From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 7 16:34:37 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23390 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:34:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyGqF-00061z-Gq for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:54:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyGJ9-0001xP-7r; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:20:35 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyFhU-00051t-8S; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:41:40 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11721; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:41:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502072041.PAA11721@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:41:37 -0500 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: ieprep@ietf.org Subject: [Ieprep] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-frame-04.txt X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Supporting Emergency Telecommunications Services (ETS) Within a Single Administrative Domain Author(s) : K. Carlberg Filename : draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-frame-04.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2005-2-7 This document presents a framework discussing the role of various protocols and mechanisms that could be considered candidates for supporting Emergency Telecommunication Services (ETS) within a single administrative domain. Comments about their potential usage as well as their current deployment are provided to the reader. Specific solutions are not presented. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-frame-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-frame-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-frame-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep --NextPart-- From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 7 16:38:43 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24539 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:38:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyGuD-0006LZ-Mm for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:58:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyGJL-0002EG-RT; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:20:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyFhz-0005GQ-Vh; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:42:12 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11845; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:42:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502072042.PAA11845@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:42:09 -0500 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: ieprep@ietf.org Subject: [Ieprep] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-req-04.txt X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group of the IETF. Title : Emergency Telecommunications Services (ETS) Requirements for a Single Administrative Domain Author(s) : K. Carlberg Filename : draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-req-04.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2005-2-7 This document presents a list of requirements in support of Emergency Telecommunications Service (ETS) within a single administrative domain. This document is an extension of the General Requirements of [rfc3689] and focuses on a more specific set of administrative constraints and scope. Solutions to these requirements are not presented in this document. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-req-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-req-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-domain-req-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep --NextPart-- From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 22 23:01:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA27140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3o5H-0007HB-VO for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:25:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3UEo-0002iE-BR; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 02:13:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3MDA-0001xD-0R for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23563 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw3a.lmco.com ([192.35.35.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3MZQ-0007Fq-OR for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:02:30 -0500 Received: from emss04g01.ems.lmco.com (relay4.ems.lmco.com [166.17.13.122]) by mailgw3a.lmco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1LMdKrx021919 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30884) id <0ICA00K019LKIY@lmco.com> for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from EMSS04I00.us.lmco.com ([166.17.13.135]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30884) with ESMTP id <0ICA00F279LKMQ@lmco.com> for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from EMSS04M14.us.lmco.com ([162.16.20.50]) by EMSS04I00.us.lmco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:39:19 -0500 From: "Bose, Pratik" To: ieprep@ietf.org Message-id: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Thread-Topic: Discussion on Charter Thread-Index: AcUYZi2+2xlbyeqhRbC5NNL9/Gjh4w== content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2005 22:39:19.0824 (UTC) FILETIME=[2EA54100:01C51866] X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To the IEPREP List Members and WG Chairs, In the past few IETFs, there has been a growing movement to standardize the following capabilities via updates to existing standards or new internet drafts: - Preemption of Inelastic traffic sessions - Routing and QoS for nested VPNs - MLPP/GETS capabilities for application protocols like SIP, and signaling protocols like RSVP - etc. targeting the emergency preparedness of standards based civilian and military networks. However, there is a no single home for this effort till date and any activity currently has been following the route of vetting at IEPREP and then WG acceptance in different WGs (for ex, SIPPING, TSVWG etc.) In the interest of various vendors, system integrators (for ex. like my employer Lockheed Martin), as well as end customers (usually various governments) who are developing these solutions, it would be efficient to either recharter IEPREP so that it itself can standardize such capabilities or consider the formation of a new WG which can address this particular area. It would be good if we can broach the above topic in mailing list discussions and at the next WG meeting. Thanks, Pratik _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 17:50:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04479 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:50:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D45i0-0006cW-Lx for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:14:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3t9G-0001k4-J5; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:49:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3t9A-0001iR-Jq for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:49:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA23938 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:49:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk ([128.16.5.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3tVh-0004rN-Ap for ieprep@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:12:52 -0500 Received: from 82-35-45-103.cable.ubr02.camd.blueyonder.co.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with UK SMTP id ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:49:08 +0000 Message-ID: <421C5183.3050504@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:48:51 +0000 From: Ian Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bose, Pratik" Subject: Re: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter References: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> In-Reply-To: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.86.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pratik - this has been a long-running debate. But it does seem logical to have the experts on a particular protocol (the responsible Working Group) be involved in any updates that are required to provide these capabilities. Given that the WGs conduct the vast majority of their work by e-mail, and meet at the physical IETF meetings three times a year, would it be particularly more efficient to try to gather all of this expertise in one place, whether a rechartered IEPREP or a new WG? _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 18:16:27 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10601 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:16:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D466r-0008EN-Cd for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:40:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3w7x-0006wV-9l; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:00:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3w7t-0006w1-Hs for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:00:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13071 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:00:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502231300.IAA13071@ietf.org> Received: from phobos.simply.net ([81.3.64.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3wUI-0001fs-VD for ieprep@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:23:38 -0500 Received: (qmail 19430 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2005 12:59:34 -0000 Received: from pcp08471369pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net (HELO albers) (69.138.76.154) by phobos.simply.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2005 12:59:34 -0000 From: "Ken Carlberg" To: "'Bose, Pratik'" Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:59:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcUYZi2+2xlbyeqhRbC5NNL9/Gjh4wBP077Q In-Reply-To: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Traditionally, the strongest form of persuasion in the IETF is to have an actual draft-RFC from which others can comment on, and in this case, decide whether the document is a reasonable starting point to re-charter a group (or if it should go into another group, remain an individual submission, or simply expire). the rare exception that comes to mind is the MANET wg, which recently migrated its charter from experimental work to proposed standards. But I doubt that the exception will change the tradition. If there are specific draft(s) that you'd like to put forth that would cover the following, I'd encourage you or others to submit them. > - Preemption of Inelastic traffic sessions > - Routing and QoS for nested VPNs > - MLPP/GETS capabilities for application protocols like SIP, and > signaling protocols like RSVP > - etc. cheers, -ken _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 20:21:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA10909 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:21:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D483R-0000Sw-5y for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:44:40 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D45jA-0004Zk-TW; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:15:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D45j9-0004Zc-BN for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:15:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10327 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:15:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D465w-00088u-03 for ieprep@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:39:04 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2005 15:28:20 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,111,1107763200"; d="scan'208"; a="616394174:sNHT24377936" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1NNF8uC003721; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from CSCOAMERA19540.cisco.com (stealth-10-32-244-219.cisco.com [10.32.244.219]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BCC48826; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:15:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223150340.057cbd00@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:11:44 -0800 To: Ian Brown From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter In-Reply-To: <421C5183.3050504@cs.ucl.ac.uk> References: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> <421C5183.3050504@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 At 09:48 AM 02/23/05 +0000, Ian Brown wrote: >Pratik - this has been a long-running debate. But it does seem logical to >have the experts on a particular protocol (the responsible Working Group) >be involved in any updates that are required to provide these >capabilities. Given that the WGs conduct the vast majority of their work >by e-mail, and meet at the physical IETF meetings three times a year, >would it be particularly more efficient to try to gather all of this >expertise in one place, whether a rechartered IEPREP or a new WG? From my perspective, it might be. Related work is going on in a variety of places right now. Some relates to RSVP, to MPLS, to diffserv code points, to SIP, and IIRC a few other things. The RSVP and diffserv WGs are right now dormant, and the other working groups find this rather peripheral to their central foci. If they can each severally sit down and get something done, fine. But consider: - the SIP work was originally proposed in Adeliade, five years ago - the RSVP work builds on work that was finished in 1998, and the WG has been closed since then - NSIS work, if one chooses that route, is proposed, but at this point very sketchy - Diffserv has likewise been closed for at least two years - We have discussed parts of it with TSVWG, but it is just a few weeks ago that they decided to even consider responding to it by allowing the documents to become WG drafts So putting together a WG - whether ieprep with an appropriately changed charter or something new - that can focus on this problem and put out a solution seems more likely to actually produce a result within our lifetime than waiting for WGs that don't exist or don't care to decide it is important. YMMV _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 22:03:32 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA18104 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:03:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D49ef-00037x-E0 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:27:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D46R9-0007Wz-2Z; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:00:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D46R7-0007WJ-M9 for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:00:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA18674 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D46nt-00023m-MO for ieprep@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:24:31 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2005 17:15:20 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,111,1107734400"; d="scan'208"; a="228513910:sNHT20680770" Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1O00guC028768; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id QAA07052; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:00:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050223175723.039d2140@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:00:51 -0600 To: "Ken Carlberg" , "'Bose, Pratik'" From: "James M. Polk" Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter In-Reply-To: <200502231300.IAA13071@ietf.org> References: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 At 07:59 AM 2/23/2005 -0500, Ken Carlberg wrote: >Traditionally, the strongest form of persuasion in the IETF is to have an >actual draft-RFC from which others can comment on, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-mlpp-that-works-00.txt covers nearly all of the list below, as well as some other topics, and versions of this ID have been around for a year. ;-) apologies if this seems to be late, as it's late Wednesday and I'm still only receiving messages from yesterday from ieft.org (and nothing from the 23rd yet) > > - Preemption of Inelastic traffic sessions > > - Routing and QoS for nested VPNs > > - MLPP/GETS capabilities for application protocols like SIP, and > > signaling protocols like RSVP > > - etc. > >cheers, > >-ken > > > >_______________________________________________ >Ieprep mailing list >Ieprep@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 22:17:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23387 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:17:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D49sG-0004fc-2r for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:41:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D45sz-0001Vs-1Q; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:25:41 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D45sx-0001Uq-Ep for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:25:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12659 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D46Fk-0000H0-02 for ieprep@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:49:12 -0500 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2005 16:40:03 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,111,1107734400"; d="scan'208"; a="228500633:sNHT23748020" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1NNPEq8022362; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from CSCOAMERA19540.cisco.com (stealth-10-32-244-219.cisco.com [10.32.244.219]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BCC50108; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:25:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223152215.05897510@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:25:12 -0800 To: "Ken Carlberg" From: Fred Baker Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter In-Reply-To: <200502231300.IAA13071@ietf.org> References: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> <200502231300.IAA13071@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 At 07:59 AM 02/23/05 -0500, Ken Carlberg wrote: >Traditionally, the strongest form of persuasion in the IETF is to have an >actual draft-RFC from which others can comment on, and in this case, >decide whether the document is a reasonable starting point to re-charter a >group (or if it should go into another group, remain an individual >submission, or simply expire). Would that be anything like: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-nested-vpn-routing-00.txt "Routing in a Nested VPN", Fred Baker, 14-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-signaled-preemption-02.txt "QoS Signaling in a Nested Virtual Private Network", Fred Baker, 14-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chan-tsvwg-diffserv-class-aggr-01.txt "Aggregation of DiffServ Service Classes", Kwok Ho Chan, 21-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sip-resource-priority-05.txt "Communications Resource Priority for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)", Henning Schulzrinne, James Polk, 26-Oct-04, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-02.txt "Extending the Session Initiation Protocol Reason Header for Preemption Events", James Polk, 25-Aug-04, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-diffserv-service-classes-00.txt "Configuration Guidelines for DiffServ Service Classes", Jozef Babiarz, 14-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-mlef-concerns-00.txt "MLEF Without Capacity Admission Does Not Satisfy MLPP Requirements", Fred Baker, James Polk, 9-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-mlpp-that-works-00.txt "Implementing MLPP for Voice and Video in the Internet Protocol Suite", Fred Baker, James Polk, 8-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-reduction-00.txt "A Resource Reservation Extension for the Reduction of Bandwidth of a Reservation Flow", James Polk, Subha Dhesikan, 10-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-02.txt "Aggregation of RSVP Reservations over MPLS TE/DS-TE Tunnels", Francois Le Faucheur, 14-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-ipsec-00.txt "Aggregate RSVP Reservations for IPsec Tunnels", Francois Le Faucheur, 14-Feb-05, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-ieprep-flow-model-considerations-01.txt "Considerations for IEPREP Related Protocol Packet Flow Models", James Polk, 16-May-03, Plus my mlpp-policy draft whenever I actually complete it. ? _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 01:01:49 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA23109 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4CRB-0005Vq-L2 for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:25:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D42pL-0001kQ-7K; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D42pJ-0001kK-GD for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07328 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw3a.lmco.com ([192.35.35.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D43C2-0007mP-76 for ieprep@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:33:12 -0500 Received: from emss04g01.ems.lmco.com (relay4.ems.lmco.com [166.17.13.122]) by mailgw3a.lmco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1NK9arx029488; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30884) id <0ICD00201S00MH@lmco.com>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from EMSS04I00.us.lmco.com ([166.17.13.135]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30884) with ESMTP id <0ICD0074IS00I5@lmco.com>; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from EMSS04M14.us.lmco.com ([162.16.20.50]) by EMSS04I00.us.lmco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:09:35 -0500 From: "Bose, Pratik" Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter To: Ken Carlberg Message-id: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E121@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter Thread-Index: AcUYZi2+2xlbyeqhRbC5NNL9/Gjh4wBP077QAA2W7uA= content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2005 20:09:35.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[987F7E50:01C519E3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>>>>>> Traditionally, the strongest form of persuasion in the IETF is to have an actual draft-RFC .....I'd encourage you or others to submit them. >>>>>>> Ken, There exists quite a few drafts in this area. Some of them can be found by looking at the agenda of the past few IEPREP WG meetings. Thanks, Pratik _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 01:39:53 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06809 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:39:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4D23-0001LO-EJ for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:03:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4CLj-0008GN-CF; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:19:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4CLh-0008Fe-Uk for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:19:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA29191 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:19:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502240619.BAA29191@ietf.org> Received: from phobos.simply.net ([81.3.64.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4CiY-0007Le-5q for ieprep@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:43:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 27783 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2005 06:19:33 -0000 Received: from pcp08471369pcs.towson01.md.comcast.net (HELO albers) (69.138.76.154) by phobos.simply.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2005 06:19:33 -0000 From: "Ken Carlberg" To: "'Fred Baker'" Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:19:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcUaGhEzx1wlxD5QTpCHT9r8czMyDgAHCSvg In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223152215.05897510@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6ffdee8af20de249c24731d8414917d3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you'll recall from the original note, the question was whether to re-charter IEPREP or start a new working group. by listing the following drafts in response to my comment, are we to assume that you wish to recharter the IEPREP group or start a new group? >From Pratik's response, its obvious that he had other/your existing work in mind, but that is a different issue. -ken > -----Original Message----- > From: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:ieprep-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:25 PM > To: Ken Carlberg > Cc: ieprep@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter > > At 07:59 AM 02/23/05 -0500, Ken Carlberg wrote: > >Traditionally, the strongest form of persuasion in the IETF is to have an > >actual draft-RFC from which others can comment on, and in this case, > >decide whether the document is a reasonable starting point to re-charter a > >group (or if it should go into another group, remain an individual > >submission, or simply expire). > > Would that be anything like: > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-nested-vpn-rou > ting-00.txt > "Routing in a Nested VPN", Fred Baker, 14-Feb-05, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-sign > aled-preemption-02.txt > "QoS Signaling in a Nested Virtual Private Network", Fred > Baker, 14-Feb-05, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chan-tsvwg-diffserv- > class-aggr-01.txt > "Aggregation of DiffServ Service Classes", Kwok Ho Chan, 21-Feb-05, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sip-resource-pr > iority-05.txt > "Communications Resource Priority for the Session > Initiation Protocol > (SIP)", > Henning Schulzrinne, James Polk, 26-Oct-04, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-reason- > header-for-preemption-02.txt > "Extending the Session Initiation Protocol Reason Header > for Preemption > Events", James Polk, 25-Aug-04, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-diffserv- > service-classes-00.txt > "Configuration Guidelines for DiffServ Service Classes", > Jozef Babiarz, > 14-Feb-05, > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-mlef-conc > erns-00.txt > "MLEF Without Capacity Admission Does Not Satisfy MLPP > Requirements", Fred > Baker, James Polk, 9-Feb-05, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-mlpp-that > -works-00.txt > "Implementing MLPP for Voice and Video in the Internet > Protocol Suite", > Fred > Baker, James Polk, 8-Feb-05, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-r > eduction-00.txt > "A Resource Reservation Extension for the Reduction of > Bandwidth of a > Reservation Flow", James Polk, Subha Dhesikan, 10-Feb-05, > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-02.txt > "Aggregation of RSVP Reservations over MPLS TE/DS-TE > Tunnels", Francois Le > Faucheur, 14-Feb-05, > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-ipsec-00.txt > "Aggregate RSVP Reservations for IPsec Tunnels", Francois > Le Faucheur, > 14-Feb-05, > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-ieprep-flow-mod > el-considerations-01.txt > "Considerations for IEPREP Related Protocol Packet Flow > Models", James > Polk, > 16-May-03, > > Plus my mlpp-policy draft whenever I actually complete it. > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Ieprep mailing list > Ieprep@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep > _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 02:05:04 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA19325 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:05:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4DQP-0003zk-OA for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:28:42 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4D0p-0002wf-AO; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:02:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4D0n-0002uR-Df for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:02:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16534 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:02:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4DNd-0003nr-5L for ieprep@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 02:25:50 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2005 00:16:40 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,111,1107734400"; d="scan'208"; a="228646033:sNHT18827160" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1O720uC006552; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from CSCOAMERA19540.cisco.com (stealth-10-32-244-219.cisco.com [10.32.244.219]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BCC84112; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:01:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223225101.05d5c050@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:51:54 -0800 To: "Ken Carlberg" From: Fred Baker Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter In-Reply-To: <3q2adl$1f3ono@sj-inbound-e.cisco.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223152215.05897510@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> <3q2adl$1f3ono@sj-inbound-e.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 At 01:19 AM 02/24/05 -0500, Ken Carlberg wrote: >if you'll recall from the original note, the question was whether to >re-charter >IEPREP or start a new working group. by listing the following drafts in >response to my comment, are we to assume that you wish to recharter the IEPREP >group or start a new group? personally, I don't care. From my perspective, either gives us a way forward, and that's what I'm looking for. _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 10:57:59 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06354 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4LkE-0001Fe-Rv for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:21:43 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4LDn-00082E-FJ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:48:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4LDl-00081x-3T for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:48:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05117 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:48:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4Laf-0000vI-67 for ieprep@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:11:50 -0500 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2005 09:02:16 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,114,1107734400"; d="scan'208"; a="228782203:sNHT20834724" Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1OFlTq8029077; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id HAA07653; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:47:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050224093816.03d31ad0@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:47:40 -0600 To: Fred Baker , "Ken Carlberg" From: "James M. Polk" Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223225101.05d5c050@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> References: <3q2adl$1f3ono@sj-inbound-e.cisco.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050223152215.05897510@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> <3q2adl$1f3ono@sj-inbound-e.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 ieprep (currently) is not meeting according to the draft agenda at http://www.ietf.org/meetings/agenda_62.txt so discussing this will have to be on the list and/or hallway conversations. I think there's sufficient interest from a good portion of the ieprep WG participants to work on a government-side set of solutions (vs. the current "public-only" solution side), which include extensions to existing protocols. Scott's position has always been to develop requirements from the IEPREP WG, and have the protocol WGs develop the actual standards. Well, that sounded great then, but it hasn't been working out that way (see Fred's note). I think there has been considerable resistance since Pittsburgh from the chairs and the IESG to have a government network focused area of work in this (or any other) WG. With the above in mind, there really hasn't been a forum (WG) to take an extension to RSVP or Diffserv to, so each extension has been waffling since initial submission until now. This is clearly not efficient, and it obviously not getting vendors anywhere wrt solving customer requirements for solutions they want to buy. At 10:51 PM 2/23/2005 -0800, Fred Baker wrote: >At 01:19 AM 02/24/05 -0500, Ken Carlberg wrote: >>if you'll recall from the original note, the question was whether to >>re-charter >>IEPREP or start a new working group. by listing the following drafts in >>response to my comment, are we to assume that you wish to recharter the >>IEPREP >>group or start a new group? > >personally, I don't care. From my perspective, either gives us a way >forward, and that's what I'm looking for. >_______________________________________________ >Ieprep mailing list >Ieprep@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep From ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 12:38:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21142 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:38:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4NJJ-00051Q-Cr for ieprep-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:02:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Mtg-0004pf-Pn; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:35:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Mtf-0004gA-3L for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:35:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20814 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ellis.ad.nps.navy.mil ([131.120.18.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4NGY-0004u7-JV for ieprep@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:59:11 -0500 Received: from antony ([131.120.179.249]) by ellis.ad.nps.navy.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:35:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [Ieprep] Discussion on Charter From: Rex Buddenberg To: Fred Baker In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050223150340.057cbd00@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> References: <37B6F612D86CA143B5F965E9EE8BD7AA05A1E111@emss04m14.us.lmco.com> <421C5183.3050504@cs.ucl.ac.uk> <6.2.1.2.2.20050223150340.057cbd00@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:35:15 -0800 Message-Id: <1109266516.3796.699.camel@antony> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2005 17:35:17.0313 (UTC) FILETIME=[34803B10:01C51A97] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Ian Brown , ieprep@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More on Fred's astute comments. A lot of the QoS issues -- which seem to take up a good share of the ink -- are layer 2 issues. That puts them outside the scope of IETF as a whole as layer 1/2 standards are not addressed by IETF (a decision, btw, that I agree with). For example, if you want GETS type service, one translation is a need for assured access at layer 2. With contention queues (like 802.11 WiFi), you simply can't get that. And nothing you do at layer 3 and up will change that fact. If, on the other hand, you have a scheduling queue (802.16, .20, .22), you can provide layer 2 QoS. At this point, we do have an issue -- how do you control that stuff from higher layers. Here the otherwise-healthy division between IETF and IEEE needs a connection. This need has been often recognized but never really hit stride ... perhaps when WiMax stuff arrives in the marketplace in force that will change (why build a control mechanism when there's nothing to control?). On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 15:11 -0800, Fred Baker wrote: > At 09:48 AM 02/23/05 +0000, Ian Brown wrote: > >Pratik - this has been a long-running debate. But it does seem logical to > >have the experts on a particular protocol (the responsible Working Group) > >be involved in any updates that are required to provide these > >capabilities. Given that the WGs conduct the vast majority of their work > >by e-mail, and meet at the physical IETF meetings three times a year, > >would it be particularly more efficient to try to gather all of this > >expertise in one place, whether a rechartered IEPREP or a new WG? > > From my perspective, it might be. > > Related work is going on in a variety of places right now. Some relates to > RSVP, to MPLS, to diffserv code points, to SIP, and IIRC a few other > things. The RSVP and diffserv WGs are right now dormant, and the other > working groups find this rather peripheral to their central foci. If they > can each severally sit down and get something done, fine. But consider: > > - the SIP work was originally proposed in Adeliade, five years ago > - the RSVP work builds on work that was finished in 1998, and the WG has > been closed since then > - NSIS work, if one chooses that route, is proposed, but at this point very > sketchy > - Diffserv has likewise been closed for at least two years > - We have discussed parts of it with TSVWG, but it is just a few weeks ago > that they decided to even consider responding to it by allowing the > documents to become WG drafts > > So putting together a WG - whether ieprep with an appropriately changed > charter or something new - that can focus on this problem and put out a > solution seems more likely to actually produce a result within our lifetime > than waiting for WGs that don't exist or don't care to decide it is important. > > YMMV > > _______________________________________________ > Ieprep mailing list > Ieprep@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep -- b _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep