From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 5 11:13:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28413A6F48; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:13:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.180, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c4udukTK8l28; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:13:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84628C207; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:13:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8485D28C234 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:13:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mth1vmrvPjH3 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EE328C837 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A3C25978C for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:13:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02296-09 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:12:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.28.62.117] (unknown [195.18.164.170]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4947725977F for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:12:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:12:51 +0100 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand To: ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <9CFA6E879214F5528897F66B@localhost> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Subject: [EAI] Agenda draft for the Philadelphia EAI meeting X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Apologies for the lateness of this message; it should have been out weeks ago. Let the agenda bashing begin! Name: EMail Address Internationalization (EAI) Chairs: Harald Alvestrand and Xiaodong Lee Date: Thursday, March 13, 2008 Time: 1300 - 1500 ========================================== 1300 - Agenda bash, blue sheets, scribe selection 1305 - Status of UTF8HDR, SMTPEXT, DSN (Chris Newman) 1310 - Downgrade draft Are we ready to send this to the IESG for publication? Draft name: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-06 (Feb 14) 1320 - POP and IMAP Draft names: draft-ietf-eai-pop-03 (Feb 25) draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-02 (Nov 19) 1350 - Other drafts on EAI slate draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-03 draft-ietf-eai-scenarios-03 (has this outlived its usefulness?) 1410 - New drafts to be considered for adoption draft-dainow-eai-email-clients-00 - Implementation advice draft-fujiwara-eai-downgraded-display-00 - Displaying downgraded messages in EAI-capable clients Decision: To recommend adoption as WG documents, to recommend continued development outside of the WG, or to recommend against pursuing this path. If adopting, figure out how these can be inserted in a possibly-modified charter. 1440 - Organization of future work Once the documents are published, we desire a period of experimentation. Is it useful to repeat calls for interoperability testing among implementations? When should we aim for starting the creation of standards-track documents? 1450 - Summary of actions, close of meeting _______________________________________________ EAI-DT mailing list EAI-DT@alvestrand.no http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/eai-dt _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 5 12:23:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15AD28C224; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:23:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.692 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.255, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kzfn--D+DJ55; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35FC928C1E7; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:23:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76923A6850 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:23:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 729weNcYGfRL for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0602E3A6A0D for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JX07z-0003x1-LK for ima@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:22:15 +0000 Received: from hmbg-d9b88e28.pool.mediaways.net ([217.184.142.40]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:22:15 +0000 Received: from nobody by hmbg-d9b88e28.pool.mediaways.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:22:15 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ima@ietf.org From: "Frank Ellermann" Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:24:26 +0100 Organization: Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <9CFA6E879214F5528897F66B@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: hmbg-d9b88e28.pool.mediaways.net X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 Subject: Re: [EAI] Agenda draft for the Philadelphia EAI meeting X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Ellermann List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > Let the agenda bashing begin! mailto-eai and mailto-bis Unlike downgrade etc. something I actually looked at whenever a comma (pun intended) was changed. Frank _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 5 12:46:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA7E3A6F5F; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:46:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLS-aZRne9NP; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7429128C0E4; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:46:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 835293A6EF0; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:46:00 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: <20080305204600.835293A6EF0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:46:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] Last Call: draft-ietf-eai-dsn (Internationalized Delivery Status and Disposition Notifications) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has received a request from the Email Address Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document: - 'Internationalized Delivery Status and Disposition Notifications ' as an Experimental RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-19. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-dsn-06.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=15635&rfc_flag=0 _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 5 14:57:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5277028C760; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:57:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.686 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.686 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.249, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBEWL6VDkC5u; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:57:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B9728C6FB; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:57:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407CF28C6FB for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:57:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TPktSoPIjRyD for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C13328C67F for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JX2Xy-0004KF-Fq for ima@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:57:14 +0000 Received: from hmbg-d9b88e28.pool.mediaways.net ([217.184.142.40]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:57:14 +0000 Received: from nobody by hmbg-d9b88e28.pool.mediaways.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:57:14 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ima@ietf.org From: "Frank Ellermann" Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 23:59:25 +0100 Organization: Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <20080305204600.835293A6EF0@core3.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: hmbg-d9b88e28.pool.mediaways.net X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 Subject: Re: [EAI] Last Call: draft-ietf-eai-dsn (Internationalized Delivery Status and Disposition Notifications) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Ellermann List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=15635&rfc_flag=0 URLs for the related feeds: https://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/comments/draft-ietf-eai-dsn/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/comments/draft-ietf-eai-smtpext/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/comments/draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/comments/draft-hansen-4468upd-mailesc-registry/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/comments/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis/ UTF8headers has a normative reference to mailing-list (expired). SMTPext needs 4468upd, and 2821bis could be relevant for . Meanwhile net-utf8 was approved. Unicode-escapes is now RFC 5137. 2822upd is not yet tracked. Frank _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 5 19:55:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701A93A6D09; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:55:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.078 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_NJABL_RELAY=2.696, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uSeSPeoRajWO; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70AAE28C21D; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:55:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D0B28C634 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:55:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZTSPb5pIDZ6r for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD68D3A69C6 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id m263tGAG022335 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:55:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from (133.2.206.133) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp id 2371_21beaf66_eb31_11dc_8c63_0014221f2a2d; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:55:16 +0900 Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.210.1]:47099) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:50:48 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20080306101521.076c0020@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:16:35 +0900 To: Frank Ellermann , ima@ietf.org From: Martin Duerst In-Reply-To: References: <9CFA6E879214F5528897F66B@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] Agenda draft for the Philadelphia EAI meeting X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org At 05:24 08/03/06, Frank Ellermann wrote: >Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > >> Let the agenda bashing begin! > >mailto-eai and mailto-bis Yes, please have a look at these. Mailto-bis is not a WG draft, but there are quite some dependencies on it from mailto-eai. Regards, Martin. >Unlike downgrade etc. something I actually looked >at whenever a comma (pun intended) was changed. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 10 07:43:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAAD328D898; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:43:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBNLIF6Fn41r; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39CD28DCAD; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:20:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 7183628C45B; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:20:46 -0700 (PDT) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: <20080310142046.7183628C45B@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] Last Call: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext (SMTP extension for internationalized email address) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has received a request from the Email Address Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following documents: - 'SMTP extension for internationalized email address ' as an Experimental RFC - 'Internationalized Email Headers ' as an Experimental RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-24. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-smtpext-11.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers-09.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14675&rfc_flag=0 _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 13 08:30:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6EF28C177; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:30:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i0sd1lmQ2ybt; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487803A6C30; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:30:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id C0E6A3A6BF5; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080313153001.C0E6A3A6BF5@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : Downgrading mechanism for Email Address Internationalization Author(s) : K. Fujiwara, Y. Yoneya Filename : draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2008-03-13 Traditional mail systems handle only ASCII characters in SMTP envelope and mail header fields. The Email Address Internationalization (UTF8SMTP) extension allows UTF-8 characters in SMTP envelope and mail header fields. To avoid bouncing internationalized Email messages when a server in the delivery path does not support the UTF8SMTP extension, some sort of converting mechanism is required. This document describes a downgrading mechanism for Email Address Internationalization. Note that this is a way to downgrade, not tunnel. There is no associated up-conversion mechanism, although internationalized email clients might use original internationalized addresses or other data when displaying or replying to downgraded messages. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-03-13082938.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima --NextPart-- From ima-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 13 08:46:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F160028C7E1; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:46:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5hThJzXBwwHD; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0138728C821; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:45:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8796728C7E1 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:45:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZmtE-EzXdq9S for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (send01.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.113]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DE728C893 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with SMTP id m2DFhMaA007272 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:43:22 +0900 (JST) Received: (from localhost [172.18.4.61]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (SMSSMTP 4.0.4.64) with SMTP id M2008031400432217428 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:43:22 +0900 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:43:22 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20080314.004322.35823665.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: ima@ietf.org From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <20080313153001.C0E6A3A6BF5@core3.amsl.com> References: <20080313153001.C0E6A3A6BF5@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2.52 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org I updated downgrade document. Changes between 05 - 06 are: Moved decoding downgraded messages as a separate document -> draft-fujiwara-eai-downgraded-display-00 Added a text to UNSTRUCTURED downgrading Added "replacing SMTP connection" if necessary to SMTP downgrading. fixed examples Changes between 06 - 07 are: Fixed 3 typos Added a text about 7bit transport 8.2. 7bit transport consideration The SMTP client may confront a SMTP server which does not support the 8BITMIME SMTP extension [RFC1652]. The server does not support "8bit" or "binary" data. Implementers need to consider to replace "8bit" data to be "base64" or "quoted-printable" encoded form and reflect it to "Content-Transfer-Encoding" header field. If the body contains multiple MIME parts, this conversion must be performed for each MIME part according to [RFC2045]. Please check differences using rfcdiff. http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-06.txt&url2=http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt Regards, -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. > > > Title : Downgrading mechanism for Email Address Internationalization > Author(s) : K. Fujiwara, Y. Yoneya > Filename : draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt > Pages : 25 > Date : 2008-03-13 > > Traditional mail systems handle only ASCII characters in SMTP > envelope and mail header fields. The Email Address > Internationalization (UTF8SMTP) extension allows UTF-8 characters in > SMTP envelope and mail header fields. To avoid bouncing > internationalized Email messages when a server in the delivery path > does not support the UTF8SMTP extension, some sort of converting > mechanism is required. This document describes a downgrading > mechanism for Email Address Internationalization. Note that this is > a way to downgrade, not tunnel. There is no associated up-conversion > mechanism, although internationalized email clients might use > original internationalized addresses or other data when displaying or > replying to downgraded messages. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-07.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 13 11:40:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1590628C387; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:40:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wnoSaaDj4cKZ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1A628C1E4; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:40:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F4A28C1E4 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:40:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id grbB5fo+zOOo for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (send01.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.113]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F9828C1E1 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with SMTP id m2DIbkaA009920 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:37:46 +0900 (JST) Received: (from NOTE233 [202.11.16.62]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (SMSSMTP 4.0.4.64) with SMTP id M2008031403374517789 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:37:45 +0900 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:37:35 +0900 From: Yoshiro YONEYA To: ima@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080314033735.d7bc3652.yone@jprs.co.jp> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.8 (GTK+ 2.10.14; i686-pc-mingw32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [EAI] EAI implementations and interoperability testing X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Followings are summary of EAI implementations that CNNIC, TWNC and JPRS are developing for protocol evaluation. I think it is a good timing to start interoperability test. Please let me know if you have implementation and wish to start interoperability test with. We don't have test scenarios and test cases yet, but I think a few typical cases will be enough at the very beginning, for example a UA sends an EAI message to a MSA/MTA. Any comments and suggestions are welcome. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CNNIC's current implementation Tools: Impls: @penWebmail @penWebmail simple UA Hacked-Postfix Hacked-Postfix MailStore Docs: [S+U+d] [S+U+d] [S+U+d] [S+U] Funcs: UA============>MSA===============>MDA------------->UA Proto: submission SMTP file(mbox) (SMTP) UA: @penWebmail or a simple mail user agent developed by CNNIC [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop The sender uses openweb or a simple UA to submit the message to postfix SMTP server which sends the message to the remote SMTP server. The remote SMTP server(postfix) delivers the message to Open Web or Mailstore. The reciver get the message via Open Web or MailStroe. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TWNIC's implementation Tools: (Procmail) Impls: Hacked-Semdmail @penWebmail +MIMEdefang @penWebmail Docs: [S+U] [S+U+d] [S+U] Funcs: UA============>MSA/MTA============>MDA------------->UA Proto: submission | ^ local file(mbox) (SMTP) | | SMTP| |SMTP v | MTA (outside) [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop MTA uses INET or SOCKET to commicate with Milter Program, each SMTP protocol negotiation can be injected Milter procudure, such as EHLO, MAIL, RCTP, and DATA. And Milter can get all ESMTP arguments such as (`NOTIFY` ,`ORCPT`... for 250-DSN, `BY` for 250-DELIVERBY, `AUTH` for SASL) Hack in sendmail was to relax all ascii (0x00~0xff) checks and MIMEdefang (Milter program) fetchs all ESMTP arguments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ JPRS' implementation Tools: (text editor+) (IM+) Impls: Sender Submission SMTPreceiver Downgrade Docs: [S+U] [S+U+d] [S+U] [S+U+e] Funcs: UA============>MSA===============>MDA------------->UA Proto: submission SMTP file(Maildir) (SMTP) [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop [e]: draft-(ietf|fujiwara)-eai-downgraded-display The Sender program reads the target SMTP/Submission server address, SMTP commands, SMTP Data from given files. File format and usages are described in the Sender program. Try perldoc Sender. The email originator must write complete message/global message with envelope and destination server information using text editors. The SMTPsender program send the specified message to the specified SMTP/submission server. It does not check UTF8SMTP option. Submission program waits on the submission port, processes SMTP submission, sends messages to the the recipients' MDA. It does not support DSN and error bouncing. It is invoked by inetd. If the recipient does not support UTF8SMTP extension, Submission program tries to downgrade. SMTPreceiver waits on the SMTP port, and receives messages to the local recipients' mailboxes. It is invoked by inetd. The mailbox format is Maildir. Downgrade program can perform UTF8SMTP downgrading and display downgraded messages. IM program can read user's mailboxes into MH style mailboxes. It can handle UTF8 messages, as is. Users can manipulate messages using imls, imcat commands. 'imcat | Downgrade -2' decodes downgraded message. IM is an Email client interface programs developed by IM development team. http://tats.hauN.org/im/ Downgrade, SMTPreceiver, Sender, Submission are developed by Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS. http://member.wide.ad.jp/~fujiwara/eai-prototype-20080312.tar.gz I prepared my Email address. Please send me UTF8SMTP emails. code: U+85E4 U+539F @ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp UTF8: \xe8\x97\xa4\xe5\x8e\x9f@\xe6\x97\xa5\xe6\x9c\xac\xe8\xaa\x9e.dnslab.jp ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, -- Yoshiro YONEYA _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 14 17:16:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F2A28C193; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:16:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.457, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6zTTex4-SFxq; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76AD28C139; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27953A68BC for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:16:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kkf+EOzPnJiJ for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail00.afilias.info (mail02.afilias.info [69.46.107.12]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16163A6885 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AFILIAS125 (c-68-83-237-215.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [68.83.237.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail00.afilias.info (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m2F0DxKs031728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:14:01 -0400 Message-ID: <01fe01c88631$782aced0$45fda8c0@afilias.com> From: "Ram Mohan" To: "Yoshiro YONEYA" , References: <20080314033735.d7bc3652.yone@jprs.co.jp> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:46 -0400 Organization: Afilias Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6234/Fri Mar 14 14:12:40 2008 on mail00.afilias.info X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Envelope-To: Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI implementations and interoperability testing X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Afilias has an EAI implementation and would like to participate in the interoperability testing. I know that our team members performed some ad-hoc tests this week at the IETF meeting in Philadelphia with Kazunori Fujiwara of JPRS, where we sent email from our EAI Sandbox to his UTF8 Japanese address. He received it fine and we were also able to receive his reply. More to come from our end. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President Chief Technology Officer Afilias | Canada | India | Ireland | USA e: rmohan@afilias.info p: +1.215.706.5700 | f: +1.215.706.5701 m: +1.215.431.0958 Skype: gliderpilot30 | Jabber: rmohan@jabber.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yoshiro YONEYA" To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: [EAI] EAI implementations and interoperability testing > Dear all, > > Followings are summary of EAI implementations that CNNIC, TWNC and JPRS > are developing for protocol evaluation. I think it is a good timing to > start interoperability test. Please let me know if you have > implementation > and wish to start interoperability test with. > > We don't have test scenarios and test cases yet, but I think a few > typical cases will be enough at the very beginning, for example a UA > sends an EAI message to a MSA/MTA. Any comments and suggestions are > welcome. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CNNIC's current implementation > > Tools: > Impls: @penWebmail @penWebmail > simple UA Hacked-Postfix Hacked-Postfix MailStore > Docs: [S+U+d] [S+U+d] [S+U+d] [S+U] > Funcs: UA============>MSA===============>MDA------------->UA > Proto: submission SMTP file(mbox) > (SMTP) > > UA: @penWebmail or a simple mail user agent developed by CNNIC > > [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext > [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers > [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn > [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade > [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop > > The sender uses openweb or a simple UA to submit the message to postfix > SMTP server which sends the message to the remote SMTP server. > The remote SMTP server(postfix) delivers the message to Open Web or > Mailstore. The reciver get the message via Open Web or MailStroe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > TWNIC's implementation > > Tools: (Procmail) > Impls: Hacked-Semdmail > @penWebmail +MIMEdefang @penWebmail > Docs: [S+U] [S+U+d] [S+U] > Funcs: UA============>MSA/MTA============>MDA------------->UA > Proto: submission | ^ local file(mbox) > (SMTP) | | > SMTP| |SMTP > v | > MTA > (outside) > > [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext > [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers > [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn > [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade > [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop > > MTA uses INET or SOCKET to commicate with Milter Program, each SMTP > protocol negotiation can be injected Milter procudure, such as EHLO, > MAIL, RCTP, and DATA. > And Milter can get all ESMTP arguments such as (`NOTIFY` ,`ORCPT`... > for 250-DSN, `BY` for 250-DELIVERBY, `AUTH` for SASL) > > Hack in sendmail was to relax all ascii (0x00~0xff) checks and > MIMEdefang (Milter program) fetchs all ESMTP arguments. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > JPRS' implementation > > Tools: (text editor+) (IM+) > Impls: Sender Submission SMTPreceiver Downgrade > Docs: [S+U] [S+U+d] [S+U] [S+U+e] > Funcs: UA============>MSA===============>MDA------------->UA > Proto: submission SMTP file(Maildir) > (SMTP) > > [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext > [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers > [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn > [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade > [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop > [e]: draft-(ietf|fujiwara)-eai-downgraded-display > > The Sender program reads the target SMTP/Submission server address, > SMTP commands, SMTP Data from given files. File format and usages are > described in the Sender program. Try perldoc Sender. > > The email originator must write complete message/global message with > envelope and destination server information using text editors. The > SMTPsender program send the specified message to the specified > SMTP/submission server. It does not check UTF8SMTP option. > > Submission program waits on the submission port, processes SMTP > submission, sends messages to the the recipients' MDA. It does not > support DSN and error bouncing. It is invoked by inetd. If the > recipient does not support UTF8SMTP extension, Submission program > tries to downgrade. > > SMTPreceiver waits on the SMTP port, and receives messages to the > local recipients' mailboxes. It is invoked by inetd. The mailbox > format is Maildir. > > Downgrade program can perform UTF8SMTP downgrading and display > downgraded messages. > > IM program can read user's mailboxes into MH style mailboxes. It can > handle UTF8 messages, as is. Users can manipulate messages using > imls, imcat commands. > > 'imcat | Downgrade -2' decodes downgraded message. > > IM is an Email client interface programs developed by IM development team. > http://tats.hauN.org/im/ > > Downgrade, SMTPreceiver, Sender, Submission are developed by > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS. > > http://member.wide.ad.jp/~fujiwara/eai-prototype-20080312.tar.gz > > > I prepared my Email address. Please send me UTF8SMTP emails. > > code: U+85E4 U+539F @ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp > UTF8: > \xe8\x97\xa4\xe5\x8e\x9f@\xe6\x97\xa5\xe6\x9c\xac\xe8\xaa\x9e.dnslab.jp > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Regards, > > -- > Yoshiro YONEYA > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 17 07:01:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5146F3A6D5D; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:01:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.085 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.085 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.648, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wtz+yP5I2geI; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 918B73A6B98; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:01:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D823A69F7 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:01:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xAP7uZGJsH0z for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.ca.afilias.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFB13A6A76 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dev19.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.136]) by mx4.ca.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1JbFs2-0000de-PU for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:59:22 -0400 Message-ID: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:55:42 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20071019) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: edainow@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org When sending email from an address containing an ASCII local name and a non-ASCII domain to an all ASCII recipient on a non-UTF8SMTP system, a downgrade should occur. Following the current EAI drafts, downgrade fails if there is no Alternate Address provided for the sender. In this case, an Alternate Address is not really required, as the sender's address can be represented in ASCII by doing a punycode conversion on the domain part of the address. There is also a similar case when the recipient address is of the form ascii@utf8.domain. There are several ways to address these cases: 1. No change to the current drafts. It is the responsibility of the sender to provide an Alternate Address if they want Downgrade to occur. They can provide the punycode equivalent address as an Alternate Address. 2. The MUA can automatically do punycode conversions for these cases when Alternate Addresses are not provided by the user. 3. Downgrade should do a punycode conversion instead of failing because of no Alternate Address. Since attempting delivery is almost always better than failing a delivery, I would support adding a requirement to do the punycode conversion for these cases in the Downgrade specification. Ernie Dainow _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 17 12:14:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD213A6DF2; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.551, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h-ZdDhXL-Mx2; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC1093A6BFE; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8242E3A68B7 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p9bKd2ZIatrO for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15833A6870 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JbKkL-0008Hw-FS for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:11:45 +0000 Received: from hmbg-d9b88e0a.pool.mediaways.net ([217.184.142.10]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:11:45 +0000 Received: from nobody by hmbg-d9b88e0a.pool.mediaways.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:11:45 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ima@ietf.org From: "Frank Ellermann" Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:14:15 +0100 Organization: Lines: 23 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: hmbg-d9b88e0a.pool.mediaways.net X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 Cc: spf-discuss@v2.listbox.com Subject: [EAI] I-D.spf-eai X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Ellermann List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org About a year ago I promised to post a draft explaining how EAI and SPF can be used simultaneously, here's the first attempt: Frank --- A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Sender Policy Framework: Email Address Internationalization Author(s) : F. Ellermann Filename : draft-ellermann-spf-eai-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2008-03-17 UTF8SMTP is an extension of SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol) allowing the use of UTF-8 in the SMTP envelope for EAI (Email Address Internationalization) and other purposes. This memo discusses some consequences for SPF (Sender Policy Framework). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ellermann-spf-eai-00.txt _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 17 18:35:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA1528C229; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AG3HoswShB7c; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAFD3A6E5D; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:35:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585BD3A69B4 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:35:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0blQAYn2QcEP for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7285C3A68DB for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88CF72597D9; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:32:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05093-10; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:32:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.54] (162.80-203-220.nextgentel.com [80.203.220.162]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2042597D1; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:32:40 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:34:12 +0100 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ernie Dainow References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Ernie Dainow skrev: > When sending email from an address containing an ASCII local name and a > non-ASCII domain to an all ASCII recipient on a non-UTF8SMTP system, a > downgrade should occur. Following the current EAI drafts, downgrade > fails if there is no Alternate Address provided for the sender. In this > case, an Alternate Address is not really required, as the sender's > address can be represented in ASCII by doing a punycode conversion on > the domain part of the address. There is also a similar case when the > recipient address is of the form ascii@utf8.domain. > > There are several ways to address these cases: > 1. No change to the current drafts. It is the responsibility of the > sender to provide an Alternate Address if they want Downgrade to occur. > They can provide the punycode equivalent address as an Alternate Address. > 2. The MUA can automatically do punycode conversions for these cases > when Alternate Addresses are not provided by the user. > 3. Downgrade should do a punycode conversion instead of failing because > of no Alternate Address. > > Since attempting delivery is almost always better than failing a > delivery, I would support adding a requirement to do the punycode > conversion for these cases in the Downgrade specification. For the case of non-ASCII localparts, this has been discussed extensively, and version 3 has been consistently rejected by the WG. I haven't seen a discussion that focused on the ASCII@non-ASCII situation. Harald _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 17 19:07:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2BEC3A6EB3; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <9ozLLLU21doz> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.726 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.726 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ozLLLU21doz; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A173A6E7C; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7873A6E3A for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1EJYw1MBTyF for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7632D3A6CF2 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:05:02 +0800 Message-ID: <405805902.04105@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO yaojk) (218.241.111.35) by 159.226.7.146 with SMTP; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:05:02 +0800 Message-ID: <059d01c8889c$7b37cf70$236ff1da@yaojk> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "Ernie Dainow" , References: <405762358.19080@cnnic.cn> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:05:03 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie Dainow" To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade > When sending email from an address containing an ASCII local name and a > non-ASCII domain to an all ASCII recipient on a non-UTF8SMTP system, a > downgrade should occur. Following the current EAI drafts, downgrade > fails if there is no Alternate Address provided for the sender. In this > case, an Alternate Address is not really required, as the sender's > address can be represented in ASCII by doing a punycode conversion on > the domain part of the address. There is also a similar case when the > recipient address is of the form ascii@utf8.domain. > > There are several ways to address these cases: > 1. No change to the current drafts. It is the responsibility of the > sender to provide an Alternate Address if they want Downgrade to occur. for the case of the form ascii@utf8.domain, I still prefer this option. if domain part is represented as the form of punycode but the receiver smtp and client may not know the non-ASCII domain, the email address must be in the form of ascii@xn--abcdwqerqewrqwe. if this kind of address of ascii@xn--abcdwqerqewrqwe is presented to the human, it is very unfriendly. just my personal view. Yao Jiankang CNNIC > They can provide the punycode equivalent address as an Alternate Address. > 2. The MUA can automatically do punycode conversions for these cases > when Alternate Addresses are not provided by the user. > 3. Downgrade should do a punycode conversion instead of failing because > of no Alternate Address. > > Since attempting delivery is almost always better than failing a > delivery, I would support adding a requirement to do the punycode > conversion for these cases in the Downgrade specification. > > Ernie Dainow > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 09:27:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A87D28C21A; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:27:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.653 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.216, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z81Xc+rq5I5l; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD643A6F12; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:27:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290273A6F01 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W6c+u3GNuM0Z for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976BB3A6F12 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=p3.JCK.COM) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Jbecc-000O6F-NS; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:25:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:25:05 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand , Ernie Dainow Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 02:34 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: >> 3. Downgrade should do a punycode conversion instead of >> failing because of no Alternate Address. >> >> Since attempting delivery is almost always better than >> failing a delivery, I would support adding a requirement to >> do the punycode conversion for these cases in the Downgrade >> specification. > For the case of non-ASCII localparts, this has been discussed > extensively, and version 3 has been consistently rejected by > the WG. > > I haven't seen a discussion that focused on the > ASCII@non-ASCII situation. It seems to me that we have a tradeoff. As Yao points out, no presentation of punycode to a user is user-friendly. Punycode encoding can also be used to disguise various types of attacks that would be obvious if the string were presented in "native" form -- an analogy to the use of IP addresses, rather than domain names, in URLs might apply here. One can say "Since attempting delivery is almost always better than failing...", but perhaps this is one of the exceptions in which it is better to get the failure message back to the sender and sending MUA in the hope of getting the punycode change made there (or some other decision being made). In any event, it seems to me that the case for _requiring_ punycode conversion as a downgrade method is weaker than some of this discussion would indicate. john _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 14:09:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466E728C65D; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.439 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.439 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zshf5qFlTwQm; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55AFE28C63E; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38E928C5A1 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xEWgivMpdbvm for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.ca.afilias.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAFEF28C27C for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dev19.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.136]) by mx4.ca.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Jbj1t-0000Ep-5p; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:07:29 -0400 Message-ID: <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:03:26 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20071019) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John C Klensin References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: edainow@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org John C Klensin wrote: > --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 02:34 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand > wrote: > > >>> 3. Downgrade should do a punycode conversion instead of >>> failing because of no Alternate Address. >>> >>> Since attempting delivery is almost always better than >>> failing a delivery, I would support adding a requirement to >>> do the punycode conversion for these cases in the Downgrade >>> specification. >>> >> For the case of non-ASCII localparts, this has been discussed >> extensively, and version 3 has been consistently rejected by >> the WG. >> >> I haven't seen a discussion that focused on the >> ASCII@non-ASCII situation. >> > > It seems to me that we have a tradeoff. As Yao points out, no > presentation of punycode to a user is user-friendly. Punycode > encoding can also be used to disguise various types of attacks > that would be obvious if the string were presented in "native" > form -- an analogy to the use of IP addresses, rather than > domain names, in URLs might apply here. One can say "Since > attempting delivery is almost always better than failing...", > but perhaps this is one of the exceptions in which it is better > to get the failure message back to the sender and sending MUA in > the hope of getting the punycode change made there (or some > other decision being made). > > In any event, it seems to me that the case for _requiring_ > punycode conversion as a downgrade method is weaker than some of > this discussion would indicate. > > john > The user interface at the recipient can and probably should translate punycode domains back to the original UTF8. Web browsers do this (at least Firefox and Internet Explorer). If you enter a punycode domain in the url field, the browser will translate it to UTF8 if you have the appropriate fonts installed. Email clients should provide a similar translation for email addresses containing punycode domains that are to be displayed to the user. I can add this to the Email Client guidelines document. If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very few IDNA literate users might figure out how to do a punycode conversion and use it as an Alternate Address. Most users would have to revert to using a traditional email client. One can also argue that this case will not be very common, as an organization that sets up email accounts using an Internationalized domain name would surely use EAI email software. However, during the transition period that we are in (internationalized domains are being registered), this case may occur often enough that Downgrade should handle it. Ernie _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 14:24:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774BC28C23E; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.653 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.216, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pY6fQFXNTMRc; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A843B28C1DA; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B222C28C1DA for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hdkMQ+DkhfMq for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D3E28C541 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F993259808; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:22:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15174-04; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.54] (162.80-203-220.nextgentel.com [80.203.220.162]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BA2259802; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <47E032D5.2080601@alvestrand.no> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:23:33 +0100 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ernie Dainow References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Ernie Dainow skrev: > > If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form > ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very few IDNA > literate users might figure out how to do a punycode conversion and > use it as an Alternate Address. Most users would have to revert to > using a traditional email client. Well, there are some possibilities for why we get that situation: - User (or admin) has forgotten to set the Alternate Address (misconfiguration). Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender that there's a misconfiguratoin? - User (or admin) has decided that he doesn't care whether or not messages get to non-UTF8SMTP users. Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender that his wishes have been "honored"? - User (or admin) expected this message to go to only UTF8SMTP users. Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender that his expectation was unrealistic? Note: I don't know whether the answers are one or the other. But I can see arguments on both sides of the issue - "pass the message" is not necessarily always the right choice. Harald _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 15:49:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B1B3A697B; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.746 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.746 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.309, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WtPTgihjT8aD; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1523528C436; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65EC13A6CBE for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id REamBqjqcSu2 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D013A697B for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=p3.JCK.COM) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Jbkal-000G2r-4t; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:47:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:47:32 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand , Ernie Dainow Message-ID: <73BC823787D3DCBD276BF77B@p3.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <47E032D5.2080601@alvestrand.no> References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> <47E032D5.2080601@alvestrand.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 22:23 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > Ernie Dainow skrev: >> >> If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form >> ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very >> few IDNA literate users might figure out how to do a >> punycode conversion and use it as an Alternate Address. Most >> users would have to revert to using a traditional email >> client. > Well, there are some possibilities for why we get that > situation: > > - User (or admin) has forgotten to set the Alternate Address > (misconfiguration). Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass > the message or to report to the sender that there's a > misconfiguratoin? > > - User (or admin) has decided that he doesn't care whether or > not messages get to non-UTF8SMTP users. Is it better for a > mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender > that his wishes have been "honored"? > > - User (or admin) expected this message to go to only UTF8SMTP > users. Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or > to report to the sender that his expectation was unrealistic? > > Note: I don't know whether the answers are one or the other. > But I can see arguments on both sides of the issue - "pass the > message" is not necessarily always the right choice. I think we are on the same page. I don't know what the right answer is (either), but "convert and pass" is not as obvious to me as it apparently is to Ernie. Two other observations: * I haven't seen an analysis of the potential "leakage" cases, and whether or not they are a problem, yet. * Unless we get IDNA200X through, and get to an end result with no input-side mapping, Ernie's comment "The user interface at the recipient can and probably should translate punycode domains back to the original UTF8" is basically not possible to satisfy. The interface can translate back to some approximation to the "original" UTF8, but, since IDNA2003 ToASCII provides a many (perhaps one should say "many-many") to one mapping, the receiving MUA will not have sufficient information to reconstruct the original UTF8, only an IDNA-equivalent version of it. --john _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 19:40:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DC828C3B4; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:40:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLaYaQa1S4yt; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595913A6966; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516533A6966 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:40:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AEbXuPkC82GO for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0297D3A6891 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:37:47 +0800 Message-ID: <405894267.31162@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO yaojk) (218.241.111.35) by 159.226.7.146 with SMTP; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:37:47 +0800 Message-ID: <001901c8896a$3915fc60$236ff1da@yaojk> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "Ernie Dainow" , "John C Klensin" References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> <405874465.10793@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:37:49 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie Dainow" To: "John C Klensin" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade > > John C Klensin wrote: >> --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 02:34 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand >> wrote: >> >> >>>> 3. Downgrade should do a punycode conversion instead of >>>> failing because of no Alternate Address. >>>> >>>> Since attempting delivery is almost always better than >>>> failing a delivery, I would support adding a requirement to >>>> do the punycode conversion for these cases in the Downgrade >>>> specification. >>>> >>> For the case of non-ASCII localparts, this has been discussed >>> extensively, and version 3 has been consistently rejected by >>> the WG. >>> >>> I haven't seen a discussion that focused on the >>> ASCII@non-ASCII situation. >>> >> >> It seems to me that we have a tradeoff. As Yao points out, no >> presentation of punycode to a user is user-friendly. Punycode >> encoding can also be used to disguise various types of attacks >> that would be obvious if the string were presented in "native" >> form -- an analogy to the use of IP addresses, rather than >> domain names, in URLs might apply here. One can say "Since >> attempting delivery is almost always better than failing...", >> but perhaps this is one of the exceptions in which it is better >> to get the failure message back to the sender and sending MUA in >> the hope of getting the punycode change made there (or some >> other decision being made). >> >> In any event, it seems to me that the case for _requiring_ >> punycode conversion as a downgrade method is weaker than some of >> this discussion would indicate. >> >> john >> > The user interface at the recipient can and probably should translate > punycode domains back to the original UTF8. Web browsers do this (at > least Firefox and Internet Explorer). If you enter a punycode domain in > the url field, the browser will translate it to UTF8 if you have the > appropriate fonts installed. Email clients should provide a similar > translation for email addresses containing punycode domains that are to > be displayed to the user. my concern is that if the reciever smtp server is not EAI-compatible, the recipient is more unlikely to use an EAI-compatible email client. so the form presented to the user has to be the form of unfriendly punycode version if the punycode form is produced in the email client . Yao Jiankang > I can add this to the Email Client guidelines > document. > > If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form > ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very few IDNA > literate users might figure out how to do a punycode conversion and use > it as an Alternate Address. Most users would have to revert to using a > traditional email client. > > One can also argue that this case will not be very common, as an > organization that sets up email accounts using an Internationalized > domain name would surely use EAI email software. However, during the > transition period that we are in (internationalized domains are being > registered), this case may occur often enough that Downgrade should > handle it. > > Ernie > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 21:09:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A9D3A6E46; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:09:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.737, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0F3OSoaAZbs3; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4557E3A6D3F; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A1D3A6D3F for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:08:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OkErTUaGQTYp for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (send01.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.113]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8F23A682B for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with SMTP id m2J45uaA028721 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:05:56 +0900 (JST) Received: (from localhost [172.18.4.61]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (SMSSMTP 4.0.4.64) with SMTP id M2008031913055614377 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:05:56 +0900 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:05:56 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20080319.130556.189697968.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: ima@ietf.org From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2.52 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [EAI] ascii@UTF-8 and ascii@Punycode X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Is ASCII@UTF-8 equal to ASCII@Punycode ? I prepared UTF8SMTP Email address: fujiwara@ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp. MX resolution for fujiwara@ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp results the same SMTP server for XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp, but the SMTP server can be configured to reject "fujiwara@XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp". I should accept "fujiwara@XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp" ? Currently, I allow both addresses. Regards, -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 18 22:21:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B763A6DE3; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <7xGaMfkqCxyK> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.125 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.125 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.057, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7xGaMfkqCxyK; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA083A6900; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6223A6900 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yn5Vbj4bbsba for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FAAB3A69AE for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:18:44 +0800 Message-ID: <405903924.06085@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO yaojk) (218.241.111.35) by 159.226.7.146 with SMTP; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:18:44 +0800 Message-ID: <009801c88980$b60e7880$236ff1da@yaojk> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: , References: <405899673.30736@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:18:48 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [EAI] ascii@UTF-8 and ascii@Punycode X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:05 PM Subject: [EAI] ascii@UTF-8 and ascii@Punycode > Is ASCII@UTF-8 equal to ASCII@Punycode ? yes, I think so. > > I prepared UTF8SMTP Email address: fujiwara@ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp. > > MX resolution for fujiwara@ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp results > the same SMTP server for XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp, but the SMTP server > can be configured to reject "fujiwara@XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp". > > I should accept "fujiwara@XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp" ? yes. > > Currently, I allow both addresses. > > Regards, > > -- > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 19 08:17:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0FE28C239; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5gTPJ0+j1Z9t; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B6E28C1FC; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:17:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82D128C31B for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:17:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XLI-1NMIegDy for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.ca.afilias.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0180428C26C for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dev19.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.136]) by mx4.ca.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Jc00Y-00063W-Bj; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:15:14 -0400 Message-ID: <47E12D02.8030800@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:10:58 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20071019) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John C Klensin References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> <47E032D5.2080601@alvestrand.no> <73BC823787D3DCBD276BF77B@p3.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <73BC823787D3DCBD276BF77B@p3.JCK.COM> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: edainow@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org John C Klensin wrote: > --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 22:23 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand > wrote: > > >> Ernie Dainow skrev: >> >>> If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form >>> ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very >>> few IDNA literate users might figure out how to do a >>> punycode conversion and use it as an Alternate Address. Most >>> users would have to revert to using a traditional email >>> client. >>> >> Well, there are some possibilities for why we get that >> situation: >> >> - User (or admin) has forgotten to set the Alternate Address >> (misconfiguration). Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass >> the message or to report to the sender that there's a >> misconfiguratoin? >> >> - User (or admin) has decided that he doesn't care whether or >> not messages get to non-UTF8SMTP users. Is it better for a >> mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender >> that his wishes have been "honored"? >> >> - User (or admin) expected this message to go to only UTF8SMTP >> users. Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or >> to report to the sender that his expectation was unrealistic? >> >> Note: I don't know whether the answers are one or the other. >> But I can see arguments on both sides of the issue - "pass the >> message" is not necessarily always the right choice. >> > > I think we are on the same page. I don't know what the right > answer is (either), but "convert and pass" is not as obvious to > me as it apparently is to Ernie. > Yes these are all possible scenarios, but whether the receiver is UTF8SMTP compliant or not is of interest to a relatively few number of technically knowledgeable email users compared to the millions of average email users who basically just want to see their email get delivered. After all, wasn't Downgrade included in the specification for exactly this reason -- to keep email flowing during an interim period when there is a mix of traditional and UTF8SMTP email systems? The failure situation here is a lack of inter-operability between EAI and "IDNA" email. By IDNA email I mean a traditional email system in which the email client has been modified in accordance with RFC3490, so that users are able to enter email addresses with UTF8 domains (but the local part is restricted to all ASCII). The email client does punycode conversions on the domain part so that the messages sent are traditional email. I know there is one implementation that does this; I don't know how much it is used at this point. As the time stretches out to 2009 to get a standards track EAI completed, these "IDNA" email systems might be more widely used. So we have a situation where EAI supports traditional email via Downgrade but possibly not "IDNA" email. As a concrete example of this, ICANN has an email test page for testing International top level domains at http://idn.icann.org/E-mail_test. Their second test is to copy an email address of the form ascii@non-ascii into an email client. Our current EAI implementation fails this test, following a strict adherence to the current EAI specs. I don't see any reason an implementation can't decide it will do the punycode conversion in Downgrade. It is supported by section 2.2 in draft-ietf-eai-smtpext: "An SMTP Client . . . MAY transmit the domain parts of mailbox names within SMTP commands or the message header in either the form of ACE labels as specified in IDNA [RFC3490] or as UTF-8 strings." If we leave this decision up to the implementation, then we have a situation where EAI may or may not inter-operate with IDNA email. I think it would be better to have a clear statement on this, either EAI supports inter-operability with IDNA email or it does not. Ernie _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 19 12:11:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6927828C597; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.462 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.462 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L3+yMOf4Hbzb; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF5C828C47E; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A93428C47E for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V54+BZZyrpEV for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40CF528C322 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9991C259725; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:08:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22554-10; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:08:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.54] (162.80-203-220.nextgentel.com [80.203.220.162]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8257C259712; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:08:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <47E16528.6050804@alvestrand.no> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:10:32 +0100 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080227) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ernie Dainow References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> <47E032D5.2080601@alvestrand.no> <73BC823787D3DCBD276BF77B@p3.JCK.COM> <47E12D02.8030800@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <47E12D02.8030800@ca.afilias.info> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Ernie Dainow skrev: > > John C Klensin wrote: >> --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 22:23 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand >> wrote: >> >> >>> Ernie Dainow skrev: >>> >>>> If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form >>>> ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very >>>> few IDNA literate users might figure out how to do a >>>> punycode conversion and use it as an Alternate Address. Most >>>> users would have to revert to using a traditional email >>>> client. >>> Well, there are some possibilities for why we get that >>> situation: >>> >>> - User (or admin) has forgotten to set the Alternate Address >>> (misconfiguration). Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass >>> the message or to report to the sender that there's a >>> misconfiguratoin? >>> >>> - User (or admin) has decided that he doesn't care whether or >>> not messages get to non-UTF8SMTP users. Is it better for a >>> mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender >>> that his wishes have been "honored"? >>> >>> - User (or admin) expected this message to go to only UTF8SMTP >>> users. Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or >>> to report to the sender that his expectation was unrealistic? >>> >>> Note: I don't know whether the answers are one or the other. >>> But I can see arguments on both sides of the issue - "pass the >>> message" is not necessarily always the right choice. >>> >> >> I think we are on the same page. I don't know what the right >> answer is (either), but "convert and pass" is not as obvious to >> me as it apparently is to Ernie. >> > Yes these are all possible scenarios, but whether the receiver is > UTF8SMTP compliant or not is of interest to a relatively few number of > technically knowledgeable email users compared to the millions of > average email users who basically just want to see their email get > delivered. After all, wasn't Downgrade included in the specification > for exactly this reason -- to keep email flowing during an interim > period when there is a mix of traditional and UTF8SMTP email systems? > > The failure situation here is a lack of inter-operability between EAI > and "IDNA" email. By IDNA email I mean a traditional email system in > which the email client has been modified in accordance with RFC3490, > so that users are able to enter email addresses with UTF8 domains (but > the local part is restricted to all ASCII). The email client does > punycode conversions on the domain part so that the messages sent are > traditional email. I know there is one implementation that does this; > I don't know how much it is used at this point. As the time stretches > out to 2009 to get a standards track EAI completed, these "IDNA" email > systems might be more widely used. So we have a situation where EAI > supports traditional email via Downgrade but possibly not "IDNA" email. > > As a concrete example of this, ICANN has an email test page for > testing International top level domains at > http://idn.icann.org/E-mail_test. Their second test is to copy an > email address of the form ascii@non-ascii into an email client. Into the "from" or the "to" fields? My opinion is slightly different for the two cases.... > Our current EAI implementation fails this test, following a strict > adherence to the current EAI specs. I don't see any reason an > implementation can't decide it will do the punycode conversion in > Downgrade. It is supported by section 2.2 in draft-ietf-eai-smtpext: > "An SMTP Client . . . MAY transmit the domain parts of mailbox names > within SMTP commands or the message header in either the form of ACE > labels as specified in IDNA [RFC3490] or as UTF-8 strings." If we > leave this decision up to the implementation, then we have a situation > where EAI may or may not inter-operate with IDNA email. I think it > would be better to have a clear statement on this, either EAI supports > inter-operability with IDNA email or it does not. > > Ernie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 19 13:09:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2BF83A6975; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:09:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J4Gp3GmMDYeZ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DB63A6F03; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:08:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA8F3A6D3C for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:08:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OrXof6mrfGkc for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.ca.afilias.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DD13A6888 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from idn-test.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.133]) by mx4.ca.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Jc4Y0-00028L-SW; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:06:04 -0400 Message-ID: <47E1722C.5000107@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:06:04 -0400 From: Joseph Yee User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoshiro YONEYA References: <20080314033735.d7bc3652.yone@jprs.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <20080314033735.d7bc3652.yone@jprs.co.jp> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jyee@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI implementations and interoperability testing X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Greeting, This is our follow up email for our interest to participate the interoperability test. We have our implementation description below. Thanks. Regards, Joseph ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Afilias's implementation Sending: (MUA) (MSA/MTA) Horde ==========> Sendmail =======> {INET} --> [S,U,d] SMTP [S,U,D,d] SMTP Delivery: (MTA) (MDA) (MS) {INET} ------> Sendmail -------> Maildrop --> Maildir SMTP [S,U,D,d] Receiving: (Message Store) (MAA) (MUA) Maildir <---------- Dovecot --------> Horde (I) (I,U,d) IMAP (I) Legend: MAA - Mail Access Agent [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade [I]: draft-ieft-eai-imap ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yoshiro YONEYA wrote: > Dear all, > > Followings are summary of EAI implementations that CNNIC, TWNC and JPRS > are developing for protocol evaluation. I think it is a good timing to > start interoperability test. Please let me know if you have implementation > and wish to start interoperability test with. > > We don't have test scenarios and test cases yet, but I think a few > typical cases will be enough at the very beginning, for example a UA > sends an EAI message to a MSA/MTA. Any comments and suggestions are > welcome. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CNNIC's current implementation > > Tools: > Impls: @penWebmail @penWebmail > simple UA Hacked-Postfix Hacked-Postfix MailStore > Docs: [S+U+d] [S+U+d] [S+U+d] [S+U] > Funcs: UA============>MSA===============>MDA------------->UA > Proto: submission SMTP file(mbox) > (SMTP) > > UA: @penWebmail or a simple mail user agent developed by CNNIC > > [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext > [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers > [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn > [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade > [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop > > The sender uses openweb or a simple UA to submit the message to postfix > SMTP server which sends the message to the remote SMTP server. > The remote SMTP server(postfix) delivers the message to Open Web or > Mailstore. The reciver get the message via Open Web or MailStroe. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > TWNIC's implementation > > Tools: (Procmail) > Impls: Hacked-Semdmail > @penWebmail +MIMEdefang @penWebmail > Docs: [S+U] [S+U+d] [S+U] > Funcs: UA============>MSA/MTA============>MDA------------->UA > Proto: submission | ^ local file(mbox) > (SMTP) | | > SMTP| |SMTP > v | > MTA > (outside) > > [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext > [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers > [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn > [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade > [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop > > MTA uses INET or SOCKET to commicate with Milter Program, each SMTP > protocol negotiation can be injected Milter procudure, such as EHLO, > MAIL, RCTP, and DATA. > And Milter can get all ESMTP arguments such as (`NOTIFY` ,`ORCPT`... > for 250-DSN, `BY` for 250-DELIVERBY, `AUTH` for SASL) > > Hack in sendmail was to relax all ascii (0x00~0xff) checks and > MIMEdefang (Milter program) fetchs all ESMTP arguments. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > JPRS' implementation > > Tools: (text editor+) (IM+) > Impls: Sender Submission SMTPreceiver Downgrade > Docs: [S+U] [S+U+d] [S+U] [S+U+e] > Funcs: UA============>MSA===============>MDA------------->UA > Proto: submission SMTP file(Maildir) > (SMTP) > > [S]: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext > [U]: draft-ietf-eai-utf8headers > [D]: draft-ietf-eai-dsn > [d]: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade > [P]: draft-ietf-eai-pop > [e]: draft-(ietf|fujiwara)-eai-downgraded-display > > The Sender program reads the target SMTP/Submission server address, > SMTP commands, SMTP Data from given files. File format and usages are > described in the Sender program. Try perldoc Sender. > > The email originator must write complete message/global message with > envelope and destination server information using text editors. The > SMTPsender program send the specified message to the specified > SMTP/submission server. It does not check UTF8SMTP option. > > Submission program waits on the submission port, processes SMTP > submission, sends messages to the the recipients' MDA. It does not > support DSN and error bouncing. It is invoked by inetd. If the > recipient does not support UTF8SMTP extension, Submission program > tries to downgrade. > > SMTPreceiver waits on the SMTP port, and receives messages to the > local recipients' mailboxes. It is invoked by inetd. The mailbox > format is Maildir. > > Downgrade program can perform UTF8SMTP downgrading and display > downgraded messages. > > IM program can read user's mailboxes into MH style mailboxes. It can > handle UTF8 messages, as is. Users can manipulate messages using > imls, imcat commands. > > 'imcat | Downgrade -2' decodes downgraded message. > > IM is an Email client interface programs developed by IM development team. > http://tats.hauN.org/im/ > > Downgrade, SMTPreceiver, Sender, Submission are developed by > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS. > > http://member.wide.ad.jp/~fujiwara/eai-prototype-20080312.tar.gz > > > I prepared my Email address. Please send me UTF8SMTP emails. > > code: U+85E4 U+539F @ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp > UTF8: \xe8\x97\xa4\xe5\x8e\x9f@\xe6\x97\xa5\xe6\x9c\xac\xe8\xaa\x9e.dnslab.jp > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Regards, > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 20 08:45:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F7D28C20E; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:45:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.045 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.045 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.923, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EQwSx90hRo47; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA84228C3A3; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:45:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8F728C39F for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:45:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tlBzEbZSlb13 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.ca.afilias.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8273A68AB for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dev19.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.136]) by mx4.ca.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1JcMto-0005JJ-7g; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:41:48 -0400 Message-ID: <47E284AA.80505@ca.afilias.info> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:37:14 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20071019) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand References: <47DE785E.3080304@ca.afilias.info> <47DF1C14.7080708@alvestrand.no> <47E02E1E.1030200@ca.afilias.info> <47E032D5.2080601@alvestrand.no> <73BC823787D3DCBD276BF77B@p3.JCK.COM> <47E12D02.8030800@ca.afilias.info> <47E16528.6050804@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: <47E16528.6050804@alvestrand.no> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: edainow@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > Ernie Dainow skrev: >> >> John C Klensin wrote: >>> --On Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 22:23 +0100 Harald Tveit Alvestrand >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Ernie Dainow skrev: >>>> >>>>> If Downgrade fails when sending to a recipient of the form >>>>> ascii@non-ascii , what is the recourse for the user? A very >>>>> few IDNA literate users might figure out how to do a >>>>> punycode conversion and use it as an Alternate Address. Most >>>>> users would have to revert to using a traditional email >>>>> client. >>>> Well, there are some possibilities for why we get that >>>> situation: >>>> >>>> - User (or admin) has forgotten to set the Alternate Address >>>> (misconfiguration). Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass >>>> the message or to report to the sender that there's a >>>> misconfiguratoin? >>>> >>>> - User (or admin) has decided that he doesn't care whether or >>>> not messages get to non-UTF8SMTP users. Is it better for a >>>> mid-net relay to pass the message or to report to the sender >>>> that his wishes have been "honored"? >>>> >>>> - User (or admin) expected this message to go to only UTF8SMTP >>>> users. Is it better for a mid-net relay to pass the message or >>>> to report to the sender that his expectation was unrealistic? >>>> >>>> Note: I don't know whether the answers are one or the other. >>>> But I can see arguments on both sides of the issue - "pass the >>>> message" is not necessarily always the right choice. >>>> >>> >>> I think we are on the same page. I don't know what the right >>> answer is (either), but "convert and pass" is not as obvious to >>> me as it apparently is to Ernie. >>> >> Yes these are all possible scenarios, but whether the receiver is >> UTF8SMTP compliant or not is of interest to a relatively few number >> of technically knowledgeable email users compared to the millions of >> average email users who basically just want to see their email get >> delivered. After all, wasn't Downgrade included in the specification >> for exactly this reason -- to keep email flowing during an interim >> period when there is a mix of traditional and UTF8SMTP email systems? >> >> The failure situation here is a lack of inter-operability between EAI >> and "IDNA" email. By IDNA email I mean a traditional email system in >> which the email client has been modified in accordance with RFC3490, >> so that users are able to enter email addresses with UTF8 domains >> (but the local part is restricted to all ASCII). The email client >> does punycode conversions on the domain part so that the messages >> sent are traditional email. I know there is one implementation that >> does this; I don't know how much it is used at this point. As the >> time stretches out to 2009 to get a standards track EAI completed, >> these "IDNA" email systems might be more widely used. So we have a >> situation where EAI supports traditional email via Downgrade but >> possibly not "IDNA" email. >> >> As a concrete example of this, ICANN has an email test page for >> testing International top level domains at >> http://idn.icann.org/E-mail_test. Their second test is to copy an >> email address of the form ascii@non-ascii into an email client. > Into the "from" or the "to" fields? > My opinion is slightly different for the two cases.... This particular case was copied into the To field. More completely, the two failure cases are UTF8SMTP "IDNA" Server 1) From: ascii@ascii. To: ascii@non-ascii 2) From: ascii@non-ascii To: ascii@ascii No Alternate Addresses for any. Note that if the user replaces the non-ascii domain with its punycode translation, the email is sent. >> Our current EAI implementation fails this test, following a strict >> adherence to the current EAI specs. I don't see any reason an >> implementation can't decide it will do the punycode conversion in >> Downgrade. It is supported by section 2.2 in draft-ietf-eai-smtpext: >> "An SMTP Client . . . MAY transmit the domain parts of mailbox names >> within SMTP commands or the message header in either the form of ACE >> labels as specified in IDNA [RFC3490] or as UTF-8 strings." If we >> leave this decision up to the implementation, then we have a >> situation where EAI may or may not inter-operate with IDNA email. I >> think it would be better to have a clear statement on this, either >> EAI supports inter-operability with IDNA email or it does not. >> >> Ernie >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 20 22:15:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C948F3A6A55; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:15:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.079 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.079 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.206, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S9tm+6uleGBW; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD323A68E0; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:15:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7517C3A6969 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:15:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jaAEoEaYwL39 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (send01.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.113]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7505E3A6907 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from send01.jprs.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with SMTP id m2L5D4aE021919; Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:13:21 +0900 (JST) Received: (from localhost [172.18.4.57]) by send01.jprs.co.jp (SMSSMTP 4.0.4.64) with SMTP id M2008032114131925521 ; Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:13:19 +0900 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:13:19 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20080321.141319.193710622.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: yaojk@cnnic.cn From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <405903924.06085@cnnic.cn> References: <405899673.30736@cnnic.cn> <405903924.06085@cnnic.cn> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2.52 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] ascii@UTF-8 and ascii@Punycode X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org > From: "YAO Jiankang" > > Is ASCII@UTF-8 equal to ASCII@Punycode ? > > yes, I think so. If ASCII@Punycode is equivalent to ASCII@UTF-8 and the SMTP server must receive both ASCII@Punycode and ASCII@UTF-8, The thread "Add requirement for punycode conversions in downgrade" results 2 or 3, I think. When downgrading, If no alt-address is specified for ASCII@UTF-8, ASCII@Punycode should be treated its alt-address. If MUA added alt-address, the downgrading uses it. -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS > > I prepared UTF8SMTP Email address: fujiwara@ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp. > > > > MX resolution for fujiwara@ U+65E5 U+672C U+8A9E .dnslab.jp results > > the same SMTP server for XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp, but the SMTP server > > can be configured to reject "fujiwara@XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp". > > > > I should accept "fujiwara@XN--WGV71A119E.dnslab.jp" ? > > yes. > > > > > > Currently, I allow both addresses. > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IMA mailing list > > IMA@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > > _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From ima-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 25 06:53:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ima-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EE128C49D; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:53:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.122 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.122 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.685, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6kGZwX0YU6uL; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F37F3A6EC7; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:53:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C9A33A6EA8 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:53:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V82G8jS1svX3 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B9E28C49D for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Je9Y1-0004is-U8 for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:50:42 +0000 Received: from hmbg-d9b88e16.pool.mediaways.net ([217.184.142.22]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:50:41 +0000 Received: from nobody by hmbg-d9b88e16.pool.mediaways.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:50:41 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ima@ietf.org From: "Frank Ellermann" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:53:01 +0100 Organization: Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <47E6D7D2.6090708@nsn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: hmbg-d9b88e16.pool.mediaways.net X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 Subject: Re: [EAI] Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-eai-smtpext-11.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Ellermann List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ima-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ima-bounces@ietf.org Miguel Garcia wrote on the Gen-ART list: > The ABNF in Section 2.3 includes: > ucharacter = atext / UTF8-non-ascii > ; Replace character in RFC 2821, section 4.1.2 > ; atext is defined in RFC 2822 > However, I didn't find the 'character' ABNF in RFC 2821. > Am I missing something or is there an oversight here? Good catch, I have no idea how this survived from -03 to -11, several folks including me checked the syntax more than once. The comment "; Replace character in RFC 2821, section 4.1.2" can be simply removed, is a new term. Skipping various good proposals to improve the IANA chapter, thanks, Frank _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima