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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Greetings for 2019:

 

The IDR chairs would like to start the new year by shipping IDR drafts past
WG LC to the IESG for publication.  We need your help with information on
implementations  on the following: 

 

.         draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria  

.         draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt

.         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt 

.         draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt  

 

Here's the information we have about these drafts: 

 

.         draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria (2 cisco
implementations)   

.         draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt  (no implementations) 

.         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt  (3 partial implementations) 

.         draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt  (3 full
implementations) 

 

 We have heard rumors of full implementations of the
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt.  

 

Please send any information you have to the chairs regarding
implementations. 

 

Susan Hares 

 

 

 


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Greetings =
for 2019:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The IDR chairs would like to start the new year by =
shipping IDR drafts past WG LC to the IESG for publication.&nbsp; We =
need your help with information on implementations &nbsp;on the =
following: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
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Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
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Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt <o:p></o:p></p><p =
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Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Here&#8217;s the information we have about these =
drafts: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria (2 cisco =
implementations) &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt&nbsp; (no =
implementations) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt &nbsp;(3 partial =
implementations) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span>draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt &nbsp;(3 =
full implementations) <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;We =
have heard rumors of full implementations of the =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Please send =
any information you have to the chairs regarding implementations. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Susan Hares <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From nobody Wed Jan  2 09:59:18 2019
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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Call for implementation information on drafts past WG LC
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Sue,

On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 08:48:20AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote:
> The IDR chairs would like to start the new year by shipping IDR drafts past
> WG LC to the IESG for publication.  We need your help with information on
> implementations  on the following: 
> 
>  
> 
> ..         draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria  

I will try to get you commentary on what level of conformance Juniper has
with this draft within the next two weeks.

> 
> ..         draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt

Juniper expects to have a release containing rtc-no-rt in a release targeted
for shipment early this year.

> ..         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt 
> 
> ..         draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt  

Juniper is one of the implementors of ORR.

-- Jeff


From nobody Wed Jan  2 11:01:03 2019
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Call for implementation information on drafts past WG LC
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Jeff:

Thank you letting me know regarding the following implementations: 

<snip> 
 
>          draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria  (Juniper
implementation, report 2 weeks pending) 
>          draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt (in early 2019 release) 
>          draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt  (supported) 


-- Jeff


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From: "Serpil Bayraktar (serpil)" <serpil@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Jeffrey Haas'" <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] Call for implementation information on drafts past WG LC
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From: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" <chengli13@huawei.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.dhody@huawei.com>, Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-li-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Dissemination of L2VPN Flow Specification Rules
        Authors         : Weiguo Hao
                          Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd
                          James Uttaro
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Shunwan Zhuang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2019-01-03

Abstract:
   This document defines a BGP flow-spec extension to disseminate L2 VPN
   Ethernet traffic filtering rules.  SAFI=134 in [RFC5575] is redefined
   for this purpose.  A new subset of component types and extended
   community also are defined.  A new subset of component types and new
   extended community also are defined.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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--0000000000002441d0057e8bb60f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,

Two observations:

1.


The current draft extends exisiting SAFI 134 with new NLRI types.

That means that now we have new giant NLRI in SAFI 134.


Have any consideration been made to just define a new flow spec

SAFI instead for L2 filtering ? I am quite skeptical from implementation,

operational and deployment points of view to extend the existing SAFI and it

makes a gradual deployment a nightmare if not mission impossible.


Any change to NLRI format without signalling it with new capability is

far from good practice.


2.


The draft is pretty silent on adjusting validation procedures to make sure only

senders of the original L2 information may inject the L2 flow routes.


I would hope that this is basic omission and will be consider for addition into

next version of he draft.



Thx,

R.





On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:33 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : BGP Dissemination of L2VPN Flow Specification
> Rules
>         Authors         : Weiguo Hao
>                           Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd
>                           James Uttaro
>                           Stephane Litkowski
>                           Shunwan Zhuang
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09.txt
>         Pages           : 13
>         Date            : 2019-01-03
>
> Abstract:
>    This document defines a BGP flow-spec extension to disseminate L2 VPN
>    Ethernet traffic filtering rules.  SAFI=134 in [RFC5575] is redefined
>    for this purpose.  A new subset of component types and extended
>    community also are defined.  A new subset of component types and new
>    extended community also are defined.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>

--0000000000002441d0057e8bb60f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Hi,</font=
></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><d=
iv><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Two observations:=C2=A0</fon=
t></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><=
div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">1.=C2=A0<br></font></div><d=
iv><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white=
-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></spa=
n></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);=
white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The current=
 draft extends exisiting SAFI 134 with new NLRI types.=C2=A0</font></span><=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);whi=
te-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">That means tha=
t now we have new giant NLRI in SAFI 134.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre cla=
ss=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before=
:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:norm=
al"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pr=
e class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-b=
efore:page"><span style=3D"white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif">Have any consideration been made to just define a new flow =
spec=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-=
top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"white-space:nor=
mal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">SAFI instead for L2 filter=
ing ? I am quite skeptical=C2=A0from implementation,=C2=A0</font></span></p=
re><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"white-space:normal">operational=C2=A0</span>and deployment points of vi=
ew to extend the existing SAFI and it=C2=A0</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail=
-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><spa=
n style=3D"white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=
makes a gradual deployment a nightmare if not mission impossible.=C2=A0</fo=
nt></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin=
-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34=
,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br=
></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;m=
argin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:r=
gb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
">Any change to NLRI format without signalling it with new capability is=C2=
=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-ser=
if">far from good practice.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-ne=
wpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=
=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gma=
il-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">2.=C2=A0<br></fo=
nt></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)=
;white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font=
></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-b=
ottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,3=
4,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The d=
raft is pretty silent on adjusting validation procedures to make sure only=
=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-=
serif">senders of the original L2 information may inject the L2 flow routes=
.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans=
-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margi=
n-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"white-space:n=
ormal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I would hope that this i=
s basic omission=C2=A0and will be consider for addition into=C2=A0</font></=
span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bott=
om:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,3=
4);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">next ver=
sion of he draft.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" sty=
le=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial,=
 helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage=
" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"a=
rial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-ne=
wpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thx,<br></font></pre>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-sp=
ace:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">R.</font></span></p=
re><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white=
-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></spa=
n></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;break-before:page"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-n=
ewpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break=
-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:33 AM &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 BGP Dissemination of L2VPN Flow Specification Rules<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Weig=
uo Hao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 James Uttaro<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stephane Litkowski<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shunwan Zhuang<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 13<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2019-01-03<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a BGP flow-spec extension to disseminate=
 L2 VPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet traffic filtering rules.=C2=A0 SAFI=3D134 in [RFC5575=
] is redefined<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for this purpose.=C2=A0 A new subset of component types and ex=
tended<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0community also are defined.=C2=A0 A new subset of component ty=
pes and new<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extended community also are defined.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i=
dr-flowspec-l2vpn-09</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2=
vpn-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vp=
n-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url=
2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
I-D-Announce mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">I-D-Announce@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce=
</a><br>
Internet-Draft directories: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html</a><br>
or <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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Rob:

Hi!

I don=E2=80=99t think I said it before:  speaking as a WG participant...

I want to pick up on a point you make below, which I agree with: "any
topology discovery mechanism (whether used in real-time or not) needs to
define how it handles cases where it might end up with missing
information=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6.

BGP-LS only defines a mechanism through which it may miss information, but
not how to handle it =E2=80=94 or maybe it does (?): by using attribute dis=
card it
just accepts that the information might be missing going forward=E2=80=A6an=
d
doesn=E2=80=99t attempt to do anything.  Maybe this quote is true: "Doing N=
othing
Often Leads to the Very Best Something=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Winnie the Pooh

That action may be ok in the general case=E2=80=A6but I think that doing no=
thing
may not be enough/appropriate for an application like SR, because it is
explicitly calculating paths=E2=80=A6.


The point I=E2=80=99m trying to bring up is not necessarily treat-as-withdr=
aw vs.
attribute discard=E2=80=A6. But, first, is attribute discard
enough/appropriate/good for a BGP-LS application such as SR?  If it isn=E2=
=80=99t,
second, is there a different approach that would be better?  Maybe we then
come to a point where something can change=E2=80=A6or accept the limitation=
s of the
system and be clear about them.  I fully realize that I may be the only one
who thinks there=E2=80=99s an issue=E2=80=A6

Thanks!!

Alvaro.


On December 21, 2018 at 11:23:16 AM, Rob Shakir (robjs@google.com) wrote:

Alvaro,

I think this is one of the difficulties of overloading a protocol like BGP
with different datasets -- it's not simple to say how particular attributes
are actually going to be used within a protocol deployment. This was one of
the things that was noted in 7606 -- i.e., I can make *any* attribute
really affect forwarding if I write a policy that accepts/rejects some
UPDATE based on the presence of that attribute.

In general, any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in real-time or
not) needs to define how it handles cases where it might end up with
missing information. Let's consider what the different mechanisms for
discovery we have are today:

   - IGP listening -- in this case, if we have some malformed IS-IS TLV,
   then we might end up discarding this information (whether it be at the
   listening node, or a device that didn't flood it earlier in the chain) -=
-
   meaning that we know that we have some potential gap in the topology.
   - Streaming telemetry -- speaking particularly to gNMI for LSDB
   streaming encoded using the OpenConfig model, here, we are tolerant to
   getting as much information as can be parsed, and have a way to carry
   unknown TLVs (which might include those that cannot be successfully pars=
ed)
   as binary data to the external consumer. This means that the approach is
   "as complete data as possible", but has the same characteristic that we =
can
   also end up having the potential to lose data.
   - BGP-LS with attribute discard -- this has some information loss, since
   we'll have some attributes that could be malformed in the input data, an=
d
   we discard them at the receiver.

It doesn't seem to me that, given the source of the data is the IGP, and we
might have information discarded there -- that we can really guarantee
strong consistency of an off-box view of the network, since we can't
guarantee strong consistency across the IGP domain itself.

Thus, I'm not sure that the issue that is being highlighted here actually
makes a difference when we're considering the overall system design -- we
always need to deal with the fact that the view of the network at the path
computing node might not match exactly the network's current state in the
presence of malformed protocol messages. One motivation for having the LSDB
via streaming telemetry is the ability to provide such validation ("do all
nodes within my IGP domain, including listeners, have a consistent view of
the state of the network?").

If the discussion is "should we adopt treat-as-withdraw vs. attribute
discard?" -- I don't think that from the system perspective there is really
any difference between the two in this situation. We still have the same
potentially inconsistent view of the network.

For these reasons, I'd err on leaving this unchanged in the current
specification(s).

Cheers,
r.

--0000000000008f3614057e949b9e
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">Rob:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">I don=E2=80=99t think I said it before: =C2=A0speaking as a=
 WG participant...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">I want to pick up on a point you make below, which I agree with:=
 &quot;any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in real-time or not) =
needs to define how it handles cases where it might end up with missing inf=
ormation=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6. =C2=A0</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">BGP-LS only defines a mechanism through which it=
 may miss information, but not how to handle it =E2=80=94 or maybe it does =
(?): by using attribute discard it just accepts that the information might =
be missing going forward=E2=80=A6and doesn=E2=80=99t attempt to do anything=
.=C2=A0 Maybe this quote is true: &quot;Doing Nothing Often Leads to the Ve=
ry Best Something=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Winnie the Pooh</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">That action may be ok in the g=
eneral case=E2=80=A6but I think that doing nothing may not be enough/approp=
riate for an application like SR, because it is explicitly calculating path=
s=E2=80=A6. =C2=A0</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">The point I=E2=80=99m trying=
 to bring up is not necessarily treat-as-withdraw vs. attribute discard=E2=
=80=A6. But, first, is attribute discard enough/appropriate/good for a BGP-=
LS application such as SR?=C2=A0 If it isn=E2=80=99t, second, is there a di=
fferent approach that would be better?=C2=A0 Maybe we then come to a point =
where something can change=E2=80=A6or accept the limitations of the system =
and be clear about them.=C2=A0 I fully realize that I may be the only one w=
ho thinks there=E2=80=99s an issue=E2=80=A6</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Thanks!!</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Alvaro.</div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><br></div></div> <br><p class=
=3D"airmail_on">On December 21, 2018 at 11:23:16 AM, Rob Shakir (<a href=3D=
"mailto:robjs@google.com">robjs@google.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=
=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>


<title></title>


<div dir=3D"ltr">Alvaro,
<div><br></div>
<div>I think this is one of the difficulties of overloading a
protocol like BGP with different datasets -- it&#39;s not simple to say
how particular attributes are actually going to be used within a
protocol deployment. This was one of the things that was noted in
7606 -- i.e., I can make *any* attribute really affect forwarding
if I write a policy that accepts/rejects some UPDATE based on the
presence of that attribute.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In general, any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in
real-time or not) needs to define how it handles cases where it
might end up with missing information. Let&#39;s consider what the
different mechanisms for discovery we have are today:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D"2">IGP listening -- in this case, if we have some
malformed IS-IS TLV, then we might end up discarding this
information (whether it be at the listening node, or a device that
didn&#39;t flood it earlier in the chain) -- meaning that we know that
we have some potential gap in the topology.</font></li>
<li><font size=3D"2">Streaming telemetry -- speaking particularly to
gNMI for LSDB streaming encoded using the OpenConfig model, here,
we are tolerant to getting as much information as can be parsed,
and have a way to carry unknown TLVs (which might include those
that cannot be successfully parsed) as binary data to the external
consumer. This means that the approach is &quot;as complete data as
possible&quot;, but has the same characteristic that we can also end up
having the potential to lose data.</font></li>
<li><font size=3D"2">BGP-LS with attribute discard -- this has some
information loss, since we&#39;ll have some attributes that could be
malformed in the input data, and we discard them at the
receiver.</font></li>
</ul>
<div><font size=3D"2">It doesn&#39;t seem to me that, given the source of
the data is the IGP, and we might have information discarded there
-- that we can really guarantee strong consistency of an off-box
view of the network, since we can&#39;t guarantee strong consistency
across the IGP domain itself.=C2=A0</font></div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>
<div>Thus, I&#39;m not sure that the issue that is being highlighted
here actually makes a difference when we&#39;re considering the overall
system design -- we always need to deal with the fact that the view
of the network at the path computing node might not match exactly
the network&#39;s current state in the presence of malformed protocol
messages. One motivation for having the LSDB via streaming
telemetry is the ability to provide such validation (&quot;do all nodes
within my IGP domain, including listeners, have a consistent view
of the state of the network?&quot;).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If the discussion is &quot;should we adopt treat-as-withdraw vs.
attribute discard?&quot; -- I don&#39;t think that from the system
perspective there is really any difference between the two in this
situation. We still have the same potentially inconsistent view of
the network.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>For these reasons, I&#39;d err on leaving this unchanged in the
current specification(s).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>r.</div>
</div></div></div></span></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div>=
</body></html>

--0000000000008f3614057e949b9e--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 23:22:41 +0100
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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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--0000000000000affd7057e9534a8
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Hi Alvaro,

> BGP-LS only defines a mechanism through which it may miss information,
but not how to handle it

I think the point at least some of us are trying to indicate is that the
overall application is responsible for building into it proper redundancy.

BGP-LS reg error handling is not worse then BGP IPv4 or IPv6 routing - do
you agree ? If so unreachability should be handled end to end say by dual
homing, falling back from SR paths to "native IP path" etc ...

In my view SR controller is mainly used as optimization not as critical
element - well at least in the deployment models I would personally
recommend to use.

Regards,
R.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:40 PM Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Rob:
>
> Hi!
>
> I don=E2=80=99t think I said it before:  speaking as a WG participant...
>
> I want to pick up on a point you make below, which I agree with: "any
> topology discovery mechanism (whether used in real-time or not) needs to
> define how it handles cases where it might end up with missing
> information=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6.
>
> BGP-LS only defines a mechanism through which it may miss information, bu=
t
> not how to handle it =E2=80=94 or maybe it does (?): by using attribute d=
iscard it
> just accepts that the information might be missing going forward=E2=80=A6=
and
> doesn=E2=80=99t attempt to do anything..  Maybe this quote is true: "Doin=
g Nothing
> Often Leads to the Very Best Something=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Winnie the Pooh
>
> That action may be ok in the general case=E2=80=A6but I think that doing =
nothing
> may not be enough/appropriate for an application like SR, because it is
> explicitly calculating paths=E2=80=A6.
>
>
> The point I=E2=80=99m trying to bring up is not necessarily treat-as-with=
draw vs.
> attribute discard=E2=80=A6. But, first, is attribute discard
> enough/appropriate/good for a BGP-LS application such as SR?  If it isn=
=E2=80=99t,
> second, is there a different approach that would be better?  Maybe we the=
n
> come to a point where something can change=E2=80=A6or accept the limitati=
ons of the
> system and be clear about them.  I fully realize that I may be the only o=
ne
> who thinks there=E2=80=99s an issue=E2=80=A6
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Alvaro.
>
>
> On December 21, 2018 at 11:23:16 AM, Rob Shakir (robjs@google.com) wrote:
>
> Alvaro,
>
> I think this is one of the difficulties of overloading a protocol like BG=
P
> with different datasets -- it's not simple to say how particular attribut=
es
> are actually going to be used within a protocol deployment. This was one =
of
> the things that was noted in 7606 -- i.e., I can make *any* attribute
> really affect forwarding if I write a policy that accepts/rejects some
> UPDATE based on the presence of that attribute.
>
> In general, any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in real-time o=
r
> not) needs to define how it handles cases where it might end up with
> missing information. Let's consider what the different mechanisms for
> discovery we have are today:
>
>    - IGP listening -- in this case, if we have some malformed IS-IS TLV,
>    then we might end up discarding this information (whether it be at the
>    listening node, or a device that didn't flood it earlier in the chain)=
 --
>    meaning that we know that we have some potential gap in the topology.
>    - Streaming telemetry -- speaking particularly to gNMI for LSDB
>    streaming encoded using the OpenConfig model, here, we are tolerant to
>    getting as much information as can be parsed, and have a way to carry
>    unknown TLVs (which might include those that cannot be successfully pa=
rsed)
>    as binary data to the external consumer. This means that the approach =
is
>    "as complete data as possible", but has the same characteristic that w=
e can
>    also end up having the potential to lose data.
>    - BGP-LS with attribute discard -- this has some information loss,
>    since we'll have some attributes that could be malformed in the input =
data,
>    and we discard them at the receiver.
>
> It doesn't seem to me that, given the source of the data is the IGP, and
> we might have information discarded there -- that we can really guarantee
> strong consistency of an off-box view of the network, since we can't
> guarantee strong consistency across the IGP domain itself.
>
> Thus, I'm not sure that the issue that is being highlighted here actually
> makes a difference when we're considering the overall system design -- we
> always need to deal with the fact that the view of the network at the pat=
h
> computing node might not match exactly the network's current state in the
> presence of malformed protocol messages. One motivation for having the LS=
DB
> via streaming telemetry is the ability to provide such validation ("do al=
l
> nodes within my IGP domain, including listeners, have a consistent view o=
f
> the state of the network?").
>
> If the discussion is "should we adopt treat-as-withdraw vs. attribute
> discard?" -- I don't think that from the system perspective there is real=
ly
> any difference between the two in this situation. We still have the same
> potentially inconsistent view of the network.
>
> For these reasons, I'd err on leaving this unchanged in the current
> specification(s).
>
> Cheers,
> r.
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

--0000000000000affd7057e9534a8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Alvaro,<div><br></div><div>&gt; BGP-LS only defines a m=
echanism through which it may miss information, but not how to handle it=C2=
=A0=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think the point at least some of u=
s are trying to indicate is that the overall application is responsible for=
 building into it proper redundancy.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>BGP-LS =
reg error handling is not worse then BGP IPv4 or IPv6 routing - do you agre=
e ? If so unreachability should be handled end to end say by dual homing, f=
alling back from SR paths to &quot;native IP path&quot; etc ...=C2=A0</div>=
<div><br></div><div>In my view SR controller is mainly used as optimization=
 not as critical element - well at least in the deployment models I would p=
ersonally recommend to use.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,<br>R.</=
div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On=
 Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:40 PM Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana.i=
etf@gmail.com">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-wor=
d;"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">Rob:</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Hi!</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">I don=E2=80=99t think I sa=
id it before: =C2=A0speaking as a WG participant...</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">I want to pick up on a point yo=
u make below, which I agree with: &quot;any topology discovery mechanism (w=
hether used in real-time or not) needs to define how it handles cases where=
 it might end up with missing information=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6. =C2=A0</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">BGP-LS only def=
ines a mechanism through which it may miss information, but not how to hand=
le it =E2=80=94 or maybe it does (?): by using attribute discard it just ac=
cepts that the information might be missing going forward=E2=80=A6and doesn=
=E2=80=99t attempt to do anything..=C2=A0 Maybe this quote is true: &quot;D=
oing Nothing Often Leads to the Very Best Something=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Winn=
ie the Pooh</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">That action may be ok in the general case=E2=80=A6but I think that doin=
g nothing may not be enough/appropriate for an application like SR, because=
 it is explicitly calculating paths=E2=80=A6. =C2=A0</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">The point I=E2=80=99m trying to bring up is not necessarily treat-as-=
withdraw vs. attribute discard=E2=80=A6. But, first, is attribute discard e=
nough/appropriate/good for a BGP-LS application such as SR?=C2=A0 If it isn=
=E2=80=99t, second, is there a different approach that would be better?=C2=
=A0 Maybe we then come to a point where something can change=E2=80=A6or acc=
ept the limitations of the system and be clear about them.=C2=A0 I fully re=
alize that I may be the only one who thinks there=E2=80=99s an issue=E2=80=
=A6</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Than=
ks!!</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Alv=
aro.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;margin:0=
px"><br></div></div> <br><p class=3D"gmail-m_6254060992032228250airmail_on"=
>On December 21, 2018 at 11:23:16 AM, Rob Shakir (<a href=3D"mailto:robjs@g=
oogle.com" target=3D"_blank">robjs@google.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_6254060992032228250clean_bq"><span><div><div>=
</div><div>





<div dir=3D"ltr">Alvaro,
<div><br></div>
<div>I think this is one of the difficulties of overloading a
protocol like BGP with different datasets -- it&#39;s not simple to say
how particular attributes are actually going to be used within a
protocol deployment. This was one of the things that was noted in
7606 -- i.e., I can make *any* attribute really affect forwarding
if I write a policy that accepts/rejects some UPDATE based on the
presence of that attribute.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In general, any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in
real-time or not) needs to define how it handles cases where it
might end up with missing information. Let&#39;s consider what the
different mechanisms for discovery we have are today:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D"2">IGP listening -- in this case, if we have some
malformed IS-IS TLV, then we might end up discarding this
information (whether it be at the listening node, or a device that
didn&#39;t flood it earlier in the chain) -- meaning that we know that
we have some potential gap in the topology.</font></li>
<li><font size=3D"2">Streaming telemetry -- speaking particularly to
gNMI for LSDB streaming encoded using the OpenConfig model, here,
we are tolerant to getting as much information as can be parsed,
and have a way to carry unknown TLVs (which might include those
that cannot be successfully parsed) as binary data to the external
consumer. This means that the approach is &quot;as complete data as
possible&quot;, but has the same characteristic that we can also end up
having the potential to lose data.</font></li>
<li><font size=3D"2">BGP-LS with attribute discard -- this has some
information loss, since we&#39;ll have some attributes that could be
malformed in the input data, and we discard them at the
receiver.</font></li>
</ul>
<div><font size=3D"2">It doesn&#39;t seem to me that, given the source of
the data is the IGP, and we might have information discarded there
-- that we can really guarantee strong consistency of an off-box
view of the network, since we can&#39;t guarantee strong consistency
across the IGP domain itself.=C2=A0</font></div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>
<div>Thus, I&#39;m not sure that the issue that is being highlighted
here actually makes a difference when we&#39;re considering the overall
system design -- we always need to deal with the fact that the view
of the network at the path computing node might not match exactly
the network&#39;s current state in the presence of malformed protocol
messages. One motivation for having the LSDB via streaming
telemetry is the ability to provide such validation (&quot;do all nodes
within my IGP domain, including listeners, have a consistent view
of the state of the network?&quot;).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If the discussion is &quot;should we adopt treat-as-withdraw vs.
attribute discard?&quot; -- I don&#39;t think that from the system
perspective there is really any difference between the two in this
situation. We still have the same potentially inconsistent view of
the network.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>For these reasons, I&#39;d err on leaving this unchanged in the
current specification(s).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>r.</div>
</div></div></div></span></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail-m_625406099203222=
8250gmail_signature"></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 14:40:10 -0800
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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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Hi Alvaro,

Also speaking as a WG participant :-)

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 1:40 PM Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> BGP-LS only defines a mechanism through which it may miss information, bu=
t
> not how to handle it =E2=80=94 or maybe it does (?): by using attribute d=
iscard it
> just accepts that the information might be missing going forward=E2=80=A6=
and
> doesn=E2=80=99t attempt to do anything.  Maybe this quote is true: "Doing=
 Nothing
> Often Leads to the Very Best Something=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Winnie the Pooh
>

I think that it defines *something*, albeit not explicitly. Essentially, as
I read it, we're saying "when an attribute encoded by the advertising
BGP-LS source is incorrect, then BGP-LS as a system will prefer to use
partial information" (partial information, since we assume that some
information does get through, since the NLRI could be parsed).

That action may be ok in the general case=E2=80=A6but I think that doing no=
thing
> may not be enough/appropriate for an application like SR, because it is
> explicitly calculating paths=E2=80=A6.
>

> The point I=E2=80=99m trying to bring up is not necessarily treat-as-with=
draw vs.
> attribute discard=E2=80=A6. But, first, is attribute discard
> enough/appropriate/good for a BGP-LS application such as SR?  If it isn=
=E2=80=99t,
> second, is there a different approach that would be better?  Maybe we the=
n
> come to a point where something can change=E2=80=A6or accept the limitati=
ons of the
> system and be clear about them.  I fully realize that I may be the only o=
ne
> who thinks there=E2=80=99s an issue=E2=80=A6
>

My point was really the same... The question I was trying to raise is "what
is the alternative that you would suggest?". Other technologies that
fulfill the same role as BGP-LS (those that I described) don't take a very
different approach.

Clearly, it's bad to calculate paths with incomplete information about the
topology of the network. It's also bad to calculate zero paths because you
discarded the entire topology based on an error. We're in-between a rock
and a hard place in terms of maintaining system functionality here -- all
systems that do the same as BGP-LS are having to make some form of
compromise about which constraint (correctness, or connectivity) they are
violating.

This is why I was arguing for leaving things unchanged -- the correctness
constraint seems OK to violate by default. If there are deployments where
connectivity is the desirable constraint to violate, then reacting to the
fact that attribute-discard did occur is possible (or not configuring 7606
error handling if the implementation supports this).

Describing these compromises is, of course, a good idea. However, it's not
clear where this description would go -- we don't really have a document
that describes this overall system and how it might be implemented today.

Cheers and HNY!
r.



>
> Thanks!!
>
> Alvaro.
>
>
> On December 21, 2018 at 11:23:16 AM, Rob Shakir (robjs@google.com) wrote:
>
> Alvaro,
>
> I think this is one of the difficulties of overloading a protocol like BG=
P
> with different datasets -- it's not simple to say how particular attribut=
es
> are actually going to be used within a protocol deployment. This was one =
of
> the things that was noted in 7606 -- i.e., I can make *any* attribute
> really affect forwarding if I write a policy that accepts/rejects some
> UPDATE based on the presence of that attribute.
>
> In general, any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in real-time o=
r
> not) needs to define how it handles cases where it might end up with
> missing information. Let's consider what the different mechanisms for
> discovery we have are today:
>
>    - IGP listening -- in this case, if we have some malformed IS-IS TLV,
>    then we might end up discarding this information (whether it be at the
>    listening node, or a device that didn't flood it earlier in the chain)=
 --
>    meaning that we know that we have some potential gap in the topology.
>    - Streaming telemetry -- speaking particularly to gNMI for LSDB
>    streaming encoded using the OpenConfig model, here, we are tolerant to
>    getting as much information as can be parsed, and have a way to carry
>    unknown TLVs (which might include those that cannot be successfully pa=
rsed)
>    as binary data to the external consumer. This means that the approach =
is
>    "as complete data as possible", but has the same characteristic that w=
e can
>    also end up having the potential to lose data.
>    - BGP-LS with attribute discard -- this has some information loss,
>    since we'll have some attributes that could be malformed in the input =
data,
>    and we discard them at the receiver.
>
> It doesn't seem to me that, given the source of the data is the IGP, and
> we might have information discarded there -- that we can really guarantee
> strong consistency of an off-box view of the network, since we can't
> guarantee strong consistency across the IGP domain itself.
>
> Thus, I'm not sure that the issue that is being highlighted here actually
> makes a difference when we're considering the overall system design -- we
> always need to deal with the fact that the view of the network at the pat=
h
> computing node might not match exactly the network's current state in the
> presence of malformed protocol messages. One motivation for having the LS=
DB
> via streaming telemetry is the ability to provide such validation ("do al=
l
> nodes within my IGP domain, including listeners, have a consistent view o=
f
> the state of the network?").
>
> If the discussion is "should we adopt treat-as-withdraw vs. attribute
> discard?" -- I don't think that from the system perspective there is real=
ly
> any difference between the two in this situation. We still have the same
> potentially inconsistent view of the network.
>
> For these reasons, I'd err on leaving this unchanged in the current
> specification(s).
>
> Cheers,
> r.
>
>

--000000000000a559fe057e957229
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Alvaro,<div><br></div><div>Also speaking as a WG partic=
ipant :-)<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Jan 3,=
 2019 at 1:40 PM Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com=
">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">BGP-LS only defines a mechanism through which it may miss=
 information, but not how to handle it =E2=80=94 or maybe it does (?): by u=
sing attribute discard it just accepts that the information might be missin=
g going forward=E2=80=A6and doesn=E2=80=99t attempt to do anything.=C2=A0 M=
aybe this quote is true: &quot;Doing Nothing Often Leads to the Very Best S=
omething=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Winnie the Pooh<br></div></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>I think that it defines *something*, albeit not expl=
icitly. Essentially, as I read it, we&#39;re saying &quot;when an attribute=
 encoded by the advertising BGP-LS source is incorrect, then BGP-LS as a sy=
stem will prefer to use partial information&quot; (partial information, sin=
ce we assume that some information does get through, since the NLRI could b=
e parsed).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D=
"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
That action may be ok in the general case=E2=80=A6but I think that doing no=
thing may not be enough/appropriate for an application like SR, because it =
is explicitly calculating paths=E2=80=A6.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div></div></div></b=
lockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word=
"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">The point I=E2=80=99m trying to bring up is not necessarily=
 treat-as-withdraw vs. attribute discard=E2=80=A6. But, first, is attribute=
 discard enough/appropriate/good for a BGP-LS application such as SR?=C2=A0=
 If it isn=E2=80=99t, second, is there a different approach that would be b=
etter?=C2=A0 Maybe we then come to a point where something can change=E2=80=
=A6or accept the limitations of the system and be clear about them.=C2=A0 I=
 fully realize that I may be the only one who thinks there=E2=80=99s an iss=
ue=E2=80=A6</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>My point was =
really the same... The question I was trying to raise is &quot;what is the =
alternative that you would suggest?&quot;. Other technologies that fulfill =
the same role as BGP-LS (those that I described) don&#39;t take a very diff=
erent approach.</div><div><br></div><div>Clearly, it&#39;s bad to calculate=
 paths with incomplete information about the topology of the network. It&#3=
9;s also bad to calculate zero paths because you discarded the entire topol=
ogy based on an error. We&#39;re in-between a rock and a hard place in term=
s of maintaining system functionality here -- all systems that do the same =
as BGP-LS are having to make some form of compromise about which constraint=
 (correctness, or connectivity) they are violating.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>This is why I was arguing for leaving things unchanged -- the correctness=
 constraint seems OK to violate by default. If there are deployments where =
connectivity is the desirable constraint to violate, then reacting to the f=
act that attribute-discard did occur is possible (or not configuring 7606 e=
rror handling if the implementation supports this).</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Describing these compromises is, of course, a good idea. However, it&#39;=
s not clear where this description would go -- we don&#39;t really have a d=
ocument that describes this overall system and how it might be implemented =
today.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers and HNY!</div><div>r.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"w=
ord-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><b=
r></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Thanks!!</div></div></div><div style=3D"w=
ord-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><b=
r></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Alvaro.</div><div style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><br></div></div></div><div style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> <br><p class=3D"m_-4268217754323093862airmail_on=
">On December 21, 2018 at 11:23:16 AM, Rob Shakir (<a href=3D"mailto:robjs@=
google.com" target=3D"_blank">robjs@google.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"m_-4268217754323093862clean_bq"><span><div><div></di=
v><div>





<div dir=3D"ltr">Alvaro,
<div><br></div>
<div>I think this is one of the difficulties of overloading a
protocol like BGP with different datasets -- it&#39;s not simple to say
how particular attributes are actually going to be used within a
protocol deployment. This was one of the things that was noted in
7606 -- i.e., I can make *any* attribute really affect forwarding
if I write a policy that accepts/rejects some UPDATE based on the
presence of that attribute.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In general, any topology discovery mechanism (whether used in
real-time or not) needs to define how it handles cases where it
might end up with missing information. Let&#39;s consider what the
different mechanisms for discovery we have are today:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D"2">IGP listening -- in this case, if we have some
malformed IS-IS TLV, then we might end up discarding this
information (whether it be at the listening node, or a device that
didn&#39;t flood it earlier in the chain) -- meaning that we know that
we have some potential gap in the topology.</font></li>
<li><font size=3D"2">Streaming telemetry -- speaking particularly to
gNMI for LSDB streaming encoded using the OpenConfig model, here,
we are tolerant to getting as much information as can be parsed,
and have a way to carry unknown TLVs (which might include those
that cannot be successfully parsed) as binary data to the external
consumer. This means that the approach is &quot;as complete data as
possible&quot;, but has the same characteristic that we can also end up
having the potential to lose data.</font></li>
<li><font size=3D"2">BGP-LS with attribute discard -- this has some
information loss, since we&#39;ll have some attributes that could be
malformed in the input data, and we discard them at the
receiver.</font></li>
</ul>
<div><font size=3D"2">It doesn&#39;t seem to me that, given the source of
the data is the IGP, and we might have information discarded there
-- that we can really guarantee strong consistency of an off-box
view of the network, since we can&#39;t guarantee strong consistency
across the IGP domain itself.=C2=A0</font></div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>
<div>Thus, I&#39;m not sure that the issue that is being highlighted
here actually makes a difference when we&#39;re considering the overall
system design -- we always need to deal with the fact that the view
of the network at the path computing node might not match exactly
the network&#39;s current state in the presence of malformed protocol
messages. One motivation for having the LSDB via streaming
telemetry is the ability to provide such validation (&quot;do all nodes
within my IGP domain, including listeners, have a consistent view
of the state of the network?&quot;).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If the discussion is &quot;should we adopt treat-as-withdraw vs.
attribute discard?&quot; -- I don&#39;t think that from the system
perspective there is really any difference between the two in this
situation. We still have the same potentially inconsistent view of
the network.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>For these reasons, I&#39;d err on leaving this unchanged in the
current specification(s).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>r.</div>
</div></div></div></span></blockquote><div class=3D"m_-4268217754323093862g=
mail_signature"></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>

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Very good point! :-)

On January 3, 2019 at 5:22:52 PM, Robert Raszuk (robert@raszuk.net) wrote:

In my view SR controller is mainly used as optimization not as critical
element - well at least in the deployment models I would personally
recommend to use.

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">Very good point! :-)</div> <br><p class=3D"airma=
il_on">On January 3, 2019 at 5:22:52 PM, Robert Raszuk (<a href=3D"mailto:r=
obert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cit=
e" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-famil=
y:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">In m=
y view SR controller is mainly used as optimization not as critical element=
 - well at least in the deployment models I would personally recommend to u=
se.=C2=A0</span></div></span></blockquote> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"><=
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On January 3, 2019 at 5:40:23 PM, Rob Shakir (robjs@google.com) wrote:

Describing these compromises is, of course, a good idea. However, it's not
clear where this description would go -- we don't really have a document
that describes this overall system and how it might be implemented today
<http://airmail.calendar/2019-01-04 12:00:00 EST>.


Right=E2=80=A6

I started reviewing the documents with BGP-LS extensions for SR=E2=80=A6sta=
rting
with draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext, which is the first BGP-LS
extensions document to be sent for Publication where the application is
explicitly to "construct the end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs)
that need to be applied to an incoming packet to achieve the desired
end-to-end forwarding=E2=80=9D.  All other BGP-LS extension documents have =
in
general followed the =E2=80=9Cinformative=E2=80=9D tone of rfc7752.

I don=E2=80=99t necessarily think that the description of the system belong=
s
there=E2=80=A6but there=E2=80=99s no other place to put it, at least not cu=
rrently.  The SR
Problem Statement (rfc7855) and the SR Architecture (rfc8402) both just
make general statements about the need to support centralized and hybrid
(and distributed, of course) control planes =E2=80=94 they don=E2=80=99t go=
 into more
specifics=E2=80=A6

=E2=80=A6

Alvaro.

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font=
 face=3D"Helvetica">On January 3, 2019 at 5:40:23 PM, Rob Shakir (<a href=
=3D"mailto:robjs@google.com">robjs@google.com</a>) wrote:</font></div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div> <blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><font face=3D"Helvetica"><span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;t=
ext-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word=
-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!im=
portant">Describing these compromises is, of course, a good idea. However, =
it&#39;s not clear where this description would go -- we don&#39;t really h=
ave a document that describes this overall system and how it might be imple=
mented<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"=
http://airmail.calendar/2019-01-04 12:00:00 EST" style=3D"word-wrap:break-w=
ord;word-break:break-word;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;te=
xt-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-=
spacing:0px">today</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:nor=
mal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:n=
one;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);f=
loat:none;display:inline!important">.=C2=A0</span></font></div></span></blo=
ckquote> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature=
"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">=
<font face=3D"Helvetica">Right=E2=80=A6</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_signa=
ture"><font face=3D"Helvetica">I started reviewing the documents with BGP-L=
S extensions for SR=E2=80=A6starting with draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-rou=
ting-ext, which is the first BGP-LS extensions document to be sent for Publ=
ication where the application is explicitly to &quot;construct the end-to-e=
nd path (with its associated SIDs) that need to be applied to an incoming p=
acket to achieve the desired end-to-end forwarding=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 All othe=
r BGP-LS extension documents have in general followed the =E2=80=9Cinformat=
ive=E2=80=9D tone of rfc7752.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><f=
ont face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><fon=
t face=3D"Helvetica">I don=E2=80=99t necessarily think that the description=
 of the system belongs there=E2=80=A6but there=E2=80=99s no other place to =
put it, at least not currently.=C2=A0 The SR Problem Statement (rfc7855) an=
d the SR Architecture (rfc8402) both just make general statements about the=
 need to support centralized and hybrid (and distributed, of course) contro=
l planes =E2=80=94 they don=E2=80=99t go into more specifics=E2=80=A6</font=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica">=E2=80=A6</fon=
t></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.</font=
></div></body></html>

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From: Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:48:25 -0800
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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <rraszuk@gmail.com>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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The alternative approach is to have an "Operational Considerations" section
of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext that simply points out this
consideration. i.e., something like:

"Since the error handling approach defined in RFC7752 specifies 'attribute
discard' as the error handling mechanism for BGP-LS, systems implemented
using BGP-LS for discovery of topological attributes used for path
calculation MUST consider their mode of operation based on incomplete data
being received (due to attribute discard). If an assumption of strong
consistency between the BGP-LS receiver, and the network's topology is
made, system designers and operators SHOULD consider means to detect
erroneous attributes being discarded on a session and act accordingly."

Taking this approach doesn't say "hey, let's change this", and also doesn't
say "here's what the system should do", it just makes sure designers and
operators are aware of the consideration. That said, this is rather
implementation specific.

r.

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:39 AM Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On January 3, 2019 at 5:40:23 PM, Rob Shakir (robjs@google.com) wrote:
>
> Describing these compromises is, of course, a good idea. However, it's no=
t
> clear where this description would go -- we don't really have a document
> that describes this overall system and how it might be implemented today
> <http://airmail.calendar/2019-01-04%2012:00:00%20EST>.
>
>
> Right=E2=80=A6
>
> I started reviewing the documents with BGP-LS extensions for SR=E2=80=A6s=
tarting
> with draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext, which is the first BGP-LS
> extensions document to be sent for Publication where the application is
> explicitly to "construct the end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs)
> that need to be applied to an incoming packet to achieve the desired
> end-to-end forwarding=E2=80=9D.  All other BGP-LS extension documents hav=
e in
> general followed the =E2=80=9Cinformative=E2=80=9D tone of rfc7752.
>
> I don=E2=80=99t necessarily think that the description of the system belo=
ngs
> there=E2=80=A6but there=E2=80=99s no other place to put it, at least not =
currently.  The SR
> Problem Statement (rfc7855) and the SR Architecture (rfc8402) both just
> make general statements about the need to support centralized and hybrid
> (and distributed, of course) control planes =E2=80=94 they don=E2=80=99t =
go into more
> specifics=E2=80=A6
>
> =E2=80=A6
>
> Alvaro.
>

--000000000000d7934e057ea800fb
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<div dir=3D"ltr">The alternative approach is to have an &quot;Operational C=
onsiderations&quot; section of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext th=
at simply points out this consideration. i.e., something like:<div><br></di=
v><div>&quot;Since the error handling approach defined in RFC7752 specifies=
 &#39;attribute discard&#39; as the error handling mechanism for BGP-LS, sy=
stems implemented using BGP-LS for discovery of topological attributes used=
 for path calculation MUST consider their mode of operation based on incomp=
lete data being received (due to attribute discard). If an assumption of st=
rong consistency between the BGP-LS receiver, and the network&#39;s topolog=
y is made, system designers and operators SHOULD consider means to detect e=
rroneous attributes being discarded on a session and act accordingly.&quot;=
</div><div><br></div><div>Taking this approach doesn&#39;t say &quot;hey, l=
et&#39;s change this&quot;, and also doesn&#39;t say &quot;here&#39;s what =
the system should do&quot;, it just makes sure designers and operators are =
aware of the consideration. That said, this is rather implementation specif=
ic.</div><div><br></div><div>r.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:39 AM Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><=
div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">On January 3, 2019 at 5:4=
0:23 PM, Rob Shakir (<a href=3D"mailto:robjs@google.com" target=3D"_blank">=
robjs@google.com</a>) wrote:</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font fa=
ce=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"m_-27=
40828743372209802clean_bq"><span><div><font face=3D"Helvetica"><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spaci=
ng:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!importan=
t">Describing these compromises is, of course, a good idea. However, it&#39=
;s not clear where this description would go -- we don&#39;t really have a =
document that describes this overall system and how it might be implemented=
<span class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></=
span><a href=3D"http://airmail.calendar/2019-01-04%2012:00:00%20EST" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word;word-break:break-word;font-variant-caps:normal;let=
ter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;whi=
te-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target=3D"_blank">today</a><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align=
:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:=
0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">=
.=C2=A0</span></font></div></span></blockquote> <div class=3D"m_-2740828743=
372209802gmail_signature"></div><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_s=
ignature"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div></div><div style=3D"wor=
d-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_signature"><fo=
nt face=3D"Helvetica">Right=E2=80=A6</font></div><div class=3D"m_-274082874=
3372209802gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div c=
lass=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica">I s=
tarted reviewing the documents with BGP-LS extensions for SR=E2=80=A6starti=
ng with draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext, which is the first BGP-L=
S extensions document to be sent for Publication where the application is e=
xplicitly to &quot;construct the end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs)=
 that need to be applied to an incoming packet to achieve the desired end-t=
o-end forwarding=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 All other BGP-LS extension documents have =
in general followed the =E2=80=9Cinformative=E2=80=9D tone of rfc7752.</fon=
t></div><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_signature"><font face=3D"=
Helvetica"><br></font></div><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_signa=
ture"><font face=3D"Helvetica">I don=E2=80=99t necessarily think that the d=
escription of the system belongs there=E2=80=A6but there=E2=80=99s no other=
 place to put it, at least not currently.=C2=A0 The SR Problem Statement (r=
fc7855) and the SR Architecture (rfc8402) both just make general statements=
 about the need to support centralized and hybrid (and distributed, of cour=
se) control planes =E2=80=94 they don=E2=80=99t go into more specifics=E2=
=80=A6</font></div><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_signature"><fo=
nt face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802=
gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica">=E2=80=A6</font></div></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_-2740828743372209802gmail_si=
gnature"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div class=3D"m_-2740828=
743372209802gmail_signature"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.</font></div><=
/div></blockquote></div>

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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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On January 4, 2019 at 3:48:38 PM, Rob Shakir (robjs@google.com) wrote:

The alternative approach is to have an "Operational Considerations" section
of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext that simply points out this
consideration. i.e., something like:

We would need something like it in every bgp-ls-sr draft=E2=80=A6or a point=
er back
to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext...

"Since the error handling approach defined in RFC7752 specifies 'attribute
discard' as the error handling mechanism for BGP-LS, systems implemented
using BGP-LS for discovery of topological attributes used for path
calculation MUST consider their mode of operation based on incomplete data
being received (due to attribute discard). If an assumption of strong
consistency between the BGP-LS receiver, and the network's topology is
made, system designers and operators SHOULD consider means to detect
erroneous attributes being discarded on a session and act accordingly."


Taking this approach doesn't say "hey, let's change this", and also doesn't
say "here's what the system should do", it just makes sure designers and
operators are aware of the consideration. That said, this is rather
implementation specific.


[This is probably not the right place to wordsmith, but I don=E2=80=99t kno=
w how
=E2=80=9CMUST/SHOULD consider=E2=80=9D can be normatively enforced.]

Because it is implementation/deployment specific, some examples of the
cases where there could be more (or less) potential issues would be ideal.
As Robert=E2=80=99s example: "In my view SR controller is mainly used as
optimization not as critical element - well at least in the deployment
models I would personally recommend to use.=E2=80=9D

This last part could end up making the document significantly longer=E2=80=
=A6and it
doesn=E2=80=99t really give me a warm fuzzy feeling adding it after WGLC=E2=
=80=A6to an idr
document...and without it being properly reviewed by the spring WG.  But
these are details we can take care of as we move forward [*].

Thanks!

Alvaro.

[*] I haven=E2=80=99t finished my AD Review
of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.

--000000000000d7a3ae057ea91401
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">On January 4, 2019 at 3:48:38 PM, Rob Shakir (<a=
 href=3D"mailto:robjs@google.com">robjs@google.com</a>) wrote:</div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div> <div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;f=
ont-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none=
;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0=
,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-st=
yle:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norma=
l;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;w=
ord-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline=
!important">The alternative approach is to have an &quot;Operational Consid=
erations&quot; section of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext that si=
mply points out this consideration. i.e., something like:</span></div></spa=
n></blockquote></div><p>We would need something like it in every bgp-ls-sr =
draft=E2=80=A6or a pointer back to=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:&#39;hel=
vetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-ro=
uting-ext...</span></p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_b=
q" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;fo=
nt-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:=
start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0=
px"><span><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#3=
9;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font=
-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-=
transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">&quot;Since the error h=
andling approach defined in RFC7752 specifies &#39;attribute discard&#39; a=
s the error handling mechanism for BGP-LS, systems implemented using BGP-LS=
 for discovery of topological attributes used for path calculation MUST con=
sider their mode of operation based on incomplete data being received (due =
to attribute discard). If an assumption of strong consistency between the B=
GP-LS receiver, and the network&#39;s topology is made, system designers an=
d operators SHOULD consider means to detect erroneous attributes being disc=
arded on a session and act accordingly.&quot;</div></span></blockquote></di=
v><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fon=
t-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text=
-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14p=
x;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spac=
ing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space=
:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fam=
ily:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;fon=
t-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x">Taking this approach doesn&#39;t say &quot;hey, let&#39;s change this&qu=
ot;, and also doesn&#39;t say &quot;here&#39;s what the system should do&qu=
ot;, it just makes sure designers and operators are aware of the considerat=
ion. That said, this is rather implementation specific.</div></span></block=
quote><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div>[This is probably =
not the right place to wordsmith, but I don=E2=80=99t know how =E2=80=9CMUS=
T/SHOULD consider=E2=80=9D can be normatively enforced.]</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Because it is implementation/deployment specific, some examples of t=
he cases where there could be more (or less) potential issues would be idea=
l.=C2=A0 As Robert=E2=80=99s example: &quot;In my view SR controller is mai=
nly used as optimization not as critical element - well at least in the dep=
loyment models I would personally recommend to use.=E2=80=9D</div><div><br>=
</div><div>This last part could end up making the document significantly lo=
nger=E2=80=A6and it doesn=E2=80=99t really give me a warm fuzzy feeling add=
ing it after WGLC=E2=80=A6to an idr document...and without it being properl=
y reviewed by the spring WG.=C2=A0 But these are details we can take care o=
f as we move forward [*].</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></=
div><div>Alvaro.</div><div><br></div><div>[*] I haven=E2=80=99t finished my=
 AD Review of=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.</div><br clas=
s=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div=
></body></html>

--000000000000d7a3ae057ea91401--


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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09.txt
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+1

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 03:04 Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Two observations:
>
> 1.
>
>
> The current draft extends exisiting SAFI 134 with new NLRI types.
>
> That means that now we have new giant NLRI in SAFI 134.
>
>
> Have any consideration been made to just define a new flow spec
>
> SAFI instead for L2 filtering ? I am quite skeptical from implementation,
>
> operational and deployment points of view to extend the existing SAFI and it
>
> makes a gradual deployment a nightmare if not mission impossible.
>
>
> Any change to NLRI format without signalling it with new capability is
>
> far from good practice.
>
>
> 2.
>
>
> The draft is pretty silent on adjusting validation procedures to make sure only
>
> senders of the original L2 information may inject the L2 flow routes..
>
>
> I would hope that this is basic omission and will be consider for addition into
>
> next version of he draft.
>
>
>
> Thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:33 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>>
>>         Title           : BGP Dissemination of L2VPN Flow Specification
>> Rules
>>         Authors         : Weiguo Hao
>>                           Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd
>>                           James Uttaro
>>                           Stephane Litkowski
>>                           Shunwan Zhuang
>>         Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09.txt
>>         Pages           : 13
>>         Date            : 2019-01-03
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    This document defines a BGP flow-spec extension to disseminate L2 VPN
>>    Ethernet traffic filtering rules.  SAFI=134 in [RFC5575] is redefined
>>    for this purpose.  A new subset of component types and extended
>>    community also are defined.  A new subset of component types and new
>>    extended community also are defined.
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/
>>
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
> I-D-Announce mailing list
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>

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<div><div dir=3D"auto">+1</div></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 03:04 Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif">Hi,</font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-seri=
f"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Two ob=
servations:=C2=A0</font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-ser=
if"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">1.=C2=
=A0<br></font></div><div><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage"=
 style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,=
0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-416356=
1245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break=
-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-spa=
ce:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The current draft ex=
tends exisiting SAFI 134 with new NLRI types.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre=
 class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">T=
hat means that now we have new giant NLRI in SAFI 134.=C2=A0</font></span><=
/pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans=
-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-n=
ewpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span =
style=3D"white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Ha=
ve any consideration been made to just define a new flow spec=C2=A0</font><=
/span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"white-space=
:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">SAFI instead for L2 fi=
ltering ? I am quite skeptical=C2=A0from implementation,=C2=A0</font></span=
></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-t=
op:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif"><span style=3D"white-space:normal">operational=C2=A0</span>and=
 deployment points of view to extend the existing SAFI and it=C2=A0</font><=
/pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><span style=3D"white-space:normal=
"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">makes a gradual deployment a =
nightmare if not mission impossible.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D=
"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)=
;white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font=
></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"m=
argin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvet=
ica, sans-serif">Any change to NLRI format without signalling it with new c=
apability is=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073g=
mail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><fo=
nt face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">far from good practice.=C2=A0</fon=
t></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helve=
tica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566=
073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pa=
ge;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">2.=C2=A0<b=
r></font></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helve=
tica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566=
073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pa=
ge;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"=
><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The draft is pretty silent on =
adjusting validation procedures to make sure only=C2=A0</font></span></pre>=
<pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-seri=
f">senders of the original L2 information may inject the L2 flow routes..=
=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage=
" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"a=
rial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-41635=
61245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;brea=
k-before:page"><span style=3D"white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif">I would hope that this is basic omission=C2=A0and will b=
e consider for addition into=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163=
561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;bre=
ak-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-s=
pace:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">next version of he=
 draft.=C2=A0</font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-=
newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font fa=
ce=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m=
_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0=
px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);w=
hite-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font><=
/span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font fac=
e=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Thx,<br></font></pre><pre class=3D"m_-41=
63561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;b=
reak-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);white=
-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">R.</font></span>=
</pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-to=
p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(34,34,34);white-space:normal"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, san=
s-serif"><br></font></span></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-=
newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"><br><=
/pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page"></pre><pre class=3D"m_-4163561245=
680566073gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-=
bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre></div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:33 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 BGP Dissemination of L2VPN Flow Specification Rules<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Weig=
uo Hao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 James Uttaro<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stephane Litkowski<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shunwan Zhuang<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 13<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2019-01-03<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a BGP flow-spec extension to disseminate=
 L2 VPN<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Ethernet traffic filtering rules.=C2=A0 SAFI=3D134 in [RFC5575=
] is redefined<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for this purpose.=C2=A0 A new subset of component types and ex=
tended<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0community also are defined.=C2=A0 A new subset of component ty=
pes and new<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extended community also are defined.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i=
dr-flowspec-l2vpn-09</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2=
vpn-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/html/draft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vp=
n-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url=
2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-flowspec-l2vpn-09</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I-D-Announce mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">I-D-Announce@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce=
</a><br>
Internet-Draft directories: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html</a><br>
or <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000000169fe057ed76eee--


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Subject: [Idr] idr - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 104
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Susan Hares, a Chair of the idr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Inter-Domain Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Susan Hares

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours, 1.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 75
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority:  bess lsr lsvr rift rtgwg netconf netmod spring
 Second Priority:  mpls  babel



People who must be present:
  Susan Hares
  John Scudder
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com>
CC: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <rraszuk@gmail.com>
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CC: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <rraszuk@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com
Cc: Robert Raszuk <rraszuk@gmail.com>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>,  Rob Shakir <robjs=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [spring] Error Handling for BGP-LS with Segment Routing
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On January 8, 2019 at 9:33:49 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com (
bruno.decraene@orange.com) wrote:

Bruno:

Hi!

...

But I=E2=80=99m wondering why error handling is that specific to BGP-LS.

It is just in this thread...

Why is that point not been raised on, let=E2=80=99s say,
draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions which is currently under
IESG review? I can see that the specific are (a bit) different, but the big
picture seems the same: the information is incomplete, how do we handle
this?

[AD Note:  draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions is pending a
new revision to clear an outstanding DISCUSS.  If you (or anyone) has
specific issues about this document, please let me know as I=E2=80=99m read=
y to
approve the publication.]

I didn=E2=80=99t specifically raise the question of error handling for BGP-=
LS with
SR against the current document I=E2=80=99m reviewing
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext) because I don=E2=80=99t think t=
he
solution explicitly belongs there=E2=80=A6so I started the discussion on th=
e
idr/spring lists.  If there are issues with the OSPFv3 transport then the
solution probably doesn=E2=80=99t belong in the extensions draft.

[This part of the discussion belongs on a different list=E2=80=A6] I think =
that the
link state protocols have different characteristics (than BGP-LS) when it
comes to try to ensure common information between the nodes: reliability at
the LSA/LSP level, db synchronization, etc..  That difference brought me to
not bring up the question of incomplete information when I was reviewing
the SR extension drafts.  I may of course be missing an important piece.
If this point needs to be discussed, we should move to lsr.

Then, I=E2=80=99m not sure that the problem is specific/limited to SR/SID
information.

Right.

I think it=E2=80=99s easier to discuss specific problems first and then
generalize=E2=80=A6than start with the general problem.  That is one of the=
 reasons
for this thread.  In the specific case of BGP-LS, rfc7752 makes assumptions
about  about the nature of the information, which I think are broken with
SR=E2=80=A6. I think there=E2=80=99s an SR-specific issue that needs to be =
addressed
somewhere.

As you mentioned before, other applications, like lsvr, could have the same
issues.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

--0000000000008fdd09057ef8d7ec
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">On January 8, 2019 at 9:33:49 AM, <a href=3D"mai=
lto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> (<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>) wrote:</div>=
<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Bruno:</div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica,Arial;font-size:13px">...</div> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D=
"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:n=
ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px"><span><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.000=
1pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-s=
pacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">But I=E2=80=99m wondering why erro=
r handling is that specific to BGP-LS.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"=
>=C2=A0</span></span></p></div></span></blockquote></div><p>It is just in t=
his thread...</p><div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq=
" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;fon=
t-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x"><span><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-=
size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font=
-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:no=
rmal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:norma=
l;word-spacing:0px"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Why is that point not been raised on, let=
=E2=80=99s say, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions which is =
currently under IESG review? I can see that the specific are (a bit) differ=
ent, but the big picture seems the same: the information is incomplete, how=
 do we handle this?</span></p></div></span></blockquote></div><p>[AD Note: =
=C2=A0draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions is pending a new re=
vision to clear an outstanding DISCUSS.=C2=A0 If you (or anyone) has specif=
ic issues about this document, please let me know as I=E2=80=99m ready to a=
pprove the publication.]</p></div><p>I didn=E2=80=99t specifically raise th=
e question of error handling for BGP-LS with SR against the current documen=
t I=E2=80=99m reviewing (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext) because=
 I don=E2=80=99t think the solution explicitly belongs there=E2=80=A6so I s=
tarted the discussion on the idr/spring lists.=C2=A0 If there are issues wi=
th the OSPFv3 transport then the solution probably doesn=E2=80=99t belong i=
n the extensions draft.</p><p>[This part of the discussion belongs on a dif=
ferent list=E2=80=A6] I think that the link state protocols have different =
characteristics (than BGP-LS) when it comes to try to ensure common informa=
tion between the nodes: reliability at the LSA/LSP level, db synchronizatio=
n, etc..=C2=A0 That difference brought me to not bring up the question of i=
ncomplete information when I was reviewing the SR extension drafts.=C2=A0 I=
 may of course be missing an important piece.=C2=A0 If this point needs to =
be discussed, we should move to lsr.</p><div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13p=
x;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spac=
ing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space=
:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none=
;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Then, I=E2=80=99m not sur=
e that the problem is specific/limited to SR/SID information.</span></p></s=
pan></blockquote></div><p>Right. =C2=A0</p><p>I think it=E2=80=99s easier t=
o discuss specific problems first and then generalize=E2=80=A6than start wi=
th the general problem.=C2=A0 That is one of the reasons for this thread.=
=C2=A0 In the specific case of BGP-LS, rfc7752 makes assumptions about=C2=
=A0<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"3">=C2=A0about the nature of th=
e information, which I think are broken with SR=E2=80=A6. I think there=E2=
=80=99s an SR-specific issue that needs to be addressed somewhere.</font></=
p><p><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"3">As you mentioned before, o=
ther applications, like lsvr, could=C2=A0have the same issues.</font></p><p=
><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"3">Thanks!</font></p><p><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium">Alvaro.=C2=A0</span></=
p></div><div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class=3D"App=
le-interchange-newline"></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div=
> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></body></html>

--0000000000008fdd09057ef8d7ec--


From nobody Wed Jan 16 23:38:37 2019
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
        Authors         : Susan Hares
                          Christoph Loibl
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Danny McPherson
                          Martin Bacher
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2019-01-16

Abstract:
   This document defines a Border Gateway Protocol Network Layer
   Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding format that can be used
   to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.  This allows the routing
   system to propagate information regarding more specific components of
   the traffic aggregate defined by an IP destination prefix.

   It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
   carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
   value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
   matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
   are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
   addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.

   This document obsoletes RFC5575 and RFC7674 to correct unclear
   specifications in the flow filters and to provide rules for actions
   which interfere (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering).

   Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) application
   which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
   as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
   service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
   the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
   centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
   deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
   ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict actions
   encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Jan 17 12:06:36 2019
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I have an issue with how people describe BHFing and other similar technique=
s.

First the continued use of RTBH (no F?), isn't nearly all BHFing going to b=
e RT?
Does it make any difference if it is done manually one router at a time vs =
via BGP (I think there is a minor difference but the effect is the same.)
So when I want to say Destination prefix based Black Hole Filtering, it bec=
omes DBHF.

Here are some other filtering definitions and what I think are logical abbr=
evations. I should probably turn that/this into an informational RFC :)

BHF Black Hole Filter (no directionality)
DBHF Destination based BHF
SBHF Source based BHF
CIDBHF Customer Initiated DBHF
DSH Destination based Sink Hole
SSH Source based Sink Hole
DSHSBHF Destination based Sink Hole & SBHF
CIDSHSBHF Customer Initiated DSHSBHF

In almost no case would you actually do BHF with no directionality but for =
completeness I have it in there.

9.1

"Several techniques are currently used to control traffic filtering of
   DoS attacks.  Among those, one of the most common is to inject
   unicast route advertisements corresponding to a destination prefix
   being attacked (commonly known as remote triggered blackhole RTBH).
   One variant of this technique marks such route advertisements with a
   community that gets translated into a discard Next-Hop by the
   receiving router.  Other variants attract traffic to a particular
   node that serves as a deterministic drop point."

DBHF, and

if (initial_ttl!=3D255) then (rfc5082_compliant=3D=3D0)
Donald.Smith@centurylink.com

________________________________________
From: Idr [idr-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org [int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 12:38 AM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
        Authors         : Susan Hares
                          Christoph Loibl
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Danny McPherson
                          Martin Bacher
        Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11.txt
        Pages           : 34
        Date            : 2019-01-16

Abstract:
   This document defines a Border Gateway Protocol Network Layer
   Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding format that can be used
   to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.  This allows the routing
   system to propagate information regarding more specific components of
   the traffic aggregate defined by an IP destination prefix.

   It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
   carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
   value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
   matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
   are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
   addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.

   This document obsoletes RFC5575 and RFC7674 to correct unclear
   specifications in the flow filters and to provide rules for actions
   which interfere (e.g. redirection of traffic and flow filtering).

   Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) application
   which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
   as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
   service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
   the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
   centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
   deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
   ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict actions
   encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10: Should add IPsec & IPsec-GRE as valid Tunnel Types
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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10: Should add IPsec & IPsec-GRE as valid Tunnel Types
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Eric and authors of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10:

Section 3.2 listed VXLAN, VXLAN-GRE, NVGRE, L2TPV3, GRE, MPLS-in-GRE as Tun=
nel Types.

For some deployment scenarios, two nodes can also have ports facing Interne=
t, which requires IPsec to encapsulate the traffic as shown in the followin=
g diagram (described in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-b=
gp-sdwan-overlay-ext/ ):

[cid:image002.png@01D4B33D.C5AD6880]

Can your section 3.2 add IPsec & IPsec-GRE as valid Tunnel Types?
If you don't think IPsec Tunnel Types should be added, can you explain why?

If Yes, should the "Remote Endpoint Sub-TLV" use the remote Interface (port=
) addresses (i.e. B1, B2, etc)?  or should the "Remote Endpoint Sub-TLV" us=
e the PE2's loopback address of 10.1.2.1?

On Page 25 (Section 5), you have a sentence stating:
"Note that some tunnel types may require the execution of an explicit tunne=
l setup protocol before they can be used for carrying data."

This is applicable to IPsec tunnel that requires explicit setup protocol, c=
orrect?


In RFC5512, the BGP speaker indicates the originating Interface address in =
the NLRI (section 3):
[cid:image006.jpg@01D4B33D.C5AD6880]


How does draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10 indicate the Tunnel originating in=
terface?

In the Figure above, there are at least 3 tunnels between PE1 <->PE2: T1 (v=
ia MPLS), T2 and T3 via IPsec over internet. For a Prefix X reachable via P=
E2, does PE1 send BGP Update for Prefix X with 3 different Tunnel Encap att=
ributes to all its neighbors?  Say PE4?  Those Tunnel information is really=
 between PE1<->P2, other nodes, e.g. PE4 really doesn't need to know, corre=
ct?


Thank you very much for the help.
Linda Dunbar


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Eric and authors of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10:=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 3.2 listed VXLAN, VXLAN-GRE, NVGRE, L2TPV3, =
GRE, MPLS-in-GRE as Tunnel Types.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For some deployment scenarios, two nodes can also ha=
ve ports facing Internet, which requires IPsec to encapsulate the traffic a=
s shown in the following diagram (described in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-over=
lay-ext/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-bgp-sdwan-overlay-ext/</a=
> ): <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"392" height=3D"224" id=3D=
"Picture_x0020_2" src=3D"cid:image002.png@01D4B33D.C5AD6880"><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Can your section 3.2 add IPsec &amp; IPsec-GRE as va=
lid Tunnel Types?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you don&#8217;t think IPsec Tunnel Types should b=
e added, can you explain why?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Yes, should the &#8220;Remote Endpoint Sub-TLV&#8=
221; use the remote Interface (port) addresses (i.e. B1, B2, etc)? &nbsp;or=
 should the &#8220;Remote Endpoint Sub-TLV&#8221; use the PE2&#8217;s loopb=
ack address of 10.1.2.1?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Page 25 (Section 5), you have a sentence stating:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><i><span style=3D"color:#=
0070C0">&#8220;Note that some tunnel types may require the execution of an =
explicit tunnel setup protocol before they can be used for carrying data.&#=
8221;<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is applicable to IPsec tunnel that requires exp=
licit setup protocol, correct?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In RFC5512, the BGP speaker indicates the originatin=
g Interface address in the NLRI (section 3):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"752" height=3D"74" id=3D"=
Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image006.jpg@01D4B33D.C5AD6880"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How does draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10 indicate th=
e Tunnel originating interface? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the Figure above, there are at least 3 tunnels be=
tween PE1 &lt;-&gt;PE2: T1 (via MPLS), T2 and T3 via IPsec over internet. F=
or a Prefix X reachable via PE2, does PE1 send BGP Update for Prefix X with=
 3 different Tunnel Encap attributes to
 all its neighbors? &nbsp;Say PE4?&nbsp; Those Tunnel information is really=
 between PE1&lt;-&gt;P2, other nodes, e.g. PE4 really doesn&#8217;t need to=
 know, correct?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you very much for the help. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
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From nobody Fri Jan 25 14:36:14 2019
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 17:35:07 -0500
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Flowspec draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis last (known) issue that needs to be resolved
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Christoph,

On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 11:55:46AM +0100, Christoph Loibl wrote:
> During the interim we agreed on a procedure to resolve the last known
> issues of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis. Since then I uploaded some changes
> (as posted on the list previously). The result is, that there is only one
> remaining issue that I want to address now.

Thanks for the recent diffs.  They covered my comments on those sections.

> The draft RFC5557bis contains a section on traffic action interference
> which is (as pointed out already on the list) very restrictive and may
> break current use-cases as pointed out by Jeffery. We had some discussion
> on this amongst the authors of the draft. I try to summarize and would
> love to get advice from the list:
> 
> *) Precondition - RFC5575:
> 
> RFC5575 completely ignores the fact that traffic actions may “interfere”
> with each other. (simplest example: 2 different rate-limits for a given
> flow - which rate-limit should be applied?) This makes the result
> unpredictable.

Arguably, it makes the results "implementation dependent".  

An important observation is that since these conflicts are caused by an
excess of extended communities that inconsistent behaviors can be corrected
by operators.  "Don't do that".

That said, I'm supportive of trying to be clearer in our behaviors here.

> *) Suggested solution A - make action predictable:
> 
> As pointed out above the current specification (RFC5575) is unpredictable
> while the draft RFC5575bis is too restrictive. Suggested solution A
> targets this problem by sorting the traffic action communities (while not
> restricting what is actually propagated):
> 
> + For traffic rate communities: Use the lowest traffic rate (floating
> point number encoded in the ext-community)
> 
> + For redirect-rt commuities: Sort them in ascending order and use the
> lowest feasible for traffic redirection (some RTs may not be feasible
> because there is on import statement for that particular RT in the
> configuration).
> 
> + For the remaining actions: Always use the lowest encoded value (memcmp).
> 
> Using always the “lowest” is only for the sake of predictability,
> “highest” may be as good. (I remember that someone mentioned during the
> interim meeting that some sorting is already part of someones
> implementation).

As has been previously noted in mails on extended community features, it's
quite common for implementations to canonicalize sets of extended
communities through sorting.  So, in the sense that sorting should be done,
that part is covered.

The place I think you may find resistance to this suggestion is sorted
_how_.  I'll air a very minor amount of dirty laundry from our
implementation to offer as an example.

We store the type/subtype in a unsigned 16 bit number.
We store the remaining 6 octets in one of two different 32-bit unsigned
numbers, depending on the community semantic.  (32-bit implementation
originally.)
The sort will consider type/subtype, then each of the two 32-bit numbers.

As such, there's no guarantee in our current implementation that there'd be
a sort congruent a more abstract sort routine in a draft such as this one.  

There's also the issue that another working group may look upon this
discussion and request a different sort mechanism for their mechanisms.
(I'm looking at you, bess!)

What this would lead to is per-application (e.g. flowspec) sort orders,
which means either your extended community collection gets canonicalized for
easy use, or you have to do a sub-sort before taking an action.  Choose
where your CPU goes. :-)

All of that said:

> *) Suggested solution B - only document the behaviour:
> 
> We can add to the operational consideration section that there may be
> interfering traffic actions. FS filters with interfering actions shall
> still be propagated but the actual selection of the appropriate actions is
> up to the implementation. If a network/fs-domain wide predictable
> behaviour is needed for an application this can still be achieved by using
> custom BGP communities and BGP policies (plus rewriting those to the
> appropriated actions).
> 
> This is very “lightweight” and I think that solution B may easily find
> consensus. However the benefit over RFC5575 is only very little.
> 
> Any preferences how we should proceed?

I'd suggest B.

The text I would suggest would roughly say:
Traffic actions are encoded as BGP extended communities.  Traffic actions,
in many cases, are expected to only be encoded once.  For example, only a
single valid traffic-rate-bytes extended community can be processed at a
time.  Operators should take precautions to not introduce conflicting
actions as a result of policy configuration.

...

There may be some worth in adding a similar comment to implementors about
having good policy mechanisms to make this job easy for operators.

-- Jeff


From nobody Tue Jan 29 03:31:15 2019
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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: [Idr] BGP-LS Drafts - Getting around a Road Block
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IDR WG Last Calls and adoptions for the following IDR BGP LS related drafts
have hit a road block due two issues: concerns regarding message size and
error handling problems: 

 

WG LCs

.         draft-ietf-bgp-ls-segement-routing-rld-03.txt, 

.         draft-ietf-bgp-ls-segement-routing-md-02.txt , 

.         draft-ietf-bgp-idr-te-lsp-distribution-09.txt 

 

Adoptions: 

.         draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr, 

.         draft-wu-idr-bgp-segement-allocation-ext

.         draft-li-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions

.         draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-alo 

 

One solution to the message size issue is to simply standardize
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-message-27.txt with the level of implementation
experience we have at this point.   A WG call for this will start today. 

 

Since the error handling issues are common to BGP-LS, Sue asked Alvaro to
discuss the error handling during December on IDR, SPRING, and LSVR.  On
12/19/2018 Alvaro Retana sent a query regarding error handling for BGP-LS as
he reviewed draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.    AFAWK (As far as
we know), there was no clear agreement on the problem or potential
solutions.    The chairs will be discussing further work on the error
handling issues with other chairs of groups impacted (BESS, SPRING, LSVR).  

 

.  In order to not slow down any BGP-LS or segment routing drafts, the IDR
WG will "provisionally" complete WG LC and adoptions. 

 

.         For WG LC, provisional means that we will complete all other
facets of the WG LC process and get an early AD review. After IDR at IETF
104, the chairs will suggest changes across all drafts. 

 

.         For WG Adoption, provisional means we will adopt the drafts with
the caveat that the error handling may need to change. 

 

This message is a WG call for comments on this approach to get us past the
BGP-LS draft road block. 

 

Sue Hares and John Scudder


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
DR WG Last Calls and adoptions for the following IDR BGP LS related =
drafts have hit a road block due two issues: concerns regarding message =
size and error handling problems: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>W=
G LCs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpFirst =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-ietf-bgp-ls-segement-routing-rld-03.txt, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-ietf-bgp-ls-segement-routing-md-02.txt , <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpLast style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-ietf-bgp-idr-te-lsp-distribution-09.txt <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
doptions: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpFirst =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-wu-idr-bgp-segement-allocation-ext<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-li-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>d=
raft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-alo <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpLast><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
ne solution to the message size issue is to simply standardize =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-message-27.txt with the level of implementation =
experience we have at this point.&nbsp;&nbsp; A WG call for this will =
start today. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ince the error handling issues are common to BGP-LS, Sue asked Alvaro to =
discuss the error handling during December on IDR, SPRING, and =
LSVR.&nbsp; On 12/19/2018 Alvaro Retana sent a query regarding error =
handling for BGP-LS as he reviewed =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AFAWK (As =
far as we know), there was no clear agreement on the problem or =
potential solutions.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The chairs will be discussing =
further work on the error handling issues with other chairs of groups =
impacted (BESS, SPRING, LSVR).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>.=
&nbsp; In order to not slow down any BGP-LS or segment routing drafts, =
the IDR WG will &#8220;provisionally&#8221; complete WG LC and =
adoptions. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
or WG LC, provisional means that we will complete all other facets of =
the WG LC process and get an early AD review. After IDR at IETF 104, the =
chairs will suggest changes across all drafts. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpFirst =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
or WG Adoption, provisional means we will adopt the drafts with the =
caveat that the error handling may need to change. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraphCxSpLast><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his message is a WG call for comments on this approach to get us past =
the BGP-LS draft road block. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares and John Scudder</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div></body></html>
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This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: 

 

 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

 

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at: 

 

 
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementati
ons

 

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.  

 

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation.  

 

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication.  

 

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) 

 

 


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Hi WG,

Please find below some comments.
As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed t=
o IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the =
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hen=
ce no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here t=
his document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a nic=
he use case. So I don't see the arguments for not requiring the IDR's usual=
 two interoperable implementations.

----
=A7 1
" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgps=
ec-protocol>]), there is
   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section=
-1


[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 8205 =
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any refer=
ence to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does no=
t need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.
Can we have an update on this?
Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

----

"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
   maximum message size into account."

I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wou=
ld suggest to remove this sentence

----
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.


The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP=
 message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each=
 attribute.
Please elaborate on what you mean by "an attribute which can not be decompo=
sed to 4096 octets"

---
"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."

What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension? That they =
don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP =
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size o=
f 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? Th=
is should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.
----
Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational =
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN n=
etworks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI being =
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Rou=
te Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the avail=
ability provided by the network.

---
=A74
OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except fo=
r the OPEN message.
Probably
NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except fo=
r the OPEN message (type 1).
----
=A78

"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =BB

Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a =
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to=
 a received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
OLD : to reduce compexity
NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Please find below some com=
ments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As of today, I don&#8217;t=
 believe this specification is ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especial=
ly for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The WG chairs intend to forwar=
d this draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://trac.ie=
tf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://t=
rac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
 says : </span><span lang=3D"EN-US">5a <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Does not send Extended Message =
capability
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I may be misunderstanding =
the implementation report, but my reading of the above is that none of the =
reported implementations sends the capability hence no implementation
 supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is upda=
ting RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I do=
n&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR&#8217;s usual two int=
eroperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A7 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220; As BGP is extende=
d to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabi=
lities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" ti=
tle=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.=
ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; a need to ex=
tend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">[</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref=
-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specificatio=
n&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the reference). I=
t has removed the normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me=
ssages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can we have an update on t=
his?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can the introduction of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-me=
ssages be updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">=A73 says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A peer which does not adver=
tise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Mes=
sages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Fine. Text in =
=A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:black">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">NEW:<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received the<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability to and from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications=
 generating information which might be encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP m=
essages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum mess=
age size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I don&#8217;t see what new=
 behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I would suggest to remove=
 this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announ=
cement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking=
 Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not=
 have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an a=
ttribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an E=
xtended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The issue is n=
ot specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose=
 length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each
 attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please elabora=
te on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">an attribut=
e which can not
 be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is=
 RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative=
 in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">What does this mean exactl=
y? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they don&#8217;t use this=
 extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; Future protocol sp=
ecifications will need to describe how to handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which =
can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Why is this limited to fut=
ure specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attri=
butes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octets.
 How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This should be d=
escribed in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handl=
ing, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Depending on t=
he above specification, a section describing the operational consequences i=
n a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI bein=
g removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as R=
oute Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the ava=
ilability provided by the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=A74<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD: The Extended Message=
 Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN message.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Probably<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW: The Extended Message=
 Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN message (type =
1).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quo=
t;serif&quot;">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlyin=
g security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quo=
t;serif&quot;">Before evaluating this, I think this document should first s=
pecified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it need=
s to be sent to a received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Nits:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
exity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
lexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [mai=
lto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This begins a =
2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extend=
ed-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the draft at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The authors sh=
ould indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are en=
couraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.or=
g/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">htt=
ps://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The draft prov=
ides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages=
 except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short
 for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS featur=
es.&nbsp; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The WG chairs =
intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of implemen=
tation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As you comment=
 on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the addi=
tional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying
 BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sue Hares (WG =
Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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modified, changed or falsified.
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</PRE></body>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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The solution to:

*	BGP-LS needs extended message support
*	No one has implemented BGP extended message support

=85would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP =
extended
message support.

=20

Then everyone would be happy.

=20

Adrian

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a
niche use case. So I don=92t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=A7 1

=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=94

=20

I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =93an attribute which can not be
decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

---

=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension? That =
they
don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the
availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for
the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for
the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=A78

=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to
a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou
falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>The solution to:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul =
style=3D'margin-top:0cm' type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>BGP-LS needs extended message =
support<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>No one has implemented BGP extended message =
support<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>&#8230;would appear to be to have implementations of =
BGP-LS implement BGP extended message support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Then everyone would be happy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>As of today, I =
don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&gt=
; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a> says : </span><span lang=3DEN-US>5a =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Does not send Extended =
Message capability <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I =
may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the =
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability =
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension =
for a niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the arguments for not =
requiring the IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), =
there is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>[</span><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Can we have an =
update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>=A74<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>=A73 says &#8220;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A peer which does not =
advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>&#8221;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fin=
e. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>OLD: </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>NEW=
:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&#8220;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their =
payload to take the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum message size into =
account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP =
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Ple=
ase elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>What does this =
mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Dep=
ending on the above specification, a section describing the operational =
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: =
The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except for =
the OPEN message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This extension to BGP does =
not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 =
octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting =
this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Nit=
s:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Tha=
nks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>--B=
runo<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></=
b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Thi=
s begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span>=
<span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>https://trac.ie=
tf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span></=
a></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>As =
you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sue=
 Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_024B_01D4B7D8.F79568D0--



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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Susan Hares' <shares@ndzh.com>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]


The solution to:

  *   BGP-LS needs extended message support
  *   No one has implemented BGP extended message support
...would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP exten=
ded message support.

+1
Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of BGP e=
xtended message, the statement "*     BGP-LS needs extended message support=
" probably needs to be refined.
--Bruno

Then everyone would be happy.

Adrian

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hi WG,

Please find below some comments.
As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed t=
o IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the =
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hen=
ce no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here t=
his document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a nic=
he use case. So I don't see the arguments for not requiring the IDR's usual=
 two interoperable implementations.

----
=A7 1
" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgps=
ec-protocol>]), there is
   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section=
-1


[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 8205 =
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any refer=
ence to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does no=
t need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.
Can we have an update on this?
Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

----

"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
   maximum message size into account."

I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wou=
ld suggest to remove this sentence

----
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.


The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP=
 message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each=
 attribute.
Please elaborate on what you mean by "an attribute which can not be decompo=
sed to 4096 octets"

---
"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."

What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension? That they =
don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP =
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size o=
f 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? Th=
is should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.
----
Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational =
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN n=
etworks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI being =
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Rou=
te Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the avail=
ability provided by the network.

---
=A74
OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except fo=
r the OPEN message.
Probably
NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except fo=
r the OPEN message (type 1).
----
=A78

"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =BB

Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a =
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to=
 a received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
OLD : to reduce compexity
NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Adrian F=
arrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">The solution to:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">BGP-LS needs extended message support=
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">No one has imp=
lemented BGP extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">&#8230;would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BG=
P extended message support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-l=
anguage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-l=
anguage:EN-US">&#43;1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-l=
anguage:EN-US">Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implemen=
tation of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"=
>BGP extended message, the statement &#8220;&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 BGP-LS needs extended message support&#8221; probably needs to be refined.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast=
-language:EN-US">--Bruno</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-f=
areast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">Then everyone would be happy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S">Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 13:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Please find below some com=
ments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As of today, I don&#8217;t=
 believe this specification is ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especial=
ly for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt; The WG ch=
airs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of imp=
lementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"5" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://trac.ie=
tf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://t=
rac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
 says : </span><span lang=3D"EN-US">5a <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Does not send Extended Message =
capability
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I may be misunderstanding =
the implementation report, but my reading of the above is that none of the =
reported implementations sends the capability hence no implementation
 supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is upda=
ting RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I do=
n&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR&#8217;s usual two int=
eroperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A7 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220; As BGP is extende=
d to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabi=
lities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" ti=
tle=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.=
ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; a need to ex=
tend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">[</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref=
-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specificatio=
n&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the r=
eference). It has removed the normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need
 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can we have an update on t=
his?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can the introduction of
<span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated=
 to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A73 says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Mes=
sages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Fine. Text in =
=A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">NEW:<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received the<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability to and from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be en=
capsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP m=
essages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum mess=
age size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I don&#8217;t see what new=
 behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I would suggest to remove=
 this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announ=
cement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking=
 Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not=
 have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an a=
ttribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an E=
xtended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The issue is n=
ot specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose=
 length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each
 attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please elabora=
te on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">an attribut=
e which can not
 be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is=
 RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative=
 in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">What does this mean exactl=
y? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they don&#8217;t use this=
 extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; Future protocol sp=
ecifications will need to describe how to handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which =
can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Why is this limited to fut=
ure specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attri=
butes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octets.
 How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This should be d=
escribed in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handl=
ing, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Depending on t=
he above specification, a section describing the operational consequences i=
n a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI bein=
g removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as R=
oute Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the ava=
ilability provided by the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=A74<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD: The Extended Message=
 Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN message.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Probably<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW: The Extended Message=
 Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN message (type =
1).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not chang=
e BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Before evaluating this, I think this docume=
nt should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is han=
dled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting this extension.<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Nits:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
exity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
lexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This begins a =
2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extend=
ed-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the draft at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The authors sh=
ould indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are en=
couraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.or=
g/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">htt=
ps://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The draft prov=
ides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages=
 except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short
 for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS featur=
es.&nbsp; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The WG chairs =
intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of implemen=
tation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As you comment=
 on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the addi=
tional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying
 BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sue Hares (WG =
Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Ce message et se=
s pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privi=
legiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">pas etre diffuse=
s, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">a l'expediteur e=
t le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etan=
t susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Orange decline t=
oute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">This message and=
 its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that ma=
y be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">they should not =
be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">If you have rece=
ived this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">As emails may be=
 altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, change=
d or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Thank you.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:

=20

Thank you for your comments on this topic =96 as I think=20

=20

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this
report.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information on =
the
list.   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the IESG.  =
=20

=20

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a =
requirement
and only moved to not specifying it when we could not quickly pass this
through WG LC.=20

=20

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.
As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles an BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for the
correction of:=20

=20

=93The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but =
to BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.=94

=20

=20

As to your comment:=20

=20

=93Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using =
existing BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.=94

=20

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to
have the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP
message limit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.=20

=20

I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the =
text.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a
niche use case. So I don=92t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=A7 1

=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=94

=20

I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =93an attribute which can not be
decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

---

=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension? That =
they
don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

=20

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the
availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for
the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for
the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=A78

=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to
a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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=20
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Bruno:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Thank you for your comments on this topic &#8211; as =
I think <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full =
implementations of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which =
is not listed in this report. =A0=A0I hope those implementers will =
volunteer this information on the list. =A0=A0If not, I will share this =
information with Alvaro and the IESG.=A0 =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>The SIDR work did define =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement and only moved to not =
specifying it when we could not quickly pass this through WG LC. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out =
of BGP message space.=A0 As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was =
hoping this handles an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 =
bytes.=A0 =A0Thank you for the correction of: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&#8220;The issue is not specific to attributes bigger =
than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each =
attribute.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>As to =
your comment: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This problem has =
been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago. =A0=A0As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases. =A0It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I hope the authors =
will comment on the changes you suggested to the text. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Cheers, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Susan Hares <span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last =
Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 =
says &#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A peer =
which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OLD: </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&#8220;</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications =
generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&#8220;This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying =
security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 =
octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting =
this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr =
[mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan =
Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Ra65-Dot7CJVO2NyBICTt_pSqxw>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Adrian:=20

=20

I hope those who have implementations will chime in.   I have received
reported of at least 1 full implementation and 1 private.  =20

=20

By the way, IDR does send specification through WG LC and then hold for
implementations.     In this case, I hope this will encourage more
implementations.=20

=20

Cheerily, Sue=20

=20

From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:46 AM
To: bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Susan Hares'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

The solution to:

*	BGP-LS needs extended message support
*	No one has implemented BGP extended message support

=85would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP =
extended
message support.

=20

Then everyone would be happy.

=20

Adrian

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a
niche use case. So I don=92t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=A7 1

=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=94

=20

I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =93an attribute which can not be
decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

---

=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension? That =
they
don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the
availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for
the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for
the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=A78

=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to
a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou
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=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Adrian: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I hope those who have implementations will chime in. =A0=A0I have =
received reported of at least 1 full implementation and 1 private.=A0 =
=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>By the way, IDR does send specification through WG LC and then hold =
for implementations.=A0=A0=A0 =A0In this case, I hope this will =
encourage more implementations. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheerily, Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, =
January 29, 2019 8:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Susan =
Hares'<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last =
Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The =
solution to:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0in' =
type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGP-LS =
needs extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>No one has =
implemented BGP extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&#8230;woul=
d appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP extended =
message support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Then =
everyone would be happy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Adrian<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 =
says &#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A peer =
which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OLD: </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&#8220;</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications =
generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&#8220;This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying =
security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 =
octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting =
this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01D4B7C7.FF465000--



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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:=20

=20

On:=20

=93BGP-LS needs extended message support=94 probably needs to be =
refined=94 =96 I
can live with.=20

=20

Perhaps you define the word =93needs=94 different that I do.   If =
BGP=3DLS
requires the use of extended-messages to work, then =93requires=94 is =
the word.
If extended-messages will provide better support the growing number of
BGP-LS attributes, then =93need=94 is to better support. =20

=20

If you wish to pick a better word for its marketing value, then pick a =
word.
The important part is the reality of the packing of an increasing number =
of
BGP-LS NLRIs and attributes into the BGP message.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20

=20

The solution to:

*	BGP-LS needs extended message support
*	No one has implemented BGP extended message support

=85would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP =
extended
message support.

=20

+1

Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of =
BGP
extended message, the statement =93=95     BGP-LS needs extended message
support=94 probably needs to be refined.

--Bruno

=20

Then everyone would be happy.

=20

Adrian

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a
niche use case. So I don=92t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=A7 1

=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=94

=20

I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =93an attribute which can not be
decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

---

=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension? That =
they
don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the
availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for
the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for
the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=A78

=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to
a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>On: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8220;BGP-LS needs extended message support&#8221; probably needs to =
be refined&#8221; &#8211; I can live with. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Perhaps you define the word &#8220;needs&#8221; different that I =
do.=A0 =A0If BGP=3DLS requires the use of extended-messages to work, =
then &#8220;requires&#8221; is the word.=A0 If extended-messages will =
provide better support the growing number of BGP-LS attributes, then =
&#8220;need&#8221; is to better support.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If you wish to pick a better word for its marketing value, then pick =
a word. =A0=A0The important part is the reality of the packing of an =
increasing number of BGP-LS NLRIs and attributes into the BGP message. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Adrian =
Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The =
solution to:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0in' =
type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGP-LS =
needs extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>No one has =
implemented BGP extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&#8230;woul=
d appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP extended =
message support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>+1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of =
</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BGP extended message, the statement =
&#8220;&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP-LS needs extended message =
support&#8221; probably needs to be refined.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--Bruno</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Then =
everyone would be happy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Adrian<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 says =
&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP messages =
bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a =
received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre =
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01D4B7C9.031A45F0--


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Sue,

Thanks for the clarification on this.
Regarding the choice of word, I'm definitely not the reference for fine und=
erstanding of English nuances. That being said,  Merriam-Webster seems to d=
efine "need" as "require".  I feel like the use of "would benefit from" may=
 be clearer for everyone.
transitive verb<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive>
: to be in need of : require<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/req=
uire>

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/need

Regarding the reality of the need, if BGP-LS implementations need Extended =
Message support, they are free to implement it today, yesterday or a few ye=
ars ago. I'll take the risk of using an English idiom "the proof of the pud=
ding is in the eating". I don't see IETF/IDR as blocking the implementation=
s.

Cheers,
--Bruno

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:52 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

On:
"BGP-LS needs extended message support" probably needs to be refined" - I c=
an live with.

Perhaps you define the word "needs" different that I do.   If BGP=3DLS requ=
ires the use of extended-messages to work, then "requires" is the word.  If=
 extended-messages will provide better support the growing number of BGP-LS=
 attributes, then "need" is to better support.

If you wish to pick a better word for its marketing value, then pick a word=
.   The important part is the reality of the packing of an increasing numbe=
r of BGP-LS NLRIs and attributes into the BGP message.

Cheers,

Sue


From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]

The solution to:

  *   BGP-LS needs extended message support
  *   No one has implemented BGP extended message support
...would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP exten=
ded message support.

+1
Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of BGP e=
xtended message, the statement "*     BGP-LS needs extended message support=
" probably needs to be refined.
--Bruno

Then everyone would be happy.

Adrian

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hi WG,

Please find below some comments.
As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed t=
o IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the =
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hen=
ce no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here t=
his document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a nic=
he use case. So I don't see the arguments for not requiring the IDR's usual=
 two interoperable implementations.

----
=A7 1
" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgps=
ec-protocol>]), there is
   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section=
-1


[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 8205 =
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any refer=
ence to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does no=
t need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.
Can we have an update on this?
Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

----

"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
   maximum message size into account."

I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wou=
ld suggest to remove this sentence

----
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.


The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP=
 message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each=
 attribute.
Please elaborate on what you mean by "an attribute which can not be decompo=
sed to 4096 octets"

---
"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."

What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension? That they =
don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP =
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size o=
f 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? Th=
is should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.
----
Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational =
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN n=
etworks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI being =
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Rou=
te Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the avail=
ability provided by the network.

---
=A74
OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except fo=
r the OPEN message.
Probably
NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except fo=
r the OPEN message (type 1).
----
=A78

"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =BB

Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a =
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to=
 a received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
OLD : to reduce compexity
NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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</head>
<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks for the=
 clarification on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regarding the =
choice of word, I&#8217;m definitely not the reference for fine understandi=
ng of English nuances. That being said,&nbsp; Merriam-Webster seems to
 define &#8220;need&#8221; as &#8220;require&#8221;. &nbsp;I feel like the =
use of &#8220;would benefit from&#8221; may be clearer for everyone.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt">
<a href=3D"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">transitive verb</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US">to be in need of
<b>: </b></span><a href=3D"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/requi=
re"><span lang=3D"EN-US">require</span></a>
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"htt=
ps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/need">https://www.merriam-webster.c=
om/dictionary/need</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regarding the =
reality of the need, if BGP-LS implementations need Extended Message suppor=
t, they are free to implement it today, yesterday or a few
 years ago. I&#8217;ll take the risk of using an English idiom &#8220;the p=
roof of the pudding is in the eating&#8221;. I don&#8217;t see IETF/IDR as =
blocking the implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Susan Ha=
res [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; adrian@olddog.co.uk<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">On:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;BGP=
-LS needs extended message support&#8221; probably needs to be refined&#822=
1; &#8211; I can live with.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Perhaps yo=
u define the word &#8220;needs&#8221; different that I do.&nbsp; &nbsp;If B=
GP=3DLS requires the use of extended-messages to work, then &#8220;requires=
&#8221; is the word.&nbsp;
 If extended-messages will provide better support the growing number of BGP=
-LS attributes, then &#8220;need&#8221; is to better support.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If you wis=
h to pick a better word for its marketing value, then pick a word. &nbsp;&n=
bsp;The important part is the reality of the packing of an increasing
 number of BGP-LS NLRIs and attributes into the BGP message. <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Cheers,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@oran=
ge.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;"> Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The solution to:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-=
GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">BGP-LS needs extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">No one has implemented BGP extended message support<o:p></o:p></span=
></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8230;would appear to b=
e to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP extended message support.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#43;1<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Also, if the=
re are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">BGP extended message, the =
statement &#8220;&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP-LS needs extended mess=
age support&#8221; probably needs to be refined.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--Bruno</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Then everyone would be h=
appy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Adrian<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 13:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Please find below some com=
ments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As of today, I don&#8217;t=
 believe this specification is ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especial=
ly for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt; The WG ch=
airs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of imp=
lementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"5" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr=
/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://trac.ietf.org/tr=
ac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
 says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does not send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p=
></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I may be misunderstanding =
the implementation report, but my reading of the above is that none of the =
reported implementations sends the capability hence no implementation
 supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is upda=
ting RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I do=
n&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR&#8217;s usual two int=
eroperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A7 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220; As BGP is extende=
d to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabi=
lities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" ti=
tle=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.=
ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; a need to ex=
tend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">[</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref=
-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specificatio=
n&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the r=
eference). It has removed the normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need
 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can we have an update on t=
his?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can the introduction of
<span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated=
 to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A73 says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Mes=
sages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Fine. Text in =
=A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">NEW:<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received the<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability to and from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be en=
capsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP m=
essages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum mess=
age size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I don&#8217;t see what new=
 behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I would suggest to remove=
 this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announ=
cement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking=
 Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not=
 have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an a=
ttribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an E=
xtended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The issue is n=
ot specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose=
 length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each
 attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please elabora=
te on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">an attribut=
e which can not
 be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is=
 RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative=
 in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">What does this mean exactl=
y? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they don&#8217;t use this=
 extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; Future protocol sp=
ecifications will need to describe how to handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which =
can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Why is this limited to fut=
ure specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attri=
butes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octets.
 How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This should be d=
escribed in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handl=
ing, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Depending on t=
he above specification, a section describing the operational consequences i=
n a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI bein=
g removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as R=
oute Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the ava=
ilability provided by the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=A74<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD: The Extended Message=
 Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN message.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Probably<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW: The Extended Message=
 Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN message (type =
1).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not chang=
e BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Before evaluating this, I think this docume=
nt should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is han=
dled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting this extension.<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Nits:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
exity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
lexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This begins a =
2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extend=
ed-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the draft at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The authors sh=
ould indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are en=
couraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.or=
g/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">htt=
ps://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The draft prov=
ides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages=
 except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short
 for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS featur=
es.&nbsp; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The WG chairs =
intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of implemen=
tation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As you comment=
 on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the addi=
tional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying
 BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sue Hares (WG =
Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Ce message et se=
s pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privi=
legiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">pas etre diffuse=
s, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">a l'expediteur e=
t le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etan=
t susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Orange decline t=
oute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">This message and=
 its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that ma=
y be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">they should not =
be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">If you have rece=
ived this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">As emails may be=
 altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, change=
d or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Thank you.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Sue,

Please see 1 comment inline [Bruno]

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:42 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

Thank you for your comments on this topic - as I think

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of draf=
t-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in this repor=
t.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information on the list.=
   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the IESG.

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement =
and only moved to not specifying it when we could not quickly pass this thr=
ough WG LC.

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message space. =
 As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles an BGP me=
ssage whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for the correctio=
n of:

"The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BG=
P message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of eac=
h attribute."


As to your comment:

"Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP=
 mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size =
of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? T=
his should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case=
 of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified."

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to ha=
ve the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS attri=
butes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP message li=
mit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent issues.
[Bruno] I understand the BGP-LS issue and more generally I support removing=
 such limitation even before we hit it. But IMHO a bigger issue is the pote=
ntial impact in networks supporting many services and users such as the Int=
ernet and VPN ones. The document is applicable to all AFI/SAFI so I'd like =
the document to define how such routes would be handled when received with =
a set of attributes larger than the current 4271 limit and having to be sen=
t to speakers not supporting Extend Message. One possible option may be to =
treat as withdraw, possibly on RR/over IBGP (i.e., within the AS) which wou=
ld translates in routing inconsistencies within the AS. Another option woul=
d be to drop some attributes or some attribute content (which ones). There =
are probably other reasons. As of today the behavior is undefined and the d=
ocument does not even refer to this problem. I'm sorry to say that is not g=
ood enough for me. Again is not even about error handling, but regular beha=
vior of this specification.

Thanks
Cheers,
--Bruno


I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the text.

Cheers,
Susan Hares



From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hi WG,

Please find below some comments.
As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed t=
o IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the =
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hen=
ce no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here t=
his document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a nic=
he use case. So I don't see the arguments for not requiring the IDR's usual=
 two interoperable implementations.

----
=A7 1
" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgps=
ec-protocol>]), there is
   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section=
-1


[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-b=
gp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 8205 =
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any refer=
ence to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does no=
t need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.
Can we have an update on this?
Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

----

"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
   maximum message size into account."

I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wou=
ld suggest to remove this sentence

----
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.


The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP=
 message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each=
 attribute.
Please elaborate on what you mean by "an attribute which can not be decompo=
sed to 4096 octets"

---
"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."

What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension? That they =
don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP =
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size o=
f 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? Th=
is should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.


----
Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational =
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN n=
etworks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI being =
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Rou=
te Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the avail=
ability provided by the network.

---
=A74
OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except fo=
r the OPEN message.
Probably
NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except fo=
r the OPEN message (type 1).
----
=A78

"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =BB

Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a =
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to=
 a received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
OLD : to reduce compexity
NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc

pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler

a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,

Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.



This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;

they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.

If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.

As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sue,<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please see 1 c=
omment inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thank you f=
or your comments on this topic &#8211; as I think
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I did recei=
ve reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of draft-ietf-idr-=
bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in this
 report. &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope those implementers will volunteer this informat=
ion on the list. &nbsp;&nbsp;If not, I will share this information with Alv=
aro and the IESG.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The SIDR wo=
rk did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement and only mo=
ved to not specifying it when we could not quickly pass this
 through WG LC. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The real ne=
eds are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message space.&nbsp; As my=
 previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles an
 BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you =
for the correction of:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">&#8220;The is=
sue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP messa=
ge whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of
 each attribute.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">As to your co=
mment:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;Why is this limite=
d to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAF=
I, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096
 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This sho=
uld be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case of err=
or handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.&#8221;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">This problem has been tru=
e for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the draft-ietf-bgp-ext=
ended-messages passed years ago. &nbsp;&nbsp;As BGP-LS attributes grow
 use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP message limit increa=
ses. &nbsp;It seems like a good direction to prevent issues.<span style=3D"=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[Bruno] I unde=
rstand the BGP-LS issue and more generally I support removing such limitati=
on even before we hit it. But IMHO a bigger issue is the potential
 impact in networks supporting many services and users such as the Internet=
 and VPN ones. The document is applicable to all AFI/SAFI so I&#8217;d like=
 the document to define how such routes would be handled when received with=
 a set of attributes larger than the current
 4271 limit and having to be sent to speakers not supporting Extend Message=
. One possible option may be to treat as withdraw, possibly on RR/over IBGP=
 (i.e., within the AS) which would translates in routing inconsistencies wi=
thin the AS. Another option would
 be to drop some attributes or some attribute content (which ones). There a=
re probably other reasons. As of today the behavior is undefined and the do=
cument does not even refer to this problem. I&#8217;m sorry to say that is =
not good enough for me. Again is not even
 about error handling, but regular behavior of this specification.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">I hope the authors will c=
omment on the changes you suggested to the text.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Cheers,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Susan Hares
<span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@oran=
ge.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Please find below some com=
ments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">As of today, I don&#8217;t=
 believe this specification is ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especial=
ly for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt; The WG ch=
airs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of imp=
lementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr=
/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations">https://trac.ietf.org/tr=
ac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</a>
 says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does not send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p=
></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I may be misunderstanding =
the implementation report, but my reading of the above is that none of the =
reported implementations sends the capability hence no implementation
 supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is upda=
ting RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I do=
n&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR&#8217;s usual two int=
eroperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A7 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220; As BGP is extende=
d to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabi=
lities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" ti=
tle=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.=
ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; a need to ex=
tend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">[</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref=
-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specificatio=
n&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the r=
eference). It has removed the normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need
 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can we have an update on t=
his?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Can the introduction of
<span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated=
 to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=A73 says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Mes=
sages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Fine. Text in =
=A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">NEW:<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Ext=
ended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received the<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Mes=
sage Capability to and from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be en=
capsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP m=
essages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum mess=
age size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I don&#8217;t see what new=
 behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I would suggest to remove=
 this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announ=
cement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking=
 Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not=
 have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an a=
ttribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an E=
xtended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The issue is n=
ot specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose=
 length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each
 attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please elabora=
te on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">an attribut=
e which can not
 be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is=
 RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative=
 in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">What does this mean exactl=
y? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they don&#8217;t use this=
 extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp; Future protocol sp=
ecifications will need to describe how to handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which =
can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Why is this limited to fut=
ure specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attri=
butes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octets.
 How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This should be d=
escribed in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handl=
ing, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">----<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Depending on t=
he above specification, a section describing the operational consequences i=
n a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI bein=
g removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as R=
oute Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the ava=
ilability provided by the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">---<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=A74<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD: The Extended Message=
 Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN message.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Probably<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW: The Extended Message=
 Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN message (type =
1).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not chang=
e BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Before evaluating this, I think this docume=
nt should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is han=
dled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting this extension.<=
o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Nits:<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OLD&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
exity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">NEW&nbsp;: to reduce comp=
lexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">--Bruno<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [mai=
lto:idr-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This begins a =
2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extend=
ed-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the draft at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The authors sh=
ould indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are en=
couraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.or=
g/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">htt=
ps://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The draft prov=
ides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages=
 except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short
 for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS featur=
es.&nbsp; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The WG chairs =
intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of implemen=
tation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As you comment=
 on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the addi=
tional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying
 BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sue Hares (WG =
Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Ce message et se=
s pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privi=
legiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">pas etre diffuse=
s, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">a l'expediteur e=
t le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etan=
t susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Orange decline t=
oute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">This message and=
 its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that ma=
y be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">they should not =
be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">If you have rece=
ived this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">As emails may be=
 altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, change=
d or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Thank you.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489AF5ADOPEXCAUBM43corp_--


From nobody Tue Jan 29 09:28:01 2019
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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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colloquially, in pacific northwest american english, ‘need’ is not
as strong as ‘require.’  maybe 82.3% give or take a few tenths of
a percent. :)

i am working on your long review message.  thanks for putting the
time into it.

randy


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:=20

=20

Good catch on this point.=20

=20

=93I=92d like the document to define how such routes would be handled =
when
received with a set of attributes larger than the current 4271 limit=94. =


=20

While we discussed this earlier, the current version of the draft does =
not
have anything regarding it.  Randy indicated he would be replying =
regarding
your long message.=20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:26 PM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Sue,

=20

Please see 1 comment inline [Bruno]

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:42 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:

=20

Thank you for your comments on this topic =96 as I think=20

=20

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this
report.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information on =
the
list.   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the IESG.  =
=20

=20

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a =
requirement
and only moved to not specifying it when we could not quickly pass this
through WG LC.=20

=20

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.
As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles an BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for the
correction of:=20

=20

=93The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but =
to BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.=94

=20

=20

As to your comment:=20

=20

=93Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using =
existing BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.=94

=20

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to
have the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP
message limit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.

[Bruno] I understand the BGP-LS issue and more generally I support =
removing
such limitation even before we hit it. But IMHO a bigger issue is the
potential impact in networks supporting many services and users such as =
the
Internet and VPN ones. The document is applicable to all AFI/SAFI so =
I=92d
like the document to define how such routes would be handled when =
received
with a set of attributes larger than the current 4271 limit and having =
to be
sent to speakers not supporting Extend Message.. One possible option may =
be
to treat as withdraw, possibly on RR/over IBGP (i.e., within the AS) =
which
would translates in routing inconsistencies within the AS. Another =
option
would be to drop some attributes or some attribute content (which ones).
There are probably other reasons. As of today the behavior is undefined =
and
the document does not even refer to this problem. I=92m sorry to say =
that is
not good enough for me. Again is not even about error handling, but =
regular
behavior of this specification.

=20

Thanks

Cheers,

--Bruno

=20

=20

I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the =
text.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a
niche use case. So I don=92t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=A7 1

=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=94

=20

I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =93an attribute which can not be
decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

---

=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension? That =
they
don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

=20

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the
availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for
the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for
the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=A78

=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to
a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
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recu
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electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
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As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Good catch on this point. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
&#8217;d like the document to define how such routes would be handled =
when received with a set of attributes larger than the current 4271 =
limit&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>W=
hile we discussed this earlier, the current version of the draft does =
not have anything regarding it. =A0Randy indicated he would be replying =
regarding your long message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
usan Hares </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 =
12:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease see 1 comment inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January =
29, 2019 5:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Bruno:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Thank you for your comments on this topic &#8211; as =
I think <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full =
implementations of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which =
is not listed in this report. &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope those implementers will =
volunteer this information on the list. &nbsp;&nbsp;If not, I will share =
this information with Alvaro and the IESG.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>The SIDR work did define =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement and only moved to not =
specifying it when we could not quickly pass this through WG LC. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out =
of BGP message space.&nbsp; As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was =
hoping this handles an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 =
bytes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you for the correction of: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&#8220;The issue is not specific to attributes bigger =
than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each =
attribute.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>As to =
your comment: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This problem has =
been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago. &nbsp;&nbsp;As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases. &nbsp;It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>[=
Bruno] I understand the BGP-LS issue and more generally I support =
removing such limitation even before we hit it. But IMHO a bigger issue =
is the potential impact in networks supporting many services and users =
such as the Internet and VPN ones. The document is applicable to all =
AFI/SAFI so I&#8217;d like the document to define how such routes would =
be handled when received with a set of attributes larger than the =
current 4271 limit and having to be sent to speakers not supporting =
Extend Message.. One possible option may be to treat as withdraw, =
possibly on RR/over IBGP (i.e., within the AS) which would translates in =
routing inconsistencies within the AS. Another option would be to drop =
some attributes or some attribute content (which ones). There are =
probably other reasons. As of today the behavior is undefined and the =
document does not even refer to this problem. I&#8217;m sorry to say =
that is not good enough for me. Again is not even about error handling, =
but regular behavior of this specification.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>C=
heers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I hope the authors =
will comment on the changes you suggested to the text. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Cheers, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Susan Hares <span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last =
Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 says =
&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP messages =
bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a =
received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr =
[mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan =
Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre =
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:=20

=20

I=92m fine with =93would benefit from=94 replacement for need.   I=92m =
glad the
specification of a BGP message longer than 4096 bytes is not blocking =
BGP-LS
implementations/deployments today.   Since deployments of some features =
like
a longer BGP message may take 3-5 years, BGP-LS would benefit from a =
longer
message being define now (smile). =20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:09 PM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Sue,

=20

Thanks for the clarification on this.

Regarding the choice of word, I=92m definitely not the reference for =
fine
understanding of English nuances. That being said,  Merriam-Webster =
seems to
define =93need=94 as =93require=94.  I feel like the use of =93would =
benefit from=94 may
be clearer for everyone.

 <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive> transitive verb

: to be in need of :  =
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/require>
require=20

=20

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/need

=20

Regarding the reality of the need, if BGP-LS implementations need =
Extended
Message support, they are free to implement it today, yesterday or a few
years ago. I=92ll take the risk of using an English idiom =93the proof =
of the
pudding is in the eating=94. I don=92t see IETF/IDR as blocking the
implementations.

=20

Cheers,

--Bruno

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:52 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:=20

=20

On:=20

=93BGP-LS needs extended message support=94 probably needs to be =
refined=94 =96 I
can live with.=20

=20

Perhaps you define the word =93needs=94 different that I do.   If =
BGP=3DLS
requires the use of extended-messages to work, then =93requires=94 is =
the word.
If extended-messages will provide better support the growing number of
BGP-LS attributes, then =93need=94 is to better support. =20

=20

If you wish to pick a better word for its marketing value, then pick a =
word.
The important part is the reality of the packing of an increasing number =
of
BGP-LS NLRIs and attributes into the BGP message.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55 AM
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20

=20

The solution to:

*	BGP-LS needs extended message support
*	No one has implemented BGP extended message support

=85would appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP =
extended
message support.

=20

+1

Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of =
BGP
extended message, the statement =93=95     BGP-LS needs extended message
support=94 probably needs to be refined.

--Bruno

=20

Then everyone would be happy.

=20

Adrian

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
Here
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a
niche use case. So I don=92t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=A7 1

=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to
introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=94

=20

I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =93an attribute which can not be
decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

---

=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension? That =
they
don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of
4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of
error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the
availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for
the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for
the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=A78

=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a
BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to
a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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recu
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ou
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou
falsifie. Merci.
=20
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If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I&#8217;m fine with &#8220;<b><i>would benefit from&#8221;</i></b> =
replacement for need. =A0=A0I&#8217;m glad the specification of a BGP =
message longer than 4096 bytes is not blocking BGP-LS =
implementations/deployments today.=A0=A0 Since deployments of some =
features like a longer BGP message may take 3-5 years, BGP-LS =
<b><i>would benefit from</i></b> a longer message being define now =
(smile). =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 =
12:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks for the clarification on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>R=
egarding the choice of word, I&#8217;m definitely not the reference for =
fine understanding of English nuances. That being said,&nbsp; =
Merriam-Webster seems to define &#8220;need&#8221; as =
&#8220;require&#8221;. &nbsp;I feel like the use of &#8220;would benefit =
from&#8221; may be clearer for everyone.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DFR><a =
href=3D"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transitive"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>transitive verb</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b>: </b>to be in need of =
<b>: </b><span lang=3DFR><a =
href=3D"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/require"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>require</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
a =
href=3D"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/need">https://www.merr=
iam-webster.com/dictionary/need</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>R=
egarding the reality of the need, if BGP-LS implementations need =
Extended Message support, they are free to implement it today, yesterday =
or a few years ago. I&#8217;ll take the risk of using an English idiom =
&#8220;the proof of the pudding is in the eating&#8221;. I don&#8217;t =
see IETF/IDR as blocking the implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>C=
heers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 5:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; =
adrian@olddog.co.uk<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>On: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8220;BGP-LS needs extended message support&#8221; probably needs to =
be refined&#8221; &#8211; I can live with. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Perhaps you define the word &#8220;needs&#8221; different that I =
do.&nbsp; &nbsp;If BGP=3DLS requires the use of extended-messages to =
work, then &#8220;requires&#8221; is the word.&nbsp; If =
extended-messages will provide better support the growing number of =
BGP-LS attributes, then &#8220;need&#8221; is to better support.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If you wish to pick a better word for its marketing value, then pick =
a word. &nbsp;&nbsp;The important part is the reality of the packing of =
an increasing number of BGP-LS NLRIs and attributes into the BGP =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Susan Hares'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Adrian =
Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The =
solution to:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0in' =
type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGP-LS =
needs extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>No one has =
implemented BGP extended message support<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&#8230;woul=
d appear to be to have implementations of BGP-LS implement BGP extended =
message support.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>+1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Also, if there are implementations of BGP-LS but no implementation of =
</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BGP extended message, the statement =
&#8220;&#8226;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP-LS needs extended message =
support&#8221; probably needs to be refined.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--Bruno</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Then =
everyone would be happy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Adrian<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 says =
&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by &#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? That they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.<span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP messages =
bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a =
received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre =
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01D4B7D2.16270C60--


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From: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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--_000_F767372936C3441C87AEBA8C63EF3157nistgov_--


From nobody Tue Jan 29 12:42:02 2019
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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 15:40:55 -0500
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Call for implementation information on drafts past WG LC
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Sue,

On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 12:58:14PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 08:48:20AM -0500, Susan Hares wrote:
> > The IDR chairs would like to start the new year by shipping IDR drafts past
> > WG LC to the IESG for publication.  We need your help with information on
> > implementations  on the following: 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ..         draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria  
> 
> I will try to get you commentary on what level of conformance Juniper has
> with this draft within the next two weeks.

Compliance statements for these types of documents are funny.  Both of the
additional conditions in the document are MAYs and thus everyone is
compliant. :-)

That said, Juniper implements the 3.1 check against whether a nexthop is
resolvable in a given data plane protocol; e.g. MPLS.  This may be adjusted
using configuration.  (Our "resolution ribs" feature.)

Juniper implements the 3.2 path availability check in several variations,
but not all.  For example, BFD may be used to protect MPLS generated
nexthops for LDP and RSVP.  For IP nexthops distributed via an IGP, the IGP
may be protected using BFD.

> > 
> > ..         draft-ietf-idr-rtc-no-rt-10.txt
> 
> Juniper expects to have a release containing rtc-no-rt in a release targeted
> for shipment early this year.
> 
> > ..         draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-10.txt 

It is also worth noting that Juniper has partial support for the
tunnel-encaps draft, particularly in support of specific SR-TE applications.
We are not fully compliant.

> > 
> > ..         draft-ietf-bgp-optimal-route-reflection-17.txt  
> 
> Juniper is one of the implementors of ORR.
> 
> -- Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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From: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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--_000_C8E93D6603794855842EFDA99C6B42B9nistgov_--


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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-capabilities-registry-change-03.txt
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In the interest of potentially wrapping this up around IETF-104, I'd like to
propose this document is ready for last call.

-- Jeff

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 09:35:32AM -0800, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
> 
>         Title           : Revision to Capability Codes Registration Procedures
>         Author          : John Scudder
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-capabilities-registry-change-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 5
> 	Date            : 2018-11-15
> 
> Abstract:
>    This document updates RFC 5492 by making a change to the registration
>    procedures for BGP Capability Codes.  Specifically, the range
>    formerly designated "Reserved for Private Use" is divided into three
>    new ranges, respectively designated as "First Come First Served",
>    "Experimental" and "Reserved".


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Oliver:=20

=20

Would you look at the rest of the web page and let me know if there is =
anything else I should adjust.=20

=20

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

=20

Please send me a contact for the ExaBGP BGP implementation?  I will try =
to get an updated form.=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

From: Borchert, Oliver (Fed) [mailto:oliver.borchert@nist.gov]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 3:42 PM
To: Susan Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

In hindsight it might be better to update the complete new statement in =
5a from=20

=20


Does not send Extended Message capability=20

No=20

No=20

Yes=20

Into=20


Does send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

No=20

=20

It is easier to understand and is directly to the point without the =
double negation issue.

=20

ExaBGP should be re-confirmed because I could imagine the same mistake =
happened there as well.

=20

Oliver

=20

From: Oliver Borchert <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 3:34 PM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
<bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Oliver Borchert <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno and Susan,

=20

I cannot speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx.

I believe when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and overlooked the =
=E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes send Extended =
Message Capability=E2=80=9D.

Therefore the implementation report for section 5a must be corrected =
from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for both BGPSEC-IO =
and QuaggaSRx

=20

BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended message capability if =
so configured.

I just checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted the relevant =
output generated by BGPSEC-IO,

=20

Oliver

=20

-----  output of BGPSEC-IO  -------

=20

./bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx=20

Starting bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...

Send:  (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to QuaggaSRx)=20

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

     |  +--Type: Capability (2)

     |  +--Length: 2

     |  +--Capability: Extended message support capability

     |     +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

     |     +--Length: 0

=E2=80=A6

=20

Received: (Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received by BGPSEC-IO)

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

        +--Type: Capability (2)

        +--Length: 2

        +--Capability: Extended message support capability

           +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

           +--Length: 0

BGP-receiver thread created!

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:

=20

Thank you for your comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think=20

=20

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information =
on the list.   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the =
IESG.  =20

=20

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a =
requirement and only moved to not specifying it when we could not =
quickly pass this through WG LC.=20

=20

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.  As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles =
an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for =
the correction of:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CThe issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 =
octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each attribute.=E2=80=9D

=20

=20

As to your comment:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CWhy is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using =
existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could =
exceed the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to =
behave in this case? This should be described in this specification. =
Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is =
behaving as specified.=E2=80=9D

=20

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to =
have the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.=20

=20

I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the =
text.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 =
(core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&s=
data=3DhXBbOXqwvXqtCV%2B9PbP%2F7IE6WJjWUA2boM33Kds%2Bgh4%3D&reserved=3D0>=
  says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the above is that none of the reported implementations sends the =
capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is updating =
RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I =
don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s =
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=C2=A7 1

=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8=
a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636843769859165043&sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4Tz%2FNnBPfdH7iDf=
0%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =
=E2=80=9C

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23section-1&da=
ta=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d=
6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&sdata=
=3DYVWHAFbYRjG%2FlWPbpw2rW8uGQ6QXss3dufm%2FqHgRvDw%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

=20

[ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8=
a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636843769859165043&sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4Tz%2FNnBPfdH7iDf=
0%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC 8205 (thanks =
for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any reference =
to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=C2=A74

=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability =
MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=E2=80=9D

=20

Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D

=20

I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =E2=80=9Can attribute which can not =
be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D

=20

---

=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and =
implementers are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? =
That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is =
not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.

=20

=20

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=C2=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=C2=A78

=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =C2=BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be =
sent to a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat=
racker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2=
ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&sdata=3DokjT=
eLe6DcTaRV2USy2My6HXDRynupmXlB0i7gUwynA%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&s=
data=3DPoRyFofs04%2FC%2F%2FgbXL2zyED3SW6MrESpHiIE2e7p4cA%3D&reserved=3D0>=
 =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running =
short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by =
BGP-LS features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
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=20
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Oliver: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Would you look at the rest of the web page and let me know if there =
is anything else I should adjust. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-implementations</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Please send me a contact for the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ExaBGP BGP =
implementation?=C2=A0 I will try to get an updated form. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Sue Hares =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed) [mailto:oliver.borchert@nist.gov] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 3:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In =
hindsight it might be better to update the complete new statement in 5a =
from <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Does =
not send</b> Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>No =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>No <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Into =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Does =
send</b> Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>No =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>It is =
easier to understand and is directly to the point without the double =
negation issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>ExaBGP =
should be re-confirmed because I could imagine the same mistake happened =
there as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Oliver<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Oliver Borchert =
&lt;oliver.borchert@nist.gov&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 at 3:34 PM<br><b>To: </b>Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;, =
&quot;bruno.decraene@orange.com&quot; &lt;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;, =
Oliver Borchert &lt;oliver.borchert@nist.gov&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>&quot;idr@ietf.org&quot; &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Bruno and =
Susan,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I cannot =
speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I believe =
when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and overlooked the =
=E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes send Extended =
Message Capability=E2=80=9D.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Therefore =
the implementation report for section 5a must be corrected from =
=E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for both BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGPSEC-IO =
and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended message capability if so =
configured.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I just =
checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted the relevant output =
generated by BGPSEC-IO,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Oliver</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>-----&nbsp;=
 output of BGPSEC-IO&nbsp; -------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>./bgpsecio =
-f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Starting =
bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Send:&nbsp;=
 (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to QuaggaSRx) =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>OPEN =
Message</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; =
+--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=A6</=
span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: Capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Type: Capability (2)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Length: 2</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Capability: Extended message support =
capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: Extended message =
support capability (6)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: =
0</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=A6</=
span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Received: =
(Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received by =
BGPSEC-IO)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>OPEN =
Message</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; =
+--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=A6</=
span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: Capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: Capability =
(2)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: 2</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Capability: Extended message support =
capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: Extended =
message support capability (6)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: =
0</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGP-receive=
r thread created!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
on behalf of Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM<br><b>To: =
</b>&quot;bruno.decraene@orange.com&quot; =
&lt;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;idr@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on =
Extened Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Bruno:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>Thank =
you for your comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>I did =
receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report. &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope those implementers will volunteer this =
information on the list. &nbsp;&nbsp;If not, I will share this =
information with Alvaro and the IESG.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>The =
SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement =
and only moved to not specifying it when we could not quickly pass this =
through WG LC. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>The =
real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.&nbsp; As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this =
handles an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Thank you for the correction of: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=E2=80=9CThe issue is not specific to attributes =
bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than =
4096, irrespective of the size of each =
attribute.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>As to =
your comment: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9CWhy is =
this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP =
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is =
not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This problem has =
been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago. &nbsp;&nbsp;As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases. &nbsp;It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I hope the authors =
will comment on the changes you suggested to the text. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Cheers, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last =
Call on Extened Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in ..75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b=
1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769=
859165043&amp;sdata=3DhXBbOXqwvXqtCV%2B9PbP%2F7IE6WJjWUA2boM33Kds%2Bgh4%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bg=
p-extended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring =
the IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable =
implementations.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A7 =
1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&amp;sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4T=
z%2FNnBPfdH7iDf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9C</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23secti=
on-1&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637=
f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C6368437698591=
65043&amp;sdata=3DYVWHAFbYRjG%2FlWPbpw2rW8uGQ6QXss3dufm%2FqHgRvDw%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&amp;sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4T=
z%2FNnBPfdH7iDf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A74</span=
><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A73 says =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A peer which =
does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=9D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
..e.g.</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OLD: </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=80=9C</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications =
generating information which might be =
encapsulated</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by =E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol =
developers and implementers are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? That they =
don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=C2=
=A74</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C2=A78</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying =
security issues&nbsp;=C2=BB</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first =
specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it =
needs to be sent to a received not supporting this =
extension.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr =
[mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan =
Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&a=
mp;sdata=3DokjTeLe6DcTaRV2USy2My6HXDRynupmXlB0i7gUwynA%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b=
1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769=
859321289&amp;sdata=3DPoRyFofs04%2FC%2F%2FgbXL2zyED3SW6MrESpHiIE2e7p4cA%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, exploites =
ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, =
veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>If you have received this =
email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, =
Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR>Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01D4B87F.425DADE0--


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 21:44:47 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] BGP-LS TLV Error Conditions
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--000000000000a5fd630580b3d1a7
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[Speaking as a WG participant.]

Dear idr WG:

tl;dr I think that rfc7752 doesn't do a good job in specifying actions
resulting from error conditions related to the use of TLVs.


As you all know, rfc7752 defines a set of TLVs to be used in describing the
different Link-State NLRI types, or in the BGP-LS Attribute.

The use of these TLVs is specific to the reason they were created, and in
most cases that use is very clear; for example, the "Local Node Descriptors
TLV contains Node Descriptors for the node anchoring the local end of the
link.  This is a mandatory TLV in all three types of NLRIs (node, link, and
prefix)."  However, it is not clear what should happen if the Local Node
Descriptors TLV (for example [*]) is present in the BGP-LS Attribute.

I think that the easy answer is that it should simply be ignored...silently
ignored.  But the text doesn't say what to do...at least I didn't find it
anywhere.

=C2=A73.1 (TLV Format) offers the following: "Unrecognized types MUST be
preserved and propagated."  The Local Node Descriptors TLV is not really
"unrecognized", but I can imagine that an implementation can interpret it
that way.  IOW, if the Local Node Descriptors TLV was received in the
BGP-LS Attribute then it would not be processed, but it would be
propagated...which is akin to silently ignored...

Is this the right interpretation: should "unrecognized" be interpreted also
as "not belonging here"?  Are there cases where it is not as clear to
determine what should be "unrecognized"?


Personally, I find the interpretation above to be a stretch, and not all
TLV descriptions are as specific as the one for the Local Node Descriptors
TLV, which "is a mandatory TLV in all three types of NLRIs".  Other text
say things like: "Node attribute TLVs are the TLVs that may be encoded in
the BGP-LS attribute with a Node NLRI"..."following Link Attribute TLVs are
valid in the BGP-LS attribute with a Link NLRI" (are others not valid?)...


Other parts of rfc7752 also talk about how to handle TLVs, but I think they
also paint an incomplete picture:

- =C2=A73.1 also says: "In order to compare NLRIs with unknown TLVs, all TL=
Vs
MUST be ordered in ascending order by TLV Type.  If there are more TLVs of
the same type, then the TLVs MUST be ordered in ascending order of the TLV
value..."   I'm assuming that "unknown" is the same as "unrecognized"...
This text doesn't talk about what should be done if the ordering is not
ascending...should the TLVs be ignored?  "treat-as-withdraw" [rfc7606]?

- =C2=A73.2.1.4 (Node Descriptor Sub-TLVs) has similar ordering requirement=
s for
sub-TLVs...

- =C2=A76.2.2 (Fault Management) talks about syntactic checks that can lead=
 to
"attribute discard", but it says nothing about finding "unrecognized" or
unordered TLVs.


In summary, I think that rfc7752 could use a refresh (or another document
Updating it) related to the handling of TLVs.  Yes, we should have been
clearer when rfc7752 was published, but we weren't. :-(

I'm hoping that implementers, who should have already made decisions on
these topics, can take on this work.  Any volunteers?  [Personally, I
haven't coded an implementation, but would be willing to help if needed.]

Thanks!

Alvaro.

[*] Just using the Local Node Descriptors TLV to illustrate...

--000000000000a5fd630580b3d1a7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>[Speaking as a WG particip=
ant.]</div><div><br></div><div>Dear idr WG:</div><div><br></div><div>tl;dr =
I think that rfc7752 doesn&#39;t do a good job in specifying actions result=
ing from error conditions related to the use of TLVs.</div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div>As you all know, rfc7752 defines a set of TLVs to be use=
d in describing the different Link-State NLRI types, or in the BGP-LS Attri=
bute.</div><div><br></div><div>The use of these TLVs is specific to the rea=
son they were created, and in most cases that use is very clear; for exampl=
e, the &quot;Local Node Descriptors TLV contains Node Descriptors for the n=
ode anchoring the local end of the link.=C2=A0 This is a mandatory TLV in a=
ll three types of NLRIs (node, link, and prefix).&quot; =C2=A0However, it i=
s not clear what should happen if the Local Node Descriptors TLV (for examp=
le [*]) is present in the BGP-LS Attribute.</div><div><br></div><div>I thin=
k that the easy answer is that it should simply be ignored...silently ignor=
ed.=C2=A0 But the text doesn&#39;t say what to do...at least I didn&#39;t f=
ind it anywhere.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A73.1 (TLV Format) offers the=
 following: &quot;Unrecognized types MUST be preserved and propagated.&quot=
; =C2=A0The Local Node Descriptors TLV is not really &quot;unrecognized&quo=
t;, but I can imagine that an implementation can interpret it that way.=C2=
=A0 IOW, if the Local Node Descriptors TLV was received in the BGP-LS Attri=
bute then it would not be processed, but it would be propagated...which is =
akin to silently ignored...</div><div><br></div><div>Is this the right inte=
rpretation: should &quot;unrecognized&quot; be interpreted also as &quot;no=
t belonging here&quot;?=C2=A0 Are there cases where it is not as clear to d=
etermine what should be &quot;unrecognized&quot;?</div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>Personally, I find the interpretation above to be a stretch,=
 and not all TLV descriptions are as specific as the one for the Local Node=
 Descriptors TLV, which &quot;is a mandatory TLV in all three types of NLRI=
s&quot;.=C2=A0 Other text say things like: &quot;Node attribute TLVs are th=
e TLVs that may be encoded in the BGP-LS attribute with a Node NLRI&quot;..=
.&quot;following Link Attribute TLVs are valid in the BGP-LS attribute with=
 a Link NLRI&quot; (are others not valid?)...</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Other parts of rfc7752 also talk about how to handle TLVs, but I=
 think they also paint an incomplete picture:</div><div><br></div><div>- =
=C2=A73.1 also says: &quot;In order to compare NLRIs with unknown TLVs, all=
 TLVs MUST be ordered in ascending order by TLV Type.=C2=A0 If there are mo=
re TLVs of the same type, then the TLVs MUST be ordered in ascending order =
of the TLV value...&quot; =C2=A0 I&#39;m assuming that &quot;unknown&quot; =
is the same as &quot;unrecognized&quot;...=C2=A0 This text doesn&#39;t talk=
 about what should be done if the ordering is not ascending...should the TL=
Vs be ignored? =C2=A0&quot;treat-as-withdraw&quot; [rfc7606]?</div><div><br=
></div><div>- =C2=A73.2.1.4 (Node Descriptor Sub-TLVs) has similar ordering=
 requirements for sub-TLVs...</div><div><br></div><div>- =C2=A76.2.2 (Fault=
 Management) talks about syntactic checks that can lead to &quot;attribute =
discard&quot;, but it says nothing about finding &quot;unrecognized&quot; o=
r unordered TLVs.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>In summary, I thi=
nk that rfc7752 could use a refresh (or another document Updating it) relat=
ed to the handling of TLVs.=C2=A0 Yes, we should have been clearer when rfc=
7752 was published, but we weren&#39;t. :-(</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;=
m hoping that implementers, who should have already made decisions on these=
 topics, can take on this work.=C2=A0 Any volunteers? =C2=A0[Personally, I =
haven&#39;t coded an implementation, but would be willing to help if needed=
.]</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>Alvaro.</div><=
div><br></div><div>[*] Just using the Local Node Descriptors TLV to illustr=
ate...</div><div><br></div></body></html>

--000000000000a5fd630580b3d1a7--


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 01:52:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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From: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" <chengli13@huawei.com>
To: "draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>
CC: "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>, Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: Can the Network Address of Next Hop be an IPv4 address of the egress PE?
Thread-Index: AdS5Pf6+A05CkmTOR2SM9j+zirq4nQ==
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:23:22 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] Can the Network Address of Next Hop be an IPv4 address of the egress PE?
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Hi Authors,

I have a question when I read  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-=
srv6-vpn-05#section-3.1 : Network Address of Next Hop =3D IPv6 address of t=
he egress PE.

If the network is a V4/V6 dual stack network, can the Network Address of Ne=
xt Hop be an IPv4 address of the egress PE?

Thanks,
Cheng








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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Authors,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have a question when I read &nbsp;<a href=3D"https=
://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-05#section-3.1">https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn-05#section-3.1</a> : Network Addr=
ess of Next Hop =3D IPv6 address of the egress
 PE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If the network is a V4/V6 dual stack network, can th=
e Network Address of Next Hop be an IPv4 address of the egress PE?<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheng<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <rajiva@cisco.com>
To: "Chengli (Cheng Li)" <chengli13@huawei.com>
CC: "draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org" <draft-dawra-idr-srv6-vpn@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] Can the Network Address of Next Hop be an IPv4 address of the egress PE?
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