Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OHungj040215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OHunwA040214; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OHuljY040207 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:56:46 +0000 Message-ID: <45B79DCD.4060300@isode.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:56:29 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timo Sirainen CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: SEARCHM References: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> <1169658105.13714.363.camel@hurina> In-Reply-To: <1169658105.13714.363.camel@hurina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Timo Sirainen wrote: >On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 16:45 +0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > >>Timo Sirainen wrote: >> >> >>>Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to >>>support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? >>> >>> >>I've recently revived it as >>draft-melnikov-imapext-multimailbox-search-01.txt. >> >> >Weren't there some talk about using LISTEXT for selecting the mailbox >list? > > I vaguely remember something. >At least I don't really like that multimailbox-search supports DEPTH >while LISTEXT doesn't. > > We should discuss how to fix this in both places. I think LISTEXT is lacking DEPTH, which is inconvenient. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OH1miq035695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:01:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OH1mDH035694; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:01:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [213.157.71.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OH1kml035684 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:01:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tss@iki.fi) Received: from hurina (82-203-162-146.dsl.gohome.fi [82.203.162.146]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7BCF0CFC; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:03:22 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: SEARCHM From: Timo Sirainen To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org In-Reply-To: <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> References: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:01:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1169658105.13714.363.camel@hurina> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.3 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 16:45 +0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Timo Sirainen wrote: >=20 > >Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to > >support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? > > =20 > > > I've recently revived it as=20 > draft-melnikov-imapext-multimailbox-search-01.txt. Weren't there some talk about using LISTEXT for selecting the mailbox list? At least I don't really like that multimailbox-search supports DEPTH while LISTEXT doesn't. --=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBFt5D5yUhSUUBViskRAkKmAJ90eWTMBiHvazRNVC2fPRfiLQU8sgCfUKwy IyeLETEGqQIS1oE5IYwQfLw= =8lOS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGkI95034228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OGkIDj034227; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGkHK4034221 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:46:16 +0000 Message-ID: <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:45:59 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timo Sirainen CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: SEARCHM References: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> In-Reply-To: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Timo Sirainen wrote: >Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to >support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? > > I've recently revived it as draft-melnikov-imapext-multimailbox-search-01.txt. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGULdS033104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OGULkf033103; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [213.157.71.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGUKfO033092 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tss@iki.fi) Received: from hurina (82-203-162-146.dsl.gohome.fi [82.203.162.146]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0378F0D47 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:31:44 +0200 (EET) Subject: SEARCHM From: Timo Sirainen To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:30:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.3 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? --=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBFt4mQyUhSUUBViskRAmdnAJoD3vIgWsRNeMF7ArztkMWnuE4wswCdGf3J nw3O5B3BzVzDIaXnM+vyqeE= =1Jao -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKW1mM049455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:32:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MKW18A049453; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:32:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0MKVxYR049433; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:31:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tony@att.com) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1169497917!11829010!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 15567 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 20:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh0i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-10.tower-120.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 20:31:57 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MKVuKR023515; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MKVqjq023459; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:31:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [135.91.110.64] (thansen-n.mt.att.com[135.91.110.64](untrusted sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070122203152gw10010gm4e> (Authid: tony); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:31:52 +0000 Message-ID: <45B51F37.1090000@att.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:31:51 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-822 mailing list , lemonade@ietf.org, imapext CC: ietf-smtp@imc.org Subject: [Fwd: Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work] X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060704040600040307050804" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060704040600040307050804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an FYI of work that's starting up on the ietf-smtp@imc.org mailing list. Tony Hansen tony@att.com --------------060704040600040307050804 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename*0="Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work" Received: from attrh6i.attrh.att.com ([135.37.113.201]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070122194310gw1000tae2e>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:43:10 +0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh6i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MJa4Il015385 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:36:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com [144.160.112.10]) by attrh6i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MJZxnN015354 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0MJh3XQ028872 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:43:04 -0600 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com (mail121.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.195]) by tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id l0MJh1KQ028853 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:43:01 -0600 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1169494979!8746809!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [192.245.12.227] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= Received: (qmail 24732 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 19:43:00 -0000 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (HELO balder-227.proper.com) (192.245.12.227) by server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 19:43:00 -0000 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MJeCir045165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MJeCIR045164; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MJeA7k045158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldusseault@commerce.net) Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by gateout01.mbox.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769372582 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:40:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET [165.212.116.254] by gateout01.mbox.net via smtad (C8.MAIN.3.34N) with ESMTP id XID272LaVTOk1158Xo1; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:40:10 -0000 X-USANET-Source: 165.212.116.254 IN ldusseault@commerce.net GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET X-USANET-MsgId: XID272LaVTOk1158Xo1 Received: from [10.1.1.203] ([157.22.41.10]) by GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: ietf-smtp@imc.org From: Lisa Dusseault Subject: Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:40:08 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2007 19:40:10.0355 (UTC) FILETIME=[209F7430:01C73E5D] Sender: owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I've been discussing the advancement of RFC2821 along the standards track with a few people, and we'd like to proceed publicly. This email can be considered an informal charter and plan for initial work, with consensus goals for the effort, which may not need a formal WG. Charter-bashing should be done *early* if you disagree. I'd rather avoid late-cycle suggestions to change the goals. This list seems like a fine place to have discussions about the goals, as well as to do the actual work, and I'll post pointers to a couple other lists to direct people here who aren't already subscribed. 1. We want to advance RFC2821/SMTP to Draft Standard. Thus, we don't want to design anything "new" or "better" for SMTP as part of this particular effort, which would require recycling at Proposed Standard -- in fact, we want to be conservative in minimizing changes. As with any movement from DS to PS, changes should be limited to, if possible: clarifications of the spec where there are discrepancies, and removal of unused features. The fixing of "bugs" should be limited to those that have a *very strong* consensus. Tony Hansen volunteered to keep a chair-like eye on the activity, progress and consensus where needed, which will be particularly helpful as I'll be on leave in Feb and March. 2. We do think there are some bugs in the document that are worth fixing. We don't think that those fixes are likely to cause significant change to the behavior of conforming implementations. Tony Hansen put RFC2821 into XML2RFC format, and John Klensin has a revision with fixes which he'll post here. Volunteers to review, please? 3. Some interop reporting is likely needed. We don't think this requires a huge effort. Here's one way to proceed: one step is for somebody to write an outline that lists the major interop areas or features to consider. The next step is for a couple implementors to fill in that outline their experience with their code-bases and talking to other implementations. Another way to try to proceed is to have implementors report what they *don't* implement or find doesn't work. We don't believe we have to document every MUST/MAY/ SHOULD but can look at least one level higher (less granular). Either way, it shouldn't require new testing, and we definitely want to try to keep this lightweight so that there's hope it actually gets done. Ned Freed and Alexey Melnikov have volunteered to do some work here -- Alexey has already begun -- and Dave Crocker outlined a "interop questionnaire" that would be lightweight. Ned, Alexey and Dave can you post your proposals or status to this list? Lisa --------------060704040600040307050804-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l08BfoZQ028537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l08Bfo8m028536; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l08Bfmhw028515 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@oryx.com) Received: from libertango.oryx.com (libertango.oryx.com [195.30.37.9]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82BA4AD44; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:41:47 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:43:23 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: sort and i18n Cc: Timo Sirainen References: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Happy new year. Timo Sirainen writes: > From i18n draft: > > Strings encoded using unknown character encodings should never match > when using the SEARCH command, and should sort together with invalid > input for the SORT and THREAD commands. > > First of all, I don't see either draft explaining how "invalid input" > is sorted. Does it mean it should be treated as an empty string? It goes at the end. > If I have a subject: > > Subject: hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world > > Should it be treated as empty string, "hello" or "hello world"? I > think "hello world" is what the user would want. That's certainly what I would want as a user, but neither RFC 1345 nor any of the later RFCs say that all unknown characters sets must be supersets of ASCII, so it's a somewhat unsafe assumption. I don't see justification for making that assumption that in a standards-track RFC. I thought about adding some language to the i18n document specifying that some codepoints may be assumed to be equal to those in ASCII even if the name of the character set is not known, but it was a lot of text for an odd case and I wasn't sure what codepoints that should be. (The common subset of US-ASCII and ISO-646-*?) As if today, your subject should be treated the same way as Subject: hello =?us-ascii?q?=88?= world and I think this is the same, too: Subject: hello =?iso-8859-8?q?=ff?= world Arnt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05KWbgK024112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:32:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05KWb0f024111; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:32:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout1.cac.washington.edu (mxout1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.134]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05KWatL024104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9] (may be forged)) by mxout1.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW06.09) with ESMTP id l05KWS1c002906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:32:28 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from pangtzu.panda.com (pangtzu.panda.com [206.124.149.117]) (authenticated authid=mrc) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW06.09) with ESMTP id l05KWGJi024125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:32:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:32:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin To: Dave Cridland cc: Timo Sirainen , ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: sort and i18n In-Reply-To: <2956.1168025998.315734@peirce.dave.cridland.net> Message-ID: References: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> <2956.1168025998.315734@peirce.dave.cridland.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 5.2.2.285561, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.0.283055, Antispam-Data: 2007.1.5.121933 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Dave Cridland wrote: > I could also deal with it matching "hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world" > too. +1 -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05JeJNW020285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05JeJvo020284; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk (heisenberg.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05JeIQo020278 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dave@cridland.net) Received: from [217.155.137.60] (helo=turner.dave.cridland.net) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H2uvJ-0005ve-CH; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:40:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by turner.dave.cridland.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA329498005; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from turner.dave.cridland.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turner.dave.cridland.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01396-01; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from peirce.dave.cridland.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:4bd0:2029:0:2e0:81ff:fe29:d16a]) by turner.dave.cridland.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6E3498004; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:23 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:39:54 +0000 Subject: Re: sort and i18n References: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <2956.1168025998.315734@peirce.dave.cridland.net> From: Dave Cridland To: Timo Sirainen Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at dave.cridland.net X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [217.155.137.60] Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri Jan 5 18:19:56 2007, Timo Sirainen wrote: > From i18n draft: > > Strings encoded using unknown character encodings should never > match > when using the SEARCH command, and should sort together with > invalid > input for the SORT and THREAD commands. > > First of all, I don't see either draft explaining how "invalid > input" is sorted. Does it mean it should be treated as an empty > string? > > By comparator rules, at the end, independently of the ordering. > If I have a subject: > > Subject: hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world > > Should it be treated as empty string, "hello" or "hello world"? I > think "hello world" is what the user would want. > > For sorting purposes, I'd expect it to be treated as invalid. For searching purposes, strictly speaking it's invalid and doesn't match anything, but I wouldn't bemaon an implementation where substring matches for "hello" and "world" matched. It definitely doesn't match "hello world", since there are no [known] spaces. I could also deal with it matching "hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world" too. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:dave@cridland.net - xmpp:dwd@jabber.org - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05IK5iR013239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05IK5eO013238; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [213.157.71.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05IK369013215 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:20:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tss@iki.fi) Received: from [192.168.10.217] (82-203-162-146.dsl.gohome.fi [82.203.162.146]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5EBF0C1C for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:21:26 +0200 (EET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-7-735435426" To: ietf-imapext@imc.org From: Timo Sirainen Subject: sort and i18n Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:19:56 +0200 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.2 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-7-735435426 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed From i18n draft: Strings encoded using unknown character encodings should never match when using the SEARCH command, and should sort together with invalid input for the SORT and THREAD commands. First of all, I don't see either draft explaining how "invalid input" is sorted. Does it mean it should be treated as an empty string? If I have a subject: Subject: hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world Should it be treated as empty string, "hello" or "hello world"? I think "hello world" is what the user would want. --Apple-Mail-7-735435426 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFnpbMyUhSUUBViskRAg0QAJsG4tpLGb/NtFp8/1IPTmjenIV+gwCffrn9 0ByaIaTEZjYBCy67zVpEjIU= =8DKN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-7-735435426-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OHungj040215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OHunwA040214; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OHuljY040207 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:56:46 +0000 Message-ID: <45B79DCD.4060300@isode.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:56:29 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timo Sirainen CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: SEARCHM References: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> <1169658105.13714.363.camel@hurina> In-Reply-To: <1169658105.13714.363.camel@hurina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Timo Sirainen wrote: >On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 16:45 +0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > >>Timo Sirainen wrote: >> >> >>>Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to >>>support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? >>> >>> >>I've recently revived it as >>draft-melnikov-imapext-multimailbox-search-01.txt. >> >> >Weren't there some talk about using LISTEXT for selecting the mailbox >list? > > I vaguely remember something. >At least I don't really like that multimailbox-search supports DEPTH >while LISTEXT doesn't. > > We should discuss how to fix this in both places. I think LISTEXT is lacking DEPTH, which is inconvenient. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OH1miq035695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:01:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OH1mDH035694; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:01:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [213.157.71.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OH1kml035684 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:01:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tss@iki.fi) Received: from hurina (82-203-162-146.dsl.gohome.fi [82.203.162.146]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7BCF0CFC; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:03:22 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: SEARCHM From: Timo Sirainen To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: ietf-imapext@imc.org In-Reply-To: <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> References: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:01:45 +0200 Message-Id: <1169658105.13714.363.camel@hurina> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.3 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 16:45 +0000, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Timo Sirainen wrote: >=20 > >Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to > >support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? > > =20 > > > I've recently revived it as=20 > draft-melnikov-imapext-multimailbox-search-01.txt. Weren't there some talk about using LISTEXT for selecting the mailbox list? At least I don't really like that multimailbox-search supports DEPTH while LISTEXT doesn't. --=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBFt5D5yUhSUUBViskRAkKmAJ90eWTMBiHvazRNVC2fPRfiLQU8sgCfUKwy IyeLETEGqQIS1oE5IYwQfLw= =8lOS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-xey1jLHTdC0gtmb/L1HH-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGkI95034228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OGkIDj034227; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGkHK4034221 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:46:16 +0000 Message-ID: <45B78D47.4090807@isode.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:45:59 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timo Sirainen CC: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: SEARCHM References: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> In-Reply-To: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Timo Sirainen wrote: >Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to >support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? > > I've recently revived it as draft-melnikov-imapext-multimailbox-search-01.txt. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGULdS033104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0OGULkf033103; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [213.157.71.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0OGUKfO033092 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tss@iki.fi) Received: from hurina (82-203-162-146.dsl.gohome.fi [82.203.162.146]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0378F0D47 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:31:44 +0200 (EET) Subject: SEARCHM From: Timo Sirainen To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:30:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1169656208.13714.347.camel@hurina> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.3 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like the draft expired years ago. Are there any newer efforts to support searching from multiple mailboxes with a single command? --=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBFt4mQyUhSUUBViskRAmdnAJoD3vIgWsRNeMF7ArztkMWnuE4wswCdGf3J nw3O5B3BzVzDIaXnM+vyqeE= =1Jao -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Bc5EvcGPAURw9HITagy8-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MKW1mM049455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:32:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MKW18A049453; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:32:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id l0MKVxYR049433; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:31:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tony@att.com) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1169497917!11829010!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 15567 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 20:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh0i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-10.tower-120.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 20:31:57 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MKVuKR023515; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MKVqjq023459; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:31:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [135.91.110.64] (thansen-n.mt.att.com[135.91.110.64](untrusted sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070122203152gw10010gm4e> (Authid: tony); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:31:52 +0000 Message-ID: <45B51F37.1090000@att.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:31:51 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-822 mailing list , lemonade@ietf.org, imapext CC: ietf-smtp@imc.org Subject: [Fwd: Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work] X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060704040600040307050804" Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060704040600040307050804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an FYI of work that's starting up on the ietf-smtp@imc.org mailing list. Tony Hansen tony@att.com --------------060704040600040307050804 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename*0="Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work" Received: from attrh6i.attrh.att.com ([135.37.113.201]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070122194310gw1000tae2e>; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:43:10 +0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh6i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MJa4Il015385 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:36:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com [144.160.112.10]) by attrh6i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l0MJZxnN015354 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0MJh3XQ028872 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:43:04 -0600 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com (mail121.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.195]) by tlph032.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id l0MJh1KQ028853 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:43:01 -0600 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1169494979!8746809!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [192.245.12.227] X-SpamReason: No, hits=0.0 required=7.0 tests= Received: (qmail 24732 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 19:43:00 -0000 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (HELO balder-227.proper.com) (192.245.12.227) by server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 19:43:00 -0000 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MJeCir045165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l0MJeCIR045164; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l0MJeA7k045158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldusseault@commerce.net) Received: from gateout01.mbox.net (gateout01.mbox.net [165.212.64.21]) by gateout01.mbox.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769372582 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:40:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET [165.212.116.254] by gateout01.mbox.net via smtad (C8.MAIN.3.34N) with ESMTP id XID272LaVTOk1158Xo1; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:40:10 -0000 X-USANET-Source: 165.212.116.254 IN ldusseault@commerce.net GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET X-USANET-MsgId: XID272LaVTOk1158Xo1 Received: from [10.1.1.203] ([157.22.41.10]) by GW2.EXCHPROD.USA.NET over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:40:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: ietf-smtp@imc.org From: Lisa Dusseault Subject: Advancing RFC2821 to Draft Standard -- outline of work Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:40:08 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2007 19:40:10.0355 (UTC) FILETIME=[209F7430:01C73E5D] Sender: owner-ietf-smtp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I've been discussing the advancement of RFC2821 along the standards track with a few people, and we'd like to proceed publicly. This email can be considered an informal charter and plan for initial work, with consensus goals for the effort, which may not need a formal WG. Charter-bashing should be done *early* if you disagree. I'd rather avoid late-cycle suggestions to change the goals. This list seems like a fine place to have discussions about the goals, as well as to do the actual work, and I'll post pointers to a couple other lists to direct people here who aren't already subscribed. 1. We want to advance RFC2821/SMTP to Draft Standard. Thus, we don't want to design anything "new" or "better" for SMTP as part of this particular effort, which would require recycling at Proposed Standard -- in fact, we want to be conservative in minimizing changes. As with any movement from DS to PS, changes should be limited to, if possible: clarifications of the spec where there are discrepancies, and removal of unused features. The fixing of "bugs" should be limited to those that have a *very strong* consensus. Tony Hansen volunteered to keep a chair-like eye on the activity, progress and consensus where needed, which will be particularly helpful as I'll be on leave in Feb and March. 2. We do think there are some bugs in the document that are worth fixing. We don't think that those fixes are likely to cause significant change to the behavior of conforming implementations. Tony Hansen put RFC2821 into XML2RFC format, and John Klensin has a revision with fixes which he'll post here. Volunteers to review, please? 3. Some interop reporting is likely needed. We don't think this requires a huge effort. Here's one way to proceed: one step is for somebody to write an outline that lists the major interop areas or features to consider. The next step is for a couple implementors to fill in that outline their experience with their code-bases and talking to other implementations. Another way to try to proceed is to have implementors report what they *don't* implement or find doesn't work. We don't believe we have to document every MUST/MAY/ SHOULD but can look at least one level higher (less granular). Either way, it shouldn't require new testing, and we definitely want to try to keep this lightweight so that there's hope it actually gets done. Ned Freed and Alexey Melnikov have volunteered to do some work here -- Alexey has already begun -- and Dave Crocker outlined a "interop questionnaire" that would be lightweight. Ned, Alexey and Dave can you post your proposals or status to this list? Lisa --------------060704040600040307050804-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l08BfoZQ028537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l08Bfo8m028536; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l08Bfmhw028515 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@oryx.com) Received: from libertango.oryx.com (libertango.oryx.com [195.30.37.9]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82BA4AD44; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:41:47 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:43:23 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: sort and i18n Cc: Timo Sirainen References: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Happy new year. Timo Sirainen writes: > From i18n draft: > > Strings encoded using unknown character encodings should never match > when using the SEARCH command, and should sort together with invalid > input for the SORT and THREAD commands. > > First of all, I don't see either draft explaining how "invalid input" > is sorted. Does it mean it should be treated as an empty string? It goes at the end. > If I have a subject: > > Subject: hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world > > Should it be treated as empty string, "hello" or "hello world"? I > think "hello world" is what the user would want. That's certainly what I would want as a user, but neither RFC 1345 nor any of the later RFCs say that all unknown characters sets must be supersets of ASCII, so it's a somewhat unsafe assumption. I don't see justification for making that assumption that in a standards-track RFC. I thought about adding some language to the i18n document specifying that some codepoints may be assumed to be equal to those in ASCII even if the name of the character set is not known, but it was a lot of text for an odd case and I wasn't sure what codepoints that should be. (The common subset of US-ASCII and ISO-646-*?) As if today, your subject should be treated the same way as Subject: hello =?us-ascii?q?=88?= world and I think this is the same, too: Subject: hello =?iso-8859-8?q?=ff?= world Arnt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05KWbgK024112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:32:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05KWb0f024111; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:32:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mxout1.cac.washington.edu (mxout1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.134]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05KWatL024104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9] (may be forged)) by mxout1.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW06.09) with ESMTP id l05KWS1c002906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:32:28 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from pangtzu.panda.com (pangtzu.panda.com [206.124.149.117]) (authenticated authid=mrc) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW06.09) with ESMTP id l05KWGJi024125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:32:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:32:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin To: Dave Cridland cc: Timo Sirainen , ietf-imapext@imc.org Subject: Re: sort and i18n In-Reply-To: <2956.1168025998.315734@peirce.dave.cridland.net> Message-ID: References: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> <2956.1168025998.315734@peirce.dave.cridland.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 5.2.2.285561, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.0.283055, Antispam-Data: 2007.1.5.121933 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Dave Cridland wrote: > I could also deal with it matching "hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world" > too. +1 -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05JeJNW020285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05JeJvo020284; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from heisenberg.zen.co.uk (heisenberg.zen.co.uk [212.23.3.141]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05JeIQo020278 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dave@cridland.net) Received: from [217.155.137.60] (helo=turner.dave.cridland.net) by heisenberg.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H2uvJ-0005ve-CH; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:40:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by turner.dave.cridland.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA329498005; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from turner.dave.cridland.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turner.dave.cridland.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01396-01; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from peirce.dave.cridland.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:4bd0:2029:0:2e0:81ff:fe29:d16a]) by turner.dave.cridland.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6E3498004; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:40:23 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:39:54 +0000 Subject: Re: sort and i18n References: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <2956.1168025998.315734@peirce.dave.cridland.net> From: Dave Cridland To: Timo Sirainen Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at dave.cridland.net X-Originating-Heisenberg-IP: [217.155.137.60] Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: On Fri Jan 5 18:19:56 2007, Timo Sirainen wrote: > From i18n draft: > > Strings encoded using unknown character encodings should never > match > when using the SEARCH command, and should sort together with > invalid > input for the SORT and THREAD commands. > > First of all, I don't see either draft explaining how "invalid > input" is sorted. Does it mean it should be treated as an empty > string? > > By comparator rules, at the end, independently of the ordering. > If I have a subject: > > Subject: hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world > > Should it be treated as empty string, "hello" or "hello world"? I > think "hello world" is what the user would want. > > For sorting purposes, I'd expect it to be treated as invalid. For searching purposes, strictly speaking it's invalid and doesn't match anything, but I wouldn't bemaon an implementation where substring matches for "hello" and "world" matched. It definitely doesn't match "hello world", since there are no [known] spaces. I could also deal with it matching "hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world" too. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:dave@cridland.net - xmpp:dwd@jabber.org - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05IK5iR013239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l05IK5eO013238; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [213.157.71.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l05IK369013215 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:20:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tss@iki.fi) Received: from [192.168.10.217] (82-203-162-146.dsl.gohome.fi [82.203.162.146]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5EBF0C1C for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:21:26 +0200 (EET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5F2A8AD5-4D56-492D-885F-CCA88B9FA557@iki.fi> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-7-735435426" To: ietf-imapext@imc.org From: Timo Sirainen Subject: sort and i18n Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:19:56 +0200 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.2 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-ietf-imapext@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-7-735435426 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed From i18n draft: Strings encoded using unknown character encodings should never match when using the SEARCH command, and should sort together with invalid input for the SORT and THREAD commands. First of all, I don't see either draft explaining how "invalid input" is sorted. Does it mean it should be treated as an empty string? If I have a subject: Subject: hello =?unknown?q?pretty?= world Should it be treated as empty string, "hello" or "hello world"? I think "hello world" is what the user would want. --Apple-Mail-7-735435426 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFnpbMyUhSUUBViskRAg0QAJsG4tpLGb/NtFp8/1IPTmjenIV+gwCffrn9 0ByaIaTEZjYBCy67zVpEjIU= =8DKN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-7-735435426--