From chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Thu Apr 1 03:01:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3883D3A69E2 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:01:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.341, BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS=1.13, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t2nPVxctvA4T for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net [79.135.125.112]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD373A69FF for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [80.175.135.89] ([80.175.135.89] helo=clerew.man.ac.uk country=GB ident=postmaster^pop3$clerew$man$ac$uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.290) id 4bb46f1c.1163.79 for ima@ietf.org; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:02:04 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Received: from clerew.man.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o31A23fk025375 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:02:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:02:03 +0100 To: IMA From: "Charles Lindsey" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <469969563.19439@cnnic.cn> <470093761.06648@cnnic.cn> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <470093761.06648@cnnic.cn> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.25 (SunOS) Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:01:55 -0000 On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:49:42 +0100, YAO Jiankang wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Newman" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:55 PM > Subject: [EAI] ideas for new work >> We'll need to revise the downgrade spec. The new one never attempts to >> preserve UTF-8 addresses in a separate header (except maybe received), >> doesn't have to deal with > syntax, and for the >> POP/IMAP case where the alt-addresses are unavailable, we simply choose >> some corruption of the address. > > based on my understanding to the last ietf conlcusion, we propose no > downgrade solution, so the downgrade document will be dropped rather > than being revised. I don't think the downgrade should be dropped. But with the disappearance of the alt address sites will have less encouragement to downgrade. But the downgrade document should be revised so it can be used by sites which so choose (as I believe many will until such time as the whole world is using EAI). But it might well remain as Experimental. But our charter should allow us to continue to work on it. -- Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131     Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5 From yaojk@cnnic.cn Thu Apr 1 23:03:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0ADA3A680E for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.935 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.248, BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS=1.13, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kGZJ603u4ZPE for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 23:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1672D3A6358 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 23:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Fri, 02 Apr 2010 14:04:28 +0800 Message-ID: <470188268.22892@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 14:04:28 +0800 Message-ID: <6FA5CEF23CCC45B0994895603039627B@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "IMA" , "Charles Lindsey" References: <469969563.19439@cnnic.cn> <470093761.06648@cnnic.cn> <470116152.21929@cnnic.cn> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 14:04:47 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 06:03:57 -0000 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkNoYXJsZXMgTGluZHNleSIg PGNobEBjbGVyZXcubWFuLmFjLnVrPg0KVG86ICJJTUEiIDxpbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTZW50OiBU aHVyc2RheSwgQXByaWwgMDEsIDIwMTAgNjowMiBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtFQUldIGlkZWFz IGZvciBuZXcgd29yaw0KDQoNCk9uIFRodSwgMDEgQXByIDIwMTAgMDQ6NDk6NDIgKzAxMDAsIFlB TyBKaWFua2FuZyA8eWFvamtAY25uaWMuY24+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1l c3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogIkNocmlzIE5ld21hbiIgPGNocmlzLm5ld21hbkBvcmFjbGUu Y29tPg0KPiBUbzogPGltYUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4gU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgTWFyY2ggMzAsIDIw MTAgMTI6NTUgUE0NCj4gU3ViamVjdDogW0VBSV0gaWRlYXMgZm9yIG5ldyB3b3JrDQoNCg0KPkkg ZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGRvd25ncmFkZSBzaG91bGQgYmUgZHJvcHBlZC4gQnV0IHdpdGggdGhl IGRpc2FwcGVhcmFuY2UgIA0KPm9mIHRoZSBhbHQgYWRkcmVzcyBzaXRlcyB3aWxsIGhhdmUgbGVz cyBlbmNvdXJhZ2VtZW50IHRvIGRvd25ncmFkZS4gQnV0ICANCj50aGUgZG93bmdyYWRlIGRvY3Vt ZW50IHNob3VsZCBiZSByZXZpc2VkIHNvIGl0IGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIGJ5IHNpdGVzIHdoaWNoICAN Cj5zbyBjaG9vc2UgKGFzIEkgYmVsaWV2ZSBtYW55IHdpbGwgdW50aWwgc3VjaCB0aW1lIGFzIHRo ZSB3aG9sZSB3b3JsZCBpcyAgDQo+dXNpbmcgRUFJKS4gQnV0IGl0IG1pZ2h0IHdlbGwgcmVtYWlu IGFzIEV4cGVyaW1lbnRhbC4gQnV0IG91ciBjaGFydGVyICANCj5zaG91bGQgYWxsb3cgdXMgdG8g Y29udGludWUgdG8gd29yayBvbiBpdC4NCg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoaXMgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBj aGFydGVyIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIHRyYWNrIGRvY3VtZW50cy4NCg0KRGlz Y292ZXJhYmxlIGZhbGxiYWNrIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBtYXkgYmUgaW52ZXN0aWdhdGVkIGluZGVwZW5k ZW50bHkgIA0Kb2YgdGhlIGNvcmUgZG9jdW1lbnRzLg0KDQotLSANCkNoYXJsZXMgSC4gTGluZHNl eSAtLS0tLS0tLS1BdCBIb21lLCBkb2luZyBteSBvd24gdGhpbmctLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0NClRlbDogKzQ0IDE2MSA0MzYgNjEzMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQpXZWI6 IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY3MubWFuLmFjLnVrL35jaGwNCkVtYWlsOiBjaGxAY2xlcmV3Lm1hbi5hYy51 ayBTbmFpbDogNSBDbGVyZXdvb2QgQXZlLCBDSEVBRExFLCBTSzggM0pVLCBVLksuDQpQR1A6IDJD MTVGMUE5IEZpbmdlcnByaW50OiA3MyA2RCBDMiA1MSA5MyBBMCAwMSBFNyA2NSBFOCA2NCA3RSAx NCBBNCBBQiBBNQ0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCklNQSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCklNQUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbWE= From chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Fri Apr 2 02:42:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BD83A672F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 02:42:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.532 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.078, BAYES_20=-0.74, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS=1.13, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uAe8C3qN+nNX for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 02:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net [79.135.125.112]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66423A67BD for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 02:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [80.175.135.89] ([80.175.135.89] helo=clerew.man.ac.uk country=GB ident=postmaster#pop3^clerew$man*ac#uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.290) id 4bb5bc37.3ea2.32 for ima@ietf.org; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:43:19 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Received: from clerew.man.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o329hIxo012905 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:43:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 10:43:18 +0100 To: IMA From: "Charles Lindsey" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <469969563.19439@cnnic.cn> <470093761.06648@cnnic.cn> <470116152.21929@cnnic.cn> <470188268.22892@cnnic.cn> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <470188268.22892@cnnic.cn> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.25 (SunOS) Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:42:49 -0000 On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 07:04:47 +0100, YAO Jiankang wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Lindsey" > To: "IMA" > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:02 PM > Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work > > > On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:49:42 +0100, YAO Jiankang wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Newman" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:55 PM >> Subject: [EAI] ideas for new work > > >> I don't think the downgrade should be dropped. But with the >> disappearance >> of the alt address sites will have less encouragement to downgrade. But >> the downgrade document should be revised so it can be used by sites >> which >> so choose (as I believe many will until such time as the whole world is >> using EAI). But it might well remain as Experimental. But our charter >> should allow us to continue to work on it. > > I think that this version of charter will focus on the standard track > documents. > > Discoverable fallback addresses may be investigated independently > of the core documents. > Indeed, we should be chartered to move the main documents to standards track status as out first priority. But we should also be permitted to pursue downgrading at some lower priority. There are two reasons for this. First, the likelihood of a downgrading method may affect the way the main documents are written. For example, the SMPT upgrade document might say: "If the destination server does not advertise the UTF8SMTP capability, the message SHOULD be rejected (aka bounced up the return path), but it MAY alternatively, if the server has a suitable capability, be downgraded into some equivalentRFC 5322 message and sent to some equivalent ASCII address. This document does not describe any such capability, but there is work in progress .....". Note that if the equivalent address turns out to be undeliverable, it will simply bounce in the usual manner, so no harm has been done beyond some extra delay. Second, there may be messages with all-ASCII To:, From:, Reply-To:, etc but with UTF-8 in other headers (e.g Subject). For these, transport is not a problem, and our existing downgrading would be fine. This might be especially useful for mailing lists with both EAI and non-EAI members. -- Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131     Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5 From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Mon Apr 5 14:40:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3CC128C0EB for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:40:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.727 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.727 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.728, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Hs4jmOHY23W for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DCE3A6A8C for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.20.2] ((unknown) [212.183.140.53]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:40:52 +0100 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS Message-ID: <4BBA58D9.6010608@isode.com> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:40:41 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: YAO Jiankang References: <469969563.19439@cnnic.cn> <470092646.20179@cnnic.cn> <470099994.15887@cnnic.cn> <470101749.21113@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: <470101749.21113@cnnic.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:40:57 -0000 YAO Jiankang wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alexey Melnikov" >To: "YAO Jiankang" >Cc: "Chris Newman" ; >Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:32 PM >Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work > > > >>YAO Jiankang wrote: >> >> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Chris Newman" >>>To: >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:55 PM >>>Subject: [EAI] ideas for new work >>> >>> >>>>--On March 29, 2010 12:16:47 -0400 Joseph Yee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Re-charter discussion >>>>>- new SMTP-extension name needed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>RFC 5336 Specification changes: >>>>* new extension name >>>> >>>> >>>how about >>>"Standardized Email Address Internationalization" ? >>> >>> >>I think Chris was talking about the capability string returned in EHLO. >> >> > >I think that you are right. > >at first glance, I think it should be the keyword for EHLO. > >but after looking at the section 3.1, RFC 5336, I think it might refer to the sentence " 1. The name of the SMTP service extension is "Email Address > Internationalization". " > >or both two sentence should be renamed? > I think you are right, both names should be changed. In particular the name of the SMTP service extension should be changed to avoid confusion between the experimental version and the standard track version. >for the name of the SMTP service extension, I suggest "Standardized Email Address Internationalization" > Right. We can also can rename the old name to be something like "Email Address Internationalization (Experimental)". >for the EHLO keyword value, we use "UTF8SMTP-std"? or we creat more candidates and poll it? > Maybe UTF8MIME (similar to 8BITMIME/BINARYMIME). But this is not a big deal for me, I can live with whatever people prefer. I am hoping we don't have to have a long debate on this ;-). >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >in section 3.1, RFC 5336: > >" > >3.1. Framework for the Internationalization Extension > > > The following service extension is defined: > > 1. The name of the SMTP service extension is "Email Address > Internationalization". > > 2. The EHLO keyword value associated with this extension is > "UTF8SMTP". > >" > > > >> > -- IETF Application Area Director, Internet Messaging Team Lead, JID: same as my email address From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Thu Apr 8 14:13:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF43D3A6855 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:13:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bj4eHIE+e3jy for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6303A6897 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14CASC130.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.52.9) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:13:12 -0700 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC133.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.2.250]) by TK5EX14CASC130.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.52.9]) with mapi; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:13:12 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: new utf8smtp Thread-Index: AcrXYEtYgjtxuovwQve/r9X6Vouk+A== Content-Class: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:13:06 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <0b227076-aef1-4388-aa5e-90111c66fbd4> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: James Rinker Subject: Re: [EAI] new utf8smtp X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:13:30 -0000 I don't really care, but I don't see much reason to change the name. If we= did I'd hope the name didn't permenently keep the expt around. Eg: I don= 't like UTF8SMTP-V2 or -std, etc. What about just UTF8? It's clearly SMTP in context? - shawn Sent from my Windows Mobile=AE smartphone -----Original Message----- From: ima-request@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:00 PM To: ima@ietf.org Subject: IMA Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3 If you have received this digest without all the individual message attachments you will need to update your digest options in your list subscription. To do so, go to=20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima Click the 'Unsubscribe or edit options' button, log in, and set "Get MIME or Plain Text Digests?" to MIME. You can set this option globally for all the list digests you receive at this point. Send IMA mailing list submissions to ima@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ima-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at ima-owner@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of IMA digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: ideas for new work (Alexey Melnikov) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:40:41 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work To: YAO Jiankang Cc: ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <4BBA58D9.6010608@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed YAO Jiankang wrote: >----- Original Message -----=20 >From: "Alexey Melnikov" >To: "YAO Jiankang" >Cc: "Chris Newman" ; >Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:32 PM >Subject: Re: [EAI] ideas for new work > > =20 > >>YAO Jiankang wrote: >> =20 >> >>>----- Original Message -----=20 >>>From: "Chris Newman" >>>To: >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:55 PM >>>Subject: [EAI] ideas for new work >>> =20 >>> >>>>--On March 29, 2010 12:16:47 -0400 Joseph Yee wr= ote: >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>Re-charter discussion >>>>>- new SMTP-extension name needed >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>RFC 5336 Specification changes: >>>>* new extension name >>>> =20 >>>> >>>how about >>>"Standardized Email Address Internationalization" ? >>> =20 >>> >>I think Chris was talking about the capability string returned in EHLO. >> =20 >> > >I think that you are right. > >at first glance, I think it should be the keyword for EHLO. > >but after looking at the section 3.1, RFC 5336, I think it might refer t= o the sentence " 1. The name of the SMTP service extension is "Email Add= ress > Internationalization". " > >or both two sentence should be renamed? > I think you are right, both names should be changed. In particular the=20 name of the SMTP service extension should be changed to avoid confusion=20 between the experimental version and the standard track version. >for the name of the SMTP service extension, I suggest "Standardized Email = Address Internationalization" > Right. We can also can rename the old name to be something like "Email=20 Address Internationalization (Experimental)". >for the EHLO keyword value, we use "UTF8SMTP-std"? or we creat more candi= dates and poll it? > Maybe UTF8MIME (similar to 8BITMIME/BINARYMIME). But this is not a big deal for me, I can live with whatever people=20 prefer. I am hoping we don't have to have a long debate on this ;-). >--------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------- >in section 3.1, RFC 5336: > >" > >3.1. Framework for the Internationalization Extension > > > The following service extension is defined: > > 1. The name of the SMTP service extension is "Email Address > Internationalization". > > 2. The EHLO keyword value associated with this extension is > "UTF8SMTP". > >" > > > >> > --=20 IETF Application Area Director, Internet Messaging Team Lead, JID: same as my email address ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima End of IMA Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3 ********************************** From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org Mon Apr 12 10:01:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B2928C15F; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.44 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.44 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.160, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RiLactrPxU6t; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1890:1112:1::2f]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC81628C1B1; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 16CB2E07B4; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20100412165445.16CB2E07B4@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [EAI] RFC 5825 on Displaying Downgraded Messages for Email Address Internationalization X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:01:10 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5825 Title: Displaying Downgraded Messages for Email Address Internationalization Author: K. Fujiwara, B. Leiba Status: Experimental Stream: IETF Date: April 2010 Mailbox: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, barryleiba@computer.org Pages: 14 Characters: 26314 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5825.txt This document describes a method for displaying downgraded messages that originally contained internationalized email addresses or internationalized header fields. This document defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. This document is a product of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. EXPERIMENTAL: This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From tss@iki.fi Tue Apr 13 14:30:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68AE728C1FC for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:30:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BFdaUod1TVXT for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848603A67F4 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.199] (e81-197-71-250.elisa-laajakaista.fi [81.197.71.250]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20202FA8A8A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:29:48 +0300 (EEST) From: Timo Sirainen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:29:47 +0300 Message-Id: <3045FE1B-5158-4FC5-9A88-079367BBBA38@iki.fi> To: ima@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Subject: [EAI] IMAP UTF8 draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:30:07 -0000 The current method of always up/down-converting data breaks digital = signatures. It should be possible to fetch signed messages with 7bit = encoded and/or UTF8 headers without breaking them (worst case: mailing = list digest message containing both). Clients that are going to support = UTF8 headers will probably internally support up-conversion anyway. = Maybe the IMAP UTF8 support should be less ambitious? Like: When mailbox is selected with UTF8 flag, it only up-converts the = following commands: - FETCH BODY - FETCH BODYSTRUCTURE - FETCH ENVELOPE Other than that, it just passes the data as it was originally received, = with or without UTF8 headers. That way the IMAP client can verify = digital signatures correctly. I could maybe also see these new commands useful: - FETCH BODY[HEADER.UTF8] - FETCH BODY[HEADER.FIELDS.UTF8 (..)] - FETCH BODY[HEADER.FIELDS.NOT.UTF8 (..)] - FETCH BODY[n.MIME.UTF8] - FETCH BODY[n.HEADER.UTF8] The reason for the added .UTF8 is mainly to avoid confusion with message = part sizes not matching as expected. For example RFC822.SIZE might not = be size of BODY[HEADER.UTF8] + BODY[TEXT.UTF8]. These anyway add more = server complexity and I'm not sure how useful they'll really be for = clients. And if all goes well, in distant future everyone is using UTF8 = and these commands will be useless then. Anyway, even with those extra commands I think this simplifies server = implementations enough so that [NOT-UTF-8] failure and \NoUTF8 LIST flag = and UTF8=3DALL capability could all be dropped completely. Another thing: If UTF8=3DONLY is going to be realistic only in distant = future, couldn't it be left into distant future? By then we might be = talking about IMAP5 capability already. It's confusing to have so many = UTF8=3D* capabilities.= From tss@iki.fi Wed Apr 14 07:05:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D473A69EA for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:05:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HKLmpsTbwJHF for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C06B3A69D9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.2] (e81-197-71-250.elisa-laajakaista.fi [81.197.71.250]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D80FA89AC for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:05:47 +0300 (EEST) From: Timo Sirainen To: ima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3045FE1B-5158-4FC5-9A88-079367BBBA38@iki.fi> References: <3045FE1B-5158-4FC5-9A88-079367BBBA38@iki.fi> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-K3oAx/LNPZZsL3nxKvnC" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:05:46 +0300 Message-ID: <1271253946.8757.261.camel@hurina> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.2 Subject: Re: [EAI] IMAP UTF8 draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:05:56 -0000 --=-K3oAx/LNPZZsL3nxKvnC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 00:29 +0300, Timo Sirainen wrote: > The current method of always up/down-converting data breaks digital > signatures. It should be possible to fetch signed messages with 7bit > encoded and/or UTF8 headers without breaking them (worst case: mailing > list digest message containing both).=20 Oh, it was mentioned in the draft after all. I did do a search for "signature" before sending this mail, but it didn't find anything. :) Anyway, the point is still pretty much the same. If you're not up-converting signed MIME parts, why bother doing it for the rest of them? Clients will have to handle it anyway. Another point: IMAP requires that msg-att-static fields never change for messages. UTF-8 up-conversion isn't defined in a way that guarantees that upgrading a server version won't change the up-conversion code (bug fixes, more features). So either servers will a) violate this "never changes" requirement, b) have to cache old up-converted messages forever (wasting disk space) or c) keep multiple versioned up-conversion functions and remember which version was used to up-convert which old message. All of these solutions seem pretty bad to me. --=-K3oAx/LNPZZsL3nxKvnC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkvFy7oACgkQyUhSUUBVislRKwCghbYG4M3hgc19Ta1h9bAHjycy mHcAn37a95I3W2AXQqGqsOU7wNhdi3K4 =CWZO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-K3oAx/LNPZZsL3nxKvnC-- From klensin@jck.com Wed Apr 14 09:30:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D09228C22D for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.314, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NoZliqizoA0I for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 301BA3A659A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1O25TF-000LgH-Ir; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:29:45 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:05:42 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Timo Sirainen , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <49F8704C4EABE0CB878AE84C@7AD4D3FB4841A5E367CCF211> In-Reply-To: <3045FE1B-5158-4FC5-9A88-079367BBBA38@iki.fi> References: <3045FE1B-5158-4FC5-9A88-079367BBBA38@iki.fi> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] IMAP UTF8 draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:30:05 -0000 --On Wednesday, 14 April, 2010 00:29 +0300 Timo Sirainen wrote: > The current method of always up/down-converting data breaks > digital signatures. It should be possible to fetch signed > messages with 7bit encoded and/or UTF8 headers without > breaking them (worst case: mailing list digest message >... Timo, Without taking a position about the strengths or weaknesses of your idea, I think it would be very helpful if you would write down the details and mechanisms, and explore the implications, in an I-D. We often find that discussions are much better when there is a specific proposal on the table. john