From root@core3.amsl.com Tue Jun 8 16:30:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 40E8D3A6833; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 16:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: IESG Secretary To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100608233004.40E8D3A6833@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 16:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: john-ietf@jck.com, ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] WG Action: RECHARTER: Email Address Internationalization (eai) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 23:30:04 -0000 The Email Address Internationalization (eai) working group in the Applications Area of the IETF has been rechartered. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the working group Chairs. Email Address Internationalization (eai) ------------------------------------- Current Status: Active Chairs: John Klensin Joseph Yee Secretary: Jiankang Yao Applications Area Directors: Alexey Melnikov Peter Saint-Andre Applications Area Advisor: Alexey Melnikov Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ima@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima Description of Working Group: The email address has two parts, local part and domain part. Email address internationalization must deal with both. This working group's previous experimental efforts investigated the use of UTF-8 as a general approach to email internationalization. That approach is based on the use of an SMTP extension to enable the use of UTF-8 in envelope address local-parts, optionally in address domain-parts, and in mail headers. The mail header contexts can include both addresses and wherever existing protocols (e.g., RFC 2231) permit the use of encoded-words. All WG deliverables specified under the original charter, particularly the experimental protocol specifications, have been completed. The core specifications have been implemented and interoperability tests performed. The WG is now being rechartered to permit advancing revised versions of those specifications and supporting documents into the standards track. As a result of implementation and testing experience, the WG has concluded to drop the model of in-transit downgrading that was a key part of the original effort. In-transit downgrading approaches simply do not work well enough and predictably enough to be worth the considerable additional complexity that accompanies them. In particular, dropping in-transit downgrading eliminates the need for the first significant change to the syntax of an email address since RFC 821 and 822 were published in 1982. Work will therefore reflect a "no fallback" approach. That approach provides a very minimal transition mechanism, but is consistent with the long-term view that email with invalid addresses or syntax should be rejected, rather than fixed up in transit between submission servers and delivery servers. Discoverable fallback addresses that could be applied before or during message submission or after SMTP "final delivery" may be investigated. The WG may also develop other materials to give advice to implementers or operators. Those efforts may lead to informational documents or best practices recommendations, but are considered independent of the core documents. Work on them will progress only under the condition that it not delay the primary standards track specifications. The WG believes that the lessons learned from implementation and testing and removal of in-transit downgrading as a goal eliminates all major areas of controversy about the core specifications and should permit very rapid progress. Such rapid progress is an explicit goal for the WG; issues resolved in the past will not be revisited unless those who wish to do so can demonstrate data, reasoning, or consequences that were not considered earlier. At the same time, any attempt to significantly extend an established and widely deployed set of protocols may uncover new consequences or side effects that need consideration and evaluation. If faced with a choice between spending time on such new considerations, the WG will favor getting things right over accelerating the schedule. Deliverables The following deliverables are foreseen in this charter. The WG chairs may (re)structure the deliverables into specific documents or document sets as needed. Adding or removing documents other than those listed below as "Required" or "Additional" will require a charter update. Required Documents (these are the "core specifications" referred to elsewhere) * Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email, replacing RFC 4952 (Informational or Proposed Standard at IESG discretion once complete) * UTF-8 SMTP extension specification, replacing RFC 5336 (Proposed Standard) * Header format specification, replacing RFC 5335 (Proposed Standard) * Internationalized DSN specification, replacing RFC 5337 (Proposed Standard) * UTF-8 POP specification, replacing RFC 5721 (Proposed Standard) * UTF-8 IMAP specification, replacing RFC 5738 (Proposed Standard) Additional possible documents suggested. While milestones are listed for most of these documents, they may be dropped by the WG with the consent of the Responsible AD. * Advice for MUA implementors (Informational or BCP) * Advice for EAI deployment (Informational or BCP) * Advice for non-ASCII and ASCII addresses for the same mailbox (Informational or BCP) * Mailinglist (Informational or Standards Track, replacing draft-eai-mailinglist) * Mailto (Proposed Standard, updating draft-duerst-mailto-bis to reflect internationalized addresses) * Protocol extensions for RFC 4409 Submission Servers or configuration advice for the MUA->Submission server interface. Goals and Milestones: Mar 2010 Discussion of Recharter for standards track at IETF 77 (completed) May 2010 New charter approval from IESG Jul 2010 EAI Framework to IESG Sep 2010 Headers to IESG Sep 2010 SMTP to IESG Sep 2010 DSN to IESG Nov 2010 IMAP & POP3 to IESG Dec 2010 Decision about possible changes or comments about Submission Servers. If the decision is to generate a document, the decision will include a schedule. Jan 2011 Advice for non-ASCII & ASCII addresses to IESG Jan 2011 Advice for MUA implementors to IESG Jan 2011 Advice for EAI deployment to IESG Apr 2011 Mailinglist to IESG Apr 2011 Mailto (Proposed Standard) to IESG From yaojk@cnnic.cn Tue Jun 8 20:33:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B5C3A6809 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 20:33:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.607 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.607 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ctJBrkwQOUog for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 20:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0032A3A67B2 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 20:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:32:59 +0800 Message-ID: <476054379.01557@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:32:59 +0800 Message-ID: From: "Jiankang YAO" To: "IESG Secretary" , References: <476039871.13985@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 11:33:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Cc: john-ietf@jck.com, ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] WG Action: RECHARTER: Email Address Internationalization (eai) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address 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aXMgdG8gZ2VuZXJhdGUNCj4gICAgICAgICAgICBhIGRvY3VtZW50LCB0aGUgZGVjaXNpb24gd2ls bCBpbmNsdWRlIGEgc2NoZWR1bGUuDQo+IEphbiAyMDExICAgIEFkdmljZSBmb3Igbm9uLUFTQ0lJ ICYgQVNDSUkgYWRkcmVzc2VzIHRvIElFU0cNCj4gSmFuIDIwMTEgICAgQWR2aWNlIGZvciBNVUEg aW1wbGVtZW50b3JzIHRvIElFU0cNCj4gSmFuIDIwMTEgICAgQWR2aWNlIGZvciBFQUkgZGVwbG95 bWVudCB0byBJRVNHDQo+IEFwciAyMDExICAgIE1haWxpbmdsaXN0IHRvIElFU0cNCj4gQXByIDIw MTEgICAgTWFpbHRvIChQcm9wb3NlZCBTdGFuZGFyZCkgdG8gSUVTRw0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJTUEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ IElNQUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lt YQ== From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Wed Jun 9 12:21:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0573A659A for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:21:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.745, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gO8dBqSdsQO4 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0063A676A for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.178) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:21:17 -0700 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC139.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.7.48]) by TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.178]) with mapi id 14.01.0160.007; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:21:16 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG Action: RECHARTER: Email Address Internationalization Thread-Index: AcsICOeihkePGo+ARwq9spimbSjllw== Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:21:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [EAI] WG Action: RECHARTER: Email Address Internationalization X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:21:17 -0000 Q29vbCwgZ3JlYXQgOikNCg0K From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Wed Jun 9 12:26:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C366D3A687A for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.227 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.227 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.372, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xf93uXFxmwMT for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062843A67E7 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14CASC130.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.52.9) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:26:13 -0700 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC139.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.7.48]) by TK5EX14CASC130.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.52.9]) with mapi id 14.01.0160.006; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:26:11 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: So what's the status of the drafts :) Thread-Index: AcsICZAvCoeFTLt+ShqyRVOIDWpz2A== Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:26:12 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [EAI] So what's the status of the drafts :) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:26:14 -0000 Tm93IHdlJ3ZlIHJlY2hhcnRlcmVkLCB3aGF0J3MgdGhlIHN0YXR1cyBvZiB0aGUgbmV3IGRyYWZ0 cz8NCg0KOikNCg0K From klensin@jck.com Wed Jun 9 13:46:20 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56053A67A5 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 13:46:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.142 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.142 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.143, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Z+JW-yD7aES for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 13:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0CFE3A659B for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 13:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1OMSAG-000HU7-CE; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:46:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:46:19 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Shawn Steele , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] So what's the status of the drafts :) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:46:21 -0000 --On Wednesday, 09 June, 2010 19:26 +0000 Shawn Steele wrote: > Now we've rechartered, what's the status of the new drafts? I've asked Jiankang and Joseph to start working on scheduling and an agenda for Maastricht. I expect to have a preliminary draft of "framework" to YangWoo within the next week and posted not long thereafter. Per earlier notes, other editors should start assessing their availability and schedules and should get back to myself, Joseph, and Jiankang with either commitments or suggestions about alternate approaches (I will ask Jiankang to start harassing people if we don't hear from them, but it would be better to hear from them). And, fwiw, I interpret asking a lot of questions about status as volunteering to take on roles that would otherwise block progress :-) john From maowei_ietf@cnnic.cn Wed Jun 9 18:56:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20DC3A6855 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnxTTCrz+H8u for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AE14D3A67A4 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:56:03 +0800 Message-ID: <476134963.18770@cnnic.cn> Received: from 218.241.109.24 by mail.cnnic.cn with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:56:03 +0800 X-WebMAIL-MUA: [218.241.109.24] From: maowei_ietf@cnnic.cn To: Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:56:03 +0800 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] WG Action: RECHARTER: Email Address Internationalization X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: maowei_ietf@cnnic.cn List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 01:56:07 -0000 +1 >From: Shawn Steele >Reply-To: >To: "ima@ietf.org" >Subject: Re: [EAI] WG Action: RECHARTER: Email Address Internationalization >Date:Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:21:17 +0000 > >Cool, great :) > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > From tss@iki.fi Wed Jun 9 19:59:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E803A689B for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4lyFGqlbSmVY for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA8C3A6894 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omppu.lan (bl4-153-242.dsl.telepac.pt [81.193.153.242]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00EE716471E1; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 05:59:51 +0300 (EEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Timo Sirainen In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:59:45 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <13785CAE-090F-4E69-81D1-476E5ED364F9@iki.fi> References: To: John C Klensin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Cc: Shawn Steele , ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] So what's the status of the drafts :) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 02:59:53 -0000 On 9.6.2010, at 21.46, John C Klensin wrote: > I've asked Jiankang and Joseph to start working on scheduling > and an agenda for Maastricht. I expect to have a preliminary > draft of "framework" to YangWoo within the next week and posted > not long thereafter. I know I haven't been here for very long, but could someone give me some = kind of an URL/thread pointer to what the new goal is supposed to be = like? The main thing I gathered from the agenda update was: > Work will therefore reflect a "no fallback" approach. =20 =46rom what I understand, it means if the message has been sent in = UTF-8, it means that's the way it's going to show up for client as well = is going to be UTF-8, or otherwise it wouldn't have been accepted at = all. Is that correct? That seems quite unrealistic, given IMAP's = possibility of retrieving contents for many different clients. And = especially if you think of what the currently most commonly used IMAP = clients are. Did I miss something? Personally I'm mostly interested in the IMAP part, but I'm not opposed = to other parts of the specification either. I just don't really see what = the problem is here. Why do people want to change something that has = worked quite well for a decade or two? BTW. I'll most likely be in Maastricht. From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Wed Jun 9 21:20:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1808C3A6809 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:20:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.051 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.051 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.052, BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LykHD15Q9Vyo for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00243A6831 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.7.153) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:20:24 -0700 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC139.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.7.48]) by TK5EX14HUBC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.7.153]) with mapi id 14.01.0160.007; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:20:24 -0700 From: Shawn Steele To: Timo Sirainen , John C Klensin Thread-Topic: [EAI] So what's the status of the drafts :) Thread-Index: AcsICZAvCoeFTLt+ShqyRVOIDWpz2AARewOAAA0KwYD//6Co0g== Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 04:18:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <13785CAE-090F-4E69-81D1-476E5ED364F9@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <13785CAE-090F-4E69-81D1-476E5ED364F9@iki.fi> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] So what's the status of the drafts :) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 04:20:24 -0000 > Why do people want to change something that has worked quite well for a d= ecade or two? Unless you live in China or somewhere else you have to use a foreign script= for your email address. (Just think if you had to type your address in Cy= rillic or Chinese.) If the header's UTF-8, the rest of the body may as well be UTF-8, but most = clients accept UTF-8 encoded mail now anyway? (I think?) So UTF-8 shouldn= 't be a barrier here. -Shawn= From jyee@ca.afilias.info Thu Jun 10 09:47:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559C328C114 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XNHxdnk0OWL0 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821983A699D for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OMkuE-0007jb-3v for ima@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:47:02 +0000 Received: from tor-gateway.afilias.info ([199.15.87.4] helo=jyee-lt.tor.afilias-int.info) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OMkuE-0006ac-6p for ima@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:47:02 +0000 From: Joseph Yee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:47:01 -0400 Message-Id: <72DDA824-4A6A-45C5-8D18-0C3A4089E156@ca.afilias.info> To: "ima@ietf.org WG" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) Subject: [EAI] EAI in Maastricht X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:47:01 -0000 All, A new meeting session request has just been submitted. Please comment for changes before Monday June 14, 2010 12:00 (noon) US = Pacific Time. Thanks Joseph --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: eai Area Name: Applications Area Session Requester: Joseph Yee Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim Second Priority: enum smime dnsop Special Requests: additional 1st priority conflicts to avoid: newprep urnbis ftpbis additional 2nd priority conflict to avoid: all other APP area WGs and = BOFs --------------------------------------------------------- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Fri Jun 11 10:00:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDF63A6A04 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:00:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LMHcKENZQdEw for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162293A69C8 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.142] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:00:18 +0100 Message-ID: <4C126B98.5000409@isode.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:00:08 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Joseph Yee References: <72DDA824-4A6A-45C5-8D18-0C3A4089E156@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <72DDA824-4A6A-45C5-8D18-0C3A4089E156@ca.afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI in Maastricht X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:00:17 -0000 Joseph Yee wrote: >All, > > Hi Joseph, >A new meeting session request has just been submitted. > >Please comment for changes before Monday June 14, 2010 12:00 (noon) US Pacific Time. > >Thanks >Joseph > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Working Group Name: eai >Area Name: Applications Area >Session Requester: Joseph Yee > >Number of Sessions: 1 >Length of Session(s): 2 hours > > >Number of Attendees: 50 >Conflicts to Avoid: > First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim > hybi and httpbis are first priority conflicts for me. vwrap is a conflict for Barry. Can you include them? > Second Priority: enum smime dnsop > Can you add vcarddav and decade as a second priority conflict? >Special Requests: >additional 1st priority conflicts to avoid: newprep urnbis ftpbis >additional 2nd priority conflict to avoid: all other APP area WGs and BOFs >--------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From klensin@jck.com Fri Jun 11 10:29:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47133A6A1F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:29:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.113 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.114, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JKgLlfHtDyEW for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C907C3A6A1D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ON82s-000E7N-Gx; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:29:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:29:29 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Alexey Melnikov , Joseph Yee Message-ID: <8E29832FCAACBE09F10E769E@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <4C126B98.5000409@isode.com> References: <72DDA824-4A6A-45C5-8D18-0C3A4089E156@ca.afilias.info> <4C126B98.5000409@isode.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: "ima@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI in Maastricht X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:29:32 -0000 --On Friday, June 11, 2010 18:00 +0100 Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Joseph Yee wrote: > >> All, >> >> > Hi Joseph, > >> A new meeting session request has just been submitted. >> >> Please comment for changes before Monday June 14, 2010 12:00 >> (noon) US Pacific Time. >> >> Thanks >> Joseph >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> Working Group Name: eai >> Area Name: Applications Area >> Session Requester: Joseph Yee >> >> Number of Sessions: 1 >> Length of Session(s): 2 hours >> >> >> Number of Attendees: 50 >> Conflicts to Avoid: >> First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl >> dkim >> > hybi and httpbis are first priority conflicts for me. > vwrap is a conflict for Barry. > Can you include them? I'm a little confused about where we are right now (e.g., where the "special requests" list ranks relative to the "first and second priority" lists), but urnbis is a first priority conflict for me (I'm chairing it). newprep is fairly close to first priority for me because of the IDNA2008 relationship and knowledge base. Patrik or Pete might be able to substitute for me in newprep, but note that Pete is an author in EAI so that is presumably a high-priority conflict for him too. And ftpbis is a first priority conflict for Barry and me (he is chairing it and, having pushed for it and done the first draft of the charter, I'm pretty implicated). So, adding my list to Alexey's and the list above, I get First priority (in no particular order): apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim hybi httpbis vwrap urnbis ftpbis "newprep" Second Priority: enum smime dnsop vcarddav decade all other APP area WGs and BOFs I hope I'm wrong, but that long a conflict list may steer us into a fairly inconvenient meeting time. Folks should plan travel accordingly or try to defer locking down travel plans until there is a fairly firm draft meeting agenda and schedule. john From jyee@ca.afilias.info Fri Jun 11 11:45:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEA028C129 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:45:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dQh2YAm+4Nm2 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB72928C0FC for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joseph Yee In-Reply-To: <8E29832FCAACBE09F10E769E@PST.JCK.COM> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:45:25 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <72DDA824-4A6A-45C5-8D18-0C3A4089E156@ca.afilias.info> <4C126B98.5000409@isode.com> <8E29832FCAACBE09F10E769E@PST.JCK.COM> To: "ima@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Authenticated: True Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI in Maastricht X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:45:26 -0000 All, Below is the revised session request, adding working group requested by = Alexey and confirmed the BoF group name to avoid. Newprep will change its name soon, and will update the request when its = name is available from the form. Joseph /* An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Joseph Yee, a working group chair of eai. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: eai Area Name: Applications Area Session Requester: Joseph Yee Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim hybi = httpbis vwrap Second Priority: enum smime dnsop vcarddav decade BOF or IRTF Session: ftpext bof, urnbis bof Special Requests: additional 1st priority conflicts to avoid: newprep, urnbis bof, ftpext = bof additional 2nd priority conflict to avoid: all other APP area WGs and = BOFs --------------------------------------------------------- */ On 2010-06-11, at 1:29 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >=20 >=20 > --On Friday, June 11, 2010 18:00 +0100 Alexey Melnikov > wrote: >=20 >> Joseph Yee wrote: >>=20 >>> All, >>>=20 >>>=20 >> Hi Joseph, >>=20 >>> A new meeting session request has just been submitted. >>>=20 >>> Please comment for changes before Monday June 14, 2010 12:00 >>> (noon) US Pacific Time. >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>> Joseph >>>=20 >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> Working Group Name: eai >>> Area Name: Applications Area >>> Session Requester: Joseph Yee >>>=20 >>> Number of Sessions: 1 >>> Length of Session(s): 2 hours >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Number of Attendees: 50 >>> Conflicts to Avoid: >>> First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl >>> dkim >>>=20 >> hybi and httpbis are first priority conflicts for me. >> vwrap is a conflict for Barry. >> Can you include them? >=20 > I'm a little confused about where we are right now (e.g., where > the "special requests" list ranks relative to the "first and > second priority" lists), but urnbis is a first priority conflict > for me (I'm chairing it). newprep is fairly close to first > priority for me because of the IDNA2008 relationship and > knowledge base. Patrik or Pete might be able to substitute for > me in newprep, but note that Pete is an author in EAI so that is > presumably a high-priority conflict for him too. And ftpbis is > a first priority conflict for Barry and me (he is chairing it > and, having pushed for it and done the first draft of the > charter, I'm pretty implicated). So, adding my list to Alexey's > and the list above, I get=20 >=20 > First priority (in no particular order):=20 > apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim > hybi httpbis vwrap urnbis ftpbis "newprep" >=20 >=20 > Second Priority: > enum smime dnsop vcarddav decade=20 > all other APP area WGs and BOFs >=20 > I hope I'm wrong, but that long a conflict list may steer us > into a fairly inconvenient meeting time. Folks should plan > travel accordingly or try to defer locking down travel plans > until there is a fairly firm draft meeting agenda and schedule. >=20 > john >=20 From jyee@ca.afilias.info Sun Jun 13 20:42:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14963A67B6 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:42:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b2KFDNj33IpH for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10653A67A3 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joseph Yee In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:42:57 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <72DDA824-4A6A-45C5-8D18-0C3A4089E156@ca.afilias.info> <4C126B98.5000409@isode.com> <8E29832FCAACBE09F10E769E@PST.JCK.COM> To: "ima@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Authenticated: True Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI in Maastricht -- reminder X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 03:42:58 -0000 A kind reminder to all please comment change before June 14 12:00 (noon) = US Pacific time. thanks. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: eai Area Name: Applications Area Session Requester: Joseph Yee Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim hybi = httpbis vwrap precis Second Priority: enum smime dnsop vcarddav decade BOF or IRTF Session: ftpext bof, urnbis bof Special Requests: additional 2nd priority conflict to avoid: all other APP area WGs and = BOFs --------------------------------------------------------- On 2010-06-11, at 2:45 PM, Joseph Yee wrote: > All, >=20 > Below is the revised session request, adding working group requested = by Alexey and confirmed the BoF group name to avoid. >=20 > Newprep will change its name soon, and will update the request when = its name is available from the form. >=20 > Joseph >=20 > /* > An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted > by Joseph Yee, a working group chair of eai. >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > Working Group Name: eai > Area Name: Applications Area > Session Requester: Joseph Yee >=20 > Number of Sessions: 1 > Length of Session(s): 2 hours >=20 >=20 > Number of Attendees: 50 > Conflicts to Avoid: > First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim hybi = httpbis vwrap > Second Priority: enum smime dnsop vcarddav decade > BOF or IRTF Session: ftpext bof, urnbis bof >=20 > Special Requests: > additional 1st priority conflicts to avoid: newprep, urnbis bof, = ftpext bof > additional 2nd priority conflict to avoid: all other APP area WGs and = BOFs > --------------------------------------------------------- > */ >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 2010-06-11, at 1:29 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --On Friday, June 11, 2010 18:00 +0100 Alexey Melnikov >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Joseph Yee wrote: >>>=20 >>>> All, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>> Hi Joseph, >>>=20 >>>> A new meeting session request has just been submitted. >>>>=20 >>>> Please comment for changes before Monday June 14, 2010 12:00 >>>> (noon) US Pacific Time. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks >>>> Joseph >>>>=20 >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Working Group Name: eai >>>> Area Name: Applications Area >>>> Session Requester: Joseph Yee >>>>=20 >>>> Number of Sessions: 1 >>>> Length of Session(s): 2 hours >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Number of Attendees: 50 >>>> Conflicts to Avoid: >>>> First Priority: apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl >>>> dkim >>>>=20 >>> hybi and httpbis are first priority conflicts for me. >>> vwrap is a conflict for Barry. >>> Can you include them? >>=20 >> I'm a little confused about where we are right now (e.g., where >> the "special requests" list ranks relative to the "first and >> second priority" lists), but urnbis is a first priority conflict >> for me (I'm chairing it). newprep is fairly close to first >> priority for me because of the IDNA2008 relationship and >> knowledge base. Patrik or Pete might be able to substitute for >> me in newprep, but note that Pete is an author in EAI so that is >> presumably a high-priority conflict for him too. And ftpbis is >> a first priority conflict for Barry and me (he is chairing it >> and, having pushed for it and done the first draft of the >> charter, I'm pretty implicated). So, adding my list to Alexey's >> and the list above, I get=20 >>=20 >> First priority (in no particular order):=20 >> apparea iri morg sieve yam marf dnsext sasl dkim >> hybi httpbis vwrap urnbis ftpbis "newprep" >>=20 >>=20 >> Second Priority: >> enum smime dnsop vcarddav decade=20 >> all other APP area WGs and BOFs >>=20 >> I hope I'm wrong, but that long a conflict list may steer us >> into a fairly inconvenient meeting time. Folks should plan >> travel accordingly or try to defer locking down travel plans >> until there is a fairly firm draft meeting agenda and schedule. >>=20 >> john >>=20 >=20 From klensin@jck.com Fri Jun 25 07:31:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0393A679F for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:31:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.197, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oy1ob+RgphOP for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425C03A694A for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1OS9vt-000Mj9-7i for ima@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:31:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:31:04 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: EAI WG Message-ID: <5FAFDB6549DCC687942F70A0@PST.JCK.COM> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [EAI] Document and IETF Status X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:31:33 -0000 Hi. Just to synchronize... Initial versions of RFC4952bis (Framework) and 5536bis (SMTP extension) should be posted later today (at least "today" in my time zone). Abel has committed to having 5535bis (Headers) follow on Monday. If people actually look at these, make specific comments as appropriate, and stay focused, we should be able to have revised versions of all three up before the posting deadline and an agenda for Maastricht that focuses on specific outstanding issues. My expectation is to be able to move 4952bis off to WG Last Call and then to the IESG shortly after Maastricht (already a few weeks late -- we had planned on being able to hand it off before or during IETF 78) but I still hope we can converge very quickly on it. Note that 4952bis contains a number of questions to the WG about what is wanted and how it should be organized. We will need answers to those questions --ideally consensus answers-- to move forward (even to a -01 draft). Silence will probably be taken as consent to whatever the editors feel like doing (and we may not tell you in advance). The situation with the other documents is much less attractive: (1) draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist (a first charter leftover) has been waiting for a revised version of the draft since April 7. Randy? Pete? (2) We don't have editors clearly signed up for _any_ of the other documents listed in the charter. We would like to hear from folks very soon as to whether they are willing to continue and to meet on the schedules shown in the charter or, if not, how they suggest proceeding. Everyone should be aware that, no matter how important this work is, the WG cannot make progress (and probably won't last long) if there are insufficient resources to complete it in a timely fashion, Finally, for those of you who have seen the preliminary agenda/schedule for IETF78: Please don't make plans on the assumption that EAI will remain in the Tuesday morning slot that is now allocated. Scheduling is very tight and difficult this time. As a WG that hasn't been getting a lot of work done, we are extremely vunerable to cuts in the length of time allotted and the time at which we are scheduled. We could easily end up on Thursday or even on Friday afternoon. The main mechanism for avoiding such moves in the future is to be really, visibly, productive :-( john From root@core3.amsl.com Fri Jun 25 11:00:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id A55693A681E; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100625180001.A55693A681E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:00:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : SMTP Extension for Internationalized Email Address Author(s) : J. Yao, W. MAO Filename : draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2010-6-25 This document specifies an SMTP extension for transport and delivery of email messages with internationalized email addresses or header information. Communication with systems that do not implement this specification is specified in another document. This document updates some syntaxes and rules defined in RFC 2821 and RFC 2822. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-6-25105048.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From root@core3.amsl.com Fri Jun 25 12:00:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id B0AFC3A68C6; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100625190001.B0AFC3A68C6@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:00:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email Author(s) : J. Klensin, Y. Ko Filename : draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-00.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2010-06-25 Full use of electronic mail throughout the world requires that, subject to other constraints, people be able to use close variations on their own names, written correctly in their own languages and scripts, as mailbox names in email addresses. This document introduces a series of specifications that define mechanisms and protocol extensions needed to fully support internationalized email addresses. These changes include an SMTP extension and extension of email header syntax to accommodate UTF-8 data. The document set also includes discussion of key assumptions and issues in deploying fully internationalized email. This document is an update of RFC 4952 that reflects additional issues identified since that document was published. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-06-25114741.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From sm@resistor.net Sat Jun 26 15:38:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685663A687A for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:38:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.462, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GhJpmyUL6D21 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656DA3A6821 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.5.Alpha0/8.14.5.Alpha0) with ESMTP id o5QMcDud019830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1277591920; x=1277678320; bh=D9kkeyNEpzr66lOWmrt+uRgQayZVj5LgLpNSIpE+rVs=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=WuMJFzfpFnw2G0QxNsaBxNyJgJ8K8XMG/ka3A79QRLx56xMoTgsyw+m/SJag145AM mv9qFORHz8HD3hfYI2ifmE7S+uUaVdgrN83sf4TSBZSdDpSSczTRllHOfxzvVDx8/5 NkbG5961snxpM3M4HcmRYhRH2XCT+bbzv782G2Dc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1277591920; x=1277678320; bh=D9kkeyNEpzr66lOWmrt+uRgQayZVj5LgLpNSIpE+rVs=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=RfGNPeXSYcBjR47TuyJxh7jm/Gs8EP49HoYo1wDg92Y18xz+MnzLjdpjbe8dBMjWf 6QocjsVG0vNqiyXz0GW6RnyWh1V97YQKP9RtotJ461XRWYzbldfsGC8qnN3e7+NvFf jyS0chsxdmPU07fXwvTOu57XnBGWAW8VM2ZgF2G0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=q2zs5++gW8NJmMiE8S1nT6XHXPRiB7YgPsG4GTaLlOjA4XOEP+/njME+DMCsaRHcu SGKOc3MBte+Mh9SCpVLiudRUk291I3Ti1d93a+Wd7cZJMsIR8Rspe6YyCJ5FemTaBv+ 2ALEMYatOT2bHQ0xsTdvRqSwX/giQUL/lsR0EKw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20100626145920.0b610618@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:38:01 -0700 To: ima@ietf.org From: SM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 22:38:45 -0000 Hello, I have a few comments about draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00. I'm posting them to EAI to get the discussion started. Please change the Updates and references to RFC 5321 and RFC 5322. In Section 3.1: 'The EHLO keyword value associated with this extension is "UTF8SMTPbis".' I suggest dropping the "bis" and choosing something like "UTF8". "Servers offering this extension MUST provide support for, and announce, the 8BITMIME extension [RFC1652]" Please update the reference for RFC1652 to draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-03. In Section 3.2: "If the original client submits a message to a Message Submission Server ("MSA") [RFC4409], it is the responsibility of the MSA that all domain labels are valid; otherwise, it is the original client's responsibility." Is the "original client" a SMTP Client or a MUA? "It may find an alternate route to the destination that permits UTF8SMTPbis. That route may be discovered by trying alternate Mail eXchanger (MX) hosts (using preference rules as specified in RFC 2821) or using other means available to the SMTP-sender." What is the SMTP-sender? In Section 3.4: 'When messages are rejected for other reasons, such as the MAIL command requiring an ASCII address, the response code 550 is used with the meaning "mailbox unavailable".' Is this a policy decision? RFC 5336 registered the UTF8SMTP keyword. There should be a note in the IANA Considerations Section to deprecate it. Regards, -sm From klensin@jck.com Sat Jun 26 16:17:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD0B43A68A2 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 16:17:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.210, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E7PhyGZNAOva for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34D53A688C for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1OSecs-000Hrm-31; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:17:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:17:29 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: SM , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <6785AF47EC3ACD933037ABE5@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100626145920.0b610618@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20100626145920.0b610618@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 23:17:24 -0000 --On Saturday, June 26, 2010 15:38 -0700 SM wrote: > Hello, > > I have a few comments about draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00. I'm > posting them to EAI to get the discussion started. >... > In Section 3.1: > > 'The EHLO keyword value associated with this extension is > "UTF8SMTPbis".' > > I suggest dropping the "bis" and choosing something like > "UTF8". I have asked that we defer the discussion of what keyword to choose until near the end of our process. If we need to review the reasons why a change is needed, that is open for discussion now. But, if we are to change it, I believe we should do a late binding on that decision (which affects Framework as well as SMTP). There are two reasons: (1) We could waste a lot of time on this now, only to almost certainly have to revisit it later as someone shows up with a better idea. (2) Doing a late binding on the keyword will considerably lower the odds that someone will implement to what they think we are going to do, develop something that doesn't interoperate, but still use the same keyword because they knew (at least) what that was going to be. > "Servers offering this extension MUST provide support for, > and > announce, the 8BITMIME extension [RFC1652]" > > Please update the reference for RFC1652 to > draft-ietf-yam-rfc1652bis-03. >... For these and others, let's make sure we remember (the Nits checker will presumably do that for us, but not actually make changes until it is absolutely, 100%, clear that 1652bis will be published. In particular note that, while it is in the RFC Editor queue, it is stuck in MISSREF waiting on 5321bis and 5322bis, for neither of which there is even an active I-D yet (I expect that will be cured for one or both before IETF 78, but one should not count on that until it happens). Also note that if the IESG, in its wisdom, approves draft-housley-two-maturity-levels in the next month or two, the YAM WG enters the "overtaken by events" stage and 5321bis and 5322bis (and probably even the supposedly-approved 1652bis) become more effort than they are worth to finish. Having the distinction of being the last full standards approved by the IETF under a set of rules that are being phased out does not seem to me to be likely to be treated by the responsible editors as worth the trouble. That is, of course, just my opinion. >... > RFC 5336 registered the UTF8SMTP keyword. There should be a > note in the IANA Considerations Section to deprecate it. Yes. best, john From sm@resistor.net Sat Jun 26 17:57:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6518D3A68C1 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.366 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.626, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id veG02ASJQWLB for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC2A3A67CF for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.5.Alpha0/8.14.5.Alpha0) with ESMTP id o5R0vL1I014669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1277600253; x=1277686653; bh=sFYok9E7ZwWcNfEjq5k9KLWlh6rzCO73qQbDDcJeEiw=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=UG3JQ8MG6g0L36z1tvQytRb9IRvNgllOyAQbV4S1Y/DJnGnH+JbbuAIGu6GqQa9D/ nY0c6saJqcC/hc2a0aR70HfYECuOw/gUh4dJex7P+9tPwmXgYgc/kSc+4b14awfZTP PbybyaPVXmp8OtIniLGMqAQF5OFJzbtpimeSJCaw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1277600253; x=1277686653; bh=sFYok9E7ZwWcNfEjq5k9KLWlh6rzCO73qQbDDcJeEiw=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=XKGedG377tITSRRJC8E/hxo7La3iYeu7wYfreQtG0wYbWGBa40EqcXwgsTbILwKEB xzDi4MmZWf9mKGcVmmqhCvr5A7nXcWUAcYhyvPSR9PlOIr/iV0bAEoowFmEGxIf7bu 3GmVIdddc7SwOtyJ1ZZeB/W4Y0se3jb5JTBrf4js= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=0dkfD/lMeABHF2RPKCDNAzNr63FZGZ7i+u+9hq+ptZtd0vvIujn2D4v+PN8VPhgE+ 3GAuJJFw5dGfEWAeXBJf9Qjo/lBuu79rGZqFyOpD8r8r5OrmdXbvVx4Fv7hBDk1ozLJ UZLtpQkZCssWnxYakw1GQgjJ6o8tI23SgOmLeaA= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20100626173821.0b374a90@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:54:01 -0700 To: John C Klensin From: SM In-Reply-To: <6785AF47EC3ACD933037ABE5@PST.JCK.COM> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20100626145920.0b610618@elandnews.com> <6785AF47EC3ACD933037ABE5@PST.JCK.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:57:30 -0000 Hi John, At 16:17 26-06-10, John C Klensin wrote: >I have asked that we defer the discussion of what keyword to >choose until near the end of our process. If we need to review Sorry about that. I read your message and forgot about that when I wrote the comments. >the reasons why a change is needed, that is open for discussion >now. But, if we are to change it, I believe we should do a late >binding on that decision (which affects Framework as well as >SMTP). There are two reasons: > >(1) We could waste a lot of time on this now, only to almost >certainly have to revisit it later as someone shows up with a >better idea. > >(2) Doing a late binding on the keyword will considerably lower >the odds that someone will implement to what they think we are >going to do, develop something that doesn't interoperate, but >still use the same keyword because they knew (at least) what >that was going to be. Agreed. >For these and others, let's make sure we remember (the Nits >checker will presumably do that for us, but not actually make >changes until it is absolutely, 100%, clear that 1652bis will be >published. In particular note that, while it is in the RFC >Editor queue, it is stuck in MISSREF waiting on 5321bis and >5322bis, for neither of which there is even an active I-D yet (I >expect that will be cured for one or both before IETF 78, but >one should not count on that until it happens). Also note that >if the IESG, in its wisdom, approves >draft-housley-two-maturity-levels in the next month or two, the >YAM WG enters the "overtaken by events" stage and 5321bis and >5322bis (and probably even the supposedly-approved 1652bis) >become more effort than they are worth to finish. Having the >distinction of being the last full standards approved by the >IETF under a set of rules that are being phased out does not >seem to me to be likely to be treated by the responsible editors >as worth the trouble. That is, of course, just my opinion. I don't know what will happen to the maturity levels. The MISSREF could be cleared. The safe bet is to go with your approach. I read draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-00. Section 11 is a good piece of work. Regards, -sm From root@core3.amsl.com Sun Jun 27 07:30:08 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietf.org Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id A4D9B3A68F6; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 07:30:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100627143007.A4D9B3A68F6@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 07:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-07.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:30:08 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : Mailing Lists and Internationalized Email Addresses Author(s) : R. Gellens Filename : draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-07.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2010-06-27 This document describes considerations for mailing lists with the introduction of internationalized email addresses. This document makes some specific recommendations on how mailing lists should act in various situations. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-07.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-06-27072745.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From yaojk@cnnic.cn Mon Jun 28 01:32:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D25E28C0E8 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2010 01:32:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.715 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.715 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.158, BAYES_50=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DVHTDwaZEUQa for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2010 01:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A83D83A699C for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2010 01:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:32:05 +0800 Message-ID: <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:32:05 +0800 Message-ID: <9E4DCA148B3C45A88671588FB4FEFCA4@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Jiankang YAO" To: , "SM" References: <477591928.10174@cnnic.cn> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:32:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 08:32:16 -0000 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIlNNIiA8c21AcmVzaXN0b3Iu bmV0Pg0KVG86IDxpbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpDYzogIkppYW5rYW5nIFlBTyIgPHlhb2prQGNubmlj LmNuPjsgIldlaSBNQU8iIDxtYW93ZWlfaWV0ZkBjbm5pYy5jbj4NClNlbnQ6IFN1bmRheSwgSnVu ZSAyNywgMjAxMCA2OjM4IEFNDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBDb21tZW50cyBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWVhaS1y ZmM1MzM2YmlzLTAwDQoNCg0KPiBIZWxsbywNCj4gDQo+IEkgaGF2ZSBhIGZldyBjb21tZW50cyBh Ym91dCBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWVhaS1yZmM1MzM2YmlzLTAwLiAgSSdtIA0KPiBwb3N0aW5nIHRoZW0g dG8gRUFJIHRvIGdldCB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBzdGFydGVkLg0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIGNoYW5n ZSB0aGUgVXBkYXRlcyBhbmQgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyB0byBSRkMgNTMyMSBhbmQgUkZDIDUzMjIuDQo+ IA0KPiBJbiBTZWN0aW9uIDMuMToNCj4gDQo+ICAgICdUaGUgRUhMTyBrZXl3b3JkIHZhbHVlIGFz c29jaWF0ZWQgd2l0aCB0aGlzIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBpcw0KPiAgICAiVVRGOFNNVFBiaXMiLicNCj4g DQo+IEkgc3VnZ2VzdCBkcm9wcGluZyB0aGUgImJpcyIgYW5kIGNob29zaW5nIHNvbWV0aGluZyBs aWtlICJVVEY4Ii4NCj4gDQo+ICAgIlNlcnZlcnMgb2ZmZXJpbmcgdGhpcyBleHRlbnNpb24gTVVT VCBwcm92aWRlIHN1cHBvcnQgZm9yLCBhbmQNCj4gICAgYW5ub3VuY2UsIHRoZSA4QklUTUlNRSBl eHRlbnNpb24gW1JGQzE2NTJdIg0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGZv ciBSRkMxNjUyIHRvIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYteWFtLXJmYzE2NTJiaXMtMDMuDQo+IA0KDQppZiB3ZSBj aGFuZ2UgaXQgdG8gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi15YW0tcmZjMTY1MmJpcy0wMywgd2UgbXVzdCB3YWl0IGZv ciB0aGF0IGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KDQo+IEluIFNlY3Rpb24gMy4yOg0KPiANCj4gICAiSWYgdGhlIG9y aWdpbmFsIGNsaWVudCBzdWJtaXRzIGEgbWVzc2FnZSB0byBhIE1lc3NhZ2UgU3VibWlzc2lvbg0K PiAgICBTZXJ2ZXIgKCJNU0EiKSBbUkZDNDQwOV0sIGl0IGlzIHRoZSByZXNwb25zaWJpbGl0eSBv ZiB0aGUgTVNBDQo+ICAgIHRoYXQgYWxsIGRvbWFpbiBsYWJlbHMgYXJlIHZhbGlkOyBvdGhlcndp c2UsIGl0IGlzIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbA0KPiAgICBjbGllbnQncyByZXNwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4iDQo+ IA0KPiBJcyB0aGUgIm9yaWdpbmFsIGNsaWVudCIgYSBTTVRQIENsaWVudCBvciBhIE1VQT8NCg0K SSBwcm9wb3NlIHRvICBjaGFuZ2UgaXQgdG8gIk1VQSINCg0KPiANCj4gICAiSXQgbWF5IGZpbmQg YW4gYWx0ZXJuYXRlIHJvdXRlIHRvIHRoZSBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbiB0aGF0IHBlcm1pdHMNCj4gICAg VVRGOFNNVFBiaXMuICBUaGF0IHJvdXRlIG1heSBiZSBkaXNjb3ZlcmVkIGJ5IHRyeWluZyBhbHRl cm5hdGUNCj4gICAgTWFpbCBlWGNoYW5nZXIgKE1YKSBob3N0cyAodXNpbmcgcHJlZmVyZW5jZSBy dWxlcyBhcyBzcGVjaWZpZWQgaW4NCj4gICAgUkZDIDI4MjEpIG9yIHVzaW5nIG90aGVyIG1lYW5z IGF2YWlsYWJsZSB0byB0aGUgU01UUC1zZW5kZXIuIg0KPiANCj4gV2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgU01UUC1z ZW5kZXI/DQoNCkkgcHJvcG9zZSB0byAgY2hhbmdlIGl0IHRvICJTTVRQLWNsaWVudCBvciBNU0Ei DQoNCj4gDQo+IEluIFNlY3Rpb24gMy40Og0KPiANCj4gICAnV2hlbiBtZXNzYWdlcyBhcmUgcmVq ZWN0ZWQgZm9yIG90aGVyIHJlYXNvbnMsIHN1Y2ggYXMNCj4gICAgdGhlIE1BSUwgY29tbWFuZCBy ZXF1aXJpbmcgYW4gQVNDSUkgYWRkcmVzcywgdGhlIHJlc3BvbnNlIGNvZGUgNTUwIGlzDQo+ICAg IHVzZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgbWVhbmluZyAibWFpbGJveCB1bmF2YWlsYWJsZSIuJw0KPiANCj4gSXMg dGhpcyBhIHBvbGljeSBkZWNpc2lvbj8NCg0KeWVzDQoNCg0KPiANCj4gUkZDIDUzMzYgcmVnaXN0 ZXJlZCB0aGUgVVRGOFNNVFAga2V5d29yZC4gIFRoZXJlIHNob3VsZCBiZSBhIG5vdGUgaW4gDQo+ IHRoZSBJQU5BIENvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25zIFNlY3Rpb24gdG8gZGVwcmVjYXRlIGl0Lg0KPiANCg0K KzENCg0KPiBSZWdhcmRzLA0KPiAtc20NCj4= From sm@resistor.net Wed Jun 30 13:43:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFA73A6ADF for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:43:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.036 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.036 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.851, BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NbHCUAhmtZvS for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003C23A6AE1 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.5.Alpha0/8.14.5.Alpha0) with ESMTP id o5UKhJBx002374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:43:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1277930609; x=1278017009; bh=BM+W7DYuWgyCtIFLmTt0lNEOUV6tYKznZzkCS9sobXU=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=K1yRYCuMlC5p76B5hLE0FMvMPU9S+/UDwMZUOkIVQmeoJ3j2mMM4GXGVy+KigJLCP 4Di4hbQIdhqXou53DbPVz5usgi/gQSEBHPHJ3aJ393oMyY6g/g7OKkartDEYGI0ILr cirpq7hhU/ge48t35gQXxKRFfhadavJ4xdqViJDg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1277930609; x=1278017009; bh=BM+W7DYuWgyCtIFLmTt0lNEOUV6tYKznZzkCS9sobXU=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Cc; b=dtEAf8joY3XswdH0H7m+UItHK/Df2lt+XejavkQ7dk4RlHCNX7twZKFuG9mo06Opk ArjkCrGEFGmE8VLXW6IJI6t2ReuxY8jiEhrck7BAsvwYYAmSzxqeLScmRbdBY/+J0p /AWhcK19Hqd/OYdq9m9vHShtc2AwNg+7QkaaeEDI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=5BWXNwSvKKbW57dXw0b6h7L5BC0nfrhauMCFX4SRGXnUyBaDcqgoOW9v4k6SvOqpG FHAKvUCuqvaqbUCGuN6R+bouwVY6NuL6JJxxAfocGCV9kuuM0KYifF1OJ6A6STW3tuv LINn8qVPAWUdj8I5avdYQrU/W7j7OVpHnZy8DVQ= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:42:58 -0700 To: Jiankang YAO From: SM In-Reply-To: <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> References: <477591928.10174@cnnic.cn> <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:43:26 -0000 Hi Jiankang, At 01:32 28-06-10, Jiankang YAO wrote: >I propose to change it to "MUA" We may see the UTF8SMTP extension in two places, the MTA and the MSA. The MSA can apply several fixes or checks to ensure that the message going through MTAs are well-formed. I'll rewrite that sentence in Section 3.2 with the word "MUA": "If the MUA submits a message to a Message Submission Server ("MSA") [RFC4409], it is the responsibility of the MSA that all domain labels are valid; otherwise, it is the MUA's responsibility." Do we assume that all messages are submitted through a MSA? If so, we can push all responsibility to the MSA. We then specify what changes or verification should be done at the MSA. > > "It may find an alternate route to the destination that permits > > UTF8SMTPbis. That route may be discovered by trying alternate > > Mail eXchanger (MX) hosts (using preference rules as specified in > > RFC 2821) or using other means available to the SMTP-sender." > > > > What is the SMTP-sender? > >I propose to change it to "SMTP-client or MSA" If I recall correctly, the discussion was about the case where we have two more MX hosts and not all of them supported the UTF8SMTP extension. It should be SMTP Client instead of "SMTP-server". Regards, -sm From klensin@jck.com Wed Jun 30 14:05:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D14B3A6B1E for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:05:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.095, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qIh3V19q8SUy for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7D73A6B1D for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1OU4TC-000GIw-9x; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:05:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:05:21 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: SM , Jiankang YAO Message-ID: <47392D3B56E58ABC24AAB021@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> References: <477591928.10174@cnnic.cn> <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:05:17 -0000 --On Wednesday, June 30, 2010 13:42 -0700 SM wrote: > Hi Jiankang, > At 01:32 28-06-10, Jiankang YAO wrote: >> I propose to change it to "MUA" > > We may see the UTF8SMTP extension in two places, the MTA and > the MSA. The MSA can apply several fixes or checks to ensure > that the message going through MTAs are well-formed. I'll > rewrite that sentence in Section 3.2 with the word "MUA": > > "If the MUA submits a message to a Message Submission Server > ("MSA") [RFC4409], it is the responsibility of the MSA that > all domain labels are valid; otherwise, it is the MUA's > responsibility." > > Do we assume that all messages are submitted through a MSA? > If so, we can push all responsibility to the MSA. We then > specify what changes or verification should be done at the MSA. We don't quite, but that can be worked around with a bit of hand waving. For example, putting a sentence indicating that we are treating the first entity that supports an SMTP interface to a full-service SMTP server as an MSA, and describing it in those terms, even if it is fully integrated with the sending MUA, would probably get us past that problem (that wording is almost certainly not exactly right, but some variation on it would probably work). >... john From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Wed Jun 30 17:58:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08953A687D for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:58:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.386 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.177, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PnQaWXMYQK55 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34E43A682D for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.158]) by scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id o610wsvR027871 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:58:55 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 4f00_173f_d23e8cc4_84ab_11df_a751_001d096c566a; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:58:54 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:45107) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:58:55 +0900 Message-ID: <4C2BE83E.4000207@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:58:38 +0900 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst=22?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.4pre) Gecko/20091214 Eudora/3.0b4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SM References: <477591928.10174@cnnic.cn> <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 00:58:50 -0000 On 2010/07/01 5:42, SM wrote: > I'll rewrite that sentence in > Section 3.2 with the word "MUA": > > "If the MUA submits a message to a Message Submission Server > ("MSA") [RFC4409], it is the responsibility of the MSA that > all domain labels are valid; otherwise, it is the MUA's > responsibility." Why: Message Submission Server ("MSA") It would be easier to understand if it were Message Submission Agent ("MSA") or Message Submission Server ("MSS") Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From yaojk@cnnic.cn Wed Jun 30 20:01:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F8F3A68AC for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:01:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.854 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.003, BAYES_50=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aY51S9lIlV-G for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CA563A688D for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (eyou send program); Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:01:53 +0800 Message-ID: <477953313.08193@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:01:53 +0800 Message-ID: <5FC02B2966864977A505B4B06AB18696@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Jiankang YAO" To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_J._D=FCrst=22?= , "SM" References: <477591928.10174@cnnic.cn> <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> <477945937.32700@cnnic.cn> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:02:05 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 03:01:45 -0000 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIiJNYXJ0aW4gSi4gRPxyc3Qi IiA8ZHVlcnN0QGl0LmFveWFtYS5hYy5qcD4NClRvOiAiU00iIDxzbUByZXNpc3Rvci5uZXQ+DQpD YzogIkppYW5rYW5nIFlBTyIgPHlhb2prQGNubmljLmNuPjsgPGltYUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClNlbnQ6 IFRodXJzZGF5LCBKdWx5IDAxLCAyMDEwIDg6NTggQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbRUFJXSBDb21t ZW50cyBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWVhaS1yZmM1MzM2YmlzLTAwDQoNCg0KPiANCj4gT24gMjAxMC8w Ny8wMSA1OjQyLCBTTSB3cm90ZToNCj4+IEknbGwgcmV3cml0ZSB0aGF0IHNlbnRlbmNlIGluDQo+ PiBTZWN0aW9uIDMuMiB3aXRoIHRoZSB3b3JkICJNVUEiOg0KPj4NCj4+ICJJZiB0aGUgTVVBIHN1 Ym1pdHMgYSBtZXNzYWdlIHRvIGEgTWVzc2FnZSBTdWJtaXNzaW9uIFNlcnZlcg0KPj4gKCJNU0Ei KSBbUkZDNDQwOV0sIGl0IGlzIHRoZSByZXNwb25zaWJpbGl0eSBvZiB0aGUgTVNBIHRoYXQNCj4+ IGFsbCBkb21haW4gbGFiZWxzIGFyZSB2YWxpZDsgb3RoZXJ3aXNlLCBpdCBpcyB0aGUgTVVBJ3MN Cj4+IHJlc3BvbnNpYmlsaXR5LiINCj4gDQo+IFdoeTogTWVzc2FnZSBTdWJtaXNzaW9uIFNlcnZl ciAoIk1TQSIpDQo+IEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGVhc2llciB0byB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIGlmIGl0IHdlcmUN Cj4gTWVzc2FnZSBTdWJtaXNzaW9uIEFnZW50ICgiTVNBIikgb3INCg0Kc2VjdGlvbiAxIGluIFJG QyA0NDA5IHNlZW1zIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgIE1lc3NhZ2UgU3VibWlzc2lvbiBBZ2VudCANCg0KPiBN ZXNzYWdlIFN1Ym1pc3Npb24gU2VydmVyICgiTVNTIikNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBSZWdhcmRzLCAgICAg TWFydGluLg0KPiANCj4gLS0gDQo+ICMtIyBNYXJ0aW4gSi4gRPxyc3QsIFByb2Zlc3NvciwgQW95 YW1hIEdha3VpbiBVbml2ZXJzaXR5DQo+ICMtIyBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN3Lml0LmFveWFtYS5hYy5q cCAgIG1haWx0bzpkdWVyc3RAaXQuYW95YW1hLmFjLmpwDQo+ From yangwooko@gmail.com Wed Jun 30 22:05:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFFA3A688A for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rc-EuSAZonL3 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493D63A683E for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iwn40 with SMTP id 40so1730666iwn.31 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:06:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4F4Gu9XOFRq58u6I/AxO1X/qCmcjoqhMeYvMC5b3E58=; b=Xq3L/KHbkiepMBHsTlMdApEzDcct6pGEG4ggnB6kJIrRhL1InJW2cJN5GNK2F1NO+G r56abzIxXaRJCzigW8CFej+18Z+mS2X65NR2jzi88noCNq+oNEKmEVFtAfwvo+6H2htG hTWSrAiSonYoGAfYJOTcR+T18q7HjQg5kCNwM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=sSqB1XjUWuvL7WZa7YZQa3bMiMTd7Itpl5J9UoxuAm7jrrRTKN8zOzO7/6mzie52Fh kiyvPT21MEO7X9y2oYxGNiL3SCWzIhJYcDX5ZAqJsKIgXKXdBcZY+y19LpwwmFvmNu98 g1VWgZB5uP+UDiIFZLUUBk6Nb6BlaigF92myo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.155.131 with SMTP id s3mr9945668ibw.2.1277960769229; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Sender: yangwooko@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.159.148 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:06:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <47392D3B56E58ABC24AAB021@PST.JCK.COM> References: <477591928.10174@cnnic.cn> <477713925.00847@cnnic.cn> <6.2.5.6.2.20100630131825.0bc0a218@resistor.net> <47392D3B56E58ABC24AAB021@PST.JCK.COM> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:06:09 +0900 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Sfxy0BE6eroRdxS7C2ArcQ3T0KU Message-ID: From: Yangwoo Ko To: John C Klensin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Comments on draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-00 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 05:05:59 -0000 On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 6:05 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > > > > > --On Wednesday, June 30, 2010 13:42 -0700 SM > wrote: > >> Hi Jiankang, >> At 01:32 28-06-10, Jiankang YAO wrote: >>> I propose to =C2=A0change it to "MUA" >> >> We may see the UTF8SMTP extension in two places, the MTA and >> the MSA. =C2=A0The MSA can apply several fixes or checks to ensure >> that the message going through MTAs are well-formed. =C2=A0I'll >> rewrite that sentence in Section 3.2 with the word "MUA": >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0"If the MUA submits a message to a Message Submission Serve= r >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ("MSA") [RFC4409], it is the responsibility of the MSA tha= t >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all domain labels are valid; otherwise, it is the MUA's >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 responsibility." >> >> Do we assume that all messages are submitted through a MSA? >> If so, we can push all responsibility to the MSA. =C2=A0We then >> specify what changes or verification should be done at the MSA. > > We don't quite, but that can be worked around with a bit of hand > waving. =C2=A0For example, putting a sentence indicating that we are > treating the first entity that supports an SMTP interface to a > full-service SMTP server as an MSA, and describing it in those > terms, even if it is fully integrated with the sending MUA, > would probably get us past that problem (that wording is almost > certainly not exactly right, but some variation on it would > probably work). Provided that MSA is defined as John suggested, do we still need to mention MUA? I think that it is enough to say that "MSA is responsible for the validity of all domain label." MSA fulfills the responsibility by itself or by enforcing MUA to do so on behalf of MSA. In either case, MSA is responsible. > >>... > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0john > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > --=20 a human / twitter as yangwooko / msn as newcat_kr@yahoo.co.kr / nate as yangwooko@nate.com