From nobody Sat May 2 10:21:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1951A874F for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 10:21:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.903 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MZI2aUIdsFNE for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 10:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E5B01A86E3 for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 10:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wizk4 with SMTP id k4so81219423wiz.1 for ; Sat, 02 May 2015 10:21:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=3pbzWLvvf7BLivHSzl4/n4rbevFuB7ikBsFCUD86Ess=; b=bHls0piS5CAo5wKxig38XIi+roBIFJlv4X5LmDJrNcKrCK5L1qjDumiJifUf9QgR6j HM/S5HocAbojcmcxfTgjl2lWNUpdrlI7tSlRQdlUKMlAW2vF7lvnBaUH1EnIAaNzJ/+G GHpmZ/hdZsOIhi2VG32P3mTS4mxogzR6YJ9Gvrm89lomqbD6qc1zX7Un0bL/RlWc6/nl AtVDTMezyOfHnTvZZxQCn+imNdKi1ESPHN9nujQYJ8xSUVV/Ik1/GhNoSkQeYL4ywHjS qT9ukANpiJG2yn+Wyazq6hJZT6uaEeqs6LuXutLpDws5BKu8MLQuwIj0/AWxTgncTHVa Y2AQ== X-Received: by 10.194.63.9 with SMTP id c9mr26789604wjs.143.1430587300002; Sat, 02 May 2015 10:21:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mark.edward.davis@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.125.141 with HTTP; Sat, 2 May 2015 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3D9223A5-135E-4F43-B814-EB7BE51D207C@linkedin.com> <01PKTYIGGNDC0000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <20150422133208.GD11774@mx2.yitter.info> From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 19:21:19 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zeH8f0Si1TZ33ayTspVkFmruX7E Message-ID: To: Franck Martin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86d48ad641cf05151c8f9d Archived-At: Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [EAI] UTF32 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 17:21:43 -0000 --047d7b86d48ad641cf05151c8f9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happened to see this email while searching for something else. Unicode is certainly far from perfect, but the author of that piece is sadly misinformed about Unicode, certainly for East Asian languages, but also for his own: he's referring to "ya-phal=C4=81" =E2=80=94 see http://unicode.org/faq/bengali.html#6. Mark *=E2=80=94 Il meglio =C3=A8 l=E2=80=99inimico del bene =E2=80=94* On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Franck Martin wrote= : > > > Toute connaissance est une r=C3=A9ponse =C3=A0 une question. > > > On Apr 22, 2015, at 06:32, Andrew Sullivan > wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 09:21:49AM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > >> Now you may be thinking about something else. The Unicode code > >> space ranges only from 0 to 0x10FFFF. A 32bit code space would > >> be 0 to 0xFFFFFFFF. > > > > Importantly, if that's the problem one is trying to tackle, there > > isn't anything the IETF can do about it. It's fully a Unicode issue. > > > Yes, Unicode has a few problems to tackle that is not in the realm of IET= F > > > https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-can-text-you-a-pile-of-poo-but-i-ca= nt-write-my-name > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > --047d7b86d48ad641cf05151c8f9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Happened to see this email while searching for som= ething else.=C2=A0

Unicode is certainly far = from perfect, but the author of that piece is sadly misinformed about Unico= de, certainly for East Asian languages, but also for his own: he's refe= rring to "ya-phal=C4=81" =E2=80=94 see http://unicode.org/faq/bengali.html#6.



=


=E2=80=94 Il meglio =C3=A8 l=E2=80=99inimico= del bene =E2=80=94

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Franck Mart= in <fmartin@linkedin.com> wrote:


Toute connaissance est une r=C3=A9ponse =C3=A0 une question.

> On Apr 22, 2015, at 06:32, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 09:21:49AM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: >> Now you may be thinking about something else.=C2=A0 The Unicode co= de
>> space ranges only from 0 to 0x10FFFF.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A 32bit code spa= ce would
>> be 0 to 0xFFFFFFFF.
>
> Importantly, if that's the problem one is trying to tackle, there<= br> > isn't anything the IETF can do about it.=C2=A0 It's fully a Un= icode issue.
>
Yes, Unicode has a few problems to tackle that is not in the realm o= f IETF

https://modelviewculture.com/p= ieces/i-can-text-you-a-pile-of-poo-but-i-cant-write-my-name
___________________________________= ____________
IMA mailing list
IMA@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima

--047d7b86d48ad641cf05151c8f9d-- From nobody Sat May 2 12:18:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A0211A8A1B for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:18:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.712 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.712 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AXjdUz8ZQEOH for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [66.159.242.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E891A1A15 for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01PLHYGDE6Z400Q317@mauve.mrochek.com> for ima@ietf.org; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:13:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1430594003; bh=4sQBCClM396T6+FMVllssGyTEcARsROT96efmAWN0Xs=; h=From:Cc:Date:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To; b=MzZNlRutytoGirlge2yBbT2/z/T1GlXLKlaRzxoIvu/Ut3V86MhiMIdmdCxGjl69P VBpm6bAgK7vkQy3WaAXcKvhokeJ6aUwYfjQqu2F7/HypDNMOcw17Mm+I+XJ5r2KirL U78KYfxx3yqdhnlEnuBoU9p26tjHrPhTEk0PfikU= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8 Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01PLDOMCP7WG0000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> (original mail from NED@mauve.mrochek.com) for ima@ietf.org; Sat, 02 May 2015 12:13:19 -0700 (PDT) From: ned+ima@mrochek.com Message-id: <01PLHYGBP7K40000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sat, 02 May 2015 19:21:19 +0200" References: <3D9223A5-135E-4F43-B814-EB7BE51D207C@linkedin.com> <01PKTYIGGNDC0000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <20150422133208.GD11774@mx2.yitter.info> To: =?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= Archived-At: Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [EAI] UTF32 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 19:18:25 -0000 > Happened to see this email while searching for something else. I was hoping you would respond... > Unicode is certainly far from perfect, but the author of that piece is > sadly misinformed about Unicode, certainly for East Asian languages, but > also for his own: he's referring to "ya-phalā" — see > http://unicode.org/faq/bengali.html#6. +1 The author seems not to understand the the basic principles behind character composition in Unicode. That said, I found the implication that Han Unification is a fairly new thing to be amusing. Ned P.S. Where's the Emoji Modifier for Vulcan skin tone? Inquiring minds want to know... > Mark > *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* > On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Franck Martin wrote: > > > > > > Toute connaissance est une réponse à une question. > > > > > On Apr 22, 2015, at 06:32, Andrew Sullivan > > wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 09:21:49AM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > > >> Now you may be thinking about something else. The Unicode code > > >> space ranges only from 0 to 0x10FFFF. A 32bit code space would > > >> be 0 to 0xFFFFFFFF. > > > > > > Importantly, if that's the problem one is trying to tackle, there > > > isn't anything the IETF can do about it. It's fully a Unicode issue. > > > > > Yes, Unicode has a few problems to tackle that is not in the realm of IETF > > > > > > https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-can-text-you- a-pile-of-poo-but-i-cant-write-my-name > > _______________________________________________ > > IMA mailing list > > IMA@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > From nobody Sat May 2 12:38:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 179501A8F3E for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.004 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.004 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j4zEabEsIFnj for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8EED1A8F3D for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wief7 with SMTP id f7so51170786wie.0 for ; Sat, 02 May 2015 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=YUKmFzDlcfT7yVIOtEhZkttxODgl8fdCypnRyt51fag=; b=Pi+FxTgUdQ/nF3y1bPIojyTJlgTcJ9MBRyMNTcx5lvf9gsLG3QOAA7MZcsls5EfRmZ jCW5Rhdz6GQ7ensULL4ZnMI8//PbVOTig84peHnqENuw48QQoiJ6RJTFXCpjBnHV57ew 1Jx4LsnuZ6FtbE5dA3bUjSOqwklmJFMNx5dZeHccxHdVBXjEo0ae1AWrNR+Laa5EkxHd Ba7FcSNdwuVLxCBeJu951SFbCFB8yHxxPClmeNZ6eiS25wcab7Q9ZhPe4SXSw64g9usp aOgMabYwEZrBE8wQhJiiloXbBHKNtWE45Op43Xo7nkp5WeNMpzxGYhQ8T9uLsX+bYMOU NBQA== X-Received: by 10.180.208.84 with SMTP id mc20mr6952764wic.38.1430595475626; Sat, 02 May 2015 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mark.edward.davis@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.125.141 with HTTP; Sat, 2 May 2015 12:37:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01PLHYGBP7K40000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <3D9223A5-135E-4F43-B814-EB7BE51D207C@linkedin.com> <01PKTYIGGNDC0000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <20150422133208.GD11774@mx2.yitter.info> <01PLHYGBP7K40000AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJXvuI8=?= Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 21:37:35 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4Veyq70tDGpJ1p3hj8CnF8I3174 Message-ID: To: Ned Freed Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c33606245f8305151e7763 Archived-At: Cc: "ima@ietf.org" , Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [EAI] UTF32 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 19:37:59 -0000 --001a11c33606245f8305151e7763 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > P.S. Where's the Emoji Modifier for Vulcan skin tone? Inquiring minds wan= t to know... [image: =E2=98=BA] http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/proposed.html#Diversity_Implementations =E2=80=8B (it's in the Optional set =E2=80=94 now called "Secondary" in the= current working draft for next week's UTC meeting)=E2=80=8B Mark *=E2=80=94 Il meglio =C3=A8 l=E2=80=99inimico del bene =E2=80=94* On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Ned Freed wrote: > > Happened to see this email while searching for something else. > > I was hoping you would respond... > > > Unicode is certainly far from perfect, but the author of that piece is > > sadly misinformed about Unicode, certainly for East Asian languages, bu= t > > also for his own: he's referring to "ya-phal=C4=81" =E2=80=94 see > > http://unicode.org/faq/bengali.html#6. > > +1 > > The author seems not to understand the the basic principles behind > character > composition in Unicode. > > That said, I found the implication that Han Unification is a fairly > new thing to be amusing. > > Ned > > P.S. Where's the Emoji Modifier for Vulcan skin tone? Inquiring minds wan= t > to know... > > > Mark > > > *=E2=80=94 Il meglio =C3=A8 l=E2=80=99inimico del bene =E2=80=94* > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Franck Martin > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Toute connaissance est une r=C3=A9ponse =C3=A0 une question. > > > > > > > On Apr 22, 2015, at 06:32, Andrew Sullivan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 09:21:49AM -0400, John C Klensin wrote: > > > >> Now you may be thinking about something else. The Unicode code > > > >> space ranges only from 0 to 0x10FFFF. A 32bit code space would > > > >> be 0 to 0xFFFFFFFF. > > > > > > > > Importantly, if that's the problem one is trying to tackle, there > > > > isn't anything the IETF can do about it. It's fully a Unicode issu= e. > > > > > > > Yes, Unicode has a few problems to tackle that is not in the realm of > IETF > > > > > > > > > https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-can-text-you- > a-pile-of-poo-but-i-cant-write-my-name > > > _______________________________________________ > > > IMA mailing list > > > IMA@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > > > > --001a11c33606245f8305151e7763 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=C2=A0P.S. Where's the Emoji Modifier for Vulcan skin tone= ? Inquiring minds want
to= know...

=
3D"=E2=98=BA"
http= ://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/proposed.html#Diversity_Implementations=
=E2=80=8B (it's i= n the Optional set =E2=80=94 now called "Secondary" in the curren= t working draft for next week's UTC meeting)=E2=80=8B

<= /div>



=E2=80=94 Il meglio =C3=A8 l=E2=80=99inimico del bene =E2=80=94
=

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> wrote:
> Happened to see this email while searching for= something else.

I was hoping you would respond...

> Unicode is certainly far from perfect, but the author of that piece is=
> sadly misinformed about Unicode, certainly for East Asian languages, b= ut
> also for his own: he's referring to "ya-phal=C4=81" =E2= =80=94 see
> ht= tp://unicode.org/faq/bengali.html#6.

+1

The author seems not to understand the the basic principles behind characte= r
composition in Unicode.

That said, I found the implication that Han Unification is a fairly
new thing to be amusing.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ned

P.S. Where's the Emoji Modifier for Vulcan skin tone? Inquiring minds w= ant
to know...

> Mark <h= ttps://google.com/+MarkDavis>

> *=E2=80=94 Il meglio =C3=A8 l=E2=80=99inimico del bene =E2=80=94*

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Franck Martin <fmartin@linkedin.com> wrote:

> >
> >
> > Toute connaissance est une r=C3=A9ponse =C3=A0 une question.
> >
> > > On Apr 22, 2015, at 06:32, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 09:21:49AM -0400, John C Klensin= wrote:
> > >> Now you may be thinking about something else.=C2=A0 The = Unicode code
> > >> space ranges only from 0 to 0x10FFFF.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A 32bi= t code space would
> > >> be 0 to 0xFFFFFFFF.
> > >
> > > Importantly, if that's the problem one is trying to tack= le, there
> > > isn't anything the IETF can do about it.=C2=A0 It's = fully a Unicode issue.
> > >
> > Yes, Unicode has a few problems to tackle that is not in the real= m of IETF
> >
> >
> > https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-can-text-you- a-pile-of-poo-but-i-cant-write-my-name
> > _______________________________________________
> > IMA mailing list
> > IMA@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
> >

--001a11c33606245f8305151e7763--