic filtering actions
   received by a third party may need custom verification or filtering.
   In particular all non traffic-rate actions may allow a third party to
   modify packet forwarding properties and potentially gain access to
   other routing-tables/VPNs or undesired queues.  This can be avoided
   by proper filtering of action communities at network borders and by
   mapping user-defined communities (see Section 7) to expose certain
   forwarding properties to third parties.



: =   In many deployments of BGP Flow Specification, the Flow = Specification
:   information has replace = existing host length route advertisements.

s/replace/replaced/.  Also, it's unclear in the context = of this paragraph
why this is interesting.  A bit of = explanatory text explaining the use of
such most-specific = routes for redirecting traffic would be useful.

CL: Suggest to remove the sentence from = the draft


:   Experience with = previous BGP extensions has also shown that the
: =   maximum capacity of BGP speakers has been gradually = increased
:   according to expected loads. =  Taking into account Internet unicast
: =   routing as well as additional applications as they gain = popularity.

The last sentence is = dangling.

CL: Suggest to rephrase:

   Experience with =
previous BGP extensions has also shown that the
   maximum capacity of BGP speakers has been gradually increased
   according to expected loads.  For example Internet unicast routing as
   well as other BGP applications increased their maximum capacity as
   they gain popularity.

:   Flow Specification components must follow = strict type ordering by
:   increasing numerical = order.  A given component type may (exactly
: =   once) or may not be present in the specification.  If = present, it
:   MUST precede any component of = higher numeric type value.

.... and what if = they don't?  Is it malformed?  Should the implementation
attempt to re-order?

CL: [1] I sent an email roughly a month = ago to start a discussion about the encoding of the NLRI - with no = response:

*) = NLRI is widely ment opaque to BGP (no changes to RFC5575)

but: 

*) BGP needs to decode = the NLRI to the first component (DST-IP) for the verification (Section = 6) (not more of it! - the rest is part of the application that receives = the NLRI)

Since = changing the above properties would introduce a fundamental change to FS = I strongly beleave that it does not fit into a 5575bis.

If the components are = not in the right order the encoding _is_wrong_. However BGP cannot = detect this, because its knowledge about the correct encoding ends after = the very first component (DST-IP). So, to obey the rules (RFC5575) of an = opaque NLRI FS-garbage gets propagated. Only when the decoding of the = NLRI actually happens (not in BGP) such invalids can be detected and = need to be ignored. 

Additionally reordering is not possible because BGP has no = understanding of the components (which is actually good because it = allows future extensions) - (btw. reordering/re-encoding of the NLRI is = potentially dangerous because it may produce =E2=80=9Cghost=E2=80=9D/=E2=80= =9Cmutated" duplicates of an NLRI in the network).

I suggest to add a = paragraph to the draft to make it clear.

Please also refer to my Email one or = two months ago - the suggested changes (100% compatible with current = implementations) may also help to introduce future extensions.


:   All combinations of component types within a = single NLRI are allowed,
:   even if the = combination makes no sense from a semantical perspective.
: =   If a given component type within a prefix in unknown, the = prefix in
:   question cannot be used for = traffic filtering purposes by the
:   receiver. =  Since a Flow Specification has the semantics of a logical
:   AND of all components, if a component is FALSE, = by definition it
:   cannot be applied. =  However, for the purposes of BGP route
: =   propagation, this prefix should still be transmitted since = BGP route
:   distribution is independent on = NLRI semantics.

The issue here is when we = encounter an unknown component, we can no longer
verify = the syntactic correctness of the NLRI.  This means we will pass
potentially invalid entries downstream.  Downstream = receivers must thus not
drop the session, but should use = treat-as-withdraw semantics.

This issue in = validation, as I tersely noted in a prior IDR thread, really
needs discussion in the document.  It impacts the = ability to verify, to add
new component types, and = potentially cause invalid NLRI to propagate
downstream.

CL: See the above comment. As long as BGP treats the = NLRI as an opaque value we do not have a problem with all this (not even = with new FS components). Downstram propagation of the garbage can be = partly avoided (see my Email on that topic) at some cost. But this issue = exists with every BGP opaque NLRI - this is not special to FS.


: =   The <type, value> encoding is chosen in order to allow = for future
:   extensibility.

It should be mentioned that due to the property above that = extensions are
problematic.

CL: This is true, and I think that = should be removed. (See also the 2 comments above)


4.2.3:
: =     0   1   2   3 =   4   5   6   7
: =   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
: =   | e | a |  len  | 0 |lt |gt |eq |
: =   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
:
:        Numeric = operator

The 0 field is unclear what the = expected behavior is when it's NOT = zero.

: =      a - AND bit.  If unset, the previous = term is logically ORed with
: =      the current one.  If set, the = operation is a logical AND.  It
: =      should be unset in the first operator byte = of a sequence.  The AND
: =      operator has higher priority than OR for = the purposes of
:      evaluating = logical expressions.

It's not clear what = should be done if AND is set in the first list entry.

:      len - length of the value = field for this operand encodes 1 (00) -
: =      4 (11) bytes.  Type 3 flow component = values are always encoded as
: =      single byte (len =3D 00).

"always encoded" begs the question about what to do when it = isn't.  Being
encoded as 4 bytes of length but a = length of 1 is still correct, e.g.  Does
Postel's = maxim apply here?

CL: I suggest change all = the occurrences of 0, and must be 0 to =E2=80=9CMUST be encoded as 0 and = ignored on decoding=E2=80=9D. Also we suggest (SHOULD) to encode the = length of the compoents. Furthermore we suggest a-and bit MUST be unset = on first operator, and ignored on decode (mainly for compatibility = reasons - I do not want to discuss if Postel was right or not :-) = ):

      e - =
end-of-list bit.  Set in the last {op, value} pair in the
      list.

      a - AND bit.  If unset, the previous term is logically ORed with
      the current one.  If set, the operation is a logical AND.  In the
      first operator byte of a sequence it MUST be encoded as unset and
      and MUST be treated as always unset on decoding.  The AND operator
      has higher priority than OR for the purposes of evaluating logical
      expressions.

      len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) -
      4 (11) bytes.  Type 3 flow component values SHOULD be encoded as
      single byte (len =3D 00).

      0 - MUST be set to 0 on NLRI encoding, and MUST be ignored during
      decoding

      lt - less than comparison between data and value.

      gt - greater than comparison between data and value.

      eq - equality between data and value.




4.2.4
: =      Defines a list of {operator, value} pairs = that matches source OR
: =      destination TCP/UDP ports.  This list = is encoded using the numeric
: =      operator format defined in Section 4.2.3. =  Values are encoded as
: =      1- or 2-byte quantities.

It's not clear what to do if the encoding is > 2 byte. =  Ditto for sections
4.2.5, 4.2.6, etc.

CL: Same solution as the above. (4.2.3)

4.2.9 has a similar "must be zero" set of = bits that need to have their
behavior specified.

CL: Same solution as above = (4.2.3)


4.2.11
:      Defines = a list of {operator, value} pairs used to match the 6-bit
: =      DSCP field [RFC2474].  This list is = encoded using the numeric
: =      operator format defined in Section 4.2.3. =  Values are encoded
: =      using a single byte.  The two most = significant bits are zero and
: =      the six least significant bits contain the = DSCP value.

It's not specified what to do = when the top two bits are set.

CL: Same solution as = above (4.2.3)


4.2.12
:    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
:    |   Reserved =    |LF |FF |IsF|DF |
: =    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
:
:      Bitmask values:
:
: =         Bit 7 - Don't fragment = (DF)
:
: =         Bit 6 - Is a fragment = (IsF)
:
: =         Bit 5 - First fragment = (FF)
:
: =         Bit 4 - Last fragment = (LF)


While the general = behavior of unexpected lengths is already unclear, it's
even= less clear here.  

Reserved behavior = is not defined.  "Must be zero on transmit, should be zero
on receive?"

It's also not = specified whether this is "any of" or not.  This impacts
whether multiple bits being set is valid for some = combinations.

CL: Regarding the reserved bits: Same = solution as above (4.2.3).

Regarding the any-of or distinct/bitwise match. This is = explained in section 4.2.9 where the bit-operator is = introduced.

   m -   Match bit.  If set, this is a bitwise match =
operation defined
      as "(data AND value) =3D=3D value"; if unset, (data AND value)
      evaluates to TRUE if any of the bits in the value mask are set in
      the data


5.

:   filtering = (prevention of traffic-based, denial-of-service (DOS)
: =   attacks, traffic filtering in the context of BGP/MPLS VPN = service,
:   and centralized traffic control for = SDN/NFV networks) requires

The separate = clauses here likely need to be semicolon separated since the
first clause is a compound separated by a comma. =  Alternatively leave to the
RFC editor to straight it = out.

CL: Editorial changes.


:   Section 8 has details on the = limitation
:   of previous mechanisms and why = BGP Flow Specification version 1
:   provides a = solution for to prevent DOS and aid BGP/MPLS VPN filtering
:=   rules.

I think this is the = first time in the document this is referred to as v1 of
the = spec.

CL: This is definitely wrong and all = occurrences of FS v1 need to be removed.


:   This Flow Specification NLRI = defined above to convey information
:   about = traffic filtering rules for traffic that should be discarded or
:   handled in manner specified by a set of = pre-defined actions (which
:   are defined in = BGP Extended Communities).  This mechanism is
: =   primarily designed to allow an upstream autonomous system to = perform
:   inbound filtering in their ingress = routers of traffic that a given
:   downstream = AS wishes to drop.

There's several bits of = awkwardness in the above paragraph.  But among them
is = the presumption of drop being the default choice in the last = sentence.

CL: There is a default in the = specification under section 7 (accept). This is again also a question of = extensibility. If new action-communities are =E2=80=9Cinvented=E2=80=9D = a older implementation may not be able to identify those extended = communities and thus may think that *no* action is specified (so it is = forwarding the traffic to a node that knows about that new = action). 

However FS-filter matching normally stops at the first match = (subsequent FS-filters after the match are not taken into = consideration). 

I suggest to remove the invalid =E2=80=9Cdefault=E2=80=9D = choice from this paragraph and explain the behaviour as described above. = Section 7 as you pointed out below however should be a bit more verbose = on the matching process.


5.1
:   The relative order of two = Flow Specification rules is determined by
: =   comparing their respective components.  The algorithm = starts by
:   comparing the left-most components = of the rules. 

The importance of = whether the components are sorted becomes critical here.
Given the semantic ambiguity of components the receiver is = unable to decode
(unknown), the length check also can't be = applied here.  This is mostly
important for likely = buggy cases where two NLRI are semantically identical
but = mis-ordered.  Compare vs. the RFC 3107 withdraw ambiguities for = label
value some time ago.

A = trite example is consider two NLRI both containing the type 4 port = field,
both containing the same 1-byte value (e.g. 255), = but one encoded using a
single byte of length, the other = with two bytes of length.  Is this an
implicit update = or not?

Somewhat similarly, duplicate = components aren't specifically called out, but
potentially = implied (as noted in an IDR exchange) by the requirements of the
sort order.  Exactly what the behavior is in the face of = duplicates should
be specified.

CL: NLRI re-en-coding is not acceptable since it = introduces a hole lot of problems. Opaqueness of the NLRI to BGP is = somehow vital to avoid such situations altogether. See also the comment = above [1].

6.
:   The underlying concept is = that the neighboring AS that advertises the
: =   best unicast route for a destination is allowed to advertise = flow-
:   spec information that conveys a more = or equally specific destination
:   prefix. =  Thus, as long as there are no more specific unicast routes,
:   received from a different neighboring AS, which = would be affected by
:   that filtering rule.


Observation: An address space = hijack that is not filtered, e.g.
advertisement of a more = specific route, may prevent inter-as flowspec from
validating.  This might be worth putting in the = operational considerations
section.

CL: Yes, adding the operational = considerations section:

   Since verfication of the traffic filtering NLRI is tied to =
the
   announcement of the best unicast route, a unfiltered address space
   hijack (e.g. advertisement of a more specific route) may cause this
   verification to fail and consequently prevent Flow Specification
   filters from being accepted by a peer.

7.
:   Multiple traffic actions may = be present for a single NLRI.  The
: =   traffic actions are processed in ascending order of the = sub-type
:   found in the BGP Extended = Communities.  If not all of them can be
: =   processed the filter SHALL NOT be applied at all (for = example: if for
:   a given flow there are the = action communities rate-limit-bytes and
: =   traffic-marking attached, and the plattform does not support = one of
:   them also the other shall not be = applied for that flow).

Typo on = platform.
The extended communities defined are not only a = given sub-type, but also a
type field.  The above = suggestion is ambiguous about the case where the
subtypes = are equal but the types are distinct.

I'm = also wondering if the "applied at all" is the desired wording. =  Does
that mean, as earlier presented in the draft, = we get:

:   The default action = for a traffic filtering Flow Specification is to
: =   accept IP traffic that matches that particular rule.

Or does it mean that the rule is ignored? =  The implications are different: A
pass permits = traffic to pass whereas ignore is effectively a "delete rule",
which may cause traffic that would otherwise pass the filter = to be impacted
differently by subsequent rules.

CL: You are right this is not very = clear. I think that a rule where not all of the actions can be performed = should generate a match (meaning that subsequent filters are not = evaluated) and the packet is treated as default-accept.

7.1
:   The remaining = 4 octets carry the maximum rate information in IEEE
: =   floating point [IEEE.754.1985] format, units being bytes per = second.
:   A traffic-rate of 0 should result on = all traffic for the particular
:   flow to be = discarded.

It is worth noting that while we = could simply end up with preposterously
large numbers, = there is also the edge case that these floating point values
may be NEGATIVE.  The draft may wish to note that = negative numbers should be
one of: ignored (see prior = comment about how this impacts rule order), or
treated as = zero (discard)


CL: I suggest to add a = lower bound there:

   flow to be discarded.  On encoding the traffic-rate MUST =
NOT be
   negative.  On decoding negative values MUST be treated as zero
   (discard all traffic).

7.2
See 7.1


CL: See 7.1 ;-)

7.4
There's a level of ambiguity in what = happens when there's more than one
redirect extended = community:

:   Interferes with: = All other redirect functions.  All redirect =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;           
:   functions are mutually exclusive.  If this = redirect function exists,
:   then no other = redirect functions can be processed.

We're = allowed to install to any VRF:
:   If several = local instances match this criteria,
:   the = choice between them is a local matter

but = this is partially also interacting with the text from earlier:
:   Multiple traffic actions may be present for a = single NLRI.  The
:   traffic actions are = processed in ascending order of the sub-type
: =   found in the BGP Extended Communities.  If not all of = them can be
:   processed the filter SHALL NOT = be applied at all

So, consider the case = where we have two redirect extended communities.  If
one of them does not have any matching VRFs, should the = "SHALL NOT be
applied at all" kick in?  If both can = be used, do we pick the first as
implied by ascending = order?  Or do we take a wider reading of the 7.4 text
and let the implementation just pick one?

CL: As of section 7.6. it is not allowed to have = multiple redirect extended communities (-> interfering actions -> = treat as withdraw):

   1.  Redirect-action-communities (0x8008, 0x8108, 0x8208):

       The three redirect-communities are mutually exclusive.  Only a
       single redirect community may be associated with a Flow
       Specification otherwise they are interfering.


This indirectly raises a different point: For each of the = action communities
that aren't expected to allow multiple = instances, how do you deal with the
repeats?  E.g. = two traffic-rate extended communities?

CL: As of section 7.6 this is not allowed:

   2.  All =
traffic-action communities (including redirect-actions):

       Multiple occurences of the same (sub-type and type) traffic-
       action associated with a Flow Specification are always
       interfering.
See also the above


7.6 covers the fact that only a single = redirect community can be associated
with a flowspec. =  However, given that some routers may have target:A working
but not target:B and vice versa elsewhere, we shouldn't = necessarily restrict
this.  


CL: yes this is a known drawback if we = limit the redirect actions. We may also go with sorting them and picking = the lowest/highest possible.

7.6.1 illustrates the idea that they are a conflict that = should be treated
as withdraw.  I believe this is not = the desired behavior.

CL: as above in the = specification it actually is. But as you pointed out maybe it is better = to loosen this restriction and get some ordering in place (what should = happen if a device is able to follow 2 redirect rules? We should not = duplicate the packet :-) )  


9.2 Another reference to this being version 1.

CL: remove.

13.
s/MuPedro/Pedro/

CL: apply regex/replace


=E2=80=94 

Christoph 

-- 
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 = | http://www.nextlayer.at




= --Apple-Mail=_0BE6A93F-6D0D-416C-91A9-C8FAB141FE0E-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 09:28:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8D0130E64 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57gQIW5QOH-7 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989571294D0 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 695631E45C; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:27:37 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Christoph Loibl Cc: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:28:14 -0000 Christoph, On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 12:19:27PM +0200, Christoph Loibl wrote: > Thank you very much for your detailed feedback on the draft. > > As I promised this is the full report on your feedback on 5575bis draft. I appreciate discussion on the list. And will update the draft document next week according to the discussion. > > However, I really need to make clear (again): With this -BIS we want to make things clearer and want to improve interoperability. We avoid fundamental changes that lead to incompatibility (esp. when it comes to encoding of the NLRI and propagation of the NLRI). Please always keep that in mind when suggesting changes (basically this is *not* flowspec 2.0) [Some moralization about -bis documents.] -bis documents are usually issued to clarify or fix broken behaviors. While this often means fixing easy errata, it also means the opportunity to address things fundamentally broken in the original specificiation. While I realize the authors' intent may be to do the least work necessary, changes are already present that impact previously on-the-wire valid encoding in a way that is not necessarily fully backward compatible. And *that's fine*, as long as it has working group consensus. (Specific example being restriction of various filters to be of a specific field length when that field length had a natural length, but wasn't previously restricted against larger lengths in the original spec.) So, while it may be the authors' intent to try to keep things small, it's not out of order to try to make sure important things are addressed. > > Issue: Redirections may need additional scrutiny. While the destination > > based check on the received unicast routing is good, it's still possible for > > the external AS to influence forwarding beyond "rate-limit/drop" if scrutiny > > is not given to the other control communities. This issue is compounded > > with the redirect-ip feature, not in this document. > > > > I'd suggest this be mentioned in an operational security considerations > > section. > > CL: As a matter of fact there is already a paragraph mentioning this particular problem. However I suggest to make it clearer with a operational security considerations section as you suggested: > > While the general verification of the traffic filter NLRI is > specified in this document (Section 6) the traffic filtering actions > received by a third party may need custom verification or filtering. > In particular all non traffic-rate actions may allow a third party to > modify packet forwarding properties and potentially gain access to > other routing-tables/VPNs or undesired queues. This can be avoided > by proper filtering of action communities at network borders and by > mapping user-defined communities (see Section 7) to expose certain > forwarding properties to third parties. This is reasonable text. > > > > > > : In many deployments of BGP Flow Specification, the Flow Specification > > : information has replace existing host length route advertisements. > > > > s/replace/replaced/. Also, it's unclear in the context of this paragraph > > why this is interesting. A bit of explanatory text explaining the use of > > such most-specific routes for redirecting traffic would be useful. > > CL: Suggest to remove the sentence from the draft Works for me. > > : Flow Specification components must follow strict type ordering by > > : increasing numerical order. A given component type may (exactly > > : once) or may not be present in the specification. If present, it > > : MUST precede any component of higher numeric type value. > > > > .... and what if they don't? Is it malformed? Should the implementation > > attempt to re-order? > > CL: [1] I sent an email roughly a month ago to start a discussion about the encoding of the NLRI - with no response: You may have noticed I and others have erratic IETF reply time. :-) > *) NLRI is widely ment opaque to BGP (no changes to RFC5575) > > but: > > *) BGP needs to decode the NLRI to the first component (DST-IP) for the verification (Section 6) (not more of it! - the rest is part of the application that receives the NLRI) > > Since changing the above properties would introduce a fundamental change to FS I strongly beleave that it does not fit into a 5575bis. > > If the components are not in the right order the encoding _is_wrong_. However BGP cannot detect this, because its knowledge about the correct encoding ends after the very first component (DST-IP). So, to obey the rules (RFC5575) of an opaque NLRI FS-garbage gets propagated. Only when the decoding of the NLRI actually happens (not in BGP) such invalids can be detected and need to be ignored. The "opaque" requirement is the thing I fundamentally question and I believe is deserving of more WG discussion. As you note in your own paper on flowspec given at RIPE 74: "In that case such a BGP UPDATE may lead to BGP sessions flapping not only on adjacent routers but also on remote routesrs not directly connected with the router that originates that NLRI as long as it is part of that same flow-specification domain". We fall back to an NLRI form of what I have called "optional transitive nonsense" when discussing such errors for Path Attributes. Don't understand it? Propogate it. Cause issues downstream. As you note in that same paper, at least one vendor fails to propagate flowspec routes when they don't install a filter. My employer's implementation currently drops sessions when components that aren't understood are received. This is arguably wrong, but 5575 existed before RFC 7606 error handling procedures became the norm. These days, "treat as withdraw" may be the best behavior if not propagated opaquely. I'll note that your paper didn't test for this condition. Finding out what the other implementations do is reasonable in a -bis situation to determine if this "propagate opaque" is the best idea. > Additionally reordering is not possible because BGP has no understanding of the components (which is actually good because it allows future extensions) - (btw. reordering/re-encoding of the NLRI is potentially dangerous because it may produce “ghostâ€/“mutated" duplicates of an NLRI in the network). This is already problematic. Consider the case of L3VPNs where the label portion of the NLRI wasn't cleanly specified. A result of this was edge cases of key comparison being done differently on some implementations. Basically, while I agree with the core point, BGP extensions already force us to consider such things. > I suggest to add a paragraph to the draft to make it clear. > > Please also refer to my Email one or two months ago - the suggested changes (100% compatible with current implementations) may also help to introduce future extensions. URL, please? > CL: See the above comment. As long as BGP treats the NLRI as an opaque value we do not have a problem with all this (not even with new FS components). Downstram propagation of the garbage can be partly avoided (see my Email on that topic) at some cost. But this issue exists with every BGP opaque NLRI - this is not special to FS. NLRI is generally NOT opaque in BGP. This is a fundamental design issue of the protocol that prevents the deployment of completely generic propogation infrastructure. What did you have in mind here? > > 4.2.3: > > : 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > > : | e | a | len | 0 |lt |gt |eq | > > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > > : [...] > > > > : len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) - > > : 4 (11) bytes. Type 3 flow component values are always encoded as > > : single byte (len = 00). > > > > "always encoded" begs the question about what to do when it isn't. Being > > encoded as 4 bytes of length but a length of 1 is still correct, e.g. Does > > Postel's maxim apply here? > > CL: I suggest change all the occurrences of 0, and must be 0 to “MUST be encoded as 0 and ignored on decodingâ€. Also we suggest (SHOULD) to encode the length of the compoents. Furthermore we suggest a-and bit MUST be unset on first operator, and ignored on decode (mainly for compatibility reasons - I do not want to discuss if Postel was right or not :-) ): This is a point where a blanket declaration risks making existing implementations non-compliant. Again, poentially in scope, but not quite consistent with your stated aims. :-) > a - AND bit. If unset, the previous term is logically ORed with > the current one. If set, the operation is a logical AND. In the > first operator byte of a sequence it MUST be encoded as unset and > and MUST be treated as always unset on decoding. The AND operator > has higher priority than OR for the purposes of evaluating logical > expressions. While I think this is reasonable, it does run up against some issues with regards to encoding. As you note, how we treat issues for reordering apply here. This is because implementations that follow this behavior are likely to mask off the and behavior. Implementations often regenerate the NLRI from internal data structures. As a result, doing the right thing runs into one of your other concerns. IMO, the right thing to do is keep the text above. > len - length of the value field for this operand encodes 1 (00) - > 4 (11) bytes. Type 3 flow component values SHOULD be encoded as > single byte (len = 00). I'm good with this. Same to other length comments later on. > 0 - MUST be set to 0 on NLRI encoding, and MUST be ignored during > decoding SHOULD is more appropriate here, lest you break future extensions. > > 4.2.11 > > : Defines a list of {operator, value} pairs used to match the 6-bit > > : DSCP field [RFC2474]. This list is encoded using the numeric > > : operator format defined in Section 4.2.3. Values are encoded > > : using a single byte. The two most significant bits are zero and > > : the six least significant bits contain the DSCP value. > > > > It's not specified what to do when the top two bits are set. > > CL: Same solution as above (4.2.3) SHOULD be zero and ignored on receipt is fine. > > > > > 4.2.12 > > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > > : | Reserved |LF |FF |IsF|DF | > > : +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > > : > > : Bitmask values: > > : > > : Bit 7 - Don't fragment (DF) > > : > > : Bit 6 - Is a fragment (IsF) > > : > > : Bit 5 - First fragment (FF) > > : > > : Bit 4 - Last fragment (LF) > > > > > > While the general behavior of unexpected lengths is already unclear, it's > > even less clear here. > > > > Reserved behavior is not defined. "Must be zero on transmit, should be zero > > on receive?" > > > > It's also not specified whether this is "any of" or not. This impacts > > whether multiple bits being set is valid for some combinations. > > CL: Regarding the reserved bits: Same solution as above (4.2.3). > > Regarding the any-of or distinct/bitwise match. This is explained in section 4.2.9 where the bit-operator is introduced. > > m - Match bit. If set, this is a bitwise match operation defined > as "(data AND value) == value"; if unset, (data AND value) > evaluates to TRUE if any of the bits in the value mask are set in > the data Agreed. > > : This Flow Specification NLRI defined above to convey information > > : about traffic filtering rules for traffic that should be discarded or > > : handled in manner specified by a set of pre-defined actions (which > > : are defined in BGP Extended Communities). This mechanism is > > : primarily designed to allow an upstream autonomous system to perform > > : inbound filtering in their ingress routers of traffic that a given > > : downstream AS wishes to drop. > > > > There's several bits of awkwardness in the above paragraph. But among them > > is the presumption of drop being the default choice in the last sentence. > > CL: There is a default in the specification under section 7 (accept). This is again also a question of extensibility. If new action-communities are “invented†a older implementation may not be able to identify those extended communities and thus may think that *no* action is specified (so it is forwarding the traffic to a node that knows about that new action). > > However FS-filter matching normally stops at the first match (subsequent FS-filters after the match are not taken into consideration). > > I suggest to remove the invalid “default†choice from this paragraph and explain the behaviour as described above. Section 7 as you pointed out below however should be a bit more verbose on the matching process. I'll look for the proposed text. > > 5.1 [...] > > Somewhat similarly, duplicate components aren't specifically called out, but > > potentially implied (as noted in an IDR exchange) by the requirements of the > > sort order. Exactly what the behavior is in the face of duplicates should > > be specified. > > CL: NLRI re-en-coding is not acceptable since it introduces a hole lot of problems. Opaqueness of the NLRI to BGP is somehow vital to avoid such situations altogether. See also the comment above [1]. See again prior comments. Many implementations build data structurres from received NLRI. If you understand it, you may regenerate it in canonical order. If you don't understand it, your implementation has no choice to treat it opaquely. The issue here is cases where you do understand it, but it's inconsistent. So, I don't think your general opaque comment holds here. Our implementation is likely at some future point to permit propagation of opaque entries, but will likely default to "treat as withdraw". > CL: Yes, adding the operational considerations section: > > Since verfication of the traffic filtering NLRI is tied to the > announcement of the best unicast route, a unfiltered address space > hijack (e.g. advertisement of a more specific route) may cause this > verification to fail and consequently prevent Flow Specification > filters from being accepted by a peer. Thanks. > > > > 7. > > : Multiple traffic actions may be present for a single NLRI. The > > : traffic actions are processed in ascending order of the sub-type > > : found in the BGP Extended Communities. If not all of them can be > > : processed the filter SHALL NOT be applied at all (for example: if for > > : a given flow there are the action communities rate-limit-bytes and > > : traffic-marking attached, and the plattform does not support one of > > : them also the other shall not be applied for that flow). > > > > Typo on platform. > > The extended communities defined are not only a given sub-type, but also a > > type field. The above suggestion is ambiguous about the case where the > > subtypes are equal but the types are distinct. > > > > I'm also wondering if the "applied at all" is the desired wording. Does > > that mean, as earlier presented in the draft, we get: > > > > : The default action for a traffic filtering Flow Specification is to > > : accept IP traffic that matches that particular rule. > > > > Or does it mean that the rule is ignored? The implications are different: A > > pass permits traffic to pass whereas ignore is effectively a "delete rule", > > which may cause traffic that would otherwise pass the filter to be impacted > > differently by subsequent rules. > > CL: You are right this is not very clear. I think that a rule where not all of the actions can be performed should generate a match (meaning that subsequent filters are not evaluated) and the packet is treated as default-accept. I think that default accept is probably the SAFEST behavior, but is perhaps not what is desired. I suggest flagging this issue for explicit WG discussion. > > 7.1 > > : The remaining 4 octets carry the maximum rate information in IEEE > > : floating point [IEEE.754.1985] format, units being bytes per second. > > : A traffic-rate of 0 should result on all traffic for the particular > > : flow to be discarded. > > > > It is worth noting that while we could simply end up with preposterously > > large numbers, there is also the edge case that these floating point values > > may be NEGATIVE. The draft may wish to note that negative numbers should be > > one of: ignored (see prior comment about how this impacts rule order), or > > treated as zero (discard) > > > > CL: I suggest to add a lower bound there: > > flow to be discarded. On encoding the traffic-rate MUST NOT be > negative. On decoding negative values MUST be treated as zero > (discard all traffic). This seems reasonable. > > 7.4 > > There's a level of ambiguity in what happens when there's more than one > > redirect extended community: > > > > : Interferes with: All other redirect functions. All redirect > > : functions are mutually exclusive. If this redirect function exists, > > : then no other redirect functions can be processed. > > > > We're allowed to install to any VRF: > > : If several local instances match this criteria, > > : the choice between them is a local matter > > > > but this is partially also interacting with the text from earlier: > > : Multiple traffic actions may be present for a single NLRI. The > > : traffic actions are processed in ascending order of the sub-type > > : found in the BGP Extended Communities. If not all of them can be > > : processed the filter SHALL NOT be applied at all > > > > So, consider the case where we have two redirect extended communities. If > > one of them does not have any matching VRFs, should the "SHALL NOT be > > applied at all" kick in? If both can be used, do we pick the first as > > implied by ascending order? Or do we take a wider reading of the 7.4 text > > and let the implementation just pick one? > > CL: As of section 7.6. it is not allowed to have multiple redirect extended communities (-> interfering actions -> treat as withdraw): Again, that's a change of behavior and one that interferes with scenarios where flowspec routes may be propagated among a set of routers with disjoint VRFs. > 1. Redirect-action-communities (0x8008, 0x8108, 0x8208): > > The three redirect-communities are mutually exclusive. Only a > single redirect community may be associated with a Flow > Specification otherwise they are interfering. > > > > This indirectly raises a different point: For each of the action communities > > that aren't expected to allow multiple instances, how do you deal with the > > repeats? E.g. two traffic-rate extended communities? > > CL: As of section 7.6 this is not allowed: > > 2. All traffic-action communities (including redirect-actions): > > Multiple occurences of the same (sub-type and type) traffic- > action associated with a Flow Specification are always > interfering. > See also the above > > > > 7.6 covers the fact that only a single redirect community can be associated > > with a flowspec. However, given that some routers may have target:A working > > but not target:B and vice versa elsewhere, we shouldn't necessarily restrict > > this. > > > > CL: yes this is a known drawback if we limit the redirect actions. We may also go with sorting them and picking the lowest/highest possible. This is a change of behavior and one I disagree with. :-) Also, one that I'll fight all the way through WGLC. This is deployed behavior among my customer-base. That said, my request is that the spec discuss inconsistencies rather than trying to preclude it. It's also worth noting that "magic community" issues are endemic to BESS documents. I've been wanting to write a draft there discussing it, but it's been on my low priority queue. -- Jeff From nobody Thu Oct 4 10:57:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5A8130EC9 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:56:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1aTZ24R2v4u for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75801130ECD for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:56:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.93; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:56:39 -0400 Message-ID: <004701d45c0b$9c1d2b60$d4578220$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01D45BEA.150C9CD0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRcCjHFjafa26c3TNG6aodt12wxfw== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181004-2, 10/04/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Interim on 10/26/2018 instead of IETF 103 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:56:59 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01D45BEA.150C9CD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: IDR will have an virtual interim on 10/26/2018 from 10:00 - 12:00 ET instead of a meeting at IETF 103. Both chairs will not be able to attend IETF 103. John Scudder let me know at IETF 102 that he had another commitment. This week I found out that my husband will be for surgery during first 10 days of November - so I will not be able to attend IETF 103. Please send John and I requests for presentations at the interim on 10/26/2018. Susan Hares Co-chair IDR ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01D45BEA.150C9CD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

 

IDR will have an virtual interim on 10/26/2018 from = 10:00 – 12:00 ET instead of a meeting at IETF 103.  =

 

Both chairs will not be able to attend IETF 103. =  John Scudder let me know at IETF 102 that he had another = commitment. This week I found out that my husband will be for surgery = during first 10 days of November – so I will not be able to attend = IETF 103. 

 

Please send = John and I requests for presentations at the interim on 10/26/2018. =

 

Susan Hares

Co-chair IDR

 

=

 

------=_NextPart_000_0048_01D45BEA.150C9CD0-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 12:29:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C7B128CF3; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:29:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pS-U69l_SAXv; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 143071277BB; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:29:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.93; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:29:19 -0400 Message-ID: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01D45BF7.05F6D820" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRcF3khifKLKTceSAqH5NWF+nXt6A== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181004-2, 10/04/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 19:29:31 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D45BF7.05F6D820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence: This document is generally in excellent shape. I note the following four things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to Alvaro Retana: 1) Editorial: Page 3 states "Unidirectional Packet Loss", but section 3.4 says "Unidirectional Link Loss TLV" Please fix this editorial error. It is a requirement for sending to the IESG for publication 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional comments in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE information in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. Is this what you want? If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review. 3) We do not have any implementations reported. Please put the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki - under implementation reports. 4) An IPR statement directly from Clarence Fils on this draft. John approved the WG LC based on a related IPR statement, but I fear this will not be sufficient for the current IESG. Please as Clarence to respond to this email with an IPR Statement. The Shepherd's report is online. This document will stay in "Waiting implementation" until John or I receive a report on 2 implementations. Please place this on the Wiki. Cheerily, Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D45BF7.05F6D820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les, = Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence:

 

This = document is generally in excellent shape.   I note the = following four things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to = Alvaro Retana:

 

1)      = Editorial:   =

Page 3 states “Unidirectional = Packet Loss”, but section 3.4 says “Unidirectional Link Loss = TLV”

 

Please fix this editorial error.  It is a = requirement for sending to the IESG for publication

 

2)      = Security Section – = Consider whether you want to add additional comments in your security = section about the distribution of IGP TE information in BGP. =   Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the = appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP = infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. =  Is this what you want?

If so, I will forward this to the security = directorate for their review.

 

3)      = We do not have any = implementations reported.

 

Please put = the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki – under = implementation reports.

 

4)      = An IPR statement directly = from Clarence Fils on this draft.  John approved the WG LC based on = a related IPR statement, but I fear this will not be sufficient for the = current IESG.  Please as Clarence to respond to this email with an = IPR Statement.

 

The = Shepherd’s report is online.  This document will stay in = “Waiting implementation” until John or I receive a report on = 2 implementations.  Please place this on the Wiki. =

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares =  

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D45BF7.05F6D820-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 13:12:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492E4130E5A; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TYP2OwlFCIYW; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4AA2130E4C; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:12:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.17.93; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: "'Huaimo Chen'" , , "'John Scudder'" , "'Alvaro Retana'" Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:12:44 -0400 Message-ID: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009C_01D45BFD.168BA110" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181004-2, 10/04/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 20:12:54 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009C_01D45BFD.168BA110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/ Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_009C_01D45BFD.168BA110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018).  A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-= as-topology-ext/

 

Please = comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts = will help operational management of networks. 

 

Susan Hares =  

IDR co-chair =

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--_000_86AFB1EF1153407CB6C27632F7C62B11junipernet_-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 15:22:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF19130DE3; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:22:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153869176452.4437.9918731376118467937@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:22:44 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Inter-Domain Routing (idr) WG Virtual Meeting: 2018-10-26 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 22:22:45 -0000 The Inter-Domain Routing (idr) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2018-10-26 from 10:00 to 12:00 America/New_York. Agenda: Agenda chairs status [10 minutes] presentations [110 minutes] Drafts are required for presentation. Information about remote participation: Webex From nobody Thu Oct 4 23:48:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5912C130DE0; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:48:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ORcaawbFrzan; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FAD5130DD8; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:48:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=13269; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1538722128; x=1539931728; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=ofUlvvJ7PNEyOcy8m92s72ZQCSb3n+RkrDBC+I9s+5w=; b=BSqsq6dJVnTAfw5BybpIVj8R/ykKUP6CyaH/Cw8NT9fgDnQp+K6Z7rk1 bYMhuvjKzdJ/Ce7bt5agI09OtHvjULiP9yKH3CcK8+H7BPBu/sX42enVS 7OUcuPcWULIGkckyAmweZvZ+XG3ccDulX6UauRvMzQCZvbOTlHdF+UdFP E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AGAABaCLdb/4gNJK1bGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUQQBAQEBAQsBgQ53Zn8oCot/ji94kCaFQBSBZgsBAYR?= =?us-ascii?q?sAoQlITQNDQEDAQECAQECbSiFOQEBAQEDLUwQAgEIDgMEAQEvMh0IAQEEAQ0?= =?us-ascii?q?FCIMagR1kpS+KEostF4FBP4ESgl01hEsBEgGFdwKOB4YFiVEJApA3H4FMhGS?= =?us-ascii?q?JQZU9AhEUgSUdOGRxcBWDJ5BVb4xOgR+BHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,343,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="458679320" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Oct 2018 06:48:46 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w956mkmV011982 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:48:47 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:48:46 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:48:46 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Thread-Index: AdRcF3khifKLKTceSAqH5NWF+nXt6AAXwnvQ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:48:46 +0000 Message-ID: <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.24.222] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 06:48:52 -0000 --_000_800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sue - Thanx for the review. Responses inline. From: Susan Hares Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:29 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@= ietf.org Subject: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence: This document is generally in excellent shape. I note the following four = things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to Alvaro Retana: 1) Editorial: Page 3 states "Unidirectional Packet Loss", but section 3.4 says "Unidirect= ional Link Loss TLV" Please fix this editorial error. It is a requirement for sending to the IE= SG for publication [Les:] I have changed these all to be "Link Loss' - consistent with RFC 781= 0. 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional comm= ents in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE information = in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the appropriat= e permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP infrastructure supp= orting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. Is this what you want? If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review. [Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motivation for your comme= nt. IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why do y= ou believe that the addition of the IGP TE information defined here require= s additional security comments? 3) We do not have any implementations reported. Please put the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki - under impl= ementation reports. [Les:] I have an implementation report for one Cisco implementation which I= will post shortly. A second Cisco implementation is currently in progress. If other vendors have implementations that they wish to share I would appre= ciate it if they either contacted me or updated the wiki after I post the i= nitial report. 4) An IPR statement directly from Clarence Fils on this draft. John a= pproved the WG LC based on a related IPR statement, but I fear this will no= t be sufficient for the current IESG. Please as Clarence to respond to thi= s email with an IPR Statement. [Les:] I have pinged Clarence on this - please expect a reply from him soon= . Les The Shepherd's report is online. This document will stay in "Waiting imple= mentation" until John or I receive a report on 2 implementations. Please p= lace this on the Wiki. Cheerily, Susan Hares --_000_800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sue –=

 

Thanx for the review.<= o:p>

Responses inline.=

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:29 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-i= dr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org
Subject: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp

 

Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence:

 

This document is generally in excellent shape. =   I note the following four things need to be fixed prior to submittin= g this to Alvaro Retana:

 

1)      Editorial:  

Page 3 states “Unidirectional Packet Loss̶= 1;, but section 3.4 says “Unidirectional Link Loss TLV”

 

Please fix this editorial error.  It is a requi= rement for sending to the IESG for publication

 

[Les:] I have ch= anged these all to be “Link Loss’ – consistent with RFC 7= 810.

 

2)      Security Section – Consider whether you want = to add additional comments in your security section about the distribution = of IGP TE information in BGP.   Even if the node inputted the dat= a into BGP-LS has the appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guid= ed only by policy set on nodes.  Is this what you want?

If so, I will forward this to the security di= rectorate for their review.

 

[Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motiva= tion for your comment.

IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since= RFC 7752. Why do you believe that the addition of the IGP TE information d= efined here requires additional security comments?

 

3)      We do not have any implementations reported. <= /o:p>

 

Please put the existence of the implementation on th= e BGP Wiki – under implementation reports.

 

[Les:] I have an= implementation report for one Cisco implementation which I will post short= ly. A second Cisco implementation is currently in progress.

If other vendors= have implementations that they wish to share I would appreciate it if they= either contacted me or updated the wiki after I post the initial report.

 

4)      An IPR statement directly from Clarence Fils on thi= s draft.  John approved the WG LC based on a related IPR statement, bu= t I fear this will not be sufficient for the current IESG.  Please as = Clarence to respond to this email with an IPR Statement.

 

[Les:] I have pi= nged Clarence on this – please expect a reply from him soon.

 

   Les=

 

The Shepherd’s report is online.  This do= cument will stay in “Waiting implementation” until John or I re= ceive a report on 2 implementations.  Please place this on the Wiki.

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares  

--_000_800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552XCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Oct 5 02:12:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A464B130EB9 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 02:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char E2 hex): X-Spam-Report: ...dback on the draft.\n\t>> [\342\200\246] > > [Some m[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T2JZExqfqMYm for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 02:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hated.at (mail.hated.at [IPv6:2001:858:2:8::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9FF8130EA4 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 02:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 089144206254.atnat0015.highway.bob.at ([89.144.206.254] helo=[192.168.43.10]) by mail.hated.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1g8LlK-0002Lk-Oy; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 10:47:07 +0200 From: Christoph Loibl Message-Id: <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6168BC63-8664-40AC-8A33-4270353975AB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 11:11:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> Cc: idr@ietf.org To: Jeffrey Haas References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 09:11:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6168BC63-8664-40AC-8A33-4270353975AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jeff, > On 04.10.2018, at 18:27, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >=20 > Christoph, >=20 > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 12:19:27PM +0200, Christoph Loibl wrote: >> Thank you very much for your detailed feedback on the draft. >> [=E2=80=A6] >=20 > [Some moralization about -bis documents.] >=20 > -bis documents are usually issued to clarify or fix broken behaviors. = While > this often means fixing easy errata, it also means the opportunity to > address things fundamentally broken in the original specificiation. I appreciate it very much, that this is moving again :-) =46rom your reply I distilled the 3 major points (to be honest those = were no surprises to me) for additional discussion (not that we should = forget about the others and comments are very welcome!): 1) What does BGP know about FS NLRI encoding =E2=80=9Copaqueness=E2=80=9D:= Most of your arguments lead back to the =E2=80=9Copaqueness=E2=80=9D = property described in RFC5575. I am not so much in favour of propagating = garbage. However, changing this behaviour (as specified in RFC5575) was = not an action-point that I (I cannot speak for the other authors) = considered very useful for better interop. I understand that currently, = some implementations do not obey the RFC5575 specification in that = particular manner. As a network operator however, I am not so much = concerned about this as long as it serves our needs from an operational = standpoint (gives us the flexibility and stability that we need - It = currently does not, but maybe not because of this particular part of the = specification), but I understand that implementation-wise this could be = a completely different story. Do we have better chances that implementations will follow the new = specification (and thus increased interoperability + stability) if we = discard the =E2=80=9Copaqueness=E2=80=9D stuff altogether? And, does = this lead to a better (less complex, better scalable, =E2=80=A6) = specification and implementation? If *yes* I am totally in favour of = going into that direction. It needs quite a lot changes (which I think, = to a large percentage, do not badly break things out there) and some = discussion: *) Reencoding =E2=80=9Cghosts=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9Cduplicates": The complexity of the NLRI may allow to encode the same thing in = multiple ways (I think you pointed that out already). Consider the = numeric-operator. For example you may have a comparison for a tcp-port = number represented as =E2=80=9C=3D3, =3D4, =3D5=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9C=3D4 = =3D5 =3D3=E2=80=9D (this can/should be fixed by having the = implementations sort within the components by the numeric-values). = However, when it comes to components based on the binary-operator I am = not sure if sorting the =E2=80=9Cbitmasks=E2=80=9D is in particular = useful (if possible at all - this needs some more thinking). So we may = still get some inconsistencies on recoding. - I will look into this next = week. BTW: I am not even sure if recoding the NLRI (even though it creates = different versions of the same thing) is a big problem at all. Since we = are propagating along a tree (ie AS-path or other intra-AS mechanisms = for routing information loop-avoidence). *) FS Extentions / Gracefully adding new component-types to the NLRI: Option 1: Treat all NLRIs with unknown components as withdraw Option 2: specify a component structure for future components that = allows unknown components to be dissected/re-encoded and propagated (if = desired). [1] Option 3-: =E2=80=A6 you name it. =20 [1] - here the URL to my email I referred quite a few times already: = http://ietf.10.n7.nabble.com/Feedback-on-5575-bis-tt568777.html#a570460 = = - please look into paragraph =3D2=3D if the mail (the extensibility) - = the rest of it has already been brought in this discussion. *) Propagation of unknown component-types: In the opaqueness case there cannot be a discussion about this because = BGP does not know anything about the components and is propagating all = the garbage. If BGP has full understanding of the NLRI - what should = happen in case of unknown NLRIs occurring in a BGP message: -> I vote = for propagating (but never use it for filtering), but in this case we = need to know how do decode unknown components (see above). 2) Interfering Traffic-Actions: The idea here was to ignore what is not clear. - One could argue that in = case of a rate-limit the lowest/highest should win (which?). Or in case = of multiple redirect the one with the lowest/highes route-target on that = particular node should win. To be honest (from an operator perspective) = I am fine with any. We take care about not announcing stupid actions to = the network anyway. I agree, that in some cases even multiple redirects = can make sense (if finally only one is performed - duplication of the = same data stream may not be what is wanted?). What do you + WG think is = appropriate. Some simple numeric sorting comes into mind (but as a = operator this may mean that you need to assign your route-targets = according your preferred FS redirection). - RFC5575 does not specify = this at all. As an operator allowing multiple redirects associated with the same flow = filter may arguable seem to be fancy feature, but I would really refrain = using that in a production environment. Using my own set of BGP = communities to convey that information and rewriting to whatever action = is needed at network areas/nodes seems much more flexible to me than = depending on a fixed algorithm (policy) that selects redirect targets on = my behalf. 3) Default behaviour in case of a flow-match but not *all* actions can = be =E2=80=9Cexecuted=E2=80=9D: Given the above example (allowing multiple redirects, multiple = rate-limits, remarkings, =E2=80=A6 maybe some other future actions yet = unknown) a match always requiring *all* actions to be executed or non (+ = being default accept) seems not the right choice. I think that, if = traffic actions are not required to be unique and we want some = sorting/preference specified (see 2) we need to come up with something = different. I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you pointed out = (see the previous Email in this thread - if I see no objections on the = list). At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects = (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where we are = heading for. Cheers Christoph --=20 Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | = http://www.nextlayer.at = --Apple-Mail=_6168BC63-8664-40AC-8A33-4270353975AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Jeff,

On 04.10.2018, at 18:27, = Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

Christoph,

On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 12:19:27PM +0200, Christoph Loibl = wrote:
Thank = you very much for your detailed feedback on the draft.
[=E2=80=A6]

[Some = moralization about -bis documents.]

-bis documents are usually issued to clarify or fix broken = behaviors.  While
this often means fixing easy errata, it also means the = opportunity to
address things fundamentally broken in the original = specificiation.

I appreciate it very much, that this is = moving again :-)

=46rom your reply I distilled the 3 major points (to be = honest those were no surprises to me) for additional discussion (not = that we should forget about the others and comments are very = welcome!):

1) = What does BGP know about FS NLRI encoding =E2=80=9Copaqueness=E2=80=9D:

Most of your = arguments lead back to the =E2=80=9Copaqueness=E2=80=9D property = described in RFC5575. I am not so much in favour of propagating garbage. = However, changing this behaviour (as specified in RFC5575) was not an = action-point that I (I cannot speak for the other authors) considered = very useful for better interop. I understand that currently, some = implementations do not obey the RFC5575 specification in that particular = manner. As a network operator however, I am not so much concerned about = this as long as it serves our needs from an operational standpoint = (gives us the flexibility and stability that we need - It currently does = not, but maybe not because of this particular part of the = specification), but I understand that implementation-wise this could be = a completely different story.

Do we have better chances that = implementations will follow the new specification (and thus increased = interoperability + stability) if we discard the =E2=80=9Copaqueness=E2=80=9D= stuff altogether? And, does this lead to a better (less complex, better = scalable, =E2=80=A6) specification and implementation? If *yes* I am = totally in favour of going into that direction. It needs quite a lot = changes (which I think, to a large percentage, do not badly break things = out there) and some discussion:

*) Reencoding = =E2=80=9Cghosts=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9Cduplicates":

The complexity of the NLRI may allow to = encode the same thing in multiple ways (I think you pointed that out = already). Consider the numeric-operator. For example you may have a = comparison for a tcp-port number represented as =E2=80=9C=3D3, =3D4, = =3D5=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9C=3D4 =3D5 =3D3=E2=80=9D (this can/should be = fixed by having the implementations sort within the components by the = numeric-values). However, when it comes to components based on the = binary-operator I am not sure if sorting the =E2=80=9Cbitmasks=E2=80=9D = is in particular useful (if possible at all - this needs some more = thinking). So we may still get some inconsistencies on recoding. - I = will look into this next week.

BTW: I am not even sure if recoding the = NLRI (even though it creates different versions of the same thing) is a = big problem at all. Since we are propagating along a tree (ie AS-path or = other intra-AS mechanisms for routing information = loop-avoidence).

*) FS Extentions / Gracefully adding new component-types to = the NLRI:

Option= 1: Treat all NLRIs with unknown components as withdraw
Option 2: specify a component structure for future components = that allows unknown components to be dissected/re-encoded and propagated = (if desired). [1]
Option 3-: =E2=80=A6 you name = it.
 
[1] - here the URL = to my email I referred quite a few times already: http://ietf.10.n7.nabble.com/Feedback-on-5575-bis-tt568777.html= #a570460 - please look into paragraph =3D2=3D if the mail (the = extensibility) - the rest of it has already been brought in this = discussion.

*) = Propagation of unknown component-types:

In the opaqueness case there cannot be = a discussion about this because BGP does not know anything about the = components and is propagating all the garbage. If BGP has full = understanding of the NLRI - what should happen in case of unknown NLRIs = occurring in a BGP message: -> I vote for propagating (but never use = it for filtering), but in this case we need to know how do decode = unknown components (see above).

2) Interfering = Traffic-Actions:

The idea here was to ignore what is not clear. - One could = argue that in case of a rate-limit the lowest/highest should win = (which?). Or in case of multiple redirect the one with the lowest/highes = route-target on that particular node should win. To be honest (from an = operator perspective) I am fine with any. We take care about not = announcing stupid actions to the network anyway. I agree, that in some = cases even multiple redirects can make sense (if finally only one is = performed - duplication of the same data stream may not be what is = wanted?). What do you + WG think is appropriate. Some simple numeric = sorting comes into mind (but as a operator this may mean that you need = to assign your route-targets according your preferred FS redirection). - = RFC5575 does not specify this at all.

As an operator allowing multiple = redirects associated with the same flow filter may arguable seem to be = fancy feature, but I would really refrain using that in a production = environment. Using my own set of BGP communities to convey that = information and rewriting to whatever action is needed at network = areas/nodes seems much more flexible to me than depending on a fixed = algorithm (policy) that selects redirect targets on my behalf.

3) Default behaviour in = case of a flow-match but not *all* actions can be = =E2=80=9Cexecuted=E2=80=9D:

Given the above example (allowing multiple redirects, = multiple rate-limits, remarkings, =E2=80=A6 maybe some other future = actions yet unknown) a match always requiring *all* actions to be = executed or non (+ being default accept) seems not the right choice. I = think that, if traffic actions are not required to be unique and we want = some sorting/preference specified (see 2)  we need to come up with = something different.

I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you = pointed out (see the previous Email in this thread -  if I see no = objections on the list). At the same time I am not changing any of the = other aspects (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where = we are heading for.

Cheers Christoph

-- 
Christoph = Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 = | http://www.nextlayer.at
= --Apple-Mail=_6168BC63-8664-40AC-8A33-4270353975AB-- From nobody Fri Oct 5 04:50:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB01130DF3 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 04:50:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ByYXOfGOH4ri for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664C7130DFA for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dresden.attlocal.net (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4FAF1E4BD; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:50:22 -0400 Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> To: Christoph Loibl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 11:50:27 -0000 Christoph, [Summary elided] You captured the critical points. Thanks. > On Oct 5, 2018, at 5:11 AM, Christoph Loibl wrote: > I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you pointed out = (see the previous Email in this thread - if I see no objections on the = list). At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects = (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where we are = heading for. This is all I would ask for. I don't expect one person's input to be = sufficient consensus to do the other changes. But the point of the IETF = consensus process is that substantive technical issues are enough = reasons for the chairs to hold up things until they're addressed. Perhaps this might be a topic for the interim. -- Jeff From nobody Fri Oct 5 06:30:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558BF130DEB; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:30:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uum25vzD51GZ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27674130DC6; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:30:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.11.155; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , Cc: References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 09:30:29 -0400 Message-ID: <007701d45caf$96612c90$c32385b0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01D45C8E.0F51FD90" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLCwtiZ0+4gZbYnoIH3A8XnFv6NZgFFJ6E3oymtRTA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181005-0, 10/05/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:30:40 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01D45C8E.0F51FD90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Les: Thank you for quickly responding to my Shepherd's report. As far as I can tell, we have the following item to discuss on the list: 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional comments in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE information in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. Is this what you want? If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review. [Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motivation for your comment. IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why do you believe that the addition of the IGP TE information defined here requires additional security comments? I would like to structure this discussion in two fashions: technical information and shepherd's requirements. As a BGP technical expert I have specific concerns regarding this information. However, as a shepherd my technical concerns are only informational and not required to be resolved prior to standardizing this document. As a shepherd, all I require is that you consider this technical information before we go forward to standardization. I have requested a security directorate review for this document regarding my concern. Why? The reason for requesting this security review now is that you do not have your implementation reports completed, and I anticipate issues with the security ADs. I can make use of this time while we wait for implementation report to get an early security review of this issue to resolve any potential issues early. Technical information: IGP information may provide information on places within a network that have high or critical load. An attacker could use this information to launch a directed attack. Shepherd requirement: Please simply consider this area and decide if you wish to change your text. Please send me email if you wish to change your text so that I can review it. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding my response. Cheerily, Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 2:49 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Sue - Thanx for the review. Responses inline. From: Susan Hares Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:29 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org Subject: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence: This document is generally in excellent shape. I note the following four things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to Alvaro Retana: 1) Editorial: Page 3 states "Unidirectional Packet Loss", but section 3.4 says "Unidirectional Link Loss TLV" Please fix this editorial error. It is a requirement for sending to the IESG for publication [Les:] I have changed these all to be "Link Loss' - consistent with RFC 7810. 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional comments in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE information in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. Is this what you want? If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review. [Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motivation for your comment. IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why do you believe that the addition of the IGP TE information defined here requires additional security comments? 3) We do not have any implementations reported. Please put the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki - under implementation reports. [Les:] I have an implementation report for one Cisco implementation which I will post shortly. A second Cisco implementation is currently in progress. If other vendors have implementations that they wish to share I would appreciate it if they either contacted me or updated the wiki after I post the initial report. 4) An IPR statement directly from Clarence Fils on this draft. John approved the WG LC based on a related IPR statement, but I fear this will not be sufficient for the current IESG. Please as Clarence to respond to this email with an IPR Statement. [Les:] I have pinged Clarence on this - please expect a reply from him soon. Les The Shepherd's report is online. This document will stay in "Waiting implementation" until John or I receive a report on 2 implementations. Please place this on the Wiki. Cheerily, Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01D45C8E.0F51FD90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

Thank you for quickly = responding to my Shepherd’s report.   As far as I can = tell, we have the following item to discuss on the list: =

 

2)      Security Section = – Consider whether you want to add additional comments in your = security section about the distribution of IGP TE information in BGP. =   Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the = appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP = infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. =  Is this what you want?

If so, I will forward this to the security = directorate for their review.

 

[Les:] I am having some trouble understanding = the motivation for your comment.

IGP TE information has been distributed via = BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why do you believe that the addition of the IGP = TE information defined here requires additional security = comments?

 

I would like to = structure this discussion in two fashions: technical information and = shepherd’s requirements.   As a BGP technical expert I = have specific concerns regarding this information.  However, as a = shepherd my technical concerns are only informational and not required = to be resolved prior to standardizing this document.  As a = shepherd, all I require is that you consider this technical information = before we go forward to standardization. 

 

I have requested a = security directorate review for this document regarding my = concern.  Why?  The reason for requesting this security review = now is that you do not have your implementation reports completed, and I = anticipate issues with the security ADs.   I can make use of = this time while we wait for implementation report to get an early = security review of this issue to resolve any potential issues early. =

 

Technical information: =  IGP information may provide information on places within a network = that have high or critical load.  An attacker could use this = information to launch a directed attack.

 

Shepherd = requirement:  Please simply consider this area and decide if you = wish to change your text.  Please send me email if you wish to = change your text so that I can review it.

 

Please let me know if = you have any questions regarding my response.

 

Cheerily, Sue =  

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 2:49 AM
To: = Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Shepherd's review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp

 

Sue –

 

Thanx for the = review.

Responses inline.

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, = 2018 12:29 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org
Subject: Shepherd's review = of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp

 

Les, = Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence:

 

This = document is generally in excellent shape.   I note the = following four things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to = Alvaro Retana:

 

1)      = Editorial:  

Page 3 = states “Unidirectional Packet Loss”, but section 3.4 says = “Unidirectional Link Loss TLV”

 

Please fix = this editorial error.  It is a requirement for sending to the IESG = for publication

 

[Les:] I have = changed these all to be “Link Loss’ – consistent with = RFC 7810.

 

2)      Security Section = – Consider whether you want to add additional comments in your = security section about the distribution of IGP TE information in BGP. =   Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has the = appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP = infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. =  Is this what you want?

If so, I will forward this to the security = directorate for their review.

 

[Les:] I am having some trouble understanding = the motivation for your comment.

IGP TE information has been distributed via = BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why do you believe that the addition of the IGP = TE information defined here requires additional security = comments?

 

3)      We do not have any = implementations reported.

 

Please put = the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki – under = implementation reports.

 

[Les:] I have an = implementation report for one Cisco implementation which I will post = shortly. A second Cisco implementation is currently in = progress.

If other vendors have implementations that they = wish to share I would appreciate it if they either contacted me or = updated the wiki after I post the initial = report.

 

4)      An IPR statement = directly from Clarence Fils on this draft.  John approved the WG LC = based on a related IPR statement, but I fear this will not be sufficient = for the current IESG.  Please as Clarence to respond to this email = with an IPR Statement.

 

[Les:] I have = pinged Clarence on this – please expect a reply from him = soon.

 

   = Les

 

The Shepherd’s report is online.  This = document will stay in “Waiting implementation” until John or = I receive a report on 2 implementations.  Please place this on the = Wiki.

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares =  

------=_NextPart_000_0078_01D45C8E.0F51FD90-- From nobody Fri Oct 5 07:13:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 281F6130E5D for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:13:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31YHtBlPNjWG for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C75F12DD85 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id m8-v6so7988987qka.12 for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:13:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BHA+tbpcADrWxFxqHv14DIsX/t4J5KCAsVWRsa6AOSU=; b=FcTrNfKmpFOJE8LqnEGQvVNkrIVhS2jemUIX826Lnog5M+XQx2EgxLrJJ55qcnQlCH 9Z4gGWPMglUv7Jug9cYjTo1eQDMj0rMWPNoi824BCmPIjNdKQ6poS5CkGAOxedqxeO06 Dpc5zqoGBsoBfM8zqOLNuFjncVHF4o2e8HlnAM0RACabVGLpQ7IGu3r7yxAqGXFnWKIW CzRYBTbYIovKVzg4ngARHr5/G2Zvqk2QeCstFiXRJB6TlLkXP2BYSDubs98brOekYajf 3Ih37CCFRFb/1cUPQAy2wABYM1oPe7Hpx9ohLPX8a4k93IrfQoFV7fc4q7xWpuNK/ZiA ZsHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BHA+tbpcADrWxFxqHv14DIsX/t4J5KCAsVWRsa6AOSU=; b=EMBQYuYpXQ7s8k2hQOIGZRFuIU2X+92kz5aYnbhchPJ6QbjHtFKPXseo49MTwD+p+C VbAZGCvcpAGosqSFc7SjWzVXD9qV368CEn9pI3MFucnwezIF6vRkZ4Yas1oCuqlyXjCE BKs4YGBxAuEYHFE/Mi5/59Rrmpg6kHWq4rtOCDys4srfKbXU6fMR5YX56KjLhsSMFf3b /A8qrG2rBCZ5AjFkGl2ncmuIp07mGGY36VpCqyUDAhB3Q9EEwoe5m+Tvh9LeFRvvXFCJ 2vE1c0hMt9kRHWxND/TzwXSPPBCxlOz0mmMFI2qp1uW2+NUcKR7wTkwjyODmIEPENCS9 ksIg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogyRQmPdoVH1GFTNcOWyjQehUfAj8o30nLglRxfW+A0dHRQxEjU vOjO0U4W6JH7qH/MSdjyQcz9ny2YNhVjaZ3BipjBQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61hbrAOZyWJK7LhiLF6OczbLkQJZRci3PRSXjMRg6NzcpbVvgE99U9lzoypDmKLI2bLGxox48x+hsoOj7hE1Vg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:694:: with SMTP id 142-v6mr8683852qkg.189.1538748799531; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 07:13:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <007701d45caf$96612c90$c32385b0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <007701d45caf$96612c90$c32385b0$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:13:04 +0200 Message-ID: To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000984d2605777bdfe0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 14:13:29 -0000 --000000000000984d2605777bdfe0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Sue, Technical information: IGP information may provide information on places > within a network that have high or critical load. An attacker could use > this information to launch a directed attack. > Seems like we have been through this topic already, but it seems to come back :) Your point is very valid however it applies to base RFC7752 not to few add-on extensions as proposed here by Les at other co-authors. All they are doing here are just defining and loading few additional bags on the plane which do not make it any more vulnerable. Entire plane which seems to be already in operation is a problem .. During time of standardization the promise has been made that it will operate separate from any other BGP traffic even including different and separate infrastructure (ex. separate RRs). Well the reality is that this is not something anyone can control and in practice this promise is not met. So IMO we should not put any obstacles into draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp and allow it to progress. But if you have solid evidence then base RFC7752 should undergo real security review and if decided so should be recalled or transport of it should be clearly decoupled from port 179. As example as a trivial start the following draft could be used to decouple it from routing BGP: https://goo.gl/FC9qda If we want to go further that that we could also move transport of RFC7752 to a message bus (ZMQ, RabbitMQ, NATS or Kafka etc ...to just name a few options). I am sure there would be many more "stuff" in current BGP which would gladly jump over to such new transport model - as example even number of SAFIs could use customized RT based distribution instead of struggling with pushing RTC like filters around to get tiny subset of entire load carried in specific SAFIs. Sure it will not happen overnight - but until we start it will never happen. Thx, Robert. --000000000000984d2605777bdfe0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,=

Technical information: =C2=A0IGP information may provide information on p= laces within a network that have high or critical load.=C2=A0 An attacker c= ould use this information to launch a directed attack.


Seems like we have been through this top= ic already, but it seems to come back :)=C2=A0

You= r point is very valid however it applies to base=C2=A0RFC7752 not to few ad= d-on extensions as proposed here by Les at other co-authors.=C2=A0

All they are doing here are just defining and loading few = additional bags on the plane which do not make it any more vulnerable. Enti= re plane which seems to be already in operation is a problem ..=C2=A0
=

During time of standardization the promise has been mad= e that it will operate separate from any other BGP traffic even including d= ifferent and separate infrastructure (ex. separate RRs). Well the reality i= s that this is not something anyone can control and in practice this promis= e is not met.=C2=A0

So IMO we should not put any o= bstacles into=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp and allow it to progress.=C2=A0=

But if you have solid evidence then base RFC7752 = should undergo real security review and if decided so should be recalled or= transport of it should be clearly decoupled from port 179.=C2=A0

As example as a trivial start the following draft could be = used to decouple it from routing BGP:=C2=A0https://goo.gl/FC9qda=C2=A0

If we want to go= further that that we could also move transport of RFC7752 to a message bus= (ZMQ, RabbitMQ, NATS or Kafka etc ...to just name a few options). I am sur= e there would be many more "stuff" in current BGP which would gla= dly jump over to such new transport model - as example even number of SAFIs= could use customized RT based distribution instead of struggling with push= ing RTC like filters around to get tiny subset of entire load carried in sp= ecific SAFIs. Sure it will not happen overnight - but until we start it wil= l never happen.

Thx,
Robert.
<= /div>
--000000000000984d2605777bdfe0-- From nobody Fri Oct 5 07:59:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BED212F1AB; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:59:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dELrFuZiy0wR; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF8E0130DE4; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.230.11.155; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Robert Raszuk'" Cc: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , , References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <007701d45caf$96612c90$c32385b0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 10:59:05 -0400 Message-ID: <00d601d45cbb$f68ca840$e3a5f8c0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D45C9A.6F7B0840" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLCwtiZ0+4gZbYnoIH3A8XnFv6NZgFFJ6E3ASvk/esBtDY0dqMSxyog Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181005-0, 10/05/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 14:59:15 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D45C9A.6F7B0840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert:=20 =20 I agree that=20 =20 =E2=80=9CSo IMO we should not put any obstacles into = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp and allow it to progress=E2=80=9D.=20 =20 I also agree we should consider the problem at large.=20 =20 Part of the progression, is to ask the question of the security = directorate before we go to actual AD and IESG review. Then the = shepherd, authors, and security directorate have been considered it. = Hopefully, this early consideration will allow the security ADs quickly = review prior to publication. =20 =20 Susan Hares=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]=20 Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:13 AM To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp =20 Hi Sue, =20 Technical information: IGP information may provide information on = places within a network that have high or critical load. An attacker = could use this information to launch a directed attack. =20 Seems like we have been through this topic already, but it seems to come = back :)=20 =20 Your point is very valid however it applies to base RFC7752 not to few = add-on extensions as proposed here by Les at other co-authors.=20 =20 All they are doing here are just defining and loading few additional = bags on the plane which do not make it any more vulnerable. Entire plane = which seems to be already in operation is a problem ..=20 =20 During time of standardization the promise has been made that it will = operate separate from any other BGP traffic even including different and = separate infrastructure (ex. separate RRs). Well the reality is that = this is not something anyone can control and in practice this promise is = not met.=20 =20 So IMO we should not put any obstacles into draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp and = allow it to progress.=20 =20 But if you have solid evidence then base RFC7752 should undergo real = security review and if decided so should be recalled or transport of it = should be clearly decoupled from port 179.=20 =20 As example as a trivial start the following draft could be used to = decouple it from routing BGP: https://goo.gl/FC9qda=20 =20 If we want to go further that that we could also move transport of = RFC7752 to a message bus (ZMQ, RabbitMQ, NATS or Kafka etc ...to just = name a few options). I am sure there would be many more "stuff" in = current BGP which would gladly jump over to such new transport model - = as example even number of SAFIs could use customized RT based = distribution instead of struggling with pushing RTC like filters around = to get tiny subset of entire load carried in specific SAFIs. Sure it = will not happen overnight - but until we start it will never happen. =20 Thx, Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D45C9A.6F7B0840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert:

 

I agree that

 

=E2=80=9CSo IMO we should not put any obstacles = into draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp and allow it to progress=E2=80=9D. =

 

I also agree we should consider the problem at large. =

 

Part of the progression, is to ask the question of the security = directorate before we go to actual AD and IESG review. Then the = shepherd, authors, and security directorate have been considered = it.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hopefully, this early consideration will allow the = security ADs quickly review prior to publication.=C2=A0 =

 

Susan Hares

 

 

 

From:= = Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]
Sent: Friday, = October 5, 2018 10:13 AM
To: shares@ndzh.com
Cc: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg); idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp

 

Hi Sue,

 

Technical information:  IGP information may = provide information on places within a network that have high or = critical load.  An attacker could use this information to launch a = directed attack.

 

Seems like we have been through this topic already, = but it seems to come back :) 

 

Your point is very valid however it applies to = base RFC7752 not to few add-on extensions as proposed here by Les = at other co-authors. 

 

All they are doing here are just defining and loading = few additional bags on the plane which do not make it any more = vulnerable. Entire plane which seems to be already in operation is a = problem .. 

 

During time of standardization the promise has been = made that it will operate separate from any other BGP traffic even = including different and separate infrastructure (ex. separate RRs). Well = the reality is that this is not something anyone can control and in = practice this promise is not met. 

 

So IMO we should not put any obstacles = into draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp and allow it to = progress. 

 

But if you have solid evidence then base RFC7752 = should undergo real security review and if decided so should be recalled = or transport of it should be clearly decoupled from port = 179. 

 

As example as a trivial start the following draft = could be used to decouple it from routing BGP: https://goo.gl/FC9qda =

 

If we want to go further that that we could also move = transport of RFC7752 to a message bus (ZMQ, RabbitMQ, NATS or Kafka etc = ...to just name a few options). I am sure there would be many more = "stuff" in current BGP which would gladly jump over to such = new transport model - as example even number of SAFIs could use = customized RT based distribution instead of struggling with pushing RTC = like filters around to get tiny subset of entire load carried in = specific SAFIs. Sure it will not happen overnight - but until we start = it will never happen.

 

Thx,
Robert.

<= /div>
------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D45C9A.6F7B0840-- From nobody Sat Oct 6 11:55:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7397130E11; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153885213271.19275.492393419783636274@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 11:55:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:55:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering Performance Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Qin Wu Jeff Tantsura Clarence Filsfils Filename : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-10-06 Abstract: This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Oct 6 12:07:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DF03130E17; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 12:07:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NA3QRSU6XQZJ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 12:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3FEF130E0C; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 12:07:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3031; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1538852839; x=1540062439; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=w+LnGJQk6nioIp/GjjaI4Xkdd9XeT614H2jIcVyM1Ho=; b=KEJwkZNbtuYIcYEc/4ZWgrvi6fRf56EkkKuazG13e0Zt47C0N8OSB+lx +tEd54nwIFq2SD6mqBf7Vt/6qdRbtlFutOEpY7wvkvdeVIQvDz5ZS9B/L LpEBLoiAGk2w3DdQ0jgntiI4RsO9MzZREXXWOTbQubewhdSbIGFu6NhcH k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AGAADsBrlb/5tdJa1iGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUQQBAQEBAQsBggWBZSgKi3+MKoINeJVxFIFmCwEBhGw?= =?us-ascii?q?ChC8hNA0NAQMBAQIBAQJtKIU5AQEBAQM6PwwEAgEIDgMEAQEfEDIdCAEBBAE?= =?us-ascii?q?NBQiFG6VVig2LOReBQT+BEoJdNYRLARIBhXcCnW4JApA/H4FOhGWJRJVLAhE?= =?us-ascii?q?UgSUdOGRxcBWDJ5BVb4p/gR+BHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,349,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="462551714" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Oct 2018 19:07:18 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w96J7IXM030445 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Oct 2018 19:07:18 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 14:07:17 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 14:07:17 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Thread-Index: AdRcF3khifKLKTceSAqH5NWF+nXt6AAXwnvQAExG+MA= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 19:07:17 +0000 Message-ID: <8fba4405b5224a188e23741ee8b12dc1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.24.222] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 19:07:22 -0000 I have uploaded V12 of the document which addresses the Editorial issue (#1= below). I have also uploaded an implementation report - currently specifying the on= e known implementation. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 11:49 PM > To: Susan Hares ; idr@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp >=20 > Sue - >=20 > Thanx for the review. > Responses inline. >=20 > From: Susan Hares > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:29 PM > To: idr@ietf.org > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm- > bgp@ietf.org > Subject: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp >=20 > Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence: >=20 > This document is generally in excellent shape. I note the following fou= r > things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to Alvaro Retana: >=20 >=20 > 1) Editorial: > Page 3 states "Unidirectional Packet Loss", but section 3.4 says > "Unidirectional Link Loss TLV" >=20 > Please fix this editorial error. It is a requirement for sending to the = IESG for > publication >=20 > [Les:] I have changed these all to be "Link Loss' - consistent with RFC 7= 810. >=20 >=20 > 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional > comments in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE > information in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has = the > appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP > infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. Is = this > what you want? >=20 > If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review. >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motivation for your > comment. >=20 > IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why do > you believe that the addition of the IGP TE information defined here requ= ires > additional security comments? >=20 >=20 >=20 > 3) We do not have any implementations reported. >=20 > Please put the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki - under > implementation reports. >=20 > [Les:] I have an implementation report for one Cisco implementation which= I > will post shortly. A second Cisco implementation is currently in progress= . > If other vendors have implementations that they wish to share I would > appreciate it if they either contacted me or updated the wiki after I pos= t the > initial report. >=20 >=20 > 4) An IPR statement directly from Clarence Fils on this draft. John > approved the WG LC based on a related IPR statement, but I fear this will= not > be sufficient for the current IESG. Please as Clarence to respond to thi= s email > with an IPR Statement. >=20 > [Les:] I have pinged Clarence on this - please expect a reply from him so= on From nobody Sun Oct 7 22:04:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE80130E4C; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.957 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.957 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.456, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4T9_cdpfgC8M; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F011128B14; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:04:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2915; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1538975079; x=1540184679; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=L8zb2D5B+9J7UQeRf1XpJVcR25n9RzIP5H+xzkBoShA=; b=fVie81tPw3jbHJu14dfwa/A7qePox6T67zXm4Y24QYtrspOm1dEP0+WG Z6eYB+5Y2AkE+VKDSTgDoqTItLh6rBTgtDhy6tkoQkbmCkiHqgBQFoKoO gNi4uRLrYmAEaSDBJsHB0PtE5Z2Ra0fAvUR+YMUYY8FofeHeczDw7iqqM M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,355,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="182848882" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Oct 2018 05:04:29 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9854Ssu004089 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Oct 2018 05:04:29 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 00:04:28 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 00:04:28 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Thread-Index: AdRcF3khifKLKTceSAqH5NWF+nXt6AAXwnvQAExG+MAARy1tQA== Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 05:04:28 +0000 Message-ID: <59137b660bc4469bb3f412e4839946f4@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <8fba4405b5224a188e23741ee8b12dc1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8fba4405b5224a188e23741ee8b12dc1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.24.222] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 05:04:42 -0000 Implementation report has been updated to show two implementations. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 12:07 PM > To: Susan Hares ; idr@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp >=20 > I have uploaded V12 of the document which addresses the Editorial issue (= #1 > below). >=20 > I have also uploaded an implementation report - currently specifying the = one > known implementation. >=20 > Les >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 11:49 PM > > To: Susan Hares ; idr@ietf.org > > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp > > > > Sue - > > > > Thanx for the review. > > Responses inline. > > > > From: Susan Hares > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:29 PM > > To: idr@ietf.org > > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; > > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm- bgp@ietf.org > > Subject: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp > > > > Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence: > > > > This document is generally in excellent shape. I note the following f= our > > things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to Alvaro Retana: > > > > > > 1) Editorial: > > Page 3 states "Unidirectional Packet Loss", but section 3.4 says > > "Unidirectional Link Loss TLV" > > > > Please fix this editorial error. It is a requirement for sending to > > the IESG for publication > > > > [Les:] I have changed these all to be "Link Loss' - consistent with RFC= 7810. > > > > > > 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional > > comments in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE > > information in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS ha= s > the > > appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP > > infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. > > Is this what you want? > > > > If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review= . > > > > > > > > [Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motivation for your > > comment. > > > > IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since RFC 7752. Why > > do you believe that the addition of the IGP TE information defined > > here requires additional security comments? > > > > > > > > 3) We do not have any implementations reported. > > > > Please put the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki - under > > implementation reports. > > > > [Les:] I have an implementation report for one Cisco implementation > > which I will post shortly. A second Cisco implementation is currently i= n > progress From nobody Sun Oct 7 22:43:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A323129C6B; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:43:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xreh-LcNuPhE; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4C5D128CFD; 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Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:29:30 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:29:17 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaACr2yJQ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:29:16 +0000 Message-ID: <19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.202.166] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 06:29:37 -0000 --_000_19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, I support WG adoption. Thanks, Shunwan From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,

 

I support WG adoption.=

 

Thanks,

Shunwan

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-to= pology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-= inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).  A quick link = to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft= -wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to = the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks. = ;

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair

--_000_19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78NKGEML515MBXchi_-- From nobody Sun Oct 7 23:42:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD15012008A; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:42:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MccN4nPNa8K7; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5032212D7F8; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C143FAD02364F; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:42:17 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:42:18 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.63]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:42:11 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Zhuangshunwan , Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaACr2yJQAAENN1A= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:42:10 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4A857B@dggemm512-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> <19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC484D78@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4A857Bdggemm512mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 06:42:24 -0000 --_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4A857Bdggemm512mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes/Support. Best Regards, Zhenbin(Robin) From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4A857Bdggemm512mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes/Support.

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin(Robin)

 

 

 

&n= bsp;

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-to= pology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)= .  A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/<= /span>

 

Please comment on whether you f= eel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational managem= ent of networks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair =

--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4A857Bdggemm512mbschi_-- From nobody Sun Oct 7 23:45:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F589130DDB; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:44:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1qP5B6-C4-74; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D2F712D7F8; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 23:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 67516307AD2C8; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:44:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM422-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.39) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:44:54 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM509-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.9.29]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:44:51 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaACs9LCw Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 06:44:51 +0000 Message-ID: <06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD2DBB2E@dggemm509-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.219.232] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD2DBB2Edggemm509mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 06:45:00 -0000 --_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD2DBB2Edggemm509mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support WG adoption. Best Regards, Zhibo Hu From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD2DBB2Edggemm509mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I suppo= rt WG adoption.

 

Best Regards,

Zhibo Hu

 

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-to= pology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)= .  A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/<= /span>

 

Please comment on whether you f= eel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational managem= ent of networks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair =

--_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAD2DBB2Edggemm509mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Oct 8 03:00:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 181C912F1A5 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 03:00:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AAmJH5A9UjQw for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 03:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA8431286E3 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 03:00:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=570; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1538992836; x=1540202436; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PRmWHeI08FJEJ5+DkTyXd0ivF9Lu0OpJhLYLUUtRh1M=; b=ldyS8Vefh4OXAcCFSPNtr3ZPg37/6xX4SsIniGS+tNT098ICePGkK72L 3pIswHelijnnj4szByTgrC5jj7S1GAKFPZXPvte9o6w9z2C4DZqY77f8i dlox8gxZHImnltls9Zp7VozHB5bnk/GuNrR1EYL83dd6oUV6kvyyQOA3Q M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,356,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="7078901" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Oct 2018 10:00:34 +0000 Received: from [10.60.210.99] (ams-cfilsfil-8812.cisco.com [10.60.210.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w98A0XMA019341 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Oct 2018 10:00:33 GMT To: John Scudder , IDR References: <46B8CA55-6A36-4751-9395-967AD348BECD@juniper.net> From: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 12:00:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <46B8CA55-6A36-4751-9395-967AD348BECD@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: cfilsfil X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.210.99, ams-cfilsfil-8812.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WGLC for draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-10 (to end April 5, 2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:00:39 -0000 I am not aware of any relevant IPR. Cheers, Clarence On 21/03/2018 10:51, John Scudder wrote: > Hi All, > > The authors have requested a working group last call for draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-10. Please send your comments to the list before Thursday April 5. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ > > Authors, please reply indicating if you're aware of any relevant IPR. Thanks. > > --John > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > From nobody Mon Oct 8 04:46:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF3B130DCB; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 04:46:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ye_oI0CGCuvr; 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07:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id ED4B01FC7D4B5; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 15:34:28 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 15:34:29 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 22:34:24 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaAC8O2dQ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:34:24 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.56.82] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFdHIEFkb3B0aW9uIGNhbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0?= =?gb2312?b?LXdhbmctaWRyLWJncGxzLWludGVyLWFzLXRvcG9sb2d5LWV4dC0wMi50eHQg?= =?gb2312?b?KDEwLzQvMjAxOCB0byAxMC8xOC8yMDE4KQ==?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 14:34:36 -0000 --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Hi,

 

This document describes valid use cases of building inter-domain = topology using  BGP-LS. Thus I support the adoption.

 

And a few comment about section 4:

 

The Link NLRI of BGP-LS includes the local node descriptors and r= emote node descriptors, in which the AS number TLV can be carried. Can this= be used to specify the remote AS information? If so, the new remote AS number TLV may not be necessary.

 

Please clarify whether the remote ASBR-ID is similar to one of th= e following TLVs:

a.       BGP router-ID as defined in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-= routing-epe,

b.       IGP router-ID as defined in node descriptor sub-TLVs in R= FC 7752,

c.       IPv4/IPv6 Router-ID as defined in Link attribute TLVs of = RFC 7752.

 

It would be good if some existing TLVs can be reused to fulfill t= he use cases described.

 

Best regards,

Jie

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:= Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Susan Hares
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:= 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.= txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)= .  A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/<= /span>

 

Please comment on whether you f= eel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational managem= ent of networks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair =

--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369NKGEML515MBXchi_-- From nobody Mon Oct 8 19:04:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86CD61310F4; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 19:04:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLcuT3jQNUem; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (m88102.mail.qiye.163.com [106.2.88.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D571310DC; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 19:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id B34BF4240A; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:04:06 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , "'Susan Hares'" , Cc: References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:04:06 +0800 Message-ID: <006c01d45f74$5c402620$14c07260$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006D_01D45FB7.6A636620" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaAC8O2dQABcpOdA= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6NjI6Gjo5SzotTyEULk0RLyMqMSIwCwlVSlVKTkhC S05LTU5JTkNKVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQUlKT01NN1dZEgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a6656912d4f9865kuuub34bf4240a Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICBXRyBBZG9wdGlvbiBjYWxsIGZv?= =?gb2312?b?ciBkcmFmdC13YW5nLWlkci1iZ3Bscy1pbnRlci1hcy10b3BvbG9neS1leHQt?= =?gb2312?b?MDIudHh0ICgxMC80LzIwMTggdG8gMTAvMTgvMjAxOCk=?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 02:04:20 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01D45FB7.6A636620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jie: =20 Thanks for your supports and comments. Let=A1=AFs explain to you for our considerations for your concern = points. 1) For Non-TE scenario, the redistributed link information will be carried in =A1=B0prefix descriptor=A1=B1, as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02= #se ction-3.1, then no link related TLV will be carried. 2) For TE scenario, the inter-as link TLV should be treated different = from the ordinary link TLV, as stated in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5392#section-3.2.1 =A1=B0Given that OSPF = is an IGP and should only be utilized between routers in the same routing = domain, the OSPF specific Link ID and Neighbor ID sub-TLVs are not applicable to inter-AS links. =A1=B0, this is the same reason that we define the new = TLV within BGP-LS. =20 The format of these TLVs can be aligned, but the type ID should be different. For BGP-LS protocol, they should be newly assigned. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C28=C8=D5 22:34 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Hi,=20 =20 This document describes valid use cases of building inter-domain = topology using BGP-LS. Thus I support the adoption.=20 =20 And a few comment about section 4:=20 =20 The Link NLRI of BGP-LS includes the local node descriptors and remote = node descriptors, in which the AS number TLV can be carried. Can this be used = to specify the remote AS information? If so, the new remote AS number TLV = may not be necessary.=20 =20 =20 Please clarify whether the remote ASBR-ID is similar to one of the = following TLVs:=20 a. BGP router-ID as defined in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe,=20 b. IGP router-ID as defined in node descriptor sub-TLVs in RFC = 7752,=20 c. IPv4/IPv6 Router-ID as defined in Link attribute TLVs of RFC = 7752.=20 =20 It would be good if some existing TLVs can be reused to fulfill the use cases described.=20 =20 Best regards, Jie =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Susan = Hares =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Greetings:=20 =20 This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).. A quick link to the draft is at:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-e= xt/ =20 Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of = drafts will help operational management of networks. =20 =20 Susan Hares =20 IDR co-chair=20 ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01D45FB7.6A636620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Jie:

 

Thanks for your supports and = comments.

Let=A1=AFs explain to you for = our considerations for your concern points.

1)       = For Non-TE scenario, the = redistributed link information will be carried in =A1=B0prefix = descriptor=A1=B1, as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-in= ter-as-topology-ext-02#section-3.1, then no link related TLV will be = carried.

2)  For TE scenario, the inter-as link TLV should be treated different =
from the ordinary link TLV, as stated in https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5392#section-3.2.1  =A1=B0Given that OSPF is =
an IGP and should only be utilized between routers in the same routing =
domain, the OSPF specific Link ID and Neighbor ID sub-TLVs are not =
applicable to inter-AS links. =A1=B0, this is the same reason that we define the new TLV within =
BGP-LS.
 
The format of these TLVs can be aligned, but the type ID should be = different. For BGP-LS protocol, they should be newly = assigned.
 

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Dongjie (Jimmy) = [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C28=C8=D5 22:34
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares; = idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: [Idr] = =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Hi,

 

This document describes valid = use cases of building inter-domain topology using  BGP-LS. Thus I = support the adoption.

 

And a few comment about section = 4:

 

The Link NLRI of BGP-LS = includes the local node descriptors and remote node descriptors, in = which the AS number TLV can be carried. Can this be used to specify the = remote AS information? If so, the new remote AS number TLV may not be = necessary.

 

 

Please clarify whether the = remote ASBR-ID is similar to one of the following TLVs: =

a.       = BGP = router-ID as defined in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, =

b.       = IGP = router-ID as defined in node descriptor sub-TLVs in RFC 7752, =

c.       = IPv4/IPv6 Router-ID as defined = in Link attribute TLVs of RFC 7752.

 

It would be good if some = existing TLVs can be reused to fulfill the use cases described. =

 

Best = regards,

Jie

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE= =C8=CB: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED= Susan = Hares
=B7=A2=CB=CD= =CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: draft= -wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: [Idr] WG Adoption = call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)..  A quick link to the draft is at: =

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-= as-topology-ext/

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the = BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks.  =

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair =

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes/Support ________________________________ li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com From: Susan Hares Date: 2018-10-05 04:12 To: idr@ietf.org CC: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_TYAPR06MB2176424030DA6CA5AAB9D53AFCE70TYAPR06MB2176apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <91DAAAAE70E9B641AF2A0DB2EAD424E6@apcprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes/Support

li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
 
Date: 2018-10-05 04:12
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-i= nter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).  A quick link to the draft is at:

https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/=

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair

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Hi Aijun,

 

I support the requirement for this draft to cover the I= nter-AS links advertisement via BGP-LS which was left out by RFC 7752 (https://tools.ietf.= org/html/rfc7752#section-3.5).

 

However, I have the following suggestions and comments.=

 

1)     The Inter-AS TE scenario is more straight forwa= rd and well-defined be covered by this draft. But I would propose that such= a link be encoded by re-using existing TLVs as also suggested by Jie. The details can be worked out, if you agree= on the premise of re-use.

2)     For the Inter-AS =A1=B0Native IP=A1=B1 scenario= , the draft proposes to use the Prefix NLRI corresponding to the redistribu= ted Inter-AS link subnet to derive (or construct) the Inter-AS link topology. I find this problematic due to follows:

a.      Are all redistributed/external routes now going= to get assumed to be Inter-AS links? This generalization is not correct.

b.      I do not understand how the inter-AS link is go= ing to get =A1=B0derived=A1=B1 from this prefix =A8C it is just the prefix = subnet without any information of the remote node AS or link identifier information (which is what we have in case (1) above= as well as when using BGP EPE).

 

In summary, I support the adoption for the signalling f= or Inter-AS TE links (with suggestion to re-use existing TLVs). But I don= =A1=AFt support the use-case/scenario (2) which is being described as it would break the existing BGP-LS functionality for= signalling of external/redistribute prefixes by implying that they are all= Inter-AS links.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: 09 October 2018 07:34
To: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' <jie.dong@huawei.com>; 'Susan Hares' <= ;shares@ndzh.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] =B4= =F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-top= ology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Hi, J= ie:

=  

Thank= s for your supports and comments.

Let= =A1=AFs explain to you for our considerations for your concern points.=

1)      For Non-TE scenario, the redistributed link information will be carried = in =A1=B0prefix descriptor=A1=B1, as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02#s= ection-3.1, then no link related TLV will be carried.= 

2)   For TE s=
cenario, the inter-as link TLV should be treated different from the ordinar=
y link TLV, as stated in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5392#section-3.2.1  =A1=
=B0Given that OSPF is a=
n IGP and should only be utilized between routers in the same routing domai=
n, the OSPF specific Link ID and Neighbor ID sub-TLVs are not applicable to=
 inter-AS links. =A1=B0, this is the same reason that=
 we define the new TLV within BGP-LS.
 
The format of these TLVs can be aligned, but the type I=
D should be different. For BGP-LS protocol, they should be newly assigned.<=
o:p>
 

=  

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang<= /span>

Network R&D and Op= eration Support Department

China Telecom Corporat= ion Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

=  

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Dongjie (Jimmy) [ma= ilto:jie.dong@huawei.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C28=C8=D5 22:34
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-to= pology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Hi, <= o:p>

=  

This = document describes valid use cases of building inter-domain topology using =  BGP-LS. Thus I support the adoption.

=  

And a= few comment about section 4:

=  

The L= ink NLRI of BGP-LS includes the local node descriptors and remote node desc= riptors, in which the AS number TLV can be carried. Can this be used to spe= cify the remote AS information? If so, the new remote AS number TLV may not be necessary.

=  

=  

Pleas= e clarify whether the remote ASBR-ID is similar to one of the following TLV= s:

a.BGP router-ID as defi= ned in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe,

b.IGP router-ID as defi= ned in node descriptor sub-TLVs in RFC 7752,

c.IPv4/IPv6 Router-ID a= s defined in Link attribute TLVs of RFC 7752.

=  

It wo= uld be good if some existing TLVs can be reused to fulfill the use cases de= scribed.

=  

Best = regards,

Jie

=  

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Susan Hares
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] WG Adoption call for= draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018= )

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-= inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)..  A quick link= to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft= -wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to = the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks. = ;

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair

--_000_2eceb74fe53b432da237e2d13200fcb0XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 06:38:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EF9131320 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 06:38:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pye0CynOIKCq for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hated.at (mail.hated.at [IPv6:2001:858:2:8::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F97213131B for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 06:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [2a01:190:1702:0:21f9:79eb:f8e3:f19] by mail.hated.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1g9rpi-0003qF-3h; Tue, 09 Oct 2018 15:13:54 +0200 From: Christoph Loibl Message-Id: <30E23B18-092D-4C21-A2D4-363C69B73D0F@tix.at> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_76DC2A51-D241-485B-A3B7-049CE79F52DF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 15:38:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> Cc: idr@ietf.org To: Jeffrey Haas References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 13:38:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_76DC2A51-D241-485B-A3B7-049CE79F52DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jeff, IDR, I am trying to write a summary on FS propagation in a non-opaque way = (=3DBGP fully understanding of the NLRI + regenerating the byte-string) = - Jeff: as you pointed out this is already the case with some of the = implementations. I just want to better understand what we need to think = of in case we want to go into that direction. (Questions at the end) In one of my last emails I wrote that I think re-encoding of the FS NLRI = may be dangerous because it may result in a different NLRIs getting = created and propagated (see below). For example a simple tcp-port filter = (port 137,138) can be encoded as:=20 port =3D=3D 137 || port =3D=3D 138 port =3D=3D 138 || port =3D=3D 137 port >=3D 137 && port <=3D 138 =E2=80=A6 The NLRI itself can express the same filter in multiple ways (I doubt, = that we can change the specification to have a 1:1 mapping filter to = NLRI without throwing the hole thing away - which I think is not at all = desirable).=20 =09 > On 04.10.2018, at 18:27, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >=20 >> CL: NLRI re-en-coding is not acceptable since it introduces a hole = lot of problems. Opaqueness of the NLRI to BGP is somehow vital to avoid = such situations altogether. See also the comment above [1]. >=20 > See again prior comments. Many implementations build data structurres = from > received NLRI. If you understand it, you may regenerate it in = canonical > order. I agree. Actually, I think that some of the behaviour that we observed = in the lab years ago can be explained very well by this. My questions here:=20 ------------------------ *) If the NLRI itself can express the same filter in multiple ways (see = above). May regenerating the NLRI from a data structure produce a = different NLRI byte-string (=E2=80=9Cghost=E2=80=9D)? (I would say yes? - potentially)=20 *) What are the implications if =E2=80=9Cghost=E2=80=9D NLRIs get = propagated? The propagation of the NLRI follows a tree from neighbor to neighbor = (loops getting resolved by As-path, cluster-lists, =E2=80=A6 =3D = independently from the NLRI itself) =E2=80=A6 withdraw follows the same = mechanisms. However BGP-speakers may receive different byte-string = versions of the same NLRI and maybe even treat both as two different = routes (maybe propagating 2 NLRIs instead of one)? Is this something, = that can also happen with other NLRIs? Is this dangerous? Cheers Christoph --=20 Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at --Apple-Mail=_76DC2A51-D241-485B-A3B7-049CE79F52DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Jeff, IDR,

I am = trying to write a summary on FS propagation in a non-opaque way (=3DBGP = fully understanding of the NLRI + regenerating the byte-string) - Jeff: = as you pointed out this is already the case with some of the = implementations. I just want to better understand what we need to think = of in case we want to go into that direction. (Questions at the = end)

In one of my last emails I wrote that I = think re-encoding of the FS NLRI may be dangerous because it may result = in a different NLRIs getting created and propagated (see below). For = example a simple tcp-port filter (port 137,138) can be encoded = as: 

port =3D=3D 137 || port =3D=3D 138
port =3D=3D 138 || = port =3D=3D 137
port >=3D 137 && port <=3D = 138
=E2=80=A6

The = NLRI itself can express the same filter in multiple ways (I doubt, that = we can change the specification to have a 1:1 mapping filter to NLRI = without throwing the hole thing away - which I think is not at all = desirable). 
On 04.10.2018, at 18:27, = Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

CL: = NLRI re-en-coding is not acceptable since it introduces a hole lot of = problems. Opaqueness of the NLRI to BGP is somehow vital to avoid such = situations altogether. See also the comment above [1].

See again prior comments.  Many implementations build = data structurres from
received NLRI.  If you understand it, you may regenerate = it in canonical
order.

I agree. Actually, I = think that some of the behaviour that we observed in the lab years ago = can be explained very well by this.

My questions here: 
------------------------

*) If the NLRI itself can express the = same filter in multiple ways (see above). May regenerating the NLRI from = a data structure produce a different NLRI byte-string = (=E2=80=9Cghost=E2=80=9D)?

(I would say yes? - potentially) 
*) What are the implications if = =E2=80=9Cghost=E2=80=9D NLRIs get propagated?

The propagation of the NLRI follows a = tree from neighbor to neighbor (loops getting resolved by As-path, = cluster-lists, =E2=80=A6 =3D independently from the NLRI itself) =E2=80=A6= withdraw follows the same mechanisms. However BGP-speakers may receive = different byte-string versions of the same NLRI and maybe even treat = both as two different routes (maybe propagating 2 NLRIs instead of one)? = Is this something, that can also happen with other NLRIs? Is this = dangerous?

Cheers Christoph

-- 
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | = PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at

= --Apple-Mail=_76DC2A51-D241-485B-A3B7-049CE79F52DF-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 07:35:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D06E130FCF for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 07:35:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iGoo-CiHPB3o for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 07:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD90131327 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 07:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8CA151E449; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:34:10 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Christoph Loibl Cc: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181009143410.GA14481@pfrc.org> References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> <30E23B18-092D-4C21-A2D4-363C69B73D0F@tix.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <30E23B18-092D-4C21-A2D4-363C69B73D0F@tix.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 14:35:10 -0000 Christoph, On Tue, Oct 09, 2018 at 03:38:33PM +0200, Christoph Loibl wrote: > I am trying to write a summary on FS propagation in a non-opaque way (=BGP > fully understanding of the NLRI + regenerating the byte-string) - Jeff: as > you pointed out this is already the case with some of the implementations. I actually don't know what other implementations do. If you do, that's a data point. What I said is that a -bis is a fine time to update problematic pieces of documents based on actual deployed implementations. > In one of my last emails I wrote that I think re-encoding of the FS NLRI > may be dangerous because it may result in a different NLRIs getting > created and propagated (see below). For example a simple tcp-port filter > (port 137,138) can be encoded as: > > port == 137 || port == 138 > port == 138 || port == 137 > port >= 137 && port <= 138 And matter of fact, our implementation will likely re-encode some of these cases. This is because port range sets are canonicalized into our internal data structures in a way that is functionally equivalent but optimal for our firewall implementation. And since we generate our NLRI from our internal data structures, what we propogate will be different in some cases than what we receive. This is not a problem. NLRI exchange is a local matter between two BGP peers. The only thing that is important is that you withdraw what you send and that these are in agreement. [...] > I agree. Actually, I think that some of the behaviour that we observed in > the lab years ago can be explained very well by this. > > My questions here: > ------------------------ > > *) If the NLRI itself can express the same filter in multiple ways (see > above). May regenerating the NLRI from a data structure produce a > different NLRI byte-string (“ghostâ€)? > > (I would say yes? - potentially) Absolutely. > *) What are the implications if “ghost†NLRIs get propagated? > > The propagation of the NLRI follows a tree from neighbor to neighbor > (loops getting resolved by As-path, cluster-lists, … = independently from > the NLRI itself) … withdraw follows the same mechanisms. However > BGP-speakers may receive different byte-string versions of the same NLRI > and maybe even treat both as two different routes (maybe propagating 2 > NLRIs instead of one)? Is this something, that can also happen with other > NLRIs? Is this dangerous? Given a network distributes sets of flowspec NLRI and implementations mutate the NLRI in a way that is functionally equivalent. Given a downstream router that receives the same flowspec filter that has been mutated in different ways in the upstream path. Then a downstream router may receive the same flowspec programming in more than one format and thus can't declare them to be duplicates for route selection purposes. The result of this would be multiple rules installed, functionally equivalent, with different but likely compatible precedence. It's my belief, but I haven't done formal proof for, that the rules would always be compatibly ordered. I believe this is because such canonicalizations should only be done within a given component and impact the list-based components. Where we would have actual forwarding problems would be the case where sub-components are dropped or appended to. A related incidental problem is if some NLRI are simply not forwarded because they're not able to be installed locally. You saw this in your paper. Such things could result in incorrect firewall installation due to rules not being present that might be a necessary pass/reject. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Oct 9 08:18:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4368213134E; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:18:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Susan Hares To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: idr-chairs@ietf.org, Susan Hares , iesg-secretary@ietf.org, shares@ndzh.com, idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153909833426.12302.4501066297212459071.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 08:18:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 15:18:54 -0000 Susan Hares has requested publication of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-12 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the IDR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ From nobody Tue Oct 9 10:43:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A03130E26; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X-gN9OIgKxE8; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 924A912D7EA; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 10:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.124.203.90; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , Cc: References: <001701d45c18$8d087820$a7196860$@ndzh.com> <800a8356a4f44e4db70f13a36c6f5552@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <8fba4405b5224a188e23741ee8b12dc1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <59137b660bc4469bb3f412e4839946f4@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <59137b660bc4469bb3f412e4839946f4@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 13:43:16 -0400 Message-ID: <020901d45ff7$8f9deec0$aed9cc40$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLCwtiZ0+4gZbYnoIH3A8XnFv6NZgFFJ6E3AgaxG1IBKoroKaMWtitQ Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181009-4, 10/09/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 17:43:23 -0000 Les: Thank you for the 2 implementation report. Based on the implementation report, this draft has been sent to the IESG for publication. Cheerily, Susan Hares -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 1:04 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp Implementation report has been updated to show two implementations. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 12:07 PM > To: Susan Hares ; idr@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp > > I have uploaded V12 of the document which addresses the Editorial > issue (#1 below). > > I have also uploaded an implementation report - currently specifying > the one known implementation. > > Les > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 11:49 PM > > To: Susan Hares ; idr@ietf.org > > Cc: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp > > > > Sue - > > > > Thanx for the review. > > Responses inline. > > > > From: Susan Hares > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:29 PM > > To: idr@ietf.org > > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; > > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm- bgp@ietf.org > > Subject: Shepherd's review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp > > > > Les, Stefano, Qin, Jeff, and Clarence: > > > > This document is generally in excellent shape. I note the following four > > things need to be fixed prior to submitting this to Alvaro Retana: > > > > > > 1) Editorial: > > Page 3 states "Unidirectional Packet Loss", but section 3.4 says > > "Unidirectional Link Loss TLV" > > > > Please fix this editorial error. It is a requirement for sending to > > the IESG for publication > > > > [Les:] I have changed these all to be "Link Loss' - consistent with RFC 7810. > > > > > > 2) Security Section - Consider whether you want to add additional > > comments in your security section about the distribution of IGP TE > > information in BGP. Even if the node inputted the data into BGP-LS has > the > > appropriate permissions, BGP blindly sends this to the entire BGP > > infrastructure supporting BGP-LS guided only by policy set on nodes. > > Is this what you want? > > > > If so, I will forward this to the security directorate for their review. > > > > > > > > [Les:] I am having some trouble understanding the motivation for > > your comment. > > > > IGP TE information has been distributed via BGP-LS since RFC 7752. > > Why do you believe that the addition of the IGP TE information > > defined here requires additional security comments? > > > > > > > > 3) We do not have any implementations reported. > > > > Please put the existence of the implementation on the BGP Wiki - > > under implementation reports. > > > > [Les:] I have an implementation report for one Cisco implementation > > which I will post shortly. A second Cisco implementation is > > currently in > progress _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Tue Oct 9 20:21:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C96B130E58; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 20:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id twTBTWKNsTrH; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 20:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (m21397.mail.qiye.163.com [223.252.213.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C321130E5A; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 20:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 1953A143CBD; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:21:22 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , "'Susan Hares'" , Cc: References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927A7A03369@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <006c01d45f74$5c402620$14c07260$@org.cn> <2eceb74fe53b432da237e2d13200fcb0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2eceb74fe53b432da237e2d13200fcb0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:21:22 +0800 Message-ID: <00bd01d46048$522efd30$f68cf790$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BE_01D4608B.60523D30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHUX3Rz9ePTH0L/XkCDs2tH+gw2IKUWeUmwgAFObbA= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6My46PDo5HTosSxoMGBk2FygDOgwaCRhVSlVKTkhC Sk9KTUNCTktDVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQU9LS0lDN1dZEgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a665bfe44547f6bkuuk1953a143cbd Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgV0cgQWRvcHRpb24g?= =?gb2312?b?Y2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtd2FuZy1pZHItYmdwbHMtaW50ZXItYXMtdG9wb2xv?= =?gb2312?b?Z3ktZXh0LTAyLnR4dCAoMTAvNC8yMDE4IHRvIDEwLzE4LzIwMTgp?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 03:21:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BE_01D4608B.60523D30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ketan: =20 Thanks for your supports and comments. I replied to the detail issues inline below, please refer them for our current considerations.=20 =20 On summary, there may be several options to accomplish the requirements, = we will try to find the most suitable way, based on the implementation experience of BGP-LS protocol, from Cisco and other vendors in future. =20 Wish to get more helps, comments, contribution from you and other = experts on this draft. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C29=C8=D5 15:13 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'; 'Susan Hares'; = idr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [Idr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Hi Aijun, =20 I support the requirement for this draft to cover the Inter-AS links advertisement via BGP-LS which was left out by RFC 7752 = (https://tools.ietf. org/html/rfc7752#section-3.5). =20 However, I have the following suggestions and comments. =20 1) The Inter-AS TE scenario is more straight forward and = well-defined be covered by this draft. But I would propose that such a link be = encoded by re-using existing TLVs as also suggested by Jie. The details can be = worked out, if you agree on the premise of re-use. [Aijun Wang]: The primary aim that we use different TLVs is to = distinguish these inter-as links easily from the internal links that the original IGP/BGP-LS advertise. One possible approach is to define one new = NLRI(for example inter-AS link NLRI) and reuses the existing the TLV; or we reuse = the existing Link NLRI, but use different TLVs. If we do not take such approaches, then it is not easy for the controller to filter the = inter-as links from BGP-LS report information. This is similar requirements as described in RFC5316 (inter-AS TE = for ISIS) and RFC5392 (inter-AS TE for OSPF) =20 =20 2) For the Inter-AS =A1=B0Native IP=A1=B1 scenario, the draft = proposes to use the Prefix NLRI corresponding to the redistributed Inter-AS link subnet = to derive (or construct) the Inter-AS link topology. I find this = problematic due to follows: a. Are all redistributed/external routes now going to get assumed = to be Inter-AS links? This generalization is not correct. [Aijun Wang] You are right. Not every redistributed/external routes be inter-as links. To exclude the possible exception, we can tag the redistributed inter-AS links, distinguish them from the other redistributed prefixes. This is general administration issues. We can add this in the updated version of this draft. =20 b. I do not understand how the inter-AS link is going to get =A1=B0derived=A1=B1 from this prefix =A8C it is just the prefix subnet = without any information of the remote node AS or link identifier information (which = is what we have in case (1) above as well as when using BGP EPE). [Aijun Wang] I have described the retrieval = process at the present slide in IETF 102 meeting. = Will this be help to you to grasp its essence? Anyway, the controller has = more capability to retrieval the inter-as topology based on the additional = report information via BGP-LS. We can discuss its applicable scenarios later in detail. =20 In summary, I support the adoption for the signalling for Inter-AS TE = links (with suggestion to re-use existing TLVs). But I don=A1=AFt support the use-case/scenario (2) which is being described as it would break the existing BGP-LS functionality for signalling of external/redistribute prefixes by implying that they are all Inter-AS links. =20 Thanks, Ketan =20 From: Idr On Behalf Of Aijun Wang Sent: 09 October 2018 07:34 To: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' ; 'Susan Hares' ; idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Hi, Jie: =20 Thanks for your supports and comments. Let=A1=AFs explain to you for our considerations for your concern = points. 1) For Non-TE scenario, the redistributed link information will be carried in =A1=B0prefix descriptor=A1=B1, as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02= #se ction-3.1, then no link related TLV will be carried. 2) For TE scenario, the inter-as link TLV should be treated different = from the ordinary link TLV, as stated in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5392#section-3.2.1 =A1=B0Given that OSPF = is an IGP and should only be utilized between routers in the same routing = domain, the OSPF specific Link ID and Neighbor ID sub-TLVs are not applicable to inter-AS links. =A1=B0, this is the same reason that we define the new = TLV within BGP-LS. =20 The format of these TLVs can be aligned, but the type ID should be different. For BGP-LS protocol, they should be newly assigned. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C28=C8=D5 22:34 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Hi,=20 =20 This document describes valid use cases of building inter-domain = topology using BGP-LS. Thus I support the adoption.=20 =20 And a few comment about section 4:=20 =20 The Link NLRI of BGP-LS includes the local node descriptors and remote = node descriptors, in which the AS number TLV can be carried. Can this be used = to specify the remote AS information? If so, the new remote AS number TLV = may not be necessary.=20 =20 =20 Please clarify whether the remote ASBR-ID is similar to one of the = following TLVs:=20 a. BGP router-ID as defined in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe,=20 b. IGP router-ID as defined in node descriptor sub-TLVs in RFC = 7752,=20 c. IPv4/IPv6 Router-ID as defined in Link attribute TLVs of RFC = 7752.=20 =20 It would be good if some existing TLVs can be reused to fulfill the use cases described.=20 =20 Best regards, Jie =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Susan = Hares =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Greetings:=20 =20 This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).. A quick link to the draft is at:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-e= xt/ =20 Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of = drafts will help operational management of networks. =20 =20 Susan Hares =20 IDR co-chair=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00BE_01D4608B.60523D30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Ketan:

 

Thanks for your supports and = comments.

I replied to the detail issues = inline below, please refer them for our current considerations. =

 

On summary, there may be = several options to accomplish the requirements, we will try to find the = most suitable way, based on the implementation experience of BGP-LS = protocol, from Cisco and other vendors in future. =  

Wish to get more helps, = comments, contribution from you and other experts on this = draft.

 

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C29=C8=D5 15:13
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; 'Dongjie = (Jimmy)'; 'Susan Hares'; idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: RE: [Idr] = =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Hi = Aijun,

 

I support = the requirement for this draft to cover the Inter-AS links advertisement = via BGP-LS which was left out by RFC 7752 (https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.5).

 

However, I = have the following suggestions and comments.

 

1)      = The Inter-AS TE scenario is more straight = forward and well-defined be covered by this draft. But I would propose = that such a link be encoded by re-using existing TLVs as also suggested = by Jie. The details can be worked out, if you agree on the premise of = re-use.

[Aijun Wang]: The primary aim that we use = different TLVs is to distinguish these inter-as links easily from the = internal links that the original IGP/BGP-LS advertise. One possible = approach is to define one new NLRI(for example inter-AS link NLRI) and = reuses the existing the TLV; or we reuse the existing Link NLRI, but use = different TLVs.  If we do not take such approaches, then it is not = easy for the controller to filter the inter-as links from BGP-LS report = information.  This is similar requirements as described in RFC5316 (inter-AS TE = for ISIS) and RFC5392(inter-AS TE for = OSPF)

 

 

2)     For the Inter-AS =A1=B0Native = IP=A1=B1 scenario, the draft proposes to use the Prefix NLRI = corresponding to the redistributed Inter-AS link subnet to derive (or = construct) the Inter-AS link topology. I find this problematic due to = follows:

a.      = Are all = redistributed/external routes now going to get assumed to be Inter-AS = links? This generalization is not correct.

     &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;      [Aijun Wang] You are right. Not every = redistributed/external routes be inter-as links. To exclude the possible = exception, we can tag the redistributed inter-AS links, distinguish them = from the other redistributed prefixes. This is general administration = issues. We can add this in the updated version of this = draft.

 

b.      = I do not understand = how the inter-AS link is going to get =A1=B0derived=A1=B1 from this = prefix =A8C it is just the prefix subnet without any information of the = remote node AS or link identifier information (which is what we have in = case (1) above as well as when using BGP EPE).

  =             &= nbsp;         [Aijun Wang] = I have described the retrieval process at the present = slide in IETF 102 meeting. Will this be help to you to grasp its = essence? Anyway, the controller has more capability to retrieval the = inter-as topology based on the additional report information via BGP-LS. = We can discuss its applicable scenarios later in = detail.

 

In summary, I support the adoption = for the signalling for Inter-AS TE links (with suggestion to re-use = existing TLVs). But I don=A1=AFt support the use-case/scenario (2) which = is being described as it would break the existing BGP-LS functionality = for signalling of external/redistribute prefixes by implying that they = are all Inter-AS links.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: 09 October 2018 = 07:34
To: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' <jie.dong@huawei.com>; 'Susan = Hares' <shares@ndzh.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft= -wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
Subject: = [Idr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Hi, = Jie:

 

Thanks for your supports and = comments.

Let=A1=AFs explain to you for = our considerations for your concern points.

1)      = For = Non-TE scenario, the redistributed link information will be carried in = =A1=B0prefix descriptor=A1=B1, as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-in= ter-as-topology-ext-02#section-3.1, then no link related TLV will be = carried.

2)=
   For TE scenario, the inter-as =
link TLV should be treated different from the ordinary link TLV, as =
stated in https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc5392#section-3.2.1  =A1=B0Given =
that OSPF is an IGP and should only be utilized between routers in the =
same routing domain, the OSPF specific Link ID and Neighbor ID sub-TLVs =
are not applicable to inter-AS links. =A1=B0, this is the same =
reason that we define the new TLV within BGP-LS.
&nbs=
p;
The format of these TLVs can be =
aligned, but the type ID should be different. For BGP-LS protocol, they =
should be newly assigned.
 
 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com] =
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C28=C8=D5 22:34
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: draft= -wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: [Idr] = =B4=F0=B8=B4: WG Adoption call for = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Hi,

 

This document describes valid = use cases of building inter-domain topology using  BGP-LS. Thus I = support the adoption.

 

And a few comment about section = 4:

 

The Link NLRI of BGP-LS = includes the local node descriptors and remote node descriptors, in = which the AS number TLV can be carried. Can this be used to specify the = remote AS information? If so, the new remote AS number TLV may not be = necessary.

 

 

Please clarify whether the = remote ASBR-ID is similar to one of the following TLVs: =

a.       = BGP = router-ID as defined in draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, =

b.       = IGP = router-ID as defined in node descriptor sub-TLVs in RFC 7752, =

c.       = IPv4/IPv6 Router-ID as defined = in Link attribute TLVs of RFC 7752.

 

It would be good if some = existing TLVs can be reused to fulfill the use cases described. =

 

Best = regards,

Jie

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE= =C8=CB: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED= Susan = Hares
=B7=A2=CB=CD= =CA=B1=BC=E4: = 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: draft= -wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: [Idr] WG Adoption = call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)..  A quick link to the draft is at: =

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-= as-topology-ext/

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the = BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks.  =

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair =

------=_NextPart_000_00BE_01D4608B.60523D30-- From nobody Tue Oct 9 23:42:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74924130EA2; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:41:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153915370142.10748.4481981056847285638@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 23:41:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:41:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering Performance Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Qin Wu Jeff Tantsura Clarence Filsfils Filename : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-10-09 Abstract: This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 9 23:46:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7C1130E95 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FI1UdwdNudQu for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EE52130EA8 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 23:46:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1957; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1539153978; x=1540363578; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=DTGYVbWDYxpXovpCwWwvd7rXA1kl10rVUm0Vj3vjuVA=; b=EW6/UGXv3ttivtup0TUdCqs6UV79fxUGRdCb5TEgYN3wxU40XPMKd3pm VMx2AOEb9rRyTa/9HC0x/uRwobaI/9/EWPs/ceNz9LvbeJ/Xk+9EfD/H8 BYGD6fAjC0y1sdXV41CVtW9/jwSePygp8dhj6kXrcZ5NoJn84E6D4TOzH U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AFAADvnr1b/51dJa1jGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBUQUBAQEBCwGCBWZ/KAqMAIwzgg2WeoF6CwEBGAuESQKEQyE?= =?us-ascii?q?0DQ0BAwEBAgEBAm0cAQuFOQEBAQEDAQE4NBcEAgEIEQQBAR8QJwsdCAIEEwi?= =?us-ascii?q?DGoIBD6V4hDMHhV+LOReBQT+BEYMTgxsBAQIBARaBbYUyAp1+CQKGT4MShmU?= =?us-ascii?q?fgU5LhB2JTIwuiS0CERSBJR04gVVwFRohgmwJiw6FPm+LGYEfAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,363,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="183772727" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Oct 2018 06:46:17 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9A6kHEq023753 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:46:17 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 01:46:16 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 01:46:16 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt Thread-Index: AQHUYGS9pitR4XcIlUixeqaygW6fWKUYCPIg Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:46:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153915370142.10748.4481981056847285638@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153915370142.10748.4481981056847285638@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.10.251] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:46:33 -0000 Updating affiliations for a couple of the authors. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 11:42 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: idr@ietf.org > Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering= Performance > Metric Extensions > Authors : Les Ginsberg > Stefano Previdi > Qin Wu > Jeff Tantsura > Clarence Filsfils > Filename : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2018-10-09 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP > Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Wed Oct 10 13:31:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9641277BB; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:31:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153920346095.5879.5494581492391551747@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:31:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:31:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Optimal Route Reflection (BGP-ORR) Authors : Robert Raszuk Christian Cassar Erik Aman Bruno Decraene Kevin Wang Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-10-10 Abstract: This document proposes a solution for BGP route reflectors to allow them to choose the best path for their clients that the clients themselves would have chosen under the same conditions, without requiring further state or any new features to be placed on the clients. This facilitates, for example, best exit point policy (hot potato routing). This solution is primarily applicable in deployments using centralized route reflectors. The solution relies upon all route reflectors learning all paths which are eligible for consideration. Best path selection is performed in each route reflector based on a configured virtual location in the IGP. The location can be the same for all clients or different per peer/update group or per peer. Best path selection can also be performed based on user configured policies in each route reflector. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 10 19:10:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B954B130E04; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:10:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153922381062.5924.12017980721696304835@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:10:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 02:10:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Link-State extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Hannes Gredler Mach(Guoyi) Chen Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2018-10-10 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by routing protocols e.g. by the link state routing protocols (IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) within IGP topologies. This draft defines extensions to the BGP Link-state address-family in order to carry segment routing information via BGP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 10 19:15:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E473C130DFB; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:15:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pL7okcabFwAe; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F6D2130DFD; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:15:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=35201; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1539224107; x=1540433707; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=GlCAXVCXk4/htvZoYTui12YMByugOu2VdBbuMA8uyDo=; b=SsDbXYq2eKzAKP8Tcbnnz55Yp0Mr1X7fdf7czUu3y08jEePeSMFs/yyD IbU8OKXhEGetvX35crI/7fG01fVUgZ4rjG1xzXBU+r3Ucx35pTJyOnESI 1o7z5kUbq7GnjKlOtIVKjyHhpCoS55o7dvNnHgVRuNHEMGyV9k6bP3how U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAABIsb5b/4ENJK1ZChkBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEHAQEBAQEBgVEEAQEBAQELAYEMSC9mfygKjAGMN4INeod4jg2Begs?= =?us-ascii?q?BASeERQKEUCE0DQ0BAwEBAgEBAm0cDIU5AQEBBC06EhACAQgOAwEDAQEhAQ0?= =?us-ascii?q?hERcGCAEBBAENBQgTgweBHUwDFQ+nTIc8DYITBYs7F4FBP4ERAYJdNYJWRQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAgGBMwUQPIUyAohNDgEDhT2GB4k5LQkChlCDE4NMgxkfgU+EaolUjDJ0iEE?= =?us-ascii?q?CERSBJR04gVVwFYMngiYXiFqFPm8BixaBLYEfAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,366,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="464567611" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Oct 2018 02:15:05 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com (xch-rcd-006.cisco.com [173.37.102.16]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9B2F4En016933 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 02:15:04 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com (173.37.102.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 21:15:03 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 21:15:03 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org" , "'John Scudder'" , "'Alvaro Retana'" Thread-Topic: shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt Thread-Index: AdQGL5Y5fZ5Ztu4KQ9G6IFTdx3l20xa2Hnkg Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 02:15:03 +0000 Message-ID: <8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <016d01d40637$ac404c90$04c0e5b0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <016d01d40637$ac404c90$04c0e5b0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.64.156] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7dXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xch-rcd-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-9.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 02:15:10 -0000 --_000_8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7dXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Susan, The v9 of the draft which addresses your comments has just been posted. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 17 June 2018 18:05 To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org; 'John Scudder' ; 'Alvaro Retana' ; Ketan Talaulikar (= ketant) Subject: shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.tx= t This is a shepherds review after WG LC, RTG-DIR QA review, and OPS QA Revie= w. Summary: I have minor issues and editorial comments on this document. The m= inor issues will need to be resolved before this document is sent to the IE= SG. The minors issues arise out of the shepherd's review of the document an= d the two QA Reviews. Thanks: I want to thank the WG for its active review during WG LC, and following pe= ople who provided specific early reviews on this document: 1) Robert Raszuk and Tony Li - during WG LC 2) Jeff Hass - during WG LC 3) Aijun Wang - during WG LC 4) Victoria Pritchard - RTG-DIR QA review 5) Joel Jaeggli - OPS QA review I want to thank the authors for a well written draft and productive dialogu= es with the reviewers. Susan Hares ---------- Minor issues: Source: Shepherd Issue 1: BGP Error handling Problem: The BGP Error handling in the document has two types: malformed TLVs and r= estrictions on the TLVs which can be inserted in the Node NLRI (section 2.1= ), Link NLRI (Section 2.2), and Prefix NLRI (section 2.3). The error handl= ing in RFC5572 does not specifically handle the restrictions on TLVs. Suggested solution: Denote these errors as NLRI content errors and specifically indicate how th= ese are treated. Textual changes: Section 2.1 on page 6, just before 2.1.1 paragraph New/ If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Link Att= ribute or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a content error r= ather than a malformed NLRI. See the manageability section for an expl= anation of how content errors are handled. / Section 2.2 on page 10, after table 2 and the paragraph that ends "TLV/Sub-= TLV described below." New/ If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node Att= ribute or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a content error r= ather than a malformed NLRI. See the manageability section for an expl= anation of how content errors are handled. / Section 2.3 on page 14, just before 2.3.1 New /If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node At= tribute or the Link attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this content error rather= than a malformed NLRI. See the manageability section for an explanati= on of how content errors are handled. / Replace the 3rd sentence of the second paragraph of 5. Manageability Consid= erations Old/ Specifically the determination of malformed attributes and their handling follow the base BGP-LS specification [RFC7752]. / New / Specifically, the malformed NLRIs attribute tests in the FAULT Management section of [RFC7752] now encompass the new TLVs for the BGP-LS NLRI in this document. Three content restrictions for TLV insertion are given in sections 2.1, 2.2= , and 2.3 to which limit the inclusion of TLVs to certain BGP-LS NLRI attri= butes. Any BGP-LS NLRI which does not abide by the content restriction will= be treated as a malformed BGP-LS NLRI. If BGP-LS NLRI with these extensions is determined to be malformed by the receiving BGP peer, the BGP peer receiving the BGP packet drops the attribute the malformed BGP-LS NLRI was detect in (either the BG= P_MP_REACH_NLRI attribute or the BGP_MP_UNREACH_NLRI attribute). / Issue 2: Source: Shepherd: Problem: section 2.1.3 does not indicate where the values come for the 1 octet ident= ifying the algorithm. If these are configured on a network basis, please i= dentify this point. If these are part of an ISIS or OSPF standard please sp= ecify. Issue 3: Source: Joel Jaeggli's OPS-DIR review Problem: None of the review points from the OPS-DIR QA review have been ad= dressed Recommended solution: The authors should consider these suggestions and add= ress his 3 points. Issue 4: Source: Victoria Pritchard QA review concern Problem: RTG-QA review issue 7 2.1.5 The SRMS Preference TLV only contains the Preference value, so it was unclear how this is linked to a mapping server? Is the mapping server some = other field in the message? [KT response] The SRMS Preference TLV indicates the preference value for th= e node NLRI that it is a part of when that node is a mapping server. One wo= uld need to go through the referenced IGPs specs and likely the relevant SR= specs to understand the mapping server. [Shepherd's comment: text in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop = states: We introduce the definition of the Segment Routing Mapping Server (SRMS) which consists of an IGP (IS-IS, OSPF and OSPFv3) extension allowing an SR capable router to advertise mappings between prefixes and Segment Identifiers (SID). The details on how the mappings are encoded and advertised are protocol specific and defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions], [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions]. The SRMS function of a SR capable router allows distribution of mappings for prefixes not locally attached to the advertising router and therefore allows advertisement of mappings on behalf of non-SR capable routers. I suggest this definition moves up to the segment routing draft (draft-ietf= -spring-segment-routing-16), then draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext= and draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop can utilize the draft. = In the meantime, put a similar definition in this draft in section with a c= omment that states it will disappear. -------------------------- Editorial issues Issue 1: explaining what capability architecture Source: from RTG-QA issue 5 (editorial) (5)2.1.2. The capabilities TLV "advertise the node's SR capabilities and it= s Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB) range(s)", but the format diagram only= contains Segment ID information. What are the capabilities? Or does the pr= esence of this TLV indicate the capability? [KT Response] The Capabilities are the SRGB and the flags carried in the TL= V. Shepherd: A short explanation on why this is considered "capability" is in = order here. --_000_8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7dXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Susa= n,

&n= bsp;

The v9 = of the draft which addresses your comments has just been posted.=

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 17 June 2018 18:05
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org; 'John Scudde= r' <jgs@juniper.net>; 'Alvaro Retana' <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>;= Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Subject: shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ex= t-08.txt

 

= This is a shepherds review after WG LC, RTG-DIR QA review, and OPS QA Revie= w.

=  

= Summary: I have minor issues and editorial comments on this document. The m= inor issues will need to be resolved before this document is sent to the IE= SG. The minors issues arise out of the shepherd’s review of the document and the two QA Reviews.

=  

=  

= Thanks:

= I want to thank the WG for its active review during WG LC, and following pe= ople who provided specific early reviews on this document:

1)  Robert Raszuk and Tony Li – during WG LC  

2)  Jeff Hass – during WG LC

3)  Aijun Wang – during WG LC

4)  Victoria Pritchard – RTG-DIR QA review

5)  Joel Jaeggli – OPS QA review

=  

= I want to thank the authors for a well written draft and productive dialogu= es with the reviewers.

=  

= Susan Hares

=  

=  

= ----------

=  

Minor issues:

=  

= Source: Shepherd

= Issue 1: BGP Error handling

=  

= Problem:   

= The BGP Error handling in the document has two types:  malformed TLVs = and restrictions on the TLVs which can be inserted in the Node NLRI (sectio= n 2.1), Link NLRI (Section 2.2), and Prefix NLRI (section 2.3).  The error handling in RFC5572 does not specifically handle the= restrictions on TLVs.

=  

= Suggested solution:

= Denote these errors as NLRI content errors and specifically indicate how th= ese are treated.

=  

= Textual changes:

= Section 2.1 on page 6, just before 2.1.1 paragraph

= New/

= If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Link Att= ribute or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a   conte= nt error rather than a malformed NLRI.  See the manageability &nb= sp;   section for an explanation of how content errors are handled.

= /

= Section 2.2 on page 10, after table 2 and the paragraph that ends “TL= V/Sub-TLV described below.”

=  

= New/

= If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node Att= ribute or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a   conte= nt error rather than a malformed NLRI.  See the manageability &nb= sp;   section for an explanation of how content errors are handled.

= /

=  

= Section 2.3 on page 14, just before 2.3.1

=  

= New

= /If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node At= tribute or the Link attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this content error rather= than a malformed NLRI.  See the manageability     section for an explanation of how content errors are handled.

= /

=  

= Replace the 3rd sentence of the second paragraph of 5. Manageabi= lity Considerations

=  

= Old/

Specifically the determination of malforme=
d attributes and their
handling follow the base BGP-LS specificat=
ion [RFC7752].

= /

= New /

Specifically, the malformed NLRIs attribute tests

in the FAULT Management section of [RFC7752]=

now encompass the new TLVs for the BGP-LS NLRI in this doc= ument.

=  

Three content restrictions for TLV insertion are given in = sections 2.1, 2.2, and 2.3 to which limit the inclusion of TLVs to certain = BGP-LS NLRI attributes. Any BGP-LS NLRI which does not abide by the content restriction will be treated as a malformed B= GP-LS NLRI. 

 

If BGP-LS NLRI with these extensions is determined to be m= alformed

by the receiving BGP peer, the BGP peer receiving the BGP = packet

drops the attribute the malformed BGP-LS NLRI was detect i= n  (either the BGP_MP_REACH_NLRI attribute or the BGP_MP_UNREACH_NLRI = attribute).

/

 

Issue 2:

Source: Shepherd:

Problem:

section 2.1.3 does not indicate where the values come for = the 1 octet identifying the algorithm.  If these are configured on a n= etwork basis, please identify this point. If these are part of an ISIS or OSPF standard please specify.

 

Issue 3:

Source: Joel Jaeggli’s OPS-DIR review

Problem:  None of the review points from the OPS-DIR = QA review have been addressed

Recommended solution: The authors should consider these su= ggestions and address his 3 points.

 

Issue 4:

Source: Victoria Pritchard QA review concern

Problem: RTG-QA review issue 7

2.1.5

The SRMS Preference TLV only contains the Preference value= , so it was

unclear how this is linked to a mapping server? Is the map= ping server some other field in the message?

 

[KT response] The SRMS Preference TLV indicates the prefer= ence value for the node NLRI that it is a part of when that node is a mappi= ng server. One would need to go through the referenced IGPs specs and likely the relevant SR specs to understand the mapping serv= er.

 

[Shepherd’s comment: text in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp= -interop states: 

   We introduce the definition = of the Segment Routing Mapping Server

   (SRMS) which consists of an IGP (= IS-IS, OSPF and OSPFv3) extension

   allowing an SR capable router to = advertise mappings between prefixes

   and Segment Identifiers (SID).&nb= sp; The details on how the mappings are

   encoded and advertised are protoc= ol specific and defined in

   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],=

   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and

   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

 

   The SRMS function of a SR capable= router allows distribution of

   mappings for prefixes not locally= attached to the advertising router

   and therefore allows advertisemen= t of mappings on behalf of non-SR

   capable routers.

 <= /o:p>

I suggest this definition moves up to the segment routing draft (draft-i= etf-spring-segment-routing-16), then draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-= ext and draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop can utilize the draft.&n= bsp; In the meantime, put a similar definition in this draft in section wit= h a comment that states it will disappear.   

 

--------------------------

 

Editorial issues

 

Issue 1: explaining what capability architecture

 

Source: from RTG-QA issue 5  (editorial)

(5)2.1.2. The cap= abilities TLV "advertise the node's SR capabilities and its Segment Ro= uting Global Base (SRGB) range(s)", but the format diagram only contains Segment ID information. What are the capabilities? Or does t= he presence of this TLV indicate the capability?

 =

[KT Response] The Capabilities are the SRGB and the flags carried in the= TLV.

Shepherd: A short explanation on why this is considered “capabilit= y” is in order here.

 

--_000_8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7dXCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 04:50:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBDD130E1B; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K3SVusxYw8GC; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEDA8130DD1; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 04:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=75.121.229.134; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , Cc: References: <016d01d40637$ac404c90$04c0e5b0$@ndzh.com> <8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8af69b30f2134ffd8111a88f04e0df7d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:50:12 -0400 Message-ID: <009e01d46158$91d838f0$b588aad0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009F_01D46137.0AC97F20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQK6aIoi7K5qxc2jWlVBH5V1eTLP/QKWQ9TJozkty+A= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181011-0, 10/11/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 11:50:39 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01D46137.0AC97F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: Thank you for submitting this revision. I will review this revision today. Cheers, Susan hares From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:15 PM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt Hi Susan, The v9 of the draft which addresses your comments has just been posted. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 17 June 2018 18:05 To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org; 'John Scudder' ; 'Alvaro Retana' ; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Subject: shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt This is a shepherds review after WG LC, RTG-DIR QA review, and OPS QA Review. Summary: I have minor issues and editorial comments on this document. The minor issues will need to be resolved before this document is sent to the IESG. The minors issues arise out of the shepherd's review of the document and the two QA Reviews. Thanks: I want to thank the WG for its active review during WG LC, and following people who provided specific early reviews on this document: 1) Robert Raszuk and Tony Li - during WG LC 2) Jeff Hass - during WG LC 3) Aijun Wang - during WG LC 4) Victoria Pritchard - RTG-DIR QA review 5) Joel Jaeggli - OPS QA review I want to thank the authors for a well written draft and productive dialogues with the reviewers. Susan Hares ---------- Minor issues: Source: Shepherd Issue 1: BGP Error handling Problem: The BGP Error handling in the document has two types: malformed TLVs and restrictions on the TLVs which can be inserted in the Node NLRI (section 2.1), Link NLRI (Section 2.2), and Prefix NLRI (section 2.3). The error handling in RFC5572 does not specifically handle the restrictions on TLVs. Suggested solution: Denote these errors as NLRI content errors and specifically indicate how these are treated. Textual changes: Section 2.1 on page 6, just before 2.1.1 paragraph New/ If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Link Attribute or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a content error rather than a malformed NLRI. See the manageability section for an explanation of how content errors are handled. / Section 2.2 on page 10, after table 2 and the paragraph that ends "TLV/Sub-TLV described below." New/ If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node Attribute or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a content error rather than a malformed NLRI. See the manageability section for an explanation of how content errors are handled. / Section 2.3 on page 14, just before 2.3.1 New /If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node Attribute or the Link attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this content error rather than a malformed NLRI. See the manageability section for an explanation of how content errors are handled. / Replace the 3rd sentence of the second paragraph of 5. Manageability Considerations Old/ Specifically the determination of malformed attributes and their handling follow the base BGP-LS specification [RFC7752 ]. / New / Specifically, the malformed NLRIs attribute tests in the FAULT Management section of [RFC7752 ] now encompass the new TLVs for the BGP-LS NLRI in this document. Three content restrictions for TLV insertion are given in sections 2.1, 2.2, and 2.3 to which limit the inclusion of TLVs to certain BGP-LS NLRI attributes. Any BGP-LS NLRI which does not abide by the content restriction will be treated as a malformed BGP-LS NLRI. If BGP-LS NLRI with these extensions is determined to be malformed by the receiving BGP peer, the BGP peer receiving the BGP packet drops the attribute the malformed BGP-LS NLRI was detect in (either the BGP_MP_REACH_NLRI attribute or the BGP_MP_UNREACH_NLRI attribute). / Issue 2: Source: Shepherd: Problem: section 2.1.3 does not indicate where the values come for the 1 octet identifying the algorithm. If these are configured on a network basis, please identify this point. If these are part of an ISIS or OSPF standard please specify. Issue 3: Source: Joel Jaeggli's OPS-DIR review Problem: None of the review points from the OPS-DIR QA review have been addressed Recommended solution: The authors should consider these suggestions and address his 3 points. Issue 4: Source: Victoria Pritchard QA review concern Problem: RTG-QA review issue 7 2.1.5 The SRMS Preference TLV only contains the Preference value, so it was unclear how this is linked to a mapping server? Is the mapping server some other field in the message? [KT response] The SRMS Preference TLV indicates the preference value for the node NLRI that it is a part of when that node is a mapping server. One would need to go through the referenced IGPs specs and likely the relevant SR specs to understand the mapping server. [Shepherd's comment: text in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop states: We introduce the definition of the Segment Routing Mapping Server (SRMS) which consists of an IGP (IS-IS, OSPF and OSPFv3) extension allowing an SR capable router to advertise mappings between prefixes and Segment Identifiers (SID). The details on how the mappings are encoded and advertised are protocol specific and defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions ], [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions ] and [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions ]. The SRMS function of a SR capable router allows distribution of mappings for prefixes not locally attached to the advertising router and therefore allows advertisement of mappings on behalf of non-SR capable routers. I suggest this definition moves up to the segment routing draft (draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-16), then draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext and draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop can utilize the draft. In the meantime, put a similar definition in this draft in section with a comment that states it will disappear. -------------------------- Editorial issues Issue 1: explaining what capability architecture Source: from RTG-QA issue 5 (editorial) (5)2.1.2. The capabilities TLV "advertise the node's SR capabilities and its Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB) range(s)", but the format diagram only contains Segment ID information. What are the capabilities? Or does the presence of this TLV indicate the capability? [KT Response] The Capabilities are the SRGB and the flags carried in the TLV. Shepherd: A short explanation on why this is considered "capability" is in order here. ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01D46137.0AC97F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

Thank you for submitting = this revision.  I will review this revision today. =

 

Cheers,  Susan = hares

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant)
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:15 = PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Cc: = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] shepherd review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt

 

Hi = Susan,

 

The v9 of = the draft which addresses your comments has just been = posted.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 17 June 2018 = 18:05
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext@ietf.org; 'John Scudder' = <jgs@juniper.net>; 'Alvaro Retana' <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>; = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Subject: = shepherd review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt =

 

This is a = shepherds review after WG LC, RTG-DIR QA review, and OPS QA Review. =

 

Summary: I = have minor issues and editorial comments on this document. The minor = issues will need to be resolved before this document is sent to the = IESG. The minors issues arise out of the shepherd’s review of the = document and the two QA Reviews.

 

 

Thanks:

I want to thank the WG for its = active review during WG LC, and following people who provided specific = early reviews on this document:

1)  = Robert Raszuk and Tony = Li – during WG LC  

2)  = Jeff Hass – = during WG LC

3)  Aijun Wang – during WG LC

4)  = Victoria Pritchard = – RTG-DIR QA review

5)  = Joel Jaeggli – = OPS QA review

 

I want to = thank the authors for a well written draft and productive dialogues with = the reviewers.

 

Susan Hares =

 

 

----------

 

Minor issues: =

 

Source: = Shepherd

Issue 1: BGP Error handling =

 

Problem: =   

The BGP Error handling in the = document has two types:  malformed TLVs and restrictions on the = TLVs which can be inserted in the Node NLRI (section 2.1), Link NLRI = (Section 2.2), and Prefix NLRI (section 2.3).  The error handling = in RFC5572 does not specifically handle the restrictions on TLVs. =

 

Suggested = solution:

Denote these errors as NLRI content = errors and specifically indicate how these are treated. =

 

Textual = changes:

Section 2.1 on page 6, just before = 2.1.1 paragraph

New/

If a BGP = Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Link Attribute = or the Prefix attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a   content = error rather than a malformed NLRI.  See the = manageability     section for an explanation of how = content errors are handled.

/

Section 2.2 on page 10, after table = 2 and the paragraph that ends “TLV/Sub-TLV described below.” =

 

New/

If a BGP Peer supporting BGP-LS = incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node Attribute or the Prefix = attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this a   content error rather = than a malformed NLRI.  See the = manageability     section for an explanation of how = content errors are handled.

/

 

Section 2.3 = on page 14, just before 2.3.1

 

New

/If a BGP = Peer supporting BGP-LS incorrectly adds these TLVs to the Node Attribute = or the Link attribute of the BGP-LS NLRI, this content error rather than = a malformed NLRI.  See the manageability     = section for an explanation of how content errors are = handled.

/

 

Replace the 3rd sentence = of the second paragraph of 5. Manageability = Considerations

 

Old/

Specifically the determination of malformed =
attributes and their
handling follow the base BGP-LS specification [RFC7752].

/

New /

Specifically, the malformed NLRIs attribute tests =

in the FAULT = Management section of [RFC7752]

now encompass the = new TLVs for the BGP-LS NLRI in this document.

 

Three content = restrictions for TLV insertion are given in sections 2.1, 2.2, and 2.3 = to which limit the inclusion of TLVs to certain BGP-LS NLRI attributes. = Any BGP-LS NLRI which does not abide by the content restriction will be = treated as a malformed BGP-LS NLRI. 

 

If BGP-LS NLRI with = these extensions is determined to be malformed

by the receiving BGP peer, the BGP peer receiving the BGP packet =

drops the attribute = the malformed BGP-LS NLRI was detect in  (either the = BGP_MP_REACH_NLRI attribute or the BGP_MP_UNREACH_NLRI attribute). =

/

 

Issue 2: =

Source: Shepherd: =

Problem: =

section 2.1.3 does = not indicate where the values come for the 1 octet identifying the = algorithm.  If these are configured on a network basis, please = identify this point. If these are part of an ISIS or OSPF standard = please specify.

 

Issue = 3:

Source: Joel = Jaeggli’s OPS-DIR review

Problem:  None of the review points from the OPS-DIR QA = review have been addressed

Recommended solution: The authors should consider these = suggestions and address his 3 points.

 

Issue 4: =

Source: Victoria = Pritchard QA review concern

Problem: RTG-QA review issue 7

2.1.5

The SRMS Preference = TLV only contains the Preference value, so it = was

unclear how this is = linked to a mapping server? Is the mapping server some other field in = the message?

 

[KT response] The = SRMS Preference TLV indicates the preference value for the node NLRI = that it is a part of when that node is a mapping server. One would need = to go through the referenced IGPs specs and likely the relevant SR specs = to understand the mapping server.

 

[Shepherd’s = comment: text in = draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop states:  =

   We introduce the definition of the = Segment Routing Mapping Server

   (SRMS) which consists of an IGP (IS-IS, = OSPF and OSPFv3) extension

   allowing an SR capable router to = advertise mappings between prefixes

   and Segment Identifiers (SID).  The = details on how the mappings are

   encoded and advertised are protocol = specific and defined in

   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],<= /span>

   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] = and

   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].=

 

   The SRMS function of a SR capable router = allows distribution of

   mappings for prefixes not locally = attached to the advertising router

   and therefore allows advertisement of = mappings on behalf of non-SR

   capable routers.

 =

I = suggest this definition moves up to the segment routing draft = (draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-16), then = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext and = draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop can utilize the = draft.  In the meantime, put a similar definition in this draft in = section with a comment that states it will disappear.    =

 

--------------------------

 

Editorial issues =

 

Issue 1: explaining = what capability architecture

 

Source: from RTG-QA = issue 5  (editorial)

(5)2.1.2. The capabilities TLV "advertise the = node's SR capabilities and its Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB) = range(s)", but the format diagram only contains Segment ID = information. What are the capabilities? Or does the presence of this TLV = indicate the capability?

 

[KT = Response] The Capabilities are the SRGB and the flags carried in the = TLV.

Shepherd: A short explanation on why this is = considered “capability” is in order here. =

 

------=_NextPart_000_009F_01D46137.0AC97F20-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 08:00:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A6C130DF7; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:00:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ZuSF57A4o_X; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1877B130DE6; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E2F5ACD4E94FC; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:00:42 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:00:44 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.47]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.166]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:00:37 -0700 From: Huaimo Chen To: idr , shares CC: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AQHUX4gFC38P3g+Sa0asDqMPQ7+LWqUaJnfg Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:00:36 +0000 Message-ID: <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD2D0D@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.247.248] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD2D0Dsjceml521mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:00:51 -0000 --_000_5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD2D0Dsjceml521mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. Best Regards, Huaimo as co-author From: Susan Hares Date: 2018-10-05 04:12 To: idr@ietf.org CC: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD2D0Dsjceml521mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support.

 

Best Regards,

Huaimo as co-author=

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for draft-wa= nt-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).  = A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/<= /span>

 

Please comment on whether you feel this= addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of n= etworks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair

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Support.
Thanks,
- Xufeng

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018= at 4:13 PM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.= com> wrote:

Greetings:

=C2=A0

This is a WG adopt= ion call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 t= o 10/18/2018).=C2=A0 A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/

=

=C2=A0

Pleas= e comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts wil= l help operational management of networks.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Susan Hares = =C2=A0

IDR co-chair <= /p>

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--0000000000007d8fc00577f8dda4-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 13:34:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D04127333; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:34:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S54BUbMGvdg1; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 244A1124C04; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id m18-v6so7712286lfl.11; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:34:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=X4ir2M9q3b0d2YE3YmlYj++kmAa4GFVV8HiZBBL9xQI=; b=rHDwq5ZL93wXCy0n+hoiio0ghI/CEUJok1VCO2nGVQB4OjqKaWCxFuonPSEd0Qqo3J 63rh1AfoKL2hPHk9Mi/AQrHpQJRVpiqQFNtZwTladACPc6SoR5oSbWF+ixGzVPEFdRBh ZtsOJyCHhLPeJnuVbU8dm3iYHMGb9MYDV6KPlL3HIkwXxm2QiMc6mXTVr/fS1wJ+rWQQ gcaHxL3swpdxn7CnWtJzqnWOdgHV2HfvKQun4DCv1iaol9qO9H27L+Kb9DoCtaoP0ZkL KtkFJDg3spE1sHtM3Z5pgmI3x2ZouBN71/vhfcEs7yEYMQGYMK2y4lpfbILudBGQWlNR g9Hw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X4ir2M9q3b0d2YE3YmlYj++kmAa4GFVV8HiZBBL9xQI=; b=rXSd2pTtPEPLiTMyjd9IxLGgT8E6jL59G/Z+1rGRJBRGBnYX4JGsMvArLaObWRWhBm YxVS/vf27CGGkyItz12RrFd57j2ec1BboYTa4BFZsOyFR3j8JBiSqiAsW7m/RT45D79c fBWAx0Bod1cjHuj5k919ptBPLpaC7i0qimNPv66fgP7dZnW7X9tg/zkVNpRUeUmYUTBw rv9A428GKDfLilYRUle7jl/IL74XgUzZjoI089VY+uMRN0i0tt/B4rTwab/GZfan7Q4f nvIQGc+0OzrEYf3uubOryp3JIWB725Cw2SLq8U1+hje7AyPCya3KpfHhCEk1by3FjRdU VM7A== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohk2e3vY2S3FNJ6012FcrCL4N9m0wsHO4qdD1eEXc72w+ZobPI5 OuetsWlhbCI9FosYAjUtBn0zM9RyPBj9hXFGab30yQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62xgj7Snsi3wKLXjnqBXLKSU9LjhSVa2fuYo7/nTakmO9v2mNCrmBEt5BPQFWparn7SyZAi/0f8dNvrVQF1bzQ= X-Received: by 2002:a19:7409:: with SMTP id v9-v6mr2166423lfe.147.1539290081240; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:34:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: From: LEI LIU Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:34:08 -0700 Message-ID: To: xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com, draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Cc: shares@ndzh.com, idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007faa580577f9e60a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:34:45 -0000 --0000000000007faa580577f9e60a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support. Thanks, Lei On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:20 PM Xufeng Liu wrote: > Support. > Thanks, > - Xufeng > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 4:13 PM Susan Hares wrote: > >> Greetings: >> >> >> >> This is a WG adoption call for >> draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to >> 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: >> >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/ >> >> >> >> Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of >> drafts will help operational management of networks. >> >> >> >> Susan Hares >> >> IDR co-chair >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --0000000000007faa580577f9e60a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support.=C2=A0

Thanks,=C2=A0
= Lei


On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:20 PM Xufeng Liu <xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Support.
Thanks,
- Xufeng

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 4:13 PM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greetings:

<= u>=C2=A0

This is a WG adoption call fo= r draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/201= 8).=C2=A0 A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/

=C2=A0

Please comment o= n whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help oper= ational management of networks.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Susan Hares =C2=A0

IDR co-chair

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr



--0000000000007faa580577f9e60a-- From nobody Fri Oct 12 01:14:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23E6130E00; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:14:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 39yvAmwQ0Pfh; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 898A9130E01; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6F380CF3FA98D; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:14:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 09:14:04 +0100 Received: from DGGEML510-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.6]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 16:13:59 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaAF5Msjw Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:13:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.194.201] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE2926BDAC7dggeml510mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 08:14:11 -0000 --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE2926BDAC7dggeml510mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, The use case is straightforward, I support the adoption of this document. Best regards, Mach From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:13 AM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE2926BDAC7dggeml510mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= Hi Sue,

=  

= The use case is straightforw= ard, I support the adoption of this document.

=  

= Best regards,

= Mach

=  

From: Idr [mailto:idr-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 05, 20= 18 4:13 AM
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-int= er-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption c= all for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/= 18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as= -topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).  A quick link to the d= raft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-id= r-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-= LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair

--_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE2926BDAC7dggeml510mbschi_-- From nobody Sat Oct 13 09:52:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D65B130E45 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 09:52:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPjjoeGdW6-k for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 09:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7EC2130E3C for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 09:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (vs2.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.123]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9DGqPg1000650 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:52:25 +0100 Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA9022044 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:52:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs2.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8595B22042 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:52:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from 950129200 (4.43.114.87.dyn.plus.net [87.114.43.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9DGqOAQ028540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:52:25 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:52:23 +0100 Message-ID: <017601d46315$1da03a50$58e0aef0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRjExCdekZNTjZsT1KJFQTuCJR/PA== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 87.114.43.4 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24154.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--4.752-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--4.752-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24154.001 X-TMASE-Result: 10--4.752000-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: Vag+r/h5ShTkCW/ps4p3MXBRIrj8R47FQPCWRE0Lo8LdeAKnvBMxfFiA FgKkd7tVSNzKPpEGGoO3B5G+wf8YthFniU+KOwVc5gCHftmwEMJ9LQinZ4QefL6qvLNjDYTwC+C mxfKmwAwUGm4zriL0oQtuKBGekqUpbGVEmIfjf3vDmWHSOM0zBDP+O4Y4qBUV7HEZsjIJUC9vdM qFz9SnmDxQqXSSpxmnuet5r9Bdhvd06cjxY8Ylm1csa0AGV/SbwvwdumFAO/g= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 16:52:29 -0000 Hey all, Did we all give up on draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe? I see from the datatracker that the document completed WG last call with consensus. The datatracker says "Revised I-D Needed - Issue raised by WG, Doc Shepherd Follow-up Underway" Does someone need to prod this along? Thanks, Adrian From nobody Sat Oct 13 10:30:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B86D130E3C for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 10:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uj1Yhhe6IqUu for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 10:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30C77130E2F for ; 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13 Oct 2018 17:30:52 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9DHUqGk028434 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:30:52 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 13:30:51 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 13:30:51 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe Thread-Index: AdRjExCdekZNTjZsT1KJFQTuCJR/PAAB2yAA Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 17:30:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <017601d46315$1da03a50$58e0aef0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <017601d46315$1da03a50$58e0aef0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.197] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:02:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153948617297.12353.15255978221328257764@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:02:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-05.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 03:02:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Distribution of TRILL Link-State using BGP Authors : Donald E. Eastlake Weiguo Hao Yizhou Li Sujay Gupta Muhammad Durrani Filename : draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-05.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2018-10-13 Abstract: This draft describes a TRILL link state and MAC address reachability information distribution mechanism using a BGP LS extension. External components such as an SDN Controller can use the information for topology visibility, troubleshooting, network automation, and the like. This document updates RFC 7752. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-ls-trill-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Oct 13 20:33:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70041127333 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.351, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-kK_UEfVAXZ for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FA4112008A for ; 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Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:38:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 277B322032; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:38:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from 950129200 (4.43.114.87.dyn.plus.net [87.114.43.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9ELcR4v031375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:38:28 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , References: <017601d46315$1da03a50$58e0aef0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:38:25 +0100 Message-ID: <024e01d46406$3d72c4a0$b8584de0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJLru4RPXfh3eu66TTwog9Uin3y0AGAIRo7Ap659rKkD7eDMA== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 87.114.43.4 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24156.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--21.770-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--21.770-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24156.003 X-TMASE-Result: 10--21.769700-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: +f/wAVSGjujxIbpQ8BhdbBiTH2TyLmz+ju+GX08gELDjsTquy0JRi3kv YGlzSDgVTWLw2jvbfpwxmw7MTKG2g+lkDZgR7xcBlVHM/F6YkvS1k3bRIdXVNJ0j8OKRnVQ8cfI Onh+76Cp/y6WhqEMIQq8f1rOp9IvdtPyViaiKKqZT46Ow+EhYOFF5adRR2Ej1ayjbe4qUImNEhf fnyBqHHwWry1V/GQI7J5vIy/LbweppA8fHdhu85ozb2GR6Ttd3zXOot9n7ZXyxvbNB2FhpUl3wg 6XRlM0sj1mbw6/tKmvPNTb4wusNVF8Mpa8//hADngIgpj8eDcCcIZLVZAQa0I7xHquoAJGGBXW7 Bvonl8cLbigRnpKlKSBuGJWwgxArFnn7zLfna4I= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:38:37 -0000 Ketan, Acee, That's much appreciated (both the response and the work). Good to see this move along. Cheers, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] > Sent: 14 October 2018 04:33 > To: Acee Lindem (acee); adrian@olddog.co.uk; idr@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe >=20 > Ack - it is being reviewed amongst the co-authors/contributors and = plan to post it > on Monday. >=20 > Thanks, > Ketan >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: 13 October 2018 23:01 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; idr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe >=20 > Hi Adrian, >=20 > You probably saw my response on the SPRING list. Ketan will refresh = the draft > shortly and the next revision will address the Shepherd's review = comments. >=20 > Thanks, > Acee > P.S. I agree that the draft needs to move along - multiple = implementations have > been available for 2 years now. >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 10/13/18, 12:52 PM, "Idr on behalf of Adrian Farrel" = behalf of adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: >=20 > Hey all, >=20 > Did we all give up on draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe? >=20 > I see from the datatracker that the document completed WG last = call with > consensus. > The datatracker says "Revised I-D Needed - Issue raised by WG, Doc = Shepherd > Follow-up Underway" >=20 > Does someone need to prod this along? >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Sun Oct 14 16:36:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C6C126DBF for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 16:36:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e7vIkdP7cBdm for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 16:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2EA41274D0 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 16:36:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=75.121.229.134; From: "Susan Hares" To: , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , References: <017601d46315$1da03a50$58e0aef0$@olddog.co.uk> <024e01d46406$3d72c4a0$b8584de0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <024e01d46406$3d72c4a0$b8584de0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 19:36:25 -0400 Message-ID: <00cd01d46416$b9342f10$2b9c8d30$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJLru4RPXfh3eu66TTwog9Uin3y0AGAIRo7Ap659rICVKjWOqP9M2VA Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181014-4, 10/14/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 23:36:35 -0000 Ketan: I look forward to receiving this as well.=20 Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 5:38 PM To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe Ketan, Acee, That's much appreciated (both the response and the work). Good to see this move along. Cheers, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] > Sent: 14 October 2018 04:33 > To: Acee Lindem (acee); adrian@olddog.co.uk; idr@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe >=20 > Ack - it is being reviewed amongst the co-authors/contributors and=20 > plan to post it on Monday. >=20 > Thanks, > Ketan >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: 13 October 2018 23:01 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; idr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe >=20 > Hi Adrian, >=20 > You probably saw my response on the SPRING list. Ketan will refresh=20 > the draft shortly and the next revision will address the Shepherd's = review comments. >=20 > Thanks, > Acee > P.S. I agree that the draft needs to move along - multiple=20 > implementations have been available for 2 years now. >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 10/13/18, 12:52 PM, "Idr on behalf of Adrian Farrel"=20 > wrote: >=20 > Hey all, >=20 > Did we all give up on draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe? >=20 > I see from the datatracker that the document completed WG last = call with > consensus. > The datatracker says "Revised I-D Needed - Issue raised by WG, Doc = Shepherd > Follow-up Underway" >=20 > Does someone need to prod this along? >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Mon Oct 15 07:27:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A087130E7E; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:27:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.86.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153961364212.19483.2548277592440526076@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:27:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:27:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Route Target Constrained Distribution of Routes with no Route Targets Authors : Eric C. Rosen Keyur Patel Jeffrey Haas Robert Raszuk Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2018-10-15 Abstract: There are a variety of BGP-enabled services in which the originator of a BGP route may attach one or more "Route Targets" to the route. By means of a procedure known as "RT Constrained Distribution" (RTC), a given BGP speaker (call it "B") can announce the set of RTs in which it has interest. The implication is that if a particular route (call it "R") carries any RTs at all, BGP speaker B wants to receive route R if and only if B has announced interest in one of the RTs carried by R. However, if route R does not carry any RTs at all, prior specifications do not make it clear whether B's use of RTC implies that it does not want to receive route R. This has caused interoperability problems in the field, as some implementations of RTC do not allow B to receive R, but some services presuppose that B will receive R. This document updates RFC 4684 by clarifying the effect of the RTC mechanism on routes that do not have any RTs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 15 09:03:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20C1130EA5; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153961943074.18693.13246512320846456696@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:03:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 16:03:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS extensions for Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Keyur Patel Saikat Ray Jie Dong Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2018-10-15 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service-based. SR segments allow steering a flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. This document describes an extension to BGP Link State (BGP-LS) for advertisement of BGP Peering Segments along with their BGP peering node information so that efficient BGP Egress Peer Engineering (EPE) policies and strategies can be computed based on Segment Routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 15 09:11:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0958130EB8; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bqUJDUqrNbBi; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14063130E9D; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=33860; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1539619882; x=1540829482; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=JCutY9zNAQ91mcmu5OuW3Cn7LYe1NATtKOx2abOdwhY=; b=K2wB0hgJLTqaA57sPHDJJEDCyEcW4sjEzQEjLLSrsmMuDNhMngYZZNgw +1ja1AGQi2rHKiVMM6SEhVcTDBsNflBatHBmh5pVFiPbTFKn3M0AJbniJ B9pfZmYrBDhiwbXwEXaQjZ0aW3cZEcCbek55aOoIfX5ah/0MBgUUows82 g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAAARu8Rb/5hdJa1iGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUQQBAQEBAQsBgQxIL2Z/KAqMAYwrgg16h3qOExSBZgs?= =?us-ascii?q?BASOESQKEXSE0DQ0BAwEBAgEBAm0cDIU5AQEBBCcGTBACAQgOAwQBASEBAgQ?= =?us-ascii?q?HIREUCQgBAQQBDQUIgxgBgR1MAxUPp1wzhy4NghMFi0wXgUE/gRKCXTWBJoE?= =?us-ascii?q?wRQEBAQKBPgEBB02FJAKJEoUWVI18ZCAuCQKGU4ZjgxsfgU+EcIZ0gUaBJYd?= =?us-ascii?q?ugSyDKXaITQIRFIEmHTiBVXAVO4JsgiYXEYhKhT0BbwGJKYEfgR8BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,385,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="185599132" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Oct 2018 16:11:20 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (xch-aln-013.cisco.com [173.36.7.23]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9FGBKm7031607 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Oct 2018 16:11:20 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:11:19 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 11:11:19 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe@ietf.org" , "'Alvaro Retana'" , "'John Scudder'" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's report for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-15 (with comments for draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid-25) Thread-Index: AdQFoMYRO6E7cJxkRdioX6NPpOzBrBfAGzMQ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 16:11:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <010201d405a1$8965f120$9c31d360$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <010201d405a1$8965f120$9c31d360$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.42.234] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_db2cb9392b044520b3e1e310f0b4c97dXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.23, xch-aln-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's report for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-15 (with comments for draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid-25) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 16:11:26 -0000 --_000_db2cb9392b044520b3e1e310f0b4c97dXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, Thanks a lot for your review and inputs/suggestions. The updated version of the draft has just been posted to address your comme= nts : https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-= 16 Overview of changes: 1) Added text clarifying on iBGP usage 2) Update text in security considerations 3) Organized the sections a bit and added more text to clarify about wh= ich NLRI the TLVs are associated it (this is independent of BGP Prefix SID)= , and also which TLVs go in the NLRI descriptors and which ones go into BGP= -LS Attribute. 4) Update the manageability considerations to also cover fault handling= and incorporated suggested changes on validity of fields. 5) Editorial comments to clarify further on the following aspects: a. That the draft is about advertising of BGP Peering Segments (define= d in SR Arch) via BGP-LS; not to be mixed with other types of SR segments. b. Added high level overview of what the BGP Peering Segments are and = the primary Central EPE use-case which is the focus of the draft. c. Other clarifications on sub-TLV-->TLV, where they go in, semantics,= etc. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 17 June 2018 00:11 To: idr@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ke= tant) ; 'Alvaro Retana' ; 'John S= cudder' ; Acee Lindem (acee) Subject: Shepherd's report for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-15 = (with comments for draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid-25) Stefano, Clarence, Keyur, Saikat, Jie, Ketan, Acee, and Mach: As the shepherd, I have major concerns, minor concerns, and editorial issue= s. To help move this process along, I've placed my additions to correct th= e minor concerns and editorial issues in a XML file, and given you a diff o= f the changes to -15. If anyone on the list cannot get the XML and PDF, I will post an individual= draft with the corrections. I regret at this point not having a github ce= nter for IDR. Major concerns: 1) iBGP with route reflectors may cause looping problems. The BGP-EPE s= elects a "ships-in the night" approach and you are going against this appro= ach. I've edited the document to highlight the two statements on iBGP. T= hese segments either need to be deleted or the topic needs to be placed out= of scope for the standard. 2) The security concerns section has to be reconsidered and rewritten befo= re it is reasonable to send to the IESG. The RFC7752 was indicated as just information for a centralized controller = on IGPs being passed in BGP so the data could be easily exported. This is = clearly a ships-in-the-night case for the RFC7752. However this extension to RFC7752 specification gathers information by whic= h you will reset the BGP configurations for BGP peer topologies and flows v= ia BGP. Since the days of the ARPANET, a tight loop can cause security pro= blems (unintentional or intentional). Please give this a considered discus= sion within the author team. Our Security ADs have a grasp of large system= s, BGP, and the problems about using a protocol to modify a protocol. Tony Li and Robert Raszuk clearly stated in the draft-ietf-bgp-ls-segment-r= outing-ext WG LC that it was a mistake to allow RFC7752 in BGP, and that th= e SR additions "BGP is a great p2mp transport of routing information and information discu= ssed is used primarily in p2p fashion. So allowing RFC 7752 to go forward j= ust to reuse BGP transport and sessions to carry link state information onl= y delays us to work and widely deploy much proper alternative transport(s)= for those kind of information." See: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19124.html 3) You must specify what the BGP peer should do if it is a BGP-EPE peer an= d it receives both the BGP-LS bgp attribute and the BGP-prefix-sid attribut= e. Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-25 indicates the network should either use SI= D additions for BGP-LS NLRI with the BGP attribute for BGP-LS for BGP-EPE. If this is true, then both specification (draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid-26 and = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16) need to add error handling lan= guage that indicates the reception of BGP-LS attributes with PEER-Node-SID,= Peer-Adj-SID, or Peer-Set-SID in the BGP-LS attribute in a packet means th= at the BGP-prefix-SID attribute will be discard (attribute-discard error pe= r RFC7606). Minor issues: The minor issues are the specification of the error handling in the documen= t. In my understanding of your error handling, there are two types: format= errors and content errors. Format errors can also be called malformed sub-= TLVs in new Sub-TLV fields for BGP-LS Link NLRI (section 4.1) and malformed= TLVs in the link attributes in the BGP attribute for BGP-LS. Content erro= rs are fields which have the right form, but the wrong content. I've added text based on the hints in your documents. To provide easy acce= ss, these are also contained in the XML with a diff from version 15 in a pd= f file. Please review these text additional carefully. Editorial issues: Since the editorial issues for the abstract, section 1, and portions of the= document. I've decided to be efficient and simply provide a diff file and= an XML update for version -15. Thank you for your patience with my slow response on this topic. Sue Hares From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2018 9:21 PM To: Susan Hares Subject: RE: Do you have XML for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-1= 5? Hi Sue, Please find attached the XML for the drafts and thanks in advance for the s= hepherding. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares > Sent: 16 June 2018 04:59 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Subject: Do you have XML for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-15? Ketan: I'm finishing up my shepherd's report tonight on 2 of your drafts: * draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-15.txt * draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt If you have XML for these drafts, I will send you my shepherd updates in th= e XML with a diff. This way if you like the updates, you can choose to jus= t accept them and republish. Cheerily, Susan Hares --_000_db2cb9392b044520b3e1e310f0b4c97dXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Thanks = a lot for your review and inputs/suggestions.

&n= bsp;

The = updated version of the draft has just been posted to address your comments = : https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf= -idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16

&n= bsp;

Overvie= w of changes:

= 1)     Added text clarifying on iBGP usage

= 2)     Update text in security considerations

= 3)     Organized the sections a bit and added more text to clarify about which NL= RI the TLVs are associated it (this is independent of BGP Prefix SID), and = also which TLVs go in the NLRI descriptors and which ones go into BGP-LS Attribute.

= 4)     Update the manageability considerations to also cover fault handling and i= ncorporated suggested changes on validity of fields.

= 5)     Editorial comments to clarify further on the following aspects:=

a.      That the draft is about advertising of BGP Peering Segments (defined in SR= Arch) via BGP-LS; not to be mixed with other types of SR segments.

b.      Added high level overview of what the BGP Peering Segments are and the pri= mary Central EPE use-case which is the focus of the draft.

c.      Other clarifications on sub-TLV=E0TLV, where they go in, semantics, etc.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 17 June 2018 00:11
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe@ietf.org; Ketan Talauli= kar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; 'Alvaro Retana' <aretana.ietf@gma= il.com>; 'John Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>; Acee Lindem (acee) <= acee@cisco.com>
Subject: Shepherd's report for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-= epe-15 (with comments for draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid-25)

 

Stefano, Clarence, Keyur, Saikat, Jie, Ketan, Acee, and Mach:

 

As the shepherd, I have major concerns, minor concerns, and e= ditorial issues.  To help move this process along, I’ve placed m= y additions to correct the minor concerns and editorial issues in a XML file, and given you a diff of the changes to -15.  

 

If anyone on the list cannot get the XML and PDF, I will post= an individual draft with the corrections.  I regret at this point not= having a github center for IDR.

 

Major concerns:

=  

1)   iBGP with route reflectors may cause looping problems.  =  The BGP-EPE selects a “ships-in the night” approach and y= ou are going against this approach.   I’ve edited the docum= ent to highlight the two statements on iBGP.  These segments either need to be deleted= or the topic needs to be placed out of scope for the standard.

 <= /p>

2)  The security concerns section has to be reconsidered = and rewritten before it is reasonable to send to the  IESG.  = ;

 

The RFC7752 was indicated= as just information for a centralized controller on IGPs being passed in B= GP so the data could be easily exported.  This is clearly a ships-in-the-night case for the RFC7752. 

 <= /p>

However this extension to= RFC7752 specification gathers information by which you will reset the BGP = configurations for BGP peer topologies and flows via BGP.  Since the days of the ARPANET, a tight loop can cause secur= ity problems (unintentional or intentional).  Please give this a consi= dered discussion within the author team.  Our Security ADs have a gras= p of large systems, BGP, and the problems about using a protocol to modify a protocol. 

 

Tony Li and Robert Raszuk= clearly stated in the draft-ietf-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext WG LC that it = was a mistake to allow RFC7752 in BGP, and that the SR additions

 <= /p>

“BGP is a great p2mp tr= ansport of routing information and information discussed is used primarily in p2p fashion. So allowing RFC 7752 to go forward just to reuse BGP trans= port and sessions to carry link state information onl= y delays  us to work and widely deploy much proper alternative transport(s) for those k= ind of information.”

See:  https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19124.htm= l

 

3)  You must specify what the BGP peer should do if it is a= BGP-EPE peer and it receives both the BGP-LS bgp attribute and the BGP-pre= fix-sid attribute.  

 

Draft-ietf-idr-bgp-prefix-s= id-25 indicates the network should either use SID additions for BGP-LS NLRI= with the BGP attribute for BGP-LS for BGP-EPE.

 

If this is true, then both = specification (draft-ietf-bgp-prefix-sid-26 and draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segmen= t-routing-epe-16) need to add error handling language that indicates the reception of BGP-LS attributes with PEER-Node-SID, Peer= -Adj-SID, or Peer-Set-SID in the BGP-LS attribute in a packet means that th= e BGP-prefix-SID attribute will be discard (attribute-discard error per RFC= 7606).

 

 

Minor issues:

The minor issues are the specification of the error handling = in the document.  In my understanding of your error handling, there ar= e two types: format errors and content errors. Format errors can also be called malformed sub-TLVs in new Sub-TLV fields for BGP= -LS Link NLRI (section 4.1) and malformed TLVs in the link attributes in th= e BGP attribute for BGP-LS.  Content errors are fields which have the = right form, but the wrong content.

 

I’ve added text based on the hints in your documents. &= nbsp;To provide easy access, these are also contained in the XML with a dif= f from version 15 in a pdf file.  Please review these text additional carefully.

 

Editorial issues:

Since the editorial issues for the abstract, section 1, and p= ortions of the document.  I’ve decided to be efficient and simpl= y provide a diff file and an XML update for version -15. 

 

Thank you for your patience with my slow response on this top= ic.

 

Sue Hares

 

 

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2018 9:21 PM
To: Susan Hares
Subject: RE: Do you have XML for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routin= g-epe-15?

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Please = find attached the XML for the drafts and thanks in advance for the shepherd= ing.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 16 June 2018 04:59
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Subject: Do you have XML for draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-15?

 

Ketan:

 

I’m finishing up my shepherd’s report to= night on 2 of your drafts:

=B7        draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-15.txt

=B7        draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-08.txt

 

If you have XML for these drafts, I will send you my= shepherd updates in the XML with a diff.  This way if you like the up= dates, you can choose to just accept them and republish.

 

Cheerily,   Susan Hares

--_000_db2cb9392b044520b3e1e310f0b4c97dXCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 16 14:18:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74641130E48; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:18:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Yoav Nir To: Cc: idr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:18:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:18:07 -0000 Reviewer: Yoav Nir Review result: Has Nits This is an early review with a specific request to review the Security Considerations section. The draft adds a bunch of TLVs to be sent from routers regarding the link state of the link used for IGP. The draft references RFC 7752 which defined earlier TLVs used to carry NLRI (reachability) information. What I found difficult about both 7752 and this draft is the vagueness about who the consumer of this information is. The abstract of 7752 begins like this: "In a number of environments, a component external to a network is called upon to perform computations based on the network topology and current state of the connections within the network, including Traffic Engineering (TE) information." There is also a diagram with information flowing to a "consumer" and that's it. Is it an SDN controller? Some kind of application? OK. On to the Security Considerations section. It begins with a statement that this does not affect the security model of BGP. Although that is just claimed and not supported in text, it seems reasonable. I should note that this paragraph is copied from 7752. The second (and last) paragraph in the security considerations section talks about the new attributes. It mentions that security and authentication are assumed to be used just as in RFCs 7810 and 7471. With proper authentication this information is not sent except to the proper consumer. However, there is an important difference that I think needs to be addressed. 7810 and 7471 are about IS-IS and OSPF respectively. There routing protocols are typically used in closed environments, and the Security Considerations of 7810 state that explicitly. BGP (the subject of this document) is different in that it is typically used all over the Internet. Without further clarity about who and where the "consumer" is, it has to be assumed that the information might at least leak out. Another issue I have with this section is that the draft specifies how to send new information (the link state TLVs) from one node to another. This is information that was not sent before. When a change like that is made, I think the Security Considerations section should justify why it is OK to distribute this information. Typically you need to justify that leaking this information (to the intended recipient or to the rest of the world) does not (1) make it easier to attack some part of the system, or (2) distributes privacy-sensitive information, or (3) undermines some other confidentiality interest. I think it's fairly easy to make the argument that the information in these TLVs does not do any of the above, but the argument should be made. The last paragraph in the Security Considerations section of RFC 7752 has just such an argument. From nobody Tue Oct 16 16:52:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E04130E63; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YWA_zNzphYLm; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 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"draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppw Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 23:52:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.160.224] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ec43e712e8024930831a206f8e843cbbXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29QbGFpblRleHQiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJj b2xvcjpibGFjayI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb1Bs YWluVGV4dCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImNvbG9yOmJsYWNrIj4mbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgTGVzPG86cD48 L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb1BsYWluVGV4dCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImNv bG9yOmJsYWNrIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4N CjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_ec43e712e8024930831a206f8e843cbbXCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 16 17:59:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78721252B7; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:59:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acjlDJERMSTB; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (m21397.mail.qiye.163.com [223.252.213.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6E9126CC7; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id DEC4E142AB9; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 08:58:52 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Susan Hares'" , Cc: References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 08:58:54 +0800 Message-ID: <010901d465b4$93e90e70$bbbb2b50$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010A_01D465F7.A20C4E70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaAJlQPFw Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kIGBQJHllBS1VLV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWS1ZQUlXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6Nwg6Tgw6DTkKOB4yTENJThwN DT0wFE9VSlVKTkhCTEhMQkhDTUtOVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWVdZCAFZQUJDSUg3Bg++ X-HM-Tid: 0a667f8854dd7f6bkuukdec4e142ab9 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFdHIEFkb3B0aW9uIGNhbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0?= =?gb2312?b?LXdhbmctaWRyLWJncGxzLWludGVyLWFzLXRvcG9sb2d5LWV4dC0wMi50eHQg?= =?gb2312?b?KDEwLzQvMjAxOCB0byAxMC8xOC8yMDE4KQ==?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 00:59:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01D465F7.A20C4E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,Susan and all: =20 Supports for its adoption as the author of this draft. The scenarios illustrated in this draft are common and the extensions described in it are necessary for the operators to accomplish the inter-domain traffic engineering works within their networks. We are also eager to invite more vendors and operators to participate in this work later. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: idr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018) =20 Greetings:=20 =20 This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at:=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-e= xt/ =20 Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of = drafts will help operational management of networks. =20 =20 Susan Hares =20 IDR co-chair=20 ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01D465F7.A20C4E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,Susan and = all:

 

Supports for its adoption as = the author of this draft.

The  scenarios illustrated = in this draft are common and the extensions described in it are = necessary for the operators to accomplish the inter-domain traffic = engineering works within their networks.

We are also eager to invite = more vendors and operators to participate in this work = later.

 

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Susan Hares = [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA10=D4=C25=C8=D5 4:13
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: = idr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: [Idr] WG Adoption = call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for = draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to = 10/18/2018).  A quick link to the draft is at: =

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-= as-topology-ext/

 

Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the = BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of networks.  =

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair =

------=_NextPart_000_010A_01D465F7.A20C4E70-- From nobody Wed Oct 17 06:18:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4F112F18C; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 06:18:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153978231046.27457.7166059851879655638@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 06:18:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:18:31 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules Authors : Susan Hares Christoph Loibl Robert Raszuk Danny McPherson Martin Bacher Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09.txt Pages : 34 Date : 2018-10-17 Abstract: This document defines a Border Gateway Protocol Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding format that can be used to distribute traffic Flow Specifications. This allows the routing system to propagate information regarding more specific components of the traffic aggregate defined by an IP destination prefix. It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet matches the traffic flow filters. The flow filters and the actions are processed in a fixed order. Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses. This document obsoletes RFC5575 and RFC7674 to correct unclear specifications in the flow filters and to provide rules for actions which interfere (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering). Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) application which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of- service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context. Some deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict actions encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Oct 17 11:14:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A794F130E01; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:13:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WAyMLsdB93bt; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com (mail-wm1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 023E6130DEF; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id y144-v6so3146611wmd.4; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Hjz8lH7t8q+vWJyyP9M16xC0rGk2E5tEhPas+tppiA0=; b=s4gppmyOavNNwWiB1cSuOUzCaLgUhSvrk52A+goePytJyAeGA9Lol6HCiP+MyYGaXT KHU3+KyNNz11HcwMxS7y8npzEbeGRGt5T3cQzT8Z8/JaFBOu8uDynxMmQgI8CRiWNMW3 npNoQ03asDQcpqQcWwXhV1P+xEDzTqIEzDXK93ds2FAiUbDHk2DoGpHw4JXdUdA7CDfe xEcAvnmE9Qx0k+oV9RkpAXb3whzTEI0AlJrit4+mQ6/A5EOISYHRlPPlHXuhqDebdFq1 W3GYPHGn0SO4CR1IUsOg82+gKQVhqn/xDV/tcG2cvSyc+Aacv1BaglKS8i2O3CG0AYvx Eprw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Hjz8lH7t8q+vWJyyP9M16xC0rGk2E5tEhPas+tppiA0=; b=VZ4S0XH9PBsP48XMUPUxY2bUoFn3IRpFVX4XmnzEAbEWyfupAzOb7Cen7yl6pUlFlK 6cEL98a9DcNdxgrKpRh8sAuQQddY5P8bkfeGvwhBkakVkx8pggjKeqNHqa4MXUPkMWu7 tV8r58PNucOF3iWRR8ukBbla/mCjlMdsRPKsKu+kr/1dkSjo5iIylS5M2tOgK4HjUiF8 Z9bZ/5dhAHhQ6YwUv0WJrMf4xxwiL9J2QdDfKB1vW2oZdW34QtKotk/oz69TZwPxxYOa K4s8ZL/IY8kXDCZoFulVfgT8A7L8lQLBcZFWo7jIwOvbiEcLjKVzLB3qjgTecVX29Hx1 nUGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiJbuofqtO5onsR7M6qMkAObSAhJf8DtY2SYi52rrWEAEqwHTgs MdNHC6AwOMpJv78EftwtRN0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV6310RL9ndwrenvqsTAgOR2Bf3IxU7Yy1yeElVXLJpeaJ5pwvtSDXRQ1zXtnQi/8cT3kL/J+uw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:ed07:: with SMTP id l7-v6mr3934304wmh.47.1539800031372; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] ([46.120.57.147]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 199-v6sm1505928wme.39.2018.10.17.11.13.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoav Nir Message-Id: <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_08A44EF3-9DA9-4B04-8A18-4A3E07AA7054" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:13:47 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: "secdir@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:13:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_08A44EF3-9DA9-4B04-8A18-4A3E07AA7054 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, Les. I agree that my diagram comment is directed mostly at 7752. However, the = RFCs that we produce are intended to be readable by the general = technical community, not just the experts in the working group. For the = same reason that we are required to expand acronyms on first use, I = think it makes sense for a document that describes new information being = sent to identify the target. I will drop this point, though, because it = is a general comment rather than a secdir issue. I agree about not needing to repeat information that is already stated = elsewhere, but you do need to point to it, as you do with the general = security model of BGP (first paragraph), and as you do with the = paragraph describing how the transport of attributes is secured (second = paragraph). That part is fine.=20 RFC 7810 and 7471 describe the new information to be sent, but they are = about IS-IS and OSPF. The Security considerations section in 7810 = contains the following text: "It is anticipated that in most = deployments, the IS-IS protocol is used within an infrastructure = entirely under control of the same operator.=E2=80=9D and continues to = discuss MITM attacks if this is not the case. Can the same assumption = be made about BGP? That is the part that I think is missing. Either = state that where BGP-LS is used the assumption can be made, or justify = why there is no risk even when the information is propagated to = infrastructure that is not under control of a single operator. The = difference between BGP and either IS-IS or OSPF is not part of those = other documents, so IMO it should be stated here. Yoav > On 17 Oct 2018, at 2:52, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > Yoav - > =20 > Thanx for the review. > =20 > I'll preface my remarks by saying I am a big believer in modularity. = If a referenced document has already covered an issue I strongly believe = we are better off referencing that document than trying to = repeat/restate what the referenced document has said. > There are only two things that can happen when we repeat/restate: > =20 > 1)We are redundant > 2)We introduce ambiguity > =20 > Neither of these is desirable. > =20 > Responses inline. > =20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yoav Nir > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:18 PM > > To: secdir@ietf.org > > Cc: idr@ietf.org ; ietf@ietf.org = ; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org = > > Subject: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > > > Reviewer: Yoav Nir > > Review result: Has Nits > > > > This is an early review with a specific request to review the = Security > > Considerations section. > > > > The draft adds a bunch of TLVs to be sent from routers regarding the = link > > state of the link used for IGP. The draft references RFC 7752 which = defined > > earlier TLVs used to carry NLRI (reachability) information. > > > > What I found difficult about both 7752 and this draft is the = vagueness about > > who the consumer of this information is. The abstract of 7752 begins = like this: > > "In a number of environments, a component external to a network is = called > > upon to perform computations based on the network topology and = current > > state of the connections within the network, including Traffic = Engineering > > (TE) information." There is also a diagram with information flowing = to a > > "consumer" > > and that's it. Is it an SDN controller? Some kind of application? > > > =20 > [Les:] The diagram you are referring to seems most likely to be in RFC = 7752 since there is no such diagram in this draft. > Which leads me to say if you feel this is insufficient then it needs = to be taken up in the context of RFC 7752 - not this draft. > =20 > Hopefully this makes sense to you as well. > =20 > > OK. On to the Security Considerations section. It begins with a = statement that > > this does not affect the security model of BGP. Although that is = just claimed > > and not supported in text, it seems reasonable. I should note that = this > > paragraph is copied from 7752. > > > > The second (and last) paragraph in the security considerations = section talks > > about the new attributes. It mentions that security and = authentication are > > assumed to be used just as in RFCs 7810 and 7471. With proper > > authentication this information is not sent except to the proper = consumer. > > However, there is an important difference that I think needs to be > > addressed. 7810 and 7471 are about IS-IS and OSPF respectively. = There > > routing protocols are typically used in closed environments, and the = Security > > Considerations of 7810 state that explicitly. BGP (the subject of = this > > document) is different in that it is typically used all over the = Internet. Without > > further clarity about who and where the "consumer" is, it has to be = assumed > > that the information might at least leak out. > >=20 > [Les:] I think you have misinterpreted this paragraph. (emphasis added = below) > =20 > " The IGP > instances originating these TLVs are assumed to have all the = required > security and authentication mechanism (as described in [RFC7810] = and > [RFC7471]) in order to prevent any security issue when propagating > the TLVs into BGP-LS." > =20 > What we are stating here is that when the IGP advertisements are sent = the security/authentication mechanisms specified in the IGP drafts = applies. > This is NOT trying to apply RFC7810/RFC7471 to the new BGP = advertisements. > The security issues related to the new BGP advertisements are = discussed in the previous paragraph. > =20 > > Another issue I have with this section is that the draft specifies = how to send > > new information (the link state TLVs) from one node to another. This = is > > information that was not sent before. When a change like that is = made, I > > think the Security Considerations section should justify why it is = OK to > > distribute this information. Typically you need to justify that = leaking this > > information (to the intended recipient or to the rest of the world) = does not > > (1) make it easier to attack some part of the system, or (2) = distributes > > privacy-sensitive information, or (3) undermines some other = confidentiality > > interest. I think it's fairly easy to make the argument that the = information in > > these TLVs does not do any of the above, but the argument should be = made. > > The last paragraph in the Security Considerations section of RFC = 7752 has just > > such an argument. > =20 > [Les:] Security sections in RFC7810/RFC7471 directly address this = point. > WE could repeat some of that here =E2=80=93 but as per my =E2=80=9Copeni= ng statement=E2=80=9D I am reluctant to do so. > =20 > What do you think? > =20 > Les --Apple-Mail=_08A44EF3-9DA9-4B04-8A18-4A3E07AA7054 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi, = Les.

I agree that my = diagram comment is directed mostly at 7752. However, the RFCs that we = produce are intended to be readable by the general technical community, = not just the experts in the working group. For the same reason that we = are required to expand acronyms on first use, I think it makes sense for = a document that describes new information being sent to identify the = target. I will drop this point, though, because it is a general comment = rather than a secdir issue.

I agree about not needing to repeat information that is = already stated elsewhere, but you do need to point to it, as you do with = the general security model of BGP (first paragraph), and as you do with = the paragraph describing how the transport of attributes is secured = (second paragraph). That part is fine. 

RFC 7810 and 7471 describe the new = information to be sent, but they are about IS-IS and OSPF. The Security = considerations section in 7810 contains the following text: "It is = anticipated that in most deployments, the IS-IS protocol is used within = an infrastructure entirely under control of the same operator.=E2=80=9D = and continues to discuss MITM attacks if this is not the case.  Can = the same assumption be made about BGP?  That is the part that I = think is missing. Either state that where BGP-LS is used the assumption = can be made, or justify why there is no risk even when the information = is propagated to infrastructure that is not under control of a single = operator.   The difference between BGP and either IS-IS or OSPF is = not part of those other documents, so IMO it should be stated = here.

Yoav

On 17 Oct 2018, at 2:52, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> = wrote:

Yoav = -
 
Thanx for = the review.
 
I'll preface my remarks by saying I am a big believer in = modularity. If a referenced document has already covered an issue I = strongly believe we are better off referencing that document than trying = to repeat/restate what the referenced document has said.
There are = only two things that can happen when we repeat/restate:
 
1)We are = redundant
2)We introduce ambiguity
 
Neither of these is desirable.
 
Responses = inline.
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:18 PM
> To: secdir@ietf.org
> Subject: Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13
>
> Reviewer: Yoav = Nir
> Review result: Has = Nits
>
> This is an early review with a = specific request to review the Security
> Considerations section.
>
> The draft adds = a bunch of TLVs to be sent from routers regarding the link
> state of the link used for IGP. = The draft references RFC 7752 which defined
> earlier TLVs used to carry NLRI (reachability) = information.
>
> What I found difficult about both = 7752 and this draft is the vagueness about
> who the consumer of this information is. The abstract of = 7752 begins like this:
> "In = a number of environments, a component external to a network is = called
> upon to perform = computations based on the network topology and current
> state of the connections within = the network, including Traffic Engineering
> (TE) information." There is also a diagram with = information flowing to a
> = "consumer"
> and that's it. Is it = an SDN controller? Some kind of application?
>
 
[Les:] = The diagram you are referring to seems most likely to be in RFC 7752 = since there is no such diagram in this draft.
Which = leads me to say if you feel this is insufficient then it needs to be = taken up in the context of RFC 7752 - not this draft.
 
Hopefully = this makes sense to you as well.
 
> OK. On to the Security = Considerations section. It begins with a statement that
> this does not affect the security = model of BGP.  Although that is just claimed
> and not supported in text, it = seems reasonable. I should note that this
> paragraph is copied from 7752.
>
> The second (and = last) paragraph in the security considerations section talks
> about the new attributes. It = mentions that security and authentication are
> assumed to be used just as in RFCs 7810 and 7471. With = proper
> authentication this = information is not sent except to the proper consumer.
> However, there is an important = difference that I think needs to be
> addressed. 7810 and 7471 are about IS-IS and OSPF = respectively. There
> = routing protocols are typically used in closed environments, and the = Security
> Considerations of = 7810 state that explicitly. BGP (the subject of this
> document) is different in that it = is typically used all over the Internet. Without
> further clarity about who and = where the "consumer" is, it has to be assumed
> that the information might at least leak out.
> 
[Les:] I = think you have misinterpreted this paragraph. (emphasis added below)
 
" The = IGP
   instances originating these TLVs are assumed to = have all the required
   security and authentication mechanism (as = described in [RFC7810] and
   [RFC7471]) in order to = prevent any security issue when propagating
   the TLVs into BGP-LS."
 
What we = are stating here is that when the IGP advertisements are sent the = security/authentication mechanisms specified in the IGP drafts = applies.
This is NOT trying to apply RFC7810/RFC7471 to the new BGP = advertisements.
The security issues related to the new BGP advertisements are = discussed in the previous paragraph.
 

> Another issue I have with this section is that the draft = specifies how to send
> new = information (the link state TLVs) from one node to another. This = is
> information that was = not sent before. When a change like that is made, I
> think the Security Considerations = section should justify why it is OK to
> distribute this information. Typically you need to = justify that leaking this
> = information (to the intended recipient or to the rest of the world) does = not
> (1) make it easier to = attack some part of the system, or (2) distributes
> privacy-sensitive information, or = (3) undermines some other confidentiality
> interest. I think it's fairly easy to make the argument = that the information in
> = these TLVs does not do any of the above, but the argument should be = made.
> The last paragraph in = the Security Considerations section of RFC 7752 has just
> such an argument.
 
[Les:] = Security sections in RFC7810/RFC7471 directly address this point.
WE could repeat some of that here =E2=80=93 but as = per my =E2=80=9Copening statement=E2=80=9D I am reluctant to do so.
 
What do you = think?
 
   = Les

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Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Yoav Nir CC: "secdir@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoA== Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:40:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_feec42a72bd64f31afbcb3b340dad52bXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org 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OiZxdW90O0NhbGlicmkmcXVvdDssc2Fucy1zZXJpZiI+V2hhdCBkbyB5b3UgdGhpbms/PG86cD48 L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNw YW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMS4wcHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6JnF1b3Q7Q2FsaWJyaSZxdW90 OyxzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj4mbmJzcDs8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+ DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjExLjBwdDtmb250 LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtDYWxpYnJpJnF1b3Q7LHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiPiZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyBMZXM8 bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_feec42a72bd64f31afbcb3b340dad52bXCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Oct 18 01:36:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D49C12D4E7 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:36:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPPL6qOOSjur for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hated.at (mail.hated.at [IPv6:2001:858:2:8::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A03691292F1 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 01:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 089144208212.atnat0017.highway.a1.net ([89.144.208.212] helo=[192.168.43.10]) by mail.hated.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1gD3nH-0000pX-Mb; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:36:36 +0200 From: Christoph Loibl Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D5294D5E-81DF-4C1A-A9DF-B2347A43FEE4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:36:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> To: idr wg References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:36:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D5294D5E-81DF-4C1A-A9DF-B2347A43FEE4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, > On 05.10.2018, at 11:11, Christoph Loibl wrote: >=20 > I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you pointed out = (see the previous Email in this thread - if I see no objections on the = list). At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects = (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where we are = heading for. As promised, I uploaded a new version of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis (-09) = that addresses most of the minor issues pointed out by Jeffery in a way = posted on the list earlier. Issues that seem to need more discussions = have not been addressed by this new version (I may make a short = presentation on that in the interim next week). Please look into the changes on datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ Cheers Christoph --=20 Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at --Apple-Mail=_D5294D5E-81DF-4C1A-A9DF-B2347A43FEE4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,

On 05.10.2018, at 11:11, Christoph Loibl = <c@tix.at> = wrote:

I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you = pointed out (see the previous Email in this thread -  if I see no = objections on the list). At the same time I am not changing any of the = other aspects (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where = we are heading for.

As promised, I uploaded a new version = of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis (-09) that addresses most of the minor = issues pointed out by Jeffery in a way posted on the list earlier. = Issues that seem to need more discussions have not been addressed by = this new version (I may make a short presentation on that in the interim = next week).

Please look into = the changes on datatracker:


Cheers Christoph
-- 
Christoph = Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 = | http://www.nextlayer.at

= --Apple-Mail=_D5294D5E-81DF-4C1A-A9DF-B2347A43FEE4-- From nobody Thu Oct 18 08:17:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF95E130F0F; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:17:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F1bFz9Bs6A-F; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7312130EAE; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 204589EB8D42A; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:17:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:17:35 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.103]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.193]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:17:30 -0700 From: Linda Dunbar To: idr , shares CC: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Thread-Index: AdRcHk64oDwWdL5oS7q3owhEVwCYaAFj4f8AAVH0KzA= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:17:29 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175BF8@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <009b01d45c1e$9d9d4110$d8d7c330$@ndzh.com> <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD2D0D@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463AD2D0D@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.112] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175BF8sjceml521mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:17:48 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175BF8sjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. Linda Dunbar From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:01 AM To: idr ; shares Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topol= ogy-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Support. Best Regards, Huaimo as co-author From: Susan Hares Date: 2018-10-05 04:12 To: idr@ietf.org CC: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-= ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) Greetings: This is a WG adoption call for draft-want-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-0= 2.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018). A quick link to the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext= / Please comment on whether you feel this addition to the BGP-LS set of draft= s will help operational management of networks. Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175BF8sjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support.

 

Linda Dunbar

&nbs= p;

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.o= rg] On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 10:01 AM
To: idr <idr@ietf.org>; shares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext <draft-wang-idr-bg= pls-inter-as-topology-ext@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-a= s-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018)

 

Support.

 

Best Regards,

Huaimo as co-author=

 

Greetings:

 

This is a WG adoption call for draft-wa= nt-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018).  = A quick link to the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/<= /span>

 

Please comment on whether you feel this= addition to the BGP-LS set of drafts will help operational management of n= etworks. 

 

Susan Hares  

IDR co-chair

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175BF8sjceml521mbschi_-- From nobody Thu Oct 18 08:33:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1D5130E9C for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:33:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44vcjepkcqEJ for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D87F912F295 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3AA47B2E3A611 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:33:16 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:33:17 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.103]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.30]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:33:11 -0700 From: Linda Dunbar To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Request a 10 minutes presentation slot at IDR Interim on 10/26/2018 for draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext-00 Thread-Index: AdRm918/hoL43lu3R/iPU6catOCGcg== Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175C8C@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.112] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175C8Csjceml521mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Request a 10 minutes presentation slot at IDR Interim on 10/26/2018 for draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext-00 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:33:30 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175C8Csjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sue and John, I would like a 10 minutes slot at the IDR Interim on 10/26/2018 for draft-d= unbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext-00 (to be uploaded this weekend). The document defines a new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI in order to advertise a= SD-WAN edge node's capabilities in establishing SD-WAN overlay tunnels wit= h other SD-WAN nodes through third party networks. The goal is for SD-WAN n= etwork to scale, enabling SD-WAN overlay tunnels among large number of SD-W= AN nodes to be established with few provisioning needed. We understand the complication of having a new SAFI. But, the mechanisms described by [draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10] cannot b= e effectively used for SD-WAN overlay network because a SD-WAN Tunnel needs= to be established before data arrival. There is no Routes to be associated= with the SD-WAN Tunnel. There is a suggestion on using a "Fake Route" for a SD-WAN node to use [dra= ft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps] to advertise its SD-WAN tunnel end-points proper= ties. However, using "Fake Route" can create deployment complexity for larg= e SD-WAN networks with many tunnels. For example, for a SD-WAN network with= hundreds of nodes, with each node having many ports & many end-points to e= stablish SD-WAN tunnels to their corresponding peers, the node would need m= any "fake addresses". For large SD-WAN networks (such as has more than 1000= 0 nodes), each node might need 10's thousands of "fake addresses", which is= very difficult to manage and needs lots of configuration to get the nodes = provisioned. In addition, hosts/applications attached to SD-WAN edge nodes can belong to= different tenants, requiring SD-WAN nodes to establish different tunnels t= o different SD-WAN nodes. As shown in the figure below, C1 node alone has t= o establish following SD-WAN tunnels: * two SD-WAN tunnels to C2: one for Tenant 1, another one for Tenant 2, * One SD-WAN tunnel to C3 for Tenant 1, and * two SD-WAN tunnels to C4: one for Tenant 1, another one for Tenant 2, +----------+ +--------+ Tenant 2 | | +----------+ +--------+ | +--------+ | Tenant +--+ | +----| Tenant | | 1 | | | | | 1 | +--------+ | ................. | | +--------+ | +-+-+ +-+-+ | +--|C1 |---+ +---|C2 |-----+ +---------+ +-+-+ | | +---+ /-----+ Tenant 1| / . +-----+ . / +---------+ / . +--| RR |--+ . / +---------+ / . | +-----+ \ . /------+ Tenant 3| | . | Overlay \ . / +---------+ | . | untrusted +--+--+ +--------+ +--------+ | . | Networks | C4 | | Tenant | | Tenant +--+ . | | |----| 2 | | 2 | . \ +---+ +--+--+ +--------+ +--------+ .....+C3 +..........+ +---+ | | =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D | | +--------+ +--------+ | Tenant | | Tenant | | 2 | | 3 | +--------+ +--------+ Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:57 PM To: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Interim on 10/26/2018 instead of IETF 103 Greetings: IDR will have an virtual interim on 10/26/2018 from 10:00 - 12:00 ET instea= d of a meeting at IETF 103. Both chairs will not be able to attend IETF 103. John Scudder let me know = at IETF 102 that he had another commitment. This week I found out that my h= usband will be for surgery during first 10 days of November - so I will not= be able to attend IETF 103. Please send John and I requests for presentations at the interim on 10/26/2= 018. Susan Hares Co-chair IDR --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175C8Csjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sue and John,

 

I would like a 10 minu= tes slot at the IDR Interim on 10/26/2018 for draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-ov= erlay-ext-00 (to be uploaded this weekend).

 

The document defines a= new BGP SAFI with a new NLRI in order to advertise a SD-WAN edge node̵= 7;s capabilities in establishing SD-WAN overlay tunnels with other SD-WAN n= odes through third party networks. The goal is for SD-WAN network to scale, enabling SD-WAN overlay tunnels among larg= e number of SD-WAN nodes to be established with few provisioning needed.

 

We understand the comp= lication of having a new SAFI.

But, the mechanisms de= scribed by [draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10] cannot be effectively used for= SD-WAN overlay network because a SD-WAN Tunnel needs to be established bef= ore data arrival. There is no Routes to be associated with the SD-WAN Tunnel.

There is a suggestion = on using a “Fake Route” for a SD-WAN node to use [draft-ietf-id= r-tunnel-encaps] to advertise its SD-WAN tunnel end-points properties. Howe= ver, using “Fake Route” can create deployment complexity for large SD-WAN networks with many tunnels. For example, for a SD-WAN net= work with hundreds of nodes, with each node having many ports & many en= d-points to establish SD-WAN tunnels to their corresponding peers, the node= would need many “fake addresses”. For large SD-WAN networks (such as has more than 10000 nodes), each node might= need 10’s thousands of “fake addresses”, which is very d= ifficult to manage and needs lots of configuration to get the nodes provisi= oned.

 

In addition, hosts/app= lications attached to SD-WAN edge nodes can belong to different tenants, re= quiring SD-WAN nodes to establish different tunnels to different SD-WAN nod= es. As shown in the figure below, C1 node alone has to establish following SD-WAN tunnels:

  • two= SD-WAN tunnels to C2: one for Tenant 1, another one for Tenant 2,
  • One SD-WAN tunnel to C3 for Tenant 1, and
  • two SD-WAN tunnels to C4: one for Tenant 1, another one for Te= nant 2,

 

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;            =        +----------+

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           +-------= -+ Tenant 2 |

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           |  = ;      +----------+

       &nbs= p; +--------+         =             &nb= sp;   |          = 3;--------+

       &nbs= p; | Tenant +--+        &nb= sp;            = |     +----| Tenant |

       &nbs= p; | 1      |  |     = ;            &n= bsp;    |     |    | 1&nb= sp;     |

       &nbs= p; +--------+  |    ................. | &n= bsp;   |    +--------+

       &nbs= p;             = |  +-+-+        &n= bsp;  +-+-+     |

       &nbs= p;             = +--|C1 |---+   +---|C2 |-----+   &= nbsp;    +---------+

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   +-+-+   |   |  = +---+        /-----+ Tenant= 1|

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   / .    +-----+   &n= bsp;  .       /    &= nbsp; +---------+

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  /  . +--| RR  |--+   .  &= nbsp;   /     +---------+<= /span>

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; /   . |  +-----+   \  . &n= bsp;   /------+ Tenant 3|

       &nbs= p;             = |    . |  Overlay    \ .  &nbs= p; /       +---------+

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;|    . |  untrusted   +--+--+= ;    +--------+

       &nbs= p; +--------+  |    . |   Networks&nb= sp;  | C4  |    | Tenant |

       &nbs= p; | Tenant +--+    . |     = ;         |    = |----| 2      |

       &nbs= p; | 2      |       = .  \ +---+       +--+--&= #43;    +--------+

       &nbs= p; +--------+       .....+C3 += ;..........+

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;          +---+&n= bsp;  

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;|

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            |

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

       &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    |        &n= bsp;      |

       &nbs= p;             = +--------+      +--------+

       &nbs= p;             = | Tenant |      | Tenant |

       &nbs= p;             = | 2      |      | 3 =      |

       &nbs= p;             = +--------+      +--------+

 

 

Thank you very much. <= o:p>

 

Linda Dunbar

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:57 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] Interim on 10/26/2018 instead of IETF 103<= /p>

 

Greetings:

 

IDR will have an virtual interim on 10/26/2018 from = 10:00 – 12:00 ET instead of a meeting at IETF 103. 

 

Both chairs will not be able to attend IETF 103. &nb= sp;John Scudder let me know at IETF 102 that he had another commitment. Thi= s week I found out that my husband will be for surgery during first 10 days= of November – so I will not be able to attend IETF 103. 

 

Please send John and I requests for presentations at= the interim on 10/26/2018.

 

Susan Hares

Co-chair IDR

 

 

 

 

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B175C8Csjceml521mbschi_-- From nobody Thu Oct 18 09:38:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCF812F1AC; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OS5p-fzrBW6g; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 060AC128CE4; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id y16so34428647wrw.3; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:38:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=x3NMtovArgbGxLRrawBrUuXRVNH8pBjbccPJHwgATYE=; b=QyXGI6EjDPXERfmFCvEK6f50+yQztzQlZN9GAUmjJtm6EllLRRUFBbe5Mz1WEx6Dx9 zBo/ehxsrlU43KKEvII2wim/1FV1gSlzJrBdqR6darMSQuobY1m4BXRtsxq2fjOga0Pf PmAgVF97EonrMyC+L97RXlD44qCvJyWf98UFl9f2W+Ts6QmSIxsB2msE0d5eYtQTXAoO qnX+HrKPlhg5zZYKxxEB89aKkyLi8n9Jhw8xeaxb6DMqqepnlbH55lI9htewAACITXEp GDQRY/Opk8UM9NU50cspGlSIhWVHLzXGZBGNnVokppSvRKyXATxgDMZZe23k+pozPL/N nYuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=x3NMtovArgbGxLRrawBrUuXRVNH8pBjbccPJHwgATYE=; b=c0rxRAVbJ8E8tFe78K5UzBTwvPEJSpXb4REjSOfvc2VgYBIlDvNJzT1ETGVquEh8Ol xP8UAPTNz7HiM129q2QCnrHKM+6oW1VEMLEl6PJP/vDdJmUIDvaBH0nHlml2+YIFVvVU Z2vyHjS4KVebXbRKKvk5BpkusLRwjPOhDewrm0hCIL21frY4bpnAcj75575tbqiESNKt H2Uy6qZlYEAoIxc3czQlSuq8Zngp5sRH9qdGsatFypODkxbBF6M2IjTEZQWFmqwgXmr3 7p5gauvCFWSBKhx5Cga5k+9ErpyJRyGc8Libu0aRU75XJS1m196IbnBXLATWE1ZzAgZw G8Jg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojnP+7g3D+vgUrzBUtBPLUjN0Z/HNCmxO2mO3IeGfCg5fBCcEkW yQI66BLd8iooQCtHYfsKDIk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62HhiUQNcBKGbE6nV480GV0+oIm4KjrNVAWIS+httTL3WEYwIl1+4/oQMzsm6B4FP6aF5s0vg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:11c1:: with SMTP id i1mr30179241wrx.310.1539880705230; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] ([46.120.57.147]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j6-v6sm927168wmd.29.2018.10.18.09.38.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoav Nir Message-Id: <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C74AB073-0978-4BDB-88AC-592BDF660B23" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:38:21 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: "secdir@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:38:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C74AB073-0978-4BDB-88AC-592BDF660B23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, Les. I think we are converging, but haven=E2=80=99t converged yet.=20 Here=E2=80=99s what is still missing for me: You are adding some new = TLVs to pass into BGP-LS. Let=E2=80=99s pick one at random =E2=80=94 = the Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth =E2=80=94 as an example. You are = claiming two things about this TLV: That RFC 7752 already has text about sending other TLVs in BGP-LS. That RFC 7810 and 7471 have text about sending Unidirectional Utilized = Bandwidth in IS-IS and OSPF. Both of these are true, but I claim that even taken together they are = not enough. BGP runs in different environments than OSPF, so a statement = that sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth in OSPF is safe is not = sufficient for proving it safe in BGP-LS. Similarly, the fact that the = =E2=80=9CPrefix Metric=E2=80=9D TLV is safe to send over BGP-LS is no = proof that sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth is safe. I=E2=80=99m missing a paragraph making the claim that distributing = Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth (and the other TLVs) over BGP-LS is = safe.=20 Hope this helps Yoav > On 17 Oct 2018, at 22:40, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > Yoav =E2=80=93 > =20 > I think we are converging. > Inline. > =20 > From: Yoav Nir >=20 > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:14 AM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: secdir@ietf.org ; idr@ietf.org = ; ietf@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > =20 > Hi, Les. > =20 > I agree that my diagram comment is directed mostly at 7752. However, = the RFCs that we produce are intended to be readable by the general = technical community, not just the experts in the working group. For the = same reason that we are required to expand acronyms on first use, I = think it makes sense for a document that describes new information being = sent to identify the target. I will drop this point, though, because it = is a general comment rather than a secdir issue. > =20 > I agree about not needing to repeat information that is already stated = elsewhere, but you do need to point to it, as you do with the general = security model of BGP (first paragraph), and as you do with the = paragraph describing how the transport of attributes is secured (second = paragraph). That part is fine.=20 > =20 > RFC 7810 and 7471 describe the new information to be sent, but they = are about IS-IS and OSPF. The Security considerations section in 7810 = contains the following text: "It is anticipated that in most = deployments, the IS-IS protocol is used within an infrastructure = entirely under control of the same operator.=E2=80=9D and continues to = discuss MITM attacks if this is not the case. Can the same assumption = be made about BGP? That is the part that I think is missing. Either = state that where BGP-LS is used the assumption can be made, or justify = why there is no risk even when the information is propagated to = infrastructure that is not under control of a single operator. The = difference between BGP and either IS-IS or OSPF is not part of those = other documents, so IMO it should be stated here. > =20 > [Les:] I agree with this. > If we look at the Security section of RFC 7752 we see a number of = issues discussed. If we were to add the following into this document = would it suffice? > =20 > =E2=80=9CSecurity considerations for acquiring and distributing BGP-LS = information are discussed in RFC7752.=E2=80=9D > =20 > I=E2=80=99d like to point out that this document is just one of many = (existing and yet to be written) extensions to RFC 7752. Given the way = BGP-LS has been defined, every time we define new information to be = advertised by an IGP we have to write a BGP-LS draft defining how that = information is to be advertised in BGP-LS. So this issue is going to = come up over and over. I hope what we are doing in this document is a = good model for Security Considerations in all of these types of drafts = ie., > =20 > 1)Reference RFC 7752 Security discussion. > 2)Reference the relevant IGP RFC Security discussion to cover security = issues specific to the class of information covered by the draft > =20 > What we lack at the moment is #1 above. > =20 > Does this work? > =20 > Les > =20 > Yoav >=20 >=20 > On 17 Oct 2018, at 2:52, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > =20 > Yoav - > =20 > Thanx for the review. > =20 > I'll preface my remarks by saying I am a big believer in modularity. = If a referenced document has already covered an issue I strongly believe = we are better off referencing that document than trying to = repeat/restate what the referenced document has said. > There are only two things that can happen when we repeat/restate: > =20 > 1)We are redundant > 2)We introduce ambiguity > =20 > Neither of these is desirable. > =20 > Responses inline. > =20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yoav Nir > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:18 PM > > To: secdir@ietf.org > > Cc: idr@ietf.org ; ietf@ietf.org = ; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org = > > Subject: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > >=20 > > Reviewer: Yoav Nir > > Review result: Has Nits > >=20 > > This is an early review with a specific request to review the = Security > > Considerations section. > >=20 > > The draft adds a bunch of TLVs to be sent from routers regarding the = link > > state of the link used for IGP. The draft references RFC 7752 which = defined > > earlier TLVs used to carry NLRI (reachability) information. > >=20 > > What I found difficult about both 7752 and this draft is the = vagueness about > > who the consumer of this information is. The abstract of 7752 begins = like this: > > "In a number of environments, a component external to a network is = called > > upon to perform computations based on the network topology and = current > > state of the connections within the network, including Traffic = Engineering > > (TE) information." There is also a diagram with information flowing = to a > > "consumer" > > and that's it. Is it an SDN controller? Some kind of application? > >=20 > =20 > [Les:] The diagram you are referring to seems most likely to be in RFC = 7752 since there is no such diagram in this draft. > Which leads me to say if you feel this is insufficient then it needs = to be taken up in the context of RFC 7752 - not this draft. > =20 > Hopefully this makes sense to you as well. > =20 > > OK. On to the Security Considerations section. It begins with a = statement that > > this does not affect the security model of BGP. Although that is = just claimed > > and not supported in text, it seems reasonable. I should note that = this > > paragraph is copied from 7752. > >=20 > > The second (and last) paragraph in the security considerations = section talks > > about the new attributes. It mentions that security and = authentication are > > assumed to be used just as in RFCs 7810 and 7471. With proper > > authentication this information is not sent except to the proper = consumer. > > However, there is an important difference that I think needs to be > > addressed. 7810 and 7471 are about IS-IS and OSPF respectively. = There > > routing protocols are typically used in closed environments, and the = Security > > Considerations of 7810 state that explicitly. BGP (the subject of = this > > document) is different in that it is typically used all over the = Internet. Without > > further clarity about who and where the "consumer" is, it has to be = assumed > > that the information might at least leak out. > >=20 > [Les:] I think you have misinterpreted this paragraph. (emphasis added = below) > =20 > " The IGP > instances originating these TLVs are assumed to have all the = required > security and authentication mechanism (as described in [RFC7810] = and > [RFC7471]) in order to prevent any security issue when propagating > the TLVs into BGP-LS." > =20 > What we are stating here is that when the IGP advertisements are sent = the security/authentication mechanisms specified in the IGP drafts = applies. > This is NOT trying to apply RFC7810/RFC7471 to the new BGP = advertisements. > The security issues related to the new BGP advertisements are = discussed in the previous paragraph. > =20 > > Another issue I have with this section is that the draft specifies = how to send > > new information (the link state TLVs) from one node to another. This = is > > information that was not sent before. When a change like that is = made, I > > think the Security Considerations section should justify why it is = OK to > > distribute this information. Typically you need to justify that = leaking this > > information (to the intended recipient or to the rest of the world) = does not > > (1) make it easier to attack some part of the system, or (2) = distributes > > privacy-sensitive information, or (3) undermines some other = confidentiality > > interest. I think it's fairly easy to make the argument that the = information in > > these TLVs does not do any of the above, but the argument should be = made. > > The last paragraph in the Security Considerations section of RFC = 7752 has just > > such an argument. > =20 > [Les:] Security sections in RFC7810/RFC7471 directly address this = point. > WE could repeat some of that here =E2=80=93 but as per my =E2=80=9Copeni= ng statement=E2=80=9D I am reluctant to do so. > =20 > What do you think? > =20 > Les > =20 --Apple-Mail=_C74AB073-0978-4BDB-88AC-592BDF660B23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi, = Les.

I think we are = converging, but haven=E2=80=99t converged yet. 

Here=E2=80=99s what is = still missing for me: You are adding some new TLVs to pass into BGP-LS. = Let=E2=80=99s pick one at random =E2=80=94  the Unidirectional = Utilized Bandwidth =E2=80=94 as an example.  You are claiming two = things about this TLV:
  1. That RFC 7752 already has text about sending other TLVs in = BGP-LS.
  2. That RFC 7810 and 7471 have text about = sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth in IS-IS and = OSPF.

Both = of these are true, but I claim that even taken together they are not = enough. BGP runs in different environments than OSPF, so a statement = that sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth in OSPF is safe is not = sufficient for proving it safe in BGP-LS.  Similarly, the fact that = the =E2=80=9CPrefix Metric=E2=80=9D TLV is safe to send over BGP-LS is = no proof that sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth is = safe.

I=E2=80=99= m missing a paragraph making the claim that distributing Unidirectional = Utilized Bandwidth (and the other TLVs) over BGP-LS is = safe. 

Hope= this helps

Yoav

On 17 Oct 2018, at 22:40, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

Yoav =E2=80=93
 
I think we are = converging.
Inline.
 
From: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 = 11:14 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: secdir@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13
 
Hi, Les.
 
I agree that my diagram comment is = directed mostly at 7752. However, the RFCs that we produce are intended = to be readable by the general technical community, not just the experts = in the working group. For the same reason that we are required to expand = acronyms on first use, I think it makes sense for a document that = describes new information being sent to identify the target. I will drop = this point, though, because it is a general comment rather than a secdir = issue.
 
I agree about not needing to repeat = information that is already stated elsewhere, but you do need to point = to it, as you do with the general security model of BGP (first = paragraph), and as you do with the paragraph describing how the = transport of attributes is secured (second paragraph). That part is = fine. 
 
RFC 7810 and 7471 describe the new = information to be sent, but they are about IS-IS and OSPF. The Security = considerations section in 7810 contains the following text: "It is = anticipated that in most deployments, the IS-IS protocol is used within = an infrastructure entirely under control of the same operator.=E2=80=9D = and continues to discuss MITM attacks if this is not the case.  Can = the same assumption be made about BGP?  That is the part that I = think is missing. Either state that where BGP-LS is used the assumption = can be made, or justify why there is no risk even when the information = is propagated to infrastructure that is not under control of a single = operator.   The difference between BGP and either IS-IS or OSPF is = not part of those other documents, so IMO it should be stated here.
 
[Les:] I agree with this.
If we look at the Security section of RFC 7752 we see a = number of issues discussed. If we were to add the following into this = document would it suffice?
 
=E2=80=9CSecurity considerations for acquiring and = distributing BGP-LS information are discussed in RFC7752.=E2=80=9D
 
I=E2=80=99d like to = point out that this document is just one of many (existing and yet to be = written) extensions to RFC 7752. Given the way BGP-LS has been defined, = every time we define new information to be advertised by an IGP we have = to write a BGP-LS draft defining how that information is to be = advertised in BGP-LS. So this issue is going to come up over and over. I = hope what we are doing in this document is a good model for Security = Considerations in all of these types of drafts ie.,
 
1)Reference RFC 7752 = Security discussion.
2)Reference the = relevant IGP RFC Security discussion to cover security issues specific = to the class of information covered by the draft
 
What we lack at the = moment is #1 above.
 
Does this work?
 
   Les
 
Yoav


On 17 Oct 2018, at 2:52, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>= wrote:
 
Yoav -
 
Thanx for the review.
 
I'll preface my remarks by = saying I am a big believer in modularity. If a referenced document has = already covered an issue I strongly believe we are better off = referencing that document than trying to repeat/restate what the = referenced document has said.
There are only two things that can happen when we = repeat/restate:
 
1)We are redundant
2)We introduce ambiguity
 
Neither of these is = desirable.
 
Responses inline.
 
> -----Original = Message-----
> From: Yoav Nir = <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, = October 16, 2018 2:18 PM
> To: secdir@ietf.org
> Cc: idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org
> Subject: Secdir early = review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13
> 
> Reviewer: Yoav = Nir
> Review result: = Has Nits
> 
> This is an = early review with a specific request to review the Security
> Considerations = section.
> 
> The draft adds = a bunch of TLVs to be sent from routers regarding the link
> state of the link = used for IGP. The draft references RFC 7752 which defined
> earlier TLVs used to = carry NLRI (reachability) information.
> 
> What I found = difficult about both 7752 and this draft is the vagueness about
> who the consumer of = this information is. The abstract of 7752 begins like this:
> "In a number of = environments, a component external to a network is called
> upon to perform = computations based on the network topology and current
> state of the = connections within the network, including Traffic Engineering
> (TE) information." = There is also a diagram with information flowing to a
> "consumer"
> and that's it. Is it = an SDN controller? Some kind of application?
> 
 
[Les:] The diagram you are = referring to seems most likely to be in RFC 7752 since there is no such = diagram in this draft.
Which leads me to say if you feel this is insufficient then = it needs to be taken up in the context of RFC 7752 - not this draft.
 
Hopefully this makes sense = to you as well.
 
> OK. On to the Security Considerations section. It begins = with a statement that
> this does not affect the security model of BGP.  = Although that is just claimed
> and not supported in text, it seems reasonable. I should = note that this
> paragraph is copied from 7752.
> 
> The second (and = last) paragraph in the security considerations section talks
> about the new = attributes. It mentions that security and authentication are
> assumed to be used = just as in RFCs 7810 and 7471. With proper
> authentication this = information is not sent except to the proper consumer.
> However, there is an = important difference that I think needs to be
> addressed. 7810 and = 7471 are about IS-IS and OSPF respectively. There
> routing protocols are = typically used in closed environments, and the Security
> Considerations of = 7810 state that explicitly. BGP (the subject of this
> document) is = different in that it is typically used all over the Internet. = Without
> further clarity = about who and where the "consumer" is, it has to be assumed
> that the information = might at least leak out.
> 
[Les:] I think you have misinterpreted this paragraph. = (emphasis added below)
 
" = The IGP
   = instances originating these TLVs are assumed to have all the = required
   = security and authentication mechanism (as described in [RFC7810] and
   [RFC7471]) in = order to prevent any security issue when propagating
   the TLVs into BGP-LS."
 
What we are stating here = is that when the IGP advertisements are sent the security/authentication = mechanisms specified in the IGP drafts applies.
This is NOT trying to = apply RFC7810/RFC7471 to the new BGP advertisements.
The security issues = related to the new BGP advertisements are discussed in the previous = paragraph.
 
> Another issue I have = with this section is that the draft specifies how to send
> new information (the = link state TLVs) from one node to another. This is
> information that was = not sent before. When a change like that is made, I
> think the Security = Considerations section should justify why it is OK to
> distribute this = information. Typically you need to justify that leaking this
> information (to the = intended recipient or to the rest of the world) does not
> (1) make it easier to = attack some part of the system, or (2) distributes
> privacy-sensitive = information, or (3) undermines some other confidentiality
> interest. I think = it's fairly easy to make the argument that the information in
> these TLVs does not = do any of the above, but the argument should be made.
> The last paragraph in = the Security Considerations section of RFC 7752 has just
> such an argument.
 
[Les:] Security sections in = RFC7810/RFC7471 directly address this point.
WE could repeat some of = that here =E2=80=93 but as per my =E2=80=9Copening statement=E2=80=9D I = am reluctant to do so.
 
What do you think?
 
   Les
 
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(ginsberg)" To: Yoav Nir CC: "secdir@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8A= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:00:13 +0000 Message-ID: <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.11, xch-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com 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--_000_92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0XCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Oct 18 15:14:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCCE130E23 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:14:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GqcOJxbZ--JT for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EB16130E22 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:14:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:14:27 -0400 Message-ID: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4670E.68C326D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRnKSodW3gIUcSqQHmjCkh4NO2T+A== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181018-8, 10/18/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:14:40 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4670E.68C326D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. Susan ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4670E.68C326D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

This version = of the draft fixes a number of the error

However, a few of my comments were not addressed. =

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and = 9.

I’d like to resolve these = quickly.  I working the weekend.

 

Susan =

 

---------

 

1)      = Section 4.4 flag field = under figure 2.

Please provide a = name for the “other bits” in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2. =   Also please

put a figure = number with the flag field.

 

Tightening = this text will reduce the number

of = questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

2)      = Section = 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I = believe you

should replace this with = “Early allocation by IANA”.   =  

Your section should have a = note that this is replaced

by the = phrase “IANA assigned”.

 

3) =  Section 9

 

Technical = concern 1:

Syntactic check are = specified,

and it is clearly stated = that the consumer

of the information = must do the

the semantic/content = checking errors are

 

This is a = good step forward.  

 

What is not = specified here is what happens

when = there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens = if the

Consumer detects an = semantic/content error.

Will the = consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1)      = Dropped silently, =

2)      = Dropped and an error = message

Placed in the log,

3)      = Drop the = session

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 =

applying to this draft.  =

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must =

be included in this section. =  

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality =

Is a capability that can provide = looping or

mis-routing of = traffic.  

 

This is an = improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?  =  

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein = augment the existing

topology = information…”

 

How about =

“The new protocol extensions = introduced described in this document

augment the existing topology information” =

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to = stumble.  Your previous text was better.

 

Susan =  

------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4670E.68C326D0-- From nobody Thu Oct 18 17:26:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059CC129AB8; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <0nrEwSkd_KCU> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char 9C hex): Received: ...s kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)\n\t\234by outgoing.mit[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0nrEwSkd_KCU; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu [18.9.25.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 830B2130DE7; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1209190e-fe5ff70000007a81-27-5bc924c8d647 Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 8D.81.31361.9C429CB5; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:26:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w9J0Qldd020739; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:26:47 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) œby outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9J0Qg2g010254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:26:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:26:42 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: Yoav Nir , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "secdir@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrEKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrXtS5WS0wb4/IhbH1t5gtdjwZyO7 xavbz5gsnm2cz2LxYeFDFoulxz4wObB5TPm9kdVj56y77B5LlvxkCmCO4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL 4Mo4vaqi4HBcxbobn9gaGJf5dDFyckgImEjMeNPC2sXIxSEksIZJ4seCi2wgCSGBjYwS9/9U QCTuMkmc/nYSLMEioCox7eUbZhCbTUBFoqH7MpDNwSEiYCSx+Lk2SD2zwGdGifMbVzOCxIUF PCT23tEBKecFWtbw9T87xMxbTBJfPz5lh0gISpyc+YQFxGYWUJf4M+8S2ExmAWmJ5f84IMLy Es1bZ4Ot5RRwlWjY8gDMFhVQltjbd4h9AqPgLCSTZiGZNAth0iwkkxYwsqxilE3JrdLNTczM KU5N1i1OTszLSy3SNdbLzSzRS00p3cQIjgJJvh2Mkxq8DzEKcDAq8fAWHD0RLcSaWFZcmXuI UZKDSUmU10PxZLQQX1J+SmVGYnFGfFFpTmrxIUYJDmYlEd6v24HKeVMSK6tSi/JhUtIcLEri vBNaFkcLCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZGU4OJQkeI8oAw0VLEpNT61Iy8wpQUgzcXCCDOcBGh4DUsNb XJCYW5yZDpE/xWjJ0bHw/3Rmjran12cwc3SASCGWvPy8VClx3uUgDQIgDRmleXAzQUlNInt/ zStGcaAXhXmXgFTxABMi3NRXQAuZgBaeMAX5prgkESEl1cDoKDUrvPLi5rsH13pNFl02qcrB Q7H/a8/c/GnqHdH96eesvKw8zi5/qaiVcujfi11OAh8XFn2Z/cho7wahW8sXq/BJXVX6d0Do cuinqduk44IyuiSPV35XjlpVeKajIUjGca0714Vj8sJCPm5SbIFvDhX2hIrVKzbNMYrO9jwd Zllb5hlQ0KvEUpyRaKjFXFScCAC/Ki3DRQMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:26:56 -0000 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav – > > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: > > From RFC7810 > > “The sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.†> > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 – most relevant is: > > “Additionally, it may be considered that the export of link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.†> > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are not altered by adding some new TLVs – and since the IGP RFCs have already covered risks associated with the specific class of information (not simply the risks associated with the transport mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben > > ??? > > Les > > > From: Yoav Nir > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 9:38 AM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Cc: secdir@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > Hi, Les. > > I think we are converging, but haven’t converged yet. > > Here’s what is still missing for me: You are adding some new TLVs to pass into BGP-LS. Let’s pick one at random — the Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth — as an example. You are claiming two things about this TLV: > > 1. That RFC 7752 already has text about sending other TLVs in BGP-LS. > 2. That RFC 7810 and 7471 have text about sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth in IS-IS and OSPF. > > Both of these are true, but I claim that even taken together they are not enough. BGP runs in different environments than OSPF, so a statement that sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth in OSPF is safe is not sufficient for proving it safe in BGP-LS. Similarly, the fact that the “Prefix Metric†TLV is safe to send over BGP-LS is no proof that sending Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth is safe. > > I’m missing a paragraph making the claim that distributing Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth (and the other TLVs) over BGP-LS is safe. > > Hope this helps > > Yoav > > > On 17 Oct 2018, at 22:40, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > Yoav – > > I think we are converging. > Inline. > > From: Yoav Nir > > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:14 AM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: secdir@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > Hi, Les. > > I agree that my diagram comment is directed mostly at 7752. However, the RFCs that we produce are intended to be readable by the general technical community, not just the experts in the working group. For the same reason that we are required to expand acronyms on first use, I think it makes sense for a document that describes new information being sent to identify the target. I will drop this point, though, because it is a general comment rather than a secdir issue. > > I agree about not needing to repeat information that is already stated elsewhere, but you do need to point to it, as you do with the general security model of BGP (first paragraph), and as you do with the paragraph describing how the transport of attributes is secured (second paragraph). That part is fine. > > RFC 7810 and 7471 describe the new information to be sent, but they are about IS-IS and OSPF. The Security considerations section in 7810 contains the following text: "It is anticipated that in most deployments, the IS-IS protocol is used within an infrastructure entirely under control of the same operator.†and continues to discuss MITM attacks if this is not the case. Can the same assumption be made about BGP? That is the part that I think is missing. Either state that where BGP-LS is used the assumption can be made, or justify why there is no risk even when the information is propagated to infrastructure that is not under control of a single operator. The difference between BGP and either IS-IS or OSPF is not part of those other documents, so IMO it should be stated here. > > [Les:] I agree with this. > If we look at the Security section of RFC 7752 we see a number of issues discussed. If we were to add the following into this document would it suffice? > > “Security considerations for acquiring and distributing BGP-LS information are discussed in RFC7752.†> > I’d like to point out that this document is just one of many (existing and yet to be written) extensions to RFC 7752. Given the way BGP-LS has been defined, every time we define new information to be advertised by an IGP we have to write a BGP-LS draft defining how that information is to be advertised in BGP-LS. So this issue is going to come up over and over. I hope what we are doing in this document is a good model for Security Considerations in all of these types of drafts ie., > > 1)Reference RFC 7752 Security discussion. > 2)Reference the relevant IGP RFC Security discussion to cover security issues specific to the class of information covered by the draft > > What we lack at the moment is #1 above. > > Does this work? > > Les > > Yoav > > > > On 17 Oct 2018, at 2:52, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > Yoav - > > Thanx for the review. > > I'll preface my remarks by saying I am a big believer in modularity. If a referenced document has already covered an issue I strongly believe we are better off referencing that document than trying to repeat/restate what the referenced document has said. > There are only two things that can happen when we repeat/restate: > > 1)We are redundant > 2)We introduce ambiguity > > Neither of these is desirable. > > Responses inline. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yoav Nir > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:18 PM > > To: secdir@ietf.org > > Cc: idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org > > Subject: Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > > > Reviewer: Yoav Nir > > Review result: Has Nits > > > > This is an early review with a specific request to review the Security > > Considerations section. > > > > The draft adds a bunch of TLVs to be sent from routers regarding the link > > state of the link used for IGP. The draft references RFC 7752 which defined > > earlier TLVs used to carry NLRI (reachability) information. > > > > What I found difficult about both 7752 and this draft is the vagueness about > > who the consumer of this information is. The abstract of 7752 begins like this: > > "In a number of environments, a component external to a network is called > > upon to perform computations based on the network topology and current > > state of the connections within the network, including Traffic Engineering > > (TE) information." There is also a diagram with information flowing to a > > "consumer" > > and that's it. Is it an SDN controller? Some kind of application? > > > > [Les:] The diagram you are referring to seems most likely to be in RFC 7752 since there is no such diagram in this draft. > Which leads me to say if you feel this is insufficient then it needs to be taken up in the context of RFC 7752 - not this draft. > > Hopefully this makes sense to you as well. > > > OK. On to the Security Considerations section. It begins with a statement that > > this does not affect the security model of BGP. Although that is just claimed > > and not supported in text, it seems reasonable. I should note that this > > paragraph is copied from 7752. > > > > The second (and last) paragraph in the security considerations section talks > > about the new attributes. It mentions that security and authentication are > > assumed to be used just as in RFCs 7810 and 7471. With proper > > authentication this information is not sent except to the proper consumer. > > However, there is an important difference that I think needs to be > > addressed. 7810 and 7471 are about IS-IS and OSPF respectively. There > > routing protocols are typically used in closed environments, and the Security > > Considerations of 7810 state that explicitly. BGP (the subject of this > > document) is different in that it is typically used all over the Internet. Without > > further clarity about who and where the "consumer" is, it has to be assumed > > that the information might at least leak out. > > > [Les:] I think you have misinterpreted this paragraph. (emphasis added below) > > " The IGP > instances originating these TLVs are assumed to have all the required > security and authentication mechanism (as described in [RFC7810] and > [RFC7471]) in order to prevent any security issue when propagating > the TLVs into BGP-LS." > > What we are stating here is that when the IGP advertisements are sent the security/authentication mechanisms specified in the IGP drafts applies. > This is NOT trying to apply RFC7810/RFC7471 to the new BGP advertisements. > The security issues related to the new BGP advertisements are discussed in the previous paragraph. > > > Another issue I have with this section is that the draft specifies how to send > > new information (the link state TLVs) from one node to another. This is > > information that was not sent before. When a change like that is made, I > > think the Security Considerations section should justify why it is OK to > > distribute this information. Typically you need to justify that leaking this > > information (to the intended recipient or to the rest of the world) does not > > (1) make it easier to attack some part of the system, or (2) distributes > > privacy-sensitive information, or (3) undermines some other confidentiality > > interest. I think it's fairly easy to make the argument that the information in > > these TLVs does not do any of the above, but the argument should be made. > > The last paragraph in the Security Considerations section of RFC 7752 has just > > such an argument. > > [Les:] Security sections in RFC7810/RFC7471 directly address this point. > WE could repeat some of that here – but as per my “opening statement†I am reluctant to do so. > > What do you think? > > Les > > > _______________________________________________ > secdir mailing list > secdir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir > wiki: http://tools.ietf.org/area/sec/trac/wiki/SecDirReview From nobody Thu Oct 18 17:41:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D601130E99; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:41:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.564 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alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Oct 2018 00:40:52 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9J0eqKP008939 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:40:52 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:40:51 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:40:51 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: Yoav Nir , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "secdir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8CAAMKMAP//rZdg Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:40:51 +0000 Message-ID: <2d123b3a118a4a9ca0023be33af8a067@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D98B130E69; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:59:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char 9C hex): Received: ...s kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)\n\t\234by outgoing.mit[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V49rv8ydJHl0; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 17:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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18 Oct 2018 20:58:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:58:51 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: Yoav Nir , "idr@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "secdir@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181019005851.GY19309@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <2d123b3a118a4a9ca0023be33af8a067@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2d123b3a118a4a9ca0023be33af8a067@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrLKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrBusczLaoP2HisWxtTdYLTb82chu 8er2MyaLZxvns1h8WPiQxWLpsQ9MDmweU35vZPXYOesuu8eSJT+ZApijuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0S 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List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:59:05 -0000 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:40:51AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Ben - > > Inline. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Kaduk > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 5:27 PM > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: Yoav Nir ; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr- > > te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > > Yoav – > > > > > > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific information > > covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: > > > > > > From RFC7810 > > > > > > “The sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > > > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could be > > > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.†> > > > > > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS we > > have a number of statements in RFC 7752 – most relevant is: > > > > > > “Additionally, it may be considered that the export of link-state and > > > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > > > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > > > information about the network.†> > > > > > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am > > therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > > > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are not > > altered by adding some new TLVs – and since the IGP RFCs have already > > covered risks associated with the specific class of information (not simply the > > risks associated with the transport mechanism) you are going to have to > > provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is not already > > covered in the references. > > > > My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have > > covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, *under the > > assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and > > administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that > > information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain than > > the one for which the previous analysis was performed. > > > > [Les:] IGP RFCs talk both about the risks associated with the transport (which are indeed bound to a single AS) and the risks associated with the particular class of information. > > RFC 7752 talks about the risks associated with distribution using BGP-LS as the transport and the risks associated with the class of information. > > Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7810#section-11 and https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-8 in their entirety. > > Unless you want to argue that the risk associated with distributing the information defined in this document is qualitatively different than the risk associated with (for example) "Unreserved Bandwidth" defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 I have no idea what to say. You are going to have to help me here. I'm not sure I can commit to that reading list until the document gets on a telechat (this week's is a pretty big one), but hopefully Yoav can work on a faster scale than me. Thank you for the specific references; it does seem like we can converge pretty quickly. -Ben From nobody Thu Oct 18 18:18:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37772130E42; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:18:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PumifZ-x52wg; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 466ED130E2F; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:18:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Benjamin Kaduk'" , "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" Cc: , , , "'Yoav Nir'" , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <2d123b3a118a4a9ca0023be33af8a067@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019005851.GY19309@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: <20181019005851.GY19309@kduck.kaduk.org> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 21:18:00 -0400 Message-ID: <000901d46749$940a6610$bc1f3230$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AGeXQkiAc24RyOjEUaV8A== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181018-8, 10/18/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 01:18:08 -0000 Ben: Thank you for helping this discussion.=20 Sue Hares=20 IDR co-chair -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Kaduk Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 8:59 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = Yoav Nir; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:40:51AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Ben - >=20 > Inline. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Kaduk > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 5:27 PM > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: Yoav Nir ; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org;=20 > > draft-ietf-idr- te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [secdir] Secdir early review of=20 > > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > >=20 > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: > > > Yoav =E2=80=93 > > > > > > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific=20 > > > information > > covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: > > > > > > From RFC7810 > > > > > > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an = operator to > > > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be > > > sensitive and that an operator may not want to = disclose.=E2=80=9D > > > > > > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via=20 > > > BGP-LS we > > have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: > > > > > > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > > > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk = to > > > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > > > information about the network.=E2=80=9D > > > > > > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752=20 > > > I am > > therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully = said. > > > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism = > > > are not > > altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have=20 > > already covered risks associated with the specific class of=20 > > information (not simply the risks associated with the transport=20 > > mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what=20 > > can meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references. > >=20 > > My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs=20 > > have covered the risks associated with a specific class of=20 > > information, *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is=20 > > within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out = > > that the risks for that information may change when the distribution = > > is over a broader domain than the one for which the previous = analysis was performed. > >=20 >=20 > [Les:] IGP RFCs talk both about the risks associated with the = transport (which are indeed bound to a single AS) and the risks = associated with the particular class of information. >=20 > RFC 7752 talks about the risks associated with distribution using = BGP-LS as the transport and the risks associated with the class of = information. >=20 > Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7810#section-11 and = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-8 in their entirety. >=20 > Unless you want to argue that the risk associated with distributing = the information defined in this document is qualitatively different than = the risk associated with (for example) "Unreserved Bandwidth" defined in = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 I have no idea what = to say. You are going to have to help me here. I'm not sure I can commit to that reading list until the document gets = on a telechat (this week's is a pretty big one), but hopefully Yoav can = work on a faster scale than me. Thank you for the specific references; = it does seem like we can converge pretty quickly. -Ben _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Thu Oct 18 23:52:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5247A130E54 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:52:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YwdkHN59bFVh for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82e.google.com (mail-qt1-x82e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D741130DFC for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82e.google.com with SMTP id d8-v6so37180424qtk.13 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:51:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WwH8OjfuRv0fGBwN1/0v32KziOukAfoi2wieokKnTmU=; b=Ngq94Lo0ysAlb971FtGiWp1PswCF3Hc+gHb6yvAyy1HEy/MsC/f9AhytYgDl1CEuSe rKIM/7B0oPjfWu7X5CeDLd8g9n6RBQ4rhaXutzbsh8gIP2r8RmnMkEVV7jz9eJmfGbaX pKMV4fKlx17SxHIna1oVEhw2tPR353+psWF8D5mCN6K0PalVYqcFyP5Dg/oqFPgCTBel lfRoZvda2RKT8NFXPWnc+ac8ml+GtvoGhqB3kPFuk9WwXRz+giQhfQCN8l3Eo/ZiZlAf d5OpyWBxooh5YAyT7yVLPuwFhE6i1A39kKBILg7Cx0C69BGOt+IV00ubn7uy2uWTtzEs W7Qg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WwH8OjfuRv0fGBwN1/0v32KziOukAfoi2wieokKnTmU=; b=s7JHhLDaWYsgSM4KaQnE3Q+LL9E7uKBDpvYC+tiW+eWiX7uVK0Nr0U5RBol1qIc4BV szm3VvwiSLe0gnpsvg+QEDu5xUYWd/z0GXUjlN4WmOXKmSDzkXg1D0pyuDN3scQSyGDS IF2tiKHJyviOtKyZbmhQNBctqik73o6+9ZQu+8nAu1Tvsu4lW3drWNLtFsRUMQiNdQO1 TKHLuL7pzKcX893QXfW7b4rb/VTH1Ip38vTo8SzRk7c8HzVkV8scb4UYj2X/9JCuw/Sn XqO5GHQMiE5FVxG94xX4q+2EhhuZOpbI5z6xD8/PrZmtYRzCIzwCowqzvhWcmIl29ZqT Aleg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfog5hottpKjJCUfFZDONHFMlPF1CvX4K9V4EdcwywVZu5Z5GjHoA 9c5mMzENf2t131j+l90bvlzpNCWBlvXJYTryqimuZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62XMKmVbYSzNY6KrU7dcGlz8ErXY6aJzjbPrzroeh8i0UYsD7YfBq1sDmc8RQo00oPOO6WDgjMf4orffXhfE0A= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:70b:: with SMTP id g11-v6mr31343118qth.219.1539931915154; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:51:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:51:46 +0200 Message-ID: To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, ynir.ietf@gmail.com, secdir@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c80f3005788f567b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:52:13 -0000 --000000000000c80f3005788f567b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Benjamin, Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it. Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more information about the network to the potential attacker makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties. BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says: "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such information." If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document. Kind regards, Robert. On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > Yoav =E2=80=93 > > > > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific > information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: > > > > From RFC7810 > > > > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could b= e > > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D > > > > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS > we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: > > > > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of link-sta= te and > > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > > information about the network.=E2=80=9D > > > > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am > therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are > not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs have= already > covered risks associated with the specific class of information (not simp= ly > the risks associated with the transport mechanism) you are going to have = to > provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is not alrea= dy > covered in the references. > > My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have > covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, *under > the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and > administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that > information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain tha= n > the one for which the previous analysis was performed. > > -Ben > --000000000000c80f3005788f567b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Benjamin,

=
Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regardi= ng this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to= define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that has= already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter Yoav'= ;s remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on RFC7752 and= IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=C2=A0

Sur= e - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more information abou= t the network to the potential attacker makes the network weaker, but the c= ure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce probability of intercepting= new information by unauthorized parties.=C2=A0

BG= P-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice leve= l of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=C2=A0

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require configur= ation; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to ensure tha= t only trusted consumers are configured to receive such information."<= /div>

If someone would be still concerned about configur= ation mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get th= is data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the= scope of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPO= RT community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft (draft-= uttaro-idr-oad-01).=C2=A0

In either case while bot= h of your comments are great they seems a bit late in the game here or at l= east targeting wrong document.=C2=A0

Kind regards,=
Robert.


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000,= Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific infor= mation covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) t= hat could be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.= =E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS= we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of link-st= ate and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TE information as described in this document constitutes = a risk to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensi= tive
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am= therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are= not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs have = already covered risks associated with the specific class of information (no= t simply the risks associated with the transport mechanism) you are going t= o have to provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is n= ot already covered in the references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and
administrative domain*.=C2=A0 Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that<= br> information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain than<= br> the one for which the previous analysis was performed.

-Ben
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Talaulikar (ketant)" To: stefano previdi , "Chengli (IP Technology Research)" CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , SPRING WG List , "draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy@ietf.org" , Robin , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Question: Inconsistency of SR policy structure Thread-Index: AdRndBziOl2h89Q1SVKtaryHB0wLpwALZmiAAApnEPA= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <088015A3-A85F-4086-ADEA-F06A02331740@previdi.net> In-Reply-To: <088015A3-A85F-4086-ADEA-F06A02331740@previdi.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xch-rcd-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Question: Inconsistency of SR policy structure X-BeenThere: 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IG5vdCBhbGlnbmVkLg0KPiAgDQo+IFRoYW5rcywNCj4gQ2hlbmcNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCnNwcmluZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCnNw cmluZ0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zcHJp bmcNCg== From nobody Fri Oct 19 00:30:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F52A127598; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:30:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9MD-G4yww3pE; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03F87126BED; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 00:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B8DF78D7A3E60; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:30:39 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.32) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:30:40 +0100 Received: from DGGEML529-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.70]) by DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::89ed:853e:30a9:2a79%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:30:30 +0800 From: "Chengli (IP Technology Research)" To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , stefano previdi CC: "draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , SPRING WG List , "draft-ietf-idr-segment-routing-te-policy@ietf.org" , Lizhenbin , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Question: Inconsistency of SR policy structure Thread-Index: AQHUZ3hGkijESARPnketDLRnPhFG5qUmKmMg Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:30:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <088015A3-A85F-4086-ADEA-F06A02331740@previdi.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.185.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Question: Inconsistency of SR policy structure X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:30:48 -0000 R2V0ISANCg0KU28gYWN0dWFsbHksIGluIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc3ByaW5nLXNlZ21lbnQtcm91dGlu Zy1wb2xpY3ksIGEgU1IgcG9saWN5IGlzIGlkZW50aWZpZWQgYnkgdGhlIHR1cGxlIDxoZWFkZW5k 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Oct 2018 03:44:23 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 03:44:22 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Thread-Index: AdRnKSodW3gIUcSqQHmjCkh4NO2T+AAWc5wQ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:44:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_f39b5f33c1a34109a34538e7912770fbXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.19, xch-rcd-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:44:28 -0000 --_000_f39b5f33c1a34109a34538e7912770fbXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update. Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bg= p-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did no= t see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that thes= e were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as require= d once you re-confirm. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comme= nt, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just= this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictate= d by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of t= his document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descrip= tor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence= its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result = in only that specific attribute being discarded. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate wit= h the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit= on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology c= hurn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow do= wn convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these a= re not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in= general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and = putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on = the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific= EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the correspondin= g MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic en= gineering over the EPE paths. Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information..." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. Thanks, Ketan Susan --_000_f39b5f33c1a34109a34538e7912770fbXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Thanks = for your comments and please see inline below for responses.

&n= bsp;

I will = post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation.

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org=
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version of the draft fixes a number of the erro= r

However, a few of my comments were not addressed.

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and= 9.

I’d like to resolve these quickly.  I wor= king the weekend.

 

Susan

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. <= /p>

Please provide a name for the “other bits̶= 1; in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2.   Also ple= ase

put a figure number with the flag field. =

[KT] Will update= .

 

Tightening this text will reduce the number

of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

2)     Section 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I bel= ieve you

should replace this with “Early allocation by = IANA”.    

Your section should have a note that this is replace= d

by the phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I look= ed at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml<= /a> for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any “T= EMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were= actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm.

 

3)  Section 9

 

Technical concern 1:

Syntactic check are specified,

and it is clearly stated that the consumer

of the information must do the

the semantic/content checking errors are =

 

This is a good step forward.  

 

What is not specified here is what happens

when there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens if the

Consumer detects an semantic/content error.

Will the consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1)     Dropped silently,

2)     Dropped and an error message

Placed in the log,

3)     Drop the session

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would b= e something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific d= raft):

The handling of semant= ic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its= application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may b= e expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being u= nusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute T= LVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded.

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752

applying to this draft. 

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must

be included in this section.  

[KT] When isolat= ion is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP B= GP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would af= fect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP rout= ing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an err= or notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for = BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some = text like this hear does not seem like a good idea.

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality

Is a capability that can provide looping or

mis-routing of traffic.  

 

This is an improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?   

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text:

Traffic counters corre= sponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indic= ate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring = these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any= , with traffic engineering over the EPE paths.

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein= augment the existing

topology information…”

 

How about

“The new protocol extensions introduced descri= bed in this document

augment the existing topology information”

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to stumble.  Your previous text was bet= ter.

[KT] Corrected.<= o:p>

 

Thanks,

Ketan=

 

Susan  

--_000_f39b5f33c1a34109a34538e7912770fbXCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 06:07:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1AE130DCA for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:07:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cQwABfClxNBR for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6DA5130DBE for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:07:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:06:57 -0400 Message-ID: <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01D4678B.16BE43B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLZPQ4++1BBgrbtubshR8Pyrs5tMQGSbvCJoxBINuA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:07:04 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01D4678B.16BE43B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update.. Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic engineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. Thanks, Ketan Susan ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01D4678B.16BE43B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast = response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: = Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Thanks for = your comments and please see inline below for = responses.

 

I will post = the draft with the updates once I get your = confirmation.

 

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' = <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version = of the draft fixes a number of the error

However, a few of my comments were not addressed. =

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and = 9.

I’d like to resolve these = quickly.  I working the weekend.

 

Susan =

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field = under figure 2.

Please provide a = name for the “other bits” in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2. =   Also please

put a figure = number with the flag field.

[KT] Will = update..

 

Tightening = this text will reduce the number

of = questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue] Thank = you

 

2)     Section = 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I = believe you

should replace this with = “Early allocation by IANA”.   =  

Your section should have a = note that this is replaced

by the = phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I looked = at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-para= meters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not = see any “TEMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an = impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I = will update as required once you = re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards = specified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in = the same registry.

 

 

3) =  Section 9

 

Technical = concern 1:

Syntactic check are = specified,

and it is clearly stated = that the consumer

of the information = must do the

the semantic/content = checking errors are

 

This is a = good step forward.  

 

What is not = specified here is what happens

when = there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens = if the

Consumer detects an = semantic/content error.

Will the = consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1)     Dropped silently, =

2)     Dropped and an error = message

Placed in the log,

3)     Drop the = session

[KT] I would propose the following text (though = IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies = generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific = draft):

The handling of semantic or content errors by = the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage = and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that = an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that = specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be = discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that = specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update = is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no = mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? =  

Please add whether it is silent (no update to = the log) and put this text in.

 

Technical = issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752

applying to this draft. 

 

What happens = if the operators do not

adhere to = the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? = How does the operator

detect the = problem?  A little more must

be = included in this section.  

 

[KT] When = isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the = other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on = one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology = churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and = slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error = notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension = and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with = that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not = seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional = draft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impact =  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take = this approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status = before we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can you get it = done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th. =

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality =

Is a capability that can provide = looping or

mis-routing of = traffic.  

 

This is an = improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?  =  

 

[KT] I would = propose the following text:

Traffic counters = corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router = would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE = path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding = MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic = engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fine = for the MPLS case.

You must add that similar IP forwarding counters = would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

 

 

Editorial = issues:

“The new protocol = extensions introduced herein augment the existing

topology information…”

 

How about =

“The new protocol extensions = introduced described in this document

augment the existing topology information” =

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to = stumble.  Your previous text was better.

[KT] = Corrected.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

Susan =  

------=_NextPart_000_0081_01D4678B.16BE43B0-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 06:25:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB418130F07; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:25:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GcsOIbM30UhF; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31F28130F34; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:25:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:25:42 -0400 Message-ID: <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A7_01D4678D.B53C3AE0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpoyGmy2A= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:25:58 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01D4678D.B53C3AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:=20 =20 I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this draft. = However, traffic engineering information does provide information which = is a tempting attack vector.=20 =20 The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted usage = that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP. Since Spring WG = shows that operators are interested in the extended use, it may be time = to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes care of these = security issues. =20 =20 My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the IESG = and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. As a = WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has these drafts = on WG LC without the extra security. Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I am = working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =20 =20 If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is that = we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and handles = these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking this = issue within the WG.=20 =20 If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and Alvaro = would speed this along, I can set this up early next week. It would be = helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR interim session = on 10/26.=20 =20 Thank you for all your comments.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01D4678D.B53C3AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:

 

I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this = draft.=C2=A0 However, traffic engineering information does provide = information which is a tempting attack vector.

 

The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted = usage that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Since Spring WG shows that operators are interested in the extended use, = it may be time to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes = care of these security issues.=C2=A0

 

My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the = IESG and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. = =C2=A0As a WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has = these drafts on WG LC without the extra = security.

Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I = am working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =C2=A0

 

If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is = that we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and = handles these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking = this issue within the WG.

 

If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and = Alvaro would speed this along, I can set this up early next week.=C2=A0 = It would be helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR = interim session on 10/26.

 

Thank you for all your comments.

 

Sue

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert = Raszuk
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM
To: = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, = Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> = Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In regards to the risks associated with = advertising the specific information covered in this draft we have a = statement in the IGP drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
> =
> =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an = operator to
>    advertise state information of links = (bandwidth, delay) that could be
>    sensitive and that = an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS we = have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant = is:
>
> =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that = the export of link-state and
>    TE information as = described in this document constitutes a risk to
>    = confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially = sensitive
>    information about the = network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as there are references to = both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore hard pressed to understand = what else could be usefully said.
> Certainly the risks associated = with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are not altered by adding some new = TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs have already covered risks = associated with the specific class of information (not simply the risks = associated with the transport mechanism) you are going to have to = provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is not = already covered in the references.

My apologies for jumping in in = the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated = with a specific class of information, *under
the assumption that the = transport mechanism is within a single AS and
administrative = domain*.  Yoav is pointing out that the risks for = that
information may change when the distribution is over a broader = domain than
the one for which the previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01D4678D.B53C3AE0-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 06:37:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58532130EEA for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rj_xY-91IjqP for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B64F130EE7 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id p3-v6so605561qkb.5 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:37:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=68ykAUCdnz0brQt4e6RPr859aWSpSe0SGWiIao07FPs=; b=JyO7TWOvA+3sSQqhvIqrjuWk0Immi5805E9/j6WcjL80gkDD2hkwRxYNpI0AGmPc2k ygIp1kUYzsvmE+OJ5ikjQsKfGoKXqbKZB92Di4LnekiAprJy+WV7CEpVfbHtzUthyXH7 nUOdrXph/1/0bsUSLgBh9S7deRui1KpTb2TdKXWqliuQ6r+BQhHmmH5ugrOT7uBubV+r WizD3bCmMc4yhFQSDIfRR8ZhVOe66fWRfxftD/byBraoAh7Yyr8gHjyJkJzDNgGImHsU mC6kpOpLAfZXdzGcXr78HjVk+Jmu+vZ/ulxmGjHRCthKSp6g/VH98AJHSfTVHaJ5M8HJ tWIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=68ykAUCdnz0brQt4e6RPr859aWSpSe0SGWiIao07FPs=; b=qMFBotaSxY2QWmOIbRNcRZ8YBiRAbWdgn4cReSnGejgMSHTtcSyz52KB88aGVagclG fT+r60jv5JImfWAA5LspWUFD1YpewYmeiKSOMIrc8P7XlyND4Siy118ZGc/ASqc3SM7F Ur/5O7FP1K8+mjzVUphO/nJyPJQO6WFw1iDRRzIDOxc9XTas6bDClVhTV26kR3zVY0p9 b1vH3FK80SY3X8PWncjVuuIrbjvI2h5R91zN/BYTNSFyvkidTnGhbsUN6EpDGYmWFZD+ OJOwgEGEea0vyUL8uwpAQkHQnrkrSyebW4AYzBK7onZhneN1t9/cctM1FbaqiAHfuQmm gIug== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiaAxRbsqvlfl9nL9OtWZWv5JJXOyXgiiyxQQLYOLOmUc/gRqDz PX8Q9LRfOYFx2oxU7AOZ4xiSD16Cpn7tk/rEk1m3PQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63zIZuIpK04odarowp4rW8oGByuGjocBRkJwFMMr8c9gXpbqO8rX/U9uaD6wXNog5W+ZabKn0UhVojXs66i6mM= X-Received: by 2002:a37:694:: with SMTP id 142-v6mr31144359qkg.189.1539956270109; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:37:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:37:34 +0200 Message-ID: To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: ketant@cisco.com, idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000732f5805789502d9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:37:53 -0000 --000000000000732f5805789502d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Sue, > *[KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate > with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors > hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS > topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates > and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error > notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. > However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and > should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that > as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like > a good idea.* > > > > [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as > > this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. > > > > However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft > > at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the > > IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it > > and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? > > We can talk about it on the 26th. > Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ? If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over weekend. If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new TCP port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent from other SAFIs. Ref: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 Thx, R. --000000000000732f5805789502d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,
=C2=A0

[KT] When iso= lation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other M= P BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would= affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should n= ot come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down convergenc= e. The session bring down due to an error notification due to some error in= BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these are not really= specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for = BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some = text like this hear does not seem like a good idea.

=C2=A0

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as <= u>

this problem does impact =C2=A0all BGP-LS.=C2=A0 I like this appro= ach.

=C2=A0

However, if you take this approach we will n= eed to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can forward= the other drafts to the

IESG.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can you spin this draf= t quickly?=C2=A0 I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption= call.=C2=A0 Can you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk ab= out it on the 26th.


=
Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue= or solve it ?=C2=A0

If this is about documenting = obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over weekend.=C2=A0
If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adop= t BGP Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use n= ew TCP port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent f= rom other SAFIs.=C2=A0


Thx,
R.
<= div>


=C2=A0
--000000000000732f5805789502d9-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 07:02:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415C0130F35 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:02:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hgfGMNxcX6Oj for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B811130F63 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:01:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=28931; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1539957712; x=1541167312; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=8ofed93ARRmEsV4Q8k99vdrGeSRcbHkdoOzQ/BZaXeg=; b=mZW5uOt1saSa4eMwKC0eBVUIsA4VvxoQRbTDRv2by5dibaCgrQIGWWoA AhtPgSpNi7Aa26mEwHHxh2vKD9a+HHEQwFYcyN66QeHMS3yOrk/fNdcZU oVsa4x7TC1DF60cjPjbmTmXA6b8mtsf5rHW8zkqCx9KIO08vucRyjAWSa I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AJAABh4slb/4oNJK1aChkBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEHAQEBAQEBgVMCAQEBAQELAYENTSpmfygKmB6CDXqWFYF6CwEBJYR?= =?us-ascii?q?HAoUGITYLDQEDAQECAQECbRwMhTkBAQEBAy1cAgEIDgMEAQEhBwcyFAkIAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?EARIIgxqBHWQPp3aKEwWLTxeBQT+BEYJdNYRTYYUkAohphUkVhXuJfwkCkGI?= =?us-ascii?q?fgU+EcwWIO4EniSONCAIRFIEmJAUsgVVwFYMngiYXfQEJh1WFPQFvAYh3KoE?= =?us-ascii?q?EgR8BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,400,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="468661828" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Oct 2018 14:01:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9JE1nnD008610 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:01:49 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:01:48 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:01:48 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Thread-Index: AdRnKSodW3gIUcSqQHmjCkh4NO2T+AAWc5wQABTjX4AACOlIEA== Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:01:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a4940330fe4243ed94ca6ddd899c6187XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.19, xch-aln-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:02:11 -0000 --_000_a4940330fe4243ed94ca6ddd899c6187XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, Please check inline below. I will post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' > Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update.. Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bg= p-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did no= t see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that thes= e were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as require= d once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. [KT] Done. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comme= nt, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just= this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictate= d by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of t= his document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descrip= tor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence= its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result = in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in= . [KT] With logging and updated the text. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate wit= h the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit= on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology c= hurn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow do= wn convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these a= re not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in= general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and = putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. [KT] I think there are both manageability and security considerations aspec= ts. Do we want to do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspe= cts. There has now been some experience with implementations and deployment= which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure though that it would= be a matter of weekend work :) Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on = the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific= EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the correspondin= g MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic en= gineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. [KT] This draft only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a = separate draft. Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information..." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. Thanks, Ketan Susan --_000_a4940330fe4243ed94ca6ddd899c6187XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Please = check inline below.

&n= bsp;

I will = post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast= response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Thanks = for your comments and please see inline below for responses.

&n= bsp;

I will = post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation.

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@junipe= r.net>
Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version of the draft fixes a number of the erro= r

However, a few of my comments were not addressed.

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and= 9.

I’d like to resolve these quickly.  I wor= king the weekend.

 

Susan

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2.

Please provide a name for the “other bits̶= 1; in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2.   Also ple= ase

put a figure number with the flag field. =

[KT] Will update= ..

 

Tightening this text will reduce the number

of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue] Thank you

 

2)     Section 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I bel= ieve you

should replace this with “Early allocation by = IANA”.    

Your section should have a note that this is replace= d

by the phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I look= ed at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml<= /a> for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any “T= EMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were= actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards sp= ecified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in= the same registry.

[KT] Done.

 

 

3)  Section 9

 

Technical concern 1:

Syntactic check are specified,

and it is clearly stated that the consumer

of the information must do the

the semantic/content checking errors are =

 

This is a good step forward.  

 

What is not specified here is what happens

when there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens if the

Consumer detects an semantic/content error.

Will the consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1) &n= bsp;   Dropped silently,

2) &n= bsp;   Dropped and an error message

Placed in the log,

3) &n= bsp;   Drop the session

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would b= e something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific d= raft):

The handling of semant= ic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its= application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may b= e expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being u= nusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute T= LVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update= is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no menti= on) or will it be flagged in an error log?  

Please add whether it = is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in.

[KT] With loggin= g and updated the text.

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752

applying to this draft. 

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must

be included in this section.  

 

[KT] When isolat= ion is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP B= GP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would af= fect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP rout= ing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an err= or notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for = BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some = text like this hear does not seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional dr= aft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impa= ct  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take t= his approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status b= efore we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption c= all.  Can you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it o= n the 26th.

[KT] I think the= re are both manageability and security considerations aspects. Do we want t= o do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some experience with implem= entations and deployment which would help clarify these aspects. I am not s= ure though that it would be a matter of weekend work J<= /span>

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality

Is a capability that can provide looping or

mis-routing of traffic.  

 

This is an improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?   

 

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text:

Traffic counters corre= sponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indic= ate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring = these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any= , with traffic engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fi= ne for the MPLS case.

You must add that simi= lar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

[KT] This draft = only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate draft.<= /span>

 

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein= augment the existing

topology information…”

 

How about

“The new protocol extensions introduced descri= bed in this document

augment the existing topology information”

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to stumble.  Your previous text was bet= ter.

[KT] Corrected.<= o:p>

 

Thanks,

Ketan=

 

Susan  

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x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" Cc: References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> <51081ED0-640F-48BB-9FB4-15632643E7CD@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51081ED0-640F-48BB-9FB4-15632643E7CD@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:10:41 -0400 Message-ID: <00ef01d467b5$856b4bd0$9041e370$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D46793.FE5BF5C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLZPQ4++1BBgrbtubshR8Pyrs5tMQGSbvCJAgzDW+IBRyvqiwFgyufbouq3jFA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:10:48 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D46793.FE5BF5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Acee: =20 Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:05 AM To: Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Hi Sue, Robert, I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on = the completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I = agree that it would be useful. Thanks, Acee =20 From: Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk = Date: Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: IDR List Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Hi Sue, =20 [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate = with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or = errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that = BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing = updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an = error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a = likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS = extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to = help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear = does not seem like a good idea. =20 [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as=20 this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach.=20 =20 However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft=20 at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the=20 IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it=20 and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend?=20 We can talk about it on the 26th. =20 Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ?=20 =20 If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned = over weekend.=20 =20 If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP = Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new = TCP port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent = from other SAFIs.=20 =20 Ref: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 =20 Thx, R. =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D46793.FE5BF5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Acee:

 

Thank you for your = feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts. =

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:05 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; = shares@ndzh.com
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi Sue, = Robert,

I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the = extant BGP-LS drafts on the completion of this new work improving the = RFC 7752 considerations. I agree that it would be = useful.

Thanks,

Acee

 

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> = on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: = Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM
To: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: IDR List = <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

 

[KT] When isolation is not = followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP = signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would = affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should = not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down = convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of = these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be = documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a = separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a = good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine = way to handle this point as

this problem does impact  all = BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take this approach we = will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can = forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can you spin this = draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can = you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the = 26th.

 

Is your intention to = "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it = ? 

 

If this is about = documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over = weekend. 

 

If this is however about = solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP Transport Instance draft to = WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new TCP port making it at least = at the TCP session level fully independent from other = SAFIs. 

 

 

Thx,

R.

 

 

 

 

<= /div> ------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01D46793.FE5BF5C0-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 07:27:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901E1130E93 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id doA9HOoaYDQ3 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 669A51277D2 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:27:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:27:00 -0400 Message-ID: <012e01d467b7$ccd00d10$66702730$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012F_01D46796.45C32800" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLZPQ4++1BBgrbtubshR8Pyrs5tMQGSbvCJAgzDW+ICBr4kgqLvwLCA Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:27:08 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012F_01D46796.45C32800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: Thank you for the response. See my comments inline (Sue2, red). I think we have convergence on a set of solutions. Please watch for the next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext. It's heading your way shortly. If we could work on getting that draft revised today as well, it would be helpful. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Please check inline below. I will post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update... Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue2] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. [KT] Done. [sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in. [KT] With logging and updated the text. [Sue2] Just add this point and we are good to go. Thank you for addressing this issue. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. [KT] I think there are both manageability and security considerations aspects. Do we want to do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure though that it would be a matter of weekend work J [Sue] Let's start this work. Write the outline of bis change and send me the results. I'll be glad to provide text and review this draft. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic engineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. [KT] This draft only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate draft. [Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. Indicate SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection mechanisms. Thank you for addressing this issue. The second sentence provides a Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. [Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. Thanks, Ketan Susan ------=_NextPart_000_012F_01D46796.45C32800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the = response.  See my comments inline (Sue2, red).   I think = we have convergence on a set of solutions.

 

Please watch for the = next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.  = It’s heading your way shortly.   If we could work on = getting that draft revised today as well, it would be helpful. =  

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM
To: = Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Please = check inline below.

 

I will post = an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions = here.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 18:37
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast = response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Thanks for = your comments and please see inline below for = responses.

 

I will post = the draft with the updates once I get your = confirmation.

 

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: = 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John = Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version = of the draft fixes a number of the error

However, a few of my comments were not addressed. =

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and = 9.

I’d like to resolve these = quickly.  I working the weekend.

 

Susan =

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field = under figure 2.

Please provide a = name for the “other bits” in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2. =   Also please

put a figure = number with the flag field.

[KT] Will = update...

 

Tightening = this text will reduce the number

of = questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue2] Thank = you

 

2)     Section = 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I = believe you

should replace this with = “Early allocation by IANA”.   =  

Your section should have a = note that this is replaced

by the = phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I looked = at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-para= meters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not = see any “TEMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an = impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I = will update as required once you = re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards = specified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in = the same registry.

[KT] = Done.

[sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. =

 

3) =  Section 9

 

Technical = concern 1:

Syntactic check are = specified,

and it is clearly stated = that the consumer

of the information = must do the

the semantic/content = checking errors are

 

This is a = good step forward.  

 

What is not = specified here is what happens

when = there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens = if the

Consumer detects an = semantic/content error.

Will the = consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1)     Dropped silently, =

2)     Dropped and an error = message

Placed in the log,

3)     Drop the = session

[KT] I would propose the following text (though = IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies = generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific = draft):

The handling of semantic or content errors by = the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage = and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that = an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that = specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be = discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that = specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update = is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no = mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? =  

Please add whether it is silent (no update to = the log) and put this text in.

[KT] With logging = and updated the text.

[Sue2] Just add this point = and we are good to go.

Thank you for addressing this issue.

 

Technical = issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752

applying to this draft. 

 

What happens = if the operators do not

adhere to = the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? = How does the operator

detect the = problem?  A little more must

be = included in this section.  

 

[KT] When = isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the = other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on = one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology = churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and = slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error = notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension = and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with = that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not = seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional = draft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impact =  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take = this approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status = before we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can you get it = done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th. =

[KT] I think there are both manageability and = security considerations aspects. Do we want to do a bis draft or just = and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some = experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify = these aspects. I am not sure though that it would be a matter of weekend = work J=

 

[Sue] Let’s start this = work.   Write the outline of

bis change and send me the = results.

I’ll be glad to provide text and review this = draft.

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality =

Is a capability that can provide = looping or

mis-routing of = traffic.  

 

This is an = improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?  =  

 

[KT] I would = propose the following text:

Traffic counters = corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router = would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE = path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding = MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic = engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fine = for the MPLS case.

You must add that similar IP forwarding counters = would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

[KT] This draft = only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate = draft.

[Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. = Indicate  

SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection = mechanisms.

Thank you for addressing this issue. =

 

The second sentence provides = a

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein = augment the existing

topology = information…”

 

How about =

“The new protocol extensions = introduced described in this document

augment the existing topology information” =

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to = stumble.  Your previous text was better.

[KT] = Corrected.

[Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. =

Thanks,

Ketan

 

Susan =  

------=_NextPart_000_012F_01D46796.45C32800-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 07:31:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C645130F03; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:31:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153995947824.6550.6797438271064339339@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:31:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:31:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS extensions for Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Keyur Patel Saikat Ray Jie Dong Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-10-19 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service-based. SR segments allow steering a flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. This document describes an extension to BGP Link State (BGP-LS) for advertisement of BGP Peering Segments along with their BGP peering node information so that efficient BGP Egress Peer Engineering (EPE) policies and strategies can be computed based on Segment Routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 19 07:34:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C10130EB7 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:34:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TvHerbTGuCHD for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D42C312D4EE for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:34:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=34777; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1539959674; x=1541169274; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=6fkDgEx29m0oRrN8AbBMCxFLD44w/MrIBOOB3eNq0YU=; b=hwxyYbnN/ukMqHyG/k+5JCiexOlQhtlDIdb6XAHWOrHNxosesMzB86IW FBvvTsgJiynVqLS7+a17QHCTVSnI7kslrUjlc53klugEEPz9J7EG75/Hc WdCQ6ehyfCpvV7il8D0VA8P+3OBMuxdwj4nCqAJaHqJFGGXtar8VbGRsT Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AJAAAe68lb/4QNJK1aChkBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEHAQEBAQEBgVMCAQEBAQELAYENTSpmfygKmB6CDXqWFYF6CwEBJYR?= =?us-ascii?q?HAoUGITYLDQEDAQECAQECbRwMhTkBAQEBAy1cAgEIDgMEAQEhAQYHMhQJCAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BBAESCBODB4EdZA+oE4oTBYtPF4FBP4ERgl01hFNhhSQCiGkwhRkVhXuJfwk?= =?us-ascii?q?CkGIfgU+EcwWIO4EniSONCAIRFIEmJAEwgVVwFYMngiYXfQEJh1WFPQFvAYh?= =?us-ascii?q?3KoEEgR8BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,400,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="472011860" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Oct 2018 14:34:32 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (xch-aln-006.cisco.com [173.36.7.16]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9JEYWvB012950 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:34:32 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (173.36.7.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:34:32 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:34:32 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Thread-Index: AdRnKSodW3gIUcSqQHmjCkh4NO2T+AAWc5wQABTjX4AACOlIEP//zxMAgABSR5A= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:34:31 +0000 Message-ID: <14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> <012e01d467b7$ccd00d10$66702730$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <012e01d467b7$ccd00d10$66702730$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.16, xch-aln-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:34:38 -0000 --_000_14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, The draft version 17 just posted with all your comments addressed. Note that the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6= -ext and we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due course. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 19:57 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Ketan: Thank you for the response. See my comments inline (Sue2, red). I think = we have convergence on a set of solutions. Please watch for the next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-e= xt. It's heading your way shortly. If we could work on getting that draf= t revised today as well, it would be helpful. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Hi Sue, Please check inline below. I will post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' > Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update... Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue2] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bg= p-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did no= t see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that thes= e were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as require= d once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. [KT] Done. [sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comme= nt, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just= this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictate= d by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of t= his document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descrip= tor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence= its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result = in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in= . [KT] With logging and updated the text. [Sue2] Just add this point and we are good to go. Thank you for addressing this issue. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate wit= h the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit= on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology c= hurn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow do= wn convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these a= re not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in= general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and = putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. [KT] I think there are both manageability and security considerations aspec= ts. Do we want to do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspe= cts. There has now been some experience with implementations and deployment= which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure though that it would= be a matter of weekend work :) [Sue] Let's start this work. Write the outline of bis change and send me the results. I'll be glad to provide text and review this draft. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on = the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific= EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the correspondin= g MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic en= gineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. [KT] This draft only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a = separate draft. [Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. Indicate SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection mechanisms. Thank you for addressing this issue. The second sentence provides a Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information..." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. [Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. Thanks, Ketan Susan --_000_14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

The dra= ft version 17 just posted with all your comments addressed.

&n= bsp;

Note th= at the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext an= d we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due course.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 19 October 2018 19:57
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the resp= onse.  See my comments inline (Sue2, red).   I think we have= convergence on a set of solutions.

 

Please watch for the n= ext review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.  It’s h= eading your way shortly.   If we could work on getting that draft= revised today as well, it would be helpful.  

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Please = check inline below.

&n= bsp;

I will = post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast= response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Thanks = for your comments and please see inline below for responses.

&n= bsp;

I will = post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation.

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@junipe= r.net>
Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version of the draft fixes a number of the erro= r

However, a few of my comments were not addressed.

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and= 9.

I’d like to resolve these quickly.  I wor= king the weekend.

 

Susan

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2.

Please provide a name for the “other bits̶= 1; in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2.   Also ple= ase

put a figure number with the flag field. =

[KT] Will update= ...

 

Tightening this text will reduce the number

of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue2] Thank you

 

2)     Section 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I bel= ieve you

should replace this with “Early allocation by = IANA”.    

Your section should have a note that this is replace= d

by the phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I look= ed at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml<= /a> for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any “T= EMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were= actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards sp= ecified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in= the same registry.

[KT] Done.

[sue2] thank you for addre= ssing these comments.

 

3)  Section 9

 

Technical concern 1:

Syntactic check are specified,

and it is clearly stated that the consumer

of the information must do the

the semantic/content checking errors are =

 

This is a good step forward.  

 

What is not specified here is what happens

when there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens if the

Consumer detects an semantic/content error.

Will the consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1) &n= bsp;   Dropped silently,

2) &n= bsp;   Dropped and an error message

Placed in the log,

3) &n= bsp;   Drop the session

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would b= e something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific d= raft):

The handling of semant= ic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its= application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may b= e expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being u= nusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute T= LVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update= is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no menti= on) or will it be flagged in an error log?  

Please add whether it = is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in.

[KT] With loggin= g and updated the text.

[Sue2] Just add this point= and we are good to go.

Thank you for addressing t= his issue.

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752

applying to this draft. 

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must

be included in this section.  

 

[KT] When isolat= ion is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP B= GP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would af= fect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP rout= ing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an err= or notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for = BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some = text like this hear does not seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional dr= aft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impa= ct  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take t= his approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status b= efore we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption c= all.  Can you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it o= n the 26th.

[KT] I think the= re are both manageability and security considerations aspects. Do we want t= o do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspects. There has n= ow been some experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure thoug= h that it would be a matter of weekend work J<= o:p>

 

[Sue] Let’s start th= is work.   Write the outline of

bis change and send me the= results.

I’ll be glad to prov= ide text and review this draft.

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality

Is a capability that can provide looping or

mis-routing of traffic.  

 

This is an improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?   

 

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text:

Traffic counters corre= sponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indic= ate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring = these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any= , with traffic engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fi= ne for the MPLS case.

You must add that simi= lar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

[KT] This draft = only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate draft.<= o:p>

[Sue2]: State this draft o= nly covers SR-MPLS. Indicate  

SR-v6 usage would need to = define similar detection mechanisms.

Thank you for addressing t= his issue.

 

The second sentence provid= es a

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein= augment the existing

topology information…”

 

How about

“The new protocol extensions introduced descri= bed in this document

augment the existing topology information”

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to stumble.  Your previous text was bet= ter.

[KT] Corrected.<= o:p>

[Sue2] thank you for= fixing this editorial issue.

Thanks,

Ketan=

 

Susan  

--_000_14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 07:40:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952AB130F40 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:40:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fLtlYbQ1HUdX for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4ABC130F81 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> <012e01d467b7$ccd00d10$66702730$@ndzh.com> <14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: <016701d467b9$9f5bc7f0$de1357d0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0168_01D46798.184D0E20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLZPQ4++1BBgrbtubshR8Pyrs5tMQGSbvCJAgzDW+ICBr4kggJH15AdApgsPhiiyMhhkA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:40:20 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0168_01D46798.184D0E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: Thank you for posting the -17 draft. The text has some significant editorial changes. We'll do a 1 week WG review of editorial changes. I will also ask Alvaro to do an early AD review of the changes and the 7752bis issue. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:35 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, The draft version 17 just posted with all your comments addressed. Note that the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext and we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due course. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 19:57 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: Thank you for the response. See my comments inline (Sue2, red). I think we have convergence on a set of solutions. Please watch for the next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext. It's heading your way shortly. If we could work on getting that draft revised today as well, it would be helpful. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Please check inline below. I will post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update.... Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue2] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. [KT] Done. [sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in. [KT] With logging and updated the text. [Sue2] Just add this point and we are good to go. Thank you for addressing this issue. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. [KT] I think there are both manageability and security considerations aspects. Do we want to do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure though that it would be a matter of weekend work J [Sue] Let's start this work. Write the outline of bis change and send me the results. I'll be glad to provide text and review this draft. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic engineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. [KT] This draft only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate draft. [Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. Indicate SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection mechanisms. Thank you for addressing this issue. The second sentence provides a Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. [Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. Thanks, Ketan Susan ------=_NextPart_000_0168_01D46798.184D0E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

Thank you for posting = the -17 draft.  

 

The text has some = significant editorial changes.  We’ll do a 1 week WG review = of editorial changes.  I will also ask Alvaro to do an early AD = review of the changes and the 7752bis issue.

 

Sue =

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:35 AM
To: = Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

The draft = version 17 just posted with all your comments = addressed.

 

Note that = the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext = and we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due = course.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 19:57
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the = response.  See my comments inline (Sue2, red).   I think = we have convergence on a set of solutions.

 

Please watch for the = next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.  = It’s heading your way shortly.   If we could work on = getting that draft revised today as well, it would be helpful. =  

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:02 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Please = check inline below.

 

I will post = an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions = here.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: = 19 October 2018 18:37
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast = response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Thanks for = your comments and please see inline below for = responses.

 

I will post = the draft with the updates once I get your = confirmation.

 

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: = 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John = Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version = of the draft fixes a number of the error

However, a few of my comments were not addressed. =

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and = 9.

I’d like to resolve these = quickly.  I working the weekend.

 

Susan =

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field = under figure 2.

Please provide a = name for the “other bits” in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2. =   Also please

put a figure = number with the flag field.

[KT] Will = update....

 

Tightening = this text will reduce the number

of = questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue2] Thank = you

 

2)     Section = 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I = believe you

should replace this with = “Early allocation by IANA”.   =  

Your section should have a = note that this is replaced

by the = phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I looked = at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-para= meters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not = see any “TEMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an = impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I = will update as required once you = re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards = specified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in = the same registry.

[KT] = Done.

[sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. =

 

3) =  Section 9

 

Technical = concern 1:

Syntactic check are = specified,

and it is clearly stated = that the consumer

of the information = must do the

the semantic/content = checking errors are

 

This is a = good step forward.  

 

What is not = specified here is what happens

when = there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens = if the

Consumer detects an = semantic/content error.

Will the = consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1)     Dropped silently, =

2)     Dropped and an error = message

Placed in the log,

3)     Drop the = session

[KT] I would propose the following text (though = IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies = generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific = draft):

The handling of semantic or content errors by = the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage = and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that = an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that = specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be = discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that = specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update = is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no = mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? =  

Please add whether it is silent (no update to = the log) and put this text in.

[KT] With logging = and updated the text.

[Sue2] Just add this point = and we are good to go.

Thank you for addressing this issue. =

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 =

applying to this draft.  =

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must =

be included in this section. =  

 

[KT] When = isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the = other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on = one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology = churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and = slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error = notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension = and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with = that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not = seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional = draft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impact =  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take = this approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status = before we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can you get it = done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th. =

[KT] I think there are both manageability and = security considerations aspects. Do we want to do a bis draft or just = and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some = experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify = these aspects. I am not sure though that it would be a matter of weekend = work J=

 

[Sue] Let’s start this = work.   Write the outline of

bis change and send me the = results.

I’ll be glad to provide text and review this = draft.

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality =

Is a capability that can provide = looping or

mis-routing of = traffic.  

 

This is an = improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?  =  

 

[KT] I would = propose the following text:

Traffic counters = corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router = would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE = path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding = MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic = engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fine = for the MPLS case.

You must add that similar IP forwarding counters = would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

[KT] This draft = only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate = draft.

[Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. = Indicate  

SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection = mechanisms.

Thank you for addressing this issue. =

 

The second sentence provides = a

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein = augment the existing

topology = information…”

 

How about =

“The new protocol extensions = introduced described in this document

augment the existing topology information” =

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to = stumble.  Your previous text was better.

[KT] = Corrected.

[Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. =

Thanks,

Ketan

 

Susan =  

------=_NextPart_000_0168_01D46798.184D0E20-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 07:41:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE89130F8D for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:41:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EUCq3ZjBFHBN for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3974F130F78 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:41:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> <012e01d467b7$ccd00d10$66702730$@ndzh.com> <14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:41:10 -0400 Message-ID: <017a01d467b9$c7a95100$56fbf300$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017B_01D46798.409A7020" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLZPQ4++1BBgrbtubshR8Pyrs5tMQGSbvCJAgzDW+ICBr4kggJH15AdApgsPhiiyMmiYA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:41:25 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01D46798.409A7020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: One other issue, are we close to asking for WG adoption on draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext? Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:35 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, The draft version 17 just posted with all your comments addressed. Note that the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext and we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due course. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 19:57 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: Thank you for the response. See my comments inline (Sue2, red). I think we have convergence on a set of solutions. Please watch for the next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext. It's heading your way shortly. If we could work on getting that draft revised today as well, it would be helpful. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Please check inline below. I will post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update.... Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue2] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. [KT] Done. [sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in. [KT] With logging and updated the text. [Sue2] Just add this point and we are good to go. Thank you for addressing this issue. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. [KT] I think there are both manageability and security considerations aspects. Do we want to do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure though that it would be a matter of weekend work J [Sue] Let's start this work. Write the outline of bis change and send me the results. I'll be glad to provide text and review this draft. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic engineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. [KT] This draft only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate draft. [Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. Indicate SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection mechanisms. Thank you for addressing this issue. The second sentence provides a Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. [Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. Thanks, Ketan Susan ------=_NextPart_000_017B_01D46798.409A7020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

One other issue, are we = close to asking for WG adoption on draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext?  =

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:35 AM
To: = Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

The draft = version 17 just posted with all your comments = addressed.

 

Note that = the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext = and we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due = course.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 19:57
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the = response.  See my comments inline (Sue2, red).   I think = we have convergence on a set of solutions.

 

Please watch for the = next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.  = It’s heading your way shortly.   If we could work on = getting that draft revised today as well, it would be helpful. =  

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:02 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Please = check inline below.

 

I will post = an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions = here.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: = 19 October 2018 18:37
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast = response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Thanks for = your comments and please see inline below for = responses.

 

I will post = the draft with the updates once I get your = confirmation.

 

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: = 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John = Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version = of the draft fixes a number of the error

However, a few of my comments were not addressed. =

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and = 9.

I’d like to resolve these = quickly.  I working the weekend.

 

Susan =

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field = under figure 2.

Please provide a = name for the “other bits” in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2. =   Also please

put a figure = number with the flag field.

[KT] Will = update....

 

Tightening = this text will reduce the number

of = questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue2] Thank = you

 

2)     Section = 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I = believe you

should replace this with = “Early allocation by IANA”.   =  

Your section should have a = note that this is replaced

by the = phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I looked = at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-para= meters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not = see any “TEMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an = impression that these were actually assigned and not early allocation. I = will update as required once you = re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards = specified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in = the same registry.

[KT] = Done.

[sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. =

 

3) =  Section 9

 

Technical = concern 1:

Syntactic check are = specified,

and it is clearly stated = that the consumer

of the information = must do the

the semantic/content = checking errors are

 

This is a = good step forward.  

 

What is not = specified here is what happens

when = there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens = if the

Consumer detects an = semantic/content error.

Will the = consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1)     Dropped silently, =

2)     Dropped and an error = message

Placed in the log,

3)     Drop the = session

[KT] I would propose the following text (though = IMHO as with the next comment, this would be something that applies = generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific = draft):

The handling of semantic or content errors by = the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage = and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may be expected that = an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that = specific NLRI update being unusable and hence its update to be = discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result in only that = specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update = is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no = mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? =  

Please add whether it is silent (no update to = the log) and put this text in.

[KT] With logging = and updated the text.

[Sue2] Just add this point = and we are good to go.

Thank you for addressing this issue. =

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 =

applying to this draft.  =

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must =

be included in this section. =  

 

[KT] When = isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the = other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on = one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology = churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and = slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error = notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension = and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with = that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not = seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional = draft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impact =  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take = this approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status = before we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can you get it = done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th. =

[KT] I think there are both manageability and = security considerations aspects. Do we want to do a bis draft or just = and update which covers these aspects. There has now been some = experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify = these aspects. I am not sure though that it would be a matter of weekend = work J=

 

[Sue] Let’s start this = work.   Write the outline of

bis change and send me the = results.

I’ll be glad to provide text and review this = draft.

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality =

Is a capability that can provide = looping or

mis-routing of = traffic.  

 

This is an = improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?  =  

 

[KT] I would = propose the following text:

Traffic counters = corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router = would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE = path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding = MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic = engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fine = for the MPLS case.

You must add that similar IP forwarding counters = would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

[KT] This draft = only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate = draft.

[Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. = Indicate  

SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection = mechanisms.

Thank you for addressing this issue. =

 

The second sentence provides = a

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein = augment the existing

topology = information…”

 

How about =

“The new protocol extensions = introduced described in this document

augment the existing topology information” =

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to = stumble.  Your previous text was better.

[KT] = Corrected.

[Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. =

Thanks,

Ketan

 

Susan =  

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Robert Raszuk , "kaduk@mit.edu" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "ynir.ietf@gmail.com" , "secdir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8CAAMKMAIAAa5YAgAAtaFA= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:51:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c22b55313bc54157853d5668a146038cXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, xch-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:51:40 -0000 --_000_c22b55313bc54157853d5668a146038cXCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Um9iZXJ04oCZcyBwb3N0IGFkZHJlc3NlcyBwb2ludHMgSSBhbHNvIHdhbnQgdG8gbWFrZS4NCg0K V2hhdCBpcyBiZWluZyBkb25lIGhlcmUgaXMgdG8gYWRkIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgQkdQLUxTIGNvZGVw b2ludHMgdG8gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlIElHUCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aGF0IHdhcyBub3QgZGVmaW5lZCBh dCB0aGUgdGltZSBSRkMgNzc1MiB3YXMgd3JpdHRlbi4gV2UgaGF2ZW7igJl0IGNoYW5nZWQgdGhl ICBCR1AtTFMgdHJhbnNwb3J0IG1lY2hhbmlzbSDigJMgbm9yIGlzIHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBi 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AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8CAAMKMAIAAa5YAgABuEAD//8RJQA== Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:57:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_b718ffb671c446adb1666ad9f73f4f82XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 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(ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Thread-Index: AdRnKSodW3gIUcSqQHmjCkh4NO2T+AAWc5wQABTjX4AACOlIEP//zxMAgABSR5D//7GuAIAATEAA Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:09:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> <012e01d467b7$ccd00d10$66702730$@ndzh.com> <14d396b500b242a09ad0cc2955cedec0@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <017a01d467b9$c7a95100$56fbf300$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <017a01d467b9$c7a95100$56fbf300$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a95ebbc1e4de4493ac5e5c6521f9b9d2XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.17, xch-rcd-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:09:43 -0000 --_000_a95ebbc1e4de4493ac5e5c6521f9b9d2XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, I believe we still have some work to do on that document before bringing it= up for adoption. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 20:11 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Ketan: One other issue, are we close to asking for WG adoption on draft-dawra-idr-= bgpls-srv6-ext? Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:35 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Hi Sue, The draft version 17 just posted with all your comments addressed. Note that the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6= -ext and we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due course. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 19:57 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Ketan: Thank you for the response. See my comments inline (Sue2, red). I think = we have convergence on a set of solutions. Please watch for the next review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-e= xt. It's heading your way shortly. If we could work on getting that draf= t revised today as well, it would be helpful. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Hi Sue, Please check inline below. I will post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Ketan: Thank you for the fast response. See my comments below. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.tx= t Hi Sue, Thanks for your comments and please see inline below for responses. I will post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation. From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' > Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt Ketan: This version of the draft fixes a number of the error However, a few of my comments were not addressed. Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and 9. I'd like to resolve these quickly. I working the weekend. Susan --------- 1) Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2. Please provide a name for the "other bits" in the flag field in the diagram for the flags in section 4.4 under the figure 2. Also please put a figure number with the flag field. [KT] Will update.... Tightening this text will reduce the number of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers. [Sue2] Thank you 2) Section 8 Where you have "assigned by IANA", I believe you should replace this with "Early allocation by IANA". Your section should have a note that this is replaced by the phrase "IANA assigned". [KT] When I looked at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bg= p-ls-parameters.xhtml for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did no= t see any "TEMPORARY" or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that thes= e were actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as require= d once you re-confirm. [Sue] All standards specified codepoints are early allocation Note the RFC drafts in the same registry. [KT] Done. [sue2] thank you for addressing these comments. 3) Section 9 Technical concern 1: Syntactic check are specified, and it is clearly stated that the consumer of the information must do the the semantic/content checking errors are This is a good step forward. What is not specified here is what happens when there is the semantic/content checking errors (detected by the consumer). State something about what happens if the Consumer detects an semantic/content error. Will the consumers detection cause the Information to be: 1) Dropped silently, 2) Dropped and an error message Placed in the log, 3) Drop the session [KT] I would propose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comme= nt, this would be something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just= this specific draft): The handling of semantic or content errors by the consumer would be dictate= d by the nature of its application usage and hence is beyond the scope of t= his document. It may be expected that an error detected in the NLRI descrip= tor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being unusable and hence= its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute TLVs would result = in only that specific attribute being discarded. [Sue]: When the update is discarded or attributes are discarded, is it silent (no mention) or will it be flagged in an error log? Please add whether it is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in= . [KT] With logging and updated the text. [Sue2] Just add this point and we are good to go. Thank you for addressing this issue. Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752 applying to this draft. What happens if the operators do not adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS sessions? How does the operator detect the problem? A little more must be included in this section. [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate wit= h the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit= on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology c= hurn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow do= wn convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these a= re not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in= general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and = putting some text like this hear does not seem like a good idea. [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? We can talk about it on the 26th. [KT] I think there are both manageability and security considerations aspec= ts. Do we want to do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspe= cts. There has now been some experience with implementations and deployment= which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure though that it would= be a matter of weekend work :) [Sue] Let's start this work. Write the outline of bis change and send me the results. I'll be glad to provide text and review this draft. Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality Is a capability that can provide looping or mis-routing of traffic. This is an improvement over the past statement. How does the operator detect the problem Is caused by BGP-EPE? [KT] I would propose the following text: Traffic counters corresponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on = the router would indicate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific= EPE path. Monitoring these counters and the flows hitting the correspondin= g MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any, with traffic en= gineering over the EPE paths. [Sue]: This text is fine for the MPLS case. You must add that similar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the SR-v6 case. [KT] This draft only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a = separate draft. [Sue2]: State this draft only covers SR-MPLS. Indicate SR-v6 usage would need to define similar detection mechanisms. Thank you for addressing this issue. The second sentence provides a Editorial issues: "The new protocol extensions introduced herein augment the existing topology information..." How about "The new protocol extensions introduced described in this document augment the existing topology information" While "herein" is a part of the English language, it causes many readers to stumble. Your previous text was better. [KT] Corrected. [Sue2] thank you for fixing this editorial issue. Thanks, Ketan Susan --_000_a95ebbc1e4de4493ac5e5c6521f9b9d2XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

I belie= ve we still have some work to do on that document before bringing it up for= adoption.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 19 October 2018 20:11
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

One other issue, are w= e close to asking for WG adoption on draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-s= rv6-ext? 

&n= bsp;

Sue

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:35 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

The dra= ft version 17 just posted with all your comments addressed.

&n= bsp;

Note th= at the SRv6 EPE extensions are covered in draft-dawra-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext an= d we will incorporate all these inputs into it in due course.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 19:57
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the resp= onse.  See my comments inline (Sue2, red).   I think we have= convergence on a set of solutions.

 

Please watch for the n= ext review on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.  It’s h= eading your way shortly.   If we could work on getting that draft= revised today as well, it would be helpful.  

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:02 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Please = check inline below.

&n= bsp;

I will = post an update for the draft shortly based on the discussions here.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 18:37
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for the fast= response.  See my comments below.

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:44 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Thanks = for your comments and please see inline below for responses.

&n= bsp;

I will = post the draft with the updates once I get your confirmation.

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 03:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@junipe= r.net>
Subject: Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Ketan:

 

This version of the draft fixes a number of the erro= r

However, a few of my comments were not addressed.

 

Please address these concerns in section 4.4, 8, and= 9.

I’d like to resolve these quickly.  I wor= king the weekend.

 

Susan

 

---------

 

1)     Section 4.4 flag field under figure 2.

Please provide a name for the “other bits̶= 1; in

the flag field in the diagram for the flags in =

section 4.4 under the figure 2.   Also ple= ase

put a figure number with the flag field. =

[KT] Will update= ....

 

Tightening this text will reduce the number

of questions by implementers and IESG reviewers.

 

[Sue2] Thank you

 

2)     Section 8

 

Where you have “assigned by IANA”, I bel= ieve you

should replace this with “Early allocation by = IANA”.    

Your section should have a note that this is replace= d

by the phrase “IANA assigned”.

[KT] When I look= ed at https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml<= /a> for the codepoints introduced by this draft, I did not see any “T= EMPORARY” or expiry dates. That gave me an impression that these were= actually assigned and not early allocation. I will update as required once you re-confirm.

 

[Sue] All standards sp= ecified codepoints are early allocation

Note the RFC drafts in= the same registry.

[KT] Done.

[sue2] thank you for addre= ssing these comments.

 

3)  Section 9

 

Technical concern 1:

Syntactic check are specified,

and it is clearly stated that the consumer

of the information must do the

the semantic/content checking errors are =

 

This is a good step forward.  

 

What is not specified here is what happens

when there is the semantic/content checking

errors (detected by the consumer).  =

State something about what happens if the

Consumer detects an semantic/content error.

Will the consumers detection cause the

Information to be:

1) &n= bsp;   Dropped silently,

2) &n= bsp;   Dropped and an error message

Placed in the log,

3) &n= bsp;   Drop the session

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text (though IMHO as with the next comment, this would b= e something that applies generically to BGP-LS and not just this specific d= raft):

The handling of semant= ic or content errors by the consumer would be dictated by the nature of its= application usage and hence is beyond the scope of this document. It may b= e expected that an error detected in the NLRI descriptor TLVs would result in that specific NLRI update being u= nusable and hence its update to be discarded. While an error in Attribute T= LVs would result in only that specific attribute being discarded.

 

[Sue]: When the update= is discarded or attributes are discarded,

is it silent (no menti= on) or will it be flagged in an error log?  

Please add whether it = is silent (no update to the log) and put this text in.

[KT] With loggin= g and updated the text.

[Sue2] Just add this point= and we are good to go.

Thank you for addressing t= his issue.

 

Technical issues #2: Isolation of RFC7752

applying to this draft. 

 

What happens if the operators do not

adhere to the isolate of the BGP-LS

sessions? How does the operator

detect the problem?  A little more must

be included in this section.  

 

[KT] When isolat= ion is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP B= GP signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would af= fect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP rout= ing updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an err= or notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. = However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for = BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a separate draft and putting some = text like this hear does not seem like a good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional dr= aft is a fine way to handle this point as

this problem does impa= ct  all BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take t= his approach we will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status b= efore we can forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can = you spin this draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption c= all.  Can you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it o= n the 26th.

[KT] I think the= re are both manageability and security considerations aspects. Do we want t= o do a bis draft or just and update which covers these aspects. There has n= ow been some experience with implementations and deployment which would help clarify these aspects. I am not sure thoug= h that it would be a matter of weekend work J<= o:p>

 

[Sue] Let’s start th= is work.   Write the outline of

bis change and send me the= results.

I’ll be glad to prov= ide text and review this draft.

 

Technical issue #3: BGP-EPE functionality

Is a capability that can provide looping or

mis-routing of traffic.  

 

This is an improvement over the past statement.

How does the operator detect the problem =

Is caused by BGP-EPE?   

 

[KT] I would pro= pose the following text:

Traffic counters corre= sponding to the MPLS label of the BGP Peering SID on the router would indic= ate the traffic being forwarded based on the specific EPE path. Monitoring = these counters and the flows hitting the corresponding MPLS forwarding entry would help identify issues, if any= , with traffic engineering over the EPE paths.

 

[Sue]: This text is fi= ne for the MPLS case.

You must add that simi= lar IP forwarding counters would detect it for the

SR-v6 case.

[KT] This draft = only covers the SR-MPLS dataplane and SRv6 is covered in a separate draft.<= o:p>

[Sue2]: State this draft o= nly covers SR-MPLS. Indicate  

SR-v6 usage would need to = define similar detection mechanisms.

Thank you for addressing t= his issue.

 

The second sentence provid= es a

 

Editorial issues:

“The new protocol extensions introduced herein= augment the existing

topology information…”

 

How about

“The new protocol extensions introduced descri= bed in this document

augment the existing topology information”

 

While “herein” is a part of the English = language, it causes many

readers to stumble.  Your previous text was bet= ter.

[KT] Corrected.<= o:p>

[Sue2] thank you for= fixing this editorial issue.

Thanks,

Ketan=

 

Susan  

--_000_a95ebbc1e4de4493ac5e5c6521f9b9d2XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 08:14:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31ACB130F1D for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id la3VsbTAqk2y for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 294BC130F1C for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:14:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:14:45 -0400 Message-ID: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01C1_01D4679C.F14FE090" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRnuisWxEtXcKIJQRaUqZR9Lc83EQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:14:55 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01C1_01D4679C.F14FE090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regarding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09. The malformed TLV errors appeared to be addressed. The following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) and section 6 (security). Technical/editorial issue 1: In Section 5 Manageability: Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. Please clean up the text. I believe you mean the malformed TLVs can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new text is unclear. I think you mean both. Technical issues 2: What happens if the semantic or content Checking for the TLVS specified in the document finds an error? You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, But please make it specific to what happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or Attribute TLVs are broken. On the NLRI TLVs, what gets tossed? On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? Technical issue #3: 5.1 Operational Considerations Please add additional information to indicate: a) Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions to segment routing. b) Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors due to misconfiguration. Technical issue #4: Management considerations Three types of error exist: software errors, configuration errors, and attacks. The operator needs to have logging information or management parameters to track this. The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management parameters to track errors. The logs are a good place to put the error messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules. For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security the attacks. Technical issue #5: in Section 6. Security In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section 6 is incorrect. You are changing the information that the BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. You are allowing the node to report on SR algorithms, SR local block information, LAN adjacencies with BGP. This is not just the RFC7752 information and not BGP reachability or flow specification information. So, the statement needs to be augmented. Resolution suggestion: You can state this draft assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these drafts in a global manner. Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_01C1_01D4679C.F14FE090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

Thank you = for addressing many of my issues in regarding = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.   The malformed = TLV errors appeared to be addressed.

 

The = following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) = and section 6 (security). 

 

Technical/editorial  issue = 1:

 In Section 5 = Manageability:  

Your text mixes = malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. 

Please clean up the text.  I believe you mean the = malformed TLVs

can be in either NLRIs = or attributes, but the new text is unclear.

I think you mean both. 

 

Technical = issues 2:  What happens if the semantic or content =

Checking for the TLVS specified in = the document finds an error?

 

You can = borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, =

But please make it specific to what = happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or

Attribute TLVs are broken.   On the NLRI = TLVs, what gets tossed?

On the = Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? =  

 

Technical issue #3: 

5.1 Operational Considerations

Please add additional information to indicate: =

a)      = Please indicate what = policy is normal to support these extensions to

segment routing.    =

b)      = Please indicate how the = operator will know if there are errors

due to misconfiguration.

 

Technical = issue #4: Management considerations

 Three types of error exist:  software = errors, configuration errors,

and = attacks.  The operator needs to have logging information or =

management parameters to track this. =

 

The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management = parameters to

track errors.  = The logs are a good place to put the error messages while =

you wait for BGP Yang modules.  =

 

For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security = the attacks.

 

Technical issue #5:  in Section  6. = Security  

In my opinion as a = shepherd, the statement in section 6

is incorrect.  You are changing the information = that the

BGP security model for = RFC7752 impacts.

 

You are = allowing the node to report on

SR = algorithms,  SR local block information,

LAN adjacencies with BGP.

This is not just the RFC7752 information and =

not BGP reachability or flow = specification information.

 

So, the = statement needs to be augmented.

 

Resolution suggestion:  You can state this = draft

assumes a RFC7752bis that = deals with these

drafts in a global = manner.

 

Susan Hares

------=_NextPart_000_01C1_01D4679C.F14FE090-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 08:32:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFEFF130EF6; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:32:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vDEtrUtm-mgF; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D860A128CF2; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:32:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:32:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E3_01D4679F.74B9ED70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAUeOFiGjF42TsA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:32:52 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01D4679F.74B9ED70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les: =20 Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post. =20 =20 Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information. The extension of the = scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current discussions = at that time. The authors indicated to the IDR chairs the RFC7752 scope = would not grow. =20 =20 As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft. As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that security = issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. I =20 You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions and = segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS). This draft is just the = first of a wave of drafts. It is appropriate to have a solution for = the security issues that covers all the drafts rather than go through = drafts one at a time. I suggest that a revision to RFC7752 that = addresses these issues is appropriate.=20 =20 If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and the = IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic?=20 =20 Susan Hares=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 AM To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. =20 What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information = had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it = would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no = additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been required. =20 In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752. =20 I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as = intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship between = them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at the new = draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your = comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is = most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. The = issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion. =20 I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time needlessly. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk =20 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01D4679F.74B9ED70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post.=C2=A0 =

 

Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The extension = of the scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current = discussions at that time.=C2=A0 The authors indicated to the IDR chairs = the RFC7752 scope would not grow. =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft. =C2=A0As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that = security issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. = =C2=A0=C2=A0I

 

You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions = and segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS).=C2=A0 =C2=A0This draft = is just the first of a wave of drafts. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0It = is appropriate to have a solution for the security issues that covers = all the drafts rather than go through drafts one at a time. I suggest = that a revision to RFC7752 that addresses these issues is appropriate. =

 

If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and = the IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic? =

 

Susan Hares

 

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

 

 

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 = AM
To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: = idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to = make.

 

What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the  BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information had = already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it = would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no = additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been = required.

 

In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752.

 

I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not = as intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship = between them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at = the new draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context = your comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing = is most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. = The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion.

 

I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time = needlessly.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, = 2018 11:52 PM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01D4679F.74B9ED70-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 08:53:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13612130FAE for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:52:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CQp3Cuny9p1m for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07120130FE9 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 08:52:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" Cc: References: <00a301d4672f$efd31920$cf794b60$@ndzh.com> <008001d467ac$9dca1750$d95e45f0$@ndzh.com> <51081ED0-640F-48BB-9FB4-15632643E7CD@cisco.com> <00ef01d467b5$856b4bd0$9041e370$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <00ef01d467b5$856b4bd0$9041e370$@ndzh.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:35:54 -0400 Message-ID: <015a01d467b9$0b304330$2190c990$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015B_01D46797.8420ED20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLZPQ4++1BBgrbtubshR8Pyrs5tMQGSbvCJAgzDW+IBRyvqiwFgyufbAbKp+XCi3SjVwA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:53:07 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015B_01D46797.8420ED20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert:=20 =20 My understanding is that you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the = following draft:=20 =20 https://tools..ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 = =20 =20 I will review the draft for an adoption call later today. You will need = to present at the IDR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk' Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Acee: =20 Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:05 AM To: Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Hi Sue, Robert, I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on = the completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I = agree that it would be useful. Thanks, Acee =20 From: Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk = Date: Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: IDR List Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Hi Sue, =20 [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate = with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or = errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that = BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing = updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an = error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a = likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS = extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to = help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear = does not seem like a good idea. =20 [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as=20 this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach.=20 =20 However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft=20 at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the=20 IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it=20 and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend?=20 We can talk about it on the 26th. =20 Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ?=20 =20 If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned = over weekend.=20 =20 If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP = Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new = TCP port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent = from other SAFIs.=20 =20 Ref: https://tools..ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 = =20 =20 Thx, R. =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_015B_01D46797.8420ED20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert:

 

My understanding is that = you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the following draft: =

 

https://tools= ..ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01

 

I will review the draft = for an adoption call later today.=C2=A0 You will need to present at the = IDR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions. =

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM
To: = 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: = idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Acee:

 

Thank you for your = feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts. =

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:05 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; = shares@ndzh.com
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

Hi Sue, = Robert,

I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the = extant BGP-LS drafts on the completion of this new work improving the = RFC 7752 considerations. I agree that it would be = useful.

Thanks,

Acee

 

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> = on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: = Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM
To: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: IDR List = <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

 

[KT] When isolation is not = followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP = signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would = affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should = not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down = convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of = these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be = documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a = separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a = good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine = way to handle this point as

this problem does impact  all = BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take this approach we = will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can = forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can you spin this = draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can = you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the = 26th.

 

Is your intention to = "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it = ? 

 

If this is about = documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over = weekend. 

 

If this is however about = solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP Transport Instance draft to = WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new TCP port making it at least = at the TCP session level fully independent from other = SAFIs. 

 

 

Thx,

R.

 

 

 

 

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-0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Susan Hares , "'Robert Raszuk'" , "kaduk@mit.edu" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "secdir@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "ynir.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8CAAMKMAIAAa5YAgAAtaFCAAGQmAP//rr8g Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:56:53 +0000 Message-ID: <8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:57:00 -0000 --_000_8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U3VlIOKAkw0KDQpJIHdhcyBub3QgYW4gYXV0aG9yIG9mIFJGQyA3NzUyIGFuZCBoYXZlIG5vIGlk ZWEgd2hhdCBwcm9taXNlcyB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBtaWdodCBoYXZlIG1hZGUuIEkgd2lsbCBzYXkg dGhhdCBpdCBzZWVtcyB2ZXJ5IGxhdGUgaW4gdGhlIGdhbWUgZm9yIHlvdSB0byBzdWdnZXN0IHRo 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<7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:57:22 +0200 Message-ID: To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , kaduk@mit.edu, idr@ietf.org, secdir@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, Yoav Nir Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006c7c70057896f691" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:58:03 -0000 --0000000000006c7c70057896f691 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, RFC7752 title is: North-Bound Distribution of Link-State and Traffic Engineering (TE) Information Using BGP + section 1: 1 . Introduction The contents of a Link-State Database (LSDB) or of an IGP's Traffic Engineering Database (TED) describe only the links and nodes within an IGP area. So assuming that RFC7752 was read with some level of understading on what LSDB or TED mean there should be no surprise and also no content today that as LSDB or TED are continue to be extended in their respected WGs you will see new extensions of information to be added to RFC7752 vehicle in the forms of new TLV. Of course we would not have any of this discussions or need for new drafts if RFC7752 would simply zip and carry those two databases in binary chunks. Well for some reason authors decided to involve BGP in that process of carried data validation - but this alone should also be well understood by approvers of RFC7752. Kind regards, R. On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 5:32 PM Susan Hares wrote: > Les: > > > > Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post. > > > > Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on > =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was c= oncerned about the > scope of the information. The extension of the scope beyond its stated > scope might have trigger the current discussions at that time. The autho= rs > indicated to the IDR chairs the RFC7752 scope would not grow. > > > > As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security > directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 wit= h > this draft. As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that security issues Yo= av > raises are specified in RFC7752. I > > > > You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions and > segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS). This draft is just the fir= st > of a wave of drafts. It is appropriate to have a solution for the > security issues that covers all the drafts rather than go through drafts > one at a time. I suggest that a revision to RFC7752 that addresses these > issues is appropriate. > > > > If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and the > IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic? > > > > Susan Hares > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Les Ginsberg > (ginsberg) > *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 AM > *To:* Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu > *Cc:* idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > > > Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. > > > > What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to > advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was > written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism =E2= =80=93 nor is the > information being advertised here (some additional TE related link > attribute information) qualitatively different than a number of existing > TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information > had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it > would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no additiona= l > changes to RFC 7752 would have been required. > > > > In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a separat= e > draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it would > incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the existing text = in > RFC 7752. > > > > I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as > intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship between > them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at the new > draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your comment= s are > absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is most accurately > seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. The issues you raise h= ave already been > addressed in RFC 7752 and it is therefore very appropriate that we addres= s > your concerns by including a reference to the RFC 7752 security discussio= n. > > > > I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the > nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to advertise > new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS codepoints= . > This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document =E2=80=93 and it is = safe to > say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would be helpful to all if we reache= d a common > understanding or this discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS > extension document is being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all tim= e > needlessly. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM > *To:* kaduk@mit.edu > *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; idr@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com= ; > secdir@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of > draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 > > > > Hello Benjamin, > > > > Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this > topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to defin= e > ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that has alrea= dy > happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter Yoav's remarks > are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not > any follow up extensions of it. > > > > Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more information > about the network to the potential attacker makes the network weaker, but > the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce probability of > intercepting new information by unauthorized parties. > > > > BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice > level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says: > > > > "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is th= e > responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted > consumers are configured to receive such information." > > > > If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and > negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I recomme= nd > we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope of the > distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT community > with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we > could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft > (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). > > > > In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit lat= e > in the game here or at least targeting wrong document. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert. > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > Yoav =E2=80=93 > > > > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific > information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: > > > > From RFC7810 > > > > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could b= e > > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D > > > > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS > we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: > > > > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of link-sta= te and > > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > > information about the network.=E2=80=9D > > > > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am > therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are > not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs have= already > covered risks associated with the specific class of information (not simp= ly > the risks associated with the transport mechanism) you are going to have = to > provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is not alrea= dy > covered in the references. > > My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have > covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, *under > the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and > administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that > information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain tha= n > the one for which the previous analysis was performed. > > -Ben > > --0000000000006c7c70057896f691 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,

RFC7752 title = is: North-Bound Distribution of Link-State and Traffic Engineering (TE) Inf= ormation Using BGP

+ section 1:

= 
1=
.  Introduction


   The contents of a Link-State Database (LSDB) or of an IGP's Traffic
   Engineering Database (TED) describe only the links and nodes within
   an IGP area.

So assuming that RFC7752 w=
as read with some level of understading on what LSDB or TED mean there shou=
ld be no surprise and also no content today that as LSDB or TED are continu=
e to be extended in their respected WGs you will see new extensions of info=
rmation to be added to RFC7752 vehicle in the forms of new TLV.=C2=A0

Of course we would not have=
 any of this discussions or need for new drafts if RFC7752 would simply zip=
 and carry those two databases in binary chunks. Well for some reason autho=
rs decided to involve BGP in that process of carried data validation - but =
this alone should also be well understood by approvers of RFC7752.=C2=A0

Kind regards,=C2=A0R.


<= pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;mar= gin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">


=
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 5:32 PM= Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>= wrote:

Les:

=C2=A0

Thank you for resp= onding to Robert=E2=80=99s post.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Your argument that this inform= ation would have added to RFC7752 is on =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the I= ESG in their approval of RFC7752 was concerned about the scope of the infor= mation.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The extension of the scope beyond its stated scope migh= t have trigger the current discussions at that time.=C2=A0 The authors indi= cated to the IDR chairs the RFC7752 scope would not grow. =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security director= ate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 with this dra= ft.=C2=A0 As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that security issues Yoav ra= ises are specified in RFC7752. =C2=A0=C2=A0I

=C2=A0

=

You are correct that ther= e are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions and segment routing extensions th= at use BGP-LS).=C2=A0 =C2=A0This draft is just the first of a wave of draft= s. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0It is appropriate to have a solution for t= he security issues that covers all the drafts rather than go through drafts= one at a time. I suggest that a revision to RFC7752 that addresses these i= ssues is appropriate.

=C2=A0

If you are interested in discuss this topic wit= h Yoav, Benjamin, and the IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this = topic?

=C2=A0

Susan Hares

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

= =C2=A0

<= u>=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 AM=
To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.comSubject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-= te-pm-bgp-13

= =C2=A0

Robe= rt=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make.

=C2=A0=

What is being = done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to advertise IGP informati= on that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was written. We haven=E2=80=99= t changed the =C2=A0BGP-LS transport mechanism =E2=80=93 nor is the informa= tion being advertised here (some additional TE related link attribute infor= mation) qualitatively different than a number of existing TLVs defined in R= FC 7752 (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). = If this information had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 77= 52 was written it would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 = and no additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been required.

=C2= =A0

In t= heory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a separate draf= t, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it would incorrectly su= ggest that some change was being made to the existing text in RFC 7752.<= /u>

<= /u>=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think it is important that you note this relationship, = because the nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to= advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS c= odepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document =E2=80=93 a= nd it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would be helpful to a= ll if we reached a common understanding or this discussion will take place = every time a BGP-LS extension document is being reviewed =E2=80=93 which wi= ll cost us all time needlessly.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Th= ursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsb= erg) <ginsberg@c= isco.com>; idr@iet= f.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: R= e: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13=

=C2=A0

Hello Benjamin,

=C2=A0

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding= this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to d= efine ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that has a= lready happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter Yoav's= remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on RFC7752 and I= MO not any follow up extensions of it.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more informati= on about the network to the potential attacker makes the network weaker, bu= t the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce probability of inter= cepting new information by unauthorized parties.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does = provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and sa= ys:=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= u>

"BGP peerings are not auto= matic and require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the netw= ork operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receiv= e such information."

=C2=A0

If someone woul= d be still concerned about configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 o= r 72 to those who should not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC77= 52 as -bis version and restrict the scope of the distribution even further = by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite i= t for the selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

In either case while both of your comments are great th= ey seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /u>

Kind regards,

Robert.

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2= :27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (gin= sberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In regards to the ris= ks associated with advertising the specific information covered in this dra= ft we have a statement in the IGP drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
= >
> =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an op= erator to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertise state information of links (bandwi= dth, delay) that could be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sensitive and that an operat= or may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the ri= sks associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of stat= ements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> =E2=80=9CAd= ditionally, it may be considered that the export of link-state and
>= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TE information as described in this document constitutes a ri= sk to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 confidentiality of mission-critical or commercia= lly sensitive
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 information about the network.=E2=80=9D<= br>>
> So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and R= FC 7752 I am therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be useful= ly said.
> Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport m= echanism are not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IG= P RFCs have already covered risks associated with the specific class of inf= ormation (not simply the risks associated with the transport mechanism) you= are going to have to provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be sa= id that is not already covered in the references.

My apologies for j= umping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks as= sociated with a specific class of information, *under
the assumption tha= t the transport mechanism is within a single AS and
administrative domai= n*.=C2=A0 Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that
information may c= hange when the distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for wh= ich the previous analysis was performed.

-Ben

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[50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FB5C130E81; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:29:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> <8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:27:58 -0400 Message-ID: <022501d467c8$b33126d0$19937470$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0226_01D467A7.2C23CC90" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAUeOFiECtDA/VAGZqNHmovUqnkA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:29:22 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0226_01D467A7.2C23CC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les: =20 The discussion was not with specifically with me, but with both IDR = chairs, the AD for routing, and the IESG. I am simply reporting what = happened during the approval process. =20 =20 Perhaps you have not been active in IDR for a while. I stated these = concerns during the original RFC7752 discussion, but agreed that a = limited scope would limit my concerns. As we have expanded these = drafts, I have repeated these concerns and in person to the authors = who discussed these issues with me at IETF IDR meetings. You have not = been at any of the in-person author discussions at IETF. Please see my = comments on the list regarding BGP-LS additions and SR routing drafts.=20 =20 You felt that RFC7752 was sufficient to cover these drafts. I stated = clearly to you as a shepherd of your draft that you might wish to = upgrade your security section. You felt it was sufficient. Therefore, = I sent the draft to the security directorate for an impartial review. =20 =20 You are in this discussion because security directorate reviewer, Yoav, = pointed this issue regarding RFC7752 security. You feel it is = sufficient and my understanding of the discussion is that they do not = feel it is sufficient. =20 =20 I do agree that the IDR WG should engage in a general solution is to the = queries from the security directorate on RFC7752 security. It is not = specifically an issue specific to the draft-ietf-te-pm-bgp draft. I = have made the same suggestion for a revision to RFC7752 security to the = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe and = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ext. =20 =20 If you agree that the RFC7752 needs a revision with improved security, = you can put that statement in your draft. I will be glad to help = =E2=80=9Cfast-track=E2=80=9D an RFC7752bis with the security issues = resolved. If this issue of critical importance to deployed code that is = important to operators, the IDR WG can move within 6-8 weeks. The next = IESG meeting this document can reach approval will be after IETF 103 (~6 = weeks). =20 =20 Shall we take the approach of adding a reference of RFC7752bis with = security issues to draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 or do you wish to engage = in a discussion thread where you prove a revision to RFC7752bis is not = required? =20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 11:57 AM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 I was not an author of RFC 7752 and have no idea what promises the = authors might have made. I will say that it seems very late in the game = for you to suggest that this document should not be allowed to progress = because it exceeds some agreement on the scope of RFC 7752. Why = weren=E2=80=99t these concerns expressed long before? =20 If you feel that RFC 7752 security needs revision I would appreciate it = if you state so clearly (to the WG =E2=80=93 not just to me) and in the = right context. Such work is clearly not in the scope of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. =20 Les =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:33 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post. =20 =20 Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information. The extension of the = scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current discussions = at that time. The authors indicated to the IDR chairs the RFC7752 scope = would not grow. =20 =20 As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft. As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that security = issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. I =20 You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions and = segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS). This draft is just the = first of a wave of drafts. It is appropriate to have a solution for = the security issues that covers all the drafts rather than go through = drafts one at a time. I suggest that a revision to RFC7752 that = addresses these issues is appropriate.=20 =20 If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and the = IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic?=20 =20 Susan Hares=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 AM To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. =20 What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information = had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it = would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no = additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been required. =20 In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752. =20 I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as = intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship between = them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at the new = draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your = comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is = most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. The = issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion. =20 I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time needlessly. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk =20 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_0226_01D467A7.2C23CC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

The discussion was not with specifically with me, but with both IDR = chairs, the AD for routing, and the IESG. =C2=A0I am simply reporting = what happened during the approval process. = =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

Perhaps you have not been active in IDR for a while.=C2=A0 I stated = these concerns during the original RFC7752 discussion, but agreed that a = limited scope would limit my concerns.=C2=A0 As we have expanded these = drafts, =C2=A0=C2=A0I have repeated these concerns and in person to the = authors who discussed these issues with me at IETF IDR meetings. = =C2=A0=C2=A0You have not been at any of the in-person author discussions = at IETF.=C2=A0 Please see my comments on the list regarding BGP-LS = additions and SR routing drafts.

 

You felt that RFC7752 was sufficient to cover these drafts. =C2=A0I = stated clearly to you as a shepherd of your draft that you might wish to = upgrade your security section.=C2=A0 You felt it was sufficient.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Therefore, I sent the draft to the security directorate for an = impartial review.=C2=A0

 

You are in this discussion because security directorate reviewer, = Yoav, pointed this issue regarding RFC7752 security. =C2=A0You feel it = is sufficient and my understanding of the discussion is that they do not = feel it is sufficient. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

I do agree that the IDR WG should engage in a general solution is to = the queries from the security directorate on RFC7752 security.=C2=A0 It = is not specifically an issue specific to the draft-ietf-te-pm-bgp = draft.=C2=A0 I have made the same suggestion for a revision to RFC7752 = security to the draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe and = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ext.=C2=A0

 

If you agree that the RFC7752 needs a revision with improved = security, you can put that statement in your draft.=C2=A0 I will be glad = to help =E2=80=9Cfast-track=E2=80=9D an RFC7752bis with the security = issues resolved.=C2=A0 If this issue of critical importance to deployed = code that is important to operators, the IDR WG can move within 6-8 = weeks. =C2=A0The next IESG meeting this document can reach approval will = be after IETF 103 (~6 weeks).=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

Shall we take the approach of adding a reference of RFC7752bis with = security issues to draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 or do you wish to engage = in a discussion thread where you prove a revision to RFC7752bis is not = required?=C2=A0 =C2=A0

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: = Friday, October 19, 2018 11:57 AM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert = Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; = ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

I was not an author of RFC 7752 and have no idea what promises the = authors might have made. I will say that it seems very late in the game = for you to suggest that this document should not be allowed to progress = because it  exceeds some agreement on the scope of RFC 7752. Why = weren=E2=80=99t these concerns expressed long = before?

 

If you feel that RFC 7752 security needs revision I would appreciate = it if you state so clearly (to the WG =E2=80=93 not just to me) and in = the right context. Such work is clearly not in the scope of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.

 

   Les

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 = 8:33 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; = ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post.  =

 

Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information.   The extension = of the scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current = discussions at that time.  The authors indicated to the IDR chairs = the RFC7752 scope would not grow.   

 

As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft.  As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that = security issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. =   I

 

You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions = and segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS).   This draft = is just the first of a wave of drafts.      It = is appropriate to have a solution for the security issues that covers = all the drafts rather than go through drafts one at a time. I suggest = that a revision to RFC7752 that addresses these issues is appropriate. =

 

If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and = the IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic? =

 

Susan Hares

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:52 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject= : Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to = make.

 

What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the  BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information had = already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it = would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no = additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been = required.

 

In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752.

 

I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not = as intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship = between them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at = the new draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context = your comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing = is most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. = The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion.

 

I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time = needlessly.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> =
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_0226_01D467A7.2C23CC90-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 09:33:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF73130E39; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:33:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.936 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.936 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z0zy-fWF9gny; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFFC7130F73; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:33:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'John E Drake'" , "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> <8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:33:17 -0400 Message-ID: <023e01d467c9$713a98a0$53afc9e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_023F_01D467A7.EA2CA220" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAUeOFiECtDA/VAGZqNHmAXwhzhqi6VHkkA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:33:26 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_023F_01D467A7.EA2CA220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John:=20 =20 I agree with you that this issue is not specific to = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt, but should be taken up as a revision to = RFC7752. =20 =20 I disagree with you on the change of scope for RFC7752. This draft = (draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt) does add additional risk for the scope = of the attack surface on RFC7752 as it adds to the traffic engineering = information passed. =20 =20 Shall we agree on creating RFC7752bis that expands the security section? = I am glad to sponsor a =E2=80=9Cfast-track=E2=80=9D action on an = RFC7752bis.=20 =20 Yours respectfully,=20 Sue=20 =20 From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:27 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hi, =20 I was a co-author of RFC 7471 and RFC 7810, which introduce a handful = of new TE metrics into the existing OSPF and IS-IS TE infrastructures. = The subject draft does exactly the same thing for the existing BGP-LS TE = infrastructure defined in RFC 7752. =20 =20 As Les correctly points out, if there are security issues with the = existing BGP-LS TE infrastructure or more generally with RFC 7752, then = those issues need to be addressed with a revision of that RFC and not = with this draft. I.e., this draft does not change the scope of RFC 7752 = in any way.=20 =20 Yours Irrespectively, =20 John =20 From: Idr On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 11:57 AM To: Susan Hares ; 'Robert Raszuk' ; = kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 I was not an author of RFC 7752 and have no idea what promises the = authors might have made. I will say that it seems very late in the game = for you to suggest that this document should not be allowed to progress = because it exceeds some agreement on the scope of RFC 7752. Why = weren=E2=80=99t these concerns expressed long before? =20 If you feel that RFC 7752 security needs revision I would appreciate it = if you state so clearly (to the WG =E2=80=93 not just to me) and in the = right context. Such work is clearly not in the scope of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. =20 Les =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:33 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post. =20 =20 Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information. The extension of the = scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current discussions = at that time. The authors indicated to the IDR chairs the RFC7752 scope = would not grow. =20 =20 As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft. As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that security = issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. I =20 You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions and = segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS). This draft is just the = first of a wave of drafts. It is appropriate to have a solution for = the security issues that covers all the drafts rather than go through = drafts one at a time. I suggest that a revision to RFC7752 that = addresses these issues is appropriate.=20 =20 If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and the = IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic?=20 =20 Susan Hares=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 AM To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. =20 What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 = ). If this information had already been defined in = the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it would simply have been = included as a section of RFC 7752 and no additional changes to RFC 7752 = would have been required. =20 In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752. =20 I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as = intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship between = them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at the new = draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your = comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is = most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. The = issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion. =20 I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time needlessly. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk =20 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_023F_01D467A7.EA2CA220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John:

 

I agree with you that this issue is not specific to = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt, but should be taken up as a revision to = RFC7752.=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

I disagree with you on the change of scope for RFC7752.=C2=A0 This = draft (draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt) does add additional risk for the = scope of the attack surface on RFC7752 as it adds to the traffic = engineering information passed.=C2=A0

 

Shall we agree on creating RFC7752bis that expands the security = section? =C2=A0I am glad to sponsor a =E2=80=9Cfast-track=E2=80=9D = action on an RFC7752bis.

 

Yours respectfully,

Sue

 

From:= = John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 12:27 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Susan = Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; = idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hi,

 

I was a co-author of RFC 7471 and  RFC 7810, which introduce a = handful of new TE metrics into the existing OSPF and IS-IS TE = infrastructures.  The subject draft does exactly the same thing for = the existing BGP-LS TE infrastructure defined in RFC 7752.  =

 

As Les correctly points out, if there are security issues with the = existing BGP-LS TE infrastructure or more generally with RFC 7752, then = those issues need to be addressed with a revision of that RFC and not = with this draft.  I.e., this draft does not change the scope of RFC = 7752 in any way.

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

From: Idr = <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 11:57 = AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' = <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

I was not an author of RFC 7752 and have no idea what promises the = authors might have made. I will say that it seems very late in the game = for you to suggest that this document should not be allowed to progress = because it  exceeds some agreement on the scope of RFC 7752. Why = weren=E2=80=99t these concerns expressed long = before?

 

If you feel that RFC 7752 security needs revision I would appreciate = it if you state so clearly (to the WG =E2=80=93 not just to me) and in = the right context. Such work is clearly not in the scope of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.

 

   Les

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:33 AM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject= : RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post.  =

 

Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information.   The extension = of the scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current = discussions at that time.  The authors indicated to the IDR chairs = the RFC7752 scope would not grow.   

 

As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft.  As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that = security issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. =   I

 

You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions = and segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS).   This draft = is just the first of a wave of drafts.      It = is appropriate to have a solution for the security issues that covers = all the drafts rather than go through drafts one at a time. I suggest = that a revision to RFC7752 that addresses these issues is appropriate. =

 

If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and = the IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic? =

 

Susan Hares

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:52 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject= : Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to = make.

 

What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the  BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see https://tools.ietf.org/= html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information had already been = defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it would simply = have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no additional changes to = RFC 7752 would have been required.

 

In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752.

 

I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not = as intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship = between them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at = the new draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context = your comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing = is most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. = The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion.

 

I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time = needlessly.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> =
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

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-0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C49D0130FB1; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:55:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'John E Drake'" , "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <01e201d467c0$fbc6f990$f354ecb0$@ndzh.com> <8a146dfd09814f8092a0ac10bd7d37d1@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <023e01d467c9$713a98a0$53afc9e0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:55:25 -0400 Message-ID: <026b01d467cc$88fc6a60$9af53f20$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_026C_01D467AB.01EDD7A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAUeOFiECtDA/VAGZqNHmAXwhzhoCUSN6RAHEbix9osisafA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:55:36 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_026C_01D467AB.01EDD7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John: =20 I believe we are aligned on the next steps. Thanks for the input.=20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:53 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)'; 'Robert Raszuk'; = kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue, =20 Comments inline. =20 Yours Irrespectively, =20 John =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:33 PM To: John E Drake ; 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)' = ; 'Robert Raszuk' ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 John:=20 =20 I agree with you that this issue is not specific to = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt, but should be taken up as a revision to = RFC7752.=20 =20 [JD] Fine w/ me=20 =20 I disagree with you on the change of scope for RFC7752. This draft = (draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt) does add additional risk for the scope = of the attack surface on RFC7752 as it adds to the traffic engineering = information passed. =20 [JD] That sounds suspiciously like an assertion [Sue2] Yes =E2=80=93 this is my assertion. If you wish to have this = assertion reviewed by security directorate, I can ask. However, we = agree on the solution.=20 =20 Shall we agree on creating RFC7752bis that expands the security section? = I am glad to sponsor a =E2=80=9Cfast-track=E2=80=9D action on an = RFC7752bis.=20 =20 [JD] Fine w/ me=20 =20 Yours respectfully,=20 Sue=20 =20 From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:27 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hi, =20 I was a co-author of RFC 7471 and RFC 7810, which introduce a handful = of new TE metrics into the existing OSPF and IS-IS TE infrastructures. = The subject draft does exactly the same thing for the existing BGP-LS TE = infrastructure defined in RFC 7752. =20 =20 As Les correctly points out, if there are security issues with the = existing BGP-LS TE infrastructure or more generally with RFC 7752, then = those issues need to be addressed with a revision of that RFC and not = with this draft. I.e., this draft does not change the scope of RFC 7752 = in any way.=20 =20 Yours Irrespectively, =20 John =20 From: Idr On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 11:57 AM To: Susan Hares ; 'Robert Raszuk' ; = kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 I was not an author of RFC 7752 and have no idea what promises the = authors might have made. I will say that it seems very late in the game = for you to suggest that this document should not be allowed to progress = because it exceeds some agreement on the scope of RFC 7752. Why = weren=E2=80=99t these concerns expressed long before? =20 If you feel that RFC 7752 security needs revision I would appreciate it = if you state so clearly (to the WG =E2=80=93 not just to me) and in the = right context. Such work is clearly not in the scope of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. =20 Les =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:33 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post. =20 =20 Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information. The extension of the = scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current discussions = at that time. The authors indicated to the IDR chairs the RFC7752 scope = would not grow. =20 =20 As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft. As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that security = issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. I =20 You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions and = segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS). This draft is just the = first of a wave of drafts. It is appropriate to have a solution for = the security issues that covers all the drafts rather than go through = drafts one at a time. I suggest that a revision to RFC7752 that = addresses these issues is appropriate.=20 =20 If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and the = IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic?=20 =20 Susan Hares=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:52 AM To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. =20 What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 = ). If this information had already been defined in = the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it would simply have been = included as a section of RFC 7752 and no additional changes to RFC 7752 = would have been required. =20 In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752. =20 I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as = intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship between = them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at the new = draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your = comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is = most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. The = issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion. =20 I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time needlessly. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk =20 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_026C_01D467AB.01EDD7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John:

 

I believe we are aligned on the next steps.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks = for the input.

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 12:53 PM
To: Susan Hares; 'Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)'; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue,

 

Comments inline.

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 = 12:33 PM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; 'Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg)' <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' = <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

John:

 

I agree with you that this issue is not specific to = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt, but should be taken up as a revision to = RFC7752. 

 

[JD]  Fine w/ me

 

I disagree with you on the change of scope for RFC7752.  This = draft (draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13.txt) does add additional risk for the = scope of the attack surface on RFC7752 as it adds to the traffic = engineering information passed.

 

[JD]  That sounds suspiciously like an = assertion

[Sue2] Yes =E2=80=93 this is my assertion.=C2=A0 If you wish to have = this assertion reviewed by security directorate, I can ask.=C2=A0 = However, we agree on the solution.

 

Shall we agree on creating RFC7752bis that expands the security = section?  I am glad to sponsor a =E2=80=9Cfast-track=E2=80=9D = action on an RFC7752bis.

 

[JD]  Fine w/ me

 

Yours respectfully,

Sue

 

From:= = John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:27 PM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg); Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hi,

 

I was a co-author of RFC 7471 and  RFC 7810, which introduce a = handful of new TE metrics into the existing OSPF and IS-IS TE = infrastructures.  The subject draft does exactly the same thing for = the existing BGP-LS TE infrastructure defined in RFC 7752.  =

 

As Les correctly points out, if there are security issues with the = existing BGP-LS TE infrastructure or more generally with RFC 7752, then = those issues need to be addressed with a revision of that RFC and not = with this draft.  I.e., this draft does not change the scope of RFC = 7752 in any way.

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

From: Idr = <idr-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 11:57 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' = <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

I was not an author of RFC 7752 and have no idea what promises the = authors might have made. I will say that it seems very late in the game = for you to suggest that this document should not be allowed to progress = because it  exceeds some agreement on the scope of RFC 7752. Why = weren=E2=80=99t these concerns expressed long = before?

 

If you feel that RFC 7752 security needs revision I would appreciate = it if you state so clearly (to the WG =E2=80=93 not just to me) and in = the right context. Such work is clearly not in the scope of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.

 

   Les

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:33 AM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject= : RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

Thank you for responding to Robert=E2=80=99s post.  =

 

Your argument that this information would have added to RFC7752 is on = =E2=80=9Cthin ice=E2=80=9D as the IESG in their approval of RFC7752 was = concerned about the scope of the information.   The extension = of the scope beyond its stated scope might have trigger the current = discussions at that time.  The authors indicated to the IDR chairs = the RFC7752 scope would not grow.   

 

As shepherd I requested this draft to be reviewed by the security = directorate because we are going beyond the original scope of RFC7752 = with this draft.  As Shepherd, I do not agree with you that = security issues Yoav raises are specified in RFC7752. =   I

 

You are correct that there are many drafts (just BGP-LS extensions = and segment routing extensions that use BGP-LS).   This draft = is just the first of a wave of drafts.      It = is appropriate to have a solution for the security issues that covers = all the drafts rather than go through drafts one at a time. I suggest = that a revision to RFC7752 that addresses these issues is appropriate. =

 

If you are interested in discuss this topic with Yoav, Benjamin, and = the IDR WG =E2=80=93 shall we start a thread on this topic? =

 

Susan Hares

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:52 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject= : Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to = make.

 

What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the  BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see https://tools.ietf.org/= html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information had already been = defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it would simply = have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no additional changes to = RFC 7752 would have been required.

 

In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752.

 

I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not = as intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship = between them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at = the new draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context = your comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing = is most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. = The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion.

 

I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time = needlessly.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> =
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:52 PM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_026C_01D467AB.01EDD7A0-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 10:08:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0F4130F73; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:07:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gQO_PDHucOLG; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A05C12426A; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:07:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:07:42 -0400 Message-ID: <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_028C_01D467AC.B91BCDF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAfFlXbIB67+5BKMC91CA Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:07:52 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_028C_01D467AC.B91BCDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les: =20 I apologize if my email message was unclear. We both agree that your = draft is not related to SR routing. SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a transport mechanism for information. =20 =20 I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information. However, that = traffic engineering information almost got that draft rejected by the = IESG at the time. As my previous message to this list indicated, we got = agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that information and the = assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a separate set of nodes. = Expanding the traffic engineering information beyond RFC7752 re-opens = all the security issues and questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original = review. =20 =20 The security directorate reviewer is asking these security questions. = The security directorate does have people with both routing and security = experts. =20 =20 SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752. = The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those original = security questions and issues. =20 =20 One way to answer these questions is to provide a RFC7752bis with an = updated security section. If you agree with this approach, I suggest = simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security section. If you = disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a = thread on that point.=20 =20 Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? Do you want to = continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?=20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:58 AM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 One of us is confused. J =20 draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those words = do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference to any = SR document. =20 Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion = that we are introducing a new attack vector by defining some = additional(sic) TE codepoints does not make sense to me. =20 I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them. =20 Could you please update your response with these points in mind? =20 Thanx. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM To: 'Robert Raszuk' ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:=20 =20 I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this draft. = However, traffic engineering information does provide information which = is a tempting attack vector.=20 =20 The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted usage = that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP. Since Spring WG = shows that operators are interested in the extended use, it may be time = to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes care of these = security issues. =20 =20 My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the IESG = and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. As a = WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has these drafts = on WG LC without the extra security. Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I am = working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =20 =20 If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is that = we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and handles = these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking this = issue within the WG.=20 =20 If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and Alvaro = would speed this along, I can set this up early next week. It would be = helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR interim session = on 10/26.=20 =20 Thank you for all your comments.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_028C_01D467AC.B91BCDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

I apologize if my email message was unclear. =C2=A0=C2=A0We both = agree that your draft is not related to SR routing.=C2=A0=C2=A0 SR = routing is related to BGP-LS as a transport mechanism for information. = =C2=A0

 

I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information.=C2=A0 = However, that traffic engineering information almost got that draft = rejected by the IESG at the time.=C2=A0 As my previous message to this = list indicated, we got agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that = information and the assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a = separate set of nodes. =C2=A0Expanding the traffic engineering = information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security issues and = questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. = =C2=A0

 

The security directorate reviewer is asking these security = questions.=C2=A0 The security directorate does have people with both = routing and security experts. =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

SR routing is also expanding the information past the original = RFC7752.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open = those original security questions and issues.=C2=A0 =

 

One way to answer these questions is to provide a =C2=A0RFC7752bis = with an updated security section.=C2=A0 If you agree with this approach, = I suggest simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security = section. =C2=A0=C2=A0If you disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is = required, we can start a thread on that point.

 

Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? =C2=A0Do you want = to continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:58 = AM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

One of us is confused. J

 

draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those = words do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference = to any SR document.

 

Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion that we are = introducing a new attack vector by defining some additional(sic) TE = codepoints does not make sense to me.

 

I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them.

 

Could you please update your response with these points in = mind?

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 = 6:26 AM
To: 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:

 

I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this = draft.  However, traffic engineering information does provide = information which is a tempting attack vector.

 

The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted = usage that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP.   = Since Spring WG shows that operators are interested in the extended use, = it may be time to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes = care of these security issues. 

 

My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the = IESG and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. =  As a WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has = these drafts on WG LC without the extra = security.

Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I = am working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible.  

 

If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is = that we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and = handles these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking = this issue within the WG.

 

If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and = Alvaro would speed this along, I can set this up early next week.  = It would be helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR = interim session on 10/26.

 

Thank you for all your comments.

 

Sue

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, October 19, = 2018 2:52 AM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_028C_01D467AC.B91BCDF0-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 10:09:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B5913104C for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wnw-G8ex_HN5 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC01313104A for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=15846; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1539968982; x=1541178582; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=QyRgZBdLCbPss6ADRg+LAGmaxMpjeNBUnVlstEqik/g=; b=cY8RbyqGSzx5F+lfyg9w/d3oR5B2DxrsSpc49IPd3a7MMObER2QKo0Li i9ZC1cDqU/98c31z8j6CsuGNxokbP+M6EGzS7lKwyKwqIwQLboXhXoFJI zTK16LaojDagcSZo1sRa67Ub/FXLXozwqm5AHpHm0l8N0DXtWNDRnRRqZ U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AGAAD8Dspb/4wNJK1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUgMBAQEBAQsBgQ13Zn8oCpgcgg16kE2FSIF6CwEBgXe?= =?us-ascii?q?CdQKFCCE1DA0BAwEBAgEBAm0ohTkBAQEELToSEAIBCA4DBAEBLzIdCAEBBAE?= =?us-ascii?q?NBQiDGoEdZKhoihiLTxeBQT+BEYJdNYpYAo4yhhCJfwkCkGIfgU+EcwWIO4E?= =?us-ascii?q?niSONCAIRFIEmHgE2gVVwFYMngiYXjhpvineBHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,400,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="466876439" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Oct 2018 17:09:41 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9JH9ftw026851 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:09:41 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:09:40 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:09:40 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Thread-Index: AdRnuisWxEtXcKIJQRaUqZR9Lc83EQABjtUw Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:09:40 +0000 Message-ID: <2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.17, xch-rcd-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:09:54 -0000 --_000_2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, Please check inline below. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regarding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-= ls-segment-routing-ext-09. The malformed TLV errors appeared to be addres= sed. The following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) a= nd section 6 (security). Technical/editorial issue 1: In Section 5 Manageability: Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. Please clean up the text. I believe you mean the malformed TLVs can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new text is unclear. I think you mean both. [KT] This draft does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only i= ntroduces new attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this. Technical issues 2: What happens if the semantic or content Checking for the TLVS specified in the document finds an error? You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, But please make it specific to what happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or Attribute TLVs are broken. On the NLRI TLVs, what gets tossed? On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? [KT] I will borrow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs b= eing introduced in this draft. Technical issue #3: 5.1 Operational Considerations Please add additional information to indicate: a) Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions t= o segment routing. b) Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors due to misconfiguration. [KT] I did not quite follow this. There is no additional configuration requ= ired for this in BGP or BGP-LS. These are just new attributes from IGP bein= g carried for node, links and prefixes - they are simply additional topolog= ical information. Their being related to Segment Routing does not change an= ything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. I would remove this section 5.= 1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of section 5 which has the reference t= o the base RFC7752. Technical issue #4: Management considerations Three types of error exist: software errors, configuration errors, and attacks. The operator needs to have logging information or management parameters to track this. The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management parameters to track errors. The logs are a good place to put the error messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules. For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security the attacks. [KT] There is no change with configuration, or provisioning or management h= ere as far as BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the= base RFC7752. Technical issue #5: in Section 6. Security In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section 6 is incorrect. You are changing the information that the BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. You are allowing the node to report on SR algorithms, SR local block information, LAN adjacencies with BGP. This is not just the RFC7752 information and not BGP reachability or flow specification information. So, the statement needs to be augmented. [KT] I would augment the text to include SR specific considerations and ref= erences. Resolution suggestion: You can state this draft assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these drafts in a global manner. Susan Hares --_000_2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Please = check inline below.

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org=
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing= -ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regard= ing draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.   The malformed= TLV errors appeared to be addressed.

 

The following technical issues still remain in secti= ons 5 (manageability) and section 6 (security). 

 

Technical/editorial  issue 1:=

 In Section 5 Manageability:  <= /p>

Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attribute= s. 

Please clean up the text.  I believe you mean t= he malformed TLVs

can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new te= xt is unclear.

I think you mean both. 

[KT] This draft = does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new at= tribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this.

 

Technical issues 2:  What happens if the= semantic or content

Checking for the TLVS specified in the document find= s an error?

 

You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-se= gment-routing-epe,

But please make it specific to what happens if the N= LRI TLVs are broken or

Attribute TLVs are broken.   On the NLRI T= LVs, what gets tossed?

On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get = tossed?  

[KT] I will borr= ow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs being introduced = in this draft.

 

Technical issue #3: 

5.1 Operational Considerations

Please add additional information to indicate: =

a)      Please indicate what policy is normal to support th= ese extensions to

segment routing.   

b)     Please indicate how the operator will know if there= are errors

due to misconfiguration.

[KT] I did not quite follow this. There is no additional= configuration required for this in BGP or BGP-LS. These are just new attri= butes from IGP being carried for node, links and prefixes – they are simply additional topological information. T= heir being related to Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BG= P or BGP-LS is concerned. I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since t= here is text at start of section 5 which has the reference to the base RFC7752.

 

Technical issue #4: Management considerations=

 Three types of error exist:  software err= ors, configuration errors,

and attacks.  The operator needs to have loggin= g information or

management parameters to track this.

 

The BGP Yang models are a good place to put manageme= nt parameters to

track errors.  The logs are a good place to put= the error messages while

you wait for BGP Yang modules. 

 

For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address securi= ty the attacks.

[KT] There is no= change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as BG= P or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base RFC7752.

 

Technical issue #5:  in Section  6.= Security  

In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in sectio= n 6

is incorrect.  You are changing the information= that the

BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. <= /p>

 

You are allowing the node to report on

SR algorithms,  SR local block information,

LAN adjacencies with BGP.

This is not just the RFC7752 information and

not BGP reachability or flow specification informati= on.

 

So, the statement needs to be augmented. =

[KT] I would aug= ment the text to include SR specific considerations and references.

 

Resolution suggestion:  You can state th= is draft

assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these

drafts in a global manner.

 

Susan Hares

--_000_2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 10:12:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D8D12426A for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wad-audSUxPJ for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F13B130DC1 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" Cc: References: <153995947824.6550.6797438271064339339@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153995947824.6550.6797438271064339339@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:12:06 -0400 Message-ID: <02a701d467ce$dd7715c0$98654140$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQK1AdeRtOqaEv4G84mHnuxn8qCgpKNll75A Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:12:13 -0000 Ketan: I do not see any reference to a revised RFC7752 in the security section of this draft. If you agree we need a revised RFC7752 draft, please add this text to the security section. "RFC7752 security considerations may need to be expanded to cover the extensions in this draft. The need to extend the RFC7752 security is common to many drafts that utilize BGP-LS defined in RFC7752 so this work is being undertaken in an RFC7752bis rather than this draft." If you add this, I can start the 1 week review on text. Cheerily, Sue -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:31 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS extensions for Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Keyur Patel Saikat Ray Jie Dong Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-10-19 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service-based. SR segments allow steering a flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. This document describes an extension to BGP Link State (BGP-LS) for advertisement of BGP Peering Segments along with their BGP peering node information so that efficient BGP Egress Peer Engineering (EPE) policies and strategies can be computed based on Segment Routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-e pe-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-1 7 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Fri Oct 19 10:29:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CDAE130DDC; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 10:29:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.563 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org 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15.0.1395.4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:28:54 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:28:54 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Susan Hares , "'Robert Raszuk'" , "kaduk@mit.edu" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "ynir.ietf@gmail.com" , "secdir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8CAAMKMAIAAa5YAgABuEAD//8RJQAAPN8wAAApAKAA= Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:28:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> 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<00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:07:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , kaduk@mit.edu, idr@ietf.org, Yoav Nir , secdir@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008ebf0a0578999f1b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 19:08:14 -0000 --0000000000008ebf0a0578999f1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, It seems that we have arrived here at a point that indeed further discussion and clarification is needed. Yes RFC7752 has issues in the way it is designed ... those issues are there since day one. Just to name a few: * Point to multipoint protocol is used as a container to distribute point to point information. * Fate sharing separation is not enforced in any way and various address families are send via the same BGP infrastructure * The growth of the amount of information being carried by BGP-LS can impact bgp processing (ex: update generation) of other types of SAFIs * More and more applications want have a free ride on this transport - othen only because it is already there. We should discuss those in a separate thread if RFC7752bis is needed or perhaps other work can offer alternate transport for BGP-LS be it an enforced different TCP session or in general for link state type of data (BMP analogy for IGP). *However IMO non of the above is about security. * SAFIs just do not get advertised automagically to attackers. For further scoping tools like local BGP policy is already in place today. As mentioned use of NO-EXPORT can be applied today with no new draft needed. So to proceed I would like to see a list of valid security issues of RFC7752. If none will be produced all companion work should be progressed with their current security sections just referencing RFC7752 or RFC4271. Kind regards, Robert On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:07 PM Susan Hares wrote: > Les: > > > > I apologize if my email message was unclear. We both agree that your > draft is not related to SR routing. SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a > transport mechanism for information. > > > > I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information. However, that > traffic engineering information almost got that draft rejected by the IES= G > at the time. As my previous message to this list indicated, we got > agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that information and the assurance > that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a separate set of nodes. Expanding th= e > traffic engineering information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security > issues and questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. > > > > The security directorate reviewer is asking these security questions. Th= e > security directorate does have people with both routing and security > experts. > > > > SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752. > The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those original securi= ty > questions and issues. > > > > One way to answer these questions is to provide a RFC7752bis with an > updated security section. If you agree with this approach, I suggest > simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security section. If you > disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a > thread on that point. > > > > Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? Do you want to > continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis? > > > > Cheerily, Sue > --0000000000008ebf0a0578999f1b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,

It seems that we hav= e arrived here at a point that indeed further discussion and clarification = is needed.

Yes RFC7752 has issues in the way it is= designed ... those issues are there since day one.=C2=A0

Just to name a few:=C2=A0

* Point to multi= point protocol is used as a container to distribute point to point informat= ion.=C2=A0
* Fate sharing separation is not enforced in any way a= nd various address families are send via the same BGP infrastructure
<= div>* The growth of the amount of information being carried by BGP-LS can i= mpact bgp processing (ex: update generation) of other types of SAFIs
<= div>* More and more applications want have a free ride on this transport - = othen only because it is already there.=C2=A0

We s= hould discuss those in a separate thread if RFC7752bis is needed or perhaps= other work can offer alternate transport for BGP-LS be it=C2=A0
<= div>an enforced different TCP session or in general for link state type of = data (BMP analogy for IGP).=C2=A0

Howev= er IMO non of the above is about security.=C2=A0
SAFIs just do not get advertised automagically to attackers. F= or further scoping tools like local BGP policy is already in place today. A= s mentioned=C2=A0
use of NO-EXPORT can be applied today with no n= ew draft needed.=C2=A0

So to proceed I would like = to see a list of valid security issues of RFC7752. If none will be produced= all companion work should be progressed=C2=A0
with their current= security sections just referencing RFC7752 or RFC4271.

Kind regards,
Robert


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:07 P= M Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>= ; wrote:

Les:

=C2=A0=

I apologize if= my email message was unclear. =C2=A0=C2=A0We both agree that your draft is= not related to SR routing.=C2=A0=C2=A0 SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a transport mechanism for information. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

I agree that RFC7752 had= traffic engineering information.=C2=A0 However, that traffic engineering i= nformation almost got that draft rejected by the IESG at the time.=C2=A0 As= my previous message to this list indicated, we got agreement on RFC7752 ba= sed on limiting that information and the assurance that BGP-LS nodes were d= eployed on a separate set of nodes.=C2=A0 Expanding the traffic engineering= information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security issues and questions = from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

The security directorat= e reviewer is asking these security questions.=C2=A0 The security directora= te does have people with both routing and security experts. =C2=A0=C2=A0=

= =C2=A0

SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752.= =C2=A0=C2=A0 The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those orig= inal security questions and issues.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

One way to answer these que= stions is to provide a =C2=A0RFC7752bis with an updated security section.= =C2=A0 If you agree with this approach, I suggest simply referring to a RFC= 7752bis that in your security section. =C2=A0=C2=A0If you disagree that an = update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a thread on that point. =

= =C2=A0

Did this message clarify my earlier brief message?=C2=A0 Do you want = to continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?

=C2=A0=

Cheerily, Sue<= /p>

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autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pOmUQaER1XWl for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66C8A1286E3 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:53:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> <2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:52:58 -0400 Message-ID: <039a01d467ed$b8056b60$28104220$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_039B_01D467CC.30F81120" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIYYZ/wmBrbToVLwoOqn7WsrZ8NEQKR7ES/pIp5k6A= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:53:10 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_039B_01D467CC.30F81120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: Thank you for your response. See my comments below in [Sue2]. Sue From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: RE: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Hi Sue, Please check inline below. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regarding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09. The malformed TLV errors appeared to be addressed. The following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) and section 6 (security). Technical/editorial issue 1: In Section 5 Manageability: Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. Please clean up the text. I believe you mean the malformed TLVs can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new text is unclear. I think you mean both. [KT] This draft does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this. [Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. Technical issues 2: What happens if the semantic or content Checking for the TLVS specified in the document finds an error? You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, But please make it specific to what happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or Attribute TLVs are broken. On the NLRI TLVs, what gets tossed? On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? [KT] I will borrow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs being introduced in this draft. [Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is attributes, but you were unclear above. If you borrow the text, you will be fine. Technical issue #3: 5.1 Operational Considerations Please add additional information to indicate: a) Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions to segment routing. b) Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors due to misconfiguration. [KT] I did not quite follow this. There is no additional configuration required for this in BGP or BGP-LS. These are just new attributes from IGP being carried for node, links and prefixes - they are simply additional topological information. Their being related to Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of section 5 which has the reference to the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: It is not just topology, it include the following things besides topology: a) Each notes SR capabilities b) SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, c) SR global base ranges, and d) SR local block ranges. These go beyond sending RFC7752 IGP topology information in BGP. Please indicate what configuration causes you to send SR topology extensions. Potential changes: Nodes configured for Segment routing information send this information. For use cases see ____ spring drafts. Fill in the blank with the correct spring. Technical issue #4: Management considerations Three types of error exist: software errors, configuration errors, and attacks. The operator needs to have logging information or management parameters to track this. The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management parameters to track errors. The logs are a good place to put the error messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules. For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security the attacks. [KT] There is no change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: See my answer to technical issue #3 as to your expansion. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-09 has yang module for IGPs. May I politely suggest that you should extend the BGP yang module with an augmentation for the BGP configuration for Segment routing. If nothing else, Technical issue #5: in Section 6. Security In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section 6 is incorrect. You are changing the information that the BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. You are allowing the node to report on SR algorithms, SR local block information, LAN adjacencies with BGP. This is not just the RFC7752 information and not BGP reachability or flow specification information. So, the statement needs to be augmented. [KT] I would augment the text to include SR specific considerations and references. [Sue2]: Which references would you add? Resolution suggestion: You can state this draft assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these drafts in a global manner. Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_039B_01D467CC.30F81120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

Thank you for your = response.  See my comments below in [Sue2].

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
Sent: = Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM
To: Susan Hares; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'
Subject: RE: = Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

<= /div>

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Please = check inline below.

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 20:45
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' = <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you = for addressing many of my issues in regarding = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.   The malformed = TLV errors appeared to be addressed.

 

The = following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) = and section 6 (security). 

 

Technical/editorial  issue = 1:

 In Section 5 = Manageability:  

Your text mixes = malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. 

Please clean up the text.  I believe you mean the = malformed TLVs

can be in either NLRIs = or attributes, but the new text is unclear.

I think you mean both. 

[KT] This draft = does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new = attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify = this.

[Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. =

 

Technical issues 2:  What happens if the = semantic or content

Checking for the = TLVS specified in the document finds an error?

 

You can = borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, =

But please make it specific to what = happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or

Attribute TLVs are broken.   On the NLRI = TLVs, what gets tossed?

On the = Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? =  

[KT] I will borrow that text, but note that = these are just attribute TLVs being introduced in this = draft.

[Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is = attributes, but you were unclear above.  If you borrow the text, = you will be fine.  

 

Technical = issue #3: 

5.1 Operational = Considerations

Please add additional = information to indicate:

a)      Please indicate = what policy is normal to support these extensions to

segment routing.    =

b)     Please indicate how the = operator will know if there are errors

due to misconfiguration.

 

[KT] I did not quite follow this.

 

There is no additional configuration required = for this in BGP or BGP-LS.

These are just new attributes from IGP being = carried for node, links and prefixes – they are simply additional = topological information. =  Their being related to = Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is = concerned.

I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since = there is text at start of section 5 which has the reference to the base = RFC7752.

 

[Sue2]:  It is not just topology, it include = the following things besides topology:

a)      = Each notes SR capabilities

b)      = SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, =

c)       = SR global base ranges, and =  

d)      = SR local block ranges.

These go beyond sending = RFC7752 IGP topology information in

BGP.   Please = indicate what configuration causes you to send

SR topology extensions. =

 

Potential changes:  = Nodes configured for Segment routing information

send this information. =  For use cases see ____ spring drafts.

Fill in the blank with the = correct spring.

 

Technical issue #4: Management considerations =

 Three types of error = exist:  software errors, configuration errors,

and attacks.  The operator needs to have logging = information or

management parameters = to track this.

 

The BGP Yang = models are a good place to

put = management parameters to  track errors. 

The = logs are a good place to put the error

messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules.  =

For security attacks, RFC7752bis = will

address security the attacks.

 

[KT] There is no = change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as = BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base = RFC7752.

[Sue2]:  

See my answer to technical = issue #3 as to your expansion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang= -09

 

has yang module for IGPs.  May I politely = suggest

that you = should extend the BGP yang module with

an augmentation for the BGP = configuration

for Segment = routing.   If nothing else,  

 

 

Technical = issue #5:  in Section  6. Security  

In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section = 6

is incorrect.  You are = changing the information that the

BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. =

 

You are allowing the node to report on =

SR algorithms,  SR local block = information,

LAN adjacencies with = BGP.

This is not just the RFC7752 = information and

not BGP reachability = or flow specification information.

 

So, the = statement needs to be augmented.

[KT] I would = augment the text to include SR specific considerations and = references.

[Sue2]:  Which = references would you add?

 

Resolution suggestion:  You can state this = draft

assumes a RFC7752bis that = deals with these

drafts in a global = manner.

 

Susan Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_039B_01D467CC.30F81120-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 13:59:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1742F130DDB for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v69_PFl2Bqge for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B53111286E3 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:59:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> <2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <039a01d467ed$b8056b60$28104220$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <039a01d467ed$b8056b60$28104220$@ndzh.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:59:26 -0400 Message-ID: <03b901d467ee$9f5ee220$de1ca660$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03BA_01D467CD.18530E80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIYYZ/wmBrbToVLwoOqn7WsrZ8NEQKR7ES/Ab1VhMSkfJ96QA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:59:35 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03BA_01D467CD.18530E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: You may want to pause a moment before editing. I see you sent potential text in email. Let me review that text to see if we are closer. Sue Hares From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 PM To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for your response. See my comments below in [Sue2]. Sue From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: RE: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Hi Sue, Please check inline below. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regarding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09. The malformed TLV errors appeared to be addressed. The following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) and section 6 (security). Technical/editorial issue 1: In Section 5 Manageability: Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. Please clean up the text. I believe you mean the malformed TLVs can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new text is unclear. I think you mean both. [KT] This draft does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this. [Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. Technical issues 2: What happens if the semantic or content Checking for the TLVS specified in the document finds an error? You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, But please make it specific to what happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or Attribute TLVs are broken. On the NLRI TLVs, what gets tossed? On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? [KT] I will borrow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs being introduced in this draft. [Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is attributes, but you were unclear above. If you borrow the text, you will be fine. Technical issue #3: 5.1 Operational Considerations Please add additional information to indicate: a) Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions to segment routing. b) Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors due to misconfiguration. [KT] I did not quite follow this. There is no additional configuration required for this in BGP or BGP-LS. These are just new attributes from IGP being carried for node, links and prefixes - they are simply additional topological information. Their being related to Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of section 5 which has the reference to the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: It is not just topology, it include the following things besides topology: a) Each notes SR capabilities b) SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, c) SR global base ranges, and d) SR local block ranges. These go beyond sending RFC7752 IGP topology information in BGP. Please indicate what configuration causes you to send SR topology extensions. Potential changes: Nodes configured for Segment routing information send this information. For use cases see ____ spring drafts. Fill in the blank with the correct spring. Technical issue #4: Management considerations Three types of error exist: software errors, configuration errors, and attacks. The operator needs to have logging information or management parameters to track this. The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management parameters to track errors. The logs are a good place to put the error messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules. For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security the attacks. [KT] There is no change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: See my answer to technical issue #3 as to your expansion. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-09 has yang module for IGPs. May I politely suggest that you should extend the BGP yang module with an augmentation for the BGP configuration for Segment routing. If nothing else, Technical issue #5: in Section 6. Security In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section 6 is incorrect. You are changing the information that the BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. You are allowing the node to report on SR algorithms, SR local block information, LAN adjacencies with BGP. This is not just the RFC7752 information and not BGP reachability or flow specification information. So, the statement needs to be augmented. [KT] I would augment the text to include SR specific considerations and references. [Sue2]: Which references would you add? Resolution suggestion: You can state this draft assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these drafts in a global manner. Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_03BA_01D467CD.18530E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

You may want to pause a = moment before editing.

 

I see you sent potential = text in email.   Let me review that text to see if we are = closer.

 

Sue Hares =

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 PM
To: = 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

<= /div>

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for your = response.  See my comments below in [Sue2].

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
Sent: = Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM
To: Susan Hares; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'
Subject: RE: = Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

<= /div>

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Please = check inline below.

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 20:45
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' = <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you = for addressing many of my issues in regarding = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.   The malformed = TLV errors appeared to be addressed.

 

The = following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) = and section 6 (security). 

 

Technical/editorial  issue = 1:

 In Section 5 = Manageability:  

Your text mixes = malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. 

Please clean up the text.  I believe you mean the = malformed TLVs

can be in either NLRIs = or attributes, but the new text is unclear.

I think you mean both. 

[KT] This draft = does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new = attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify = this.

[Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. =

 

Technical issues 2:  What happens if the = semantic or content

Checking for the = TLVS specified in the document finds an error?

 

You can = borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, =

But please make it specific to what = happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or

Attribute TLVs are broken.   On the NLRI = TLVs, what gets tossed?

On the = Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? =  

[KT] I will borrow that text, but note that = these are just attribute TLVs being introduced in this = draft.

[Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is = attributes, but you were unclear above.  If you borrow the text, = you will be fine.  

 

Technical = issue #3: 

5.1 Operational = Considerations

Please add additional = information to indicate:

a)      Please indicate = what policy is normal to support these extensions to

segment routing.    =

b)     Please indicate how the = operator will know if there are errors

due to misconfiguration.

 

[KT] I did not quite follow this. =

 

There is no additional configuration required = for this in BGP or BGP-LS.

These are just new attributes from IGP being = carried for node, links and prefixes – they are simply additional = topological information.  Their being related to Segment Routing = does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. =

I would = remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of = section 5 which has the reference to the base = RFC7752.

 

[Sue2]:  It is not just topology, it include = the following things besides topology:

a)      = Each notes SR capabilities

b)      = SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, =

c)       = SR global base ranges, and =  

d)      = SR local block ranges.

These go beyond sending = RFC7752 IGP topology information in

BGP.   Please = indicate what configuration causes you to send

SR topology extensions. =

 

Potential changes:  = Nodes configured for Segment routing information

send this information. =  For use cases see ____ spring drafts.

Fill in the blank with the = correct spring.

 

Technical issue #4: Management considerations =

 Three types of error = exist:  software errors, configuration errors,

and attacks.  The operator needs to have logging = information or

management parameters = to track this.

 

The BGP Yang = models are a good place to

put = management parameters to  track errors. 

The = logs are a good place to put the error

messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules.  =

For security attacks, RFC7752bis = will

address security the attacks.

 

[KT] There is no = change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as = BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base = RFC7752.

[Sue2]:  

See my answer to technical = issue #3 as to your expansion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang= -09

 

has yang module for IGPs.  May I politely = suggest

that you = should extend the BGP yang module with

an augmentation for the BGP = configuration

for Segment = routing.   If nothing else,  

 

 

Technical = issue #5:  in Section  6. Security  

In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section = 6

is incorrect.  You are = changing the information that the

BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. =

 

You are allowing the node to report on =

SR algorithms,  SR local block = information,

LAN adjacencies with = BGP.

This is not just the RFC7752 = information and

not BGP reachability = or flow specification information.

 

So, the = statement needs to be augmented.

[KT] I would = augment the text to include SR specific considerations and = references.

[Sue2]:  Which = references would you add?

 

Resolution suggestion:  You can state this = draft

assumes a RFC7752bis that = deals with these

drafts in a global = manner.

 

Susan Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_03BA_01D467CD.18530E80-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 14:32:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E120130E05; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:32:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QSJX6iC0tcxg; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8104130DEB; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:32:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:31:59 -0400 Message-ID: <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03E2_01D467D1.A4F51D20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAfFlXbIB67+5BAE930AoAZRhPWOi7LDcsA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:32:08 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03E2_01D467D1.A4F51D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les: =20 I will respond to this information point by point after I have responded = to Ketan who sent me messages regarding his draft prior to yours. = However, I would like your feedback on whether you believe RFC7752 has = security that is equivalent to, less than, or greater than a trusted = domain?=20 =20 The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default SR = operates within a trusted domain. It says further:=20 =20 =E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of = best practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain = is important. Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381 = ] and are applicable to both = SR-MPLS and SRv6.=E2=80=9D=20 =20 If you believe that RFC7752 describes a trusted domain [per RFC4381],=20 RFC7762 does not state that it is a trusted domain.=20 =20 If you believe the RFC7752 has stronger security=20 than a trusted domain, can you let me know=20 why you think it is stronger than a trusted domain. =20 =20 If you believe that RFC7752 describes security which=20 is less than a trusted domain, please let me how it is less.=20 =20 The RFC7752 text is below for ease of the IDR and secdir readers.=20 =20 Thank you for providing this feedback,=20 =20 Sue =20 ------------ =20 RFC7752 security section (section 8.) =20 =20 8. Security Considerations =20 Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this document do not affect the BGP security model. See the Security Considerations section of [RFC4271] for a discussion of BGP security. Also refer to [RFC4272] and [RFC6952] for analysis of security issues for BGP =20 In the context of the BGP peerings associated with this document, a BGP speaker MUST NOT accept updates from a consumer peer. That is, a participating BGP speaker should be aware of the nature of its relationships for link-state relationships and should protect itself from peers sending updates that either represent erroneous information feedback loops or are false input. Such protection can be achieved by manual configuration of consumer peers at the BGP speaker. =20 An operator SHOULD employ a mechanism to protect a BGP speaker against DDoS attacks from consumers. The principal attack a consumer may apply is to attempt to start multiple sessions either sequentially or simultaneously. Protection can be applied by imposing rate limits. =20 Additionally, it may be considered that the export of link-state and TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive information about the network. BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such information. =20 =20 =20 From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 Inline. =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:08 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I apologize if my email message was unclear. We both agree that your = draft is not related to SR routing. SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a transport mechanism for information. =20 =20 I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information. However, that = traffic engineering information almost got that draft rejected by the = IESG at the time. As my previous message to this list indicated, we got = agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that information and the = assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a separate set of nodes. = Expanding the traffic engineering information beyond RFC7752 re-opens = all the security issues and questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original = review. =20 =20 [Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am not = saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts to = get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this. If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point. =20 The security directorate reviewer is asking these security questions. = The security directorate does have people with both routing and security = experts. =20 =20 SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752. = The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those original = security questions and issues. =20 =20 [Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related. =20 One way to answer these questions is to provide a RFC7752bis with an = updated security section. If you agree with this approach, I suggest = simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security section. If you = disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a = thread on that point.=20 =20 [Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J So you are asking me to = reference a non-existent document? =20 I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 which = is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 correct? =20 But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has = a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV. I think you at least have to provide a = justification for this dependency before we introduce it and get some = support for your position =E2=80=93 since this will mean = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF state until this = currently non-existent draft becomes an RFC. =20 Les =20 Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? Do you want to = continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?=20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:58 AM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 One of us is confused. J =20 draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those words = do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference to any = SR document. =20 Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion = that we are introducing a new attack vector by defining some = additional(sic) TE codepoints does not make sense to me. =20 I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them. =20 Could you please update your response with these points in mind? =20 Thanx. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM To: 'Robert Raszuk' ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:=20 =20 I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this draft. = However, traffic engineering information does provide information which = is a tempting attack vector.=20 =20 The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted usage = that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP. Since Spring WG = shows that operators are interested in the extended use, it may be time = to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes care of these = security issues. =20 =20 My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the IESG = and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. As a = WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has these drafts = on WG LC without the extra security. Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I am = working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =20 =20 If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is that = we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and handles = these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking this = issue within the WG.=20 =20 If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and Alvaro = would speed this along, I can set this up early next week. It would be = helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR interim session = on 10/26.=20 =20 Thank you for all your comments.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_03E2_01D467D1.A4F51D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

I will respond to this information point by point after I have = responded to Ketan who sent me messages regarding his draft prior to = yours. =C2=A0=C2=A0However, I would like your feedback on whether you = believe RFC7752 has security that is equivalent to, less than, or = greater than a trusted domain?

 

The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default = SR operates within a trusted domain.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It says further: =

 

=E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of best = practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain is = important.=C2=A0 Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381] and are applicable to both SR-MPLS and = SRv6.=E2=80=9D

 

If you believe that RFC7752 describes a trusted domain [per RFC4381], =

RFC7762 does not state that it is a trusted domain. =

 

If you believe the RFC7752 has stronger security =

than a trusted domain, can you let me know

why you think it is stronger than a trusted domain.=C2=A0 =

 

If you believe that RFC7752 describes security which =

is less than a trusted domain, please let me how it is less. =

 

The RFC7752 text is below for ease of the IDR and secdir readers. =

 

Thank you for providing this feedback,

 

Sue

 

------------

 

RFC7752 security section (section 8.) =C2=A0

 

8.=C2=A0 Security Considerations

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this = document do not

=C2=A0=C2=A0 affect the BGP security model.=C2=A0 See the Security = Considerations

=C2=A0=C2=A0 section of [RFC4271] for a discussion of BGP = security.=C2=A0 Also refer to

=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC4272] and [RFC6952] for analysis of security issues = for BGP

 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0In the context of the BGP peerings associated with this = document, a

=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP speaker MUST NOT accept updates from a consumer = peer.=C2=A0 That is, a

=C2=A0=C2=A0 participating BGP speaker should be aware of the nature of = its

=C2=A0=C2=A0 relationships for link-state relationships and should = protect itself

=C2=A0=C2=A0 from peers sending updates that either represent = erroneous

=C2=A0=C2=A0 information feedback loops or are false input.=C2=A0 Such = protection can

=C2=A0=C2=A0 be achieved by manual configuration of consumer peers at = the BGP

=C2=A0=C2=A0 speaker.

 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0An operator SHOULD employ a mechanism to protect a = BGP speaker

=C2=A0=C2=A0 against DDoS attacks from consumers.=C2=A0 The principal = attack a consumer

=C2=A0=C2=A0 may apply is to attempt to start multiple sessions = either

=C2=A0=C2=A0 sequentially or simultaneously.=C2=A0 Protection can be = applied by

=C2=A0=C2=A0 imposing rate limits.

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Additionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and

=C2=A0=C2=A0 TE information as described in this document constitutes = a risk to

=C2=A0=C2=A0 confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially = sensitive

=C2=A0=C2=A0 information about the network.=C2=A0 BGP peerings are = not automatic and

=C2=A0=C2=A0 require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of = the network

=C2=A0=C2=A0 operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are = configured to

=C2=A0=C2=A0 receive such information.

 

 

 

From:= = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: = Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert = Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

Inline.

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 = 10:08 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I apologize if my email message was unclear.   We both = agree that your draft is not related to SR routing.   SR = routing is related to BGP-LS as a transport mechanism for information. =  

 

I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information.  = However, that traffic engineering information almost got that draft = rejected by the IESG at the time.  As my previous message to this = list indicated, we got agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that = information and the assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a = separate set of nodes.  Expanding the traffic engineering = information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security issues and = questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. =  

 

[Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am = not saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts = to get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this.

If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point.

 

The security directorate reviewer is asking these security = questions.  The security directorate does have people with both = routing and security experts.   

 

SR routing is also expanding the information past the original = RFC7752.   The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open = those original security questions and issues.  =

 

[Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related.

 

One way to answer these questions is to provide a  RFC7752bis = with an updated security section.  If you agree with this approach, = I suggest simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security = section.   If you disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is = required, we can start a thread on that point.

 

[Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J  So you are asking me to reference a non-existent = document?

 

I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 = which is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 = correct?

 

But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp = has a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV. I think you at least have to provide a = justification for this dependency before we introduce it and get some = support for your position =E2=80=93 since this will mean = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF state until this = currently non-existent draft becomes an = RFC.

 

   Les

 

Did this message clarify my earlier brief message?  Do you want = to continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:58 AM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

One of us is confused. J

 

draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those = words do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference = to any SR document.

 

Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion that we are = introducing a new attack vector by defining some additional(sic) TE = codepoints does not make sense to me.

 

I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them.

 

Could you please update your response with these points in = mind?

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM
To: 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:

 

I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this = draft.  However, traffic engineering information does provide = information which is a tempting attack vector.

 

The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted = usage that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP.   = Since Spring WG shows that operators are interested in the extended use, = it may be time to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes = care of these security issues. 

 

My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the = IESG and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. =  As a WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has = these drafts on WG LC without the extra = security.

Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I = am working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible.  

 

If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is = that we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and = handles these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking = this issue within the WG.

 

If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and = Alvaro would speed this along, I can set this up early next week.  = It would be helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR = interim session on 10/26.

 

Thank you for all your comments.

 

Sue

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, October 19, = 2018 2:52 AM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_03E2_01D467D1.A4F51D20-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 14:57:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F84130E6F for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UyN4rAP-gGgK for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4335A130E50 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:57:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , References: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> <2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <039a01d467ed$b8056b60$28104220$@ndzh.com> <03b901d467ee$9f5ee220$de1ca660$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <03b901d467ee$9f5ee220$de1ca660$@ndzh.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:57:26 -0400 Message-ID: <040a01d467f6$b9bacd70$2d306850$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_040B_01D467D5.32AC88D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIYYZ/wmBrbToVLwoOqn7WsrZ8NEQKR7ES/Ab1VhMQCfd6RbKRowEOw Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:57:37 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_040B_01D467D5.32AC88D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ketan: I look forward to receiving the next update for this draft today. Let's get some wider review in the IDR on your proposed additions to the security text. Please add to the manageability section the need for developing Yang modules for these features. Since NETMOD, NETCONF and RTGWG are working as fast as they can on basic issue for BGP models, please just put in the need for the yang modules. These yang modules should not hold up the publication of this draft. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:59 PM To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: You may want to pause a moment before editing. I see you sent potential text in email. Let me review that text to see if we are closer. Sue Hares From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 PM To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for your response. See my comments below in [Sue2]. Sue From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: RE: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Hi Sue, Please check inline below. From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regarding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09. The malformed TLV errors appeared to be addressed. The following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) and section 6 (security). Technical/editorial issue 1: In Section 5 Manageability: Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. Please clean up the text. I believe you mean the malformed TLVs can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new text is unclear. I think you mean both. [KT] This draft does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this. [Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. Technical issues 2: What happens if the semantic or content Checking for the TLVS specified in the document finds an error? You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, But please make it specific to what happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or Attribute TLVs are broken. On the NLRI TLVs, what gets tossed? On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? [KT] I will borrow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs being introduced in this draft. [Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is attributes, but you were unclear above. If you borrow the text, you will be fine. Technical issue #3: 5.1 Operational Considerations Please add additional information to indicate: a) Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions to segment routing. b) Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors due to misconfiguration. [KT] I did not quite follow this. There is no additional configuration required for this in BGP or BGP-LS. These are just new attributes from IGP being carried for node, links and prefixes - they are simply additional topological information. Their being related to Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of section 5 which has the reference to the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: It is not just topology, it include the following things besides topology: a) Each notes SR capabilities b) SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, c) SR global base ranges, and d) SR local block ranges. These go beyond sending RFC7752 IGP topology information in BGP. Please indicate what configuration causes you to send SR topology extensions. Potential changes: Nodes configured for Segment routing information send this information. For use cases see ____ spring drafts. Fill in the blank with the correct spring. Technical issue #4: Management considerations Three types of error exist: software errors, configuration errors, and attacks. The operator needs to have logging information or management parameters to track this. The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management parameters to track errors. The logs are a good place to put the error messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules. For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security the attacks. [KT] There is no change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: See my answer to technical issue #3 as to your expansion. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-09 has yang module for IGPs. May I politely suggest that you should extend the BGP yang module with an augmentation for the BGP configuration for Segment routing. If nothing else, Technical issue #5: in Section 6. Security In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section 6 is incorrect. You are changing the information that the BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. You are allowing the node to report on SR algorithms, SR local block information, LAN adjacencies with BGP. This is not just the RFC7752 information and not BGP reachability or flow specification information. So, the statement needs to be augmented. [KT] I would augment the text to include SR specific considerations and references. [Sue2]: Which references would you add? Resolution suggestion: You can state this draft assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these drafts in a global manner. Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_040B_01D467D5.32AC88D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan:

 

I look forward to = receiving the next update for this draft today.  Let’s get = some wider review in the IDR on your proposed additions to the security = text.   

 

Please add to the = manageability section the need for developing Yang modules for these = features.  Since NETMOD, NETCONF and RTGWG are working as fast as = they can on basic issue for BGP models, please just put in the need for = the yang modules.  These yang modules should not hold up the = publication of this draft.

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:59 PM
To: = 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

<= /div>

 

Ketan:

 

You may want to pause a = moment before editing.

 

I see you sent potential = text in email.   Let me review that text to see if we are = closer.

 

Sue Hares =

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 PM
To: = 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

<= /div>

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for your = response.  See my comments below in [Sue2].

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
Sent: = Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM
To: Susan Hares; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder'
Subject: RE: = Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

<= /div>

 

Hi = Sue,

 

Please = check inline below.

 

From: Susan Hares = <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 = 20:45
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; = idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' = <jgs@juniper.net>
Subject: Shepherd's comment on = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you = for addressing many of my issues in regarding = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.   The malformed = TLV errors appeared to be addressed.

 

The = following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) = and section 6 (security). 

 

Technical/editorial  issue = 1:

 In Section 5 = Manageability:  

Your text mixes = malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. 

Please clean up the text.  I believe you mean the = malformed TLVs

can be in either NLRIs = or attributes, but the new text is unclear.

I think you mean both. 

[KT] This draft = does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new = attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify = this.

[Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. =

 

Technical issues 2:  What happens if the = semantic or content

Checking for the = TLVS specified in the document finds an error?

 

You can = borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, =

But please make it specific to what = happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or

Attribute TLVs are broken.   On the NLRI = TLVs, what gets tossed?

On the = Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? =  

[KT] I will borrow that text, but note that = these are just attribute TLVs being introduced in this = draft.

[Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is = attributes, but you were unclear above.  If you borrow the text, = you will be fine.  

 

Technical = issue #3: 

5.1 Operational = Considerations

Please add additional = information to indicate:

a)      Please indicate = what policy is normal to support these extensions to

segment routing.    =

b)     Please indicate how the = operator will know if there are errors

due to misconfiguration.

 

[KT] I did not quite follow this. =

 

There is no additional configuration required = for this in BGP or BGP-LS.

These are just new attributes from IGP being = carried for node, links and prefixes – they are simply additional = topological information.  Their being related to Segment Routing = does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. =

I would = remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of = section 5 which has the reference to the base = RFC7752.

 

[Sue2]:  It is not just topology, it include = the following things besides topology:

a)      = Each notes SR capabilities

b)      = SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, =

c)       = SR global base ranges, and =  

d)      = SR local block ranges.

These go beyond sending = RFC7752 IGP topology information in

BGP.   Please = indicate what configuration causes you to send

SR topology extensions. =

 

Potential changes:  = Nodes configured for Segment routing information

send this information. =  For use cases see ____ spring drafts.

Fill in the blank with the = correct spring.

 

Technical issue #4: Management considerations =

 Three types of error = exist:  software errors, configuration errors,

and attacks.  The operator needs to have logging = information or

management parameters = to track this.

 

The BGP Yang = models are a good place to

put = management parameters to  track errors. 

The = logs are a good place to put the error

messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules.  =

For security attacks, RFC7752bis = will

address security the attacks.

 

[KT] There is no = change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as = BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base = RFC7752.

[Sue2]:  

See my answer to technical = issue #3 as to your expansion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang= -09

 

has yang module for IGPs.  May I politely = suggest

that you = should extend the BGP yang module with

an augmentation for the BGP = configuration

for Segment = routing.   If nothing else,  

 

 

Technical = issue #5:  in Section  6. Security  

In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section = 6

is incorrect.  You are = changing the information that the

BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. =

 

You are allowing the node to report on =

SR algorithms,  SR local block = information,

LAN adjacencies with = BGP.

This is not just the RFC7752 = information and

not BGP reachability = or flow specification information.

 

So, the = statement needs to be augmented.

[KT] I would = augment the text to include SR specific considerations and = references.

[Sue2]:  Which = references would you add?

 

Resolution suggestion:  You can state this = draft

assumes a RFC7752bis that = deals with these

drafts in a global = manner.

 

Susan Hares =

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with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:00:37 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Susan Hares , "'Robert Raszuk'" , "kaduk@mit.edu" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "ynir.ietf@gmail.com" , "secdir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW9XPWYyIUJa0CAw27zofyhmaUihppwgAGMV4D//8FaoIABtlGA///AT8CAAMKMAIAAa5YAgABuEAD//8RJQAAPN8wAAApAKAD///fVgIAATiRw Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:00:37 +0000 Message-ID: <44855683021a4ffbb8070364182d9d53@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.113.215] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_44855683021a4ffbb8070364182d9d53XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:00:50 -0000 --_000_44855683021a4ffbb8070364182d9d53XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U3VlIOKAkw0KDQpJIHdpbGwgbm90IHJlaW5mb3JjZSB5b3VyIGluYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgaW5zZXJ0 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15:27:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 00:27:41 +0200 Message-ID: To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , kaduk@mit.edu, idr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, Yoav Nir , secdir@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e09fbd05789c6904" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:27:53 -0000 --000000000000e09fbd05789c6904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Sue, However, I would like your feedback on whether you believe RFC7752 has > security that is equivalent to, less than, or greater than a trusted > domain? > > > > The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default SR > operates within a trusted domain. > > > > =E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of be= st > practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain is > important. Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381 > ] and are applicable to both SR-MPLS > and SRv6.=E2=80=9D > Reading your comments I am also similarly to Les's feelings quite not sure what the point here is. SR Architecture while completely irrelevant to this thread talks about trusted domain in the context of data plane. Bringing in L3VPNs out of the sudden only because some SR document referred to it's security analysis is also quite a bizarre maneuver. With control plane and especially with BGP the notion of trusted vs untrusted domain is not something anyone can just pick or state on what his or her believe is. The short answer is that BGP operates on a per AFI/SAFI basis and level of trust is directly related to the actual configuration applied including level of policy inserted when using such apparatus to distribute various forms of information. Same SAFI can be configured by one operator quite strictly limiting it to one AS and someone else will like to share his information with entire world publishing it to a looking glass. Are we here to restrict this ? What means of control is there to enforce such restrictions other then perhaps stating simple recommendation in an advisory fashion that one should be a bit careful when publishing content of his LSDB or TED beyond devices he trusts ? ** ** Note that even if TE infrastructure addresses or other information are accidentally leaked - there should be no great immediate harm - since well managed network prevents on ingress to the domain any flows which would aim at internal infrastructure address space. Thx, R. --000000000000e09fbd05789c6904 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Sue,

However, I would like your feedback on= whether you believe RFC7752 has security that is equivalent to, less than,= or greater than a trusted domain?

=C2=A0

The spring routing architecture (= RFC8402) indicates that be default SR operates within a trusted domain.=C2= =A0

<= /u>=C2=A0

Traffic MUST be filtered at the = domain boundaries. The use of best practices to reduce the risk of tamperin= g within the trusted domain is important.=C2=A0 Such practices are discusse= d in [RFC4381] and are applicable to both SR-MPLS and SRv6.= =E2=80=9D



=
Reading your comments I am also similarly to Les's feelings quite = not sure what the point here is.=C2=A0

SR Architec= ture while completely irrelevant to this thread talks about trusted domain = in the context of data plane. Bringing in L3VPNs out of the sudden only bec= ause some SR document referred to it's security analysis is also quite = a bizarre maneuver.=C2=A0

With control plane and e= specially with BGP the notion of trusted vs untrusted domain is not somethi= ng anyone can just pick or state on what his or her believe is.=C2=A0
=

The short answer is that BGP operates on a per AFI/SAFI= basis and level of trust is directly related to the actual configuration a= pplied including level of policy inserted when using such apparatus to dist= ribute various forms of information.=C2=A0

Same SA= FI can be configured by one operator quite strictly limiting it to one AS a= nd someone else will like to share his information with entire world publis= hing it to a looking glass. Are we here to restrict this ? What means of co= ntrol is there to enforce such restrictions other then perhaps stating simp= le recommendation in an advisory fashion that one should be a bit careful w= hen publishing content of his LSDB or TED beyond devices he trusts ? **

** Note that even if TE infrastructure addresses or o= ther information are accidentally leaked - there should be no great immedia= te harm - since well managed network prevents on ingress to the domain any = flows which would aim at internal infrastructure address space.=C2=A0
=

Thx,
R.


--000000000000e09fbd05789c6904-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 15:31:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B3F130E34; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:31:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yA-vSKGH9FK3; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0082812F1AC; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 15:31:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> <44855683021a4ffbb8070364182d9d53@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <44855683021a4ffbb8070364182d9d53@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:31:38 -0400 Message-ID: <043b01d467fb$813ba910$83b2fb30$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_043C_01D467D9.FA2FD570" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAfFlXbIB67+5BAE930AoAZRhPWMClJo7/QIHRbY5osfluzA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:31:48 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_043C_01D467D9.FA2FD570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les: =20 I politely asked for viewpoint on RFC7752=E2=80=99s security since your = draft depends on RFC7752. You have impolitely and harshly refused to = comment on these points. =20 =20 I am focused on finding a resolution to the security directorates = comments on this draft on this thread. One resolution was to suggest a = general resolution by revising the RFC7752 draft. I have spent time = today providing background and reasons why this might be a good = resolution. I see from your comments that you are rejecting this = potential resolution. =20 =20 Propose a resolution to the secdir comments. Please note as your = shepherd and WG chair, stating =E2=80=9Csecurity directorate does not = understand BGP=E2=80=9D is not a resolution. =20 =20 IMHO as shepherd for your document Yoav has a valid point that on = vagueness of RFC7752 and the addition of new information. Please = continue to work with Yoav, Benjamin and the secdir to resolve their = concerns since my resolution has been rejected by you. =20 =20 Sue Hares =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:01 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 I will not reinforce your inappropriate insertion of the discussion of = possible RFC 7752 deficiencies into a thread which is reviewing = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. This is wrong =E2=80=93 please stop it. =20 You want to discuss issues with RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 please start a = separate thread =E2=80=93 directed at the WG (of course) =E2=80=93 and = state your position as a WG member as to what you feel needs to be done. = Then others can comment and the WG can decide whether they agree work = needs to be done. =20 Also - and for the third time - draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is NOT SR = related =E2=80=93 please also stop inserting a discussion of SR/BGP-LS = into the review of this draft. =20 (Apologies for the harsh tone =E2=80=93 but it is becoming increasingly = frustrating to watch this thread being misdirected.) =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:32 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I will respond to this information point by point after I have responded = to Ketan who sent me messages regarding his draft prior to yours. = However, I would like your feedback on whether you believe RFC7752 has = security that is equivalent to, less than, or greater than a trusted = domain?=20 =20 The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default SR = operates within a trusted domain. It says further:=20 =20 =E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of = best practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain = is important. Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381 = ] and are applicable to both = SR-MPLS and SRv6.=E2=80=9D=20 =20 If you believe that RFC7752 describes a trusted domain [per RFC4381],=20 RFC7762 does not state that it is a trusted domain.=20 =20 If you believe the RFC7752 has stronger security=20 than a trusted domain, can you let me know=20 why you think it is stronger than a trusted domain. =20 =20 If you believe that RFC7752 describes security which=20 is less than a trusted domain, please let me how it is less.=20 =20 The RFC7752 text is below for ease of the IDR and secdir readers.=20 =20 Thank you for providing this feedback,=20 =20 Sue =20 ------------ =20 RFC7752 security section (section 8.) =20 =20 8. Security Considerations =20 Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this document do not affect the BGP security model. See the Security Considerations section of [RFC4271] for a discussion of BGP security. Also refer to [RFC4272] and [RFC6952] for analysis of security issues for BGP =20 In the context of the BGP peerings associated with this document, a BGP speaker MUST NOT accept updates from a consumer peer. That is, a participating BGP speaker should be aware of the nature of its relationships for link-state relationships and should protect itself from peers sending updates that either represent erroneous information feedback loops or are false input. Such protection can be achieved by manual configuration of consumer peers at the BGP speaker. =20 An operator SHOULD employ a mechanism to protect a BGP speaker against DDoS attacks from consumers. The principal attack a consumer may apply is to attempt to start multiple sessions either sequentially or simultaneously. Protection can be applied by imposing rate limits. =20 Additionally, it may be considered that the export of link-state and TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive information about the network. BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such information. =20 =20 =20 From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 Inline. =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:08 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I apologize if my email message was unclear. We both agree that your = draft is not related to SR routing. SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a transport mechanism for information. =20 =20 I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information. However, that = traffic engineering information almost got that draft rejected by the = IESG at the time. As my previous message to this list indicated, we got = agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that information and the = assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a separate set of nodes. = Expanding the traffic engineering information beyond RFC7752 re-opens = all the security issues and questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original = review. =20 =20 [Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am not = saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts to = get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this. If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point. =20 The security directorate reviewer is asking these security questions. = The security directorate does have people with both routing and security = experts. =20 =20 SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752. = The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those original = security questions and issues. =20 =20 [Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related. =20 One way to answer these questions is to provide a RFC7752bis with an = updated security section. If you agree with this approach, I suggest = simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security section. If you = disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a = thread on that point.=20 =20 [Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J So you are asking me to = reference a non-existent document? =20 I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 which = is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 correct? =20 But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has = a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV. I think you at least have to provide a = justification for this dependency before we introduce it and get some = support for your position =E2=80=93 since this will mean = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF state until this = currently non-existent draft becomes an RFC. =20 Les =20 Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? Do you want to = continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?=20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:58 AM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 One of us is confused. J =20 draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those words = do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference to any = SR document. =20 Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion = that we are introducing a new attack vector by defining some = additional(sic) TE codepoints does not make sense to me. =20 I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them. =20 Could you please update your response with these points in mind? =20 Thanx. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM To: 'Robert Raszuk' ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:=20 =20 I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this draft. = However, traffic engineering information does provide information which = is a tempting attack vector.=20 =20 The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted usage = that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP. Since Spring WG = shows that operators are interested in the extended use, it may be time = to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes care of these = security issues. =20 =20 My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the IESG = and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. As a = WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has these drafts = on WG LC without the extra security. Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I am = working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =20 =20 If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is that = we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and handles = these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking this = issue within the WG.=20 =20 If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and Alvaro = would speed this along, I can set this up early next week. It would be = helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR interim session = on 10/26.=20 =20 Thank you for all your comments.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_043C_01D467D9.FA2FD570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

I politely asked for viewpoint on RFC7752=E2=80=99s security since = your draft depends on RFC7752. =C2=A0You have impolitely and harshly = refused to comment on these points.=C2=A0

 

I am focused on finding a resolution to the security directorates = comments on this draft on this thread. =C2=A0=C2=A0One resolution was to = suggest a general resolution by revising the RFC7752 draft.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0I have spent time today providing background and reasons why this = might be a good resolution. =C2=A0I see from your comments that you are = rejecting this potential resolution. =C2=A0

 

Propose a resolution to the secdir comments.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Please = note as your shepherd and WG chair, stating =C2=A0=E2=80=9Csecurity = directorate does not understand BGP=E2=80=9D is not a = resolution.=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

IMHO as shepherd for your document Yoav has a valid point that on = vagueness of RFC7752 and the addition of new information.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Please continue to work with Yoav, Benjamin and the secdir to = resolve their concerns since my resolution has been rejected by = you.=C2=A0

 

Sue Hares

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:01 = PM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; = ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

I will not reinforce your inappropriate insertion of the discussion = of possible RFC 7752 deficiencies into a thread which is reviewing = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. This is wrong =E2=80=93 please stop = it.

 

You want to discuss issues with RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 please start a = separate thread =E2=80=93 directed at the WG (of course) =E2=80=93 and = state your position as a WG member as to what you feel needs to be done. = Then others can comment and the WG can decide whether they agree work = needs to be done.

 

Also - and for the third time - draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is NOT SR = related =E2=80=93 please also stop inserting a discussion of SR/BGP-LS = into the review of this draft.

 

(Apologies for the harsh tone =E2=80=93 but it is becoming = increasingly frustrating to watch this thread being = misdirected.)

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 = 2:32 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I will respond to this information point by point after I have = responded to Ketan who sent me messages regarding his draft prior to = yours.   However, I would like your feedback on whether you = believe RFC7752 has security that is equivalent to, less than, or = greater than a trusted domain?

 

The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default = SR operates within a trusted domain.   It says further: =

 

=E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of best = practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain is = important.  Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381] and are applicable to both SR-MPLS and = SRv6.=E2=80=9D

 

If you believe that RFC7752 describes a trusted domain [per RFC4381], =

RFC7762 does not state that it is a trusted domain. =

 

If you believe the RFC7752 has stronger security =

than a trusted domain, can you let me know

why you think it is stronger than a trusted domain.  =

 

If you believe that RFC7752 describes security which =

is less than a trusted domain, please let me how it is less. =

 

The RFC7752 text is below for ease of the IDR and secdir readers. =

 

Thank you for providing this feedback,

 

Sue

 

------------

 

RFC7752 security section (section 8.)  

 

8.  Security Considerations

 

   Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this = document do not

   affect the BGP security model.  See the Security = Considerations

   section of [RFC4271] for a discussion of BGP = security.  Also refer to

   [RFC4272] and [RFC6952] for analysis of security issues = for BGP

 

   In the context of the BGP peerings associated with this = document, a

   BGP speaker MUST NOT accept updates from a consumer = peer.  That is, a

   participating BGP speaker should be aware of the nature of = its

   relationships for link-state relationships and should = protect itself

   from peers sending updates that either represent = erroneous

   information feedback loops or are false input.  Such = protection can

   be achieved by manual configuration of consumer peers at = the BGP

   speaker.

 

    An operator SHOULD employ a mechanism to protect a = BGP speaker

   against DDoS attacks from consumers.  The principal = attack a consumer

   may apply is to attempt to start multiple sessions = either

   sequentially or simultaneously.  Protection can be = applied by

   imposing rate limits.

 

   Additionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and

   TE information as described in this document constitutes = a risk to

   confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially = sensitive

   information about the network.  BGP peerings are = not automatic and

   require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of = the network

   operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are = configured to

   receive such information.

 

 

 

From:= = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM
To: Susan = Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

Inline.

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:08 AM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I apologize if my email message was unclear.   We both = agree that your draft is not related to SR routing.   SR = routing is related to BGP-LS as a transport mechanism for information. =  

 

I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information.  = However, that traffic engineering information almost got that draft = rejected by the IESG at the time.  As my previous message to this = list indicated, we got agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that = information and the assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a = separate set of nodes.  Expanding the traffic engineering = information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security issues and = questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. =  

 

[Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am = not saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts = to get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this.

If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point.

 

The security directorate reviewer is asking these security = questions.  The security directorate does have people with both = routing and security experts.   

 

SR routing is also expanding the information past the original = RFC7752.   The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open = those original security questions and issues.  =

 

[Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related.

 

One way to answer these questions is to provide a  RFC7752bis = with an updated security section.  If you agree with this approach, = I suggest simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security = section.   If you disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is = required, we can start a thread on that point.

 

[Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J  So you are asking me to reference a non-existent = document?

 

I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 = which is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 = correct?

 

But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp = has a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV. I think you at least have to provide a = justification for this dependency before we introduce it and get some = support for your position =E2=80=93 since this will mean = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF state until this = currently non-existent draft becomes an = RFC.

 

   Les

 

Did this message clarify my earlier brief message?  Do you want = to continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:58 AM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

One of us is confused. J

 

draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those = words do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference = to any SR document.

 

Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion that we are = introducing a new attack vector by defining some additional(sic) TE = codepoints does not make sense to me.

 

I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them.

 

Could you please update your response with these points in = mind?

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM
To: 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:

 

I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this = draft.  However, traffic engineering information does provide = information which is a tempting attack vector.

 

The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted = usage that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP.   = Since Spring WG shows that operators are interested in the extended use, = it may be time to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes = care of these security issues. 

 

My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the = IESG and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. =  As a WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has = these drafts on WG LC without the extra = security.

Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I = am working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible.  

 

If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is = that we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and = handles these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking = this issue within the WG.

 

If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and = Alvaro would speed this along, I can set this up early next week.  = It would be helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR = interim session on 10/26.

 

Thank you for all your comments.

 

Sue

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, October 19, = 2018 2:52 AM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

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hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F385D12D4F2; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:01:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 19:01:21 -0400 Message-ID: <046201d467ff$a76ac220$f6404660$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0463_01D467DE.205C7D80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAfFlXbIB67+5BAE930AoAZRhPWOi7MisgA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:01:32 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0463_01D467DE.205C7D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les:=20 =20 I am only going to respond to your many misconceptions inline. =20 =20 Most of the text below are comments which harshly personalizes the = discussion rather than consider that Yoav indicates some of the same = concern regarding the information that I had as your shepherd. =20 =20 You have rejected my suggested resolution of a RFC7752bis as a way to = resolve the security directorates concerns. I will add this fact to = shepherd=E2=80=99s report so that Alvaro and the IESG knows you have = rejected any resolution that involves revising RFC5572=E2=80=99s = security section. =20 =20 It is now up to you to propose a solution that will satisfy SEC-DIR = review. =20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 Inline. =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:08 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I apologize if my email message was unclear. We both agree that your = draft is not related to SR routing. SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a transport mechanism for information. =20 =20 I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information. However, that = traffic engineering information almost got that draft rejected by the = IESG at the time. As my previous message to this list indicated, we got = agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that information and the = assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a separate set of nodes. = Expanding the traffic engineering information beyond RFC7752 re-opens = all the security issues and questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original = review. =20 =20 [Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am not = saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts to = get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this. If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point. =20 [Sue]: You are repeatedly making this a personal issue. As I have = stated in previous messages you were not at in-person authors meetings. = I cannot help if you do not attend IETF discussions with your shepherd = or your co-authors do not relay my concerns. I would ask that you stop = any further personal comments.=20 =20 The security directorate reviewer is asking these security questions. = The security directorate does have people with both routing and security = experts. =20 =20 SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752. = The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those original = security questions and issues. =20 =20 [Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related. =20 [sue]: Why am I mentioning it? They have a reasonable solution to the = security consideration by considering everything as a trusted domain = (see RFC8402), and defining who the BGP peers are. Due to deployments, = I am trying to help you resolve this issue quickly. .=20 =20 One way to answer these questions is to provide a RFC7752bis with an = updated security section. If you agree with this approach, I suggest = simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security section. If you = disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a = thread on that point.=20 =20 [Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J So you are asking me to = reference a non-existent document? =20 [Sue]: I am looking for a solution that will technically resolve the = security concerns. After you agree in principle, I would go to Alvaro = and the IESG and see if we could get a fast-track for the solution. =20 =20 I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 which = is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 correct? =20 [Sue]: I am willing to take this through a fast track IDR document = since it is for the security considerations only. I am willing to go = the extra mile and talk to Routing ADs and the security ADs about a = quick resolution.=20 =20 But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has = a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV.=20 =20 [Sue]: Yoav had the same point of view on the potential security issues = in his original review so I am not the only person that believes there = is a problem. As I mentioned as a shepherd, I would let the SEC-DIR = provide an independent review on whether your security considerations = sections was sufficient. Yoav ruled =E2=80=9Cnot sufficient=E2=80=9D. = =20 At this point, please do not repeat this comment again as it is not = true. Restating it over and over does not make it true. Using words = like =E2=80=9Cdodges the issue=E2=80=9D are not words that progress a = consensus decision forward. =20 =20 I think you at least have to provide a justification for this dependency = before we introduce it and get some support for your position =E2=80=93 = since this will mean draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF = state until this currently non-existent draft becomes an RFC. =20 [Sue]: The solution could be easy =E2=80=93 but you are not willing to = listen regarding the proposed resolution. RFC8402 considers the BGP-LS = for Segment routing to be a trusted domain and provides some additional = comments on BGP peers. My suggestion would have been to revise RFC7752 = to be a trusted domain with some of the same wording. =20 =20 Les =20 Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? Do you want to = continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?=20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:58 AM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 One of us is confused. J =20 draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those words = do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference to any = SR document. =20 Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion = that we are introducing a new attack vector by defining some = additional(sic) TE codepoints does not make sense to me. =20 I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them. =20 Could you please update your response with these points in mind? =20 Thanx. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM To: 'Robert Raszuk' ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:=20 =20 I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this draft. = However, traffic engineering information does provide information which = is a tempting attack vector.=20 =20 The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted usage = that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP. Since Spring WG = shows that operators are interested in the extended use, it may be time = to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes care of these = security issues. =20 =20 My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the IESG = and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. As a = WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has these drafts = on WG LC without the extra security. Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I am = working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =20 =20 If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is that = we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and handles = these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking this = issue within the WG.=20 =20 If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and Alvaro = would speed this along, I can set this up early next week. It would be = helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR interim session = on 10/26.=20 =20 Thank you for all your comments.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_0463_01D467DE.205C7D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les:

 

I am only going to respond to your many misconceptions inline.=C2=A0 =

 

Most of the text below are comments which harshly personalizes the = discussion rather than consider that Yoav indicates some of the same = concern regarding the information that I had as your shepherd.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0

 

You have rejected my suggested resolution of a RFC7752bis as a way to = resolve the security directorates concerns.=C2=A0 I will add this fact = to shepherd=E2=80=99s report so that Alvaro and the IESG knows you have = rejected any resolution that involves revising RFC5572=E2=80=99s = security section.=C2=A0

 

It is now up to you to propose a solution that will satisfy SEC-DIR = review. =C2=A0

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

 

From:= = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: = Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert = Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

Inline.

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 = 10:08 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I apologize if my email message was unclear.   We both = agree that your draft is not related to SR routing.   SR = routing is related to BGP-LS as a transport mechanism for information. =  

 

I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information.  = However, that traffic engineering information almost got that draft = rejected by the IESG at the time.  As my previous message to this = list indicated, we got agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that = information and the assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a = separate set of nodes.  Expanding the traffic engineering = information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security issues and = questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. =  

 

[Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am = not saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts = to get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this.

If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point.

 

[= Sue]: You are repeatedly making this a personal issue.=C2=A0 As I have = stated in previous messages you were not at in-person authors meetings. = I cannot help if you do not attend IETF discussions with your shepherd = or your co-authors do not relay my concerns. =C2=A0I would ask that you = stop any further personal comments.

 

The security directorate reviewer is asking these security = questions.  The security directorate does have people with both = routing and security experts.   

 

SR routing is also expanding the information past the original = RFC7752.   The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open = those original security questions and issues.  =

 

[Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related.

 

[= sue]:=C2=A0 Why am I mentioning it? =C2=A0They have a reasonable = solution to the security consideration by considering everything as a = trusted domain (see RFC8402), and defining who the BGP peers = are.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Due to deployments, I am trying to help you resolve = this issue quickly. .

 

One way to answer these questions is to provide a  RFC7752bis = with an updated security section.  If you agree with this approach, = I suggest simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security = section.   If you disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is = required, we can start a thread on that point.

 

[Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J  So you are asking me to reference a non-existent = document?

 

[= Sue]: I am looking for a solution that will technically resolve the = security concerns.=C2=A0 After you agree in principle, I would go to = Alvaro and the IESG and see if we could get a fast-track for the = solution.=C2=A0

 

I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 = which is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 = correct?

<= o:p> 

[= Sue]:=C2=A0 I am willing to take this through a fast track IDR document = since it is for the security considerations only. =C2=A0I am willing to = go the extra mile and talk to Routing ADs and the security ADs about a = quick resolution.

 

But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp = has a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV.

<= o:p> 

[= Sue]: Yoav had the same point of view on the potential security issues = in his original review so I am not the only person that believes there = is a problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As I mentioned as a shepherd, I would let the = SEC-DIR provide an independent review on whether your security = considerations sections was sufficient. =C2=A0Yoav ruled =E2=80=9Cnot = sufficient=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

<= o:p> 

= At this point, =C2=A0please do not repeat this comment again as it is = not true. =C2=A0Restating it over and over does not make it true. = =C2=A0Using words like =E2=80=9Cdodges the issue=E2=80=9D are not words = that progress a consensus decision forward.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =

 

I think you at least have to provide a justification for this = dependency before we introduce it and get some support for your position = =E2=80=93 since this will mean draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck = in MISSREF state until this currently non-existent draft becomes an = RFC.

<= o:p> 

[= Sue]: =C2=A0The solution could be easy =E2=80=93 but you are not willing = to listen regarding the proposed resolution.=C2=A0 RFC8402 considers the = BGP-LS for Segment routing to be a trusted domain and provides some = additional comments on BGP peers. =C2=A0My suggestion would have been to = revise RFC7752 to be a trusted domain with some of the same = wording.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

 

   Les

 

Did this message clarify my earlier brief message?  Do you want = to continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:58 AM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

One of us is confused. J

 

draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those = words do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference = to any SR document.

 

Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion that we are = introducing a new attack vector by defining some additional(sic) TE = codepoints does not make sense to me.

 

I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them.

 

Could you please update your response with these points in = mind?

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM
To: 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:

 

I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this = draft.  However, traffic engineering information does provide = information which is a tempting attack vector.

 

The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted = usage that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP.   = Since Spring WG shows that operators are interested in the extended use, = it may be time to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes = care of these security issues. 

 

My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the = IESG and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. =  As a WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has = these drafts on WG LC without the extra = security.

Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I = am working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible.  

 

If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is = that we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and = handles these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking = this issue within the WG.

 

If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and = Alvaro would speed this along, I can set this up early next week.  = It would be helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR = interim session on 10/26.

 

Thank you for all your comments.

 

Sue

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, October 19, = 2018 2:52 AM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav =E2=80=93
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP = drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
>
> =E2=80=9CThe = sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to
>  =   advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that = could be
>    sensitive and that an operator may not = want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In regards to the risks = associated with sending information via BGP-LS we have a number of = statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is:
>
> = =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and
>    TE information as described in this = document constitutes a risk to
>    confidentiality of = mission-critical or commercially sensitive
>    = information about the network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as = there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore = hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said.
> = Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the = references.

My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC = the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated with a specific class = of information, *under
the assumption that the transport mechanism is = within a single AS and
administrative domain*.  Yoav is pointing = out that the risks for that
information may change when the = distribution is over a broader domain than
the one for which the = previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_0463_01D467DE.205C7D80-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 16:22:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15D36131096; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.936 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.936 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4RyNmIbn7hIT; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 913F9130ED9; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:21:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'John E Drake'" , "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> <44855683021a4ffbb8070364182d9d53@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <043b01d467fb$813ba910$83b2fb30$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 19:21:50 -0400 Message-ID: <047501d46802$84930d40$8db927c0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0476_01D467E0.FD887220" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAfFlXbIB67+5BAE930AoAZRhPWMClJo7/QIHRbY5AaMT4hcBo/mJ2KKtuYDw Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:22:01 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0476_01D467E0.FD887220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John:=20 =20 Per Les=E2=80=99s request we are trimming any discussion of my suggested = solution to let him focus on resolving the issues with the sec-dir = people. =20 =20 IMHO I do not think Les was close to resolving the issue main issue, but = we both can watch and read as he continues to discuss this point with = the secdir people. As WG chair, I will continue to support resolution = of secdir comments.=20 =20 Respectfully, Sue=20 =20 PS - Your personal comments regarding my email on SR or RFC7752 miss the = point that RFC8402 resolves many issues by declaring the SR area a = trusted domain.=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E Drake Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:41 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)'; 'Robert Raszuk'; = kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hi, =20 Comments inline =20 Yours Irrespectively, =20 John =20 From: Idr On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:32 PM To: 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)' ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I politely asked for viewpoint on RFC7752=E2=80=99s security since your = draft depends on RFC7752. You have impolitely and harshly refused to = comment on these points. =20 =20 I am focused on finding a resolution to the security directorates = comments on this draft on this thread. One resolution was to suggest a = general resolution by revising the RFC7752 draft. I have spent time = today providing background and reasons why this might be a good = resolution. I see from your comments that you are rejecting this = potential resolution.=20 =20 [JD] What part of =E2=80=9Cthis draft has nothing to do with segment = routing=E2=80=9D do you not understand=E2=80=9D?=20 =20 Propose a resolution to the secdir comments. Please note as your = shepherd and WG chair, stating =E2=80=9Csecurity directorate does not = understand BGP=E2=80=9D is not a resolution.=20 =20 [JD] From whom did that direct quote come? I don=E2=80=99t recall = seeing it on the email thread. =20 =20 IMHO as shepherd for your document Yoav has a valid point that on = vagueness of RFC7752 and the addition of new information. Please = continue to work with Yoav, Benjamin and the secdir to resolve their = concerns since my resolution has been rejected by you.=20 =20 [JD] I just re-read the entire email thread on this draft and it = appears to me that that the above is exactly what Les was doing and that = he was quite close to a resolution before you injected RFC 7752bis and = segment routing into the conversation.=20 =20 Sue Hares =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:01 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 I will not reinforce your inappropriate insertion of the discussion of = possible RFC 7752 deficiencies into a thread which is reviewing = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. This is wrong =E2=80=93 please stop it. =20 You want to discuss issues with RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 please start a = separate thread =E2=80=93 directed at the WG (of course) =E2=80=93 and = state your position as a WG member as to what you feel needs to be done. = Then others can comment and the WG can decide whether they agree work = needs to be done. =20 Also - and for the third time - draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is NOT SR = related =E2=80=93 please also stop inserting a discussion of SR/BGP-LS = into the review of this draft. =20 (Apologies for the harsh tone =E2=80=93 but it is becoming increasingly = frustrating to watch this thread being misdirected.) =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:32 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I will respond to this information point by point after I have responded = to Ketan who sent me messages regarding his draft prior to yours. = However, I would like your feedback on whether you believe RFC7752 has = security that is equivalent to, less than, or greater than a trusted = domain?=20 =20 The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default SR = operates within a trusted domain. It says further:=20 =20 =E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of = best practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain = is important. Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381 = = ] and are applicable to both SR-MPLS and SRv6.=E2=80=9D=20 =20 If you believe that RFC7752 describes a trusted domain [per RFC4381],=20 RFC7762 does not state that it is a trusted domain.=20 =20 If you believe the RFC7752 has stronger security=20 than a trusted domain, can you let me know=20 why you think it is stronger than a trusted domain. =20 =20 If you believe that RFC7752 describes security which=20 is less than a trusted domain, please let me how it is less.=20 =20 The RFC7752 text is below for ease of the IDR and secdir readers.=20 =20 Thank you for providing this feedback,=20 =20 Sue =20 ------------ =20 RFC7752 security section (section 8.) =20 =20 8. Security Considerations =20 Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this document do not affect the BGP security model. See the Security Considerations section of [RFC4271] for a discussion of BGP security. Also refer to [RFC4272] and [RFC6952] for analysis of security issues for BGP =20 In the context of the BGP peerings associated with this document, a BGP speaker MUST NOT accept updates from a consumer peer. That is, a participating BGP speaker should be aware of the nature of its relationships for link-state relationships and should protect itself from peers sending updates that either represent erroneous information feedback loops or are false input. Such protection can be achieved by manual configuration of consumer peers at the BGP speaker. =20 An operator SHOULD employ a mechanism to protect a BGP speaker against DDoS attacks from consumers. The principal attack a consumer may apply is to attempt to start multiple sessions either sequentially or simultaneously. Protection can be applied by imposing rate limits. =20 Additionally, it may be considered that the export of link-state and TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive information about the network. BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such information. =20 =20 =20 From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 Inline. =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:08 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Les: =20 I apologize if my email message was unclear. We both agree that your = draft is not related to SR routing. SR routing is related to BGP-LS as = a transport mechanism for information. =20 =20 I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information. However, that = traffic engineering information almost got that draft rejected by the = IESG at the time. As my previous message to this list indicated, we got = agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that information and the = assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a separate set of nodes. = Expanding the traffic engineering information beyond RFC7752 re-opens = all the security issues and questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original = review. =20 =20 [Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am not = saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts to = get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this. If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point. =20 The security directorate reviewer is asking these security questions. = The security directorate does have people with both routing and security = experts. =20 =20 SR routing is also expanding the information past the original RFC7752. = The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open those original = security questions and issues. =20 =20 [Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related. =20 One way to answer these questions is to provide a RFC7752bis with an = updated security section. If you agree with this approach, I suggest = simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security section. If you = disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is required, we can start a = thread on that point.=20 =20 [Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J So you are asking me to = reference a non-existent document? =20 I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 which = is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 correct? =20 But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has = a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV. I think you at least have to provide a = justification for this dependency before we introduce it and get some = support for your position =E2=80=93 since this will mean = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF state until this = currently non-existent draft becomes an RFC. =20 Les =20 Did this message clarify my earlier brief message? Do you want to = continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?=20 =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:58 AM To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Sue =E2=80=93 =20 One of us is confused. J =20 draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those words = do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference to any = SR document. =20 Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 = ) so the suggestion that we are introducing a new = attack vector by defining some additional(sic) TE codepoints does not = make sense to me. =20 I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them. =20 Could you please update your response with these points in mind? =20 Thanx. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM To: 'Robert Raszuk' ; kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:=20 =20 I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this draft. = However, traffic engineering information does provide information which = is a tempting attack vector.=20 =20 The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted usage = that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP. Since Spring WG = shows that operators are interested in the extended use, it may be time = to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes care of these = security issues. =20 =20 My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the IESG = and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. As a = WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has these drafts = on WG LC without the extra security. Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I am = working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible. =20 =20 If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is that = we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and handles = these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking this = issue within the WG.=20 =20 If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and Alvaro = would speed this along, I can set this up early next week. It would be = helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR interim session = on 10/26.=20 =20 Thank you for all your comments.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:52 AM To: kaduk@mit.edu Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Benjamin, =20 Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to IDR regarding this = topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here we are about to = define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into BGP. Well that = has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for that matter = Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security discussion on = RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of it.=20 =20 Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that providing more = information about the network to the potential attacker makes the = network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks and reduce = probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized parties.=20 =20 BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself does provide nice = level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that too and says:=20 =20 "BGP peerings are not automatic and require configuration; thus, it is = the responsibility of the network operator to ensure that only trusted = consumers are configured to receive such information." =20 If someone would be still concerned about configuration mistakes and = negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should not get this data I = recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and restrict the scope = of the distribution even further by mandating default use of NO-EXPORT = community with ability to overwrite it for the selective eBGP peers. Or = perhaps we could progress Jim's One Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01).=20 =20 In either case while both of your comments are great they seems a bit = late in the game here or at least targeting wrong document.=20 =20 Kind regards, Robert. =20 =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Yoav =E2=80=93 >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with advertising the specific = information covered in this draft we have a statement in the IGP drafts: >=20 > From RFC7810 >=20 > =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an operator to > advertise state information of links (bandwidth, delay) that could = be > sensitive and that an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS = we have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant is: >=20 > =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and > TE information as described in this document constitutes a risk to > confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially sensitive > information about the network.=E2=80=9D >=20 > So long as there are references to both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am = therefore hard pressed to understand what else could be usefully said. > Certainly the risks associated with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are = not altered by adding some new TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs = have already covered risks associated with the specific class of = information (not simply the risks associated with the transport = mechanism) you are going to have to provide more specifics on what can = meaningfully be said that is not already covered in the references. My apologies for jumping in in the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have covered the risks associated with a specific class of information, = *under the assumption that the transport mechanism is within a single AS and administrative domain*. Yoav is pointing out that the risks for that information may change when the distribution is over a broader domain = than the one for which the previous analysis was performed. -Ben ------=_NextPart_000_0476_01D467E0.FD887220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John:

 

Per Les=E2=80=99s request we are trimming any discussion of my = suggested solution to let him focus on resolving the issues with the = sec-dir people.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

IMHO I do not think Les was close to resolving the issue main issue, = but we both can watch and read as he continues to discuss this point = with the secdir people.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As WG chair, I will continue to = support resolution of secdir comments.

 

Respectfully, Sue

 

PS - Your personal comments regarding my email on SR or RFC7752 miss = the point that RFC8402 resolves many issues by declaring the SR area a = trusted domain.

=C2=A0

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E = Drake
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:41 PM
To: = Susan Hares; 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)'; 'Robert Raszuk'; = kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hi,

 

Comments inline

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

From: Idr = <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:32 PM
To: = 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)' <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' = <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: = ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; = secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I politely asked for viewpoint on RFC7752=E2=80=99s security since = your draft depends on RFC7752.  You have impolitely and harshly = refused to comment on these points. 

 

I am focused on finding a resolution to the security directorates = comments on this draft on this thread.   One resolution was to = suggest a general resolution by revising the RFC7752 draft.  =  I have spent time today providing background and reasons why this = might be a good resolution.  I see from your comments that you are = rejecting this potential resolution.

 

[JD]  What part of =E2=80=9Cthis draft has nothing to do with = segment routing=E2=80=9D do you not = understand=E2=80=9D? 

 

Propose a resolution to the secdir comments.    Please = note as your shepherd and WG chair, stating  =E2=80=9Csecurity = directorate does not understand BGP=E2=80=9D is not a = resolution. 

 

[JD]  From whom did that direct quote come?  I = don=E2=80=99t recall seeing it on the email thread. 

 

IMHO as shepherd for your document Yoav has a valid point that on = vagueness of RFC7752 and the addition of new information.  =  Please continue to work with Yoav, Benjamin and the secdir to = resolve their concerns since my resolution has been rejected by = you. 

 

[JD]  I just re-read the entire email thread on this draft and = it appears to me that that the above is exactly what Les was doing and = that he was quite close to a resolution before you injected RFC 7752bis = and segment routing into the conversation.

 

Sue Hares

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 6:01 PM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com
Subject= : Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

I will not reinforce your inappropriate insertion of the discussion = of possible RFC 7752 deficiencies into a thread which is reviewing = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp. This is wrong =E2=80=93 please stop = it.

 

You want to discuss issues with RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 please start a = separate thread =E2=80=93 directed at the WG (of course) =E2=80=93 and = state your position as a WG member as to what you feel needs to be done. = Then others can comment and the WG can decide whether they agree work = needs to be done.

 

Also - and for the third time - draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is NOT SR = related =E2=80=93 please also stop inserting a discussion of SR/BGP-LS = into the review of this draft.

 

(Apologies for the harsh tone =E2=80=93 but it is becoming = increasingly frustrating to watch this thread being = misdirected.)

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:32 PM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I will respond to this information point by point after I have = responded to Ketan who sent me messages regarding his draft prior to = yours.   However, I would like your feedback on whether you = believe RFC7752 has security that is equivalent to, less than, or = greater than a trusted domain?

 

The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default = SR operates within a trusted domain.   It says further: =

 

=E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of best = practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain is = important.  Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381] and = are applicable to both SR-MPLS and SRv6.=E2=80=9D =

 

If you believe that RFC7752 describes a trusted domain [per RFC4381], =

RFC7762 does not state that it is a trusted domain. =

 

If you believe the RFC7752 has stronger security =

than a trusted domain, can you let me know

why you think it is stronger than a trusted domain.  =

 

If you believe that RFC7752 describes security which =

is less than a trusted domain, please let me how it is less. =

 

The RFC7752 text is below for ease of the IDR and secdir readers. =

 

Thank you for providing this feedback,

 

Sue

 

------------

 

RFC7752 security section (section 8.)  

 

8.  Security Considerations

 

   Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this = document do not

   affect the BGP security model.  See the Security = Considerations

   section of [RFC4271] for a discussion of BGP = security.  Also refer to

   [RFC4272] and [RFC6952] for analysis of security issues = for BGP

 

   In the context of the BGP peerings associated with this = document, a

   BGP speaker MUST NOT accept updates from a consumer = peer.  That is, a

   participating BGP speaker should be aware of the nature of = its

   relationships for link-state relationships and should = protect itself

   from peers sending updates that either represent = erroneous

   information feedback loops or are false input.  Such = protection can

   be achieved by manual configuration of consumer peers at = the BGP

   speaker.

 

    An operator SHOULD employ a mechanism to protect a = BGP speaker

   against DDoS attacks from consumers.  The principal = attack a consumer

   may apply is to attempt to start multiple sessions = either

   sequentially or simultaneously.  Protection can be = applied by

   imposing rate limits.

 

   Additionally, it may be considered that the export of = link-state and

   TE information as described in this document constitutes = a risk to

   confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially = sensitive

   information about the network.  BGP peerings are = not automatic and

   require configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of = the network

   operator to ensure that only trusted consumers are = configured to

   receive such information.

 

 

 

From:= = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:29 PM
To: Susan = Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

Inline.

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:08 AM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Les:

 

I apologize if my email message was unclear.   We both = agree that your draft is not related to SR routing.   SR = routing is related to BGP-LS as a transport mechanism for information. =  

 

I agree that RFC7752 had traffic engineering information.  = However, that traffic engineering information almost got that draft = rejected by the IESG at the time.  As my previous message to this = list indicated, we got agreement on RFC7752 based on limiting that = information and the assurance that BGP-LS nodes were deployed on a = separate set of nodes.  Expanding the traffic engineering = information beyond RFC7752 re-opens all the security issues and = questions from RFC7752=E2=80=99s original review. =  

 

[Les:] So far, you are the only person who seems aware of this. I am = not saying you are wrong =E2=80=93 I am just saying my private attempts = to get more context for this have thus far failed =E2=80=93 and you have = not provided any documentation of this.

If your statement is accurate (again =E2=80=93 not saying it = isn=E2=80=99t) =E2=80=93 it also seems most unfortunate (and I am being = =E2=80=9Ckind=E2=80=9D here) that this was not mentioned in the course = of the four years that draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp has taken to progress to = this point.

 

The security directorate reviewer is asking these security = questions.  The security directorate does have people with both = routing and security experts.   

 

SR routing is also expanding the information past the original = RFC7752.   The expansions requested by SR routing also re-open = those original security questions and issues.  =

 

[Les:] I do not know why you mention SR here since we both agree this = draft is not SR related.

 

One way to answer these questions is to provide a  RFC7752bis = with an updated security section.  If you agree with this approach, = I suggest simply referring to a RFC7752bis that in your security = section.   If you disagree that an update to the RFC7752bis is = required, we can start a thread on that point.

 

[Les:] There is no RFC7752bis draft. J  So you are asking me to reference a non-existent = document?

 

I understand that you (at least) would like to have one =E2=80=93 = which is perfectly legitimate =E2=80=93 though you should go through the = normal WG process to take this work on =E2=80=93 = correct?

 

But this dodges the question as to whether draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp = has a dependency on enhanced security. So far, you are the only person = making this claim =E2=80=93 and several folks (including myself) have = expressed a different POV. I think you at least have to provide a = justification for this dependency before we introduce it and get some = support for your position =E2=80=93 since this will mean = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would be stuck in MISSREF state until this = currently non-existent draft becomes an = RFC.

 

   Les

 

Did this message clarify my earlier brief message?  Do you want = to continue to discuss the need for RFC7752bis?

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:58 AM
To: Susan Hares; 'Robert Raszuk'; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; secdir@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Sue =E2=80=93

 

One of us is confused. J

 

draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp is not related to Segment Routing. Those = words do not appear anywhere in the document. Nor is there a reference = to any SR document.

 

Further, RFC 7752 includes traffic engineering information (see https://tools.ietf.org/= html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ) so the suggestion that we are = introducing a new attack vector by defining some additional(sic) TE = codepoints does not make sense to me.

 

I appreciate that there are other drafts on your mind which are SR = related =E2=80=93 but this is not one of them.

 

Could you please update your response with these points in = mind?

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Susan = Hares <shares@ndzh.com> =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:26 AM
To: 'Robert = Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>; kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Robert, Benjamin, and Yoav:

 

I agree these context of these issues are not specific to this = draft.  However, traffic engineering information does provide = information which is a tempting attack vector.

 

The original RFC7752 described a different purpose with restricted = usage that SR routing extensions do not adhere to in BGP.   = Since Spring WG shows that operators are interested in the extended use, = it may be time to examine the RFC7752bis or other solutions that takes = care of these security issues. 

 

My job as a shepherd is to point out these issues per draft for the = IESG and security directorate in order to obtain the correct feedback. =  As a WG chair, I have pointed out these issues, but the WG has = these drafts on WG LC without the extra = security.

Without RFC7752bis with additional security in the base document, I = am working as a shepherd make the manageability and security sections as = clear as possible.  

 

If the feedback from the security directorate review or the IESG is = that we need to obtain a solution for RFC7752bis that describes and = handles these security issues, I will be glad to support fast-tracking = this issue within the WG.

 

If an offline discussion with Benjamin, Yoav, the IDR chairs, and = Alvaro would speed this along, I can set this up early next week.  = It would be helpful to have this offline discussion before the IDR = interim session on 10/26.

 

Thank you for all your comments.

 

Sue

 

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, October 19, = 2018 2:52 AM
To: kaduk@mit.edu
Cc: ietf@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org; ynir.ietf@gmail.com; idr@ietf.org; draft-ietf-idr-te-p= m-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir = early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Benjamin,

 

Not sure if you have spotted similar comment made to = IDR regarding this topic, but your comment seems to indicate that here = we are about to define ways to carry nicely scoped IGP information into = BGP. Well that has already happened with RFC7752 and your comment or for = that matter Yoav's remarks are indeed spot on but to the security = discussion on RFC7752 and IMO not any follow up extensions of = it. 

 

Sure - as observed by Sue - one may argue that = providing more information about the network to the potential attacker = makes the network weaker, but the cure for that is to prevent the leaks = and reduce probability of intercepting new information by unauthorized = parties. 

 

BGP-LS is already defined in a new SAFI what by itself = does provide nice level of isolation. RFC7752 is pretty clear on that = too and says: 

 

"BGP peerings are not automatic and require = configuration; thus, it is the responsibility of the network operator to = ensure that only trusted consumers are configured to receive such = information."

 

If someone would be still concerned about = configuration mistakes and negotiating SAFI 71 or 72 to those who should = not get this data I recommend we reissue the RFC7752 as -bis version and = restrict the scope of the distribution even further by mandating default = use of NO-EXPORT community with ability to overwrite it for the = selective eBGP peers. Or perhaps we could progress Jim's One = Administrative Domain draft = (draft-uttaro-idr-oad-01). 

 

In either case while both of your comments are great = they seems a bit late in the game here or at least targeting wrong = document. 

 

Kind regards,

Robert.

 

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:27 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at = 06:00:13PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Yoav = =E2=80=93
>
> In regards to the risks associated with = advertising the specific information covered in this draft we have a = statement in the IGP drafts:
>
> From RFC7810
> =
> =E2=80=9CThe sub-TLVs introduced in this document allow an = operator to
>    advertise state information of links = (bandwidth, delay) that could be
>    sensitive and that = an operator may not want to disclose.=E2=80=9D
>
> In = regards to the risks associated with sending information via BGP-LS we = have a number of statements in RFC 7752 =E2=80=93 most relevant = is:
>
> =E2=80=9CAdditionally, it may be considered that = the export of link-state and
>    TE information as = described in this document constitutes a risk to
>    = confidentiality of mission-critical or commercially = sensitive
>    information about the = network.=E2=80=9D
>
> So long as there are references to = both the IGP RFCs and RFC 7752 I am therefore hard pressed to understand = what else could be usefully said.
> Certainly the risks associated = with the BGP-LS transport mechanism are not altered by adding some new = TLVs =E2=80=93 and since the IGP RFCs have already covered risks = associated with the specific class of information (not simply the risks = associated with the transport mechanism) you are going to have to = provide more specifics on what can meaningfully be said that is not = already covered in the references.

My apologies for jumping in in = the middle, but IIUC the IGP RFCs have
covered the risks associated = with a specific class of information, *under
the assumption that the = transport mechanism is within a single AS and
administrative = domain*.  Yoav is pointing out that the risks for = that
information may change when the distribution is over a broader = domain than
the one for which the previous analysis was = performed.

-Ben

------=_NextPart_000_0476_01D467E0.FD887220-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 16:54:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C886C1310FC; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:54:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2FltK_QVj2w7; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 178461310B4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Robert Raszuk'" Cc: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , , , , , "'Yoav Nir'" , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <00a601d467af$3c4b90f0$b4e2b2d0$@ndzh.com> <028b01d467ce$402b2400$c0816c00$@ndzh.com> <03e101d467f3$2bff9130$83feb390$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 19:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <04c301d46807$05d98bf0$118ca3d0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04C4_01D467E5.7EC8D650" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAfFlXbIB67+5BAE930AoAZRhPWMClJo7/QFrm+9foszUiUA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:54:20 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04C4_01D467E5.7EC8D650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert:=20 =20 I disagree with many of your comment below. However, a discussion of = these points is no longer appropriate on this thread. Les has indicated = my suggested resolution of a revision to RFC7752 is not an acceptable = alternative. He wishes to focus on directly resolving these issues = with the secdir. This thread is closed to any further discussions on a = revision of RFC7752. =20 =20 If you wish to discuss these offline, you can send me email. If you = wish to discuss these on a different thread, please start that specific = thread. =20 =20 Sue =20 PS =E2=80=93 The point of my questions were to explore if recasting the = web of RFC7752 BGP peers as a trusted domain with the restrictions in = RFC8402 would resolve security concerns related to RFC7752. =20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 6:28 PM To: shares@ndzh.com Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); kaduk@mit.edu; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; Yoav Nir; = secdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 Hello Sue, =20 However, I would like your feedback on whether you believe RFC7752 has = security that is equivalent to, less than, or greater than a trusted = domain?=20 =20 The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default SR = operates within a trusted domain.=20 =20 =E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of = best practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain = is important. Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381 = ] and are applicable to both = SR-MPLS and SRv6.=E2=80=9D =20 =20 Reading your comments I am also similarly to Les's feelings quite not = sure what the point here is.=20 =20 SR Architecture while completely irrelevant to this thread talks about = trusted domain in the context of data plane. Bringing in L3VPNs out of = the sudden only because some SR document referred to it's security = analysis is also quite a bizarre maneuver.=20 =20 With control plane and especially with BGP the notion of trusted vs = untrusted domain is not something anyone can just pick or state on what = his or her believe is.=20 =20 The short answer is that BGP operates on a per AFI/SAFI basis and level = of trust is directly related to the actual configuration applied = including level of policy inserted when using such apparatus to = distribute various forms of information.=20 =20 Same SAFI can be configured by one operator quite strictly limiting it = to one AS and someone else will like to share his information with = entire world publishing it to a looking glass. Are we here to restrict = this ? What means of control is there to enforce such restrictions other = then perhaps stating simple recommendation in an advisory fashion that = one should be a bit careful when publishing content of his LSDB or TED = beyond devices he trusts ? ** =20 ** Note that even if TE infrastructure addresses or other information = are accidentally leaked - there should be no great immediate harm - = since well managed network prevents on ingress to the domain any flows = which would aim at internal infrastructure address space.=20 =20 Thx, R. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_04C4_01D467E5.7EC8D650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert:

 

I disagree with many of your comment below. =C2=A0However,=C2=A0 a = discussion of these points is no longer appropriate on this thread. Les = has indicated my suggested resolution of a revision to RFC7752 is not an = acceptable alternative.=C2=A0 =C2=A0He wishes to focus on directly = resolving these issues with the secdir.=C2=A0 This thread is closed to = any further discussions on a revision of RFC7752.=C2=A0 =

 

If you wish to discuss these offline, you can send me email. = =C2=A0=C2=A0If you wish to discuss these on a different thread, please = start that specific thread. =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Sue

 

PS =E2=80=93 The point of my questions were to explore if recasting = the web of RFC7752 BGP peers as a trusted domain with the restrictions = in RFC8402 would resolve security concerns related to RFC7752. = =C2=A0

 

From:= = Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 6:28 PM
To: shares@ndzh.com
Cc: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg); kaduk@mit.edu; idr@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; Yoav Nir; = secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early = review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

Hello Sue,

 

However, I would like your feedback on whether you believe RFC7752 = has security that is equivalent to, less than, or greater than a trusted = domain?

 

The spring routing architecture (RFC8402) indicates that be default = SR operates within a trusted domain. 

 

=E2=80=9CTraffic MUST be filtered at the domain boundaries. The use of best = practices to reduce the risk of tampering within the trusted domain is = important.  Such practices are discussed in [RFC4381] and are applicable to both SR-MPLS = and SRv6.=E2=80=9D

 

 

Reading your comments I am also similarly to Les's = feelings quite not sure what the point here = is. 

 

SR Architecture while completely irrelevant to this = thread talks about trusted domain in the context of data plane. Bringing = in L3VPNs out of the sudden only because some SR document referred to = it's security analysis is also quite a bizarre = maneuver. 

 

With control plane and especially with BGP the notion = of trusted vs untrusted domain is not something anyone can just pick or = state on what his or her believe is. 

 

The short answer is that BGP operates on a per = AFI/SAFI basis and level of trust is directly related to the actual = configuration applied including level of policy inserted when using such = apparatus to distribute various forms of = information. 

 

Same SAFI can be configured by one operator quite = strictly limiting it to one AS and someone else will like to share his = information with entire world publishing it to a looking glass. Are we = here to restrict this ? What means of control is there to enforce such = restrictions other then perhaps stating simple recommendation in an = advisory fashion that one should be a bit careful when publishing = content of his LSDB or TED beyond devices he trusts ? = **

 

** Note that even if TE infrastructure addresses or = other information are accidentally leaked - there should be no great = immediate harm - since well managed network prevents on ingress to the = domain any flows which would aim at internal infrastructure address = space. 

 

Thx,
R.

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_04C4_01D467E5.7EC8D650-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 20:45:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4707124D68; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:45:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154000714276.20287.3920540065159110172@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:45:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:45:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Link-State extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Hannes Gredler Mach(Guoyi) Chen Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2018-10-19 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by routing protocols e.g. by the link state routing protocols (IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) within IGP topologies. This draft defines extensions to the BGP Link-state address-family in order to carry segment routing information via BGP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Oct 19 20:48:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483961271FF for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XU51e1SRstCW for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36C2F127133 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:48:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=31859; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540007288; x=1541216888; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=JVK4HAo2YyM8fQXB3buDUY2hSaUq+EsMyfB308ZkRyw=; b=kxHI6c9i3idg4X27yXoP2F4FM9UvNh/7GnZBluTV1Z1Ln6afH+aqLgle gohNfLUiSb5NJQH1tleqf051y5K6qnkD2kWKHtzPV0r52SqhR+oTpIpaF FnWacMt9MmmOKMG0PxdtPZAdZP45u5Sb4SlA4HLLEai0Vus6m9JBF6QKa 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AEAADKpMpb/40NJK1kGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBUQUBAQEBCwGBDXdmfygKjAOOKHqWGhSBZgsBASOBVIJ1AoU?= =?us-ascii?q?IITQNDQEDAQECAQECbRwMhToBAQEBAy06IgIBCA4DBAEBIQEGBzIUCQgBAQQ?= =?us-ascii?q?BEgiDGoEdZA+nXoQwAoVmBYtPF4FBP4ERgl01gxsBAQOBKwESAVWFJAKJGYU?= =?us-ascii?q?ZhhCJfwkChl6KCB+BT4RzBYg7gSeJJIMxh0WCEgIRFIEmHThkcXAVgyeCJhe?= =?us-ascii?q?IXIU+b4llgR+BHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,402,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="188818569" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Oct 2018 03:48:06 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9K3m6qa006589 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:48:06 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:48:06 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:48:06 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Thread-Index: AdRnuisWxEtXcKIJQRaUqZR9Lc83EQABjtUwABXOawAAADnRAAACBo8AAAG9XtA= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:48:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <01c001d467be$78606f20$69214d60$@ndzh.com> <2e69dce78d4643bca885627782c1fdf6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <039a01d467ed$b8056b60$28104220$@ndzh.com> <03b901d467ee$9f5ee220$de1ca660$@ndzh.com> <040a01d467f6$b9bacd70$2d306850$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <040a01d467f6$b9bacd70$2d306850$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_fa576816ee4c4d60958e27e4fbe292e5XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.19, xch-rcd-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:48:12 -0000 --_000_fa576816ee4c4d60958e27e4fbe292e5XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, I've posted the draft version 10 which addresses all your comments in the t= hread below. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 20 October 2018 03:27 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-rout= ing-ext-09 Ketan: I look forward to receiving the next update for this draft today. Let's ge= t some wider review in the IDR on your proposed additions to the security t= ext. Please add to the manageability section the need for developing Yang module= s for these features. Since NETMOD, NETCONF and RTGWG are working as fast = as they can on basic issue for BGP models, please just put in the need for = the yang modules. These yang modules should not hold up the publication of= this draft. Sue From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:59 PM To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-rout= ing-ext-09 Ketan: You may want to pause a moment before editing. I see you sent potential text in email. Let me review that text to see if= we are closer. Sue Hares From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 PM To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-rout= ing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for your response. See my comments below in [Sue2]. Sue From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' Subject: RE: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ex= t-09 Hi Sue, Please check inline below. From: Susan Hares > Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' > Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09 Ketan: Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regarding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-= ls-segment-routing-ext-09. The malformed TLV errors appeared to be addres= sed. The following technical issues still remain in sections 5 (manageability) a= nd section 6 (security). Technical/editorial issue 1: In Section 5 Manageability: Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attributes. Please clean up the text. I believe you mean the malformed TLVs can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new text is unclear. I think you mean both. [KT] This draft does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only i= ntroduces new attribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this. [Sue2]: Thank you for putting in this code. Technical issues 2: What happens if the semantic or content Checking for the TLVS specified in the document finds an error? You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe, But please make it specific to what happens if the NLRI TLVs are broken or Attribute TLVs are broken. On the NLRI TLVs, what gets tossed? On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get tossed? [KT] I will borrow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs b= eing introduced in this draft. [Sue2]: The text in the draft makes it clear it is attributes, but you were= unclear above. If you borrow the text, you will be fine. Technical issue #3: 5.1 Operational Considerations Please add additional information to indicate: a) Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions t= o segment routing. b) Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors due to misconfiguration. [KT] I did not quite follow this. There is no additional configuration required for this in BGP or BGP-LS. These are just new attributes from IGP being carried for node, links and pr= efixes - they are simply additional topological information. Their being r= elated to Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS = is concerned. I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is text at start of secti= on 5 which has the reference to the base RFC7752. [Sue2]: It is not just topology, it include the following things besides t= opology: a) Each notes SR capabilities b) SR Algorithm for calculating the topology, c) SR global base ranges, and d) SR local block ranges. These go beyond sending RFC7752 IGP topology information in BGP. Please indicate what configuration causes you to send SR topology extensions. Potential changes: Nodes configured for Segment routing information send this information. For use cases see ____ spring drafts. Fill in the blank with the correct spring. Technical issue #4: Management considerations Three types of error exist: software errors, configuration errors, and attacks. The operator needs to have logging information or management parameters to track this. The BGP Yang models are a good place to put management parameters to track errors. The logs are a good place to put the error messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules. For security attacks, RFC7752bis will address security the attacks. [KT] There is no change with configuration, or provisioning or management h= ere as far as BGP or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the= base RFC7752. [Sue2]: See my answer to technical issue #3 as to your expansion. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-09 has yang module for IGPs. May I politely suggest that you should extend the BGP yang module with an augmentation for the BGP configuration for Segment routing. If nothing else, Technical issue #5: in Section 6. Security In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in section 6 is incorrect. You are changing the information that the BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. You are allowing the node to report on SR algorithms, SR local block information, LAN adjacencies with BGP. This is not just the RFC7752 information and not BGP reachability or flow specification information. So, the statement needs to be augmented. [KT] I would augment the text to include SR specific considerations and ref= erences. [Sue2]: Which references would you add? Resolution suggestion: You can state this draft assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these drafts in a global manner. Susan Hares --_000_fa576816ee4c4d60958e27e4fbe292e5XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

I’= ;ve posted the draft version 10 which addresses all your comments in the th= read below.

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 20 October 2018 03:27
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segme= nt-routing-ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

I look forward to rece= iving the next update for this draft today.  Let’s get some wide= r review in the IDR on your proposed additions to the security text.  =  

 

Please add to the mana= geability section the need for developing Yang modules for these features. =  Since NETMOD, NETCONF and RTGWG are working as fast as they can on ba= sic issue for BGP models, please just put in the need for the yang modules.  These yang modules should not hold= up the publication of this draft.

 

Sue =

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:59 PM
To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr= @ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segme= nt-routing-ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

You may want to pause = a moment before editing.

 

I see you sent potenti= al text in email.   Let me review that text to see if we are clos= er.

 

Sue Hares <= /span>

 

 

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 PM
To: 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; idr= @ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segme= nt-routing-ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for your res= ponse.  See my comments below in [Sue2].

 

Sue =

 

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 1:10 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder'
Subject: RE: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-rou= ting-ext-09

 

Hi Sue,=

&n= bsp;

Please = check inline below.

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 19 October 2018 20:45
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@junipe= r.net>
Subject: Shepherd's comment on draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing= -ext-09

 

Ketan:

 

Thank you for addressing many of my issues in regard= ing draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-09.   The malformed= TLV errors appeared to be addressed.

 

The following technical issues still remain in secti= ons 5 (manageability) and section 6 (security). 

 

Technical/editorial  issue 1:=

 In Section 5 Manageability:  <= /p>

Your text mixes malformed TLVs in NLRI and attribute= s. 

Please clean up the text.  I believe you mean t= he malformed TLVs

can be in either NLRIs or attributes, but the new te= xt is unclear.

I think you mean both. 

[KT] This draft = does not introduce nor affect any NLRI encodings. It only introduces new at= tribute TLVs. I will update the text to clarify this.=

[Sue2]: Thank you for putt= ing in this code.

 

Technical issues 2:  What happens if the= semantic or content

Checking for the TLVS specified in the document find= s an error?

 

You can borrow the text from draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-se= gment-routing-epe,

But please make it specific to what happens if the N= LRI TLVs are broken or

Attribute TLVs are broken.   On the NLRI T= LVs, what gets tossed?

On the Attribute TLVs, does the whole attribute get = tossed?  

[KT] I will borr= ow that text, but note that these are just attribute TLVs being introduced = in this draft.

[Sue2]: The text in the dr= aft makes it clear it is attributes, but you were unclear above.  If y= ou borrow the text, you will be fine.  

 

Technical issue #3: 

5.1 Operational Considerations

Please add additional information to indicate: =

a) &n= bsp;    Please indicate what policy is normal to support these extensions to=

segment routing.   

b) &n= bsp;   Please indicate how the operator will know if there are errors<= /o:p>

due to misconfiguration.

 

[KT] I did not quite follow this.

 

There is no additional configuration required for this i= n BGP or BGP-LS.

These are just new attributes from IGP being carried for= node, links and prefixes – they are simply additional topological in= formation.  Their being related to Segment Routing does not change anything as far as BGP or BGP-LS is concerned. =

I would remove this section 5.1 & 5.2 since there is= text at start of section 5 which has the reference to the base RFC7752.

 

[Sue2]:  It is not just topology, it include the following thin= gs besides topology:

a) = ;     Each notes SR capa= bilities

b) = ;    SR Algorithm for c= alculating the topology,

c) = ;     SR global base ran= ges, and  

d) = ;    SR local block ran= ges.

These go beyond sending RF= C7752 IGP topology information in

BGP.   Please in= dicate what configuration causes you to send

SR topology extensions.

 

Potential changes:  N= odes configured for Segment routing information

send this information. &nb= sp;For use cases see ____ spring drafts.

Fill in the blank with the= correct spring.

 

Technical issue #4: Management considerations=

 Three types of error exist:  software err= ors, configuration errors,

and attacks.  The operator needs to have loggin= g information or

management parameters to track this.

 

The BGP Yang models are a good place to

put management parameters to  track errors. 

The logs are a good place to put the error

messages while you wait for BGP Yang modules.  =

For security attacks, RFC7752bis will

address security the attacks.

 

[KT] There is no= change with configuration, or provisioning or management here as far as BG= P or BGP-LS operations are concerned besides what is in the base RFC7752.

[Sue2]:  <= /span>

See my answer to technical= issue #3 as to your expansion.

https://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang-09

 

has yang module for IGPs.  May I politely suggest

that you should extend the BGP yang module with

an augmentation for the BGP configuration

for Segment routing.   If nothing else,  =

 

 

Technical issue #5:  in Section  6.= Security  

In my opinion as a shepherd, the statement in sectio= n 6

is incorrect.  You are changing the information= that the

BGP security model for RFC7752 impacts. <= /p>

 

You are allowing the node to report on

SR algorithms,  SR local block information,

LAN adjacencies with BGP.

This is not just the RFC7752 information and

not BGP reachability or flow specification informati= on.

 

So, the statement needs to be augmented. =

[KT] I would aug= ment the text to include SR specific considerations and references.

[Sue2]:  Which = references would you add?

 

Resolution suggestion:  You can state th= is draft

assumes a RFC7752bis that deals with these

drafts in a global manner.

 

Susan Hares

--_000_fa576816ee4c4d60958e27e4fbe292e5XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 20:53:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16855130E23 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:53:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7uN2mkw4HgbM for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E195127133 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:53:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3839; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540007580; x=1541217180; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=zFpT4APrFmjVBwDnuMygjWQw7JVwSuHXeDMcXCSQ31k=; b=Df3q2bxBd47ZnKn02QiPT1NmoIjGBO9I3pk3mC830l0a6yAfN0TFhtJR ory/npezWMNZ+C71YjVVMqkE0B2EnBKhXyoxlrV97T0tY/81T7hl0S54o uS12Pcb8caU7Uk6A11ezQRTyD7Ay+TpbbLRKUmxaipGl88r79xS5FpZ3e Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AEAAA3pcpb/5xdJa1kGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBUQUBAQEBCwGBVS9mfygKjAOOKJcUgXoLAQEYDYRHAoUIITQ?= =?us-ascii?q?NDQEDAQECAQECbRwMhToBAQEBAwEBODQLDAQCAQgOAwQBAR8JBycLFAkIAgQ?= =?us-ascii?q?OBQiDGoIBD6dehDACDECFH4tPF4FBP4NuNYMbAQECAQEWgROGDgKeQQkChl6?= =?us-ascii?q?KCB+BT0yEJwWJYokkgzGJVwIRFIEmHTiBPg8IcBUaIYJsCYsQhT5viwSBHwE?= =?us-ascii?q?B?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,402,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="465832210" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Oct 2018 03:52:59 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (xch-aln-007.cisco.com [173.36.7.17]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9K3qxZ3022120 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:52:59 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:52:58 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:52:58 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares CC: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Thread-Index: AQHUZ7iSS5TT8vh4NkueJgv8Y0aJyqUnIhkAgABeIRA= Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:52:58 +0000 Message-ID: <638372ca5df64b148e676b57441354ab@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <153995947824.6550.6797438271064339339@ietfa.amsl.com> <02a701d467ce$dd7715c0$98654140$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <02a701d467ce$dd7715c0$98654140$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.95.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xch-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 03:53:03 -0000 Hi Sue, As discussed in the context of the draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ex= t, this EPE draft also draws on both the BGP-LS security model in RFC7752 a= nd the SR Security model in RFC8402. IMO this sufficiently covers the security consideration for this BGP-LS ext= ension and I request you to progress this draft further.=20 As discussed earlier, we can evaluate RFC7752 from security perspective and= I can help with addressing them via an update or a bis, as necessary. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: 19 October 2018 22:42 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: FW: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.= txt Ketan:=20 I do not see any reference to a revised RFC7752 in the security section of this draft. =20 If you agree we need a revised RFC7752 draft, please add this text to the s= ecurity section. =20 "RFC7752 security considerations may need to be expanded to cover the extensions in this draft. The need to extend the RFC7752 security is common to many drafts that utilize BGP-LS defined in RFC7752 so this work = is being undertaken in an RFC7752bis rather than this draft." =20 If you add this, I can start the 1 week review on text. =20 Cheerily, Sue=20 -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.o= rg Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:31 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS extensions for Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Keyur Patel Saikat Ray Jie Dong Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-10-19 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service-based. SR segments allow steering a flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. This document describes an extension to BGP Link State (BGP-LS) for advertisement of BGP Peering Segments along with their BGP peering node information so that efficient BGP Egress Peer Engineering (EPE) policies and strategies can be computed based on Segment Routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-= e pe-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-1 7 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Fri Oct 19 21:42:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36821130E04 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:42:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by 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(mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10310127133 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id o14-v6so32600049ljj.2 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:31:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AJEKWBBjnRA4sC6n6g0BrrOzkGAzky3qQUQvEVtbEbg=; b=D4m0DHH0zzdfH7XZ6j64Wao1Ba6G7mpGNBGVObUIPcQwgvPV3bzdDw/zd4n9SMY0EC 1ynNTjCI/XgY1yXs4VLhp2BARQfDo/x6vMJaYnBL8uqP0HK/fzapomcRz1TkSYFSjF88 j3gwsdET5KcSQIRAabJr8Ak7AJEa9owrr0eDNnwdInd8c0BOThUtWnCciwFuPWfi3C4d Jtt3y4NEmYF46Fii9mHM2WZwx1T/1G41hdGkVtdJSDI+kwl9eazPI+IfvWUdI3T7lNXi sX8cQZ7Iy7AP0bxuRoOK1Rt15IdsnD9tUP38ralOGXfAdjE2yEVoNhSP5CtHpJMhoYFn +4Pg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 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<9d7207cbd2d84aa784689fbf4d747833@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> From: Nikos Triantafillis Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 22:30:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: Susan Hares , acee@cisco.com, Robert Raszuk , idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c3bddd0578a25327" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP session isolation for BGP-LS (and others in general) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:31:15 -0000 --000000000000c3bddd0578a25327 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 for session isolation. Nikos.- On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > < updating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under > review J > > > > > While we are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session > isolation, how about > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 ? > > > > Any feedback/inputs on this mechanism? > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* Idr *On Behalf Of * Susan Hares > *Sent:* 19 October 2018 20:06 > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) ; 'Robert Raszuk' < > robert@raszuk.net> > *Cc:* idr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of > draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt > > > > Robert: > > > > My understanding is that you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the > following draft: > > > > https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 > > > > > I will review the draft for an adoption call later today. You will need > to present at the IDR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions. > > > > Sue > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Susan Hares > *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM > *To:* 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk' > *Cc:* idr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of > draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt > > > > Acee: > > > > Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts. > > > > Sue > > > > *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com ] > *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:05 AM > *To:* Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com > *Cc:* idr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of > draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt > > > > Hi Sue, Robert, > > I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on the > completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I agre= e > that it would be useful. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk < > robert@raszuk.net> > *Date: *Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM > *To: *Susan Hares > *Cc: *IDR List > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Review of > draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt > > > > Hi Sue, > > > > *[KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate > with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or error= s > hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS > topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates > and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error > notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. > However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension an= d > should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that > as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem li= ke > a good idea.* > > > > [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as > > this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. > > > > However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft > > at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the > > IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it > > and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? > > We can talk about it on the 26th. > > > > Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ? > > > > If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned > over weekend. > > > > If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP > Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new T= CP > port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent from > other SAFIs. > > > > Ref: https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 > > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --000000000000c3bddd0578a25327 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1 on=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07=C2=A0for session isolation.
<= br>
Nikos.-

 --000000000000c3bddd0578a25327-- From nobody Fri Oct 19 23:35:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344D31271FF; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:35:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gX6TqzfR757M; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03959124D68; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:35:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=331; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540017309; x=1541226909; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=rDxR7B79YcvdHsUuHz4O2YWBeNVC489i5ygbb4bM0hs=; b=hrUzGHMNxCQBIHGVBCcwSOwx2tz6+GiSh6SCdeGVcxqUBRx211lnobDB y1NTWlPygVVX2na611V790yHCE9BIEaa3tMKzoZO8Gk2kSP3qCkk+O21J Bzv24VHXUAZnW7uhYxLGySZ7F2XU7vI6htH3b6jlU6i2eA4B+QNlSxIFV 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AoAAAXzMpb/4sNJK1kHAEBAQQBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?EAQGBUQcBAQsBggRmfzKMA4wbmSGBegsBASOESYUKITQNDQEDAQECAQECbRw?= =?us-ascii?q?BC4V7PxIBPkImAQQODYMaggEPpyqEPkCFGQWLUReBQT+BEYQ6GQGBWQIDAYc?= =?us-ascii?q?3Aoh0lVEJAoYfP4oIH4FBAY5ojFaJVwIRFIEmHTiBVXAVgyiLGIU+i3yBHwE?= =?us-ascii?q?B?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,402,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="469194091" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Oct 2018 06:35:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9K6Z79a028813 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:35:07 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:35:06 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:35:06 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG adoption request for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions Thread-Index: AdRoPra7h83h+jxtTKqrdWcsb/N75w== Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:35:06 +0000 Message-ID: <0785b8a46a8049989699a5f41a2e371a@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.19, xch-aln-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG adoption request for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:35:11 -0000 Hello, On behalf of the authors of this draft, I would like to request for IDR WG = adoption request for this BGP-LS extension draft that advertises SBFD discr= iminators from IGPs. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ This draft was presented @ IETF 102 in Montreal. Thanks, Ketan From nobody Fri Oct 19 23:37:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048B61271FF; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:37:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7J3AMTV_GQKu; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DDC1124D68; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:37:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=336; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540017443; x=1541227043; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=UWexuh0dDvD5KjxKeyhFZjvsbWA35UvErz3XGVhwuDg=; b=Lib5OAll9QycYo84P/qWpM59ho8jHV3updZRxw9YeZihihqOa9ltcOtj a/ndvWX9VjjJFcKzfHv3r84pNdORF89MEGiQnoWEFCFb+srnRjeXLpome RdyUjg1MRXZZvwGQtWU2cykXK9MrxI/AHum6EdT8x5bHp69zT3iWTsYQT 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AoAACVzMpb/5NdJa1kHAEBAQQBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?EAQGBUQcBAQsBggRmfzKMA4wbmSGBegsBASOESYUKITQNDQEDAQECAQECbRw?= =?us-ascii?q?BC4V7PxIBPkImAQQODYMaggEPpyuEPkCFGQWLUReBQT+FSxkBgVkCAwGHNwK?= =?us-ascii?q?IdJVRCQKGHz+KCB+BQQGOaIxWiVcCERSBJh04gVVwFYMoixiFPot8gR8BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,402,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="469093842" Received: from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Oct 2018 06:37:21 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9K6bLT6016275 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:37:22 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:37:21 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:37:21 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG adoption request for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo Thread-Index: AdRoP1b6XgMwwtUETwyCukRDzuHcVg== Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:37:21 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xch-rcd-008.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG adoption request for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:37:25 -0000 Hello, On behalf of the authors of this draft, I would like to request for IDR WG = adoption request for this BGP-LS extension draft that advertises Flex Algor= ithm Definitions from IGPs. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo/ This draft was presented @ IETF 102 in Montreal. Thanks, Ketan From nobody Fri Oct 19 23:39:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE06130DE1; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:39:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KF4pgFXR91DP; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 025F81271FF; 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20 Oct 2018 06:39:39 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9K6dcE2030182 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:39:39 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:39:38 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:39:38 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG adoption request for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr Thread-Index: AdRoP6mIKE4lg7wbSTmaVKPt/tzykA== Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:39:38 +0000 Message-ID: <59dac5b103f34ca8bdea18c01fad9f6c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.19, xch-rcd-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG adoption request for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:39:42 -0000 Hello, On behalf of the authors of this draft, I would like to request for IDR WG = adoption request for this BGP-LS extension draft that advertises Applicatio= n Specific Link Attributes from IGPs. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr/ Thanks, Ketan From nobody Sat Oct 20 04:15:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F7C12D4EF for ; 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Sat, 20 Oct 2018 04:15:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9d7207cbd2d84aa784689fbf4d747833@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:15:13 +0200 Message-ID: To: ntriantafillis@gmail.com Cc: ketant@cisco.com, shares@ndzh.com, acee@cisco.com, idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d3a5780578a722c8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP session isolation for BGP-LS (and others in general) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:15:26 -0000 --000000000000d3a5780578a722c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Multisessions has been proposed long time back and since then there is hardly any significant support of it in the shipping bgp code. I recall there was a wave of it during times of MTR excitements, but then it apparently faded away. From some of the popular code basis last time I heard that it was even removed as too complex and too buggy. Is there anywhere a valid IETF implementation report of it ? Besides multisessions may if available address only a fraction of the problem - being session isolation from error handling point of view. It gives zero control on the actual process isolation which I am mainly after. I am deploying route reflection on x86 servers and I would like to run on the same hardware and same linux OS two BGP processes IOS for routing and Junos for BGP-LS. How can I do that today without going to VMs, LXCs or injecting additional routes (last assuming that BGP code goes deep to kernel and can lock itself to single IP address on the box) ? How using multisessions can I allocate 4 core to one bgp process and 2 to the other one - cli examples ? Multisessions has been written with one BGP code base in mind - even if multi threaded. That is not a sufficient control of the execution. Yes soon after I wrote TI proposal John updated the multisessions draft to cover part of the use case then declared at IETF in Stockholm "Robert - we got it covered". If there is no interest then it is perfectly fine ... you all can still wait for the day multisessions ships and actually works yet I can refocus on how to run various BGP code code basis with platform virtualization. Well as a matter of fact some newest BGP implementations already support a lot of resource control so defining a new TCP port is really not needed there.It is just a low hanging fruit for the legacy BGP world. Kindest regards, RR. On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:31 AM Nikos Triantafillis < ntriantafillis@gmail.com> wrote: > +1 on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 for > session isolation. > > Nikos.- > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < > ketant@cisco.com> wrote: > >> < updating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under >> review J > >> >> >> >> While we are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session >> isolation, how about >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 ? >> >> >> >> Any feedback/inputs on this mechanism? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ketan >> >> >> >> *From:* Idr *On Behalf Of * Susan Hares >> *Sent:* 19 October 2018 20:06 >> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) ; 'Robert Raszuk' < >> robert@raszuk.net> >> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of >> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >> >> >> >> Robert: >> >> >> >> My understanding is that you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the >> following draft: >> >> >> >> https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 >> >> >> >> >> I will review the draft for an adoption call later today. You will need >> to present at the IDR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions. >> >> >> >> Sue >> >> >> >> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On >> Behalf Of *Susan Hares >> *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM >> *To:* 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk' >> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of >> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >> >> >> >> Acee: >> >> >> >> Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts. >> >> >> >> Sue >> >> >> >> *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com ] >> *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:05 AM >> *To:* Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com >> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of >> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >> >> >> >> Hi Sue, Robert, >> >> I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on th= e >> completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I agr= ee >> that it would be useful. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> >> >> >> *From: *Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk < >> robert@raszuk.net> >> *Date: *Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM >> *To: *Susan Hares >> *Cc: *IDR List >> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Review of >> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >> >> >> >> Hi Sue, >> >> >> >> *[KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate >> with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or erro= rs >> hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS >> topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing update= s >> and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error >> notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. >> However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension a= nd >> should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with tha= t >> as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem l= ike >> a good idea.* >> >> >> >> [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as >> >> this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. >> >> >> >> However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft >> >> at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the >> >> IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it >> >> and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? >> >> We can talk about it on the 26th. >> >> >> >> Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ? >> >> >> >> If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned >> over weekend. >> >> >> >> If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP >> Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new = TCP >> port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent from >> other SAFIs. >> >> >> >> Ref: https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 >> >> >> >> >> Thx, >> >> R. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idr mailing list >> Idr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >> > --000000000000d3a5780578a722c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Multisessions has been proposed long time b= ack and since then there is hardly any significant support of it in the shi= pping bgp code. I recall there was a wave of it during times of MTR excitem= ents, but then it apparently faded away. From some of the popular code basi= s last time I heard that it was even removed as too complex and too buggy.= =C2=A0

Is there anywhere a valid IETF implementation rep= ort of it ?=C2=A0

Besides multisessions may if available= address only a fraction of the problem - being session isolation from erro= r handling point of view. It gives zero control on the actual process isola= tion which I am mainly after.=C2=A0

I am deploying= route reflection on x86 servers and I would like to run on the same hardwa= re and same linux OS two BGP processes IOS for routing and Junos for BGP-LS= . How can I do that today without going to VMs, LXCs or injecting additiona= l routes (last assuming that BGP code goes deep to kernel and can lock itse= lf to single IP address on the box) ? How using multisessions can I allocat= e 4 core to one bgp process and 2 to the other one - cli examples ?

Multisessions has been written with one BGP code base in = mind - even if multi threaded. That is not a sufficient control of the exec= ution.

Yes soon after I wrote TI proposal John upd= ated the multisessions draft to cover part of the use case then declared at= IETF in Stockholm "Robert - we got it covered".=C2=A0
=
If there is no interest then it is perfectly fine ... you al= l can still wait for the day multisessions ships and actually works yet I c= an refocus on how to run various BGP code code basis with platform virtuali= zation. Well as a matter of fact some newest BGP implementations already su= pport a lot of resource control so defining a new TCP port is really not ne= eded there.It is just a low hanging fruit for the legacy BGP world.=C2=A0

Kindest regards,
RR.

=

On Sat, Oct 20,= 2018 at 7:31 AM Nikos Triantafillis <ntriantafillis@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 on=C2=A0https://tools.= ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07=C2=A0for session isola= tion.

Nikos.-

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) <ketant@cisco.= com> wrote:

< up= dating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under review J= >

= =C2=A0

While w= e are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session isolation, how ab= out https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisessi= on-07 ?

= =C2=A0

Any fee= dback/inputs on this mechanism?

= =C2=A0

Thanks,=

Ketan

= =C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 19 October 2018 20:06
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

Robert: =

=C2=A0

My understanding is th= at you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the following draft:

=C2=A0

https://tools...i= etf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01

=C2=A0

I will review the draf= t for an adoption call later today.=C2=A0 You will need to present at the I= DR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions.

=C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

Acee:

=C2=A0

Thank you for your fee= dback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts.

=C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Hi Sue, Robert,<= /u>

I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on the completion of this n= ew work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I agree that it would be use= ful.

Thanks,

Acee<= /span>

=C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>= on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: IDR List <i= dr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[KT] When isolation is not followed the= n the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can = result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The con= cern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow = down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due t= o some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these= are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunte= er to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this he= ar does not seem like a good idea.

=C2=A0

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to ha= ndle this point as

this problem does impact =C2=A0all BGP-LS.=C2= =A0 I like this approach.

=C2=A0

However, if you take this approach we will ne= ed to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can forward th= e other drafts to the

IESG.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can you spin this draft qui= ckly?=C2=A0 I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption call.=C2=A0 Can you get = it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th.<= /span>

=C2=A0

Is your intention to &q= uot;document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ?=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

If this is about docume= nting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over weekend.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

If this is however abou= t solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP Transport Instance draft to WG= status and move BGP-LS to simply use new TCP port making it at least at th= e TCP session level fully independent from other SAFIs.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
--000000000000d3a5780578a722c8-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 05:10:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FA2130DC9 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:10:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URaxcsE-jazM for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com (mail-qk1-x735.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3510B1294D0 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id a193-v6so420616qkc.13 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:10:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dwz/YUyAsO7qLj3AZCsBrvcLFTCutvoWYZCriibU/6M=; b=TqITUPOkehIzw1TDyQy5nf6m1mgfu0Cf186dJ+HvTXHYepQZDYwpU3TpGuKwCM+wK6 Nbg0KUjKXqino9Ekp9Me11ztzIOSIQMiaU6sDu16oJ6LviJlLa75ar0POPa3pevtbGIh UrsZlGJ4DoOiux+98cRrvJRt3LsJNfFDd1mvxmS8em0GDQGXLJLD+q6lbKvyZnSRYqaX NuiiLEu68tgufg/ze4XdbEl9eCckjrXTeIUeYwKQkzF7uy5EeXVFf1hx5EVH3lFPMGg2 dQXZChxI27je5m51nBau4zr416pUbceYSwfgplkIk+VjMtAE2ddOazBQGkGiRSOi9ZbO ihtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dwz/YUyAsO7qLj3AZCsBrvcLFTCutvoWYZCriibU/6M=; b=lPB+aBTzBRK/Xd1gTBzH8keNYPDYslyWlUQs9MfrZSViDi33p206NfZonOpVd9lLRK LiHF4gzWaZjDW7eF+rgO9HWA0c198zy5rDDpQYf9UA2VJVO9nqdcv7hdq7ymjwX1lLqZ luaPXBLGt9Z1fQufYZNkeijxMVdZxGMSghOyWAlWIHHEmbcWoXKT3sxNXcjmHzw02Nej m9ufkj3s9TIAnLaEzINuw1wIN+8jcmKx98NiyK+bPGLNFFlvDxFfORd1Q97AmPqxAK29 3RL73tE7Z5atWD9s0Z0xgSMwrHW5vBiD+HFE0MOfyYMSmlAcMezk1RcGkvQePW5zpzvS C7wg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohh3dZKWxWr/e8ASBUbW/T5v98l7uqyXJGaVxq8mQfS/uVc4MM5 JM8vMI8PTr+Eh7B6J8x++EgUw0RLFvEXB41gIFTT6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV612HzdBpTRS9ktT8McVLgg3660u/AvY1kd4RcVEfvzIdVpqDyqwwnunfGS6sI0AIQc50sO9vz5d02lKK/xyULQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9203:: with SMTP id u3-v6mr35464613qkd.72.1540037432118; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:10:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:10:22 +0200 Message-ID: To: ketant@cisco.com Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001521d90578a7e8d7" Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 12:10:36 -0000 --0000000000001521d90578a7e8d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Ketan, So today I see bunch of new proposals requesting addition of number of new TLVs to BGP-LS Attribute. Some of them will go into attribute along with Node NLRI and some with Link NLRI. I think by all means this is the largest single BGP attribute we ever had and it seems growing daily like a balloon. Most of the TLVs which are defined contain sub-TLVs which can be filled with data in a non limited by any spec fashion. Just few questions: * What happens when someone injects more then 4K of data into this attribute today ? What prevents one from doing so ? * Is attribute discard an acceptable thing for someone who counts of that information operationally simple due to a bug in a new TLV ? * So far error handling proposal stopped at the attribute boundary as most BGP attributes are small, precisely addressing the problem they were invented to solve. Here we are facing a completely different situation .. * Is it acceptable to loose all other address family information if BGP-LS Attribute error or its size impacts the propagation to the extend of bringing down the session ? * What is the limiting factor of the BGP-LS churn (due to the nature of some carried data being quite dynamic) to other address families present either on sender, receiver or route reflector ? Below is the current IANA registry with BGP-LS TLV space ... note that it does not even list sub-TLVs which most if not each of the TLV defines. Do we really want to grow this single BGP Attribute even more ? Thx, R TLV Code Point Description IS-IS TLV/Sub-TLV Reference 0-255 Reserved [RFC7752 ] 256 Local Node Descriptors [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.2 ] 257 Remote Node Descriptors [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.3 ] 258 Link Local/Remote Identifiers 22/4 [RFC5307, Section 1.1 ] 259 IPv4 interface address 22/6 [RFC5305, Section 3.2 ] 260 IPv4 neighbor address 22/8 [RFC5305, Section 3.3 ] 261 IPv6 interface address 22/12 [RFC6119, Section 4.2 ] 262 IPv6 neighbor address 22/13 [RFC6119, Section 4.3 ] 263 Multi-Topology ID [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.5 ] 264 OSPF Route Type [RFC7752, Section 3.2.3 ] 265 IP Reachability Information [RFC7752, Section 3.2.3 ] 266 Node MSD (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-11-02, extension registered 2018-09-07, expires 2019-11-02) 242/23 [ draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd ] 267 Link MSD (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-11-02, extension registered 2018-09-07, expires 2019-11-02) (22,23,25,141,222,223)/15 [ draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd ] 268-511 Unassigned 512 Autonomous System [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.4 ] 513 BGP-LS Identifier [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.4 ] 514 OSPF Area-ID [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.4 ] 515 IGP Router-ID [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.4 ] 516 BGP Router-ID [draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe ] 517 BGP Confederation Member [draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe ] 518-1023 Unassigned 1024 Node Flag Bits [RFC7752, Section 3.3.1.1 ] 1025 Opaque Node Attribute [RFC7752, Section 3.3.1.5 ] 1026 Node Name variable [RFC7752, Section 3.3.1.3 ] 1027 IS-IS Area Identifier variable [RFC7752, Section 3.3.1.2 ] 1028 IPv4 Router-ID of Local Node 134/--- [RFC5305, Section 4.3 ] 1029 IPv6 Router-ID of Local Node 140/--- [RFC6119, Section 4.1 ] 1030 IPv4 Router-ID of Remote Node 134/--- [RFC5305, Section 4.3 ] 1031 IPv6 Router-ID of Remote Node 140/--- [RFC6119, Section 4.1 ] 1032-1033 Unassigned 1034 SR Capabilities [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1035 SR Algorithm [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1036 SR Local Block [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1037 SRMS Preference [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1038-1087 Unassigned 1088 Administrative group (color) 22/3 [RFC5305, Section 3.1 ] 1089 Maximum link bandwidth 22/9 [RFC5305, Section 3.4 ] 1090 Max. reservable link bandwidth 22/10 [RFC5305, Section 3.5 ] 1091 Unreserved bandwidth 22/11 [RFC5305, Section 3.6 ] 1092 TE Default Metric 22/18 [RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.3 ] 1093 Link Protection Type 22/20 [RFC5307, Section 1.2 ] 1094 MPLS Protocol Mask [RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.2 ] 1095 IGP Metric [RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.4 ] 1096 Shared Risk Link Group [RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.5 ] 1097 Opaque Link Attribute [RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.6 ] 1098 Link Name [RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.7 ] 1099 Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj-SID) TLV [ draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1100 LAN Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj-SID) TLV [ draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1101 Peer-Node-SID [draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe ] 1102 Peer-Adj-SID [draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe ] 1103 Peer-Set-SID [draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe ] 1104 Unassigned 1105 RTM Capability 22/40 [RFC8169 ] 1106-1113 Unassigned 1114 Unidirectional Link Delay (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1115 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1116 Unidirectional Delay Variation (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1117 Unidirectional Packet Loss (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1118 Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1119 Unidirectional Available Bandwidth (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1120 Unidirectional Bandwidth Utilization (TEMPORARY - registered 2017-08-18, extension registered 2018-07-20, expires 2019-08-18) [ draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp ] 1121 Graceful-Link-Shutdown TLV [RFC8379 ] 1122-1151 Unassigned 1152 IGP Flags [RFC7752, Section 3.3.3.1 ] 1153 IGP Route Tag [RFC5130 ] 1154 IGP Extended Route Tag [RFC5130 ] 1155 Prefix Metric [RFC5305 ] 1156 OSPF Forwarding Address [RFC2328 ] 1157 Opaque Prefix Attribute [RFC7752, Section 3.3.3.6 ] 1158 Prefix SID [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1159 Range [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1160 Unassigned 1161 SID/Label TLV [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1162-1169 Unassigned 1170 IGP Prefix Attributes [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1171 Source Router-ID [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1172 L2 Bundle Member TLV [draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext ] 1173 Extended Administrative Group (TEMPORARY - registered 2018-04-09, expires 2019-04-09) 22/14 [draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution ][RFC7308 ] 1174-65535 Unassigned --0000000000001521d90578a7e8d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ketan,

So today I see bunch of new proposals requesting addition of number of new= TLVs to BGP-LS Attribute.=C2=A0

Some of them will= go into attribute along with Node NLRI and some with Link NLRI.=C2=A0

I think by all means this is the largest single BGP at= tribute we ever had and it seems growing daily like a balloon. Most of the = TLVs which are defined contain sub-TLVs which can be filled with data in a = non limited by any spec fashion.=C2=A0

Just few qu= estions:=C2=A0

* What happens when someone injects= more then 4K of data into this attribute today ? What prevents one from do= ing so ?=C2=A0

* Is attribute discard an acceptabl= e thing for someone who counts of that information operationally simple due= to a bug in a new TLV ?=C2=A0

* So far error hand= ling proposal stopped at the attribute boundary as most BGP attributes are = small, precisely addressing the problem they were invented to solve. Here w= e are facing a completely different situation ..=C2=A0

=
* Is it acceptable to loose all other address family information if BG= P-LS Attribute error or its size impacts the propagation to the extend of b= ringing down the session ?

* What is the limiting = factor of the BGP-LS churn (due to the nature of some carried data being qu= ite dynamic) to other address families present either on sender, receiver o= r route reflector ?=C2=A0

Below is the current IAN= A registry with BGP-LS TLV space ... note that it does not even list sub-TL= Vs which most if not each of the TLV defines. Do we really want to grow thi= s single BGP Attribute even more ?

Thx,
= R

TLV Code= Point=C2=A0= = [RFC7752, Section 3.2.1.5]268-511= <= td style=3D"padding-left:0.5em;padding-right:0.5em;vertical-align:top">BGP-= LS Identifier514Unassi= gned= = IPv4 R= outer-ID of Remote Node<= /tr>Link P= rotection Type= = <= td style=3D"padding-left:0.5em;padding-right:0.5em;vertical-align:top">[RFC7752, Section 3.3.2.7]<= /tr><= td style=3D"padding-left:0.5em;padding-right:0.5em;vertical-align:top">[dr= aft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe]RTM Ca= pability= = <= td align=3D"center" style=3D"padding-left:0.5em;padding-right:0.5em;vertica= l-align:top">1116= IGP E= xtended Route TagSID/L= abel TLV= =
--0000000000001521d90578a7e8d7-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 05:50:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E77A130E68 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:50:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPcOqR7tRUvE for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4199130E46 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:50:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" Cc: References: <153995947824.6550.6797438271064339339@ietfa.amsl.com> <02a701d467ce$dd7715c0$98654140$@ndzh.com> <638372ca5df64b148e676b57441354ab@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <638372ca5df64b148e676b57441354ab@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:50:22 -0400 Message-ID: <056901d46873$778e4fd0$66aaef70$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQK1AdeRtOqaEv4G84mHnuxn8qCgpAGWhAk8AYgRFV2jTe05QA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 12:50:30 -0000 Ketan: The addition of the following language in the security considerations that indicates that this documents operates within a trusted domain of the segment routing with BGP-LS peer isolation resolves the majority of my concerns. Thank you for adding this language. I encourage other IDR participants concerned about the security of BGP for segment routing to consider whether this language resolves their concerns. Sue Hares --------------- BGP-EPE enables engineering of traffic when leaving the administrative domain via an egress BGP router. Therefore precaution is necessary to ensure that the BGP peering information collected via BGP-LS is limited to specific controllers or applications in a secure manner. By default, Segment Routing operates within a trusted domain (refer Security Considerations section in [RFC8402] for more detail) and its security considerations also apply to BGP Peering Segments. The BGP-EPE policies are expected to be used entirely within this trusted SR domain (e.g. between multiple AS/domains within a single provider network). The isolation of BGP-LS peering sessions is also required to ensure that BGP-LS topology information (including the newly added BGP peering topology) is not advertised to an external BGP peering session outside an administrative domain. -----Original Message----- From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 11:53 PM To: Susan Hares Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Hi Sue, As discussed in the context of the draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext, this EPE draft also draws on both the BGP-LS security model in RFC7752 and the SR Security model in RFC8402. IMO this sufficiently covers the security consideration for this BGP-LS extension and I request you to progress this draft further. As discussed earlier, we can evaluate RFC7752 from security perspective and I can help with addressing them via an update or a bis, as necessary. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 22:42 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: FW: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Ketan: I do not see any reference to a revised RFC7752 in the security section of this draft. If you agree we need a revised RFC7752 draft, please add this text to the security section. "RFC7752 security considerations may need to be expanded to cover the extensions in this draft. The need to extend the RFC7752 security is common to many drafts that utilize BGP-LS defined in RFC7752 so this work is being undertaken in an RFC7752bis rather than this draft." If you add this, I can start the 1 week review on text. Cheerily, Sue -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:31 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS extensions for Segment Routing BGP Egress Peer Engineering Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Keyur Patel Saikat Ray Jie Dong Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-10-19 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages source routing. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service-based. SR segments allow steering a flow through any topological path and service chain while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node of the SR domain. This document describes an extension to BGP Link State (BGP-LS) for advertisement of BGP Peering Segments along with their BGP peering node information so that efficient BGP Egress Peer Engineering (EPE) policies and strategies can be computed based on Segment Routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-e pe-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-1 7 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Sat Oct 20 05:59:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5ED6128B14 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:59:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o__IOUqfqhMp for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E919912D4EC for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 05:58:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:58:41 -0400 Message-ID: <056b01d46874$a0db7920$e2926b60$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_056C_01D46853.19CA4E50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRoc/eEEkdbz0ikQxSRjIJ4bOXiNA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 - 1 week review of changes (10/20/2018 to 10/26/2018). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 12:59:10 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_056C_01D46853.19CA4E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: During the review process of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe draft there has been a number of changes to the draft. Due to the number of changes, it is important to do a working group last call on the changes. This call will end on 10/26/2018. It is the intent of the WG chairs forward this draft to the IESG for publication on 10/26/2018. The WG should examine changes between version -13 and -17.txt. For your ease, -17.txt is at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-17 Susan Hares IDR co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_056C_01D46853.19CA4E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

 

During the review process of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe draft there has been a number = of changes to the draft.   Due to the number of changes, it is = important to do a working group last call on the changes.   = This call will end on 10/26/2018.    It is the intent of = the WG chairs forward this draft to the IESG for publication on = 10/26/2018.

 

The WG should examine changes between version -13 and = -17.txt.  For your ease, -17.txt is at:

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segmen= t-routing-epe-17

 

Susan = Hares

IDR co-chair

 

 

 

=

------=_NextPart_000_056C_01D46853.19CA4E50-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 06:08:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB68712D4E9 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:08:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oVg6w8F2akZy for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72286124BE5 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 06:08:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 09:08:33 -0400 Message-ID: <058401d46876$01952c10$04bf8430$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0585_01D46854.7A840140" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRodeLZjjWEFbtqS06VisslSTyGDQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181019-4, 10/19/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG LC on changes for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 (10/20/2018 to 10/26/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:08:39 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0585_01D46854.7A840140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: During the review process of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext draft there have been a number of changes to the draft. Due to the number of changes, it is important to do a working group last call on the changes. This call will end on 10/26/2018. It is the intent of the WG chairs forward this draft to the IESG for publication on 10/26/2018. For your ease, the latest version is at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 Susan Hares IDR co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_0585_01D46854.7A840140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

 

During the review process of = draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext draft there have been a number = of changes to the draft.   Due to the number of changes, it is = important to do a working group last call on the changes.   = This call will end on 10/26/2018.    It is the intent of = the WG chairs forward this draft to the IESG for publication on = 10/26/2018.

 

For your ease, the latest version is at:  =  

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routin= g-ext-10

 

Susan Hares

IDR = co-chair

 

------=_NextPart_000_0585_01D46854.7A840140-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 08:32:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB64130DD7 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:32:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KBTtrEjbiPZZ for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34B82129BBF for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:32:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: , "'Alvaro Retana'" Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: <05d701d4688a$0e42c760$2ac85620$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_05D8_01D46868.87312760" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRoiPDK9n/c+eDVQQePXbKu0kaSbw== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181020-8, 10/20/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt (10/4/2018 to 10/18/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:32:17 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_05D8_01D46868.87312760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt has completed, and the working group has adopted this draft. The authors should submit a version of this draft as: Draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt. Several important comments were made during the WG adoption on section 4 on re-use of TLVs (by Jie Dong and Ketan Talaulikar), and issues regarding the Inter-AS "Native IP" scenario. For ease, emails for these comments are: Jie Dong: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19924.html Ketan Talaulikar: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19928.html Sue Hares ------=_NextPart_000_05D8_01D46868.87312760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The = adoption call for draft-wang-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt has = completed, and the working group has adopted this draft. =

 

The authors should submit a version of this draft as: =

 

Draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-02.txt. = ; 

 

Several important comments were made during the WG = adoption on section 4 on re-use of TLVs (by Jie Dong and Ketan = Talaulikar), and issues regarding the Inter-AS “Native IP” = scenario.  

 

For ease, =  emails for these comments are:

 

Jie Dong: =

= https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19924.html<= /o:p>

Ketan Talaulikar:

= https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg19928.html<= /o:p>

 

Sue Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_05D8_01D46868.87312760-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 08:38:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C817D130EE1; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:38:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154004989080.13750.4832408936037094517.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:38:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] The IDR WG has placed draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:38:20 -0000 The IDR WG has placed draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions in state Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Susan Hares) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ Comment: Awaiting IPR statements fom authors. From nobody Sat Oct 20 08:57:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE44912D4EB; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LCZO0funQnM6; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F4B4128D68; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 08:57:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: , , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:57:13 -0400 Message-ID: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRoiWXWLIiqumwXT5ms4q0k2sf7Mw== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181020-8, 10/20/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:57:23 -0000 The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements from the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of the working group, the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ Cheerily, Susan Hares From nobody Sat Oct 20 10:17:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D129130DD1 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z1ior1CXvo6f for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (mta6.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4424C128766 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (vs2.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.123]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9KHHTqj010638; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:17:29 +0100 Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365C922044; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:17:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs2.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 211ED22042; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:17:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from 950129200 (58.144-252-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk [62.252.144.58] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9KHHSS9005684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:17:28 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Cc: "'Robert Raszuk'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:17:27 +0100 Message-ID: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQGKzxTtl3Dp+qNLhgwQ+LdrmI+ZAaW7kMWw X-Originating-IP: 62.252.144.58 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24168.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.639-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.639-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24168.001 X-TMASE-Result: 10--2.639500-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: fgYTp5XatxbxIbpQ8BhdbIda6LjYIUbuofZV/2Xa0cLacTb0VZn3bkr2 4C3H1DCPU7/jRpYcW46TMi7co3zfVgx5TL3qCTgE3FqOVb7PDEJ9LQinZ4QefGWCfbzydb0gtEw Mol+sYkINXwNUB3oA790H8LFZNFG76sBnwpOylLMHR2Fgmej35nkndodAJPWA66dKinFkHAg+JZ Opa5qr5CNZwgck38UVPqBVxNfU8wNqPNcXZnIsMMse5lF7mkyur2jKO1ggSb4JAp5AN4f59Q+9N XX1QIs7ki/Tr7VHGv3uvg+PNpx4a37cGd19dSFd X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 17:17:37 -0000 Robert sed: > Do we really want to grow this single BGP Attribute even more ? Time to remind everyone about Yakov's Shakespeare-over-BGP? IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and = stability. If someone wanted to have access to all of the IGP = information and be updated every time anything changed, why would they = not become a silent partner in the IGP? The thing BGP-LS should buy you = is the fact that a BGP implementation is usually quite good at gathering = and correlating routing information, and then applying policy to it. OTOH, it may be that this argument^H^H^H debate was lost some time ago. But maybe the thing here is for the WG to step back and decide what the = point of BGP-LS is, how it should grow, and what controls should be in = place. A topic for the f2f meeting? Best, Adrian From nobody Sat Oct 20 10:30:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06025130DCC for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wjt_PQ_oVPnx for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F889128CF2 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:30:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Robert Raszuk'" , Cc: , , References: <9d7207cbd2d84aa784689fbf4d747833@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:30:13 -0400 Message-ID: <065b01d4689a$8fd7e4d0$af87ae70$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_065C_01D46879.08C9C740" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGuvF4EJlmXrGeNc/KmhOeUJdqIfwJxzqiXAaTBNW+lUwdLwA== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181020-8, 10/20/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP session isolation for BGP-LS (and others in general) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 17:30:24 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_065C_01D46879.08C9C740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ketan, Robert and all: =20 I=E2=80=99d like to pick up on one question Robert asked. If you have = an implementation of multisession code, please let the WG chairs know. = I would love to progress this document if there are 2 implementations = (John=E2=80=99s an author). =20 =20 If there are not implementations, the WG chairs are interested to know = if implementation are planned or if there are problems with this draft.=20 =20 Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 =20 From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 7:15 AM To: ntriantafillis@gmail.com Cc: ketant@cisco.com; shares@ndzh.com; acee@cisco.com; idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP session isolation for BGP-LS (and others in = general) =20 =20 Multisessions has been proposed long time back and since then there is = hardly any significant support of it in the shipping bgp code. I recall = there was a wave of it during times of MTR excitements, but then it = apparently faded away. From some of the popular code basis last time I = heard that it was even removed as too complex and too buggy.=20 =20 Is there anywhere a valid IETF implementation report of it ?=20 =20 Besides multisessions may if available address only a fraction of the = problem - being session isolation from error handling point of view. It = gives zero control on the actual process isolation which I am mainly = after.=20 =20 I am deploying route reflection on x86 servers and I would like to run = on the same hardware and same linux OS two BGP processes IOS for routing = and Junos for BGP-LS. How can I do that today without going to VMs, LXCs = or injecting additional routes (last assuming that BGP code goes deep to = kernel and can lock itself to single IP address on the box) ? How using = multisessions can I allocate 4 core to one bgp process and 2 to the = other one - cli examples ? =20 Multisessions has been written with one BGP code base in mind - even if = multi threaded. That is not a sufficient control of the execution. =20 Yes soon after I wrote TI proposal John updated the multisessions draft = to cover part of the use case then declared at IETF in Stockholm "Robert = - we got it covered".=20 =20 If there is no interest then it is perfectly fine ... you all can still = wait for the day multisessions ships and actually works yet I can = refocus on how to run various BGP code code basis with platform = virtualization. Well as a matter of fact some newest BGP implementations = already support a lot of resource control so defining a new TCP port is = really not needed there.It is just a low hanging fruit for the legacy = BGP world.=20 =20 Kindest regards, RR. =20 =20 On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:31 AM Nikos Triantafillis = wrote: +1 on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 for = session isolation. =20 Nikos.- =20 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) = wrote: < updating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under = review J > =20 While we are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session = isolation, how about = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 ? =20 Any feedback/inputs on this mechanism? =20 Thanks, Ketan =20 From: Idr On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: 19 October 2018 20:06 To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; 'Robert Raszuk' = Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Robert:=20 =20 My understanding is that you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the = following draft:=20 =20 https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 = =20 =20 I will review the draft for an adoption call later today. You will need = to present at the IDR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk' Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Acee: =20 Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:05 AM To: Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Hi Sue, Robert, I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on = the completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I = agree that it would be useful. Thanks, Acee =20 From: Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk = Date: Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: IDR List Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt =20 Hi Sue, =20 [KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate = with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or = errors hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that = BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing = updates and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an = error notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a = likelihood. However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS = extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to = help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear = does not seem like a good idea. =20 [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as=20 this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach.=20 =20 However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft=20 at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the=20 IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it=20 and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend?=20 We can talk about it on the 26th. =20 Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ?=20 =20 If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned = over weekend.=20 =20 If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP = Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new = TCP port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent = from other SAFIs.=20 =20 Ref: https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 = =20 =20 Thx, R. =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr ------=_NextPart_000_065C_01D46879.08C9C740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan, Robert and all:

 

I=E2=80=99d like to pick up on one question Robert asked.=C2=A0 If = you have an implementation of multisession code, please let the WG = chairs know.=C2=A0 I would love to progress this document if there are 2 = implementations (John=E2=80=99s an author).=C2=A0 =

 

If there are not implementations, the WG chairs are interested to = know if implementation are planned or if there are problems with this = draft.

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares

 

From:= = Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]
Sent: Saturday, = October 20, 2018 7:15 AM
To: = ntriantafillis@gmail.com
Cc: ketant@cisco.com; = shares@ndzh.com; acee@cisco.com; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [Idr] BGP session isolation for BGP-LS (and others in = general)

 

 

Multisessions has been proposed long time back and = since then there is hardly any significant support of it in the shipping = bgp code. I recall there was a wave of it during times of MTR = excitements, but then it apparently faded away. From some of the popular = code basis last time I heard that it was even removed as too complex and = too buggy. 

 

Is there anywhere a valid IETF implementation report = of it ? 

 

Besides multisessions may if available address only a = fraction of the problem - being session isolation from error handling = point of view. It gives zero control on the actual process isolation = which I am mainly after. 

 

I = am deploying route reflection on x86 servers and I would like to run on = the same hardware and same linux OS two BGP processes IOS for routing = and Junos for BGP-LS. How can I do that today without going to VMs, LXCs = or injecting additional routes (last assuming that BGP code goes deep to = kernel and can lock itself to single IP address on the box) ? How using = multisessions can I allocate 4 core to one bgp process and 2 to the = other one - cli examples ?

 

Multisessions has been written with one BGP code base = in mind - even if multi threaded. That is not a sufficient control of = the execution.

 

Yes soon after I wrote TI proposal John updated the = multisessions draft to cover part of the use case then declared at IETF = in Stockholm "Robert - we got it = covered". 

 

If there is no interest then it is perfectly fine ... = you all can still wait for the day multisessions ships and actually = works yet I can refocus on how to run various BGP code code basis with = platform virtualization. Well as a matter of fact some newest BGP = implementations already support a lot of resource control so defining a = new TCP port is really not needed there.It is just a low hanging fruit = for the legacy BGP world. 

 

Kindest regards,

RR.

 

 

On = Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:31 AM Nikos Triantafillis <ntriantafillis@gmail.com>= wrote:

 

On = Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> = wrote:

< updating the subject line to = not confuse with a specific draft under review J >

 

While we are doing this analysis = for best way to achieve session isolation, how about https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multises= sion-07 ?

 

Any feedback/inputs on this = mechanism?

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From:= Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan = Hares
Sent: 19 October 2018 20:06
To: Acee Lindem = (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review = of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 <= /o:p>

Robert:

 

My understanding is that you wish me to do a WG = adoption call for the following draft:

 

https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01

 

I will review the draft for an adoption call = later today.  You will need to present at the IDR interim so that = the IDR WG can ask questions.

 

Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 = AM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review = of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 <= /o:p>

Acee:

 

Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the = ordering of the drafts.

 

Sue

 

From:= = Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, = October 19, 2018 10:05 AM
To: Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review = of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 <= /o:p>

Hi Sue, = Robert,

I = don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on the = completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I = agree that it would be useful.

Thanks,=

Acee

 <= /o:p>

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Friday, = October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] = Review of = draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt

 

 

[KT] When isolation is not = followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP = signaling. This can result in update churn or errors hit on one would = affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should = not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow down = convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due to = some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of = these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be = documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with that as a = separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem like a = good idea.

 

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine = way to handle this point as

this problem does impact  all = BGP-LS.  I like this approach.

 

However, if you take this approach we = will need to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can = forward the other drafts to the

IESG.   Can you spin this = draft quickly?  I will be glad to review it =

and do a WG adoption call.  Can = you get it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the = 26th.

 

Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or = solve it ? 

 

If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be = spinned over weekend. 

 

If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP = Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new = TCP port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent = from other SAFIs. 

 

_______________________________________________
Idr = mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

------=_NextPart_000_065C_01D46879.08C9C740-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 10:33:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD50130E7B for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:33:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l1ggoWOX5pEI for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB82D130DD7 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:33:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: , Cc: "'Robert Raszuk'" References: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:33:09 -0400 Message-ID: <067401d4689a$f8814260$e983c720$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGKzxTtl3Dp+qNLhgwQ+LdrmI+ZAQGjgLIhpa57DWA= Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181020-8, 10/20/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 17:33:15 -0000 Adrian: IDR will not be having a f2f meeting in IETF 103, but an interim discussion on 10/26/2018 at 10-12 ET pm. We will ask this question at the interim. Please join us for that discussion. Cheerily, Susan Hares -----Original Message----- From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 1:17 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: 'Robert Raszuk' Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute Robert sed: > Do we really want to grow this single BGP Attribute even more ? Time to remind everyone about Yakov's Shakespeare-over-BGP? IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and stability. If someone wanted to have access to all of the IGP information and be updated every time anything changed, why would they not become a silent partner in the IGP? The thing BGP-LS should buy you is the fact that a BGP implementation is usually quite good at gathering and correlating routing information, and then applying policy to it. OTOH, it may be that this argument^H^H^H debate was lost some time ago. But maybe the thing here is for the WG to step back and decide what the point of BGP-LS is, how it should grow, and what controls should be in place. A topic for the f2f meeting? Best, Adrian _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Sat Oct 20 10:36:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EC7130EEE for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:36:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3vrFPWooX6c for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45611130EDF for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id q40-v6so41953320qte.0 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CN74zAcIbhyxjKa7cOck4Y+NIXayxxoUoDK0xxP/58w=; b=eEpUZMHAHBrJpqeSzJ21Vqp51siDn0VuJs5gfK6R/Um24JP6MVZ4VgmKvXeTSTvLEP 9eFp7YCrJhlseC6dxQ96rhHErQgNeIUD/ysKvUQBTEvInK2ELsnrVy1hFD19LfMYkoEC FTVk3C42prd6sZ7SA1R6NnUd4bzfuWvDpkNXBbkwoljy28zNK+3P2zys6TPHB0b9r8DE FK3atCrOpotR31nRSR0IOztYCJlUP3DhvoF5NzW1PszTNuSeUBcfqmaSsTdY3hskaEWq 8+x8DpOM/Hzneh1KRjXqSu5NUTnlNVcGppS9y6yaFfrzEnjvcf0bvGdbZL87FoGoWStA sANw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CN74zAcIbhyxjKa7cOck4Y+NIXayxxoUoDK0xxP/58w=; b=sVe2gawjuh4x7H92xq7cNJtMml2s7herBY1z5mZRyh4oHYqeJdB8twdTmfWn/AmzQE 5WN/xjlX3y0/22u/UamIhFO6liraIr5c+/FCBYpIB0WCH8bHkPhgM+LBBWhO1LfMdwDx b8YfdWslhS4WD+PE7wK11cBejFPfmJaqCKrDAD4HlZguoHmGuCpp9Q+kVjY1Xc9noJpT AQ4BSxEzHHGEx2dSMixL8JzkS8ysXU7MvS+WKFaBAd/z/vtSL4vTHgLWl/dlMDY+2ctA f8SdkE1NUiSV9LleCs//TvEgucVLNVU8Sjz+06aYLMg2UMYMD2twFgUoflJ2XYf/3cwT w9nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogwIAnZjaUOrRJRnopEgvNlkJG04EU2Oyl64YTJqeDwhVEtYOPy qF/vzrTmVlj96R0u0DA7Pqd1OMKPSquHkNV8jz1CAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61yVLQNndGZXWoFnpnRTAZizWSgF8vzmHj5yNg9pj7klHf5wJb42zs9g6n+zDeNdUmAxwzIkZ8eQnjgNj50+pY= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:d12a:: with SMTP id a39mr38369495qvh.69.1540056995389; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 19:36:26 +0200 Message-ID: To: adrian@olddog.co.uk Cc: idr@ietf.org, ketant@cisco.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000024f5a50578ac76dd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 17:36:46 -0000 --00000000000024f5a50578ac76dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Adrian, > IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and stability. I don't see any summarization in the current encoding as most if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from IGP drafts and RFCs. Stability is also not there as now we have a lot of dynamic data without any new advertise-time thresholds being set - so we are just relying on IGP flooding thresholds. BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free TCP transport. That's it. If our link state protocols would run over TCP from any node to controller (well Henk & Gunter just proposed it for ISIS) or if there would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filtered feed of LSDB or TED over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-LS. So today we are just growing single BGP-LS Attribute. Such attribute content changes depending if it is part of Node NLRI, Link NLRI or Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which are static and which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic when they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an implicit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat everything for given link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call this a "summarization" ? Further imagine controller and operator only needs 10% of the information for his specific application. Well hard luck as there is no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of the attribute content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use. What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-sub message transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And this all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :). Cheers, R. On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:17 PM Adrian Farrel wrote: > Robert sed: > > > Do we really want to grow this single BGP Attribute even more ? > > Time to remind everyone about Yakov's Shakespeare-over-BGP? > > IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and stability. > If someone wanted to have access to all of the IGP information and be > updated every time anything changed, why would they not become a silent > partner in the IGP? The thing BGP-LS should buy you is the fact that a BGP > implementation is usually quite good at gathering and correlating routing > information, and then applying policy to it. > > OTOH, it may be that this argument^H^H^H debate was lost some time ago. > > But maybe the thing here is for the WG to step back and decide what the > point of BGP-LS is, how it should grow, and what controls should be in > place. > > A topic for the f2f meeting? > > Best, > Adrian > > --00000000000024f5a50578ac76dd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Adrian,

> IMHO, two fundamental c= oncepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and stability.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I don't see any summarization in the current encoding = as most if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from IGP= drafts and RFCs.=C2=A0

Stability is also not ther= e as now we have a lot of dynamic data without any new advertise-time thres= holds being set - so we are just relying on IGP flooding thresholds.=C2=A0<= /div>

BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free= TCP transport. That's it. If our link state protocols would run over T= CP from any node to controller (well Henk & Gunter=C2=A0 just proposed = it for ISIS) or if there would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filter= ed feed of LSDB or TED over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-L= S.=C2=A0

So today we are just growing single BGP-L= S Attribute. Such attribute content changes depending if it is part of Node= NLRI, Link NLRI or Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which ar= e static and which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic = when they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an impli= cit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat everything for give= n link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call this a "= summarization" ?

Further imagine controller a= nd operator only needs 10% of the information for his specific application.= Well hard luck as there is no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of= the attribute content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use.=C2=A0

What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-s= ub message transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And th= is all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :).=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.


On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:17 PM A= drian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk= > wrote:
Robert sed:

> Do we really want to grow this single BGP Attribute even more ?

Time to remind everyone about Yakov's Shakespeare-over-BGP?

IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and stability. I= f someone wanted to have access to all of the IGP information and be update= d every time anything changed, why would they not become a silent partner i= n the IGP? The thing BGP-LS should buy you is the fact that a BGP implement= ation is usually quite good at gathering and correlating routing informatio= n, and then applying policy to it.

OTOH, it may be that this argument^H^H^H debate was lost some time ago.

But maybe the thing here is for the WG to step back and decide what the poi= nt of BGP-LS is, how it should grow, and what controls should be in place.<= br>
A topic for the f2f meeting?

Best,
Adrian

--00000000000024f5a50578ac76dd-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 11:07:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F8D130DD6 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:07:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ktof571EIngm for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10E09130DC3 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:07:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:07:24 -0400 Message-ID: <069601d4689f$c1120760$43361620$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0697_01D4687E.3A0103A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRon7aSZTif7sw7TjKZrKI8Zg1Bcg== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181020-8, 10/20/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Discussion on: Growing BGP-LS attributes at interim on October 26th X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:07:29 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0697_01D4687E.3A0103A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: Robert Raszuk's post on growing BGP-LS attributes and the discussion afterward could be a topic the WG discusses. This thread is for people to indicate whether they would like to discuss the Growing BGP-Ls attributes on 10/26/2018 interim (10-12pm). You can find Robert's posts at: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg20023.html And one response (from Adrian Farrell) at: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg20030.html Please continue to discuss adding new BGP-LS attributes is helpful or harmful on that thread. Cheerily, Sue ------=_NextPart_000_0697_01D4687E.3A0103A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

 

Robert Raszuk’s post on growing BGP-LS = attributes and the discussion afterward could be a topic the WG  = discusses.  This thread is for people to indicate whether they = would like to discuss the Growing BGP-Ls attributes on 10/26/2018 = interim (10-12pm).

 

You can find = Robert’s posts at:

= https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg20023.html<= /o:p>

 

And one response (from Adrian Farrell) at: =

= https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/idr/current/msg20030.html<= /o:p>

 

Please continue to discuss adding new BGP-LS = attributes is helpful or harmful on that thread. =   

 

Cheerily, Sue

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0697_01D4687E.3A0103A0-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 11:08:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA14130DC3 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:08:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRuLTQViXYGJ for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52369130DC1 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 11:08:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:08:49 -0400 Message-ID: <06a901d4689f$f3f31570$dbd94050$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_06AA_01D4687E.6CE17570" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRoneqSfOsn84SFSQyCP0v4qZ/MwQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181020-8, 10/20/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] 2nd attempt - WG LC on draft -ietf-idr-eag-distribution (10/21/2018 to 11/3/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:08:56 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_06AA_01D4687E.6CE17570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: This begins a 2nd attempt for a WG LC for draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution. Please consider the following questions as you review this draft for publication: a) The carrying of the Extended Administrative Group (EAG) sub-TLV in BGP is will help deployments of BGP-LS, b) Whether the security consideration statement is sufficient to help operators understand how to deploy this RFC7752 sub-TLV, c) If the deployment of this sub-TLV will help operators administer networks which use BGP-LS information to help manage their network. The IDR chairs do not know of any implementations for this draft. If you know of an y implementation please send a message to the chairs and fill out an implementation report at: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution You can simply indicate you know of an implementation, but we would appreciate any details on the implementation. If you feel that this sub-TLV is one of the growing number of BGP-ls TLVs, please mention this thread as input the WG LC. The general discussion on that topic should go on the "Growing BGP-LS attribute thread". If you wish to discuss this topic at the interim on 10/26/2018, please send your comments to the IDR co-chairs. Cheerily, Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_06AA_01D4687E.6CE17570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings: =

This begins = a 2nd attempt for a WG LC for = draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution.  Please consider the following = questions as you review this draft for = publication:

a)      = The carrying = of the Extended Administrative Group (EAG) sub-TLV in BGP is will help = deployments of BGP-LS,

b)      = Whether the = security consideration statement is sufficient to help operators = understand how to deploy this RFC7752 sub-TLV,

c)      = If the = deployment of this sub-TLV will help operators administer networks which = use BGP-LS information to help manage their network. =  

The IDR = chairs do not know of any implementations for this draft.  If you = know of an y implementation please send a message to the chairs and fill = out an implementation report at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution

You can = simply indicate you know of an implementation, but we would appreciate = any details on the implementation.

If you feel that this sub-TLV is one of the = growing number of BGP-ls TLVs, please mention this thread as input the = WG LC.

 

The general discussion on that topic should = go on the “Growing BGP-LS attribute thread”.  =   If you wish to discuss this topic at the interim on = 10/26/2018, please send your comments to the IDR co-chairs. =

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_06AA_01D4687E.6CE17570-- From nobody Sat Oct 20 18:33:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F60130E00; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:33:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZExYXFJOpYhI; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF728130DEF; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E23906537FC83; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:33:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:33:02 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.120]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:32:57 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org" , "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" Thread-Topic: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). Thread-Index: AdRoiWXWLIiqumwXT5ms4q0k2sf7MwAVDKZg Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 01:32:57 +0000 Message-ID: <19AB2A007F56DB4E8257F949A2FB9858DC498520@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.202.166] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 01:33:10 -0000 Hi, Sue: I am not aware of any relevant IPR. Best Regards, Shunwan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 11:57 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org; 'Ketan Tala= ulikar (ketant)' Subject: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoptio= n call).=20 The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements fro= m the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. =20 WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of th= e working group, the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 From nobody Sun Oct 21 10:44:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549751294D7; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:44:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IDi-Mev0zJLX; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x333.google.com (mail-wm1-x333.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::333]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82E1B1277C8; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x333.google.com with SMTP id 193-v6so8033446wme.3; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=nWFYWvsGvmBpI9y6EwyTL/Ug2BsRvMfBukoF+t+OQOA=; b=bICUxXbMRFQwXMOmp4anhQkyN3Lt1EsLomq1VFhebzsi2MbLmrrpy2JoiM4malY3Cz 6RRRy4Wpr6MEQGtNu7IlXSwDLbBBjBn3ToqCOzLud2QWGOofCQ59QwZWRNcQkJMowJbJ l1IZEN58D/f5cwY2tPyen/KtV3WNg7d7LCkmHEqtpDuXzY81T0FC9uWG89KTV7NOkLXB JRmHEhtvYbQlS07mqckxnttEH+V7aFPDXsXOIxoXsS8RbZ/vpqKvn3KwMCz1HgSGJXzs gJoRMseWhNbHOqrTbcFj+JsJNnU8uKC+jO43mxPWYZVUZuwQhPQUUx2CVpFMG51OF0zw y5YQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=nWFYWvsGvmBpI9y6EwyTL/Ug2BsRvMfBukoF+t+OQOA=; b=MVz8Y+EdAN3CfSDCs4A4oUW7N64uYclyeQOBaIkuJkoXH48ZwzSiBVCez+C3/omFYW kF5Jmtx7J+G4lZyH+0HYEnbd4Qlj+AL4YrrCiuAktZ/WxBbhz3mXGWAcLCcY67yJ/iKD WRJ1YMCE0b9HFJCZtcZ6X/KrloFxF/IfhHSu3sv+OWogDo6+kghATNn2Pm0hpJ4P0Xsi eJxA8x7lEKSYyUFvEqdZUu/uccwZZwQY/t1JA7Z0LAvrz8/aSCQuRK6OoO0DVvIFAnSE zh5uXHkRq+ReSQLxLc2D81jAj+K4oD9nBVmbTLpeJiB6NMLSMf8CMpNEn3otLVSjpp+a TSiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiAK7qDq4/U+iSaGyOKmFVwn620lghMVWyERYTW1i9QhfaVttqW 16rLLTuuAbd6rNUmmJTP1SU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60uRKlyrn9h5BvXdaNLH6ycrBKAKZMvzKgu7YX9tGGuZk+BKiW3cgMf/0PU9oTxQD4SByFWXg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:8c46:: with SMTP id o67-v6mr12688382wmd.35.1540143882832; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] ([46.120.57.147]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b71-v6sm13699853wma.13.2018.10.21.10.44.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Yoav Nir Message-Id: <14949BEE-1EC4-46A0-A1FD-8FE4BCD5D417@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BAF65A53-C2C8-474B-9AB7-839922543D4F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:44:39 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: Robert Raszuk , "kaduk@mit.edu" , "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "secdir@ietf.org" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 17:44:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BAF65A53-C2C8-474B-9AB7-839922543D4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 See inline. > On 19 Oct 2018, at 17:51, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. > =20 > What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism =E2=80= =93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional TE = related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 = ). If this = information had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 = was written it would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 = and no additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been required. > =20 > In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752. > =20 > I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not = as intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship = between them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at = the new draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context = your comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing = is most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. [YN] Right, and as such, I believe that this document should address the = part that it adds to RFC 7752. IOW it should state that the new IGP = information that will now be sent through BGP does not present = new/different risk to the information already defined in 7752. This is = information that has up until now only been sent in IS-IS and OSPF and = will not be sent in BGP, so we need a statement that it=E2=80=99s OK to = send these attributes in BGP as well. Of course, such a statement could = be challenged in WGLC or IETF LC, but it should be made. > The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion. > =20 > I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document =E2=80=93= and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would be helpful = to all if we reached a common understanding or this discussion will take = place every time a BGP-LS extension document is being reviewed =E2=80=93 = which will cost us all time needlessly. > =20 > Les > =20 --Apple-Mail=_BAF65A53-C2C8-474B-9AB7-839922543D4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 See = inline.

On 19 Oct 2018, at 17:51, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

Robert=E2=80=99s post = addresses points I also want to make.
 
What is being done here = is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to advertise IGP information that = was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was written. We haven=E2=80=99t = changed the  BGP-LS transport mechanism =E2=80=93 nor is the = information being advertised here (some additional TE related link = attribute information) qualitatively different than a number of existing = TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information had = already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it = would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no = additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been required.
 
In theory, we could = have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a separate draft, but = practically this would be a poor strategy as it would incorrectly = suggest that some change was being made to the existing text in RFC = 7752.
 
I appreciate that from = the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as intimately familiar = with the routing drafts and the relationship between them. It is = therefore understandable that you start looking at the new draft as a = standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your comments are = absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is most = accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. =

[YN] = Right, and as such, I believe that this document should address the part = that it adds to RFC 7752. IOW it should state that the new IGP = information that will now be sent through BGP does not present = new/different risk to the information already defined in 7752. This is = information that has up until now only been sent in IS-IS and OSPF and = will not be sent in BGP, so we need a statement that it=E2=80=99s OK to = send these attributes in BGP as well. Of course, such a statement could = be challenged in WGLC or IETF LC, but it should be made.

The issues you raise = have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is therefore very = appropriate that we address your concerns by including a reference to = the RFC 7752 security discussion.
 
I = think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document =E2=80=93= and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would be helpful = to all if we reached a common understanding or this discussion will take = place every time a BGP-LS extension document is being reviewed =E2=80=93 = which will cost us all time needlessly.
 
   Les
 

= --Apple-Mail=_BAF65A53-C2C8-474B-9AB7-839922543D4F-- From nobody Sun Oct 21 11:33:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA990130DD1 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:33:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63Io-zycfhPY for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 490F5128CF2 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gEIXT-0003Bx-3R; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:33:23 +0000 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:33:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk Cc: ketant@cisco.com, idr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:33:30 -0000 > I think by all means this is the largest single BGP attribute we ever > had and it seems growing daily like a balloon. Most of the TLVs which > are defined contain sub-TLVs which can be filled with data in a non > limited by any spec fashion. this is scary. as adrian says, if you wanna monitor the igp, then do so directly. this bgp-ls thing is trying to funnel all of bgp and igps; but to no clear end. and, as igps and bgp keep expanding, bgp-ls will only amplify the problem. soon we will have bgp-ls doctors. and i wonder why it does not also funnel dns. :) randy From nobody Sun Oct 21 12:45:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9DD130DDA for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zrhz4muI2iCv for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCCFE130DC1 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id v68-v6so24080111qka.2 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kq5zpQS+k7t8Em1CfalQgjU+BzBRSotxxN3vo6Glog4=; b=GWm7CVtkTChVeHULMN1gUJBtHpEyxNElegQ4IJ+Dlxy1ZsyKGlPRU6mdQP0Oqy4bGz Pp0jDhKEVz3W/GexNN3aymeXCZZV0tU64nG65PVoLBcs10aOlJk7pDzbiQPsaOLQEXUc w3s8p2AruSaEcgjJjVAyEZowVdNC9bcLITUu5Xkh0lTgGGUUsiMXCb5CWHKOM9VeDJxC 7VzjvZ71Z6rUSa2skSUt1qFVAXZL4wUy9/cLft7kdhGO/bg+fIo198RQL5OwgqrLMJDa uNmiFTBKbsSQYgm5cA/H3MT2LqMfbjQA1Ow/SIF0z1JsRE0rxBxaZI5ko+OCIONP+mKP 9xPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kq5zpQS+k7t8Em1CfalQgjU+BzBRSotxxN3vo6Glog4=; b=oREgf55iSEdFU7lz7KFdMsl8+sl8jfqjVcBaLHiBUlOUJzWzH8ScvTwtCoVcL7D0RY 6n7civVm0FPbyDXvdglm8ZjXQzb40hP7326AQZ42goppN8fdwxHAnS0ZXW1R5Aoo/8eO zmxx4C7tDBIW/JTx8rogP3p6Va+uCG4zUKm2wPMoyCmzeAehRnp+WqRxy2W80+b9yEJZ xfiouS+RshIk+Q7OKOeNaRbBzfFhDB21AHVZYf7RAHqYUGp7j3EdNM9SL+Yes701eK5q 3KBbYrEfsIkr3E80M5NdSxHCtdJ9xgZJ7lUUX/gH7RE/vY2DPzcSryFd2j0mQQrRbM7P wrlw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohjLgJo87StgGqwwr53HaRUncXso//BS8d4Q5H/8ctv5ftVUXXw HG3SU0YZqybG1ehm93GJY0QSRFQhWMmWwzYrA/uIYQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60Cf7N1J9FZVg/6uhau+EUe4fy/6SELjYrJXxyB4f5rhLraxXBRu5MEQEKHte0o2MbB90hgSN5cPTOrRpA7VKU= X-Received: by 2002:a37:1610:: with SMTP id g16-v6mr19500518qkh.336.1540151122938; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:45:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 21:45:12 +0200 Message-ID: To: randy@psg.com Cc: ketant@cisco.com, idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000956f3f0578c260a2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:45:27 -0000 --000000000000956f3f0578c260a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > soon we will have bgp-ls doctors. Honestly having to read through all of the recent bgp-ls proposals and extensions there is so much confusion there on what goes to NLRI vs BGP-LS Attribute, what is TLV and when nesting to sub-TLVs makes sense, why do we send different BGP-LS Attribute depending to which NLRI it accompanies etc .. that I think BGP-LS doctor(s) are needed not soon but yesterday. And some of those documents are at the the WG-LC status too ... Yes interestingly no one cares to touch on few other BGP aspects which may come into play. Example: Should BGP-LS be eligible to be packed into BMP (considering recent BMP extension proposals), how the dynamic IGP data be of any use if some BGP still uses long MRAI timer for subsequent updates on the same NLRI etc ... > as adrian says, if you wanna monitor the igp, then do so directly. Well as you know in practice this is not always an option - in fact this is almost never an option in production network ... Controllers running on x86 boxes sit far from routers and are never allowed to connect to them directly. So bringing IGP adjacency between router and such oracle is hard ... even assuming it would be just passive one. That's why TCP is so attractive since as long as server is reachable the session will be formed and bits transferred. On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 8:33 PM Randy Bush wrote: > > I think by all means this is the largest single BGP attribute we ever > > had and it seems growing daily like a balloon. Most of the TLVs which > > are defined contain sub-TLVs which can be filled with data in a non > > limited by any spec fashion. > > this is scary. as adrian says, if you wanna monitor the igp, then do so > directly. this bgp-ls thing is trying to funnel all of bgp and igps; > but to no clear end. and, as igps and bgp keep expanding, bgp-ls will > only amplify the problem. soon we will have bgp-ls doctors. > > and i wonder why it does not also funnel dns. :) > > randy > --000000000000956f3f0578c260a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> soon we will have bgp-ls doctors.=C2= =A0=C2=A0

Honestly having to read through all of the= recent bgp-ls proposals and extensions there is so much confusion there on= what goes to NLRI vs BGP-LS Attribute, what is TLV and when nesting to sub= -TLVs makes sense, why do we send different BGP-LS Attribute depending to w= hich NLRI it accompanies etc .. that I think BGP-LS doctor(s) are needed no= t soon but yesterday. And some of those documents are at the the WG-LC stat= us too ...=C2=A0

Yes interestingly no one cares to= touch on few other BGP aspects which may come into play. Example: Should B= GP-LS be eligible to be packed into BMP (considering recent BMP extension p= roposals), how the dynamic IGP data be of any use if some BGP still uses lo= ng MRAI timer for subsequent updates on the same NLRI etc ...=C2=A0

> as adrian says, if you wanna monitor the igp, then d= o so directly.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

Well as you k= now in practice this is not always an option - in fact this is almost never= an option in production network ... Controllers running on x86 boxes sit f= ar from routers and are never allowed to connect to them directly. So bring= ing IGP adjacency between router and such oracle is hard ... even assuming = it would be just passive one. That's why TCP is so attractive since as = long as server is reachable the session will be formed and bits transferred= .=C2=A0


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 8:33 PM Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
> I think by all means this is the largest single BGP attribute = we ever
> had and it seems growing daily like a balloon. Most of the TLVs which<= br> > are defined contain sub-TLVs which can be filled with data in a non > limited by any spec fashion.

this is scary.=C2=A0 as adrian says, if you wanna monitor the igp, then do = so
directly.=C2=A0 this bgp-ls thing is trying to funnel all of bgp and igps;<= br> but to no clear end.=C2=A0 and, as igps and bgp keep expanding, bgp-ls will=
only amplify the problem.=C2=A0 soon we will have bgp-ls doctors.

and i wonder why it does not also funnel dns. :)

randy
--000000000000956f3f0578c260a2-- From nobody Sun Oct 21 12:49:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B836D130E81 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:49:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OhAKKA2jdVza for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E40A130E7F for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gEJit-0003Pg-8S; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:49:15 +0000 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 12:49:14 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk Cc: ketant@cisco.com, idr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:49:21 -0000 >> as adrian says, if you wanna monitor the igp, then do so directly. > Well as you know in practice this is not always an option - in fact > this is almost never an option in production network while i agree with "not always," i strongly disagree with "almost never." my experience is that it usually is an option. in operation, the weakness is good igp monitoring software; much suckage, especially for is-is. randy From nobody Sun Oct 21 13:29:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D916E130E88; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:29:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154015374882.10784.3258675497295451253@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:29:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:29:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS Advertisement of IGP Traffic Engineering Performance Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Qin Wu Jeff Tantsura Clarence Filsfils Filename : draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-10-21 Abstract: This document defines new BGP-LS TLVs in order to carry the IGP Traffic Engineering Extensions defined in IS-IS and OSPF protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Oct 21 13:33:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B3F130DEE; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:33:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aYE3svPChysl; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 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(No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55B87130DC1 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 14:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id k11-v6so3125013lja.5 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 14:00:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nZDHfexFxmkfjR9ZdFVt0SSlFhh71FJ0NW6WFq15+DY=; b=e4txNK62ePI5kBVz5Q+jPdz2r2iSLNKZN9nWarxrHN7/qjMWiXfoJrE57pt189fbxV tg/s6Sz2c9Uyh1xfPq49Um5z8/gwZcekz8EIhHh8YgbgoqnDKdYCeYe7UjpVHgybknk6 XO0b0iOimKCtZDbplerMLaTMLaHVe+oZ+vfb7C5boJFzV05JGoklG6ugdJ0Bov0PHP80 REEB3T0NTOXx7GuhG60RtDIQ44OvUCxjjJk+dlx1zejv6JMAIP0MnjitwNhPXXa0Sc0E qdpRR9ivSc6r7CUngj7/Gc8s7+c6+udOng8UFKnbklTUi4hvFHNRbnaEEXIeO+5wfC42 RH6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nZDHfexFxmkfjR9ZdFVt0SSlFhh71FJ0NW6WFq15+DY=; b=H4CzFospn3s56FG/vDLJ0F/ftoX16iLQZI6FV+35MuEHE+rW98pD9WJyhG6TDrn2wP S+etcLl/GiyYo8ZNxjTw9/bYvrWijg/q5GWrLmSExwMy2XZrgGcoU+4xOc9aLJXt6sUb q8u69JlEunDpLWNdyBz3gjCtyH/fasGiA5eG3mYBDK30NLPLA0dEyQdJq4yaqQHHdUJy Nhrk1T9K0OueNwa4jI0i7kdyr94mdVMpWPwk7Hga/pVC70OcUbUQBHo7yIBhEvRL/2uo DUOL6NXtXyd8GYHB7eDN+pDiNfpnmwK/owFLqNG2Fs2bD2Sl6ZS4eXQTvxWMjUVIS93N kipw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogYKvYCg/7t2Wa8mMSMWadBJ6qnENxRw+4HgcoTb7DitjcCrqgE V0Q4MtlHz+cqjdoUCDz6cj1/NWnopfJ1JumMxmevUw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62+B484Ng4N6YNdXgJu18kUTgBFMNyTgkGk7oiB/avvSIGF8xzRPKhtyO/eK7Ec2rLNL1dPJLLsc20ihrx9of8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5b96:: with SMTP id m22-v6mr24056378lje.115.1540155609238; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 14:00:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9d7207cbd2d84aa784689fbf4d747833@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Nikos Triantafillis Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:59:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Susan Hares , acee@cisco.com, idr wg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fcd1a00578c36b7a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] BGP session isolation for BGP-LS (and others in general) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 21:00:16 -0000 --000000000000fcd1a00578c36b7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Responses inline. Best Regards, Nikos.- On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 4:15 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Multisessions has been proposed long time back and since then there is > hardly any significant support of it in the shipping bgp code. I recall > there was a wave of it during times of MTR excitements, but then it > apparently faded away. From some of the popular code basis last time I > heard that it was even removed as too complex and too buggy. > NT: At the time, there was no significant need for it. That was 10+ yrs ago. Things change. The draft is quite simple and the argument against it based on whether some code bases had buggy or complex implementations, lacks merit. > Is there anywhere a valid IETF implementation report of it ? > > Besides multisessions may if available address only a fraction of the > problem - being session isolation from error handling point of view. It > gives zero control on the actual process isolation which I am mainly afte= r. > NT: That's just different optics. You clearly believe process isolation is the protocol's specification job. Others, don't. I am deploying route reflection on x86 servers and I would like to run on > the same hardware and same linux OS two BGP processes IOS for routing and > Junos for BGP-LS. How can I do that today without going to VMs, LXCs or > injecting additional routes (last assuming that BGP code goes deep to > kernel and can lock itself to single IP address on the box) ? How using > multisessions can I allocate 4 core to one bgp process and 2 to the other > one - cli examples ? > NT: For such process resource allocation you will need to talk to your favorite protocol implementor. > Multisessions has been written with one BGP code base in mind - even if > multi threaded. That is not a sufficient control of the execution. > > Yes soon after I wrote TI proposal John updated the multisessions draft t= o > cover part of the use case then declared at IETF in Stockholm "Robert - w= e > got it covered". > NT: If it was indeed covered, what's the issue? If you think it wasn't, why not make suggestions for changes? If there is no interest then it is perfectly fine ... you all can still > wait for the day multisessions ships and actually works yet I can refocus > on how to run various BGP code code basis with platform virtualization. > Well as a matter of fact some newest BGP implementations already support = a > lot of resource control so defining a new TCP port is really not needed > there.It is just a low hanging fruit for the legacy BGP world. > > Kindest regards, > RR. > > > On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:31 AM Nikos Triantafillis < > ntriantafillis@gmail.com> wrote: > >> +1 on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 for >> session isolation. >> >> Nikos.- >> >> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < >> ketant@cisco.com> wrote: >> >>> < updating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under >>> review J > >>> >>> >>> >>> While we are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session >>> isolation, how about >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07 ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Any feedback/inputs on this mechanism? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Ketan >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Idr *On Behalf Of * Susan Hares >>> *Sent:* 19 October 2018 20:06 >>> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) ; 'Robert Raszuk' < >>> robert@raszuk.net> >>> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of >>> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >>> >>> >>> >>> Robert: >>> >>> >>> >>> My understanding is that you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the >>> following draft: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I will review the draft for an adoption call later today. You will nee= d >>> to present at the IDR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sue >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org ] *On >>> Behalf Of *Susan Hares >>> *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM >>> *To:* 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk' >>> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of >>> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >>> >>> >>> >>> Acee: >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you for your feedback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sue >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com ] >>> *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:05 AM >>> *To:* Robert Raszuk; shares@ndzh.com >>> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Review of >>> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Sue, Robert, >>> >>> I don=E2=80=99t think we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on t= he >>> completion of this new work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I ag= ree >>> that it would be useful. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Acee >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *Idr on behalf of Robert Raszuk < >>> robert@raszuk.net> >>> *Date: *Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM >>> *To: *Susan Hares >>> *Cc: *IDR List >>> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Review of >>> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe-16.txt >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Sue, >>> >>> >>> >>> *[KT] When isolation is not followed then the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fat= e >>> with the other MP BGP signaling. This can result in update churn or err= ors >>> hit on one would affect the other. The concern would be that BGP-LS >>> topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updat= es >>> and slow down convergence. The session bring down due to an error >>> notification due to some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. >>> However, all of these are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension = and >>> should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunteer to help with th= at >>> as a separate draft and putting some text like this hear does not seem = like >>> a good idea.* >>> >>> >>> >>> [Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to handle this point as >>> >>> this problem does impact all BGP-LS. I like this approach. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, if you take this approach we will need to have this draft >>> >>> at a WG draft status before we can forward the other drafts to the >>> >>> IESG. Can you spin this draft quickly? I will be glad to review it >>> >>> and do a WG adoption call. Can you get it done over the weekend? >>> >>> We can talk about it on the 26th. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is your intention to "document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ? >>> >>> >>> >>> If this is about documenting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned >>> over weekend. >>> >>> >>> >>> If this is however about solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP >>> Transport Instance draft to WG status and move BGP-LS to simply use new= TCP >>> port making it at least at the TCP session level fully independent from >>> other SAFIs. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ref: https://tools...ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thx, >>> >>> R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Idr mailing list >>> Idr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >>> >> --000000000000fcd1a00578c36b7a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Responses inline.

Best Regards,

Nikos.-

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 4:15 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Multisessions= has been proposed long time back and since then there is hardly any signif= icant support of it in the shipping bgp code. I recall there was a wave of = it during times of MTR excitements, but then it apparently faded away. From= some of the popular code basis last time I heard that it was even removed = as too complex and too buggy.

NT: At = the time, there was no significant need for it. That was 10+ yrs ago. Thing= s change. The draft is quite simple and the argument against it based on wh= ether some code bases had buggy or complex implementations, lacks merit.
=C2=A0
Is= there anywhere a valid IETF implementation report of it ?=C2=A0
<= div>

Besides multisessions may if available address only= a fraction of the problem - being session isolation from error handling po= int of view. It gives zero control on the actual process isolation which I = am mainly after.=C2=A0

NT= : That's just different optics. You clearly believe process isolation i= s the protocol's specification job. Others, don't.

I am deployin= g route reflection on x86 servers and I would like to run on the same hardw= are and same linux OS two BGP processes IOS for routing and Junos for BGP-L= S. How can I do that today without going to VMs, LXCs or injecting addition= al routes (last assuming that BGP code goes deep to kernel and can lock its= elf to single IP address on the box) ? How using multisessions can I alloca= te 4 core to one bgp process and 2 to the other one - cli examples ?

NT: For such process resour= ce allocation you will need to talk to your favorite protocol implementor.<= /div>
=C2=A0
=
Multisessions has been written with one BGP code base in mi= nd - even if multi threaded. That is not a sufficient control of the execut= ion.

Yes soon after I wrote TI proposal John u= pdated the multisessions draft to cover part of the use case then declared = at IETF in Stockholm "Robert - we got it covered".=C2=A0

NT: If it was indeed covered, wha= t's the issue? If you think it wasn't, why not make suggestions for= changes?

If there is no interest then it is perfectly fine ... you all = can still wait for the day multisessions ships and actually works yet I can= refocus on how to run various BGP code code basis with platform virtualiza= tion. Well as a matter of fact some newest BGP implementations already supp= ort a lot of resource control so defining a new TCP port is really not need= ed there.It is just a low hanging fruit for the legacy BGP world.=C2=A0
=

Kindest regards,
RR.

On Sat, Oct 2= 0, 2018 at 7:31 AM Nikos Triantafillis <ntriantafillis@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 on=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-07=C2= =A0for session isolation.

Nikos.-

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ke= tan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

< up= dating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under review J= >

= =C2=A0

While w= e are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session isolation, how ab= out https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisessi= on-07 ?

= =C2=A0

Any fee= dback/inputs on this mechanism?

= =C2=A0

Thanks,=

Ketan

= =C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 19 October 2018 20:06
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

Robert: =

=C2=A0

My understanding is th= at you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the following draft:

=C2=A0

https://tools...i= etf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01

=C2=A0

I will review the draf= t for an adoption call later today.=C2=A0 You will need to present at the I= DR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions.

=C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

Acee:

=C2=A0

Thank you for your fee= dback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts.

=C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Hi Sue, Robert,<= /u>

I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on the completion of this n= ew work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I agree that it would be use= ful.

Thanks,

Acee<= /span>

=C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>= on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: IDR List <i= dr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[KT] When isolation is not followed the= n the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can = result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The con= cern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow = down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due t= o some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these= are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunte= er to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this he= ar does not seem like a good idea.

=C2=A0

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to ha= ndle this point as

this problem does impact =C2=A0all BGP-LS.=C2= =A0 I like this approach.

=C2=A0

However, if you take this approach we will ne= ed to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can forward th= e other drafts to the

IESG.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can you spin this draft qui= ckly?=C2=A0 I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption call.=C2=A0 Can you get = it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th.<= /span>

=C2=A0

Is your intention to &q= uot;document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ?=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

If this is about docume= nting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over weekend.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

If this is however abou= t solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP Transport Instance draft to WG= status and move BGP-LS to simply use new TCP port making it at least at th= e TCP session level fully independent from other SAFIs.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
--000000000000fcd1a00578c36b7a-- From nobody Sun Oct 21 15:41:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005D6130DE4; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sOR__mJ-aOqF; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16BBF130DCD; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id 30-v6so18144650plb.10; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/U5+yMzo0MaFl+/t4rkxgy/ce+4LDYkhwUq1HD29rkU=; b=K/I3uPJG9++DwvR+FVR0MYX4/CZWi9H0mcX0ibtWtTCSjumuwQmNlApeOBnyyeDvJe mKIGGx73dOGbif7e6xljCgenFW/jZvjMHXxD8xP+FSQ02rl2TFPl0/7JTYUMuysttqDf cxGBrnv+FmQ7VvTdXWYEVVIOXGjx5YRF5luyi88Mwbe1EwR9VVnL2nC0dCr4Ey1FnmU1 GoqoyE2Le2d2W/wbUaUy0QrQjP4bvWNLefYeRjWbwbMM337K2S228W52fB+/a6GKehNe oZtNKPzo0qDLZaQW+tsux99kMaIJwEks219gF2YmNCzCoOEAz03Bhd292/sw72cRFSvb OiZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/U5+yMzo0MaFl+/t4rkxgy/ce+4LDYkhwUq1HD29rkU=; b=BX5kuiz/p7w/xmD7PMohX+pJr4mQ4qZ57eiMdiBhZ8+TmQgpNOLfgk2ddCYfhn6XKt P9eSs/L4LXIXkrKAATyK3ZMFC+x7xzt6wVBf3rI1duHPNWb8qjaHip75qP2kXmJH9B50 8Ho/Dzy8TfMFfkyKLjBbhpmMS122qRRDUPocFyTXZyV4pJG+ACmtBdI0VwSDdICzt+wL fOhRINlYYUUXQqDp38k+SycJZl1s94s0GXPsnQgH0OC2+xIXCzxBYIPy7x51Xd0+IOFW xKVOb0pM+BTicPAnrWxoPAt35sWY7MXbBpcx89mLVh7uNOJxQKm8owRQmVevZ6kYjAOt vLAg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoierlS3N83ztimxRL4xLv68jARJ1OhvaQ8Wm/XMRl6GND5WLV/s WF8M6pqUaWQh9MXVu98LBHeyGH8FYPA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61dCvEBQ/p4MioLfd83Rk76uXgm53TZKgE/NI6AqQ+9lyfeo7mXjOdIoq+fK6OHyL7S8QTzsw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:5a43:: with SMTP id f3-v6mr10669889plm.114.1540161689546; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5801:7388:97e:c626:1bef:6e14? ([2601:647:5801:7388:97e:c626:1bef:6e14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k70-v6sm36764275pfc.76.2018.10.21.15.41.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16A404) In-Reply-To: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 15:41:27 -0700 Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8D086E7C-BB06-4D4F-9C08-6B8ED6B8BE2E@gmail.com> References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> To: Susan Hares Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:41:32 -0000 Sue, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. Regards, Jeff > On Oct 20, 2018, at 08:57, Susan Hares wrote: >=20 > The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG > adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements fr= om > the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. =20 >=20 > WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of t= he > working group, the draft is at: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ >=20 > Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Sun Oct 21 16:27:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274E4130DDB; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:26:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wBFe-bBw6IyW; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED6ED12F1A6; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:26:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Yoav Nir'" , "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" Cc: , , "'Robert Raszuk'" , , , References: <153972468642.9298.14442375581871750001@ietfa.amsl.com> <7655493D-9EF0-42FF-B2D3-B9CE4E78178D@gmail.com> <1FFA9449-D03C-4EB6-9D08-BA4A1AA93FE3@gmail.com> <92af26fef2da470d853f292c84f026a0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181019002642.GX19309@kduck.kaduk.org> <14949BEE-1EC4-46A0-A1FD-8FE4BCD5D417@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <14949BEE-1EC4-46A0-A1FD-8FE4BCD5D417@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:26:40 -0400 Message-ID: <077e01d46995$85c7bb90$915732b0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_077F_01D46973.FEB88C90" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKgXenR4TO/OdN54mRvtkcFsKB91wGNvGOlAbtG730CGuBt5QG8teXZAq/npckCVX567AF47qlpAUeOFiECkA51CqMGun6Q Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181021-4, 10/21/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:26:48 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_077F_01D46973.FEB88C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yoav: =20 Thank you providing suggested text to resolve your concerns and coming = to a resolution with the security issues with Les.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yoav Nir Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 1:45 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Cc: idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk; secdir@ietf.org; = kaduk@mit.edu; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 =20 See inline. On 19 Oct 2018, at 17:51, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: =20 Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to make. =20 What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see = = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2 ). If this information = had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 was written it = would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 and no = additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been required. =20 In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752. =20 I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not as = intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship between = them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at the new = draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context your = comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing is = most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752.=20 =20 [YN] Right, and as such, I believe that this document should address the = part that it adds to RFC 7752. IOW it should state that the new IGP = information that will now be sent through BGP does not present = new/different risk to the information already defined in 7752. This is = information that has up until now only been sent in IS-IS and OSPF and = will not be sent in BGP, so we need a statement that it=E2=80=99s OK to = send these attributes in BGP as well. Of course, such a statement could = be challenged in WGLC or IETF LC, but it should be made. The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it is = therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including a = reference to the RFC 7752 security discussion. =20 I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time needlessly. =20 Les =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_077F_01D46973.FEB88C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yoav:

 

Thank you providing suggested text to resolve your concerns and = coming to a resolution with the security issues with Les. =

 

Sue

 

From:= = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yoav = Nir
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 1:45 PM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Cc: idr@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; Robert = Raszuk; secdir@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu; = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] = [secdir] Secdir early review of = draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13

 

See = inline.



On 19 = Oct 2018, at 17:51, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> = wrote:

 

Robert=E2=80=99s post addresses points I also want to = make.

 

What is being done here is to add additional BGP-LS codepoints to = advertise IGP information that was not defined at the time RFC 7752 was = written. We haven=E2=80=99t changed the  BGP-LS transport mechanism = =E2=80=93 nor is the information being advertised here (some additional = TE related link attribute information) qualitatively different than a = number of existing TLVs defined in RFC 7752 (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7752#section-3.3.2<= /span> ). If this = information had already been defined in the IGPs at the time RFC 7752 = was written it would simply have been included as a section of RFC 7752 = and no additional changes to RFC 7752 would have been = required.

 

In theory, we could have simply updated RFC 7752 rather writing a = separate draft, but practically this would be a poor strategy as it = would incorrectly suggest that some change was being made to the = existing text in RFC 7752.

 

I appreciate that from the POV of the Security Area you folks are not = as intimately familiar with the routing drafts and the relationship = between them. It is therefore understandable that you start looking at = the new draft as a standalone document =E2=80=93 and in that context = your comments are absolutely correct. But the document you are reviewing = is most accurately seen as an =E2=80=9Caddendum=E2=80=9D to RFC 7752. =

 

[YN] Right, and as such, I believe that this document = should address the part that it adds to RFC 7752. IOW it should state = that the new IGP information that will now be sent through BGP does not = present new/different risk to the information already defined in 7752. = This is information that has up until now only been sent in IS-IS and = OSPF and will not be sent in BGP, so we need a statement that = it=E2=80=99s OK to send these attributes in BGP as well. Of course, such = a statement could be challenged in WGLC or IETF LC, but it should be = made.



The issues you raise have already been addressed in RFC 7752 and it = is therefore very appropriate that we address your concerns by including = a reference to the RFC 7752 security = discussion.

 

I think it is important that you note this relationship, because the = nature of BGP-LS is that whenever IGP extensions are defined to = advertise new information it is necessary to define corresponding BGP-LS = codepoints. This is not the first such BGP-LS extension document = =E2=80=93 and it is safe to say it won=E2=80=99t be the last. It would = be helpful to all if we reached a common understanding or this = discussion will take place every time a BGP-LS extension document is = being reviewed =E2=80=93 which will cost us all time = needlessly.

 

   Les

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_077F_01D46973.FEB88C90-- From nobody Sun Oct 21 16:38:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A8E130DF2; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:38:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154016511066.10784.3948964230005007668.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:38:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] The IDR WG has placed draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:38:31 -0000 The IDR WG has placed draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo in state Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Susan Hares) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo/ From nobody Sun Oct 21 16:41:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FBC130DF1; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:41:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7U9-pnmaOjC7; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB6C4130DE4; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:40:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: "'John Scudder'" , "'Alvaro Retana'" , Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:40:49 -0400 Message-ID: <07ba01d46997$801cb450$80561cf0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07BB_01D46975.F90B1450" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRplwL+BQ0CWbGPT5CtjYZX1RI3Ug== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181021-4, 10/21/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:41:00 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07BB_01D46975.F90B1450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-00.txt. The authors have requested an adoption call be made for the WG. The authors MUST respond indicating if they know of any IPR regarding this draft. Other IDR WG members may respond to this call with a 3rd party IPR notification. Cheerily, Susan Hares ------=_NextPart_000_07BB_01D46975.F90B1450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is an = IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-00.txt.   The = authors have requested an adoption call be made for the WG.  The = authors MUST respond indicating if they know of any IPR regarding this = draft.

 

Other IDR WG members may respond to this call with a = 3rd party IPR notification.  

 

Cheerily, = Susan Hares

------=_NextPart_000_07BB_01D46975.F90B1450-- From nobody Sun Oct 21 16:55:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B6E130EB5; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:55:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154016611546.10813.9739169442226080546.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:55:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] The IDR WG has placed draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr in state "Candidate for WG Adoption" X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:55:16 -0000 The IDR WG has placed draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr in state Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Susan Hares) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr/ From nobody Sun Oct 21 17:13:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73CC120072; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 17:13:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZCVgJ4HpPgpy; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 17:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC587130DED; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 17:13:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.170.26.143; From: "Susan Hares" To: Cc: "'John Scudder'" , "'Alvaro Retana'" , Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:12:56 -0400 Message-ID: <07d601d4699b$fc9a8760$f5cf9620$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdRpma/HHr00zroBTeeM7zTC/IW0gw== Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 181021-4, 10/21/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:13:07 -0000 This is an IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr. The authors MUST indicate if they know of any IPR related to this document. Other WG members are welcome to provide a 3rd party IPR disclosure. Cheerily, Sue From nobody Sun Oct 21 18:27:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EFA7120072; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:26:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5gVesqZL3727; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1019D12D4EE; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1D94EDB51A578; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 02:26:49 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 02:26:49 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.10]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:26:42 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Yoav Nir , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" CC: Robert Raszuk , "kaduk@mit.edu" , "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "secdir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] [secdir] Secdir early review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-13 Thread-Index: AQHUZZW/0K5XHEpKKkC6B03Mj9xH46UiBTIAgAEz0YCAABglAIABX4aAgAAW34CAAGv8AIAAa5YAgACGD4CAA1UEgIABBu3Q Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 01:26:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: 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draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-00.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 01:27:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP-LS Extension for Inter-AS Topology Retrieval Authors : Aijun Wang Huaimo Chen Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2018-10-21 Abstract: This document describes the process to build BGP-LS key parameters in Native IP multi-domain scenario and defines some new inter-AS TE related TLVs for BGP-LS to let SDN controller retrieve the network topology automatically under various environments. Such process and extension can expand the usage of BGP-LS protocol to multi- domain, enable the network operator to collect the connection relationship between different AS domains and then calculate the overall network topology automatically based on the information provided by BGP-LS protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Oct 21 22:51:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135B9130DFA; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WP23nw_g09f4; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 385FA1274D0; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:51:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=649; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540187468; x=1541397068; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=9YIm1XupqaUMPoUf2uW5PVBEyqsJnNP9jLN5gKawjWM=; b=b4fasv4RsFYrBCr+AHyjgZpyKLE4/VDhEMX20twbJhxentYBHdLku/GX bHOc7uS/YGGdkRXuOMUdKj8e/913JuOwtIkDczgbgt5XiYznIebQh+zGi Dw3olIXjb1zN4KlRhuIyG3/zQ7HxrAFVWBYK/ByibFGryVQ2VkHebCHNQ A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AQAADXZM1b/49dJa1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBVAEBAQEBAQsBggSBZSgKmBuCDXqIAJAVCwEBhGwChQ4?= =?us-ascii?q?hNwoNAQMBAQIBAQJtKIU6AQEBBB0dPwwEAgEIDgMEAQEfECERHQgBAQQBDQU?= =?us-ascii?q?IhQMDFaUwh20NghiLUheBQT+BEYJdNYJWiAICnhouCQKNTIMcH4FDjmuNUIh?= =?us-ascii?q?mAhEUgSYzIoFVcBWDJ5BXb4pagR8BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,410,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="189473164" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Oct 2018 05:51:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com (xch-rcd-006.cisco.com [173.37.102.16]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9M5p7VK020835 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:51:07 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com (173.37.102.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:51:06 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:51:06 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "'John Scudder'" , "'Alvaro Retana'" , "draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr Thread-Index: AdRpma/HHr00zroBTeeM7zTC/IW0gwAMXITg Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:51:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <07d601d4699b$fc9a8760$f5cf9620$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <07d601d4699b$fc9a8760$f5cf9620$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xch-rcd-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:51:10 -0000 Hello All, I am not aware of any IPR related to this document. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: 22 October 2018 05:43 To: idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' ; 'Alvaro Retana' ; draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr@ietf.org Subject: IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr This is an IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr. The aut= hors MUST indicate if they know of any IPR related to this document.=20 Other WG members are welcome to provide a 3rd party IPR disclosure.=20 Cheerily, Sue=20 From nobody Sun Oct 21 22:51:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98D2130EDC; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:51:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0HJnQ2DW0FGD; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96022130EB5; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 22:51:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5147; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540187480; x=1541397080; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=Lxpon9Ekf0kIT0zhCnKaRDDoOThWeEVxGacmbERkSFc=; b=Ub8licksS4j0WSf1XfBxR2y1PER7FSr8TXJzOtL9MyOH1S12YloQMWMv +n/zz6Z8aNmwkp0zAscGUY/+QwU3eRqfU7hezaC1jy8OKp4slS1L3Fqid tzoSCwQG7vL/vYU7aKjOv4LZ0VN3TXkZBiEpynbAbAgkIqWUDyGYYwfka w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BEAADXZM1b/49dJa1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBZYEOd2Z/KAqYG4INeogAiFOHQgsBAYRsAoUOITgWAQM?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBAQJtKIU6AQEBBB0QTBACAQgOAwQBAS8hER0IAQEEAQ0FCIMagR1MAxW?= =?us-ascii?q?lMIdtDYIYi1IXgUE/gRGCXTWCVogCAo41j2UuCQKNTIMcH5AujVCIZgIRFIE?= =?us-ascii?q?mNCGBVXAVgyeQV2+KWoEfAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,410,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="188906237" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Oct 2018 05:51:19 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9M5pJ0u021048 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:51:19 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:51:18 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:51:18 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "'John Scudder'" , "'Alvaro Retana'" , "draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo Thread-Index: AdRplwL+BQ0CWbGPT5CtjYZX1RI3UgANDiEQ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:51:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <07ba01d46997$801cb450$80561cf0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <07ba01d46997$801cb450$80561cf0$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a915aed518de43c8a82e3a098b7bf981XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xch-rcd-008.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:51:30 -0000 --_000_a915aed518de43c8a82e3a098b7bf981XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I am not aware of any IPR related to this document. Thanks, Ketan From: Susan Hares Sent: 22 October 2018 05:11 To: idr@ietf.org Cc: 'John Scudder' ; 'Alvaro Retana' ; draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo@ietf.org Subject: IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo This is an IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-00.txt. The aut= hors have requested an adoption call be made for the WG. The authors MUST = respond indicating if they know of any IPR regarding this draft. Other IDR WG members may respond to this call with a 3rd party IPR notifica= tion. Cheerily, Susan Hares --_000_a915aed518de43c8a82e3a098b7bf981XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello All,=

 

I am not aware of any IPR re= lated to this document.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Sent: 22 October 2018 05:11
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'John Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>; 'Alvaro Retana' <aret= ana.ietf@gmail.com>; draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo@ietf.org
Subject: IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo

 

This is an IPR call for draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex= -algo-00.txt.   The authors have requested an adoption call be ma= de for the WG.  The authors MUST respond indicating if they know of an= y IPR regarding this draft.

 

Other IDR WG members may respond to this call with a= 3rd party IPR notification.  

 

Cheerily, Susan Hares

--_000_a915aed518de43c8a82e3a098b7bf981XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Sun Oct 21 23:02:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09954130DC0; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:02:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.064, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WZdTzLrlccRZ; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B3D21274D0; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:02:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=831; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540188146; x=1541397746; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=iYfNtDjBdNikQ4FuwUQhUaCfkOKfD/YTI71U0Jyza2s=; b=ElN9QkKbhI5KC0CV0GIMUUWj/VEBaXmvCdxv4TOci7ppdcanuZvoDHJv 6IvLQy7PuCMpqB+L8LLUBhRvjGNYmEkaiQS52sLxln717DLmmp1HV11Rb 4oNzEYJ88qEfKxZPnD0eSg6J+cPFa1zIof8QEWtp2A1SAWtfJuqUwFyWm 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BEAAC6Zs1b/5RdJa1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBZYIFZn8oCpgbgg2ZDwsBASOESQKFDiE4FgEDAQECAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?CbRwMhToBAQEEHR0/DAQCAQgOAwQBAR8QMh0IAQEEAQ0FCIMaggEPpR2EPkC?= =?us-ascii?q?FDwWLUheBQT+DbjWDGwIDAYc3Ap5ICQKGYIoIH5AujFiJXgIRFIEmNCGBVXA?= =?us-ascii?q?VgyeCT4hKhT5vilqBHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,410,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="251657478" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Oct 2018 06:02:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9M62OT8006055 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 06:02:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 01:02:24 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 01:02:24 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). Thread-Index: AdRoiWXWLIiqumwXT5ms4q0k2sf7MwBQ2CEQ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 06:02:24 +0000 Message-ID: <98f3e964840440c294a3bf5684ba65b6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.17, xch-rcd-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 06:02:28 -0000 Hello All, I am not aware of any IPR related to this document. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares =20 Sent: 20 October 2018 21:27 To: idr@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org; Ketan Talau= likar (ketant) Subject: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoptio= n call).=20 The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements fro= m the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. =20 WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of th= e working group, the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 From nobody Mon Oct 22 00:03:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFA9130EEC; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oDR0I72GYZYQ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x235.google.com (mail-lj1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BAB8130F1A; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x235.google.com with SMTP id j4-v6so35901680ljc.12; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:03:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNzUPT0Gk4B3AOuRBxLZOMusoyu+UDpPWJi1QLhfbUg=; b=bng3kEJfzdfgWxtVaKxe0wRpTBhXIIzvC+Pu1RqGkF1XsuZvFCjmSWtKxzlr7RtYUK xxuhefJuhXUqU1+i8d8cG/AoB9sFlaTJk9DA0Hos4MbN3j/3WXA5PkaFXRt+oPAUv0rv fWQ/VRDex77Mfx1B1w9bkpw/CIDT0yBjBuSrIh0l0rvl2BhRbsJrsHZHffY4vL1JCwNt bd8HdaI5Kl0E6V7u6pjgI8ls4HvJX3mr/HdsSMAxWJxAK+Y6scJ0B0h5jgW5o4uDPIRL xHANahaVSOaGe8yNIuqWCmN66ynqGDQoG8Ax5q8Gj0oMkgXQgXG4cuKxgpC8x1YX1Ofn fQng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNzUPT0Gk4B3AOuRBxLZOMusoyu+UDpPWJi1QLhfbUg=; b=nUFtgrYP/CpLf24keO10LzieYv7Im2HHzP+fbnytuPVVCIm0eGsQdDuy5ppv23yTm+ /mibn1soajnT0fowswX3BHGqVlUBGwOvhh6pSYyNpoXObseKfawImPkvXe4c8foX6XQb YeoaIQqcAZzzfmKLYFbz0cb1xQKHee4G0zqRQGKZ3kmlLEY0vEHWPm69Fu1xM7/x40uc ZZshgbrS6UXilgiOeG7UUEsoskNGg8a1pFYyshToPBaTf1V52kqgDRXU0ws4X0yf1M4f CF3ji5Xr1euwYtmykNa44O55qIsWInHAkbkKY0gEsxQkdV9vnGacZ23P1xuUpjikjzu0 W8/w== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoi18yiPQo6nI8bKIEH+6GpcmbcITz9oQN5nu+NdRN7KnuFDKFxE 3woesvFwixrnBn0LcbBicf/iD/G/Gba7Mga5nyrMEw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62QImbDfP1Koc7Yge2dNT+3mXiEXHryA2iimT89SDK+HxsGRfH+mrCCz6rwHsMPkilBzYgftFxh6CRO8DKv3Uo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:800e:: with SMTP id j14-v6mr27706805ljg.114.1540191789421; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:03:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> <98f3e964840440c294a3bf5684ba65b6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <98f3e964840440c294a3bf5684ba65b6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:02:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: Susan Hares , idr wg , draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007e97550578cbd877" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:03:22 -0000 --0000000000007e97550578cbd877 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, I'm not aware of any IPR related to this document. Regards, Greg On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:02 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hello All, > > I am not aware of any IPR related to this document. > > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Hares > Sent: 20 October 2018 21:27 > To: idr@ietf.org > Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org; Ketan > Talaulikar (ketant) > Subject: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to > adoption call). > > The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG > adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements > from > the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. > > WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of > the working group, the draft is at: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ > > Cheerily, Susan Hares > > > --0000000000007e97550578cbd877 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
I'm not aware of any IPR related to this= document.

Regards,
Greg

=
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:02 P= M Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@= cisco.com> wrote:
Hello Al= l,

I am not aware of any IPR related to this document.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Hares <= shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: 20 October 2018 21:27
To: idr@ietf.org
Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ket= ant) <ketant@cisco= .com>
Subject: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoptio= n call).

The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG
adoption call starting.=C2=A0 =C2=A0After we have received all the IPR stat= ements from
the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call.=C2=A0

WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement.=C2=A0 For ease = of the working group, the draft is at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/

Cheerily, Susan Hares


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02:32:13 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Growing BGP-LS Attribute Thread-Index: AQHUaG3oQJn1YbjS8EOwigjJXoXthaUq2uQQ Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:32:13 +0000 Message-ID: <91762d710b50491f96719654d7b02718@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_91762d710b50491f96719654d7b02718XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.16, xch-aln-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:32:21 -0000 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OnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvdGQ+DQo8dGQgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiIHN0eWxlPSJwYWRk aW5nOi43NXB0IDYuMHB0IC43NXB0IDYuMHB0Ij48L3RkPg0KPHRkIHZhbGlnbj0idG9wIiBzdHls ZT0icGFkZGluZzouNzVwdCA2LjBwdCAuNzVwdCA2LjBwdCI+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFs IiBzdHlsZT0ibXNvLW1hcmdpbi10b3AtYWx0OjEyLjBwdDttYXJnaW4tcmlnaHQ6MGNtO21hcmdp bi1ib3R0b206MTIuMHB0O21hcmdpbi1sZWZ0OjBjbSI+DQo8c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXpl OjEwLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtIZWx2ZXRpY2EgTmV1ZSZxdW90Oztjb2xvcjpibGFj ayI+PGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPGJyPg0KPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC90ZD4NCjwvdHI+ DQo8L3Rib2R5Pg0KPC90YWJsZT4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9v OnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_91762d710b50491f96719654d7b02718XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 05:43:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B481C130E1A; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:43:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jgCSTOEglahb; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5462130E18; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2A5B77B3951BF; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:43:20 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM421-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.38) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:43:21 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.205]) by dggemm421-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:43:18 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org" , "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" Thread-Topic: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). Thread-Index: AdRoiWXWLIiqumwXT5ms4q0k2sf7MwBe1BxA Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:43:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4B6CF2@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:43:26 -0000 Hi Sue, I am not aware of any IPR. Best Regards, Zhenbin(Robin) -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 11:57 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org; 'Ketan Tala= ulikar (ketant)' Subject: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoptio= n call).=20 The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements fro= m the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. =20 WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of th= e working group, the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 From nobody Mon Oct 22 05:44:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9866130E1B; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:44:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hNoiZDnaLJqX; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DFE1130E18; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 05:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 843E2F5D2B6CC; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:44:20 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM421-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.38) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:43:21 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.205]) by dggemm421-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:43:18 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: "idr@ietf.org" , "draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org" , "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" Thread-Topic: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). Thread-Index: AdRoiWXWLIiqumwXT5ms4q0k2sf7MwBe1BxA Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:43:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4B6CF2@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:44:30 -0000 Hi Sue, I am not aware of any IPR. Best Regards, Zhenbin(Robin) -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 11:57 PM To: idr@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org; draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org; 'Ketan Tala= ulikar (ketant)' Subject: IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoptio= n call).=20 The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements fro= m the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. =20 WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of th= e working group, the draft is at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ Cheerily, Susan Hares=20 From nobody Mon Oct 22 06:33:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE96130EBD; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 06:32:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154021517827.15134.847891340111711096@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 06:32:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:33:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Neighbor Discovery Authors : Xiaohu Xu Ketan Talaulikar Kunyang Bi Jeff Tantsura Nikos Triantafillis Filename : draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: BGP is being used as the underlay routing protocol in some large- scaled data centers (DCs). Most popular design followed is to do hop-by-hop external BGP (EBGP) session configurations between neighboring routers on a per link basis. The provisioning of BGP neighbors in routers across such a DC brings its own operational complexity. This document introduces a BGP neighbor discovery mechanism that greatly simplifies BGP operations in such DC and other networks by automatic setup of BGP sessions between neighbor routers using this mechanism. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 07:03:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 192E41286E7; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:02:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154021697393.5440.14417865088339792440@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:02:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd-03.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:02:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP FlowSpec Extensions for Routing Policy Distribution (RPD) Authors : Zhenbin Li Liang Ou Yujia Luo Sujian Lu Huaimo Chen Shunwan Zhuang Nan Wu Filename : draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd-03.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This document describes a mechanism to use BGP Flowspec address family as routing-policy distribution protocol. This mechanism is called BGP FlowSpec Extensions for Routing Policy Distribution (BGP- FS RPD). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 08:07:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD03128CFD; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 08:06:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iMbO5nTjVdC3; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 08:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6369130DD9; 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boundary="_000_04810076B4334A529066C0B5A121F509ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Agenda for meeting in 4 days X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 15:07:00 -0000 --_000_04810076B4334A529066C0B5A121F509ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Q2hhaXJzLCBTZWNyZXRhcnksDQoNCkRvIHdlIGhhdmUgYW4gYWdlbmRhIGZvciB0aGUgaW1taW5l bnQgaW50ZXJpbT8NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KQWNlZQ0K --_000_04810076B4334A529066C0B5A121F509ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3C90A05190E49E4F937A962338F134A7@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQpAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiJUaW1lcyBO ZXcgUm9tYW4gXChCb2R5IENTXCkiOw0KCXBhbm9zZS0xOjIgMTEgNiA0IDIgMiAyIDIgMiA0O30N Ci8qIFN0eWxlIERlZmluaXRpb25zICovDQpwLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgbGkuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBkaXYu TXNvTm9ybWFsDQoJe21hcmdpbjowaW47DQoJbWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTouMDAwMXB0Ow0KCWZvbnQt c2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0KYTpsaW5r LCBzcGFuLk1zb0h5cGVybGluaw0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtcHJpb3JpdHk6OTk7DQoJY29sb3I6IzA1 NjNDMTsNCgl0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb246dW5kZXJsaW5lO30NCmE6dmlzaXRlZCwgc3Bhbi5Nc29I eXBlcmxpbmtGb2xsb3dlZA0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtcHJpb3JpdHk6OTk7DQoJY29sb3I6Izk1NEY3 MjsNCgl0ZXh0LWRlY29yYXRpb246dW5kZXJsaW5lO30NCnNwYW4uRW1haWxTdHlsZTE3DQoJe21z by1zdHlsZS10eXBlOnBlcnNvbmFsLWNvbXBvc2U7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNh bnMtc2VyaWY7DQoJY29sb3I6d2luZG93dGV4dDt9DQouTXNvQ2hwRGVmYXVsdA0KCXttc28tc3R5 bGUtdHlwZTpleHBvcnQtb25seTsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjt9 DQpAcGFnZSBXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjENCgl7c2l6ZTo4LjVpbiAxMS4waW47DQoJbWFyZ2luOjEuMGlu IDEuMGluIDEuMGluIDEuMGluO30NCmRpdi5Xb3JkU2VjdGlvbjENCgl7cGFnZTpXb3JkU2VjdGlv bjE7fQ0KLS0+PC9zdHlsZT4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IGxhbmc9IkVOLVVTIiBsaW5rPSIjMDU2 M0MxIiB2bGluaz0iIzk1NEY3MiI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xh c3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNi4wcHQiPkNoYWlycywgU2Vj cmV0YXJ5LCA8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3Bh biBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE2LjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxNi4wcHQiPkRvIHdl IGhhdmUgYW4gYWdlbmRhIGZvciB0aGUgaW1taW5lbnQgaW50ZXJpbT88YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8bzpw PjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9u dC1zaXplOjE2LjBwdCI+VGhhbmtzLDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJN c29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTYuMHB0Ij5BY2VlPG86cD48L286cD48 L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_04810076B4334A529066C0B5A121F509ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 09:02:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEFE130E61; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:02:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154022417540.5365.10821814822130323632@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:02:55 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc8203bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:02:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Extended BGP Administrative Shutdown Communication Authors : Job Snijders Jakob Heitz John Scudder Alexander Azimov Filename : draft-ietf-idr-rfc8203bis-01.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This document enhances the BGP Cease NOTIFICATION message "Administrative Shutdown" and "Administrative Reset" subcodes for operators to transmit a short freeform message to describe why a BGP session was shutdown or reset. This document updates RFC 4486 and obsoletes RFC 8203 by defining an Extended BGP Administrative Shutdown Communication to improve communication using multibyte character sets. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc8203bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc8203bis-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc8203bis-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rfc8203bis-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 09:37:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3955130EEF; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:37:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154022622664.6212.12946008217963471295@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:37:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:37:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Methods for Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route Leaks Authors : Kotikalapudi Sriram Alexander Azimov Filename : draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: Problem definition for route leaks and enumeration of types of route leaks are provided in RFC 7908. This document describes a solution for detection and mitigation route leaks which is based on conveying route-leak protection (RLP) information in a Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) community. The RLP information is carried in a new well-known transitive BGP community, called the RLP community. The RLP community helps with detection and mitigation of route leaks at ASes downstream from the leaking AS (in the path of the BGP update). This is an inter-AS (multi-hop) solution mechanism. This solution complements the intra-AS (local AS) route-leak avoidance solution that is described in ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy draft. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 10:43:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B051130EA8; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 10:43:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: idr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: idr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154023018557.7006.11266597996774728831@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 10:43:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 17:43:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Link-State extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Stefano Previdi Ketan Talaulikar Clarence Filsfils Hannes Gredler Mach(Guoyi) Chen Filename : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by routing protocols e.g. by the link state routing protocols (IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) within IGP topologies. This draft defines extensions to the BGP Link-state address-family in order to carry segment routing information via BGP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 10:45:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9BF130DC5 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 10:45:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GaUgvzAng3XT for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 10:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7F2A12D4EC for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 10:44:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6312; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540230298; x=1541439898; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=Vo+MTvtBvcm7hGIZvxGxQDIO4GeujFJIj9BQ3clNdvw=; b=I8TSTHL0X4tBnemfp67DFgE+oI7TQV7A6uA08kHGSHEzy6TD1yDg4nqJ lRmDR8uiJadyg0byqgTVUWyJo4IO+as1OLI2+ywT0kb5/w+7Jxmz7sU33 I7QAB9xe1saw2P1d7HesqI4BkU6y9mYzJb2PFcpUW4m/BfTXC/oqudtV7 c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AIAABQDM5b/4gNJK1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUwIBAQEBAQsBgQ13Zn8oCpgegg2ObIJhhUiBegsBASW?= =?us-ascii?q?ERwKFFSE2Cw0BAwEBAgEBAm0cDIU6AQEBBC1MEAIBCA4DBAEBJAsyHQgBAQQ?= =?us-ascii?q?BDQUIgxqBHWQPp0KEMAKFSR0Fi1IXgUE/gRGCZC6BQYFaAQEDhzgCjjWQEwk?= =?us-ascii?q?ChmCCYoJJhF0fkC6DKYkviV4CERSBJiQNJIFVcBWDJ4JPiEqFPm+LMoEfAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,413,1534809600"; d="scan'208,217";a="469952568" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Oct 2018 17:44:43 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9MHih4u003396 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Oct 2018 17:44:43 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:44:42 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 12:44:42 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Susan Hares , "idr@ietf.org" CC: Robert Raszuk Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG LC on changes for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 (10/20/2018 to 10/26/2018) Thread-Index: AdRodeLZjjWEFbtqS06VisslSTyGDQBYpQ9Q Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 17:44:42 +0000 Message-ID: <7336f12972f34f15834ab730e71c3804@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <058401d46876$01952c10$04bf8430$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <058401d46876$01952c10$04bf8430$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7336f12972f34f15834ab730e71c3804XCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.19, xch-rcd-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC on changes for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 (10/20/2018 to 10/26/2018) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 17:45:13 -0000 --_000_7336f12972f34f15834ab730e71c3804XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue/All, We've received some comments from Robert regarding some text that needs to = be corrected to clarify where the new TLVs are included in the BGP-LS Attri= bute. Also, on a few errors in code-point references for other drafts. Than= ks to Robert for catching these. An updated version 11 of the draft has just been posted to address these co= mments. Thanks, Ketan From: Idr On Behalf Of Susan Hares Sent: 20 October 2018 18:39 To: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] WG LC on changes for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-e= xt-10 (10/20/2018 to 10/26/2018) Greetings: During the review process of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext draf= t there have been a number of changes to the draft. Due to the number of = changes, it is important to do a working group last call on the changes. = This call will end on 10/26/2018. It is the intent of the WG chairs forw= ard this draft to the IESG for publication on 10/26/2018. For your ease, the latest version is at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10 Susan Hares IDR co-chair --_000_7336f12972f34f15834ab730e71c3804XCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue/= All,

&n= bsp;

We̵= 7;ve received some comments from Robert regarding some text that needs to b= e corrected to clarify where the new TLVs are included in the BGP-LS Attrib= ute. Also, on a few errors in code-point references for other drafts. Thanks to Robert for catching these.

&n= bsp;

An upda= ted version 11 of the draft has just been posted to address these comments.=

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=

Ketan

&n= bsp;

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 20 October 2018 18:39
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG LC on changes for draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-ro= uting-ext-10 (10/20/2018 to 10/26/2018)

 

Greetings:

 

During the review process of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-s= egment-routing-ext draft there have been a number of changes to the draft. =   Due to the number of changes, it is important to do a working g= roup last call on the changes.   This call will end on 10/26/2018.    It is the intent of the WG chairs for= ward this draft to the IESG for publication on 10/26/2018.

 

For your ease, the latest version is at:   = ;

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr= -bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-10

 

Susan Hares

IDR co-chair

 

--_000_7336f12972f34f15834ab730e71c3804XCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 14:11:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809C7130F18 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:11:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y4jBN9Alf-D9 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F71A130E99 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id d14-v6so48133588qto.4 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:11:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qha/6sCdaojLEvvGn/XTmfpYr7l9+Th0DG1N3h/Dhh8=; b=aVC3XwltDpCl/VDDOWtuwv+nD+7wzKWC65szcIm5I9991Ad/5eteBPBAaYcMMTkW+Z 0l012vibcbd4GTFHxVGoEdYsWBYCFxPBeUk5NoyO0efIpTMmCCWPl8o7/WJr7dOAIKpm tX6VBK3FiTOc9ZIDQ3C0iL56D+0Uvd0Ij1BQSGxwTaE/SRK4jUqUjGWetehzWnTk4zwx L8dZsBxrg3Fu8yQtXka0gn6oR7fivM/FP8bBUmCHDQCHU6ZMieLuxJrLJi8/UC30y2a7 cK4MY+9AI7iJTuq4ISI6PO2/e45P4vZw/B2yGPNafwqqCdj1+WEtIcGaPTj/YEsLHJu8 PPiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qha/6sCdaojLEvvGn/XTmfpYr7l9+Th0DG1N3h/Dhh8=; b=AM8V3raiHAm3XkZ9kaNTOf4fCoAoue8UH9gZhFdqKeDWGWEiUSaMvHw1QeSlrQdxs0 +BY6C6p+mm9bW+u5BwAD0HIBg0heVFR4yIFSOmlPbVJIytBXF2q2ADzPtIVNoNRE2Hdx E0BAoZCeqY9Zh5FT5c91KnJQ6mbvFyj7cq3MNfhNrbvhM7JfUUlULuQtsjmCNB+E9vKJ kPIyLKUmS04aH2ibdLNGMeJP7gmXPwH8IknH1x7s1vpgBnhvJEBujc9MI1TPPDnR7gpD EDTCXO/SFypFPcdyu9lGo+FMzs2vQgXbWMkm9o1WD4utW79OkDPkKD7eynhR+SS9yBSj kGMA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIttWi1Y9QJjsCDsa9SM+XijIHiKhRyVQpEp/wWA4txbV1FR84L QbbvCh34aLVZYnTOlUU/ZP+kG+d/H03+RBcGoKtc365o X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cxyq8vaFxB5UdIne3wdHKZ4feSGCcXQuWa4af4At5lIC9SPmLY0NhI/wos3HYCCr2jGhSHoEzxeHFaLFCvCL4= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:ea82:: with SMTP id d2mr5745298qvp.124.1540242697435; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:11:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:11:27 +0200 Message-ID: To: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d95df50578d7b2fa" Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Multi Instance BGP X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 21:11:53 -0000 --000000000000d95df50578d7b2fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, To meet the submission deadline I uploaded a below proposal for Multi Instance BGP. Please do not hesitate to provide any comments on or off the list. I consider it as first possible step to separate BGP-LS (or for that matter other non routing related data) into independent BGP process primarily targeting to run on the x86 general compute hardware without making any changes to BGP code therefor making it 100% backwards compatible. If there is need we could discuss it during the interim meeting, otherwise we could just keep it for the list based comments. Kind regards, Robert ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:00 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Robert Raszuk and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-raszuk-mi-bgp Revision: 00 Title: Multi Instance BGP Document date: 2018-10-22 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 9 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp Abstract: As the number of operational use cases of BGP grows there is demand to increase the level of separation and processing independence between various address families carried by BGP today. This document augments base BGP specification in allowing local configuration of BGP port number by the operator to run parallel fully disjoined BGP instances allowing full processing separation between them. While local BGP implementation may already assure BGP process or thread robustnes the general aim here is to allow similar level of groups of BGP address families independence when running BGP code on general purpose hardware as well as x86 based route reflectors. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --000000000000d95df50578d7b2fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

To meet the submission deadline = I uploaded a below proposal for Multi Instance BGP.=C2=A0

Please do not hesitate to provide any comments on or off the list.= =C2=A0

I consider it as first possible step to sep= arate BGP-LS (or for that matter other non=C2=A0
routing related = data) into independent BGP process primarily targeting to run=C2=A0
on the x86 general compute hardware without making any changes to BGP co= de=C2=A0
therefor making it 100% backwards compatible.=C2=A0

If there is need we could discuss it during the interi= m meeting, otherwise we could=C2=A0
just keep it for the list bas= ed comments.=C2=A0

Kind regards,
Robert<= /div>

------= ---- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org= >
Date: Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:00 PM
Subject: New Vers= ion Notification for draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Robert Raszuk and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-raszuk-mi-bgp
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multi Instance BGP
Document date:=C2=A0 2018-10-22
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https:= //datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.= ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As the number of operational use cases of BGP grows there is d= emand
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to increase the level of separation and processing independenc= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0between various address families carried by BGP today.=C2=A0 T= his document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0augments base BGP specification in allowing local configuratio= n of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP port number by the operator to run parallel fully disjoine= d BGP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0instances allowing full processing separation between them.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While local BGP implementation may already assure BGP process = or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0thread robustnes the general aim here is to allow similar leve= l of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0groups of BGP address families independence when running BGP c= ode on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0general purpose hardware as well as x86 based route reflectors= .

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--000000000000d95df50578d7b2fa-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 14:58:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8F1130DF6; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:58:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.47 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GNdkttGycFN; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cy1gcc01on0091.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.200.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1364130EB9; 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boundary="_000_SN6PR0901MB23669337FD49CBD274AA148F84F40SN6PR0901MB2366_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: eb3791a7-f862-47c0-2d98-08d638696bf2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Oct 2018 21:57:55.2018 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR0901MB2367 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 21:58:09 -0000 --_000_SN6PR0901MB23669337FD49CBD274AA148F84F40SN6PR0901MB2366_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very substantial changes made from -09 to -10 version: - Changes in the semantics of the RLP mechanism and the detection-mitigatio= n algorithms - In the draft, we're proposing to use BGP Large Community (transitive) to = carry info about RLP * However, we are looking for WG feedback about the options -- Regu= lar Community vs. Large vs. Extended? * See slides 19-24 for some details on these options (link to the s= lides below). Authors' Team Discussion Slides may be helpful to see helpful graphics, sce= nario analyses: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2018/10/22/rlp_using_bgp= _community-v4.pdf Looking forward to your comments. Thanks. Sriram -------------------------------------------------------------- A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Methods for Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route= Leaks Authors : Kotikalapudi Sriram Alexander Azimov Filename : draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10= .txt Pages : 11 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: Problem definition for route leaks and enumeration of types of route leaks are provided in RFC 7908. This document describes a solution for detection and mitigation route leaks which is based on conveying route-leak protection (RLP) information in a Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) community. The RLP information is carried in a new well-known transitive BGP community, called the RLP community. The RLP community helps with detection and mitigation of route leaks at ASes downstream from the leaking AS (in the path of the BGP update). This is an inter-AS (multi-hop) solution mechanism. This solution complements the intra-AS (local AS) route-leak avoidance solution that is described in ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy draft. URL: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitiga= tion-10 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detecti= on-mitigation-10 --_000_SN6PR0901MB23669337FD49CBD274AA148F84F40SN6PR0901MB2366_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Very substantial changes made from -09 to -10 versio= n:

- Changes in the semantics of the RLP mechanism and = the detection-mitigation algorithms

- In the draft, we’re proposing to use BGP Lar= ge Community (transitive) to carry info about RLP

        * Ho= wever, we are looking for WG feedback about the options -- Regular Communit= y vs. Large vs. Extended?

        * See sli= des 19-24 for some details on these options (link to the slides below).

 

Authors’ Team Discussion Slides may be helpful= to see helpful graphics, scenario analyses:

https://www.nist.gov/s= ites/default/files/documents/2018/10/22/rlp_using_bgp_community-v4.pdf  

 

Looking forward to your comments. Thanks.=

 

Sriram

 

----------------------------------------------------= ----------

A New Internet-Draft is available from the=
 on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Dom=
ain Routing WG of the IETF.
 
       =
 Title           : Method=
s for Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route Leaks
       =
 Authors         : Kotikalapudi Sri=
ram
       =
            &nb=
sp;      Alexander Azimov
       =
 Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-route-=
leak-detection-mitigation-10.txt
       =
 Pages           : 11
       =
 Date            : 2=
018-10-22
 
Abstract:
   Problem definition for route =
leaks and enumeration of types of route
   leaks are provided in RFC 790=
8.  This document describes a solution
   for detection and mitigation =
route leaks which is based on conveying
   route-leak protection (RLP) i=
nformation in a Border Gateway Protocol
   (BGP) community.  The RL=
P information is carried in a new well-known
   transitive BGP community, cal=
led the RLP community.  The RLP
   community helps with detectio=
n and mitigation of route leaks at ASes
   downstream from the leaking A=
S (in the path of the BGP update).  This
   is an inter-AS (multi-hop) so=
lution mechanism.  This solution
   complements the intra-AS (loc=
al AS) route-leak avoidance solution
   that is described in ietf-idr=
-bgp-open-policy draft.
 
URL: https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10 
Diff: https://www.i=
etf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10 
 
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(lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9004130E4B; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AD5D1E6B99EC3; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:28:35 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:28:36 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.120]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:28:26 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Christoph Loibl , idr wg CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis Thread-Index: AQHUW8vheWSmJxAfGUyel8svG2H5AqUOwJ6AgAEYiACAFGSDgIAH+ZpQ Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 02:28:27 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912BNKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 02:28:42 -0000 --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912BNKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christoph, We are building the agenda for the upcoming interim meeting. Could you let us know whether you need a time slot in the interim to presen= t the update on 5575-bis and discuss the remained issues? Best regards, Jie From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Loibl Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:37 PM To: idr wg Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis Hi, On 05.10.2018, at 11:11, Christoph Loibl > wrote: I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you pointed out (see= the previous Email in this thread - if I see no objections on the list). = At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects (discussed in t= his Email) until we have a rough idea where we are heading for. As promised, I uploaded a new version of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis (-09) th= at addresses most of the minor issues pointed out by Jeffery in a way poste= d on the list earlier. Issues that seem to need more discussions have not b= een addressed by this new version (I may make a short presentation on that = in the interim next week). Please look into the changes on datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ Cheers Christoph -- Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.= nextlayer.at --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912BNKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Christoph,

 

We are building the ag= enda for the upcoming interim meeting.

 

Could you let us know = whether you need a time slot in the interim to present the update on 5575-b= is and discuss the remained issues?

 

Best regards,

Jie<= /p>

 

From: = Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Loibl
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:37 PM
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis

 

Hi,

 

 

I will upload a new version repairi= ng the minor issues you pointed out (see the previous Email in this thread = -  if I see no objections on the list). At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects (discussed in this Email) = until we have a rough idea where we are heading for.

 

As promised, I uploaded a new v= ersion of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis (-09) that addresses most of the minor = issues pointed out by Jeffery in a way posted on the list earlier. Issues t= hat seem to need more discussions have not been addressed by this new version (I may make a short presentation on= that in the interim next week).

 

Please look into the changes on= datatracker:

 

 

Cheers Christoph

 

-- 
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: = ;0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer= .at

 

--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912BNKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Mon Oct 22 19:31:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 835CB130F0B; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0gA-pFVwf6PE; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDC2D130EF1; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3C26F2221299C; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:30:57 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:30:57 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.120]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 10:30:52 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: IDR List Thread-Topic: Agenda for meeting in 4 days Thread-Index: AQHUahjceyo3M6w9U0aOzBpAFjIM3qUsHDOw Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 02:30:51 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8913F@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <04810076-B433-4A52-9066-C0B5A121F509@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: 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c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2859; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1540264282; x=1541473882; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=QynhbJ58qVyCpEZgAG786CMwkp+jsGbkRxxugS6JaLw=; b=eABSJuDc5Jdnl/oKmu/0Uyo3g76tIpWc69wmk/+HKEEsoD8c0u+GqTTg u3Pq+r69yWlFUERhWNN1EXM6LSWW7D3K/RF5cqrE8nSsrzhQtwA4LDt6I 2//CWwcb9TzFVZY6NsPZlQt0FuxeocDdf4AJo8WeIKDYBxAZUUSSk+6XQ I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AFAAA+kM5b/4sNJK1jGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBUQUBAQEBCwGBVS9mfygKjAOMHYINlxWBegsBARgNhEcChRU?= =?us-ascii?q?hNA0NAQMBAQIBAQJtHAELhToBAQYBODQXBgEZBAEBHzcLHQkBBBMIgxqCAQ+?= =?us-ascii?q?nV4QwAgxAhSiLUheBQT+BEYYtAQECAQEWhyECiFyVbAkCgVmFB4oIH4FSTIQ?= =?us-ascii?q?niWmJJYMziV4CERSBJh04gVVwFRohgmwJixCFPQFvjEeBHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,414,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="189459116" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Oct 2018 03:11:20 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w9N3BKoS029023 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:11:20 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:11:20 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:11:19 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Updates to draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery Thread-Index: AdRqfg7CwT+yIlHWRWelXPmtk6vIsQ== Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:11:19 +0000 Message-ID: <7ed1feee03204b9f86100bacc3e36347@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.19, xch-aln-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Updates to draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 03:11:25 -0000 Hi All, An update to the BGP Neighbor Discovery draft has been posted with the foll= owing key changes: 1) Added Applicability & Requirements sections in the draft to provide cont= ext and clarity on its objectives. 2) Updates to the Neighbor TLV and Adjacency FSM for more clarity and detai= ls based on the feedback received at the last IETF. 3) Improved scalability aspects by not requiring TLVs to be exchanged in pe= riodic hellos. 4) Other editorial changes and explanation for procedures and interactions = with base BGP protocol machinery. Would appreciate review and feedback from the WG. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Idr On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: 22 October 2018 19:03 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: idr@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : BGP Neighbor Discovery Authors : Xiaohu Xu Ketan Talaulikar Kunyang Bi Jeff Tantsura Nikos Triantafillis Filename : draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: BGP is being used as the underlay routing protocol in some large- scaled data centers (DCs). Most popular design followed is to do hop-by-hop external BGP (EBGP) session configurations between neighboring routers on a per link basis. The provisioning of BGP neighbors in routers across such a DC brings its own operational complexity. This document introduces a BGP neighbor discovery mechanism that greatly simplifies BGP operations in such DC and other networks by automatic setup of BGP sessions between neighbor routers using this mechanism. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-1= 0 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-xu-idr-neighbor-autodiscovery-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr From nobody Mon Oct 22 23:58:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1D9130E03; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:58:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char E2 hex): X-Spam-Report: ...\n\tout about the interim) \342\200\246 Yes, I would[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PA2L2KW7cNbj; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hated.at (mail.hated.at [IPv6:2001:858:2:8::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1A7A130E94; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 213-225-12-195.nat.highway.a1.net ([213.225.12.195] helo=[192.168.43.10]) by mail.hated.at with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1gEqdo-0006QM-VN; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:58:13 +0200 From: Christoph Loibl Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9001EB05-5ECE-42EA-AABB-6F49142F9DBC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 08:58:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Cc: idr wg , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2B8912B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 06:58:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9001EB05-5ECE-42EA-AABB-6F49142F9DBC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jie, I am sorry that my initial mail the other day did not reach you (I sent = it to Sue and John - according to the mail Sue sent out about the = interim) =E2=80=A6 Yes, I would like to present on the 5557-bis draft: In order to progress the draft, I would like to present roughly 10 = minutes on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09 and two possible changes in the = proposed behaviour that may need some more discussion on the working = group: a)=20 A property already in RFC 5575 that seemingly was ignored by pretty much = all the implemenations =E2=80=9CBGP opaque - NLRI) =20 b) Less restrictive interaction of interfering flow actions. Thanks for asking! Cheers Christoph --=20 Christoph Loibl c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at > On 23.10.2018, at 04:28, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >=20 > Hi Christoph, > =20 > We are building the agenda for the upcoming interim meeting. > =20 > Could you let us know whether you need a time slot in the interim to = present the update on 5575-bis and discuss the remained issues? > =20 > Best regards, > Jie > =20 > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Loibl > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:37 PM > To: idr wg > Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis > =20 > Hi, > =20 > On 05.10.2018, at 11:11, Christoph Loibl > = wrote: > =20 > I will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you pointed out = (see the previous Email in this thread - if I see no objections on the = list). At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects = (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where we are = heading for. > =20 > As promised, I uploaded a new version of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis = (-09) that addresses most of the minor issues pointed out by Jeffery in = a way posted on the list earlier. Issues that seem to need more = discussions have not been addressed by this new version (I may make a = short presentation on that in the interim next week). > =20 > Please look into the changes on datatracker: > =20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/ = > =20 > Cheers Christoph > =20 > --=20 > Christoph Loibl > c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | = http://www.nextlayer.at --Apple-Mail=_9001EB05-5ECE-42EA-AABB-6F49142F9DBC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Jie,

I am sorry that = my initial mail the other day did not reach you (I sent it to Sue and = John - according to the mail Sue sent out about the interim) =E2=80=A6 = Yes, I would like to present on the 5557-bis draft:

In order to progress the = draft, I would like to present roughly 10 minutes = on draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09 and two possible changes in the = proposed behaviour that may need some more discussion on the working = group:

= a) 

A property already in RFC 5575 that seemingly was ignored by = pretty much all the implemenations =E2=80=9CBGP opaque - NLRI) =  

= b)

Less = restrictive interaction of interfering flow actions.


Thanks for asking!

Cheers Christoph
-- 
Christoph = Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 = | http://www.nextlayer.at



On 23.10.2018, at 04:28, Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>= wrote:

Hi = Christoph,
 
We are building the agenda for the upcoming interim = meeting.
 
Could you let us know whether you need a time slot in the = interim to present the update on 5575-bis and discuss the remained = issues?
 
Best regards,
Jie
 
From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Christoph = Loibl
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 = 4:37 PM
To: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on = 5575-bis
 
Hi,
 
On 05.10.2018, at 11:11, = Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at> wrote:
 
I= will upload a new version repairing the minor issues you pointed out = (see the previous Email in this thread -  if I see no objections on = the list). At the same time I am not changing any of the other aspects = (discussed in this Email) until we have a rough idea where we are = heading for.
 
As promised, I uploaded a new version of = draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis (-09) that addresses most of the minor issues = pointed out by Jeffery in a way posted on the list earlier. Issues that = seem to need more discussions have not been addressed by this new = version (I may make a short presentation on that in the interim next = week).
 
Please look into the changes on = datatracker:
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/=
 
Cheers Christoph
 
-- 
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | = PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at

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HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V_sP_Xcg10EK for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 06:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9E6D130E05 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 06:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id a193-v6so813522qkc.13 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 06:50:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JywPlmAg3bSUpnfdtkXALwAH+s5JWEoi/CtIZjqEqbM=; b=DzV+fJSb6ZM7VMD5AHE8envuCHXklAopo4pHI/4DFQYvPEhlXpc4wNlYkPvhZ3t9zQ gUEVD+hQLXH5LdUKxSofVskX7HvG5MyODB35BHE85pi3TDyXERrDPPDUVKmuOFQ8/NLK dBx6e2JY6AkodwSNbpt5OwrVY1o4BltLMXO48zN8T7ggYilDAgXS0GUvil6qQM7BDp8r +LEh3ORDw5SsuDk1zK/nu5Xuv4GontzZ2TtoEk93iyJ3Fxf18zMBryIzd3wrYbK6X8E4 UWtuHs79CQsGFAl6K7DSl9ahRPKxTittYLgQjO0ecqi3Oy/7poLt+pCHMnlpDD/YSe4R bUag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JywPlmAg3bSUpnfdtkXALwAH+s5JWEoi/CtIZjqEqbM=; b=mn/H8mk7NCGhmNzZLdoGgSFir3GKvsjj5IucCLCHN5O6B+1CBKh1fS2eCW2cRvNxkj adzJsH3o30AVeLc60Z8ZE6cCA+rSjHU9xaG+2VA8XHLgDXNdpwvAey8yDFWmSuIy2KPv yWhtsHY25JD72iC8nRoCh8MmpB+2Em0UkEsrqml9x9g8Ms2FxNDXVwHBuVFkX2H8Rszr QCG/ojYg0Yr43vY6GvepNO/ZUrnuh1IH8Y/zWjnn8Vfdr13n6RnHRFV1TPv+51vYc1Pc rvGKWyKCU0HX3bmACtaLIPCq06OQtKBlzxtdKZB22EA+vXQBpFkt4EzhwM+VkCVJ2aAE 4Yyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLwqJTTRTYzE4nVhracjQddi3i3XNopufoqvpQriMDzf51NzF0Z DslIe2B7cRRrZKvBl22bfPbeIQlwkohP+KrSn/knYtAZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cegf7UkjvpjLjlnPr4h1i1x7n/ceCEvlAl65DB7xRYIy35tlT9rqXAsvz6f7M7bUwItGH5watp6PAMMXNkdK8= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6749:: with SMTP id b70mr1216234qkc.41.1540302651976; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 06:50:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:50:40 +0200 Message-ID: To: ju1738@att.com Cc: idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006afd340578e5a8cc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Multi Instance BGP X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 13:50:55 -0000 --0000000000006afd340578e5a8cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, This goes without saying :) Each BGP instance is 100% independent from each other in all respect. You can assign same or different AS numbers to it. You can also assign same or different SAFIs to each (case where you trust more your hardware then BGP code and want to run for free N BGP planes for a given SAFI (or rolling new feature first into test plane) . So the MI-BGP supports your wish day one. If you think that we should add more text to describe this explicitely I am very happy to do that, but was actually trying to trim the text :) Many thx for your review ! Robert. On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 3:33 PM UTTARO, JAMES wrote: > *Robert,* > > > > * I see no mention of being able to assign different AS > numbers to different instances.. At various times over the years I have > identified the rationale for assigning different AS numbers based on > AFI/SAFI on a given router. As an ex FlowSpec, L3VPN, L2VPN=E2=80=A6 on t= he same > box may require a service provider to organize the AS numbering that is > optimized for one of these but is problematic for others. This then > requires AS manipulation on a per box basis which is undesirable.. Would = it > make sense to add this separation along with AFI/SAFI in this doc??* > > > > *Thanks,* > > * Jim Uttaro* > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2018 5:11 PM > *To:* idr@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Idr] Multi Instance BGP > > > > Hello, > > > > To meet the submission deadline I uploaded a below proposal for Multi > Instance BGP. > > > > Please do not hesitate to provide any comments on or off the list. > > > > I consider it as first possible step to separate BGP-LS (or for that > matter other non > > routing related data) into independent BGP process primarily targeting to > run > > on the x86 general compute hardware without making any changes to BGP cod= e > > therefor making it 100% backwards compatible. > > > > If there is need we could discuss it during the interim meeting, otherwis= e > we could > > just keep it for the list based comments. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:00 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Robert Raszuk and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-raszuk-mi-bgp > Revision: 00 > Title: Multi Instance BGP > Document date: 2018-10-22 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 9 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp/ > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00 > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp > > > > Abstract: > As the number of operational use cases of BGP grows there is demand > to increase the level of separation and processing independence > between various address families carried by BGP today. This document > augments base BGP specification in allowing local configuration of > BGP port number by the operator to run parallel fully disjoined BGP > instances allowing full processing separation between them. > > While local BGP implementation may already assure BGP process or > thread robustnes the general aim here is to allow similar level of > groups of BGP address families independence when running BGP code on > general purpose hardware as well as x86 based route reflectors.. > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org > > . > > The IETF Secretariat > --0000000000006afd340578e5a8cc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jim,

This goes without saying :) Eac= h BGP instance is 100% independent from each other in all respect. You can = assign same or different AS numbers to it.=C2=A0

Y= ou can also assign same or different SAFIs to each (case where you trust mo= re your hardware then BGP code and want to run for free N BGP planes for a = given SAFI (or rolling new feature first into test plane) .=C2=A0

So the MI-BGP supports your wish day one. If you think that= we should add more text to describe this explicitely I am very happy to do= that, but was actually trying to trim the text :)=C2=A0

Many thx for your review !
Robert.





On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 3:33 PM UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I see no menti= on of being able to assign different AS numbers to different instances.. At= various times over the years I have identified the rationale for assigning different AS numbers based on AFI/SAFI on a gi= ven router. As an ex FlowSpec, L3VPN, L2VPN=E2=80=A6 on the same box may re= quire a service provider to organize the AS numbering that is optimized for= one of these but is problematic for others. This then requires AS manipulation on a per box basis which is undesirable= .. Would it make sense to add this separation along with AFI/SAFI in this d= oc??

=C2=A0=

Thanks,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Jim Uttaro<= /u>

=C2=A0=

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 5:11 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] Multi Instance BGP

=C2=A0

Hello,

=C2=A0

To meet the submission deadline I uploaded a below p= roposal for Multi Instance BGP.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Please do not hesitate to provide any comments on or= off the list.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I consider it as first possible step to separate BGP= -LS (or for that matter other non=C2=A0

routing related data) into independent BGP process p= rimarily targeting to run=C2=A0

on the x86 general compute hardware without making a= ny changes to BGP code=C2=A0

therefor making it 100% backwards compatible.=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

If there is need we could discuss it during the inte= rim meeting, otherwise we could=C2=A0

just keep it for the list based comments.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

Robert

=C2=A0

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:00 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt<= /u>


A new version of I-D, draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Robert Raszuk and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-raszuk-mi-bgp
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Multi Instance BGP
Document date:=C2=A0 2018-10-22
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools= .ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://= datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As the number of operational use cases of BGP grows there is d= emand
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to increase the level of separation and processing independenc= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0between various address families carried by BGP today.=C2=A0 T= his document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0augments base BGP specification in allowing local configuratio= n of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP port number by the operator to run parallel fully disjoine= d BGP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0instances allowing full processing separation between them.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0While local BGP implementation may already assure BGP process = or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0thread robustnes the general aim here is to allow similar leve= l of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0groups of BGP address families independence when running BGP c= ode on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0general purpose hardware as well as x86 based route reflectors= ..

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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<154032821305.31365.8307991805208097767@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 13:56:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-08.txt X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 20:56:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Distribution of MPLS-TE Extended admin Group Using BGP Authors : Zitao Wang Qin Wu Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-08.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2018-10-23 Abstract: As MPLS-TE network grows, administrative Groups advertised as a fixed-length 32-bit Bitmask is quite constraining. "Extended Administrative Group" IGP TE extensions sub-TLV is introduced to provide for additional administrative groups (link colors) beyond the current limit of 32. This document describes extensions to BGP protocol, that can be used to distribute extended administrative groups in MPLS-TE. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-eag-distribution-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 23 19:43:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2730A130E5F for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b-8KZ-hQ7GWu for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C1D3130E51 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A6E7DAC57C18C for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:43:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:43:45 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.103]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.193]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:43:40 -0700 From: Linda Dunbar To: "idr@ietf.org" CC: "jgs@juniper.net" , "shares@ndzh.com" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?U2Vla2luZyBmZWVkYmFjayB0byByZXF1ZXN0aW5nIGEgU0QtV0FOICBTQUZJ?= =?utf-8?B?IGZvciBhZHZlcnRpc2luZyAgU0QtV0FOIGVkZ2Ugbm9kZeKAmXMgY2FwYWJp?= =?utf-8?B?bGl0aWVzOiAgZHJhZnQtZHVuYmFyLWlkci1iZ3Atc2R3YW4tb3ZlcmxheS1l?= =?utf-8?Q?xt-00.txt?= Thread-Index: AdRrMj6MSRqSF4whQHGpN/KyHiyj9w== Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 02:43:39 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17C733@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.128.114] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17C733sjceml521mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] =?utf-8?q?Seeking_feedback_to_requesting_a_SD-WAN__SAFI_fo?= =?utf-8?q?r_advertising__SD-WAN_edge_node=E2=80=99s_capabilities=3A__draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 02:43:52 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17C733sjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC814130E36 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 00:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 080C6B630707A for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:49:48 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:49:49 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.120]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:49:42 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: IDR List Thread-Topic: Agenda of IDR Interim Meeting on October 26 Thread-Index: AdRsFL0pXVMHt2R1TW6iKaanW1pWXQ== Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 07:49:41 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2BAC5E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2BAC5E0NKGEML515MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Agenda of IDR Interim Meeting on October 26 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 07:50:02 -0000 --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2BAC5E0NKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, Sorry for being late in publishing the agenda of the interim meeting. We re= ceived more slot requests than we could accommodate, thus the chairs and AD= considered to leave some topics to another interim in future . Presenters, please prepare your slides for the presentation. It would be be= tter if you send your slides to chairs and secretary, or you may need to sh= are your own screen in the meeting. The Webex meeting info will be provided in a separate mail. ----------------- IDR Interim Meeting before IETF 103 Date & Time: 2018.10.26 10:00 - 12:00 ET (UTC -4) Webex meeting information: to be provided Agenda: 1. Chair's Slides [10 min] 2. BGP Extension for SDWAN Overlay Networks Linda Dunbar [10 min] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext-00 3. BGP Autodiscovery: Chairs [10 min] 4. Application Specific Attributes Advertisement with BGP Link-State = Ketan Talaulikar/Peter Psenak [10 min] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr 5. Discussion on growing BGP-LS attributes [20 min] 6. Flowspec Indirection-id Redirect for SRv6 Huaimo Chen [5 min] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf0-idr-srv6-flowspec-path-redirect/ 7. BGP FlowSpec Extensions for Routing Policy Distribution (RPD) Hua= imo Chen [10 min] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd/ 8. BGP Extensions for IDs Allocation Huaimo Chen [10 min] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-idr-bgp-segment-allocation-ext/ 9. RFC 5575-bis: Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules Christop= h Loibl [10] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09 10. Detection and Mitigation of BGP Route Leaks Alexander / Sriram [10= ] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-= 10 11. Aggregating BGP routes in Massive Scale Data Centers Jakob Heitz [= 15 min] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-heitz-idr-msdc-bgp-aggregation-00 Best regards, Jie --_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2BAC5E0NKGEML515MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

Sorry for being late in publish= ing the agenda of the interim meeting. We received more slot requests than = we could accommodate, thus the chairs and AD considered to leave some topic= s to another interim in future .

 

Presenters, please prepare your= slides for the presentation. It would be better if you send your slides to= chairs and secretary, or you may need to share your own screen in the meet= ing.

 

The Webex meeting info will be = provided in a separate mail.

 

-----------------

IDR Inte= rim Meeting before IETF 103

 

Date & Time: 2018.10.26 10:= 00 – 12:00 ET (UTC -4)

 

Webex meeting information: to b= e provided

 

Agenda:

1= .   &= nbsp;   Chair’s Slides [1= 0 min]

 

2= .   &= nbsp;   BGP Extension for SDWAN= Overlay Networks   Linda Dunbar [10 min]

https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext-00

 =

3= .   &= nbsp;   BGP Autodiscovery: Chai= rs [10 min]

=  

4= .   &= nbsp;   Application Specific At= tributes Advertisement with BGP Link-State   Ketan Talaulikar/Pet= er Psenak [10 min]

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr<= o:p>

=  

5= .   &= nbsp;   Discussion on growing B= GP-LS attributes [20 min]

=  

6= .   &= nbsp;   Flowspec Indirection-id= Redirect for SRv6   Huaimo Chen [5 min]

https://tools.= ietf.org/html/draft-ietf0-idr-srv6-flowspec-path-redirect/

=  

7= .   &= nbsp;   BGP FlowSpec Extensions= for Routing Policy Distribution (RPD)  Huaimo Chen [10 min]

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-li-idr-flowspec-rpd/

 =

8= .   &= nbsp;   BGP Extensions for IDs = Allocation   Huaimo Chen [10 min]

= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-idr-bgp-seg= ment-allocation-ext/

 

9= .   &= nbsp;   RFC 5575-bis: Dissemina= tion of Flow Specification Rules   Christoph Loibl [10]

= https://tools.ietf.org/ht= ml/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-09

 

1= 0.   Detection and Mitigatio= n of BGP Route Leaks    Alexander / Sriram [10]

= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-= idr-route-leak-detection-mitigation-10

=  

1= 1.   Aggregating BGP routes = in Massive Scale Data Centers   Jakob Heitz  [15 min]

= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-heitz-idr-msdc-= bgp-aggregation-00

 

Best regards,=

Jie

--_000_76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2BAC5E0NKGEML515MBSchi_-- From nobody Thu Oct 25 11:20:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A542A130E41 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:20:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zFthxTcThKHN for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjmda11.webex.com (sjmda11.webex.com [64.68.124.128]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3AB12D7EA for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 00:59:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0klZWkc256qW for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 00:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (mta6.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9029C127AC2 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 00:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (vs2.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.123]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9Q7wvIK006859; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:58:58 +0100 Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9432204E; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:58:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs2.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 339152204A; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:58:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from 950129200 ([135.238.155.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9Q7wui5030916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:58:57 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Robert Raszuk'" Cc: , References: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 08:58:55 +0100 Message-ID: <0d9b01d46d01$bf070450$3d150cf0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQGKzxTtl3Dp+qNLhgwQ+LdrmI+ZAQGjgLIhAWxT3KClq9/5MA== X-Originating-IP: 135.238.155.250 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24180.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--9.307-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--9.307-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24180.005 X-TMASE-Result: 10--9.306500-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: ZFzIhWOuIzvxIbpQ8BhdbFt3XMydUaMXePcAZXHoK11GYDjco1E5REwI 4TOF24OPk2Ts4nD9oJR16wzuPSPCstkrWtCrI2IZsyNb+yeIRAphjS00Z2+WLSMlNiyEyQgPYuY RNmmVqpDYjPPchvRPFP+d8LoybRqLrA5sJm1utfvAJnGRMfFxyWWzwZQ2L6jN60UhjUJIJGFLCM Yt+C2yUouSfPmbDmg4WZZr4zBICnNB01wg86iRsGK/fSJiGWn4lnrMq7Sriu21YUw9VHYKvGD0I ss+RwQE53wj9h4cTpu51lwcbqbSskHWbmeNr66ROuYv9zBApTy7nrAU9KQxUWd3jQ7Rbm5gXRAp ulKqWOrSz9v2O6TnbbjL3xjbIcScy89ZiJ9C0P31NV6Ztjddks+Rqpudb1Mbf7FDYGpyXq0Y6oM tgLjWIqyllYROb8WGQofD0KsvS4ouFOuOD0D2lNh3b7/zBhN1NACnndLvXwcxiSY0g7v6FkiTNh btK9IhP8gvK4YYj0lJBXfF88zVLqzDUNyZ8uGAT7jCYv2QJPEjrNaFrgArlZsoi2XrUn/Jsuf7R WbvUtwFdbsG+ieXxwtuKBGekqUpI/NGWt0UYPA0m7lAbmR1Z80xzy6ylgQdhZ4uverwt2YaCkIe 10A7VVSe7XPfCxbq X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:59:08 -0000 Sorry for the delay, Robert: travel. >> IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and = stability. =20 > > I don't see any summarization in the current encoding as most > if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from=20 > IGP drafts and RFCs.=20 Encoding does not (and should not) reflect summarization. Summarization is the process of taking n components and representing = them as m ( Stability is also not there as now we have a lot of dynamic data = without > any new advertise-time thresholds being set - so we are just relying = on > IGP flooding thresholds.=20 If summarization is in use, then a small change to the IGP database = might cause no change to the summarized information. Furthermore, the summarization algorithm should (IMHO) be damped with = some form of thresholding. And even if you use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database (against = my advice :-), you can apply damping. Most of the use cases I am aware of use BGP-LS to extract a summary of = the IGP information for TE purposes. TE is usually a damped process, and = operates on summarized information. Possibly, another use case is "cross-domain reachability". That is also = a form of summarization, and is relatively stable in the face of = intra-network changes. In short, there is no strong binding between the IGP and BGP-LS: neither = temporal, nor informational. The use of a common encoding does not imply = simultaneous or identical data. BGP-LS is a protocol spec. We could make a good case that there should = be more documentation of how/when to use the protocol, but since it is a = p2p protocol, I don't think that material belongs in the protocol spec. = With this in mind, I helped to write RFC 7926 for a specific TE = scenario, and draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway for a reachability/TE = use case. > BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free TCP transport. > That's it. If our link state protocols would run over TCP from any = node > to controller (well Henk & Gunter just proposed it for ISIS) or if = there > would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filtered feed of LSDB or = TED > over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-LS.=20 > > So today we are just growing single BGP-LS Attribute. Such attribute > content changes depending if it is part of Node NLRI, Link NLRI or > Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which are static and > which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic when > they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an=20 > implicit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat = everything > for given link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call = this > a "summarization" ? No, that's not what I call a summarization as I hope I made clear. > Further imagine controller and operator only needs 10% of the=20 > information for his specific application. Well hard luck as there is > no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of the attribute=20 > content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use.=20 > > What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-sub message > transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And this > all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :).=20 Adrian From nobody Fri Oct 26 02:20:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9C5128CF2 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:20:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KYukJokfZcAG for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390261293FB for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CCCAA1E455; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:19:33 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Christoph Loibl Cc: idr wg Message-ID: <20181026091933.GJ12336@pfrc.org> References: <20180712185855.GQ12853@pfrc.org> <46D2DE8D-F552-444B-82C8-46DF301B1D10@tix.at> <20181004162737.GD17157@pfrc.org> <06EA9BDF-14C4-494B-AB5C-8C5264A10317@tix.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Feedback on 5575-bis X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:20:12 -0000 On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:36:37AM +0200, Christoph Loibl wrote: > As promised, I uploaded a new version of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis (-09) that addresses most of the minor issues pointed out by Jeffery in a way posted on the list earlier. Issues that seem to need more discussions have not been addressed by this new version (I may make a short presentation on that in the interim next week). And for the record, aside from the issues you hope to discuss at the interim, I believe this addresses my comments to date. -- Jeff From nobody Fri Oct 26 02:25:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D2112F1A2; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:25:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gg_mQ0cZOKPj; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85FF128CF2; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DBB101E455; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:24:21 -0400 From: Jeffrey Haas To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181026092421.GK12336@pfrc.org> References: <0785b8a46a8049989699a5f41a2e371a@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0785b8a46a8049989699a5f41a2e371a@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] WG adoption request for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:25:01 -0000 On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 06:35:06AM +0000, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > On behalf of the authors of this draft, I would like to request for IDR WG adoption request for this BGP-LS extension draft that advertises SBFD discriminators from IGPs. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ > > This draft was presented @ IETF 102 in Montreal. I support adoption of this draft. -- Jeff From nobody Fri Oct 26 05:36:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4538130DC0 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SEV6k-FlKZ7H for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com (mail-qt1-x82a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C7D0130E03 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id b22-v6so951725qtr.11 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4kiC2+xGuu/9U0q1OmFWEVQadpz8s+qmjhFHwn4TIKE=; b=Yc8mwSqSumq0zzqu5KFShRgXeF1cG+VMetali+VBZjatehpQ9CjvmTvz1Vkq1w+7wi kmuZk6yFrMLSRyCmK8lNu96T1irtBZHocbmmp3+5bQrMktn/GHeJ/5KHVwOeoF4Y/km+ MuRAl+l7z2Bv9+h0lC9trQO+/jp82XZwgR8TxHcX4pwXXbDTNNJywgVc5WI84Cz8N0B2 23U+5hdOKuQ7tw/pYc7/u30lLD7NgpGa7zo+ikyXdBk8p7a3V0lx02d4vO3V9ywg0Xov AM8jEIqW4ItuWh/d755u5961Sefci56WnMJXrROkRNOgGgb8xKkVkZYEa1K7HavRvpOw n66w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4kiC2+xGuu/9U0q1OmFWEVQadpz8s+qmjhFHwn4TIKE=; b=iMemFhqnpfiUADXjwOQclHuiBr6Jto7GCq/1/B1UGe6PNWZprgrA95do0YWFna1Fdv x5fd6DkLovS4qJ8IStJQyk/u+zcio5umLTCkhSWfRzFPXjWBpYq2GXpjXr1AMD+8kst/ xu4ETFB0BRKZ/shXDrs/Jlu4yTcMfxg2P9LLnGT81FO894fNdbJvx/aBYmbeiDtPHEHc nRzvanPIgNWBeHECXpVsAP0bQW69sRqO8tT4wfs61g+Id2gRbyjyE/AxlJx1TvpYCuqS hy9S8qNKMCgzw6cLGip/Lb0GHvFYJtOB0SReOsyTJOFiEfzaw/7e1nzf0jct+6Ed5Tju 5baQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIfxuWgrWyC+K36PHNjsAvnwIyakv3BGbnglvH+tF1XptbTdIrU K73S5zFLCH0cEFpeZct/09ZvYu0/V6aRvkhvyJX1YaMZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5e1NeeLcFfWFtPq37phOjeXUmHAfjGlutHae1jwxyOF69/zZJ05rLFxv9qsnoGcoAU/IWx7B246bgFbDUvJWZQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:73d2:: with SMTP id v18-v6mr256043qtp.361.1540557383506; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:36:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> <0d9b01d46d01$bf070450$3d150cf0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0d9b01d46d01$bf070450$3d150cf0$@olddog.co.uk> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:36:13 +0200 Message-ID: To: adrian@olddog.co.uk Cc: idr@ietf.org, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000099b8ea057920f7b9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:36:30 -0000 --00000000000099b8ea057920f7b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Adrian, Is all fine what you are describing. But tell us why it has to be BGP job ? You already have efficient telemetry streaming out of the router. Why it can not be used as transport for all this information p2p between router and controller ? Best R. On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 09:59 Adrian Farrel wrote: > Sorry for the delay, Robert: travel. > > >> IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and > stability. > > > > I don't see any summarization in the current encoding as most > > if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from > > IGP drafts and RFCs. > > Encoding does not (and should not) reflect summarization. > Summarization is the process of taking n components and representing them > as m ( - omitting > - aggregating > - virtualizing > > The summarized things look like links. Some may really be IGP links > reported straight through; some might be virtual links. In both cases they > use the same encoding: they are presented as links. > > Of course, one could use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database, and > that is not summarization. I would argue to not use BGP-LS if that is the > function you want to deliver. > > > Stability is also not there as now we have a lot of dynamic data without > > any new advertise-time thresholds being set - so we are just relying on > > IGP flooding thresholds. > > If summarization is in use, then a small change to the IGP database might > cause no change to the summarized information. > Furthermore, the summarization algorithm should (IMHO) be damped with some > form of thresholding. > And even if you use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database (against > my advice :-), you can apply damping. > > Most of the use cases I am aware of use BGP-LS to extract a summary of the > IGP information for TE purposes. TE is usually a damped process, and > operates on summarized information. > > Possibly, another use case is "cross-domain reachability". That is also a > form of summarization, and is relatively stable in the face of > intra-network changes. > > In short, there is no strong binding between the IGP and BGP-LS: neither > temporal, nor informational. The use of a common encoding does not imply > simultaneous or identical data. > > BGP-LS is a protocol spec. We could make a good case that there should be > more documentation of how/when to use the protocol, but since it is a p2p > protocol, I don't think that material belongs in the protocol spec. With > this in mind, I helped to write RFC 7926 for a specific TE scenario, and > draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway for a reachability/TE use case. > > > BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free TCP transport. > > That's it. If our link state protocols would run over TCP from any node > > to controller (well Henk & Gunter just proposed it for ISIS) or if there > > would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filtered feed of LSDB or TED > > over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-LS. > > > > So today we are just growing single BGP-LS Attribute. Such attribute > > content changes depending if it is part of Node NLRI, Link NLRI or > > Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which are static and > > which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic when > > they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an > > implicit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat everything > > for given link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call > this > > a "summarization" ? > > No, that's not what I call a summarization as I hope I made clear. > > > Further imagine controller and operator only needs 10% of the > > information for his specific application. Well hard luck as there is > > no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of the attribute > > content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use. > > > > What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-sub message > > transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And this > > all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :). > > Adrian > > --00000000000099b8ea057920f7b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Adrian,

Is a= ll fine what you are describing. But tell us why it has to be BGP job ?

You already have efficient = telemetry streaming out of the router. Why it can not be used as transport = for all this information p2p between router and controller ?

Best
R.
<= /div>
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, = 09:59 Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddo= g.co.uk> wrote:
Sorry for th= e delay, Robert: travel.

>> IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and sta= bility.=C2=A0
>
> I don't see any summarization in the current encoding as most
> if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from
> IGP drafts and RFCs.

Encoding does not (and should not) reflect summarization.
Summarization is the process of taking n components and representing them a= s m (<n) components by;
- omitting
- aggregating
- virtualizing

The summarized things look like links. Some may really be IGP links reporte= d straight through; some might be virtual links. In both cases they use the= same encoding: they are presented as links.

Of course, one could use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database, and t= hat is not summarization. I would argue to not use BGP-LS if that is the fu= nction you want to deliver.

> Stability is also not there as now we have a lot of dynamic data witho= ut
> any new advertise-time thresholds being set - so we are just relying o= n
> IGP flooding thresholds.

If summarization is in use, then a small change to the IGP database might c= ause no change to the summarized information.
Furthermore, the summarization algorithm should (IMHO) be damped with some = form of thresholding.
And even if you use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database (against my= advice :-), you can apply damping.

Most of the use cases I am aware of use BGP-LS to extract a summary of the = IGP information for TE purposes. TE is usually a damped process, and operat= es on summarized information.

Possibly, another use case is "cross-domain reachability". That i= s also a form of summarization, and is relatively stable in the face of int= ra-network changes.

In short, there is no strong binding between the IGP and BGP-LS: neither te= mporal, nor informational. The use of a common encoding does not imply simu= ltaneous or identical data.

BGP-LS is a protocol spec. We could make a good case that there should be m= ore documentation of how/when to use the protocol, but since it is a p2p pr= otocol, I don't think that material belongs in the protocol spec. With = this in mind, I helped to write RFC 7926 for a specific TE scenario, and dr= aft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway for a reachability/TE use case.

> BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free TCP transport.
> That's it. If our link state protocols would run over TCP from any= node
> to controller (well Henk & Gunter=C2=A0 just proposed it for ISIS)= or if there
> would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filtered feed of LSDB or T= ED
> over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-LS.
>
> So today we are just growing single BGP-LS Attribute. Such attribute > content changes depending if it is part of Node NLRI, Link NLRI or
> Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which are static and > which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic when
> they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an
> implicit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat everythin= g
> for given link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call = this
> a "summarization" ?

No, that's not what I call a summarization as I hope I made clear.

> Further imagine controller and operator only needs 10% of the
> information for his specific application. Well hard luck as there is > no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of the attribute
> content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use.
>
> What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-sub message
> transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And this
> all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :).

Adrian

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"adrian@olddog.co.uk" CC: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute Thread-Index: AQHUaG3oQJn1YbjS8EOwigjJXoXthaUotIKAgAAFTgCACMyhgIAATXqA//+1psA= Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:18:54 +0000 Message-ID: <7569a7d94a704bf697f7a15e13cb861c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> <0d9b01d46d01$bf070450$3d150cf0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.68.219.125] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7569a7d94a704bf697f7a15e13cb861cXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xch-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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<0d9b01d46d01$bf070450$3d150cf0$@olddog.co.uk> <7569a7d94a704bf697f7a15e13cb861c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7569a7d94a704bf697f7a15e13cb861c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:40:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, idr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fc01bf057921dea2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:41:10 -0000 --000000000000fc01bf057921dea2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ketan, The discussion is not turning .. it has always been about questioning principle to use BGP where and when there are better alternatives. And while I am not against code reuse (same code as BGP) I am highly against two things: 1. Using IGP and TE information propagation together with routing SAFIs in the same process - hence I proposed https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00 to at least short term allow to run BGP-LS on *completely* separate and isolated process 2. Waisting IDR precious time which if I recall used to stand for Inter-Domain Routing WG and not for Inter-Domain Reporting WG to engage with never ending flood of defining encoding for all IGP and TE and SR and BFD etc... extensions. That's really sick. We only get 2h 3 times a year and it would be huge disservice to BGP to take that time for extending it with new TLVs. If you like create a new WG dedicated to manage SAFI 71 & 72 making sure it will run in fully separate process from other use reachability propagation use cases of real BGP. Thx, R. PS. And your comment that sending this to two or three controllers makes it multi-point and and that is "one of the key benefit leveraged from base BGP" is simply amazing :) On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:18 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hi Robert, > > > > I think the discussion is again turning from encoding (i.e. handling of > growing BGP-LS attribute size) to questioning the role and use of BGP-LS. > > > > I agree with what Adrian has stated (except the part about p2p =E2=80=93 = it can be > used p2mp to feed multiple/redundant controllers and that is one of the k= ey > benefit leveraged from base BGP). There is damping at IGP but then also o= ne > that can be applied at BGP(-LS) level in the implementations that I know. > We could document guidelines for use and applicability. > > > > However, coming to the topic of the BGP-LS attribute. We do need to > consider > > a) The 4K limit and therefore perhaps enabling a BGP-LS NLRI to be > split across multiple update messages. Similar to how we have LSP fragmen= ts > in ISIS or multiple instances of the LSA (e.g. RI LSA) in OSPF. This woul= d > also enable splitting of information across updates and perhaps segregate > information into static or dynamic or based on application. > > b) Another aspect not documented/discussed is filtering out of > Attribute TLVs that are not of interest. > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* 26 October 2018 20:36 > *To:* adrian@olddog.co.uk > *Cc:* idr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute > > > > Adrian, > > > > Is all fine what you are describing. But tell us why it has to be BGP job= ? > > > > You already have efficient telemetry streaming out of the router. Why it > can not be used as transport for all this information p2p between router > and controller ? > > > > Best > > R. > > > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 09:59 Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Sorry for the delay, Robert: travel. > > >> IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and > stability. > > > > I don't see any summarization in the current encoding as most > > if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from > > IGP drafts and RFCs. > > Encoding does not (and should not) reflect summarization. > Summarization is the process of taking n components and representing them > as m ( - omitting > - aggregating > - virtualizing > > The summarized things look like links. Some may really be IGP links > reported straight through; some might be virtual links. In both cases the= y > use the same encoding: they are presented as links. > > Of course, one could use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database, and > that is not summarization. I would argue to not use BGP-LS if that is the > function you want to deliver. > > > Stability is also not there as now we have a lot of dynamic data withou= t > > any new advertise-time thresholds being set - so we are just relying on > > IGP flooding thresholds. > > If summarization is in use, then a small change to the IGP database might > cause no change to the summarized information. > Furthermore, the summarization algorithm should (IMHO) be damped with som= e > form of thresholding. > And even if you use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database (against > my advice :-), you can apply damping. > > Most of the use cases I am aware of use BGP-LS to extract a summary of th= e > IGP information for TE purposes. TE is usually a damped process, and > operates on summarized information. > > Possibly, another use case is "cross-domain reachability". That is also a > form of summarization, and is relatively stable in the face of > intra-network changes. > > In short, there is no strong binding between the IGP and BGP-LS: neither > temporal, nor informational. The use of a common encoding does not imply > simultaneous or identical data. > > BGP-LS is a protocol spec. We could make a good case that there should be > more documentation of how/when to use the protocol, but since it is a p2p > protocol, I don't think that material belongs in the protocol spec. With > this in mind, I helped to write RFC 7926 for a specific TE scenario, and > draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway for a reachability/TE use case. > > > BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free TCP transport. > > That's it. If our link state protocols would run over TCP from any node > > to controller (well Henk & Gunter just proposed it for ISIS) or if the= re > > would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filtered feed of LSDB or TE= D > > over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-LS. > > > > So today we are just growing single BGP-LS Attribute. Such attribute > > content changes depending if it is part of Node NLRI, Link NLRI or > > Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which are static and > > which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic when > > they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an > > implicit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat everything > > for given link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call > this > > a "summarization" ? > > No, that's not what I call a summarization as I hope I made clear. > > > Further imagine controller and operator only needs 10% of the > > information for his specific application. Well hard luck as there is > > no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of the attribute > > content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use. > > > > What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-sub message > > transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And this > > all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :). > > Adrian > > --000000000000fc01bf057921dea2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ketan,

=
The discussion is not turning .. it has always been about questioning = principle to use BGP where and when there are better alternatives.=C2=A0

And while I am not against code reuse (same code as = BGP) I am highly against two things:=C2=A0

1. Usin= g IGP and TE information propagation together with routing SAFIs in the sam= e process - hence I proposed=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-mi-bgp-00 to at least short term allow to run BGP-LS on *completely* separate and i= solated process


If you like create a new WG dedicated to manage SAFI 71 & 72 making su= re it will run in fully separate process from other use reachability propag= ation use cases of real BGP.=C2=A0


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 3:18 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <<= a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com">ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,

=C2=A0

I think the discussion= is again turning from encoding (i.e. handling of growing BGP-LS attribute = size) to questioning the role and use of BGP-LS.

=C2=A0

I agree with what Adri= an has stated (except the part about p2p =E2=80=93 it can be used p2mp to f= eed multiple/redundant controllers and that is one of the key benefit leveraged from base BGP). There is damping at IGP but then als= o one that can be applied at BGP(-LS) level in the implementations that I k= now. We could document guidelines for use and applicability.<= /span>

=C2=A0

However, coming to the= topic of the BGP-LS attribute. We do need to consider

a)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The 4K limit and = therefore perhaps enabling a BGP-LS NLRI to be split across multiple update= messages. Similar to how we have LSP fragments in ISIS or multiple instances of the LSA (e.g. RI LSA) in OSPF. This would= also enable splitting of information across updates and perhaps segregate = information into static or dynamic or based on application.

b)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Another aspect no= t documented/discussed is filtering out of Attribute TLVs that are not of i= nterest.

=C2=A0

Thanks,<= /span>

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: 26 October 2018 20:36
To: adrian@= olddog.co.uk
Cc: idr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute

=C2=A0

Adrian,

=C2=A0

Is all fine what you are describing. But tell us why= it has to be BGP job ?

=C2=A0

You already have efficient telemetry streaming out o= f the router. Why it can not be used as transport for all this information = p2p between router and controller ?

=C2=A0

Best

R.

=C2=A0

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 09:59 Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk&= gt; wrote:

Sorry for the delay, = Robert: travel.

>> IMHO, two fundamental concepts in BGP-LS are summarisation and sta= bility.=C2=A0
>
> I don't see any summarization in the current encoding as most
> if not all of the information being sent is verbatim taken from
> IGP drafts and RFCs.

Encoding does not (and should not) reflect summarization.
Summarization is the process of taking n components and representing them a= s m (<n) components by;
- omitting
- aggregating
- virtualizing

The summarized things look like links. Some may really be IGP links reporte= d straight through; some might be virtual links. In both cases they use the= same encoding: they are presented as links.

Of course, one could use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database, and t= hat is not summarization. I would argue to not use BGP-LS if that is the fu= nction you want to deliver.

> Stability is also not there as now we have a lot of dynamic data witho= ut
> any new advertise-time thresholds being set - so we are just relying o= n
> IGP flooding thresholds.

If summarization is in use, then a small change to the IGP database might c= ause no change to the summarized information.
Furthermore, the summarization algorithm should (IMHO) be damped with some = form of thresholding.
And even if you use BGP-LS to simply dump the full IGP database (against my= advice :-), you can apply damping.

Most of the use cases I am aware of use BGP-LS to extract a summary of the = IGP information for TE purposes. TE is usually a damped process, and operat= es on summarized information.

Possibly, another use case is "cross-domain reachability". That i= s also a form of summarization, and is relatively stable in the face of int= ra-network changes.

In short, there is no strong binding between the IGP and BGP-LS: neither te= mporal, nor informational. The use of a common encoding does not imply simu= ltaneous or identical data.

BGP-LS is a protocol spec. We could make a good case that there should be m= ore documentation of how/when to use the protocol, but since it is a p2p pr= otocol, I don't think that material belongs in the protocol spec. With = this in mind, I helped to write RFC 7926 for a specific TE scenario, and draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway fo= r a reachability/TE use case.

> BGP-LS has just one fundamental convenience - free TCP transport.
> That's it. If our link state protocols would run over TCP from any= node
> to controller (well Henk & Gunter=C2=A0 just proposed it for ISIS)= or if there
> would be a BMP analogy to IGPs (get full or filtered feed of LSDB or T= ED
> over TCP) there would be very limited need for BGP-LS.
>
> So today we are just growing single BGP-LS Attribute. Such attribute > content changes depending if it is part of Node NLRI, Link NLRI or
> Prefix NLRI. Say take LInk NLRI there are TLVs which are static and > which are dynamic - well there is no way to only send dynamic when
> they change as in BGP subsequent update with the same NLRI is an
> implicit withdraw of the former. So you are forced to repeat everythin= g
> for given link NLRI regardless if even single value changes. You call = this
> a "summarization" ?

No, that's not what I call a summarization as I hope I made clear.

> Further imagine controller and operator only needs 10% of the
> information for his specific application. Well hard luck as there is > no way in general in BGP to ask for a subset of the attribute
> content. Neither RTC nor ORF would be of any use.
>
> What is needed here is an efficient and reliable pub-sub message
> transport - not just load of BGP TCP because it is there. And this
> all applies to trusted or untrusted or hybrid domain types :).

Adrian

--000000000000fc01bf057921dea2-- From nobody Fri Oct 26 06:46:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6281277C8; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:46:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EyhIXL-KX_kZ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x333.google.com (mail-ot1-x333.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::333]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A090130DED; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x333.google.com with SMTP id x4so1111984otg.3; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:46:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tuy355TRZYR5bJjomRuqdoP34jTMm6EcBpRTmprn2I0=; b=K+tNJs15ttWmc+BoBmuVRVPpv1Xoc68nkT0wZBD4HYnNLl/dbRWRthfFECj5WgZC3C X3LB/DntrinZvs105ufM4e4H3yK8bLXp3erlMiUYmujNVuNgBE1JTs4j2D8RAWTvh60n SfKZ5VGVD9W1hbX2PzAQO8LDsWOsHoV31IeEnLPJaXHHe1M4TiPBRIMG0Z3m8ekLEPBi olnHFhdNcLseWXTZ7sIe74pRGV2G9g3vwCbyFJZINacCTv5sf1qBm+QTOhRQ1GcYBJqg KO1j8AvqyXtVP+UWrLh/Lq8g23AwFoDHoPWTlfUnpS/KfoUmwJapaU7zHWyja/lRtdGS MihA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tuy355TRZYR5bJjomRuqdoP34jTMm6EcBpRTmprn2I0=; b=LY7/d/7y5Rty1ET3LGlqzpQAd3XEuYDFO9jjg0FtgEpSUMjYgNRqEGvTdsWHmsvob/ 6EF64HsUAAo9LLHDKGhaKG+fC7IoOE6wJZpHb/4LkVC5UN7iIfQhbrxPQOFraeVELr1w wJFWOrr0kHt090Eup7Nd1lTKLA54Yv85SX7uoI/NuIeYrxV8NcWtOGNxvv02sN5AvB5T Nr3opVcOP+vKzeFToA0zmjGHiSOAmnNu20unH+pcmPy/xnAmsJVstqtKAG3fWGAS/fZs hFeuwbhU9t+BcqKPr0RAraaELzRrGbf7Zjdz+n8ctWKjAZRzn9RlkXfL2G5q0svaaQc3 +3Eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKUvwAffmK4YLwlj+Gl8KsNgJrplaZUKvV7VHgJInFO4EyoeBq6 1WqzIpUcN30IJzpkUgiiwPVcamT0XBrMbTwNv78= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d0L7iGPBrZ/vjiN8WLck0uvvdmcpt0rpMn10+FYfc4vaPnIwMa3GdLauwQ1/E8grHgWPunqikriWO8/oH1kK8= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:22e6:: with SMTP id y93mr2306767ota.54.1540561607532; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:46:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <060a01d4688d$9166fc30$b434f490$@ndzh.com> From: Sam Aldrin Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:46:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Susan Hares Cc: idr@ietf.org, draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions@ietf.org, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005f266a057921f317" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] IPR call for draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions (prior to adoption call). X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:46:54 -0000 --0000000000005f266a057921f317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am not aware of any IPR, which was not disclosed and related to this draft. Thanks Sam On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:57 AM Susan Hares wrote: > The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to the WG > adoption call starting. After we have received all the IPR statements > from > the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call. > > WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement. For ease of > the > working group, the draft is at: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/ > > Cheerily, Susan Hares > > > --0000000000005f266a057921f317 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am not aware of any IPR, which was not disclosed and re= lated to this draft.

Thanks
Sam

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:57 AM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
The authors must indicate whether they know of any IPR prior to = the WG
adoption call starting.=C2=A0 =C2=A0After we have received all the IPR stat= ements from
the authors, we will begin the WG adoption call.=C2=A0

WG members are welcome to submit a 3rd party IPR statement.=C2=A0 For ease = of the
working group, the draft is at:

https://datatracker.= ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/

Cheerily, Susan Hares


--0000000000005f266a057921f317-- From nobody Fri Oct 26 06:55:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF6F12F1AB for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CNFw-S9BIiyJ for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com 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(ketant)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute Thread-Index: AQHUaG3oQJn1YbjS8EOwigjJXoXthaUotIKAgAAFTgCACMyhgIAATXqA//+1psCAAFxvAP//rkaQ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:55:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <008b01d46898$c6d2d2d0$54787870$@olddog.co.uk> <0d9b01d46d01$bf070450$3d150cf0$@olddog.co.uk> <7569a7d94a704bf697f7a15e13cb861c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.68.219.125] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_d0892ae211fc4f94ba76e5796014ea6bXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.19, xch-aln-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:55:14 -0000 --_000_d0892ae211fc4f94ba76e5796014ea6bXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUm9iZXJ0LA0KDQpQbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgaW5saW5lIGJlbG93Lg0KDQpGcm9tOiBSb2JlcnQg UmFzenVrIDxyb2JlcnRAcmFzenVrLm5ldD4NClNlbnQ6IDI2IE9jdG9iZXIgMjAxOCAyMTo0MQ0K VG86IEtldGFuIFRhbGF1bGlrYXIgKGtldGFudCkgPGtldGFudEBjaXNjby5jb20+DQpDYzogYWRy aWFuQG9sZGRvZy5jby51azsgaWRyQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0lkcl0gR3Jvd2lu ZyBCR1AtTFMgQXR0cmlidXRlDQoNCkhpIEtldGFuLA0KDQpUaGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBpcyBub3Qg dHVybmluZyAuLiBpdCBoYXMgYWx3YXlzIGJlZW4gYWJvdXQgcXVlc3Rpb25pbmcgcHJpbmNpcGxl IHRvIHVzZSBCR1Agd2hlcmUgYW5kIHdoZW4gdGhlcmUgYXJlIGJldHRlciBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZXMu DQoNCkFuZCB3aGlsZSBJIGFtIG5vdCBhZ2FpbnN0IGNvZGUgcmV1c2UgKHNhbWUgY29kZSBhcyBC R1ApIEkgYW0gaGlnaGx5IGFnYWluc3QgdHdvIHRoaW5nczoNCg0KMS4gVXNpbmcgSUdQIGFuZCBU 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2HzMGtVTHy_Y for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1802D130F37 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E9A06D73CC04C for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:00:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:00:38 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.120]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 22:00:34 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: Robert Raszuk , "randy@psg.com" CC: "idr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Idr] Growing BGP-LS Attribute Thread-Index: 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X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-10-29_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=452 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1810290143 Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Recording of October 26, 2018 IDR interim X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 15:25:28 -0000 Hi All, The recording is available here: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=3D6de208c314e7fcb229041a5ac290703d= (streaming) https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=3D9f63197e2f731e3a938472c49f0c8421= (download) Minutes aren't prepared yet. Regards, --John= From nobody Tue Oct 30 09:19:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001A512F295; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:19:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g48S3O4WPKxQ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B45AC12D4EA; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 74383BB4E8F0B; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:18:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:18:55 +0000 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.103]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.237]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:18:52 -0700 From: Linda Dunbar To: "idr@ietf.org" , "bess@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comparing using the SD-WAN Overlay SAFI specified by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext with the EVPN approach described by draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-00 Thread-Index: AdRwaEzosOxE1xU3QRyQAjdOk3ofww== Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:18:52 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17F9DE@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.102] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17F9DEsjceml521mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Idr] Comparing using the SD-WAN Overlay SAFI specified by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext with the EVPN approach described by draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-00 X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:19:02 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17F9DEsjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IDR group, BESS group, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext/ sp= ecifies a new BGP SAFI (=3D74) in order to advertise a SD-WAN edge node's c= apabilities in establishing SD-WAN overlay tunnels with other SD-WAN nodes = through third party untrusted networks. draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-00 describes an EVPN solution for PE nodes t= o exchange key and policy to create private pair-wise IPsec Security Associ= ations without IKEv2 point-to-point signaling or any other direct peer-to-p= eer session establishment messages. I think those two solutions are not conflicting with each other. Actually t= hey are compliment to each other to some degree. For example, - the Re-key mechanism described by draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-0= 0 can be utilized by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext - The SD-WAN Overlay SAFI can be useful to simplify the process on R= R to re-distribute the Tunnel End properties to authorized peers. - When SD-WAN edge nodes use private address, or no IP address, NAT = properties for the end points distribution described draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-s= dwan-overlay-ext is necessary. - The secure channel between SD-WAN edge nodes and RR described by d= raft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext is necessary. Any thoughts? Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17F9DEsjceml521mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IDR group, BESS group,

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dun= bar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext/ specifies a new BGP SAFI (=3D74) in orde= r to advertise a SD-WAN edge node’s capabilities in establishing SD-WAN overlay tunnels with other SD-WAN nodes through thi= rd party untrusted networks.

 

draft-sajassi-bess-sec= ure-evpn-00 describes an EVPN solution for PE nodes to exchange key and pol= icy to create private pair-wise IPsec Security Associations without IKEv2 p= oint-to-point signaling or any other direct peer-to-peer session establishment messages.

 

I think those two solu= tions are not conflicting with each other. Actually they are compliment to = each other to some degree. For example,

-       = ; the Re-key mechanism described by draft-sajassi-bes= s-secure-evpn-00 can be utilized by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext =  

-       = ; The SD-WAN Overlay SAFI can be useful to simplify t= he process on RR to re-distribute the Tunnel End properties to authorized p= eers.

-       = ; When SD-WAN edge nodes use private address, or no I= P address, NAT properties for the end points distribution described draft-d= unbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext is necessary.

-       = ; The secure channel between SD-WAN edge nodes and RR= described by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext is necessary.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thank you very much. <= o:p>

 

Linda Dunbar

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F66B17F9DEsjceml521mbschi_-- From nobody Tue Oct 30 22:04:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866DC124D68; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 22:04:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TdU9K5RAXQ31; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 22:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: 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"idr@ietf.org" , "bess@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [bess] Comparing using the SD-WAN Overlay SAFI specified by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext with the EVPN approach described by draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-00 Thread-Index: AQHUcNcrmdLiJU5oSUqEW64fomgVyA== Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 05:04:14 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.3.181015 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.41.94] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F7356C79E6D1491099290F0270CF1FA8ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.145, xch-rtp-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] [bess] Comparing using the SD-WAN Overlay SAFI specified by draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext with the EVPN approach described by draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn-00 X-BeenThere: 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On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:42 PM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

< up= dating the subject line to not confuse with a specific draft under review J= >

= =C2=A0

While w= e are doing this analysis for best way to achieve session isolation, how ab= out https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisessi= on-07 ?

= =C2=A0

Any fee= dback/inputs on this mechanism?

= =C2=A0

Thanks,=

Ketan

= =C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 19 October 2018 20:06
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

Robert: =

=C2=A0

My understanding is th= at you wish me to do a WG adoption call for the following draft:

=C2=A0

https://tools...i= etf.org/html/draft-raszuk-ti-bgp-01

=C2=A0

I will review the draf= t for an adoption call later today.=C2=A0 You will need to present at the I= DR interim so that the IDR WG can ask questions.

=C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:11 AM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

Acee:

=C2=A0

Thank you for your fee= dback on the bis and the ordering of the drafts.

=C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Hi Sue, Robert,<= /u>

I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk we need to gate all the extant BGP-LS drafts on the completion of this n= ew work improving the RFC 7752 considerations. I agree that it would be use= ful.

Thanks,

Acee<= /span>

=C2=A0

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org>= on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Friday, October 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: IDR List <i= dr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-ep= e-16.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[KT] When isolation is not followed the= n the BGP-LS AFI/SAFI share fate with the other MP BGP signaling. This can = result in update churn or errors hit on one would affect the other. The con= cern would be that BGP-LS topology churn should not come in the way of the (MP) BGP routing updates and slow = down convergence. The session bring down due to an error notification due t= o some error in BGP-LS encoding is also a likelihood. However, all of these= are not really specific to this BGP-LS extension and should be documented in general for BGP-LS. I volunte= er to help with that as a separate draft and putting some text like this he= ar does not seem like a good idea.

=C2=A0

[Sue] An additional draft is a fine way to ha= ndle this point as

this problem does impact =C2=A0all BGP-LS.=C2= =A0 I like this approach.

=C2=A0

However, if you take this approach we will ne= ed to have this draft

at a WG draft status before we can forward th= e other drafts to the

IESG.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can you spin this draft qui= ckly?=C2=A0 I will be glad to review it

and do a WG adoption call.=C2=A0 Can you get = it done over the weekend?

We can talk about it on the 26th.<= /span>

=C2=A0

Is your intention to &q= uot;document" the fate sharing issue or solve it ?=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

If this is about docume= nting obvious then sure new draft can be spinned over weekend.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

If this is however abou= t solving the issue I recommend we adopt BGP Transport Instance draft to WG= status and move BGP-LS to simply use new TCP port making it at least at th= e TCP session level fully independent from other SAFIs.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

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