From jyee@ca.afilias.info Mon Jun 15 13:05:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1172D3A6C3F for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.575, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NVcsf0fvbDJ for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B75F3A682A for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGIQa-0005qb-97 for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:05:12 +0000 Received: from [207.219.45.45] (helo=[10.10.68.32]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGIQa-0005A9-5O for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:05:12 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joseph Yee To: EAI WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:05:12 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Subject: [EAI] Regarding EAI-POP-05, UTF8 tag X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:05:07 -0000 Hi all, I re-read the latest version of eai-pop (05) and I think there were some should be deleted text from decision of changing to single mode- switch. Section 3 UTF8 Capability - current arguments have "USER, LIST, TOP" Since UTF8 is designed to use at authorization state only, LIST and TOP should remove from arguments. Suggested arguments list: Arguments: none, USER, APOP I don't know how it should present both empty and non-empty arguments in RFC. I'm suggesting that single command UTF8 (without any argument followed) could switch mode before authentication, hence I include "none" as possible argument. For "none" scenario: S: +OK POP3 server ready C: UTF8 S: +OK UTF8 POP3 enabled C: USER non-ascii-address S: +OK hello non-ascii-address C: PASS password ..... I'm also thinking that "UTF8 must have argument followed" is fine too, but my personal thought is that if so, it applies to USER and APOP only. Thoughts, everyone? Regards, Joseph From elec.arun@gmail.com Tue Jun 16 21:42:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1833A689F for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CAv9Ka-XUX-Y for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5642E3A68F4 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so62475qwe.31 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=08UowDd9mKVnZQ6gmyogXelI8ZcaS3fvFwzuXfWY11U=; b=wKOzuk/PKJWQ/UnVjskEUP+E2WfxXPaPb6f4ZnR1UlpOAKyeNxTDocb3s+7T3IQLKp +EFPx3tPvWDCFt2LpthzVGKIv8THkPeTJbwLgeeDsEY5xNjA+Ev4gy6LvHxQyqfKJUK/ 9p3MH0cUyXYt+5zArMpKAtMPClu9OVZJvxttg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=GE7g9d/Qk+XWJxGCf53hZ2C3z/btawGn+GnkJSUG2/YFuC8lZru5aQ6VBRKf5SGsyD 11ihWFpIv6/uTU3SZJyxHBf+ZWRzWMB/+yMTxp12jt4Rr/zpb5vNGlkmAJuGqSbnlY5/ BybCF1KmKLrZEYsgZnQ7BgbeAJvCpv0bjiH+A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.83.132 with SMTP id f4mr1698852qcl.47.1245213745426; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:12:25 +0530 Message-ID: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> From: arun gupta To: ima@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646d92cf73351046c83eafb Subject: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 04:49:08 -0000 --00163646d92cf73351046c83eafb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi e-Mail ID for example =E0=A4=A8=E0=A5=87=E0=A4=B9=E0=A4=BE@gmail.com what is the things we required for this feature. Please reply me. Thanking you. With Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta System Administrator Pune --00163646d92cf73351046c83eafb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All,

I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send = mail in hindi e-Mail ID for example=C2=A0 
=E0=A4=A8=E0=A5=87=
=E0=A4=B9=E0=A4=BE@gmail.com


what is the things we required for this feature.

Please reply me=
.  


Thanking you.


With Regards= ,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=C2=A0 =C2=A0System Administrator =C2=A0=C2=A0 Pune
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
--00163646d92cf73351046c83eafb-- From sm@resistor.net Tue Jun 16 22:49:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0983A6DC7 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:49:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.692 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.692 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UZ0IIBDK0JFn for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAD43A6DBF for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from subman.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.4.Alpha0/8.14.4.Alpha0) with ESMTP id n5H5ncGI002750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:49:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1245217787; x=1245304187; bh=q+p3eQlHFN5u5bTRthUhlEBPffTiHfItfAUM7JaftGg=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=Iq0cAZP2Y77NrnMdXQFtK9t/EepDGQoxF4MWIYB1YdP1bucOsm784dtHsi3jtTib1 9WGm28qHCbdS04YpIjGGITuiINmUZ1XV+wNRGxW3P0dPm8xVh/VcJKUcAyCi1jRr2h kDfc00TmXfenj7MMad+rqWzipJdR8Oj9mh9YA+co= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=tnmyvYNEeBboWewaCjYhunrDrZOLysxXtzrvWKDbUOD30SVN+Xcv5yHzftjSHAxvn y2fJPeh724f2QsOyBNu8nBm0rK/X67D2SrvPn7HJMCL1opUt+yOU3YQDqy4BeWmtLtu HaXNtgkZX1++wKkc1oKWcUIkL/fdg1D1TXQamdg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20090616223631.044208e8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:46:38 -0700 To: arun gupta , ima@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com > References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:49:50 -0000 At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote: >I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in >hindi e-Mail ID for Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. There are some patches for UTF8SMTP. I don't have them. Regards, -sm From elec.arun@gmail.com Wed Jun 17 03:26:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD3E3A692E for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:26:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.993 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.993 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.605, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CjWTmFZJrRem for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f193.google.com (mail-qy0-f193.google.com [209.85.221.193]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893E03A6999 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31so143960qyk.29 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:26:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ziwP++x7E9Ry73rpqF7CTb5vmWOL9GusdK+kXQqbK+A=; b=ZkSRnDPJ3iuWCSNXIOcS3u13zsoFhBkbgD9V0iMSZIZgRBakj9lg7sY9kNxIEiRozY M7WTC2/9bQlBBkQjPYZsNJSzoK3XevTGnfwROadQeyxwhqDaWIWLq47JcGp181kETDGF oiR0RuYYAV6lyG2xx8FKHDuogbNSXjvGzGWjI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=o7kz7IPeTQxzBinHQyYaFtJQ+IpLW8dYVRsBuv6KZTMxRWvBsVfOZeOO8i03lqRgdx JbgXYGmLr2KunT2s7mv5CGO30MY0w3ExCJh1F7YT3Xpmnta+4Fe4kdhKdLC8k/Q0eWh3 oYItCaJRQ+Wl3xnaIYqN7bdxJPhg/Jk2n1KPg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.99.69 with SMTP id t5mr1848359qcn.30.1245234392871; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:26:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <48accd840906162338x3036b1a6m6323fcb001cb692f@mail.gmail.com> References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20090616223631.044208e8@resistor.net> <48accd840906162338x3036b1a6m6323fcb001cb692f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:56:32 +0530 Message-ID: <48accd840906170326m4fbeabf1ub11b9974df6cc257@mail.gmail.com> From: arun gupta To: ima@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367f9bcea635a6046c88b932 Subject: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:26:52 -0000 --0016367f9bcea635a6046c88b932 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sir, Thanks for your quick response. Any one can give me hint how sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP. Thanks - With Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta System Administrator C-DAC Pune Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM wrote: > At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote: > >> I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi >> e-Mail ID for >> > > Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. There are some patches for UTF8SMTP. > I don't have them. > > Regards, > -sm > - --0016367f9bcea635a6046c88b932 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Dear Sir,

Thanks for your qui= ck response.
Any one can give me hint how=A0 sendmail integrate wit = UTF8SMTP.

Thanks

-
=A0 =A0With Regards,
=A0 = =A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=A0 =A0System Administrator
=A0 =A0C-DAC =A0Pune
=A0=A0

=A0Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM <sm@resistor.net> wrote:
At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote:
I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi e-M= ail ID for

Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. =A0There are some patches for UTF8SMTP.= =A0I don't have them.

Regards,
-sm






-
--0016367f9bcea635a6046c88b932-- From yaojk@cnnic.cn Wed Jun 17 06:35:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FAE28C207 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:35:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.224 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.224 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.605, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qOZSBpuDP1v9 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 70A2F3A6846 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:35:37 +0800 Message-ID: <445245737.01031@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO yaojk) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:35:37 +0800 Message-ID: <002201c9ef50$7ef298e0$0301a8c0@YaoJK> From: "Yao Jiankang" To: "arun gupta" , References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com><6.2.5.6.2.20090616223631.044208e8@resistor.net><48accd840906162338x3036b1a6m6323fcb001cb692f@mail.gmail.com> <445234430.25331@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:35:35 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C9EF93.8C9D2670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Cc: mark@twnic.net.tw Subject: Re: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:35:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C9EF93.8C9D2670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable twnic has implemented it through sendmail. cnnic has implemented it through postfix. we will publish the source = code in next a few weeks. you can download it. for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic colleges in advance. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: arun gupta=20 To: ima@ietf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address Dear Sir, Thanks for your quick response. Any one can give me hint how sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP. Thanks=20 -=20 With Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta System Administrator C-DAC Pune =20 Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM wrote: At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote: I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in = hindi e-Mail ID for Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. There are some patches for = UTF8SMTP. I don't have them. Regards, -sm=20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C9EF93.8C9D2670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
twnic has implemented it through=20 sendmail.
cnnic has implemented it through = postfix. we will=20 publish the source code in next a few weeks. you can download = it.
 
for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic = colleges in=20 advance.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 arun gupta=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 = 6:26=20 PM
Subject: [EAI] Fwd: How to send = mail in=20 Hindi language address




Dear Sir,

Thanks for your quick=20 response.
Any one can give me hint how  sendmail integrate wit = UTF8SMTP.

Thanks

-
   With=20 Regards,
   Arun Kumar Gupta
   System=20 Administrator
   C-DAC  Pune
  =20


 Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM <sm@resistor.net>=20 wrote:
At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote:
I=20 am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in = hindi=20 e-Mail ID for

Sendmail does not support = RFC 5336.=20  There are some patches for UTF8SMTP.  I don't have=20 them.

Regards,
-sm=20





-

_______________________________________________
IMA mailing=20 = list
IMA@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C9EF93.8C9D2670-- From elec.arun@gmail.com Wed Jun 17 07:12:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA5B3A691D for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:12:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.073, BAYES_00=-2.599, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.605, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w-feUQT60Xif for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21513A6BD6 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so227320qwe.31 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0VHq2GashjEDyaCD5+38ivj2wsmo5iAg64lPw5MjbBY=; b=Xc6eZxDKtcxy0Bl+pz1ypLjTV/w4Ms+jyctWbPsTrmgKUFmobLl7mWilrYlT+So0Sg ykXHsv2kf6X5BmQOXeOnO17B2B19veB4ybFolK5P0z8fYCcOBBX4GXVwszsiHMjTDo0I XRbYJlUjnO+77AWoo1tsPY34bmweTQvYOyarA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=UDB2XDcIAZkdmYTu2H1ytb5LxZgswL/O7E1IoexGlnnmeL7nU3hLsAF7UMpNQ9oElq 6HT4Up4vK44IfqsbDqPYmt0p/I/VqUTsBx5vUQR1yO36xEyrmocruiFfD4DsuijiFoJk lE4XI2Kp14jmCDDNMevDlyn5BZ3QDfG5M+Ii4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.85.195 with SMTP id p3mr31907qcl.79.1245247940605; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <445245737.01031@cnnic.cn> References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20090616223631.044208e8@resistor.net> <48accd840906162338x3036b1a6m6323fcb001cb692f@mail.gmail.com> <445234430.25331@cnnic.cn> <445245737.01031@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:42:20 +0530 Message-ID: <48accd840906170712y760e8928n25836cfdb3ae2bea@mail.gmail.com> From: arun gupta To: Yao Jiankang Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ef3c828398b046c8be1b8 Cc: mark@twnic.net.tw, ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:12:16 -0000 --0016364ef3c828398b046c8be1b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Respected Twnic college Mail Admin,, I want to configure in sendmail UTF8SMTP so that i can send the mail in my native language email ID and what is the things need to be required for achieving this great job Thanks With Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta System Administrator C-DAC Pune INDIA On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yao Jiankang wrote: > twnic has implemented it through sendmail. > cnnic has implemented it through postfix. we will publish the source code > in next a few weeks. you can download it. > > for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic colleges in advance. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* arun gupta > *To:* ima@ietf.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:26 PM > *Subject:* [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address > > > > > Dear Sir, > > Thanks for your quick response. > Any one can give me hint how sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP. > > Thanks > > - > With Regards, > Arun Kumar Gupta > System Administrator > C-DAC Pune > > > > Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM wrote: > >> At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote: >> >>> I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi >>> e-Mail ID for >>> >> >> Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. There are some patches for UTF8SMTP. >> I don't have them. >> >> Regards, >> -sm >> > > > > > > > - > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > -- --0016364ef3c828398b046c8be1b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Respected Twnic college Mail Admin,,=

I want to configure in sendmail UTF8SMTP so that i can send the mai= l in my native language email ID and what is the things need to be required= for achieving this great job

Thanks

=A0With Regards,
=A0 =A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=A0 =A0S= ystem Administrator
=A0 =A0C-DAC =A0Pune
=A0=A0=A0 INDIA
=A0
<= br>
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yao Jiankang= <yaojk@cnnic.cn= > wrote:
twnic has implemented it through=20 sendmail.
cnnic has implemented it through postf= ix. we will=20 publish the source code in next a few weeks. you can download it.
=A0
for sendmail matters, you may ask twni= c colleges in=20 advance.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 arun gupta=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:2= 6=20 PM
Subject: [EAI] Fwd: How to send ma= il in=20 Hindi language address




Dear Sir,

T= hanks for your quick=20 response.
Any one can give me hint how=A0 send= mail integrate wit=20 UTF8SMTP.

Thanks

-
= =A0 =A0With=20 Regards,
=A0 =A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=A0 =A0System=20 Administrator
=A0 =A0C-DAC =A0Pune
=A0=A0=20


=A0Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM <sm@re= sistor.net>=20 wrote:
At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote:
I=20 am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi= =20 e-Mail ID for

Sendmail does not support RFC= 5336.=20 =A0There are some patches for UTF8SMTP. =A0I don't have=20 them.

Regards,
-sm=20






-

_______________________________________________
IMA mailing=20 list
IMA@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima



--
=A0
=A0 =A0
--0016364ef3c828398b046c8be1b8-- From snw@twnic.net.tw Wed Jun 17 07:23:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C5A28C275 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:23:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.342 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.342 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.605, HELO_EQ_TW=1.335, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3UxNLsuamLIj for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from twnic.net.tw (twnic.net.tw [211.72.210.250]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBF73A6E81 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [211.72.211.214] (pc214.twnic.net.tw [211.72.211.214]) by twnic.net.tw (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n5HENGBR024444; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:23:16 +0800 Message-ID: <4A38FC72.1070809@twnic.net.tw> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:23:46 +0800 From: Nai-Wen Hsu User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: arun gupta References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20090616223631.044208e8@resistor.net> <48accd840906162338x3036b1a6m6323fcb001cb692f@mail.gmail.com> <445234430.25331@cnnic.cn> <445245737.01031@cnnic.cn> <48accd840906170712y760e8928n25836cfdb3ae2bea@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <48accd840906170712y760e8928n25836cfdb3ae2bea@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010303060302090208040800" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 211.72.210.250 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:23:16 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010303060302090208040800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Arun Kumar Gupta, The sendmail must be patched to recognize UTF8SMTP option, we will release source code in a couple weeks and announce in the mailing list. Regards, Nai-Wen Hsu arun gupta wrote: > Respected Twnic college Mail Admin,, > > I want to configure in sendmail UTF8SMTP so that i can send the mail > in my native language email ID and what is the things need to be > required for achieving this great job > > Thanks > > With Regards, > Arun Kumar Gupta > System Administrator > C-DAC Pune > INDIA > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yao Jiankang > wrote: > > twnic has implemented it through sendmail. > cnnic has implemented it through postfix. we will publish the > source code in next a few weeks. you can download it. > > for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic colleges in advance. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* arun gupta > *To:* ima@ietf.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:26 PM > *Subject:* [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address > > > > > Dear Sir, > > Thanks for your quick response. > Any one can give me hint how sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP. > > Thanks > > - > With Regards, > Arun Kumar Gupta > System Administrator > C-DAC Pune > > > > Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM > wrote: > > At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote: > > I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i > send mail in hindi e-Mail ID for > > > Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. There are some > patches for UTF8SMTP. I don't have them. > > Regards, > -sm > > > > > > > > - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > > > > -- > > --------------010303060302090208040800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Arun Kumar Gupta,

The sendmail must be patched to recognize UTF8SMTP option, we will release source code in a couple weeks and announce in the mailing list.

Regards,
Nai-Wen Hsu

arun gupta wrote:
Respected Twnic college Mail Admin,,

I want to configure in sendmail UTF8SMTP so that i can send the mail in my native language email ID and what is the things need to be required for achieving this great job

Thanks

 With Regards,
   Arun Kumar Gupta
   System Administrator
   C-DAC  Pune
    INDIA
 

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yao Jiankang <yaojk@cnnic.cn> wrote:
twnic has implemented it through sendmail.
cnnic has implemented it through postfix. we will publish the source code in next a few weeks. you can download it.
 
for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic colleges in advance.
----- Original Message -----
From: arun gupta
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:26 PM
Subject: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address




Dear Sir,

Thanks for your quick response.
Any one can give me hint how  sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP.

Thanks

-
   With Regards,
   Arun Kumar Gupta
   System Administrator
   C-DAC  Pune
  


 Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM <sm@resistor.net> wrote:
At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote:
I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi e-Mail ID for

Sendmail does not support RFC 5336.  There are some patches for UTF8SMTP.  I don't have them.

Regards,
-sm






-

_______________________________________________
IMA mailing list
IMA@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima



--
 
   

--------------010303060302090208040800-- From elec.arun@gmail.com Wed Jun 17 07:41:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98AA228C276 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.944 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.944 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.605, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q2jdKnh8Dk-J for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E923A68DF for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so242203qwe.31 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:40:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Zpq8jlsCvVjfE7E/m1KFTMWCcQNCBQy8Hb4lxLC0t+0=; b=O8VPHbNTYv2bebCqf4bP9xtOpqx2bsVxxLigjNxFsGMaJyjcSSlqwxjHsxgr/CSPZJ YyIXPVKmyV0aS38plc0k98OPAoddr07zNRSzSb+gE4kGaSoorR5+QmDIosBYBuZXhlxn Rv+BXf4ViAGkT7IHbgwoKT1cmzaLouoMcXaSc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=vu+aOQwXdIGYG9hPGrJ4U876PUE1w0qub3Lh2JRr11DpEu77AnIbZ+feXteSvJP+0y 3ZZyUkZt3O0WACdpKT8kgV9NYDzo5h5QcQvgE6VkGzfF88l6uNv1ARBmmmn3uhtOlSEn EV7+BF9nFlo383dePSUuA2BJzZAf/a76sZhsA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.85.195 with SMTP id p3mr37384qcl.79.1245249622499; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:40:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A38FC72.1070809@twnic.net.tw> References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20090616223631.044208e8@resistor.net> <48accd840906162338x3036b1a6m6323fcb001cb692f@mail.gmail.com> <445234430.25331@cnnic.cn> <445245737.01031@cnnic.cn> <48accd840906170712y760e8928n25836cfdb3ae2bea@mail.gmail.com> <4A38FC72.1070809@twnic.net.tw> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:10:22 +0530 Message-ID: <48accd840906170740n3068be26ufcea64c814a3e8c7@mail.gmail.com> From: arun gupta To: Nai-Wen Hsu Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ef3c867e390046c8c4526 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:41:43 -0000 --0016364ef3c867e390046c8c4526 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Twnic Mail Admin, Thanks for your quick response With Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta System Administrator C-DAC Pune INDIA On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Nai-Wen Hsu wrote: > Hi Arun Kumar Gupta, > > The sendmail must be patched to recognize UTF8SMTP option, we will release > source code in a couple weeks and announce in the mailing list. > > Regards, > Nai-Wen Hsu > > > arun gupta wrote: > > Respected Twnic college Mail Admin,, > > I want to configure in sendmail UTF8SMTP so that i can send the mail in my > native language email ID and what is the things need to be required for > achieving this great job > > Thanks > > With Regards, > Arun Kumar Gupta > System Administrator > C-DAC Pune > INDIA > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yao Jiankang wrote: > >> twnic has implemented it through sendmail. >> cnnic has implemented it through postfix. we will publish the source code >> in next a few weeks. you can download it. >> >> for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic colleges in advance. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* arun gupta >> *To:* ima@ietf.org >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:26 PM >> *Subject:* [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address >> >> >> >> >> Dear Sir, >> >> Thanks for your quick response. >> Any one can give me hint how sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP. >> >> Thanks >> >> - >> With Regards, >> Arun Kumar Gupta >> System Administrator >> C-DAC Pune >> >> >> >> Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM wrote: >> >>> At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote: >>> >>>> I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi >>>> e-Mail ID for >>>> >>> >>> Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. There are some patches for >>> UTF8SMTP. I don't have them. >>> >>> Regards, >>> -sm >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> IMA mailing list >> IMA@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima >> >> > > > -- > > > > > -- --0016364ef3c867e390046c8c4526 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Twnic Mail Admin,

Thanks for your quick response

With Re= gards,
=A0 =A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=A0 =A0System Administrator
=A0 = =A0C-DAC =A0Pune
=A0=A0 INDIA


On = Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Nai-Wen Hsu <snw@twnic.net.tw> wrote:
=20
Hi Arun Kumar Gupta,

The sendmail must be patched to recognize UTF8SMTP option, we will release source code in a couple weeks and announce in the mailing list.

Regards,
Nai-Wen Hsu


arun gupta wrote:
Respected Twnic college Mail Admin,,

I want to configure in sendmail UTF8SMTP so that i can send the mail in my native language email ID and what is the things need to be required for achieving this great job

Thanks

=A0With Regards,
=A0 =A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=A0 =A0System Administrator
=A0 =A0C-DAC =A0Pune
=A0=A0=A0 INDIA
=A0

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yao Jiankang <yaojk@cnnic.cn> wrote:
twnic has implemented it through sendmail.
cnnic has implemented it through postfix. we will publish the source code in next a few weeks. you can download it.
=A0
for sendmail matters, you may ask twnic colleges in advance.
----- Original Message -----
From: arun gupta
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:26 PM
Subject: [EAI] Fwd: How to send mail in Hindi language address




Dear Sir,

Thanks for your quick response.
Any one can give me hint how=A0 sendmail integrate wit UTF8SMTP.

Thanks

-
=A0 =A0With Regards,
=A0 =A0Arun Kumar Gupta
=A0 =A0System Administrator
=A0 =A0C-DAC =A0Pune
=A0=A0


=A0Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, SM <sm@resistor.net> wrote:
At 21:42 16-06-2009, arun gupta wrote:
I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi e-Mail ID for

Sendmail does not support RFC 5336. =A0There are some patches for UTF8SMTP. =A0I don't have them.

Regards,
-sm






-

_______________________________________________
IMA mailing list
IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima



--
=A0
=A0 =A0




--
=A0=A0
--0016364ef3c867e390046c8c4526-- From rmohan@afilias.info Wed Jun 17 07:56:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751903A6BC5 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:56:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.775 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.775 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dEPh4BS3bJOW for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BDF3A6A7A for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGwXn-0001zy-8V; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:55:19 +0000 Received: from phl-nat.afilias.info ([67.200.48.3] helo=RamFujitsu6520) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGwXn-0003DR-4K; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:55:19 +0000 From: "Ram Mohan" To: "'arun gupta'" , , "Joseph Yee" References: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <48accd840906162142k5d09bf2v8beca86eb877e120@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:55:18 -0400 Organization: Afilias Message-ID: <008201c9ef5b$a1b07bd0$e5117370$@info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01C9EF3A.1A9EDBD0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnvBvvLpgnEg43sRDaDEa2no6AOGwAVI/hw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: rmohan@afilias.info List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:56:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C9EF3A.1A9EDBD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Afilias has done this as well. Glad to help, I=E2=80=99m copying our = engineer on this. =20 -Ram =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Ram Mohan e: rmohan@afilias.info | m: +1.215.431.0958 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: arun gupta [mailto:elec.arun@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:42 AM To: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address =20 Dear All, I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi = e-Mail ID for example =20 = =E0=A4=A8=E0=A5=87=E0=A4=B9=E0=A4=BE@gmail.com what is the things we required for this feature. Please reply me. =20 Thanking you. With Regards, Arun Kumar Gupta System Administrator Pune =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C9EF3A.1A9EDBD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Afilias has done this as well.=C2=A0 Glad to help, = I=E2=80=99m copying our engineer on this.

 

-Ram

 

----------------------------------------------------------= ----------------

Ram Mohan

e: rmohan@afilias.info | = m: +1.215.431.0958
-------------------------------------------------------------------------= -

From:= arun gupta [mailto:elec.arun@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:42 AM
To: ima@ietf.org
Subject: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language = address

 

Dear All,

I am working in sendmail (RHEL-3) mail server, can i send mail in hindi = e-Mail ID for example  

=E0=A4=A8=E0=A5=87=E0=A4=B9=E0=A4=BE@=
gmail.com






what is the things we required for this feature.



Please reply me.=C2=A0 





Thanking you.

With Regards,
   Arun Kumar Gupta
   System Administrator
   Pune
   

------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C9EF3A.1A9EDBD0-- From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Wed Jun 17 14:04:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B073A6801 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:04:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.850, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y9aG7I9PyNAq for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148A23A6936 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.180) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:03:50 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.180]) with mapi; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:48:54 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: How to send mail in Hindi language address Thread-Index: AQHJ740GaKFLX3yrjEuk/tJWEJ1Y4w== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:48:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:04:12 -0000 T2YgY291cnNlIHlvdXIgc2VydmVyIGlzbid0IGdvaW5nIHRvIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gdGFsayB0byBt YW55IG90aGVyIHNlcnZlcnMgdGhpcyB3YXkgeWV0Li4uLg0KDQotU2hhd24NCg0KDQotLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQpTZW50OiDvo6fvo5Tvo5vvo6Lvo5jvo5Dvo5gsIO+jmO+jpe+jnCAxNywg76OT76OX 76OiIDIwMDkgNzoyM0Zyb206IGFydW4gZ3VwdGEgPGVsZWMuYXJ1bkBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQpTdWJq ZWN0OiBbRUFJXSBIb3cgdG8gc2VuZCBtYWlsIGluIEhpbmRpIGxhbmd1YWdlIGFkZHJlc3MNCg0K RGVhciBBbGwsDQoNCkkgYW0gd29ya2luZyBpbiBzZW5kbWFpbCAoUkhFTC0zKSBtYWlsIHNlcnZl ciwgY2FuIGkgc2VuZCBtYWlsIGluIGhpbmRpDQplLU1haWwgSUQgZm9yIGV4YW1wbGUNCg0KPz8/ P0BnbWFpbC5jb20gPGh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2VibWFpbC5jZGFjLmluL3R3aWcvaW5kZXgucGhwPyZz JTVCbWFpbGJveCU1RD1JTkJPWCZzJTVCbWFpbEdyb3VwJTVEPSUyQSZzJTVCbWFpbF9zdGFydG1z ZyU1RD0zMDEmcyU1QnNvcnRieSU1RD1kYXRlJnMlNUJzb3J0Ynl3YXklNUQ9MSZzJTVCZGVsZXRl LXJldHVybiU1RD1tc2d2aWV3JnMlNUJtYWlsdHJlZSU1RD0wJTdDJmMlNUJmJTVEPW1haWwmYyU1 QmElNUQ9Y29tcG9zZSZmb3JtJTVCdG8lNUQ9JUUwJUE0JUE4JUUwJUE1JTg3JUUwJUE0JUI5JUUw JUE0JUJFQGNkYWMuaW4+DQoNCndoYXQgaXMgdGhlIHRoaW5ncyB3ZSByZXF1aXJlZCBmb3IgdGhp cyBmZWF0dXJlLg0KDQpQbGVhc2UgcmVwbHkgbWUuDQoNCg0KVGhhbmtpbmcgeW91Lg0KDQoNCldp dGggUmVnYXJkcywNCiAgIEFydW4gS3VtYXIgR3VwdGENCiAgIFN5c3RlbSBBZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9y DQogICBQdW5lDQoNCg== From klensin@jck.com Wed Jun 17 14:46:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B073A683D for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:46:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zfTWqqxffsL9 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF593A6843 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1MH2xP-0007NW-EF; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:46:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:46:10 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Shawn Steele , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <81EDE3EB20F164603EE491C3@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:46:03 -0000 --On Wednesday, June 17, 2009 20:48 +0000 Shawn Steele wrote: > Of course your server isn't going to be able to talk to many > other servers this way yet.... Indeed. If you send messages with Hindi addresses, you must either expect that they will bounce if it encounters a non-updated server or you must supply "alternate address" forms and hope that both intermediate systems and the recipient will be able to handle them properly. Reports from you on what actually happens in practice when older systems are encountered would be of immense value to this working group and the IETF more generally. john From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Wed Jun 17 16:28:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E413A6A95 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:28:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.024 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.425, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SVKHn1N6npSL for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7181C3A67BD for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.174) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:28:35 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.174]) with mapi; Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:00:05 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: John C Klensin , "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Early adoption - was [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address Thread-Index: AQHJ759Z0LxsNSI/P0SJQtxlSjD+rw== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:00:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <81EDE3EB20F164603EE491C3@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <81EDE3EB20F164603EE491C3@PST.JCK.COM> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] Early adoption - was How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:28:24 -0000 VG8gYmUgY2xlYXIsIEknbSBub3QgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGRpc2NvdXJhZ2UgZWFybHkgYWRvcHRpb24s IGJ1dCB0aGUgZXhwZWN0YXRpb25zIHNob3VsZCBiZSBjbGVhciA6KQ0KDQpJJ20gbm90IHZlcnkg ZmFtaWxpYXIgd2l0aCB0aGUgc2VuZG1haWwgb3IgcG9zdGZpeCBlZmZvcnRzLiAgSXMgdGhlcmUg YW4gZWFzeSB3YXkgZm9yIHRoZSBleHBlcmltZW50YWwgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgcGF0Y2hlcyBmb3Ig VVRGOFNNVFAgdG8gYmUgc3VwcGxpZWQgdG8gdGhvc2UgY29tbXVuaXRpZXM/ICBFbnRlcnByaXNp bmcgaW5kaXZpZHVhbHMgb3Igc21hbGwgb3JnYW5pemF0aW9ucyBjb3VsZCB0aGVuIHBsYXkgd2l0 aCB0aGUgYmVoYXZpb3IgbW9yZSByZWFkaWx5Li4uDQoNCi1TaGF3bg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBKb2huIEMgS2xlbnNpbiBbbWFpbHRvOmtsZW5zaW5AamNr LmNvbV0NClNlbnQ6IO+jp++jlO+jm++jou+jmO+jkO+jmCwg76OY76Ol76OcIDE3LCDvo5Pvo5fv o6IgMjAwOSAxNDo0Ng0KVG86IFNoYXduIFN0ZWVsZTsgaW1hQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBS ZTogW0VBSV0gSG93IHRvIHNlbmQgbWFpbCBpbiBIaW5kaSBsYW5ndWFnZSBhZGRyZXNzDQoNCg0K DQotLU9uIFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSnVuZSAxNywgMjAwOSAyMDo0OCArMDAwMCBTaGF3biBTdGVlbGUN CjxTaGF3bi5TdGVlbGVAbWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gT2YgY291cnNlIHlvdXIg c2VydmVyIGlzbid0IGdvaW5nIHRvIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gdGFsayB0byBtYW55DQo+IG90aGVyIHNl cnZlcnMgdGhpcyB3YXkgeWV0Li4uLg0KDQpJbmRlZWQuDQoNCklmIHlvdSBzZW5kIG1lc3NhZ2Vz IHdpdGggSGluZGkgYWRkcmVzc2VzLCB5b3UgbXVzdCBlaXRoZXINCmV4cGVjdCB0aGF0IHRoZXkg d2lsbCBib3VuY2UgaWYgaXQgZW5jb3VudGVycyBhIG5vbi11cGRhdGVkDQpzZXJ2ZXIgb3IgeW91 IG11c3Qgc3VwcGx5ICJhbHRlcm5hdGUgYWRkcmVzcyIgZm9ybXMgYW5kIGhvcGUNCnRoYXQgYm90 aCBpbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgc3lzdGVtcyBhbmQgdGhlIHJlY2lwaWVudCB3aWxsIGJlIGFibGUgdG8N CmhhbmRsZSB0aGVtIHByb3Blcmx5LiAgUmVwb3J0cyBmcm9tIHlvdSBvbiB3aGF0IGFjdHVhbGx5 IGhhcHBlbnMNCmluIHByYWN0aWNlIHdoZW4gb2xkZXIgc3lzdGVtcyBhcmUgZW5jb3VudGVyZWQg d291bGQgYmUgb2YNCmltbWVuc2UgdmFsdWUgdG8gdGhpcyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGFuZCB0aGUg SUVURiBtb3JlIGdlbmVyYWxseS4NCg0KICAgam9obg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg== From jyee@ca.afilias.info Fri Jun 19 21:40:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5053A68B0 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:40:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.846, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NvkJpuI0rEUh for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CA83A677D for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:40:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Yee To: Shawn Steele In-Reply-To: References: <81EDE3EB20F164603EE491C3@PST.JCK.COM> Message-Id: <4285C017-E4EF-463B-9B67-64D01941414A@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:40:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Authenticated: True Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] Early adoption - was How to send mail in Hindi language address X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 04:40:08 -0000 For full experience, there's also need of the receiving components, =20 IMAP/POP & MUA. We have beta system available for everyone to sign up, which could =20 help testing against different systems (UTF8SMTP or plain SMTP). =20 Enabling or disabling alternate address at the setting can test out =20 different expectations. http://global-email.info/signup.php Afilias participated the interop test last summer with CNNIC, TWNIC, =20 JPRS, and NIDA. We all documented our experience at = http://cslab.kr/eai-test/index.php/Main_Page=20 this should help to understand more about behavior and expectation =20= technically. Signup links are available at wiki too. Joseph On 17-Jun-09, at 7:00 PM, Shawn Steele wrote: > To be clear, I'm not trying to discourage early adoption, but the =20 > expectations should be clear :) > > I'm not very familiar with the sendmail or postfix efforts. Is =20 > there an easy way for the experimental source code patches for =20 > UTF8SMTP to be supplied to those communities? Enterprising =20 > individuals or small organizations could then play with the behavior =20= > more readily... > > -Shawn > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John C Klensin [mailto:klensin@jck.com] > Sent: =EF=A3=A7=EF=A3=94=EF=A3=9B=EF=A3=A2=EF=A3=98=EF=A3=90=EF=A3=98, = =EF=A3=98=EF=A3=A5=EF=A3=9C 17, =EF=A3=93=EF=A3=97=EF=A3=A2 2009 14:46 > To: Shawn Steele; ima@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [EAI] How to send mail in Hindi language address > > > > --On Wednesday, June 17, 2009 20:48 +0000 Shawn Steele > wrote: > >> Of course your server isn't going to be able to talk to many >> other servers this way yet.... > > Indeed. > > If you send messages with Hindi addresses, you must either > expect that they will bounce if it encounters a non-updated > server or you must supply "alternate address" forms and hope > that both intermediate systems and the recipient will be able to > handle them properly. Reports from you on what actually happens > in practice when older systems are encountered would be of > immense value to this working group and the IETF more generally. > > john > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From edainow@ca.afilias.info Mon Jun 22 08:17:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44813A6DE5 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:17:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4qmSmYqWAn2 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34213A6D69 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.68.27] by vgateway.libertyrms.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIlGo-0005iB-7Z for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:17:18 -0400 Message-ID: <4A3FA114.3070007@ca.afilias.info> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:19:48 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EAI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [EAI] Downgrade testing X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:17:05 -0000 We have tested our EAI implementation largely in an internal environment and with other implementers, as reported on the Interoperability Testing Wiki at http://cslab.kr/eai-test/index.php/Main_Page The Downgrade test reported on the wiki basically tested against gmail. It would be valuable to do more testing 'in the wild' to see how Downgrade traverses various email systems in other organizations. Here are some results from a few such tests. 1. email sent to gmail.com is received directly, with downgraded headers (as reported on wiki). 1. email sent to yahool.com is received directly, with downgraded headers. 2. email sent to our company address gets blocked by the spam filter with a "Invalid mail header" error. However, as a user, I am able to release the message and it gets delivered. I can easily send the same test email to others. If you are interested in participating in this test, please send me a reply. I will send out a mailing later this week. As a participant, all you need to do is report whether you received the email and other notes of interest, such as if the email was blocked. The results will be compiled and posted on the wiki. Other implementers can run the same test. In the end we should end up with a test result matrix that looks something like the following: Downgrade Test Results Messages Implementation 1 Implementation 2 ... Total Sent 3 Delivered 66% Blocked 33% Other 0 - Ernie From root@core3.amsl.com Mon Jun 22 11:45:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 8C8183A6C0E; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090622184501.8C8183A6C0E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-05.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:45:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : P. Resnick, C. Newman Filename : draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-05.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2009-06-22 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support unencoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This is an early draft and intended as a framework for discussion. Please do not deploy implementations of this draft. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-06-22114255.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Tue Jun 23 02:04:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4172D3A6926 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:04:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SYRhbSkwr-a9 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCE73A68AF for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.109] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:04:57 +0100 Message-ID: <4A409A87.602@isode.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:04:07 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ima@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-05.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:04:46 -0000 This version doesn't address most of the issues I've raised earlier: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima/current/msg02637.html Here is the list of my original comments, with a couple of addressed issues removed. I've also added Pete's comments on some of them. =========================== > 3.1. IMAP UTF-8 Quoted Strings [...] > > All IMAP servers SHOULD accept UTF-8 in mailbox names and IMAP > servers which support the "Mailbox International Naming Convention" > described in RFC 3501 section 5.1.3 MUST accept utf8-quoted mailbox > names and convert them to the appropriate internal format. [TBD > stringprep for mailbox names? Can we reuse SASLprep?]. Note that I was faced with a similar issue in the ManageSieve protocol, where script names are in UTF-8. After some discussion in the Sieve WG we've decided to go with something like this: A Sieve script name is a sequence of Unicode characters encoded in UTF-8 [UTF-8]. A script name MUST comply with Net-Unicode Definition (Sectio 2 of [NET-UNICODE]), with the following additional restrictions: o 0000-001F; [CONTROL CHARACTERS] o 007F; DELETE o 0080-009F; [CONTROL CHARACTERS] o 2028; LINE SEPARATOR o 2029; PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR Where: [NET-UNICODE] Klensin, J. and M. Padlipsky, "Unicode Format for Network Interchange", RFC 5198, March 2008. [Pete: OK] > IMAP servers MUST NOT accept UTF-8 characters when storing a new > message keyword, unless the mailbox is UTF-8 only, in which case IMAP > servers SHOULD accept UTF-8 in message keywords. [TBD stringprep for > message keywords? Can we reuse SASLprep?] Haven't we decided to leave keywords as ASCII some time ago? I don't have a strong opinion either way. But anyway, this should be similar to the above, with some additional restrictions imposed by IMAP: spaces and some US-ASCII separator characters are not allowed. [Pete: OK] > 3.4. UTF-8 Interaction with IMAP4 LIST Command Extensions > > When an IMAP server advertises both the "UTF8" capability and the > "LIST-EXTENEDED" [RFC5258] capability, the server MUST support the > LIST extensions described in this section. When an IMAP server > advertises the UTF8=ONLY capability and the LIST-EXTENDED capability, > the server MUST reject these LIST extensions with a BAD response. Ok, I might be confused here, but I think this contradicts description of the UTF8=ONLY capability in section 7: This capability permits an IMAP server to advertise that it does not support the international mailbox name convention (modified UTF-7), and does not permit selection or examination of any mailbox unless the UTF8 parameter is provided. [Pete: I think the point here is that if you have UTF8=ONLY, then it is pointless to use the UTF8 or UTF8ONLY param to LIST, since all of the mailboxes only support UTF-8 headers. But I guess the param will do no harm either. Again, I'll ask Chris. Alexey: Pointless for a client that only supports UTF8=ONLY - probably. However, I think the intent is to encourage client deployments now. In short term there would be no UTF8=ONLY servers, so clients would need to work when UTF8 and UTF8ONLY are required. I don't think you want to require two code paths in such clients.] > 3.4.1. UTF8 and UTF8ONLY LIST Selection Options > > The UTF8 LIST selection option tells the server to include mailboxes > that only support UTF-8 headers in the output of the list command. > The UTF8ONLY LIST selection option tells the server to include all > mailboxes that support UTF-8 headers and to exclude mailboxes that > don't support UTF-8 headers. Note that UTF8ONLY implies UTF8 so it > is not necessary for the client to request both. Use of either > selection option will also result in UTF-8 mailbox names in the > result as described in Section 3.3. This need to clarify that either selection option implies the UTF8 return option described in section 3.4.2, which in its term means that "\NoUTF8" and "\UTF8Only" mailbox attributes need to be returned when necessary. The only place where this information can be found is in the IANA registration itself. I think most readers would miss that. [Pete: OK] > 3.4.2. UTF8 LIST Return Option > > If the client supplies the UTF8 LIST return option, then the server > MUST include either the \NoUTF8 or the \UTF8Only mailbox attribute as > appropriate. The \NoUTF8 mailbox attribute indicates an attempt to > SELECT or EXAMINE that mailbox with the UTF8 parameter will fail with > a [NOT-UTF-8] response code. The \UTF8Only mailbox attribute > indicates an attempt to SELECT or EXAMINE that mailbox without the > UTF8 parameter will fail with a [UTF-8-ONLY] response code. Note > that computing this information may be expensive on some server > implementations so this return option should not be used unless > necessary. > > The ABNF [RFC5234] for these LIST extensions follows: > > list-select-independent-opt =/ "UTF8" / "UTF8ONLY" This has some implications that you might have not thought about: extending this productions means that these options don't interact with other options, such as RECURSIVEMATCH. While I think the UTF8 option should behave in the same way as the REMOTE option (as it might potentially extend the list of returned mailboxes), I think UTF8ONLY should be treated more like SUBSCRIBED (as it subsets the list of returned mailboxes). So, if you agree, I suggest changing this to: list-select-independent-opt =/ "UTF8" list-select-base-opt =/ "UTF8ONLY" [Pete: OK] > mbox-list-oflag =/ "\NoUTF8" / "\UTF8Only" I think you've copied typo from an old LIST-EXTENDED draft: please change "mbox-list-oflag" to "mbx-list-oflag". [Pete: OK] [...] > 4. UTF8=APPEND Capability > > If the UTF8=APPEND capability is advertised, then the server accepts > UTF-8 headers in the APPEND command message argument. A client which > sends a message with UTF-8 headers to the server MUST include the > UTF8 APPEND parameter. The ABNF for this APPEND parameter follows: > > append-ext =/ "UTF8" This is probably Ok, but note that RFC 4466 required each label to have a parameter. Whether this is a bug, or there was a reason for that, I currently don't remember. [Pete: OK, we discussed offline, and the above is wrong. Instead, we think we need to replace with: utf8-literal = "UTF8" SP "(" literal8 ")" append-data =/ utf8-literal We will also need to update CATENATE (RFC 4469) by adding: cat-part =/ utf8-literal Does that look OK to everyone? (And if you don't have the stomach to read 4466, your silence will be taken as acceptance.)] From randy@qualcomm.com Tue Jun 23 15:39:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06EAB3A6A7C for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:39:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 112aKa+ywvhe for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61843A693C for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:38:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=randy@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1245796746; x=1277332746; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer: x-message-note:date:to:from:subject:mime-version: content-type:x-random-sig-tag:x-ironport-av; z=Message-ID:=20 |In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20|X-Mailer:=20Eudora=20for=20Mac =20OS=20X|X-message-Note:=20Warning:=20Outlook=20in=20use .=20=20Upgrade=20to=20Eudora:=20 |Date:=20Tue,=2023=20Jun=202009=2015:32:31=20-0700|To:=20 Joseph=20Yee=20,=20EAI=20WG=20|From:=20Randall=20Gellens=20|Subject:=20Re:=20[EAI]=20Regarding=20EAI-POP-05,=20UTF8 =20tag|MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B =20charset=3D"us-ascii"=3B=20format=3Dflowed |X-Random-Sig-Tag:=201.0b28|X-IronPort-AV:=20E=3DMcAfee =3Bi=3D"5300,2777,5655"=3B=20a=3D"19801510"; bh=aPDt2kpPlytno8Oh/zudLsioYmH22pNsWLLT5Osgcxs=; b=qbBNTozOZxAu960Mh3NatqXggqkNBy8df9JLmuE3fJYtIMs+t7btEs55 XaS0Y0TNNK7fvAMyu9skPsqnxHUiUvoixk2GFoEDLMDmXkiSG2zCaMw5m +VQHmvStZNmsUJkGJnp9EtKsKzUEzusXqYAN5XDTUl6+CKjnObebYQEfX 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5300,2777,5655"; a="19801510" Received: from pdmz-ns-mip.qualcomm.com (HELO numenor.qualcomm.com) ([199.106.114.10]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 23 Jun 2009 15:39:05 -0700 Received: from msgtransport02.qualcomm.com (msgtransport02.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id n5NMd5T6021686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:39:05 -0700 Received: from nasanexhub03.na.qualcomm.com (nasanexhub03.na.qualcomm.com [10.46.93.98]) by msgtransport02.qualcomm.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/1.0) with ESMTP id n5NMd4Wp019465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:39:04 -0700 Received: from nasanexmsp01.na.qualcomm.com (10.45.56.204) by nasanexhub03.na.qualcomm.com (10.46.93.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.358.0; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:39:04 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.13] (10.46.82.6) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (10.45.56.204) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.340.0; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:39:03 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X X-message-Note: Warning: Outlook in use. Upgrade to Eudora: Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:32:31 -0700 To: Joseph Yee , EAI WG From: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [EAI] Regarding EAI-POP-05, UTF8 tag X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:39:09 -0000 At 4:05 PM -0400 6/15/09, Joseph Yee wrote: > Hi all, > > I re-read the latest version of eai-pop (05) and I think there were > some should be deleted text from decision of changing to single > mode-switch. > > > Section 3 UTF8 Capability > - current arguments have "USER, LIST, TOP" > > Since UTF8 is designed to use at authorization state only, LIST and > TOP should remove from arguments. > > Suggested arguments list: > > Arguments: > none, USER, APOP In the description of a new POP capability, "arguments" means arguments that may appear following the CAPA tag (in the CAPA response), not parameters of the command. This can be confusing and should be clarified in an update to RFC 2449. So the text in -05 means that a UTF8 capable POP server includes in its CAPA response the string "UTF8" optionally followed by any or all of "USER", "LIST", and "TOP". However, the -05 text only describes what "USER" means (which is that the POP server permits UTF8 in authentication and authorization text and applies SASLprep). The document does not say what it means if "LIST" or "TOP" are included, and to be honest, I'm not sure I remember why these were included. There is some text in -05 that discusses the accuracy of the size of a message as reported in LIST, so my guess is that the intent is that if the server knows that it returns accurate sizes in LIST, it includes LIST in the UTF8 CAPA response. My guess that if the server supports TOP and also is capable of handling downgrades during TOP, it includes TOP in the UTF8 CAPA response. However, since POP servers don't up-convert, a client that issues UTF8 wouldn't see any difference between a server that included TOP or LIST and one that didn't. Only clients that don't issue UTF8 would see a difference, because the differences only affects down-converted messages. Therefore, the only clients that could see a difference won't see it, because any client that knows what "UTF8" in the CAPA response means probably supports UTF8 and will issue the UTF8 command, and so won't see any difference. Older clients that don't know about UTF8 and don't issue the UTF8 command would see a difference but not know about it. So, these two arguments are useless and will be deleted from -06. Thanks for noticing this and bringing it up. > I don't know how it should present both empty and non-empty > arguments in RFC. I'm suggesting that single command UTF8 (without > any argument followed) could switch mode before authentication, > hence I include "none" as possible argument. > > For "none" scenario: > S: +OK POP3 server ready > C: UTF8 > S: +OK UTF8 POP3 enabled > C: USER non-ascii-address > S: +OK hello non-ascii-address > C: PASS password > ..... > > I'm also thinking that "UTF8 must have argument followed" is fine > too, but my personal thought is that if so, it applies to USER and > APOP only. The UTF8 command does not have any parameters. The client issues "UTF8" and that's it. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Television is simply automated day-dreaming. --Lee Lovinger, _Quote_, July 30, 1967 From root@core3.amsl.com Tue Jun 23 21:00:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 5FCF33A6F25; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090624040001.5FCF33A6F25@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-pop-06.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:00:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : POP3 Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : R. Gellens, C. Newman Filename : draft-ietf-eai-pop-06.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2009-06-23 This specification extends the Post Office Protocol version 3 (POP3) to support un-encoded international characters in user names, passwords, mail addresses, message headers, and protocol-level textual error strings. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-pop-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-pop-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-06-23205209.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From jyee@ca.afilias.info Wed Jun 24 10:45:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2213A6FCA for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:45:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.882 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.882 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.383, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJNwiCgB2zJ7 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6A33A6FAA for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MJWV9-0002yg-8g; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:43:15 +0000 Received: from [207.219.45.45] (helo=[10.10.68.32]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MJWV9-0005IC-81; Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:43:15 +0000 From: Joseph Yee To: Randall Gellens In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:43:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Cc: EAI WG Subject: Re: [EAI] Regarding EAI-POP-05, UTF8 tag X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:45:33 -0000 On 23-Jun-09, at 6:32 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 4:05 PM -0400 6/15/09, Joseph Yee wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I re-read the latest version of eai-pop (05) and I think there were >> some should be deleted text from decision of changing to single >> mode-switch. >> >> >> Section 3 UTF8 Capability >> - current arguments have "USER, LIST, TOP" >> >> Since UTF8 is designed to use at authorization state only, LIST and >> TOP should remove from arguments. >> >> Suggested arguments list: >> >> Arguments: >> none, USER, APOP > > In the description of a new POP capability, "arguments" means > arguments that may appear following the CAPA tag (in the CAPA > response), not parameters of the command. This can be confusing and > should be clarified in an update to RFC 2449. Thanks for the clarification. > > So the text in -05 means that a UTF8 capable POP server includes in > its CAPA response the string "UTF8" optionally followed by any or > all of "USER", "LIST", and "TOP". However, the -05 text only > describes what "USER" means (which is that the POP server permits > UTF8 in authentication and authorization text and applies SASLprep). > > The document does not say what it means if "LIST" or "TOP" are > included, and to be honest, I'm not sure I remember why these were > included. There is some text in -05 that discusses the accuracy of > the size of a message as reported in LIST, so my guess is that the > intent is that if the server knows that it returns accurate sizes in > LIST, it includes LIST in the UTF8 CAPA response. My guess that if > the server supports TOP and also is capable of handling downgrades > during TOP, it includes TOP in the UTF8 CAPA response. However, > since POP servers don't up-convert, a client that issues UTF8 > wouldn't see any difference between a server that included TOP or > LIST and one that didn't. Only clients that don't issue UTF8 would > see a difference, because the differences only affects down- > converted messages. Therefore, the only clients that could see a > difference won't see it, because any client that knows what "UTF8" > in the CAPA response means probably supports UTF8 and will issue the > UTF8 command, and so won't see any difference. Older clients that > don't know about UTF8 and don't issue the UTF8 command would see a > difference but not know about it. So, these two arguments are > useless and will be deleted from -06. > > Thanks for noticing this and bringing it up. :) > >> I don't know how it should present both empty and non-empty >> arguments in RFC. I'm suggesting that single command UTF8 (without >> any argument followed) could switch mode before authentication, >> hence I include "none" as possible argument. >> >> For "none" scenario: >> S: +OK POP3 server ready >> C: UTF8 >> S: +OK UTF8 POP3 enabled >> C: USER non-ascii-address >> S: +OK hello non-ascii-address >> C: PASS password >> ..... >> >> I'm also thinking that "UTF8 must have argument followed" is fine >> too, but my personal thought is that if so, it applies to USER and >> APOP only. > > The UTF8 command does not have any parameters. The client issues > "UTF8" and that's it. Sounds good, I personally prefer this too. Regards, Joseph > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself > only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Television is simply automated day-dreaming. > --Lee Lovinger, _Quote_, July 30, 1967 From root@core3.amsl.com Thu Jun 25 09:30:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id CF9563A6A07; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090625163001.CF9563A6A07@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-06.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:30:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : P. Resnick, C. Newman Filename : draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-06.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2009-06-25 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support unencoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This is an early draft and intended as a framework for discussion. Please do not deploy implementations of this draft. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-06-25092112.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From root@core3.amsl.com Thu Jun 25 11:45:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 040B33A6CC0; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090625184502.040B33A6CC0@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:45:02 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : P. Resnick, C. Newman Filename : draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2009-06-25 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support unencoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This is an early draft and intended as a framework for discussion. Please do not deploy implementations of this draft. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-06-25113905.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Thu Jun 25 12:35:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D453A6972 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:35:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.994 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.994 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.171, BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTP_ESCAPED_HOST=0.134, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BNOjjVY6qA9h for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79ACA3A693B for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.178) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:33:55 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.178]) with mapi; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:33:54 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: UTF-8 mailto escaping Thread-Index: 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X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBE428C1E0 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k28Mand+DULo for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B57728C0E7 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.174) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:31:57 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.174]) with mapi; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:31:57 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: Acn2tkuirKRI0wBhSI22/upwtl7IDg== Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:31:57 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CAD7705D4A93814F97D3EF00790AF0B315F4E0B2tk5ex14mbxc105r_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:31:42 -0000 --_000_CAD7705D4A93814F97D3EF00790AF0B315F4E0B2tk5ex14mbxc105r_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I realize that a UTF-8 email address and the ASCII fallback for that addres= s are left to the server to figure out, but I was wondering if anyone had a= ny preconceptions? I can think of 3 basic ways to solve generating ASCII addresses: 1) Some so= rt of encoding mechanism that is algorithmic and likely makes an unreadable= ASCII address, 2) aliasing, where aliasing happens automagically, like per= haps Cyrillic to ASCII transliteration, and 3) aliasing where the ASCII ali= as doesn't necessarily correlate with the native-script form. My preconception is that the last is the most useful, unless the native scr= ipt has well-defined transiliteration to Latin rules. Furthermore I'd expect that when I created a new account on something like = live mail/gmail/yahoo mail, that it'd be nice to get prompted for both the = Unicode and ASCII aliases, possibly with a generate ASCII alias button for = users that aren't as familier with that form. Lastly, I'd assume that "enabling" EAI on such a system, such as with a Chi= nese ISP, would mean that when I log in with an existing ASCII address, I c= ould be prompted with a "Get your chinese alias now!" button, so that I wou= ldn't have to make a new account or lose service/migrate messages, etc. fro= m my old account. It occurred to me that what I think is obvious may not be what everyone/any= one else is thinking. Does anyone care to share any other options or wheth= er they agree? I know that earlier Mark had suggested a punycode form, but= I'd assumed that most end-users would prefer a more friendly alias. One t= hat would make sense on a double-sided business card for example. -Shawn --_000_CAD7705D4A93814F97D3EF00790AF0B315F4E0B2tk5ex14mbxc105r_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I realize that a UTF-8 email address and the ASCII fallback for that a= ddress are left to the server to figure out, but I was wondering if anyone = had any preconceptions?
 
I can think of 3 basic ways to solve generating ASCII addresses: = 1) Some sort of encoding mechanism that is algorithmic and likely makes an = unreadable ASCII address, 2) aliasing, where aliasing happens automagically= , like perhaps Cyrillic to ASCII transliteration, and 3) aliasing where the ASCII alias doesn't necessarily correlate with t= he native-script form.
 
My preconception is that the last is the most useful, unless the nativ= e script has well-defined transiliteration to Latin rules. 
 
Furthermore I'd expect that when I created a new account on something = like live mail/gmail/yahoo mail, that it'd be nice to get prompted for both= the Unicode and ASCII aliases, possibly with a generate ASCII alias button= for users that aren't as familier with that form. 
 
Lastly, I'd assume that "enabling" EAI on such a system, suc= h as with a Chinese ISP, would mean that when I log in with an existing ASC= II address, I could be prompted with a "Get your chinese alias now!&qu= ot; button, so that I wouldn't have to make a new account or lose service/migrate messages, etc. from my old account.
 
It occurred to me that what I think is obvious may not be what everyon= e/anyone else is thinking.  Does anyone care to share any other option= s or whether they agree?  I know that earlier Mark had suggested a pun= ycode form, but I'd assumed that most end-users would prefer a more friendly alias.  One that would make sense on a double-= sided business card for example.
 
-Shawn
 
--_000_CAD7705D4A93814F97D3EF00790AF0B315F4E0B2tk5ex14mbxc105r_-- From yangwooko@gmail.com Fri Jun 26 18:09:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7560C3A6B7B for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:09:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q1AjtkOocqVx for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-px0-f174.google.com (mail-px0-f174.google.com [209.85.216.174]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619FC3A6ADE for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pxi4 with SMTP id 4so190258pxi.29 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:09:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NuZwRdUgH5+PoJUFgZE1RXyD85i+UAqariohomJYpVk=; b=wKL7qBDAbPjS6EUAGNvFoe5VcPWtgrWT1dODlVORbsf9GBkqUrRs68KEjm1MfuiW7j M5NopB+vZKjcVFdXTGeyilNSEIHmlOEm/uPIAjA15auKoYCk9puW7QlsPrIsqNY5sUsW GwEjzx5/dkGW6Mtenp3yZpDIujL3VvonEqjNk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=oIwtiHiYL2h5+IHf4x8fFNlVc0ZRhjxTHUPmd3Ebg/XdXmPeWHgT5qBbN4X05aD69K bhbtrIJpvAY4sMRa67eieb40q5A4pmJXUsgI5x23irYy8iPhZEz+ktZSnpJFph66udka zLNcRifXPWASDfC7yCtLGvlHSasF+Xpdjatcs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: yangwooko@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.92.20 with SMTP id p20mr6845187wab.187.1246064944854; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:09:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:09:04 +0900 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 398f0e73afa25efc Message-ID: From: Yangwoo Ko To: Shawn Steele Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:10:25 -0000 On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Shawn Steele w= rote: > I realize that a UTF-8 email address and the ASCII fallback for that addr= ess > are left to the server to figure out, but I was wondering if anyone had a= ny > preconceptions? > > I can think of=C2=A03 basic ways to solve generating ASCII addresses: 1) = Some > sort of encoding mechanism that is algorithmic and likely makes an > unreadable ASCII address, 2) aliasing, where aliasing happens automagical= ly, > like perhaps Cyrillic to ASCII transliteration, and 3) aliasing where the > ASCII alias doesn't necessarily correlate with the native-script form. First and second options are unacceptable in many ways including technically and culturally. > My preconception is that the last is the most useful, unless the native > script has well-defined transiliteration to Latin rules. > > Furthermore I'd expect that when I created a new account on something lik= e > live mail/gmail/yahoo mail, that it'd be nice to get prompted for both th= e > Unicode and ASCII aliases, possibly with a generate ASCII alias button fo= r > users that aren't as familier with that form. Well it seems to depend on cases. For instance, if such a mail service provider only provided (or were only known for its) ASCII domain name, it would be far less useful to support registration of unicode local part resulting in unicode@ascii.domain. > > Lastly, I'd assume that "enabling" EAI on such a system, such as with a > Chinese ISP, would mean that when I log in with an existing ASCII address= , I > could be prompted with a "Get your chinese alias now!" button, so that I > wouldn't have to make a new account or lose service/migrate messages, > etc.=C2=A0from my old account. As a marketing term, "alias" can be used. But, technically, we should not call them as alias because we are not providing a technical binding between them except delivering the fact that user of those mail addresses bound the= m together. > > It occurred to me that what I think is obvious may not be what > everyone/anyone else is thinking.=C2=A0 Does anyone care to share any oth= er > options or whether they agree?=C2=A0 I know that earlier Mark had suggest= ed a > punycode form, but I'd assumed that most=C2=A0end-users=C2=A0would prefer= a more > friendly alias.=C2=A0 One that would make sense on a double-sided busines= s card > for example. I agree with the double sided business card analogy in a sense that it requ= ires human & manual intervention to bind/match two different names and that we usually don't need to look at both sides. > > -Shawn > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > --=20 a human / twitter as yangwooko / msn as newcat_kr@yahoo.co.kr / nate as yangwooko@nate.com From bortzmeyer@nic.fr Sun Jun 28 02:13:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C420A3A6A73 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:13:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.496, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pnfqkn7-ZKP8 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (bortzmeyer-1-pt.tunnel.tserv10.par1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f12:420::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F623A68A1 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 694DA94CA6; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:13:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: by horcrux (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 63463157884; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:56:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:56:35 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Ernie Dainow Message-ID: <20090627195635.GA14125@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> References: <4A3FA114.3070007@ca.afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4A3FA114.3070007@ca.afilias.info> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Ubuntu 8.10 (intrepid) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: EAI Subject: Re: [EAI] Downgrade testing X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:13:18 -0000 On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:19:48AM -0400, Ernie Dainow wrote a message of 41 lines which said: > The Downgrade test reported on the wiki basically tested against gmail. > It would be valuable to do more testing 'in the wild' to see how > Downgrade traverses various email systems in other organizations. You can test against various auto-responders which send you back your message (if you know other email addresses of auto-responders, do not hesitate to publish them). * echo@generic-nic.net * echo@nic.fr * Echo@TU-Berlin.DE * echo@tu-chemnitz.de * echo@ouain.com * repondsmoi@crdp.ac-versailles.fr * echo@cnam.fr * ping@stamper.itconsult.co.uk * ping@oleane.net * check-auth@verifier.port25.com From yaojk@cnnic.cn Sun Jun 28 02:44:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF003A69AD for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:44:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.281 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.058, BAYES_40=-0.185, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id biOQKP2XH3Bb for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E3EAA3A68B4 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:43:57 +0800 Message-ID: <446182237.17269@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO whatisfuture) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:43:57 +0800 Message-ID: <008e01c9f7d4$f2c69dc0$2801aa73@whatisfuture> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "Shawn Steele" , References: <446059125.14465@cnnic.cn> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:43:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C9F818.003E3470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:44:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C9F818.003E3470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBwZXJzb25hbGx5IGxpa2UgdGhlIG1ldGhvZCAzKWFsaWFzaW5nIHdoZXJlIHRoZSBBU0NJSSBh bGlhcyBkb2Vzbid0IG5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IGNvcnJlbGF0ZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBuYXRpdmUtc2NyaXB0 IGZvcm0uDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgdGhlIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBkaXJlY3Rpb24gZm9yIGNy ZWF0aW9uIG9mIGdlbmVyYXRpbmcgdGhlIEFTQ0lJIGFkZHJlc3MuDQppbiBvdXIgY3VycmVudCBw cm9tb3Rpb24gb2YgRUFJIGZvciBjb21tZXJjaWFsIHVzZSwgbWFueSBlbWFpbCBwcm92aWRlcnMg Y2FyZSBmb3IgdGhpcyBpc3N1ZSB2ZXJ5IG11Y2guDQoNCllhbyBKaWFua2FuZw0KQ05OSUMNCiAg LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCiAgRnJvbTogU2hhd24gU3RlZWxlIA0KICBU 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Crz6T2hIdAj7 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC5C3A68B0 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.159]) by scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id n5T6SKGO031925 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:28:20 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 082c_09fbfcf2_6476_11de_b9e1_001d096c5782; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:28:20 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:35257) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:26:16 +0900 Message-ID: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:27:59 +0900 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090108 Eudora/3.0b1pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shawn Steele References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:28:14 -0000 Hello Shawn, I guess you got it about right. Definitely alternative 3) is more desirable. What might happen, though, especially for some well-known webmail providers, is that the ASCII space is already pretty well used, and new users who need to get a fallback ASCII address with their non-ASCII mail address might have some difficulties finding something they think is appropriate. Not sure much can be done about this. Regards, Martin. On 2009/06/27 8:31, Shawn Steele wrote: > I realize that a UTF-8 email address and the ASCII fallback for that address are left to the server to figure out, but I was wondering if anyone had any preconceptions? > > I can think of 3 basic ways to solve generating ASCII addresses: 1) Some sort of encoding mechanism that is algorithmic and likely makes an unreadable ASCII address, 2) aliasing, where aliasing happens automagically, like perhaps Cyrillic to ASCII transliteration, and 3) aliasing where the ASCII alias doesn't necessarily correlate with the native-script form. > > My preconception is that the last is the most useful, unless the native script has well-defined transiliteration to Latin rules. > > Furthermore I'd expect that when I created a new account on something like live mail/gmail/yahoo mail, that it'd be nice to get prompted for both the Unicode and ASCII aliases, possibly with a generate ASCII alias button for users that aren't as familier with that form. > > Lastly, I'd assume that "enabling" EAI on such a system, such as with a Chinese ISP, would mean that when I log in with an existing ASCII address, I could be prompted with a "Get your chinese alias now!" button, so that I wouldn't have to make a new account or lose service/migrate messages, etc. from my old account. > > It occurred to me that what I think is obvious may not be what everyone/anyone else is thinking. Does anyone care to share any other options or whether they agree? I know that earlier Mark had suggested a punycode form, but I'd assumed that most end-users would prefer a more friendly alias. One that would make sense on a double-sided business card for example. > > -Shawn > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 29 10:12:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C54F83A67A6 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ih4pLSgsKmFo for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE603A69A8 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1MLKPS-000J9n-GM; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:12:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:12:49 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Shawn Steele , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <0E94F731F25F9FA31D69A2F9@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:12:31 -0000 --On Friday, June 26, 2009 23:31 +0000 Shawn Steele wrote: >... > It occurred to me that what I think is obvious may not be what > everyone/anyone else is thinking. Does anyone care to share > any other options or whether they agree? I know that earlier > Mark had suggested a punycode form, but I'd assumed that most > end-users would prefer a more friendly alias. One that would > make sense on a double-sided business card for example. The WG (and some pre-WG effort) discussed this issue in some depth early on and more or less reached the conclusion that you have, with very similar reasoning. The "friendly alias" isn't the only problem with a punycode (or other) encoded form, but we have already had DNS (and other) experience that users who wanted to use native (non-ASCII) characters don't think one has done them any favors by migrating them from a lousy ASCII-based transliteration or mnemonic to an encoded from that isn't even memorable. john From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Mon Jun 29 11:34:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1934728C2E1 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:34:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dxeBe6UsjYCA for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76BE828C2DF for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.7.154) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:34:05 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14HUBC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.7.154]) with mapi; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:34:05 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: AQHJ+ILXgLffd0Seyk2qP20iynTVF5Bd27TA Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:34:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:34:12 -0000 VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgcmVwbGllcywgSSBndWVzcyBJIG1heSBoYXZlIG1pc3NlZCBlYXJsaWVy IGRpc2N1c3Npb24uICBJJ2QgcmVhbGl6ZWQgdGhhdCBJIHdhcyB3b3JraW5nIG9uIHdoYXQgSSB0 aG91Z2h0IHdhcyAiYW4gb2J2aW91cyBhc3N1bXB0aW9uIiBhbmQgZGlkbid0IHJlY2FsbCBtdWNo IGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGlzc3VlLg0KDQpPdGhlciB0aGFuIG5vdCByZXF1aXJpbmcg YSBtYXBwaW5nIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIG1lbnRpb24gb2YgdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUgUkZDcy4gIERpZCBJ IG1pc3MgaXQsIG9yIGRvIHdlIHdhbnQgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGUgcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb24gaW4gb25l IG9mIHRoZSBSRkNzIHRoYXQgdXNlcnMgbWF5IHdhbnQgQVNDSUkgYWRkcmVzcyB0byBiZSBpbiBh IGZyaWVuZGx5IGZvcm0gKHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGVuY29kZWQ/KQ0KDQpJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIHRo aXMgaW1wYWN0cyB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgZGlyZWN0bHksIGJ1dCByYXRoZXIgaXQgbWF5IGltcGFj dCB0aGUgdGhpbmtpbmcgYWJvdXQgdGhlIG92ZXJhbGwgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIG9mIGEgc3lzdGVt IHRoYXQgd29ya3Mgd2l0aCBzdWNoIGFkZHJlc3Nlcy4gIEVnOiBpZiB5b3UgZGVzaWduIGEgc2lu Z2xlLXNpZ24tb24gc3lzdGVtIGV4cGVjdGluZyBVbmljb2RlIGFkZHJlc3NlcyB3aXRoIGVuY29k ZWQgQVNDSUkgeW91IG1heSBtYWtlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBkZWNpc2lvbnMgdGhhdCBpZiB5b3UgYW50 aWNpcGF0ZWQgZnJpZW5kbHkgQVNDSUkgZm9ybXMuDQoNCi1TaGF3bg0KDQo= From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 29 11:55:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6A128C2E8 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:55:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.252, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cHcaE9+adWFp for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F01F28C2D3 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1MLM0X-000Lvm-O9; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:55:14 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:55:12 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Shawn Steele , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:55:21 -0000 --On Monday, June 29, 2009 18:34 +0000 Shawn Steele wrote: > Thanks for the replies, I guess I may have missed earlier > discussion. I'd realized that I was working on what I thought > was "an obvious assumption" and didn't recall much discussion > about the issue. > > Other than not requiring a mapping I don't see mention of this > in the RFCs. Did I miss it, or do we want to make the > recommendation in one of the RFCs that users may want ASCII > address to be in a friendly form (rather than encoded?) We could certainly drop that into Framework, should we revise it. It really isn't a protocol issue because the decision is ultimately up to the user and whatever server he or she is working with. I'm not sure whether it works as an analogy, but I note that there is still no requirement for case-insensitive local-parts in RFC 5321. What it says is that the strings are case sensitive in the protocol but that one will surprise a lot of people, and probably lose some mail, unless at least the obvious case variations work. (FWIW, I've seen server implementations that I consider both conforming and sensible that equate "Shawn", "SHAWN", and "shawn" but that would reject "ShAwN" as not matching the others.) ASCII alternate addresses are different from that because there are no generally-applicable algorithms (even if some systems might choose to use them, contrary to the recommendations we might make), but it is still ultimately up to the server. > I don't think this impacts the standard directly, but rather > it may impact the thinking about the overall architecture of a > system that works with such addresses. Eg: if you design a > single-sign-on system expecting Unicode addresses with encoded > ASCII you may make different decisions that if you anticipated > friendly ASCII forms. For many reasons, I would hope that no one would do that at all and that, except in the cases where the alternative address is routed to separate systems for translation if needed, alternate addresses would be supported by mailbox aliases rather than separate mailboxes with potentially separate sign-on. If I recall, Framework does discuss that issue to some small extent but it has been a long time since I looked at it. Think about it this way: the alternate address is expected to be just that -- an alternate address, not an alternate identity. It is going to be meaningful only in the email environment and, one hopes, only during transition. You want the user to establish and use one key identity, not a selection of alternatives. If your identity system is Unicode compatible, then that key identity --especially for users of non-Latin keyboards-- will be Unicode and whatever makes sense to the user and system. If the user doesn't have a keyboard that accommodates the relevant character set, an escaping system is going to be painful and one more complex than either U+nnnn or \nnnn notation is going to be error-prone and _very_ confusing to all concerned. john From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Mon Jun 29 12:11:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86AA3A6B53 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:11:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.593 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2CclXSgBElqo for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3250F3A69C0 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.178) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:10:50 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.178]) with mapi; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:10:50 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: John C Klensin , "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: AQHJ+ILXgLffd0Seyk2qP20iynTVF5Bd27TAgAB+4gD//42i4A== Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:10:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:11:44 -0000 PiBUaGluayBhYm91dCBpdCB0aGlzIHdheTogIHRoZSBhbHRlcm5hdGUgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBleHBl Y3RlZCB0bw0KPiBiZSBqdXN0IHRoYXQgLS0gYW4gYWx0ZXJuYXRlIGFkZHJlc3MsIG5vdCBhbiBh bHRlcm5hdGUgaWRlbnRpdHkuDQoNClRoYXQncyB3aGF0IEkgbWVhbnQgZm9yIFNTTy4gIFNTTyB3 b3VsZCBoYXZlIHRvICJrbm93IiB0aGF0IFVuaWNvZGVAeHh4IGFuZCBBc2NpaUB4eHggd2VyZW4n dCBkaWZmZXJlbnQgaWRlbnRpdGllcywgYnV0IHJhdGhlciB0aGUgc2FtZSBpZGVudGl0eS4gIChB c3N1bWluZyB0aGF0IHNvbWUgU1NPIGNsaWVudHMgd291bGRuJ3QgYmUgYWJsZSB0byBzdXBwb3J0 IFVuaWNvZGUgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkpLg0KDQpJIGNvdWxkIGZ1cnRoZXIgaW1hZ2luZSBhIFNTTyBV SSB0aGF0IGRpc3BsYXllZCB0aGUgQVNDSUkgZm9ybSAoWW91VW5pY29kZUB4eHggYWthIFlvdUFz Y2lpQHh4eCksIGJ1dCBtYXliZSB0aGV5J2QgZG8gc29tZXRoaW5nIGRpZmZlcmVudCBpZiB0aGV5 IHRob3VnaHQgWW91QXNjaWkgd2FzIGdvaW5nIHRvIGJlIGdpYmJlcmlzaD8NCg0KSSBhZ3JlZSBp dCdzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgYSBwcm90b2NvbCB0aGluZywgYW5kIG1heWJlIG1vcmUgb2YgYSAiZ3Vp ZGVsaW5lcyIgb3IgImJlc3QgcHJhY3RpY2VzIiBjb25jZXB0IHRoYXQgaXNuJ3QgbWF5YmUgZXZl biBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbmVlZCBzcGVsbCBvdXQuLi4NCg0KLVNoYXdu DQoNCg== From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 29 18:30:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB3F3A6A41 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:30:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pbQW7ZGPwAg2 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AFE28C301 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1MLSAu-0005iN-LG; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:30:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:30:19 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Shawn Steele , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <75A929C34FE2E4CDDA24EC8A@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:30:17 -0000 --On Monday, June 29, 2009 19:10 +0000 Shawn Steele wrote: >> Think about it this way: the alternate address is expected to >> be just that -- an alternate address, not an alternate >> identity. > > That's what I meant for SSO. SSO would have to "know" that > Unicode@xxx and Ascii@xxx weren't different identities, but > rather the same identity. (Assuming that some SSO clients > wouldn't be able to support Unicode immediately). But this is email, so "alternate address" would usually imply "alias or forward into the same mailbox". There are, of course, different models, which is what makes it hard to give any sort of definitive advice. As far as SSO clients that can't support Unicode immediately, maybe I have a different picture in mind than you do, but what I keep being told is that, in modern operating systems, everything is sufficiently clean that there is no problem passing a UTF-8 string off to whatever authenticates the user. IMO, permitting non-ASCII addresses and/or mailbox owner names before the authenticator is ready to deal with those would be pretty close to nuts. Put differently, I'd want to design my SSO systems, etc., on the assumption that alternate addresses didn't exist and that they were, at best, a short-term transitional convenience. If my receiving mail systems and the user access to them weren't fully Unicode-identifier and Unicode-authenticator compatible, support for alternate addresses would just be an invitation for increased support costs and/or irritated users. I'd much rather listen to "why haven't you implemented this yet" rather than "well, you implemented it, you did a half-a**ed job, and you botched it completely and made it unusable". I presume, so would you. So, let's take Windows Live Mail / Hotmail as an example. I'd think the first deployment step would be to permit the SSO system to handle non-ASCII user IDs and related credentials, even if those credentials accessed only those mailboxes with ASCII local-parts (I don't know, but I suspect you are there already). _Then_ I'd permit mailboxes with non-ASCII local parts, probably as more of a replacement for whatever ASCII ones the user had earlier rather than as a complement. And, if I saw the demand, and I probably would, I'd offer users of those new mailboxes ASCII aliases for the mailboxes --aliases that could be used as alternate addresses in EAI downgrade but, far more important, could be put on business cards and the like for senders who had no internationalized address handling capability at all. Note that, if the MUAs and Submission servers are 5321/5322/4409-conformant they can't use either non-ASCII addresses or Alternate-addresses at all. Assuming no one is doing anything really stupid, there are only two case in which Downgrading is really useful. One involves an originating system that is EAI-conformant _and_ a receiving one that is EAI-conformant enough to support non-ASCII addresses but where there is a relay in the middle that is not EAI-conformant. I think that case is almost always configuration error (having an EAI-conformant receiving system whose users advertise non-ASCII addresses configured with MX records pointing to a non-EAI-conformant machines is not the smartest idea), but it falls short of "really stupid". The other case has mostly to do with backward-pointing addresses, i.e., your sending mail using a non-ASCII address from your EAI-conformant system to my perfectly good ASCII address (with no non-ASCII address or alternate for me). For all of the other cases I've been able to imagine the "downgrading" is going to have to be done by the user at the sending end or some agent close enough to her that the only things that go on the wire are ASCII addresses. > I could further imagine a SSO UI that displayed the ASCII form > (YouUnicode@xxx aka YouAscii@xxx), but maybe they'd do > something different if they thought YouAscii was going to be > gibberish? Maybe. But I'm still not sure that it would show the alternate address any more than you see Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com aka SHAWN.STEELE@microsoft.com (or, if you have been there long enough to have used what I gather is the older convention, "aka shawns@microsoft.com"). One identity, zero or more aliases for email and perhaps zero or more aliases for other purposes. > I agree it's not really a protocol thing, and maybe more of a > "guidelines" or "best practices" concept that isn't maybe even > something the working group need spell out... Yep. And it obviously looks a bit different depending on the direction from which one looks. john From yaojk@cnnic.cn Mon Jun 29 18:52:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58AC3A6B7B for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:52:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.619 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.662, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hDrWxOpbOWzq for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CA263A6BE4 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:53:11 +0800 Message-ID: <446326791.08619@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO whatisfuture) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:53:11 +0800 Message-ID: <049801c9f925$839499f0$236ff1da@whatisfuture> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "EAI WG" Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:53:06 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0496_01C9F968.9185CD70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Subject: [EAI] Fw: I-D Action:draft-yao-eai-deployment-01.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:52:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01C9F968.9185CD70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQoNCkkgdXBkYXRlZCBkcmFmdC15YW8tZWFpLWRlcGxveW1lbnQgdG8gdmVyc2lvbiAxLg0KYW55 IGNvbW1lbnQgaXMgd2VsY29tZWQuDQoNCg0KWWFvIEppYW5rYW5nDQpDTk5JQw0KLS0tLS0gT3Jp Z2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCkZyb206IDxJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpU bzogPGktZC1hbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIEp1bmUgMzAsIDIwMDkg OTozMCBBTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogSS1EIEFjdGlvbjpkcmFmdC15YW8tZWFpLWRlcGxveW1lbnQtMDEu dHh0IA0KDQoNCj5BIE5ldyBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgb24t bGluZSBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdHMgZGlyZWN0b3JpZXMuDQo+IA0KPiBUaXRsZSAgICAgICAgICAg OiBFQUkgRGVwbG95bWVudCBQcmFjdGljZXMNCj4gQXV0aG9yKHMpICAgICAgIDogSi4gWWFvLCBY LiBMZWUNCj4gRmlsZW5hbWUgICAgICAgIDogZHJhZnQteWFvLWVhaS1kZXBsb3ltZW50LTAxLnR4 dA0KPiBQYWdlcyAgICAgICAgICAgOiAxMQ0KPiBEYXRlICAgICAgICAgICAgOiAyMDA5LTA2LTI5 DQo+IA0KPiBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGNhcHR1cmVzIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgaW4gaW1wbGVtZW50aW5n IHN5c3RlbXMgYmFzZWQgb24NCj4gdGhlIEVBSSBwcm90b2NvbHMuICBJdHMgYWltIGlzIHRvIGhl bHAgdGhlIGVuZ2luZWVycyB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQNCj4gdGhlc2UgcHJvdG9jb2xzLiAgVGhpcyBk b2N1bWVudCBnaXZlcyBzb21lIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zIGFib3V0DQo+IGltcGxlbWVudGFpb25zIGFu ZCByZXBvcnRzIG9uIHRoZSBwcm90b3R5cGUgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gYW5kIHRoZQ0KPiBpbnRl ci1vcGVyYWJpbGl0eSB0ZXN0IHJlc3VsdHMsIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgdGhlIGxlc3NvbnMgYW5kIGlu c2lnaHRzDQo+IGdhaW5lZCBmcm9tIHRoaXMgdGVzdC4NCj4gDQo+IEEgVVJMIGZvciB0aGlzIElu dGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IGlzOg0KPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9k cmFmdC15YW8tZWFpLWRlcGxveW1lbnQtMDEudHh0DQo+IA0KPiBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdHMgYXJl IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6DQo+IGZ0cDovL2Z0cC5pZXRmLm9y Zy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvDQo+IA0KPiBCZWxvdyBpcyB0aGUgZGF0YSB3aGljaCB3aWxsIGVu YWJsZSBhIE1JTUUgY29tcGxpYW50IG1haWwgcmVhZGVyDQo+IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIHRvIGF1 dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgcmV0cmlldmUgdGhlIEFTQ0lJIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgdGhlDQo+IEludGVybmV0 LURyYWZ0Lg0KPg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJLUQtQW5ub3VuY2UgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IEktRC1Bbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ktZC1hbm5vdW5jZQ0KPiBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBkaXJlY3Rv cmllczogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9zaGFkb3cuaHRtbA0KPiBvciBmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvaWV0Zi8xc2hhZG93LXNpdGVzLnR4dA0KPg== ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01C9F968.9185CD70 Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-yao-eai-deployment-01.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-yao-eai-deployment-01.txt" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-06-29182543.I-D@ietf.org> ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01C9F968.9185CD70-- From sm@resistor.net Mon Jun 29 22:51:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2663A6DFD for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:51:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.67 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.071, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z7cxu14iA8Cr for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F5F28C188 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from subman.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.4.Alpha0/8.14.4.Alpha0) with ESMTP id n5U5ppRF029033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:51:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1246341121; x=1246427521; bh=hZsSLhU/Z0cGbmnlx6ZMU0n8FzOc+5cKI0CCeTsa1tU=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=keXUnXVCBR8f3w5Jjfimy1wEYNYhUnvYyVcdv+ZsxRnPIuhyzex28lwZdP39bID6A WW2ZcYZ+Ix8DypDDgY1cUiojPSHiYTsEh5O0i71klBRNodA1TdaV1kkL3jdxCQGwKa YuIceIzdcYkeAi73hl7eCHoBHyanoaq+JbpSTy5o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=Ih4ZfdH14mLQbUkbiHY2YYydALwaSmShogh/mU7tq7i/op/5z8p/fB7yGpxzD0F3X CSF+yiS+kLEtO/g9ze/Ksb0cGV2A7icWIumtU5oo43jKPrBi5+0aseKSA9q0Ul4Emac TnvS/EqA5gX+Alb+UPIh2vDxgiVWE4zwh7MnOhg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:51:29 -0700 To: Shawn Steele From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:51:44 -0000 Hi Shawn, At 12:10 29-06-2009, Shawn Steele wrote: >That's what I meant for SSO. SSO would have to "know" that >Unicode@xxx and Ascii@xxx weren't different identities, but rather >the same identity. (Assuming that some SSO clients wouldn't be able >to support Unicode immediately). That sounds like identity linking. In the world of email, it would be more of an alias if the delivery goes to the same mailbox. It may be easier for a user to manage that if the fallback behavior is intuitive. Let's consider a user in an "EAI" region. The user will probably have an EAI aware interface for email. The only time when the user needs to deal with the Ascii@example email address is when he/she has to communicate the email address to someone using a non-EAI service. If the Unicode@example email address is considered as an add-on feature, it may have an adverse effect on EAI in the long term. >I could further imagine a SSO UI that displayed the ASCII form >(YouUnicode@xxx aka YouAscii@xxx), but maybe they'd do something >different if they thought YouAscii was going to be gibberish? It may appear as gibberish for a native. >I agree it's not really a protocol thing, and maybe more of a >"guidelines" or "best practices" concept that isn't maybe even >something the working group need spell out... It would be good to have a common concept for "selling" EAI. You also have to convince the "legacy" world to support it. Regards, -sm From chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Tue Jun 30 05:19:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E76B3A6A2D for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:19:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.061 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.061 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.538, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R9mTlNPUpgX8 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-5.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-5.gradwell.net [79.135.125.99]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2333A68F6 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [80.175.135.89] ([80.175.135.89] helo=clerew.man.ac.uk country=GB ident=postmaster&pop3^clerew*man*ac#uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-5.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.290) id 4a49f9d5.1f5a.18f for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:41:09 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Received: from clerew.man.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n5UBf8Sr010928 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:41:09 +0100 (BST) To: IMA From: "Charles Lindsey" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> <75A929C34FE2E4CDDA24EC8A@PST.JCK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:41:08 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.25 (SunOS) Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:19:58 -0000 On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:30:19 +0100, John C Klensin wrote: > So, let's take Windows Live Mail / Hotmail as an example. I'd > think the first deployment step would be to permit the SSO > system to handle non-ASCII user IDs and related credentials, > even if those credentials accessed only those mailboxes with > ASCII local-parts (I don't know, but I suspect you are there > already). _Then_ I'd permit mailboxes with non-ASCII local > parts, probably as more of a replacement for whatever ASCII ones > the user had earlier rather than as a complement. And, if I saw > the demand, and I probably would, I'd offer users of those new > mailboxes ASCII aliases for the mailboxes --aliases that could > be used as alternate addresses in EAI downgrade but, far more > important, could be put on business cards and the like for > senders who had no internationalized address handling capability > at all. The sort of scenario I would expect is a 'sign up' window (in Chinese, of course) that invites you to to fill in some 'User ID' box (in Chinese, and probably with a little '*' beside to show it was an obligatory field). Then there would be another (non-obligatory) box for 'ASCII User ID', perhaps with a little "click here for explanation" (in Chinese) beside it; and if you clicked that the popup would explain that if it was likely you would need to exchange email messages with non-Chinese correspondents using non-Chinese characters, it wold be a Good Idea to fill in some ASCII ID here; but otherwise to leave it blank. So a Chinese person who had no expectation of sending such emails, or did not know what Latin/ASCII chacaters looked like and/or how to make his keyboard produce them would not bother. But a Chinese person who had a slight smattering of English, and maybe already had some anglicised transliteration of his name, might Have a Go (and I guess that there is quite a significant proportion of Chinese people who would indeed do so). Of course, both of his IDs would have to be Unique amongst all IDs known to the Hotmail/Whatever system, but that is a problem we already have, and which already leads to typically obscure and un-memorable Hotmail/Whatever addresses :-( . -- Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131     Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5 From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Tue Jun 30 10:11:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981CE3A6A3E for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.593 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SY7Rg9RtD7PW for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25513A68E5 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.178) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:10:38 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.178]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:10:38 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: SM Thread-Topic: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: AQHJ+ILXgLffd0Seyk2qP20iynTVF5Bd27TAgAB+4gD//42i4IAAtKkhgAC2zXY= Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:10:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> , <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:11:34 -0000 My presumption is that the ASCII & Unicode aliases are indeed going to the = same mailbox and that ASCII is ONLY used for downgrading when the Unicode f= ails. I expect that users do NOT want 2 mail accounts just so they can int= eract with non-EAI users. Instead I expect most systems to support two add= resses (one IMA Unicode, one downgrade ASCII) for the same mailbox. I supp= ose you could view this as an "add-on", however I'd make the EAI address be= the primary address. I'm not sure it's an add-on if the add-on takes over= :) This also impacts address books, etc. Were I to own something like Live Mail or gMail or an ISP. (I'm in Windows= , I only provide guidance to the Live teams,) then I'd enable an alias. If= I was a Chinese ISP, then in early 2010, after the Nov 2009 Chinese standa= rds come out, I could put up a banner saying "pick your Chinese email addre= ss now", which would enable an additional alias for the existing user accou= nt. Then I'd get nearly 100% adoption of EAI names for my service in marke= ts like China. If I make users get new accounts, adoption rates would be l= ow. But that's just me :) My initial question was to try to get a feel for how= other developers might approach the problem. -Shawn ________________________________________ From: SM [sm@resistor.net] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:51 PM To: Shawn Steele Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Hi Shawn, At 12:10 29-06-2009, Shawn Steele wrote: >That's what I meant for SSO. SSO would have to "know" that >Unicode@xxx and Ascii@xxx weren't different identities, but rather >the same identity. (Assuming that some SSO clients wouldn't be able >to support Unicode immediately). That sounds like identity linking. In the world of email, it would be more of an alias if the delivery goes to the same mailbox. It may be easier for a user to manage that if the fallback behavior is intuitive. Let's consider a user in an "EAI" region. The user will probably have an EAI aware interface for email. The only time when the user needs to deal with the Ascii@example email address is when he/she has to communicate the email address to someone using a non-EAI service. If the Unicode@example email address is considered as an add-on feature, it may have an adverse effect on EAI in the long term= . >I could further imagine a SSO UI that displayed the ASCII form >(YouUnicode@xxx aka YouAscii@xxx), but maybe they'd do something >different if they thought YouAscii was going to be gibberish? It may appear as gibberish for a native. >I agree it's not really a protocol thing, and maybe more of a >"guidelines" or "best practices" concept that isn't maybe even >something the working group need spell out... It would be good to have a common concept for "selling" EAI. You also have to convince the "legacy" world to support it. Regards, -sm From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Tue Jun 30 10:41:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91993A69A4 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.594 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.594 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4AhcJjKwgpcr for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051723A67FF for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.174) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:41:15 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.174]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:41:15 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: AQHJ+an2yZqLK5kqVESCRKz4D3zXfg== Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:37:41 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:41:49 -0000 > The sort of scenario I would expect is a 'sign up' window (in Chinese, of > course) that invites you to to fill in some 'User ID' box (in Chinese, an= d > probably with a little '*' beside to show it was an obligatory field). > Then there would be another (non-obligatory) box for 'ASCII User ID', > perhaps with a little "click here for explanation" (in Chinese) beside it= ; > and if you clicked that the popup would explain that if it was likely you > would need to exchange email messages with non-Chinese correspondents > using non-Chinese characters, it wold be a Good Idea to fill in some ASCI= I > ID here; but otherwise to leave it blank. Exactly. I was more focused on the migration/adoption of EAI from existing= accounts though. Most users don't want to have to tell everyone a new add= ress, so existing accounts would have to "add" the EAI address. Presumably= it'd become "primary", however I don't think we want to have to force ever= yone to get a brand new mailbox. The more abstract problem I'm trying to solve is "How fast is EAI going to = be adopted?" so that I can provide business guidance. The fastest adoption= path would be adding EAI to existing accounts :) -Shawn From sm@resistor.net Tue Jun 30 12:39:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077773A6B97 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:39:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.668 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.668 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UKIayhRvIbEN for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D38B3A6A96 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from subman.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.4.Alpha0/8.14.4.Alpha0) with ESMTP id n5UJcHpP000475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:38:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1246390708; x=1246477108; bh=N45C3VMGRxkJvbinHBKj7DRvwZIYWeIrovAun35W1us=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=XBM5V3pIk0mPOE9qliu9zZkMQ4mveCD41bEDNN1kGQpYfJZEDSEx51W3wNDr6sf64 O3yF1la+Ir19HJPtsH6FbulEr6v6TMsHlox8n7lUjYbeINTYOenqBN/WGp0z9brQUk XHCYn6/+Q0MqI7pLnAnN3sJObNkHP5GMpUBmXPFw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=zUOvKHzxvjLwSbADBUYIapxN+lftS0Yqu/atJXAS248wRz3pPw02Dj2YcYzW6N+Ga Knt8ZfgS8+DF0EFEYgF3N4Drnzn8XgVcdAxMz/mUAmzv4krI8+lRHFdf2HA/SJtx7h4 k3YYqM5MORw/9yPxJlbYw7mAT64yEL+AzWTgtuM= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20090630105355.04290ec8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:35:28 -0700 To: Shawn Steele From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:39:57 -0000 Hi Shawn, At 10:10 30-06-2009, Shawn Steele wrote: >My presumption is that the ASCII & Unicode aliases are indeed going >to the same mailbox and that ASCII is ONLY used for downgrading when >the Unicode fails. I expect that users do NOT want 2 mail accounts >just so they can interact with non-EAI users. Instead I expect most >systems to support two addresses (one IMA Unicode, one downgrade >ASCII) for the same mailbox. I suppose you could view this as an >"add-on", however I'd make the EAI address be the primary >address. I'm not sure it's an add-on if the add-on takes over :) If we are thinking in technical terms, we are going to draw up constraints based on existing systems. I don't think that the model should even emphasize the downgrade ASCII address as it's only there to support legacy systems. The premise is that the EAI address is the primary address and not an add-on. It may be tempting to graft EAI on an existing infrastructure. But then we'll end up with hacks for the next 30 years. :-) >This also impacts address books, etc. There are several other areas where email addresses are used. I vaguely recall seeing an Internet-Draft or a RFC about the subject. Should we store the EAI address in the address book or the ASCII address if the English user has a system that is EAI aware? If we choose the ASCII address, we are not really internationalizing. As it's not a technical issue, I don't know where such questions can be discussed. >Were I to own something like Live Mail or gMail or an ISP. (I'm in >Windows, I only provide guidance to the Live teams,) then I'd enable >an alias. If I was a Chinese ISP, then in early 2010, after the Nov >2009 Chinese standards come out, I could put up a banner saying >"pick your Chinese email address now", which would enable an >additional alias for the existing user account. Then I'd get nearly >100% adoption of EAI names for my service in markets like China. If >I make users get new accounts, adoption rates would be low. If you were running Live Mail (used as an example only) you would have some EAI users outside China. Let's assume that you are in the EU as it's one market with over approximately 23 languages. If you offer EAI names, you can cover all these languages in one go. The Chinese ISP is an extreme case as you have a large internal market there. By having a unified system, you create a mindset. If you think in terms of adoption rates, you will end up with complex systems with different behaviors. The glue is how you use the EAI specifications to achieve you objectives. Regards, -sm From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Tue Jun 30 12:56:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A933A6EC2 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x-+GCZavsrK0 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37703A6EBC for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.7.154) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:57:05 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14HUBC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.7.154]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:57:05 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-yao-eai-deployment-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHJ+bzwuEJAs1PGcUGgUwbz19eufg== Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:57:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-yao-eai-deployment-01.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:56:45 -0000 WW91IG1lbnRpb24gdHdpY2UgIkFsdGhvdWdoIGl0IGlzIG5vdCBwb3NzaWJsZSB0byBzdXBwb3J0 IEVBSSBwcm90b2NvbCB3aXRoaW4gb25lIG5pZ2h0LCINCg0KVGhpcyBpcyB0cnVlIG9mIHRoZSBl bnRpcmUgSW50ZXJuZXQsIGhvd2V2ZXIgaW4gYSB2ZXJ0aWNhbCwgc3VjaCBhcyBhIGxhcmdlIElT UCwgb3IgYSBjZWxsIHBob25lIHByb3ZpZGVyLCBFQUkgd291bGQgbGlrZWx5IGJlIGVuYWJsZWQg aW4gb25lIG5pZ2h0LiAgQXQgdGhhdCBwb2ludCB1c2VycyB3b3VsZCBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIGNvbW11 bmljYXRlIHdpdGggb3RoZXJzIG9mIHRoYXQgSVNQIHVzaW5nIEVBSSByZWdhcmRsZXNzIG9mIHdo ZXRoZXIgbXkgbWFpbGJveCByZWNvZ25pemVkIGl0LiAgKE9mIGNvdXJzZSB0aGV5J2QgaGF2ZSB0 byBoYXZlIGNsaWVudHMgdGhhdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgaXQsIGJ1dCBtYW55IGhhdmUgd2ViIGludGVy ZmFjZXMgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBwcmVzdW1hYmx5IGJlICJ0dXJuZWQgb24iIGF0IHRoZSBzYW1lIHRp bWUuKQ0KDQoNCg0KSW4gMi4xICJGcm9tIG5vbi1FQUkgd29ybGQgdG8gRUFJIHdvcmxkIiBwZXJo YXBzIHlvdSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gbWVudGlvbiBtaWdyYXRpb24gb2YgZXhpc3Rpbmcgbm9uLUVBSSBz ZXJ2ZXJzPw0KDQoyLjFhICBNaWdyYXRpb24gb2YgRXhpc3RpbmcgU2VydmVycw0KRXhpc3Rpbmcg c2VydmVycyBhbmQgbWFpbGJveGVzIG1heSBiZSB1cGdyYWRlZCB0byBzdXBwb3J0IEVBSS4gIElu IHRoYXQgY2FzZSBhbiBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBFQUkgYWRkcmVzcyBtdXN0IGJlIGNob3NlbiBmb3Ig dGhlIG1haWxib3gsIGFuZCB0aGUgZXhpc3Rpbmcgbm9uLUVBSSBhZGRyZXNzIG11c3QgYmUgZG93 bmdyYWRlZCB0byB0aGUgYWx0LWFkZHJlc3MgZm9yIHRoYXQgbWFpbGJveC4gIE5ldyBtYWlsIHdv dWxkIGJlIHNlbnQgdXNpbmcgdGhlIG5ldyBFQUkgYWRkcmVzcywgd2hlbiBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkg dGhlIHJlY2lwaWVudCBzeXN0ZW0uICBJZiB0aGUgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBhbHNvIHVzZWQgYXMgYW4g aWRlbnRpdHkgZm9yIGxvZ29uLCB0aGUgc2VydmVyIG1heSB3YW50IHRvIHJlY29nbml6ZSBlaXRo ZXIgZm9ybSBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gcGVyaW9kLg0KDQoNCg0KU2VjdGlvbiA0IGNv bmZ1c2VkIG1lIHdpdGggdGhpcyBzZW50ZW5jZTogIlRoZSBFQUkgcHJvdG9jb2wNCiAgIGFsbG93 cyBvbmx5IFVURi04IGVuY29kaW5nIGluIHRoZSBsb2NhbCBwYXJ0IGluIHRoZSBlbWFpbCBoZWFk ZXIgYW5kDQogICBlbnZlbG9wLiINCg0KVVRGLTggaXMgYWxzbyB1c2VkIGluIHRoZSBib2R5LCBi dXQgSSB0aGluayB5b3Ugd2VyZSBzYXlpbmcgdGhlIGhlYWRlciBNVVNUIGJlIGluIFVURi04PyAg SSB0aGluayB5b3Ugd2VyZSBpbnRlbmRpbmcgdG8gb25seSBkaXNjdXNzIHRoZSBoZWFkZXIsIGJ1 dCBJIGNvdWxkIHJlYWQgaXQgYXMgaXQgaXMgb25seSBhbGxvd2VkIGluIHRoZSBoZWFkZXI/DQoN Cg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KDQotU2hhd24NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpNZXNzYWdlOiAzDQpEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDMwIEp1biAyMDA5IDA5OjUzOjA2ICsw ODAwDQpGcm9tOiAiWUFPIEppYW5rYW5nIiA8eWFvamtAY25uaWMuY24+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbRUFJ XSBGdzogSS1EIEFjdGlvbjpkcmFmdC15YW8tZWFpLWRlcGxveW1lbnQtMDEudHh0DQpUbzogIkVB SSBXRyIgPGltYUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCk1lc3NhZ2UtSUQ6IDw0NDYzMjY3OTEuMDg2MTlAY25uaWMu Y24+DQpDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6IHRleHQvcGxhaW47IGNoYXJzZXQ9Imlzby04ODU5LTEiDQoNCj4g QSBVUkwgZm9yIHRoaXMgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQgaXM6DQo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LXlhby1lYWktZGVwbG95bWVudC0wMS50eHQNCg0KSSB1cGRh dGVkIGRyYWZ0LXlhby1lYWktZGVwbG95bWVudCB0byB2ZXJzaW9uIDEuDQphbnkgY29tbWVudCBp cyB3ZWxjb21lZC4NCg0KDQpZYW8gSmlhbmthbmcNCkNOTklDDQoNCg== From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Tue Jun 30 13:01:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0069D3A6ED9 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:01:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.003, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nn90VcIX6KTx for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A923A67F1 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.159) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:01:00 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.159]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:01:00 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: POP/IMAP authentication? Thread-Index: Acn5vXwK8BELrz2KRyqpkdn4asHamw== Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:00:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CAD7705D4A93814F97D3EF00790AF0B315F536BDtk5ex14mbxc105r_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [EAI] POP/IMAP authentication? 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YnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCg0KPC9kaXY+DQoNCjwvYm9keT4NCg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_CAD7705D4A93814F97D3EF00790AF0B315F536BDtk5ex14mbxc105r_-- From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Tue Jun 30 13:36:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B4228C46E for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:36:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I9IJ3L070vZb for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E7528C46C for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.174) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:37:02 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.174]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:37:02 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: SM Thread-Topic: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: AQHJ+ILXgLffd0Seyk2qP20iynTVF5Bd27TAgAB+4gD//42i4IAAtKkhgAC2zXaAADCKMoAACkXw Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:36:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20090630105355.04290ec8@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20090630105355.04290ec8@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:36:58 -0000 PiBJZiB3ZSBhcmUgdGhpbmtpbmcgaW4gdGVjaG5pY2FsIHRlcm1zLCB3ZSBhcmUgZ29pbmcgdG8g ZHJhdyB1cA0KPiBjb25zdHJhaW50cyBiYXNlZCBvbiBleGlzdGluZyBzeXN0ZW1zLiAgSSBkb24n dCB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoZSBtb2RlbA0KPiBzaG91bGQgZXZlbiBlbXBoYXNpemUgdGhlIGRvd25n cmFkZSBBU0NJSSBhZGRyZXNzIGFzIGl0J3Mgb25seSB0aGVyZQ0KPiB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGxlZ2Fj eSBzeXN0ZW1zLiAgVGhlIHByZW1pc2UgaXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgRUFJIGFkZHJlc3MgaXMNCj4gdGhl IHByaW1hcnkgYWRkcmVzcyBhbmQgbm90IGFuIGFkZC1vbi4gIEl0IG1heSBiZSB0ZW1wdGluZyB0 byBncmFmdA0KPiBFQUkgb24gYW4gZXhpc3RpbmcgaW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUuIEJ1dCB0aGVuIHdl J2xsIGVuZCB1cCB3aXRoIGhhY2tzDQo+IGZvciB0aGUgbmV4dCAzMCB5ZWFycy4gOi0pDQoNCkkg ZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgSSBleHBsYWluZWQgbXlzZWxmIGNvcnJlY3RseS4gIEknbSBub3Qgc3VnZ2Vz dGluZyB0aGF0IEVBSSBiZSBoYWNrZWQgb24gdG8gdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIHN5c3RlbSwgYW5kIHRo aW5rIGl0J3MgZG9pbmcgd2VsbCBmb3IgYSBjbGVhbiBhcHByb2FjaC4gIFJlZ2FyZGxlc3MgdGhl cmUgd2lsbCBiZSBhIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gcGVyaW9kLiAgQWxsIEknbSBzYXlpbmcgaXMgdGhhdCBp dCdzIG5vdCBoYXJkIHRvIG1pZ3JhdGUgYSBjdXJyZW50IEFTQ0lJIHN5c3RlbSB0byBhbiBFQUkg c3lzdGVtLiAgSXQncyBhbHNvIG5vdCB0aGF0IGRpZmZlcmVudCB0aGFuIGEgY2xlYW4gRUFJIHN5 c3RlbS4NCg0KQnJhbmQgbmV3IEVBSSBzeXN0ZW06DQoqIE5lZWRzIGEgVW5pY29kZSBlbmFibGVk IGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MNCiogTmVlZHMgYW4gYWxpYXMgKGFsdC1hZGRyZXNzKQ0KKiBTaG91bGQg dXNlIHRoZSBVbmljb2RlIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MgaW4gRUFJIGNvbnRleHRzLg0KDQooVGhpcyBp cyBhIGxvdCBsaWtlIGhvdyBzaGF3bnN0ZUBtaWNyb3NvZnQuY29tIGFuZCBTaGF3bi5TdGVlbGVA bWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbSBib3RoIGdldCBtYWlsIHRvIG1lLiAgT25lIGlzIHVzZWQgYnkgbXkgbWFp bGVyLCBhbmQgdGhlIGFsdC1hZGRyZXNzIGlzbid0IHR5cGljYWxseSBhZHZlcnRpc2VkLCBidXQg aXQgY291bGQgYmUuKQ0KDQpUaGUgbmV3IGFjY291bnQgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSBpbiBzdWNoIGEgc3lz dGVtOg0KMS4gU2lnbiB1cCBmb3IgYW4gYWNjb3VudA0KICAgICAgICBhKSBVc2VyIGlzIHByb21w dGVkIGZvciBhIHByaW1hcnkgYWNjb3VudCBuYW1lLCBjb3VsZCBiZSBub24tQVNDSUkgKG9yIEFT Q0lJIGlmIHRoZXkgZG9uJ3QgbmVlZCBVbmljb2RlKQ0KICAgICAgICBiKSBJZiBub24tQVNDSUks IHRoZSB1c2VyIGlzIHByb21wdGVkIGZvciBhbiBvcHRpb25hbCBhbHQtYWRkcmVzcywgd2l0aCB0 aGUgY2F2ZWF0IHRoYXQgaWYgdGhleSBkb24ndCBwaWNrIG9uZSBpdCBtaWdodCBub3Qgd29yayBl dmVyeXdoZXJlLg0KICAgICAgICBjKSBUaGUgc3lzdGVtIHN0b3JlcyBib3RoIGFkZHJlc3Nlcy4g IE9uZSBpcyBwcmltYXJ5LCB0aGUgb3RoZXIncyB1c2VkIGZvciBhbHQtYWRkcmVzcyBpbiBub24t RUFJIGF3YXJlIGNvbnRleHRzLg0KDQpBbiBFQUkgc3lzdGVtIHVwZ3JhZGVkIGZyb20gbm9uLUVB SToNCiogQWxyZWFkeSBoYXMgYW4gYWRkcmVzcyB0aGF0IGZpdHMgdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBm b3IgYWx0LWFkZHJlc3MNCiogTmVlZHMgYSBVbmljb2RlIGVuYWJsZWQgZW1haWwgYWxpYXMuDQoq IFRoZSBuZXcgVW5pY29kZSBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzIHNob3VsZCBiZSAicHJpbWFyeSIgYW5kIHVz ZWQgaW4gRUFJIGNvbnRleHRzLg0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIHByZXR0eSBtdWNoIHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzIHRo ZSAiYnJhbmQtbmV3IiBFQUkgc3lzdGVtLg0KDQpUaGUgdXBncmFkaW5nIGFjY291bnQgZXhwZXJp ZW5jZSBpbiBzdWNoIGEgc3lzdGVtOg0KMS4gTG9nb24gdG8gZXhpc3RpbmcgYWNjb3VudA0KICAg ICAgICBhKSBVc2VyIGlzIHByb21wdGVkIGZvciB0aGUgVW5pY29kZSBFQUkgYWNjb3VudCBuYW1l IChpZiBkZXNpcmVkKS4NCiAgICAgICAgYikgQWxyZWFkeSBoYXMgYW4gQVNDSUkgYWRkcmVzcywg c28gcHJvbXB0IG5vdCBuZWNlc3NhcnkgZm9yIHRoYXQuDQogICAgICAgIGMpIFRoZSBzeXN0ZW0g c3RvcmVzIHRoZSBuZXcgVW5pY29kZSBFQUkgYWNjb3VudCBuYW1lLiAgVGhpcyB3aWxsIGJlIHVz ZWQgYXMgdGhlIHByaW1hcnkgYWNjb3VudCBuYW1lIG5vdyBhbmQgaW4gRUFJIGNvbnRleHRzLiAg VGhlICJvbGQgbmFtZSIgd2lsbCBiZSB1c2VkIGZvciBhbHQtYWRkcmVzc2VzLiAgSWYgbmVjZXNz YXJ5IGl0IGNvdWxkIGV2ZW4gZmxpcC1mbG9wIHRoZSByZWNvcmRzIHRvIGxvb2sgbGlrZSB0aGUg Im5ldyBlYWkiIHN5c3RlbSwgYnV0IEkgZG91YnQgaXQgbWF0dGVycy4NCg0KU28gSSBkb24ndCBn ZXQgaG93IHRoaXMgY29udGFtaW5hdGVzIHRoZSBFQUkgc3RhbmRhcmRzPyAgVGhlIGFyY2hpdGVj dHVyZSBpcyBlZmZlY3RpdmVseSBpZGVudGljYWwgaW4gdGhlIGJyYW5kLW5ldyBFQUkgc3lzdGVt IGFuZCB0aGUgdXBncmFkZWQgc3lzdGVtLiAgSXQncyBub3QgYSBoYWNrLCBidXQgYSBtaWdyYXRp b24gcGF0aC4gIFRoZSBuaWNlIHRoaW5nIGlzIHRoYXQgaW4gdGhlIHVwZ3JhZGVkIHN5c3RlbSBh IHVzZXIgZ2V0cyB0byBrZWVwIHRoZWlyIG9sZCBtYWlsYm94LCBhbmQgZG9lc24ndCBoYXZlIHRv IHJlbWVtYmVyIHRvIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGVpciBhZGRyZXNzIHdpdGggYWxsIHRoZWlyIGZyaWVuZHMg YW5kIGJhbmtzLiAgTmV3IGNvbnRhY3RzIGNhbiBnZXQgdGhlIG5ldyBFQUkgbmFtZSwgYnV0IHRo ZXJlJ3Mgbm8gcGFpbiBmb3IgdGhlIHVzZXIuDQoNCkknZCBiZSByZWFsbHkgc3VycHJpc2VkIGlm IG1vc3QgbWFpbCBwcm92aWRlcnMgd2VyZW4ndCBjb25zaWRlcmluZyBzdWNoIGFuIHVwZ3JhZGUg c3RyYXRlZ3kuDQoNCi1TaGF3bg0KDQo= From sm@resistor.net Tue Jun 30 15:54:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D013A6C1A for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.066, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fjk5VF+df1WE for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027D728C47C for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from subman.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.4.Alpha0/8.14.4.Alpha0) with ESMTP id n5UMsGY7021120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:54:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1246402466; x=1246488866; bh=L/CLA/A0vLFQ8zF0tS3hT8eoQ9O2UeQAejLog2gkrvU=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=BAhF32K01tydH46Zi+xhrEdFZH3KcpzmaqRIwSL6OJTWEX0y/qXzO/dXVGYku4G4J ZnAxTw+TJ0ArhalU/Z/s9viHE4rmDRug1HPlxZ2AqDxSFnD79ccYINKlS7hrMc0hsC 9HmFzT2MxoWcvWOhVi22TSvyXnfCAJ1fsPpUAz7M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=SsF/JhCi9D1LHJy65foGaSBuEG9s718pXkZ2ajhWjZeBVBlpqQd9TCVQnwg3TtvPD SwzOV/xv4Y5wImPF3nJv3SMRU0ss70uvZZK2lAAt7Z6Cyct48bU8LZPPwaxLLs8Xrcl 6u1lUgiG8M6sk6BTYKBtpeOctqGKNCdUT9WFmT8= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20090630141058.041fa280@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:45:11 -0700 To: Shawn Steele From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20090630105355.04290ec8@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:54:16 -0000 Hi Shawn, At 13:36 30-06-2009, Shawn Steele wrote: >I don't think I explained myself correctly. I'm not suggesting that >EAI be hacked on to I think that it is I who did not explain myself correctly. I do not consider what you suggested as hacking on EAI. > the existing system, and think it's doing well for a clean > approach. Regardless there will be a transition period. All I'm > saying is that it's not hard to migrate a current ASCII system to > an EAI system. It's also not that different than a clean EAI system. Agreed. >Brand new EAI system: >* Needs a Unicode enabled email address >* Needs an alias (alt-address) >* Should use the Unicode email address in EAI contexts. > >(This is a lot like how shawnste@microsoft.com and >Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com both get mail to me. One is used by my >mailer, and the alt-address isn't typically advertised, but it could be.) If I recall correctly, the initial discussion was about generating the alt-address. I don't know yet whether it should be automated or not for this case. The users I have come across tend to have multiple mailboxes as they do not know about aliases. I have a preference for aliases as it's more convenient. The above should work. >The new account experience in such a system: >1. Sign up for an account > a) User is prompted for a primary account name, could be > non-ASCII (or ASCII if they don't need Unicode) > b) If non-ASCII, the user is prompted for an optional > alt-address, with the caveat that if they don't pick one it might > not work everywhere. If the user is not familiar with email, we have to figure out how to explain alt-address to them. Note that current aliases are familiar to us as we know the characters. > c) The system stores both addresses. One is primary, the > other's used for alt-address in non-EAI aware contexts. > >An EAI system upgraded from non-EAI: >* Already has an address that fits the requirements for alt-address >* Needs a Unicode enabled email alias. >* The new Unicode email address should be "primary" and used in EAI contexts. > >This is pretty much the same as the "brand-new" EAI system. Agreed. >The upgrading account experience in such a system: >1. Logon to existing account > a) User is prompted for the Unicode EAI account name (if desired). > b) Already has an ASCII address, so prompt not necessary for that. > c) The system stores the new Unicode EAI account > name. This will be used as the primary account name now and in EAI > contexts. The "old name" will be used for alt-addresses. If > necessary it could even flip-flop the records to look like the "new > eai" system, but I doubt it matters. Agreed. >So I don't get how this contaminates the EAI standards? The >architecture is effectively It does not contaminate the EAI specifications. My argument was to avoid using the new EAI address as an alternative address. Regards, -sm From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Tue Jun 30 16:21:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE753A6B42 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.003, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C4RggiCY6Mbt for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675183A69DC for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.159) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.99.4; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:21:23 -0700 Received: from tk5ex14mbxc105.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.177]) by TK5EX14MLTC104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.159]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:21:23 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: SM Thread-Topic: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? Thread-Index: AQHJ+ILXgLffd0Seyk2qP20iynTVF5Bd27TAgAB+4gD//42i4IAAtKkhgAC2zXaAADCKMoAACkXwgAAsEQaAAAW50A== Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:21:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A485EEF.9010109@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <74FF47A31A141F3D171B64DF@PST.JCK.COM> <6.2.5.6.2.20090629220509.042672c0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20090630105355.04290ec8@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20090630141058.041fa280@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20090630141058.041fa280@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] Unicode / ASCII fallback mappings? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:21:22 -0000 QXBwYXJlbnRseSB3ZSB3ZXJlIHNheWluZyB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aGluZyA6KQ0KDQo+IElmIHRoZSB1 c2VyIGlzIG5vdCBmYW1pbGlhciB3aXRoIGVtYWlsLCB3ZSBoYXZlIHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgaG93 IHRvDQo+IGV4cGxhaW4gYWx0LWFkZHJlc3MgdG8gdGhlbS4gIE5vdGUgdGhhdCBjdXJyZW50IGFs aWFzZXMgYXJlIGZhbWlsaWFyDQo+IHRvIHVzIGFzIHdlIGtub3cgdGhlIGNoYXJhY3RlcnMuDQoN CkkgYXNzdW1lIElTUHMgd2lsbCBmaW5kIHNvbWUgbmljZSB3YXkgb2YgZXhwbGFpbmluZyB5b3Vy ICJDaGluZXNlIiBhZGRyZXNzIGFuZCB5b3VyICJQaW55aW4iIGFkZHJlc3MgdGhhdCBtYXkgc3Rp bGwgYmUgbmVlZGVkIGZvciBvbGRlciBzeXN0ZW1zLiAgKFByZXN1bWFibHkgdGhlIHRlcm1pbm9s b2d5IHdpbGwgY2hhbmdlIGluIGRpZmZlcmVudCBtYXJrZXRzLikNCg0KPiBJdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBj b250YW1pbmF0ZSB0aGUgRUFJIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25zLiAgTXkgYXJndW1lbnQgd2FzIHRvDQo+ IGF2b2lkIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBuZXcgRUFJIGFkZHJlc3MgYXMgYW4gYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgYWRkcmVz cy4NCg0KU29ycnkgSSB3YXNuJ3QgY2xlYXIsIHllcyB0aGF0J2QgYmUgYmFkLg0KDQotU2hhd24N Cg0K