From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 9 09:52:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07737 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wiuD-0006Bk-JA for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:51:41 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h89Dpf42023788 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:51:41 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wiuD-0006Bb-GG for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:51:41 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07606 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19witZ-00061Q-W7; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:51:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19witR-00060U-Qi for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:50:53 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07451; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309091350.JAA07451@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ieprep@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:50:45 -0400 Subject: [Ieprep] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group of the IETF. Title : IP Telephony Requirements for Emergency Telecommunication Service Author(s) : K. Carlberg, R. Atkinson Filename : draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2003-9-9 This document presents a list of requirements in support of Emergency Telecommunications Service (ETS) within the context of IP telephony. It is an extension to the general requirements presented in [3]. Solutions to these requirements are not presented in this document. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-9-9092210.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-9-9092210.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 9 10:00:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08546 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wj2M-00070l-NO for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:00:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h89E06gH026952 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:00:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wj2M-00070d-Dt for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:00:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08500 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wj2K-0003E1-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:00:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wj2J-0003Dt-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:00:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wj2J-0006yu-7V; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:00:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wj28-0006y4-5f for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:59:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08479 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wj25-0003DY-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:59:49 -0400 Received: from phobos.simply.net ([81.3.64.11]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wj25-0003Cg-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:59:49 -0400 Received: (qmail 31588 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 13:59:11 -0000 Received: from pool-151-196-122-91.balt.east.verizon.net (HELO albers) (151.196.122.91) by phobos.simply.net with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 13:59:11 -0000 From: "Ken Carlberg" To: Subject: RE: [Ieprep] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:59:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c376da$892187d0$7301a8c0@albers> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200309091350.JAA07451@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI. The latest version of the telephony requirements draft reflects minor changes requested by the AD in order for it to be advanced for review by the IESG. Item 5 of section 3 (Requirements) was revised, and new text in the form of item 2 was added to section 4 (Issues). I forgot to mention that the previous announcement on the General Requirements draft reflected minor changes requested by the IESG. -ken > -----Original Message----- > From: ieprep-admin@ietf.org [mailto:ieprep-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:51 AM > To: IETF-Announce: > Cc: ieprep@ietf.org > Subject: [Ieprep] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Internet Emergency Preparedness Working > Group of the IETF. > > Title : IP Telephony Requirements for Emergency > Telecommunication Service > Author(s) : K. Carlberg, R. Atkinson > Filename : draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2003-9-9 > > This document presents a list of requirements in support of Emergency > Telecommunications Service (ETS) within the context of IP telephony. > It is an extension to the general requirements presented in [3]. > Solutions to these requirements are not presented in this document. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.t xt > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-ets-telephony-06.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Sep 19 21:36:59 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00874 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8K1VhAv020140 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:36:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h7PFMT82015695 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:22:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19rJAq-000452-2f for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:22:28 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23808 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19rJA0-0003kn-Ln; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:21:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19rJ5S-0003In-2m for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:16:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23392 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19rJ5R-0002SN-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:16:53 -0400 Received: from chntnat.dss.dyncorp.com ([131.131.1.250] helo=chntex04.is.dyncorp.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19rJ5Q-0002S4-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:16:52 -0400 Received: by chntex04.is.dyncorp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:14:27 -0400 Message-ID: <5EA16A28B747E34FB90B578E6C5DDE8915AADC@chntex04.is.dyncorp.com> From: "Gunn, Janet" To: "'RJ Atkinson'" , ieprep Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Fwd: [e2e] e2e delay characteristics Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:14:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Are there any statistics, reports, etc. on the traffic impact of the various recent viruses and worms (Sobig, Blaster, Blaster "copies")? For VoIP traffic, even highly localized, very short duration congestion can have a significant impact, so long term, widespread averages do not necessarily tell the whole story. -----Original Message----- From: RJ Atkinson [mailto:rja@extremenetworks.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:53 AM To: ieprep Subject: [Ieprep] Fwd: [e2e] e2e delay characteristics The note below appeared on the IRTF End-to-End RG's public mailing list this morning. Since it provides measured data on delay and congestion in a typical IP backbone, it might be of interest to some folks here. Ran Begin forwarded message: > From: Konstantina Papagiannaki > Date: Mon Aug 18, 2003 18:02:09 America/Montreal > To: Matthew Wright > Cc: end2end-interest@postel.org > Subject: Re: [e2e] e2e delay characteristics > Message-Id: <200308182202.h7IM29r23652@athens.sprintlabs.com> > In-Reply-To: Message from Matthew Wright of > "Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:25:37 EDT." > <200308161225.h7GCPbo14731@gslacks.cs.umass.edu> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > This is not exactly what you are looking for, but it may give you an > idea of > what the delays look like for packets that transit the core of a > backbone > network. At http://ipmon.sprint.com/delaystat/ you can see the > distribution of > delays experienced through the Sprint IP network. Equal Cost MultiPath > generates sometimes distributions with multiple modes, depending on > how many > equal paths exist through the network and what their propagation > delays are > (an example is > http://ipmon.sprint.com/delaystat/delay.php?date=20021121&linkpa > ir=results/20021121/sj-01.0-to-nyc-27.0). There is very little > evidence of > congestion in the core, so if you are looking for congestion and loss, > this > type of statistics are definitely not what you are looking for:-) > > Hope this helps... > > Dina _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Sep 19 22:02:38 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA01448 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8K1VhD9020140 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:37:00 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h7PIGeUN014414 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:16:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19rLtO-0003kA-Gd for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:16:38 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA06739 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19rLso-0003g2-K6; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:16:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19rLl4-00025J-Ns for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:08:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05708 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19rLl2-0005Dn-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:08:00 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-dq.saic.com ([149.8.64.40]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19rLl1-0005Dk-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:07:59 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com by mcl-its-dq.saic.com for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:07:12 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.12]) by mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.21) with SMTP id M2003082514070800451 ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:07:08 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:06:03 -0400 Message-Id: From: "King, Kimberly S." To: "'Gunn, Janet'" , "'RJ Atkinson'" , ieprep Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Fwd: [e2e] e2e delay characteristics Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:07:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Janet, >Are there any statistics, reports, etc. on the traffic >impact of the various >recent viruses and worms (Sobig, Blaster, Blaster "copies")? Excellent information available at http://www.caida.org/ . Kimberly _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Sep 29 22:31:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA22001 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4AID-00016Y-Av for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8U2VD5R004240 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4AID-00016J-63 for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21977 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4AI9-0000at-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4AI9-0000ap-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4AI1-00012y-GY; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:31:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4AHP-00011q-70 for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:30:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21948 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4AHL-0000aB-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:30:19 -0400 Received: from clifden.donelan.com ([199.34.53.180]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4AHL-0000a8-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:30:19 -0400 Received: from sean (helo=localhost) by clifden.donelan.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A4AHM-0000HS-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:30:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:30:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Donelan To: ieprep@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <001101c376da$892187d0$7301a8c0@albers> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Ieprep] The world's biggest data consumers don't think priority is such a big priority Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , "Priority" is a buzzword networking executives use to describe assigning levels of importance to network traffic. The practice is intended to ensure that a company's most important data gets through a crowded connection. But it's a different story for the health care industry and government agencies, whose notoriously large data appetites have created a market for connections 10 times the size of a typical data pipe. Since these customers haven't yet come close to stressing their connection's capacity, they have no need for expensive and hard-to-manage priority systems, AT&T Ethernet Services Director Franco Callocchia said. http://news.com.com/2100-1035_3-5083779.html _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 30 13:33:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03633 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4OMx-0005Q0-Um for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8UHX3aW020827 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4OMx-0005Pq-Rn for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03611 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4OMv-000272-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4OMv-00026z-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4OMv-0005Op-Bw; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4OMS-0005OM-0a for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:32:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03596 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4OMP-00026a-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:32:29 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4OMP-00025g-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:32:29 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.68.223.138) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Sep 2003 10:31:31 -0700 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8UHVvxW017288; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id KAA13341; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030930122546.00baaa58@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:31:52 -0500 To: Sean Donelan , ieprep@ietf.org From: "James M. Polk" Subject: Re: [Ieprep] The world's biggest data consumers don't think priority is such a big priority In-Reply-To: References: <001101c376da$892187d0$7301a8c0@albers> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Just because someone with a lofty title said it - it doesn't make what he said right The US Gov and others already employ priority networks; those that don't, haven't moved their time critical applications over to their Ethernet networks (yet) At 10:30 PM 9/29/2003 -0400, Sean Donelan wrote: >"Priority" is a buzzword networking executives use to describe assigning >levels of importance to network traffic. The practice is intended to >ensure that a company's most important data gets through a crowded >connection. > >But it's a different story for the health care industry and government >agencies, whose notoriously large data appetites have created a market for >connections 10 times the size of a typical data pipe. Since these >customers haven't yet come close to stressing their connection's capacity, >they have no need for expensive and hard-to-manage priority systems, AT&T >Ethernet Services Director Franco Callocchia said. > >http://news.com.com/2100-1035_3-5083779.html > > >_______________________________________________ >Ieprep mailing list >Ieprep@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 30 15:54:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12747 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4QZS-0001gv-Lx for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8UJs6Ut006495 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4QZS-0001gf-HN for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12657 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4QZQ-0004GO-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4QZQ-0004GJ-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4QZN-0001ep-Ez; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:54:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4QZF-0001e3-Ts for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12634 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4QZE-0004FZ-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:52 -0400 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4QZD-0004FW-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:51 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com by mclmx.mail.saic.com for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:45 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.12]) by mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003093015534401821 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:44 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:52:28 -0400 Message-Id: From: "King, Kimberly S." To: "'ieprep@ietf.org'" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [Ieprep] working group of potential interest Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Description of Working Group: Lemonade is tasked to provide a set of enhancements and profiles of Internet email submission, transport, and retrieval protocols to facilitate operation on platforms with constrained resources, or communications links with high latency or limited bandwidth. http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/lemonade-charter.html _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 30 17:15:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16208 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Rpp-0006N8-1P for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8ULF5q1024490 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Rpo-0006Mv-TS for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16200 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Rpm-0005SB-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Rpm-0005S8-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Rpl-0006M0-Nm; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Ros-0006L8-JH for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:14:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16169 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Roq-0005Qp-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:14:04 -0400 Received: from gnat.inet.org ([63.108.254.91]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Rop-0005QU-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:14:03 -0400 Received: from extremenetworks.com (unknown [10.0.8.144]) by gnat.inet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0826E67116; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ieprep] The world's biggest data consumers don't think priority is such a big priority Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: Sean Donelan , ieprep@ietf.org To: "James M. Polk" From: RJ Atkinson In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030930122546.00baaa58@localhost> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003, at 13:31 America/Montreal, James M. Polk wrote: > Just because someone with a lofty title said it - it doesn't make what > he said right The term "right" is highly subjective. Reasonable people could have different values for "right" in any number of circumstances. The quote that Sean supplied is quite useful, IMHO, because it explains what the commercial marketplace (in the form of at least one major service provider) believes is needed and practical. If you find published quotes from other service providers with different views, you are certainly free to post them for perusal, but jumping on Sean that way is excessive. > The US Gov and others already employ priority networks; those that > don't, haven't moved their time critical applications over to their > Ethernet networks (yet) Your claim is far too bold, hence untrue. All of our time-critical applications run over Ethernet (using our own equipment). I seriously doubt that you are as omniscient as your claim would require. Some organisations do run time-critical apps over Ethernet. No doubt, there are some organisations that do not. And the US DoD, in the form of the currently deployed DISN, does NOT use priority in its IP networks (specifically NIPRnet, SIPRnet), according to the folks that operate those networks. Those folks further say that the US DoD JCS has *prohibited* deployment of prioritisation in DoD IP networks (unless a JCS waiver is obtained; DISA network ops folks tell me they do not have such a waiver). My own experience is that the USG is sufficiently large that it almost never has a single perspective on any networking topic, but instead has a myriad of views in its different component organisations. Ran Atkinson rja@extremenetworks.com Disclaimer: Employed by, but not speaking for, Extreme Networks. _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 30 17:25:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16569 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4RzU-00070L-LZ for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8ULP4JF026919 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4RzU-000706-H0 for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16557 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4RzS-0005Y4-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4RzR-0005Xz-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4RzS-0006yY-Qp; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4RzI-0006xT-2x for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:24:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16547 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4RzF-0005Xn-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:24:49 -0400 Received: from gnat.inet.org ([63.108.254.91]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4RzE-0005Xk-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:24:48 -0400 Received: from extremenetworks.com (unknown [10.0.8.144]) by gnat.inet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761AA67124 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:24:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ieprep] The world's biggest data consumers don't think priority is such a big priority Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: RJ Atkinson To: ieprep Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <8417317B-F38C-11D7-BC1C-00039357A82A@extremenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003, at 17:13 America/Montreal, RJ Atkinson wrote: > All of our time-critical applications run over Ethernet (using our own > equipment). I seriously doubt that you are as omniscient as your > claim would require. Some organisations do run time-critical apps > over Ethernet. No doubt, there are some organisations that do not. Just to be clear: Some folks regularly do run time-critical apps over Ethernet, *without enabling any sort of prioritisation*. A well-engineered switched Ethernet infrastructure can provide tremendous predictability and excellent operational characteristics without enabling any form of prioritisation. This is particularly true for modern Ethernet, where switching is most commonly deployed, the low cost of high-speed Ethernet kit makes it economical to over-provision capacity, and a variety of ring technologies exist for resilience. Yours, Ran _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 30 19:48:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21330 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4UDs-0005U4-DC for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8UNm483021074 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4UDs-0005Tp-9P for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21310 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4UDq-0006rS-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4UDq-0006rP-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4UDp-0005Ss-9r; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4UDG-0005SX-Ht for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:47:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21289 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4UDE-0006qu-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:47:24 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4UDE-0006qV-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:47:24 -0400 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8UNkqXg019321; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id QAA05632; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030930183644.0267fee8@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:46:50 -0500 To: RJ Atkinson From: "James M. Polk" Subject: Re: [Ieprep] The world's biggest data consumers don't think priority is such a big priority Cc: Sean Donelan , ieprep@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030930122546.00baaa58@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Ran Needless to say, I completely disagree with your position and don't rely on quotes from people I don't know (like you do apparently) to get my information. I like first hand knowledge. I feel that any further reaction would not be in this list's best interest (a rat hole) - but am available to talk during, before, or after our meeting in Minneapolis at whatever length you wish about this BTW - I was at no time getting on Sean for what he sent to the list - I was merely reacting to the quoted person's claim that prioritization in IP was not necessary. I actually appreciate reading that someone said this (therefore - Thank you Sean for sending this to the list!) At 05:13 PM 9/30/2003 -0400, RJ Atkinson wrote: >On Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003, at 13:31 America/Montreal, James M. Polk wrote: >>Just because someone with a lofty title said it - it doesn't make what he >>said right > >The term "right" is highly subjective. Reasonable people could have >different values for "right" in any number of circumstances. The quote >that Sean supplied is quite useful, IMHO, because it explains what the >commercial marketplace (in the form of at least one major service provider) >believes is needed and practical. If you find published quotes from >other service providers with different views, you are certainly free >to post them for perusal, but jumping on Sean that way is excessive. > >>The US Gov and others already employ priority networks; those that don't, >>haven't moved their time critical applications over to their Ethernet >>networks (yet) > >Your claim is far too bold, hence untrue. > >All of our time-critical applications run over Ethernet (using our own >equipment). I seriously doubt that you are as omniscient as your >claim would require. Some organisations do run time-critical apps >over Ethernet. No doubt, there are some organisations that do not. > >And the US DoD, in the form of the currently deployed DISN, does NOT >use priority in its IP networks (specifically NIPRnet, SIPRnet), >according to the folks that operate those networks. Those folks >further say that the US DoD JCS has *prohibited* deployment of >prioritisation in DoD IP networks (unless a JCS waiver is obtained; >DISA network ops folks tell me they do not have such a waiver). > >My own experience is that the USG is sufficiently large that it >almost never has a single perspective on any networking topic, >but instead has a myriad of views in its different component >organisations. > >Ran Atkinson >rja@extremenetworks.com > >Disclaimer: Employed by, but not speaking for, Extreme Networks. > > >_______________________________________________ >Ieprep mailing list >Ieprep@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 30 23:59:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA28143 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Y8r-0001qc-JD for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h913x99g007096 for ieprep-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Y8r-0001qA-DC for ieprep-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA28099 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Y8o-0001P2-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Y8o-0001Oy-00 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Y8j-0001jj-Kq; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:59:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Y8M-0001fT-5W for ieprep@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:58:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA28040 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:58:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mpierce1@aol.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Y8J-0001OB-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:58:35 -0400 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Y8J-0001Nf-00 for ieprep@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:58:35 -0400 Received: from Mpierce1@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id j.192.206be9e6 (14374); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <192.206be9e6.2cabaa46@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:55:50 EDT Subject: Re: [Ieprep] The world's biggest data consumers don't think priority is such ... To: rja@extremenetworks.com, jmpolk@cisco.com CC: sean@donelan.com, ieprep@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_192.206be9e6.2cabaa46_boundary" X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 10501 Sender: ieprep-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --part1_192.206be9e6.2cabaa46_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/30/2003 5:15:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, rja@extremenetworks.com writes: > Those folks > further say that the US DoD JCS has *prohibited* deployment of > prioritisation in DoD IP networks (unless a JCS waiver is obtained; > DISA network ops folks tell me they do not have such a waiver). > The words in the above statemet seem to have been jumbled. To correct the word order: The JCS has prohibited further deployment of IP networks (for mission critical communications) until the necessary prioritization is possible. They do not have such a waiver. I don't think that the "ops folks" are the ones to be telling you what the requirements are for the future. I think they tend to think and concern themselves with what is currently in use. You need to talk to the standards people and those planning the future networks. Mike Pierce --part1_192.206be9e6.2cabaa46_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 9/30/2= 003 5:15:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, rja@extremenetworks.com writes:


Those folks
further say that the US DoD JCS has *prohibited* deployment of
prioritisation in DoD IP networks (unless a JCS waiver is obtained;
DISA network ops folks tell me they do not have such a waiver).


The words in the above statemet seem to have been jumbled. To correct th= e word order: The JCS has prohibited further deployment of IP networks (for=20= mission critical communications) until the necessary prioritization is possi= ble. They do not have such a waiver.

I don't think that the "ops folks" are the ones to be telling you what t= he requirements are for the future. I think they tend to think and concern t= hemselves with what is currently in use. You need to talk to the standards p= eople and those planning the future networks.

Mike Pierce
--part1_192.206be9e6.2cabaa46_boundary-- _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep