From internet-drafts@ietf.org Sun Dec 4 23:02:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A5C1F0C5B; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 23:02:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2apU1KvDto+n; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 23:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4BC21F84B0; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 23:02:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.64 Message-ID: <20111205070204.18545.30525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2011 23:02:04 -0800 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:02:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Wo= rking Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : Pete Resnick Chris Newman Sean Shen Filename : draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2011-12-04 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support UTF-8 encoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This specification replaces RFC 5738. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt From jyee@afilias.info Mon Dec 5 08:25:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE7C21F8C0D for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 08:25:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HDOIiR8NXAny for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 08:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BD921F8AD9 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 08:25:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RXbM5-0002ss-7k for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:25:25 +0000 Received: from mail-vx0-f178.google.com ([209.85.220.178]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RXbM5-0007AU-3s for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:25:25 +0000 Received: by vcbfo11 with SMTP id fo11so4221342vcb.9 for ; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.33.50 with SMTP id o18mr5178809vdi.42.1323102324481; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from jyee-lt.tor.afilias-int.info (tor-gateway.afilias.info. [199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ir2sm17611743vdb.9.2011.12.05.08.25.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:25:23 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Yee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 11:25:20 -0500 To: "ima@ietf.org WG" Message-Id: <2009E47F-1AAF-4771-844B-CC1D0583E0F7@afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [EAI] IETF 82 EAI Minutes uploaded X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:25:27 -0000 All, Minutes for IETF82 uploaded. Available at URL below: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/minutes/eai.txt Text also available below Joseph ----------- Minutes of the EAI working group IETF82, Taipei, TW 2011-11-15 13:00 The chairs called the meeting to order, reminded everyone about the IPR rules and displayed the Note Well notice. They then started an overview of the status of the working group. John Klensin explained some normative-reference problems in the WG set, and the Area Director clarified. It appears these issues are getting sorted out. Assuming this does proceed as expected, the core protocol documents are complete. The room accepted the agenda as posted, and substantive issues were undertaken. The WG turned to the POP3 document (5721bis-02). The editor claimed that it was ready for WGLC. The Chair initiated WGLC in the meeting, and would send the announcement. WGLC concluding on 2011-11-25. The WG turned to the IMAP document (5738bis-01). The editor provided a chart with a summary of the state of the discussion. There was considerable discussion of outstanding issues in the draft, which resulted in some decisions. There was quite contentious discussion about the APPEND command. DECISIONS: - Tentative agreement not to extend LOGIN. - Tentative agreement to remove up-conversion as a requirement. - Apparent agreement to solve issue in section 3.3 by including literals. ACTIONS: - Discussion about APPEND issues on mailing list - Resulting document after 2011-11-25. The WG turned to the POP and IMAP downgrade document. The editor provided an overview of recent changes. There was considerable discussion of the Updates: 5322 tag. The editor outlined a number of issues with Message-Id downgrading. He outlined the treatment of unknown header fields (changed from ENCAPSULATED downgrading to UNSTRUCTURED downgrading), and asked whether the change is ok; there seemed to be no objection. The editor then turned to how to handle the downgraded header fields, as part of the IANA considerations. A chair (Klensin) gave instructions on how to handle the section, replacing experimental fields by taking them out, and not by obsoleting them. This resulted in considerable discussion about IANA issues. The editor turned to some additional items that he'd completed, then listed the things he needs to do and solicited help. He then asked to change "Internationalised Address" ENCODED-WORD "Removed:;" to ENCODED-WORD ":;". This proposal caused some discussion. Some discussion was taken up about whether to make the change about TYPED address DECISIONS: - Tentative agreement to change "Internationalised Address" ENCODED-WORD "Removed:;" to ENCODED-WORD ":;" - Tentative agreement to change from ENCAPSULATED downgrading to UNSTRUCTURED downgrading - Tentative agreement to accept Original-recipient and Final-recipient header processing ACTION: - Proposed text to repair security considerations by end of week (Barry Leiba). - Pete Resnick to decide what to do about IANA considerations for Downgrade headers. [There was some later discussion of some new text needed, but the suggestion went to the mailing list; no actions resulted in the meeting as a result of this discussion.] Chair (Klensin) said that his goal is to have these documents sent to the IESG very soon. The WG turned to the question of mailing lists. There are three possibilities. One is to try to do something about mailing lists. A second is to decide not to do it, and explain to the IESG why not to do it. A third is to write a document that outlines the issues but does not give a lot of advice. ACTION: - John Levine appointed editor for a document outlining what the problems are and arguing that there should not be a standards track document on this topic. The WG turned to the question of "Advice documents". The primary question is whether to take a break and allow deployment experience, or whether to prepare the document set. There was some discussion about the value of some documents of this sort. Jiankang Yao made a presentation arguing that such advice documents are needed. This raised some more discussion of the value of such documents, with the emphasis on getting RFCs or something similarly official into the hands of operators and implementers. There were several suggestions on how to achieve the practical goal of delivering something to people who need something (semi-)official in order to inspire them to implement and deploy. At the end of the discussion, the chairs called for any other business; hearing none, the chairs adjourned the meeting. From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Dec 5 12:32:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EADA11E80D8; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:32:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtRJoddHRBc2; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC60021F8C89; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:32:30 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.64 Message-ID: <20111205203230.25000.33436.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 12:32:30 -0800 Cc: eai mailing list , eai chair , RFC Editor Subject: [EAI] Protocol Action: 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-12.txt) X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:32:32 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email' (draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-12.txt) as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group. Please note that an earlier revision of this document was already approved by the IESG for publication as Informational. As a result of IESG comments during IESG Evaluation of two other EAI documents, the WG felt that they needed to make changes to this document and change its status to Standards Track from Informational. It has now been approved as a Propsed Standard. The IESG contact persons are Pete Resnick and Peter Saint-Andre. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/ Technical Summary Full use of electronic mail throughout the world requires that (subject to other constraints) people be able to use close variations on their own names (written correctly in their own languages and scripts) as mailbox names in email addresses. This document introduces a series of specifications that define mechanisms and protocol extensions needed to fully support internationalized email addresses. These changes include an SMTP extension and extension of email header syntax to accommodate UTF-8 data. The document set also includes discussion of key assumptions and issues in deploying fully internationalized email. This document is an update of RFC 4952; it reflects additional issues identified since that document was published. Working Group Summary This document was originally targeted as Informational and approved by the IESG. However, after the main protocol documents went through IESG Evaluation, the WG decided that this document required updates to accommodate the IESG comments and needed to be put on the Standards Track as well. Document Quality This document does not describe any protocols in detail; those are in other WG documents. Ernie Daindow, Tony Hansen, Shawn Steele, and Jiankang Yao reviewed the document thoroughly and suggested text to improve it. The general protocol collection described in this document derives from prior Experimental protocols that were implemented and tested. The results of those experiments, focusing on what should be done differently as a result, are discussed in this document. At least those who implemented the Experimental protocols, and presumably some others, are likely to implement the standards-track protocols as soon as they are considered stable. There appears to be significant worldwide demand for the facilities being specified by the EAI WG and outlined in this document. Personnel Joseph Yee is the Document Shepherd. Pete Resnick is the Responsible Area Director. The EAI Working Group would like this document released as a set with the three documents previously announced (and referenced below). We would greatly appreciate that they get consecutive RFC numbers in the following (non-obvious) order: draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-12 draft-ietf-eai-rfc5336bis-16 draft-ietf-eai-rfc5335bis-13 draft-ietf-eai-rfc5337bis-dsn-06 The reason that 5336bis should have a lower number than 5335bis is because the current ordering of 5335 (the international email format document) and 5336 (the international email transport document) has caused some amount of confusion because the base specifications are in the other order: First is RFC 5321 (the email transport document) and second is 5322 (the email format document). And if it works out, having the RFC numbers end in 0, 1, 2, and 3 respectively might be salient to readers. Thanks for your consideration. From shenshuo@cnnic.cn Mon Dec 5 18:44:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F50E1F0C64 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:44:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wi2Zu2FBGd7F for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:44:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 51B551F0C63 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:44:02 -0800 (PST) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: shenshuo@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO pc309161504067) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:43:07 +0800 From: =?utf-8?Q?Sean_Shen_=E6=B2=88=E7=83=81?= To: References: <20111205070204.18545.30525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20111205070204.18545.30525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:43:21 +0800 Message-ID: <007701ccb3c0$d1b2caf0$751860d0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcyzG97Hxsw0I8UAQt+Hp4I19BmtQwApGU9w Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:44:04 -0000 Dear EAIers, The revised draft tries to reflect the following decisions in last eai = meeting: " - Tentative agreement not to extend LOGIN. - Tentative agreement to remove up-conversion as a requirement. - Apparent agreement to solve issue in section 3.3 by including=20 literals. " Your comments will be helpful! Best, Sean Shen -----Original Message----- From: ima-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ima-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 3:02 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address = Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : Pete Resnick Chris Newman Sean Shen Filename : draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2011-12-04 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support UTF-8 encoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This specification replaces RFC 5738. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From jyee@afilias.info Mon Dec 5 20:14:26 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8815421F87D9 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:14:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qaZmUz9ey1Yd for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC8221F87D6 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 20:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RXmQC-0000o0-6z for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 04:14:24 +0000 Received: from mail-qw0-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RXmQB-0005sC-9a for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 04:14:24 +0000 Received: by qaea17 with SMTP id a17so1562006qae.9 for ; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.31.132 with SMTP id y4mr10642622qac.12.1323144863456; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (76-10-148-123.dsl.teksavvy.com. [76.10.148.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hv20sm8559570qab.22.2011.12.05.20.14.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:14:19 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Yee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 23:14:11 -0500 To: "ima@ietf.org WG" Message-Id: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [EAI] keyword announcement for 'UTF8SMTPbis' X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 04:14:26 -0000 All, The chairs reviewed possible new keywords with the WG Secretary and AD. = We explored several possibilities and came to conclusion that the new = keyword should be 'SMTPUTF8'. This keyword shares the similar (or the same) characteristics from the = keyword chosen with WG consensus in experimental phase. It's specific = on the character encoding and the protocol. Other possible choice of = words (and keywords) have issues of either being too generalized or too = specific which could mean something else. Should you have a substantive objection, i.e., one that you considered = to be a show stopper rather than just a preference, please reply to this = email **no later than Thursday 9:00am US Eastern and describe your = concerns**. Unless there are such objections, the new keyword = notification will be forwarded to the RFC Editor and IANA. Best Regards, Joseph Yee and John Klensin, EAI Co-chairs From McQuilWP@pobox.com Tue Dec 6 01:13:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9F621F86F6 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 01:13:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g2+gz1SBZWZe for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 01:12:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92BFA21F8B50 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 01:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE38135F8; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:12:56 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=date:from :message-id:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=sasl; bh=1SZF6AC2fxPT rBPXH7Z/s4MiBMY=; b=r8ss107Pu5bEC2MsDXz0WsRnDauzE80A2uorK/Lg9Mj7 j3uvIydgW/YbTApXTrKNeUQRrWCC+Bhu/RiQEgMbgERsBIEopH7Oje0B4OrgTDY2 XFiIfdR42026nC7LudIWsqM+DhCIt2jAUWu3iACmfYGtR2supoQVY65PvjSo4ls= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=date:from :message-id:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=sasl; b=bA4trC 4N/hm1qJEBuXGnj5f7YZzffMvpewOeZZPMortIHTrOj+iHabe78lm+o/xPvN1so4 q0u4sIh9N3irfyBKFB75zBc4f544Xp29lXcI6K7iaIy65fDKJxc1J05IjKbsi2ug lSJergqMlKXPP85vDCwGRTlBB6ICZQ082XZIA= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C541F35F7; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:12:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from BQ07NB (unknown [68.107.110.211]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 28C6835F6; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:12:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 01:12:54 -0800 From: Bill McQuillan X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <01809380.20111206011254@pobox.com> To: IMA Discussion In-Reply-To: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> References: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 7C3000CA-1FEA-11E1-813C-9DB42E706CDE-02871704!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com Subject: Re: [EAI] keyword announcement for 'UTF8SMTPbis' X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 09:13:00 -0000 I presume that it will be pronounced: SMUT-PUTT-FATE. :-) On Mon, 2011-12-05, Joseph Yee wrote: > All, > The chairs reviewed possible new keywords with the WG > Secretary and AD. We explored several possibilities and came > to conclusion that the new keyword should be 'SMTPUTF8'. > This keyword shares the similar (or the same) characteristics > from the keyword chosen with WG consensus in experimental > phase. It's specific on the character encoding and the > protocol. Other possible choice of words (and keywords) have > issues of either being too generalized or too specific which could mean something else. > Should you have a substantive objection, i.e., one that you > considered to be a show stopper rather than just a preference, > please reply to this email **no later than Thursday 9:00am US > Eastern and describe your concerns**. Unless there are such > objections, the new keyword notification will be forwarded to the RFC Editor and IANA. > Best Regards, > Joseph Yee and John Klensin, EAI Co-chairs > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima -- Bill McQuillan From klensin@jck.com Tue Dec 6 04:17:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE6E21F8ADE for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:17:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.653 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mPwYACeci5aB for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8943621F8A35 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1RXtxj-000BhJ-0D; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 07:17:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 07:17:30 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Bill McQuillan , IMA Discussion Message-ID: <44CB0583691D3E479D0DFA4F@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <01809380.20111206011254@pobox.com> References: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> <01809380.20111206011254@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] keyword announcement for 'UTF8SMTPbis' X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 12:17:36 -0000 --On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 01:12 -0800 Bill McQuillan wrote: > I presume that it will be pronounced: SMUT-PUTT-FATE. :-) No worse than UTT-FATE-SMUTP, I believe :-) john From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Tue Dec 6 04:47:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E884921F8B26 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:47:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kKcCJHx9ryWr for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6623721F8B23 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (kalyani.aox.org [79.140.39.164]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9470AFA009F; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 12:47:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1323175628-93314-93313/8/65; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 13:47:08 +0100 Message-Id: <4EDE0F07.9050207@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 13:48:07 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> <01809380.20111206011254@pobox.com> <44CB0583691D3E479D0DFA4F@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <44CB0583691D3E479D0DFA4F@PST.JCK.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: [EAI] keyword announcement for 'UTF8SMTPbis' X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 12:47:11 -0000 This unfortunate acronym could have been avoided by learning from the SASL/GSSAPI WG that wisely adopted base16(md5()) for capability names. Arnt From klensin@jck.com Tue Dec 6 05:15:20 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E2121F8ACE for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 05:15:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DzPFgIEBj4Wb for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 05:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9EE21F8997 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 05:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1RXura-000ClN-Ac; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:15:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:15:13 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Arnt Gulbrandsen , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <75BB683E54364E5FD44CEF3C@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <4EDE0F07.9050207@gulbrandsen.priv.no> References: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> <01809380.20111206011254@pobox.com> <44CB0583691D3E479D0DFA4F@PST.JCK.COM> <4EDE0F07.9050207@gulbrandsen.priv.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] keyword announcement for 'UTF8SMTPbis' X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 13:15:20 -0000 --On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 13:48 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > This unfortunate acronym could have been avoided by learning > from the SASL/GSSAPI WG that wisely adopted > base16(md5()) for capability names. I hope you are joking. If not, would you really propose using a hash for an SMTP extension keyword given that: * All existing keywords are short enough to be spelled out and often pronounced * The keywords interact with SMTP line-length limits * These strings are seen and talked about by system support people at least and often with end users. john From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Wed Dec 7 12:17:40 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776DC11E80CA for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:17:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.848, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WdHxvThFHXls for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C8511E80B0 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1323289057; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=e5/GZj3ZKPM0Ihe9WEgDXTYUXFIFp1WsWWD5R1CrHi0=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=hAdcZeihpGUztP4ZJTJIsmj+mj9JgJv7FKwgwnDRAruTbRZt1uz2IyvgCYEcR1v1f2OY1A XL5cNxRByczOZbHw14aX8V2bzVN1ikLNP+Wr0MYsUOvYQEY0Cp/xJujV4zOzRe5WIIFh3C W3ohx188BWkARpeNYlHyqDrjVqI7SFs=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:17:37 +0000 Message-ID: <4EDFC9E2.7050809@isode.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:17:38 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?U2VhbiBTaGVuIOayiOeDgQ==?= References: <20111205070204.18545.30525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <007701ccb3c0$d1b2caf0$751860d0$@cn> In-Reply-To: <007701ccb3c0$d1b2caf0$751860d0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:17:40 -0000 On 06/12/2011 02:43, Sean Shen =E6=B2=88=E7=83=81 wrote: > Dear EAIers, > The revised draft tries to reflect the following decisions in last eai mee= ting: > > " - Tentative agreement not to extend LOGIN. > - Tentative agreement to remove up-conversion as a requirement. > - Apparent agreement to solve issue in section 3.3 by including > literals. > " > > Your comments will be helpful! Hi Sean, I think you've updated the section about LOGIN and a couple of other=20 sections incorrectly. Here are the detailed comments on -02 that try to correct that: 3.3. UTF-8 LIST and LSUB Responses After an IMAP client successfully issues an "ENABLE UTF8=3DACCEPT" command, the server MUST NOT return in LIST results any mailbox names to the client following the IMAP4 Mailbox International Naming Convention. Instead, the server SHOULD return any mailbox names with characters using utf8-quoted syntax. You've changed MUST to SHOULD here. While this is Ok, I don't think it=20 is optimal, as it doesn't explain in which cases the SHOULD can be=20 violated. I suggest the following replacement: Instead, the server MUST return any mailbox names with characters using either utf8-quoted or literal syntax. In Section 4: IMAP servers that do not advertise the "UTF8=3DACCEPT" or "UTF8=3DONLY" capability SHOULD reject an APPEND command that includes any 8-bit in the message headers with a "NO" response. This text seems to be placing requirements on servers that don't=20 implement this specification. Because implementors who don't implement=20 this specification are unlikely to read this specification, we can't do=20 that. I suggest dropping the whole paragraph. In Section 5. LOGIN Command and UTF-8 If the "UTF8=3DACCEPT" capability is advertised, that indicates the server accepts UTF-8 user names and passwords and applies SASLprep [RFC4013] to both arguments of the LOGIN command. The server MUST reject UTF-8 that fails to comply with the formal syntax in RFC 3629 [RFC3629] or if it encounters Unicode characters listed in Section 2.3 of SASLprep RFC 4013 [RFC4013]. Although this makes it syntacically legal to have a UTF-8 user name or password, there is no guarantee the user provisioning system used by the IMAP server will allow such identities. This is an implementation decision and MAY depend on what identity system the IMAP server is configured to use. The proposal was not to extend the LOGIN command and instead use the=20 AUTHENTICATE command which already supports UTF-8 usernames and=20 passwords. So, I suggest replacing the whole section to read: This specification doesn't extend the IMAP LOGIN command [RFC3501] to support UTF-8 usernames and passwords. Whenever a client needs to use UTF-8 username/passwords, it MUST use the IMAP AUTHENTICATE command which is already capable of passing UTF-8 user names and=20 credentials. Or something like this. In Section 8: 1. LIST-EXTENDED option name: UTF8 LIST-EXTENDED option type: SELECTION Implied return options(s): UTF8 LIST-EXTENDED option description: Part of previous experiment, no longer used. You obsoleted the wrong selection option: you should have obsoleted the UTF8ONLY (listed below), not this one. So please undo the change to=20 this option. Published specification: RFC 5738bis, Section 3.4.1 Security considerations: RFC 5738bis, section 9 Intended usage: OBSOLETE Person and email address to contact for further information: see the Authors' Addresses at the end of this specification Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org 2. LIST-EXTENDED option name: UTF8ONLY LIST-EXTENDED option type: SELECTION Implied return options(s): UTF8 LIST-EXTENDED option description: Causes the LIST response to include mailboxes that mandate the UTF8 SELECT/EXAMINE parameter and exclude mailboxes that do not support the UTF8 SELECT/EXAMINE parameter. I might send a couple of extra changes in a separate email. Best Regards, Alexey From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Wed Dec 7 12:28:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCC511E80DF for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:28:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.179, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t0hBOADwtpNs for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D1E11E80D3 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:28:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1323289679; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=TnThJQPFfbdCS633i2ocPugtykfMfoQZuygNiPCNIk8=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=OAOIhxPP4uWTM7GgkEQxT3GuNuc2pzboB2OGXIIVyyw02DY+JeJTgNSeioyn3DgC6QnstQ kXDdFkWUUix6iVg7s6IRGYBGs5iUKeqqWNAG6idCgtxl+KyMVLsQpyGE0oDXg5aNzn8HfZ 6/m5C3Hp+Vau+UxGUbyWuJ2mkSjYWMg=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:27:59 +0000 Message-ID: <4EDFCC55.6000000@isode.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:28:06 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 To: Barry Leiba References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] UTF=x IMAP capabilities X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:28:02 -0000 Hi Barry, On 15/11/2011 13:13, Barry Leiba wrote: [...] > That leaves UTF8=ONLY, which is reasonable to leave. And so we have > three cases: > > 1. No EAI support (no UTF8=x capabilities listed). > > 2. EAI support, but also support of non-UTF8 versions (UTF8=ACCEPT). > > 3. EAI support, and it's all there is (UTF8=ONLY). > > So I suggest that we just spell it out that way, and make UTF8=ACCEPT > and UTF8=ONLY be mutually exclusive: there can be one, the other, or > neither, but never both. I don't think the latest -02 talks about the capabilities being mutually exclusive. But I think the rest of your proposal was implemented in -02. From jyee@afilias.info Thu Dec 8 12:50:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B5E21F8500 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:50:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52P3IVGkmZZi for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957C921F84F8 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RYkv9-0001Am-5k for ima@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:50:23 +0000 Received: from mail-vw0-f50.google.com ([209.85.212.50]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RYkv9-0004VE-8C for ima@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:50:23 +0000 Received: by vbbey12 with SMTP id ey12so1926983vbb.9 for ; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.36.109 with SMTP id p13mr2803024vdj.59.1323377422967; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from jyee-lt.tor.afilias-int.info (tor-gateway.afilias.info. [199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ht1sm5269405vdb.22.2011.12.08.12.50.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:50:22 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joseph Yee In-Reply-To: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:50:20 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3EF3C641-E39F-48B7-A419-1E8C1ABCEC67@afilias.info> To: "ima@ietf.org WG" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: Re: [EAI] keyword announcement for 'UTF8SMTPbis' -- update X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:50:25 -0000 All, The new keyword has been assigned, IANA & the RFC Editor notified. Best, Joseph Yee and John Klensin, EAI Co-chairs On 2011-12-05, at 11:14 PM, Joseph Yee wrote: > All, >=20 > The chairs reviewed possible new keywords with the WG Secretary and = AD. We explored several possibilities and came to conclusion that the = new keyword should be 'SMTPUTF8'. >=20 > This keyword shares the similar (or the same) characteristics from the = keyword chosen with WG consensus in experimental phase. It's specific = on the character encoding and the protocol. Other possible choice of = words (and keywords) have issues of either being too generalized or too = specific which could mean something else. >=20 > Should you have a substantive objection, i.e., one that you considered = to be a show stopper rather than just a preference, please reply to this = email **no later than Thursday 9:00am US Eastern and describe your = concerns**. Unless there are such objections, the new keyword = notification will be forwarded to the RFC Editor and IANA. >=20 > Best Regards, > Joseph Yee and John Klensin, EAI Co-chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Sat Dec 10 13:59:09 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1254721F8B42 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:59:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id brJdad4C1r1V for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285C421F8B1D for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:59:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1323554320; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=u0t7pDnkgDKmZTlmBLJAghuwptAMF8VoGVeFQYbeIEo=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=XErOJN66iKyL5a7/BplTiaFORkzmX2jJfuatDYjoa6dQXpK3edp5ApasCnbhY+FG91plg5 ONzZLNA2u9ijL1kIOQgxqX6qnxhHZ5tjY2RUW00D1yoKwnK9PS/VMH0YLm1lk2gMiWrD4o p2Rvdwl4w1GuuAeFwFtpcS38hjAnV5I=; Received: from [188.29.165.210] (188.29.165.210.threembb.co.uk [188.29.165.210]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:58:39 +0000 Message-ID: <4EE3D60F.3030009@isode.com> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:58:39 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 To: Joseph Yee References: <49A44A8C-80D0-4368-887A-1C78AA76D005@afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <49A44A8C-80D0-4368-887A-1C78AA76D005@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "ima@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [EAI] WG Last Call to RFC5721bis X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:59:09 -0000 On 18/11/2011 08:11, Joseph Yee wrote: > Hi all, > > Following from working group discussion in IETF82, we are initiating a WG Last Call on draft, > draft-ietf-eai-rfc5721bis-03, with termination date of Nov 25, 1pm Eastern Time / 17:00 UTC. Hi, I am very sorry for being so late with my review, but I thought you might appreciate my comments. I think the document is well written and is ready for advancement to Proposed Standard. I only found a couple of nits: 6. IANA Considerations This specification updates two capabilities ("UTF8" and "LANG") to the POP3 capability registry [RFC2449]. This specification also adds one new response code ("UTF-8") to the POP3 response codes registry [RFC2449]. I think adding a pointer to section 5 where the new response code is defined would be good here, as it will help IANA to locate the necessary information. The document has 2 Informative References sections: 9.2. Informative References 9.3. Informative References They should be merged into 1. Best Regards, Alexey From internet-drafts@ietf.org Thu Dec 15 15:33:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6991F0C40; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:33:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nsLaypqyBPtW; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:33:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBCD21F8A35; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:33:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.64p1 Message-ID: <20111215233354.18626.58154.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:33:54 -0800 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:33:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Wo= rking Group of the IETF. Title : Mailing Lists and UTF-8 Addresses Author(s) : John Levine Randall Gellens Filename : draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2011-12-15 This document describes considerations for mailing lists with the introduction of internationalized email addresses. It outlines some possible scenarios for handling lists with mixtures of internationalized and traditional addresses, but does not offer implementation or deployment advice. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt From johnl@iecc.com Thu Dec 15 21:51:13 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852DB21F84BA for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:51:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -111.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-111.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QWngdaTTe-iI for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [64.57.183.53]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF41D21F84B8 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 64399 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2011 05:51:10 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2011 05:51:10 -0000 Date: 16 Dec 2011 05:50:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20111216055048.14546.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: ima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20111215233354.18626.58154.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: internet-drafts@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:51:13 -0000 In article <20111215233354.18626.58154.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> you write: > Title : Mailing Lists and UTF-8 Addresses > Author(s) : John Levine > Randall Gellens > Filename : draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2011-12-15 >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01.txt This isn't very different, mostly rewording the part about URIs and why URIs in list headers are a problem. R's, John From jyee@afilias.info Mon Dec 19 21:21:37 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A543411E80CA for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:21:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YjacmhL+AFAW for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBAB11E80C5 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcs8s-0004Zj-4N for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:21:34 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.216.178]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcs8s-0002qK-3a for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:21:34 +0000 Received: by qcso15 with SMTP id o15so3514516qcs.9 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.137.77 with SMTP id v13mr170006qct.136.1324358493537; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.107] (75-119-229-252.dsl.teksavvy.com. [75.119.229.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dk9sm1385643qab.0.2011.12.19.21.21.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:21:32 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joseph Yee In-Reply-To: <4EE3D60F.3030009@isode.com> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:21:30 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7AA90B49-7248-400D-920C-0B45A402E7F3@afilias.info> References: <49A44A8C-80D0-4368-887A-1C78AA76D005@afilias.info> <4EE3D60F.3030009@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "ima@ietf.org WG" Subject: Re: [EAI] WG Last Call to RFC5721bis X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:21:37 -0000 On 2011-12-10, at 4:58 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > On 18/11/2011 08:11, Joseph Yee wrote: >> Hi all, >>=20 >> Following from working group discussion in IETF82, we are initiating = a WG Last Call on draft, >> draft-ietf-eai-rfc5721bis-03, with termination date of Nov 25, 1pm = Eastern Time / 17:00 UTC. > Hi, > I am very sorry for being so late with my review, but I thought you = might appreciate my comments. >=20 > I think the document is well written and is ready for advancement to = Proposed Standard. I only found a couple of nits: >=20 > 6. IANA Considerations >=20 > This specification updates two capabilities ("UTF8" and "LANG") to > the POP3 capability registry [RFC2449]. >=20 > This specification also adds one new response code ("UTF-8") to the > POP3 response codes registry [RFC2449]. >=20 > I think adding a pointer to section 5 where the new response code is > defined would be good here, as it will help IANA to locate the = necessary > information. >=20 > The document has 2 Informative References sections: >=20 > 9.2. Informative References > 9.3. Informative References >=20 > They should be merged into 1. >=20 > Best Regards, > Alexey >=20 Hi, Additional nits on top of what Alexey pointed out: (1) "Obsoletes: 5721" instead of "Obsoletes: RFC5721" (2) Section 1 Introduction - 4th paragraph "down-conversion" was explained for the rest of the draft, but the = actual term used through out the draft is "down-convert". = "down-conversion" shown up only twice in the draft, and shown in the = same paragraph. This draft needs to replace "down-conversion" with = "down-convert". As Alexey says, I believed that this draft is ready. After the = revision, it should be one down, two to go. Thanks Joseph= From jyee@afilias.info Mon Dec 19 21:22:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841601F0C5D for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.965 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9dq4IUoywzu7 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538CC11E80C4 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcs9l-0008LZ-8y for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:22:29 +0000 Received: from mail-qw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.216.43]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcs9l-0007Ht-8O for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:22:29 +0000 Received: by qabg27 with SMTP id g27so21105867qab.9 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.9.201 with SMTP id m9mr551700qam.92.1324358546993; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.107] (75-119-229-252.dsl.teksavvy.com. [75.119.229.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dk9sm1385643qab.0.2011.12.19.21.22.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:23 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joseph Yee In-Reply-To: <4EDFCC55.6000000@isode.com> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:22:21 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4EDFCC55.6000000@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: Barry Leiba , ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] UTF=x IMAP capabilities X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:22:46 -0000 On 2011-12-07, at 3:28 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi Barry, >=20 > On 15/11/2011 13:13, Barry Leiba wrote: > [...] >> That leaves UTF8=3DONLY, which is reasonable to leave. And so we = have >> three cases: >>=20 >> 1. No EAI support (no UTF8=3Dx capabilities listed). >>=20 >> 2. EAI support, but also support of non-UTF8 versions (UTF8=3DACCEPT).= >>=20 >> 3. EAI support, and it's all there is (UTF8=3DONLY). >>=20 >> So I suggest that we just spell it out that way, and make UTF8=3DACCEPT= >> and UTF8=3DONLY be mutually exclusive: there can be one, the other, = or >> neither, but never both. > I don't think the latest -02 talks about the capabilities being = mutually exclusive. But I think the rest of your proposal was = implemented in -02. as individual +1 for spelling out the mutual exclusive between UTF8=3DACCEPT and = UTF8=3DONLY Joseph >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From jyee@afilias.info Mon Dec 19 21:34:33 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72ED311E80CB for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:34:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.115 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.115 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kdx58YjHgFn6 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9680611E80C6 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcs9p-0008Li-6c for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:22:33 +0000 Received: from mail-qw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.216.43]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcs9o-0002sC-5w for ima@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:22:32 +0000 Received: by mail-qw0-f43.google.com with SMTP id g27so21105868qab.9 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.10.14 with SMTP id n14mr594918qan.64.1324358552569; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.107] (75-119-229-252.dsl.teksavvy.com. [75.119.229.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dk9sm1385643qab.0.2011.12.19.21.22.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:22:31 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Joseph Yee In-Reply-To: <4EDFC9E2.7050809@isode.com> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:22:25 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <118C10E8-200A-4976-B263-50BE1DBCAE85@afilias.info> References: <20111205070204.18545.30525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <007701ccb3c0$d1b2caf0$751860d0$@cn> <4EDFC9E2.7050809@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:34:33 -0000 On 2011-12-07, at 3:17 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > On 06/12/2011 02:43, Sean Shen =E6=B2=88=E7=83=81 wrote: >> Dear EAIers, >> The revised draft tries to reflect the following decisions in last = eai meeting: >>=20 >> " - Tentative agreement not to extend LOGIN. >> - Tentative agreement to remove up-conversion as a requirement. >> - Apparent agreement to solve issue in section 3.3 by including >> literals. >> " >>=20 >> Your comments will be helpful! > Hi Sean, > I think you've updated the section about LOGIN and a couple of other = sections incorrectly. > Here are the detailed comments on -02 that try to correct that: >=20 > 3.3. UTF-8 LIST and LSUB Responses >=20 > After an IMAP client successfully issues an "ENABLE UTF8=3DACCEPT" > command, the server MUST NOT return in LIST results any mailbox = names > to the client following the IMAP4 Mailbox International Naming > Convention. Instead, the server SHOULD return any mailbox names = with > characters using utf8-quoted syntax. >=20 > You've changed MUST to SHOULD here. While this is Ok, I don't think = it is optimal, as it doesn't explain in which cases the SHOULD can be = violated. I suggest the following replacement: >=20 > Instead, the server MUST return any mailbox names with > characters using either utf8-quoted or literal syntax. +1 for the suggestion >=20 > In Section 4: >=20 > IMAP servers that do not advertise the "UTF8=3DACCEPT" or = "UTF8=3DONLY" > capability SHOULD reject an APPEND command that includes any 8-bit = in > the message headers with a "NO" response. >=20 > This text seems to be placing requirements on servers that don't = implement this specification. Because implementors who don't implement = this specification are unlikely to read this specification, we can't do = that. I suggest dropping the whole paragraph. Suggest to replace the above paragraph with the following text: If IMAP clients that do not issue "ENABLE UTF8=3DACCEPT" or "ENABLE = UTF8=3DONLY", IMAP servers MUST reject an APPEND command that includes = any 8-bit in the message headers with a "NO" response. >=20 > In Section 5. LOGIN Command and UTF-8 >=20 > If the "UTF8=3DACCEPT" capability is advertised, that indicates the > server accepts UTF-8 user names and passwords and applies SASLprep > [RFC4013] to both arguments of the LOGIN command. The server MUST > reject UTF-8 that fails to comply with the formal syntax in RFC 3629 > [RFC3629] or if it encounters Unicode characters listed in Section > 2.3 of SASLprep RFC 4013 [RFC4013]. >=20 > Although this makes it syntacically legal to have a UTF-8 user name > or password, there is no guarantee the user provisioning system used > by the IMAP server will allow such identities. This is an > implementation decision and MAY depend on what identity system the > IMAP server is configured to use. >=20 > The proposal was not to extend the LOGIN command and instead use the = AUTHENTICATE command which already supports UTF-8 usernames and = passwords. So, I suggest replacing the whole section to read: >=20 > This specification doesn't extend the IMAP LOGIN command [RFC3501] > to support UTF-8 usernames and passwords. Whenever a client needs > to use UTF-8 username/passwords, it MUST use the IMAP AUTHENTICATE > command which is already capable of passing UTF-8 user names and = credentials. >=20 > Or something like this. >=20 >=20 > In Section 8: >=20 > 1. LIST-EXTENDED option name: UTF8 >=20 > LIST-EXTENDED option type: SELECTION >=20 > Implied return options(s): UTF8 >=20 > LIST-EXTENDED option description: Part of previous experiment, = no > longer used. >=20 > You obsoleted the wrong selection option: you should have obsoleted > the UTF8ONLY (listed below), not this one. So please undo the change = to this option. >=20 > Published specification: RFC 5738bis, Section 3.4.1 >=20 > Security considerations: RFC 5738bis, section 9 >=20 > Intended usage: OBSOLETE >=20 > Person and email address to contact for further information: see > the Authors' Addresses at the end of this specification >=20 > Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org >=20 > 2. LIST-EXTENDED option name: UTF8ONLY >=20 > LIST-EXTENDED option type: SELECTION >=20 > Implied return options(s): UTF8 >=20 > LIST-EXTENDED option description: Causes the LIST response to > include mailboxes that mandate the UTF8 SELECT/EXAMINE parameter > and exclude mailboxes that do not support the UTF8 = SELECT/EXAMINE > parameter. >=20 Yes, UTF8 should have "Intended usage: COMMON" and UTF8ONLY should be = "Intended usage: OBSOLETE". > I might send a couple of extra changes in a separate email. >=20 Similar, there are some editorials and nits followup in separate email. thanks Joseph > Best Regards, > Alexey >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Sun Dec 25 06:07:44 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04D721F84FD for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 06:07:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0M7DEXcnR2hz for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 06:07:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B351F21F84FB for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 06:07:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1324822061; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=/8lTolow6NXhKEnFs1rKfroiWtp8zdjVZAL6mxWuDh0=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=RsGL73mVBiFeslNFPQcyZKMe0uoUqbGcHXw0s3W6wowNi7Vl5oWu41Z+0j5IGfnMIy7Hvf qgqpM2X/CJmV6uOnf+wbVYFf7KInaf2heXEJ3wYtPJqJpv/lV+LmSJuJqvIsEhAkvUIrPq Gj/sZ8PatEhkrzIqqOtG8jBcE8geARk=; Received: from [192.168.0.109] ((unknown) [109.73.6.25]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:07:40 +0000 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS Message-ID: <4EF716A1.2050604@isode.com> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 12:27:13 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 To: Joseph Yee References: <20111205070204.18545.30525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <007701ccb3c0$d1b2caf0$751860d0$@cn> <4EDFC9E2.7050809@isode.com> <118C10E8-200A-4976-B263-50BE1DBCAE85@afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <118C10E8-200A-4976-B263-50BE1DBCAE85@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:07:44 -0000 On 20/12/2011 05:22, Joseph Yee wrote: > On 2011-12-07, at 3:17 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> On 06/12/2011 02:43, Sean Shen =E6=B2=88=E7=83=81 wrote: >>> Dear EAIers, >>> The revised draft tries to reflect the following decisions in last eai m= eeting: >>> >>> " - Tentative agreement not to extend LOGIN. >>> - Tentative agreement to remove up-conversion as a requirement. >>> - Apparent agreement to solve issue in section 3.3 by including >>> literals. >>> " >>> >>> Your comments will be helpful! >> Hi Sean, >> I think you've updated the section about LOGIN and a couple of other sect= ions incorrectly. >> Here are the detailed comments on -02 that try to correct that: >> >> 3.3. UTF-8 LIST and LSUB Responses >> >> After an IMAP client successfully issues an "ENABLE UTF8=3DACCEPT" >> command, the server MUST NOT return in LIST results any mailbox names >> to the client following the IMAP4 Mailbox International Naming >> Convention. Instead, the server SHOULD return any mailbox names with >> characters using utf8-quoted syntax. >> >> You've changed MUST to SHOULD here. While this is Ok, I don't think it i= s optimal, as it doesn't explain in which cases the SHOULD can be violated. = I suggest the following replacement: >> >> Instead, the server MUST return any mailbox names with >> characters using either utf8-quoted or literal syntax. > +1 for the suggestion > >> In Section 4: >> >> IMAP servers that do not advertise the "UTF8=3DACCEPT" or "UTF8=3DONLY= " >> capability SHOULD reject an APPEND command that includes any 8-bit in >> the message headers with a "NO" response. >> >> This text seems to be placing requirements on servers that don't implemen= t this specification. Because implementors who don't implement this specific= ation are unlikely to read this specification, we can't do that. I suggest d= ropping the whole paragraph. > Suggest to replace the above paragraph with the following text: > > If IMAP clients that do not issue "ENABLE UTF8=3DACCEPT" or "ENABLE UTF8= =3DONLY", IMAP servers MUST reject an APPEND command that includes any 8-bit= in the message headers with a "NO" response. I think this is a small change to the extensions, but I am Ok with it (I=20 don't have any strong feelings either way). To improve wording a bit, I=20 suggest: IMAP servers that advertise support for "UTF8=3DACCEPT" or "UTF8=3DONLY"=20 MUST reject an APPEND command that includes any 8-bit in the message=20 headers with a "NO" response, when IMAP clients do not issue "ENABLE=20 UTF8=3DACCEPT" or "ENABLE UTF8=3DONLY". >> In Section 5. LOGIN Command and UTF-8 >> >> If the "UTF8=3DACCEPT" capability is advertised, that indicates the >> server accepts UTF-8 user names and passwords and applies SASLprep >> [RFC4013] to both arguments of the LOGIN command. The server MUST >> reject UTF-8 that fails to comply with the formal syntax in RFC 3629 >> [RFC3629] or if it encounters Unicode characters listed in Section >> 2.3 of SASLprep RFC 4013 [RFC4013]. >> >> Although this makes it syntacically legal to have a UTF-8 user name >> or password, there is no guarantee the user provisioning system used >> by the IMAP server will allow such identities. This is an >> implementation decision and MAY depend on what identity system the >> IMAP server is configured to use. >> >> The proposal was not to extend the LOGIN command and instead use the AUTH= ENTICATE command which already supports UTF-8 usernames and passwords. So, I= suggest replacing the whole section to read: >> >> This specification doesn't extend the IMAP LOGIN command [RFC3501] >> to support UTF-8 usernames and passwords. Whenever a client needs >> to use UTF-8 username/passwords, it MUST use the IMAP AUTHENTICATE >> command which is already capable of passing UTF-8 user names and crede= ntials. >> >> Or something like this. >> >> >> In Section 8: >> >> 1. LIST-EXTENDED option name: UTF8 >> >> LIST-EXTENDED option type: SELECTION >> >> Implied return options(s): UTF8 >> >> LIST-EXTENDED option description: Part of previous experiment, no >> longer used. >> >> You obsoleted the wrong selection option: you should have obsoleted >> the UTF8ONLY (listed below), not this one. So please undo the change to t= his option. >> >> Published specification: RFC 5738bis, Section 3.4.1 >> >> Security considerations: RFC 5738bis, section 9 >> >> Intended usage: OBSOLETE >> >> Person and email address to contact for further information: see >> the Authors' Addresses at the end of this specification >> >> Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org >> >> 2. LIST-EXTENDED option name: UTF8ONLY >> >> LIST-EXTENDED option type: SELECTION >> >> Implied return options(s): UTF8 >> >> LIST-EXTENDED option description: Causes the LIST response to >> include mailboxes that mandate the UTF8 SELECT/EXAMINE parameter >> and exclude mailboxes that do not support the UTF8 SELECT/EXAMINE >> parameter. >> > Yes, UTF8 should have "Intended usage: COMMON" and UTF8ONLY should be "Int= ended usage: OBSOLETE". Right. And the "LIST-EXTENDED option description" needs to be correct=20 accordingly. [...] From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Dec 26 00:20:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E9221F8AD3; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:20:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.533 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.533 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.066, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fdNckSSK8Jhj; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:20:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0000021F8AC3; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:20:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.64p1 Message-ID: <20111226082056.19237.32260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:20:56 -0800 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 08:20:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Wo= rking Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : Pete Resnick Chris Newman Sean Shen Filename : draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2011-12-26 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support UTF-8 encoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This specification replaces RFC 5738. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt From shenshuo@cnnic.cn Mon Dec 26 00:27:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF9821F8ABB for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:27:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.69 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id owwkxK9hXoh6 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:27:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CAAE321F8AB0 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:27:56 -0800 (PST) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: shenshuo@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO sonyvaio) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:27:53 +0800 From: =?gb2312?B?U2VhbiBTaGVuIMnyy7g=?= To: References: <20111226082056.19237.32260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20111226082056.19237.32260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:27:51 +0800 Organization: CNNIC Message-ID: <00cb01ccc3a8$4209ead0$c61dc070$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AczDp2ZKKYYo9rLqRF6VYHqNR+4AaAAACl4g Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 08:27:57 -0000 Dear eai workers=A3=AC The the updated 5738bis draft was submitted. It accommodate all the = recent comments including Alexey's comments on Chrismas night, thank you, = Alexey! Hope everyone had a great holiday! Sean Shen -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ima-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ima-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA12=D4=C226=C8=D5 16:21 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: ima@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : Pete Resnick Chris Newman Sean Shen Filename : draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2011-12-26 This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support UTF-8 encoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This specification replaces RFC 5738. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-03.txt _______________________________________________ IMA mailing list IMA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima