From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Jun 29 04:27:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499BE21F9FE2 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 04:27:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G+K6h7+u5FAK for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 04:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x236.google.com (mail-pa0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4664821F9FDF for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 04:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id kx10so3372117pab.13 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6J4+8Y+t7ydlBwgi7ymYU+vIOdu5n9Qi9DtXCavk6cI=; b=HuzejK5RvQPnEZ9mrDIaMAEtisXSj/yXAxZ/g8wtqQbHT/VbLevZqbr79qw2Krqf3L 9DShPYUFnVpeuTnw7c1g3LvWuluxLkrSS5El8774XU7rnIjUiOA3Ct1XdLxbGUBTxbnJ CIcQhlqwThKNvQxRUfuA1EdvNy6Gbp/rYB09bzxNideDXH4bgSxBj0RKKPxexVxLwZz4 eB5nBMR45uejoMPNL875HlgTISZkQSdPjB2hPDE3k0PW7/BuqWiUakX+GaSgAivuNuVd SLZm9haCxKbOF2G35olpnb6ToZlDL+wjeVvh7IGsREVSaVbqONSZcxsxLPdxYu6MqVyL V3cQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.221.101 with SMTP id qd5mr15371740pac.174.1372505228564; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.250.133 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jun 2013 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 13:27:08 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 07:28:22 -0700 Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: [ietf-nomcom] Fwd: Comments For I-D: draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-00 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 11:27:10 -0000 Hi Moonesamy, (the Author of draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-00) I think the draft still needs more details, for example, the Abstract says to give remote contributors eligible to serve but how many remote, it is not-reasonable/not-practical to have most remote, and it is not fare/diverse to have all not remote. Furthermore, you did not mention diversity in the draft related to members selected. AB> I prefer if you refer me, or the discussion list chair can refer me to somewhere we can discuss this new draft. Please note that I was told not to post more discuss messages on this list, so the chair or you are required to respond on this issue related to discussing the draft, because this may be my last post regarding this I-D. AB> the update may need an informational draft (or better introduction) like what [1] is doing, so if we know the information on process challenges we will know the best practice. I like the [1] draft I think it needs to be renewed including remote members possibilities. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-crocker-nomcom-process-00.txt AB> you need to define *remote contributor* in the draft. When the authors define it then I can amend or edit. You need to mention that most of meeting of IETF per year are in one region which makes some from other regions to contribute remotely. Section 2> The section is not reasonable because you changed with no strong reasons. Why you want to change totally, I recommend to add idea not change. As to give opportunity to additional memebrs that are remote. These additional memebrs will have a special condition. This way you don't change the conditions for the current procedure of selecting f2f memebrs, and you may limit the number of remote contributors maybe 10 % of the total memebrs. AB> suggest in Section 2> I suggest not to update the text of the RFC but to add new rule for selecting few remote participants. AB> you need to add what are the remote memebrs responsibilities, because they may be similar or different than the other memebrs. my answers to your questions below, On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 1:50 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > > Hi Abdussalam, > > > Thanks for explaining why you support the draft. I am going to list some questions. Please read them as points to consider. There isn't any obligation to provide comments. You mean the draft should consider, > > - What is your opinion about helping the "pie get larger"? No we don't want things to get larger for others to eat, we want things to get smarter for others to use, share, and develop equally. > > > - What would be an acceptable way of determining whether someone > has been contributing to the IETF over a period of five meetings? Where are the five meetings (is it a f2f meeting?)and what kind of contributing you are asking? > - Dave Cridland suggested that working groups provide a smallish set of > volunteers each for the selection process. Is it okay to leave it > to the working group chair to make the decision? I really want to focus questions related to the new draft not other issues. Therefore, I think the draft needs to involve what was discussed on the list (feedback). Updating this RFC procedure may need more reasons than what was presented in the draft, I think it is nice if you add more and change info to renew this draft for more further discusses. Thanks. AB From sm@elandsys.com Tue Jul 30 03:54:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE9311E8100 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.279, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NBHbW0eUPLW9 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E1FC21F9D5C for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.144.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6UAs6fe021568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:54:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375181658; bh=Xnbra3yFAzUg+0TIpmYT2DojC0Iy0m/sAa0G2c9qIjA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=w9qT+nbN/hrgQkO11Q804q2Sa1dvbbHmFNOMTyJhB+x0fkhBWwXnj7QBdPZYjSOBF rbgV7+Z/Sv68ofYsOcDFWbQg/DFP0cs3H1yuim25ZD38Hwj0fUaACxpGSc2lurjNu6 3Y97M23IL2DEpzWofjMnhwkoB37A2VXXF/nq+ycw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1375181658; i=@elandsys.com; bh=Xnbra3yFAzUg+0TIpmYT2DojC0Iy0m/sAa0G2c9qIjA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=JczfyMMN+02UAi+mWZZQwgxpnQyBE6S36iDC/6msB1YArBwppiCb/WlEURo0SX2YZ Jl7kFxXkpSzKB2zGjcG0Alzy4kDKKMWdcqylCDaPwmWS8exHuyflK7TL1MCKUZHRSr +3LZtlefPMMIMPXHMxsDFyLaRQteovmLaL7p2L3w= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730034456.0d81a700@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:53:43 -0700 To: Michael Richardson From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <32379.1375179842@sandelman.ca> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> <32379.1375179842@sandelman.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:54:19 -0000 Hi Michael, Thanks for the feedback. At 03:24 30-07-2013, Michael Richardson wrote: >S Moonesamy wrote: > > The proposed requirements are: > >Pick one? yes,that's what your draft says. Yes. > > (a) attended at least 3 of last 5 IETF meetings > > > (b) attended at least 15 IETF meetings, including at least > > 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings. > > > (c) attended at least 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings and has been > > listed as least twice as personnel during the last 5 IETF > > meetings. > >I don't understand "personnel". The "personnel" is mentioned in the write-ups (e.g. see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg11736.html ). The write-up is public information and it can be validated by anyone. >I still think that one should seperate "becoming eligible" from "remaining >eligible" The "remaining eligible" was not mentioned in previous discussions. Item (b) attempts to address the "remaining eligible". Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Tue Jul 30 07:15:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8511C21E80DB for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:15:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DkoW8rlMNC30 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A7E21F9CC0 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.132.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6UEFZvI005713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:15:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375193748; bh=ULczTsseEhOh4ReFzCEOW66POQh+AQsIEx2M30BQw1g=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=3IdUI6r8QGtQNtuK49r4Maaab0xr54YtmCSfN8PNOfZHrAVAmpYU5wlGseqlm3sms GZ9QS2c89HQWBDPe8k5O9+gBTjcnbgsDtD26iz+UzSmo4NRY4+H6JjzbxQvc8vaTSR BYJvS7tZm+qiocFL+E674UuPnbPzK1xMG/ek+Ryw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1375193748; i=@elandsys.com; bh=ULczTsseEhOh4ReFzCEOW66POQh+AQsIEx2M30BQw1g=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=k0KsczPke9JGdFuAAJwXtuBWFcoD+wp0ZQ+3fYm3RLCNk0NZTtT5+oX0OkjUw6a6r mvz//cQrdc3T3OyxISacow3BSWMMwBFHN4+oAZojvjNAh+ryOV9oY7ycObn1rtv2V6 tk/Ff4SnJg+DDSlamiXdinOqv4XqCOImnMiPwDm4= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730070928.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:15:16 -0700 To: "Eggert, Lars" From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org, James M Galvin Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:15:54 -0000 Hi Lars, [Cc note to list moderator, there are a few messages in the queue. :-) ] At 04:11 30-07-2013, Eggert, Lars wrote: >For (c), I'd prefer if you said "served as a WG chair or a >NomCom-appointed position", instead of tying the eligibility to the >format of the announcement emails. I got some other feedback along the same lines. I'll merge them and propose some text. >But more generally, my guess would be that the number of people that >do not satisfy (a) but satisfy (b) or (c) is very small. (I don't >have data, but the secretariat might.) So I think the change you >propose would by and large be a no-op, and I therefore question the >need for it. I don't have the numbers. I'll encourage people to comment about whether it makes a difference to them. >PS: You should revise your abstract and introduction. The document >no longer allows "all contributors to the IETF Standards Process to >be eligible to serve on NomCom and sign a Recall petition." At >best, it allows a few more contributors to do so. Agreed. I'll need to rework them in light of the new proposal. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Tue Jul 30 07:30:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B9B21F8C71 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LxCcdfS0NCs7 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 936E921E80FA for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.132.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6UESr8d003777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:29:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375194545; bh=OhkjgJBaWxqU8mAwyaxpbTFPw+6wU9X1r+inpbR520g=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=i0AW1wuFgLYqwIQqsi696P3sXH4iWp1uxjE9JLj5hHxRmmw9DJVWydN6E31f6SFjW UgnQaRyF9FP4d7KoToSVQJIWBhCPIJfBQHkZLxpHArG5x20aTVoTSl+SLnkqOy0Soh UnctkWTnIBoY6lE+RUzE0nLJ85ehynGB6hYx4kkk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1375194545; i=@elandsys.com; bh=OhkjgJBaWxqU8mAwyaxpbTFPw+6wU9X1r+inpbR520g=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=iLv7CzQ4uHooDzQt7x9yQWlNQ6dGzu5GcVva9hmNpVpBBsyoe0yBpLxp4ASuMlqL+ IlWL9si0AFapLo5aNiyBIG6TvcJuslDjXOsM5YCazOfr9V7SKc4/xY5ZkAIV+fuXEm VXtbktTxnrmq4XnJs8rKOZKKtU3f30N60ivSdTEs= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730072017.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:28:10 -0700 To: Michael Richardson From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <21977.1375188403@sandelman.ca> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> <32379.1375179842@sandelman.ca> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730034456.0d81a700@elandnews.com> <21977.1375188403@sandelman.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:30:54 -0000 Hi Michael, At 05:46 30-07-2013, Michael Richardson wrote: >I see. It's not complete enough to be useful. There were comments from two person on the -01. I'll propose some text to clarify the "personnel" term. >The authors of the draft are not mentioned, or are any of the people in the >acknowledgements, nor are the WG chairs. No, the current usage of personnel is to list the Area Director and the document shepherd (usually a WG Chair or WG secretary). >And using this might increase strife about who should be included in >acknowlegements. I would like to avoid the acknowledgements discussion. :-) >I understand. I like the idea, but perhaps the metric is not quite right >yet. Agreed. I'll put it this way: - Does this proposal make a difference to you? - Will it help people with experience be NomCom-eligible? Regards, S. Moonesamy From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Tue Jul 30 08:53:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCAC11E8221 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:53:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ch7sEIDFLj+2 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC9911E8224 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id kp13so6025839pab.7 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:53:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/PvNJTvnNw8M2aeOscqVp++Qx3CxA9AnbwOoK9JjFYI=; b=BPpIGaeqGpiHrWsdBccYUxOO7BYc6ablOJdr85bJX6UA9IMTBfHvux6bBiea3kRVOM CLTR1GbPgJXwrD+ht8Dm9oqbJgGv/I12Sgr8rLNRQ81/kPo7QTM3hbQYSITfwrtYWxTU Vuox5J9NT1ZoGJHaHpZ6kLIzkzNrUGyqrP1tqL1/fU+FKFzCjd2SSy8/Oe6QLICq2skq m4lKX/nik/sTu33VZQaolkB2Wg4wNzVkSSrv0GuVOQZgEWDkPpF/Mj0LBpTj3xezFcMb +uYn8ZMi15CushmhXZDj3jGnBKL6wMFqfGG+9Sg1DagDHgyUB1sh6Wz613ACJL4zO2yM OznA== X-Received: by 10.66.233.169 with SMTP id tx9mr38773567pac.166.1375199583486; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8:0:64:a46c:251d:2d6a:c9b4? ([2001:df8:0:64:a46c:251d:2d6a:c9b4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ot4sm27705350pac.17.2013.07.30.08.53.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51F7E159.5020505@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:52:57 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730070928.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730070928.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org, Jari Arkko , James M Galvin Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:53:18 -0000 On 7/30/2013 9:15 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Lars, > > [Cc note to list moderator, there are a few messages in the queue. :-) ] I just sent a request to find out what the admin password is. I'll release held posts if I get it. In the meantime, subscribing is never wrong ... Spencer From sm@elandsys.com Tue Jul 30 09:25:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC1821F95DC for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.045, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HLlzDQG9RSCh for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609A121F8BE6 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.132.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6UGOe0W019077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:24:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375201494; bh=0cH/PiWbVzHjBwl5Aujd/PQfB0PgeyJBmInDRntYww0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=NuFijv3tLVnuhLKSccJ5nArQ3M9njP0OMMZnQJZc7r0era8/Dixfl0jGGdlTkb00a mHX5rnHqFpTwOhOjSsLS1+N3Fk4WLP1mUxusvoUfMfOxnw9v38sI6FwsD1O3L9hCIs q89VQQgw4vagsmbxcpQq+udxR30r38xrmvjd4POw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1375201494; i=@elandsys.com; bh=0cH/PiWbVzHjBwl5Aujd/PQfB0PgeyJBmInDRntYww0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=N+pnaTGR35cCDZIx2Ss8eR8n/AdLyy428X8tnobGxYTf+FS82pXYCX+9ad1mMuMFP UJu+ojg3NgEps8O2FXegLkroPUiGWE+iQLtmBxCEH/bz7vvsJh2GpnIM/N+x+AWNiW +6iuVq08OqeXICJ/M51a2utVPFdOyzJJnDz8YY5A= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730085204.0d6ca950@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:20:03 -0700 To: Michael Richardson From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <12009.1375197220@sandelman.ca> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> <32379.1375179842@sandelman.ca> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730034456.0d81a700@elandnews.com> <21977.1375188403@sandelman.ca> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730072017.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> <12009.1375197220@sandelman.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:25:01 -0000 At 08:13 30-07-2013, Michael Richardson wrote: >But, it doesn't even mention document authors, so it's a poor place to get a >list of active people. Either it could be improved, or another thing could >be used. I would like to avoid creating an incentive for more names in the author list. I'll try your suggestion (grep mailbox). > From 1996 until 2005, when my son was born, I was nomcom-eligible by the old >rules. Between 2004 and mid-2012 I was not nomcom eligible. >I certainly was at 15 meetings prior to 2005. >Did I attend 2 meetings in the last 5? >In 2006, I would have remained eligible. >Between 2007 and 2010 I would have remained in-eligible. >(I attended more than half of those remotely, and reviewed lots of IPsec WG >documents, and became involved in ROLL) >In 2011 I was not eligible according to current rules, but I would have been >eligible under your rule 1 meeting earlier. There will be cases, as mentioned above, where a person will not be NomCom-eligible. I do not think that it is not relevant. The previous questions were to try and get a sense of what people consider as making the difference. > > - Will it help people with experience be NomCom-eligible? > >it is better than before, but not significantly. I read "not significantly" as meaning that it does not make the difference between now and what is being proposed. At 08:52 30-07-2013, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >In the meantime, subscribing is never wrong ... I am subscribed. :-) My message triggered an anti-abuse rule. That is why it went to the moderation queue. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Tue Jul 30 02:57:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F355311E8144 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 02:57:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L9h8D19bUm6l for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 02:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB89B21E804B for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 02:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.144.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6U9t8pE004278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 02:55:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375178130; bh=zbKcPYSwPXckL1aEI9KiJQUd721J2LMt862fgZO2ehE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc; b=T3sBHLGBOQwDqtvcL2M9SUDO+fkG+FJcl6LKtmOCNewjuSee1CVMCL6hVnu/pLYPs MLm/qLabKoJVDHtQaG7BNHHmTbea+RCmEBzzJi3shlvxzvHD1+CaiHL8g22Gk0FtcC quA8D5NA06fRegcoNt1lcSE3x32kbvMzEKSmyQio= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1375178130; i=@elandsys.com; bh=zbKcPYSwPXckL1aEI9KiJQUd721J2LMt862fgZO2ehE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc; b=sCqNuHVPSSwp/oj/5n3wK151ImS41MIoQxbagyqoKWVNdiyY1EcfcEKa72ZdX7IJz FZOllJWstzdRtnP7SSi1az7ygbsxnVcftc4I1E8OcOrHbZJyobV978FuW1LPewz26j UBOR0BnfHWtd+Fckb6D1Qg79NnuHyRYuGA/VMM7M= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 02:47:07 -0700 To: Arturo Servin , "Eggert, Lars" , Brian E Carpenter , Stephen Farrell , Olafur Gudmundsson , John Curran , Adrian Farrel , Abdussalam Baryun , "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" , Melinda Shore , Michael Richardson , Eliot Lear , Yoav Nir From: S Moonesamy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:48:00 -0700 Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:57:05 -0000 Hello, I submitted a revision of the draft about updating the "Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility" ( http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 ). Stephen Farrell , Olafur Gudmundsson and John Curran mentioned that physically attending one meeting is not enough. Eliot Lear agreed and mentioned mitigating the risk. draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 uses a two out of five meetings minimum eligibility rule. There were questions about the definition of "remote attendance". I removed it as it may be difficult to find an appropriate definition. The proposed requirements are: (a) attended at least 3 of last 5 IETF meetings (b) attended at least 15 IETF meetings, including at least 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings. (c) attended at least 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings and has been listed as least twice as personnel during the last 5 IETF meetings. Regards, S. Moonesamy From mcr@sandelman.ca Tue Jul 30 03:25:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD76211E81C8 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:25:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t1YTOOLIxwWC for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3::184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B5521F9644 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 03:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959552017B; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id C694963A7C; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 06:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9EDF636AD; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 06:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:48:00 -0700 Cc: "Cullen Jennings \(fluffy\)" , ietf-nomcom@ietf.org, Eliot Lear , Yoav Nir , Melinda Shore , Arturo Servin , John Curran , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:25:39 -0000 S Moonesamy wrote: > The proposed requirements are: Pick one? yes,that's what your draft says. > (a) attended at least 3 of last 5 IETF meetings > (b) attended at least 15 IETF meetings, including at least > 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings. > (c) attended at least 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings and has been > listed as least twice as personnel during the last 5 IETF > meetings. I don't understand "personnel". I still think that one should seperate "becoming eligible" from "remaining eligible" -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From lars@netapp.com Tue Jul 30 04:11:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD2811E810F for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 04:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.453, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3xugMvntl4B for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 04:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.netapp.com (mx1.netapp.com [216.240.18.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BD211E81E6 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 04:11:37 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,777,1367996400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="270807382" Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) by mx1-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 30 Jul 2013 04:11:35 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.240]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 04:11:35 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: S Moonesamy Thread-Topic: Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 Thread-Index: AQHOjQtRjSMokqc+Xk+NID5A5HQ/MJl9hlqA Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:11:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.115] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_70A9605D-5075-4337-A4FF-379EC87A8C22"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:48:00 -0700 Cc: "Cullen Jennings \(fluffy\)" , "" , Eliot Lear , Michael Richardson , Melinda Shore , Arturo Servin , John Curran , Yoav Nir , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:11:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_70A9605D-5075-4337-A4FF-379EC87A8C22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Jul 30, 2013, at 11:47, S Moonesamy wrote: > (a) attended at least 3 of last 5 IETF meetings >=20 > (b) attended at least 15 IETF meetings, including at least > 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings. >=20 > (c) attended at least 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings and has been > listed as least twice as personnel during the last 5 IETF > meetings. For (c), I'd prefer if you said "served as a WG chair or a = NomCom-appointed position", instead of tying the eligibility to the = format of the announcement emails. But more generally, my guess would be that the number of people that do = not satisfy (a) but satisfy (b) or (c) is very small. (I don't have = data, but the secretariat might.) So I think the change you propose = would by and large be a no-op, and I therefore question the need for it. Lars PS: You should revise your abstract and introduction. The document no = longer allows "all contributors to the IETF Standards Process to be = eligible to serve on NomCom and sign a Recall petition." At best, it = allows a few more contributors to do so. --Apple-Mail=_70A9605D-5075-4337-A4FF-379EC87A8C22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUfefZdZcnpRveo1xAQKvxgP+J+qcDbDi4VTnG2//e4C6Waahwlh5Yhny Cyosx5bvNpORrB7iAeLY+m6yoDH+YhE9zD3BGXiLH3xySIxVzpVsEoKLASVqBbM3 b0AfBB18uF1HeowsK/eK3QC80P3lGp7ruSaHar5wAdYqVRQWuKRvpcqulJTnpHXK fP3rCGWxvro= =02C8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_70A9605D-5075-4337-A4FF-379EC87A8C22-- From mcr@sandelman.ca Tue Jul 30 05:48:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E6C21E80DF for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 05:48:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.326, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eQIS0QO2MNrY for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 05:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3::184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F6421E80DE for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 05:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5CD2017D; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 8510863A7C; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D80C636AD; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:46:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730034456.0d81a700@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> <32379.1375179842@sandelman.ca> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730034456.0d81a700@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:48:00 -0700 Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:48:12 -0000 --=-=-= S Moonesamy wrote: >> > (c) attended at least 2 of the last 5 IETF meetings and has been >> > listed as least twice as personnel during the last 5 IETF >> > meetings. >> >> I don't understand "personnel". > The "personnel" is mentioned in the write-ups (e.g. see > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg11736.html ). > The write-up is public information and it can be validated by anyone. I see. It's not complete enough to be useful. The authors of the draft are not mentioned, or are any of the people in the acknowledgements, nor are the WG chairs. And using this might increase strife about who should be included in acknowlegements. >> I still think that one should seperate "becoming eligible" from "remaining >> eligible" > The "remaining eligible" was not mentioned in previous discussions. Item (b) > attempts to address the "remaining eligible". I understand. I like the idea, but perhaps the metric is not quite right yet. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUfe1sIqHRg3pndX9AQLOKwQAv5jfT9GgxdMEnvqHFRfu3GMaLHkknl23 EaMvEYV49k0f7kqGjd0p8gKds5a/KS34yVNNksXN2DXnG1v9QGr1zUq1UIC3ks8a EXV3nq6Et6ZUX285nM+gh+EbNvlfKYOV5ZA89cPxritDhSs5TcjxxwmFtLbNQMt2 hBY/1AvPAyQ= =eR/4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mcr@sandelman.ca Tue Jul 30 08:15:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-nomcom@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66E921F9D7B for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:15:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RKG2gwOu2Ukp for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3::184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A3D21F9D70 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913632018A; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id E158963A7C; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DF5636AD; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730072017.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130730022629.0b408308@elandnews.com> <32379.1375179842@sandelman.ca> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730034456.0d81a700@elandnews.com> <21977.1375188403@sandelman.ca> <6.2.5.6.2.20130730072017.0d2397d0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:48:00 -0700 Cc: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ietf-nomcom] Nominating Committee Process: Eligibility - draft-moonesamy-nomcom-eligibility-01 X-BeenThere: ietf-nomcom@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions of possible revisions to the NomCom process List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:15:13 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable S Moonesamy wrote: >> I see. It's not complete enough to be useful. > There were comments from two person on the -01. I'll propose some te= xt to > clarify the "personnel" term. >> The authors of the draft are not mentioned, or are any of the people= in the >> acknowledgements, nor are the WG chairs. > No, the current usage of personnel is to list the Area Director and t= he > document shepherd (usually a WG Chair or WG secretary). >> And using this might increase strife about who should be included in >> acknowlegements. > I would like to avoid the acknowledgements discussion. :-) I know. But, it doesn't even mention document authors, so it's a poor place to get a list of active people. Either it could be improved, or another thing could be used. Even just "grep From:" * | psed -e 's/.*(<\S@\S>).*/\1/' | sort | uniq -c (* =3D=3D all emails to @ietf.org lists) would be, in my opinion, better. > Agreed. > I'll put it this way: > - Does this proposal make a difference to you? From=201996 until 2005, when my son was born, I was nomcom-eligible by the = old rules. Between 2004 and mid-2012 I was not nomcom eligible. I certainly was at 15 meetings prior to 2005. Did I attend 2 meetings in the last 5? In 2006, I would have remained eligible. Between 2007 and 2010 I would have remained in-eligible. (I attended more than half of those remotely, and reviewed lots of IPsec WG documents, and became involved in ROLL) In 2011 I was not eligible according to current rules, but I would have been eligible under your rule 1 meeting earlier. > - Will it help people with experience be NomCom-eligible? it is better than before, but not significantly. =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUffYIoqHRg3pndX9AQJJIQP/TgqMMn2dHDSTYlJiOdcxO4QCNRttg+x0 sHYYProkLahX0G/ARMdchQeZWMqguPzyMwiztRAIwQijk+cttmhGOA/xQF73u4h8 3matvHJuPCiONNpoz8prUkLRWgGkGPTqfM77lidmB8cC5tJ6u8obo0MVyFk1VqgF N/ad/vRSyH8= =Vmy5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--