From yaojk@cnnic.cn Mon Nov 9 02:02:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9AA83A6985 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 02:02:55 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YeP0bZLcJ7yf for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 02:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 536EB3A693E for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 02:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (eyou send program); Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:03:21 +0800 Message-ID: <457761001.00810@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO whatisfuture) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:03:21 +0800 Message-ID: <000201ca6123$dc96a410$01125d85@whatisfuture> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "EAI WG" Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:00:31 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Subject: [EAI] Fw: apply to be an item of EAI WG X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:02:55 -0000 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCg0KICAgICBJIGdvdCB0aGUgYXBwcm92YWwgZnJvbSB0aGUgY28tY2hhaXJz IHRvIHNlbmQgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBtZXNzYWdlIHRvIHRoZSBsaXN0Og0KDQogICAgIE9yaWdp bmFsbHksIEkgaG9wZSB0aGF0IHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgY2FuIGJlIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBpbiB0aGUg SGlyb3NoaW1hIG1lZXRpbmcuDQpVbmZvcnR1bmF0ZWx5LCB3ZSBoYXZlIG5vIG1lZXRpbmcgdGhp cyB0aW1lLg0KVGhlIGRvd25ncmFkZSBpc3N1ZXMgYXJlIHZlcnkgaW1wb3J0YW50IHRvIHVzLCB3 aGljaCBtYXkgaW1wYWN0IG91ciBkaXJlY3Rpb24gb2YgcmUtY2hhcnRlci4NClRoaXMgZHJhZnQg cHJvdmlkZXMgc29tZSBhbmFseXNpcyBhYm91dCBkb3duZ3JhZGUgdGVzdGluZywgd2hpY2ggd2ls bCBoZWxwIHVzIGRlcGxveSB0aGUgRUFJDQogc3lzdGVtIGFuZCB0aGUgcmUtY2hhcnRlciB3b3Jr IG9mIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGluIHRoZSBuZWFyIGZ1dHVyZS4NCkpvaG4gbWF5IHN0ZXAg aW4gYXMgdGhlIGNvLWF1dGhvciBvZiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGFuZCBkbyBzb21lIHVwZGF0aW5ncyB0 byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlmIGhlIGNhbiBmaW5kIHNvbWUgdGltZSB0byBkbyBpdC4NCkkgaG9wZSAg dGhpcyBkcmFmdCB0byBiZSBhbiBXRyBpdGVtIGFuZCByZWZpbmUgaXQuDQoNCmFueSBjb21tZW50 cyBhYm91dCB0aGlzIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIG9mIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYXMgdGhlIFdHIGl0ZW0/DQoN CnRoYW5rcyBhIGxvdC4NCg0KWWFvIEppYW5rYW5nDQpDTk5JQw0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tIE9y aWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQpGcm9tOiA8SW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnPg0K VG86IDxpLWQtYW5ub3VuY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIE9jdG9iZXIgMTksIDIw MDkgNTozMCBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogSS1EIEFjdGlvbjpkcmFmdC15YW8tZWFpLWRvd25ncmFkZS10 ZXN0cy1hbmFseXNpcy0wMC50eHQgDQoNCg0KPkEgTmV3IEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IGlzIGF2YWls YWJsZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBvbi1saW5lIEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBkaXJlY3Rvcmllcy4NCj4gDQo+ IFRpdGxlICAgICAgICAgICA6IEVBSSBkb3duZ3JhZGluZyB0ZXN0cyBhbmQgYW5hbHlzaXMNCj4g QXV0aG9yKHMpICAgICAgIDogSi4gWWFvLCBldCBhbC4NCj4gRmlsZW5hbWUgICAgICAgIDogZHJh ZnQteWFvLWVhaS1kb3duZ3JhZGUtdGVzdHMtYW5hbHlzaXMtMDAudHh0DQo+IFBhZ2VzICAgICAg ICAgICA6IDExDQo+IERhdGUgICAgICAgICAgICA6IDIwMDktMTAtMTkNCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBwcm90 b2NvbHMgc3BlY2lmaWVkIGluIGN1cnJlbnQgRUFJIGRvY3VtZW50cyBzdWNoIGFzIFJGQzUzMzUs DQo+IFJGQzUzMzYgYW5kIFJGQzU1MDQgYXJlIGluIGV4cGVyaW1lbnRhbCBjYXRlZ29yeS4gIE1h bnkgb3JnYW5pemF0aW9ucw0KPiBoYXZlIGltcGxlbWVudGVkIGFuZCB0ZXN0ZWQgdGhlIGludGVy bmF0aW9uYWxpemVkIGVtYWlsIHN5c3RlbXMuDQo+IFJlY2VudGx5LCBtYW55IGRpc2N1c3Npb25z IGZvY3VzIG9uIHRoZSBpc3N1ZXMgb2YgZG93bmdyYWRpbmcNCj4gaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gYW5k IHRlc3RpbmcuICBUaGlzIG1lbW8gcHJvdmlkZXMgc29tZSBhbmFseXNpcyBpbg0KPiBkZXB0aCBh Ym91dCBkb3duZ3JhZGUgdGVzdGluZywgd2hpY2ggd2lsbCBoZWxwIHVzIGRlcGxveSB0aGUgRUFJ DQo+IHN5c3RlbSBhbmQgdGhlIHJlLWNoYXJ0ZXIgd29yayBvZiB0aGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBp biB0aGUgbmVhcg0KPiBmdXR1cmUuDQo+IA0KPiBBIFVSTCBmb3IgdGhpcyBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFm dCBpczoNCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvZHJhZnQteWFvLWVh aS1kb3duZ3JhZGUtdGVzdHMtYW5hbHlzaXMtMDAudHh0DQo+IA0KPiBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdHMg YXJlIGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6DQo+IGZ0cDovL2Z0cC5pZXRm Lm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvDQo+IA0KPiBCZWxvdyBpcyB0aGUgZGF0YSB3aGljaCB3aWxs IGVuYWJsZSBhIE1JTUUgY29tcGxpYW50IG1haWwgcmVhZGVyDQo+IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIHRv IGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgcmV0cmlldmUgdGhlIEFTQ0lJIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgdGhlDQo+IEludGVy bmV0LURyYWZ0Lg0KPg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCg0KPiBfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJLUQtQW5ub3VuY2Ug bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IEktRC1Bbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ktZC1hbm5vdW5jZQ0KPiBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBkaXJl Y3RvcmllczogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9zaGFkb3cuaHRtbA0KPiBvciBmdHA6Ly9mdHAu aWV0Zi5vcmcvaWV0Zi8xc2hhZG93LXNpdGVzLnR4dA0KPg== From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Mon Nov 9 06:12:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C536228C13A for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:12:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s8zZTaMl4mcG for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f204.google.com (mail-pz0-f204.google.com [209.85.222.204]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A249D28C11E for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by pzk42 with SMTP id 42so2504263pzk.31 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:12:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TijJ8OgPhLXLzAisuaF+Ge0fhmhhkoxOAr47vwgjmBQ=; b=Y+nXVjTpPS10Kz02cz35kAOwedgoefHevpBEjINbIM4fVkqFeq/QdEpM6TPeC08ezU pQRJlqjTVzFV2xvT9YfOwu1ukGkgKX1JI4sVirGqfuamdTfjmMANkDBLT2evqkfiD7th JeS+ZvEiromzOCpiSZufjixd3wwbY4oNP8084= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=erUiGjFoO9+P4VMYDYNHPcOj0OrWekUHAIZ0dIP6yeaZNuhXpe3lIrTqnVmvGQvxrB q8woh5fG3g9ygnMTxck70JQjSa1UzYUj2FBSzi9S4Ftivzg6koHxxKdZHsUPAU8YC10K aD9i8OwbzVcLsPWGJt9Yu/V7h2o5jAcY9Uifc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.225.17 with SMTP id x17mr388283rvg.34.1257775972516; Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:12:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <457761001.00810@cnnic.cn> References: <457761001.00810@cnnic.cn> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: <6c9fcc2a0911090612td5f55aeq4219e9e21d11b218@mail.gmail.com> From: Barry Leiba To: YAO Jiankang Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: EAI WG Subject: Re: [EAI] Fw: apply to be an item of EAI WG X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: barryleiba@computer.org List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:12:29 -0000 > The downgrade issues are very important to us, which may impact our direc= tion of re-charter. > This draft provides some analysis about downgrade testing, which will hel= p us deploy the EAI > system and the re-charter work of the working group in the near future. > John may step in as the co-author of this draft and do some updatings to = this draft if he can > find some time to do it. > I hope =A0this draft to be an WG item and refine it. >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yao-eai-downgrade-tests-analys= is-00.txt I see this as a fine document, useful as a working draft as we proceed with the rechartering and moving the protocols from experimental to standards track. But I don't see it as ever being published as an RFC, even as Informational. It doesn't seem to me that these experiments and their results need to be preserved forever, but only used (and revised and refined) as we're doing our work. As such, I don't see the need to adopt it as a working-group document, though I certainly have no objection to doing that if consensus is for it. I think it can remain an individual submission, and then be left to expire when it's no longer needed. Barry From yaojk@cnnic.cn Mon Nov 9 06:35:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25913A685E for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:35:00 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.648 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.648 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.691, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qCcRxSVxw52M for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 82B623A67A5 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:34:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (eyou send program); Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:35:27 +0800 Message-ID: <457777327.17867@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO whatisfuture) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:35:27 +0800 Message-ID: <01bb01ca6149$df156a70$4ec25d85@whatisfuture> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: References: <457761001.00810@cnnic.cn> <457775977.20046@cnnic.cn> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:35:18 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Cc: EAI WG Subject: Re: [EAI] Fw: apply to be an item of EAI WG X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:35:00 -0000 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkJhcnJ5IExlaWJhIiA8YmFy cnlsZWliYS5tYWlsaW5nLmxpc3RzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NClRvOiAiWUFPIEppYW5rYW5nIiA8eWFv amtAY25uaWMuY24+DQpDYzogIkVBSSBXRyIgPGltYUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwg Tm92ZW1iZXIgMDksIDIwMDkgMTA6MTIgUE0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbRUFJXSBGdzogYXBwbHkg dG8gYmUgYW4gaXRlbSBvZiBFQUkgV0cNCg0KDQpUaGUgZG93bmdyYWRlIGlzc3VlcyBhcmUgdmVy eSBpbXBvcnRhbnQgdG8gdXMsIHdoaWNoIG1heSBpbXBhY3Qgb3VyIGRpcmVjdGlvbiBvZiByZS1j aGFydGVyLg0KLj4gPiAgVGhpcyBkcmFmdCBwcm92aWRlcyBzb21lIGFuYWx5c2lzIGFib3V0IGRv d25ncmFkZSB0ZXN0aW5nLCB3aGljaCB3aWxsIGhlbHAgdXMgZGVwbG95IHRoZSBFQUkNCj4gPiBz eXN0ZW0gYW5kIHRoZSByZS1jaGFydGVyIHdvcmsgb2YgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgaW4gdGhl IG5lYXIgZnV0dXJlLg0KPiA+IEpvaG4gbWF5IHN0ZXAgaW4gYXMgdGhlIGNvLWF1dGhvciBvZiB0 aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGFuZCBkbyBzb21lIHVwZGF0aW5ncyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlmIGhlIGNhbg0K PiA+IGZpbmQgc29tZSB0aW1lIHRvIGRvIGl0Lg0KPiA+IEkgaG9wZSB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IHRvIGJl IGFuIFdHIGl0ZW0gYW5kIHJlZmluZSBpdC4NCj4+DQo+PiBBIFVSTCBmb3IgdGhpcyBJbnRlcm5l dC1EcmFmdCBpczoNCj4+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0 LXlhby1lYWktZG93bmdyYWRlLXRlc3RzLWFuYWx5c2lzLTAwLnR4dA0KDQo+IEkgc2VlIHRoaXMg YXMgYSBmaW5lIGRvY3VtZW50LCB1c2VmdWwgYXMgYSB3b3JraW5nIGRyYWZ0IGFzIHdlIHByb2Nl ZWQNCj4gd2l0aCB0aGUgcmVjaGFydGVyaW5nIGFuZCBtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHByb3RvY29scyBmcm9t IGV4cGVyaW1lbnRhbCB0bw0KPiBzdGFuZGFyZHMgdHJhY2suICANCg0KKzEsIHRoYW5rcy4NCg0K PkJ1dCBJIGRvbid0IHNlZSBpdCBhcyBldmVyIGJlaW5nIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBhcyBhbg0KPiBSRkMs IGV2ZW4gYXMgSW5mb3JtYXRpb25hbC4gIEl0IGRvZXNuJ3Qgc2VlbSB0byBtZSB0aGF0IHRoZXNl DQo+IGV4cGVyaW1lbnRzIGFuZCB0aGVpciByZXN1bHRzIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgcHJlc2VydmVkIGZv cmV2ZXIsIGJ1dCBvbmx5DQo+IHVzZWQgKGFuZCByZXZpc2VkIGFuZCByZWZpbmVkKSBhcyB3ZSdy ZSBkb2luZyBvdXIgd29yay4NCg0KdGhlIHVzZWZ1bG5lc3MgaXMgdGhhdCB3ZSBjYW4gdHJhY2sg d2h5IHdlIG1vdmUgdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIHRyYWNrIHRvIHRoaXMgZGlyZWN0aW9uIG9yIHRoYXQg ZGlyZWN0aW9uLg0KYWZ0ZXIgbWFueSB5ZWFycywgc29tZSB1c2VycyBtYXkgYXNrIHN1Y2ggcXVl c3Rpb25zLg0KU28gSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiByZmMgaXMgYSBnb29kIGNh dGVnb3J5IGZvciBrZWVwaW5nIHRoaXMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uDQoNCj4gQXMgc3VjaCwgSSBkb24n dCBzZWUgdGhlIG5lZWQgdG8gYWRvcHQgaXQgYXMgYSB3b3JraW5nLWdyb3VwIGRvY3VtZW50LA0K PiB0aG91Z2ggSSBjZXJ0YWlubHkgaGF2ZSBubyBvYmplY3Rpb24gdG8gZG9pbmcgdGhhdCBpZiBj b25zZW5zdXMgaXMgZm9yDQo+IGl0LiAgSSB0aGluayBpdCBjYW4gcmVtYWluIGFuIGluZGl2aWR1 YWwgc3VibWlzc2lvbiwgYW5kIHRoZW4gYmUgbGVmdA0KPiB0byBleHBpcmUgd2hlbiBpdCdzIG5v IGxvbmdlciBuZWVkZWQuDQoNCj4gQmFycnk= From jyee@ca.afilias.info Wed Nov 11 12:34:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D623A6879 for ; 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Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:34:59 +0000 From: Joseph Yee To: YAO Jiankang In-Reply-To: <457761001.00810@cnnic.cn> X-Priority: 3 References: <457761001.00810@cnnic.cn> Message-Id: <6A91173C-1B45-47F2-B6FB-24415A59D45B@ca.afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:34:58 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: EAI WG Subject: Re: [EAI] Fw: apply to be an item of EAI WG X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:34:34 -0000 All, Would it be better if it moved to be part of the downgrade doc or framework doc? These are great discussions and findings, but downgrade-doc and framework-doc are better place to explain the downgrade design approach, IMHO. If we expand the doc with more thorough inter-op test results, experience of what we went thru on downgrade delivery, then I personally think we will have a great INFO RFC about EAI in general. best Joseph On 9-Nov-09, at 5:00 AM, YAO Jiankang wrote: > Dear all, > > > I got the approval from the co-chairs to send the following > message to the list: > > Originally, I hope that this document can be discussed in the > Hiroshima meeting. > Unfortunately, we have no meeting this time. > The downgrade issues are very important to us, which may impact our > direction of re-charter. > This draft provides some analysis about downgrade testing, which > will help us deploy the EAI > system and the re-charter work of the working group in the near > future. > John may step in as the co-author of this draft and do some > updatings to this draft if he can find some time to do it. > I hope this draft to be an WG item and refine it. > > any comments about this application of this draft as the WG item? > > thanks a lot. > > Yao Jiankang > CNNIC > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:30 PM > Subject: I-D Action:draft-yao-eai-downgrade-tests-analysis-00.txt > > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> Title : EAI downgrading tests and analysis >> Author(s) : J. Yao, et al. >> Filename : draft-yao-eai-downgrade-tests-analysis-00.txt >> Pages : 11 >> Date : 2009-10-19 >> >> The protocols specified in current EAI documents such as RFC5335, >> RFC5336 and RFC5504 are in experimental category. Many organizations >> have implemented and tested the internationalized email systems. >> Recently, many discussions focus on the issues of downgrading >> implementation and testing. This memo provides some analysis in >> depth about downgrade testing, which will help us deploy the EAI >> system and the re-charter work of the working group in the near >> future. >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yao-eai-downgrade-tests-analysis-00.txt >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Thu Nov 12 13:06:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9053A68FB for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:06:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.068 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=2.077] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4HP8ZfFExTfh for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A263A684A for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.7.153) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:07:21 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC139.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.7.231]) by TK5EX14HUBC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.7.153]) with mapi; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:07:18 -0800 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: BIDI & EAI Thread-Index: Acpj3Bx6D9mYZjJhTc6Oq7YeLvU5fw== Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:07:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E14011F8737B524BB564B05FF748464A04450FBFTK5EX14MBXC139r_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [EAI] BIDI & EAI X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:06:54 -0000 --_000_E14011F8737B524BB564B05FF748464A04450FBFTK5EX14MBXC139r_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has there been any discussion on BIDI rendering of EAI addresses? Seems th= at there're probably a few scenarios to think about. - Shawn ???? ????? http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnste --_000_E14011F8737B524BB564B05FF748464A04450FBFTK5EX14MBXC139r_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has there been a= ny discussion on BIDI rendering of EAI addresses?=A0 Seems that there’= ;re probably a few scenarios to think about.

- Shawn

ɽ= 14; =

http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnste

= --_000_E14011F8737B524BB564B05FF748464A04450FBFTK5EX14MBXC139r_-- From lee@cnnic.cn Thu Nov 12 16:46:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B427A28C0D8 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:46:41 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: <5y+Zki-xOX-G> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.521 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5y+Zki-xOX-G for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E3DA3A6961 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:46:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (eyou send program); Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:47:07 +0800 Message-ID: <458073227.21255@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: lee@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO [218.241.111.44]) (218.241.111.44) by 159.226.7.146 with SMTP; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:47:07 +0800 Message-ID: <4AFCAC8D.5070904@cnnic.cn> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:47:09 +0800 From: Xiaodong Lee User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shawn Steele References: <458060048.11410@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: <458060048.11410@cnnic.cn> Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] BIDI & EAI X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:46:41 -0000 hi,

BIDI and Variant problem should be solved in the future, now, we focus on the core protocol.

If you have suggestions on that, you might submit the individual draft to this list.

Regards,
Xiaodong

Shawn Steele wrote:

Has there been any discussion on BIDI rendering of EAI addresses? Seems that there��re probably a few scenarios to think about.

- Shawn

 

http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnste
_______________________________________________
IMA mailing list
IMA@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
  

From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Thu Nov 12 16:50:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7923A68BF for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:50:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.924 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.924 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.003, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=2.077] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TZamuxu5qXgT for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F5B3A67F0 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.180) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:50:51 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC139.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.7.231]) by TK5EX14MLTC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.180]) with mapi; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:50:32 -0800 From: Shawn Steele To: Xiaodong Lee Thread-Topic: [EAI] BIDI & EAI Thread-Index: AQHKY/rfY+ExNeceKkadfFOKE4I6KZEzLm2A Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:50:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <458060048.11410@cnnic.cn> <4AFCAC8D.5070904@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: <4AFCAC8D.5070904@cnnic.cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E14011F8737B524BB564B05FF748464A044513C9TK5EX14MBXC139r_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] BIDI & EAI X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4125E3A67CF for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:48:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M3Lkzrm3O5yM for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E364F3A68F5 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.158]) by scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id nAD8ml33010728 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:48:47 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 567a_5b3ccaac_d031_11de_b1c0_001d096c566a; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:48:47 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:48944) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:45:13 +0900 Message-ID: <4AFD1D5A.5050808@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:48:26 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shawn Steele References: <458060048.11410@cnnic.cn> <4AFCAC8D.5070904@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] BIDI & EAI X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:48:29 -0000 Hello Shawn, Please feel free to participate in the discussions in the IRI (and IDN) lists and bring in your bidi-specific concerns. Ideally, we should have a single story about how to display bidi identifiers, even if the story isn't very good because the problem is extremely hard. Regards, Martin. On 2009/11/13 9:50, Shawn Steele wrote: > That seems reasonable. I’m just thinking there’s been some discussion of BIDI in the IDN and IRI lists, so maybe EAI should be considered as well in those talks ☺ > > -Shawn > > From: Xiaodong Lee [mailto:lee@cnnic.cn] > Sent: tlherSjaj, nov'mber 12, DIS 2009 tera' 16:47 > To: Shawn Steele > Cc: ima@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [EAI] BIDI& EAI > > hi, > > BIDI and Variant problem should be solved in the future, now, we focus on the core protocol. > > If you have suggestions on that, you might submit the individual draft to this list. > > Regards, > Xiaodong > > Shawn Steele wrote: > Has there been any discussion on BIDI rendering of EAI addresses? Seems that there’re probably a few scenarios to think about. > > - Shawn > >   > http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnste > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IMA mailing list > > IMA@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Fri Nov 13 00:55:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445763A69BA for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:55:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.404 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.404 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.194, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CpNNf4k16YGX for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A7603A6935 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.159]) by scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id nAD8tu70021822 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:55:56 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 5076_5b6495e0_d032_11de_b78f_001d096c5782; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:55:56 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:34294) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:52:23 +0900 Message-ID: <4AFD1F08.2090300@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:55:36 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:14:09 -0800 Subject: [EAI] Slides of IAB presentation on Protocol I18N at IETF Technical Plenary X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:55:29 -0000 [I'm using bcc because I'm sending this to various lists that I think should be interested.] For those who didn't attended yesterday's IETF Technical Plenary (or like me, listened to it on the audio feed), here is a link to the slides from the IAB presentation on Protocol Internationalization and Character Encoding: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/plenaryt-1.pdf Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Fri Nov 20 10:08:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D87553A68EF for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:08:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rCZ39vfisbsF for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:08:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FA73A6837 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.2.161] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:08:53 +0000 Message-ID: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:08:17 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "ima@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [EAI] EAI WG status and rechartering X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:08:58 -0000 Greetings, Here is what I think remains to be done under the current WG charter: 1). draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8 I am awaiting for updated versions of these documents before getting them approved. 2). The following document is the last deliverable needed before rechartering (I think): draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist Currently it is expired. Reissuing the document and sending it to WGLC (if ready), would be nice. While I am waiting for the 3 documents, I think the WG can start discussion about whether the group should shut down or recharter. In case there is consensus to recharter, I would like to see if updated charter text can be agreed on. If the WG has enough energy to recharter, I would also like to ask the WG to take mailto: URI scheme update (draft-duerst-mailto-bis) as an additional deliverable. Note that I also would be looking for at least 1 new WG chair. If you want to volunteer yourself or somebody else, please send me an email message with details directly. Best Regards, Alexey, Apps AD. From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Sat Nov 21 10:50:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025863A68F7 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:50:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Js0GqXcQF8o0 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384613A67D2 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.174) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:50:21 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC139.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.7.231]) by TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.174]) with mapi; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:49:58 -0800 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IMEAI WG status and rechartering (Alexey Melnikov) Thread-Index: AQHKatts7UrIvbKCNkyCjBeDx73t0w== Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:48:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] IMEAI WG status and rechartering (Alexey Melnikov) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:50:03 -0000 I don't think eai-downgraded display is interesting. It is intended for th= e original downgrade mechanism, which was proven not to work. -Shawn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:08:17 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov Subject: [EAI] EAI WG status and rechartering To: "ima@ietf.org" Message-ID: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed Greetings, Here is what I think remains to be done under the current WG charter: 1). draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8 I am awaiting for updated versions of these documents before getting them approved. 2). The following document is the last deliverable needed before rechartering (I think): draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist Currently it is expired. Reissuing the document and sending it to WGLC (if ready), would be nice. While I am waiting for the 3 documents, I think the WG can start discussion about whether the group should shut down or recharter. In case there is consensus to recharter, I would like to see if updated charter text can be agreed on. If the WG has enough energy to recharter, I would also like to ask the WG to take mailto: URI scheme update (draft-duerst-mailto-bis) as an additional deliverable. Note that I also would be looking for at least 1 new WG chair. If you want to volunteer yourself or somebody else, please send me an email message with details directly. Best Regards, Alexey, Apps AD.= From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Mon Nov 23 01:34:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122B93A68A5 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:34:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.442 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.442 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.651, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YK6OiVZrXAVT for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA513A6A26 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.159]) by scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id nAN9YJfk025817 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:19 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 457c_5fc3779e_d813_11de_a7f8_001d096c5782; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:19 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:33053) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:30:42 +0900 Message-ID: <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:07 +0900 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexey Melnikov References: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Larry Masinter Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI WG status and rechartering X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:34:36 -0000 Hello Alexey, On 2009/11/21 3:08, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > If the WG has enough energy to recharter, I would also like to ask the > WG to take mailto: URI scheme update (draft-duerst-mailto-bis) as an > additional deliverable. I'm not sure this makes sense, for two reasons: - While draft-duerst-mailto-bis is very much about internationalization (it allows non-ASCII characters in things such as Subject and body, which the current RFC doesn't), it isn't actually about EAI - The draft has already been out for quite a long time, it doesn't seem to make sense to wait for other EAI drafts to complete and then the WG to recharter to move on. That said, it would be possible (I'd even say appropriate) for a rechartered WG to take up the job of either further updating what might by that time be the RFC resulting from draft-duerst-mailto-bis (essentially continuing what was http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailto-01), or of creating a new URI/IRI scheme for EAI mail addresses. [I'd be glad to volunteer as an editor in either case.] Also, it's never too late for anybody in this WG to have a look at draft-duerst-mailto-bis (currently at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-mailto-bis-07). Any kinds of reviews are appropriate, but with respect to WG matters, I'd want in particular to point out the following two items (not EAI per se, but definitely related) in Section 2, "Syntax of a 'mailto' URI": 4. Percent-encoding can be used in the part of an , in order to denote an internationalized domain name. The considerations for in [STD66] apply. In particular, non-ASCII characters MUST first be encoded according to UTF-8 [STD63], and then each octet of the corresponding UTF-8 sequence MUST be percent-encoded to be represented as URI characters. URI producing applications MUST NOT use percent-encoding in domain names unless it is used to represent a UTF-8 character sequence. When the internationalized domain name is used to compose a message, the name MUST be transformed to the IDNA encoding where appropriate [RFC3490]. URI producers SHOULD provide these domain names in the IDNA encoding, rather than percent-encoded, if they wish to maximize interoperability with legacy 'mailto' URI interpreters. 5. Percent-encoding of non-ASCII octets in the of an is reserved for the internationalization of the . Non-ASCII characters MUST first be encoded according to UTF-8 [STD63], and then each octet of the corresponding UTF-8 sequence MUST be percent-encoded to be represented as URI characters. Any other percent-encoding of non-ASCII characters is prohibited. When a containing non-ASCII characters will be used to compose a message, the MUST be transformed to conform to whatever encoding may be defined in a future specification for the internationalization of email addresses. Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. D�rst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Mon Nov 23 05:02:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67603A68AB for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:02:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.272 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.272 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.273, BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wsp3IRmdlF7o for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:02:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-3.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-3.gradwell.net [79.135.125.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5323A67FD for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [80.175.135.89] ([80.175.135.89] helo=clerew.man.ac.uk country=GB ident=postmaster*pop3*clerew#man^ac^uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-3.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.290) id 4b0a87d8.45d4.125 for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:02:16 +0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from clerew.man.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id nAND2DOP008240 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:02:16 GMT Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:02:13 -0000 To: IMA From: "Charles Lindsey" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.25 (SunOS) Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI WG status and rechartering X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:02:28 -0000 On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:08:17 -0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > While I am waiting for the 3 documents, I think the WG can start > discussion about whether the group should shut down or recharter. In > case there is consensus to recharter, I would like to see if updated > charter text can be agreed on. If we are going to recharter, then an additional piece of work could be to do EAI for Netnews. This would be mostly straightforward, since the distrubution channels for Netnews (NNTP and UUCP) are already 8-bit clean, and have been so for years, and so downgrading would only be needed when netnews was gatewayed to an email list. So the only additional work would be to define an EAI extension for the Newsgroups header, enabling newsgroups with non-ASCII names to be formed. The USEFOR WG did much work on that a few years back, and tests indicated that such newsgroups would indeed progagate fine (a non-ascii group under dk.* was created for the purpose). But the work was shelved pending completion of other work. This job is nominally still on the agenda for the USEFOR WG, but that group has struggled to get its main two drafts out of the door (to be published imminently as RFC5536/7), and it is unlikely to survive further. So moving that item to this group would make sense. I could probably persuade a few News experts to come here to finish it off, and would be happy to produce a draft based on what USEFOR did earlier. -- Charles�H.�Lindsey�---------At�Home,�doing�my�own�thing------------------------ Tel:�+44�161�436�6131� ��Web:�http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email:�chl@clerew.man.ac.uk��Snail:�5�Clerewood�Ave,�CHEADLE,�SK8�3JU,�U.K. PGP:�2C15F1A9��Fingerprint:�73�6D�C2�51�93�A0�01�E7�65�E8�64�7E�14�A4�AB�A5 From jyee@ca.afilias.info Thu Nov 26 08:48:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59A33A68D0 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:48:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.965 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UO5RelZlUCtb for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:48:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77B33A686E for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NDhVn-0008IZ-5c; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:48:07 +0000 Received: from tor-gateway.afilias.info ([199.15.87.4] helo=jyee-lt.tor.afilias-int.info) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NDhVn-0004Up-4x; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:48:07 +0000 From: Joseph Yee To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_J._D=FCrst?= In-Reply-To: <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:48:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Larry Masinter Subject: [EAI] (Re: EAI WG status and rechartering) -- mailto bis X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:48:18 -0000 Hi Martin, I read the latest mailto-bis (07). Section 2.4 and 2.5 are great. In the paragraph right after section 2.5, it mentions the pct-encoding =20= for and . My own interpretation had it sounds like =20= allowing to be pct-encoded. Since current and proposed =20 message header definition do not allow non ASCII characters, wouldn't =20= that be easier to limit to ASCII only? That would make =20 be case insensitive easier to manage too. I noticed that =20 section 4 would stop non ASCII in , but wonder if it's good to =20= restrict it in mailto IRI. Regards, Joseph On 23-Nov-09, at 4:34 AM, Martin J. D=FCrst wrote: > Hello Alexey, > > > On 2009/11/21 3:08, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> If the WG has enough energy to recharter, I would also like to ask =20= >> the >> WG to take mailto: URI scheme update (draft-duerst-mailto-bis) as an >> additional deliverable. > > I'm not sure this makes sense, for two reasons: > > - While draft-duerst-mailto-bis is very much about =20 > internationalization > (it allows non-ASCII characters in things such as Subject and body, > which the current RFC doesn't), it isn't actually about EAI > > - The draft has already been out for quite a long time, it doesn't =20 > seem > to make sense to wait for other EAI drafts to complete and then the > WG to recharter to move on. > > That said, it would be possible (I'd even say appropriate) for a =20 > rechartered WG to take up the job of either further updating what =20 > might by that time be the RFC resulting from draft-duerst-mailto-bis =20= > (essentially continuing what was = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailto-01)=20 > , or of creating a new URI/IRI scheme for EAI mail addresses. [I'd =20 > be glad to volunteer as an editor in either case.] > > Also, it's never too late for anybody in this WG to have a look at =20 > draft-duerst-mailto-bis (currently at = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-mailto-bis-07)=20 > . Any kinds of reviews are appropriate, but with respect to WG =20 > matters, I'd want in particular to point out the following two items =20= > (not EAI per se, but definitely related) in Section 2, "Syntax of a =20= > 'mailto' URI": > > 4. Percent-encoding can be used in the part of an spec>, in order to denote an internationalized domain name. The > considerations for in [STD66] apply. In particular, > non-ASCII characters MUST first be encoded according to UTF-8 > [STD63], and then each octet of the corresponding UTF-8 sequence > MUST be percent-encoded to be represented as URI characters. =20= > URI > producing applications MUST NOT use percent-encoding in domain > names unless it is used to represent a UTF-8 character sequence. > When the internationalized domain name is used to compose a > message, the name MUST be transformed to the IDNA encoding where > appropriate [RFC3490]. URI producers SHOULD provide these =20 > domain > names in the IDNA encoding, rather than percent-encoded, if they > wish to maximize interoperability with legacy 'mailto' URI > interpreters. > > 5. Percent-encoding of non-ASCII octets in the of an > is reserved for the internationalization of the > . Non-ASCII characters MUST first be encoded > according to UTF-8 [STD63], and then each octet of the > corresponding UTF-8 sequence MUST be percent-encoded to be > represented as URI characters. Any other percent-encoding of > non-ASCII characters is prohibited. When a > containing non-ASCII characters will be used to compose a > message, the MUST be transformed to conform to > whatever encoding may be defined in a future specification for > the internationalization of email addresses. > > > Regards, Martin. > > --=20 > #-# Martin J. D=FCrst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University > #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Sat Nov 28 06:11:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0DD3A6943 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:11:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.101, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dv21maveqbO7 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:11:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D0823A6933 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [92.40.30.65] (92.40.30.65.sub.mbb.three.co.uk [92.40.30.65]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:11:45 +0000 Message-ID: <4B112F87.8040000@isode.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:11:19 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= References: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Larry Masinter Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI WG status and rechartering X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:11:56 -0000 Martin J. D=FCrst wrote: > Hello Alexey, > > On 2009/11/21 3:08, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> If the WG has enough energy to recharter, I would also like to ask the >> WG to take mailto: URI scheme update (draft-duerst-mailto-bis) as an >> additional deliverable. > > I'm not sure this makes sense, for two reasons: > > - While draft-duerst-mailto-bis is very much about internationalization > (it allows non-ASCII characters in things such as Subject and body, > which the current RFC doesn't), it isn't actually about EAI > > - The draft has already been out for quite a long time, it doesn't seem > to make sense to wait for other EAI drafts to complete and then the > WG to recharter to move on. I agree with both statements. > That said, it would be possible (I'd even say appropriate) for a=20 > rechartered WG to take up the job of either further updating what=20 > might by that time be the RFC resulting from draft-duerst-mailto-bis=20 > (essentially continuing what was=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailto-01), or of creating a=20 > new URI/IRI scheme for EAI mail addresses. [I'd be glad to volunteer=20 > as an editor in either case.] Yes, I mostly meant this work item. I think that draft-duerst-mailto-bis is essentially ready for IETF LC.=20 If no major objections are raised during IETF LC, then it can be=20 published as an RFC. However if there are some objections, the document=20 might require a new or existing WG to help build/judge consensus. From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Sat Nov 28 09:05:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D333A6784 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:05:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZUdPSWg-uGcP for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DE703A68C9 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [92.40.30.65] (92.40.30.65.sub.mbb.three.co.uk [92.40.30.65]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:04:59 +0000 Message-ID: <4B11581B.6020308@isode.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:04:27 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: [EAI] AD review of draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-04.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:05:10 -0000 I think the document is very close to being ready for publication as an Experimental RFC. Below are some comments: 2. Introduction In most cases, the mailing list agent redistributes a received message to its subscribers as a new message, that is, conceptually it uses message submission [submit] This is not listed as a reference. I assume it should be Informative. (as did the sender of the original message). The exception, where the mailing list is not a separate agent that receives and redistributes messages in separate transactions, but is instead an expansion step within an SMTP transaction where one local address expands to multiple local or non-local addresses, is out of scope for this document. [...] There are considerations for internationalized email addresses in the envelope as well as "in" missing here? header fields of redistributed messages. In particular, an internationalized message cannot be downgraded unless envelope addresses are in ASCII (which includes use of ALT-ADDRESS). I would suggest rewording this to make it clear that either envelope addresses are in ASCII, or ALT-ADDRESSes for them are available. 3. Scenarios Involving Mailing Lists The submission server then decides which recipients to include in whi ch transaction.) nit: which 4. Capabilities and Requirements 1. If the list uses a UTF8 submission or return-path address, it SHOULD specify an alt-address for it. Clearly, it needs to sit behind a UTF8SMTP-enabled final-delivery SMTP server and delivery agent. I think this needs an Informative reference to RFC 5336. Likewise, if a list uses a UTF8 return-path address, then its MSA needs I recommend an Informative reference to RFC 5598 here. to support UTF8SMTP. 5. List Header Fields Even without these header fields being extended to support UTF8, some special provisions may be helpful when downgrading. In particular, when a List-* header contains a UTF8 mailto (even encoded in ASCII) followed by an ASCII mailto, it may be advisable to not only copy and preserve the original header as usual, but also to edit the header to remove the UTF8 address. Otherwise, a non-UTF8-aware client might run into trouble if the decoded mailto results in a non-ASCII address. [[[EDITOR'S NOTE: This needs to be vetted by the eai list.]]] I think this is sensible. But note that currently mailto-bis doesn't directly allow UTF-8 in LHS of addresses. This will be dealt with when the WG recharters (hopefully). The List-ID header filed uniquely identifies a list. The intent is that the value of this header remain constant, even if the machine or system used to operate and host the list changes. This header field is often used in various filters and tests, such as client-side filters, Sieve filters, and so forth. Because of this, great care should be taken, as a non-ASCII value might not match when encoded into ASCII. It is generally desirable that this header field contain something meaningful that users can type in. However, non-ASCII characters encoded into ASCII are unlikely to be meaningful to users or easy for them to accurately type. I think that we should make it simple and just say that any List-ID is all-ASCII (for the reasons you specified) the same way as we did for the Message-ID header field. And informational suggestion to use punycode version of domain names can be added, if needed. 6. Further Discussion 1. Obtaining Downgrade Information -- for a mailing list, or mail relay server for that matter, that is UTF8SMTP-aware, receiving mail from an internationalized email address, the alt-address is not required from the sending MTA for the transport to be complete. Thereupon when the mailing list retransmits the message to its subscribers, it may encounter paths where a downgrade is called for. In order to mitigate this situation, the mailing list might perhaps decide to reject all incoming mail from an internationalized email address that lacks an alt-address. An alternative would be to require that all subscribers be UTF8SMTP-aware. I think this would become the more common alternative over time, if EAI takes off. However, note that in general, downgrades are not expected to be the normal case. 11. Informative References [mailto-bis] M. Duerst and L. Masinter, "The mailto URI scheme", draft-duerst-mailto-bis-xx (work in progress). [List-*] G. Neufeld and J. Baer, "The Use of URLs as Meta-Syntax for Core Mail List Commands and their Transport through Message Header Fields", July 1998 [List-ID] R. Chandhok and G. Wenger, "List-Id: A Structured Field and Namespace for the Identification of Mailing Lists", March 2001 [IRI] M. Duerst and M. Suignard,"Internationalized Resource Identifiers (IRIs)", January 2005 The last 3 documents are lacking RFC numbers. From root@core3.amsl.com Sun Nov 29 15:30:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 491113A6898; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:30:02 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20091129233002.491113A6898@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:30:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-09.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:30:02 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : P. Resnick, C. Newman Filename : draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-09.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2009-11-29 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support UTF-8 encoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. Status of this Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted to IETF in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. This Internet-Draft will expire on June 3, 2010. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2009 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the BSD License. This document may contain material from IETF Documents or IETF Contributions published or made publicly available before November 10, 2008. The person(s) controlling the copyright in some of this material may not have granted the IETF Trust the right to allow modifications of such material outside the IETF Standards Process. Without obtaining an adequate license from the person(s) controlling the copyright in such materials, this document may not be modified outside the IETF Standards Process, and derivative works of it may not be created outside the IETF Standards Process, except to format it for publication as an RFC or to translate it into languages other than English. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-09.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-09.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-11-29151517.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Sun Nov 29 23:45:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61213A6A08 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:45:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.18 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.18 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.879, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JsXZbus+AgLa for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16743A6A00 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.158]) by scmailgw02.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id nAU7jQ4I005925 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:45:28 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 6018_52c9f9fc_dd84_11de_bc34_001d096c566a; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:45:26 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:33330) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:41:48 +0900 Message-ID: <4B1377FD.4070309@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:45:01 +0900 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Yee References: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Larry Masinter Subject: Re: [EAI] (Re: EAI WG status and rechartering) -- mailto bis X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:45:37 -0000 Hello Joseph, On 2009/11/27 1:48, Joseph Yee wrote: > Hi Martin, > > I read the latest mailto-bis (07). Section 2.4 and 2.5 are great. These are just point 4 and 5 in a numbered list within Section 2, but thanks for your review and comments, anyway. > In the paragraph right after section 2.5, it mentions the pct-encoding > for and . My own interpretation had it sounds like > allowing to be pct-encoded. Since current and proposed message > header definition do not allow non ASCII characters, wouldn't that be > easier to limit to ASCII only? That would make be case > insensitive easier to manage too. Okay, so you are proposing to change the grammar from: hfname = *qchar (with qchar being unreserved / pct-encoded / some-delims) to: hfname = unreserved On the face of it, that may seem okay. But looking at things in detail, it isn't. Optional header field names, as defined in RFC 5322 (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322#section-3.6.8) can include any printable ASCII character except ":". So for whatever reason, and however unlikely, there may be a header field named "#browns" (an abbreviation for "hashbrowns"), where the "#" would need escaping in a mailto: URI. This would lead to an example such as: mailto:frypan@kitchen.home?%23browns=diced-with-bacon Which would translate to a mail containing: To: frypan@kitchen.hom #browns: diced-with-bacon So even if this example is quite silly, we can essentially not remove pct-encoded from the production. This means that software interpreting the mailto: URI has to reverse the %-escaping on hfnames, anyway. Do you think we need such an example? I hope not, but if you think it would help, I'd also appreciate ideas for a somewhat better example. > I noticed that section 4 would stop > non ASCII in , but wonder if it's good to restrict it in mailto > IRI. Yes, you are correct, section 4 would essentially stop non-ASCII as well as most ASCII, too. Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. D�rst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From jyee@ca.afilias.info Mon Nov 30 10:31:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615AE3A68BA for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:31:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_63=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ql6wcijEjTMb for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4581C3A684C for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NFB2H-0002Yx-7P; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:31:45 +0000 Received: from tor-gateway.afilias.info ([199.15.87.4] helo=jyee-lt.tor.afilias-int.info) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NFB2H-0001l4-3V; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:31:45 +0000 From: Joseph Yee To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_J._D=FCrst?= In-Reply-To: <4B1377FD.4070309@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <4B06DB11.1080602@isode.com> <4B0A570F.30900@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4B1377FD.4070309@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:31:44 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Larry Masinter Subject: Re: [EAI] (Re: EAI WG status and rechartering) -- mailto bis X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:31:57 -0000 On 30-Nov-09, at 2:45 AM, Martin J. D=FCrst wrote: > Hello Joseph, > > On 2009/11/27 1:48, Joseph Yee wrote: >> Hi Martin, >> >> I read the latest mailto-bis (07). Section 2.4 and 2.5 are great. > > These are just point 4 and 5 in a numbered list within Section 2, =20 > but thanks for your review and comments, anyway. yes, my mistake there. > >> In the paragraph right after section 2.5, it mentions the pct-=20 >> encoding >> for and . My own interpretation had it sounds like >> allowing to be pct-encoded. Since current and proposed =20 >> message >> header definition do not allow non ASCII characters, wouldn't that be >> easier to limit to ASCII only? That would make be =20= >> case >> insensitive easier to manage too. > > Okay, so you are proposing to change the grammar from: > > hfname =3D *qchar > > (with qchar being unreserved / pct-encoded / some-delims) to: > > hfname =3D unreserved > > On the face of it, that may seem okay. But looking at things in =20 > detail, it isn't. Optional header field names, as defined in RFC =20 > 5322 (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322#section-3.6.8) can =20 > include any printable ASCII character except ":". So for whatever =20 > reason, and however unlikely, there may be a header field named =20 > "#browns" (an abbreviation for "hashbrowns"), where the "#" would =20 > need escaping in a mailto: URI. This would lead to an example such as: > > mailto:frypan@kitchen.home?%23browns=3Ddiced-with-bacon > > Which would translate to a mail containing: > > To: frypan@kitchen.hom > #browns: diced-with-bacon > > So even if this example is quite silly, we can essentially not =20 > remove pct-encoded from the production. This means that software =20 > interpreting the mailto: URI has to reverse the %-escaping on =20 > hfnames, anyway. > > Do you think we need such an example? I hope not, but if you think =20 > it would help, I'd also appreciate ideas for a somewhat better =20 > example. I agreed with you, there are still non alphabets in hfname. The =20 suggested restriction would not help. For example, maybe header X-something? It's not common either,but =20 would show escaping in header name and I don't think we need such =20 example. Thanks for your explanation, Martin. Regards, Joseph > > >> I noticed that section 4 would stop >> non ASCII in , but wonder if it's good to restrict it in =20 >> mailto >> IRI. > > Yes, you are correct, section 4 would essentially stop non-ASCII as =20= > well as most ASCII, too. > > Regards, Martin. > > > --=20 > #-# Martin J. D=FCrst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University > #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From wwwrun@core3.amsl.com Mon Nov 30 10:54:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id B535C3A6AAD; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: <20091130185414.B535C3A6AAD@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:54:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: Internet Architecture Board , eai mailing list , eai chair , RFC Editor Subject: [EAI] Document Action: 'IMAP Support for UTF-8' to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI $Email Address Internationalization$" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:54:14 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IMAP Support for UTF-8 ' as an Experimental RFC This document is the product of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alexey Melnikov and Lisa Dusseault. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-09.txt Technical Summary This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support unencoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. Working Group Summary The WG has consensus on the mechanisms described in this document. Document Quality Alexey Melnikov has reviewed this document most carefully before he became AD. One implementation of the document is known. Personnel Harald Alvestrand is the document shepherd. Alexey Melnikov is the Responsible Area Director. RFC Editor Note In Section 2, the last sentence: OLD: This specification creates five new IMAP capabilities to allow servers to advertise these new extensions, along with two new IMAP list ^^^^ extensions and a new IMAP list return option. NEW: This specification creates five new IMAP capabilities to allow servers to advertise these new extensions, along with two new IMAP LIST selection ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ options and a new IMAP list return option. ^^^^^^^ In Section 3, 2nd paragraph, the last 2 sentences: OLD: (Note that the "UTF8=ONLY" capability described in Section 7 implies the "UTF8=ACCEPT" capability. See additional information in that section.) NEW: (Note that the "UTF8=ONLY" capability described in Section 7 and the "UTF8=ALL" capability described in Section 6 imply the "UTF8=ACCEPT" capability. See additional information in these sections.) Section 3.1., paragraph 7: > would be the same as if other syntacticly valid but semantically Nit: s/syntacticly/syntactically/ Section 3.4., paragraph 1: > "LIST-EXTENEDED" [RFC5258] capability, the server MUST support the Nit: s/"LIST-EXTENEDED"/"LIST-EXTENDED"/ In Section 5, please change the last sentence to read: OLD: The server MUST reject UTF-8 which fails to comply with the formal syntax in RFC 3629 [RFC3629]. NEW: The server MUST reject UTF-8 which fails to comply with the formal syntax in RFC 3629 [RFC3629] or if it encounters a Unicode characters listed in section 2.3 of SASLprep [RFC4013]. In Section 6 add another paragraph to the end: NEW: Note that the "UTF8=ALL" capability implies the "UTF8=ACCEPT" capability. In Section 8, change the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph to read: OLD: Other widely deployed MIME charsets SHOULD be supported. NEW: If the server supports other charsets in IMAP SEARCH or IMAP CONVERT [RFC5259], it SHOULD also support those charsets in this conversion. and also add [RFC5259] to the list of Normative References. Add a new Appendix B "Examples demonstrating relationships between UTF8= capabilities": UTF8=ACCEPT UTF8=USER UTF8=APPEND UTF8=ACCEPT UTF8=ALL UTF8=ALL ; Note, same as above UTF8=ACCEPT UTF8=USER UTF8=APPEND UTF8=ALL UTF8=ONLY UTF8=USER UTF8=ONLY ; Note, same as above In the IANA Considerations section please replace "RFC XXXX" with the RFC number of this document.