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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver \(Fed\)'" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver \(Fed\)'" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/ipYoWc5m8fQ8k2ZqmHCzaAdbaLg>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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JIe, Bruno and Oliver:=20

=20

Thank you for your input.   You are correct that the error handling =
behavior was unclear based on the questions in the chart.   The purpose =
of the chart is to provide other BGP WGs (Bess, SPRING, LSVR) a clear =
indication of changes to the base BGP specification.=20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve reformatted sections 4 and 5 of the chart. =20

=20

To section 4 I=E2=80=99ve added:=20

4c            Does send Extended Message  - with a yes from all =
implementations (based on their email)=20

=20

Section 5, I=E2=80=99ve alter to be:=20

5              Error handing                    =20

5a           Accepts Extended message without receiving=20

             BGP Extended Message Capability [Section 5 paragraph 1 MAY]

                                               =20

5b           If receives Extended Message without BGP extended message =
support,

             follows RFC4271 handling and sends Bad message length =
Notification=20

            [section 5 paragraph 2 MUST]=20

=20

Oliver =E2=80=93 if you would read the current text and let me know the =
updated message.  I believe the answer for all 3 implementations is =
=E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D due to 4b.   Please let me know and I will update =
the information in the chart.=20

=20

To follow-up on Jie=E2=80=99s comments, the text did not accurately =
represent the error handling.   Section 5, paragraph 1 has a =
=E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D modified by a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D, which =
results in simply a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.   For readability, I think =
the =E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D provides useful information  to the =
implementer,  but it cannot be tested accurately when combined with the =
=E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.   =20

=20

Let me give you an example of that:

If the peer did not send a BGP Extended Message capability, and it =
accepts the extended message (with a length of 10,000 bytes), it could =
have a liberal policy of MAY as a default in the implementation.   The =
=E2=80=9Con-wire=E2=80=9D observations cannot tell =E2=80=93 only the =
implementation=E2=80=99s policy (default + configured).   =20

=20

I also broke out the management information away from the specification =
information. =20

=20

Sue Hares =20

=20

From: Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:53 PM
To: Borchert, Oliver (Fed); Susan Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com; =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed)
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi Oliver, Bruno and Sue,

=20

To my understanding, bullet 5/5a/5b in the implementation report is =
corresponding to the second paragraph in section 5 =E2=80=9CError =
Handling=E2=80=9D:

=20

A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended Messages

   capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.  Such

   a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of [RFC4271] if

   it receives an Extended Message.  Similarly, any speaker that treats

   an improper Extended Message as a fatal error, MUST treat it

   similarly.

=20

Thus it is to describe the error handling behavior of an implementation =
version which does not support extended message.=20

=20

While I agree this could be misleading for a report of implementation =
which supports extended message capability, maybe it could be used to =
verify the behavior of an old version which does not support this =
capability?

=20

Best regards,

Jie

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Borchert, Oliver =
(Fed)
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 4:35 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, =
Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno and Susan,

=20

I cannot speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx.

I believe when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and overlooked the =
=E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes send Extended =
Message Capability=E2=80=9D.

Therefore the implementation report for section 5a must be corrected =
from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for both BGPSEC-IO =
and QuaggaSRx

=20

BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended message capability if =
so configured.

I just checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted the relevant =
output generated by BGPSEC-IO,

=20

Oliver

=20

-----  output of BGPSEC-IO  -------

=20

=EF=BB=BF./bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx=20

Starting bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...

Send:  (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to QuaggaSRx)=20

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

     |  +--Type: Capability (2)

     |  +--Length: 2

     |  +--Capability: Extended message support capability

     |     +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

     |     +--Length: 0

=E2=80=A6

=20

Received: (Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received by BGPSEC-IO)

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

        +--Type: Capability (2)

        +--Length: 2

        +--Capability: Extended message support capability

           +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

           +--Length: 0

BGP-receiver thread created!

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:

=20

Thank you for your comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think=20

=20

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information =
on the list.   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the =
IESG.  =20

=20

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a =
requirement and only moved to not specifying it when we could not =
quickly pass this through WG LC.=20

=20

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.  As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles =
an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for =
the correction of:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CThe issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 =
octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each attribute.=E2=80=9D

=20

=20

As to your comment:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CWhy is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using =
existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could =
exceed the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to =
behave in this case? This should be described in this specification. =
Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is =
behaving as specified.=E2=80=9D

=20

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to =
have the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.=20

=20

I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the =
text.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 =
(core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&s=
data=3DhXBbOXqwvXqtCV%2B9PbP%2F7IE6WJjWUA2boM33Kds%2Bgh4%3D&reserved=3D0>=
  says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the above is that none of the reported implementations sends the =
capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is updating =
RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I =
don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s =
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=C2=A7 1

=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8=
a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636843769859165043&sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4Tz%2FNnBPfdH7iDf=
0%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =
=E2=80=9C

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23section-1&da=
ta=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d=
6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&sdata=
=3DYVWHAFbYRjG%2FlWPbpw2rW8uGQ6QXss3dufm%2FqHgRvDw%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

=20

[ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8=
a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636843769859165043&sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4Tz%2FNnBPfdH7iDf=
0%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC 8205 (thanks =
for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any reference =
to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=C2=A74

=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability =
MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=E2=80=9D

=20

Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D

=20

I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =E2=80=9Can attribute which can not =
be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D

=20

---

=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and =
implementers are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? =
That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is =
not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.

=20

=20

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=C2=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=C2=A78

=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =C2=BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be =
sent to a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat=
racker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2=
ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&sdata=3DokjT=
eLe6DcTaRV2USy2My6HXDRynupmXlB0i7gUwynA%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&s=
data=3DPoRyFofs04%2FC%2F%2FgbXL2zyED3SW6MrESpHiIE2e7p4cA%3D&reserved=3D0>=
 =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running =
short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by =
BGP-LS features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
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=20
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>JIe, Bruno and Oliver: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for your input.=C2=A0=C2=A0 You are correct that the error =
handling behavior was unclear based on the questions in the chart. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0The purpose of the chart is to provide other BGP WGs (Bess, =
SPRING, LSVR) a clear indication of changes to the base BGP =
specification. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I=E2=80=99ve reformatted sections 4 and 5 of the chart.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To section 4 I=E2=80=99ve added: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>4c=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Does send Extended Message =C2=A0- with a yes from all implementations =
(based on their email) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Section 5, I=E2=80=99ve alter to be: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Error =
handing=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5a=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Accepts Extended message without receiving <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0BGP Extended Message Capability [Section 5 paragraph 1 =
MAY]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If =
receives Extended Message without BGP extended message =
support,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0follows RFC4271 handling and sends Bad message length Notification =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
[section 5 paragraph 2 MUST] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Oliver =E2=80=93 if you would read the current text and let me know =
the updated message. =C2=A0I believe the answer for all 3 =
implementations is =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D due to 4b.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please =
let me know and I will update the information in the chart. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To follow-up on Jie=E2=80=99s comments, the text did not accurately =
represent the error handling.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 5, paragraph 1 has a =
=E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D modified by a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D, which =
results in simply a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 =C2=A0For readability, =
I think the =E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D provides useful =
information=C2=A0 to the implementer, =C2=A0but it cannot be tested =
accurately when combined with the =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Let me give you an example of that:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the peer did not send a BGP Extended Message capability, and it =
accepts the extended message (with a length of 10,000 bytes), it could =
have a liberal policy of MAY as a default in the implementation. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0The =E2=80=9Con-wire=E2=80=9D observations cannot tell =
=E2=80=93 only the implementation=E2=80=99s policy (default + =
configured).=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also broke out the management information away from the =
specification information.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
January 30, 2019 8:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> Borchert, Oliver (Fed); Susan =
Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi Oliver, Bruno and =
Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>To my understanding, bullet 5/5a/5b in the =
implementation report is corresponding to the second paragraph in =
section 5 =E2=80=9CError Handling=E2=80=9D:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:5.25pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A BGP speaker that does not advertise the =
BGP Extended Messages<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; capability might also =
genuinely not support Extended Messages.&nbsp; =
Such<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a speaker MUST follow the =
error handling procedures of [RFC4271] if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; it receives an Extended =
Message.&nbsp; Similarly, any speaker that =
treats<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; an improper Extended Message =
as a fatal error, MUST treat it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
similarly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thus it is to describe the error handling =
behavior of an implementation version which does not support extended =
message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>While I agree this could be misleading for =
a report of implementation which supports extended message capability, =
maybe it could be used to verify the behavior of an old version which =
does not support this capability?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Jie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'> Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2019 =
4:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, Oliver (Fed) =
&lt;oliver.borchert@nist.gov&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Bruno and Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>I cannot speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for =
BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>I believe when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and =
overlooked the =E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes =
send Extended Message Capability=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Therefore the implementation report for section 5a must =
be corrected from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for =
both BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended =
message capability if so configured.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>I just checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted =
the relevant output generated by BGPSEC-IO,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Oliver<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>-----&nbsp; output of BGPSEC-IO&nbsp; =
-------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=EF=BB=BF./bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Starting bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Send:&nbsp; (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to =
QuaggaSRx) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>OPEN Message<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; +--marker: =
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: =
Capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Type: Capability =
(2)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Length: =
2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Capability: Extended =
message support capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--Type: Extended message support capability (6)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--Length: 0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Received: (Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received =
by BGPSEC-IO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>OPEN Message<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; +--marker: =
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: =
Capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: =
Capability (2)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: =
2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--Capability: Extended message support =
capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; +--Type: Extended message support capability =
(6)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; +--Length: 0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>BGP-receiver thread created!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Bruno:</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thank you for your =
comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>I did receive reports =
privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report. &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope those implementers will volunteer this =
information on the list. &nbsp;&nbsp;If not, I will share this =
information with Alvaro and the IESG.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The SIDR work did define =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement and only moved to not =
specifying it when we could not quickly pass this through WG LC. =
</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The real needs are a =
growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message space.&nbsp; As my =
previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles an BGP =
message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you =
for the correction of: </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9CThe issue is not =
specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose =
length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each =
attribute.=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>As to your comment: =
</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9CWhy is this limited to future =
specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, =
attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octets. How =
does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This should be =
described in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error =
handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>This problem has been true for years, =
and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago. &nbsp;&nbsp;As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases. &nbsp;It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues. </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>I hope the authors will comment on the =
changes you suggested to the text. </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Cheers, </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Susan Hares </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Hi WG,</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Please find below some comments.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is =
ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating =
RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this =
draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp; =
</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><table =
class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><tr><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in =
..75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b=
1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769=
859165043&amp;sdata=3DhXBbOXqwvXqtCV%2B9PbP%2F7IE6WJjWUA2boM33Kds%2Bgh4%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bg=
p-extended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but =
my reading of the above is that none of the reported implementations =
sends the capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is updating =
RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I =
don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s =
usual two interoperable implementations.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=C2=A7 1</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support =
newer AFI/SAFIs and</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., =
[</span><span lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&amp;sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4T=
z%2FNnBPfdH7iDf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>]), there is</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need to extend the =
maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23secti=
on-1&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637=
f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C6368437698591=
65043&amp;sdata=3DYVWHAFbYRjG%2FlWPbpw2rW8uGQ6QXss3dufm%2FqHgRvDw%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a></span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>[</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&amp;sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4T=
z%2FNnBPfdH7iDf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It =
has removed the normative/any reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Can we have an update on this?</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?</span></span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=C2=A74</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A peer which does not advertise this =
capability MUST NOT send BGP</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP =
Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be =
aligned with the above ..e.g.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>OLD: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A BGP speaker</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages =
to its peer only if it has received the</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message =
Capability from that peer.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>NEW:</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A BGP speaker</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages =
to its peer only if it has sent and received the</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message =
Capability to and from that peer.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating =
information which might be encapsulated</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP messages MUST =
limit the size of their payload to take the</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum message size into =
account.=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined =
here. If there is none, I would suggest to remove this =
sentence</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, =
in the normal case, propagate throughout the</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and =
there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the =
Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended =
Message is a likely path to routing failure.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger =
than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each attribute.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Please elaborate on what you mean by =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>---</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9C&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED =
that BGP protocol developers and implementers are</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative in their =
application and use of Extended Messages.=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use =
this extension? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO =
BE SPECIFIED_XX?</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>---</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; Future protocol specifications =
will need to describe how to handle</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only =
accommodate 4096 octet messages.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, =
using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one =
could exceed the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed =
to behave in this case? This should be described in this specification. =
Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Depending on the above specification, a =
section describing the operational consequences in a network (such as =
the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. =
Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of =
such network, or (extended) community (such as Route Targets) been =
removed. Both having significant consequences on the availability =
provided by the network.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>---</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=C2=A74</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>OLD: The Extended Message Capability =
only applies to all messages except for the OPEN message. </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Probably</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>NEW: The Extended Message Capability =
applies to all message types except for the OPEN message (type 1). =
</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=C2=A78</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not =
change BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=C2=BB</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 =
octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting =
this extension.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Nits:</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>OLD&nbsp;: to reduce =
compexity</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>NEW&nbsp;: to reduce =
complexity</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thanks,</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>--Bruno</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message Support</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message =
Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can =
access the draft at: </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&a=
mp;sdata=3DokjTeLe6DcTaRV2USy2My6HXDRynupmXlB0i7gUwynA%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The authors should indicate whether they know =
of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; =
implementation data at: </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b=
1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769=
859321289&amp;sdata=3DPoRyFofs04%2FC%2F%2FgbXL2zyED3SW6MrESpHiIE2e7p4cA%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The draft provides a means for expanding the =
BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; =
BGP message space is running short for all of the potential attributes =
or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to =
the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>As you comment on the draft, please consider =
if: a) the technology is mature, b) the additional space in a BGP =
message would be helpful for those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the =
specification is ready for publication.&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) </span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>_______________________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
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'>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
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'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
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'>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
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'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
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'>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
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'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>Thank you.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
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From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <jheitz@cisco.com>
To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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--_000_ba5ddfd47a7c42db8e3ad1fba72fd18aXCHALN014ciscocom_--


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/VegrNaTfVogqQp7paH6RAJZjX7E>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Jakob:

=20

Thanks for mentioning the correct information the BGPSec as far as the =
specifications.  Whether or not the RSA-2048 would have been useful to =
BGPSec, is left for the OPS group handling SIDR deployment. =20

=20

The focus of this discussion is to remove any future obstacles to the =
use of BGP-LS attributes/NLRI.  Two potential limits exist:  a) message =
size (greater than 4096) and b) error handling.=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 3:14 PM
To: Dongjie (Jimmy); Susan Hares; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

BGPSec dropped the requirement for extended messages because the

signature was changed from RSA-2048 (256 byte sig) to ECDSA P-256 (64 =
byte sig).

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidr/LRHPuO5MF0u-vWuhNAVeVN_8fIU

=20

There is no mention of extended messages in =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8205

All mention of it was struck out in:

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol-23.=
txt

=20

Regards,

Jakob.

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: Friday, February 1, 2019 10:45 PM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' =
<oliver.borchert=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' =
<oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi Sue,=20

=20

Thanks for updating the implementation report.=20

=20

My understanding was that bullet 4 was to cover the behavior of section =
5 paragraph 1, bullet 5 was to cover the behavior of section 5 paragraph =
2.

=20

But after rereading section 5, I realize that both paragraph 1 and 2 are =
talking about the behavior of a BGP speaker which does not advertise the =
extended message capability to its peer, so perhaps bullets 4 and 5 in =
the implementation report could be merged as below:=20

=20

4. When receives an extended message without advertising the BGP =
Extended Message Capability to this peer (Error Handling).

4a. Accepts the extended message if the BGP speaker is able to process =
extended message (but was configured not to advertise the capability)   =
[Section 5, paragraph 1 MAY]

4b. Does not accept the extended message, follows RFC4271 handling and =
sends Bad Message Length Notification [Section 5, paragraph 1 SHOULD =
NOT, and paragraph 2 MUST)

=20

Hope this helps to reduce the confusion.

=20

Best regards,

Jie

=20

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2019 11:03 PM
To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' =
<oliver.borchert=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' =
<oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

JIe, Bruno and Oliver:=20

=20

Thank you for your input.   You are correct that the error handling =
behavior was unclear based on the questions in the chart.   The purpose =
of the chart is to provide other BGP WGs (Bess, SPRING, LSVR) a clear =
indication of changes to the base BGP specification.=20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve reformatted sections 4 and 5 of the chart. =20

=20

To section 4 I=E2=80=99ve added:=20

4c            Does send Extended Message  - with a yes from all =
implementations (based on their email)=20

=20

Section 5, I=E2=80=99ve alter to be:=20

5              Error handing                    =20

5a           Accepts Extended message without receiving=20

             BGP Extended Message Capability [Section 5 paragraph 1 MAY]

                                               =20

5b           If receives Extended Message without BGP extended message =
support,

             follows RFC4271 handling and sends Bad message length =
Notification=20

            [section 5 paragraph 2 MUST]=20

=20

Oliver =E2=80=93 if you would read the current text and let me know the =
updated message.  I believe the answer for all 3 implementations is =
=E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D due to 4b.   Please let me know and I will update =
the information in the chart.=20

=20

To follow-up on Jie=E2=80=99s comments, the text did not accurately =
represent the error handling.   Section 5, paragraph 1 has a =
=E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D modified by a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D, which =
results in simply a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.   For readability, I think =
the =E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D provides useful information  to the =
implementer,  but it cannot be tested accurately when combined with the =
=E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.   =20

=20

Let me give you an example of that:

If the peer did not send a BGP Extended Message capability, and it =
accepts the extended message (with a length of 10,000 bytes), it could =
have a liberal policy of MAY as a default in the implementation.   The =
=E2=80=9Con-wire=E2=80=9D observations cannot tell =E2=80=93 only the =
implementation=E2=80=99s policy (default + configured).   =20

=20

I also broke out the management information away from the specification =
information. =20

=20

Sue Hares =20

=20

From: Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:53 PM
To: Borchert, Oliver (Fed); Susan Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com; =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed)
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi Oliver, Bruno and Sue,

=20

To my understanding, bullet 5/5a/5b in the implementation report is =
corresponding to the second paragraph in section 5 =E2=80=9CError =
Handling=E2=80=9D:

=20

A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended Messages

   capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.  Such

   a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of [RFC4271] if

   it receives an Extended Message.  Similarly, any speaker that treats

   an improper Extended Message as a fatal error, MUST treat it

   similarly.

=20

Thus it is to describe the error handling behavior of an implementation =
version which does not support extended message.=20

=20

While I agree this could be misleading for a report of implementation =
which supports extended message capability, maybe it could be used to =
verify the behavior of an old version which does not support this =
capability?

=20

Best regards,

Jie

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Borchert, Oliver =
(Fed)
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 4:35 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, =
Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno and Susan,

=20

I cannot speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx.

I believe when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and overlooked the =
=E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes send Extended =
Message Capability=E2=80=9D.

Therefore the implementation report for section 5a must be corrected =
from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for both BGPSEC-IO =
and QuaggaSRx

=20

BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended message capability if =
so configured.

I just checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted the relevant =
output generated by BGPSEC-IO,

=20

Oliver

=20

-----  output of BGPSEC-IO  -------

=20

=EF=BB=BF./bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx=20

Starting bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...

Send:  (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to QuaggaSRx)=20

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

     |  +--Type: Capability (2)

     |  +--Length: 2

     |  +--Capability: Extended message support capability

     |     +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

     |     +--Length: 0

=E2=80=A6

=20

Received: (Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received by BGPSEC-IO)

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

        +--Type: Capability (2)

        +--Length: 2

        +--Capability: Extended message support capability

           +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

           +--Length: 0

BGP-receiver thread created!

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:

=20

Thank you for your comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think=20

=20

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information =
on the list.   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the =
IESG.  =20

=20

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a =
requirement and only moved to not specifying it when we could not =
quickly pass this through WG LC.=20

=20

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.  As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles =
an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for =
the correction of:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CThe issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 =
octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each attribute.=E2=80=9D

=20

=20

As to your comment:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CWhy is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using =
existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could =
exceed the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to =
behave in this case? This should be described in this specification. =
Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is =
behaving as specified.=E2=80=9D

=20

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to =
have the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.=20

=20

I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the =
text.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 =
(core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&s=
data=3DhXBbOXqwvXqtCV%2B9PbP%2F7IE6WJjWUA2boM33Kds%2Bgh4%3D&reserved=3D0>=
  says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the above is that none of the reported implementations sends the =
capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is updating =
RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I =
don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s =
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=C2=A7 1

=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8=
a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636843769859165043&sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4Tz%2FNnBPfdH7iDf=
0%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =
=E2=80=9C

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23section-1&da=
ta=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d=
6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&sdata=
=3DYVWHAFbYRjG%2FlWPbpw2rW8uGQ6QXss3dufm%2FqHgRvDw%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

=20

[ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8=
a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636843769859165043&sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4Tz%2FNnBPfdH7iDf=
0%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC 8205 (thanks =
for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any reference =
to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=C2=A74

=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability =
MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=E2=80=9D

=20

Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D

=20

I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =E2=80=9Can attribute which can not =
be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D

=20

---

=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and =
implementers are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? =
That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is =
not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.

=20

=20

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=C2=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=C2=A78

=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =C2=BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be =
sent to a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat=
racker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2=
ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&sdata=3DokjT=
eLe6DcTaRV2USy2My6HXDRynupmXlB0i7gUwynA%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&s=
data=3DPoRyFofs04%2FC%2F%2FgbXL2zyED3SW6MrESpHiIE2e7p4cA%3D&reserved=3D0>=
 =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running =
short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by =
BGP-LS features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
=20
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confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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Thank you.

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jakob:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks for mentioning the correct information the BGPSec as far as =
the specifications.=C2=A0 Whether or not the RSA-2048 would have been =
useful to BGPSec, is left for the OPS group handling SIDR =
deployment.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The focus of this discussion is to remove any future obstacles to the =
use of BGP-LS attributes/NLRI.=C2=A0 Two potential limits exist:=C2=A0 =
a) message size (greater than 4096) and b) error handling. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 4, 2019 3:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Dongjie (Jimmy); Susan Hares; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>BGPSec dropped the requirement for extended messages =
because the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>signature was changed from RSA-2048 (256 byte sig) =
to ECDSA P-256 (64 byte sig).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidr/LRHPuO5MF0u-vWuhNAVeVN=
_8fIU">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidr/LRHPuO5MF0u-vWuhNAVeVN_=
8fIU</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>There is no mention of extended messages in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8205">https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
rfc8205</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#7030A0'>All =
mention of it was struck out in:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec-prot=
ocol-23.txt">https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sidr-bgpsec=
-protocol-23.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>Jakob.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dongjie =
(Jimmy)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 1, 2019 10:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' =
&lt;oliver.borchert=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' =
&lt;oliver.borchert@nist.gov&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Sue, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks for updating the implementation report. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>My understanding was that bullet 4 was to cover the behavior of =
section 5 paragraph 1, bullet 5 was to cover the behavior of section 5 =
paragraph 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>But after rereading section 5, I realize that both paragraph 1 and 2 =
are talking about the behavior of a BGP speaker which does not advertise =
the extended message capability to its peer, so perhaps bullets 4 and 5 =
in the implementation report could be merged as below: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>4. When receives an extended message without advertising the BGP =
Extended Message Capability to this peer (Error =
Handling).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>4a. Accepts the extended message if the BGP speaker is able to =
process extended message (but was configured not to advertise the =
capability) &nbsp;&nbsp;[Section 5, paragraph 1 =
MAY]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>4b. Does not accept the extended message, follows RFC4271 handling =
and sends Bad Message Length Notification [Section 5, paragraph 1 SHOULD =
NOT, and paragraph 2 MUST)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hope this helps to reduce the confusion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">mailto:shares@ndzh.com</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 01, 2019 11:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Dongjie (Jimmy) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com">jie.dong@huawei.com</a>&gt;; =
'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:oliver.borchert=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org">oliver.borche=
rt=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>; =
'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:oliver.borchert@nist.gov">oliver.borchert@nist.gov</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>JIe, Bruno and Oliver: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for your input.&nbsp;&nbsp; You are correct that the error =
handling behavior was unclear based on the questions in the chart. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;The purpose of the chart is to provide other BGP WGs (Bess, =
SPRING, LSVR) a clear indication of changes to the base BGP =
specification. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I=E2=80=99ve reformatted sections 4 and 5 of the chart.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To section 4 I=E2=80=99ve added: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>4c&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Does send Extended Message &nbsp;- with a yes from all implementations =
(based on their email) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Section 5, I=E2=80=99ve alter to be: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Error =
handing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Accepts Extended message without receiving <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;BGP Extended Message Capability [Section 5 paragraph 1 =
MAY]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5b&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If =
receives Extended Message without BGP extended message =
support,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;follows RFC4271 handling and sends Bad message length Notification =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;[section 5 paragraph 2 MUST] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Oliver =E2=80=93 if you would read the current text and let me know =
the updated message. &nbsp;I believe the answer for all 3 =
implementations is =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D due to 4b.&nbsp;&nbsp; Please =
let me know and I will update the information in the chart. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To follow-up on Jie=E2=80=99s comments, the text did not accurately =
represent the error handling.&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 5, paragraph 1 has a =
=E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D modified by a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D, which =
results in simply a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.&nbsp; &nbsp;For readability, =
I think the =E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D provides useful =
information&nbsp; to the implementer, &nbsp;but it cannot be tested =
accurately when combined with the =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Let me give you an example of that:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the peer did not send a BGP Extended Message capability, and it =
accepts the extended message (with a length of 10,000 bytes), it could =
have a liberal policy of MAY as a default in the implementation. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;The =E2=80=9Con-wire=E2=80=9D observations cannot tell =
=E2=80=93 only the implementation=E2=80=99s policy (default + =
configured).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also broke out the management information away from the =
specification information.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Dongjie (Jimmy) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com">mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed); Susan Hares; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>; =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Oliver, Bruno and Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To my understanding, bullet 5/5a/5b in the implementation report is =
corresponding to the second paragraph in section 5 =E2=80=9CError =
Handling=E2=80=9D:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:5.25pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended =
Messages<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; capability might also genuinely not support Extended =
Messages.&nbsp; Such<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of =
[RFC4271] if<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; it receives an Extended Message.&nbsp; Similarly, any =
speaker that treats<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; an improper Extended Message as a fatal error, MUST =
treat it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; similarly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thus it is to describe the error handling behavior of an =
implementation version which does not support extended message. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>While I agree this could be misleading for a report of implementation =
which supports extended message capability, maybe it could be used to =
verify the behavior of an old version which does not support this =
capability?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
January 30, 2019 4:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>; =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:oliver.borchert@nist.gov">oliver.borchert@nist.gov</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Bruno and =
Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I cannot =
speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I believe =
when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and overlooked the =
=E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes send Extended =
Message Capability=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Therefore =
the implementation report for section 5a must be corrected from =
=E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for both BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGPSEC-IO =
and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended message capability if so =
configured.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I just =
checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted the relevant output =
generated by BGPSEC-IO,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Oliver<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>-----&nbsp;=
 output of BGPSEC-IO&nbsp; -------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=EF=BB=BF./=
bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Starting =
bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Send:&nbsp;=
 (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to QuaggaSRx) =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>OPEN =
Message<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; =
+--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=A6<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: Capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Type: Capability (2)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Length: 2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Capability: Extended message support =
capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: Extended message =
support capability (6)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: =
0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=A6<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Received: =
(Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received by =
BGPSEC-IO)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>OPEN =
Message<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp; =
+--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=A6<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: Capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: Capability =
(2)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: 2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Capability: Extended message support =
capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: Extended =
message support capability (6)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: =
0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>BGP-receive=
r thread created!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Bruno:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>Thank =
you for your comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>I did =
receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report. &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope those implementers will volunteer this =
information on the list. &nbsp;&nbsp;If not, I will share this =
information with Alvaro and the IESG.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>The =
SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement =
and only moved to not specifying it when we could not quickly pass this =
through WG LC. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>The =
real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.&nbsp; As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this =
handles an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Thank you for the correction of: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=E2=80=9CThe issue is not specific to attributes =
bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than =
4096, irrespective of the size of each =
attribute.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>As to =
your comment: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9CWhy is =
this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP =
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is =
not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This problem has =
been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago. &nbsp;&nbsp;As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases. &nbsp;It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I hope the authors =
will comment on the changes you suggested to the text. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Cheers, =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Susan Hares =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in ..75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b=
1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769=
859165043&amp;sdata=3DhXBbOXqwvXqtCV%2B9PbP%2F7IE6WJjWUA2boM33Kds%2Bgh4%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bg=
p-extended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported implementations sends the capability hence =
no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here =
this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring =
the IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable =
implementations.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A7 =
1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&amp;sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4T=
z%2FNnBPfdH7iDf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9C</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23secti=
on-1&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637=
f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C6368437698591=
65043&amp;sdata=3DYVWHAFbYRjG%2FlWPbpw2rW8uGQ6QXss3dufm%2FqHgRvDw%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859165043&amp;sdata=3DuZS%2BbN9v5cir2o5L3U3jP2xFPbY4T=
z%2FNnBPfdH7iDf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can we have =
an update on this?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Can the =
introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A74</span=
><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A73 says =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=9D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
..e.g.</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=
=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by =E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol =
developers and implementers are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? That they =
don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 =
octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This =
should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a case =
of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=C2=
=A74</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the OPEN =
message. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the OPEN =
message (type 1). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C2=A78</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9CThis =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=C2=BB</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP messages =
bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a =
received not supporting this extension.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b1637f308d68=
608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769859321289&a=
mp;sdata=3DokjTeLe6DcTaRV2USy2My6HXDRynupmXlB0i7gUwynA%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C40bb8a943e614b=
1637f308d68608d6cd%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636843769=
859321289&amp;sdata=3DPoRyFofs04%2FC%2F%2FgbXL2zyED3SW6MrESpHiIE2e7p4cA%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without authorisation.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank you.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><=
/div></div></div></body></html>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/1hOf7DJEPUsKesQvBfA-wnDcWtE>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Oliver and Randy:=20

=20

We are waiting your comments/revisions to complete the WG LC on extended =
messages.  We will extend the WG LC 1 more week to receive your answers. =


=20

Oliver =E2=80=93 Please update the wiki with the correct information.=20

=20

Randy =E2=80=93 Please respond to the questions send on the list.=20

=20

Thank you, Susan Hares=20

=20

From: Borchert, Oliver (Fed) [mailto:oliver.borchert@nist.gov]=20
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 10:55 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: Borchert, Oliver (Fed)
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi Susan,

I know it=E2=80=99s not much but I want to be thorough before I post to =
the list. I try today but definitely will get to this in the next days. =
Still cleaning up from the government shutdown,

Oliver

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Friday, February 1, 2019 at 10:03 AM
To: "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "'Borchert, Oliver =
(Fed)'" <oliver.borchert=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, =
"bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Oliver Borchert =
<oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

JIe, Bruno and Oliver:=20

=20

Thank you for your input.   You are correct that the error handling =
behavior was unclear based on the questions in the chart.   The purpose =
of the chart is to provide other BGP WGs (Bess, SPRING, LSVR) a clear =
indication of changes to the base BGP specification.=20

=20

I=E2=80=99ve reformatted sections 4 and 5 of the chart. =20

=20

To section 4 I=E2=80=99ve added:=20

4c            Does send Extended Message  - with a yes from all =
implementations (based on their email)=20

=20

Section 5, I=E2=80=99ve alter to be:=20

5              Error handing                    =20

5a           Accepts Extended message without receiving=20

             BGP Extended Message Capability [Section 5 paragraph 1 MAY]

                                               =20

5b           If receives Extended Message without BGP extended message =
support,

             follows RFC4271 handling and sends Bad message length =
Notification=20

            [section 5 paragraph 2 MUST]=20

=20

Oliver =E2=80=93 if you would read the current text and let me know the =
updated message.  I believe the answer for all 3 implementations is =
=E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D due to 4b.   Please let me know and I will update =
the information in the chart.=20

=20

To follow-up on Jie=E2=80=99s comments, the text did not accurately =
represent the error handling.   Section 5, paragraph 1 has a =
=E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D modified by a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D, which =
results in simply a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.   For readability, I think =
the =E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D provides useful information  to the =
implementer,  but it cannot be tested accurately when combined with the =
=E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.   =20

=20

Let me give you an example of that:

If the peer did not send a BGP Extended Message capability, and it =
accepts the extended message (with a length of 10,000 bytes), it could =
have a liberal policy of MAY as a default in the implementation.   The =
=E2=80=9Con-wire=E2=80=9D observations cannot tell =E2=80=93 only the =
implementation=E2=80=99s policy (default + configured).   =20

=20

I also broke out the management information away from the specification =
information. =20

=20

Sue Hares =20

=20

From: Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:53 PM
To: Borchert, Oliver (Fed); Susan Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com; =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed)
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi Oliver, Bruno and Sue,

=20

To my understanding, bullet 5/5a/5b in the implementation report is =
corresponding to the second paragraph in section 5 =E2=80=9CError =
Handling=E2=80=9D:

=20

A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended Messages

   capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.  Such

   a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of [RFC4271] if

   it receives an Extended Message.  Similarly, any speaker that treats

   an improper Extended Message as a fatal error, MUST treat it

   similarly.

=20

Thus it is to describe the error handling behavior of an implementation =
version which does not support extended message.=20

=20

While I agree this could be misleading for a report of implementation =
which supports extended message capability, maybe it could be used to =
verify the behavior of an old version which does not support this =
capability?

=20

Best regards,

Jie

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Borchert, Oliver =
(Fed)
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 4:35 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, =
Oliver (Fed) <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno and Susan,

=20

I cannot speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for BGPSEC-IO and =
QuaggaSRx.

I believe when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and overlooked the =
=E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes send Extended =
Message Capability=E2=80=9D.

Therefore the implementation report for section 5a must be corrected =
from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for both BGPSEC-IO =
and QuaggaSRx

=20

BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended message capability if =
so configured.

I just checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted the relevant =
output generated by BGPSEC-IO,

=20

Oliver

=20

-----  output of BGPSEC-IO  -------

=20

./bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx=20

Starting bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...

Send:  (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to QuaggaSRx)=20

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

     |  +--Type: Capability (2)

     |  +--Length: 2

     |  +--Capability: Extended message support capability

     |     +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

     |     +--Length: 0

=E2=80=A6

=20

Received: (Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received by BGPSEC-IO)

OPEN Message

  +--marker: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

=E2=80=A6

     +--Optional Parameter: Capability

        +--Type: Capability (2)

        +--Length: 2

        +--Capability: Extended message support capability

           +--Type: Extended message support capability (6)

           +--Length: 0

BGP-receiver thread created!

=20

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:

=20

Thank you for your comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think=20

=20

I did receive reports privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report.   I hope those implementers will volunteer this information =
on the list.   If not, I will share this information with Alvaro and the =
IESG.  =20

=20

The SIDR work did define draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a =
requirement and only moved to not specifying it when we could not =
quickly pass this through WG LC.=20

=20

The real needs are a growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message =
space.  As my previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles =
an BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.   Thank you for =
the correction of:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CThe issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 =
octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each attribute.=E2=80=9D

=20

=20

As to your comment:=20

=20

=E2=80=9CWhy is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using =
existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could =
exceed the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to =
behave in this case? This should be described in this specification. =
Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is =
behaving as specified.=E2=80=9D

=20

This problem has been true for years, and thus as co-chairs had hoped to =
have the draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago.   As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases.  It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues.=20

=20

I hope the authors will comment on the changes you suggested to the =
text.=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

Please find below some comments.

As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating RFC 4271 =
(core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation. =20

=20


https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d68=
856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939659496&s=
data=3DIQ%2F4nC5x77nMiGgTxKHTxJja4afzEFZZt9HekJZ4y%2BU%3D&reserved=3D0>  =
says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the above is that none of the reported implementations sends the =
capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is updating =
RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I =
don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s =
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

----

=C2=A7 1

=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

   newer capabilities (e.g., [ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8c=
fced0214a38426208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636846301939669501&sdata=3DEv7L503zU0SMj4FH2HaZpd12EhvAbi24k82GBRnVxHc%3D=
&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =
=E2=80=9C

=20

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23section-1&da=
ta=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d688566=
23e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939679510&sdata=
=3DdBjVH3l81FQgHpjJiB%2F8jQnA%2BJUVpFVJrxKM1VCwmNU%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

=20

[ =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools=
.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I-D.ietf=
-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8c=
fced0214a38426208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C=
636846301939679510&sdata=3Dd%2FUb6BIDKZHSUTNouVQzy%2BmMyvF1dAQX3QsoQaPpCP=
8%3D&reserved=3D0> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC 8205 (thanks =
for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any reference =
to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.

Can we have an update on this?

Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated =
to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

----

=C2=A74

=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability =
MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=E2=80=9D

=20

Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

----

=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D

=20

I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

----

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

=20

The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.

Please elaborate on what you mean by =E2=80=9Can attribute which can not =
be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D

=20

---

=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and =
implementers are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D

=20

What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? =
That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is =
not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.

=20

=20

----

Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could =
be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) =
community (such as Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant =
consequences on the availability provided by the network.

=20

---

=C2=A74

OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for the OPEN message.=20

Probably

NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for the OPEN message (type 1).=20

----

=C2=A78

=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =C2=BB
Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be =
sent to a received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

OLD : to reduce compexity

NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat=
racker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d68856623e%7C2=
ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939689519&sdata=3DLbFE=
BRGSPlVVUaVp4khNDjU6vKkqV%2BleZ1NAY%2F7bYfw%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

 =
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftrac.=
ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementation=
s&data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d68=
856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939699524&s=
data=3DhfSXkF3zek9Vmkr%2FUgr8j5G7HcVLBt76GKs1ofv5Ws0%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running =
short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by =
BGP-LS features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Oliver and Randy: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>We are waiting your comments/revisions to complete the WG LC on =
extended messages.=C2=A0 We will extend the WG LC 1 more week to receive =
your answers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Oliver =E2=80=93 Please update the wiki with the correct information. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Randy =E2=80=93 Please respond to the questions send on the list. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you, Susan Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Borchert, Oliver (Fed) [mailto:oliver.borchert@nist.gov] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 4, 2019 10:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I know =
it=E2=80=99s not much but I want to be thorough before I post to the =
list. I try today but definitely will get to this in the next days. =
Still cleaning up from the government shutdown,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Oliver<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Susan Hares =
&lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Friday, February 1, 2019 at =
10:03 AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;'Dongjie (Jimmy)'&quot; =
&lt;jie.dong@huawei.com&gt;, &quot;'Borchert, Oliver (Fed)'&quot; =
&lt;oliver.borchert=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;, =
&quot;bruno.decraene@orange.com&quot; &lt;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;, =
Oliver Borchert &lt;oliver.borchert@nist.gov&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>&quot;idr@ietf.org&quot; &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>JIe, Bruno and Oliver: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for your input.&nbsp;&nbsp; You are correct that the error =
handling behavior was unclear based on the questions in the chart. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;The purpose of the chart is to provide other BGP WGs (Bess, =
SPRING, LSVR) a clear indication of changes to the base BGP =
specification. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I=E2=80=99ve reformatted sections 4 and 5 of the chart.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To section 4 I=E2=80=99ve added: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>4c&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Does send Extended Message &nbsp;- with a yes from all implementations =
(based on their email) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Section 5, I=E2=80=99ve alter to be: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Error =
handing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Accepts Extended message without receiving </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;BGP Extended Message Capability [Section 5 paragraph 1 =
MAY]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>5b&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If =
receives Extended Message without BGP extended message =
support,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;follows RFC4271 handling and sends Bad message length Notification =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;[section 5 paragraph 2 MUST] </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Oliver =E2=80=93 if you would read the current text and let me know =
the updated message. &nbsp;I believe the answer for all 3 =
implementations is =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D due to 4b.&nbsp;&nbsp; Please =
let me know and I will update the information in the chart. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To follow-up on Jie=E2=80=99s comments, the text did not accurately =
represent the error handling.&nbsp; &nbsp;Section 5, paragraph 1 has a =
=E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D modified by a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D, which =
results in simply a =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.&nbsp; &nbsp;For readability, =
I think the =E2=80=9CSHOULD NOT=E2=80=9D provides useful =
information&nbsp; to the implementer, &nbsp;but it cannot be tested =
accurately when combined with the =E2=80=9CMAY=E2=80=9D.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Let me give you an example of that:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the peer did not send a BGP Extended Message capability, and it =
accepts the extended message (with a length of 10,000 bytes), it could =
have a liberal policy of MAY as a default in the implementation. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;The =E2=80=9Con-wire=E2=80=9D observations cannot tell =
=E2=80=93 only the implementation=E2=80=99s policy (default + =
configured).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also broke out the management information away from the =
specification information.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Dongjie (Jimmy) [mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
January 30, 2019 8:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> Borchert, Oliver (Fed); Susan =
Hares; bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi Oliver, Bruno and =
Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>To my understanding, bullet 5/5a/5b in the =
implementation report is corresponding to the second paragraph in =
section 5 =E2=80=9CError Handling=E2=80=9D:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:5.25pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A BGP speaker that does not advertise the =
BGP Extended Messages</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; capability might also =
genuinely not support Extended Messages.&nbsp; =
Such</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a speaker MUST follow the =
error handling procedures of [RFC4271] if</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; it receives an Extended =
Message.&nbsp; Similarly, any speaker that =
treats</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; an improper Extended Message =
as a fatal error, MUST treat it</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
similarly.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thus it is to describe the error handling =
behavior of an implementation version which does not support extended =
message. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>While I agree this could be misleading for =
a report of implementation which supports extended message capability, =
maybe it could be used to verify the behavior of an old version which =
does not support this capability?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Jie</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'> Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Borchert, Oliver (Fed)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2019 =
4:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;; =
bruno.decraene@orange.com; Borchert, Oliver (Fed) =
&lt;oliver.borchert@nist.gov&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Bruno and Susan,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>I cannot speak for the ExaBGP Implementation but for =
BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>I believe when I compiled the report, I mis-read 5a and =
overlooked the =E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D and read instead: =E2=80=9CDoes =
send Extended Message Capability=E2=80=9D.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Therefore the implementation report for section 5a must =
be corrected from =E2=80=9CYes=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9CNo=E2=80=9D for =
both BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>BGPSEC-IO and QuaggaSRx, both do send the extended =
message capability if so configured.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>I just checked the code and run it again. I copy/pasted =
the relevant output generated by BGPSEC-IO,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Oliver</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>-----&nbsp; output of BGPSEC-IO&nbsp; =
-------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>./bgpsecio -f bgpsecio.test.cfg.qsrx =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Starting bgpsecio 0.2.0.25...</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Send:&nbsp; (Open message send from BGPSEC-IO to =
QuaggaSRx) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>OPEN Message</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; +--marker: =
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=A6</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: =
Capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Type: Capability =
(2)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Length: =
2</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; +--Capability: Extended =
message support capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--Type: Extended message support capability (6)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--Length: 0</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=A6</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>Received: (Open message send from QuaggaSRx and received =
by BGPSEC-IO)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>OPEN Message</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; +--marker: =
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=A6</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Optional Parameter: =
Capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Type: =
Capability (2)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +--Length: =
2</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--Capability: Extended message support =
capability</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; +--Type: Extended message support capability =
(6)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; +--Length: 0</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>BGP-receiver thread created!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: =
</b>Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 11:43 AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Bruno:</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thank you for your =
comments on this topic =E2=80=93 as I think </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>I did receive reports =
privately that we have 1 full implementations of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages off list which is not listed in =
this report. &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope those implementers will volunteer this =
information on the list. &nbsp;&nbsp;If not, I will share this =
information with Alvaro and the IESG.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The SIDR work did define =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages as a requirement and only moved to not =
specifying it when we could not quickly pass this through WG LC. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The real needs are a =
growing BGP-LS that may run out of BGP message space.&nbsp; As my =
previous email to IDR indicates, I was hoping this handles an BGP =
message whose length is bigger than 4096 bytes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Thank you =
for the correction of: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9CThe issue is not =
specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose =
length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of each =
attribute.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>As to your comment: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9CWhy is this limited to future =
specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, =
attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octets. How =
does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? This should be =
described in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error =
handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as =
specified.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>This problem has been true for years, =
and thus as co-chairs had hoped to have the =
draft-ietf-bgp-extended-messages passed years ago. &nbsp;&nbsp;As BGP-LS =
attributes grow use and in number, the potential of exceeding the BGP =
message limit increases. &nbsp;It seems like a good direction to prevent =
issues. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>I hope the authors will comment on the =
changes you suggested to the text. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Cheers, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Susan Hares </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Hi WG,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Please find below some comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is =
ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document updating =
RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this =
draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><table =
class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D576 =
style=3D'width:6.0in;margin-left:1.0in'><tr><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a=
38426208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301=
939659496&amp;sdata=3DIQ%2F4nC5x77nMiGgTxKHTxJja4afzEFZZt9HekJZ4y%2BU%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-=
extended-implementations</a> says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in =
0in 0in ..75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but =
my reading of the above is that none of the reported implementations =
sends the capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. Here this document is updating =
RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a niche use case. So I =
don=E2=80=99t see the arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s =
usual two interoperable implementations.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=C2=A7 1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support =
newer AFI/SAFIs and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer capabilities (e.g., =
[</span><span lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939669501&amp;sdata=3DEv7L503zU0SMj4FH2HaZpd12EhvAbi2=
4k82GBRnVxHc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>]), there is</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need to extend the =
maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9C</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23secti=
on-1&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a3842=
6208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C6368463019396=
79510&amp;sdata=3DdBjVH3l81FQgHpjJiB%2F8jQnA%2BJUVpFVJrxKM1VCwmNU%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>[</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27%23ref-I=
-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.=
gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec=
%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939679510&amp;sdata=3Dd%2FUb6BIDKZHSUTNouVQzy%2BmMyvF=
1dAQX3QsoQaPpCP8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It =
has removed the normative/any reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Can we have an update on this?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be updated to =
introduce on the real reasons/needs?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=C2=A74</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A peer which does not advertise this =
capability MUST NOT send BGP</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP =
Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be =
aligned with the above ..e.g.</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>OLD: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A BGP speaker</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages =
to its peer only if it has received the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message =
Capability from that peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>NEW:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>A BGP speaker</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages =
to its peer only if it has sent and received the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message =
Capability to and from that peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating =
information which might be encapsulated</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP messages MUST =
limit the size of their payload to take the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum message size into =
account.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined =
here. If there is none, I would suggest to remove this =
sentence</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, =
in the normal case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and =
there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the =
Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which =
can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended =
Message is a likely path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger =
than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, =
irrespective of the size of each attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Please elaborate on what you mean by =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9C&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED =
that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative in their =
application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use =
this extension? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO =
BE SPECIFIED_XX?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp; Future protocol specifications =
will need to describe how to handle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only =
accommodate 4096 octet messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN'>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, =
using existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one =
could exceed the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed =
to behave in this case? This should be described in this specification. =
Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Depending on the above specification, a =
section describing the operational consequences in a network (such as =
the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. =
Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI being removed in the middle of =
such network, or (extended) community (such as Route Targets) been =
removed. Both having significant consequences on the availability =
provided by the network.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=C2=A74</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>OLD: The Extended Message Capability =
only applies to all messages except for the OPEN message. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Probably</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>NEW: The Extended Message Capability =
applies to all message types except for the OPEN message (type 1). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=C2=A78</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not =
change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=C2=BB</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP messages bigger than 4096 =
octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a received not supporting =
this extension.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Nits:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>OLD&nbsp;: to reduce =
compexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>NEW&nbsp;: to reduce =
complexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>--Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message =
Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can =
access the draft at: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a38426208d68=
856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301939689519&a=
mp;sdata=3DLbFEBRGSPlVVUaVp4khNDjU6vKkqV%2BleZ1NAY%2F7bYfw%3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The authors should indicate whether they know =
of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; =
implementation data at: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a =
href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fidr%2Fwiki%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C56e8cfced0214a=
38426208d68856623e%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636846301=
939699524&amp;sdata=3DhfSXkF3zek9Vmkr%2FUgr8j5G7HcVLBt76GKs1ofv5Ws0%3D&am=
p;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The draft provides a means for expanding the =
BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; =
BGP message space is running short for all of the potential attributes =
or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to =
the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>As you comment on the draft, please consider =
if: a) the technology is mature, b) the additional space in a BGP =
message would be helpful for those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the =
specification is ready for publication.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;ms=
o-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>_______________________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
deforme ou falsifie. Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
privileged information that may be protected by =
law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
delete this message and its attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
'>Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_011C_01D4C1FE.E4808970--



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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
CC: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
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--_000_1E129C9297F74E25AB5B6E9A921D679Dciscocom_--


From nobody Tue Feb 12 12:56:54 2019
Return-Path: <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: [Idr] AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11
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Dear authors:

I just finished my review of this document -- please see inline
comments/questions.

In general, I think that there is more work needed in at least two fronts:

(1) Consistency in the specification of the new TLVs.  Most of the
descriptions point at other documents, but they don't do so in a consistent
manner: some at the start of the section, others when pointing at the
values, etc.  Please be consistent!  Given that =C2=A72.4/2.5 already have =
a
summary, I personally find the information in the individual sections
redundant.  Instead of a statement at the start of a section, I prefer you
to be specific about the values -- see =C2=A72.1.2 for an example.

Please note that most of my comments related to the specification of the
TLVs apply to multiple sections, not just the one where I made them.  I
pointed this out in most cases, but may have missed some.


(2) Error Handling.  As has been discussed on the list (for example in [1],
[2] and [3]), rfc7752 could use enhancements as it relates to considering
error handling with applications such as SR, and in general.  Those issues
don't need to be fixed in this document, but I would like to see in this
document some text about the potential effect: maybe in terms of the effect
than an error might have from an operations or management point of view...
See my comments below for specifics.  Again, not looking for this document
to "fix" BGP-LS, but to consider the effect on the expected function a
controller might have, as described in the Introduction.

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Tm0vlu-ECSnIAyO1byj68AJm2XU
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/0qsjuVaEhroKInHZMohP6HnsWd8
[3] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/-CZGAiC8D3KogLnUs6ClW_KlU24


Thanks!

Alvaro.


[Line numbers come from idnits.]

...
27 Requirements Language

29   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
30   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
31   document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119].

[major] Please use the rfc8174 template.


...
99 1.  Introduction
...
110   Two types of IGP segments are defined, Prefix segments and Adjacency
111   segments.  Prefix segments, by default, represent an ECMP-aware
112   shortest-path to a prefix, as per the state of the IGP topology.
113   Adjacency segments represent a hop over a specific adjacency between
114   two nodes in the IGP.  A prefix segment is typically a multi-hop path
115   while an adjacency segment, in most of the cases, is a one-hop path.
116   [RFC8402].

[nit] rfc8402 defines more than 2 IGP segments.

[nit] s/one-hop path. [RFC8402]./one-hop path [RFC8402].

118   When Segment Routing is enabled in a IGP domain, segments are
119   advertised in the form of Segment Identifiers (SIDs).  The IGP link-
120   state routing protocols have been extended to advertise SIDs and
121   other SR-related information.  IGP extensions are described in: IS-IS
122   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions], OSPFv2
123   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and OSPFv3
124   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].  Using these
125   extensions, Segment Routing can be enabled within an IGP domain.

[nit] s/a IGP domain/an IGP domain

127                           +------------+
128                           |  Consumer  |
129                           +------------+
130                                 ^
131                                 |
132                                 v
133                       +-------------------+
134                       |    BGP Speaker    |         +-----------+
135                       | (Route-Reflector) |         | Consumer  |
136                       +-------------------+         +-----------+
137                             ^   ^   ^                       ^
138                             |   |   |                       |
139             +---------------+   |   +-------------------+   |
140             |                   |                       |   |
141             v                   v                       v   v
142       +-----------+       +-----------+             +-----------+
143       |    BGP    |       |    BGP    |             |    BGP    |
144       |  Speaker  |       |  Speaker  |    . . .    |  Speaker  |
145       +-----------+       +-----------+             +-----------+
146             ^                   ^                         ^
147             |                   |                         |
148            IGP                 IGP                       IGP

150                   Figure 1: Link State info collection

[nit] Maybe move this Figure so it is closer to where it is referenced.

...
159   In order to address the need for applications that require
160   topological visibility across IGP areas, or even across Autonomous
161   Systems (AS), the BGP-LS address-family/sub-address-family have been
162   defined to allow BGP to carry Link-State information.  The BGP
163   Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI) encoding format for
164   BGP-LS and a new BGP Path Attribute called the BGP-LS attribute are
165   defined in [RFC7752].  The identifying key of each Link-State object,
166   namely a node, link, or prefix, is encoded in the NLRI and the
167   properties of the object are encoded in the BGP-LS attribute.
168   Figure 1 describes a typical deployment scenario.  In each IGP area,
169   one or more nodes are configured with BGP-LS.  These BGP speakers
170   form an IBGP mesh by connecting to one or more route-reflectors.
171   This way, all BGP speakers (specifically the route-reflectors) obtain
172   Link-State information from all IGP areas (and from other ASes from
173   EBGP peers).  An external component connects to the route-reflector
174   to obtain this information (perhaps moderated by a policy regarding
175   what information is or isn't advertised to the external component).

[minor] The way that the propagation of information can be controlled by
policy is important.  Please make sure that the text is clear in the fact
that the discussion above is referencing rfc7752 (and that the reference to
it is not just about the encodings).

177   This document describes extensions to BGP-LS to advertise the SR
178   information.  An external component (e.g., a controller) then can
179   collect SR information from across an SR domain and construct the
180   end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs) that need to be applied to
181   an incoming packet to achieve the desired end-to-end forwarding.
182   Here the SR domain is defined as a single administrative domain that
183   may be comprised of a single AS or multiple ASes under consolidated
184   global SID administration.

[nit] s/under consolidated/under a consolidated

[major] Please don't redefine "SR domain".  The definition above is not the
same as what rfc8402 says (in =C2=A72).  Easy fix: simply put a reference t=
o
rfc8402 next to the first mention of "SR domain", and delete that last
sentence.

186 2.  BGP-LS Extensions for Segment Routing

188   This document defines SR extensions to BGP-LS and specifies the TLVs
189   and sub-TLVs for advertising SR information within the BGP-LS
190   Attribute.  Section 2.4 and Section 2.5 illustrates the equivalent
191   TLVs and sub-TLVs in IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 protocols.

[nit] "illustrates" sounds like giving examples of equivalent TLVs.  But I
think that the tables don't show examples, they show/point to the
corresponding TLVs.  Perhaps use a different word...


...
200   Some of the TLVs defined in this document contain fields (e.g. flags)
201   whose semantics need to be interpreted accordingly to the respective
202   underlying IS-IS, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 protocol.  The receiver of the
203   BGP-LS update for any of the NLRIs MUST check the Protocol-ID of the
204   NLRI and refer to the underlying protocol specification in order to
205   parse such fields.  The individual field descriptions in the sub-
206   sections below point to the relevant underlying protocol
207   specifications for such fields.

[major] "The receiver of the BGP-LS update for any of the NLRIs MUST check
the Protocol-ID of the NLRI and refer to the underlying protocol
specification in order to parse such fields."  This text is a general
statement ("for any of the NLRIs") that seems to want to Update rfc7752,
where Protocol-ID is defined...but I don't think that is the intent,
right?  Note that rfc7752 doesn't explicitly mandate that the
"receiver...refer to the underlying protocol specification" -- it just
implies it when talking about the Opaque TLVs.

IOW, this seems like a significant change as related to other BGP-LS specs.

Note also that =C2=A75 (Manageability Considerations) has the following tex=
t,
which I think is in contradiction of the one above:

...
                       ...                The semantic or content
   checking for the TLVs specified in this document and their
   association with the BGP-LS NLRI types or their BGP-LS Attribute is
   left to the consumer of the BGP-LS information (e.g. an application
   or a controller) and not the BGP protocol.

   ...               The handling of semantic or content errors by the
   consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage and
   hence is beyond the scope of this document.

209 2.1.  Node Attributes TLVs

211   The following Node Attribute TLVs are defined:

213              +-----------------+----------+---------------+
214              | Description     | Length   |       Section |
215              +-----------------+----------+---------------+
216              | SID/Label       | variable | Section 2.1.1 |
217              | SR Capabilities | variable | Section 2.1.2 |
218              | SR Algorithm    | variable | Section 2.1.3 |
219              | SR Local Block  | variable | Section 2.1.4 |
220              | SRMS Preference | variable | Section 2.1.5 |
221              +-----------------+----------+---------------+

223                       Table 1: Node Attribute TLVs

[minor] It would be nice if the table also contained the TLV Type.  This
comment applies to other similar tables.

[minor] =C2=A72.1.2/2.1.3 use a "-" in the name of the TLV.  Please be
consistent as both versions are used throughout the document.

[nit] Yes, the length is variable, but in some cases the possible values
are known.  For example, the length of the SID/Label sub-TLV can only be 3
or 4.  Consider indicating that.  OTOH, I don't see why indicating the
Length is significant at this point -- IOW, I would even suggest removing
that column.

225   These TLVs can ONLY be added to the BGP-LS Attribute associated with
226   the Node NLRI that originates the corresponding underlying IGP TLV/
227   sub-TLV described below.

[minor] "the Node NLRI that originates the corresponding underlying IGP..."
 The Node NLRI doesn't originate anything...it describes the IGP node that
originates something...  Please be specific.

[major] The text above sounds as if you want to mandate something...
Writing "ONLY" in caps doesn't have a Normative effect.  Should there be a
"MUST" somewhere?  Or perhaps soften a little: s/can ONLY/should only

The next question is: what if they are added somewhere else?  There doesn't
seem to be a way for the receiver to know if the TLVs are associated with
the correct Node NLRI...  I'm guessing that all the receiver can do is
assume that the TLV is referring to the right node...

>From the text, I'm assuming that the use is intended to be limited to the
Node NLRI.  Unfortunately, rfc7752 doesn't specify actions to be taken if
that is not the case.

This comment applies to other places where the "ONLY be added" phrase
exists.


229 2.1.1.  SID/Label Sub-TLV

231   The SID/Label TLV is used as sub-TLV by the SR-Capabilities
232   (Section 2.1.2) and SRLB (Section 2.1.4) TLVs and has the following
233   format:

[nit] s/used as sub-TLV/used as a sub-TLV

[minor] This is the first time that SRLB is used in this document, please
use the extended version here:  s/SRLB/SR Local Block (SRLB)

...
245      Type: TBD, see Section 4.

[minor] The code points have already been assigned (early allocation).
Please change "TBD" for the actual values.

247      Length: Variable, 3 or 4.

[nit] The Length is really not variable...it's 3 or 4.

...
254      The receiving router MUST ignore the SID/Label sub-TLV if the
255      length is other then 3 or 4.

[major] If the sub-TLV is ignored, the information in the SR-Capabilities
or SR Local Block TLVs will be incomplete (at best).  What is the potential
impact of that?  Is the received information still useful?  Should other
actions be taken?

257 2.1.2.  SR-Capabilities TLV

259   The SR-Capabilities TLV is used in order to advertise the node's SR
260   Capabilities including its Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB)
261   range(s).  In the case of IS-IS, the capabilities also include the
262   IPv4 and IPv6 support for SR-MPLS forwarding plane.  This information
263   is derived from the protocol specific advertisements.

[nit] s/support for SR-MPLS forwarding plane/support for the SR-MPLS
forwarding plane

265   o  IS-IS, as defined by the SR-Capabilities sub-TLV in
266      [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions].

268   o  OSPFv2/OSPFv3, as defined by the SID/Label Range TLV in
269      [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and
270      [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

[minor] The text above, pointing at the individual IGP specs is present in
many of the descriptions for the TLVs, but not all.  Sections 2.4/2.5 have
tables that also point at the equivalent TLVs.  I'm looking for
consistency: either indicate in each section where the information is
derived from, or not.  Given that =C2=A72.4/2.5 already have a summary, I
personally find the information (like the one above) in the individual
sections redundant.  Instead of the statement above, I prefer you to be
specific about the values described below -- for example, when describing
the Range Size field below, you could say something like this:

OLD>
   Range Size: 3 octet value indicating the number of labels in
   the range.

NEW>
   Range Size: 3 octet value indicating the number of labels in
   the range.  The value and characteristics of this field are derived from
the Range field in the SR-Capabilities sub-TLV in
[I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions], or from the Range Size field in
the SID/Label Range TLV in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and
[I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

Note that doing it this way saves you the need to define the
characteristics of each field (because even if the values are derived, the
TLVs here are new).

This comment obviously applies to all similar instances in the document.

272   The SR Capabilities TLV has following format:

[nit] s/has following format/has the following format


...
290      Length: Variable.

[major] Yes, it's variable, but it has to be at least 12.  What should a
router do if the length is < 12?  After that, there are only specific valid
lengths: 12, 13, 19, 21, etc.  What if the length is not one of those
values?

I couldn't find guidance in rfc7752.  The closest statement is from =C2=A76=
.2.2
(Fault Management), where one of the "checks for determining if a message
is malformed...Does any fixed-length TLV correspond to the TLV Length field
in this document?"  This TLV is not fixed-length, but the possibilities are
finite.

Note that rfc7752 says that if the length is not the expected one, then the
whole BGP-LS attribute is discarded.  For this specific case, it means that
the controller wouldn't have complete knowledge of the network, even if the
information derived from the IGP is correct...

This comment applies to other similar instances.

292      Flags: 1 octet of flags as defined in
293      [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions].

[major] When the BGP-LS information comes from OSPF, how should the flags
be interpreted?  There is no indication in the corresponding OSPF drafts of
"IPv4 and IPv6 support for SR-MPLS" -- should the bits always be unset?


...
300         Range Size: 3 octet value indicating the number of labels in
301         the range.

[nit] s/labels/labels or SIDs

[major] What numbers are valid in the Range Size field?  Can it be 0?  Take
a look above at my comments about derived values.

303         SID/Label sub-TLV (as defined in Section 2.1.1) which encodes
304         the first label in the range.

[nit] s/first label/first label or SID


...
339 2.1.4.  SR Local Block TLV
...
380      Flags: 1 octet of flags.  None are defined at this stage.

[major] Only the corresponding ISIS sub-TLV has Flags defined -- and I
realize that the text above is the same as in
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions.  I think you really don't want
this field to evolve independently.  IOW, please use a description like the
you used for the Flags in the SR-Capabilities TLV.


...
393 2.1.5.  SRMS Preference TLV
...
427   The use of the SRMS Preference TLV is defined in
428   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],
429   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and
430   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

[major] This document only defines how to carry information in BGP-LS, not
what to do with it.  IOW, I think that the last paragraph is not needed, it
is out of scope of this document...

432 2.2.  Link Attribute TLVs

434   The following Link Attribute TLVs are are defined:

436   +----------------------------------------+----------+---------------+
437   | Description                            |   Length |       Section |
438   +----------------------------------------+----------+---------------+
439   | Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj-SID) | variable | Section 2.2.1 |
440   | TLV                                    |          |               |
441   | LAN Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj- | variable | Section 2.2.2 |
442   | SID) TLV                               |          |               |
443   | L2 Bundle Member TLV                   | variable | Section 2.2.3 |
444   +----------------------------------------+----------+---------------+

446                       Table 2: Link Attribute TLVs

[minor] The names used above don't match the names used in the sections
below.

...
452   For a LAN, normally a node only announces its adjacency to the IS-IS
453   pseudo-node (or the equivalent OSPF Designated and Backup Designated
454   Routers)[I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions].  The LAN
455   Adjacency Segment TLV allows a node to announce adjacencies to all
456   other nodes attached to the LAN in a single instance of the BGP-LS
457   Link NLRI.  Without this TLV, the corresponding BGP-LS link NLRI
458   would need to be originated for each additional adjacency in order to
459   advertise the SR TLVs for these neighbor adjacencies.

[minor] This paragraph maybe fits better in =C2=A72.2.2.


461 2.2.1.  Adjacency SID TLV
...
482      Flags. 1 octet field of following flags as defined in
483      [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],
484      [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and
485      [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

NEW>
   Flags: 1 octet field.  The value corresponds to the Flags specified for
the
   Adj-SID Sub-TLV in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],
   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] or
   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

487      Weight: Weight used for load-balancing purposes.

[minor] Similar to the above text...

489      Reserved: 2 octets that SHOULD be set to 0 and MUST be ignored on
490      receipt.

492      SID/Index/Label: Label or index value depending on the flags
493      setting as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],
494      [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and
495      [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].

[minor] Similar text here too...


497 2.2.2.  LAN Adjacency SID TLV
...
[major] The OSPF Neighbor ID / IS-IS System-ID field is not defined.


542 2.2.3.  L2 Bundle Member

[nit] s/L2 Bundle Member/L2 Bundle Member Attribute TLV

544   The L2 Bundle Member Attribute TLV identifies an L2 Bundle Member
545   link which in turn is associated with a parent L3 link.  The L3 link
546   is described by the Link NLRI defined in [RFC7752] and the L2 Bundle
547   Member Attribute TLV is associated with the Link NLRI.  The TLV MAY
548   include sub-TLVs which describe attributes associated with the bundle
549   member.  The identified bundle member represents a unidirectional
550   path from the originating router to the neighbor specified in the
551   parent L3 Link.  Multiple L2 Bundle Member Attribute TLVs MAY be
552   associated with a Link NLRI.

[minor] "identifies an L2 Bundle Member link...The identified bundle
member".  Are we talking about a link or just the members?

...
574      L2 Bundle Member Descriptor: A Link Local Identifier as defined in
575      [RFC4202].

[major] From the text, it looks like this information is not something that
is learned from the IGP, which is then just transported by BGP-LS (just
like the rest of the TLVs in this document), but table 5 points at
draft-ietf-isis-l2bundles.  Why is draft-ietf-isis-l2bundles not used to
describe this TLV?

[major] rfc4202 is not IS-IS-specific.  What about OSPF?  I note that
rfc4203 defines OSPF extensions that include the Link Local Identifier, so
this concept is not foreign to it.

577   Link attributes for L2 Bundle Member Links are advertised as sub-TLVs
578   of the L2Bundle Member Attribute TLV.  The sub-TLVs are identical to
579   existing BGP-LS TLVs as identified in the table below.

[nit] s/L2Bundle/L2 Bundle


...
633 2.3.1.  Prefix-SID TLV
...
[major] draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions also includes the MT-ID
in the Prefix SID Sub-TLV.  Is that not needed by a controller?

691 2.3.2.  Prefix Attribute Flags TLV
...
711      Length: variable.

[minor] The length of the flags fields in rfc7794/rfc7684 are both one
octet long.  Can this length be made fixed?

[major] I could not find a Flags field for OSPFv3 in rfc5340.

[minor] From Table 7, it seems that the reference to rfc8362 points to the
"Prefix Options Field", is that correct?

713      Flags: a variable length flag field (according to the length
714      field).  Flags are routing protocol specific and are to be parsed
715      as below:

717      *  IS-IS flags are defined in [RFC7794]

719      *  OSPFv2 flags are defined in [RFC7684]

721      *  OSPFv3 flags map to the Prefix Options field defined in
722         [RFC7794] and extended via [RFC8362]

[nit] The text at the top of this section refers to rfc5340...

[major] rfc7794 only talks about IS-IS, not OSPFv3.


724 2.3.3.  Source Router Identifier (Source Router-ID) TLV

726   The Source Router-ID TLV contains the IPv4 or IPv6 Router-ID of the
727   originator of the Prefix.  For IS-IS protocol this is as defined in
728   [RFC7794].  The Source Router-ID TLV may be used to carry the OSPF
729   Router-ID of the prefix originator.

[major] Reference for OSPF?  Only "may"??

[major] rfc7752 defines the IGP Router-ID TLV to carry the same
information.  What is the relationship between these two TLVs?  Since the
IGP Router-ID TLV is mandatory, are there cases where this one may not be
needed?


...
745      Length: 4 or 16.

[major] OSPF always uses a 32-bit number.  IOW, the length is fixed for
OSPF.

...
749 2.3.4.  Range TLV

751   The range TLV is used in order to advertise a range of prefix-to-SID
752   mappings as part of the Segment Routing Mapping Server functionality
753   [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop], as defined in the
754   respective underlying IGP SR extensions
755   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions],
756   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions] and
757   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions].  The Prefix-NLRI to which
758   the Range TLV is attached MUST be advertised as a non-routing prefix
759   where no IGP metric TLV (TLV 1095) is attached.

[major] What do you mean in the final sentence?  It sounds as if the IGP
metric TLV and the Range TLV are mutually exclusive and should never be
advertised together.  Is that it?  If so, what should the receiver do if
they are?


761   The format of the Range TLV is as follows:

763    0                   1                   2                   3
764    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
765   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
766   |             Type              |             Length            |
767   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
768   |     Flags     | Reserved      |             Range Size        |
769   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
770   //                          sub-TLVs                           //
771   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

773   where:

[nit] That "where" should be after the Figure title.

775                        Figure 2: Range TLV format


...
[minor] As will all the other sections, please be consistent and fold the
sub-sections below into the description above.

804 2.3.4.1.  Advertisement Procedure for OSPF

806   The OSPFv2/OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV is encoded in the Range
807   TLV.  The flags of the Range TLV have the semantic mapped to the
808   definition in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] section 4 or
809   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions] section 4.

811   Then the prefix-to-SID mapping from the OSPF Prefix SID sub-TLV is
812   encoded using the BGP-LS Prefix-SID TLV as defined in Section 2.3.1
813   with the flags set according to the definition in
814   [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] section 5 or
815   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions] section 5.

[major] The Extended Prefix Range TLV contains other fields not present
here: AF, for instance.  The last paragraph seems to indicate that the
prefix information will be in the BGP-LS Prefix-SID TLV, but that
information doesn't come from the Extended Prefix Range TLV (and it doesn't
include the AF).  What am I missing?

[major] The text above seems to imply that the Range TLV and the Prefix-SID
TLV should always be included together.  Is that true?  If so, please make
it more explicit.

817 2.3.4.2.  Advertisement Procedure for IS-IS

819   The IS-IS SID/Label Binding TLV, when used to signal mapping server
820   label bindings, is encoded in the Range TLV.  The flags of the Range
821   TLV have the sematic mapped to the definition in
822   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions] section 2.4.1.

824   Then the prefix-to-SID mappings from the IS-IS Prefix SID sub-TLV is
825   encoded using the BGP-LS Prefix-SID TLV as defined in Section 2.3.1
826   with the flags set according to the definition in
827   [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions] section 2.4.4.1.

[major] Same questions (as above) related to the other fields in the
SID/Label Binding TLV, and the relationship between the Range TLV and the
Prefix-SID TLV.


829 2.4.  Equivalent IS-IS Segment Routing TLVs/Sub-TLVs
...
837   +---------------------------------------+----------+----------------+
838   | Description                           | Length   | IS-IS TLV/sub- |
839   |                                       |          | TLV            |
840   +---------------------------------------+----------+----------------+
841   | SR Capabilities                       | variable | 2 [1]          |
842   | SR Algorithm                          | variable | 19 [2]         |
843   | SR Local Block                        | variable | 22 [3]         |
844   | SRMS Preference                       | 1        | 19 [4]         |
845   | Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj-    | variable | 31 [5]         |
846   | SID)                                  |          |                |
847   | LAN Adjacency Segment Identifier      | variable | 32 [6]         |
848   | (LAN-Adj-SID)                         |          |                |
849   | Prefix SID                            | variable | 3 [7]          |
850   | Range                                 | variable | 149 [8]        |
851   | SID/Label TLV                         | variable | 1 [9]          |
852   | Prefix Attribute Flags                | variable | 4 [10]         |
853   | Source Router ID                      | variable | 11/12 [11]     |
854   | L2 Bundle Member TLV                  | variable | 25 [12]        |
855   +---------------------------------------+----------+----------------+

[major] Instead of using URIs, please put an explicit pointer to the RFC/ID
(and if desired, the section)...and make sure that there are corresponding
References.  If a document is referenced only in this table, then the
Reference can be Informative.

[nit] For Tables 5-7: No need to use "TLV" in the description.

857          Table 5: IS-IS Segment Routing Extensions TLVs/Sub-TLVs

859 2.5.  Equivalent OSPFv2/OSPFv3 Segment Routing TLVs/Sub-TLVs
...
886          Table 6: OSPF Segment Routing Extensions TLVs/Sub-TLVs

[nit] s/OSPF/OSPFv2

[minor] The OSPF tables don't include the Source Router ID or the L2 Bundle
Member TLVs.  Is there a reason for that, or just an oversight?

...
908 3.  Implementation Status

[nit] This section says nothing. :-(   At least a pointer to
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-e=
xt-implementations
might be nice.  OR, you can just remove it.


...
943 4.  IANA Considerations

945   This document requests assigning code-points from the registry "BGP-
946   LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute
947   TLVs" based on table Table 8.  The column "IS-IS TLV/Sub-TLV" defined
948   in the registry does not require any value and should be left empty.

[major] The early allocation has already been done...so this document
doesn't request assignment from IANA.  Please update.


...
977 5.  Manageability Considerations

979   This section is structured as recommended in [RFC5706].

981   The new protocol extensions introduced in this document augment the
982   existing IGP topology information that was distributed via [RFC7752].
983   Procedures and protocol extensions defined in this document do not
984   affect the BGP protocol operations and management other than as
985   discussed in the Manageability Considerations section of [RFC7752].
986   Specifically, the malformed attribute tests for syntactic checks in
987   the Fault Management section of [RFC7752] now encompass the new BGP-
988   LS Attribute TLVs defined in this document.  The semantic or content
989   checking for the TLVs specified in this document and their
990   association with the BGP-LS NLRI types or their BGP-LS Attribute is
991   left to the consumer of the BGP-LS information (e.g. an application
992   or a controller) and not the BGP protocol.

[nit] s/that was distributed/that is distributed

994   A consumer of the BGP-LS information is retrieving this information
995   from a BGP protocol component that is doing the signaling over a BGP-
996   LS session, via some APIs or a data model (refer Section 1 and 2 of
997   [RFC7752]).  The handling of semantic or content errors by the
998   consumer would be dictated by the nature of its application usage and
999   hence is beyond the scope of this document.  This document only
1000   introduces new Attribute TLVs and an error in them would result in
1001   only that specific attribute being discarded with an error log.

[nit] s/is retrieving this/retrieves this

[minor] "...retrieving this information...over a BGP-LS session, via some
APIs or a data model (refer Section 1 and 2 of [RFC7752])."  I think that
even mentioning that an API or data model can be used instead of BGP-LS is
a stretch -- that is not how I interpret the initial sections in rfc7752
(which are just background sections), and there are no formal API/data
model definition.

[major] "...new Attribute TLVs and an error in them would result in only
that specific attribute being discarded with an error log."  According to
rfc7752, this statement is true only for syntactic errors, not semantic
ones.

Semantic errors ("left to the consumer", as mentioned above) means that the
BGP-LS session can be used to transport trash (trash-in-trash-out).  Jeff
Haas brought this up during the WGLC [4].  I agree (with the Chairs'
conclusion) that this issue is bigger than this document -- but (because we
don't have a current solution) I would like to see it mentioned somewhere
as a potential issue (maybe in the Management or Security Considerations
sections, your choice).

[4] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Yfp6WyqnRtMAOeZvSvK7rYCUkHg

[major] rfc7752 does mandate the use of "attribute discard" (rfc7606). I
would really like to see a discussion (or at least a mention) around the
fact that discarding an attribute may result in the receiver not having
complete information.  In the case of SR, this implies that the controller
may not have complete information to calculate the paths.

I think this is an issue bigger than this document, so I am not asking you
to solve it...I'm just asking for the document to acknowledge that it
exists and to mention what the potential impact may be.


1003   The extensions, specified in this document, do not introduce any new
1004   configuration or monitoring aspects in BGP or BGP-LS other than as
1005   discussed in [RFC7752].  The manageability aspects of the underlying
1006   SR features are covered by [I-D.ietf-spring-sr-yang],
1007   [I-D.ietf-isis-sr-yang] and [I-D.ietf-ospf-sr-yang].

[minor] While the Yang models have to do with management, there are no
"manageability aspects of the underlying SR features" included there.

[major] Following the recommendations from rfc5706, a Fault Management
section would be appropriate to include considerations related to the use
of BGP-LS as a transport for SR information (given this is the first draft
to propose it), and the possible errors mentioned here...  Again, not
looking for solutions, just acknowledgement.


1009 6.  Security Considerations

1011   The new protocol extensions introduced in this document augment the
1012   existing IGP topology information that was distributed via [RFC7752]=
.
1013   The Security Considerations section of [RFC7752] also applies to
1014   these extensions.  The procedures and new TLVs defined in this
1015   document, by themselves, do not affect the BGP-LS security model
1016   discussed in [RFC7752].

[nit] s/that was distributed/that is distributed

1018   BGP-LS SR extensions enable traffic engineering use-cases within the
1019   Segment Routing domain.  SR operates within a trusted domain (refer
1020   Security Considerations section in [RFC8402] for more detail) and it=
s
1021   security considerations also apply to BGP-LS sessions when carrying
1022   SR information.The SR traffic engineering policies using the SIDs
1023   advertised via BGP-LS are expected to be used entirely within this
1024   trusted SR domain (e.g. between multiple AS/domains within a single
1025   provider network).  Therefore, precaution is necessary to ensure tha=
t
1026   the SR information collected via BGP-LS is limited to specific
1027   controllers or applications in a secure manner within this SR domain=
.

[nit] s/trusted domain (refer Security Considerations section in [RFC8402]
for more detail)/trusted domain [RFC8402]

[nit] s/SR information.The SR traffic/SR information. The SR traffic

[major] "SR operates within a trusted domain...[RFC8402]...and its security
considerations also apply to BGP-LS sessions when carrying SR information."
 The Security Considerations in rfc8404 really only talk about the data
plane -- I don't see how they apply to the BGP-LS sessions.

[major] "...precaution is necessary to ensure that the SR information
collected via BGP-LS is limited to specific controllers or applications..."
 This sounds as if you're referring to information that (once collected)
can be shared between controllers -- I think that case is out of scope.  If
you are trying to talk about the BGP sessions, then I think the language
needs a little more work.  BTW, the paragraph below also talks about BGP
sessions; suggestion: keep the common topics together.

[major] The end of the last sentence says "...in a secure manner within
this SR domain".  Assuming that we're talking about BGP sessions, what does
that mean?  Does it mean anything beyond what BGP is normally specified to
do?  If not, then I would recommend taking that piece of text out to not
invite more questions than needed.

[minor] You talk about "controllers or applications", but in the rest of
the document you have mostly used "consumer" (which is a good thing because
it shows consistency with rfc8402).  Suggestion: use "consumers" here as
well.

1029   The isolation of BGP-LS peering sessions is also required to ensure
1030   that BGP-LS topology information (including the newly added SR
1031   information) is not advertised to an external BGP peering session
1032   outside an administrative domain.

[major] What does "isolation of BGP-LS peering sessions" mean?  Why is it
not Normatively REQUIRED?

[major] From prior experience (see draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp), the
SecDir/Sec ADs asked for text related to why it is ok to transport the new
information in BGP.  This is the text that resulted from that discussion:

   The TLVs introduced in this document are used to propagate IGP
   defined information ([I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis] and [RFC7471].)
   These TLVs represent the state and resource availability of the IGP
   link.  The IGP instances originating these TLVs are assumed to
   support all the required security and authentication mechanisms (as
   described in [I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis] and [RFC7471]) in order
   to prevent any security issue when propagating the TLVs into BGP-LS.
   The advertisement of the link attribute information defined in this
   document presents no additional risk beyond that associated with the
   existing set of link attribute information already supported in
   [RFC7752].

Note that this text is complementary to what is already stated in the first
paragraph -- but goes into a more explicit explanation and brings in the
security considerations from the documents where the IGP extensions are
defined.  Consider adding something similar here.


...
1126 9.2.  Informative References
...
1159   [RFC8402]  Filsfils, C., Ed., Previdi, S., Ed., Ginsberg, L.,
1160              Decraene, B., Litkowski, S., and R. Shakir, "Segment
1161              Routing Architecture", RFC 8402, DOI 10.17487/RFC8402,
1162              July 2018, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8402>.

[major] I think this should be a Normative reference.


1164 9.3.  URIs

[major] As mentioned before, please use References (above) instead of URIs.


...
1197   [12] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-l2bundles-07

[major] The reference should become Normative (see =C2=A72.2.3).

--0000000000008698d60581b8a910
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">Dear authors:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">I just finished my review of this document -- pl=
ease see inline comments/questions.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">In general, I think that there is more work nee=
ded in at least two fronts:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">(1) Consistency in the specification of the new TLVs.=
=C2=A0 Most of the descriptions point at other documents, but they don&#39;=
t do so in a consistent manner: some at the start of the section, others wh=
en pointing at the values, etc.=C2=A0 Please be consistent!=C2=A0 Given tha=
t =C2=A72.4/2.5 already have a summary, I personally find the information i=
n the individual sections redundant.=C2=A0 Instead of a statement at the st=
art of a section, I prefer you to be specific about the values -- see =C2=
=A72.1.2 for an example.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">Please note that most of my comments related to the specif=
ication of the TLVs apply to multiple sections, not just the one where I ma=
de them.=C2=A0 I pointed this out in most cases, but may have missed some.<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">(2) Error Handling.=C2=A0 As has been discussed=
 on the list (for example in [1], [2] and [3]), rfc7752 could use enhanceme=
nts as it relates to considering error handling with applications such as S=
R, and in general.=C2=A0 Those issues don&#39;t need to be fixed in this do=
cument, but I would like to see in this document some text about the potent=
ial effect: maybe in terms of the effect than an error might have from an o=
perations or management point of view... See my comments below for specific=
s.=C2=A0 Again, not looking for this document to &quot;fix&quot; BGP-LS, bu=
t to consider the effect on the expected function a controller might have, =
as described in the Introduction.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">[1] <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/=
msg/idr/Tm0vlu-ECSnIAyO1byj68AJm2XU">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/=
idr/Tm0vlu-ECSnIAyO1byj68AJm2XU</a></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[2] <a h=
ref=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/0qsjuVaEhroKInHZMohP6HnsWd=
8">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/0qsjuVaEhroKInHZMohP6HnsWd8</a=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[3] <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.or=
g/arch/msg/idr/-CZGAiC8D3KogLnUs6ClW_KlU24">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/ar=
ch/msg/idr/-CZGAiC8D3KogLnUs6ClW_KlU24</a></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Than=
ks!</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Alva=
ro.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[Line numbers come from idnits.]</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">27<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span>Requirements Language</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">29<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The key words &quot;MUST&quot;, &quot;MUST NOT&quot;=
, &quot;REQUIRED&quot;, &quot;SHALL&quot;, &quot;SHALL NOT&quot;,</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">30<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 &quot;SHOULD&quot;, &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot;, &quot;REC=
OMMENDED&quot;, &quot;MAY&quot;, and &quot;OPTIONAL&quot; in this</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">31<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 21=
19 [RFC2119].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">[major] Please use the rfc8174 template.</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">99<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>1.=C2=A0 Introduction</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">110<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Two types of IGP segments are de=
fined, Prefix segments and Adjacency</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">111<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 segmen=
ts.=C2=A0 Prefix segments, by default, represent an ECMP-aware</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">112<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:p=
re">	</span> =C2=A0 shortest-path to a prefix, as per the state of the IGP =
topology.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">113<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Adjacency segments represent a ho=
p over a specific adjacency between</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">114<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 two nod=
es in the IGP.=C2=A0 A prefix segment is typically a multi-hop path</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">115<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 while an adjacency segment, in most of the cases, =
is a one-hop path.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">116<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [RFC8402].</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] rfc8402 defines=
 more than 2 IGP segments.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/one-hop path. [RFC8402]./one-hop path [RFC8402].=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">118<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 When S=
egment Routing is enabled in a IGP domain, segments are</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">119<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</=
span> =C2=A0 advertised in the form of Segment Identifiers (SIDs).=C2=A0 Th=
e IGP link-</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">120<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 state routing protocols have be=
en extended to advertise SIDs and</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">121<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 other SR-=
related information.=C2=A0 IGP extensions are described in: IS-IS</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">122<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions], OSPFv2</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">123<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"wh=
ite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] a=
nd OSPFv3</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">124<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-rou=
ting-extensions].=C2=A0 Using these</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">125<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 extensi=
ons, Segment Routing can be enabled within an IGP domain.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/a IGP domain/an=
 IGP domain</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">127<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">128<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=
 =C2=A0Consumer =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">129<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-------=
-----+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">130<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" sty=
le=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ^</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">131<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">132<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 v</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">133<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 +-------------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">134<span class=3D"=
Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP Spe=
aker =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-----------+</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">135<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 | (Route-Reflector) | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Consumer =
=C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">136<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" st=
yle=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-------------------+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 +-----------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">137<span class=3D"A=
pple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ^=
 =C2=A0 ^ =C2=A0 ^ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ^</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">138<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =
=C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">139<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +---------------+ =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 +-------------------+ =C2=
=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">140<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0=
 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">141<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 v =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 v =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 v =C2=A0=
 v</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">142<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-----------+ =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 +-----------+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-------=
----+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">143<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">144<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0Speaker =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0Speaker =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0. . . =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0=
Speaker =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">145<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-----------+=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-----------+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 +-----------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">146<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 ^ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 ^ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ^</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">147<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">148<span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0IGP =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IGP =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=
GP</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">150<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Figure 1: Link State i=
nfo collection</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">[nit] Maybe move this Figure so it is closer to where it is referenc=
ed.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">159<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 In order to address the need for applicatio=
ns that require</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">160<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 topological visibility acro=
ss IGP areas, or even across Autonomous</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">161<=
span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Sys=
tems (AS), the BGP-LS address-family/sub-address-family have been</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">162<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 defined to allow BGP to carry Link-State information=
.=C2=A0 The BGP</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">163<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Network Layer Reachability =
Information (NLRI) encoding format for</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">164<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 BGP-=
LS and a new BGP Path Attribute called the BGP-LS attribute are</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">165<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
pre">	</span> =C2=A0 defined in [RFC7752].=C2=A0 The identifying key of eac=
h Link-State object,</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">166<span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 namely a node, link, o=
r prefix, is encoded in the NLRI and the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">167=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 pr=
operties of the object are encoded in the BGP-LS attribute.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">168<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 Figure 1 describes a typical deployment scenario.=C2=A0 In=
 each IGP area,</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">169<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 one or more nodes are confi=
gured with BGP-LS.=C2=A0 These BGP speakers</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
170<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0=
 form an IBGP mesh by connecting to one or more route-reflectors.</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">171<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 This way, all BGP speakers (specifically the route-r=
eflectors) obtain</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">172<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Link-State information fr=
om all IGP areas (and from other ASes from</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1=
73<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
EBGP peers).=C2=A0 An external component connects to the route-reflector</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px">174<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whi=
te-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 to obtain this information (perhaps moderated=
 by a policy regarding</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">175<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 what information is =
or isn&#39;t advertised to the external component).</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] The way that the propag=
ation of information can be controlled by policy is important.=C2=A0 Please=
 make sure that the text is clear in the fact that the discussion above is =
referencing rfc7752 (and that the reference to it is not just about the enc=
odings).</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>177<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 This document describes extensions to BGP-LS to advertise the SR</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">178<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 information.=C2=A0 An external component (e.g., a=
 controller) then can</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">179<span class=3D"Appl=
e-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 collect SR informatio=
n from across an SR domain and construct the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>180<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 end-to-end path (with its associated SIDs) that need to be applied to</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">181<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"wh=
ite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 an incoming packet to achieve the desired en=
d-to-end forwarding.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">182<span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Here the SR domain is =
defined as a single administrative domain that</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">183<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 may be comprised of a single AS or multiple ASes under consolidated</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">184<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 global SID administration.</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/under consolidated/=
under a consolidated</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">[major] Please don&#39;t redefine &quot;SR domain&quot;.=C2=A0=
 The definition above is not the same as what rfc8402 says (in =C2=A72).=C2=
=A0 Easy fix: simply put a reference to rfc8402 next to the first mention o=
f &quot;SR domain&quot;, and delete that last sentence.</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">186<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.=C2=A0 BGP-LS Extensions for Seg=
ment Routing</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">188<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 This document defines SR extensions to BGP-LS and specifies the TLVs=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">189<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 and sub-TLVs for advertising SR informatio=
n within the BGP-LS</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">190<span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Attribute.=C2=A0 Sectio=
n 2.4 and Section 2.5 illustrates the equivalent</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">191<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 TLVs and sub-TLVs in IS-IS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 protocols.</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] &quot;illustr=
ates&quot; sounds like giving examples of equivalent TLVs.=C2=A0 But I thin=
k that the tables don&#39;t show examples, they show/point to the correspon=
ding TLVs.=C2=A0 Perhaps use a different word...</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">200<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Some of the TLVs defined in this docu=
ment contain fields (e.g. flags)</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">201<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 whose sema=
ntics need to be interpreted accordingly to the respective</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">202<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 underlying IS-IS, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 protocol.=C2=A0 The rec=
eiver of the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">203<span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 BGP-LS update for any of the N=
LRIs MUST check the Protocol-ID of the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">204<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 NLRI=
 and refer to the underlying protocol specification in order to</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">205<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
pre">	</span> =C2=A0 parse such fields.=C2=A0 The individual field descript=
ions in the sub-</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">206<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 sections below point to th=
e relevant underlying protocol</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">207<span clas=
s=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 specificatio=
ns for such fields.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">[major] &quot;The receiver of the BGP-LS update for any of the =
NLRIs MUST check the Protocol-ID of the NLRI and refer to the underlying pr=
otocol specification in order to parse such fields.&quot; =C2=A0This text i=
s a general statement (&quot;for any of the NLRIs&quot;) that seems to want=
 to Update rfc7752, where Protocol-ID is defined...but I don&#39;t think th=
at is the intent, right?=C2=A0 Note that rfc7752 doesn&#39;t explicitly man=
date that the &quot;receiver...refer to the underlying protocol specificati=
on&quot; -- it just implies it when talking about the Opaque TLVs.</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">IOW, this seems =
like a significant change as related to other BGP-LS specs.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Note also that =C2=A75 =
(Manageability Considerations) has the following text, which I think is in =
contradiction of the one above:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0... =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The semantic or cont=
ent</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0checking for the TLVs speci=
fied in this document and their</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0association with the BGP-LS NLRI types or their BGP-LS Attribute is</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0left to the consumer of the BGP-LS =
information (e.g. an application</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0or a controller) and not the BGP protocol.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0... =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The handling of semantic or content errors by =
the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0consumer would be dictated =
by the nature of its application usage and</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hence is beyond the scope of this document.</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">209<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.1.=C2=A0 Node Attributes TLVs</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">211<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The foll=
owing Node Attribute TLVs are defined:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">213<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-=
----------------+----------+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>214<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Description =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =
Length =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section |</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">215<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-----------------+----------+=
---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">216<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SID/Label =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | variable | Section 2.1.=
1 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">217<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0| SR Capabilities | variable | Section 2.1.2 |</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">218<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SR Algorithm =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0| variable | Section 2.1.3 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">219<span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| SR Local Block =C2=A0| variable | Section =
2.1.4 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">220<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" st=
yle=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0| SRMS Preference | variable | Section 2.1.5 |</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">221<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</spa=
n> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-----------------+-----=
-----+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">223<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Table 1: Node Attribute TLVs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] It would be nice if the table al=
so contained the TLV Type.=C2=A0 This comment applies to other similar tabl=
es.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[min=
or] =C2=A72.1.2/2.1.3 use a &quot;-&quot; in the name of the TLV.=C2=A0 Ple=
ase be consistent as both versions are used throughout the document.</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] Yes, the=
 length is variable, but in some cases the possible values are known.=C2=A0=
 For example, the length of the SID/Label sub-TLV can only be 3 or 4.=C2=A0=
 Consider indicating that.=C2=A0 OTOH, I don&#39;t see why indicating the L=
ength is significant at this point -- IOW, I would even suggest removing th=
at column.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">225<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 These TLVs can ONLY be added to the BGP-LS Attribute associated with</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px">226<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whi=
te-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 the Node NLRI that originates the correspondi=
ng underlying IGP TLV/</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">227<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 sub-TLV described be=
low.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[mi=
nor] &quot;the Node NLRI that originates the corresponding underlying IGP..=
.&quot; =C2=A0The Node NLRI doesn&#39;t originate anything...it describes t=
he IGP node that originates something...=C2=A0 Please be specific.</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] The text=
 above sounds as if you want to mandate something...=C2=A0 Writing &quot;ON=
LY&quot; in caps doesn&#39;t have a Normative effect.=C2=A0 Should there be=
 a &quot;MUST&quot; somewhere?=C2=A0 Or perhaps soften a little: s/can ONLY=
/should only</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">The next question is: what if they are added somewhere else?=C2=A0 The=
re doesn&#39;t seem to be a way for the receiver to know if the TLVs are as=
sociated with the correct Node NLRI...=C2=A0 I&#39;m guessing that all the =
receiver can do is assume that the TLV is referring to the right node...</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">From the t=
ext, I&#39;m assuming that the use is intended to be limited to the Node NL=
RI.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, rfc7752 doesn&#39;t specify actions to be taken if=
 that is not the case.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">This comment applies to other places where the &quot;ONLY b=
e added&quot; phrase exists.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">229<span class=3D"=
Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.1.1.=C2=A0 SID/Label Su=
b-TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">23=
1<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 T=
he SID/Label TLV is used as sub-TLV by the SR-Capabilities</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">232<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 (Section 2.1.2) and SRLB (Section 2.1.4) TLVs and has the =
following</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">233<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 format:</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/used as sub-TLV/used as a=
 sub-TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>[minor] This is the first time that SRLB is used in this document, please =
use the extended version here: =C2=A0s/SRLB/SR Local Block (SRLB)</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">245<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Type: TBD, see Section 4.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] The code points=
 have already been assigned (early allocation).=C2=A0 Please change &quot;T=
BD&quot; for the actual values.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">247<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Length: Variable, 3 or 4.</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] The Length is=
 really not variable...it&#39;s 3 or 4.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">254<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0The receiving router MUST ignore the SID/Label sub-TLV if the</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">255<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0length is other then 3 or 4.</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] If the s=
ub-TLV is ignored, the information in the SR-Capabilities or SR Local Block=
 TLVs will be incomplete (at best).=C2=A0 What is the potential impact of t=
hat?=C2=A0 Is the received information still useful?=C2=A0 Should other act=
ions be taken?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">257<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=
2.1.2.=C2=A0 SR-Capabilities TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">259<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The SR-Capabilities TLV is used in order to adver=
tise the node&#39;s SR</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">260<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Capabilities includi=
ng its Segment Routing Global Base (SRGB)</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">26=
1<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 r=
ange(s).=C2=A0 In the case of IS-IS, the capabilities also include the</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">262<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 IPv4 and IPv6 support for SR-MPLS forwarding pl=
ane.=C2=A0 This information</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">263<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 is derived fr=
om the protocol specific advertisements.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/support for SR-MPLS forwarding pla=
ne/support for the SR-MPLS forwarding plane</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">265<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 o =C2=A0IS-IS, as defined by the SR-Ca=
pabilities sub-TLV in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">266<span class=3D"Appl=
e-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.iet=
f-isis-segment-routing-extensions].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">268<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 o =C2=A0OSPFv2/OSPFv3, as defined by the SID/L=
abel Range TLV in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">269<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-os=
pf-segment-routing-extensions] and</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">270<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] The text above, po=
inting at the individual IGP specs is present in many of the descriptions f=
or the TLVs, but not all.=C2=A0 Sections 2.4/2.5 have tables that also poin=
t at the equivalent TLVs.=C2=A0 I&#39;m looking for consistency: either ind=
icate in each section where the information is derived from, or not.=C2=A0 =
Given that =C2=A72.4/2.5 already have a summary, I personally find the info=
rmation (like the one above) in the individual sections redundant.=C2=A0 In=
stead of the statement above, I prefer you to be specific about the values =
described below -- for example, when describing the Range Size field below,=
 you could say something like this:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">OLD&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Range Size: 3 octet value indicating the number of labels in</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0the range.</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">NEW&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Range Size: 3 octet value indicating the number of labels i=
n</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0the range.=C2=A0 The value an=
d characteristics of this field are derived from the Range field in the SR-=
Capabilities sub-TLV in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions], or from=
 the Range Size field in the SID/Label Range TLV in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-=
routing-extensions] and [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Note tha=
t doing it this way saves you the need to define the characteristics of eac=
h field (because even if the values are derived, the TLVs here are new).</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">This comme=
nt obviously applies to all similar instances in the document.</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">272<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The SR Capabilities=
 TLV has following format:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/has following format/has the following format</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">290<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
Length: Variable.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">[major] Yes, it&#39;s variable, but it has to be at least 12.=C2=
=A0 What should a router do if the length is &lt; 12?=C2=A0 After that, the=
re are only specific valid lengths: 12, 13, 19, 21, etc.=C2=A0 What if the =
length is not one of those values?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">I couldn&#39;t find guidance in rfc7752.=C2=A0 T=
he closest statement is from =C2=A76.2.2 (Fault Management), where one of t=
he &quot;checks for determining if a message is malformed...Does any fixed-=
length TLV correspond to the TLV Length field in this document?&quot; =C2=
=A0This TLV is not fixed-length, but the possibilities are finite.</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Note that rfc775=
2 says that if the length is not the expected one, then the whole BGP-LS at=
tribute is discarded.=C2=A0 For this specific case, it means that the contr=
oller wouldn&#39;t have complete knowledge of the network, even if the info=
rmation derived from the IGP is correct...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">This comment applies to other similar in=
stances.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>292<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Flags: 1 octet of flags as defined in</div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">293<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions].</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] When t=
he BGP-LS information comes from OSPF, how should the flags be interpreted?=
=C2=A0 There is no indication in the corresponding OSPF drafts of &quot;IPv=
4 and IPv6 support for SR-MPLS&quot; -- should the bits always be unset?</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">300<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 Range Size: 3 octet value indicating the number of labels in</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">301<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the range.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/labels/labels o=
r SIDs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[=
major] What numbers are valid in the Range Size field?=C2=A0 Can it be 0?=
=C2=A0 Take a look above at my comments about derived values.</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">303<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 SID/Label sub-TLV (as defined in Section 2.1.1) which encodes</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">304<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:p=
re">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the first label in the range.</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/firs=
t label/first label or SID</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">339<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span>2.1.4.=C2=A0 SR Local Block TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">380<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Flags: 1 octet of flags.=C2=
=A0 None are defined at this stage.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] Only the corresponding ISIS sub-TLV has=
 Flags defined -- and I realize that the text above is the same as in draft=
-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions.=C2=A0 I think you really don&#39;t w=
ant this field to evolve independently.=C2=A0 IOW, please use a description=
 like the you used for the Flags in the SR-Capabilities TLV.</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">393<span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.1.5.=C2=A0 SRMS Preference TL=
V</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">427<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The us=
e of the SRMS Preference TLV is defined in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">4=
28<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
[I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
429<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0=
 [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">430<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] This document o=
nly defines how to carry information in BGP-LS, not what to do with it.=C2=
=A0 IOW, I think that the last paragraph is not needed, it is out of scope =
of this document...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">432<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</=
span>2.2.=C2=A0 Link Attribute TLVs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">434<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The following Link Attribute TLVs are are defi=
ned:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">436=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +-=
---------------------------------------+----------+---------------+</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">437<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | Description =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 Leng=
th | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">438<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +------=
----------------------------------+----------+---------------+</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">439<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:p=
re">	</span> =C2=A0 | Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj-SID) | variable | S=
ection 2.2.1 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">440<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | TLV =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>441<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 | LAN Adjacency Segment Identifier (Adj- | variable | Section 2.2.2 |</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">442<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"wh=
ite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | SID) TLV =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">443<span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | L2 Bundle Member TLV =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | variable | Sectio=
n 2.2.3 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">444<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +--------------------------------=
--------+----------+---------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px">446<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whi=
te-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Table 2: Link Attribute TLVs</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] The names used above =
don&#39;t match the names used in the sections below.</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">452<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 For a LAN, normally a node only announces its adjacency to the IS-IS=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">453<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 pseudo-node (or the equivalent OSPF Design=
ated and Backup Designated</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">454<span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Routers)[I-D.iet=
f-isis-segment-routing-extensions].=C2=A0 The LAN</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">455<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 Adjacency Segment TLV allows a node to announce adjacencies to all</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">456<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"wh=
ite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 other nodes attached to the LAN in a single =
instance of the BGP-LS</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">457<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Link NLRI.=C2=A0 Wit=
hout this TLV, the corresponding BGP-LS link NLRI</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">458<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 would need to be originated for each additional adjacency in order t=
o</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">459<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 advertise the SR TLVs for these neighbor =
adjacencies.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">[minor] This paragraph maybe fits better in =C2=A72.2.2.</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">461<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span>2.2.1.=C2=A0 Adjacency SID TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">482<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Flags. 1 octet field of follow=
ing flags as defined in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">483<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.i=
etf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">484<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">485<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	<=
/span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions=
].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">NEW&g=
t;</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Flags: 1 octet field.=C2=A0 =
The value corresponds to the Flags specified for the</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Adj-SID Sub-TLV in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-ext=
ensions],</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-segmen=
t-routing-extensions] or</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.i=
etf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">487<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Weight: Weight used for =
load-balancing purposes.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">[minor] Similar to the above text...</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">489<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Reserved: 2 oct=
ets that SHOULD be set to 0 and MUST be ignored on</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">490<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0receipt.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">492<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SID/Index/Label: Label or index value d=
epending on the flags</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">493<span class=3D"Appl=
e-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0setting =
as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions],</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">494<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] an=
d</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">495<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segmen=
t-routing-extensions].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">[minor] Similar text here too...</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
">497<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.2.2=
.=C2=A0 LAN Adjacency SID TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">[major] The OSPF Neighbor ID / IS-IS System-ID field i=
s not defined.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">542<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.2.3.=C2=A0 L2 Bundle Member</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/L2 Bundle=
 Member/L2 Bundle Member Attribute TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">544<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The L2 Bundle Member Attribute TLV identifi=
es an L2 Bundle Member</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">545<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 link which in turn i=
s associated with a parent L3 link.=C2=A0 The L3 link</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">546<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</sp=
an> =C2=A0 is described by the Link NLRI defined in [RFC7752] and the L2 Bu=
ndle</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">547<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Member Attribute TLV is associated wit=
h the Link NLRI.=C2=A0 The TLV MAY</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">548<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 include =
sub-TLVs which describe attributes associated with the bundle</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">549<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 member.=C2=A0 The identified bundle member represents a =
unidirectional</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">550<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 path from the originating ro=
uter to the neighbor specified in the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">551<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 paren=
t L3 Link.=C2=A0 Multiple L2 Bundle Member Attribute TLVs MAY be</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">552<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 associated with a Link NLRI.</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] &quot;identifies an L2 B=
undle Member link...The identified bundle member&quot;.=C2=A0 Are we talkin=
g about a link or just the members?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">574<span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0L2 Bundle Member Descriptor: A Link Local Identifier as defined in</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">575<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC4202].</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] From the text, it looks =
like this information is not something that is learned from the IGP, which =
is then just transported by BGP-LS (just like the rest of the TLVs in this =
document), but table 5 points at draft-ietf-isis-l2bundles.=C2=A0 Why is dr=
aft-ietf-isis-l2bundles not used to describe this TLV?</div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] rfc4202 is not IS-IS=
-specific.=C2=A0 What about OSPF?=C2=A0 I note that rfc4203 defines OSPF ex=
tensions that include the Link Local Identifier, so this concept is not for=
eign to it.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">577<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 Link attributes for L2 Bundle Member Links are advertised as sub-TLV=
s</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">578<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 of the L2Bundle Member Attribute TLV.=C2=
=A0 The sub-TLVs are identical to</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">579<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 existing =
BGP-LS TLVs as identified in the table below.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/L2Bundle/L2 Bundle</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">633<span class=3D"Appl=
e-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.3.1.=C2=A0 Prefix-SID TLV</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] dr=
aft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions also includes the MT-ID in the Pre=
fix SID Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 Is that not needed by a controller?</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">691<span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.3.2.=C2=A0 Prefix Attribute =
Flags TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>711<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Length: variable.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] The length of the flags fields in rfc779=
4/rfc7684 are both one octet long.=C2=A0 Can this length be made fixed?</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] I c=
ould not find a Flags field for OSPFv3 in rfc5340.</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] From Table 7, it seems t=
hat the reference to rfc8362 points to the &quot;Prefix Options Field&quot;=
, is that correct?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">713<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Flags: a variable length flag field (according to =
the length</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">714<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0field).=C2=A0 Flags=
 are routing protocol specific and are to be parsed</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">715<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span=
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as below:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">717<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* =C2=A0IS-IS flags are defined in [R=
FC7794]</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
719<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* =C2=A0OSPFv2 flags are defined in [RFC7684]</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">721<span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* =C2=A0O=
SPFv3 flags map to the Prefix Options field defined in</div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">722<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC7794] and extended via [RFC8362]</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] The tex=
t at the top of this section refers to rfc5340...</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] rfc7794 only talks about =
IS-IS, not OSPFv3.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">724<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.3.3.=C2=A0 Source Router Identifi=
er (Source Router-ID) TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">726<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 The Source Router-ID TLV contains the IPv4 or IPv6 Route=
r-ID of the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">727<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 originator of the Prefix.=C2=A0=
 For IS-IS protocol this is as defined in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">72=
8<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [=
RFC7794].=C2=A0 The Source Router-ID TLV may be used to carry the OSPF</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">729<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Router-ID of the prefix originator.</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] Reference f=
or OSPF?=C2=A0 Only &quot;may&quot;??</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] rfc7752 defines the IGP Router-ID TLV=
 to carry the same information.=C2=A0 What is the relationship between thes=
e two TLVs?=C2=A0 Since the IGP Router-ID TLV is mandatory, are there cases=
 where this one may not be needed?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">745<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Length: 4 or 16.</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] OSPF always uses a 32=
-bit number.=C2=A0 IOW, the length is fixed for OSPF.</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">749<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2=
.3.4.=C2=A0 Range TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">751<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 The range TLV is used in order to advertise a range of pre=
fix-to-SID</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">752<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 mappings as part of the Segment =
Routing Mapping Server functionality</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">753<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.i=
etf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop], as defined in the</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">754<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 respective underlying IGP SR extensions</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">755<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	<=
/span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions],</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">756<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions] and</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">757<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions].=C2=
=A0 The Prefix-NLRI to which</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">758<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 the Range TLV=
 is attached MUST be advertised as a non-routing prefix</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">759<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</=
span> =C2=A0 where no IGP metric TLV (TLV 1095) is attached.</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] What do you me=
an in the final sentence?=C2=A0 It sounds as if the IGP metric TLV and the =
Range TLV are mutually exclusive and should never be advertised together.=
=C2=A0 Is that it?=C2=A0 If so, what should the receiver do if they are?</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">761<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The format of the Range TLV is as follows:</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">763<span clas=
s=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
764<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0=
 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">765<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">766<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Type =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Length =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">767<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-=
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">76=
8<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 |=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Flags =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Reserved =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Range Size =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">769<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">770<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 // =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0su=
b-TLVs =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 //</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">771<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">773<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 where:</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] That &quot;where&quot; s=
hould be after the Figure title.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">775<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Figure 2: Range TLV format</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] As will all the other sec=
tions, please be consistent and fold the sub-sections below into the descri=
ption above.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">804<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.=
3.4.1.=C2=A0 Advertisement Procedure for OSPF</div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">806<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" sty=
le=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The OSPFv2/OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Ra=
nge TLV is encoded in the Range</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">807<span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 TLV.=C2=A0 =
The flags of the Range TLV have the semantic mapped to the</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">808<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 definition in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] s=
ection 4 or</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">809<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-r=
outing-extensions] section 4.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">811<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Then the prefix-to-SID mapping from the OSPF Prefix =
SID sub-TLV is</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">812<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 encoded using the BGP-LS Pre=
fix-SID TLV as defined in Section 2.3.1</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">813<=
span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 wit=
h the flags set according to the definition in</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">814<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] section 5 or</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">815<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions] section =
5.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[majo=
r] The Extended Prefix Range TLV contains other fields not present here: AF=
, for instance.=C2=A0 The last paragraph seems to indicate that the prefix =
information will be in the BGP-LS Prefix-SID TLV, but that information does=
n&#39;t come from the Extended Prefix Range TLV (and it doesn&#39;t include=
 the AF).=C2=A0 What am I missing?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] The text above seems to imply that the R=
ange TLV and the Prefix-SID TLV should always be included together.=C2=A0 I=
s that true?=C2=A0 If so, please make it more explicit.</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">817<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.3.4.2.=C2=A0 Advertisement Proce=
dure for IS-IS</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">819<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=
 =C2=A0 The IS-IS SID/Label Binding TLV, when used to signal mapping server=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">820<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 label bindings, is encoded in the Range TL=
V.=C2=A0 The flags of the Range</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">821<span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 TLV have th=
e sematic mapped to the definition in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">822<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.=
ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions] section 2.4.1.</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">824<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Then the prefix-to-SID mappin=
gs from the IS-IS Prefix SID sub-TLV is</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">825<=
span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 enc=
oded using the BGP-LS Prefix-SID TLV as defined in Section 2.3.1</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">826<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 with the flags set according to the definition in</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">827<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions] sec=
tion 2.4.4.1.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">[major] Same questions (as above) related to the other fields in the =
SID/Label Binding TLV, and the relationship between the Range TLV and the P=
refix-SID TLV.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">829<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.4.=C2=A0 Equivalent IS-IS Segment Rou=
ting TLVs/Sub-TLVs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">837<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</sp=
an> =C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+----------+------------=
----+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">838<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | Description =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Len=
gth =C2=A0 | IS-IS TLV/sub- |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">839<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0| TLV =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">840<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+----------+------=
----------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">841<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | SR Capabilities =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | variable =
| 2 [1] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
842<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0=
 | SR Algorithm =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| variable | 19 [2] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">843<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | SR Local Block =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| variable |=
 22 [3] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">844<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | SRM=
S Preference =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 19 [4] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">845<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | Adjacency Segment Identifier (A=
dj- =C2=A0 =C2=A0| variable | 31 [5] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">846<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | SID) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">847<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | LAN Adjacency Segm=
ent Identifier =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| variable | 32 [6] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">848<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | (LAN-Adj-SID) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">849<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | Prefix SID =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0| variable | 3 [7] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">850<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 | Range =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | variable |=
 149 [8] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">851<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | SID=
/Label TLV =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | variable | 1 [9] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">852<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | Prefix Attribute Flags =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| variable | 4 [10] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">853<span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | Source Router ID =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| variabl=
e | 11/12 [11] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">854<span clas=
s=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 | L2 Bundle =
Member TLV =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =
variable | 25 [12] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">855<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 +---------------------------------------+----------+----------------=
+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major=
] Instead of using URIs, please put an explicit pointer to the RFC/ID (and =
if desired, the section)...and make sure that there are corresponding Refer=
ences.=C2=A0 If a document is referenced only in this table, then the Refer=
ence can be Informative.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">[nit] For Tables 5-7: No need to use &quot;TLV&quot; in th=
e description.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px">857<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Table 5: IS-IS Segment Routing Extension=
s TLVs/Sub-TLVs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">859<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span=
>2.5.=C2=A0 Equivalent OSPFv2/OSPFv3 Segment Routing TLVs/Sub-TLVs</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">886<span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Table 6: OSPF Segment Routing Extensions TLVs/Sub-TLVs</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/OSPF/OS=
PFv2</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[mi=
nor] The OSPF tables don&#39;t include the Source Router ID or the L2 Bundl=
e Member TLVs.=C2=A0 Is there a reason for that, or just an oversight?</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">908<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span>3.=C2=A0 Implementation Status</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] This section says nothing. :-(=
 =C2=A0 At least a pointer to <a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wik=
i/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-implementations">https://trac.i=
etf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-implementat=
ions</a> might be nice.=C2=A0 OR, you can just remove it.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">943<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>4.=C2=A0 IANA Considerations</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">945<span clas=
s=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 This documen=
t requests assigning code-points from the registry &quot;BGP-</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">946<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, =
and Attribute</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">947<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 TLVs&quot; based on table Tab=
le 8.=C2=A0 The column &quot;IS-IS TLV/Sub-TLV&quot; defined</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">948<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 in the registry does not require any value and should be =
left empty.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">[major] The early allocation has already been done...so this document d=
oesn&#39;t request assignment from IANA.=C2=A0 Please update.</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">977<span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>5.=C2=A0 Manageability Consider=
ations</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">9=
79<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
This section is structured as recommended in [RFC5706].</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">981<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The new protocol extension=
s introduced in this document augment the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">98=
2<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 e=
xisting IGP topology information that was distributed via [RFC7752].</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">983<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Procedures and protocol extensions defined in thi=
s document do not</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">984<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 affect the BGP protocol o=
perations and management other than as</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">985<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 disc=
ussed in the Manageability Considerations section of [RFC7752].</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">986<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Specifically, the malformed attribute tests for syntac=
tic checks in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">987<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 the Fault Management section =
of [RFC7752] now encompass the new BGP-</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">988<=
span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 LS =
Attribute TLVs defined in this document.=C2=A0 The semantic or content</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">989<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 checking for the TLVs specified in this documen=
t and their</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">990<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 association with the BGP-LS NLR=
I types or their BGP-LS Attribute is</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">991<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 left t=
o the consumer of the BGP-LS information (e.g. an application</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px">992<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 or a controller) and not the BGP protocol.</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/that was dist=
ributed/that is distributed</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">994<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
pre">	</span> =C2=A0 A consumer of the BGP-LS information is retrieving thi=
s information</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">995<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 from a BGP protocol component=
 that is doing the signaling over a BGP-</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">996=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 LS=
 session, via some APIs or a data model (refer Section 1 and 2 of</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">997<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [RFC7752]).=C2=A0 The handling of semantic or conten=
t errors by the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">998<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 consumer would be dictated =
by the nature of its application usage and</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">9=
99<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
hence is beyond the scope of this document.=C2=A0 This document only</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">1000<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 introduces new Attribute TLVs and an error in th=
em would result in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1001<span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 only that specific attr=
ibute being discarded with an error log.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/is retrieving this/retrieves this<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] =
&quot;...retrieving this information...over a BGP-LS session, via some APIs=
 or a data model (refer Section 1 and 2 of [RFC7752]).&quot; =C2=A0I think =
that even mentioning that an API or data model can be used instead of BGP-L=
S is a stretch -- that is not how I interpret the initial sections in rfc77=
52 (which are just background sections), and there are no formal API/data m=
odel definition.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">[major] &quot;...new Attribute TLVs and an error in them would res=
ult in only that specific attribute being discarded with an error log.&quot=
; =C2=A0According to rfc7752, this statement is true only for syntactic err=
ors, not semantic ones.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">Semantic errors (&quot;left to the consumer&quot;, as menti=
oned above) means that the BGP-LS session can be used to transport trash (t=
rash-in-trash-out).=C2=A0 Jeff Haas brought this up during the WGLC [4].=C2=
=A0 I agree (with the Chairs&#39; conclusion) that this issue is bigger tha=
n this document -- but (because we don&#39;t have a current solution) I wou=
ld like to see it mentioned somewhere as a potential issue (maybe in the Ma=
nagement or Security Considerations sections, your choice).</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[4] <a href=3D"https://=
mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Yfp6WyqnRtMAOeZvSvK7rYCUkHg">https://mail=
archive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Yfp6WyqnRtMAOeZvSvK7rYCUkHg</a></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] rfc7752 does =
mandate the use of &quot;attribute discard&quot; (rfc7606). I would really =
like to see a discussion (or at least a mention) around the fact that disca=
rding an attribute may result in the receiver not having complete informati=
on.=C2=A0 In the case of SR, this implies that the controller may not have =
complete information to calculate the paths.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">I think this is an issue bigger than t=
his document, so I am not asking you to solve it...I&#39;m just asking for =
the document to acknowledge that it exists and to mention what the potentia=
l impact may be.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1003<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The extensions, specified in=
 this document, do not introduce any new</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">100=
4<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 c=
onfiguration or monitoring aspects in BGP or BGP-LS other than as</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">1005<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 discussed in [RFC7752].=C2=A0 The manageability asp=
ects of the underlying</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1006<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 SR features are cov=
ered by [I-D.ietf-spring-sr-yang],</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1007<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [I-D.ie=
tf-isis-sr-yang] and [I-D.ietf-ospf-sr-yang].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] While the Yang models have to=
 do with management, there are no &quot;manageability aspects of the underl=
ying SR features&quot; included there.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] Following the recommendations from r=
fc5706, a Fault Management section would be appropriate to include consider=
ations related to the use of BGP-LS as a transport for SR information (give=
n this is the first draft to propose it), and the possible errors mentioned=
 here...=C2=A0 Again, not looking for solutions, just acknowledgement.</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px">1009<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span>6.=C2=A0 Security Considerations</div><div style=3D"margi=
n:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1011<span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The new protocol extensions in=
troduced in this document augment the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1012<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 exis=
ting IGP topology information that was distributed via [RFC7752].</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">1013<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The Security Considerations section of [RFC7752] al=
so applies to</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1014<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 these extensions.=C2=A0 The =
procedures and new TLVs defined in this</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1015=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 do=
cument, by themselves, do not affect the BGP-LS security model</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">1016<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
pre">	</span> =C2=A0 discussed in [RFC7752].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/that was distributed/that is d=
istributed</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">1018<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 BGP-LS SR extensions enable traffic engineering use-cases within the=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1019<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Segment Routing domain.=C2=A0 SR operates=
 within a trusted domain (refer</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1020<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Security C=
onsiderations section in [RFC8402] for more detail) and its</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">1021<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 security considerations also apply to BGP-LS sessions whe=
n carrying</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1022<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 SR information.The SR traffic e=
ngineering policies using the SIDs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1023<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 adverti=
sed via BGP-LS are expected to be used entirely within this</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">1024<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 trusted SR domain (e.g. between multiple AS/domains withi=
n a single</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1025<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 provider network).=C2=A0 Theref=
ore, precaution is necessary to ensure that</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
1026<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 the SR information collected via BGP-LS is limited to specific</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">1027<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 controllers or applications in a secure manner wit=
hin this SR domain.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">[nit] s/trusted domain (refer Security Considerations section i=
n [RFC8402] for more detail)/trusted domain [RFC8402]</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/SR information.The SR=
 traffic/SR information. The SR traffic</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] &quot;SR operates within a trusted =
domain...[RFC8402]...and its security considerations also apply to BGP-LS s=
essions when carrying SR information.&quot; =C2=A0The Security Consideratio=
ns in rfc8404 really only talk about the data plane -- I don&#39;t see how =
they apply to the BGP-LS sessions.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] &quot;...precaution is necessary to ensu=
re that the SR information collected via BGP-LS is limited to specific cont=
rollers or applications...&quot; =C2=A0This sounds as if you&#39;re referri=
ng to information that (once collected) can be shared between controllers -=
- I think that case is out of scope.=C2=A0 If you are trying to talk about =
the BGP sessions, then I think the language needs a little more work.=C2=A0=
 BTW, the paragraph below also talks about BGP sessions; suggestion: keep t=
he common topics together.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">[major] The end of the last sentence says &quot;...in a =
secure manner within this SR domain&quot;.=C2=A0 Assuming that we&#39;re ta=
lking about BGP sessions, what does that mean?=C2=A0 Does it mean anything =
beyond what BGP is normally specified to do?=C2=A0 If not, then I would rec=
ommend taking that piece of text out to not invite more questions than need=
ed.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[min=
or] You talk about &quot;controllers or applications&quot;, but in the rest=
 of the document you have mostly used &quot;consumer&quot; (which is a good=
 thing because it shows consistency with rfc8402).=C2=A0 Suggestion: use &q=
uot;consumers&quot; here as well.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">1029<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The isolation of BGP-LS peering sessions is als=
o required to ensure</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1030<span class=3D"Appl=
e-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 that BGP-LS topology =
information (including the newly added SR</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">10=
31<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
information) is not advertised to an external BGP peering session</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">1032<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 outside an administrative domain.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] What does &quot=
;isolation of BGP-LS peering sessions&quot; mean?=C2=A0 Why is it not Norma=
tively REQUIRED?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px">[major] From prior experience (see draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp), the =
SecDir/Sec ADs asked for text related to why it is ok to transport the new =
information in BGP.=C2=A0 This is the text that resulted from that discussi=
on:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0The TLVs introduced in this document are used to propagate IGP</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0defined information ([I-D.ietf-ls=
r-isis-rfc7810bis] and [RFC7471].)</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0These TLVs represent the state and resource availability of the IGP</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0link.=C2=A0 The IGP instances or=
iginating these TLVs are assumed to</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0support all the required security and authentication mechanisms (as</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0described in [I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-=
rfc7810bis] and [RFC7471]) in order</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0to prevent any security issue when propagating the TLVs into BGP-LS.<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0The advertisement of the link a=
ttribute information defined in this</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0document presents no additional risk beyond that associated with the<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0existing set of link attribute =
information already supported in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0[RFC7752].</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">Note that this text is complementary to what is already stated in the=
 first paragraph -- but goes into a more explicit explanation and brings in=
 the security considerations from the documents where the IGP extensions ar=
e defined.=C2=A0 Consider adding something similar here.</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1126<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>9.2.=C2=A0 Informative References</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1159<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [RFC8402]=
 =C2=A0Filsfils, C., Ed., Previdi, S., Ed., Ginsberg, L.,</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">1160<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Decraene, B., Li=
tkowski, S., and R. Shakir, &quot;Segment</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">11=
61<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Routing Architecture&quot;, RFC 84=
02, DOI 10.17487/RFC8402,</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1162<span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0July 2018, &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor=
.org/info/rfc8402">https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8402</a>&gt;.</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] I think=
 this should be a Normative reference.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1164<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>9.3.=C2=A0 URI=
s</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major=
] As mentioned before, please use References (above) instead of URIs.</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1197<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 [12] <a href=
=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-l2bundles-07">http://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-l2bundles-07</a></div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] The reference should become N=
ormative (see =C2=A72.2.3).</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;=
font-size:13px"><br></div></div><div class=3D"bloop_container"><div class=
=3D"bloop_frame">  </div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></b=
ody></html>

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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/PNI1iB_mpVydvrp6IuPQO5z9PUs>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:=20

=20

I=92d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on =
comments
(public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this =
draft
in our last WG LCs.  =20

=20

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other
questions.   This gets into a catch-22=85 problem =96 where you put =
changes in
for one person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic =
circles
this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go =
in,
reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I=92m =
I am
going to answer most of your questions where this is the case. =20

=20

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=92ve indicated.  =
I=92m
hoping he=92ll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant
implementations.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

<shepherd hat on>=20

This draft=92s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application
by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether =93chunking=94 BGP to 4096 =
byte
messages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is =
more
effective for a particular application is something only an implementer =
of a
particular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives =
freedom
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message =
size.
The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.  =20

=20

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which
=93chunks=94 BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial =
rework of
the implementation. =20

=20

=20

(snip)=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

>Please find below some comments.

>As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed
to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eimple=
men
tations> >implementations says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..=20

>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension =
for
a niche use case. So I don=92t see the >arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should
have indicate

>full support.   I=92m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last =
point,
but my understanding is that=20

All implementations have full support. =20

=20

>----

>=A7 1

>=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

>   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

>=20

>
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

>[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP =
Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. Can we have an =
update
on this?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages =
>be
updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=92s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.
The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How is this =
working
in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question. =20

=20

The real problem is there is finite message space. =20

=20

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =96 to =
=93chunk=94
these into small message sizes or place these into a large message.    =
Some
applications may always want to =93chunk=94 into message sizes smaller =
than
4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large =
message
size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new
applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way =
to
exchange amounts of BGP data.   =20

=20

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer
decision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the =
BGP
message it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this
draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of
basic BGP implementations =96 so I do not believe adding these facts to
Randy=92s draft is useful.  In fact, in the previous rounds of review =
this
point was made.=20

=20

Your question (and perhaps Jakob=92s) is whether we have reached a =
time/place
where the =93chunking=94 approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis?   =
This
draft does not make this statement. =20

=20

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing
the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .   =
The
choice to =93chunk=94 or stream in large BGP message is an =
implementation choice
for a particular BGP application. =20

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

=20

[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version =
4
[upcoming below]]/.=20

=20

--------------

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

=20

=20

----

>=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

>   maximum message size into account.=94

>=20

>I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

Bruno =96 people asked to put this text in as an operational warning.  =
At this
point, I=92m going to say unless there is harm it should remain. =20

=20

----

>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the

>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

>=20

>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

>Please elaborate on what you mean by=20

>=20

>=93an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length
6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be
included.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers =
create a
=93killer application=94 that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of =
the
Internet does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that
attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.=20

=20

This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases =
of a
large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not
provide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  =93warning =
label=94
into the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text =
gets
to be problematic.=20

=20

>---

>=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

>   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

>=20

>What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension?=20

>That they don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.=20

=20

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer =
by
peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that =
does
not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be =
reformatted
to the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as =
the
default could cause problems.=20

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the =
size
of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
?>case?
This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a =
case
of error handling, as every BGP=20

> speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and
attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A =
which
connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP =
peer
C with extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.  =


=20

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does
not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define
how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the =
current
set of specifications.  =20

=20

>----

>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
>being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant consequences on =
the
availability provided by the network.

=20

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit
within 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to =
have
it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc). =20

=20

---

>=A74

>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages =
except
for the >OPEN message.=20

>Probably

>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types =
except
for the >OPEN message (type 1).=20

>----

>=A78

>=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified =
how a
BGP=20
>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to =
a=20
>received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

>OLD : to reduce compexity

>NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
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Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
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electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I&#8217;d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based =
on comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd =
received on this draft in our last WG LCs. =
=A0=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other =
questions.=A0=A0 This gets into a catch-22&#8230; problem &#8211; where =
you put changes in for one person/take out the changes out for =
another.=A0 In academic circles this is called the reviewer #2 problem =
(reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go out) =
during publication. =A0Therefore, I&#8217;m I am going to answer most of =
your questions where this is the case.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I&#8217;ve =
indicated.=A0 I&#8217;m hoping he&#8217;ll just post that version.=A0 =
AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&lt;shepherd hat on&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This draft&#8217;s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application by allow a huge BGP message size. =A0Whether =
&#8220;chunking&#8221; BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large =
amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effective for a =
particular application is something only an implementer of a particular =
BGP implementation =A0can decide. =A0=A0This draft simply gives freedom =
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message =
size.=A0 The market place will choose whether this technology is used or =
not.=A0 =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation =
which &#8220;chunks&#8221; BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve =
substantial rework of the implementation.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(snip) <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%=
3eimplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-&gt;implementations</a> says : </span>5a =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Does not send Extended Message capability =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>implementations sends the capability =
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here this =
document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report =
should have indicate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;full support.=A0=A0 I&#8217;m waiting for Olivier to update based =
on the last point, but my understanding is that <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>All implementations have full support. =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>&gt; =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>Can we have an update on this?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> =A0</span>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'color:black'>be =
updated to introduce on the real =
reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>SIDR gave up waiting on IDR&#8217;s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.=A0=A0 The security people were very sad about the =
reduction.=A0 How is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer =
this question.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The real problem is there is finite message space.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =
&#8211; to &#8220;chunk&#8221; these into small message sizes or place =
these into a large message.=A0=A0 =A0Some applications may always want =
to &#8220;chunk&#8221; into message sizes smaller than 4096.=A0 =A0Some =
application make work more efficiently utilizing large message size. =
=A0As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new =
applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way =
to exchange amounts of BGP data.=A0=A0 =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a =
peer-by-peer decision in a network.=A0 =A0Each BGP peer is in charge of =
reformatting the BGP message it sends to the remote BGP peer.=A0=A0 The =
BGP capabilities in this draft represent an agreement between two BGP =
peers. =A0These are facts of basic BGP implementations &#8211; so I do =
not believe adding these facts to Randy&#8217;s draft is useful.=A0 In =
fact, in the previous rounds of review this point was made. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your question (and perhaps Jakob&#8217;s) is whether we have reached =
a time/place where the &#8220;chunking&#8221; approach will fail on a =
peer-by-peer basis? =A0=A0This draft does not make this statement.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. =
BGP-LS) .=A0=A0 The choice to &#8220;chunk&#8221; or stream in large BGP =
message is an implementation choice for a particular BGP application.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 says =
&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in =
version 4 [upcoming below]]/. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno &#8211; people asked to put this text in as an operational =
warning. =A0At this point, I&#8217;m going to say unless there is harm =
it should remain.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
096, irrespective of the size of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute =
to be included.=A0 =A0No such attribute exists today.=A0 =A0If a small =
BGP peers create a &#8220;killer application&#8221; that uses a 6000 =
byte attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have to use it.=A0=A0 =
However, the person defining that attribute must carefully specify it =
must go with Extended BGP messages. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error =
cases of a large BGP attribute was given.=A0 The originator of the =
common could not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put =
this =A0&#8220;warning label&#8221; into the draft.=A0=A0 This is one of =
the cases where adding/removing text gets to be problematic. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;T</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>hat they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This warning was text that other participants asked to be added. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is a common sense warning.=A0 Extended messages are enabled on a =
peer by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.=A0 If you run into a =
Peer that does not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need =
to be reformatted to the smaller size.=A0 =A0Running immediately to the =
Extended messages as the default could cause problems. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>?&gt;</span>case? This should be described =
in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, =
as every BGP <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I fail to see your logic.=A0 At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI =
and attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.=A0 =A0Therefore, a BGP =
peer A which connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on =
link to a BGP peer C with extended messages only has to worry about =
reformatting the data.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define how that works in the specification.=A0 There is no need to =
refine the current set of specifications.=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
nternet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible =
consequences could be BGP NLRI </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>b=
eing removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community =
(such as Route Targets) been removed. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
oth having significant consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not =
fit within 4096.=A0 =A0If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will =
need to have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups =
(GROW, etc).=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>messages bigger =
than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre =
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01A3_01D4C3A4.CE132100--


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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dear reviewer #2:

excuse, this has been in an edit buffer for weeks.

> [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr=
-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol>
> is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the n=
ormative/any reference to
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need=
 draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.=20
> Can we have an update on this?

extended-messages authors had $dayjobs and did not have the stamina for
the level of dos in the sidr wg.  they were desperate to get bgpsec our
the door and idr was holding them hostage.  and it's not like bgpsec is
just around the corner.

> Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be
> updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

would you like it if we threw in bgp-ls?  no extra charge.

> =A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP
>    Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."
>=20
> Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.
>=20
> OLD: A BGP speaker
>    MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
>    Extended Message Capability from that peer.
>=20
> NEW:
> A BGP speaker
>    MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and receive=
d the
>    Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

the intent was to allow simplexity, use of extended messages in one
direction only.  in retrospect, this may be too subtle/clever.  it could
be as you suggest if no one wants simplexity.

> "   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
>    within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
>    maximum message size into account."
>=20
> I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I w=
ould suggest to remove this sentence

it was added to reaffirm what to you is obvious.  unless you really
object, i see no harm in leaving it.

>    A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>    BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>    putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>=20
> The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to B=
GP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of ea=
ch attribute.
> Please elaborate on what you mean by "an attribute which can not be decom=
posed to 4096 octets"

a prefix announcement with 200 researcher-invents-massive-attribute? :)
[ nanog joke ]


> ---
> "   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
>    conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."
>=20
> What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension? That the=
y don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?
>=20
> ---
>   Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
>    peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.
>=20
> Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BG=
P mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the size=
 of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case? =
This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a cas=
e of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.
> ----
> Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operationa=
l consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN=
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI bein=
g removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as R=
oute Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the ava=
ilability provided by the network.
>=20
> ---
> =A74
> OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except =
for the OPEN message.
> Probably
> NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except =
for the OPEN message (type 1).
> ----
> =A78
>=20
> "This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =
=BB
>=20
> Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how =
a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent =
to a received not supporting this extension.
>=20
> Nits:
> OLD : to reduce compexity
> NEW : to reduce complexity

i took some edits, tyvm.

randy


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Extended Message support for BGP
        Authors         : Randy Bush
                          Keyur Patel
                          Dave Ward
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2019-02-13

Abstract:
   The BGP specification mandates a maximum BGP message size of 4096
   octets.  As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and other
   features, there is a need to extend the maximum message size beyond
   4096 octets.  This document updates the BGP specification RFC4271 by
   providing an extension to BGP to extend its current maximum message
   size from 4096 octets to 65535 octets for all except the OPEN
   message.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, idr@ietf.org
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From: Robert Varga <nite@hq.sk>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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From: Robert Varga <nite@hq.sk>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, idr@ietf.org
Message-ID: <f4b36fe8-9245-14d6-61a9-cabd7eacf57d@hq.sk>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Hello everyone,

On 29/01/2019 12:32, Susan Hares wrote:
> =A0
>=20
> This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
> (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).=A0 You can access the draft =
at:
>=20
> =A0
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
>=20
> =A0
>=20
> The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.=A0=A0 Impleme=
nters
> are encouraged to update the=A0 implementation data at:
>=20
> =A0
>=20
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-impleme=
ntations

I have updated the report with the behavior of OpenDaylight
implementation to the extent I could quickly ascertain. I suspect all 12
answers in the Management Information are either Yes, or N/A (in case of
CLI), but I currently do not have the cycles to make a definitive
answer, sorry :(

[snip]

> As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
> mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for
> those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
> publication.=20

As an implementer: we have implemented this extension many moons ago
based on a request from a real-life deployment. I believe the answer to
all three questions is yes.

Regards,
Robert


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From nobody Wed Feb 13 16:00:45 2019
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Robert:=20

The management section is option and standardization does not depend on =
that
portion of the implementation report.  It is extremely valuable =
information
that Opendaylight has yes or (n/a).=20

Susan Hares=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Varga [mailto:nite@hq.sk]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 6:42 PM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hello everyone,

On 29/01/2019 12:32, Susan Hares wrote:
> =A0
>=20
> This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP=20
> (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).=A0 You can access the draft =
at:
>=20
> =A0
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
>=20
> =A0
>=20
> The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.=A0=A0=20
> Implementers are encouraged to update the=A0 implementation data at:
>=20
> =A0
>=20
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implem
> entations

I have updated the report with the behavior of OpenDaylight =
implementation
to the extent I could quickly ascertain. I suspect all 12 answers in the
Management Information are either Yes, or N/A (in case of CLI), but I
currently do not have the cycles to make a definitive answer, sorry :(

[snip]

> As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is=20
> mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for=20
> those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =

> publication.

As an implementer: we have implemented this extension many moons ago =
based
on a request from a real-life deployment. I believe the answer to all =
three
questions is yes.

Regards,
Robert



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Subject: Re: [Idr] AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-11
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'" <jheitz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Sue,

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

I'd like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on comments (=
public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft=
 in our last WG LCs.

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other question=
s.   This gets into a catch-22... problem - where you put changes in for on=
e person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic circles this is=
 called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer=
 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I'm I am going t=
o answer most of your questions where this is the case.

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I've indicated.  I'm =
hoping he'll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implem=
entations.

Sue



<shepherd hat on>
This draft's technology provides efficient processing for some application =
by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether "chunking" BGP to 4096 byte mess=
ages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effe=
ctive for a particular application is something only an implementer of a pa=
rticular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives freedom =
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message size. =
 The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which "chu=
nks" BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the=
 implementation.


(snip)
From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hi WG,

>Please find below some comments.
>As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed =
to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended->implement=
ations<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3ei=
mplementations> says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the=
 above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the capability h=
ence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension fo=
r a niche use case. So I don't see the >arguments for not requiring the IDR=
's usual two interoperable implementations.

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should ha=
ve indicate
>full support.   I'm waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point,=
 but my understanding is that
All implementations have full support.

[Bruno] ok, solved
>----
>=A7 1
>" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
>   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgp=
sec-protocol>]), there is
>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1


>[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-=
bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 8205=
 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any >ref=
erence to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does =
not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. Can we have an update on th=
is?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >be updat=
ed to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR's work and took a reduced size of encryption.  =
 The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How is this workin=
g in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question.

The real problem is there is finite message space.
[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as messag=
e space is still limited)

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes - to "chunk=
" these into small message sizes or place these into a large message.    So=
me applications may always want to "chunk" into message sizes smaller than =
4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large message=
 size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new appli=
cations may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way to exchan=
ge amounts of BGP data.

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer de=
cision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP m=
essage it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this draf=
t represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of basic B=
GP implementations
[Bruno] Let's take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed of c=
lients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.
>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI wi=
th an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 =
large communitiess)
Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not sup=
porting EM?
- so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy's draft is useful.  In fa=
ct, in the previous rounds of review this point was made.

Your question (and perhaps Jakob's) is whether we have reached a time/place=
 where the "chunking" approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis?   This dr=
aft does not make this statement.

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by increasin=
g the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .   =
The choice to "chunk" or stream in large BGP message is an implementation c=
hoice for a particular BGP application.

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."

[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version 4 =
[upcoming below]]/.

--------------

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.



----

>"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
>   maximum message size into account."
>
>I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wo=
uld suggest to remove this sentence

Bruno - people asked to put this text in as an operational warning.  At thi=
s point, I'm going to say unless there is harm it should remain.
[Bruno] OK.

----
>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BG=
P message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size of ea=
ch attribute.
>Please elaborate on what you mean by
>
>"an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets"

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with length=
 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be inc=
luded.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers create a "k=
iller application" that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Interne=
t does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that attribute mu=
st carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.
[Bruno] I don't think that I agree with this. E.g. I don't see where RFCs 1=
997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I =
don't see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message support) , a=
ttributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec=
 attribute since they wanted for more space.

This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases of a=
 large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not pro=
vide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  "warning label" into=
 the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to b=
e problematic.

>---
>"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
>   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."
>
>What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension?
>That they don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer by p=
eer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that does no=
t support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to=
 the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as the de=
fault could cause problems.

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the probl=
em, how the specification partially address it, and how the specification d=
oes not address it.
In "Running immediately to Extended Message" I don't think they that the is=
sue is with "immediately". Whenever you start the transition, your likely t=
o run into problems.
---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP=
 mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the size=
 of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this ?>case=
? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a c=
ase of error handling, as every BGP
> speaker is behaving as specified.

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attrib=
utes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A which conne=
cts on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C w=
ith extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that does =
not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to define =
how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the curren=
t set of specifications.
[Bruno]
1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may not=
 fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message
2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller at=
tributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.
The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this speci=
fication needs to specify how to handle this case.

>----
>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational=
 consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN=
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI >bei=
ng removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as =
Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant consequences on the a=
vailability provided by the network.

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit wi=
thin 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it=
 reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).
[Bruno] no, cf above.

Thanks,
--Bruno

---
>=A74
>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except f=
or the >OPEN message.
>Probably
>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except f=
or the >OPEN message (type 1).
>----
>=A78

>"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =
=BB

>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a=
 BGP

>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a

>received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
>OLD : to reduce compexity
>NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



___________________________________________________________________________=
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Thank you.

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc

pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler

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ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,

Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;

they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.

If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.

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Thank you.

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D">Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks for t=
he reply. Please see inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span class=3D"SpellE">=
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">From</sp=
an></b></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&q=
uot;">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;">
 Susan <span class=3D"SpellE">Hares</span> [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I&#8217;d like to answer some of=
 the questions you sent Randy based on comments (public and private)
 the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft in our last WG LCs=
. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Several of the comments you ques=
tioned were put in to answer other questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets into
 a catch-22&#8230; problem &#8211; where you put changes in for one person/=
take out the changes out for another.&nbsp; In academic circles this is cal=
led the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 i=
nsists changes go out) during publication. &nbsp;Therefore,
 I&#8217;m I am going to answer most of your questions where this is the ca=
se.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I believe that Randy has new ver=
sion with the changes I&#8217;ve indicated.&nbsp; I&#8217;m hoping he&#8217=
;ll just
 post that version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. <=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&lt;shepherd hat on&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This draft&#8217;s technology pr=
ovides efficient processing for some application by allow a huge BGP
 message size. &nbsp;Whether &#8220;chunking&#8221; BGP to 4096 byte messag=
es or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effect=
ive for a particular application is something only an implementer of a part=
icular BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide. &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft
 simply gives freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artificiall=
y small message size.&nbsp; The market place will choose whether this techn=
ology is used or not.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As Jakob pointed out, changing a=
 highly tuned BGP implementation which &#8220;chunks&#8221; BGP data into
 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the implementation.&n=
bsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">(snip)
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orange=
.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 13:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please
 find below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As
 of today, I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progress=
ed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; The WG chairs intend to forward=
 this draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"5" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"636" style=3D"width:476.9pt;mso-cellspacing:3.7pt;margin-le=
ft:35.4pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a hr=
ef=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eim=
plementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-exten=
ded-&gt;implementations</a>
 says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does not send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p=
></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I
 may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the a=
bove is that none of the reported
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>implementations sends the capabili=
ty hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Here
 this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a n=
iche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the ID=
R&#8217;s usual two interoperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;In our mail thread, we disco=
vered that the implementation report should have indicate<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&=
#8217;m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point, but my under=
standing
 is that <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All implementations have full su=
pport. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 ok, solved</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A7
 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;
 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=
=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-=
protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</sp=
an></a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">is now RFC 8205 (t=
hanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<sp=
an style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D">
</span>Can we have an update on this?<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> &nbsp;<=
/span>Can the introduction of
<span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span style=3D"color:black">be update=
d to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">SIDR gave up waiting on IDR&#821=
7;s work and took a reduced size of encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; The security pe=
ople
 were very sad about the reduction.&nbsp; How is this working in practice? =
WG sidrops can answer this question.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The real problem is there is fin=
ite message space.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as message space=
 is still limited)</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-f=
amily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">There are two ways to send lots =
of BGP routes and/or attributes &#8211; to &#8220;chunk&#8221; these into s=
mall
 message sizes or place these into a large message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some =
applications may always want to &#8220;chunk&#8221; into message sizes smal=
ler than 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently util=
izing large message size. &nbsp;As the potential number of NLRI and BGP att=
ributes
 grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasona=
ble way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The decision on how to send BGP =
messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp;
 &nbsp;Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP message it sends =
to the remote BGP peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this draft repr=
esent an agreement between two BGP peers. &nbsp;These are facts of basic BG=
P implementations</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 Let&#8217;s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed of cl=
ients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From
 an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI with a=
n Total Path Attribute Length bigger than
<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 l=
arge <span class=3D"SpellE">
communitiess</span>)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Can
 you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not suppor=
ting EM?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8211; so I do not believe addi=
ng these facts to Randy&#8217;s draft is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the prev=
ious
 rounds of review this point was made. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Your question (and perhaps Jakob=
&#8217;s) is whether we have reached a time/place where the &#8220;chunking=
&#8221;
 approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis? &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does no=
t make this statement.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The point of this draft is to en=
able more efficient processing by increasing the message size
 for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choi=
ce to &#8220;chunk&#8221; or stream in large BGP message is an implementati=
on choice for a particular BGP application.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A73 =
says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A peer which does not a=
dvertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NO=
T be sent to it.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#=
8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[I believe randy accepted this c=
hange with the following text in version 4 [upcoming below]]/.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--------------<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Fine. Text in =A74 should probably b=
e aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it ha=
s received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it ha=
s sent and received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applicat=
ions generating information which might be encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 maximum message size into account.&#8221;<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:=
p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I
 don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno &#8211; people asked to pu=
t this text in as an operational warning. &nbsp;At this point, I&#8217;m go=
ing
 to say unless there is harm it should remain.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 OK.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 which do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The
 issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP me=
ssage whose length is bigger than
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">4096, =
irrespective
 of the size of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please
 elaborate on what you mean by </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">an
 attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;<span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">An attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 is an attribute with length 6000 inside of a
 BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be included.&nbsp; &nbs=
p;No such attribute exists today.&nbsp; &nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a=
 &#8220;killer application&#8221; that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest=
 of the Internet does not have to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person
 defining that attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BG=
P messages.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 I don&#8217;t think that I agree with this. E.g. I don&#8217;t see where R=
FCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hen=
ce I don&#8217;t see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message s=
upport) , attributes larger than 4096 octets. Most
 probably same status for the <span class=3D"SpellE">BGPSec</span> attribut=
e since they wanted for more space.
</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This text was added during an ea=
rlier discussion where the error cases of a large BGP attribute
 was given.&nbsp; The originator of the common could not provide the exact =
description, but we agreed to put this &nbsp;&#8220;warning label&#8221; in=
to the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is one of the cases where adding/removing te=
xt gets to be problematic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
 It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">What
 does this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? <span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;T</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">hat
 they don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span sty=
le=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This warning was text that other=
 participants asked to be added.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">It is a common sense warning.&nb=
sp; Extended messages are enabled on a peer by peer basis as all
 BGP capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into a Peer that does not support t=
he larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to the smalle=
r size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running immediately to the Extended messages as the def=
ault could cause problems.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the problem, how=
 the specification partially address it, and how the specification does not=
 address it.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">In
 &#8220;Running immediately to Extended Message&#8221; I don&#8217;t think =
they that the issue is with &#8220;immediately&#8221;. Whenever you start t=
he transition, your likely to run into problems.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp; Future protocol specifications will need to describe how t=
o handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Why
 is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mec=
hanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, *
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">?&gt;</span>case? This should be described in=
 this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, as eve=
ry BGP
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">speaker is behavin=
g as specified.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I fail to see your logic.&nbsp; =
At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attributes) must fit within
 a 4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a BGP peer A which connects on link=
 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C with extende=
d messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">In the future, the first group t=
hat defines attribute or an NLRI that does not fit within a
 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to define how that works i=
n the specification.&nbsp; There is no need to refine the current set of sp=
ecifications.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
]<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">1)
<span class=3D"SpellE">cf</span> above, I believe that there are existing B=
GP Attributes which may not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">2)Even
 in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller attribut=
es whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The
 problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this specific=
ation needs to specify how to handle this case.</span></i></b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Depending
 on the above specification, a section describing the operational consequen=
ces in a network (such as the
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Intern=
et, BGP
 Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences c=
ould be BGP NLRI
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">being =
removed
 in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Route Targ=
ets) been removed.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Both h=
aving significant
 consequences on the availability provided by the network.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">At this point, there are no attr=
ibutes or NLRI groupings that do not fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you
 define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it reviewed by IDR, B=
ESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 no, <span class=3D"SpellE">cf</span> above.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks=
,<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Brun=
o<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD:
 The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except for th=
e <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
&gt;</span>OPEN message. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Probabl=
y<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:
 The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except for th=
e <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A78<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not c=
hange BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Before evaluating this, I think this do=
cument should first specified how a BGP <span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">messages bigger than 4096 octets is han=
dled when it needs to be sent to a <span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p=
></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">received not support=
ing this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Nits:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD&nbs=
p;:
 to reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW&nbs=
p;:
 to reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</s=
pan></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:id=
r-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extend=
ed Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp;
 You can access the draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The authors should indicate whether =
they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are encouraged to update
 the&nbsp; implementation data at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/w=
iki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://trac.ie=
tf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span></a>=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The draft provides a means for expan=
ding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages except
 OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short for all of the pot=
ential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The WG chairs intend to forward this=
 draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As you comment on the draft, please =
consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the additional
 space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying BGP-LS or SR, =
and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">_=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">C=
e message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confident=
ielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">p=
as etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu =
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">a=
 l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages ele=
ctroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">O=
range decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou f=
alsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">T=
his message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged info=
rmation that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">t=
hey should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">I=
f you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delet=
e this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">A=
s emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been m=
odified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">T=
hank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">_______________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des i=
nformations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisatio=
n. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces join=
tes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete=
 altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">This message and its attachments may contain confidenti=
al or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">If you have received this email in error, please notify=
 the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for mess=
ages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489D3D92OPEXCAUBM43corp_--


From nobody Thu Feb 14 01:47:19 2019
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
CC: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Dear Randy,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:36 PM
>=20
> dear reviewer #2:
>=20
> excuse, this has been in an edit buffer for weeks.

No problem. Thanks for the reply.
=20
> > [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i=
dr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol>
> > is now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the=
 normative/any reference to
> > draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not ne=
ed draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.=20
> > Can we have an update on this?
>=20
> extended-messages authors had $dayjobs and did not have the stamina for
> the level of dos in the sidr wg.  they were desperate to get bgpsec our
> the door and idr was holding them hostage.  and it's not like bgpsec is
> just around the corner.
>=20
> > Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages be
> > updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?
>=20
> would you like it if we threw in bgp-ls?  no extra charge.

-28 looks good to me.
=20
> > =A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT sen=
d BGP
> >    Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."
> >=20
> > Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.
> >=20
> > OLD: A BGP speaker
> >    MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
> >    Extended Message Capability from that peer.
> >=20
> > NEW:
> > A BGP speaker
> >    MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and recei=
ved the
> >    Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.
>=20
> the intent was to allow simplexity, use of extended messages in one
> direction only.  in retrospect, this may be too subtle/clever.  it could
> be as you suggest if no one wants simplexity.

Both options works for me. My comment was that =A73 and =A74 did not seemed=
 aligned on this point.
-28 looks good to me.
=20
> > "   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
> >    within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
> >    maximum message size into account."
> >=20
> > I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I=
 would suggest to remove this sentence
>=20
> it was added to reaffirm what to you is obvious.  unless you really
> object, i see no harm in leaving it.

Whether this is obvious or not, this is true/applicable at least from RFC 4=
271. IOW, this draft does not change the point that the BGP message is limi=
ted in size.
Ok for leaving it.

> >    A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
> >    BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
> >    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
> >    putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
> >    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
> >=20
> > The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to=
 BGP message whose length is bigger than 4096, irrespective of the size of =
each attribute.
> > Please elaborate on what you mean by "an attribute which can not be dec=
omposed to 4096 octets"
>=20
> a prefix announcement with 200 researcher-invents-massive-attribute? :)
> [ nanog joke ]

1) Taking the large community example, [RFC8092], this attribute could be b=
igger than 4096 octets. How would you handle this?
2) The problem is not limited to attribute bigger than 4096 octets. If you =
have one NLRI having an attribute of 2100 octets and an attribute of 2000 o=
ctets, how do you handle this?

>=20
> > ---
> > "   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
> >    conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."
> >=20
> > What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension? That t=
hey don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?
> >=20
> > ---
> >   Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
> >    peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.
> >=20
> > Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * communities) one could exceed the si=
ze of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this case=
? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a c=
ase of error handling, as every BGP speaker is behaving as specified.

That is my main comment.

Thanks,
--Bruno

> > ----
> > Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operatio=
nal consequences in a network (such as the Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/V=
PN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI be=
ing removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as=
 Route Targets) been removed. Both having significant consequences on the a=
vailability provided by the network.
> >=20
> > ---
> > =A74
> > OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages excep=
t for the OPEN message.
> > Probably
> > NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types excep=
t for the OPEN message (type 1).
> > ----
> > =A78
> >=20
> > "This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues=
 =BB
> >=20
> > Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified ho=
w a BGP messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sen=
t to a received not supporting this extension.
> >=20
> > Nits:
> > OLD : to reduce compexity
> > NEW : to reduce complexity
>=20
> i took some edits, tyvm.
>=20
> randy

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.


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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:=20

=20

Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have
translation issues between our =93English=94 language again so I have =
tried to
be precise in the detailed comments.  I=92ve summarized my comments as =
well to
help us take the next step.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

Summary

----

Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size!
This is a case where a code path could get caught with program error.  =
The
error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended
specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is longer than =
the
message.   Please let me know if I=92ve missed something.  =20

=20

As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to =
add
notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly combine
RFC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The implementers and
operations people commented earlier that this should not be in the =
protocol
specification other than as a brief footnote. =20

=20

I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular =
use
cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), SPRING,
BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), =
and
SPRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if =
there
is need for standardization for a minimal set of policy for message =
sizes
for specific use cases.   I will be glad to send request to these WG or =
to
host something in IDR if there is policy that can be used across all use
cases.=20

=20

To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about
this change to paragraph in section 4:=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if
it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

[PS =96 in American English =93Can not=94 is normally concatenated =
=93cannot=94.]=20

  =20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Sue,

=20

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:=20

=20

I=92d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on =
comments
(public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this =
draft
in our last WG LCs.  =20

=20

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other
questions.   This gets into a catch-22=85 problem =96 where you put =
changes in
for one person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic =
circles
this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go =
in,
reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I=92m =
I am
going to answer most of your questions where this is the case. =20

=20

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=92ve indicated.  =
I=92m
hoping he=92ll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant
implementations.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

=20

<shepherd hat on>=20

This draft=92s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application
by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether =93chunking=94 BGP to 4096 =
byte
messages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is =
more
effective for a particular application is something only an implementer =
of a
particular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives =
freedom
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message =
size.
The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.=20

=20

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which
=93chunks=94 BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial =
rework of
the implementation. =20

=20

=20

(snip)=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

>Please find below some comments.

>As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed
to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eimple=
men
tations> >implementations says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..=20

>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension =
for
a niche use case. So I don=92t see the >arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should
have indicate

>full support.   I=92m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last =
point,
but my understanding is that=20

All implementations have full support. =20

=20

[Bruno] ok, solved

>----

>=A7 1

>=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

>   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

>=20

>
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

>[
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP =
Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. Can we have an =
update
on this?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages =
>be
updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=92s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.
The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How is this =
working
in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question. =20

=20

The real problem is there is finite message space. =20

[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message
space is still limited)

=20

[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) =
is
probably enough for 10 years.  =20

=20

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =96 to =
=93chunk=94
these into small message sizes or place these into a large message.    =
Some
applications may always want to =93chunk=94 into message sizes smaller =
than
4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large =
message
size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new
applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way =
to
exchange amounts of BGP data.   =20

=20

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer
decision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the =
BGP
message it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this
draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of
basic BGP implementations

[Bruno] Let=92s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed =
of
clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.

>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI
with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having =
1000
large communitiess)

Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not
supporting EM?

[Sue]:  Gladly=85=20

A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.   =
It
agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP
Extended messages is accepted or not (based on capability announcement). =


Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  =
BGP-C2
and BGP-C3 do support extended messages.=20

=20

If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities
with  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended =
communities
to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.

The policy in the RR must specify whether:=20

a)      the =93too long=94 attribute path length must be dropped, or=20

b)      the BGP attribute path can be truncated.=20

=20

This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff.
Each operator may choose to write this policy differently.=20

=20

Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,  =
the
previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this =
information
out of the protocol specification.=20

=20

If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS,
LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft =
that
can be reviewed by all these WGs.=20

=20

=20

=96 so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy=92s draft is useful. =
 In
fact, in the previous rounds of review this point was made.=20

=20

Your question (and perhaps Jakob=92s) is whether we have reached a =
time/place
where the =93chunking=94 approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis?   =
This
draft does not make this statement. =20

=20

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing
the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .   =
The
choice to =93chunk=94 or stream in large BGP message is an =
implementation choice
for a particular BGP application. =20

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version =
4
[upcoming below]]/.=20

=20

--------------

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

=20

----

>=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

>   maximum message size into account.=94

>=20

>I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

Bruno =96 people asked to put this text in as an operational warning.  =
At this
point, I=92m going to say unless there is harm it should remain. =20

[Bruno] OK.

=20

----

>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the

>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

>=20

>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

>Please elaborate on what you mean by=20

>=20

>=93an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length
6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be
included.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers =
create a
=93killer application=94 that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of =
the
Internet does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that
attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.=20

=20

=20

[Bruno] I don=92t think that I agree with this. E.g. I don=92t see where =
RFCs
1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. =
Hence I
don=92t see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message =
support) ,
attributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the =
BGPSec
attribute since they wanted for more space.

[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities =
not
limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large =
communities
and a footnote in Randy=92s specification.  How about the addition of a =
single
sentence to point people in the right direction.=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if
it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

 =20

=20

This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases =
of a
large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not
provide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  =93warning =
label=94
into the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text =
gets
to be problematic.=20

=20

>---

>=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

>   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

>=20

>What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension?=20

>That they don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.=20

=20

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer =
by
peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that =
does
not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be =
reformatted
to the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as =
the
default could cause problems.=20

=20

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the
specification does not address it.

In =93Running immediately to Extended Message=94 I don=92t think they =
that the
issue is with =93immediately=94. Whenever you start the transition, your =
likely
to run into problems.

=20

=20

[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire =
and
the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed =
something
in this case, please let me know.=20

=20

The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation
should have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.
The clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol
specification. =20

=20

Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.
It is worthy of =93use case or application notes=94 written for specific
applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.  Again, =
if
it is significant enough concern for operators and implementers =96 it =
would
be worthy to have combined use case document besides this point.    =
I=92m
happy to sponsor cross-area work on this use case.=20

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the =
size
of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
?>case?
This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a =
case
of error handling, as every BGP=20

> speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and
attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A =
which
connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP =
peer
C with extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.  =


=20

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does
not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define
how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the =
current
set of specifications.  =20

[Bruno]

1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may =
not
fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message

2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller
attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.

=20

The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this
specification needs to specify how to handle this case.

=20

[Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling =
issues
are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended message =
section
5.=20

=20

What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if
you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a large
community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run
into problems when combining with some longer AS path lengths.  [4800=E0 =
5096
bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this was
policy and implementation specific details. =20

=20

I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community =
to
have this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some =
desire to
have common policies and error communities.   It is the type of thing =
that
GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.   BESS, =
LSVR,
SPRING and others should consider what policy should be adapted for =
their
applications.=20

=20

>----

>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
>being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant consequences on =
the
availability provided by the network.

=20

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit
within 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to =
have
it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).=20

[Bruno] no, cf above.

[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities =
to
blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list!=20

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

=20

---

>=A74

>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages =
except
for the >OPEN message.=20

>Probably

>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types =
except
for the >OPEN message (type 1).=20

>----

>=A78

>=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified =
how a
BGP=20
>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to =
a=20
>received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

>OLD : to reduce compexity

>NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou
falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou
falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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Thank you.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou
falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
information that may be protected by law;
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If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
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Thank you.

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.=A0=A0 I think =
we have translation issues between our &#8220;English&#8221; language =
again so I have tried to be precise in the detailed comments. =
=A0I&#8217;ve summarized my comments as well to help us take the next =
step. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Summary<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size! =A0This is a case where a code path could get caught with program =
error.=A0 The error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in =
the extended specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is =
longer than the message.=A0 =A0Please let me know if I&#8217;ve missed =
something. =A0=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As I understand it, =A0you are asking this specification to be =
expanded to add notes on policies on what implementation should do to =
correctly combine RFC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.=A0=A0 =
The implementers and operations people commented earlier that this =
should not be in the protocol specification other than as a brief =
footnote.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for =
particular use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized =
controller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments =
yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.=A0 =A0I think the chairs of the =
WGs utilizing should consider if there is need for standardization for a =
minimal set of policy for message sizes for specific use cases.=A0=A0 I =
will be glad to send request to these WG or to host something in IDR if =
there is policy that can be used across all use cases. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about this change to paragraph in section 4: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
which do not have the Extended Message capability.=A0 =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
which do not have the Extended Message capability.=A0 =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed if =
it <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0sent in Extended message is a large community =
attribute with 1000 communities. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0(12,000 bytes).=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[PS =
&#8211; in American English &#8220;Can not&#8221; is normally =
concatenated &#8220;cannot&#8221;.] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks for the reply. Please see inline =
[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, =
2019 8:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG =
Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I&#8217;d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based =
on comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd =
received on this draft in our last WG LCs. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other =
questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets into a catch-22&#8230; problem &#8211; =
where you put changes in for one person/take out the changes out for =
another.&nbsp; In academic circles this is called the reviewer #2 =
problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go =
out) during publication. &nbsp;Therefore, I&#8217;m I am going to answer =
most of your questions where this is the case.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I&#8217;ve =
indicated.&nbsp; I&#8217;m hoping he&#8217;ll just post that =
version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&lt;shepherd hat on&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This draft&#8217;s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application by allow a huge BGP message size. &nbsp;Whether =
&#8220;chunking&#8221; BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large =
amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effective for a =
particular application is something only an implementer of a particular =
BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide. &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft simply gives =
freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small =
message size.&nbsp; The market place will choose whether this technology =
is used or not.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation =
which &#8220;chunks&#8221; BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve =
substantial rework of the implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><i><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(snip) <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DTableauNormal =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D636 =
style=3D'width:476.9pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%=
3eimplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-&gt;implementations</a> says : </span>5a =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Does not send Extended Message capability =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>implementations sends the capability =
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here this =
document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report =
should have indicate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&#8217;m waiting for Olivier to update =
based on the last point, but my understanding is that =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>All implementations have full support. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] ok, solved</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>&gt; =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>Can we have an update on this?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> &nbsp;</span>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'color:black'>be =
updated to introduce on the real =
reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>SIDR gave up waiting on IDR&#8217;s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; The security people were very sad about the =
reduction.&nbsp; How is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer =
this question.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The real problem is there is finite message space.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message space is still limited)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile), =A0but I hope 65,635 =
(smile) is probably enough for 10 years.=A0 =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =
&#8211; to &#8220;chunk&#8221; these into small message sizes or place =
these into a large message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some applications may =
always want to &#8220;chunk&#8221; into message sizes smaller than =
4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently utilizing =
large message size. &nbsp;As the potential number of NLRI and BGP =
attributes grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a =
more reasonable way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a =
peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp; &nbsp;Each BGP peer is in =
charge of reformatting the BGP message it sends to the remote BGP =
peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this draft represent an =
agreement between two BGP peers. &nbsp;These are facts of basic BGP =
implementations<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] Let&#8217;s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having =
a mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) =
NLRI with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than=A0 4090 byte (e.g. =
having 1000 large communitiess)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer =
not supporting EM?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]:=A0 Gladly&#8230; <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP =
clients.=A0 =A0It agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) =
whether the BGP Extended messages is accepted or not (based on =
capability announcement). <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and =
=A0BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support extended messages. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities with =A0a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via =
extended communities to BGP-C2 and =
BGP-C2.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The policy in the RR must specify whether: =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the &#8220;too long&#8221; attribute path length must be dropped, or =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the BGP attribute path can be truncated. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff. =A0Each operator may choose to write this policy differently. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification, =
=A0the previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this =
information out of the protocol specification. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of =
BESS, LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a =
draft that can be reviewed by all these WGs. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8211; so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy&#8217;s draft =
is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the previous rounds of review this point =
was made. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your question (and perhaps Jakob&#8217;s) is whether we have reached =
a time/place where the &#8220;chunking&#8221; approach will fail on a =
peer-by-peer basis? &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does not make this =
statement.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. =
BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choice to &#8220;chunk&#8221; or stream in =
large BGP message is an implementation choice for a particular BGP =
application.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 says =
&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in =
version 4 [upcoming below]]/. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno &#8211; people asked to put this text in as an operational =
warning. &nbsp;At this point, I&#8217;m going to say unless there is =
harm it should remain.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
096, irrespective of the size of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute =
to be included.&nbsp; &nbsp;No such attribute exists today.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a &#8220;killer application&#8221; =
that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have =
to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person defining that attribute must =
carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] I don&#8217;t think that I agree with this. E.g. I =
don&#8217;t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the =
size of their attribute. Hence I don&#8217;t see why you could not have, =
today (with Extended Message support) , attributes larger than 4096 =
octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attribute since they =
wanted for more space.</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large =
communities not limiting the size.=A0 It is worthy of a change to both =
the large communities and a footnote in Randy&#8217;s specification. =
=A0How about the addition of a single sentence to point people in the =
right direction. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
which do not have the Extended Message capability.=A0 =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
which do not have the Extended Message capability.=A0 =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed if =
it <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0sent in Extended message is a large community =
attribute with 1000 communities. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0(12,000 bytes).=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error =
cases of a large BGP attribute was given.&nbsp; The originator of the =
common could not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put =
this &nbsp;&#8220;warning label&#8221; into the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
is one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to be problematic. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;T</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>hat they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This warning was text that other participants asked to be added. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is a common sense warning.&nbsp; Extended messages are enabled on =
a peer by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into =
a Peer that does not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will =
need to be reformatted to the smaller size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running =
immediately to the Extended messages as the default could cause =
problems. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the =
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the =
specification does not address it.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In &#8220;Running immediately to Extended Message&#8221; I =
don&#8217;t think they that the issue is with &#8220;immediately&#8221;. =
Whenever you start the transition, your likely to run into =
problems.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the =
wire and the appropriate error handling of the messages.=A0 =A0If I have =
missed something in this case, please let me know. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The specification does not specify the necessary policies =
implementation should have in order to decide what to do in the case of =
mixed network.=A0 =A0The clear indication was this type was not =
appropriate for the protocol specification. =
=A0<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.=A0 It is worthy of &#8220;use case or application notes&#8221; =
written for specific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the =
specification.=A0 Again, if it is significant enough concern for =
operators and implementers &#8211; it would be worthy to have combined =
use case document besides this point. =A0=A0=A0I&#8217;m happy to =
sponsor cross-area work on this use case. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>?&gt;</span>case? This should be described =
in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, =
as every BGP <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I fail to see your logic.&nbsp; At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI =
and attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a =
BGP peer A which connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and =
on link to a BGP peer C with extended messages only has to worry about =
reformatting the data.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define how that works in the specification.&nbsp; There is no need to =
refine the current set of specifications.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which =
may not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP =
message<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 =
smaller attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this =
specification needs to specify how to handle this =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: =A0IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling =
issues are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended =
message section 5. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if you combine 2 smaller attributes.=A0 For example, if you have =
a large community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will =
likely run into problems when combining with some longer AS path =
lengths.=A0 [4800</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>=E0</span>=
<span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued =
this was policy and implementation specific details.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator =
community to have this type of policy details discussed to see if there =
is some desire to have common policies and error communities. =A0=A0It =
is the type of thing that GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for =
large communities.=A0 =A0BESS, LSVR, SPRING and others should consider =
what policy should be adapted for their applications. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
nternet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible =
consequences could be BGP NLRI </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>b=
eing removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community =
(such as Route Targets) been removed. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
oth having significant consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not =
fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you define one (as SIDR did), then you =
will need to have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational =
groups (GROW, etc).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] no, cf above.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: =A0Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large =
communities to blow up BGP. =A0I have a new worry to add to my BGP =
concerns list! <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>messages bigger =
than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><span=
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>If you have received this =
email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, =
Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01D4C45F.A6680880--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 18:34:20 +0100
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To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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--0000000000006c02b10581de1238
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Dear Sue & authors of this proposal,

> Therefore, putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to

> 4096 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to

> routing failure.


That's brilliant statement but not enough to proceed with this spec.


See the fundamental change that today such issue is in vast majority of
cases locally significant. That means that if I send NLRI to BGP it will
have a decent chance to be received by all intended parties.


With new spec we are saying that it may silently fail somewhere in the
middle and we do not do anything about it. That's to me showstopper.


At min if given NLRI can not be sent with XXL attributes to some peers (say
on the RR which Bruno mentioned) we must specify protocol extension in this
very spec on how to deal with it.


Such extension may be as simple as to define a short attribute
BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN which will be inserted in the place where XXL attribute
just did not fit smaller message size peers to tell them then "Hey
something is broken with this NLRI" - pls check. Then it will be up to
local policy to install such NLRI or drop it.


Thx,
R.


On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

> Bruno:
>
>
>
> Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have
> translation issues between our =E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D language again s=
o I have tried to
> be precise in the detailed comments.  I=E2=80=99ve summarized my comments=
 as well
> to help us take the next step.
>
>
>
> Sue
>
>
>
> Summary
>
> ----
>
> Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message size!
> This is a case where a code path could get caught with program error.  Th=
e
> error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended
> specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is longer than t=
he
> message.   Please let me know if I=E2=80=99ve missed something.
>
>
>
> As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to
> add notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly combi=
ne
> RFC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The implementers and
> operations people commented earlier that this should not be in the protoc=
ol
> specification other than as a brief footnote.
>
>
>
> I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular
> use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller),
> SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs
> (rtgwg), and SPRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should
> consider if there is need for standardization for a minimal set of policy
> for message sizes for specific use cases.   I will be glad to send reques=
t
> to these WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy that can be us=
ed
> across all use cases.
>
>
>
> To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how abou=
t
> this change to paragraph in section 4:
>
>
>
> Old/
>
>    A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>
>    BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>
>    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>
>    putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>
>    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
> /
>
> New/
>
>    A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>
>    BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>
>    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>
>    putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>
>    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
>    One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed
> if it
>
>    sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000
> communities.
>
>    (12,000 bytes).
>
> /
>
> [PS =E2=80=93 in American English =E2=80=9CCan not=E2=80=9D is normally c=
oncatenated =E2=80=9Ccannot=E2=80=9D.]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
> *To:* Susan Hares
> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
>
>
>
> Sue,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]
>
>
>
> *From:* Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
> *To:* DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
>
>
>
> Bruno:
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on =
comments
> (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this
> draft in our last WG LCs.
>
>
>
> Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other
> questions.   This gets into a catch-22=E2=80=A6 problem =E2=80=93 where y=
ou put changes in
> for one person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic circles
> this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in,
> reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I=E2=
=80=99m I am
> going to answer most of your questions where this is the case.
>
>
>
> I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=E2=80=99ve indica=
ted.  I=E2=80=99m
> hoping he=E2=80=99ll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compli=
ant
> implementations.
>
>
>
> Sue
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <shepherd hat on>
>
> This draft=E2=80=99s technology provides efficient processing for some ap=
plication
> by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether =E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D BGP=
 to 4096 byte
> messages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is mor=
e
> effective for a particular application is something only an implementer o=
f
> a particular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives
> freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small
> message size.  The market place will choose whether this technology is us=
ed
> or not.
>
>
>
> As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which
> =E2=80=9Cchunks=E2=80=9D BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve sub=
stantial rework of
> the implementation.
>
>
>
>
>
> *(snip) *
>
> *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *
> bruno.decraene@orange.com
> *Sent:* 29 January 2019 13:33
> *To:* Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> *Cc:* idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
>
>
>
> Hi WG,
>
>
>
> >Please find below some comments.
>
> >As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be
> progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271
> (core BGP spec).
>
>
>
> > The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
> level of implementation.
>
>
>
> >
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended->implemen=
tations
> says : 5a
>
> Does not send Extended Message capability
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
>
>
> >I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of
> the above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the
> capability hence no implementation supports
> draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
>
> >Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension
> for a niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the >arguments for not requi=
ring the
> IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable implementations.
>
>
>
> >In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should
> have indicate
>
> >full support.   I=E2=80=99m waiting for Olivier to update based on the l=
ast
> point, but my understanding is that
>
> All implementations have full support.
>
>
>
> *[Bruno] ok, solved*
>
> >----
>
> >=C2=A7 1
>
> >=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
>
> >   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol>]),
> there is
>
> >   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =E2=80=
=9C
>
> >
>
> >
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1
>
>
>
>
>
> >[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is
> now RFC 8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the
> normative/any >reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So
> presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. C=
an
> we have an update on this?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-messages
> >be updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?
>
>
>
> SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=E2=80=99s work and took a reduced size of
> encryption.   The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How
> is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question.
>
>
>
> The real problem is there is finite message space.
>
> *[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as
> message space is still limited)*
>
>
>
> [Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) is
> probably enough for 10 years.
>
>
>
> There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =E2=80=93=
 to
> =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D these into small message sizes or place these int=
o a large
> message.    Some applications may always want to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D =
into message sizes
> smaller than 4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizin=
g
> large message size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes
> grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a more
> reasonable way to exchange amounts of BGP data.
>
>
>
> The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer
> decision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the B=
GP
> message it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this
> draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of
> basic BGP implementations
>
> *[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a=
 mixed of
> clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.*
>
> *From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI
> with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having
> 1000 large communitiess)*
>
> *Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not
> supporting EM?*
>
> *[Sue]:  Gladly=E2=80=A6 *
>
> *A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.
>  It agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BG=
P
> Extended messages is accepted or not (based on capability announcement). =
*
>
> *Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  BGP-C=
2
> and BGP-C3 do support extended messages. *
>
>
>
> *If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large communitie=
s
> with  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended communiti=
es
> to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.*
>
> *The policy in the RR must specify whether: *
>
> *a)      **the =E2=80=9Ctoo long=E2=80=9D attribute path length must be d=
ropped, or *
>
> *b)      **the BGP attribute path can be truncated. *
>
>
>
> *This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation
> staff.  Each operator may choose to write this policy differently. *
>
>
>
> *Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,
>  the previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this
> information out of the protocol specification. *
>
>
>
> *If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS,
> LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft th=
at
> can be reviewed by all these WGs. *
>
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=93 so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy=E2=80=99s draft=
 is useful.  In
> fact, in the previous rounds of review this point was made.
>
>
>
> Your question (and perhaps Jakob=E2=80=99s) is whether we have reached a
> time/place where the =E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D approach will fail on a p=
eer-by-peer basis?
>   This draft does not make this statement.
>
>
>
> The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by
> increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g.
> BGP-LS) .   The choice to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D or stream in large BGP =
message is an
> implementation choice for a particular BGP application.
>
>
>
> ----
>
> =C2=A74
>
> =C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability MUS=
T NOT send BGP
>
>    Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.=
=E2=80=9D
>
> [I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version =
4
> [upcoming below]]/.
>
>
>
> --------------
>
>
>
> Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.
>
> OLD: A BGP speaker
>
>    MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
>
>    Extended Message Capability from that peer.
>
>
>
> NEW:
>
> A BGP speaker
>
>    MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and receive=
d
> the
>
>    Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----
>
> >=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be encapsula=
ted
>
> >   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
>
> >   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D
>
> >
>
> >I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I
> would suggest to remove this sentence
>
>
>
> Bruno =E2=80=93 people asked to put this text in as an operational warnin=
g.  At
> this point, I=E2=80=99m going to say unless there is harm it should remai=
n.
>
> *[Bruno] OK.*
>
>
>
> ----
>
> >   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>
> >   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>
> >   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>
> >   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>
> >   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
> >
>
> >The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to
> BGP message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size
> of each attribute.
>
> >Please elaborate on what you mean by
>
> >
>
> >=E2=80=9Can attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with
> length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute t=
o
> be included.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers
> create a =E2=80=9Ckiller application=E2=80=9D that uses a 6000 byte attri=
bute, the rest of
> the Internet does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that
> attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[Bruno] I don=E2=80=99t think that I agree with this. E.g. I don=E2=80=
=99t see where RFCs
> 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence=
 I
> don=E2=80=99t see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message su=
pport) ,
> attributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the
> BGPSec attribute since they wanted for more space.*
>
> *[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities
> not limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large
> communities and a footnote in Randy=E2=80=99s specification.  How about t=
he
> addition of a single sentence to point people in the right direction. *
>
>
>
> Old/
>
>    A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>
>    BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>
>    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>
>    putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>
>    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
> /
>
> New/
>
>    A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>
>    BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>
>    which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>
>    putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>
>    less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
>    One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed
> if it
>
>    sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000
> communities.
>
>    (12,000 bytes).
>
> /
>
>
>
>
>
> This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases of
> a large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not
> provide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  =E2=80=9Cwarnin=
g label=E2=80=9D
> into the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text get=
s
> to be problematic.
>
>
>
> >---
>
> >=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implement=
ers are
>
> >   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=E2=80=
=9D
>
> >
>
> >What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension?
>
> >That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?
>
>
>
> This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.
>
>
>
> It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer by
> peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that does
> not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatte=
d
> to the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as th=
e
> default could cause problems.
>
>
>
> *[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the
> problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the
> specification does not address it.*
>
> *In =E2=80=9CRunning immediately to Extended Message=E2=80=9D I don=E2=80=
=99t think they that the
> issue is with =E2=80=9Cimmediately=E2=80=9D. Whenever you start the trans=
ition, your likely
> to run into problems.*
>
>
>
>
>
> *[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire
> and the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed
> something in this case, please let me know. *
>
>
>
> *The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation
> should have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.
>  The clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol
> specification.  *
>
>
>
> *Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism
> specific.  It is worthy of =E2=80=9Cuse case or application notes=E2=80=
=9D written for
> specific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.
> Again, if it is significant enough concern for operators and implementers=
 =E2=80=93
> it would be worthy to have combined use case document besides this point.
>    I=E2=80=99m happy to sponsor cross-area work on this use case. *
>
>
>
> ---
>
>   Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
>
>    peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.
>
>
>
> >Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing
> BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the
> size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this
> ?>case? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is
> not a case of error handling, as every BGP
>
> > speaker is behaving as specified.
>
>
>
> I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and
> attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A whi=
ch
> connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP
> peer C with extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the
> data.
>
>
>
> In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that doe=
s
> not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to defin=
e
> how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the
> current set of specifications.
>
> *[Bruno]*
>
> *1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may
> not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message*
>
> *2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller
> attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.*
>
>
>
> *The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this
> specification needs to specify how to handle this case.*
>
>
>
> [Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling issues
> are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended message secti=
on
> 5.
>
>
>
> What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what happens
> if you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a large
> community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run
> into problems when combining with some longer AS path lengths.  [4800=C3=
=A0
> 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this
> was policy and implementation specific details.
>
>
>
> I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community to
> have this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some desire
> to have common policies and error communities.   It is the type of thing
> that GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.   BESS=
,
> LSVR, SPRING and others should consider what policy should be adapted for
> their applications.
>
>
>
> >----
>
> >Depending on the above specification, a section describing the
> operational consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled
> ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be
> BGP NLRI >being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended)
> community (such as Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant
> consequences on the availability provided by the network.
>
>
>
> At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit
> within 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to hav=
e
> it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).
>
> *[Bruno] no, cf above.*
>
> *[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities
> to blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list! *
>
>
>
> *Thanks,*
>
> *--Bruno*
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> >=C2=A74
>
> >OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except
> for the >OPEN message.
>
> >Probably
>
> >NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except
> for the >OPEN message (type 1).
>
> >----
>
> >=C2=A78
>
> >=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security=
 issues =C2=BB
>
> >Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how=
 a BGP
>
> >messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to =
a
>
> >received not supporting this extension.
>
>
>
> Nits:
>
> >OLD : to reduce compexity
>
> >NEW : to reduce complexity
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org <idr-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
> *To:* idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
>
>
>
>
>
> This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
> (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/
>
>
>
> The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers
> are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:
>
>
>
>
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations
>
>
>
> The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets
> for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running shor=
t
> for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS
> features.
>
>
>
> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
> level of implementation.
>
>
>
> As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
> mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for tho=
se
> deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
> publication.
>
>
>
> Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
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>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
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>
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
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--0000000000006c02b10581de1238
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Sue &amp; authors o=
f this proposal,<div><br></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&gt; Therefo=
re,=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;font-size:10pt">putting an attribute which=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10pt">cannot be de=
composed to=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-size:10pt">&gt; 4096 octets or<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;font-s=
ize:10pt">=C2=A0less in an Extended Message is a likely path to=C2=A0</span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;font-size:10pt">&gt; routing failure.</span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">That&#39;s brilliant statement=
 but not enough to proceed with this spec.=C2=A0</span><br></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;">See the fundamental change that today such issue is in vast majori=
ty of cases locally significant. That means that if I send NLRI to BGP it w=
ill have a decent chance to be received by all intended parties.=C2=A0</spa=
n><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><br></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;">With new spec we are saying that it may silently fa=
il somewhere in the middle and we do not do anything about it. That&#39;s t=
o me showstopper.=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><br>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">At min if given NLRI can not be sen=
t with XXL attributes to some peers (say on the RR which Bruno mentioned) w=
e must specify protocol extension=C2=A0in this very spec on how to deal wit=
h it.=C2=A0</span></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#000000"=
 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Courier New"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Such extension may be as simple as to def=
ine a short attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN which will be inserted in the place=
 where XXL attribute just did not fit smaller message size peers to tell th=
em then &quot;Hey something is broken with this NLRI&quot; - pls check. The=
n it will be up to local policy to install such NLRI or drop it.=C2=A0</spa=
n></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Courier=
 New"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px">Thx,<br>R.</span></font></p></div><div><br></div></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, =
Feb 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">=
shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_715297875910682865=
WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bruno: <u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)">Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think we have translation issues between our =E2=80=9CEnglis=
h=E2=80=9D language again so I have tried to be precise in the detailed com=
ments.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve summarized my comments as well to help us take th=
e next step. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sue <u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Summary<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(31,73,125)">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"=
>Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message size!=
=C2=A0 This is a case where a code path could get caught with program error=
.=C2=A0 The error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the ext=
ended specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is longer th=
an the message.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please let me know if I=E2=80=99ve missed somet=
hing. =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As I understan=
d it, =C2=A0you are asking this specification to be expanded to add notes o=
n policies on what implementation should do to correctly combine RFC4271 le=
ngth sizes with extended length sizes.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The implementers and ope=
rations people commented earlier that this should not be in the protocol sp=
ecification other than as a brief footnote.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs =
for particular use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized cont=
roller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-W=
ANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think the chairs of the WGs utilizin=
g should consider if there is need for standardization for a minimal set of=
 policy for message sizes for specific use cases.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I will be gla=
d to send request to these WG or to host something in IDR if there is polic=
y that can be used across all use cases. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)">To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, =
how about this change to paragraph in section 4: <u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)">Old/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate through=
out the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP=
 speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 which do not have the E=
xtended Message capability.=C2=A0 Therefore,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 putting an attribute which can not be dec=
omposed to 4096 octets or<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black=
">=C2=A0=C2=A0 less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing fail=
ure.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">/<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">New/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, pr=
opagate throughout the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speak=
ers<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 which d=
o not have the Extended Message capability.=C2=A0 Therefore,<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 putting an attribute whic=
h cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 less in an Extended Message is a likely pat=
h to routing failure.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely dec=
omposed if it <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 10=
00 communities. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0(12,000 bytes).=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:black">/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[PS =E2=80=
=93 in American English =E2=80=9CCan not=E2=80=9D is normally concatenated =
=E2=80=9Ccannot=E2=80=9D.] <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:bla=
ck">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125=
)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s=
pan></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left=
:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-ser=
if">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-s=
erif"> <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno=
.decraene@orange.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursd=
ay, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; &#39;Jakob H=
eitz (jheitz)&#39;<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Mes=
sage Support<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sue,<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for the reply. Pleas=
e see inline [Bruno]<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border=
-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding=
:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span =
lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-s=
erif"> Susan Hares [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">shares@ndzh.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:0=
3 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i=
dr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; &#39;Jakob Heitz (jheitz)&=
#39;<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<u=
></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bruno: <u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">I=E2=80=99d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based=
 on comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received=
 on this draft in our last WG LCs. =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Se=
veral of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other questions.=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 This gets into a catch-22=E2=80=A6 problem =E2=80=93 where you=
 put changes in for one person/take out the changes out for another.=C2=A0 =
In academic circles this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insi=
sts changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during publication.=
=C2=A0 Therefore, I=E2=80=99m I am going to answer most of your questions w=
here this is the case.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I believe that Randy=
 has new version with the changes I=E2=80=99ve indicated.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m=
 hoping he=E2=80=99ll just post that version.=C2=A0 AFAILK, we do have 2 co=
mpliant implementations. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sue <u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,=
73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&lt;shepherd hat on&gt; <u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
This draft=E2=80=99s technology provides efficient processing for some appl=
ication by allow a huge BGP message size.=C2=A0 Whether =E2=80=9Cchunking=
=E2=80=9D BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large amounts of data into 6=
5,000 byte message is more effective for a particular application is someth=
ing only an implementer of a particular BGP implementation =C2=A0can decide=
. =C2=A0=C2=A0This draft simply gives freedom for applications to not be re=
strict to an artificially small message size.=C2=A0 The market place will c=
hoose whether this technology is used or not.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which =
=E2=80=9Cchunks=E2=80=9D BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve subst=
antial rework of the implementation.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none=
;border-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></b></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)">(snip) <u></u><u></u></span></i></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:no=
ne;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225=
);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">=
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</spa=
n></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Idr &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@iet=
f.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> 29 Janu=
ary 2019 13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.=
com" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mai=
lto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re:=
 [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<u></u><u></u></span></p></di=
v></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-GB"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">H=
i WG,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:3=
5.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73=
,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-seri=
f">Please find below some comments.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe=
 this specification is ready to be progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a=
 document <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271=
 (core BGP spec).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;color:black">&gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG=
 with the current level of implementation.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><=
table class=3D"gmail-m_715297875910682865TableauNormal" border=3D"0" cellsp=
acing=3D"5" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"636" style=3D"width:476.9pt;margin-l=
eft:35.4pt"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"padding:0.75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extende=
d-%3eimplementations" target=3D"_blank">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki=
/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-&gt;implementations</a> says : </span>5a <u></=
u><u></u></p></td><td style=3D"padding:0.75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does =
not send Extended Message capability <u></u><u></u></p></td><td style=3D"pa=
dding:0.75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <u></u><u></u></p></td><td><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <u></u><u></u></p></td><td style=3D"padding:0.75pt"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <u></u><u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I may be misunderstanding =
the implementation report, but my reading of the above is that none of the =
reported <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>implementations se=
nds the capability hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-exte=
nded-messages.. <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt=
;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Here th=
is document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a nich=
e use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"=
>&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interop=
erable implementations.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;In our mail thread, we=
 discovered that the implementation report should have indicate<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&g=
t;full support.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m waiting for Olivier to update based=
 on the last point, but my understanding is that <u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">All implementati=
ons have full support. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno] ok, solved</span></i></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A7 1<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9C As BGP is ext=
ended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" titl=
e=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;" target=3D"_blank"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">]), there is<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125=
)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 oc=
tets.=C2=A0 =E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt; </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D=
"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#sectio=
n-1" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-exten=
ded-messages-27#section-1</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Ar=
ial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">[</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol=
" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">is now RFC 8205 (thanks =
for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any <span style=
=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extend=
ed-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span>Can we have an update on this?<span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(31,73,125)"> =C2=A0</span>Can the introduction of <span style=3D"c=
olor:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"color:black">be updated to intr=
oduce on the real reasons/needs?<u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">SIDR gave =
up waiting on IDR=E2=80=99s work and took a reduced size of encryption.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 The security people were very sad about the reduction.=C2=A0 How =
is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question.=C2=A0 <u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73=
,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The real problem is there is finite message space.=
=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno=
] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as message spac=
e is still limited)<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Su=
e]: The message is still finite (smile), =C2=A0but I hope 65,635 (smile) is=
 probably enough for 10 years.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">There =
are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =E2=80=93 to =E2=
=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D these into small message sizes or place these into a l=
arge message.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Some applications may always want to =E2=80=
=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D into message sizes smaller than 4096.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Some ap=
plication make work more efficiently utilizing large message size.=C2=A0 As=
 the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new applications ma=
y consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way to exchange amounts=
 of BGP data.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The decision on h=
ow to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer decision in a netwo=
rk.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP message =
it sends to the remote BGP peer.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The BGP capabilities in this d=
raft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.=C2=A0 These are facts of=
 basic BGP implementations<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)">[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflecto=
r having a mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some n=
ot.<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Fr=
om an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI with=
 an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than=C2=A0 4090 byte (e.g. having 10=
00 large communitiess)<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)">Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an =
IBGP peer not supporting EM?<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Sue]:=C2=A0 Gladly=E2=80=A6 <u></u><u></u></span></=
i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">A BGP route reflector (RR-A)=
 is peering with each of its BGP clients.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It agrees with each o=
f its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP Extended messages is a=
ccepted or not (based on capability announcement). <u></u><u></u></span></i=
></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Let us assume that BGP-C1 doe=
s not support extended messages, and =C2=A0BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support ext=
ended messages. <u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>=
<i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(3=
1,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b=
><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(=
31,73,125)">If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large c=
ommunities with =C2=A0a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via exte=
nded communities to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The policy in the RR must specify whether:=
 <u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_715297875910682865Mso=
ListParagraph"><u></u><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>a)<span style=3D"font:7pt &quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span></span><=
/i></b><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">the =E2=80=9Ctoo long=
=E2=80=9D attribute path length must be dropped, or <u></u><u></u></span></=
i></b></p><p class=3D"gmail-m_715297875910682865MsoListParagraph"><u></u><b=
><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(=
31,73,125)"><span>b)<span style=3D"font:7pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></span></span></i></b><u></u><span di=
r=3D"LTR"></span><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">the BGP attribute path can be truncated. <u>=
</u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">This i=
s a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation staff.=C2=A0=
 Each operator may choose to write this policy differently. <u></u><u></u><=
/span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Rather than specify=
 the numerous cases in the protocol specification, =C2=A0the previous discu=
ssions (private and public) asked us to trim this information out of the pr=
otocol specification. <u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the=
 sake of BESS, LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair spons=
or a draft that can be reviewed by all these WGs. <u></u><u></u></span></i>=
</b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i=
></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=E2=80=93 so I do not believe addi=
ng these facts to Randy=E2=80=99s draft is useful.=C2=A0 In fact, in the pr=
evious rounds of review this point was made. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Your question (and perhaps Jakob=
=E2=80=99s) is whether we have reached a time/place where the =E2=80=9Cchun=
king=E2=80=9D approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis? =C2=A0=C2=A0This =
draft does not make this statement.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The point of this draft is to enable=
 more efficient processing by increasing the message size for BGP peers tha=
t send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .=C2=A0=C2=A0 The choice to =E2=80=9Cchu=
nk=E2=80=9D or stream in large BGP message is an implementation choice for =
a particular BGP application.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A74<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><pre><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A73 s=
ays =E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;">A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send B=
GP<u></u><u></u></span></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35=
.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent =
to it.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=
=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[I believe=
 randy accepted this change with the following text in version 4 [upcoming =
below]]/. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73=
,125)">--------------<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Fin=
e. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><pre><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-=
serif;color:black">OLD: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">A BGP speaker<u></u><u></u></span></pre><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has recei=
ved the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Extended Messag=
e Capability from that peer.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blac=
k">NEW:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">A BGP speaker<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAY send Extended Messages to its pee=
r only if it has sent and received the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><pre><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,12=
5)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;c=
olor:black">=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Applications generating information which =
might be encapsulated<u></u><u></u></span></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,=
73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their p=
ayload to take the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,12=
5)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(31,73,125)">&gt;<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125=
)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I=
 don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none=
, I would suggest to remove this sentence<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bruno =E2=80=93 people asked to put =
this text in as an operational warning.=C2=A0 At this point, I=E2=80=99m go=
ing to say unless there is harm it should remain.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4=
pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:b=
lack">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate through=
out the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers=
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 which do not have the Extended Message capability.=C2=A0 Therefore,<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 pu=
tting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 less in a=
n Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial=
,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-s=
erif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">The issue is not specific to attributes =
bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP message whose length is bigger than </s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-s=
erif;color:black">4096, irrespective of the size of each attribute.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Please elaborate on w=
hat you mean by </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)">&gt;<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&=
gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:=
black">=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets=E2=80=
=9D<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attrib=
ute with length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attr=
ibute to be included.=C2=A0 =C2=A0No such attribute exists today.=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0If a small BGP peers create a =E2=80=9Ckiller application=E2=80=9D that =
uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have to use i=
t.=C2=A0=C2=A0 However, the person defining that attribute must carefully s=
pecify it must go with Extended BGP messages. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno] I don=E2=80=99t think that I agr=
ee with this. E.g. I don=E2=80=99t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)comm=
unity] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I don=E2=80=99t see why yo=
u could not have, today (with Extended Message support) , attributes larger=
 than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attribute since=
 they wanted for more space.</span></i></b><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></sp=
an></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Sue]: You make a good =
point about the possibility of large communities not limiting the size.=C2=
=A0 It is worthy of a change to both the large communities and a footnote i=
n Randy=E2=80=99s specification.=C2=A0 How about the addition of a single s=
entence to point people in the right direction. <u></u><u></u></span></i></=
b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Old/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:bl=
ack">=C2=A0=C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate th=
roughout the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 which do not hav=
e the Extended Message capability.=C2=A0 Therefore,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 putting an attribute which can not=
 be decomposed to 4096 octets or<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;colo=
r:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routi=
ng failure.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">/<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">New/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack">=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP=
 speakers<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 w=
hich do not have the Extended Message capability.=C2=A0 Therefore,<u></u><u=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 putting an attribut=
e which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 less in an Extended Message is a likely=
 path to routing failure.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black=
">=C2=A0=C2=A0 One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely d=
ecomposed if it <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 10=
00 communities. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0(12,000 bytes).=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:black">/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 <u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></i></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">This text was added during an earlier discussion where th=
e error cases of a large BGP attribute was given.=C2=A0 The originator of t=
he common could not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put thi=
s =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cwarning label=E2=80=9D into the draft.=C2=A0=C2=A0 This is=
 one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to be problematic. <u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,12=
5)">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"marg=
in-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Arial,sans-serif;color:black">---<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9C=C2=A0=C2=A0 It=
 is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New=
&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">What does this mean exactly? =
That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;T</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Arial,sans-serif">hat they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO =
BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.=
4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)">This warning was text that other participants asked to be adde=
d. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.=
4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is a common sense warning.=C2=A0 Extended m=
essages are enabled on a peer by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.=C2=
=A0 If you run into a Peer that does not support the larger sizes, the BGP =
messages will need to be reformatted to the smaller size.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Runni=
ng immediately to the Extended messages as the default could cause problems=
. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4=
pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125=
)">[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the pr=
oblem, how the specification partially address it, and how the specificatio=
n does not address it.<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)">In =E2=80=9CRunning immediately to Extended Message=E2=80=
=9D I don=E2=80=99t think they that the issue is with =E2=80=9Cimmediately=
=E2=80=9D. Whenever you start the transition, your likely to run into probl=
ems.<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"=
>[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire an=
d the appropriate error handling of the messages.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If I have mis=
sed something in this case, please let me know. <u></u><u></u></span></i></=
b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i><=
/b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The specification does not spec=
ify the necessary policies implementation should have in order to decide wh=
at to do in the case of mixed network.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The clear indication was=
 this type was not appropriate for the protocol specification. =C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Earlier d=
iscussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism specific.=C2=A0 It i=
s worthy of =E2=80=9Cuse case or application notes=E2=80=9D written for spe=
cific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.=C2=
=A0 Again, if it is significant enough concern for operators and implemente=
rs =E2=80=93 it would be worthy to have combined use case document besides =
this point. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I=E2=80=99m happy to sponsor cross-area work =
on this use case. <u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">---<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0 Future protocol specifications will need to d=
escribe how to handle<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet me=
ssages.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:b=
lack"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Ar=
ial,sans-serif">Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, usi=
ng existing BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * <span style=3D"color:rgb=
(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the size of 4096 octe=
ts. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this <span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">?&gt;</span>case? This should be described in this specif=
ication. Note that this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP <span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt; </span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">speaker is behaving as specif=
ied.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I fail to see your logic.=C2=
=A0 At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attributes) must fit within a=
 4096 message.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Therefore, a BGP peer A which connects on link 1=
 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C with extended =
messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.=
4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(31,73,125)">In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NL=
RI that does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will ne=
ed to define how that works in the specification.=C2=A0 There is no need to=
 refine the current set of specifications.=C2=A0=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno]<u></u><u></u></span></i><=
/b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">1) cf above, I believe that the=
re are existing BGP Attributes which may not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP mess=
age<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">2)=
Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller attr=
ibutes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-=
size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The probl=
em is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this specification =
needs to specify how to handle this case.<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(31,73,125)">[Sue]: =C2=A0IHMO the message transmission and reception e=
rror handling issues are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the ext=
ended message section 5. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">What is=
 not in this specification is the policy issues about what happens if you c=
ombine 2 smaller attributes.=C2=A0 For example, if you have a large communi=
ty attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run into prob=
lems when combining with some longer AS path lengths.=C2=A0 [4800</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C3=
=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)"> 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-p=
erson argued this was policy and implementation specific details.=C2=A0 <u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I agree with you that it is extreme=
ly useful to the operator community to have this type of policy details dis=
cussed to see if there is some desire to have common policies and error com=
munities. =C2=A0=C2=A0It is the type of thing that GROW and IDR should be d=
eeply involved for large communities.=C2=A0 =C2=A0BESS, LSVR, SPRING and ot=
hers should consider what policy should be adapted for their applications. =
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Depending on the above =
specification, a section describing the operational consequences in a netwo=
rk (such as the </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN net=
works) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI </span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;=
color:black">being removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) com=
munity (such as Route Targets) been removed. </span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Both havi=
ng significant consequences on the availability provided by the network.</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">At this point, there are no attributes =
or NLRI groupings that do not fit within 4096.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If you define on=
e (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRIN=
G, and operational groups (GROW, etc).=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno] no, cf above.<u></u><u></u></span></=
i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Sue]: =C2=A0Thank you for r=
eminding me of the potential of large communities to blow up BGP.=C2=A0 I h=
ave a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list! <u></u><u></u></span></i></=
b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i><=
/b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></i=
></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">--Bruno<u></u><u></u></span><=
/i></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.=
4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:=
black">---<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A74<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">OLD: The Extended Messag=
e Capability only applies to all messages except for the <span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>OPEN message. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Probably<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;">NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message ty=
pes except for the <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span>OPEN mes=
sage (type 1). <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier Ne=
w&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">----<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A78<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CThi=
s extension to BGP does not change BGP&#39;s underlying security issues=C2=
=A0=C2=BB<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">Before evaluating this, I think this document should first speci=
fied how a BGP <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></=
span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">messages bigge=
r than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a <span style=3D"=
color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></pre><pre style=3D"margi=
n-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;">received not supporting this extension.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Nits:<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(3=
1,73,125)">&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Couri=
er New&quot;">OLD=C2=A0: to reduce compexity<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&gt;</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">NEW=C2=A0: to=
 reduce complexity<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-se=
rif;color:black">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif;color:black">--Bruno<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:A=
rial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"b=
order-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1.5pt solid=
 blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-=
bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:=
3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span l=
ang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</sp=
an></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-se=
rif"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto=
:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last C=
all on Extened Message Support<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Th=
is begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-id=
r-bgp-extended-messages-27).=C2=A0 You can access the draft at: <u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><a=
 href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa=
ges/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messa=
ges/</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;c=
olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;co=
lor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;color:black">The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Implementers are encouraged to update the=C2=A0 implementation=
 data at: <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;colo=
r:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:35.4pt"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-implementations" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/dr=
aft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span></a><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">The draft provides a m=
eans for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages except =
OPEN messages.=C2=A0 BGP message space is running short for all of the pote=
ntial attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.=C2=A0 <u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">The W=
G chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current level of=
 implementation.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif;color:black">As you comment on the draft, please consider if:=
 a) the technology is mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message woul=
d be helpful for those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification =
is ready for publication.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-f=
amily:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p></div><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"=
FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas">_________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____________________<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:3=
5.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas"><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=
=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas">Ce message et ses pie=
ces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegie=
es et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:3=
5.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas">pas =
etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce =
message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre sty=
le=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Consolas">a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces joint=
es. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><=
u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas">Orange decline toute responsabili=
te si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre><pre styl=
e=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:Consolas">This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
privileged information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></span></=
pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:=
10pt;font-family:Consolas">they should not be distributed, used or copied w=
ithout authorisation.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:3=
5.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Consolas">If y=
ou have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete t=
his message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Con=
solas">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that hav=
e been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=
=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></span></pre></div><pre style=3D"margi=
n-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR">__________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
____<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=
=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">=
<span lang=3D"FR">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des inf=
ormations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u><=
/span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR">pas etre di=
ffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message=
 par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"m=
argin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR">a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ains=
i que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#=
39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">=
<span lang=3D"FR">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete a=
ltere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"=
margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre><pre=
 style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR">This message and its attach=
ments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protec=
ted by law;<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"FR">they should not be distributed, used or copied without autho=
risation.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span=
 lang=3D"FR">If you have received this email in error, please notify the se=
nder and delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></span></pre=
><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR">As emails may be alter=
ed, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or f=
alsified.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span=
 lang=3D"FR">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">__=
___________________________________________________________________________=
____________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre=
><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">=
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre><=
span lang=3D"FR">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. =
Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u>=
</span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi=
 que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#3=
9;alteration,<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">Orange decli=
ne toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Me=
rci.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">This message and its attachments may con=
tain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<u=
></u><u></u></span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">they should not be distribu=
ted, used or copied without authorisation.<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre><=
span lang=3D"FR">If you have received this email in error, please notify th=
e sender and delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable =
for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></=
span></pre><pre><span lang=3D"FR">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></span></pre></di=
v></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Robert:=20

=20

Thank you for your message and your concerns regarding BGP in the =
Internet.   See my comments below.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 12:34 PM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: Bruno Decraene; idr@ietf. org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Dear Sue & authors of this proposal,

=20

>> Therefore, putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to=20

>> 4096 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to=20

>> routing failure.

>That's brilliant statement but not enough to proceed with this spec.=20

>See the fundamental change that today such issue is in vast majority of =
cases locally significant. That means that if I send NLRI to BGP it will =
have a decent chance to be received by all intended parties.=20

[Sue]: The reason you receive this NLRI is due to the peer-wise =
agreements of all the BGP peers in the cloud.  Each peer agrees to send =
routing based on its policies and capabilities.   Policy and =
implementation specific details are not in BGP specifications.=20

>With new spec we are saying that it may silently fail somewhere in the =
middle and we do not do anything about it. That's to me showstopper.=20

[Sue]: Where do you see the point it must silently fail or an operator =
will not do anything about it? =20

The error message handling specified in the draft and in RFC4271.  If =
see errors in the error handling as specified please send that to the =
list.   These errors must be on the peer-to-peer protocol exchange.=20

The peer-wise agreements specify the length of a BGP message.  BGP peers =
receiving a large packet and expecting to send it to a peer which has =
4096 bytes as a message size, will need to repackage it.  If it cannot =
be repackaged, then the BGP implementation needs to warn the operator.   =
If the BGP peers cannot repackage BGP messages today, there should be =
error messages and =E2=80=9Cbells=E2=80=9D ringing.  If the =
implementation does not have the appropriate warning systems, please see =
your vendor.

What show stopper deployed today are you talking about?  I do not =
perceive any show-stopper on the peer-to-peer communication.=20

At min if given NLRI can not be sent with XXL attributes to some peers =
(say on the RR which Bruno mentioned) we must specify protocol extension =
in this very spec on how to deal with it.=20

[Sue]:  We cannot send the 12K large community attribute now.  This =
protocol specification deals with what happens when you send and receive =
BGP packets.  The BGP peers negotiate the length of the BGP message that =
can be sent/received.  It has been tested and deployed (see comment =
about OpenDaylight) for some years. =20

Your description indicates a =E2=80=9Cnetwork-wide=E2=80=9D requirement. =
 A network-wide requirement is based on the specific needs of an =
application + BGP.  For example, some Data center BGP applications are =
very different than EVPN BGP over MPLS. =20

Such extension may be as simple as to define a short attribute =
BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN which will be inserted in the place where XXL =
attribute just did not fit smaller message size peers to tell them then =
"Hey something is broken with this NLRI" - pls check. Then it will be up =
to local policy to install such NLRI or drop it.=20

[sue]This idea is orthogonal to the basic BGP engine.  It is similar to =
ideas that have been kicked around in Grow and IDR for a while.  If this =
use case gives new focus to these ideas, please write a specification =
and suggest it to the IDR and Grow WG.   IDR can look at the passage of =
error messages.  Grow can look at how useful it is for the general BGP.  =
We=E2=80=99ve talk about the error message concept for 10+ years, but =
the tradeoff for the error message has not given enough benefits to =
operators.    Perhaps this is the =E2=80=9Ckiller-application=E2=80=9D =
application.. =20

Thx,
R.

=20

=20

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

Bruno:=20

=20

Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have =
translation issues between our =E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D language again =
so I have tried to be precise in the detailed comments.  I=E2=80=99ve =
summarized my comments as well to help us take the next step.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

Summary

----

Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size!  This is a case where a code path could get caught with program =
error.  The error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the =
extended specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is =
longer than the message.   Please let me know if I=E2=80=99ve missed =
something.  =20

=20

As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to =
add notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly =
combine RFC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The =
implementers and operations people commented earlier that this should =
not be in the protocol specification other than as a brief footnote. =20

=20

I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular =
use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), =
SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs =
(rtgwg), and SPRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should =
consider if there is need for standardization for a minimal set of =
policy for message sizes for specific use cases.   I will be glad to =
send request to these WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy =
that can be used across all use cases.=20

=20

To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about this change to paragraph in section 4:=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 =
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

[PS =E2=80=93 in American English =E2=80=9CCan not=E2=80=9D is normally =
concatenated =E2=80=9Ccannot=E2=80=9D.]=20

  =20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Sue,

=20

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:=20

=20

I=E2=80=99d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on =
comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received =
on this draft in our last WG LCs.  =20

=20

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other =
questions.   This gets into a catch-22=E2=80=A6 problem =E2=80=93 where =
you put changes in for one person/take out the changes out for another.  =
In academic circles this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 =
insists changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during =
publication.  Therefore, I=E2=80=99m I am going to answer most of your =
questions where this is the case. =20

=20

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=E2=80=99ve =
indicated.  I=E2=80=99m hoping he=E2=80=99ll just post that version.  =
AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

=20

<shepherd hat on>=20

This draft=E2=80=99s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether =
=E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large =
amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effective for a =
particular application is something only an implementer of a particular =
BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives freedom for =
applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message size.  =
The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.=20

=20

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which =
=E2=80=9Cchunks=E2=80=9D BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve =
substantial rework of the implementation. =20

=20

=20

(snip)=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

>Please find below some comments.

>As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 =
(core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation. =20

=20


>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended- =
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eimple=
mentations> >implementations says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the =
capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..=20

>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension =
for a niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the >arguments for not =
requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should =
have indicate

>full support.   I=E2=80=99m waiting for Olivier to update based on the =
last point, but my understanding is that=20

All implementations have full support. =20

=20

[Bruno] ok, solved

>----

>=C2=A7 1

>=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

>   newer capabilities (e.g., [ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =
=E2=80=9C

>=20

> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1

=20

=20

>[ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any >reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. =
Can we have an update on this?  Can the introduction of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >be updated to introduce on the =
real reasons/needs?

=20

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=E2=80=99s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.   The security people were very sad about the reduction.  =
How is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question. =20

=20

The real problem is there is finite message space. =20

[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message space is still limited)

=20

[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) =
is probably enough for 10 years.  =20

=20

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =
=E2=80=93 to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D these into small message sizes or =
place these into a large message.    Some applications may always want =
to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D into message sizes smaller than 4096.   Some =
application make work more efficiently utilizing large message size.  As =
the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new applications =
may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way to exchange =
amounts of BGP data.   =20

=20

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer =
decision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the =
BGP message it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in =
this draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are =
facts of basic BGP implementations

[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a =
mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.

>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI =
with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having =
1000 large communitiess)

Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not =
supporting EM?

[Sue]:  Gladly=E2=80=A6=20

A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.   =
It agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the =
BGP Extended messages is accepted or not (based on capability =
announcement).=20

Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  =
BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support extended messages.=20

=20

If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities with  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via =
extended communities to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.

The policy in the RR must specify whether:=20

a)      the =E2=80=9Ctoo long=E2=80=9D attribute path length must be =
dropped, or=20

b)      the BGP attribute path can be truncated.=20

=20

This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff.  Each operator may choose to write this policy differently.=20

=20

Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,  =
the previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this =
information out of the protocol specification.=20

=20

If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS, =
LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft =
that can be reviewed by all these WGs.=20

=20

=20

=E2=80=93 so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy=E2=80=99s =
draft is useful.  In fact, in the previous rounds of review this point =
was made.=20

=20

Your question (and perhaps Jakob=E2=80=99s) is whether we have reached a =
time/place where the =E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D approach will fail on a =
peer-by-peer basis?   This draft does not make this statement. =20

=20

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. =
BGP-LS) .   The choice to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D or stream in large BGP =
message is an implementation choice for a particular BGP application. =20

=20

----

=C2=A74

=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability =
MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=E2=80=9D

[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version =
4 [upcoming below]]/.=20

=20

--------------

=20

Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

=20

----

>=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated

>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

>   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D

>=20

>I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

Bruno =E2=80=93 people asked to put this text in as an operational =
warning.  At this point, I=E2=80=99m going to say unless there is harm =
it should remain. =20

[Bruno] OK.

=20

----

>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the

>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

>=20

>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.

>Please elaborate on what you mean by=20

>=20

>=E2=80=9Can attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 =
octets=E2=80=9D

=20

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute =
to be included.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers =
create a =E2=80=9Ckiller application=E2=80=9D that uses a 6000 byte =
attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have to use it.   However, =
the person defining that attribute must carefully specify it must go =
with Extended BGP messages.=20

=20

=20

[Bruno] I don=E2=80=99t think that I agree with this. E.g. I =
don=E2=80=99t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the =
size of their attribute. Hence I don=E2=80=99t see why you could not =
have, today (with Extended Message support) , attributes larger than =
4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attribute since =
they wanted for more space.

[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities =
not limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large =
communities and a footnote in Randy=E2=80=99s specification.  How about =
the addition of a single sentence to point people in the right =
direction.=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 =
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

 =20

=20

This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases =
of a large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could =
not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  =
=E2=80=9Cwarning label=E2=80=9D into the draft.   This is one of the =
cases where adding/removing text gets to be problematic.=20

=20

>---

>=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and =
implementers are

>   conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D

>=20

>What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this =
extension?=20

>That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.=20

=20

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer =
by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that =
does not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be =
reformatted to the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended =
messages as the default could cause problems.=20

=20

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the =
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the =
specification does not address it.

In =E2=80=9CRunning immediately to Extended Message=E2=80=9D I =
don=E2=80=99t think they that the issue is with =
=E2=80=9Cimmediately=E2=80=9D. Whenever you start the transition, your =
likely to run into problems.

=20

=20

[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire =
and the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed =
something in this case, please let me know.=20

=20

The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation =
should have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.  =
 The clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol =
specification. =20

=20

Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.  It is worthy of =E2=80=9Cuse case or application =
notes=E2=80=9D written for specific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), =
but not in the specification.  Again, if it is significant enough =
concern for operators and implementers =E2=80=93 it would be worthy to =
have combined use case document besides this point.    I=E2=80=99m happy =
to sponsor cross-area work on this use case.=20

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed =
the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in =
this ?>case? This should be described in this specification. Note that =
this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP=20

> speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and =
attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A =
which connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to =
a BGP peer C with extended messages only has to worry about reformatting =
the data. =20

=20

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine =
the current set of specifications.  =20

[Bruno]

1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may =
not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message

2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller =
attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.

=20

The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this =
specification needs to specify how to handle this case.

=20

[Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling =
issues are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended =
message section 5.=20

=20

What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a =
large community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will =
likely run into problems when combining with some longer AS path =
lengths.  [4800=C3=A0 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list =
and in-person argued this was policy and implementation specific =
details. =20

=20

I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community =
to have this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some =
desire to have common policies and error communities.   It is the type =
of thing that GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large =
communities.   BESS, LSVR, SPRING and others should consider what policy =
should be adapted for their applications.=20

=20

>----

>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP =
Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences =
could be BGP NLRI >being removed in the middle of such network, or =
(extended) community (such as Route Targets) been removed. >Both having =
significant consequences on the availability provided by the network.

=20

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit =
within 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to =
have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, =
etc).=20

[Bruno] no, cf above.

[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities =
to blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list!=20

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

=20

---

>=C2=A74

>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages =
except for the >OPEN message.=20

>Probably

>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types =
except for the >OPEN message (type 1).=20

>----

>=C2=A78

>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying =
security issues =C2=BB
>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified =
how a BGP=20
>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to =
a=20
>received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

>OLD : to reduce compexity

>NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

 =
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tations> =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running =
short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by =
BGP-LS features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Robert: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for your message and your concerns regarding BGP in the =
Internet. =C2=A0=C2=A0See my comments below. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, =
February 14, 2019 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> Bruno =
Decraene; idr@ietf. org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on =
Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Dear Sue &amp; authors of this =
proposal,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&gt; =
Therefore,&nbsp;putting an attribute which&nbsp;cannot be decomposed =
to&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&gt; =
4096 octets or&nbsp;less in an Extended Message is a likely path =
to&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&gt; =
routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>That's =
brilliant statement but not enough to proceed with this =
spec.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>See the =
fundamental change that today such issue is in vast majority of cases =
locally</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>significant. That means that if I send NLRI to BGP it =
will have a decent chance to be received by all intended =
parties.&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: The reason you receive this NLRI is due to the peer-wise =
agreements of all the BGP peers in the cloud.=C2=A0 Each peer agrees to =
send routing based on its policies and capabilities. =C2=A0=C2=A0Policy =
and implementation specific details are not in BGP specifications. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>With =
new spec we are saying that it may silently fail</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'> =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>somewhere in the middle and we do not do anything =
about it. That's to me showstopper.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: Where do you see the point it must =
silently fail or an operator will not do anything about it?=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The error message handling specified in the draft and in =
RFC4271.=C2=A0 If see errors in the error handling as specified please =
send that to the list. =C2=A0=C2=A0These errors must be on the =
peer-to-peer protocol exchange. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The peer-wise agreements specify the length of a BGP message. =
=C2=A0BGP peers receiving a large packet and expecting to send it to a =
peer which has 4096 bytes as a message size, will need to repackage =
it.=C2=A0 If it cannot be repackaged, then the BGP implementation needs =
to warn the operator.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the BGP peers cannot repackage BGP =
messages today, there should be error messages and =
=E2=80=9Cbells=E2=80=9D ringing.=C2=A0 If the implementation does not =
have the appropriate warning systems, please see your =
vendor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What show stopper deployed today are you talking about? =C2=A0I do =
not perceive any show-stopper on the peer-to-peer communication. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>At min =
if given NLRI can not be sent with XXL attributes to some peers (say on =
the RR which Bruno mentioned) we must specify protocol extension&nbsp;in =
this very spec on how to deal with it.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: =C2=A0We cannot send the 12K large =
community attribute now.=C2=A0 This protocol specification deals with =
what happens when you send and receive BGP packets. =C2=A0The BGP peers =
negotiate the length of the BGP message that can be sent/received.=C2=A0 =
It has been tested and deployed (see comment about OpenDaylight) for =
some years.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Your description indicates a =
=E2=80=9Cnetwork-wide=E2=80=9D requirement.=C2=A0 A network-wide =
requirement is based on the specific needs of an application + =
BGP.=C2=A0 For example, some Data center BGP applications are very =
different than EVPN BGP over MPLS. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Such =
extension may be as simple as to define a short attribute =
BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN which will be inserted in the place where XXL =
attribute just did not fit smaller message size peers to tell them then =
&quot;Hey something is broken with this NLRI&quot; - pls check. Then it =
will be up to local policy to install such NLRI or drop =
it.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[sue]This idea is orthogonal to the basic BGP engine.=C2=A0 It is =
similar to ideas that have been kicked around in Grow and IDR for a =
while.=C2=A0 If this use case gives new focus to these ideas, please =
write a specification and suggest it to the IDR and Grow WG.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IDR can look at the passage of error messages.=C2=A0 Grow can look at =
how useful it is for the general BGP. =C2=A0We=E2=80=99ve talk about the =
error message concept for 10+ years, but the tradeoff for the error =
message has not given enough benefits to operators.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0Perhaps this is the =E2=80=9Ckiller-application=E2=80=9D =
application.. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Thx,<br>R.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.&nbsp;&nbsp; I =
think we have translation issues between our =E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D =
language again so I have tried to be precise in the detailed =
comments.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve summarized my comments as well to help us =
take the next step. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Summary</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size!&nbsp; This is a case where a code path could get caught with =
program error.&nbsp; The error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per =
section 5 in the extended specification) IMHO handles the case where the =
attribute is longer than the message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Please let me know if =
I=E2=80=99ve missed something. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As I understand it, &nbsp;you are asking this specification to be =
expanded to add notes on policies on what implementation should do to =
correctly combine RFC4271 length sizes with extended length =
sizes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The implementers and operations people commented =
earlier that this should not be in the protocol specification other than =
as a brief footnote.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for =
particular use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized =
controller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments =
yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.&nbsp; &nbsp;I think the chairs =
of the WGs utilizing should consider if there is need for =
standardization for a minimal set of policy for message sizes for =
specific use cases.&nbsp;&nbsp; I will be glad to send request to these =
WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy that can be used =
across all use cases. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about this change to paragraph in section 4: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which =
cannot be precisely decomposed if it </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large =
community attribute with 1000 communities. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[PS =
=E2=80=93 in American English =E2=80=9CCan not=E2=80=9D is normally =
concatenated =E2=80=9Ccannot=E2=80=9D.] </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks for the reply. Please see inline =
[Bruno]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" =
target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
February 13, 2019 8:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno =
TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I=E2=80=99d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based =
on comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd =
received on this draft in our last WG LCs. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other =
questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets into a catch-22=E2=80=A6 problem =
=E2=80=93 where you put changes in for one person/take out the changes =
out for another.&nbsp; In academic circles this is called the reviewer =
#2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes =
go out) during publication.&nbsp; Therefore, I=E2=80=99m I am going to =
answer most of your questions where this is the case.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=E2=80=99ve =
indicated.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99m hoping he=E2=80=99ll just post that =
version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&lt;shepherd hat on&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This draft=E2=80=99s technology provides efficient processing for =
some application by allow a huge BGP message size.&nbsp; Whether =
=E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large =
amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effective for a =
particular application is something only an implementer of a particular =
BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide. &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft simply gives =
freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small =
message size.&nbsp; The market place will choose whether this technology =
is used or not.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation =
which =E2=80=9Cchunks=E2=80=9D BGP data into 4096 byte messages may =
involve substantial rework of the implementation.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>&nbsp;</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><i><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(snip) </span></i><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> 29 =
January 2019 13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" =
target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last =
Call on Extened Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D636 =
style=3D'width:476.9pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%=
3eimplementations" =
target=3D"_blank">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-=
extended-&gt;implementations</a> says : </span>5a =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>implementations sends the capability =
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here this =
document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable =
implementations.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report =
should have indicate</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=E2=80=99m waiting for Olivier to =
update based on the last point, but my understanding is that =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>All implementations have full support. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] ok, solved</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A7 =
1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9C</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1" =
target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended=
-messages-27#section-1</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>Can we have an update on this?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> &nbsp;</span>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'color:black'>be =
updated to introduce on the real =
reasons/needs?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=E2=80=99s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; The security people were very sad about the =
reduction.&nbsp; How is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer =
this question.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The real problem is there is finite message space.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message space is still limited)</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile), &nbsp;but I hope 65,635 =
(smile) is probably enough for 10 years.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =
=E2=80=93 to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D these into small message sizes or =
place these into a large message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some applications =
may always want to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D into message sizes smaller =
than 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently =
utilizing large message size.&nbsp; As the potential number of NLRI and =
BGP attributes grows, new applications may consider large message sizes =
to a more reasonable way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a =
peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp; &nbsp;Each BGP peer is in =
charge of reformatting the BGP message it sends to the remote BGP =
peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this draft represent an =
agreement between two BGP peers.&nbsp; These are facts of basic BGP =
implementations</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector =
having a mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some =
not.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) =
NLRI with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than&nbsp; 4090 byte =
(e.g. having 1000 large communitiess)</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer =
not supporting EM?</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]:&nbsp; Gladly=E2=80=A6 </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP =
clients.&nbsp; &nbsp;It agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, =
BGPC3) whether the BGP Extended messages is accepted or not (based on =
capability announcement). </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and =
&nbsp;BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support extended messages. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities with &nbsp;a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via =
extended communities to BGP-C2 and =
BGP-C2.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The policy in the RR must specify whether: =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m715297875910682865msolistparagraph><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>a)</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the =E2=80=9Ctoo long=E2=80=9D attribute path length must be dropped, =
or </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m715297875910682865msolistparagraph><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>b)</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the BGP attribute path can be truncated. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff.&nbsp; Each operator may choose to write this policy differently. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification, =
&nbsp;the previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim =
this information out of the protocol specification. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of =
BESS, LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a =
draft that can be reviewed by all these WGs. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=E2=80=93 so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy=E2=80=99s =
draft is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the previous rounds of review this =
point was made. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your question (and perhaps Jakob=E2=80=99s) is whether we have =
reached a time/place where the =E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D approach will =
fail on a peer-by-peer basis? &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does not make this =
statement.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. =
BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choice to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D or stream in =
large BGP message is an implementation choice for a particular BGP =
application.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A74</span=
><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A73 says =
=E2=80=9C</span>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=9D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in =
version 4 [upcoming below]]/. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--------------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
..e.g.</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OLD: </span>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span=
 =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=80=9C</span>&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno =E2=80=93 people asked to put this text in as an operational =
warning.&nbsp; At this point, I=E2=80=99m going to say unless there is =
harm it should remain.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
096, irrespective of the size of each attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=
=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 =
octets=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute =
to be included.&nbsp; &nbsp;No such attribute exists today.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a =E2=80=9Ckiller application=E2=80=9D =
that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have =
to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person defining that attribute must =
carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] I don=E2=80=99t think that I agree with this. E.g. I =
don=E2=80=99t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the =
size of their attribute. Hence I don=E2=80=99t see why you could not =
have, today (with Extended Message support) , attributes larger than =
4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attribute since =
they wanted for more space.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large =
communities not limiting the size.&nbsp; It is worthy of a change to =
both the large communities and a footnote in Randy=E2=80=99s =
specification.&nbsp; How about the addition of a single sentence to =
point people in the right direction. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which =
cannot be precisely decomposed if it </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large =
community attribute with 1000 communities. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error =
cases of a large BGP attribute was given.&nbsp; The originator of the =
common could not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put =
this &nbsp;=E2=80=9Cwarning label=E2=80=9D into the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
This is one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to be =
problematic. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol =
developers and implementers are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;T</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>hat they =
don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This warning was text that other participants asked to be added. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is a common sense warning.&nbsp; Extended messages are enabled on =
a peer by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into =
a Peer that does not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will =
need to be reformatted to the smaller size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running =
immediately to the Extended messages as the default could cause =
problems. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the =
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the =
specification does not address it.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In =E2=80=9CRunning immediately to Extended Message=E2=80=9D I =
don=E2=80=99t think they that the issue is with =
=E2=80=9Cimmediately=E2=80=9D. Whenever you start the transition, your =
likely to run into problems.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the =
wire and the appropriate error handling of the messages.&nbsp; &nbsp;If =
I have missed something in this case, please let me know. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The specification does not specify the necessary policies =
implementation should have in order to decide what to do in the case of =
mixed network.&nbsp; &nbsp;The clear indication was this type was not =
appropriate for the protocol specification. =
&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.&nbsp; It is worthy of =E2=80=9Cuse case or application =
notes=E2=80=9D written for specific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), =
but not in the specification.&nbsp; Again, if it is significant enough =
concern for operators and implementers =E2=80=93 it would be worthy to =
have combined use case document besides this point. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I=E2=80=99m happy to sponsor cross-area work on this =
use case. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet =
messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>?&gt;</span>case? This should be described =
in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, =
as every BGP </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I fail to see your logic.&nbsp; At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI =
and attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a =
BGP peer A which connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and =
on link to a BGP peer C with extended messages only has to worry about =
reformatting the data.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define how that works in the specification.&nbsp; There is no need to =
refine the current set of specifications.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno]</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which =
may not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP =
message</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 =
smaller attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes =
message.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this =
specification needs to specify how to handle this =
case.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: &nbsp;IHMO the message transmission and reception error =
handling issues are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the =
extended message section 5. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if you combine 2 smaller attributes.&nbsp; For example, if you =
have a large community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you =
will likely run into problems when combining with some longer AS path =
lengths.&nbsp; [4800</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>=C3=A0</sp=
an><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued =
this was policy and implementation specific details.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator =
community to have this type of policy details discussed to see if there =
is some desire to have common policies and error communities. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;It is the type of thing that GROW and IDR should be deeply =
involved for large communities.&nbsp; &nbsp;BESS, LSVR, SPRING and =
others should consider what policy should be adapted for their =
applications. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
nternet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible =
consequences could be BGP NLRI </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>b=
eing removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community =
(such as Route Targets) been removed. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
oth having significant consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not =
fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you define one (as SIDR did), then you =
will need to have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational =
groups (GROW, etc).&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] no, cf above.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: &nbsp;Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large =
communities to blow up BGP.&nbsp; I have a new worry to add to my BGP =
concerns list! </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks,</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--Bruno</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=C2=
=A74</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C2=A78</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does =
not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=C2=BB<o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP <o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>messages bigger than 4096 octets is =
handled when it needs to be sent to a <o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span>received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call =
on Extened Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>__________________________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
______</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou =
copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, =
veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que =
les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce =
message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>This message and its attachments may =
contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by =
law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>they should not be distributed, =
used or copied without authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>If you have received this email in error, =
please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be altered, Orange is not =
liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>If you have received this =
email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, =
Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Idr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><o:p></o:p=
></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Flowspec draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis last (known) issue that needs to be resolved
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Hi Jeffrey, IDR

After reviewing the feedback that I received on my last mail regarding =
the draft rfc5575bis (on the list as well as from the authors and Jie). =
I propose the following changes to the draft regarding  "Section 7.6. =
Rules on Traffic Action Interference=E2=80=9D:

*) Replace Section 7.6. Rules on Traffic Action Interference with the =
following:

<TEXT>

7.6. Considerations on Traffic Action Interference

Since traffic actions are represented as BGP extended community values,
traffic actions may interfere with each other (ie. there may be more =
then
one conflicting traffic-rate action associated with a single=20
flow-filter). Traffic action interference has no impact on BGP =
propagation
of flow filters (all communities should be propagated according to BGP =
policies).=20

If a flow filter associated with interfering flow actions is selected =
for
packet forwarding, it is a implementation decision which of the =
interfering=20
traffic action is selected. Implementors of this specification SHOULD=20
document the behaviour of their implementation in such cases.

Operators are encouraged to make use of the BGP policy framework=20
supported by their implementation in order to achieve a predictable =
behaviour=20
for their application (ie. match - replace - delete communities on=20
administrative boundaries).

</TEXT>

I will upload the changes soon if I receive no objections. However, I am =
happy to receive feedback on this.

Christoph=20

--=20
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at



> On 25.01.2019, at 23:35, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
>> *) Suggested solution B - only document the behaviour:
>>=20
>> We can add to the operational consideration section that there may be
>> interfering traffic actions. FS filters with interfering actions =
shall
>> still be propagated but the actual selection of the appropriate =
actions is
>> up to the implementation. If a network/fs-domain wide predictable
>> behaviour is needed for an application this can still be achieved by =
using
>> custom BGP communities and BGP policies (plus rewriting those to the
>> appropriated actions).
>>=20
>> This is very =E2=80=9Clightweight=E2=80=9D and I think that solution =
B may easily find
>> consensus. However the benefit over RFC5575 is only very little.
>>=20
>> Any preferences how we should proceed?
>=20
> I'd suggest B.
>=20
> The text I would suggest would roughly say:
> Traffic actions are encoded as BGP extended communities.  Traffic =
actions,
> in many cases, are expected to only be encoded once.  For example, =
only a
> single valid traffic-rate-bytes extended community can be processed at =
a
> time.  Operators should take precautions to not introduce conflicting
> actions as a result of policy configuration.
>=20
> ...
>=20
> There may be some worth in adding a similar comment to implementors =
about
> having good policy mechanisms to make this job easy for operators.




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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'" <jheitz@cisco.com>, 'John Scudder' <jgs@juniper.net>, 'Alvaro Retana' <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Susan,

We now agree that the problem can happen with existing BGP attributes. Good=
. So the argument to postpone the error handling discussion for future spec=
ification defining large attributes does not hold anymore.

Coming back to the draft,

Old/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.


1)      As a minor comment, the error is not limited to an (one single) att=
ribute (type) which size is bigger than 4096 octets. The error happens when=
 the Total Path Attribute Length (for all attributes) is bigger than 4096 o=
ctets.

2)      As a major comment, I am asking for the specification to specify ho=
w it handles that failure, which is not the result of a possible bug, but c=
reated by design by the solution. It will happen.

Your proposition to "raise an alarm" is required but not sufficient as we s=
till need to specify what we do with this "big" route. One option could be =
"treat as withdraw", another option suggested by Robert is to propagate the=
 NLRI with subset of attributes plus an indication of the failure ("a short=
 attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN"). There may be others options.

To trigger the discussion on the resolution, I would propose the following =
text "One BGP Route too large to be propagated to a BGP receiver not suppor=
ting BGP Extended Message MUST be handled, over this BGP session, using the=
 Treat-as-withdraw approach as defined in [RFC7606]. The BGP speaker MAY, b=
eforehand, remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to the Attribute d=
iscard approach [RFC7606]."

3)      Once error handling is specified, the draft will be able to discuss

a.       the operational considerations for this issue (e.g. The one from R=
FC7606 could be referenced as-is, or used as inspiration)

b.      the security considerations (as a remote attacker would be able to =
craft a large BGP route that will be withdrawn (assuming "treat-as-withdraw=
") somewhere in some AS, possibly creating routing inconsistencies within t=
he AS)

c.       the proposed mitigations (e.g., an operator should enable support =
for Extended messages on all IBGP sessions first, before enabling it on an =
EBGP session; If not possible, an operator could define a policy to filter =
BGP attributes from EBGP sessions, typically based on their type and size;.=
...)

more inline [Bruno2]


From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:20 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'; 'John Scudder'; 'Alvaro Retana'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have tra=
nslation issues between our "English" language again so I have tried to be =
precise in the detailed comments.  I've summarized my comments as well to h=
elp us take the next step.

Sue

Summary
----
Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message size!  =
This is a case where a code path could get caught with program error.  The =
error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended specif=
ication) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is longer than the messa=
ge.   Please let me know if I've missed something.

[Bruno2] I don't think that section 6.1 of RFC4271 covers this. The problem=
 is not a Message Header error handling as a proper BGP implementation woul=
d not sent the message. (not to mention with inconsistent size)

As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to ad=
d notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly combine R=
FC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The implementers and oper=
ations people commented earlier that this should not be in the protocol spe=
cification other than as a brief footnote.

[Bruno2]An error handling must exist even in the absence of SP policies. Th=
e argument related to previous discussions does not hold IMHO as I've raise=
d a new point (this happens with existing BGP attributes, not in a hypothet=
ical new attribute)

I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular use=
 cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), SPRING, B=
GP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and S=
PRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if there i=
s need for standardization for a minimal set of policy for message sizes fo=
r specific use cases.   I will be glad to send request to these WG or to ho=
st something in IDR if there is policy that can be used across all use case=
s.

[Bruno2] I don't think that Error handling is to be considered as optional =
or for future consideration.

To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how about =
this change to paragraph in section 4:

Old/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
/
New/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed if=
 it
   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 commun=
ities.
   (12,000 bytes).
/
[PS - in American English "Can not" is normally concatenated "cannot".]

[Bruno2] Thanks for the proposition, but this does not address my concern.


From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Sue,

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

I'd like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on comments (=
public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft=
 in our last WG LCs.

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other question=
s.   This gets into a catch-22... problem - where you put changes in for on=
e person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic circles this is=
 called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer=
 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I'm I am going t=
o answer most of your questions where this is the case.

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I've indicated.  I'm =
hoping he'll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implem=
entations.

Sue



<shepherd hat on>
This draft's technology provides efficient processing for some application =
by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether "chunking" BGP to 4096 byte mess=
ages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effe=
ctive for a particular application is something only an implementer of a pa=
rticular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives freedom =
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message size. =
 The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which "chu=
nks" BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the=
 implementation.


(snip)
From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hi WG,

>Please find below some comments.
>As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed =
to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended->implement=
ations<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3ei=
mplementations> says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the=
 above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the capability h=
ence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension fo=
r a niche use case. So I don't see the >arguments for not requiring the IDR=
's usual two interoperable implementations.

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should ha=
ve indicate
>full support.   I'm waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point,=
 but my understanding is that
All implementations have full support.

[Bruno] ok, solved
>----
>=A7 1
>" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
>   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgp=
sec-protocol>]), there is
>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1


>[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-=
bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 8205=
 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any >ref=
erence to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does =
not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. Can we have an update on th=
is?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >be updat=
ed to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR's work and took a reduced size of encryption.  =
 The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How is this workin=
g in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question.

The real problem is there is finite message space.
[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as messag=
e space is still limited)

[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) is p=
robably enough for 10 years.

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes - to "chunk=
" these into small message sizes or place these into a large message.    So=
me applications may always want to "chunk" into message sizes smaller than =
4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large message=
 size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new appli=
cations may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way to exchan=
ge amounts of BGP data.

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer de=
cision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP m=
essage it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this draf=
t represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of basic B=
GP implementations
[Bruno] Let's take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed of c=
lients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.
>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI wi=
th an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 =
large communitiess)
Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not sup=
porting EM?
[Sue]:  Gladly...
A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.   It =
agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP Exte=
nded messages is accepted or not (based on capability announcement).
Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  BGP-C2 a=
nd BGP-C3 do support extended messages.

If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large communities w=
ith  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended communities =
to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.
The policy in the RR must specify whether:

a)      the "too long" attribute path length must be dropped, or

b)      the BGP attribute path can be truncated.

This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation staff.=
  Each operator may choose to write this policy differently.
[Bruno2] So we agree that a new behavior is REQUIRED. The draft does not me=
ntion this. The ability to change the behavior by policy does not remove th=
e need for specifying the error handling.

Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,  the =
previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this information=
 out of the protocol specification.
[Bruno2] Can't be have a general rule which is good enough to handle the is=
sue? Previous discussions seemed based on the fact the error condition woul=
d happen for future attribute. This is not the case.

If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS, LSV=
R, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft that ca=
n be reviewed by all these WGs.
[Bruno2] I believe that this is worthy in this specification.


- so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy's draft is useful.  In fa=
ct, in the previous rounds of review this point was made.

Your question (and perhaps Jakob's) is whether we have reached a time/place=
 where the "chunking" approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis?   This dr=
aft does not make this statement.

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by increasin=
g the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .   =
The choice to "chunk" or stream in large BGP message is an implementation c=
hoice for a particular BGP application.

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."
[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version 4 =
[upcoming below]]/.

--------------

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.


----

>"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
>   maximum message size into account."
>
>I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wo=
uld suggest to remove this sentence

Bruno - people asked to put this text in as an operational warning.  At thi=
s point, I'm going to say unless there is harm it should remain.
[Bruno] OK.

----
>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BG=
P message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size of ea=
ch attribute.
>Please elaborate on what you mean by
>
>"an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets"

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with length=
 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be inc=
luded.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers create a "k=
iller application" that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Interne=
t does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that attribute mu=
st carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.


[Bruno] I don't think that I agree with this. E.g. I don't see where RFCs 1=
997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I =
don't see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message support) , a=
ttributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec=
 attribute since they wanted for more space.
[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities not=
 limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large communities=
 and a footnote in Randy's specification.  How about the addition of a sing=
le sentence to point people in the right direction.

Old/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
/
New/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed if=
 it
   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 commun=
ities.
   (12,000 bytes).
/



This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases of a=
 large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not pro=
vide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  "warning label" into=
 the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to b=
e problematic.

>---
>"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
>   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."
>
>What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension?
>That they don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer by p=
eer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that does no=
t support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to=
 the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as the de=
fault could cause problems.

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the probl=
em, how the specification partially address it, and how the specification d=
oes not address it.
In "Running immediately to Extended Message" I don't think they that the is=
sue is with "immediately". Whenever you start the transition, your likely t=
o run into problems.


[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire and=
 the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed somethi=
ng in this case, please let me know.
[Bruno2] IMHO specifications need to handle error conditions that they crea=
te by design.

The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation sh=
ould have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.   The=
 clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol specif=
ication.

Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism specific.  =
It is worthy of "use case or application notes" written for specific applic=
ations (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.  Again, if it is=
 significant enough concern for operators and implementers - it would be wo=
rthy to have combined use case document besides this point.    I'm happy to=
 sponsor cross-area work on this use case.

---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP=
 mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the size=
 of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this ?>case=
? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a c=
ase of error handling, as every BGP
> speaker is behaving as specified.

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attrib=
utes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A which conne=
cts on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C w=
ith extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that does =
not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to define =
how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the curren=
t set of specifications.
[Bruno]
1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may not=
 fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message
2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller at=
tributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.

The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this speci=
fication needs to specify how to handle this case.

[Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling issues a=
re complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended message section =
5.

What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what happens i=
f you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a large commu=
nity attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run into pr=
oblems when combining with some longer AS path lengths.  [4800--> 5096 byte=
s is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this was policy=
 and implementation specific details.
[Bruno2] It's not implementation specific. This is an issue created by the =
specification. Let's discuss it in public.

I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community to h=
ave this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some desire to=
 have common policies and error communities.   It is the type of thing that=
 GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.   BESS, LSVR=
, SPRING and others should consider what policy should be adapted for their=
 applications.

>----
>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational=
 consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN=
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI >bei=
ng removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as =
Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant consequences on the a=
vailability provided by the network.

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit wi=
thin 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it=
 reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).
[Bruno] no, cf above.
[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities to=
 blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list!
[Bruno2] IMHO, the problem is more with Extended Message than with large co=
mmunity. And we can work to consider and address this problem.
--Bruno

Thanks,
--Bruno


---
>=A74
>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except f=
or the >OPEN message.
>Probably
>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except f=
or the >OPEN message (type 1).
>----
>=A78

>"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =
=BB

>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a=
 BGP

>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a

>received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
>OLD : to reduce compexity
>NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



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<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"tab-interval:35.4=
pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D">Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">We now agree=
 that the problem can happen with existing BGP attributes. Good. So
 the argument to postpone the error handling discussion for future specific=
ation defining large attributes does not hold anymore.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Coming back =
to the draft,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which
<span class=3D"SpellE">can not</span> be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-=
ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As a=
 minor comment, the error is not limited to an (one single) attribute
 (type) which size is bigger than 4096 octets. The error happens when the T=
otal Path Attribute Length (for all attributes) is bigger than 4096 octets.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-=
ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As a=
 major comment, I am asking for the specification to specify how it
 handles that failure, which is not the result of a possible bug, but creat=
ed by design by the solution. It will happen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fami=
ly:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Your =
proposition to &#8220;raise an alarm&#8221; is required but not sufficient =
as we
 still need to specify what we do with this &#8220;big&#8221; route. One op=
tion could be &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221;, another option suggested by =
Robert is to propagate the NLRI with subset of attributes plus an indicatio=
n of the failure (&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US=
">a
 short attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bid=
i-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">&#8221;). There may be others options.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fami=
ly:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">To tr=
igger the discussion on the resolution, I would propose the following
 text &#8220;One BGP Route too large to be propagated to a BGP receiver not=
 supporting BGP Extended Message MUST be handled, over this BGP session, us=
ing the Treat-as-withdraw approach as defined in [RFC7606]. The BGP speaker=
 MAY, beforehand, remove some BGP attributes
 which are eligible to the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606].&#8221;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo3"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-=
ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Once=
 error handling is specified, the draft will be able to discuss
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the =
operational considerations for this issue (e.g. The one from RFC7606
 could be referenced as-is, or used as inspiration)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the =
security considerations (as a remote attacker would be able to craft
 a large BGP route that will be withdrawn (assuming &#8220;treat-as-withdra=
w&#8221;) somewhere in some AS, possibly creating routing inconsistencies w=
ithin the AS)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the =
proposed mitigations (e.g., an operator should enable support for
 Extended messages on all IBGP sessions first, before enabling it on an EBG=
P session; If not possible, an operator could define a policy to filter BGP=
 attributes from EBGP sessions, typically based on their type and size;&#82=
30;.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">more inline =
[Bruno2]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language=
:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; '<span class=3D"SpellE">Jakob</span> <span class=
=3D"SpellE">
Heitz</span> (<span class=3D"SpellE">jheitz</span>)'; 'John Scudder'; 'Alva=
ro <span class=3D"SpellE">
Retana</span>'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [<span class=3D"SpellE">Idr</span>] WG Last Call on <sp=
an class=3D"SpellE">
Extened</span> Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thank you for careful considerat=
ions on the use case.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think we have translation issues between
 our &#8220;English&#8221; language again so I have tried to be precise in =
the detailed comments. &nbsp;I&#8217;ve summarized my comments as well to h=
elp us take the next step.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Summary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Good catch on the 1000 large BGP=
 communities blowing up the message size! &nbsp;This is a case where
 a code path could get caught with program error.&nbsp; The error handling =
(section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended specification) IMHO h=
andles the case where the attribute is longer than the message.&nbsp; &nbsp=
;Please let me know if I&#8217;ve missed something. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] I d=
on&#8217;t think that section 6.1 of RFC4271 covers this. The problem is not
 a Message Header error handling as a proper BGP implementation would not s=
ent the message. (not to mention with inconsistent size)<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As I understand it, &nbsp;you ar=
e asking this specification to be expanded to add notes on policies
 on what implementation should do to correctly combine RFC4271 length sizes=
 with extended length sizes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The implementers and operations pe=
ople commented earlier that this should not be in the protocol specificatio=
n other than as a brief footnote.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2]An e=
rror handling must exist even in the absence of SP policies. The argument
 related to previous discussions does not hold IMHO as I&#8217;ve raised a =
new point (this happens with existing BGP attributes, not in a hypothetical=
 new attribute)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I agree there is a need for such=
 standardization as BCPs for particular use cases (large communities,
 BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Day=
light comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.&nbsp; &nbsp;I think=
 the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if there is need for stand=
ardization for a minimal set of policy for
 message sizes for specific use cases.&nbsp;&nbsp; I will be glad to send r=
equest to these WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy that can =
be used across all use cases.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] I d=
on&#8217;t think that Error handling is to be considered as optional or for
 future consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">To provide a slight expansion to=
 point people in this direction, how about this change to paragraph
 in section 4: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be de=
composed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">New/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which c=
annot be precisely decomposed if it
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large=
 community attribute with 1000 communities.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">[PS &#8211; in American English &#8220;Can not&#8221;=
 is normally concatenated &#8220;cannot&#8221;.]
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] Tha=
nks for the proposition, but this does not address my concern.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D">Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks for the reply. Please see=
 inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</s=
pan></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"> Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I&#8217;d like to answer some of=
 the questions you sent Randy based on comments (public and private)
 the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft in our last WG LCs=
. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Several of the comments you ques=
tioned were put in to answer other questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets into
 a catch-22&#8230; problem &#8211; where you put changes in for one person/=
take out the changes out for another.&nbsp; In academic circles this is cal=
led the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 i=
nsists changes go out) during publication. &nbsp;Therefore,
 I&#8217;m I am going to answer most of your questions where this is the ca=
se.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I believe that Randy has new ver=
sion with the changes I&#8217;ve indicated.&nbsp; I&#8217;m hoping he&#8217=
;ll just
 post that version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. <=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&lt;shepherd hat on&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This draft&#8217;s technology pr=
ovides efficient processing for some application by allow a huge BGP
 message size. &nbsp;Whether &#8220;chunking&#8221; BGP to 4096 byte messag=
es or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effect=
ive for a particular application is something only an implementer of a part=
icular BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide. &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft
 simply gives freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artificiall=
y small message size.&nbsp; The market place will choose whether this techn=
ology is used or not.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As Jakob pointed out, changing a=
 highly tuned BGP implementation which &#8220;chunks&#8221; BGP data into
 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the implementation.&n=
bsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">(snip)
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orange=
.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 13:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please
 find below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As
 of today, I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progress=
ed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; The WG chairs intend to forward=
 this draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"5" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"636" style=3D"width:476.9pt;mso-cellspacing:3.7pt;margin-le=
ft:70.8pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a hr=
ef=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eim=
plementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-exten=
ded-&gt;implementations</a>
 says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does not send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p=
></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I
 may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the a=
bove is that none of the reported
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>implementations sends the capabili=
ty hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Here
 this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a n=
iche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the ID=
R&#8217;s usual two interoperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;In our mail thread, we disco=
vered that the implementation report should have indicate<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&=
#8217;m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point, but my under=
standing
 is that <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All implementations have full su=
pport. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] ok, solved</span><=
/i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A7
 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;
 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=
=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-=
protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</sp=
an></a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">is now RFC 8205 (t=
hanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<sp=
an style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D">
</span>Can we have an update on this?<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> &nbsp;<=
/span>Can the introduction of
<span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span style=3D"color:black">be update=
d to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">SIDR gave up waiting on IDR&#821=
7;s work and took a reduced size of encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; The security pe=
ople
 were very sad about the reduction.&nbsp; How is this working in practice? =
WG sidrops can answer this question.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The real problem is there is fin=
ite message space.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] So too bad the dra=
ft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as message space is
 still limited)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: The message is still fini=
te (smile), &nbsp;but I hope 65,635 (smile) is probably enough for
 10 years.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">There are two ways to send lots =
of BGP routes and/or attributes &#8211; to &#8220;chunk&#8221; these into s=
mall
 message sizes or place these into a large message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some =
applications may always want to &#8220;chunk&#8221; into message sizes smal=
ler than 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently util=
izing large message size. &nbsp;As the potential number of NLRI and BGP att=
ributes
 grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasona=
ble way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The decision on how to send BGP =
messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp;
 &nbsp;Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP message it sends =
to the remote BGP peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this draft repr=
esent an agreement between two BGP peers. &nbsp;These are facts of basic BG=
P implementations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] Let&#8217;s take t=
he example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed of clients, some
 supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From an EM client, it rece=
ives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI with an Total
 Path Attribute Length bigger than&nbsp; 4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 large =
communitiess)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Can you explain me how it =
behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not supporting EM?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]:&nbsp; Gladly&#8230;
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A BGP route reflector (RR-=
A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.&nbsp; &nbsp;It agrees with
 each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP Extended messag=
es is accepted or not (based on capability announcement).
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Let us assume that BGP-C1 =
does not support extended messages, and &nbsp;BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do
 support extended messages. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If the policy in RR accept=
s a total path length of 1000 large communities with &nbsp;a single
 NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended communities to BGP-C2 and=
 BGP-C2.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The policy in the RR must =
specify whether:
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">a)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the &#8220;too long&#8221; attribute pa=
th length must be dropped, or
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">b)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the BGP attribute path can be truncated.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This is a policy issue wit=
hin the BGP peer and the network operation staff. &nbsp;Each operator
 may choose to write this policy differently. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
2] So we agree that a new behavior is REQUIRED. The draft does not mention
 this. The ability to change the behavior by policy does not remove the nee=
d for specifying the error handling.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Rather than specify the nu=
merous cases in the protocol specification, &nbsp;the previous discussions
 (private and public) asked us to trim this information out of the protocol=
 specification.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
2] Can&#8217;t be have a general rule which is good enough to handle the is=
sue?
 Previous discussions seemed based on the fact the error condition would ha=
ppen for future attribute. This is not the case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If you believe this is wor=
thy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS, LSVR, SPRING,
 Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft that can be revie=
wed by all these WGs.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
2] I believe that this is worthy in this specification.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8211; so I do not believe addi=
ng these facts to Randy&#8217;s draft is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the prev=
ious
 rounds of review this point was made. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Your question (and perhaps Jakob=
&#8217;s) is whether we have reached a time/place where the &#8220;chunking=
&#8221;
 approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis? &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does no=
t make this statement.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The point of this draft is to en=
able more efficient processing by increasing the message size
 for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choi=
ce to &#8220;chunk&#8221; or stream in large BGP message is an implementati=
on choice for a particular BGP application.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A73 =
says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A peer which does not a=
dvertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NO=
T be sent to it.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#=
8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[I believe randy accepted this c=
hange with the following text in version 4 [upcoming below]]/.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--------------<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Fine. Text in =A74 should probably b=
e aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it ha=
s received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it ha=
s sent and received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applicat=
ions generating information which might be encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 maximum message size into account.&#8221;<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:=
p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I
 don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno &#8211; people asked to pu=
t this text in as an operational warning. &nbsp;At this point, I&#8217;m go=
ing
 to say unless there is harm it should remain.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 which do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The
 issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP me=
ssage whose length is bigger than
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">4096, =
irrespective
 of the size of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please
 elaborate on what you mean by </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">an
 attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;<span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">An attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 is an attribute with length 6000 inside of a
 BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be included.&nbsp; &nbs=
p;No such attribute exists today.&nbsp; &nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a=
 &#8220;killer application&#8221; that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest=
 of the Internet does not have to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person
 defining that attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BG=
P messages.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] I don&#8217;t thin=
k that I agree with this. E.g. I don&#8217;t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092
 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I don&#8217;t=
 see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message support) , attrib=
utes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attr=
ibute since they wanted for more space.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: You make a good poi=
nt about the possibility of large communities not limiting the
 size.&nbsp; It is worthy of a change to both the large communities and a f=
ootnote in Randy&#8217;s specification. &nbsp;How about the addition of a s=
ingle sentence to point people in the right direction.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be de=
composed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">New/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which c=
annot be precisely decomposed if it
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large=
 community attribute with 1000 communities.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This text was added during an ea=
rlier discussion where the error cases of a large BGP attribute
 was given.&nbsp; The originator of the common could not provide the exact =
description, but we agreed to put this &nbsp;&#8220;warning label&#8221; in=
to the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is one of the cases where adding/removing te=
xt gets to be problematic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
 It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">What
 does this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? <span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;T</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">hat
 they don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span sty=
le=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This warning was text that other=
 participants asked to be added.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">It is a common sense warning.&nb=
sp; Extended messages are enabled on a peer by peer basis as all
 BGP capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into a Peer that does not support t=
he larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to the smalle=
r size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running immediately to the Extended messages as the def=
ault could cause problems.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] I think that the s=
entence could be elaborated. Indicating the problem, how the
 specification partially address it, and how the specification does not add=
ress it.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">In &#8220;Running immediat=
ely to Extended Message&#8221; I don&#8217;t think they that the issue is w=
ith
 &#8220;immediately&#8221;. Whenever you start the transition, your likely =
to run into problems.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: IMHO specification =
specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire and the appropriate
 error handling of the messages.&nbsp; &nbsp;If I have missed something in =
this case, please let me know.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
2] IMHO specifications need to handle error conditions that they create
 by design.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The specification does not=
 specify the necessary policies implementation should have in
 order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.&nbsp; &nbsp;The c=
lear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol specific=
ation. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Earlier discussion indicat=
ed that these is policy and mechanism specific.&nbsp; It is worthy
 of &#8220;use case or application notes&#8221; written for specific applic=
ations (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.&nbsp; Again, if =
it is significant enough concern for operators and implementers &#8211; it =
would be worthy to have combined use case document besides
 this point. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I&#8217;m happy to sponsor cross-area work o=
n this use case. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp; Future protocol specifications will need to describe how t=
o handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Why
 is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mec=
hanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, *
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">?&gt;</span>case? This should be described in=
 this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, as eve=
ry BGP
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">speaker is behavin=
g as specified.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I fail to see your logic.&nbsp; =
At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attributes) must fit within
 a 4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a BGP peer A which connects on link=
 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C with extende=
d messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">In the future, the first group t=
hat defines attribute or an NLRI that does not fit within a
 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to define how that works i=
n the specification.&nbsp; There is no need to refine the current set of sp=
ecifications.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">1) cf above, I believe tha=
t there are existing BGP Attributes which may not fit into a
 bytes 4096 BGP message<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">2)Even in the absence of s=
uch attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller attributes whose
 cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The problem is introduced =
by this specification, hence I believe this specification needs
 to specify how to handle this case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: &nbsp;IHMO the message tr=
ansmission and reception error handling issues are complete in the
 combination of RFC4271 and the extended message section 5. <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">What is not in this specificatio=
n is the policy issues about what happens if you combine 2 smaller
 attributes.&nbsp; For example, if you have a large community attribute of =
400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run into problems when combin=
ing with some longer AS path lengths.&nbsp; [4800</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-la=
nguage:EN-US">=E0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US">
 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this =
was policy and implementation specific details.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
2]
 It&#8217;s not implementation specific. This is an issue created by the sp=
ecification. Let&#8217;s discuss it in public.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I agree with you that it is extr=
emely useful to the operator community to have this type of
 policy details discussed to see if there is some desire to have common pol=
icies and error communities. &nbsp;&nbsp;It is the type of thing that GROW =
and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.&nbsp; &nbsp;BESS, =
LSVR, SPRING and others should consider what policy
 should be adapted for their applications. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Depending
 on the above specification, a section describing the operational consequen=
ces in a network (such as the
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Intern=
et, BGP
 Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences c=
ould be BGP NLRI
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">being =
removed
 in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Route Targ=
ets) been removed.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Both h=
aving significant
 consequences on the availability provided by the network.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">At this point, there are no attr=
ibutes or NLRI groupings that do not fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you
 define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it reviewed by IDR, B=
ESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] no, cf above.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: &nbsp;Thank you for=
 reminding me of the potential of large communities to blow up BGP.
 &nbsp;I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list! <o:p></o:p></span=
></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
2] IMHO, the problem is more with Extended Message than with large communit=
y.
 And we can work to consider and address this problem.<o:p></o:p></span></i=
></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Brun=
o<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD:
 The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except for th=
e <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
&gt;</span>OPEN message. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Probabl=
y<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:
 The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except for th=
e <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A78<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not c=
hange BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Before evaluating this, I think this do=
cument should first specified how a BGP <span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier=
 New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">messages bigger than 4096 octets is han=
dled when it needs to be sent to a <span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p=
></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">received not support=
ing this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Nits:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD&nbs=
p;:
 to reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW&nbs=
p;:
 to reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</s=
pan></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:id=
r-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extend=
ed Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp;
 You can access the draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The authors should indicate whether =
they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are encouraged to update
 the&nbsp; implementation data at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/w=
iki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://trac.ie=
tf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span></a>=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The draft provides a means for expan=
ding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages except
 OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short for all of the pot=
ential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The WG chairs intend to forward this=
 draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As you comment on the draft, please =
consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the additional
 space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying BGP-LS or SR, =
and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">_=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">C=
e message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confident=
ielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">p=
as etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu =
ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">a=
 l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages ele=
ctroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">O=
range decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou f=
alsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">T=
his message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged info=
rmation that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">t=
hey should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">I=
f you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delet=
e this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">A=
s emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been m=
odified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">T=
hank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">_______________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des i=
nformations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisatio=
n. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces join=
tes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete=
 altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">This message and its attachments may contain confidenti=
al or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">If you have received this email in error, please notify=
 the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for mess=
ages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">_______________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des i=
nformations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisatio=
n. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces join=
tes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete=
 altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">This message and its attachments may contain confidenti=
al or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">If you have received this email in error, please notify=
 the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for mess=
ages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489D6640OPEXCAUBM43corp_--


From nobody Fri Feb 15 03:46:44 2019
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Route Leak Prevention using Roles in Update and Open messages
        Authors         : Alexander Azimov
                          Eugene Bogomazov
                          Randy Bush
                          Keyur Patel
                          Kotikalapudi Sriram
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2019-02-15

Abstract:
   Route Leaks are the propagation of BGP prefixes which violate
   assumptions of BGP topology relationships; e.g. passing a route
   learned from one peer to another peer or to a transit provider,
   passing a route learned from one transit provider to another transit
   provider or to a peer.  Today, approaches to leak prevention rely on
   marking routes according to operator configuration options, with no
   check that the configuration corresponds to that of the BGP neighbor,
   or enforcement that the two BGP speakers agree on the relationship.
   This document enhances BGP Open to establish agreement of the (peer,
   customer, provider, RS, RS-client, internal) relationship of two
   neighboring BGP speakers to enforce appropriate configuration on both
   sides.  Propagated routes are then marked with an iOTC attribute
   according to agreed relationship allowing prevention of route leaks.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From nobody Fri Feb 15 05:05:22 2019
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Dear WG!

This version includes changes in text structure and clarifications.

But the most important part is the new roles: RS and RS-client. Previously
the intended role for members of IXes that are present at RS was
customer-provider. While it's enough from the mathematical point of view,
it proved to be ambiguous for engineers and raised continuous questions.
So, these new roles were added to address this problem.

There are already two implementations on top of FRR and BIRD. The authors
believe that the draft is ready for the WGLC.

=D0=BF=D1=82, 15 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2019 =D0=B3. =D0=B2 14:47, <inte=
rnet-drafts@ietf.org>:

>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : Route Leak Prevention using Roles in Update and
> Open messages
>         Authors         : Alexander Azimov
>                           Eugene Bogomazov
>                           Randy Bush
>                           Keyur Patel
>                           Kotikalapudi Sriram
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05.txt
>         Pages           : 10
>         Date            : 2019-02-15
>
> Abstract:
>    Route Leaks are the propagation of BGP prefixes which violate
>    assumptions of BGP topology relationships; e.g. passing a route
>    learned from one peer to another peer or to a transit provider,
>    passing a route learned from one transit provider to another transit
>    provider or to a peer.  Today, approaches to leak prevention rely on
>    marking routes according to operator configuration options, with no
>    check that the configuration corresponds to that of the BGP neighbor,
>    or enforcement that the two BGP speakers agree on the relationship.
>    This document enhances BGP Open to establish agreement of the (peer,
>    customer, provider, RS, RS-client, internal) relationship of two
>    neighboring BGP speakers to enforce appropriate configuration on both
>    sides.  Propagated routes are then marked with an iOTC attribute
>    according to agreed relationship allowing prevention of route leaks.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>


--=20
Best regards,
Alexander Azimov

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"><di=
v>Dear WG!</div><div><br></div>This version includes changes in text struct=
ure and clarifications.<br><br>But the most important part is the new roles=
: RS and RS-client. Previously the intended role for members of IXes that a=
re present at RS was customer-provider. While it&#39;s enough from the math=
ematical point of view, it proved to be ambiguous for engineers and raised =
continuous questions. So, these new roles were added to address this proble=
m.<br><br>There are already two implementations on top of FRR and BIRD. The=
 authors believe that the draft is ready for the WGLC.<br><br>=D0=BF=D1=82,=
 15 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2019 =D0=B3. =D0=B2 14:47, &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a=
>&gt;:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex"><br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Route Leak Prevention using Roles in Update and Open messages<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Alex=
ander Azimov<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Eugene Bogomazov<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Randy Bush<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Keyur Patel<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kotikalapudi Sriram<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-idr-bgp-open-policy-05.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 10<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2019-02-15<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Route Leaks are the propagation of BGP prefixes which violate<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0assumptions of BGP topology relationships; e.g. passing a rout=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0learned from one peer to another peer or to a transit provider=
,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0passing a route learned from one transit provider to another t=
ransit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provider or to a peer.=C2=A0 Today, approaches to leak prevent=
ion rely on<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0marking routes according to operator configuration options, wi=
th no<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0check that the configuration corresponds to that of the BGP ne=
ighbor,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0or enforcement that the two BGP speakers agree on the relation=
ship.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document enhances BGP Open to establish agreement of the =
(peer,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0customer, provider, RS, RS-client, internal) relationship of t=
wo<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0neighboring BGP speakers to enforce appropriate configuration =
on both<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0sides.=C2=A0 Propagated routes are then marked with an iOTC at=
tribute<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0according to agreed relationship allowing prevention of route =
leaks.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy/=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-open-policy-05</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-po=
licy-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-poli=
cy-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?ur=
l2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-open-policy-05</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail-m_9083150504429432148gmail-m_2444024927984011561gmail_sign=
ature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards,<div>Alexander Azimov</div></div></div=
>

--00000000000021e28a0581ee6db6--


From nobody Fri Feb 15 13:04:35 2019
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 16:03:25 -0500
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20190215210325.GA28950@pfrc.org>
References: <6FC8208F-DB08-4DE4-BFEB-518A806B11DB@tix.at> <20190125223507.GA10088@pfrc.org> <564B1465-427F-4D27-9153-ADC50EDA4F9E@tix.at>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Flowspec draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis last (known) issue that needs to be resolved
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Christoph,

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 09:05:21PM +0100, Christoph Loibl wrote:
> After reviewing the feedback that I received on my last mail regarding the draft rfc5575bis (on the list as well as from the authors and Jie). I propose the following changes to the draft regarding  "Section 7.6. Rules on Traffic Action Interference”:
> 
> *) Replace Section 7.6. Rules on Traffic Action Interference with the following:
> 
> <TEXT>
> 
> 7.6. Considerations on Traffic Action Interference
> 
> Since traffic actions are represented as BGP extended community values,
> traffic actions may interfere with each other (ie. there may be more then

than

> one conflicting traffic-rate action associated with a single 
> flow-filter). Traffic action interference has no impact on BGP propagation
> of flow filters (all communities should be propagated according to BGP policies). 
> 
> If a flow filter associated with interfering flow actions is selected for
> packet forwarding, it is a implementation decision which of the interfering 
> traffic action is selected. Implementors of this specification SHOULD 
> document the behaviour of their implementation in such cases.
> 
> Operators are encouraged to make use of the BGP policy framework 
> supported by their implementation in order to achieve a predictable behaviour 
> for their application (ie. match - replace - delete communities on 
> administrative boundaries).
> 
> </TEXT>
> 
> I will upload the changes soon if I receive no objections. However, I am happy to receive feedback on this.

I'm happy with this text.  Thanks!

-- Jeff


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using Border Gateway Protocol Link-State
        Authors         : Jeff Tantsura
                          Uma Chunduri
                          Greg Mirsky
                          Siva Sivabalan
                          Nikos Triantafillis
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-03.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2019-02-19

Abstract:
   This document defines a way for a Border Gateway Protocol Link-State
   (BGP-LS) speaker to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID
   Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity.

   Such advertisements allow logically centralized entities (e.g.,
   centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack
   can be supported in a given network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-03

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using Border Gateway Protocol Link-State
        Authors         : Jeff Tantsura
                          Uma Chunduri
                          Greg Mirsky
                          Siva Sivabalan
                          Nikos Triantafillis
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-04.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2019-02-19

Abstract:
   This document defines a way for a Border Gateway Protocol Link-State
   (BGP-LS) speaker to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID
   Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity.

   Such advertisements allow logically centralized entities (e.g.,
   centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack
   can be supported in a given network.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Bruno:=20

=20

Thank you for your specific suggestion.   It helps us work through the
specifics of the changes to the BGP specification.  I do not see the  =
text
in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt changing section 6.3 of
RFC4271.   I=92ve included my understanding of how
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt changes RFC4271 in the =
detailed
comments below.     =20

=20

Your suggestion to improve section 6.3 of RFC4271 to handle the case =
where a
BGP speaker peers with two different messages sizes (4096, 65,535) has
operational merit.   Would you mind this modification to you text:

=20

=93A BGP speaker which peers with some peers with extended message =
capability
and other peers without extended message capability, MUST do both of the
following things:=20

-          The BGP speaker MUST support [RFC7606], and=20

-          The BGP speaker MUST handle a BGP Route (attribute, NLRI =
pair)
that is too large to be sent to a BGP peer without the extended message
capability using the =93treat-as-withdraw=94 approach defined in =
[RFC7606].

=20

The BGP speaker, MAY remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to =
use
the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606]. =93 =20

=20

This would be added to section 5 of =
draft-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt.
See my suggested RFC4271 text changes for a logical placement within
RFC4271. =20

=20

If this change to your text is agreeable, then section 8 would need to
change to:

=20

/New text for the end of section 8/=20

=20

This draft requires support for RFC7606 update error handling and as =
such
inherits the security considerations of RFC7606. This draft also =
recommends
BGP peers avoid such issues by using Authenticated Encryption with
additional Data (AEAD) ciphers [RFC5116] and thus to discard messages =
that
do not verify.  It also recommends that IBGP peers all support extended
message capability and [RFC7606]. =20

=20

During the transition to deploy extended messages and RFC7606 on an IBGP
cloud, operators should monitor any routes dropped as =93treat as =
withdraw=94. =20

=20

One example of a RFC7606 attack profile using the extended message is if =
the
remote attacker is able that to craft a large BGP route to send along a =
BGP
path in which at least one peer does not support extended messages. This
peer which does not support extended message capability may encounter a
drain on internal resources (processing, message sizes) if it =
continually
reformats the large messages.  If the =93treat as withdraw=94 feature of =
RFC7606
is utilized, some routes may be consistently withdrawn at this point =
causing
inconsistent routing. =20

=20

BGP routes are filtered by policies set by the operators.  =
Implementations
may provide policies to filter routes that would cause the =93treat as
withdraw=94 from being pass by an extended message speaker. =20

/=20

=20

Please let me know I understand your suggested changes.=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:25 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Susan,

=20

We now agree that the problem can happen with existing BGP attributes. =
Good.
So the argument to postpone the error handling discussion for future
specification defining large attributes does not hold anymore.

=20

Coming back to the draft,

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

1)      As a minor comment, the error is not limited to an (one single)
attribute (type) which size is bigger than 4096 octets. The error =
happens
when the Total Path Attribute Length (for all attributes) is bigger than
4096 octets.

=20

[Sue]: My understanding of the Extended message draft is that it is not
dealing with section 6.3 of RFC4271.  Here=92s my understanding of the=20

=20

RFC4271 states:

=20

=93All Errors detected while processing the Message header must be =
indicated
by sending a NOTIFICATION message with the Message Header error.  The =
Error
subcode elaborates on the specific nature of the error. =93

=20

One of the errors is a message header length:  =93If the length field of =
the
message header is less than 19 or greater than 4096.=94  If any of these =
super
large attributes causes the message length to be greater than 4096, then
with RFC4271, the error code sent would be =93Bad Message length.=94

=20

If the message length is switch from 4096 to 65535 octets, the RFC4271 =
error
handling would allow the message length to be 65,535.=20

=20

=20

After the section 6.1 text RFC4271 is changed to the following:=20

=20

    If at least one of the following is true:=20

-          If the Length field of the message header is less than 19 or
greater than 4096=20

for OPEN message,

-          If BGP Extended Messages capability is not set, the length =
field
of any other BGP message other than an OPEN message is less than 19 or
greater than 4095,=20

=20

-          If the BGP Extended Message capability is set for a BGP peer, =
if
the length field is less than 19 or greater than 65,535.  (See the error
handling below for the setting of this function.)

=20

-          If the length field of an UPDATE message is less than the =
minimum
field of the UPDATE message, or=20

=20

-          If the length field of a KEEPALIVE message is not equal to =
19, or


=20

-          If the length field of a NOTIFICATION message is less than =
the
minimum length of the NOTIFICATION message.=20

=20

Then the Error Subcode MUST Be set to Bad Message Length.  The Data =
field
MUST contain the erroneous length field.=20

[

     6.9) Extended Message Capability=20

=20

   To advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP

   speaker uses BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492> ].  By

   advertising the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP

   speaker conveys that it is able to send, receive, and properly handle

   BGP Extended Messages.

=20

   A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.

=20

   The BGP Extended Message Capability is a new BGP Capability [RFC5492
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492> ]

   defined with Capability code 6 and Capability length 0.

  =20

    6.9.1) Operation:=20

=20

      A BGP speaker that is capable of sending and receiving BGP =
Extended

   Messages SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the

   peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492> ].  A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and

   received the Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

   The Extended Message Capability applies to all messages except for

   the OPEN message.  This exception is made to reduce complexity of

   providing backward compatibility

=20

     An implementation that advertises support for BGP Extended Messages

   MUST be capable of receiving a message with a length up to and

   including 65535 octets.

=20

   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

   maximum message size into account.

=20

   If a BGP update with a payload longer than 4096 octets is received by

   a BGP listener who has neither advertised nor agreed to accept BGP

   Extended Messages, the listener MUST treat this as a malformed update

   message, and MUST raise an UPDATE Message Error (see section 6.3).=20

=20

=20

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

=20

   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are

   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.

=20

   6.9.2 Error Handling for the Extended messages

=20

     A BGP speaker that has the ability to use Extended Messages but has

   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due

   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an Extended Message.  A speaker

   MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept Extended Messages,

   even from a peer to which it has not advertised the capability, in

   the interest of preserving the BGP session if at all possible.

=20

   A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended Messages

   capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.  Such

   a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of section 6.1=20

   regarding message length. =20

=20

   The inconsistency between the local and remote BGP speakers MUST be

   flagged to the network operator through standard operational

   interfaces.  The information should include the NLRI and as much

   relevant information as reasonably possible.

=20

[End of text change from draft ]

=20

=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=20

2)      As a major comment, I am asking for the specification to specify =
how
it handles that failure, which is not the result of a possible bug, but
created by design by the solution. It will happen.

 =20

Your proposition to =93raise an alarm=94 is required but not sufficient =
as we
still need to specify what we do with this =93big=94 route. One option =
could be
=93treat as withdraw=94, another option suggested by Robert is to =
propagate the
NLRI with subset of attributes plus an indication of the failure (=93a =
short
attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN=94). There may be others options.

=20

[Sue]: Robert=92s option is a fine idea, but the WG did not accept this =
option
in the past so I cannot force this option into the specification.  I =
hope
that Robert will propose this option again. =20

=20

To trigger the discussion on the resolution, I would propose the =
following
text =93One BGP Route too large to be propagated to a BGP receiver not
supporting BGP Extended Message MUST be handled, over this BGP session,
using the Treat-as-withdraw approach as defined in [RFC7606]. The BGP
speaker MAY, beforehand, remove some BGP attributes which are eligible =
to
the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606].=94

=20

[Sue]:  This text deals with section 6.3 in RFC4271, and to my =
understanding
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messges-28.txt only deals with section 6.1 =
of
RFC4271.    In addition, there is no concept of propagation RFC7606 or
RFC4271.  Each BGP peer receives BGP messages and updates, it then
propagates or sends routes and attributes to its peers.    Could I =
restate
your suggestion as:=20

=20

6.9.2 Error handling=20

(added at the end of the current text =20

=20

A BGP speaker which peers with some peers with extended message =
capability
and other peers without extended message capability, MUST handle a BGP =
Route
(attribute, NLRI pair) that is too large to be sent to a BGP peer =
without
the extended message capability using the =93treat-as-withdraw=94 =
approach
defined in [RFC7606].  The BGP speaker, MAY remove some BGP attributes =
which
are eligible to use the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606]. =20

=20

=20

3)      Once error handling is specified, the draft will be able to =
discuss=20

a.       the operational considerations for this issue (e.g. The one =
from
RFC7606 could be referenced as-is, or used as inspiration)

b.      the security considerations (as a remote attacker would be able =
to
craft a large BGP route that will be withdrawn (assuming
=93treat-as-withdraw=94) somewhere in some AS, possibly creating routing
inconsistencies within the AS)

c.       the proposed mitigations (e.g., an operator should enable =
support
for Extended messages on all IBGP sessions first, before enabling it on =
an
EBGP session; If not possible, an operator could define a policy to =
filter
BGP attributes from EBGP sessions, typically based on their type and
size;=85.)

=20

more inline [Bruno2]

=20

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:20 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'; 'John Scudder'; 'Alvaro =
Retana'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:=20

=20

Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have
translation issues between our =93English=94 language again so I have =
tried to
be precise in the detailed comments.  I=92ve summarized my comments as =
well to
help us take the next step.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

Summary

----

Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size!
This is a case where a code path could get caught with program error.  =
The
error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended
specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is longer than =
the
message.   Please let me know if I=92ve missed something.  =20

=20

[Bruno2] I don=92t think that section 6.1 of RFC4271 covers this. The =
problem
is not a Message Header error handling as a proper BGP implementation =
would
not sent the message. (not to mention with inconsistent size).

[Sue2]: OK, but section 6.1 is the only places that this draft changes.=20

=20

As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to =
add
notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly combine
RFC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The implementers and
operations people commented earlier that this should not be in the =
protocol
specification other than as a brief footnote. =20

=20

[Bruno2]An error handling must exist even in the absence of SP policies. =
The
argument related to previous discussions does not hold IMHO as I=92ve =
raised a
new point (this happens with existing BGP attributes, not in a =
hypothetical
new attribute)

[Sue2]:  Thank you for sending your text.  I can your comments are on =
the
UPDATE handling processes based on RFC7606.  We were discussing 2 =
different
places in RFC4271.=20

=20

I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular =
use
cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), SPRING,
BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), =
and
SPRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if =
there
is need for standardization for a minimal set of policy for message =
sizes
for specific use cases.   I will be glad to send request to these WG or =
to
host something in IDR if there is policy that can be used across all use
cases.=20

=20

[Bruno2] I don=92t think that Error handling is to be considered as =
optional
or for future consideration.

[Sue2]:  Based on your proposed text, I can see the value of considering
this text at this time. =20

=20

To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about
this change to paragraph in section 4:=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if
it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

[PS =96 in American English =93Can not=94 is normally concatenated =
=93cannot=94.]=20

  =20

[Bruno2] Thanks for the proposition, but this does not address my =
concern.

[Sue]: Thank you for your text =96 I understand why now.=20

=20

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Sue,

=20

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:=20

=20

I=92d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on =
comments
(public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this =
draft
in our last WG LCs..  =20

=20

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other
questions.   This gets into a catch-22=85 problem =96 where you put =
changes in
for one person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic =
circles
this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go =
in,
reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I=92m =
I am
going to answer most of your questions where this is the case. =20

=20

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=92ve indicated.  =
I=92m
hoping he=92ll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant
implementations.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

=20

<shepherd hat on>=20

This draft=92s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application
by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether =93chunking=94 BGP to 4096 =
byte
messages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is =
more
effective for a particular application is something only an implementer =
of a
particular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives =
freedom
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message =
size.
The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.=20

=20

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which
=93chunks=94 BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial =
rework of
the implementation. =20

=20

=20

(snip)=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange..com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

>Please find below some comments.

>As of today, I don=92t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed
to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current
level of implementation. =20

=20


>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eimple=
men
tations> >implementations says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the
above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the capability
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..=20

>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension =
for
a niche use case. So I don=92t see the >arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=92s
usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should
have indicate

>full support.   I=92m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last =
point,
but my understanding is that=20

All implementations have full support. =20

=20

[Bruno] ok, solved

>----

>=A7 1

>=93 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

>   newer capabilities (e.g., [
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D
.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =93

>=20

>
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-
1

=20

=20

>[
<https://tools.ietf..org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref=
-I-
D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205
(thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP =
Sec
does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. Can we have an =
update
on this?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages =
>be
updated to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

=20

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=92s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.
The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How is this =
working
in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question. =20

=20

The real problem is there is finite message space. =20

[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message
space is still limited)

=20

[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) =
is
probably enough for 10 years.  =20

=20

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =96 to =
=93chunk=94
these into small message sizes or place these into a large message.    =
Some
applications may always want to =93chunk=94 into message sizes smaller =
than
4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large =
message
size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new
applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way =
to
exchange amounts of BGP data.   =20

=20

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer
decision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the =
BGP
message it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this
draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of
basic BGP implementations

[Bruno] Let=92s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed =
of
clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.

>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI
with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having =
1000
large communitiess)

Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not
supporting EM?

[Sue]:  Gladly=85=20

A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.   =
It
agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP
Extended messages is accepted or not (based on capability announcement). =


Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  =
BGP-C2
and BGP-C3 do support extended messages.=20

=20

If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities
with  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended =
communities
to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.

The policy in the RR must specify whether:=20

a)      the =93too long=94 attribute path length must be dropped, or=20

b)      the BGP attribute path can be truncated.=20

=20

This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff.
Each operator may choose to write this policy differently.=20

[Bruno2] So we agree that a new behavior is REQUIRED. The draft does not
mention this. The ability to change the behavior by policy does not =
remove
the need for specifying the error handling.

=20

Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,  =
the
previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this =
information
out of the protocol specification.=20

[Bruno2] Can=92t be have a general rule which is good enough to handle =
the
issue? Previous discussions seemed based on the fact the error condition
would happen for future attribute. This is not the case.

=20

If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS,
LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft =
that
can be reviewed by all these WGs.=20

[Bruno2] I believe that this is worthy in this specification.=20

=20

=20

=96 so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy=92s draft is useful. =
 In
fact, in the previous rounds of review this point was made.=20

=20

Your question (and perhaps Jakob=92s) is whether we have reached a =
time/place
where the =93chunking=94 approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis?   =
This
draft does not make this statement. =20

=20

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing
the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .   =
The
choice to =93chunk=94 or stream in large BGP message is an =
implementation choice
for a particular BGP application. =20

=20

----

=A74

=A73 says =93A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=94

[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version =
4
[upcoming below]]/.=20

=20

--------------

=20

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received
the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

=20

----

>=93   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated

>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

>   maximum message size into account.=94

>=20

>I don=92t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I
would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

Bruno =96 people asked to put this text in as an operational warning.  =
At this
point, I=92m going to say unless there is harm it should remain. =20

[Bruno] OK.

=20

----

>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the

>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

>=20

>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP
message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size of =
each
attribute.

>Please elaborate on what you mean by=20

>=20

>=93an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets=94

=20

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length
6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be
included.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers =
create a
=93killer application=94 that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of =
the
Internet does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that
attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.=20

=20

=20

[Bruno] I don=92t think that I agree with this. E.g. I don=92t see where =
RFCs
1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. =
Hence I
don=92t see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message =
support) ,
attributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the =
BGPSec
attribute since they wanted for more space.

[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities =
not
limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large =
communities
and a footnote in Randy=92s specification.  How about the addition of a =
single
sentence to point people in the right direction.=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if
it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

 =20

=20

=20

This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases =
of a
large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not
provide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  =93warning =
label=94
into the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text =
gets
to be problematic.=20

=20

>---

>=93   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are

>   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.=94

>=20

>What does this mean exactly? That they don=92t use this extension?=20

>That they don=92t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.=20

=20

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer =
by
peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that =
does
not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be =
reformatted
to the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as =
the
default could cause problems.=20

=20

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the
specification does not address it.

In =93Running immediately to Extended Message=94 I don=92t think they =
that the
issue is with =93immediately=94. Whenever you start the transition, your =
likely
to run into problems.

=20

=20

[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire =
and
the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed =
something
in this case, please let me know.=20

[Bruno2] IMHO specifications need to handle error conditions that they
create by design.

=20

The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation
should have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.
The clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol
specification. =20

=20

Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.
It is worthy of =93use case or application notes=94 written for specific
applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.  Again, =
if
it is significant enough concern for operators and implementers =96 it =
would
be worthy to have combined use case document besides this point.    =
I=92m
happy to sponsor cross-area work on this use case.=20

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages..

=20

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP
mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the =
size
of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
?>case?
This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a =
case
of error handling, as every BGP=20

> speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and
attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A =
which
connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP =
peer
C with extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.  =


=20

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does
not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define
how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the =
current
set of specifications.  =20

[Bruno]

1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may =
not
fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message

2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller
attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.

=20

The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this
specification needs to specify how to handle this case.

=20

[Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling =
issues
are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended message =
section
5.=20

=20

What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if
you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a large
community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run
into problems when combining with some longer AS path lengths.  [4800=E0 =
5096
bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this was
policy and implementation specific details.

[Bruno2] It=92s not implementation specific. This is an issue created by =
the
specification. Let=92s discuss it in public. =20

=20

I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community =
to
have this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some =
desire to
have common policies and error communities.   It is the type of thing =
that
GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.   BESS, =
LSVR,
SPRING and others should consider what policy should be adapted for =
their
applications.=20

=20

>----

>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational
consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled =
ServiceS/VPN
networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI =
>being
removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as
Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant consequences on =
the
availability provided by the network.

=20

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit
within 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to =
have
it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).=20

[Bruno] no, cf above.

[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities =
to
blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list!=20

[Bruno2] IMHO, the problem is more with Extended Message than with large
community. And we can work to consider and address this problem.

--Bruno

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

=20

---

>=A74

>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages =
except
for the >OPEN message.=20

>Probably

>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types =
except
for the >OPEN message (type 1).=20

>----

>=A78

>=93This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues =BB
>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified =
how a
BGP=20
>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to =
a=20
>received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

>OLD : to reduce compexity

>NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>
https://datatracker.ietf..org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are
encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

=20
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tat
ions>
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ati
ons

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for
all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short =
for
all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS =
features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those
deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
___
_____________________________________________
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for your specific suggestion.=A0 =A0It helps us work =
through the specifics of the changes to the BGP specification. =A0I do =
not see the =A0text in draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt =
changing section 6.3 of RFC4271.=A0=A0 I&#8217;ve included my =
understanding of how draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt changes =
RFC4271 in the detailed comments below.=A0 =
=A0=A0=A0=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your suggestion to improve section 6.3 of RFC4271 to handle the case =
where a BGP speaker peers with two different messages sizes (4096, =
65,535) has operational merit. =A0=A0Would you mind this modification to =
you text:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8220;A BGP speaker which peers with some peers with extended =
message capability and other peers without extended message capability, =
MUST do both of the following things: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:24.75pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The BGP speaker MUST support [RFC7606], and <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:24.75pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The BGP speaker MUST handle a BGP Route (attribute, NLRI pair) that =
is too large to be sent to a BGP peer without the extended message =
capability using the &#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221; approach defined in =
[RFC7606].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:24.75pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The BGP speaker, MAY remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to =
use the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606]. &#8220; =
=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This would be added to section 5 of =
draft-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt.=A0=A0 See my suggested RFC4271 =
text changes for a logical placement within RFC4271.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If this change to your text is agreeable, then section 8 would need =
to change to:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>/New text for the end of section 8/ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>This =
draft requires support for RFC7606 update error handling and as such =
inherits the security considerations of RFC7606. This draft also =
recommends BGP peers avoid such issues by using Authenticated Encryption =
with additional Data (AEAD) ciphers [RFC5116] and thus to discard =
messages that do not verify.=A0 It also recommends that IBGP peers all =
support extended message capability and [RFC7606].=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>During the transition to deploy extended messages =
and RFC7606 on an IBGP cloud, operators should monitor any routes =
dropped as &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221;.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>One example of a RFC7606 attack profile using the =
extended message is if the remote attacker is able that to craft a large =
BGP route to send along a BGP path in which at least one peer does not =
support extended messages. This peer which does not support extended =
message capability may encounter a drain on internal resources =
(processing, message sizes) if it continually reformats the large =
messages. =A0If the &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221; feature of RFC7606 =
is utilized, some routes may be consistently withdrawn at this point =
causing inconsistent routing. =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>BGP routes are filtered by policies set by the =
operators. =A0Implementations may provide policies to filter routes that =
would cause the &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221; from being pass by an =
extended message speaker.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>/ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>Please let me know I understand your suggested =
changes. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 15, 2019 =
5:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; Robert =
Raszuk<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>We now agree that the problem can happen with existing BGP =
attributes. Good. So the argument to postpone the error handling =
discussion for future specification defining large attributes does not =
hold anymore.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Coming back to the draft,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As a minor comment, the error is not limited to an (one single) =
attribute (type) which size is bigger than 4096 octets. The error =
happens when the Total Path Attribute Length (for all attributes) is =
bigger than 4096 octets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: My understanding of the Extended message draft is that it is =
not dealing with section 6.3 of RFC4271. =A0Here&#8217;s my =
understanding of the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>RFC4271 states:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8220;All Errors detected while processing the Message header must =
be indicated by sending a NOTIFICATION message with the Message Header =
error.=A0 The Error subcode elaborates on the specific nature of the =
error. &#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>One of the errors is a message header length:=A0 &#8220;If the length =
field of the message header is less than 19 or greater than =
4096.&#8221;=A0 If any of these super large attributes causes the =
message length to be greater than 4096, then with RFC4271, the error =
code sent would be &#8220;Bad Message =
length.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the message length is switch from 4096 to 65535 octets, the =
RFC4271 error handling would allow the message length to be 65,535. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>After the section 6.1 text RFC4271 is changed to the following: =
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0=A0 If at least one of the following is true: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the Length field of the message header is less than 19 or greater =
than 4096 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>for OPEN message,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If BGP Extended Messages capability is not set, the length field of =
any other BGP message other than an OPEN message is less than 19 or =
greater than 4095, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the BGP Extended Message capability is set for a BGP peer, if the =
length field is less than 19 or greater than 65,535.=A0 (See the error =
handling below for the setting of this =
function.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the length field of an UPDATE message is less than the minimum =
field of the UPDATE message, or <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the length field of a KEEPALIVE message is not equal to 19, or =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the length field of a NOTIFICATION message is less than the =
minimum length of the NOTIFICATION message. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:29.25pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Then the Error Subcode MUST Be set to Bad Message Length.=A0 The Data =
field MUST contain the erroneous length field. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0 =A0=A06.9) Extended Message Capability =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
To advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
speaker uses BGP Capabilities Advertisement [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492" title=3D"&quot;Capabilities =
Advertisement with BGP-4&quot;">RFC5492</a>].=A0 =
By<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
advertising the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
speaker conveys that it is able to send, receive, and properly =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
BGP Extended Messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
The BGP Extended Message Capability is a new BGP Capability [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492" title=3D"&quot;Capabilities =
Advertisement with BGP-4&quot;">RFC5492</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0 defined with Capability code 6 and Capability =
length 0.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0=A0=A06.9.1) Operation: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0 </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0A BGP speaker that is capable of sending and =
receiving BGP Extended<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
Messages SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492" title=3D"&quot;Capabilities =
Advertisement with BGP-4&quot;">RFC5492</a>].=A0 A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
received the Extended Message Capability from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
The Extended Message Capability applies to all messages except =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
the OPEN message.=A0 This exception is made to reduce complexity =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
providing backward compatibility<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0=A0 </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0An implementation that advertises support for BGP =
Extended Messages<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
MUST be capable of receiving a message with a length up to =
and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
including 65535 octets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
maximum message size into account.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
If a BGP update with a payload longer than 4096 octets is received =
by<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
a BGP listener who has neither advertised nor agreed to accept =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
Extended Messages, the listener MUST treat this as a malformed =
update<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
message, and MUST raise an UPDATE Message Error (see section 6.3). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
which do not have the Extended Message capability.=A0 =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0 6.9.2 Error Handling for the Extended =
messages<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0=A0=A0 </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0A BGP speaker that has the ability to use Extended =
Messages but has<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably =
due<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an Extended Message.=A0 A =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept Extended =
Messages,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
even from a peer to which it has not advertised the capability, =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
the interest of preserving the BGP session if at all =
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended =
Messages<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.=A0 =
Such<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of section 6.1 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>=A0=A0=A0regarding message length.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
The inconsistency between the local and remote BGP speakers MUST =
be<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
flagged to the network operator through standard =
operational<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
interfaces.=A0 The information should include the NLRI and as =
much<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>=A0=A0 =
relevant information as reasonably possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[End of text change from draft ]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As a major comment, I am asking for the specification to specify how =
it handles that failure, which is not the result of a possible bug, but =
created by design by the solution. It will =
happen.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your proposition to &#8220;raise an alarm&#8221; is required but not =
sufficient as we still need to specify what we do with this =
&#8220;big&#8221; route. One option could be &#8220;treat as =
withdraw&#8221;, another option suggested by Robert is to propagate the =
NLRI with subset of attributes plus an indication of the failure =
(&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>a short attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8221;). There may be others options.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: Robert&#8217;s option is a fine idea, but the WG did not =
accept this option in the past so I cannot force this option into the =
specification.=A0 I hope that Robert will propose this option again.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To trigger the discussion on the resolution, I would propose the =
following text &#8220;One BGP Route too large to be propagated to a BGP =
receiver not supporting BGP Extended Message MUST be handled, over this =
BGP session, using the Treat-as-withdraw approach as defined in =
[RFC7606]. The BGP speaker MAY, beforehand, remove some BGP attributes =
which are eligible to the Attribute discard approach =
[RFC7606].&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]:=A0 This text deals with section 6.3 in RFC4271, and to my =
understanding draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messges-28.txt only deals with =
section 6.1 of RFC4271.=A0 =A0=A0In addition, there is no concept of =
propagation RFC7606 or RFC4271.=A0 Each BGP peer receives BGP messages =
and updates, it then propagates or sends routes and attributes to its =
peers.=A0 =A0=A0Could I restate your suggestion as: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>6.9.2 Error handling <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(added at the end of the current text =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A BGP speaker which peers with some peers with extended message =
capability and other peers without extended message capability, MUST =
handle a BGP Route (attribute, NLRI pair) that is too large to be sent =
to a BGP peer without the extended message capability using the =
&#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221; approach defined in [RFC7606]. =A0The =
BGP speaker, MAY remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to use =
the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606].=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Once error handling is specified, the draft will be able to discuss =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level2 =
lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the operational considerations for this issue (e.g. The one from =
RFC7606 could be referenced as-is, or used as =
inspiration)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level2 =
lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the security considerations (as a remote attacker would be able to =
craft a large BGP route that will be withdrawn (assuming =
&#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221;) somewhere in some AS, possibly creating =
routing inconsistencies within the AS)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level2 =
lfo6'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the proposed mitigations (e.g., an operator should enable support for =
Extended messages on all IBGP sessions first, before enabling it on an =
EBGP session; If not possible, an operator could define a policy to =
filter BGP attributes from EBGP sessions, typically based on their type =
and size;&#8230;.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>more inline [Bruno2]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February =
14, 2019 6:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'; 'John Scudder'; 'Alvaro =
Retana'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.&nbsp;&nbsp; I =
think we have translation issues between our &#8220;English&#8221; =
language again so I have tried to be precise in the detailed comments. =
&nbsp;I&#8217;ve summarized my comments as well to help us take the next =
step. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Summary<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size! &nbsp;This is a case where a code path could get caught with =
program error.&nbsp; The error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per =
section 5 in the extended specification) IMHO handles the case where the =
attribute is longer than the message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Please let me know if =
I&#8217;ve missed something. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] I don&#8217;t think that section 6.1 of RFC4271 covers this. =
The problem is not a Message Header error handling as a proper BGP =
implementation would not sent the message. (not to mention with =
inconsistent size)</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue2]: OK, but section 6.1 is the only places that this draft =
changes. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As I understand it, &nbsp;you are asking this specification to be =
expanded to add notes on policies on what implementation should do to =
correctly combine RFC4271 length sizes with extended length =
sizes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The implementers and operations people commented =
earlier that this should not be in the protocol specification other than =
as a brief footnote.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2]An error handling must exist even in the absence of SP =
policies. The argument related to previous discussions does not hold =
IMHO as I&#8217;ve raised a new point (this happens with existing BGP =
attributes, not in a hypothetical new attribute)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue2]:=A0 Thank you for sending your text.=A0 I can your comments =
are on the UPDATE handling processes based on RFC7606.=A0 We were =
discussing 2 different places in RFC4271. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for =
particular use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized =
controller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments =
yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.&nbsp; &nbsp;I think the chairs =
of the WGs utilizing should consider if there is need for =
standardization for a minimal set of policy for message sizes for =
specific use cases.&nbsp;&nbsp; I will be glad to send request to these =
WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy that can be used =
across all use cases. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] I don&#8217;t think that Error handling is to be considered =
as optional or for future consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue2]:=A0 Based on your proposed text, I can see the value of =
considering this text at this time. =A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about this change to paragraph in section 4: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which =
cannot be precisely decomposed if it <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large =
community attribute with 1000 communities. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[PS =
&#8211; in American English &#8220;Can not&#8221; is normally =
concatenated &#8220;cannot&#8221;.] <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] Thanks for the proposition, but this does not address my =
concern.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: Thank you for your text &#8211; I understand why now. =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks for the reply. Please see inline =
[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, =
2019 8:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG =
Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I&#8217;d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based =
on comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd =
received on this draft in our last WG LCs.. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other =
questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets into a catch-22&#8230; problem &#8211; =
where you put changes in for one person/take out the changes out for =
another.&nbsp; In academic circles this is called the reviewer #2 =
problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go =
out) during publication. &nbsp;Therefore, I&#8217;m I am going to answer =
most of your questions where this is the case.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I&#8217;ve =
indicated.&nbsp; I&#8217;m hoping he&#8217;ll just post that =
version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&lt;shepherd hat on&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This draft&#8217;s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application by allow a huge BGP message size. &nbsp;Whether =
&#8220;chunking&#8221; BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large =
amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effective for a =
particular application is something only an implementer of a particular =
BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide. &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft simply gives =
freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small =
message size.&nbsp; The market place will choose whether this technology =
is used or not.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation =
which &#8220;chunks&#8221; BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve =
substantial rework of the implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><i><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>(snip) <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>bruno.decraene@orange..com<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 =
13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
idr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened =
Message Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><table class=3DTableauNormal =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D636 =
style=3D'width:476.9pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%=
3eimplementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-&gt;implementations</a> says : </span>5a =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Does not send Extended Message capability =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt =
.75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>implementations sends the capability =
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here this =
document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the =
IDR&#8217;s usual two interoperable =
implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report =
should have indicate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&#8217;m waiting for Olivier to update =
based on the last point, but my understanding is that =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>All implementations have full support. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] ok, solved</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A7 =
1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220; As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>&gt; =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mes=
sages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf..org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages=
-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol =
Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>Can we have an update on this?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> &nbsp;</span>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'color:black'>be =
updated to introduce on the real =
reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>SIDR gave up waiting on IDR&#8217;s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; The security people were very sad about the =
reduction.&nbsp; How is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer =
this question.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The real problem is there is finite message space.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message space is still limited)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile), &nbsp;but I hope 65,635 =
(smile) is probably enough for 10 years.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =
&#8211; to &#8220;chunk&#8221; these into small message sizes or place =
these into a large message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some applications may =
always want to &#8220;chunk&#8221; into message sizes smaller than =
4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently utilizing =
large message size. &nbsp;As the potential number of NLRI and BGP =
attributes grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a =
more reasonable way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a =
peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp; &nbsp;Each BGP peer is in =
charge of reformatting the BGP message it sends to the remote BGP =
peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this draft represent an =
agreement between two BGP peers. &nbsp;These are facts of basic BGP =
implementations<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] Let&#8217;s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having =
a mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) =
NLRI with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than&nbsp; 4090 byte =
(e.g. having 1000 large communitiess)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer =
not supporting EM?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]:&nbsp; Gladly&#8230; <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP =
clients.&nbsp; &nbsp;It agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, =
BGPC3) whether the BGP Extended messages is accepted or not (based on =
capability announcement). <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and =
&nbsp;BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support extended messages. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities with &nbsp;a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via =
extended communities to BGP-C2 and =
BGP-C2.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The policy in the RR must specify whether: =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the &#8220;too long&#8221; attribute path length must be dropped, or =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><span =
dir=3DLTR></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the BGP attribute path can be truncated. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff. &nbsp;Each operator may choose to write this policy differently. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] So we agree that a new behavior is REQUIRED. The draft does =
not mention this. The ability to change the behavior by policy does not =
remove the need for specifying the error =
handling.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification, =
&nbsp;the previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim =
this information out of the protocol specification. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] Can&#8217;t be have a general rule which is good enough to =
handle the issue? Previous discussions seemed based on the fact the =
error condition would happen for future attribute. This is not the =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of =
BESS, LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a =
draft that can be reviewed by all these WGs. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] I believe that this is worthy in this specification. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&#8211; so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy&#8217;s draft =
is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the previous rounds of review this point =
was made. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your question (and perhaps Jakob&#8217;s) is whether we have reached =
a time/place where the &#8220;chunking&#8221; approach will fail on a =
peer-by-peer basis? &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does not make this =
statement.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. =
BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choice to &#8220;chunk&#8221; or stream in =
large BGP message is an implementation choice for a particular BGP =
application.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A74<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=A73 says =
&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send =
BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&#8221;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in =
version 4 [upcoming below]]/. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
.e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
LD: </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A =
BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.&#8221;<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bruno &#8211; people asked to put this text in as an operational =
warning. &nbsp;At this point, I&#8217;m going to say unless there is =
harm it should remain.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
096, irrespective of the size of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute =
to be included.&nbsp; &nbsp;No such attribute exists today.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a &#8220;killer application&#8221; =
that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have =
to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person defining that attribute must =
carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] I don&#8217;t think that I agree with this. E.g. I =
don&#8217;t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the =
size of their attribute. Hence I don&#8217;t see why you could not have, =
today (with Extended Message support) , attributes larger than 4096 =
octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attribute since they =
wanted for more space.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large =
communities not limiting the size.&nbsp; It is worthy of a change to =
both the large communities and a footnote in Randy&#8217;s =
specification. &nbsp;How about the addition of a single sentence to =
point people in the right direction. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which =
cannot be precisely decomposed if it <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large =
community attribute with 1000 communities. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error =
cases of a large BGP attribute was given.&nbsp; The originator of the =
common could not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put =
this &nbsp;&#8220;warning label&#8221; into the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
is one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to be problematic. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;T</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>hat they =
don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This warning was text that other participants asked to be added. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is a common sense warning.&nbsp; Extended messages are enabled on =
a peer by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into =
a Peer that does not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will =
need to be reformatted to the smaller size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running =
immediately to the Extended messages as the default could cause =
problems. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the =
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the =
specification does not address it.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In &#8220;Running immediately to Extended Message&#8221; I =
don&#8217;t think they that the issue is with &#8220;immediately&#8221;. =
Whenever you start the transition, your likely to run into =
problems.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the =
wire and the appropriate error handling of the messages.&nbsp; &nbsp;If =
I have missed something in this case, please let me know. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] IMHO specifications need to handle error conditions that =
they create by design.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The specification does not specify the necessary policies =
implementation should have in order to decide what to do in the case of =
mixed network.&nbsp; &nbsp;The clear indication was this type was not =
appropriate for the protocol specification. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.&nbsp; It is worthy of &#8220;use case or application =
notes&#8221; written for specific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but =
not in the specification.&nbsp; Again, if it is significant enough =
concern for operators and implementers &#8211; it would be worthy to =
have combined use case document besides this point. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I&#8217;m happy to sponsor cross-area work on this use =
case. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Future =
protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers =
which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>?&gt;</span>case? This should be described =
in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, =
as every BGP <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I fail to see your logic.&nbsp; At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI =
and attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a =
BGP peer A which connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and =
on link to a BGP peer C with extended messages only has to worry about =
reformatting the data.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define how that works in the specification.&nbsp; There is no need to =
refine the current set of specifications.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which =
may not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP =
message<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 =
smaller attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this =
specification needs to specify how to handle this =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: &nbsp;IHMO the message transmission and reception error =
handling issues are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the =
extended message section 5. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if you combine 2 smaller attributes.&nbsp; For example, if you =
have a large community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you =
will likely run into problems when combining with some longer AS path =
lengths.&nbsp; [4800</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>=E0</span>=
<span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued =
this was policy and implementation specific =
details.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] It&#8217;s not implementation specific. This is an issue =
created by the specification. Let&#8217;s discuss it in =
public.</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator =
community to have this type of policy details discussed to see if there =
is some desire to have common policies and error communities. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;It is the type of thing that GROW and IDR should be deeply =
involved for large communities.&nbsp; &nbsp;BESS, LSVR, SPRING and =
others should consider what policy should be adapted for their =
applications. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
nternet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible =
consequences could be BGP NLRI </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>b=
eing removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community =
(such as Route Targets) been removed. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
oth having significant consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not =
fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If you define one (as SIDR did), then you =
will need to have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational =
groups (GROW, etc).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno] no, cf above.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Sue]: &nbsp;Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large =
communities to blow up BGP. &nbsp;I have a new worry to add to my BGP =
concerns list! <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>[Bruno2] IMHO, the problem is more with Extended Message than with =
large community. And we can work to consider and address this =
problem.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=A7=
4<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=A78<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&#8220;This =
extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Before evaluating =
this, I think this document should first specified how a BGP <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>messages bigger =
than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><b><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, =
2019 12:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf..org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><spa=
n =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>If you have received =
this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message =
and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be =
altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, =
changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>If you have received this =
email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, =
Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>If you have received this =
email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, =
Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0215_01D4C9CF.9D5E4040--



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To: "'Jakob Heitz \(jheitz\)'" <jheitz@cisco.com>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "'Bruno Decraene'" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "'idr@ietf. org'" <idr@ietf.org>
References: <007b01d4b7c6$5b002210$11006630$@ndzh.com> <16873_1548768802_5C505622_16873_491_9_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489AE8F1@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <024a01d4b7d8$f7925b90$e6b712b0$@olddog.co.uk> <4052_1548770128_5C505B50_4052_60_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489AEA6C@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01a201d4c3ce$b6e6df10$24b49d30$@ndzh.com> <17281_1550132953_5C6526D9_17281_161_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489D3D92@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <00c901d4c489$8f311830$ad934890$@ndzh.com> <CAOj+MME2NUzGZ-HeBwzE_hwb1pBPED=u-TzDnJXGPz+Q6B8KMQ@mail.gmail.com> <BN6PR11MB2050623467364B68264208D6C0610@BN6PR11MB2050.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR11MB2050623467364B68264208D6C0610@BN6PR11MB2050.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Jakob and Robert:=20

=20

Thanks to Bruno=E2=80=99s proposed code =E2=80=93 I think I understand =
Bruno=E2=80=99s concerns.  Would you read my response and the proposed =
text changes.   Let me know if my proposed changes to section 5 and 9 of =
Randy=E2=80=99s draft address your concerns.=20

=20

If so, I will start a specific all on those additions to the draft.=20

=20

Thanks for your patience with me,

=20

Susan Hares

=20

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 8:02 PM
To: Robert Raszuk; Susan Hares
Cc: Bruno Decraene; idr@ietf. org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

This is a show stopper for me too.

=20

One way to solve it would be to restrict the extended messages to new =
address families only.

Any new address family would then need to specify that it must support =
extended messages,

such that all implementations of the new address family must support the =
extended messages.

=20

Regards,

Jakob.

=20

[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a =
mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.

>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI =
with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having =
1000 large communitiess)

Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not =
supporting EM?

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 1:34 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; idr@ietf. org =
<idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Dear Sue & authors of this proposal,

=20

> Therefore, putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to=20

> 4096 octets or less in an Extended Message is a likely path to=20

> routing failure.

=20

That's brilliant statement but not enough to proceed with this spec.=20

=20

See the fundamental change that today such issue is in vast majority of =
cases locally significant. That means that if I send NLRI to BGP it will =
have a decent chance to be received by all intended parties.=20

=20

With new spec we are saying that it may silently fail somewhere in the =
middle and we do not do anything about it. That's to me showstopper.=20

=20

At min if given NLRI can not be sent with XXL attributes to some peers =
(say on the RR which Bruno mentioned) we must specify protocol extension =
in this very spec on how to deal with it.=20

=20

Such extension may be as simple as to define a short attribute =
BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN which will be inserted in the place where XXL =
attribute just did not fit smaller message size peers to tell them then =
"Hey something is broken with this NLRI" - pls check. Then it will be up =
to local policy to install such NLRI or drop it.=20

=20

Thx,
R.

=20

=20

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

Bruno:=20

=20

Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have =
translation issues between our =E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D language again =
so I have tried to be precise in the detailed comments.  I=E2=80=99ve =
summarized my comments as well to help us take the next step.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

Summary

----

Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message =
size!  This is a case where a code path could get caught with program =
error..  The error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the =
extended specification) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is =
longer than the message.   Please let me know if I=E2=80=99ve missed =
something.  =20

=20

As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to =
add notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly =
combine RFC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The =
implementers and operations people commented earlier that this should =
not be in the protocol specification other than as a brief footnote. =20

=20

I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular =
use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), =
SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs =
(rtgwg), and SPRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should =
consider if there is need for standardization for a minimal set of =
policy for message sizes for specific use cases.   I will be glad to =
send request to these WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy =
that can be used across all use cases.=20

=20

To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how =
about this change to paragraph in section 4:=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 =
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

[PS =E2=80=93 in American English =E2=80=9CCan not=E2=80=9D is normally =
concatenated =E2=80=9Ccannot=E2=80=9D.]=20

  =20

=20

=20

=20

From: bruno..decraene@orange.com <mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>  =
[mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Sue,

=20

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

=20

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Bruno:=20

=20

I=E2=80=99d like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on =
comments (public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received =
on this draft in our last WG LCs.  =20

=20

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other =
questions.   This gets into a catch-22=E2=80=A6 problem =E2=80=93 where =
you put changes in for one person/take out the changes out for another.  =
In academic circles this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 =
insists changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during =
publication.  Therefore, I=E2=80=99m I am going to answer most of your =
questions where this is the case. =20

=20

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I=E2=80=99ve =
indicated.  I=E2=80=99m hoping he=E2=80=99ll just post that version.  =
AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations.=20

=20

Sue=20

=20

=20

=20

<shepherd hat on>=20

This draft=E2=80=99s technology provides efficient processing for some =
application by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether =
=E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D BGP to 4096 byte messages or packing large =
amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effective for a =
particular application is something only an implementer of a particular =
BGP implementation  can decide..   This draft simply gives freedom for =
applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message size.  =
The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.=20

=20

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which =
=E2=80=9Cchunks=E2=80=9D BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve =
substantial rework of the implementation. =20

=20

=20

(snip)=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

Hi WG,

=20

>Please find below some comments.

>As of today, I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be =
progressed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 =
(core BGP spec).

=20

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation. =20

=20


>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended- =
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eimple=
mentations> >implementations says : 5a=20

Does not send Extended Message capability=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

Yes=20

=20

>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of =
the above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the =
capability hence no implementation supports =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..=20

>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension =
for a niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the >arguments for not =
requiring the IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable implementations.

=20

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should =
have indicate

>full support.   I=E2=80=99m waiting for Olivier to update based on the =
last point, but my understanding is that=20

All implementations have full support. =20

=20

[Bruno] ok, solved

>----

>=C2=A7 1

>=E2=80=9C As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and

>   newer capabilities (e.g., [ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol]), there is

>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  =
=E2=80=9C

>=20

> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1

=20

=20

>[ =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-=
I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any >reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So =
presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. =
Can we have an update on this?  Can the introduction of =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >be updated to introduce on the =
real reasons/needs?

=20

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR=E2=80=99s work and took a reduced size of =
encryption.   The security people were very sad about the reduction.  =
How is this working in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question. =20

=20

The real problem is there is finite message space. =20

[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as =
message space is still limited)

=20

[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) =
is probably enough for 10 years.  =20

=20

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes =
=E2=80=93 to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D these into small message sizes or =
place these into a large message.    Some applications may always want =
to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D into message sizes smaller than 4096.   Some =
application make work more efficiently utilizing large message size.  As =
the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new applications =
may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way to exchange =
amounts of BGP data.   =20

=20

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer =
decision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the =
BGP message it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in =
this draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are =
facts of basic BGP implementations

[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a =
mixed of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.

>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI =
with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having =
1000 large communitiess)

Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not =
supporting EM?

[Sue]:  Gladly=E2=80=A6=20

A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.   =
It agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the =
BGP Extended messages is accepted or not (based on capability =
announcement).=20

Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  =
BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support extended messages.=20

=20

If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large =
communities with  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via =
extended communities to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.

The policy in the RR must specify whether:=20

a)      the =E2=80=9Ctoo long=E2=80=9D attribute path length must be =
dropped, or=20

b)      the BGP attribute path can be truncated.=20

=20

This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation =
staff.  Each operator may choose to write this policy differently.=20

=20

Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,  =
the previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this =
information out of the protocol specification.=20

=20

If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS, =
LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft =
that can be reviewed by all these WGs.=20

=20

=20

=E2=80=93 so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy=E2=80=99s =
draft is useful.  In fact, in the previous rounds of review this point =
was made.=20

=20

Your question (and perhaps Jakob=E2=80=99s) is whether we have reached a =
time/place where the =E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D approach will fail on a =
peer-by-peer basis?   This draft does not make this statement. =20

=20

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by =
increasing the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. =
BGP-LS) .   The choice to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D or stream in large BGP =
message is an implementation choice for a particular BGP application. =20

=20

----

=C2=A74

=C2=A73 says =E2=80=9CA peer which does not advertise this capability =
MUST NOT send BGP

   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to =
it.=E2=80=9D

[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version =
4 [upcoming below]]/.=20

=20

--------------

=20

Fine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above ..e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the

   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

=20

NEW:

A BGP speaker

   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and =
received the

   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.

=20

=20

----

>=E2=80=9C   Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated

>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the

>   maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D

>=20

>I don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence

=20

Bruno =E2=80=93 people asked to put this text in as an operational =
warning.  At this point, I=E2=80=99m going to say unless there is harm =
it should remain. =20

[Bruno] OK.

=20

----

>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the

>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

>=20

>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size =
of each attribute.

>Please elaborate on what you mean by=20

>=20

>=E2=80=9Can attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 =
octets=E2=80=9D

=20

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with =
length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute =
to be included.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers =
create a =E2=80=9Ckiller application=E2=80=9D that uses a 6000 byte =
attribute, the rest of the Internet does not have to use it.   However, =
the person defining that attribute must carefully specify it must go =
with Extended BGP messages.=20

=20

=20

[Bruno] I don=E2=80=99t think that I agree with this. E.g. I =
don=E2=80=99t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the =
size of their attribute. Hence I don=E2=80=99t see why you could not =
have, today (with Extended Message support) , attributes larger than =
4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attribute since =
they wanted for more space.

[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities =
not limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large =
communities and a footnote in Randy=E2=80=99s specification.  How about =
the addition of a single sentence to point people in the right =
direction.=20

=20

Old/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

/

New/

   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the

   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers

   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,

   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or

   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed =
if it=20

   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 =
communities.=20

   (12,000 bytes). =20

/

 =20

=20

This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases =
of a large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could =
not provide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  =
=E2=80=9Cwarning label=E2=80=9D into the draft.   This is one of the =
cases where adding/removing text gets to be problematic.=20

=20

>---

>=E2=80=9C   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and =
implementers are

>   conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D

>=20

>What does this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this =
extension?=20

>That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?

=20

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.=20

=20

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer =
by peer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that =
does not support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be =
reformatted to the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended =
messages as the default could cause problems..=20

=20

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the =
problem, how the specification partially address it, and how the =
specification does not address it.

In =E2=80=9CRunning immediately to Extended Message=E2=80=9D I =
don=E2=80=99t think they that the issue is with =
=E2=80=9Cimmediately=E2=80=9D. Whenever you start the transition, your =
likely to run into problems.

=20

=20

[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire =
and the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed =
something in this case, please let me know.=20

=20

The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation =
should have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.  =
 The clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol =
specification. =20

=20

Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism =
specific.  It is worthy of =E2=80=9Cuse case or application =
notes=E2=80=9D written for specific applications (BESS, SPRING, GROW), =
but not in the specification.  Again, if it is significant enough =
concern for operators and implementers =E2=80=93 it would be worthy to =
have combined use case document besides this point.    I=E2=80=99m happy =
to sponsor cross-area work on this use case.=20

=20

---

  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle

   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages.

=20

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing =
BGP mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed =
the size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in =
this ?>case? This should be described in this specification. Note that =
this is not a case of error handling, as every BGP=20

> speaker is behaving as specified.

=20

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and =
attributes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A =
which connects on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to =
a BGP peer C with extended messages only has to worry about reformatting =
the data. =20

=20

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that =
does not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to =
define how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine =
the current set of specifications.  =20

[Bruno]

1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may =
not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message

2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller =
attributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.

=20

The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this =
specification needs to specify how to handle this case.

=20

[Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling =
issues are complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended =
message section 5.=20

=20

What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what =
happens if you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a =
large community attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will =
likely run into problems when combining with some longer AS path =
lengths.  [4800=C3=A0 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list =
and in-person argued this was policy and implementation specific =
details. =20

=20

I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community =
to have this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some =
desire to have common policies and error communities.   It is the type =
of thing that GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large =
communities.   BESS, LSVR, SPRING and others should consider what policy =
should be adapted for their applications.=20

=20

>----

>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP =
Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences =
could be BGP NLRI >being removed in the middle of such network, or =
(extended) community (such as Route Targets) been removed. >Both having =
significant consequences on the availability provided by the network.

=20

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit =
within 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to =
have it reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, =
etc).=20

[Bruno] no, cf above.

[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities =
to blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list!=20

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

=20

---

>=C2=A74

>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages =
except for the >OPEN message.=20

>Probably

>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types =
except for the >OPEN message (type 1).=20

>----

>=C2=A78

>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying =
security issues =C2=BB
>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified =
how a BGP=20
>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to =
a=20
>received not supporting this extension.

=20

Nits:

>OLD : to reduce compexity

>NEW : to reduce complexity

=20

Thanks,

--Bruno

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf..org>=20
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

=20

=20

This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at: =


=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/

=20

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers =
are encouraged to update the  implementation data at:=20

=20

 =
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implemen=
tations> =
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implement=
ations

=20

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running =
short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by =
BGP-LS features. =20

=20

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation. =20

=20

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication. =20

=20

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)=20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
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recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
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As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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Thank you.
_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
=20
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou falsifie. Merci.
=20
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Jakob and Robert: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks to =
Bruno=E2=80=99s proposed code =E2=80=93 I think I understand =
Bruno=E2=80=99s concerns.=C2=A0 Would you read my response and the =
proposed text changes.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Let me know if my proposed changes to =
section 5 and 9 of Randy=E2=80=99s draft address your concerns. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If so, I will start a =
specific all on those additions to the draft. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your patience =
with me,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Susan =
Hares<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 15, 2019 8:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Robert Raszuk; Susan Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> Bruno Decraene; idr@ietf. =
org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#7030A0'>This =
is a show stopper for me too.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>One way to solve it would be to restrict the =
extended messages to new address families only.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>Any new address family would then need to specify =
that it must support extended messages,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>such that all implementations of the new address =
family must support the extended messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'>Jakob.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] =
Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed =
of clients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update =
containing one (single) NLRI with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger =
than&nbsp; 4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 large =
communitiess)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Can you explain me =
how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not supporting =
EM?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#7030A0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 15, 2019 =
1:34 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
Bruno Decraene &lt;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;; idr@ietf. org =
&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on =
Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Dear Sue &amp; authors of this =
proposal,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&gt; =
Therefore,&nbsp;putting an attribute which&nbsp;cannot be decomposed =
to&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&gt; =
4096 octets or&nbsp;less in an Extended Message is a likely path =
to&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&gt; =
routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>That's =
brilliant statement but not enough to proceed with this =
spec.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>See the =
fundamental change that today such issue is in vast majority of cases =
locally significant. That means that if I send NLRI to BGP it will have =
a decent chance to be received by all intended =
parties.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>With =
new spec we are saying that it may silently fail somewhere in the middle =
and we do not do anything about it. That's to me =
showstopper.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>At min =
if given NLRI can not be sent with XXL attributes to some peers (say on =
the RR which Bruno mentioned) we must specify protocol extension&nbsp;in =
this very spec on how to deal with it.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Such =
extension may be as simple as to define a short attribute =
BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN which will be inserted in the place where XXL =
attribute just did not fit smaller message size peers to tell them then =
&quot;Hey something is broken with this NLRI&quot; - pls check. Then it =
will be up to local policy to install such NLRI or drop =
it.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Thx,<br>R.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Bruno: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thank you for careful considerations on the use =
case.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think we have translation issues between our =
=E2=80=9CEnglish=E2=80=9D language again so I have tried to be precise =
in the detailed comments.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve summarized my comments as =
well to help us take the next step. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Summary</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities =
blowing up the message size!&nbsp; This is a case where a code path =
could get caught with program error..&nbsp; The error handling (section =
6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended specification) IMHO handles =
the case where the attribute is longer than the message.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Please let me know if I=E2=80=99ve missed something. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>As I understand it, &nbsp;you are asking this =
specification to be expanded to add notes on policies on what =
implementation should do to correctly combine RFC4271 length sizes with =
extended length sizes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The implementers and operations =
people commented earlier that this should not be in the protocol =
specification other than as a brief footnote.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree there is a need for such standardization =
as BCPs for particular use cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or =
centralized controller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Daylight =
comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.&nbsp; &nbsp;I think =
the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if there is need for =
standardization for a minimal set of policy for message sizes for =
specific use cases.&nbsp;&nbsp; I will be glad to send request to these =
WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy that can be used =
across all use cases. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>To provide a slight expansion to point people in =
this direction, how about this change to paragraph in section 4: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which =
cannot be precisely decomposed if it </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large =
community attribute with 1000 communities. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>[PS =
=E2=80=93 in American English =E2=80=9CCan not=E2=80=9D is normally =
concatenated =E2=80=9Ccannot=E2=80=9D.] </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
target=3D"_blank">bruno..decraene@orange.com</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the reply. Please see inline =
[Bruno]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan =
Hares [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" =
target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
February 13, 2019 8:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno =
TGI/OLN<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Jakob Heitz =
(jheitz)'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message =
Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Bruno: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99d like to answer some of =
the questions you sent Randy based on comments (public and private) the =
chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft in our last WG LCs. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Several of the comments you =
questioned were put in to answer other questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets =
into a catch-22=E2=80=A6 problem =E2=80=93 where you put changes in for =
one person/take out the changes out for another.&nbsp; In academic =
circles this is called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists =
changes go in, reviewer 2 insists changes go out) during =
publication.&nbsp; Therefore, I=E2=80=99m I am going to answer most of =
your questions where this is the case.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I believe that Randy has new =
version with the changes I=E2=80=99ve indicated.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99m =
hoping he=E2=80=99ll just post that version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 =
compliant implementations. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Sue </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;shepherd hat on&gt; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This draft=E2=80=99s technology =
provides efficient processing for some application by allow a huge BGP =
message size.&nbsp; Whether =E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D BGP to 4096 byte =
messages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is =
more effective for a particular application is something only an =
implementer of a particular BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide.. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;This draft simply gives freedom for applications to not be =
restrict to an artificially small message size.&nbsp; The market place =
will choose whether this technology is used or =
not.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>As Jakob pointed out, changing a =
highly tuned BGP implementation which =E2=80=9Cchunks=E2=80=9D BGP data =
into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the =
implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>&nbsp;</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><i><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'color:#1F497D'>(snip) =
</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b>From:</b> Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" =
target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> 29 =
January 2019 13:33<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" =
target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last =
Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi =
WG,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please find =
below some comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>As of today, =
I don=E2=80=99t believe this specification is ready to be progressed to =
IESG/RFC, especially for a document <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP =
spec).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
gt; The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the =
current level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D636 =
style=3D'width:476.9pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><tr><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%=
3eimplementations" =
target=3D"_blank">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-=
extended-&gt;implementations</a> says : </span>5a =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Does not =
send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes =
<o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be =
misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the above =
is that none of the reported <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>implementations sends the capability =
hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages.. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here this =
document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a =
niche use case. So I don=E2=80=99t see the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the =
IDR=E2=80=99s usual two interoperable =
implementations.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;In our mail thread, we =
discovered that the implementation report should have =
indicate</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
I=E2=80=99m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point, but =
my understanding is that </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>All implementations have full =
support. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] ok, =
solved</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A7 =
1</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C As BGP is =
extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; newer =
capabilities (e.g., [</span><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>]), there =
is</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; a need =
to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; =
=E2=80=9C</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#section-1" =
target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended=
-messages-27#section-1</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>[</span><span=
 lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-=
27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is now RFC =
8205 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the =
normative/any <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>reference to =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not =
need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span>Can we have an update on this?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> &nbsp;</span>Can the introduction of <span =
style=3D'color:black'>draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span style=3D'color:black'>be =
updated to introduce on the real =
reasons/needs?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>SIDR gave up waiting on =
IDR=E2=80=99s work and took a reduced size of encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
The security people were very sad about the reduction.&nbsp; How is this =
working in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The real problem is there is finite =
message space.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the =
real problem ;-) (as message space is still =
limited)</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile), =
&nbsp;but I hope 65,635 (smile) is probably enough for 10 years.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>There are two ways to send lots of =
BGP routes and/or attributes =E2=80=93 to =E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D these =
into small message sizes or place these into a large =
message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some applications may always want to =
=E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D into message sizes smaller than 4096.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large =
message size.&nbsp; As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes =
grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a more =
reasonable way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The decision on how to send BGP =
messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP message it =
sends to the remote BGP peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this =
draft represent an agreement between two BGP peers.&nbsp; These are =
facts of basic BGP implementations</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] Let=E2=80=99s take the example of a BGP =
Route Reflector having a mixed of clients, some supporting Extend =
Message (EM) and some not.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update =
containing one (single) NLRI with an Total Path Attribute Length bigger =
than&nbsp; 4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 large =
communitiess)</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Can you explain me how it behaves to send this =
NLRI to an IBGP peer not supporting EM?</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]:&nbsp; Gladly=E2=80=A6 =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with =
each of its BGP clients.&nbsp; &nbsp;It agrees with each of its clients =
(BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP Extended messages is accepted or =
not (based on capability announcement). </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support =
extended messages, and &nbsp;BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do support extended =
messages. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If the policy in RR accepts a total path length =
of 1000 large communities with &nbsp;a single NLRI, it may send the BGP =
attribute via extended communities to BGP-C2 and =
BGP-C2.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The policy in the RR must specify whether: =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m715297875910682865msolistparagraph><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>a)</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>the =E2=80=9Ctoo long=E2=80=9D =
attribute path length must be dropped, or =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dgmail-m715297875910682865msolistparagraph><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>b)</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>the BGP attribute path can be =
truncated. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and =
the network operation staff.&nbsp; Each operator may choose to write =
this policy differently. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Rather than specify the numerous cases in the =
protocol specification, &nbsp;the previous discussions (private and =
public) asked us to trim this information out of the protocol =
specification. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If you believe this is worthy of a use case =
draft for the sake of BESS, LSVR, SPRING, Grow and others, I will =
happily WG chair sponsor a draft that can be reviewed by all these WGs. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=93 so I do not believe adding these facts =
to Randy=E2=80=99s draft is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the previous =
rounds of review this point was made. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Your question (and perhaps Jakob=E2=80=99s) is =
whether we have reached a time/place where the =
=E2=80=9Cchunking=E2=80=9D approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis? =
&nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does not make this statement.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The point of this draft is to enable more =
efficient processing by increasing the message size for BGP peers that =
send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choice to =
=E2=80=9Cchunk=E2=80=9D or stream in large BGP message is an =
implementation choice for a particular BGP application.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A74</span=
><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=C2=A73 says =
=E2=80=9C</span>A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT =
send BGP<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5..4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT =
be sent to it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=E2=80=9D</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[I believe randy accepted this change with the =
following text in version 4 [upcoming below]]/. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>--------------</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
ine. Text in =C2=A74 should probably be aligned with the above =
..e.g.</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>OLD: </span>A BGP =
speaker<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability from that peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
EW:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A BGP =
speaker</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY =
send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Extended Message Capability to and from that =
peer.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span=
 =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=80=9C</span>&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information which might be =
encapsulated<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; within =
BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
maximum message size into account.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I =
don=E2=80=99t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is =
none, I would suggest to remove this sentence</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Bruno =E2=80=93 people asked to put this text in =
as an operational warning.&nbsp; At this point, I=E2=80=99m going to say =
unless there is harm it should remain.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP =
announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout =
the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP =
speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP =
speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which =
do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; =
Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets =
or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less =
in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing =
failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to =
BGP message whose length is bigger than </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>4=
096, irrespective of the size of each attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>P=
lease elaborate on what you mean by </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=E2=
=80=9C</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 =
octets=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 =
is an attribute with length 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires =
the entire attribute to be included.&nbsp; &nbsp;No such attribute =
exists today.&nbsp; &nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a =E2=80=9Ckiller =
application=E2=80=9D that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the =
Internet does not have to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person =
defining that attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended =
BGP messages. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] I don=E2=80=99t think that I agree with =
this. E.g. I don=E2=80=99t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092 =
[(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I =
don=E2=80=99t see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message =
support) , attributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status =
for the BGPSec attribute since they wanted for more =
space.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: You make a good point about the =
possibility of large communities not limiting the size.&nbsp; It is =
worthy of a change to both the large communities and a footnote in =
Randy=E2=80=99s specification.&nbsp; How about the addition of a single =
sentence to point people in the right direction. =
</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Old/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>New/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal =
case, propagate throughout the</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will =
undoubtedly be BGP speakers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message =
capability.&nbsp; Therefore,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be =
decomposed to 4096 octets or</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which =
cannot be precisely decomposed if it </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large =
community attribute with 1000 communities. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>/</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This text was added during an =
earlier discussion where the error cases of a large BGP attribute was =
given.&nbsp; The originator of the common could not provide the exact =
description, but we agreed to put this &nbsp;=E2=80=9Cwarning =
label=E2=80=9D into the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is one of the cases =
where adding/removing text gets to be problematic. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol =
developers and implementers are</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
conservative in their application and use of Extended =
Messages.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What does =
this mean exactly? That they don=E2=80=99t use this extension? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;T</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>hat they =
don=E2=80=99t use this extension unless XX_TO BE =
SPECIFIED_XX?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This warning was text that other =
participants asked to be added. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>It is a common sense warning.&nbsp; =
Extended messages are enabled on a peer by peer basis as all BGP =
capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into a Peer that does not support the =
larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to the =
smaller size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running immediately to the Extended messages =
as the default could cause problems.. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be =
elaborated. Indicating the problem, how the specification partially =
address it, and how the specification does not address =
it.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In =E2=80=9CRunning immediately to Extended =
Message=E2=80=9D I don=E2=80=99t think they that the issue is with =
=E2=80=9Cimmediately=E2=80=9D. Whenever you start the transition, your =
likely to run into problems.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to =
encode the bytes on the wire and the appropriate error handling of the =
messages.&nbsp; &nbsp;If I have missed something in this case, please =
let me know. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The specification does not specify the necessary =
policies implementation should have in order to decide what to do in the =
case of mixed network.&nbsp; &nbsp;The clear indication was this type =
was not appropriate for the protocol specification. =
&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Earlier discussion indicated that these is =
policy and mechanism specific.&nbsp; It is worthy of =E2=80=9Cuse case =
or application notes=E2=80=9D written for specific applications (BESS, =
SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.&nbsp; Again, if it is =
significant enough concern for operators and implementers =E2=80=93 it =
would be worthy to have combined use case document besides this point. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I=E2=80=99m happy to sponsor cross-area work on this =
use case. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; =
Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to =
handle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet =
messages.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Why is this =
limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mechanism =
(AFI/SAFI, attributes, * <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this =
<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>?&gt;</span>case? This should be described =
in this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, =
as every BGP </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>speaker is =
behaving as specified.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I fail to see your logic.&nbsp; At =
this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attributes) must fit within a =
4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a BGP peer A which connects on link =
1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C with =
extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>In the future, the first group that =
defines attribute or an NLRI that does not fit within a 4096 BGP message =
and cannot be split, will need to define how that works in the =
specification.&nbsp; There is no need to refine the current set of =
specifications.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno]</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>1) cf above, I believe that there are existing =
BGP Attributes which may not fit into a bytes 4096 BGP =
message</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you =
have the issue of 2 smaller attributes whose cumulative size does not =
fit into a 4096 bytes message.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The problem is introduced by this specification, =
hence I believe this specification needs to specify how to handle this =
case.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: &nbsp;IHMO the message transmission and =
reception error handling issues are complete in the combination of =
RFC4271 and the extended message section 5. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>What is not in this specification is the policy =
issues about what happens if you combine 2 smaller attributes.&nbsp; For =
example, if you have a large community attribute of 400 communities =
(4800 bytes), you will likely run into problems when combining with some =
longer AS path lengths.&nbsp; [4800</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>=C3=A0</span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list =
and in-person argued this was policy and implementation specific =
details.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I agree with you that it is extremely useful to =
the operator community to have this type of policy details discussed to =
see if there is some desire to have common policies and error =
communities. &nbsp;&nbsp;It is the type of thing that GROW and IDR =
should be deeply involved for large communities.&nbsp; &nbsp;BESS, LSVR, =
SPRING and others should consider what policy should be adapted for =
their applications. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
---</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>D=
epending on the above specification, a section describing the =
operational consequences in a network (such as the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
nternet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible =
consequences could be BGP NLRI </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>b=
eing removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community =
(such as Route Targets) been removed. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
oth having significant consequences on the availability provided by the =
network.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>At this point, there are no =
attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If =
you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it reviewed by =
IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, =
etc).&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Bruno] no, cf =
above.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[Sue]: &nbsp;Thank you for reminding me of the =
potential of large communities to blow up BGP.&nbsp; I have a new worry =
to add to my BGP concerns list! </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>--Bruno</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>=C2=
=A74</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD: The Extended =
Message Capability only applies to all messages except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Probably</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW: The Extended =
Message Capability applies to all message types except for the <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>----</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=C2=A78</span><o:p></o:p></p><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>=E2=80=9CThis extension to BGP does =
not change BGP's underlying security =
issues&nbsp;=C2=BB<o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>Before evaluating this, I think this =
document should first specified how a BGP <o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span>messages bigger than 4096 octets is =
handled when it needs to be sent to a <o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&gt;</span>received not supporting this extension.<o:p></o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>N=
its:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>OLD&nbsp;: to =
reduce compexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#1F497D'>&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>NEW&nbsp;: to =
reduce complexity</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-=
-Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf..org" =
target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call =
on Extened Message Support</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP =
(draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp; You can access the =
draft at: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-mess=
ages/" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Implementers are encouraged to update the&nbsp; implementation data at: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-i=
mplementations" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>https://trac.=
ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span>=
</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets =
for all messages except OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is =
running short for all of the potential attributes or additions proposed =
by BGP-LS features.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current =
level of implementation.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A=
s you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is =
mature, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for =
those deploying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for =
publication.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>S=
ue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3=
5.4pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>__________________________________________=
_________________________________________________________________________=
______</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
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lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou =
copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, =
veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que =
les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce =
message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>This message and its attachments may =
contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by =
law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>they should not be distributed, =
used or copied without authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>If you have received this email in error, =
please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>As emails may be altered, Orange is not =
liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas'>Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre></div><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces =
jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le =
detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant =
susceptibles d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline toute =
responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>This message and its =
attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may =
be protected by law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>If you have received this =
email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, =
Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>_______________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. =
Merci.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this =
message and its attachments.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span =
lang=3DFR>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span lang=3DFR>Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></pre></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Idr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><o:p></o:p=
></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D4C9D1.53BED470--


From nobody Fri Feb 22 00:39:23 2019
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 00:39:15 -0800
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Flexible Algorithm Definition Advertisement with BGP Link-State
        Authors         : Ketan Talaulikar
                          Peter Psenak
                          Shawn Zandi
                          Gaurav Dawra
	Filename        : draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-01.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2019-02-22

Abstract:
   Flexible Algorithm is a solution that allows routing protocols (viz.
   OSPF and IS-IS) to compute paths over a network based on user-defined
   (and hence, flexible) constraints and metrics.  The computation is
   performed by routers participating in the specific network in a
   distribute manner using a Flex Algorithm definition.  This definition
   provisioned on one or more routers and propagated (viz.  OSPF and IS-
   IS flooding) through the network.

   BGP Link-State (BGP-LS) enables the collection of various topology
   information from the network.  This draft defines extensions to BGP-
   LS address-family to advertise the Flexible Algorithm Definition as a
   part of the topology information from the network.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-flex-algo-01


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From nobody Fri Feb 22 00:54:16 2019
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Application Specific Attributes Advertisement with BGP Link-State
        Authors         : Ketan Talaulikar
                          Peter Psenak
                          Jeff Tantsura
	Filename        : draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr-01.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2019-02-22

Abstract:
   Various link attributes have been defined in link-state routing
   protocols like OSPF and IS-IS in the context of the MPLS Traffic
   Engineering (TE) and GMPLS.  BGP Link-State (BGP-LS) extensions have
   been defined to distribute these attributes along with other topology
   information from these link-state routing protocols.  Many of these
   link attributes can be used for applications other than MPLS TE or
   GMPLS.

   Extensions to link-state routing protocols have been defined for such
   link attributes which enable distribution of their application
   specific values.  This document defines extensions to BGP-LS address-
   family to enable advertisement of these application specific
   attributes as a part of the topology information from the network.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-app-specific-attr-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
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From nobody Fri Feb 22 01:09:24 2019
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP Link-State Extensions for Seamless BFD
        Authors         : Zhenbin Li
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          Greg Mirsky
                          Shunwan Zhuang
                          Ketan Talaulikar
	Filename        : draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions-03.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2019-02-22

Abstract:
   Seamless Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (S-BFD) defines a
   simplified mechanism to use Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
   with large portions of negotiation aspects eliminated, thus providing
   benefits such as quick provisioning as well as improved control and
   flexibility to network nodes initiating the path monitoring.  The
   link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF) have been extended to
   advertise the Seamless BFD (S-BFD) Discriminators.

   This draft defines extensions to the BGP Link-state address-family to
   carry the S-BFD Discriminators information via BGP.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions/

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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-li-idr-bgp-ls-sbfd-extensions-03


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 16:46:10 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support
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Sue,

Thank you for your reply.
Overall, looks good to me.
More inline [Bruno3]

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:24 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Robert Raszuk'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

Thank you for your specific suggestion.   It helps us work through the spec=
ifics of the changes to the BGP specification.  I do not see the  text in d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt changing section 6.3 of RFC4271.=
   I've included my understanding of how draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messag=
es-28.txt changes RFC4271 in the detailed comments below.

Your suggestion to improve section 6.3 of RFC4271 to handle the case where =
a BGP speaker peers with two different messages sizes (4096, 65,535) has op=
erational merit.   Would you mind this modification to you text:



"A BGP speaker which peers with some peers with extended message capability=
 and other peers without extended message capability, MUST do both of the f=
ollowing things:

-          The BGP speaker MUST support [RFC7606], and

-          The BGP speaker MUST handle a BGP Route (attribute, NLRI pair) t=
hat is too large to be sent to a BGP peer without the extended message capa=
bility using the "treat-as-withdraw" approach defined in [RFC7606].


The BGP speaker, MAY remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to use t=
he Attribute discard approach [RFC7606]. "
[Bruno3] Looks good to me. Thanks.
One detail: IMHO, the text could be understood in two different ways:

-          a) Withdraw the NLRI on the sessions without the extended messag=
e capability

-          b) Withdraw the NLRI on all sessions

IMHO we want "a" (although I can live with "b"). In all cases I'd prefer th=
at the specification clear this ambiguity. E.g. :s/ using the "treat-as-wit=
hdraw" approach defined in [RFC7606]/ using, for this BGP peer, the "treat-=
as-withdraw" approach defined in [RFC7606].

This would be added to section 5 of draft-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt.=
   See my suggested RFC4271 text changes for a logical placement within RFC=
4271.
[Bruno3] Looks good.

If this change to your text is agreeable, then section 8 would need to chan=
ge to:

/New text for the end of section 8/

This draft requires support for RFC7606 update error handling and as such i=
nherits the security considerations of RFC7606. This draft also recommends =
BGP peers avoid such issues by using Authenticated Encryption with addition=
al Data (AEAD) ciphers [RFC5116] and thus to discard messages that do not v=
erify.  It also recommends that IBGP peers all support extended message cap=
ability and [RFC7606].

During the transition to deploy extended messages and RFC7606 on an IBGP cl=
oud, operators should monitor any routes dropped as "treat as withdraw".

One example of a RFC7606 attack profile using the extended message is if th=
e remote attacker is able that to craft a large BGP route to send along a B=
GP path in which at least one peer does not support extended messages. This=
 peer which does not support extended message capability may encounter a dr=
ain on internal resources (processing, message sizes) if it continually ref=
ormats the large messages.  If the "treat as withdraw" feature of RFC7606 i=
s utilized, some routes may be consistently withdrawn at this point causing=
 inconsistent routing.

BGP routes are filtered by policies set by the operators.  Implementations =
may provide policies to filter routes that would cause the "treat as withdr=
aw" from being pass by an extended message speaker.
[Bruno3] + "Network operators may enable such policies on EBGP sessions"
(as enabling this on IBGP session does not provide improvement compared to =
the default "treat as withdraw".)
And I would rather move that sentence at the end of the first paragraph. As=
 this solution is only useful when the recommended approach is not used (de=
ploy first on all IBGP sessions, then you can use large message within the =
AS and/or enable extended message capability over EBGP sessions"

/

Please let me know I understand your suggested changes.
[Bruno3] Looks good. Thanks

Sue Hares

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.=
com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:25 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Susan,

We now agree that the problem can happen with existing BGP attributes. Good=
. So the argument to postpone the error handling discussion for future spec=
ification defining large attributes does not hold anymore.

Coming back to the draft,

Old/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.


1)      As a minor comment, the error is not limited to an (one single) att=
ribute (type) which size is bigger than 4096 octets. The error happens when=
 the Total Path Attribute Length (for all attributes) is bigger than 4096 o=
ctets.

[Sue]: My understanding of the Extended message draft is that it is not dea=
ling with section 6.3 of RFC4271.
[Bruno3] I agree. Section 6.3 of RFC4271 handles error when receiving a BGP=
 update message. While BGP Extended Message create error when sending a BGP=
 update message.
My comment was not related to section 6.3 or RFC 4271, but to the text of d=
raft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages which I have cited above. I don't see w=
hat could be unclear in my comment.

 Here's my understanding of the

RFC4271 states:

"All Errors detected while processing the Message header must be indicated =
by sending a NOTIFICATION message with the Message Header error.  The Error=
 subcode elaborates on the specific nature of the error. "

One of the errors is a message header length:  "If the length field of the =
message header is less than 19 or greater than 4096."  If any of these supe=
r large attributes causes the message length to be greater than 4096, then =
with RFC4271, the error code sent would be "Bad Message length."

If the message length is switch from 4096 to 65535 octets, the RFC4271 erro=
r handling would allow the message length to be 65,535.


After the section 6.1 text RFC4271 is changed to the following:
[Bruno3] Idem, section 6.1 of RFC4271 handles error when _receiving_ a BGP =
update message. While draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages generate an erro=
r condition when sending a BGP update.

    If at least one of the following is true:

-          If the Length field of the message header is less than 19 or gre=
ater than 4096

for OPEN message,


-          If BGP Extended Messages capability is not set, the length field=
 of any other BGP message other than an OPEN message is less than 19 or gre=
ater than 4095,


-          If the BGP Extended Message capability is set for a BGP peer, if=
 the length field is less than 19 or greater than 65,535.  (See the error h=
andling below for the setting of this function.)



-          If the length field of an UPDATE message is less than the minimu=
m field of the UPDATE message, or



-          If the length field of a KEEPALIVE message is not equal to 19, or



-          If the length field of a NOTIFICATION message is less than the m=
inimum length of the NOTIFICATION message.



Then the Error Subcode MUST Be set to Bad Message Length.  The Data field M=
UST contain the erroneous length field.
[
     6.9) Extended Message Capability

   To advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP
   speaker uses BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492<https://tools.ietf.=
org/html/rfc5492>].  By
   advertising the BGP Extended Message Capability to a peer, a BGP
   speaker conveys that it is able to send, receive, and properly handle
   BGP Extended Messages.

   A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it.

   The BGP Extended Message Capability is a new BGP Capability [RFC5492<htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492>]
   defined with Capability code 6 and Capability length 0.

    6.9.1) Operation:


      A BGP speaker that is capable of sending and receiving BGP Extended
   Messages SHOULD advertise the BGP Extended Message Capability to the
   peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisement [RFC5492<https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/rfc5492>].  A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and
   received the Extended Message Capability from that peer.

   The Extended Message Capability applies to all messages except for
   the OPEN message.  This exception is made to reduce complexity of
   providing backward compatibility


     An implementation that advertises support for BGP Extended Messages
   MUST be capable of receiving a message with a length up to and
   including 65535 octets.

   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
   maximum message size into account.

   If a BGP update with a payload longer than 4096 octets is received by
   a BGP listener who has neither advertised nor agreed to accept BGP
   Extended Messages, the listener MUST treat this as a malformed update
   message, and MUST raise an UPDATE Message Error (see section 6.3).


   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.

[Bruno3] the error is not limited to an (one single) attribute (type) which=
 size is bigger than 4096 octets. The error happens when the Total Path Att=
ribute Length (for all attributes) is bigger than 4096 octets

   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.

   6.9.2 Error Handling for the Extended messages


     A BGP speaker that has the ability to use Extended Messages but has
   not advertised the BGP Extended Messages capability, presumably due
   to configuration, SHOULD NOT accept an Extended Message.  A speaker
   MAY implement a more liberal policy and accept Extended Messages,
   even from a peer to which it has not advertised the capability, in
   the interest of preserving the BGP session if at all possible.
[Bruno3] The texts highlighted in blue are contradicting. I would suggest r=
emoving the blue text from =A74 which the behavior is related to error hand=
ling conditions described in section 5. (note that your coded text have cha=
nged the section numbers. I'm referring to the section numbers in the draft)

   A BGP speaker that does not advertise the BGP Extended Messages
   capability might also genuinely not support Extended Messages.  Such
   a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of section 6.1
   regarding message length.
[Bruno3] Agreed, but that text is not very logical: you can't define a new =
behavior for an old speaker. At minimum, I would propose the following chan=
ge:
OLD: Such
   a speaker MUST follow the error handling procedures of section 6.1
   regarding message length.

NEW: Such
   a speaker will follow the error handling procedures of [RFC4271] section=
 6.1
   regarding message length.



   The inconsistency between the local and remote BGP speakers MUST be
   flagged to the network operator through standard operational
   interfaces.  The information should include the NLRI and as much
   relevant information as reasonably possible.

[End of text change from draft ]


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


2)      As a major comment, I am asking for the specification to specify ho=
w it handles that failure, which is not the result of a possible bug, but c=
reated by design by the solution. It will happen.


Your proposition to "raise an alarm" is required but not sufficient as we s=
till need to specify what we do with this "big" route. One option could be =
"treat as withdraw", another option suggested by Robert is to propagate the=
 NLRI with subset of attributes plus an indication of the failure ("a short=
 attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN"). There may be others options.



[Sue]: Robert's option is a fine idea, but the WG did not accept this optio=
n in the past so I cannot force this option into the specification.  I hope=
 that Robert will propose this option again.

[Bruno3] Agreed. I'm perfectly with "treat-as-withdraw"



To trigger the discussion on the resolution, I would propose the following =
text "One BGP Route too large to be propagated to a BGP receiver not suppor=
ting BGP Extended Message MUST be handled, over this BGP session, using the=
 Treat-as-withdraw approach as defined in [RFC7606]. The BGP speaker MAY, b=
eforehand, remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to the Attribute d=
iscard approach [RFC7606]."



[Sue]:  This text deals with section 6.3 in RFC4271, and to my understandin=
g draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messges-28.txt only deals with section 6.1 of=
 RFC4271.

[Bruno3] I disagree that the text deals with sections 6.3 or 6.1 of RFC 427=
1. Those sections refers to error handling or _received_ BGP update, while =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages create error when _sending_ a BGP upda=
te.

    In addition, there is no concept of propagation RFC7606 or RFC4271.  Ea=
ch BGP peer receives BGP messages and updates, it then propagates or sends =
routes and attributes to its peers.    Could I restate your suggestion as:



6.9.2 Error handling

(added at the end of the current text



A BGP speaker which peers with some peers with extended message capability =
and other peers without extended message capability, MUST handle a BGP Rout=
e (attribute, NLRI pair) that is too large to be sent to a BGP peer without=
 the extended message capability using the "treat-as-withdraw" approach def=
ined in [RFC7606].  The BGP speaker, MAY remove some BGP attributes which a=
re eligible to use the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606].

[Bruno3] point discussed at the top of you email.





3)      Once error handling is specified, the draft will be able to discuss

a.       the operational considerations for this issue (e.g. The one from R=
FC7606 could be referenced as-is, or used as inspiration)

b.      the security considerations (as a remote attacker would be able to =
craft a large BGP route that will be withdrawn (assuming "treat-as-withdraw=
") somewhere in some AS, possibly creating routing inconsistencies within t=
he AS)

c.       the proposed mitigations (e.g., an operator should enable support =
for Extended messages on all IBGP sessions first, before enabling it on an =
EBGP session; If not possible, an operator could define a policy to filter =
BGP attributes from EBGP sessions, typically based on their type and size;.=
...)

more inline [Bruno2]


From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:20 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'; 'John Scudder'; 'Alvaro Retana'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

Thank you for careful considerations on the use case.   I think we have tra=
nslation issues between our "English" language again so I have tried to be =
precise in the detailed comments.  I've summarized my comments as well to h=
elp us take the next step.

Sue

Summary
----
Good catch on the 1000 large BGP communities blowing up the message size!  =
This is a case where a code path could get caught with program error.  The =
error handling (section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended specif=
ication) IMHO handles the case where the attribute is longer than the messa=
ge.   Please let me know if I've missed something.

[Bruno2] I don't think that section 6.1 of RFC4271 covers this. The problem=
 is not a Message Header error handling as a proper BGP implementation woul=
d not sent the message. (not to mention with inconsistent size).
[Sue2]: OK, but section 6.1 is the only places that this draft changes.
[Bruno3] points discussed above

As I understand it,  you are asking this specification to be expanded to ad=
d notes on policies on what implementation should do to correctly combine R=
FC4271 length sizes with extended length sizes.   The implementers and oper=
ations people commented earlier that this should not be in the protocol spe=
cification other than as a brief footnote.

[Bruno2]An error handling must exist even in the absence of SP policies. Th=
e argument related to previous discussions does not hold IMHO as I've raise=
d a new point (this happens with existing BGP attributes, not in a hypothet=
ical new attribute)
[Sue2]:  Thank you for sending your text.  I can your comments are on the U=
PDATE handling processes based on RFC7606.  We were discussing 2 different =
places in RFC4271.

I agree there is a need for such standardization as BCPs for particular use=
 cases (large communities, BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), SPRING, B=
GP-LS information (see Daylight comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and S=
PRING.   I think the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if there i=
s need for standardization for a minimal set of policy for message sizes fo=
r specific use cases.   I will be glad to send request to these WG or to ho=
st something in IDR if there is policy that can be used across all use case=
s.

[Bruno2] I don't think that Error handling is to be considered as optional =
or for future consideration.
[Sue2]:  Based on your proposed text, I can see the value of considering th=
is text at this time.
[Bruno3] Thanks for considering the error handling for new error conditions=
 introduced by draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-
--Bruno

To provide a slight expansion to point people in this direction, how about =
this change to paragraph in section 4:

Old/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
/
New/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed if=
 it
   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 commun=
ities.
   (12,000 bytes).
/
[PS - in American English "Can not" is normally concatenated "cannot".]

[Bruno2] Thanks for the proposition, but this does not address my concern.
[Sue]: Thank you for your text - I understand why now.

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Sue,

Thanks for the reply. Please see inline [Bruno]

From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Bruno:

I'd like to answer some of the questions you sent Randy based on comments (=
public and private) the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft=
 in our last WG LCs..

Several of the comments you questioned were put in to answer other question=
s.   This gets into a catch-22... problem - where you put changes in for on=
e person/take out the changes out for another.  In academic circles this is=
 called the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer=
 2 insists changes go out) during publication.  Therefore, I'm I am going t=
o answer most of your questions where this is the case.

I believe that Randy has new version with the changes I've indicated.  I'm =
hoping he'll just post that version.  AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implem=
entations.

Sue



<shepherd hat on>
This draft's technology provides efficient processing for some application =
by allow a huge BGP message size.  Whether "chunking" BGP to 4096 byte mess=
ages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more effe=
ctive for a particular application is something only an implementer of a pa=
rticular BGP implementation  can decide.   This draft simply gives freedom =
for applications to not be restrict to an artificially small message size. =
 The market place will choose whether this technology is used or not.

As Jakob pointed out, changing a highly tuned BGP implementation which "chu=
nks" BGP data into 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the=
 implementation.


(snip)
From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange..com
Sent: 29 January 2019 13:33
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Cc: idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support

Hi WG,

>Please find below some comments.
>As of today, I don't believe this specification is ready to be progressed =
to IESG/RFC, especially for a document >updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).

> The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current l=
evel of implementation.

>https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended->implement=
ations<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3ei=
mplementations> says : 5a

Does not send Extended Message capability

Yes

Yes

Yes


>I may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the=
 above is that none of the reported >implementations sends the capability h=
ence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
>Here this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension fo=
r a niche use case. So I don't see the >arguments for not requiring the IDR=
's usual two interoperable implementations.

>In our mail thread, we discovered that the implementation report should ha=
ve indicate
>full support.   I'm waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point,=
 but my understanding is that
All implementations have full support.

[Bruno] ok, solved
>----
>=A7 1
>" As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and
>   newer capabilities (e.g., [I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgp=
sec-protocol>]), there is
>   a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.  "
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#secti=
on-1


>[I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<https://tools.ietf..org/html/draft-ietf-idr=
-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol> is now RFC 820=
5 (thanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any >re=
ference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does=
 not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp->extended-messages. Can we have an update on t=
his?  Can the introduction of draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages >be upda=
ted to introduce on the real reasons/needs?

SIDR gave up waiting on IDR's work and took a reduced size of encryption.  =
 The security people were very sad about the reduction.  How is this workin=
g in practice? WG sidrops can answer this question.

The real problem is there is finite message space.
[Bruno] So too bad the draft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as messag=
e space is still limited)

[Sue]: The message is still finite (smile),  but I hope 65,635 (smile) is p=
robably enough for 10 years.

There are two ways to send lots of BGP routes and/or attributes - to "chunk=
" these into small message sizes or place these into a large message.    So=
me applications may always want to "chunk" into message sizes smaller than =
4096.   Some application make work more efficiently utilizing large message=
 size.  As the potential number of NLRI and BGP attributes grows, new appli=
cations may consider large message sizes to a more reasonable way to exchan=
ge amounts of BGP data.

The decision on how to send BGP messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer de=
cision in a network.   Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP m=
essage it sends to the remote BGP peer.   The BGP capabilities in this draf=
t represent an agreement between two BGP peers.  These are facts of basic B=
GP implementations
[Bruno] Let's take the example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed of c=
lients, some supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.
>From an EM client, it receives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI wi=
th an Total Path Attribute Length bigger than  4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 =
large communitiess)
Can you explain me how it behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not sup=
porting EM?
[Sue]:  Gladly...
A BGP route reflector (RR-A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.   It =
agrees with each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP Exte=
nded messages is accepted or not (based on capability announcement).
Let us assume that BGP-C1 does not support extended messages, and  BGP-C2 a=
nd BGP-C3 do support extended messages.

If the policy in RR accepts a total path length of 1000 large communities w=
ith  a single NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended communities =
to BGP-C2 and BGP-C2.
The policy in the RR must specify whether:

a)      the "too long" attribute path length must be dropped, or

b)      the BGP attribute path can be truncated.

This is a policy issue within the BGP peer and the network operation staff.=
  Each operator may choose to write this policy differently.
[Bruno2] So we agree that a new behavior is REQUIRED. The draft does not me=
ntion this. The ability to change the behavior by policy does not remove th=
e need for specifying the error handling.

Rather than specify the numerous cases in the protocol specification,  the =
previous discussions (private and public) asked us to trim this information=
 out of the protocol specification.
[Bruno2] Can't be have a general rule which is good enough to handle the is=
sue? Previous discussions seemed based on the fact the error condition woul=
d happen for future attribute. This is not the case.

If you believe this is worthy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS, LSV=
R, SPRING, Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft that ca=
n be reviewed by all these WGs.
[Bruno2] I believe that this is worthy in this specification.


- so I do not believe adding these facts to Randy's draft is useful.  In fa=
ct, in the previous rounds of review this point was made.

Your question (and perhaps Jakob's) is whether we have reached a time/place=
 where the "chunking" approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis?   This dr=
aft does not make this statement.

The point of this draft is to enable more efficient processing by increasin=
g the message size for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .   =
The choice to "chunk" or stream in large BGP message is an implementation c=
hoice for a particular BGP application.

----
=A74

=A73 says "A peer which does not advertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP
   Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST NOT be sent to it."
[I believe randy accepted this change with the following text in version 4 =
[upcoming below]]/.

--------------

Fine. Text in =A74 should probably be aligned with the above .e.g.

OLD: A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has received the
   Extended Message Capability from that peer.

NEW:
A BGP speaker
   MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it has sent and received =
the
   Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.


----

>"   Applications generating information which might be encapsulated
>   within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the
>   maximum message size into account."
>
>I don't see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, I wo=
uld suggest to remove this sentence

Bruno - people asked to put this text in as an operational warning.  At thi=
s point, I'm going to say unless there is harm it should remain.
[Bruno] OK.

----
>   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
>   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
>   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
>   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
>   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
>
>The issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BG=
P message whose length is bigger than >4096, irrespective of the size of ea=
ch attribute.
>Please elaborate on what you mean by
>
>"an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets"

An attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 is an attribute with length=
 6000 inside of a BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be inc=
luded.   No such attribute exists today.   If a small BGP peers create a "k=
iller application" that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest of the Interne=
t does not have to use it.   However, the person defining that attribute mu=
st carefully specify it must go with Extended BGP messages.


[Bruno] I don't think that I agree with this. E.g. I don't see where RFCs 1=
997 or 8092 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I =
don't see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message support) , a=
ttributes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec=
 attribute since they wanted for more space.
[Sue]: You make a good point about the possibility of large communities not=
 limiting the size.  It is worthy of a change to both the large communities=
 and a footnote in Randy's specification.  How about the addition of a sing=
le sentence to point people in the right direction.

Old/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
/
New/
   A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the
   BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers
   which do not have the Extended Message capability.  Therefore,
   putting an attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets or
   less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.
   One example of a valid attribute which cannot be precisely decomposed if=
 it
   sent in Extended message is a large community attribute with 1000 commun=
ities.
   (12,000 bytes).
/



This text was added during an earlier discussion where the error cases of a=
 large BGP attribute was given.  The originator of the common could not pro=
vide the exact description, but we agreed to put this  "warning label" into=
 the draft.   This is one of the cases where adding/removing text gets to b=
e problematic.

>---
>"   It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are
>   conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages."
>
>What does this mean exactly? That they don't use this extension?
>That they don't use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?

This warning was text that other participants asked to be added.

It is a common sense warning.  Extended messages are enabled on a peer by p=
eer basis as all BGP capabilities are.  If you run into a Peer that does no=
t support the larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to=
 the smaller size.   Running immediately to the Extended messages as the de=
fault could cause problems.

[Bruno] I think that the sentence could be elaborated. Indicating the probl=
em, how the specification partially address it, and how the specification d=
oes not address it.
In "Running immediately to Extended Message" I don't think they that the is=
sue is with "immediately". Whenever you start the transition, your likely t=
o run into problems.


[Sue]: IMHO specification specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire and=
 the appropriate error handling of the messages.   If I have missed somethi=
ng in this case, please let me know.
[Bruno2] IMHO specifications need to handle error conditions that they crea=
te by design.

The specification does not specify the necessary policies implementation sh=
ould have in order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.   The=
 clear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol specif=
ication.

Earlier discussion indicated that these is policy and mechanism specific.  =
It is worthy of "use case or application notes" written for specific applic=
ations (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.  Again, if it is=
 significant enough concern for operators and implementers - it would be wo=
rthy to have combined use case document besides this point.    I'm happy to=
 sponsor cross-area work on this use case.

---
  Future protocol specifications will need to describe how to handle
   peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet messages..

>Why is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP=
 mechanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, * >communities) one could exceed the size=
 of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this ?>case=
? This should be described in this specification. Note that this is not a c=
ase of error handling, as every BGP
> speaker is behaving as specified.

I fail to see your logic.  At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attrib=
utes) must fit within a 4096 message.   Therefore, a BGP peer A which conne=
cts on link 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C w=
ith extended messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.

In the future, the first group that defines attribute or an NLRI that does =
not fit within a 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to define =
how that works in the specification.  There is no need to refine the curren=
t set of specifications.
[Bruno]
1) cf above, I believe that there are existing BGP Attributes which may not=
 fit into a bytes 4096 BGP message
2)Even in the absence of such attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller at=
tributes whose cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.

The problem is introduced by this specification, hence I believe this speci=
fication needs to specify how to handle this case.

[Sue]:  IHMO the message transmission and reception error handling issues a=
re complete in the combination of RFC4271 and the extended message section =
5.

What is not in this specification is the policy issues about what happens i=
f you combine 2 smaller attributes.  For example, if you have a large commu=
nity attribute of 400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run into pr=
oblems when combining with some longer AS path lengths.  [4800--> 5096 byte=
s is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this was policy=
 and implementation specific details.
[Bruno2] It's not implementation specific. This is an issue created by the =
specification. Let's discuss it in public.

I agree with you that it is extremely useful to the operator community to h=
ave this type of policy details discussed to see if there is some desire to=
 have common policies and error communities.   It is the type of thing that=
 GROW and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.   BESS, LSVR=
, SPRING and others should consider what policy should be adapted for their=
 applications.

>----
>Depending on the above specification, a section describing the operational=
 consequences in a network (such as the >Internet, BGP Enabled ServiceS/VPN=
 networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences could be BGP NLRI >bei=
ng removed in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as =
Route Targets) been removed. >Both having significant consequences on the a=
vailability provided by the network.

At this point, there are no attributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit wi=
thin 4096.   If you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it=
 reviewed by IDR, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).
[Bruno] no, cf above.
[Sue]:  Thank you for reminding me of the potential of large communities to=
 blow up BGP.  I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list!
[Bruno2] IMHO, the problem is more with Extended Message than with large co=
mmunity. And we can work to consider and address this problem.
--Bruno

Thanks,
--Bruno


---
>=A74
>OLD: The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except f=
or the >OPEN message.
>Probably
>NEW: The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except f=
or the >OPEN message (type 1).
>----
>=A78

>"This extension to BGP does not change BGP's underlying security issues =
=BB

>Before evaluating this, I think this document should first specified how a=
 BGP

>messages bigger than 4096 octets is handled when it needs to be sent to a

>received not supporting this extension.

Nits:
>OLD : to reduce compexity
>NEW : to reduce complexity

Thanks,
--Bruno

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support


This begins a 2 week WG LC on Extended Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).  You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf..org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/<htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/>

The authors should indicate whether they know of any IPR.   Implementers ar=
e encouraged to update the  implementation data at:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementat=
ions

The draft provides a means for expanding the BGP message to 65535 octets fo=
r all messages except OPEN messages.  BGP message space is running short fo=
r all of the potential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.

The WG chairs intend to forward this draft to the IESG with the current lev=
el of implementation.

As you comment on the draft, please consider if: a) the technology is matur=
e, b) the additional space in a BGP message would be helpful for those depl=
oying BGP-LS or SR, and c) if the specification is ready for publication.

Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)



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<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"tab-interval:35.4=
pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue,<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thank you fo=
r your reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Overall, loo=
ks good to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">More inline =
[Bruno3]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span class=3D"SpellE">=
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">From</sp=
an></b></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&q=
uot;">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;">
 Susan <span class=3D"SpellE">Hares</span> [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Robert Raszuk'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thank you for your specific sugg=
estion.&nbsp; &nbsp;It helps us work through the specifics of the changes
 to the BGP specification. &nbsp;I do not see the &nbsp;text in draft-ietf-=
idr-bgp-extended-messages-28.txt changing section 6.3 of RFC4271.&nbsp;&nbs=
p; I&#8217;ve included my understanding of how draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-=
messages-28.txt changes RFC4271 in the detailed comments below.&nbsp;
 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Your suggestion to improve secti=
on 6.3 of RFC4271 to handle the case where a BGP speaker peers
 with two different messages sizes (4096, 65,535) has operational merit. &n=
bsp;&nbsp;Would you mind this modification to you text:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;A BGP speaker whic=
h peers with some peers with extended message capability and other
 peers without extended message capability, MUST do both of the following t=
hings:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:60.15pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">The BGP speaker MUST support [RFC7606], and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:60.15pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">The BGP speaker MUST handle a BGP Route (attribute, N=
LRI pair) that is too large to be sent to a BGP peer without
 the extended message capability using the &#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221; =
approach defined in [RFC7606].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:60.15pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The BGP speaker, MAY remove some=
 BGP attributes which are eligible to use the Attribute discard
 approach [RFC7606]. &#8220; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 Looks good to me. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">One
 detail: IMHO, the text could be understood in two different ways:<o:p></o:=
p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:24.75pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i =
style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US=
">a)
 Withdraw the NLRI on the sessions without the extended message capability<=
o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:24.75pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i =
style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US=
">b)
 Withdraw the NLRI on all sessions<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:24.75pt"><b style=3D"mso=
-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1=
F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">IMHO
 we want &#8220;a&#8221; (although I can live with &#8220;b&#8221;). In all=
 cases I&#8217;d prefer that the specification clear this ambiguity. E.g. :=
s/</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
</span><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-s=
tyle:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">using the &#8220;treat=
-as-withdraw&#8221;
 approach defined in [RFC7606]/</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
</span><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-s=
tyle:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">using, for this BGP
 peer, the &#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221; approach defined in [RFC7606].<o=
:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This would be added to section 5=
 of draft-idr-bgp-extended-messages-25.txt.&nbsp;&nbsp; See my suggested
 RFC4271 text changes for a logical placement within RFC4271.&nbsp; <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 Looks good.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If this change to your text is a=
greeable, then section 8 would need to change to:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">/New text for the end of section=
 8/
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">This draft requires support for RFC7606 update erro=
r handling and as such inherits the security considerations
 of RFC7606. This draft also recommends BGP peers avoid such issues by usin=
g Authenticated Encryption with additional Data (AEAD) ciphers [RFC5116] an=
d thus to discard messages that do not verify.&nbsp; It also recommends tha=
t IBGP peers all support extended message
 capability and [RFC7606].&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">During the transition to deploy extended messages a=
nd RFC7606 on an IBGP cloud, operators should monitor
 any routes dropped as &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221;.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">One example of a RFC7606 attack profile using the e=
xtended message is if the remote attacker is able
 that to craft a large BGP route to send along a BGP path in which at least=
 one peer does not support extended messages. This peer which does not supp=
ort extended message capability may encounter a drain on internal resources=
 (processing, message sizes) if
 it continually reformats the large messages. &nbsp;If the &#8220;treat as =
withdraw&#8221; feature of RFC7606 is utilized, some routes may be consiste=
ntly withdrawn at this point causing inconsistent routing.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;co=
lor:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">BGP routes are filtered by policies set by the oper=
ators. &nbsp;Implementations may provide policies to filter
 routes that would cause the &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221; from being pas=
s by an extended message speaker.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 &#43; &#8220;Network operators may enable such policies on EBGP sessions&#=
8221;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">(as
 enabling this on IBGP session does not provide improvement compared to the=
 default &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221;.)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">And
 I would rather move that sentence at the end of the first paragraph. As th=
is solution is only useful when the recommended approach is not used (deplo=
y first on all IBGP sessions, then you can use large message within the AS =
and/or enable extended message capability
 over EBGP sessions&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">/
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">Please let me know I understand your suggested chan=
ges.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 Looks good. Thanks</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue Hares
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orang=
e.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 15, 2019 5:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D">Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">We now agree that the problem ca=
n happen with existing BGP attributes. Good. So the argument
 to postpone the error handling discussion for future specification definin=
g large attributes does not hold anymore.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Coming back to the draft,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be de=
composed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">As a minor comment, the error is not limited to an (o=
ne single) attribute (type) which size is bigger than 4096
 octets. The error happens when the Total Path Attribute Length (for all at=
tributes) is bigger than 4096 octets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: My understanding of the E=
xtended message draft is that it is not dealing with section
 6.3 of RFC4271. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 I agree. Section 6.3 of RFC4271 handles error when receiving a BGP update =
message. While BGP Extended Message create error when sending a BGP update =
message.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">My
 comment was not related to section 6.3 or RFC 4271, but to the text of dra=
ft-<span class=3D"SpellE">ietf</span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">idr</span>-<sp=
an class=3D"SpellE">bgp</span>-extended-messages which I have cited above. =
I don&#8217;t see what could be unclear in my
 comment.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;Here&#8217;s my understand=
ing of the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">RFC4271 states:<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;All Errors detected while=
 processing the Message header must be indicated by sending a NOTIFICATION
 message with the Message Header error.&nbsp; The Error subcode elaborates =
on the specific nature of the error. &#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">One of the errors is a message h=
eader length:&nbsp; &#8220;If the length field of the message header is
 less than 19 or greater than 4096.&#8221;&nbsp; If any of these super larg=
e attributes causes the message length to be greater than 4096, then with R=
FC4271, the error code sent would be &#8220;Bad Message length.&#8221;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If the message length is switch =
from 4096 to 65535 octets, the RFC4271 error handling would
 allow the message length to be 65,535. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">After the section 6.1 text RF=
C4271 is changed to the following:
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1=
F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno3] Idem, s</span></i></b><b style=3D"m=
so-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:=
#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">ection
 6.1 of RFC4271 handles error when _<span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:ital=
ic">receiving</span>_ a BGP update message. While draft-<span class=3D"Spel=
lE">ietf</span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">idr</span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">bg=
p</span>-extended-messages generate an error
 condition when sending a BGP update.</span></i></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-a=
nsi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If at least o=
ne of the following is true:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">If the Length field of the message header is less tha=
n 19 or greater than 4096
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">for OPEN message,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">If BGP Extended Messages capability is not set, the l=
ength field of any other BGP message other than an OPEN
 message is less than 19 or greater than 4095, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">If the BGP Extended Message capability is set for a B=
GP peer, if the length field is less than 19 or greater
 than 65,535.&nbsp; (See the error handling below for the setting of this f=
unction.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">If the length field of an UPDATE message is less than=
 the minimum field of the UPDATE message, or
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">If the length field of a KEEPALIVE message is not equ=
al to 19, or
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">If the length field of a NOTIFICATION message is less=
 than the minimum length of the NOTIFICATION message.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:64.65pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Then the Error Subcode M=
UST Be set to Bad Message Length.&nbsp; The Data field MUST contain
 the erroneous length field. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;6.9) Ex=
tended Message Capability
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; To advertise the BGP Extended Message Ca=
pability to a peer, a BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; speaker uses BGP Capabilities Advertisem=
ent [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492" title=3D"&quot;Capabil=
ities Advertisement with BGP-4&quot;">RFC5492</a>].&nbsp;
 By<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; advertising the BGP Extended Message Cap=
ability to a peer, a BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; speaker conveys that it is able to send,=
 receive, and properly handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP Extended Messages.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A peer which does not advertise this cap=
ability MUST NOT send BGP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Mess=
ages MUST NOT be sent to it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP Extended Message Capability is a=
 new BGP Capability [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492" title=
=3D"&quot;Capabilities Advertisement with BGP-4&quot;">RFC5492</a>]<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined with Capability code 6 and Capab=
ility length 0.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;6.9.1) O=
peration:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;A BGP speaker that is capable of sending and receiving B=
GP Extended<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Messages SHOULD advertise the BGP Extend=
ed Message Capability to the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; peer using BGP Capabilities Advertisemen=
t [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5492" title=3D"&quot;Capabilit=
ies Advertisement with BGP-4&quot;">RFC5492</a>].&nbsp;
 A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer o=
nly if it has sent and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; received the Extended Message Capability=
 from that peer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; The Extended Message Capability applies =
to all messages except for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; the OPEN message.&nbsp; This exception i=
s made to reduce complexity of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; providing backward compatibility<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">&nbsp;An implementation that advertises support for BGP Extended Mes=
sages<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MUST be capable of receiving a message w=
ith a length up to and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; including 65535 octets.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applications generating information whic=
h might be encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; within BGP messages MUST limit the size =
of their payload to take the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; maximum message size into account.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
<span style=3D"background:aqua;mso-highlight:aqua">If a BGP update with a p=
ayload longer than 4096 octets is received by<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;bac=
kground:aqua;mso-highlight:aqua;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; a BGP=
 listener who has neither advertised nor agreed to accept BGP<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;bac=
kground:aqua;mso-highlight:aqua;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Exten=
ded Messages, the listener MUST treat this as a malformed update<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;bac=
kground:aqua;mso-highlight:aqua;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; messa=
ge, and MUST raise an UPDATE Message Error (see section 6.3).</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting
<span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">an attribute which c=
annot be decomposed to 4096 octets</span> or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:E=
N-US">the error is not limited to an (one single) attribute (type) which si=
ze is bigger than 4096 octets. The error happens when the
 Total Path Attribute Length (for all attributes) is bigger than 4096 octet=
s</span><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-=
style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i=
></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol deve=
lopers and implementers are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; conservative in their application and us=
e of Extended Messages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; 6.9.2 Error Handlin=
g for the Extended messages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">&nbsp;A BGP speaker that has the ability to use Extended Messages bu=
t has<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; not advertised the BGP Extended Messages=
 capability, presumably due<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; to configuration<span style=3D"backgroun=
d:aqua;mso-highlight:aqua">, SHOULD NOT accept an Extended Message.&nbsp;
 A speaker<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;bac=
kground:aqua;mso-highlight:aqua;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY i=
mplement a more liberal policy and accept Extended Messages,</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;=
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; even from a peer to which it has not adv=
ertised the capability, in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; the interest of preserving the BGP sessi=
on if at all possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 The texts highlighted in blue are contradicting. I would suggest removing =
the blue text from =A74 which the behavior is related to error handling con=
ditions described in section 5. (note that your coded text have changed the=
 section numbers. I&#8217;m referring to
 the section numbers in the draft)</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-la=
nguage:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP speaker that does not advertise th=
e BGP Extended Messages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; capability might also genuinely not supp=
ort Extended Messages.&nbsp; Such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; a speaker MUST follow the error handling=
 procedures of section 6.1
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;regarding message length.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 Agreed, but that text is not very logical: you can&#8217;t define a new be=
havior for an old speaker. At minimum, I would propose the following change=
:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-fo=
nt-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD:
</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Such<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; a speaker MUST follow the error handling=
 procedures of section 6.1
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;regarding message length.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-fo=
nt-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US">
 Such<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; a speaker will follow the error handling=
 procedures of [RFC4271] section 6.1
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;regarding message length.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; The inconsistency between the local and =
remote BGP speakers MUST be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; flagged to the network operator through =
standard operational<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; interfaces.&nbsp; The information should=
 include the NLRI and as much<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; relevant information as reasonably possi=
ble.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[End of text change from draft ]=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">As a major comment, I am asking for the specification=
 to specify how it handles that failure, which is not the
 result of a possible bug, but created by design by the solution. It will h=
appen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Your proposition to &#822=
0;raise an alarm&#8221; is required but not sufficient as we still need
 to specify what we do with this &#8220;big&#8221; route. One option could =
be &#8220;treat as withdraw&#8221;, another option suggested by Robert is t=
o propagate the NLRI with subset of attributes plus an indication of the fa=
ilure (&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">a
 short attribute BGP_PIPE_TOO_THIN</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#=
1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8221;). There may be others options.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: Robert&#8217;s opt=
ion is a fine idea, but the WG did not accept this option in the past
 so I cannot force this option into the specification.&nbsp; I hope that Ro=
bert will propose this option again.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><b style=3D"mso-bid=
i-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno3]
 Agreed. I&#8217;m perfectly with &#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221;</span></i=
></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">To trigger the discussion=
 on the resolution, I would propose the following text &#8220;One
 BGP Route too large to be propagated to a BGP receiver not supporting BGP =
Extended Message MUST be handled, over this BGP session, using the Treat-as=
-withdraw approach as defined in [RFC7606]. The BGP speaker MAY, beforehand=
, remove some BGP attributes which
 are eligible to the Attribute discard approach [RFC7606].&#8221;<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]:&nbsp; This text de=
als with section 6.3 in RFC4271, and to my understanding draft-ietf-idr-bgp=
-extended-messges-28.txt
 only deals with section 6.1 of RFC4271.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><b style=3D"mso-bid=
i-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno3]
 I disagree that the text deals with sections 6.3 or 6.1 of RFC 4271. Those=
 sections refers to error handling or _<span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:i=
talic">received</span>_ BGP update, while draft-<span class=3D"SpellE">ietf=
</span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">idr</span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">bgp</span>=
-extended-messages
 create error when _<span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:italic">sending</spa=
n>_ a BGP update.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;In add=
ition, there is no concept of propagation RFC7606 or RFC4271.&nbsp; Each BG=
P peer
 receives BGP messages and updates, it then propagates or sends routes and =
attributes to its peers.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Could I restate your suggestion =
as:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">6.9.2 Error handling
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">(added at the end of the =
current text &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A BGP speaker which peers=
 with some peers with extended message capability and other
 peers without extended message capability, MUST handle a BGP Route (attrib=
ute, NLRI pair) that is too large to be sent to a BGP peer without the exte=
nded message capability using the &#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221; approach =
defined in [RFC7606]. &nbsp;The BGP speaker, MAY
 remove some BGP attributes which are eligible to use the Attribute discard=
 approach [RFC7606].&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><b style=3D"mso-bid=
i-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno3]
 point discussed at the top of you email.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-=
ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">Once error handling is specified, the draft will be a=
ble to discuss
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">the operational considerations for this issue (e.g. T=
he one from RFC7606 could be referenced as-is, or used as
 inspiration)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">the security considerations (as a remote attacker wou=
ld be able to craft a large BGP route that will be withdrawn
 (assuming &#8220;treat-as-withdraw&#8221;) somewhere in some AS, possibly =
creating routing inconsistencies within the AS)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:107.4pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>c.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">the proposed mitigations (e.g., an operator should en=
able support for Extended messages on all IBGP sessions
 first, before enabling it on an EBGP session; If not possible, an operator=
 could define a policy to filter BGP attributes from EBGP sessions, typical=
ly based on their type and size;&#8230;.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">more inline [Bruno2]<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 14, 2019 6:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'; 'John Scudder'; 'Alvaro Re=
tana'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thank you for careful considerat=
ions on the use case.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think we have translation issues between
 our &#8220;English&#8221; language again so I have tried to be precise in =
the detailed comments. &nbsp;I&#8217;ve summarized my comments as well to h=
elp us take the next step.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Summary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Good catch on the 1000 large BGP=
 communities blowing up the message size! &nbsp;This is a case where
 a code path could get caught with program error.&nbsp; The error handling =
(section 6.1 in RFC4271 per section 5 in the extended specification) IMHO h=
andles the case where the attribute is longer than the message.&nbsp; &nbsp=
;Please let me know if I&#8217;ve missed something. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] I don&#8217;t think tha=
t section 6.1 of RFC4271 covers this. The problem is not a Message
 Header error handling as a proper BGP implementation would not sent the me=
ssage. (not to mention with inconsistent size).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue2]: OK, but section 6.1 is t=
he only places that this draft changes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 points discussed above</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As I understand it, &nbsp;you ar=
e asking this specification to be expanded to add notes on policies
 on what implementation should do to correctly combine RFC4271 length sizes=
 with extended length sizes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The implementers and operations pe=
ople commented earlier that this should not be in the protocol specificatio=
n other than as a brief footnote.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2]An error handling must e=
xist even in the absence of SP policies. The argument related
 to previous discussions does not hold IMHO as I&#8217;ve raised a new poin=
t (this happens with existing BGP attributes, not in a hypothetical new att=
ribute)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue2]:&nbsp; Thank you for send=
ing your text.&nbsp; I can your comments are on the UPDATE handling process=
es
 based on RFC7606.&nbsp; We were discussing 2 different places in RFC4271. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I agree there is a need for such=
 standardization as BCPs for particular use cases (large communities,
 BESS (EVPN or centralized controller), SPRING, BGP-LS information (see Day=
light comments yesterday), SD-WANs (rtgwg), and SPRING.&nbsp; &nbsp;I think=
 the chairs of the WGs utilizing should consider if there is need for stand=
ardization for a minimal set of policy for
 message sizes for specific use cases.&nbsp;&nbsp; I will be glad to send r=
equest to these WG or to host something in IDR if there is policy that can =
be used across all use cases.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] I don&#8217;t think tha=
t Error handling is to be considered as optional or for future consideratio=
n.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue2]:&nbsp; Based on your prop=
osed text, I can see the value of considering this text at this time.
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno=
3]
 Thanks for considering the error handling for new error conditions introdu=
ced by draft-<span class=3D"SpellE">ietf</span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">idr<=
/span>-<span class=3D"SpellE">bgp</span>-extended-messages-</span></i></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;=
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">To provide a slight expansion to=
 point people in this direction, how about this change to paragraph
 in section 4: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be de=
composed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">New/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which c=
annot be precisely decomposed if it
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large=
 community attribute with 1000 communities.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">[PS &#8211; in American English &#8220;Can not&#8221;=
 is normally concatenated &#8220;cannot&#8221;.]
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] Thanks for the proposit=
ion, but this does not address my concern.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: Thank you for your text &=
#8211; I understand why now.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 bruno.decraene@orange.com [mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 14, 2019 3:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D">Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks for the reply. Please see=
 inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><b><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</=
span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org; 'Jakob Heitz (jheitz)'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I&#8217;d like to answer some o=
f the questions you sent Randy based on comments (public and private)
 the chairs and I as the shepherd received on this draft in our last WG LCs=
.. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Several of the comments you que=
stioned were put in to answer other questions.&nbsp;&nbsp; This gets into
 a catch-22&#8230; problem &#8211; where you put changes in for one person/=
take out the changes out for another.&nbsp; In academic circles this is cal=
led the reviewer #2 problem (reviewer 1 insists changes go in, reviewer 2 i=
nsists changes go out) during publication. &nbsp;Therefore,
 I&#8217;m I am going to answer most of your questions where this is the ca=
se.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I believe that Randy has new ve=
rsion with the changes I&#8217;ve indicated.&nbsp; I&#8217;m hoping he&#821=
7;ll just
 post that version.&nbsp; AFAILK, we do have 2 compliant implementations. <=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&lt;shepherd hat on&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This draft&#8217;s technology p=
rovides efficient processing for some application by allow a huge
 BGP message size. &nbsp;Whether &#8220;chunking&#8221; BGP to 4096 byte me=
ssages or packing large amounts of data into 65,000 byte message is more ef=
fective for a particular application is something only an implementer of a =
particular BGP implementation &nbsp;can decide. &nbsp;&nbsp;This
 draft simply gives freedom for applications to not be restrict to an artif=
icially small message size.&nbsp; The market place will choose whether this=
 technology is used or not.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As Jakob pointed out, changing =
a highly tuned BGP implementation which &#8220;chunks&#8221; BGP data into
 4096 byte messages may involve substantial rework of the implementation.&n=
bsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">(snip)
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orange=
..com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2019 13:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" s=
tyle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hi WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please
 find below some comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As
 of today, I don&#8217;t believe this specification is ready to be progress=
ed to IESG/RFC, especially for a document
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>updating RFC 4271 (core BGP spec).=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; The WG chairs intend to forwar=
d this draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"5" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"636" style=3D"width:476.9pt;mso-cellspacing:3.7pt;margin-le=
ft:106.2pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a hr=
ef=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-%3eim=
plementations">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-exten=
ded-&gt;implementations</a>
 says : </span>5a <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does not send Extended Message capability <o:p></o:p=
></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I
 may be misunderstanding the implementation report, but my reading of the a=
bove is that none of the reported
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>implementations sends the capabili=
ty hence no implementation supports draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages..
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Here
 this document is updating RFC 4271, so it is not a minor extension for a n=
iche use case. So I don&#8217;t see the
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>arguments for not requiring the ID=
R&#8217;s usual two interoperable implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;In our mail thread, we disc=
overed that the implementation report should have indicate<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;full support.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=
&#8217;m waiting for Olivier to update based on the last point, but my unde=
rstanding
 is that <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All implementations have full s=
upport. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] ok, solved</span><=
/i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A7
 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;
 As BGP is extended to support newer AFI/SAFIs and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
 newer capabilities (e.g., [</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol" title=
=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol</span></a></span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">]),
 there is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
 a need to extend the maximum message size beyond 4096 octets.&nbsp; &#8220=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#section-1</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f..org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27#ref-I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpse=
c-protocol" title=3D"&quot;BGPSEC Protocol Specification&quot;"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I-D.ietf-sidr-bgpsec-protocol<=
/span></a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">is now RFC 8205 (t=
hanks for updating the reference). It has removed the normative/any
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>reference to draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ex=
tended-messages. So presumably BGP Sec does not need draft-ietf-idr-bgp-<sp=
an style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>extended-messages.<span style=3D"colo=
r:#1F497D">
</span>Can we have an update on this?<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"> &nbsp;<=
/span>Can the introduction of
<span style=3D"color:black">draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages </span><sp=
an style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span style=3D"color:black">be update=
d to introduce on the real reasons/needs?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">SIDR gave up waiting on IDR&#82=
17;s work and took a reduced size of encryption.&nbsp;&nbsp; The security p=
eople
 were very sad about the reduction.&nbsp; How is this working in practice? =
WG sidrops can answer this question.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The real problem is there is fi=
nite message space.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] So too bad the dra=
ft does not solve the real problem ;-) (as message space is
 still limited)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: The message is still fini=
te (smile), &nbsp;but I hope 65,635 (smile) is probably enough for
 10 years.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">There are two ways to send lots=
 of BGP routes and/or attributes &#8211; to &#8220;chunk&#8221; these into =
small
 message sizes or place these into a large message.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Some =
applications may always want to &#8220;chunk&#8221; into message sizes smal=
ler than 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;Some application make work more efficiently util=
izing large message size. &nbsp;As the potential number of NLRI and BGP att=
ributes
 grows, new applications may consider large message sizes to a more reasona=
ble way to exchange amounts of BGP data.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The decision on how to send BGP=
 messages over the wire is a peer-by-peer decision in a network.&nbsp;
 &nbsp;Each BGP peer is in charge of reformatting the BGP message it sends =
to the remote BGP peer.&nbsp;&nbsp; The BGP capabilities in this draft repr=
esent an agreement between two BGP peers. &nbsp;These are facts of basic BG=
P implementations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] Let&#8217;s take t=
he example of a BGP Route Reflector having a mixed of clients, some
 supporting Extend Message (EM) and some not.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From an EM client, it rece=
ives a BGP update containing one (single) NLRI with an Total
 Path Attribute Length bigger than&nbsp; 4090 byte (e.g. having 1000 large =
communitiess)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Can you explain me how it =
behaves to send this NLRI to an IBGP peer not supporting EM?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]:&nbsp; Gladly&#8230;
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A BGP route reflector (RR-=
A) is peering with each of its BGP clients.&nbsp; &nbsp;It agrees with
 each of its clients (BGP-C1, BGPC2, BGPC3) whether the BGP Extended messag=
es is accepted or not (based on capability announcement).
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Let us assume that BGP-C1 =
does not support extended messages, and &nbsp;BGP-C2 and BGP-C3 do
 support extended messages. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If the policy in RR accept=
s a total path length of 1000 large communities with &nbsp;a single
 NLRI, it may send the BGP attribute via extended communities to BGP-C2 and=
 BGP-C2.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The policy in the RR must =
specify whether:
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo8">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">a)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the &#8220;too long&#8221; attribute pa=
th length must be dropped, or
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo8">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">b)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">the BGP attribute path can be truncated.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This is a policy issue wit=
hin the BGP peer and the network operation staff. &nbsp;Each operator
 may choose to write this policy differently. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] So we agree that =
a new behavior is REQUIRED. The draft does not mention this.
 The ability to change the behavior by policy does not remove the need for =
specifying the error handling.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Rather than specify the nu=
merous cases in the protocol specification, &nbsp;the previous discussions
 (private and public) asked us to trim this information out of the protocol=
 specification.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] Can&#8217;t be ha=
ve a general rule which is good enough to handle the issue? Previous
 discussions seemed based on the fact the error condition would happen for =
future attribute. This is not the case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If you believe this is wor=
thy of a use case draft for the sake of BESS, LSVR, SPRING,
 Grow and others, I will happily WG chair sponsor a draft that can be revie=
wed by all these WGs.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] I believe that th=
is is worthy in this specification.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8211; so I do not believe addi=
ng these facts to Randy&#8217;s draft is useful.&nbsp; In fact, in the prev=
ious
 rounds of review this point was made. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Your question (and perhaps Jakob=
&#8217;s) is whether we have reached a time/place where the &#8220;chunking=
&#8221;
 approach will fail on a peer-by-peer basis? &nbsp;&nbsp;This draft does no=
t make this statement.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The point of this draft is to en=
able more efficient processing by increasing the message size
 for BGP peers that send a lot of data (e.g. BGP-LS) .&nbsp;&nbsp; The choi=
ce to &#8220;chunk&#8221; or stream in large BGP message is an implementati=
on choice for a particular BGP application.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A73 =
says &#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A peer which does not a=
dvertise this capability MUST NOT send BGP<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Extended Messages, and BGP Extended Messages MUST N=
OT be sent to it.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&=
#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[I believe randy accepted this c=
hange with the following text in version 4 [upcoming below]]/.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--------------<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Fine. Text in =A74 should probably b=
e aligned with the above .e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">OLD: </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it ha=
s received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message Capability from that peer.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">A BGP speaker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MAY send Extended Messages to its peer only if it ha=
s sent and received the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Extended Message Capability to and from that peer.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langua=
ge:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-languag=
e:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:=
EN-US">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Applicat=
ions generating information which might be encapsulated<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 within BGP messages MUST limit the size of their payload to take the<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 maximum message size into account.&#8221;<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:=
p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I
 don&#8217;t see what new behavior is been defined here. If there is none, =
I would suggest to remove this sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno &#8211; people asked to pu=
t this text in as an operational warning. &nbsp;At this point, I&#8217;m go=
ing
 to say unless there is harm it should remain.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] OK.</span></i></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 A BGP announcement will, in the normal case, propagate throughout the<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 BGP speaking Internet; and there will undoubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 which do not have the Extended Message capability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 putting an attribute which can not be decomposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
 less in an Extended Message is a likely path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The
 issue is not specific to attributes bigger than 4096 octets, but to BGP me=
ssage whose length is bigger than
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">4096, =
irrespective
 of the size of each attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please
 elaborate on what you mean by </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">an
 attribute which cannot be decomposed to 4096 octets&#8221;<span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">An attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 is an attribute with length 6000 inside of a
 BGP message which requires the entire attribute to be included.&nbsp; &nbs=
p;No such attribute exists today.&nbsp; &nbsp;If a small BGP peers create a=
 &#8220;killer application&#8221; that uses a 6000 byte attribute, the rest=
 of the Internet does not have to use it.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the person
 defining that attribute must carefully specify it must go with Extended BG=
P messages.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] I don&#8217;t thin=
k that I agree with this. E.g. I don&#8217;t see where RFCs 1997 or 8092
 [(large)community] limits the size of their attribute. Hence I don&#8217;t=
 see why you could not have, today (with Extended Message support) , attrib=
utes larger than 4096 octets. Most probably same status for the BGPSec attr=
ibute since they wanted for more space.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: You make a good poi=
nt about the possibility of large communities not limiting the
 size.&nbsp; It is worthy of a change to both the large communities and a f=
ootnote in Randy&#8217;s specification. &nbsp;How about the addition of a s=
ingle sentence to point people in the right direction.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Old/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which can not be de=
composed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">New/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; A BGP announcement will, in the normal c=
ase, propagate throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; BGP speaking Internet; and there will un=
doubtedly be BGP speakers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; which do not have the Extended Message c=
apability.&nbsp; Therefore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; putting an attribute which cannot be dec=
omposed to 4096 octets or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; less in an Extended Message is a likely =
path to routing failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; One example of a valid attribute which c=
annot be precisely decomposed if it
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sent in Extended message is a large=
 community attribute with 1000 communities.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(12,000 bytes).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This text was added during an e=
arlier discussion where the error cases of a large BGP attribute
 was given.&nbsp; The originator of the common could not provide the exact =
description, but we agreed to put this &nbsp;&#8220;warning label&#8221; in=
to the draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is one of the cases where adding/removing te=
xt gets to be problematic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 It is RECOMMENDED that BGP protocol developers and implementers are<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
 conservative in their application and use of Extended Messages.&#8221;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">What
 does this mean exactly? That they don&#8217;t use this extension? <span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;T</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">hat
 they don&#8217;t use this extension unless XX_TO BE SPECIFIED_XX?<span sty=
le=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This warning was text that othe=
r participants asked to be added.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">It is a common sense warning.&n=
bsp; Extended messages are enabled on a peer by peer basis as all
 BGP capabilities are.&nbsp; If you run into a Peer that does not support t=
he larger sizes, the BGP messages will need to be reformatted to the smalle=
r size.&nbsp; &nbsp;Running immediately to the Extended messages as the def=
ault could cause problems.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] I think that the s=
entence could be elaborated. Indicating the problem, how the
 specification partially address it, and how the specification does not add=
ress it.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">In &#8220;Running immediat=
ely to Extended Message&#8221; I don&#8217;t think they that the issue is w=
ith
 &#8220;immediately&#8221;. Whenever you start the transition, your likely =
to run into problems.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: IMHO specification =
specifies how to encode the bytes on the wire and the appropriate
 error handling of the messages.&nbsp; &nbsp;If I have missed something in =
this case, please let me know.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] IMHO specificatio=
ns need to handle error conditions that they create by design.<o:p></o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The specification does not=
 specify the necessary policies implementation should have in
 order to decide what to do in the case of mixed network.&nbsp; &nbsp;The c=
lear indication was this type was not appropriate for the protocol specific=
ation. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Earlier discussion indicat=
ed that these is policy and mechanism specific.&nbsp; It is worthy
 of &#8220;use case or application notes&#8221; written for specific applic=
ations (BESS, SPRING, GROW), but not in the specification.&nbsp; Again, if =
it is significant enough concern for operators and implementers &#8211; it =
would be worthy to have combined use case document besides
 this point. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I&#8217;m happy to sponsor cross-area work o=
n this use case. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&nbsp; Future protocol specifications will need to describe how =
to handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; peers which can only accommodate 4096 octet message=
s..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Why
 is this limited to future specifications? A priori, using existing BGP mec=
hanism (AFI/SAFI, attributes, *
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span>communities) one could exceed the =
size of 4096 octets. How does the BGP speaker supposed to behave in this
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">?&gt;</span>case? This should be described in=
 this specification. Note that this is not a case of error handling, as eve=
ry BGP
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">speaker is behavin=
g as specified.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I fail to see your logic.&nbsp;=
 At this point, all BGP data (AFI/SAFI and attributes) must fit within
 a 4096 message.&nbsp; &nbsp;Therefore, a BGP peer A which connects on link=
 1 to BGP peer B with 4096 message and on link to a BGP peer C with extende=
d messages only has to worry about reformatting the data.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">In the future, the first group =
that defines attribute or an NLRI that does not fit within a
 4096 BGP message and cannot be split, will need to define how that works i=
n the specification.&nbsp; There is no need to refine the current set of sp=
ecifications.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">1) cf above, I believe tha=
t there are existing BGP Attributes which may not fit into a
 bytes 4096 BGP message<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">2)Even in the absence of s=
uch attribute, you have the issue of 2 smaller attributes whose
 cumulative size does not fit into a 4096 bytes message.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The problem is introduced =
by this specification, hence I believe this specification needs
 to specify how to handle this case.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: &nbsp;IHMO the message tr=
ansmission and reception error handling issues are complete in the
 combination of RFC4271 and the extended message section 5. <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">What is not in this specificatio=
n is the policy issues about what happens if you combine 2 smaller
 attributes.&nbsp; For example, if you have a large community attribute of =
400 communities (4800 bytes), you will likely run into problems when combin=
ing with some longer AS path lengths.&nbsp; [4800</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-la=
nguage:EN-US">=E0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-l=
anguage:EN-US">
 5096 bytes is a short jump]. People on the list and in-person argued this =
was policy and implementation specific details.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] It&#8217;s not im=
plementation specific. This is an issue created by the specification.
 Let&#8217;s discuss it in public.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I agree with you that it is extr=
emely useful to the operator community to have this type of
 policy details discussed to see if there is some desire to have common pol=
icies and error communities. &nbsp;&nbsp;It is the type of thing that GROW =
and IDR should be deeply involved for large communities.&nbsp; &nbsp;BESS, =
LSVR, SPRING and others should consider what policy
 should be adapted for their applications. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Depending
 on the above specification, a section describing the operational consequen=
ces in a network (such as the
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Intern=
et, BGP
 Enabled ServiceS/VPN networks) is probably needed. Possible consequences c=
ould be BGP NLRI
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">being =
removed
 in the middle of such network, or (extended) community (such as Route Targ=
ets) been removed.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Both h=
aving significant
 consequences on the availability provided by the network.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">At this point, there are no att=
ributes or NLRI groupings that do not fit within 4096.&nbsp; &nbsp;If
 you define one (as SIDR did), then you will need to have it reviewed by ID=
R, BESS, SPRING, and operational groups (GROW, etc).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] no, cf above.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Sue]: &nbsp;Thank you for=
 reminding me of the potential of large communities to blow up BGP.
 &nbsp;I have a new worry to add to my BGP concerns list! <o:p></o:p></span=
></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] IMHO, the problem=
 is more with Extended Message than with large community. And
 we can work to consider and address this problem.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A74<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD:
 The Extended Message Capability only applies to all messages except for th=
e <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
&gt;</span>OPEN message. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Probab=
ly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW:
 The Extended Message Capability applies to all message types except for th=
e <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
&gt;</span>OPEN message (type 1). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">----<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">=A78<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&#8220;This extension to BGP does not =
change BGP's underlying security issues&nbsp;=BB<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Before evaluating this, I think this d=
ocument should first specified how a BGP <span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p=
></o:p></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">messages bigger than 4096 octets is ha=
ndled when it needs to be sent to a <span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:=
p></span></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">received not suppor=
ting this extension.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Nits:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">OLD&nb=
sp;:
 to reduce compexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">NEW&nb=
sp;:
 to reduce complexity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><b><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</=
span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i=
dr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Last Call on Extened Message Support<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG LC on Exten=
ded Message Support for BGP (draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages-27).&nbsp;
 You can access the draft at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://datatracker.iet=
f..org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-messages/</span></a></span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The authors should indicate whether=
 they know of any IPR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Implementers are encouraged to update
 the&nbsp; implementation data at: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/=
wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://trac.i=
etf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-extended-implementations</span></a=
></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The draft provides a means for expa=
nding the BGP message to 65535 octets for all messages except
 OPEN messages.&nbsp; BGP message space is running short for all of the pot=
ential attributes or additions proposed by BGP-LS features.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The WG chairs intend to forward thi=
s draft to the IESG with the current level of implementation.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">As you comment on the draft, please=
 consider if: a) the technology is mature, b) the additional
 space in a BGP message would be helpful for those deploying BGP-LS or SR, =
and c) if the specification is ready for publication.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Sue Hares (WG Chair, Shepherd)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=
Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">______________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des =
informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisati=
on. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces joi=
ntes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a et=
e altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">This message and its attachments may contain confident=
ial or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">they should not be distributed, used or copied without=
 authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">If you have received this email in error, please notif=
y the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for mes=
sages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:106.2pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 2=
29.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.=
2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">_______________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des i=
nformations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisatio=
n. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces join=
tes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete=
 altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">This message and its attachments may contain confidenti=
al or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">If you have received this email in error, please notify=
 the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for mess=
ages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">_______________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des i=
nformations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisatio=
n. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces join=
tes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete=
 altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">This message and its attachments may contain confidenti=
al or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">If you have received this email in error, please notify=
 the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for mess=
ages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt;tab-stops:45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 22=
9.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2=
pt 687.0pt 732.8pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A489E3592OPEXCAUBM43corp_--


From nobody Fri Feb 22 09:24:18 2019
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-11.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : The BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute
        Authors         : Eric C. Rosen
                          Keyur Patel
                          Gunter Van de Velde
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-11.txt
	Pages           : 41
	Date            : 2019-02-22

Abstract:
   RFC 5512 defines a BGP Path Attribute known as the "Tunnel
   Encapsulation Attribute".  This attribute allows one to specify a set
   of tunnels.  For each such tunnel, the attribute can provide the
   information needed to create the tunnel and the corresponding
   encapsulation header.  The attribute can also provide information
   that aids in choosing whether a particular packet is to be sent
   through a particular tunnel.  RFC 5512 states that the attribute is
   only carried in BGP UPDATEs that have the "Encapsulation Subsequent
   Address Family (Encapsulation SAFI)".  This document deprecates the
   Encapsulation SAFI (which has never been used in production), and
   specifies semantics for the attribute when it is carried in UPDATEs
   of certain other SAFIs.  This document adds support for additional
   tunnel types, and allows a remote tunnel endpoint address to be
   specified for each tunnel.  This document also provides support for
   specifying fields of any inner or outer encapsulations that may be
   used by a particular tunnel.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5512.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps/

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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : BGP YANG Model for Service Provider Networks
        Authors         : Keyur Patel
                          Mahesh Jethanandani
                          Susan Hares
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-04.txt
	Pages           : 138
	Date            : 2019-02-26

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model for configuring and managing
   BGP, including protocol, policy, and operational aspects based on
   data center, carrier and content provider operational requirements.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model/

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This update of the draft adds support for:

- augmentation of the Routing Management Model.
- augmentation of the routing policy model
- support for RIB

Comments welcome.

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 10:16 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : BGP YANG Model for Service Provider Networks
>        Authors         : Keyur Patel
>                          Mahesh Jethanandani
>                          Susan Hares
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-04.txt
> 	Pages           : 138
> 	Date            : 2019-02-26
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document defines a YANG data model for configuring and managing
>   BGP, including protocol, policy, and operational aspects based on
>   data center, carrier and content provider operational requirements.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-04
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-04
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-04
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




From nobody Tue Feb 26 19:19:53 2019
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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-10.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Distribution of Traffic Engineering (TE) Policies and State using BGP-LS
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Ketan Talaulikar
                          Jie Dong
                          Mach(Guoyi) Chen
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Jeff Tantsura
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-10.txt
	Pages           : 48
	Date            : 2019-02-26

Abstract:
   This document describes a mechanism to collect the Traffic
   Engineering and Policy information that is locally available in a
   node and advertise it into BGP Link State (BGP-LS) updates.  Such
   information can be used by external components for path computation,
   re-optimization, service placement, network visualization, etc.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-te-lsp-distribution-10


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Subject: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-12.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules
        Authors         : Susan Hares
                          Christoph Loibl
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Danny McPherson
                          Martin Bacher
	Filename        : draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-12.txt
	Pages           : 34
	Date            : 2019-02-27

Abstract:
   This document defines a Border Gateway Protocol Network Layer
   Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) encoding format that can be used
   to distribute traffic Flow Specifications.  This allows the routing
   system to propagate information regarding more specific components of
   the traffic aggregate defined by an IP destination prefix.

   It specifies IPv4 traffic Flow Specifications via a BGP NLRI which
   carries traffic Flow Specification filter, and an Extended community
   value which encodes actions a routing system can take if the packet
   matches the traffic flow filters.  The flow filters and the actions
   are processed in a fixed order.  Other drafts specify IPv6, MPLS
   addresses, L2VPN addresses, and NV03 encapsulation of IP addresses.

   This document obsoletes RFC5575 and RFC7674 to correct unclear
   specifications in the flow filters.

   Applications which use the bgp Flow Specification are: 1) application
   which automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such
   as what is required in order to mitigate (distributed) denial-of-
   service attacks; 2) applications which control traffic filtering in
   the context of a BGP/MPLS VPN service, and 3) applications with
   centralized control of traffic in a SDN or NFV context.  Some
   deployments of these three applications can be handled by the strict
   ordering of the BGP NLRI traffic flow filters, and the strict actions
   encoded in the extended community Flow Specification actions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-12
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis-12


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Feb 27 04:26:11 2019
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From: Christoph Loibl <c@tix.at>
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Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis - new version / implementation reports needed
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Hi,

As I promised I uploaded a new version of draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis. =
This solves all the known problems on my list:

*) Unrestricted traffic action interference according to discussion.
*) corner cases in comparison (always true/false cases) follows boolean =
operation/implementations according to discussion.
*) Updates in the changes to rfc5575 summary section - to reflect the =
latest changes

IMPLEMENTATION REPORTS *needed*:

This is also a general call for implementation reports. I created a wiki =
page for this manner at=20

	=
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-rfc5575bis%20implementation=
s

I very much appreciated if you can contribute to this page and add your =
implementation!

Cheers Christoph

--=20
Christoph Loibl
c@tix.at | CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID: 0x4B2C0055 | http://www.nextlayer.at




--Apple-Mail=_D68B35BA-1617-4E56-A549-54680619B80A
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As I =
promised I uploaded a new version of&nbsp;draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis. =
This solves all the known problems on my list:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">*) Unrestricted traffic action =
interference according to discussion.</div><div class=3D"">*) corner =
cases in comparison (always true/false cases) follows boolean =
operation/implementations according to discussion.</div><div class=3D"">*)=
 Updates in the changes to rfc5575 summary section - to reflect the =
latest changes</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">IMPLEMENTATION REPORTS *needed*:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This is also a general call for =
implementation reports. I created a wiki page for this manner =
at&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span><a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-rfc5575bis%20implem=
entations" =
class=3D"">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-rfc5575bis%20imp=
lementations</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I very much appreciated if you can contribute to this page =
and add your implementation!</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Cheers Christoph</div><div class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">--&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Christoph =
Loibl<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:c@tix.at" =
class=3D"">c@tix.at</a>&nbsp;| CL8-RIPE | PGP-Key-ID:&nbsp;0x4B2C0055 =
|&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.nextlayer.at" =
class=3D"">http://www.nextlayer.at</a></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_D68B35BA-1617-4E56-A549-54680619B80A--


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Subject: [Idr] RFC4724: Clarification on Graceful Restart Mechanism for BGP
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--00000000000056b5d10582e3a798
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Hi All,

I see below info in sec 4.2 of RFC4724. Can this be generalized, saying any
capability mismatch?



For example: If add-path capability is not received for some AF in the
re-established session, should

we retain the stale marked routes till EoR and then stale cleanup?



*<snip>*



*4.2.  Procedures for the Receiving Speaker>*

*if a specific address family is not included*

*in the newly received Graceful Restart Capability, or if the Graceful*

*Restart Capability is not received in the re-established session at*

*all, then the Receiving Speaker MUST immediately remove all the stale*

*routes from the peer that it is retaining for that address family.*

*</snip>*



Tulasi.

--00000000000056b5d10582e3a798
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi All,</div><div><br></div><div>


















<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I see below info in sec 4.2 of RFC4=
724. Can this be
generalized, saying any capability mismatch?<span></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">For example: If add-path capability=
 is not received for some
AF in the re-established session, should <br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,sans-serif">we retain the stale marked routes till EoR and then stale cle=
anup? <span></span></p><span></span>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</span></p>

<pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><i><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,sans-serif">&lt;snip&gt;<span></span></span></i></pre><pre style=3D"margi=
n:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><i><=
span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><span=
>=C2=A0</span></span></i></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><i><span style=3D"font-size:9=
pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">4.2.=C2=A0 Procedures for the =
Receiving Speaker&gt;<span></span></span></i></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in=
 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><i><span =
style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">if a speci=
fic address family is not included<span></span></span></i></pre><pre style=
=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;"><i><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-ser=
if">in the newly received Graceful Restart Capability, or if the Graceful<s=
pan></span></span></i></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><i><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;=
font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Restart Capability is not receive=
d in the <b>re-established session at<span></span></b></span></i></pre><pre=
 style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif">all, then the Receiving Speaker MUST immediately remove all th=
e stale<span></span></span></i></b></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.000=
1pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><i><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><b>routes from the p=
eer that it is retaining for that address family.</b><span></span></span></=
i></pre><pre style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;"><i><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">&lt;/snip&gt;<span></span></span></i></pre>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><span>=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Tulasi.<span></span></p>





</div></div>

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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Call for IETF104 IDR agenda items
Thread-Index: AdTP+9uvO5Kq9lSxQCmMt3WjYm1/3g==
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 07:28:19 +0000
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Subject: [Idr] Call for IETF104 IDR agenda items
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Dear all,

The agenda of IETF 104 has been published. IDR will meet twice, the first s=
ession is on Monday Afternoon (16:10-18:10), the second session is on Thurs=
day Morning (10:50-12:20).

Please send any IDR agenda items you have to me and CC the chairs. Please i=
nclude the name of the person who will be presenting, and the estimate time=
 you'll need (including Q/A). You may also indicate which session you would=
 prefer.

If you plan to make a presentation, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, =
"no Internet Draft - no time slot". You should also plan to send your slide=
s to me and CC the chairs no later than 24 hours prior to the IDR meeting, =
though earlier is better. If we don't have your slides by the deadline, you=
 may lose your slot. Please number your slides for the benefit of remote at=
tendees. By default your slides will be converted to PDF and presented from=
 the PDF. If you need to use any fancy builds or transitions, please make s=
ure to arrange this with us in advance. Thanks.

And potential presenters, please take a look at the checklist for presentin=
g at IDR:
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%2=
0at%20an%20IDR%20meeting

Best regards,
Jie


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The agenda of IETF 104 has been=
 published. IDR will meet twice, the first session is on Monday Afternoon (=
16:10-18:10), the second session is on Thursday Morning (10:50-12:20).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please send any IDR agenda item=
s you have to me and CC the chairs. Please include the name of the person w=
ho will be presenting, and the estimate time you'll need (including Q/A). Y=
ou may also indicate which session you
 would prefer. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you plan to make a presentat=
ion, please keep in mind the IDR tradition, &quot;no Internet Draft - no ti=
me slot&quot;. You should also plan to send your slides to me and CC the ch=
airs no later than 24 hours prior to the IDR meeting,
 though earlier is better. If we don't have your slides by the deadline, yo=
u may lose your slot. Please number your slides for the benefit of remote a=
ttendees. By default your slides will be converted to PDF and presented fro=
m the PDF. If you need to use any
 fancy builds or transitions, please make sure to arrange this with us in a=
dvance. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">And potential presenters, pleas=
e take a look at the checklist for presenting at IDR:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://trac.tools.i=
etf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presenting%20at%20an%20IDR%20mee=
ting">https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/trac/wiki/Checklist%20for%20presen=
ting%20at%20an%20IDR%20meeting</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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